[Primer] Eldrazi Stompy

[potatodavid]

I feel like Eldrazi is favored against Czech Pile. Baleful Strix can only hold off Eldrazi so much, it was much better in Shardless BUG because they followed up a strix with a clock. Against Czech you either make it trade with a Matter Reshaper (1 for 1, and possible even with tempo upside) or you remove it with a warping wail or trample over it with Smasher. And Kolaghan's Command is too slow to beat Chalice, if they spend turn 3 getting rid of it you probably are winning on turn 4.

What else plays Strix? Aluren? that is a tougher match up but you try to race and thought-knot seer the aluren before they can play it. and it doesn't even see that much play anyways. Same strategy against food chain but probably harder match up, but again, not seeing that much play.


Eldrazi never really was that bad, its popularity just waned as people mixed it up after top was banned.

I suppose goyf and abrupt decay is not as popular as it used to be. Abrupt decay hits over half your board easily, and goyfs are almost always bigger than the majority of your creatures. Might need to resleeve some tentacle monsters

[cin]

Hi,

I just want to ask what slot on the list is replaceable for me to put in ballistas?

Some of the list I saw that warping wail slots becomes walking ballista slots, some discussion i read on the previous pages, Endless One were the slots to replace for a wallking ballista.

And if im going to use walking ballista how many would it be? some lists consists of 4 copies in the deck. some has 2.

Can you please help me and give me a guide list or maybe explain further the pros and cons of having walking ballista in it?

And also the manabase would differ when we use walking ballista in the Main Deck as compared to the Eldrazi Aggro list that has warping wail in it right?

Thanks!

[Crimhead]

Thinking f finally throwing this deck together (having been a fan since the beginning).
I have some questions about the mana base:

Has anybody tested running Field Of Ruin with 1 or 2 Basic Wastes?
What do you guys think about running Posts?
Does a singleton Karakas really help out much? I can see decks like Miracles or Enchantress running a singleton because it can replace a Plains; or a deck like Lands that can easily find it. But it seems like quite the random (and off colour) card in a deck where we have a lot of good lands competing for slots.
How necessary are Factories? I see a lot of successful lists running them.
Thanks. :)

[potatodavid]

Thinking f finally throwing this deck together (having been a fan since the beginning).
I have some questions about the mana base:

Has anybody tested running Field Of Ruin with 1 or 2 Basic Wastes?
What do you guys think about running Posts?
Does a singleton Karakas really help out much? I can see decks like Miracles or Enchantress running a singleton because it can replace a Plains; or a deck like Lands that can easily find it. But it seems like quite the random (and off colour) card in a deck where we have a lot of good lands competing for slots.
How necessary are Factories? I see a lot of successful lists running them.
Thanks. :)



1. Why when wasteland does it's job better with no drawback?
2. The Big Eldrazi Version does, the sol land package allows for quicker access to things like turn 1 chalice or thorn.
3. Some lists use Karakas, some don't. If you're running displacer it makes sense. It's also a non-spell card that deals with gris/emmy/Thalia. Your meta might force your call on this one.
4. Factories are sometimes your win, they're a great answer to things like snapcaster mage. (block and pump) They're probably the 3rd most important land in the deck.

[Crimhead]

1. Why when wasteland does it's job better with no drawback?
I think the benefits of fetching a Wastes are:

You don't lose a land.
You can protect yourself from Moon effects.
I have seen people claiming they dislike Wasteland because it sets them back. This land doesn't, and it's good vs zero-basics decks as well as troublesome utility lands.

I know it hasn't made any kind of splash yet in the competitive scene. Just wondering if anybody is testing it.

[potatodavid]

They still potentially fetch a land which is terrible. It also has a 3 land setup. It's not good... at all.

[mulder]

I've been playing Eldrazi for more than a year now. I played it in a tournament today and went 5-2 (including two byes).

R1: bye
R2: bye
R3: Loss against infect
R4: Loss against BR reanimator
R5: Win against BU control
R6: Win against UR Delver, only because his two delvers won't flip 5 turns in a row
R7: Win against turbo depths

The deck is utterly horrible. It loses to almost anything, except fair decks. I lost against Infect and reanimator. Against Infect I lost on turn three twice, and against reanimator i lost on turn one ( swamp, ritual, thoughtseize, entomb reanimate griselbrand) and turn two.
The deck also loses against show and tell, lands, UR delver, miracles, big red, decks that play Baleful Strix, and every deck that has blood moon in the sb or main... . Chalice does almost nothing anymore since most decks simply don't care about it and play around it easily, or have enough removal. Not to mention that despite that you play 26 lands, you get manascrewed more often than not.
I think that this deck is way past its prime and if you want to win a tournament, you should play anything BUT this pile. I for one will be unsleeving my Eldrazi and unless the meta changes drastically, I won't be playing them anymore.

[Hrothgar]

The deck is utterly horrible...

I can't believe I've read this post.

[Crimhead]

According to MTG top8 (http://mtgtop8.com/format?f=LE&meta=72) (paper data) Eldrazi decks are putting up better numbers than any other Legacy deck besides Grixis Delver.

[mulder]

According to MTG top8 (http://mtgtop8.com/format?f=LE&meta=72) (paper data) Eldrazi decks are putting up better numbers than any other Legacy deck besides Grixis Delver.

I stand by my point.
This deck has horrible matchups against most tier one decks: infect, show and tell, lands, UR delver (Price of Progress anyone?), miracles, big red, decks that play Baleful Strix, czech pile, every deck that has blood moon. Or am I seeing this wrong?

Chalice does almost nothing anymore because all decks are prepared for it or don't care about it. And apart from Smasher and Seer, the deck doesn't have a lot going for it. The manabase is simply horrible and more often than not, the deck scoops against one single Wasteland.

[Abantau]

I've been playing Eldrazi for more than a year now. I played it in a tournament today and went 5-2 (including two byes).

R1: bye
R2: bye
R3: Loss against infect
R4: Loss against BR reanimator
R5: Win against BU control
R6: Win against UR Delver, only because his two delvers won't flip 5 turns in a row
R7: Win against turbo depths

The deck is utterly horrible. It loses to almost anything, except fair decks. I lost against Infect and reanimator. Against Infect I lost on turn three twice, and against reanimator i lost on turn one ( swamp, ritual, thoughtseize, entomb reanimate griselbrand) and turn two.
The deck also loses against show and tell, lands, UR delver, miracles, big red, decks that play Baleful Strix, and every deck that has blood moon in the sb or main... . Chalice does almost nothing anymore since most decks simply don't care about it and play around it easily, or have enough removal. Not to mention that despite that you play 26 lands, you get manascrewed more often than not.
I think that this deck is way past its prime and if you want to win a tournament, you should play anything BUT this pile. I for one will be unsleeving my Eldrazi and unless the meta changes drastically, I won't be playing them anymore.

Maybe incorporating W or other colors would do the trick like this new brew making use of displacer and drowner of hope. Looks interesting. http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=17579&d=308919&f=LE

[Raizen884]

Chalice does something yes, a lot of decks are prepared for it, but it isn't that easy beating it with any decks that have a lot of 1 mana drop, and that is like a LOT of decks. Also UR Delver, Miracles, Czech Pile and infect they might be unfavored, but are only slightly unfavorable if much. Blood Moon decks are very few, aside from some SB techs, only Big Red which is already on the list uses it to a extend that really crushes this deck. The same way you say about the MU here I can say about 95% of legacy decks. That is something you need to be accustomed unless you are willing to always play the "best" deck always.
I've always felt Eldrazi was a very good deck, but not THE deck to beat, which is pretty ok to play with it if you really like the deck. You went 3-2 it happens, maybe next time you enter a tournament where you face a bunch of storm, delver decks and feel like the best deck in the format. If you want a deck that have few loopsided MU, then I think only RUG/Grixis Delver can serve you that, even though they have a lot of bad MU, non of them are loopsided if it is the reason why you are not wanting to play Eldrazi.

[Crimhead]

If you want a deck that have few loopsided MU, then I think only RUG/Grixis Delver can serve you that, even though they have a lot of bad MU, non of them are loopsided if it is the reason why you are not wanting to play Eldrazi.
Those decks get crushed by lands - very lopsided.
Every deck in Legacy is prey for something else. That's the format.

What this means is that any tier-1 deck can be soft in the wrong meta. If your LCG is full of Loam decks, aggro/tempo, and Moon decks, your deck might be bad there. If your meta has more Elves, Storm, and Delver (not U/R), you are probably looking well above average.

[Qernavak]

Took a break from Legacy to start getting into Modern.

As a sidebar, Modern (Eldrazi Tron / Bant Eldrazi) is very unique. I initially thought there was no point on playing Chalice in a deck that cannot deploy it on turn 1 for X=1. But turns out waiting to play X=2, even on turns >5 is correct... I still have a lot to learn.

Prior to that, I brewed A LOT, experimenting with all sorts of color combinations, 3-colors, 4-colors, 5-colors.... and it was tough, the green Eldrazi are just not good enough! In the end, by far the best results I got were from the Esper combination. I had some good (not excellent) results, lots and lots of 4-1s on mtgo leagues, and one 5-0. But the new deck-publishing system would never show them.

Anyhow, today I decided to take a break from Modern and played a league, and boom! got a 5-0:
https://i.imgur.com/DUGUCjQ.png

List is solid, but because it's not your usual Eldrazi stompy, it may take several matches to get used to its elements. Hope some of you can give it a try!

[Cave]

Prior to that, I brewed A LOT, experimenting with all sorts of color combinations, 3-colors, 4-colors, 5-colors.... and it was tough, the green Eldrazi are just not good enough!

Well, every color has one or maybe two good eldrazis...i don't think green is the issue there.

Anyway, interesting list. Might give it a try.

[BARGAHOF]

Hey all, I just started playing this deck after taking a break from legacy for some years. Prior to taking a break I used to play Merfolk, so this is a new deck for me. I went to a 34 person Competitive REL event last Sunday with the following list:

MB:
Creatures 22
4 Eldrazi Mimic
3 Matter Reshaper
4 Endless One
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
1 Endbringer
2 Walking Ballista

Artifacts 10
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Thorn of Amethyst
2 Umezawa's Jitte

Spells 3
2 Dismember
1 Warping Wail

Lands 25
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Wasteland
3 Eye of Ugin
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Karakas

SB:
4 Leyline of the Void
3 Ratchet Bomb
2 Sorcerous Spyglass
2 Warping Wail
1 Dismember
1 All is Dust
1 Winter Orb
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger

It was a 6 round event with a cut to top 8

Round 1: Infect 1-2 Loss
First round of the day, first time playing the deck in a real event, it started out good. I won game one with a chalice on 1 turn 1 followed by TKS -> Smasher and a well timed warping wail on his blighted agent. Game 2 he had the krosan grip and aggressive start which I stymied a little, but ended up just getting flooded while he beat me to death with a bunch of dudes. Game 3 was sooo close. I had Chalice on 1 for most of the game and saw a million removal spells for every creature he played, plus lots of wastelands for his inkmoths and other lands. my only clock was a 4/4 Endless One and a 2/2 Endless one. With him at 6 life, me at 7 poison, I topdecked yet another land after drawing them for turns, and made him chump with his noble hierarch to get one more draw. All he had was two lands and blighted agent. He ripped brainstorm into blossoming defense and that was all she wrote. Really close game, had I been on the play game 3 I think I win that match.

Round 2: ANT 2-0 Win
This was against one of my friends who came with me to the event, so he and I both knew this was basically unwinnable for him. I mulled to 5 both games to keep turn 1 chalice hands and this wasn't even fun for anyone involved. Game 1 I had chalice on 0, chalice on 1, and a thorn out on turn 2, followed by a turn 3 TKS lol.

Round 3: Jeskai Stoneblade 2-0 Win
I didn't take many notes from this match, but from what I recall game 1 I had chalice on 1 --> TKS --> Smasher and that was the game. Game 2 he had to mulligain to oblivion (very obviously trying to find blood moon) and I chaliced on 1 followed by a little pressure and 3 wastelands to keep him from ever reaching 3 mana.

Round 4: Czech Pile, 4-c Leovold, whatever this deck is called 2-0 Win
One of the strangest matches of magic I've ever played in my life. Both games, he did a million things - casting cantrips, discard spells, flashing stuff back with snapcaster, yada yada. And both games I just beat him to death with Reality Smasher(s). Like, he always had a full grip and at some point it occurred to me that he apparently just had no way to deal with smasher.

Round 5: Czech Pile, 4c Leovold, whatever 0-2 Loss
So I beat myself for most of this match. I was starving and tired and not thinking straight, and my inexperience with the deck finally started to show through despite a really good day so far. Game 1 I kept a hand with a bunch of cities and wastelands and proceeded to sequence my lands terribly, use wastelands when I shouldn't have and not use them when I should have, and long story short I just ended up with basically no mana to work with. Game 2 my opponent had a great hand and my hand was mediocre, and his answers just happened to line up perfectly with what I had. Frustrating loss.

Round 6: Jeskai Stoneblade 0-2 Loss
So this match was admittedly pretty tilting. As I sat down across from my opponent, he acknowledged that he knew what I was on and went on and on about how this was an auto loss for him, how there was no way he could win this matchup, and congratulating me for my win. I told him that he shouldn't speak so soon and that he was putting the jinx on me, but he insisted. So at this point, I assume it's storm, so I mulligan a fine 7 in order to find a t1 chalice 6 card hand with far less pressure. This got me killed game 1 as turn 3 batterskull on the play beat me to death while I hardcore flooded out. Game 2 I had double t1 mimic into turn 2 Jitte, which played right in to the engineered explosives on 2 he played that turn. after blowing up the world, he proceeded to blood moon and kill me with snaps and true-names. He kept apologizing profusely for having talked so much about losing beforehand, he clearly had not played the matchup enough and didn't realize it wasn't nearly as bad as he thought.

Anyway, I know I'm new to the deck so much of this is probably obvious to a lot of you, but here were my lessons from the day:
1. Endbringer is way better than I gave it credit for, I definitely want a second one (at least) somewhere in the 75. Card just does so many good things, not the least of which is clearing through baleful strix against Pile.
2. The deck really wants Mishra's factory. I ended up playing without them because A.) I couldn't find any in time for the event and B.) I had no idea what lands to take out for them. But every time I flooded I found myself wishing that any of those lands could attack. Suggestions on what lands to swap for factories are welcome!
3. Ulamog is 100% unplayable in this version of the deck. I thought that would be the case going in, but now I know for sure.
4. I found myself siding in All is Dust a lot. I think I want another one somewhere in the 75.
5. Warping Wail is insane when it's good, and really mediocre when it's not. I gotta work out how many I want main/side/total
6. I'm intrigued by the idea of running some amount of Oblivion Sower/Grim Monolith to play around Blood Moon. Has anyone had any experience playing with those?
7. While having the Thorns in the main threw some people off, it never felt devastating except in matches where I was already heavily favored (i.e. storm) and I sided them out quite a bit over the course of the day. They're going back to the sideboard, and I may cut them entirely to play around with some of the other options. We'll see.

Anyway, let me know your thoughts on the list and any advice is appreciated!

[LewisCBR]

Hey all, I just started playing this deck after taking a break from legacy for some years. Prior to taking a break I used to play Merfolk, so this is a new deck for me. I went to a 34 person Competitive REL event last Sunday with the following list...

Hey, nice report and good job, even if you fizzled there in the later rounds, its nice that you recognized some missteps in your play and where you can tighten it up. Blade decks are pretty hard, ive found, so your opponent's comments in your round 6 confuses me, its certainly not a bye for Eldrazi. Surprisingly, a Batterskull can be unbeatable for Eldrazi unless you get multiple Smashers or an Endbringer, which is easiser said then done as sometimes SFM decks play Wastelands, Back to Basics, or Blood Moon. SFM is very good vs Eldrazi, sometimes the matchups come down to who gets a Jitte first, and they are much more likely to find one. Equipment in this format is amazing, when will people finally fully accept this?

I dont think Thorns needs to be in the maindeck. Most lists are playing 3-4 in the side, which opens up room for more spells, or faster starts with Spirit Guide. Personally, I think not playing SSG is a mistake. Powering out a T1 Chalice on the play can be that important, or getting a TKS through a Daze equally important. Hell, even a T1 Reshaper can be very difficult for a lot of decks and can easily do 6-9 damage before they finally kill it and draw you something. So, if you move Thorns to the side you can get rid of things like the extra Dismember, Ulamog, and Orb.

1. Endbringer is way better than I gave it credit for, I definitely want a second one (at least) somewhere in the 75. Card just does so many good things, not the least of which is clearing through baleful strix against Pile.

I agree with this. Untapping with an Endbringer is usually game over. If your opponent has exhausted their removal on Reshapers, TKS, and Smasher, than Endbringer closes the game fast. Most lists play 2 main that you side out vs decks like Delver, where he is unlikely to ever be cast through Wastelands, or will be too late to make a big impact.

2. The deck really wants Mishra's factory. I ended up playing without them because A.) I couldn't find any in time for the event and B.) I had no idea what lands to take out for them. But every time I flooded I found myself wishing that any of those lands could attack. Suggestions on what lands to swap for factories are welcome!

I also agree with this, too, and right now i'm playing 2, but i wish i could fit in a 3rd. Space for utility lands is at a premium, though. I'm doing 1 Karakas, 1 Urborg, 4 Caverns, 2 Factories, and 3 Wastelands... and then 14 sol lands. Karakas (which would probably be the cut) has saved my ass so many times, that i'm having a hard time cutting it.

3. Ulamog is 100% unplayable in this version of the deck. I thought that would be the case going in, but now I know for sure.

Again, yes. This deck is an aggro deck that can be efficiently run on 2 or 3 lands, if they are sol lands. Which means, you want the rest of your lands to do powerful things like attack (Factory), kill their lands (Wasteland), or make more threats (Cavern). Its hard enough for this deck to get the mana to activate Eye, let alone cast an Ulamog. Definitely cut Ulamog if you stick with colorless aggro. The slightly bigger Eldrazi Post version of the deck can get more mana more easily, but then they dont run cards like Cavern, which seems insane to me in a Force of Will format.

4. I found myself siding in All is Dust a lot. I think I want another one somewhere in the 75.

I'm playing 1 right now in the side and i struggle with adding another. What matchups do you like it in? Grixis and BUG Delver make it too hard to get to 7 mana, and then even if you do its easily counterable. Pile doesnt have enough to kill with a sweeper and the same for Miracles. Its obviously shit vs combo, too. When is All is Dust good? Even though i side out Endbringers vs Delver, i'll admit i reluctantly add in All is Dust. If you happen to be in a bad spot and are not Wastelanded too much, it can save you, but i'm not sure i want my hand gunked up with too many.

5. Warping Wail is insane when it's good, and really mediocre when it's not. I gotta work out how many I want main/side/total

Im also on the fence of cutting this card. It feels too reactive for such a proactive aggro deck, but it is also so flexible. I mostly play it to kill Delvers and DRS, while also being ramp in a pinch. I dont think i've countered something like a Show and Tell or Infernal Tutor with this card in a long long time.

6. I'm intrigued by the idea of running some amount of Oblivion Sower/Grim Monolith to play around Blood Moon. Has anyone had any experience playing with those?

I havent played the Monolith version, but i've been jamming a few Sowers in the side recently and i really like the card. Versus decks like Pile or Miracles, its another big threat they have to deal with that also ramps you to Eye mana, which those decks cannot beat an active Eye. I also like Sower in the mirror where you need a creature with a big butt that can block or attack through Smashers. As you pointed out, Sower is good vs Blood Moon decks. Ive somehow beaten Mono Red Prison the last few times ive played it solely because i can side out Reshapers and Endbringers to bring in Sowers, and other junk. Now, the only cards i have that need colorless mana are TKS and Smasher (both of which are un-cuttable in any matchup), so if they become uncastable you have Mimics, Endless Ones, Sowers, Ballista, and Spirit Guides to beat face through a Blood Moon.

7. While having the Thorns in the main threw some people off, it never felt devastating except in matches where I was already heavily favored (i.e. storm) and I sided them out quite a bit over the course of the day. They're going back to the sideboard, and I may cut them entirely to play around with some of the other options. We'll see.

Agreed, see above. However, i wouldnt cut them entirely. It obviously makes Storm practically un-losable, but also is very good vs Miracles and Pile, which are popular online, but maybe not in your meta.

I think all in all you identified a lot about the deck for being new to it, so kudos on that. I wholeheartedly believe that Colorless Aggro Eldrazi is a top tier deck. It has all the tools to beat anything and does some truly busted stuff; TKS and Smasher are ridiculous magic cards. The deck simply isnt as consistent as blue decks and can have some pretty bad opening hands, but thats what you have to live with, because sometimes you draw hand after hand that feel unbeatable, and often are!

EDIT: Here is my list for reference: https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/915894#online I got 9th place with it in the Legacy Challenge online this past week, weep womp, but then also have had some 5-0's in online leagues with it.
As an experiment, Ive cut the Pithing Needle/Spyglass slot in the side to see if i would miss it, and i really havent... too much. To me, Spyglass seems perfect for the Eldrazi Post version that needs protection from Wastelands or cards that will hinder its longer game plan. Colorless Aggro, in contrast, doesnt want a long game, so hopefully a card like Thought-Knot Seer should be good enough to buy you the time you need to get there. At least, thats my theory.

[BARGAHOF]

4. I found myself siding in All is Dust a lot. I think I want another one somewhere in the 75.

I'm playing 1 right now in the side and i struggle with adding another. What matchups do you like it in?

So, the two big ones were UWR Blade and Pile. Pile in particular is such a grindy deck that slowly clutters the board with deathrites, strix, Jaces, etc. that slamming and resolving a late-game, top-decked AiD just seems like it's game over for them. UWR it mostly felt like a clean out to Blood Moon post-board that also deals with TNN. Admittedly, I played both of those decks twice at the event so maybe that's why it felt like I wanted to side it in a lot, but it did seem like it would be good in both of those matches.

Totally agree about your notes on Batterskull being unbeatable sometimes. In the match I 0-2'd, it came down and I suddenly found myself counting my outs and there weren't a lot of them. I'll definitely be adopting something very similar to your list and giving it a spin. It'll be a while as Legacy events here in the south tend to be few and far in between, but as soon as I get a chance to play again I will post a report.

[LewisCBR]

So, the two big ones were UWR Blade and Pile. Pile in particular is such a grindy deck that slowly clutters the board with deathrites, strix, Jaces, etc. that slamming and resolving a late-game, top-decked AiD just seems like it's game over for them. UWR it mostly felt like a clean out to Blood Moon post-board that also deals with TNN. Admittedly, I played both of those decks twice at the event so maybe that's why it felt like I wanted to side it in a lot, but it did seem like it would be good in both of those matches.

Totally agree about your notes on Batterskull being unbeatable sometimes. In the match I 0-2'd, it came down and I suddenly found myself counting my outs and there weren't a lot of them. I'll definitely be adopting something very similar to your list and giving it a spin. It'll be a while as Legacy events here in the south tend to be few and far in between, but as soon as I get a chance to play again I will post a report.

I suppose that is true versus Pile, All is Dust can pull you back in from an early Jace or a gunked up board. Their best draws will be removal, removal, removal, into Jace. But, if they miss their Jace and start durdling around, you can get Eye active and they have a hard time beating that. Its real nice to know you dont have to worry about land destruction from that deck.

I feel like the best way to beat Blade, like most decks, is to tempo them out with early pressure. If you can lock out Swords with a Chalice, drop a few threats, then Dismember or Ratchet Bomb their Batterskull (Bomb on zero to kill the Germ... but also your Chalice, unfortunately) you usually win before they can get BSkull back online. If it does get to be a long game, Endbringer can really do work.

Glad you had a good experience with the deck, though, and i look forward to your next report!

[Gwathnar]

First time posting on this site - I ported my deck over from Modern because I'm tired of the format and Legacy allows me to do broken things.

Anyone try running less lands? I found myself getting flooded all the time earlier with the deck. I've cut 2 Cavern of Souls but haven't tested it yet.


Creatures (29)
2 Walking Ballista
4 Endless One
4 Eldrazi Mimic
4 Matter Reshaper
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
3 Endbringer
Spells (8)
4 Chalice of the Void
1 Umezawa's Jitte
3 Dismember
Lands (23)
1 Karakas
2 Cavern of Souls
2 Mishra's Factory
3 Eye of Ugin
3 Wasteland
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Eldrazi Temple
Sideboard (15)
1 Karakas
2 Sorcerous Spyglass
2 Warping Wail
4 Thorn of Amethyst
4 Leyline of the Void
2 All Is Dust

[LewisCBR]

Anyone try running less lands?

I think 25 is the accepted number of lands. This article breaks down land drop math and how a 25 land deck is more likely to hit their land drops, which is pretty crucial for this deck. The creatures/spells in this deck are so good, that its more important to hit your lands and have a decent curve. I havent tried being greedy with the manabase, because its amazing how often you still get choked on lands, eveb with 25 and some number of SSG's.

https://www.channelfireball.com/articles/how-many-lands-do-you-need-to-consistently-hit-your-land-drops/

[Gwathnar]

I think 25 is the accepted number of lands. This article breaks down land drop math and how a 25 land deck is more likely to hit their land drops, which is pretty crucial for this deck. The creatures/spells in this deck are so good, that its more important to hit your lands and have a decent curve. I havent tried being greedy with the manabase, because its amazing how often you still get choked on lands, eveb with 25 and some number of SSG's.

https://www.channelfireball.com/articles/how-many-lands-do-you-need-to-consistently-hit-your-land-drops/

Thanks for the article, I will give it a read.

[Darkness]

Anyone have a basic MU analysis of the current meta thinking about switching back, haven't played the deck in over 1 year, was very active with Noloam for those who remember.

[Gwathnar]

First time posting on this site - I ported my deck over from Modern because I'm tired of the format and Legacy allows me to do broken things.

Anyone try running less lands? I found myself getting flooded all the time earlier with the deck. I've cut 2 Cavern of Souls but haven't tested it yet.


Creatures (29)
2 Walking Ballista
4 Endless One
4 Eldrazi Mimic
4 Matter Reshaper
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
3 Endbringer
Spells (8)
4 Chalice of the Void
1 Umezawa's Jitte
3 Dismember
Lands (23)
1 Karakas
2 Cavern of Souls
2 Mishra's Factory
3 Eye of Ugin
3 Wasteland
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Eldrazi Temple
Sideboard (15)
1 Karakas
2 Sorcerous Spyglass
2 Warping Wail
4 Thorn of Amethyst
4 Leyline of the Void
2 All Is Dust

Quoting myself here but I didn't notice any issues on only 23 land when playing the deck this week.

[LewisCBR]

Quoting myself here but I didn't notice any issues on only 23 land when playing the deck this week.

Well, math says you'll eventually start missing your 3rd land drop far more than i am comfortable with in a deck that wants to hit the first 3 as often as possible. Even not counting Wasetlands, i'm on the opposite side and am astounded by how often i get land choked in a deck with 25 lands and 3 SSG's. Your experiences seem to be the opposite, somehow.

Considering we run a Legendary Land and goofy lands like City of Traitors, 25 isn't the real count, anyways, but its hard to factor that stuff in. The fact that the flex lands are supposed to provide extra utility (Factories and Wastelands) is supposed to help safeguard against flooding.

[contra]

Anyone have a basic MU analysis of the current meta thinking about switching back, haven't played the deck in over 1 year, was very active with Noloam for those who remember.

Welcome back to the thread Darkness! I noticed you dropped off when Top got banned and Eldrazi saw less play. Your SB guide is the closest thing I've seen to a MU analysis.

I'm playing a pretty stock list with a few exceptions. For meta purposes I play 2 Karakas main and 1 SB for the Marit Lages, Thalias, and Leovolds. Anything less than 4 wastelands seems wrong to me since it tends to just win you the game when you're opponent is struggling with mana. It's also a way of dealing with dark depths which is every other deck these days (also why I'm playing the newly printed spyglass)

Walking Ballista is also a new addition since you left and many are playing it as a warping wail replacement; so much so I've heard that it's strictly better than wail. I still really like wail since it's better than ballista when you're
1)Shooting down a deathrite with only two mana
2)Not telegraphing your ability to kill their creature
3)Countering natural order, gsz, infernal tutor, terminus (notice how all of these are the best spells against eldrazi)
4) and while it doesn't come up too often, ramping into smasher mana.

Moving to my sideboard I personally never liked siding thorns vs. 4/C or Grixis, but a single 3sphere feel really nice in those matchups. It also comes in vs elves. Null Rod is a new addition for me, but it's great in so many matchups including storm, DnT, Steel Stompy, stoneblade, 12post/MUD and other jank.

I'd suggest reading lewisCBRs threads since he probably jams more games than anyone else here.

25 LANDS
4 Ancient Tomb
3 City of Traitors
4 Eldrazi Temple
3 Eye of Ugin
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Wasteland
2 Karakas
1 Mishra's Factory

26 CREATURES
4 Eldrazi Mimic
4 Endless One
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
2 Endbringer
4 Matter Reshaper
2 Simian Spirit Guide
2 Walking Ballista

3 INSTANTS and SORC.
2 Dismember
1 Warping Wail

9 OTHER SPELLS
4 Chalice of the Void
2 Umezawa's Jitte

Sideboard
2 Ratchet Bomb
2 Thorn of Amethyst
2 Sorcerous Spyglass
1 Trinisphere
4 Leyline of the Void
1 Null Rod
2 Warping Wail
1 Karakas

[Darkness]

I'm planning on trading BR Reanimator to the friend who I sold Eldrazi too. I'm currently on the list in my Signature and it seems more refined than when noloam and I were working on evolving the deck. I have tested a bit and it seems strong which is surprising considering miracles is gone, I love the edition to Walking Ballista so far and I'm positive 3 City's is correct over the two I played last year. I quit mainly due to the presence of Shardless BUG which was the decks second worst match up at the time. Since Shardless got pushed out by Czech Pile I think the deck has much better MU even with Miracles being hit with the Axe.I will get the deck on Paper at SCG Worcester.

Finally, expect an update to the sideboarding guide with my 75 within a month or so. If anyone wants in on this project I would love to collaborate together. PM me for more info.

[ChrisDissent]

Finally, expect an update to the sideboarding guide with my 75 within a month or so. If anyone wants in on this project I would love to collaborate together. PM me for more info.

Really looking for it. NIce idea. Thanks in advance for proposing this future sideboard guide.

[Gwathnar]

Well, math says you'll eventually start missing your 3rd land drop far more than i am comfortable with in a deck that wants to hit the first 3 as often as possible. Even not counting Wasetlands, i'm on the opposite side and am astounded by how often i get land choked in a deck with 25 lands and 3 SSG's. Your experiences seem to be the opposite, somehow.

Considering we run a Legendary Land and goofy lands like City of Traitors, 25 isn't the real count, anyways, but its hard to factor that stuff in. The fact that the flex lands are supposed to provide extra utility (Factories and Wastelands) is supposed to help safeguard against flooding.

I'm certainly not saying it is the way to go and I definitely need to get more testing in. I've only played around a half dozen games.

[razvan]

3. Ulamog is 100% unplayable in this version of the deck. I thought that would be the case going in, but now I know for sure.
4. I found myself siding in All is Dust a lot. I think I want another one somewhere in the 75.
6. I'm intrigued by the idea of running some amount of Oblivion Sower/Grim Monolith to play around Blood Moon. Has anyone had any experience playing with those?
Step into my office.

I play 3 Monolith, 4 Oblivion Sowers and 1 Ulamog (basically shaved the endless ones and equipment), and i find it amazing. Sometimes you will get stuck with a bunch of big things in your hand, but that's the price of doing business. You are so much better in the long game, you have inevitability against almost anything (almost anything). You still have the mimics, reshapers, tks and smashers to do the eldrazi thing, but sometimes you just go bigger if it doesn't get the job done.

I might agree with you that Ulamog is unplayable without Grim Monoliths and Oblivion Sowers. With them, it becomes crucial and will win you games.

I would shave on ratchet bombs, and maybe the winter orb (it's cute but meh), to go up to 3 All is Dust. The card really is unbelievable.

[Cave]

Qernavak's list (http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=18478&d=314877&f=LE) placed top8 out of 75.
I like everything except the mono-warping wail and the fact he swapped a Jitte for a SoLaS.

[darkgh0st]

After being off Eldrazi Stompy for so long, I took my modified Barook's list to GP Toronto's side events.



White Eldrazi
darkghost


Lands (24)
Creatures (23)
Spells (13)
Sideboard



4x Ancient Tomb
4x Cavern of Souls
2x City of Traitors
4x Eldrazi Temple
3x Eye of Ugin
3x Mishra's Factory
2x Karakas
2x Unclaimed Territory (from Brushlands)



4x Eldrazi Mimic
4x Endless One
3x Matter Reshaper
4x Eldrazi Displacer
4x Thought-Knot Seer
4x Reality Smasher




4x Chalice of the Void
3x Lotus Petal
2x Umezawa's Jitte
2x Dismember
2x Warping Wail




3x All is Dust
2x Sorcerous Spyglass
3x Thorn of Amethyst
2x World Breaker
1x Warping Wail
4x Leyline of the Void



1st Run:
2-1 Sneak and Show
0-2 DnT (mull to 5 game 2 and die)
2-1 Sneak and Show

2nd Run:
2-1 DnT (Displacer being MVP 3rd game)
2-1 Sneak and Show (Displacer was a king over Emrakul)
2-1 BU Reanimator (He T1 me G2 when I didn't mull for Leyline)

3rd Run:
1-2 Mono Black Pox (G2 was quad Sinkholes dead, G3 was double Dark Ritual into Hymn + Lili death)
2-0 Moon Stompy (G1 he had a 1st turn Magus of the Moon and I had the Dismember for it. Didn't see Bridges both games.)
1-2 Burn

4th Run:
2-0 Slivers
2-0 Infect
2-1 Grixis Delver

I was impressed with the 9-3 total and still very impressed with Displacers.

[Darkness]

Quick update to my testing. The deck feels strong the grixis match up is still 50/50 like it was prior to my departure from the deck a year ago. Having two Karakas and 3 city’s feels very good. I’ve got about 34 matches in and at a 67% win loss. Current list in my signature. Going to start working on a sideboard guise after 100 matches. If anyone is interested in working on this task private message me.

[Manroe]

Anyone still playing the Eldrazi and Taxes list? What would an updated list look like?

Sent from my ONEPLUS A5000 using Tapatalk

[Darkness]

Anyone still playing the Eldrazi and Taxes list? What would an updated list look like?

Sent from my ONEPLUS A5000 using Tapatalk

Here is the thread you are looking for

http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?30943-Thalia-Stompy

[Manroe]

Here is the thread you are looking for

http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?30943-Thalia-StompyThanks. Sorry for the wrong thread post!

Sent from my ONEPLUS A5000 using Tapatalk

[Darkness]

Who's going to SCG Worcester? I'm trying to organize an Eldrazi player meet up if anyone is interested.

[Gwathnar]

Face 2 Face Games hosted the St. John's Classic here in St. John's, Newfoundland yesterday. They had a legacy side event and we had a good turn out from the locals, we had 3 pods of 8 fire, all single elimination. I managed to take 2nd place in the second pod.

My list:

Main Deck (60)
Creatures (28)
2 Walking Ballista
4 Endless One
4 Eldrazi Mimic
4 Matter Reshaper
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
2 Endbringer

Spells (7)
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Dismember

Lands (25)
1 Karakas
2 Cavern of Souls
2 City of Traitors
2 Crystal Vein
2 Mishra's Factory
2 Wastes
3 Eye of Ugin
3 Wasteland
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Eldrazi Temple

Sideboard (15)
2 Tormod's Crypt
1 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Sorcerous Spyglass
2 Warping Wail
4 Thorn of Amethyst
2 Leyline of the Void
2 All Is Dust

I played the first pod but my first match up was against Pox, what a miserable time that was. Pox did pox things and I was killed by Mishra's Factory.

2nd pod I faired much better.

Match 1 vs Junk Depths.

I had Chalice on 1 game 1 and laid on the pressure quick with Eldrazi beats.
Game 2 I mulled to 6, believe I had 1 land scry was a land on top. Managed to win this one too as my opponent couldn't find any of his pieces. I also managed to get a couple 12/12 Endless Ones on the board which pretty much gave me the game.

Match 2 vs Czech Pile

My god what a grindy 3 games these were. Chalice lock him out game 1 securing me the win. I didn't see a single copy of it in game 2. Game 3 it stuck around long enough to pull me ahead. These games were pretty intense imo and I just made it through.

Match 3 (final) vs Merfolk

I sadly got clobbered but it wasn't for lack of trying. FoW stopped me from landing bigger threats and I didn't once see the copies of All is Dust I sided in to help deal with True Name Nemisis (my god I hate that card lol).



All in all I'm happy with how I did. Still got somethings to learn with the deck and my local meta isn't packing much hate for Eldrazi - I'm sure that's going to change now.

[Troll_ov_Grimness]

I want to hear more about the rainbow eldrazi decks

the mana base would look something like this,

3 lotus petal

3 eye of ugin

4 ancient tomb

4 eldrazi temple

1 karakas

1 urborg, tomb of yawgmoth

2 city of traitors

4 cavern of souls

4 unclaimed territory

2 corrupted crossroads

what creatures should it play?

some of the choices,

eldrazi obligator, eldrazi sky spawner, drowner of hope, bearer of silence, eldrazi displacer

what is your reasoning?

[Darkness]

I want to hear more about the rainbow eldrazi decks

the mana base would look something like this,

3 lotus petal

3 eye of ugin

4 ancient tomb

4 eldrazi temple

1 karakas

1 urborg, tomb of yawgmoth

2 city of traitors

4 cavern of souls

4 unclaimed territory

2 corrupted crossroads

what creatures should it play?

some of the choices,

eldrazi obligator, eldrazi sky spawner, drowner of hope, bearer of silence, eldrazi displacer

what is your reasoning?

I think that those decks are fine but only against a field with no wastelands, ie a meta call deck. You are already bad against wasteland as is, adding the colors just amplifies that. Also the colors don't give you cards to help you against your bad match ups. You are good against fair mid range decks, the color cards really only help against them. IMO stick with colorless.

Sidenote I will be posting a new link in my signature for my current testing shortly. I am hovering around a 67% win ratio after about 50 matches. Deck is awesome! Why did I ever leave?

[Darkness]

My signature has my current project live with a link to the decks I’ve played against and my W/L record. Will be headed out to SCG Worcester tomorrow and playing in the Main event. If I don't make day 2 I'm gonna play modern, if I do expect a detailed report of the two days.


Update:
3-3 drop deck felt awesome had bad luck on my opponents end and my end. Lots of mulligans overall very happy with deck

[TinkerRobot]

I played Eldrazi to a 6-3 record at SCG Worcester (cut off for day 2 was 7-2).

4 Ancient Tomb
2 City of Traitors
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Eye of Ugin
3 Cavern of Souls
3 Wasteland
3 Mishra's Factory
1 Karakas
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
3 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Eldrazi Mimic
4 Matter Reshaper
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
2 Endbringer
4 Endless One
2 Walking Ballista
4 Chalice of the Void
2 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Dismember
--
1 Karakas
3 Thorn of Amethyst
2 Sorcerous Spyglass
1 Ratchet Bomb
2 Warping Wail
4 Leyline of the Void
2 All is Dust

Round 1: James on Mono Red Moon (Win 2-1)
My opponent was on an unusual list running the full 12 Moons (Blood Moon, Magus of the Moon, and Blood Sun) with Sneak Attack and Through the Breach as his win cons. I've played against similar decks and knew to keep hands with Spirit Guides, Mimics, Ballistas, and Jittes because those were the cards I could cast through a Moon effect. An aggressive Eye of Ugin/ Mimic draw get me there in game 1, and a well timed Sorcerous Spyglass on Sneak Attack wins me the match.

Round 2: Anthony on Infect (Win 2-1)
Game one I'm on the play and I have a hand with Thought-Knot, Ballista, 2 Ancient Tomb, 2 Wasteland, and Endbringer. Obviously I keep it blind, but I tanked on whether or not to jam a 1/1 Walking Ballista against an unknown opponent. My sketchy play panned out as my opponent couldn't cast any of his creatures for the first four or five turns because they would all die to Ballista. Post-board we have so many tools for Infect, it seems like a very favorable match up.

Round 3: Mike on B/R Reanimator (Win 2-1)
Pretty quick games. I lose game one because I keep an aggro hand without Chalice. Game two I have both Leyline and Chalice of the Void X=1 on turn one. game three I have a Leyline which he eventually casts Wear/Tear on, but I am able to play an Endbringer and neutralize his threat while pinging him for one damage a turn.

Round 4: Edgar on Czech Pile (Loss 0-2)
The most lopsided games against my favor all weekend. Game one I cast a Thought-Knot into his Leovold, which is promptly Fatal Pushed, a fun interaction that nets him 2 cards, including a Baleful Strix. Game two I Thought-Knot him and see Abrupt Decay, Lightning Bolt, Fatal Push, Snapcaster Mage, and Toxic Deluge. Can't beat that.

Round 5: Thomas on Punishing Jund (Win 2-0)
From the first Eldrazi Mimic I cast, my opponent visibly lacks confidence, doesn't seem to think he can beat Eldazi and pretty much hands me the game. Game two I bring in some Leylines of the Void (maybe two copies - I forget, but not all four) and hit one in my opening 7. Now that he's off Tarmogoyf, Deathrite, and Punishing Fire, I force him to overextend into an All is Dust.

Round 6: Dan on Sneak & Show (Win 2-1)
Didn't take many notes for these games. S&S feels like a slightly disfavorable match up.

Game three I mull to five cards and keep City of Traitors, Wasteland, Thorn of Amethyst, Endless One, and Endbringer on the play. I play City into Thorn on turn one. He plays a Volc and passes. Turn two I draw a Simian Spirit Guide and decide I need to get pressure on the board. I cast a 3/3 Endless One off City and SSG and Wasteland my opponent. However I missed my City of Traitors trigger and pass the turn. My opponent doesn't notice it either. For two turn cycles, I draw an uncastable spell, attack for 3 and pass. Then we realize I missed my City of Traitors trigger and a Judge gets called over to the table. The floor Judge clearly doesn't know what to do, and calls the Head Judge. I get pulled aside from the table and basically interrogated (he suspects I'm cheating) to the point where he asks me how long I've been playing Eldrazi, what my game plan for the Sneak and Show match up was etc. Given that I hadn't even used the City of Traitors for mana since it was supposed to have been sacrificed, he ends up giving me a missed trigger warning and we continue playing. I ended up winning that game without playing another card, just by attacking for 3 every turn with a Thorn of Amethyst in play. Weird.

Round 7: Justin on Aggro Loam (Loss 1-2)
I play a Chalice X=1 game one and quickly realize it does nothing. His Knights of the Reliquary are larger than my Eldrazi and he has time to tutor up Maze of Ith. We get into a topdeck war in which he gets Liliana of the Veil and Scavenging Ooze. I lose. Game two I have the nut Eye/Mimic aggro draw and game three he outgrinds me again.

Round 8: John on Sneak & Show (Loss 1-2)
All three games were pretty much uninteractive races to zero and he wins the die roll and has the faster deck.

Round 9: Ameth on B/R Reanimator (Win 2-0)
I cast an early Reality Smasher. My opponent Gets a Griselbrand with Animate Dead, draws 7 and passes. I topdeck another Smasher and attack with both. He blocks and I Dismember Griselbrand. We do combat math and he tells me he gains 7 life. I'm like "wait, what?" I call a Judge over to the table and explain that he should be gaining one life off his 1/2 (dismember+animate dead) Griselbrand and I trample over for 8. Of course the Judge agrees with me, and the Griselbrand dies.
Game two He gets a Tidespout Tyrant and I dismember it. Then he Animates it again and I dismember it again. Then I kill him with some 4/4's.

Anyway, the list was pretty good. I probably want a fourth Wasteland though. Also a huge Congrats to my friends from my LGS Dylan Hand and Noah Walker on their respective Top8s. They're certainly better players than I am. Until next time, Legacy is sweet.

[Qernavak]

I want to hear more about the rainbow eldrazi decks

the mana base would look something like this,

3 lotus petal

3 eye of ugin

4 ancient tomb

4 eldrazi temple

1 karakas

1 urborg, tomb of yawgmoth

2 city of traitors

4 cavern of souls

4 unclaimed territory

2 corrupted crossroads

what creatures should it play?

some of the choices,

eldrazi obligator, eldrazi sky spawner, drowner of hope, bearer of silence, eldrazi displacer

what is your reasoning?

This is the current version I'm playing:

https://i.imgur.com/QBYcQ4K.jpg

The mana base is almost identical to what you show, but +1 Wastes -1 Corrupted Crossroads


Why Wastes?
Your most power cards, in order are: Chalice, TKS, Reality Smasher. You want to ensure having answers to Blood Moon effects in the main board to cast the latter two. Also, having Wastes will let you get a land from Ghost Quarter, Path to Exile and Veteran Explorer. The consistency gain by replacing said Wastes with Crossroads is definitely smaller than the benefits of having a Wastes.



Deck Choices
The rest of the creatures each fulfill different roles over a curve. You also gain evasion with Skyspawner and Bearer; Pseudo evasion/removal with Displacer and Drowner.

I noticed that many seem the 4x Ballista as too many; but in my experience, this card is very versatile in dealing with troublesome matchups. The most relevant function is eliminating opposing Baleful Strix.

The 1x mb 1x sb Karakas is in response to the growing presence of Turbo Depths and RB Reanimator.

The +1 Sword of (Fire and Ice OR Light and Shadow) is a tech borrowed from Steel Stompy. According to Amadeus (the most successful pilot of that deck) the Sword is more powerful in the current meta full of TNN and Strix. I have tried both swords and I somewhat agree that is very castable and usable, and that it helps in some games that would otherwise be unwinnable. On the other hand it's still not clear whether the tempo loss has cost me other games. But so far, it seems like the substitution is very viable.



Isn't the colorless version better?
The colorless version is faster and more consistently deployed. The colorful version gives you more flexibility and consistency across multiple archetypes. Or in other words, for example many of your 65% matchups become 62% but your 45% matchups become 53%. Most notable examples where you GAIN win%: Show and Tell, Reanimator, Turbo Depths, Grixis Delver, D&T, Elves. Most notable examples of REDUCTION in win%: BUG control/delver, Moon Stompy, Miracles, Eldrazi Post, Storm, Burn




How does it fair vs. Wasteland?
I believe that both the colorless and the colorful versions are affected in a similar proportion by Wasteland. The color requirement is almost always met even under pressure from Wastelands, the problem is when opponents deploy early wastelands with pressure and we fail to draw sufficient Sol lands, which would be the same issue with the colorless version.



Anyhow, just my input, I hope it helps.

[contra]

I've also found the list to be fun and relatively competitive. Qernavak's analysis is pretty spot on, but I'd put more emphasis on consistency. Consistency translates into wins as any cantrip loving magic person will tell you. Adding color just makes it less consistent, but infinitely more fun and versatile. Here's my list:

25 Lands
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Unclaimed Territory
4 Cavern of Souls
3 Eye of Ugin
3 City of Traitors
2 Corrupted Crossroads
1 Karakas

24 Creatures
4 Thought-knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
4 Bearer of Silence
3 Eldrazi Displaced
3 Eldrazi Skyspawn
2 Eldrazi Obligator
2 Drowner of Hope
2 Walking Ballista

11 Spells
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Mox Diamond
2 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Warping Wail
1 Sword of Fire and Ice

[TLK]

I played the colored list at a local event and made top 4. My losses were to Elves in the Swiss and then the same Elves player in top 4. The matchup seemed absolutely miserable. Anyone else have that experience against Elves?

[TinkerRobot]

I played the colored list at a local event and made top 4. My losses were to Elves in the Swiss and then the same Elves player in top 4. The matchup seemed absolutely miserable. Anyone else have that experience against Elves?

Interesting to hear this, I had been considering the switch from Colorless to 3/4/5 color, but I don't want to lose % in that match. Walking Ballista, Warping Wail and Chalice of the Void are such great tools against Elves.

[TLK]

They’re just so fast that an early Ballista for like 1 or 2 isn’t enough. He essentially turn 3’d me every game. Maybe I just got unlucky but it was rough.

[Abantau]

Did you guys saw the Dominaria spoilers? Damping sphere is a problem for our SOL lands.

[Secretly.A.Bee]

Sure, how much play it will get remains to be seen though. It's a pretty narrow use card.

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk

[contra]

I don't think damping sphere will see much legacy play. Here's my rainbow eldrazi list:

https://i.imgur.com/GsbRg0h.png

[Mr. Froggy]

I think Dampening Sphere will see a bit of play in SBs since a big part of the meta is X/Stompy variants nowadays.

[Mr. Froggy]

I don't understand, with MUD I have an amazing game win% and with this deck I can't seem to win. At all. I see its raw power but I can't seem to win.

Do you guys mulligan aggressively with it? And if so, what cards are you looking for in your opening hands?

I run a very standard Eldrazi list, so no need to post it (they all seem to be the same).

[Gwathnar]

I don't understand, with MUD I have an amazing game win% and with this deck I can't seem to win. At all. I see its raw power but I can't seem to win.

Do you guys mulligan aggressively with it? And if so, what cards are you looking for in your opening hands?

I run a very standard Eldrazi list, so no need to post it (they all seem to be the same).

I usually look for a couple sol lands, an early threat or a lock piece (Chalice).
Chalice on 1 is a great play against many many decks - if they counter it well that means you might be able to jam a beater.

I wouldn't say I mulligan aggressively but I've gone down to 4 (didn't work), I've also kept bad 7s for a laugh and won.

I kept a hand of 1 sol land, 2 SSG and TKS so I could exile something turn 1 twice last time I played, that was not a good keep haha.

[Darkness]

I don't understand, with MUD I have an amazing game win% and with this deck I can't seem to win. At all. I see its raw power but I can't seem to win.

Do you guys mulligan aggressively with it? And if so, what cards are you looking for in your opening hands?

I run a very standard Eldrazi list, so no need to post it (they all seem to be the same).

So I feel that the most important skills to pilot with this deck are Mulligans/MU knowledge and Sideboarding. Since you have no way of manipulating and very little actual card advantage knowing what hands to keep in what MU is a must for this deck. I think T1 Chalice hands are always a keep going in blind if you have a follow up play since the Chalice can produce virtual card advantage but I find that the strongest starts with the deck are Mimic/ Chalice on T1 followed up with non stop creatures. Putting pressure on your opponent quickly is the best way to win in game 1. Games 2/3 require the original skill set I described. Knowing what cards are bad and what cards are good is super important. I have an old sideboard guide I made last year which is somewhat outdated but the basic principals can be used. I also have my Match Up analysis guide up for more data if you wanna look at that.

One last topic I would suggest thinking about is wasteland decks. Wasteland is so much more powerful against us than non sol land decks because they basically are killing 2 lands instead of one. So knowing if you're gonna need lands (ie Mull)to play around wasteland is super important against decks like Delver, DnT, Lands esc.

Hope that helps some.

[Darkness]

I have played about 80 matches and and swapping -2 Walking Ballista for +2 Oblivion Sower for the fair MU push. I may change to to main deck warping wails.

I will be working on an updated sideboard guide this week expect it to be done by end of next weekend.

[bakofried]

I have played about 80 matches and and swapping -2 Walking Ballista for +2 Oblivion Sower for the fair MU push. I may change to to main deck warping wails.

I will be working on an updated sideboard guide this week expect it to be done by end of next weekend.

Looking forward to it. I ran your list at a local tonight to a 3-1 finish, beating R/W Painter, U/W StoneBlade, and Grixis Delver, losing to Turbo Depths in the 3rd round. Any suggestions on how to board for that match? Or, even more important, how to mulligan?

[Darkness]

Looking forward to it. I ran your list at a local tonight to a 3-1 finish, beating R/W Painter, U/W StoneBlade, and Grixis Delver, losing to Turbo Depths in the 3rd round. Any suggestions on how to board for that match? Or, even more important, how to mulligan?

Turbo Depths is a pretty bad MU they have speed and consistency and combo through lands.

-2 Oblivion Sower or Basllista, whichever you are on (too slow and does clock or interact)
-1 Mishra's Factory (Games don't go long no need for grind cards)
-4 Matter Reshaper (Games don't go long no need for grind cards)

On the Play
+2 Sorcerous Spyglass (allows you to hit hexmage, thespian stage or even safe keeper. One of our best)
+2 Warping Wail (Counter's Discard/ kill's their creatures)
+2 Thorn of Amethyst (Can slow them down while we pressure them)
+1 Karakas (One of the MU we have 2 Karakas in 75 for)

On the Draw
+2 Sorcerous Spyglass (allows you to hit hexmage, thespian stage or even safe keeper. One of our best)
+2 Warping Wail (Counter's Discard/ kill's their creatures)
+1 Karakas (One of the MU we have 2 Karakas in 75 for)
+1 Ratchet Bomb (Interacts with creatures)
+1 All is Dust (Super slow but we are desperate)



Basically Chalice on 1 in to TKS is the obvious best start. Most of their cards are 1 CMC. As for Mulligans, you don't need to worry about card count as much as quality since the games should go quickly so having a fast clock and good disruption is worth it in my opinion. I want to emphasize that this is probably a 30/70 MU in their favor so don't sweat if you find it difficult taking them down.

[Gwathnar]

I have played about 80 matches and and swapping -2 Walking Ballista for +2 Oblivion Sower for the fair MU push. I may change to to main deck warping wails.

I will be working on an updated sideboard guide this week expect it to be done by end of next weekend.

Looking forward to the side board guide.

I took Walking Ballista out a little while ago and haven't been missing him.

[bakofried]

Looking forward to the side board guide.

I took Walking Ballista out a little while ago and haven't been missing him.

I've consistently been disappointed by Walking Ballista. That might be due to my local meta (no Death and Taxes or Elves), but even against Grixis Delver I was underwhelmed. The mana so rarely lined up, and required taking a considerable amount of damage from Ancient Tombs.

[Darkness]

I’m working on creating the Eldrazi Stompy discord channel. Should be up by mid April. Once up I will post and a PM for invite wil grant access.

[korstructure]

Serum Powder

http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=48920&type=card

In 2016, it looks like NoLoam and others worked on a Serum Powder + Eternal Scourge list briefly before coming to the conclusion that it was too janky.

But that was two years ago... there are a few changes that might position this better:


Chalice of the Void is at an all-time high in power level. So finding it in your opening hand gives us more % points to win the game than before. Cantrips, DRS, Cabal Therapy, Fatal Push are seeing all-time high play. Furthermore, Abrupt Decay is seeing all-time low play since its printing.
Blood Moon is more common than ever, a typical "hoser" against us; Serum Powder gives us a Main Deck mana rock that can produce <C>.
Finding explosive draws featuring a higher critical mass of cards is important to beating Grixis Delver. Granted, Serum Powder itself is not a great card to have in hand... I wonder if the drawback is worthwhile here?


The success of the so-called "Colorless Eldrazi" deck in Modern gives something of a proof-of-concept. Can we supercharge that idea to make it Legacy powerful?

A few questions where I'd love your input:


Cards like Leyline of the Void get better. So do Chalice of the Void, Eye of Ugin, and Thorn of Amethyst - these are cards that we always want in our opener and we have a higher chance to see them there as a result of Serum Powder mulligans. What other cards might we want to see more consistently on Turn 1?
More frequently mulliganing to a Turn 1 Chalice means that we'll encounter less Swords to Plowshares, Lightning Bolts, and Fatal Pushes. As a result, creatures become better. We probably want to maximize the number of creatures in the deck, but does that mean we cut cards like All is Dust or Dismember?
If creatures encounter less removal, might we want to play 4 Mishra's Factory or even more?
How good/bad is Eternal Scourge in this meta? It certainly mitigates some of the damage from Serum Powder. But unlike Modern, we won't utilize Relic of Progenitus to recur it.


Thanks in advance for your thoughts! I hope that Powder Eldrazi might become Legacy viable, especially in certain metas.

[bakofried]

Serum Powder

http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=48920&type=card

In 2016, it looks like NoLoam and others worked on a Serum Powder + Eternal Scourge list briefly before coming to the conclusion that it was too janky.

But that was two years ago... there are a few changes that might position this better:


Chalice of the Void is at an all-time high in power level. So finding it in your opening hand gives us more % points to win the game than before. Cantrips, DRS, Cabal Therapy, Fatal Push are seeing all-time high play. Furthermore, Abrupt Decay is seeing all-time low play since its printing.
Blood Moon is more common than ever, a typical "hoser" against us; Serum Powder gives us a Main Deck mana rock that can produce <C>.
Finding explosive draws featuring a higher critical mass of cards is important to beating Grixis Delver. Granted, Serum Powder itself is not a great card to have in hand... I wonder if the drawback is worthwhile here?


The success of the so-called "Colorless Eldrazi" deck in Modern gives something of a proof-of-concept. Can we supercharge that idea to make it Legacy powerful?

A few questions where I'd love your input:


Cards like Leyline of the Void get better. So do Chalice of the Void, Eye of Ugin, and Thorn of Amethyst - these are cards that we always want in our opener and we have a higher chance to see them there as a result of Serum Powder mulligans. What other cards might we want to see more consistently on Turn 1?
More frequently mulliganing to a Turn 1 Chalice means that we'll encounter less Swords to Plowshares, Lightning Bolts, and Fatal Pushes. As a result, creatures become better. We probably want to maximize the number of creatures in the deck, but does that mean we cut cards like All is Dust or Dismember?
If creatures encounter less removal, might we want to play 4 Mishra's Factory or even more?
How good/bad is Eternal Scourge in this meta? It certainly mitigates some of the damage from Serum Powder. But unlike Modern, we won't utilize Relic of Progenitus to recur it.


Thanks in advance for your thoughts! I hope that Powder Eldrazi might become Legacy viable, especially in certain metas.

Don't give me ideas right before the GP, but I think the idea may warrant revisiting. The only question I have is how much chaff does the deck really have? There are flex spots to be sure, but they're often filled with cards tailored to specific metagames, or situations that our normal game plan can't handle.

[Gwathnar]

I've consistently been disappointed by Walking Ballista. That might be due to my local meta (no Death and Taxes or Elves), but even against Grixis Delver I was underwhelmed. The mana so rarely lined up, and required taking a considerable amount of damage from Ancient Tombs.

Same here, Endless One was always better. Double X killed it for me.
Now don't get me wrong, he's a great card but didn't work out for me.

I went 2-1 tonight at my local LGS with the deck. Lost to my buddy playing some sort of RUG Delver brew - 3 Tarmogoyf steam rolled me in game 2.
Other then that I faced ANT - some early tax locked him out.
Last match was Dredge was I was nervous about - lost game 1, game 2 he coincided the second I played Leyline of the Void on turn 0. Game 3 was grindy, no Leyline and he only got 1 Bridge in then when a second hit I chump blocked to get rid of it. Ended up tutoring via Eye of Ugin for Endbringer and pinging him for 1 on my next up keep to win the match.

Love the deck, constantly getting better with it. The locals are actually running side board hate to try and combat the deck lol.

[Gwathnar]

Haven’t seen it discussed yet but a friend of mine thinks the new Karn could be useful to us. I don’t see it fitting.

http://www.magicspoiler.com/mtg-spoiler/karn-scion-of-urza/

[Darkness]

Haven’t seen it discussed yet but a friend of mine thinks the new Karn could be useful to us. I don’t see it fitting.

http://www.magicspoiler.com/mtg-spoiler/karn-scion-of-urza/

His ultimate is non functional in our deck due to the lack of artifact support. His +1 and -1 function as card advantage in control match ups but is far inferior compared to Coercive Portal which is the same mana cost, cannot be attacked nor doesn't give our opponent the option of what cards to give or not give us that turn. It doesn't belong here. I think it might have a spot in UB Tezzerator but not here.

[Vicar in a tutu]

His ultimate is non functional in our deck due to the lack of artifact support. His +1 and -1 function as card advantage in control match ups but is far inferior compared to Coercive Portal which is the same mana cost, cannot be attacked nor doesn't give our opponent the option of what cards to give or not give us that turn. It doesn't belong here. I think it might have a spot in UB Tezzerator but not here.

I find the comparison to Coercive Portal a bit odd. Portal doesn't do anything until your next upkeep. New Karn allows you draw straight away or create either a chump blocker, Jitte-carrier or a creature that has a fairly good chance of growing and becoming a real threat (Chalice of the Void, Mishra's Factory and Jitte). Next turn you could choose to create another artifact creature, increasing the size of all of them. And after that, Karn still has 1 loyalty left. Admittedly, the card draw will always be the worst of the top two cards of your library. That's a relevant drawback. However, the best of the two cards will get a silver counter and will be available later on, either with the current Karn or with a new one. Oh, and Karn doesn't die to artifact removal (Kolaghan's Command, Disenchant, Wear/Tear, Abrade, whatever). In return, as you pointed out, it can be attacked.

I just can't see why Karn wouldn't be better than Coercive Portal. With that said, I don't see Coercive Portal in aggro-Eldrazi all that often. So the whole Karn vs. Portal debate might be a moot point.

[Barook]

I do like Karn, but I just don't think he fits into the general aggro approach of Eldrazi.

[Darkness]

I find the comparison to Coercive Portal a bit odd. Portal doesn't do anything until your next upkeep. New Karn allows you draw straight away or create either a chump blocker, Jitte-carrier or a creature that has a fairly good chance of growing and becoming a real threat (Chalice of the Void, Mishra's Factory and Jitte). Next turn you could choose to create another artifact creature, increasing the size of all of them. And after that, Karn still has 1 loyalty left. Admittedly, the card draw will always be the worst of the top two cards of your library. That's a relevant drawback. However, the best of the two cards will get a silver counter and will be available later on, either with the current Karn or with a new one. Oh, and Karn doesn't die to artifact removal (Kolaghan's Command, Disenchant, Wear/Tear, Abrade, whatever). In return, as you pointed out, it can be attacked.

We do not have enough artifacts to support this card, 4 chalice 2 Jitte and 2 Mishra's Maindeck is hardly what I call support. That's less 13% support for the card. and At best you're making what a 2/2? Also, you counter argument that Karn doesn't die to all the artifact removal is true but Portal doesn't die to ALL the creatures in the format.


the whole Karn vs. Portal debate might be a moot point.

Agreed :tongue:

I've been thinking of trying Sea Gate Wreckage in the Main deck instead of a Factory. It has been really good against the grindy matches in the modern version of the deck for me and the Control Match Ups are our worst which is where Sea Gate would shine. I will test it after my first 200 Match Up analysis is completed which should be by the end of the month.

[bakofried]

Went 5-3 in the main and 3-0 in a side with this. Tournament report incoming in the next few days.

[Gwathnar]

His ultimate is non functional in our deck due to the lack of artifact support. His +1 and -1 function as card advantage in control match ups but is far inferior compared to Coercive Portal which is the same mana cost, cannot be attacked nor doesn't give our opponent the option of what cards to give or not give us that turn. It doesn't belong here. I think it might have a spot in UB Tezzerator but not here.

Pretty much how I felt.

I think the deck as it sits is perfect, just comes down to how you pilot it.

[themtgzealot]

Just picked up the deck and 5-0 my first league with the list Todd Anderson talked about on SCG (Dropped 2 Traps for Warping Wail)

4x Maindeck Dismembers were lit.

[Manipulato]

Just picked up the deck and 5-0 my first league with the list Todd Anderson talked about on SCG (Dropped 2 Traps for Warping Wail)

4x Maindeck Dismembers were lit.

Congratz, could you share your list with us?

[bakofried]

Just picked up the deck and 5-0 my first league with the list Todd Anderson talked about on SCG (Dropped 2 Traps for Warping Wail)

4x Maindeck Dismembers were lit.


I'd like to see the list, even if 4 Dismembers seems suicidal.

[themtgzealot]

Congratz, could you share your list with us?

Sure here is the list:

4 Eldrazi Mimic
4 Reality Smasher
4 Endless One
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Matter Reshaper
4 Chalice of the Void
2 Endbringer
4 Dismember
2 Umezawa's Jitte
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Eldrazi Temple
2 Mishra's Factory
4 Wasteland
2 City of Traitors
3 Eye of Ugin
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Karakas
3 Simian Spirit Guide

4 Thorn of Amethyst
2 Warping Wail
2 All Is Dust
1 Karakas
2 Sorcerous Spyglass
4 Leyline of the Void

[Manipulato]

Sure here is the list:

4 Eldrazi Mimic
4 Reality Smasher
4 Endless One
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Matter Reshaper
4 Chalice of the Void
2 Endbringer
4 Dismember
2 Umezawa's Jitte
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Eldrazi Temple
2 Mishra's Factory
4 Wasteland
2 City of Traitors
3 Eye of Ugin
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Karakas
3 Simian Spirit Guide

4 Thorn of Amethyst
2 Warping Wail
2 All Is Dust
1 Karakas
2 Sorcerous Spyglass
4 Leyline of the Void

What MU's did you face? Were the 2 Karakas in the MD worth it or a Game winning advantage? I personally really like the 2nd Urborg in the MD because it has a great synergy with Eye of Ugin and Ancient Tomb, I think it gives the deck a little bit of consistancy...I personally would never go under 3 City of Traitors because the 2 colorless mana without any damage is too important in the early-/midgames.
4 Dismember seem really suicidle especially with only 1 Urborg...How do you liked them?

[themtgzealot]

What MU's did you face? Were the 2 Karakas in the MD worth it or a Game winning advantage? I personally really like the 2nd Urborg in the MD because it has a great synergy with Eye of Ugin and Ancient Tomb, I think it gives the deck a little bit of consistancy...I personally would never go under 3 City of Traitors because the 2 colorless mana without any damage is too important in the early-/midgames.
4 Dismember seem really suicidle especially with only 1 Urborg...How do you liked them?

I played against Sultai Leovold, Grixis Delver x2, D&T amd ANT

Only playing 1 Karakas in the main deck and it was not very relevant in the matches I played.

Personally don't see a 2nd Urborg being needed, I can see merit to getting a 3rd City of Traitors though.

4x Dismember was great the match is usually over before you draw too many and having 4 means I always had the 1 I needed to kill that key blocker / threat.

[Darkness]

Current at 160 MU and sitting exactly at 68% win loss ratio. Spreadsheet of matchups is in my signature link if you wanna see.

After 200 Match ups expect the following

1. A detailed report of my findings of the deck and potential changes my list needs to improve
2. A complete up to date sideboarding guide of the current meta
3. A live discord for Eldrazi Stompy in legacy

P.S. if DRS is banned on monday this may delay numbers 1&2.

[themtgzealot]

Current at 160 MU and sitting exactly at 68% win loss ratio. Spreadsheet of matchups is in my signature link if you wanna see.

After 200 Match ups expect the following

1. A detailed report of my findings of the deck and potential changes my list needs to improve
2. A complete up to date sideboarding guide of the current meta
3. A live discord for Eldrazi Stompy in legacy

P.S. if DRS is banned on monday this may delay numbers 1&2.

Would be keen to see this as prepping for GP pretty happy with my list but sideboarding I'm not 100% sure on just yet.

[Darkness]

Would be keen to see this as prepping for GP pretty happy with my list but sideboarding I'm not 100% sure on just yet.

If you need any help while I finish the 200 matches just send me a message and I would be happy to assist and collaborate on which cards work and don't work for which match ups. Also as an old resource I have the side boarding guide from Noloam and myself about a year and a half ago in my signature.

[bakofried]

If you need any help while I finish the 200 matches just send me a message and I would be happy to assist and collaborate on which cards work and don't work for which match ups. Also as an old resource I have the side boarding guide from Noloam and myself about a year and a half ago in my signature.

Heh, I should've said some thing earlier. I'd probably have made Day 2 at Seattle.

Tournament report is almost done, just needs to be edited.

[Darkness]

The 200 MU Analysis should be up by next Monday, I'm 183 in and will need 1 or 2 days to finish the 17 matches. I am in progress of the Sideboarding Guide as we speak and will try to rewrite the primer if I feel up for the challenge

Revision: @197 expect more data by tomorrow.

[Darkness]

Ok I have finished my 200 Matches and in the Link below I have a basic breakdown of Deck Types I faced and their win% Full Archetype Breakdown and DTB Breakdown. With my current 75 the only decks I and worried about facing in the current meta are as such:

BR Reanimator: 50.0%
Lands: 28.6%
Turbo Depths: 33.3%
Sneak Attack: 40.0%
Moon Stompy 25.0%


I am fully away that there isn't much we can do against these decks since they try to interact with us in a way we cannot. However against the rest of the Meta I feel as if we are favored or even. I plan on continuing this project until Eldrazi Stompy as an Archetype is no longer a Tier 1 deck.

Expect the following within the week.

1. Full Sideboarding Guide against the Complete Meta
2. Potential card update within my 75 to combat our bad MU.

[darkgh0st]

Ok I have finished my 200 Matches and in the Link below I have a basic breakdown of Deck Types I faced and their win% Full Archetype Breakdown and DTB Breakdown. With my current 75 the only decks I and worried about facing in the current meta are as such:

BR Reanimator: 50.0%
Lands: 28.6%
Turbo Depths: 33.3%
Sneak Attack: 40.0%
Moon Stompy 25.0%


I am fully away that there isn't much we can do against these decks since they try to interact with us in a way we cannot. However against the rest of the Meta I feel as if we are favored or even. I plan on continuing this project until Eldrazi Stompy as an Archetype is no longer a Tier 1 deck.

Expect the following within the week.

1. Full Sideboarding Guide against the Complete Meta
2. Potential card update within my 75 to combat our bad MU.

Thank you for the data. It is well known that those are the archetypes that Eldrazi struggles with.

Eldrazi was taken out of the DTB section this month and hasn't been popular/performing well, so it is not tier 1 anymore (at least for the time being).

I am looking to address some of the match-up issues by adding a color and having basic lands.

[Darkness]

Thank you for the data. It is well known that those are the archetypes that Eldrazi struggles with.

Eldrazi was taken out of the DTB section this month and hasn't been popular/performing well, so it is not tier 1 anymore (at least for the time being).

I am looking to address some of the match-up issues by adding a color and having basic lands.

When I said I play it as long as it was tier I meant that it wasn't a fringe deck, which should be for a long time. In regards to the Color I think the solution is UW for Eldrazi Displacer//Drowner of Hope but I am concerned on how it weakens our MU against Grixis, which I find to be favorable. I'm thinking about removing the 2 Ratchet Bombs for a third Spyglass// and a 2nd All is Dust or a 3rd Warping Wail. Thoughts?

[bakofried]

Alright, my tournament report is up.

http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?32365-The-Colour(less)-Out-of-Bakersfield-5-3-with-Eldrazi-at-Grand-Prix-Seattle

[darkgh0st]

When I said I play it as long as it was tier I meant that it wasn't a fringe deck, which should be for a long time. In regards to the Color I think the solution is UW for Eldrazi Displacer//Drowner of Hope but I am concerned on how it weakens our MU against Grixis, which I find to be favorable. I'm thinking about removing the 2 Ratchet Bombs for a third Spyglass// and a 2nd All is Dust or a 3rd Warping Wail. Thoughts?

I had been running the 3 AiDs until Dragon Stompy came out. I'm favoring 2 Bombs, 2 AiDs split there. I ended up with 2 Spyglasses in the side and can't find a slot for the 3rd. I also favored 3-4 Wails as they can do so much.

[themtgzealot]

There was a list post yesterday with 4x Endbringer in the main - personally I have rarely ever resolved one to know if its good.

Still small sample size but around 70% WR in my testing for GP Birmingham

Thanks to Darkness for his great work and his sideboard guide - looking forward to the new one :)

[Darkness]

There was a list post yesterday with 4x Endbringer in the main - personally I have rarely ever resolved one to know if its good.

Still small sample size but around 70% WR in my testing for GP Birmingham

Thanks to Darkness for his great work and his sideboard guide - looking forward to the new one :)

Endbringer is a house, it can help close out grindy games fast. It's also our best creature card against the Griselbrand, Emrakul, and Marit Laiges of the MtG world. I wouldn't play 4 as there is no immediate value and you need a whole turn to start using it, but I have 2 in my current 75 and those spots have definitely been earned by the colorless menace.

[caprino]

I have just picked up Eldrazi online and have been loving it. I am currently 40-11 with Noloam's 75. That puts me at 78% win loss ratio which is ridiculous. I had trouble the first few times I played the deck earlier this year primarily due to side boarding decisions. The list is similar to a combo deck where it is trying to be very consistent every game and side boarding out the wrong cards can break that consistency and will dilute the power of the deck. Understanding what cards are important in which match ups are critical since we do not have general counter spells or discard which can hit all different types of relevant cards per match up, instants, sorcery, artifacts, creatures esc. Here is the side boarding guide for Noloam's 75 that he and I have been working on for about a week, it covers the most common decks in legacy, there are a few rare ones missing but you should be able to decipher what cards are good and why they are good for other match ups based on this guide.

Eldrazi Stompy
Sideboarding Guide


List

Creatures (25)

4 - Endless One
4 - Eldrazi Mimic
4 - Matter Reshaper
4 - Thought-Knot Seer
4 - Reality Smasher
3 - Simian Spirit Guide
2 - Oblivion Sower

Artifacts (6)

4 - Chalice of the Void
2 - Umezawa’s Jitte

Instants (4)

2 - Warping Wail
2 - Dismember

Lands (25)

4 - Ancient Tomb
4 - Cavern of Souls
4 - Eldrazi Temple
4 - Eye of Ugin
3 - Mishra’s Factory
3 - Wasteland
2 - City of Traitors
1 - Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth

Sideboard (15)

4 - Thorn of Amethyst
4 - Leyline of the Void
2 - All is Dust
2 - Ratchet Bomb
1 - Endbringer
1 - Pithing Needle
1 - Karakas


Match Ups

Miracles

-3 Matter Reshaper (No value vs. Swords to Plowshares and Terminus)
-3 Simian Spirit Guide (This is an early game card and the games will go long. Blow outs into over exposure into Terminus cause losses)
-2 City of Traitors (This is an early game card games will go late)
-2 Umezawa’s Jitte (You don’t want to draw both in the late game, it is still fine vs Monastery Mentor, Vendilion Clique and Snapcaster Mage)

+ 2 Ratchet Bomb (Catch all vs Counterbalance, Back to Basics, Angel and Mentor tokens, Blood Moon and Moat)
+ 1 Pithing Needle (Good vs. Sensei’s Divining Top and Jace)
+ 4 Thorn of Amethyst (Slows them down, makes their cantrips less effective)
+ 1 All is Dust (Against a overloaded board of Mentor or Angel tokens, Jace, Blood Moon, Back to Basics and Moat)
+ 1 Karakas (Better lategame than city and it bounces Vendilion Clique/Venser)
+ 1 Endbringer (Good threat and is a great source of card advantage)

Grixis/BUG/RUG Delver

No Boarding (Your matchup is good from the start do not dilute they deck from what it is already doing)

Shardless BUG

-3 Simian Spirit Guide (This is an early game card and the games will go long)

+2 All is Dust (Cleans the board after a stalemate)
+1 Endbringer (Good threat and is a great source of card advantage)

Jund

-3 Simian Spirit Guide (This is an early game card and the games will go long)

+2 All is Dust (Cleans the board after a stalemate)
+1 Endbringer (Good threat and is a great source of card advantage)

Death & Taxes

-4 Chalice of the Void (It gets bounced by Flickerwisp and only catches Swords to Plowshares and Aether Vial. They board out the moms after boarding of course)

+1 Pithing Needle (Good against Wasteland, Aether Vial, Mangara, Stoneforge Mystic)
+2 All is Dust (It is not the best strategy as their game plan is to deny you access to your mana. However, if the games go late and you have your mana it helps clean up the board.)
+1 Karakas (Helps to escape the mana denial plan and bounces Thalia)

Eldrazi

-4 Chalice of the Void (no targets)

+1 Endbringer (Good threat and is a great source of card advantage)
+2 Ratchet Bomb (Shuts down big Endless Ones)
+1 Karakas (Extra land vs Wasteland)

Storm

-4 Matter Reshaper (The card is too slow and has no disruption to their combo)
-2 Oblivion Sower (The card is too slow and has no disruption to their combo)
-2 Dismember (No valid targets)
-2 Umezawa’s Jitte (This card is too slow and has no disruption to their combo)

+4 Thorn of Amethyst (Slows them down, makes their cantrips less effective)
+4 Leyline of the Void (Gets Past in Flames, Cabal Therapy, if they try to flash back with Goblin tokens and Cabal Ritual)
+2 Ratchet Bomb (Gets Empty the Warrens mainly, but can clean up their Lion’s Eye Diamonds and Lotus Petals if they are scared for a Chalice of the Void on zero. Play them before your Chalice hits the board)

Elves

-2 Oblivion Sower (The card is too slow and has no disruption to their combo)
-2 Matter Reshaper (Mediocre, doesn’t disrupt what they are trying to do)
-1 Dismember (You take too much damage, you can get raced afterwards if you have an Ancient Tomb in play since they can swarm you)

+2 All is Dust (If you Though-Knot Seer their Glimpse of Nature or Natural Order, you slow them down and can flush their board afterwards)
+2 Ratchet Bomb (Catch all against since most of their deck consists of one drops)
+1 Pithing Needle (Good vs Deathrite Shaman, Wirewood Symbiotic and Quiron Ranger)

Omni-Tell

-2 Umezawa’s Jitte (This card is too slow and has no disruption to their combo)
-2 Dismember (No valid targets)
-2 Matter Reshaper (The card is too slow and has no disruption to their combo)

+4 Thorn of Amethyst (Slows them down, makes their cantrips less effective)
+1 Endbringer (Stops Emrakul from attacking)
+1 Karakas (Can bounce Show and Tell Emrakul)

Sneak Attack

-2 Umezawa’s Jitte (This card is too slow and has no disruption to their combo)
-2 Dismember (No valid targets)
-3 Matter Reshaper (The card is too slow and has no disruption to their combo)

+4 Thorn of Amethyst (Makes cantrips less effective, slows them down)
+1 Pithing Needle (Stops Sneak Attack)
+1 Endbringer (Stops Emrakul and Griselbrand from attacking)
+1 Karakas (Can bounce Show and Tell Emrakul and Griselbrand)

Lands

-2 Umezawa’s Jitte (This card is too slow and has no disruption to their combo)
-2 Dismember (No valid targets)
-1 Warping Wail (Mediocre too few targets, Gamble and Life from the Loam)

+4 Leyline of the Void (Locks out their Life from the Loam and their Punishing Fire)
+1 Karakas (Bounces Marit Lage and good versus Wasteland)

Infect

-1 Oblivion Sower (The card is too slow and has no disruption to their combo)

+1 Pithing Needle (Shuts down Inkmoth Nexus)

Stoneblade Variants

-3 Simian Spirit Guide (This is an early game card and the games will go long)

+2 All is Dust (Catches all (True-Name Nemsis, Batterskull Germ, Jace, Stoneforge Mystics, Snapcaster Mage, Lingering Soul Tokens, Hierarchs, Sylvan Libraries)
+1 Endbringer (games always go to the late game, so it’s great vs Batterskull and it shoots down Baleful Strix)

Burn

-1 Ancient Tomb (You don’t want to help the burn deck)
-2 Dismember (You don’t want to help the burn deck)
-2 Oblivion Sower (Card is too slow)

+1 Karakas (Better than Ancient tomb)
+4 Thorn of Amethyst (Helps to slow them down and to prevent the Ensnaring Bridge from hitting the board)

Reanimator

-2 Oblivion Sower (This card is too slow and has no disruption to their combo)
-2 Umezawa’s Jitte (This card is too slow and has no disruption to their combo)
-2 Dismember (No valid targets)
-3 Matter Reshaper (The card is too slow and has no disruption to their combo)

+1 Karakas (Bounces the Griselbrand, Elesh Norn and Jin-Gitaxias when they hit play)
+4 Leyline of the Void (Locks out the graveyard package)
+4 Thorn of Amethyst (Makes cantrips less effective and slows them down)

Mavericks

-4 Chalice of the Void (Not enough targets and can they play Cavern of Souls)

+1 Endbringer (Taps Knight of the Reliquary and helps break Standstills)
+2 All is Dust (Helps to clear the board in a standstill)
+1 Karakas (Helps vs Wasteland and Thalia and to make it easier to All is Dust)

Oops All Spells

-2 Oblivion Sower (This card is too slow and has no disruption to their combo)
-2 Umezawa’s Jitte (This card is too slow and has no disruption to their combo)
-1 Dismember (Targets only the Undercity Informer, when they do not have mana up to use it)
-3 Matter Reshaper (The card is too slow and has no disruption to their combo)

+4 Leyline of the Void (Locks out the graveyard package)
+4 Thorn of Amethyst (Makes fast mana less effective, slows them down)

Dredge

-2 Oblivion Sower (Comes out to slowly doesn’t help breaks standstills)
-2 Dismember (Doesn’t help when you are being swarmed)
-2 Umezawa's Jitte (Doesn't help when being swarmed, costs a lot of mana to get live, you'll spend early turns doing other things more effective.

+4 Leyline of the Void (Nullifies their graveyard strategy completely)
+2 Ratchet Bomb (Clears all Zombie tokens made by Bridge from Below)

Manaless Dredge

-2 Oblivion Sower (Comes out to slowly doesn’t help breaks standstills)
-2 Dismember (Doesn’t help when you are being swarmed)
-2 Warping Wail (Though it can counter the first of Cabal Therapy and Dread return, it doesn’t stop the sac flashback for each, which is what enables their Bridge from Below engine)
-2 Umezawa’s Jitte (Comes down to slowly doesn’t clean up standstills fast enough)

+4 Leyline of the Void (Hit their graveyard to lock them out of the game)
+4 Thorn of Amethyst (They have no mana so it will permanently lock the from casting Cabal Therapy or Dread Return)

Grixis Tezzerator

-4 Chalice of the Void (No targets as they run it)
-2 Dismember (No valid targets)
-2 Warping Wails (Not enough targets to keep in post board)
-1 Umezawa’s Jitte (Comes down to slowly doesn’t disrupt what they are doing)

+4 Leyline of the Void (Stops their Thopter Foundry Combo)
+2 Ratchet Bombs (Destroys Thopter Tokens, Thopter Foundry, Ensnaring Bridge and Blood
Moon)
+2 All is Dust (Kills All Planeswalkers, Blood Moon, The Abyss, Nether Void, Thopter Foundry and Thopter tokens)
+1 Pithing Needle (Stops Tezzeret, Jace, Dack Fayden and Thoper Foundry, lots of application)

4c Loam

-4 Chalice of the Void (No targets as they run it)
-2 Warping Wail (Doesn’t hit enough targets to be valued in matchup)

+4 Leyline of the Void (Stops their Life from the Loam lock, Knight of the Reliquary growing and Punishing Fire lock)
+2 All is Dust (Cleans up Board from all their permanents late game)

UR Delver

-1 Ancient Tomb (You don’t want to help the burn deck)
-2 Dismember (You don’t want to help the burn deck)
-2 Oblivion Sower (Comes down too late and makes price of progress even more awkward)

+1 Karakas (Better than Ancient Tomb damage)
+4 Thorn of Amethyst (Makes cantrips less effective, slows down their burn package)

G/B Turbo Depths

-2 Umezawa’s Jitte (This card is too slow and has no disruption to their combo)
-2 Dismember (Too few Targets)
-1 Oblivion Sower(Too slow and doesn't disrupt what they are doing)

+1 Karakas (Bounces Maret Lage)
+1 Pithing Needle (Stops Wasteland lock, Vampire Hexman, Thespian Stage, Knight of the Reliquary, Deathrite Shaman, Sensei’s Divining Top and Expedition Map)
+1 Endbringer (Great Threat and Taps Marit Lage token and Knight of the Reliquary)
+2 Ratchet Bomb (Hits Deathrite Shaman, Dark Confidant, Sylvan Library and Knight of the Reliquary)

12 Post

-2 Umezawa’s Jitte (This card is too slow and has no disruption to their combo)

+1 Pithing Needle (Helps against Expedition Map, Sensei’s Divining Top, Candelabra, Ugin the Spirit Dragon and Eye of Ugin)
+1 Endbringer (Good end game Threat and taps their Primeval Titan, Emrakuls, or Ulamog.)

Aluren

-2 Oblivion Sower (Comes down too slowly and doesn’t disrupt their combo)

+2 All is Dust (Catch all for if the game goes late)

Merfolk

-4 Chalice of the Void (They also run Chalice of the Void and have Cavern of Souls)
-2 Warping Wail (It only hits Silvergail Adept and Curse Catcher but not if they have a lord effect)

+2 Ratchet Bomb (Their Lords are all two drops and helps sweep their board)
+2 All is Dust (Helps to clear the board in a standstill)
+1 Pithing Needle (Hits Aether Vial, Wasteland and Mutavault)
+1 Endbringer (Can target Phantasmal Image and is just better then Warping Wail)

MUD

-4 Chalice of the Void (They also run Chalice of the Void and have Cavern of Souls)
-1 Warping Wail (Not enough targets to use post board)

+1 Pithing Needle (Hits Mishra’s Factory, Karn Liberated, Wasteland, Umezawa’s Jitte and Kuldotha Forgemaster)
+1 Karakas (Helps to avoid Wasteland disruption)
+1 Endbringer (Helps to match their bigger creatures)
+2 Ratchet Bomb (A bad card due to their big mana costs, but better than Chalice of the Void or Warping Wail)

Pox

-2 Oblivion Sower (To expensive to effectively cast vs their land hate)
-2 Dismember (To few targets apart from Mishra’s Factory)

+1 Pithing Needle (Good vs their Lilianas, Wasteland and Mishra’s Factory)
+2 Ratchet Bomb (Good vs Ensnaring Bridge)
+1 Karakas (Helps to avoid Wasteland disruption)

Nic Fit

-3 Simian Spirit Guide (You will go into late game explosiveness is not as relevant)
-2 Umezawa’s Jitte (Not very impressive, only if the run Baleful Strix)
-1 Matter Reshaper (Not very impressive doesn’t pair well vs their fatties)

+4 Leyline of the Void (vs Veteran Explorer, Recurring Nightmare, Cabal Therapy and Eternal Witness)
+2 All is Dust (The primary purpose is to rid the board of Planeswalkers and break late game standstills)

Goblins

-4 Chalice of the Void (They also run Chalice of the Void and have Cavern of Souls)

+2 All is Dust (Helps to clear the board in a standstill)
+1 Pithing Needle (Hits Aether Vial, Rishadan Port and Wasteland)
+1 Karakas (Helps prevent land Disruption, also bounces Thalia if they are running it pasteboard which can assist casting a crucial All is Dust)

Tin Fins

-2 Oblivion Sower (This card is too slow and has no disruption to their combo)
-2 Umezawa’s Jitte (This card is too slow and has no disruption to their combo)
-2 Dismember (No valid targets)
-2 Matter Reshaper (The card is too slow and has no disruption to their combo)
-2 Warping Wail (Too slow and they play more instant speed reanimates compared to traditional Reanimator)

+1 Karakas (Bounces the Griselbrand or Emrakul when they hit play)
+4 Leyline of the Void (Locks out their graveyard package completely)
+4 Thorn of Amethyst (Slows them down, makes their cantrips less effective)
+1 Pithing Needle (Hits Griselbrand or Children of Korlis)

Painter’s Servant

-2 Oblivion Sower (Comes down too slowly and doesn’t disrupt their combo)
-1 Matter Reshaper (Does not interact with their combo enough)

+2 Ratchet Bomb (Helps disrupt the Painter’s Servant Grindstone interaction and can take out pesky permanents like Blood Moon, Magus of the moon and Ensnaring Bridge)
+1 Pithing Needle (Hits Sensei’s Divining Top, Goblin Welder, Grindstone and Jaya Ballard)

Vs big eldrazi you side same 12 post?

[Darkness]

Vs big eldrazi you side same 12 post?

With my current 75 against Big Eldrazi my plan is as such

Out
-4 Chalice of the Void
In
+2 Ratchet Bomb
+2 Sorcerous Spyglass


After the results with my 200 MU with this configuration I might be changing 2 cards in the board. -2 Ratchet Bomb +1 Sorcerous Spyglass +1 All is Dust.

[Arcadia]

I see you guys have replaced Endbringer with Oblivion Sower because of blood moon. That's just 2 cards more you can cast, and it's usually not as good as endbringer.
I was considering adding 1-2 wastes maindeck, and even 1-2 more as a sideboard option. Mishra-Urborg-Karakas are nice, but I can imagine at least taking out 1 mishra's factory. I'd also consider Walking Ballista, as it's "removal" for pyromancers and a few other creatures.

I personally run 4 thorns maindeck and I love them. They're very good against blue decks and combo and it gives you free wins. I find them more appealing than more Warping Wail, Jittes and Dismembers (which are also dead, depending on the match up). For a few matchups you then have many cards to SB out (4 chalice 4 thorn). It has some pros and cons.

[Darkness]

I see you guys have replaced Endbringer with Oblivion Sower because of blood moon. That's just 2 cards more you can cast, and it's usually not as good as endbringer.
I was considering adding 1-2 wastes maindeck, and even 1-2 more as a sideboard option. Mishra-Urborg-Karakas are nice, but I can imagine at least taking out 1 mishra's factory. I'd also consider Walking Ballista, as it's "removal" for pyromancers and a few other creatures.

Who are "You Guys?" I play a 2/2 Spilt of Endbringer and Sower. Sower doesn't do much against Blood Moon, it's for the Midrange MU to out grind and eventually get an Eye of Ugin live consistently. We don't have enough non Eldrazi mana to make Ballista worth it, I tried it for about 75 games and it was underwhelming.


I personally run 4 thorns maindeck and I love them. They're very good against blue decks and combo and it gives you free wins. I find them more appealing than more Warping Wail, Jittes and Dismembers (which are also dead, depending on the match up). For a few matchups you then have many cards to SB out (4 chalice 4 thorn). It has some pros and cons.

I do not see how Thorn is good against the Blue decks, especially Grixis Delver when that MU is all about controlling board not the stack. Plus, they have DRS to mitigate the tax effect and continue to play their game out. It is a house against Storm but not as good against Turbo Depths or Sneak and Show.

[bakofried]

Who are "You Guys?" I play a 2/2 Spilt of Endbringer and Sower. Sower doesn't do much against Blood Moon, it's for the Midrange MU to out grind and eventually get an Eye of Ugin live consistently. We don't have enough non Eldrazi mana to make Ballista worth it, I tried it for about 75 games and it was underwhelming.



I do not see how Thorn is good against the Blue decks, especially Grixis Delver when that MU is all about controlling board not the stack. Plus, they have DRS to mitigate the tax effect and continue to play their game out. It is a house against Storm but not as good against Turbo Depths or Sneak and Show.

Agreed on both points. Sower stares down Anglers, Goyfs, and other fatties with relative ease, and has hilarious applications against random decks like Eldrazi Post. Grixis Delver will have hands that get shut down by Thorn, but if they're drawing spells, they're already losing.

[Darkness]

Sideboard Changes
-2 Ratchet Bombs
+1 Warping Wail
+1 Sorcerous Spyglass


These are my changes after my analysis. I will be creating a Sideboard Guide using my 75 by the weekend.

[bakofried]

Sideboard Changes
-2 Ratchet Bombs
+1 Warping Wail
+1 Sorcerous Spyglass


These are my changes after my analysis. I will be creating a Sideboard Guide using my 75 by the weekend.

My one concern with cutting Ratchet Bomb is that the deck then loses its best way to remove an artifact (read: Ensnaring Bridge).

[Darkness]

My one concern with cutting Ratchet Bomb is that the deck then loses its best way to remove an artifact (read: Ensnaring Bridge).

I agree. I'm going to test without and see if my non prison deck MU become significantly better. I feel it's the worst card in the board and is basically a sacred cow due to E Bridge. but it takes 4 turns to remove 1 Ebridge and if we haven't already spewed our hand before a blood moon we probably have no creatures. I'm not saying I am correct yet I'm just trying out new things. It's possible I will revert back after I gather data to support my new hypothesis.

[Arcadia]

I play a 2/2 Spilt of Endbringer and Sower.
I see 2 sowers in the maindeck and 1 Endbringer in the sideboard :eyebrow:



Sower doesn't do much against Blood Moon, it's for the Midrange MU to out grind and eventually get an Eye of Ugin live consistently. We don't have enough non Eldrazi mana to make Ballista worth it, I tried it for about 75 games and it was underwhelming.


Then I misunderstood the sower.
I was testing yesterday the Ballista and as much as I want it to work...it's very slow.



I do not see how Thorn is good against the Blue decks, especially Grixis Delver when that MU is all about controlling board not the stack. Plus, they have DRS to mitigate the tax effect and continue to play their game out. It is a house against Storm but not as good against Turbo Depths or Sneak and Show.

It's good against grixis and I would sideboard them in even if it's in the SB. They can't develop their game through thorn. Every time I played against Delver and I played the thorn the opponents said that thorn was a nightmare for them. I usually won those games. They also always try to FoW it, it's like a chalice for them almost. Those are also not the only blue decks. I just feel that Jitte, warping wail and dismember are fine but not powerful enough.



Is there are card which is really good against sneak and show or moon stompy and is not run usually? I have the feeling the matchups are simply bad and you can't do more. Ratched bomb is not enough vs moon and spyglass and karakas doesn't seem enough either vs sneak and show. I saw some SB with Boompile :laugh: but it didn't perform very well (surprise).

[Darkness]

I see 2 sowers in the maindeck and 1 Endbringer in the sideboard :eyebrow:

Where are you looking for that? Click on the link of current decks I play it should take you to MTG Goldfish, that's my current 75. Don't look at my previous projects those are outdated.


Then I misunderstood the sower.
I was testing yesterday the Ballista and as much as I want it to work...it's very slow.

It is too slow and should be a meta call not a staple for this deck. Maybe if you have a ton of DnT in your meta but I don't think it's an auto include like most people have been doing lately.


It's good against grixis and I would sideboard them in even if it's in the SB. They can't develop their game through thorn. Every time I played against Delver and I played the thorn the opponents said that thorn was a nightmare for them. I usually won those games. They also always try to FoW it, it's like a chalice for them almost. Those are also not the only blue decks. I just feel that Jitte, warping wail and dismember are fine but not powerful enough.

Personally I disagree with bringing in any cards agains Grixis Delver. I can see an argument when you're on the play to bring it in, but I just don't think anything is worth bringing out. From my testing for the current meta and the late 2016 I never saw Thorn to be an effective card against Delver. It's possible you opponents are playing sub par and not looking for the optimal opening hand, which should be 2 threats 2 lands at least 1 cantrip at least 1 interaction spell for the board and anything else. Like I said its' a horrible late game card and sometimes you'll have a Thorn and they have a flipped Delver, or a DRS to mitigate the taxing effect or an Angler. I'm just not a fan, and with a 70% win loss against the deck I don't want to experiment and potentially alter my success.


Is there are card which is really good against sneak and show or moon stompy and is not run usually? I have the feeling the matchups are simply bad and you can't do more. Ratched bomb is not enough vs moon and spyglass and karakas doesn't seem enough either vs sneak and show. I saw some SB with Boompile :laugh: but it didn't perform very well (surprise).

The only card I have changed is adding a 3rd Sorcerous Spyglass, that card is good against the card Sneak Attack and all the planeswalkers in Moon Stompy. It's useful against DnT, Lands and Turbo Depths as well. I also agree that Ratchet Bomb is too slow and I have taken them out of my current 75 to test the deck without the card. Sneak and Show and Moon Stompy are some of our worst MU and I don't see anything currently that effectively deals with Moon Stompy. I talked to a couple of my friends about making the Marit Leige, Griselbrand, and Emrakul MU's better but the only effective thing you can do is go UW for Eldrazi Displacer and Drowner of Hope. However, I have concluded it ends up hurting our good MU, Delver variants, DNT, too much by giving then a color to strip us from. I have also added a 3rd Warping Wail to combat the combo decks. I think you have to accept that those two decks are bad MUs until we get more tools. The good news any new artifacts are potential tools for our colorless deck.

On a side note, I'm hoping during the summer to save up enough money to be able to buy the deck on MODO and start streaming. When I do I will let everyone know here so we can do some streams!

[Manipulato]

Where are you looking for that? Click on the link of current decks I play it should take you to MTG Goldfish, that's my current 75. Don't look at my previous projects those are outdated.



It is too slow and should be a meta call not a staple for this deck. Maybe if you have a ton of DnT in your meta but I don't think it's an auto include like most people have been doing lately.



Personally I disagree with bringing in any cards agains Grixis Delver. I can see an argument when you're on the play to bring it in, but I just don't think anything is worth bringing out. From my testing for the current meta and the late 2016 I never saw Thorn to be an effective card against Delver. It's possible you opponents are playing sub par and not looking for the optimal opening hand, which should be 2 threats 2 lands at least 1 cantrip at least 1 interaction spell for the board and anything else. Like I said its' a horrible late game card and sometimes you'll have a Thorn and they have a flipped Delver, or a DRS to mitigate the taxing effect or an Angler. I'm just not a fan, and with a 70% win loss against the deck I don't want to experiment and potentially alter my success.



The only card I have changed is adding a 3rd Sorcerous Spyglass, that card is good against the card Sneak Attack and all the planeswalkers in Moon Stompy. It's useful against DnT, Lands and Turbo Depths as well. I also agree that Ratchet Bomb is too slow and I have taken them out of my current 75 to test the deck without the card. Sneak and Show and Moon Stompy are some of our worst MU and I don't see anything currently that effectively deals with Moon Stompy. I talked to a couple of my friends about making the Marit Leige, Griselbrand, and Emrakul MU's better but the only effective thing you can do is go UW for Eldrazi Displacer and Drowner of Hope. However, I have concluded it ends up hurting our good MU, Delver variants, DNT, too much by giving then a color to strip us from. I have also added a 3rd Warping Wail to combat the combo decks. I think you have to accept that those two decks are bad MUs until we get more tools. The good news any new artifacts are potential tools for our colorless deck.

On a side note, I'm hoping during the summer to save up enough money to be able to buy the deck on MODO and start streaming. When I do I will let everyone know here so we can do some streams!

Hi,
I builded the deck lately and I wanted to ask you what you think about the builds with 2 All is Dust in the MD? I saw such lists doing well here and there. I'm personally afraid that this is just way to risky and greedy especially in Wasteland MU's like Delver & DnT. I think its only good when someone expects tons of 4c Czech Pile, BUG Midrange and Miracles...

What would you think about removing the 2 Oblivion Sower and replace them with the 3rd+4th Endbringer? He has no immediate effect and no fat 8 toughness butt but he's also really good in grindy MU's, also a cc6 Eldrazi dude, hard to deal with and super flexible. I love it to attack with him and then draw a extra card EOT or ping some Strixes, SCM, Elves or DnT guys...He also can keep in check the Marit Large token...

Are you still happy with the 2 Karakas in your 75? How often were they the game winner in needed MU's?

Would love to hear your thoughts here.

Greetings

[Darkness]

Hi,
I builded the deck lately and I wanted to ask you what you think about the builds with 2 All is Dust in the MD? I saw such lists doing well here and there. I'm personally afraid that this is just way to risky and greedy especially in Wasteland MU's like Delver & DnT. I think its only good when someone expects tons of 4c Czech Pile, BUG Midrange and Miracles...

I agree it does seems to greedy. You will never cast them against the Delver or Death and Taxes decks, they do nothing against the Combo decks, and seem like overkill against the control decks, which you already have a good MU against. Just like Ballista, it's a meta call. If your LGS is full of Czech pile and Miracles go for it but at a GP, on MODO, or in an unknown meta the risk it too high. Personally, I only play one since drawing 2 is overkill. The games go long enough that you will see it and you only need to cast it once to win the game.


What would you think about removing the 2 Oblivion Sower and replace them with the 3rd+4th Endbringer? He has no immediate effect and no fat 8 toughness butt but he's also really good in grindy MU's, also a cc6 Eldrazi dude, hard to deal with and super flexible. I love it to attack with him and then draw a extra card EOT or ping some Strixes, SCM, Elves or DnT guys...He also can keep in check the Marit Large token...

Endbringer is an interesting card. Way back in the day when Goyf's were king vs this deck a 5/5 wasn't enough to take over the Goyf the game. That still stands true today. Goyf's and Gurmag Angler's challenge this card straight up. He can generate advantage in grindy games and can stop a huge monster threat however the lack of an immediate effect in such a potent format like legacy leads me to try to diversify. The reason I choose the Split between the Sower and Endbringer is because Sower allows you to brick wall against the Angler and Goyf Matchups and gives you immediate value with potential card advantage. In my eyes if Endbringer lives you get actual and virtual card advantage with his abilities but the point with Sower is to guarantee an inevitable live Eye of Ugin, bringing out fatty after fatty each turn and overwhelming your opponent through removal. In regards to the Marit Liege or Sneak and Show MU against Endbringer, they have many ways to playaround it. A smart Show and Tell player will ensure they Show and tell an Omniscience or a Sneak Attack to guarantee a push with their Emrakul, making Endbringer useless. Against a Lands player, they will just land lock us plus Tabernacle to kill our Endbringer and then combo, and Turbo Depths can use Sylvan Safekeeper to counter the Endbriner activation or they just make a 20/20 on turn two and kill us :tongue:. I do like Endbringer but I don't want 4 in my 75. As mentioned, I don't see a reliable card to battle huge 20/20 or 15/15 unless you go into UW and then you mess with your Delver MU, which is favored for us. In such a diverse format each deck will have bad MUs that have little to no correction without vastly altering your 75. In my opinion those decks are the MU where we can't do much, except to play tight and hope to get a lucky.

Are you still happy with the 2 Karakas in your 75? How often were they the game winner in needed MU's? I do like the Karakas in my 75 both to assist with the MU I Just described in the paragraph above and as random utility against Thalias or Leovolds. They are here to stay for me.

One last emphasis on my take of our "Bad Match Ups" and my acceptance to not do much to improve them.

ANT TES Belcher. Go take a look at my spreadsheet, those MU are basically free wins. I think I've lost to ANT once, 0 to TES and 0 to Belcher. We are their "Sneak and Show, Lands, Moon Stompy" There really isn't much they can do to vastly improve the match up against us. Why is that? Well it's simple. We are playing a game that doesn't interact with that they are doing. They have no creatures or removal to get rid of TKS, they have no counters against Chalice of the Void. Our game plan just so happens to accidentally counter theirs. No one planned that, it just happened to work out that way due to the nature of our cards. Thats exactly what Lands, Turbo Depths, Moon Stompy and Sneak and Show does to us. They are playing a game that just so happens to naturally ignore or disregard what we are doing and execute their game plan uninterrupted. That's my 2 cents on that topic. I do want to make those MU better but I don't see a feasible way without either changing are deck into Eldrazi Post or going UW and messing with our good MU. We either accept them as bad MU, change our deck, or wait till new cards get printed that will help us attack their game plan.

P.S. Would anyone at all be interested in me streaming on Cockatrice? If so send me a Private Message so I can tally it up and coordinate it.

[Manipulato]

I agree it does seems to greedy. You will never cast them against the Delver or Death and Taxes decks, they do nothing against the Combo decks, and seem like overkill against the control decks, which you already have a good MU against. Just like Ballista, it's a meta call. If your LGS is full of Czech pile and Miracles go for it but at a GP, on MODO, or in an unknown meta the risk it too high. Personally, I only play one since drawing 2 is overkill. The games go long enough that you will see it and you only need to cast it once to win the game.



Endbringer is an interesting card. Way back in the day when Goyf's were king vs this deck a 5/5 wasn't enough to take over the Goyf the game. That still stands true today. Goyf's and Gurmag Angler's challenge this card straight up. He can generate advantage in grindy games and can stop a huge monster threat however the lack of an immediate effect in such a potent format like legacy leads me to try to diversify. The reason I choose the Split between the Sower and Endbringer is because Sower allows you to brick wall against the Angler and Goyf Matchups and gives you immediate value with potential card advantage. In my eyes if Endbringer lives you get actual and virtual card advantage with his abilities but the point with Sower is to guarantee an inevitable live Eye of Ugin, bringing out fatty after fatty each turn and overwhelming your opponent through removal. In regards to the Marit Liege or Sneak and Show MU against Endbringer, they have many ways to playaround it. A smart Show and Tell player will ensure they Show and tell an Omniscience or a Sneak Attack to guarantee a push with their Emrakul, making Endbringer useless. Against a Lands player, they will just land lock us plus Tabernacle to kill our Endbringer and then combo, and Turbo Depths can use Sylvan Safekeeper to counter the Endbriner activation or they just make a 20/20 on turn two and kill us :tongue:. I do like Endbringer but I don't want 4 in my 75. As mentioned, I don't see a reliable card to battle huge 20/20 or 15/15 unless you go into UW and then you mess with your Delver MU, which is favored for us. In such a diverse format each deck will have bad MUs that have little to no correction without vastly altering your 75. In my opinion those decks are the MU where we can't do much, except to play tight and hope to get a lucky.

Are you still happy with the 2 Karakas in your 75? How often were they the game winner in needed MU's? I do like the Karakas in my 75 both to assist with the MU I Just described in the paragraph above and as random utility against Thalias or Leovolds. They are here to stay for me.

One last emphasis on my take of our "Bad Match Ups" and my acceptance to not do much to improve them.

ANT TES Belcher. Go take a look at my spreadsheet, those MU are basically free wins. I think I've lost to ANT once, 0 to TES and 0 to Belcher. We are their "Sneak and Show, Lands, Moon Stompy" There really isn't much they can do to vastly improve the match up against us. Why is that? Well it's simple. We are playing a game that doesn't interact with that they are doing. They have no creatures or removal to get rid of TKS, they have no counters against Chalice of the Void. Our game plan just so happens to accidentally counter theirs. No one planned that, it just happened to work out that way due to the nature of our cards. Thats exactly what Lands, Turbo Depths, Moon Stompy and Sneak and Show does to us. They are playing a game that just so happens to naturally ignore or disregard what we are doing and execute their game plan uninterrupted. That's my 2 cents on that topic. I do want to make those MU better but I don't see a feasible way without either changing are deck into Eldrazi Post or going UW and messing with our good MU. We either accept them as bad MU, change our deck, or wait till new cards get printed that will help us attack their game plan.

P.S. Would anyone at all be interested in me streaming on Cockatrice? If so send me a Private Message so I can tally it up and coordinate it.

Thx for your detailed answer. I´m really looking forward to see your new updated sideboard guide! A twitch or MTGO stream would be cooler for me personally but every content you give us is welcomed.

Greetings

[Eldariel]

ANT TES Belcher. Go take a look at my spreadsheet, those MU are basically free wins. I think I've lost to ANT once, 0 to TES and 0 to Belcher. We are their "Sneak and Show, Lands, Moon Stompy" There really isn't much they can do to vastly improve the match up against us. Why is that? Well it's simple. We are playing a game that doesn't interact with that they are doing. They have no creatures or removal to get rid of TKS, they have no counters against Chalice of the Void. Our game plan just so happens to accidentally counter theirs. No one planned that, it just happened to work out that way due to the nature of our cards. Thats exactly what Lands, Turbo Depths, Moon Stompy and Sneak and Show does to us. They are playing a game that just so happens to naturally ignore or disregard what we are doing and execute their game plan uninterrupted. That's my 2 cents on that topic. I do want to make those MU better but I don't see a feasible way without either changing are deck into Eldrazi Post or going UW and messing with our good MU. We either accept them as bad MU, change our deck, or wait till new cards get printed that will help us attack their game plan.

Eh, while the fact that the MU is good is true, I wouldn't quite say "nobody planned that". When designing the Chalice Aggro shell in the first place, the power against TES, Iggy Pop and Solidarity/High Tide was high up the list of reasons to play the shell in the first place. TKS of course further reinforces this already robust angle of attack but the good match-up is certainly by design in the very core of the "Ancient Tomb/City of Traitors/X accelerants + Chalice of the Void-shell" and one of the reasons to play those decks (the other big thing is of course the power you can leverage against cantrip-heavy blue decks but those by nature have more tools to work around it, being tailored to have the tools to fight anything).

[grokh]

Haven't seen it discussed here yet, coulf be this land interesting for Eldrazi ?

It gives you a scry 1 and produces <> mana

http://www.magic-ville.com/pics/big/pmo/430.jpg

[Darkness]

Eh, while the fact that the MU is good is true, I wouldn't quite say "nobody planned that". When designing the Chalice Aggro shell in the first place, the power against TES, Iggy Pop and Solidarity/High Tide was high up the list of reasons to play the shell in the first place. TKS of course further reinforces this already robust angle of attack but the good match-up is certainly by design in the very core of the "Ancient Tomb/City of Traitors/X accelerants + Chalice of the Void-shell" and one of the reasons to play those decks (the other big thing is of course the power you can leverage against cantrip-heavy blue decks but those by nature have more tools to work around it, being tailored to have the tools to fight anything).

I was not playing legacy back then consistently so thank you for the history of the stompy decks. My point was that our game plan, which is a meta deck, naturally counters certain decks just as other deck naturally counter ours and there is little we can do to fix this.


Haven't seen it discussed here yet, coulf be this land interesting for Eldrazi ?

It gives you a scry 1 and produces <> mana

http://www.magic-ville.com/pics/big/pmo/430.jpg

I don't think this card is worth using. If scry 1 is said to be worth half of a card, then Mishra's Factory, which is the only land I could see being replaced by this card, is certainly worth more than half of a card, so I don't see how this can fit into our current mana base. If anyone tries it I'd love to hear their results.

[themtgzealot]

Got another 5-0 last night with Darkness's MD

Changed the SB a little 3 Glass 2 Warping Wail 4 Thorn no Ratchet bombs.

Been meaning to test the new Karn but not got round to it yet.

[Darkness]

Got another 5-0 last night with Darkness's MD

Changed the SB a little 3 Glass 2 Warping Wail 4 Thorn no Ratchet bombs.

Been meaning to test the new Karn but not got round to it yet.

I've done about 20 or so MU without the Bombs and I haven't missed them at all. I am on 3 Spyglasses as well and haven't looked back. I will try my best this week to get the Side-boarding Guide up ASAP, been busy with Family and such.

[themtgzealot]

I've done about 20 or so MU without the Bombs and I haven't missed them at all. I am on 3 Spyglasses as well and haven't looked back. I will try my best this week to get the Side-boarding Guide up ASAP, been busy with Family and such.

On tender hooks here :)

[ParisFlorian]

I agree. I'm going to test without and see if my non prison deck MU become significantly better. I feel it's the worst card in the board and is basically a sacred cow due to E Bridge. but it takes 4 turns to remove 1 Ebridge and if we haven't already spewed our hand before a blood moon we probably have no creatures. I'm not saying I am correct yet I'm just trying out new things. It's possible I will revert back after I gather data to support my new hypothesis.

Another option against Bridge is World Breaker. I play 1 in SB, and I can reliably cast it thanks to 4 Cavern and 3 Elvish spirit guides.
It is also an effective answer to Moat, or even Blood Moon / Back to basics.
It is not as easy as Ratchet bomb to cast, but it acts immediately (you don't have to fear an Abrade, Decay or whatever kills it during 4 turns). And it is fetchable with an Eye on board.

Florian

[bakofried]

I've been having fun with D&T lately, but goddamn if I don't have the urge to (Reality) Smash some sons 'a bitches. C'mon, Darkness, where's your sideboard guide?

(I'll pilot this at next week's local).

[Darkness]

Another option against Bridge is World Breaker. I play 1 in SB, and I can reliably cast it thanks to 4 Cavern and 3 Elvish spirit guides.
It is also an effective answer to Moat, or even Blood Moon / Back to basics.
It is not as easy as Ratchet bomb to cast, but it acts immediately (you don't have to fear an Abrade, Decay or whatever kills it during 4 turns). And it is fetchable with an Eye on board.

Florian

I've already stated that I don't plan on going the colorless splash for various reasons But yes that is an option though not a good one as it is a one of.


I've been having fun with D&T lately, but goddamn if I don't have the urge to (Reality) Smash some sons 'a bitches. C'mon, Darkness, where's your sideboard guide?

(I'll pilot this at next week's local).

Super sorry, life is happening new job opportunities and school, finals end this week. Thursday guys, hold me to it I'm going to have it up Thursday. Also about 60 Matches deep without the Bombs and my WL has gone up by 4% compared to the previous 75 with Ratchet Bomb. If anyone wants to be apart of the process live LMK I can give you my discord and we can do an audio channel to discuss it. Again, this is for Thursday.

[Manipulato]

Seems like the Eldrazis had a good weekend with 3 copies in the Top 16 at SCG Balitmore http://www.starcitygames.com/decks/StarCityGamescom_Classic/2018-05-06_legacy_Baltimore_MD_US/1/

I also played my first tournament with this deck and placed 3rd wit a 4:1 finish...

This was the list I played http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=19132&f=LE

My MU´s were:

Round 1: Bye

Round 2: ANT 1:2
The dice roll decided G1 in his favour because he was OTP and made Probe into Therapy ripping my Chalice, then I had a T3 kill with Mimic which was to slow because he killed me on his T3. Game 2 I totally crushed him with Chalice, double Thorn and TKS...
Game 3 OTD I mulled down to 6 and kept a hand with Leyline + Chalice but without a Sol land or ape to cast chalice on 1 T1. So I decided to start with leyline in play and play Chalice on zero. It didnt matter in the end because he went off T2 without any LED or Petal and made 12 goblin token, even Leyline was not able to cut his mana enough and he chained two cabal ritual. In my next turn I drew Thorn :rolleyes: At the end I died to the goblins and only drew a Matter Reshaper and Endless One. I missed Ratchet Bomb here and I would have boarded it in for the Reshapers left in the MD...
Super close and unlucky games for me...

In:
+4 Leyline of the Void
+4 Thorn of Amethyst
+1 Warping Wail

Out:
-3 Matter Reshaper
-2 Endbringer
-2 Dismember
-2 Umezawas Jitte


Round 3: UR Delver 2:1
Game 1 and 2 were really close games because the power of two colorless mana from Ancient Tomb cost some life. I managed to survive at 1 life in G2. Game 3 I just stomped him with T1 Thorn and T2 Eye into double Mimic and T3 with Smasher/TKS :cool:
The Thorns were really good in this MU but UR Delver is the only Delver deck where I think its correct to bring the Thorns in.

In:
+4 Thorn of Amethyst
+1 Warping Wail

Out:
-2 Dismember
-2 Endbringer
-1 Matter Reshaper


Round 4: Elves 2:1
I had Chalice in all of my games and if I could play good magic I would have won 2:0 but I was stupid and countered a Glimpse (Chalice got destroyed by Abrupt Decay!) and one turn later he killed me with NO, super stupid of me :rolleyes: In this game I wasnt able to connect with the Jitte on time because he had Symbiote + Elf to block and bounce the duded before damage.
The MU was quite easy and TKS, Chalice, WW did a good job. Ratchet Bomb would have been good here also.

In:
+1 Warping Wail

Out:
-1 Matter Reshaper

I think we can bring in here some Spyglasses for the MD Reshapers because the Reshapers are super weak here but I didnt boarded them last Saturday...

Round 5: UW Miracles 2:0
Well what should I say? I just crushed him into oblivion both games, we played another two games after that and went 3:1. I lost one game to B2B. I had really good draws here with Chalice, Thorn, TKS, Smasher but ok...

In:
+4 Thorn of Amethyst
+1 Warping Wail

Out:
-2 Dismember
-2 Umezawas Jitte
-1 Matter Reshaper

I think if they´re heavily on Mentor then we can leave in some Jittes and take out more Reshapers. Spyglasses would also be better than the Reshapers but I was new to the deck and did not board 100% correct back then...

The MU´s I faced were good MU´s in general of course.

I tuned my SB to be good vs the Wasteland/Dark Depths/Legendary dudes decks like BR Reanimator, Sneak Show, Turbo Depths, Lands. I also expected some Dark Maverick at this tournament and I think 4 Spyglasses are super important to fight those Wasteland/DD strategies to get enough time to end the game with our fast clock.

Mishra´s Factory did totally nothing and was not really needed at all, most of the time I had stuff to cast with it and no time to animate it. The 2nd Urborg over the 3rd City of Traitors felt good and I was not really missing the 3rd City to be honest but I will test it further to see whats perfect. Warping Wail was really good in the MD and I will play this MD configuration again.

Right after the tournament I switched the 2 Mishras Factory for 2 Karakas to get some space in the SB for 2 Ratchet Bomb. I also cutted the 3rd WW and the 4th Spyglass for additional 2 All is Dust just to be more flexible against the wide field in general. I recognized that if I dont play Ratchet Bomb or AiD in the SB I have nothing or at least not many good stuff to bring in vs TNN decks like BUG or midrange strategys but 11 cards vs combo. I´m aware that Midrange decks are not our worst MU´s in general but I want to replace stuff like WW or something with more powerful cards to get more win % vs those decks, I mean why not making a even MU favourable?

The manabase is still in progress and I will try more configurations but so far I havent missed the 3rd City that much and I really love Urborg for not taking damage with Tombs, transform Eye of Ugin into a Mishras Workshop and casting Dismember without life loss or just taping Eye for a black mana to cast jitte/Chalice/WW.

My new list looks like that:

25 Creatures
4 Eldrazi Mimic
4 Endless One
4 Matter Reshaper
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
3 Simian Spirit Guide
2 Endbringer

10 Spells
4 Chalice of the Void

2 Umezawas Jitte
2 Warping Wail
2 Dismember

25 Lands
4 Ancient Tomb
2 City of Traitors
4 Eldrazi Temple
3 Eye of Ugin
4 Wasteland
4 Cavern of Souls
2 Karakas
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth


Sideboard:
4 Ley-Line of the Void
4 Thorn of Amethyst
3 Sorcerous Spyglass
2 Ratchet Bomb
2 All is Dust

[Darkness]

Seems like the Eldrazis had a good weekend with 3 copies in the Top 16 at SCG Balitmore http://www.starcitygames.com/decks/StarCityGamescom_Classic/2018-05-06_legacy_Baltimore_MD_US/1/

I also played my first tournament with this deck and placed 3rd wit a 4:1 finish...

This was the list I played http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=19132&f=LE

My MU´s were:

Round 1: Bye

Round 2: ANT 1:2
The dice roll decided G1 in his favour because he was OTP and made Probe into Therapy ripping my Chalice, then I had a T3 kill with Mimic which was to slow because he killed me on his T3. Game 2 I totally crushed him with Chalice, double Thorn and TKS...
Game 3 OTD I mulled down to 6 and kept a hand with Leyline + Chalice but without a Sol land or ape to cast chalice on 1 T1. So I decided to start with leyline in play and play Chalice on zero. It didnt matter in the end because he went off T2 without any LED or Petal and made 12 goblin token, even Leyline was not able to cut his mana enough and he chained two cabal ritual. In my next turn I drew Thorn :rolleyes: At the end I died to the goblins and only drew a Matter Reshaper and Endless One. I missed Ratchet Bomb here and I would have boarded it in for the Reshapers left in the MD...
Super close and unlucky games for me...

In:
+4 Leyline of the Void
+4 Thorn of Amethyst
+1 Warping Wail

Out:
-3 Matter Reshaper
-2 Endbringer
-2 Dismember
-2 Umezawas Jitte


Round 3: UR Delver 2:1
Game 1 and 2 were really close games because the power of two colorless mana from Ancient Tomb cost some life. I managed to survive at 1 life in G2. Game 3 I just stomped him with T1 Thorn and T2 Eye into double Mimic and T3 with Smasher/TKS :cool:
The Thorns were really good in this MU but UR Delver is the only Delver deck where I think its correct to bring the Thorns in.


Round 4: Elves 2:1
I had Chalice in all of my games and if I could play good magic I would have won 2:0 but I was stupid and countered a Glimpse (Chalice got destroyed by Abrupt Decay!) and one turn later he killed me with NO, super stupid of me :rolleyes: In this game I wasnt able to connect with the Jitte on time because he had Symbiote + Elf to block and bounce the duded before damage.
The MU was quite easy and TKS, Chalice, WW did a good job. Ratchet Bomb would have been good here also.

Round 5: UW Miracles 2:0
Well what should I say? I just crushed him into oblivion both games, we played another two games after that and went 3:1. I lost one game to B2B. I had really good draws here with Chalice, Thorn, TKS, Smasher but ok...

The MU´s I faced were good MU´s in general of course.

I tuned my SB to be good vs the Wasteland/Dark Depths/Legendary dudes decks like BR Reanimator, Sneak Show, Turbo Depths, Lands. I also expected some Dark Maverick at this tournament and I think 4 Spyglasses are super important to fight those Wasteland/DD strategies to get enough time to end the game with our fast clock.

Mishra´s Factory did totally nothing and was not really needed at all, most of the time I had stuff to cast with it and no time to animate it. The 2nd Urborg over the 3rd City of Traitors felt good and I was not really missing the 3rd City to be honest but I will test it further to see whats perfect. Warping Wail was really good in the MD and I will play this MD configuration again.

Right after the tournament I switched the 2 Mishras Factory for 2 Karakas to get some space in the SB for 2 Ratchet Bomb. I also cutted the 3rd WW and the 4th Spyglass for additional 2 All is Dust just to be more flexible against the wide field in general. I recognized that if I dont play Ratchet Bomb or AiD in the SB I have nothing or at least not many good stuff to bring in vs TNN decks like BUG or midrange strategys but 11 cards vs combo. I´m aware that Midrange decks are not our worst MU´s in general but I want to replace stuff like WW or something with more powerful cards to get more win % vs those decks, I mean why not making a even MU favourable?

The manabase is still in progress and I will try more configurations but so far I havent missed the 3rd City that much and I really love Urborg for not taking damage with Tombs, transform Eye of Ugin into a Mishras Workshop and casting Dismember without life loss or just taping Eye for a black mana to cast jitte/Chalice/WW.

My new list looks like that:

25 Creatures
4 Eldrazi Mimic
4 Endless One
4 Matter Reshaper
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
3 Simian Spirit Guide
2 Endbringer

10 Spells
4 Chalice of the Void

2 Umezawas Jitte
2 Warping Wail
2 Dismember

25 Lands
4 Ancient Tomb
2 City of Traitors
4 Eldrazi Temple
3 Eye of Ugin
4 Wasteland
4 Cavern of Souls
2 Karakas
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth


Sideboard:
4 Ley-Line of the Void
4 Thorn of Amethyst
3 Sorcerous Spyglass
2 Ratchet Bomb
2 All is Dust

Awesome stuff glad the deck performed well for you. I am thinking of cutting my Oblivion Sowers with the rise of Turbo Depths the Meta is speeding up and Czech Pile seems to be on a decline. I will probably replace it for a mix of Endbringer and Warping Wail in my Main and then open up some sideboard slots. How was the 4th copy of Spyglass for you?

Edit: Expect my SB guide sometime Tuesday, I am only doing the current decks I consider the DTB and the ones you should expect to see during your Swiss at a large event. I am also doing a match explanation per Archetype for it and will add to it going forward.

[aslidsiksoraksi]

hey all,

thinking of buying into the deck as it seems strong and i have most of the cards aside from the creatures. a few quick questions -

what do you think is most fun about playing the deck?

can the deck function without Cavern of Souls? that is the main money card I don't have, and I was thinking I'd play a full set of factories instead while I slowly pick up the caverns

Thank you for your help :)

[Manipulato]

hey all,

thinking of buying into the deck as it seems strong and i have most of the cards aside from the creatures. a few quick questions -

what do you think is most fun about playing the deck?

can the deck function without Cavern of Souls? that is the main money card I don't have, and I was thinking I'd play a full set of factories instead while I slowly pick up the caverns

Thank you for your help :)

Well I enjoy those T1 Chalice T2 Thought Knot Seer T3 Smasher draws where your oponent cant do that much and just get stomped :laugh:

I played Moon Stompy and Big Eldrazi aka Eldrazi Post before and I like this stompy version the most because its consistent and fast with a good power level. Moon Stompy for example is more powerful but its just a unconsistent pile of shit, I just realized that after playing four tournaments with it.

I think you can play without the caverns at the beginning but then your Delver MU gets a bit worse of course. In all non-blue MU's Mishra's Factory will be superior.

[Darkness]

hey all,

thinking of buying into the deck as it seems strong and i have most of the cards aside from the creatures. a few quick questions -

what do you think is most fun about playing the deck?

Personally the explosiveness is my favorite part. Going Mimic into TKS into Smasher, man not many decks can handle that. I do love seeing T1 Chalice and an opponent scoops em up too! The deck is very proactive and most of the time you are the aggro deck, that may change from time to time but it's pretty consistent. The hardest part about the deck is learning the MU and the opening hands you need and can keep, since we have no library manipulation, and how and what to sideboard, which I am in the process of creating a Decks to Beat Guide.


can the deck function without Cavern of Souls? that is the main money card I don't have, and I was thinking I'd play a full set of factories instead while I slowly pick up the caverns

The deck can but as mentioned my Manipulato your Delver and Miracles MU will suffer. That said if you plan on sticking with it I think it's a good choice.

[Manipulato]

Have you guys tried Karn, Scion of Urza? I saw him poping up here and there...

I'm thinking about replacing 2 All is Dust or 2 Ratchet Bomb with him but I'm not sure.

Till now I liked it to board in 4 Thorn vs blue midrange/control decks like UW Miracles and 4c Czech Pile and ride the tempo aggro plan but the Karns have a antisynergy with thorn because I tax my own spells then and 5 non-eldrazi Mana is alot. Same with All is Dust...
I think if I put 2 Karn into my SB then I should probably cut the 2 Ratchet Bomb so that I have 2 All is Dust + 2 Karn vs those archetypes. When I do that I should not bring in the 4 Thorns because of the taxing effect so the question is do I want to ride the tempo aggro sideboard plan with 4 Thorn of Amethyst or the more midrangey All is Dust + Karn plan?
I had no time to test both strategies that often so what do you guys think?
My sideboard with Karn would look like this:

Sideboard
4 Leyline of the Void
4 Thorn of Amethyst
3 Sorcerous Spyglass
2 Karn, Scion of Urza
2 All is Dust

Or is maybe Ratchet Bomb still good and gaining some percentages vs Delver/Elves/Moon Stompy worth it?

I played a small 3 rounder last weekend and went 1:2 winning 2:0 vs Esper Fearys, losing 1:2 vs Lands and losing 0:2 to Death and Taxes with a T3 Magus of the Moon and lots of equipment in G1 and really mediocre draws in G2.

I find the right boarding plan vs DnT quite difficult to be honest. Normally I would cut 4 Chalice of the Void because of Flickerwisp but they bring in 2 Path to Exile after boarding so we still have 6 Swords to Plowshares + 4 Aether Vial OtP to shut down with CotV and if I board out 4 Chalice then they just flicker my Endless One and plow my Thought Knots and Smashers on time :rolleyes:

Those thoughts were the reason why I boarded +3 Spyglass +2 All is Dust vs -4 Matter Reshaper and -1 Chalice of the Void.
Spyglass was solid but it alone will not win games, the Matter Reshapers are very bad vs DnT I think because of 6 Swords plus 4 Thalia and 2 Mirran Crusader. They have to cut 4 Mother of Runes so they will probably dont have enough stuff out of there SB to replace the Thalias, right?

The 2 All is Dust are also super risky because of there mana denial plan with 4 Wasteland 4 Rishadan Port and the 4 Thalia but if they resolve its lights out and we really have to bring in stuff for those CotV/Reshapers

[Qernavak]

Have you guys tried Karn, Scion of Urza? I saw him poping up here and there...

I'm thinking about replacing 2 All is Dust or 2 Ratchet Bomb with him but I'm not sure.

Till now I liked it to board in 4 Thorn vs blue midrange/control decks like UW Miracles and 4c Czech Pile and ride the tempo aggro plan but the Karns have a antisynergy with thorn because I tax my own spells then and 5 non-eldrazi Mana is alot. Same with All is Dust...
I think if I put 2 Karn into my SB then I should probably cut the 2 Ratchet Bomb so that I have 2 All is Dust + 2 Karn vs those archetypes. When I do that I should not bring in the 4 Thorns because of the taxing effect so the question is do I want to ride the tempo aggro sideboard plan with 4 Thorn of Amethyst or the more midrangey All is Dust + Karn plan?
I had no time to test both strategies that often so what do you guys think?
My sideboard with Karn would look like this:

Sideboard
4 Leyline of the Void
4 Thorn of Amethyst
3 Sorcerous Spyglass
2 Karn, Scion of Urza
2 All is Dust

Or is maybe Ratchet Bomb still good and gaining some percentages vs Delver/Elves/Moon Stompy worth it?



Karn's power level is high in an artifact heavy deck. On the other hand, you should act with caution in a Eldrazi stompy shell:
1. Karn's 3rd ability will not be very powerful, and when used will be mostly as a blocker to avoid death.
2. Karn's 1st ability is slightly worse than a cantrip because the opponent gets to chose which card you get. In that case, getting a random card would be better.
3. Karn's 2nd ability on 1-card choice is much better than a cantrip; however, the instances of going 1st ability > 2nd ability will be rather uncommon. More commonly you will be playing the 1st ability until the 2nd ability is akin to a tutor effect.
4. The intersection between MUs where Karn is good and Thorn is good is large. More often you won't be able to cast Karn because if had cast a Thorn earlier.

With the above points in mind, you can already imagine Karn being more of a control power house, or an excellent addition to affinity.




I played a small 3 rounder last weekend and went 1:2 winning 2:0 vs Esper Fearys, losing 1:2 vs Lands and losing 0:2 to Death and Taxes with a T3 Magus of the Moon and lots of equipment in G1 and really mediocre draws in G2.

I find the right boarding plan vs DnT quite difficult to be honest. Normally I would cut 4 Chalice of the Void because of Flickerwisp but they bring in 2 Path to Exile after boarding so we still have 6 Swords to Plowshares + 4 Aether Vial OtP to shut down with CotV and if I board out 4 Chalice then they just flicker my Endless One and plow my Thought Knots and Smashers on time :rolleyes:

Those thoughts were the reason why I boarded +3 Spyglass +2 All is Dust vs -4 Matter Reshaper and -1 Chalice of the Void.
Spyglass was solid but it alone will not win games, the Matter Reshapers are very bad vs DnT I think because of 6 Swords plus 4 Thalia and 2 Mirran Crusader. They have to cut 4 Mother of Runes so they will probably dont have enough stuff out of there SB to replace the Thalias, right?

The 2 All is Dust are also super risky because of there mana denial plan with 4 Wasteland 4 Rishadan Port and the 4 Thalia but if they resolve its lights out and we really have to bring in stuff for those CotV/Reshapers


I'm a big advocate of 4x Walking Ballista in the deck, even though most players here dislike the idea :tongue: . Vs. D&T Ballista is a powerhouse, and at the very worst, it will buy you enough time to play All is Dust. The Spyglass are also good and should be naming Wasteland/Ports/Aether Vial/ Stoneforge Mystic. I think the key to winning this MU is by stalling as much as possible and executing your AiD. By the way, I advocate playing at least 3x AiD.

Chalice is OK if you're in the play, but in general, I agree with you, they should not come in vs. D&T, they don't have the density of 1-CMC spells to maximize its use, they have several threats that easily dodge it, and they have MD + SB answers.

Cheers,
-Q

[Manipulato]

Karn's power level is high in an artifact heavy deck. On the other hand, you should act with caution in a Eldrazi stompy shell:
1. Karn's 3rd ability will not be very powerful, and when used will be mostly as a blocker to avoid death.
2. Karn's 1st ability is slightly worse than a cantrip because the opponent gets to chose which card you get. In that case, getting a random card would be better.
3. Karn's 2nd ability on 1-card choice is much better than a cantrip; however, the instances of going 1st ability > 2nd ability will be rather uncommon. More commonly you will be playing the 1st ability until the 2nd ability is akin to a tutor effect.
4. The intersection between MUs where Karn is good and Thorn is good is large. More often you won't be able to cast Karn because if had cast a Thorn earlier.

With the above points in mind, you can already imagine Karn being more of a control power house, or an excellent addition to affinity.





I'm a big advocate of 4x Walking Ballista in the deck, even though most players here dislike the idea :tongue: . Vs. D&T Ballista is a powerhouse, and at the very worst, it will buy you enough time to play All is Dust. The Spyglass are also good and should be naming Wasteland/Ports/Aether Vial/ Stoneforge Mystic. I think the key to winning this MU is by stalling as much as possible and executing your AiD. By the way, I advocate playing at least 3x AiD.

Chalice is OK if you're in the play, but in general, I agree with you, they should not come in vs. D&T, they don't have the density of 1-CMC spells to maximize its use, they have several threats that easily dodge it, and they have MD + SB answers.

Cheers,
-Q

Hi,
4 Walking Ballista seems brutal but I'm really interested in your list if your willing to share it with us.
Have you played some turneys with your Ballista and AiD heavy list? If so how does it went for you?

[Qernavak]

Hi,
4 Walking Ballista seems brutal but I'm really interested in your list if your willing to share it with us.
Have you played some turneys with your Ballista and AiD heavy list? If so how does it went for you?

I am more of a MTGO player and usually play in leagues. So far, 4x Ballistas is a plus in my book.

Here are some decklists:

https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/1104402#paper

http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=18540&d=315348&f=LE

[Darkness]

Due to financial reasons I will need to sell my competitive MTG collection. I will still be here for advise but will not longer own the deck in paper. Thanks for all the help from everyone and listening to my findings. I will still play on cockatrice.

[Manipulato]

Due to financial reasons I will need to sell my competitive MTG collection. I will still be here for advise but will not longer own the deck in paper. Thanks for all the help from everyone and listening to my findings. I will still play on cockatrice.

Wow that's hard, sorry that you have to do this!

How about your sideboard guide, I could need some advice :wink:

[bakofried]

Due to financial reasons I will need to sell my competitive MTG collection. I will still be here for advise but will not longer own the deck in paper. Thanks for all the help from everyone and listening to my findings. I will still play on cockatrice.

Sad to hear it. Maybe hold on to Cities? Everything else can be repurchased with far less of a headache.

[Darkness]

Wow that's hard, sorry that you have to do this!

How about your sideboard guide, I could need some advice :wink:

No problem still planning on posting


Sad to hear it. Maybe hold on to Cities? Everything else can be repurchased with far less of a headache.

I'll be graduating soon with an Engineering job, money shouldn't be an issue post graduation!

[Darkness]

No problem still planning on posting



I'll be graduating soon with an Engineering job, money shouldn't be an issue post graduation!

I got a job, not selling the deck anymore :tongue: Expect guide soon!

[mulder]

Took Eldrazi to an 80+ man Legacy tournament.
Played this list:
4 Thought Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
4 Eldrazi Mimic
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Thorn of Amethyst
2 Warping Wail
2 Matter Reshaper
3 Eldrazi Displacer
1 Karn Scion of Urza
2 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Phyrexian Metamorph (which was excellent the entire day)
2 Endbringer
1 Umezawa's Jitte

4 Eldrazi Temple
4 City of Traitors
4 Ancient Tomb
2 Eye of Ugin
2 Karakas
4 Cavern of Souls
2 Wastes
2 Wasteland
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth

SB
1 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Tormod's Crypt
2 Relic of Progenitus
1 Wurmcoil Engine
3 Ratchet Bomb
2 Dismember
2 Spellskite
2 Null Rod (was expecting some Steel Stompy)



R1: Bye
R2: 0-2 loss against czech Pile. Maindeck Toxic Deluge, Kolaghan's Command, Baleful Strix and Hymn to Tourach and a load of removal is not what you want to face... .
R3: 2-0 win against Infect
R4: 2-0 win against Grixis. Opponent mulls to five cards twice... .
R5: 2-0 win against Dredge
R6: 2-0 win against Turbo Lands. Thanks to an Endbringer keeping the Marit Lage under control... .
R7: 2-1 win against Grixis

Top 8: Loss against Miracles. This matchup is absolutely horrible. Before sideboard you have the advantage, but after SB it's like 90-10 in their advantage. Back to Basics, Disenchants for your Chalices / Thorns,... . Any good SB tips against this deck?

All in all, pretty happy with the deck. The Displacers were excellent in controlling the board and removing blockers / attackers and form a nice combo with Metamorph. The maindeck Thorns got sided out a few times but they were worth a maindeck spot. When your opponent's cantrips and planeswalkers start costing 1 or 2 mana more it slows their clock enormously, while having no effect on 90% of the cards you play.

[ksesler]

Took Eldrazi to an 80+ man Legacy tournament.
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 City of Traitors
4 Ancient Tomb
2 Eye of Ugin
2 Karakas
4 Cavern of Souls
2 Wastes
2 Wasteland
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth


How did the 4 City of Traitors and 2 Eye of Ugin do vs. the more traditional 2 or 3 traitors and 3 Eye or Ugin?

I see you have 2 wastes to get around back to basics and blood moon a bit. From a cost/benefit perspective, did that do well compared to the extra wasteland you would have been running otherwise?

thanks.
Keith

[ParisFlorian]

How did the 4 City of Traitors and 2 Eye of Ugin do vs. the more traditional 2 or 3 traitors and 3 Eye or Ugin?

I see you have 2 wastes to get around back to basics and blood moon a bit. From a cost/benefit perspective, did that do well compared to the extra wasteland you would have been running otherwise?

thanks.
Keith

In a wasteland-heavy meta, I use to run up to 4 Eyes (with 2 Urborgs), but never more than 2 City of Traitors.
4 Citys are ok when you need 2 sol lands on T2 to lock / close the game (eg Dragon Stompy, Steel Stompy), but here we have a higher curve and we have to be able to throw All Is Dust or a big threat around T4/5 max.

In the same way, I really feel that 4 Wasteland is too much.

[Darkness]

So new meta = Miracles//RUG Delver//Maverick//Combo decks//Lands//Stoneblade. WE GOT THIS!

Edit: Stoneblade about 7 minutes after this post.

[Ayiluss]

So new meta = Miracles//RUG Delver//Maverick//Combo decks//Lands. WE GOT THIS!
I would add DnT to that list but other than that I agree with it.

[Darkness]

I would add DnT to that list but other than that I agree with it.

Maverick is DnT replacement, if you placed legacy pre-DRS printing you'd would know what I'm talking about. Also editing in Stoneblade variants too.

[Ayiluss]

Maverick is DnT replacement, if you placed legacy pre-DRS printing you'd would know what I'm talking about. Also editing in Stoneblade variants too.
I played Maverick at that time so I know what are you talking about and I don't think it will replace DnT.

[Barook]

I've been out of the loop for a while - how good/bad is the match-up against the current iteration of Miracles, since they run 2x B2B in the maindeck (and use Mentors as win-con)?

[contra]

I've been out of the loop for a while - how good/bad is the match-up against the current iteration of Miracles, since they run 2x B2B in the maindeck (and use Mentors as win-con)?

It still feels like a positive MU for eldrazi - something like 60/40

The other day I played T1 TKS, T2 TKS, followed by T3 DOUBLE TKS!

I can't think of a deck which we don't have unbeatable draws against - caveat being we win the di roll.

[Barook]

It still feels like a positive MU for eldrazi - something like 60/40
Alright, thanks.

On a different note: Has anybody tried out a combination of Field of Ruin + Wastes? And if so, how did it go?

[cdnza]

Is anyone playing the deck still? Surprised to find the thread all the way down on the third page!

[ParisFlorian]

My local meta is infested with Mono Red Prison, so I prefer to play D&T right now :)

[DJ_AGUILA]

My local meta is infested with Mono Red Prison, so I prefer to play D&T right now :)
Do you prefer D&T than Eldrazi?:laugh::laugh:,never!!!! If in your meta is infested with mono red prison, three ratched bomb in the sideboard are great!!! and one or two Ulamog the Ceaseless Hunger for Ensnaring bridge or Blood moon

[ParisFlorian]

Casting Ulamog can be very hard... World Breaker is easier (with Elvish spirit guide + Caverns)
Ratchet bomb is cute but slow, and can easily be dealt with Abrade / Fiery confluence / Chaos Warp / etc.

Another option is MD All is Dust ; I really like that, but again it is slow, and it doesn't kill Bridge.

And I think we should consistently win G1 as we don't have amazing SB options.

[contra]

How are things feeling in the world of Moon Stompy? I haven't played any games with the deck post-ban, but I imagine it is in a worse position. I've been playing Eldrazi to scratch my stompy urges.

Moving this quote from the Mono Red Prison thread -

It's funny I've heard everyone saying eldrazi is good again, but I've been playing eldrazi pre-ban online (casually - 1-2 matches a day) and was able to rack up eight (8) 5-0's and many more 4-1's. I believe this was because every other deck I played was ctrl+c ctrl+v Czech pile or Grixis Delver. My win percentage against pile was 85% and 60% vs grixis delver.

Now that there are goyfs and wastelands everywhere I've had a lot more trouble online.

Here's the deck I had - no joke - a 70%+ win rate with in the pre-ban format:
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/player/Plasmonic

For the new meta I've gone -1 Endbring,-1 Trinispher +2 Oblivion Sower cause it's got a nice donk.

Not saying this deck isn't going to still be a tier 1 deck - but something no one else is saying is that this deck took a huge hit by the ban because it eliminated decks which eldrazi prayed on and brought back decks which are bad match-ups. I would much rather play against Czech pile pre-ban than RUG delver. Miracles is turning into a bad-matchup, and UB reanimator is much harder than BR reanimator.

[GreatWhale]

Moving this quote from the Mono Red Prison thread -

It's funny I've heard everyone saying eldrazi is good again, but I've been playing eldrazi pre-ban online (casually - 1-2 matches a day) and was able to rack up eight (8) 5-0's and many more 4-1's. I believe this was because every other deck I played was ctrl+c ctrl+v Czech pile or Grixis Delver. My win percentage against pile was 85% and 60% vs grixis delver.

Now that there are goyfs and wastelands everywhere I've had a lot more trouble online.

Here's the deck I had - no joke - a 70%+ win rate with in the pre-ban format:
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/player/Plasmonic

For the new meta I've gone -1 Endbring,-1 Trinispher +2 Oblivion Sower cause it's got a nice donk.

Not saying this deck isn't going to still be a tier 1 deck - but something no one else is saying is that this deck took a huge hit by the ban because it eliminated decks which eldrazi prayed on and brought back decks which are bad match-ups. I would much rather play against Czech pile pre-ban than RUG delver. Miracles is turning into a bad-matchup, and UB reanimator is much harder than BR reanimator.

I think Eldrazi never went anywhere. It is kind of a boring deck and takes a certain kind of person to keep jamming it (like myself). So when the Meta shifted, people are hunting around for a deck and Eldrazi is still good so now its "better" to these people.

[Cave]

I think the last two posts are both correct, if that's even possible.
I would like to add some.

1. The eldrazi core leaves little room for fantasy. With the notable exception of some players (Qvernavak comes to mind) experimenting with colored builds, the vast majority of the optimal cards for this archetype has been accepted by the community since forever, not that there is much of a choice either. The discussion in this threads often revolves around the same slots (Endbringer vs Sower, 3 Ugins vs 4, Thorn MD) and it is often a meta call. The deck has changed very little since its dawn (back in the days of the eldrazi apocalypse :tongue:).

2. Being a non-blue deck, Eldrazi has higher variance.

3. Being a very particular deck, Eldrazi it has very specific strenghts and weakness, and a lot of one-sided matchups (both "autowins" and "autolosses").

I can see why a deck possessing those traits would be prone to quickly rise and fall out of flavour in waves: sometimes it plays out weird, but you can't go wrong with deckbuilding, you know it works, and in the right metagame it's devastating. People are playing goblin tribal right now too, so to speak.

[Chapo]

Hey guys,
New kid on the block here.

I've seen a new list running Grim Monolith instead of Simian Spirit Guide: https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/1213701#paper . Does it allow more explosive starts ?
Also, those sideboard Tumble Magnets boggled my mind. Is it for match ups like OmniShow or Reanimator ?

[Eldariel]

Hey guys,
New kid on the block here.

I've seen a new list running Grim Monolith instead of Simian Spirit Guide: https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/1213701#paper . Does it allow more explosive starts ?
Also, those sideboard Tumble Magnets boggled my mind. Is it for match ups like OmniShow or Reanimator ?

SSG is obviously the more explosive of the two; Grim Monolith doesn't cast turn 1 Chalice. However, Grim does accelerate you into turn 2 Endbringers and Reality Smashers relatively easily, counters Blood Moon and similar effects (providing you with colorless mana to keep doing your thing) and it accelerates your endgame plan enabling activating Eye and casting Ulamog with the one-turn untap window. All the lists with Grim also tend to run some Ulamogs so it's basically just a higher curve version with Grim enabling those while simultaneously working with the stompy plan. Contrast that with SSG, which is purely a short game card with the plan of "I cast my stuff and win" and the difference is more stylistic than anything else. In the world of Moon Stompy, NewMiracles and company though, the longer game plan may be better positioned favouring Grim Monolith builds over the all-in Chalice-at-1 builds.

Tumble Magnets, well, probably. It's colorless removal that works on basically anything. It's not a great card but it can be a roleplayer and probably intended to fight all those decks that cheat big things into play (Marit Lage, Emrakul, Grissy, etc.).

[Barook]

I've noticed that most lists don't run Warping Wail anymore. Why is that?

[David Kaplan]

With the increase in Shadow, thoughts on adding Serum Powder/Eternal Scourge/Gemstones Caverns to increase the likelihood and ability to turn 1 Chalice? I did this a couple of years ago and the powders also helped hedge against Blood Moon.

[Chapo]

SSG is obviously the more explosive of the two; Grim Monolith doesn't cast turn 1 Chalice. However, Grim does accelerate you into turn 2 Endbringers and Reality Smashers relatively easily, counters Blood Moon and similar effects (providing you with colorless mana to keep doing your thing) and it accelerates your endgame plan enabling activating Eye and casting Ulamog with the one-turn untap window. All the lists with Grim also tend to run some Ulamogs so it's basically just a higher curve version with Grim enabling those while simultaneously working with the stompy plan. Contrast that with SSG, which is purely a short game card with the plan of "I cast my stuff and win" and the difference is more stylistic than anything else. In the world of Moon Stompy, NewMiracles and company though, the longer game plan may be better positioned favouring Grim Monolith builds over the all-in Chalice-at-1 builds.

Tumble Magnets, well, probably. It's colorless removal that works on basically anything. It's not a great card but it can be a roleplayer and probably intended to fight all those decks that cheat big things into play (Marit Lage, Emrakul, Grissy, etc.).

Thanks mate. This will help me to choose which version to play, regarding my local meta.

[Manipulato]

I've noticed that most lists don't run Warping Wail anymore. Why is that?

I think this is mainly because they need space for 2 Walking Ballista in the MD because of the rise of DnT & Elves.

[contra]

I think this is mainly because they need space for 2 Walking Ballista in the MD because of the rise of DnT & Elves.

I'm very happy with 1 wail main and 2 SB. I'll probably add a 3rd ballista main in place of a reshape - my last league I played against 3 DnT. I was running a 3/1 split of reshaper/revoker, but reshaper gives so much value against non-swords to plowshares decks.

List for reference:

4 Endless One
3 Walking Ballista
4 Eldrazi Mimic
3 Matter Reshaper
2 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
1 Endbringer
1 Oblivion Sower

1 Warping Wail
2 Dismember
4 Chalice of the Void
2 Umezawa's Jitte

4 Ancient Tomb
4 Cavern of Souls
3 City of Traitors
4 Eldrazi Temple
3 Eye of Ugin
2 Karakas
1 Mishra's Factory
4 Wasteland

Sideboard
1 Karakas
2 Ratchet Bomb
2 Sorcerous Spyglass
2 Thorn of Amethyst
2 Warping Wail
1 Trinisphere
4 Leyline of the Void
1 All Is Dust

[Darkness]

Hey all I am back for those who remember me, never sold my cards, gonna pick it up again as I have a new job. Expect insight from me soon!

[potatodavid]

Is there an eldrazi discord?

[Jorruk]

Hey all I am back for those who remember me, never sold my cards, gonna pick it up again as I have a new job. Expect insight from me soon!

Hi welcome back :)
I've been wondering where have you been, and I was waiting for your opinion about the deck in the new shaping meta.

I recently won a FNM (maybe 3 weeks ago) but I was lucky in my draw and the unluck of my opponents. (the best example is my infect opponent unable to find a single boost for 5 turns (!) )

[ksesler]

Hey all I am back for those who remember me, never sold my cards, gonna pick it up again as I have a new job. Expect insight from me soon!

Are you still planning on publishing a sideboard guide at some point?
Or, are you in the process of modifying one due to meta changes?

Thanks.
Keith

[TonTo]

No one's talking about Mengucci's article? :)

https://www.channelfireball.com/articles/my-legacy-deck-at-pro-tour-25-anniversary-eldrazi-stompy/

He played Eldrazi at PT25 and wrote a deck guide. I'm keen to give this list a whirl at my local Legacy tournament this weekend.

[Cave]

No one's talking about Mengucci's article? :)

https://www.channelfireball.com/articles/my-legacy-deck-at-pro-tour-25-anniversary-eldrazi-stompy/

He played Eldrazi at PT25 and wrote a deck guide. I'm keen to give this list a whirl at my local Legacy tournament this weekend.

The article didn't impress me, to be fair.
1. He played the go-to shell, so he doesn't have an interesting take on the deck or any relevant insight on the decklist, not even a tiny tech to pick up.
2. There's no report. He's like: "yeah, the deck is good, some have smashed with it, i played it, i had mild success and won't play it again, cya."
3. His sideboard guide is well done, if a bit incomplete, but he's said known stuff. Many users in this thread have done better.

[TonTo]

You don't need to be impressed by new tech or innovations. Just be comforted by the fact that the best player to ever touch this deck tested it and took it to the pro tour, and agrees that the stock list is basically perfect.

[ryscott85]

You don't need to be impressed by new tech or innovations. Just be comforted by the fact that the best player to ever touch this deck tested it and took it to the pro tour, and agrees that the stock list is basically perfect.

I seriously hope that you’re referring to Kai Budde and not Gooch..

[Cave]

You don't need to be impressed by new tech or innovations. Just be comforted by the fact that the best player to ever touch this deck tested it and took it to the pro tour, and agrees that the stock list is basically perfect.

1.Of course I don't need to be impressed about new teches and innovations, I didn't say that's all I care about. I said the article isn't a good read because he's not came up with innovations but also not reporting interesting gameplay informations or even caring to explain why the consensus list is "practically perfect".

2. No, I'm not comforted with Mengucci saying the stock list is good. The dude has won some online leagues then brought the deck to a tournament and didn't really do super well. He then wrote an article about it, but keeping extremely quiet about what didn't work for him. He also answered in the comments that he won't play the deck again. Lastly, he is not even remotely close to the best Eldrazi placement in the Pro Tour 25h. I'd rather read the comments of people who made top8 with the deck.

3. Me being impressed or comforted about the stock list has nothing to do with the fact that the article was a poor read and many people in this thread have written much more informative posts about Eldrazi stompy. I am a person whose job is reading and I like when I read good things. Of course I like the fact that the stock list is good, but I can realize that by myself clicking on any website that provides results.

4. Other reasons that seem to indicate the article is not worth reading may be:
a. You needing to point out that such article exists
b. Me being the only one who answered
c. You being able to accurately summarise the article in two sentences and a half ("He played the deck, he said it's perfect, he's got a SB guide")

Sorry if I seem harsh, but man, that answer was so simplicistic.

[cddungan]

A little innovation for our deck. Seems everyone is just playing stock lists and not trying something else.
We’re almost at the third page lol

http://i68.tinypic.com/2vtuy5x.jpg

[ChrisDissent]

A little innovation for our deck. Seems everyone is just playing stock lists and not trying something else.
We’re almost at the third page lol

http://i68.tinypic.com/2vtuy5x.jpg

Nice.
Why not the 4th Cavern of Souls ? Especially if you don't want your Scourges to be countered in the first place.
Does the Serum package work, providing more explosive hands ?

[cddungan]

Nice.
Why not the 4th Cavern of Souls ? Especially if you don't want your Scourges to be countered in the first place.
Does the Serum package work, providing more explosive hands ?

Need to make space for more utility lands. 3 Cavern of Souls is actually enough. The Scavenger Grounds are there as maindeck Graveyard hate plus you get to exile your Scourges which died naturally thru combat or got countered.

Yes, by my experience playing Eldrazi since its debut from OGW, the first 4 Turns and the opening hand defines how the game would flow. Serum Powder gives you better chances to draw a T1 Chalice hand or a very aggressive hand.

This aspect also improves your sideboarding as more Mulligan chances can ensure you have your sideboard cards for every specific matchup.

With Serum Powder, there’s a chance that you’ll have 8-9 cards in hand (including the Eternal Scourges which get exiled with the Powder)

Plus, you got maindeck answer to Blood Moon even if it is 3 mana to cast.

[Cryoclasm]

I am more interested in recent midrange list which TonyMontana is piloting.
I can see SoFaI and SoFaF in SB and wonder what matchups they are meant for.

[Cave]

I am more interested in recent midrange list which TonyMontana is piloting.
I can see SoFaI and SoFaF in SB and wonder what matchups they are meant for.

This is the eldrazi stompy thread. It's a fast-paced stompy deck that aims for quick disruption and unsustainable clock. The list you're referring to belongs to the Big Eldrazi archetype, a slower, ramp-oriented version that aims to overpower its opponent with stronger cards. You might wanna pay this thread (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?30579-BigEldrazi) a visit.

[jolssoni]

4 Ancient Tomb
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Chalice of the Void
2 City of Traitors
4 Eldrazi Mimic
4 Eldrazi Temple
2 Endbringer
4 Endless One
3 Eye of Ugin
2 Karakas
3 Matter Reshaper
2 Mishra's Factory
4 Reality Smasher
3 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Thought-Knot Seer
2 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Walking Ballista
4 Wasteland
Sideboard
1 All Is Dust
4 Leyline of the Void
2 Ratchet Bomb
2 Sorcerous Spyglass
4 Thorn of Amethyst
2 Warping Wail

Yay/nay?

[Manipulato]

4 Ancient Tomb
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Wasteland
4 Eldrazi Temple
3 Eye of Ugin
2 City of Traitors
2 Mishra's Factory
2 Karakas
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth

4 Chalice of the Void
4 Eldrazi Mimic
2 Endbringer
4 Endless One
3 Matter Reshaper
4 Reality Smasher
3 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Thought-Knot Seer
2 Umezawa's Jitte
4 Walking Ballista


Sideboard
1 All Is Dust
4 Leyline of the Void
2 Ratchet Bomb
2 Sorcerous Spyglass
4 Thorn of Amethyst
2 Warping Wail

Yay/nay?

I think 4 Walking Ballista are too many especially if you just run 2 City of Traitors and only 1 Urborg which is super helpful for taping Eye of Ugin for Ballista and it makes also Ancient Tomb not dead if your life total is very low. I personally play 2 Ballista 2 Dismember and I am very happy with this configuration since Dismember is a great tempo card and is the only card which gets rid of Angler, Goyf, Shadow or oposing Eldrazis, even a Batterskull token...

2 Karakas are a bit to many for my taste but if your´re meta is full of BR Reanimator/Sneak Show/Dark Depts than it´s reasonable of course. Sometimes you just have shitty hands with more than 2 non-colorless lands like Eye of Ugin + Karakas/Urborg which means just cant cast your stuff with colorless mana...

Otherwise the list looks ok and the sideboard has the usual stuff...

[mulder]

I'm a long time Eldrazi player and I seriously doubt this deck is still good enough... . I've been playing the deck the last year in every tournament and it simply feels lackluster compared to other decks.
It simply has so many poor to bad matchups: storm (unless you happen to draw chalice literally every time), infect, dredge, Show and Tell, any deck with Loam and/or Wasteland, Lands, aggro delver decks with Price of Progress maindeck, enchantress, Blood Moon decks, even Miracles is unfavorable since a lot of times they main board Back to Basics now, their SB is better than ours and Mentor is still a house... .
Chalice is a strong card, but more often than not, you won't see it unless it's already too late... . And even if you do play it early on, a lot of decks can still play around it.
With Assassin's Trophy looking to become a staple, Eldrazi gets even worse.

[wortwelt]

Wow, how did this thread fall all the way to the second page?

I took my list to the Win a Dual tournament No. 30 in Tübingen, Germany. 5-2, 9th of 66 players and pretty happy with everything.

List:
4 Eldrazi Mimic
4 Matter Reshaper
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
2 Endbringer
4 Endless One
4 Walking Ballista
2 Simian Spirit Guide

4 Chalice of the Void
2 Dismember

4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Ancient Tomb
3 City of Traitors
4 Cavern of Souls
3 Wasteland
3 Mishra's Factory
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Karakas
3 Eye of Ugin

SB
4 Thorn of Amethyst
4 Leyline of the Void
3 Sorcerous Spyglass
1 Ulamog, the Endless Hunger
1 Karn, Scion of Urza
2 Ratchet Bomb

In testing, we found that Ballista is very good right now, in our meta. Lots of DnT and decks that play Strixes. It also helps get the last few points of damage in, can be cast under Blood Moon etc. Since the deck becomes a little more mana hungry, we decided to cut a SSG for the 26th land, and we found that we want the third City - and to be honest, I think that mattered a lot. Yes, you get more land heavy draws, but I suddenly cared less if I was wastelanded and could more reliably activate Eye if games got long.

The games are a bit of a blur now, but I beat: Goblins, Miracles, Miracles, Maverick, and another blue deck, and lost to an unusual Storm list and Miracles with Main Back to Basics.

A few notables:

I made the mistake to put the Storm player on BUG since they T1 fetched for Tropical and Pondered, T2 land, T3 killed me. I win G2 off Thorn and a timely Ratchet Bomb that killed their LED and Petal. G3, I never get to play a turn.

I lost the deciding game against one Miracles Opponent because he had T3 B2B and Force for my T2 Thought-Knot. My hand was subpar and I should've mulled, but not sure if I ever can beat Miracles on the play with T2 force and T3 B2B.

Against a different Miracles opponent, in the deciding game, I got AK into Terminus'd with a TKS trigger on the stack. Saw a hand of 2x Swords, Force, Counterbalance, Counterspell, two lands with them at 4. I had a Cavern on Eldrazi, but two Ballista in hand. Took Counterspell, played the first ballista, which he had to force, and then proceeded to play the second ballista next turn, which was lethal. Ballistas are good.

I still love the deck, and since I keep getting fairly good results with it, I'll keep playing it.

[Hopo]

Yesterday I wanted to play something powerful for change and ended up sleeving my favorite iteration of eldrazi. This got me into top8 of Finnish legacy champs (82 or so players.)

My list is based on that sweet japanese decklist from about a year ago, ditching mimics and adding 6-drops and monoliths. I couldn't make my mind on what to cut to add a basic for Assassin's Trophy so maindeck is 61 cards. Many people play only 3 Cities but since so much of the decks power comes from that turn 1 disruption, I see no point in less than a playset.

Matchups:

R1 UB Shadow 0-2
R2 Sneak and Show 2-0
R3 Aluren 2-1
R4 Burn 2-0, opponent got very upset, borderline aggressive
R5 Eldrazi-post 2-0
R6 Miracles 2-1
R7 ID
Quarterfinal: UW Stoneblade 1-2

I sequenced a number of plays wrong, made a few suboptimal choices in combat and probably mulliganed a few times when I shouldn't have and vice versa. I also read a few sketchy situations correct and chose to play around the right, less obvious things a few times. All in all quite a solid run with my normal ups and downs. Deck was running smooth and I felt confident in most of the matchups. Back to Basics is something I hate to play against but the deck is perfectly capable of sculpting a game where BtB is mostly irrelevant.

The list:

4 Ancient Tomb
4 Cavern of Souls
4 City of Traitors
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Eye of Ugin
4 Wasteland
1 Karakas
1 Wastes
4 Endbringer
4 Reality Smasher
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Matter Reshaper
3 Oblivion Sower
2 Endless One
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Grim Monolith
3 Thorn of Amethyst
2 Sorcerous Spyglass

//Sideboard
SB: 2 Dismember
SB: 3 All Is Dust
SB: 4 Leyline of the Void
SB: 2 Ratchet Bomb
SB: 2 Warping Wail
SB: 2 Sorcerous Spyglass

[wortwelt]

My list is based on that sweet japanese decklist from about a year ago, ditching mimics and adding 6-drops and monoliths. I couldn't make my mind on what to cut to add a basic for Assassin's Trophy so maindeck is 61 cards. Many people play only 3 Cities but since so much of the decks power comes from that turn 1 disruption, I see no point in less than a playset.



I like that thinking :) Thanks for the report and list.

Didn't you miss Ballista at all? Also, how were the MD Thorns for you?

[mistercakes]

Nice.
Why not the 4th Cavern of Souls ? Especially if you don't want your Scourges to be countered in the first place.
Does the Serum package work, providing more explosive hands ?

Still playing this with the powders?

[Hopo]

I like that thinking :) Thanks for the report and list.

Didn't you miss Ballista at all? Also, how were the MD Thorns for you?

I don't see Ballista in this deck. It's not eldrazi so you can hardly cheat on mana. Same with Wurmcoil Engine, which is close to uncastable.

Thorns were ok. Either they ate Fow or bought time to take the game. Of course sometimes they are plain dead. Such is this game.

[Manipulato]

Had another 4:1 today at my LGS today, really enjoying this Deck.
I mulled alot and aggressiv but it worked out fine in the end. I wouldnt change anything right now because its just stone cold solid.
My draw luck left me alone in R4 vs my 2nd Elves oponent.

4 Eldrazi Mimic
4 Endless One
4 Matter Reshaper
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
3 Simian Spirit Guide
2 Walking Ballista
2 Endbringer

4 Chalice of the Void
2 Umezawa’s Jitte
2 Dismember

4 Ancient Tomb
3 City of Traitors
4 Eldrazi Temple
3 Eye of Ugin
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Wasteland
2 Mishra's Factory
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth

Sideboard
4 Leyline of the Void
4 Thorn of Amethyst
3 Ratchet Bomb
2 Sorcerous Spyglass
2 Warping Wail

Round 1: BR Reanimator 2:1
Round 2: Elves 2:1
Round 3: Mervolk 2:0
Round 4: Elves 0:2
Round 5: UB Death's Shadow 2:0
4:1

Round 1: BGW Pile 2:0
Round 2: DnT 2:0
Round 3: Big Eldrazi 2:1
Round 4: DnT 2:0
Round 5: Bant Enchantress 1:2
4:1

[wortwelt]

I don't see Ballista in this deck. It's not eldrazi so you can hardly cheat on mana. Same with Wurmcoil Engine, which is close to uncastable.



It's just that I changed my non-Monolith list to fit 4 Ballista and I never want to go back despite the fact that yes, they are not Eldrazi and I mostly cast them for X=1 or 2. I suppose Endbringer fills that role in the Monolith version, since you can cast it faster and more often? I'm just trying to make sense of the differences in the builds. On Wurmcoil, I'm absolutely with you.

[Hopo]

It's just that I changed my non-Monolith list to fit 4 Ballista and I never want to go back despite the fact that yes, they are not Eldrazi and I mostly cast them for X=1 or 2. I suppose Endbringer fills that role in the Monolith version, since you can cast it faster and more often? I'm just trying to make sense of the differences in the builds. On Wurmcoil, I'm absolutely with you.

Yes, Endbringer fulfills ~all your pinging needs. To me, this deck does broken things with undercosted massive threats and Ballista doesn't quite get there. You shouldn't be pinging weenies or bears, you should be running people over with powerful monsters. I can see this changing in different metagame but Ballista is close to useless with this mana base when you're facing those Anglers and Shadows all the time.

What it comes to this version of eldrazi aggro, your threats are bigger than in traditional aggro eldrazi and therefore more immune against fatal push and decay. 6-drops give you more game against Anglers and Tarmogoyfs while Monolith allows them to come to online very much ahead of curve. Monolith and Sower also give you resiliency against Blood Moon. You lose the fast mimic kills, though.

[Manipulato]

DtB again <3

[Gwathnar]

DtB again <3

That's why I love this deck. I need to update my list though.

[Captain Hammer]

Almost all of the Top 8s are from Eldrazi Post lists that play the Cloudpost manabase. Traditional Eldrazi lists (non Post lists) just aren’t as effective. So it seems silly that this thread gets bumped to DTB status despite its poor performance while Eldrazi Post thread that is responsible for all the Top 8 lists goes ignored.

https://www.mtggoldfish.com/metagame/legacy#paper

[Manipulato]

Almost all of the Top 8s are from Eldrazi Post lists that play the Cloudpost manabase. Traditional Eldrazi lists (non Post lists) just aren’t as effective. So it seems silly that this thread gets bumped to DTB status despite its poor performance while Eldrazi Post thread that is responsible for all the Top 8 lists goes ignored.

https://www.mtggoldfish.com/metagame/legacy#paper

I know what you mean but its not like the post version is responsible for 70% of the top 8s or something, the numbers are mixed yes but if you look at mtgtop8.com then you see 80% aggro versions for example

https://www.mtgtop8.com/archetype?a=553&meta=72&f=LE

[Hopo]

I played the deck quite badly last weekend but I really wanted to share that I got to play Sorcerous Spyglass when my opponent had 4 Verdant Catacombs in hand.

[Noloam_]

in what stompy universe is endbringer better than oblivion sower and balista better than jitte? 3 eyes over 4 eyes, lol people should do more testing,thats for sure.

i whould probably play an eldrazi post list these days, because there is not much need for the spirit guide (tempo is almost gone). something like this (with more smashers and less spyglasses i guess):

https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/1360118#paper

[TonTo]

Wb ;)

[Cryoclasm]

I played the deck quite badly last weekend but I really wanted to share that I got to play Sorcerous Spyglass when my opponent had 4 Verdant Catacombs in hand.

You've beaten me.
I only managed to hit 3 Polluted Delta when my opponent had 1 in hand and then drew 2 in the next 2 turns.

[Alex_UNLIMITED]

I update the thread with the last important results from Eldrazi (I'm thinking to buy again the cards that I miss to play it, even if this deck deluded me time ago).

Eldrazi Aggro from Teruya Kakumae: first place in GP Shizuoka and undefeated during the day 1.

1 Endbringer
1 Simian Spirit Guide
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
3 Oblivion Sower
4 Eldrazi Mimic
4 Endless One
4 Matter Reshaper
4 Reality Smasher
4 Thought-Knot Seer
2 Grim Monolith
2 Thorn of Amethyst
4 Chalice of the Void
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
3 City of Traitors
3 Eye of Ugin
3 Wastes
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Wasteland

Sideboard:
2 Thorn of Amethyst
3 Ratchet Bomb
2 Sorcerous Spyglass
3 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Leyline of the Void
1 Umezawa's Jitte

What do you think about the lack of Karakas, even with a maindeck Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger? I'm thinking about that may be better than a single Simian Spirit Guide.

[Warbeast]

I update the thread with the last important results from Eldrazi (I'm thinking to buy again the cards that I miss to play it, even if this deck deluded me time ago).

Eldrazi Aggro from Teruya Kakumae: first place in GP Shizuoka and undefeated during the day 1.

1 Endbringer
1 Simian Spirit Guide
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
3 Oblivion Sower
4 Eldrazi Mimic
4 Endless One
4 Matter Reshaper
4 Reality Smasher
4 Thought-Knot Seer
2 Grim Monolith
2 Thorn of Amethyst
4 Chalice of the Void
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
3 City of Traitors
3 Eye of Ugin
3 Wastes
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Wasteland

Sideboard:
2 Thorn of Amethyst
3 Ratchet Bomb
2 Sorcerous Spyglass
3 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Leyline of the Void
1 Umezawa's Jitte

What do you think about the lack of Karakas, even with a maindeck Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger? I'm thinking about that may be better than a single Simian Spirit Guide.


I like it kinda... I think the torn shouod be dismember in the American meta mayne even a warping wale over another card... Karakas woukd be cool but do you want 27 lands? Id cut a cavern personally but I'd also still play 25 lands total and play removal... The bridges in the board are sick tech vs sns sure if the omni kill you whatever but stopping Emmy and gdaddy is nice cause sns players know how to play against katakana now. So that leaves Reanimator and lands... Kinda....

[ryscott85]

I update the thread with the last important results from Eldrazi (I'm thinking to buy again the cards that I miss to play it, even if this deck deluded me time ago).

Eldrazi Aggro from Teruya Kakumae: first place in GP Shizuoka and undefeated during the day 1.

1 Endbringer
1 Simian Spirit Guide
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
3 Oblivion Sower
4 Eldrazi Mimic
4 Endless One
4 Matter Reshaper
4 Reality Smasher
4 Thought-Knot Seer
2 Grim Monolith
2 Thorn of Amethyst
4 Chalice of the Void
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
3 City of Traitors
3 Eye of Ugin
3 Wastes
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Wasteland

Sideboard:
2 Thorn of Amethyst
3 Ratchet Bomb
2 Sorcerous Spyglass
3 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Leyline of the Void
1 Umezawa's Jitte

What do you think about the lack of Karakas, even with a maindeck Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger? I'm thinking about that may be better than a single Simian Spirit Guide.

I like it a lot! Playtesting with it has been awesome. The more stable manabase and sowers are great against moon! My only real gripe with the 75 is it’s weakness to flyers. Several times I’ve had people land delvers against me and ride them to victory since I didn’t draw the jitte. The ratchet bombs are good, but often times felt too slow as a solution. Unlike noloam, I personally prefer more Endbringers though as they are great at picking off delvers and stalling large monsters that tend to end the game quickly.

[mistercakes]

What matchups are thorns not worth having?

Trying to understand the reason why people don't maindeck thorns with this. I expect some matchups don't warrant chalice + thorns, but curious to hear what those are.

Thanks

Elves
Mirror
Dnt
Others?

[neuhier]

What matchups are thorns not worth having?

Trying to understand the reason why people don't maindeck thorns with this. I expect some matchups don't warrant chalice + thorns, but curious to hear what those are.

Thanks

Elves
Mirror
Dnt
Others?

Thorns does not do anything against any creature based deck, like:
- Maverick
- NicFit
- Goblins
- Death's Shadow
- ...

Further more I think Thorn is not that useful against control decks (miracles, grixis control). It slows them down a bit, but usually they are set up to make their land drops. Especially Grixis Control will just play a Strix and sit behind it.

Last: What would you cut to put thorns in?

[mistercakes]

not sure, i'll have to jam some games first to see how often i bring them in.

is thorn really not good vs a deck like miracles, which wants to cantrip on average generally once per turn? they also have B2B which would then cost 4 mana. makes sense with grixis though.

was only thinking about it more because the steel stompy tends to run 8 prison effects maindeck.

[TLK]

Anyone see the Izzet Eldrazi list that just posted a 5-0?


3 Drowner of Hope
4 Eldrazi Mimic
4 Eldrazi Obligator
4 Eldrazi Skyspawner
3 Endless One
3 Matter Reshaper
4 Reality Smasher
4 Ruination Guide
4 Vile Aggregate

2 Dismember

4 Ancient Tomb
3 Cavern of Souls
4 Eldrazi Temple
3 Eye of Ugin
2 Island
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Shivan Reef
2 Volcanic Island


2 All is Dust
4 Leyline of the Void
2 Warping Wail
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Ratchet Bomb

[Begle1]

Anyone see the Izzet Eldrazi list that just posted a 5-0?


3 Drowner of Hope
4 Eldrazi Mimic
4 Eldrazi Obligator
4 Eldrazi Skyspawner
3 Endless One
3 Matter Reshaper
4 Reality Smasher
4 Ruination Guide
4 Vile Aggregate

2 Dismember

4 Ancient Tomb
3 Cavern of Souls
4 Eldrazi Temple
3 Eye of Ugin
2 Island
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Shivan Reef
2 Volcanic Island


2 All is Dust
4 Leyline of the Void
2 Warping Wail
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Ratchet Bomb


No stack or hand interaction at all maindeck, not even Thought-Knot Seer? Chalice, Wail, Leyline out of the sideboard, but still... Were his matchups all against Death and Taxes and slow control? If I was playing a combo deck and lost to this I'd feel pretty down on myself. Just have to beat a Chalice by like turn 4?

[wortwelt]

The new Ugin seems sweet for a slightly go bigger variant of the Stompy build. He protects himself, makes your follow ups cheaper and deals with problem permanents (missing on Ensnaring Bridge, which is kind of a bummer). I imagine a build with 3-4 Grim Monolith to be a good fit.

Ugin, the Ineffable - 6
Colorless spells you cast cost 2 less to cast.
+1: Exile the top card of your library face down and look at it. Create a 2/2 colorless Spirit creature token. When that token leaves the battlefield, put the exiled card in your hand.
-3: Destroy target permanent that's one or more colors.
Starting loyalty 4

[Barook]

Anyone see the Izzet Eldrazi list that just posted a 5-0?


3 Drowner of Hope
4 Eldrazi Mimic
4 Eldrazi Obligator
4 Eldrazi Skyspawner
3 Endless One
3 Matter Reshaper
4 Reality Smasher
4 Ruination Guide
4 Vile Aggregate

2 Dismember

4 Ancient Tomb
3 Cavern of Souls
4 Eldrazi Temple
3 Eye of Ugin
2 Island
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Shivan Reef
2 Volcanic Island


2 All is Dust
4 Leyline of the Void
2 Warping Wail
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Ratchet Bomb

That manabase looks like garbage. There is zero reason to run 4x Shivan Reef over a 4th copy of Cavern of Souls and filling up the rest of the slots with Unclaimed Territory.

[painhomoser]

My current list is above, we have a montly legacy with about 50 players. with rare exception I can stay into the top8.
Last 5 or 6 champs doing 5-1-1 or 6-1 (even a single 7-0 for the win)

doubts about the MD...

how many blast zones?
use or not basic waste?

4 Ancient Tomb
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Wasteland
3 City of traitors
3 Eye of Ugin
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Blast Zone

2 Dismember

4 Eldrazi Mimic
4 Endless one
4 Reality Smasher
4 Matter Reshaper
4 Thought-Knot Seer
3 Simian Spirit Guide
2 Lodestone Golem
2 Walking Ballista
1 Endbringer
1 Phyrexian Metamorph

4 Chalice of the Void
1 Umezawa's Jitte

SB

4 Leyline of the Void
3 Thorn of Amethyst
2 Sorcerous Spyglass
2 Ratchet bomb
1 Karakas
1 All is Dust
1 Warping Wail
1 Karn, Scion of Urza

[Troll_ov_Grimness]

Would anyone critique my list? I will be facing an unknown, really popular meta at Face in Montreal. I could face anything from Nic Fit, Maverick, Infect, Lands, Miracles, Elves, Death And Taxes, Omnishow... I've never seen any other Eldrazi players or Moon Stompy. But it's a really busy place with lots of players so I really need to be ready for anything I think.

4 Eldrazi Mimic
4 Matter Reshaper
4 Endless One
4 Thought-knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
2 Endbringer
3 Simian Spirit Guide
1 Ulamog, The Ceaseless Hunger

1 Dismember
2 Tangle Wire
1 Umezawa's Jitte
4 Chalice of the Void

4 Ancient Tomb
2 City Of Traitors
4 Eldrazi Temple
3 Eye of Ugin
1 Mishra's Factory
1 Urborg, Tomb Of Yawgmoth
1 Karakas
4 Wasteland
4 Cavern of Souls
2 Wastes

Sideboard,

2 Tumble Magnet
4 Leyline Of The Void
2 Ratchet Bomb
4 Thorn Of Amethyst
1 All Is Dust
2 Sorcerous Spyglass

Reasons,

* I don't like All Is Dust main deck. I think it's too slow against decks I want it for like Death And Taxes and Elves. I like that it can kill True Name. So it's a nice sideboard slot for me. What else is this card good for?

* I'm not sure I know the use of Tumble Magnet but it seems good against Show And Tell and Lands. Eldrazi is a fast deck so 3 counters can be a lot.

* Dismember and Jitte are one ofs. I had two slots in the deck that could have been Thorn Of Amethyst, Warping Wail, Walking Ballista, All Is Dust, Grim Monolith... I saw Tangle Wire in the primer and want to try it because I don't like those cards at least not in the main deck. I'm happy with 1 Jitte because I don't think the deck leans on it that much. I like Dismember to kill Gurmag and Delvers and stuff. But in my experience this deck doesn't need much removal either. I like Tangle Wire to slow my opponent down a bit while I proceed to smash.

* I really wanted to play 2 Wastes, against Back to Basics.. and I expect some people to play Assassin's Trophy. I also really love Mishra's Factory (I have black bordered Renaissance too). I really like the idea of playing 26 lands to cast the Ulamog and to slot in at least Factory.

* Ulamog. I'm not sure how good this is. Although it is castable off of 5 Sol lands and I can tutor it. Seems ok as a 1 of.

* I messed around with Blast Zone but I think it is too slow

* Oblivion Sower. This seems really relevant against Gurmag. And it can help cast Ulamog. Though I often lift up a bunch of fetchlands with it. This is another card I am really not sure about

[ESG]

Would anyone critique my list? I will be facing an unknown, really popular meta at Face in Montreal. I could face anything from Nic Fit, Maverick, Infect, Lands, Miracles, Elves, Death And Taxes, Omnishow... I've never seen any other Eldrazi players or Moon Stompy. But it's a really busy place with lots of players so I really need to be ready for anything I think.

Sure, I'll critique.

* All Is Dust can get rid of Solitary Confinement and Blood Moon. Moat, too, although Endbringer and getting up to seven mana to tutor up Ulamog can solve that. You could replace this with a Ratchet Bomb, which is better against Empty the Warrens and Back to Basics.

* Tangle Wire is interesting. I remember testing it a few years ago and deciding it was too slow, but if you have the slots, may as well give it whirl and see if it was worth it. If I were running this list, I'd probably replace it with two Sorcerous Spyglass because that card often impresses me. The fact it gives you information before you name is fantastic, and it's rarely a dead card. I most often name Wasteland. I'd also be tempted to play another copy of Endbringer and a one-of Walking Ballista.

* I've never been impressed with Mishra's Factory in this deck. Love the card, just not in this deck. I'd play either another Karakas, another Urborg, or another Wastes instead.

* Two Wastes aren't going to save you vs. Back to Basics, although they're good vs. Assassin's Trophy, Ghost Quarter, and Nic Fit. Sometimes Death & Taxes boards in Path to Exile to supplement Swords to Plowshares. Against Back to Basics, the plan is to simply play a Turn 2 Thought-Knot and snag it out their hand or get creatures on the board so you have a chance to win through it.

* Play Ulamog. It gives you inevitability at the cost of a single slot. Since this is traditional Stompy, I think one is enough.

* I agree on Blast Zone. The card is very good, but I don't think it belongs in this deck.

* Oblivion Sower is pretty bad unless you're willing to build around it. It usually hits fetchlands, so if you're running Sowers, you should play more copies of Urborg. It is nice with Leyline postboard, and it's good against Death & Taxes because they don't run fetchlands. If you're thinking you'll run into more Gurmags, then a second copy of Dismember might be worth it.

[Troll_ov_Grimness]

Sure, I'll critique.

* All Is Dust can get rid of Solitary Confinement and Blood Moon. Moat, too, although Endbringer and getting up to seven mana to tutor up Ulamog can solve that. You could replace this with a Ratchet Bomb, which is better against Empty the Warrens and Back to Basics.

* Tangle Wire is interesting. I remember testing it a few years ago and deciding it was too slow, but if you have the slots, may as well give it whirl and see if it was worth it. If I were running this list, I'd probably replace it with two Sorcerous Spyglass because that card often impresses me. The fact it gives you information before you name is fantastic, and it's rarely a dead card. I most often name Wasteland. I'd also be tempted to play another copy of Endbringer and a one-of Walking Ballista.

* I've never been impressed with Mishra's Factory in this deck. Love the card, just not in this deck. I'd play either another Karakas, another Urborg, or another Wastes instead.

* Two Wastes aren't going to save you vs. Back to Basics, although they're good vs. Assassin's Trophy, Ghost Quarter, and Nic Fit. Sometimes Death & Taxes boards in Path to Exile to supplement Swords to Plowshares. Against Back to Basics, the plan is to simply play a Turn 2 Thought-Knot and snag it out their hand or get creatures on the board so you have a chance to win through it.

* Play Ulamog. It gives you inevitability at the cost of a single slot. Since this is traditional Stompy, I think one is enough.

* I agree on Blast Zone. The card is very good, but I don't think it belongs in this deck.

* Oblivion Sower is pretty bad unless you're willing to build around it. It usually hits fetchlands, so if you're running Sowers, you should play more copies of Urborg. It is nice with Leyline postboard, and it's good against Death & Taxes because they don't run fetchlands. If you're thinking you'll run into more Gurmags, then a second copy of Dismember might be worth it.


I guess I'll move my two Sorcerous Spyglass to the main deck. What else could I put in my sideboard to replace it?

[ESG]

I guess I'll move my two Sorcerous Spyglass to the main deck. What else could I put in my sideboard to replace it?

How about Warping Wail? That's pretty flexible. If you want more graveyard interaction, Faerie Macabre would be fine to add. If you want to shore up the matchup vs. Show and Tell, I like Ashen Rider.

[painhomoser]

Would anyone critique my list? I will be facing an unknown, really popular meta at Face in Montreal. I could face anything from Nic Fit, Maverick, Infect, Lands, Miracles, Elves, Death And Taxes, Omnishow... I've never seen any other Eldrazi players or Moon Stompy. But it's a really busy place with lots of players so I really need to be ready for anything I think.

4 Eldrazi Mimic
4 Matter Reshaper
4 Endless One
4 Thought-knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
2 Endbringer
3 Simian Spirit Guide
1 Ulamog, The Ceaseless Hunger

1 Dismember
2 Tangle Wire
1 Umezawa's Jitte
4 Chalice of the Void

4 Ancient Tomb
2 City Of Traitors
4 Eldrazi Temple
3 Eye of Ugin
1 Mishra's Factory
1 Urborg, Tomb Of Yawgmoth
1 Karakas
4 Wasteland
4 Cavern of Souls
2 Wastes

Sideboard,

2 Tumble Magnet
4 Leyline Of The Void
2 Ratchet Bomb
4 Thorn Of Amethyst
1 All Is Dust
2 Sorcerous Spyglass

Reasons,

* I don't like All Is Dust main deck. I think it's too slow against decks I want it for like Death And Taxes and Elves. I like that it can kill True Name. So it's a nice sideboard slot for me. What else is this card good for?

* I'm not sure I know the use of Tumble Magnet but it seems good against Show And Tell and Lands. Eldrazi is a fast deck so 3 counters can be a lot.

* Dismember and Jitte are one ofs. I had two slots in the deck that could have been Thorn Of Amethyst, Warping Wail, Walking Ballista, All Is Dust, Grim Monolith... I saw Tangle Wire in the primer and want to try it because I don't like those cards at least not in the main deck. I'm happy with 1 Jitte because I don't think the deck leans on it that much. I like Dismember to kill Gurmag and Delvers and stuff. But in my experience this deck doesn't need much removal either. I like Tangle Wire to slow my opponent down a bit while I proceed to smash.

* I really wanted to play 2 Wastes, against Back to Basics.. and I expect some people to play Assassin's Trophy. I also really love Mishra's Factory (I have black bordered Renaissance too). I really like the idea of playing 26 lands to cast the Ulamog and to slot in at least Factory.

* Ulamog. I'm not sure how good this is. Although it is castable off of 5 Sol lands and I can tutor it. Seems ok as a 1 of.

* I messed around with Blast Zone but I think it is too slow

* Oblivion Sower. This seems really relevant against Gurmag. And it can help cast Ulamog. Though I often lift up a bunch of fetchlands with it. This is another card I am really not sure about


Hello fellows, I use 2 dismember in the MD because I think that gurmag and stoneforge must be answer in the act, so 2 removal is enough IMO, no less than 2... wire is VERY NICE,, but too slow for us... every non-eldrazi card must do some AMAZING shit to be in our MD, because temple and eye are bad to cast. ill pass tangle wire if I were you. the MD slot could be warping wail and dismember, 1 jitte is enough,,,

If you want to use ulamog I recommend using grim monolith in tangle wire slot, 2 in the MD solve a lot of moon issues, the only problems left are wastelock and b2b, that a well done tks can solve.

26 lands is way too much IMO,,, i got flooded alot and stay in 24, there's gonna be games that a wasteland and a rishadan port will break you apart, but thats magic.

To use oblivion sower,,, 2 urborg is the right number, its a nice play indeed, the /8 body is perfect if you face gurmag and or tarmogoyf

[redtwister]

I've been thinking about Eldrazi Stompy because of the rapid transformations in Legacy. I was a DnT player for years and moved onto Humans in the last quarter of last year (yes, there is a legacy Humans build, it was doing well, IMO better than DnT over the last 8-10 months), but Wrenn and Six+Plague Engineer makes me sad and I have felt like fair creature decks are now being forced toward being more aggressive. Humans is actually quite good at that, but relies on too many synergies and little creatures, as does DnT. I think those cards are significantly less impressive against Eldrazi, and those two slightly unfavorable matches will be less common. Plus, none of the W6 decks outside of Lands are running Wasteland since the mana is too greedy already.

Up front, I have no interest in playing Eldrazi Post. I've played against it, it is fine, but it is a glorified Tron deck and I have some small amount of dignity left.

Just a note on W vs. Colorless right now, I like the positioning of Eldrazi Displacer and the white sideboard options. It obviously has risks, since this list can't use Eye of Ugin, and probably eschews maindeck All Is Dust, Endbringer, and a choice between Matter Reshaper and Eldrazi Mimic. Ulamog is also probably a bit much.

I saw this list on MTGTop8 and it feels like this is an interesting starting place.

25 LANDS
4 Ancient Tomb
3 Cavern of Souls
3 City of Traitors
4 Eldrazi Temple
3 Karakas
5 Plains
3 Wasteland

25 CREATURES
2 Containment Priest
4 Eldrazi Displacer
4 Reality Smasher
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Walking Ballista

10 OTHER SPELLS
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Mox Diamond
2 Smuggler's Copter
1 Umezawa's Jitte

SIDEBOARD
1 Containment Priest
2 Disenchant
1 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Leyline of the Void
1 Palace Sentinels
1 Sorcerous Spyglass
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Thorn of Amethyst

Probably to Definitely Out:
Sideboard
Leyline of the Void: Less than 3 seems bad, but do you really want 4? I think with Karakas, Priest and Displacer, it would just be better if those were RiPs. -2

Palace Sentinels: Do you want Monarch that badly with no cool exile/removal effect? At least Palace Jailer synergizes with Displacer. -1

Ethersworn Canonist: With 4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben, 4 Chalice, and 2 Containment Priest main, 2 Thorn and another Priest in the side, what is this lonely mug doing here? If you worry that much about fast combo, maybe just play a miser Mindbreak Trap? -1

Probably to Definitely In:
Sideboard, there are 4 slots
Rest in Peace +2
Ugin, the Ineffable +1
Sorcerous Spyglass +1

So far, this is what I have:
25 LANDS
4 Ancient Tomb
3 Cavern of Souls
3 City of Traitors
4 Eldrazi Temple
3 Karakas
5 Plains
3 Wasteland

25 CREATURES
2 Containment Priest
4 Eldrazi Displacer
4 Reality Smasher
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Walking Ballista
3 Thalia, Heretic of Cathar

10 OTHER SPELLS
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Mox Diamond
2 Smuggler's Copter
1 Umezawa's Jitte

SIDEBOARD
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Disenchant
2 Rest in Peace
2 Sorcerous Spyglass
2 Thorn of Amethyst
1 Ugin, the Ineffable
1 Containment Priest
1 Sword of Fire and Ice

[ESG]

Hey, redtwister, there's a separate thread for White Eldrazi (the OP called it Thalia Stompy), so you might get more action there:

http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?30943-Thalia-Stompy

Given your background as a Death & Taxes enthusiast, I can see why that version would be appealing. Since I've played all the Eldrazi variations, I'll give you my two cents on the list you propose.

I like 4 Wastelands in this deck. It's very aggressive, and the fact you can tag fetchlands with your Wastelands makes them stronger than normal. It's also important to keep an opposing Karakas off the board. I would trim a City of Traitors, since it's pretty bad in multiples. City should always be the last land you play. I liked playing 1 Eye of Ugin in the deck, but I favored Matter Reshaper over Smuggler's Copter. I also wasn't playing as many Walking Ballista. I preferred a Stoneforge Mystic package instead. Eye is obviously weaker and an easy cut when you have fewer Eldrazi. I think 2 Karakas can be better than 3 Karakas, for the same reasons that it's poor in multiples. Some metagames obviously want more copies due to, say, a lot of Turbo Depths.

I played the Containment Priest + Eldrazi Displacer + Palace Jailer trio for a while but didn't get the results I wanted.

Containment Priest is pretty unimpressive alone. It excels against Elves and Reanimator. Sneak and Show usually wins this matchup by Showing in an Omniscience and casting Emrakul, so Containment Priest is good but often not game-winning. Against Death & Taxes, I actually found Containment Priest to be a liability due to Flickerwisps. I found it pretty dead in other matchups. Assembling the combo isn't that difficult, but it's easily broken up by removal. I ended up devoting the slots to the Stoneforge package.

The WW can make Palace Jailer difficult to cast, so that may be why that other pilot ran Palace Sentinels. Jailer is fantastic in some matchups, and in other matchups it can backfire. Any matchup with flying creatures or True-Name Nemesis is challenging. You don't want to lose the monarch status.

Displacer lost its luster when Baleful Strix and Leovold were everywhere, so it's likely better-positioned now. Strix was also a big reason why Jailer got worse.

For the sideboard, Rest in Peace is excellent and Sorcerous Spyglass is flexible, so those are good additions. I wouldn't run Leyline of the Void. Maybe that pilot expected a lot of BR Reanimator? I'm skeptical about Ugin, since 6 mana is pretty steep. Some versions of this deck ran 3 Reality Smasher instead of 4 because of the curve, and Ugin doesn't benefit from Eldrazi Temple. I guess try it and see.

I agree that Mindbreak Trap is better than Ethersworn Canonist in that situation. Most of the deck's interaction is permanent-based, and Storm usually shaves discard postboard to bring in Abrupt Decay and bounce spells. Also, Storm is usually a very favorable matchup, and the most likely way to lose would be for them to Turn 1 you, which would lose to a Mindbreak Trap.

[painhomoser]

Hey, redtwister, there's a separate thread for White Eldrazi (the OP called it Thalia Stompy), so you might get more action there:

http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?30943-Thalia-Stompy

Given your background as a Death & Taxes enthusiast, I can see why that version would be appealing. Since I've played all the Eldrazi variations, I'll give you my two cents on the list you propose.

I like 4 Wastelands in this deck. It's very aggressive, and the fact you can tag fetchlands with your Wastelands makes them stronger than normal. It's also important to keep an opposing Karakas off the board. I would trim a City of Traitors, since it's pretty bad in multiples. City should always be the last land you play. I liked playing 1 Eye of Ugin in the deck, but I favored Matter Reshaper over Smuggler's Copter. I also wasn't playing as many Walking Ballista. I preferred a Stoneforge Mystic package instead. Eye is obviously weaker and an easy cut when you have fewer Eldrazi. I think 2 Karakas can be better than 3 Karakas, for the same reasons that it's poor in multiples. Some metagames obviously want more copies due to, say, a lot of Turbo Depths.

I played the Containment Priest + Eldrazi Displacer + Palace Jailer trio for a while but didn't get the results I wanted.

Containment Priest is pretty unimpressive alone. It excels against Elves and Reanimator. Sneak and Show usually wins this matchup by Showing in an Omniscience and casting Emrakul, so Containment Priest is good but often not game-winning. Against Death & Taxes, I actually found Containment Priest to be a liability due to Flickerwisps. I found it pretty dead in other matchups. Assembling the combo isn't that difficult, but it's easily broken up by removal. I ended up devoting the slots to the Stoneforge package.

The WW can make Palace Jailer difficult to cast, so that may be why that other pilot ran Palace Sentinels. Jailer is fantastic in some matchups, and in other matchups it can backfire. Any matchup with flying creatures or True-Name Nemesis is challenging. You don't want to lose the monarch status.

Displacer lost its luster when Baleful Strix and Leovold were everywhere, so it's likely better-positioned now. Strix was also a big reason why Jailer got worse.

For the sideboard, Rest in Peace is excellent and Sorcerous Spyglass is flexible, so those are good additions. I wouldn't run Leyline of the Void. Maybe that pilot expected a lot of BR Reanimator? I'm skeptical about Ugin, since 6 mana is pretty steep. Some versions of this deck ran 3 Reality Smasher instead of 4 because of the curve, and Ugin doesn't benefit from Eldrazi Temple. I guess try it and see.

I agree that Mindbreak Trap is better than Ethersworn Canonist in that situation. Most of the deck's interaction is permanent-based, and Storm usually shaves discard postboard to bring in Abrupt Decay and bounce spells. Also, Storm is usually a very favorable matchup, and the most likely way to lose would be for them to Turn 1 you, which would lose to a Mindbreak Trap.

I tried to use W eldrazi once, the deck by itself is great, my only "problem" with the deck is Mox diamond, if u keep a hand with 3 lands and 1 mox, u become very suscetive to wasteland, because the mox only add 1 mana, we always prefer multiples mana lands. thalia 2.0 is awesome and the gaga package is optimal, personally after 2 legacy events (both getting top8 with the deck) I rolled back to eldrazi stompy.. I really like the aggro of mimic/endless into tks/smasher.

the taxes of thalia we can have with a harder body (lodestone golem). but its just my personal play style, if you are used to DaT or prefer this midrange style, the deck can be very good in the midrange ground.

I think that can be awesome if you just trade 3 ballista 2 copter for 3 gaga + jitte + batterskull

equipment is a pain and can rally game on its own

equip batterskull into an alien and the game its over

[redtwister]

@ESG, painhomoser

Thank you both for all of that feedback. When I saw Barook as a contrib, I figured this was a good thread, if a little less active. I feel like Discord is sort of killing forums, but if you know of a Discord, I'll poke around there too.

Orim67 has been running his specific W Stompy list with some success and Eric Landon had a lovely 5-0 with it on his Twitch.

I am definitely torn between this prison-ish build and the straight aggro build. The only thing I am sure of is the need to fight through the new 4c world + combo. I think both decks do well against Miracles, which still is favored against 4c Control, Delver, and probably Snow Control. Big and fast seems like the best option for a fair Magic player like me who feels a little queasy playing U.dec. I've never warmed to Brainstorm/FoW decks even though I love tempo and control in Standard and Modern because I really love Prison strategies more than anything. My two favorite Magic cards are Chalice of the Void and Aether Vial.

One card choice: Ugin, the Ineffable might be a bit greedy, but n the grindy matches, I feel like a 6 mana card advantage engine that deletes their removal and says "Eldrazi cost 2 less to cast" and can also straight kill Jace is pretty solid .

Not sure why Orim67 went away from SfM, but it was a pretty bad card for a while in the land of K-Command. Maybe it has regained it's threat level.

If I go straight aggro, I'll be back!

[Troll_ov_Grimness]

2nd place finish ,

4 ancient tomb
2 city of traitors
4 eldrazi temple
3 eye of ugin
4 cavern of souls
1 Karakas
1 urborg tomb of yawgmoth
1 wastes
3 wasteland
2 mishra’s factory
4 Eldrazi mimic
4 matter reshaper
4 endless one
4 thought knot seer
4 reality smasher
2 endbringer
2 walking ballista
3 simian spirit guide
4 chalice of the void
2 dismember
2 umezawa’s jitte

Side,

3 Ratchet Bomb
1 karn scion of urza
4 leyline of the void
3 thorn of amethyst
2 tumble magnet
2 sorcerous spyglass

My next tournament was a 4th place finish, I made a couple minor changes , I replaced mishra’s factory with blast zone and walking ballista with Ratchet Bomb. I played 1 Ratchet Bomb in side with 2 warping wail

I was unhappy with blast zone and the ratchet bomb. I hoped to face more delver decks and didn’t. My meta is below. So now the slots I’ve been adjusting are mishra’s factory back in the main, blast zones out. 2 all is dust 2 Ratchet Bomb out and put back into the side . Warping wail out of the side.

What I faced on the two days,

Deaths shadow
Miracles
Moon stompy
UR delver
Turbo Depths
Dredge
Nic fit

I lost only to Nic fit and a deck I don’t know how describe it was playing delver mongoose and hexdrinker and random stuff

I’m going to try to see if I can play again next Sunday.

Why are people playing walking ballista? Casting it uncounterable off of a cavern of souls seems really good I guess. 4 mana with Eldrazi temple and eye of ugin in the deck seems really difficult. I don’t play many sol lands that can cast it early

[ESG]

2nd place finish ...

My next tournament was a 4th place finish ...

Sweet! Those are good finishes. Can you give some details about how your games went? What colors were the Nic Fit deck? Did the Mongoose deck just Wasteland you out of the game?

[Troll_ov_Grimness]

I don’t have any more details my memory sucks.

Last week I played again. I came in 5th so I didn’t make top 4 this time and won no prizes but I came really close. I still went 3-1 but was paired down.

My decklist was virtually the same except I decided to play 3 Ratchet Bomb in my side with a couple main all is dust.

I lost round 1 against miracles. I made a stupid mistake one game I had a mishra’s factory , endless one , and jitte. I had a low life total and equipped my summoning sick endless one. He had some mentor tokens left over after I killed the mentor. Had I attacked with my jitte it would have saved me. So anyway

I beat burn , Lands, and dredge. I don’t think the Lands player had tabernacle it seemed kind of budget with with riftstone portal

[Troll_ov_Grimness]

3-1 again. Made top 4. Here is what I played against,

Miracles
BYE
Painter
Hexmage/Depths

I don’t remember if I went 0-2 or 1-2 in the miracles matchup but lost. Against painter and hexmage/Depths I went 2-0 and that secured me top 4 in the tie breaker

In top 4 I played against miracles again and lost

[GreatWhale]

So is everyone back on 2017 Eldrazi? I was playing Eldrazi Post and now recently went back to pure aggro Eldrazi and just went undefeated 4-0 at my weekly last night. I was on 3 wastes and 2 grim monoliths, otherwise pretty generic Eldrazi Stompy.

Beat:
2-0 Snow White? - 4c Snow with mentors - Played a ton of TKS eventually he stabilized but I played Walking Ballista for lethal, second game Spyglass on wasteland and wrenn and six, eye of ugin for Ulamog and he conceded
2-0 BUG Delver - Don't remember the first game, second game cast Ulamog and he conceded
2-0 Elves - Turn 1 Chalice he concedes (later said he kept a 1 lander with a mana dork), game two he Natural Orders for Cratorhoof and I activate blast zone to wipe his 1 drops
2-0 Dark Depths - Slow Depths BG with Life from the Loam - Game 1 mimic into TKS to take his hexmage, he crop rots for the token but doesn't make it, I top deck wasteland for win. Game 2 I beat down with mimic he can't find wasteland or stage and I eventually kill him.

Deck felt great, fast clock with good disruption is always good.

[grokh]

Hi,

I just played against Eldrazi on cockatrice and he played this creature :

https://img.scryfall.com/cards/large/front/b/3/b34bf7fd-9fe3-43e2-8cfe-7ce7cff08afe.jpg

Dunno if it has been discussed yet, but this seems huge in this deck, nope ?

[H]

Long time no posts. Since this is now in the Decks to Beat, here is an updated list.

7-1 list from Yamakiller (https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/2894397):

4 Eldrazi Mimic
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
4 Endless One
4 Matter Reshaper
4 Reality Smasher
4 Thought-Knot Seer
2 Walking Ballista

3 Dismember
3 Once Upon a Time
4 Chalice of the Void

4 Ancient Tomb
4 Cavern of Souls
2 City of Traitors
4 Eldrazi Temple
3 Eye of Ugin
3 Mishra's Factory
4 Wasteland

Sideboard
4 Leyline of the Void
2 Ratchet Bomb
2 Sorcerous Spyglass
4 Thorn of Amethyst
1 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Warping Wail

Interesting to now see 3 Dismembers, along with ESGs and OuaTs.

[ESG]

Makes sense. Once Upon a Time is very good at finding a double land, a Thought-Knot Seer, or a Reality Smasher. This deck usually ran Simian Spirit Guide to enable Turn 1 Chalice more reliably, but the color of mana wasn't particularly important. Now it's useful to have green in order to play a Once Upon a Time drawn after the first turn, so Elvish Spirit Guide replaces Simian Spirit Guide. Dismember kills most creatures in Legacy, including problematic ones like Knight of the Reliquary and Batterskull, and it's strong in the mirror.

Thanks for the update, H.

[kinda]

I know losing chalice is huge, but I'm wondering if it's possible to fit the companion Keruga, the Macrosage in here.

The 4 leyline of the void plus 4 Karn the great creator (to get helm of obedience to win) might be too cute...but leylines do let you draw cards with keruga, lurrus is in literally the majority of decks, and karn is the only good thing vs. zirda I can think of.


4 Matter Reshaper
4 Reality Smasher
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Trinisphere
4 Leyline of the Void
4 Karn, the Great Creator
3 Dismember
1 Tireless Tracker

4 Ancient Tomb
2 City of Traitors
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Eldrazi Temple
1 Eye of Ugin
4 Bayou
4 Llanowar Wastes
1 Overgrown Tomb

SB
1 Keruga, the Macrosage
1 Helm of Obedience
1 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Mycosynth Lattice
1 Sorcerous Spyglass
1 Walking Ballista
1 Tree of Tales
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Ratchet Bomb
3 Null Rod (I know but seems worth it for some matches like Zirda/Gyruda)
3 Toxic Deluge

[kinda]

ThrabenU went positive with a Keruga Eldrazi list close to the one in the above post: https://youtu.be/GLB38jmgeeo. He included crystalline giant too though.

[Sardukar]

Let's shake this Thread.
Last week i played 3-0-1 with this list:
4 Eldrazi Mimic
3 Matter Reshaper
4 Eldrazi Displacer
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
4 Endless One
1 Endbringer
4 Plague Engineer

4 Lotus Petal
4 Chalice of the Void

2 Karakas
4 Eldrazi Temple
3 Eye of Ugin
2 Wasteland
4 Caves of Koilos
4 Ancient Tomb
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Cavern of Souls

Side:
4 Oblivion Ring
4 Leyline of the Void
3 Eliminate
2 Sorcerous Spyglass
2 Thorn of Amethyst

Matches:
UG Omnitell 2-1
Burn 2-1
Eldrazi Aggro 2-1
Maverick 1-1

Liked this BW version, i think in present metagame it's not bad choice

[joaquin]

I actually really like this BW list. I'm also a fan of the GW list that runs once upon a time. How has this deck felt to play? What are it's best and worst matchups? I've been thinking of building it for a while now.

[Sardukar]

I didnt play enought to analize good and bad matches really) i think combo is not bad for us and tribals as i play with 4 engineers
Tomorrow i will try list with 4 thalia in main and engineers in side

[Sardukar]

Yesterday i went 3-1 with same list, but with 4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben in main instead of 4 engineers. 3 engineers i put in side instead Eliminate.

2-1 Ug Omni
2-0 Red Prizon
1-2 RuG Delver
2-0 Elves

Thalia was very good with combo. You can play it on 1st turn. Rug is one of hardest matches i think.. maybe i will try 2 swords in side. With elves Chalice is very powerful on Turn 1. I didnt see engineers in second game, but chalice and TKS won this game easy.