[SCD] Goblin Dark-Dweller

[rufus]

The spoiler thread is locked, and there's a potentially very powerful spoiled card:



Goblin Dark-Dwellers
3RR
Goblin

Meance

When Goblin Dark-Dwellers enters the battlefield you may cast target instant or sorcery card from your graveyard with converted mana cost 3 or less from your graveyard without paying its mana cost. If that card would be put into your graveyard this turn, exile it instead.

4/4


Are there any instants or sorceries that goblins really wants to play enough to justify him?

There's a silly combo possibility where you pile copy effects like Fated Infatuation,Twinflame, or even Rootborn Defenses into the graveyard, and then chain them by putting one of these guys into play.

Does this guy make any sense at all as a component in storm decks?

[Dice_Box]

My only thought was Modern Grixis Control, but I think the new Vampire is better. In Legacy, 5 mana is a game winning cost. Against Dream Hall or Sneak Attack he just looks... Meh.

As for Goblins as a deck, another 5 drop ain't helping no one.

[Barook]

5 mana is quite alot to invest, even for a 4/4 Menace body. I just don't see it for Eternal play, at Legacy. Vintage might be a different beast with its broken instants and sorceries.

[rufus]

5 mana is quite alot to invest, even for a 4/4 Menace body. I just don't see it for Eternal play, at Legacy. Vintage might be a different beast with its broken instants and sorceries.

Yeah, it's in the 'donut hole' - not good enough to cheat for, too expensive to play. Vintage also has faster mana to make hardcasting 4-6 cc stuff a lot more viable.

[Finn]

The direction this card pulls the deck in is in direct contradiction to the way Ringleader wants that deck to be constructed.

It may be a good card - dunno, but not in any Goblins deck I have faced or played.

[Ace/Homebrew]

The direction this card pulls the deck in is in direct contradiction to the way Ringleader wants that deck to be constructed.

It may be a good card - dunno, but not in any Goblins deck I have faced or played.
You can force it with stuff like Tarfire, Warren Weirding, and Nameless Inversion. But all that seems underwhelming. :rolleyes:

[TsumiBand]

If there were some kind of Jund midrange-y thing that could capitalize on recasting stronk things, like... Abrupt Decay? That BR command from Dragons of Tarkir that everyone wanted to like but didn't? ... things like that on turn 4/5. Maybe that would be a way to get mileage out of such a card.

I mean given the effect is basically a 4/4 and a cheap spell, I kind of want to compare it negatively against, like, Eternal Witness or something. But that's not really right to do, so I won't do that.

[Aggro_zombies]

A Jund Nic-Fit deck would be interested in both halves of this card: that is, it would be interested in a second Decay or Kolaghan's Command and it would be interested in a 4/4 with Menace. It would also be able to front five mana for the pleasure of getting both.

Now, whether a Jund Nic Fit deck is actually good is another question altogether.

[Cire]

It's sort of comparable to a bloodbraid elf right? Can it go into RUGb Cascade to just continually cast the same group of spells over and over again?

4 Shardless Agent
4 Deathrite Shaman
3 Blood Braid Elf
2 Goblin Dark-Dwellers

4 Ancestral Vision
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Abrupt Decay
3 Izzet Charm

24 Lands

[MGB]

Wow. This card has the potential to be outrageously powerful.

[TsumiBand]

Good call, it is probably most comparable to Bloodbraid Elf.

By itself it is obviously quite bad but I think if you had an entire deck setup to make nearly every spell have that Cascade-like effect, you might be able to just outvalue your opponents.

[Aggro_zombies]

I don't think you have to go whole hog on cascade - in fact, I think doing so is probably something of a trap. BBE doesn't see serious play now because it costs four mana and gives you a random card and a 3/2. This costs one more than that but gives you a body that survives Bolt and Punishing Fire plus a card that isn't really random. He's more like a proactive Snapcaster Mage.

Think of this guy in a Jund deck: you're likely flashing back Decay, Bolt, or Kolaghan's Command, or possibly Thoughtseize which means you're effectively using it as a Shriekmaw. Shriekmaw was borderline playable back when Legacy was more creature-heavy; the real thing holding it back was that getting the 3/2 Fear was mana inefficient relative to just casting a removal spell and another creature. The body on this guy is generally worth three to four mana, so you're probably breaking even on mana casting this relative to casting a 4/4 Menace and another removal spell. He gets even better in Naya colors because then you can flash back StP or Lightning Helix, making him Siege Rhino-ish.

Of course, I think he's fringe playable at best and realistically just unplayable, so most of this discussion is moot.

[Begle1]

It gives Moggcatcher a bit of an extra element, but for most things you'd want to do with Moggcatcher, you can just fetch the goblin that'd do it directly.

[jrsthethird]

There's a silly combo possibility where you pile copy effects like Fated Infatuation,Twinflame, or even Rootborn Defenses into the graveyard, and then chain them by putting one of these guys into play.

It exiles the copy spell upon resolution, so there's no way to go infinite. Anything less than that isn't worth it, purely from a deck construction standpoint.


It's sort of comparable to a bloodbraid elf right? Can it go into RUGb Cascade to just continually cast the same group of spells over and over again?

4 Shardless Agent
4 Deathrite Shaman
3 Blood Braid Elf
2 Goblin Dark-Dwellers

4 Ancestral Vision
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Abrupt Decay
3 Izzet Charm

24 Lands

Hitting Ancestral Vision with this is back-breaking. Probably the best chance for him to see play.


I don't think you have to go whole hog on cascade - in fact, I think doing so is probably something of a trap. BBE doesn't see serious play now because it costs four mana and gives you a random card and a 3/2. This costs one more than that but gives you a body that survives Bolt and Punishing Fire plus a card that isn't really random. He's more like a proactive Snapcaster Mage.

The other problem is that cascade gives you two spells to be countered, while you can just nip this guy in the bud right away.

Snapcaster comparison is spot on. Figures, they take a broken blue creature that probably should have been red the first time around, and fix it in the right color.

[Darkenslight]

You can force it with stuff like Tarfire, Warren Weirding, and Nameless Inversion. But all that seems underwhelming. :rolleyes:

Maybe Goblin War Strike? *shrug*

[Chatto]

This is the worst Goblin card you would want in an Goblin-deck.

[Zombie]

Saw something sad on Reddit: This thing in S&T. S&T => Goblin. Opponent puts in O-Ring or whatever, triggers go with O-Ring on top so it has to nuke the goblin, then goblin recasts S&T => Griseltard, spaghetti or whatever.

[Lord_Mcdonalds]

even as show & tell #5, it's probably barely playable.

[Zombie]

even as show & tell #5, it's probably barely playable.

The point is not it being S&T #5. The point is having it in hand automatically insuring every actual Show and Tell you cast against Oblivion Ring and making it not as horrid against Ashen Rider. If you don't think they have anything, it's #5.

[rufus]

Saw something sad on Reddit: This thing in S&T. S&T => Goblin. Opponent puts in O-Ring or whatever, triggers go with O-Ring on top so it has to nuke the goblin, then goblin recasts S&T => Griseltard, spaghetti or whatever.

I think the trigger goes on the stack before SnT finishes resolving, so you'd need a second one in the graveyard for that to work.

[H]

I think the trigger goes on the stack before SnT finishes resolving, so you'd need a second one in the graveyard for that to work.

No, it triggers while S&T is resolving, but it doesn't go on the stack until someone has priority, at which point S&T is already in the yard.

[rufus]

No, it triggers while S&T is resolving, but it doesn't go on the stack until someone has priority, at which point S&T is already in the yard.

Yeah, I got it confused with stuff like Epic Experiment where one spell is cast while another is resolving.

[MaximumC]

I think the trigger goes on the stack before SnT finishes resolving, so you'd need a second one in the graveyard for that to work.

It can't go on the stack during resolution.

1. I cast Show and Tell.
2. Show and Tell resolves.
3. During resolution, we put our permanents on the board.
4. Gobbo's trigger happens, and so it wants to put its ability on the stack. It cannot yet because no one has priority.
5. Show and Tell finishes resolving and goes into the graveyard.
6. All ETB triggers (including Gobbos) now go on the stack in ANAP order.

So yeah, you can do your Show and Tell trick.

Honestly, though, I think this dork is best seen as another 5-cc bomb Goblin the likes of which we haven't seen since Seige-Gang Commander. This card isn't good just because it's a 5-drop Tiago, and it's not good as a SnT target. If it's good, it's because it gives Lackey (and his mentally challenged brother from Zendikar) something else bomby to do.

EDIT: Imagine this line:
t1: Lackey
t2: Night's Whisper, swing with Lackey, Put Dark-Dwellers out, Recast Whisper

Replace Whisper with Hymn to Torach, Boros Charm, or whatever for similar silliness.

You: I Hymn you twice and have a 4/4 on Turn 2.
Opp: I am going to lose this game.

And, on top of that, during the late game this guy does not suck to cast.

[Ace/Homebrew]

Imagine this line:
t1: Lackey
t2: Night's Whisper, swing with Lackey, Put Dark-Dwellers out, Recast Whisper
Except that will never happen because no Goblins pilot will dilute their deck with those non-goblin cards. :tongue:

[MaximumC]

Except that will never happen because no Goblins pilot will dilute their deck with those non-goblin cards. :tongue:

Eh, I dunno, I had this fun Goblins Grixis deck I ran in Vintage once. An aggro core of Warchief, Lackey, Tinkerer, Welder, and Prowl with good grixis control cards. Why can't you dip into black like Modern does?

Gobbos (22)
4x Goblin Lackey
4x Goblin Warchief
4x Goblin Piledriver
4x Goblin Matron
3x Earwig Squad
3x Goblin Dark-Dwellers
Awesome Stuff (17)
4x Hymn to Torach
4x Thoughtseize
4x Warren Weirding
4x Ancestral Visions
1x Tarfire
Manas (21)
4x Scalding Tarn
4x Bloodstained Mire
2x Volcanic Island
4x Badlands
4x Mountain
1x Swamp

Give up Wasteland/Port for discard, removal, and card draw awesomesauce? Is it crap? MAYBE!

[Cire]

FYI, I tried playtesting that cascade deck I posted a little while ago. . . it's not great but when it worked . . . man it was ridiculous. You haven't lived till you cast Ancesteral Visions three turns in a row. :tongue:

[rufus]

FYI, I tried playtesting that cascade deck I posted a little while ago. . . it's not great but when it worked . . . man it was ridiculous. You haven't lived till you cast Ancesteral Visions three turns in a row. :tongue:

I want to see the self-mill / reanimator deck that chains Breaking // Enterings and Ghostly Flickers with this guy.