What's your opinion about Jace, the Vryn's Prodigy and his incursion into Legacy?

[Serch]

I mean his incursion into some kind of deck you're seeing lately.

[TsumiBand]

Hasn't made it into any Tight Sight lists... 2/5 poké balls

[HdH_Cthulhu]

Seems nice in reanimator for obvious reasons.

[jrsthethird]

Good for him.

[dsck]

At first I was surprised seeing it in legacy lists, but then I realized its a 2-mana planeswalker with ability to protect itself and create card advantage. The current meta with graveyard/delve shenanigans seem good environment for this jace.

[Crimhead]

I'm not sure what you are getting at. Legacy gets new playable cards from time to time. It's not as if the new Jace is making big waves or shaking up the meta - it's a card that sees play.

[Darkenslight]

At first I was surprised seeing it in legacy lists, but then I realized its a 2-mana planeswalker with ability to protect itself and create card advantage. The current meta with graveyard/delve shenanigans seem good environment for this jace.

Origins Jace is a Merfolk Looter that can't attack and deal damage, but with a major upside. I'm not surprised that he warrants testing in Legacy.

[AnziD]

Did not like him in Miracles, at least in my limited testing.

[Quasim0ff]

Did not like him in Miracles, at least in my limited testing.
Oh really.....

[Crimhead]

Origins Jace is a Merfolk Looter that can't attack and deal damage, but with a major upside. I'm not surprised that he warrants testing in Legacy.Cards have to be good to make it in the big leagues. Nothing out of the ordinary here.

[barcode]

Jace is great in every format where it's legal. I need to grab foils before they become $∞.

[HdH_Cthulhu]

Jace is great in every format where it's legal. I need to grab foils before they become $∞.

You are a bit late... There was this guy in the origin spoiler thread who pre-ordered 200! (At least he said he will)

[Meekrab]

A new Jace is potentially playable in Legacy? Quelle surprise!

[atopebenidorm]

The new jace in UBx decks is awesome. This guy with thoughtseize or iok is broken. I think Grixis will survive in legacy because this guy + kolaghan's command is good Vs all matchups.

[Lormador]

I haven't seen anyone fielding him, which doesn't surprise me. Perhaps testing reveals him to be secretly strong, but he looks seriously weak on the surface. 2 mana, 0/2, next turn he might flip and give me flashback on something? This is $50 for a sluggish Snapcaster Mage that can't attack. I have better use for my gaming funds than such a dubious expenditure. I'd hardly call his first ability protection either, -2/0 is not very convincing.

[jrsthethird]

I haven't seen anyone fielding him, which doesn't surprise me. Perhaps testing reveals him to be secretly strong, but he looks seriously weak on the surface. 2 mana, 0/2, next turn he might flip and give me flashback on something? This is $50 for a sluggish Snapcaster Mage that can't attack. I have better use for my gaming funds than such a dubious expenditure. I'd hardly call his first ability protection either, -2/0 is not very convincing.

When he's the next $100 Standard card and played in half the Legacy DTBs you'll be regretting this.

[KobeBryan]

When he's the next $100 Standard card and played in half the Legacy DTBs you'll be regretting this.

Then scoop it up bro

[Lord Seth]

A new Jace is potentially playable in Legacy? Quelle surprise!Well, the Jace before this was one of the worst planeswalkers ever printed...

[Lormador]

Were that (baby Jace becoming a staple) to happen, I would be chagrined and probably end up buying the card at the higher price.

However, I see pretty scant evidence that baby Jace is becoming a thing. The last premier IQ in Milwaukee top 8 featured a single copy, and that was in Grixis Pyromancer: a deck cut to tier 1.5 (at best) with the recent banning. I think it's more likely that baby Jace slowly disappears than that he becomes dominant. If there's reason to suspect otherwise, a surge in his use in a popular archetype for instance, please share.

[Fox]

I've been running it as a 1-2x since it was legal in legacy; been really pleased with all four functions [five if you count the block trick]. I'm quite happy if an opponent wastes a card to fight it, because they kind of have to [or else it gets real bad for them, real quick].
Looting:
-strategically grow goyfs and reanimator will be strong as yard hate should decrease a bit now that DTT is gone. Plays well with daze in the mid-game, changing lands to spells. May seen fringe synergy with a card like Riftstone Portal. I'm also sure a deck using Jeskai Ascendancy can abuse stacking multiple loot triggers at instant speed - and I'm shocked the modern players of this combo haven't tried this yet.
(+1) ability:
-slows delvers, quite good at turning off jitte, blanks abilities like deathtouch [strix], first strike [thalia/mirran crusader]
(-3) ability:
-self explanatory, but also allows alternate cost spells from the yard.
(-9) ability:
-actually surprisingly relevant; have won a couple games vs MUD's t1 chalice, focusing on the wasteland plan into inevitable death by mill. Consider it against any non-Emrakul prison decks.

If you don't need a "flagbearer" effect, and your game plan is flip then flashback a spell, then he dies...this probably isn't the card you want to run. If you're a deck that wants to play standard [spam as many lands onto the field as you can, every turn you can], then again it's not the card you want to run, as lands are generally what you should want to dump with loots.

[Megadeus]

If anything grave hate increases now that UW decks aren't relying on the yard and can now just play RIP

[Jamaican Zombie Legend]

However, I see pretty scant evidence that baby Jace is becoming a thing. The last premier IQ in Milwaukee top 8 featured a single copy, and that was in Grixis Pyromancer: a deck cut to tier 1.5 (at best) with the recent banning.

I have to second this skepticism. There's a lot of hype around Jace in Modern/Legacy, but not a whole lot in the way of results. Checking mtgtop8 of thecouncil.es doesn't yeild a whole lot of format penetration, with rare sightings of one or two counts in some 75s and fewer decks running three or more.

Tinfoil hat time: I think a lot of hype is being generated about his playability in non-rotating formats to keep the Standard prices high. Nobody wants to buy into a (4-of, to be fair) staple that will rotate in a year for $50 a pop. But convince people it will retain some of that value based on Eternal hype...

[Dice_Box]

It has some use in Modern where it sees play in Grixis. The card has seen some play here and their in Vintage too. Personally though, I think it will stay played in Modern over time (Double so if Snapcaster sees the axe) but die out elsewhere.

[Darkenslight]

I have to second this skepticism. There's a lot of hype around Jace in Modern/Legacy, but not a whole lot in the way of results. Checking mtgtop8 of thecouncil.es doesn't yeild a whole lot of format penetration, with rare sightings of one or two counts in some 75s and fewer decks running three or more.

Tinfoil hat time: I think a lot of hype is being generated about his playability in non-rotating formats to keep the Standard prices high. Nobody wants to buy into a (4-of, to be fair) staple that will rotate in a year for $50 a pop. But convince people it will retain some of that value based on Eternal hype...

He's playable, but he's not the optimal card you want - he's relevant in terms of creature type and abilities, but there are normally things that do that job better.

[Megadeus]

Well now he's 85 bucks so if you wanted them but didn't have them, you miss the boat

[Dice_Box]

Funny that in the time it has taken for mine to ship from the US I have doubled my money. Magic... It's insane at times.

[bruizar]

Well now he's 85 bucks so if you wanted them but didn't have them, you miss the boat

Called it at €8.00. People may or may not like me, but I know my MTG markets :x

[warai]

The card is certainly not garbage but it is way too over-hyped and everyone is scared of missing the next JTMS or Liliana. People should put this in their minds - this card is not even close to the power level of this 2 cards. JTMS is a 4 mana planeswalker that if not answered almost imediatly wins you the match, Liliana is a 3 mana planeswalker that gives so much power to decks that rely on top decking.

Baby Jace I see it as a much worse Snapcaster Mage for Modern/Legacy in the sense that it doesn't provide you the same consistency and instant speed flexibility that Snappy gives you. In current Standard this days however baby Jace is a far superior card than Snap would be as there is much more sorcery speed cards, expensive-worse removal and the 2 mana difference of this two guys is very relevant, Snap is always 2 mana + spell mana.

[mrjumbo03]

Called it at €8.00. People may or may not like me, but I know my MTG markets :x

I remember you saying that you'll buy stacks of them. How many did you end up buying and have you unloaded it already?

Standard is pushing the price of this card. There's no way it'll hold after it rotates.

[phonics]

I remember you saying that you'll buy stacks of them. How many did you end up buying and have you unloaded it already?

Standard is pushing the price of this card. There's no way it'll hold after it rotates.

Origins was a pretty good set for speculation with cards like Abbot, Hangarback, and Jace among others that were extremely mispriced (400%+).

[Barook]

Origins was a pretty good set for speculation with cards like Abbot, Hangarback, and Jace among others that were extremely mispriced (400%+).
I wonder how much BFZ being a huge, steaming pile of shit played a role regarding the uptick of several "staples".

[easysantiago]

I remember you saying that you'll buy stacks of them. How many did you end up buying and have you unloaded it already?

Standard is pushing the price of this card. There's no way it'll hold after it rotates.

I second this question.

[Admiral_Arzar]

I wonder how much BFZ being a huge, steaming pile of shit played a role regarding the uptick of several "staples".

Bring to Light is helping to drive the price of Jace, VP I think. That deck runs 4 while incorporating the best cards from Khans (Rhino, Ojutai, etc.).

[dunk]

According to the guys on TheManaDrain this new Jace is way better than JTMS and is going to be a multiformat allstar.

[Quasim0ff]

According to the guys on TheManaDrain this new Jace is way better than JTMS and is going to be a multiformat allstar.

Link?

[HdH_Cthulhu]

The card is certainly not garbage but it is way too over-hyped and everyone is scared of missing the next JTMS or Liliana. People should put this in their minds - this card is not even close to the power level of this 2 cards. JTMS is a 4 mana planeswalker that if not answered almost imediatly wins you the match, Liliana is a 3 mana planeswalker that gives so much power to decks that rely on top decking.

So you say JTMS>Lili>BabyJace while also implying 2UU>1BB>1U.

You should put this in your mind - 1U is not even close to 2UU or 1BB!

[bruizar]

I remember you saying that you'll buy stacks of them. How many did you end up buying and have you unloaded it already?

Standard is pushing the price of this card. There's no way it'll hold after it rotates.

16 non foils at 8
4 foils at 25 but one canceled

[Quasim0ff]

So you say JTMS>Lili>BabyJace while also implying 2UU>1BB>1U.

You should put this in your mind - 1U is not even close to 2UU or 1BB!

Manacost isn't everything.

It's a regular looter until you can flip it.

[bruizar]

Manacost isn't everything.

It's a regular looter until you can flip it.

Yes you are right. Dig Through Time was banned. This is a delve 6 card. This means whenever Dig Through Time is castable, Jace is flippable. Mongoose has threshold and was played for years. This card requires 7 cards in the yard before it shines. Jace inevitably flips itself because it fills the yard and only needs 5 cards in the yard to be turned on. Tarmogoyf is 'turned on' just by playing the game. You don't have to go out of your way to make goyf big. Similar to these examples, Jace, Vryn's Prodigy's conditional part isn't all that conditional.

The biggest reason NOT to play Jace is because you don't have access to powerful sorceries or instants like Show and Tell /Intuition/Gifts Ungiven/Kolaghan's Command etcetera. You should view Jace as a Goblin Welder for spells, not as a slow Snapcaster Mage

[Quasim0ff]

Yes you are right. Dig Through Time was banned. This is a delve 6 card. This means whenever Dig Through Time is castable, Jace is flippable. Mongoose has threshold and was played for years. This card requires 7 cards in the yard before it shines. Jace inevitably flips itself because it fills the yard and only needs 5 cards in the yard to be turned on. Tarmogoyf is 'turned on' just by playing the game. You don't have to go out of your way to make goyf big. Similar to these examples, Jace, Vryn's Prodigy's conditional part isn't all that conditional.

The biggest reason NOT to play Jace is because you don't have access to powerful sorceries or instants like Show and Tell /Intuition/Gifts Ungiven/Kolaghan's Command etcetera. You should view Jace as a Goblin Welder for spells, not as a slow Snapcaster Mage

I agree with Jace being excellent, but I think he lost insanely much from the ban/restriction of Dig through Time.

I know he can flip (usually do so by turn 3 (t1 fetch >cantrip, removal, w.e, turn 2 fetch > jace, turn 3 loot + spell/land)), but until that he dies to REB, Swords, Bolt, Decay, Disfigure, Dismember.

he can be a value-play, certainly, but isn't as strong as neither jace, tms or liliana (after the ban. Better than both when you could play digs)

[bruizar]

I agree with Jace being excellent, but I think he lost insanely much from the ban/restriction of Dig through Time.

I know he can flip (usually do so by turn 3 (t1 fetch >cantrip, removal, w.e, turn 2 fetch > jace, turn 3 loot + spell/land)), but until that he dies to REB, Swords, Bolt, Decay, Disfigure, Dismember.

he can be a value-play, certainly, but isn't as strong as neither jace, tms or liliana (after the ban. Better than both when you could play digs)

This is true for most creatures. I believe that many people underestimate the power of Planeswalkers. An unanswered planeswalker wins games. The downside of Jace compared to other walkers is that it can be answered before you benefit from it, which would lead to card parity (still not a huge problem) due to summoning sickness. However, you get a lot back from it: an insanely powerful walker for only 2 mana that can run away if given a few turns unmolested. This is also true for JTMS, but paying 2:u::u: and getting it answered for :r: with Pyroblast is a -3 mana loss which hurts a lot more than a -1 mana loss. With Jace, you are much closer to mana parity if it gets answered. Imo, Jace should be played with cards like Burning Wish.

[keys]

According to the guys on TheManaDrain this new Jace is way better than JTMS and is going to be a multiformat allstar.

New Jace is better in Vintage than in Modern/Legacy because there are more instant/sorcery bombs, and less creature removal. It's much more likely to loot, flip and THEN actually have something broken to flashback (stuff like Gush with the alternate casting cost). Legacy/Modern care much more about the 2/1 body of Snapcaster.

Even still, there is a lot of talk about Jace in Vintage and not a lot of results. The hype right now is clearly due to Standard.

[dunk]

Link?

http://www.themanadrain.com/index.php?topic=47811.120

5 pages about new Jace in Vintage! I'd love to try it myself but it is not like it's easy to test for me right now.

Yeah results are the other thing. It is not like there are a lot of relevant Vintage tournaments, though. I also remain sceptical.

[H]

According to the guys on TheManaDrain this new Jace is way better than JTMS and is going to be a multiformat allstar.

More like two guys.


Link?

Here (http://www.themanadrain.com/index.php?topic=47811.msg667046#msg667046).


New Jace is better in Vintage than in Modern/Legacy because there are more instant/sorcery bombs, and less creature removal. It's much more likely to loot, flip and THEN actually have something broken to flashback (stuff like Gush with the alternate casting cost). Legacy/Modern care much more about the 2/1 body of Snapcaster.

Even still, there is a lot of talk about Jace in Vintage and not a lot of results. The hype right now is clearly due to Standard.

Yes, there is certainly less creature removal in Vintage, making a flip much more likely. I think the key here is that in Vintage, he is very close to a two mana and wait a turn Planeswalker, because there is less chance he'd be killed. Also, never discount the :1:X casting cost effect in Vintage, because this allows him to be played off a land and an off-color Mox (ahem, Dark Confidant). This makes him good in low mana decks (read: Gush) where the fact that his "Flashback" ability is very relevant in that it allows you to pay alternate costs. There is also a conspicuous lack of Abrupt Decays in Vintage right now, but this tend will probably not continue long. People saying he is better than Mindsculptor are definitely missing that baby Jace is only better in the Gush and low-mana combo decks he has been seen in. In Big Blue, there is zero doubt in my mind that Mindsculptor is still king.

What does this mean for Legacy? Well, these are not going to be givens in Legacy, since almost every deck starts with four Bolt, StP or Decay. He also is not a turn one play. Is he playable? Absolutely. Is he going to be a Legacy staple? I really don't think so.

[bruizar]

Just so you know, vintage has never had this much creature removal in its entire history.

[H]

Just so you know, vintage has never had this much creature removal in its entire history.

That is certainly true. There has been an incline in playing creature removal since Delver really started being played, to the "heights" we see know due to Mentor as well. I think people will once again be picking up BUG Fish, so there will be an even great push to play more removal.

Even so, there is nearly an order of magnitude of difference between the removal you'll see in Legacy compared to Vintage.

I left it out before, when discussing Mindsculptor and baby Jace's CMC, but there is a case where costing four mana is an actual benefit, that being Abrupt Decay, of course.

[bruizar]

In Vintage, repeal is also a problem for Jace. Regardless of monetary value or widespread diffusion/adoption, I think Jace ia a powerful role player. Just needs the right deck. Not as niche as Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas, but also not as ubiquitous say Liliana of the Veil.

[phonics]

People misjudge the new jace because too many people try to draw comparisons to snapcaster because they both flash things back, but personally I think he is quite different to snapcaster and to other planeswalkers. If I were to relate him to any other planeswalker I would say he is most similar to lotv in that it is a very grindy card. He isnt a game ender like jtms, and although he has to be built around to an extent, I dont think he is super strong in a niche deck built around him like tezzeret. New jace is like a thorn in the sides that just keeps on poking, it isn't an 'answer or die' card but unless opponents are far ahead it is something that they will have to begrudgingly answer before it buries them in the incremental advantages it accrues. I think I have said before that he is a lot like Dark Confidant in that he trades the raw power of card advantage for a more versatile package of abilities.

[ScottW]

In addition to the fact that print runs keep getting bigger, this card will likely be reprinted. I'll call this card being around $10 to $15 after rotation. It might still be good but standard wildly inflates prices - as we all know.

[H]

In addition to the fact that print runs keep getting bigger, this card will likely be reprinted. I'll call this card being around $10 to $15 after rotation. It might still be good but standard wildly inflates prices - as we all know.

While I agree that his price is certainly inflated by Standard and that he will not hold such value post rotation, I whole-hearted disagree about his reprintability. We've actually never seen a DFC get reprinted (small sample size, of course) probably due to the monetary factor of there needing to be a whole sheet of DFCs for it to make an monetary sense.

The only way I can see a reprint happening is if they decide to do a DFC theme in a Modern Masters. Not out of the question, but not particularly probable, in my opinion.

[bruizar]

assessment

+1

[warai]

People misjudge the new jace because too many people try to draw comparisons to snapcaster because they both flash things back, but personally I think he is quite different to snapcaster and to other planeswalkers. If I were to relate him to any other planeswalker I would say he is most similar to lotv in that it is a very grindy card. He isnt a game ender like jtms, and although he has to be built around to an extent, I dont think he is super strong in a niche deck built around him like tezzeret. New jace is like a thorn in the sides that just keeps on poking, it isn't an 'answer or die' card but unless opponents are far ahead it is something that they will have to begrudgingly answer before it buries them in the incremental advantages it accrues. I think I have said before that he is a lot like Dark Confidant in that he trades the raw power of card advantage for a more versatile package of abilities.

I disagree with you on the Dark Confidant comparison. Baby Jace will provide you a loot and then if it stays in battlefield will allow you to cast an instant or sorcery card, which is quite different from an extra card in your hand. Which other ability is relevant outside of the -3 sorcery speed flash for Modern and Legacy format?

[Sloshthedark]

http://www.themanadrain.com/index.php?topic=47811.120

5 pages about new Jace in Vintage! I'd love to try it myself but it is not like it's easy to test for me right now.

Yeah results are the other thing. It is not like there are a lot of relevant Vintage tournaments, though. I also remain sceptical.

played against it, the card looks quite strong in vintage but I doubt it will have notable impact in legacy

[Ellomdian]

Tinfoil hat time: I think a lot of hype is being generated about his playability in non-rotating formats to keep the Standard prices high. Nobody wants to buy into a (4-of, to be fair) staple that will rotate in a year for $50 a pop. But convince people it will retain some of that value based on Eternal hype...

It's funny when some of my local players talk about the Buzz surrounding Jace in Vintage as part of the reason why the price on him is durable. Like, there are more than enough Japanese foil Miscut Jaces to keep that crowd happy - they have little to no impact on the value of a card while it's in Standard.

I feel like it's overpriced in Standard right now, but when people think the best thing to be doing is casting a 5 mana, 5 color sorcery to get a Rhino, I have a hard time caring about the format. It's like the entire world turned into Johnnys...

[jrsthethird]

In addition to the fact that print runs keep getting bigger, this card will likely be reprinted. I'll call this card being around $10 to $15 after rotation. It might still be good but standard wildly inflates prices - as we all know.

Regardless of true Eternal formats and Standard, Jace is still a powerhouse in Modern, and there's no denying that Modern prices are a legitimate thing. At the least he'll settle around $50-60 due to Modern play (right where Snapcaster is now), but likely $70+, similar to LOTV. She's a mythic from the same set as SCM, so there's less copies floating around. Remember, while Innistrad was around with a smaller player base, it is also a first set in a three-set block (which is drafted for 9 months), while Magic Origins is a summer Core Set that's only drafted for 3 months. So the general supply of Origins is lesser, which counteracts the fact that there are more players now.


The only way I can see a reprint happening is if they decide to do a DFC theme in a Modern Masters. Not out of the question, but not particularly probable, in my opinion.

Not very probable at all. They'd have to wait at least a few years for this to even make sense; reprinting Standard cards in Modern Masters sets seems like a bad idea.

[tescrin]

I think I have said before that he is a lot like Dark Confidant in that he trades the raw power of card advantage for a more versatile package of abilities.

I think the problem is that he's like a *bad* Dark Confidant in a format that isn't running him much. Bob punching for 2 is quite relevant and the fact he can draw instant speed stuff rather than turn instant speed things into sorceries is quite relevant.

Even so, Blue doesn't run Bob usually between SFM and Snap being immediate and reliable CA. Bob's CA isn't as popular because it requires a turn to set up. Even then Bob does it *every turn* as opposed to a couple of turns. Being unable to impact the board, pressure the opponent, or reliably draw while also taking a turn to set up make it require significantly more powerful spells than Snap to get the flashback to be worth it.

The fact he is anti-synergistic with Burn (slow), Counterspells (sorcery speed ability), Equips (0 power for Jitte, lost mana if you flip), and at best is a 4-5 turn 2 for 1 (maybe 3 for 1) when you could've just Hymned, SFMd, Snap'd, or Lily'd; had your impact *now* and be potentially game ending.


I don't see the attraction in Legacy. A free card every three turns or an ultimate ability that typically will kill you faster than your opponents isn't that good. He seems straight *bad* compared to just Grim Lavamancer; who is a 1-drop that takes a turn; but can not only end games, but interact at instant speed and gain CA every turn it's allowed to; while being synergistic with the decks colors no matter where he is. And he sees no play.


This all changes when you get to a faster format with harder hitting spells; but getting the occasional recursed removal or Brainstorm just isn't enough when it's that unreliable. Don't forget that the chance of seeing Spirit of the Labyrinth will start going up again, since non-blue will be entering the fray with conviction after being shut out for a year.

[Lord Seth]

Regardless of true Eternal formats and Standard, Jace is still a powerhouse in Modern, and there's no denying that Modern prices are a legitimate thing.I'm not sure where you are getting the impression that Jace is a "powerhouse" in Modern. He isn't. He sees some play, but he's just not that big in the format.


At the least he'll settle around $50-60 due to Modern play (right where Snapcaster is now), but likely $70+, similar to LOTV. She's a mythic from the same set as SCM, so there's less copies floating around. Remember, while Innistrad was around with a smaller player base, it is also a first set in a three-set block (which is drafted for 9 months), while Magic Origins is a summer Core Set that's only drafted for 3 months. So the general supply of Origins is lesser, which counteracts the fact that there are more players now.The thing is, those cards you listed see substantially more play in Modern than Jace does. You're dramatically overstating how much play Jace sees in Modern. He isn't comparable to Snapcaster Mage or Liliana at all in terms of play.

[phonics]

I disagree with you on the Dark Confidant comparison. Baby Jace will provide you a loot and then if it stays in battlefield will allow you to cast an instant or sorcery card, which is quite different from an extra card in your hand. Which other ability is relevant outside of the -3 sorcery speed flash for Modern and Legacy format?


I think the problem is that he's like a *bad* Dark Confidant in a format that isn't running him much. Bob punching for 2 is quite relevant and the fact he can draw instant speed stuff rather than turn instant speed things into sorceries is quite relevant.

Even so, Blue doesn't run Bob usually between SFM and Snap being immediate and reliable CA. Bob's CA isn't as popular because it requires a turn to set up. Even then Bob does it *every turn* as opposed to a couple of turns. Being unable to impact the board, pressure the opponent, or reliably draw while also taking a turn to set up make it require significantly more powerful spells than Snap to get the flashback to be worth it.

The fact he is anti-synergistic with Burn (slow), Counterspells (sorcery speed ability), Equips (0 power for Jitte, lost mana if you flip), and at best is a 4-5 turn 2 for 1 (maybe 3 for 1) when you could've just Hymned, SFMd, Snap'd, or Lily'd; had your impact *now* and be potentially game ending.


I don't see the attraction in Legacy. A free card every three turns or an ultimate ability that typically will kill you faster than your opponents isn't that good. He seems straight *bad* compared to just Grim Lavamancer; who is a 1-drop that takes a turn; but can not only end games, but interact at instant speed and gain CA every turn it's allowed to; while being synergistic with the decks colors no matter where he is. And he sees no play.


This all changes when you get to a faster format with harder hitting spells; but getting the occasional recursed removal or Brainstorm just isn't enough when it's that unreliable. Don't forget that the chance of seeing Spirit of the Labyrinth will start going up again, since non-blue will be entering the fray with conviction after being shut out for a year.

Well first things first, dark confidant has a stronger ability of course, which is why it comes with a life loss clause. Jaces +1 ability is relevant against most decks, it a large portion of the anemic beats like delver, clique, ect and shrinks other fatties like goyf/angler/tasigur down significantly. I think most of the card choice you mentioned that you would run over jace wouldn't be in the same kind of deck, as they are all aggressive forms of CA. I think the jace would have to be put into a deck like landstill to be effective or some sort of dedicated control shell that has access to spells stronger than just cantrips.

[Quasim0ff]

The thing is, those cards you listed see substantially more play in Modern than Jace does. You're dramatically overstating how much play Jace sees in Modern. He isn't comparable to Snapcaster Mage or Liliana at all in terms of play.
As well as more Legacy and more vintage play than Jace does (At least SCM - Liliana is pretty weak at the moment, due to tokens)

Jace isn't as strong as SCM, even though he's insane with Gush.