GP SeaTac

[Richard Cheese]

I find it really hard to believe there's not already a thread for this, but I couldn't seem to find one so here we go.

Who's going to be there?
What are you running?
What do you think the meta will look like?

Also I know a bunch of you guys live in the area, where my restaurant/attractions/booze/nightlife recommendations at?

[alphastryk]

Oh hey I was just looking for this.

I'll be there, on Miracles as usual.

[Whippoorwill]

There are a couple threads about it. No meetup/who's going thread though that I know of.

http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?28397-Grand-Prix-2015-Legacy-Dates

http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?29892-GP-SeaTac-Attendance-Cap

I'll be there, still undecided on what I'm playing, but leaning towards Miracles.

Not sure what the meta will look like.

I live in the general area, but I'm not into the nightlife scene. Though the Convention center is near the Theatre District and there are quite a few bars within a few blocks walking distance.

As for food, the places I'd recommend are MSM Deli (https://www.facebook.com/MSM-Deli-81746047858/) (about 8 mins driving), The Red Hot (http://www.redhottacoma.com/) (about 3 blocks from MSM Deli) & Frisko Freeze (https://www.facebook.com/Frisco-Freeze-184839174884771/timeline) (about 5 mins away). Those are places I've been to that others have recommended to me. I'll get MoxMonkey to chime in since he's more familiar with the area.

[.dk]

Yep yep, I'm in! Hopefully not as sick as last weekend. :)

/edit

Oh yeah, and I'm on Human Rebel Cleric Tribal of course

[nedleeds]

I'll be at the GP but I think the plan is to retreat to Seatown and avoid the granola of Tacoma.

A week out, I have byes, and have no idea what I'm going to sleeve up. I'm taking testing really seriously though and have a Land Equilibrium deck together for Legacy tonight.

[Admiral_Arzar]

I'll be at the GP but I think the plan is to retreat to Seatown and avoid the granola of Tacoma.

A week out, I have byes, and have no idea what I'm going to sleeve up. I'm taking testing really seriously though and have a Land Equilibrium deck together for Legacy tonight.

I'll be super disappointed if you don't play Moat Stompy.

I'll also be there, and I'll be summoning our lord and savior Marit Lage.

[danyul]

I'll be there on my usual. We should have a Source nerd meet up!

If any of yall arrive early (like days early), there will be two Legacy weekly events leading up to the GP that are definitely worth checking out. Payout is the same for both:
4-0 = $70
3-0-1 = $50
3-1 = $30
2-1-1 = $15??
All in store credit. You can also use this store credit in the restaurant so MTG Glory = Booze.

Card Kingdom (http://www.cardkingdom.com/static/storeinfo/events)
Mondays. Entry is $10. Starts at 6:30.

Mox Boarding House (http://www.moxboardinghouse.com/bellevue-events/)
Thursdays. Entry is $10. Starts at 7:00.

They are sister stores so gift cards are interchangeable. And both locations sell singles, board games, and food including booze. Both weekly events have been at or near capacity lately (64ish players) so if you wanna get in, you should get there early! All the most awesome Seattle wizards will be in attendance, so don't miss out!

I hope to see all of your NERDS there. I'll be the loud guy taking selfies with phazonmutant.

[MGB]

I'll be at the GP but I think the plan is to retreat to Seatown and avoid the granola of Tacoma.

A week out, I have byes, and have no idea what I'm going to sleeve up. I'm taking testing really seriously though and have a Land Equilibrium deck together for Legacy tonight.

Armageddon Stax!

[MoxMonkey]

I'll be at the GP but I think the plan is to retreat to Seatown and avoid the granola of Tacoma.

A week out, I have byes, and have no idea what I'm going to sleeve up. I'm taking testing really seriously though and have a Land Equilibrium deck together for Legacy tonight.

I'll have to find you sometime during the weekend. I have a small box of german stuffs for ya.

[Richard Cheese]

Well I'm going with my wife, and I've never been to Seattle or the PNW at all, which means I don't reeeeeeeally care about the GP very much. Still, I can't decide what to troll with play for the main event. My choices at this point are down to:

TinFins
Rocksteady (Siege Rhino Junk)
Bizarro Stormy (UR Storm)
Treefolk

TinFins is probably the strongest deck at a big event, but it's like a real deck now, and I'm generally terrible at combo.

Rocksteady has been my go-to for the last few locals and has felt pretty solid, even though last time I played it was with DTT legal. Turning dudes sideways is really my strong suit, but it's also slow and fairly boring/serious.

Bizarro Stormy is a thing I ran once at FNM and everyone laughed at me trying to resolve my own spells, which is pretty fun. Also it's got a transformational sideboard which I have a big dumb boner for. Mostly a terrible deck though.

Treefolk is probably the strongest contender right now, just because I've nearly finished converting all the actual Treefolk to Russian, and there's something I find oddly appealing about getting judges called for oracle wordings on Treefolk all day. I guess I'll see if those Bosk Bannerets get here before I leave next week. The biggest downsides are the fact that it's objectively awful, I have to actually remember what all the fucking Treefolk do, and that I don't have a SeaLab-related name for it yet. I've got it narrowed town to a few strong choices though.

[MoxMonkey]

There are a couple threads about it. No meetup/who's going thread though that I know of.

http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?28397-Grand-Prix-2015-Legacy-Dates

http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?29892-GP-SeaTac-Attendance-Cap

I'll be there, still undecided on what I'm playing, but leaning towards Miracles.

Not sure what the meta will look like.

I live in the general area, but I'm not into the nightlife scene. Though the Convention center is near the Theatre District and there are quite a few bars within a few blocks walking distance.

As for food, the places I'd recommend are MSM Deli (https://www.facebook.com/MSM-Deli-81746047858/) (about 8 mins driving), The Red Hot (http://www.redhottacoma.com/) (about 3 blocks from MSM Deli) & Frisko Freeze (https://www.facebook.com/Frisco-Freeze-184839174884771/timeline) (about 5 mins away). Those are places I've been to that others have recommended to me. I'll get MoxMonkey to chime in since he's more familiar with the area.

Yeah theres planty of decent places close by. jimmy johns, harmons brewery, than bros. pho, afew decent bars for drinks. a trolly can take you to freighthouse which is like a food court setup. but thats only if you have time.

I won't be in the main event, so if anyone want to EDH some, come find me.
http://i1289.photobucket.com/albums/b508/juzam007/12144089_917391698326539_1888767174_n2_zpsilz5cyh5.jpg (http://s1289.photobucket.com/user/juzam007/media/12144089_917391698326539_1888767174_n2_zpsilz5cyh5.jpg.html)

[Koby]

Still, I can't decide what to troll with play for the main event.

Turbo Troll Tribal.
With Rancor.

Not even Supreme Verdict can stop these basement dwellers.

[ESG]

I find it really hard to believe there's not already a thread for this, but I couldn't seem to find one so here we go.

Who's going to be there?
What are you running?
What do you think the meta will look like?

Also I know a bunch of you guys live in the area, where my restaurant/attractions/booze/nightlife recommendations at?

1) I'll be there.
2) Dunno what I'm running. Likely either my standbys BUG Delver or Enchantress, but possibly a new brew.
3) The field should be very open, with more than a few Burn decks and Modern ports in the lower rounds. I'm coming in with byes, so I expect to see a greater percentage of blue from Round 3 on, though less blue than if Dig had been spared. Stoneforge strategies are currently very popular here, and Infect has been on the rise. Mentor Miracles is probably the deck to beat, but there are competent longtime players repping almost every archetype, so you could very well run into something like Painter or Aluren in the X-0 bracket after half of Day 1.

4) I live in Seattle now. I lived in Tacoma for a few years in the mid-'00s, and there wasn't much nightlife there. I defer to whomever lives in that area now. I recommend making the drive to Seattle at least one day or evening during your trip because your options increase a thousandfold. The drive is a nontrivial 45 minutes (and longer with traffic), so plan accordingly. If you are coming in a day or two early or heading back a day or two after the GP, you'll have plenty of time to see and do a lot. Phazonmutant would probably have the best recommendations for booze. Clearly you should participate in the bounty of Card Kingdom in Ballard and Mox Boarding House in Bellevue, but I'll recommend some other, non-Magic stuff, and maybe others can pitch in on food recommendations.

In general, in terms of food, booze, and entertainment options, Capitol Hill and Downtown will give you the most flexibility.


RECORD STORES

Everyday Music on Capitol Hill has probably the best and largest selection of CDs. There are dozens of bars and restaurants on Capitol Hill, so you can wander a short distance and stop in anywhere that catches your eye.

Hours: 10 a.m. to 10 p.m. daily

1520 10th Ave.
Seattle WA 98122
206.568.3321


Sonic Boom Records

Another good independent store. This one is only seven or eight blocks from Card Kingdom in Ballard.

Hours:
10 a.m. to 10 p.m. every day except for Sunday, which is 10 a.m. to 7 p.m.

2209 NW Market St, Seattle, WA 98107
Phone:(206) 297-2666


Bop Street Records

This is basically across the street from Sonic Boom in Ballard and has the biggest selection of actual records.

Address: 2220 NW Market St, Seattle, WA 98107
Phone: (206) 297-2232
Hours:
Thursday 12:00 – 10:00 PM
Friday 12:00 – 10:00 PM
Saturday 12:00 – 10:00 PM
Sunday 12:00 – 5:00 PM
Monday Closed
Tuesday 12:00 – 8:00 PM
Wednesday 12:00 – 8:00 PM


LIVE MUSIC

Thursday, Nov. 5:

*Luna are playing their first tour in 10 years and will be at the Showbox. There are two Showboxes (SoDo and the Market); I believe this show is held at the Market location, which is downtown and not far from Pike Place Market.
www.showboxpresents.com/events/detail/281199


Friday, Nov. 6:

*Lemolo are having their album-release show at the Crocodile in Belltown.
www.thecrocodile.com/listing

*There's an '80s/'90s Homecoming-themed event at Neumos on Capitol Hill.
http://neumos.com/event/rapture-80s90s-homecoming-edition

*Also on Capitol Hill, the Highline hosts lots of punk and hardcore bands:
www.highlineseattle.com/calendar


Saturday, Nov. 7:
*Ghostland Observatory are playing at Showbox SoDo, which is near Safeco Field.
www.showboxpresents.com/events/detail/292035


IMPROV

The crew at Jet City Improv have a good track record for quick wit and creativity, and I've seen four or five shows there. All were good. Here are some of their current promising offerings:

Thursday:
www.jetcityimprov.org/shows/black-flag

Friday:
http://www.jetcityimprov.org/shows/worst-trip-ever-in-all-caps


MUSEUMS

The EMP/Experience Music Project is pretty cool. The architecture of the building itself is flat-out amazing.
http://www.empmuseum.org
Hours: 10-5 daily

[Dice_Box]

I'll also be there, and I'll be summoning our lord and savior Marit Lage.
Good luck to you. Kick some Shardless ass. (Totally unbiased opinion...)

[Richard Cheese]

Isn't there a train that runs between Tacoma/Seattle? I thought it was only like $5 each way, which isn't too bad.

For those not planning on renting a car, how are you getting from the airport to your hotel?

[danyul]

Isn't there a train that runs between Tacoma/Seattle? I thought it was only like $5 each way, which isn't too bad.

For those not planning on renting a car, how are you getting from the airport to your hotel?

Light Rail:
http://www.soundtransit.org/link

Sounder Train:
http://www.soundtransit.org/sounder

A nice overview of public transit in the Seattle area:
http://www.tripadvisor.com/Travel-g60878-s303/Seattle:Washington:Public.Transportation.html

I've only ever used the buses and the Light Rail. Note that the Light Rail stops at SeaTac airport but won't get you all the way down to Tacoma proper where the event will be held. We also have Uber and Lyft drivers out and about almost all the time if that's your thing.

[MoxMonkey]

Isn't there a train that runs between Tacoma/Seattle? I thought it was only like $5 each way, which isn't too bad.

For those not planning on renting a car, how are you getting from the airport to your hotel?

The sounder only runs during the weekday. Weekends only if there is a game (sounders, sehawks or mariners)

[Richard Cheese]

The sounder only runs during the weekday. Weekends only if there is a game (sounders, sehawks or mariners)

Well shit. I was just going to ask why there were no trains running today until after 4:00pm. So let me see if I've got this straight:

It looks like there's a bus (594) that runs between UW campus and downtown Seattle and takes about an hour, and runs until 11:45pm. I would need a multi-county fare ($3.50), which requires either exact change, or an ORCA card that I can get at a light rail station and reload?

At the end of the day, if Google maps transit directions are accurate, I think we should be fine.

[MoxMonkey]

Well shit. I was just going to ask why there were no trains running today until after 4:00pm. So let me see if I've got this straight:

It looks like there's a bus (594) that runs between UW campus and downtown Seattle and takes about an hour, and runs until 11:45pm. I would need a multi-county fare ($3.50), which requires either exact change, or an ORCA card that I can get at a light rail station and reload?

At the end of the day, if Google maps transit directions are accurate, I think we should be fine.

The 594 will drop you off at the t-dome station. go up one street to the trolly. That will take you to the site and free to ride.

[Richard Cheese]

The 594 will drop you off at the t-dome station. go up one street to the trolly. That will take you to the site and free to ride.

We're staying in Tacoma (which was probably a mistake in hindsight), so I'm mostly trying to figure out how we're getting to Seattle for most of the days. Bus is pretty doable. I'm just assuming that because it's Seattle, the bus will be pretty nice and have things like free WiFi and mustache wax.

[MoxMonkey]

We're staying in Tacoma (which was probably a mistake in hindsight), so I'm mostly trying to figure out how we're getting to Seattle for most of the days. Bus is pretty doable. I'm just assuming that because it's Seattle, the bus will be pretty nice and have things like free WiFi and mustache wax.

It isn't too bad. Thats how I go to seattle all the time. if your in seattle and miss the 594, the 590 takes you to the same spot. if your eating in downtown seattle I can recommend a few different awesome places.

[warfordium]

coming from Canada.
rocking the OG Source playmat.






I"M PLAYING DREDGE













just kidding (kinda)—I'm playing Lands. but I'll probably be wishing I was playing TinFins when I'm 1-1-1 after 3 rounds…

[Parcher]

The Unicorns will be making our decennial trek to Puget Sound. I expect to hit Bruno's in town Friday night(Rouladen looks black penis), but we would appreciate lunch ideas for Seattle proper Friday afternoon. The less hipsters, and more hot man-ass the better. Oh, and.....




I"M PLAYING DREDGE

[ESG]

The Caribbean joint Paseo has maintained 4.5 stars out of 5 on Yelp for more than 4,000 ratings, so it's probably a destination at this point. The Paseo Press is the most raved-about item. If you get a sandwich, know that it will be ridiculously juicy and messy, so bring some wet-naps.

www.paseoseattle.com

Address: 4225 Fremont Ave N, Seattle, WA 98103

Phone:(206) 545-7440

Hours:
Friday 11:00 AM – 9:00 PM
Saturday 11:00 AM – 8:00 PM
Sunday 11:00 AM – 6:00 PM
Monday Closed
Tuesday 11:00 AM – 9:00 PM
Wednesday 11:00 AM – 9:00 PM
Thursday 11:00 AM – 9:00 PM



Homegrown is a high-quality sandwich, salad, and soup place. The seasonal special right now is the Mt. Townsend Grilled Cheese: Mt. Townsend cirrus camembert, Mustard and Co. classic mustard, organic Asian pear, and caramelized onions. The mustard has a bracing zing to it. Lots of locations to choose from.

www.eathomegrown.com/menu

Capitol Hill (Melrose Market)
1531 Melrose Ave, Seattle, WA 98122
206.682.0935 8am - 8pm, Mon-Sun

Downtown Seattle
999 3rd Ave Seattle, WA 98104
206.624.1329 7am - 6pm, Mon-Fri

Fremont
3416 Fremont Ave N, Seattle, WA 98103
206.453.5232 8am - 8pm, Mon-Sun

South Lake Union
208 Westlake Ave N Seattle, WA 98109
206.467.5391 7am - 8pm, Mon - Sun

Queen Anne
2201 Queen Anne Ave N, Seattle, WA 98119
206.217.4745 8am - 8pm, Mon-Sun



I don't eat sushi, but I have a friend who loves sushi and has probably been to every sushi restaurant in Seattle, and she swears by Chiso.

www.chisofremont.com/menu.htm

3520 Fremont Ave. N.
Seattle, Washington 98103

Phone: 206-632-3430



Red Mill is a popular burger spot. If you go, I recommend the boysenberry milkshake.

www.redmillburgers.com

Interbay
1613 W Dravus St
(206) 284-6363

Phinney Ridge
312 North 67th St
(206) 783-6362



4649 is a tasty Japanese restaurant that I believe is renaming itself Yoroshiku. The old sign is still up on the building, though.
http://yoroshikuseattle.com/index.html

1913 North 45th Street, Seattle

Lunch
Tue–Sun: 11:30am–2pm

Dinner
Tue–Thu: 5–9:30pm
Fri-Sat: 5–10:30pm
Sun: 5–9pm

Happy Hour
Tue–Sat: 5–6:30pm

Closed Monday


Whole Foods is a truly outstanding grocery store with an impressive grab-and-go section. I highly recommend it.

South Lake Union store
2210 Westlake Ave
Seattle, WA 98121
Phone: 206.621.9700
Hours 7 a.m. to 10 p.m.


Roosevelt Square (University District store)
1026 NE 64th Street
Seattle, WA 98115
Phone: 206.985.1500
Hours: 7 a.m. to 10 p.m.


There will be tons of restaurants wherever you happen to be in Seattle, so I think you would also get good results from just pulling out your phone and seeing what's near you at the moment and highly rated on Yelp. Anything 4 stars or higher with more than 200 ratings is usually going to be good.

[Richard Cheese]

Paseo looks pretty rad. I think mostly I'm going to try and consume as much fresh seafood as possible since I don't get a ton of it here in Denver.

Is there a quintessential Seattle dish/cuisine?

[nedleeds]

Paseo looks pretty rad. I think mostly I'm going to try and consume as much fresh seafood as possible since I don't get a ton of it here in Denver.

Is there a quintessential Seattle dish/cuisine?

Angst?

[danyul]

Paseo looks pretty rad. I think mostly I'm going to try and consume as much fresh seafood as possible since I don't get a ton of it here in Denver.

Is there a quintessential Seattle dish/cuisine?

If you're hitting up the bar/nightlife scene in Capitol Hill or somewhere downtown, the Seattle dogs are super popular. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seattle-style_hot_dog

We also have a bunch of excellent food trucks. You can track them all here: http://www.seattlefoodtruck.com/

TBH, the quintessential Seattle dish is just a takeout order of chicken teriyaki from one of the many, many teriyaki joints run by a tired Korean lady wearing patterned sweatpants. We try to pretend we are foodies but we like eating meals out of styrofoam containers as much as anybody else.

[barcode]

Definitely attending. I'm solid on my 75 cards already.

I'll be playing mono non foils except at the dredge side event(s) where I'll be playing mono-foils.

[MoxMonkey]

Paseo looks pretty rad. I think mostly I'm going to try and consume as much fresh seafood as possible since I don't get a ton of it here in Denver.

Is there a quintessential Seattle dish/cuisine?

Hit pike place then. Theres quite afew smaller places you can sample everything.

[MoxMonkey]

I'm a huge fan of the tap house grill. It's on 5th next to nike town.

http://i1289.photobucket.com/albums/b508/juzam007/download_zpsvqplw1bh.jpg (http://s1289.photobucket.com/user/juzam007/media/download_zpsvqplw1bh.jpg.html)

[thecrav]

<300 pre-reg spots left (https://twitter.com/cascadegamesllc/status/660256531988942852)

[Plague Sliver]

Coming from Beijing. See you guys there.

#WouldPlayDredgeIfIKnewHowToPlayDredge

[nedleeds]

<300 pre-reg spots left (https://twitter.com/cascadegamesllc/status/660256531988942852)

If only you could scalp them. So we're a week out, I would bank on it selling it out. The playmat probably makes it a free roll anyway, assuming you get it signed. It's not a free roll if you burn the playmat and throw the hot melted rubber on Greg's leg.

[Richard Cheese]

If you are going and have Russian Wickerbough Elders...PM me.

[warfordium]

The playmat probably makes it a free roll anyway, assuming you get it signed.

I truly believe is the value of the playmat and promo foil that is helping push the entrance fees ever-upwards. as long as these things are shippable, so be it?

[sdematt]

I'll be there, representing shirt and tie mode.

[(nameless one)]

The Unicorns will be making our decennial trek to Puget Sound. I expect to hit Bruno's in town Friday night(Rouladen looks black penis), but we would appreciate lunch ideas for Seattle proper Friday afternoon. The less hipsters, and more hot man-ass the better. Oh, and.....




I"M PLAYING DREDGE

I like this man's balls

[Parcher]

I like this man's balls

You should see my dick.

[Richard Cheese]

You should see my dick.

I'm just assuming everyone who wants to will get the opportunity this weekend.




On a related note, I'm seeing the following breweries nearby:

Wingman Brewers
Odd Otter
Pacific Brewing and Malting
Tacoma Brewing Co.
Harmon Tap Room

Anyone want to chime in on any of those? Also, pub crawl? We can start it mid-day on Saturday and call it the scrub-crawl.

[Koby]

We can start it mid-day on Saturday and call it the scrub-crawl.

*slowclap*

[nedleeds]

Confirmed that we are crashing Mox Boarding House on Thursday.

Come at me.

[danyul]

I usually get there around 5:30ish. Let's grab a beer.

[nedleeds]

I usually get there around 5:30ish. Let's grab a beer.

Greg is muling us around Seattle. I'll be 3 hours behind you guys, and I'm old, so I may fall asleep in the 2nd round if I drink too many beers.

I'm bringing the following piles

The Painful Truth about Vaevictis Asmadi
Dark Enchantress II: Electric Boogaloo
Men on the Moon, a Jesse the Mind Production

[Richard Cheese]

Greg is muling us around Seattle. I'll be 3 hours behind you guys, and I'm old, so I may fall asleep in the 2nd round if I drink too many beers.

I'm bringing the following piles

The Painful Truth about Vaevictis Asmadi
Dark Enchantress II: Electric Boogaloo
Men on the Moon, a Jesse the Mind Production

http://jolstatic.fr/www/captures/721/5/24045.jpg
Why does he look like he's about to explain his gluten intolerance to a disinterested Applebees waitress?

[nedleeds]

http://jolstatic.fr/www/captures/721/5/24045.jpg
Why does he look like he's about to explain his gluten intolerance to a disinterested Applebees waitress?

Close, he is in fact the only lactose intolerant Elder Dragon. The painful truth about him is somebody replaced his soy milk with heavy cream. Now he's ready to explode onto Mox Boarding House.

[danyul]

lactose intolerant Elder Dragon.

Trigger warning: this is what the mean kids used to call me in high school.

[Curby]

For the over-preparers (or just those that don't want to get a game loss for incorrectly scrawling their decklist down on Saturday morning):

Deck Registration Sheet (Editable PDF Form) (http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/magic-fundamentals/magic-general/640738-deck-registration-sheet-editable-pdf-form)
Consent and Release (Editable PDF Form) (http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/magic-fundamentals/magic-general/645816-wotc-consent-and-release-editable-pdf-form)

[nedleeds]

For the over-preparers (or just those that don't want to get a game loss for incorrectly scrawling their decklist down on Saturday morning):

Deck Registration Sheet (Editable PDF Form) (http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/magic-fundamentals/magic-general/640738-deck-registration-sheet-editable-pdf-form)
Consent and Release (Editable PDF Form) (http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/magic-fundamentals/magic-general/645816-wotc-consent-and-release-editable-pdf-form)

Filling out three lists and randomly choosing one also adds some excitement to Saturday morning.

[phazonmutant]

I'll be at Mox Boarding House on Thursday with #teamtusk, come at me. Vintage Friday, and of course the GP. Pick up games of vintage or Old School welcome.

Beverage:
The only remotely palatable place that's open late in Tacoma that I'm aware of is The Matador. Their late-night happy hour nachos will feed a family of orcas. Fortunately it's less than a 15 minute walk from the convention center: https://goo.gl/maps/bH9LsGBeF632
Pacific Brewing is nearby too, but neither its food nor its beer is exciting.

For Seatle, there are a couple beer destination spots:
Stumbling Monk in Capitol Hill has domestic and Belgian imports, specializing in sours. https://goo.gl/maps/Hk4qiCCnYKR2
Close by to it is a ton of food you can bring in, but I'd recommend Kedai Makan for delicious Malaysian street food. https://goo.gl/maps/2wVaVtUdsc32

Triumph Bar next to the Seattle Center has insanely good cocktails (I particularly recommend the gin and tonic), a wide cheese and charcuterie selection, and other tasty gastropub items. mac and cheese (with crab!) is my favorite. Bonus, comped parking and you can explore the Seattle Center after. https://goo.gl/maps/w4RBidwdAt22

Uber Tavern is one of the best beer bars in Seattle. Across the street is a great scotch bar, St. Andrews. Wide selection. https://goo.gl/maps/s7iStkju2Ck

Chuck's Hop Shop has a huge number of taps and bottles, I think the most in one location in Seattle. https://goo.gl/maps/v5EGTXmHMCx

If you want to go on a brewery crawl, I'd recommend Ballard. Start at Reuben's (https://goo.gl/maps/yBxbiPuz1ux) and circle out from there. There's over 40 breweries in Ballard alone (although most don't have taprooms), so you can practically stumble door to door.

Food:
BBQ - Bitterroot. I think best burger in Seattle, and big whiskey selection. Not up to Southern quality bbq but decent. https://goo.gl/maps/VgecVY5doaS2
Sushi - I've heard a few different takes for the best. Shiro's in Belltown (https://goo.gl/maps/Kvdrw5KHaFz), Musashi's in Wallingford (https://goo.gl/maps/ycHDkxvJT4J2), and Nishino near the Arboretum (https://goo.gl/maps/kn54rawzs852). All are expensive and will have long waits.
Taiwanese - Din Tai Fung in U Village has insane dumplings, and it's one of the 2 or 3 locations in the US. https://goo.gl/maps/6p3tJYzHpKA2
Thai - pick a spot at random in Seattle. It probably has a Thai place and it's probably decent.

If it wasn't obvious, Seattle has a lot of Asian food. It's pretty much Asian or gastropub.

[thecrav]

Filling out three lists and randomly choosing one also adds some excitement to Saturday morning.

Bring all three, shuffle them together, hand a random one to a judge. Call a judge at the start of round 1 to ask what deck to take out of your bag.

[Richard Cheese]

Trigger warning: this is what the mean kids used to call me in high school.

Damnit, you're making me want to figure out how to get up to Bellevue from my dumb Tacoma hotel Thursday night.

Also I guess I should figure out what deck to play.

[danyul]

The event fires at 7. However, I'd plan to show up a little early since I expect this one to hit the cap. What that cap is, I have no clue. I'm gonna assume 64 or 72. We had 50 people show up last week.

[VsTheWorld]

The event fires at 7. However, I'd plan to show up a little early since I expect this one to hit the cap. What that cap is, I have no clue. I'm gonna assume 64 or 72. We had 50 people show up last week.

Is there a reliable way to get there on public transit from the Pike Place area? Sounds like a sweet deal.

[danyul]

Is there a reliable way to get there on public transit from the Pike Place area? Sounds like a sweet deal.

Back in my college days I would use http://tripplanner.kingcounty.gov to plan my bus trips. But these days I just pull up my Google Maps app and tap the little bus icon. That's always been really accurate for when I need to plan some bus action.

And yes I just checked and there are several options. However, all of them will take you like an hour at least. Getting around this metro area is a legit pain in the ass sometimes.

[nedleeds]

Bus in Seattle kicks ass. I made it from Greg's old apartment to Card Kingdom via bus without ever

a) smelling the stench of piss
b) being asked for money other than my fare by the actual driver
c) being called a racial slur

[Richard Cheese]

The event fires at 7. However, I'd plan to show up a little early since I expect this one to hit the cap. What that cap is, I have no clue. I'm gonna assume 64 or 72. We had 50 people show up last week.

If I show up, it will just be to say hi and grab some beers, since my wife would also likely be with me. Is there anything else worth seeing/doing in Bellevue if we make the trip?

[phazonmutant]

If I show up, it will just be to say hi and grab some beers, since my wife would also likely be with me. Is there anything else worth seeing/doing in Bellevue if we make the trip?

No.


Fine...there's tasty Indian food and Korean BBQ. Also close by is Redmond, home of Microsoft, if seeing corporate office parks gets your juices flowing. There is a bouldering gym that might appeal to you Boulderians.

[danyul]

Bus in Seattle kicks ass. I made it from Greg's old apartment to Card Kingdom via bus without ever

a) smelling the stench of piss
b) being asked for money other than my fare by the actual driver
c) being called a racial slur

Haha that's fairly accurate if you stay in Seattle. But bussing through the geography between Tacoma and Seattle may occasionally result in A or B. I've never had C happen. On a bus anyway.


If I show up, it will just be to say hi and grab some beers, since my wife would also likely be with me. Is there anything else worth seeing/doing in Bellevue if we make the trip?

The Bellevue night life has always been too rich for my blood. But Downtown Bellevue has a huge mall and a bunch of nice restaurants and stores around that mall area. It's one of the richest parts of the Seattle area, I'd say. If you're planning to spend the entire day in Bellevue and you aren't into shopping, then I dunno what there is to do. Seattle is more interesting for a day trip. But if you just wanna hang out at Mox Boarding House for awhile before leaving to do couple things, then The Parlor is a classy place to get drinks and food. They also have billiards and a comedy room where touring acts come through. http://parlorlive.com

The same complex has a Lucky Strike (http://www.bowlluckystrike.com/locations/bellevue/). I've never been because I'm a dork and don't do clubs but I've been told it's like a grown up night club + bowling. They have drinks and food and stuff. Both this joint and The Parlor have dress codes so you can't show up looking like a scrub. I was actually once denied entrance to The Parlor because I was wearing sweat shorts and had sunburned legs.

On that same city block you can find a bunch of nice restaurants and fancy spots to spend money.

http://hyatt.com/mt/bellevueregency.hyatt.com/en/hotel/activities.html

http://www.visitbellevuewashington.com/things-to-do/attractions/

[nedleeds]

Near Cafe Mox / Card Kingdom I experienced my first Coffee House / UPS Store hybrid. You could sit and drink coffee, and write a letter, then you could mail it and get another coffee.

[square_two]

I usually get there around 5:30ish. Let's grab a beer.

A friend and I are flying in from Arkansas tomorrow, we will try to get to Mox in time to do Legacy. I'd be happy to meet up and down a beer as well :smile:


Who's going to be there?
What are you running?
What do you think the meta will look like?

I'll be running Elves! which is my first foray into Legacy. Really only my second actual Legacy tournament so I'm not expecting much except to get a lot of experience. Hoping it will be an advantageous meta for my little green guys.

[Plague Sliver]

See you guys at Mox Bellevue tomorrow.

[danyul]

A friend and I are flying in from Arkansas tomorrow, we will try to get to Mox in time to do Legacy. I'd be happy to meet up and down a beer as well :smile:


Sounds like a plan!

Heads up: I talked to the TO for MBH and he said the player cap for Thursday should be around 100. If we cap that event, I'll eat my shoe. Or at least lick it or something. Actually eating shoes sounds terrible. TLDR - There's no need to worry about this capping! Any and all attendees should be able to play.

[Plague Sliver]

How about...I lick your shoe?

#TakingOneForTheTeam
#NoHomo

[danyul]

I ain't even mad tho.

See y'all Thursday!

[MGB]

Bus in Seattle kicks ass. I made it from Greg's old apartment to Card Kingdom via bus without ever

a) smelling the stench of piss
b) being asked for money other than my fare by the actual driver
c) being called a racial slur

Are all three of these common occurrences elsewhere in the United States when riding a bus? I haven't been on a bus in ages.

[nonbasicland]

Flying in from Chicago late Thursday. At least 8 of us from the local scene are making the trip. Looking forward to grabbing some amazing seafood at Walrus and the Carpenter friday night in Ballard.

I'll be playing Strawberry Shortcake. If I'm not resolving Blood Moon on Turn 1, I hope to combo out on Turn 2.

[Brujah]

Does anyone know what time the artists will be there on Saturday?

Sent from my XT1049 using Tapatalk

[phazonmutant]

Are all three of these common occurrences elsewhere in the United States when riding a bus? I haven't been on a bus in ages.

They are in Atlanta. Public transit there was always entertaining, and I took it fairly often.


Flying in from Chicago late Thursday. At least 8 of us from the local scene are making the trip. Looking forward to grabbing some amazing seafood at Walrus and the Carpenter friday night in Ballard.

I'll be playing Strawberry Shortcake. If I'm not resolving Blood Moon on Turn 1, I hope to combo out on Turn 2.

Oh man I've never been there. It's supposed to be great. Lines are usually huge though.

[VsTheWorld]

Sounds like a plan!

Heads up: I talked to the TO for MBH and he said the player cap for Thursday should be around 100. If we cap that event, I'll eat my shoe. Or at least lick it or something. Actually eating shoes sounds terrible. TLDR - There's no need to worry about this capping! Any and all attendees should be able to play.

Hour long bus rides be damned, I'll be there early for this one. How late do the busses back to Seattle run? Might need to bum a ride if the event goes on forever.

[danyul]

From the Eastside (Bellevue area), buses usually stop running around midnight (I could totally be wrong here as I usually bus during commuting hours). Also, Mox Boarding House is located slightly off the main bus line so it might be even harder to bus back. I do know that there will be quite a few Seattle people in attendance so perhaps you can hitch a ride back. The event usually ends around 10:30-11. If you are super out of luck, I'd be happy to drive you to a Park & Ride where you can catch one of the late mainline buses. I live near MBH, otherwise I'd offer to drive you back to Seattle myself!

[Richard Cheese]

Got some mail today, you bitches might be in trouble.

http://i.imgur.com/aXHbSDS.jpg

[Allcoin]

I'll be making the trek to MBH tomorrow night, will be playing netdeck grixis with a Mario playmat, will be there with my roommate(using the notorious BOB BOLT playmat) and a few other guys from the north end (Edmonds/Everett area)

Staying down at EQC for the GP. See you all tomorrow and this weekend.

[Whippoorwill]

Does anyone know what time the artists will be there on Saturday?

https://twitter.com/cascadegamesllc/status/662087640552898560

[alaska]

Not sure if this is the place to ask, but:

Does anyone driving from Seattle to Tacoma Saturday morning have room for an extra passenger?

Trying to avoid the hour and twenty minute bus ride. I live in the Capitol Hill area on Pike but I'm willing to meet up wherever you are leaving from.

If you play at Card Kingdom you've probably seen me.

[Seraphix]

Got some mail today, you bitches might be in trouble.

TREEFOLK



Indomitable Ancients or go home.

[Richard Cheese]

Indomitable Ancients or go home.

B... But I just got here!

[JBlaze]

Got some mail today, you bitches might be in trouble.

http://i.imgur.com/aXHbSDS.jpg


Oh man are we gonna get to see Russian tree folk beats at the GP?

[MoxMonkey]

Hour long bus rides be damned, I'll be there early for this one. How late do the busses back to Seattle run? Might need to bum a ride if the event goes on forever.

Around 11pm is the last bus to seattle.

[danyul]

http://i.imgur.com/C5gNrDW.jpg

I just got to Mox Boarding House. If you're wandering around looking for parking, this handy guide may prove useful.

Edit: omg. How do I shrink that picture!?

Edit2: ok I'm doing this all on my phone. I changed the pic to a direct link. It's a parking guide they hand out at the store.

[Allcoin]

Well I'm running super later to MBH, Let's hope 405 doesn't take too long tonight

[Barook]

When is the coverage supposed to start?

[danyul]

Unfortunately, there's no coverage for this event. This is the Mox Boarding House weekly. Only the Card Kingdom weekly has coverage right now. But the Mox people are trying to amend that.

115 players tonight. Fuck!

[ESG]

115 players tonight.

Wow! That's about three times the weekly average and likely close to the tournament room's capacity. Wish I could've been there to battle and hobnob, but I'll see y'all at the GP.

[lordofthepit]

118 players at the MBH Legacy weekly. Plus 27 Modern players makes for a cramped room.

[Richard Cheese]

Thoughts after my first 8 hours:

1. Real damp.
2. What's that smell?

[danyul]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aroma_of_Tacoma

Yeah. It is what it is. Tacoma has a rep all its own.

[jandax]

I read "Akroma of Tacoma" and was thusly disappoint 😟

[Allcoin]

118 players at the MBH Legacy weekly. Plus 27 Modern players makes for a cramped room.

It was fun playing round 3., good luck at the GP

Also I asked Nedleeds to sign my brainstorms for me, but he left. What's that about?!?

[Richard Cheese]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aroma_of_Tacoma

Yeah. It is what it is. Tacoma has a rep all its own.

This is.... completely hilarious. I knew I detected just a hint of paper mill!

[Barook]

Unfortunately, there's no coverage for this event. This is the Mox Boarding House weekly. Only the Card Kingdom weekly has coverage right now. But the Mox people are trying to amend that.

115 players tonight. Fuck!
I was talking about the GP today.

[B4L4]

Coverage begins both days at 9:15 a.m. PT/12:15 p.m. ET/5:15 p.m. UTC

Source : http://magic.wizards.com/en/events/coverage/gpsea15

[Barook]

Source : http://magic.wizards.com/en/events/coverage/gpsea15
Thanks for the info

http://www.twitch.tv/channelfireball

R1 up in about 10 minutes.

[Dice_Box]

Do not know if it has been done before, but this timeshifted vid idea is sweet.

For those who do not know. They tape a game and then in the dead time replay it without having let you know who won before hand. It gives you two full games in a round.

[davelin]

12 different decks won trials, what an amazing format

[Barook]

Do not know if it has been done before, but this timeshifted vid idea is sweet.

For those who do not know. They tape a game and then in the dead time replay it without having let you know who won before hand. It gives you two full games in a round.
I love the idea. Way more professional than "Well, we still have 30 minutes on the clock left, have fun durdling in the meantime."

[Noctalor]

Burn vs Manaless

http://i.imgur.com/MSgZL.gif

[iamajellydonut]

Burn vs Manaless

Better than SCG Favorite #1 vs SCG Favorite #5 followed by SCG Favorite #1 vs SCG Favorite #4 followed by SCG Favorite #5 vs SCG Favorite #4...

Also, "Daniellpennington: They should pump this music in the play hall."

[Undomian]

We've seen 8 decks and only a single one contains Delver of Secrets? I hope they keep this up, this coverage is great.

EDIT: And it just keeps getting better!
http://i.imgur.com/upSOBpW.png?1
http://i.imgur.com/sNUbPOp.png?1
http://i.imgur.com/OE8R0zj.png?1

[Barook]

This coverage is great. I love that they switch to a different match while match 1 is shuffling/sideboarding between matches.

[Douif]

The only problem is that there is not any indication in order to know if it is game 1, 2 or 3 or am I wrong ?

[Barook]

Below the live totals. Red lines are game wins. I agree it's unintuitive.

[Dice_Box]

Edit: Nijaed.

[GnuHouse]

The only problem is that there is not any indication in order to know if it is game 1, 2 or 3 or am I wrong ?

Little bars below the players, purple indicates #of games won

Not as easy as, you know, a numbering system, but I guess it works

[Dice_Box]

Hallowed Fountain on the table. Yay for interesting things in the early rounds watching a lamb getting slaughtered in the woods.

Edit:
Ok, I get that he is new, but this is painful to watch.

[Douif]

Thanks guys :)

Yep, that's painful. Atleast, the chat is funny when he has to read preordain, PIF, therapy etc...

[Tormod]

Hallowed Fountain on the table. Yay for interesting things in the early rounds watching a lamb getting slaughtered in the woods.

Edit:
Ok, I get that he is new, but this is painful to watch.

True...

But it would be more painful to watch a full round of miracles, likely going to time with me falling asleep and hitting my head against something.

[Noctalor]

My god how bad can the jund player be?

OMFG DISCARD KHOLAGAN TO LILIANA WITH 6 OPEN AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

[Barook]

My god how bad can the jund player be?

OMFG DISCARD KHOLAGAN TO LILIANA WITH 6 OPEN AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
Not to mention he sits around to durdle with Wasteland instead of using it. This is infuriating to watch.

[phonics]

Not to mention he sits around to durdle with Wasteland instead of using it. This is infuriating to watch.

"The land promises nothing and keeps its promise."
—Oracle en-Vec

[Douif]

He did not waste BBD because he wanted to allow BBD to play Clique into Jace, nice fair play Karl :laugh:

[Noctalor]

Is this good for my jund deck?
http://i1376.photobucket.com/albums/ah36/capitanmarzio/download_zpsg2hr4fnn.jpg

[thecrav]

The only problem is that there is not any indication in order to know if it is game 1, 2 or 3 or am I wrong ?

See those empty boxes under the life total? If a box is purple, that's a game win. They've been having to explain it about once per round :/

Twitch views between SCG and the GP are wavering back and forth. For a while, the GP had a few hundred more viewers. SCG is currently winning by only 170. I've got a little program running to track the view counts through the weekend.

Even if you're not watching it, keep the stream open in a tab! Get those view counts up and show WotC, SCG, and your LGS that the people want more eternal!

[Douif]

See those empty boxes under the life total? If a box is purple, that's a game win. They've been having to explain it about once per round :/

I asked it during round 1 or maybe 2 and figured it out with the other answers but thanks :smile:


Otherwise, why the BUG player did not daze the stiffle on his fetch ?

[Noctalor]

Yeeehhhhh lets play tarmo in bolt range vs 4c delver


https://nintendodojo.com/avatars/a/b/61434_5_lg.jpg

[raid]

I asked it during round 1 or maybe 2 and figured it out with the other answers but thanks :smile:


Otherwise, why the BUG player did not daze the stiffle on his fetch ?

So he can not Daze the Daze on his Disfigure while missing a landdrop...

[Whitefaces]

Holy shit, so many bad plays. It'll tighten up later in the rounds obviously, but seriously, this is ridiculous.

[Tormod]

Wizards doesn't like legacy because it makes non-legacy players look like morons.

[Piceli89]

Which city is this GP taking place in?

[Julian23]

Somwhere between Seattle and Tacoma.

[thecrav]

Which city is this GP taking place in?

The event is named for Seattle.
The event is physically located in Tacoma.
CFB is calling it "SeaTac" (Seattle/Tacoma) because that's a lot more honest than calling an event 30 miles from Seattle "Seattle"

Sincerely, a guy who's still annoyed by the location of GP:Dulles Airport

[Noctalor]

Chapin goes for double explore quite often

Also nice sac monastery mentor with cabal therapy and trying to get a monk?

[thecrav]

I've asked a few times on twitter but haven't gotten an answer - anyone know what the dealers are buying and selling the playmat for?

[Richard Cheese]

Scrub Crawl starting shortly at Tacoma Brewing Company!

[Piceli89]

The event is named for Seattle.
The event is physically located in Tacoma.
CFB is calling it "SeaTac" (Seattle/Tacoma) because that's a lot more honest than calling an event 30 miles from Seattle "Seattle"

Sincerely, a guy who's still annoyed by the location of GP:Dulles Airport

Oh thanks. In the first three rounds I thought it was Gp: Punt City, so that's why I asked.

:cool:

[Barook]

Chapin goes for double explore quite often

Also nice sac monastery mentor with cabal therapy and trying to get a monk?
That's how you win a Pro Tour and almost a Worlds.

Haven't watched the match because this kind of match bores me to death, but if that happened, it sounds shaddy as hell.

[danyul]

I've asked a few times on twitter but haven't gotten an answer - anyone know what the dealers are buying and selling the playmat for?

Buying for $40 last I heard. Dunno about selling.

[(nameless one)]

Not to mention he sits around to durdle with Wasteland instead of using it. This is infuriating to watch.

Yes #wastelandkarl

[Dice_Box]

Go Volcanic Fallout! Fuck yes.

[hartigan]

Go Volcanic Fallout! Fuck yes.

That was fucking great to watch.

[JBlaze]

Somebody got disqualified for intentionally playing with counterfeit card's. Anybody have anymore info?


http://magic.wizards.com/en/events/coverage/gpsea15/disqualification-in-round-3-2015-11-07

[Dice_Box]

Somebody got disqualified for intentionally playing with counterfeit card's. Anybody have anymore info?


http://magic.wizards.com/en/events/coverage/gpsea15/disqualification-in-round-3-2015-11-07

It begins. Fun. At least he was not trying to trade them.

[JBlaze]

It begins. Fun. At least he was not trying to trade them.

I'd bet green money Wizards tries to make an example out of this dude. Five year ban minimum.

[Dice_Box]

I'd bet green money Wizards tries to make an example out of this dude. Five year ban minimum.

The worst part will likely end up being that he is just some standard grinder. He only bought the cards because he could not afford to play in Legacy. The dumbest thing is I get the impression from the way that the article is written that he was boasting about it. Likely to friends and got overheard or to an opponent that pulled him up on it. Stimpy, You Idiot...

[GoblinSettler]

Buying for $40 last I heard. Dunno about selling.

$40 was the highest I saw. Dropped to $30 mid afternoon and climbed back to $40 at end of day. Also saw $5 for the box and sleeves.

[jrsthethird]

Somebody got disqualified for intentionally playing with counterfeit card's. Anybody have anymore info?


Is this good for my jund deck?
http://i1376.photobucket.com/albums/ah36/capitanmarzio/download_zpsg2hr4fnn.jpg

It's all coming together.

[JBlaze]

They probably black bagged the poor bastard. Right now as we speak I'm sure he's being water boarded with nerd sweat somewhere deep below WOTC headquarters by Helene Bergeot and Randy Buehler who is dressed in leather pants and wearing a Minotaur head. he will then be hung by his penis and blasted non stop with Mark Rosewaters podcast at high decibel levels until he begs for sweet merciful death.

But if they really want to torture him all they have to do is force him to play Magic Online.

[Ellomdian]

This coverage...

Maybe watching it live would have been better, but at the end of Round 2, I want to stab someone. The commentary is beyond awful, the commentators clearly don't know a lot about the format, and we've watched terrrrrrrible Stax decks in 2 feature matches. I'm all for not watching delver all day ere'y day, but between the Manaless dredge/burn match and no one on coverage knowing what SenseiSensei is, I'm thinking it might not be worth my sanity to watch as much of the Day 1 coverage as I typically do.

Seriously, the GP Kyoto (?) stuff was more entertaining, and I don't speak Japanese...

EDIT: Just watched what I can only assume is a small child punt multiple times against storm. Going to bed, and I'll reconsider watching again in the morning. Please tell me it gets better post byes...

[apple713]

It begins. Fun. At least he was not trying to trade them.

exactly. I could care less if he was playing with counterfeits. Just means the poor fellow didn't have thousands of dollars :P

[phonics]

exactly. I could care less if he was playing with counterfeits. Just means the poor fellow didn't have thousands of dollars :P

The only way the entire thing makes any sense is if the guy did not know playing with counterfeit cards was against the rules, which in itself is quite a stretch.

[Flojo82]

Replay from yesterday on Twitch today?

[Dice_Box]

http://www.twitch.tv/channelfireball/v/24505351

[Flojo82]

Thx too you

[apple713]

The only way the entire thing makes any sense is if the guy did not know playing with counterfeit cards was against the rules, which in itself is quite a stretch.

Ya I understand it's wrong and against the rules but my point is that it really wouldn't make any difference as to his performance or the tournament outcome whether his cards are real or fake. They don't do anything different. Cards are just placeholders for actions.

[Barook]

Ya I understand it's wrong and against the rules but my point is that it really wouldn't make any difference as to his performance or the tournament outcome whether his cards are real or fake. They don't do anything different. Cards are just placeholders for actions.
The thing about fakes is that they're a huge threat to Wizards' business model - even worse than the reputation damage asscrack guy was causing.

Still makes me wonder how he was caught - either the fakes were that bad or he was boasting about it like an idiot.

[Dice_Box]

The thing about fakes is that they're a huge threat to Wizards' business model - even worse than the reputation damage asscrack guy was causing.

Still makes me wonder how he was caught - either the fakes were that bad or he was boasting about it like an idiot.


"We had received a lead that a player was playing in today's event with cards in his deck that they knew were counterfeit"
My guess is he said something.

[Cartesian]

http://www.twitch.tv/channelfireball/v/24505351

The coverage is excellent. Way better than SCG coverage.
Timeshifted matches is pure genius.
Commentary is excellent, play quality is a mix of low and high skill, just as expected.

Looking forward to day 2!

[apple713]

The coverage is excellent. Way better than SCG coverage.
Timeshifted matches is pure genius.
Commentary is excellent, play quality is a mix of low and high skill, just as expected.

Looking forward to day 2!

whats a time shifted match?

[dsck]

Go Volcanic Fallout! Fuck yes.


That was fucking great to watch.

Havent seen anyone wanting to get out of match area faster than Owen after that... I mean who the fuck would board in volcanic fallout vs sneak & show deck?!

[l33twash0r]

whats a time shifted match?

Recording of a match that's happening near the feature table and they watch the replay and comment it "live" so you get more coverage between the downtime's.

[Dice_Box]

Havent seen anyone wanting to get out of match area faster than Owen after that... I mean who the fuck would board in volcanic fallout vs sneak & show deck?!

One of our own. Come to the Combo Lands thread.

[BeardTron]

It was a delight watching Owen lose his Day 2 on camera. Not a fan of his.

I bet his opponent was thinking, "Draw 14, I dare you." Hahaha.

You could tell Jensen's heart was broken, too.

Dream crushin :)

[Barook]

I missed the whole Volcanic Fallout thing. Timestamp in the archive stream?

[l33twash0r]

I missed the whole Volcanic Fallout thing. Timestamp in the archive stream?

http://www.twitch.tv/channelfireball/v/24505351?t=11h23m56s there you go

[Dice_Box]

11:23:44

[apple713]

Epic fails on sneak and shows behalf. He deserved to lose that... Lands is a fairly easy match to win with sneak and show.

[jrsthethird]

Haha that was great.

[Quasim0ff]

12-post vs Shardless BUG

BibleThump

[BeardTron]

Why does Efro care about Daze there?

[iatee]

Marshall and Ian's unfamiliarity w/ the format becoming pretty apparent with this Infect/Storm match.

I wonder if Efro also didn't realize he was a land away from losing or just wanted to take the risk and save that Cabal Therapy to protect his combo next turn.

[Noctalor]

https://i.gyazo.com/ef03e9986ee6e27687e14d7f2c7d4fbd.png

[Kathal]

Aluren KreyGasm

Greetings,
Kathal

[Quasim0ff]

Aluren KreyGasm

Greetings,
Kathal

Aluren

KappaPride

[Kathal]

Aluren

KappaPride

11-0 for Aluren :eek:

Greetings,
Kathal

PS: It is nice to see, that my pet deck is doing so well :D

[Darkenslight]

11-0 for Aluren :eek:

Greetings,
Kathal

PS: It is nice to see, that my pet deck is doing so well :D

Aluren, the most active OTK deck out there.

Loved the fact that he comboed off through a Decay.

[Barook]

I have to say, I love the music they're playing between rounds.

[UnsungHero]

I have to say, I love the music they're playing between rounds.

Now if the chat would stop talking about Karl and his damn wasteland it would be perfect!

[Kathal]

Now if the chat would stop talking about Karl and his damn wasteland it would be perfect!

Who is Karl?

Greetings,
Kathal

[UnsungHero]

Who is Karl?

Greetings,
Kathal

Some guy who doesn't know how to wasteland, apparently.
https://www.reddit.com/r/magicTCG/comments/3ryr5m/can_someone_explain_the_karl_reference_from_the/

[Barook]

For the love of all that holy, how did these two guys go 11-1?

One reads every goddamn card, the other one plays Mox Diamond straight into Null Rod and tries to tap it for mana.

[Julian23]

I can only speak on Jarvis' part but probably by being one of the most successful Legacy players in the States. Had you asked me before the tournament, he would have probably been on my shortlist for Top8.

Seriously, he knows his shit, no matter whether he made a misplay there.

[conboy31]

Marshall and Ian's unfamiliarity w/ the format becoming pretty apparent with this Infect/Storm match.

I wonder if Efro also didn't realize he was a land away from losing or just wanted to take the risk and save that Cabal Therapy to protect his combo next turn.

That was surprising. Efro is super good but the odds seemed to make for an obvious cabal therepy instead of shipping. I glanced at an average infect decklist and they was something like 23 topdecks that were lethal vs. far fewer countermagic draws, especially something like daze that could potentially be played through.

[iatee]

I think the 'forget there is a card in play' punt is a lot more excusable than that Lili-split. One is just a lapse of mind, Reid Duke had one in the previous match w/ the Snapcaster and he's one of the best players in the country. Pretty sure nobody here can claim they've never made that kind of mistake.

[ESG]

Dark Depths kill the long way. Always nice to see.

[UnsungHero]

Aluren VS Lands? Wow this is awesome.

[Megadeus]

Maybe this will show SCG that people weren't tired of watching legacy, they were just tired of watching SCG grinders play Shardless/Delver/Miracles in every round

[Barook]

Maybe this will show SCG that people weren't tired of watching legacy, they were just tired of watching SCG grinders play Shardless/Delver/Miracles in every round
Doubt it.

The response I got on Twitter regarding the superior coverage of CFB was "Khans name stay, won't do the other stuff because that would be effort (and thus, cost money)".

Just let others take SCG's place.

[bakofried]

If SCG ditching Legacy means we get the way better CFB coverage, I'm all for it. Less down time, better break music. I can't speak for preference on the commentators but they seem good, at the least.

[Lord_Mcdonalds]

They just need to steal Patrick Sullivan from SCG

[Barook]

Look who's got a deck tech:

http://magic.wizards.com/en/events/coverage/gpsea15/deck-tech-dragon-prison-with-jacob-kory-2015-11-08

[thecrav]

The deck tech I really want to see is this one...

http://i.imgur.com/BeBhlfu.png

[apple713]

do we know what decks made it to top 8 yet?

[Pilhas]

Bug Delver
Shardless BUG
Aluren
Lands
Miracles
something
something
something

[Barook]

do we know what decks made it to top 8 yet?
Shardless BUG, Grixis Delver, Miracles, Aluren, Lands, dunno about the 3 left.

[Pilhas]

They are in:
http://magic.wizards.com/en/events/coverage/gpsea15/top-8-decklists-2015-11-08

[apple713]

They are in:
http://magic.wizards.com/en/events/coverage/gpsea15/top-8-decklists-2015-11-08

thanks.

aluren and lands are interesting to see

[ubernostrum]

That Reanimator list is an interesting-looking brew. Four colors, Izzet Charm as an enabler, mix of old-school and new reanimation targets, no Petals or Ponders and no maindeck discard.

[HSCK]

6 archetypes in the top 8 and some really interesting decks like Aluren doing well is great.

[ESG]

That Reanimator list is an interesting-looking brew. Four colors, Izzet Charm as an enabler, mix of old-school and new reanimation targets, no Petals or Ponders and no maindeck discard.

That's Stryfo. He's a Sourcer and a local. He's been playing Reanimator forever and is always trying new builds.

[apple713]

calcano is running really hot this tournament. Epic draws.

[Barook]

calcano is running really hot this tournament. Epic draws.
That's an understatement. He's currently dismantling Hansen.

[Ziveeman]

Woohoo, my buddy Gary made T8 with 4c Delver. Helped him tune the sideboard before the event. Glad to see it worked out!

[Dice_Box]

Fuck yes!

(Lands Delver final. I am totally unbiased...)

[apple713]

looks like lands is gonna win the GP. Pretty sure lands has an extremely good match against Grixis

[Julian23]

After eot BS, @BrianDeMars1 should have fetched first, then Ponder, then BS. Sees 7. Ponder,Shufle,BS only sees 6 since 1 is known.

[Dice_Box]

And Lands takes the cup. Nice.

[(nameless one)]

Only the second non blue deck to win a Legacy GP after Death and Taxes. I am happy.

[phonics]

It was pretty funny watching everyone in chat complain about how Jarvis was playing because they had no idea what was going on and just thought he was slow rolling.

[Dice_Box]

It was pretty funny watching everyone in chat complain about how Jarvis was playing because they had no idea what was going on and just thought he was slow rolling.

Well Lands does kind of look like Dredge does the first time you see them. It's quite hard to understand if you have not had explained how the deck functions. The RUG version even more so.

[Barook]

And Lands takes the cup. Nice.
Now I can only hope enough people bitch that they finally reprint Rishadan Port on MTGO. It being the most expensive card on MODO with 176$ (and probably still rising) is dumb, especially with the Judge Promo version being in their database since January.

[Dice_Box]

I can't wait for the top 32. Will be interesting to see the field and I expect another Lands deck or two.

[thecrav]

This could just as easily go in the thread about SCG getting rid of legacy but...

I noticed Saturday that on and off, the GP had more viewers than the SCG. This, I thought, was sure fire proof that SCG was wrong about legacy. After some quick research into Twitch's API, I wrote up a little BASH script to fetch the viewership numbers for both streams.

Quick info on the data below:

* The times for those vertical lines is based on tweets. As a result, they're not 100% dead on when the round started, but they're within one "tick" of me checking the viewership.
* I'm missing the SCG top 8 and top 4... not really sure why they wouldn't want to tweet about an important feature match... if anyone has estimates on those times, let me know and I can add them.
* Blank spaces in the graph are where Twitch's API didn't return a result. This will occur when the stream is down at the time of the poll or when Twitch's API doesn't respond. In one point on the SCG graph, you can see it die, then viewership drops hard for a few minutes. This is probably the stream going down and people taking a while to refresh the page and get counted again.
* The times are weird because I was lazy. Instead of pinging the API every 5 minutes, I pinged the API and then waited 5 minutes, so the resolution here is something like a check every 310 seconds.

Graph:

http://i.imgur.com/JuwJieH.png

Quick takeaways:

* SCG's peak viewership (as measured as I did) was 2,340 viewers higher than the GP's; roughly an 18% difference.
* Sometime during GP Round 13, which is approximately when the SCG eliminations round began, SCG's numbers dropped precipitously. Though they returned, they were not nearly as strong. Do people not like watching the top 8?
* SCG peaked in its last Swiss round. The GP peaked during the finals. SCG's peak seems odd. That's like watching week 16 of the NFL but skipping the Super Bowl!
* More people watched the last round of the GP than watched the elimination rounds of the SCG

SCG conspiracy theory time:

SCG's numbers have one thing a little suspicious about them. In the 6 hours preceding their actual broadcast, during which they were showing replays, they averaged 2559 viewers, going below 2000 only for a few minutes. While I understand that some people may leave their computer on the stream or that people on the other side of the world might actually be watching, it seems very strange to me for the live broadcast to peak at 13071 and for the replay, even in the dead of night in their target market, to average 20% of that peak.

If anyone would like to see or play with the data, I've dropped it on PasteBin here (http://pastebin.com/QbbrJKDK)

[Stevestamopz]

Only the second non blue deck to win a Legacy GP after Death and Taxes. I am happy.

Goblins also won the very first Legacy GP - surely non-blue decks have won more than 3 Legacy GPs :confused:

[lordofthepit]

This could just as easily go in the thread about SCG getting rid of legacy but...

I noticed Saturday that on and off, the GP had more viewers than the SCG. This, I thought, was sure fire proof that SCG was wrong about legacy. After some quick research into Twitch's API, I wrote up a little BASH script to fetch the viewership numbers for both streams.

Quick info on the data below:

* The times for those vertical lines is based on tweets. As a result, they're not 100% dead on when the round started, but they're within one "tick" of me checking the viewership.
* I'm missing the SCG top 8 and top 4... not really sure why they wouldn't want to tweet about an important feature match... if anyone has estimates on those times, let me know and I can add them.
* Blank spaces in the graph are where Twitch's API didn't return a result. This will occur when the stream is down at the time of the poll or when Twitch's API doesn't respond. In one point on the SCG graph, you can see it die, then viewership drops hard for a few minutes. This is probably the stream going down and people taking a while to refresh the page and get counted again.
* The times are weird because I was lazy. Instead of pinging the API every 5 minutes, I pinged the API and then waited 5 minutes, so the resolution here is something like a check every 310 seconds.

Graph:

http://i.imgur.com/JuwJieH.png

Quick takeaways:

* SCG's peak viewership (as measured as I did) was 2,340 viewers higher than the GP's; roughly an 18% difference.
* Sometime during GP Round 13, which is approximately when the SCG eliminations round began, SCG's numbers dropped precipitously. Though they returned, they were not nearly as strong. Do people not like watching the top 8?
* SCG peaked in its last Swiss round. The GP peaked during the finals. SCG's peak seems odd. That's like watching week 16 of the NFL but skipping the Super Bowl!
* More people watched the last round of the GP than watched the elimination rounds of the SCG

SCG conspiracy theory time:

SCG's numbers have one thing a little suspicious about them. In the 6 hours preceding their actual broadcast, during which they were showing replays, they averaged 2559 viewers, going below 2000 only for a few minutes. While I understand that some people may leave their computer on the stream or that people on the other side of the world might actually be watching, it seems very strange to me for the live broadcast to peak at 13071 and for the replay, even in the dead of night in their target market, to average 20% of that peak.

If anyone would like to see or play with the data, I've dropped it on PasteBin here (http://pastebin.com/QbbrJKDK)

Beautiful data. I had always been skeptical of claims that SCG Standard viewership numbers were much higher than SCG Legacy viewership, since it's not congruent with attendance, but I had no data to evaluate. Would it be possible for you to find data that either supports or refutes their claims?

[lordofthepit]

Mediocre (11-4, min cash) finish from me in my first GP.

I had been tracking GP attendance numbers for a long time, but I never really understood the magnitude of what those numbers were. The place was packed, and in fact, too crowded, despite the commendable efforts of the organizers and judges. I came to the realization that there were many more players that were interested in playing Legacy than can be fit into a convention center, even with every squished in. The real limiting factor to Legacy GP attendance is not the Reserved List, but venue logistics.

[thecrav]

Beautiful data. I had always been skeptical of claims that SCG Standard viewership numbers were much higher than SCG Legacy viewership, since it's not congruent with attendance, but I had no data to evaluate. Would it be possible for you to find data that either supports or refutes their claims?

I grabbed this data live. If there's someone who's got a log of past events, you could do such an analysis.

However, I could start grabbing that data. Weekend after next is Standard, followed by Legacy, then Standard again. However, I suspect Legacy viewership will suffer from the fact that it's Thanksgiving weekend. It seems like a lot of the events I care about are on holiday weekends :/

[jrsthethird]

Mediocre (11-4, min cash) finish from me in my first GP.

I had been tracking GP attendance numbers for a long time, but I never really understood the magnitude of what those numbers were. The place was packed, and in fact, too crowded, despite the commendable efforts of the organizers and judges. I came to the realization that there were many more players that were interested in playing Legacy than can be fit into a convention center, even with every squished in. The real limiting factor to Legacy GP attendance is not the Reserved List, but venue logistics.

But when there's more than one per hemisphere per year, will those numbers stand? They will, up to a point, but then the financial impact, as well as the "next GP is only 3 months, we can skip this one" effect will both kick in. At minimum they can go up to two or three per year. But it's Wizards.

[Dice_Box]

the dead of night
Is near midday for me. SCG events start around 2300 here. Now my work hours let me do that, but many it would not. Watching a replay at a reasonable hour would make sense to those who live in different time zones.

[phonics]

I don't think you can compare the GP numbers to the scg numbers. For one, the GP is almost an annual event compared to the weekly events scg hosts. The demographic scg/wotc are going for think legacy is just too complex, they want the people from hearthstone that may become interested enough to make a jump, basically the people they have been catering to for years with the neutering of mechanics like counterspells, land destruction, combo, and pushing creatures hard in standard formats. The legacy community may be a vibrant one, but it isn't one that they need, especially since the community is a lot less interested in dumping money into new product.

[UnsungHero]

Top 32 has been posted.

http://magic.wizards.com/en/events/coverage/gpsea15/top-32-decklist-2015-11-08

[Barook]

@thecrav: What are you trying to imply regarding the viewership numbers of SCG Standard events?

[phonics]

Top 32 has been posted.

http://magic.wizards.com/en/events/coverage/gpsea15/top-32-decklist-2015-11-08

delver 8
shardless 4
miracles 3
lands 2
dnt 2
infect 2
stoneblade 2
elves 1
loam 1
sneaknshow 1
burn 1
ant 1
merfolk 1
reanimator 1
alluren 1

[Quasim0ff]

The deck tech I really want to see is this one...

http://i.imgur.com/BeBhlfu.png

Is this the guy who needed to borrow a coin, from Seans tale?

[CutthroatCasual]

The real limiting factor to Legacy GP attendance is not the Reserved List, but venue logistics.

It's never been about the RL; don't let people who can't afford Legacy trick you into believing so.

[CutthroatCasual]

It was pretty funny watching everyone in chat complain about how Jarvis was playing because they had no idea what was going on and just thought he was slow rolling.

Throughout Day 2 he tapped 2 Rishadan Ports (his only other 2 lands being Maze of Iths) to cast Life From The Loam, and tapped a Verdant Catacombs + Port to do the same thing (though in this instance he was going to win anyway). Not sure how those got by the judges...

[Kronicler]

Throughout Day 2 he tapped 2 Rishadan Ports (his only other 2 lands being Maze of Iths) to cast Life From The Loam, and tapped a Verdant Catacombs + Port to do the same thing (though in this instance he was going to win anyway). Not sure how those got by the judges...

Did he have Riftstone Portal in his graveyard? It can be easy to miss since the yard can get so big.

[Jander78]

Throughout Day 2 he tapped 2 Rishadan Ports (his only other 2 lands being Maze of Iths) to cast Life From The Loam, and tapped a Verdant Catacombs + Port to do the same thing (though in this instance he was going to win anyway). Not sure how those got by the judges...
Riftstone Portal?

[Dice_Box]

Throughout Day 2 he tapped 2 Rishadan Ports (his only other 2 lands being Maze of Iths) to cast Life From The Loam, and tapped a Verdant Catacombs + Port to do the same thing (though in this instance he was going to win anyway). Not sure how those got by the judges...
Riftstone Portal.

Also it is the RL that's the issue, that is the reason people can't afford to play. Many want to, but are priced out due to cards that can't me reprinted.

[Bosque]

Riftstone Portal?

Yup, that Riftstone Portal. It was in his yard the whole time and those plays were all legal.

[Paul7926]

I don't think you can compare the GP numbers to the scg numbers. For one, the GP is almost an annual event compared to the weekly events scg hosts. The demographic scg/wotc are going for think legacy is just too complex, they want the people from hearthstone that may become interested enough to make a jump, basically the people they have been catering to for years with the neutering of mechanics like counterspells, land destruction, combo, and pushing creatures hard in standard formats. The legacy community may be a vibrant one, but it isn't one that they need, especially since the community is a lot less interested in dumping money into new product.

Sad but this above is true. I actually did the survey for BFZ because apart from being an ok draft set it's pretty poor. I was really surprised that in a review of their product they started asking me about Hearthstone! Already I only play Modern and Legacy and if they are going to alter standard to go after the Hearthstone market then I'll never go back. I mean I do play Hearthstone (it's mindless enough for me to grab a game during my smoke break at work) but it's not, and should not, be seen as a competitor to real Magic. I do worry however that real magic is not what WOTC are into any more.

[H]

I do worry however that real magic is not what WOTC are into any more.

I have no idea what "real Magic" is, but Wizards is only interested in selling Standard and to a greater extent Limited. It makes perfect sense from their standpoint, for several reasons:

1.) It's easier to design for. It is nearly impossible for them to test cards for Legacy, Vintage and even Modern. Simply put, there are too many cards and not enough time (i.e. employee work hours) to really see what new cards will do.

2.) It means they have to worry a lot less about unsustainable power creep. There is only so strong they can make cards before we slip back to Urza's Block. Not to mention, if they make high power sets? People complain that cards are OP. Make low power sets? People complain that they suck. Not worth entering the harder design space if everyone is just going to bitch anyway. And guess what, the low power sets sell anyway!

3.) Wizards' concern is always, "sell the latest set." Limited is absolutely the best at this. Standard is second best. There is your support right there. Why support formats that don't/barely sell any product?

The Reserve List isn't some legally binding agreement. It is simply a good excuse as to why they "can't" reprint cards that they don't want to reprint anyway. I've said it time and time again, when Standard and Limited aren't the cash cows Wizards wants/needs them to be, you'll see a whole new outlook on Modern, Legacy and the Reserve List.

[Paul7926]

I have no idea what "real Magic" is, but Wizards is only interested in selling Standard and to a greater extent Limited.

I agree with your points. I'm not bashing Limited or Standard. I like playing limited and I personally choose not to play standard mainly because I can't afford to keep up with it.

My point about 'real Magic' was that I like the complexity and depth of the formats I do play. I personally hope that the reduction in the effectiveness of removal, counters, other win conditions in favor of creatures and creature combat doesn't go too far. Playing both Magic and Hearthstone I don't want the better game of the two to sink to the lowest common denominator just to grab temporary revenue.

I'm also no economist and don't pretend to understand the secondary market very well. I've often thought that there must be a way that they could re-introduce cards and make money from it (such as Modern Masters, Conspiracy, other products of that style) and free themselves from the burden of having to pipe things through a standard format and breaking that. Is not the very fact that things like Goyf have not lost their value despite reprints proof that things could be done in such a way as to grow the player base and also maintain the value of peoples collections? I mean I personally don't care if the cards I spent money on become worth a lot less if that means I get more opponents and more chances to play. I do respect people that would be upset by that and think they must be considered. If a trader looses their shirt on the stockpile of 200 Goyf they are sitting on to make a profit then I'm afraid I'm just gonna smile.

Anyway, so far off topic it's not true!

[Darkenslight]

Throughout Day 2 he tapped 2 Rishadan Ports (his only other 2 lands being Maze of Iths) to cast Life From The Loam, and tapped a Verdant Catacombs + Port to do the same thing (though in this instance he was going to win anyway). Not sure how those got by the judges...

One of his opponents actually called the judge, and Yu showed the Portal in the bin.

[supremePINEAPPLE]

Throughout Day 2 he tapped 2 Rishadan Ports (his only other 2 lands being Maze of Iths) to cast Life From The Loam, and tapped a Verdant Catacombs + Port to do the same thing (though in this instance he was going to win anyway). Not sure how those got by the judges...I thought we were better than twitch chat here.

[Tylert]

I thought we were better than twitch chat here.

We're speaking about a cuthroat casual. He only sees what a casual player can see, but he's a complete cutthroat about it :)

[rufus]

...Quick takeaways:

* Sometime during GP Round 13, which is approximately when the SCG eliminations round began, SCG's numbers dropped precipitously. Though they returned, they were not nearly as strong. Do people not like watching the top 8?

...

I think that Seige Rhino reasserted its dominance in standard, and people were sick of that months ago. The commentators were basically saying that day 2 was heavily Abzan. Rhinocerous everywhere like Ionesco's play.

[Barook]

I have no idea what "real Magic" is
Here's a hint:

http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=74235&type=card


Sad but this above is true. I actually did the survey for BFZ because apart from being an ok draft set it's pretty poor. I was really surprised that in a review of their product they started asking me about Hearthstone! Already I only play Modern and Legacy and if they are going to alter standard to go after the Hearthstone market then I'll never go back. I mean I do play Hearthstone (it's mindless enough for me to grab a game during my smoke break at work) but it's not, and should not, be seen as a competitor to real Magic. I do worry however that real magic is not what WOTC are into any more.
They ask because Hasbro suits wants to know why Hearthstone is making mad cash despite being new on the market while MTGO's revenue is kinda "stagnant" and the most established program on the market for over a decade? Haven't seem them putting up any numbers of MTGO lately - which shouldn't come as a suprise, given how much of a trainwreck the whole thing is.


I think that Seige Rhino reasserted its dominance in standard, and people were sick of that months ago. The commentators were basically saying that day 2 was heavily Abzan. Rhinocerous everywhere like Ionesco's play.
I've seen people comment on the twitch chat that they came to the GP stream because SCG semifinals where 4x Abzan with Rhinos and thus boring.

[CutthroatCasual]

Did he have Riftstone Portal in his graveyard? It can be easy to miss since the yard can get so big.


Riftstone Portal?

That must have been it then. Man, that camera placement was so shit.

[iatee]

Graveyard decks / strategies don't work very well on camera in general. Like, if someone is just tuning in, how are they supposed to know someone has a relatively obscure card (which graveyard based strategies tend to play) sitting in his huge pile? Also the announcers have so much to explain w/ a deck like Lands since just about everything the deck does is weird and not-normal-magic.

[Paul7926]

They ask because Hasbro suits wants to know why Hearthstone is making mad cash despite being new on the market while MTGO's revenue is kinda "stagnant" and the most established program on the market for over a decade? Haven't seem them putting up any numbers of MTGO lately - which shouldn't come as a suprise, given how much of a trainwreck the whole thing is.


Yeah but in that case the suits are not comparing similar things. HS is not a competitor to Magic. Just the same as Heroes of the Storm is not a competitor to the more serious MOBA's out there like DOTA and LOL. I mean do you want to reduce your well written and directed mini series down to the level of a 5 minute cartoon because more people watch cartoons? They are different things and people can like one, the other or both. I play HS because it fits into small 10 minutes breaks at work. It has no real depth and gets boring very quickly but it fits into the gap I have available. I play magic when I have a day or evening to spare and I want to play Magic. I'd never spend a day playing HS. Sure they could learn from the UI of HS compared to the mess that is MTGO but that is about all you can compare. Even then the UI for HS has so much less to worry about it's not an easy comparison.

[maharis]

I have no idea what "real Magic" is, but Wizards is only interested in selling Standard and to a greater extent Limited. It makes perfect sense from their standpoint, for several reasons:

1.) It's easier to design for. It is nearly impossible for them to test cards for Legacy, Vintage and even Modern. Simply put, there are too many cards and not enough time (i.e. employee work hours) to really see what new cards will do.

2.) It means they have to worry a lot less about unsustainable power creep. There is only so strong they can make cards before we slip back to Urza's Block. Not to mention, if they make high power sets? People complain that cards are OP. Make low power sets? People complain that they suck. Not worth entering the harder design space if everyone is just going to bitch anyway. And guess what, the low power sets sell anyway!

3.) Wizards' concern is always, "sell the latest set." Limited is absolutely the best at this. Standard is second best. There is your support right there. Why support formats that don't/barely sell any product?

The Reserve List isn't some legally binding agreement. It is simply a good excuse as to why they "can't" reprint cards that they don't want to reprint anyway. I've said it time and time again, when Standard and Limited aren't the cash cows Wizards wants/needs them to be, you'll see a whole new outlook on Modern, Legacy and the Reserve List.

Limited and Constructed are definitely different games, and if your view is that part of what makes MTG great is the ability to amass a collection and build a deck on your own terms, I think it's perfectly fine to be frustrated by the limited focus of design and development. (That does not mean I begrudge people who enjoy Limited, it's not for me, but I would rather they didn't cater to that aspect of the game as much.)

I believe Wizards sees the endgame for MTG as a limited game first and constructed second, with ever-diminishing attention paid on the various constructed formats, INCLUDING standard. Their goal, and the goal of their vendor partners, will be to sell the drafting experience, and that requires extra attention paid to not just the effects in the card pool, but also the rarities. That pushes up the price of competitive decks in Standard (and elsewhere) since the most powerful effects have to be at higher rarities so Limited doesn't get messed up. Couple that with the shorter rotation, and you have a lot more people who are willing to just sit out a partial season and see what happens. But that will be OK because we will see limited pushed harder than ever. (Also supplemental sets like Commander that they can make $$ off of without having to worry about tournament players complaining).

Standard looks more like limited now than Legacy or Modern -- board stalls, lots of land-go in the early turns and bombs traded in the late turns -- and will get even closer to that, given Wizards' own statements that they will be reducing the power of ramp and removal.

So you'll have a situation where the game will play a certain way, but the best way to experience it will be in the limited format that requires you to buy $12 worth of product every Friday instead of paying $5 to bring the deck that you might be able to sit on for a full year with minor additions (not to mention a deck in a format like Legacy/Modern where you might make even fewer changes, none of which require buying any packaged product).

I know we all like to make fun of standard, but I see lackadaisical attendance for recent standard opens and think, this is the beginning. The biggest shock to me in the SCG announcement was the absence of limited open announcements. I know they experimented with them and didn't like it, and honestly I can't see how that business model works without constructed. I doubt the savings from not transporting your stock are greater than the revenue hit you get from no one frantically buying cards in the hour before your tournament. I also don't think limited is as big a draw on Twitch but I can't say that for sure.

TLDR: Wizards is prioritizing Limited and all constructed formats will suffer.

[Barook]

TLDR: Wizards is prioritizing Limited and all constructed formats will suffer.
The general design direction they're currently taking is not something I like. Most of the recent sets have been incredibly meh to downright shit (with Origins being a refreshing exception). And it seems this trend is going to continue since they bank in on new "hyperrares" like Expeditions and nostalgia hype to sell sets.

But I doubt this model is sustainable in the long run. BFZ may sell now, but the extremely low powerlevel combined with the insane Standard prizes is going to backfire pretty soon, resulting in some general loss of interest.

[Quasim0ff]

The general design direction they're currently taking is not something I like. Most of the recent sets have been incredibly meh to downright shit (with Origins being a refreshing exception). And it seems this trend is going to continue since they bank in on new "hyperrares" like Expeditions and nostalgia hype to sell sets.

But I doubt this model is sustainable in the long run. BFZ may sell now, but the extremely low powerlevel combined with the insane Standard prizes is going to backfire pretty soon, resulting in some general loss of interest.

Oh, a primarily mono-coloured set following a high-powered multi-colour block, even with good mana-fixing, makes for a "low-powered" set?

Shock coming in at 11 O Clock.

[H]

TLDR: Wizards is prioritizing Limited and all constructed formats will suffer.

I agree with you. The thing is that while this makes things a lot easier on Development, I don't really think their plan is a solid one going forward. The game is a popular as it is now because of Limited and Standard, not one or the other. Sooner or later (probably sooner) the sales are going to drop, because while there are people who draft with no interest in Standard, I think a fair share draft because of Standard (even if they don't play it, since Standard will give the cards value, they can draft, sell the cards, and draft again).

We'll see how this business model goes. Considering all signs point to BFZ being a sales dud (hurried inclusion of Expeditions (unconfirmed, but circumstantially probable) and widely panned Standard environment) it's not off to a good start. We'll see how it goes into next year. If this return to Innistrad ends up being another dud, I think we'll see some changes.

EDIT: We should probably bring this discussion over to the Reprints thread.

[iatee]

I dunno if I agree with your thesis maharis.

Standard helps support limited by ensuring that cards are worth something and you have the chance to "open money" whenever you draft. What good are prize packs in a limited focused world?

Being 'into Standard' also makes people more attached to the game than being 'into limited' does. You have a collection, you have to follow magic news, you have impulses to buy new cards. Whereas you can enjoy drafting but only show up to a draft once a month when you can make it.

[phonics]

Yeah but in that case the suits are not comparing similar things. HS is not a competitor to Magic. Just the same as Heroes of the Storm is not a competitor to the more serious MOBA's out there like DOTA and LOL. I mean do you want to reduce your well written and directed mini series down to the level of a 5 minute cartoon because more people watch cartoons? They are different things and people can like one, the other or both. I play HS because it fits into small 10 minutes breaks at work. It has no real depth and gets boring very quickly but it fits into the gap I have available. I play magic when I have a day or evening to spare and I want to play Magic. I'd never spend a day playing HS. Sure they could learn from the UI of HS compared to the mess that is MTGO but that is about all you can compare. Even then the UI for HS has so much less to worry about it's not an easy comparison.

That may be the case, but to people that don't know the game (Hasbro suits) they are all children's card games on motorcycles. Gaming and other similar things that were considered nerdy have all suffered from a watering down of complexity to appeal to a wider audience now that they've become hip, it isn't unique to magic. Alienating their existing consumer base is a small price to pay when you get a consumer base that is much larger and much more willing to spend money. Just look at video games and movies, where studios churn out sequels and annual rehashes of a franchise that are typically terrible, and yet people eat it up.

[(nameless one)]

Goblins also won the very first Legacy GP - surely non-blue decks have won more than 3 Legacy GPs :confused:


You're right. I thought it was Canadian Threshold that won the first GP.

[jrsthethird]

I agree with your points. I'm not bashing Limited or Standard. I like playing limited and I personally choose not to play standard mainly because I can't afford to keep up with it.

Ironic how people invested in the "too expensive" format with mana bases in the thousands don't want to deal with the cost of playing Standard.

If you play through 4 rotations of 18-month Standard, or you start off investing in fetchless Legacy burn and continually upgrade until you have a two/three-color deck with fetches and duals in 2 years, you're probably going to be spending a similar amount of money in total. This might actually make Modern the cheapest format to play over time, since you don't ever have to rebuy cards (you can play Twin for years, barring a banning).


You're right. I thought it was Canadian Threshold that won the first GP.

Way to change the subject bro

[ESG]

Like, if someone is just tuning in, how are they supposed to know someone has a relatively obscure card (which graveyard based strategies tend to play) sitting in his huge pile? Also the announcers have so much to explain w/ a deck like Lands since just about everything the deck does is weird and not-normal-magic.

Maybe because they play Legacy? I thought the commentators did OK, in particular on mentioning those kinds of interactions. Marshall Sutcliffe is still the worst commentator out there, IMO, but I'll take one bad commentator if it means I get to watch some good games of Legacy.

I was very impressed with CFB's stream overall. The ability to have two matches on simultaneously and jump between them between games or after one match finished was excellent. Less downtime and more Magic. It also gave a more representative view of what decks and players were doing well, since we were able to see large chunks of many matches per round.

[Paul7926]

Ironic how people invested in the "too expensive" format with mana bases in the thousands don't want to deal with the cost of playing Standard.

If you play through 4 rotations of 18-month Standard, or you start off investing in fetchless Legacy burn and continually upgrade until you have a two/three-color deck with fetches and duals in 2 years, you're probably going to be spending a similar amount of money in total. This might actually make Modern the cheapest format to play over time, since you don't ever have to rebuy cards (you can play Twin for years, barring a banning).


This is exactly why the 'expensive' formats are actually cheaper to play than standard.

The other factor, for me, is that I don't have a lot of free time. I cant play as much as I would like and with Standard changing so fast I'll only get a few games out of the investment in each shift of the standard format. I played Legacy goblins last month and hope to get another game, maybe two in before the end of the year. In legacy my deck and my (small) knowledge of the format will still be relevant. For standard I would need a new deck and be lost in the meta each time!

[(nameless one)]

Apparently Michael Phelps made top 32. Can we confirm if this is the swimmer Michael Phelps or just a dude with the same name?

[Quasim0ff]

Apparently Michael Phelps made top 32. Can we confirm if this is the swimmer Michael Phelps or just a dude with the same name?

It's not the swimmer... At least he seriously changed appearance if it is :D

[maharis]

I dunno if I agree with your thesis maharis.

Standard helps support limited by ensuring that cards are worth something and you have the chance to "open money" whenever you draft. What good are prize packs in a limited focused world?

Being 'into Standard' also makes people more attached to the game than being 'into limited' does. You have a collection, you have to follow magic news, you have impulses to buy new cards. Whereas you can enjoy drafting but only show up to a draft once a month when you can make it.

Limited is a key component of the pro tour, and is a path to entry into that world. And it has a (seemingly) low financial barrier to entry while a high financial upside for WOTC. What do you do with your prize packs? Practice for the next PPTQ, RPTQ, GP... there is a clear benefit to being a limited expert.

It doesn't take many rotations for people to become disillusioned with keeping up with Standard, and a recurring theme in discussions of the format are how terrible it is. (Even since the notorious Caw-Blade era, the RTR/Theros Devotion to Black deck, the fact that the top 4 of the last SCG was all Siege Rhino decks has driven plenty of consternation).

Standard tournament attendance and customer retention are at the whims of things WOTC can't control as easily -- like the price of cards. They can't power up or down the format without some segment of the audience getting pissy about something.

I'm not saying they're going to stop supporting Standard, or even Modern, or even Legacy. (Though their only mechanism for the latter two is really the GP circuit). But I do think they see their customer growth coming in playing up the limited experience: Friday night social gatherings, opening packs, drafting cards, outsmarting your neighbors, making it to the Pro Tour. It sells the most packs and allows them to curate the experience a lot easier. (Especially with the new two-set block structure)

[iatee]

I still think people need something to do with their draft scraps. The collectible-card-game aspect of the game depends on having constructed formats. Otherwise you can just build a cube of every new set for cheap and draft it with your friends indefinitely.

I think it might be more that Standard is just harder to predict/'solve' than Limited, so they just mess up all the time. They've kinda figured out what to do to make good-to-great limited formats, it's not actually that hard. Make a few new mechanics, balance out the colors, etc. Even when one or two cards make things miserable, at long as they're not at common you'll be fine.

[iatee]

e.g. Pack Rat in limited. Really annoying to play against! But you'll only see it from maybe 1/20 opponents. Pack Rat in constructed - really annoying to play against! Coulda happened to you 6 games in a row during Mono-B devotion era.

[phazonmutant]

GP was great despite losing on the bubble to a stoned fish people man. Shoutouts to nedleeds, alphastryk, sdematt, Warfordium, D@n, .dk, Dragonslayer_90, Jeff Chen & James Hsu (forgot y'all's source names!), and all the others who came to Seattle and said hi!

The commentary is atrocious, really makes me not interested in watching the VODs. There is so much dead air, and there's something about Huey's voice or the way he speaks that I find unpleasant to listen to.

Here's a fun story from a judge this weekend:

Player A casts a Beta Red Elemental Blast. Player B immediately calls a judge because he thinks it's counterfeit - too glossy. So a coven of judges are assembled to inspect these two REBs in his deck, and indeed they determine that they are fake. As per protocol, the head judge, Chris Richter, rips up the cards. They go back to the player, issue a game loss and disqualification (yes, both...because policy). He insists that can't be correct though, because he just bought them from ChannelFireball! So the Head Judge goes to the CFB booth and shows the pieces of the cards, and the owner of CFB stares at Richter...then asks if he remembers the five cards that were mistakenly left out of Alpha. Guess what? Red Elemental Blast is one of those, and is in a different print run then the rest of Beta! Those REBs were real, the penalty was erroneous, and Richter just ripped up a player's (expensive) property! Even worse, CFB is out of Beta REBs. The owner of CFB, being the good TO he is, immediately goes to another vendor, buys 2 REBs, and the HJ has to go back to the player and explain that the penalty was overturned, he's not DQ'd, and sorry for ripping up your cards.

[Mr Miagi]

Player A casts a Beta Red Elemental Blast. Player B immediately calls a judge because he thinks it's counterfeit - too glossy. So a coven of judges are assembled to inspect these two REBs in his deck, and indeed they determine that they are fake. As per protocol, the head judge, Chris Richter, rips up the cards. They go back to the player, issue a game loss and disqualification (yes, both...because policy). He insists that can't be correct though, because he just bought them from ChannelFireball! So the Head Judge goes to the CFB booth and shows the pieces of the cards, and the owner of CFB stares at Richter...then asks if he remembers the five cards that were mistakenly left out of Alpha. Guess what? Red Elemental Blast is one of those, and is in a different print run then the rest of Beta! Those REBs were real, the penalty was erroneous, and Richter just ripped up a player's (expensive) property! Even worse, CFB is out of Beta REBs. The owner of CFB, being the good TO he is, immediately goes to another vendor, buys 2 REBs, and the HJ has to go back to the player and explain that the penalty was overturned, he's not DQ'd, and sorry for ripping up your cards.

Is this really true? It seems so unbelivable, it's hard to imagine a judge would actually destroy a supposedly fake card. I'm also not sure there are protocols that mandate this action from a judge. Shouldn't this be brought up to Wizards because I really think the judge does not have a jurisdiction to destroy your property. Yes he amy DQ you and impose other penalties but destroying a card is certainly not one of those things.

[Varal]

GP was great despite losing on the bubble to a stoned fish people man. Shoutouts to nedleeds, alphastryk, sdematt, Warfordium, D@n, .dk, Dragonslayer_90, Jeff Chen & James Hsu (forgot y'all's source names!), and all the others who came to Seattle and said hi!

The commentary is atrocious, really makes me not interested in watching the VODs. There is so much dead air, and there's something about Huey's voice or the way he speaks that I find unpleasant to listen to.

Here's a fun story from a judge this weekend:

Player A casts a Beta Red Elemental Blast. Player B immediately calls a judge because he thinks it's counterfeit - too glossy. So a coven of judges are assembled to inspect these two REBs in his deck, and indeed they determine that they are fake. As per protocol, the head judge, Chris Richter, rips up the cards. They go back to the player, issue a game loss and disqualification (yes, both...because policy). He insists that can't be correct though, because he just bought them from ChannelFireball! So the Head Judge goes to the CFB booth and shows the pieces of the cards, and the owner of CFB stares at Richter...then asks if he remembers the five cards that were mistakenly left out of Alpha. Guess what? Red Elemental Blast is one of those, and is in a different print run then the rest of Beta! Those REBs were real, the penalty was erroneous, and Richter just ripped up a player's (expensive) property! Even worse, CFB is out of Beta REBs. The owner of CFB, being the good TO he is, immediately goes to another vendor, buys 2 REBs, and the HJ has to go back to the player and explain that the penalty was overturned, he's not DQ'd, and sorry for ripping up your cards.

I don't believe your story, there's just too many things that don't make sense. There's actually only 2, 7 with basic lands, missing cards from Alpha, REB is not one of them and the missing cards were printed together with all the other Beta cards. The judges actions also seems suspicious.

[H]

Alpha REBs are actually pretty pimp because they say Instant rather than Interrupt, they were certainly printed.

No idea if the story is true though, however, it sounds like a large number of people there didn't really know what they were talking about.

[twndomn]

Well..., the "Real" counterfeit was caught earlier on round 3, hence this false alarm sounds like the second incident.

http://magic.wizards.com/en/events/coverage/gpsea15/disqualification-in-round-3-2015-11-07

[phazonmutant]

Ah, the dangers of relaying a thirdhand story without fact checking. To those saying that the story seems unbelievable - well, the details certainly are off. I went back to the guy who told it to me and he said that he heard it from fellow judges, and while the details might be off, the story of destroying "counterfeits" that were actually real was true. So, maybe this falls under urban legend until we get corroboration from other judges at the event.


Is this really true? It seems so unbelivable, it's hard to imagine a judge would actually destroy a supposedly fake card. I'm also not sure there are protocols that mandate this action from a judge. Shouldn't this be brought up to Wizards because I really think the judge does not have a jurisdiction to destroy your property. Yes he amy DQ you and impose other penalties but destroying a card is certainly not one of those things.

The head judge definitely has the jurisdiction to destroy counterfeits. He's acting as the representative of Wizards, and their policy is that counterfeits are violation of their IP and damaging to the integrity of tournaments. I've heard of ripping up counterfeits at multiple tournaments.


I don't believe your story, there's just too many things that don't make sense. There's actually only 2, 7 with basic lands, missing cards from Alpha, REB is not one of them and the missing cards were printed together with all the other Beta cards. The judges actions also seems suspicious.

Well, you're right to question it.:tongue: If I had done basic fact checking I would have learned that you're exactly right with the numbers of missing cards.


Alpha REBs are actually pretty pimp because they say Instant rather than Interrupt, they were certainly printed.

No idea if the story is true though, however, it sounds like a large number of people there didn't really know what they were talking about.

I'd like to learn more about this story too.