[DECK] Eldrazi Stompy

[Patrunkenphat7]

That looks like a solid manabase. I have been torn on number of Eye for non-Mox Diamond lists. It feels like you want 2.5 in the deck, and I'm having a hard time deciding between 2 and 3...

[Kronicler]

How has Endbringer performed in peoples' testing? I like the idea of having a high-ish end threat that we can reliably cast, but it seems absolutely glacial.

[Patrunkenphat7]

How has Endbringer performed in peoples' testing? I like the idea of having a high-ish end threat that we can reliably cast, but it seems absolutely glacial.

I think it's necessary to play 1-2 with what we have to work with right now, but I am not particularly happy about having to play a 6-mana Eldrazi in this deck. It's important to have enough strong triggers for Mimic as well as a nice maindeck "answer" to Goyfs and Gurmags.

[Delvis]

Someone in my testing group suggested Basilisk Collar as a potential equipment to help deal with how difficult Tarmogoyf is to manage... card is hilarious with Endbringer.

[Patrunkenphat7]

Someone in my testing group suggested Basilisk Collar as a potential equipment to help deal with how difficult Tarmogoyf is to manage... card is hilarious with Endbringer.

Interesting, although I am hesitant to try it with our 4 Chalice. I think Metamorph gumming up the board and/or 2 Jittes help with the Tarmo issue. As many people probably realize Tarmogoyf seems like one of the biggest problems for us against the fair decks, so it's definitely good to try to add something to help combat the issue.

[MD.Ghost]

To everyone using Brushland, I'd consider Horizon Canopy over it. I think it's well worth the fact that it doesn't tap for colorless.

I still feel that using Brushland (or similiar lands) are needed IF you play with Reshaper, because Eye+Brushland and you can cast this guy. Canopy can be ok with Crucible but i will not sac. my own lands in a build that can use the mana up to Ulamog & Friends. For "pay life" we already have Tomb and i would avoid more of this unless i want to cast Displacer/World Breaker.


I've been doing some testing with Mishra's Factory, and I think it's worth slots. It allows you to do something productive when you're short of mana due to Wasteland, and it helps push through the last few points of damage. I like them quite a lot.

I also tried Mind Stone, and I don't know if they are worthwhile. In the first two turns of the game, if you nothing better to spend your mana than Mind Stone, I think you probably should have mulliganed. After the first two turns of the game, it feels like a pretty low-impact play. As for counterplay against Wasteland and Blood Moon: I feel we are good enough versus the tempo Wasteland decks, so I'd really only want it to have an out to Blood Moon, and that might not be good enough. I think they are not clearly better than basic Wastes in that specific role. Another thing is that the red Stompy decks that can play t1/t2 Blood Moon are already bad matchups, and so it might just be worth conceding the matchup altogether.

Yep, i can see Mishra's Factory over Wasteland even in an Aggro Shell. It will help if your opponent killed the Field (he we already get a post with "Golgari Charm vs Mimics" which is so crazy :laugh:) and all the aggressive already City, so sacrifice more of our own lands can't be the right way unless you face situations like Clacial Chasm, Maze, Tabernacle etc. (see the bad lands matchup).

Mind Stone and similar should only be used in a ramp Shell - you are right, that it is not good in a build with aggressive builds with Mimic which want to close the game as fast as possible.


World Breaker is the Eldrazi with the highest upside to play, as he can save you from all kinds of bad situations and is also a fast clock for not too much mana. I like brewing around him and am no longer sure if the Titan is needed if you play multiple World Breakers you can tutor for. Cool list tough!

I think if we explore the "colored" Eldrazi - World Breaker is the real deal, 7 Mana is manageable if you have a build with ramp (i cast Ulamog today as a turn 3 play!). World Breaker itself do so many good stuff, he is a deadly Wall to Gofy, (most)Knights, Angler, Delver, Sigarda, DnT Flyers etc. and he will get rid of Moon, Humility, Bridge and all the annoying stuff including lands.


How has Endbringer performed in peoples' testing? I like the idea of having a high-ish end threat that we can reliably cast, but it seems absolutely glacial.

I played him at my earlier "Midrange Build" (Cloudpost, but no Artifact Ramp) and a pair of him were the "Top End" for this build which was ok. He won me Games vs Sneak&Show (he is really good here) and one Mirror (control Smasher from my opponent^^). BUT: Endbringer is very slow...so now with the ramp build i like Conduit of Ruin over him, because it feels like more raw power if you can follow up with World Breaker, Ulamog or even a Smasher for 3 etc.


This is completely untested and just theorycraft. That being said, Grove is probably one of the best lands for this kind of list, as it casts World Breaker and our colourless spells easily and gives us access to a powerful creature control mechanism. Kozilek's Return is also sweet out of the sideboard and I guess Grudge is potentially castable? :/ Nonetheless I like the look of this list.

I like all the brewing here (seems like Nic Fit^^), the Aggro Shell seemed more and more established (yes you can think about of "Thorn over Sphere" or "Lock Pieces vs Removal" but its colorless core seemed to be set in stone), but i think we get a lot of more unexplored builds if we try to add some colors (we already mentioned World Breaker, Eldrazi Displacer etc.).

So if you want to go RG for Punishing Fire you will get World Breaker (that is the big deal here) and Kozilek's Return. I tought about it and i feel that Punishing Fire is not needed if you can simply cast Kozilek's Return, which will also clean the field (5 Damage is very very good!) later if you follow up with World Breaker&Friends.

So yes "RG build" seems a good idea, if you build it well enough in a ramp shell. I see PFire only as additional removal at side, Kozilek's Return is simply better (also in alot of situations better than all is dust > instant and way cheaper!). This way can also lead to 1-2 Sylvan Libary (which can be nice with Reshaper too) if you can find space for all of the stuff. I feel that Kozilek's Return is better here than in modern, it will wreak most creature based strategies and can also be work against the "Aggro Eldrazi" List if you kill an early Mimic Wave and follow up with ramp into World Breaker and kill even a field of Smashers and Seer (the top end of most Aggro Builds). Kozilek's Return is also uncounterable later (and 5 Damage will also kill a normal gofy, angler etc.) because it happens "on cast".

If you like World Breaker, i would lean to 2 Conduit of Ruin and 3 World Breaker (and 1 Ulamog) as a base for mid till late game Eldrazi.

The biggest question is, how will look the mana base. The build will need more colored mana, so sadly i see no Cloudpost-Lands here, this will lead to "City is back", which means the core lands from the Aggro Shell and in the flex spots (Wasteland/Mishra etc.) you will need RG lands and Talisman of Impulse (Mind Stone Slot) OR Mox Diamond. Mox Diamond will work fine with multiple City/Eye lands, this leads to Crucible (the build will still ramp into higher threats) which is also nice vs Wastelands. This idea will also allow to use World Breakers ability to rise from the grave (Barook mentioned it already!).

The graveyard itself is a resource most legacy decks already use more or less, i think RG Eldrazi can also be profit from it a little bit (recurring Removal, Lands, Beater - seems nice in theory).

Maybe i will brew a little bit about a build - we will see if it can work (oh boy, so many options once you have also access colored mana with Eldrazi :cool:).

[Barook]

RG build looks kinda cool, but what does it bring to the table compared to the other builds that's an advantage? PF and K-Return seem interesting but do they really address our problems? Don't get me wrong, I like the build.

On a different note:
It's a shame we have to run CotV, othewise Relic of Progenitus could help combat Lands AND Goyf.

Actually, it occured to me while writing this down: How about SB Rest in Peace? It's unaffected by Chalice @1 and does its numbers on both Lands and Goyf, two of our major problems. I'm aware that it isn't at T0 solution like Leyline or Faerie, but once it hits the board, it's a nice catch-all solution.

Obviously the mana is going to be a major problem, so bear with me for a moment: The GW build currently runs 5 actual white sources (2 Brushland/3 Talisman), which is clearly not enough, especially since Talisman is slow. I'm not a fan of cutting into the Cavern count for additional Brushlands. One thing I could actually see working is replacing the Grim Monoliths (which are pretty much one-time use anyway) for Mox Diamond/Lotus Petal (which have the nice side effect of T1 RiP, or a higher chance for T1 Chalice). Still not enough white sources? Do the "Lejay thing" and jam some Karakas copies into the sideboard as additional white sources. Karakas helps against Lands, Reanimator (double synergy with RiP in both matches!) and S&T.

I think that's a route worth exploring, be it the ramp version or just "normal" midrange aggro.

[Redkid43]

Rest in Piece give us infinite fuel for Processing. Note that even if you still do the processing (card in exile entering GY), the card is still put into exile, allowing you do do it again. This also opens up Helm as a nice alt win as well.

[Barook]

Helm seems way too greedy. The Legacy version also moved away from Processing.

Numbers are subject to change:

4 Ancient Tomb
3 Brushland
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Cloudpost
4 Eldrazi Temple
2 Eye of Ugin
4 Glimmerpost

// Creatures
2 Conduit of Ruin
2 Eldrazi Displacer
2 Endless One
2 Matter Reshaper
4 Reality Smasher
4 Thought-Knot Seer
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
2 World Breaker

// Spells
2 All Is Dust
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Mox Diamond
3 Talisman of Unity
1 Trinisphere
3 Warping Wail

SB: 2 Ratchet Bomb
SB: 3 Thorn of Amethyst
SB: 1 All Is Dust
SB: 1 Phyrexian Revoker
SB: 1 Spatial Contortion/Warping Wail
SB: 3 Karakas
SB: 4 Rest in Peace

[Gheizen64]

Karakas is main playable imho, just cut into wastelands and go for full toolbox list.

EDIT: ah you play post list. Well, that's a bit harder but still doable i guess.

[gkraigher]

The Legacy version also moved away from Processing.



In my opinion this is incredibly wrong, short sided, and blind to the format of legacy. The modern version moved away from processing because 1) it's not easy to get online and 2) there are only a few graveyard strategies in modern.

In legacy, relic of progenitus is bonkers if it's a main deck engine as well. None of these lists in this forum can beat lands. It's basically an auto lose. I could say similar things about reanomator. These decks are really weak to graveyard strategies, so why not play main deck relic.

Then, once you have main deck relic, you play wasteland strangler. The card obliterates bug delver, and is great vs all the delver decks. Cards get force of willed, lands get exiled with deathrite shaman. I think it's crazy not to play wasteland strangler in legacy unless you go all in on the Agro strategy-which I find naturally week in the field.

[Barook]

In my opinion this is incredibly wrong, short sided, and blind to the format of legacy.
Yet on the last page I lamented that Relic would be really good in the deck, except it clashes massively with Chalice of the Void. And Chalice is overall simply the better card in Legacy.

Maybe RiP + Karakas can get around some of the deck's weaknesses. Who knows.

[Fry]

Here's a preliminary list a couple friends and I developed last week without looking at this thread to see how we would build it without suggestions from outside our group so that we wouldn't be influenced by others and overlook some potential choice due to others saying they are bad before we did any testing with our list.
This is a more tuned list that the one my friend made top 16 at the Mythic Legacy event this past weekend that had over 50 players where we made the list pretty much the day before/drive out there, so we weren't running the Temples, but had Ports instead, along with other suboptimal choices. With that said and without further ado, here's our list (I already know it's 61 cards).


4 Chalice of the Void
2 Crucible of Worlds
4 Eldrazi Mimic
2 Endbringer
4 Grim Monolith
4 Matter Reshaper
4 Reality Smasher
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Trinisphere
2 Umezawa's Jitte
3 Warping Wail

4 Ancient Tomb
4 Cavern of Souls
4 City of Traitors
4 Eldrazi Temple
2 Eye of Ugin
2 Sea Gate Wreckage
4 Wasteland

Board:
2 All Is Dust
3 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Null Rod
2 Ratchet Bomb
3 Sundering Titan
3 Thorn of Amethyst

[ChemicalBurns]

So far I'm really happy with how aggressive Eldrazi Stompy is progressing, the only testing I need to worry about is Wasteland vs. Factory in the main at this point (and in my opinion, it's still in Wasteland's favour). I've also continued to tinker with RG. The initial list had too few RG sources between the eight "tri-lands", so casting SB cards was difficult, as was casting World Breaker, occasionally (though Cavern helps with that). That being said, World Breaker is friggin insane. He is the reason to be going into any colours in my opinion, as he is by far the best "big" Eldrazi after Reality Smasher - much better than Endbringer, in my opinion, who I've been pretty unimpressed with.

As such, I cut the Monoliths and added...ugh... Talismans. This puts our RG count quite high enough to reliably cast our removal and cards out of the sideboard, at the cost of having less explosive draws - we can't even turn one Trinisphere anymore. Maybe Mox Diamond could remedy this by giving us a coloured source that still casts Trinisphere on turn one, but I already have reservations against Diamond, unless we run a Crucible package. Also I love the incorporation of Sylvan Library as a consistency tool as suggested! The life loss may get a bit much between Tombs and Forests, but Sylvan Plug has had success with Sylvan Library and Tomb, so it's probably fine.

Anyway, current RG list is this:

Creatures: (19)
4 Endless One
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
4 World Breaker
2 Conduit of Ruin
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger

Non-Creature Spells: (16)
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Trinisphere
4 Talisman of Impulse
4 Punishing Fire
1 Sylvan Library

Lands: (25)
4 Grove of the Burnwillows
4 Karplusan Forest
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Eldrazi Temple
3 Eye of Ugin
2 City of Traitors

Sideboard: (15)
3 Kozilek's Return
3 Warping Wail
2 Dismember
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Tormod's Crypt
1 Sylvan Library
1 All Is Dust
1 Pithing Needle

As you were asking Barook, what are the perceived strengths of RG over other midrange builds... Well, theoretically they would be:
- It is able to beat small creature decks (Elves, D&T, Grixis Delver) much more easily thanks to PFire and Return from the sideboard. Probably the most important reason to go RG.
- It goes over the smaller Eldrazi builds (who knows if this is a real issue in Legacy) thanks to again, solid removal for Mimics and World Breaker who blocks everything in the mirror and, most importantly, shuts down Eye/other Sol Lands.
The cons are:
- As you've said, our sideboard options are pretty limited still. Grudge/other Naturalize effects can be strong (eg. Krosan Grip), and RG does have great sweeper options.
- Deck still gets crippled by Wasteland, even moreso than other builds due to occasional reliance on Grove.

I think the GW list does have a lot of merit too, as white sideboard cards in Legacy are, of course, amazing. My tentative build (again, untested) for such a list would be:

Creatures: (20)
4 Eldrazi Displacer
4 Endless One
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
4 World Breaker

Non-Creature Spells: (15)
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Talisman of Unity
3 Trinisphere
2 Oblivion Ring
2 Warping Wail

Lands: (25)
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Eldrazi Temple
3 Eye of Ugin
2 City of Traitors
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Brushland
3 Horizon Canopy
1 Karakas

Sideboard: (15)
3 Rest in Peace
3 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Sylvan Library
2 Warping Wail
1 All Is Dust
1 Karakas

The big benefit here looks like Rest in Peace, which means we don't auto-lose to Dredge etc. like the other lists. We also have the option of running hatebears too, though I'm sure our combo matchups are already fine and Canonist could just be unnecessary. I'm sure there's other white sideboard cards I'm forgetting (eg. even just straight Disenchant could be better than the Revokers). I'm also unsure whether Eldrazi Displacer will pull his weight, but this deck often feels like it needs mana sinks and having Displacer filling both creature or removal slots, in a way, is quite nice. He could just be trimmed down and the Conduit/Ulamog package reincorporated.

[Barook]

I forgot to mention O-Ring effects as potential benefit of a white-heavy splash. Thanks for bringing it up. Although Banishing Light should be better here since we can't abuse trigger stacking.

Aside from RiP, Karakas and O-Ring effects, white also offers Ethersworn Canonist (which is probably better than Thorn; bonus points for a Plainless manabase; GG, Massacre! :laugh:) and Containment Priest.

Priest in particular is interesting - it hates on Reanimator, S&T, Elves and some other shenanigans. While that in itself isn't outstanding, it enables the creature nuke combo with Displacer. Might be too cute, especially since Displacer has been mediocre so far, but who knows - might be cool with sufficient numbers of both cards in the 75.

As for Sylvan Plug: Yes, they run Library and Tombs, but also shittons of life gain to not kill themselves. 4x Tomb + 3x Canopy without lifegain is just asking for trouble.

Edit: On a slightly different note: Baleful Strix is not something we want to face. It hurts.

[MD.Ghost]

RG build looks kinda cool, but what does it bring to the table compared to the other builds that's an advantage? PF and K-Return seem interesting but do they really address our problems? Don't get me wrong, I like the build.

As ChemicalBurns mentioned, it is much safer vs Creature Stuff, especially if All is Dust ist often to slow (Elves) are useless ("Aggro Eldrazi", i am sure we will see it more often the next time). And as i mentioned, K-Return will be combo very well with World Breaker. The benefit will be "exploring" our own Graveyard, which also means that it is harder for your opponent to bring hate cards (Anti GY-Stuff vs Eldrazi, really?:tongue:)

But i clearly see K-Return over PFire here, because i like the "Sweep more Dudes" over "Snipe one and IF i have Grove i can do it again next turn". What is nice about Grove, most opponents will have a hard time to chose the right Wasteland Target^^

I would test the following very experimental RG brew:

More or less Core-Lands: 4 Temple, 4 Tomb, 4 Cavern, 3 Eye, 3 City
RG-Lands for a deeper Splash: 4 Grove, 2 Karplusan Forest, 1 Forest (or one more Karplusan)

Creature-Core: 4 Smasher, 4 Seer, 1 Ulamog, 4 Endless One (or Reshaper, but this deck want also an early Creature)
Big Ones: 2 Conduit of Ruin, 3 World Breaker, 1 Ulamog (i would avoid the World Breaker playset, because Conduit is also good and sometimes it will matter if you have 6 or 7 mana avaible etc.)

Rest: 4 Chalice, 4 Mox Diamond (or Talisman), 1 Crucible (works good with Eye, City, Mox), 1 Library, 3 K-Return, 1 Trinisphere, 3 Warping Wail

The real choice here is Mox or not, it is not clear: Mox will help with a "Cloudless" Manabase, as it stabilize you well with multiple City/Eye draws and it is more explosive, but it will also need some lands (which is hard if the land reads: 2 Mana for Eldrazi or 1 Mana with Mox), later it is more or less a dead draw. Talisman itself isnt explosive but will be much better vs Moon (it can also be used for colorless mana).


Karakas is main playable imho, just cut into wastelands and go for full toolbox list.

EDIT: ah you play post list. Well, that's a bit harder but still doable i guess.

I think, if we explore a deeper Splash it will not work with Cloudpost&Co. The Post-List will be ok if you only have 2-3 Eldrazi targets (Cavern also helps a lot) but will struggle with any colored Sideboard Stuff.


In legacy, relic of progenitus is bonkers if it's a main deck engine as well. None of these lists in this forum can beat lands. It's basically an auto lose. I could say similar things about reanomator. These decks are really weak to graveyard strategies, so why not play main deck relic.

Relic is nice, but Chalice simply is better unless you get a good build with other protection (Cabal Therapy+Reshaper, Ancient Strings as a "Cantrip" etc.), legacy contains so many decks, not all will fear a relic at main.


Aside from RiP, Karakas and O-Ring effects, white also offers Ethersworn Canonist (which is probably better than Thorn; bonus points for a Plainless manabase; GG, Massacre! :laugh:) and Containment Priest.

Priest in particular is interesting - it hates on Reanimator, S&T, Elves and some other shenanigans. While that in itself isn't outstanding, it enables the creature nuke combo with Displacer. Might be too cute, especially since Displacer has been mediocre so far, but who knows - might be cool with sufficient numbers of both cards in the 75.

Edit: On a slightly different note: Baleful Strix is not something we want to face. It hurts.

Canonist is not better at all, because combo will still bring Decay&Stuff (Hurkyl's Recall^^ etc.) for Chalice, so taxing the removal seems better, against Elves Canonist is an Artifact that will also die to Rec.Sage. Thorn is also very usefull vs Burn (and you can also use it vs Show&Tell, Reanimate because it will slow them down). I would go with 2x Thorn and 1x Thalia (with 2 Karakas for Protection^^).

Containment Priest is also nice, i used 2 in my white build and it worked really well with Displacer /the real king vs SneakShow and Reanimate!) as a Combo (MUD, Mirror etc.).

Strix: Really? Warping Wail (All is Dust) the bird or simply run over it with Smasher etc. At my games i never had a problem with Strix, sure it is annoying but nothing more.

If you would ask me for a deeper GW Splash, i think it should work very similiar to the RG-List above (no Cloudposts). 3 Displacer and 3 Endless One would be in my first sketch and i would squeeze in 2 Library Main (the upside is not only to use "Life" for more Draw, but rather control what you will get). I also like 1 Karakas main (2nd Side), but in case of Sneak&Show i think they will try to get Blood Moon online vs Eldrazi, so it will only work G1 (and is good vs Reanimate, a little bit harder for lands etc.).

The question is Mox or Talisman (see above)...

-----------

RG vs GW:

RG will be superior vs most creature based decks (K-Return+World Breaker+PFire)
GW will be superior vs most unfair stuff (GY-Decks, Sneak&Show, Lands)

[bruizar]

The real choice here is Mox or not, it is not clear: Mox will help with a "Cloudless" Manabase, as it stabilize you well with multiple City/Eye draws and it is more explosive, but it will also need some lands (which is hard if the land reads: 2 Mana for Eldrazi or 1 Mana with Mox), later it is more or less a dead draw. Talisman itself isnt explosive but will be much better vs Moon (it can also be used for colorless mana).


I think Mox Diamond is best in places where you have a lot of 3 drops with colored mana symbols and 4 Eye of Ugins and a lot of City of Traitors. 2R, 2U, 2W drops (Eldrazi Skyspawner, Ruinator Guide, Eldrazi Obligator, Vile Aggregate, Eldrazi Displacer, etc).

[Barook]

The real choice here is Mox or not, it is not clear: Mox will help with a "Cloudless" Manabase, as it stabilize you well with multiple City/Eye draws and it is more explosive, but it will also need some lands (which is hard if the land reads: 2 Mana for Eldrazi or 1 Mana with Mox), later it is more or less a dead draw. Talisman itself isnt explosive but will be much better vs Moon (it can also be used for colorless mana).

I think, if we explore a deeper Splash it will not work with Cloudpost&Co. The Post-List will be ok if you only have 2-3 Eldrazi targets (Cavern also helps a lot) but will struggle with any colored Sideboard Stuff.

Canonist is not better at all, because combo will still bring Decay&Stuff (Hurkyl's Recall^^ etc.) for Chalice, so taxing the removal seems better, against Elves Canonist is an Artifact that will also die to Rec.Sage. Thorn is also very usefull vs Burn (and you can also use it vs Show&Tell, Reanimate because it will slow them down). I would go with 2x Thorn and 1x Thalia (with 2 Karakas for Protection^^).
Cloudpost hasn't been very impressive for me so far. Without Vesuva or any land tutors, it will rarely net you extra mana due to the way the deck is set up. The only reasons I haven't dropped it yet are a) the life gain from Glimmerpost (I do think we need some life gain somewhere) and b) not having found a better alternative yet (I hate City, too be honest).

As for Canonist, it's still better than Thorn vs. Elves since they can mostly ignore Thorn.

[bruizar]

Just stating Essence Depleter and Ruin Processor are alternatives to life gain from Glimmerpost

[Barook]

Just stating Essence Depleter and Ruin Processor are alternatives to life gain from Glimmerpost
Depleter seems very cool since it gives us a way to handle excess mana and win through a stalled board. The initial black requirement is problematic, though, and requires to go back to the black splash. Ironically, it would play best with Post mana (if you can achieve it).

Ruin Processor is too expensive at :7: and processing as additional requirement just kills it. I would rather just run Jitte instead.

[bruizar]

Depleter seems very cool since it gives us a way to handle excess mana and win through a stalled board. The initial black requirement is problematic, though, and requires to go back to the black splash. Ironically, it would play best with Post mana (if you can achieve it).

Ruin Processor is too expensive at :7: and processing as additional requirement just kills it. I would rather just run Jitte instead.

I agree on Ruin Processor. At 7 mana, you are probably tapping Ancient Tombs for it. So the 5 life is probably only 3 or 1 life in practice.

The black mana encourages Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth which also helps reduce the damage taken from Ancient Tombs. So, a black splash is probably easiest on your life totals if you aren't using the post-manabase. Besides Jitte, there is Batterskull, and more fringe equipment such as Sword of War and Peace and Sword of Light and Shadow which can gain life. Sword of Light and Shadow is notable tech because it gives protection from Germ tokens and Stoneforge Mystic. In modern, Blue moon plays Batterskulls and the Eldrazi deck cannot really beat a resolved Batterskull.

Here is the replay of Eldrazi vs Blue Moon
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=awannXC4-eQ

[ChemicalBurns]

Ok, so finally got to take the aggro Eldrazi Stompy list to our weekly; went 3-1, losing in the finals. List was:

Creatures: (24)
4 Endless One
4 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Eldrazi Mimic
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
4 Simian Spirit Guide

Non-Creature Spells: (12)
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Thorn of Amethyst
2 Warping Wail
2 Dismember

Lands: (24)
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Eldrazi Temple
3 Eye of Ugin
4 Wasteland
3 Cavern of Souls
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth

Sideboard: (15)
3 Tormod's Crypt
2 Endbringer
2 Pithing Needle
2 Ratchet Bomb
2 Spellskite
2 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Warping Wail

No changes from the last aggro list I posted.

Round 1: Adam (D&T)
In actuality, the guy rocked up with his Standard deck and got crushed. After our games I offered him up D&T to borrow for the day and he really enjoyed it. I tested one game and had Chalice on 1 while my opponent drew Plows and Vials. Only relevant creature opponent drew was Revoker, which got smashed over. Mana denial still really hampered us tho (he had double Wasteland), but luckily he drew no real beatstick, we smashed.

Round 2: Hamish (Grixis Control)
Game 1:
I think Chalice got forced, but Thorn resolved. Revoker and Endless One beats began as he Thoughtseized away a Smasher. He cast a Pyromancer that got Wailed and then Thought-Knot backed up by Wasteland stifled him too much to continue.

-2 Dismember
+ 2 Endbringer

I might of trimmed something to bring in two Wails and two Bombs for Pyromancer, but I'm not sure.

Game 2:
Grizzly Bear Endless One came out after a Chalice got forced, I think. Opponent resolved a t3 Blood Moon... But I drew Mimic and then Grizzly Bear and Goblin Piker beats got the job done as my opponent drew bricks?! Sweet. In actuality, Blood Moon could've completely wrecked my face... Not sure if we should bother with some kind of answer to it (though I guess Bomb counts, in a way). Or just hope we're Smashing before it comes down.

Round 3: Steven (Goblins)
Game 1:
Steve mulled to five and double Thought-Knot shredded away all his relevant Goblins (Ringleader etc.). I took a billion damage to keep Dismembering a Warchief in response to a lethal Gempalm on my Seer. This pays off, as I draw another Seer and the 4/4s bring it home.

-4 Thorn
-4 Chalice
+2 Wail
+2 Needle
+2 Ratchet Bomb
+2 Spellskite

Game 2:
Steve happily goes Mountain Vial... And I have Needle. He needs to use his mana to deploy Gobs. Matron's target of Krenko gets Thought-Knotted. I get Wasted a little but my hand is mana-heavy, and I have my own Waste for his Port. A Thought-Knot gets Pyrokinesised eventually, but Steve doesn't draw much significant. Eventually I get smashing and the little Goblins cannot chump block to live.

Match 4: Jeremy (Miracles)
Game 1:
The deck finally poops on me. I mulligan to five after neither hands have Sol Lands nor disruption. My five is good though - T1 Thorn (gets Forced) plus Revoker which is strong vs. Miracles. Revoker and Endless One beats continue as I pace my threats, though my hand is cluttered with 2 Seers and a Smasher I cannot cast (the mulligan was rough, all I needed was a land!). My opponent stabilises at two but then Mentor + two Tops (even when cast expensively with a Thorn that's on play) get the game for him.

-2 Dismember
+2 Warping Wail

Game 2:
Same deal - Revoker and Endless One beats backed up by a Thorn. I again pace my threats... My opponent forgets to Miracle his naturally drawn Terminus and then idiots win the game.

-4 Eldrazi Mimic
+2 Pithing Needle
+2 Ratchet Bomb

I expected the game to go longer on the draw, and the Mimic topdecks are not where I want to be... Though maybe we just need to keep more threats against Miracles? I'm not sure.

Game 3:
Chalice on 1 gets Forced, Thorn resolves and then another Chalice comes down from me. I'm not able to apply enough pressure because all I have is a Revoker on Top and on Jace, while again Seers and Smashers sit in my hand. My opponent eventually resolves a Counterbalance, I give zero shits... Until he has Mentor in play and I have to resolve a Ratchet Bomb to push through - Thorn also screwed me over becuase I continually needed to tap Wasteland, Temple and Tomb to cast things... Which does a number on my life total. Of course, my opponent blind flips the Snapcaster he needs to counter the Bomb, Ancient Tomb has brough me down to a super low life total and Mentor is enough to kill me.

So ended up 3-1 (though first round doesn't really count, I guess). Miracles felt easy when I've played it before, but alas, the deck is pretty high-variance at times and the clunky draws are real. Their man-plan is also quite an issue if you don't pressure them fast enough - though I still don't think we want Dismembers in the main for Mentor (despite how much a pain in the ass he is). That being said, I was still happy with the list, I think the only sideboard slot I want to worry about is the Endbringer, it's been pretty lacklustre so far. I actually love the techonology of Sea Gate Wreckage (as someone mentioned before) to gas up in this matchup; unlike Endbringer this is uncounterable, and most MUs where we bring Wreckage we need not fear Wasteland. Might try this next time.

Any thoughts on how I sideboarded or anything? Also... Some answers to Mentors and co.?

[iostream]

snip
Pithing Needle is probably not good enough versus Miracles in my opinion. There are many draws where you get wrecked by things besides Top. I'd rather have the extra Endbringers to maintain threat density so that you can pace your threats effectively. It also shoots down Mentor tokens, albeit slowly.

How was Simian Spirit Guide for you? Did you feel like you needed the extra velocity? In my testing, at least, it seemed like I didn't really need it, and would prefer to have some higher impact cards in those slots to make the deck a little more resilient to disruption.

As for Blood Moon, there's always Mind Stone, but that card is so durdly and feels wrong to be playing in an aggro shell. More proactive answers are extremely expensive and/or unreliable: All is Dust, Oblivion Stone, Spine of Ish Sah, Coercive Portal, Ulamog, etc. And finally, last and definitely least, there's basic Wastes, and if red Stompy decks and Painter variants are so omnipresent in your meta that we're talking about basic Wastes, I'd probably play a different deck.

[hofzge]

4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Eldrazi Temple
3 Eye of Ugin
4 Wasteland
3 Cavern of Souls
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth

So ended up 3-1 (though first round doesn't really count, I guess). Miracles felt easy when I've played it before, but alas, the deck is pretty high-variance at times and the clunky draws are real. Their man-plan is also quite an issue if you don't pressure them fast enough - though I still don't think we want Dismembers in the main for Mentor (despite how much a pain in the ass he is). That being said, I was still happy with the list, I think the only sideboard slot I want to worry about is the Endbringer, it's been pretty lacklustre so far. I actually love the techonology of Sea Gate Wreckage (as someone mentioned before) to gas up in this matchup; unlike Endbringer this is uncounterable, and most MUs where we bring Wreckage we need not fear Wasteland. Might try this next time.

Sea Gate Wreckage would not have worked as you can only draw if your hand is empty - I would much rather play Mishra's Factory/Factories to have some action if you get Terminused. Factory is almost never dead and great against all kinds of control decks.

How about adjusting your list to 2-3 Thorns and the manabase to:
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Eldrazi Temple
2 Eye of Ugin
4 Wasteland
3 Cavern of Souls
3 Mishra's Factory

[Barook]

Imho any less than 4 Caverns is just plain wrong in the Legacy metagame. It lets you disregard your opponent and happily play your stuff. It's one of the main strenghts of the deck that gives blue decks alot of trouble.

[bruizar]

Imho any less than 4 Caverns is just plain wrong in the Legacy metagame. It lets you disregard your opponent and happily play your stuff. It's one of the main strenghts of the deck that gives blue decks alot of trouble.

Agreed. Fixes mana and nullifies the stack

[gkraigher]

You are an agro creature deck, with some high CC cards (4 and 5). I would play Mishra's Factory over Wasteland all day in a deck like that.

I also agree that it is WRONG to not have 4 Caverns in your 75. They don't have to all be main deck, but they all have to be there.

[Barook]

I was thinking about whether or not Descendants' Path + Sylvan Library + Conduit + Mutavault could be made relevant in a green-heavy list, but I don't think it's worth the trouble.

Food for thought: But why not go a different route? A B/W Helm Combo/Eldrazi hybrid:

Sol manabase, Cavern of Koilos, Cavern of Souls, Urborg, Mox Diamond, and the other usual suspects as mana base.

4x Leyline, a few copies of RiP for consistency, multiple copies of Helm

Displacer, Wasteland Strangler (repeated creature kill with the Displacer + Strangler if an exile effect is in place), TKS, Smasher

Fill the rest of the slots with disruption and/or other Eldrazi.

Something like this (just rough numbers):

Mana: 28
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Eldrazi Temple
2 Eye of Ugin
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Karakas
4 Caves of Koilos
3 Mox Diamond

Eldrazi: 16
4 Eldrazi Displacer
4 Wasteland Strangler
4 Reality Smasher
4 Thought-Knot Seer

Disruption: 7
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Trinisphere

Combo: 9
4 Leyline of the Void
2 Rest in Peace
3 Helm of Obedience


Edit: Included a rough sideboard:
1 Banishing Light
1 Rest in Peace
1 Helm of Obedience
2 Karakas
3 Warping Wail
2 Conduit of Ruin
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
2 Containment Priest
2 Ratchet Bomb

I call the deck "Eldrazi with Hats on". :laugh:

[T-101]

Imho any less than 4 Caverns is just plain wrong in the Legacy metagame. It lets you disregard your opponent and happily play your stuff. It's one of the main strenghts of the deck that gives blue decks alot of trouble.

Certainly. I'm still trying to gather experience with the various builds of the deck, but one thing that I am sure of is that Cavern is very good, and I probably won't go below 4. Some folks are shaving Eye to 2 or 3, and the same with City. But Temple, Tomb, and Cavern of Souls are definitely 4s in all my builds.

Force is everywhere, and Daze is also pretty common. There's also Counterspell and Counterbalance to consider. I'm still on colorless, so I'm not getting "full value" out of Cavern, but I'm always happy to draw 1 or 2.

[Barook]

After some playtesting, "Eldrazi with Hats on" is just too much of a pile to be any good. :rolleyes:

Back to the way better G/W build.

@MD.Ghost: How would you build the GW manabase without post? As I said, I'm unimpressed the Cloudpost manabase and a third Eye would be nice.

[MD.Ghost]

Play 4 Cavern! - Card is nuts (note: you can also use it for Revoker if you have more than u need etc.).

-----------------------
I playtest my Ramp.dec (with the little GW-Splash, 2 Brushlands, 1+1 Displacer, 2 World Breaker) the day and i got a nice result so far (9:3):

9 victories (3x Miracle, 1x Mirror, 1x Shardless, 1x MUD, 1x DnT, 1x Storm, 1x Omnishow)
3 defeats (1x Miracle, 1x Elves, 1x MUD)

Some notes:

Miracle (lost the one 1:2) can only win with Moon+Mentor and some of the common support (Terminus, Swords etc.) and i think we see more +2 Moon in most Miracle-Sides after Eldrazi full arrived at Legacy. Good news here: Lands will also be not happy to see that as a common tech, because lands profit most of the time from the fact that no one have good hate vs this matchup.

MUD it was 2:0 and 0:2 pretty much luck based, i faced one Worker T2 with Greaves and 2 Wurmcoil before i have done anything...another game i had Wail for Worker, Displacer for a Blightsteel Boy and won the "Mana race" (we both had Cloudpost^^) with Conduit into Worldbreaker and Conduit into Ulamog.

Elves i lost also 1:2, i knew the deck well enough and Chalice/Sphere will not be GG until you also have Wail for NO (or snipe the single Rec.Sage until he kills your prison stuff with the help of insect).

BUG Shardless (my friend sawatarix piloted it) was very easy. Won the last one with Displacer(!) tapping his dude and attack for the win. All is Dust can also be pretty good if you face Jace, Library and all the colored dudes on the field.

Mirror vs Eldrazi was also very tricky because my opponent had a colorless build with Waste, Oblivion Sower (oh boy was that good vs my Cloudposts.dec^^) and Sword of Fire and Ice. The last game i faced a Smasher with Batterskull (!) i only won this with a timely World Breaker and follow up with a bigger Game Plan (Ulamog).

-----------------
You can see all the matchups at my signature link (with german notes), build 3 is the Ramp.dec with minor GW Splash.

-----------------
EDIT: Barook - deeper GW build:

4 Tomb, 4 Temple, 4 Cavern, 3 City, 3 Eye, 4 Brushland, 2 Canopy, 1 Karakas and 4 Mox or 4 Talisman would be my first sketch.

[Delvis]

Food for thought: But why not go a different route? A B/W Helm Combo/Eldrazi hybrid:

Wait, what? Why? Because we'd be playing Rest in Peace already? Playing an otherwise useless card like Helm is a bad plan unless it shores up matchups that we struggle with while simultaneously not hurting the already-strong ones too much. RiP-Helm does nothing for the Eldrazi plan, and the Eldrazi plan does nothing for RiP-Helm.

I agree with you on Cavern, though. I see no reason to cut those. Everyone's mana base should probably start with 4 Temple, 4 Tomb, 4 City, 4 Cavern, 2-3 Eye, and fill in slots from there. Shaving Tombs or Cities is potentially viable with specific reasoning, but in general this is where I believe the mana should start.

[badmojo]

I've been building this deck as well.

4 Eldrazi Mimic
3 Endless One
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
3 Endbringer
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger

3 Warping Wail
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Trinisphere
1 Jitte
2 Grim Monolith
1 All is Dust
2 Ratchet Bomb

4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
3 Eye of Ugin
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Wasteland
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Eldrazi Temple

SB:
2 Grafdigger's Cage
4 Thorn of Amethyst
1 All is Dust
1 Tsabo's Web
1 Powder Keg
3 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Trinisphere
1 Crucible of Worlds

Before, I played an older colorless version with 23 lands and found myself constantly stuck. Playing 25 lands feels much better. It's got a strange, standard vibe where you want to be hitting your land drops because the spells get much better with mana and inevitability with Eye of Ugin. Also, Urborg fixes so many problems, especially when you have the Ancient Tomb/Ancient Tomb scenario and need to stop killing yourself for mana.

I went 3-0 on Tuesday night.
R1: RUG delver. G1 - sat on two lands and died. G2 - T1 Ancient Tomb Jitte. T2 - EOT warping wail for a spawn and equipped Jitte. Jitte and Smasher close that out. G3 - he mulled to 5 and couldn't handle T1 Mimic, T2 Cavern into Endless for 3, T3 TKS.

R2: D&T. Not even close as Chalice for 1 shut off StP, followed up by Endbringer and Warping Wail taking out his x/1s and Ratchet Bomb swept up his 2CC cards.

R3: Miracles. Not an Entreat build and he got annihilated. Ratchet for 1 followed by Chalice for 1 to get rid of Tops and Swords. He couldn't handle Endbringers. Theoretically, Miracles has a rough time given the Caverns, Warping Wails (hits Terminus and Clique), and inevitable Eye of Ugin. It ends up being Blood Moon or bust.

Afterwards, we were discussing what the bad matchups were. Imperial Painter is #1 due to T1 moons and Ensnaring Bridge. Lands is #2 given that there is no interaction with Marit Lage except for Endbringer. Chalice for 1 stops Crop Rotation but he can still crush. MUD is a toss-up since Wurmcoil is a problem but I have Endbringers which can hold them off. I've been looking into Icy Manipulator or even Amber Prison in the SB just to deal with those problems.

[Barook]

Just played 2 matches vs. Dredge. CotV @1 and Rest in Peace are pretty much the best cards against them. I like the white splash, although sample size is not enough to determine how reliable it is to cast RIP. Had 2x T1 RIP, so there's that. If RIP becomes a SB staple, expect them going after it with Therapy, though.

@MD.Ghost: I cut 1 Brushland for the 3rd Eye and see how it goes. Current manabase looks like this:

4 Ancient Tomb
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
4 Eldrazi Temple
3 Eye of Ugin
2 Brushland

3 Mox Diamond
3 Talisman of Unity

I boarded out 3 Cloudpost (too slow) and brought in 3 Karakas to ensure enough white mana.

[ChemicalBurns]

You are an agro creature deck, with some high CC cards (4 and 5). I would play Mishra's Factory over Wasteland all day in a deck like that.

I also agree that it is WRONG to not have 4 Caverns in your 75. They don't have to all be main deck, but they all have to be there.


Imho any less than 4 Caverns is just plain wrong in the Legacy metagame. It lets you disregard your opponent and happily play your stuff. It's one of the main strenghts of the deck that gives blue decks alot of trouble.

Ok, so maybe my mana base does need reworking. I do think if I had Factory I definitely could've beat Miracles yesterday (I drew a few Wastelands which did nothing, my opponent ended the first game on two), not to mention more Caverns would've allowed my Forced TKS to get through. I think the first cut from my list will be the Urborgs. I've never been too impressed with them and the full Ugin's Workshop doesn't come up enough between 2 Urborgs and 3 Eyes. It also can randomly fix your opponent's mana too!

So cutting those, that can now give me:

Lands: (24)
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Eldrazi Temple
3 Eye of Ugin
3 Cavern of Souls
4 Mishra's Factory
2 Wasteland

I do still think Wasteland has merit. Blowing up Ports (and occasionally Wastelands) has been especially valuable to me so far, as this lets you go about your casting of big spells unhindered. Fatties backed up by Thorns and Wastelands has also been pretty strong so far. I think two is a reasonable number.

I do want the fourth Cavern, but I really don't know what to cut. It can be either the 3rd Eye or fourth City, in my opinion. I think I like having three Eyes though - although drawing additional is the worst - because it really can lead to your most busted nut draws. City has been usual great or pain in the ass when its your only Sol Land on turn one.

I'll tinker with both cuts and see which feels best.


Pithing Needle is probably not good enough versus Miracles in my opinion. There are many draws where you get wrecked by things besides Top. I'd rather have the extra Endbringers to maintain threat density so that you can pace your threats effectively. It also shoots down Mentor tokens, albeit slowly.

How was Simian Spirit Guide for you? Did you feel like you needed the extra velocity? In my testing, at least, it seemed like I didn't really need it, and would prefer to have some higher impact cards in those slots to make the deck a little more resilient to disruption.

As for Blood Moon, there's always Mind Stone, but that card is so durdly and feels wrong to be playing in an aggro shell. More proactive answers are extremely expensive and/or unreliable: All is Dust, Oblivion Stone, Spine of Ish Sah, Coercive Portal, Ulamog, etc. And finally, last and definitely least, there's basic Wastes, and if red Stompy decks and Painter variants are so omnipresent in your meta that we're talking about basic Wastes, I'd probably play a different deck.

You are probably right about Needle, especially since I have multiple Revokers in the main already. I really dislike Endbringer though, despite how powerful his abilities are. His mana cost is quite difficult to reach at times and he's pretty slow to get online - though I'm happy to be convinced otherwise. I might try Coercive Portal for that grind slot instead.

Simians, at least I feel, are necessary to have 12 ways to have turn 1 Chalice @ 1 (or Thorn on turn 1). I experimented with all matters of acceleration but surprinsingly the Monkey ended up being the best. Simian is also randomly castable under a Blood Moon and via Caverns when you need to get the Monkey beats in.

To be honest, I don't think we should care about Blood Moon in these faster builds. You should already be on the board swinging by the time it comes down from most fair decks (see my 2nd match against Grixis). Sure, t1 Blood Moon from Painter or Dragon Stompy is a beating, but those decks aren't popular enough for us to worry about. In the GW and RG builds I've been experimenting with, the stupid Talismans look to be a nice way to get around Blood Moon and cast Grip out of the sideboard I guess, which is probably necessary since these builds are slower.


I've been building this deck as well.

4 Eldrazi Mimic
3 Endless One
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
3 Endbringer
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger

3 Warping Wail
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Trinisphere
1 Jitte
2 Grim Monolith
1 All is Dust
2 Ratchet Bomb

4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
3 Eye of Ugin
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Wasteland
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Eldrazi Temple

SB:
2 Grafdigger's Cage
4 Thorn of Amethyst
1 All is Dust
1 Tsabo's Web
1 Powder Keg
3 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Trinisphere
1 Crucible of Worlds

Before, I played an older colorless version with 23 lands and found myself constantly stuck. Playing 25 lands feels much better. It's got a strange, standard vibe where you want to be hitting your land drops because the spells get much better with mana and inevitability with Eye of Ugin. Also, Urborg fixes so many problems, especially when you have the Ancient Tomb/Ancient Tomb scenario and need to stop killing yourself for mana.

I went 3-0 on Tuesday night.
R1: RUG delver. G1 - sat on two lands and died. G2 - T1 Ancient Tomb Jitte. T2 - EOT warping wail for a spawn and equipped Jitte. Jitte and Smasher close that out. G3 - he mulled to 5 and couldn't handle T1 Mimic, T2 Cavern into Endless for 3, T3 TKS.

R2: D&T. Not even close as Chalice for 1 shut off StP, followed up by Endbringer and Warping Wail taking out his x/1s and Ratchet Bomb swept up his 2CC cards.

R3: Miracles. Not an Entreat build and he got annihilated. Ratchet for 1 followed by Chalice for 1 to get rid of Tops and Swords. He couldn't handle Endbringers. Theoretically, Miracles has a rough time given the Caverns, Warping Wails (hits Terminus and Clique), and inevitable Eye of Ugin. It ends up being Blood Moon or bust.

Afterwards, we were discussing what the bad matchups were. Imperial Painter is #1 due to T1 moons and Ensnaring Bridge. Lands is #2 given that there is no interaction with Marit Lage except for Endbringer. Chalice for 1 stops Crop Rotation but he can still crush. MUD is a toss-up since Wurmcoil is a problem but I have Endbringers which can hold them off. I've been looking into Icy Manipulator or even Amber Prison in the SB just to deal with those problems.

Interesting build, not sure if I like mixing the Mimic package with higher-end threats like Ulamog as well as 3Ball which can non-bo with your Eye. I found in most aggro shells you don't need Ulamog, chaining Smashers with your Eyes is perfectly reasonable. You've really featured Endbringer as one of your primary threats in this list though - how has he been?

Also Painter is not just #1 because Moons and Bridge - Painter himself also shuts down the majority of our mana base. I think the matchup is actually completely lopsided as they have so many cards which win the game on the spot (and tutors to go find those cards).


After some playtesting, "Eldrazi with Hats on" is just too much of a pile to be any good. :rolleyes:

Back to the way better G/W build.

@MD.Ghost: How would you build the GW manabase without post? As I said, I'm unimpressed the Cloudpost manabase and a third Eye would be nice.

I ended up with:

4 Ancient Tomb
4 Eldrazi Temple
3 Eye of Ugin
2 City of Traitors
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Brushland
3 Horizon Canopy (or 1 Horizon Canopy, 2 Savannah)
1 Karakas

And:

4 Talisman of Unity

I trimmed down Cities a fair bit since the GW builds are a bit less explosive (at least, mine is) and the disadvantage of City is noticeable as the games go longer.

[Barook]

Somewhat relevant to the people using World Breaker (http://magicjudge.tumblr.com/post/139060770054/trulyaliem-cannotwynn-magicjudge-you-cant-use)

[ZEROorDIE]

Been thinking about this deck since the spoiler and lurking this thread since page 1, play a good bit of mud and stompy decks definitely interested. Haven't been able to play much legacy lately but plan on doing some testing with this deck this weekend. List is still a little up in the air


Creatures
3 phyrexian revoker
4 endless one
4 eldrazi mimic
4 thought-knot seer
4 reality smasher

Protection
4 chalice of the void
3 trinisphere/thorn of amethyst
3 warping wail
2 dismember

Mana
3 mox diamond/simian spirit guide/elvish spirit guide
4 cavern of souls
4 city if traitors
4 ancient tomb
4 eldrazi temple
4 mishra's factory/wasteland
3 eye of ugin
1 urborg, tomb of yawgmoth

SB
Tbd


Thoughts

Trinisphere v thorn- way I see it is, trinisphere is far better against most of the field but really hurts casting the eldrazi early, mox and dismember, and for the most part isn't castable on t1(unlike most red stompy lists that will run 4 ssg and 4 mox). Thorn, on the other hand, doesn't slow down delver/goyf/elves/d&t nearly as much.

Mox diamond v spirit guide- neither produce colorless mana, diamond sticks around but is weaker without crucible since most of your spells are high cmc without eye in play(and pitching that second/third land to get your t1 chalice/sphere into play feels real bad when you get wasted and don't draw more lands). spirit guide is instant(great against daze). Simian can actually be cast with an active blood moon and can carry equipment if you play them. And yes for those of you playing green, don't forget that you've got a spirit guide as well, although not castable under blood moon without talisman/mox mana.

Wasteland v factory- I think this is more of a meta call and maybe some combination might be right.

Right now leaning toward
3 trinisphere
3 simian spirit guide
4 mishra's factory

Maybe try and squeeze 2 wasteland into the SB.

Thoughts/tips?

[Captain Hammer]

I just went 4-0 with this list...


Mana - 24
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2 Sea Gate Wreckage
4 Eye of Ugin
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Crystal Vein
4 City of Traitors

Disruption - 12
2 Warping Wail
2 Ratchet Bomb
4 Thorn of Amethyst
4 Chalice of the Void

Creatures - 24
4 Endless One
4 Eldrazi Mimic
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
3 Phyrexian Revoker
3 Conduit of Ruin
1 Ulamog's Crusher
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger

Sideboard - 15
3 Sun Droplet
2 Warping Wail
2 Spatial Contortion
1 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Gut Shot
2 All is Dust
3 Faerie Macabre


I've been very pleased with the deck's performance, the curve is about as perfect as it could be.

I'm planning to take the same list with a sideboard identical to the list above to a Modern Tournament this weekend with the tweaks...
+22 Cards
4 Matter Reshaper
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Ghost Quarter
4 Blinkmoth Nexus
2 Mutavault
2 Wastes
2 Dismember

-22 Cards
-4 Ancient Tomb
-4 Crystal Vein
-4 City of Traitors
-4 Thorn of Amethyst
-3 Conduit of Ruin
-1 Ulamog's Crusher
-1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
-1 Phyrexian Revoker

Both Sea Gate Wreckage and Conduit of Ruin + Ulamog proved to be a god send vs. Miracles. I think it's a mistake not to play them. Conduit has been so solid that I'm considering cutting a Revoker to play the 4th Conduit.

Sea Gate Wreckage is a far better way to combat counterspells than Cavern of Souls imo. The main cards that you don't want getting countered, Chalices and to a lesser extent Warping Wails and Revokers aren't protected by Cavern. In fact, Cavern makes it such that those key cards almost always end up being the ones that get countered. Wreckage on the other hand blows the game wide open and outright wins games all by itself if your opponents manages to stabilize while taking you to top deck mode.

Eye of Ugin is too explosive when paired with Mimics and Endless Ones not to play as a 4 of IMO. The occasional hands you have to mulligans are more than made up for by the hands that have you dropping down anywhere from 2-5 2/2s and 2/1s on your very first turn. Likewise, the acceleration that City of Traitors and Crystal Vein provides are well worth having to sac them in order to let you empty out your hand a full turn or two earlier.

Urborg effectively lets Ugin generate 3 mana, while also letting you use Ancient Tombs to make mana without costing you life.

Thoughts?

[MD.Ghost]

Somewhat relevant to the people using World Breaker (http://magicjudge.tumblr.com/post/139060770054/trulyaliem-cannotwynn-magicjudge-you-cant-use)

Weird but seems ok, i never returned World Breaker. If i casted him he won ne the game.

If i understand the Judge words about Temple right, we can still use it for the Ability of Eldrazi Displacer or? For me this is important, because Displacer is very good with Temple so far.

EDIT:

If you like ramp, need a good Graveyard Hate and some adjustments vs Mirror/Gofy/SneakShow etc. you can keep it also simple (instead of headaches with a colorfull manabase^^).

Quick and solid "Black Build" would be (remember my core build):

Lands: 4 Tombs, 4 Temple, 4 Cavern 4 Cloud, 4 Glimmer, 2 Eye, 2 Urborg, which means a good mix between tempo (Urborg + Eye), protection (Glimmer and Urborg+Tomb) and ramp (the only way to abuse stuff like Ulamog, Eye, All is Dust etc.).

Creatures: 4 Seer, 4 Smasher, 3 Endless One, 3 Reshaper, 3 Revoker, 1 Ulamog and 1 Metamorph so you gain some Disruption with Revoker, the ability to go over the top with Ulamog and 1 Metamorph for more Smasher, Seer or stuff from your Opponent.

Rest: 3 Monolith, 3 Mind Stone, 4 Chalice, 1 Sphere, 4 Wail, 2 All is Dust, it is a good amount of ramp (and protection from moon and manadenial), removal and prison elements (and protection from combo).

Side:
2 Dismember (work with Urborg, offers T1 help and kill Gofy, Smasher etc.)
2 Endbringer (some lategame stuff that will also help vs SneakShow, Mirror and other builds with big creatures)
4 Leyline of the Void (simply the hardest stuff vs Graveyard decks, counterproof, hard to remove, turn 0)
3 Ratchet Bomb (wipe the field between Dismember and All is Dust)
3 Thorn (Combo and Burn)
1 Tsabo's Web (if Lands or Manadenial from DnT is a problem)

It should work well enough, Metarmorph is the only "can be anything else element" here (can also be Conduit of Ruin, Endbringer etc. but Metamorph will also adress some problems if it hits the field, i mentioned one game with copy Jitte from opponent, equip to Smasher and Win^^).

[CovenantElite30]

Play 4 Cavern! - Card is nuts (note: you can also use it for Revoker if you have more than u need etc.).

-----------------------
I playtest my Ramp.dec (with the little GW-Splash, 2 Brushlands, 1+1 Displacer, 2 World Breaker) the day and i got a nice result so far (9:3):

9 victories (3x Miracle, 1x Mirror, 1x Shardless, 1x MUD, 1x DnT, 1x Storm, 1x Omnishow)
3 defeats (1x Miracle, 1x Elves, 1x MUD)

Some notes:

Miracle (lost the one 1:2) can only win with Moon+Mentor and some of the common support (Terminus, Swords etc.) and i think we see more +2 Moon in most Miracle-Sides after Eldrazi full arrived at Legacy. Good news here: Lands will also be not happy to see that as a common tech, because lands profit most of the time from the fact that no one have good hate vs this matchup.

MUD it was 2:0 and 0:2 pretty much luck based, i faced one Worker T2 with Greaves and 2 Wurmcoil before i have done anything...another game i had Wail for Worker, Displacer for a Blightsteel Boy and won the "Mana race" (we both had Cloudpost^^) with Conduit into Worldbreaker and Conduit into Ulamog.

Elves i lost also 1:2, i knew the deck well enough and Chalice/Sphere will not be GG until you also have Wail for NO (or snipe the single Rec.Sage until he kills your prison stuff with the help of insect).

BUG Shardless (my friend sawatarix piloted it) was very easy. Won the last one with Displacer(!) tapping his dude and attack for the win. All is Dust can also be pretty good if you face Jace, Library and all the colored dudes on the field.

Mirror vs Eldrazi was also very tricky because my opponent had a colorless build with Waste, Oblivion Sower (oh boy was that good vs my Cloudposts.dec^^) and Sword of Fire and Ice. The last game i faced a Smasher with Batterskull (!) i only won this with a timely World Breaker and follow up with a bigger Game Plan (Ulamog).

-----------------
You can see all the matchups at my signature link (with german notes), build 3 is the Ramp.dec with minor GW Splash.

-----------------
EDIT: Barook - deeper GW build:

4 Tomb, 4 Temple, 4 Cavern, 3 City, 3 Eye, 4 Brushland, 2 Canopy, 1 Karakas and 4 Mox or 4 Talisman would be my first sketch.


You seem to be having great results with your deck, could you post your version 3 decklist?

Thank you ;-)

[Barook]

Weird but seems ok, i never returned World Breaker. If i casted him he won ne the game.

If i understand the Judge words about Temple right, we can still use it for the Ability of Eldrazi Displacer or? For me this is important, because Displacer is very good with Temple so far.
Sure, Displacer works, since it's a colorless Elrazi in play, as the Temple demands. Problem is that World Breaker in the GY is a not an Eldrazi, but an Eldrazi card.

[MD.Ghost]

You seem to be having great results with your deck, could you post your version 3 decklist?

Thank you ;-)

Post#244:
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?30299-DECK-Eldrazi-Stompy&p=930434&viewfull=1#post930434

Overall a bit slower with Cloudposts and Ramp (so clearly no Mimic Aggro) but with more options for Mid-Late Game, which means Turn3+ (i had games with Ulamog or All is Dust T3, but sure it will only work if your Opponent doesnt disrupt your Mana^^).

[Tokugawa]

First tops record on TCdecks:

Michele Delpiazzo
Deck Name: Eldrazi Illimitati
Creatures [24]

2 Endbringer
3 Endless One
3 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Eldrazi Mimic
4 Matter Reshaper
4 Reality Smasher
4 Thought-Knot Seer
Instants [4]

1 Dismember
3 Warping Wail
Artifacts [8]

4 Chalice of the Void
4 Thorn of Amethyst
Lands [24]

2 Mishra's Factory
3 City of Traitors
3 Eye of Ugin
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Wasteland

http://tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=19547&iddeck=148785

[ChemicalBurns]

Been thinking about this deck since the spoiler and lurking this thread since page 1, play a good bit of mud and stompy decks definitely interested. Haven't been able to play much legacy lately but plan on doing some testing with this deck this weekend. List is still a little up in the air


Creatures
3 phyrexian revoker
4 endless one
4 eldrazi mimic
4 thought-knot seer
4 reality smasher

Protection
4 chalice of the void
3 trinisphere/thorn of amethyst
3 warping wail
2 dismember

Mana
3 mox diamond/simian spirit guide/elvish spirit guide
4 cavern of souls
4 city if traitors
4 ancient tomb
4 eldrazi temple
4 mishra's factory/wasteland
3 eye of ugin
1 urborg, tomb of yawgmoth

SB
Tbd


Thoughts

Trinisphere v thorn- way I see it is, trinisphere is far better against most of the field but really hurts casting the eldrazi early, mox and dismember, and for the most part isn't castable on t1(unlike most red stompy lists that will run 4 ssg and 4 mox). Thorn, on the other hand, doesn't slow down delver/goyf/elves/d&t nearly as much.

Mox diamond v spirit guide- neither produce colorless mana, diamond sticks around but is weaker without crucible since most of your spells are high cmc without eye in play(and pitching that second/third land to get your t1 chalice/sphere into play feels real bad when you get wasted and don't draw more lands). spirit guide is instant(great against daze). Simian can actually be cast with an active blood moon and can carry equipment if you play them. And yes for those of you playing green, don't forget that you've got a spirit guide as well, although not castable under blood moon without talisman/mox mana.

Wasteland v factory- I think this is more of a meta call and maybe some combination might be right.

Right now leaning toward
3 trinisphere
3 simian spirit guide
4 mishra's factory

Maybe try and squeeze 2 wasteland into the SB.

Thoughts/tips?

Seems good and similar to a lot of the aggro lists popping up already. I personally favour Thorn because the non-bo with Eye is real, but as you said, metagame considerations can alter this. In terms of acceleration, I think Simian generally gets the nod because Blood Moon considerations, but as you mentioned Elvish Spirit Guide is an acceleration option in World Breaker builds that can actually fix mana! Although we've been seeing most lists along those lines go a bit "bigger", I don't think a faster a World Breaker list is out of the question with Elvish Spirit Guide incorporated - it just means most of your flex lands need to become green lands (Grove, Brushland, Karplusan Forest etc...). Could be interesting, but I'm not sure what this would look like and whether it's just inferior to the lists with Talismans, 12Post and etc.


I just went 4-0 with this list...


Mana - 24
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2 Sea Gate Wreckage
4 Eye of Ugin
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Crystal Vein
4 City of Traitors

Disruption - 12
2 Warping Wail
2 Ratchet Bomb
4 Thorn of Amethyst
4 Chalice of the Void

Creatures - 24
4 Endless One
4 Eldrazi Mimic
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
3 Phyrexian Revoker
3 Conduit of Ruin
1 Ulamog's Crusher
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger

Sideboard - 15
3 Sun Droplet
2 Warping Wail
2 Spatial Contortion
1 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Gut Shot
2 All is Dust
3 Faerie Macabre


I've been very pleased with the deck's performance, the curve is about as perfect as it could be.

I'm planning to take the same list with a sideboard identical to the list above to a Modern Tournament this weekend with the tweaks...
+22 Cards
4 Matter Reshaper
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Ghost Quarter
4 Blinkmoth Nexus
2 Mutavault
2 Wastes
2 Dismember

-22 Cards
-4 Ancient Tomb
-4 Crystal Vein
-4 City of Traitors
-4 Thorn of Amethyst
-3 Conduit of Ruin
-1 Ulamog's Crusher
-1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
-1 Phyrexian Revoker

Both Sea Gate Wreckage and Conduit of Ruin + Ulamog proved to be a god send vs. Miracles. I think it's a mistake not to play them. Conduit has been so solid that I'm considering cutting a Revoker to play the 4th Conduit.

Sea Gate Wreckage is a far better way to combat counterspells than Cavern of Souls imo. The main cards that you don't want getting countered, Chalices and to a lesser extent Warping Wails and Revokers aren't protected by Cavern. In fact, Cavern makes it such that those key cards almost always end up being the ones that get countered. Wreckage on the other hand blows the game wide open and outright wins games all by itself if your opponents manages to stabilize while taking you to top deck mode.

Eye of Ugin is too explosive when paired with Mimics and Endless Ones not to play as a 4 of IMO. The occasional hands you have to mulligans are more than made up for by the hands that have you dropping down anywhere from 2-5 2/2s and 2/1s on your very first turn. Likewise, the acceleration that City of Traitors and Crystal Vein provides are well worth having to sac them in order to let you empty out your hand a full turn or two earlier.

Urborg effectively lets Ugin generate 3 mana, while also letting you use Ancient Tombs to make mana without costing you life.

Thoughts?

4-0 where? Would love to hear matchups and so on about this list - it looks like it has a lot of very interesting technology to incorporate!

No Wasteland. No Cavern. Four Crystal Vein. Four Eye of Ugin. Two Sea Gate Wreckage?!

Breaking all the apparently set-in-stone Legacy hallmarks of Stompy, I'm not sure whether you're a mad man or a genius Captain Hammer. Considering your results though, I'd lean towards the latter. I love your list's dedication to the balls-to-the-wall Mimic and Endless Ones on turn one draws, though in my testing I've found at times, if not followed up by further pressure, these draws can get quickly disassembled by a timely Terminus or even a Stoneforge into Batterskull. The insane nuts sometimes just aren't as insane as they are in Modern due to the power level of the format. I also find it interesting that not only is your list going "faster" with all the 20 Sol Lands, but it's also going "bigger" because... With 20 Sol Lands, why not, I guess. As you said, Eye and Sea Gate give you a lot of inevitability. Ulamogs Crusher is also sweet - but are not the cheaper alternatives like Endbringer a little better? To be honest, I'm not a fan of the Ulamog package in the aggro lists, since I feel you can lean on Eye to simply find chains of Smashers against Miracles, but I'm definitely willing to give it a go. Again, your deck has a lot more mana than typical aggro lists so I'm interested to see how the duality of the deck functions. I'm afraid of natural drawing my Ulamog and getting quite a clunky hand though.

And on Sea Gate Wreckage I'm very excited to test it, especially since it seems to be perfect in a list like this that's main strength seems to be its ability to spew out its hand very quickly - which again makes me wary of having Ulamog and co. in there clunking up draws where I need to get Hellbent.

But yeah, Captain Hammer your list is sweet, I will definitely be testing it.

Oh yeah, Eldrazi has 4-0ed on MODO by Tenjum (I'm guessing this is Andrew Tenjum, but I'm not even sure). His list is:

Creatures: (23)
4 Eldrazi Mimic
3 Endbringer
4 Endless One
4 Lodestone Golem
4 Reality Smasher
4 Thought-Knot Seer

Artifacts: (11)
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Mox Diamond
3 Trinisphere

Land: (26)
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Cavern of Souls
4 City of Traitors
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Eye of Ugin
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Wasteland

Sideboard (15)
3 Ashen Rider
4 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Ratchet Bomb
4 Thorn of Amethyst

Interesting things to note:
- Mox Diamond as accelration, 3Ball as addtional lock pieces
- Endbringer as a big Eldrazi of choice
- LODESTONE GOLEM as another dude to pseudo-lock. I'm not sure how much I like this... casting Lodestone only to delay my Smashing... Ehhhhhh.
- 4 Eye.

Nonetheless, lots of interesting lists going around everyone, lots of interesting techonology to test.

[iostream]

I see some lists running maindeck Ratchet Bomb. To those pilots: how has it been? It seems like a pretty bizarre choice at first glance to me, but I can kind of see how most decks have at least something that gets hit by it?

[Barook]

Storm match-up seem pretty decent so far, but what do we want to set our Chalice to? @0 or @1? And how do other disruption cards in our hands influence this decision?

[NeckBird]

This is what my brother has been testing so far:

http://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/364273#paper

Creatures (24)
4 Endless One
3 Eldrazi Mimic
3 Matter Reshaper
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
4 Endbringer
1 Void Winnower
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
Spells (12)
4 Chalice of the Void
2 Grim Monolith
1 Thorn of Amethyst
3 Warping Wail
2 Trinisphere
Lands (24)
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Cavern of Souls
3 City of Traitors
4 Eldrazi Temple
3 Eye of Ugin
2 Mishra's Factory
4 Wasteland
Sideboard (15)
3 Tormod's Crypt
1 Null Rod
3 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Spatial Contortion
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Warping Wail
2 All Is Dust

Some cards are there because he only owns one Thorn of Amethyst and three City of Traitors so there would be changes if he had everything he needed. The exact list would look like:

Creatures (24)
4 Endless One
4 Eldrazi Mimic
3 Matter Reshaper
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
4 Endbringer
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
Spells (12)
4 Chalice of the Void
2 Grim Monolith
3 Thorn of Amethyst
3 Warping Wail
Lands (24)
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Cavern of Souls
4 City of Traitors
4 Eldrazi Temple
3 Eye of Ugin
1 Mishra's Factory
4 Wasteland
Sideboard (15)
3 Tormod's Crypt
1 Null Rod
3 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Ratchet Bomb
2 Spatial Contortion
1 Thorn of Amethyst
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Warping Wail
2 All Is Dust

We tested with Death & Taxes, Miracles, and Goblins all pre-board.

Unsurprisingly, Death & Taxes is really difficult for Eldrazi to beat, though it has a better matchup than MUD or other Prison Stompy variants. The only card D&T cares about is Endbringer, which is absolutely insane. If you aren't playing four Endbringer already I would strongly consider playing four - it's insanely powerful and shores up otherwise poor fair matchups. Even after Ulamog exiled my Jitte and Serra Avenger and he attacked me, I won. You can't really do much about fliers (Endbringer can pacify or ping Flickerwisp, Warping Wail exiles Flickerwisp, Ulamog cast trigger) so an equipped Serra Avenger can just be GG.

Miracles gets crushed. They need Terminus, but Eye of Ugin doesn't care about Terminus, so they get crushed. They need STP, but Chalice doesn't care about STP, so they get crushed. They need countermagic, but Cavern doesn't care about countermagic, so they get crushed. Miracles dies, the end.

We thought Goblins was going to be a poor matchup, but it was closer than we thought. Eldrazi can actually be faster than Goblins with Mimic into Thought-Knot into Smasher and Warping Wail can take care of an early Lackey. Endbringer is a house and is necessary to win if you want to survive in the mid-late game. Not seeing Chalice, 3-sphere, or Thorn makes the matchup about 50/50, probably more like 53/47 in Goblins favor. Having any of those in your opener is just really bad. Once you get rid of those post-board, the matchup might even be slightly favorable for Eldrazi.

Deck is pretty good overall. With some tuning it could get even better. What it's really missing is a three drop. Matter Reshaper just isn't that good, but I think is a necessary evil for now. Thorn of Amethyst is definitely better than Trinisphere in this deck especially because 3-Sphere can actually be difficult to cast even on Turn 2 because of Eye of Ugin and only two Grim Monolith. Thorn is just the more consistent lock piece. Don't play Void Winnower, it's a win more card, but Ulamog is actually quite potent as a one of. Ulamog is by no means necessary, but is certainly a viable choice. Wasteland is actually a bit awkward cause the only land you care about is Rishadan Port and there were times I wished it were a Crystal Vein, an additional Mishra's Factory, or even Blinkmoth Nexus to get some defense for fliers. Again, play four Endbringer in the 75.

[Barook]

Unsurprisingly, Death & Taxes is really difficult for Eldrazi to beat, though it has a better matchup than MUD or other Prison Stompy variants. The only card D&T cares about is Endbringer, which is absolutely insane. If you aren't playing four Endbringer already I would strongly consider playing four - it's insanely powerful and shores up otherwise poor fair matchups. Even after Ulamog exiled my Jitte and Serra Avenger and he attacked me, I won. You can't really do much about fliers (Endbringer can pacify or ping Flickerwisp, Warping Wail exiles Flickerwisp, Ulamog cast trigger) so an equipped Serra Avenger can just be GG.
D&T is far from easy, but I don't think it's that bad for us. That was my impression when playing against it yesterday and I'm a D&T player myself.

Your build has quite a few cards that are very weak in the D&T match-up (Endless One <--- Flickerwisp; they don't care about Thorn; City being a major liability here). Endbringer is something D&T doesn't want to face, but it's slow as fuck. Have you tried to playtest with Jitte yet?

[Patrunkenphat7]

Storm match-up seem pretty decent so far, but what do we want to set our Chalice to? @0 or @1? And how do other disruption cards in our hands influence this decision?

I think it depends heavily on your hand. I would value Chalice on one the highest, but I would play it on zero if I could also use my mana to play other disruptive elements. Heads up that you can play a Chalice on one and then follow it up with a Metamorph Chalice for Chalice on zero... Sort of cool.

[NeckBird]

D&T is far from easy, but I don't think it's that bad for us. That was my impression when playing against it yesterday and I'm a D&T player myself.

Your build has quite a few cards that are very weak in the D&T match-up (Endless One <--- Flickerwisp; they don't care about Thorn; City being a major liability here). Endbringer is something D&T doesn't want to face, but it's slow as fuck. Have you tried to playtest with Jitte yet?

Haven't tested Jitte yet, I'm sure it's very good though. It didn't help my brother than I've been on D&T for 3 years (just got Judge Ports too so now the deck is 100% foiled out) and he was just learning to play Eldrazi. Endbringer is slow, but D&T is one of the slowest decks in the format. He would've lost 6 or 7 turns earlier if it weren't for Endbringer. I think it's the best card versus D&T easily being able to ping X/1's, be a card advantage engine, or at a minimum hold back an attacker. Probably put the matchup at around 55/45 in favor of D&T where MUD and other Prison Stompy decks are about 60/40 or slightly worse than that.

[Patrunkenphat7]

Endbringer would definitely be amazing vs D+T if you can get it into play, but do you guys have trouble vs 4 Port and Wasteland?

[Admiral_Arzar]

All is Dust crushes Death and Taxes, and if you can get the mana to cast Endbringer you can get the mana to give your opponent AIDs.

[Patrunkenphat7]

All these cards seem great against D+T, but it just feels like the way you lose to them is Port/Wasteland.

[T-101]

I think it depends heavily on your hand. I would value Chalice on one the highest, but I would play it on zero if I could also use my mana to play other disruptive elements. Heads up that you can play a Chalice on one and then follow it up with a Metamorph Chalice for Chalice on zero... Sort of cool.

I would definitely put Chalice on 1 first against Storm, just because of the quantity of cards it hits. Brainstorm, Ponder, Probe, Dark Rit, 6-8 discard spells, maybe some number of Top/Preordain.

LED is a more powerful card than the 1 drops, and Petal is very good too, but it's 8 cards vs. 25ish. Beyond countering nearly half the deck, Chalice at 1 robs them of information about your hand (since they can't Probe/discard spell you). Allows for your Warping Wails to blowout an Infernal/Past in Flames/Petition.

Post board, I would also consider playing a second Chalice on 1 before a Chalice on 0, because of Abrupt Decay.

[Captain Hammer]

I just went 4-0 with this list...


Mana - 24
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2 Sea Gate Wreckage
4 Eye of Ugin
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Crystal Vein
4 City of Traitors

Disruption - 12
2 Warping Wail
2 Ratchet Bomb
4 Thorn of Amethyst
4 Chalice of the Void

Creatures - 24
4 Endless One
4 Eldrazi Mimic
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
3 Phyrexian Revoker
3 Conduit of Ruin
1 Ulamog's Crusher
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger

Sideboard - 15
3 Sun Droplet
2 Warping Wail
2 Spatial Contortion
1 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Gut Shot
2 All is Dust
3 Faerie Macabre


I've been very pleased with the deck's performance, the curve is about as perfect as it could be.

I'm planning to take the same list with a sideboard identical to the list above to a Modern Tournament this weekend with the tweaks...
+22 Cards
4 Matter Reshaper
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Ghost Quarter
4 Blinkmoth Nexus
2 Mutavault
2 Wastes
2 Dismember

-22 Cards
-4 Ancient Tomb
-4 Crystal Vein
-4 City of Traitors
-4 Thorn of Amethyst
-3 Conduit of Ruin
-1 Ulamog's Crusher
-1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
-1 Phyrexian Revoker

Both Sea Gate Wreckage and Conduit of Ruin + Ulamog proved to be a god send vs. Miracles. I think it's a mistake not to play them. Conduit has been so solid that I'm considering cutting a Revoker to play the 4th Conduit.

Sea Gate Wreckage is a far better way to combat counterspells than Cavern of Souls imo. The main cards that you don't want getting countered, Chalices and to a lesser extent Warping Wails and Revokers aren't protected by Cavern. In fact, Cavern makes it such that those key cards almost always end up being the ones that get countered. Wreckage on the other hand blows the game wide open and outright wins games all by itself if your opponents manages to stabilize while taking you to top deck mode.

Eye of Ugin is too explosive when paired with Mimics and Endless Ones not to play as a 4 of IMO. The occasional hands you have to mulligans are more than made up for by the hands that have you dropping down anywhere from 2-5 2/2s and 2/1s on your very first turn. Likewise, the acceleration that City of Traitors and Crystal Vein provides are well worth having to sac them in order to let you empty out your hand a full turn or two earlier.

Urborg effectively lets Ugin generate 3 mana, while also letting you use Ancient Tombs to make mana without costing you life.

Thoughts?

4-0 where? Would love to hear matchups and so on about this list - it looks like it has a lot of very interesting technology to incorporate!

No Wasteland. No Cavern. Four Crystal Vein. Four Eye of Ugin. Two Sea Gate Wreckage?!

Breaking all the apparently set-in-stone Legacy hallmarks of Stompy, I'm not sure whether you're a mad man or a genius Captain Hammer. Considering your results though, I'd lean towards the latter. I love your list's dedication to the balls-to-the-wall Mimic and Endless Ones on turn one draws, though in my testing I've found at times, if not followed up by further pressure, these draws can get quickly disassembled by a timely Terminus or even a Stoneforge into Batterskull. The insane nuts sometimes just aren't as insane as they are in Modern due to the power level of the format. I also find it interesting that not only is your list going "faster" with all the 20 Sol Lands, but it's also going "bigger" because... With 20 Sol Lands, why not, I guess. As you said, Eye and Sea Gate give you a lot of inevitability. Ulamogs Crusher is also sweet - but are not the cheaper alternatives like Endbringer a little better? To be honest, I'm not a fan of the Ulamog package in the aggro lists, since I feel you can lean on Eye to simply find chains of Smashers against Miracles, but I'm definitely willing to give it a go. Again, your deck has a lot more mana than typical aggro lists so I'm interested to see how the duality of the deck functions. I'm afraid of natural drawing my Ulamog and getting quite a clunky hand though.

And on Sea Gate Wreckage I'm very excited to test it, especially since it seems to be perfect in a list like this that's main strength seems to be its ability to spew out its hand very quickly - which again makes me wary of having Ulamog and co. in there clunking up draws where I need to get Hellbent.

But yeah, Captain Hammer your list is sweet, I will definitely be testing it.

Nonetheless, lots of interesting lists going around everyone, lots of interesting techonology to test.

Thanks Chemical Burns. I play at a store in Ohio. I prefer not to go into greater detail online as I value my privacy but I would be happy to PM you more information if you would like.

Returning to a discussion of the tech, I agree that Matter Reshaper seems to be the weakest Eldrazi in the lists and I haven't missed cutting it at all. My mana base is very tilted towards even casting cost threats hence it's emphasis on playing 2cc, 4cc, 6cc along with a singleton 8cc and 10cc threats. I would love to play Artisan of Kozilek or Void Winnower in lieu of Ulamog's Crusher but a 7cc/8cc Eldrazi in this slot is a much safer choice to go with than a 9cc card.

The 3cc slot only becomes relevant in the occasions that one of my lands gets Wastelanded and I end up stuck with a sol land paired with a Sea Gate/Urborg/Crystal Vein. For those situations, I quite like the idea of playing a 2cc/3cc artifact that reduces mana costs by atleast 2.

I'm looking into cutting an Endless One and the 2 Ratchet Bombs (never bad but rarely game breaking) in order to accomidate either...
Worn Powerstone
Urza's Incubator

in order to increase the capacity to support the higher curve threat base that I vastly prefer to Matter Reshaper.

I have also considered Kozilek's Channeler (equivalent in cc to a 3cc artifact under an Eye of Ugin) and Grim Monolith (though I prefer a more consistent mana source to best support a high curve threatbase to another one time use mana source).

[MaximumC]

After some playtesting, "Eldrazi with Hats on" is just too much of a pile to be any good. :rolleyes:

Back to the way better G/W build.

@MD.Ghost: How would you build the GW manabase without post? As I said, I'm unimpressed the Cloudpost manabase and a third Eye would be nice.

At least for the fast aggro Eldrazi plan, the Eyes are critical.

If you look at the Modern decks, they rely on the fact that Eye makes all the cheaper Eldrazi into Zoo-quality beaters. Skyspawner is great when it's a 2/1 flier and a 1/1 with upside for U; Matter Reshaper stops sucking donkey butt when it's a 3/2 with upside for 1. (And yes, I think Matter Reshaper is a far weaker card than a lot of people. It gives you card advantage, but only if your opponent can't afford to ignore a 3/2. Big freak'n deal).

The advantage to the Cloudpost plan is that it frees you up from having to rely solely on Eldrazi.

In either case, I'm not sure what you gain by giving yourself another 4 - 6 mana to pay in order to stick pants on something.


All is Dust crushes Death and Taxes, and if you can get the mana to cast Endbringer you can get the mana to give your opponent AIDs.

But Smallpox only costs BB...

[Barook]

Updated my decklist to reflect the changes of trying out a Cloudpost-less manabase:

GW Eldrazi Ramp 2.0

4 Ancient Tomb
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Eldrazi Temple
3 Eye of Ugin
4 Brushland
1 Karakas
1 City of Traitors
4 Mishra's Factory

3 Talisman of Unity
1 Mox Diamond

2 Endless One
2 Eldrazi Displacer
2 Matter Reshaper
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
2 Conduit of Ruin
2 World Breaker
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger

4 Chalice of the Void
1 Trinisphere
3 Warping Wail
2 All Is Dust
2 Umezawa's Jitte

Sideboard
1 Umezawa's Jitte
3 Ratchet Bomb
3 Thorn of Amethyst
1 All Is Dust
1 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Karakas
4 Rest in Peace

Some notes:
- Umezawa's Jitte was added in the MD as a lifegain card and to dominate creature match-ups. I cut 2 Mox Diamond for that.
- Mishra's Factory could be any land, but I think it might go along nicely with Jitte if you can't stick one of your Eldrazi.
- Moved 1 Karakas to the main, which allows place for a third Jitte in the board for the matches where we really need it.
- Jitte should help us to handle creatures better, so I replaced my Spatial Contortion with a third Ratchet Bomb. It's just way too useful to only run two copies in my opinion.
- Talisman/Mox split could go either way. I tried to keep at least one Mox since it's nice ramp sometimes and with only 1 copy, you'll never run into situations where you draw multiples.
- I might consider Kor Haven as a 1-of. Not sure if it can deliver, but might be cool.

[Fox]

You're kind of missing the point of Matter Reshaper, and that's the risk of looking at something that works in modern and trying to apply it to legacy - and it's good to see viewpoints like MaximumC's. As much as being critical advances decks, one thing missing is identifying what is causing the misjudgement (and offering new productive direction/s to pursue).

I think a ton of new Legacy decks suffer from "modern mentality," which in this case has people saying "Matter Reshaper is good because it is a 2-for-1." This is Legacy folks, we have most of the cards ever printed - why are we caring about indiscriminate value when we should be more concerned with breaking the underlying mechanics? We're how many pages into this thread and no one has noticed something like Brainstorm in response to Matter Reshaper's trigger, drawing 3 new cards and putting a manifest target like Phyrexian Dreadnought on top of our library, directly under Cloudform seems strong...cause like that's Ancestral Recall with upside. Obviously not going to work in a chalice deck, but let's at least make an attempt to identify key interactions before Tarmogoyf'ing out and saying "yep, it's just plain good."

[MaximumC]

You're kind of missing the point of Matter Reshaper, and that's the risk of looking at something that works in modern and trying to apply it to legacy - and it's good to see viewpoints like MaximumC's. As much as being critical advances decks, one thing missing is identifying what is causing the misjudgement (and offering new productive direction/s to pursue).

I think a ton of new Legacy decks suffer from "modern mentality," which in this case has people saying "Matter Reshaper is good because it is a 2-for-1." This is Legacy folks, we have most of the cards ever printed - why are we caring about indiscriminate value when we should be more concerned with breaking the underlying mechanics? We're how many pages into this thread and no one has noticed something like Brainstorm in response to Matter Reshaper's trigger, drawing 3 new cards and putting a manifest target like Phyrexian Dreadnought on top of our library, directly under Cloudform seems strong...cause like that's Ancestral Recall with upside. Obviously not going to work in a chalice deck, but let's at least make an attempt to identify key interactions before Tarmogoyf'ing out and saying "yep, it's just plain good."

I agree with this sentiment, but not the analysis.

As you pointed out, I take a very dim view of Matter Reshaper. It's a 3/2 for 3. If anyone bothers to blow it up, it replaces itself as a card, and depending on what you flip, it might also replace the mana you spent to cast it. That's great, but in the meantime all you did was play a 3/2. if you're playing Eldrazi lands, maybe it only cost you 1 mana to play, effectively. So, we're talking about a Wild Nacatl or Kird Ape that replaces itself. That's not a bad card, but it's also not near as broken as the other Eldrazi, and so I think it only has a role in balls-to-the-wall aggro lists.

Your example of using Brainstorm to maximize Matter Reshaper is a fine incidental use of the two cards, but a bad basis for a deck. If you didn't have reshaper, you can do exactly the same thing -- put Dreadnought on top -- and just cast the Cloudform. Costs you 1UUU versus 3C, and you didn't have to resolve a creature. More importantly, what kind of deck is going to be running Brainstorm, Cloudform, Dreadnought, and Matter Reshaper, anyway? Not a good one!

The broader point of being able to use Brainstorm to eke value out of a Reshaper that is destined for the bin, however, is a good one. I don't think it's got much combo potential, but if your Reshaper is dying anyway, a Brainstorm can ensure that you get the maximum value -- a card and functionally three mana -- out of the exchange. When you add to that the fact that Reshaper only matters if you're in a really dense aggro deck, I start to ask what kind of aggro decks run Brainstorm, anyway. That'd be Merfolk and Delver, basically. Merfolk has no interest in a 3/2 for 3, but Delver? It might actually be interesting to see if it would be possible to merge Eldrazi aggro and some flavor of Delver.

[Barook]

At least for the fast aggro Eldrazi plan, the Eyes are critical.
I think Eyes are critical in general to the strategy in general, not just Hyper Aggro. It's another painless Sol Land for most intends and purposes and gives us the edge in long, grindy games once you start to fetch the big boys. Given that Wasteland is a thing in Legacy, two copies don't feel satisfying to me.

@Fox: Matter Reshaper is worse in Legacy than Modern. Bolt is the most played card in Modern, while Legacy has quite a bit of removal that dodges its trigger clause (StP, Terminus, Jace, etc).

On a slightly different note:
- Played against a Miracle player on Cockatrice with a weird build (Daze, Wasteland - Mentor build maybe?).
- I have Displacer and TKS on the field and pressure his life totals
- He casts Humility. I follow up with World Breaker to exile his Humility (cast trigger ftw), swing, put him to 4.
- He SDT's for Brainstorm to set up Terminus. Activates SDT during my turn, casts Terminus, I Wail, swing, win. Salt ensues. :laugh:

God, I love this deck.

[caprino]

I think Eyes are critical in general to the strategy in general, not just Hyper Aggro. It's another painless Sol Land for most intends and purposes and gives us the edge in long, grindy games once you start to fetch the big boys. Given that Wasteland is a thing in Legacy, two copies don't feel satisfying to me.

@Fox: Matter Reshaper is worse in Legacy than Modern. Bolt is the most played card in Modern, while Legacy has quite a bit of removal that dodges its trigger clause (StP, Terminus, Jace, etc).

On a slightly different note:
- Played against a Miracle player on Cockatrice with a weird build (Daze, Wasteland - Mentor build maybe?).
- I have Displacer and TKS on the field and pressure his life totals
- He casts Humility. I follow up with World Breaker to exile his Humility (cast trigger ftw), swing, put him to 4.
- He SDT's for Brainstorm to set up Terminus. Activates SDT during my turn, casts Terminus, I Wail, swing, win. Salt ensues. :laugh:

God, I love this deck.

main deck and side list you play? thanks

[Fox]

@barook neat sequence of plays; definitely a good deck for trolling miracles players (true of most sol land/chalice decks given their weird mana curves).

As far as Legacy removal goes, most of it is pretty suspect. What I mean by that is if a hypothetical opponent isn't playing creatures and it turns said removal into dead maindeck cards, it seems pretty sub-optimal. It's definitely a personal playstyle preference, but personally if removal isn't bi-modal, I'm just not maindecking it. That's why creatures like Matter Reshaper are exciting; you're not confined charm-type cards or turning removal into burning opponent's life total. Now you've unlocked a third form of bi-modal removal precisely b/c no matter what deck your opponent is on you can always kill your own guy - and if they try to exile, you've constructed a deck that can respond by sending it to the graveyard instead.

It's actually kind of humorous when Legacy is broadcast and no one talks about the 4x StP in every white deck, but the moment a delver list has a single copy of Darkblast or Disfigure maindecked it's somehow the biggest talking point ever :laugh:. Now imagine how much more sense either of those pieces of black removal becomes when you run a guy like Matter Reshaper. Your examples of exiling removal in Legacy is valid, but tempered by the fact that Matter Reshaper probably comes with a smarter removal package. Terminus is good against any critter on the board, but miracles in general can't beat "bad" [high] mana curves - missing out on what will be a blind flip in this deck as designed seems inconsequential. A resolved 3/2 is still a game-ending threat as far as miracles is concerned, and one they really can't afford to address through creature combat.

[Barook]

First impression of Mishra's Factory has been pretty good so far. Bonus points for trolling Miracles even harder now. This is getting "12-Post vs Miracles" Tier lopsided.


main deck and side list you play? thanks
It's on the same page and three posts about the post you quoted. You should be able to solve this. :really:

Edit: Second impression of Mishra's Factory is still pretty good. Seems really worth it.

I've been thinking about cutting Ulamog from the maindeck (and move 1 copy to the sideboard - maybe). I've played quite a few games the last few days and I cast it once after tutoring it up against Miracles. In all other cases, it was a 100% dead draw. The only reason why I haven't cut it yet is because I don't know what else to put it. Maybe another Conduit or World Breaker? Endbringer? Something completely else, like Batterskull? And what to cut the board to put Ulamog in?

Also going to test -1 City -1 Factory for +2 Sea Gate Wreckage. Factory isn't underperforming, I just want to see how Sea Gate performs and it seemed like the most logical cut.

[josch6083]

Hey everyone

since I started to build this eldrazi deck, I had 2 concerns:

First: an opponents goyf/gangler can still be a big problem
Second: with Dismember/surgical extraction in my sideboard and ancient tomb in main, life can be very short

And now, that I´m not playing the post ramp anymore, the problems are even bigger, bacause of the lack of glimmerpost

Here is the solution: Basilisk collar

a 1 mana drop, that allows even your small cretures to kill a goyf. additionally you gain life. Imagine a turn 2 TNS equipped with collar in turn 3. And it can´t be handled by Needle or revoker like Jitte.

But the most amazing thing is the combo with endbringer. Because of the deathtouch and the untap ability you kill 2 creatures til your next untap step. :-)

And it is a big advantage in mirror matches.

Would appreciate your feedback.

[Barook]

Hey everyone

since I started to build this eldrazi deck, I had 2 concerns:

First: an opponents goyf/gangler can still be a big problem
Second: with Dismember/surgical extraction in my sideboard and ancient tomb in main, life can be very short

And now, that I´m not playing the post ramp anymore, the problems are even bigger, bacause of the lack of glimmerpost

Here is the solution: Basilisk collar

a 1 mana drop, that allows even your small cretures to kill a goyf. additionally you gain life. Imagine a turn 2 TNS equipped with collar in turn 3. And it can´t be handled by Needle or revoker like Jitte.

But the most amazing thing is the combo with endbringer. Because of the deathtouch and the untap ability you kill 2 creatures til your next untap step. :-)

And it is a big advantage in mirror matches.

Would appreciate your feedback.
Collar clashes with Chalice @1. I would rather run Jittes and maybe even a Batterskull instead.

[josch6083]

Yes, youre right. I play 1 collar and 1 jitte. Thats absolute accetable.

[Barook]

Played two matches vs. Reanimator. Karakas definitely pulled its weight here and stays. Displacer won a pre-board game by beating down and having double activation up against Griselbrand.

Rest in Peace was too slow and thus never relevant, though. Not too sure what to think about that one, since it should be good enough in other match-ups like Lands or Dredge. Also ruining Goyfs.

Edit: I don't think there are many situations where Sea Gate would be useful in my build since my hand is rarely empty. So I'm going back to +1 Factory (so good) and a single Kor Haven for testing purposes. Stopping random fatties or annoying flyers while tapping for mana sounds good to me, plus it doesn't leave blockers behind like Maze of Ith.

[Hopo]

Looks like eldrazis are leading the Swiss after 4 rounds in the TOP euro scg series right now.

Edit: Not playing any nonsense like Collars, Kor Havens or even Jittes.

Edit2: Jitte in SB, though

[CovenantElite30]

Looks like eldrazis are leading the Swiss after 4 rounds in the TOP euro scg series right now.

Edit: Not playing any nonsense like Collars, Kor Havens or even Jittes.

Edit2: Jitte in SB, though
Where can I found that? Are they streaming it?

[Patrunkenphat7]

Looks like eldrazis are leading the Swiss after 4 rounds in the TOP euro scg series right now.

Edit: Not playing any nonsense like Collars, Kor Havens or even Jittes.

Edit2: Jitte in SB, though

Is there tournament coverage online? If so can you link? Thanks!

Edit: I think I found it: http://www.twitch.tv/mtgquality

Edit again: They said there were only 2 Eldrazi decks at the event, and they are doing poorly...

[Hopo]

Is there tournament coverage online? If so can you link? Thanks!

Edit: I think I found it: http://www.twitch.tv/mtgquality

Edit again: They said there were only 2 Eldrazi decks at the event, and they are doing poorly...

During r4 there was an eldrazi deck list on screen with the position "1st". Of course it could have been some earlier round throwback.

[Krasman]

Played two matches vs. Reanimator. Karakas definitely pulled its weight here and stays. Displacer won a pre-board game by beating down and having double activation up against Griselbrand.

Rest in Peace was too slow and thus never relevant, though. Not too sure what to think about that one, since it should be good enough in other match-ups like Lands or Dredge. Also ruining Goyfs.

Edit: I don't think there are many situations where Sea Gate would be useful in my build since my hand is rarely empty. So I'm going back to +1 Factory (so good) and a single Kor Haven for testing purposes. Stopping random fatties or annoying flyers while tapping for mana sounds good to me, plus it doesn't leave blockers behind like Maze of Ith.

I have been really likely Mystifying Maze; it has done some work for me.

[Barook]

Factories continue to impress me. They go very nicely with the plan and play offense and defense accordingly.


Looks like eldrazis are leading the Swiss after 4 rounds in the TOP euro scg series right now.

Edit: Not playing any nonsense like Collars, Kor Havens or even Jittes.

Edit2: Jitte in SB, though
How can you say Jitte is nonsense? Haven is just something I'll try and there's no guarantee that it's good, but Jitte is definitely something that pulls its weight in creature match-ups. E.g. it was MVP vs. Infect today. Smasher --> equip Jitte is a sight to behold.

My impression so far is that the deck is very good against most blue-based decks, but struggles against other stuff. Experimenting with various cards to address these issues isn't a bad thing. The deck is still work-in-progress.


Edit again: They said there were only 2 Eldrazi decks at the event, and they are doing poorly...
Do we know what lists they were on? Aggro/Ramp? Mono C/with colored splashes?


I have been really likely Mystifying Maze; it has done some work for me.
4 mana + tapping seems like a hefty price. Have ETB effects been a problem at some point? Maze triggers them, unlike Haven.

[Krasman]

4 mana + tapping seems like a hefty price. Have ETB effects been a problem at some point? Maze triggers them, unlike Haven.

I am straight up colourless and running a more controlling build so it is a better option than maze of ith.

[Barook]

I am straight up colourless and running a more controlling build so it is a better option than maze of ith.
I can see it being better than Maze of Ith for this deck type since it taps for mana and doesn't leave blockers behind.

Just played another 2 matches against Lands, now with the 3 Karakas + 4 RiP total tech. Overall, the match still feels bad, especially pre-board. Mana denial remains a major bitch to deal with for us (especially Port - fuck Port) and so is fast Marit Lage. Karakas never showed up to the party (but would probably have been irrelevant due to Wasteland/Ports), and the one time I landed RiP it saved my ass since my opponent blew up Chalice on 2, preventing him to get the DD combo back next turn.

What really pulled some weight and downright won 1-2 games was Displacer. They can't Port it and the instant speed prevents any shady Marit Lage tricks EoT or in-combat. Given from what I've seen from various match-ups (Reanimator, Infect, D&T, Lands), upping the Displacer count might be the right thing to do. Matter Reshaper left rather unimpressed lately, especially with the introduction of Factory as back-up beaters. So I go

-2 Matter Reshaper
+2 Eldrazi Displacer

Not an amazing change, but it feels like one step further into the right direction as far as the GW version is concerned. With Cavern, I'm currently running 14 sources that could cast Displacer, which is more than plenty.

[Hopo]

How can you say Jitte is nonsense?
.

I didn't. Put some more thought on reading the sentence.

[.Ix]

I just built the deck and have been goldfishing. Haven't been able to really playtest yet, but it seems Tangle Wire is pretty good in this deck. Has anyone else tried it? I have 4 Wire, 4 Chalice, and 4 Thorn in the deck right now.

[iostream]

I just build the deck and have been goldfishing. Haven't been able to really playtest yet, but it seems Tangle Wire is pretty good in this deck. Has anyone else tried it? I have 4 Wire, 4 Chalice, and 4 Thorn in the deck right now.This actually seems like a pretty decent idea since Eye is also a great target to tap down with Tangle Wire. I wonder if Tangle + 6-8 other spheres + Revokers is enough to keep combo under control without Warping Wail. The dream of playing a fatty or two and then winning by locking the opponent out for 1-2 turns seems worth trying to pursue.

[.Ix]

Yeah, and Endless One lets you can cast a guy with however much mana you have untapped. I think 1-2 Phyrexian Metamorph might be worth running in a deck with Wire, too.

[mistercakes]

it's been a while since i've played stompy lists, but my take on a brew here would be:

4 Mox Diamond
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Trinisphere
4 matter reshaper
4 thought-knot seer
4 reality smasher
4 Crucible of Worlds
1 endbringer
1 worldbreaker
3 smokestack

4 Eye of Ugin
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Wasteland
3 City of Traitors
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Eldrazi Temple
1 Ghost Quarter
4 cavern of souls
1 mishra's factory

sb:
4 thorn of amethyst
1 smokestack
1 all is dust
3 relic of progenitus (probably wrong due to poor interaction with crucible)
2 ratchet bomb
3 ensnaring bridge
1 tabernacle at pendrel vale


i used to play a u/b stax style deck, with a lot of anti creature hate and being reliant on planeswalkers for winning. i got bored with that deck after doing well in a few small tournaments with it and didn't keep up. this was around 5 years ago, so the format is much different. unsurprisingly, turn 1 trinisphere is probably still fine.

i still love playing with smokestack. eldrazi reshaper seems really great with smokestack.

but i feel this deck can run some more consistent draws after a turn 1 trinisphere (t2 tks or smasher will probably end most games)

lemme know if anyone tries this.

-rob


(even though i'll still work on this list, i think the thorn version is better. just adding some diversity)

[wolfstorm]

I don't really like the guy that's covering this match but it certainly shows off the potential power of the list.
http://www.twitch.tv/tuskvision/v/43753669

[Barook]

Eldrazi is currently playing vs. D&T in the finals:

http://www.twitch.tv/southfloridamagic/v/45176236

Edit: And it won. Linked to the archive link for the people who missed it.

[bruizar]

It was a good stream. Chalice for one, Mimic, TKS and Smasher did most of the heavy liftting. All the other cards felt less important.

[Barook]

List will get put up later on their website (?).

One thing worth noting is that he had 2 World Breaker in the sideboard.

Between Cavern and Mox Diamond, I feel there should be room for Displacers. They even mentioned on the stream how the list couldn't handle flyers. It took me a while to notice how Displacer solves quite a few issues the deck has. Getting Displacer active against my D&T opponent wrecked him pretty hard since flyers could get tapped down and the equipment plan went out of the window.

[Patrunkenphat7]

Eldrazi is currently playing vs. D&T in the finals:

http://www.twitch.tv/southfloridamagic/v/45176236

Edit: And it won. Linked to the archive link for the people who missed it.

I only watched the first game so far, but the Eldrazi player had at least 1 Trinisphere in his hand the entire game and just didn't play it and kept passing the turn with mana up while his opponent kept playing 2-drops off 2 lands... That's one of the strangest games of Legacy I've seen; I just don't understand.

[Mr. Froggy]

I like the name Eldrazi Shops, sounds awesome

[Barook]

I only watched the first game so far, but the Eldrazi player had at least 1 Trinisphere in his hand the entire game and just didn't play it and kept passing the turn with mana up while his opponent kept playing 2-drops off 2 lands... That's one of the strangest games of Legacy I've seen; I just don't understand.
The D&T player made some mistakes, too, like not ticking up his Vial. Remember that this isn't necessarily high level play.

What also catched my eye were the to Crucible in the sideboard. They seem pretty narrow in the MD, but it might be a cool SB for the right matches, especially if you run Wasteland AND Mishra's Factory.

For those who run Wasteland: How has it performed for you so far? As good as Wasteland is as a card in Legacy, I'm not exactly a fan of sacrificing mana development in this particular deck, at least in my build.

[Patrunkenphat7]

I like the name Eldrazi Shops, sounds awesome

Do you imagine a Thought-Knot pushing a shopping cart through the produce isle, or is that just me?

[iostream]

The D&T player made some mistakes, too, like not ticking up his Vial. Remember that this isn't necessarily high level play.

What also catched my eye were the to Crucible in the sideboard. They seem pretty narrow in the MD, but it might be a cool SB for the right matches, especially if you run Wasteland AND Mishra's Factory.

For those who run Wasteland: How has it performed for you so far? As good as Wasteland is as a card in Legacy, I'm not exactly a fan of sacrificing mana development in this particular deck, at least in my build.I've trimmed them down to 2, for precisely that reason. I tried flying with 0 for a while, but it went badly - sometimes there are lands you actually do need to blow up. Port, Stage, etc. But I think you are right that you don't want to overload on them.

[ChemicalBurns]

I've trimmed them down to 2, for precisely that reason. I tried flying with 0 for a while, but it went badly - sometimes there are lands you actually do need to blow up. Port, Stage, etc. But I think you are right that you don't want to overload on them.

I tried exactly this. I trimmed them down to zero, but then immediately regretted it. I think 2-3 is a comfortable number, but I feel like the full four is semi-unecessary, unless you're doing some Crucible shenanigans. We mainly want it, as you said iostream, for random utility lands (especially Port, killing these has been incredibly useful at least for me, since this can really delay your threat deployment), but otherwise Factories have been a bit more useful to push those last points of aggression through. At the same time though, to fit all these utility lands in I've cut Urborg, which is kind of depressing, since it can be very strong at times. I might cut the Factories or Caverns down to three to fit at least a singleton in.

Also notable the list featured leaned heavily on Diamond, which is interesting. Really curious on what the full list looks like.

[Barook]

I tried exactly this. I trimmed them down to zero, but then immediately regretted it. I think 2-3 is a comfortable number, but I feel like the full four is semi-unecessary, unless you're doing some Crucible shenanigans. We mainly want it, as you said iostream, for random utility lands (especially Port, killing these has been incredibly useful at least for me, since this can really delay your threat deployment), but otherwise Factories have been a bit more useful to push those last points of aggression through. At the same time though, to fit all these utility lands in I've cut Urborg, which is kind of depressing, since it can be very strong at times. I might cut the Factories or Caverns down to three to fit at least a singleton in.

Also notable the list featured leaned heavily on Diamond, which is interesting. Really curious on what the full list looks like.
Personally, I like 2 Diamonds. 4 without Crucible support results just in too many dead draws imho.

I would never cut down on the Cavern numbers since it gives you so much game vs blue decks it's ridiculous.

You and iostream make good points about Wasteland. I'm considering 2-3 Wastelands. 1 could go into my flex slot (currently Kor Haven), but the other copies would have cut either into my Brushland or Factory count, and I'm not really thrilled about either. I could see cutting two Brushlands, but I don't think I could support RiP in that case anymore.

My proposal: We take a look at all relevant decks and list what are problematic cards and brainstorm how we can/could handle them in the most efficient way without wasting too many slots. The more overlaps, the better. I think that might speed up the streamlining process quite a bit. E.g. RiP was really very good vs Dredge, okay/good vs Lands, meh vs Reanimator (too slow). Leyline might address this match-ups differently, but has its casting cost as a major drawback. Not sure what's the best formating for said list - either by cards and their usefulness in match-ups or match-ups with cards that are relevant in it (problematic cards vs our answers).

For reference: Online (http://www.mtggoldfish.com/metagame/legacy/full#online) and Paper (http://tcdecks.net/metagame.php?format=Legacy&fecha=2016-1) metagame.

[josch6083]

For those who run Wasteland: How has it performed for you so far? As good as Wasteland is as a card in Legacy, I'm not exactly a fan of sacrificing mana development in this particular deck, at least in my build.

I run 4 wastelands in my deck and they are awesome! I tried a list without wastelands and I was not happy with it. Believe it or not. Especially against mana-denying decks the wastelands are very useful. Because

- you got more lands (I got 25 at the moment)
- you can slow them down, if you are ahead
- you can get rid of anoying lands, e.g. karakas, dark depths, rishadan port ...
( - and against burn-decks you can sac to destroy one of your own lands to be protected against price of progress )
- if you play wastelands by yourself, you can be the active player and your opponent has to react. e.g. you can force him to fetch or you can take his lands to be safe of a spell pierce or if you got thorn or trinisphere you can take the 3rd land ...

there are tons of possibilities. It´s definetely worth it. :-)

[Echelon]

- you can slow them down, if you are ahead
- you can get rid of anoying lands, e.g. karakas, dark depths, rishadan port ...


Why would you need to slow down your opponent when you're ahead..? Odds are your opponent is close to death and unable to answer your threats anyway. And Karakas doesn't do shit vs. this deck so why would you waste Wasteland on that..?

I'm not saying Wasteland can't be a card in this deck (it only gains value after you land CotV/Trinisphere), but a part of your logic is a bit off.

[josch6083]

Of course you can use it against karakas. If you got for example a KNS and your opponent a thalia. He can bounce it every turn and block.
And of course I want to slow down my opponent if Im ahead, to keep him of Playing jace to bounce or abrupt decay against our Endless One and so on and on.
And if you dont want to play,then dont! I was just answering the question

[MD.Ghost]

@Cavern
Please let us stop the talk about Cavern...it should be a playset unless you dodge the legacy meta and play only vs non blue stuff... Its fine if your opponents counter Chalice&Co, what will win you the game is an uncounterable Seer, Smasher and all the rest of the Eldrazi Swarm.

@Wasteland
I don't like them in a build which aims for mana development to cast World Breaker, Ulamog etc. - Yes Eldrazi play many ":2: Lands" but as we all mentioned, manadenial is an issue, so you risk to lose a game if you Waste and struggle to close the game. I think for midrange-control, if you have some flex land spots, Mishra's Factory should be better in those builds. For Wasteland i clearly see some usefull scenarios with the Aggro Build, because you can lead with a stream of Mimics/Endless Ones and can attack the development from your opponent so that he can't cast/find answers in time. In this case i would test a build with 3 Wasteland, 2 Mishra, 1 Crucible. Mishra wil ensure that you can still attack/block if the field is cleared or you can't cast Smashers. Crucible can hold all lands together and i like it with Reshaper (common in Aggro Builds) and more important multiple City/Eye. It should work even better if you also use Waste and Mishra.

@Barook: You Message Box is full :tongue:

[RhoxWarMonk]

Really curious on what the full list looks like.

Here's the list Kevin ran in the event. I'm not sure how I feel about the Mox Diamonds and 4 Endbringers feels like a lot to me but obviously he did well with it.

ELDRAZI SHOPS BY KEVIN TOOLAN

Lands (24)
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Eldrazi Temple
3 Eye of Ugin
3 Wasteland
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth

Artifacts (10)
4 Mox diamond
4 Chalice of the Void
2 Trinisphere

Creatures (20)
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Eldrazi Mimic
4 Reality Smasher
4 Endbringer
4 Endless One

Instants + Sorceries (6)
4 Warping Wail
2 Dismember

Sideboard (15)
2 All is Dust
2 Pithing Needle
2 Crucible of worlds
2 Ratchet Bomb
2 Trinisphere
3 Faerie Macabre
2 World Breaker

There's also a good article at SFM about the evolution of the deck and how it got to this point if you are curious.

I've picked up about 80% of this deck over the past week or two, but I really wish I kept the Chalices I had about 3-4 months ago :(

[josch6083]

@Wasteland
I don't like them in a build which aims for mana development to cast World Breaker, Ulamog etc. - Yes Eldrazi play many ":2: Lands" but as we all mentioned, manadenial is an issue, so you risk to lose a game if you Waste and struggle to close the game. I think for midrange-control, if you have some flex land spots, Mishra's Factory should be better in those builds. For Wasteland i clearly see some usefull scenarios with the Aggro Build, because you can lead with a stream of Mimics/Endless Ones and can attack the development from your opponent so that he can't cast/find answers in time. In this case i would test a build with 3 Wasteland, 2 Mishra, 1 Crucible. Mishra wil ensure that you can still attack/block if the field is cleared or you can't cast Smashers. Crucible can hold all lands together and i like it with Reshaper (common in Aggro Builds) and more important multiple City/Eye. It should work even better if you also use Waste and Mishra.


you´re absolutely right. In a list with Ulamog, Kozilek, worldbreaker and maybe the post-ramp it´s nearly impossible to play wastelands effectively!
I play a more aggro-based list! This is my list, then we know, what we´re talking about:

4 Thought Knot seer
4 Reality smasher
4 endless one
4 phyrexian revoker
4 eldrazi mimic
2 endbringer


4 chalice
3 thorn of amethyst
3 warping wail
2 dismember
1 basilisk collar

4 eldrazi temple
4 ancient tomb
4 cavern of souls
4 wasteland
3 ugin y. tomb
3 eye of ugin
2 city of traitors
1 crystal vein

Sideboard: still a work in progress

1 thorn of amethyst
2 spatial contortion
1 dismember
4 faerie macabre
1 surgical extraction (still thinking about this because of chalice, but it´s simply to good to be completely ignored)
1 endbringer (against show and tell matchups)
3 Ratchet bomb (maybe 2 are enough)?
?



in this list, the wastelands have been very very helpful!
But like every decktype, there are tons of possibilities and I don´t see my list as a final word. It´s just my hit on this deck.

[MD.Ghost]

in this list, the wastelands have been very very helpful!
But like every decktype, there are tons of possibilities and I don´t see my list as a final word. It´s just my hit on this deck.

Yes, list looks good so far - Collar+Endbringer seems like a nice tech, even if i still like the Revokers (i played 3 main in my first sketch of the deck) i can also see the Playset (or even a mix, if you cut something else) of Matter Reshaper in this place. Reshaper itself obviously has better synergy with Eye, Temple, Mimic and will work nice with Thorn and can also allow you (if you are lucky enough) to cheat the Collar through a Chalice (want to see the face of your opponent in this case^^).

I think Revoker is better vs Control/Combo (for me a sideboard card now, because both archetypes are not bad for eldrazi) and Reshaper will shine vs BGx or Rx Decks (were Revoker will die to every removal, cant attack and block good enough etc.).

[Polishguy00]

Holy Crap. A buddy and I worked on a list this weekend and thought we were doing something cool. Of course, The Source already has 18 pages on this. A bunch of games were played and I think the biggest change is moving the Warping Wails main. In testing, this deck went 7-5 v. 4c Delver, 5-5 v Storm (ANT) and Lands and 7-3 v. Sneak and Show. An Endbringer locking down Emrakul for a win and a Sower stealing the Dark Depths/Thespian Stage combo were two particularly funny interactions.

Obviously, there has to be some discussion as to why Mind Stone sucks in the previous pages somewhere, but it as actually been good so far. Of course, the testing is only 4 match-ups. Anyway, didn't like the Mox Diamonds due to forcing the deck to discard lands, but here is the list right now for those who might want to look:

I've been calling it MonoDrazi or Mudrazi.

Creatures (25):
4 Mimics
4 thought-Knot
4 Reshapers
4 Smashers
4 Revokers
3 Oblivion Sowers
2 Endbringer

Spells (11):
4 Chalice
3 Mind Stone
2 Ratchet Bomb
1 All is Dust
1 Jitte

Lands (24):
4 Wasteland
4 Eye of Ugin
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Ancient Tomb
3 City of Traitors
2 Cavern of Souls
2 Wastes
1 Karakas

Sideboard (15):
4 Thorns
3 Wails
2 Crucible of Worlds
2 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Defense Grid
2 Pithing Needle

[bruizar]

I'm thinking about Birthing Pod with or without Matter Reshaper.

[MGB]

Does anyone have the Gerry Thompson list that he posts in this article: http://www.starcitygames.com/article/32393_Surviving-In-The-Eldrazi-World.html ?

I don't have premium but I'm curious as to his latest take on the archetype in Legacy.

[Patrunkenphat7]

Does anyone have the Gerry Thompson list that he posts in this article: http://www.starcitygames.com/article/32393_Surviving-In-The-Eldrazi-World.html ?

I don't have premium but I'm curious as to his latest take on the archetype in Legacy.

Creatures (21)
4 Eldrazi Mimic
1 Endbringer
4 Endless One
4 Matter Reshaper
4 Reality Smasher
4 Thought-Knot Seer

Lands (24)
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Cavern of Souls
4 City of Traitors
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Wasteland
3 Eye of Ugin
1 Karakas

Spells (15)
4 Chalice of the Void
2 Grim Monolith
3 Mox Diamond
2 Trinisphere
3 Dismember
1 Umezawa's Jitte

Sideboard
2 Grafdigger's Cage
3 Pithing Needle
3 Thorn of Amethyst
1 Endbringer
2 Faerie Macabre
3 Warping Wail
1 Umezawa's Jitte

[Noc2]

What do you guys think about Eldrazi Obligator? Obligator definitely helps against lands and reanimator, which are bad mathups according to this article: http://southfloridamagic.com/the-evolution-of-eldrazi-shops/

[SFL-Brainstorm]

Article by Kevin with detailed decklist, explanations, and video. Check it out http://southfloridamagic.com/the-evolution-of-eldrazi-shops/

[Fox]

I agree with this sentiment, but not the analysis.

As you pointed out, I take a very dim view of Matter Reshaper. It's a 3/2 for 3. If anyone bothers to blow it up, it replaces itself as a card, and depending on what you flip, it might also replace the mana you spent to cast it. That's great, but in the meantime all you did was play a 3/2. if you're playing Eldrazi lands, maybe it only cost you 1 mana to play, effectively. So, we're talking about a Wild Nacatl or Kird Ape that replaces itself. That's not a bad card, but it's also not near as broken as the other Eldrazi, and so I think it only has a role in balls-to-the-wall aggro lists.

Your example of using Brainstorm to maximize Matter Reshaper is a fine incidental use of the two cards, but a bad basis for a deck. If you didn't have reshaper, you can do exactly the same thing -- put Dreadnought on top -- and just cast the Cloudform. Costs you 1UUU versus 3C, and you didn't have to resolve a creature. More importantly, what kind of deck is going to be running Brainstorm, Cloudform, Dreadnought, and Matter Reshaper, anyway? Not a good one!

The broader point of being able to use Brainstorm to eke value out of a Reshaper that is destined for the bin, however, is a good one. I don't think it's got much combo potential, but if your Reshaper is dying anyway, a Brainstorm can ensure that you get the maximum value -- a card and functionally three mana -- out of the exchange. When you add to that the fact that Reshaper only matters if you're in a really dense aggro deck, I start to ask what kind of aggro decks run Brainstorm, anyway. That'd be Merfolk and Delver, basically. Merfolk has no interest in a 3/2 for 3, but Delver? It might actually be interesting to see if it would be possible to merge Eldrazi aggro and some flavor of Delver.

Yeah post was written pretty quickly, but the main [hidden] point that I think stands. Namely that Matter Reshaper seems to play well with 1-mana spells/effects, if you want to do anything other than blindly draw a card [i.e. misuse it]; so Matter Reshaper + Chalice is tentatively an anti-combo. Maybe I'm missing some 2-drop card that doesn't kill the aggro aspect of these eldrazi decks, and lets you manipulate Reshaper's mechanic...but, I think Reshaper and Chalice are in fundamentally different Eldrazi decks. Lots of Reshaper evaluations didn't take into account it's probably more likely to be found in a colored Eldrazi decks focusing on Thorns/Spheres/Lodestone effects for its prison (if they even want/need such prison aspects), while eschewing chalice. The net effect of Brainstorm/Cloudform/Reshaper shenanigans is you no longer need fetches to totally clear brainstorm-lock, and that is significant since you are going to be using some number of Sol Lands.

As far as the colorless Lists go, I think there is room to begin looking at cards like Null Rod, Phyrexian Revoker, and Uba Mask as real sideboard options. Null Rod probably means Crystal Vein vs Moxen. Uba Mask plays really well Thought-Knot Seer's drawback, and really attacks mechanics that require cards in hand [FoW, Sneak Attack, Show and Tell, miracle triggers]. You're probably not going to get called on 8 critters [seers and mimic] that are quite weak to Torpor Orb, but it would be one more reason to pack backup 2-drops like revoker in the board, easily swapping out for mimics.

[TnA_Will]

anyone got or playing this near columbus ohio? I am wanting to get some playtesting in against this someone piloting it that it is their cup of tea! I think I should do fair to well against it but need the playtesting to know for sure!!

Thanks!

[Barook]

What do you guys think about Eldrazi Obligator? Obligator definitely helps against lands and reanimator, which are bad mathups according to this article: http://southfloridamagic.com/the-evolution-of-eldrazi-shops/
How does it help against EoT Marit Lage --> gib you? Obligator might be okay vs Reanimator, especially when they are on low life due to Reanimate.

I would still rather run Eldrazi Displacer since it's the overall stronger card with more applications in more matches.

[Captain Hammer]

As far as the colorless Lists go, I think there is room to begin looking at cards like Null Rod, Phyrexian Revoker, and Uba Mask as real sideboard options. Null Rod probably means Crystal Vein vs Moxen. Uba Mask plays really well Thought-Knot Seer's drawback, and really attacks mechanics that require cards in hand [FoW, Sneak Attack, Show and Tell, miracle triggers]. You're probably not going to get called on 8 critters [seers and mimic] that are quite weak to Torpor Orb, but it would be one more reason to pack backup 2-drops like revoker in the board, easily swapping out for mimics.

Great ideas. Not sure if they make the cut but dedinitely worth testing. Really like the idea of uba mask. What does your side board look like.

[Barook]

Has anybody extensively playtested vs Shardless BUG yet? Didn't have the chance so far, but I'm interested how it turns out.

I'm actually quite puzzled about the SB. This is my most recent list:

4 Ancient Tomb
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Eldrazi Temple
3 Eye of Ugin
4 Brushland
1 Karakas
4 Mishra's Factory
1 Wasteland

3 Talisman of Unity
2 Mox Diamond

2 Endless One (could become Phyrexian Metamorph, not sure)
4 Eldrazi Displacer
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
2 Conduit of Ruin
2 World Breaker

4 Chalice of the Void
1 Trinisphere
3 Warping Wail
2 All Is Dust
2 Umezawa's Jitte

Sideboard
1 Umezawa's Jitte
3 Ratchet Bomb
3 Thorn of Amethyst
1 All Is Dust
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
2 Karakas
4 Rest in Peace

Ulamog has most like to go. I'm also not sure if a full playset of RiP is really needed - 3 copies might be sufficient.

Aside from Lands being still not a great match-up (and Painter probably being a nightmare, I assume), they're just minor parts of the metagame and I'm not too concerned about them. The more I play the deck, the more well-rounded it feels now. After I've warmed up for Displacer, it answers a whole lot of shit. I'm not sure what particular matches I should improve since the rest is either so-so or great. My SB is also pretty broad.

Grafdigger's Cage? Containment Priest (combo with Displacer as bonus)? More Thorns/3sphere? 4th Warping Wail? More Removal (Banishing Light, Dismember, Spatial Contortion, etc.)?

I'd love some input since I'm probably going to build it on MTGO after the price drop when they ban something from Eldrazi in Modern with SoI.

[bruizar]

saturday i'll be running this list card for card http://southfloridamagic.com/the-evolution-of-eldrazi-shops/

[Fox]

Great ideas. Not sure if they make the cut but dedinitely worth testing. Really like the idea of uba mask. What does your side board look like.

I don't play eldrazi, and would tend towards colored eldrazi (things like Reshaper + Brainstorm is fun, Thought-Knot Seer isn't terrible in Sneak n Show). That said, theorycrafting a colorless sideboard:
-Uba Mask x2
-Revoker x4
-Thorn of Amythest/Sphere of Resistance x3
-Crucible x2
-x4 meta calls, things like: null rod [no mox in the 75], cage, cursed totem, faerie macabre.

I would definitely run at least 1x Tower of the Magistrate in the main, since this deck kinda can't beat batterskull. Beating lifelink in general is hard, but there is always the option to stretch for Tainted Remedy or False Cure effects - these can turn off batterskull, griselbrand, and tendrils.

I'm not a huge fan of All is Dust in the 75 since it is unlikely that a deck that requires a board wipe response doesn't play wasteland. I can also get behind really abandoning non-continuous artifacts and having up to a playset of Null Rods in the board. Winter Orb also deserves serious maindeck consideration - stupid good with eye of ugin, and can play well with wasteland/crucible (untap a sol land, waste a second sol land + replay sol land from yard).

Attacking the modern format with a winter orb effect + eye of ugin will almost certainly call for an immediate ban, which would lower eye prices for Legacy. Sadly both winter and static orbs are not modern legal, but maybe someone can break it with the modern card pool.

[Patrunkenphat7]

Wow Uba Mask is very cool tech. Great find, guys! Maybe I'm just dumb, but I had no idea that card existed. I think Revoker should be maindeck for all who are suggesting it as a SB card. It's so good against so many decks.

[iostream]

One other piece of tech that was suggested earlier but didn't seem to get much traction is Tangle Wire. This is really taking the Workshops analogies seriously :smile:

We have spheres to tap down, and we have early fatties to take advantage of the tempo - why not Tangle Wire? I don't think you can play 4 of them because you don't really want to spend cards to power it out turn 1, and we don't run as many spheres as Workshops itself, so we can't tap down as much stuff. But it seems to be a good cheap way to close out close games. I've enjoyed trying 2 of them in my list, and although I'm not sure they're right, I think we should at least be discussing it.

[iostream]

I think Revoker should be maindeck for all who are suggesting it as a SB card. It's so good against so many decks.
I used to share this opinion but now I'm not so sure. The body is just so bad, you can't cheat it out with Eldrazi mana, and the effect is actually pretty weak in many matchups - just because you have a card that you can name doesn't mean that Needling it is a powerful play. For example, versus D+T, naming Stoneforge Mystic or Aether Vial seems good, but they can just hardcast their equipment/dudes, especially if you're slowing yourself down so much tempo-wise by spending a turn casting Revoker instead of a larger creature. Another good example is Storm - you can name LED and still get blown out by sequences that involve Lotus Petal. The worst part is that the targets you care about the most are all lands - Port and Stage are public enemies 1 and 2 for this deck, and Revoker can't hit them.

I started with 4 and have been trimming them slowly to the point that I wonder whether it's actually worth mainboard slots at all.

[Patrunkenphat7]

I started with 4 and have been trimming them slowly to the point that I wonder whether it's actually worth mainboard slots at all.

Are you running equipment main? I find that 2 Jitte and 1 SoFI in my list really help these guys. That being said, I understand why someone would not want to run Revoker because he is fragile.

[zyren]

Hey guys, new to the forums. I have been brainstorming with this deck in legacy / modern ever since the eldrazi cards came out. You guys have mentioned adding trinisphere, sphere of resistance, and thorn of amethyst, but nobody has mentioned suppression field yet. I find that the ratio of hosing between our opponents to us is far greater for suppression field than trinisphere / thorn of amethyst when considering maindecking them as a ~3 of.

For instance, suppression field really debilitates most matchups mana bases when you consider a lot of decks run 6-10 fetchlands. Not to mention that wastelands / ports really screw with us. Theres a ton of cards that get hosed with this such as aether vial, sensei's divining top, all planeswalkers, etc.

Cards of ours that it hurts the most: eldrazi displacer and endbringer. I am probably the most torn with it messing with eldrazi displacer, but i think that its worth the sacrifice. I wasn't planning on putting endbringer in my list anyway so he will not be missed.

Decklist:

4 Ancient Tomb
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Eldrazi Temple
3 Eye of Ugin
4 Cave of Koilos
1 Karakas
1 City of Traitors
2 Tendo Ice Bridge
2 Plains

3 Mox Diamond

4 Eldrazi Mimic
4 Endless One
3 Matter Reshaper
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher


4 Chalice of the Void
3 Warping Wail

3 Suppression Field
3 Oblivion Ring

Sideboard
3 Thorn of Amethyst
2 All Is Dust
1 Suppression Field
3 sun droplet
2 spatial contortion
1 Karakas
3 Rest in Peace

[Noc2]

How does it help against EoT Marit Lage --> gib you? Obligator might be okay vs Reanimator, especially when they are on low life due to Reanimate.

I would still rather run Eldrazi Displacer since it's the overall stronger card with more applications in more matches.

I didn't put much thought into it. But sill if your opponent doesn't know you are playing obligator, he might be scared of wasteland and make marit lage in his own turn, or am I missing something here? Also obligator gets all kinds of blockers temporarily out of the way (goyf) and helps to finish games before something bad happens.

[MD.Ghost]

@suppression field

I like the card (and yes it hits alot of stuff in legacy!) but i am not sure if it will work well for Eldrazi, especially because you can't use it well with Eldrazi Displacer (great if you Splash white).

For your build, i would tried it this way:
+1 Karakas
+1 City of Traitors
+4 Brushland
-4 Caves of Koilos
-2 Tendo Ice Bridge

+1 World Breaker
+1 Matter Reshaper
+1 Mox Diamond
-3 Oblivion Ring

The question is, is that idea better than playing with Eldrazi Displacer Main (or even mix a real white build with Stoneforge & Equipment etc.).

EDIT:

I think i will give Barooks GW Build (with minor changes) a try for a while. I also thought about the inclusion of Myr Battlesphere at my Ramp build as a target for Eye/Conduit, it can be abused with Eldrazi Displacer too:cool:

[ChemicalBurns]

For those on the GW build (and I've still been testing my RG build - it's quite strong despite its comparative lack of sideboard options other than sweepers) don't forget once you go into green you get access to Krosan Grip as a way to beat Blood Moon. It's also castable off Diamond/Talismans, so even if you dont get to float mana in response to the Moon you can still beat it. It's also just generally a great card - I've been running three in my RG sideboard and have been very happy.

Also, I'm in the process of making a big post on my blog basically compiling all the information about the colourless Eldrazi lists we've had here (I think the splash builds are still up in the air, comparatively, which is sweet). Hopefully it should be helpful. I'll also have a new RG list up soon.

[ChemicalBurns]

Ok, sorry for the double post, but I got too riled up and ended up finishing this whole primer-ish thing.

https://deathandtoolbox.wordpress.com/2016/02/16/the-stomp-box-the-new-kid-on-the-block-eldrazi-stompy/

It only covers the main deck of the colourless aggro versions but since that's what most people seem to be turning to at the moment, I think this will be pretty useful as a jumping-off point for those interested in the deck but unwilling to go through the nineteen pages we have. It also features an example of a template that is useful for attacking certain metagames, which is what you were looking for Barook (but, again, this is only for the main deck of aggro builds).

Yell at me if I've made a mistake or omission or something, and criticism is always welcome.

[Fox]

I would be very cautious when it comes to adding in mana Talismans; the colorless version of this deck is all about the explosive T1,2,3,4 threat train. The mana talisman is something you really can't afford to play (or draw into) in the opening turns, and cards like it will hurt your ability to mulligan. The eldrazi deck with talismans will likely need to look and play more like a Tezzeret list.

When I look at zyren's list I see that it's trying to steal games with Turn 0-1 chalice, and then it's also trying to steal games with Suppression Field (that can't hit the field turn 1 without one of the three mox diamonds). If your goal is to end the game before it starts, that suppression field needs to be first turn playable which is why other decks are using sphere/thorn effects. Long-term it's as though we're using suppression field as a way to double-down on chalice on 1, whereas tangle wires and taxation effects are distinct threats that don't lose utility when that chalice on 1 is dealt with. If the goal is protect the chalice, and you're using Sol Lands, I think you're actually trying to T1 chalice and then slam Guardian Beast/Spectral Guardian turn 2 - because now normal removal is useless (no wear, grudge, decay...and also they need a 2 mana spell to kill the gaurdian that also isn't abrupt decay). I hope that super all-in example proves a useful metaphor when it comes to asking "is this a good prison addition to a chalice deck?" [to clarify: this isn't good, b/c it is only good once you have a chalice, and that's kind of the case with suppression field by itself]

final note: just to re-hash, you probably don't want to run matter reshaper with chalice.

[zyren]

@suppression field

I like the card (and yes it hits alot of stuff in legacy!) but i am not sure if it will work well for Eldrazi, especially because you can't use it well with Eldrazi Displacer (great if you Splash white).

...

The question is, is that idea better than playing with Eldrazi Displacer Main (or even mix a real white build with Stoneforge & Equipment etc.).



I've been wanting to go WG for world breaker. Not sure if i want to go 4 mox diamond, even though it makes it easier to play t1 suppression field. Overall i like your suggestions.

What are our bad matchups where we can analyze suppression field?

For lands, which has been mentioned a decent amount, i think suppression field might be better. Their lock engine (wasteland, port) requires way too much mana to use effectively, they need 2 more mana for thespians sage, and a decent amount of their lands are fetches, which will stall them from winning and let us keep our tempo.

[Fox]

First and foremost, you probably need to scoop the moment lands shows the ability to play 2 wastelands per turn with recursion - about the only way you get out of that hypothetical are Suppression Field, Sacred Ground, and Ankh of Mishra. If a deck can only play 1 wasteland per turn, you want those 2x crucibles as part of your sideboard plan. You could go for suppression field here for wastelands and ports, but it's also just easier to slam Winter Orb (and if they want to waste you, you have crucible for double untap). Winter Orb won't get you out of the nightmare scenario (double waste + recursion), but very few decks can compete with thorn/sphere effects and only 1 untap per turn (especially when you're the one who has eye of ugin). You will lose a game to lands every so often, but you're going to gain so many percentage points vs the rest of the field (especially in chalice mirrors where they can't go Eye for an Eye...of Ugin).

A karakas here or there is fine, as is the occasional displacer (played off of cavern, a 1-2x karakas, or mox - only), and you can conceivably mull to RiP for free post-board wins...but other than that, I'd suggest really focusing on your 2 mana colorless prison.

[Patrunkenphat7]

Ok, sorry for the double post, but I got too riled up and ended up finishing this whole primer-ish thing.

https://deathandtoolbox.wordpress.com/2016/02/16/the-stomp-box-the-new-kid-on-the-block-eldrazi-stompy/

It only covers the main deck of the colourless aggro versions but since that's what most people seem to be turning to at the moment, I think this will be pretty useful as a jumping-off point for those interested in the deck but unwilling to go through the nineteen pages we have. It also features an example of a template that is useful for attacking certain metagames, which is what you were looking for Barook (but, again, this is only for the main deck of aggro builds).

Yell at me if I've made a mistake or omission or something, and criticism is always welcome.

This is awesome, thanks for doing this!!

I built this deck online to test and have already played the mirror 3 times. I hope everyone gets their City of Traitors if they don't already have them...

[twndomn]

People kept telling me Eldrazi is a more consistent version of MUD, that's just flat out wrong.

There's nothing about the deck makes me feel like MUD, when you go: Eldrazi temple -> free Mimic.

That play to me feels more like, 0 CMC artifacts -> free Frogmite.

I'm more keen on Coercive Portal. It feels like Thoughtcast.

[Patrunkenphat7]

People kept telling me Eldrazi is a more consistent version of MUD, that's just flat out wrong.

There's nothing about the deck makes me feel like MUD, when you go: Eldrazi temple -> free Mimic.

That play to me feels more like, 0 CMC artifacts -> free Frogmite.

I'm more keen on Coercive Portal. It feels like Thoughtcast.

Man, you need to test with and against this deck if you think Mimic feels like Frogmite... I have played a ton of Legacy, something like 25+ unique archetypes in sanctioned tournaments, and I can comfortably say I've never played a stompy-style or MUD-style deck anywhere near as good as this deck.

[Admiral_Arzar]

Man, you need to test with and against this deck if you think Mimic feels like Frogmite... I have played a ton of Legacy, something like 25+ unique archetypes in sanctioned tournaments, and I can comfortably say I've never played a stompy-style or MUD-style deck anywhere near as good as this deck.

The only Stompy deck that measures up to (and possibly beats) this one in consistency is Sylvan Plug, and that deck gets to play a green consistency engine similar to the one in Elves.

[civet five]

People kept telling me Eldrazi is a more consistent version of MUD, that's just flat out wrong.

There's nothing about the deck makes me feel like MUD, when you go: Eldrazi temple -> free Mimic.

That play to me feels more like, 0 CMC artifacts -> free Frogmite.

It's Eye that gives free Mimic, but regardless I think you're looking at it the wrong way. Mimic is more like Myr Enforcer - it comes down cheap and early and swings as a 4/4 or 5/5 as early as turn 2.


Man, you need to test with and against this deck if you think Mimic feels like Frogmite... I have played a ton of Legacy, something like 25+ unique archetypes in sanctioned tournaments, and I can comfortably say I've never played a stompy-style or MUD-style deck anywhere near as good as this deck.

Agree. This deck in most of its forms seems pretty consistent for a Stompy shell, because there really isn't any other deck that gets to play 16 Sol Lands

[Khamul]

Ok, sorry for the double post, but I got too riled up and ended up finishing this whole primer-ish thing.

https://deathandtoolbox.wordpress.com/2016/02/16/the-stomp-box-the-new-kid-on-the-block-eldrazi-stompy/

It only covers the main deck of the colourless aggro versions but since that's what most people seem to be turning to at the moment, I think this will be pretty useful as a jumping-off point for those interested in the deck but unwilling to go through the nineteen pages we have. It also features an example of a template that is useful for attacking certain metagames, which is what you were looking for Barook (but, again, this is only for the main deck of aggro builds).

Yell at me if I've made a mistake or omission or something, and criticism is always welcome.

Nice primer, and creative Deck name :) I like how you carefully describe every card.
I just wanted to point out that Conduit of Ruin can't search for Reality Smasher or Endbringer. You write about being able to search them in a more aggro variant, but his effect says with CMC 7 or greater.

[RhoxWarMonk]

Ok, sorry for the double post, but I got too riled up and ended up finishing this whole primer-ish thing.

https://deathandtoolbox.wordpress.com/2016/02/16/the-stomp-box-the-new-kid-on-the-block-eldrazi-stompy/

It only covers the main deck of the colourless aggro versions but since that's what most people seem to be turning to at the moment, I think this will be pretty useful as a jumping-off point for those interested in the deck but unwilling to go through the nineteen pages we have. It also features an example of a template that is useful for attacking certain metagames, which is what you were looking for Barook (but, again, this is only for the main deck of aggro builds).

Yell at me if I've made a mistake or omission or something, and criticism is always welcome.

Great job, really enjoyed the read.

Slowly gathering up our colorless friends to give this some playtesting, should be interesting to see what kind of decks spawn from our new Eldrazi overlords lol :tongue: There seems to be a lot of variance and a lot of really good idea's from people who are actively working on this deck. Nice to see, its' not all that often that a new deck that really looks legit shows up in Legacy.

[ChemicalBurns]

I would be very cautious when it comes to adding in mana Talismans; the colorless version of this deck is all about the explosive T1,2,3,4 threat train. The mana talisman is something you really can't afford to play (or draw into) in the opening turns, and cards like it will hurt your ability to mulligan. The eldrazi deck with talismans will likely need to look and play more like a Tezzeret list.

When I look at zyren's list I see that it's trying to steal games with Turn 0-1 chalice, and then it's also trying to steal games with Suppression Field (that can't hit the field turn 1 without one of the three mox diamonds). If your goal is to end the game before it starts, that suppression field needs to be first turn playable which is why other decks are using sphere/thorn effects. Long-term it's as though we're using suppression field as a way to double-down on chalice on 1, whereas tangle wires and taxation effects are distinct threats that don't lose utility when that chalice on 1 is dealt with. If the goal is protect the chalice, and you're using Sol Lands, I think you're actually trying to T1 chalice and then slam Guardian Beast/Spectral Guardian turn 2 - because now normal removal is useless (no wear, grudge, decay...and also they need a 2 mana spell to kill the gaurdian that also isn't abrupt decay). I hope that super all-in example proves a useful metaphor when it comes to asking "is this a good prison addition to a chalice deck?" [to clarify: this isn't good, b/c it is only good once you have a chalice, and that's kind of the case with suppression field by itself]

final note: just to re-hash, you probably don't want to run matter reshaper with chalice.

In aggro lists, hell yes, by far you do not want durdly Talismans, you have a saturation of two-drops all ready to play on the first turn. In coloured builds though, although Talismans feel lacklustre, I've actually been surprisingly satisfied with them as fixing as long as you intend to play a longer game, as they're a compromise between the card disadvantage of Diamond and the need for reliable coloured mana.

Also Reshaper is a "may" so you can just draw the Chalice and cast it. Not amazing, but not the worst either.


Nice primer, and creative Deck name :) I like how you carefully describe every card.
I just wanted to point out that Conduit of Ruin can't search for Reality Smasher or Endbringer. You write about being able to search them in a more aggro variant, but his effect says with CMC 7 or greater.

Yeap I'm wrong. Guess I was getting my Eyes and Conduits mixed up, or something. I'll edit this to be correct.


People kept telling me Eldrazi is a more consistent version of MUD, that's just flat out wrong.

There's nothing about the deck makes me feel like MUD, when you go: Eldrazi temple -> free Mimic.

That play to me feels more like, 0 CMC artifacts -> free Frogmite.

I'm more keen on Coercive Portal. It feels like Thoughtcast.

You're not completely wrong, in that the deck has the capability for some Affinity-esque draws with Eye, but the deck can also play like typical Stompy shell just casting Chalice and big beefers. It can also play somewhat MUD-ish by having inevitability via Eye of Ugin. This multi-pronged game plan gives the deck a lot of avenues to victory unlike other Stompy lists who play more linearly. I wouldn't pigeonhole it into being just like Affinity, although it can have draws where it resembles it. However the deck can do much, much more.

Also yeah, I've been running Portal in the grind slots of my sideboard as a non-creature draw engine already. It's been great!

[mistercakes]

playtested a few games tonight. endbringer was surprisingly very good vs marit lage.

[MD.Ghost]

Ok, sorry for the double post, but I got too riled up and ended up finishing this whole primer-ish thing.

https://deathandtoolbox.wordpress.com/2016/02/16/the-stomp-box-the-new-kid-on-the-block-eldrazi-stompy/

Yell at me if I've made a mistake or omission or something, and criticism is always welcome.

Good article! It should cover well the first steps with Eldrazi (the common colorless, aggressive Builds). I would like too see more with the different brews around, Midrange, Ramp, Splashes etc.

---------------

@GW Build: Eldrazi Displacer overperformed for me yesterday vs Sneak&Show, i was able to win the game with it vs Grisel&Emrakul on the field! Still i lost one game vs Blood Moon, only had Mox on the field and can't use (Displacer also on the field!) colorless mana in that situation. So i still find it right to play with Talisman (in midrange and ramp). The current version from Barook (as i mentioned, i test them as well now) includes 3 Talisman, 2 Mox - i also added 1 Wastes at Side since the first games vs Dragon Stompy (i formyself will not accept an easy lose vs Painter/Dragon Stompy etc.) and besides i lost some Games vs Moon, overall i am still positive vs this annoying Hate! I can't imagine that most builds work well in those situations besides the lucky "Turn 2, Seer, exile Moon in Hand" dreamland.

@Endbringer: Yes, if you can't use white for Displacer, Endbringer is a valid option vs Show&Tell, Lands etc. it would be funny if you can find room for 2 Lightning Greaves for stuff like, T1 Greaves, T2 Seer equip the hasty Boots or cast giant Endless One with Haste or simply upgrade Endbringer to an "Planeswalker" (Haste&Shroud will work wonders vs his "normally he is very very slow" performance), because his abilities are overall good, especially that you can use them at your and your opponents turn. If i would build an colorless build (even the Mimic-Aggro-Stuff) i would include 2-3 Endbringers in my pile of 75 cards.

EDIT:

@checking tcdecks for "Rogue" decks reveal some Eldrazi (we need to work to get our own section!)

1 from 28: http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=19588&iddeck=149092
Nice Midrange Mix, featuring Mimics for faster starts and many other good stuff like: Displacer!, Revoker, Endbringer, Ulamog, 2 Karakas main and Plains for nice Sideboard-Stuff! The core of the build should cover a lot of annoying situations and the only add i would snap add is Crucible (because the Build also runs 4 Wastelands) - interesting to see no City of Traitors!

Played a bit with the linked White-Build (see above). I like it so far! I would made some early (and only very small) changes so far:
Main: -1 Waste , -2 Bombs, -1 Ulamog, -2 Revoker, -1 Thorn (he used 61 cards)
Main: +2 Mishra, +1 Crucible, +1 Metamorph, +2 Endless One (overall slightly more stable and aggressive)
Side: -2 Trinisphere, -1 Null Rod, -3 Spatial Contortion (don't see the need of a spot removal that don't kill Gofy/Angler/Smasher)
Side: +1 Thalia, +1 Revoker, +2 Bomb, +1 Maze, +1 Priest (unsure if the white build needs revoker and stuff like maze, but Thalia and more Priest should work well)

1 from 32: http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=19547&iddeck=148785
Clearly more aggressive, Mimics, many Stompy Lands, no Manastones and 2 Endbringers as top end. I don't like Relic at Side, but deck&pilote sill performed well enough.

6 from 19: http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=19560&iddeck=148886
Overall colorless and aggressive, 1 Metamorph (like it!), also packs a pair of Endbringers and also Equipment (Jitte, Sword of FaI), very good Graveyard Hate here and should be well equiped to fight the mirror (Endbringers, Dismember, Equipment).

[bruizar]

I think SoFaI is a mistake and should be SoLaS which I will be playing instead. It gives you more inevitability against lands/reanimator with Faerie Macabre, and solves batterskull/stoneforge mystic. It also helps get you past Griselbrand for instance (Although this won't save you unless you have world breaker in play somehow). The life gain helps offset Ancient Tomb.

SoFaI is good in the matchups where the deck already performs.

[ChemicalBurns]

Good article! It should cover well the first steps with Eldrazi (the common colorless, aggressive Builds). I would like too see more with the different brews around, Midrange, Ramp, Splashes etc.

---------------

@GW Build: Eldrazi Displacer overperformed for me yesterday vs Sneak&Show, i was able to win the game with it vs Grisel&Emrakul on the field! Still i lost one game vs Blood Moon, only had Mox on the field and can't use (Displacer also on the field!) colorless mana in that situation. So i still find it right to play with Talisman (in midrange and ramp). The current version from Barook (as i mentioned, i test them as well now) includes 3 Talisman, 2 Mox - i also added 1 Wastes at Side since the first games vs Dragon Stompy (i formyself will not accept an easy lose vs Painter/Dragon Stompy etc.) and besides i lost some Games vs Moon, overall i am still positive vs this annoying Hate! I can't imagine that most builds work well in those situations besides the lucky "Turn 2, Seer, exile Moon in Hand" dreamland.

I think I've been mentioned this, but I've been super happy with Krosan Grip in the sideboard; just unconterably getting the annoying Moon off the table feels great. But yes, we need Talisman/Mox Diamond for this, but as you said, Talisman's ability to still cast our colourless stuff is great.


EDIT:

@checking tcdecks for "Rogue" decks reveal some Eldrazi (we need to work to get our own section!)

1 from 28: http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=19588&iddeck=149092
Nice Midrange Mix, featuring Mimics for faster starts and many other good stuff like: Displacer!, Revoker, Endbringer, Ulamog, 2 Karakas main and Plains for nice Sideboard-Stuff! The core of the build should cover a lot of annoying situations and the only add i would snap add is Crucible (because the Build also runs 4 Wastelands) - interesting to see no City of Traitors!

This list is pretty compelling. No City is obviously odd, and I think the manabase should use Brushlands too (basically superior to Plains other than being Wastelandable, but making colourless cards castable and giving access to the almighty Endbringer seems good) though it's nice to see Talisman doing work here too. I also really like Revoker and Displacer in the deck - feels like when I Flickerwisp Revoker in D&T to change targets. Love it. White sideboard cards also seem strong to cover Reanimator and S&S, though yeah, as you said, Contortion I'm really not a fan of.

Also, updates on RG build:

Creatures: (18)
4 Endless One
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
3 World Breaker
2 Conduit of Ruin
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger

Non-Creature Spells: (17)
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Talisman of Impulse
3 Trinisphere
3 Punishing Fire
2 Kozilek's Return
1 Sylvan Library

Lands: (25)
4 Grove of the Burnwillows
4 Karplusan Forest
4 Ancient Tomb
2 City of Traitors
3 Eye of Ugin
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Cavern of Souls

Sideboard: (15)
3 Tormod's Crypt
3 Krosan Grip
2 Dismember
2 Kozilek's Return
2 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Warping Wail
1 Sylvan Library

As I've been mentioning, Grip from the sideboard is insane. Also yeah, Kozilek's Return makes a lot of the fair creature matchups very easily winnable, especially since I have PFire in the main too - which might be overload though. This list doesn't effectively address Lands, 4c Loam and some other unfair matchups though (which the white splash really helps with) but against a lot of fair matchups you can really sit back and relax, develop your mana and reach the Eye of Ugin end game pretty easily. Although I think GW is better placed overall because its access to combo disruption, RG can really grind some fair decks apart and really beats up on D&T, which I feel is quite unfavourable for normal builds.

Also - have we considered any other possible splash builds? I've really been curious about blue builds, actually. UR (like the Modern PT list) could be strong with Vile Aggregate for a lot of aggression, as well as potential burn (Magma Jet, etc.) and countermagic (Flusterstorm, I guess, since we can't run Force :(). Drowner of Hope is also likely to be a very strong card that has much more immediate board impact than the colourless go-to six drop of Endless One. UG could also be potentially strong with both Drowner and World Breaker. I'm not sure about this, and GW and RG seem like the most obvious splashes to start with since the mana bases fit neatly and have relatively strong options to take the deck, but I might go back to the brewhouse and see if these weirder builds have merit.

[Delvis]

I think SoFaI is a mistake and should be SoLaS which I will be playing instead. It gives you more inevitability against lands/reanimator with Faerie Macabre, and solves batterskull/stoneforge mystic. It also helps get you past Griselbrand for instance (Although this won't save you unless you have world breaker in play somehow). The life gain helps offset Ancient Tomb.

SoFaI is good in the matchups where the deck already performs.

I agree with this, although pro-red is sweet for helping Revokers and Mimics dodge Bolt. I think lifegain is really important to get out of your Sword, so I would be eyeing SoLaS and SoWaP for that reason. I actually kind of like SoWaP a little more, since the Stompy lock elements of this deck (and the Wastelands) tend to strand cards in our opponents' hand, plus it gives pro-red. Unfortunately, we've tested Swords and found them lacking. I still feel like I want to have one in the main deck because my Revokers seem puny, but I haven't piloted it in a match yet so I'll default to my teammates' judgment.

[T-101]

I agree with this, although pro-red is sweet for helping Revokers and Mimics dodge Bolt. I think lifegain is really important to get out of your Sword, so I would be eyeing SoLaS and SoWaP for that reason. I actually kind of like SoWaP a little more, since the Stompy lock elements of this deck (and the Wastelands) tend to strand cards in our opponents' hand, plus it gives pro-red. Unfortunately, we've tested Swords and found them lacking. I still feel like I want to have one in the main deck because my Revokers seem puny, but I haven't piloted it in a match yet so I'll default to my teammates' judgment.

Protecting Revokers from Bolt seems pretty irrelevant to me. Revoker really only matters for decks with lots of non-land activated abilities (DnT, Storm, Sneak Attack/Griselbrand, Planeswalkers).

Jitte has been awesome for me. Lifegain is huge, and Jitte thrashes creatures. One hit will kill Delvers/Deathrites/almost everything from DnT, and make even Goyf/Delve guys managable if you have another creature.

Also important is that Jitte has often only required 2 lands to cast and equip. The "sneaky Jitte" is easy to pull off with this deck. That is, where you cast it and equip it in one turn, so your opponent is caught off guard.

[Delvis]

Protecting Revokers from Bolt seems pretty irrelevant to me. Revoker really only matters for decks with lots of non-land activated abilities (DnT, Storm, Sneak Attack/Griselbrand, Planeswalkers).

Jitte has been awesome for me. Lifegain is huge, and Jitte thrashes creatures. One hit will kill Delvers/Deathrites/almost everything from DnT, and make even Goyf/Delve guys managable if you have another creature.

Also important is that Jitte has often only required 2 lands to cast and equip. The "sneaky Jitte" is easy to pull off with this deck. That is, where you cast it and equip it in one turn, so your opponent is caught off guard.

Yeah, we are playing Jitte in our list, too. It's definitely the Level 0 equipment; that is, if you're playing any equipment at all, you should start with Jitte.

Protecting Revoker from Bolt was more for game 1. As you said, it's generally subpar against decks playing Bolt, although it can be quite good sometimes (DRS comes to mind). But if you're playing it in the main 60, being able to protect it from Bolt makes it a little more resilient in those matchups.

Jitte has been testing well enough for us. You can equip it to a larger creature first to get the first pair of counters, then move it onto the Revoker, and now the Revoker is protected against Bolt, as well as offering a great deal of board control and lifegain to offset Tombs. The cost also aligns superbly with the mana base, as you said.

[Barook]

I cut one Rest in Peace from my Sideboard for a second Containment Priest.

Played 3 matches against Sneak & Show since my opponent wanted to test against Eldrazi as well. Parting words of my opponent: "I hope you don't share this list. :) I can't win." :laugh:

Sometimes they just have the nuts (and my opponent played JMS for whatever reason, where it was actually kind of annoying in this match-up, compared to Miracles), but overall, the match feels really in favor of a white-based build.

Between multiple Karakas, 4 Displacer (+2 Containment Priest post-SB) - which all utterly wreck Sneak & Show, the combination with Chalice, TKS and post-SB Thorns is bad new for them. I like it alot.

I might move a 2nd Karakas to the MD in my flex land spot and leave the third in the board, opening up another SB slot.

[Fox]

I don't know how much you want to get into a Jitte fight with DnT; if they sniff out your lack of karakas, it is technically correct for them to leave Thalia in purely for Jitte->first strike->karakas bounce->re-vial thalia. It is generally most correct for DnT to understand that vs Eldrazi they are actually playing reanimator, and Batterskull is their Griselbrand - and once your opponent understands that (or the jitte-bounce-vial backup plan), this isn't a game Eldrazi is winning. In the absence of DnT punting the game away, you're wanting a package like this to stand a chance: Null Rod x2-4, wastelands (if budget winter orb stops porting), and crucible. Rarely against good DnT piloting, you will steal 1-Vial games by getting an explosive enough start to force vial to x=3 (panic flickerwhisp) - if it stays on x=2 you've probably lost without a specific hate package.
Note: this is another reason I advocate revoker as this matchup is actually terrible for eldrazi; but if you do revoker you can't afford to remove chalice even though they have flickerwhisp (need to tax their resources to swords a revoker).

[Delvis]

@Fox I'm curious - what list of Eldrazi are you basing this analysis on? I feel like, depending on the list, the match looks different, so I want to know where you're coming from.

[Fox]

@Delvis I believe it was South Florida Magic finals from 3 or so days ago [DnT vs colorless eldrazi] - it's an impressive case study (especially game 3) in how losing the game as DnT vs Eldrazi is basically completely up to you [DnT] in the absence of the most timely Thought-Knot Seer. Besides this I've watched a number of people piloting batterskull decks (I'd say SFM decks but s. florida magic mentioned earlier will confuse I think). Experience it for yourself though, watch those decks lose b/c they don't understand they're now a reanimator deck (for purpose of playing vs Eldrazi) - once you see lines of play from that perspective of thalia/jitte/karakas = elesh norn and batterskull=grisel, you'll see just how unwinnable the matches can be for eldrazi.

From the SFM finals pay attention to misused wastelands of DnT, punting vial up to x=3 in many games, port mismanagement, missing key opportunity to assemble thalia/jitte/karakas lines. On the part of the eldrazi player you will see a hero crucible, and more importantly not throwing away wastelands (these are reserved for ports primarily, then karakas - and correctly almost never wasting tapped enemy wastelands). As well as Eldrazi played, DnT pilot was the only one who could cause himself to lose, and did. It's not to say DnT was a bad player, but he clearly didn't understand he had to play like a combo pilot.

Port/wasteland decks are very dangerous to eldrazi, and non-stop porting after an uncontested turn one vial is probably scoop-worthy.

[Barook]

I don't know how much you want to get into a Jitte fight with DnT; if they sniff out your lack of karakas, it is technically correct for them to leave Thalia in purely for Jitte->first strike->karakas bounce->re-vial thalia. It is generally most correct for DnT to understand that vs Eldrazi they are actually playing reanimator, and Batterskull is their Griselbrand - and once your opponent understands that (or the jitte-bounce-vial backup plan), this isn't a game Eldrazi is winning. In the absence of DnT punting the game away, you're wanting a package like this to stand a chance: Null Rod x2-4, wastelands (if budget winter orb stops porting), and crucible. Rarely against good DnT piloting, you will steal 1-Vial games by getting an explosive enough start to force vial to x=3 (panic flickerwhisp) - if it stays on x=2 you've probably lost without a specific hate package.
Note: this is another reason I advocate revoker as this matchup is actually terrible for eldrazi; but if you do revoker you can't afford to remove chalice even though they have flickerwhisp (need to tax their resources to swords a revoker).
Displacer removes their equipped creature. It's really a major nuisance for them that demands answers, be it StP or Revoker.

Thalia chumpblocking with Jitte also doesn't work too well if you smash in with an equipped Reality Smasher (not that unlikely, actually). If you draw them, you could also use your own Karakas copies to bounce their Thalia to prevent shenanigans.

Batterskull gets also solved by Displacer, like many other problematic creatures. I could see Krosan Grip, which ChemicalBurns mentioned, doing some work here as well. I'll try one copy in my freed up SB slot and see how it goes.

[bruizar]

I cut one Rest in Peace from my Sideboard for a second Containment Priest.

Played 3 matches against Sneak & Show since my opponent wanted to test against Eldrazi as well. Parting words of my opponent: "I hope you don't share this list. :) I can't win." :laugh:

Sometimes they just have the nuts (and my opponent played JMS for whatever reason, where it was actually kind of annoying in this match-up, compared to Miracles), but overall, the match feels really in favor of a white-based build.

Between multiple Karakas, 4 Displacer (+2 Containment Priest post-SB) - which all utterly wreck Sneak & Show, the combination with Chalice, TKS and post-SB Thorns is bad new for them. I like it alot.

I might move a 2nd Karakas to the MD in my flex land spot and leave the third in the board, opening up another SB slot.

please do tell us how those matches went if you still know the play by plays :)

[Fox]

Thalia chumpblocking with Jitte also doesn't work too well if you smash in with an equipped Reality Smasher (not that unlikely, actually). If you draw them, you could also use your own Karakas copies to bounce their Thalia to prevent shenanigans.
If they pull of the thalia trick one time and have 1 life left, you lose. Thalia vial'd back in re-equip on their turn, Thalia with first strike kill your trampler if you attack [and it won't deal any dmg], and provide a 4 life buffer before non-first strike dmg is applied.

They can tutor equipment whereas you cannot. That said, a trampling jitte will always win, a displacer will always win, and a found karakas puts them on bskull only. They do maindeck revokers though, and life doesn't matter to combo as long as they have 1 left.

[bruizar]

If they pull of the thalia trick one time and have 1 life left, you lose. Thalia vial'd back in re-equip on their turn, Thalia with first strike kill your trampler if you attack [and it won't deal any dmg], and provide a 4 life buffer before non-first strike dmg is applied.

They can tutor equipment whereas you cannot. That said, a trampling jitte will always win, a displacer will always win, and a found karakas puts them on bskull only. They do maindeck revokers though, and life doesn't matter to combo as long as they have 1 left.

Except for ad nauseam. Never underestimate a clock with some disruption against a storm deck

[Fox]

Except for ad nauseam. Never underestimate a clock with some disruption against a storm deck
Think you've misread, the point I make is that DnT (and batterskull decks in general) - piloted like combo - is a very bad matchup for eldrazi.
The general rules for DnT are:
-don't keep opening hand without some amount of vial/sfm/port. god hands are ok too, thalia/karakas/jitte and wasteland overload for example
-don't go all-in (tapping lands for SFM) to lose bksull to Seer; this should all be done out of eldrazi sorcery speed, even if SFM is exiled (obviously if SFM is last in hand you can vial in and fail to find in response to seer)
-don't tick vial to x=3 unless you're crushing eldrazi with double port, have second vial, or absolutely have to so as not to die.
-don't block unless it is profitable, or you will die b/c you don't. (there is an argument for chumping 5/5 mimic at higher life totals, but keeping revoker alive naming endbrindger is huge)

A fringe case from the match itself: DnT has wasteland and port, eldrazi has tomb/eye/wasteland (tapped) at end of DnT's turn. Port the tomb on upkeep, always. Hardcasting flickerwhisp [preserving vial on 2] is more important than port, and eldrazi might slip-up and waste port losing 3 mana on their turn, and topping out at 4 (eye + sol land from hand).

[Barook]

please do tell us how those matches went if you still know the play by plays :)
No problem, got the replays on Cockatrice, which also gives me some interesting insights on his draws:

G1: He plays S&T, I Wail, then follow up with Smasher and next turn TKS with him having no business left.
G2: He S&Ts in Emrakul, I put my Displacer in play, then play Karakas next turn. Follow up with Conduit and World Breaker killing his red source.

Match 2:
G1: I play Eldrazi Temple and discard Cavern to Mox Diamond for T1 Chalice @1, but it meets a FoW. Opp plays S&T, puts in Griselbrand, me World Breaker. He draws 7 cards and hits exactly what he needs - a second red source, Sneak Attack and 2 Emrakul to get past my Displacer. Bad luck. I die.
G2: I get Chalice @1 with Tomb. T2, I aggressively jam down Priest since I don't really have much aggro otherwise. He plays Jace, which dies to a pumped 3/3 Factory while Priest continues to beat face. My Reality Smasher draws out a force, so another swing for 4 with Factory and Priest. World Breaker for red source, then swing for 4. My opponent concedes.
G3: T1 Tomb, Chalice. My opponent opens with a T2 Jace (ugh). I play Temple and T2 TKS taking Emrakul. TKS gets Jace-bounced. I play Talisman and Cavern for another TKS taking Griselbrand. He gets the perfect Jacestorm into S&T, Emrakul and Omniscience. I die while tapped out, with Wail in hand. Fuck you, Jace.

Match 3:
He wins the die roll this time.
G1: I mull to 6, but keep an excellent hand with Tomb, Chalice and Karakas. My T1 Chalice gets pierced. He play T3 Jace (seriously, how many Jaces does he play?). I follow up with T3 Conduit, fetching World Breaker (Karakas still hidden) - Conduit gets Force'd. My opponent plans to go for Sneak Attack, but World Breaker kills his red source. I draw Wasteland for his Tomb (okay draw, but not really relevant) while World Breaker kills his Jace. He cantrips to setup another Sneak Attack, but once he played it, I activate Eye of Ugin eot to fetch another World Breaker to kill it. He plays Jace, but doesn't find anything of relevance. He concedes. Theoretically, he could have forced my second Breaker and Bounced my first one, but I had so much mana at this point that I could have recurred and recast the World Breakers over and over to completely wreck his mana.
G2: I try to be fancy and play T1 Mox into Cavern naming Human for T1 uncounterable Priest to get the beats down. I play T2 TKS, to which he responds with Kozilek's Return, killing my Priest. I take Through the Breach, since he was threatening Emrakul in two turns, leaving Jace to be cast next turn. Jace fateseals himself (to put him out of TKS range? :confused:), but I retaliate with a Smasher, killing Jace and beating his face for 4. He follows up with Sneak attack while I play Karakas, swining for 9, putting him to 5. Or course he topdecks the second red source, but being at 16 life and having enough permanents to not give a fuck about flying noodle monster beats, he concedes.

Looking back, the only times I lost were when my opponent went full lucksack.

[Delvis]

@Delvis I believe it was South Florida Magic finals from 3 or so days ago [DnT vs colorless eldrazi]

If it's the list posted at the URL that's been shared fifteen times in this thread by random people popping in from reddit (http://southfloridamagic.com/the-evolution-of-eldrazi-shops/), then I can see where that deck would have issues with D&T.

My build skips Moxen, Trinisphere, & maindeck Dismember, and plays fewer Endbringers main. Mox seems bad against D&T, because pitching a land makes you more vulnerable to Port and Wasteland, and they can name Mox with Revoker. It also gets hit by Thalia. Trinisphere can be good but is most likely bad, unless you can keep Vial off the table/stuck under a Revoker.

In contrast, I play maindeck Revoker, which does yeoman's work against them. I also play Metamorph which adds to my answers to Batterskull. Fewer Endbringers hurts a little because the card is effective at stopping Germ tokens and picking off most of their creatures, but is also almost guaranteed to be named by their Revoker. If you can't kill it, you've got 4 dead cards (in the SoFloMa list).

Wasteland is also useful against them, just adding to the ways you can shut down that Thalia combo you mentioned.

I'm also still thinking of trying out a miser's copy of Tower of the Magistrate in an effort to add percentage points in these equipment matchups.

[Fox]

If it's the list posted at the URL that's been shared fifteen times in this thread by random people popping in from reddit (http://southfloridamagic.com/the-evolution-of-eldrazi-shops/), then I can see where that deck would have issues with D&T.

My build skips Moxen, Trinisphere, & maindeck Dismember, and plays fewer Endbringers main. Mox seems bad against D&T, because pitching a land makes you more vulnerable to Port and Wasteland, and they can name Mox with Revoker. It also gets hit by Thalia. Trinisphere can be good but is most likely bad, unless you can keep Vial off the table/stuck under a Revoker.

In contrast, I play maindeck Revoker, which does yeoman's work against them. I also play Metamorph which adds to my answers to Batterskull. Fewer Endbringers hurts a little because the card is effective at stopping Germ tokens and picking off most of their creatures, but is also almost guaranteed to be named by their Revoker. If you can't kill it, you've got 4 dead cards.

Wasteland is also useful against them, just adding to the ways you can shut down that Thalia combo you mentioned.

I'm also still thinking of trying out a miser's copy of Tower of the Magistrate in an effort to add percentage points in these equipment matchups.

Yes, revoker is amazing specifically b/c you can name vial after chalicing them on x=1, then they have to get to flickerwhisp :1::w::w: if they want to swords - that's the lesson here, you really can't shave chalice against them post-board, even though mom is the most dead card printed and they will only have 7-8x one-drops left [4xswords, 3-4x vial]. That's the hidden 2-card combo cost of revoker; but assembling "no more stp -> no more vial -> your move DnT" is one of eldrazi's paths to victory...but needing 1x of each of two four-ofs without tutors (and in specific order) is asking a lot.

You still need some number of those silver bullets like null rods, winter orbs, towers of the magistrate, karakas, displacers, crucible, uba mask if this is a match-up you need to meta-game for in your LGS. Revokers are only so reliable without chalice [it is fine to stop here and say variance is something I'll live with vs DnT; I'll have chalice and revoker or I won't]. The difference between those silver bullets and saying "I'll use Jitte too!" is that the other ones (aside from Tower and Displacer) actually butcher a lot of fast combo decks and non-SFM fair decks.

[zyren]

Suppression field works wonders against death and taxes. It severely hinders ports, wastelands, karakas, vials, stoneforges ability, and non-batterskull equipment. They don't usually have a lot of mana so it really slows them down. Flickerwisp is mostly useless against suppression field because they'll need to use most of their mana to cast / vial it in to temporarily remove it, which leaves little room from doing anything else that turn. Having moxes + talismans (GW route) makes it much easier to play suppression field if they try to deny your white sources.

[Barook]

I'm not a fan of potentially taxing my Displacers/Factories/Karakas MD. I could see it having potential as a SB card, though. Question is in what other match-ups is it going to be relevant? I try to cover as many matches as possibe with high impact SB cards.

[Gheizen64]

The problem with suppression field is strictly a mana one. A colored non-creature spell that want to be casted as early as possible and isn't even black is a major headache in this deck. It's also incredibly hard to play it T1, and does nothing against some decks. Thorn may be even more situational but it has 0 strain on the manabase.

[bruizar]

I think suppression field is a very reasonable sideboard card for the GW build. Suppression Field never gets a lot of love. If that card was bought out and priced at $50,- everybody would be like "this is a chains of mephistopheles for activated abilities"

[Fox]

I think most people understand that Chains is a "guilty pleasure" card, and like suppression field it doesn't really accomplish anything on its own. As stated earlier, you need to be more all-in on turn 0-1 slamming suppression field, b/c you're not always going to be able to have chalice in hand. Even if slammed on turn 1, suppression field is not likely to win a game on its own; having no turn 0-1 play of chalice/suppression is gonna be rough - and it's much easier to slam thorns turn 1.

[bruizar]

I don't think suppression field needs to come down on turn 1 to be effective, especially against D&T which runs zero fetchland. Getting it turn 1 is great, but it's consistently good over the course of the game, especially in a stompy style deck that tries to capitalize on its disruption / soft locks with a fast clock.

Suppression Field does get love in angel stompy lists. And the reason its the only stompy list that plays it is because that's the only stompy list that supports white.

[WinterN]

1 from 28: http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=19588&iddeck=149092
Nice Midrange Mix, featuring Mimics for faster starts and many other good stuff like: Displacer!, Revoker, Endbringer, Ulamog, 2 Karakas main and Plains for nice Sideboard-Stuff! The core of the build should cover a lot of annoying situations and the only add i would snap add is Crucible (because the Build also runs 4 Wastelands) - interesting to see no City of Traitors!

Played a bit with the linked White-Build (see above). I like it so far! I would made some early (and only very small) changes so far:
Main: -1 Waste , -2 Bombs, -1 Ulamog, -2 Revoker, -1 Thorn (he used 61 cards)
Main: +2 Mishra, +1 Crucible, +1 Metamorph, +2 Endless One (overall slightly more stable and aggressive)
Side: -2 Trinisphere, -1 Null Rod, -3 Spatial Contortion (don't see the need of a spot removal that don't kill Gofy/Angler/Smasher)
Side: +1 Thalia, +1 Revoker, +2 Bomb, +1 Maze, +1 Priest (unsure if the white build needs revoker and stuff like maze, but Thalia and more Priest should work well)


Hi! I'm the dude who played this deck. It was 28 people tournament, but it was 6 suiss rounds + top 8 :laugh:. I'm very happy with the list, but I'd like to make some changes after the tournament:

Main Deck:
-1 Ulamog (I liked how it performed against control decks which take you to late game, but it should be in sideboard)

Sideboard:
+1 Ulamog (see above)
+1 All is dust (I want to try it!)
+1 Contaiment Priest (playing two seems to be the right number)
+2 Disenchant (against Blood Moon, Ensnaring Bridge, Moat, etc)
-1 Null rod (deck is already performing well against those decks)
-2 Trinishpere (Storm decks are beatable without them and aren't good enough in other match-ups)
-2 Oblivion Ring (because it "usually" targets the same than Disenchant)

First of all, I'd like to tell that in may metagame there are many Grixis Pyromancer decks, Team America, and other variants, and that is the reason of playing Spatial Contortion in sideboard.

I like Phyrexian Revoker main deck, there are great against almost every deck. The bombs are good against tempo decks, which usually are regular to bad match-ups.

I was planning to play a colorless version with: 3 City of Traitors, 3rd Eye, Urborg and Crucible of Worlds instead on white lands, and Endless One instead of Displacer. But I found that Displacer is too good in the format and deserves the splash for it.

My pairings were:
R1: Dark Depths (0-2)
No responses to DD in G1, and stuck with 1 land after mull to 5 in G2

R2: Miracles (2-0)
Cavern + Seer & Warping Wail to Entreat in G1, Opponent's bad hand and Revoker to his Top in G2

R3: ANT (2-0)
Too much hate

R4: Infect Stompy (1-1-1)
G1 I lost very fast, I won G2 thanks to removal, G3 was controlled by Displacer but no enough time to win

R5: Blade UWb (2-1)
G1 Displace controlled Batterskull until Mr. Ulamog arrived, G2 Lost against TTN + Jitte, G3 opponent had to go and conceded)

R6: Blade UWr (2-0)
G1 Endbringer giving card advantage after long game, G2 Displacer controlled until I could activate Eye of Ugin for a threat each turn

Quarters: 4cc Control (2-0)
Both games won with Ulamog.

Semifinal: ANT (2-0)
Too much hate, again

Final: Grixis Pyromancer (2-1)
G1 won with 3 Reality Smasher, G2 I was killed by 3 Wastelands, G3 early Chalice and Endbringer that controlled 2 Young Pyromancer it alone.

[ChemicalBurns]

Hi! I'm the dude who played this deck. It was 28 people tournament, but it was 6 suiss rounds + top 8 :laugh:. I'm very happy with the list, but I'd like to make some changes after the tournament:

Main Deck:
-1 Ulamog (I liked how it performed against control decks which take you to late game, but it should be in sideboard)

Sideboard:
+1 Ulamog (see above)
+1 All is dust (I want to try it!)
+1 Contaiment Priest (playing two seems to be the right number)
+2 Disenchant (against Blood Moon, Ensnaring Bridge, Moat, etc)
-1 Null rod (deck is already performing well against those decks)
-2 Trinishpere (Storm decks are beatable without them and aren't good enough in other match-ups)
-2 Oblivion Ring (because it "usually" targets the same than Disenchant)

First of all, I'd like to tell that in may metagame there are many Grixis Pyromancer decks, Team America, and other variants, and that is the reason of playing Spatial Contortion in sideboard.

I like Phyrexian Revoker main deck, there are great against almost every deck. The bombs are good against tempo decks, which usually are regular to bad match-ups.

I was planning to play a colorless version with: 3 City of Traitors, 3rd Eye, Urborg and Crucible of Worlds instead on white lands, and Endless One instead of Displacer. But I found that Displacer is too good in the format and deserves the splash for it.

My pairings were:
R1: Dark Depths (0-2)
No responses to DD in G1, and stuck with 1 land after mull to 5 in G2

R2: Miracles (2-0)
Cavern + Seer & Warping Wail to Entreat in G1, Opponent's bad hand and Revoker to his Top in G2

R3: ANT (2-0)
Too much hate

R4: Infect Stompy (1-1-1)
G1 I lost very fast, I won G2 thanks to removal, G3 was controlled by Displacer but no enough time to win

R5: Blade UWb (2-1)
G1 Displace controlled Batterskull until Mr. Ulamog arrived, G2 Lost against TTN + Jitte, G3 opponent had to go and conceded)

R6: Blade UWr (2-0)
G1 Endbringer giving card advantage after long game, G2 Displacer controlled until I could activate Eye of Ugin for a threat each turn

Quarters: 4cc Control (2-0)
Both games won with Ulamog.

Semifinal: ANT (2-0)
Too much hate, again

Final: Grixis Pyromancer (2-1)
G1 won with 3 Reality Smasher, G2 I was killed by 3 Wastelands, G3 early Chalice and Endbringer that controlled 2 Young Pyromancer it alone.

Glad you're here on The Source with feedback on the deck! Do you feel just going mono-white was worth it when you had access potentially to green with Talismans and Brusland over Plains? Basic Plains are strong though, as having Wasteland proof mana is always good.

I also love your SB options going forward. Disenchant seems very good as a reaction to Moon in your list since with Talismans and Plains it should very easy to cast (another benefit of no Brushland, I guess)

And how did it feel going City-less? I know Cities can be a pain in the butt at times, but I feel at least two minimum are warranted in most lists. Why did you feel it was cuttable in this white list? Just not enough land space?

Nonetheless, thanks for joining the discussion, and thanks for all the innovations you've made!

[Fox]

I don't think suppression field needs to come down on turn 1 to be effective, especially against D&T which runs zero fetchland. Getting it turn 1 is great, but it's consistently good over the course of the game, especially in a stompy style deck that tries to capitalize on its disruption / soft locks with a fast clock.

Suppression Field does get love in angel stompy lists. And the reason its the only stompy list that plays it is because that's the only stompy list that supports white.

So the way I see this going is your deck's only big threat turn1 is chalice. Now let's say you don't have it:
-you put down a mimic.
-opponent goes volc, delver pass
-you go suppression field, they daze. you get in 2 dmg.
-they replay volc, hold bolt, get some dmg in.
-they FoW any threat you play and bolt your mimic.
-you kinda lose.

It is oversimplified, but you're not taxing opponent counterspells with suppression field. It's not even clear if they need to counter a field to operate. You just can't win against a lot of decks if you're waiting around till turn 4 to resolve your first game winning attacker or lock piece in a tomb deck if something as simple as a delver is turning sideways. The more you invest in then fixing that scenario with white removal, the further you get from putting on pressure in true eldrazi stompy fashion - and that's fine, but it's become more of an eldrazi control deck. Definitely experiment and give us some post-mortems on the GW eldrazi, but as you're playing think about how games may have looked different with more "counter this or else" shops-type back-to-back lock pieces, and why some games were better b/c you chose field over thorn-type effects.

[kkkant]

Whats the overall opinion on Grim monolith? Adding 3 Waste mana, making great t1 plays (like 3sphere) and avoiding moon seems like too much not to take into consideration.
I think is better than Mox Diamond, since we get a lot of value out of our lands and discarding them doesnt seem like a great idea specially if you are running no maindeck Crucible of Worlds

[ChemicalBurns]

Whats the overall opinion on Grim monolith? Adding 3 Waste mana, making great t1 plays (like 3sphere) and avoiding moon seems like too much not to take into consideration.
I think is better than Mox Diamond, since we get a lot of value out of our lands and discarding them doesnt seem like a great idea specially if you are running no maindeck Crucible of Worlds

Grim Monolith is strong, and a very viable acceleration option in colourless builds. I like it more when you're running Ulamog and etc. though, since you can take advantage of untapping it and then ramping out huge dudes. I think a lot of the reason why people are shying away from it is that most lists don't run 3Ball in the main (since its dissynergy with Eye and most people are on aggressive colourless builds) and Diamond helps particularly in the coloured builds. That being said, if you're running a midrange colourless version, I think Monolith is probably one of the best accelration options.

Also, I've been tinkering away and ended up with a new version. It's... Interesting.

Lands: (24)
4 Ancient Tomb
3 City of Traitors
3 Eye of Ugin
4 Eldrazi Temple
3 Cavern of Souls
7 Island

Creatures: (23)
4 Endless One
4 Eldrazi Mimic
4 Eldrazi Skyspawner
4 Reality Smasher
4 Thought-Knot Seer
3 Drowner of Hope

Non-Creature Spells: (13)
4 Mox Diamond
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Thorn of Amethyst
2 Warping Wail

Sideboard: (15)
3 Tormod's Crypt
3 Submerge
2 Arcane Laboratory
2 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Echoing Truth
1 Flusterstorm
1 Warping Wail

Basically, I wanted to find the best aggressive Drowner of Hope shell. Turns out, its too hard to fit cards such as Vile Aggregate and etc. in the list, primarily because the mana base cannot accomodate it, and basic Island is actually very strong (who knew :P) for sideboard options.

This is essentially a port of all the typical aggressive colourless builds we've seen, but instead of the often clunky Endbringer, you get Drowner, who is basically everything you ever wanted from Endbringer. Drowner really crushes most fair matchups, allowing board stalls to be broken through and your opponent's combat step tampered with. Unlike Enbringer though, he can do this immediately.

What do we lose though? We lose the utility lands that have been super awesome, while having a basic-heavy mana base... That still sort of loses to Blood Moon (sure, we can Echoing Truth the Moon, but that's not amazing).
EDIT: Forgot to mention we get lots of Scion generators to cast things through Moon anyway, so that's nice.

We gain, as I said, Drowner, who is probably the best six drop Eldrazi I've played so far, but also gain Skyspawner who has overperformed. It looks so innocuous but gives us so much utility, being an evasive threat which we've really lacked, as well as giving us crucial ramp when we're bottlenecked. The sideboard also gives us some sweet things. Submerge is probably the most impressive, making tempo-ing BUG decks a reality while you beat them down, and is the reason why I've favoured basic Island over trying to fit in a second colour via Shivan Reef/Yavimaya Coast etc. Echoing Truth is nice catchall that also fulfils the Ratchet Bomb slot in a way, and Flusterstorm and Arcane Laboratory is additional combo defence which is probably unecessary, but still very reasonable.

I've had to run Diamond as my acceleration source here, and I still haven't been the happiest with it, and I might want to cut down to three, but I want to ensure I can cast my blue spells reliably per usual. I've also cut Wastelands but would love to find room for two of them. Maybe I'll change -1 Diamond -1 Island +2 Wasteland? Idk, blue sources are getting kind of sketchy now, and we need Island for Submerge.

I'm not sure if this is even better than existing colourless builds, but it fixes two problems I've had:
- Very middling additional cheap plays (Reshaper, Revokers slots etc.) who are very replaceable. Skyspawner takes this slot admirably.
- A six drop that immediately impacts the board via Drowner.
It doesn't add much to the sideboard other than additional combo disruption and Submerge, and cuts into utility lands (though I guess I can try squeeze some in) and maybe mono-white or GW builds still offer more.

That being said, casting Drowner of Hope is friggin' sweet.

I'll be testing this a little more.

[iostream]

Whats the overall opinion on Grim monolith? Adding 3 Waste mana, making great t1 plays (like 3sphere) and avoiding moon seems like too much not to take into consideration.
I think is better than Mox Diamond, since we get a lot of value out of our lands and discarding them doesnt seem like a great idea specially if you are running no maindeck Crucible of WorldsI've tried it extensively, and it's merely OK. Definitely better than Mox Diamond, but not much better than SSG. Most of the time, it's just a Lotus Petal that costs 2. The upside is that you get to dump your hand if you have Eye out, and the downside is that it's vulnerable to countermagic. Blood Moon, etc. is not a good reason to run it in my opinion, since even if you draw the Monolith against Moon, you still get mostly wrecked because it's so slow; under an early Moon, you are likely to have to spend a turn to play Monolith and then wait until next turn to use it, which really sucks.

[Fox]

I've tried it extensively, and it's merely OK. Definitely better than Mox Diamond, but not much better than SSG. Most of the time, it's just a Lotus Petal that costs 2. The upside is that you get to dump your hand if you have Eye out, and the downside is that it's vulnerable to countermagic. Blood Moon, etc. is not a good reason to run it in my opinion, since even if you draw the Monolith against Moon, you still get mostly wrecked because it's so slow; under an early Moon, you are likely to have to spend a turn to play Monolith and then wait until next turn to use it, which really sucks.

Adding to this, monolith goes with 3-ball while Eye and 3-ball don't play well together. Something to think about. You also should be heavily considering multiple Null Rods in the board, pushing you away from monolith. I am endlessly fascinated by those wanting to use activatable mana artifacts when you have access to: city of traitors, ancient tomb, eldrazi temple, eye of ugin, and crystal vein. [maybe I'm missing some key 3 mana play???]

[kkkant]

Adding to this, monolith goes with 3-ball while Eye and 3-ball don't play well together. Something to think about. You also should be heavily considering multiple Null Rods in the board, pushing you away from monolith. I am endlessly fascinated by those wanting to use activatable mana artifacts when you have access to: city of traitors, ancient tomb, eldrazi temple, eye of ugin, and crystal vein. [maybe I'm missing some key 3 mana play???]


The reason behind playing activvable mana artifacts is simple: not automatically losing to blood moon.
On the 3sphere topic: I would just like to play it because its an autowin vs a very big portion of the meta, but maybe its not worth maindecking.

EDIT: After some consideration i guess iostream is right on the monolith, its not that its slow but facing an early moon youll get to activate it very few times. I think talismans can be better since we mostly dont need more than 1 waste mana.

[bruizar]

So the way I see this going is your deck's only big threat turn1 is chalice. Now let's say you don't have it:
-you put down a mimic.
-opponent goes volc, delver pass
-you go suppression field, they daze. you get in 2 dmg.
-they replay volc, hold bolt, get some dmg in.
-they FoW any threat you play and bolt your mimic.
-you kinda lose.

It is oversimplified, but you're not taxing opponent counterspells with suppression field. It's not even clear if they need to counter a field to operate. You just can't win against a lot of decks if you're waiting around till turn 4 to resolve your first game winning attacker or lock piece in a tomb deck if something as simple as a delver is turning sideways. The more you invest in then fixing that scenario with white removal, the further you get from putting on pressure in true eldrazi stompy fashion - and that's fine, but it's become more of an eldrazi control deck. Definitely experiment and give us some post-mortems on the GW eldrazi, but as you're playing think about how games may have looked different with more "counter this or else" shops-type back-to-back lock pieces, and why some games were better b/c you chose field over thorn-type effects.

I totally agree with this assessment. I wouldn't play it main but as it stands I'm not playing the white version yet. I do think displacer is hot but I'm not sure what the best second splash color is yet (blue or green). I'm trying out the aggressive colorless/black list over the controlling list first.

[MD.Ghost]

Also, updates on RG build:

Like your build so far, seems good enough for some test runs. I would only changes -1 PFire +1 K-Return, because i feel one more sweeper should be better, since once fired off (and trades >2:1) it doesnt matter if your opponent waste Grove&Co. After a lot of games, i don't feel to struggle against a single Creature, most of the time it is way better to kill all of the little dudes on the field (which is why a like All is Dust in other Mid-Lategame Builds). K-Return also "combo" well better with Trinisphere and the World Breaker&Friends Eldrazi, without any additional Mana/Support from Lands. The other change would be, try to find room for a 2nd Library, since that card is really strong even if you not draw additional cards. Cuts can be one Trinisphere, World Breaker or even Conduit - but yes it is hard to find some space in this deck. Are you thought about Mishra? I like it at the GW build from Barook, and RG seems quite similar at most core elements. I would try -1 Eye and 1 K-Forest for +2 Mishra, because Eye don't support the RG-Cards, it should be fine as late game option (think about it with 2 Library in mind).


I cut one Rest in Peace from my Sideboard for a second Containment Priest.

I might move a 2nd Karakas to the MD in my flex land spot and leave the third in the board, opening up another SB slot.

I think we got some good working here, i am happy you also made the adjustments: 2nd Karakas Main, 2nd Priest Side Both will clearly improve some of the worst situations/matchups we can face.


Think you've misread, the point I make is that DnT (and batterskull decks in general) - piloted like combo - is a very bad matchup for eldrazi.

Maybe i played the wrong eldrazi decks all the time, but i don't see DnT as a "very bad matchup". Sure Manadenial can be a real pain (most of the time if they also land a T1 Vial), but this deck can also burry DnT well enough. As you and others mentioned, more than enough cards will improve this matchup and all builds can use some of the avaible stuff already. If you mix also some colors for a Splash, you even get more cards (Displacer, ORing, Karakas, PFire, K-Return, K-Grip, Talisman/Mox, Metamorph) to gain advantage over the most ideas DnT Players (looking at Imperial Taxes with Magus) can have against Eldrazi. Even the core cards are good, because Mother can't stall the field and all creatures are easily outclassed vs 4/4, 5/5 or better. Sure, the worst case scenario (multiple Waste/Port) can happen (gladly the Tax of Thalia is useless most of the time), but i also won my last matchup vs 3! Wastelands, because i also hold a land heavy hand and take advantage from :2:Lands and Mox/Talisman and without a vial DnT can't deploy a real threat if the use their mana for manadenial. That is also the most common mistake all Wasteland.decks can do against Eldrazi: Blindly throw Wastelands/Ports against Eldrazi...sometimes it will work, but you can even fall quickly behind, if the Eldrazi pilot can use stuff like Mimic, Endless one. Even a small window (aka 2 landdrops) can result into a 4/4 Seer.


I think suppression field is a very reasonable sideboard card for the GW build. Suppression Field never gets a lot of love. If that card was bought out and priced at $50,- everybody would be like "this is a chains of mephistopheles for activated abilities"

As i mentioned before - i like the card Suppression Field - BUT: is it really better than using Eldrazi Displacer, Karakas, your own Jitte, Manlands etc? I don't think so yet, i would value all other lovely white cards for Eldrazi above the Field (but maybe i am wrong here).


Hi! I'm the dude who played this deck.
I was planning to play a colorless version with: 3 City of Traitors, 3rd Eye, Urborg and Crucible of Worlds instead on white lands, and Endless One instead of Displacer. But I found that Displacer is too good in the format and deserves the splash for it.

Nice to see you here. Thanks for the report and insights of your white build. I also thought about -2 O-Ring +2 Disenchant (want to play my full art cards, which reminds me that Celestial Purge is also a card!) but i like the O-Ring a little more, because you can also use it vs Mirror, Omnishow and overall some (even if it means minor stuff) more Matchups/Situations. Sure if you aim for Moon, Bridge & co Disenchant would still be fine and will profit from "Instant and -1 Mana". As Barook and i already mentioned, Displacer is the real deal for white and it covers many situations that can be problematic for a colorless build (which will be good if this deck become a real legacy contender and other decks will knew the matchup and will be prepared for it - which also means that i think that now is the best time to simply overrun them with aggressiv colorless builds, if you like that playstyle :tongue: )


Talismans and Brusland over Plains?

The "white only" build should be fine with Plains, because Brushland is only another Waste/Moon Target. If you not use stuff like World Breaker (or the UW ideas) it should be better to stay with Plains with opens up to all the good white sideboard cards.


Whats the overall opinion on Grim monolith? Adding 3 Waste mana, making great t1 plays (like 3sphere) and avoiding moon seems like too much not to take into consideration.
I think is better than Mox Diamond, since we get a lot of value out of our lands and discarding them doesnt seem like a great idea specially if you are running no maindeck Crucible of Worlds

As you can see from the discussion before, i was very successful at testing (build 3 from my spreadsheet) with a build of Cloudpost which also includes 3 Grim Monoliths. Overall i see Monoliths only in a build which aims for dropping stuff like Ulamog in Time or using All is Dust as the Sweeper of choice (can be cast Turn 3!). With Monoliths (and i also played 3 Talisman) you also gain advantage against Moon. Afterall the disadvantage is, that sometimes you are to slow, struggle against Softcounters (if your opponent is clever enough and take out the Artifact Ramp) and you waste valuable deckspace, which gets more complicated if you mix the build with sideboard cards etc.

I think fast Aggro or streamlined Midrange builds will not need Grim Monoliths.


That being said, casting Drowner of Hope is friggin' sweet.

I'll be testing this a little more.

I also brewed with U-Eldrazi, Drowner of Hope is nice (and yes it has immediately impact compared to Endbringer) and Skyspawner can also work well (can even block the 20/20 flying Token^^). I would start with 2 Drowner Main and maybe 1 more Side (afterall 6 Mana with 1 color! so no early bomb) The question is, why stay mono-U if Eldrazi Displacer works so well with both cards (thanks to the EtB Trigger)? Both can be combined with Talisman of Progress and Adarka Wastes. This will also lead to 1-2 Phyrexian Metamorph, which are very good with Smasher/Seer on the field, can copy stuff from your opponent and do some tricks with Displacer. Skyspawner is also a very good Target for Equipment, so Jitte should be also mixed in such a build. Afterall the biggest problem (as always) is to combine all the ideas well enough in a 60 card shell.

[ChemicalBurns]

You might be right here that UW could offer lots of options - especially in terms of sideboard cards. That being said, once we include talismans in the deck I feel we get a bit clunky and less explosive, which drowner and sky spawner, at least I feel, are conducive to. I guess we could just still keep the Diamonds though to not lose speed. An interesting thought though and I'll see if I can find a starting UW list I'm happy with. As you said, finding slots for everything is hard.

EDIT: Also MD.Ghost thank you for your super thorough responses to everyone's thoughts again, always good stuff.

[Gheizen64]

If you play diamond I'd try gemstone caverns too because, even if it can't be used going first, it has the advantage of being nowhere as bad If topdecked and can still remove extra legendary lands from your hand . Also SSG which can carry equips.

[Noctalor]

Mox diamond is almost always worse than spirit guide imho, mox + land is probably as good as simian this turn + land drop next one.

Am i missing something?

[WinterN]

Glad you're here on The Source with feedback on the deck! Do you feel just going mono-white was worth it when you had access potentially to green with Talismans and Brusland over Plains? Basic Plains are strong though, as having Wasteland proof mana is always good.
I think there is enough space for green or blue splash. The only advantage of playing basic plains over pain lands is Blood Moon. Wastelands are harmful even with basic lands. The reason I didn't splash a second color is because I just didn't feel the need.


And how did it feel going City-less? I know Cities can be a pain in the butt at times, but I feel at least two minimum are warranted in most lists. Why did you feel it was cuttable in this white list? Just not enough land space?
I would add it to a more aggro build, or a build with Mox Diamond and/or Crucible of Worlds. Cities work well when you don't mind to "lose" a land drop after reaching 4/5 mana curve. That isn't my case. I wanted to rearch 6 mana for Endbringer, keep Displacer active, activate Eye of Ugin, etc.

My first version of the deck had these mana base:

4x Eldrazi Temple
4x Ancient Tomb
4x Cavern of Souls
4x Cloudpost
4x Glimmerpost
2x Vesuva
2x Eye of Ugin

It worked well reaching the high curve fast, but it was very weak against Wastelands, and not playing my own Wastelands was a valuable loss.

[bruizar]

If you play diamond I'd try gemstone caverns too because, even if it can't be used going first, it has the advantage of being nowhere as bad If topdecked and can still remove extra legendary lands from your hand . Also SSG which can carry equips.

Minor nitpick, I'd go ESG to be able to cast World Breaker

[hofzge]

Main Deck:
-1 Ulamog (I liked how it performed against control decks which take you to late game, but it should be in sideboard)

Sideboard:
+1 Ulamog (see above)
+1 All is dust (I want to try it!)
+1 Contaiment Priest (playing two seems to be the right number)
+2 Disenchant (against Blood Moon, Ensnaring Bridge, Moat, etc)
-1 Null rod (deck is already performing well against those decks)
-2 Trinishpere (Storm decks are beatable without them and aren't good enough in other match-ups)
-2 Oblivion Ring (because it "usually" targets the same than Disenchant)


This list looks really thought through and Displacer is a reason I will maybe sometime give up thinking about an aggressive colorless version as this week I lost to Show and Tell in compelling fashion due to 2 Show and Telled creatures (G1 Emrakul G2 Griselbrand) even through my disruption of Thorn & Revoker G1 and Revoker G2. It is also very hard to name the right thing with revoker if you don't have Displacers (I only played 2 Endbringers) and only one Karakas and no maindeck Warping Wails.

Anyways I went 3-1 (well basically 2-1):
R1 I played against Show and Tell (see above) 0:2

R2 Bye...

R3 Reanimator: 2:0
G1 I get some pressure out and a Thorn and he is not able to cobble anything together.
G2 My time to luck out: I mull and see Karakas on the scry. I then still go to revoke Griselbrand, as I have little else and he careful studies Griselbrand and Tidespout Tyrant. I am really reluctant to name Griselbrand as don't want to make him reanimate
Tidespout Tyrant. He goes to reanimate Griselbrand, as he thinks 7/7 lifelink is better (I agree) and I Karakas it away and that was all she wrote.

R4 Dredge: 2:0
G1 after realizing the Endless Ones are a great out to Bridges I keep a hand of 2 Endless Ones and a Chalice. After Chalices resolves he is unable to do much (he had played a Looting on T1) as he has only 1 Land.
G2 I have a Chalice again and play an Endless one removing 2 Bridges, but he hardcasts Narcomoeba, Putrid Imp, Thug and relevantly a Stinkweed Imp. To not die to his little Fliers I hardcast a Faerie off a Mox and a Cavern naming Faerie ;) After some turns of building a board against his Stinkweed Imp I attack and Exile the dead Imp with another Faerie. I then go on to roll over him -> A strange game.

The list I played was:
4x Ancient Tomb
4x Cavern of Souls
4x City of Traitors
4x Eldrazi Temple
3x Eye of Ugin
1x Karakas
4x Wasteland
3x Dismember
4x Eldrazi Mimic
2x Endbringer
4x Endless One
4x Phyrexian Revoker
4x Reality Smasher
4x Thought-Knot Seer
4x Chalice of the Void
3x Mox Diamond
3x Thorn of Amethyst
1x Umezawa's Jitte
Sideboard
3x Faerie Macabre
1x Grafdigger's Cage
3x Pithing Needle
3x Ratchet Bomb
1x Umezawa's Jitte
3x Warping Wail
1x Trinisphere

In the future I will probably heed the words of others and maindeck the Warping Wails to come to something like this:
4x Ancient Tomb
4x Cavern of Souls
4x City of Traitors
4x Eldrazi Temple
3x Eye of Ugin
1x Karakas
4x Wasteland
3x Warping Wail
4x Eldrazi Mimic
3x Endbringer
4x Endless One
3x Phyrexian Revoker
4x Reality Smasher
4x Thought-Knot Seer
4x Chalice of the Void
3x Mox Diamond
4x Thorn of Amethyst

Sideboard
1x Dismember
4x Faerie Macabre
1x Grafdigger's Cage
3x Pithing Needle
3x Ratchet Bomb
2x Umezawa's Jitte
1x Warping Wail

On the other hand I have to admit that the white version can eschew a lot of the problems the colorless Stompy version has and the displacer is sweet and white has great sideboard cards in RIP and Disenchant. It might be that it is just a more stable deck as with the Cities you sometimes have horrible hands of Eye + City + Chalice or double City...

[anakyn]

He goes to reanimate Tidespout, I Karakas and that was all she wrote.

I don't get it: Tidespout is not legendary, so Karakas does nothing to it.
And you can't Revoke him since its ability is not activated.

In fact, Tidespout is maybe the best fatty to reanimate against Eldrazi Stompy.

[gkraigher]

I still have no idea how you guys don't understand the power of Wasteland Strangler, Deathrite Shaman, and Relic of Progenitus in Legacy.

The lists in this thread are glass cannon creature lists that get wrecked by the tier 1 decks.

[bruizar]

I still have no idea how you guys don't understand the power of Wasteland Strangler, Deathrite Shaman, and Relic of Progenitus in Legacy.

The lists in this thread are glass cannon creature lists that get wrecked by the tier 1 decks.

I was considering Wasteland Strangler as a sideboard card but discarded the idea as I think it will only be truly relevant against Elves. Can you propose a list using the above cards and explain why you think it will favor the currently unfavorable match ups?

[Barook]

I still have no idea how you guys don't understand the power of Wasteland Strangler, Deathrite Shaman, and Relic of Progenitus in Legacy.

The lists in this thread are glass cannon creature lists that get wrecked by the tier 1 decks.
That's a pretty ignorant post. Chalice of the Void is better than either DRS or Relic in Legacy.

Your post also blatantly ignores the development of the GW Midrange version.

[bruizar]

That's a pretty ignorant post. Chalice of the Void is better than either DRS or Relic in Legacy.

Your post also blatantly ignores the development of the GW Midrange version.

It sounds to me like someone is trying to replicate the modern version without understanding what makes legacy a different format, but I don't want to jump to conclusions.

[hofzge]

I don't get it: Tidespout is not legendary, so Karakas does nothing to it.
And you can't Revoke him since its ability is not activated.

In fact, Tidespout is maybe the best fatty to reanimate against Eldrazi Stompy.

My Bad: What I meant was he does NOT reanimate Tidespout but Griselbrand and loses because of that.

[gkraigher]

That's a pretty ignorant post. Chalice of the Void is better than either DRS or Relic in Legacy.

Your post also blatantly ignores the development of the GW Midrange version.

Wrong, cards you auto lose to:

Moat
Glacial chasm
Dark depths
Ensnaring bridge
Humility
Blazing archon
Progenitus
Terminus
Price of progress - all these lists auto lose to burn. Auto lose.

These are all cards you will have to play against and your only solution is endbringer. The deck had only one line of attack, it has no reach, no tricks, just creatures attacking. That is an extremely weak strategy when it isn't protected by counter magic.

Legacy is a format where decks attack on more than one plane. Creatures attacking is one of the single weakest strategies in Legacy. And these decks are all in on that one strategy because that's all you have.

I think time will prove me correct that eldrazi without deathrite shaman is strictly a tier 3 decklists. It does nothing unfair in an unfair field. You are playing modern, while your opponent is playing legacy. Good luck doing that.

[bruizar]

Wrong, cards you auto lose to:

Moat
Glacial chasm
Dark depths
Ensnaring bridge
Humility
Blazing archon
Progenitus
Terminus
Price of progress - all these lists auto lose to burn. Auto lose.


Moat - World Breaker
Glacial Chasm - World Breaker
Dark Depths - Eldrazi Displacer, World Breaker
Ensnaring Bridge - World Breaker
Humility - World Breaker
Blazing Archon - Yes, an issue, but it rarely comes up. Only in reanimate sideboards. Ulamog in sideboard
Terminus - Warping Wail
Price of Progress - Warping Wail / Chalice of the Void

[Barook]

Wrong, cards you auto lose to:

Moat
Glacial chasm
Dark depths
Ensnaring bridge
Humility
Blazing archon
Progenitus
Terminus
Price of progress - all these lists auto lose to burn. Auto lose.

These are all cards you will have to play against and your only solution is endbringer. The deck had only one line of attack, it has no reach, no tricks, just creatures attacking. That is an extremely weak strategy when it isn't protected by counter magic.

Legacy is a format where decks attack on more than one plane. Creatures attacking is one of the single weakest strategies in Legacy. And these decks are all in on that one strategy because that's all you have.

I think time will prove me correct that eldrazi without deathrite shaman is strictly a tier 3 decklists. It does nothing unfair in an unfair field. You are playing modern, while your opponent is playing legacy. Good luck doing that.
Moat --> World Breaker, All is Dust
Glacial chasm --> World Breaker
Dark depths --> Karakas or Displacer
Ensnaring bridge --> World Breaker
Humility --> World Breaker, All is Dust
Blazing Archon --> All is Dust
Progenitus --> Wail can counter whatever puts it into play, All is Dust
Terminus --> Wail, TKS + Displacer combo, Factory, not playing like an idiot
Price of progress - all these lists auto lose to burn. Auto lose. - Can't win against everybody. Besides, Burn is such a tiny part of the metagame that I don't care about it.

That's why I dislike the pure colorless build/aggro build because it's so much of a one-trick pony.

Edit: @Bruizar: Chalice works, Wail can't counter instants.

[bruizar]

Moat --> World Breaker, All is Dust
Glacial chasm --> World Breaker
Dark depths --> Karakas or Displacer
Ensnaring bridge --> World Breaker
Humility --> World Breaker, All is Dust
Blazing Archon --> All is Dust
Progenitus --> Wail can counter whatever puts it into play, All is Dust
Terminus --> Wail, TKS + Displacer combo, Factory, not playing like an idiot
Price of progress - all these lists auto lose to burn. Auto lose. - Can't win against everybody. Besides, Burn is such a tiny part of the metagame that I don't care about it.

That's why I dislike the pure colorless build/aggro build because it's so much of a one-trick pony.

Edit: @Bruizar: Chalice works, Wail can't counter instants.

Much more comprehensive, and correct :-) Thanks.

[Fox]

It sounds to me like someone is trying to replicate the modern version without understanding what makes legacy a different format, but I don't want to jump to conclusions.
I don't think what barook said is wrong. Chalice on 1 is way better for eldrazi than Relic, DRS, and Strangler - that and chalice isn't much of a modern card as far as I know. Confused by wasteland strangler comment; I guess it has applications but seems only relevant to legacy b/c it can ingest suspended Ancestral Vision - especially puzzling because it almost doesn't matter how many cards shardless draws (if you can beat goyf with your eldrazi).

Take chalice out of this deck without going blue (or thorn/sphere overload) and throwing in some cards you've suggested will destroy eldrazi's win % vs top tier decks (especially miracles and sneak 'n show). I think you'll find that Eldrazi lists [especially colorless ones] are easily able to compete with more than half of the Decks to Beat sub-forum. One thing that is clear right now is that ANT and Miracles widely agreed upon as being the top two Legacy decks at this moment, and eldrazi will win most of these matches [and do even better vs ANT if it reserves sideboard slots for Null Rods]. The glaring weakness of Eldrazi lists at this time are RG Lands and Batterskull decks (piloted as combo), and potentially burn/reanimator. I don't see how your three suggestions do anything but overreact to yard based strategies, especially when this deck can't actually afford to use revoker without chalice on 1 protection.

Before going after x=1 chalice, I'd be quicker to criticize GW eldrazi for its use of mana signets, maindeck displacers, and overloading reanimator hate [RiP in sideboard, multiple Karakas in main].

[bruizar]

The glaring weakness of Eldrazi lists at this time are RG Lands and Batterskull decks (piloted as combo), and potentially burn/reanimator.

This is why I'm advocating and running Sword of Light and Shadow. The life gain helps offset your Ancient Tombs / Burn if you can get it down quickly enough, it provides protection from D&T.dec and germ token, and it recurrs Faerie Macabres when you connect against graveyard strategies. In addition, it negates Gurmag Angler which could outclass a lot of the deck's creatures.

[Barook]

Before going after x=1 chalice, I'd be quicker to criticize GW eldrazi for its use of mana signets, maindeck displacers, and overloading reanimator hate [RiP in sideboard, multiple Karakas in main].
I think Displacer is easily one of the Top 3 Eldazi now, if not the most important one after TKS, and not at least splashing white for 4x Displacer is a grave mistake. It is that good.

E.g. played against MUD today with an opponent about to jam down two Wurmcoil Engines. Displacer not only stopped the first Engine, but I also brought in Containment Priest, which swiftly ended the game with the exile combo.

[Fox]

I think Displacer is easily one of the Top 3 Eldazi now, if not the most important one after TKS, and not at least splashing white for 4x Displacer is a grave mistake. It is that good.

E.g. played against MUD today with an opponent about to jam down two Wurmcoil Engines. Displacer not only stopped the first Engine, but I also brought in Containment Priest, which swiftly ended the game with the exile combo.
It's definitely fancy, so you get style points. What I want to see more of though if you use it is:
-attack with TKS
-blink TKS at end opponent draw step
-huzzah, vigilance trick unlocked!
This would be especially good vs sorcery speed reliant decks.

[bruizar]

It's definitely fancy, so you get style points. What I want to see more of though if you use it is:
-attack with TKS
-blink TKS at end opponent draw step
-huzzah, vigilance trick unlocked!
This would be especially good vs sorcery speed reliant decks.

Displacer brings the creature back tapped, which is why it's so good. So no vigilance, but complete control of combat. After the tournament I'll try and brew something with the Rasputin Dreamweaver combo as I think it's easily doable for the deck and provides an instant win by exiling / drawing deck through TKS.

[Barook]

It's definitely fancy, so you get style points. What I want to see more of though if you use it is:
-attack with TKS
-blink TKS at end opponent draw step
-huzzah, vigilance trick unlocked!
This would be especially good vs sorcery speed reliant decks.

Exile another target creature, then return it to the battlefield tapped under its owner's control.
I don't think so.

You can nuke Miracles with their trigger on the stack if you flicker TKS, though.

[Fox]

Displacer brings the creature back tapped, which is why it's so good. So no vigilance, but complete control of combat. After the tournament I'll try and brew something with the Rasputin Dreamweaver combo as I think it's easily doable for the deck and provides an instant win by exiling / drawing deck through TKS.

True, but it's also pure control of what they can play at sorcery speed - and that's what's important. Force opponent to draw 2nd card, remove the relevant one as TKS comes back, and only then allow them into a main phase.

no vigilance :mad:

[Darkenslight]

I was considering Wasteland Strangler as a sideboard card but discarded the idea as I think it will only be truly relevant against Elves. Can you propose a list using the above cards and explain why you think it will favor the currently unfavorable match ups?

Well, the short version is that it rolls over anything not named Tasigur, the Golden Fang, and even then, you can still catch out Mentors and Goyfs if you play it post-combat. IT is an utterly ridiculous card - which is somewhat surprising, let me tell you.

[MD.Ghost]

Blazing Archon --> All is Dust / Duplicant is also a nice answer (and a nightmare with Displacer)
Price of progress - all these lists auto lose to burn. Auto lose. - Can't win against everybody. Besides, Burn is such a tiny part of the metagame that I don't care about it. Chalice&Torn will help a lot, since they only play a small amount off Artifact Hate (and no Cantrips), add Chalice @2 which means also "GG vs Price of Progress and the common solution Smash to Smithereens". Some Mox/Talisman can also help to not overload the field with lands.

That's why I dislike the pure colorless build/aggro build because it's so much of a one-trick pony.

Edit: @Bruizar: Chalice works, Wail can't counter instants.

The list is clearly tailor-made for the GW build and it still proves that the development goes in the right direction! It shows also some cards against the common colorless Eldrazi Builds that running rampant now. It should be interesting to see if the Meta will use more of the named Hate-Stuff, if Eldrazi become a real legacy contender.


Batterskull decks (piloted as combo)

Before going after x=1 chalice, I'd be quicker to criticize GW eldrazi for its use of mana signets, maindeck displacers, and overloading reanimator hate [RiP in sideboard, multiple Karakas in main].

First, i read all your posts about DnT/Batterskull, i clearly see it not as an issue (besides T1 Vial followed with Manadenial for several Turns). Second I can't understand, that you dislike the GW Idea, because it easily take care of Batterskull and other Equipment and is full with tools that will help vs DnT stuff. (Karakas, Manlands, Talisman/Mox, All is Dust!, World Breaker, Jitte, Displacer). I also won a game vs Smasher equipt with Batterskull (which is more scary than most DnT Creatures), cast World Breaker vs Skull and block/kill Smasher all day long...

And why you don't understand that Displacer is so good and that Rest in Peace is not only here for Reanimator Hate (hint: Gofy, Lands etc.) There is no reason to discuss the idea behind the cards if you understand what matchups can be problematic for Eldrazi.


E.g. played against MUD today with an opponent about to jam down two Wurmcoil Engines. Displacer not only stopped the first Engine, but I also brought in Containment Priest, which swiftly ended the game with the exile combo.

I am glad that you also use this tech. I imagine a similar situation against MUD, they will have a hard time against this Combo (and All is Dust/Ugin is also pretty bad tech vs Eldrazi). Priest also take care of most forgemaster shenanigans.

[hofzge]

I think the problematic permanents are widely immune to Wasteland Strangler: What does it help against Emrakul, Griselbrand, Ensnaring Bridge, Humility, Moat, Worship, ... (see some posts above).

We should more go into a direction like the white and GW versions which try to be a generally good deck with undercosted stuff and lots of solutions to "everything".

The Strangler is not that - he needs to first be turned on to do anything and then he is ok against creature, but he is in an undesirable color.

[Gheizen64]

Minor nitpick, I'd go ESG to be able to cast World Breaker

SSG is castable under moon which is way more relevant if you play colorless.

[Crimhead]

The deck had only one line of attack, it has no reach, no tricks, just creatures attacking. That is an extremely weak strategy when it isn't protected by counter magic.I think CotV technically is counter-magic. Most of the creatures also dodge Bolt, CB, and Decay (and unlike MUD beaters the also dodge Disenchant).



Creatures attacking is one of the single weakest strategies in Legacy. And these decks are all in on that one strategy because that's all you have.Creatures are not all this deck has. It has lock pieces too!

Incidentally, have you consdered that creature decks are currently weak because Miracles and Storm are currently prominent? Eldrazis Shops should have solid MUs against both these decks.


You are playing modern, while your opponent is playing legacy. Good luck doing that.

Eldrazi.dec may be Modern legal right now, but I can't see it staying that way for very long. Most likely this deck is actually too strong for Modern.
Modern Eldrazi doesn't have Tomb or City of Traitors. running 14-16 sol lands is a big part of what makes Eldrazi Shops more appealing than traditional MUD. Some people think that MUD only needs a little boost in consistency to be tier one. Extra sol lands plus a smoother curve should provide consistency. Other people believe MUD is already sufficiently competitive but needs a wider player base to really make a splash. Disgruntled banned-out Modern players should provide that in spades!

[bruizar]

SSG is castable under moon which is way more relevant if you play colorless.

I think that's a good reason to run SSG, but then again that depends on your game plan. If you use Jitte's SSG might be better, but if you're running World Breakers I think ESG is better due to the cast trigger giving you a hard-out against Blood Moon. Blood Moon is played in Imperial Painter, red Mud variants, Dragon Stompy and Miracles. Out of these match-ups I think the SSG plan is viable against Miracles, but loses against the other decks because 2/2 equipped creature isn't going to help you (Jitte might help against Imperial Painter, but they may as well just blast it or combo you out before you get enough counters to do something about it). That said, World Breaker costing 6 lands and an ESG is a lot to ask.

No clear answer before I get in more testing with the various builds, but good point Gheizen.

[Gheizen64]

I think that's a good reason to run SSG, but then again that depends on your game plan. If you use Jitte's SSG might be better, but if you're running World Breakers I think ESG is better due to the cast trigger giving you a hard-out against Blood Moon. Blood Moon is played in Imperial Painter, red Mud variants, Dragon Stompy and Miracles. Out of these match-ups I think the SSG plan is viable against Miracles, but loses against the other decks because 2/2 equipped creature isn't going to help you (Jitte might help against Imperial Painter, but they may as well just blast it or combo you out before you get enough counters to do something about it). That said, World Breaker costing 6 lands and an ESG is a lot to ask.

No clear answer before I get in more testing with the various builds, but good point Gheizen.

I said "if you play colorless" which implied no World Breakers. If you play World breaker ESG is probably better, but if you run World breaker you also probably don't want to run a spirit guide in the first place :p

[bruizar]

I said "if you play colorless" which implied no World Breakers. If you play World breaker ESG is probably better, but if you run World breaker you also probably don't want to run a spirit guide in the first place :p

Eldrazi Shops is colorless but plays Mox Diamond and 2 sideboard World Breakers though.

[Barook]

Blazing Archon --> All is Dust / Duplicant is also a nice answer (and a nightmare with Displacer)
Price of progress - all these lists auto lose to burn. Auto lose. - Can't win against everybody. Besides, Burn is such a tiny part of the metagame that I don't care about it. Chalice&Torn will help a lot, since they only play a small amount off Artifact Hate (and no Cantrips), add Chalice @2 which means also "GG vs Price of Progress and the common solution Smash to Smithereens". Some Mox/Talisman can also help to not overload the field with lands.
I answered that list intentionally with maindeck cards to show the deck has outs to most things. After boarding, it gets even better when you have access to Priest, Thorn, etc.

If Duplicant could be tutored with Conduit, it would be nice. But as it stands, Priest does almost the same with Displacer for a way cheaper price.

[Gheizen64]

On the xSG vs Mox diamond debate:

In general, i think in a deck with so many sol lands, xSG are better than diamonds.
If you have 2 land starter
- Mox and xSG give you the same mana T1, but only the hand with xSG can have 4 mana T2 as you could have 2 sol lands in hand.
On the other hand, with a 3 land starter,
- mox and xSG give you the same mana T1, but mox can also give you 5 mana T2 instead of 4 mana T2. Again, SSG is better on T3 because you are 5 mana potential vs 6 mana potential.

Basically, if you have an X-lander hand, mox diamond give you better mana in the turns 1<turns<X. SSG give the same mana on T1, and better on turn X. 1-landers with moxens are unkeepable, with xSG they are slightly better but still unkeepable in most situations. 2 and 3-landers which are the most common hands, are described above. 4 landers are debatable, but you probably don't keep what is essentially a 2 business spell hand. SSG could be marginally better as it could work as a slow clock, especially if you have a T1 chalice. 5 landers + accelleration is a mull.
When you have multiple accelleration pieces, moxens are way worse than SSG, but both are really bad.

Mox has also the ability to cycle multiple legendary lands. This is more relevant if you run like 4 ugins and 4 traitors obviously. And Crucible of Worlds too. Mox also can give you colored mana which is relevant for Dismember, and in case you run colored eldrazis.
xSG can be emergencly casted as grey ogres and are castable (SSG) under blood moon. It's also good to kill dazes, and isn't effected by spheres effects. They also get better in lists with equipments. It also make Eye of ugin activations easier as it doesn't make you discard sol lands so you get to 7 mana faster in most cases.

Gemstone Cavern as a 1 or 2-of (plus 1 more in side) is also essentially a mox diamond on the draw, but with way less drawbacks if not drew on T1 , and able to give you C as well.

That said, in a pure colorless list, i'd run 3 SSG and 1-2 caverns (plus 1 in sb) in place of mox diamonds. I'd also run a single jitte and sofai to make Warping Wails and SSG a bit more relevant. No crucible either, so possibly factories in place of wastelands. 2-3 Traitors and 3 Ugins to avoid multiples early on which are awkward.

If you run some colored spells/eldrazis and/or crucibles, moxens become more interesting. I'd max on watelands for wastelocks with crucibles. Play some colored spells to make diamond slightly more relevant. 4 Traitors become more appealing, as well as 4 ugins.

Just my 2 cents.

EDIT: i did a mistake in the turn evaluation, as i assumed you always fire up xSG on T1 (which is probably often because you want chalice T1, but not always). It's not only about the first and X turn, the point is that SSG can give you more maximum mana because it doesn't remove you your lands, as well as giving you a +1 mana boost for 1 turn. Which is less relevant than Moxens the more lands you have, and the higher your curve. To elaborate a bit on this, if you have a three land starters, you still can have 5 mana turn 2 with SSG like with moxen, you'll just have 1 less mana T1 (2 vs 3 or 1 vs 2). Which, i think, make for a bit better of case for xSG. With three lands and a ESG for example, this mean that you could even get 7 (world breaker) mana on T3 whereas you'd be need a fourth land.

[iostream]

Played in a small 5-rounder yesterday. Beat ANT, Eureka-Tell, and Infect. Lost to D+T and Abzan Nic Fit.

4 Ancient Tomb
4 Cavern of Souls
4 City of Traitors
4 Eldrazi Temple
2 Eye of Ugin
1 Karakas
2 Mishra's Factory
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2 Wasteland

2 Phyrexian Revoker
3 Endbringer
4 Eldrazi Mimic
4 Endless One
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher

3 Simian Spirit Guide

4 Chalice of the Void
2 Trinisphere
2 Tangle Wire
1 Umezawa's JItte

3 Warping Wail

Sideboard
3 Thorn of Amethyst
3 Pithing Needle
3 Ratchet Bomb
2 Faerie Macabre
2 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Dismember

Observations:

- Was trying out Tangle Wire for the first time in a competitive setting - wasn't good at all, actually. Always felt really win-more.
- Revokers were bleh as usual, still don't really feel like the deck needs that in the maindeck.
- Endbringer was great and people should play more of him.
- Simian Spirit Guide was also great, and I think 3 is about the right number. You want a little extra help to power out 3ball and Chalice on turn 1, but you don't need to overload on it.

At this point, I've tried nearly every single sphere or artifact lock piece, and they have all been disappointing except Chalice, Trinisphere, and Warping Wail. I am starting to think that maybe I should just be less interactive and play Matter Reshaper, if only because it falls on the right spot on the curve. I know he kind of sucks. But a thing that happened often was that if I had only one Sol land in the opener, I got stuck with turn 1 Chalice/Endless One/Mimic and didn't have a good turn 2 play. I'd be happy to try out -2 Tangle Wire, -2 Revoker, +4 Matter Reshaper going forward. This makes the deck a lot more like a normal linear aggro deck, but maybe that's ok.

I like this idea better than slowing the deck down for colored reactive cards like World Breaker and Eldrazi Displacer. Having reliable T1 spheres is basically this deck's only saving grace against combo, and having to cut Sol lands like people are doing and play Talismans (which are -1 mana net the turn you play them) instead of accelerants like SSG seems like it makes that angle much, much worse.

[hofzge]

On the xSG vs Mox diamond debate:

In general, i think in a deck with so many sol lands, xSG are better than diamonds.
If you have 2 land starter
- Mox and xSG give you the same mana T1, but only the hand with xSG can have 4 mana T2 as you could have 2 sol lands in hand.
On the other hand, with a 3 land starter,
- mox and xSG give you the same mana T1, but mox can also give you 5 mana T2 instead of 4 mana T2. Again, SSG is better on T3 because you are 5 mana potential vs 6 mana potential.

Basically, if you have an X-lander hand, mox diamond give you better mana in the turns 1<turns<X. SSG give the same mana on T1, and better on turn X. 1-landers with moxens are unkeepable, with xSG they are slightly better but still unkeepable in most situations. 2 and 3-landers which are the most common hands, are described above. 4 landers are debatable, but you probably don't keep what is essentially a 2 business spell hand. SSG could be marginally better as it could work as a slow clock, especially if you have a T1 chalice. 5 landers + accelleration is a mull.
When you have multiple accelleration pieces, moxens are way worse than SSG, but both are really bad.

Mox has also the ability to cycle multiple legendary lands. This is more relevant if you run like 4 ugins and 4 traitors obviously. And Crucible of Worlds too. Mox also can give you colored mana which is relevant for Dismember, and in case you run colored eldrazis.
xSG can be emergencly casted as grey ogres and are castable (SSG) under blood moon. It's also good to kill dazes, and isn't effected by spheres effects. They also get better in lists with equipments. It also make Eye of ugin activations easier as it doesn't make you discard sol lands so you get to 7 mana faster in most cases.

Gemstone Cavern as a 1 or 2-of (plus 1 more in side) is also essentially a mox diamond on the draw, but with way less drawbacks if not drew on T1 , and able to give you C as well.

That said, in a pure colorless list, i'd run 3 SSG and 1-2 caverns (plus 1 in sb) in place of mox diamonds. I'd also run a single jitte and sofai to make Warping Wails and SSG a bit more relevant. No crucible either, so possibly factories in place of wastelands. 2-3 Traitors and 3 Ugins to avoid multiples early on which are awkward.

If you run some colored spells/eldrazis and/or crucibles, moxens become more interesting. I'd max on watelands for wastelocks with crucibles. Play some colored spells to make diamond slightly more relevant. 4 Traitors become more appealing, as well as 4 ugins.

Just my 2 cents.

I like the Gemstone Cavern as well as the Spirit Guide - How about this:
4x Ancient Tomb
3x Cavern of Souls
4x City of Traitors
4x Eldrazi Temple
3x Eye of Ugin
1x Gemstone Caverns
1x Karakas
4x Wasteland

3x Warping Wail

4x Eldrazi Mimic
3x Endbringer
4x Endless One
2x Phyrexian Revoker
4x Reality Smasher
4x Simian Spirit Guide
4x Thought-Knot Seer

4x Chalice of the Void
4x Thorn of Amethyst

Sideboard

1x Dismember
4x Faerie Macabre
1x Grafdigger's Cage
3x Pithing Needle
3x Ratchet Bomb
2x Umezawa's Jitte
1x Warping Wail

This is closer to a Dragon Stompy manabase if you count the Waselands as spells (20 lands, 4 SSG) - maybe we should play Trinisphere. The Thorns have been a bit lackluster to me.

[Delvis]

3-0'd Friday Legacy tonight. Technically it was 2-0-1 splitting the final round, but we played the match out for fun and data and I won 4 of 5 games. He was playing Burn. So much for that deck being an "auto-loss." >_>

I also beat Elves and Esper Deathblade.

We're still keeping the full list under wraps for this weekend, but I can tell you we've settled on a colorless Shops list without Moxen or Spirit Guides.

The real test will be Sunday. We're testing more tomorrow and we'll be playing 7 rounds of Swiss on Sunday. I'll update when the dust has settled.

[CovenantElite30]

3-0'd Friday Legacy tonight. Technically it was 2-0-1 splitting the final round, but we played the match out for fun and data and I won 4 of 5 games. He was playing Burn. So much for that deck being an "auto-loss." >_>

I also beat Elves and Esper Deathblade.

We're still keeping the full list under wraps for this weekend, but I can tell you we've settled on a colorless Shops list without Moxen or Spirit Guides.

The real test will be Sunday. We're testing more tomorrow and we'll be playing 7 rounds of Swiss on Sunday. I'll update when the dust has settled.
Can you disclose your sideboard at all?
I went 3-1 last night we my list and my only lose was to elves. I'm curious how you sideboarded against elves.

[Barook]

I said "Fuck it" and bought back into MTGO with my GW build since I'm fully convinced the deck is the real deal. I'll also track all all pre- & post-board wins as well as total match %.

Went 2-3 on the first run, but got also unlucky since I got 2 bad match-ups. Losses were against Burn, Lands (ugh) and Shardless BUG (made some mistakes here). Wins were against Deathblade and LED Dredge.

[Delvis]

Can you disclose your sideboard at all?
I went 3-1 last night we my list and my only lose was to elves. I'm curious how you sideboarded against elves.

I cut my Thorns for more removal. It was the only thing that really was available to me based on my sideboard. Keep in mind it was my first time piloting the deck.

One of my testing partners showed up halfway through the round and gave me advice on the matchup after it was over. He basically said, kill all mana dorks on site. Shut off whatever seems most likely with Revoker. Keep them from doing broken stuff and your creatures will eventually outclass theirs.

[bruizar]

Went 3-1-1 but drew on the 5th turn due to slow playing opponent. I had tks + reality smasher + jitte, he was on 1 eith no board and 1 card in hand.

2-0 omniscience
2-0 delver
1-2 goblins (wasteland and rishadan ports are problematic)
2-0 burn
1-1 stoneblade

Build was suboptimal due to mail not arriving. World breaker is a beast, never leaving him out of the 75 again.

Considering serum powder as i mulled 5 times alone in the first 2 matches.

[bruizar]

Can you disclose your sideboard at all?
I went 3-1 last night we my list and my only lose was to elves. I'm curious how you sideboarded against elves.

I sided in 2 gutshots for dnt/elves/infect/lackey/mimics/dark confidant. If you play urborgs, consider perish

[CovenantElite30]

I sided in 2 gutshots for dnt/elves/infect/lackey/mimics/dark confidant. If you play urborgs, consider perish
I play 3 Warping Wail main which seems to be very good verses those matchups. I play 1 all is Dust in the sideboard and won me a game vs elves. I'm considering going to 2.

[bruizar]

I play 3 Warping Wail main which seems to be very good verses those matchups. I play 1 all is Dust in the sideboard and won me a game vs elves. I'm considering going to 2.

I play 4 Warping Wail, 2 Dismember main and 2 All is Dust sideboard.

[Barook]

From the Ashes is a disgusting card against us. Almost won twice vs Miracles post-board before it wrecked my shit each game.

Finally faced some S&T. G2 was really satisfying:

Opponent plays T2 S&T into Griselbrand, I put in Displayer with activation mana up next turn. He draws 14 of Grisel and plays another S&T. Since I expect Sneak Attack shenanigans, I do the right thing:

http://i.imgur.com/WTmmz1k.jpg

No sneaky noodle monsters, just a perma-exiled Griselbee and a dead opponent next turn. It's nice to see my opponent doing all the work for me. :laugh:

Krosen Grip has been solid so far. I'm thinking about adding a third Containment Priest due to its usefulness in various unfair match-ups or just going ham with Displacer in matches where you don't have anything else to board in. Not sure what to cut - maybe I'm going down to 2 Ratchet Bombs again.

[Fox]

First, i read all your posts about DnT/Batterskull, i clearly see it not as an issue (besides T1 Vial followed with Manadenial for several Turns). Second I can't understand, that you dislike the GW Idea, because it easily take care of Batterskull and other Equipment and is full with tools that will help vs DnT stuff. (Karakas, Manlands, Talisman/Mox, All is Dust!, World Breaker, Jitte, Displacer). I also won a game vs Smasher equipt with Batterskull (which is more scary than most DnT Creatures), cast World Breaker vs Skull and block/kill Smasher all day long...

And why you don't understand that Displacer is so good and that Rest in Peace is not only here for Reanimator Hate (hint: Gofy, Lands etc.) There is no reason to discuss the idea behind the cards if you understand what matchups can be problematic for Eldrazi.

I am glad that you also use this tech. I imagine a similar situation against MUD, they will have a hard time against this Combo (and All is Dust/Ugin is also pretty bad tech vs Eldrazi). Priest also take care of most forgemaster shenanigans.

For the record I don't dislike the GW idea, but there are strengths and weaknesses to be aware of, and always ways to tune the list. The point of that post was that someone was saying something to the effect of "GW tron is bad, stop trying to bring it over from modern" and then they implied things like DRS, Wasteland Strangler, and Relic are stronger than chalice on 1 in GW list. At that point I offered GW cards in the list that deserve a closer look before considering cutting chalice.

I don't think I'll ever be sold on the mana signet/Talisman of Unity slots the GW lists run, and this is probably the main place I'd look to improve the deck. The displacer feels more like a sideboard card, but we'd need someone to take notes on maindeck displacer's effect on a relevant sample size of G1 matches - something I've not seen is focusing on blinking TKS at end of opponent draw step, to limit what opponent can do in a main phase, and that feels like the real strength of this card. The yard hate is probably a little on the overkill side (I get what you're saying about RiP vs goyf/lands, but it feels like layers of redundancy if you're choosing what they can play at sorcery speed).

For all chalice'd Eldrazi lists [colored and colorless], I think I've been pretty consistent with advice to not use artifacts that require activation. I think the upside of 2-4 Null Rods is too high to pass up. Your opening threats (lock pieces) need to occupy the 2-drop slot; expect the first to be countered, and make the deck capable of repeating that play the next turn or slamming the TKS. If this aspect of chalice eldrazi decks is left intact, the rest is personal preference/meta-calls. Legacy Eldrazi doesn't net gain win % by focusing on consistently dropping a smasher turn 2.

[CovenantElite30]

From the Ashes is a disgusting card against us. Almost won twice vs Miracles post-board before it wrecked my shit each game.

Finally faced some S&T. G2 was really satisfying:

Opponent plays T2 S&T into Griselbrand, I put in Displayer with activation mana up next turn. He draws 14 of Grisel and plays another S&T. Since I expect Sneak Attack shenanigans, I do the right thing:

http://i.imgur.com/WTmmz1k.jpg

No sneaky noodle monsters, just a perma-exiled Griselbee and a dead opponent next turn. It's nice to see my opponent doing all the work for me.[emoji23]
Krosen Grip has been solid so far. I'm thinking about adding a third Containment Priest due to its usefulness in various unfair match-ups or just going ham with Displacer in matches where you don't have anything else to board in. Not sure what to cut - maybe I'm going down to 2 Ratchet Bombs again.
What's your sideboard look like?

[Barook]

@CovenantElite30:

1 Umezawa's Jitte
3 Ratchet Bomb
3 Thorn of Amethyst
1 All Is Dust
1 Karakas
3 Rest in Peace
2 Containment Priest
1 Krosan Grip

[MD.Ghost]

From the Ashes is a disgusting card against us. Almost won twice vs Miracles post-board before it wrecked my shit each game.

Finally faced some S&T. G2 was really satisfying:

Opponent plays T2 S&T into Griselbrand, I put in Displayer with activation mana up next turn. He draws 14 of Grisel and plays another S&T. Since I expect Sneak Attack shenanigans, I do the right thing:

No sneaky noodle monsters, just a perma-exiled Griselbee and a dead opponent next turn. It's nice to see my opponent doing all the work for me. :laugh:

Krosen Grip has been solid so far. I'm thinking about adding a third Containment Priest due to its usefulness in various unfair match-ups or just going ham with Displacer in matches where you don't have anything else to board in. Not sure what to cut - maybe I'm going down to 2 Ratchet Bombs again.

From the Ashes?^^ I still like my 1off Wastes at Side :tongue: also glad to play Mox+Talisman to avoid some landdestruction, but yeah we will see more stuff like that, if Eldrazi conquer the meta, ironically it will also affect lands (which are favoured to us).

I also thought about a third priest, the combo is so good (and manawise easy), it wrecks a lot of matchups.

Wasn't it a problem to cast Grip with only 5 sources (under moon)?


I don't think I'll ever be sold on the mana signet/Talisman of Unity slots the GW lists run, and this is probably the main place I'd look to improve the deck. The displacer feels more like a sideboard card, but we'd need someone to take notes on maindeck displacer's effect on a relevant sample size of G1 matches - something I've not seen is focusing on blinking TKS at end of opponent draw step, to limit what opponent can do in a main phase, and that feels like the real strength of this card. The yard hate is probably a little on the overkill side (I get what you're saying about RiP vs goyf/lands, but it feels like layers of redundancy if you're choosing what they can play at sorcery speed).

Displacer is strictly maindeck stuff and the reason to play this build (he is stronger than World Breaker). My first step was 1 Displacer Main, 1 Displacer Side, but i quickly went to the full GW build. I won several game one Game on the back of the guy, i even tutored him with Eye of Ugin in some cases. I also faced one Death & Taxes player with Displacer Main!

Yard Hate Overkill - think about it, this deck can't play cantrips, so have more copies against important matchups is not bad. RiP will also work vs Lands, Storm, Gofy.decks, Aggro Loam (nice Knight) and it has enough impact to use it not only vs Graveyard Combo. Containment Priest is good vs Elves, Sneak & Show and will win you (if paired with Displacer) Matchups like MUD, Mirror and some other stuff with a lot of big dudes.

Talisman/Mox is needed for mana, you want to cast World Breaker, All is Dust and maybe Ulamog - all without Cloudpost (sometimes i miss the lands from my early build) and you want to be able to still do some stuff vs Wasteland/Port.


@CovenantElite30:

1 Umezawa's Jitte
3 Ratchet Bomb
3 Thorn of Amethyst
1 All Is Dust
1 Karakas
3 Rest in Peace
2 Containment Priest
1 Krosan Grip

My is very similar, you can see it at my signature (and some other sideboard cards)

[Barook]

From the Ashes?^^ I still like my 1off Wastes at Side :tongue: also glad to play Mox+Talisman to avoid some landdestruction, but yeah we will see more stuff like that, if Eldrazi conquer the meta, ironically it will also affect lands (which are favoured to us).

I also thought about a third priest, the combo is so good (and manawise easy), it wrecks a lot of matchups.

Wasn't it a problem to cast Grip with only 5 sources (under moon)?



Displacer is strictly maindeck stuff and the reason to play this build (he is stronger than World Breaker). My first step was 1 Displacer Main, 1 Displacer Side, but i quickly went to the full GW build. I won several game one Game on the back of the guy, i even tutored him with Eye of Ugin in some cases. I also faced one Death & Taxes player with Displacer Main!

Yard Hate Overkill - think about it, this deck can't play cantrips, so have more copies against important matchups is not bad. RiP will also work vs Lands, Storm, Gofy.decks, Aggro Loam (nice Knight) and it has enough impact to use it not only vs Graveyard Combo. Containment Priest is good vs Elves, Sneak & Show and will win you (if paired with Displacer) Matchups like MUD, Mirror and some other stuff with a lot of big dudes.

Talisman/Mox is needed for mana, you want to cast World Breaker, All is Dust and maybe Ulamog - all without Cloudpost (sometimes i miss the lands from my early build) and you want to be able to still do some stuff vs Wasteland/Port.
When you lose 4+ lands while they lose nothing, a single Waste isn't going to do it either way.

Grip comes in for various match-ups even without Blood Moon, like MUD or against equipment. I don't want to increase the numbers since 9 green are still not that much for multiple copies.

Displacer isn't SB stuff. It took me quite a bit of playtesting before seeing it's true potential and impact in various match-ups.

I don't know how 3 RiP is "Yard Hate Overkill" - that's pretty standard for white decks that don't run cantrips or tutors, e.g. D&T. Containment Priest serves a different function - hating on cheaty GY strategies is just an added bonus.

Edit: Sneak and Show quickly becomes my favorite match-up due to what ridiculous wins one can pull. Pure bliss:

Locked under Blood Moon with no outs? Better cast Metamorph to copy their Emrakul and wreck them! (https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CbuepkPWEAA05hY.jpg:large)

That's second time Metamorph did me a favor by copying enemy fat (first time was Tidesprout Tyrant vs. Reanimator). Most of the time, it's just another Reality Smahser or TKS. Not the best thing ever, but I'm slowly warming up for it.

[bruizar]

I really don't see Blood Moon as a problematic permanent for Eldrazi. Yes, it's a good card, but no it doesn't guarantee a win. Price of Progress is much more dangerous if you ask me.

@Barook: Can you share your thoughts about Conduit of Ruin? I boarded them out every single match and was never happy to see one but I see you're still running them. What are your targets beyond World Breaker and why wouldn't you just run extra World Breakers instead if it is your only target?

[Barook]

I really don't see Blood Moon as a problematic permanent for Eldrazi. Yes, it's a good card, but no it doesn't guarantee a win. Price of Progress is much more dangerous if you ask me.

@Barook: Can you share your thoughts about Conduit of Ruin? I boarded them out every single match and was never happy to see one but I see you're still running them. What are your targets beyond World Breaker and why wouldn't you just run extra World Breakers instead if it is your only target?
They're okay. They're castable under Blood Moon (unlike Endbringer, for example). World Breaker is still expensive, so I don't want to run too many copies. The ramp ability of Conduit is relevant sometimes.

If you feel like it, you can test something different, like Endbringer or whatever. Conduit isn't 100% set in stone unlike TKS, Smasher and Displacer.

Speaking of Displacer, he was MVP in the first Maverick match-up I just played. It's a trooper. Maverick doesn't seem like a good match-up, considering Knight fetching up multiple Wastelands wrecks us. Displacer can still hold back the onslaught like it's nothing. G3 my opponent had a board of Knight, Ooze, Mom and Jitte while I was clinging to my lands with Displacer and RiP on the board. I got wasted 4 times and my opponent still hit a brick was since his 1/1 and 2/2s couldn't do shit against my 3/3 and any attempt in attacking with Jitte resulted in flickering. I was close to brink of death before he timed out (he played at a glacial pace), just as I was about to stabilize at 1 life (http://i.imgur.com/rJhofiP.jpg).

[ChemicalBurns]

So, hopefully everyone's watched Mengucci's Legacy video series. He's playing a pretty typical Colourless Aggro (Thorns, SSG, Reshaper in main - which looks awful in his MU vs. Miracles, though he defeats Miracles with the late-game power of Eye which is pretty awesome, no Wastelands, Factories instead) and it seems to work pretty well overall.

http://www.channelfireball.com/videos/channel-mengucci-legacy-colorless-eldrazi/

Also, after MD.Ghost's suggestion and after seeing Displacer work amazingly for a few people this weekend in a Modern GPT (different format, but the card was still very impressive in their UW Eldrazi lists that both Top 8ed) I think MonoBlue is going to be shelved (although I think it can be reasonably strong) for a UW version with a more diverse sideboard. Here's where I'm at for now:

Creatures: (24)
4 Eldrazi Mimic
4 Endless One
4 Eldrazi Displacer
4 Eldrazi Skyspawner
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher

Non-Creature Spells: (12)
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Thorn of Amethyst
3 Mox Diamond
2 Warping Wail

Lands: (24)
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Eldrazi Temple
2 City of Traitors
3 Eye of Ugin
3 Cavern of Souls
4 Adarkar Wastes
3 Tundra
1 Karakas

Sideboard: (15)
2 Containment Priest
2 Disenchant
2 Rest in Peace
2 Drowner of Hope
2 Dismember
2 Warping Wail
1 Echoing Truth
1 Flusterstorm
1 Karakas

I love the sideboard options I've got here, though I do at times miss Revoker (semi-replaced by Disenchant, which I kind of want to be an ORing but instant speed is relevant vs. Moon), Jitte (could cut Dismembers for it, I guess, or even shave Flusterstorm). I also am tempted to cut one Displacer for one Dr. Owner, but I've heard it hyped so much by everyone that I'm cautious to do so. I also am considering putting basics over the Tundras - I was looking towards 2 Island 1 Plains over the three Tundras, since I beat Painter cleanly recently via Mox Diamond > Skyspawner > Smasher.

Also, Skyspawner has been generally excellent and I've never been sad to see it. I think it's the real key to the blue splash, along with Drowner (in my opinion) being greater than Endbringer.

Thoughts on this list?

EDIT:

Also Colourless Aggro 5-0ed a League. Notably has no acceleration, MD Endbringers and 3Balls, SB Leyline of the Void, Mindbreak Traps, Winter Orb (I know it's been mentioned, but yeah that's sweet), Contortion and has chosen Revoker over Reshapers in the main.

http://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/376596#online

[Barook]

I think WU can be a viable alternative to the GW build (which main appeal is World Breaker). You lose the flexibility of World Breaker, but gain some better creatures in exchange.

I'll keep on testing and refining the GW version, but I see potential in the WU build as well. Rasputin Dreamweaver might become a consideration again, too.

[civet five]

I think WU can be a viable alternative to the GW build (which main appeal is World Breaker). You lose the flexibility of World Breaker, but gain some better creatures in exchange.

I'll keep on testing and refining the GW version, but I see potential in the WU build as well. Rasputin Dreamweaver might become a consideration again, too.

Is the point of Rasputin to give you a Dark Ritual every turn? I must be missing something

[Barook]

Is the point of Rasputin to give you a Dark Ritual every turn? I must be missing something
It generates infinite mana with Displacer.

[civet five]

It generates infinite mana with Displacer.

Oh duh, the flicker is instant, not Eot.

But still, I'm struggling to see where the value is in setting up Displacer-Rasputin to go infinite without something to sink the mana into reliably - Rasputin doesn't benefit from all of our accelerators (and has dissynergy with the accelerator you want to have when you go infinite - Eye of Ugin). Once we do go infinite, wouldn't the best possible thing be Eye of Ugin --> Emrakul or something like a Trike in hand to kill them on the spot?

[Barook]

Oh duh, the flicker is instant, not Eot.

But still, I'm struggling to see where the value is in setting up Displacer-Rasputin to go infinite without something to sink the mana into reliably - Rasputin doesn't benefit from all of our accelerators (and has dissynergy with the accelerator you want to have when you go infinite - Eye of Ugin). Once we do go infinite, wouldn't the best possible thing be Eye of Ugin --> Emrakul or something like a Trike in hand to kill them on the spot?
Aside from getting infinite tap downs for the opposing team, both Eldrazi Skyspawner and Drowner of Hope can generate infinite creatures to overrun your opponent next turn. Might be too cute, though.

Edit:
When I don't have to fight the shitty interface or play like a braindead idiot, I can 5-0 with my GW list, too. Matches were 2x Sneak & Show, Maverick, Grixis Delver and Oops! All Spells.

[hofzge]

I won a bye tournament today for a bye at the Swiss Legacy Championship (20 people).

The list was close to all the white lists:
4x Ancient Tomb
4x Cavern of Souls
4x Eldrazi Temple
2x Eye of Ugin
2x Karakas
4x Plains
4x Wasteland
4x Warping Wail
4x Eldrazi Displacer
4x Eldrazi Mimic
2x Endbringer
3x Phyrexian Revoker
4x Reality Smasher
4x Thought-Knot Seer
4x Chalice of the Void
3x Prismatic Lens
4x Thorn of Amethyst

Sideboard (15)
2x Containment Priest
2x Disenchant
2x Dismember
2x Ratchet Bomb
3x Rest in Peace
1x Stony Silence
1x Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
2x Umezawa's Jitte

Prismatic Lens is due to not having any talismans...

The rounds:
Reanimator (Matej) 2-0 Chalice and Displacer help
Lands (Tobias) 2-0 Both games i have Displacers and I draw a Wasteland for his Glacial Chasm
ANT (Pascal) 2-1 Chalices and a Sphere and MVP hought-Knot Seer
I am paired down and have to play...
4Color Loam (Dominique) 2-0 Hi Thought-Knot him and see a hand of Liliana (which I take), 2 Chalices and 3 Abrupt Decays -> I then play a REality Smasher-> I got to Warping Wail his 1st turn Dryad Arbor and he never drew a land after i Watelanded his Bayou

At 4-0 I draw and get first place as the ones at 10 points also drew.

Quarter against BUG Delver (Raphael) 2-1
Semis against ANT (Pascal again) 2-1
Final against a Big Red -Monored Sneak Attack (Thierry) 2-1

Decklists are here: http://forum.swissmtg.ch/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=1269&p=6179#p6179

[civet five]

Aside from getting infinite tap downs for the opposing team, both Eldrazi Skyspawner and Drowner of Hope can generate infinite creatures to overrun your opponent next turn. Might be too cute, though.

Yup, that's a possibility too, but it's also a 3 creature combo for a bad Twin kill that requires you pass the turn. With the same 6 mana you can just cast Drowner of Hope, tap down some blockers, and then blink him to get more tap downs.

I think building a deck specifically around Rasputin Dreamweaver and Eldrazi Displacer has merits as they are both tough to kill creatures and all-but-immune to Abrupt Decay and Bolt, but if you go to all of the work to assemble it you want to pretty much end the game on the spot. Thinking of it from the perspective of 12Post, you would want to stay alive long enough to get the mana + Eye of Ugin to hardcast Emrakul. Otherwise, its just another 3 card combo in Legacy.

I am really bullish on the GW and W builds; Displacer-Priest is probably all the deck needs to clear the way.

[Barook]

The rounds:
Reanimator (Matej) 2-0 Chalice and Displacer help
Lands (Tobias) 2-0 Both games i have Displacers and I draw a Wasteland for his Glacial Chasm
ANT (Pascal) 2-1 Chalices and a Sphere and MVP hought-Knot Seer
I am paired down and have to play...
4Color Loam (Dominique) 2-0 Hi Thought-Knot him and see a hand of Liliana (which I take), 2 Chalices and 3 Abrupt Decays -> I then play a REality Smasher-> I got to Warping Wail his 1st turn Dryad Arbor and he never drew a land after i Watelanded his Bayou

At 4-0 I draw and get first place as the ones at 10 points also drew.

Quarter against BUG Delver (Raphael) 2-1
Semis against ANT (Pascal again) 2-1
Final against a Big Red -Monored Sneak Attack (Thierry) 2-1

Decklists are here: http://forum.swissmtg.ch/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=1269&p=6179#p6179
How relevant was Displacer vs BUG Delver and Big Red?



I am really bullish on the GW and W builds; Displacer-Priest is probably all the deck needs to clear the way.
Both the Mono C and White-based builds put up results. I'm firmly in the white camp since Displacer deals with so many problematic cards. Containment Priest and Karakas being highly synergistic hate pieces is just the icing on the cake.

[mistercakes]

How relevant was Displacer vs BUG Delver and Big Red?


Both the Mono C and White-based builds put up results. I'm firmly in the white camp since Displacer deals with so many problematic cards. Containment Priest and Karakas being highly synergistic hate pieces is just the icing on the cake.

how was it in general with 20 lands + only 3 mana rocks?

i notice no ancient tombs and no city of traitors

[zyren]

We could do something like WUG midrange if we use corrupted crossroads. Toying around with barook's list and adding blue to it i got something like this:

Creatures: (19)
3 Eldrazi Skyspawner
4 Eldrazi Displacer
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
2 drowner of hope
2 world breaker

Non-Creature Spells: (1)
4 Chalice of the Void
3 mox diamond
1 talisman of unity
1 talisman of dominance
2 all is dust
3 Warping Wail
1 umezawa's jitte
1 sword of light and shadow

Lands: (25)
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 corrupted crossroads
1 City of Traitors
3 Eye of Ugin
4 Cavern of Souls
3 Adarkar Wastes
1 brushland
1 Karakas

Sideboard: (15)
3 Containment Priest
3 Rest in Peace
2 karakas
3 thorn of amethyst
1 all is dust
1 warping wail
2 dismember


You sacrifice some land utility for better creatures. Think it might be worth the tradeoff?

[Barook]

You sacrifice some land utility for better creatures. Think it might be worth the tradeoff?
Test it. That's the only way we can learn. 12 white actual sources post-board to support both Priest and RiP, as I run the same amount.

Between Moxen, Crossroads and Cavern, I don't think colored mana should be an issue. My question is if dropping the Factories for blue Eldrazi is worth it. I like how they dodge sorcery speed removal.

[bruizar]

Oh duh, the flicker is instant, not Eot.

But still, I'm struggling to see where the value is in setting up Displacer-Rasputin to go infinite without something to sink the mana into reliably - Rasputin doesn't benefit from all of our accelerators (and has dissynergy with the accelerator you want to have when you go infinite - Eye of Ugin). Once we do go infinite, wouldn't the best possible thing be Eye of Ugin --> Emrakul or something like a Trike in hand to kill them on the spot?

All you need is a thought knot seer and draw / exile their decks. Emrakul isn't required.

[psly4mne]

If you're going to go for the infinite combo (not that it's necessarily a good idea), Brood Monitor and even Emrakul's Hatcher seem better than Rasputin Dreamweaver just because they're Eldrazi.

[iostream]

Interesting build from Patrunkenphat7: http://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/376997#paper

Tearing it up in the Leagues! I'd like to hear some commentary about that sideboard, if you see this. It's really unconventional!

[Fox]

Is the infinite mana combo worth pursuing over "when you cast" recursions? I see the mill combo, which is still broken by instant speed removal they can draw. It feels like that late in the game you could tutor and cavern-cast uncounterable Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger protected by karakas and stone rain people out of the game if it got to that point.

[Barook]

I'm currently don't have space for it, but has anybody with the white splash tested Crib Swap as removal spell for problematic creatures yet?

It dodges Chalice @1 and is an Eldrazi spell for both Temple and Eye. The token it produces shouldn't matter much.

[ChemicalBurns]

I'm currently don't have space for it, but has anybody with the white splash tested Crib Swap as removal spell for problematic creatures yet?

It dodges Chalice @1 and is an Eldrazi spell for both Temple and Eye. The token it produces shouldn't matter much.

Uhhh, I don't think this works. Eye and Temple need colourless Eldrazi spells.

[bruizar]

Uhhh, I don't think this works. Eye and Temple need colourless Eldrazi spells.

That was almost too good :)

[josch6083]

I´d like to hear your oppinion on Phyrexian Metamorph. I´ve been testing it for a while and it seems pretty nice.
Good against show and tell/reanimator.
and it can be your 5th thought knot seer or reality smasher. or you copy opponents jitte or sword. Just thinking of a second copy main and cut 1 of 2 endbringers. the other endbringer goes to my sideboard. for those who play manlands. it can be a factory too and produce mana if you want it to.
just let me hear your ideas. thanks

[MD.Ghost]

Monday Morning and a lot of posts here to answer - i like it, we have a good amount of stuff to discuss and a solid player base (and this deck is still "under development"! :cool:



When I don't have to fight the shitty interface or play like a braindead idiot, I can 5-0 with my GW list, too. Matches were 2x Sneak & Show, Maverick, Grixis Delver and Oops! All Spells.

Gratz! Nice Run, seems it was a good idea to unleash the list at MODO.


I won a bye tournament today for a bye at the Swiss Legacy Championship (20 people).


Gratz! Seems the white Splash work for more Players - it will be serious for other decks, because the current ideas "how to win vs eldrazi" will not work so well against the color versions.


I am really bullish on the GW and W builds; Displacer-Priest is probably all the deck needs to clear the way.

Yes, Displacer is really good, played him since i start brewing with Eldrazi.


All you need is a thought knot seer and draw / exile their decks. Emrakul isn't required.

That should work well enough, especially with Eye of Ugin, we not need to include a "Combo Fatty" like Emrakul at UW builds. Fun Fact: The Mill-Combo is a big middle finger vs opponents that try to hide behind Ensnaring Bride, Moat (Hello Skyspawner) etc. For the UW Lists, i am not sold on the "Aggro" versions wit Mimic, Endless One etc. - i think it is a waste of space (8 slots!), because Skyspawner will only be another toy in this build which dies to something like pyroclasm (a card that should not affect Eldrazi), i remember a post here, where someone get his mimics killed by Golgari Charm (:laugh:).

I still think UW lists can work, but i would start with a build kind of similar like the GW Midrange Lists. Cut 2 World Breaker and 2 Conduit of Ruin and 2 Endless One and you have space for 2 Drowner of Hope and 4 Eldrazi Skyspawner. Switch Lands and Talisman to UW colors and try to find a Space for 1 Dreamweaver if you like the Combo (or use it as a side tech).

What i really like at the UW Lists is, that Skyspawner can block flyers from Delver to 20/20 Tokens and works well as an evasive Jitte carrier. Drowner also impacts the field well enough, both can also combo with Displacer. I also underestimate the Eldrazi Tokens, with Eye of Ugin you can cast Skyspawner and sac the Token for more Eldrazi AND the tokens will act as a "Anti Moon" Tool (i really like it!) and they can also open mana for Instants like Warping Wail etc.

I can see something like:

Lands: 4 Tombs, 4 Temple, 4 Cavern, 2-3 City, 2-3 Eye, 2 Karakas and special ones:0-1 Plain, 0-1 Island as a start for brewing, i cut Mishra/Waste stuff because you maybe need more colored mana. Basic Lands can be nice for Sideboard Cards or to enable Skyspawner/Drowner which lead to tokens which leads to Seer/Smasher etc.

Creatures: 4 Displacer, 4 Skyspawaner, 4 Seer, 4 Smasher, 2 Drowner and special ones: 1 Dreamweaver, 1 Metamorph (can also be 2 Dream or 2 Meta etc.)

Rest: 4 Chalice, 2 Mox, 3 Talisman, 2 Jitte, 4 Wail similar to GW, but since the build had no top end with World Breaker and can generate Mana with Skysspawner/Drowner we can talk about other configurations like 4 Mox and 1 Slot for other cards etc.

EDIT: i quickly build it here: http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/uw-eldrazi-brew/ (you can playtest it at your browser :cool: )


Interesting build from Patrunkenphat7: http://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/376997#paper
Tearing it up in the Leagues! I'd like to hear some commentary about that sideboard, if you see this. It's really unconventional!

I don't like the Sword main, with his land base i would switch it with a Crucible (!) - should work well better (remember he also uses trinisphere).

Side is ok, i miss some Thorns vs Burn, but my first sketch of Eldrazi also included Mindbreak Trap as an T0-1 Out if you aren't able to use Chalice. But afterall, Storm isn't such a bad matchup and Thorn can also be used for other Combos etc. Leyline is ok for colorless, it is really hard for some Graveyard-Decks to win against it. Winter Orb - while it is still nice with all the :2:Lands we can use - should only be strong vs Control - a archetype we should not fear. Against lands he has Wastelands, Endbringer, Leylines, Chalice at 1 (Crop Rotation, Gamble if you kill Loam/PFire with Grave Hate) and if you follow my advise 1 Crucible Main (and maybe 1 more at Side with our own Wastelands).


I´d like to hear your oppinion to Phyrexian Metamorph. I´m testing it for a while and it seems pretty nice.
Good against show and tell/reanimator.
and it can be your 5th thought knot seer or reality smasher. or you copy opponents jitte or sword. Just thinking of a second copy main and cut 1 of 2 endbringers. the other endbringer goes to my sideboard. for those who play manlands. it can be a factory too and produce mana if you want it to.
just let me hear your ideas. thanks

I suggested Metamorph since i play with Displacer and sometimes tested one copy of it - the biggest issue is, find the right place for this tool. I talked with Barook about it, his idea was to cut both Endless One from GW which opens space for 2 instead of 1 Metamorph Copy. I think at MODO (lots of Sneak, Reanimate etc.) this tech is ok. My problem is, that the build only runs 18 creatures, so you cut 2 of them for a card, that sometimes do nothing (empty field) and is not an eldrazi (for temple, eye etc.). Ok sometimes you can copy Mishra or Talisman, but this isn' the real deal with Metamorph :laugh:. Yes Endless One is the weakest creature at this build (i board both copies ot very often), but it is still sometimes nice as a stupid Beater which can be anything from "oops i need something on the field while my lands are blown up vs Wastelands" to "i can be bigger than your gofy" till "Deal with me or i will win this game as a finisher". For Metamorph it seems nice if you can copy Seer/Smasher (yesterday i overrun my opponent with Smasher, next Turn 2nd Smasher, next Turn Metamorph Smasher - pretty hard to beat) Overall i am still unsure about both creatures - this slots are still open for improvements or meta experiments.

[hofzge]

how was it in general with 20 lands + only 3 mana rocks?

i notice no ancient tombs and no city of traitors

My bad: I forgot the Tomb - I think you cannot play this deck without Ancient Tomb!


How relevant was Displacer vs BUG Delver and Big Red?
Against Big Red it mostly locks them out of winning with Emrakul, Worldspine Wurm, Wurmcoil Engine & Inferno Titan (Their ways of winning mostly involve creatures and attacking except Pyromancy).
Against Delver variants it makes Delver less of a danger, as you can always "block" it - normally fliers are problematic and your only out is to race them. Also you can disable Tarmogoyfs as you like.

[MD.Ghost]

@UW Eldrazi i browsed through some cards (search for exploits like Dreamweaver), i found Rishadan Brigand to a way to annoy some opponents. With Displacer it should be able to generate some serious trouble and the "Pirate" :laugh: is a bit easier to cast and it is only a 2 card combo, which improves with Dreamweaver.

The nice thing is, that you can add "cute" stuff like this with only one or two slots and can still build the core very streamlined to smash your opponent with some tentacles.

For everyone my :u::w: list from the link above:

Land (25)
4x Adarkar Wastes
4x Ancient Tomb
4x Cavern of Souls
3x City of Traitors
4x Eldrazi Temple
3x Eye of Ugin
1x Island
1x Karakas
1x Plains

Instant (4)
4x Warping Wail

Creature (21)
4x Eldrazi Displacer
4x Eldrazi Skyspawner
4x Reality Smasher
4x Thought-Knot Seer
2x Drowner of Hope
2x Phyrexian Metamorph
1x Rasputin Dreamweaver

Artifact (10)
4x Chalice of the Void
4x Mox Diamond
2x Umezawa's Jitte

I would recommend the proven W cards for the first sideboard cards: Rest in Peace, Containment Priest

As Barook and i mentioned RiP not only covers Reanimate/Dredge, it is also usefull against Gofy, Loam (Lands/Aggro) and can do some Splashdamage vs Storm. Containment Priest is usefull enough against various matchups and also a combo with displacer, besides it "disable" the other combos from UW.

What i like from Drowner: You can cast him with all your mana and - thanks to the pair of Scions - you are still able to cast Wail if needed.

[bruizar]

I think I like phantasmal image a little bit more than phyrexian metamorph. Ancient Tombs plus Phyrexian Mana is rather taxing, and phantasmal image gets the job done just as well. You can't displace phantasmal image, but for 1U, you have an extra Thought-Knot Seer or Reality Smasher. That frees up a lot of mana for either (a) an extra threat (b) keeping mana open for displacer or warping wail (c) have things to cast when you're getting wastelanded. Perhaps, since we're running Sol Land, Phyrexian Metamorph is still better but I like how cheap and castable phantasmal image is.

@MD.Ghost:
That list looks good

[Patrunkenphat7]

Interesting build from Patrunkenphat7: http://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/376997#paper

Tearing it up in the Leagues! I'd like to hear some commentary about that sideboard, if you see this. It's really unconventional!

Thanks, man! We actually just recorded a podcast about my list last night, and we will post either today or tomorrow. I'll make a few points here though. For reference my SB is this:
1 Dismember
3 Spatial Contortion
2 Ratchet Bomb
3 Winter Orb
4 Leyline of the Void
2 Mindbreak Trap

Overall I tried to address some of the difficult matchups with the sideboard as well as have some solid tools for all the popular matchups so that you can board out your suboptimal cards against almost everything.

I perceive fast graveyard combo and Lands to be pretty difficult, and the best graveyard hate against these decks is Leyline of the Void. Against decks like Reanimator and Dredge they don't have an opportunity to interact with your hate before it gets into play or turn 1 combo when you're on the draw. I know it's a bit of a high variance card, but I also don't think it's a good gameplan to count on drawing your hate off the top with this deck. Also against Lands a single Crypt usually doesn't cut it.

Winter Orb has been awesome against Miracles and Lands. Miracles is a great matchup already, but it's also probably the most popular matchup online. I wanted to be able to board out some of the poor cards like Dismember, and Orb is a bomb if you can stick it for the majority of the game. Against Lands it helps mitigate their Maze of Ith and Punishing Fire engines so that you can aggro them out. It helps to have Revoker on Mox Diamond in play. With Eyes and all the Sol Lands we can easily break parity with this card.

I like Mindbreak Trap because it lets you combat Storm on a different axis (like Warping Wail). Storm has to board in Abrupt Decays and maybe even Chain of Vapors, and they will board out some discard to make room. I'm not really trying to "get" them with this card, as they have Probes to see it, but I have found that they often just can't win even if they know you have it. It's also great against Belcher and Oops All Spells, and while these decks are not very popular they can be difficult matchups.

The removal package is good against Delver because the way Delver generally beats you is with a disruptive aggro draw. The Spatials are great at knocking them off their turn 1 Delver gameplan. My board plan against them is to take out the Revokers and Endbringers for the removal. Against D+T I like to board out 4 Chalice and 2 Trinisphere for the 6 removal package.

I'll post our episode in the articles and format discussion when it's up on our site!

[caprino]

@UW Eldrazi i browsed through some cards (search for exploits like Dreamweaver), i found Rishadan Brigand to a way to annoy some opponents. With Displacer it should be able to generate some serious trouble and the "Pirate" :laugh: is a bit easier to cast and it is only a 2 card combo, which improves with Dreamweaver.

The nice thing is, that you can add "cute" stuff like this with only one or two slots and can still build the core very streamlined to smash your opponent with some tentacles.

For everyone my :u::w: list from the link above:

Land (25)
4x Adarkar Wastes
4x Ancient Tomb
4x Cavern of Souls
3x City of Traitors
4x Eldrazi Temple
3x Eye of Ugin
1x Island
1x Karakas
1x Plains

Instant (4)
4x Warping Wail

Creature (21)
4x Eldrazi Displacer
4x Eldrazi Skyspawner
4x Reality Smasher
4x Thought-Knot Seer
2x Drowner of Hope
2x Phyrexian Metamorph
1x Rasputin Dreamweaver

Artifact (10)
4x Chalice of the Void
4x Mox Diamond
2x Umezawa's Jitte

I would recommend the proven W cards for the first sideboard cards: Rest in Peace, Containment Priest

As Barook and i mentioned RiP not only covers Reanimate/Dredge, it is also usefull against Gofy, Loam (Lands/Aggro) and can do some Splashdamage vs Storm. Containment Priest is usefull enough against various matchups and also a combo with displacer, besides it "disable" the other combos from UW.

What i like from Drowner: You can cast him with all your mana and - thanks to the pair of Scions - you are still able to cast Wail if needed.

why Rasputin Dreamweaver ?

[Krasman]

why Rasputin Dreamweaver ?

You can make an infinite mana loop with it and Displacer; then with any token spawning Eldrazi you can make infinite creatures.

[slayjay]

You can make an infinite mana loop with it and Displacer; then with any token spawning Eldrazi you can make infinite creatures.

But there is no way to find him instead of randomly draw or am I forgetting something?

[bruizar]

But there is no way to find him instead of randomly draw or am I forgetting something?

Yes, and then you cast and win the game

[caprino]

@UW Eldrazi i browsed through some cards (search for exploits like Dreamweaver), i found Rishadan Brigand to a way to annoy some opponents. With Displacer it should be able to generate some serious trouble and the "Pirate" :laugh: is a bit easier to cast and it is only a 2 card combo, which improves with Dreamweaver.

The nice thing is, that you can add "cute" stuff like this with only one or two slots and can still build the core very streamlined to smash your opponent with some tentacles.

For everyone my :u::w: list from the link above:

Land (25)
4x Adarkar Wastes
4x Ancient Tomb
4x Cavern of Souls
3x City of Traitors
4x Eldrazi Temple
3x Eye of Ugin
1x Island
1x Karakas
1x Plains

Instant (4)
4x Warping Wail

Creature (21)
4x Eldrazi Displacer
4x Eldrazi Skyspawner
4x Reality Smasher
4x Thought-Knot Seer
2x Drowner of Hope
2x Phyrexian Metamorph
1x Rasputin Dreamweaver

Artifact (10)
4x Chalice of the Void
4x Mox Diamond
2x Umezawa's Jitte

I would recommend the proven W cards for the first sideboard cards: Rest in Peace, Containment Priest

As Barook and i mentioned RiP not only covers Reanimate/Dredge, it is also usefull against Gofy, Loam (Lands/Aggro) and can do some Splashdamage vs Storm. Containment Priest is usefull enough against various matchups and also a combo with displacer, besides it "disable" the other combos from UW.

What i like from Drowner: You can cast him with all your mana and - thanks to the pair of Scions - you are still able to cast Wail if needed.
an example of a side?

[slayjay]

Yes, and then you cast and win the game

Do not get me wrong. I absolutely love excentric combos that wins on the spot. But you have no draw or tutor for this one off rasputin. So it is just a way out if the ground is stalled (bridge, moat) and a solid back up plan, right? Is it worth to run more rasputins, or are they too hard to cast?

[Delvis]

Took my testing group's Shops list to the big event Sunday. We fielded three copies, going 4-2, 3-3, and 3-3.

I'll be honest, I'm a little disappointed in the deck's performance, despite it being only my second tournament with it. As we all know, Legacy is a format that rewards experienced players more than it does broken decks. I expected at least one of us to Top 8, and one of us nearly did, but he misplayed against Lands during his win-and-in in round 5 - although his opponent ripped a savage topdeck to climb in through the window he opened.

My matchups were RUG Delver, Burn, Lands, colorless Eldrazi mirror, Burn again, and Esper Mentor.

A brief overview of the tournament for me:
- Round 1, I won game 1 on the back of an unstoppable 3/3 Endless One, then lost game 2 to Price of Progress. Yeah, in RUG Delver. He had 4 copies the in the board. He then won game 3 when I couldn't keep up with Tarmogoyfs. I didn't see him again all day so I'm pretty sure he scrubbed out immediately after beating me, because my breakers were shit all day.
- Round 2, I 2-0'd Burn. The matchup is fairly draw dependent; if you get a hand that depends on Ancient Tomb, you're going to have a bad time. However, you can lock them under Chalice and Thorn/Trinisphere and then play large creatures that they can't keep pace with.
- Round 3, I faced Dave Long on Lands. Again. I've played him in this tournament series three times out of the four times I've attended. I lose game 3 due to a misplay: I didn't leave my Wasteland up and he killed me with a Marit Lage. Our board plan also involved boarding out Metamorph since we expected them to go off end step, but they seem to play around Wasteland a lot more than any kind of removal, which makes sense. I inform my time of this for future matches.
- Round 4, I play the colorless Eldrazi mirror. His deck has Kozilek (the OG one), but I didn't see any artifact acceleration. I name Monolith with my Revokers just in case and bury him under my castable Eldrazi. He seemed unfamiliar with the format/rules, because he kept naming Thought-Knot Seer with his Revokers. Did it in all three games.
- Round 5 was Burn again, but this player was more experienced. I lose game 1 to a misplayed alpha strike (overcommitted my creatures and died to him topdecking a burn spell). I win game 2 but lose game 3 to Smash to Smithereens on my Chalices.
- The final round was against a guy playing an absolutely horrible Esper Mentor deck. He came into the round at 1-3-1 and left at 1-4-1. Not much to say here. Esper Mentor is solidly tier 4. Cavern did a lot of work here.

I finished 28th, well outside of prize range. The 4-2 player made prizes. The other 3-3 player in our group opened 0-2 after facing Lands and Shardless back-to-back. Once you're in that bracket in a tournament this small (68 players IIRC), your results are basically void because you're just going to face shitty decks/players for the rest of the day.

All in all, we seem to have angered the pairings gods. This build crushes blue decks (except apparently Shardless, although I haven't played that match yet) and I played two of them all day, and one of them beat me with janky sideboard tech. We are heavily favored against Storm and Miracles, and I don't think any of the three of us played either of those decks all day. It was a weird metagame composition, very different from what it's been recently at that store.

We are thinking of some tweaks to the deck. We're looking closely at Eldrazi Obligator and Eldrazi Displacer, and I'll probably be testing Obligator out along with Corrupted Crossroads to help guarantee I have the colored mana ready. I think the other two members of my group will be at SCG Philly this weekend, but I won't be going. I already spent all my money picking up the cards for the deck.

[bruizar]

Do not get me wrong. I absolutely love excentric combos that wins on the spot. But you have no draw or tutor for this one off rasputin. So it is just a way out if the ground is stalled (bridge, moat) and a solid back up plan, right? Is it worth to run more rasputins, or are they too hard to cast?

I htink it's still very much in the testing phase. People are just trying a one off Rasputin to see how castable he is. I have no idea how hard they are to cast yet, but I do know that you do not need to have Displacer available per se with Rasputin, because if you have Eye of Ugin you can immediately sink -7 from Rasputin in Eye and find the missing Displacer, then go off next turn.