Molotov MuD

[porcupinetreeman]

Steamlined version of MUD. Old MUD is too slow and too random for most matchups. This deck rolls over Miracles, Grixis, and Combo. Hard matchups are D+T / Lands / Elves / Shardless. Most other match-ups are favorable. Goal is to slow them down as much as possible, then drop Ugin / Wurm / Sundering.

I love dropping uncounterable sundering titan or wurm. Even Ugin just ends games.

Decklist:

4 Metalworker
4 Grim Monolith

4 Chalice of the Void
4 Lodestone Golem
4 Trinisphere

4 Ratchet Bomb

4 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
4 Wurmcoil Engine
4 Sundering Titan

4 City of Traitors
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
4 Vesuva

SB:

4 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Steel Hellkite
4 Pithing Needle
3 Grafdigger's Cage
3 Thorn of Amethyst

[MGB]

So the main differences here between this list and traditional MUD lists is that you completely forgo the Kuldotha Forgemaster package for the 4 Ugin plan, which theoretically gives you more immediate impact when it hits the board because Forgemaster requires a turn to activate?

MUD traditionally has been a very inconsistent deck which has been its major downfall in tournaments. Does this list solve that problem somehow?

[porcupinetreeman]

So the main differences here between this list and traditional MUD lists is that you completely forgo the Kuldotha Forgemaster package for the 4 Ugin plan, which theoretically gives you more immediate impact when it hits the board because Forgemaster requires a turn to activate?

MUD traditionally has been a very inconsistent deck which has been its major downfall in tournaments. Does this list solve that problem somehow?

I play MUD a lot and realized all I ever want is either Sundering titan or Ugin. I think I've only lost maybe 3 games out of 50 when I resolved Ugin. Kuldotha is just too slow, and you have to sacrifice artifacts you want to keep on the board. The only cards I ever grabbed with Kuldotha were Sundering and Wurmcoil usually, It was very rare I would grab blightsteel or Emperion. Most of the time I was just hoping to topdeck Ugin.

[(nameless one)]

I play MUD a lot and realized all I ever want is either Sundering titan or Ugin. I think I've only lost maybe 3 games out of 50 when I resolved Ugin. Kuldotha is just too slow, and you have to sacrifice artifacts you want to keep on the board. The only cards I ever grabbed with Kuldotha were Sundering and Wurmcoil usually, It was very rare I would grab blightsteel or Emperion. Most of the time I was just hoping to topdeck Ugin.

So like traditional MUD?

[Admiral_Arzar]

I've also started to doubt the effectiveness of Forgemaster. It gets stuck in my hand a lot and I rarely want to activate it unless I'm already winning. Pretty much any other threat in the deck is preferable. I would like to see Thran Dynamo make a comeback to help cast all these 8-drops, if you untap with that card in play it's basically all the mana you'll ever need. I would also consider dropping 1 Ugin for a Karn Liberated, just to reduce the chance of drawing a bunch of Ugins and/or getting wrecked by Needle/Revoker.

EDIT: Dynamo also improves the Lands matchup as it makes it much more difficult for them to manascrew you. Lack of Wasteland in this list will certainly make that matchup hard though. For Elves, I would recommend replacing the sideboard Thorns with Spheres as Thorn does very little vs. Elves. Sphere slows them down significantly. Cursed Totem is another more narrow option.

[porcupinetreeman]

I've also started to doubt the effectiveness of Forgemaster. It gets stuck in my hand a lot and I rarely want to activate it unless I'm already winning. Pretty much any other threat in the deck is preferable. I would like to see Thran Dynamo make a comeback to help cast all these 8-drops, if you untap with that card in play it's basically all the mana you'll ever need. I would also consider dropping 1 Ugin for a Karn Liberated, just to reduce the chance of drawing a bunch of Ugins and/or getting wrecked by Needle/Revoker.

EDIT: Dynamo also improves the Lands matchup as it makes it much more difficult for them to manascrew you. Lack of Wasteland in this list will certainly make that matchup hard though. For Elves, I would recommend replacing the sideboard Thorns with Spheres as Thorn does very little vs. Elves. Sphere slows them down significantly. Cursed Totem is another more narrow option.

I did try 1 or 2 Thran Dynamo, but replaced them with ratchet bombs. The ratchet bombs can give you enough time to get a couple more lands. Dynamo just didn't work very well. I think the lands matchup is probably just unwinnable even with dynamo.

I think sticking to 4 ugin is necessary in the current meta, It destroys everything the opponent has. Needles and revokers aren't very common, and we run ratchet bombs to deal with that stuff. Could probably cut a wurm and add a karn, but i like the wurms.

Cursed totem seems like a good idea, doesn't get hit by chalice at 1. Was bad before with Forgemaster.

I also tried sphere in the SB instead of thorn, but a lot of time it cost me a full turn. Dropping early Lodestone and Metalworker is important.

[Admiral_Arzar]

I did try 1 or 2 Thran Dynamo, but replaced them with ratchet bombs. The ratchet bombs can give you enough time to get a couple more lands. Dynamo just didn't work very well. I think the lands matchup is probably just unwinnable even with dynamo.

I think sticking to 4 ugin is necessary in the current meta, It destroys everything the opponent has. Needles and revokers aren't very common, and we run ratchet bombs to deal with that stuff. Could probably cut a wurm and add a karn, but i like the wurms.

Cursed totem seems like a good idea, doesn't get hit by chalice at 1. Was bad before with Forgemaster.

I also tried sphere in the SB instead of thorn, but a lot of time it cost me a full turn. Dropping early Lodestone and Metalworker is important.

I've always been a fan of Ratchet Bombs, they are the card I start every MUD and Stax sideboard with. I'm not sure how I feel about them in the maindeck as I haven't tested that. I like Dynamo simply because it jumps you from that "early-game" amount of mana to "late-game" amount in a single card that doesn't die to Abrupt Decay. Playing Dynamo makes me want to play Voltaic Key too though (it's a nombo with Chalice, but I have played 4 Chalice 3 Key before with success). The issue with 4 Ugin for me is that my meta is infested with Death and Taxes, so Revokers and Needles are all over the place. That matchup is VERY unpleasant if you in any way fail to draw enough lands or otherwise assemble a manabase quickly. The one issue with Cursed Totem is that it shuts off Metalworker.

[porcupinetreeman]

I've always been a fan of Ratchet Bombs, they are the card I start every MUD and Stax sideboard with. I'm not sure how I feel about them in the maindeck as I haven't tested that. I like Dynamo simply because it jumps you from that "early-game" amount of mana to "late-game" amount in a single card that doesn't die to Abrupt Decay. Playing Dynamo makes me want to play Voltaic Key too though (it's a nombo with Chalice, but I have played 4 Chalice 3 Key before with success). The issue with 4 Ugin for me is that my meta is infested with Death and Taxes, so Revokers and Needles are all over the place. That matchup is VERY unpleasant if you in any way fail to draw enough lands or otherwise assemble a manabase quickly. The one issue with Cursed Totem is that it shuts off Metalworker.

I did originally tried thran dynamo, but it never seemed to speed me up at all; its also a bad topdeck. I then went with maindeck ratchet bombs and that gave me the extra speed to win a lot more games. Its good in at least 90+% of matchups. Vs miracles just leave it at 4 or zero, they can't even deal with it. I designed the deck to just beat the hell out of miracles.

Maybe try caltrops vs Death and Taxes.

[Admiral_Arzar]

I did originally tried thran dynamo, but it never seemed to speed me up at all; its also a bad topdeck. I then went with maindeck ratchet bombs and that gave me the extra speed to win a lot more games. Its good in at least 90+% of matchups. Vs miracles just leave it at 4 or zero, they can't even deal with it. I designed the deck to just beat the hell out of miracles.

Maybe try caltrops vs Death and Taxes.

The problem with DnT isn't even the creatures - it's Wasteland/Port backed up by Mangara and Flickerwisp. The creatures are shitty but the mana denial engine is hard to beat unless you actually draw a lot of mana.

[porcupinetreeman]

The problem with DnT isn't even the creatures - it's Wasteland/Port backed up by Mangara and Flickerwisp. The creatures are shitty but the mana denial engine is hard to beat unless you actually draw a lot of mana.

I would agree it's a hard matchup, like I said in the title. Best cards vs them are ratchet bombs and revokers, followed up by Ugin.

I've played a lot of delver matchups recently and have been winning around 70% of them. They might wasteland 1 or 2 lands , but I usually catch up on lands and land a bomb and win. I'm thinking of upping ratchet bombs to 4.

[porcupinetreeman]

http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/mtgo-standings/legacy-daily-2015-07-14

I've played in three dailies all going 3-1. I think it's a better version of MUD in the current meta.

I'm trying out Pithing Needle vs decks with wastelands.

[MGB]

http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/mtgo-standings/legacy-daily-2015-07-14

I've played in three dailies all going 3-1. I think it's a better version of MUD in the current meta.

I'm trying out Pithing Needle vs decks with wastelands.

Nice job. What have you lost to in the past three dailies? Has anything given you trouble consistently?

Take this deck to the next big Starcitygames Open if you feel that you've "cracked" the secret to MUD in this metagame. There's no substitute for real, large-scale Legacy tournaments and doing well in them with your tuned decklist.

[porcupinetreeman]

Nice job. What have you lost to in the past three dailies? Has anything given you trouble consistently?

Take this deck to the next big Starcitygames Open if you feel that you've "cracked" the secret to MUD in this metagame. There's no substitute for real, large-scale Legacy tournaments and doing well in them with your tuned decklist.

I lost to Lands , Grixis Control, Stax.

The Stax I misplayed horribly. Grixis was close, this matchup is all about chalice and topdecks. Lands is just tough.

Are there other cards to stop wasteland? I've tried Pithing Needle / Crucible / Thran Dynamo / Surgical / Leyline of the Void

[Dice_Box]

Lands is always going to be a hard match for you as we have a lot of ways to get the ball rolling. My thoughts would be to try and control the Graveyard if you are having issues with recurring Wasteland but to be honest, outside of Pithing you're not looking at a great sea of options once the card is online. It is just one of your toughest matches as you are likely one of our very best.

Edit:
Chalice on 2 is your friend is the loop is going, Chalice on 0 and 1 are good out of the gate.

[bruizar]

Off the wall suggestion:
If ratchet bomb is so good, why not load up on 4 of them and add powder kegs to the side board?

[keys]

I've won games with Forgemasters going the distance just swinging in for 3. You can play it safe and sacrifice in response to anything targeting it, rather than going balls to the wall. Greaves and Blightsteel just give you some free wins though.

That said, I like the consistency of this build. The ratchet bombs must help a lot at dealing with fast aggro and other random problems. Wurmcoil was always the best creature so going up to 4 makes sense as well.

[MGB]

Off the wall suggestion:
If ratchet bomb is so good, why not load up on 4 of them and add powder kegs to the side board?

I think I would actually do this:

MD:
-1 Trinisphere
+1 Ratchet Bomb

SB:
-1 Ratchet Bomb
+1 Trinisphere

Because Trinisphere is kind of bad in multiples, and it's not priority #1 against most decks. Whereas I feel that Ratchet Bomb is actually good in multiples, and you'll want them against more decks than Trinisphere in G1.

ALSO, I would do this:

SB:
-4 Thorn of Amethyst
+4 Sphere of Resistance

Sphere is generally better against decks like Elves, and the fact that Sphere taxes your creatures doesn't really matter nearly as much because you have the mana to pay for it.

[porcupinetreeman]

I think I would actually do this:

MD:
-1 Trinisphere
+1 Ratchet Bomb

SB:
-1 Ratchet Bomb
+1 Trinisphere

Because Trinisphere is kind of bad in multiples, and it's not priority #1 against most decks. Whereas I feel that Ratchet Bomb is actually good in multiples, and you'll want them against more decks than Trinisphere in G1.

ALSO, I would do this:

SB:
-4 Thorn of Amethyst
+4 Sphere of Resistance

Sphere is generally better against decks like Elves, and the fact that Sphere taxes your creatures doesn't really matter nearly as much because you have the mana to pay for it.

I think the 4th ratchet can probably go into the main deck somewhere. Not sure where yet.

I wouldn't go down to 3 Trinisphere in the current meta, years past I would agree that 3 is fine. It's very important in this deck to make sure those bombs get through. I would say every blue deck I play against counters Trinisphere, so that's one less counterspell for our bombs. Trinisphere is just that good.

I've tried both Thorn and Sphere. Thorn is just better in matchups like Omni-Tell, ANT, Dredge. Being able to cast Lodestone or Metalworker a turn earlier is important in those matchups.

[Havoc]

Some time ago I saw this thread and really liked the linear strategy for the mud list. After playing it for a while I found at times I needed something more out of nowhere to deal with decks like burn and elves when they can just outrace me. A friend of mine had a very impressive run with a deck similar to this early this year. So taking his list and yours I've been playing this to a couple of 4-0 and 3-1 in my area.

4 Lodestone Golem
4 Metalworker
4 Painter's Servant
3 Sundering Titan
4 Wurmcoil Engine
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Grim Monolith
3 Grindstone
1 Lightning Greaves
3 Trinisphere
4 Ancient Tomb
3 Cavern of Souls
4 City of Traitors
4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
3 Vesuva
2 Wasteland
3 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon

Sideboard
4 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Steel Hellkite
1 Batterskull
1 Grafdigger's Cage
4 Thorn of Amethyst
3 Tormod's Crypt

[porcupinetreeman]

Updated first post with list I have been playing. Maindeck is +1 ratchet bomb -1 lightning greaves. I've been having a lot of luck in meta with lots of miracles and Combo.

[ReAnimator]

Not sure if it does enough vs lands, but Tsabo's Web might be something worth testing. Needles are still probably the best. You could try the combo plan with Grindstones, or you could run some Staff of Dominations and try to get into a spot where you can just combo them out, but maybe metalworker is too fragile. Relic's over Graffdiggers might help too, but i don't know if that would be worse over all vs the other decks you want cage.

[porcupinetreeman]

Not sure if it does enough vs lands, but Tsabo's Web might be something worth testing. Needles are still probably the best. You could try the combo plan with Grindstones, or you could run some Staff of Dominations and try to get into a spot where you can just combo them out, but maybe metalworker is too fragile. Relic's over Graffdiggers might help too, but i don't know if that would be worse over all vs the other decks you want cage.

I have been having a lot of success with this deck lately.

I've been testing 4 Needles and they have been great vs Tempo, Infect, D+T and Loam Decks. Usually buys enough time to land something big.

Grafdigger is mostly there for elves and reanimate.