Shadows over Innistrad

[Dice_Box]

So Shadows is starting early, with some of the cards already leaked online. I am not going to post the card images here (because that seems dumb) but there are some mechanics to look at:

Investigate (Keyword on some spells):
Put a colourless artifact on the table with (2), Sac: Draw a card.

Delirium:
If you have four or more card types in your Graveyard; Kicker.

Madness:
You know what this does.

Flip cards are back, the flip Token has 24 spaces on it.

Most interesting card I saw was Envelop with an Extraction effect (of countered spell) tacked on if you have Delirium.

[sco0ter]

yay, +1 for Madness. One of my favourite mechanics of all time. I hope they print some good enablers.

[swoop]

please don't post card images its dumb

[Barook]

Edit #2: Spoiled cards so far in more readable text form (https://www.reddit.com/r/magicTCG/comments/44frp5/shadow_over_innistrad_spoiler_on_dutch_ebay_like/czpx9wa?context=3)

Invasive Surgery (http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/attachments/150/141/635903331502360589.JPG)

Seems like a major "Fuck you" to any sorcery-based combo. Great sideboard card.

Story-wise, Nahiri is back and she's mad as hell about the whole Eldrazi ruining Zendikar thing, thus she went to Innistrad to get back at Sorin.

Edit: Delirium seems like it has alot of potential. It's basically "Tarmogoyf: The mechanic" and we all know damn well how fast a Goyf can grow to 4/5 even without the help of an opponent.

[Gheizen64]

Invasive Surgery (http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/attachments/150/141/635903331502360589.JPG)

Seems like a major "Fuck you" to any sorcery-based combo. Great sideboard card.

Story-wise, Nahiri is back and she's mad as hell about the whole Eldrazi ruining Zendikar thing, thus she went to Innistrad to get back at Sorin.

Edit: Delirium seems like it has alot of potential. It's basically "Tarmogoyf: The mechanic" and we all know damn well how fast a Goyf can grow to 4/5 even without the help of an opponent.

Yeah, the fact that it exile the countered spell make it good already, but extract effect too? Sick card for anti-combo. Probably printed to give Modern some strong anti-combo permission since FoW ain't there, but i can see this easily being played in legacy too.

Counter and exile all terminuses/entreats vs miracle.
Counter/exile all infernal tutors vs storm.
extract all visions vs BUG all SnT? Pretty good too.

The only thing i don't like is the trigger condition making this basically a card only for tempo decks basically.

I don't understand also the artifact mechanic.

EDIT: ok saw the spoilers.
The other cards are also somewhat interesting:

2GG
Flash
You can discard a land from hand as this ETB, if you do, put a 2/2 wolf in play.
4/3

I like this a lot, flash 6 power on the board for 2GG. Probably not legacy playable but i like multiple body creatures in general, plus land discarding can be a plus in some decks.


Expose Evil 1W
Instant
Tap up to two target creatures
Investigate (put an artifact token OTB with 2, sac: draw a card).

This is basically post-cycling for spells. This card isn't good, but the mechanic could be cute for some decks, especially Red-based ones with artifact swap effects, affinity, plus things that care about sacrifices.

Dance with the Devils 3R
Instant
Put two 1/1 devils OTB with "when this die, deal 1 damage to any target"

This is a cute combat trick + value. Can killblock a 4/4, or multiple smaller weenies. Limited bomb probably (it's uncommon for a reason i guess).

Watcher of the web 4G
Reach
Can block up to 7 additional creatures
2/5

Pretty fun spider i guess :D

Structural Distortion 3R
Sorcery
Exile target artifact or land, deal 2 to the controller.

A little pushback on land destruction power level? Crumble to dust remain probably still the best non-basic land hoser, but this is interesting as it's essentially pillage that exile and deal 2 for 1 more. Could see even standard play i think.

A flip green creature too. Flip cards are horrible but i like their implication in the gameplay as they fit really well in prison archetypes. Can't wait for the new blue broken flip card! Jokes aside maybe this time we get actually good non-blue flip creatures.

Fiery Temper got reprinted.

[Barook]

I don't understand also the artifact mechanic.
It gives you a delayed cantrip effect in artifact form that costs :2:. Maybe there's synergy with sac permanent effects or cross-block synergy with the next block, assuming it's artifact-based.

As it stands, it's a really weird mechanic.

[Gheizen64]

Builder for 2G, 2/3 or 3/3 and may return a land card from your graveyard to hand upon entering the battlefield.

This is a really interesting card. If we get some good return land cards , and i guess we will since there's a "discard land" theme, mox diamond decks could get much stronger, and again, fetches BOHOO. This is essentially a 3/3 for 2G that return a fetch/wasteland to your hand. It's already borderline playable and it's a common. I know witness exist but this is tomb-mox castable.

[jrsthethird]

Edit #2: Spoiled cards so far in more readable text form (https://www.reddit.com/r/magicTCG/comments/44frp5/shadow_over_innistrad_spoiler_on_dutch_ebay_like/czpx9wa?context=3)

Really cool stuff so far. I love investigate, and delirium is obviously rather easy to achieve. New Envelop is going to hurt combo.


Builder for 2G, 2/3 or 3/3 and may return a land card from your graveyard to hand upon entering the battlefield.

This is a really interesting card. If we get some good return land cards , and i guess we will since there's a "discard land" theme, mox diamond decks could get much stronger, and again, fetches BOHOO. This is essentially a 3/3 for 2G that return a fetch/wasteland to your hand. It's already borderline playable and it's a common. I know witness exist but this is tomb-mox castable.

I think this guy is a 2/3. I don't think it's that playable (unless other stuff comes to support it). We already have Cartographer.

Also, Skulk is a new evasion mechanic:


we think there is a blue creature with casting cost 1U, P/T 2/1, and the text "Skulk (This creature can't be blocked by creatures with greater power.)"

[Gheizen64]

Really cool stuff so far. I love investigate, and delirium is obviously rather easy to achieve. New Envelop is going to hurt combo.



I think this guy is a 2/3. I don't think it's that playable (unless other stuff comes to support it). We already have Cartographer.

Also, Skulk is a new evasion mechanic:

Damn in the original madness block too. I guess it's worse than i thought, i really wanted this to be good. Harvest Wurm that can return anything wotc PLZ

[barcode]

Holy crap are you trying to get us all banned?

[maharis]

New cards look promising.

I think since we've seen 2 new mechanics + Madness that Flashback is not in the set and a snapcaster reprint is not happening.

Liliana of the Veil is an interesting one since it works so well with madness, but they tend to use PWs to advance the story and I think she's old news. I am excited for new madness cards though to play with my Lili set in Modern.

Kind of funny that they essentially made a new threshold that's even more of a pain to keep track of.

One thing I hope we see: A punisher for colorless cards. Nahiri seems pissed and this could be a white ability. And I have serious Eldrazi fatigue.

[Barook]

New cards look promising.

I think since we've seen 2 new mechanics + Madness that Flashback is not in the set and a snapcaster reprint is not happening.

Liliana of the Veil is an interesting one since it works so well with madness, but they tend to use PWs to advance the story and I think she's old news. I am excited for new madness cards though to play with my Lili set in Modern.

Kind of funny that they essentially made a new threshold that's even more of a pain to keep track of.

One thing I hope we see: A punisher for colorless cards. Nahiri seems pissed and this could be a white ability. And I have serious Eldrazi fatigue.
They just wrote an article yesterday that Liliana of the Veil was too powerful for current Standard, despite not dominating the first time.

Her new PW incarnation might as well have a discard ability, like Liliana, Heretical Healer.

[Bobmans]

Edit #2: Spoiled cards so far in more readable text form (https://www.reddit.com/r/magicTCG/comments/44frp5/shadow_over_innistrad_spoiler_on_dutch_ebay_like/czpx9wa?context=3)

Invasive Surgery (http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/attachments/150/141/635903331502360589.JPG)

Seems like a major "Fuck you" to any sorcery-based combo. Great sideboard card.

Story-wise, Nahiri is back and she's mad as hell about the whole Eldrazi ruining Zendikar thing, thus she went to Innistrad to get back at Sorin.

Edit: Delirium seems like it has alot of potential. It's basically "Tarmogoyf: The mechanic" and we all know damn well how fast a Goyf can grow to 4/5 even without the help of an opponent.

Invasive Surgery looks as a solid sideboard card. See ya later Show and Tell....

Dead Weight is also interesting. Replaces Disfigure, can be applied to a little more scenario's and feeds Goyf.

[Dice_Box]

Just saw higher quality pics. Skulk is indeed a thing, there are 24 flip cards confirmed and Delver is not among them. (I don't think there are any flip reprints but I don't remember all the old names.)

[Gheizen64]

Just saw higher quality pics. Skulk is indeed a thing, there are 24 flip cards confirmed and Delver is not among them. (I don't think there are any flip reprints but I don't remember all the old names.)

No there are more i think, because the card is CH1.

Dead weight is a reprint from INN

[Dice_Box]

Dead Weight? Can't see it anywhere.

[Bobmans]

Dead Weight? Can't see it anywhere.
It is on salvation. Dead Weight, costs B, Enchant creature - gets -2/-2

[btm10]

Invasive Surgery looks as a solid sideboard card. See ya later Show and Tell....


That card is borderline maindeckable as a 1-of in some Delver shells, and completely changes Delver's relationship with cards like Terminus postboard. I've Enveloped a Ponder more than once, and taking all of someone's Ponders in the Delver mirror is far from terrible. Loam? Ancestral Vision ? Sign me up.

[Dice_Box]

It is on salvation. Dead Weight, costs B, Enchant creature - gets -2/-2

Ok. But that's not a flip card. I was saying that none of the flips looked to be reprints.

[Bobmans]

Ok. But that's not a flip card. I was saying that none of the flips looked to be reprints.

I never said it was a flip card. I just see some use for that card over Disfigure and feeds Goyf. But only to find that i get pointed towards the fact that it is a reprint...

[tescrin]

I feel like you can almost guarantee the Liliana reprint. She's a perfect madness enabler.

The only reason I'd suspect she may not is because she's already insanely good, giving her +1 essentially +2 CA is brutal. Then again, because of Madness, you can avoid her +1.. so who knows.

Still it seems ripe for her.

[Ace/Homebrew]

Flavor text on Structural Distortion reads

"As Zendikar has bled, so will Innistrad.
As I have ***, so will Sorin."
- Nahiri

[bruizar]

Investigate looks like the first step towards contraptions.

[Lord Seth]

They just wrote an article yesterday that Liliana of the Veil was too powerful for current Standard, despite not dominating the first time.In the article (http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/latest-developments/standard-power-level-2016-02-05), they actually only said it was too powerful for the Magic 2015 Standard. They didn't explicitly state it's too powerful for current Standard. There's an implication, but Wizards of the Coast has a tendency to imply something, then go against it afterwards and claim "we never explicitly said that."

[rufus]

What's the over/under on investigate cards in affinity?

[bruizar]

Flavor text on Structural Distortion reads

"As Zendikar has bled, so will Innistrad.
As I have ***, so will Sorin."
- Nahiri

See you soon Emrakul

[ScottW]

I feel like you can almost guarantee the Liliana reprint. She's a perfect madness enabler.

The only reason I'd suspect she may not is because she's already insanely good, giving her +1 essentially +2 CA is brutal. Then again, because of Madness, you can avoid her +1.. so who knows.

Still it seems ripe for her.

Not that I really care but is there a precedent for reprinting PWs in expansion sets? Wizards always seemed to use the core sets for this. I don't keep careful track so I could easily be mistaken

[ReAnimator]

Builder for 2G, 2/3 or 3/3 and may return a land card from your graveyard to hand upon entering the battlefield.

This is a really interesting card. If we get some good return land cards , and i guess we will since there's a "discard land" theme, mox diamond decks could get much stronger, and again, fetches BOHOO. This is essentially a 3/3 for 2G that return a fetch/wasteland to your hand. It's already borderline playable and it's a common. I know witness exist but this is tomb-mox castable.

lol wut? tilling treefolk

[Gheizen64]

lol wut? tilling treefolk

I feel like i'm discovering a lot of new imba cards today! :eek:

[bruizar]

Whenever I look at land graveyard recursion I look at Orcish Lumberjack. Some day I'll break you Orc.

[joven]

[...]
Liliana of the Veil is an interesting one since it works so well with madness, but they tend to use PWs to advance the story and I think she's old news. I am excited for new madness cards though to play with my Lili set in Modern.


Liliana is still walking around with the Chainveil. So storywise it fits as far as I know. I hope WotC goes for it. Would be bad to miss this opportunity IMO.




Kind of funny that they essentially made a new threshold that's even more of a pain to keep track of.


+1
"Goyfhold" :rolleyes:

Smells like there could be a Tarmogoyf reprint possible in that block .. maybe. Who knows? Would be more than about time! But it would also be said, I thought somebody said Tarmogoyf originates from Muraganda.
Also, Tarmogoyf is said not to be too strong for Standard, but we'll have to see.



In the article (http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/latest-developments/standard-power-level-2016-02-05), they actually only said it was too powerful for the Magic 2015 Standard. They didn't explicitly state it's too powerful for current Standard. There's an implication, but Wizards of the Coast has a tendency to imply something, then go against it afterwards and claim "we never explicitly said that."

+1


--
So far I'm not really impressed by the spoiled cards.
The extract effect on Invasive Surgery seems a bit overpowered for just one mana. But since I don't like combo I don't mind that much. ;)
The Devil tokens with that death trigger seem to be an interesting idea, but probably more for Limited.
Skulk seems interesting.
I don't care much for Madness.

[Gheizen64]

While it's useless for legacy, the 4RR create 5 demons that ping on death at sorcery is seriously some good value for standard formats. I guess we'll get a R instant that make a Devil? That'd be really good with prowess and pyromancer, i'm hoping. I also really like Devils being mechanically red.

[Megadeus]

Fwiw, I think that someone has already announced that Goyf will not be printed in shadows

[Bobmans]

Fwiw, I think that someone has already announced that Goyf will not be printed in shadows
Didn't WotC say they would never want to reprint goyf in a set that hits Standard, hence the printing in Modern Masters?

[Goaswerfraiejen]

They might not print Goyf, but they might have a crack at a fixed version. Delirium's asymmetry is a start, and they'll probably make it UG or RG or something.

[Barook]

I could totally see them printing something like this:

Delirium Goyf :1::g:
Creature - Lhurgoyf
Delirium - Delrium Goyf gets +4/+4.
0/1

Edit: Or something more akin to Sylvan Advocate if they want to push the power level.

[sjmcc13]

Didn't WotC say they would never want to reprint goyf in a set that hits Standard, hence the printing in Modern Masters?
Not certain, but it make sense because re-printing Goyf in a Std set would tank the price majorly, and aggravate allot of players and collectors who paid a premium for their (foil) sets. It would also kill one of the major selling points for future Modern Masters sets.

[Gheizen64]

They stated that they didn't like threshold because it was too swingy... then they print this instead of printing something like Threshold 4 (or a variable number instead of 7 cards to get the bonuses, i think 4 is pretty much what you want , sorta like spell mastery) with moderate bonuses??

The only reason i can think of of why they wanted delirium is that threshold make you want to run 12+ fetches for no good reason but to fuel threshold were delirium want you to play every kind of card in your deck which is more elegant on deckbuilding restriction. The problem is instant-sorcery are two different types which go with land and then you need just 1 more card, which mean this is super good for tempo and so-so in permanent based decks, at least until enchantments remain underpar compared to other things.

[bruizar]

That card is borderline maindeckable as a 1-of in some Delver shells, and completely changes Delver's relationship with cards like Terminus postboard. I've Enveloped a Ponder more than once, and taking all of someone's Ponders in the Delver mirror is far from terrible. Loam? Ancestral Vision ? Sign me up.

And full information of deck + hand.

[apple713]

Whenever I look at land graveyard recursion I look at Orcish Lumberjack. Some day I'll break you Orc.

Was used in panda burst. Pandamonium + saproling burst.

[TsumiBand]

Madness was pretty sweet the first time around, but most instances of it in Time Spiral were shite. Given the relative boost in creatures since Odyssey - Wild Mongrel was once the two-drop to end all two-drops - I wonder what will constitute playable Madness cards.

In particular, I wonder if they'll push the outlets or if they'll be shitty and make sure that there's a mana cost tied to their activation. There's a reason the next best enabler besides Mongrel was Aquamoeba :/

[Dice_Box]

I don't know, but with discard being the main way that you control games in Modern, they could use the space quite well. It would be cool if they printed a card that had to be picked if you used Targeted discard on someone with a cool madness effect. Kind of like hand protection.

[btm10]

Madness was pretty sweet the first time around, but most instances of it in Time Spiral were shite. Given the relative boost in creatures since Odyssey - Wild Mongrel was once the two-drop to end all two-drops - I wonder what will constitute playable Madness cards.

In particular, I wonder if they'll push the outlets or if they'll be shitty and make sure that there's a mana cost tied to their activation. There's a reason the next best enabler besides Mongrel was Aquamoeba :/

In UG, yes, but Tog had Tog as well as (at least when I was building it) Compulsion. Even with Compulsion costing mana it wasn't bad at all with Obsessive Search or Circular Logic.

[Barook]

Madness was pretty sweet the first time around, but most instances of it in Time Spiral were shite. Given the relative boost in creatures since Odyssey - Wild Mongrel was once the two-drop to end all two-drops - I wonder what will constitute playable Madness cards.

In particular, I wonder if they'll push the outlets or if they'll be shitty and make sure that there's a mana cost tied to their activation. There's a reason the next best enabler besides Mongrel was Aquamoeba :/
My money is on a few reprints (as we've already seen with Fiery Temper) on worse, overcosted version of old, popular Madness cards.

Discard with manacosts attached are almost a given with their current design philosophy.

[TsumiBand]

In UG, yes, but Tog had Tog as well as (at least when I was building it) Compulsion. Even with Compulsion costing mana it wasn't bad at all with Obsessive Search or Circular Logic.

Well, Tog :/ lol I mean you're not incorrect but Tog wasn't really a Madness deck, it's like saying decks with Dig Through Time are Delve decks, right -- it's incidental.

Aaaanyway, we understand what I'm saying - if not, I'm more or less interested in seeing what a competitive Standard Madness deck ends up looking like. If they actually push Madness instead of having it be a throwaway thing.

[Cire]

Mindbreaker Demon 2BB
Creature - Demon
Flying, trample
When ~ enters the battlefield, put the top four cards of your library into your graveyard.
Delirium—At the beginning of your upkeep, you lose 4 life unless there are four or more card types among cards in your graveyard.
4/5

Would have been a good addition to Demon Stompy, but lately I would rather play Eldrazi Stompy.

Edit -

Also

Warping Wail and Invasive Surgery make for one wicked FU to any sorcery speed combo deck.

[iamajellydonut]

When do they reveal the contents of the accompanying dual deck?

[Gheizen64]

The second set of SoI is Eldritch Moon. More Eldrazi comign boys!

[square_two]

The second set of SoI is Eldritch Moon. More Eldrazi comign boys!

Eldritch Moon - 2C enchantment that turns all nonbasics into Wastes? :cool:

[joven]

Eldritch Moon is announced to have 205 cards. Uff, small sets are getting bigger and bigger! :/

[iamajellydonut]

The second set of SoI is Eldritch Moon. More Eldrazi comign boys!

Next block confirmed to be named "We've Clearly Learned Nothing".

[Cire]

Next block confirmed to be named "We've Clearly Learned Nothing".

I don't know - I like Eldrazi, and they sell well. The biggest issue with the last block IMO was the awful formatting of having lands that produce 1 in set one and then errata them into C in set 2.

[iamajellydonut]

and they sell well.

They sell well because they consistently break the format in a "play or hate" manner. You literally have to buy the product because everything else gets immediately usurped.

[Cire]

They sell well because they consistently break the format in a "play or hate" manner. You literally have to buy the product because everything else gets immediately usurped.

Eh, I play draft or legacy - so this is less "break it the format" than - we have a fun new stompy deck that may be competitive in the long term.

[iamajellydonut]

Eh, I play draft or legacy - so this is less "break it the format" than - we have a fun new stompy deck that may be competitive in the long term.

"I only pay attention to 35% of the game, so this design is fine on an overall scale."

Also, I'm pretty sure some shit happened with Eldrazi the last time around that resulted in a lot of anguishing cries for a ban of Show and Tell. They will always try to push Eldrazi because they have to. That's the design philosophy of Eldrazi. They're bigger and badder than anything in the universe, and it only serves to accelerate power creep.

[thefringthing]

You guys know that "eldritch" is just a word, right? Like, that it doesn't necessarily have anything to do with Eldrazi?

[iamajellydonut]

You guys know that "eldritch" is just a word, right? Like, that it doesn't necessarily have anything to do with Eldrazi?

Dat "Spooky Moon". I'm sure there is potential for it to be something else, but right now I'm bitter about Eldrazi, so it's a fine excuse to vent.

[Berserking Now]

You guys know that "eldritch" is just a word, right? Like, that it doesn't necessarily have anything to do with Eldrazi?

I am tired of eldrazi so I hope you are right.

[Barook]

As for Eldrazi, Hasbro earnings report today said that BFZ was the best selling set of all time. Looks like quality doesn't matter, considering how shitty the set was - somebody will gobble it up anyway.

Given how OGW turned out, I expect another two high Eternal impact sets since Ken Nagle is not only working on SoI, but also EMN (why not EMO? :eyebrow:). Delirium might be the boogeyman this time when cards are pushed and designed only around Standard.

[CorwinB]

As for Eldrazi, Hasbro earnings report today said that BFZ was the best selling set of all time. Looks like quality doesn't matter, considering how shitty the set was - somebody will gobble it up anyway.

Chalk another win for the Willy Wonka school of marketing !

[Jamaican Zombie Legend]

Aaaanyway, we understand what I'm saying - if not, I'm more or less interested in seeing what a competitive Standard Madness deck ends up looking like. If they actually push Madness instead of having it be a throwaway thing.

Judging by the Madness enablers they've seeded throughout previous sets, I think it's going to have a much more midrange bent than U/G Madness of old. The classic Madness deck was about sticking a low-mana enabler (e.g. a Mongrel or an Aquamoeba) and then cashing in with a bunch of heavily undercosted Madness/Flashback/Incarnation cards — 4/4 Flying, Trample, Flash for 2G was pretty good back in the day. I loved that deck to pieces and still have it sleeved up, but I feel like there's a lot more design space in Madness than simple cost reduction.

What immediately springs to mind are spells that get bigger with Madness (yeah, yeah another Kicker variant) where the original spell is a cheap, somewhat below-the-curve card but when paid for its Madness cost it becomes an over-the-curve mid/lategame choice. For example:


Smug Villager 1G

Creature - Human Asshole Werewolf

Madness 2GG

If you played [CARDNAME] for its Madness cost, transform it as it enters the battlefield.

2/2

//

Self-Righteous Werewolf

Trample

Whenever [CARDNAME] deals combat damage to a player, draw a card.

5/6


Madnessclasm RR

Sorcery

Madness 3RR

Madnessclasm deals 2 damage to each creature. If you paid its Madness cost, it instead deals 5 damage to each creature and the damage cannot be prevented.

Certainly they need some tweaking on power level, but the concept is clear; shift Madness more towards the later stages of the game, which is where they want Standard to be. This seems in line with most of their repeatable enablers being 4CMC and up (Avaricious Dragon, Chandra, Flamecaller, Erebos' Titan)...well, besides Jace, $$$Young$$$Money$$$.

[Cire]

"I only pay attention to 35% of the game, so this design is fine on an overall scale."


I know you're being facetious, but i'm generally curious - what do you consider when evaluating design? Clearly Wizards evaluates design with a heavier focus on limited, draft and standard - so why is it wrong for a person to evaluate design based on the parts of the game in which he/she plays?

[Barook]

Madness into transformation would be really cool, flavor-wise. But I doubt R&D could come up with something cool as that.

I can definitely see them using Madness as kicker variant. They still need to add discard enablers for Limited, though.

[jrsthethird]

Not that I really care but is there a precedent for reprinting PWs in expansion sets? Wizards always seemed to use the core sets for this. I don't keep careful track so I could easily be mistaken

Magic Origins was the last core set, so this precedent is meaningless now.

[Darkenslight]

More apparent new spoilers from SOI (found through /r/magicTCG).

link (https://www.reddit.com/r/magicTCG/comments/44uzyy/soi_more_spoilers_lightning_axe_reprint_among/).

Apart from the flash thing, these are all interesting commons and uncommons.

EDIT: I took down the images and linked to the source over at the subreddit.

[GundamGuy]

I don't know how I feel about actually posting these clearly ill-gotten images in the thread... couldn't we just like link to the source, and discuss the information, without the actual evidence of wrongdoing posted to The Source. I'd rather not be in the crosshairs when WotC goes on it's mole hunt again.

[iamajellydonut]

I don't know how I feel about actually posting these clearly ill-gotten images in the thread... couldn't we just like link to the source, and discuss the information, without the actual evidence of wrongdoing posted to The Source. I'd rather not be in the crosshairs when WotC goes on it's mole hunt again.

For real right now?

[Rocco111]

Those 2 blue Sorceries... O_O
And the lightning axe is quite cute too.
Interesting to see that Prowess is looking like a staple cross-bloc ability.

[GundamGuy]

For real right now?

It is overly cautious, but Wizards got all hot under the collar the last time, which wasn't even a full 12 months ago... got really pissy about it and over reacted... then were talked back from there CoA only for this to happen again... I have a feeling they are going to be even more wrathful this time.


Those 2 blue Sorceries... O_O
And the lightning axe is quite cute too.
Interesting to see that Prowess is looking like a staple cross-bloc ability.

They did say that Prowess is evergreen over a year ago now... (much to my distain)

[iamajellydonut]

I have a feeling they are going to be even more wrathful this time.

And what? Suspend the collective membership of MTGSally, TheSource, Facebook, and imgur?


(much to my distain)

Agreed.

[Dice_Box]

If the image is somewhere else like Reddit with a fuck ton of views and is already up on Salvation spoiler page, there is nothing to be lost or gained by linking it. At that point the cat is out of the bag. However, if you have something and you know your the first point of contact, take it elsewhere. If it's something you found on Reddit, Salvation or Mythic then it's safe enough for you to put it here. At that point it's discussion, not leaking.

[Bobmans]

Leaking, bu hu. .. fuckig scary huh.
If shit leaks, then the fault on themselves... Them going for a witchhunt is bullshit, they watched to much movies....

[GundamGuy]

If the image is somewhere else like Reddit with a fuck ton of views and is already up on Salvation spoiler page, there is nothing to be lost or gained by linking it. At that point the cat is out of the bag. However, if you have something and you know your the first point of contact, take it elsewhere. If it's something you found on Reddit, Salvation or Mythic then it's safe enough for you to put it here. At that point it's discussion, not leaking.

Thanks for the clarification.

As I said to start, I'm likely overly cautious.

The mechanics spoiled so far are pretty good. I'm going to agree with another poster here that I want to see a bit more out of Madness, but Lava Ax that enables madness is a pretty good start. RR 5 Damage to Target Creature and 3 Damage to Target Creature or Player seems like it's living the dream.

Curious about how Skulk will work out. It seems like it's going to be very underwhelming unless it's coupled with another great ability. Imagine a Geist of Saint Traft type card with Skulk... that would be unreal...

Clue Artifact Tokens are weird. I hope we get cards that care about the number of Clue Tokens you have, sort of like Metal Craft..., So you can cash them in for cards, or get some other effect out of them. That would be pretty cool.

Delirium seems powerful, and I'm not sure that the Fixed Threshold is really fixed. Invasive Surgery is totally a Legacy card.

[Richard Cheese]

http://ci.memecdn.com/17/7003017.jpg

Also Pieces of the Puzzle seems pretty awesome for a common.

[Barook]

Thanks for the clarification.

As I said to start, I'm likely overly cautious.

The mechanics spoiled so far are pretty good. I'm going to agree with another poster here that I want to see a bit more out of Madness, but Lava Ax that enables madness is a pretty good start. RR 5 Damage to Target Creature and 3 Damage to Target Creature or Player seems like it's living the dream.

Curious about how Skulk will work out. It seems like it's going to be very underwhelming unless it's coupled with another great ability. Imagine a Geist of Saint Traft type card with Skulk... that would be unreal...

Clue Artifact Tokens are weird. I hope we get cards that care about the number of Clue Tokens you have, sort of like Metal Craft..., So you can cash them in for cards, or get some other effect out of them. That would be pretty cool.

Delirium seems powerful, and I'm not sure that the Fixed Threshold is really fixed. Invasive Surgery is totally a Legacy card.
Lightning Axe is indeed a good Madness enabler. Kinda ironic that they bring it back after Rhino rotates out.

I wouldn't put it past Wizards that there's an alternate wincon based on the number of cluestones you control. At least that would be really flavorful.

[HammerAndSickled]

I was so excited for that "draw 3, untap 2 lands, discard 1" card until I saw it was a sorcery. RiP High Tide.

[rufus]

I was so excited for that "draw 3, untap 2 lands, discard 1" card until I saw it was a sorcery. RiP High Tide.

Sorcery speed high tide is a thing - you get to play other good stuff like Cloud of Faeries and Candelabra of Tawnos. Draw 3 discard 1 for net 1 mana is pretty op.

[Megadeus]

I was so excited for that "draw 3, untap 2 lands, discard 1" card until I saw it was a sorcery. RiP High Tide.

It also costs 5 mana.

[Darkenslight]

Reddit claims to have spoiled a new card:

Delusional ravings :2: :u:
Instant (r)
Brainstorm
Madness :u:

[Barook]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ca63lvbUcAA3A9v.jpg

Why is this a rare? Blatant money-making if it's real. Also interesting time to bring back "Brainstorm" to Standard just after the fetches rotate out.

That said, which deck would realistically run them to complement the original?

Edit: It's fake, since it doesn't have the updated Madness wording like Fiery Temper does.

[Echelon]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ca63lvbUcAA3A9v.jpg
Edit: It's fake, since it doesn't have the updated Madness wording like Fiery Temper does.

It's a shame debate hadn't broken out yet. Would have made the cards' name hilarious.

[Barook]

http://www.mtggoldfish.com/articles/duel-decks-blessed-vs-cursed-decklists

More cards spoiled today.

http://cdn1.mtggoldfish.com/images/gf/Topplegeist%2B%255BDDQ%255D.jpg

This one in particular looks interesting. A shame the upkeep condition is probably out of reach for decks that want to utilize the effect.

[MaximumC]

http://www.mtggoldfish.com/articles/duel-decks-blessed-vs-cursed-decklists

More cards spoiled today.

http://cdn1.mtggoldfish.com/images/gf/Topplegeist%2B%255BDDQ%255D.jpg

This one in particular looks interesting. A shame the upkeep condition is probably out of reach for decks that want to utilize the effect.

I agree, this card is quite good. Not like "goes in every deck" good, but like, "A solid 1/1 with evasion for 1 that has additional upside in the midgame" good. I'm very interested. And I don't agree it's out of reach. Fetchland, instant, sorcery, creature. Baddaboom, you're done. Imagine a true old-school White Weenie deck with this guy. Early game, it's evasive beats. Midgame, suddenly it letting your weenies bust through the larger blocking creature.

[rufus]

...Fetchland, instant, sorcery, creature. Baddaboom, you're done. ....

Fetchland, Brainstorm,Gitaxian Probe,Mishra's Bauble... Delirium is next to free to set up. I wonder it will be on many other cards with low mana costs.

[jrsthethird]

FWIW, almost-strictly-better Ghostway is coming too. You get to target your own creatures, so you can avoid killing your own tokens, but any pro-white or shroud guys have to stay on the field. The former is obviously much more relevant.

[Barook]

A Plummet that can actually hit Emrakul: Click here (http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/avatars/122/210/635920188011163442.jpeg)

[Amon Amarth]

A Plummet that can actually hit Emrakul: Click here (http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/avatars/122/210/635920188011163442.jpeg)

Judging from the flavor text, it looks like the angels/Avacyn/church might not be the good guys this go around? Should be interesting.

[jrsthethird]

A Plummet that can actually hit Emrakul: Click here (http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/avatars/122/210/635920188011163442.jpeg)

Not if they have Grizzy too!

[Darkenslight]

Judging from the flavor text, it looks like the angels/Avacyn/church might not be the good guys this go around? Should be interesting.

Even the artwork on that is horrifying.

I want a full set of foils.

[sjmcc13]

Judging from the flavor text, it looks like the angels/Avacyn/church might not be the good guys this go around? Should be interesting.
Good, they use the white = good, black = evil trope way to much as it is.

When was the last time we had a primarily white main villain (not counting Elesh norn, the Preator's are more a 5 color cycle of villains then a single one)?
Last I can think of is Konda whose greed created the fighting in Kamigawa block

[PirateKing]

Good, they use the white = good, black = evil trope way to much as it is.

When was the last time we had a primarily white main villain (not counting Elesh norn, the Preator's are more a 5 color cycle of villains then a single one)?
Last I can think of is Konda whose greed created the fighting in Kamigawa block

Well Elesh Norn did kill or subdue the other 4, so she's a pretty good candidate.

[tescrin]

Good, they use the white = good, black = evil trope way to much as it is.

When was the last time we had a primarily white main villain (not counting Elesh norn, the Preator's are more a 5 color cycle of villains then a single one)?
Last I can think of is Konda whose greed created the fighting in Kamigawa block

I guess, Orzhov does alright but is a mix. The problem is that most White-Evil follows the "Religious Nuts" trope since it's about in-group/out-group stuff. Honestly though, it's difficult to have Black not be a bad guy when it's generally selfish, exploitative, and all that. All of them do evil fine; but finding "good" is a little more difficult since Red, Black, and Blue don't have utopian values most of the time.

[sjmcc13]

but finding "good" is a little more difficult since Red, Black, and Blue don't have utopian values most of the time. You do not have to be a paragon of perfection to be a hero.
Not having utopian values does not preclude you from being a hero.
Heck, if look at some of the major characters from Magics past there are plenty of Blue and Red heroic characters. Black is the only color that is seriously lacking.

The thing is every color has the potential for heroism and villainy, but they seem to have preferences for each.

[tescrin]

You do not have to be a paragon of perfection to be a hero.
Not having utopian values does not preclude you from being a hero.
Heck, if look at some of the major characters from Magics past there are plenty of Blue and Red heroic characters. Black is the only color that is seriously lacking.

The thing is every color has the potential for heroism and villainy, but they seem to have preferences for each.

I understand; but the point is that that's not a relatable or laudable thing a lot of the time. Again, that Black is Selfish, power-hungry, exploitative, etc.. that's quite difficult to twist into a good thing unless it's accidental. It's Iconic are Demons. The color can basically only accidentally be good because it's motivations *have* to be selfish; and our society views "Good" as altruistic; which anathema to black. Black doesn't require or desire society except as a means to an end; and even then we're approaching black/white.

You can have black on "the right side of history", but I don't think you can get a defensible mono-black character as being actually good. Maybe the closest you could get would be Dexter (from the murder-er show) since he's killing for pleasure, killing "appropriate" targets, and mostly killing appropriate targets because he can get away with it. Even then, he's probably multicolor.

[PirateKing]

and even then we're approaching black/white.

Sorin had to become multicolor before he could be revealed as a good guy all along.

[TsumiBand]

...that Black is Selfish, power-hungry, exploitative, etc.. that's quite difficult to twist into a good thing...

http://static2.hypable.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/talk-like-a-pirate-day-jack-sparrow.jpg

[tescrin]

http://static2.hypable.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/talk-like-a-pirate-day-jack-sparrow.jpg

You're only serving to prove my point. To quote wikipedia (if it were more important, I'd find something better..)


Despite his many heroics, Sparrow is a pirate and a morally ambiguous character.[14] When agreeing to trade 100 souls, including Will, to Davy Jones in exchange for his freedom, Jones asks Sparrow whether he can, "condemn an innocent man—a friend—to a lifetime of servitude in your name while you roam free?" After a hesitation Sparrow merrily replies, "Yep! I'm good with it!"[3] He carelessly runs up debts with Anamaria,[2] Davy Jones, and the other pirate lords.[4] Sao Feng, pirate lord of Singapore, is particularly hateful towards him.[4] In a cowardly moment, Sparrow abandons his crew during the Kraken's attack, but underlying loyalty and morality compel him to return and save them.[59] Sparrow claims to be a man of his word,[2] and expresses surprise that people doubt his truthfulness;[3] there is no murder on his criminal record.[1][2]

Everything about him is morally deplorable. You seem to have conflated "protagonist" with "moral good" due to hero tropes or are arguing "hero" = "protagonist" (both are incorrect.) The only reason Jack Sparrow is an seen as fine is because it's all written in an entertaining manner and the characters he screws are ones we aren't empathic towards.

The exception is the underlined portion, which is *white*.

Were the movies not littered with humor (which is mostly based on our moral assumptions being undermined because he's (https://theadventoftheantihero.wordpress.com/2013/12/02/top-5-anti-heros-in-film/) an (https://susanmcmovies.wordpress.com/2015/02/08/heroes-anti-heroes-and-villains-captain-jack-sparrow-of-potc/) anti (http://hero.wikia.com/wiki/Captain_Jack_Sparrow)-hero (https://prezi.com/4xc40c-yjgq0/antihero-captain-jack-sparrow-from-pirates-of-the-caribbean/); which given the term, makes it entertaining that you'd defend him as a hero) we would condemn him as a traitorous unconscionable person.


Regardless of if you choose "good" or "hero"; you are demonstrably incorrect. Dexter, who I named earlier, is also classed as an anti-hero; even if we root for him in a sort of Stockholm Syndrome kind of way. [I'd say; we most support Dexter out of a Lawful Evil way of looking at it; since he's been trained to kill evil people. It appeals to the generally "lawful" side of us; I'd argue anyway.]

[TsumiBand]

Acts of kinship and loyalty aren't pointers to Gold card status though. Consider Chainer; most of Chainer's service to the Patriarch was quite loyal. He only finally turned on him when he saw that the Patriarch had set up his former trainer to die. Otherwise he was as respectful of the command chain as any Plains mana dood. I don't think going loyalty and respect for your friends kicks you out of the mono Black club, is all.

[sjmcc13]

Acts of kinship and loyalty aren't pointers to Gold card status though. Consider Chainer; most of Chainer's service to the Patriarch was quite loyal. He only finally turned on him when he saw that the Patriarch had set up his former trainer to die. Otherwise he was as respectful of the command chain as any Plains mana dood. I don't think going loyalty and respect for your friends kicks you out of the mono Black club, is all.

The thing is allot of qualities associated with particular colors really have nothing to do with them, and almost never monopolized by that color.
Every color is a spectrum, and encompasses multiple things. black is more then just selfishness, and white does not have a monopoly on loyalty.

While why you are doing something is important, what you are doing is incredibly important in the hero/villain scale. a selfish person can very easily turn to heroism, if they see how it helps them which most of the time.

Though the real problem here is wizards F-ed up the color spectrum like so many other things, and defined characters colors by personality traits instead of the magic they use. Something they probably did for simplicity, but ends up lobotomizing character development and story potential.

[Gheizen64]

A vial for spells has been spoiled. However it cost 2 and 1 to activate. Could be playable i think

[Dice_Box]

"Brain in a Bottle" (2)

Artifact

1, T: Put a charge counter on Brain in a Bottle, you may cast an instant or sorcery spell with converted mana cost equal to the number of charge counters on Brain in a Bottle from your hand without paying its mana costs.

3, T: Remove X charge counters from Brain in a Bottle: Scry X.

I am not sure if it really is playable. You have to put the counter on it to use it, you don't get a choice. Then removing counters likely costs more mana then you saved.

[UseLess]

Every time you activate it, you get another counter though, so unless you pay 3 mana to remove counters, you cannot keep casting 1 or 2 CMC spells. Also, they can still be countered as you cast them, so it doesn't really work like a vial at all. It can give sorceries flash though, but is that worth the trouble?

Edit: Dice was a bit faster it seems.

[bruizar]

Only good use I see is with split cards. I will be passing this one up. I doubt it will live up to the comparison with aether vial and as such shouldn't be worth as much as the hype will make it

[Quasim0ff]

A vial for spells has been spoiled. However it cost 2 and 1 to activate. Could be playable i think

It's a one activation pr CMC, however. You can cast one Ponder, Counterspell etc, until you Scry x, which will give you one activation again.

Not really sure if playable or not. It would obviously be best with spells like Show and Tell, which would benefit greatly from this, but the question is if you don't just want another Boseiju.

*Just re-read it. The cards are cast, which means they actually won't be uncounterable. This is unplayable, I guess then.

[Gheizen64]

Yeah seems just bad. It's an interesting design though.

[Lemnear]

Literally worse than Isochron Scepter

[Quasim0ff]

Literally worse than Isochron Scepter

Not strictly. Sometimes you don't draw the spell you want until later.

Close to strictly though.

[bruizar]

Literally worse than Isochron Scepter

Counting down until the 4 Isochron Scepter 4 Brains X chants decks are made

[Fox]

The wording is interesting allowing sorcery spells to be cast at instant speed. As Quasim0ff points out ponder and SnT seem great; I would add all discard spells [especially hymn] to that list though, as it is effective against miracle triggers at instant speeds (you'd need to be an abrupt decay deck, otherwise hymn is just endless countered by counterbalance). Another guilty pleasure card would be Day's Undoing which also screws up miracle triggers. There are definitely silly things to be done, but boseju generally seems better.

One thing that does need to be noted though is that "you may cast" when you add counters, so you could tick it up to unreasonable CMCs - the problem here is that only safe spell above 5cmc is Obliterate. Alternatively you could slam spells into a counterbalance with nihilistic glee, and finish with an effectively 1 mana Tendrils of Agony.

[Lemnear]

We are aware that Bottle of Brains (unlike Isochron Scepter) is unable to create some cardadvantage and doesn't break even on mana-investment/-savings before you used it three times? Its not that the damn card allow you to cheat on Ancestral Vision either

[GenghisTom]

I don't see any connection to Isochron Scepter
This new card is basically a slightly better mana battery that gives flash to sorceries and srys
Maybe in cube or EDH. Not Legacy ever though

[Bosque]

I do like the design though, interesting concept.

[rufus]

If it's "may cast", then it doesn't do the Vial thing of circumventing counterspells, extra costs, or restrictions either.

Barring split cards, you have to activate it three times to break even mana-wise too.

It seems pretty weak, really.

Edit: I agree that it's a fun design.

[MaximumC]

This card is quite a bit better than you're giving it credit for.

1. Casting Cost - 2
This is significant. If you drop this, you're not dropping Jace, Goyf, Stoneforge, or some other clearly amazing two-drop. It's also likely not coming down on turn 1. In my mind, this is a huge liability. If any single problem will keep this from seeing play, it is the fact that it costs 2 instead of 1.

2. Activation Cost - 1
This is reasonable. Assuming you had 2 mana to cast it, it should be relatively easy to keep piloting your Modern or Legacy deck with 1 open mana at the end of your turn. End step, tap to ramp up Brains, should be pretty common. And, unless Chalice causes a sea change in how Legacy and Modern decks are built, you will ramp this to 1 - 3 and keep it there depending on what kind of spell you want to have on tap.

3. Ability 1 - Scry X
This is really important to make this card work. It allows you to ramp it back down, and without it, you might ramp it to 3 and then situationally want to be able to cast a cheaper spell. The fact that it's scrying reasonably deep makes it another very good end step play if you have no reason to ramp it or only want it set at 1. Very self-synergistic and a great design choice.

4. Ability 2 - Flash out an instant or sorcery with cost X
This is the part that I think you're all underselling. This ability does several things:

A - It fixes your mana. You are converting however many <> into colored mana to permit you cast the spell.

B - IT RAMPS FOR FREE. Let's say you want to cast Brainstorm. Normally, you spend U and get your 'storm on. With this on the battlefield, you pay <>, storm AND YOU NOW HAVE AN ADDITIONAL MANA OF ANY COLOR TO SPEND NEXT TURN. More precisely, you still got the Brainstorm and you still spent U, but now you can spend <> next turn to get two mana of any color for another spell. You've generated mana, and it hasn't slowed you down AT ALL to do it.

C - IT GIVES ALL YOUR SORCERIES FLASH. If you doubt how powerful it is to be able to wait and play spells on your opponent's end step, or in response to countermagic, take a look at Snapcaster Mage and Vendilion Clique. (Hint: it can be REALLY powerful).

CONCLUSION

This card is an astounding swiss army knife that will give your opponent absolute fits if it sticks. Once you pay 2 now, the rest of its uses are effectively free. DIS IS GON BE GUD.

[Finn]

Literally worse than Isochron Scepter
So short-sighted. It's a completely different card. And it is one that breaks timing rules better than any of its predecessors. This card will be popular among casuals at the very minimum and could possibly spawn some decks.

[Lemnear]

http://i415.photobucket.com/albums/pp235/bigupbigup/101_0542_zpsf9da8a87.jpg

/card
/topic

Edit: Seriously, you wanna spend a card and two mana just to cast your Brainstorm for <> rather than for U? By the next turn you invested a total of 4 mana to make your 2cc spell cost <> aka 1 mana less?

[Richard Cheese]

Abrupt Decay

/card
/topic

Edit: Seriously, you wanna spend a card and two mana just to cast your Brainstorm for <> rather than for U? By the next turn you invested a total of 4 mana to make your 2cc spell cost <> aka 1 mana less?

Eh, you could make basically the same argument against Counterbalance though. Conditional Counterspell that requires another card and a bunch of mana to be any good, also dies to Abrupt Decay. This card is pretty interesting. Not so much because it makes things a bit cheaper initially, but because it breaks timing rules and potentially makes things much cheaper, while also digging for things.

There are plenty of answers in Legacy to be sure, but if left unchecked this thing could get out of hand quick, and that's usually a reasonable criteria for at least giving something a closer look.

[shocked439]

http://i415.photobucket.com/albums/pp235/bigupbigup/101_0542_zpsf9da8a87.jpg

/card
/topic

Edit: Seriously, you wanna spend a card and two mana just to cast your Brainstorm for <> rather than for U? By the next turn you invested a total of 4 mana to make your 2cc spell cost <> aka 1 mana less?

It's not what I want to be doing, but it can be built around. And maybe brainstorm isn't what I want to do with this but an opponents end step ponder seems pretty good, as does a day's undoing on their turn or most other sorceries. UR delver can now chain lightning or lava spike in combat, into a price of progress for 1 mana into exquisite firecraft seems ok. It has potential.

[Lemnear]

It's not what I want to be doing, but it can be built around. And maybe brainstorm isn't what I want to do with this but an opponents end step ponder seems pretty good, as does a day's undoing on their turn or most other sorceries. UR delver can now chain lightning or lava spike in combat, into a price of progress for 1 mana into exquisite firecraft seems ok. It has potential.

It does nothing before turn three and even afterwards its no real threat to your opponent if you use it to cast stuff like Ponder.

[rufus]

...

There are plenty of answers in Legacy to be sure, but if left unchecked this thing could get out of hand quick, and that's usually a reasonable criteria for at least giving something a closer look.

If you can fuse off of it, that would be fun, but, most of the time, I'd think Grim Monolith is just better. Even with fuse, you have to use the scry ability to deal with the forced ramping so it's very slow.

[Richard Cheese]

It does nothing before turn three and even afterwards its no real threat to your opponent if you use it to cast stuff like Ponder.

What about draw-step discard or Reanimate/Show and Tell at instant speed?

Still not saying it's good, but I don't think it should be completely dismissed without some brewing/testing.

[bruizar]

if anything, it's going to be boom//bust. This card allows you to play powerful cards for 1 mana after you have armageddoned with it, so you'll be unscrewed fast. Not that this will be a viable deck, but people will try.

[Finn]

I think you should see the use of Brain in a Bottle with instants as a happy coincidence.

Goblin Grenade
Ideas Unbound
Personal Tutor

[(nameless one)]

I am not sure if it really is playable. You have to put the counter on it to use it, you don't get a choice. Then removing counters likely costs more mana then you saved.

Imagine this with rare suspend spells like Restore Balance. Once again, Staxx!

[shocked439]

It does nothing before turn three and even afterwards its no real threat to your opponent if you use it to cast stuff like Ponder.

I think we're focusing on the wrong elements of the cards maybe cantrips and card selection are not what you want to be doing. I think Mr. Cheese has just terrified me with some reanimation effects at instant speed. There are a ton of powerful effects at sorcery speed that this can help you cast at instant speed, not to mention if you include some tap/untap effects to ramp the counters. To completely dismiss this at face value is wrong, the effect is powerful. Whether it will be good enough to see play is yet to be determined.

[tescrin]

There are plenty of answers in Legacy to be sure, but if left unchecked this thing could get out of hand quick, and that's usually a reasonable criteria for at least giving something a closer look.

I think the main difference is that it requires continued investment. CB is free until it's a lock and you don't lose your investment if it gets canned. This guy you could spend 4-5 mana into and get it revoked/decay'd before it's actually done anything. Storm here is gaining no benefit unless they continually used it to T4; even then, just breaking even I think; saving a whole 1 mana that turn. Sure, they could use it again on T5; but what costs 3 in their deck?

Pretend it's in a control deck instead; you don't really need your mana except to Top/Port/Pfire until you win (depending on the deck) so saving a couple mana that requires jumping through hoops seems meh there too.

[Megadeus]

The card is bad. If it were like Vial and made the spell uncounterable I still probably wouldn't consider it. Forcing it to tick up is also bad. It's like vial then in that you really want to play a cirve of spells, but at that point, what are you doing wasting your time and mana in this card in a format like legacy?

[phonics]

The card is basically 'hey lets make an aether vial thing for instants and sorceries, oh but vial was too good so lets MAKE REAL SURE that this one isn't too powerful, or powerful at all.'

[GenghisTom]

Yes to the above two posts.
If my opponent casts this card I don't care. The only immediate threat it represents is that my opponent is going to cast spells they already have in their hand. This is what mana-producing lands are for.
As for the sorcery at instant speed angle, we've already had Quicken for a long time which is much better and still sees no play.

Cool card to test in casual formats though.

[rufus]

I think you should see the use of Brain in a Bottle with instants as a happy coincidence.
...

IMO it's all about fuse cards like Beck // Call and Breaking // Entering or weird sorceries like Day's Undoing that really want to be cast on the opponent's turn.

[TsumiBand]

I dunno... it has Kicker with Proliferate, after all. You just might ramp into that Day's Undoing on turn 5

[Fox]

The problem with split cards is that you're just better off cascading into them. Some sorceries are neat at instant speed (but why aren't we running leyline of anticipation). This artifact provides an effect that is more for exploiting weaknesses inherent in certain cards (i.e. anything with a miracle trigger). Ramping up storm count when everything is getting countered by counterbalance - don't worry you have a 1 mana tendrils.

This is a card for trolling miracles from the sideboard, unless you're doing something extremely fine-tuned. If you want to specialize a deck around this, you need something like this:
-a way to kill revokers
-otherwise uncastable instants/sorcs (off-color)
-firing off higher cmc, oddball spells into a sphere/thorn/thalia effect (that you probably deployed)...so that you can really get 'em by adding in Boseju mana [seems winmore]??

I guess there is an argument to be made that using this can keep you from destroying your mana-base to stretch for abrupt decay. It certainly has applications for Eldrazi decks who have been blood moon'd. My vote still goes to 1-mana tendrils in a deck like charbelcher to let miracles know what you think of counter-top nonsense.

Edit: I think the last mode of scrying is about as relevant as flip-jace ult in a reanimator deck. If you've pulled off your main combo, the damage is already done and you should be very close to winning.

[Lemnear]

If playing sorceries at instant speed were really worth the mana and cardinvestment of Bottle of Brains, people would have toyed with Leyline of Anticipation, which optionally even costs a lot less mana to turn on and also works for all nonland permanents

[Dice_Box]

No information is known as to how she will work yet, but according to Wizards site we are getting a Planeswalking Werewolf with the ability to control her shifts and a personal war on the Church.

[GundamGuy]

No information is known as to how she will work yet, but according to Wizards site we are getting a Planeswalking Werewolf with the ability to control her shifts and a personal war on the Church.

Cool design idea. Really hope we get to see this card soon.

[Ace/Homebrew]

Very interested to see how they pull this one off!
I am not a fan of flip cards, but having had them be part of magic for a few years now and the world not ending, I suppose I should let that go...

Fingers crossed for mono-red to cast and transform into :r:/:g:. Also CMC 4 or less. :wink:

[Richard Cheese]

If playing sorceries at instant speed were really worth the mana and cardinvestment of Bottle of Brains, people would have toyed with Leyline of Anticipation, which optionally even costs a lot less mana to turn on and also works for all nonland permanents

Fair enough, maybe the effect just isn't that powerful. OTOH, Braaaaaaaaaaaaains is way more splashable and has the cost reduction angle going for it.

I'm just not sure what current deck wants any of the effects bad enough to cut another card for it. Off the top of my head maybe Pox since it's all sorceries and it's always blowing up its own lands, or Sneak/Show because they're already running Sol lands, powerful sorceries, and it could let them leave mana open for things like Pierce/Flusterstorm.

Maybe it's not good enough for Legacy, maybe it just doesn't slot into an existing deck. Either way I'm picking some up because it's a unique effect on a rare that's not prohibitively-costed.

[joven]

http://magic.wizards.com/en/story/planeswalkers/arlinn-kord

EDIT:
I guess Arlinn is a RG planeswalker on both sides and transforms as 0 ability and pumps werewolves + attacks as creature on her dark side.

[Octopusman]

The card is basically 'hey lets make an aether vial thing for instants and sorceries, oh but vial was too good so lets MAKE REAL SURE that this one isn't too powerful, or powerful at all.'

2nd

[Admiral_Arzar]

New flip creature: 1/1 for :u: that flips into a Brainstorm.

It's called SKILL INTENSIVE // PILLAR OF THE FORMAT

[PirateKing]

1/1 is too weak, try 3/2 flying

[Gheizen64]

Pillar of the format :1: :u:
Artifact
When Pillar of the format ETB, brainstorm.
Sacrifice pillar of the format : shuffle your deck.
We heard u wanted more brainstorms and that you think chalice is unfair. Here, fixed.

[shocked439]

Pillar of the format :1: :u:
Artifact
When Pillar of the format ETB, brainstorm.
Sacrifice pillar of the format : shuffle your deck.
We heard u wanted more brainstorms and that you think chalice is unfair. Here, fixed.

sorcery speed? but it gets around flusterstorm, I'm so torn. Maybe it should have an activated ability of 1 scry 3. just to get around the downside of it.

[phonics]

sorcery speed? but it gets around flusterstorm, I'm so torn. Maybe it should have an activated ability of 1 scry 3. just to get around the downside of it.

It needs split second, and counters a spell when cast.

[MaximumC]

It needs split second, and counters a spell when cast.

Doesn't transform into a 3/2 flier.

0/10

[shocked439]

It needs split second, and counters a spell when cast.

I think you mean it needs discard ~, pay one life, exile a blue card from your hand counter target spell. If target spell is countered this way brainstorm.
and
Return an island you control to your hand, discard ~, counter target spell unless it's owner pays 1. put a siege rhino token on the battle field cause why not.

We are clearly the best developers ever.

[Cire]

You guys are wasting your time. Your pillar of the format loses to Eldrazi haven't you heard?

[Kagehisa]

Brain in a Bottle is very strong. It lets you cast Hallowed Burial for one mana at opponent's end of turn.

XD

[Darkenslight]

Brain in a Bottle is very strong. It lets you cast Hallowed Burial for one mana at opponent's end of turn.

XD

inb4 Terminus is banned from Legacy.

Also, rumors abound of a transforming werewolf planeswalker.

This should be good.

[bruizar]

Doesn't transform into a 3/2 flier.

0/10

Esperzoa

[MaximumC]

In all seriousness, Gleemax seems like it could be really amazing as a control card. Shields never go down, you jut get ramp and flash for free, and if you want it, you get scry in the late game.


Esperzoa

I love that card so much.

[bruizar]

I think the scry is the best part of the card. Late game scry for 4 looks pretty sweet.

[HSCK]

http://imgur.com/Ej4uX8y

Black Delver variant.

[Dice_Box]

Two mana and card disadvantage...

[thecrav]

I think Heir will act as Delvers 5-X in UBx Delver decks.

I'm not so sure that the discard is a huge drawback.

My first thought is that it fuels delve. Unfortunately, the fun delve cards are no more. However, I could definitely see this being used to help power out an early Tombstalker. With the god hand, you can have the Heir out turn 2 with Tombstalker out turn 3 (T1: Fetch, Cast Deathrite; T2: Fetch, cast Heir; Turn 3: Fetch, flip heir, exile 4 cards, exile a land of their's and pay (1)(B)(B) for Tombstalker.

I kinda wanna throw in Vendilion Clique and just play UB Fliers.

Discarding an enchantment, artifact, or *gasp* tribal enchantment would be sweet for powering up your Goyf.

I thought about Loam for about a second but that's probably only a real thing in a GB deck like Eva Green.

Note: Unlike Morph, Transform does not create a new permanent, so activating Heir in response to removal only works against things like Gut Shot and Darkblast.

[bruizar]

Just wait for the broken madness cards to come out. They'll be in blue because madness / stitcher / crazy laboratory is blue.

The white artifact producer is pretty cool. Arcbound Ravager, Master of Etherium and Myr Enforcer synergize well with that card, eventhough 2W is probably too much for affinity.

http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/attachments/150/832/635926328297608826.png

[Echelon]

@thecrav: Lategame it might be a fine card. At some point Daze and Wasteland lose their value (depending on the MU).

On the other hand, it'll have to compete in Grixis/BUG Delver with stuff like Tarmogoyf and Young Pyromancer. That's pretty hard to do.

[Gheizen64]

May allow you to go straight grixis in the place of goyf.

Also make vengevine great again! Too bad he can't discard twice

[Barook]

Damn shame you actually have to cast the creatures for Bygone Bishop. It might have been actually playable if it had been "nontoken creature enter the battlefield" instead of casting. But casting PLUS paying :2: to draw a card some time later is just too expensive to be any good since it does nothing relevant otherwise.

[bruizar]

There must be some elegant way to cash in those clue tokens. I can only come up with ramping affinity (for Myr Enforcer / Sanctum of Ugin), feeding arcbound ravager or atog, pumping master of etherium, enabling metalcraft in a non-artifact deck (Etched Champion, Auriok Edgewright, Vedalken Certarch), or cashing in the token with Goblin Welder (though I don't see this happening with this specific card).

In Vintage it could perhaps enable very busted Tolarian Academy ramp for creature decks? The card reminds me of Monastery Mentor in a sense.

[Echelon]

Damn shame you actually have to cast the creatures for Bygone Bishop. It might have been actually playable if it had been "nontoken creature enter the battlefield" instead of casting. But casting PLUS paying :2: to draw a card some time later is just too expensive to be any good since it does nothing relevant otherwise.

On the other hand, you do get tokens regardless of whether the creature you cast resolves or not.

And they're artifacts, so they still count for Cranial Plating (which still gives them potential on an otherwise empty board).

They also play well with Arcbound Ravager and Disciple of the Vault.

[swoop]

Aluren!!

1 Cast Aluren,
2 cast Bygone cast harpy/any gating creature get infinitive artifacts?

3???

4 profit

Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Tapatalk

[Darkenslight]

Japanese spoiler:

???(Unrestrained Neonates) :3: :r: :r:
Creature - Vampire ??? (u)
Haste
Madness :2: :r:
4/3

[H]

I think Heir will act as Delvers 5-X in UBx Delver decks.

I'm not so sure that the discard is a huge drawback.

My first thought is that it fuels delve. Unfortunately, the fun delve cards are no more. However, I could definitely see this being used to help power out an early Tombstalker. With the god hand, you can have the Heir out turn 2 with Tombstalker out turn 3 (T1: Fetch, Cast Deathrite; T2: Fetch, cast Heir; Turn 3: Fetch, flip heir, exile 4 cards, exile a land of their's and pay (1)(B)(B) for Tombstalker.

I kinda wanna throw in Vendilion Clique and just play UB Fliers.

Discarding an enchantment, artifact, or *gasp* tribal enchantment would be sweet for powering up your Goyf.

I thought about Loam for about a second but that's probably only a real thing in a GB deck like Eva Green.

Note: Unlike Morph, Transform does not create a new permanent, so activating Heir in response to removal only works against things like Gut Shot and Darkblast.

Yeah, the card is certainly interesting. It is not Delver-level power, but it might still be playable.

One thing to note is that unlike Delver, it is not random and it does not force any deck building constraints (i.e. having a realisticly high number of Instants or Sorceries in your deck). Something like Deadguy Ale could realistically run this and that might be good.

While it's casting cost does not compare favorably with Delver (well, does dodge Misstep), it does have some minor advantages, like not being Blue (Looking at you Pyroblast), 2 power out of the gate, flipping is not random, and discard could be used as an advantage (like you mention, Madness, Delerium, Threshold, Dredge (Loam?), Delve), pumping your Goyfs, etc.).

I'm not saying this is a new staple, but it's an interesting enough effect that I think it warrants looking in to.

[Echelon]

Maybe we'll get some more discard to flip cards.

[H]

Maybe we'll get some more discard to flip cards.

Yeah, it certainly would make sense with Madness and Delirium.

[Echelon]

Exactly. That might make for some cool non-blue stuff. Maybe some odd tools for a couple of tier 1.5/2 decks. Perhaps a replacement for Putrid Imp?

[H]

Exactly. That might make for some cool non-blue stuff. Maybe some odd tools for a couple of tier 1.5/2 decks. Perhaps a replacement for Putrid Imp?

My thought is that they probably keep the effect out of 1 CMC, but who knows, maybe they lose their minds for a moment. The Vampire would have been a bunch more interesting at a 1/1 for just a :b: but I have no doubt they made it a 2/1 for :1::b: very specifically after "testing."

[Gheizen64]

Japanese spoiler:

???(Unrestrained Neonates) :3: :r: :r:
Creature - Vampire ??? (u)
Haste
Madness :2: :r:
4/3

This with the other vampire is a beating in standard, also better than reckless wurm

[rufus]

Bygone Bishop is intriguing, though the interaction with cards like welder probably isn't good enough for legacy.

The vampire is there as a 1-shot madness enabler. IMO it would have been more powerful than delver as a 1/1 for B in a deck with recursion cards like Bloodghast.

[Darkenslight]

New Mythic:

Geralf's Masterpiece :3: :u: :u:
Creature - Zombie Horror
Flying
~ gets -1/-1 for each card in your hand.
:3: :u: , discard three cards: Return ~ from your GY to the battlefield tapped.
7/7

(Source: https://twitter.com/wizards_magic/status/705739573515657216)

[Barook]

Life from the Loam puts 3 card into your hand and can dredge it into your yard.

Aside from that, was Griselbrand's corpse recycled? Other people have pointed out the similarity.

[TsumiBand]

Heir into the 4/3 haste guy with Madness 2R reminds me of some fairly aggressive UG starts from 13 or so years ago...

Also, how legit is the triple LED, triple Madness guy tech hand. Turn 2 murder scene, fucko!

[joven]

Heir into the 4/3 haste guy with Madness 2R reminds me of some fairly aggressive UG starts from 13 or so years ago...

[...]

It seems kind of uninspired that WotC recycle those old gameplay patterns that closely: 2-drop discarding 4-power-body with Madness for 3 mana. :/
Besides some color and flavor shift nothing new except from replacing Trample with Haste.
Also a bit unfun for Limited play.
I don't like Madness.


--
I wonder why the new Lobotomy is uncommon when stuff like Cranial Extraction and similar is rare these days. But I'm not complaining, better this way than mythic instant Pyroclasm.

[Undomian]

There are some discrepancies in rarity/collector's number on this but it's an interesting (if not good enough for Legacy) card:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CctwtJ2WoAACEpd.jpg

[Dice_Box]

The collection text is likely for another card. That aside, this guy will do work. This guy and flip Lily feel like the start of a Modern deck at lest.

[H]

The collection text is likely for another card. That aside, this guy will do work. This guy and flip Lily feel like the start of a Modern deck at lest.

Yeah, it's just a mock-up error. It has the right number and rarity on the Wizards site, it's 131 and a Mythic (http://magic.wizards.com/sites/mtg/files/EN_SOI_InteriorPage_mKSInIAFn0.png).

[Crimhead]

Zombardment!

[Dice_Box]

Zombardment!
Too mana intensive I think.

[square_two]

Wonder if something could work out with Enduring Renewal. You can let zombies mill themselves into your grave...sac outlet with this guy to "cast" them into play. Eh, maybe more of a modern idea if there is wonky support.

[bruizar]

Amazing art on relentless dead.

[rufus]

Zombardment!

I think it's more of a Smallpox kind of card.

[Barook]

2/2 for :b::b:, relevant creature type, evasion (kind-of) and double recursion? :confused: Seems pushed as hell, at least for Standard.

Nahiri also confirmed for mad as fuck:

http://data.iplaymtg.com/attachment/forum/201603/04/183427ogg4ofryhvf96v0o.jpg.thumb.jpg

[H]

That playmat is pretty sick. Not going to Beijing though, :frown:

[Dice_Box]

I want a good Red White walker. Not a White walker with anger management issues, an actual R/W walker. I am White but I am pissed is a cop out for what is an interesting colour combination.

[maharis]

That playmat is pretty sick. Not going to Beijing though, :frown:

Seconded

Nahiri is brutal. I hope she gets an awesome card.

[Barook]

I am White but I am pissed is a cop out for what is an interesting colour combination.
W/R is the worst color combination that is constantly shat on by Wizards. All it does is combat tricks or mashing white & red effects together (Lightning Helix is the poster boy for that) and they call it a day.

I wouldn't expect too much. Considering Nahiri is an artificer and white shares an equipment theme with red, I wouldn't be suprised if at least one effect would be equipment-related.

[maharis]

W/R is the worst color combination that is constantly shat on by Wizards. All it does is combat tricks or mashing white & red effects together (Lightning Helix is the poster boy for that) and they call it a day.

I wouldn't expect too much. Considering Nahiri is an artificer and white shares an equipment theme with red, I wouldn't be suprised if at least one effect would be equipment-related.

Well, a big part of that is that the taxing/land destruction synergy they share is pretty nerfed. And since it's literally the worst thing in the world for any color besides blue and somewhat green to get any sort of card movement/selection what crumbs they do roll out have no prayer of high-level constructed capability. (Except for Eldrazi, they can do anything.)

A PW that pumps out tokens (with haste?) and can dig up equips might not be the worst though.

Nahiri, the Super Mad
1WR
PW-Nahiri
4
+1: Look at the top five cards of your library. You may reveal an Equipment card from among them and put it into your hand. Then put the rest on the top or bottom of your library in any order.
-1: Put a 1/1 red and white Mad Kor token with haste onto the battlefield.
-whatever: Return an artifact you control to its owners hand. If you do, Nahiri, the Super Mad deals X damage to each creature target opponent controls and you gain X life, where X is that artifact's converted mana cost (is this what's happening in the playmat picture?)

[HdH_Cthulhu]

Hey guys dont hate RW! Ajani Vengeant is pretty solid, like 9/10.

[MaximumC]

Hey guys dont hate RW! Ajani Vengeant is pretty solid, like 9/10.

He's freakin' astoundingly awesome. Like, there are legitimately circumstances where I'd much rather have him than Jace TMS and Liliana. He's removal for everything, he protects himself while ramping up, he's good if you're winning or losing, and goes ultimately relatively quickly. He suffers merely from not having a deck that really wants those attributes in the 4 mana slot. Doesn't change the fact that he's stupid good.

[Gheizen64]

Don't think she gonna spit out tokens this time, more probably she just destroy things.

Nahiri, the MADDDD 2RRW
Planeshitter
+1 : deal 2 damage to up to one target creature. If it die, exile it instead.
-3: exile target artifact, enchantment, or land
-7: exile up to three target permanents. If a Sorin planeswalker was between them, you win the game.
Loyalty : 4

[TsumiBand]

It seems kind of uninspired that WotC recycle those old gameplay patterns that closely: 2-drop discarding 4-power-body with Madness for 3 mana. :/
Besides some color and flavor shift nothing new except from replacing Trample with Haste.
Also a bit unfun for Limited play.
I don't like Madness.

Madness was my first Magic deck. I flipping love Madness. This aside though, I think that the mechanic kind of demands that line of play, right -- you establish a Madness outlet, then you reap the benefits if they let it stick. Besides, this Heir is definitely *not* a Wild Mongrel; if the opponent can Shock it, it's fucken ded, so being able to cash it in on a 7-point turn 3 feels pretty fair to me. We'll have to see if there are any Madness outlets that are more or less worth consideration than this new one, if there aren't then the whole discussion is moot.

[Cire]

Madness was my first Magic deck. I flipping love Madness. This aside though, I think that the mechanic kind of demands that line of play, right -- you establish a Madness outlet, then you reap the benefits if they let it stick. Besides, this Heir is definitely *not* a Wild Mongrel; if the opponent can Shock it, it's fucken ded, so being able to cash it in on a 7-point turn 3 feels pretty fair to me. We'll have to see if there are any Madness outlets that are more or less worth consideration than this new one, if there aren't then the whole discussion is moot.

What makes a good madness outlet in Legacy? It either has to be 1 mana, repeatable and with no other investment to be used in Dredge or be an insane draw/combo engine like Survival. Doubt either type of card will be printed.

[Fox]

What makes a good madness outlet in Legacy? It either has to be 1 mana, repeatable and with no other investment to be used in Dredge or be an insane draw/combo engine like Survival. Doubt either type of card will be printed.
Lion's Eye Diamond. Beware however, even though you put in enough work with this mana ability, madness mechanically is flawed because you still have to "cast" the spell - it is slower than split second...

[Lord Seth]

W/R is the worst color combination that is constantly shat on by Wizards. All it does is combat tricks or mashing white & red effects together (Lightning Helix is the poster boy for that) and they call it a day.Still better than UB.

[Meekrab]

Amazing art on relentless dead.

Clearly the sequel to Endless Ranks of the Dead. Very well done by WotC.

[bruizar]

Oh look, they learned something from Delver of Secrets

http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/avatars/thumbnails/122/349/200/283/635927243839144107.pnghttp://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/avatars/thumbnails/122/350/200/283/635927244926738092.png

[jrsthethird]

oh look, they learned something from delver of secrets

http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/avatars/thumbnails/122/349/200/283/635927243839144107.pnghttp://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/avatars/thumbnails/122/350/200/283/635927244926738092.png

lol

[Gheizen64]

New removal spell spoiled,

1W
Sorcery
Exile target creature and all creatures with the same name. Its controller investigate for each non-token exiled this way

Seems pretty good even if probably not legacy good. Coincidentally is good Vs eldrazi as it dodge chalice

[swoop]

New removal spell spoiled,

1W
Sorcery
Exile target creature and all creatures with the same name. Its controller investigate for each non-token exiled this way

Seems pretty good even if probably not legacy good. Coincidentally is good Vs eldrazi as it dodge chalice

how does it dodge chalice on 2? just asking.

[Gheizen64]

how does it dodge chalice on 2? just asking.

How does eldrazi cast chalice on 2 with eye of ugins and eldrazi temples? Just asking.

[Dice_Box]

how does it dodge chalice on 2? just asking.
It doesn't, but I don't think he was claiming it does. After all, if you open in the blind with Chalice, 2 is the third number on your list to put it on.

[swoop]

How does eldrazi cast chalice on 2 with eye of ugins and eldrazi temples? Just asking.
With four mana, obviously

Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Tapatalk

[joven]

Oh look, they learned something from Delver of Secrets

http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/avatars/thumbnails/122/349/200/283/635927243839144107.pnghttp://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/avatars/thumbnails/122/350/200/283/635927244926738092.png

Awful and stupid design. And broken in Limited, crazily swingy. And probably not usable in other formats ... ok maybe Standard but probably not. Awful!

--
Declaration in Stone seems pretty strong, although Sorcery. There's card draw attached! Probably as 1-of playable in Legacy.

[jrsthethird]

Awful and stupid design. And broken in Limited, crazily swingy. And probably not usable in other formats ... ok maybe Standard but probably not. Awful!

I love the design. Nothing wrong with simple, nostalgic designs that paint the world and link back to the original set. If every card were groundbreaking we'd run out of cards to print.

[TsumiBand]

New removal spell spoiled,

1W
Sorcery
Exile target creature and all creatures with the same name. Its controller investigate for each non-token exiled this way

Seems pretty good even if probably not legacy good. Coincidentally is good Vs eldrazi as it dodge chalice

Well, it's a sorcery. Save that though, decent removal, a bit Maelstrom Pulse-y but you know, just for creatures. I... think I'm ambivalent

[maharis]

Well, it's a sorcery. Save that though, decent removal, a bit Maelstrom Pulse-y but you know, just for creatures. I... think I'm ambivalent

I could see something like Zoo or UWR Delver wanting this card. STP is the gold standard but it's awkward in aggressive decks. Path to Exile is bad news sometimes when your opponent untaps and does something insane. Giving them essentially a slowtrip is probably preferable. A Delver deck could even have Daze backup if the opponent taxes their own mana by drawing and trying to cast something the next turn. Or you could play Null Rod/Stony Silence and have a good time (other than not being able to use equipment)

[bruizar]

This is hot. 5 mana is too much obviously, but this card has combo written all over it. I bet its going to end up in a lot of EDH decks

http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/avatars/thumbnails/122/360/200/283/635927649577004108.png

[iatee]

I could see something like Zoo or UWR Delver wanting this card. STP is the gold standard but it's awkward in aggressive decks. Path to Exile is bad news sometimes when your opponent untaps and does something insane. Giving them essentially a slowtrip is probably preferable. A Delver deck could even have Daze backup if the opponent taxes their own mana by drawing and trying to cast something the next turn. Or you could play Null Rod/Stony Silence and have a good time (other than not being able to use equipment)

There's not a single 2 mana removal spell that's regularly played outside of Abrupt Decay (which hits non-creatures and is already 'kind of not 2 mana' because it can't be soft-countered). Because most creature decks have some sort of tempo/mana denial element attached, being 2 mana *and* sorcery speed is just so bad. For a sorcery speed 2 mana unconditional removal spell to ever be playable I think it would have to come with pretty decent upside rather than downside. And all of this stuff has to go through Standard first, so that's probably not gonna happen too often.

Probably Modern playable on some level.

[TsumiBand]

I have no goddamned idea what to think of Investigate. It is such a weird mechanic. I would love to see it somehow be a booster to control-oriented Affinity decks, maybe even bring back the BROODSTAR as a giant fucking flying face-smasher. You can control a ton of artifacts without actually dropping your whole hand, plus DOODSTAR will be like a 16/16 in 105% of your matches and you don't get wrecked by removal because you'll always have a way to draw counters because you'll have dozens, nay, bakers' dozens of Clues in play.

I just really wanna play Broodstar you guys

[HdH_Cthulhu]

Since its a sorcery Journey to Nowhere is probably better. I think the card disadvantage is more relevant then the huge tempo gain if you remove 2 creatures.
You really want this in a tempo strategy so he cant use the slow trips, but a sorcery removal in a tempo deck is awkward...

Kinda rusty on token name rules. Can you hit a bunch of soldier tokens and get all the things? Then it might be a cool card in WB token. Removal/Draw is nice!

[Darkenslight]

Since its a sorcery Journey to Nowhere is probably better. I think the card disadvantage is more relevant then the huge tempo gain if you remove 2 creatures.
You really want this in a tempo strategy so he cant use the slow trips, but a sorcery removal in a tempo deck is awkward...

Kinda rusty on token name rules. Can you hit a bunch of soldier tokens and get all the things? Then it might be a cool card in WB token. Removal/Draw is nice!

You exile all the Soldier tokens, and get no Clues.

...Welcome to war on Innistrad.

[TsumiBand]

Yeah if an effect creates tokens and doesn't name them (like the card that makes Llanowar Elves tokens for example) their name is their creature type. Matters because multiple sources could create a single token type with the same name, or because not all token types have the same name.

[Aggro_zombies]

I just really wanna play Broodstar you guys
Well, the good news is that in EDH, you can!

[Zombie]

I have no goddamned idea what to think of Investigate. It is such a weird mechanic. I would love to see it somehow be a booster to control-oriented Affinity decks, maybe even bring back the BROODSTAR as a giant fucking flying face-smasher. You can control a ton of artifacts without actually dropping your whole hand, plus DOODSTAR will be like a 16/16 in 105% of your matches and you don't get wrecked by removal because you'll always have a way to draw counters because you'll have dozens, nay, bakers' dozens of Clues in play.

I just really wanna play Broodstar you guys

I think it's something interesting for the first time in a long while. Too slow to work in Legacy, but it seems really fun. Also allows stuff to give people oodles of cards for free at the time an effect triggers so you can cost it aggressively, but still need to be in a position to open the presents. Like, it's not complex, but the decisions should be interesting. I think it's easily one of the best new mechanics in ages. Only problem is that it's so tied to a mystery theme.

[Richard Cheese]

Awful and stupid design. And broken in Limited, crazily swingy. And probably not usable in other formats ... ok maybe Standard but probably not. Awful!

--
Declaration in Stone seems pretty strong, although Sorcery. There's card draw attached! Probably as 1-of playable in Legacy.

If growing up in the 90's has taught me anything, this almost certainly isn't his final form.

[joven]

I love the design. Nothing wrong with simple, nostalgic designs that paint the world and link back to the original set. If every card were groundbreaking we'd run out of cards to print.

Nostalgic? Innistrad was just a few years ago. And Delver is everydays unnerving business in Legacy and Modern. Delver really didn't need to be continued. Also, this new one will be irrelevant to all formats and just screws up Limited. It's just dumb.

[Barook]

If growing up in the 90's has taught me anything, this almost certainly isn't his final form.
Oh boy, I can't wait for the third Innistrad block where you can announce the flip trigger of the third Delver evolution by screaming "And this... Is... to go... even further beyond!", followed up by a slow-play warning because you screamed "Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhh!" for 3.5 minutes straight.

Edit: I really dig the flavor of this set, even if the cards don't turn out playable for Legacy.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cc0PlnpWAAAeJYY.png

I wonder about the artifact-subtheme (especially with Cluestones). Might we get an artifact-related plane next?

[supremePINEAPPLE]

Yeah the flavor has been great so far and the evil white theme is coming through strong. The art on that card is pretty sweet too.

I hope we see some more eternal playable flip cards. I know it annoys people but I really like that mechanic for some reason.

[Dice_Box]

If ever there was a set for Jaya and Chandra to meet and burn shit to the ground...

[joven]

New Avacyn looks harmless in comparison to her former self (8/8 flying vigilance everything indestructible). And she doesn't look evil, not even angry (on the artwork) although red.

I somehow don't get that crap about "pissed" Nahiri and "evil" Avacyn. Doesn't make sense to me so far. If Nahiri is pissed because of the Eldrazi why didn't she take it out on them. Why on Sorin/Innistrad? Braindead chick? Also, the Eldrazi are gone/beaten, didn't she get the news?

[bruizar]

new avacyn is wotcs attempt to print money again

[Dice_Box]

New Avacyn looks harmless in comparison to her former self (8/8 flying vigilance everything indestructible). And she doesn't look evil, not even angry (on the artwork) although red.

I somehow don't get that crap about "pissed" Nahiri and "evil" Avacyn. Doesn't make sense to me so far. If Nahiri is pissed because of the Eldrazi why didn't she take it out on them. Why on Sorin/Innistrad? Braindead chick? Also, the Eldrazi are gone/beaten, didn't she get the news?
Because Sorin was meant to turn up and help keep the situation from happening. (The Eldrazi releasing) He actually did do that, but then left Zendikar once our fine Elf friend monumentally fucked up.

[HSCK]

new avacyn is wotcs attempt to print money again

Um, that's the point of having a business isn't it?

[Dice_Box]

http://i.imgur.com/DERQugzh.jpg

[Lord Seth]

Oh look, they learned something from Delver of Secrets

http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/avatars/thumbnails/122/349/200/283/635927243839144107.pnghttp://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/avatars/thumbnails/122/350/200/283/635927244926738092.pngI actually really like it.

[iamajellydonut]

New Avacyn looks harmless in comparison to her former self (8/8 flying vigilance everything indestructible).

Only if you're comparing bra size. Otherwise Newvacyn is hot shit in comparison to her old saggy self.

[joven]

Only if you're comparing bra size. Otherwise Newvacyn is hot shit in comparison to her old saggy self.

Bra size can be important! ;)
The permanent indestructible for all your permanents of old Avacyn is pretty strong combined with those 8/8 vigilance boobs.
The new Avacyn has flash and protects one turn (just creatures!). Ok, that can be a nice 2-for-1 if you have 5 mana open. She is then a Serra Angel until you lose a creature. If she lives in the next upkeep she does a small wipe+burn and is a 6/5 vanilla flier. Not exactly hot shit IMO.
Well, and both probably matter almost only in Commander. The new one might also see some Standard play.
If there wasn't that much exiling removal the original Avacyn would at least be an interesting cheat-into-play target.

Why is the new Avacyn not on the spoiled checklist card??

[jrsthethird]

Nostalgic? Innistrad was just a few years ago. And Delver is everydays unnerving business in Legacy and Modern. Delver really didn't need to be continued. Also, this new one will be irrelevant to all formats and just screws up Limited. It's just dumb.

Time Spiral was a nostalgia set and drew on themes as recent as Scourge, which was *gasp* only 3 years prior!

So a nostalgic version of a card that's ingrained in the player base, but is completely powered down due to where it lies on the curve, is bad? And Limited? Snapping Drake is good. But here's the thing, the flip mechanic is completely different than Delver. You mill the card, so you never draw it. The card can help graveyard strategies (a la Screeching Skaab), which were present in Innistrad block and here as well. Also, assume your Limited deck is 17 lands and 15 creatures. That leaves what, 8 spells? Most of which are removal. Do you really want to lose your prime removal spell just to cast Giant Strength on a Snapping Drake?

Give me a break man, and actually think about it before lumping it in with incidental Delver hate.


Why is the new Avacyn not on the spoiled checklist card??

The collector number on the checklist card is CH1. There's probably a CH2 that is used for the rares and mythics in the set.

[Barook]

So Sorin scalps Avacyn? Interesting.

I also wonder when we get our Thalia throwback and if she's going to be Legacy-playable.

[guillemnicolau]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cc0_hP4VIAABqYL.pnghttps://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cc0_hXgUUAASlTk.png

[Zombie]

Oh boy, I can't wait for the third Innistrad block where you can announce the flip trigger of the third Delver evolution by screaming "And this... Is... to go... even further beyond!", followed up by a slow-play warning because you screamed "Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhh!" for 3.5 minutes straight.

That's not enough, I think? The show had what, a planet set to go off in 5 minutes for like 5-6 20 minute episodes.

Trailer's up, it seems. Could we please get rid of Emo Boy Jace already? I much preferred it when every plane had it's own story.

[Gheizen64]

While not legacy playable, i really like that Avacyn. She'll probably be obnoxious in Standard though. A Flash serra angel + combat trick that flip into a 4 mana earthquake could be rhyno-lite.

[Nina]

If ever there was a set for Jaya and Chandra to meet and burn shit to the ground...

That word be awesome indeed. (Some Time Spirial Block flavored setting... Dreams...)


http://i.imgur.com/DERQugzh.jpg

Where is that from?

[Seraphix]

ART



Sorin really knows how to wear that trench coat.

[Dice_Box]

Where is that from?
Popped up in Reddit. Not sure where it came from before that. I normally stalk Reddit in spoiler season, gives up the best bits of fun.


Sorin really knows how to wear that trench coat.
Agreed, that art rocks.

[Darkenslight]

Popped up in Reddit. Not sure where it came from before that. I normally stalk Reddit in spoiler season, gives up the best bits of fun.

My understanding is that it was artwork on display at GP Beijing's Laboratory.

It's amazing artwork, nonetheless.

[Barook]

It's amazing artwork, nonetheless.
Jace and Tamiyo look kinda derpy in it, but the rest is really great. I wonder if they get cropped out on the card art.

[GoblinSettler]

Jace and Tamiyo look kinda derpy in it, but the rest is really great. I wonder if they get cropped out on the card art.

Awww man, browser width totally cropped those two out.I didn't notice. It looks much better with just Sorin and the angel.

[davelin]

Awful and stupid design. And broken in Limited, crazily swingy. And probably not usable in other formats ... ok maybe Standard but probably not. Awful!

--
Declaration in Stone seems pretty strong, although Sorcery. There's card draw attached! Probably as 1-of playable in Legacy.

I think from a flavor standpoint this is a homerun.

[HdH_Cthulhu]

Yah the "too good" non rare blue flyer for limited is now in every set(skyspawner)! Hes kinda hard to flip thou... On the other hand avacyn in limited GG lol!

[Amon Amarth]

That Sorin + Avacyn art is A+. I really dig Sorin as a character though so I'm a bit biased. Looks like he is killing/cleansing Avacyn since we know she goes a bit crazy. Tamiyo is also still alive. This set looks like a flavor homerun like the previous Innistrad with a continuation of the story from the last couple blocks. Good stuff so far.

[Darkenslight]

That Sorin + Avacyn art is A+. I really dig Sorin as a character though so I'm a bit biased. Looks like he is killing/cleansing Avacyn since we know she goes a bit crazy. Tamiyo is also still alive. This set looks like a flavor homerun like the previous Innistrad with a continuation of the story from the last couple blocks. Good stuff so far.

The speculation is that the artwork of Sorin killing Avacyn is for something like Vindicate.

[Dice_Box]

That art to me hits the same scale as the Serra v Hippy from the 7th ed Fat pack. I love the art in this game when it hits home. Underground Sea is another of those just stunning moments in art that we have this game to thank for.

http://40.media.tumblr.com/7ad681e13d9dfb575ce2370c8b5c47f9/tumblr_mokr6jCsLC1sus7tno1_1280.jpg

[Zombie]

Hippy looks a lot like the Dragonspawn in Hordes.

[Noctalor]

https://scontent-mxp1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/12802730_1116651858366432_5637917312562120315_n.jpg?oh=c002da4aab38decc5baf9c3312c43d1d&oe=575FB1D9
https://scontent-mxp1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xft1/v/t1.0-9/12800363_1116651905033094_7193276219857391392_n.jpg?oh=39cf429938f76be0a1a7a292f93b5e52&oe=57656EBA

LMAO blue flipping shit has to be busted

[bruizar]

https://scontent-mxp1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/12802730_1116651858366432_5637917312562120315_n.jpg?oh=c002da4aab38decc5baf9c3312c43d1d&oe=575FB1D9
https://scontent-mxp1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xft1/v/t1.0-9/12800363_1116651905033094_7193276219857391392_n.jpg?oh=39cf429938f76be0a1a7a292f93b5e52&oe=57656EBA

LMAO blue flipping shit has to be busted

fucking morons at wizards.


thoughtseize, probe, ponder, snapcaster thoughtseize, trigger on stack, bounce everything including your snapcaster, thoughtseize resolves discarding the creature you just bounced, attack for 7, snapcaster again

If that's all too much work, you can always go for bad combos using hex parasite

[Dice_Box]

Holy shit. Out of bolt range too of course. Fuck.

[iatee]

This card seems insane.

[Noctalor]

This shit also can resolve at istant speed any board in any mu.
This shit can basicly break elves combos, kill marit lage, fuck with mentor and pyro, resolve empty, block tinker, resolve entreat, likely fuck hard with show and tell and much much more.

Looks legit to me