Shadows over Innistrad

[Darkenslight]

This card seems insane.

Yup. Control got a crazy new tool.

And in Standard and Modern, you also have Ojutai's Command to bring it back from the bin.

[bruizar]

This shit also can resolve at istant speed any board in any mu.
This shit can basicly break elves combos, kill marit lage, fuck with mentor and pyro, resolve empty, block tinker, resolve entreat, likely fuck hard with show and tell and much much more.

Looks legit to me

a little bit too legit if you ask me. I don't see why we need 2 mana blue creatures that are bigger than goyf and have a built in sweeper in them

Actually, I see this card more as a ratchet bomb that turns into a 2 to 3 turn clock. Pop it instantly EOT, attack twice -> win

[TsumiBand]

a little bit too legit if you ask me. I don't see why we need 2 mana blue creatures that are bigger than goyf and have a built in sweeper in them

I mean, you have to cast four fucking spells though, what Blue deck is ever going to do tha--*falls down stairs, lands on recently escaped rabid moose, dies every day for a month*

[Richard Cheese]

a little bit too legit if you ask me. I don't see why we need 2 mana blue creatures that are bigger than goyf and have a built in sweeper in them

Actually, I see this card more as a ratchet bomb that turns into a 2 to 3 turn clock. Pop it instantly EOT, attack twice -> win

Because the hand and the stack were not enough. Blue must control all the zones. All hail our watery overlords.

[Noctalor]

I mean, you have to cast four fucking spells though, what Blue deck is ever going to do tha--*falls down stairs, lands on recently escaped rabid moose, dies every day for a month*

4 Ponder
4 Brainstorm
4 Daze
4 Force
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Delver
4 Deathrite
3 of this new bullshit
4 Young Pyro


Ez life?

[MaximumC]

That card is good times, but I don't think it's really much more powerful than Ensoul Artifact. Blue seems to be the color of "ridiculously under costed monsters with easy to satisfy conditions" ever since Delver of Secrets. OH WELL time to make the all-blue Cube, since other colors don't really exist.

Anyhoo, while this guy is awesome, I think Thraban Inspector will make more waves. It's a simple 1/2 for W that poops out a Clue token when it enters the battlefield. This is HUGE. Like, MEGA HUGE. "What are you talking about?" you ask. "Well," I answer, "Shape Anew exists. Now there's a reliable 1-drop that lets you get your Blightsteel easily. Add some mix to this of the Thopter-generating cards from Origins and the Golem-generating cards from New Phyrexia and, brother, you got yourself a deck. Not having to rely on resolving a 3-drop to combo out here is very important, and I think we're gonna see Shape Anew really take off in Modern now.

[Bobmans]

4 Ponder
4 Brainstorm
4 Daze
4 Force
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Delver
4 Deathrite
3 of this new bullshit
4 Young Pyro


Ez life?
Omg, breaking the format.

[Dice_Box]

Well on the bright side it does not fit perfectly into tempo because you do not want to wipe your own board. I think I want to go back to the deck with 6 main deck REB's.

[Ace/Homebrew]

You can always go for bad combos using hex parasite
Based on the way it is worded, it looks like you can remove all the counters with Hex Parasite or Vampire Hexmage, but still need to cast an instant or sorcery to flip it, right?

I don't think this card has what it takes to Legacy...

[TsumiBand]

lolol you just resolve it and then next turn you cast 3 Bolt variants and a Fireblast. What are they gonna do, block? GG, new meta confirm

[supremePINEAPPLE]

Haha, thing in the ice is perfect for all those blue players losing to eldrazi. That card seems pretty good in legacy and modern.

[Noctalor]

http://magiccards.info/scans/en/rav/90.jpg

OH MY FUCKING GOD

[Cire]

img. hunted horror
OH MY FUCKING GOD

Best combo ever! :tongue:

[bruizar]

OH MY FUCKING GOD


Overreaction? Perhaps. This is just lazy-ass design though. You can point to Hunted Horror, which kills you if you don't fix its draw back, or you can look at Kederekt Leviathan and see how much mana a card like this should be worth.

You can't tell me that the drawback of having to cast 4 spells (read: play magic) is worth 6 mana (and you get a 7/8 instead of a 5/5)....

If you want to push the power level, please do so OUTSIDE of blue for once.

[HSCK]

Based on the way it is worded, it looks like you can remove all the counters with Hex Parasite or Vampire Hexmage, but still need to cast an instant or sorcery to flip it, right?

I don't think this card has what it takes to Legacy...

Low investment with gigantic upside sounds like a Legacy card to me....

[Noctalor]

Overreaction? Perhaps. This is just lazy-ass design though. You can point to Hunted Horror, which kills you if you don't fix its draw back, or you can look at Kederekt Leviathan and see how much mana a card like this should be worth.

You can't tell me that the drawback of having to cast 4 spells (read: play magic) is worth 6 mana (and you get a 7/8 instead of a 5/5)....

Sure thats a bad combo, but maybe is good enought for modern, and is just 100% pure swag

[Cire]

Why not just a monoblue deck with this card, delver, cantrip's, cantrip cartel and then Main/Deck SB's into Back to Basic to crush Eldrazi :smile:

[bruizar]

I get that they want to hype sets, but these quasi-drawbacks are so uninteresting to me. More interestingly than this lame blue card, there were rumors of marit lage returning to Innistrad and this card def confirms it.

[Noctalor]

Why not just a monoblue deck with this card, delver, cantrip's, cantrip cartel and then Main/Deck SB's into Back to Basic to crush Eldrazi :smile:

Dunno, looks way too good in a UR burn shell, you get fireblast as a free spell, and if you beat for 7 at turn 3 you likely are going in for a killing blow already :confused:

[iamajellydonut]

Seems fair.

[Richard Cheese]

Other interesting horrors:


Phyrexian Revoker
Spellskite
Chasm Skulker
Phyrexian Obliterator

[Chatto]

Based on the way it is worded, it looks like you can remove all the counters with Hex Parasite or Vampire Hexmage, but still need to cast an instant or sorcery to flip it, right?

I don't think this card has what it takes to Legacy...

I don't think so... Just remove the counters and it flips.

[iamajellydonut]

Cool. Despite having my finger on the F5 trigger and starting out my order when the "in stock" was 40, Star City's shitty website ensured that I will have zero coming to me in the mail.

[The Nobodys]

I don't think so... Just remove the counters and it flips.

The flip trigger happens on an instant or sorcery spell being cast.

[Cire]

Other interesting horrors:


Phyrexian Revoker
Spellskite
Chasm Skulker
Phyrexian Obliterator


I don't think horror deck is the best way to approach this card, but also:

Mesmeric Fiend
Phyrexian Negator
Any Changeling . . .

[Richard Cheese]

The flip trigger happens on an instant or sorcery spell being cast.

Yeah, it's not a state trigger like Dark Depths. I believe it will only check when you cast an instant/sorcery.

[Poron]

that's a perfect Miracle tool.

It Terminus' EOT at the price of.. a Predict .. lol
you draw 2 cards and mill a useless one while you get to wype his board and swing for 7 on an empty board with CounterTop/Jace already set.

while not transformed it chump blocks up to Mongoose..

ty wizards

[Ephemeron]

This seems pretty cool in a U/R prowess deck. Play your little dudes and this early on, once the opponent has stabilized with goyf or whatever just flip this big dumb thing, play your hasty prowess dudes again and kill them.

[Chatto]

The flip trigger happens on an instant or sorcery spell being cast.


Yeah, it's not a state trigger like Dark Depths. I believe it will only check when you cast an instant/sorcery.

Well, whether Hexmage works or not: still a very very good card in my opinion :smile:

[tescrin]

I think you're all overreacting. It's a bad topdeck, it doesn't do anything on its own, and if you have a proactive plan it'll probably be removed in response to spell #4 while you're probing and stuff. It still dies to decay and is really bad against Plow. What's more? As you play your proactive plan that means you probably have to run less counter spells/dudes and more cantrips/discard(depending on your deck style.) The closest thing he's similar to is Pyro, and you know you'd rather run Pyro.

No one is removing Goyf for this guy. No one is removing True Name for this guy. No one is removing Delver, Pyro, or Deathrite or even nimble mongoose for him either. I think you could argue that its' alright for control, but why not just run Mentor who is much more difficult to answer?

Consider the fact that by the time this flips you'd have Pyro/Mentor with 4 tokens, much harder to answer and the same number of turns it'll require to attack. The difference? They're much less vulnerable to removal and have multiple uses, and weren't useless on your way to spell #4. Who loses games in a position like that? Consider all those "last ponder for a dude; This fucking guy!?" that will happen.

Don't let me discourage you from buying 20 playsets, but seriously, it's worse than other control creatures, it's worse than Tempo creatures, I don't see this being a thing. It dies to everything but Bolt, it's weak to Thalia and "dies" to Flickerwisp.

https://i.imgflip.com/10f36x.jpg (https://imgflip.com/i/10f36x)

[Barook]

And just when you thought Eldrazi could dent the blue dominance a bit, they print dumb shit like this.

Goddamnit, Wizards.

[maharis]

Cool. Despite having my finger on the F5 trigger and starting out my order when the "in stock" was 40, Star City's shitty website ensured that I will have zero coming to me in the mail.

How much were they? I just picked up for $13 shipped at $2.49 per card. I think it's a worthwhile gamble.

You can definitely hexmage this thing then put Gut Shot on the stack btw

[Di]

Thing in the Ice is awesome. Caverns on horror here I come!

But seriously, am I the only one who at least wishes they could come up with more inspiring card names? Thing in the Ice, Shard of Broken Glass, it's just terrible. The creativity team gets an F- for this.

[bruizar]

Text
Although I agree with you, I still think this card is bullshit in terms of power level.

[Dice_Box]

I hate international shipping.

[Ace/Homebrew]

I think you're all overreacting.

No one is removing Goyf for this guy. No one is removing True Name for this guy. No one is removing Delver, Pyro, or Deathrite or even nimble mongoose for him either.
It's a shiny new toy. While the old toys no longer glisten like they used to, they are still more powerful.

Also worth discussing... Wizards changed the rules on double-face cards. The change actually worth discussing is that the CMC of the card is the printed cost on the front, regardless of which face is up. :rolleyes:

[Lemnear]

Thank god MTG has no free spells or cheap spells which replace themselves to turn this on quickly ... oh wait!

[iamajellydonut]

How much were they? I just picked up for $13 shipped at $2.49 per card. I think it's a worthwhile gamble.

They were $2ea, but I did end up picking up some of the $2.49s and then placed an order on eBay for a few more.

[maharis]

I'm not saying the card is definitely going to be great but it shares a lot of the same "issues" Jace, Vryn's Prodigy had (no value when it comes into play, dies to all, abrupt decay the flip side) and look how that turned out. This is immune to Bolt effects and also isn't GY dependent which I think makes up for the fact that it isn't quite as insane the turn it flips (while still being very, very good, a boardwipe for everything in U is nice). At the very least it might be good in Standard and if it is and doesn't work in Legacy I can probably get like 2/3 of my $ back. Hell I may buy another set.

[tescrin]

Thank god MTG has no free spells or cheap spells which replace themselves to turn this on quickly ... oh wait!

I refuted this, repetition is not an argument. Thank god you post intellectual points and not garbage-tier sarcasm.. OH WIAIT!?!!?

[maharis]

Also this thing triggers off you protecting it with Daze, FOW, and Misdirection

I love it. Flip it end of your turn with a Brainstorm and drop Standstill on mine. Buying another set rn

[bruizar]

Also this thing triggers off you protecting it with Daze, FOW, and Misdirection

I love it. Flip it end of your turn with a Brainstorm and drop Standstill on mine. Buying another set rn

Buy a few more for me please, I'll happily send you the money. The card is presaling for €7.50 in Europe.

[keys]

good post

This is a lot more like Quirion Dryad than Young Pyromancer/Tarmogoyf. Young Peezy's strength is going wide, while Tarmogoyf's strength is the lack of investment needed.

[Lemnear]

I refuted this, repetition is not an argument. Thank god you post intellectual points and not garbage-tier sarcasm.. OH WIAIT!?!!?

Sorry, but the main question here is, which Delver/cantrip shell is the best to support this and if combo can adopt it as a manplan versus resistors/hatebears/etc. Card is totally unnecessary to print at this point, now that Eldrazi seem to make cantrip shells actually reconsider their own streamlined deckbuilding.

[iamajellydonut]

Buy a few more for me please, I'll happily send you the money. The card is presaling for €7.50 in Europe.

Sold out at $4 on Star City and listed on eBay at $7.

[Richard Cheese]

I think you're all overreacting. It's a bad topdeck, it doesn't do anything on its own, and if you have a proactive plan it'll probably be removed in response to spell #4 while you're probing and stuff. It still dies to decay and is really bad against Plow. What's more? As you play your proactive plan that means you probably have to run less counter spells/dudes and more cantrips/discard(depending on your deck style.) The closest thing he's similar to is Pyro, and you know you'd rather run Pyro.

No one is removing Goyf for this guy. No one is removing True Name for this guy. No one is removing Delver, Pyro, or Deathrite or even nimble mongoose for him either. I think you could argue that its' alright for control, but why not just run Mentor who is much more difficult to answer?

Consider the fact that by the time this flips you'd have Pyro/Mentor with 4 tokens, much harder to answer and the same number of turns it'll require to attack. The difference? They're much less vulnerable to removal and have multiple uses, and weren't useless on your way to spell #4. Who loses games in a position like that? Consider all those "last ponder for a dude; This fucking guy!?" that will happen.

Don't let me discourage you from buying 20 playsets, but seriously, it's worse than other control creatures, it's worse than Tempo creatures, I don't see this being a thing. It dies to everything but Bolt, it's weak to Thalia and "dies" to Flickerwisp.


I think these are all fair points, and that it's not going to drastically change the format the way Delver did. I agree that it won't replace Mentor in control, but I do think there's the potential for this to take Goyf's spot in tempo decks. Mostly it's just troubling that this is one less thing Blue has to reach out to another color for - the cheap fatty. As Blue gets a bigger and bigger toolbox, manabases will become smoother and more resilient to hate, and the consistency of Blue decks will continue to extend their lead over everything else.

[Gheizen64]

Oh well card seems super stupid, and blue obviously, thx wotc

[Cire]

I think these are all fair points, and that it's not going to drastically change the format the way Delver did. I agree that it won't replace Mentor in control, but I do think there's the potential for this to take Goyf's spot in tempo decks. Mostly it's just troubling that this is one less thing Blue has to reach out to another color for - the cheap fatty. As Blue gets a bigger and bigger toolbox, manabases will become smoother and more resilient to hate, and the consistency of Blue decks will continue to extend their lead over everything else.

Exactly - eventually all those Grixis, U/R, Temur, whatever delver/tempo/aggro/control decks that utilize Cantrip cartel won't have to use another color. They can just be blue.

[Poron]

it's just Terminus 5-6 that leaves you with a creature that needs to be answered.

It's great against Eldrazi who have no way to answer it and 4 Warping Wail for Terminus.

If you set a Countertop before it you don't fear anything but Abrupt Decay and if he wastes a Decay on it, we are very happy.

CounterTop and ride this bitch to the win!!!

It's also great in Grixis because the spell-shell is very goos for YP

[keys]

it's just Terminus 5-6 that leaves you with a creature that needs to be answered.

It's great against Eldrazi who have no way to answer it and 4 Warping Wail for Terminus.

If you set a Countertop before it you don't fear anything but Abrupt Decay and if he wastes a Decay on it, we are very happy.

CounterTop and ride this bitch to the win!!!

Warping Wail kills this too.

[iatee]

Warping Wail kills this...

I think this probably will be an awkward fit in Miracles because it will lead you to sequence your spells differently than you'd otherwise want to. Mentor is a better win con since you can't chump block a go-wide strategy. Still the Miracles shell is strong enough that I am sure tossing a few of these in won't mean the deck is suddenly bad.

[Noctalor]

i honestly dont see how this can be that bad

4 Frozen Thinghy
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
4 Daze
4 Fireblast
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Volcanic Island
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Polluted Delta
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Goblin Guide
4 Force of Will
SB: 3 Red Elemental Blast
SB: 2 Flusterstorm
SB: 3 Eidolon of the Great Revel
SB: 3 Surgical Extraction
SB: 2 Grim Lavamancer
SB: 2 Smash to Smithereens

From what i saw every hand with the dude tend to goldfish at turn 3 if not answered, and can of grind and stand a fight thx to 8 counters 12 cantrips and a fuckton of burst

And i would hate shit like this to even be close to viable.

[Lemnear]

it's just Terminus 5-6 that leaves you with a creature that needs to be answered.

It's great against Eldrazi who have no way to answer it and 4 Warping Wail for Terminus.

If you set a Countertop before it you don't fear anything but Abrupt Decay and if he wastes a Decay on it, we are very happy.

CounterTop and ride this bitch to the win!!!

It's also great in Grixis because the spell-shell is very goos for YP

Maybe I go one step to far, but this looks like an "Or" rather than an "And" in terms of Thing & Terminus given its a better natural draw, clear the field at instant speed AND comes with a clock

[Poron]

i honestly dont see how this can be that bad

4 Frozen Thinghy
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
4 Daze
4 Fireblast
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Volcanic Island
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Polluted Delta
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Goblin Guide
4 Force of Will
SB: 3 Red Elemental Blast
SB: 2 Flusterstorm
SB: 3 Eidolon of the Great Revel
SB: 3 Surgical Extraction
SB: 2 Grim Lavamancer
SB: 2 Smash to Smithereens

From what i saw every hand with the dude tend to goldfish at turn 3 if not answered, and can of grind and stand a fight thx to 8 counters 12 cantrips and a fuckton of burst

And i would hate shit like this to even be close to viable.

4 Price of Progress

[GundamGuy]

Also worth discussing... Wizards changed the rules on double-face cards. The change actually worth discussing is that the CMC of the card is the printed cost on the front, regardless of which face is up. :rolleyes:


What? Well I was going to say Ratchet Bomb / EE were going to be more popular... but I guess not.

[maharis]

Maybe I go one step to far, but this looks like an "Or" rather than an "And" in terms of Thing & Terminus given its a better natural draw, clear the field at instant speed AND comes with a clock

yep, opens up the range of potential CounterTop decks a little more

Countertop HexDepths with this as a backup Hexmage plan seems like something that could emerge. Saves you from having to go all in on the Depths plan and this triggers off of cards that synergize with that plan like Living Wish, Crop Rotation, Sylvan Scrying, Loam, etc.

I hate Counterbalance as a card but I would play that deck. If you can't beat em...

[The Nobodys]

How about a U/B deck with 4 Dark Depths, 4 Thing in the Ice, 4 Vampire Hexmage and some of cantrips/rituals/discard?

Edit: Beat me to it

[Lemnear]

Worth mentioning that if you replace Terminus with ThingInTheIce your draws and cmc-curve for Counterbalance significantly improves. For Delver variants its simply the question if Goyf/Tombstalker/etc even remain an option given the lower color commitment ThingInTheIce has.

[GundamGuy]

Worth mentioning that if you replace Terminus with ThingInTheIce your draws and cmc-curve for Counterbalance significantly improves. For Delver variants its simply the question if Goyf/Tombstalker/etc even remain an option given the lower color commitment ThingInTheIce has.

TITI'es has one major draw back that Goyf and Tombstalker don't... (not that Tombstalker has been seen play in years...)


REB/Pyroblast.

[Richard Cheese]

TITI'es has one major draw back that Goyf and Tombstalker don't... (not that Tombstalker has been seen play in years...)


REB/Pyroblast.

Or in the 2nd place list from BoM Madrid a week ago...

http://tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=19740&iddeck=150306

[GundamGuy]

Or in the 2nd place list from BoM Madrid a week ago...

http://tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=19740&iddeck=150306

Of course the one event where it Tombstalker was relevant again would just happen to be last week.... wouldn't it.

[Richard Cheese]

Of course the one event where it Tombstalker was relevant again would just happen to be last week.... wouldn't it.

To be fair, I only knew about that because I was trying to see how many Green cards TA was still running these days.

[Octopusman]

Thing in the Ice is awesome. Caverns on horror here I come!

But seriously, am I the only one who at least wishes they could come up with more inspiring card names? Thing in the Ice, Shard of Broken Glass, it's just terrible. The creativity team gets an F- for this.

I very well could be in the minority, but I love exactly this kind of stuff.

[iamajellydonut]

I very well could be in the minority, but I love exactly this kind of stuff.

Agreed, but I think it can pretty old pretty quickly (ie: Shard of Broken Glass and Thing in the Ice and Brain in a Jar in the same fucking set). It feels a lot like when you're watching an episode of a long running TV show and the the show's cast incongruously break character for the duration because "so and so" with his cool and creative wit wrote the episode instead of the regular writing team.

If this was going to become the new norm, then fine, but I get the feeling that they're going to print a bunch of pseudo test card names and we'll all look back years later and say "remember that time they did that dumb shit back in Shadows of Innistrad for no apparent reason?"

[PirateKing]

Also worth discussing... Wizards changed the rules on double-face cards. The change actually worth discussing is that the CMC of the card is the printed cost on the front, regardless of which face is up. :rolleyes:

When did this happen?

[maharis]

TITI'es has one major draw back that Goyf and Tombstalker don't... (not that Tombstalker has been seen play in years...)


REB/Pyroblast.

Right, but it dodges those decks' Lightning Bolts, which potentially makes for awkward boarding decisions.

After all our discussion, I think the way to look at this card is... don't overestimate it or expect a huge shakeup day 1, but don't sleep on it either. There are enough commonly played synergies with it that it's certainly worth a look. SFM and its "flip side" Batterskull also die to STP and Decay and stuff and that hasn't stopped them.

[Lemnear]

Right, but it dodges those decks' Lightning Bolts, which potentially makes for awkward boarding decisions.

After all our discussion, I think the way to look at this card is... don't overestimate it or expect a huge shakeup day 1, but don't sleep on it either. There are enough commonly played synergies with it that it's certainly worth a look. SFM and its "flip side" Batterskull also die to STP and Decay and stuff and that hasn't stopped them.

Point is that TITI is immune to yardhate and on-color which are the MAYOR points to look at. We should not draw parallels to SFM as the Kor is creating cardadvantage unlike TITI

[TsumiBand]

It's kind of hard to draw a real parallel between TITI and existing cards. Like... there are a bunch of Red dudes that get temporarily bigger when you cast a spell, and there's Prowess, but it isn't really one of those since it can't be incremental in its growth. It's kind of like a Grow creature, like a Quirion Dryad I guess, but it still isn't doing incremental growing so you can never limp along with a half-big-enough TITI like you might with a Dryad.

For my part, I just thought it was *funny* to think about some asshole resolving this guy, and then casting 3 Bolt variants cards and a Fireblast FTW. That probably isn't a deck! Or if it is, it is embarrassingly all-in, like Kiln Fiend Sligh or other similar bad decks. I don't think it becomes a fifth copy of Terminus though, it operates so differently from actual Terminus and if you cast a Terminus you'll relieve yourself of your Kraken Horror, so it would be a clunky fit.

[thefringthing]

When did this happen?Today.

[GundamGuy]

When did this happen?

It's one of the upcoming rule changes with SOI.

Edit: As noted by other posters these upcoming changes were announced today.

[apple713]

Right, but it dodges those decks' Lightning Bolts, which potentially makes for awkward boarding decisions.

After all our discussion, I think the way to look at this card is... don't overestimate it or expect a huge shakeup day 1, but don't sleep on it either. There are enough commonly played synergies with it that it's certainly worth a look. SFM and its "flip side" Batterskull also die to STP and Decay and stuff and that hasn't stopped them.

TITI doesn't seem good at all, It's particularly slow in a meta that isn't. It doesn't even have evasion. Lets say Turn 3 at best with 4 cantrips / discard and a DRS start. Thats not bad in a perfect world. Turn 4 is more realistic but then you have to worry about liliana, abrupt decay, swords, can't block flyers and probably not a goyf or batter skull.

Whats the best case scenario with this card? Heavy control and then this just upheavals the board and you reck? So lets say you transform it on turn 4, it gets chumped by everything. You need to hit 3 times with it. Seems underwhelming... IDK.

Maybe just mono blue aggro now with delver and this and TNN.

[Cire]

Maybe just mono blue aggro now with delver and this and TNN.

You say this possibility like it won't change anything. For example, right now I am playing Eldrazi - a blue deck running TNN, back to basics in the board and this might be terrifying to me. This loses counters when spells are cast so COTV doesn't prevent it flipping, and when it flips my board is gone. I doubt, in all honesty, that this will replace Goyf or make any of the cantrip cartel decks mono-blue, but I think this card is legitimate, especially since its not just a threat - it's a board reset too. As such I think it has a home if Eldrazi stay a significant portion of the meta IMO.

[iamajellydonut]

upheavals the board and you reck? So lets say you transform it on turn 4, it gets chumped by everything. You need to hit 3 times with it. Seems underwhelming... IDK.

None of what you said seems underwhelming. I don't mind waiting a turn to Evacuate and pound, and if they feel like tossing cards underfoot, then whatever. Much of your gripe seems rather unfair. What card has a better clock and how is chumping a Tarmogoyf any different?

[Noctalor]

You probably want to play red just because is the second best color thanks to Pyroblast.

[TsumiBand]

If you're going to compare it to Tarmogoyf so insistently - just note that it actually requires less card type diversity and (depending on your view) less cards on your part to *actively* grow it.

Also it doesn't get wrecked by graveyard hate, if that matters a damn.

Standard rant about the card having Awesome and therefore not exactly being tough to protect, even as a 0/4 it is not like you're trying to stick a Welder or something. If they double-Bolt it to remove it are you really sad about that tempo play?

[Chatto]

It maybe a bit slow, but reset the board and stick a threat is a big thing IMHO.

[Kagehisa]

TITI doesn't need evasion the turn it transforms. Cast the fourth spell, Evacuation, swing and deal 7.

[phonics]

7/8 is really big, and it costs 2 mana, and it evacuates. This would easily have had +2cc if it was in any other color.

[GundamGuy]

If they double-Bolt it to remove it are you really sad about that tempo play?

I would be pretty sad for my opponent. It's a pretty sad play.

Wizards sure did decide to push Ludevic's Test Subject this time around huh.

[iamajellydonut]

If everything so far sticks, I'll be up $400.

climbclimbclimbclimbclimb

[MaximumC]

If everything so far sticks, I'll be up $400.

climbclimbclimbclimbclimb

Oh, so you're one of those bastards buying out the supply on pre-orders to pump'n'dump, eh? Screw you and your enlightened self-interest. ;)

[iamajellydonut]

Oh, so you're one of those bastards buying out the supply on pre-orders to pump'n'dump, eh? Screw you and your enlightened self-interest. ;)

:V

I'm a poor blue-collar kid so I haven't been heavy into pre-orders ever and any time I've ever tried to make a little dosh I've come too late or backed the wrong horse(s) and ended up coming out even, so I'm pretty pumped to be actually ahead for once.

[iamajellydonut]

You guys know that "eldritch" is just a word, right? Like, that it doesn't necessarily have anything to do with Eldrazi?

I've unraveled the fukken clue. It's Eldrazi.

http://i.imgur.com/5Xiox5J.jpg?1

[Kagehisa]

Thing in the Ice and Temporal Mastery are sooooo cute together ! :D

[iamajellydonut]

Thing in the Ice and Temporal Mastery are sooooo cute together ! :D

I get that casting Temporal Mastery removes a counter, but isn't that basically saying that a convoluted and/or expensive Time Walk is great when you have a creature card on the battlefield?

[Megadeus]

I get that casting Temporal Mastery removes a counter, but isn't that basically saying that a convoluted and/or expensive Time Walk is great when you have a creature card on the battlefield?

I believe he's referring to them both being over hyped as to be the next big thing

[bruizar]

I've unraveled the fukken clue. It's Eldrazi.

http://i.imgur.com/5Xiox5J.jpg?1

its marit lage battling emrakul, snooze....

[bruizar]

Modern control with Clockspinning and Ancestral Visions and TiTI could be a thing if they decide to unban visions , who knows?

T2: TITI
T3: Spinning
T4: Snap, Spinning, flip TITI, bounce snap, attack with 7/8

Lategame spinnings could go for buyback. Once you get double TITI somewhere in the late game, its over (TITI ain't legendary so they bounce eachother). Think Capsize.

[apple713]

Modern control with Clockspinning and Ancestral Visions and TiTI could be a thing if they decide to unban visions , who knows?

T2: TITI
T3: Spinning
T4: Snap, Spinning, flip TITI, bounce snap, attack with 7/8

Lategame spinnings could go for buyback. Once you get double TITI somewhere in the late game, its over (TITI ain't legendary so they bounce eachother). Think Capsize.

they don't bounce each other. They are horrors and only bounce non horror creatures.
Clockspinning is terrible its a dead card outside of that weak interaction.

After consideration i could see it working in legacy. My only concern now is that its a REALLY bad late game draw when you need something off the top. I see it working with something similar to a rug shell but mono blue. Gitaxian probe, daze, brainstorm, ponder, spell pierce, stifle, force of will. It could definitely be swinging T3 with sufficient protection. you'd Also run delver but I'm blanking on a 3rd creature to make 12x creatures. 2x TNN / vendilion but then the other 2 have to be lower on the curve i think. Any ideas / thoughts?

[supremePINEAPPLE]

Cool little thing someone noticed on reddit http://media.wizards.com/2016/images/daily/eksIEJe2hF_list.png

The last card on this checklist card is colorless and not an artifact (the artifacts have a pattern on the other checklist). Here's hoping for more broken combos for Lands!

[Wynk]

you'd Also run delver but I'm blanking on a 3rd creature to make 12x creatures. 2x TNN / vendilion but then the other 2 have to be lower on the curve i think. Any ideas / thoughts?

Snapcaster looks good to both flip TITI and to be a body for its bounce ability.

[apple713]

Snapcaster looks good to both flip TITI and to be a body for its bounce ability.

thought about him but he not much of a threat himself and he is likely to flashback a cantrip which is kinda weak.

[theintangiblefatman]

TITI seems perfect in the role Goyf used to play in Next Level Blue variants, where you were splashing green entirely for Goyf to be a wall early and a clock late once you have control of the game. Those sort of mid-range countertop decks don't really exist anymore, however. Still, it has several things in common with Goyf: it is a wildly undercosted body, it doesn't require a deck built around it, as it flips by simply doing the things you want to be doing anyway, and it is splashable in the blue shell to the point of not requiring a second color. Even if it does not slot perfectly into a current shell (and I happen to think it slots very well into something like Grixis Delver in place of the delve creatures), it is a strong enough card that it could spawn a new archetype. All in all, TITI looks like an obvious non-rotating format plant, and I would be shocked if it does not become at least a solid role player like True-Name.

[jrsthethird]

In OGW, we get the D mana, and now they give us some nice big TITI's to play with. WOTC definitely catering to their male-heavy playerbase.


Sure thats a bad combo, but maybe is good enought for modern, and is just 100% pure swag

FWIW TITI will block 1/2 of the Hunted Horror tokens while waiting to transform. So busted.


Thing in the Ice is awesome. Caverns on horror here I come!

But seriously, am I the only one who at least wishes they could come up with more inspiring card names? Thing in the Ice, Shard of Broken Glass, it's just terrible. The creativity team gets an F- for this.

Gotta play into the tropes, man. Real-world flavor sets are going to have these names. They did it a little in Theros with Chained to the Rocks too.


Cool little thing someone noticed on reddit http://media.wizards.com/2016/images/daily/eksIEJe2hF_list.png

The last card on this checklist card is colorless and not an artifact (the artifacts have a pattern on the other checklist). Here's hoping for more broken combos for Lands!

DFC Emrakul?

[Echelon]

DFC Emrakul?

Yup, the normal side will be a 1 mana hexproof 1/4 that flips whenever you cast a blue spell. If the flipped side isn't named Fliprakul it just sucks.

Oh, wait...

[force_of_phil]

TITI seems perfect in the role Goyf used to play in Next Level Blue variants, where you were splashing green entirely for Goyf to be a wall early and a clock late once you have control of the game. Those sort of mid-range countertop decks don't really exist anymore, however. Still, it has several things in common with Goyf: it is a wildly undercosted body, it doesn't require a deck built around it, as it flips by simply doing the things you want to be doing anyway, and it is splashable in the blue shell to the point of not requiring a second color. Even if it does not slot perfectly into a current shell (and I happen to think it slots very well into something like Grixis Delver in place of the delve creatures), it is a strong enough card that it could spawn a new archetype. All in all, TITI looks like an obvious non-rotating format plant, and I would be shocked if it does not become at least a solid role player like True-Name.

I think the biggest draw to the card is that it's a 2 turn clock in a deck with bolts. UR delver seems like the obvious place to try it, being a deck that wants the speed and is happy to throw burn spells to flip it. The downside to the card is that it's a terrible topdeck compared to goyf and delve dudes, but so is YP, so we'll see. Also, blue once again gets the best creatures... sigh.

[bruizar]

I giess they are solving reserved list issues with TITI. No need for duallands anymore :-)

[Poron]

thought about him but he not much of a threat himself and he is likely to flashback a cantrip which is kinda weak.

In a world of Flusterstorm, Rebs, Spell Snare, Surgical Extraction, Sword to Plowshares, Brainstorm, Thoughtseize, Predict and Counterspell Snapcaster is supposed to likely flashback a cantrip which is weak?

SnapMage for Predict nets you 2 new cards milling a bad one and putting you closer to Evacuation with this

Chang is going to 200$ in next meta and Miracle is going to 4 Predict and 3 Flusterstorm

[Echelon]

On a somewhat non-related note - when casting spells to thaw the Thing in the Ice one should be forced to hum/sing the first few lines of The Icicle Melts from the Cranberries.

[bruizar]

14 euros and climbing. I missed this one due for logistic reasons. Well', let's hope it disappoints because I'm not paying 60 euros for a non-foil playset.

[Echelon]

14 euros and climbing. I missed this one due for logistic reasons. Well', let's hope it disappoints because I'm not paying 60 euros for a non-foil playset.

When, when will the pricicle melt,
The pricicle, pricicle?

[bruizar]

I'd rather buy Avacyn over Thing in the Ice for that price if speculation is what matters... Perhaps not an eternal staple, but Avacyn is going to dominate standard for a long time.

[iamajellydonut]

I'd rather buy Avacyn over Thing in the Ice for that price if speculation is what matters... Perhaps not an eternal staple, but Avacyn is going to dominate standard for a long time.

mhm. I wish I was able to pick up more of her when she was first spoiled, but I'm happy with what I got.

[Finn]

I have retyped this a few times because I am dumbstruck for words about titty. In fact I have lapsed into making the titty jittee deck in my mind. I must still be an adolescent.

Anyway, it is a hilarious card when you have a Flickerwisp and Vial on the table.

[iamajellydonut]

In fact I have lapsed into making the titty jittee deck in my mind.

Shit's contagious. And also probably the best archetype since Quick 'n' Toast.

[Cire]

titty jittee deck

4 TITI
4 SFM
2 TNN

4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Daze
4 Force of Will
4 STP
1 Jitte
1 Batterskull

20 Lands

Good enough?

[Chatto]

When, when will the pricicle melt,
The pricicle, pricicle?

I laught too hard about this :laugh::laugh:


4 TITI
4 SFM
2 TNN

4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Daze
4 Force of Will
4 STP
1 Jitte
1 Batterskull

20 Lands

Good enough?

Let's say it's a start, albeit a good one

[HdH_Cthulhu]

I dont get the argument that TITI gets jump blocked. You evacuated the board = no blockers left!?
Next turn he might drop a jumpblocker but then his board is empty again. If he filps how can you ever loose the race?

Also yes it dies to removal... Thats the worst argument ever evaluating a 2 drop...

[Finn]

My figuring is that titty is a control card, period. It is a blocker while it waits to erupt. Delver and tnn probably don't ever go with it. Jace certainly does. Snapcaster, probably. Sfm, possibly. But you can't have a lot of critters at any rate.

I went through a thought experiment with pyro and figured red did not do enough. Mentor might do better. The question is what spells does the color add. Not much for either. Does black offer more?

[Cire]

My figuring is that titty is a control card, period. It is a blocker while it waits to erupt. Delver and tnn probably don't ever go with it. Jace certainly does. Snapcaster, probably. Sfm, possibly. But you can't have a lot of critters at any rate.

I went through a thought experiment with pyro and figured red did not do enough. Mentor might do better. The question is what spells does the color add. Not much for either. Does black offer more?

Just from my post in the U/R delver thread - I think TITI is faster than people are giving it credit for.

I'm only looking at expected value, assuming you 1) delver will be flipped asap and 2) you cast 2 spells a turn if you have at least 1 mana open after casting any of the creatures.




Delver
TITI
Stormchaser
Monastery


Total Damage by turn 1
0
0
0
1


Total Damage by turn 2
3
0
1
4


Total Damage by turn 3
6
0
4
7


Total Damage by turn 4
9
7 (plus evacuation)
7
10


Total Damage by turn 5
12
14
10
13

[Barook]

In fact I have lapsed into making the titty jittee deck in my mind.
A deck based around this card should clearly be called TITI Twister.

[Star|Scream]

So rules-wise, if you were to stifle the fourth and final trigger, the card would not flip, but it would also keep the last counter on it. So the owner of TITI would then be able to cast another instant or sorcery to successfully flip it, correct?

[phonics]

I dont get the argument that TITI gets jump blocked. You evacuated the board = no blockers left!?
Next turn he might drop a jumpblocker but then his board is empty again. If he filps how can you ever loose the race?

Also yes it dies to removal... Thats the worst argument ever evaluating a 2 drop...

I think that the shell that the deck would be built under would mean you will have the counter magic to stall them long enough after the evacuation to smash face.

[maharis]

I dont get the argument that TITI gets jump blocked. You evacuated the board = no blockers left!?
Next turn he might drop a jumpblocker but then his board is empty again. If he filps how can you ever loose the race?

Also yes it dies to removal... Thats the worst argument ever evaluating a 2 drop...

Pretty much this...

I do think whether or not it's ever considered "good" is contingent on how many people decide to work on a deck with it. Unfortunately the paucity of Legacy events and the ceiling on potential players limit how much brewing can really be done. Someone on MTGO will have to get the ball rolling, most likely.

[MaximumC]

Pretty much this...

I do think whether or not it's ever considered "good" is contingent on how many people decide to work on a deck with it. Unfortunately the paucity of Legacy events and the ceiling on potential players limit how much brewing can really be done. Someone on MTGO will have to get the ball rolling, most likely.

It's not a bad argument, people just forget what it stands for. "Dies to removal" means that a creature can enter the battlefield and then be removed by an opponent's card, leaving them up on you for the trade. So, if you spent 6 mana to cast, I dunno, Baron Sengir, and then they spend 1 to make it go plow fields instead of sucking blood, then you're down on the trade. The Titans were the poster child of creatures that did NOT die to removal because at least you got a bolt, two lands, or whatever out of the equation.

TITI does die to removal, in the sense that they can burn a 1 mana spell to destroy it before it does anything. But, at worst, you're trading 1U for your opponents' removal spell, and that's not a bad trade. It's par for the course if you were going to counter it, for example.

What sells this card for me (and why I jumped on the preorder train) is thinking about TITI from the opponents perspective. Let's say your Delver opponent puts a TITI on the table on turn 2. What is your number 1 priority in life at that point? Like breast cancer, you need to get rid of that TITI fast before it kills you. And it's even worse if it drops on turn 3 or later while your opponent has cards in hand. Any attempt you make to remove it might actually facilitate it's flipping by triggering countermagic and cantrips from the opponent in response. At the point it flips, it likely does NOT "die to removal" because it evacuated.

Good card is good.

[Barook]

Like breast cancer, you need to get rid of that TITI fast before it kills you.
Quote of the day

We got from discussing Eldritch abominations to breast cancer. This thread is going places.

[Lord_Mcdonalds]

TITI is good, if the meta ever shifts back to more BG/x decks packing decays and hymns, it may be pretty mediocre but right now I could see a deck built around it doing some work.

Good sideboard card for miracles against chalice of the void decks definitely.

[TsumiBand]

Quote of the day

We got from discussing Eldritch abominations to breast cancer. This thread is going places.

On International Women's Day, of all things! I mean, given the choice between breast cancer jokes and pegging, I know how I sit. (comfortably, actually)

[tescrin]

I dont get the argument that TITI gets jump blocked. You evacuated the board = no blockers left!?
Next turn he might drop a jumpblocker but then his board is empty again. If he filps how can you ever loose the race?

Also yes it dies to removal... Thats the worst argument ever evaluating a 2 drop...

Except you're missing why it's so bad. If you remove it after the opponent has invested improper resources to it, made a worse line of play to get counters on it, or similar, it's far worse than Goyf, Angler, Pyro, or similar. The reason is that it didn't do anything AND it made you play a subpar game by trying to get it online. Further, most of the Delver decks are running removal-resistant creatures (Angler and Pyro being exceptional at this.) There are other practical problems, like plow giving you 0-health; being actively bad against Jace, or similar.

When you do plays like "Ponder that I don't need to use, Trigger" and your opponent kills it after the 2nd or 3rd such mediocre play, you're wasting resources. A Goyf would've been allowed to swing or give you information that you need another threat. This guy will sit there while you cantrip-into-cantrip just to get it removed and be stuck with whatever the final one in the chain found. Pyro would've left dudes behind who are still blocking, swinging, or similar.

When you spend two turns getting something to happen and your opponent doesn't even spend their turn, you're in a bad spot. He can't swing against combo without spending resources which may be critical for using Force, brainstorm to hide countermagic, or similar. His advantages against combo don't happen if he swings; assuming you even have that much time.

It's actively bad against:
** Shardless (Loses to Strix especially, gives them free cards. Nice.)
** Miracles (Spend 2-3 turns turning it on and wasting resources just to have it removed. You think it's bad losing a Delver? Wait until you invest 4-6 mana.)
** D&T (Flickerwisp kills it. Neat; all while you waste stuff through Thalia.)
* Sneakshow (nice 3 turn karakas! Tap-Red, win.)
* Reanimator (good luck getting it to fire after you lost the counter war. My ass.)

I'm skeptical about it being good against almost anything; let alone being a good card in general. Maybe in modern. Maybe in standard. But not in legacy. Not where it's a card that wants you to waste Brainstorms and Ponders just to get a super-goyf. Legacy doesn't wait for your card to be good. It has to be good *now.* Not when board states are often dude-vs-empty-board and swinging for lethal anyway. Not when this unflips your delver for you if you daze your opponent's spell, then they remove your guy; leaving you with no board. Not when your opponent's Vial-on-3 lets you reset the board and then they give your a 0/4 for your troubles while swinging for 3; before you get to swing. Not when combo decks will kill you while you're figuring out a way to use his dumb ability instead of swing or you spam good cards after bad so you can finally swing at them.

You think it sucks holding back a Snapcaster until you can get value? *Just wait* until you have to hold back your super-goyf that you have to spend your entire hand on to get to even attack just so you can get that bounce on. Bounce, of course, being one of the absolutely objectively worst effects in legacy.

But hey, wouldn't want to stop the needless circle jerk.

[MaximumC]

Except you're missing why it's so bad. If you remove it after the opponent has invested improper resources to it, made a worse line of play to get counters on it, or similar, it's far worse than Goyf, Angler, Pyro, or similar. The reason is that it didn't do anything AND it made you play a subpar game by trying to get it online.

....

But hey, wouldn't want to stop the needless circle jerk.

No one is jerking over TITIs. We're all acknowledging it's less consistent than Goyf. But, you make a mistake when you think that TITI requires the investment of "improper resources." Why would a blue tempo deck (or even a control deck) need to play any differently to get this online? Look at a standard Delver game and count how long it takes them to cast 4 instants or sorceries. Go ahead, I'll wait.


...see what I mean? TITI doesn't require you to do anything different than you already do. You just play the game normally, and if you have TITIs, you end up ahead.

[bruizar]

My figuring is that titty is a control card, period. It is a blocker while it waits to erupt. Delver and tnn probably don't ever go with it. Jace certainly does. Snapcaster, probably. Sfm, possibly. But you can't have a lot of critters at any rate.

I went through a thought experiment with pyro and figured red did not do enough. Mentor might do better. The question is what spells does the color add. Not much for either. Does black offer more?

I agree with this. This is not a delver/tempo card, its a control card.


Quote of the day

We got from discussing Eldritch abominations to breast cancer. This thread is going places.

WR pinkribbon.dec ? Young Pyromancer + TITI?

[Darkenslight]

No one is jerking over TITIs. We're all acknowledging it's less consistent than Goyf. But, you make a mistake when you think that TITI requires the investment of "improper resources." Why would a blue tempo deck (or even a control deck) need to play any differently to get this online? Look at a standard Delver game and count how long it takes them to cast 4 instants or sorceries. Go ahead, I'll wait.


...see what I mean? TITI doesn't require you to do anything different than you already do. You just play the game normally, and if you have TITIs, you end up ahead.

I'm seriously looking at TITI Tempo as a possible deck.

[tescrin]

No one is jerking over TITIs. We're all acknowledging it's less consistent than Goyf. But, you make a mistake when you think that TITI requires the investment of "improper resources." Why would a blue tempo deck (or even a control deck) need to play any differently to get this online? Look at a standard Delver game and count how long it takes them to cast 4 instants or sorceries. Go ahead, I'll wait.

I get it; that's why Gurmag #1 is a pretty alright card by about Turn 3. The problem is that this isn't stuff in your graveyard, it's sequencing and timing. Gurmag doesn't give a shit when you spend those cards, as long as it's before him, and those include fetches and dead things.

Imagine:
Goyf on their side, TITI on yours with a counter from your Bolt earlier. Your hand is Ponder, brainstorm, Daze, Force, Fetchland

What a fucking wet dream, am I right?! You'll just search up removal and hit theirs with Daze. You tempt them by going Ponder. You find Land, Delver, Force. You shuffle, you draw Daze. That's fine, you can brainstorm fetch the dazes away. You brainstorm, drawing Bolt, Land, TITI #2. Yes. throw the land and a Daze back with Fetch; we're off to the races.

You bolt them. They fall for it and Dismember, they even pay the 4-life; you Force it. Living the fucking dream. "Good luck you damn neckbeard" you think to yourself.

Except; they're not stupid. They had a full turn to bait you out while drawing their removal with their own cantrips and think about what they were doing. They may have even had a couple turns. They decay your dude and your hand is now TITI, Daze, Force while their board is active goyf, about to swing for 4 again.

What do you do? It doesn't matter, it's all bad, because you now have a second 0/4 and you played in a way to make a bad card good. We can replace a couple things, say the bolt was a decay; you're still stuck with actual garbage, probably tapped out against a deck that didn't just blow their load.

EDIT: Notice if you run that scenario with Goyf or Pyro, even Angler, you're in at least equal board state, if not winning. (Bolt their goyf after damage if you have goyf, use your cards to put out several tokens with pyro, etc..)

Also notice that if you tried to remove their goyf with your own Dismember or Decay, he bounces in response, meaning when they decay you now, they actually still have their threat in hand because you countered your own removal via the bounce.

[TsumiBand]

No one is jerking over TITIs.

I'm really trying to read this thread with an objective eye right now... so goddamn many plants. :)

[shocked439]

...
Wait so you play magic, you make choices, take calculated plays and lose. No that never happens. You realize AD is brutal against most creatures in the field right, it doesn't matter if this a goyf, a delver, or gd swiftspear you pumped to emrakul size by dumping your hand and swinging for the win, it's something you need to be aware of. Playing a delver that doesn't blind flip and then pondering when you could be doing other things is a similar line that you would play because flipping the delver is worth the sub optimal timing of the ponder.

Can the arguments against creatures become more eloquent than simply stating it dies to removal. Everything dies to removal, TNN have you met golgari charm, UR delver creatures have you met abrupt decay, Inkmoth Nexus have you met disenchant, snappy snap snaps have you met swords to plowshares, thalia my friend jitte has a few words for you. Dismissing a card because it dies to removal is lazy. If you AD a delver generally you win. It seems like the players dismissing TITI are not the players that would be drawn to this type of deck anyways.

[LMental]

@Tescrin: I think the real advantage of TITI is that it enables you to narrow your vision. You can focus on just landing this one OP threat and protecting it. Yes, you risk getting blown out for your effort, but for every time that happens, there are times it won't. Plus, it's not like you can't run backup plans. If they're all-in on decay so that TITI doesn't stick, you can still play Snapcaster, Clique, Stoneforge, DRS, and even Jace and other relevant threats. The point is, it's a dude that must be dealt with.

Yes, Goyf, YPeezy and such must be dealt with too, but they don't take over the game so totally if not removed. I think TITI is at least worth substantial testing.

[phonics]

Wait so you play magic, you make choices, take calculated plays and lose. No that never happens. You realize AD is brutal against most creatures in the field right, it doesn't matter if this a goyf, a delver, or gd swiftspear you pumped to emrakul size by dumping your hand and swinging for the win, it's something you need to be aware of. Playing a delver that doesn't blind flip and then pondering when you could be doing other things is a similar line that you would play because flipping the delver is worth the sub optimal timing of the ponder.

Can the arguments against creatures become more eloquent than simply stating it dies to removal. Everything dies to removal, TNN have you met golgari charm, UR delver creatures have you met abrupt decay, Inkmoth Nexus have you met disenchant, snappy snap snaps have you met swords to plowshares, thalia my friend jitte has a few words for you. Dismissing a card because it dies to removal is lazy. If you AD a delver generally you win. It seems like the players dismissing TITI are not the players that would be drawn to this type of deck anyways.

But goyf sucks, you dump your hand to make it big then they remove it, gurmag sucks cause you dump your hand so you can cast it and they kill it, pyromancer sucks cause you dump your hand to make tokens and they terminus or sweep them all away, delver sucks cause they flickerwisp it after you waste a cantrip to set it up, snapcaster sucks cause you cast your spells to get full value and they counter it. I could go on for days with hypotheticals of getting blown out so they all must suck and be completely unplayable.

[Finn]

Tescrin, I hear your argument. It is not without its merits, it is just that we just went through a year of delve players chaining spells with one hand while keeping the game state favorable with the other. And that was easy enough that we endured two independent cycles of nonsense until the enabling cards were removed from the meta. The fact that TITTY blocks a significant percentage of the field while you wait is not nothing. Though I suppose it's power being zero instead of 1 makes Gitaxian Probe a required card for any deck it is in. I am pretty sure the power level of this is pretty high in Legacy. It looks like Delver of Secrets for control decks because, ya know, why should only half of blue decks get over the top aggro cards? After all, blue is the color of aggro.

[maharis]

You can't just look at this card and say "well if you took out these 4 cards from this deck and put this in that would be worse." That is true more often than not. The fact is that this card synergizes with already powerful strategies and the payoff is very strong. It also potentially operates at instant speed.

Compare to Terminus... you could very easily say you don't want two of these in your hand at once, it forces you to brainstorm/top more aggressively than you would like, you don't want to pay retail for the effect. But the Miracles deck makes it work.

The fact is that this card passes several tests:
-Accessible manacost
-Synergy with the best consistency engine in the format
-Provides card advantage at payoff
-Wins the game on its own

Whether or not it makes it is a different question, but saying "It's bad vs. Swords to Plowshares!" isn't telling the whole story.

[jrsthethird]

So rules-wise, if you were to stifle the fourth and final trigger, the card would not flip, but it would also keep the last counter on it. So the owner of TITI would then be able to cast another instant or sorcery to successfully flip it, correct?

Yes. Also, it doesn't matter whether or not there are any counters on it before it triggers. It is not a cost nor an optional ability. The ability will do whatever it can as it resolves; if it instructs you to remove a counter and there are no counters, it will continue to resolve, see that there are no ice counters, and transform.

[Megadeus]

This thing seems great against show and reanimator. It just sitting there with counters basically says to your opponent, win next turn with your fatty or I will bounce it at my leisure

[shocked439]

But goyf sucks, you dump your hand to make it big then they remove it, gurmag sucks cause you dump your hand so you can cast it and they kill it, pyromancer sucks cause you dump your hand to make tokens and they terminus or sweep them all away, delver sucks cause they flickerwisp it after you waste a cantrip to set it up, snapcaster sucks cause you cast your spells to get full value and they counter it. I could go on for days with hypotheticals of getting blown out so they all must suck and be completely unplayable.

You forgot the part where you top decked a second angler with the original one the only card in your yard and no hope for casting it in the near future only to pass the turn and have your opponent slam a RiP.

[HdH_Cthulhu]

Also notice that if you tried to remove their goyf with your own Dismember or Decay, he bounces in response, meaning when they decay you now, they actually still have their threat in hand because you countered your own removal via the bounce.

Yah kinda awkward... I think in the right shell you should be able to control the moment when he flips pretty well!
Sure him on 3 counters and ONLY a removal in hand sux but then you got outplayed...
Timing is important here and with a bit of skill you can make it as awkward for your opponent!

[Amon Amarth]

Thing in the Ice is really damn cool. Pretty good with CB, blocks stuff until it transforms and even pseudo-wraths. This card is good.

[Echelon]

My figuring is that titty is a control card, period. It is a blocker while it waits to erupt. Delver and tnn probably don't ever go with it. Jace certainly does. Snapcaster, probably. Sfm, possibly. But you can't have a lot of critters at any rate.

I went through a thought experiment with pyro and figured red did not do enough. Mentor might do better. The question is what spells does the color add. Not much for either. Does black offer more?

Post#1000. You're killing me - the next Delver variant to come along is going to be Titty Control. Or D Cup for short.

@Barook: It should only be called Titty Twister if it's used as a secondary wincon in ANT/TES. G2, your opponent should have boarded out all his Plows/ADs. It even bounces a board full of hatebears!

[Dark Ritual]

Post#1000. You're killing me - the next Delver variant to come along is going to be Titty Control. Or D Cup for short.

@Barook: It should only be called Titty Twister if it's used as a secondary wincon in ANT/TES. G2, your opponent should have boarded out all his Plows/ADs. It even bounces a board full of hatebears!

I'd like it as a manplan in ANT/TES if everyone and their mother didn't have this freakish obsession with REB/pyroblast against storm.

One of the most interesting cases for this in a sort of aggro delver deck is cabal therapy. Turn 1 delver, turn 2 TITI, turn 3 therapy, flashback, probe, cantrip, smash for 7 or something along those lines. Free spells are naturally the best and daze fits best in a tempo shell. This guy is real sweet. Wonder what places he'll go.

[Echelon]

I'd like it as a manplan in ANT/TES if everyone and their mother didn't have this freakish obsession with REB/pyroblast against storm.

One of the most interesting cases for this in a sort of aggro delver deck is cabal therapy. Turn 1 delver, turn 2 TITI, turn 3 therapy, flashback, probe, cantrip, smash for 7 or something along those lines. Free spells are naturally the best and daze fits best in a tempo shell. This guy is real sweet. Wonder what places he'll go.

A RUG/BUG shell where a couple of fetches have been replaced with Land Grants? It finds Trops, Taigas or Bayous without costing any life and is yet another card that flips Delver/thaws your Titties. Might be too tricky though. The normal builds'll probably suffice as is, when it comes to the number of instants/sorceries they run. I think it's good enough not to get the cold shoulder in the end.

[Cire]

Warped Landscape
Land
T: Add C to your mana pool.
2, T, Sacrifice Warped Landscape: Search your library for a basic land card and put it onto the battlefield tapped. Then shuffle your library.
Each cryptolith twists the plane's mana, bending its flow to a singular purpose.

Is this flavortext proof that eldrazi are involved with Innistrad?

[Poron]

well in this (or the next) set we should find Emrakul's whereabouts.

In this plane there is also Marit Lage.. let's hope for the clash

[Poron]

I'd like it as a manplan in ANT/TES if everyone and their mother didn't have this freakish obsession with REB/pyroblast against storm.

One of the most interesting cases for this in a sort of aggro delver deck is cabal therapy. Turn 1 delver, turn 2 TITI, turn 3 therapy, flashback, probe, cantrip, smash for 7 or something along those lines. Free spells are naturally the best and daze fits best in a tempo shell. This guy is real sweet. Wonder what places he'll go.

Grixis Control and Rug Delver with Land Grant

[Cire]

well in this (or the next) set we should find Emrakul's whereabouts.

In this plane there is also Marit Lage.. let's hope for the clash

I thought Marit lage was in Dominaria? Also what if the reveal is that Marit Lage is also an Eldrazi? Outside her card saying "Avatar" wizard's could errata that?

[GundamGuy]

I thought Marit lage was in Dominaria? Also what if the reveal is that Marit Lage is also an Eldrazi? Outside her card saying "Avatar" wizard's could errata that?

Marit Lage shows up in the Ice Age block so yeah Dominaria... which wizards does a great job of pretending doesn't exist.

[Varal]

Apparently Marit Lage can move from plane to plane but isn't a planeswalker.

http://dougbeyermtg.tumblr.com/post/51399504202/so-this-is-something-very-dear-to-my-heart-and

[Svyelunite]

Apparently Marit Lage can move from plane to plane but isn't a planeswalker.

http://dougbeyermtg.tumblr.com/post/51399504202/so-this-is-something-very-dear-to-my-heart-and

Sounds like she's an Eldrazi... Basically the exact description. Giant monster, not PW, can Planeswalk.

[GundamGuy]

Sounds like she's an Eldrazi... Basically the exact description. Giant monster, not PW, can Planeswalk.

That would be a pretty amazing retcon.... I'm not opposed to the idea, just like... does everything have to be Eldrazi now?

[Barook]

That would be a pretty amazing retcon.... I'm not opposed to the idea, just like... does everything have to be Eldrazi now?
It's been speculated for years that Marit Lage might be another Eldrazi. I wouldn't be suprised if it turned out to be true. Just because Wizards fucked up BFZ block and made Eldrazi widely hated doesn't mean they suddenly change their original story direction.

[Ace/Homebrew]

Sounds like she's an Eldrazi... Basically the exact description. Giant monster, not PW, can Planeswalk.
Except she's black. Eldrazi (anything but drones) are colorless.


The Eldrazi are an ancient race native to the Blind Eternities that have neither physical form nor color alignment.

Source (http://mtgsalvation.gamepedia.com/Eldrazi)

[Darkenslight]

Sounds like she's an Eldrazi... Basically the exact description. Giant monster, not PW, can Planeswalk.

Marit Lage as OG Eldrazi, and primogenitor of the Big Three?

...I can see that.

[Cire]

Or an eldrazi-spawn that consumed so much black mana that it gained a color?

[Spam]

It would be so much cooler if it was Yawgmoth's secret weapon for the invasion of Dominaria. Which got sentient after the death of his master, awaiting for his revenge against everything or some stuff like that. But no, it will probably be an Eldrazi. Emrakull's uncle or something like that.



Inviato dal mio LG-D605 utilizzando Tapatalk

[Cire]

It would be so much cooler if it was Yawgmoth's secret weapon for the invasion of Dominaria. Which got sentient after the death of his master, awaiting for his revenge against everything or some stuff like that. But no, it will probably be an Eldrazi. Emrakull's uncle or something like that.


If they want to bring Yawgmoth back into the story discussion they can go the Star War EU route and claim that the entire idea of Phyrexia was just Yawgmoth attempting to create an unified force against the Eldrazi which he somehow learned about, and Marit Lage was an experimental phyrexian Eldrazi weapon - also Nicolas Bolas something or other :tongue: :cool:

[Goaswerfraiejen]

The "fixed" Tarmogoyf (at least, I assume that's what it is) actually seems pretty good (although perhaps it's too slow for Legacy?):

Soul Swallower 2GG

Trample
Delirium: +3/+3

3/3


Quick question, though: does Delirium trigger every upkeep? It looks like it.

[thecrav]

...

Soul Swallower 2GG
...

Quick question, though: does Delirium trigger every upkeep? It looks like it.

http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/avatars/122/404/635929425407345445.png

[Sloshthedark]

If they want to bring Yawgmoth back into the story discussion they can go the Star War EU route and claim that the entire idea of Phyrexia was just Yawgmoth attempting to create an unified force against the Eldrazi which he somehow learned about, and Marit Lage was an experimental phyrexian Eldrazi weapon - also Nicolas Bolas something or other :tongue: :cool:

Or they can take the soap opera route and claim that the entire idea of Phyrexia was Yawgmoth dreaming in a coma after a planes-crash, which was hungover Urza dreaming... waking up in an unfamiliar apartment he finds Marit, his brother fiancee, in the kitchen making spaghetti and meatballs... :really:

[Bobmans]

Or they can take the soap opera route and claim that the entire idea of Phyrexia was Yawgmoth dreaming in a coma after a planes-crash, which was hungover Urza dreaming... waking up in an unfamiliar apartment he finds Marit, his brother fiancee, in the kitchen making spaghetti and meatballs... :really:
Sounds more like a spin-off of R&D ending up with to much alcohol after a teambuilding session.

[Varal]

They could also never talk about Marit Lage again.

[Meekrab]

The "fixed" Tarmogoyf (at least, I assume that's what it is) actually seems pretty good (although perhaps it's too slow for Legacy?):

Soul Swallower 2GG

Trample
Delirium: +3/+3

3/3


Quick question, though: does Delirium trigger every upkeep? It looks like it.
Delirium just means the ability only triggers/resolves if there are four card types (not supertypes, not subtypes, the same ones that count for Tarmogoyf) in your graveyard. This specific ability triggers on each of your upkeeps, yes, but there are Delirium activated abilities and spells with Delirium that do different/extra things if you satisfy the four card types condition.

[Spam]

If they want to bring Yawgmoth back into the story discussion they can go the Star War EU route and claim that the entire idea of Phyrexia was just Yawgmoth attempting to create an unified force against the Eldrazi which he somehow learned about, and Marit Lage was an experimental phyrexian Eldrazi weapon - also Nicolas Bolas something or other :tongue: :cool:
I smell genius!!!

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[MaximumC]

Delirium just means the ability only triggers/resolves if there are four card types (not supertypes, not subtypes, the same ones that count for Tarmogoyf) in your graveyard. This specific ability triggers on each of your upkeeps, yes, but there are Delirium activated abilities and spells with Delirium that do different/extra things if you satisfy the four card types condition.

And, in this particular case, you get a 3/3 that gets bigger by 3 every turn. Fine for casual, fun for EDH, crap for Legacy. Card is poop.

1. "Dies to Removal." Unlike TITI, when Swallower dies, he takes a 2GG investment with him.
2. Dies to "all" removal. Is there a kill spell in Legacy that DOESN"T kill him? Bolt, StP, Dismember, etc. Well, I guess he beats Abrupt Decay. ALRIGHT THEN.

TITIs are good, Swallowers are not. And, this is coming from a guy who really likes his 2BB 6/6 fliers.

[shocked439]

And, in this particular case, you get a 3/3 that gets bigger by 3 every turn. Fine for casual, fun for EDH, crap for Legacy. Card is poop.

1. "Dies to Removal." Unlike TITI, when Swallower dies, he takes a 2GG investment with him.
2. Dies to "all" removal. Is there a kill spell in Legacy that DOESN"T kill him? Bolt, StP, Dismember, etc. Well, I guess he beats Abrupt Decay. ALRIGHT THEN.

TITIs are good, Swallowers are not. And, this is coming from a guy who really likes his 2BB 6/6 fliers.

Wait you gave sensible reasons why the trade off of 4 cmc for a 1 cmc removal is bad and justified it as a reason to evaluate a card as bad. Is this allowed here? I thought it was only nonsensical gibberish parading as well thought arguments.

[MaximumC]

Wait you gave sensible reasons why the trade off of 4 cmc for a 1 cmc removal is bad and justified it as a reason to evaluate a card as bad. Is this allowed here? I thought it was only nonsensical gibberish parading as well thought arguments.

I don't know what you mean. I'm just trying to show that TITIs are worth the investment, but you really don't want to pay for a Swallower.

[jrsthethird]

The "fixed" Tarmogoyf (at least, I assume that's what it is) actually seems pretty good (although perhaps it's too slow for Legacy?):

Soul Swallower 2GG

Trample
Delirium: +3/+3

3/3


Quick question, though: does Delirium trigger every upkeep? It looks like it.

Yes.

Helpful hint: Any italicized word in the text box has no meaning. Delirium is an "ability word", which does nothing on its own. It's only there to remind us that all delirium cards have the same condition for the ability to take effect. So you can practically ignore it and the card still functions the same.

Other examples of ability words: threshold, fateful hour, constellation, spell mastery

[joven]

I don't get why people are associating Marit Lage with Innistrad. It's even more likely that Emrakul will show up. But I don't think that WotC are that stupid and already use up their last known Eldrazi and do Eldrazi again which would be completely overdoing it. And no, I don't think SoI was planned as third set of the BFZ block. I'm pretty sure it was conceived on its own. All the BFZ block stuff was crammed into BFZ and OGW and maybe some kept for later sets when they switched to the 2 set block scheme. That said, I like to mention that I see a distant possibility that WotC might introduce new stuff of the sort like Marit Lage or also simply new Eldrazi titans.
But I think Innistrad has plenty of evil on its own without Eldrazi. A lot of that was released from the Helvault last time. And also there are surely plenty of evil planeswalkers lurking around the multiverse.

I guess that Marit Lage is an black Avatar on her old card can just be seen as a wrong impression of her made by the people of the plane in the past. It's like an assumption: "Whoa, if that thing thaws it's an evil (=black) big thingy (=avatar)!"
I think of "Avatar" as a rather abstract creature type used for significant entities that aren't defined/known in more detail. Well, its mostly used for embodiments of some sort but not exclusively.

That Marit Lage planeswalks while frozen seems unlikely.
(No, I don't know the story details of Ice Age.)

[iamajellydonut]

It's even more likely that Emrakul will show up. But I don't think that WotC are that stupid and already use up their last known Eldrazi and do Eldrazi again which would be completely overdoing it.
I've unraveled the fukken clue. It's Eldrazi.

http://i.imgur.com/5Xiox5J.jpg?1

I'm not saying that this is evidence of an eldrazi, but this is totally evidence of an eldrazi.

[Cire]

I'm not saying that this is evidence of an eldrazi, but this is totally evidence of an eldrazi.

https://i.imgflip.com/10m195.jpg

[MaximumC]

I'm not saying that this is evidence of an eldrazi, but this is totally evidence of an eldrazi.

Let us not prematurely rule out any other options, Watson.

Worms of the Earth

Also, since we're back in steampunk horror land, I'm hoping for a Sherlock Holmes or Professor Moriarty -themed card. Don't dissapoint me, Wizards!

[iamajellydonut]

steampunk

wat?

[MaximumC]

wat?

I totally get a steampunk vibe from the skaag-related and technology-related cards in Innistrad.

Like, for example, Geistcatcher's Rig

[Darkenslight]

I don't get why people are associating Marit Lage with Innistrad. It's even more likely that Emrakul will show up. But I don't think that WotC are that stupid and already use up their last known Eldrazi and do Eldrazi again which would be completely overdoing it. And no, I don't think SoI was planned as third set of the BFZ block. I'm pretty sure it was conceived on its own. All the BFZ block stuff was crammed into BFZ and OGW and maybe some kept for later sets when they switched to the 2 set block scheme. That said, I like to mention that I see a distant possibility that WotC might introduce new stuff of the sort like Marit Lage or also simply new Eldrazi titans.
But I think Innistrad has plenty of evil on its own without Eldrazi. A lot of that was released from the Helvault last time. And also there are surely plenty of evil planeswalkers lurking around the multiverse.

I guess that Marit Lage is an black Avatar on her old card can just be seen as a wrong impression of her made by the people of the plane in the past. It's like an assumption: "Whoa, if that thing thaws it's an evil (=black) big thingy (=avatar)!"
I think of "Avatar" as a rather abstract creature type used for significant entities that aren't defined/known in more detail. Well, its mostly used for embodiments of some sort but not exclusively.

That Marit Lage planeswalks while frozen seems unlikely.
(No, I don't know the story details of Ice Age.)

My primary theory is that Marit Lage is a sentient primogenitor of the Titanic Eldrazi. This explains why there's all sorts of weird things going on within the Ice Age on Dominaria, and is a prt of the complex things going on in Hanweir and other places. The speculation I can see is that Nahiri is messing around with Avacyn to force Sorin to 'take action', using her knowledge of the Zendikar hedrons to Cause Shit To Go Down.

[bruizar]

I totally get a steampunk vibe from the skaag-related and technology-related cards in Innistrad.

Like, for example, Geistcatcher's Rig
Not really steampunk.
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/68/70/8d/68708d1367422c6a799f78c82901bdb9.jpg

[MaximumC]

Are we required to end each of our posts with wagons, now?
http://www.history.org/foundation/journal/Spring09/images/wagon.jpg

[jrsthethird]

Not really steampunk.
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/68/70/8d/68708d1367422c6a799f78c82901bdb9.jpg

Toothcatcher's Rig?

[Ace/Homebrew]

Not really steampunk.
Innistrad is gothic horror themed. If you want steampunk, WotC needs to bring us to Chandra's home plane.


These worlds are not exactly new, as players have seen them, but also not exactly old, as we've never focused on them. These are the ones I get asked about the most:

•Kaladesh—Chandra's homeworld premiered in Magic Origins and was an instant hit. Many players are eager to see Magic's take on a steampunk plane.
Source (http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/making-magic/tell-me-what-you-want-2016-03-07)

[Bobmans]

The "fixed" Tarmogoyf (at least, I assume that's what it is) actually seems pretty good (although perhaps it's too slow for Legacy?):

Soul Swallower 2GG


No, the Goyf fixer is called Thing in the Ice and they even made it blue for the convenience.

(And yes, Goyf is still better)

[shaggai]

I wonder if they're making a cycle of "The Thing in the..."

I can clearly see a black version (The Thing in the Dark) triggering on the death of creatures to flip and a green version flipping on either lands or specifically forests (e.g., the Thing in the Woods). Other colors, I have no idea...

[TsumiBand]

Steampunk encapsulates a wider range of concepts than people tend to think of. The original Wild Wild West is a precursor to the over-machinated stuff you tend to see on, like, woobee cosplay Instagrams. It is recognized more easily by an overabundance of gears, goggles, and corsets, but this is like saying science fiction is confined solely to movies with spaceships.

There are definitely 'elements' of steampunk in certain of Innistrad's art, but it isn't quite as "thopter-y" as Chandra's world, no.

[HdH_Cthulhu]

There is this certain guild U= steam R= punk?

[Echelon]

I wonder if they're making a cycle of "The Thing in the..."

I can clearly see a black version (The Thing in the Dark) triggering on the death of creatures to flip and a green version flipping on either lands or specifically forests (e.g., the Thing in the Woods). Other colors, I have no idea...

That would be awesome! I'd laugh my ass off when the black version would be called the Thing In The Swamp. Especially if it'd be playable.

Red could be when damage is dealt to a player/an opponent.

White could have some damage preventing ability and loses a counter whenever it prevents damage that way?

[Barook]

Thing in the Mountains would also work - triggered on damage, flip it for more damage to opponent's side.

I have a hard time imagining a white horror hiding in the plain sight of a Plains, though.

[Echelon]

Thing in the Mountains would also work - triggered on damage, flip it for more damage to opponent's side.

I have a hard time imagining a white horror hiding in the plain sight of a Plains, though.

He who walks behind the rows? Or some creepy scarecrow that comes to life..? A Plains that used to be an old Indian burial ground? An angel that hides in the sun like a fighter pilot, ready to swoop down? Call it the Thing In The Sun/Sky! Tits on TITS! And preferably with an ability that works great with The Rack.

A cloud that turns out to be something else, mayhaps..?

A lone, cloaked soldier/cleric/pilgrim wandering the plains wouldn't be out of place either. At first it might look non-threatening. Then it turns out to be Sephiroth. Or it flips into Gideon X. Since he's the one planeswalker that likes to play soldier himself.

[Stan]

The white one could be 'the thing in the basement' or something, which periodically startles people and distracts them. Every time you 'distract' a permanent of your opponent by tapping it, a counter would be removed. Plays well with Rishadan Port in D&T.

[Echelon]

The white one could be 'the thing in the basement' or something, which periodically startles people and distracts them. Every time you 'distract' a permanent of your opponent by tapping it, a counter would be removed. Plays well with Rishadan Port in D&T.

The thing in the barn! A barn full of walkers that bursts open at some point!

Or something akin to the Trojan Horse.

If we ever get a TITx-centric deck, it should be called Funbags. I can't wait for the first tournament report that says something along the lines of "I sandbagged the pair of TITs I was holding until I could go in and twist them sideways for the win".

Also... Pitching TITIs to FoW will become a thing.

Can't wait to call my opponent a TITI-pitcher.

TITI-pitcher!

[Stan]

Thing in the stable. You'd have epic GP finals between a TITI and a TITS deck then.

[Echelon]

Thing in the stable

Yeah, not following up on that one. Would be moving into some possibly too obscene territory there.

[bruizar]

Yeah, not following up on that one. Would be moving into some possibly too obscene territory there.

So, Thing in the shower is also out then?

[Echelon]

So, Thing in the shower is also out then?

I don't know what you tend to run into in the shower but for me it's just the occasional p... cat. Every single morning.

[Stan]

A mutated angel called Thing in the Sky perhaps?

Anyhow, I doubt they'll do a full circle of those things. Two of them is enough.

[Echelon]

Two of them is enough.

Nice one. Very subtle.

[Parcher]

Xzibit joins the R&D team just to create The Thing in The Thing.

EDIT; I did consider "The Thing in Your Thing". More contextually relevant. Sounded like a vague allusion to a venereal disease.

[shocked439]

Thing in the stable. You'd have epic GP finals between a TITI and a TITS deck then.

thing in the savannah

hint it's not a lion this time.

[Darkenslight]

Today's spoilers are up: a 2B 2/1 flyer with mill two on ETB or death; and a 2W 2/2 Soul Sister variant that costs 2, tap and sacs another permanent to turn into a fat 2/4 black Blood Artist variant.

[iamajellydonut]

Today's spoilers are up: a 2B 2/1 flyer with mill two on ETB or death; and a 2W 2/2 Soul Sister variant that costs 2, tap and sacs another permanent to turn into a fat 2/4 black Blood Artist variant.

Don't forget about those sick etb tap lands.

Edit: "Forsaken Sanctuary". Literally just Godless Shrine strapped to a thesaurus.

[GenghisTom]

Don't forget about those sick etb tap lands.

Edit: "Forsaken Sanctuary". Literally just Godless Shrine strapped to a thesaurus.

Yea, pretty fascinating when you have nearly 15k different cards, sometimes cards with similar effects can have similar names.

[Barook]

Given the simplicity of certain card names this set, I'm suprised we haven't seen a "Eaten by Monsters" removal spell yet.

[jrsthethird]

Don't forget about those sick etb tap lands.

Edit: "Forsaken Sanctuary". Literally just Godless Shrine strapped to a thesaurus.

At least they didn't go with Moldy Mausoleum or Fornication Lake.

[(nameless one)]

At least they didn't go with Moldy Mausoleum or Fornication Lake.

I would collect Fornication Lake by the binder

[maharis]

Given the simplicity of certain card names this set, I'm suprised we haven't seen a "Eaten by Monsters" removal spell yet.

Eaten by Spiders

[joven]

No, the Goyf fixer is called Thing in the Ice and they even made it blue for the convenience.

(And yes, Goyf is still better)

Thing in the Ice is a improved version of Ludevic's Test Subject. Don't forget that!


Steampunk encapsulates a wider range of concepts than people tend to think of. The original Wild Wild West is a precursor to the over-machinated stuff you tend to see on, like, woobee cosplay Instagrams. It is recognized more easily by an overabundance of gears, goggles, and corsets, but this is like saying science fiction is confined solely to movies with spaceships.

There are definitely 'elements' of steampunk in certain of Innistrad's art, but it isn't quite as "thopter-y" as Chandra's world, no.

Sure, but those are very few. I counted 5-7 at max.


[...]
White could have some damage preventing ability and loses a counter whenever it prevents damage that way?

Woolly Razorback

[Begle1]

Today's spoilers are up: a 2B 2/1 flyer with mill two on ETB or death; and a 2W 2/2 Soul Sister variant that costs 2, tap and sacs another permanent to turn into a fat 2/4 black Blood Artist variant.

Where is the 2B 2/1 mill flier?

I don't see him on MTGS or MythicSpoiler...

[Barook]

Where is the 2B 2/1 mill flier?

I don't see him on MTGS or MythicSpoiler...
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/cards/shadows-over-innistrad/26682-crow-of-dark-tidings

[tescrin]

http://www.mtgsalvation.com/cards/shadows-over-innistrad/26682-crow-of-dark-tidings

I'd note that this is a reimplementation of Haunt (without the complexity and without a keyword.)
You could argue it's not; but this is basically what it was trying to do, but then they attached a really strange mechanic that required several extra triggers and memory to make it work.

Still, I'm pretty sure the last time they did ETB + Dies abilities that were the same on the same dude, it was during haunt. It also flavorfully matches that they'd attempt the simple reimplementation here.

[Echelon]

I'd note that this is a reimplementation of Haunt (without the complexity and without a keyword.)
You could argue it's not; but this is basically what it was trying to do, but then they attached a really strange mechanic that required several extra triggers and memory to make it work.

Still, I'm pretty sure the last time they did ETB + Dies abilities that were the same on the same dude, it was during haunt. It also flavorfully matches that they'd attempt the simple reimplementation here.

I'd love to see some more creatures with some nice ETB & Dies abilities. It might give us a new value grinding tool.

I am wondering what we'd be paying for such a set of abilites though. Just slapping the "Dies"-ability on Reclamation Sage/Eternal Witness probably is a little bit overpowered, even if the creatures' P/T is reduced to 0/1 and the manacost'd be turned into BGG instead of 2G/1GG.

[H]

http://i.imgur.com/0zhmK0q.png

Certainly interesting.

Found here (http://magic.tcgplayer.com/db/article.asp?ID=13162&writer=Melissa%20DeTora&articledate=3-14-2016).

Is it better than Vindicate? I'm not so sure. But it does have some upsides comparatively.

[Ace/Homebrew]

Is it better than Vindicate? I'm not so sure.
I like the flavor behind it. Avacyn is indestructible, so of course it has to exile. And I guess some crap about it causing Sorin pain to do it, so lose 3 life.

[QBChaz]

I'd love to see some more creatures with some nice ETB & Dies abilities. It might give us a new value grinding tool.

I am wondering what we'd be paying for such a set of abilites though. Just slapping the "Dies"-ability on Reclamation Sage/Eternal Witness probably is a little bit overpowered, even if the creatures' P/T is reduced to 0/1 and the manacost'd be turned into BGG instead of 2G/1GG.

Greenwarden of Murasa anyone? They do make these cards, they just tack it onto the CMC.

[iamajellydonut]

Got my finger on the preorder trigger...

[Gheizen64]

Seems pretty good. I think instant and exile is more relevant than 3 life and hitting lands. Exile mean no recurring Vs huge monsters and instant can hit them before they hit you saving more than three life. Against lands this is better than vindicate because lands can recur anyway and this kill end step marit lage. Against D&T this is again better because it can be used in upkeep in response to port. Even Vs burn it's questionable as removing big swiftspear on block step can be worth more than 3 life. Vs eldrazi it can kill tks in response to trigger etc...

I think the biggest problem of this card in legacy is that wb decks often want to tap out so the instant speed become much less relevant. I'd try a couple in esper deathblade though

[Finn]

http://i.imgur.com/0zhmK0q.png

Certainly interesting.

Found here (http://magic.tcgplayer.com/db/article.asp?ID=13162&writer=Melissa%20DeTora&articledate=3-14-2016).

Is it better than Vindicate? I'm not so sure. But it does have some upsides comparatively.
I like this card a whole lot. Vindicate is crazy good, but sees little play because getting a 3 mana sorcery countered or somehow outmaneuvered is devastating. But this kinda only goes in esper.

[PirateKing]

Anguished Unmaking

Surprised they didn't make this Mythic. This could have been the Lotus Cobra of SOI.

[AngryTroll]

There are a lot of really great removal spells at the 2 and 3 cmc slot that currently see no play that I want to try. Terminate, Maelstrom Pulse, Putrefy, Mortify, Vindicate, Krosan Grip, Council's Judgment, and Sultai Charm each seem almost good enough to grab a few maindeck slots, but aside from a singleton Pulse or Judgement or a pair of Grips in the sideboard I don't think I've seen any of these cards in a while. It's tough to compete with Swords to Plowshares, Lightning Bolt, and Abrupt Decay in maindecks.

Anguished Unmaking might just manage to clear the power level hurdle-if a singleton Pulse sees some play in Shardless and Jund, this will probably see a splash of play somewhere. Of course, it competes with Council's Judgment in the colors that could cast it, and I've had to exile a few Thrun, the Last Trolls to that particular spell.

[iamajellydonut]

For the record, for anyone saying "it's just another variant" and/or "WB can't make use of instants", being an instant is fucking huge.

[MaximumC]

http://i.imgur.com/0zhmK0q.png

Certainly interesting.

Found here (http://magic.tcgplayer.com/db/article.asp?ID=13162&writer=Melissa%20DeTora&articledate=3-14-2016).

Is it better than Vindicate? I'm not so sure. But it does have some upsides comparatively.

No. Inability to hit lands means this is basically a situationally better Maelstrom Pulse. Which is fine and all, but I'm sure not excited about it.


For the record, for anyone saying "it's just another variant" and/or "WB can't make use of instants", being an instant is fucking huge.

Yeah, it's a fine card for a control deck, but I just can't get excited about it in a format where most of the cards control wants to kill can get exiled for W at instant speed anyway.

[Dice_Box]

Instant and Exile is sweet, but I think I like the targetability of Lands with Vindicate.

[Ace/Homebrew]

Not a legacy card, but it's one most people will be anxious to see:

Nahiri, the Harbinger :2::r::w:
Planeswalker - Nahiri
+2: You may discard a card. If you do, draw a card.
-2: Exile target enchantment, tapped artifact, or tapped creature.
-8: Search your library for an artifact or creature card, put it onto the battlefield, then shuffle your library. It gains haste. Return it to your hand at the beginning of the next end step.

http://s3.gatheringmagic.com/uploads/2016/03/14/JY_1.png

[maharis]

Obligatory "Tutorable by Sunforger!"

I expect this card to pop up here and there in the 75s of certain decks depending on what the pilot expects to face in the meta, but probably only as a one- or two-of. Can't play a ton of these unless you have a really good lifegain plan. Maybe Siege Rhino Nic Fit decks could make some use of this.

Seems like this is a design space they're interested in exploring for Standard as they raise the cost of the strongest removal spells. They just made Utter End, and you're basically getting a phyrexian mana instead of a generic on that card. Wonder where that will take us.

[maharis]

Not a legacy card, but it's one most people will be anxious to see:

Nahiri, the Harbinger :2::r::w:
Planeswalker - Nahiri
+2: You may discard a card. If you do, draw a card.
-2: Exile target enchantment, tapped artifact, or tapped creature.
-8: Search your library for an artifact or creature card, put it onto the battlefield, then shuffle your library. It gains haste. Return it to your hand at the beginning of the next end step.

http://s3.gatheringmagic.com/uploads/2016/03/14/JY_1.png

Whattttttt

RW Prison Blightsteel? You can discard it to the +2 if it's in your hand and then find it FTW with the -8.

[iamajellydonut]

It looks like she's on stage at a pop concert or something with the lighting and what appear to be pyrotechnics in the background.

[Gheizen64]

Not a legacy card, but it's one most people will be anxious to see:

Nahiri, the Harbinger 2:r::w:
Planeswalker - Nahiri
+2: You may discard a card. If you do, draw a card.
-2: Exile target enchantment, tapped artifact, or tapped creature.
-8: Search your library for an artifact or creature card, put it onto the battlefield, then shuffle your library. It gains haste. Return it to your hand at the beginning of the next end step.

Is this better than Ajani Vengeant? It's really similar. It start with 4 Loyalty which is really good as a +2 put you at 6. Tapped creature removal i'm not sure how relevant is it, but it seems decent and versatile, and the ult win the game , which is 3 turns from when you drop it.

I think it's fringe playable and a really interesting design. I think the fact that an artifact has to be tapped basically make the artifact exile ability way too unreliable as most played artifacts in this format don't tap or when they tap they bounce and tap at instant speed at your EOT most of the time.

Personally i really like it. It seems like a more controllish Daretti which can ulti extremely fast. I think the fact that she's essentially a 3 turn clock and card filter on top of it will really make obnoxious in standard/modern formats.

Compared to Ajani
- higher starting loyalty, ramp loyalty much faster (3 turns ult compared to 5 turns ult)
- better on stalled/empty boards being able to sift your library for bombs/answers
- better vs enchantments

cons:
- worse vs more aggressive decks
- can't keep lands tapped down, acting as a pseudo-port
- dunno

[Zombie]

So, we have an ancient guardian created by an ancient godlike creature who starts hearing whispers and goes mad, wanting to purify the world so her kind can rule because the others just can't see.

I think they misspelled Deathwing and/or Neltharion somewhere along the way.

[Gheizen64]

Whattttttt

RW Prison Blightsteel? You can discard it to the +2 if it's in your hand and then find it FTW with the -8.

No need to blightsteel, just emmy it.

[maharis]

She works really well with Liliana of the Veil, as Lili is great at locking out your opponent and leaves her free to dig.

The third time you untap with her, you win the game. Simple as that. Question is whether that deck exists. The presence of Reality Smasher puts a bit of a damper on this card but I wouldn't sleep on it. Though I probably will when SCG starts it at $39.99.

[iamajellydonut]

So, we have an ancient guardian created by an ancient godlike creature who starts hearing whispers and goes mad, wanting to purify the world so her kind can rule because the others just can't see.

I think they misspelled Deathwing and/or Neltharion somewhere along the way.

"After I have slain all of you, I shall take your eggs!"

[Dice_Box]

Because R/W is always just someone White with anger management issues. Fuck. You know there is so much to explore there, a walker who is Loyal and seeks to do what is right, regardless of the rules. Sometimes working inside and outside them. A walker who is a willing to do what is needed to make good things happen but not always the right thing? You know, someone who is not mr goody two shoes or miss's Pissed off today.

This is Lazy and I hate it. R/W is the best Colour combination in my mind for a story driven Walker and there is never any story other than "Fuck this shit, burn shit to the ground because I want to."

[Zombie]

Because R/W is always just someone White with anger management issues. Fuck. You know there is so much to explore there, a walker who is Loyal and seeks to do what is right, regardless of the rules. Sometimes working inside and outside them. A walker who is a willing to do what is needed to make good things happen but not always the right thing? You know, someone who is not mr goody two shoes or miss's Pissed off today.

I always liked the Boros as the least fuckshit representation of RW R&D's come up with. It's simple, but at least it works. Like, wow angry White guy RW to Boros is what Simic is to Vedalken Heretic and Lorescale Coatl. Main color doing second color things vs. an actual hybrid perspective.


This is Lazy and I hate it. R/W is the best Colour combination in my mind for a story driven Walker and there is never any story other than "Fuck this shit, burn shit to the ground because I want to."

Well, what else do you do with fire? Tell me? You can only burn stuff! Three points at a time.

[Finn]

Spur New Growth

Burn each creature and each player for 3. For each creature that dies, you get a 1/1 peck. For each player who dies, you get a 10/10.

I spent two minutes and I came up with something flavorful and appropriate.

[Dice_Box]

Well, what else do you do with fire? Tell me? You can only burn stuff! Three points at a time.
What do you do with an emotionally driven, good at heart individual willing to break any rule, do anything that is needed to save those they swear to defend? What do you do with someone who is not just one dimensional, who seeks to do what is right, to help out the greater good and the masses, who will act selflessly when needed but who is always willing to step outside the ideals of what is right and what is wrong to do it? What if you have someone who will do what they think is best, even if that best does mean someone dies? What if they will do more than just be Red because Anger? What if someone really takes that anger, holds in deep inside themselves and uses it as their fuel and their compass as they do all they can serve those whom they love, respect and hold in great esteem? Now that's a complex and interesting ideal, not just "Woke up on the wrong side of the bed today."

(Also yes, I know you are teasing.)

[bruizar]

unfortunately, nahiri is crap. Fun but crap.

Price evolution of Nahiri:


____
\
\
\
\____


+2: 4 mana for a bad cantrip without defense
-2: Decent, but you can't really use it on creatures for profit given that most creatures will be able to attack into Nahiri (no defense). A one for one for 2WR, yeah that's not really a good deal.
-8: takes more than 3 turns if you can't defend your planeswalker. Forget about Emrakul, he can't attack because you have an Ensnaring Bridge out. Oh yeah you can -2 the bridge, but then it will take even longer.... Ulamog 1.0 could be used to blow up your own bridge and annihalator for 4. Ok, so maybe Ensnaring Bridge is out. No Boros stax / boros control then... That means you can play blue. If you're playing UWr, might as well just take miracles and run Jace....

[MaximumC]

unfortunately, nahiri is crap. Fun but crap.

Price evolution of Nahiri:


____
\
\
\
\____


That MIGHT be true.... but there actually is a shell into which Nahiri fits very well in Modern. Shape Anew has been bubbling below the surface as playable since Origins gave us Thopter moms left and right, and this set was already primed to jack that archetype into high gear with a 1-drop Clue token generator. Nahiri works just fine in that deck as a four drop, competing with the Nalaar parents and Thopter Spy Network, but probably better than either. She can sit back behind tokens and either dig up your Shape Anew or just tutor the Blightsteel all by her lonesome if she doesn't find it in three turns.

When you have a decent plansewalker WITH A HOME, you have a card that can sustain 10 - 20 bux.

[Delvis]

Is this better than Ajani Vengeant? It's really similar. It start with 4 Loyalty which is really good as a +2 put you at 6. Tapped creature removal i'm not sure how relevant is it, but it seems decent and versatile, and the ult win the game , which is 3 turns from when you drop it.

I think it's fringe playable and a really interesting design. I think the fact that an artifact has to be tapped basically make the artifact exile ability way too unreliable as most played artifacts in this format don't tap or when they tap they bounce and tap at instant speed at your EOT most of the time.

Personally i really like it. It seems like a more controllish Daretti which can ulti extremely fast. I think the fact that she's essentially a 3 turn clock and card filter on top of it will really make obnoxious in standard/modern formats.

Compared to Ajani
- higher starting loyalty, ramp loyalty much faster (3 turns ult compared to 5 turns ult)
- better on stalled/empty boards being able to sift your library for bombs/answers
- better vs enchantments

cons:
- worse vs more aggressive decks
- can't keep lands tapped down, acting as a pseudo-port
- dunno

I'm not sure what you're seeing, but that -2 ability is extraordinarily strong. It's versatile, can hit aggressive decks' biggest creature as well as a control or midrange deck's primary/only threat. It also just packs in the ability to perform a Disenchant effect, which is not typically worth a maindeck slot. Sure, there's plenty of artifacts this won't hit, although in Modern and Legacy you could sort of set them up with a Blind Obedience or a Tangle Wire, in theory. But it's almost a freeroll, because hitting a tapped creature is pretty good. And it exiles! That's awesome!

On top of that, you can just do the -2 twice and cash it in, or alternate between the -2 and the +2 all game long. This is significant because it means you will get to use her -2 more frequently over the course of the game than you could use Ajani's. And, if you drop her and +2, you can alternate between 4 and 6 loyalty and never expose her to Lightning Bolt.

I think Ajani was solidly "okay." This planeswalker is definitely in the range of "good." Personally, I believe it's amazing.

[iamajellydonut]

I think Ajani was solidly "okay."

Except that he was solidly tier 1 throughout his entire Standard career.

[Delvis]

Except that he was solidly tier 1 throughout his entire Standard career.

I don't really take Standard into account when evaluating cards.

Edit: I'll expound a bit. Ajani was clearly quite strong in Standard, but once he rotated out, he disappeared. I think Nahiri will see plenty of Standard play, but I don't really care about that because there are a great many cards that see significant Standard play and disappear once they rotate - planeswalkers especially. Her ability to perform the pseudo-Disenchant effect is less useful in Standard where you don't have Ensnaring Bridges or Moats or Counterbalances running around.

I don't mean to dismiss Ajani's Standard playability because it's sort of irrelevant. It was a completely different format from what we're going to see Nahiri in, including weird decks like Swans.

Look at Fiery Temper. The first time it was printed, it was pretty good because you had effective madness enablers so it fit neatly into RG Beats. The last time it was Standard-legal (Time Spiral) it didn't really see any play because there weren't enough effective enablers and there wasn't a great deck for it. Now it'll be a premier burn spell, partly because we've already seen solid enablers, and partly because there really isn't anything better. We don't even have Volcanic Hammer.

If Ajani Vengeant were reprinted in SoI, would it be good? Maybe. But I don't really care about that, because it won't happen. If we're evaluating Ajani versus Nahiri, we should be doing it in the context of the formats they are both legal in.

[bruizar]

Not discussed yet, very flavorful:

http://mythicspoiler.com/soi/cards/startledawake.jpghttp://mythicspoiler.com/soi/cards/persistentnightmare.jpg

This card is a draft winner I think. Cast it twice and you win.

[maharis]

That MIGHT be true.... but there actually is a shell into which Nahiri fits very well in Modern. Shape Anew has been bubbling below the surface as playable since Origins gave us Thopter moms left and right, and this set was already primed to jack that archetype into high gear with a 1-drop Clue token generator. Nahiri works just fine in that deck as a four drop, competing with the Nalaar parents and Thopter Spy Network, but probably better than either. She can sit back behind tokens and either dig up your Shape Anew or just tutor the Blightsteel all by her lonesome if she doesn't find it in three turns.

When you have a decent plansewalker WITH A HOME, you have a card that can sustain 10 - 20 bux.

Yeah, I thought about this as well. Definitely a possibility after the Eldrazi are banned.

Big Red decks are a place to start in Legacy, since they have lock pieces, big creatures, Sneak Attack, and a problem dealing with resolved permanents.

Obviously all PWs are best on an empty board. The need to protect her is about the same as the need to protect Jace. Both walkers' self-defense put them at 2 loyalty. Both left unchecked win the game, both have card selection engines.

Card definitely has promise, question is whether the power level of the deck that plays it can compete.

[bruizar]

Got my finger on the preorder trigger...

Careful before you buy
https://www.magiccardmarket.eu/img/fde53079cb4ef89f82e2fe592570f8c6/cards/Game_Day_Promos/anguished_unmaking.jpg

Game day promo..

[Ace/Homebrew]

Oh yeah you can -2 the bridge, but then it will take even longer....
No... you can't.

[Megadeus]

I like it in like a Daretti Stax build with welders and stuff. And you get to have a sundering titan or two essentially turning her Ultimate into Ajani's except it triggers on the third turn you have her out

[Esper3k]

Anyone else find it hilariously ironic that Nahiri, the super Stoneforge Mystic, has major problems dealing with Batterskull?

[Barook]

Anyone else find it hilariously ironic that Nahiri, the super Stoneforge Mystic, has major problems dealing with Batterskull?
She gets flavor points for summoning Emrakul by descending deeper into madness (aka her +2).

[bruizar]

No... you can't.

:/ indeed.. Well, what can I say. Nahiri 1.0 is so much better....

[Cire]

She gets flavor points for summoning Emrakul by descending deeper into madness (aka her +2).

That's actually really cool

[Finn]

Careful before you buy
https://www.magiccardmarket.eu/img/fde53079cb4ef89f82e2fe592570f8c6/cards/Game_Day_Promos/anguished_unmaking.jpg

Game day promo..

Holy cannoli. Thanks for posting this. I had been viewing this thread on my phone and I was seeing "...gain 3 life." I'm not even sure I like this card at all any more.

[joven]

Greenwarden of Murasa anyone? They do make these cards, they just tack it onto the CMC.

Ashen Rider



http://s3.gatheringmagic.com/uploads/2016/03/14/JY_1.png

I don't get that flavor. She doesn't look pissed. Why is there fire in the background, she is not a pyromancer? And the abilities don't reflect that she is a lithomancer.

The +2 Loot is good, I guess, although it is the weaker "red" form of looting.
The -2 has odd restrictions to tapped creatures and tapped artifacts? Tapped creatures can make sense, like Gideon 1.0, but why only tapped artifacts?
The ultimate is strong if you have a game-ending fatty in your library, especially Emrakul. (Maybe she is really trying to lure Emrakul to Innistrad? Maybe that's the reason why she and Emrakul vanished from Zendikar. She is also called "the Harbinger"! But I'd really hate to see Eldrazis already again.)

[iamajellydonut]

Holy cannoli. Thanks for posting this. I had been viewing this thread on my phone and I was seeing "...gain 3 life." I'm not even sure I like this card at all any more.

Wait, wait, wait. You thought it gained you life and all you had to say about it was "this kinda only goes in esper"?

[Vicar in a tutu]

Holy cannoli. Thanks for posting this. I had been viewing this thread on my phone and I was seeing "...gain 3 life." I'm not even sure I like this card at all any more.
Jesus, that effect for that cost at instant speed, with an added Healing Salve slapped on as well? That would have been a very strong card.

[HdH_Cthulhu]

I dont like Nahiri! (in every format)
Do you really want to run an Emrakrul just for the ulti? Then you prolly have to run 2-3 Nahiri...
She doesn't do much on an even board, another PW might just win it.
Awkward to protect herself or easy to play around. Aggro/Burn might just ignore it.

Also a lot of weird restrictions why discard first why tapped artefact?


Well she doesn't seem bad if you can -2 their only thread and the cantrip for the rest of the game!

[Cire]

Neglected Heirloom 1
Artifact - Equipment
Equipped creature gets +1/+1.
When equipped creature transforms, transform Neglected Heirloom.
Equip 1
//
Artifact - Equipment
Equipped creature gets +3/+3 and has first strike.
Equip 3

That's pretty cool - not legacy worthy, but still pretty cool.

But combine it with Delver :cool:

[MaximumC]

I dont like Nahiri! (in every format)
Do you really want to run an Emrakrul just for the ulti? Then you prolly have to run 2-3 Nahiri...
She doesn't do much on an even board, another PW might just win it.
Awkward to protect herself or easy to play around. Aggro/Burn might just ignore it.

Also a lot of weird restrictions why discard first why tapped artefact?


Well she doesn't seem bad if you can -2 their only thread and the cantrip for the rest of the game!

No, no, not Emrakul. Blightsteel. She slips right into Shape Anew combo.

[Gheizen64]

Holy cannoli. Thanks for posting this. I had been viewing this thread on my phone and I was seeing "...gain 3 life." I'm not even sure I like this card at all any more.

Dude WHAT? An instant speed vindicate gaining three life was "sorta going only in esper" ? Lol. Even not hitting land, that card would be absurd. Not that i'd complain, since it would push a non blue color pair in legacy.

[Delvis]

Neglected Heirloom 1
Artifact - Equipment
Equipped creature gets +1/+1.
When equipped creature transforms, transform Neglected Heirloom.
Equip 1
//
Artifact - Equipment
Equipped creature gets +3/+3 and has first strike.
Equip 3

That's pretty cool - not legacy worthy, but still pretty cool.

But combine it with Delver :cool:

I'm not sure if Delver is enough to justify it. It doesn't really do anything good until it flips, and even then the equip cost escalates to 3 which is tough for Delver to support (edit: I realize it stays attached to the creature that flipped it when it transforms; it's after that creature dies to removal/combat that the equip cost becomes a concern). But maybe it could lead to a new deck construction, perhaps using Reckless Waif or other cheap flippers.

Edit: I just noticed something interesting: even if the creature it's attached to transforms back to its other side, it'll stay in the transformed state. This means the card is actually reasonably strong with Werewolves, which will flip back and forth multiple times throughout a given game, and not all that great with Delver, which flips once and stays that way.

[Ace/Homebrew]

I'm pretty sure Cire's comment was made with tongue-in-cheek.

I keep seeing the "but equipping costs :3:" as what makes this card bad... The equipment stays on the creature and both transform together, right? It only becomes an issue if the creature is dealt with after the transformation.