[BFZ]Battle for Zendikar spoilers thread

[hotlikedimes]

5 years ago, when prices first started to really boom and before they doubled down on the Reserved List and knocked out premium cards as an option, I was calling for them to do full art duals. I thought the Player Rewards would have been a great option. Or Judge promos. But regardless, people were mad about Mox Diamond being reprinted as a foil in FTV, so they nixed the idea of even doing premium reprints.

There's going to be 20 more Expedition lands in the next set. Obviously this opens up a lot of speculation and talk about what those 20 lands will be. 5 enemy manlands in the main set, all 10 manlands on the Expedition sheet? And then 10 Shadowmoor filter lands.

What's a little annoying is that we're going to be left with some sort of incomplete cycle. Whatever new lands are coming in Set 2 should obviously be done as Expeditions as well. If enemy BFZ duals are coming in Set 2, then there's 15 open Expedition slots. But if enemy manlands are coming in Set 2, then there's only 10 Expedition slots left, but the BFZ duals cycle is incomplete. They'd have to fill the extra 5 with either a mono-colored cycle (a strict one, or a smattering across blocks), colorless lands, or Future Sight duals (but if they do this and filters, there's an extra spot, because Graven Cairns). Maybe the extra spot opens up a colorless land like Mutavault or Cavern of Souls?

A lot of dumb speculation now, but the cool thing is that they're trying new things to increase supply without killing the market. Props to them on that.

The issue is they take a foil mythic slot, so the odds are something like 1:560 packs to pull one of these. I'm not sure how effectively it will increase supply to the average person. I feel like it'll be like guru lands, where super dedicated collectors and people with access to money will be able to get them.

There are 25 in this one, so are they doing all the fetches and shocks and the new duals to round out the 25? Then they could do enemy dual sets which would be 5, and then 5 man lands and 10 filter lands.

[GenghisTom]

I'd love to pull one. They're going to be very expensive. Low supply, high demand. Absolutely unique.

[Sylphnir]

Premium mythic. Kinda a new rarity. Dodges Standard.
Let's see how long it takes for them to use this for non-reprints.
This has some disgusting potential.

[Darkenslight]

Full art Shocks and fetches, I wanted them till I saw the boarder.

On the bright side, now you can get a REALLY expensive Russian foil Stomping Grounds for Beltcher.

They're English language only.

[Megadeus]

The issue is they take a foil mythic slot, so the odds are something like 1:560 packs to pull one of these. I'm not sure how effectively it will increase supply to the average person. I feel like it'll be like guru lands, where super dedicated collectors and people with access to money will be able to get them.

There are 25 in this one, so are they doing all the fetches and shocks and the new duals to round out the 25? Then they could do enemy dual sets which would be 5, and then 5 man lands and 10 filter lands.

They don't take up a foil mythic slot. For example you can theoretically crack one of these and a foil mythic in the same pack. They will be in the basic land slot in your pack
Theyare simply similar rarity to a mythic rare in foil

[bruizar]

I don't think anyone knows the rarity other than "slightly less rare than mythic foils". No one knows how slightly that is.

[DLifshitz]

Premium mythic. Kinda a new rarity. Dodges Standard.
Let's see how long it takes for them to use this for non-reprints.
This has some disgusting potential.

I wouldn't read that much into it... This is just BFZ's counterpart of Zendikar's 'Priceless Treasures.' A promotional campaign. Having said that, the existence of these inserts/promos makes it unlikely that enemy fetches will be reprinted elsewhere anytime soon.

[Barook]

http://mythicspoiler.com/bfz/cards/hallowedfountain.jpg

I get the water part, but where exactly is that a Plains? Especially with all the green stuff on the art? It looks like a UG land.

[guillemnicolau]

http://mythicspoiler.com/bfz/cards/hallowedfountain.jpg

I get the water part, but where exactly is that a Plains? Especially with all the green stuff on the art? It looks like a UG land.

I agree. I also think Steam Vents has an art too different from the first version:
http://i.imgur.com/9GFPIn4.png
The arts don't seem to fit the cards really well (I'm not saying that they aren't nice)

[Jamaican Zombie Legend]

If real (which I doubt, I can't imagine they'd put fetchlands and fetchable duals in Standard together), they'd still be awful in Modern. It means that, best case scenario, you can get it untapped on turn 3. Best case scenario. So, until turn 3, the shocklands are strictly better. Then you get into the fact that any deck running enough basic lands to reliably have this be untapped on turn 3 aren't likely to want to use this anyway due to, well, them presumably being mono-colored at that point.

I think they're interesting as 1-ofs in certain control builds, where having a land come into play untapped off a fetch can be relevant on turns 3+, but they don't want to make Burn/Aggro's job easier. It's almost certain they won't supplant the shocks, but they might complement them well in certain decks. The fact that they have basic land types makes them much more of a contender than most other dual-land cycles.

***

Not too enthused about the "Expeditions". I know I sound like the archetypal Magic player that would "complain if Wizard put $100 bills in packs", but it's hard not to see Wizards as taking advantage of the gambling aspect of pack-cracking more and more. First Mythics, then Modern Masters with the Goyf lottery, and now these. I don't think we'll be seeing Yu-Gi-Oh-style Super Ultra Secret Special Space Ghost Godzilla Rares that are mandatory for competitive constructed play, but it's another step towards Wizards selling scratch-off tickets that don't have an age restriction and preying upon people with low understanding of probability. Kinda shady, not too cool.

[Tylert]

I think they're interesting as 1-ofs in certain control builds, where having a land come into play untapped off a fetch can be relevant on turns 3+, but they don't want to make Burn/Aggro's job easier. It's almost certain they won't supplant the shocks, but they might complement them well in certain decks. The fact that they have basic land types makes them much more of a contender than most other dual-land cycles.

***

Not too enthused about the "Expeditions". I know I sound like the archetypal Magic player that would "complain if Wizard put $100 bills in packs", but it's hard not to see Wizards as taking advantage of the gambling aspect of pack-cracking more and more. First Mythics, then Modern Masters with the Goyf lottery, and now these. I don't think we'll be seeing Yu-Gi-Oh-style Super Ultra Secret Special Space Ghost Godzilla Rares that are mandatory for competitive constructed play, but it's another step towards Wizards selling scratch-off tickets that don't have an age restriction and preying upon people with low understanding of probability. Kinda shady, not too cool.

Just don't open packs.
I mean, why should we complain about this???
We are going to get extra 100$ bills in the packs for nothing. I won't open more packs than usual (3 a week for my draft plus the bonus packs when i win... ) and i'll be happy to get a chance to get these :)
Man, just stop complaining.
You'd better waste time upon lottery things :)

[Echelon]

The duals might be fine as a budget option in Nic Fit. I tend to fetch a basic Forest to cast my Dora the Explorer as often as I can. As soon as Dora dies that's all the basics one needs to have them enter the battlefield untapped.

[bruizar]

Battle of Wits approves of additional dual lands with basic land types

[Dice_Box]

They are a good card for EDH as well for people to fetch out and not having to spend 300 ish dollars on duals.

These things are going to hold value.

[jrsthethird]

The arts don't seem to fit the cards really well (I'm not saying that they aren't nice)

Shock lands all originated on Ravnica, a city plane, and the lands mostly represented manmade locations (a Fountain, Vents in what looks like a factory basement, a Shrine, a Garden, a Foundry, etc.). The new lands all seem to be situated on Zendikar, so they look more "natural." Not really sure what else to call the art theme, but that explains the difference.

[Kathal]

Battle of Wits approves of additional dual lands with basic land types

By far the most relevant adaptation of the new duals :laugh:

Greetings,
Kathal

[Cire]

From a user known as Jhawk94 on artofmtg.com who correctly spoiled Gideon on the same date:

Ob Nixilis 3BB
+1 draw a card, lose a life
-3 destroy target creature
-8 target opponent gets an emblem that say "when you draw a card lose 2 life"
Jhawk94 cannot remember if he starts at 4 or 5

[Barook]

From a user known as Jhawk94 on artofmtg.com who correctly spoiled Gideon on the same date:

Ob Nixilis 3BB
+1 draw a card, lose a life
-3 destroy target creature
-8 target opponent gets an emblem that say "when you draw a card lose 2 life"
Jhawk94 cannot remember if he starts at 4 or 5
5 mana is really step for Legacy. It also depends on how high his starting loyality turns out (and whether or not his first ability says "target player" for synergy with his nonrelevant ultimate).

His first two abilities are pretty strong. But what deck would want to run him at that cost? Nic Fit already has the 5 mana Garruk.

[iamajellydonut]

Just don't open packs.
I mean, why should we complain about this???

Because printing money shouldn't become an acceptable substitute for printing a set that doesn't suck. Battle for Zendikar already looks like it's a confirmed set of set of hairy old balls and we still have four week of spoilers to go. But, oh, no, I can't complain because "they reprinted Shocklands!" or "they reprinted Fetchlands!" or "they reprinted Shocklands and Fetchlands!".

Eat shit.

I want to play Standard. I want to play Draft. But hell if I'm willing to suffer through these miserable cop-outs.

[Ace/Homebrew]

Eat shit.
I think it's a bit early to start recommending exotic cuisine. My understanding is WotC has really figured out how to make a good limited environment the last few sets. If they learned the lessons from the original Zendikar, then this should also be a fun limited block.

Plus it looks like Allies might be good. You like allies right? :tongue:


I also think Tylert made a decent point. If you don't play the lottery in real life, don't feel obligated to play it in your hobby just because random packs contain uber rare money cards.

[HSCK]

Because printing money shouldn't become an acceptable substitute for printing a set that doesn't suck. Battle for Zendikar already looks like it's a confirmed set of set of hairy old balls and we still have four week of spoilers to go. But, oh, no, I can't complain because "they reprinted Shocklands!" or "they reprinted Fetchlands!" or "they reprinted Shocklands and Fetchlands!".

Eat shit.

I want to play Standard. I want to play Draft. But hell if I'm willing to suffer through these miserable cop-outs.

So when exactly have they made a good set?

[bruizar]

I want to play Standard. I want to play Draft. But hell if I'm willing to suffer through these miserable cop-outs.

People in Syria suffer. You need a reality check.

[Teveshszat]

Mornining

since people are cool and fast with saying set x is bad I want to ask what exactly are charactaristica of a good set?

I mean it can´t be that it has useful legacy cards in it cause to be honest Legacy is not the target format for Wotc and never was.
The Format they support with most sets is Standard, Modern and Limited. Yes sometimes a card is useful in Legacy but this is
nothing you should count on.

So when try to answer the question please resrtict youself and look for things which are relevant like playability in modern / standard
etc.

To be the first I don´t think the set is bad. Yes it is not the best set ever but it is not bad and big point for a plus are the new duels
which even can be played in Legacy.

[iamajellydonut]

I also think Tylert made a decent point. If you don't play the lottery in real life, don't feel obligated to play it in your hobby just because random packs contain uber rare money cards.

But I'm not upset that they're printing money in packs. I'm upset that they're using said money-infused packs to skimp on the overall quality of the set. I look forward to new sets. I look forward to seeing what new life is being breathed into the game. Only, for the past four years, I've remained disappointed. Origins had the potential to be a great bit of fresh air, but it seems to be immediately stifled by the hunk of garbage that is Battle for Zendikar.

[Jamaican Zombie Legend]

Just don't open packs.
I mean, why should we complain about this???
We are going to get extra 100$ bills in the packs for nothing. I won't open more packs than usual (3 a week for my draft plus the bonus packs when i win... ) and i'll be happy to get a chance to get these :)

It's mostly a "moral" thing, but there are some significant consequences.

Just seems shady to sell sets not based on them being fun to draft/play with but on the possibility of a "big score". Like I said, lottery sans government regulations. Packs have always been a gamble, but it seems like Wizards is really selling this aspect of them and making the payouts a lot bigger. Just doesn't sit well with me.

There's also the sharkiness and saltiness amplifying that happens when packs have $100 bills in them. Weekly drafts become a lot less friendly and social as grinder-types pour in to get value. It happened with Worldwake and Jace the Wallet-Sculptor. That's the only time I remember someone ever stealing from a (rare-back)draft, and Jace was only ~$60 at the time, if I recall (Bloodbraid keeping the big, blue dude down in Standard). I can't imagine the shadiness that might go on with ~$150 shocks/fetches, where there is serious incentive to pull some sleight of hand (especially easy given how the Zen basics they replace are probably going to be collected or kept by most folks rather than tossed in the middle of the table like typical draft basics).

Not a fun environment to play in.


I think it's a bit early to start recommending exotic cuisine. My understanding is WotC has really figured out how to make a good limited environment the last few sets.

I dunno. Tarkir block as a whole was really fun, yes, but the preceding blocks (RTR and Theros) were complete crap and Origins, while fun to draft, isn't so much fun to play because of Wizard's insistence that removal be dogshit for vague, unspecified reasons, leading to extremely, fast, swingy, beatdown-centric games.

[MGB]

It's mostly a "moral" thing, but there are some significant consequences.

Just seems shady to sell sets not based on them being fun to draft/play with but on the possibility of a "big score". Like I said, lottery sans government regulations. Packs have always been a gamble, but it seems like Wizards is really selling this aspect of them and making the payouts a lot bigger. Just doesn't sit well with me.

There's also the sharkiness and saltiness amplifying that happens when packs have $100 bills in them. Weekly drafts become a lot less friendly and social as grinder-types pour in to get value. It happened with Worldwake and Jace the Wallet-Sculptor. That's the only time I remember someone ever stealing from a (rare-back)draft, and Jace was only ~$60 at the time, if I recall (Bloodbraid keeping the big, blue dude down in Standard). I can't imagine the shadiness that might go on with ~$150 shocks/fetches, where there is serious incentive to pull some sleight of hand (especially easy given how the Zen basics they replace are probably going to be collected or kept by most folks rather than tossed in the middle of the table like typical draft basics).

Not a fun environment to play in.


"Grinder-types"? Can we get a taxonomic description of such a species? Does it usually feature a things like a "neckbeard"?

[Barook]

http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/avatars/78/667/635766362877208351.png

GSZ-able creature removal. Probably too expensive for Legacy, but who knows what Elves and Nic Fit could come up with.

[Teknique]

GSZ-able creature removal. Probably too expensive for Legacy, but who knows what Elves and Nic Fit could come up with.

I feel like you missed the Devoid part.

[Barook]

I feel like you missed the Devoid part.
Yeah, I was just looking at the manacost. Nevermind then.

[firebadmattgood]

GSZ cannot grab colorless cards.

edit, derp.

[Darkenslight]

Alleged Devoid enchantment:

:2: :b:
Enchantment
At the beginning of each opponent's upkeep, exile the top card fo that players library.
:1: , put a card from exile into its owner's graveyard: Put a 1/1 Eldrazi Spawn creature token onto the battlefield with, "Sac this: add :1: to your mana pool."

[Dice_Box]

This whole mechanic peeks my interest. Not sure what it could ever do in Legacy, but more then nothing I do feel.

[ESG]

But I'm not upset that they're printing money in packs. I'm upset that they're using said money-infused packs to skimp on the overall quality of the set. I look forward to new sets. I look forward to seeing what new life is being breathed into the game. Only, for the past four years, I've remained disappointed. Origins had the potential to be a great bit of fresh air, but it seems to be immediately stifled by the hunk of garbage that is Battle for Zendikar.

Seems a bit premature to deliver a verdict on the set when we've seen maybe 10 cards from it. Sorry you've been disappointed. Four years is a lot of sets. Can you recall two or three sets you enjoyed? Was Origins not one?

[Barook]

Alleged Devoid enchantment:

:2: :b:
Enchantment
At the beginning of each opponent's upkeep, exile the top card fo that players library.
:1: , put a card from exile into its owner's graveyard: Put a 1/1 Eldrazi Spawn creature token onto the battlefield with, "Sac this: add :1: to your mana pool."
Has the card been confirmed yet? I've only seen vague speculation on Salvation so far, with the CC being somewhere between :1::b: and :2::b:.

It certainly is a strong effect (a bit less so on 3 mana).

Rule question: Can you actually pay the activation cost with LotV/RiP in play? Technically, the cards can never hit the GY due to replacement effects.

Otherwise, it needs to combo with Planar Void.

Given the current exile shenanigans with opposing Delve spells and DRS, I don't think it's going to lack fodder. Being able to ramp and recycle tokens (sac for mana, make another token) is very powerful. As long as you can utilize the colorless mana, there's no drawback in making more tokens.

I'd definitely keep an eye on the card.

[jrsthethird]

Given the current exile shenanigans with opposing Delve spells and DRS, I don't think it's going to lack fodder. Being able to ramp and recycle tokens (sac for mana, make another token) is very powerful. As long as you can utilize the colorless mana, there's no drawback in making more tokens.

I'd definitely keep an eye on the card.

Also that wording lets you choose cards you have exiled yourself. So the cards from exile can fuel your own Delve spells.

:1:, return card from exile to graveyard, make a Scion. Sac Scion for :1:, exile that card to pay :1: for Delve. You can recycle cards if you don't have enough in the GY to start with.

[Mammutti]

If the card is real it is going to be very interesting. Pay 1, bring a card back to the gy, make a Scion. Sac scion add 1, bring a card back, add a Scion... For 1 colorless mana you get to pull everything back from exile. So Delve becomes even more broken. Make blockers for ages and reuse Deathrite every turn. Cabal Therapy as many times as you want for each colorless mana. I haven't even looked into cards that trigger when a creature enters the battlefield.

[Echelon]

It would be a nice toy for Nic Fit. Therapy your opponents' hand away every turn and keep dropping Tasigurs/Gurmag Anglers/perhaps other delve-stuff.

Also allows you to mix Nimble Mongoose/Tarmogoyf with delve stuff. Or to run 4 DTT. Or both.

[bruizar]

If the card is real it is going to be very interesting. Pay 1, bring a card back to the gy, make a Scion. Sac scion add 1, bring a card back, add a Scion... For 1 colorless mana you get to pull everything back from exile. So Delve becomes even more broken. Make blockers for ages and reuse Deathrite every turn. Cabal Therapy as many times as you want for each colorless mana. I haven't even looked into cards that trigger when a creature enters the battlefield.

:/!

This could even be a sideboard card for dredge. Stinkweed Imps get hardcast all the time. Yawgmoth's Will / Past in Flames + this is infinite mana + infinite storm + a bunch of 1/1 creatures though probably win more.

[spirit of the wretch]

It works neither with Papst in Flames nor with Yawgmoth's Will...

[MD.Ghost]

I hope it get 1B as a legacy toy, i can see it in Walking Dead, it contains Deathrite, Flashback Spells (Therapy, Looting, lingering) and with Bombardment and Feeder Sac Engines for Tokens etc.

But i think we'll only see it with 2B which can be to slow (or get dazed, pierce for ever) ...

[bruizar]

It works neither with Papst in Flames nor with Yawgmoth's Will...

I've been on a RTFC streak lately ^_^ Realized it later.

[TsumiBand]

New Devoid enchantment + Haunting Echoes = SO MUCH FOOD

Too bad Haunting Echoes was never a thing in Legacy :(

[bruizar]

Not to turn this into the B+R thread but, if WOTC knew they were printing this card that is obviously synergetic with the delve mechanic, it may spell the end of DTT.

[Quasim0ff]

Not to turn this into the B+R thread but, if WOTC knew they were printing this card that is obviously synergetic with the delve mechanic, it may spell the end of DTT.

No it wouldn't. WHY would people play this card, just because they are playing DTT? It's not like people are struggling to fuel DTT w/o this.

[Whitefaces]

Pretty sure you'll only be able to return cards to your opponents yards.

[lyracian]

Pretty sure you'll only be able to return cards to your opponents yards.
I expect the same; could still be quite powerful when many decks are using Deathrite and Dig.

[bruizar]

Its a dangerous mechanic though. Exile is one of the few zones that is (almost) untouchable. The graveyard is a resource and exiling is the way to balance that resource. Once you turn exile cards back into graveyard cards and get value out of doing it, I don't know what will happen. I can't predict its effect it can go either way.

[Barook]

Not to turn this into the B+R thread but, if WOTC knew they were printing this card that is obviously synergetic with the delve mechanic, it may spell the end of DTT.
What?

Darkenslight spoiled the supposed card completely wrong:

Cost (either :1::b: or :2::b:)
Enchantment
Devoid
At the beginning of each opponent's upkeep, exile the top card of that player's library.
:1:, put a card from exile an opponent owns into its owners graveyard: Put a 1/1 Eldrazi scion token onto the battlefield with "Sacrifice this creature: Add :1: to your mana pool."

You can't exile your own cards to abuse it. It's actually a pseudo-hoser for opposing Delve cards.

[Zombie]

You can't exile your own cards to abuse it. It's actually a pseudo-hoser for opposing Delve cards.

Huh? That just puts delved cards back into the GY so they can be Delve food again. The only thing it hoses is Tasigur.

[rufus]

EDIT: The rumor got updated. None of this is any good any more...


Also that wording lets you choose cards you have exiled yourself. So the cards from exile can fuel your own Delve spells.

:1:, return card from exile to graveyard, make a Scion. Sac Scion for :1:, exile that card to pay :1: for Delve. You can recycle cards if you don't have enough in the GY to start with.

Delve is cute, but there's a lot of potential with flashback or cards like Ill-Gotten Gains that self-exile to prevent looping or other abuse. There's a decent number of cards like that Woodland Guidance probably requires too many lands, but there might be some kind of loop with All Sun's Dawn.

It's probably not worth the effort by itself, but you could also use the ability to 'permanize' removal like Oblivion Ring.

I wonder if there's any good combos with Bosium Strip.

[Barook]

Huh? That just puts delved cards back into the GY so they can be Delve food again. The only thing it hoses is Tasigur.
Depends - they get Delve food back, you would get shitloads of tokens tha can ramp out of the ass, if necessary. It's a trade-off.

And I still wonder how it interacts with Leyline of the Void/Rest in Peace, which might be the most important interaction, assuming it does even work.

[MGB]

This card violates fundamental rules of Magic in that it uses the exile zone as a resource. MaRo and others on the design team have repeatedly expressed how hesitant they would be to begin using the exile zone as a resource because at that point, there is no other zone to access beyond it. Once things go to exile, they are to be treated as "removed from game" and to keep them in the game with such easy access by players basically just turns Exile into another Graveyard and destroys the purpose of having the separate exile zone demarcation in the first place.

I'm deeply troubled by this card if it is a real spoiler. It's a sign that they're running out of design space and are beginning to cannibalize the fundamental aspects of the game.

[iamajellydonut]

And I still wonder how it interacts with Leyline of the Void/Rest in Peace, which might be the most important interaction, assuming it does even work.

Just as Millikin still works through Rest in Peace, this should also continue to function so long as the wording doesn't get wonky upon official spoiling.

Just because the cards immediately get exiled doesn't mean there's not still a graveyard to refer to. You can still target said empty graveyard with a Tormod's Crypt and the like.



I'm deeply troubled by this card if it is a real spoiler.

Agreed with the general sentiment. I feel like they're tampering with something sacred. My hope is that it's bound to this single block.

[rufus]

...

Rule question: Can you actually pay the activation cost with LotV/RiP in play? Technically, the cards can never hit the GY due to replacement effects.

Otherwise, it needs to combo with Planar Void.



Costs can be replaced. It's like the Void Maw + Yawgmoth's Will combo.

You'd need something with "can't" analogous to Maralen of the Mornsong to prevent activation.

[Barook]

Just as Millikin still works through Rest in Peace, this should also continue to function so long as the wording doesn't get wonky upon official spoiling.
In that case the card is fucking fantastic. Now let's see it turns out to be 2 mana (something I hope not to curse later on).

Maybe somebody comes up with a deck that runs LotV/RiP + Helm combo + this as back-up? E-Tutor could grab any of the combo pieces. The tokens also ramp into Helm if you're short on mana for whatever reason.


This card violates fundamental rules of Magic in that it uses the exile zone as a resource. MaRo and others on the design team have repeatedly expressed how hesitant they would be to begin using the exile zone as a resource because at that point, there is no other zone to access beyond it. Once things go to exile, they are to be treated as "removed from game" and to keep them in the game with such easy access by players basically just turns Exile into another Graveyard and destroys the purpose of having the separate exile zone demarcation in the first place.

I'm deeply troubled by this card if it is a real spoiler. It's a sign that they're running out of design space and are beginning to cannibalize the fundamental aspects of the game.
Maro already answered that in his blog after people started bitching about it.

They were very hesitant to do it and only limited it to your opponent's exile zone since it's so much harder to abuse than your own exile zone.

[iamajellydonut]

Maybe somebody comes up with a deck that runs LotV/RiP + Helm combo + this as back-up? E-Tutor could grab any of the combo pieces. The tokens also ramp into Helm if you're short on mana for whatever reason.

This was my first thought. Totally switching decks if it happens.

[Darkenslight]

What?

Darkenslight spoiled the supposed card completely wrong:

Cost (either :1::b: or :2::b:)
Enchantment
Devoid
At the beginning of each opponent's upkeep, exile the top card of that player's library.
:1:, put a card from exile an opponent owns into its owners graveyard: Put a 1/1 Eldrazi scion token onto the battlefield with "Sacrifice this creature: Add :1: to your mana pool."

You can't exile your own cards to abuse it. It's actually a pseudo-hoser for opposing Delve cards.

...my bad. :mad: I MTFC, instead of RTFC. Apologies.

[rufus]

In that case the card is fucking fantastic. Now let's see it turns out to be 2 mana (something I hope not to curse later on).

It doesn't seem so compelling to me: Suppose the activation cost was just 1 mana - would it be legacy playable then? I'm not sure it would be, and returning cards to the opponent's graveyard is almost exclusively downside.

[iamajellydonut]

It doesn't seem so compelling to me: Suppose the activation cost was just 1 mana - would it be legacy playable then? I'm not sure it would be, and returning cards to the opponent's graveyard is almost exclusively downside.

The latter part of his post is what matters. Instead of having Helm and Leyline and Thopter Foundry and Sword of the Meek, you have Helm and Leyline and RIP and BFZ Enchantment. Much more tidy. Also rather sexy.

[Vicar in a tutu]

Guys, what the hell is this? Something resembling excitement on The Source? Not to be a killjoy, but you KNOW it won't be printed at an aggressive cost. Most likely it will be the mana cost you're hoping for + :2:.

[iamajellydonut]

Guys, what the hell is this? Something resembling excitement on The Source? Not to be a killjoy, but you KNOW it won't be printed at an aggressive cost. Most likely it will be the mana cost you're hoping for + :2:.

shh...

baby, shh...

[Barook]

The latter part of his post is what matters. Instead of having Helm and Leyline and Thopter Foundry and Sword of the Meek, you have Helm and Leyline and RIP and BFZ Enchantment. Much more tidy. Also rather sexy.
It's also notable that the tokens are basically impossible to get rid off once you have the combo.

Nice Terminus/Golgari Charm/Zealous Persecution/whatever, sac everything for mana, let your sweeper effect resolve, get new tokens.


Guys, what the hell is this? Something resembling excitement on The Source? Not to be a killjoy, but you KNOW it won't be printed at an aggressive cost. Most likely it will be the mana cost you're hoping for + :2:.
I also have a hard time believing they would allow token recycling that easily.

But hey, a man can dream.

[bruizar]

Just a mention of Dryad Militant, Withered Wretch and Scavenging Ooze with this thing. Too bad Ooze requires :g:, otherwise you could get infinite life and a lethal Ooze with it.

[Barook]

Just a mention of Dryad Militant, Withered Wretch and Scavenging Ooze with this thing. Too bad Ooze requires :g:, otherwise you could get infinite life and a lethal Ooze with it.
You couldn't go infinite with Ooze even if it costed :1: to activate, since the mana the tokens produce go directly into making new tokens instead of fueling the GY removal shenanigans.

[Cire]

Wait. . . what's the combo? Seems like it just gives you infinite ETB effects if you have something like essence warden out. . . . .

[PirateKing]

Wait. . . what's the combo? Seems like it just gives you infinite ETB effects if you have something like essence warden out. . . . .

You need cards in your opponents Exile, so no, not infinite.

[Zombie]

Wait. . . what's the combo? Seems like it just gives you infinite ETB effects if you have something like essence warden out. . . . .

Can also be used as a Thopter Foundry style token generator that gives you shittons of ramp. Bonus points because half the combo pieces are live, severe hate cards.

[Richard Cheese]

This card violates fundamental rules of Magic in that it uses the exile zone as a resource. MaRo and others on the design team have repeatedly expressed how hesitant they would be to begin using the exile zone as a resource because at that point, there is no other zone to access beyond it. Once things go to exile, they are to be treated as "removed from game" and to keep them in the game with such easy access by players basically just turns Exile into another Graveyard and destroys the purpose of having the separate exile zone demarcation in the first place.

I'm deeply troubled by this card if it is a real spoiler. It's a sign that they're running out of design space and are beginning to cannibalize the fundamental aspects of the game.

This is just a natural consequence of turning "removed from the game" into another zone...within the game. At this point Phased Out is the closest we get to actually RFG'd. Also don't forget that Pull from Eternity and Misthollow Griffin are already a thing, and abilities like Suspend and Cascade really just treat exile as another zone.


Agreed with the general sentiment. I feel like they're tampering with something sacred. My hope is that it's bound to this single block.

Yeah next thing you know they'll be printing shit on the backs of the cards and giving Blue hyper-aggressive creatures.

[Kathal]

That thing, Rest in Peace (or Leyline of the Void) and Purphoros, God of the Forge = dead

Although, this only works, if it really costs only 1 to activate.

Greetings,
Kathal

[MGB]

In that case the card is fucking fantastic. Now let's see it turns out to be 2 mana (something I hope not to curse later on).

Maybe somebody comes up with a deck that runs LotV/RiP + Helm combo + this as back-up? E-Tutor could grab any of the combo pieces. The tokens also ramp into Helm if you're short on mana for whatever reason.


Maro already answered that in his blog after people started bitching about it.

They were very hesitant to do it and only limited it to your opponent's exile zone since it's so much harder to abuse than your own exile zone.

It still sets a dangerous precedent. Now Exile is just another Graveyard? There is no finality to exiling things anymore. This opens the door for future cards which use Exile like another hand just like graveyard usage opened the door for Dredge to basically turn their entire graveyard into their hand.

[HdH_Cthulhu]

Cant wait to use this with doubling season in EDH. Its even better with multiple opponents!

[Cire]

You need cards in your opponents Exile, so no, not infinite.

Infinite with LOTV, RiP, or Dryad I mean

[GenghisTom]

That thing, Rest in Peace (or Leyline of the Void) and Purphoros, God of the Forge = dead

Although, this only works, if it really costs only 1 to activate.

Greetings,
Kathal

Why not just use Impact Tremors instead of Purphoros

[PirateKing]

Infinite with LOTV, RiP, or Dryad I mean

Right but again, then it's limited to how much your opponents are willing to fill the (not)graveyard. Decks like D&T and Elves won't give a shit, pump out permanents and make you dead. I mean, yeah assuming everyone is always playing the blue shell forever, but this isn't a closed loop, it demands interaction before you can accomplish anything.

[Richard Cheese]

It still sets a dangerous precedent. Now Exile is just another Graveyard? There is no finality to exiling things anymore. This opens the door for future cards which use Exile like another hand just like graveyard usage opened the door for Dredge to basically turn their entire graveyard into their hand.

I don't disagree, just saying it's not exactly a new precedent. If anything, Pull From Eternity sets a more dangerous precedent because you can grab your own exiled cards with it. I agree that it's a dangerous road to go down though, because if exile can be abused, you have to have some way to get things out of it...but there's no double-exile, so you end up with some kludge-y solution like putting them on the bottom of the library or shuffling in or you go back to "removed from game" and exile ends up as some goofy cross between hand and graveyard, which I guess it already is. For instance, if you cast Bloodbraid and cascade through 3 lands into Goyf, could I use this enchantment to put all those lands in your yard while Goyf is on the stack?

Really they've been digging this hole since the earliest expansion sets though. Their insistence on constantly adding mechanics to the game means they're constantly trying to bend the rules, while simultaneously leaving a lot of good design space unused.

[rufus]

It's also notable that the tokens are basically impossible to get rid off once you have the combo.

... bleh, I totally missed that part. It makes it a whole lot better.



Why not just use Impact Tremors instead of Purphoros

Or Bitter Ordeal which is slower, but can do all kinds of stuff. 3-card combos are bad, so maybe building a resilient horde is a better game plan.

[Cire]

Right but again, then it's limited to how much your opponents are willing to fill the (not)graveyard. Decks like D&T and Elves won't give a shit, pump out permanents and make you dead. I mean, yeah assuming everyone is always playing the blue shell forever, but this isn't a closed loop, it demands interaction before you can accomplish anything.

I agree - but that is still a combo :eyebrow: especially since the interaction required is basic protection. . .

Granted - its a 4 card combo at best:

1) Interaction (Thoughtseize, STP)
2) Graveyard "Lock" (LOTV, RiP, or even Dryad)
3) BFZ enchantment
4) ETB effect

Put in Helm and Enlightened tutor, maybe even jam in the Cantrip Cartel :cool:, and you have yourself a quirky fun deck.

[bruizar]

Once exile becomes a ubiquitous resource then perhaps we need this type of hate:

Crypt of Crypts
Colorless - 0
Put all cards in target player's exile into that player's sideboard.

"Tormod really wanted it gone this time."

In all seriousness, I think this mechanic is specific to the Eldrazi so I hope this is just a block thing.

[Cire]

Once exile becomes a ubiquitous resource then perhaps we need this type of hate:

Crypt of Crypts
Colorless - 0
Put all cards in target player's exile into that player's sideboard.

"Tormod really wanted it gone this time."

In all seriousness, I think this mechanic is specific to the Eldrazi so I hope this is just a block thing.

And then next block you'll have cards like:

~ 1R
Creature - Human Whatever Uncommon
Whenever ~ deals damage to an opponent, you may Wish (When you wish, you may choose a card you own from outside the game and put it into on top of your library)
2/1

:rolleyes:

[Barook]

I wonder what the rest of such a deck would look like: StP? Thoughtseize? E-Tutor? More discard? Stuff like Ensnaring Bridge?


It still sets a dangerous precedent. Now Exile is just another Graveyard? There is no finality to exiling things anymore. This opens the door for future cards which use Exile like another hand just like graveyard usage opened the door for Dredge to basically turn their entire graveyard into their hand.
That's whining on a high level. I would be more worried about

a) the set being overall shit because Zendikar is a popular setting and they have their treasure cards, leading to record sells without them even trying (see: later sets of RtR block) and
b) them printing broken blue shit again because blue underperformed the last year of Standard.

I don't mind the way they handled the mechanic. Still better than "Kicker in disguise"-mechanic #7568.

[theillest]

And then next block you'll have cards like:

~ 1U
Creature - Human Whatever Uncommon
Whenever ~ deals damage to an opponent, you may Wish (When you wish, you may choose a card you own from outside the game and put it into on top of your library)
2/1

:rolleyes:
Fixed

[iamajellydonut]

Fixed

But you didn't change anything. So confused. D:

edit: Oh.

[Richard Cheese]

But you didn't change anything. So confused. D:

Fixed the casting cost. We all know Blue has traditionally been the color of retrieving cards from outside the game.

Also it should probably have hexproof.

And be a 3/2.

[Quasim0ff]

Fixed the casting cost. We all know Blue has traditionally been the color of retrieving cards from outside the game.

Also it should probably have hexproof.

And be a 3/2.

And flash.

Also, that's not technically true. Red had Burning Wish, when blue had Cunning Wish.

[bruizar]

And flash.

Also, that's not technically true. Red had Burning Wish, when blue had Cunning Wish.

White had Golden Wish, Green had Living Wish.... It was a cycle. We all know Ring of Ma'Ruff should have been blue.

[rufus]

...
4) ETB effect
...

There's also Ashnod's Altar and death triggers like Blood Artist. It's still probably bad.

[Finn]

Interestingly, you end up with a mana battery type of effect while you are acquiring parts. In addition to making you very hard to even hit with ground pounders, you can arrange the deck to cast bigger spells. Once infinite, you only need 1. Feel free to cash the others in for mana at will. This card seems to give such powerful control of the game in a variety of ways that I can't believe it works as spoiled. Even at 4 to cast it seems absurd.

What this card needs now is a way to get to enough mana to get it going quickly. What we need is a mana producer in black. It should be a card that can also conveniently exile shit from your opponent's graveyard. And it needs to be generally powerful.

[firebadmattgood]

For instance, if you cast Bloodbraid and cascade through 3 lands into Goyf, could I use this enchantment to put all those lands in your yard while Goyf is on the stack?

Uh, priority is a clearly-defined part of magic and using the exile zone as a resource does not affect this.

[Kathal]

Why not just use Impact Tremors instead of Purphoros

Because I have a foil one, and he looks awesome :P

Greetings,
Kathal

[Vicar in a tutu]

Alleged Devoid enchantment:

:2: :b:
Enchantment
At the beginning of each opponent's upkeep, exile the top card fo that players library.
:1: , put a card from exile into its owner's graveyard: Put a 1/1 Eldrazi Spawn creature token onto the battlefield with, "Sac this: add :1: to your mana pool."
Where is this enchantment "alleged" or hinted at? Source?

[bruizar]

Where is this enchantment "alleged" or hinted at? Source?

thread @ salvation

[TsumiBand]

Interestingly, you end up with a mana battery type of effect while you are acquiring parts. In addition to making you very hard to even hit with ground pounders, you can arrange the deck to cast bigger spells. Once infinite, you only need 1. Feel free to cash the others in for mana at will. This card seems to give such powerful control of the game in a variety of ways that I can't believe it works as spoiled. Even at 4 to cast it seems absurd.

What this card needs now is a way to get to enough mana to get it going quickly. What we need is a mana producer in black. It should be a card that can also conveniently exile shit from your opponent's graveyard. And it needs to be generally powerful.

Deathrite Shaman?

[Cire]

I wonder what the rest of such a deck would look like: StP? Thoughtseize? E-Tutor? More discard?

Off the bat. . . . (Hint, it is not good)

4 Death Rite Shaman
3 Blood Artist

4 Thoughtseize
4 Swords to Plowshare
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Impact Tremors
4 Enlightened tutor
4 Leyline of the Void
4 Dark Ritual
3 BFZ enchantment
3 Rest in Peace
3 Helm of Obedience

17 Lands

[joven]

It is good that WotC try to print Fetches and Shocklands, but omg super extremely rare mega full art premium foil mythic rares aren't the answer. They will just cost >100 EUR and will never be seen again.

[Echelon]

Concerning that silly enchantment - how about combining it with Astral Slide? Cycle stuff (Street Wraith, for all I care), exile your opponents' creatures and poof, they're stuck in the graveyard.

Might open up possibilities for some weird ass control combo deck. Cycling would assure you'd assemble your lock/combo pieces and, as Cire suggested, Blood Artist could be part of the win condition. Astral slide would allow you to protect it from any removal, so that's nice. On the other hand, 3 CMC enchantments might be too slow for legacy. Hmm, we'll just have to wait and see.

[Tylert]

swamp + leyline of the void + 2x dark ritual + altar of the brood + new enchant = T1 win in mono black :)

T0: play leyline
T1: swamp (B), play dark ritual (BBB), play altar of the brood (BB), play dark ritual (BBBB), play the enchant (B) --> one card of the opponent is exiled, use the mana to put a 1/1 into play and mill one card from the opponent deck, sac the token (1), put into the graveyard one card to generate another token and mill another card... etc... Repeat that as many times as needed to mill the opponent.

Did I break the format?

[Ace/Homebrew]

Also don't forget that Pull from Eternity and Misthollow Griffin are already a thing, and abilities like Suspend and Cascade really just treat exile as another zone.
And Sisters of Stone Death, Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver, Bottled Cloister, etc., etc., ...
As soon as they keyworded removed from the game this was an inevitability.

Also, looks like the Awaken keyword may stem from Liege of the Tangle.


Now Exile is just another Graveyard? There is no finality to exiling things anymore.
There's always AWOL. :tongue:

[emidln]

swamp + leyline of the void + 2x dark ritual + altar of the brood + new enchant = T1 win in mono black :)

T0: play leyline
T1: swamp (B), play dark ritual (BBB), play altar of the brood (BB), play dark ritual (BBBB), play the enchant (B) --> one card of the opponent is exiled, use the mana to put a 1/1 into play and mill one card from the opponent deck, sac the token (1), put into the graveyard one card to generate another token and mill another card... etc... Repeat that as many times as needed to mill the opponent.

Did I break the format?

Mono Black already has a t1 kill via Leyline with less effort: Helm of Obedience: Swamp, Rit, Rit, Helm+Activate.

[Cire]

altar of the brood is a good replacement for Blood Artist in my deck above - now every combo card could be gotten with enlightened tutor :eek: (Or you could replace tremors, and find something else in Lightning Bolt's place to keep the deck only BW)

[Barook]

altar of the brood is a good replacement for Blood Artist in my deck above - now every combo card could be gotten with enlightened tutor :eek: (Or you could replace tremors, and find something else in Lightning Bolt's place to keep the deck only BW)
It's also cheaper, easier to cast mana-wise and you still completely blank their creature removal, unlike Blood artist.

[rufus]

altar of the brood is a good replacement for Blood Artist in my deck above - now every combo card could be gotten with enlightened tutor :eek: (Or you could replace tremors, and find something else in Lightning Bolt's place to keep the deck only BW)

And maybe even play Planar Void and go mono-black ... well, black-blue. This is legacy after all.

[Barook]

And maybe even play Planar Void and go mono-black ... well, black-blue. This is legacy after all.
Planar Void doesn't combo with Helm, though, unlike RiP which does.

[Cire]

It's also cheaper, easier to cast mana-wise and you still completely blank their creature removal, unlike Blood artist.

Yep, Agreed - but again we don't even know the real text or casting cost of this enchantment yet - it could be 5CMC :laugh:. And if it is 2B, then . . . . we made a mediocre Mardu Combo deck.


Also another card that is semi-spoiled (full text unknown) but it appears to be

2G
Mythic
Landfall - put a +1/+1 counter on ~
Phantom Ability from Judgment
2/2

[Barook]

The weird layout and the god-awful frame make those new full-art shocks look like shit. About as unpimp as it can get unless you want expensive cards for the sake of being expensive instead of looking good.

http://i.imgur.com/Zukfiyb.jpg

[iamajellydonut]

... look like shit. About as unpimp as it can get unless you want expensive cards for the sake of being expensive instead of looking good.

Welcome to the wonderful world of promos!

[MGB]

The weird layout and the god-awful frame make those new full-art shocks look like shit. About as unpimp as it can get unless you want expensive cards for the sake of being expensive instead of looking good.


Summer Magic says hello.

And if people's infatuation with Summer duals/basics is any indication, it doesn't matter how bad these new "chase fetches" look, because people will want them badly just because they're super-rare.

[Ace/Homebrew]

About as unpimp as it can get unless you want expensive cards for the sake of being expensive instead of looking good.
I generally agree with this statement, based on the border. But I reserve my final opinion for seeing them in person in foil.
The one thing I can say in support of this cycle, regarding pimpness is that some people prefer uniformity over all.

So someone with a 5 color EDH who wants all their shocks and fetches to match now has the option. :tongue:

[supremePINEAPPLE]

I generally agree with this statement, based on the border. But I reserve my final opinion for seeing them in person in foil.
The one thing I can say in support of this cycle, regarding pimpness is that some people prefer uniformity over all.

So someone with a 5 color EDH who wants all their shocks and fetches to match now has the option. :tongue:I'm hoping the textbox and border look cooler in person.

Either way I'm really looking forward to all of the new arts since I've loved the steam vents and godless shrine so far. Hallowed fountain was OK but not great.

[phonics]

Summer Magic says hello.

And if people's infatuation with Summer duals/basics is any indication, it doesn't matter how bad these new "chase fetches" look, because people will want them badly just because they're super-rare.

There is a difference between something being a rarity because it shouldn't have existed and something being a rarity because Wizards decides to make the product artificially scarce. Its like the difference between sought after collectibles (upsidedown biplane stamp) and collector sets that the post office releases all the time.

[raudo]

So far it looks like this set have zero Legacy playable cards. Even hard to find modern playable cards.

[Barook]

It's kinda weird that they spoil a bunch of stuff at PAX to get people hype and then take a break without official spoilers.

[lyracian]

So far it looks like this set have zero Legacy playable cards. Even hard to find modern playable cards.
We have less than 20% of the set spoiled and most standard sets have a low-eternal impact. We are far more likely to get a low-impact standard card that has value to one deck such as Wingmare, Ancient Stirrings or at best a card like Spell Pierce.


It's kinda weird that they spoil a bunch of stuff at PAX to get people hype and then take a break without official spoilers.
I agree the interest was peaked and then a week of (almost) nothing and interest has waned. My assumption is full spoilers will start Monday but I would have expect a few more to keep people talking about the set.

[MGB]

Is it me or is the new Gideon a perfect fit for a white Stax/Angel Stompy kind of deck with Plains and Ancient Tombs and such?

[Finn]

Because he walks around? No upkeep, can't be wrathed. Mishras factory is the same and crucibles get them back. The planeswalkers that become creatures are aggro cards, Mon Ami. And at four mana, not especially legacy friendly. Stax is die-hard control. Angel stompy has not existed for a decade because it does neither of these well.

[MGB]

Because he walks around? No upkeep, can't be wrathed. Mishras factory is the same and crucibles get them back. The planeswalkers that become creatures are aggro cards, Mon Ami. And at four mana, not especially legacy friendly. Stax is die-hard control. Angel stompy has not existed for a decade because it does neither of these well.

I dunno. Gideon seems more like a control finisher than anything else. You play your lock pieces like Chalice/Trinisphere/whatever, drop this guy, and you have a stream of blockers and a 5/5 finisher.

[Lemnear]

Gideon is just another take on the classic Elspeth except exposing itself during attacks while delivering a faster clock. I don't know if there is space in current Legacy for this effect. Feels like suffering from the Lingering Souls effect in Blade variants

[lyracian]

Is it me or is the new Gideon a perfect fit for a white Stax/Angel Stompy kind of deck with Plains and Ancient Tombs and such?
The only advantage I can see would be running 1 Gideon, 1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant rather than 2 Elspeth's just in case you draw both. He is more aggressive but his token generation does not gain loyalty and his ultimate is not much use compared to her's making everything indestructible. If you are running Armageddon and Humility I am not sure he adds anything meaningful?

[Vicar in a tutu]

So far it looks like this set have zero Legacy playable cards. Even hard to find modern playable cards.
The new Ulamog has created some buzz with the Turbo-Eldrazi crowd. They seem to think that he is stronger for them than the old Ulamog.

[bruizar]

Deep-Sea Scavenger :u::b: Rare
Creature - Eldrazi Drone
Devoid (This creature has no color)

Ingest (Whenever this creature deals combat damage to a player, that player exiles the top card of his or her library.)

Deathtouch

3UB: Draw a card. Each opponent exiles the top card of his or her library.
1/1

Some sort of nerfed Baleful Strix. It has lots of abilities but they don't really make much sense to me... I think the card draw may be relevant for limited/standard? Sweet Infinite mana sink.. I guess...

[Cire]

How cheap and how good would a card that cares about exile have to be to make ingest ever worth it?

[Megadeus]

The only advantage I can see would be running 1 Gideon, 1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant rather than 2 Elspeth's just in case you draw both. He is more aggressive but his token generation does not gain loyalty and his ultimate is not much use compared to her's making everything indestructible. If you are running Armageddon and Humility I am not sure he adds anything meaningful?

Not only that, but his tokens can't attack under an ensnaring bridge as easily, as neither can he himself. I can't imagine many times I'd rather have him over Elspeth

[Barook]

How cheap and how good would a card that cares about exile have to be to make ingest ever worth it?
We'll have to wait and see how the rumored Processor enchantment turns out, but Ingest seems like a huge failure as a mechanic. It's weak and downright boring.

[Vicar in a tutu]

We'll have to wait and see how the rumored Processor enchantment turns out, but Ingest seems like a huge failure as a mechanic. It's weak and downright boring.
A lot of people (including me) had the same opinion about Prowess, just when they were starting to preview Khans. It turned out to give us Monastery Mentor and Monastery Swiftspear. I really hope there will be at least 1 or 2 playable cards in either Battle for Zendikar or Oath of the Gatewatchers with ingest.

[iamajellydonut]

A lot of people (including me) had the same opinion about Prowess, just when they were starting to preview Khans. It turned out to give us Monastery Mentor and Monastery Swiftspear.

This is... not the same thing at all.

Ingest is a block mechanic that will absolutely rely on other pieces. Prowess is basically quantifiable p/t added onto a creature. It's still a shitty mechanic, and the only reason we got Monastery Mentor and Monastery Swiftspear out of the deal is because they were so aggressively costed.

[Barook]

http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/attachments/144/119/635772156327289454.png

Enemy manlands confirmed.

http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/attachments/144/120/635772156531600815.png
Most likely too expensive for Legacy. Any way to break this?

Edit: Wait - isn't Converge basically a recycled Sunburst?

[iamajellydonut]

Edit: Wait - isn't Converge basically a recycled Sunburst?

I think Sunburst was specific to counters, but basically.

Also, spending 1UBRG or whatever to cast this and fetch a Scapeshift or something doesn't seem too unreasonable. I'd definitely be willing to speculate on a few sets of it.

Edit:

X*Mana-Dorks
X*Fish
4*Bring to Light
4*Natural Order/Scapeshift/Some other 4cc GG spell(s)?

[Poron]

Legacy has already his blue sorcery that wins the game on the spot.

It costs 3 though..

[iamajellydonut]

http://mythicspoiler.com/bfz/cards/stasissnare.jpg

Obviously not Legacy playable, but definitely a card that I'm pleased to see.

Also, I apparently mistyped "mythicspoiler.com/newspoilers.html" and I wound up trying to download something underneath a horde of my work's AVG warning boxes. Just a fair warning to not fuck up.

[Barook]

Legacy has already his blue sorcery that wins the game on the spot.

It costs 3 though..
And requires a second card in hand. Yes, the requirement is way too easy, but they still need to find said card.

Thoughts about the manland? While initially disliking it, it seems pretty good vs. control. Creeping Tar Pit can be bolted, StP'ed, etc, while this dodges both sorcery AND instant speed removal. Probably even better in Modern where they lack decent nonbasic hate.

[iamajellydonut]

Thoughts about the manland? While initially disliking it, bit seems pretty good vs. control. Creeping Tar Pit can be bolted, StP'ed, etc, while this dodges both sorcery AND instant speed removal. Probably even better in Modern where they lack decent nonbasic hate.

It'd be funny to activate the ability in response to something like a Wasteland, but overall I think the cost is too high and the damage too low plus it doesn't have evasion. So, while it can't be easily killed, it also can't actually kill anything or anyone either.

[Megadeus]

I think the land is solid. Slightly too expensive to activate though probably. MAYBE 12 Post wants it as a rotation target? Otherwise there's not a UG deck in the format that wants this. Doubtful this pushes Bant to anyy new heights

[Dice_Box]

Waiting with interest for the Rock coloured land. If it's good, it's going to make some impact.

[Barook]

Waiting with interest for the Rock coloured land. If it's good, it's going to make some impact.
My guesses for the manlands:

BG: Deathtouch
BW: Lifelink
WR: Double Strike
UR: no idea - does UR even share a combat mechanic outside of Prowess?

[bruizar]

So, next set will probably feature 10 enemy man land expeditions...

[joven]

UR: no idea - does UR even share a combat mechanic outside of Prowess?

Well, you say it

UR: Prowess

or maybe something like Izzet Keyrune (Looting).

[joven]

So, next set will probably feature 10 enemy man land expeditions...

... plus the enemy-colored new "double-check-lands".
At least I hope they don't do half-cycles anymore.

[Pilhas]

So, next set will probably feature 10 enemy man land expeditions...

That's my guess, 20 cards - 10 manlands, 5 slow/tango/lag/whatever lands , 5 planeswalkers?!

[Dice_Box]

Those new lands of theirs are a gift to EDH players, they will do a full cycle I bet. No point to print only half of those new lands as $100 bills.

[Aggro_zombies]

Those new lands of theirs are a gift to EDH players, they will do a full cycle I bet. No point to print only half of those new lands as $100 bills.
Not a lot of budget EDH players have fetchlands, so there's not much benefit to running the new - tangolands? double-plus-checklands? Bad Shocks? What the fuck are we calling these? Also, actual shocks are all sub-$20 if you're getting the newer ones, and many are less than $10.

The manlands may have Constructed applications. Colonnade sees fringe play in Modern. The one they previewed today is unexciting but a good UR one would be potentially playable, as would a good BG or WB one.

[iamajellydonut]

Not a lot of budget EDH players have fetchlands, so there's not much benefit to running the new - tangolands? double-plus-checklands? Bad Shocks?

They're not much for buying relevant singles, but I've already heard more than one EDH baddie making comments about emptying the piggybank for every last box they can afford because of those "awesome lands!"

I wouldn't be at all surprised to see them stretched as far as they'll go.

[Barook]

Ob Nixilis got confirmed as spoiled before:

Edit: Ultimate is bit better than spoiled as before

http://media.wizards.com/2015/bfz_8asdifk2Sk2cs/en_PitAVDWBFm.png

http://media.wizards.com/2015/bfz_8asdifk2Sk2cs/en_CrUglvnPJ0.png

http://media.wizards.com/2015/bfz_8asdifk2Sk2cs/en_cWrCnmEiuP.png

[rufus]

...
Also, spending 1UBRG or whatever to cast this and fetch a Scapeshift or something doesn't seem too unreasonable. I'd definitely be willing to speculate on a few sets of it.
...

How about spells without casting cost like Restore Balance,Living End or Hypergenesis? That's the first place I'd look.

Myr Superion and Epochracite are less exciting.

[Lord Seth]

And requires a second card in hand. Yes, the requirement is way too easy, but they still need to find said card.

Thoughts about the manland? While initially disliking it, it seems pretty good vs. control. Creeping Tar Pit can be bolted, StP'ed, etc, while this dodges both sorcery AND instant speed removal. Probably even better in Modern where they lack decent nonbasic hate.In Modern, it's able to dodge Rending Volley, which will take care of a Creeping Tar Pit and Celestial Colonnade.

I just think it's cool to see enemy manlands. I take back my complaints about the lack of them I gave before. Though I still do hope we see the allied manlands again.

[Dice_Box]

Is it just me or does Kiora want to make love with a Stuffy Doll?

[iamajellydonut]

Edit: Ultimate is bit better than spoiled as before

At the very least, it's more interesting than Kiora's. At a certain point they just have to find a cleaner way to say "you win the game".

[bruizar]

Kiora is a very reasonable card. Not sure if it has a home in legacy. Will surely see play in non-legacy formats.

[Barook]

Is it just me or does Kiora want to make love with a Stuffy Doll?
But then you'd have to run Stuffy Doll in the first place.

She can draw up to 4 cards within two turns, but what deck would want to run her over Jace?

[MD.Ghost]

She can draw up to 4 cards within two turns, but what deck would want to run her over Jace?

Nic Fit in a BUG Shell, Turn 3 untap Deathrite + Land (or Phyrexian Tower if you ramped with Explorer Turn 2).

Gladly the Ob Nix had a better Ultimate, sadly he has cc5..

[iamajellydonut]

Nic Fit in a BUG Shell, Turn 3 untap Deathrite + Land (or Phyrexian Tower if you ramped with Explorer Turn 2).

But you can do the same thing with Jace. And he doesn't suck.

[Barook]

Conduit of Ruin :6:
Creature - Eldrazi (R)
When you cast Conduit of Ruin, you may search your library for a colorless creature card with converted mana cost 7 or higher. If you do, shuffle your library, then put that card on top.
The first creature spell you cast each turn costs 2 less.
5/5

Might be cool in MUD and 12-post.

Edit: Absolutely brutal with Eye of Ugin since it's also an Eldrazi.

[Cire]

How about spells without casting cost like Restore Balance,Living End or Hypergenesis? That's the first place I'd look.

Wait... Does that work?

[iamajellydonut]

Wait... Does that work?

Same reason you can cast them with Cascade*.

Cascade* also being the reason I don't think it'd ever be a viable interaction.

*Cascade

[Dice_Box]

Conduit of Ruin :6:
Creature - Eldrazi (R)
When you cast Conduit of Ruin, you may search your library for a colorless creature card with converted mana cost 7 or higher. If you do, shuffle your library, then put that card on top.
The first creature spell you cast each turn costs 2 less.
5/5

Might be cool in MUD and 12-post.

Edit: Absolutely brutal with Eye of Ugin since it's also an Eldrazi.

I do not see it in MUD, there are limited targets that it can fetch and you have better ways to make mana.

[maharis]

Same reason you can cast them with suspend. Suspend also being the reason I don't think it'd ever be a viable interaction.

Weeeellll.... I don't know. If you try to build a cascade deck (which is what I think you meant, not Suspend), you limit yourself to cards with cmc>2 which cuts off a lot of good cards for combo decks (obviously shardless/bloodbraid control decks don't really care what it hits because it's all value, but you still cut yourself off of cards like non-force counter spells or things like Mox Diamond).

So the question is, is one of these cards breakable at 5 cmc, allowing you to play cantrips and acceleration instead of dreck like violent outburst.

Ancestral Vision: probably not, tidings exists
Hypergenesis: this seems promising, deck already has spirit guides, cantrips seem good for setting up an instant win too like xenagos/emrakul
Living End: doesn't need cantrips as much as cycles, too fringe anyway in legacy
restore balance: getting to 5 implies you're saccing lands, but balance is a breakable effect
Wheel of Fate: intriguing, draw 7 is better than draw 3, but opponent gets it too, but also good with notion thief in a bug shell or perhaps in a storm deck instead of ad nauseum, of course rituals are off color so...

I'm not sure if it's good, but it has potential. Gotta look for other breakable effects that need the assist.

[iamajellydonut]

... cascade ... (which is what I think you meant, not Suspend)

thx, boo.

[jrsthethird]

That's my guess, 20 cards - 10 manlands, 5 slow/tango/lag/whatever lands , 5 planeswalkers?!

Probably 5 mono-color lands/utility lands, or perhaps the Future Sight cycle. The 5 extra lands need to be pretty good to keep the value up of the Expeditions; if they don't put some $50+ cards in there, they won't sell as many packs. I think more people would just keeping buying boxes of BFZ instead of Oath.

The former option gives them the opportunity to make a cycle like Kor Haven, Academy Ruins, Urborg, Valakut, and Pendelhaven. They probably wouldn't mix and match Legendary lands with non-Legendary ones (nor would Legendary lands make sense flavor-wise), but you get the idea. Or they can go with color-neutral lands and just go with stuff like Rishadan Port, Wasteland, Cavern of Souls, Mutavault, and Ancient Tomb. Again, some wouldn't make sense flavor-wise (I'm looking at you, Port), but they could go with Eye of Ugin or something instead.

The latter isn't a rather captivating cycle of reprints, but it does allow them to reprint Grove and Canopy as chase cards; they would be the two most expensive of the whole 20 and would definitely sell packs.

Planeswalkers don't make any sense as reprints. It's a land cycle.

[Kagehisa]

If I am right, Bring to light (at UGBWR) lets you tutor and cast Necrologia during your main phase (instead of your end step) so that you can drop artifact mana such as Petal Lotus and Chrome Mox or play a land if you haven't already (Grove). You can build a Necrologia deck without the instant speed restriction thanks to Bring to Light at the cost of UGBWR, wich is not an easy task. I'm not saying I broke Necrologia.

And of course you can cast Reset during your own turn in a world where Turnabout exists (lol)

That's all.

[lyracian]

If I am right, Bring to light (at UGBWR) lets you tutor and cast Necrologia during your main phase (instead of your end step) so that you can drop artifact mana such as Petal Lotus and Chrome Mox or play a land if you haven't already (Grove). You can build a Necrologia deck without the instant speed restriction thanks to Bring to Light at the cost of UGBWR, wich is not an easy task. I'm not saying I broke Necrologia.
Bring to light just says you can play the card with out paying mana I do not see it overriding other restrictions such as Necrologia only being cast in the end step.

I always like Underworld Dreams as a kill which makes me like Ob. Cannot see him making the cut to Legacy but might be fun to try and brew a BU control deck in Modern.

Looks like I was clearly wrong about Man-lands being in the set! I look forward to seeing the rest. Hexproof land is nice but seems too slow for tempo decks and other decks such as landstill are not really in vogue and lands no longer use Nantuko Monastery either...
They will all have a good home in modern and hopefully one or two will be useful in Legacy. My hope is for the BG and UR lands.

[Mr. Safety]

I think Sunburst was specific to counters, but basically.

Also, spending 1UBRG or whatever to cast this and fetch a Scapeshift or something doesn't seem too unreasonable. I'd definitely be willing to speculate on a few sets of it.

Edit:

X*Mana-Dorks
X*Fish
4*Bring to Light
4*Natural Order/Scapeshift/Some other 4cc GG spell(s)?

Rituals, Beck/Call, new tutor for Empty the Warrens, draw 10-12 cards. Even just ritualling into etw seems ok in modern (only format for janky shit like this, I don't think it will be legacy playable.) I like that it casts the card but in legacy the only 4 color deck is burg delver, and I think we can safely say it will never be used in that deck.

Edit: fingers crossed for a good bg manland that will be playable in loam pox...

[bruizar]

That art director needs to get fired


Temple garden:

http://i.imgur.com/eMr9AN8.png

This is literally a 1 hour work tops. If you don't believe me:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P-l9kNXAeGQ

[Barook]

I'm glad I'm not the only one who hates it. Not only does it suffer from the same problem as the Hallowed Fountain (looking nothing like the place the name describes), but it also looks like shit.

I can neither see a temple, nor a garden. It's a mountain with some green shit slapped on it, some hedrons floating around because "HURR, ZENDIKAR" and the plains part is represented by some random beam of lights. :really:

Just compare it with this:

http://media.wizards.com/images/magic/daily/arcana/1066_templegarden1.jpg

[menace13]

I can neither see a temple, nor a garden.

I don't even... Like, the art director had a chance to revamp the theme of Rav shocks from being inside city structures. Both Fountains are in the middle of a city. And then they come out with the Zendikar one that is a rock floating with waterfall. :rolleyes: I get that they wanted a natural landscape look, which is what most of us expected in a Zendikar themed set. But, they did not even show the water pool up to form a natural fountain. There are tons of places on earth where they could have drawn inspiration from and then made them float. This is instead just rushed, stupid and lazy design.

Same thing with the Temple Gardens. Huge gardens inside of a structure with a temple in the center. Par for Rav themes. Come Zendikar it is now just a mountain with lush foliage. IDK, maybe I was just assuming it would be different. Something along the lines of hedrons(cos Zendikar) around a garden similar to Stonehenge in appearance, except it would be floating(obviously).

Am not excited for the other shocks, at this point none of them are going to resemble anything remotely what their name implies.

Edit: Just looked at visual spoiler. Godless Shrine is rekt. Steam Vents is sorta kinda close to its name. 1 for 4 so far, wotc!

[Cire]

Hypergenesis: this seems promising, deck already has spirit guides, cantrips seem good for setting up an instant win too like xenagos/emrakul
.

I was thinking along this route - . . . the card is essentially a 3UG show and tell if you run hypergenesis. . . We just need to figure out if its better than just running Eureka. . . Pros: it can pitch to force and it can search for removal/hate cards. Cons: it costs 1 more and it requires 1-2 dead spots in the deck.

As for restore balance. . . maybe it be used in a balancing-tings type decks. . . 4 Balancing Act, 4 This card, 2 Restore Balance, and invasion sac lands? Turn 3 accle into this, float mana, cast creature?

[rufus]

...
Ancestral Vision: probably not, tidings exists
Hypergenesis: this seems promising, deck already has spirit guides, cantrips seem good for setting up an instant win too like xenagos/emrakul
Living End: doesn't need cantrips as much as cycles, too fringe anyway in legacy
restore balance: getting to 5 implies you're saccing lands, but balance is a breakable effect
Wheel of Fate: intriguing, draw 7 is better than draw 3, but opponent gets it too, but also good with notion thief in a bug shell or perhaps in a storm deck instead of ad nauseum, of course rituals are off color so...

I'm not sure if it's good, but it has potential. Gotta look for other breakable effects that need the assist.

The thing is that Reforge the Soul is probably better than Bring to Light -> Wheel of Fate. Similarly, Eureka or Show and tell cost 4 and 3, and Living Death costs 5 (not to mention inexpensive single target reanimation). So, for single card plans, that leaves Restore Balance as a card with potential from that list.

That said, the 'tutoring' aspect of the card is pretty powerful. To really exploit the card probably calls for some kind of toolbox with contextual utility rather than a purely linear approach.

Does the 'number of colors of mana' get copied by things like Pyromancer Ascension?

P.S. Neither Beck//Call nor Necrologia will work in the desired way: Fuse is only allowed from the hand, and the timing restriction on necrologia is still in effect.

[iamajellydonut]

I think the only way that Bring to Light will ever see any interaction with the 0cc Suspend spells is if Bring to Light itself is free. For example, if Bring to Light is somehow revealed by Epic Experiment.

[Ace/Homebrew]

http://media.wizards.com/2015/bfz_8asdifk2Sk2cs/en_v0mRZCG8JG.png

EDH card seems fine in EDH... :rolleyes:

Too bad it doesn't work with Goblin Grenade for Modern Goblins.

[Cire]

Fetch - Sac - Land - Mana Dork
Fetch - Sac - Land - Accel - Zada
Fetch - Sac - Land - Haste creature - Become Immese

:rolleyes:

[nedleeds]

That art director needs to get fired


I feel like calling that person an art director is wrong. Photoshop file organizer? Magic 'art' has reached all time joke levels, to the point why I'm not sure why they even bother crediting 'artists'. They should just farm it out to a couple of video game art houses, or India. Makes me want to play old school. Jung Park even joked at GP Vegas about how he was turning down any Magic work that wasn't lands because they were so easy, just copy from an existing land, change a few things, and poof new CGI Orgy Landscape.gif.

[Darkenslight]

Fetch - Sac - Land - Mana Dork
Fetch - Sac - Land - Accel - Zada
Fetch - Sac - Land - Haste creature - Become Immese

:rolleyes:

Okay, that's hilarious. Other brilliant cards include things that draw a card, and things that make tokens.

I hear there's a deck that does these things...

[square_two]

EDH card seems fine in EDH... :rolleyes:

Too bad it doesn't work with Goblin Grenade for Modern Goblins.

So...basically Ink-Treader Nephilim? Which makes for a fun EDH Commander if your playgroup allows for it.

[rufus]

...

Too bad it doesn't work with Goblin Grenade for Modern Goblins.

In an ally deck there's potential explosiveness with stuff like Mask of the Mimic or Twinflame. Single-target cantrips could do cute stuff. It's kind of lame that Flesh//Blood doesn't work.

[Cire]

Okay, that's hilarious. Other brilliant cards include things that draw a card, and things that make tokens.

I hear there's a deck that does these things...

Might actually work in modern? Maybe even

Fetch - Sac - Land - Mana Dork
Fetch - Sac - Land - Mana Dork
Fetch - Sac - Land - Mana Dork - Time of Need
Fetch - Sac - Land - Zada - "target creature/cantrip" - Draw 4 cards - "target creature/cantrip" - Draw 4 cards - Cerulean Wisps - Untap mana dorks - draw 4 cards - Crimson Wisps - draw 4 cards - "target creature/cantrip" - draw 4 cards - Become Immense - Cerulean Wisps/Refocus - untap mana dorks - Draw 4 cards - attack with each creature (hasted) for around 31)

[iamajellydonut]

New land is shit.

Awesome.

[QBChaz]

Yup. Really shit.

Tap to add 2 to your mana pool. Spend it only to cast colourless spells. Activate only if you control 7 or more lands.

[Dice_Box]

Oh Temple, you where so close to making my dreams come true... Oh how I could you have used you in MUD and Shops. So close. So close.

[Finn]

There is actually a tiny 2-card mini cycle that works well with Zada. One is a red lightning bolt that gets duplicated. The other one is white and I think it draws cards. I have to look them up and see if they work right.

[Barook]

So they took Temple of the False God and made it less exciting? Sure, tapping for :1: is huge, but the 7 land and colorless restriction basically kill the card. I'm not even sure the EDH crowd would want this.

[whienot]

Zada + Seize the Day

Are we having fun yet? No? Invigorate?

[Barook]

Kalastria 1BB
(might be legendary) Creature- Vampire Ally
Flying, First Strike
When ~ deals combat damage to an opponent, put a +1/+1 counter on each attacking creature you control.
2/3

Assuming it's spoiled correctly, it's an interesting card. Evasive, gives Delvers the middle finger thanks to first strike and can permanently pump your entire team before it deals damage. Not sure which Legacy deck would want to run her, but I would definitely keep an eye on her.

[Megadeus]

Interesting that they are making the allies more playable outside of ally decks.

[iamajellydonut]

gives Delvers the middle finger thanks to first strike

Just in case you're blocking with either of these creatures?

Honestly, I don't see how it's too much of a leg-up on Vampire Nighthawk.

[rufus]

There is actually a tiny 2-card mini cycle that works well with Zada. One is a red lightning bolt that gets duplicated. The other one is white and I think it draws cards. I have to look them up and see if they work right.

There are a bunch of cards like that - for example the whole 'wisps' cycle will cantrip. Fundamentally the issue is that you need to have Zada, and a bunch of bodies, and a payoff spell all at the same time.

[iamajellydonut]

Do they do this whole "FABULOUS ZENDIKAR ART BOOK!!!!?!?!!1!" for every set and I just haven't noticed? Because, if this is its debut, it's a pretty ironic release.

[Finn]

Soul's Fire . Damn, finding that card was work. If it was priced at 1, perhaps. Why the hell is it 3?

[rufus]

Soul's Fire . Damn, finding that card was work. If it was priced at 1, perhaps. Why the hell is it 3?

Two targets... doesn't work with Zeda unless you target it with both ends. (Edit: I don't think you can switch either of the targets on the copies.)

[square_two]

Soul's Fire . Damn, finding that card was work. If it was priced at 1, perhaps. Why the hell is it 3?

Why not Fiery Gambit? Works in my Ink-Treader deck.

[Finn]

Yes, the wisps are in fact better here, I think. I don't recall exactly what I used with Precursor Golem, but that awful red thing was my win con. I think it is better off with Tainted Strike for a goblin token deck, but honestly why argue over bad versus bad.

[Lord Seth]

I'm glad I'm not the only one who hates it. Not only does it suffer from the same problem as the Hallowed Fountain (looking nothing like the place the name describes), but it also looks like shit.

I can neither see a temple, nor a garden. It's a mountain with some green shit slapped on it, some hedrons floating around because "HURR, ZENDIKAR" and the plains part is represented by some random beam of lights. :really:The art actually looks like could work for Windswept Heath... did they put it on Temple Garden by accident?

[Ace/Homebrew]

I have to hand it to WotC! They found a way to make me (their prime market) completely uninterested in hyper-rare full art foil fetch and shock lands.

Behold:

http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/attachments/144/258/635773192435694815.jpg

They might as well have named it Turd Mountain, cause that is a heaping pile of shit.

I can hear them discussing the conception with the artist...
WotC: We're trying to make these undesirable to anyone with moderate vision.
Artist: I could make it a bunch of boulders in a tornado!
WotC: Can you make it shittier?
Artist: I'll add hedrons!
WotC: Perfect!


Edit: I feel obligated to clarify that I am not trying to criticize Noah Bradley or suggest his work is poor. I am confident he could create a fantastic Sacred Foundry if he were allowed to.

[MGB]

Because that art just screams "Sacred" and "Foundry" to me.

[rufus]

... I think it is better off with Tainted Strike for a goblin token deck, but honestly why argue over bad versus bad.

Well, talking about strange cards like Wojek Siren and 'combos' that don't actually work is still better than that land art.

[Finn]

That's great, rufus. You have real talent for brewing bad decks!

[Kagehisa]

@Necrologia:

Ah my bad! I thought that the option to cast the card with Bring to Light was part of resolution of the spell like cascade. I mean cascade lets you cast a spell during and as the resolution of the cascade trigger. In my mind, cascade may let you in effect cast a sorcery at a non-sorcery speed timing. I thought it was possible for Bring to Light to break Necrologia timing restriction in the same way cascade let you cast a sorcery when the stack is not empty.

[Cire]

Ulamog's Nullifier 2UB
Creature - Eldrazi Processor Uncommon
Devoid This card has no color.
Flash
Flying
When Ulamog's Nullifier enters the battlefield, you may put two cards your opponents own in exile into their owners' graveyards. If you do, counter target spell.
2/3

With Delve around and at this cost - it's almost an unconditional counter attached to a 2/3 flying body. . . maybe a one of in the sideboard for any UB control deck?

[alphastryk]

Ulamog's Nullifier 2UB
Creature - Eldrazi Processor Uncommon
Devoid This card has no color.
Flash
Flying
When Ulamog's Nullifier enters the battlefield, you may put two cards your opponents own in exile into their owners' graveyards. If you do, counter target spell.
2/3

With Delve around and at this cost - it's almost an unconditional counter attached to a 2/3 flying body. . . maybe a one of in the sideboard for any UB control deck?

so a mystic snake variant with more upside (easier to cast, flying, +1 toughness), but if your opponent doesn't exile cards its a blank? seems bad.

EDIT: worth noting its not really blue, so it doesn't pitch to FoW but can't be blasted. Yay?

[HdH_Cthulhu]

Yah bad counter is bad... You want your 4 mana counterspells to be unconditional!

The sacred foundry art isnt that bad. Its a forge where the octahedrals get melted into somthing. It gets sacred from the holy beam of light xD. That or zendikar gets a hit from some kind of Deathstar.

[maharis]

Ulamog's Nullifier 2UB
Creature - Eldrazi Processor Uncommon
Devoid This card has no color.
Flash
Flying
When Ulamog's Nullifier enters the battlefield, you may put two cards your opponents own in exile into their owners' graveyards. If you do, counter target spell.
2/3

With Delve around and at this cost - it's almost an unconditional counter attached to a 2/3 flying body. . . maybe a one of in the sideboard for any UB control deck?

When you put DTT on the stack and your opponent responds with this thing

http://giant.gfycat.com/FineFrequentAnura.gif

[joven]

The Expeditions lands' artworks are deliberately very different from their original artwork. And the city themes from Ravnica don't fit well into Zendikar. I guess they didn't care much, the cards will be chased after anyways because of their rarity. Maybe the whole Expeditions thing was a last minute idea to respond to the market situation and they conceived the artworks in a hurry, I don't know.
I have to admit the Sacred Foundry got pretty ugly. But on the other hand I like the Steam Vents and Hallowed Fountain artworks.

I still don't quite get where they end up in boosters. Are they in the land slot or in the foil mythic slot?
In the second case, wouldn't the normal foil mythics become more rare (or the foil mythic slot more frequent to compensate)?


And I still have to say, I find the set pretty underwhelming so far, not just for Legacy, for any format.

[rufus]

What are people's thoughts on Scythe Leopard? A little vanilla, but it seems like a card with potential.

[H]

Well, at least this is a card that actually matters:

http://i.imgur.com/jq2xjxK.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/OXTtnI3.jpg

[mishima_kazuya]

The Expeditions lands' artworks are deliberately very different from their original artwork. And the city themes from Ravnica don't fit well into Zendikar. I guess they didn't care much, the cards will be chased after anyways because of their rarity. Maybe the whole Expeditions thing was a last minute idea to respond to the market situation and they conceived the artworks in a hurry, I don't know.
I have to admit the Sacred Foundry got pretty ugly. But on the other hand I like the Steam Vents and Hallowed Fountain artworks.

I still don't quite get where they end up in boosters. Are they in the land slot or in the foil mythic slot?
In the second case, wouldn't the normal foil mythics become more rare (or the foil mythic slot more frequent to compensate)?


And I still have to say, I find the set pretty underwhelming so far, not just for Legacy, for any format.

Iirc, it was announced that the fullart lands would be slightly less rare than a foil mythic.
Additionally, they will only be in English, so a korean pack might have a foil fullart Polluted Delta in English, but no Korean version.
To put that into perspective, how often have you opened a foil mythic cracking packs or playing Limited?

[H]

I don't think the Expedition takes the place of the foil Mythic, he was just saying that these are 'as rare as a foil Mythic' to give people an idea of how frequently they should be seeing these in packs.

[Jamaican Zombie Legend]

Flooded Stand looks great. No surprise, it's illustrated by Veronique Meignaud.

[Barook]

Oh hey, what's that:

http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/attachments/144/355/635774380519866936.png

So it's a legendary Ringleader effect that could draw up to 4 alli- nevermind, it's shit.

I get that it can give you a steady supply of drawing allies, but it's still underwhelming.

Edit: Is this it just me or does the dude like a Kor version of Kratos? :confused:

[Echelon]

Well, at least this is a card that actually matters:

http://i.imgur.com/jq2xjxK.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/OXTtnI3.jpg

All it misses is a unicorn and some daffodils.

[spirit of the wretch]

All it misses is a unicorn and some daffodils.

... and a strand

[Barook]

... and a strand
This

Floating Islands with pink-colored watersfalls are not what I understand under a Flooded Strand. The only redeeming factor is that they didn't throw in random hedrons for the sake of it.

[Darkenslight]

Iirc, it was announced that the fullart lands would be slightly less rare than a foil mythic.
Additionally, they will only be in English, so a korean pack might have a foil fullart Polluted Delta in English, but no Korean version.
To put that into perspective, how often have you opened a foil mythic cracking packs or playing Limited?

I've opened twelve.

Sadly, three of those were Temporal Trespass.

[bruizar]

Neckbeard brony strand? No thanks.

[joven]

I don't think the Expedition takes the place of the foil Mythic, he was just saying that these are 'as rare as a foil Mythic' to give people an idea of how frequently they should be seeing these in packs.

It could share the foil mythic slot with the foil mythics.
So which slot? I actually hope it's the land slot. Like the Fetchlands in Fate Reforged.

[Zombie]

I don't even... Like, the art director had a chance to revamp the theme of Rav shocks from being inside city structures. Both Fountains are in the middle of a city. And then they come out with the Zendikar one that is a rock floating with waterfall. :rolleyes: I get that they wanted a natural landscape look, which is what most of us expected in a Zendikar themed set. But, they did not even show the water pool up to form a natural fountain. There are tons of places on earth where they could have drawn inspiration from and then made them float. This is instead just rushed, stupid and lazy design.

Same thing with the Temple Gardens. Huge gardens inside of a structure with a temple in the center. Par for Rav themes. Come Zendikar it is now just a mountain with lush foliage. IDK, maybe I was just assuming it would be different. Something along the lines of hedrons(cos Zendikar) around a garden similar to Stonehenge in appearance, except it would be floating(obviously).

Am not excited for the other shocks, at this point none of them are going to resemble anything remotely what their name implies.

Edit: Just looked at visual spoiler. Godless Shrine is rekt. Steam Vents is sorta kinda close to its name. 1 for 4 so far, wotc!

Menace for MTG art director, anyone in favor?

[warai]

Menace for MTG art director, anyone in favor?

He/She should be fired. This new Flooded Strand artwork is awful to say the least.

[Barook]

http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/attachments/144/385/635774606747039419.png

A shame it had to be double-colored.

http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/attachments/144/384/635774606705212188.png

We're also getting closer to a reuseable scry effect that doesn't blow in Legacy.

[Echelon]

http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/attachments/144/384/635774606705212188.png

We're also getting closer to a reuseable scry effect that doesn't blow in Legacy.

Unfortunately that silly bastard is colorless. No GSZ for him.

[Megadeus]

It could share the foil mythic slot with the foil mythics.
So which slot? I actually hope it's the land slot. Like the Fetchlands in Fate Reforged.

Almost certain they said it takes the land slot. They said it's possible to get an expedition land and a foil mythic in the same pack

[lyracian]

Since Mongoose does not play well with Dig would Skyrider Elf be any use for RUG Delver? Probably not but it does start as a 2/2 flyer and can get bigger. I expect a deck would need Deathrite Shaman to have a chance of making it into a 5/5

Skyrider Elf UGX
Flying; Converge: +1/+1 counter for each colour of mana spent to cast it
0/0

[Dice_Box]

I don't think so. The point of RUG is to cast cheap threats and protect them. This guy is not really filling that mold.

[menace13]

Menace for MTG art director, anyone in favor?
:laugh:

Seriously though, work that bad makes me put on my tinfoil hat. Was it a last minute shoehorning of shocks to bolster sales from the poor last quarter sales figures? And they couldn't get a good art director on short notice that would take the job because sporadic work is annoying for people that are employed full-time? Anyway, the prices will be high for these new fetches and shocks because they're slightly less rare than foil mythics(w/e the fuk that even means). Way to introduce yet another rarity, MaRo.

[Cire]

Void Winnower 9
Creature - Eldrazi
Your opponent can't cast spells with even converted mana costs. (Zero is even)
Your opponents can't block with creatures with even converted mana costs.
11/9

Ummmm. . . . vulnerable to STP - but immune to Terminus and Supreme Verdict :cool:

[jrsthethird]

Void Winnower 9
Creature - Eldrazi
Your opponent can't cast spells with even converted mana costs. (Zero is even)
Your opponents can't block with creatures with even converted mana costs.
11/9

Ummmm. . . . vulnerable to STP - but immune to Terminus and Supreme Verdict :cool:

I literally can't even.

[Megadeus]

Ilike it as a way to combat comvo

[lyracian]

Void Winnower 9
Ummmm. . . . vulnerable to STP - but immune to Terminus and Supreme Verdict :cool:
Would be funny with Chalice at 1 in a mud deck...

[Darkenslight]

Would be funny with Chalice at 1 in a mud deck...

MUD Post loves it.

[lyracian]

Black white Man land
1BW - 2/3 lifelink

Ho hum moving along....

[iamajellydonut]

Its it weird for me to like the new flyer? The 2/2 for 3cc that has "upkeep lose one gain one"?

[lyracian]

Its it weird for me to like the new flyer? The 2/2 for 3cc that has "upkeep lose one gain one"?

I would have thought it fairly weird for you to like any new card!
Nice to you be positive for a change. Are you going to build the new DEADGUY deck with this cleric?

[Whitefaces]

Mi$ty Rainfore$t

http://mythicspoiler.com/bfz/cards/mistyrainforest.jpg

[Lemnear]

Mi$ty Rainfore$t

http://mythicspoiler.com/bfz/cards/mistyrainforest.jpg

Original Art still looks miles better, but as least name and art fit together unlike with the rest of these special rare lands

[lyracian]

Mi$ty Rainfore$t
What happened? I thought these were all intended to have bad art...
😄

[Whitefaces]

I'm still not a fan of this to be honest, but it's certainly better than the rest. I just can't get over the whole look...so ugly.

[H]

I don't even care what names you guys call me, I really like the way that new Misty Rainforest looks.

[TsumiBand]

Unless I missed the discussion, Allies got a weird uber-Ringleader.

http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/avatars/78/877/635774382175563139.png

It's... not necessarily the most potent tribe in Magic, but the Ringleader effect is pretty real regardless of which tribe it's in. It will be interesting to see if Allies can capitalize on this in a way even remotely similar to Goblin/Elvish Ringleader.

The thing about it is, Allies tend to favor ETB triggers over the same-but-different Slivers that tend towards static effects. So while in theory you could chain a couple of Allies and get some interesting interactions, it's not like ripping a haste-granter and going face out of nowhere.

[jrsthethird]

Unless I missed the discussion, Allies got a weird uber-Ringleader.

http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/avatars/78/877/635774382175563139.png

It's... not necessarily the most potent tribe in Magic, but the Ringleader effect is pretty real regardless of which tribe it's in. It will be interesting to see if Allies can capitalize on this in a way even remotely similar to Goblin/Elvish Ringleader.

The thing about it is, Allies tend to favor ETB triggers over the same-but-different Slivers that tend towards static effects. So while in theory you could chain a couple of Allies and get some interesting interactions, it's not like ripping a haste-granter and going face out of nowhere.

It was posted, but there was no discussion.

Anyway, the first time I saw it, I hated it. Top of library vs. hand for Goblin Ringleader. But again, it triggers when ANY Ally enters the battlefield. So basically it lets you chain Allies infinitely. Something that lets you cantrip off of casting a creature spell (Glimpse of Nature) makes this a little bonkers. I actually think this makes him bear more similarity to Goblin Recruiter than Ringleader.

New Misty looks awesome BTW. I think when we see these cards IRL, there will be a better consensus about it.

[TsumiBand]

Oh lord, RTFC RTFC RTFC RTFC RTFC RTFC RTFC RTFC RTFC RTFC RTFC RTFC RTFC RTFC RTFC

It stacks your deck? Poop on that, I dunno about that guy

[joven]

Almost certain they said it takes the land slot. They said it's possible to get an expedition land and a foil mythic in the same pack

I watched the PAX presentation at least three times, they said nothing about land slot or Expedition land + foil mythic in one pack.
Why would the Expedition cards be slightly more frequent than foil mythics when they were in the separate land slot?



Original Art still looks miles better, but as least name and art fit together unlike with the rest of these special rare lands

I see no mist in that artwork of Misty Rainforest! :P

[nedleeds]

?

Photoshop and photoshop with wider border who cares.

http://magiccards.info/scans/en/zen/220.jpghttp://mythicspoiler.com/bfz/cards/mistyrainforest.jpg

[Ace/Homebrew]

@Jelly - You getting interested in Modern? The Vampire Cleric seems fine in that format, I don't see it breaking into Legacy though... It dies to Punishing Fire before you get any value.

RE: New Misty Rainforest art
There's still a stupid hedron in there... Original art is better, but this is the least worst art we've seen as far as depicting the actual name of the card. :rolleyes:

[phonics]

I find it funny that these full art lands barely show any extra artwork over the traditional border.

[nedleeds]

Exactly, there's barely any more .psd showing. Even if it was who gives a wooden nickel about the next shading, pixelation layer thrown over the same stuff? If you wanted and could afford nice fetches you'd already have them. You're late to the pimp party by like 5 years, more for Onslaught. These might appeal to casual beards and children but if you've played the game for any amount of time these barely rate above FNM. They'll look sick next to your Grand Prix foil and Duels of the Planeswalkers promos.

[DLifshitz]

Guys, remember that they had to come up with a very large number of landscapes for this block. Around 60 if I'm counting correctly. Some of them are bound to have ended up on different cards than originally intended, or are otherwise mismatched with the names. WotC does things like that when they can get away with it. For what it's worth, I do like Godless Shrine and Flooded Strand, but then I generally like many of the works of Noah Bradley and Veronique Meignaud.

I personally am more disappointed by the fact that so far, a lot of the set is shaping up along the lines of Allies vs Eldrazi, with some very insular mechanics on both sides. I hope they still have some more interesting things up their sleeve.

I also have this bad feeling that they are saving up Emrakul and Kozilek for future blocks, like Alara Besieged or Eldrazi Reborn. Bad because I already don't want to see any more dragons or Cthulhu in Magic anytime soon.

[Cire]

Bad because I already don't want to see any more dragons or Cthulhu in Magic anytime soon.

They're building to Eldrazi of Tarkir

[maharis]

Technically, it's Illustrator. But yeah, it's pretty much misrepresentation to call these "full art" when the text box is pretty much the same size and barely translucent. Some apes will get a kick out of opening and collecting them, though, which drives down the price of any playable singles, so whatever. To each their own.

[MGB]

Exactly, there's barely any more .psd showing. Even if it was who gives a wooden nickel about the next shading, pixelation layer thrown over the same stuff? If you wanted and could afford nice fetches you'd already have them. You're late to the pimp party by like 5 years, more for Onslaught. These might appeal to casual beards and children but if you've played the game for any amount of time these barely rate above FNM. They'll look sick next to your Grand Prix foil and Duels of the Planeswalkers promos.

This post is not dripping with caustic elitism at all.

[supremePINEAPPLE]

This post is not dripping with caustic elitism at all.Just add him to your ignore list and enjoy the new-found serenity. It's not like he's ever posted anything worth reading outside of the pimp thread.

Unfortunately his attitude seems on point when you are talking about the actual cards themselves. Allies and unplayable fatties with weird exile interactions are pretty underwhelming and they seem to be the focuses of the set.

[Aggro_zombies]

Unfortunately his attitude seems on point when you are talking about the actual cards themselves. Allies and unplayable fatties with weird exile interactions are pretty underwhelming and they seem to be the focuses of the set.
Then I'm not sure what people were expecting from a return to Zendikar, exactly. Zendikar and Worldwake were both simplistic, straightforward sets with low amounts of mechanical complexity and variety; if not for ZEN's enemy fetches and WWK's power level mistakes, they'd both be completely forgettable, on par with Born of the Gods. Rise was great in Limited but Wizards has long said the set polled poorly and exceeded its thresholds for mechanical complexity. It also didn't really have that much going for it in terms of mechanical innovation: five years on, most of what it's remembered for is the mythic Eldrazi, huge fatties whose only distinguishing features are being colorless but not artifacts and being miserable to play against.

From a creative standpoint, the first two sets of the block were also letdowns. They wanted to go for a D&D adventure world vibe, but apparently it didn't occur to anyone that "D&D Adventure World" is about as no-frills, vanilla fantasy as you can possibly get without just making Magic: the Lord of the Ringsering. If you took out the floating islands and giant polyhedral rocks, you'll have gotten rid of 90% of what made the original ZEN setting distinct from a Generic Core Set World. It wasn't until the mostly aesthetically unique Eldrazi hit that Zendikar really differentiated itself.

I'm pretty sure that the block has only retained popularity because of full art basics, fetches, and a couple of rares and mythics. Wizards is going to hit those high notes on this return. Past that, what you're seeing now is what Zendikar block initially brought to the table: forgettable Voltron creature synergies, giant monsters, and a whole lot of mechanics that weren't really mechanics, mostly just ability words on linear card design.

From that perspective, this set is exactly living up to my expectations of it.

[HdH_Cthulhu]

You forgot the traps!

[iamajellydonut]

You forgot the traps!

Well, I mean, they wouldn't exactly be traps if he did remember them.

[Barook]

Well, I mean, they wouldn't exactly be traps if he did remember them.
Maro did make a recent post that traps aren't in because they didn't have enough space for them in this block.

[Aggro_zombies]

You forgot the traps!
Traps are one of the things I'd consider "new mechanics that weren't really new mechanics." It's an ability word that just so happens to show up on the type like and denotes the spell having an alternate cost. They didn't need the trap type, that's just there so you know that all of these things with alternate costs on them are related to each other. As for alternate costs as a major block theme, well...Masques came out in, what, 1999? Hell, ZEN and WWK even had kicker, which came out in Invasion.

[kirkusjones]

They're building to Eldrazi of Tarkir

What about New Eldrazia? Emrakul and/or Kozilek fight the Praetors, Alien Vs. Predator style.
Who doesn't want to see a giant flying sky vagina fight Lady Gaga?