Eureka Order

[Webb]

I saw that one of my lists was posted on SCG today. I wanted to get the ball rolling so people can discuss if interested. This is still a work in progress.

Eureka Order is a mono green combo deck with a prison defense system.
The first part of the game plan is to make it difficult for your opponent to play magic.
The second part is to beat them with large, overwhelming permanents.


The core prison cards are:

http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=43545&type=cardhttp://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=48326&type=cardhttp://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=4753&type=card

The core combo cards are:

http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=1525&type=cardhttp://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=3671&type=cardhttp://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=391948&type=cardhttp://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=179496&type=card

The core lands the deck uses are:

http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=4636&type=cardhttp://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=6168&type=cardhttp://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=136196&type=card

A quick introduction: I am a legacy player from the Midwest who absolutely loves the format. I've played as much as I could over the last 3 years or so. I have been working on creating this deck in my spare time the last couple months. The idea came from my desire to brew something new and competitive. I first took notice of the excellent Sylvan Plug deck Lejay posted here:

http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?28759-Sylvan-Plug-(or-whatever-splashed-Green-stompy)

I thought it was a beautiful deck and a great idea. I did not originally plan to piggyback on that idea, but then I started thinking of uses for the card Eureka. After some brainstorming and quick testing, the chalice/sphere/choke shell seemed to work great with my idea. As of writing this, I've tested with friends and played in a few dailies online with recurring success recently (3-1, 3-1, 3-1). I can see by now that the deck is pretty good and worth pursuing further. I'm probably not going to get a chance to play in a tournament setting any time soon so I will continue to test online and with friends.

My friend RStien321 was immediately interested in the deck when I told him my idea. We have been bouncing card ideas off each other, and he has been a huge help developing the deck.

I'm still a ways from a defined list right now. Here is the current list I'm testing:

4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
6 Forest
7 Green Fetchland
2 Dryad Arbor

4 Elvish Spirit Guide
2 Living Wish
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Sylvan Library
4 Trinisphere
3 Choke
2 Garruk Wildspeaker
4 Eureka
4 Natural Order
4 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
1 Terastodon
2 Progenitus


4 Leyline of Sanctity
2 Faerie Macabre
1 Progenitus
1 Choke
2 Thragtusk
1 Hornet Queen
1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
1 Dryad Arbor
2 Karakas


I'll talk a little about my card selections, gameplay, and options:


Prison Pieces

4 Chalice of the Void and 4 Trinisphere make sure that their cantrips, counters, tops, stp's, and bolts don't work like they should. They help keep aggressive decks at bay long enough to deploy ugin and/or progenitus. We run no 1 drops due to chalice. I would not run less than 4 of either of these pieces. We want to maximize the easy to cast prison elements. The other lock out piece, Choke, exists due to the overwhelming presence of blue decks in legacy. Therefore I have 3 copies in the main deck. I would not fault someone for running 4. 3 has been a good number and I definitely want the 4th in my 75. When you cast Eureka, Trinisphere and Choke compliment Progenitus and Ugin very well. Thorn of Amethyst and Sphere of Resistance exist, but slowing down our own combo doesn't seem like something we want to do. We are mainly casting spells, not creatures. Phyrexian Revoker is something I have not tested yet but may deserve a spot most likely in the sideboard. In the last couple weeks, I noticed that the mtgo meta has shifted to less blue decks than usual. I may change my Choke numbers due to this.

Combo Pieces

4 Eureka and 4 Natural Order are at the center of the deck. I am currently running 2 Progenitus, 1 Terastodon, and 4 Ugins main deck. Sometimes finding the right spot to Eureka can be tricky. You don't want to lose to a Venser, Revoker, or Terminus. Most of the time, the dream scenario is putting Ugin, Prog, and a 'sphere or Choke into play. This can vary widely based on what you are facing and the gamestate. Repetition and knowing your opponent's deck are key as always in Legacy. Natural order most often finds Progenitus, but there are several situations where I've found Terastodon to be great. Sometimes you need to remove troublesome non-creature cards. Other times you just want 18 points of power on board. Lots of times it's a combination of both. Terastodon is usually great when put in with Eureka along side something else as well. Ugin is the reason that Eureka is better now than it ever was. Unless you are facing down a Griselbrand, he is pretty fantastic. Ugin beats their board, your prison cards beat their hand. When you activate Ugin, he kindly leaves your spheres and chalices in play. -2 also leaves your chokes in play. Do not forget that Dryad Arbor is green, Ugin will exile him. I started the list with a combination of Ugin and Karn. I realized immediately that I wanted 4 Ugin. Some number of Karn in the 75 may be an option as well. Avenger of Zendikar, Hornet Queen, Woodfall Primus, Karn Liberated, Emrakul, Nicol Bolas, Gaea's Revenge, Chancellor of the Tangle, Reclamation Sage, Dragonlord Atarka, and Ruric Thar are some other options off the top of my head. Primeval Titan is an option. You would want to rethink your land situation if you include him.

Lands/Mana

4 Ancient Tomb and 4 City of Traitors. This deck is a little clunky, but the glue that holds it together is the ability to power out a fast prison card or two. I have tried fewer cities, but having a sol land in your opener is a great start to any game. Similarly, I am running 4 Elvish Spirit Guides. This may or may not be the correct number, but I like 4 main deck to maximize early plays. They make turn 1 Sylvan Library, Trinisphere, or Choke a possibility. I also must say, turn 2 Eureka or Natural Order is also pretty decent. Having the ability to power out fast lock pieces and/or combo is important. The mana in your opener is a very big part of mulligan decisions. Right now I'm playing 6 forest ,7 green fetchlands, 2 Dryad Arbors. Running 3 Arbors is possibly better. They are a very important piece of the deck. Enabling Natural Order, protecting the hydra from edicts, chump blocking, etc. The Arbor does it all. I have moved Green Sun's Zenith in and out of the deck. It is another fetch for Arbor + ramp. I have also tested Chancellor of the Tangle. It allows you an important turn 1 mana for prison cards and also a large body to put in with Eureka or possibly hardcast. A splash color is a possibility, but protecting yourself from Wastelands is important. Plus we already run a lot of non-basics. Khalni Garden and manlands are also options.

Other Cards

I also consider Sylvan Library to be a core piece of this deck. It is not necessary to draw one, but it's definitely one of the cards you are looking to see. I think either 3 or 4 is the correct number of this card to run. Garruk Wildspeaker is an all-star in the control or slower matchups. He comes out against aggro. Both of his first 2 modes are quite relevant. He makes threats. He also allows you to hard cast Ugins. This is a real thing if he can live to do it. Thragtusk is also a maindeck option. It is just a good all around card for the deck. As I mentioned, Green Sun's Zenith can be included for ramp and to get a natural order target. Batterskull is another card I have considered for the main deck. Right now I am trying out Living Wish. It is a little slow, but can get Karakas, Arbor, or Boseiju for matchups where you need them. Karakas is currently the only card I have to deal with reanimator or Gaddok Teeg.

Sideboard

The first thing that we noticed about the sideboard is that you don't want to take too many cards out of the main deck. Obviously Choke comes out vs non-blue decks, and Chalice generally comes out against Chalice decks. I feel that the 4 leylines of Sanctity are of particular importance. You don't want to lose to an early discard spell taking a key piece of your hand. You also don't want to die to storm. Having 12 cards against them instead of 8 makes mulliganing easier. Reanimator, Dredge, and Lands are easier matchups with Leyline of the Void. It may be worth the extra slots to run all 8 leylines. The extra Progenitus comes in for matchups where he just wins the game. It is possible that the sideboard Progenitus should be an Emrakul. Choke for Blue decks. Garruk for Control. Thragtusk for burn/replace dead cards. Hornet Queen for non-blue aggro and decks that can go wide. Wurmcoil is an option for Delver/Aggro. Boseiju for non-wasteland control. If you opt to run Living Wish, your sideboard becomes more of an extension of your main deck. You may want to reconsider running leylines at that point. Ensnaring Bridge is a nother card to consider. There are many sideboard options and you should do a lot of tinkering with it.



As I have said, the deck is somewhat clunky. Its power level makes up for that. You will have to make difficult and frequent mulligan decisions. We have cards dedicated to beating blue, and can go over the top of non-blue. I hope others enjoy playing this deck, and I appreciate any questions, suggestions, criticism, and advancement.

[Redkid43]

This is incredible. Lock them out and go way bigger than they will ever/can ever go.

Invest in Eurekas now.

[kinda]

No ruric thar in the 75? Also, if your opponent puts emrakul in off eureka you just lose right?

[Webb]

No ruric thar in the 75? Also, if your opponent puts emrakul in off eureka you just lose right?

I do mention Ruric in the creatures section. He is a good sideboard option if you feel he is needed for a particular matchup (storm in particular). A lot of times you need to eureka or N.O. for something that is going to win quickly or repair a board state. We also don't do much if any damage before he is in play.

Emrakul is an issue. He is mostly just a 2 of in omni these days. For that card I currently have 2 living wish main and 2 karakas side.

[RStien321]

No ruric thar in the 75? Also, if your opponent puts emrakul in off eureka you just lose right?

I have been playing a build with Karn and Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker that can take care of an Emrakul or an Omniscience. A Terastodon can also nuke Omniscience.

Aside from Sneak and Show (not a big part of the meta) and Omnitell, it's not much of an issue. You should be able to identify those decks early in the game as well. Either sticking an early Trinisphere, or having one in hand to put into play via their Show and Tell is extremely important.

[Webb]

I havent tested much with Bolas and karn, let me know how they do. Terastodon and those walkers work best vs omniscience if you also get a sphere in play.

[apple713]

You would be surprised how often Eureka is disappointing, or gets you killed.

[Webb]

You would be surprised how often Eureka is disappointing, or gets you killed.

It is certainly bad to blindly cast Eureka at the wrong time, or if you don't know what you're dealing with across the table. You will die from that.

[Nynten]

Love the deck, but it folds pretty hard to Gaddock Teeg. You only have two copies of Living Wish to fetch Karakas and no other forms of removal for it. You could run an extra copy of living wish, splash another color, I'm not sure, but the decks that play Teeg can get him quickly and reliably and shut off both of your win conditions.

[Webb]

Love the deck, but it folds pretty hard to Gaddock Teeg. You only have two copies of Living Wish to fetch Karakas and no other forms of removal for it. You could run an extra copy of living wish, splash another color, I'm not sure, but the decks that play Teeg can get him quickly and reliably and shut off both of your win conditions.

Thanks, Teeg is definitely a problem for the deck that I'm still considering. Living wish is kind of another clunky card that the deck doesn't want. I have waffled between running them and not. 3 seems like it could be excessive, but definately something I will try out. Another option I might try is running 1 Karakas main deck in addition to the 2 side. Let me know if you think of any other good solutions.

[drude1]

Saw Jerry post this deck and had to check it out. I've been playing Eurekas in a mono-green 12 post build for a while now and generally really like the card. I would not play it against Omnitell as they can just win immediately. All other MUs are good though, especially if you can drop Ugin. Overall, I really like the idea though. Very fun to play. You mention that you are going 3-1 generally. Are there MUs that you have had particular problems with? Or is it just variance/lack of hand manipulation? Would something like scroll rack be worth it?
Also, would xantid swarm be a consideration? Let's you combo through counter magic and serves as a sac target for natural order. Just throwing stuff out there.


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[KobeBryan]

Saw Jerry post this deck and had to check it out. I've been playing Eurekas in a mono-green 12 post build for a while now and generally really like the card. I would not play it against Omnitell as they can just win immediately. All other MUs are good though, especially if you can drop Ugin. Overall, I really like the idea though. Very fun to play. You mention that you are going 3-1 generally. Are there MUs that you have had particular problems with? Or is it just variance/lack of hand manipulation? Would something like scroll rack be worth it?
Also, would xantid swarm be a consideration? Let's you combo through counter magic and serves as a sac target for natural order. Just throwing stuff out there.


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Not that bad playing against Omni

If you can control the board with chalice and trinisphere, they will not be able to go off on you.

[Webb]

Saw Jerry post this deck and had to check it out. I've been playing Eurekas in a mono-green 12 post build for a while now and generally really like the card. I would not play it against Omnitell as they can just win immediately. All other MUs are good though, especially if you can drop Ugin. Overall, I really like the idea though. Very fun to play. You mention that you are going 3-1 generally. Are there MUs that you have had particular problems with? Or is it just variance/lack of hand manipulation? Would something like scroll rack be worth it?
Also, would xantid swarm be a consideration? Let's you combo through counter magic and serves as a sac target for natural order. Just throwing stuff out there.


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As KobeBryan said about Omni, you need to drop a sphere or chalice and they are in trouble. Be very careful with Eureka.

Teeg decks and Reanimator are problematic. D&T can be tough due to Flickerwisp and Revoker vs Ugin off Eureka. Also Thalia. A quick Natural Order is great. Mulliganing into oblivion can be a problem. You generally want an opener with sphere, chalice, or library in the dark. When I started writing this they were still running the 4 round dailies (Rest in peace:frown:). I haven't had time to play in as many dailies since.

I haven't tested Scroll Rack, that actually seems like a decent card to consider. I'll test it out. Xantid is a 1 drop so I wouldn't run it unless you choose to run GSZ. Countermagic is not as much of a problem as you would think. If I was more worried I'd probably run more Boseiju. Most decks will be busy trying to counter your spheres, chalices, chokes hopefully. You want to try to drop lock pieces before casting a big green sorcery.

[Webb]

Played in a 3 round legacy daily on mtgo tonight after not being on there for a while. The event barely fired with 8 people. Wizards really kicked legacy in the face by doing away with the 4 rounders. Here's how it went:

Rd 1 - ANT

Game 1: Turn 1 chalice on 1. Opponent doesn't cast a spell until turn 4 I think, then kills me because his hand happens to be - LED, LED, Petal, Petal, Inf Tutor, Cabal Rit, and that new 5 mana tutor.
Game 2: I keep a 6 with Leyline, Choke, and nothing else. I draw 4 lands and opponent is able to tutor with mana and I think I'm dead. He goes for PiF and makes a mistake or can't get empty or something... I kill a couple turns later with Eureka Prog I think.
Game 3: I think I had Leyline + Chalice + Sphere eventually. Win with Progenitus.

Rd 2 - BG Hexmage Depths

Game 1: I turn 1 chalice. I Eureka out an Ugin + Sphere. I get Ugin to 9 loyalty. Opponent is able to play scrying and find Stage with Depths in play. Luckily he doesn't have mana to activate. I put Ugin to 11. He now has stage+depths up. I tap carefully to go to 14 life and cast wish for Hornet Queen. I Ultimate and find nothing but Spirit Guides but the swarm + Ugin is enough. I tell opponent that I haven't played this matchup yet. He has. Glad to know people are testing the deck!
Game 2 & 3: One of these games I go for a turn 2 Natural Order and get Flusterstormed. I guess I could have played around that after seeing untapped Trop. The other game I screw up. Miscount his mana on a turn I play Forest for Sylvan instead of putting Karakas into play. EOT he casts crop rotation and has enough mana to activate.

Rd 3 - Tin Fins

Game 1: I keep a Trinisphere hand with a couple libraries. He mulls to 6. Thoughtseize takes out Trinisphere. He passes turn 2. I play Library. Turn 3 he Goryo's and starts to go off. He goes down to 1. He can't finish and passes turn after discard. Somewhere in here he loses connection. I wait for 8 mins of clock, then promptly wish for the wrong card: Faerie Macabre. Karakas should have won the game. Another long period of time ticks off the clock. He ends up passing his turn. If he has 2 instant speed reanimates, why not go for it through Faerie? He is at 1 life and I have an Arbor in play. I decide to attack. He casts 1, I attempt to remove Gris. He brainstorms then concedes.

Game 2: He mulls to 6. I keep Leyline, Library, and Natural Order. Seems a little loose, but I can't mull till I find Faerie and then lose to thoughtseize. I thought Leyline might be good since he went to 6. He ends up brainstorm locking on 1 land, and I Order up a Terastodon to end it.


Wierd games. I definately did not play well, but it was nice to test the Depths. I took Boseiju out of board for this one and added the 3rd Karakas. I'll probably keep it like that for now going forward. Wish was very good for me today in these matchups. Turn 1 chalice or Sphere is fantastic as always. Don't take out your acceleration. If anyone has more insight on these matchups, please share it.

[drude1]

In your tin fins MU, which leyline are you talking about? Also, why 3 karakas? You are siding 2 in and leaving one in board?
I played with the deck some in the practice room and got crushed by stoneforge control. I would almost consider running 1-2 Boseju main. A heavy counterspell deck can just sit and wait to keep counterspells up and drop one or two threats. Also, would you consider splashing white to be able to cast the leylines? Could then also run O rings as spot removal or to out in against show and tell decks.


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[Webb]

In your tin fins MU, which leyline are you talking about? Also, why 3 karakas? You are siding 2 in and leaving one in board?
I played with the deck some in the practice room and got crushed by stoneforge control. I would almost consider running 1-2 Boseju main. A heavy counterspell deck can just sit and wait to keep counterspells up and drop one or two threats. Also, would you consider splashing white to be able to cast the leylines? Could then also run O rings as spot removal or to out in against show and tell decks.


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I was referring to Leyline of Sanctity. 3 Karakas because it is my best answer to reanimator, Emrakul, and Teeg right now.

Stoneforge can be tough if they get off a quick mystic or tnn with little resistance. If they have multiple copies of Will of the Council or have Wear/Tears it can be rough. Also their casting costs differ enough that Chalice 1 is not as oppressive. Boseiju is good against non-wasteland decks, but I just haven't found it as necessary in my testing. Karakas is much more important.

Splashing a color is not something I would consider unless there was a very strong reason. Being able to drop basic forests as you are casting lock pieces allows you to get to Sorcery mana with less problems. If you test the deck enough, this can sometimes be a difficulty even with 23 lands. The manabase already needs 10 cards that produce colorless or are a creature. That leaves only 13 other slots. I would run Karn over O-Ring I think. Ring would only be good vs Show if you have the sphere to back it up. If not they just go off at instant speed. I would rather show in a Terastodon or Primus that can attack. Other than taxing effects, I do not run any reactive cards that can't also be offensive weapons. You just don't end up with enough things to put in play to be able to do something like that. If you want to run reactive cards, its better to go with the Sylvan Plug strategy where you don't have 2-3 card combos.

[RStien321]

I played the deck at a Legacy Landlord event at Grand Prix Oklahoma City after missing day 2 by going 6-3 with Grishoalbrand. Below is my list:

Maindeck:
4 Windswept Heath
3 Wooded Foothills
6 Forest
2 Dryad Arbor
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Elvish Spirit Guide

4 Eureka
4 Natural Order
2 Progenitus
1 Terastodon
4 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
1 Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker
1 Karn Liberated
1 Garruk Wildspeaker

3 Sylvan Library
1 Living Wish

4 Chalice of the Void
4 Trinisphere
3 Choke

Sideboard:
1 Thragtusk
1 Hornet Queen
1 Choke
1 Garruk Wildspeaker
1 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
1 Dryad Arbor
2 Karakas
2 Faerie Macabre
4 Leyline of Sanctity

I went 3-1 in the Legacy Landlord Event. Below are my matchups with a brief summary of each one.

Round 1 – White Equipment (W 2-0)

Game one I stick a Trinisphere on turn 2 with an ancient tomb and forest. My oppoenent made no plays the following turn while I was able to cast a Eureka to put a Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker, Karn Liberated, and Elvish Spirit Guide into play. My opponent put two Puresteel Paladin, a Batterskull, and a Masterwork of Ingenuity copying Batterskull. I minus 3 Karn to blowup the Batterskull, and Plus 3 Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker to blow up the Masterwork of Ingenuity. My opponent has no positive attacks and Trinisphere has him locked out from casting spells. The following turn I minus 3 Karn again and plus 3 Nicol Bolas to further control the board. I ultimate Nicol Bolas the next turn and my opponent scoops. Game two saw a turn 5 Eureka for Ugin, the Spirit Dragon and Nicol Bolas. My opponent scoops after Eureka resolves.

Round 2 – Dredge (L 0-2)

Game one I play a forest and pass. My opponent plays Lion's Eye Diamond and Faithless looting[CARDS]. Then flashbacks faithless looking by cracking LED. The game ends within a few turns. Game two I mulligan to six. I have one [CARDS]Faerie Macabre in my opening hand and give it a whirl. I aggressively used Macabre to attack my opponents dredge enablers (a mistake in hindsight as I should have went after Bridge From Below). I am able to get an Ugin on board, but it succumbs to an Ichorid.

Round 3 – Shardless BUG (W 2-0)

Game one my opponent is on the play. I keep a hand that has Eureka, Ugin, the Spirit Dragon, Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker, Ancient Tomb, Forest, and Elvish Spirit Guide. My opponent plays turn one Deathrite Shaman, turn to Liliana of Veil. On my turn two I go for it and cast Eureka. It resolves and I am able to get Ugin, the Spirit Dragon and Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker into play – smooth sailing from there. Game two I board in Leyline of Sanctity and have on in my opening hand plus a Eureka. I start with Leyline in play. My opponent is on a mull to six, plays a Underground Sea and passes. I play a forest and pass and my opponent has no second land. At this point I am fairly confident my opponent is full of counter magic if they kept a hand with no turn one or turn two play. I stick a Sylvan Library turn 2. My opponent has no turn 3 play and they pass. On my turn three I see a Living Wish in my top cards. I take it and no others and decide to fire it off. My thought is if my Living Wish gets countered it’s no big deal, if they don’t I get Boseiju , Who Shelters All to force through Eureka the next turn. It resolves, I get Boseiju, Who Shelters All and my opponent draws a fetch and passes I fire off an uncounterable Eureka for an Ugin, the Spirit Dragon and Nicol Bolas that I find with Sylvan Library to finish off the round.

Round 4 – Death and Taxes (splashing Green) (W 2-0)

Game one doesn’t have much to say. The death and taxes player had a mana denial hand that relied heavily on Rishadan Ports. I power through by hitting several land drops and Natural Order for a Progenitus. My opponent scoops as there is literally nothing besides Council’s Judgement that Death and Taxes has to deal with Progenitus.

I board out my chokes, and bring in Hornet Queen, Karakas (for Gaddock Teeg), and Thragtusk. Turn one my opponent plays Grafdiggers Cage. I play an Ancient Tomb and Chalice of the Void for 1. My opponent plays a land and passes. The next turn I play a Sylvan Library. My opponent plays another land and passes. The next turn I play a Chalice on two. I spend the next several turns sculpting my hand and cast Eureka. I put into play an Elvish Spirit Guide, my opponent puts in a Stoneforge Mystic. I put I a Thragtusk and my opponent puts in another Stoneforge Mystic. I put in a Hornet Queen and my opponent puts in a Mother of Ruins. I put in an Ugin, the Spirit Dragon and my opponent scoops.

Closing Thoughts:

There is no doubt the deck is powerful. The ability to combo off early is on par with Show and Tell decks, and most Legacy decks simply fold to Ugin. Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker is awesome in the deck, but I am not 100% sold on Karn Liberated. I need to test more.

The single Living Wish is great. The ability go get a utility land or just to keep hitting land drops is great. Plus getting a relevant creature is fantastic. I think it is great as a one of, and would consider running two.

Dredge is definitely a tough matchup. Macabre is a solid sideboard card for Reanimator, but Leyline of the Void might be necessary to provide further graveyard hate. Another option is to run Savannah and Rest in Peace. This will likely be meta dependent.

I am trying Kozilek, Butcher of Truth in the board. The deck can ramp hard, so I thought the ten mana could be achievable to cast over Emrakul, the Aeons Torn. The issue is that those are very corner conditions and Emrakul, the Aeons Torn simply wins when it swings and is much more difficult to deal with.

I am excited to keep playing the deck. It has raw power, the lock pieces are brutal, and opponents don’t know how to play around it. It does lack the consistency that cantrips provide, but Sylvan Library is amazing!

[Michael Keller]

Hickory Woodlot seems like a good fit in here.

[Webb]

Those are some interesting match ups you faced. I haven't had the chance to get in many games with the deck lately. Seems like you have only had great things to say about Nicol Bolas. I will plan on adding him to my list. In my limited testing of Karn, I agree that he feels underwhelming. There are great situations for him, but I'm not sure this deck is the best deck for his abilities.

There is a weird balance between how good the planeswalkers are, and how realistic it is to cast them. Obviously Garruk is easy to cast, but miracles is one of the only decks he really shines against. Nicol Bolas will never be cast, but seems fantastic most of the time off of Eureka. Karn and Ugin are in the middle ground. Karn can be cast, but what percentage of games do you actually get to do that? Hardcasting Ugin at 8 mana when you aren't already dead has been a low percentage in my experience. But it does come up and will win those games a lot of the time.

I feel like between Karn and Nicol Bolas, the difference in power (in our deck) versus the cast-ability of Karn favors Nicol Bolas.


Hickory Woodlot seems like a good fit in here.

I had not considered this land yet. It seems great, but the comes into play tapped is a huge drawback. In our openner we want lands that can quickly put lock pieces into play and/or combo. The only time I'm ok with being vulnerable to Wasteland is when I can put a chalice/trinisphere in play first. Otherwise I'd prefer to lead with a Forest or Fetch.

[Michael Keller]

A land that comes into play tapped should really be of no concern when your power play is turn two or three, at worst. Because the infrastructure of the deck is predicated on speed and powering out Eureka or NO as soon as possible, don't let a single Magic card like Wasteland act as a deterrent to that speed when this is the only land in a deck like this that operates with other Sol lands enabling a turn two Eureka.

[Webb]

A land that comes into play tapped should really be of no concern when your power play is turn two or three, at worst. Because the infrastructure of the deck is predicated on speed and powering out Eureka or NO as soon as possible, don't let a single Magic card like Wasteland act as a deterrent to that speed when this is the only land in a deck like this that operates with other Sol lands enabling a turn two Eureka.

My reply to this was a little hasty last night, I was pretty tired. Thanks for being persistent, this land does seem like a good option.

Speed is definately a key to this deck. A decent amount of the time, a turn 1 chalice, library, or sphere comes down and does a ton of work. That is when you are dropping a sol land early, or forset + spirit guide. This land doesn't work well with that plan. But I was missing the big picture. If you don't have a turn 1 play, this land is a fantastic turn 1 land drop. It enables a lot of great turn 2 options as well and gives more ramp to the deck.

Wasteland is a popular card in legacy. It can beat you by itself if you are not careful, but it seems like you are correct that this land is worth it. There may be some matchups where it is not, and maybe that should be taken into consideration when sideboarding.

I'm going to tinker with the mana base to find a good mix and test this one out. Let me know if you do any testing yourself. Thank you very much for the input.

[KobeBryan]

Top 8 another one man.

I have 3 ready to be unloaded.

[RStien321]

Ran into a fun (not for my opponent) rules interaction while playing against Death and Taxes. I had a Trinisphere in play, two Ugins in hand, and three lands. While resolving Eureka, I started out by putting three lands onto the battlefield while my opponent put a Mirron Crusader, Batterskull, and Jitte into play. I put an Ugin into play and my opponent puts a Flickerwisp into play. I then put another Ugin into play.

Before state based actions are checked, triggers must be put on the stack. My opponent stacks his triggers for living weapon and Flickerwisp targeting one of my Ugins. Once the abilities are on the stack, state based actions are checked and I sacrifice the targeted Ugin and am able to wrath his board, including the Germ.

I go on to crush my opponent with an Ugin ultimate putting into play another Ugin and Terastodon for a triple stone rain affect and minus zeroing the new Ugin to toast the elephant tokens.

Other things to note - Karn and Nicol Bolas stock goes up as Sneak and Show starts to see more play over Omni. Stealing/exiling an opponents creature, and/or blowing up a sneak attack (though Ugin can do this) is something that we gain here. I also like Hornet Queen against the Emrakul decks as it gives us permanents to sacrifice and lets us block and kill Emrakul/Griselbrand. Resolving a Trinisphere remains as potent as ever and is incredibly annoying for almost any deck we play against.

If things go according to plan, I should be able to make it to the SCG Open in Kansas City in November and will plan to play this deck in the Legacy 5K!

[RStien321]

Webb and I chatted about the deck last night on some potential tweaking that could take place:

Graveyard Hate in board:
-1 Dryad Arbor
-2 Faerie Macabre
+1 Savannah
+2 Rest in Peace

I like the idea of having a permanent answer for dredge. Not a huge part of the meta, but it is this really annoying deck that can completely ignore Ugin as a threat.

RIP does open itself up to counter magic from match ups like reanimator. It could be something to come in against RUG Delver, but it really opens us up to wasteland, which I don't love. I think the RUG matchup is in the 60/40 range as is since Chalice and Trinisphere either lock the game up, or eat up their countermagic to resolve a NO or Eureka on turns 3-4.

Axing Garruk in the maindeck (pun intended):
-1 Garruk Wildspeaker
+1 Sylvan Library

Green is sorely lacking in card selection and card advantage. Games where Sylvan library hits play have a much higher win percentage than those where it doesn't. There is no question the card is terrible in multiples, so a four of seems very strong. The card is just so good in this shell that I am going to test it out.

Threat change:
-1 Karn Liberated
+1 Nicol Bolas Planeswalker

After Eureka resolves, often times you are staring down a swarm of creatures or permanents from your opponent. Nicol Bolas minus ability does a better job at protecting itself than Karn. Being able to steal an opponents largest creature can create a stalemate, Nicol Bolas is more likely to ultimate (and win by doing so), and the plus ability is more impactful post Eureka than Karn. I will try not to get discouraged by the huge flavor fail that is putting in a Nicol Bolas and Ugin off a Eureka.

[square_two]

Why not one or two Bojuka Bog in the side if you are worried about dredge? Is it not permanent enough of a solution? I've also wondered if a second Living Wish in the main could be helpful.

I'm working on getting some last pieces for this and as soon as we do some local Legacy then I'll try to report back with some observations. I managed to pickup a playset of Italian Eurekas at GP SeaTac for half the usual cost.


RIP does open itself up to counter magic from match ups like reanimator. It could be something to come in against RUG Delver, but it really opens us up to wasteland, which I don't love. I think the RUG matchup is in the 60/40 range as is since Chalice and Trinisphere either lock the game up, or eat up their countermagic to resolve a NO or Eureka on turns 3-4.

Rest in Peace makes sort of a cute combo with Terastodon, enabling you to destroy 3 of the opponent's lands and they would not get any tokens in return.

[square_two]

I played in a 72-man Legacy IQ yesterday and emerged with a 4-3 record and 23rd place. Here's the list I played:

4 Eureka
4 Natural Order
4 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
2 Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker
2 Progenitus
1 Terastodon

4 Chalice of the Void
4 Trinisphere
3 Choke
3 Sylvan Library
1 Scroll Rack
1 Living Wish

4 Elvish Spirit Guide
2 Dryad Arbor
6 Forest
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Wooded Foothills
3 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
1 Hickory Woodlot

Side:
2 Garruk Wildspeaker
2 Thragtusk
3 Faerie Macabre
4 Leyline of Sanctity
1 Karakas
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
1 Dryad Arbor

Round 1: Elves
G1) He fetched Forest into DRS and so I put him on Elves (Yay I'm thinking). I stuck a Trinisphere on my first turn. He proceeded to play 1 elf the next turn, then 2 elves the turn after, and then had enough to NO for Craterhoof. I had a possible Eureka -> Progenitus but feared it would not be fast enough. I had two turns with Sylvan Library out to find an Ugin to join the fun, but did not find it in time.

-3 Choke, -1 Living Wish, +2 Thragtusk, +2 Garruk I believe

G2) I have a solid Eureka keep but stall for a couple turns just Ancient Tomb, Forest, Forest while I try to build it up a bit more. He has 4 or 5 elves, Forest and Bayou. I Eureka and put 2 Thragtusks into play alongside a Nicol Bolas, gain 10 life and blow up his Bayou. This puts him at 3 possible mana from Forest and 2 DRS (2 lands in graves) which is nicely just short of NO. He passes and I blow up his Forest which he scoops to. He comments that he should have bounced his Visionary in response to Eureka to get a free draw.

I put in Leylines in anticipation of hand disruption, and a Karakas (I forgot about possible Teeg G2, but didn't see a Savannah anyhow)

G3) I have possible T1 Chalice but he Thoughtseizes it away. I fairly quickly put together an NO -> Terastodon, leaving him with no lands + 3/3 + couple of Elves. On my side is 9/9 and 2 3/3 and I attack into a win while he stalls.

Woo, 1-0

Round 2: Elves
G1) I don't remember initial details, but an early Library helps me dig for Eureka food, putting into play Proggy, Nicol Bolas, and Trinisphere. I have an NO turn or two later for Terastodon to nuke his lands which he scoops to.

G2) Sad game. I have a Leyline, two Chalices out (on 1 and 2), but nothing to do after that - think I had NO in hand but no fetches for an arbor. He NO's for Hoof and hits for 6 and then 5 and I'm dead from earlier green guys.

G3) I have what seems to be an amazing hand, containing Leyline, Hickory Woodlot, Forest, Trinisphere, Eureka, Ugin. I do that line of play, T2 Trinisphere into Eureka shortly after and drop Ugin into play. He drops Craterhoof (ugh!) and then follows it up with NO->Craterhoof for a win. With him having NO in hand, pretty sure I was dead anyway.

1-1

Round 3: Reanimator
G1) He plays first, keeps 7, but plays nothing on his turn. I have a Chalice and decide to play it for 0 (turns out he does have a Petal in hand) and he allows it. He draws and discards Grave Titan. I attempt a Trinisphere but he forces it, and then reanimates the Titan and I die very quickly. Might of been able to win if I had lead with Chalice on 1 (probably would have been forced) and then Trinisphere.

I side in heavy graveyard hate, thinking that I can't afford to bring both Leylines and the hate. Plus he doesn't quite know everything I'm playing yet.

G2) I have an early Chalice on 1 which resolves. Followed by early NO->Proggy which seals the game. He is able to Entomb but doesn't have an answer.

G3) I attempt an early Chalice (forced) and then Library which does resolve. Does not take me long to setup NO->Proggy again a turn or two later, and he again does not have an answer.

2-1

Round 4: Punishing Jund
G1) I start with a fetch on the field. He leads with Verdant->Bayou. I decide to go for it and crack my fetch at his end of turn and grab an arbor. Then my turn 2 is City of Traitors->Elvish Spirit Guide->NO which resolves and gets me Proggy. I attack next turn and play another fetch, giving up my City. He plays Liliana and -2 but I fetch in response and sac the 2nd arbor.

G2/G3) I don't have good record of either of these games, but I struggled with sideboarding (Chalice and Choke out since I saw he had Chalice) and discard + opponent's Library + advantage from Bob easily got there. Pretty sure his Liliana ult'd at one point which prevented me from hoping for top-deck Eureka into Ugin. I'm not sure if I sided into Leylines for game 2 but should have.

2-2

Round 5: Punishing Jund
G1) I get out a quick Eureka->Ugin which stalls long enough for NO->Terastodon which seals the game.

I side -1 Living Wish, +1 Karakas, -4 Chalice, +4 Leylines, -3 Choke, +2 Garruk, +1 Faerie I think

G2) Thoughtseize, Wasteland, Bob all wreck me.

G3) I mull to 5 but have lands in my hand. Draw into Trinisphere which slows him down but he gets Loam engine going very quickly. I have 6 mana available with an Ugin and Karakas in hand, decide to play the Karakas and hope to draw any land the next turn so I can hard cast Ugin. My dreams are crushed by Wasteland + Teeg + Dark Depths/Stage shortly after.

Need some better answers for Jund :/

2-3

Round 6: Deathblade
G1) He forces an early NO, and then gets in with Batterskull + Jitte + Wasteland.

I bring in Leylines and take out Chalices I believe (figured diverse threats and a grindier game would favor Choke)

G2) I fight through Thoughtseize and Force but eventually land NO->Proggy. His fetching and forcing has left him at 15, so I swing in and get him to 5. His batterskull brings him only up to 9 which isn't enough to save from a second Proggy hit.

Sorry don't have a ton of detail, tried to be quick and focused on the games

G3) I have Leyline and an early Library. He plays Meddling Mage and names NO which I'm fine with. I land Trinisphere next and Library helps find me Ugin and Eureka which I play out successfully. He makes the mistake of not putting in Pithing Needle from the Eureka (and also putting in Mystic), and so I get a turn to nuke his creatures and leave him with equipment. I find an NO turn or so later to use.

3-3

Round 7: Shardless BUG
G1) This one was entertaining. I have an early Chalice on 1. He suspends Ancestral Vision, and so I put in a Chalice on 0 which he chuckles over. Soon after I Eureka into Ugin to nuke his board. He plays Liliana next turn and ticks her up, at end of turn I crack two fetches and bring in 2 arbors. Attack and bolt Liliana and I continue to control the board and save Ugin from a Creeping Tar Pit. Eureka->Nicol Bolas turn later to seal the game.

I bring in Leylines primarily to combat discard and Liliana. Probably -1 Scroll, -1 Living Wish, -2 Chalice I think.

G2) I don't have Leyline, he has Thoughtseize, Force, and 2 Hymns. I have nothing.

G3) I start with a Leyline and aggressively get out Choke and then NO choosing...Terastodon! I figure it was best choice since he could have been able to pulse the Leyline and then get Liliana out. I nuke 2 of his lands and 1 of mine, leaving a board state of...elephants, choke, and leyline. It was enough to get there.

4-3

Very fun deck to play, enjoyed finally being able to take this to a tournament.

Thoughts:
First games seemed to be very explosive and opponents were unprepared. They would typically see either NO or Eureka but not realize the other was available for second game.
I had no chance to try out Scroll Rack. It was in since I figured that it + 3 Libraries was better than 4 Libraries. Will probably cut it since the 3 Libraries seemed like enough, and I sided it out often.
Living Wish also seemed to underperform.
I was initially really skeptic about Leyline of Sanctity but it proved invaluable in a few games. I didn't come across multiple copies very often, I remember fetch/shuffling away one thanks to Library.
Single Hickory Woodlot seemed perfectly fine, and I was happy to see in opening hand a few times.
3 Faerie Macabre seemed a bit too much. I'll probably take RStien321's advice and put 2-3 Rest in Peace in the side, along with a Savannah in the main.

I'm not sure about keeping the Living Wish package. 2-3 Rest in Peace covers graveyard strategies and will shore up PJund and Tarmogoyf strategies. Works wonderfully with Terastodon since I can nuke 3 lands and they get nothing in return. I'll probably look to up the fetch count to 8, Forest to 5 and single Savannah. Opponents generally use wasteland on the sol lands anyway.

Beast Within really intrigues me and I may try running 2 in the main in place of Scroll Rack and Living Wish. Or just 1. The token works well with Ugin and it handles so many trouble cards - Teeg, Liliana, Dark Depths/Stage. Could also use it to get usage out of City of Traitors before a land drop. Blowing up their 3rd land while Trinisphere is out could provide me with a turn to Eureka or NO counter-free.

Anyhow, I plan to get MTGO soon and do more testing there - I know my lack of experience was a hindrance, and I want to shore that up as well as tune the deck.

Cheers