Legacy Allies Revisited

[jrsthethird]

Remember that time that SCG did a deck tech on a Legacy Allies deck that made Top 32 at an Open in 2010?

http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/legacy/19972_Deck_Tech_Legacy_Allies_with_Audrey_Yanyuk.html

He had some lucky matchups, but I think it's a tribe that's worth exploring that plays differently to any other Tribal deck in Legacy. Notably, Lord effects work so much differently. Many Zendikar Allies have a +1/+1 counter ETB trigger, which means they get the boost permanently. Additionally, there are some new Allies in BFZ that have potential to improve on the 2010 list:

http://media.wizards.com/2015/bfz_8asdifk2Sk2cs/en_WpqHZBucqB.png

Savannah Lions is a classic WW creature that's been pretty much outclassed in the Modern era. What makes me think this might be good enough? Well, you'll notice that before BFZ, Hada Freeblade was the only 1-drop Ally. Some people who've experimented with the tribe in the past couple years have tried Champion of the Parish, which plays like an Ally and fits because most Allies are Humans too. Well, that changed with BFZ, so we can either focus more on Humans (making it more like D&T), or go all-in on the Ally plan. I want to give that a try.

http://media.wizards.com/2015/bfz_8asdifk2Sk2cs/en_dp9Gkfb1hF.png

He transforms into an Ally, which lets him pick up the Rally bonuses from the other Allies, and he also makes 2/2 Allies to get more Rally triggers. Seems good.

http://media.wizards.com/2015/bfz_8asdifk2Sk2cs/en_Zdn49g21QY.png

Talus Paladin was the Zendikar block lifelink Ally. He starts as a 3/4 and grows, but he also costs 4 mana and I'm not sure if we want that in our curve. Lantern Scout still gives 3 power, but at only 3 mana. Additionally, if we decide to run non-Ally creatures, the new BFZ Allies grant the bonus to all creatures, not just Allies.

http://media.wizards.com/2015/bfz_8asdifk2Sk2cs/en_pCTGWxdak3.png

I like the look of this on paper, but I'm not sure if we want to be spending 4 mana on an enchantment that doesn't have an immediate effect. It does give us more long-term reach with repeatable tokens and Ally triggers, or additional combat power when closing out the game. Great synergy with fetchlands.

http://media.wizards.com/2015/bfz_8asdifk2Sk2cs/en_Ofep9LePMi.png

The new Drana looks pretty badass. First, 2/3 flying, first strike eats Delvers for dinner. Second, in an aggressive deck, we will be attacking a lot. Drana makes attacking that much worse for our opponent. Her first strike means that if she goes unblocked (and she flies, so she probably will), she'll be putting +1/+1 counters on our whole team before the rest of our guys deal or receive combat damage.

http://media.wizards.com/2015/bfz_8asdifk2Sk2cs/en_iC4CbsAQkw.png

I really like this guy, but I don't know if he's good enough. If we get enough repeatable ways to make cheap tokens, his drain effect can get pretty nasty though.

http://media.wizards.com/2015/bfz_8asdifk2Sk2cs/en_5H8QWwA4cu.png

Munda is the Ally version of Goblin Ringleader. Well, not really. The base similarity is that we get to filter the top 4 cards and pick the creatures, sending the lands, extra Vials, and other chaff back. The difference is that Munda only lets us put it on top of the deck. The upside though, to Munda, is that he turns every Ally we cast into a pseudo-Ringleader. It actually more resembles Goblin Recruiter to me; we're just a Food Chain and Glimpse of Nature away from an Ally combo deck. But that's a different story. It's also a may ability, so if you need to dig for removal or something else, you don't need to filter.

http://media.wizards.com/2015/bfz_8asdifk2Sk2cs/en_x9DubgPjdm.png

This is such an interesting tribal land. No other tribe has something like this. Obviously, there's Cavern of Souls, but since most tribal decks are mono-colored, the main benefit is counter-shroud. We get an additional 5c land that plays all (or most) of our creatures, but the second ability is so much more useful. Later in the game, we'll be able to use our land to blank a removal spell, or to bounce an Envoy to get another ETB trigger.

What else can we play?

Lorwyn had the Changeling mechanic, which brought us classics like Mirror Entity, Chameleon Colossus, Mutavault, and Taurean Mauler. Mirror Entity is especially good, with all the +1/+1 counters going around. Mutavault also works interestingly well with Drana; the counters granted don't fall off the land so it keeps the boost permanently. Nameless Inversion is also an Ally card, which can be filtered for with Munda's Rally trigger.

Looking at Andrey's 2010 Abzan list, he only plays green for Oran-Rief Survivalist and Grip/Teeg from the board. Considering Munda, and the aggressive Akoum Battlesinger from Worldwake, I think we can drop the green and play a Mardu list. I think Bob is the only utility creature worth keeping at this point.

I'm going to just throw down an untested list as a starting point.

Creatures - 29
4 Hada Freeblade
4 Expedition Envoy
4 Akoum Battlesinger
4 Kazandu Blademaster
2 Dark Confidant
3 Lantern Scout
2 Kabira Evangel
2 Drana, Liberator of Malakir
2 Mirror Entity
1 Ranger of Eos
1 Munda, Ambush Leader

Planeswalker - 2
2 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar

Spells - 10
4 Aether Vial
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Swords to Plowshares

Lands - 19
4 Ally Encampment
3 Mutavault
3 Marsh Flats
3 Arid Mesa
3 Plateau
2 Scrubland
1 Plains

Thoughts?

[JPoJohnson]

I'm not liking the looks of allies in Legacy.

Other aggro decks out-value you with instant threats (Tarm) and easy control (Daze/StP/Bolt)

Control decks aren't scared of what you're doing and can easily out-value you with their control (Terminus, counters, removal)

Combo decks just win.

[rufus]

... thoughts?

They may look innocuous, but the only allies with any real potential to do something legacy level are still Akoum Battlesinger and Halimar Excavator because those are the only allies that are reasonably inexpensive ad scale faster than slivers. Specifically, they scale as the number of copies cubed. Kazuul Warlord also scales as the number of allies cubed, but his casting cost is a bit prohibitive.

There are also a couple of others - Ondu Cleric, Tajuru Archer, and Tuktuk Scapper - but those abilities are either conditional, or won't win you the game.

What do I mean by cubed? If you pop three Akoum Battlesingers into play all at once, they can do 3^3=27 points of damage from their abilities. If you hit 4 Exacavators you will mill for 4^3=64 cards in the library.

The other ally abilities tend to scale as the square of the number of allies at best - so they've got to do something interesting to be better than a second rate Muscle Sliver or third rate Lord of Atlantis.

Looking at the new set, the intriguing allies to me are:

-- Marginal Allies

Beastcaller Savant - because he has really good synergy with the Akoum Battlesinger - you can cast him for an ally trigger, and then tap him to smooth out odd mana turns, or you can drop him and then swing to realize the value of the battlesinger trigger. Because he can cost as little as net 1 mana, he's also decent with the Excavator.

Munda, Raid Leader is a decent finisher since he's got inevitablility. You could play him as a 1 or 2 of if you already had the core of a working Akoum Battlesinger deck.

Chasm Guide if you're playing with Balthor the Defiled or some other bulk reanimation plan.

Kalastria Healer and Zulaport Cutthroat scale with the square, and the cutthroat is good with sack effects in general. I don't like it for legacy, but the cutthroat fits in some modern decks, and they might make a core for standard allies.

... Also rans.

The Tajuru Beastmaster and Warcaller also scale as the cube, but aren't nearly fast enough.

March from the Tomb could work with Halimar Excavator, but rally the ancestors is probably better. (If you want to go the excavator reanimate route in legacy, you'll also want something like Coffin Purge to mitigate recycle effects.)

...

The easiest way to make an ally deck work is probably to pile a bunch of them into the graveyard and fire off a bulk reanimation effect like Living Death, but I think there are stronger decks that use the same concept.

[Daize]

Akoum.

A1, A2, A3.


A1 comes into play, status:
A1 +1
A2 comes into play, status:
A1 +2
A2 +1
A3 comes into play, status:
A1 +5
A2 +4
A3 +3

Total damage from their ETB triggers: +12.

That's not really cubed, dude. Or just tell us the intricate way in which you're planning to truly get them into play all at once ;-).

[ScatmanX]

return to the ranks . But it is tricky.

I don't think this deck has enough disruption or lock or card advantage to compete in legacy.
Modern though. ..

[rufus]

Akoum.
...

That's not really cubed, dude. Or just tell us the intricate way in which you're planning to truly get them into play all at once ;-).

You've got a minor math error - it should be
1: +1
2: +3,+2
3: +6,+5,+3

The bonus damage still cubic, just scaled smaller. For n battlesingers in series the net bonus power is equal to:

1/3 ((n+1)^3) - 1/2 ((n+1)^2) + 1/6(n+1) + 1



... Return to the ranks

I don't think this deck has enough disruption or lock or card advantage to compete in legacy.


IMO, Rally the Ancestors has more potential.

Though it's more tempo than control I honestly think the linear powerlevel is there: If WotC were silly enough to print 2 functional clones of the battlesinger, then something like 12 battlesingers, 12 clones, 4 force of will, 4 daze, 3 fireblast, 4 bolt, 4 chrome mox, lands would be a t3/t4 deck with counter and control elements.

[jrsthethird]

IMO, Rally the Ancestors has more potential.

Though it's more tempo than control I honestly think the linear powerlevel is there: If WotC were silly enough to print 2 functional clones of the battlesinger, then something like 12 battlesingers, 12 clones, 4 force of will, 4 daze, 3 fireblast, 4 bolt, 4 chrome mox, lands would be a t3/t4 deck with counter and control elements.

Still need a way to get them into the bin by turn 4.

[rufus]

Still need a way to get them into the bin by turn 4.

It's fast enough to just cast them.

An idealized on-the-play scenario:
T1: Chrome Mox, Volcanic Island, Battlesinger, swing for 2
T2: Mountain, Battlesinger/Clone, bolt your creature, swing for 6
T3: Scalding Tarn, Battlesinger/Clone, Fireblast your creature(s), swing for 12

Of course, that's a somewhat lucky draw, but it's really not outrageous.

[jrsthethird]

It's fast enough to just cast them.

An idealized on-the-play scenario:
T1: Chrome Mox, Volcanic Island, Battlesinger, swing for 2
T2: Mountain, Battlesinger/Clone, bolt your creature, swing for 6
T3: Scalding Tarn, Battlesinger/Clone, Fireblast your creature(s), swing for 12

Of course, that's a somewhat lucky draw, but it's really not outrageous.

True, but I was responding to the Rally/Ranks idea, you'd need to get them in the GY.

[rufus]

True, but I was responding to the Rally/Ranks idea, you'd need to get them in the GY.

True, but there are good ways to do that like Careful Study,Faithless Looting and Ideas Unbound. Since 3 simultaneous Battlesingers or 4 simultaneous Excavators are lethal, that could work if "simultaneous cloning" did. As it stands a decent 2 cc sac outlet ally to activate Zulaport Cutthroat would come close to making RGB reanimator allies possible.

(Shitty card creation interlude)
Something like this would be pretty close to ideal:
:1::r:
Deathray Derper
Human Ally
Haste
Sacrifice X creatures: Do X damage to target creature. You may only activate this ability only once per turn.
0/1

[MGB]

The only creature decks that are viable in Legacy are ones with disruption of some kind - whether blue-based countermagic, black-based discard, or white hate (tax effects, canonist effects, etc).

If you're just playing Dudes + Vial + spot removal, you're just playing a bad zoo deck, and zoo isn't even viable in Legacy anymore.