Pyromancer Goggles and Catch/Release

[rufus]

If someone uses Pyromancer Goggles to cast a fused Catch // Release how many times will it copy the spell?

[iamajellydonut]

When you cast a spell as fused, it is treated as a singular card. Its converted mana cost would be :5::w::u::u::r: and its text would read from left to right. If you copied that fused spell with Pyromancer's Goggles, you would copy that fused spell.

[rufus]

When you cast a spell as fused, it is treated as a singular card. Its converted mana cost would be :5::w::u::u::r: and its text would read from left to right. If you copied that fused spell with Pyromancer's Goggles, you would copy that fused spell.

So - effectively - the spell is fused, and then it gets cast? The rules have "cast both halves" which is a bit ambiguous in that regard.

[iamajellydonut]

So - effectively - the spell is fused, and then it gets cast? The rules have "cast both halves" which is a bit ambiguous in that regard.

Yeah, the reminder text as of late for many effects has been sort of iffy on its clarity.

A fused split card is treated exactly like a single whole spell with no special factors other than the knowledge that they were at one point separate cards. It cannot be countered separately or copied separately. It would literally read...

Catch//Release :5::w::u::u::r:
Sorcery
Gain control of target permanent until end of turn. Untap it. It gains haste until end of turn.
Each player sacrifices an artifact, a creature, an enchantment, a land, and a planeswalker.

[cdr]

So - effectively - the spell is fused, and then it gets cast? The rules have "cast both halves" which is a bit ambiguous in that regard.

The reminder text is a brief reminder of the full rules. The full rules are never ambiguous, at least as long as you have a basic understanding of rules terminology and English.

702.101. Fuse

702.101a. Fuse is a static ability found on some split cards (see rule 708, "Split Cards") that applies while the card with fuse is in a player's hand. If a player casts a split card with fuse from his or her hand, the player may choose to cast both halves of that split card. This choice is made before putting the split card with fuse onto the stack. The resulting spell is a fused split spell.

702.101b. A fused split spell has two sets of characteristics and one converted mana cost. The converted mana cost of the spell is a number equal to the total amount of mana in its two mana costs, regardless of color.

702.101c. The total cost of a fused split spell includes the mana cost of each half. (See rule 601.2f.)

702.101d. As a fused split spell resolves, the controller of the spell follows the instructions of the left half and then follows the instructions of the right half.

http://www.yawgatog.com/resources/magic-rules/#R702101

All you need to know though is that fuse is a choice made when casting the spell.

706. Copying Objects

706.2. When copying an object, the copy acquires the copiable values of the original object's characteristics and, for an object on the stack, choices made when casting or activating it (mode, targets, the value of X, whether it was kicked, how it will affect multiple targets, and so on).

http://www.yawgatog.com/resources/magic-rules/#R706

[rufus]

The reminder text is a brief reminder of the full rules. The full rules are never ambiguous, at least as long as you have a basic understanding of rules terminology and English.
...

The rules still use the phrase "may cast both sides", and I don't understand how you distinguish between "cast both sides [one after the other]" or "cast both sides [simultaneously]" using just the rules text.

And, if the sides are cast 'one after the other' then there could be two goggle copy triggers. That is if the "sides" that are cast are even spells, and if not, does it make sense to cast them?

[Tammit67]

The rules still use the phrase "may cast both sides", and I don't understand how you distinguish between "cast both sides [one after the other]" or "cast both sides [simultaneously]" using just the rules text.

And, if the sides are cast 'one after the other' then there could be two goggle copy triggers. That is if the "sides" that are cast, are even spells, and if not, does it make sense to cast them?

What?

702.101d. As a fused split spell resolves, the controller of the spell follows the instructions of the left half and then follows the instructions of the right half.

It's still one spell, it just has two sets of instructions

[rufus]

What?
...

It's not about the resolution, but the casting:

Split cards have two castable halves.

If I "cast both halves" does that mean I'm casting one thing or two?

I guess the answer is, using fuse, that you can 'cast a half' without 'casting a spell'.

[PirateKing]

You're only ever casting one spell. In your hand you have the choice of casting:

Catch :1::u::r:
Sorcery
Gain control of target permanent until end of turn. Untap it. It gains haste until end of turn.

-or-

Release :4::r::w:
Sorcery
Each player sacrifices an artifact, a creature, an enchantment, a land, and a planeswalker.

-or-

Catch//Release :5::w::u::r::r:
Sorcery
Gain control of target permanent until end of turn. Untap it. It gains haste until end of turn.
Each player sacrifices an artifact, a creature, an enchantment, a land, and a planeswalker.

[cdr]

It's not about the resolution, but the casting:

Split cards have two castable halves.

If I "cast both halves" does that mean I'm casting one thing or two?

I guess the answer is, using fuse, that you can 'cast a half' without 'casting a spell'.

Think about how you would represent "casting two things" with one card on the stack. (You can't.)

[rufus]

Think about how you would represent "casting two things" with one card on the stack. (You can't.)

It seems quite simple to do to me: Cast the right half of the card starting with the card in your hand, and then the left half of the card with it already on the stack.(Since the card is already on the stack when the left half gets cast, it doesn't change zones, and "keeps the memory" of being cast as the left half.) This produces a single strange object on the stack, but rules 702.101 and 708 already address how to manage the 'split fused spell' at that point.

N.B.: I understand that this is - de facto - not the way that fuse works.

[cdr]

It seems quite simple to do to me: Cast the right half of the card starting with the card in your hand, and then the left half of the card with it already on the stack.(Since the card is already on the stack when the left half gets cast, it doesn't change zones, and "keeps the memory" of being cast as the left half.) This produces a single strange object on the stack, but rules 702.101 and 708 already address how to manage the 'split fused spell' at that point.

N.B.: I understand that this is - de facto - not the way that fuse works.

Casting spells doesn't work like that. It probably could if special rules were added, but the fact that nothing like that exists is a clue to how it has to work.

[rufus]

Casting spells doesn't work like that. It probably could if special rules were added, but the fact that nothing like that exists is a clue to how it has to work.

The existing rules for casting spells are totally agnostic about what zone the spell was in before it was cast. The rules for fuse already tell us what the result looks like when the fused casting is complete. What other 'special rules' would be required?

[cdr]

The existing rules for casting spells are totally agnostic about what zone the spell was in before it was cast. The rules for fuse already tell us what the result looks like when the fused casting is complete. What other 'special rules' would be required?

The fuse rules don't tell you "what the result looks like when the casting is complete", they tell you how fuse cards are cast.

Your conception of a spell casting itself from the stack is more than a little bizarre, and would need changes to the way spells are cast and how they resolve, among other things. Not to mention the specific rules for fuse.

[jrsthethird]

Just read this. It explains practically every split card interaction:

http://blogs.magicjudges.org/articles/2014/04/29/modern-rules-problems-split-cards/