[Deck] Mono Blue Dark Depths Standstill

[Captain Hammer]

I'm looking for some input on developing a deck that I think has quite a bit of potential.

I think blue finally has all the pieces needed to enable a resilient monoblue landstill deck. And I think Dark Depths is a good way to achieve this since lands can be played under a standstill without issue and the deck can be chock full of internal synergies

Here is a proposed list...

14 Island
4 Thespian's Stage
4 Mishra's Factory
4 Wasteland
3 Dark Depths
1 Karakas

4 Ponder
4 Expedition Map
4 Standstill
4 Intuition
3 Crucible of Worlds

4 Force of Will
3 Misdirection
4 Spell Pierce/Dispel/Negate

The deck plays a lot of internal synergies.

Some of the most notable ones are below...
Dark Depths + Thespian's Stage/Vesuva = Indestructable flying 20/20 as early as turn 2.
Standstill + Mishra's Factory = Beatdown
Crucible on the board followed by an Intuition for a Dark Depths + Vesuva + Deep Analysis
Crucible + Wastelock or Factory Beatdown or recurring Dark Depths
Turn 1 Expedition Map -> Turn 2 Standstill -> Turn 3/4 activate Expedition Map to find the missing combo piece and combo out.
Standstill inducing your opponent to give you multiple land drops to set up your land based combo
11 Counterspells to protect your Marit Lage from StP (since the Marit Lage is already resilient to most other removal spells and is uncounterable)
Intuition -> Crucible + 2 copies of whatever land you needed to combo out
MisD to either win counterwars or redirect StP from Marit Lage to your own factory if your opponent has no creatures

One alternative is to cut the 1 drops from the list to play Chalice of the Void. This nixes their StPs (since the Marit Lage is already resilient to all over removal spells and is uncounterable) and devastates most decks thereby protecting Marit Lage.


Alternatively, if you're not a fan of Standstill, a green splash would be the route to take...

10 Fetchlands
3 Tropical Island
2 Island
1 Forest
3 Thespian's Stage
3 Wasteland
3 Dark Depths

4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Crop Rotation
4 Living Wish
4 Intuition
3 Crucible of Worlds

4 Force of Will
3 Misdirection
3 Dispel/Negate
2 Jace

SB:
1 Thespian's Stage
1 Wasteland
1 Dark Depths
1 Karakas
1 Maze of Ith
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Tabernacle
1 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Xantid Swarm
1 Deathrite Shaman
1 Faerie Macabre
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Eternal Witness
1 Thing in the Ice
1 Trygon Predator
1 Courser of Kruphix
1 Gilded Drake
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Sower of Temptation


I would love to get feedback on bringing either list closer to optimal.

[lixilisk]

i dont see how u can activate dark depths turn 2, there is no mana accel to activate your thespians stage. If you play vesuva you would need to copy a thespians in order to copy a dark depths so that's way beyond turn 2. (unless you mean vesuva copy dark depths, which would leave you still with a 10 counter dark depths no matter which one you sac)

it feels like vesuva is pretty redundant.

[square_two]

Are you sure about Vesuva? It enters as a copy of a land, which means it will enter the battlefield with ice counters on it if it is copying Dark Depths.

[LMental]

Cool concept; Dark Depths seems to fit very nicely into Mono-U Landstill.

Why Vesuva? Playing more Wastelands and Factories seems strictly better.

If you're playing Map, run a miser's Karakas and maybe a Tabernacle too.

I'd want a land base like:

4 Wasteland
4 Factory
4 Stage
3 Dark Depths
1 Karakas
10 Island

And then to play something like:

4 Standstill
4 Expedition Map
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will

As a start. 4 Inuition is overkill; it's a slow, clunky card you don't need to win. I'd play 1, max. Play Snapcaster Mage, Vendilion Clique, and Jace, the Mind Sculptor in some number each to give you an alternate angle. Consider Daze as additional protection (T2 standstill with Daze back up is good) and perhaps even Sensei's Diving Top. Gitaxian Probe is good in a streamlined deck like this, as well.

Other cards to consider, on top of the ones I mentioned:

Ponder
Counterspell
Spell Pierce & Snare

[Captain Hammer]

Cool concept; Dark Depths seems to fit very nicely into Mono-U Landstill.

Why Vesuva? Playing more Wastelands and Factories seems strictly better.

If you're playing Map, run a miser's Karakas and maybe a Tabernacle too.

I'd want a land base like:

4 Wasteland
4 Factory
4 Stage
3 Dark Depths
1 Karakas
10 Island

And then to play something like:

4 Standstill
4 Expedition Map
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will

As a start. 4 Inuition is overkill; it's a slow, clunky card you don't need to win. I'd play 1, max. Play Snapcaster Mage, Vendilion Clique, and Jace, the Mind Sculptor in some number each to give you an alternate angle. Consider Daze as additional protection (T2 standstill with Daze back up is good) and perhaps even Sensei's Diving Top. Gitaxian Probe is good in a streamlined deck like this, as well.

Other cards to consider, on top of the ones I mentioned:

Ponder
Counterspell
Spell Pierce & Snare

Thanks for the excellent feedback.

I was mistaken about how Vesuva interacted with Dark Depths, I updated the lists to better reflect the combo.

[LMental]

Thanks for the excellent feedback.

I was mistaken about how Vesuva interacted with Dark Depths, I updated the lists to better reflect the combo.

I still think 4 Dark Depths is overkill as it does nothing on its own, not even tap for mana, and you have other ways of finding it. The Karakas is really key, I promise you. You'll want it against S&T, Lands, and Reanimator.

[maharis]

Seems like tolaria west would be good here, tutors for either half of the combo under a Standstill and enables EE to clean out cards like DRS or Delver that can get under and pressure you, or Chalice to beat combo, or pact of negation if that's relevant.

[Captain Hammer]

I still think 4 Dark Depths is overkill as it does nothing on its own, not even tap for mana, and you have other ways of finding it. The Karakas is really key, I promise you. You'll want it against S&T, Lands, and Reanimator.

Good feedback, I made the tweak.

[Captain Hammer]

Seems like tolaria west would be good here, tutors for either half of the combo under a Standstill and enables EE to clean out cards like DRS or Delver that can get under and pressure you, or Chalice to beat combo, or pact of negation if that's relevant.

That's a very good idea. What would you cut to make room for it?

[LMental]

I think there are two ways to go with this, and I'm not sure either is good enough.

Fetches + Brainstorm : the main reason to run blue, seriously. You can play Stifle to protect yourself from Wastelands, and Tolaria West perhaps (cutting some number of Expedition Maps) to transmute into Academy Ruins + Engineered Explosives (you can also fetch a singleton dual land to EE for 2). The problem here is that now you're playing a ton of lands and not that many Islands. This makes playing Daze difficult, so I'm wondering how you survive the early game. Playing so many lands makes it a natural fit to play Mox Diamond. Once you play Mox Diamond, you might as well play Chalice of the Void. At which point you cut Brainstorm. At which point you might as well play Life from the Loam and normal Lands. Point being: I'm not sure this concept is better than normal lands.

If you don't play Fetches and Brainstorm, then you've got an even better reason to play Mox Diamond and Chalice. So the same problem ensues.

And if you seriously think Ponder is good enough by itself, well, I think you're probably wrong.

[Clark Kant]

I think there are two ways to go with this, and I'm not sure either is good enough.

Fetches + Brainstorm : the main reason to run blue, seriously. You can play Stifle to protect yourself from Wastelands, and Tolaria West perhaps (cutting some number of Expedition Maps) to transmute into Academy Ruins + Engineered Explosives (you can also fetch a singleton dual land to EE for 2). The problem here is that now you're playing a ton of lands and not that many Islands. This makes playing Daze difficult, so I'm wondering how you survive the early game. Playing so many lands makes it a natural fit to play Mox Diamond. Once you play Mox Diamond, you might as well play Chalice of the Void. At which point you cut Brainstorm. At which point you might as well play Life from the Loam and normal Lands. Point being: I'm not sure this concept is better than normal lands.

If you don't play Fetches and Brainstorm, then you've got an even better reason to play Mox Diamond and Chalice. So the same problem ensues.

And if you seriously think Ponder is good enough by itself, well, I think you're probably wrong.

There is no basis to pigeonhole fetch lands into a monoblue deck that has no need for them and gains no benefit from them purely for the sake of playing Brainstorm. The lifeless, vulnerability to Stifle and Blood Moon is not worth the trade off just for the sake of squeezing in Brainstorm when Ponder is more than capable of filling the same role. Even with fetchlands, you're not guaranteed to draw them when you most need them, and without a fetchland, Brainstorm becomes significantly worse than Ponder.

Likewise, there is no benefit to playing Mox Diamond. You're not an aggro deck trying to dump your hand onto the board in the first two turns. You're a control deck that happens to have a resilient combo finisher.

In what way does Life from the Loam advance this deck's game plan? It doesn't.

[maharis]

There is no basis to pigeonhole fetch lands into a monoblue deck that has no need for them and gains no benefit from them purely for the sake of playing Brainstorm. The lifeless, vulnerability to Stifle and Blood Moon is not worth the trade off just for the sake of squeezing in Brainstorm when Ponder is more than capable of filling the same role. Even with fetchlands, you're not guaranteed to draw them when you most need them, and without a fetchland, Brainstorm becomes significantly worse than Ponder.

Likewise, there is no benefit to playing Mox Diamond. You're not an aggro deck trying to dump your hand onto the board in the first two turns. You're a control deck that happens to have a resilient combo finisher.

In what way does Life from the Loam advance this deck's game plan? It doesn't.

Brainstorm + fetches is the best consistency engine in the format. You are a mono-color combo deck that's nearly half lands and your only way to interact is on the stack or with things like bounce, and very limited artifact options. This deck already can't beat a Blood Moon (other than SB hydroblast most likely), needs to outrace burn + Stifle decks. So you either need to speed up your deck or slow them down. That means Brainstorm + fetches, or Chalice. Personally I'm on team Mox/Chalice because it seems super fun to drop t1 Chalice into t2 Standstill.


That's a very good idea. What would you cut to make room for it?

Very quick sketch based on your list in OP. Numbers might be off, you can cut a Thirst or island probably if you need room. Tolaria West gives you access to your mini toolbox of Karakas, Ruins, EE, plus assembling the combo. Can also grab a Wasteland or Factory for utility of course.

11 Island
4 Thespian's Stage
4 Mishra's Factory
4 Wasteland
3 Dark Depths
3 Tolaria West
1 Karakas
1 Academy Ruins

4 Mox Diamond
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Crucible of Worlds
1 Engineered Explosives

4 Standstill
4 Thirst for Knowledge

4 Force of Will
3 Misdirection
4 other 2cmc+ disruption/bounce

[LMental]

There is no basis to pigeonhole fetch lands into a monoblue deck that has no need for them and gains no benefit from them purely for the sake of playing Brainstorm. The lifeless, vulnerability to Stifle and Blood Moon is not worth the trade off just for the sake of squeezing in Brainstorm when Ponder is more than capable of filling the same role. Even with fetchlands, you're not guaranteed to draw them when you most need them, and without a fetchland, Brainstorm becomes significantly worse than Ponder.

Likewise, there is no benefit to playing Mox Diamond. You're not an aggro deck trying to dump your hand onto the board in the first two turns. You're a control deck that happens to have a resilient combo finisher.

In what way does Life from the Loam advance this deck's game plan? It doesn't.

There is totally a basis. I'm not pigeonholing; I'm exploring, and my exploration led me to the conclusion that the deck would be stronger with Brainstorm, which led to the conclusion that I was playing a tons of lands; therefore Mox made sense; therefore Chalice. Not pigeonholing.

Additionally, the idea of T1 Mox -> Standstill is pretty awesome. With FoW backup. I mean, that's just cool.

Also, Life from the Loam has a clear role in this deck - the same role Crucible has. But LftL is the better card. It digs for the combo and other lands while also playing the role of Crucible.

[Captain Hammer]

Brainstorm + fetches is the best consistency engine in the format. You are a mono-color combo deck that's nearly half lands and your only way to interact is on the stack or with things like bounce, and very limited artifact options. This deck already can't beat a Blood Moon (other than SB hydroblast most likely), needs to outrace burn + Stifle decks. So you either need to speed up your deck or slow them down. That means Brainstorm + fetches, or Chalice. Personally I'm on team Mox/Chalice because it seems super fun to drop t1 Chalice into t2 Standstill.



Very quick sketch based on your list in OP. Numbers might be off, you can cut a Thirst or island probably if you need room. Tolaria West gives you access to your mini toolbox of Karakas, Ruins, EE, plus assembling the combo. Can also grab a Wasteland or Factory for utility of course.

11 Island
4 Thespian's Stage
4 Mishra's Factory
4 Wasteland
3 Dark Depths
3 Tolaria West
1 Karakas
1 Academy Ruins

4 Mox Diamond
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Crucible of Worlds
1 Engineered Explosives

4 Standstill
4 Thirst for Knowledge

4 Force of Will
3 Misdirection
4 other 2cmc+ disruption/bounce


Sojeri Steppe and Bojuka Bog seem like they might be worth including as 1 ofs as well.

Also, Compulsive Research seems really strong with all the lands you play, especially if you have a crucible of worlds on the board. Might make more sense in the deck than TfK.

Looks very solid overall. Tolaria West + EE are both fantastic additions to the deck. Will definitely try it out and see if it out performs the non-Chalice versions of the deck.

Only other things I would change would be to up the number of ways to tutor up the combo pieces to improve the decks consistency.

Intuition was fantastic at this, it can fetch up a MisD at instant speed, can EOT tutor up a bounce to remove a permanent that is preventing you from winning, can tutor up either half of the combo, can tutor up a Crucible if your first marit lage gets killed, and it can dump useful lands into the yard for Crucible as well.

Going up to 4 Tolaria West might make sense as well.

I would consider going...
-4 Thirst for Knowledge
-2 Island
-1 other disruption/bounce
+3 Intuition
+2 Compulsive Research
+1 Tolaria West
+1 Bojuka Bog

to arrive at...

9 Island
4 Mishra's Factory
4 Wasteland
4 Tolaria West
4 Thespian's Stage
3 Dark Depths
1 Sejeri Steppe
1 Karakas
1 Academy Ruins

4 Mox Diamond
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Crucible of Worlds
1 Engineered Explosives

4 Standstill
3 Intuition
2 Compulsive Research

4 Force of Will
3 Misdirection
3 Other disruption/bounce

The longer your opponent takes before popping the standstill, the more land drops you get and thus the better for you.

[Ricardio]

What about green splash for rotate, exploration or loam?

[Captain Hammer]

I covered the green splash in the OP.



Alternatively, if you're not a fan of Standstill, a green splash would be the route to take...

10 Fetchlands
3 Tropical Island
2 Island
1 Forest
3 Thespian's Stage
3 Wasteland
3 Dark Depths

4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Crop Rotation
4 Living Wish
4 Intuition
3 Crucible of Worlds

4 Force of Will
3 Misdirection
3 Dispel/Negate
2 Jace

SB:
1 Thespian's Stage
1 Wasteland
1 Dark Depths
1 Karakas
1 Maze of Ith
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Tabernacle
1 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Xantid Swarm
1 Deathrite Shaman
1 Faerie Macabre
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Eternal Witness
1 Thing in the Ice
1 Trygon Predator
1 Courser of Kruphix
1 Gilded Drake
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Sower of Temptation


I would love to get feedback on bringing either list closer to optimal.

I'm not sure what Exploration or Loam would add to the decklist above. However, if you find a way to squeeze in Standstills and Tolaria West into the above list, Exploration could be solid as well, but it seems rather win more.

Crucible seems better than Loam in Standstill decks.