Jumping back in to Legacy after 5 years

[Gunnar]

Hey Guys/Gals,

Just as the title suggests, I'm considering playing legacy again after taking a break.

Back when I played; Zoo, Countertop, and Merfolk were some of the top contenders. Dredge, Lands, Ant/Tes, and Landstill were also very competitive.

I came back to this forum, and suddenly the decks I used to play and play against are gone.

My question is this: what happened to the meta in Legacy to spark this change? It seems that blue-control based decks are not as prominent as they once were. Is counter-top still competitive? I've noticed its called Miracles now.

Why isn't Zoo competitive?

Sorry for the landslide of questions. But I can't ask any of my casual player friends as they would have no idea of what I'm talking about.

Thanks.

[MaximumC]

Hey Guys/Gals,

Just as the title suggests, I'm considering playing legacy again after taking a break.

Back when I played; Zoo, Countertop, and Merfolk were some of the top contenders. Dredge, Lands, Ant/Tes, and Landstill were also very competitive.

I came back to this forum, and suddenly the decks I used to play and play against are gone.

My question is this: what happened to the meta in Legacy to spark this change? It seems that blue-control based decks are not as prominent as they once were. Is counter-top still competitive? I've noticed its called Miracles now.

Why isn't Zoo competitive?

Sorry for the landslide of questions. But I can't ask any of my casual player friends as they would have no idea of what I'm talking about.

Thanks.

Welcome back! First things first: you're boned. Prices have exploded over the last decade, particularly the last five years, and buying into an Eternal Format is insane at the moment. Dual lands are up to $300 a pop, and Wizards just announced Eternal Masters, ensuring everything on the Reserve List is about to explode again. Sorry about that!

On to your specific questions:

1. Zoo, Countertop, and Merfolk are all still competitive. However, Countertop as an archetype has nearly universally adopted Entreat the Angels and Termius and become what we now call "Miracles." Zoo has lost some of its identity to decks like Burn and Infect that do much of what Zoo tries to do, better. Merfolk is still Merfolk and can be happily run like it used to, even if it's not a top contender all the time.

2. Blue control is still a thing, but almost exclusively in Miracles. Other top decks with Blue have shifted to combo (Storm, Sneak/Show) or have gone into tempo (Delver).

3. Zoo (Kird Ape + Wild Nacatl) is just outclassed for what it tries to do by other decks, in my opinion. If you want to win with 1-drops, then either Burn or Infect probably do this better.

[Ace/Homebrew]

Is counter-top still competitive? I've noticed its called Miracles now.

Why isn't Zoo competitive?
This made me chuckle a bit. Zoo is no longer competitive largely because counter-top is now called Miracles. :tongue:

[tescrin]

My question is this: what happened to the meta in Legacy to spark this change? It seems that blue-control based decks are not as prominent as they once were. Is counter-top still competitive? I've noticed its called Miracles now.
Some of the stuff is still quite prevelant:
- ANT/TES are around, ANT frequently popping up to the DTB
- Merfolk/Burn and decks like that are always around to keep people honest
- "Countertop" and "Landstill" are still things, but they function differently now because they're worlds better. They're both top contenders.


That said, you can still do well with Zoo, if morphed a bit. Gibbon it to the Format (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?28831-Gibbon-it-to-the-format-7-2-with-Zoo-at-GP-New-Jersey) is an excellent example of how it's a meta deck that can just beat people up.

[sjmcc13]

This made me chuckle a bit. Zoo is no longer competitive largely because counter-top is now called Miracles. :tongue:

Delver hurt it a bit as well.

[Lord_Mcdonalds]

Delver hurt it a bit as well.

Delver made it absolutely pointless

[Richard Cheese]

Some of the stuff is still quite prevelant:
- ANT/TES are around, ANT frequently popping up to the DTB
- Merfolk/Burn and decks like that are always around to keep people honest
- "Countertop" and "Landstill" are still things, but they function differently now because they're worlds better. They're both top contenders.


That said, you can still do well with Zoo, if morphed a bit. Gibbon it to the Format (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?28831-Gibbon-it-to-the-format-7-2-with-Zoo-at-GP-New-Jersey) is an excellent example of how it's a meta deck that can just beat people up.

As much as I appreciate the shout out, I still feel that most of my success was due to a string of opponent fuckups/bad luck and good matchups. It's still a fun deck though, and with some luck and the right game plan you have a fighting chance against the top decks.

Against Miracles, you just have to learn how not to over-extend into Terminus. Run out a couple threats and throw all your burn at their face until they get Counterbalance/Top going. Try to sandbag a Ghor-Clan, then force their hand on removal with Gibbons.

Against Delver decks, your guys are way bigger than theirs, and your removal is super cheap. Just don't walk into Daze and you're fine. Pyromancer is annoying but Volcanic Fallout is seriously amazing right now. Trample is also pretty good.

Burn is mostly a joke now that they rely on creatures for more damage. Fetch basics, kill their Eidolon, play Gibbons, play Ghor-Clan. Without interaction, you're just a burn deck with bigger guys.

Combo still sucks, but not as bad. White has so many amazing hatebears now that your post-board matchup against combo is a lot less abysmal.

Lands is mostly terrible, and a boring matchup to boot. Just leave to go get food. With any luck your opponent will be so caught up in masturbating with Loam and Punishing Fire that they won't even notice you're gone and you can probably still get the draw. Nobody can prove you didn't bring that funnel cake in your bag.

Also, don't play Experiment One. From my list in the linked post, I'd cut them for probably the full sets of Pridemage and Gibbons, and maybe another land to run Fireblast over Domri. There's also Steppe Lynx, Lavamancer, and a dozen other decent options that aren't terrible pieces of shit.

[sco0ter]

Interesting post, because I made a pause for the last ~5+ years as well and now starting to read into the format again. Last time I played Survival+Vengevine was THE deck...

Some of the more prominent decks I remember from the time are these, what happened to them?

Goblins? (I've read it's bad these day, why?)
Cephalid Breakfast? (was quite a hype at some day)
Armageddon Stax? (never top tier, but it seemed more popular than today)
4C Landstill? (with Pernicious Deed, Standstill, etc...)
Dragon Stompy + other Stompy variants? (Sol lands/Chalice seem to see play primarily in MUD kind of decks)
Aggro Loam? (Why no more Terravore, Tarmogoyf, Devastating Dreams, ...?)
Stiflenought?
Goyf Sligh?
Baseruption (oh I think it was even longer ago, but Nassif won a GP with it).

[Echelon]

In short it probably comes down to "can't keep up with the DTBs anymore".

I can imagine Stiflenaught for example took a good big hit when either Abrupt Decay or Emrakul, the Aeons Torn was printed. One is an uncounterable 2 mana card that answers the 12/12, the other is a 3 mana 15/15 flying spaghettimonster that outclasses the 12/12 and makes you sacrifice your board when it turns sideways (courtesy of Show and Tell).

Loam is still around though. It just has a bunch of other toys to play with nowadays.

There also has been some powercreep. Where first Tarmagoyf was the biggest, baddest thing around we now get 5/5s for 1 mana, printed as a common (Gurmag Angler). Loam doesn't run it, but that is the sort of thing one faces nowadays. There even was a short period where we could legally run 4 Ancestral Recall in the form of Treasure Cruise (another delightful common).

[Richard Cheese]

Interesting post, because I made a pause for the last ~5+ years as well and now starting to read into the format again. Last time I played Survival+Vengevine was THE deck...

Some of the more prominent decks I remember from the time are these, what happened to them?

Goblins? (I've read it's bad these day, why?)
Cephalid Breakfast? (was quite a hype at some day)
Armageddon Stax? (never top tier, but it seemed more popular than today)
4C Landstill? (with Pernicious Deed, Standstill, etc...)
Dragon Stompy + other Stompy variants? (Sol lands/Chalice seem to see play primarily in MUD kind of decks)
Aggro Loam? (Why no more Terravore, Tarmogoyf, Devastating Dreams, ...?)
Stiflenought?
Goyf Sligh?
Baseruption (oh I think it was even longer ago, but Nassif won a GP with it).

This mostly boils down to a handful of recent printings. Most of the old aggro decks just roll over to Terminus. It gets around every form of protection, and graveyard recursion as well. Between Jace, Top, Brainstorm, Ponder, and fetches, it's pretty trivial for Miracles to fire off several of these per game.

Heavily graveyard-dependent decks have fallen out of favor because of Deathrite Shaman and Rest in Peace. Both are cheap, easily splashable, and highly effective. Aggro Loam has moved further away from the yard, with most lists only running 2 Loams anymore, and has gotten considerably less aggro as well because of Terminus.

Stiflenought pretty much just disappeared because of Abrupt Decay. There are also much better fatties to play off Show and Tell now, like Emrakul and Griselbrand.

[jrsthethird]

This mostly boils down to a handful of recent printings. Most of the old aggro decks just roll over to Terminus. It gets around every form of protection, and graveyard recursion as well. Between Jace, Top, Brainstorm, Ponder, and fetches, it's pretty trivial for Miracles to fire off several of these per game.

Don't forget the ol' 5WWU Snap + Terminus that puts the match into turns and an eventual draw. :/