[Legacy Lessons] Top 6 Decks - Top 6 Recommendations - GP Lille

[Einherjer]

Hey guys!

Check out my article (http://www.mtgmintcard.com/articles/writers/philipp-sch%C3%B6negger/legacy-lessons-top-6-decks-top-6-recommendations) for GP Lille!

Let me know what you think and make sure to share it with your friends who are going to the GP if you think that it'd be helpful for them! :)

Greetings

[MD.Ghost]

Thanks for sharing! See you in Lille :smile:

[Einherjer]

Glad you enjoyed it! :)

See you there.

Greetings

[CorwinB]

Thanks for this article, Philipp. It was an interesting read, and I forwarded it to a couple of friends in need of a crash course about Legacy.

Very small nitpick, the foil cards images in the article don't look good, I don't know if there is any way they could be replaced by non-foil versions ?

Regards,

[Einherjer]

Thanks for this article, Philipp. It was an interesting read, and I forwarded it to a couple of friends in need of a crash course about Legacy.

Very small nitpick, the foil cards images in the article don't look good, I don't know if there is any way they could be replaced by non-foil versions ?

Regards,

Thank you very much, Sir! And thanks for sharing aswell! That's awesome!

I've forwarded this complaint to the editor already, thank you very much for pointing it out.

Greetings

[Tylert]

10 thousands lines on miracle, 4 lines for each other deck. We clearly see what you enjoy playing :)

PS: the article was nice although there was probably much more to say about the other decks... I found it to be a little lacking on content for other decks.

[Einherjer]

10 thousands lines on miracle, 4 lines for each other deck. We clearly see what you enjoy playing :)

PS: the article was nice although there was probably much more to say about the other decks... I found it to be a little lacking on content for other decks.

I tried to balance it, I really did, lol. :D

Which other decks are you referring to? I was already way over the maximum for the word count so I tried to cut it short but please tell me which decks you're talking about so I can see what you mean! Thanks for the feedback! :)

Greetings

[Tylert]

I tried to balance it, I really did, lol. :D

Which other decks are you referring to? I was already way over the maximum for the word count so I tried to cut it short but please tell me which decks you're talking about so I can see what you mean! Thanks for the feedback! :)

Greetings

Omni-tell was OK. Grixis soso.
Starting with team america, I felt there was less content.

Just remember that I liked the article overall :)

[Einherjer]

Omni-tell was OK. Grixis soso.
Starting with team america, I felt there was less content.

Just remember that I liked the article overall :)

Ah, these decks. Okay, thank you very much for the feedback, I'll try to distribute the content more evenly in the future, thanks.

:)

Greetings

[Higgs]

Minor rant not necessarily exclusive to this article (but had to do it somewhere and this article suffers from it a great deal!)

I hate articles with shit loads of card images which contribute nothing to the narrative (we all know Force of Will is a card and we all know what it looks like). This makes it incredibly hard to view at work.

/rant

Copy pasted into word now. Looks like an interesting read.

[Einherjer]

Minor rant not necessarily exclusive to this article (but had to do it somewhere and this article suffers from it a great deal!)

I hate articles with shit loads of card images which contribute nothing to the narrative (we all know Force of Will is a card and we all know what it looks like). This makes it incredibly hard to view at work.

/rant

Copy pasted into word now. Looks like an interesting read.

Hey,

thanks for the feedback.

I'm not sure I agree to be perfectly honest. While I understand that some of the strategy articles are for the hardcore players who do not care about 10000 words without any breaks, it's also an article for newcomers and people not quite familiar with Legacy. Not saying they need to read the cards (as they could just hover over the card itself) but it makes the article easier to read and better to digest which is important for an article that you don't 100% want to read but are moderately interested in. If this isn't your favorite article of the month and it's just plain text, chance has it you don't really read it at all. I mean, I could be wrong and all of you'd prefer it if there were no pictures all over the place, and to be perfectly honest: they are just there because we assume that it's a good thing. If it isn't, then by all means, let me know! :)

Thanks! :)

Greetings

[Higgs]

Having now read the article time for constructive feedback.

I love strategic metagame articles (not the metagame articles that whine about blue) and this one delivered! We used to have similar metagame breakdown articles in SCG (with some figures from their events) and having regular refreshers about the current metagame (from a strategic pov) is gold imo.

I agree with your assessment on Storm being a favourable choice and not only because I'm a Storm player myself :) I think Storm and RUG are always good choices for large events because they are proactive decks and they are possibly the longest lived, most consistent, most resilient and most punishing proactive decks in Legacy. Because Legacy is such a fucking wide open format, if you are proactive you can just forget about everything and just kill your opponent if you get paired against a strange rogue deck. Against Tier decks, if you know how to play Storm/RUG really well and have been playing your deck for long enough, you can simply outplay your opponents playing those Tier decks or at least go head to head with them.

I understand your position about Miracles but I find it quite interesting and wonder if it could be a bit biased because you are just good with the deck. Against a wide open field, I would dread playing Miracles because I'd hate to play against weird stuff like Scapewish NicFit (or BUG NicFit), MUD, Sylvan Plug or even Chalice Goblins. Miracles seem to be super tuned against a known metagame and I just feel like it would get crushed if you end up getting paired against all of the weird stuff in your first 4-5 rounds.

[Einherjer]

Having now read the article time for constructive feedback.

I love strategic metagame articles (not the metagame articles that whine about blue) and this one delivered! We used to have similar metagame breakdown articles in SCG (with some figures from their events) and having regular refreshers about the current metagame (from a strategic pov) is gold imo.

I agree with your assessment on Storm being a favourable choice and not only because I'm a Storm player myself :) I think Storm and RUG are always good choices for large events because they are proactive decks and they are possibly the longest lived, most consistent, most resilient and most punishing proactive decks in Legacy. Because Legacy is such a fucking wide open format, if you are proactive you can just forget about everything and just kill your opponent if you get paired against a strange rogue deck. Against Tier decks, if you know how to play Storm/RUG really well and have been playing your deck for long enough, you can simply outplay your opponents playing those Tier decks or at least go head to head with them.

I understand your position about Miracles but I find it quite interesting and wonder if it could be a bit biased because you are just good with the deck. Against a wide open field, I would dread playing Miracles because I'd hate to play against weird stuff like Scapewish NicFit (or BUG NicFit), MUD, Sylvan Plug or even Chalice Goblins. Miracles seem to be super tuned against a known metagame and I just feel like it would get crushed if you end up getting paired against all of the weird stuff in your first 4-5 rounds.


Thank you! :)

- I agree on Storm, and to some extent on RUG, though I believe 4c Delver to be a better deck right now.

- Hmm, one can never get rid of bias (and this time I didn't rank it #1 of the format, that's an improvement, isn't it? lol) but I am still under the impression that most random decks fold to either Counterbalance or Terminus. I mean, Storm and Omni also have terrific MUs against unknown decks, no doubt about it, but many Delver variants, mostly RUG, have an absolutely dreadful experience playing against things they didn't expect. But yeah, if you define random like you did, then Miracles isn't the best against it, that's totally correct. I, however, would classify other decks as random as well, which should all be amazing MUs, with the exception of the ones you mentioned! :)

Greetings

[bruizar]

Even though I am not well-vested in the meta game, I will predict that miracles will not top 8. The reason is pretty simple.

(1) takes too long to win, risk drawing games you should have won
(2) requires too many decisions -> mental effort for too many consecutive rounds in a room without fresh oxygen

Even though perhaps miracles SHOULD win, I predict that it won't.

[CorwinB]

Even though I am not well-vested in the meta game, I will predict that miracles will not top 8. The reason is pretty simple.

(1) takes too long to win, risk drawing games you should have won
(2) requires too many decisions -> mental effort for too many consecutive rounds in a room without fresh oxygen

Even though perhaps miracles SHOULD win, I predict that it won't.

But Miracles is able to perform well at GPs, including Top8 by Phillip at two different GPs last year and a strong showing at GP Kyoto this year. Your points are indeed true about lesser players (such as myself) who can't play quick enough to secure wins and fold under the pressure of playing several long matches involving a lot of decisions, but the top players have no such problem.

If Miracles doesn't perform well this time, I suspect it will be because of an hostile environment (metagame favoring its predators instead of its preys), or because the deck has too large a target on its head going into the tournament, not because of human failures.

[Einherjer]

Even though I am not well-vested in the meta game, I will predict that miracles will not top 8. The reason is pretty simple.

(1) takes too long to win, risk drawing games you should have won
(2) requires too many decisions -> mental effort for too many consecutive rounds in a room without fresh oxygen

Even though perhaps miracles SHOULD win, I predict that it won't.

I'm terribly sorry, Sir, but this prediction must a joke, is it not? I mean I personally Top8ed the last two GPs with Miracles. At the first one I didn't have Byes at all and at the second I had one Bye. And this year, again, I'll fight without Byes. But this didn't keep me from Top8ing in the past and certainly shouldn't keep me from doing it again. And even if I don't Top8, there are a couple of people that will have access to my list that are certainly capable of winning this whole tournament, like Tomas Vlcek, Angelo Cadei or Maxime Gilles. And that's just the people I know, and despite the fact that I know most Miracle pilots, there are always outstandingly talented people that are totally flying under the radar.

So, on what again do you base your predication on, because the points you give must be jokes?

Greetings

[bruizar]

My prediction is based on the anecdotal evidence that players will draw because they top / fetch too slowly and shuffle endlessly OR the miracles player is matched to an opponent that's just not really fast. I'm pretty sure I could draw against any miracles opponent just by pile shuffling 2 times every time you crack a fetch land; and that's not even slow play.

[Einherjer]

My prediction is based on the anecdotal evidence that players will draw because they top / fetch too slowly and shuffle endlessly OR the miracles player is matched to an opponent that's just not really fast. I'm pretty sure I could draw against any miracles opponent just by pile shuffling 2 times every time you crack a fetch land; and that's not even slow play.

Thank you for your comment, Sir.

Greetings

[Ingo]

Nice read, I very much enjoyed reading it.

Interesting you recommend lands, as I interpreted some phrases in your Reddit article that hadn't too much faith in the deck. I'd switch two words though in this sentence though: "But I’d recommend it to anyone who likes to play a Control deck that can switch its gears and become Combo ... as it's more a controldeck with a comboplan than viceversa.

I'll play the deck in Lille, and if we meet, would you be so kind to sign my Boseiju :)

[Einherjer]

Nice read, I very much enjoyed reading it.

Interesting you recommend lands, as I interpreted some phrases in your Reddit article that hadn't too much faith in the deck. I'd switch two words though in this sentence though: "But I’d recommend it to anyone who likes to play a Control deck that can switch its gears and become Combo ... as it's more a controldeck with a comboplan than viceversa.

I'll play the deck in Lille, and if we meet, would you be so kind to sign my Boseiju :)

Thank you very much, Sir!

People make mistakes. But only dumb ones make them twice! :) So yeah, my opinion on Lands has changed.

Sure, I'd gladly sign that Boseiju, though I'd prefer to sign Ponder/Tops, but why not! :)

See you in Lille!

Greetings

[Bahra]

Nice article and very on top of things with even the mention of the splashes in D&T which is a brand new thing.

[Einherjer]

Nice article and very on top of things with even the mention of the splashes in D&T which is a brand new thing.

Thank you very much, Marc!

See you next week. :)

Greetings

[bruizar]

Thank you for your comment, Sir.

Greetings

I do appreciate your article. It was very thorough and with that type of attention to details I expect you to do well.

[meffeo]

Sure, I'd gladly sign that Boseiju, though I'd prefer to sign Ponder/Tops, but why not! :)


I'm a little bit confused. Are you Ralph Horsley, Dan Scott, Mark Tedin or Michael Sutfin?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk.

[Einherjer]

I'm a little bit confused. Are you Ralph Horsley, Dan Scott, Mark Tedin or Michael Sutfin?



No, I'm not. My name is Philipp Schönegger, as seen in all the articles linked and posted by me.

Greetings

Edit: No, excuse me. Yes, I am all of them.

[GoblinZ]

HI, Philipp, do you consider Canadian Thresh is good deck for today‘s meta？As I see you mention stifle+wasteland many times and you imply the best delver deck is one with lightning bolt, also you suggest tarmogoyf to crush grixis's small creature.

I assume it has a decent match-up in general and can punish those decks with too greedy manabase.

[Einherjer]

HI, Philipp, do you consider Canadian Thresh is good deck for today‘s meta？As I see you mention stifle+wasteland many times and you imply the best delver deck is one with lightning bolt, also you suggest tarmogoyf to crush grixis's small creature.

I assume it has a decent match-up in general and can punish those decks with too greedy manabase.

Hey,

I'm sorry if I couldn't address this in due manner but I believe the 4-C Delver variants to be the best incarnation of Delver at the moment. It can be Grixis with Green for Decay or BUG with R or RUG with B, whatever, this has still to be worked out. (which is one of the fields that I want to invest in after the GP) - So I'd say that 4-C Delver with Goyf and Stifle is def. a very good place to be right now but I don't see Nimble Mongoose staying in the deck, to be honest. Dig Through Time is just too good not to play it. :)

Greetings

[PhyrexianLibrarian]

My prediction is based on the anecdotal evidence that players will draw because they top / fetch too slowly and shuffle endlessly OR the miracles player is matched to an opponent that's just not really fast. I'm pretty sure I could draw against any miracles opponent just by pile shuffling 2 times every time you crack a fetch land; and that's not even slow play.

If my opponent pile shuffled my deck every time I cracked a fetch, I would instantly calling a judge on them for stalling. So there's that.

Philipp, great article, but that Sulfur Elemental in the Miracles sideboard sticks out like a sore thumb. Do you think the Death & Taxes matchup is so bad that it requires such a specific hate card? In the past you've talked about wanting sideboard cards to be useful in varying matchups, and Sulfur Elemental seems like the exact opposite of that.

[Tylert]

Hey,

I'm sorry if I couldn't address this in due manner but I believe the 4-C Delver variants to be the best incarnation of Delver at the moment. It can be Grixis with Green for Decay or BUG with R or RUG with B, whatever, this has still to be worked out. (which is one of the fields that I want to invest in after the GP) - So I'd say that 4-C Delver with Goyf and Stifle is def. a very good place to be right now but I don't see Nimble Mongoose staying in the deck, to be honest. Dig Through Time is just too good not to play it. :)

Greetings

I'm allways happy when people play more fodder for D&T :) RUG is a good match up. 4c is an even better one :)

[Einherjer]

If my opponent pile shuffled my deck every time I cracked a fetch, I would instantly calling a judge on them for stalling. So there's that.

Philipp, great article, but that Sulfur Elemental in the Miracles sideboard sticks out like a sore thumb. Do you think the Death & Taxes matchup is so bad that it requires such a specific hate card? In the past you've talked about wanting sideboard cards to be useful in varying matchups, and Sulfur Elemental seems like the exact opposite of that.

Thank you very much!

Sulfur Elemental is actually way better than it seems. At first it deals with Death and Taxes, which isn't really a good MU if you cut down to 20 lands. Secondly, and most importantly, it deals with Mentor. But Mentor also deals with Mentor you might say? Well, only if you resolve him around the same time. Sulfur Elemental can be drawn at the last possible turn and still wipe you a whole army of tokens without being able to be countered. Additionally, if you don't know if your opponent brings Mentor or not, just bring Sulfur, it'll be a good card vs Jace/Balance in any way and is outstanding vs Mentor. Additionally it's an extra clock vs certain combo decks and can act as a creature to attack should you run low on time. Unless your deck has a strong Mentor plan (2+ Mentors and probably Cavern aswell) you should def. play Sulfur Elemental in Miracles for the time being. :)

Greetings

[GoblinZ]

Hey,

I'm sorry if I couldn't address this in due manner but I believe the 4-C Delver variants to be the best incarnation of Delver at the moment. It can be Grixis with Green for Decay or BUG with R or RUG with B, whatever, this has still to be worked out. (which is one of the fields that I want to invest in after the GP) - So I'd say that 4-C Delver with Goyf and Stifle is def. a very good place to be right now but I don't see Nimble Mongoose staying in the deck, to be honest. Dig Through Time is just too good not to play it. :)

Greetings

Thank u, but I don't know if the trading of consistency for more power is really the right call(I mean the manabase). Dig is for me too annoyed to play or play against:frown:.

[Einherjer]

Thank u, but I don't know if the trading of consistency for more power is really the right call(I mean the manabase). Dig is for me too annoyed to play or play against:frown:.

My pleasure! :)

Well, I haven't really seen a really good argument why Delver variants shouldn't incorporate that card. It's just too good, to be perfectly honest. And there is still straight Grixis with Dig, without losing any manabase consistencies.

Greetings

[Admiral_Arzar]

This was a good article and pretty comprehensive. I was a little surprised that there was no mention of MUD as a recommended deck - it's hard for me to think of a time in Legacy when that deck was better positioned.

[Einherjer]

This was a good article and pretty comprehensive. I was a little surprised that there was no mention of MUD as a recommended deck - it's hard for me to think of a time in Legacy when that deck was better positioned.

Thank you very much!

MUD is def. a very good choice right now but there are a couple of reasons I didn't recommend it:

1) I haven't had a decent amount of testing done with it. And I hardly claim anything without having either tested it myself or seen the testing results of people I trust. This wasn't the case.

2) Even if MUD had a good percentage versus the field it would still probably be inferior to Death and Taxes as they both fill the same role, but Death and Taxes does it more consistently. I mean, no deck in Legacy is better than MUDs best draws but I wouldn't want to play the less consistent variant of an archetype at a tournament. Death and Taxes just seems much more suited for it.

But do expect a highlight on MUD in the future as it's one of the decks that I plan on working on after GP Lille, that are Grixis Control, 4 C Delver and MUD. :)

Greetings

[Admiral_Arzar]

Thank you very much!

MUD is def. a very good choice right now but there are a couple of reasons I didn't recommend it:

1) I haven't had a decent amount of testing done with it. And I hardly claim anything without having either tested it myself or seen the testing results of people I trust. This wasn't the case.

2) Even if MUD had a good percentage versus the field it would still probably be inferior to Death and Taxes as they both fill the same role, but Death and Taxes does it more consistently. I mean, no deck in Legacy is better than MUDs best draws but I wouldn't want to play the less consistent variant of an archetype at a tournament. Death and Taxes just seems much more suited for it.

But do expect a highlight on MUD in the future as it's one of the decks that I plan on working on after GP Lille, that are Grixis Control, 4 C Delver and MUD. :)

Greetings

Oh ok, your reasoning makes sense. I look forward to that feature!

On Dnt (which I'm also a fan of), I would say they're better at attacking different archetypes. DnT is better against Delver while MUD is better against (non-Sneak) combo and Miracles. MUD's matchup against Delver is generally fine though, it's midrange piles-of-value like BUG that cause it issues. All of this makes me want to play it again, too bad there aren't any big Legacy events around here :(

[MGB]

Lands is secretly the best deck in Legacy right now.

[Cire]

Just curious - you mentioned EE/Academy Ruins as a form of battlefield suppression against grixis and recurring engine against stoneblade. Outside Lands, does any deck in legacy do this? I'm not as well versed in the myriad of legacy decks as I would like to be, so I am curious if this interaction pops up more than just occasionally in some lands builds. Thanks! Same goes for crucible and LFTL does any deck actively play these cards?

[Plague Sliver]

Excellent article and I look forward to seeing your finish next week.

One of the points you made is that it's better to run a deck with more consistency over the course of a large event. But here, you recommend a 4c delver deck instead of a more consistent 3c.

My question is: does the versatility of 4c coupled with DTT make up for the potential inconsistency in mana base, or do you think that color issues are mitigated with a blue shell?

I guess ultimately it's a case of risk and reward. I myself am very interested to dabble into a DTT delver shell, hence the question.

[Dice_Box]

Lands is secretly the best deck in Legacy right now.

With Omnishow running around, I can not totally agree with this, as much as I wish it were true. Lands is under represented for its power level but it can be inconsistent, it has issues against decks with large amounts of basics and it's deceptively difficult to Master. Right now it is strong, but it's not top dog.

[Einherjer]

Thanks!

Ruins+EE and Crucible+Wasteland are engines that can be run my Control decks like Stoneblade and Miracles, if they want to hedge against a certain MU.

I'm not sure a 4 color version with 4 Shaman + 3 Dig is a lot less consistent than a Delver variant that is three color. But I'll get into serious testing of this archetype after the GP. :)



Greetings

[Ellomdian]

But Miracles is able to perform well at GPs, including Top8 by Phillip at two different GPs last year and a strong showing at GP Kyoto this year.

Everyone wants to remember Kyoto as a coming out party for Omni. People seem to be repressing that the real story was the huge number of people playing Miracles at the top tables...


This was a good article and pretty comprehensive. I was a little surprised that there was no mention of Belcher as a recommended deck - it's hard for me to think of a time in Legacy when that deck was better positioned.

FTFY. Seriously though, MUD is another Variance deck, and you have to love the archetype to justify playing it competitively, pretty much regardless of the texture of the room. It has a lot of natural power, but the compromise is the number of games you lose because you Mulligan to oblivion.


With Omnishow running around, I can not totally agree with this, as much as I wish it were true. Lands is under represented for its power level but it can be inconsistent, it has issues against decks with large amounts of basics and it's deceptively difficult to Master. Right now it is strong, but it's not top dog.

God I hope we see a ton of Lands again. The best part of the SCG Legacy Open was the Lands Mirror match. They should get the commentary team drunk for that.

[Admiral_Arzar]

FTFY. Seriously though, MUD is another Variance deck, and you have to love the archetype to justify playing it competitively, pretty much regardless of the texture of the room. It has a lot of natural power, but the compromise is the number of games you lose because you Mulligan to oblivion.


The comparison of MUD to Belcher is moronic, and I would expect something a little more intellectual from a long-time Legacy player. The deck is well positioned because it crushes Miracles and combo despite its own issues (which are exaggerated - the modern lists are by far the most consistent Chalice deck I have played, and I've played them all). I would not recommend the deck if the meta was heavy on Shardless, Jund, and Team America (to name a few). Belcher can never be described as "well-positioned," at least as long as Force of Will is omnipresent.

[Lord_Mcdonalds]

God I hope we see a ton of Lands again. The best part of the SCG Legacy Open was the Lands Mirror match. They should get the commentary team drunk for that.

In my limited experience with the mirror (two matches) I wouldn't wish that on anyone

It's actually awful

[Dice_Box]

In my limited experience with the mirror (two matches) I wouldn't wish that on anyone

It's actually awful
Respectfully disagree. It's complex and engaging. It is even more fun if one person is Control lands and the other combo.

[Piceli89]

Good article, Philipp.

I am suprised that you did not mention Jund as a deck that may be well positioned in this metagame (perhaps you are implicitely biased towards considering blue decks- no blame). If the top dogs are:

- Omnitell;
- Miracle;
- Stoneblade/ "Gold Digger" or whatever it is called;
- Grixis Control;
- Death and Taxes (I doubt so personally but let's stick to it);
- ANT or whatever else,

then a well-tuned version of Jund with maindeck Pyroblasts, Sylvan Library and even Chains of Mephistopheles can give fits to blue decks as long as you can solve the critical blue spells (Dig/Show and Tell/TNN). Also, sideboard Choke.
Dark Confidant and Liliana should provide a source of disruption that is potentially troublesome for the control decks. Golgari Charm or similar can be brought in from the sideboard to deal with Young Pyro tokens in the Grixis matchups as well to regen against Bolt in fringe cases. And the list goes on. Last, you can fill the sideboard with a million of additional discard spells to fight the combo decks.

Any thoughts? I hardly play Legacy anymore but I think there may be some truth in this.

[Admiral_Arzar]

Good article, Philipp.

I am suprised that you did not mention Jund as a deck that may be well positioned in this metagame (perhaps you are implicitely biased towards considering blue decks- no blame). If the top dogs are:

- Omnitell;
- Miracle;
- Stoneblade/ "Gold Digger" or whatever it is called;
- Grixis Control;
- Death and Taxes (I doubt so personally but let's stick to it);
- ANT or whatever else,

then a well-tuned version of Jund with maindeck Pyroblasts, Sylvan Library and even Chains of Mephistopheles can give fits to blue decks as long as you can solve the critical blue spells (Dig/Show and Tell/TNN). Also, sideboard Choke.
Dark Confidant and Liliana should provide a source of disruption that is potentially troublesome for the control decks. Golgari Charm or similar can be brought in from the sideboard to deal with Young Pyro tokens in the Grixis matchups as well to regen against Bolt in fringe cases. And the list goes on. Last, you can fill the sideboard with a million of additional discard spells to fight the combo decks.

Any thoughts? I hardly play Legacy anymore but I think there may be some truth in this.

As someone who used to play Jund a LOT in Legacy, the deck has some issues nowadays. Issue number one is that Omnitell is just an abysmal matchup. High Tide was bad, Omni is awful. The second one is that all the blue decks are better than they were when I was playing Jund (first half of last year) because they have access to new toys like Dig through Time, Monastery Mentor, Gurmag Angler, and Tasigur. Jund doesn't really have anything new and shiny, so it's playing on a lower power level versus the blue decks than it was a year ago. Jund is capable of playing all the hate cards to beat most of the blue matchups, but you still have to draw those in your non-blue, cantrip-less deck, and you have to draw them before the blue deck pulls ahead and renders them meaningless.

[iamajellydonut]

Jund is capable of playing all the hate cards to beat most of the blue matchups, but you still have to draw those in your non-blue, cantrip-less deck, and you have to draw them before the blue deck pulls ahead and renders them meaningless.

Basically this. Also, it's worth noting that Jund's "hate" cards and Jund's "clock" cards are mutually exclusive, and this makes for a really challenging victory.

[Admiral_Arzar]

Basically this. Also, it's worth noting that Jund's "hate" cards and Jund's "clock" cards are mutually exclusive, and this makes for a really challenging victory.

I gave up on Jund for all of these reasons quite a while ago. It's all about DnT, Lands or MUD if you want to go nonblue now IMO.

[iamajellydonut]

I mean, all it would really take is one BG value-bear to make the deck viable again. But it's just grown stale in the modern day.

[ESG]

As someone who used to play Jund a LOT in Legacy, the deck has some issues nowadays. Issue number one is that Omnitell is just an abysmal matchup. High Tide was bad, Omni is awful. The second one is that all the blue decks are better than they were when I was playing Jund (first half of last year) because they have access to new toys like Dig through Time, Monastery Mentor, Gurmag Angler, and Tasigur. Jund doesn't really have anything new and shiny, so it's playing on a lower power level versus the blue decks than it was a year ago. Jund is capable of playing all the hate cards to beat most of the blue matchups, but you still have to draw those in your non-blue, cantrip-less deck, and you have to draw them before the blue deck pulls ahead and renders them meaningless.

Excellent comment, Admiral_Arzar. This is precisely why decks fall out of playability. New cards are printed and decks change, but some decks can't adapt to the new environment. It's why I would never foil out a deck and expect to play it forever. I think it also illustrates why Dig is overpowered. Nonblue decks like Jund can't splash UU, so the card buries them. The matchups that used to be positive are now even, if not outright unfavorable. At such a point, it doesn't make sense to play nonblue unless you're running just a bunch of main-deck hate cards, which are obviously a critical liability if you get paired against combo or a nonblue deck not running main-deck hate cards.

[Kl'rt]

Excellent comment, Admiral_Arzar. This is precisely why decks fall out of playability. New cards are printed and decks change, but some decks can't adapt to the new environment. It's why I would never foil out a deck and expect to play it forever. I think it also illustrates why Dig is overpowered. Nonblue decks like Jund can't splash UU, so the card buries them. The matchups that used to be positive are now even, if not outright unfavorable. At such a point, it doesn't make sense to play nonblue unless you're running just a bunch of main-deck hate cards, which are obviously a critical liability if you get paired against combo or a nonblue deck not running main-deck hate cards.

What about Aggro Loam? Prague Eternal was just taken down by Kronberger who played almost his exact list that he took down BoM with over a year ago. Seems his list has a lot of common elements with Jund.

[iamajellydonut]

What about Aggro Loam? Prague Eternal was just taken down by Kronberger who played almost his exact list that he took down BoM with over a year ago. Seems his list has a lot of common elements with Jund.

Completely different decks.