SCG Legacy Open Washington discussion

[Barook]

Just started - get in here:

http://www.twitch.tv/scglive

[supremePINEAPPLE]

Gamble -> reveal life from the loam.

This is going to go well.

[marcin]

is it legal to do this thing with Petals of Insight ?

[Darkenslight]

is it legal to do this thing with Petals of Insight ?

Yes, if you shortcut it. This isn't The Four Horsemen in here.

As an aside, it's amazing to see Omni-Tell playing Jace, Vryn's Prodigy. In addition, THAT CROP PLAY.

[useL]

Did you notice that they actually took some time to talk about Bryants' pimp? I have never seen anything like that before on SCGcast.

Very cool that they appreciate things like that in a world where standard decks with holograms are the main focus.

[Meekrab]

Bryant Cook fighting valiantly to deal this one point of damage.

edit: 9-0 day one!

[rxavage]

Bryant Cook fighting valiantly to deal this one point of damage.

edit: 9-0 day one!

i tuned in just to see him fighting the good fight. congrats to bryant for a nice day 1

[CutthroatCasual]

He makes his opponents look dumb the way he just rips apart their hand, always planning at least 2 turns ahead.

[Barook]

Stream is back online.

We start with a D&T mirror today.

[supremePINEAPPLE]

That second game of the D&T match was great.

[Darkenslight]

Did Derczo misplay with the second Cataclysm? I'm not sure.

[supremePINEAPPLE]

I love how they are going through Bryant's pimp. They should do this anytime someone come in for a deck tech with anything cool.

[Darkenslight]

...Is it me, or is there a greater variance of matches this weekend?

[Quasim0ff]

...Is it me, or is there a greater variance of matches this weekend?

NO! ONLY BLUE! 100% brainstorm penetration! ban WOTC.

"Crawls back to B&R thread".

:eyebrow:

[Barook]

...Is it me, or is there a greater variance of matches this weekend?
Day 2 breakdown (http://www.starcitygames.com/events/coverage/3443_day_2_metagame_breakdown.html)

[Meekrab]

Grixis Delver just dismantled DnT through two wastelands and a Thalia, ouch.

Dread of Night tech, nice.

[Darkenslight]

Day 2 breakdown (http://www.starcitygames.com/events/coverage/3443_day_2_metagame_breakdown.html)

It's interesting when comparing with past 2-day Opens; there's a clear Tier 1 of about 5 decks at Opens, With Miracles, Omnitell and URx Delver lists typically putting 10 or more decklists into Day 2. In addition, there's a pretty obvious Tier 2, including decks like Death & Taxes, Elves! and Esper Stoneblade. More importantly, all of those decks have the capacity to take down an Open.

Definitely something to keep an eye on for Opens. Not looked into the IQ data yet.

EDIT: In addition, Indy (Jan31) is a major outlier of late, because of the prevalence of Elves! and the difference in qualifying requirments for Day 2.

[LOLWut]

40 of 123 Day 2 decks not playing the blues. 67.5% with, 32.5% without.

[mishima_kazuya]

I finished 11-5 with AnT.
Lots of delver in day 2 from what I saw

[Barook]

I finished 11-5 with AnT.
Lots of delver in day 2 from what I saw
How can you be 11-5 if there are only 15 rounds? :eyebrow:

[Julian23]

After winning R15 he headed to the bathroom but stopped at a table and provided outside assistance to a friend. Since there were no more rounds left, they just added another lost round.


:tongue:

[Quasim0ff]

How can you be 11-5 if there are only 15 rounds? :eyebrow:

He plays brainstorm. He get to cheat like that.

[Barook]

I don't understand why the Lands just didn't go after the Jace with PF while he still had a Manabond active while spamming Marit Lages every turn to run your opponent out of StPs.

Letting Jace be active that long was asking for trouble, no matter how big your advantage was if you don't go for the win.

[weaselface]

What happened after G1 in Sooranis match?


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[Whippoorwill]

Opponent scooped for some reason.

[Julian23]

Daryl conceeded because his friend needed the Open Points more than him.

[weaselface]

Daryl conceeded because his friend needed the Open Points more than him.

So aftet two long days of magic with a decent chance of winning he just scoops? That's weird.


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[Julian23]

I mean, he didn't mention it but it's pretty much guaranteed there's a prize-split, which happens a lot when friends face each other in play-off rounds.

It happens quite often. I still remember I think it was Wafo-Tappa scooping in the Quarterfinals of a GP because that would guarantee Level 6 or 7 for his friend (the Level 1-8 pro-system WotC had before switching to Silver/Gold/Platinum).

You will also sometimes see odd splits in the finals where both players agree to the winner actually getting a smaller share of the combined winnings because he will receive more Open Points.

[Barook]

And Omnitell won. /golfclap :rolleyes:

[Meekrab]

You will also sometimes see odd splits in the finals where both players agree to the winner actually getting a smaller share of the combined winnings because he will receive more Open Points.
Is that actually allowed? I could see an even prize split, but giving the scooper more money sounds like the definition of a bribe.

[Julian23]

You have to not mess up the phrasing. What you suggest is "Do you agree to make a split with 60% for 2nd place and 40% for the winner?". That's exactly how you phrase it. Don't mention an "I get" or "You get" while mentioning a concession.

[Meekrab]

From a little googling, it looks like you're allowed to agree to split prizes however you want, you just can't add compensation from outside the tournament prizes.

[Megadeus]

Omniderp wins. Much excite. Very Skill. Wow

[mishima_kazuya]

My bad on that post, I indeed went 10-5. Sorry, had a somewhat rough day.

[barcode]

You have to not mess up the phrasing. What you suggest is "Do you agree to make a split with 60% for 2nd place and 40% for the winner?". That's exactly how you phrase it. Don't mention an "I get" or "You get" while mentioning a concession.

This is a bribe.

[Julian23]

Nope.

Edit: Of course it is. But it's also legal.

[barcode]

Nope.

It is literally the definition:


A player offers an incentive to entice an opponent into conceding, drawing, or changing the results of a match, or accepts such an offer. Refer to the Magic Tournament Rules for a more detailed description of what constitutes bribery.


Giving more prize to the loser of a match is literally an incentive to concede. :rolleyes:

[Megadeus]

Technically he isn't offering his opponent anything. He is simply asking for an agreement that whoever "loses" the match will get a higher cash split. It is up to whomever to actually do the concession.

[Julian23]

Technically he isn't offering his opponent anything. He is simply asking for an agreement that whoever "loses" the match will get a higher cash split. It is up to whomever to actually do the concession.

This guy gets it.

These deals are done all the time with judges even suggesting them when a player first consulted with them before offering such a split in the finals of a SCG Open.

[ubernostrum]

Just to clear something up:

Before the quarterfinals, and again before the seminfinals if the first one got a "no", of each Open, all the remaining players are offered a piece of paper detailing what an even split of the prizes would provide to each of them, along with "YES" and "NO" options. They each circle an option, turn them in to the Head Judge, and then (without saying who voted which way) the Head Judge informs them whether all players agreed to the split.

I've been Head Judge of, I think, seven Opens now, and I've never seen one get past the semifinals without a split agreed on.

[Bryant Cook]

When I won DC two years ago, I didn't split!

[Megadeus]

Neither open top 8 I've participated in split top 8 so idk what happens when the split gets agreed upon

[Meekrab]

It is literally the definition:



Giving more prize to the loser of a match is literally an incentive to concede. :rolleyes:
Yes, in the narrow dictionary sense of the word, it is a bribe. However, players are allowed by the DCI rules to agree to split the prizes from the tournament however they want. If you're in the finals of a tournament and the total prizes for first and second place are a Pro Tour invite and one million dollars cash, and all you care about it the PT spot, you can agree that 1st gets that and 2nd gets all the money, and then your opponent is free to drop from the tournament and take the 2nd place prize that was agreed on. However, he's also free to play you for the pro tour spot after you agree to the split. ;)

What isn't allowed is to ADD compensation to the tournament prizes, no matter how they're split. You can't say "Hey, concede to me so I get the PT spot and I'll buy you a car," because you're offering an inducement to change the results of a sanctioned match.

[iamajellydonut]

On this note, I've heard that you can only agree to an "uneven" split if it's the actual finals of the event. Confirm/Deny?

[Meekrab]

On this note, I've heard that you can only agree to an "uneven" split if it's the actual finals of the event. Confirm/Deny?
It's pretty clearly covered in section 5.2 of the DCI tournament rules:


5.2
Collusion and Bribery
The decision to drop, concede, or agree to an intentional draw cannot be made in exchange for or influenced by the offer of any reward or incentive. Making such an offer is prohibited. Unless the player receiving such an offer calls for a judge immediately, both players will be penalized in the same manner.

Players are allowed to share prizes they have not yet received in the current tournament as they wish and may agree as such before or during their match, as long as any such sharing does not occur in exchange for any game or match result or the dropping of a player from the tournament. As an exception, players in the announced last round of the single elimination portion of a tournament may agree to divide tournament prizes as they wish. In that case, one of the players at each table must agree to drop from the tournament. Players are then awarded prizes according to their resulting ranking.

The result of a match or game may not be randomly or arbitrarily determined through any means other than the normal progress of the game in play. Examples include (but are not limited to) rolling a die, flipping a coin, arm wrestling, or playing any other game. Players may not reach an agreement in conjunction with other matches. Players can make use of information regarding match or game scores of other tables. However, players are not allowed to leave their seats during their match or go to great lengths to obtain this information.

Players in the single elimination rounds of a tournament offering only cash and/or unopened product as prizes may, with the permission of the Tournament Organizer, agree to split the prizes evenly. The players may end the tournament at that point, or continue to play. All players still in the tournament must agree to the arrangement.

Basically, you can't agree to split prizes unevenly in return for results; except in the finals. Nothing in the rules stops us from agreeing to split our prizes 60/40 in return for you paying my entry fee, or buying me a Tarmogoyf, or whatever. That might be illegal in your city/state/country/whatever, but it's not illegal to the DCI. The DCI is concerned with match results being impacted based on a prize split agreement.

[ESG]

When I won DC two years ago, I didn't split!

Congrats, Bryant! It was cool that you got a deck tech and a Top 8 finish in the same weekend.