CFB - Top 8 miserable ways to die in Legacy

[jandax]

http://www.channelfireball.com/videos/top-8-miserable-ways-to-lose-in-legacy/

No mention of blood moon, Revised basic lands, or mouth breathers

What a farce

[iamajellydonut]

Basically Buzzfeed quality.

Targeted demographic clicked and was disappointed. Expectations met.

[twndomn]

http://www.channelfireball.com/videos/top-8-miserable-ways-to-lose-in-legacy/

No mention of blood moon, Revised basic lands, or mouth breathers

What a farce

20:21 "Blood Moon," said Cheon.

[Dice_Box]

Revised basic lands

Hey. I like my lands, they are easy to fetch.

[Zombie]

No Show and Tell on the list?

[Julian23]

I really liked this one. Both Cheon and Sperling were so genuinely enthusiastic :smile:

[Quasim0ff]

I really liked this one. Both Cheon and Sperling were so genuinely enthusiastic :smile:

Sperling is amazing :)

I really miss his "Sperling's sick of it", those were hillarious :)

regarding op: Enchantress not being mentioned was disappointing, so was the lack of dredge.

[Julian23]

Recently ran into him on Magic Online when he was piloting that Brave Sir Robin deck.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CScWx52WIAAwh4e.png:large

[nevilshute]

It's funny in a way... the fact that 8 cards/situations is way too few to truly capture how many truly annoying things that can happen during a game of Legacy (or magic I guess) can make me wonder why I bother. Dizzying highs, crushing lows I guess :wink:

[wcm8]

Mine would probably be, in no particular order:

1. Mulligan to oblivion and lose to something that would otherwise be non-threatening
2. Loss to a lucky draw of multiple mana denial (3x Wasteland, Stifle, etc.)
3. Turn 1 combo nut draw (and almost always with the Daze/FoW backup just to rub it in)
4. Turn 1 or 2 Blood Moon / Chalice / Trinisphere or other similar interaction-denying spells
5. After a good back and forth and in top deck mode, losing to 4-5 draws of Mana Flood
6. Early Countertop lock (e.g. Turn 1 SDT, Turn 2 CB)
7. Topdeck'ed Natural Order win-out-of-nowhere where you had lethal on-board for the backswing. Yeah, I know it's a key component of the deck, but what were the chances?
8. Losing, in any fashion, to any extremely obnoxious / rude / un-hygeinic (why does these always seem to be a comorbidity?) / immature and/or otherwise unpleasant-to-be-around players, especially when they pull the 'still had all these cards' with their hand. Legacy is generally not their preferred format, they just came to play frustrating piles such as Belcher or Burn or Show N' Derp because that was the only deck they could borrow.

(yes, I am biased :laugh:)

Ah, but this is all simply the price we pay to play a game that has luck and chance as a significant factor. Formats that try to enforce complete 'fairness' and reduce redundancy/deck-manipulation end up pretty stale, e.g. Modern. Cards like Brainstorm and Ponder mitigate a lot of these problems without technically being threats on their own. <3 Legacy, despite all its shortcomings.

[jrsthethird]

Casting 4 Cruel Bargains and whiffing.

[Zombie]

7. Topdeck'ed Natural Order win-out-of-nowhere where you had lethal on-board for the backswing. Yeah, I know it's a key component of the deck, but what were the chances?

If you allow for Glimpse, hardcast fatties and big GSZs, pretty good. Elves runs a really huge number of game-ending spells, about twice as many as ANT does. It's not very interesting, but it's what the deck does. Random topdecks can and will kill you.

[maharis]

Mine would probably be, in no particular order:
7. Topdeck'ed Natural Order win-out-of-nowhere where you had lethal on-board for the backswing. Yeah, I know it's a key component of the deck, but what were the chances?

Came here to say this.

They always draw their one-of RecSage naturally to kill your Grafdigger's Cage too.

[H]

If you allow for Glimpse, hardcast fatties and big GSZs, pretty good. Elves runs a really huge number of game-ending spells, about twice as many as ANT does. It's not very interesting, but it's what the deck does. Random topdecks can and will kill you.

I had one where we were in a very back and forth game, I was picking off Elves, he had gotten in a few chip shots, but I finally got on the board with a DRS and a Goyf, but he had a couple creatures. I draw Clique and pass, Clique him after his draw, which was NO. I take the NO and he draws...NO and wins. Whelp...

[Bobmans]

So Sunday i was playing MUD against Elves. Game 1 i landed a fairly quick Ugin and sweeped the board by -2. The Elf player untapped and draw. With only 4 mana, 2x 1 mana elf and a Glimpse of Nature in hand he flipped and cast his entire deck to finish me with Shaman of the Pack in that same turn....

[Julian23]

http://i.imgur.com/6A7llpC.jpg

[Fox]

An odd list they've thrown together. I think the hands-down worst way to die in Legacy is past turn ~7 or so. It'd be nice if after a certain turn the game applied "Cumulative Clean-upkeep: lose 1 life" to each player.

[tescrin]

An odd list they've thrown together. I think the hands-down worst way to die in Legacy is past turn ~7 or so. It'd be nice if after a certain turn the game applied "Cumulative Clean-upkeep: lose 1 life" to each player.
Punish control and midrange decks to favor Delver and Combo?
Because we don't have enough Delver or Combo?
Or.. you just want prison decks to not require a win condition other than life-gain?

Seriously, there is no good angle on this idea at all other than what I imagine is someone who runs a Delver deck and is aghast when people enjoy the game in some other fashion.

[MGB]

I like this post re: ways to lose in aggravating ways:

http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?14662-All-B-R-update-speculation&p=883055&viewfull=1#post883055



...

Show and Tell simply has to resolve its namesake while holding a Timmy-esque EDH "I Win" card in hand. The deck has gotten even more obnoxious now that it's dropped Red and doesn't even need to win via the Combat step.

Without fail, in real live I tend to get paired against the luckiest SnT pilots ever. The guys that resolve it on turn 2 WITH Force of Will + other counter backup. Sure, in testing the deck seems to fiddle around and have its spells get countered or otherwise nullified, but I'm talking real life games with money and prizes on the line. I'm talking after going undefeated in the Swiss and being the first or second place seed, losing to some guy who only played a grand total of 30 minutes of Magic on his way into the Elimination rounds.

Seriously. I've had my own FoW countered, then Dazed their SnT, and had them pay for the Daze via exiling a Simian Spirit Guide. Loss to Emrakul.

I've had another SnT opponent land his maindeck one-of Boseiju on turn 3. Loss to a chain of spells cast freely via Omniscience.

I've resolved Ethersworn Canonists, Meddling Magi, and Containment Priests to only have them be Massacred or die in a Pyroclasm. And then lost to an Emrakul.

I've seen things you people wouldn't imagine. I've had my Flusterstorms seized from my thoughts and my Hymns muted by Leylines. I've had Oblivion Rings left in limbo as my opponent cunningly wished for some sort of answer. All these moments... will be lost in the tournament pairings... like tears in rain.

I am sick and ****ing tired of losing to this stupid ****ing deck and these stupid ****ing players that just shrug their fat shoulders, drop their hand of pink-sleeved cards onto their grubby My Little Pony playmats and say, "Didn't matter anyways, still had all deez nuts."

Ugh. Please. Do something. Ban this card. It might have been fine when the best thing you could drop in was a Progenitus or a Verdant Force, but now it's just gross. Same thing happened with SotF. The new overpowered designs ruined the fun and made the enabler OP.

[maharis]

Having some shaved ape just hoof me out of nowhere was getting miserable. All that said with my deck with 3 x Spirit, Cages, Revokers, Mother Fucking Linvala, Zealous, and 8 spot removal, I still managed to have someone just raw dog that dumb fucking cunt off the top and turn his board of 4 random dorks into fucking phyrexian dreadnoughts. Card is so stupid. When you had to think about what to play in Elves it was a cute deck, now you can just fling poop and randomly draw the antichrist.

[Zombie]

I like this post re: ways to lose in aggravating ways:

http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?14662-All-B-R-update-speculation&p=883055&viewfull=1#post883055

More!


I have way less issues with Delver tbh. It's not good for the color balance of the format, but I don't feel like the game is just plain dumb when I play against Delver decks apart from the T1 Delver T2 natural flip, waste you nutdraw, and even that can be mitigated by simply playing basics. That or when they play TNN.

S&T, on the other hand, just feels dumb every step of the way. The card itself - oh hey, it's the actual threat so you have to stop it instead of being able to stop it partway like you can with engine decks - you don't even have to expose the win con to counterspells afterwards like you have to with broken mana engines. It's a 3 mana sorcery that puts stuff into play from your hand so it evades most traditional card-logistic indicators of brokenness being afoot - cards coming into play from unusual zones, lots of cards being played in one turn, expensive spells being cast, and so forth. Unlike NO, it requires no sacrifice in board position to even try to get one through.

And then the win cons themselves are just about the least situational and, frankly, offensively dumb cards ever printed - Bargain with Lifelink (???), Emrakul, oh hey all my cards are free into Komplete Kombo In A Kan ("Now with a built-in failsafe so you can't accidentally deck yourself.")

All of which is topped off by Leyline, which immunizes the deck to the main form of combo hate that is naturally good against it for no mana investment and makes mulligans into lottery.

It may win less than Delver, but that's only because it can lose to itself, which Delver can't. That doesn't mean it's fine. The games involving the deck suck, just like the TNN ones do.


To be fair, my annoyance at S&T would be dramatically lessened if Leyline didn't exist. That way I could at least trust my mulligans against you instead of going "hey, three discard yess- or will these be complete blanks from T0?" the other (nonblue) non-discard hate against the deck is just quite narrow because S&T as a card dodges an absurd amount of traditional combo hate. Still would like the fatties to be the more context-dependant ones and not Emrakul and Griselbrand though. The lack of fucks given by those two cards is just dull.

And yeah, nutdraws all across the board are pretty bad. But S&T is still quite unique in how little it exposes or commits in the process of doing broken things. Like, compare to Channel, which requires commitment to green instead of blue. You can throw them out like S&T's to bait counters, but if an opponent lets a Channel resolve, you still have to weigh if you want to actually commit the life to try casting your broken card because they could just counter it or in case of Banefire bolt you to death. S&T you just plop in Griselbrand and draw a new hand with more gas. If they Swords it, so much the better. And Channel, the nonblue card with more failure points, is banned.
Same kind of dynamic with many other cards that do broken things. Storm's rituals mean they still have to expose the tutor, or you can trip them with a well-placed counter and the whole thing falls apart. Just trying Natural Order means you sacrifice some of your board position. Also, Craterhoof needs onboard resources to actually be lethal. A lethal NO on the stack? Have a look at this Golgari Charm. Glimpse/hardcast Hoof require heavy commitment to the board to make happen at all, and both Storm/Elves need heavy nonblue commitment so you can't really sit behind counter backup. If they want to proof themselves against hate, it requires an investment in-game - they have to resolve the anti-hate and find time for it. Leyline has none of that.

Even most other 2-card combos like Painter need to have two permanents on the field at the same time and have to expose both combo pieces through the graveyard or the stack as well before they can just kill you.

[Zombie]

Having some shaved ape just hoof me out of nowhere was getting miserable. All that said with my deck with 3 x Spirit, Cages, Revokers, Mother Fucking Linvala, Zealous, and 8 spot removal, I still managed to have someone just raw dog that dumb fucking cunt off the top and turn his board of 4 random dorks into fucking phyrexian dreadnoughts. Card is so stupid. When you had to think about what to play in Elves it was a cute deck, now you can just fling poop and randomly draw the antichrist.


:D

To be fair, NO is one dumb card.

[nevilshute]

Punishing Fire + Grove can feel soul crushing im

[GrimoirePath]

Punishing Fire + Grove can feel soul crushing im

Yeah, but wasteland is a thing. Deathrite Shaman is a thing.

[Undomian]

I like this post re: ways to lose in aggravating ways:

http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?14662-All-B-R-update-speculation&p=883055&viewfull=1#post883055

This is fucking poetic.

[tescrin]

A lot of people in here seem to really hate combo; but I really have to sympathize with it. A lot of times in Casual I have dumb combos in a psuedo-aggro deck (Incandescent Soulstoke into Liege of the Tangle in my Elemental tribal deck. YOU BET YOUR FUCKING ASS HELL YEAH!) and it's often because it gives you outs you "shouldn't have."

Winning "under" the grindy decks in the format keeps us from being standard; so as much as it pains you to get Emmy'd out or Tendrils for 38, these should be somewhat viable. I too experienced (just two weeks ago) absolutely brutal S&T hands:

Omniscience, S&T, Emrakul, Petal, Ancient Tomb .. all in the first hand no mulligans. T1 "you lose." NEXT GAME?!
Omniscience, Sneak Attack, Emrakul, Ancient Tomb, Petal, two other lands. I missed with therapy (S&T) and flashed it back for Sneak attack. Put out a Chains and a cannonist, and Cunning Wish for Through the Breach sealed it..

But... If I had been on Delver that day, he didn't have counters. I'd just have my Spell Pierce, Daze or FoW and Lol as he flounders with his clunky deck.


Us "fair dudes" who like stomping other fair dudes have a similar experience against them as they do against combo and as combo does against us. It's worth keeping in mind.

I mostly hate losing to:
* Rip Helm as an afterthought. "Lol. Whoops! I guess I won :D"
* Dredge. "Let's roll the dice and see if the deck wins for me despite no knowledge of the format. Lol."
* Belcher. See above.
* Burn. See above.
* Jace. (It just feels terrible as you draw garbage for 6 turns.)
* Favorable MUs due to variance. "Thalia + Wasteland. Lol." or "Double Waste.."
* Entreat the Angels. You were dead. You were dead! FGHHHAA

[kirkusjones]

This is fucking poetic.

+1.

Nothing like a little Blade Runner to drive the point home.

[jrsthethird]

* Burn. See above.

Burn has evolved from a brainless "count to 20" combo deck to a deck that can adapt it's playstyle from aggro to control, depending on the matchup and board state. People are even beginning to cut the iconic dumb burn card, Lava Spike, because it's fucking terrible and everyone knows it.

[iatee]

I mean the biggest change was that burn got Eidolon of the Great Revel - which made it a way better deck, but also even less fun to play against. That's a card that terrible players can mess up w/ but also one that can someone a mindless win t2 on the play.