BW Eldrazi

[Gheizen64]

As a lot of people may already know, there's a new deck that's all the talk of the town in modern, B/x Eldrazi. It work by using cheap eldrazis, eldrazi lands, eye of ugin and urborg to accellerate fat eldrazi into play super fast, especially Oblivion Sower and Blight Herder which give you esssentially infinite mana.

Now, i discounted the deck at first as a modern only-viable deck, however, the following things came to me:

- The curve is actually high so it doesn't really care about Countertop.
- Our creatures are usually good even if countered with the On-cast trigger.
- Sword is a better card than Path
- Grave exiling is much better in this format compared to modern, as it hose delve, reanimate, threshold , Snapcaster and PiF amongst other things.
- We have Wasteland and Ancient tomb, giving us virtually 10+ sol lands (4 tombs, 4 Eldrazi temples, 3 EoU)
- We have Deathrite Shaman!

With those in mind, i decided to give the deck a go, and it's a lot of fun to play. The biggest problem i ran into is drawing cards honestly. You can't run Confidant for obvious reasons. Painful Truths can't draw you 3 cards. White has Stoneforge i guess. The other thing is that with tombs, you run less coloured sources than the modern version of the deck. so cards like Sculler are unplayable pretty much. Chalice is a possibility BUT you miss on swords and Relic of Progenitus that are two really good cards. Trinisphere could be a better fit considering that you play lot of lands and your creatures cost all 3+.

With Oath coming out, the new white eldrazi is probably playable, as well as some new cards that could still be spoiled.

Tentative list:


4 Ancient Tomb
3 Eye of Ugin
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Wasteland
2 Marsh Flats
3 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Scrubland

4 Wasteland Strangler
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Blight Herder
4 Oblivion Sower
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
4 Thoughtseize
4 Relic of Progenitus
3 Sphere of Resistance
4 Night's Whisper
3 Trinisphere
1 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth


Strangler is a good card but i've found that often you just don't hit anything cause you can play it very early when either there are no creatures or no exiled cards. It's a bit clunky of a card honestly. The new white eldrazi is probably better in most cases. Night's whisper was the best card-advantage spell i could think of in BW even if it's nothing amazing, it can fill your turns and do shit in general. Spheres because you have lot of mana so who cares ahAhaAhahAH. I don't think you need the Lingering souls here as creature blocking is much less relevant in this format compared to inevitability. Late game this deck is really fun as it fetch spaghetti monsters, and 10 mana is actually easy especially if you hit a sower first.

EDIT: i completely forgot about Deathrite Shaman . I guess that's a card too and pretty good in this deck as well :D I guess we play it instead of thoughtseize and keep just Spheres for protection, or either play more colored mana sources and cut the spheres.

[Cire]

There are a couple new cards to consider as well: Eldrazi Displacer & Reality Smasher

Displacer works really well with Tidehallow Sculler (which works bad with the Eldrazi and sol lands), but is really versatile. Smasher, just beats face. . .

Edit: In fact, I think Smasher might be the most worthwhile thing this deck can do in legacy.

Maybe something like Eldrazi Stax (I know this is different than the Modern version which relies on processors)

Turn 1 - Sol Land + Mox (discard land)/Accel --> Chalice/TriniSpehere
Turn 2 - Eldrazi Land + Mox (discard land)/Accel --> Smasher/Oblivion Sower/Worldbreaker(Ha! Take that lands)
Turn 3 - Sol Land/Eldrazi Land --> Smasher/Oblivion Sower/Worldbreaker

[Barook]

http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/avatars/thumbnails/81/728/200/283/635875838068649587.png
Reality Smasher looks great. Endbringer might be great as well.

I'm not sure if BW is actually the direction you want to take in Legacy. Sol Lands + Grim Monolith looks kinda strong as well.

Countermagic is still at large in Legacy, so some Cavern of Souls might be a good idea.

If you want a quality exiler, DRS should grab your attention.

[Cire]

I agree that BW which is more about processors is probably not the legacy direction eldrazi should take - instead I think it is more like stax and the ability to run a lot of "2 mana lands"

For example:

Sample: Eldrazi Stax Take One


4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Eye of Ugin
4 Cavern of Souls
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Mana Confluence

4 Mox Diamond
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
4 Lotus Petal
4 Grim Monolith

4 Chalice of the Void
4 Trinisphere

4 Reality Smasher
3 Oblivion Sower
3 World Breaker
3 Endbringer

[Redkid43]

I'm glad I'm not the only one who thought of this.

The Bx Modern decks works because of a few things--the most important of which ares the Urborg/Eye of Ugin/Temple interactions. However, we have Sol Lands which are always a better consideration over Temple because they are an automatic source for 2 colorless mana, regardless of stiuplations like Temple. Reality Smasher seems perfect here as a beat stick with an upside, but even with sol lands, 5 mana is a lot. Eye of Ugin makes this 3, which is nutso.

Another thing to think about is that Wasteland is very much a card in Legacy and that kind of attrition is no where in Modern, save for Tectonic Edge (which is super slow). Our manabase can be easily disrupted because of how synergistic is all is. I'm not saying it's a bad idea, but Modern can get away with this kind of stuff because of the lack of cards like Wasteland.

Making this a Stax deck seems iffy--I'd voice for a more Stompy approach. Chrome Mox seems bad because of Devoid, but with this kind of acceleration i don't think we need it. If we can find a viable Moon effect, we shut off all Wastelands but hobble our production, which is why I think this deck is so strong.

Some thoughts...I am in no way denouncing this deck.

[Barook]

I agree that BW which is more about processors is probably not the legacy direction eldrazi should take - instead I think it is more like stax and the ability to run a lot of "2 mana lands"

For example:

Sample: Eldrazi Stax Take One


4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Eye of Ugin
4 Cavern of Souls
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Mana Confluence

4 Mox Diamond
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
4 Lotus Petal
4 Grim Monolith

4 Chalice of the Void
4 Trinisphere

4 Reality Smasher
3 Oblivion Sower
3 World Breaker
3 Endbringer

Why not cut some of the cutesy land stuff, try out a 12-Post manabase instead and spice it up with some Caverns/Temples/Eyes?

E.g. something like this:
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Eldrazi Temple
~3 Eye of Ugin
X Cavern of Souls
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Glimmerpost
4 Cloudpost
4 Vesuva

Still too many lands, but one could fiddle around with the numbers to get it right. More lands for Mox fodder isn't too bad, either. Lotus Petal and ESG might be a tad bit excessive.

[Cire]

I think if we go to the 12 post mana base we should just run Eldrazi Ramp. . .

Anyway as Redkid43 said, my list is more stompy than stax - it's just not a good list. . . .

Also there's a bunch of ways we can play now. . . we can even do something aggro like the following

1st - Eldrazi Land - Eldrazi Mimic
2nd - Mountain - Eldrazi Obligator (attack for 6)
3rd - Sol Land/Eldrazi Land - Reality Smasher (attack for 19)

combine that with stompy elements like moon effects?

[Redkid43]

Seems good and optimal with that line of play. Although Oblitagor seems like too much mana is needed for his kicker cost. Definitely playing a Stompy list is way more our style anyways. Any size able threat under a Moon is a huge threat anyways because they'll have to jump through so many hoops to kill it.

Cards I'd consider moving forward:
Wasteland Stangler seems great because of how attrition he (it?) is. All the cast trigger Eldrazi laugh at counter spells because the effect still happens. The only problem is finding a consistent way to turn on the "cards in exile" part.
Reality Smasher seems like a total beating if it gets targeted by anything--it'll hit three cards (the spell plus 2 more on the discard) to get rid of it, which seems gross. If it stays, it's a large body that'll eat just about anything. A good high end on the curve.
Exile enchantments cause cards to be exiled. If I say exile a card with O Ring or the like, it's a valid target for processing. Should that enchantment leave play, nothing happens. That's big, but the tempo loss here for taking a turn to deal with a threat in this way seems slow and cumbersome.

The problem is finding an effective Moon effect. Actual Blood moon is right out because our lands are important, Contamination and Eternal Darkness require additional resources like tokens and upkeep costs, and that's about it for hard effects. Old stand ins like Suppression Field seem splashable and were an integral part of the Soilder Stompy list, and that can really mess people up. We aren't ever going to activate Eye, and white allows for cards like Swords as a way to feed the processors, but that ideology seems more Modern than Legacy.

What we need is Moon and Screw plan, like Dragon/Werewolf Stompy and an effective way to turn on Wasteland Stangler.

[Barook]

Another interesting Eldrazi:

http://i.imgur.com/1G5xwq6.png

The processor plan might be less attractive in Legacy, but it's some kind of pseudo-Clique.

[Cire]

It's another great card for the inevitable Eldrazi Stompy deck. . . .

Turn 1 - Sol Land - Eldrazi Mimic
Turn 2 - Eye of Ugin + Mox Diamond (discard land) for Black - Seer + Strangler (opponent loses a card, kill a creature) + (attack for 4)
Turn 3 - Smasher (Attack for 16)

A bit magical christmasland - but there is inherent power in these midrange Eldrazi and having access to more Sollands.

[Redkid43]

That Clique Eldrazi seems great, bigger body and similar effect to Clique, but no flash is eh. But whatever seems fantastic otherwise

[Gheizen64]

At this point, i think it's probably correct to play eldrazi stompy and ditch the colors and the relics. That new card look so good as it actually exile not like the 5/5 haste trample creature that just discard.

Something like this:

4 Ancient tomb
3 Eye of Ugin
3 Urborgs, tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Wastelands
4 Cavern of Souls (can cast displacer and strangler, make all other eldrazis non-counterable)
2 Scrublands

As a mana base

then

4 Thought-Knot Seer
3 Wasteland Strangler
3 Eldrazi Displacer
3 Blight Herder or the new 5/5 haste trample for 5
2 Oblivion Sower
2 Endbringer (the T: ping C,T: creature can't block or attack , CC,T : draw a card)
1 newlamog

4 Chalice of the Void
3 Trinisphere

There are 13 slots still free. The Eldrazi mimic is a possibility as an early drop which can make for some silly openings (T1 Eye of Ugin-> 2x Mimic, T2 urborg-> Thought-Knot seer, attack for 8), going more accelleration is possible (diamond), or some new card that still hasn't been spoiled maybe, or even some good artifact creatures, resistors, revokers or whatever dunno. Wasteland is good against us, true, but the manabase is extremely redundant, way more than normal MUD, and you don't run Traitors that kill your development and are often autolose vs wastelands. You also run 24-25 lands so WHATEVER BOYS. I'd really like to play Relic of progenituses but Chalice is just way too good, i guess we'll stick to crypts in the SB and possibly RiP if you go for more coloured sources.

[darkgh0st]

I was leaning more towards pure colorless as well, ditching Strangler for Spatial Contortion. My land base will probably look like this:

I will want 23 lands
4 Ancient Tomb
3/4 City of Traitors
4 Eldrazi Temple
2 Eye of Ugin
4 Wasteland
3/4 Rishadan Port
1-3 Cavern of Souls

I'm also leaning towards an aggro-prison approach, with Eldrazi Mimic in.

[Barook]

With a certain amount of black, one could also run MD Leyline of the Void for Processor fodder + Helm of Obedience for the combo kill. We run Sol Lands anyway. Leyline makes Displacer + Strangler also a real treat since Strangler works as EtB instead of actual casting.

For non-chalice shells, Dark Ritual might also be interesting.

@Gheizen64: Just throwing random ideas here, but hopefully some might stick.

Why not a few copies of CoW? Enables the Wasteland lock and provides a certain amount of protection against Wasteland itself. It would also synergize with Mox Diamond if that is your thing.

I like how you skipped the City of Traitors. Keeping your lands is pretty important.

Cave of Koilos might actually be better for the purpose of the deck if you want to access C.

Let's also not forget Sea Gate Wreckage, the new Hellbent Library to refill cards.

As for further accel options, there's Grim Monolith as it enables alot of dumb shit. Mind Stone is run in Modern for its accel + cantrip quality.

Blight Herder with no exile effects doesn't seem effective. And I like Reality Smasher alot.

In the end, is MD CotV really better than a bunch of Resistors + being able to run Relic of Progenitus/Expedition Map? Probably, but I'd love to see some utility lands like Karakas or Bojuka Bog. Sadly there's no good, maindeckable land search or GY-hate in artifact colors outside of :1:.

[Dice_Box]

So here is my go at it, it's a rough draft since I don't know everything that will be available yet but with what I have I like this idea. Deck might be shit though:

Main
4x Endless One (X)
4x Eldrazi Mimic(2)
4x Reality Smasher (5)
4x Thought-Knot Seer (5)
3x Endbringer (6)
1x Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger (10)
1x Emrakul, the Aeons Torn (15)

1x All is Dust
4x Spatial Contortion
3x Skittering Invasion

4x Chalice of the Void
4x Thorn of Amethyst

4x Ancient Tomb
2x City of Traitors
4x Eldrazi Temple
4x Eye of Ugin
3x Rishadan Port
2x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4x Wasteland

So some answers:
Why are you running Urborg?
Because it male Eye tap for 3 for Eldrazi and tap at all for other Spells. Also let's you tap City and take no damage.

Why the Thorns?
Because we naturally have a mana advantage, let's use it.

Skittering what now?
It's hot cheap and likely not going to stay, but 5 blockers that Eldrazi Temple and Eye can make cheaper that also help ramp? I like it.

Endbringer?
Card draw, removal and creature control. 3 might be one too few.

Endless one?
He can be a 1 drop or an unstoppable threat. Wish he had trample.

Open to ideas.

Also will look at a Processors build later.

[mistercakes]

if you're running a lot of urborgs (3 or 4, although maybe you can get away with only 2) play a tabernacle or some maze of ith. i used to do that in my old stax deck.

[Barook]

4 Ancient Tomb
3 Eye of Ugin
3 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Wasteland
4 Cavern of Soul
2 Sea Gate Wreckage

3 Mox Diamond
4 Grim Monolith

4 Bearer of Silence
2 Eldrazi Displacer
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
3 Endbringer
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger

4 Chalice of the Void
3 Trinisphere
4 Spatial Contortion

I cut the Processors since they lack support in the Chalice build. Is that the right direction? I don't know, Oblivion Sower has the reputation as the strongest card in the Modern variant, so there's that.

Anything that can be hit by Strangler could be hit by Spatial Contortion as well. Bearer of Silence (http://www.mtgsalvation.com/cards/oath-of-the-gatewatch/26308-bearer-of-silence) also brings additional removal to the table. Hard to say if 4 copies MD are necessary. The deck runs 10 black sources and 7 white sources to cast your Eldrazi (Bearer and Displacer). Depending on how it turns out, you could replace a number of Wastelands/Sea Gate Wreckages with Cave of Koilos, trading utility for more mana stability. The rest of the creatures are just a bunch of Eldrazi that might be good, thrown together.

That would be the base I would start testing and tweaking.

Edit: Other utility lands to consider:
- Volrath's Stronghold (if given enough black support)
- Mikokoro, Center of the Sea (1-of, same slot as Sea Gate Wreckage)

[Dice_Box]

Sower has a ton of power because you maindeck the ability to wipe graveyards and Midrange Delve Creatures are so powerful. Also the amount of times you hit non fetch cards or you hit fetches that can still target black lands are higher in Modern. In Legacy the deck is unlikely to play targets for the fetches meaning you need Urborg or bust. The other thing is that Modern decks tend to have higher land counts, making the effect stronger. I can not see myself getting a whole lot of advantage casting Sower against ANT/TES. Playing it against Lands though would be a hoot.

[Barook]

Sower has a ton of power because you maindeck the ability to wipe graveyards and Midrange Delve Creatures are so powerful. Also the amount of times you hit non fetch cards or you hit fetches that can still target black lands are higher in Modern. In Legacy the deck is unlikely to play targets for the fetches meaning you need Urborg or bust. The other thing is that Modern decks tend to have higher land counts, making the effect stronger. I can not see myself getting a whole lot of advantage casting Sower against ANT/TES. Playing it against Lands though would be a hoot.
Fair enough. The lack of fetchable lands + lack of MD enablers was the reason I cut Sower.

I wonder how many copies of Wasteland we actually need? We want to ramp and keep our lands, so Wastelands might be counter-productive to what we want to achieve, even though there might be lands that annoy us.

Given how ridiculous the entire shell is, I would keep in mind that running Corrupted Crossroads (http://www.mtgsalvation.com/cards/oath-of-the-gatewatch/26221-corrupted-crossroads) could enable other-colored Eldrazi alongside Cavern and Mox. World Breaker (http://www.mtgsalvation.com/cards/oath-of-the-gatewatch/26218-world-breaker) might be a prime candidate. There's also Dread Defiler (http://www.mtgsalvation.com/cards/oath-of-the-gatewatch/26253-dread-defiler) or Deepfathom Skulker (http://www.mtgsalvation.com/cards/oath-of-the-gatewatch/26257-deepfathom-skulker).

[Vicar in a tutu]

This deck looks cool. I'm keeping my eyes peeled on this thread. Maybe there is a toy or two left before the entire new set is spoiled?

EDIT: I wish Thought-Knot Seer made an opponent draw when it died instead of when it left the battlefield. That would have been good against Miracles with plowshares, Terminus and Council's Judgement.

[Darkenslight]

Play some number of Wastes as well, in case of Blood Moon. Blood Moon wrecks you SO HARD.

[Whitefaces]

There's an obvious tension between CotV vs StP, DRS and Relic. Is there something similar to relic that is 2 cmc?

[H]

There's an obvious tension between CotV vs StP, DRS and Relic. Is there something similar to relic that is 2 cmc?

Not really. There are no artifacts I know of, except Graveyard Shovel which is horrible no matter how you slice it. Withered Wretch is probably the closest thing, on color.

[MGB]

Not really. There are no artifacts I know of, except Graveyard Shovel which is horrible no matter how you slice it. Withered Wretch is probably the closest thing, on color.

Wow, I didn't even know that card existed (Graveyard Shovel).

That is an absolutely embarrassingly bad card to play in a Legacy deck.

[Barook]

There's an obvious tension between CotV vs StP, DRS and Relic. Is there something similar to relic that is 2 cmc?
I don't think the main problem of the "exile faction" is CotV, but the mana itself.

If you don't run Staxx artifacts to disrupt your opponent, you need discard which requires colored mana. DRS requires colored mana (and fetches). StP requires colored mana.

Yet the manabase you want to run to take full advantage of the tribal theme is colorless - Ancient Tomb, Eye of Ugin, Eldrazi Temple, Cavern of Souls, utility lands (e.g. Wasteland, Sea Gate Wreckage, etc.). Even with just the core - without the utility lands, it wouldn't leave much room for colored lands.

The modern version can support colored cards because they can't run more quality colorless lands - something we're pretty much required to do for Legacy due to speed (Ancient Tomb) or the general meta (Cavern due to the dominance of counters).

[Dice_Box]

Well the deck just got a Counterspell. Might not hurt to wait the week it will take to see the rest of what will be. But yea, we have a deck here fokes.

[Barook]

Well the deck just got a Counterspell. Might not hurt to wait the week it will take to see the rest of what will be. But yea, we have a deck here fokes.
It's flexible, but isn't it more of a sideboard card? I would rather run Spatial Contortion in the removal slot.

Feels reassuing that we have outs against Terminus and other bullshit sorceries, though.

[LMental]

So, I'm just going to write this post in the hope of summing up what looks to be the strongest direction for the deck, and we can go from there:

LANDS:

Eye of Ugin
Eldrazi Temple
Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth

This is the modern trifecta. We probably want at least Eye and Eldrazi Temple. Maybe Urborg (it can also help out with Ancient Tomb late game). But we're not going to be playing Black really, so Urborg becomes less useful then.

Ancient Tomb
City of Traitors

The traditional MUD package.

Cloudpost
Glimmerpost
Vesuva

And the 12-Post Package

Cavern of Souls
Sea Gate Wreckage
Bojuku Bog
Wasteland

Utility lands. We probably want some number of these in here.

I think a big decision will be whether to go with the MUD lands or the 12-post lands, given that we're probably at least playing Eye of Ugin and Eldrazi Temple.


CREATURES

Wasteland Stranger

Certainly weaker here than in modern, since we probably aren't playing exile effects like Relic of Progenitus MD (Otherwise, we can't play Chalice and thus need to play black).

Blight Herder

A modern all-star that is also weaker in a version of the deck that doesn't lean on exile effects.

Oblivion Sower

Yet another of the aforementioned modern stars that doesn't do to well without its exiling buddies.

Thought-Knot Seer

Seems good. Disruption that can beat face.

Reality Smasher

A big dude. Probably quite good, too.

Endbringer

Maybe the top-end of our curve.


DISRUPTION

Chalice of the Void
Trinisphere

The MUD package. Seems good here too.

Warping Wail

What might push this deck over the edge. SOOOO good in Legacy.




So, taking all that into account, I'd want to try something like:

4 Eldrazi Temple
3 Eye of Ugin
3 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Ancient Tomb
3 City of Traitors
4 Wasteland
2 Cavern of Souls
1 Sea Gate Wreckage

4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
4 Endbringer
2 Spellskite
1 Ulamog, Ceaseless Hunger

4 Chalice of the Void
4 Trinisphere
4 Warping Wail
4 Grim Monolith
2 Spatial Conortion
1 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon


What do you all think?
Is it worth testing a build that includes exile elements, modern-style? I think my analysis says it isn't: there are enough powerful things we can do in Mono-Brown and playing Black only gives us access to Blight Herder, which is probably an improvement over Reality Smasher, but not enough of one to make my panties drop.

[Dice_Box]

I think we should not be aiming to use the 12 post land base. The issue with it is that it's half a decks land base. 12 cards of 23. If you draw the wrong cards in the 12 post base you get no advantage. If you draw only Vesuva and you have Tomb down, your going to take a lot of damage. Draw the wrong Locus and your just playing Tap lands and gaining a small amount of life.

What this build offers is a stable base. Your not drawing into two separate Mana bases and hoping to get the right one. You can play 12 actual Sol lands and then 4 continual ones. With Urborg you can turn an Eye into a Mishra's Workshop for Eldrazi. I think stability here is better than risk.

[LMental]

I think we should not be aiming to use the 12 post land base. The issue with it is that it's half a decks land base. 12 cards of 23. If you draw the wrong cards in the 12 post base you get no advantage. If you draw only Vesuva and you have Tomb down, your going to take a lot of damage. Draw the wrong Locus and your just playing Tap lands and gaining a small amount of life.

What this build offers is a stable base. Your not drawing into two separate Mana bases and hoping to get the right one. You can play 12 actual Sol lands and then 4 continual ones. With Urborg you can turn an Eye into a Mishra's Workshop for Eldrazi. I think stability here is better than risk.

Yes, I concluded that as well. I'm unsure if we should be playing Urborg, Eye, and City of Traitors as 4 ofs, however. Probably something like 3 of each, or maybe 4 city.

[HdH_Cthulhu]

City: Seems good, we should end up with a more stable mana base then normal stompy list so its less of a hazel. 3-4

Ancient tomb: Not sure if we need dismember or any other life resource eating card. Whatever 4

Tempel: I guess you gonna always be happy to draw them. 4

Eye: Can be awkward but its just too good if you can spam stuff. I hope they print an agressive 3 drop. 3-4

Urborg: The synergy with Eye sounds just awesome. Obv depends on how much Black goes into the list. 3-4

So the rest has to be black producing lands so not much room for utility lands :(

Wasteland strangler seems clunky anyway so why not cut black? idk...


Edit: We can run Faerie macabre! With all that snapcasters around its legit on its own (eldrazis dont care for 2/1 jumpblockers). Can be urborged out in a pinch and obv its a MD gy hate that can process...

[LMental]

City: Seems good, we should end up with a more stable mana base then normal stompy list so its less of a hazel. 3-4

Ancient tomb: Not sure if we need dismember or any other life resource eating card. Whatever 4

Tempel: I guess you gonna always be happy to draw them. 4

Eye: Can be awkward but its just too good if you can spam stuff. I hope they print an agressive 3 drop. 3-4

Urborg: The synergy with Eye sounds just awesome. Obv depends on how much Black goes into the list. 3-4

So the rest has to be black producing lands so not much room for utility lands :(

Wasteland strangler seems clunky anyway so why not cut black? idk...


Edit: We can run Faerie macabre! With all that snapcasters around its legit on its own (eldrazis dont care for 2/1 jumpblockers). Can be urborged out in a pinch and obv its a MD gy hate that can process...


While the idea of playing ~10 black sources is interesting, I'm unsure what black gives us. We don't run the exile cards (short of playing MD Faerie Macabre, which seems awful) to support Wasteland Strangler and Blight Herder. We can't play discard because of Chalice. Or we need to go the more Modern route of playing MD Relic, Spellbomb, and maybe even Scrabbling Claws, along with Strangler and Thoughtseize. Maybe that's worth testing: this would be pretty similar to the modern deck, however, with just 7 more sources of acceleration (4 Tomb + 3 City) and without MD land destruction like Ghost Quarter. So it would be faster than the modern deck, but otherwise I'm not sure we'd get anything from moving to Legacy. Maybe Sensei's Divining Top main.

[ESG]

Edit: We can run Faerie macabre! With all that snapcasters around its legit on its own (eldrazis dont care for 2/1 jumpblockers). Can be urborged out in a pinch and obv its a MD gy hate that can process...

Why not run Leyline of the Void instead? Or Planar Void, if the clash with Chalice isn't a big concern? Those are way more impactful cards than Faerie Macabre. The traditional drawback of Leyline is that it's rough to hard-cast, but this deck would have no trouble doing that.

[Darkenslight]

While the idea of playing ~10 black sources is interesting, I'm unsure what black gives us. We don't run the exile cards (short of playing MD Faerie Macabre, which seems awful) to support Wasteland Strangler and Blight Herder. We can't play discard because of Chalice. Or we need to go the more Modern route of playing MD Relic, Spellbomb, and maybe even Scrabbling Claws, along with Strangler and Thoughtseize. Maybe that's worth testing: this would be pretty similar to the modern deck, however, with just 7 more sources of acceleration (4 Tomb + 3 City) and without MD land destruction like Ghost Quarter. So it would be faster than the modern deck, but otherwise I'm not sure we'd get anything from moving to Legacy. Maybe Sensei's Divining Top main.

Transgress the Mind seems like a really good discard spell at the moment, hitting all but maybe Delver in the core.

[LMental]

Transgress the Mind seems like a really good discard spell at the moment, hitting all but maybe Delver in the core.

Maybe in the SB. Maindeck, it'll whiff far too much. (Against storm it also stinks.)

@ESG: So you're serious about going a graveyard-exile route? Why?

[Cire]

Obviously we can go in many different routes (for example I think G for stirring and crop rotation has some promise) but why don't we narrow down the must runs. . . personally I think no matter what each Legacy eldrazi deck needs the following:


3-4 Eye of Ugin
4 Eldrazi Temple
2-4 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Ancient Tomb
0-4 City of Traitors

4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
4 Warping Wail

Open 24-31

24-31 is a lot of cards left over . . . . and it all depends on if you want to do Processors, Displacer Tricks, Black Discard, MUD package, Stirrings, etc. . . .

Also depends on what else is printed this set - which is a positive and a negative. Negative is that this deck probably will not get stronger after this block. The positive is that we can still get a great overpowered 1CC eldrazi creature

[Dice_Box]

The Eldrazi don't feel like the kind of creatures you would get for 1 Mana. Endless one being the exception. They just don't feel like even at their smallest they are actually small.

[Gheizen64]

I honestly never liked city of traitors. It's a land that basically say "if your opponent control a wasteland, you lose the game". In multiples it is specially horrendous. Now that you have sol lands with basically no drawbacks (Ugin, Temple), i finally see a good reason to move it out from the deck. When you also consider that:

4 Tombs
4 Temples
3 Ugin
3 Urborg
4 Cavern
4 Wastelands

Are 22 lands already, i think you can skip city easily, and play 2-3 duals to round off and make for more possible cards in the sideboard and colored eldrazis, or just go utility lands sea gate/maze of ith/tabernacles/karakas/mishra. Said manabase is really consistent when you consider that you have no lands that suffer from being wasted particularly (no locus, no traitors, no bouncelands).

[Cire]

Also depends on what else is printed this set - which is a positive and a negative. Negative is that this deck probably will not get stronger after this block. The positive is that we can still get a great overpowered 1CC eldrazi creature

Not 1CC but. . .


http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/avatars/thumbnails/81/799/200/283/635877566720394877.png


3/2 that can come down turn 1 if we run accel that replaces itself with a land or itself (assuming we run 25 lands and 4 of this) when it dies. . . then if Eye is around we can spam this for 1 mana.

Seems like an auto - include?

[Gheizen64]

This is probably the list i'm gonna try, for now i could proxy it on cockatrice but it's so annoying.


4 Eldrazi Temple
3 Eye of Ugin
4 Ancient Tomb
3 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Wasteland
4 Cavern of Souls
3 Scrublands

25 lands

3 cmc creatures:
3 Eldrazi Detainer
4 Matter Reshaper
2 Wasteland Strangler (not actually playable T2)

4cmc:
4 Thought-Knot Seer
3 Bearer of Silence (the 1B edict eldrazi, eye don't count as a 2-mana land for it)

5+cmc:
4 Reality Smasher
2 Endbringer
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger

24 Creatures

4 Chalice of the Void
3 Trinisphere
4 Warping Wail

11 Artifact/utility

Matter Reshaper is this:

http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/avatars/thumbnails/81/799/200/283/635877566720394877.png

Running the white eldrazi is probably incorrect, and running something different in black or colorless for maximum consistency in the manabase is probably the correct thing, but i'd like to try it first. The Reshaper is a new card, and it looks really good, as a 3/2 for 2C that play another creature/land on death (yeah i know STP and Terminus, but chalice and trinisphere should stop those a bit, and you creatures should actually die in combat regularly.

I wanted to try playing Mesmeric Fiend as an exile enabler for Strangler that also play nicely in a prison shell with you removing cards that your opponent can play and having chalice for the others. Sadly you run only 6 colored non-cavern sources, so it's not playable imho. I'm also thinking Warping Wail won't be that good in this list because it's really proactive rather than reactive, but it looks really strong in general if you don't have a chaliche T1-T2 as you are low on 2-drops in the list.

Things i'm thinking to change: remove the clunky eldrazis (strangler, detainer) for revokers for additional control/utility and possibly add also eldrazi mimic as an additional 2-drop that you can reliably play.

[Redkid43]

Yup, Matter Reshaper is exactly what this deck needed over clunky cards like Stanger. Good stats, aggressive body, and that card advantage it can and could provide is the actual nutter butters. I'm sold, sign me up

[Cire]

So stuff to consider with Reshaper: it should hit 50% of the deck to maybe be worth it. It already hits itself, lands, trinisphere and cotv. Trinisphere may be good, but the COTV is a dead hit. Additional cards to run may be the kicker eldrazi, but Bearer of silence doesn't take advantage of the 2 mana lands, and it still requires a kicker that we may not be able to pay. Eldrazi Obligator ( 2R Creature - Eldrazi Drone Devoid (This card has no color.) When you cast Eldrazi Obligator, you may pay 1C. If you do, gain control of target creature until end of turn, untap that creature, and it gains haste until end of turn. ( 3/1) may be worth it, as it works with our lands, is aggressive, but also requires kicker. Displacer (the white eldrazi) works with it and our lands and is really good and everything, but isn't great at anything. Strangler also works, but requires processing.

I think from the above 25 lands, 4 Reshaper, 3 Trinisphere, 4 Cotv, 3 Displacer may be the correct shell for running Reshaper. Plus the 4 each of Reality Shasher, Warping Wail, Thought-Knot Seer we are up to 51 cards, and we are running only C and W so far.

[square_two]

I think from the above 25 lands, 4 Reshaper, 3 Trinisphere, 4 Cotv, 3 Displacer may be the correct shell for running Reshaper. Plus the 4 each of Reality Shasher, Warping Wail, Thought-Knot Seer we are up to 51 cards, and we are running only C and W so far.

Suppression Field is also a good hit with Matter Reshaper. Although Suppression Field doesn't work so well with the white Eldrazi guy. But it's great in a deck with no fetches and if no other creatures have activated abilities.

Someone noted that Cabal Therapy is nice with Reshaper :smile:

[Redkid43]

You're still gaining advantage and card draw, which is something Stompy decks simply cannot do. Having Matter Reshaper should fix this considerably.

The next step is fining a lock/Moon effect. A free roll with it from Reshaper would be gravy--and the good ones are always 3 CMC or less. Hitting s black Chalice is bad though, but Reshaper is a may ability, so there's that.

Maybe a green splash for Choke? White for Suppression Field? Blue for Arcane Lab? In the Eye of Chaos?

[Cire]

Suppression Field is also a good hit with Matter Reshaper. Although Suppression Field doesn't work so well with the white Eldrazi guy. But it's great in a deck with no fetches and if no other creatures have activated abilities.

Someone noted that Cabal Therapy is nice with Reshaper :smile:

That's a great idea and the synergy between Displacer and Suppression field isn't deal breaking

[Barook]

What's Eldrazi Detainer? I can't find it. Does he mean Displacer?

As for Gheizen64's list, I still think Caves of Koilos is better here since it can provide C, making it essentially a triland for the deck. Since you're mainly colorless, the damage for colored mana does hardly matter.

Suppression Field is cute, but how are you supposed to cast it with only 3 colored sources?

Black offers Contamination, but I doubt it's the thing we're looking for since we neither have the creatures nor the manabase to run it (completely disabling our ramp).

I'm still looking for ways to break Matter Reshaper. The best thing I can come up with that probably sucks the least is still Volrath's Stronghold. And while cute, it still requires colored mana and is hardly gamebreaking.

[HdH_Cthulhu]

So stuff to consider with Reshaper: it should hit 50% of the deck to maybe be worth it. It already hits itself, lands, trinisphere and cotv. Trinisphere may be good, but the COTV is a dead hit. ...

COTV is NOT a dead hit! You can still let it go to your hand.
Granted its probably not the best card to hit but vs alot decks a later COTV is certainty not dead at all!

[Gheizen64]

What's Eldrazi Detainer? I can't find it. Does he mean Displacer?

As for Gheizen64's list, I still think Caves of Koilos is better here since it can provide C, making it essentially a triland for the deck. Since you're mainly colorless, the damage for colored mana does hardly matter.

Suppression Field is cute, but how are you supposed to cast it with only 3 colored sources?

Black offers Contamination, but I doubt it's the thing we're looking for since we neither have the creatures nor the manabase to run it (completely disabling our ramp).

I'm still looking for ways to break Matter Reshaper. The best thing I can come up with that probably sucks the least is still Volrath's Stronghold. And while cute, it still requires colored mana and is hardly gamebreaking.

From my limited testing, having C is the last of your issue tbh. I never actually wished my scrublands were koilos, not when more than half the lands you have produce C anyway (tomb, wasteland, cavern, temple).

Strangler and the 2/1 flier edict together seems a bit redundant, a 2/2 split is probably enough, with a 3/2 or even 3/3 possible depending on the metagame. Against Storm and Miracle Strangler don't actually do much, and the edict is bad vs elves especially as it is sorta hard to cast (get reduced by only 1 by ugin). Phyrexian tower is actually a cute card, especially if you find space for mesmeric fiend with the permanent exile trick, and in the end it still produce C. I actually tried to run mesmeric fiend with 4 caverns, 3 scrublands, 3 urborg, and i've found the card is easier to cast than i thought. You have to sacrifice a cavern for it sometimes, but it's not that bad tbh, and having a good T1-T2 play is a big deal for this deck honestly. You have some really awkward early turns.

The white eldrazi really impressed me, especially with how you have a lot of spare mana midgame. It essentially make all your dudes unkillable and unblockable, while having some side-sinergy with strangler and seer. It also unequip creatures and exile marit lage tokens.

EDIT: a good sideboard tech card for us is Winter Orb, since Ugin don't actually tap and most of the time untapping just sol land is enough for your mana needs. A good consideration against lands and especially good with the other lock pieces like cotv and trinisphere which force the opponent to tap multiple lands against our 1 sometimes 2.

[Barook]

From my limited testing, having C is the last of your issue tbh. I never actually wished my scrublands were koilos, not when more than half the lands you have produce C anyway (tomb, wasteland, cavern, temple).

Strangler and the 2/1 flier edict together seems a bit redundant, a 2/2 split is probably enough, with a 3/2 or even 3/3 possible depending on the metagame. Against Storm and Miracle Strangler don't actually do much, and the edict is bad vs elves especially as it is sorta hard to cast (get reduced by only 1 by ugin). Phyrexian tower is actually a cute card, especially if you find space for mesmeric fiend with the permanent exile trick, and in the end it still produce C. I actually tried to run mesmeric fiend with 4 caverns, 3 scrublands, 3 urborg, and i've found the card is easier to cast than i thought. You have to sacrifice a cavern for it sometimes, but it's not that bad tbh, and having a good T1-T2 play is a big deal for this deck honestly. You have some really awkward early turns.

The white eldrazi really impressed me, especially with how you have a lot of spare mana midgame. It essentially make all your dudes unkillable and unblockable, while having some side-sinergy with strangler and seer. It also unequip creatures and exile marit lage tokens.

EDIT: a good sideboard tech card for us is Winter Orb, since Ugin don't actually tap and most of the time untapping just sol land is enough for your mana needs. A good consideration against lands and especially good with the other lock pieces like cotv and trinisphere which force the opponent to tap multiple lands against our 1 sometimes 2.
What was your impression of the deck so far regardingv emptying its hand? Could it run Sea Gate Wreckage?

Re: Winter Orb: Sounds good.

[Cire]

COTV is NOT a dead hit! You can still let it go to your hand.
Granted its probably not the best card to hit but vs alot decks a later COTV is certainty not dead at all!

Totally didn't realize it was a may clause :smile:

[Gheizen64]

What was your impression of the deck so far regardingv emptying its hand? Could it run Sea Gate Wreckage?

Re: Winter Orb: Sounds good.

Tbh i didn't find the lack of cards an issue. Our threats tend to game the game extremely fast or are hard to answer (Reality Crasher, Thought-Knot discarding removal, chalice to blank most removal spells, trinisphere to slow it all, cavern to make all uncounterable). Matter Reshaper is way better than i expected because people tend to use swords on Thought-Knot to get their card back and on reality crashers to not die so you draw card consistently off it.
Warping wail is good vs miracle because it allow you to counter those terminus and entreats which are the two cards you really care about, as swords can be easily inefficient/too mana intensive (with spheres, chalices , reality crashers). I haven't tested it vs many other decks but on paper is really good vs BUG too as:
- it exile DRS, acting as a pseudo-sphere
- counter visions in case you don't just stick a cotv at 0
- counter hymn and targeted discard, maelstrom pulses etc...
Obviously it is super good vs elves, and it sound decent to serviceable against SnT decks.
The biggest problem, as always, is the mana to cast all things consistently, so much that i've been testing grim monoliths in the deck. It can make for some silly openings if you happen to draw it, a sol land, and an ugin, as you have effectively 9 mana if you cast 2 eldrazi T2 (which is easy, and 9 is nice because it's 3 +6 or 4+5 which are most of the eldrazi you run). Monolith is also good with ugin because it allow you to activate it as soon as you get 4 mana beside ugin itself (so usually on 5 lands or 4 if you have a tomb out). Yeah it's a bit slow, but it let you fetch spaghetti monsters which is pretty good lategame. Too bad the new eldrazi don't have reshuffle triggers if they die, or else i'd be totes playing some sac-land to go for infinite newlamogs :laugh:

This is the decklist i'm currently trying btw:

//28 Mana sources (24 lands)
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Wasteland
4 Cavern of Souls
3 Eye of Ugin
3 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2 City of Traitors
4 Grim Monolith

//Spaghetti (17):
4 Matter Reshaper
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
2 Wasteland Strangler
2 Endbringer
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
//or
1 All is Dust

//Permission/Prison (11):
4 Warping Wails
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Trinisphere

//Flex Slots (4):
2 Winter Orb
2 Phyrexian Revoker

The 2 Traitors are a try and probably a necessary evil to get maximum consistency. As a 2-of it's not that bad because you can always keep them as the last land to play. I still don't like it but i can't deny the fact that as your 2nd or 3rd land they are really good, if only because there are no other sol lands in this format (unless you consider things like Crystal Vein). I also am testing 4 flexible slots in the build, as of now they are 2 winter orbs and 2 Revokers (i had actually spatial contortion in it before revokers as additional removal). The 2 Traitors are 2 more flexible spots, while i think Monoliths are really good because they always have an use early on for being explosive and later on to be grindy with Ugin. Maybe 3 and 1 more land though.
Also i'd love if the deck catched on with the name Spaghetti al Nero di Seppia/Black Ink Spaghetti or some variant on Spaghetti since it's essentially a spaghettti deck with a black splash :laugh:

EDIT: some changes

[Cire]

Some questions:

How useful/necessary are you finding Wasteland Strangler, Endbringer, Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger? I don't feel that we accel into Ulamog that well and it seems like a dead card a lot. Strangler seems weak since we don't have much processing. . . have you tested displacer in its place? If we run out of cards it still allows us to control the board. Endbringer looks good though.

Another Idea is Mimic to drop off Reshaper, and to generally allow us to race - I know it's not a great card - constantly requiring you to drop more eldrazri, but it lets us do silly things with Eye of Ugin.

[Gheizen64]

Some questions:

How useful/necessary are you finding Wasteland Strangler, Endbringer, Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger? I don't feel that we accel into Ulamog that well and it seems like a dead card a lot. Strangler seems weak since we don't have much processing. . . have you tested displacer in its place? If we run out of cards it still allows us to control the board. Endbringer looks good though.

Another Idea is Mimic to drop off Reshaper, and to generally allow us to race - I know it's not a great card - constantly requiring you to drop more eldrazri, but it lets us do silly things with Eye of Ugin.

Ulamog is clunky but not that much. Over a long span of games i think there are more times where you win by fetching him than you lose because you get stuck with him in hand, especially with Monolith. It's just a question of testing many games and seeing where it goes. As of now i'm more inclined toward running him than not. If i were to replace him, the most straight replacement is surely All is dust . Too bad it doesn't work with cavern, but it's the only other card which can get you wins out of nowhere and at 7 it rarely will get stuck in your hand, you could even run 2.

Displacer is probably just better than Strangler... but it cost :2: :w: which is really bad as you can cast it only with cavern, also, without processors, all your triggers are on-cast so it has less utility while still being really good at protection/removing blockers/tokens etc...
It doesn't play great yeah i know, but he's really good vs tempo decks as you can use their fow and DRS activations, and remove their delver/DRS whatever (you still have warping wail and Thought-Knot Seer to exile cards). It could be replaced, probably with spatial distortion as you really can use some removal. The bearer of Sorrow has the problem that is 1B and 1C to kicker, which is awkward because ugin and temple only work as a single mana producing lands, and the card kicked cost 4, meaning you often actually need 4 lands to play it, that's like 6 mana for a normal eldrazi, way too slow.

The mimic seems cute but i don't think i'm interested in 2/1 in a more midrangey build. They feel like they'd be good in a list with a lot of 2-3 drops (are there even?) , 4 ugins, and some dumb combo for fast kills.

EDIT: didn't read about Endbringer. Yeah, honestly, it looked a lot win-more to me. If it stick, you win, but that's true of a 5/5 haste trampler too, in most cases. I feel like he's too easily removed or just ignored because of how slow he is. I still think the card is good but it deserve testing to see if it can earn its spot. It's entirely possible to go down to 1 endbringer as a ugin target only.

[LMental]

Ok so now with Matter Reshaper I think we're at:

4 Ancient Tomb
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Wasteland
3 Eye of Ugin
3 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2 Sea Gate Wreckage
2 Cavern of Souls
2 City of Traitors

4 Grim Monolith

4 Chalice of the Void
4 Trinisphere
4 Warping Wail
2 Spatial Contortion

4 Endless One
4 Matter Reshaper
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
2 Endbringer


Perhaps we can somehow bring Smokestack into this, due to its interaction with Matter Reshaper? But maybe that's not necessary. What else is it good with here? Maybe Crucible of Worlds can make an appearance? Eldrazi Stax?

I'm liking the look of Mono-Brown.

[Cire]

Ulamog is clunky but not that much. Over a long span of games i think there are more times where you win by fetching him than you lose because you get stuck with him in hand, especially with Monolith. It's just a question of testing many games and seeing where it goes. As of now i'm more inclined toward running him than not. If i were to replace him, the most straight replacement is surely All is dust . Too bad it doesn't work with cavern, but it's the only other card which can get you wins out of nowhere and at 7 it rarely will get stuck in your hand, you could even run 2.

Displacer is probably just better than Strangler... but it cost :2: :w: which is really bad as you can cast it only with cavern, also, without processors, all your triggers are on-cast so it has less utility while still being really good at protection/removing blockers/tokens etc...
It doesn't play great yeah i know, but he's really good vs tempo decks as you can use their fow and DRS activations, and remove their delver/DRS whatever (you still have warping wail and Thought-Knot Seer to exile cards). It could be replaced, probably with spatial distortion as you really can use some removal. The bearer of Sorrow has the problem that is 1B and 1C to kicker, which is awkward because ugin and temple only work as a single mana producing lands, and the card kicked cost 4, meaning you often actually need 4 lands to play it, that's like 6 mana for a normal eldrazi, way too slow.

The mimic seems cute but i don't think i'm interested in 2/1 in a more midrangey build. They feel like they'd be good in a list with a lot of 2-3 drops (are there even?) , 4 ugins, and some dumb combo for fast kills.

What about playing 4 mox diamond, we have enough land, and it can be used for the displacer W cost and to accel stuff out turn 1 and even lead to a turn 2 Smasher. . .

So your list but:

+2 Eldrazi Displacer
+1 Sea Gate
+4 Mox Diamond
-2 Wasteland Strangler
-1 All is Dust
-2 Winter Orb
-2 Phyrexian Revoker

But, unlike you I haven't tested Orb or Revoker yet. . .

----

We can also run Stangler in the board against tempo decks? Mox, urborg and caverns will allow us to play any black eldrazi.

[Gheizen64]

What about playing 4 mox diamond, we have enough land, and it can be used for the displacer W cost and to accel stuff out turn 1 and even lead to a turn 2 Smasher. . .

So your list but:

+2 Eldrazi Displacer
+1 Sea Gate
+4 Mox Diamond
-2 Wasteland Strangler
-1 All is Dust
-2 Winter Orb
-2 Phyrexian Revoker

But, unlike you I haven't tested Orb or Revoker yet. . .

----

We can also run Stangler in the board against tempo decks? Mox, urborg and caverns will allow us to play any black eldrazi.

I'm not particularly fond of moxen because of how unconsistent they are. In all my MUD experiments i've found mana is the biggest problems of those deck and moxen exacerbate it, making them even more explosive but even more unstable. I wouldn't play moxen in decks which don't have tons of card draw.

And yeah strangler is a 4-of in the deck+sb, but how many of those in the sb depends on the meta i guess. I think i'll start from 2 and 1 Spatial Contortion, 1 All is Dust as removal. Strangler is also pretty evil against BUG shardless as an ancestral vision counter :P

Also i think it was a bit obvious, but Reality Smasher is stupidly good, unless you play against goyfs. But seriously, 5/5 tramplers with haste that are resilient to removal and come down T3 , why not.

EDIT: some thoughts on the SB:

2 Wasteland Strangler
1 Spatial Contortion
3 Sphere of Resistance
2 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Tormod's Crypt
1 All is Dust
2 Ratchet Bomb
3 flex slots, possibly more ways to answer moons aside from ratchet bombs because moons make us unable to play anything...

[Cire]

I'm not particularly fond of moxen because of how unconsistent they are. In all my MUD experiments i've found mana is the biggest problems of those deck and moxen exacerbate it, making them even more explosive but even more unstable. I wouldn't play moxen in decks which don't have tons of card draw.
.

What about lotus petal to cheat out an early Displacer or Reshaper? (or save it for turn two Smasher?)

----

Random Idea . . . why not equipment? Even our charm can carry a jitte :tongue:

[Dice_Box]

The Eldrazi don't feel like the kind of creatures you would get for 1 Mana. Endless one being the exception. They just don't feel like even at their smallest they are actually small.
Now don't I look like a fool?

[Gheizen64]

What about lotus petal to cheat out an early Displacer or Reshaper? (or save it for turn two Smasher?)

----

Random Idea . . . why not equipment? Even our charm can carry a jitte :tongue:

No sinergy with equips at all?

Also Eye can't get All is Dust and i've been playing a 58 card list deck lol.

[rufus]

So stuff to consider with Reshaper: it should hit 50% of the deck to maybe be worth it. It already hits itself, lands, trinisphere and cotv. Trinisphere may be good, but ...
I think from the above 25 lands, 4 Reshaper, 3 Trinisphere, 4 Cotv, 3 Displacer may be the correct shell for running Reshaper. Plus the 4 each of Reality Shasher, Warping Wail, Thought-Knot Seer we are up to 51 cards, and we are running only C and W so far.

Some crazy ideas would be Jester's Scepter if you're playing with processors or, Grim Monolith and Candelabra of Tawnos for mana.

[Barook]

I'm not particularly fond of moxen because of how unconsistent they are. In all my MUD experiments i've found mana is the biggest problems of those deck and moxen exacerbate it, making them even more explosive but even more unstable. I wouldn't play moxen in decks which don't have tons of card draw.
Wouldn't Mox Diamond become better if you ran CoW? And wouldn't CoW become better alongside Ghost Quarter to supplement the Waste lock and Smokestack? Probably terrible and less consistent, but maybe someone wants to experiment with it.

@rufus: Face-down cards can't be processed.

[rufus]

...
@rufus: Face-down cards can't be processed.


Gatherer seems to think so:

http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=402000



... If you want to put a face-down card in exile into its owner’s graveyard ...


And, since Jester's Scepter lets you look at them, I think you're even allowed to pick the cards.



406.4.
Face-down cards in exile should be kept in separate piles based on when they were exiled and how they were exiled. If a player is instructed to choose an exiled card,
the player may choose a specific face-down card only if the player is allowed to look at that card.
...


Apparently, if you have something like Pyxis of Pandemonium, each card exiled by pyxis goes into its own pile in case you want to pick a specific pile later for some reason.

[ESG]

Maybe in the SB. Maindeck, it'll whiff far too much. (Against storm it also stinks.)

@ESG: So you're serious about going a graveyard-exile route? Why?

I'm not. I was just suggesting that as an improvement over Faerie Macabre for the contingent who want to explore the exile route. If those folks are relying on creatures that have their drawbacks mitigated by the number of cards exiled, Leyline is a way to exile lots of cards quickly. This thread is getting a lot of posts and development, so I'm going to step out for a while.

[Snief]

I honestly think trinisphere is wrong in this deck, it just doesn't synergize with eye of ugin. I would play thorn of amethyst in this spot.

[Gheizen64]

I honestly think trinisphere is wrong in this deck, it just doesn't synergize with eye of ugin. I would play thorn of amethyst in this spot.

Ugin and Trinisphere slow yourself more than Sphere only if you have them together on the table and want to cast a 3-mana eldrazi spell. On the other hand, spheres are worse for you since they increase all your spells by 1 (since you play no 1 cmc spells, trini for you is at most a 1 mana increase like sphere but much worse for your opponent usually). Sphere has for it that it is more easily castable T1, which i think is crucial vs combo, but not much vs other decks. The fact that trinisphere is almost twice the effect of SoR against normal decks and slow your development usually less than spheres do make me lean more toward trinisphere right now.

Thorn is imho strictly a meta choice. With so many creatures around , it's too risky to run it over spheres especially when you have such a powerful mana base which can counteract a mana increase of your creature way more easily than your opponent.

[Cire]

From the completed spoiler it doesn't look like any additional Eldrazi were spoiled - so we are free to take a breather and test the various builds we were already working on.

----


Kozilek's Shrieker can be included in the flex spots

2B
Devoid
C: +1/+0 and menace
3/2

It can ETB from a Reshaper
If you run accel it can ETB turn 1 - in that case, it can attack turn 2 as a 7/2 (4 colorless mana) and is hard to block - most probably it will attack as a 4/2 menace which isn't bad at all.

[Gheizen64]

Kozilek Shrieker seems a possible card yeah, especially because it use extra mana (and work with temple), maybe i'll try the flicker eldrazi again even with only 4 mana sources for him. Endbringer sadly disappeared from my list, proved too unconsistent and slow for my tastes, i actually used him less than i used Ugin. Yeah Ugin cost 4 more but it has immediate impact at least, Endbringer just disappointed me so much in test.

Also i played vs infect and ratchet bomb not hitting lands is pretty relevant in the MU. On the other hand, powder keg can't hit walkers and enchantments, but how often is that relevant? Dunno.

Also, i opened the thread as a BW eldrazi list, but then i swiftly went to a colorless list with a slight splash. However i still believe there's some good in a more colored version with DRS and no chalices because DRS is so good.

Finally, Thought-Knot Seer is the stone cold nuts. It preorder at 3 dollars and i'd grab as many as you can cause this card is going up.

[Redkid43]

Do you have an updated list?

[Cire]

I do think it's correct to move from stompy to just midrange. . . . Think of this deck as midrange, but can play midrange a turn or two earlier. . .


-
Here is a weird Eldrazi B.C. list i'm testing (I liked calling it BC). It's not really stompy anymore though. . . but it does let me do stuff like -

This is just an example:

1st - Cave of Kilos - Cabal Therapy
2nd - Eye of Ugin - Cast Reshaper - sac to Therapy, get a card and around two thirds of the time it will put something into play - 20% hits a creature with <3 mana cost, 40% hits a land, 6.5% hits Monolith, otherwise it will draw you a card. If you get a land or monolith (around a quarter of the time in this situation), and you did play eye this turn - you can go Thought-Knot Seer or even Smasher. If you get a strangler - you kill their delver or whatever. If you get Shrieker. . . do nothing at the moment. If you just draw a card and/or did not play eye, you still used the therapy twice.
3rd - Ancient Tomb - You can cast Smasher now, or go thoughtseize/Dismember - though-knot. Or cast your discard/kill and you can attack with shrieker for 7 essentially unblockable. . .


-24 Lands
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Cave of Kilos
3 Eye of Ugin
3 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2 City of Traitors

- 16 Spells
4 Cabal Therapy
2 Thoughtseize
4 Warping Wail
4 Grim Monolith
2 Dismember

- 20 Creatures
4 Matter Reshaper
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
4 Wasteland Strangler
4 Kozilek's Shrieker

[Gheizen64]

I do think it's correct to move from stompy to just midrange. . . . Think of this deck as midrange, but can play midrange a turn or two earlier. . .


-
Here is a weird Eldrazi B.C. list i'm testing (I liked calling it BC). It's not really stompy anymore though. . . but it does let me do stuff like -

This is just an example:

1st - Cave of Kilos - Cabal Therapy
2nd - Eye of Ugin - Cast Reshaper - sac to Therapy, get a card and around two thirds of the time it will put something into play - 20% hits a creature with <3 mana cost, 40% hits a land, 6.5% hits Monolith, otherwise it will draw you a card. If you get a land or monolith (around a quarter of the time in this situation), and you did play eye this turn - you can go Thought-Knot Seer or even Smasher. If you get a strangler - you kill their delver or whatever. If you get Shrieker. . . do nothing at the moment. If you just draw a card and/or did not play eye, you still used the therapy twice.
3rd - Ancient Tomb - You can cast Smasher now, or go thoughtseize/Dismember - though-knot. Or cast your discard/kill and you can attack with shrieker for 7 essentially unblockable. . .


-24 Lands
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Cave of Kilos
3 Eye of Ugin
3 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2 City of Traitors

- 16 Spells
4 Cabal Therapy
2 Thoughtseize
4 Warping Wail
4 Grim Monolith
2 Dismember

- 20 Creatures
4 Matter Reshaper
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
4 Wasteland Strangler
4 Kozilek's Shrieker


I like this list a lot. I'd consider DRS instead of monolith since you don't play Chalice.

My updated list is:


4 Eldrazi Temple
3 Eye of Ugin
4 Ancient Tomb
3 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Wasteland
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Chalice of the Void
2 City of Traitors
4 Grim Monolith

3 Trinisphere
2 All Is Dust
2 Ratchet Bomb
4 Warping Wail

2 Wasteland Strangler
2 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Matter Reshaper
4 Reality Smasher
1 Kozilek's Shrieker

SB: 2 Wasteland Strangler
SB: 2 Phyrexian Revoker
SB: 2 Ratchet Bomb
SB: 2 Tormod's Crypt
SB: 3 Sphere of Resistance
SB: 1 All Is Dust
SB: 2 Pithing Needle
SB: 1 Dismember

I like your list more tbh. Therapy/Reshaper with a lower curve seems really good sinergy. Too bad for CotV.

EDIT: the shrieker is actually a good card. I guess i'll up them to two, remove maybe one monolith.

[Barook]

I like this list a lot. I'd consider DRS instead of monolith since you don't play Chalice.
With the manabase we're currently working out, I don't think DRS would be more than a glorified Squire or shitty mana bird (relying on your opponent) since we lack fetches AND mana to activate it.

[Gheizen64]

With the manabase we're currently working out, I don't think DRS would be more than a glorified Squire or shitty mana bird (relying on your opponent) since we lack fetches AND mana to activate it.

Right i forgot DRS actually need you to play fetches to give mana. Oh well nevermind then.

I've moved away from Revokers btw. I think just playing needle is better cause a 2/1 body is just too fragile to reliably stop anything from happening. And against walkers, a menace creature is pretty good vs them anyway. If you are at the point were you can't stick anything, then you probably lost Revokers or not. Shrieker is for sure worse vs D&T and Miracle since it can't stop Tops and Vial (mom is a 0 issue for this deck), but having a mana sink creature which can single-handedly put a clock on them is pretty nice too. Obviously since Needle cost 1, i play 4 in the SB and none maindeck.

Playing 1 more shrieker and 1 spatial contortion in their place. Maybe dismember is a better card than contortion, not sure. Contortion is easier on life which is important since you already kill yourself fast with tombs, while dismember can kill mid-sized goyfs and most prowess creatures even with 3 triggers. Maybe i'll just play slaugther pact :cool:

EDIT: going with contortion for now. Really need some more answers for those delvers and dismember 4 life on top of tombs is too much in this format. The fact that it can double as damage in emergency situations is pretty nice. Wail is amazing, i've already won a couple games by setting up letal with the token or negating batterskull lifegain, getting a lethal block with it, negating a Liliana edict etc... for the worst mode, it has a lot of uses.

[Snief]

Ugin and Trinisphere slow yourself more than Sphere only if you have them together on the table and want to cast a 3-mana eldrazi spell. On the other hand, spheres are worse for you since they increase all your spells by 1 (since you play no 1 cmc spells, trini for you is at most a 1 mana increase like sphere but much worse for your opponent usually). Sphere has for it that it is more easily castable T1, which i think is crucial vs combo, but not much vs other decks. The fact that trinisphere is almost twice the effect of SoR against normal decks and slow your development usually less than spheres do make me lean more toward trinisphere right now.

Thorn is imho strictly a meta choice. With so many creatures around , it's too risky to run it over spheres especially when you have such a powerful mana base which can counteract a mana increase of your creature way more easily than your opponent.

I did have a few test games with a mono brown list vs RUG Deliver and both trinisphere and spheres/thorn were underwhelming. The games I won were when I got hands that could cast two creatures in the first three or four turns. Like: t1 monolith, t2 5/5 trample haste guy, t3 endless one (really surprised by this one), wasteland.
So, after 10 games or sth, few notes for you guys:
- stompy seems better than stax, at least vs tempo
- warping wail is really sick (duh!), although there aren't many targets vs RUG, really digging the potential of this
- endbringer is too slow, maybe play only one as a tutorable target?
- endless one (x mana x/x) on the other hand is really good, even as a early pressure 2/2, would play 2-4
- I think the line for playable creatures is around 5 mana, creatures which are more expensive to cast only deserve a 1of slot in the deck with a maximum of +-3 one ofs in the whole deck

Will test a black(er) list next. Sorry for this messy post, I'm on my phone :P

[Gheizen64]

Yeah, endless one seems cute, too bad it don't work with reshaper. The more i think about it, the more i think the Red threaten eldrazi is amazing, since it's a lot of haste damage If u kicker it that can really mess with board states. The mana is a problem though.

EDIT: I've tried the red eldrazi and didn't convince me. There are still 4-8 slots in the deck that feel really subpar.

An interesting version of the deck i've seen was monoblack ramp with the 1B enchantment that make your creatures cost 2 less but give them -1/-1. It was much more top end compared to this deck and looked a lot of fun.

[MD.Ghost]

Since we got the full Spoiler I also brewed around a little bit.

This is a very raw sketch of my White Eldrazi list.

// Deck: White Eldrazi Brew (60)

// Lands
4 Wasteland
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Cavern of Souls
3 Eldrazi Temple
3 Flagstones of Trokair
3 Plains
2 Karakas
2 City of Traitors

// Creatures
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Thoughtknot Seer
4 Eldrazi Displacer
2 Endbringer

// Spells
4 Mox Diamond
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Trinisphere
4 Warping Wail
2 Crucible of Worlds
1 Batterskull
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Umezawa's Jitte

// Sideboard
3 Rest in Peace
3 Oblivion Ring
2 Magus of the Tabernacle
2 Containment Priest
2 Armageddon
2 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Batterskull

With prison elements, mox and cavern it should be easy to include Stoneforge, which is still a powerful play. Eldrazi with Equipment also seems good because you can outclass Creatures like gofy or knight.

[Cire]

I like this list a lot. I'd consider DRS instead of monolith since you don't play Chalice.

Therapy/Reshaper with a lower curve seems really good sinergy. Too bad for CotV.

EDIT: the shrieker is actually a good card. I guess i'll up them to two, remove maybe one monolith.

Glad you like my list!

Yes, I do think dropping cotv and sphere for discard, especially therapy is the right call. Additionally in testing I upped my peremenant count by getting rid of dismember (costs too much life).

I added in displacer, since getting white for eldrazi creatures isn't hard with caves and cavern of souls, especially with matter reshaper.

So currently my last list with:

-2 dismember
-1 strangler
-1 shrieker
-1 grim monolith
+3 eldrazi displacer
+2 mix diamond

You need the mox to run the white for displacer, you need at least 10 white sources.

Running displacer ups your peremenant count for reshaper, and does tricks with strangler and thought-knot.

And, so glad I called it with shrieker.... That card is hilariously effective....

[Gheizen64]

I suggest you add a a pro-green sword, feast and famine probably, because one of the biggest problems you have is that you can't get past goyfs and knights. I didn't find Endbringer particularly good honestly, i'd run Reality Smasher in their places. With equipments Matter Reshaper seems also a good include as you play more permanents that are good off him dying and it's still a 3 cmc creature playable off temples.

[Barook]

Since we got the full Spoiler I also brewed around a little bit.

This is a very raw sketch of my White Eldrazi list.

// Deck: White Eldrazi Brew (60)

// Lands
4 Wasteland
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Cavern of Souls
3 Eldrazi Temple
3 Flagstones of Trokair
3 Plains
2 Karakas
2 City of Traitors

// Creatures
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Thoughtknot Seer
4 Eldrazi Displacer
2 Endbringer

// Spells
4 Mox Diamond
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Trinisphere
4 Warping Wail
2 Crucible of Worlds
1 Batterskull
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Umezawa's Jitte

// Sideboard
3 Rest in Peace
3 Oblivion Ring
2 Magus of the Tabernacle
2 Containment Priest
2 Armageddon
2 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Batterskull

With prison elements, mox and cavern it should be easy to include Stoneforge, which is still a powerful play. Eldrazi with Equipment also seems good because you can outclass Creatures like gofy or knight.
Shouldn't you run at least one copy of Dust Bowl for shenanigans with Flagstones and CoW?

I'm glad somebody came up with a SFM list, since I was about to suggest SFM/equipment to gain life recovery. Reality Smasher seems like a good card to go with equipment due to its evasion. Same goes for Kozilek's Shrieker, but I completely forgot it costs black mana to cast initially, which is a shame. Menace + (pro) equipment sounded like a fun idea.

Assuming Mox Diamond doesn't work as white mana provider, Talisman of Progress or Talisman of Unity might be an alternative.

As for the SB, why not run Ethersworn Canonist? And how is Magus of the Tabernacle better than its land counterpart, price aside?

[MD.Ghost]

Thanks for the fast reply - as i mentioned it was only a quick idea and the build is only a brew in my mind (and i like to thought about uncommen deck ideas). So i have no idea what slots in a real game situation, but i have a good overview about the meta and some good experience with another stompy shell (sylvan plug) and knew the pros and cons if you play with Prison stuff.

Main question here is - which route you will go with the Eldrazi deck:
-Stompy-Shell with Prison elements (Chalice/Trinisphere)
-Aggro-Shell with Eye of Ugin unload an Eldrazi Swarm with lots of cc3 Creatures
-Stompy-Ramp Mix like MUD, play Chalice and ramp quick into bigger Creatures/Walkers
and all can be brewed with a color splash (white and/or black) or stay "brown".


I suggest you add a a pro-green sword, feast and famine probably, because one of the biggest problems you have is that you can't get past goyfs and knights. I didn't find Endbringer particularly good honestly, i'd run Reality Smasher in their places. With equipments Matter Reshaper seems also a good include as you play more permanents that are good off him dying and it's still a 3 cmc creature playable off temples.

Yeah you are right, one of the biggest issues you can get is all the BGx spells around: Gofy, Decay and all the other good Midrange stuff are a pain for most stompy lists because Chalice&Trinisphere aren't the big deal here. A simple Gofy/Knight can be a problem. I would cut the 2nd Batterskull from Side and try a Sword of Feast and Famine, but any Eldrazi with Sword of Fire and Ice or an active Jitte should also work as an maindeck answer. As i mentioned the build isn't tested so it seems thinkable that Endbringer isn't good enough and the Reality Smasher is the better finisher. Matter Reshaper seems nice, but i can't find a spot for him without playtests.


Shouldn't you run at least one copy of Dust Bowl for shenanigans with Flagstones and CoW?

I'm glad somebody came up with a SFM list, since I was about to suggest SFM/equipment to gain life recovery. Reality Smasher seems like a good card to go with equipment due to its evasion. Same goes for Kozilek's Shrieker, but I completely forgot it costs black mana to cast initially, which is a shame. Menace + (pro) equipment sounded like a fun idea.

Assuming Mox Diamond doesn't work as white mana provider, Talisman of Progress or Talisman of Unity might be an alternative.

As for the SB, why not run Ethersworn Canonist? And how is Magus of the Tabernacle better than its land counterpart, price aside?

I remember lots of good utility lands from Sylvan Plug, but you can't play them all without a good manipulation (library, knights, fetches etc.). I don't know if the number for Plains/White-Sources is right and if i can cut something for another "colorless" land. Instead of Dust Bowl i would go with Ghost Quarter - i really liked it in Plug and with Crucible and Sphere it is easier to apply a lock (especially vs some basic plains from miracle or the one offs from lands and aggro loam etc.). Don't know if Flagstones are right, i can also see a couple of Horizon Canopy as a "draw" engine under Crucible, i would also like Mishra's Factory, Maze etc. - you can see - a lot of stuff and a lot of testing to find the right config...

As i mentioned above - you all are right about Reality Smasher! I will include (see below) it.

Mox Diamond should be fine for White (or Black) if you play enough lands (and include Crucible) and most important it can ramp out stuff Turn 1! My build with 4 Tombs, 2 Citys and 4 Moxes contains 10 Options to start the Game with a 2 or 3 Mana Shot - not so bad if it is the way you want to go. But yeah if you don't want more useless Spells later (which can be true for any lockpiece) you should search for a mana artifact or simply go the aggro route with more creatures and less ramp+prison.

Ethersworn Canonist - don't like this guy because it is only "another" Artifact/Permanent against Storm which will only be good if you get other lockpieces around him (to prevent a simple and common "EoT Decay into Win" situation), but as i mentioned, all 75 cards aren't tested so i can't say what is needed as a sideboard option.

Magus of the Tabernacle - Yeah the Tabernacle Land is stuff i don't own so i will not include it in a brew. The Magus is resilient vs Removal (Bolt/Decay), can block a Gofy and isn't hard to cast in a stompy shell with Sollands/Moxen. There are a lot of other Options like Spatial Contortion, Dismember, a lot of cc2 removal if you play black especially with a sweeper like Toxic Deluge.

---------
Conclusion:

After your comments i would change my build above like this:
Main: -2 Endbringer, -1 Eldrazi Displacer, +3 Reality Smasher
Side: -1 Batterskull, +1 Sword of Feast and Famine, -2 Magus of the Tabernacle, +2 Spatial Contortion

[Cire]

My list currently. Of note this is not a stompy list, as M.D. Ghost stated this is of the aggro variety.

During testing - here are my notes:

I miss having wasteland a lot, but I can't find any room for it. To run waste land I tried pulling two monoliths and replacing them with wastelands, but found myself flooded a lot.
I love having displacer. Not just for the tricks with strangler and seer, but just as a mana dump. In this aggro shell you usually have a lot of mana left over and you don't always want to drop all your threats from your hand. As such it helps having shrieker and displacer to dump your mana
Shrieker is quiet good.
I am not running enough quality renewal. Strangler is fine, and Wail is great, but I really wish I had space for Oblivion Ring or even STP. I even miss dismember, even though that wasn't great either. Basically, this deck has a hard time dealing with a Goyf, which. . . is not a great position to be in.



-24 Lands
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Cave of Kilos
3 Eye of Ugin
3 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2 City of Traitors

- 15 Spells
4 Cabal Therapy
2 Thoughtseize
4 Warping Wail
3 Grim Monolith
2 Mox diamond

- 21 Creatures
4 Matter Reshaper
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
3 Eldrazi Displacer
3 Wasteland Strangler
3 Kozilek's Shrieker

[MGB]

4 Ancient Tomb
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Eye of Ugin
4 Wasteland
3 City of Traitors
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth

4 Chalice of the Void
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Umezawa's Jitte

4 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Eldrazi Mimic
4 Endless One
4 Matter Reshaper
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
4 Oblivion Sower
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
1 Kozilek, the Great Distortion


I think you have to go full-on Stompy to really make this idea work.

Alternatively, you can splash black and cut Wasteland for more black sources, which lets you play Strangler and Bearer of Silence:



4 Ancient Tomb
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Eye of Ugin
1 Swamp
3 City of Traitors
4 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth

4 Chalice of the Void
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Umezawa's Jitte

4 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Eldrazi Mimic
4 Wasteland Strangler
4 Matter Reshaper
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
4 Bearer of Silence
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
1 Kozilek, the Great Distortion

[rufus]

...

An interesting version of the deck i've seen was monoblack ramp with the 1B enchantment that make your creatures cost 2 less but give them -1/-1. It was much more top end compared to this deck and looked a lot of fun.

You're thinking of Heartless Summoning. With the Eldrazi focus, and sol lands, Urza's Incubator could also be a possibility. Though I'm not sure that the payoff cards justify that kind of investment in ramping.

[Ralf]

4 Eldrazi Mimic





At least someone is testing Mimic.

That card is bonker.

A starting hand containing "Eye of Ugin + 1 or 2 Mimic + a fatty (4/4; 5/5)" can make someone cry by T4.

All is dust is too good to be eschewed.


Here is a midrangy list that pretty rolls over a lot of T1 decks (as a starting point since the mana base has yet to be adjusted to deal with Blood Moon):
Wasteland is pretty unecessary as you will most likely lose velocity.

High velocity, high pressure are usually enough to grant a sheer "kill".


Lands (24)

4 Cavern of Souls
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Glimmer post
4 Cloud post
4 Eldrazi Temple
2 Eye of Ugin
2 Vesuva


Creatures (23)

4 Mimic
4 Reshaper
2 Displacer
4 Thought-Knot
4 Smasher
4 Endbringer
1 Kozilek, Butcher


Lock pieces (8)

4 Chalice of The Void
4 Trinisphere


Removal (6)

4 Warping Wail
2 All is Dust


This makes Miracle, D&T, Shardless cry big time.
50/50 vs Elves & Storm.
Tempo was not tested (and should be around 45/55, maybe less, from what I saw)


This list has proven to be a very strong starting point. And I wouldn't be surprised at all if we see the birth of a new archetype in Legacy.
Eldrazis are just smashing faces...

Happy testing everyone.

Let's share further discoveries !

[Dice_Box]

Need White for the Displacers your running. 4 Cavern I feel doesn't cut it.

[Gheizen64]

I must say that i have greatly reconsidered bearer of silence and i've placed him back in the deck. It's true that 7 of our sol lands count as :1: when it comes to him, but even then, he's a quick evasive beater T2 that give us massive card advantage in the midgame against a lot of decks. Whereas Kozilek shrieker is prey to every single removal existing and does nothing way too often, bearer come down often earlier, is evasive, and midgame turn what would be dead draws into edicts with a body which are extremely good. I'm trying this list right now:


4 Eldrazi Temple
3 Eye of Ugin
4 Ancient Tomb
3 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Wasteland
4 Cavern of Souls
2 City of Traitors
1 Bojuka Bog

4 Chalice of the Void
3 Trinisphere
4 Warping Wail
2 All Is Dust
2 Ratchet Bomb
1 Spatial Contortion

2 Wasteland Strangler
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Matter Reshaper
4 Reality Smasher
4 Bearer of Silence
1 Blight Herder

Blight Herder is a flex spots that i'm testing again. Moved away from monolith because of how often i killed myself with it to activate ugin, so i'm trying a list without. From a preliminary testing i'll probably move away from the Herder and singleton bojuka and put an actual black land (prob koilos) and something else to take herder's place.

[Gheizen64]

At least someone is testing Mimic.

That card is bonker.

A starting hand containing "Eye of Ugin + 1 or 2 Mimic + a fatty (4/4; 5/5)" can make someone cry by T4.

All is dust is too good to be eschewed.


Here is a midrangy list that pretty rolls over a lot of T1 decks (as a starting point since the mana base has yet to be adjusted to deal with Blood Moon):
Wasteland is pretty unecessary as you will most likely lose velocity.

High velocity, high pressure are usually enough to grant a sheer "kill".


Lands (24)

4 Cavern of Souls
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Glimmer post
4 Cloud post
4 Eldrazi Temple
2 Eye of Ugin
2 Vesuva


Creatures (23)

4 Mimic
4 Reshaper
2 Displacer
4 Thought-Knot
4 Smasher
4 Endbringer
1 Kozilek, Butcher


Lock pieces (8)

4 Chalice of The Void
4 Trinisphere


Removal (6)

4 Warping Wail
2 All is Dust


This makes Miracle, D&T, Shardless cry big time.
50/50 vs Elves & Storm.
Tempo was not tested (and should be around 45/55, maybe less, from what I saw)


This list has proven to be a very strong starting point. And I wouldn't be surprised at all if we see the birth of a new archetype in Legacy.
Eldrazis are just smashing faces...

Happy testing everyone.

Let's share further discoveries !

I tried this list and it's really strong. Instead of Displacers, i run endless ones which are pretty hilarious if you have a mimic out and with all the mana the deck has compared to wasteland lists, he's better than in normal lists. I'd probably try running Ugin though or maybe just another top end eldrazi (your list is 61 cards so remove them and you miss just 1 card).

I really like this direction. I think it lose a bit of game against decks like turbo eldrazi, maybe land? On the other hand the MU vs BUG get so much better cause they have a much harder time keeping up.

@ Cire i don't think anyone would complain. With MODO not getting OGW for 3-4 months however and SGC not running any legacy events anymore, i doubt this deck will get much refinement tbh.

[chalice]

Here's what I would run in the pure stompy vein, designed for maximum speed and threat density.
4 caves of koilos
4 cavern of souls
4 eldrazi temple
4 ancient tomb
4 city of traitors
4 lotus petal
4 mox diamond
4 trinisphere
4 chalice of the void
4 reality smasher
4 thought-knot seer
4 eldrazi displacer
4 bearer of silence
4 kozilek's shrieker
4 endbringer
In my opinion, stompy needs 8 fast mana slots for its curve to work (look at dragon stompy for comparison. You want to be able to trinisphere turn 1). 16 colored sources ensures always being able to cast the black and white cards. I initially wanted wasteland, but in the end decided eldrazi temple's extra mana was more important to the deck. I initially had 2 jittes and 2 SoFI instead of 4 Endbringers, but this might be better. Even though the deck has no mainboard removal, bearer of silence, endbringer, and eldrazi displacer can still deal with creatures bigger than ours (emrakul, knight of the reliquary, marit lage, tarmogoyf).

[Cire]

@ Cire i don't think anyone would complain. With MODO not getting OGW for 3-4 months however and SGC not running any legacy events anymore, i doubt this deck will get much refinement tbh.

I don't know - in my version it's really about figuring out the mana-base - the correct number of Shrieker/Displacer/Strangler to run - if mimic/endless one is worth it instead - to mox diamond or not - and whether the 2 spots for thoughtseize are worth it.

That's a decent amount of tweaking - and that's only for the non-stompy version. The Stompy version, as evident by this thread, has a bunch of stuff left to theorycraft.

[Fatal]

Here's what I would run in the pure stompy vein, designed for maximum speed and threat density.
4 caves of koilos
4 cavern of souls
4 eldrazi temple
4 ancient tomb
4 city of traitors
4 lotus petal
4 mox diamond
4 trinisphere
4 chalice of the void
4 reality smasher
4 thought-knot seer
4 eldrazi displacer
4 bearer of silence
4 kozilek's shrieker
4 endbringer
In my opinion, stompy needs 8 fast mana slots for its curve to work (look at dragon stompy for comparison. You want to be able to trinisphere turn 1). 16 colored sources ensures always being able to cast the black and white cards. I initially wanted wasteland, but in the end decided eldrazi temple's extra mana was more important to the deck. I initially had 2 jittes and 2 SoFI instead of 4 Endbringers, but this might be better. Even though the deck has no mainboard removal, bearer of silence, endbringer, and eldrazi displacer can still deal with creatures bigger than ours (emrakul, knight of the reliquary, marit lage, tarmogoyf).

Replace Mox Diamond with Chrome Mox which can imprint Eldrazi's and gives C or color mana. Mox Diamond require 23+ lands to get to work.

[Cire]

Replace Mox Diamond with Chrome Mox which can imprint Eldrazi's and gives C or color mana. Mox Diamond require 23+ lands to get to work.

Wait. . . is this true?

Chrome Mox 0
Artifact,
Imprint — When Chrome Mox enters the battlefield, you may exile a nonartifact, nonland card from your hand.
{T}: Add one mana of any of the exiled card's colors to your mana pool.

Eldrazi have no color. . . so I don't think you can add any mana to your mana pool. I don't think C counts as a "color."

[Fatal]

Right so Chrome Mox don't get errata ? :/ maybe we wait for all rules and changes, I think it's counterintuitive that chrome mox can Imprint card and still doesn't give mana. As replacement you can always use Simian Spirit Guide and Elvish Spirit Guide which also work under Trinisphere for reasonable cost.

[Cire]

Right so Chrome Mox don't get errata ? :/ maybe we wait for all rules and changes, I think it's counterintuitive that chrome mox can Imprint card and still doesn't give mana. As replacement you can always use Simian Spirit Guide and Elvish Spirit Guide which also work under Trinisphere for reasonable cost.

I mean the ruling has existed for a while with ghostfire - why would it change?

[chalice]

while I agree with Fatal that mox diamond with 20 lands is definitely risky, I would say that more often than not, the risk is worth it. We can afford to have a lower land count because 3 of our lands produce 2. For people on the fence about mox diamond, I've done sample hands and I was pleasantly surprised.

[Cire]

while I agree with Fatal that mox diamond with 20 lands is definitely risky, I would say that more often than not, the risk is worth it. We can afford to have a lower land count because 3 of our lands produce 2. For people on the fence about mox diamond, I've done sample hands and I was pleasantly surprised.

In your list I would replace lotus petals with lands - but then again I am not testing stompy lists anymore, but then again what do I know :tongue:

[MD.Ghost]

This list has proven to be a very strong starting point. And I wouldn't be surprised at all if we see the birth of a new archetype in Legacy.
Eldrazis are just smashing faces...

Happy testing everyone.

Let's share further discoveries !

I like Ralfs list if the goal is to play a MUD-Style aka drop Prison Stuff to lock the field and ramp into nasty big (or in this case "medium") Eldrazi-Creatures. For me the problem is that you have some of the same issues like MUD: clunky Hands, vulnerable Manabase and no real "Color"Splash for good Sideboard Cards (Graveyard Hate, more Removal etc.) - MUD (or most Stompy Shells except Sylvan Plug) sometimes is very inconsistent which can lead to a lose in the long run.

Otherwise i like the list as a starting point if you want to smash faces in a MUD Style but without suffering too much against artifact hate.

---------

@my list: I got a first playtest (with proxies) last night vs ANT - it was a nice run for the Eldrazi, my opponent only won one game on the play with a first turn probe into win (sometimes luck is a bitch :tongue:) and another game with turn 1 and 2 discard my stuff and i wasn't able to find another hate piece for a couple of turns.

What worked well so far:

-high chance (4x Tombs, 2x City, 4x Mox = more than many other stompy shells have avaible!) to start the game with +2 Mana, which was great because it leads to situations with Chalice or Warping Wail in hand as a game opener; ANT can't combo off blindly against Ancient Tomb open, because Warping Wail lures around
-i got a situation with T1 Warping Wail countered a Discard Spell to protect Turn 2 Trinisphere (which can easily be also a topdecked Chalice or Thought-Knot Seer)
-Thought-Knot Seer is a bitch, one game i droped him Turn 2, he feels like a upgraded Clique for colorless stompy shells: the exile effect is great, 4/4 body is also decay immune and i got a situation with an active Eldrazi Displacer to disrupt the Combo try from my opponent on the stack (much easier and better than Clique+Karakas)
-Eldrazi Displacer is "only" a 3/3 dude, but he comes down fast enough and acts like a "Delver" or "Nimble" if you need a simple "clock" vs Combo.
-Lifegain was relevant one game, thanks to Batterskull and Jitte i recovered from Tomb-Damage and my lifetotal jumped to 33 against a final Combo Try with only Storm 15
-Warping Wail was not only great as a potential counter, i also EoT placed the Eldrazi Token one Game, attacked and ramped with at my 2nd Main into Thought-Knot Seer, the move finally allowed me to use my Wasteland against a dual for another angle of attack
-as additional Hate from Side i brought 2 Revoker, 3 Rest in Peace and 1 Sword of Feast and Famine, finally RiP and Revokers worked fine enough (see: another angle of attack), the real deal with access to RiP will be a much better BGx Matchup (which tends to be difficult for Stompy Shells)

[Ralf]

I like Ralfs list if the goal is to play a MUD-Style aka drop Prison Stuff to lock the field and ramp into nasty big (or in this case "medium") Eldrazi-Creatures. For me the problem is that you have some of the same issues like MUD: clunky Hands, vulnerable Manabase and no real "Color"Splash for good Sideboard Cards (Graveyard Hate, more Removal etc.) - MUD (or most Stompy Shells except Sylvan Plug) sometimes is very inconsistent which can lead to a lose in the long run.

Otherwise i like the list as a starting point if you want to smash faces in a MUD Style but without suffering too much against artifact hate.


Hello Ghost,

I don't think Eldrazi should be compared to MUD.
Why ?

The deck is not looking for dropping prison stuff as a "main" purpose. You trade some of the explosivity that MUD can have (which is also part of its clunkyness sometimes) for something far more "mana curved".

That's the beauty of this new eldrazi deck:

Wizard has given us a sheer aggro deck "X mana for X power" with

Mimic is 2/1 for 2
Reshaper is 3/2 for 3
Displacer (endless one might well be better) is 3/3 for 3 or a X/X for X mana
Thought-Knot is 4/4 for 4
Smasher is 5/5 for 5

The only exception here being "Endbringer" (5/5 for 6) which can be seen as your main finisher when the game gets stalled mostly because :
- It draws you card
- It gives you a mean to attack through other creatures
- It gives you reach (ping ability akin DRS, which as proven to be very relevant)

This is rather a true aggro deck than sort of a MUD deck. There is no "combo" finish, here, and we don't get to screw a hand by playing sub-optimal lands such as City of Traitors.

The 12(14) other spells are devoted to hamper other deck strategy by slowing them down enough to kill them "in due time".
Chalice and Trinisphere are not a goal. But unfortunately colorless decks have access to no other powerful colorless spells/permanents to replace them.
Warping Wail is the clear winner as it opens new horizons for aggro decks: we have now a tool to fight back combo/control decks without being forced to play "blue".

Eldrazi will or not be a new contender in Legacy.
But it is such an easy entry point for an aggro strategy to give a try to Warping Wail (and have immediate taste/feedback on it) because the whole mana base of the deck can cast it.

I'm definitely persuaded that aggro strategies (as a whole) will make a comeback. The most difficult part will be "how to successfully integrate Warping Wail in a non-blue-tricolor shell".

My two cents.

Ralf

[MGB]

I've just been testing with the new cards in the Stompy shell online and playing a 4/4 Vendilion Clique off two lands is as bonkers as has been expected. Warping Wail is really solid too, and I think this deck has some serious game with all the new cards and some oldies like Phyrexian Revoker and Chalice of the Void.

[monovfox]

what about RGC for our mana base? It allows us to splash for kessig wolf run WHICH ALSO PRODUCES COLORLESS. This will allow us (with our absolutely ridiculous amount of mana) to just literally throw things past our opponents (probably isn't shabby against miracles either). Remember, we don't need all of our lands to produce colorless, just some.

[Gheizen64]

what about RGC for our mana base? It allows us to splash for kessig wolf run WHICH ALSO PRODUCES COLORLESS. This will allow us (with our absolutely ridiculous amount of mana) to just literally throw things past our opponents (probably isn't shabby against miracles either). Remember, we don't need all of our lands to produce colorless, just some.

You don't actually have that much mana for not-eldrazi spells, like only tomb give multiples unless you run a post mana base that however can't support colors. On the other hand, RG has two colorless lands that also act as duals (groves and karplusan), and can run talismans. G eldrazis aren't that hot , but not that worse than B eldrazi either... there's a 3/3 flash for 2G that make tokens for each creature that died that is cute. Green has also some really good cards for this kind of deck, with Punishing fire/Grove Engine, life from the loam for wastelocks and possibly some recurring (there's a green eldrazi eldrazi that recur from the grave for 2C and exile a non-creature permanent ETB for 6G), and Sylvan Library for the best non-blue manipulation in the game. If you don't go chalice, there's Ancient Stirrings which is also super good.

[HdH_Cthulhu]

Imho with all the nice ETB effects and the virtual CA from our lands (its like 2 land drops) we could focus on value and midrange! So im against mox/spirt/petal.

If we really want to make a "better" stompy list we have to up consistency -> less mulls, less bad topdecs ect... If not we just play another stompy list that looses to itself. I mean it looks great so far - no dependency on equipments should help alot. Also better lands xD.

Well that said I still want the deck to be fast, I guess its a balance act...

[korstructure]

This article from Caleb Durward today. Not sure who "Mike Meier" is or if he's on the source - but I'd like to get his input.

http://www.channelfireball.com/articles/tying-the-knot-with-thought-knot-seer/

Also, I'm quite interested in a midrange/value list. Though Mox Diamond can still have a place in such a list.

[MGB]

Imho with all the nice ETB effects and the virtual CA from our lands (its like 2 land drops) we could focus on value and midrange! So im against mox/spirt/petal.

If we really want to make a "better" stompy list we have to up consistency -> less mulls, less bad topdecs ect... If not we just play another stompy list that looses to itself. I mean it looks great so far - no dependency on equipments should help alot. Also better lands xD.

Well that said I still want the deck to be fast, I guess its a balance act...

I'm of the mind that Mox Diamond should only be played in a deck with either Life from the Loam or Crucible of Worlds.

[gkraigher]

Any List with tons of Sol Lands and 4 Cavern of Souls should also be running 1 Nether Void main.