[Primer] Eldrazi Stompy

[Noloam_]

Burn is a hard matchup, but my general experience beating it has either been t1 lock piece into t2 thought knot pulling PoP or fireblast, or landing chalice for 2 and stabilizing. Chalice for 1 is great if u are on the play. In games 2 and 3 u will want chalice more on 2 just for smash to smithereens in addition to the usual targets.

Indeed. It can be hard. Boarding in sphere of resistances + thorns on the play also does the trick. You should mull a lot of hands with ancient tombs, is my experience

[Deckerator]

First of all thanks to Barook for this amazing list.
I played it today at a small Local event with about ~25 people and ended top 4. :)
We played 5 rounds and then played top 8. We splitted top 4 at the end.

1. Round: Burn 2:1
2. Round: Elves 2:0 MVP: All is Dust. He played Natural Order into Progenitus. On my turn All is Dust...gg :D
3. Round BUG Delver 2:0
4. Round Aggro Loam 2:1 MVP: All is Dust
5. Round Nic Fit, ID we played afterwards. I won both matches on the back of two early Reality Smashers

Top8:
1. Round: Eldrazi Mirror 2:0 MVP Eldrazi Displacer + Jitte

Then Top 4 split
I love this list and i prefer it over the colorless list because Eldrazi Displacer is such a bomb

[Barook]

First of all thanks to Barook for this amazing list.
As much as I love praise as the next guy, people give we me way too much credit for my list. I'm thankful that you enjoy my list and have success with it. :laugh:

@maraxusofkelds: Are fast PoP/Fireblast kills bad for us? Yes, definitely - that's our main way to lose. It's mainly a dance on the razor's edge vs Burn and those matches are often won in the 1-2 life range. I can't really comment on the overall quality of Burn players that talked to me, but what surprised me most is that they (aka the common Burn player) fear us more than we fear them due to our lock pieces and fast clock to race them. And i found that insight pretty interesting.

[xArabOfficerx]

As much as I love praise as the next guy, people give we me way too much credit for my list. I'm thankful that you enjoy my list and have success with it. :laugh:

@maraxusofkelds: Are fast PoP/Fireblast kills bad for us? Yes, definitely - that's our main way to lose. It's mainly a dance on the razor's edge vs Burn and those matches are often won in the 1-2 life range. I can't really comment on the overall quality of Burn players that talked to me, but what surprised me most is that they (aka the common Burn player) fear us more than we fear them due to our lock pieces and fast clock to race them. And i found that insight pretty interesting.

I've switched back to your list after trying out colorless a bit. Yes it is explosive, but it just doesn't have strong enough answers against match-ups that are questionable. Lands for example with Displacer, just makes me wish I had Displacer always. I've noticed you went back to Brushlands? Any reason for that than the Corrupted Crossroads?

[Noloam_]

i want to ask you all about your experiences with displacer vs lands? one of my friends is an experienced lands player. i dont see how displacer will do the trick. they end of turn tap your lands with r.port and make a swing for lethal in his turn. the deck also plays a lot of decays these days.

[maraxusofkelds]

i want to ask you all about your experiences with displacer vs lands? one of my friends is an experienced lands player. i dont see how displacer will do the trick. they end of turn tap your lands with r.port and make a take, swing for lethal in his turn. the deck also plays a lot of decays these days.

If they have it they have it. My strategy vs lands is to bring in all 4 leylines or bust like vs reanimator to shut off their loam and punishing fire engine. If I am on the play, I mull hard for a t1 chalice or leyline. Lands is extremely slow without their loam engine, so I just try to race them and force them to draw into both thespian and dark depths in addition to port, which chances are they wont have all 3 without loam letting filter through their decks hard. If we include karakas, they would need exactly all 4 of waste land and port and thespian and dark depths all together to deal with any of our karakas and displacers.

I bring in needles, my last displacer, world breakers, and all 4 leylines vs this matchup. They have 0 tools to deal with leyline. Game 1 is a crapshoot depending on if i get to go first and land t1 chalice, or they just dont draw loam.

[Noloam_]

If they have it they have it. My strategy vs lands is to bring in all 4 leylines or bust like vs reanimator to shut off their loam and punishing fire engine. If I am on the play, I mull hard for a t1 chalice or leyline. Lands is extremely slow without their loam engine, so I just try to race them and force them to draw into both thespian and dark depths in addition to port, which chances are they wont have all 3 without loam letting filter through their decks hard. If we include karakas, they would need exactly all 4 of waste land and port and thespian and dark depths all together to deal with any of our karakas and displacers.

I bring in needles, my last displacer, world breakers, and all 4 leylines vs this matchup. They have 0 tools to deal with leyline. Game 1 is a crapshoot depending on if i get to go first and land t1 chalice, or they just dont draw loam.

yes i know. my plan is the noloam plan: hope you dont get loam locked and aggro them before they can kill you XD

yes the multiple karakas plan does seem great. im also interessted about how worldbreaker rocks this match. it seems like a very expensive card in that matchup.



i almost forgot about lands tbh. i played 2 times against esper stoneblade and 1 vs shardless yesterday and still managed to go 5-0. shardless and esper is all i worry about online

[metronome2charisma]

i want to ask you all about your experiences with displacer vs lands? one of my friends is an experienced lands player. i dont see how displacer will do the trick. they end of turn tap your lands with r.port and make a swing for lethal in his turn. the deck also plays a lot of decays these days.

here is my list as of yesterday.


4 Ancient Tomb
3 City of Traitors
4 Eldrazi Temple
3 Eye of Ugin
3 Cavern of Souls
2 Corrupted Crossroads
2 mishras factory
2 karakas
1 waste
1 urborg ,tomb of yawgmoth

4 Eldrazi Mimic
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
3 Endless One
3 Eldrazi Displacer
3 matter reshaper
2 endbringer
1 world beaker

4 Chalice of the Void
3 Lotus Petal
1 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Warping Wail
1 Dismember

Sideboard:
2 phyrexian revokers
2 Thorn of Amethyst
1 Dismember
1 Warping Wail
4 Leyline of the Void
2 All Is Dust
1 World Breaker
1 waste
1 oblivion sower

SO as you can see my list is set up to deal with lands a little better than most just because it pretty popular in pa/ny/nj area . Essentially what I've been doing is mulliganing to the leyline ( Which has actually been a mantra of mine since i began to understand the importance of actually doing it and not just having leyline in your deck.) But even beyond that having displacers,karakas, and end bringers and in my case world breaker have all been super good. and i have had all of them win me games against lands. Also don't be afraid to sandbag a karakas if you can. Its actually been a winning line for me a couple times which is why i bring it up.
Lands is a hard matchup but being able to untap with displacer in play is huge (or end bringer) Chalice is really good in this matchup unless they turn1 exploration ,Then you're better off waiting to set the chalice at 2 so they have to decay the chalice before they can loam lock you.
I also bring in oblivion sower , it works well with leyline and sometimes can just give you the dark depths/stage combo which is sweet!
One last thing . MULLIGAN TO THE LEYLINE. Its very important.

[Eldariel]

@maraxusofkelds: Are fast PoP/Fireblast kills bad for us? Yes, definitely - that's our main way to lose. It's mainly a dance on the razor's edge vs Burn and those matches are often won in the 1-2 life range. I can't really comment on the overall quality of Burn players that talked to me, but what surprised me most is that they (aka the common Burn player) fear us more than we fear them due to our lock pieces and fast clock to race them. And i found that insight pretty interesting.

I've dabbled with both decks, and the match-up is a strange one. Eldrazi have Chalice and TKS (and potentially Jitte) while Burn has PoP. Generally Chalice/Equipment-decks are strong vs. Burn, but the fact that Eldrazi generally want at least 3 lands in play to do their stuff and all the lands are non-basic including painlands makes PoP so good that they can win even through Chalice at 1. However, TKS can nab PoP, which is on average game-winning (if they only have 1). They can rarely afford to kill TKS in spite of the death effect; only if Grim Lavamancer is in play and even then I'd only do it with Searing Blaze/Searing Blood. The match-up is not so much about the overall quality of the draws as those few particular cards; it's one of the few places where I'd consider mulliganing for something in Burn (but TKS punishes mulligans really hard so still generally not worth it).

It's not a match-up I'd want to see as either the Burn or the Eldrazi-player, because you can't really follow a gameplan to a likely win like with most match-ups, but you kinda have to just pray to the topdeck gods and roll with it. With the stock lists, there is no real strategic superiority to be had. It'd certainly be possible to design a Burn-list that would have strategic superiority over Eldrazi though (MD solutions to artifacts/enchantments, varied casting costs) and that may actually be worth doing in the current meta, provided the same tools can be used vs. Miracles as well. Likewise, it'd of course be trivial to design an Eldrazi-list with strategic superiority over Burn (Wastelands to reduce PoP effect by Wasting your own lands, a higher number of equipment and lock pieces, cheap ways to destroy Bridge post-board) but that's of course not worth doing if those tools can't be leveraged against more popular decks like Miracles/Delver/D&T/Lands/etc.

[Barook]

Any reason for that than the Corrupted Crossroads?
I like the look of Brushland than Crossroads. There is no other reason.

@Noloam_: Displacer is one of the best cards you can have vs Lands. Karakas is only so-so at stopping Marit Lage as they can either tap it down or waste it before producing the token at your EoT.

[Noloam_]

I like the look of Brushland than Crossroads. There is no other reason.

@Noloam_: Displacer is one of the best cards you can have vs Lands. Karakas is only so-so at stopping Marit Lage as they can either tap it down or waste it before producing the token at your EoT.

alright. how does worlbreaker work for you in that match? is that card really playable there?

[Barook]

It kills stuff like Maze or Chasm. That's the main function there.

[Noloam_]

It kills stuff like Maze or Chasm. That's the main function there.

my point is that it costs 7 mana. i even sometimes have problems casting smasher against lands -_-'
. they can crop into combo with only one piece of the combo. and i dont play wastelands

[maraxusofkelds]

yes i know. my plan is the noloam plan: hope you dont get loam locked and aggro them before they can kill you XD

yes the multiple karakas plan does seem great. im also interessted about how worldbreaker rocks this match. it seems like a very expensive card in that matchup.



i almost forgot about lands tbh. i played 2 times against esper stoneblade and 1 vs shardless yesterday and still managed to go 5-0. shardless and esper is all i worry about online

If i am able to shut off their loam, the game comes down into a slow topdeck war that inevitably ends with maze or chasm stalling. Eldrazi has no tools to deal with that except for world breaker or wasteland, and i dont run wasteland. I guess it doesnt really matter that itll cost 7 mana when you guys go into slow topdeck mode anyway since they cant recur wasteland to blast u with leyline outm


On a related note to esper, yesterday i faced literally the most anti eldrazi auto folds to storm deck i have ever faced. It was a wug deck with stoneforge, kotr, gofys, and tnn. Imagine my surprise when thought knot revealed a hand full of that shit.

[Noloam_]

If i am able to shut off their loam, the game comes down into a slow topdeck war that inevitably ends with maze or chasm stalling. Eldrazi has no tools to deal with that except for world breaker or wasteland, and i dont run wasteland. I guess it doesnt really matter that itll cost 7 mana when you guys go into slow topdeck mode anyway since they cant recur wasteland to blast u with leyline outm


On a related note to esper, yesterday i faced literally the most anti eldrazi auto folds to storm deck i have ever faced. It was a wug deck with stoneforge, kotr, gofys, and tnn. Imagine my surprise when thought knot revealed a hand full of that shit.



yes stoneforges are very active today. thats why i run 1 tower main, it was one of the reasons i went 5-0 yesterday. im also planning to cut the 2 thorns for 2 revokers (disclaimer: for testing reasons only). i think revoker is less narrow.

[maraxusofkelds]

Do you run towers in your sideboard? How many do you run total? This seems like an interesting method to fight all the batterskulls, jittes, and even balefuls.

[Noloam_]

Do you run towers in your sideboard? How many do you run total? This seems like an interesting method to fight all the batterskulls, jittes, and even balefuls.

no just 1 main

http://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/420486#online

[demonlord340]

I'm a long time lurker and legacy player, but your work on this deck has drawn me out of the shadows. I'll be looking to pick it ASAP and start jamming it at local tournaments whenever I have time away from grad school. I might have missed it, but I was wondering on thoughts about Wasteland vs Mishra's Factory. Gerry T used them over the factories a while back, but all the recent lists are sans wasteland. Is having the extra pressure that important, or are our land drops too important?

[Noloam_]

I'm a long time lurker and legacy player, but your work on this deck has drawn me out of the shadows. I'll be looking to pick it ASAP and start jamming it at local tournaments whenever I have time away from grad school. I might have missed it, but I was wondering on thoughts about Wasteland vs Mishra's Factory. Gerry T used them over the factories a while back, but all the recent lists are sans wasteland. Is having the extra pressure that important, or are our land drops too important?

yeah try it out. give riehu the credits for the factories. He came up with almost the perect landbase in my opinion.

Factory is great vs miracles after terminus. You can lategame equip jitte with it and make good trades. if you have 1 factory and the opponent has young pyromancers + a few tokens, attacking does not seem smart for him. you can activate it for 1 mana to overcome a liliana sac.


eldrazi is a deck that can get people on a low life total in a short time. So the extra points of damage with the factory are very relavant. wasteland is good vs lands, but i feel i always need my own lands. especially when you get wastelanded yourself

[Bongo]

Is there a possibility of running both Factory and Wasteland?

Since Eldrazi are so manahungry, wouldn't it make sense to raise the land count?

I'm experimenting with 28 Lands plus 2 Spirit Guides. So far, mana-flood hasn't been an issue between Displacer activations, Factory activations and using Waste on your opponents land.

[darkgh0st]

White Eldrazi took 1st at a medium sized (usually around 30 to 50 people) monthly tourney at my area. The list is kept hidden due to the player's request. It looked like barook's list with the Corrupted Crossroads swap. Displacer is such a powerhouse.

EDIT: not barook's list. I saw Plateaus and Eldrazi Obligators from the archived videos.

[Barook]

White Eldrazi took 1st at a medium sized (usually around 30 to 50 people) monthly tourney at my area. The list is kept hidden due to the player's request. It looked like barook's list with the Corrupted Crossroads swap. Displacer is such a powerhouse.

EDIT: not barook's list. I saw Plateaus and Eldrazi Obligators from the archived videos.
Interesting.

I'll test the R/W variant later this week to get an impression of it.

[Noloam_]

Interesting.

I'll test the R/W variant later this week to get an impression of it.

I think it is ok

I went 3-1 and 4-1 with it. I lost one game where i didnt find my red for my 2 obligators. Perhaps my 4 cavern, 4 crossroads and 3 petals are not enough :/. I think the red version is beter than the collorless build vs shardless

But i dislike petals even more then i did before. As i now realize that the also grows goyf.

[Cire]

I'm having some success locally with the CWRg version. 13 red and 13 white sources seems enough for me for Displacer and Obligator, and 10 green sources for worldbreaker also works pretty good. I really miss factories though - and I know I don't run enough removal at all.


-25 lands
4 Ancient Tomb
3 City of Traitors
4 Eldrazi Temple
3 Eye of Ugin
4 Corrupted Crossroads
4 Cavern of Souls
1 Battlefield Forge
2 Karakas

-26 Creatures
2 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Eldrazi Mimic
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
4 Endless One
4 Eldrazi Displacer
4 Eldrazi Obligator

-9 Spells
4 Chalice of the Void
2 Lotus Petal
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Warping Wail
1 Dismember

SB/ 15
2 World breaker
2 All is Dust
4 Leyline of the Void
2 Phyrexian revoker
2 Thorn of Amethyst
1 Dismember
1 Warping Wail
1 Tower of the Magistrate

[Barook]

@Cire: What's your general impression of Obligator? How good is it? Against what decks did you play?

I suspected already no Factory hurts, but it depends on how good Obligator is to compensate for that.

[josch6083]

very funny. I just wanted to write, that I built a RW-Eldrazi deck and now I´m reading that others are testing it too.

Here my impressions. I went 4:1 on a local tournament on saturday. Lost the final against eldrazi!
First I have to say, that I first tried to build a black eldrazi list with Urborgs and Toxic deluge. The reasons why I´m now on RW are ..

- I always felt weak against decks with quick small creatures like Grixis Delver / Delver in generell, DnT, Goblins, Elves ... So I wanted a cheap sweeper to clear the board, but without killing my own threats. Therefor I got 3 Kozileks Return MD. They did a really great job! Feels good to kill DRS, Delver, Stoneforge, Pyromancer including all of his tokens ... with one spell at instant speed!
- and if needed you can kill even bigger creatures. Just play your Endless for 7 Mana and give every other creature 5 damage by removing Kozileks return. Now you should have the only creture on the board. A 7/7 Endless one
- I wanted to play Displacer. The card is just too good to be ignored! So the choice was clear. It has to be RW
- Also your sideboard options are way better, for example Containment priest, Rest in peace ...
I´m still working on a good Balance in the SB

The main reason people are scared of playing a two colored eldrazi is probably the mana base. But in every single game I didnt have the feeling of falling behind because of my mana base. I play 27 Lands. Thats the perfect number to get enough colorless and colored mana.

This is the actual list I played: (I put 1 Kozileks return to SB and kicked out Endbringer. For these 2 spots i put Barrage Tyrant and the third Reshaper in)

Creatures:
4 Eldrazi Mimics
4 Endless One
4 TKS
4 Reality Smasher
4 Eldrazi Displacer
3 Matter Reshaper
1 Barrage Tyrant => very interesting card. I´m exited to test it

4 Chalice of the Void
3 Kozileks Return
2 Dismember


4 Plateau
3 Battlefield forge
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Eye of Ugin (4, because I always want to have an Eye)
2 Wooded foothills (fetchlands are better than corrupted crossroads, because I always want the RW mana to cast Priest or Kozileks Return)
4 Ancient Tomb
3 City of Traitors
3 Cavern of Souls

SB: still a work in progress
3 Faerie Macabre
2 Ratchet Bomb
2 Pithing Needle
3 Thorn of Amethyst
1 Ulamog Ceaseless Hunger
1 Kozileks Return
2 Containmet Priest
1 ???

I had a lot of fun playing it. Once I clered the board of my opponent who was playing Grixis. He lost Pyromancer + 2 Tokens, Stonbeforge and DRS! Was fun watching his face, when I cleared the board in his endstep.
I always prefered the colorless version and thought I would never reconsider my oppinion. But it feels like the Displacers and Kozileks Return fill the gap. I can handle a ton of creature at the same time and I can handle other fatties like Gurmag Angler, other Eldrazis, Goyfs etc.
And as an opponent it is hard to decide what to wasteland. If he wastelands my colored sources I just throw in my fatties. If he kills my colorless lands I can handle their creatures with Korileks Return, containment priest ...

Thoughts:
- And maybe there are further options with Eldrazi Obligator => in the mirror match they are gorgeous
- chaos warp could be an interesting sideboard card => you can handle Blood moon, Ensnaring Bridge, Grislebrand, Moat ... at instant speed
- Barrage Tyrant: If you are close to finish your opponent, you just have to pay 3 mana after combat and give your opponent another 3-5 damage. Sounds like being worth to test it

All in all I´m looking forward to further testing. So far I´m very happy. Please give me some comments and feedback. Thanks

[Cire]

@Cire: What's your general impression of Obligator? How good is it? Against what decks did you play?

I suspected already no Factory hurts, but it depends on how good Obligator is to compensate for that.

Still trying to figure out if it's worth having over factory. I've been finding it Obligator particularly helpful for the Mirror and against Delver decks. It also helps against nightmare Goyf/KOTR/Stoneforge decks, just by breaking combat math a little. Additionally, this may just be my mistake with playing it - but I'm also trying to figure out when it's best to wait for the steal, or just use it as a 3/1 haste.

[Barook]

Still trying to figure out if it's worth having over factory. I've been finding it Obligator particularly helpful for the Mirror and against Delver decks. It also helps against nightmare Goyf/KOTR/Stoneforge decks, just by breaking combat math a little. Additionally, this may just be my mistake with playing it - but I'm also trying to figure out when it's best to wait for the steal, or just use it as a 3/1 haste.
Those points sound pretty good. But I get the impression that the final goal should be a build that can run Factory AND Obligator to have the best of both worlds, similiar how my Wg list combined Matter Reshaper/Factory with the Displacer build.

[Cire]

Those points sound pretty good. But I get the impression that the final goal should be a build that can run Factory AND Obligator to have the best of both worlds, similiar how my Wg list combined Matter Reshaper/Factory with the Displacer build.

I guess. . . . I mean that sounds rough. Already my version is running at least 1 less removal spell than it should. But just to go along with it . . . the requirements of the manabase seem to be:

13 Red
13 White
10 Green
14 SOL Lands
4 Factory

Just 14 Sol lands, 4 Factory, 4 Caverns, 4 Corrupted Crossroads gives us 26 lands . . . 1 more than my list. And those lands still don't fufill left requirements of 5 Red, 5 White, 2 Green. Let's say you just run 4 Lotus Petals, instead of getting fancy with SSG/Petal Split like I did - you still need at least 1 more 1 Red/White Source. This means you have to make at least 2 spaces in the SB for your Karakas which need to remain in the 75. . .

So in the end, at the very best this mash-up would look like this:


-27 lands
4 Ancient Tomb
3 City of Traitors
4 Eldrazi Temple
3 Eye of Ugin
4 Corrupted Crossroads
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Mishra's Factory
1 Battlefield Forge

-24 Creatures
4 Eldrazi Mimic
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
4 Endless One
4 Eldrazi Displacer
4 Eldrazi Obligator

-9 Spells
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Lotus Petal
1 Umezawa's Jitte


So . . . you're running even less removal, and more Lotus Petals, but it seems like you can play around with the numbers?

I guess maybe remove an Eye of Ugin and/or 1 Obligator for more removal?

I mean if you're playing factories, you need at least 2 jitte's at the least? Not even talking about wails and dismembers.

This list would need ALOT of work.

[Noloam_]

that almost looks like the optimal list. but i whould be cutting 1 city of traitors and 1 petal for sure. dubbel petal is a mulligan. it seems that there are to much lands. thats quite bad against shardless. i whould be playing 2 dismembers

[Barook]

that almost looks like the optimal list. but i whould be cutting 1 city of traitors and 1 petal. dubbel petal is a mulligan. it seems that there are to much lands. thats quite bad against shardless. i whould be playing 2 dismembers
Depends on the hand. Double Petal hands are still keepable as long as they enable enough broken. There's no guarantee that the next hand might not be a screw up.

@Cire: While 4 Factories are better, 3 copies are still sufficient. And I prefer to run 2 City of Traitors. That brings the manabase down to 25 lands. If you only want to run 2 Factories, it would bring the land number to 24, which seems way more sane.

Remember that the original list looked like this (http://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/418572#online) - and there's alot in that approach I can agree with, hence my interest in the RW version.

Maybe 1 Displacer or Obligator can be moved to the board? For this very reason, I want to learn more about the power level of Obligator.

I'll be fiddling around with the numbers a bit with my suggested first draft (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?30500-DTB-Eldrazi-Stompy&p=950237&viewfull=1#post950237) of the list - maybe I'll cut 2x City instead and replace them with 2 Factories since the deck has 1 more Lotus Petal to compensate as far as Chalice @1 goes.

[Cire]

Okay - I'll try playing around with the Factory CWRgb list's numbers (love that we're playing 4 colors :tongue:).

City is a good cut, but petal is needed to reach the necessary saturation of Red/White mana.

If you cut it to 25 lands - I would first run 1 Jitte + 1 Dismember. If you cut it to 24 lands - I would add in a Warping Wail over a 2nd Dismember.

[Barook]

If you cut it to 25 lands - I would first run 1 Jitte + 1 Dismember. If you cut it to 24 lands - I would add in a Warping Wail over a 2nd Dismember.
Meta call - I have no idea how the list plays. Besides, I would still prefer a list with both, if possible. Although I can't tell how Obligator changes the need for removal.

EDIT:
@josch6083: Chaos Warp sounds like an interesting solution to Blood Moon since it can be even cast under it, reducing the need for World Breaker in the SB. I'm not sure in what other match-ups it's relevant due to the backfire potential, although the ability to kill any permanent is tempting.

But EoT Chaos Warping someone's fatty into play to steal it with Obligator next turn sounds hilarious, Magical Christmasland be damned.

[maraxusofkelds]

Having recently ran bant eldrazi in modern, I was wondering if there was some way to work out the mana base into using more of the green in w/g eldrazi. Ancient stirrings felt amazing everytime I cast it, and I can imagine it would be doubly so in legacy eldrazi especially since itll allow us to filter for more lock pieces and mana as well. Maybe even the noble hieharch would be good just for the exalted which allows smashers to get over anglers and thought knots over typical 4/5 gofys. This might end up diluting too much of the explosiveness but the consistency does have some merit. On the other flip side, both of those cards also eat it from our chalice on 1.

[Cire]

Meta call - I have no idea how the list plays. Besides, I would still prefer a list with both, if possible. Although I can't tell how Obligator changes the need for removal.

EDIT:
@josch6083: Chaos Warp sounds like an interesting solution to Blood Moon since it can be even cast under it, reducing the need for World Breaker in the SB. I'm not sure in what other match-ups it's relevant due to the backfire potential, although the ability to kill any permanent is tempting.

But EoT Chaos Warping someone's fatty into play to steal it with Obligator next turn sounds hilarious, Magical Christmasland be damned.

I'm treating 3-4 Obligator as 1 removal really - since i'm not always using Obligator as a steal - and when I am it's usually to win the game. And I would prefer to run "5" removal - so 2 Jitte, 1 Wail, 1 Dismember, 3-4 Olbigator. Again, though i've only started testing it, so i'm not sure about this beyond theory craft either.

As for Chaos Warp, that sounds hilarious, but remember that 8! of our red sources only work for Eldrazi Creatures! To run Warp, you'll have to change the manabase ALOT. Additionally, running any color of eldrazi creature with the mana base of 4 Corrupted Crossroad, 4 Caverns of Souls, 4 Lotus Petal, can work. I mean honestly we can run strangler, downer, displacer, worldbreaker and Obligator. Not that we would, just that i don't think we need to look for ways to avoid running worldbreaker.

[Noloam_]

To all the colorless eldrazi players:

what do you find the most consistent manabase for the deck and why?

i am playing 2 lists.

first list:

4 eye
4 tomb
4 temple
2 city
4 factory
2 urborg
4 cavern
1 tower of the magistrate



when i play this list i play 3 reshaper and 2 endbringer. because this manabase is makes it easy to ramp to endbringer


second list:

4 eye
4 tomb
4 temple
2 city
3 factory
1 urborg
2 wasteland
4 cavern
1 tower of the magistrate


when i play this list i play 4 reshaper and 1 endbringer. because wastelanding your opponent and casting endbringer is not going to happen. wasteland seems great vs shardless and the mirror.


i also play the tower because i see a LOT of esper and bug decks. last 7 matches i encoutered, were 5 times BUG and 2 times esper. it was a sad day :(. tower also works against phantasmal image

[Darklingske]

I prefer the first list for the reason you already noted namely: easier casting Worldbreaker. BUT, I really don't like 4 Eye & 2 Urborg. I would replace one of each with either 2 Wastes or 2 crystal vein.

[toor]

Does anyone have a sb plan they like vs Delver? I tried a lot of different things last night (over 3 hours) and don't like any of them.

Every card is too situational.

I think the most dangerous draws they have are Delver + wasteland (nightmare scenario is + daze). Thorn and Chalice Effects are fine if you draw and play them early but don't help vs their decent draws only against their worst ones.

[Noloam_]

Does anyone have a sb plan they like vs Delver? I tried a lot of different things last night (over 3 hours) and don't like any of them.

Every card is too situational.

I think the most dangerous draws they have are Delver + wasteland (nightmare scenario is + daze). Thorn and Chalice Effects are fine if you draw and play them early but don't help vs their decent draws only against their worst ones.


-2 thorns (if you play 2 like me)
+ 2 wasteland.

it just works. i went 3 times 4-1 today. dont know if that is a good thing :/

[Discus]

Hey Noloam,

I'm the player behind H0cusP0cus account.

I tried wasteland for a long time and i think it's not reliable to fight deathrite's shaman decks (shardless or delver). they play their own wastelands so most of the time we cannot afford sacrifice our wasteland.
DRS unbalance completly this fight for resources even if they draw it later.
Of course, there are somes sequences you can win the ressources war with fast clock, but it's pretty unusual.

I think best arguments to play wasteland are :
- get somes random free wins against low land opponent hand
- destroy problematic lands like rishadan port / maze oh ith / glacial clasm / dark depth + thespian's stage
- get an advantage for the mirror
- lock an opponent where thorn of amethyst matter (ANT / Sneakshow), sometimes it's works pretty well againt miracle but a good old fashion chalice x=1 do a better job ;)
- destroy our lands to do not loose against price of progress

I'm running a test version impispred from a japanese tournament featuring (http://www.hareruyamtg.com/jp/k/kD03170W/) :
4 eye
4 temple
4 city
4 tomb
3 urborg
4 cavern
2 tower

To exploit this heavy producing manabase, this list include traditional eldrazi creatures package + 4 oblivion sower + 1 Nullamog.
I'm actually impressed by the consistency of this build, and some times broken things happen like Ulamog hardcast turn 4 ... lol
I'm curently running 4/0 in league and cross my fingers for last match.

In a traditionnal coloreless build, I prefer a 3/3 split between eye and city.
both are not impressive activating factory i guess and running urborg over land utilities (karakas / tower / basic waste) can be justify by playing much ccm6 drop.
I like the full set of city and somes spirit guide to cast TKS or smasher as soon as possible to crush games.

[Discus]

Does anyone have a sb plan they like vs Delver? I tried a lot of different things last night (over 3 hours) and don't like any of them.

Every card is too situational.

I think the most dangerous draws they have are Delver + wasteland (nightmare scenario is + daze). Thorn and Chalice Effects are fine if you draw and play them early but don't help vs their decent draws only against their worst ones.

a third jitte on sideboard really shine in this matchup, as spatial contorsion.
spirit guide is also important to pay their daze, if delver is a big part of your metagame you can play 3 guide
warping wail is pretty good but didn't works against flipped delver

thorn is really bad againt delver, most of the time you tempo yourself more than delver player and give their wasteland way more value.
obviously, you should abort as possible to use ancien tomb unless you can race really hard or connect a jitte

[Noloam_]

Hey Noloam,

I'm the player behind H0cusP0cus account.

I tried wasteland for a long time and i think it's not reliable to fight deathrite's shaman decks (shardless or delver). they play their own wastelands so most of the time we cannot afford sacrifice our wasteland.
DRS unbalance completly this fight for resources even if they draw it later.
Of course, there are somes sequences you can win the ressources war with fast clock, but it's pretty unusual.

I think best arguments to play wasteland are :
- get somes random free wins against low land opponent hand
- destroy problematic lands like rishadan port / maze oh ith / glacial clasm / dark depth + thespian's stage
- get an advantage for the mirror
- lock an opponent where thorn of amethyst matter (ANT / Sneakshow), sometimes it's works pretty well againt miracle but a good old fashion chalice x=1 do a better job ;)
- destroy our lands to do not loose against price of progress

I'm running a test version impispred from a japanese tournament featuring (http://www.hareruyamtg.com/jp/k/kD03170W/) :
4 eye
4 temple
4 city
4 tomb
3 urborg
4 cavern
2 tower

To exploit this heavy producing manabase, this list include traditional eldrazi creatures package + 4 oblivion sower + 1 Nullamog.
I'm actually impressed by the consistency of this build, and some times broken things happen like Ulamog hardcast turn 4 ... lol
I'm curently running 4/0 in league and cross my fingers for last match.

In a traditionnal coloreless build, I prefer a 3/3 split between eye and city.
both are not impressive activating factory i guess and running urborg over land utilities (karakas / tower / basic waste) can be justify by playing much ccm6 drop.
I like the full set of city and somes spirit guide to cast TKS or smasher as soon as possible to crush games.

hey hocuspocus! first of all, thank you for your contribution to the colorless build. you have had some great results. i stole the 1 tower main idea from you

you are abosolutely right about wasteland vs delver decks. the point is, you dont play them for the delver decks. they are indeed great vs the mirror, lands, loampox (which caused my 4-1 today), shardless and elves (cradle). i also play the sphere sideboard, so wasteland will give that card more vallue.

yes i also saw that list. i never tested it, but i love to see how sower works. i cutted my 2nd urborg for now (in my wasteland list), i drew the 2nd piece to many times late game. i have a hard time justifying 3 of them. but i guess you need the for your fatties

i also ponderd about the fattie plan. perhaps the cloudpost/vesuva/eye/temple/tomb/glimmerpost plan could be working.

i hope you go 5-0 ;)!

[toor]

a third jitte on sideboard really shine in this matchup, as spatial contorsion.
spirit guide is also important to pay their daze, if delver is a big part of your metagame you can play 3 guide
warping wail is pretty good but didn't works against flipped delver

thorn is really bad againt delver, most of the time you tempo yourself more than delver player and give their wasteland way more value.
obviously, you should abort as possible to use ancien tomb unless you can race really hard or connect a jitte

I disagree. I tried playing a set of 6 games where I started with Jitte in hand and it wasn't effective in the close games. My opponent had 2 decays, 1 grudge + the usualy instant speed removal. And I found it very difficult to commit to a jitte since, if they wasteland you its often 2 turns worth of mana investment. I can't imagine wanting the third. Maybe if I played a lot of factories this would be viable.

I agree with thorn being bad. But I like the idea of a 28th mana source (not wasteland).

[Cire]

Testing report and changes to list from here (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?30500-DTB-Eldrazi-Stompy&p=950774&viewfull=1#post950774).

I cut an Obligator and decided that I do not need 13 red sources for 3 Obligator's. This allows me to switch the Forge back to a Karakas. I have made this change, perhaps because I over rely on Karakas to help me against S&T and Reanimator. However, I have found that 3 Obligators is more than fine. I have so far been happy with drawing them in my hand, and don't really wish to see them with more frequency than other cards.

-1 Eldrazi Obligator
-1 Battlefield Forge
+1 Karakas

I actually really like the tech of tower of the magistrate. It has helped me a lot in completely random situations. It's especially helpful against Esper decks and other SFM decks. I have decided to cut 1 City of Traitors, since having 3 keeps screwing me over (at times, other times, drawing a COT is a gift from the gods).

-1 City of Traitors
+1 Tower of the magistrate

Finally, in terms of removal. I believe that the proper amount of removal for this deck is 5 cards. So far, from what I can tell Obligators, occasionally function as removal, but only if you're going for alpha strike. As such I count all 3 remaining Obligators as 1 removal spell in terms of the decks total. That still means that 1 want to run 4 other spells. I honestly constantly change my removal suite, so at this point, just for place holders I would like to add 1 Dismember, 1 Wail, and 1 All is Dust (which with the Jitte makes 4). This means we need to remove 2 more cards to make room. I'm currently going with the Factories unless I can come up with something better.

So

-2 Mishra's Factory
+1 Dismember
+1 Warping Wail
+1 All is Dust

In the end, my list has a lot of singletons, and looks like a complete mashup of all the different ideas that we have on the table. However, It works well as far as I can tell. I would still like to readd the other two factories, and I would like to actually figure out my removal suite. I do not think it's okay for me to just run a bunch of singletons.

Edit: Additionally due to the changes in the main board the SB has the following changes:

SB/ 15

- 1 Dismember
- 1 Warping Wail
- 1 Tower of the Magistrate
- 1 All is Dust
+1 Karakas
+1 Pithing Needle
+1 Tormond's Crypt
+1 Wasteland Strangler

Strangler is just for fun - as it's a beating against decks with Delve/FOW, and with 2 AID, 1 Dismember, 1 Wail, 1 Jitte, 3 Obligators you have enough removal anyway. Also it's fun being able to play a 5 "color" deck.

[maraxusofkelds]

Does anyone have a sb plan they like vs Delver? I tried a lot of different things last night (over 3 hours) and don't like any of them.

Every card is too situational.

I think the most dangerous draws they have are Delver + wasteland (nightmare scenario is + daze). Thorn and Chalice Effects are fine if you draw and play them early but don't help vs their decent draws only against their worst ones.

Warping wail or dismember to take out delver. Delver is your biggest threat because that is the only thing that you wont be able to block except late late game with worldbreaker, so kill it at all costs, esp with wail pre flip. I personally save my elvish spirit guides to pay for daze instead of going all out unless I have cavern of souls out because daze is incredible vs eldrazi since we want to play on curve.

If you are running up against bug or ug delver, bring in 4 leylines of voids. Shutting off their gofys and gooses goes a long way in both matchups. Grixis feels like a toss up having played with and against it. If they get a t1 blind flip delver with counters, you pretty much lost unless u can land a scenario of cavern of souls, dismembers, chalices, etc. If they have PoP in the sideboard though, nothing you do will save you.

Spatial contortions if you run em. If you get desparate you can always displacer their delvers to unflip them.

[the_goat]

mini report of 2 leagues "reshaperless" lists:

list #1 - instead of 3 reshaper i played warping wail #3 and #4 and spatial contortion #1 - 25 lands with 2 tower of magistrate 4 mishra's factory (no wasteland)
list #2 - same as list #1 but no spatial contortion replaced by second endbringer

I am testing the deck in real life tournament since 1 month and half now and I have always found reshaper the weakest card in the deck...always siding it out and never really gaining advantage from it...

both leagues finished 4-1 - in the first one I lost to jeskai blade - he used pretty much all resources to kill me...like 3 bolts 3 wasteland...while in the second league i lost one of the 4 matches with miracles.

in the two leagues combined I faced miracles 6 times...was it just casual or is the most played deck online? 60% of the league field seems to me crazy

6 miracles
1 jeskai blade
1 mirror eldrazi colorless
1 enchantress UG (cloud of faeries/curio combo)
1 reanimator

pretty much the summary of this experience is: I think we are super favorite against miracles
they cannot deal with the combination of cavern, wail, chalice, thorn, eye of ugin recursion, thought-knot seer, every card we play is a virtual threat.
post side I played against several solution proposed by miracles - path to exile - blood moon - energy field/rip - nahiri/emrakul - i think we should board something to deal with enchantments (karn? all is dust? nevinyrral's disk?)

today unfortunately I will not be able to play...

[Barook]

nahiri/emrakul - i think we should board something to deal with enchantments (karn? all is dust? nevinyrral's disk?).
Karn is kinda nifty since he can remove Bridges as well, but 7 non-Eldrazi mana is way too much to ask for. Sure, you could run Grim Monolith to support him, but at that point, why not just run All is Dust instead?

[Noloam_]

i agree with barook. when you have a temple and eye in your hand, then you still need 6 more mana. you are in magic christmassland, before you are casting karn in that situation

[DavidHernandez]

I am finding that paper magic seems to be very different from MTGO. Some of the decks listed as matches for MTGO never show up in our area. I've been testing the following build for three weeks and will take it to our tournament tomorrow night.

I removed 3 of the Matter Reshaper. They didn't seem strong enough. I added a Kozilek's Channeler x 2 and found it was too much. Dropped it back to x1 and it seems really good. I see Moat here and added Eldrazi Monument to my board, and with the RDW and UR Delver crowds I've added Honorable Passage, almost exclusively as a response to Price of Progress. I also see Maverick and D&T, so I've added Virtue's Ruin to the board. I ran that last time and it was awesome.

Two Warping Wail's and three Spatial Contortion's in the main are working well for me. I can't remember being sorry to see them.

I find three All Is Dust are required, as are four Leyline of the Void.

Jace, the Mind Sculptor has been pissing me off. I removed my Jitte's in favor of a single Sword of Fire and Ice. In testing I've been very pleased with it.

The two Phyrexian Revoker's in the main have been fabulous. I wish they could turn off lands....LOL.

Anyway, this list is final for the tourney tomorrow and I'll post results on Friday.

Eldrazi Stompy (DH v21)

4 Endless One
2 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Eldrazi Mimic
1 Matter Reshaper
4 Eldrazi Displacer
4 Thought-Knot Seer
1 Kozilek's Channeler
4 Reality Smasher
1 Endbringer

4 Chalice of the Void
2 Warping Wail
3 Spatial Contortion
1 Sword of Fire and Ice

1 Karakas
1 Wastes
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
3 Caves of Koilos
3 City of Traitors
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Eye of Ugin

Sideboard
1 Wastes
1 Warping Wail
3 Honorable Passage
3 Virtue's Ruin
4 Leyline of the Void
3 All Is Dust

[Noloam_]

could you tell me in which matches the SOFAI shines? jitte is the greatest card vs burn and elves imo.



btw,gratz with your 5-0 btw hocuspocus!

[DavidHernandez]

could you tell me in which matches the SOFAI shines? jitte is the greatest card vs burn and elves imo.

I have had trouble with any deck running Jace, TMS. It really ticks me off. LOL. I also have trouble vs Delver decks. The SOFI is good against all blue and red decks, including Grixis Delver, but more than that it gets me card draw that normally I don't see. I understand that we already have a good game against Miracles, but I'm having trouble...might just be me, but the SOFI has been fabulous in testing.

I have not lost to Elves yet, even without the Jitte's, and play against it often.

Several of our players are Top-8 or better in major tourneys, and it's possible the SoFI is a crutch for me...but in testing it is giving me what I need. Now I need to see if it works in the real world. I'll report on it. It's entirely possible that in real life it's the worst card ever.

Dave

[Barook]

You should run more Factories. They help against PWs.

[DavidHernandez]

You should run more Factories. They help against PWs.

Good point. I had 3 in there previously, and found my mana base becoming fragile. Running your build here hasn't worked for me. Not sure why. I modified it and then took first place with my previous build a month ago, but I'm running into Delver and JTMS trouble. I'll tinker and see about adding at least 2 Mishra's Factory's. I think 3 would be better for consistency, I just don't see how to get that done without dropping cards I feel I need. Perhaps drop 1 City of Traitors, my Karakas, and the single maindeck Wastes, but I have to say I don't want to drop those.

Also, I rely on black and run 2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth and don't want to drop them. I can certainly go back to a previous build, but then I feel I'm going back to old problems.

I'll run what I've got and report, then work on adding Factorys, which I think could solve other issues.

It's all such a fine balancing act....

[Barook]

Careful when trying to cast C spells with Lotus Petal. I misclicked and it resulted in a game-losing bug (https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CjVM3OlWkAAbg9a.jpg:large) when trying to cast it with double Petal.

Turns out you can't undo or cancel shit, locking up the game, so you can either just concede or wait to time out. Good thing it happened in G2 and I still took down G3 vs Aggro Loam.

[Noloam_]

Careful when trying to cast C spells with Lotus Petal. I misclicked and it resulted in a game-losing bug (https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CjVM3OlWkAAbg9a.jpg:large) when trying to cast it with double Petal.

Turns out you can't undo or cancel shit, locking up the game, so you can either just concede or wait to time out. Good thing it happened in G2 and I still took down G3 vs Aggro Loam.

Thats another reason to play the ape ^^. You can always rewind his abillity. Im glad you won from him. He was my only loss in my 4-1 run yesterday. He drew 3 wastelands naturally. This guy.....

[the_goat]

I see many lists running 3/4 matter reshaper...I cut them after 2 weeks of testing...I do understand that they are good card advantage against liliana/baleful/decay/waste decks...but aside this imho minimal advantage...are they worthy 3/4 slots?

Sent from my LG-H525n using Tapatalk

[Noloam_]

I see many lists running 3/4 matter reshaper...I cut them after 2 weeks of testing...I do understand that they are good card advantage against liliana/baleful/decay/waste decks...but aside this imho minimal advantage...are they worthy 3/4 slots?

Sent from my LG-H525n using Tapatalk

If you play wastelands, they are great. you can play threats and destroy lands. If you dont run wastelands, they are sometimes silly. in my nonwasteland build i play 3

[Discus]

btw,gratz with your 5-0 btw hocuspocus!

Thanks ! :)
I will try an other run next week to see if i just been lucky or of this build is really strong.



yes i also saw that list. i never tested it, but i love to see how sower works. i cutted my 2nd urborg for now (in my wasteland list), i drew the 2nd piece to many times late game. i have a hard time justifying 3 of them. but i guess you need the for your fatties


3 urborg seems ugly but i didn't have so much issue in five games : sometimes i drew multiple legendary lands i couldn't cast but games were allready in control by my side.
At worst, urborg turn multiple copies of eye / urborg as lotus petal.
The other reason to play so much urborg with sower is to turn on fetchlands you stole from your opponent
And dismember become a much better removal.

Obviously this build is really good at activating eye and crushing miracle.
I think this build is much resilient to blood moon than traditional one with generic mana casting cost of oblivion sower.
I also should run somes copies of all is dust which didn't fit with my previous wasteland / amethyst build.

I didn't play vs shardless yet but i have great hopes with sower acting as a bigger tarmo and black mana to cast dismember.
Also sower get all fetchlands they removed with DRS
Maybe this is too much optimistic ... ^^


Careful when trying to cast C spells with Lotus Petal. I misclicked and it resulted in a game-losing bug (https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CjVM3OlWkAAbg9a.jpg:large) when trying to cast it with double Petal.

Turns out you can't undo or cancel shit, locking up the game, so you can either just concede or wait to time out. Good thing it happened in G2 and I still took down G3 vs Aggro Loam.

Hey Barook, I had the same problem when i tried your build but fortunalty i was reimbursed after submitted a bug report to mtgo : http://wizards.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/668

[the_goat]

If you play wastelands, they are great. you can play threats and destroy lands. If you dont run wastelands, they are sometimes silly. in my nonwasteland build i play 3

you play 3 even if they are sometimes silly...why not replacing them? when they are not silly what is the benefit? i mean...the benefit worhty 3 slots?

[Noloam_]

you play 3 even if they are sometimes silly...why not replacing them? when they are not silly what is the benefit? i mean...the benefit worhty 3 slots?

because you need them vs burn, tempo and fast aggro decks. the other possibilties are just worse. eye + solland and 2 of these dudes is still great

[the_goat]

because you need them vs burn, tempo and fast aggro decks. the other possibilties are just worse. eye + solland and 2 of these dudes is still great

ok...i agree you can have a stellar opening hand and dump 2 of them on turn 2...but against burn chalice/thorn t1 is good enough to slow their deck down...and i'd rather play t2 thought knot seer to get rid of price of progress or vortex...i will test them again...at the moment i replaced them with 2 warping wail (playset maindeck) and 1 spatial contortion..

apart burn/aggro decks is there any other matchup where they shine?

[Noloam_]

ok...i agree you can have a stellar opening hand and dump 2 of them on turn 2...but against burn chalice/thorn t1 is good enough to slow their deck down...and i'd rather play t2 thought knot seer to get rid of price of progress or vortex...i will test them again...at the moment i replaced them with 2 warping wail (playset maindeck) and 1 spatial contortion..

apart burn/aggro decks is there any other matchup where they shine?

i dont Always have chalice and thorn is only slowing them down (which almost does nothing on the draw). if he plays a goblin guide T1, then you are only able to block turn 2 or 3 with TKS. If he bolts the seer, you are in big trouble. the reshaper makes good trades and makes you ramp into bigger creatures. warping wail does almost nothing vs burn.

well against all tempo decks they are great. only vs elves, combo and control they are not impressive.

[the_goat]

i dont Always have chalice and thorn is only slowing them down (which almost does nothing on the draw). if he plays a goblin guide T1, then you are only able to block turn 2 or 3 with TKS. If he bolts the seer, you are in big trouble. the reshaper makes good trades and makes you ramp into bigger creatures. warping wail does almost nothing vs burn.

well against all tempo decks they are great. only vs elves, combo and control they are not impressive.

100% agreed...i promise i will retest them...unfortunately not tonight as i built the deck already and i am at work...
in my local metagame (8 aficionados playing same deck since 2 years and 10 other players randomly rotating to weekly meetings) we have:

1 or 2 miracles
1 ANT
1 lands
1 12 post
2 or 3 delver variants (4c delver/bug/ur)
1 shardless
2 burn
2 eldrazi (one is me)
2 blade variants (esper blade/deathblade etc.)

I recently started to play in side 2 copies of zuran orb...against burn they are obviously nuts...but i loved them in the mirror (i have nothing better in side and I do not want chalices) and against ur delver too...

[Noloam_]

100% agreed...i promise i will retest them...unfortunately not tonight as i built the deck already and i am at work...
in my local metagame (8 aficionados playing same deck since 2 years and 10 other players randomly rotating to weekly meetings) we have:

1 or 2 miracles
1 ANT
1 lands
1 12 post
2 or 3 delver variants (4c delver/bug/ur)
1 shardless
2 burn
2 eldrazi (one is me)
2 blade variants (esper blade/deathblade etc.)

I recently started to play in side 2 copies of zuran orb...against burn they are obviously nuts...but i loved them in the mirror (i have nothing better in side and I do not want chalices) and against ur delver too...

yes zuran orb also seems great to me. perhaps they are even OK, vs tempo. because you fatties Always beat them in the long run and you can respond to wasteland. i Always wanted to test that card. i love to hear results

[Barook]

Just played DrGenial. He's back to the colorless build. While Obligator is good, the colorless version is more stable for him. I guess I'll don't bother with the RWg version, then.

As for the match itself, I threw away G2 because I had the kill on board if I had played Ancient Tomb to activate Factory, but saw it too late. :rolleyes: G3 was won with an unblocked Reality Smasher + Spatial Contortion for exactly 8 life. That's a first, too. Now I'm 10-0 vs the colorless Eldrazi build in matches.


Hey Barook, I had the same problem when i tried your build but fortunalty i was reimbursed after submitted a bug report to mtgo : http://wizards.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/668
Didn't get jackshit because I still won the match. :rolleyes:

[the_goat]

tested tonight following list

4 factories
4 caverns
4 tombs
4 temples
3 eyes
3 cities
2 urborg
1 tower of the magistrate

4 smasher
4 tks
2 ssg
4 mimic
2 matter reshaper
2 endbringer
4 endless one

3 warping wail
2 dismember
4 chalices
2 thorn of ametist
2 jitte

side
4 leyline
2 null rod
2 zuran orb
2 all is dust
2 revoker
2 ratchet bomb

round1 vs pox
i realize he is on pox from the basic swamp + cursed scroll start, i decided to play around wasteland and pox keeping my sol land in hand with ssg and mana open for wail, i drew another wail and i use it to exile his first bloodghast, he plays another and i decide to remove it too, i then play tks with factory open for an eventual sacrifice and i exile liliana, leaving him with lingering soul. he cast it and i reply with endbringer, i spend few turns pinging his fliers and he spends them back flashbacking the souls. i resolve 1 thorn and chalice for 1 and i finish him slowly by pinging him/drawing. g2 i have leyline and nuts start with sol land into chalice into sol land into tks - i see he does not have 3rd land for liliana but i decide to exile it anyway...he draws third land but his game is compromised. 1-0

round2 vs lands
nemesis deck - it's getting popular in my lgs...tonight there were 2...i win die roll and mulligan to 5 i keep chalice sol land tks thorn smasher, i cast chalice for 0 and thorn scrying mishra factory on top, i slow him down but i am struggling finding 3rd land, meanwhile he finds crop rotation to slowly assemble the combo and finishes me with 20/20 annoying legend. g2 i have leyline for his loam/fire recursion but he manages to naturally drew the combo...i have a feeling this is a truly unwinnable matchup. 1-1

round3 vs punishing jund
i win the die roll i start with nuts hand sol land chalice sol land tks followed by second tks, he scoops when he does not draw 3rd land. g2 i have leyline but he manages to win due to liliana + toughtseize...g3 i have double leyline and thorn...i have him stuck on 3 lands...i cast tks and i see double goyf (at the time humble 3/4 due to leyline) and hymn to tourach...i exile this one as I am putting pressure with tks and i have all is dust in hand...he peels from top 4th land cast double goyf, i still feel safe with all is dust...even if i will have to sac my leylines...i draw reshaper and play it...he draws liliana makes me sac..i sac reshaper...and i reveal thorn...i play it, thinking it;s a good move and i screw it up...as i will never be able to cast all is dust...that now costs 8...he manages to discard my all is dust with thoughtseize...his goyf have now tribal + sorcery! they are huge and they force me to chump...game over...bad beets...1-2

round4 vs burn
i win the first thanks to chalice + tks exiling his pop...g2 i take too many damages from my tomb and one pop for 6 means game over...g3 i start tomb into chalice for one city into chalice for 2 cavern smasher and i win with him looking sadly at the board...i did not need the 2 zuran orbs to win...but i was hoping so badly to have them in opening hand...2-2

sad but true..one stupid mistake prevented me to winning some prize (payout is only for 3-1 and 4-0)
I will give it a try again next Monday...overall i like the list...but I feel I want pithing needle over revoker...and perhaps the helm combo instead of null rod...

[Fox]

@the_goat Looking at the 2 Zuran Orb (without Crucible), you might consider straight-up Sheltered Valley as a sb swap for Urborg or Tower.

[the_goat]

@the_goat Looking at the 2 Zuran Orb (without Crucible), you might consider straight-up Sheltered Valley as a sb swap for Urborg or Tower.

zuran orb is there as a counter for price of progress and as a tech for the mirror...to recycle extra eyes/urborg and to mitigate too many tomb activation or dismember...sheltered valley will not help against burn...sure i gain 1 or 2 lives but then price burns me to death...crucible is an interesting card...will try to test it...

[metronome2charisma]

Went 1-3 last night, my worst performance in 3 months. I was really tired and just drew poorly. played against

rug delver (1-0)

burn (1-1) i'm now 5-1 against burn, so thats a thing. I felt burn way nearly a bye until getting SMASHED in these 2 games. to be fair he killed me from 10 while i was attacking for lethal.


imperial taxes (1-2)

bloodmoonred (1-3)

It was awful. bringing my record in matches to 56-28-3...That one hurt. i've really been thinking about running 4 eye 2 urborg and a couple main deck all is dust...Any one have any experience with similar lists?

[Noloam_]

i find it funny that a lot of decks are playing blood moon as hatepiece vs eldrazi. they lock out themselves a lot of times also. just won vs UWR blade who just got raced, while bloodmoonlocking himself LEL

i just 5-0'ed.

-Colorless eldrazi (drgenial ^^)
-UR
-White eldrazi
-Infect
-UWR blade


i dont know about the tower mainboard. perhaps it should be another wasteland or the 2e urborg. i want to play the tower, but its hard for me to find the slots. i dont really find room for it in the sideboard also :(. i will have a chat about this with riehu

[ChrisDissent]

i just 5-0'ed

Congratz !

With wich list of yours ? The "factories" one or the "wasteland" one ?

[Noloam_]

Congratz !

With wich list of yours ? The "factories" one or the "wasteland" one ?

tnx man. the 2 wasteland 3 factory split.

[Discus]

i find it funny that a lot of decks are playing blood moon as hatepiece vs eldrazi. they lock out themselves a lot of times also. just won vs UWR blade who just got raced, while bloodmoonlocking himself LEL

i just 5-0'ed.

-Colorless eldrazi (drgenial ^^)
-UR
-White eldrazi
-Infect
-UWR blade


i dont know about the tower mainboard. perhaps it should be another wasteland or the 2e urborg. i want to play the tower, but its hard for me to find the slots. i dont really find room for it in the sideboard also :(. i will have a chat about this with riehu

Yes ! :)
Congratz, and you did not crush any miracle player ^^

[Noloam_]

Yes ! :)
Congratz, and you did not crush any miracle player ^^

tnx. yeah i usually get my 5-0's by playing against at least 1 ant or miracle player. so im quite lucky. these matches are not that great tbh.

[otisblair]

Hi everyone, first time poster. I built a version of Eldrazi a couple of weeks ago on MODO and have been really enjoying playing it. Thanks to everyone on this thread for great insight. I'm still trying to working on the best build for me and wanted to share my thoughts. I have been running the wg splash version and am very high on Eldrazi Displacer so plan on sticking with the white splash till something pushes me off. I like the World Breaker out of the board but don't think it's essential. Here's my current record followed by my current build with thoughts:

My MODO handle: TheSinisterSecret
Results through 4 leagues:

(Hope it's not tacky to post your opponents by MODO name)
League 1
Blood_Ninja69 miracles 2-0
unkoman miracles 2-0
YaTree miracles 1-2
Metznich clerics 2-1
kozel miracles 2-1

League 2
Gr8gorilla79 jeskai delver 2-0
Caveman56 shardless 2-1
Kevinliu23 bug delver 2-1
Bahra shardless 1-2
itilgor grixis delver 1-2

League 3
EronRelentless shardless 1-2
YaTree miracles 1-2
r4wk5t4r shardless 2-1
ORDAL ur delver 1-2
hvolk74 shardless 2-1

League 4
Murilo death and taxes 2-1
Kumazemi miracles 2-1
Grahilah shardless 2-0
PCK colorless eldrazi 2-1
Negator77 dark depths 0-2

Vs. Miracles: 4-2
Vs. Shardless: 4-2
Vs. Delver: 2-2
Vs. Clerics: 1-0
Vs. Dark Depths: 0-1
Vs. Edlrazi: 1-0
Vs. Death and Taxes: 1-0

MAIN DECK

Mana base: 27 sources. I haven't needed to touch this since I started playing it. Have been very happy with the splits. As much as Eye of Ugin is key, the deck really can't afford dead cards in hand so I would be very reluctant to go to 4. I would love access to Wasteland but will continue to leave it out while I need colored sources.
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Ancient Tomb
3 City of Traitors
3 Eye of Ugin
2 Brushland
2 Karakas
2 Mishra's Factory
3 Lotus Petal

Spells: 12. The industry standard seems just right to me at this point so haven't made any changes.
4 Chalice of the Void
2 Thorn of Amethyst
2 Dismember
2 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Warping Wail

Critters: 21. This is where I diverge the most from the group think. I have been very underwhelmed by Endless One. His/her (?) versatility is great but it has been incredibly easy for my opponents to answer it and it gets hit by random things like explosives or flickerwisp or decay. So I went from 4/0 to 3/1 to now a 2/2 split of Endless One and Phyrexian Metamorph. 3/1 split is likely better and I'll figure it out as I play more but I like the 2/2 for now so I can actually see them both in action. Metamorph is also nice with Displacer. I mentioned Displacer in the top of the post, but it does a lot of little things that have won me games I could not have won otherwise. I'd go to 4 but when I don't have a white source or Cavern, I don't want them to rot in hand. Finally, Endbringer has been awesome. It's not necessary in every game, but boy can this card ruin parity for my opponent. I am on 2 and don't expect to change that any time soon.
4 Eldrazi Mimic
3 Eldrazi Displacer
2 Endless One
2 Phyrexian Metamorph
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
2 Endbringer

SIDEBOARD

Removal suite: This is jumped around but have been happy with the current set. Ratchet bomb is a nice early play to handle the boarded in hate cards, specifically Moat and Blood Moon. Also good against both the aggro and mid-range opponents (Delver, Shardless). All is Dust is just great but like the split with the Bombs since late game blue decks can counter the big spell. Spatial Contortion is fine. Like this over Dismember right now for the aggro decks where I don't want to pay the life. But I could be talked into something else.
2 All Is Dust
1 Spatial Contortion
2 Ratchet Bomb

Extra tools: These could be any number of things. I am up on Needle right now for the mirror Wastelands and general versatility. World Breaker is mostly fun. Good in the mirror and is bigger than opposing Tarmos.
2 Pithing Needle
2 World Breaker

Fighting through the spell decks: This seems pretty standard so no extra thoughts.
2 Thorn of Amethyst
1 Warping Wail

Graveyard package: I've struggled with this. Started with 4 Leylines and am now on the following. Hasn't been super relevant for the matchups I've had but would rather have a versatile package here than the Leylines. This deck doesn't seem to want the card disadvantage that comes from uncastable Leylines in hand or the mulligans required to hit one. Running 1 RiP since it is not always easy to cast from hand but is nice against certain decks. Am considering Relic or Extraction but don't like the non-bo with Chalice.
1 Rest in Peace
2 Faerie Macabre

[Noloam_]

these channelfire ball guys used my list and quoted a wrong card XD

http://www.channelfireball.com/articles/the-top-5-legacy-decks/?utm_content=buffer73b61&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=buffer

[SecondSunrise]

Well, to be fair their Endbringer is clearly superior to our Endbringer flavorwise... list seems really solid, still really want to play with Displacer though... Sigh

[Noloam_]

hehehe a guy commented that that sahauku endbringer was a great tech, because i run the urborgs XD

well.... i will never agree on the displacer thing i guess :really:

[Barook]

well.... i will never agree on the displacer thing i guess :really:
Just like there are different schools of Miracles - Legendary, Ponder, Mentor, etc.

Both builds have advantages and disadvantages. It's also a matter of playstyle. I can't bring myself to play lists without Displacer again.

[darkgh0st]

I lost to UR Delver tonight. G1 was taken by PoP+Fireblast, G2 was mana-screw, and Blood Mooned.
My 2nd loss was to the mirror. He basically broke through game 3 via Eldrazi Obligator.
I feel like the more Eldrazis we see, the more I want to pack Obligators in the SB to break the mirror match-ups.
Also, both matches I had to mull a couple of times. The deck feels like it doesn't mull too well.

[maraxusofkelds]

I lost to UR Delver tonight. G1 was taken by PoP+Fireblast, G2 was mana-screw, and Blood Mooned.
My 2nd loss was to the mirror. He basically broke through game 3 via Eldrazi Obligator.
I feel like the more Eldrazis we see, the more I want to pack Obligators in the SB to break the mirror match-ups.
Also, both matches I had to mull a couple of times. The deck feels like it doesn't mull too well.

You shouldnt be mulling that much. Mull if u dont get a sol land + another land in game 1. Game 2 and 3 it kinda depends on whether leyline or a lock piece is crucial.

[Noloam_]

i almost mull never to five. the scry-rule is great. but sometimes modo can give you 6 lands and you mull into no lands after that. that can really screw up your run


@barook. i agree with that. I also think that the perfect build depends on the meta.

[SecondSunrise]

@barook. i agree with that. I also think that the perfect build depends on the meta.

This seems worthy of further discussion. What are the metas each version is best against? From reading the last 10 pages or so, 3 main builds seem to have emerged:

1. The "no frills" approach, e.g. of Noloam, that plays straight colorless with additional maindeck lock pieces like Thorn;

2. Barooks initial Wg build, with more colored sources for Displacer and a light splash for Wolrd Breaker;

3. The new RW 'monstosities' with duals and even more petals to facilitate both Displacer and Obligator.

My initial intuition would be that the first is best against all the unfair decks but struggles against fair controlling decks like Shardless, wheres Barooks list is somewhat in the middle; finally the obligator list is maybe best against fair decks and the mirror, but has the most problems against unfair decks because there are more dead MD cards.

What do you all think about this? More concreteley, what do you think will be the best list for the upcoming GP's, where the meta is different than on MTGO?
Of course we could say that it's a question of 'preference' or 'taste', but that feels like a lazy way to say 'i don't want to think about it' :-P

[Barook]

This seems worthy of further discussion. What are the metas each version is best against? From reading the last 10 pages or so, 3 main builds seem to have emerged:

1. The "no frills" approach, e.g. of Noloam, that plays straight colorless with additional maindeck lock pieces like Thorn;

2. Barooks initial Wg build, with more colored sources for Displacer and a light splash for Wolrd Breaker;

3. The new RW 'monstosities' with duals and even more petals to facilitate both Displacer and Obligator.

My initial intuition would be that the first is best against all the unfair decks but struggles against fair controlling decks like Shardless, wheres Barooks list is somewhat in the middle; finally the obligator list is maybe best against fair decks and the mirror, but has the most problems against unfair decks because there are more dead MD cards.

What do you all think about this? More concreteley, what do you think will be the best list for the upcoming GP's, where the meta is different than on MTGO?
Of course we could say that it's a question of 'preference' or 'taste', but that feels like a lazy way to say 'i don't want to think about it' :-P
Badook? :eyebrow:

NoLoam's colorless build does seem to be better vs Miracles. Also probably vs Storm, but whether or not you really need the extra help against them is up to debate.

My Wg build is better vs anything that cheats fatties into play (Reanimator, S&T), fatties in general, the mirror and decks with equipment.

The RW build is even stronger in the mirror, but at the cost of consistency and resilistence, namely losing Factory and Reshaper.

[SecondSunrise]

[QUOTE=Barook;951825]Badook? :eyebrow:

Lol, I edited that typo 1 minute after posting, but obviously you still saw it X-D

[the_goat]

http://s33.postimg.org/x2eq5fqxb/Untitled.jpg (http://postimage.org/)

4-1 today on mtgo with this build inspired by Qernavak's list (http://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/421438#online)

W 2-0 vs dredge
W 2-0 vs eldrazi colorless
W 2-1 vs 12 post
L 2-1 vs shardless
W 2-0 vs shardless

i do not own the second waste and i replaced it with a second tower of the magistrate...and...well it saved me against shardless 2 games out of 2...making me attack for lethal thru his agent and strix...and was quite good in the match i lost vs shardless...

monolith saved me one game against 12post where i had eye of ugin and city but not other mana...and i topdeck'd smasher...with mimic in play ans other creatures...tap city cast monolith cast smasher...attack for lethal damages...rest of tournament...never drawn...

I like the list I will try to give it another spin tomorrow if i find time...

I am still super disappointed by all is dust...i draw it often and I am never ever able to cast it...reason being:
- they waste one of my lands
- they discard it before i reach 7 mana
- there is thorn on the table
- i took too much damage from tombs/dismember

is there someone that has good experience with all is dust? do we have other alternatives?

[Noloam_]

Badook? :eyebrow:

NoLoam's colorless build does seem to be better vs Miracles. Also probably vs Storm, but whether or not you really need the extra help against them is up to debate.

My Wg build is better vs anything that cheats fatties into play (Reanimator, S&T), fatties in general, the mirror and decks with equipment.

The RW build is even stronger in the mirror, but at the cost of consistency and resilistence, namely losing Factory and Reshaper.

I can agree with all of this. I think my build is more of a eldrazi stompy deck (wastelands and lockpieces). Where your deck is more of an eldrazi aggro deck.


@goat

I know dem feelz man! But the point is, once you have seen it in action, you dont go back. It is a 7 mana i win spell. I really dislike the card, when i have 2 in my hand. Thats why i believe that playing 2 is the max. Vs nicfit, shardless, elves,
Merfolk etc, they are just dead when this card hits the table. I do think it is the weakest card from my sideboard

I also wonder, why you whould play all is dust & thorn is some matches? I never do that. Except for miracles, i bring in one vs bloodmoon and moat

[Deckerator]

Played at a small local tournament yesterday.
We played five rounds and i ended 4:1.
I still play the W/G-List.

We had three people at burn yesterday. I was paired against one and lost it because i couldnt race him.

1:2 vs Burn
2:0 vs "NicFit selfmade"
2:1 vs Colorless Eldrazi
2:1 vs Elves
2:0 vs Lands

Against Colorless Eldrazi Displacer and World Breaker were the real deal. In this match i wasnt as fast as he was but i had the better top curve.

Against Lands i could slow him down with a Chalice @1 and beat him down with the Eldrazis fast enough. Game 2 i mulled to 6 for the Leyline and a reshaper. I drew a Chalice and had enough time to pressure him down although he had three Maze of Ith.

The one match i lost against elves was G2 because he had Thoughtseize for my Chalice and got the Creatures with Cabal Therapy out of my hand. I could recover but he played
Wren's Run Packmaster and created to many Wolf tokens and i lost. In the third game i had turn 1 Chalice @1 and turn 3 Jitte and attacked him to keep his creatures in check.

Do you have experience with Worship against Burn? I think Burn is the hardest match up for me. What cards are good against burn?

[dr.philgood]

Disclaimer I have not tested this.
Powdered drazi

Creatures... Normal
4 tks
4 reality smasher
4 endless one
3 matter reshaper
3 drazi mimic
2 end bringer
1 phyrexian metamorphosis

Non creatures
4 chalice of the void
1 thorn
1 sphere
2 jittie
1 dismember
1 warping wail
1 mox diamond
2 serium powder

Lands
4 eldrazi temple
4 ancient tomb
2 city of trators
2 or 1 eye of ugin
2 crystal vein
1 tomb of yawgmoth
1 wastes
3 cavern of souls
2 mishras factory
1 gem stone caverns
4 swamps

Sideboard
4 leyline of the void
4 helm of awakening
2 serium powder
3 trinisphere
2 rhystic tutor




..... The mana base may need a bit of work.... And the rhystic tutors may just be bad... But it's a neat and clean transitional sb

[the_goat]

Played at a small local tournament yesterday.
We played five rounds and i ended 4:1.
I still play the W/G-List.

We had three people at burn yesterday. I was paired against one and lost it because i couldnt race him.

1:2 vs Burn
2:0 vs "NicFit selfmade"
2:1 vs Colorless Eldrazi
2:1 vs Elves
2:0 vs Lands

Against Colorless Eldrazi Displacer and World Breaker were the real deal. In this match i wasnt as fast as he was but i had the better top curve.

Against Lands i could slow him down with a Chalice @1 and beat him down with the Eldrazis fast enough. Game 2 i mulled to 6 for the Leyline and a reshaper. I drew a Chalice and had enough time to pressure him down although he had three Maze of Ith.

The one match i lost against elves was G2 because he had Thoughtseize for my Chalice and got the Creatures with Cabal Therapy out of my hand. I could recover but he played
Wren's Run Packmaster and created to many Wolf tokens and i lost. In the third game i had turn 1 Chalice @1 and turn 3 Jitte and attacked him to keep his creatures in check.

Do you have experience with Worship against Burn? I think Burn is the hardest match up for me. What cards are good against burn?
Zuran orb has 2 spots in my side...it nullifies their Price of progress...i love it in mirror as well...where tombs/dismember are lowering your life total...and you can transform a redundant eye/urborg in mana and lives...

Sent from my LG-H525n using Tapatalk

[Barook]

I also wonder, why you whould play all is dust & thorn is some matches? I never do that.
This. Thorn and All is Dust is a nonbo.

As for All is Dust, third time's the charm (http://i.imgur.com/I19IRyD.jpg). At least my opponent took it with humor that he got AiDs 3 times in a row. :tongue:

[Noloam_]

hahaha thats great :). i hope shardless will leave the building soon

[razvan]

I finally got around to playing a tournament with this monstrosity:


4 Eldrazi Mimic
4 Eldrazi Displacer
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
4 Matter Reshaper
2 World Breaker

4 Chalice of the Void
3 Lotus Petal
3 Warping Wail
2 Spatial Contortion
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Forcefield

4 Ancient Tomb
4 Brushland
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Eldrazi Temple
2 City of Traitors
2 Eye of Ugin
2 Karakas
2 Mishra's Factory


4 Leyline of the Void
3 Thorn of Amethist
3 All Is Dust
2 Containment Priest
1 Spatial Contortion
1 Helm of Obedience
1 Endbringer


Went 3-0-2 in the round robin, beating deadguy ale, delver and aggro loam. Ended up losing to the Deadguy player in the top 8 when he ran out triple wasteland, double vindicate, hardcast shriekmaw on a TKS, then I couldn't get enough lands and started discarding Reality Smashers.

The deck is great fun. I am missing a 3rd Eye (cannot find it). All is Dust is amazing, but of course, not when you are being wastelanded 5 times.

From what little I know, Matter Reshaper is ridiculously good. I never managed to even draw one World Breaker, but have been good had I drawn it when I had more than one land in play :P

3 Warping Wail and 2/1 Spatial Contortion are amazing. Didn't play Storm or Reanimator, but I did bring in Leylines against the Loam player.

A lot of Eldrazi means I will use Obligators. Maybe even Kozilek's Return since I will be able to cast it.

Either way, a decent start, seems fun?

[metronome2charisma]

Played a gpt today, 5 rounds. went 3-2. the meta has really shifted lately as i'm not 4-0ing and 3-1ing every event anymore.

rd 1 elves 2-0 chalice does work he never saw a cavern.

rd 2 12 post 0-2. He won the die roll and was always one step ahead of me and a mull to 4 game 2 sucked.

rd 3 grixis delver 2-0 smashed him both games i won game 2 at 1 life.

rd 4 rug delver 1-2 he is a friend of mine so we knew it was fairly die-roll dependent . He won the die roll. I lost with him at 3.

rd 5 lands 2-0 He has turn three merit liege i have karakas . Game two i mull to 6 he plays a stage, i play an ancient tomb and a lotus petal he plays a dark depths and passes. i e.o.t. a warping wail to make a dude .Untap, play an eldrazi temple play a endbringer . The game ends a few turns later with a factory and mimic attacks.

Really liked the list i played ,i would make some changes but i want to think about it .

More thoughts later.

[lilevo]

So I won a local legacy event today we had 26 players and we were playing for a Tundra!

This is the list I ended up playing it's noloam's list -2 thorns in the SB + 2 spatial contortion, our meta tend not to have a lot of combo decks and more creatures. I don't remember all my matches in details but I will do my best:

Rd1 Manaless Dredge 1-0

I have played against this player before and I know what deck he is on, so I win the die roll and proceed to choose to draw first :tongue: I win game 1 with something like turn 1 mimic, turn 2 reshaper turn 3 TKS.

G2: I tried to mull into leyline failed and lost.

G3: I have a leyline in my opened and I win.

Rd2 2-0

I get paired against a friend that is playing UWR Delver, we playtested before and I knew this MU can be hard.

G1: He gets a batterskull in play and I can't find a way to deal with it.

G2: I have a CoV on 1 and CoV2, eventually I landed a Smasher and won.

G3: I don't remember this game very well but I think I resolved a CoV=1 early and was able to resolve my creatures.

Rd 3 3-0

OmniTell

G1: he combos me on turn 2.

G2: I play a sphere of resistance on turn 1, which turned out to be just enough to keep him from going off.

G3: TSK on turn 2 takes a SnT from his hand, after that I played a thorn, the game got interesting when my opp cast cunning wish and realized he forgot to move his intuition from his deck back to his SB and I won.


Rd4 4-0

Shardless BUG

G1: I'm able to curve out perfectly with mimic, reshaper, TKS and Smasher.

G2: I didn't draw enough creatures and he played Scavenge Ooze and Goyf and beat me when I couldn't answer his threats.

G3: I keep an aggressive hand since we have very few time on the round, we actually didn't have enough time to finish the game but I was playing down, and the board looked in my favor so my opp was nice to concede to me.

Rd 5 5-0

Goblins

G1: My opp tells me he is a new player and if he does anything weird or wrong not to get too upset, he keeps a hand that doesn't really do anything until turn 3 when he plays a lackey, I kill it with wail, the following turn I TKS and I see a hand with Krenko and Blood Moon, I have jitte in hand so I take blood moon and let him keep krenko, eventually I have TKS and smasher with jitte equiped and win the game.

G2: I play a TSK turn 2 and see a hand with 2 blood moons and one rabblemaster I take rabblemaster, next I play a 4/4 endless one and win the game.

I really wanted to play the last round to try to be the top seed going into top 8.


Quarter Finals

Reanimator

G1: Ok so at this point I think I was already super lucky to beat OmniTell and now I have to beat another hard MU. My opener was just too slow to beat reanimator and had not disruption, my 6 was a little better, he kept a hand with no lands, I play a mimic on turn 1, he draws doesn't play a land and discards Tyrant, I play TKS see a hand with 2 petals, exhume, animate dead, careful study and probe; I think I take careful study. He never drew a land and I kept playing creatures.

G2: I have leyline in my opener, he can't really do much and I just kept playing creatures every turn.


Semi Finals

I play the same UWR Delver player from the swiss.

G1: I have to mull to 5 and lost to double delvers, funny though I actually had the win on the swing back with two smashers so not bad for a mull to 5.

G2: I resolve a CoV=1 later tower deals with a germ token also in the same turn I play a needle naming batterskull, smasher+TKS takes care of the game.

G3: We both mull to 6, I don't remember the whole game but I remember him not having swords to plowshares, he plays a meddling mage and names Smasher I have double TKS in hand, the first one sees 2 bolts FoW and wasteland, I take one bolt later he plays a SFM, I play the second TKS and choose the batterskull he just searched up, later he has to chump block with meddling mage, and I am able to swing for the win with smasher.


Finals!

Well after going undefeated I was finally on camera :laugh:


https://www.twitch.tv/romariovidal/v/69153955

[Noloam_]

well played (except for the attack with the 2/2 endless one into the goyf, but you already saw that :)).its funny to see that the bug player boarded in winter orb XD, our Eye's dont care.

i btw dont know why you whould cut the thorns side, instead of the spheres. the spheres are just worser thorns

[Barook]

@lilevo: Gratz!

Another league run, another 4-1, picking up my first loss against the Colorless Eldrazi build in the last round (10-1 now). :rolleyes: But his hand was simply too stacked G2 and G3.

New league run, 2-0 so far:
What suprises me is how I manage to keep winning vs Aggro Loam. Between Wastelands, KotR and Loam, one would expect a very shitty match-up, yet I somehow still pulls wins out of my ass. 5-0 in matches so far, but maybe I'm just incredibly lucky.

[lilevo]

lol that attack was real bad btw as far as remember that was my only punt the whole day, the sphere thing might sound stupid but while I sleeving up the deck at 2 am I realized that I only own 2 thorn of amethyst and I really hate to play with proxies so yeah that's why I played with that list.

[Nocley]

The Aggro Loam matchup is really interesting in that every player I talked to says its very much in favor for their deck (claiming to go X-0), but my testing shows that it's very 50/50. They may be slightly favored against the colorless version, but I'd put it even if not slightly unfavored against the W (or RW, not sure where Barook is w.r.t. obligators and the red splash right now) version. Displacers, and their lack of removal really prevents them from landing much of a kill. Postboard, Eldrazi either kills them super fast when they stumble, or just clogs the board until All is Dust wins it for you. This is the matchup where more than anything else I want to see Endbringers.

With that being said, it leads to a discussion I was having with someone I was testing with last night - is the success of the colorless version online due to the lack of decks like DnT and Lands, where displacer (at least on paper) seems miles better? For those playing the colorless version, how do you think it goes against those decks?

[Noloam_]

The Aggro Loam matchup is really interesting in that every player I talked to says its very much in favor for their deck (claiming to go X-0), but my testing shows that it's very 50/50. They may be slightly favored against the colorless version, but I'd put it even if not slightly unfavored against the W (or RW, not sure where Barook is w.r.t. obligators and the red splash right now) version. Displacers, and their lack of removal really prevents them from landing much of a kill. Postboard, Eldrazi either kills them super fast when they stumble, or just clogs the board until All is Dust wins it for you. This is the matchup where more than anything else I want to see Endbringers.

With that being said, it leads to a discussion I was having with someone I was testing with last night - is the success of the colorless version online due to the lack of decks like DnT and Lands, where displacer (at least on paper) seems miles better? For those playing the colorless version, how do you think it goes against those decks?

aggromloam is a ok match. you can get wasteland locked or walk into turn 2 lilly. but sometimes they have hand with teeg, punishing fire and liliana and you have just a big board of fatties. after boarding bring in the leyline: no more loam (noloam ;)), 2/2 knights, dead shaman and no punishing fire combo, makes the deck less impressive.

i played a lot vs D&T and is it great for the collorless build. having 4 mother of ruins blanks main is sweet. i disagree that displacer is miles better there. if i land an endbringer in the D&T match, it is lights out most of the time, because they usualy use there plows early game.

lands is indeed a very bad match up for colorless

[planeswalkerzen]

@lilevo: Gratz!

Another league run, another 4-1, picking up my first loss against the Colorless Eldrazi build in the last round (10-1 now). :rolleyes: But his hand was simply too stacked G2 and G3.

New league run, 2-0 so far:
What suprises me is how I manage to keep winning vs Aggro Loam. Between Wastelands, KotR and Loam, one would expect a very shitty match-up, yet I somehow still pulls wins out of my ass. 5-0 in matches so far, but maybe I'm just incredibly lucky.

Do you have a link to your decklist and possibly a SB guide? I keep seeing your name on this thread but I haven't been able to find your list! Thanks a lot :)

[Noloam_]

5-0'ed today. it was perhaps the hardest 5-0 ever, with almost all 2-1's


won from:

miracles (h0cusp0cus ^^. im doing my best to get him back to eldrazi ;))
miracles
jund
esper stoneblade
colorless eldrazi

my stomach turned around when i was 4-0 and the jund guy topdecked the lilly. while he was on 3 with no board and i had smasher. but thank God for the all is dust topdeck :).

i think i am close to the perfect colorless landbase now (i've tried combinations of 3/4 factory, 1/2 urborg, 3/4 eyes, 2/3/4 citys, 0/2/3/4 wastelands. i will discuss it with riehu in the future.

i boarded out 4 chalices, 2 warping wail and 2 spirit guides vs jund. i wanted to try 4 leyline, 2 rachet bombs and 2 all is dust. i still dont know if it is correct. but the punishing fire combo and goyfs can be really annoying

[razvan]

Do you have a link to your decklist and possibly a SB guide? I keep seeing your name on this thread but I haven't been able to find your list! Thanks a lot :)
It's on page 22.

[the_goat]

i think i am close to the perfect colorless landbase now (i tried combinations of 3/4 factory, 1/2 urborg, 3/4 eyes, 3/4 citys, 0/2/3/4 wastelands. i will discuss it with riehu in the future.

do you mind sharing your numbers?

[iostream]

The Aggro Loam matchup is really interesting in that every player I talked to says its very much in favor for their deck (claiming to go X-0), but my testing shows that it's very 50/50. They may be slightly favored against the colorless version, but I'd put it even if not slightly unfavored against the W (or RW, not sure where Barook is w.r.t. obligators and the red splash right now) version. Displacers, and their lack of removal really prevents them from landing much of a kill. Postboard, Eldrazi either kills them super fast when they stumble, or just clogs the board until All is Dust wins it for you. This is the matchup where more than anything else I want to see Endbringers.

With that being said, it leads to a discussion I was having with someone I was testing with last night - is the success of the colorless version online due to the lack of decks like DnT and Lands, where displacer (at least on paper) seems miles better? For those playing the colorless version, how do you think it goes against those decks?In my experience, Aggro Loam is every bit as bad of a matchup as they make it out to be. Maybe I'm playing the deck wrong, maybe you're playing against weak 4c loam opponents, but good mulliganing by the 4c loam player always seems to result in them having the relevant pieces. The matchup in fact seems to be getting worse now that maindeck Depths/Stage and StP in the side are becoming more common thanks to Kronberger.

[Noloam_]

do you mind sharing your numbers?

i think my list will be on mtg goldfish any moment.

4 Cavern of Souls
2 City of Traitors
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Eye of Ugin
3 Mishra's Factory
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2 Wasteland

maby even 1 city of traitors is the best build. there is almost no situation in which i like that card. having 2 cities in your opener is a mull. having 1 normal land and a city is very close to a mull. i only like it against decks like belcher or ANT, in which i can drop a turn 1 discoball. 4 cities is just madness

[the_goat]

i think my list will be on mtg goldfish any moment.

4 Cavern of Souls
2 City of Traitors
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Eye of Ugin
3 Mishra's Factory
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2 Wasteland

maby even 1 city of traitors is the best build. there is almost no situation in which i like that card. having 2 cities in your opener is a mull. having 1 normal land and a city is very close to a mull. i only like it against deck like ANT, in which i can drop a turn 1 discoball. 4 cities is just madness

Thx!
I noticed you do not run Tower of the magistrate anymore...I loved it everytime I drew it...I even tested a build with double tower...anyway...de gustibus non est disputandum I suppose...

With my playgroup we were wondering if this deck (colorless build) could support full set of wasteland and crucible of words (with Zuran Orb perhaps) in the side
Did anyone ever tested the card? Recursion of Waste and/or recovering your lands seems solid...

[Noloam_]

Thx!
I noticed you do not run Tower of the magistrate anymore...I loved it everytime I drew it...I even tested a build with double tower...anyway...de gustibus non est disputandum I suppose...

With my playgroup we were wondering if this deck (colorless build) could support full set of wasteland and crucible of words (with Zuran Orb perhaps) in the side
Did anyone ever tested the card? Recursion of Waste and/or recovering your lands seems solid...

yes tower is still great and i think it is reasonable to play them. i think the 2th urborg is better. making a mishras workshop out of 1 of my 4 eyes feels just abusive. your burn and tempomatch also becomes mutch better, taping the tomb can cost you games.

i think playing 1 or 2 zuron orbs is reasonable. i dont think i want to play crucible. eldrazi is an aggro deck, not a control deck.



2th 5-0 in two days.

Miracles (2-0)
tinfins (2-1)
Shardless bug (2-0)
Esper blade (2-0)
ANT (2-0)

[toor]

So i've noticed that the colorless version only seems to help vs our already good matchups. Though the mana is a bit more stable.

The matchups I consider tough and expect to be a reasonable amount of GP.

In anticipation of columbus (Most popular top)

Miracles (good for all versions of the deck).
Delver Variants (UR being the hardest) is colorless best here?
Shardless BUG (not good for both variants, colorless better?)
Death and Taxes (good for all versions)
Mirror (More popular?, better for colored)
Storm (good for all versions better for colorless)
Show and Tell (Might be more popular than storm, worse for colorless by a lot)
Infect (Haven't tested, but displacer >> reshaper)
Lands (Bad for both versions, better for colored)

Anyone disagree with my characterizations? I played some more against grixis delver and have decided that matchup wasn't as bad as my initial testing, but still not great. Still don't have a sb plan I love, but 2 spatial contortions are a big game. The new rules on delver, make Ratchet bomb worse as well.

[Cire]

I am still fooling around with that WRG version with factories, but this is what I think the break down is personally (someone correct me if I am wrong):

Which Version is best against which decks:



Playing Against
Colorless
WG
WR


Miracles
3
1
2



Delver Variants
3
1
2


Shardless BUG
1
3
2


Death and Taxes
1
2
3



Mirror
3
2
1



Storm
1
3
2


Show and Tell
3
2
1


Infect
3
2
1


Lands
3
2
1




I think the above list is why I feel that the WRG mix is a viable and important next step for the colored versions, since it helps you be aggressive with obligator when you need it, while maintaining Breaker in the side and Displacer in the main.

[Noloam_]

I am still fooling around with that WRG version with factories, but this is what I think the break down is personally (someone correct me if I am wrong):

Which Version is best against which decks:



Playing Against
Colorless
WG
WR


Miracles
3
1
2



Delver Variants
3
1
2


Shardless BUG
1
3
2


Death and Taxes
1
2
3



Mirror
3
2
1



Storm
1
3
2


Show and Tell
3
2
1


Infect
3
2
1


Lands
3
2
1




I think the above list is why I feel that the WRG mix is a viable and important next step for the colored versions, since it helps you be aggressive with obligator when you need it, while maintaining Breaker in the side and Displacer in the main.


i really have no clue how you came up with 3 for colorless against miracles, in this matrix. the colorless build is more favourable than any other eldrazi build, vs miracles i.m.o. i dont see the vallue in playing an obligator on a snapcaster mage here. the wastelands, endbringer and thorns from the colorless build are just insane.

i also think that the colorless build is bad vs shardless. so i whould put the WGR build 1st, the GW build 2th and the colorless 3th.

[the_goat]

I am still fooling around with that WRG version with factories, but this is what I think the break down is personally (someone correct me if I am wrong):

Which Version is best against which decks:



Playing Against
Colorless
WG
WR


Miracles
3
1
2



Delver Variants
3
1
2


Shardless BUG
1
3
2


Death and Taxes
1
2
3



Mirror
3
2
1



Storm
1
3
2


Show and Tell
3
2
1


Infect
3
2
1


Lands
3
2
1




I think the above list is why I feel that the WRG mix is a viable and important next step for the colored versions, since it helps you be aggressive with obligator when you need it, while maintaining Breaker in the side and Displacer in the main.

I am curious...why is colorless the weakest version vs STORM? and WG the best variant? what does displacer/breaker add to the matchup?

[Noloam_]

I am curious...why is colorless the weakest version vs STORM? and WG the best variant? what does displacer/breaker add to the matchup?

he means the best. 1 is the best. and that is for storm ofcourse correct due to thorn and wasteland

i think the colorless version is the best against all combo decks, accept for reanimator and sneaky show.

i also think the colorless version is favoured vs tin fins. displacer is not gonna do it. thorn slows them down.

http://oi66.tinypic.com/289x5pw.jpg

against tin fins the hate was real today. opening with leyline. he was stuck on 1 land. i played 2 needles on both fetches, had chalice on 0 and some discoballs. he had a 4/3 ooze ^^

[Cire]

i really have no clue how you came up with 3 for colorless against miracles, in this matrix. the colorless build is more favourable than any other eldrazi build, vs miracles i.m.o. i dont see the vallue in playing an obligator on a snapcaster mage here. the wastelands, endbringer and thorns from the colorless build are just insane.

i also think that the colorless build is bad vs shardless. so i whould put the WGR build 1st, the GW build 2th and the colorless 3th.

As I said, I made the chart quickly from personal experience. I did not play enough games for it to be completely accurate - and I welcome any input from you guys who have played more games with the colorless version (and more games in general).

I put Colorless 1st against Shardless, cause whenever I play it against shardless I find reshaper a MVP. Obligator and Displacer are great too, but I like reshaper in that matchup.

The main problem with my chart is that it doesn't show how close the decks are to each other - aka the distance between 1 and 2 and 2 and 3. As such the placement is almost entirely subjective.


I am curious...why is colorless the weakest version vs STORM? and WG the best variant? what does displacer/breaker add to the matchup?

1st means the best against a deck. Colorless WRECKS storm IMO.

[the_goat]

he means the best. 1 is the best. and that is for storm ofcourse correct due to thorn and wasteland

i think the colorless version is the best against all combo decks, accept for reanimator and sneaky show.

i also think the colorless version is favoured vs tin fins. displacer is not gonna do it. thorn slows them down.

http://oi66.tinypic.com/289x5pw.jpg

against tin fins the hate was real today. opening with leyline. he was stuck on 1 land. i played 2 needles on both fetches, had chalice on 0 and some discoballs. he had a 4/3 ooze ^^

love the screenshot with the face...are you coming to GP Prague? I live here...look forward to meet you...

so after latest 10-0 in 2 days are you ready to write a definitive list for me to test? with sideboard guide...I mean...what goes out and why is quite important for me to understand...

[Barook]

So i've noticed that the colorless version only seems to help vs our already good matchups. Though the mana is a bit more stable.

The matchups I consider tough and expect to be a reasonable amount of GP.

In anticipation of columbus (Most popular top)

Miracles (good for all versions of the deck).
Delver Variants (UR being the hardest) is colorless best here?
Shardless BUG (not good for both variants, colorless better?)
Death and Taxes (good for all versions)
Mirror (More popular?, better for colored)
Storm (good for all versions better for colorless)
Show and Tell (Might be more popular than storm, worse for colorless by a lot)
Infect (Haven't tested, but displacer >> reshaper)
Lands (Bad for both versions, better for colored)

Anyone disagree with my characterizations? I played some more against grixis delver and have decided that matchup wasn't as bad as my initial testing, but still not great. Still don't have a sb plan I love, but 2 spatial contortions are a big game. The new rules on delver, make Ratchet bomb worse as well.
I'm currently 9-2 vs Shardless, and those losses were mainly based on abyssal draws on my side. I feel favored, if not heavily favored, against Shardless now. I don't know why the colorless version has so much more trouble (since Displacer isn't very important here and two further dead cards MD in form of Thorn can't be the reason alone), but I suspect inferior SB tech for this match is the main problem here. You want spot removal and All is Dust, not Needles and Bombs.

Since D&T is so rare on MTGO, I can't say too much about the match-up. Calling it good seems a bit like a stretch, but I might be wrong.

Displacer is MVP vs Infect. I've rode a single Displacer to victory against them a few times already. Not sure how the colorless version perfoms here, but Displacer definitely makes this match favorable for Eldrazi.

@Noloam_: No wonder you can spam leagues when you do it at work. I'm jealous. :tongue:

[the_goat]

As I said, I made the chart quickly from personal experience. I did not play enough games for it to be completely accurate - and I welcome any input from you guys who have played more games with the colorless version (and more games in general).



1st means the best against a deck. Colorless WRECKS storm IMO.

got it now...I was mislead by seeing 3 against miracles (imo great matchup) and i thought 1 was worst...rather than other way round...

[the_goat]

Since D&T is so rare on MTGO, I can't say too much about the match-up. Calling it good seems a bit like a stretch, but I might be wrong.


i think good is perhaps too much but...if we land a chalice on 1 we stop their only removal...we have no problem of sort with mother of runes...we have tks to strip any equipment he can fetch with SFM...overall I think is favorable as a matchup...

[Cire]

got it now...I was mislead by seeing 3 against miracles (imo great matchup) and i thought 1 was worst...rather than other way round...

Yeah, as I tried to make clear in my edit, the problem with my chart is that a "3" doesn't mean it's a "bad" matchup. Miracles is a good matchup for each version. the numbers are only in comparision to the other builds of the deck. If I was to make the chart more accurate I could put up percentages for each version and miracles will all be 60:40 + for each version. However, I didn't put up percentages since I did not paly enough games against other decks with each type of build for my percentages to be more than just essentially made up numbers.

[Barook]

i think good is perhaps too much but...if we land a chalice on 1 we stop their only removal...we have no problem of sort with mother of runes...we have tks to strip any equipment he can fetch with SFM...overall I think is favorable as a matchup...
SFM can be troublesome if they can get equipment online and you don't have an answer. Plus, their mana denial is a bitch, namely Port.

They can also disable Chalice with Flickerwisp or kill an Endless One with it if we're unlucky. I'm a former D&T player, so I might have a different point of view how they can hurt us.

[iostream]

i think my list will be on mtg goldfish any moment.

4 Cavern of Souls
2 City of Traitors
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Eye of Ugin
3 Mishra's Factory
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2 Wasteland

maby even 1 city of traitors is the best build. there is almost no situation in which i like that card. having 2 cities in your opener is a mull. having 1 normal land and a city is very close to a mull. i only like it against decks like belcher or ANT, in which i can drop a turn 1 discoball. 4 cities is just madnessIsn't the same also true of Eye? Double Eye hands are mulligans. I don't love that City freezes our mana development when we play it, but surely it's better than drawing redundant Eyes? At least double City leads to a single turn where you get 4 universal mana instead of just two Eldrazi mana (which is what you get from double Eye).

[Noloam_]

love the screenshot with the face...are you coming to GP Prague? I live here...look forward to meet you...

so after latest 10-0 in 2 days are you ready to write a definitive list for me to test? with sideboard guide...I mean...what goes out and why is quite important for me to understand...

hehehe. im sorry i cant come, just bought a house. so i have to save some money.

my sideboard guide still stands. you can find it on page 36



@barook. yes im a financial manager. nobody can tell me shit :)

i dont bring in needle vs shardless bug. i think bomb is just better than simian spiritguide. that card looks silly after a hymn or thoughtseize

[toor]

I'm currently 9-2 vs Shardless, and those losses were mainly based on abyssal draws on my side. I feel favored, if not heavily favored, against Shardless now. I don't know why the colorless version has so much more trouble (since Displacer isn't very important here and two further dead cards MD in form of Thorn can't be the reason alone), but I suspect inferior SB tech for this match is the main problem here. You want spot removal and All is Dust, not Needles and Bombs.

Since D&T is so rare on MTGO, I can't say too much about the match-up. Calling it good seems a bit like a stretch, but I might be wrong.

Displacer is MVP vs Infect. I've rode a single Displacer to victory against them a few times already. Not sure how the colorless version perfoms here, but Displacer definitely makes this match favorable for Eldrazi.

@Noloam_: No wonder you can spam leagues when you do it at work. I'm jealous. :tongue:

Reshaper is better than any other 3 vs Shardless. And I play 3 AID no matter what configuration I play. I would be very surprised if the shardless matchup was that good. Especially if people are maindecking Toxic Deluge (which seems fairly common these days and I have been using mocs list for testing). Chalice does little (since they only have 8-10 1 drops). Their creatures are all great against you. They have the awkward combination of wastelands + discard. So you are incentivized to keep mana heavy hands/not mulligan, but then are weak to getting your hand picked apart.

I think for the most part its not relevant to consider miracles/storm matchups for talking about versions. Your matchup is good either way and whether you are slightly worse than another version shouldn't be much of a factor

D&T seemed great to me, though I had access to Ratchet Bomb and AIDs. I side out chalice and endless one (to blank flickerwhisp). You can get mana screwed of course, but they have so many dead cards g1 (mirran crusader/thalia/mother of runes) and your sb cards are insane bombs (no pun intended).

I should say that my opinions are based on:

3 local tournaments (2 of which has 1k+ prizes) and about 15-20 hours of testing with other very good players (though not really legacy specialists).

[maraxusofkelds]

Xmage has a disproportionately high number of death n taxes. The matchup is more like a coin flip. If they are on the play, t1 vial followed by mana disruption is enough to win them the game right there unless we get all our sol lands. Our creatures are better only if we can bring them out. The colorless version of eldrazi has almost no game vs them the moment equipmenr comes out, but the color versions can run displacee which is an absolute mvp. Blanking their equipment targets and serra avenger/crusader/batter germ esp when they try to equip is a killer. World breaker also solves both problems handily once the game drags out.

The matchup is unfavored for colorless and close to even or maybe slight favored at 55-45 for the w/g version.

[Noloam_]

Isn't the same also true of Eye? Double Eye hands are mulligans. I don't love that City freezes our mana development when we play it, but surely it's better than drawing redundant Eyes? At least double City leads to a single turn where you get 4 universal mana instead of just two Eldrazi mana (which is what you get from double Eye).

almost true. i keep all lot of times a hand with 2 eye and 1 land. if you play eye go. it catches a wasteland 9/10 times. i disagree with the last statement. you can get 4 mana in one turn and armageddon yourself afterwards. it might work in the combo matches, but you should try that once against control. 2 city of traitors is a house of cards. if you have urborg and redudant eyes, you can always use them as petals. that also why i run 2 urborgs

[Cire]

i think the colorless version is the best against all combo decks, accept for reanimator and sneaky show.

i also think the colorless version is favoured vs tin fins. displacer is not gonna do it. thorn slows them down.


Yeah if I was to add these decks to the chart (again through my own exprience, and also with the caveat that the difference between 1, 2, and 3 may be close or far depending on the matchup, aka the numbers are only regarding the relative stregnth of each build to each other.):




Playing Against
Colorless
WG
WR


Reanimator
3
2
1



Sneak
3
2
1


Tin Fins
1
2
3


Dredge
1
2
3

[the_goat]

12 players tonight in a bar in Prague...i won 4-0...noloam's list with one slight change in manabase...1 tower of magistrate instead of 3rd Mishra...and 2 zuran orb instead of 2 thorn of ametist

M1 won against 12post...i quickly won g1 with classic aggro approach mimic into fatties...g2 i think I have drawn both my 2 wasteland but I am not sure about it...i remember he had replies for my early treath...like grip for chalice and something else...i see his hand with TKS and i remove s&t leaving him 2 titans...but wastelanding his lonely green source...

M2 i win die roll and I start with eye and 2xmimic...endless one for 4 and my opponent scoops after casting thoughtseize...i have seen only basic mountain...basic swamp...seize...I have no idea on what he plays but I opt for a vs grixis delver side...
4leylines (gurmag/cabal/shaman) 2 ratchet 2 zuran orb
Obviously is reanimator but I keep a fast hand without leyline...
Land ritual seize on himself discard iona exhume...naming black...I have eye into mimic and endless one t1...tks on turn 2 and we are racong each other...last topdeck for me to win needs to be smasher...i draw cavern...g3 goes like g1...to fast for him...a TKS turn2 reveals 2x show and tell but no fatty...my mimic and TKS killed him...

M3 vs 4c delver - quick fast games where chalice dominates the board...i cast 2 of them for 1...killing his 2 strixes with warping wail and winning with good old mimic smasher duo...

M4 i lost g1 against aggro loam...he is super low with lives...but finds thespian stage woth KOTR on the board...blocks my smasher and fetch the combo...
I side 1xkarakas 4xleyline 2x revoker...g2 I win too fast for him that is stuck on lands with ny revoker naming mox diamond...g3 i start with leyline...game is not over and a fast liliana is getting out of control...end of his turn i make a 1/1 token to cover my TKS and remove 1 counter from Lili...I fond another seer and mishra to close the game...

Overall good games...I really hate loam decks...able to win out of nothing...

Sent from my LG-H525n using Tapatalk

[Barook]

Reshaper is better than any other 3 vs Shardless. And I play 3 AID no matter what configuration I play. I would be very surprised if the shardless matchup was that good. Especially if people are maindecking Toxic Deluge (which seems fairly common these days and I have been using mocs list for testing). Chalice does little (since they only have 8-10 1 drops). Their creatures are all great against you. They have the awkward combination of wastelands + discard. So you are incentivized to keep mana heavy hands/not mulligan, but then are weak to getting your hand picked apart.
While they do have very annoying cards that can crush you, they die like a bitch to hyper-aggro. And you only need to win 2 out of 3 games. Can't argue with results.

Another league run, another 4-1:

R1: UR Walker Control 2-0 (a weird brew Liliana and Jaces, not really good)
R2: Aggro Loam 2-1
R3: Infect 2-0 (win G1 despite mulling to 5 due to 1-lander/no-lander hand just on the back of a T2 topdecked Displacer. A single one with 3 mana open can completely ruin them. At 6 mana, it gets really ugly.)
R4: Merfolk 0-2 (had absolutely no business here - G1 he had double TNN, G2 he landed a T3 B2B, which catched me off-guard)
R5: UR Painter 2-1 (lost G2 because I put him on Miracles after crushing him with an amazing hand G1; G3, TKS + Chalice @1 was enough to ride the game to victory, despite being locked under a Blood Moon

[iostream]

Did people ever reach a definitive conclusion about Tower of the Magistrate? It seems like a good sideboard card that helps quite a lot against the equipment decks and Shardless BUG. It also does double-duty in the sideboard against D+T since it allows you to increase your land count to play through Wasteland/Port a bit better. This is all just theorycraft though, and looking through the last few pages, I haven't found any powerful opinions about the card.

[Silverflame]

Did people ever reach a definitive conclusion about Tower of the Magistrate? It seems like a good sideboard card that helps quite a lot against the equipment decks and Shardless BUG. It also does double-duty in the sideboard against D+T since it allows you to increase your land count to play through Wasteland/Port a bit better. This is all just theorycraft though, and looking through the last few pages, I haven't found any powerful opinions about the card.

You can also use it against merfolk to kill phantasmal image or unequip jitte.

[Noloam_]

12 players tonight in a bar in Prague...i won 4-0...noloam's list with one slight change in manabase...1 tower of magistrate instead of 3rd Mishra...and 2 zuran orb instead of 2 thorn of ametist

M1 won against 12post...i quickly won g1 with classic aggro approach mimic into fatties...g2 i think I have drawn both my 2 wasteland but I am not sure about it...i remember he had replies for my early treath...like grip for chalice and something else...i see his hand with TKS and i remove s&t leaving him 2 titans...but wastelanding his lonely green source...

M2 i win die roll and I start with eye and 2xmimic...endless one for 4 and my opponent scoops after casting thoughtseize...i have seen only basic mountain...basic swamp...seize...I have no idea on what he plays but I opt for a vs grixis delver side...
4leylines (gurmag/cabal/shaman) 2 ratchet 2 zuran orb
Obviously is reanimator but I keep a fast hand without leyline...
Land ritual seize on himself discard iona exhume...naming black...I have eye into mimic and endless one t1...tks on turn 2 and we are racong each other...last topdeck for me to win needs to be smasher...i draw cavern...g3 goes like g1...to fast for him...a TKS turn2 reveals 2x show and tell but no fatty...my mimic and TKS killed him...

M3 vs 4c delver - quick fast games where chalice dominates the board...i cast 2 of them for 1...killing his 2 strixes with warping wail and winning with good old mimic smasher duo...

M4 i lost g1 against aggro loam...he is super low with lives...but finds thespian stage woth KOTR on the board...blocks my smasher and fetch the combo...
I side 1xkarakas 4xleyline 2x revoker...g2 I win too fast for him that is stuck on lands with ny revoker naming mox diamond...g3 i start with leyline...game is not over and a fast liliana is getting out of control...end of his turn i make a 1/1 token to cover my TKS and remove 1 counter from Lili...I fond another seer and mishra to close the game...

Overall good games...I really hate loam decks...able to win out of nothing...

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gratz man! yeah me to noloam 4 life ;)

you also made a change for the revoker, if i read it correctly. what did you cut? also the question for you: why did you cut the thorn instead of the sphere? the sphere is a worse thorn

[maraxusofkelds]

Top 8'ed a local legacy event with 26 ppl. Lost 1-2 to painter at the end because of inexperience. I misplayed and didnt atk enough to kill his tezzzeret who ulted. Forgot ult at 4 fml. Should we bother running leylines on them?

The dnt player there said that he felt eldrazi was a bad matchup for them. I guess for them the matchup is really about if they can get wasteland and stoneforge. Its a close coin flip draw dependent matchup.

[the_goat]

gratz man! yeah me to noloam 4 life ;)

you also made a change for the revoker, if i read it correctly. what did you cut? also the question for you: why did you cut the thorn instead of the sphere? the sphere is a worse thorn

to be fair i arrived to the bar 10 mins before we were starting our friendly tournament...i just gave a quick glance at my side and i found revokers already sleeved there...i did not even think about replacing them...in regards to sphere/torn...it's funny because i do not own spheres...so i had 2 null rods in my side...but i remembered you mentioning discoballs...so i ripped 2 pieces of white paper...wrote sphere and sleeved them over the rods...but you are right...spheres are bad thorns...so...my sideboard was (and should have been)

2 revokers (should be needles)
2 spheres (should be thorns #3 and #4)
4 leylines
2 zuran orbs (you play spheres instead...but in Prague there are always 2/3 burn players at every tournament...yesterday only one...but i like a lot orbs in the mirror too...)
2 ratchet bombs
1 karakas
2 all is dust

[Noloam_]

to be fair i arrived to the bar 10 mins before we were starting our friendly tournament...i just gave a quick glance at my side and i found revokers already sleeved there...i did not even think about replacing them...in regards to sphere/torn...it's funny because i do not own spheres...so i had 2 null rods in my side...but i remembered you mentioning discoballs...so i ripped 2 pieces of white paper...wrote sphere and sleeved them over the rods...but you are right...spheres are bad thorns...so...my sideboard was (and should have been)

2 revokers (should be needles)
2 spheres (should be thorns #3 and #4)
4 leylines
2 zuran orbs (you play spheres instead...but in Prague there are always 2/3 burn players at every tournament...yesterday only one...but i like a lot orbs in the mirror too...)
2 ratchet bombs
1 karakas
2 all is dust

sweet you can play with proxies :). yeah null rod is not good, it turns of your jittes and factory pomping.


any way your deck worked ^^

[the_goat]

sweet you can play with proxies :). yeah null rod is not good, it turns of your jittes and factory pomping.


any way your deck worked ^^

we normally don't run proxy events...but as the legacy GP is in Prague a lot of non legacy aficionados are now showing up for legacy testing...we gather in pubs or bars and we test until you are too tired to think...or until the bar closes!

[Polishguy00]

SFM can be troublesome if they can get equipment online and you don't have an answer. Plus, their mana denial is a bitch, namely Port.

They can also disable Chalice with Flickerwisp or kill an Endless One with it if we're unlucky. I'm a former D&T player, so I might have a different point of view how they can hurt us.

I have the WG version you run in paper. My buddy plays D&T and I think D&T is slightly favored in our testing. The blink, tap down plus equipment plan is quite effective. If they get the "bad" side of their deck, it can be easy but it also can get grindy post-board. This gives an advantage to their fliers. Winnable, but not easy at all. Shockingly, the best games still seem to be all about T2 Thought-Knot. It is also nice to shut off their moms.

I would guess the speed of the colorless version may give it a better advantage.

[Dice_Box]

sweet you can play with proxies :). yeah null rod is not good, it turns of your jittes and factory pomping.
Unactivated factories are not Artifacts. You can use them to pump. Turns off the block and pump trick though.

[Noloam_]

the block pump thing is a big deal

[TTX]

A Mishras Factory cannot pump (itself or others) if it has summoning sickness. Many people forget this.


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[RhoxWarMonk]

A Mishras Factory cannot pump (itself or others) if it has summoning sickness. Many people forget this.


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The "or others" is only true if the Factory has been activated into a 2/2. If it's still a land, it is not affected by summoning sickness and can pump another factory using it's second tap ability.

[Riehu]

Been touring around Europe with my wife so haven't had time to play too much but I have to admit played a lot in March and April so feel good about going to Prague in two weeks. During the past 5 days or so I have tested my old Wb version and Noloam's build (with minor tweak to sb (and lands after talking with Noloam himself)) and managed to 5-0 yesterday and same today with the colorless build. So I think that's the way to go for me as won't have too much time after today either, hopefully some.

Who is coming to GP Prague?

[Noloam_]

gratz man! i hope we now finally cracked the perfect build

[iostream]

For those of us in the States going to Columbus, I think the Wx build still has merit just because D+T and Lands are very popular in paper here whereas they're pretty rare online due to the price of Rishadan Port. Actully, this is my general suspicion about why the colorless build seems to perform more consistently than the Displacer build, although I could be wrong.

[nodahero]

Is there currently a semi-solidified W/x build? I used to play UW in modern so I was hoping to play something similar, but I haven't followed legacy closely in 2 years.

I did glance through the thread, but I didn't see a set-ish list. I was curious about the GW lists that people kept refernencing {i presume that is the W/x builds though}.

[iostream]

Is there currently a semi-solidified W/x build? I used to play UW in modern so I was hoping to play something similar, but I haven't followed legacy closely in 2 years.

I did glance through the thread, but I didn't see a set-ish list. I was curious about the GW lists that people kept refernencing {i presume that is the W/x builds though}.Barook's list is here: http://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/416667#paper

There have been many variations on that theme, but that is perhaps the most well-known Wx decklist.

[kentheide]

Who is coming to GP Prague?

I am. And I hope i'll be able to dodge you and all the other Eldrazi players :-)

[the_goat]

Another 4-0 tonight in our weekly gathering @Cerny Rytir in Prague…same list as noloam...

-1mishra +1tower magistrate
-2 spheres in side +2zuran orb


M1 - grixis delver - I arrive to the shop with my opponent and we were discussing the matchup so we well know what we play...I do not remember much of the two games but I think I won both thanks to chalice...g2 my opponent kept land shaman i played chalice via tomb and dismembered shaman he never drew a second land…2-0


M2- merfolks - he starts with catcher into lord into phantasmal image copying lord i drop a smasher and we are racing each other...luckily i drew my mono tower of the magistrate just before he drew second image copying my smasher...i am low in lives but a second smasher closed the game1. I lost g2 to a nemesis into nemesis while g3 i took 14 damages from my 2tombs allowing me to cast in order t1 mimic t2seer attack for 4 t3endless obe for 7 thanks to simian...he started slow with double via and i manage to lock his muta with pithing needle...with him at 1 lofe and e blockers i cast end of his turn warping wail for a token. 2-0


M3 - ur delver thing - i know what my opponent plays as he recently moved from burn into UR delver with thing in the ice...all i need is chalice t1 and to pay attention to Price of Progress...he wins die roll island delver i try tomb chalice and i got dazed...delver does not flip and i steal the game with smasher...he cast price for 6 damage but he needs another one to kill me with delver...luckily it does not happen...g2 i resolve chalice t1 and he loses to seer-smasher duo...he could have cast at sorcery speed a PoP for 6 but he opted to wait...i drew wasteland cast smasher and wasted one land in response to his PoP...I was helped by his choice but I think game was compromised for him anyway…3-0


M4 - nic fit - g1 I lose die roll and he starts forest explorer...i play eye and double mimic...followed by seer...i don’t attack as he this is giving him too much advantage..i draw warping wail remove his blocker and finiah him...g2 i side in leylines but i mulligan to 5 without luck...he has best start possible...explorer into phurexian tower into zenith for witness...recir shaman...i have 3 lands when he has 7!! Two zeniths after I scoop to a compromised board...g3 I say to myself...mulligan into leyline...but I keep 2 temples chalice seer mimic smasher wail...i start with mimic he plays shaman and i play chalice t2...he plays Liliana discard and i get rid of wail...smasher reset board and i finish him...seer reveals a land-heavy hand with no treaths...

He plays ooze and he manages to survive with few creatures removes from graveyard but smasher is 5/5 and ooze 4/4...empty hand i topdeck all is dust with exactly 7 mana and he scoops...to be fair there were no more creatures in graveyards to stop my smasher…


4-0 second time this week...I hope it’s a good trend that will continue till the end of GP next weekend...

Sent from my LG-H525n using Tapatalk

[the_goat]

Been touring around Europe with my wife so haven't had time to play too much but I have to admit played a lot in March and April so feel good about going to Prague in two weeks. During the past 5 days or so I have tested my old Wb version and Noloam's build (with minor tweak to sb (and lands after talking with Noloam himself)) and managed to 5-0 yesterday and same today with the colorless build. So I think that's the way to go for me as won't have too much time after today either, hopefully some.

Who is coming to GP Prague?
Me :) I live 4 metro stations far away from tournament

Sent from my LG-H525n using Tapatalk

[SecondSunrise]

Wow Goat, that's pretty convenient :-P I plan on giong, but have still to figure out transportation and lodging... I live in northern Italy right now and pretty much nobody from my local crowd is going. But first there is a pretty big tournament in Milan this saturday, we'll see how our tentacled overlords fare there!

[the_goat]

Wow Goat, that's pretty convenient :-P I plan on giong, but have still to figure out transportation and lodging... I live in northern Italy right now and pretty much nobody from my local crowd is going. But first there is a pretty big tournament in Milan this saturday, we'll see how our tentacled overlords fare there!

I am actually Italian...from Milan...but I relocated here 10 yrs ago...if you come to Prague let me know...

[Barook]

That was a pretty stacked league run, but still only went 4-1 because variance is a harsh mistress:

R1: Julian Knab on regular Elves 2-0
R2: Colorless Eldrazi 1-2 (G2 & G3 were some of the most unreal draws I've ever seen in my entire Magic career. You could free Demonic Tutor every turn and not draw any better than that guy. :rolleyes: )
R3: Junk Nic Fit 2-0
R4: Jeskai Stoneblade 2-1 (Ziggy Stardust from the Legacy Mediocre League)
R5: Joe Lossett Legendary Miracles 2-1 (G1 I was lucky he didn't set up Terminus as I had a T3 overkill (http://i.imgur.com/65LRRI0.jpg). G2 I had a slow hand after a mull, which didn't matter since he had T3 B2B anyway. G3 I had another ridiculous good start (http://i.imgur.com/E3jQGrJ.jpg) (his rest hand was SDT and 2x STP). Karma for what happened in R2.)

[ChrisDissent]

Hi everyone,

sorry for this budget considerations but i need some advices.
I'm trying to get the colorless build in paper (for budget and lack of experience/testing reasons), but so far, I can't afford the playset of Cavern of Soul and the last City of Traitors.

I'd really want to try the eldrazi deck at my LGS, but I was wondering what lands could I get in to fill the CoS/CoT slots ?

My manabase so far is :
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Eye of Ugin
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Mishra's Factory
1 City of Traitors
1 Crystal Vein
2 Wasteland
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth

Need 2/3 others lands to fill the gap. Been thinking about Tower of the Magistrate, a singelton of Scorched Ruins, Sea Gate Wreckage, or just Waste as it help against B2B and Blood Moon, but none of those really convice me.
I know these changes will make the build way less competitive, but that's just the problem when you try to put a foot into Legacy I guess :)

Have you any idea guys ? What would you do in this case ?

Thanks in advance for your help ! Have a nice day

[Noloam_]

Hi everyone,

sorry for this budget considerations but i need some advices.
I'm trying to get the colorless build in paper (for budget and lack of experience/testing reasons), but so far, I can't afford the playset of Cavern of Soul and the last City of Traitors.

I'd really want to try the eldrazi deck at my LGS, but I was wondering what lands could I get in to fill the CoS/CoT slots ?

My manabase so far is :
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Eye of Ugin
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Mishra's Factory
1 City of Traitors
1 Crystal Vein
2 Wasteland
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth

Need 2/3 others lands to fill the gap. Been thinking about Tower of the Magistrate, a singelton of Scorched Ruins, Sea Gate Wreckage, or just Waste as it help against B2B and Blood Moon, but none of those really convice me.
I know these changes will make the build way less competitive, but that's just the problem when you try to put a foot into Legacy I guess :)

Have you any idea guys ? What would you do in this case ?

Thanks in advance for your help ! Have a nice day

perhaps you shouldnt buy the 2th city. riehu and i agree that it is quite a crappy card. i whould play 2 wasteland extra + 1 tower (if you cant afford those: 2 tower of the magistrate and 1 waste to have a better match vs blade and shardless decks.)

[the_goat]

perhaps you shouldnt buy the 2th city. riehu and i agree that it is quite a crappy card.

taking in consideration your latest manabase (same as riehu)
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Cavern of Souls
2 City of Traitors
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Eye of Ugin
3 Mishra's Factory
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2 Wasteland

and removing one city...what would you add? tower? 4th mishra? 3rd wasteland? karakas? crystal vein?
i personally find the 2mishra/2wasteland/1tower ok...and i share my concerns about the 2nd city as well...I am undecided if it should be replaced by 3rd waste or 3rd mishra...

[Riehu]

taking in consideration your latest manabase (same as riehu)
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Cavern of Souls
2 City of Traitors
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Eye of Ugin
3 Mishra's Factory
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2 Wasteland

and removing one city...what would you add? tower? 4th mishra? 3rd wasteland? karakas? crystal vein?
i personally find the 2mishra/2wasteland/1tower ok...and i share my concerns about the 2nd city as well...I am undecided if it should be replaced by 3rd waste or 3rd mishra...

I think this could be perhaps flex land slot. I used 3rd Wasteland in my latest build yesterday. But if you are expecting a lot of decks Tower is good against then it should be Tower. Single Wastes in case of lots of hate etc. Karakas for S&T. I'm still not 100% sure what I will use in Prague. Perhaps single Karakas to have some additional outs vs S&T.

[Riehu]

I am. And I hope i'll be able to dodge you and all the other Eldrazi players :-)

Cool, let's hope so! :)

[Riehu]

Me :) I live 4 metro stations far away from tournament

Sent from my LG-H525n using Tapatalk

Good for you! I'm still hoping I can make it already on Friday at some point to play trials.

[toor]

Played noloam's build in a local tourney and reminded me a bunch why I feel like Leagues/Small events are such poor use of time if you are just working on optimizing a deck list.

W Pox
W Nic Fit
L Deathblade (g1, TNN + batterskull. G3 Manascrew)
W Miracles

So I didn't play any of the matchups which i think should determine a "correct" gp build.

I have narrowed down what I consider the relevant differences between colored builds (I have tried UR. WR, R, W) and colorless:

Show and Tell (5-9% of metagame) - Displacer makes a huge difference. Probably single biggest matchup that changes.
Shardless Bug & Jund (8%-10%) - Reshaper better than other 3 drops. But its actually close, since displacer gives you more jace answers. The big difference is that having lands which do something (factories/wastelands/Towers) is very valuable.
D&T (8%) - Displacer is just unreal in this matchup since its an actual answer to equipment. They can still kill your mana, but its net favorable.
Delver (10%) - I like being able to side up to 26 lands vs Delver. So colorless feels better since it has more ways to mitigate flood. The actual cards are basically same.
Mirror (8-10%) - This is a big one, because I expect the deck to be way more popular at this GP than it has been previously. And displacers are almost unbeatable in the mirror if they live.

Likely result is that I flip coin at the GP.

[the_goat]

Mirror (8-10%) - This is a big one, because I expect the deck to be way more popular at this GP than it has been previously. And displacers are almost unbeatable in the mirror if they live.


i am not sure about this statement...i suppose you remove chalices from maindeck in favour of better mirror oriented cards...if a pithing needle hits the field naming displacer how does WG remove it? 2 worldbreakers are the only card otherwise the raw power of displacer ability is reduced to a simple 3/3 for 3 mana

[toor]

i am not sure about this statement...i suppose you remove chalices from maindeck in favour of better mirror oriented cards...if a pithing needle hits the field naming displacer how does WG remove it? 2 worldbreakers are the only card otherwise the raw power of displacer ability is reduced to a simple 3/3 for 3 mana

Well I would bring ratchet bomb (you are likely to have enough dead cards that trading 1 for 1 with endless one is fine). So I would expect at least a couple of answers.

And if they needle your displacer you are still up a 3/3 (not worth much but worth something).

But the simple fact is 60% of games they wont have needle, and thats a large percent to have an edge in.

[Cire]

i am not sure about this statement...i suppose you remove chalices from maindeck in favour of better mirror oriented cards...if a pithing needle hits the field naming displacer how does WG remove it? 2 worldbreakers are the only card otherwise the raw power of displacer ability is reduced to a simple 3/3 for 3 mana

But you still need to play needles or revokers naming displacer for that to work - and even then your Needle/Revoker + Matter Reshaper is still outclassed by a Displacer. The CA from Reshaper at that point is offset by you needing to invest another card (the Needle/Revoker). Then, they still have the possiblity of landing a WorldBreaker (or ratchet bomb). And that's just the WG version. Obligator makes the WR and WRG versions faster than Colorless and allows for huge kill swings by stealing random stuff.

I'm not saying that Colorless isn't a good build, but I think it does lose in the mirror against colored versions.

[iostream]

Shardless Bug & Jund (8%-10%) - Reshaper better than other 3 drops. But its actually close, since displacer gives you more jace answers. The big difference is that having lands which do something (factories/wastelands/Towers) is very valuable.
You can still have access to all those lands in the white version, I think, if you are OK with running Ratchet Bombs instead of World Breaker in the side. It's not too hard to cook up a mashup of Barook's manabase and noloam's manabase:

4 Ancient Tomb
1 Brushland
4 Cavern of Souls
2 City of Traitors
4 Eldrazi Temple
3 Eye of Ugin
2 Karakas
3 Mishra's Factory
2 Wasteland
3 Lotus Petal

This is 28 sources, so you'd have to shave one nonland card off of Barook's list, which I've been doing anyway because I am risk averse and think 24 land is probably too few. You have one fewer W/G source than Barook here, which is why I said you probably can't run World Breaker. But with 10 sources of white, 3 Displacer is probably fine, especially since it's typically the last creature you want to cast out of your hand (i.e. you usually aren't trying to slam a turn 1 or turn 2 Displacer since it just eats removal without getting any value). You can squeeze a Tower in the sideboard, which is where I think it belongs anyway.

[Barook]

You can still have access to all those lands in the white version, I think, if you are OK with running Ratchet Bombs instead of World Breaker in the side. It's not too hard to cook up a mashup of Barook's manabase and noloam's manabase:

4 Ancient Tomb
1 Brushland
4 Cavern of Souls
2 City of Traitors
4 Eldrazi Temple
3 Eye of Ugin
2 Karakas
3 Mishra's Factory
2 Wasteland
3 Lotus Petal

This is 28 sources, so you'd have to shave one nonland card off of Barook's list, which I've been doing anyway because I am risk averse and think 24 land is probably too few. You have one fewer G source, which is why I said you probably can't run World Breaker. But with 10 sources of white, 3 Displacer is probably fine, especially since it's typically the last creature you want to cast out of your hand (i.e. you usually aren't trying to slam a turn 1 or turn 2 Displacer since it just eats removal without getting any value). You can squeeze a Tower in the sideboard, which is where I think it belongs anyway.
World Breaker isn't the problem when you cut Brushland as there are still plenty of green sources for World Breaker. Displacer suffers from less white sources. If you wanted to, you could probably cut a City instead. I see it more as an unbeloved, necessary evil than a sacred cow that can never be cut.

[iostream]

World Breaker isn't the problem when you cut Brushland as there are still plenty of green sources for World Breaker. Displacer suffers from less white sources. If you wanted to, you could probably cut a City instead. I see it more as an unbeloved, necessary evil than a sacred cow that can never be cut.For sure you could do that, although lowering our Sol land count to just 12 makes me worry. You really don't want to keep hands that don't have some kind of fast mana in them, so every time you cut some of the fast mana, you are increasing the mulligan rate of the deck.

[Cire]

For reference my mana base for the WR(+g for world breaker in the side) is:

-29 mana sources.
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Corrupted Crossroads
4 Cavern of Souls
3 Eye of Ugin
2 Mishra's Factory
2 City of Traitors
1 Karakas
1 Tower of the magistrate
4 Lotus Petal

And it's been working pretty well - even with the tech of Tower and Karakas MD.

[Noloam_]

taking in consideration your latest manabase (same as riehu)
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Cavern of Souls
2 City of Traitors
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Eye of Ugin
3 Mishra's Factory
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2 Wasteland

and removing one city...what would you add? tower? 4th mishra? 3rd wasteland? karakas? crystal vein?
i personally find the 2mishra/2wasteland/1tower ok...and i share my concerns about the 2nd city as well...I am undecided if it should be replaced by 3rd waste or 3rd mishra...

I whould add another wasteland. The tower plan is not perfect with wasteland in my opinion. If you use wasteland, you have to choose between activating tower and playing a treat. I think i only like the tower in my no wasteland build. I have had good results with both



For the people saying that colorless is bad in the mirror: if your only solland gets wastelanded, you are far from home and displacer is not going to fix it for you then

[Noloam_]

I think this could be perhaps flex land slot. I used 3rd Wasteland in my latest build yesterday. But if you are expecting a lot of decks Tower is good against then it should be Tower. Single Wastes in case of lots of hate etc. Karakas for S&T. I'm still not 100% sure what I will use in Prague. Perhaps single Karakas to have some additional outs vs S&T..


Karakas? I really thought that that hype was over. Ive had situations in which i had eye/urborg/karakas and i was casting no eldrazi's, because of the lack of colorless mana :(

I now ended 4-1 a league :(. I had the one off faerie in my opener vs br reanimate. He opened with thoughtseize into unfair stuff. The faerie had let me down man :(

[Riehu]

.


Karakas? I really thought that that hype was over. Ive had situations in which i had eye/urborg/karakas and i was casting no eldrazi's, because of the lack of colorless mana :(

I am now 3-1 in a league. I had the one off faerie in my opener vs br reanimate. He opened with thoughtseize into unfair stuff. The faerie had let me down man :(

Yeah haven't tried that in a long time. Perhaps a no go then. Unmask or Thoughtseize are the reasons I don't like faerie anymore as discussed.

[Riehu]

Had another league. 3-2 this time.

RUG Delver 1-2 (he went first g1 I played g2 and he won g3) it really depends on who goes first many times
Belcher 0-2 T1 14 goblins and 2nd game T1 Tendrils kill gg
Infect 2-0
UW Eldrazi 2-0 Wasteland MVP (funny that noloam just brought this up)
Jund 2-0

I'm still happy with the build which is this http://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/426187#online though I'd like to find room for 1-2 spatials for SB but don't know how. Maybe by removing 1 all is dust and 1 endbringer but not so sure yet.

[Noloam_]

Yeah haven't tried that in a long time. Perhaps a no go then. Unmask or Thoughtseize are the reasons I don't like faerie anymore as discussed.

yes you might be right :(. perhaps the 1 city is also the perfect build as i stated earlier. i love to hear the long run experiences. but i think my discoball package needs them in the combo matches :(

[Barook]

Another league run, another 4-1:

R1: Miracles 1-2 (made a few mistakes G2 and G3, so losing was well-deserved. Didn't help that I had to mull to 4 in G3.)
R2: BR Reanimator 2-0
R3: Infect 2-0
R4: Food Chain 2-0 (was lucky he didn't have it)
R5: Grixis Delver 2-1

But more importanly, new achievement unlocked! :cool:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CkGfsvYWsAARRH3.jpg

[RhoxWarMonk]

Congrats Barook!! Well earned achievement.

General question, I see a lot of people dropping the City of Traitors count. Is it due to the instant mull hand of 2x CoT you guys are going down to so little? How are you finding only running 13 sol lands?

[Barook]

Congrats Barook!! Well earned achievement.

General question, I see a lot of people dropping the City of Traitors count. Is it due to the instant mull hand of 2x CoT you guys are going down to so little? How are you finding only running 13 sol lands?
Thanks!

Double city rarely comes up. At least for me, I want a stable mana development, and early City jeopardizes that if you don't have enough other lands.

[metronome2charisma]

Congrats Barook! i know you've been working on that and been super close for a while. awesome !

So i tried 3 obligator main last night. It was ok... this is how i feel about the non-colorless versions . when i started playing the white splash it was the crappy white splash with 4 displacer,2 revoker, 2 containment priest main. it was slow.I went down to 2 displacer in an essentially colorless version. it was awesome! i loved it and went up to 3 displacer and it was really good . The problem was that when i tried 4 i didn't like it a ton. because there are less times when you can get multiple mana from eye of ugin like playing a mimic and a 2/2 endless one on turn 1 and playing a sol land and a matter reshaper and a 3/3 endless one which really help push damage through in early turns and that early pressure is what makes the colorless version the most consistently powerful option.
So where i'm at now is thinking i go down to 2 displacer (which i love) and 2 obligator main just to try those numbers. I play in the philly/nj area mostly and the meta has shifted A ton . mud and twelve post are everywhere,lots of lands ,lots of blood moon decks,lots of bug(in all variants ) and actually a few painter/stone .just lots of hate and trying to go over the top of eldrazi seems to be a popular route rite now ...Thats what makes obligator such a powerful option, even just a goyf is cool..i'm just not sure its worth it ..

[Nocley]

Been jamming a couple leagues with the RWg version, 3-2 in both of them. First pair of losses were to 4c Loam and Tezzerator, the second league's losses to Miracles and UR Delver where I just had no action because every hand even when mulling to 6 or 5 was non-sol land 3+ tks or smasher.

Some notes:
Obligator was activated 0 times. Even with the 4 petal 4 Crossroads 4 Cavern I wasn't getting enough red sources to cast it when I needed to steal something from the opponent. The best uses were as a hasty creature, but I think factory would be just as good, without dying to sweepers as much.
Displacer was okay, but I wasn't 100% impressed with it due to the mana involved (I was never getting to 6+ mana to either play a threat and activate displacer, or do two activations at once, without hurting myself so much due to the tombs. Did get to live the dream though of displacing a TKS to take a terminus in response to the trigger, which is always great when it works out.

Going to do a league or two with Wg today, and then finally try the colorless version because noloam's 75 (with a few changes from others) sure is putting up good MTGO results. I'm still so afraid to go away from displacer, even though it's done very little for me. Did anyone ever get an idea of how the colorless version felt against DnT and Lands, given that they're barely represented online? Especially without the Towers as noloam is suggesting?

[Barook]

Updated my SB guide (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?30500-DTB-Eldrazi-Stompy&p=944846&viewfull=1#post944846) - remember that it's just a guideline.

[ParkerLewis]

Getting a little back to MtG after a several year break. I would very much like to try this deck. Is there some kind of composite / reference decklist I could start with ? Thanks for the help.

[Eldariel]

Getting a little back to MtG after a several year break. I would very much like to try this deck. Is there some kind of composite / reference decklist I could start with ? Thanks for the help.

You should probably treat this as a macroarchetype spanning multiple different decks mostly defined by their splashes. Generally you can splash some colors for some of the powerful colored Eldrazi, or stay colorless for maximum consistency. Few different lists with some performance behind them:
Colorless Eldrazi (http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=12586&d=272712&f=LE) - Noloam's list
White/Green Eldrazi (http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=12473&d=271787&f=LE) - Barook's list
White/Red Eldrazi (http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=12465&d=271731&f=LE) - DrGenial's list
White/Blue Eldrazi (http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=12465&d=271727&f=LE) - wooop_orc's list
Serum Powder Eldrazi (http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=12443&d=271585&f=LE) - Jeff Blyden (dunno if he has a handle here)

[iostream]

You should probably treat this as a macroarchetype spanning multiple different decks mostly defined by their splashes. Generally you can splash some colors for some of the powerful colored Eldrazi, or stay colorless for maximum consistency. Few different lists with some performance behind them:
Colorless Eldrazi (http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=12586&d=272712&f=LE) - Noloam's list
White/Green Eldrazi (http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=12473&d=271787&f=LE) - Barook's list
White/Red Eldrazi (http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=12465&d=271731&f=LE) - DrGenial's list
White/Blue Eldrazi (http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=12465&d=271727&f=LE) - wooop_orc's list
Serum Powder Eldrazi (http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=12443&d=271585&f=LE) - Jeff Blyden (dunno if he has a handle here)As much as I like Eldrazi Displacer, it probably should be said that the Colorless version is enjoying by far the most success on Magic Online, and although I personally believe that Displacer is worth it, the data contradicts me. If you're just getting started, you really should just build the colorless version.

Is there something about the MTGO metagame that makes Displacer worse than it otherwise would be, or am I deluding myself?

On an unrelated note, another issue that seems to pit my testing experiences versus the data is Trinisphere versus Thorn of Amethyst in the sideboard. In my testing, I've never really found Thorn to be all that impactful against anything except Storm and Reanimator to a lesser extent. Sneak/Show doesn't really care about Thorn since they have a lot of fast mana themselves and are only trying to resolve one spell; I guess Trinisphere is also useless here. Elves doesn't care about Thorn since all their combo pieces are creatures; here, Trinisphere seems amazing. Miracles cares about Thorn a little, but they run a ton of land and can eventually play through it, whereas Trinisphere basically makes it so that they can't do 2 things in a turn.

[maraxusofkelds]

As much as I like Eldrazi Displacer, it probably should be said that the Colorless version is enjoying by far the most success on Magic Online, and although I personally believe that Displacer is worth it, the data contradicts me. If you're just getting started, you really should just build the colorless version.

Is there something about the MTGO metagame that makes Displacer worse than it otherwise would be, or am I deluding myself?

On an unrelated note, another issue that seems to pit my testing experiences versus the data is Trinisphere versus Thorn of Amethyst in the sideboard. In my testing, I've never really found Thorn to be all that impactful against anything except Storm and Reanimator to a lesser extent. Sneak/Show doesn't really care about Thorn since they have a lot of fast mana themselves and are only trying to resolve one spell; I guess Trinisphere is also useless here. Elves doesn't care about Thorn since all their combo pieces are creatures; here, Trinisphere seems amazing. Miracles cares about Thorn a little, but they run a ton of land and can eventually play through it, whereas Trinisphere basically makes it so that they can't do 2 things in a turn.

Big thing is that the colorless version does alot worse than the w/g one against death n taxes, which is much less prevalent online on MTGO and is free to put up more consistent results. Tower of magistrate main deck helps vs it, but it doesn't solve the entire problem Both on xmage and in paper, I run into far more D+T, where displacer is far better.

Thorn hurts miracles alot. They do get alot of land but losing the ability to free cast force and havin gall their cantrips and swords cost double suddenly means they cannot sensei top nearly as frequently. Miracles is about options, and thorns restricts their options.

[darkgh0st]

Big news was an unpowered eldrazi vintage deck made it to top 16 in NYSE Open Series. His record was 6-1-1.
Link (https://mobile.twitter.com/JMJACO/status/739256500061868032)

I'm surprised that there were no City of Traitors in the list

[ParkerLewis]

You should probably treat this as a macroarchetype spanning multiple different decks mostly defined by their splashes. Generally you can splash some colors for some of the powerful colored Eldrazi, or stay colorless for maximum consistency. Few different lists with some performance behind them:
Colorless Eldrazi (http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=12586&d=272712&f=LE) - Noloam's list
White/Green Eldrazi (http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=12473&d=271787&f=LE) - Barook's list
White/Red Eldrazi (http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=12465&d=271731&f=LE) - DrGenial's list
White/Blue Eldrazi (http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=12465&d=271727&f=LE) - wooop_orc's list
Serum Powder Eldrazi (http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=12443&d=271585&f=LE) - Jeff Blyden (dunno if he has a handle here)

Thanks for the answer. I'll give them a look :)

[Barook]

As much as I like Eldrazi Displacer, it probably should be said that the Colorless version is enjoying by far the most success on Magic Online, and although I personally believe that Displacer is worth it, the data contradicts me. If you're just getting started, you really should just build the colorless version.

Is there something about the MTGO metagame that makes Displacer worse than it otherwise would be, or am I deluding myself?
Imho, the white version is harder to play since you have to pay more attention how you sequence your mana. There are also alot more people playing the colorless version than the Displacer versions.

[Eldariel]

Imho, the white version is harder to play since you have to pay more attention how you sequence your mana. There are also alot more people playing the colorless version than the Displacer versions.

One big thing of note is that the SCG had colorless lists in the Top 8, and it's not that rare for people to just look at latest lists from a major tournament and ape them. It's a common and fairly solid heuristic: tournament Top 8 lists are proven and tested - if you're going to invest only little time into deck selection (little time, secondary format, or for whatever reason), it's the easiest path to getting to play with something workable without having to scour through the internet and playing days of test games.

[Barook]

One big thing of note is that the SCG had colorless lists in the Top 8, and it's not that rare for people to just look at latest lists from a major tournament and ape them. It's a common and fairly solid heuristic: tournament Top 8 lists are proven and tested - if you're going to invest only little time into deck selection (little time, secondary format, or for whatever reason), it's the easiest path to getting to play with something workable without having to scour through the internet and playing days of test games.
I think when you play also has a big role. I found times where you play more Americans easier than European prime time, partly due to average play skill, partly due to deck choices. E.g. I faced 3x Aggro Loam in my league run this morning and lost 3x. That would never happen during US prime time where everybody is too busy rubbing their dick to Miracles.

[iostream]

Big thing is that the colorless version does alot worse than the w/g one against death n taxes, which is much less prevalent online on MTGO and is free to put up more consistent results. Tower of magistrate main deck helps vs it, but it doesn't solve the entire problem Both on xmage and in paper, I run into far more D+T, where displacer is far better. I've heard this reason before, and it is probably the most persuasive argument, but we're talking about maybe 5% of the online metagame that's different due to D+T being so expensive to build on MTGO. I'm not sure it can account for the entire discrepancy.

One big thing of note is that the SCG had colorless lists in the Top 8, and it's not that rare for people to just look at latest lists from a major tournament and ape them. It's a common and fairly solid heuristic: tournament Top 8 lists are proven and tested - if you're going to invest only little time into deck selection (little time, secondary format, or for whatever reason), it's the easiest path to getting to play with something workable without having to scour through the internet and playing days of test games.I've heard this reason before as well, but it seems like there is every incentive for people on MTGO to play the "better deck" if it's actually better, especially since the price difference between Colorless and White Eldrazi is so small. It seems hard to imagine that so many people would leave actual money on the table for no reason other than groupthink.

I think when you play also has a big role. I found times where you play more Americans easier than European prime time, partly due to average play skill, partly due to deck choices. E.g. I faced 3x Aggro Loam in my league run this morning and lost 3x. That would never happen during US prime time where everybody is too busy rubbing their dick to Miracles.But we see very few pilots - European or American or anyone else - piloting the white Eldrazi deck into 5-0?

Just to be clear, I'm not trolling. I'm just wondering if my judgment about the white deck is just wrong. We're talking about it as though it's a metagame consideration, but really we are not exploring the possibility that Displacer is just worse and that we are all biased. For instance, one possibility is that the colorless deck has evolved since April, which is when we really started to figure out how the white version of the deck should be built. So it could be the case that the April version of colorless Eldrazi is worse than white Eldrazi, but white Eldrazi is worse than today's version of Eldrazi (i.e. noloam's build). I think it would be good to scrutinize our opinions a little more just in case something like this is true, especially because Columbus and Prague are coming up in less than a week!

[Barook]

I've heard this reason before as well, but it seems like there is every incentive for people on MTGO to play the "better deck" if it's actually better, especially since the price difference between Colorless and White Eldrazi is so small. It seems hard to imagine that so many people would leave actual money on the table for no reason other than groupthink.
But we see very few pilots - European or American or anyone else - piloting the white Eldrazi deck into 5-0?

Just to be clear, I'm not trolling. I'm just wondering if my judgment about the white deck is just wrong. We're talking about it as though it's a metagame consideration, but really we are not exploring the possibility that Displacer is just worse and that we are all biased. For instance, one possibility is that the colorless deck has evolved since April, which is when we really started to figure out how the white version of the deck should be built. So it could be the case that the April version of colorless Eldrazi is worse than white Eldrazi, but white Eldrazi is worse than today's version of Eldrazi (i.e. noloam's build). I think it would be good to scrutinize our opinions a little more just in case something like this is true, especially because Columbus and Prague are coming up in less than a week!
I'll play a slighty different version of Riehu/NoLoam's build next (with 4x Factory and 2x Karakas because I can't be assed to buy Wastelands or Towers) just to get a feel for it. I tanked my total win percentage by almost 4% today (from 73%+ to 69+%) with unfavorable match-ups and sheer amount of stupid bad luck, like 4+ matches being decided G3 by one single topdeck that could have won them the game - and of course they got it. I'm somewhat frustrated because of that, but I wonder if the Colorless version would have been that much better in those situations. E.g. I just can't see what a Colorless version would have done against tripple Therapy (snatching 2x TKS & 2x Smasher) into 4x Baleful Strix on the draw. :rolleyes:

[Riehu]

I'll play a slighty different version of Riehu/NoLoam's build next (with 4x Factory and 2x Karakas because I can't be assed to buy Wastelands or Towers) just to get a feel for it. I tanked my total win percentage by almost 4% today (from 73%+ to 69+%) with unfavorable match-ups and sheer amount of stupid bad luck, like 4+ matches being decided G3 by one single topdeck that could have won them the game - and of course they got it. I'm somewhat frustrated because of that, but I wonder if the Colorless version would have been that much better in those situations. E.g. I just can't see what a Colorless version would have done against tripple Therapy (snatching 2x TKS & 2x Smasher) into 4x Baleful Strix on the draw. :rolleyes:

I can loan those for a week or two if you want.

[Eldariel]

I've heard this reason before as well, but it seems like there is every incentive for people on MTGO to play the "better deck" if it's actually better, especially since the price difference between Colorless and White Eldrazi is so small. It seems hard to imagine that so many people would leave actual money on the table for no reason other than groupthink.

Well, if you don't know which deck is actually better, chances are most of the players don't either. Yeah, MTGO players optimally want to play the better deck but I doubt anybody has the information to pick based on that. In a case where one variant has more results than another, the usurper has to be significantly better to begin replacing it. The other version will continue to put up solid results because it's also a strong deck and the differences aren't significant enough to push the other variants out of the metagame so the results will keep players playing said deck - indeed, people succeeding with one variant will keep playing that variant unless something that's clearly better shows up, and people picking based on results will pick the one they see winning the most; which in turn will repeat the cycle. Peoples' choices are inevitably based on incomplete information - thus, using only results as an indicator on which build is better is unreliable without data on the builds being entered and the players playing the decks. A deck's performance should be measured by its average match win controlled for mirrors, not by its Top 8 penetration as that's much more a function of its frequency on the field than its performance in individual match-ups. With the current reporting system on MTGO we lack the data to properly make quantitative analysis on which performs better, and such data inevitably has pollution from list variants, player skill, etc. too.

Thus I recommend relying on qualitative analysis instead: which match-ups favor which build? How high frequency are those match-ups? Could the builds be altered to achieve a better match-up matrix? Group testing and aggregated results complete with in-game information on how the MU feels. Pick the build based on what you think would perform better in your expected metagame. Though one of the probable reasons you will do fine either way is that the differences aren't frankly that big. The different builds are about ~10 cards off, half of which are mana sources. The remaining 50 are going to win or lose most of your games for you. Chances are colorless Eldrazi and White/X Eldrazi are both fine and viable and their overall chances against the field are probably fairly similar. I lack the individual match-up data from both sides to say this confidently but the various results posted in this thread seem to point in that direction.

[Barook]

0-2 in matches so far with the colorless build, lost R1 to an untimely DD from 12-Post and R2 to a Belcher who topdecked Belcher right after my TKS G1 and topdecked the right mana again G2.

Maybe today isn't just my lucky today, considering destiny has decided to fuck me over at every chance it gets.

Edit: 0-3, third Belcher game within 4 matches. :rolleyes:

Edit #2: Went 2-3 overall, beating D&T (budget?) and TES in the last two rounds. I'll stick to my GW build again as it fits my playstyle better and the difference between the builds is miniscule at best. E.g. I really disliked running 4 Eyes in the Colorless build. Playing with the Colorless build again just confirmed my long-standing suspicion that in certain situations, you're just boned no matter what when they have it, Displacer or Colorless build. And today was just unreal in terms of bad luck.

I might rework some slots of the deck, though. E.g. the white count for Displacer is something I'll keep my eyes on. I'm going to cut 1 City and run a Crossroads in its place as a "marked" GW source and see if it's better or worse than the second City. SB is always a meta choice. Also, how have the Endbringers been lately?

[RhoxWarMonk]

Just a random thought and I haven't tested it but couldn't we just play Displacer in the main shell and alter the land base slightly to accommodate? So basically, dropping the Lotus Petals but playing 4x Crossroads, 4x Cavern, 2x Karakas? This would allow you to keep in the spirit guides and could even play thorns main (or not) which would end up being a personal choice/meta call, depending on what you wanted to sub the Displacers in for. According to the CF guide, 10 sources should still allow us to cast Displacer by turn 5 consistently and I rarely want to cast him early on to begin with. Is it too greedy with that kind of mana base?

I may sleeve something like that up and give it a try. I think it's possible if you go down to 1 CoT, which a lot of people seem to be leaning towards anyways.

[ironclad8690]

Hey guys, I jumped on board today after deciding to quit Sneak and Show online. I started off with noloam's list to begin with (seemed like a decent enough starting point), but I had some tough matchups in my first league:

Mirror/w: 0-2 (my draws were just crap and I mulled g2 whereas he didn't)
Bant: 1-2
Deathblade: 0-2
Storm: 2-1
Reanimator: 2-0

I do like this list as a starting point, but I had some confusion as to what to cut vs the blade decks. What do you guys cut for this matchup? I added an All is Dust in place of the Faerie Macabre, so maybe:

+3 All is Dust
+2 Pithing Needle (SFM, Equips, Jace, heck even DRS)
+2 Ratchet Bomb

For 7 cards, but I don't know which ones to take out. Thanks!

[metronome2charisma]

Played the tales 1k today. Went 3-2 . Payed a white version with 2 displacer main 1 in the board. got 10th place .

rd1 burn 2-1
rd2 grixis delver 0-2
rd3 tes 2-1
rd 4 12post 2-0
rd5 merfolk 1-2 with him at 1 game three.

bringing my overall record with the deck to 62-31-3
thinking of going beck to the colorless version for a minute just to try it out again.

[RhoxWarMonk]

How many wastelands are people playing these days? I end up changing it and going anywhere from 0-3 :eyebrow:

congrats on your 10th place finish metronome, anything you would change? How was Displacer for you today?

[metronome2charisma]

Didn't activate displacer once in 5 rounds boarded it in versus merfolk , he forced it.. all in all displacer s great if you play against a bunch of lands,bug, eldrazi and anything creature heavy . most of the time i would just rather be playing the colorless version but displacer opens up so much more you can deal with, unfortunately it makes the deck much more mana hungry ,inconsistent and slow ( compared to colorless.)

I almost feel like the different versions should almost focus on playing different style games .like the white version should be focused a little more on inevitability and midrange ( as mid range as eldrazi goes) and the colorless version being the " aggro version". i know this is not a new revelation but for me personally i'm just starting to pinpoint the REAL in-game differences between the decks ..i think i might try 2 displacer 2 revoker 1 all is dust main with 2 urborg. I really like the white version and have been playing it for 2 months 2-3 times a week but against an open field i feel like colorless is some minuscule percentage better than the colored versions.

[metronome2charisma]

I am running ZERO wasteland . i have never ran it . After watching the deck played a few times i realized the deck just didn't want them . especially in numbers greater than 2 . the white version can only afford to play 2 MAX anyway ,which is a good thing .

[Noloam_]

I'll play a slighty different version of Riehu/NoLoam's build next (with 4x Factory and 2x Karakas because I can't be assed to buy Wastelands or Towers) just to get a feel for it. I tanked my total win percentage by almost 4% today (from 73%+ to 69+%) with unfavorable match-ups and sheer amount of stupid bad luck, like 4+ matches being decided G3 by one single topdeck that could have won them the game - and of course they got it. I'm somewhat frustrated because of that, but I wonder if the Colorless version would have been that much better in those situations. E.g. I just can't see what a Colorless version would have done against tripple Therapy (snatching 2x TKS & 2x Smasher) into 4x Baleful Strix on the draw. :rolleyes:

the colorless version will also get crushed in that situation :). MODO also gives you hidious hands sometimes. no lands, into all lands etc.

i was wondering if you have ever tested containment priest main? i am playing the card in vintage. it is a sweet combo with displacer

[Riehu]

the colorless version will also get crushed in that situation :). MODO also gives you hidious hands sometimes. no lands, into all lands etc.

i was wondering if you have ever tested containment priest main? i am playing the card in vintage. it is a sweet combo with displacer

I played it for some time, even 5-0 league once. Eventually it felt too slow but perhaps I could have gone all midrange then.

[SecondSunrise]

Finally got to try Barook's list in a paper event last saturday. Had about 35 people there, which meant 5 rounds. Went 2-3 overall, winning against Grixis Delver + Jund and losing to Grixis Delver and 2 Death and Taxes.

D+T especially seems like a quite tricky matchup. While we are faroured in theory because of our better creatures and faster mana, as well as the having blanks like Mom in Game 1, my opponents consistently were able to keep me 1 mana short of doing anything awesome (like casting a 4-drop :tongue: ). Often them having 1 Waste and 1 Port was enough, which seems like something that would happen regularly.

I liked having access to Eldrazi Displacer, since the ability is quite strong, but I am not sure whether it is worth the color-intensive manabase. Also, I was very underwhelmed by Lotus Petal. I understand that it is necessary in this version in order to have both G and W, but it being an artefact felt horrible against Tarmogoyf. Delver can usually only get their Tarmo to 4/5 (Creature Instant Sorcery Land) and making it a 5/6 that can block Smasher and does not not die do Dismember felt like a huge blowout.

The best part about the deck for me was the SB - I really like the way it is put together and I felt like I had a coherent plan against everyone, including the mirror, which the colorless version can struggle with. World Breaker especially seems awesome. Do you think 6 sources of colored mana (4 Caverns and 2 Elvish Spirit Guides, for example) would be sufficient to still run him in the SB? I would like to try out Noloams manabase, but would appreciate it if I could still run the Green Giant.

[Barook]

The best part about the deck for me was the SB - I really like the way it is put together and I felt like I had a coherent plan against everyone, including the mirror, which the colorless version can struggle with. World Breaker especially seems awesome. Do you think 6 sources of colored mana (4 Caverns and 2 Elvish Spirit Guides, for example) would be sufficient to still run him in the SB? I would like to try out Noloams manabase, but would appreciate it if I could still run the Green Giant.
I don't think 6 sources are enough, even for just 2 copies of World Breaker. I would start at 7+ green sources - maybe you can squeeze in another ESG? But why not test it first?

[bonkotsu]

Went 3-2 at a local IQ, played a list very close to what Barook uses.

Round 1: 2-0 vs Dredge
Game 1- Early trinisphere and jitte kept him from doing much
Game 2- Trinisphere with 2x faerie macabre hand. Pretty easy game

Round 2: 2-0 Mizzix Mastery
This deck was featured in a SCG article not to long ago. Basically use mizzix or dream halls to cast enter the infinite, lightning storm somebody to death.
Game 1: Thought knot rips apart his hand, he is too slow to keep up
Game 2: Same as before with faerie macabre backup

Round 3: 1-2 Elves
Game 1: Turn 1 Chalice on 1, out pace him pretty well
Game 2: Same as before, he keeps a decent tempo with visionary, zenith to get symbiote and deathrite. I punted by not tutoring a smasher with my eye a turn earlier. No reason why I didn't do it.
Game 3: He just completely out races me

Round 4: 0-2 Death and Taxes
Game 1: I turn 1 chalice, draw a bunch of lands with no eye to tutor
Game 2: Kept a loose hand, he kept a bunch of wastelands and a vial. GG

Round 5: 2-0 vs Merfolk
Game 1: Turn 1 trinisphere, out value him easily after that
Game 2: I get an early displacer, mimic, and some smashers to keep his dudes from doing anything.

Will post a list when SCG updates.

Barook, Could you post a current version of your 75?

[Cire]

Went 4-1 with WRg version recently. . . . lost, ironically due to these conversations, to D&T - just. . . . well nothing you can do against terrible draws on your end and fantastic draws on the other.

My main observation is that Obligator stealing something is a rare occurence. It happens, and it usually wins the game when it happens, but in the end Obligator is a 3/1 Haste. Think of it as only that. So in my version that runs 2 Factories, the question is do you want to play 4 factories or 2 factories and a 3/1 Haste? So far, I'm enjoying the speed and explosiveness, but there is something to be said about consistency. My version plays 4 "removal" spells, while most colorless run 5-6. I used to say that 3 obligators compensate for that discrepency somewhat, buy I admit I was wrong. Don't count any amount of obligators as one removal spell.

[Noloam_]

modo is giving me lemons a lot of times recently. a lot of 3-2's :(

altough im not as active as last month anymore

[Barook]

modo is giving me lemons a lot of times recently. a lot of 3-2's :(

altough im not as active as last month anymore
I don't think I'll join another league before the introduction of competitive leagues, either.

@bonkotsu: Still the same list as always. I'll make adaptions when I see them fit.

On a slight sidenote: Appearently, Moat is the latest trend on MTGO for Miracle players. One of the things World Breaker shines against as an additional outlet outside of All is Dust.

[RhoxWarMonk]

I don't think I'll join another league before the introduction of competitive leagues, either.

@bonkotsu: Still the same list as always. I'll make adaptions when I see them fit.

On a slight sidenote: Appearently, Moat is the latest trend on MTGO for Miracle players. One of the things World Breaker shines against as an additional outlet outside of All is Dust.

I'm seeing it in paperback too (they're starting to realize that Blood Moon simply doesn't do enough to outright win you the game), where as Moat is a complete block to our ground attack without removing it.

I agree that World Breaker really shines here, the colorless version only has AiD and Ratchet Bomb to deal with Moat, both of which are incredibly slow and underwhelming.

[Barook]

I'm seeing it in paperback too (they're starting to realize that Blood Moon simply doesn't do enough to outright win you the game), where as Moat is a complete block to our ground attack without removing it.

I agree that World Breaker really shines here, the colorless version only has AiD and Ratchet Bomb to deal with Moat, both of which are incredibly slow and underwhelming.
Except Paper is limited due to the price tag and availability issues.

World Breaker and AiD both cost 7, so they're equally "slow". Ratchet Bomb is even slower, though.

Interesting side note:
D&T took down the SCG Legacy Classic event this weekend - with 4 MD Displacers (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=103788) :eek:

[ironclad8690]

modo is giving me lemons a lot of times recently. a lot of 3-2's :(

altough im not as active as last month anymore

What do you attribute it to? Draws or matchups?

[Noloam_]

Except Paper is limited due to the price tag and availability issues.

World Breaker and AiD both cost 7, so they're equally "slow". Ratchet Bomb is even slower, though.

Interesting side note:
D&T took down the SCG Legacy Classic event this weekend - with 4 MD Displacers (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=103788) :eek:

how is a 2 mana spell slower than a 7 mana spell? if you drop it on turn 2 you are even faster

[RhoxWarMonk]

how is a 2 mana spell slower than a 7 mana spell? if you drop it on turn 2 you are even faster

I think he's referencing the amount of turns it takes to tick up Ratchet Bomb (4 additional turns to hit a moat).

As for Moat being less prevalent in paperback due to cost, I only half agree... in my experience, legacy pilots really don't care what the cost of a card is, if it helps them pilot their favorite deck more successfully.

[Eldariel]

Interesting side note:
D&T took down the SCG Legacy Classic event this weekend - with 4 MD Displacers (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=103788) :eek:

The card is amazing, certainly. Early on it's a 3/3 beater for 3, which is fine if nothing worth playing in Legacy, but then it proceeds to make your opponent's creatures irrelevant 3 mana at a time and makes their equipment useless while at it. And it acts as a big Mom vs. removal too, and then they have the obvious synergies with Mangara, Flickerwisp, Stoneforge and to lesser extent, Revoker (here, they certainly one-up us). Of course, D&T lives off making the games slower and longer than normal between Tax-effects and mana disruption so it's more likely to get to the place where Displacer really shines compared to us. Of course, while we don't want it, plenty of match-ups do tend to inevitably get grindy so Displacer has plenty of chance to earn its keep here too.

[Barook]

how is a 2 mana spell slower than a 7 mana spell? if you drop it on turn 2 you are even faster
All is Dust and World Breaker being castable on T4 isn't unheard off, even T3 with an accelerant.


The card is amazing, certainly. Early on it's a 3/3 beater for 3, which is fine if nothing worth playing in Legacy, but then it proceeds to make your opponent's creatures irrelevant 3 mana at a time and makes their equipment useless while at it. And it acts as a big Mom vs. removal too, and then they have the obvious synergies with Mangara, Flickerwisp, Stoneforge and to lesser extent, Revoker (here, they certainly one-up us). Of course, D&T lives off making the games slower and longer than normal between Tax-effects and mana disruption so it's more likely to get to the place where Displacer really shines compared to us. Of course, while we don't want it, plenty of match-ups do tend to inevitably get grindy so Displacer has plenty of chance to earn its keep here too.
It also has synergy with the SB Containment Priest. Activation mana still seems iffy between Wasteland and Port, though.

[Noloam_]

I think he's referencing the amount of turns it takes to tick up Ratchet Bomb (4 additional turns to hit a moat).

As for Moat being less prevalent in paperback due to cost, I only half agree... in my experience, legacy pilots really don't care what the cost of a card is, if it helps them pilot their favorite deck more successfully.

yes i considered that. if you play it turn 2, you sometimes even faster. you dont always make your landdrops. i even board out 1 city in the miracle match

[iostream]

how is a 2 mana spell slower than a 7 mana spell? if you drop it on turn 2 you are even fasterIMO, they both have pluses and minuses, and there are matchups where one or the other is better. It seems possible to me that the optimal solution may very well be to run a 1/1 split of World Breaker and Ratchet Bomb instead of just 2 of one or the other - but I have never tested such a split!

[ironclad8690]

I 4-1 a league today and started 1-0 in another

https://www.twitch.tv/adelorenzi/v/70899036

Streamed the last 2 of the 4-1 and the first of the next league.

Overall record:

Shardless: 2-0
Storm: 2-0
Grixis Delver: 2-0
Shardless: 1-2
Miracles: 2-1

Next league:

Storm: 2-1

[ironclad8690]

Realistically All is Dust is a 5 mana spell (I assume 4 Eye for this reason and Wasteland?).

Ratchet is a necessary evil but exposing to Abrupt Decay can feel bad sometimes. I am runnng 3/2 split All is Dust/Ratchet Bomb.

[RhoxWarMonk]

The hardest part of the colorless list is the land base IMO. I find it much less intuitive to play "what's correct", compared to the G/W build.

This is the obvious starting point:
3-4 Eye of Ugin
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Cavern of Souls
3-4 Mishra's Factory

Leaves about 4-6 slots depending on how many factories you run.

Then we have the following:
1-3 City of Traitors
1-2 Urborg
1-2 Karakas
0-4 Wasteland
0-2 Tower of the Magistrate

Going to playtest the following:
4 Eye of Ugin
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Mishra's Factory
3 City of Traitors
2 Urborg

And slowly work in the Wastelands to see if they're worth the slots. Tower is an interesting meta call as well, going to see if I can find a few towers to order online as I currently don't own any to playtest with.
Karakas seems much better in the colored version than here.

[Noloam_]

The hardest part of the colorless list is the land base IMO. I find it much less intuitive to play "what's correct", compared to the G/W build.

Going to playtest the following:
4 Eye of Ugin
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Mishra's Factory
3 City of Traitors
2 Urborg



this is one of two manabases that i prefer:

http://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/416028#online

i think it is the best way to ramp to creatures. but because i like the wasteland/thorn synergy, i am now no longer running it

[(nameless one)]

What's a good substitute for Jitte? I currently only have one. Would Sword of X/Y do any justice? Not sure if Fire and Ice or Light and Shadow could do the trick.

[Noloam_]

if you have money for SOFAI you have money for jitte. so just go for jitte



im wondering how long i will be playing eldrazi. im kinda bored by the deck. I playd UR delver last local tournament and top 8ed. perhaps that is the way to go for me in the future :'(.

[ironclad8690]

I just lost to grixis control after triple thorn of amethyst and resolving quad reality smasher.

He has 5 basics out, I TKS him with a mimic out and see cantrips and terminate. I take terminate.

His next draws are Murderous Cut, Snapcaster Mage, Murderous Cut, Young Pyromancer, Young Pyromancer, Bolt, Bolt, Bolt, Bolt.

I play and drew 4 Reality Smashers, got him to 1, but I just couldn't win. He had exactly enough cards to pay the thorn tax for every single murderous cut, was disgusting.

Game 2 I chalice 1 and he just naturally draws and plays 3 young pyromancers on turns 2-5. Needless to say, I just couldn't get there.

[RhoxWarMonk]

this is one of two manabases that i prefer:

http://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/416028#online

i think it is the best way to ramp to creatures. but because i like the wasteland/thorn synergy, i am now no longer running it

Thanks for the post, I can certainly see the appeal of the Thorns/Wasteland synergy but do you find you can't really afford to lose the land drop that wasteland provides? I find I need more resources, not less, so I've have only so-so experiences with Wasteland.

I also don't have the standard thorns hate package in the sideboard, so maybe that's why I don't see the same benefit.

[Noloam_]

Thanks for the post, I can certainly see the appeal of the Thorns/Wasteland synergy but do you find you can't really afford to lose the land drop that wasteland provides? I find I need more resources, not less, so I've have only so-so experiences with Wasteland.

I also don't have the standard thorns hate package in the sideboard, so maybe that's why I don't see the same benefit.

yes your argument is valid. that is why i play 2 endbringers in that list. Sometimes you indeed cant afford it. wasteland can win games sometimes and is a necessity vs lands

[bonkotsu]

I am going to the GP this weekend and 100 percent committed to Team Squid, first I have a couple of questions:

1) vs Taxes, do you guys leave in your chalices? In the past I have played tezz or affinity shells and have found chalice to be subpar. If it resolves it usually gets flickered to 0, the same goes for endless one. It only hits chalice and vial. I may be a bit warped in thinking that it isn't very good, maybe if they spend more time flickering endless one they wont be able to hit chalice?

2) Elvish Spirit Guide vs Lotus Petal. Again my mind set might be warped due to our local meta, we have a very skilled taxes player as well as a very skilled imperial painter player. Reason I ask about Petal: Doesnt feed goyf, unaffected by our own thorn or thalia effect, cant be countered for whatever reason. Lotus petal does feed Displacer though, is that the only reason?

3) Torpor Orb. Has anybody tinkered with this at all? It does hit our TKS, actually makes it terrible, but it does hit important when entering triggers. Thoughts?

I am pretty sure the rest of the flex slots are more preference vs priority, examples: Brushland vs Corrupted Crossroad , Faerie Macabre vs Leyline of the Void

Any input is greatly appreciated

[ESG]

1) Chalice is generally poor vs. Aether Vial decks, but Vial is the strongest tempo card in those decks, so I would keep Chalice in on the play and board it out on the draw. You want to be the aggressor in this matchup, and the best way to do that is to leverage your Sol lands while depriving them of Vial. The other key is to keep Batterskull off the board, either by killing Stoneforge Mystic (Warping Wail, Spatial Contortion, Dismember) or by dropping in Thought-Knot the turn after to exile Batterskull from hand, or by blinking out the germ via Eldrazi Displacer.

2) Spirits Guides vs. Lotus Petal: This mainly depends on what support colors, if any, you are playing in your list. Obviously there are considerations beyond color, as you have pointed out, but the primary reason is going to be on-color acceleration. I would always play Petal if I were running more than one support color and always play Spirit Guides if they were the same as my splash color.

3) I haven't seen any experimenting with Torpor Orb in this thread, but the card seems pretty bad. What exactly is giving you trouble that this card would solve? I would think Cursed Totem would be much better, but you would have collateral damage in turning off Eldrazi Displacer and Endbringer, if you run those. I would run Cursed Totem if I expected a lot of Elves decks, but Miracles has pretty much pushed Elves out.

[ironclad8690]

Torpor Orb is a huge nonbo with Eldrazi Mimic and Thought-Knot Seer, I would never run that.

[RhoxWarMonk]

I am going to the GP this weekend and 100 percent committed to Team Squid, first I have a couple of questions:

1) vs Taxes, do you guys leave in your chalices? In the past I have played tezz or affinity shells and have found chalice to be subpar. If it resolves it usually gets flickered to 0, the same goes for endless one. It only hits chalice and vial. I may be a bit warped in thinking that it isn't very good, maybe if they spend more time flickering endless one they wont be able to hit chalice?


This is a good question but generally I leave them in, at least on the play. I'd be more inclined to cut 1 or 2 if I was on the draw, since it wouldn't stop a T1 vial anyhow and StP would be the only real valid target early game. An argument can certainly be made for cutting more but remember if you keep them in and draw one late, you're better off setting the chalice to 2. Vial is usually ticked up to 3 by then and most of their deck are 2 drops.



2) Elvish Spirit Guide vs Lotus Petal. Again my mind set might be warped due to our local meta, we have a very skilled taxes player as well as a very skilled imperial painter player. Reason I ask about Petal: Doesnt feed goyf, unaffected by our own thorn or thalia effect, cant be countered for whatever reason. Lotus petal does feed Displacer though, is that the only reason?


I run neither (Simian Spirit guide) but it depends entirely on your build. If you're running Barook's G/W list, you want Lotus Petal, despite it's obvious drawbacks as you mentioned it gives you multiple mana sources for Displacer and World Breaker. Unfortunately, in that build you don't really have a choice (general consensus is that mox diamond is bad). If you're playing the noloam colorless version, you'll want one of the spirit guides. Simian wins out on the small edge case of being able to cast it through blood moon (with a Jitte, he's pretty good in that situation) but otherwise it's not a huge deal which one you choose.



3) Torpor Orb. Has anybody tinkered with this at all? It does hit our TKS, actually makes it terrible, but it does hit important when entering triggers. Thoughts?


Haven't tried Torpor Orb but what problem are you trying to solve with it? Elves is the only one I can think of and I'd rather just run Trinisphere.



I am pretty sure the rest of the flex slots are more preference vs priority, examples: Brushland vs Corrupted Crossroad , Faerie Macabre vs Leyline of the Void

Any input is greatly appreciated

Again, only run the pain lands if you're running the G/W version, else you'll want them to be Wastelands/Urborgs/Mishra's Factories, etc. I prefer Leyline of the Void over Macabre but it's absolutely personal preference on what you like.

Good luck at the GP this weekend!!

[RhoxWarMonk]

Torpor Orb is a huge nonbo with Eldrazi Mimic and Thought-Knot Seer, I would never run that.

Completely forgot about the Mimic, definitely makes it a non starter IMO.

[BlackYoshi]

Thanks for all the work - thinking of playing this or 4C Loam in Columbus. Leaning towards NoLoam's colorless list. Can you give a brief sideboarding/matchup guide if you have the chance? I can only borrow legacy decks so I don't get much opportunity to test!

[Noloam_]

Thanks for all the work - thinking of playing this or 4C Loam in Columbus. Leaning towards NoLoam's colorless list. Can you give a brief sideboarding/matchup guide if you have the chance? I can only borrow legacy decks so I don't get much opportunity to test!

my sideboardguide is on page 36 of this topic

[ChrisDissent]

perhaps you shouldnt buy the 2th city. riehu and i agree that it is quite a crappy card. i whould play 2 wasteland extra + 1 tower (if you cant afford those: 2 tower of the magistrate and 1 waste to have a better match vs blade and shardless decks.)

Thanks Noloam for your advice. I'll buy as soon as I can the Caverns, and then the extra Wasteland, but until that I will stick to what you've said (2 TotM + 1 Wasteland).
Thanks !

[BlackYoshi]

my sideboardguide is on page 36 of this topic
Thanks!

Have you liked the double urborg/2 cities? Any consideration to karakas or is being able to turn eyes into shops too valuable

[Noloam_]

Thanks!

Have you liked the double urborg/2 cities? Any consideration to karakas or is being able to turn eyes into shops too valuable

yes i think dubbel urborg is perfect. the synergy with Eye is just too good. it also prevents getting to much damage from tomb. i dislike karakas, not only because there are better options, but because it doenst give colorless

[BlackYoshi]

I know you've mentioned your version being bad for the mirror - anything youve considered adding in the colorless build? Or if you want an edge in the mirror you have to play white/x?

That new displacer d&t deck also looks particularly threatening

[kentheide]

What do you guys consider worse; Blood Moon or Back to Basics?

[Riehu]

I know you've mentioned your version being bad for the mirror - anything youve considered adding in the colorless build? Or if you want an edge in the mirror you have to play white/x?

That new displacer d&t deck also looks particularly threatening

I have played http://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/426187#online lately. It has at least ok mirror as you can remove 4 chalices and 2 thorns. To my limited knowledge wasteland version is still quite even vs W/x builds. Much more consistent mana. Obviously Displacer and World Breaker hurt a lot if it goes there.

[Riehu]

What do you guys consider worse; Blood Moon or Back to Basics?

Hard to say but in a vacuum I would say Blood Moon. Though I seem to have lost more to Back to Basics.

[RhoxWarMonk]

Hard to say but in a vacuum I would say Blood Moon. Though I seem to have lost more to Back to Basics.

This is my thoughts as well.... It FEELS like Blood Moon should be worse, however, for some reason I think I've lost more games to Back to Basics.

Could be a ton of reasons for that though and it's all still SSS.

[the_goat]

This is my thoughts as well.... It FEELS like Blood Moon should be worse, however, for some reason I think I've lost more games to Back to Basics.

Could be a ton of reasons for that though and it's all still SSS.

i managed to win against blood moon i think twice...one time by casting wail in response to make 1/1 for colorless --> smasher the turn after...the other simply winning with mimic/endless ones beatdown
i never managed to beat back to basics....

[jrsthethird]

I want to sleeve up a version of Eldrazi for a testing gauntlet tomorrow. Any suggestions on a pretty standard build that most players at a big event might be playing?

[Noloam_]

I know you've mentioned your version being bad for the mirror - anything youve considered adding in the colorless build? Or if you want an edge in the mirror you have to play white/x?

That new displacer d&t deck also looks particularly threatening

i have no room in the sideboard for extra hate + i dont like displacer



btw back to basics is the biggest problem of all

[aromaticity]

yes i think dubbel urborg is perfect. the synergy with Eye is just too good. it also prevents getting to much damage from tomb. i dislike karakas, not only because there are better options, but because it doenst give colorless

What better options are there compared to Karakas? I assume you mean Endbringer, which is great, but I don't think I could ever consider it better than Karakas at doing the Karakas thing. Karakas can protect you from Reanimator or Marit Lage starting at T1, whereas Endbringer comes online typically T4 at the earliest.

[BlackYoshi]

Trying to decide if id rather have the faerie macabre or a second endbringer in noloams list for columbus

Also what land did you cut for a tower of magistrate when testing it

[BlackYoshi]

Also post board, how aggressively are you mulling for a hate piece (typically leyline)

[Noloam_]

What better options are there compared to Karakas? I assume you mean Endbringer, which is great, but I don't think I could ever consider it better than Karakas at doing the Karakas thing. Karakas can protect you from Reanimator or Marit Lage starting at T1, whereas Endbringer comes online typically T4 at the earliest.

karakas will get wastelanded/ported/ghost quarted before they go off. it can only delay at best, because the always make the token EOT. i do really like it against reanimator. but the one off bullet wont make the difference most of the time.

@black yoshi. i tend to always mull for turn 1 chalice/leyline/faerie. or turn 1 discoball into turn 2 thoughtknot

[Riehu]

Trying to decide if id rather have the faerie macabre or a second endbringer in noloams list for columbus

Also what land did you cut for a tower of magistrate when testing it

I'm going to play this list http://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/426187#online in which I cut Tower for 3rd Wasteland. Still 50:50 if I run 2 AiD or 3. If 2 then I'll add 1 Spatial.

[ironclad8690]

I'm going to play this list http://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/426187#online in which I cut Tower for 3rd Wasteland. Still 50:50 if I run 2 AiD or 3. If 2 then I'll add 1 Spatial.

Funny you mention that, I just cut the Spheres for 1 Endbringer and 1 Spatial today XD

Man, Deathblade is a freaking tough matchup. I nut drew the TKS when he fetched for Batterskull, and of course he Brainstorms it back on top when I cast it. Howcome when we get the Chalice draw they never need BS/Ponder/STP/Spell Pierce, they just play SFM TNN Jace instead, yet when we don't they blow us out with 1 drops?

[Noloam_]

Funny you mention that, I just cut the Spheres for 1 Endbringer and 1 Spatial today XD

Man, Deathblade is a freaking tough matchup. I nut drew the TKS when he fetched for Batterskull, and of course he Brainstorms it back on top when I cast it. Howcome when we get the Chalice draw they never need BS/Ponder/STP/Spell Pierce, they just play SFM TNN Jace instead, yet when we don't they blow us out with 1 drops?

deathblade is the worst match for eldrazi. i lose 8/10 matches. swords/tnn/stoneforge/verdict/snappy/fow is just hidious

[tuhoajatane]

Hello!

I'm new to this forum and to the deck. I played my first tournament with noloam's list last weekend and went 3-3 with it. I beat shardless bug, miracles and merfolk. I lost twice to bug delver and once the mirror.

The bug delver seems to be compleately different animal than the other delver decks and I'd love to here some sideboarding tips for the matchup. Chalice seemed bad because they play 4 decays. They can also lock down the ground with tarmogoyfs while shredding your hand with hymn to tourachs.

Against tarmos I felt like I'd love to play blinkmoth nexus instead of mishra's factories. Have anyone else thought about playing the blinkmoths?

[bonkotsu]

Went 2-0-1 at game night with w/g

Round 1: 2-1 vs Blazing Shoal Infect
Deck is very close to the no ban modern list, some tweaks are adding daze, force, and progenitus
Game 1: Figured what he was doing pretty fast, TKS took out shoal and I just out paced him
Game 2: He had a turn 2 kill, not much going on here
Game 3: He fights my TKS with force, I warping wail his dude in response to a summoners pact, he cant get the kill and loses

Round 2: 2-0 vs U/G Infect
Game 1: Displacer was a power house, he fought over warping wails on my turn and it wasn't much of a fight
Game 2: Second verse same as the first, brought in dismember, baited out some spells to kill his guys, displacer locked down his team

Round 3: Draw vs Burn
We drew to split the credit, played a lot of games for fun, this match just seems unwinnable. I have 2 Zuran Orbs in the side, didn't do much. Only time I won was with a Chalice on 1 and 2. He has bridges in the side to keep me at bay if needed.

Feeling pretty good about the weekend. Wondering if its worth bothering with the Orbs for Burn. Is Leyline of Sanctity too greedy to try to run 4? Im not running Void, using Macabre for Graveyard hate. I just feel like burn is unwinnable.

[Noloam_]

Hello!

I'm new to this forum and to the deck. I played my first tournament with noloam's list last weekend and went 3-3 with it. I beat shardless bug, miracles and merfolk. I lost twice to bug delver and once the mirror.

The bug delver seems to be compleately different animal than the other delver decks and I'd love to here some sideboarding tips for the matchup. Chalice seemed bad because they play 4 decays. They can also lock down the ground with tarmogoyfs while shredding your hand with hymn to tourachs.

Against tarmos I felt like I'd love to play blinkmoth nexus instead of mishra's factories. Have anyone else thought about playing the blinkmoths?

yes i whould understand when people whould cut chalice. i dont cute it, it still is a tempo deck with infinite 1 drops. decay hits most of your good cards, so you cant play arround that one. if he has to decay the chalice and let the 6/6 endless one life, thats fine with me

i board -2 thorn + 2 needle. as in every tempo match