[OGW] Oath of the Gatewatch spoilers thread

[Barook]

Edit:

Leaks create an unfair advantage as—because they do not go out over official channels—they are not as widely distributed to less-enfranchised players, thus creating an unfair advantage for some players.

So wait, giving out god books to pros months before release is a-ok, but leaks posted on Salvation are somehow an unfair advantage? :really: The amount of hypocrisy is unreal.

[Blastoderm]

Edit:


So wait, giving out god books to pros months before release is a-ok, but leaks posted on Salvation are somehow an unfair advantage? :really: The amount of hypocrisy is unreal.

"Pros" lol. One of those "winner but still a loser" scenarios I guess.

[TsumiBand]

Edit:


So wait, giving out god books to pros months before release is a-ok, but leaks posted on Salvation are somehow an unfair advantage? :really: The amount of hypocrisy is unreal.

Right, as well as the LGSes that stand to benefit from speculation.

If I thought about it too much, I might find this single article more of a turn-off than any shitty set printed in the last several years. Good thing I'm going to stop thinking about it and go play Unison League.

[Kathal]

~stuff~

Example: Games workshop has managed to super-clamp-down on leaks and 40k used to have every rule, points value, new units, etc.. spoiled before release long before the book came out.

Yeah, as far as I know the first "leaks" are only 2 weeks prior to the release, which is really surprising. On the other hand, the DE debacle where the whole BOOK got spoilered like a whole month before even there was an official announcement, that DE will get a new book, was more than rough for them (and costed several people their jobs).

Greetings,
Kathal

[Jamaican Zombie Legend]

Jeez, that article was terrible.

I understand that Wizards is pissed off by the leak; it throws a wrench in their hype machine and it essentially invalidates certain agreements they made with content providers with regards to exclusive spoilers*. Wizards doesn't get to release information on the set in the way they wanted to and a lot of websites are losing out on some traffic that would come as a result of, say, a spoiled Expedition or chase Mythic.

But some of the statements in that article are bonkers. Leaks aren't journalism, unless they are shining light on explicit wrongdoing. Lolno. Or an of the absurd, reaching analogies. "You wouldn't spoil a pregnancy so don't spoil children's trading cards!" I thought the quotes with that comparison were some sort of trollish fakepost, but nope...it's real!

The best way to handle the situation would be to remain silent, with the holiday break as a perfect excuse, and hope that the leaks stay contained to the more "dedicated" MTG fanbase on forums like this, Salvation, or Reddit. Don't stoke the Streisand Effect. And in the future, try to implement better security measures if leaks are so damaging.


Oh, and back on the topic of cards, holy shit is the R/W manland hot garbage. An activation cost of 2RW for a 2/1 Double Strike? Weak and boring, just like every R/W card Wizards seems to print nowadays.

[Dice_Box]

The lands are shit because Awaken is a thing.

[bruizar]

we're supposed to stop talking about this now. (http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/feature/why-leaks-hurt-2015-12-16)



It sounds like someone got booty hurt because they spent along time typing an article that was more or less outdated when it was suppose to be released.

If WOTC really wanted to prevent leaks, I feel like it shouldn't be that hard. Wizards could easily delay shipping their product, or push up their reveals and articles. I highly doubt people are breaking into their factories to steal cards...

What an ass-hat comment. The guy is 100% right about everything he stated in the article. Their teams work hard to create a marketing roadmap / plan a proper launch campaign. Leaks fuck up not just that careful planning, but the financial performance of the product itself. The toy/movie/games industry is very 'hit or miss', and failing to get traction for the launch of a new product usually destroys the financial performance of the product and often the company itself goes bankrupt. The only reason why this does not seem to happen with WOTC is because over the years they have insulated themselves from it by building a loyal fanbase, a smart business model (drafts/tournaments), saved up capital and by becoming a subsidiary of hasbro. If the leaks weren't hurting WOTC they wouldn't be writing articles about it.

I hope that leakers get caught and prosecuted, and if it happens it will be for the improvement of the game and the organization.


You might think WOTC is some evil mega corporation, but in the end this is creative work done by people and the fruit of their blood sweat and tears is being thrown on the streets before they get to put their work in the limelight as they intended.



Jeez, that article was terrible.

I understand that Wizards is pissed off by the leak; it throws a wrench in their hype machine and it essentially invalidates certain agreements they made with content providers with regards to exclusive spoilers*. Wizards doesn't get to release information on the set in the way they wanted to and a lot of websites are losing out on some traffic that would come as a result of, say, a spoiled Expedition or chase Mythic.

But some of the statements in that article are bonkers. Leaks aren't journalism, unless they are shining light on explicit wrongdoing. Lolno. Or an of the absurd, reaching analogies. "You wouldn't spoil a pregnancy so don't spoil children's trading cards!" I thought the quotes with that comparison were some sort of trollish fakepost, but nope...it's real!

The best way to handle the situation would be to remain silent, with the holiday break as a perfect excuse, and hope that the leaks stay contained to the more "dedicated" MTG fanbase on forums like this, Salvation, or Reddit. Don't stoke the Streisand Effect. And in the future, try to implement better security measures if leaks are so damaging. .

Great advice man, maybe you should apply for a job at BP and do their crisis communication. Because you know, staying silent and lying to the public is - teh bestest stragety.

[Lemnear]

What an ass-hat comment. The guy is 100% right about everything he stated in the article. Their teams work hard to create a marketing roadmap / plan a proper launch campaign. Leaks fuck up not just that careful planning, but the financial performance of the product itself. The toy/movie/games industry is very 'hit or miss', and failing to get traction for the launch of a new product usually destroys the financial performance of the product and often the company itself goes bankrupt. The only reason why this does not seem to happen with WOTC is because over the years they have insulated themselves from it by building a loyal fanbase, a smart business model (drafts/tournaments), saved up capital and by becoming a subsidiary of hasbro. If the leaks weren't hurting WOTC they wouldn't be writing articles about it.

I hope that leakers get caught and prosecuted, and if it happens it will be for the improvement of the game and the organization.


You might think WOTC is some evil mega corporation, but in the end this is creative work done by people and the fruit of their blood sweat and tears is being thrown on the streets before they get to put their work in the limelight as they intended.

Leaked material isn't something new for WotC. It happend like every set without them being able to stuff the holes and without them being prepared to respond to leaks by releasing marketing material (like for Kozilek and the "new" colorless mana) earlier than scheduled to avoid confusion like the one we have seen on this board.

It would have not hurt them to respond to the leak of Kozilek by releasing the article targeting the reworked colorless mana immediately, but no, WotC opts to do nothing alike, but rather bitches about the leak itself. Horrible PR and displaying how inflexible the company is. Maybe they should take a look the the movie/games industry how they handle leaks.

[bruizar]

It would have not hurt them to respond to the leak of Kozilek by releasing the article targeting the reworked colorless mana immediately

Certainly true if that article was finished by that time, but that's a big assumption. In any media domain, content creation takes a lot of work. Creative people don't finish weeks before their deadlines. If they would, the deadlines would be adjusted for it the next time until actual and forecasted workhours converge.

[nevilshute]

The article really irks me. It comes off as WotC basically communicating to their entire costumer base as though they (the costumers) are suspects in the eyes of WotC. The article also can be viewed as quite condescending in its tone: here comes old father-knows-best and tells the kids what's what. The points that are being made are valid enough... leaking stuff is tantamount to intellectual theft etc. etc. But it reads as though it should have been an internal memo or part of their training material for new employees. Not the raised finger at their entire costumer base it ends up becoming.

[Sisyphos]

Their teams work hard to create a marketing roadmap / plan a proper launch campaign. Leaks fuck up not just that careful planning, but the financial performance of the product itself. The toy/movie/games industry is very 'hit or miss', and failing to get traction for the launch of a new product usually destroys the financial performance of the product and often the company itself goes bankrupt. (...) You might think WOTC is some evil mega corporation, but in the end this is creative work done by people and the fruit of their blood sweat and tears is being thrown on the streets before they get to put their work in the limelight as they intended. (...)

I fully admit that I do have no clue about how to organize a marketing strategy and have absolutely zero experience in PR or anything related to it. So in relation to the big mass of consumers my opinion may be flat our wrong, but as far as I'm concerned, I don't care at all about how a launch campaign or marketing is set up. I don't purchase product based on the ads for the product but on the quality of the product. Even if you get the best marketing company available to work out your advertising, if the product itself does not appeal to me, I will ignore it. The way Kozilek and the <> stuff was/is presented will have no influence on how much of the new expansion I buy or do not buy. The only thing influencing that decision is how much I find the stuff interesting to utilize in playing/deckbuilding etc.

On the other hand I fully agree with your point that the product created by WotC is their property, they should be allowed to present it whatever which way they choose and indivudials not authorized by them to do so have no right to infringe on their decision by leaking the product. Putting a lot of work into something and having to see it being made obsolete is depressing as heck.

Doesn't change my opinion that I consider the arguments put forward in the article to be stupid though...

[Barook]

You might think WOTC is some evil mega corporation, but in the end this is creative work done by people and the fruit of their blood sweat and tears is being thrown on the streets before they get to put their work in the limelight as they intended.
But they are.


Let me lay out the plan we had to reveal Kozilek and highlight how we had built the context around our previews, had he not leaked early. First, after weeks of telling the story of the Gatewatch's battles against Ulamog and his brood on Zendikar, we lined up the story in Uncharted Realms to officially reveal Kozilek and his mischief on Wednesday, December 9. This date would have given the community a few days to talk about him, take contextual clues from the story as to what his card might do, and try to guess what he was going to look like. Then, the following weekend at the World Magic Cup, we would have revealed the full card and explained the new colorless mana symbol. Once we explained Kozilek and the new colorless mana symbol, we would then have shown you, as we did, Ancient Tomb's new Zendikar Expedition printing, which prominently featured the colorless mana symbol.

As it turns out, this is exactly what we did. Unfortunately though, much of the community had already seen Kozilek. So his rising out of the ocean at Sea Gate? Not that exciting. Our revealing of him on stream? Boring. The presence of the colorless mana symbol? Confusing. Because it was done out of context and out of order, the entire plan suffered and our fans were cheated out of the best experience we could deliver.

They take the level of bullshit to a new level. How could high res scans leak that easily weeks before their "planned" announcement? Because they did it themselves. Someone on Reddit pointed it out that Maro hinted at the leak happening weeks before:

Proof 1 (http://markrosewater.tumblr.com/post/129192880288/wednesday-november-18th-2015-prepare-yourself)
Proof 2 (http://markrosewater.tumblr.com/post/133172063743/five-days-remain-plan-accordingly#notes)
Proof 3 (http://markrosewater.tumblr.com/post/133305372973/less-than-72-hours-ensure-your-affairs-are-in#notes)

And guess when Kozilek and Wastes was spoiled:
Wednesday, November 18th 2015 (http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/magic-fundamentals/the-rumor-mill/648035-ogw-kozilek-the-great-distortion-and-new-basic)

Unintentional leaks my ass. First they spoiled it themselves, then it doesn't work out how they like and and then they shit on their customer base while blatantly lying.

[Dice_Box]

Well ain't that something. What's the link to the post?

[Barook]

Well ain't that something. What's the link to the post?
The reddit post? No idea, I just picked up the links because I found them interesting. The thread has over 1400 posts, I ain't gonna dig that one out.

I also summed it up in this pic (http://i.imgur.com/bIF8SZx.jpg) and put it on Twitter. Let's see how that one turns out.

[GundamGuy]

But they are.



They take the level of bullshit to a new level. How could high res scans leak that easily weeks before their "planned" announcement? Because they did it themselves. Someone on Reddit pointed it out that Maro hinted at the leak happening weeks before:

Proof 1 (http://markrosewater.tumblr.com/post/129192880288/wednesday-november-18th-2015-prepare-yourself)
Proof 2 (http://markrosewater.tumblr.com/post/133172063743/five-days-remain-plan-accordingly#notes)
Proof 3 (http://markrosewater.tumblr.com/post/133305372973/less-than-72-hours-ensure-your-affairs-are-in#notes)

And guess when Kozilek and Wastes was spoiled:
Wednesday, November 18th 2015 (http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/magic-fundamentals/the-rumor-mill/648035-ogw-kozilek-the-great-distortion-and-new-basic)

Unintentional leaks my ass. First they spoiled it themselves, then it doesn't work out how they like and and then they shit on their customer base while blatantly lying.

IMO the presense of the colorless mana symbol was going to be confusing no matter what... saying it was confusing to people because your marketing machine wasn't able to release the info as you wanted is absurd.

Wizards: Between the blatent cash grab with the Exeditions... and this... man... :mad:

[Dice_Box]

It's moments like this that playing Legacy and Vintage feels like the calm port in the storm.

[TsumiBand]

This thread got me like "Jet fuel can't melt darksteel beams"

Really though, their old practices with godbooks and who received them and why has me feeling like this "leaks r bad k" is a dog *they* trained to shit outside, and now they're pissed it does it in their yard.

It's implicitly fine if SCG gets a full spoiler and 4 weeks to determine the price point on the secondary market for mythics but if their "presentation" is offset by people that can't keep secrets they turn into Nathan Lane from The Birdcage? As a publicity stunt or otherwise, that's a lot of fuckyouverymuch.

[Richard Cheese]

This is my favorite part:



Leaks create an unfair advantage as—because they do not go out over official channels—they are not as widely distributed to less-enfranchised players, thus creating an unfair advantage for some players.


Literally every Magic player can get to the Wizards web site, but not to mtgs, reddit, mythicspoiler, magicspoiler, etc. Oh and not to mention we intentionally leak a bunch of shit at exclusive events or via a single magazine or web site.

[GundamGuy]

This thread got me like "Jet fuel can't melt darksteel beams"


Well played sir, well played.

[Dice_Box]

This thread is quickly turning into the most amusing thing I have seen all week.

[Stinky-Dinkins]

The only people in the world who would be able to prevent leaks would be WotC, through security measures.

That article is not going to convince anyone, anywhere, who was willing and able to leak info not to do so. "Well I was going to release these cards but that article really got to me. So many valid points." So, the only thing that article accomplishes is to bring further attention to the phenomenon, which makes it an exercise in irony. Job well done.

[GundamGuy]

The only people in the world who would be able to prevent leaks would be WotC, through security measures.

That article is not going to convince anyone, anywhere, who was willing and able to leak info not to do so. "Well I was going to release these cards but that article really got to me. So many valid points." So, the only thing that article accomplishes is to bring further attention to the phenomenon, which makes it an exercise in irony. Job well done.

A.K.A the Streisand Effect...

Also can we keep the whole stupid PC-Culture, SJW, Anti-SJW fight out of Magic? That would be nice....

[phonics]

You know I might has a little sympathy for WOTC if they weren't terrible and addressed the ridiculous prices of (modern) cards instead of half assed attempts like they have, made a online client that wasn't shit, actually made mechanics that were interesting and well explored, and stopped printing broken blue cards over and over again despite being extremely reserved in their card design. They are pretty much holding the game hostage with how they manage it.

[Aggro_zombies]

Guys, this thread is getting a little out of hand.

Regardless of your personal stance on leaks, WotC, the mechanics of Oath, or anything else related to Magic, please keep in mind the following:

1) No one owes you anything. Not every set will be God's gift to Legacy. Calm down. We're barely into spoiler season even with the leaks.

2) There is effectively no difference between the gushing fanboy-ism of, "Hooray! WotC can do no wrong!" and the contrary curmudgeonliness of, "Boo! WotC can do no right!" This isn't high school; you don't get any edginess points for reading The Communist Manifesto for the first time and then running around to complain to all your friends about how shitty corporations are for wanting to make money off of selling people stuff.

3) If you don't like the set (after just seeing the mythics and the sales gimmicks spoiled, lawlz), vote with your wallet and don't buy it. Don't complain constantly here about how WotC is trying to kill the game with MaRo/Kicker/expensive cards/keyword mechanics/changes to card layout/whatever else. Not only are you wrong and in the minority from a sales figures and player growth standpoint, but it's tiring to know that the major theme every spoiler thread is angry, entitled bitching. Save the circlejerk about how back in your day Magic used to be great for your local '93-'94 Magic group.

And finally, keep in mind that these leaks almost certainly involved someone breaking a NDA, which is illegal no matter how you slice it.

I'm going to temporarily lock this thread to let people cool down and maybe un-grar a bit. When it reopens tomorrow, hopefully we can have some constructive, pleasant conversation, yes?

[Aggro_zombies]

Thread open for business again. Please keep this thread to constructive discussion of potentially Legacy-playable cards and their applications.

[Gheizen64]

http://i.imgur.com/MdtGIEt.jpg

This seems a pretty good fatty. 6 mana is a lot but pseudo-vigilance, double ping, double creature tap or even double draw seems all good abilities. It's probably worse than just playing prime titan in posts, but it's also way easier to cast and the ability to ping/tap/draw depending on what you need could be useful.

[Aggro_zombies]

Hmm.

For CCCC, you get access to three cards per turn cycle instead of just one. That's pretty interesting, particularly in decks running Chalice instead of Brainstorm. Stax would have loved to experiment with this card years ago because it could slam and then ping, so you could close the game out in a hurry, or ping and then stop a big threat until your lock pieces could winnow that threat away, but sadly the Stax model is not so hot these days and I'm not sure MUD is in the market for a 5/5 that can draw cards.

[Barook]

The first thing that came into my mind was MUD. It's pretty similiar to Staff of Nin. You trade increased vulnerability, summoning sickness and not being an artifact for Metalworker for a big body, more utility and potentially more CA. Not too shabby if you ask me.

[Cire]

I guess we can move the discussion on this card:

Goblin Dark-Dwellers 3RR
Goblin
Meance
When Goblin Dark-Dwellers enters the battlefield you may cast target instant or sorcery card from your graveyard with converted mana cost 3 or less from your graveyard without paying its mana cost. If that card would be put into your graveyard this turn, exile it instead.
4/4

back to this thread?

I believe the consensus is that this card is sort of like a bloodbraid elf or sort of like a Snapcaster Mage. Either way; from what I can see either Jund finds a place for it, although it is unlikely, or Cascade deck .tm finds room for it, but that is also unlikely (and that deck isn't that great in the first place).

[DLifshitz]

It's very, very good value for 6 mana. Its problem is that's it's a schizophrenic combination of grindy abilities with a fairly fragile body and summoning sickness. It might be a better card if it were a 'walker with similar abilities and mana cost. I don't think it's got potential for Modern or Legacy play.

[MGB]

It's very, very good value for 6 mana. Its problem is that's it's a schizophrenic combination of grindy abilities with a fairly fragile body and summoning sickness. It might be a better card if it were a 'walker with similar abilities and mana cost. I don't think it's got potential for Modern or Legacy play.

But as a Staff of Nin replacement in MUD...?

[Begle1]

I guess we can move the discussion on this card:

Goblin Dark-Dwellers 3RR
Goblin
Meance
When Goblin Dark-Dwellers enters the battlefield you may cast target instant or sorcery card from your graveyard with converted mana cost 3 or less from your graveyard without paying its mana cost. If that card would be put into your graveyard this turn, exile it instead.
4/4

back to this thread?

I believe the consensus is that this card is sort of like a bloodbraid elf or sort of like a Snapcaster Mage. Either way; from what I can see either Jund finds a place for it, although it is unlikely, or Cascade deck .tm finds room for it, but that is also unlikely (and that deck isn't that great in the first place).

This card could be a 1-of in any Moggcatcher Stompy list with Stone Rains.
Or they could just run Goblin Settlers... Nevermind...

[Cire]

This card could be a 1-of in any Moggcatcher Stompy list with Stone Rains.
Or they could just run Goblin Settlers... Nevermind...

Well with Boom/Bust, it can be a 3RR 4/4 menace plus Armageddon

[Dice_Box]

http://i.imgur.com/MdtGIEt.jpg

This seems a pretty good fatty. 6 mana is a lot but pseudo-vigilance, double ping, double creature tap or even double draw seems all good abilities. It's probably worse than just playing prime titan in posts, but it's also way easier to cast and the ability to ping/tap/draw depending on what you need could be useful.
If only he was an artifact.

[Bosque]

I think it could be considered in something like MUD or I might even try it in a Tezz list that runs harder on the mana acceleration.

Yes, it would be so much better if it was an artifact!

[Darkenslight]

If only he was an artifact.

Yeah.

I think he'll see play in Legacy as a 1-2 of in MUD and/or specialised Tezz/Affinity lists.

In standard, however, I think we may have finally found our counter to Siege Rhino.

[HdH_Cthulhu]

Idk man, abzan has so many removals... why would you want an overcosted blocker?

[iamajellydonut]

If only he was an artifact.

I mean, would being an artifact actually help? I can't see this guy being run in decks that sport Tezzy or Transmute Artifact anyway, and otherwise it just makes Ancient Grudge and friends more potent.

[Dice_Box]

I mean, would being an artifact actually help? I can't see this guy being run in decks that sport Tezzy or Transmute Artifact anyway, and otherwise it just makes Ancient Grudge and friends more potent.
I think so, gives MUD an effective draw engine that's not bad as a 5/5 with vigilance, also would help Shops against Oath.

[bruizar]

I think so, gives MUD an effective draw engine that's not bad as a 5/5 with vigilance, also would help Shops against Oath.

I think the draw isn't even the most important. It stops Emrakul and kills utility creatures very effectively. I expect it to play a little bit like Triskelion in vintage, decimating small creatures (being able to ping so frequently AND block/attack at the same time gives you a decent answer to pyromancer swarms). The draw just makes it never dead.

[Barook]

There's currently a new Modern deck popping up everywhere since it's relatively cheap and fun to play: Bx Eldrazi Ramp

It abuses Eye of Ugin and Eldrazi Temple for cheap ramp since mana disruption sucks in Modern to abuse the new Eldrazi processors like Wasteland Strangler, Oblivion Sower and Blight Herder. Sounds dumb as hell in theory, but works suprisingly well.

Endbringer is a perfect fit for this deck and Sea Gate Ruins that draws you cards while Hellbent probably might get a few slots as well, aside from any other goodies that might come up.

I wonder if the core of the deck could be adapted and ported to Legacy as well. Since the base is colorless, you could even run blue for counters/cantrips, although it would probably still worse than MUD/12 Post.

Here's a sample list of what I'm running:
http://i.imgur.com/ml64JlK.jpg

StP instead of PtE, a dual/fetch manabase and DRS for utility/extra exiling would seem like the first, obvious upgrades.

[ESG]

It's an inventive idea, and thanks for posting it, but I'm pretty sure the predominance of Wasteland and fast combo doom this deck. The bulk of these Eldrazis aren't even threatening. Oblivion Sower is basically just a Tarmogoyf that costs 6. If I'm contorting my manabase so severely, I expect a payoff. MUD and 12 Post give you that payoff, but this deck needs a lot more firepower.

[Fatal]

12post and MUD are far from this construction, probably the closest is Nic feat. 8 post runs also removal but it also abuse veteran explorer to have chances vs wastelands, with discard and searchable gaddock it isnt such an underdog vs combo but it's still unfavorable vs turn 1-2 combo like belcher or TES. As. eldrazi Emmy, Kozilek and new Ulamog are probably the only usefull. As the best ramp: Primeval Titan with cloudposts are best constant solution.

[MGB]

I was playtesting an Eldrazi deck online that plays 4 Eldrazi Temple, 4 Ancient Tomb, 4 City of Traitors, and some Eye of Ugin. The theory is that Eldrazi Temple is like another Sol-Land in the deck. The problem ended up being, for me, that most of the eldrazi outside of Ulamog and Emrakul and Wasteland Strangler are just not good enough, or at least not as good as just playing the creatures that MUD and the Green Post deck play.

[Dice_Box]

Shrine to the Forsaken Gods was so close to being playable... When I see posts like yours it reminds me and makes me cry inside.

[Darkenslight]

I was playtesting an Eldrazi deck online that plays 4 Eldrazi Temple, 4 Ancient Tomb, 4 City of Traitors, and some Eye of Ugin. The theory is that Eldrazi Temple is like another Sol-Land in the deck. The problem ended up being, for me, that most of the eldrazi outside of Ulamog and Emrakul and Wasteland Strangler are just not good enough, or at least not as good as just playing the creatures that MUD and the Green Post deck play.

You know what's really funny in that deck?

Mirror Gallery. As a 1-of.

[twndomn]

http://mythicspoiler.com/ogw/cards/wasteland.jpg

http://mythicspoiler.com/ogw/cards/wasteland.html

How credible is this source? Assume this is real, will existing Wasteland get the errata?

[rufus]

...

How credible is this source? Assume this is real, will existing Wasteland get the errata?
Here's the official version:

http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/feature/never-wasted-holiday-2015-12-24

Going forward, all colorless mana (basically colorless mana that's produced) will have that diamond symbol. Generic mana costs (ones that don't care about the type of mana) will use the numbers we're used to, and properly colorless costs (i.e. colorless mana only) will used that diamond symbol.

[jrsthethird]

Happy Holidays! And if you haven't had the chance to catch the rest of the Expeditions from Oath of the Gatewatch these last few weeks, here they are in all of their glory:

"We threw a fit and banned some people, so fuck it, here's the cool shit everyone else got to see first. Sorry 'bout that."

[Barook]

http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/attachments/148/587/635868932707324816.png

Colorless removal. Not the best thing ever, but could see fringe play. Maybe.

http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/attachments/148/599/635868933745520498.png
Cantrip, cast something, draw a card? Makes Gitaxian Probe even better than it already is. Even counter wars can go stupid with it. Brainstorm + counter or double counter and you draw.

Grixis can also pull off sick tricks with Therapy.

I'm already vomiting.

Rest of spoilers are already known or look like crap. (http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/magic-fundamentals/the-rumor-mill/656736-ogw-mothership-spoilers-for-december-28th)

[Dice_Box]

Spatial looks ok for MUD maybe. I think 4 life might still just be better for the extra -2 on toughness and the 1 mana less cost.

[iamajellydonut]

Rest of spoilers are already known or look like crap. (http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/magic-fundamentals/the-rumor-mill/656736-ogw-mothership-spoilers-for-december-28th)

http://mythicspoiler.com/ogw/cards/stonehavenoutfitter.jpg

Could be worse.

"Support" is pretty weak (http://i.imgur.com/FFSJcau.jpg) though.

[Dice_Box]

http://mythicspoiler.com/ogw/cards/stonehavenoutfitter.jpg

Could be worse.
I wonder if they are going to reprint SFM. Its only as powerful as the targets they print.

[Barook]

I wonder if they are going to reprint SFM. Its only as powerful as the targets they print.
There are pics of a reprint floating around today, but note that today is the Spanish version of April's Fool. I wouldn't get too excited yet.

Don't know where you got Stone Haven Outfitter from, but I can't really see practical uses. If it was "leaves the battlefield", we might be talking, but alas, StP, Terminus and removal in response to the equip make it uninteresting for Legacy.

Edit: It becomes a draw engine with SFM and Batterskull for the mere price of :4::w: (or :8: without SFM). Still seems terrible.

[Vicar in a tutu]

The new UR legend looks cool. Wonderful with Gitaxian Probe. Cast the legend, cast Probe, draw card. Seems good. (Actually draw 2 cards, 'cause you get a draw from the Probe.)

[Dice_Box]

There are pics of a reprint floating around today, but note that today is the Spanish version of April's Fool. I wouldn't get too excited yet.

Don't know where you got Stone Haven Outfitter from, but I can't really see practical uses. If it was "leaves the battlefield", we might be talking, but alas, StP, Terminus and removal in response to the equip make it uninteresting for Legacy.

Edit: It becomes a draw engine with SFM and Batterskull for the mere price of :4::w: (or :8: without SFM). Still seems terrible.

The Stoneforge that is floating around is fake according to Salvation. Something to do with the wrong font in the footer.

Edit:
Yea that Stoneforge is numbered 20ish. Thats not likely.

[rufus]

...
Cantrip, cast something, draw a card? Makes Gitaxian Probe even better than it already is. Even counter wars can go stupid with it. Brainstorm + counter or double counter and you draw.
..


Seems like an awful lot to spend for drawing at most 1 card per turn. Maybe if you can use the body in merfolk it's got some value.



Don't know where you got Stone Haven Outfitter from, but I can't really see practical uses. If it was "leaves the battlefield", we might be talking, but alas, StP, Terminus and removal in response to the equip make it uninteresting for Legacy.


There's some curious interaction with Grafted Wargear and token producers like Abzan Ascendancy, but it's unlikely to be worth the effort in legacy.

[Vicar in a tutu]

Seems like an awful lot to spend for drawing at most 1 card per turn. Maybe if you can use the body in merfolk it's got some value.
The idea is that you cast the UR legend and just continue to "play Magic". Like Tarmogoyf, you don't make a concerted effort to get more stuff into the yard. Cast this dude, maybe draw a card the same turn you cast him. Next turn, draw another card, etc. It doesn't give you several cards the turn you play him, it's more for grinding.

[H]

Seems like an awful lot to spend for drawing at most 1 card per turn. Maybe if you can use the body in merfolk it's got some value.

There's some curious interaction with Grafted Wargear and token producers like Abzan Ascendancy, but it's unlikely to be worth the effort in legacy.

I guess maybe with Lingering Souls in Modern? Probably still not very good.


The idea is that you cast the UR legend and just continue to "play Magic". Like Tarmogoyf, you don't make a concerted effort to get more stuff into the yard. Cast this dude, maybe draw a card the same turn you cast him. Next turn, draw another card, etc. It doesn't give you several cards the turn you play him, it's more for grinding.

Yeah, but Goyf incidentally gets big (which makes him somewhat resilient), isn't a bad top deck, and isn't three mana. I can't see that legend being much good at all.

[Barook]

Seems like an awful lot to spend for drawing at most 1 card per turn. Maybe if you can use the body in merfolk it's got some value.

There's some curious interaction with Grafted Wargear and token producers like Abzan Ascendancy, but it's unlikely to be worth the effort in legacy.
You spend 3 mana initially. Everything after that is just normal stuff you do. That's not that big of an investment, especially since the extra cards can be used to fuel future activations. It's a grindy card for long-term advantage, lacking the explosiveness Treasure Cruise had. It also has AWESOME. :tongue:

Grafted Wargear interaction seems interesting, but then again, you would run Grafted Wargear. :rolleyes:

[Dice_Box]

I guess maybe with Lingering Souls in Modern? Probably still not very good.
Grixis Control in Modern runs 4 Jace and 3 Snapcaster. It wins though unhealthy amounts of Card Advantage. This lady and that new Vampire both slot into the deck quite well, fighting with Pia and Kiran for those two slots. Will be a home for it if it proves itself strong enough.

[H]

Grixis Control in Modern runs 4 Jace and 3 Snapcaster. It wins though unhealthy amounts of Card Advantage. This lady and that new Vampire both slot into the deck quite well, fighting with Pia and Kiran for those two slots. Will be a home for it if it proves itself strong enough.

I was actually talking more about the Equipment buffer to go with Lingering Souls.

While I see your point, a 2/3 for 3 is still pretty fragile.

[Dice_Box]

I was actually talking more about the Equipment buffer to go with Lingering Souls.

While I see your point, a 2/3 for 3 is still pretty fragile.
Yes it is, but Rise and Kolaghan's Command both help with that. Personally I think that new Vampire will take the spot though. This fish is an option but I think she will lose out to another great card. I am liking what I am seeing. If they did consolidate two blocks into one, they got a lot of good shit into that block. While it might not blow the hinges off Legacy, it will make waves in Modern.

[Barook]

Yes it is, but Rise and Kolaghan's Command both help with that. Personally I think that new Vampire will take the spot though. This fish is an option but I think she will lose out to another great card. I am liking what I am seeing. If they did consolidate two blocks into one, they got a lot of good shit into that block. While it might not blow the hinges off Legacy, it will make waves in Modern.
The consolidation is already the reason why BFZ was so terrible. If anything powerful is in this set, it's probably going to be Ken Nagle pushing overpowered designs again.

[Dice_Box]

The consolidation is already the reason why BFZ was so terrible. If anything powerful is in this set, it's probably going to be Ken Nagle pushing overpowered designs again.
Terrible how? As a standard set? Don't care. As a limited set? It's actually a lot of fun. As a set that has had Legacy impact? This is meant to be the underpowered set to reset Standard. After Karns I was not expecting much. To date this set has done exactly what I expected of it.

[Lemnear]

http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/attachments/148/587/635868932707324816.png

http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/attachments/148/599/635868933745520498.png

MUD/12-Post/etc. got colorless spot removal? This is something to keep an eye on imo. The Legendary Creature however is kinda mediocre for the investment and for being limited to one-time-per-turn-use

[rufus]

You spend 3 mana initially. Everything after that is just normal stuff you do. That's not that big of an investment, especially since the extra cards can be used to fuel future activations. It's a grindy card for long-term advantage, lacking the explosiveness Treasure Cruise had. It also has AWESOME. :tongue:

I feel like a 3 cc creature in legacy has to be able to run away with the game - like - True Name Nemesis, Knight of the Reliquary, or Monastery Mentor. I guess the 'best case' for this guy is a deck that plays a lot of inexpensive 1-1 answers and then play a long game to realize value off the card advantage, but he's vulnerable to almost every removal in the format, and really needs to stick around for a while to produce value.

That said, it seems like a natural card to pair with Jori En is (sigh) Sensei's Divining Top since it's a reusable cantrip - if you're playing stuff main phase you can get an extra card for :1:.

[GundamGuy]

Support just seems like one of those mechanics that they didn't actually need to keyword...

[Vicar in a tutu]

I feel like a 3 cc creature in legacy has to be able to run away with the game - like - True Name Nemesis, Knight of the Reliquary, or Monastery Mentor. I guess the 'best case' for this guy is a deck that plays a lot of inexpensive 1-1 answers and then play a long game to realize value off the card advantage, but he's vulnerable to almost every removal in the format, and really needs to stick around for a while to produce value.

That said, it seems like a natural card to pair with Jori En is (sigh) Sensei's Divining Top since it's a reusable cantrip - if you're playing stuff main phase you can get an extra card for :1:.
Another scenario: I cast UR legend guy. Endstep, my opponent bolts / plows / whatever. I Force or Daze, gaining a card from the legend's ability.

[Barook]

Another scenario: I cast UR legend guy. Endstep, my opponent bolts / plows / whatever. I Force or Daze, gaining a card from the legend's ability.
Yeah, trying to kill it on the turn they played might be a bad idea. It basically forces the opponent to spread out their stuff when they're up against free countermagic.


I feel like a 3 cc creature in legacy has to be able to run away with the game - like - True Name Nemesis, Knight of the Reliquary, or Monastery Mentor. I guess the 'best case' for this guy is a deck that plays a lot of inexpensive 1-1 answers and then play a long game to realize value off the card advantage, but he's vulnerable to almost every removal in the format, and really needs to stick around for a while to produce value.

That said, it seems like a natural card to pair with Jori En is (sigh) Sensei's Divining Top since it's a reusable cantrip - if you're playing stuff main phase you can get an extra card for :1:.
I could see it running away the with game, given the card advantage it could produce. It should play well in Pyromancer (or Mentor, to some extend) shells.

Snapcaster --> spell also results in an extra card. If it's an instant, it could be fired off during your opponent's turn, too, since it also counts creatures for whatever unholy reason.

[rufus]

Support just seems like one of those mechanics that they didn't actually need to keyword...

Fixed that for you.


Another scenario: I cast UR legend guy. Endstep ...

Yeah, or you follow up with Gitaxian Probe. Thing is, one-shot scenarios really just make it into a Wistful Selkie.

[Aggro_zombies]

I think the UR Legend is almost but not quite playable.

Being a 3-mana X/3 is a real downside in this format, especially relative to planeswalkers, who also provide a once-per-turn stream of card advantage. Furthermore, the card advantage provided by Jori is predicated on casting a bunch of spells every turn, and the only UR decks that are looking to do that usually are tempo-based builds that want way more out of their 3-mana guys than a 2/3 body and an extra card or two. It's possible that a slower deck may want her, like Jeskai Stoneblade, but those decks are also less likely to be able to trigger her every turn cycle, which makes the comparison to planeswalkers even less favorable.

Put another way: she costs exactly the same as Dack Fayden, and Dack Fayden has some significant advantages over her: doesn't die to Bolt, Swords, Dismember, or other common creature removal; has a relevant ability besides just sculpting your hand; and can sculpt your hand in the absence of anything else going on, which means he supports both tempo decks and draw-go decks. And even then, Dack sees very little play in this format.

[bruizar]

Spatial Contortion looks rock solid.

[GundamGuy]

I think the UR Legend is almost but not quite playable.

Being a 3-mana X/3 is a real downside in this format, especially relative to planeswalkers, who also provide a once-per-turn stream of card advantage. Furthermore, the card advantage provided by Jori is predicated on casting a bunch of spells every turn, and the only UR decks that are looking to do that usually are tempo-based builds that want way more out of their 3-mana guys than a 2/3 body and an extra card or two. It's possible that a slower deck may want her, like Jeskai Stoneblade, but those decks are also less likely to be able to trigger her every turn cycle, which makes the comparison to planeswalkers even less favorable.

Put another way: she costs exactly the same as Dack Fayden, and Dack Fayden has some significant advantages over her: doesn't die to Bolt, Swords, Dismember, or other common creature removal; has a relevant ability besides just sculpting your hand; and can sculpt your hand in the absence of anything else going on, which means he supports both tempo decks and draw-go decks. And even then, Dack sees very little play in this format.

I think your spot on, on all counts. I just don't see a marginal 3 drop that doesn't really do anything on it's own as being legacy playable...

Now in modern she might see some play.

[Lemnear]

I think your spot on, on all counts. I just don't see a marginal 3 drop that doesn't really do anything on it's own as being legacy playable...

Now in modern she might see some play.

I don't know if the card even holds up against Dark Confidant tbh

[maharis]

Surge gives me the same feeling Prowess did. Anything that synergizes with cheap spells has to be respected in Legacy. This guy in particular is interesting in Affinity, Pyromancer, and Mentor strategies:

http://i.imgur.com/v0SA32J.png

[GundamGuy]

I don't know if the card even holds up against Dark Confidant tbh

Agree not even in the same league. It's not a card that's going in decks that have access to B that's for sure.

I just don't see Reckless Bushwacker as that much better then Goblin Bushwacker to justify a more conditional card... but the 2/1 and Haste is not terrible.

[Jamaican Zombie Legend]

That's basically a worse version of Goblin Bushwhacker, which was a terrific Standard card but never quite made the leap to deeper formats.

Jori-En is cool, but seems like another "almost there" 3CMC Legendary a la Brimaz. There's some serious potential there, but Eternal formats already have such a dizzying power level, making it difficult for cards to break in.

That said, I think it stands a better chance of Legacy play than Modern play. Modern U/R/x shells don't have the density of cantrips and free countermagic, available in Legacy U/x shells, to make the most of her abilities. And there are a awful lot of bolts being tossed around in Modern. I think Snapcaster plus Kommand/Visions will still be the go-to, grindy engine of card advantage.

[jrsthethird]

Jori En might make Merfolk actually run Brainstorm.


There's some curious interaction with Grafted Wargear and token producers like Abzan Ascendancy, but it's unlikely to be worth the effort in legacy.

Except that by the time the Wargear trigger resolves, the creature is no longer equipped and you don't draw the card. You would need another equipment (Lightning Greaves or another Wargear) for the combo to work.

[Darkenslight]

Agree not even in the same league. It's not a card that's going in decks that have access to B that's for sure.

I just don't see Reckless Bushwacker as that much better then Goblin Bushwacker to justify a more conditional card... but the 2/1 and Haste is not terrible.

I can see a semi-viable UR Storm list with Empty and this being utterly viable, or potentially a RW tokens list in Modern, with four of these.

[Zombie]

I can see a semi-viable UR Storm list with Empty and this being utterly viable, or potentially a RW tokens list in Modern, with four of these.

Goblin Bushwhacker

[Cire]

Support just seems like one of those mechanics that they didn't actually need to keyword...

Cohort is pretty bad too.

[rufus]

...
Except that by the time the Wargear trigger resolves, the creature is no longer equipped and you don't draw the card. You would need another equipment (Lightning Greaves or another Wargear) for the combo to work.

Yeah. Bad idea is bad.

Another bad idea is some kind of Scythe of the Wretched suicide loop with Triskelion.


Cohort is pretty bad too.
So is rally. They'll be running out of nice keywords the same way they're running out of nice card names sooner or later.

[rufus]

Regarding actual spoilers, does Ruins of Oran Rief have any traction in Affinity, or is CiPT just too terrible?

[GundamGuy]

Regarding actual spoilers, does Ruins of Oran Rief have any traction in Affinity, or is CiPT just too terrible?

CiPT is too terrible.

[iamajellydonut]

CiPT is too terrible.

100% kill rate.

[Cire]

100% kill rate.

Almost: Boseiju, Who Shelters All, Creeping Tar Pit, Bojuka Bog see some play :tongue:

[iamajellydonut]

Yawgmoth's Will :2::b:
Sorcery
Yawgmoth's Will gets put onto the stack tapped.

[rufus]

Yawgmoth's Will :2::b:
Sorcery
Yawgmoth's Will gets put onto the stack tapped.

Day's Undoing has the sorcery version of comes into play tapped.

[GundamGuy]

Eldrazi Mimic is an intresting card... a bit better then the other "mimics" that exist.

[sjmcc13]

Eldrazi Mimic is an intresting card... a bit better then the other "mimics" that exist. mimic > dreadnaught seems fun.
Not sure if it will make it to competitive Legacy, but it seems like a fun card to build around, and I think it will see constructed play in some form.

[rufus]

Eldrazi Mimic is an intresting card... a bit better then the other "mimics" that exist.

Doesn't seem *that* different from Renegade Doppelganger. Of course you can play both to enable t3 dreadnought or whatever.

[Cire]

Mimic seems only worth it with Phyrexian Dreadnought, and we already have stiffle and trickbind which can double as Fetch Hate slash random solutions (and pitch to FOW).

[GundamGuy]

Doesn't seem *that* different from Renegade Doppelganger. Of course you can play both to enable t3 dreadnought or whatever.

True that, I was thinking about the Mimics from Lorwyn–Shadowmoor block.


Cohort is pretty bad too.

Fixed.

[rufus]

Mimic seems only worth it with Phyrexian Dreadnought, and we already have stiffle and trickbind which can double as Fetch Hate slash random solutions (and pitch to FOW).

You could also use the mimic for pseudo-haste with Phyrexian Soulgorger and then feed the mimic to the soulgorger to get a second swing. No evasion and a whole lot more mana, but 16 damage is respectable.

[apple713]

If anything you would use renegade and eldrazi mimics together to increase the consistency of the deck since they are so similar. You could use artificers ontuition to search up dreadnaughts. Stifles too to repurpose and maybe some myr retrievers.

[GundamGuy]

I was thinking more about this Mimic, and then I realized how disapointed I am that this didn't cost {C}...

[Barook]

I was wondering what application Eldrazi Mimic could have. Screwing around with Dreadnoughts is cute and all, but 12 chumpable damage won't win you jackshit.

The shell that makes the most sense to me is a Monored Sneak/Through the Break deck with colorless creatures, preferable Annihilator Eldrazi.

T1 Sol Land, Mimic
T2 Red Source, Seething Song, Sneak/Through the Breach, Eldrazi Giant of choice, swing with 20+ damage while clearing the board

Is it better than Worldspine Wurm/Inferno Titan? I don't know, maybe not. Just food for thought.

[The Crow's Eye]

Force of Will would make the Sneak player cry. Hard. Force the Song and then you get smashed.

[rufus]

I was wondering what application Eldrazi Mimic could have. Screwing around with Dreadnoughts is cute and all, but 12 chumpable damage won't win you jackshit. ...


With the dreadnaught to you feed the mimic to the dreadnaught for 12/12 trample (unless 12 damage wins).

[Jamaican Zombie Legend]

Call the Gatewatch

2W

Rare

Sorcery

Search your library for a planeswalker card, reveal it, and put it into your hand. Then shuffle your library.

http://i.imgur.com/8DCNUbP.png

I was wondering when a Planeswalker tutor would be printed. And though I'm mildly disappointed that "Planeswalkers matter" wasn't a Red mechanic (FRIENDSHIP! EMOTION! WEAK JUSTIFICATIONS!), it's good to see it in White.

Although it's still a very weird card in general. It's stone cold unplayable in Limited unless you P1P1 a Gideon or something, in which case it becomes copy number 2 of a game-breaking Mythic. In Constructed it's a tutor that picks up engines of value rather than silver bullets, which is kinda odd.

Interesting to say the least.

[Dice_Box]

What would be it home in Legacy though? Nic Fit walkers? That's normally BUG is it not? Is this enough of an effect to splash? Have I underused the question mark in this post?

[Barook]

What would be it home in Legacy though? Nic Fit walkers? That's normally BUG is it not? Is this enough of an effect to splash? Have I underused the question mark in this post?
Why not Junk Superfriends Nic Fit? But then again, why would Nic Fit run this card when they could just run the Diabolic Intent instead which is a) cheaper, b) more flexible and c) more synergistic with the shell?

Edit: Whoever came up with the flavour of "The Avengers: Planeswalkers Edition" should be fired immediately. What's next? Karn joining to be Iron Man (or in his case, Silver Man)?

Nissa was also more entertaining when she was Elf Hitler instead of a useless hippie who loses her connection to Zendikar every 5 minutes.

[Bobmans]

Why not Junk Superfriends Nic Fit? But then again, why would Nic Fit run this card when they could just run the Diabolic Intent instead which is a) cheaper, b) more flexible and c) more synergistic with the shell?
Junk superfriends sounds super awesome. But, a. Combo matchup which already sucks would probably even suck more. b. The current Junk version is more likely to be the better deck in any field.
That said, you are probably right about D.Intent being the better choice. Next to the usual library manipulation anyway.

[GundamGuy]

http://i.imgur.com/8DCNUbP.png

I was wondering when a Planeswalker tutor would be printed. And though I'm mildly disappointed that "Planeswalkers matter" wasn't a Red mechanic (FRIENDSHIP! EMOTION! WEAK JUSTIFICATIONS!), it's good to see it in White.

Although it's still a very weird card in general. It's stone cold unplayable in Limited unless you P1P1 a Gideon or something, in which case it becomes copy number 2 of a game-breaking Mythic. In Constructed it's a tutor that picks up engines of value rather than silver bullets, which is kinda odd.

Interesting to say the least.
I think at 3 mana this card isn't going to really cause a huge splash.... but it's really hard to be sure of that, since this a little bit of uncharted territory. Tutors like Diabolic Intent can find Planeswalkers but anything less then CMC 3 has a drawback or is banned...


http://i.imgur.com/8DCNUbP.png
Although it's still a very weird card in general. It's stone cold unplayable in Limited unless you P1P1 a Gideon or something, in which case it becomes copy number 2 of a game-breaking Mythic. In Constructed it's a tutor that picks up engines of value rather than silver bullets, which is kinda odd.

Interesting to say the least.

P1P1 a Gideon into this card isn't actually possible is it... what's the Draft Format going to be? I thought it was Oath, Oath, Battle...

[Ace/Homebrew]

Modern card will see play in Modern. Foils will be worth something in several years cause EDH. :rolleyes:

[Cire]

Idk if it will even see play in modern . . . it's just a bad tutor. There's no such thing as a planeswalker "bullet", and thus no need for a planeswalker tutor.

[Finn]

I agree with Cire. This thing is very conservatively costed a 3 and sorcery. Terribad.

[H]

It's not hard to imagine a deck that would want to tutor for a Planeswalker. It is hard to imagine a good deck that would want to tutor for a Planeswalker though.

I feel reasonably sure it's an EDH card, not much more.

[Tylert]

I agree with Cire. This thing is very conservatively costed a 3 and sorcery. Terribad.

also, this is not a limited edition like the one with idyllic tutor. Also, there is currently no combo to be done with it...
So terribad yes, and not as expensive as iddyllic tutor is...

[Barook]

Looks like Pikula had sex with a jellyfish (http://media.wizards.com/2015/ogw_239nCi30ks3/en_3Ho3agC4hr.png). :eyebrow:

Edit: Wrong animal.

[MaximumC]

Looks like Pikula had sex with a squid (http://media.wizards.com/2015/ogw_239nCi30ks3/en_3Ho3agC4hr.png). :eyebrow:

Wow, that's actually pretty solid. It's like Detain, only after the effect wears off they gotta cast the creature again. It's not as good as putting the creature on the top of the library, though. The fact that it comes with a reasonable 2/3 body attached, though? Seems like an excellent way to get huge tempo or to clear the way for your next turn combo.

[Darkenslight]

No, the RW manland has been confirmed...and it's awful. :2: :r: :w: activation for a 2/1 double-striker. Name is Needle Spires.

In addition, that whole 1DE Uncommon cycle, except the GW one, is rather strong for Standard and Limited.

Also, there's a Chinese spoiler of a 3/1 haste for 2R, with a 1C cast-trigger Threaten. Weaker than Zealous Conscripts, but a potent ability nonetheless.

[Dice_Box]

Looks like Pikula had sex with a jellyfish (http://media.wizards.com/2015/ogw_239nCi30ks3/en_3Ho3agC4hr.png). :eyebrow:

Edit: Wrong animal.
Third time tonight I have gone to quote someone and ended up in the edit post page... Anyway I like this card as a Limited/Cube card. Constructed its not really much of anything but as a tempo play in Limited. Oh I like. From what little I have seen this looks like it could come off well as a limited set.

[MaximumC]

No, the RW manland has been confirmed...and it's awful. :2: :r: :w: activation for a 2/1 double-striker. Name is Needle Spires.

In addition, that whole 1DE Uncommon cycle, except the GW one, is rather strong for Standard and Limited.


Really? They all seem pretty weak to me, except the 1UW one.

Flayer Drone is a worse version of Nettle Drone.
Mindmelter is a worse version of Dimir Guildmage.
Reckless Hunter pumps itself for 3 mana (lol)
Jorga Auxiliary pumps two other creatures for 6 mana (roffle)


Third time tonight I have gone to quote someone and ended up in the edit post page... Anyway I like this card as a Limited/Cube card. Constructed its not really much of anything but as a tempo play in Limited. Oh I like. From what little I have seen this looks like it could come off well as a limited set.

It's sweet for Vintage, though. The only interesting cards are probably going to be dirt cheap because they're not flashy.

[Dice_Box]

It's sweet for Vintage, though. The only interesting cards are probably going to be dirt cheap because they're not flashy.
Yea, I can see it against Shops. Oath its not really going to stop and Grixis is not really a thing right now but yes, I can see it happening.

[MaximumC]

Yea, I can see it against Shops. Oath its not really going to stop and Grixis is not really a thing right now but yes, I can see it happening.

I dont mean Piku-Jelly specifically. I'd be surprised if he sees play. I'm talking about Jori En, Ruin Diver and that card-draw land that evogua posted about.

[Dice_Box]

I dont mean Piku-Jelly specifically. I'd be surprised if he sees play. I'm talking about Jori En, Ruin Diver and that card-draw land that evogua posted about.
I think the Bounce and delay effect could see some play. I do not know if the Fish will see much play in the format though. The main tempo decks in the colours are trying not to run 3 drops if they can manage it and already draw so much off of Gush, Recall, Cruise, Dig and to a limited extent cards like Dack. (Granted that's selection.) I do not see to many of them playing this girl as a way to do what they can already do very well for less mana.

[MaximumC]

I think the Bounce and delay effect could see some play. I do not know if the Fish will see much play in the format though. The main tempo decks in the colours are trying not to run 3 drops if they can manage it and already draw so much off of Gush, Recall, Cruise, Dig and to a limited extent cards like Dack. (Granted that's selection.) I do not see to many of them playing this girl as a way to do what they can already do very well for less mana.

Well, since I guess we're cross-posting from the Drain for the benefit of TheSource now:

JORI
1. Closest Comparators:
- Dark Confidant
- Mystic Remora
- Edric, Spymaster of Trest
- Cold-Eyed Selkie
- Heartwood Storyteller

2. Advantages
- Good creature type, lets you use cavern for Wizards or Merfolk, gets pumped by Merfolk lords (sometimes relevant)
- Good colors, commonly played, and pitches to Force
- Ability (when it triggers) is vintage-relevant
- Ability fuels itself once it gets going - you draw more cards so you can cast more cards.
- Ability can be used twice each turn cycle if you have the gas for it
- Cooperates nicely with other UR staples like Tiago and Young Pyromancer (though the later frustratingly doesnt share a creature type)
- Rewards you for doing something that tempo decks want to be doing anyway; playing lots of cards quickly
- 2/3 body blocks hatebears all day long

3. Drawbacks
- Competes for a slot with Dack Fayden, who offers more versatility and a more reliable dig ability
- Too slow for storm/dredge/oath/shops matchups (half the metagame!)
- Does not impede shops creatures
- Vulnerable to bolt/stp/REB, very commonly played nowadays
- Bad in a control deck because it does nothing while you play draw-go (so Menedians' "shift into control" doesn't work well)
- 3 is quite slow for a tempo-based card
- The best way to get instant value from Jori are to play cards you should have already played before reaching 3 mana anyway (Gush, Moxen, Probe) and so you either draw them randomly later, making her inconsistent, or you waited to play them earlier, possibly hobbling your development.

[Barook]

We got a new Linvala - with a Timely Reinforcement variant attached to her. :rolleyes:

http://227rsi2stdr53e3wto2skssd7xe.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/Linvala-the-Preserver_EN_HRR.png

[MaximumC]

We got a new Linvala - with a Timely Reinforcement variant attached to her. :rolleyes:

http://227rsi2stdr53e3wto2skssd7xe.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/Linvala-the-Preserver_EN_HRR.png

Hey, if we need bad sets to avoid being Yu Gi Oh, then bring em on.

[Dice_Box]

The artwork is sweet, sadly she is no Baneslayer levels of sweet in either art nor effect.

[TsumiBand]

It's kind of a bummer that "bounce back" cards are eternally terrible, but that's just the nature of games like this; when a card falls into "win more" or "lose less" territory you really do need to question why you'd even run such a thing instead of running a thing that keeps you from attaining that board state in the first place.

I like the card okay, but it ultimately will never do anything meaningful. 6 mana for 8/8 worth of creature hasn't been impressive for quite a long time.

[GundamGuy]

It's kind of a bummer that "bounce back" cards are eternally terrible, but that's just the nature of games like this; when a card falls into "win more" or "lose less" territory you really do need to question why you'd even run such a thing instead of running a thing that keeps you from attaining that board state in the first place.

I like the card okay, but it ultimately will never do anything meaningful. 6 mana for 8/8 worth of creature hasn't been impressive for quite a long time.

6 mana is a tall order in legacy...

That said 8/8 of flying goodness on two creatures + 5 life seems pretty great. Just not legacy great.

[Barook]

It's kind of a bummer that "bounce back" cards are eternally terrible, but that's just the nature of games like this; when a card falls into "win more" or "lose less" territory you really do need to question why you'd even run such a thing instead of running a thing that keeps you from attaining that board state in the first place.

I like the card okay, but it ultimately will never do anything meaningful. 6 mana for 8/8 worth of creature hasn't been impressive for quite a long time.
If she was more aggressively costed and without being conditional, she would be kinda cool with Karakas.

In the end, it's a pretty boring Mythic and nowhere as good as her original version. But that applies to the entire BFZ block so far.

[Aggro_zombies]

It's kind of a bummer that "bounce back" cards are eternally terrible, but that's just the nature of games like this; when a card falls into "win more" or "lose less" territory you really do need to question why you'd even run such a thing instead of running a thing that keeps you from attaining that board state in the first place.
They exist to help control decks stabilize, particularly big-mana, sorcery-speed control decks that don't exist in Legacy anymore (think Rifter). Against all-in aggro decks, there's usually a turn or two before they run out of cards where you're in very real danger of dying but may have exhausted your supply of removal, or may be mono-removal but be in burn range, and you don't necessarily have the time or the mana to cast a draw spell to find more of what you're missing. Cards like this are great for filling in that gap.

Linvala specifically is interesting for that style of control deck because she's both a good stabilizing tool and a finisher. You cast her on turn six, you gain some life, she probably blocks to death anything they have (or baits a pump spell from Atarka Red), and then when the coast is clear she ends the game in a hurry. Six may be slightly too much for this in Standard right now, and she's worse as an actual finisher than something like Dragonlord Ojutai, but she might be worth testing.

[Dice_Box]

But what about when Dragonlord Ojutai rotates? Right now she might be outshone, but it's possible that in the future that role might be hers.

[(nameless one)]

I see that there's a Planeswalker Tutor. It would be cool to see a (sorcery speed) Flash variant for planeswalkers.

[TsumiBand]

I didn't realize she had Kicker with Standard. I haven't really looked at Standard for a long time.

The only "come from behind" cards that ever really stood out to me were the Pulses from Mirrodin 1.0. Gain 4 life on-a-stick while you triage threats is pretty legit. I like that you mentioned Rifter; I miss Astral Slide. :/

[Darkenslight]

They exist to help control decks stabilize, particularly big-mana, sorcery-speed control decks that don't exist in Legacy anymore (think Rifter). Against all-in aggro decks, there's usually a turn or two before they run out of cards where you're in very real danger of dying but may have exhausted your supply of removal, or may be mono-removal but be in burn range, and you don't necessarily have the time or the mana to cast a draw spell to find more of what you're missing. Cards like this are great for filling in that gap.

Linvala specifically is interesting for that style of control deck because she's both a good stabilizing tool and a finisher. You cast her on turn six, you gain some life, she probably blocks to death anything they have (or baits a pump spell from Atarka Red), and then when the coast is clear she ends the game in a hurry. Six may be slightly too much for this in Standard right now, and she's worse as an actual finisher than something like Dragonlord Ojutai, but she might be worth testing.

Ojutai is literally better than this Linvala, at almost every stage of the game.

She does, however, make a very interesting Reanimate target, though. Sadly, she has to compete with other, much better cards for that slot.

[GundamGuy]

I didn't realize she had Kicker with Standard. I haven't really looked at Standard for a long time.

The only "come from behind" cards that ever really stood out to me were the Pulses from Mirrodin 1.0. Gain 4 life on-a-stick while you triage threats is pretty legit. I like that you mentioned Rifter; I miss Astral Slide. :/

Timely Reinforcements would like a word with you.

[TsumiBand]

Timely Reinforcements would like a word with you.

That's exactly what I'm talking about. Did that ever even work? It seems so awkward.

[H]

That's exactly what I'm talking about. Did that ever even work? It seems so awkward.

Timely is a really good card. Mostly because it costs 3 mana though. It could be argued though that Timely actually does even more than the Angel, since it gains more life and makes more bodies, even if they are smaller bodies.

[Jamaican Zombie Legend]

Linvala seems less like a control finisher and more like Yet-Another-Midrange-Value-Critter, basically a conditional Thragtusk designed to break up Gideon, Ally of Zendikar stalemates in Standard G/W/x mirrors and shore up the RDW wins matchup (if it was playing like a traditional Red Aggro deck and not utilizing the Become Immense/Temur Battle Rage "combo", which will often kill before the durdly U/W/x decks can hit 6 mana).

[Aggro_zombies]

Timely is a really good card. Mostly because it costs 3 mana though. It could be argued though that Timely actually does even more than the Angel, since it gains more life and makes more bodies, even if they are smaller bodies.
Being able to chain a draw spell or removal spell into Timely on turns six through eight is the secret sauce here. Also, Timely is at its best against the sort of all-in aggro deck that doesn't really exist in Legacy anymore, which is why it - and the new Linvala - doesn't see any play.

[jrsthethird]

Game Day Playmat:

http://media.wizards.com/2015/ogw_239nCi30ks3/MEN3omQvLw.png

Is Chandra checking out Jace or what?

I mean, look at that smirk on his face. He knows.

[Barook]

Is Chandra checking out Jace or what?

I mean, look at that smirk on his face. He knows.
He's a telepath. Of course he knows.

What if the entire Gatewatch Oath is nothing more than a ploy to get more Planeswalker poon?

At the very least, Chandra looks drunk and Jace stoned.

[kirkusjones]

He's a telepath. Of course he knows.

What if the entire Gatewatch Oath is nothing more than a ploy to get more Planeswalker poon?

At the very least, Chandra looks drunk and Jace stoned.

"If we defeat the Eldrazi and liberate the opressed peoples of Zendikar, think of all the puss we could totally crush, bro!"
- Jace Beleren to Gideon Jura

https://brobible.files.wordpress.com/2015/11/crush-640x358.png?w=650&h=364

[GundamGuy]

What if the entire Gatewatch Oath is nothing more than a ploy to get more Planeswalker poon?


Reckless Bushwacker... think about it.

[Bobmans]

Game Day Playmat:

http://media.wizards.com/2015/ogw_239nCi30ks3/MEN3omQvLw.png

Is Chandra checking out Jace or what?

I mean, look at that smirk on his face. He knows.
They are talking about what a great project their on. All is missing is a cup of coffee.

[Darkenslight]

New spoiler that may or may not be interesting:

PRophet of Distortion :u:
Creature - Eldrazi
:3: :C: : Draw a card.
1/2

Don't think it has any applications in Standard, but for Blue Tron, it could be very interesting.

[Jamaican Zombie Legend]

New spoiler that may or may not be interesting:

PRophet of Distortion :u:
Creature - Eldrazi
:3: :C: : Draw a card.
1/2

Don't think it has any applications in Standard, but for Blue Tron, it could be very interesting.

While it is a really neat mana-sink at first glance, it costs 6UCC to draw two cards at Sorcery speed...Thirst For Knowledge is much better at generating card advantage efficiently.

Now if it was a 0/4 we would be in business. Something to shore up Blue Tron's awful aggro matchups would be very welcome, especially if it drew cards later on.

[GundamGuy]

While it is a really neat mana-sink at first glance, it costs 6UCC to draw two cards at Sorcery speed...Thirst For Knowledge is much better at generating card advantage efficiently.

Now if it was a 0/4 we would be in business. Something to shore up Blue Tron's awful aggro matchups would be very welcome, especially if it drew cards later on.

It isn't very efficient, but Thirst for Knowledge isn't a permanent... however I don't see you getting many activation's off of this guy because of the price (Maybe in MUD+U, or 12 post... but do they want something like this.......) and the body is lackluster... so I don't see this making waves in Modern or Legacy.

I agree that it would be better as a 0/3 or 0/4.

[iamajellydonut]

I agree that it would be better as a 0/3 or 0/4.

Or even 2/1. 1/2 is honestly about as useful as 1/1.

Speaking of which, since when is U 1/2 baseline?

[Cire]

Embodiment of Fury 3R
Creature - Elemental U
Trample
Land creatures you control have trample.
Landfall — Whenever a land enters the battlefield under your control, you may have target land you control becomes a 3/3 Elemental creature with haste until end of turn. It's still a land.
4/3


With fetches. . . it is almost equivalent to 10 power on a 4 mana creature? Dragon Stompy?

[Ace/Homebrew]

Dragon Stompy?
doesn't use fetch lands

[Cire]

doesn't use fetch lands

I don't see why it couldn't though if it felt like the above card was worth it? I don't think they can run 8, but:

4 Magus of the Moon
4 Simian Spirit Guide
2 Arc-Slogger
4 Embodiment of Fury
4 Moltensteel Dragon
4 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Blood Moon
4 Seething Song
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Chrome Mox
4 Trinisphere
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Snow-Covered Mountain
6 Fetch

That could be vaguely consistent - I think the real question is whether playing the card is even worth it though . . .

[Tylert]

doesn't use fetch lands

Start Brewing then! :)

[Ace/Homebrew]

4 Magus of the Moon
4 Simian Spirit Guide
2 Arc-Slogger
4 Embodiment of Fury
4 Moltensteel Dragon
4 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Blood Moon
4 Seething Song
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Chrome Mox
4 Trinisphere
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Snow-Covered Mountain
6 Fetch
Chrome Mox requires a colored non-artifact to be imprinted on it. You're list has 22 imprintable red cards, two of which are Arc-Slogger...
Why not suggest Lands play Embodiment of Fury? They're mostly lands so must be good right?






Edit: I'm coming across as more annoyed than I actually am. But I fully understand how Finn feels when every newly spoiled white weenie becomes a suggestion for Death and Taxes.


I think the real question is whether playing the card is even worth it though . . .
Dragon Stompy runs enough terrible cards, it doesn't need this one too. :tongue:

[Cire]

Chrome Mox requires a colored non-artifact to be imprinted on it. You're list has 22 imprintable red cards, two of which are Arc-Slogger...
Why not suggest Lands play Embodiment of Fury? They're mostly lands so must be good right?

Edit: I'm coming across as more annoyed than I actually am. But I fully understand how Finn feels when every newly spoiled white weenie becomes a suggestion for Death and Taxes.

Dragon Stompy runs enough terrible cards, it doesn't need this one too. :tongue:

Ha, yeah sorry - I'm just looking for any cards that might be useful. The above list was actually taken from the Dragon Stompy OP "latest list" just replacing FTK with EoF. I am not sure how much the deck wants a straight up beater - but thought that a 10 power four mana red creature deserved some consideration :tongue:

[Tom4ik]

We can still have the "This could go in Nic-Fit because its CMC >3 right?" discussion.

[Dice_Box]

We can still have the "This could go in Nic-Fit because its CMC >3 right?" discussion.
I suggested Nic Fit due to superfreinds being the only place it could possibly have a home in, not due to its mana cost. Even then it was a question.

[rufus]

Or even 2/1. 1/2 is honestly about as useful as 1/1.

Speaking of which, since when is U 1/2 baseline?

People do their share of complaining about the 1/2 on DRS. On a creature with useful abilities extra back end can be a big deal. Drawing a card for 4 mana... not so exciting.

[Barook]

I'm not too sure what to make out of this card:

http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/avatars/thumbnails/81/594/200/283/635871524141250088.png

It doesn't seem terrible, but it's also not looking totally great, either.

I assume we get Oaths for the other Walkers as well?

[Dice_Box]

I just hope his oath means he stays on Zendikar and gets the hell out of our hair. Only so long a Mary Sue can stick around for before we all grow tired of it.

[Bed Decks Palyer]

Omg, that's amazing! A card that is named after Jace! I mean, just look at it, it also has Jace's pichure!

:rolleyes:

I guess it's not Legacy playable. It might find some use in a slower Reanimator/Gifts combo/control deck that seeks as much CA as possible before firing the combo. I doubt that Reani would be reasonable approch, but something akin to 8 Tezz might be good. Contrary to Careful Study (or Faithless Boobies) this one dodges CotV at 1, and in an already grave-dependant deck (Gifts, Intuition, LftL, etc.) this might be viable, namely if it would be used to discard the non-DRSable card types. (I'm mostly thinking of artifacts becasue Academy Ruins are card and we already want the Jace+Tezz duo.)

[GundamGuy]

I'm not too sure what to make out of this card:

http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/avatars/thumbnails/81/594/200/283/635871524141250088.png

It doesn't seem terrible, but it's also not looking totally great, either.

I assume we get Oaths for the other Walkers as well?
The only think I can think of when I see this card is...

"Oath of Jace" Really?

Is Jace swearing a oath to take on the roles and responsabilities of being Jace?

Shouldn't this be "Jace's Oath"? As in the Oath that Jace took?

This Oath is not great... well maybe in 8-Tezz as someone pointed out... but maybe "Oath of Chandra" will be pretty good.

Lets start thinking about what the ETB and Upkeep effects will be...

Deal 3 damange to target creature or player, deal damange equal to the number of planeswalkers you control to target creature or player....

[apple713]

Game Day Playmat:

http://media.wizards.com/2015/ogw_239nCi30ks3/MEN3omQvLw.png

.

I just woke up so i may not be seeing things clearly hut why are there only 4x planeswalkers ? We have 5 colrs right?

[Barook]

Deal 3 damange to target creature or player, deal damange equal to the number of planeswalkers you control to target creature or player....
Damage to creatures would generate CA. Make the PW ability only ping players and I think you're on spot.


I just hope his oath means he stays on Zendikar and gets the hell out of our hair. Only so long a Mary Sue can stick around for before we all grow tired of it.
I'm sorry to disappoint you, but Jace is already confirmed as the face of Shadows over Innistrad. The whole point of the Gatewatch thing is making them their to-go storyline team. Expect alot more of them in the future. Jace isn't even the worst offender - retconned Nissa is.

I read the latest Unchartered Realms story and her part was probably some of the worst writing I've ever read in my entire life. At least Ob Nixilis in the second part is an entertaining villain, mud-wrestling with Captain Theros before he drowns him like a bitch.

edit: @apple713: Maybe more people join later. Sorin seems like a likely candidate once he has dealt with his "Search for Nahiri" quest. Liliana is just too much of a bitch to join, besides he has business hunting her remaining demons.

[Dice_Box]

I just woke up so i may not be seeing things clearly hut why are there only 4x planeswalkers ? We have 5 colrs right?
Liliana has her hands tied with an Angel that is busy being corrupted caused by being locked in the Hellvault. Still there are 3 other known walkers on Zendikar right now that are not getting face time.

[kirkusjones]

I just woke up so i may not be seeing things clearly hut why are there only 4x planeswalkers ? We have 5 colrs right?


Ob-Nixilis will be continuing his oath to fuck shit up. They reference him on that Remorseless Punishment card, so I would assume he's still hanging around on Zendikar.

[Cire]

Can someone summarize what all the known PW's are doing? I for one though Nissa was still hating on vampires or something like that. . .

[Bed Decks Palyer]

I just woke up so i may not be seeing things clearly hut why are there only 4x planeswalkers ? We have 5 colrs right?
Liliana is invisible because she became colorless after she had sex Ulamog.



Oath of Jace might be fine in the 8 Tezz deck as it removes a bit of a duty from JTMS. Instead of Brainstorming you may fateseal/unsummon when necessary, but you'll still have your card selection, although weaker than jacestorm.
Combined with some draw+grave tricks (Thirst for Knowledge, Gifts, Intuition come to mind), this might be an interesting approach. I believe that thisshould kil throguh some kind of artifact combo (why else you'd need that much CQ tools?) maybe with Goblin Welder or w/e.
UBr Reanimtor-8Tezz hybrid? Turn2 Sundering Titan seems legit.

[Dice_Box]

Can someone summarize what all the known PW's are doing? I for one though Nissa was still hating on vampires or something like that. . .
Gideon is busy getting masses of people killed as he learns not everyone is as skilled as he is in battle.

Jace is busy disobeying a much older and more powerful walker because he is an angst filled teen and he knows best. (and will save the day with his plan of killing the Eldrazi instead of trapping them. Of course.)

Chandra just arrived, late to the party and forgot the beer. She did though bring the kerosene so maybe they can get a bonfire going.

Nissa is fucking around with her wish to save her mostly doomed homeland. She is doing not to bad a job of it. Fucked over Ob and thus ate the tail end of his rage for it.

Ob Nixilis wanted his spark back, got it at the cost of totally fucking everyone over and breaking the network they had to hold one of the big beasties in place, then called another from slumber.

Nahiri is MIA but really needs to show the fuck up.

Ugin is doing his thing trying to trap the fuckers again, but his knowledge of the network is slim and he has been out of the game a while. Still thinks trapping the 3 is a good idea, Jace appears to disagree.

[maharis]

I'm not too sure what to make out of this card:

http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/avatars/thumbnails/81/594/200/283/635871524141250088.png

It doesn't seem terrible, but it's also not looking totally great, either.

I assume we get Oaths for the other Walkers as well?

Really? I saw this and immediately thought: "This is the worst card ever printed." Let's break it down:

Sorcery-speed legendary permanent that doesn't affect the board. That's a lot to swallow for any effect.

The ETB effect: Draw 3, discard 2. So it's basically card-neutral filtering, but given the fact that you have to main phase this and resolve it to get that effect, the benefit of the filter is likely to be delayed. In Standard, discarding cards has some utility with JVP and a few recursive/reanimation options... but nothing that isn't likely better enabled by Artificer's Epiphany or Monastery Siege, which are much better in multiples. Obviously in any non-rotating/eternal format, this is the bottom of the barrel for filtering effects (even modern has Faithless Looting, Forbidden Alchemy, Catalog, etc.)

The static effect: CONDITIONAL scry. This already exists in Standard at similar costs with cards like Retreat to Coralhelm, Jace's Sanctum, or Shadows of the Past and those cards are already played very little (with the exception of Retreat which I think is seeing some fringe play). And you need another card on board to get the scry, which you also can only resolve at sorcery speed AND have to untap with BOTH to get SCRY 1.

Obviously the dream is likely t2 JVP, t3 this, flip Jace, shrink a creature (you can't flash anything back because you have no mana), t4 scry 1 because your JVP is still alive. However, did JVP need any help being a good card?

Further planeswalkers are such huge bombs that spending your third turn not affecting the board before you play one on turn 4 to get the slight benefit of scry for having one on board on turn 5 just sounds terrible.

Both effects are wholly unimaginative to boot.

Aesthetics: The name, art, and flavor text on this card are all hot garbage. Didn't we just have some sort of gate-based block? Does anyone over there own a thesaurus? This is also rare that requires mythics to get full value, making it basically unplayable in limited unless draw 3 discard 2 is helpful for working through mana clumps. Still I am pretty sure there will be 23 better cards in any given pool (at least there should be).

Worst cards in history: What are the nominees? Sorrow's Path? Search the City? Carnival of Souls? What those all have in common is that you can at least somewhat try to build around them for fun. You jam Sorrow's Path with Boros Reckoner, or Carnival with some sort of gravecrawler-soul warden-sac outlet combo. But there's nothing fun about building around this card. Planeswalkers are good anyway, and draw 3 discard 2 is wholly unremarkable for your fun casual deck. Even shit creatures like Vizzerdrix attack and block and have creature types.

So you have an ugly, clunky, derivative rare with no appeal to any subset of players. Yes bad cards have to exist, yes not all cards are for all players, but this card is a steaming pile of garbage. And the worst part is it's probably part of an equally shitty cycle!

[Barook]

Can someone summarize what all the known PW's are doing? I for one though Nissa was still hating on vampires or something like that. . .
- Jace: punched in the face by Ob Nixilis
- Nissa: ASHAYA! ASHAYA! ASHAYA! - currently trapped in Kozilek's time distortion
- Captain Theros: mud-wrestled with Ob Nixilis, got drowned like a bitch (but isn't dead because plot armor)
- Chandra: no idea
- Ob Nixilis: is royally pissed, rekt'd bitches left and right
- Kiora: got rekt'd, lost her stolen Thassa bident

- Ugin: pissed at Sorin that Nahiri is gone
- Sorin: has to search for Nahiri
- Nahiri: ???

- Elspeth: currently busy being dead, but not really
- Ajani: pissed that Elspeth is dead

- Liliana: hunting her remaining 2 (?) demons
- Garruk: hunting Liliana due to the Veil curse

- Nicol Bolas: schemes for the sake of scheming without ever getting results

- Koth: stuck on New Phyrexia
- Karn: stuck on New Phyrexia

That are probably the most relevant Walkers.

[GundamGuy]

That are probably the most relevant Walkers.

How can you say that without listing Tibalt who is clearly the most important planeswalker.

[Dice_Box]

I think Lili is busy dealing with a corrupted Avacyn, hence the "Shadow".

[Barook]

I think Lili is busy dealing with a corrupted Avacyn, hence the "Shadow".
Lili killed Griselbrand - she has no business on Innistrad anymore. Why would she care about Avacyn? She has no connection to the plane aside from Griselbrand being there.

[Dice_Box]

Lili killed Griselbrand - she has no business on Innistrad anymore. Why would she care about Avacyn? She has no connection to the plane aside from Griselbrand being there.
No idea, that's the plot though from what I am told.

[GundamGuy]

No idea, that's the plot though from what I am told.

I heard that as well, but I wasn't sure if it was confirmed or speculation.

[supremePINEAPPLE]

This block is such a shitshow, I can't wait until we've moved on from this transition to the 2-block stuff that was designed that way from the start.

[GenghisTom]

This block is such a shitshow, I can't wait until we've moved on from this transition to the 2-block stuff that was designed that way from the start.

PLUS ONE

There's not even anything I really wanna try in my cube. Not to mention the devoid cards are just sooo ugly. Even if there was a playable I might not even put it in, they don't look like magic cards...

[GundamGuy]

This block is such a shitshow, I can't wait until we've moved on from this transition to the 2-block stuff that was designed that way from the start.

Now I don't want to rain on your parade, but why assume that things will get better just because the sets were designed with 2-set block structure in mind?

Welcome to the NWO, where wizards decides to introduce one of the biggest changes in magic in years, and then Maro goes on the record saying... eh maybe we'll come back to explore {C} mana in the future.... Maybe.

[joven]

I just woke up so i may not be seeing things clearly hut why are there only 4x planeswalkers ? We have 5 colrs right?

Liliana is too selfish (black color) to be part of the Gatewatch, and is maybe busy with Chainveil and demons



Liliana has her hands tied with an Angel that is busy being corrupted caused by being locked in the Hellvault. Still there are 3 other known walkers on Zendikar right now that are not getting face time.

Kiora vanished after getting beaten hard by Kozilek and losing the bident. :(

Ob Nixilis is pissed and evil and has absolutely no interest of joining the Gatewatch.

Ugin is ... I don't know ... waiting for Sorin and Nahiri.



Lili killed Griselbrand - she has no business on Innistrad anymore. Why would she care about Avacyn? She has no connection to the plane aside from Griselbrand being there.

Liliana got a "new" connection to Innistrad with Origins because WotC now claim she likes Innistrad and it would have been her first planeswalk destination. I think, it is written retroactively into the plot.
And I guess there could be other reasons for Liliana to go back to Innistrad e.g. another one of her demons making vacation there or something.

[joven]

There are now 11 mythics spoiled for OGW. Isn't that too much for a small set?

[iamajellydonut]

I can't wait until

I can't wait until a planeswalker-ocalypse comes along and fucks them all to death so that we can stop having contrived card types and asinine stories shoved down our throats.

[Barook]

There are now 11 mythics spoiled for OGW. Isn't that to much for a small set?
It was confirmed to have 12 mythics.


Liliana got a "new" connection to Innistrad with Origins because WotC now claim she likes Innistrad and it would have been her first planeswalk destination. I think, it is written retroactively into the plot.
And I guess there could be other reasons for Liliana to go back to Innistrad e.g. another one of her demons making vacation there or something.
God, I hate retcons.

[Ace/Homebrew]

I actually read the most recent 'story' this morning cause it's New Years Eve and work is slow...

The Nissa tale was okay. It got pretty bad when the POV switched from Nissa to Ob Nixilis though. Ob actually acknowledges that he should just planeswalk off Zendikar like he's wanted to for a thousand years... but why not fight some peeps anyway. Then after one of his wings gets destroyed by Gideon, he actually thinks to himself how handsome Gideon is. :rolleyes:

[GundamGuy]

I actually read the most recent 'story' this morning cause it's New Years Eve and work is slow...

The Nissa tale was okay. It got pretty bad when the POV switched from Nissa to Ob Nixilis though. Ob actually acknowledges that he should just planeswalk off Zendikar like he's wanted to for a thousand years... but why not fight some peeps anyway. Then after one of his wings gets destroyed by Gideon, he actually thinks to himself how handsome Gideon is. :rolleyes:

WTF... I'm glad I stopped reading them after Liliana just wanted Jace sempai to notice her.

[Barook]

WTF... I'm glad I stopped reading them after Liliana just wanted Jace sempai to notice her.
Was that before or after Jace gave her the D?


Then after one of his wings gets destroyed by Gideon, he actually thinks to himself how handsome Gideon is. :rolleyes:
And this gives the mud-wrestling a whole new context.

[GundamGuy]

Was that before or after Jace gave her the D?


It was after, when Jace woke up the next morning with no Liliana in sight, and only a note that said... "You were OK, see you around.... maybe? :wink:" Later when she got scared of the Chain Veil (because you know making a pact with 4 demons and Nicol Bolas is no big deal... but a piece of chain that goes in front of your face... is Too Spooky 4 Lili...) and ran back to Jace Sempai for help... but Jace was too busy not giving her the attention she secretly wanted, because as it turns out Jace was not just OK and is in fact the best at Everything! :tongue: Of course Liliana would never admit to wanting his attention so when Gideon Jura showed up and gave Jace the chance to continue on his quest to insert himself into every single block... she got pouty and left.

Lets not even get into the fact that Liliana is like 50x Jaces age...

[iamajellydonut]

In other news, the BG manland isn't terrible? I mean, I wish it had either a more substantial punch or a bigger ass and I probably wouldn't play it anyway, but it is fairly costed and has a form of "evasion"/utility.

http://mythicspoiler.com/ogw/cards/hissingquagmire.jpg

[death]

Kozilek killer.

[sjmcc13]

In other news, the BG manland isn't terrible? I mean, I wish it had either a more substantial punch or a bigger ass and I probably wouldn't play it anyway, but it is fairly costed and has a form of "evasion"/utility.

http://mythicspoiler.com/ogw/cards/hissingquagmire.jpg

I might consider it in a Modern Rock-type list, but I doubt it will make it to Legacy.

[Bed Decks Palyer]

Gideon Jura showed up and gave Jace the chance to continue on his quest to insert himself into every single hole...

Omg, I can't read this thread. Is Magic story really so dumbfucking stupid?
Seriously, they'd be better of with no story at all, look at chess, they work without all this 90210 shit.

edit: death, your new sig is sexy.

[sjmcc13]

Is Magic story really so dumbfucking stupid? I want to say no, but can not in good conscience.

Longer interconnected story lines (the weatherlight saga)would work better but they need more work and skill.

Reusing the same set of characters for (almost completly) unrelated story lines over and over can easily get bad fast.

[Bed Decks Palyer]

I want to say no, but can not in good conscience.

Longer interconnected story lines (the weatherlight saga)would work better but they need more work and skill.

Reusing the same set of characters for (almost completly) unrelated story lines over and over can easily get bad fast.

I'm afraid that this is due to the target audience being the young adults or even pubescents, and Jace + co. are appealing for them. Poster child characters. I wouldn't be so tired of them if at least they'd be interesting in any way. Also, they're a bit predictable:

Jace-Claude Van Segalienator
Liliana of The Wet Dreams
Chandra "Crazy Bitch" Crazy Bitch
Elspeth The Cook, The Whore, & The Mother

Personally, I only like Garruk, the archetypal Neanderthalean hunter-gatherer.


That GB manland is nice. It'll look lovely alongside Woodland Cemetary, new Overgrown Tomb, G-L Palace, Twilight Mire and Llanowar Wastes

[Aggro_zombies]

Magic's plot and characterization have never been particularly high quality, so let's get back on topic and discuss Oath spoilers instead.

[Dice_Box]

http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/attachments/148/711/635871724244091452.png
Well, looks like Stoneforge is a thing. Maybe Mystic is coming?

[The Crow's Eye]

Eh, maybe the BG manland will get picked up. I play Jund in Modern...I might try it in place of a Treetop Village. So that'd be 3 Ravine and 1 Quagmire. That Stoneforge piece seems to have been printed for the allies. A cheaper spin on Coat of Arms. Casuals will like it. I don't see it in Legacy. The only card of interest I've seen is the 2R Kozilek sweeper. I might try that in my Dragon Stompy shell.

The only good planeswalker story was the Tezzeret novel.

[Dice_Box]

What's the normal amount of Rares and Mythics for a set like this? I am hearing this one has 42/12 and that above normal for the set size.

[slave]

http://www.mtgsalvation.com/cards/oath-of-the-gatewatch/26249-jori-en-ruin-diver
Jori-En, Ruin Diver is one of quite a few that has grabbed my attention.
Legendary Merfolk Wizard, 1UR, 2/3
Whenever you cast your second spell each turn, draw a card.

Sure it's not something that Storm really needs, and this feels more like a Commander card than anything else;
UR Delver could find a place for it maybe?

[H]

What's the normal amount of Rares and Mythics for a set like this? I am hearing this one has 42/12 and that above normal for the set size.

I don't know, but this set has more.


We added ten more common cards, and a few more rare and mythic rare cards as well. The commons would help to add a little more variety from draft to draft. The higher-rarity cards would add more from draft to draft, as well as giving our players more cool cards to collect.

From this article here. (http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/feature/first-time-everything-2015-12-28)

[Dice_Box]

Wonder what that will do to the price of the chase cards then... Joy.

[jrsthethird]

In other news, the BG manland isn't terrible? I mean, I wish it had either a more substantial punch or a bigger ass and I probably wouldn't play it anyway, but it is fairly costed and has a form of "evasion"/utility.

http://mythicspoiler.com/ogw/cards/hissingquagmire.jpg

1/1 split with Shambling Vent in DGA?

[Lemnear]

http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/attachments/148/711/635871724244091452.png
Well, looks like Stoneforge is a thing. Maybe Mystic is coming?

Changeling?!

[Barook]

http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/attachments/148/711/635871724244091452.png
Well, looks like Stoneforge is a thing. Maybe Mystic is coming?
Most likely not. They're just rehashing memories of a good card while not delivering.

[iamajellydonut]

They're just rehashing memories of a good card while not delivering.

#nutshell

[Barook]

Green pseudo cantrip?

http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/attachments/148/724/635872376041190467.png

UR Manland

http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/attachments/148/725/635872376388161467.png

[Gheizen64]

Green pseudo cantrip?

http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/attachments/148/724/635872376041190467.png

UR Manland

http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/attachments/148/725/635872376388161467.png

Manland is actively terrible. Oath of Nissa is probably playable in something, enchantress?

[Bed Decks Palyer]

With this amount of manlands, soon the 43 Lands will be possible in Modern.

[The Crow's Eye]

The UR manland is Calcite Sapper without the upside.

[iamajellydonut]

With this amount of manlands, soon the 43 Lands will be possible in Modern.

Unless I miss my count, you should be able to have a competitive 84 Manland Modern deck by the end of this set.

Edit: 140 Manland Modern if the definition is expanded, and 144 Manland Modern if you choose to go for the Battle of Wits alt win-con.

[evanmartyr]

Oath of Nissa is pretty terrible in Enchantress...can't find enchantments. I suppose it finds lands, and then fixes your mana for all those planeswalkers it runs :rolleyes:

I don't think the manland is all that bad. I wish it weren't 4 to activate, but it can represent a 5 turn clock that dodges bolt.

[Vicar in a tutu]

Oath of Nissa is pretty terrible in Enchantress...can't find enchantments. I suppose it finds lands, and then fixes your mana for all those planeswalkers it runs :rolleyes:
Maybe in Maverick? Could even use Flickerwisp to flicker it for value. Just to maximize the cuteness: Play this and JTMS in Maverick.

[rufus]

Maybe in Maverick? Could even use Flickerwisp to flicker it for value. Just to maximize the cuteness: Play this and JTMS in Maverick.

It's not terrible with Riptide Chimera either. Even so, there really aren't any planeswalkers that care about enchanments (yet).

[Gheizen64]

Maybe tron too, Find all the things you need and can also be a pseudo - fixer for some more walkers

[DLifshitz]

Maybe tron too, Find all the things you need and can also be a pseudo - fixer for some more walkers

There are better options available for most Legacy and Modern decks that might want to play it: Mirri's Guile, Sylvan Library, Ancient Stirrings. I'm thinking maybe it could be a 1-2 of in Gx Devotion, but even then, it seems very iffy...

[HdH_Cthulhu]

WoW the UR manland is really terrible! It cost the same as the gr to activate and after the first swing its already strictly worse!

Ok i just compared the best with the worst in the cycle but still woha...

[Dice_Box]

If damage still went in the stack that land would be sweet. But it don't so it ain't. All the Manlands from this set feel underpowered. I mean now I really have to debate if the R/B land is the worst where at one point all agreed it was.

[iamajellydonut]

There are better options available for most Legacy and Modern decks that might want to play it: Mirri's Guile, Sylvan Library, Ancient Stirrings. I'm thinking maybe it could be a 1-2 of in Gx Devotion, but even then, it seems very iffy...

Yeah, but it would help to make Modern more interesting. The only other universal "one drops" (aside from reactive pieces) in Modern are Serum Visions, Noble Hierarch, and Thoughtseize/Inquisition. Which is pretty fucking sad. inb4 it gets banned because its cmc isn't ridiculous.

[HdH_Cthulhu]

If damage still went in the stack that land would be sweet. But it don't so it ain't. All the Manlands from this set feel underpowered. I mean now I really have to debate if the R/B land is the worst where at one point all agreed it was.

Or if it had first strike... but nah cant print that on a red manland!

[iatee]

Yeah, but it would help to make Modern more interesting. The only other universal "one drops" (aside from reactive pieces) in Modern are Serum Visions, Noble Hierarch, and Thoughtseize/Inquisition. Which is pretty fucking sad. inb4 it gets banned because its cmc isn't ridiculous.

You're missing Ancient Stirrings, which is probably secretly the best cantrip in Modern.

[Aggro_zombies]

If damage still went in the stack that land would be sweet. But it don't so it ain't. All the Manlands from this set feel underpowered. I mean now I really have to debate if the R/B land is the worst where at one point all agreed it was.
I was just commenting on this on another Magic site. I think it's either because they felt the original cycle was too strong or because BFZ is supposed to be underpowered to rebalance Standard, so these have to be below-par to help with that. It could be a bit of both, honestly.


Or if it had first strike... but nah cant print that on a red manland!
The red-white one deals both first strike and regular combat damage.

EDIT: Also, UR is the one color combination that least needs a good manland. It's already one of the best color pairs in multiple formats: various Jeskai builds in Standard; Grixis, Twin, and various Tier II decks like Scapeshift in Modern; Grixis, Jeskai, and splashes in Miracles in Legacy; and Mentor in Vintage. Not that the latter two formats would seriously consider playing most manlands in the first place, but still.

[rufus]

...
The red-white one deals both first strike and regular combat damage.
...


I wonder how good that is with Noyan Dar or awaken stuff.

[Darkenslight]

I wonder how good that is with Noyan Dar or awaken stuff.

I prefer pairing it with trample and deathtouch, m'self. :tongue:

But yes, there's likely to be a sick Jetski Awakening deck around, with the new Land-dude trample-giver.

[Capt4in]

I was just commenting on this on another Magic site. I think it's either because they felt the original cycle was too strong or because BFZ is supposed to be underpowered to rebalance Standard, so these have to be below-par to help with that. It could be a bit of both, honestly.


I've seen it thrown around that they stated that these manlands had to be weaker because they didn't want them to be insane with Awaken. Can't provide a source on that though.

[rufus]

I've seen it thrown around that they stated that these manlands had to be weaker because they didn't want them to be insane with Awaken. Can't provide a source on that though.

I think it's one of those things where it ends up being a much bigger issue in limited than constructed formats.

[Dice_Box]

http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/avatars/81/664/635874562738399818.png

It's something interesting.

[Jamaican Zombie Legend]

I think it's one of those things where it ends up being a much bigger issue in limited than constructed formats.

I'd be surprised if Wizards toned down the manlands because of Limited. In my experience (~30 drafts), Awakening a manland is a high-risk, high-reward play. A 5/6, or larger, lifelink Shambling Vents is capable of brutal swings in the life total difference, but Awaken strips away the resilience to most forms of removal that manlands are valued for. Sure, they'll do dirty things if they aren't met with an answer (of which there are plenty at Common), but the same can be said of so many cards in Limited. Bombs have always existed in Limited.

I think the power shrivel had more to do with Constructed formats, especially Standard. WotC has, for better or worse, been pushing for a Standard format in which efficient threats are numerous and comprehensive removal is either expensive or virtually nonexistent in certain decks. Powerful manlands would just be another difficult to counter threat alongside Rhinos, Hangarbacks, Ojutais, Wingmate Rocs, Gideons, and whatnot—difficult threats that could be a bit too ubiquitous given their mana-producing roles.

What disappointed me about this batch of manlands wasn't the power level, though, it's the lack of interesting designs. Four out of five of the BFZ manlands are extremely close to the RTR/GTC Keyrune cycle when you look at their animated forms, only the U/R representatives of the cycles having divergent designs. Just slap a keyword common to both colors on the creature form and call it good...lazy. I wanted to see more designs in the vein of Raging Ravine, Celestial Colonnade, and Lavaclaw Reaches (not just about power, folks)...stuff that feels unique and fun to build with.

Aaaaand enough about manlands, thoughts on Oath of Ashaya and Last Word 2: Electric Surge-a-loo:

-Oath of Nissa is yet another Green cantrip/dig-spell in the vein of Ancient Stirrings, Seek the Wilds, Gather the Pack, Kruphix's Insight, Commune with the Gods and Lead the Stampede. I like these designs a lot, as they mandate certain deckbuilding considerations and don't play well en masse (they can't chain into each other a la Blue cantrips/selection). Like its forebearers, Oath of Nissa is not good in Legacy—it's a shitty Mirri's Guile—but it certainly portends of interesting future designs.

-Overwhelming Denial is okay, I guess. When hardcast, it's better than Last Word, but very few decks, even in EDH, want that effect. It's Surge cost will be restricted, in most cases, to a couple scenarios:

1. When trying to protect a combo/play, in which case free countermagic, Flusterstorm, and even something like Spell Pierce is probably a better choice.

2. When digging for an answer with a cantrip or draw spell in which case it becomes an uncounterable Counterspell. Nice, I guess, but I can't see where any deck would rather have something cheaper like the examples in scenario number one.

Maybe it will be good at breaking control mirrors in Standard via winning counter wars, I dunno, but it looks underwhelming to me.

[Dice_Box]

If the flavour text is true, I want to know who summoned Phelddagrif.

The Manlands really suck. The G/B one will see Modern play but that R/U one... ouch. And it is more complex than most cards that are made today. It dies to a bolt regardless and I know I am going to get into a fight over that.

[rufus]

...

-Overwhelming Denial is okay, I guess. When hardcast, it's better than Last Word, but very few decks, even in EDH, want that effect. It's Surge cost will be restricted, in most cases, to a couple scenarios:

..

It seems like it could be a good card for control mirrors - strong in counter wars or in the late game when you want to counter Terminus. Probably a sideboard card at best in legacy though.

[Ace/Homebrew]

If the flavour text is true, I want to know who summoned Phelddagrif.


Yes, I wrote the flavor text. We do this on one or two cards a set now to discourage other sites (coughMythicspoilercough) from stealing the mockups.

source (http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/magic-fundamentals/the-rumor-mill/658789-overwhelming-denial?comment=55)

S'funny how a conditionally better Counterspell is just a worse Counterspell. :tongue:

[Cire]

I'm slightly miffed that the Green Landlord does exactly the same thing as the Red one except gives vigilance instead of trample. Like I know that vigilance on a manland changes a lot, but they could have at least changed the P/T of the elementals or something. . . .

[rufus]

It's way too janky for legacy, but there's a bad combo with Wake the Dead and a suitable creature pile that includes Sifter of Souls.

[Barook]

I'm slightly miffed that the Green Landlord does exactly the same thing as the Red one except gives vigilance instead of trample. Like I know that vigilance on a manland changes a lot, but they could have at least changed the P/T of the elementals or something. . . .
I'd expect first strike for white, flying for blue and lifelink/deathtouch for black. It's an uncommon cycle, so meh.

[Ace/Homebrew]

Boring day for spoilers, it seems.

http://media.wizards.com/2015/ogw_239nCi30ks3/en_fQLCvzkpuG.png

Gavin Verhey also acted like nobody saw Kozilek's Return weeks ago.

[GundamGuy]

Boring day for spoilers, it seems.

http://media.wizards.com/2015/ogw_239nCi30ks3/en_fQLCvzkpuG.png

Gavin Verhey also acted like nobody saw Kozilek's Return weeks ago.

Oath of Gideon is an intresting card... not a card that I see making waves in legacy, but it is intresting.

[Barook]

Oath of Gideon might not be Legacy-material, but it's still a decent card. I like how it's on-curve and buffs BFZ Gideon to the point where you could ult immediately have him survive to pump out more tokens.

[Tylert]

Just by curiosity, what if you have doubling season and oath of gideon in play? How would the effect apply? First on the battlefield applied first?

[from Cairo]

Oath of Gideon making a couple dorks that in turn can protect a Planeswalker the following turn is pretty synergistic. I assume the wording works on the transform walkers too? If so it's cool for curving Jace, VP into Oath of Gideon into another 'walker.

[thefringthing]

Transform cards go to exile and then enter the battlefield again back-face up when they transform, so this does work with transform planeswalkers.

[rufus]

Oath of Gideon making a couple dorks that in turn can protect a Planeswalker the following turn is pretty synergistic. I assume the wording works on the transform walkers too? If so it's cool for curving Jace, VP into Oath of Gideon into another 'walker.

It works with flip walkers.

I doubt it's legacy material. Talking in terms of standard: It also makes makes two sidekicks for Kitheon. Flip Jace and Ob Nixils get an extra use of their minus ability from it.

There's also immediate ults with Tezzeret (but not much in the way of other synergies.)

[GundamGuy]

Just by curiosity, what if you have doubling season and oath of gideon in play? How would the effect apply? First on the battlefield applied first?

You control both sources of the replacement effects and the perm it would affect, so I think you get to choose the order that the replacement effects are applied in.

- Not a Judge, so take it with a grain of salt for now.

[square_two]

Friend of mine has already picked up his foiled playset of Ceaseless Searblades for the combo with the UR manland. 30 cents apiece, woo.

[MaximumC]

Friend of mine has already picked up his foiled playset of Ceaseless Searblades for the combo with the UR manland. 30 cents apiece, woo.

Best of luck. This combo already existed with Lavaclaw Reaches, and Searblades was still a quarter per foil. So....

[Cire]

Oath of Gideon can lead the following Planewalkers into an ultimate the turn after they are cast assuming you use the PW's + ability (plus oath defends them) (not counting the PW's with those non-ultimates like Gideon)


Ajani Goldmane
Chandra Ablaze
Chandra Nalaar
Elspeth Tirel (goes ultimate turn of)
Freyalise, Llanowar's Fury
Garruk Wildspeaker (goes ultimate turn of)
Gideon, Ally of Zendikar (survives his ultimate turn of now)
Koth of the Hammer
Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker
Sarkhan Vol
Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker
Sorin Markov
Sorin, Solemn Visitor
Tezzeret the Seeker (goes ultimate turn of)
Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas (goes ultimate turn of)
Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
Vraska the Unseen


I don't see anything that is worth "comboing" with Oath . . .

[Cire]

Best of luck. This combo already existed with Lavaclaw Reaches, and Searblades was still a quarter per foil. So....

but now you can run both for 8 combo cards which makes the combo much more consistent.

[MaximumC]

but now you can run both for 8 combo cards which makes the combo much more consistent.

Yeah, it's still a 2-card, 3R combo that wins only if you can attack unblocked with a non-sick creature with 1 toughness. Cute for Cube and EDH, but I'm not betting on this for Modern. The only thing it's got going for it is that the manlands are not terrible on their own.

[Zombie]

Yeah, it's still a 2-card, 3R combo that wins only if you can attack unblocked with a non-sick creature with 1 toughness. Cute for Cube and EDH, but I'm not betting on this for Modern. The only thing it's got going for it is that the manlands are not terrible on their own.

4. You just mutate the manland nonstop and Searblades becomes an arbitrary/4.

[Cire]

Yeah, it's still a 2-card, 3R combo that wins only if you can attack unblocked with a non-sick creature with 1 toughness. Cute for Cube and EDH, but I'm not betting on this for Modern. The only thing it's got going for it is that the manlands are not terrible on their own.

Fair - especially since the combo takes at least 2 turns. . . (Drop searblade first, then the land next turn, animate, combo), unless you are paying essentially 5/6 + U/B + RR

---

Also more applicable in modern:

Eldrazi Displacer 2W
Creature - Eldrazi
Devoid
2C: Exile another target creature, then return it to the battlefield tapped under its owner's control.
3/3

Together with Wasteland Strangler BWC Modern Eldrazi can really control the board. Legacy? We have better options.

Also for Modern: The above with Tidehallow is a bit hilarious: combined with the Eldrazi Temple you can T3 drop Displacer, T4 play Temple, drop Sculler, flicker Sculler - have 1 card's gone forever, one more under the sculler that can be processed any time as long as it survives, and you still have a 3/3 and a 2/2 sitting around that can repeat the combo later.

[MaximumC]

4. You just mutate the manland nonstop and Searblades becomes an arbitrary/4.

Yeah, my bad, I flipped the P/T of Searblades in my head. Same point applies, though. If Searblade dealt damage instead of just getting bigger, or if the combo pieces had other interactions, I'd say game on. As it is, the combo looks weak and gets even weaker when you consider it's been possible forever and no one uses it.

Hell, if you want two card combos using bad cards, why don't we see Duskmantle Guildmage + that mind drill thing from New Phyrexia being a thing? Or Illusionist's Bracers and untappers?

[rufus]

...

Eldrazi Displacer 2W
Creature - Eldrazi
Devoid
2C: Exile another target creature, then return it to the battlefield tapped under its owner's control.
3/3
...

Also for Modern: The above with Tidehallow is a bit hilarious: combined with the Eldrazi Temple you can T3 drop Displacer, T4 play Temple, drop Sculler, flicker Sculler - have 1 card's gone forever, one more under the sculler that can be processed any time as long as it survives, and you still have a 3/3 and a 2/2 sitting around that can repeat the combo later.

It should work well with the evoke and rifter suite of creatures. Also with unearth. Intriguing possibilities. Still unlikely to be legacy material.

[Darkenslight]

Funny thing about Eldrazi Displacer: there's an infinite combo in Draft with it. Brood Monitor + this = infinite flicker effects; add in a Blood Artist effect and you instagib all players.

[Ace/Homebrew]

There's an infinite combo in Draft with it.

Phase 1, collect Eldrazi Displacer and Brood Monitor.
Phase 2, ???
Phase 3, Profit!

Looks like the ways to profit in draft are Catacomb Sifter (scrying), and Flayer Drone (actually a win-con!!).
Totally worth going 4 colors in draft, right?

[Barook]

Also more applicable in modern:

Eldrazi Displacer 2W
Creature - Eldrazi
Devoid
2C: Exile another target creature, then return it to the battlefield tapped under its owner's control.
3/3

Together with Wasteland Strangler BWC Modern Eldrazi can really control the board. Legacy? We have better options.
Not so hasty. This is a Death & Taxes creature. To sum it up from fellow D&T players:


Okay, so I'm going to be testing Eldrazi Displacer as a 1-of following the release of the new set. This card can do some stupid stuff in our shell. Obviously, it recycles Flickerwisp, Stoneforge, and Restoration Angel triggers, which is sweet, but it can do much more. It gets really cute with Mangara. It can serve as a "Mom" effect for your other creature, which is cool. For three mana, you can remove a blocker; for six mana, you can remove two. For three mana, you can kill a token...like, a Marit Lage token. You can unflip a Delver, you can invalidate an attack, you can unattach a piece of equipment, and you can make a bad attack to push damage and then save your best guy(s). You can also invalidate most "cheat a fatty into play strategies" for three mana. Also, it is a respectable sized body, and it doesn't shrink to Dread of Night!

And Containment Priest makes it basically say "2C: Exile another target creature."
Restoration Angel shenanigans aside, the potential utility of this card is huge. What I like especially about is the potential of repeated Flickerwisp "flickers" at instant speed, which is one of the strongest effects D&T has to offer. Mana might be a bit wonky since it requires C and overall 3 mana to activate.

But given to potential synergy with the deck, I have high hopes in it.

[rufus]

Not so hasty. This is a Death & Taxes creature. To sum it up from fellow D&T players:

...

You can start exiling critters with it + Containment Priest. Trigger stacking tricks with Leonin Relic Warder and Fiend Hunter work too.

[Barook]

You can start exiling critters with it + Containment Priest. Trigger stacking tricks with Leonin Relic Warder and Fiend Hunter work too.
I don't think D&T has enough slots for Priest, Fiend Hunter and it. But assuming it's worth to run multiple copies of it, I could see it reaching a critical mass alongside Flickerwisp to make Priest relevant against creature decks after sideboarding.

[Bed Decks Palyer]

There's a set of uncommon taplands. These might be useful for EDH or some budget decks. They got quite a nice art, too, excep for some kind of floating prisms that kinda spoil it.