[Primer] Eldrazi Stompy

[Whitefaces]

food chain 2 2 100%

Pretty sure that's not how you calculate match win %...

[Darkness]

Pretty sure that's not how you calculate match win %...

I think it is 2 wins out of 2 matches.

[Whitefaces]

I think it is 2 wins out of 2 matches.

Ah I see, thought it meant 2-2!

[fireiced]

You keep in ESG in the miracles MU? In Noloam and my Sb guide you take them out as you want a high density of threats. ESG&SSG gives you fewer threats. I guess the argument of blowing out Miracles with one of their Bomb cards against us works, but what if they have two :tongue:!

I MB Thorns x2 and side out Dismember + Jitte vs all variants of Miracles (yes even 4x Mentor Variants). I believe it is more of a playstyle. ESG/SSG to fuel the initial rush and ESG/SSG to fuel the Eye of Ugin tutor for Ulamog. I am personally surprised at how difficult it is to activate Eye vs such a slow matchup in a timely fashion. (Bloody Temples do not produce 2 mana for Eye activations!:mad: )

[Darkness]

Anyone have any last minute innovations for stock Noloam 75. He has been occupied with work and other activities and will not be actively playing on modo for the moment. Anyone have thoughts on Basilisk Collar?

[fireiced]

Anyone have any last minute innovations for stock Noloam 75. He has been occupied with work and other activities and will not be actively playing on modo for the moment. Anyone have thoughts on Basilisk Collar?

I dislike Collar unless we are on the Endbringer plan.

Ran a local going 4-1. Lost to friend piloting Aluren using the valuetown BUG build. After slinging like 30 games after the event I believe we are actually quite even.

My SB goes like this
+ all the removal in my sb + all the needle effects + world breaker

on the play
- 2 thorns - 2 matter reshaper

on the draw
- 4 chalice of the void

A key thing to note is that Endless One is stellar vs Aluren. Just remember to scale it to 3/3 to punch through the crane. They absolutely hate Jitte :tongue: while Warping Wail has a million targets.

I believe further innovations for Eldrazi is mostly in our SB and how we want to steer the deck's % vs certain matchups. I for one ignore the Show & Tell variant matchup as shown in my SB below. Note that I play 1 Dismember 1 Jitte only in MB and played 2 Thorns in the vacant 2 slots.

Sideboard
1 Thorn of Amethyst
2 Ratchet Bomb
1 Warping Wail
1 Dismember
1 Pithing Needle
1 Phyrexian Revoker
1 World Breaker
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
1 All is Dust
1 Faerie Macabre
4 Leyline of the Void

[bonkotsu]

This was my 75 this week

4 Ancient Tomb
4 Cavern of Souls
2 City of Traitors
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Eye of Ugin
2 Mishra's Factory
3 Wasteland
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth

4 Eldrazi Mimic
1 Endbringer
4 Endless One
4 Matter Reshaper
2 Oblivion Sower
4 Reality Smasher
4 Simian Spirit Guide
3 Thought-Knot Seer


2 Dismember
1 Warping Wail
2 Umezawa's jitte
4 Chalice of the Void


SIDEBOARD
2 All Is Dust
3 Leyline of the Void
2 Pithing Needle
1 Dismember
4 Thorn of Amethyst
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
2 Warping Wail

I went 3-0 for our weekly and jammed a bunch of games vs taxes and RG lands.

Round 1 ANT
2-0
I know what this guy is on each week, game 1 I kept a pretty hateful hand and game 2 I had a mull to 6 with pure hate if he doesn't turn 1 me.

Round 2 Tin Fins
2-1
Game 1 on the play I turn 1 a chalice, rip up his hand with TKS, he scoops
Game 2 on the draw he vomits and kills me on his turn 2
Game 3 on the play I have Leyline, thorn, chalice, and a couple of critters, he scoops after turn 3

Round 3 BR Reanimator / Necrotic Ooze combo
2-1
Couldn't remember if he was on regular BR or that strange Ooze list that did well a few tournaments ago right off the bat, so I figured if he is on the play he has me no matter what. Both games after I played a piece of hate, the deck seemed to just topple over itself.

Games vs Taxes
60-40 Squids favored
These were all main board games, I felt very favored, there were a few games where he was able to out stabilize me beyond recovery.

Games vs Lands
55-45 Squid favored
Now this was strange, I remember lands being absolutely miserable to play against. He was on the portless version with ghost quarter and manabond. Rest of it still stock, when he snagged the loam / manabond nonsense I was helpless. Or even waste lock. If I stuck a chalice and even got a mild tempo he couldn't handle the pressure. All I remember is feeling helpess vs RG Lands and Turbo Depths but these games felt more even. Maybe it was the player?

I am set on taking squids to the GP, may need to tweak maybe 5 cards of the 75.

Do people have preference over Faerie Macabre vs Leyline of the Void? When I played WG squid I ran Macabre, lately it has been Leyline.

Also how do you guys like 3-ball in the side as a one of? I used to always run a singleton main or side to catch some irritating decks.

Have people tried Cursed Totem or Torpor Orb vs Aluren at all?

[Darkness]

This was my 75 this week

4 Ancient Tomb
4 Cavern of Souls
2 City of Traitors
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Eye of Ugin
2 Mishra's Factory
3 Wasteland
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth

4 Eldrazi Mimic
1 Endbringer
4 Endless One
4 Matter Reshaper
2 Oblivion Sower
4 Reality Smasher
4 Simian Spirit Guide
3 Thought-Knot Seer


2 Dismember
1 Warping Wail
2 Umezawa's jitte
4 Chalice of the Void


SIDEBOARD
2 All Is Dust
3 Leyline of the Void
2 Pithing Needle
1 Dismember
4 Thorn of Amethyst
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
2 Warping Wail

I went 3-0 for our weekly and jammed a bunch of games vs taxes and RG lands.

Round 1 ANT
2-0
I know what this guy is on each week, game 1 I kept a pretty hateful hand and game 2 I had a mull to 6 with pure hate if he doesn't turn 1 me.

Round 2 Tin Fins
2-1
Game 1 on the play I turn 1 a chalice, rip up his hand with TKS, he scoops
Game 2 on the draw he vomits and kills me on his turn 2
Game 3 on the play I have Leyline, thorn, chalice, and a couple of critters, he scoops after turn 3

Round 3 BR Reanimator / Necrotic Ooze combo
2-1
Couldn't remember if he was on regular BR or that strange Ooze list that did well a few tournaments ago right off the bat, so I figured if he is on the play he has me no matter what. Both games after I played a piece of hate, the deck seemed to just topple over itself.

Games vs Taxes
60-40 Squids favored
These were all main board games, I felt very favored, there were a few games where he was able to out stabilize me beyond recovery.

Games vs Lands
55-45 Squid favored
Now this was strange, I remember lands being absolutely miserable to play against. He was on the portless version with ghost quarter and manabond. Rest of it still stock, when he snagged the loam / manabond nonsense I was helpless. Or even waste lock. If I stuck a chalice and even got a mild tempo he couldn't handle the pressure. All I remember is feeling helpess vs RG Lands and Turbo Depths but these games felt more even. Maybe it was the player?

I am set on taking squids to the GP, may need to tweak maybe 5 cards of the 75.

Do people have preference over Faerie Macabre vs Leyline of the Void? When I played WG squid I ran Macabre, lately it has been Leyline.

Also how do you guys like 3-ball in the side as a one of? I used to always run a singleton main or side to catch some irritating decks.

Have people tried Cursed Totem or Torpor Orb vs Aluren at all?

Leyline is just better can't be instant speed messed around with and both BR and UB reanimator decks use sneak attack and show and tell to get around hate cards. Leyline is stronger against lands.

I do not think trinisphere is needed it seems like it helps you're already good match ups.

I also think the suggested hate for aluren is not a good idea as they run decay.

How was the Ulamog in your testing.

[BoostersDraught]

SIDEBOARD
2 All Is Dust
3 Leyline of the Void
2 Pithing Needle
1 Dismember
4 Thorn of Amethyst
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
2 Warping Wail


How does this sideboard beat an Ensnaring Bridge? And with only 3 TKS's it's hard to pull it out of their hand.

Also I know everyone has talked about Sower but is it that much better than Endbringer? Im thinking endbringer is better against Sneak and Show and helps in the creature matchups.

Lastly, I'm going back to the White splash for Displacer that I went 12-4 at GP Columbus. I struggled with Tarmogoyf (my oppenents always got them in multiples) but I'm thinking about adding Basilisk Collar or Relics (in addition to Leylines) for more GY hate against BR and Lands.

[bonkotsu]

How does this sideboard beat an Ensnaring Bridge? And with only 3 TKS's it's hard to pull it out of their hand.

Also I know everyone has talked about Sower but is it that much better than Endbringer? Im thinking endbringer is better against Sneak and Show and helps in the creature matchups.

Lastly, I'm going back to the White splash for Displacer that I went 12-4 at GP Columbus. I struggled with Tarmogoyf (my oppenents always got them in multiples) but I'm thinking about adding Basilisk Collar or Relics (in addition to Leylines) for more GY hate against BR and Lands.

I did well at Columbus also with Displacer in my old diamond build. Supposed to be 4 tks 3 ssg, I messed up when converting. Sower generally is always a goyf, if not bigger goyf. You are correct, colorless doesn't deal well with bridge. The best bet is to ratchet bomb it after a few turns which is terrible vs burn and a few other decks that have been bringing it in.

I do miss being able to displacer my tks to constantly rip out hands, displacer mid combat to trigger mimics, and sb worldbreaker. Colorless has been more consistent for me though.

[bonkotsu]

Leyline is just better can't be instant speed messed around with and both BR and UB reanimator decks use sneak attack and show and tell to get around hate cards. Leyline is stronger against lands.

I do not think trinisphere is needed it seems like it helps you're already good match ups.

I also think the suggested hate for aluren is not a good idea as they run decay.

How was the Ulamog in your testing.

Ulamog is okay, he is fine against the grindier decks. Against shardless I remember bouncing him with karakas when my opponent played a lili, replayed, attacking, rinse repeat. He hasn't been amazing but in the longer games he obviously turns the tide.

[bonkotsu]

http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=107766

This was my 75 for the GP and local events when I was on Displacer. Basically swapping out the Sower spots for displacer, petal vs ssg or esg. Sideboard was garbage. I also hated not running wastelands but I remember mana being rough. Maybe it was only rough when I was running diamond and factory could be wastelands? Could there be a way to fit in containment priest into the white builds to help with the cheat decks? Also displacer opponents idiot while he is out is fine.

[and3h]

http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=107766

This was my 75 for the GP and local events when I was on Displacer. Basically swapping out the Sower spots for displacer, petal vs ssg or esg. Sideboard was garbage. I also hated not running wastelands but I remember mana being rough. Maybe it was only rough when I was running diamond and factory could be wastelands? Could there be a way to fit in containment priest into the white builds to help with the cheat decks? Also displacer opponents idiot while he is out is fine.

http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?30943-Thalia-Stompy/ is where some guys are talking about a white splash with containment priests, Thalia and eldrazi stuff. Might be worth your time checking out.

[Darkness]

Landed in Louisville going to test slight alternation to stock list details tomorrow night. If anyone wants to meet up private message me and we can collaborate tomorrow.

[bonkotsu]

Landed in Louisville going to test slight alternation to stock list details tomorrow night. If anyone wants to meet up private message me and we can collaborate tomorrow.

Hows the weather there right now? We leave in the morning

[Darkness]

Hows the weather there right now? We leave in the morning

Weather is fine I'm from northern jersey so the snow quantity is super light, but I've been told that the locals are freaking out for no reason. If you want to meet up to get a sudo team going private message me.

[Darkness]

4-3 Drop since I was starving.
Meta seemed Eldrazi hostile

Round 1 - Red and Taxes 2-1
Round 2 - Dark Maverick 2-1
Round 3 - Death and Taxes 2-1
Round 4 - BR Reanimator 0-2
Round 5 - UR Delver 2-0
Round 6 - Death and Taxes 0-2
Round 7 - Shardless BUG 0-2

No miracles players played. Was tired and hungry decided to hang with my friend for the remainder of the time here.

[dudedusty]

So, I have been considering adding 1-2 Worldbreakers main, but don't want to screw with the mana base. I haven't had a chance to test it yet, so this is all theory, but would anyone here see an issue with replacing SSG with Elvish Spirit Guide? I can't think of any, but if someone could, it'd be great to hear about.

[MGB]

Very few Eldrazi decks at the top tables in Louisville.

Why is Eldrazi not doing so well in Legacy anymore at big events?

[Quasim0ff]

Very few Eldrazi decks at the top tables in Louisville.

Why is Eldrazi not doing so well in Legacy anymore at big events?

The combodecks are Show and Tell and B/R reanimator instead of ANT. Miracles aren't just dead to Chalice, Delver has evolved and isn't just dead to chalice. BUG is significantly boosted due to Leovold, and true name nemesis' are seing a lot of play again.

[Darkness]

Going to work on altering the deck for current meta.

[Dr Brian Pepper]

It looks to be a lot of creature based decks, maybe adding All is Dust main will help the deck out?

[fireiced]

So, I have been considering adding 1-2 Worldbreakers main, but don't want to screw with the mana base. I haven't had a chance to test it yet, so this is all theory, but would anyone here see an issue with replacing SSG with Elvish Spirit Guide? I can't think of any, but if someone could, it'd be great to hear about.

The singleton Worldbreaker is fine with 4 Cavern of Souls and 3 ESG. The 2nd is not fine with just 7ish sources

[Serapha]

Very few Eldrazi decks at the top tables in Louisville.

Why is Eldrazi not doing so well in Legacy anymore at big events?

My theory is that most Eldrazi players are somewhat new to the format. Its a "cheap" way into an expensive format and is therefore an attractive first choice of deck. However it is also a format that rewards the experienced player, making Eldrazi's results in big tournaments rather non-existing. How many top-tier pilots are actually on Eldrazi at a GP? (No offense, Darkness)

All theories. Please question it all.

[Darkness]

So after analyzing the meta I have decided to steer away from Noloam's colorless version, The meta is evolving to be more creature and Sneak and Show centric and if Eldrazi is to have a place at the top of the meta than killing sacred cows must become an option. I am going to be playing 100 matches with a W/u variant of Eldrazi for Displacer main deck and Drowner in the board. The goal is to keep a low curve to be able to have mana open late game to control the board in creature matches. It also helps against SnS and Mariet Liage decks. If the thread requires me to go under up and coming or established I will relocate this new idea. Here is the list for the curious ones.


Creatures (22)
4x Endless One
4x Eldrazi Mimic
4x Thought-Knot Seer
4x Reality Smasher
3x Eldrazi Displacer
3x Matter Reshaper

Spells (13)
4x Chalice of the Void
3x Lotus Petal
2x Umezawa's Jitte
2x Dismember
2x Warping Wail

Lands (25)
4x Ancient Tomb
4x Cavern of Souls
4x Adarkar Wastes
4x Eye of Ugin
4x Eldrazi Temple
2x Karakas
2x City of Traitors
1x Wasteland

Sideboard (15)
4x Thorn of Amethyst
4x Leyline of the Void
2x Drowner of Hope
2x Pithing Needle
2x All is Dust
1x Warping Wail

Feel free to post opinions. I know the topic has been discussed in the past but I am looking for the future. The white splash gives you an edge on creatures and sneak and show. I know that Lotus Petal is more of a liability than SSG, but I don't feel that con outweighs the pros of going into the splash.

[Abantau]

@Darkness this colorless build looks interesting http://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=14414&d=286234&f=LE but can't afford the forcefield.

[Darkness]

@Darkness this colorless build looks interesting http://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=14414&d=286234&f=LE but can't afford the forcefield.

Looks cool, Doesn't assist you in controlling the board state that much.

[Dr Brian Pepper]

So after analyzing the meta I have decided to steer away from Noloam's colorless version, The meta is evolving to be more creature and Sneak and Show centric and if Eldrazi is to have a place at the top of the meta than killing sacred cows must become an option. I am going to be playing 100 matches with a W/u variant of Eldrazi for Displacer main deck and Drowner in the board. The goal is to keep a low curve to be able to have mana open late game to control the board in creature matches. It also helps against SnS and Mariet Liage decks. If the thread requires me to go under up and coming or established I will relocate this new idea. Here is the list for the curious ones.


Creatures (22)
4x Endless One
4x Eldrazi Mimic
4x Thought-Knot Seer
4x Reality Smasher
3x Eldrazi Displacer
3x Matter Reshaper

Spells (13)
4x Chalice of the Void
3x Lotus Petal
2x Umezawa's Jitte
2x Dismember
2x Warping Wail

Lands (25)
4x Ancient Tomb
4x Cavern of Souls
4x Adarkar Wastes
4x Eye of Ugin
4x Eldrazi Temple
2x Karakas
2x City of Traitors
1x Wasteland

Sideboard (15)
4x Thorn of Amethyst
4x Leyline of the Void
2x Drowner of Hope
2x Pithing Needle
2x All is Dust
1x Warping Wail

Feel free to post opinions. I know the topic has been discussed in the past but I am looking for the future. The white splash gives you an edge on creatures and sneak and show. I know that Lotus Petal is more of a liability than SSG, but I don't feel that con outweighs the pros of going into the splash.


With the meta evolving, is The G/W talisman seems okay, Myabe replace the lotus petal with them, and run main all is dust? The format seems to be very creature heavy right now

[hofzge]

Creatures (22)
4x Endless One
4x Eldrazi Mimic
4x Thought-Knot Seer
4x Reality Smasher
3x Eldrazi Displacer
3x Matter Reshaper

Spells (13)
4x Chalice of the Void
3x Lotus Petal
2x Umezawa's Jitte
2x Dismember
2x Warping Wail

Lands (25)
4x Ancient Tomb
4x Cavern of Souls
4x Adarkar Wastes
4x Eye of Ugin
4x Eldrazi Temple
2x Karakas
2x City of Traitors
1x Wasteland

Sideboard (15)
4x Thorn of Amethyst
4x Leyline of the Void
2x Drowner of Hope
2x Pithing Needle
2x All is Dust
1x Warping Wail

Feel free to post opinions. I know the topic has been discussed in the past but I am looking for the future. The white splash gives you an edge on creatures and sneak and show. I know that Lotus Petal is more of a liability than SSG, but I don't feel that con outweighs the pros of going into the splash.

Great! Exactly my idea I kept posting - The Displaceer is great in matchups that are hard for colorless Eldrazi (Lands, Reanimator, Sneak & Show) and he is also not shabby just in fair creature magic e.g. against Tarmogoyf. You just have to have some non-Ancient Tomb lands or else ;)

I like the Drowner Sideboard - Great at keeping Grisel and friends in check.

How about replacing another Dismember with a Warping Wail? This also helps against Reanimator and S&S. I am playing 3 Warping Wail and no Dismember as you now have some additional removal in the form of Displacer/Drowner.

[benoasan]

So after analyzing the meta I have decided to steer away from Noloam's colorless version, The meta is evolving to be more creature and Sneak and Show centric and if Eldrazi is to have a place at the top of the meta than killing sacred cows must become an option. I am going to be playing 100 matches with a W/u variant of Eldrazi for Displacer main deck and Drowner in the board. The goal is to keep a low curve to be able to have mana open late game to control the board in creature matches. It also helps against SnS and Mariet Liage decks. If the thread requires me to go under up and coming or established I will relocate this new idea. Here is the list for the curious ones.

Feel free to post opinions. I know the topic has been discussed in the past but I am looking for the future. The white splash gives you an edge on creatures and sneak and show. I know that Lotus Petal is more of a liability than SSG, but I don't feel that con outweighs the pros of going into the splash.

Why play Drowner of Hoper over Endbringer? My feeling is that Endbringer is easier to play and is basically a more powerful Drowner of hope?

In addition, I think that 4x Adarkar Wastes is too much. Majority of list playing 4 Displacers have only 2 pain lands (in addition to 4 caverns and 2 karakas).

Actually, I am playing this list:

1 [] Caves of Koilos
1 [MM] Tower of the Magistrate
1 [] Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2 [LG] Karakas
2 [TE] Wasteland
3 [EX] City of Traitors
4 [TE] Ancient Tomb
4 [AVR] Cavern of Souls
4 [ROE] Eldrazi Temple
4 [WWK] Eye of Ugin

2 [] Endbringer
3 [] Eldrazi Displacer
3 [] Matter Reshaper
4 [] Eldrazi Mimic
4 [] Endless One
4 [] Reality Smasher
4 [] Thought-Knot Seer

2 [BOK] Umezawa's Jitte
4 [MR] Chalice of the Void

2 [NPH] Dismember
2 [] Warping Wail

SB: 2 [] Phyrexian Revoker
SB: 2 [M14] Ratchet Bomb
SB: 4 [M11] Leyline of the Void
SB: 3 [ROE] All Is Dust
SB: 4 [LRW] Thorn of Amethyst

I have never loose versus any Show and Tell/Sneak attack deck. Reanimator is also easy thanks to Karakas/Leyline and Thorn.

Lands is still very hard cause they now play 4 wasteland & 4 ghost quarter. I think we have to mulligan and find Leyline to be able to beat them.

I have only one Caves of koilos cause I have only 3 displacer and I have no problem to find a white mana source (7 in the deck) to cast it.
I have one tower of magistrate cause in my meta is heavily Baleful Strix (but still didn't test it).

Displacer is a very nice guy. In addition to block creature in aggro matchup, you can combo with TKS to remove angels/terminus from Miracle matchup or control draw versus combo matchup. You can also remove batterskull's germ. However, this guy need a lot of mana to be effective...


How about replacing another Dismember with a Warping Wail? This also helps against Reanimator and S&S. I am playing 3 Warping Wail and no Dismember as you now have some additional removal in the form of Displacer/Drowner.

This is really interesting. I have no ideas about how the deck is worse if I remove dismembers. However, I am not sure to pack additional Warping wail cause this card is sometime awesome and sometime just did nothing. Two feel nice.
I was thinking about add a fourth displacer (but if you have already one guy in the battlefield, the second one is useless) or pack the fourth reshapper... In addition, we can have some revoker MD or I was thinking (with additional caves of koilos) about 2 Bearer of silence. Not sure if it's a good idea but this guy is flying and can remove a lot of problems, but it's 4 ccm whith 1 black...
Maybe add some lotus petal to help mana could be a very good idea (remove 3 reshapper and 2 dislocation for 2 bearer and 3 petal?)...

One last thing about switching from colorless to white/eldrazi, you will loose a lot of speed but become more control. The late game is also more powerful. Maybe it's better in the meta actually... But it's sure funnier to play!

[hofzge]

Why play Drowner of Hoper over Endbringer? My feeling is that Endbringer is easier to play and is basically a more powerful Drowner of hope?


I guess if you play 4 Displacers the Drowner is better - otherwise I agree that the Endbringer is usually better.

Also agree on the Adarkar wastes: With 4 Cavern, 3 Lotus, 2 Adarkar Wastes and 2 Karakas for the Displacer and 4 Cavern, 3 Lotus and 2 Adarkar Wastes for the Drowner (a late game card) you should be golden. I play only monoW and play 4 Cavern, 3 Lotus, 2 Plains and 2 Karakas for the Displacer and have seldomly had problems with that.

[gozak83]

Went 10-5 at the GP, played the following list:

4 Eldrazi Mimic
4 Endless One
3 Matter Reshaper
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
2 Oblivion Sower
1 Endbringer
3 Simian Spirit Guide

4 Chalice of the Void
2 Dismember
2 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Thorn of Amethyst

4 Ancient Tomb
4 Eldrazi Temple
2 City of Traitors
4 Eye of Ugin
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
3 Mishra's Factory
3 Wasteland
4 Cavern of Souls

Sideboard:
2 Thorn of Amethyst
2 Torpor Orb
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
2 Confusion in the Ranks
4 Leyline of the Void
2 Pithing Needle
2 All is Dust

I played:

Round 1: B/G Pox - Won
Round 2: D&T - Lost
Round 3: Punishing Jund - Lost
Round 4: Dark Maverick - Won
Round 5: Shardless BUG- Won
Round 6: Fish - Won
Round 7: Miracles - Won
Round 8: Shardless BUG - Lost
Round 9: Miracles - Won
Round 10: Fish - Won
Round 11: Infect - Won
Round 12: Sneak and Show - Lost
Round 13: Punishing Maverick - Won
Round 14: D&T - Won
Round 15: MUD - Lost

Overall, I got pretty lucky and ran into pretty favorable matchups and dodged some of the really bad ones until late. The only matches where I felt hopelessly behind were the Round 8 Shardless BUG match and the Round 12 Sneak and Show match. Especially in the Sneak and Show match, game 2 I mulliganed into this hand: Mimic, Pithing Needle, Wasteland, Endbringer, Factory, Mimic with a Temple on top. I figured I could win against any of his Show of Tell targets... except for Omniscience, which was the one he had.

Going forward, I think I might switch out the Confusion in the Ranks for Emrakuls instead. I also want to put Warping Wail back in the 75, but Torpor Orb over-performed in the D&T matchup and I have a feeling it would do well in Aluren and Elves also.

[d00mwake]

Maybe if you're having trouble with Omniscience you could try out Ashen Rider? Although it does not cover Sneak Attack.

EDIT: Also, out of curiosity what matchup is Torpor Orb mainly for? I'm sure it's very obvious and I'm just missing it.

EDIT 2: Aluren, nevermind.

[Secretly.A.Bee]

So you are taking out Confusion in the Ranks even though the loss to SnT could have been won had you drawn it. Am I missing something? Isn't mainboard amethyst just worse than Warping wail?

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

[gozak83]

So you are taking out Confusion in the Ranks even though the loss to SnT could have been won had you drawn it. Am I missing something? Isn't mainboard amethyst just worse than Warping wail?

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

Mainboard Amethyst may very well be worse than Warping Wail - it was kind of underwhelming all day and didn't slow down decks in game 1 as much as I thought it would.

The thing to consider with Confusion over Emrakul is being able to actually cast it if need be versus Sneak and Show. Really, I wish those two slots were for sideboard cards that had a broader range than against one deck, but there isn't much that is available that fits that niche.

[Secretly.A.Bee]

Mainboard Amethyst may very well be worse than Warping Wail - it was kind of underwhelming all day and didn't slow down decks in game 1 as much as I thought it would.

The thing to consider with Confusion over Emrakul is being able to actually cast it if need be versus Sneak and Show. Really, I wish those two slots were for sideboard cards that had a broader range than against one deck, but there isn't much that is available that fits that niche.
Well, you have monkey mana, plus afaik SnT lists I've been seeing are running 2-3 moon effects sb. I can't imagine they leave those out games 2/3 against eldrazi. Or do you mean that 5 is hard to get to if moon is on the field?

[hofzge]

The thing to consider with Confusion over Emrakul is being able to actually cast it if need be versus Sneak and Show. Really, I wish those two slots were for sideboard cards that had a broader range than against one deck, but there isn't much that is available that fits that niche.

I think the one and only thing that fits into this category is Spine of Ish Sah which accidentally also kills Blood Moon.

[gozak83]

Well, you have monkey mana, plus afaik SnT lists I've been seeing are running 2-3 moon effects sb. I can't imagine they leave those out games 2/3 against eldrazi. Or do you mean that 5 is hard to get to if moon is on the field?

Sorry, I meant the RR is hard to get if they don't have Blood Moon. If they do, then everything is gravy. That being said, I am seeing more Back to Basics, so the free roll of getting RR off of Blood Moon is decreasing.


I think the one and only thing that fits into this category is Spine of Ish Sah which accidentally also kills Blood Moon.

Yeah, Spine might just be better than Confusion in that spot.

[contra]

@darkness

Why are you totally reworking the deck because it didn't do well at 1 tournament? If you're worried about S&T/reanimator, why not just increase the number of warping wails or additional karakas in the SB? Splashing white for displacer has its advantages, but it decreases consistency.

Take a look at the Brainstorm Show's eldrazi list they came up with in February of last year. It runs 4 Revokers, 2 endbringers, and 3 warping wails which all seem good against fatty decks.

Creatures (22)

4 Eldrazi Mimic
4 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Endless One
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
2 Endbringer

Spells (14)

4 Chalice of the Void
2 Trinisphere
3 Warping Wail
2 Dismember
2 Umezawa’s Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice

Lands (24)

4 Ancient Tomb
3 City of Traitors
4 Eldrazi Temple
3 Eye of Ugin
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Wasteland
2 Mishra’s Factory

SB (15)

1 Dismember
3 Spatial Contortion
2 Ratchet Bomb
3 Winter Orb
4 Leyline of the Void
2 Mindbreak Trap

[Jack Miton]

Did you really put winter orb in the SB of a deck that needs access to like 18* mana to function?



*possibly slight exaggeration but not by much

[contra]

Did you really put winter orb in the SB of a deck that needs access to like 18* mana to function?



*possibly slight exaggeration but not by much


that's the brainstorm shows list - and winter orb is a great sb card against miracles and lands. Our lands tap for 2 and eye of ugin doesn't even need to tap so there's a ton of synergy.

Here's what I'm currently running:
4 Eldrazi Mimic
4 Endless One
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
1 Endbringer
4 Chalice of the Void
2 Warping Wail
2 Dismember
2 Umezawa's Jitte
4 Ancient Tomb
2 City of Traitors
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Eye of Ugin
4 Cavern of Souls
3 Wasteland
2 Mishra's Factory
2 Oblivion Sower
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
3 Matter Reshaper
2 Simian Spirit Guide
1 Phyrexian Revoker
SB: 2 Ratchet Bomb
SB: 4 Leyline of the Void
SB: 2 All Is Dust
SB: 1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
SB: 2 Karakas
SB: 3 Thorn of Amethyst
SB: 1 Pithing Needle

[Jack Miton]

Is it wourth having the karakas in the SB rather than just running them main over, say, a factory and an urborg?

[d00mwake]

Here is a 5-0 list from the most recent Magic Online league that was posted(Qernavak):

4 Endless One
4 Eldrazi Mimic
4 Matter Reshaper
3 Simian Spirit Guide
2 Phyrexian Metamorph
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher

2 Dismember
2 All is Dust
4 Chalice of the Void
2 Umezawa's Jitte

4 Ancient Tomb
4 Cavern of Souls
2 City of Traitors
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Eye of Ugin
1 Karakas
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Wasteland
1 Wastes

SB
1 Karakas
2 Pithing Needle
2 Ratchet Bomb
2 Warping Wail
4 Leyline of the Void
2 Oblivion Sower
1 All is Dust
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger

The reason I point this one out specifically is I really like what is going on with the numbers. All is Dust main makes a lot more sense now given the rise in popularity of TNN decks, and not only having them main but having access to a third in the SB seems like a great place to be now. I also like the Metamorphs quite a bit against these True Name decks as well, either copying their Nemesis itself and being able to race or making an additional Smasher to try and get through the TNN itself. Unclear on the one Wastes but I can see why it's there, and I'm not sure how I feel about omitting Thorn of Amethyst entirely. Thoughts?

[Qernavak]

Here is a 5-0 list from the most recent Magic Online league that was posted(Qernavak):

4 Endless One
4 Eldrazi Mimic
4 Matter Reshaper
3 Simian Spirit Guide
2 Phyrexian Metamorph
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher

2 Dismember
2 All is Dust
4 Chalice of the Void
2 Umezawa's Jitte

4 Ancient Tomb
4 Cavern of Souls
2 City of Traitors
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Eye of Ugin
1 Karakas
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Wasteland
1 Wastes

SB
1 Karakas
2 Pithing Needle
2 Ratchet Bomb
2 Warping Wail
4 Leyline of the Void
2 Oblivion Sower
1 All is Dust
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger

The reason I point this one out specifically is I really like what is going on with the numbers. All is Dust main makes a lot more sense now given the rise in popularity of TNN decks, and not only having them main but having access to a third in the SB seems like a great place to be now. I also like the Metamorphs quite a bit against these True Name decks as well, either copying their Nemesis itself and being able to race or making an additional Smasher to try and get through the TNN itself. Unclear on the one Wastes but I can see why it's there, and I'm not sure how I feel about omitting Thorn of Amethyst entirely. Thoughts?

My compiled results from modo are here:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/180zXCfQZwP27svHblhF5kS3YL1LYZZrm27oF3rMAJ5A/edit?usp=sharing

This rough list is in response to the metagame shift. As you suspected, I tuned it for the TNN decks that suddenly became abundant, but also to increase its aggressiveness and speed in response to the rise of non-storm combo decks. the metamorphs provide additional insurance vs. SnT by being able to copy the creature they drop. So far it's doing just fine, I don't have enough matches to tune it further or to assess whether it is a good list.

Thorns were taken out because I haven't seen storm at all, and I don't really like to bring it vs. other decks where it's not stellar. I already have a good matchup vs. miracles, so I don't really see which matchups are left where it would be necessary.

2 Oblivion Sower in the SB are for improving the miracles matchup and other Leyline matchups.

List is in early development, I would encourage anyone trying it to give it its own variation.

[Rascalyote]

the metamorphs provide additional insurance vs. SnT by being able to copy the creature they drop. So far it's doing just fine, I don't have enough matches to tune it further or to assess whether it is a good list.



I hope you don't mean dropping Metamorph off the SnT as they drop the creature because that doesn't work as the clone can't become a copy of a creature entering the battlefield at the same time. And playing metamorph the turn after they show a creature seems too slow, especially if it's Emrakul where they just smash and annihilate your board.

(Not hating on the card, I love metamorph)

[Qernavak]

I hope you don't mean dropping Metamorph off the SnT as they drop the creature because that doesn't work as the clone can't become a copy of a creature entering the battlefield at the same time. And playing metamorph the turn after they show a creature seems too slow, especially if it's Emrakul where they just smash and annihilate your board.

(Not hating on the card, I love metamorph)

I stand corrected, metaphor on SnT wouldn't have worked.

[Serapha]

Been testing with ESP and World Breaker and do not believe that this will be a "thing".

Have been testing with Metamorph afterwards and must say... I am impressed. When you want it to be a TKS, its a TKS. When you need a Smasher, its a Smasher. Copying the opponents creatures has also been mighty fine as well as being an extra hate artifact (thorn e.g.) - Its just never a bad draw.

[SeveredAffect]

I really like the idea of metamorph given the meta flop. Has anyone tried smuggler's copter? I keep seeing it in paper tournaments but not online. My friend who went to GP louisville said he also saw a skysoveriegn at the top tables as well. I'm Deffinetly up for giving it a shot but wanted some more opinions on vehicles.

[cddungan]

Hello! Long time lurker on this thread, finally got the time to post my tournament report from last November at Grand Prix Chiba. I went 11-4 and finished #74 out of 2503 players. 7-2 on Day 1 and 4-2 on Day 2. Here's what I used:

deck image uploaded here: http://i65.tinypic.com/jtkifn.jpg

I designed the deck in a way that it retains the blitz nut draw (mimic-tks-smashers) and at the same time have strong mid to end game due to multiple activations of Eye of Ugin with the help of Grim Monoliths. True, Simian Spirit Guides can let you cast All is Dust, but monolith makes it more realistic.

Counts : 60 main / 15 sideboard

Creatures:22
4 Endless One
4 Eldrazi Mimic
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
2 Endbringer
4 Oblivion Sower

Spells:14
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Grim Monolith
2 Umezawa's Jitte
3 Warping Wail
1 Dismember

Lands:24
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Cavern of Souls
4 City of Traitors
4 Eldrazi Temple
3 Eye of Ugin
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
3 Wasteland

Sideboard:15
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
2 Ratchet Bomb
1 Dismember
2 Trinisphere
3 Helm of Obedience
4 Leyline of the Void
2 All Is Dust

My matchups are as follows:
R1 & R2: Bye
R3: Miracles - Win
R4: Miracles - Win
R5: Death and Taxes - Win
R6: Merfolk - Loss
R7: Ad Nauseam Tendrils - Win
R8: Death and Taxes - Loss
R9: Grixis Delver - Win
R10: Eldrazi Mirror - Win
R11: Merfolk - Loss
R12: Punishing Jund - Loss
R13: Miraxles - Win
R14: Manaless Dredge - Win
R15: OmniTell - Win

Keypoints
- Turn 2 Oblivion Sower is a very strong play; backbreaking especially against the noloam version (Eldrazi Mirror)
- Grim Monolith "realistically" lets you cast end game haymakers like Ulamog/All is Dust
- Grim Monolith makes your Eye of Ugins more Potent
- Grim Monolith should be viewed as the Legacy counter-part of "Noble Hierarch" from Modern Bant Eldrazi since it enables sick draws
- Grim Monolith makes you resilient to Blood Moon
- Grim Monolith makes the combo alternate wincon work in a way that a T2 kill is possible (T0 Leyline T1 Monolith T2 Helm)
- Ulamog is strong against miracles; 2 of my Miracles wins are due to Ulamog exiling their Ensnaring Bridge/Moat
- On worse matchups, which are almost unwinnable, comboing them out with Helm-Leyline works.
- Damage from Dismembers and Ancient Tombs are real. True Name Nemesis is tough to beat
- Jund is a very tough matchup especially when they got the DRS-Wasteland-Liliana hand
- Thorns are horrible, tried a lot of versions of Eldrazi and I just decided to settle with Trinispheres to save SB slots as well

[Silverflame]

For those using blue version, have you thought about using trinket mage to tutor for chalices/basilisk collar/tormod's crypt/needle?

[Chronatog]

R6: Merfolk - Loss
R11: Merfolk - Loss
- Damage from Dismembers and Ancient Tombs are real. True Name Nemesis is tough to beat

Can you please tell a bit more about these matchups? Why did you lose and why did they win?

[cddungan]

Can you please tell a bit more about these matchups? Why did you lose and why did they win?

On those games, it just happened that my opening lands are Ancient Tombs. Multiple True Name Nemesis can really stop Eldrazi Offense and then suddenly steal your momentum by playing Lords. Aside from that, I believe I lost a game when my Smasher was copied by Phantasmal Image. They will not take out Force of Will; I asked both players why and they said they need to counter my All is Dust which is the best card against them. I was also cursing whenever I use Dismembers as 4 life is really a huge cost.

Well my losses came from these 4 decks:
2 Merfolk, 1 Jund, 1 Death and Taxes

[Eldariel]

@cddungan: That list seems like a very solid shell for a slightly higher curve version. Have you considered/found yourself wanting for a single AID main, over e.g. a Jitte or an Endbringer? With the amount of mana you have thanks to Monoliths being awesome, it seems like you'd want some high-end power cards available - yet, the only real outlet you have is Eye of Ugin.

[benoasan]

@cddungan: Your list is very interesting (and I will test it for sure) but... what happens if a monolith is counter? Did it often happen, in that case multiple sower and endbringer (6 cards) will be dead cards (very difficult to cast)?

[cddungan]

@cddungan: That list seems like a very solid shell for a slightly higher curve version. Have you considered/found yourself wanting for a single AID main, over e.g. a Jitte or an Endbringer? With the amount of mana you have thanks to Monoliths being awesome, it seems like you'd want some high-end power cards available - yet, the only real outlet you have is Eye of Ugin.

Not really, having Jitte is a mandatory for a deck that has a bad matchup against Death and Taxes and for life recoup. Lifeloss from Ancient Tomb and Dismembers are not to be taken lightly. Endbringers, on the other hand, are your only outs maindeck against Show and Tell and Reanimators. If ever I would consider squeezing in an All is Dust, I would probably take out 1 Oblivion Sower, but that depends metagame wise. If True Name Nemesis is popular on your local metagame, AID maindeck is a good thing.

@benoasan: So far, I haven't experienced a matchup where my monoliths got countered. Most of the time, they will wait for the spells that you would cast with the mana. If ever they counter the Monolith, then that is good. It just means you got a better chance of resolving your better spell (TKS/Chalice) on the next turn.

[Troll_ov_Grimness]

I want opinions on this list,

25 Land

1 Urborg, Tomb Of Yawgmoth
4 City Of Traitors
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Caves Of Koilos
4 Wasteland
4 Eye Of Ugin
4 Eldrazi Temple

22 Creatures

4 Bearer Of Silence
4 Eldrazi Mimic
4 Reality Smasher
4 Thought-knot Seer
4 Eldrazi Displacer
2 Endbringer

4 Chalice Of The Void
4 Toxic Deluge
4 Mox Diamond
1 Umezawa's Jitte

Do I have enough coloured mana to cast my spells?

[contra]

Placed 3rd winning $125 store credit at this EE event:
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?31247-Philadelphia-EE-1K-Satellite-at-Stomping-Grounds-Games-And-Hobbies-Jan-28-2017
With this list:

// 60 Maindeck
// 6 Artifact
4 Chalice of the Void
2 Umezawa's Jitte

// 25 Creature
4 Eldrazi Mimic
4 Endless One
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
1 Endbringer
2 Oblivion Sower
3 Matter Reshaper
2 Simian Spirit Guide
1 Phyrexian Revoker

// 4 Instant
2 Warping Wail
2 Dismember

// 25 Land
4 Ancient Tomb
3 City of Traitors
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Eye of Ugin
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Wasteland
2 Mishra's Factory

// 15 Sideboard
// 6 Artifact
SB: 2 Ratchet Bomb
SB: 2 Pithing Needle
SB: 2 Trinisphere

// 1 Creature
SB: 1 Faerie Macabre

// 4 Enchantment
SB: 4 Leyline of the Void

// 2 Land
SB: 2 Karakas

// 2 Sorcery
SB: 2 All Is Dust


BUG Delver (2-0)
This matchup is great for me and I was happy to see it. I curved nicely into mimic-TKS-smasher and easily took G1. G2 he gets a Lilianna, deathrite, and goyf into play, but I needle his deathrite and proceed to smash face.

Infect (2-1)
On the play - turn 1 chalice turn 2 TKS GG. G2 I wail my opponents T1 glistner, but should have saved it for his t2 and t3 invigorated Blighted Agents. G3 I keep a hand with 2 needles, revoker, dismember and some sols. The key moment of the game was when I - in response to a kicked vines targeting his elf - cast dismember. De dazed dismember and I was able to pay with SSG and swing in next turn with smasher

Predict Miracles (2-0)
On the play – mimic TKS Smasher. He had this artifact that let him look at some cards… seems bad. G2 was a 20-minute grind fest where he was left with less than 15 cards in his deck. The first all is Dust buried a jace and 3 angle tokens, the second buried 5 angle tokens and a clique. I win with 2 life.

RW Painter’s Servant (2-0)
Very nice guy, also undefeated. We know what each other are on and agree he’s very favored. I’m on the draw and keep a seven with creatures I can cast under a blood moon (half my deck). He never sees a magus or a moon and I TKS an ensnaring bridge and smash face. G2 I see my lands get pyroblased and transformed into mountains, but ultimately I had a pithing needle and revoker on stone, a chalice on 1 and 0, and creatures that are able to attack under bridge.

Round 5 I intentionally draw into 1st seed. The top eight was my buddy on DnT, two Shardless, Grindstone, UX? Eldrazi, and two BUG (neither had fatal push!) I didn’t like my matchups and we all agreed to split the $1000 store credit. We still played top 8 to determine who gets the EE points good for BYES in local tournaments.

Death and Taxes (2-0)
Guy I drove with. He’s running pretty much the exact 75 I have. I promptly steamroll him with mimic TKS smasher both games. Those the beats friend.

Shardless BUG (1-2)
G1 Hymn, wasteland and a pair of goyfs do me in. G2 Recurring theme - smash to the face. Game 3 – See Game 1

I would have gotten $150 store credit at 3rd, but splitting ended up working out because my pal on DnT would have only gotten $60 and he hooked me up with some goods to compensate! Picked up a set of Thorns and some other cards and left happy.

I think once fatal push becomes more prevalent this deck will RIP. Catch meover in the new and developmental decks forum championing Eldrazi and Taxes!

[Serapha]

@ cddungan

Interesting list. I am not quite ready to go down that road yet myself. Keep us posted with your results!


@ contra


I think once fatal push becomes more prevalent this deck will RIP. Catch meover in the new and developmental decks forum championing Eldrazi and Taxes!

I doubt Fatal Push will be much more than a better Disfigure and a 1- or 2-off in sideboards. So I dont really see the problem but please elaborate on that. And if Fatal Push should be the reason for Eldrazi dying.. shouldn't it hurt Eldrazi and Taxes even more?

[contra]

@ cddungan
I doubt Fatal Push will be much more than a better Disfigure and a 1- or 2-off in sideboards. So I dont really see the problem but please elaborate on that. And if Fatal Push should be the reason for Eldrazi dying.. shouldn't it hurt Eldrazi and Taxes even more?

while the comparison to disfigured is tempting, it really isn't apt. Push kills tks (conditionally), mimic, and endless one (always). While its not super nasty against eldrazi, it has more than enough targets in the rest of legacy (things disfigure can't kill: goyf, knight otr, leovold, Serra avenger) making it a 2-3 maindeckable card - especially next to snapcaster. This makes the deck weaker in those matchups (which also run decay for our chalice on 1)

Push is also good against eldrazi and taxes, but less so because of displacer, Thalia, and the already optimized matchup against BUG decks - goyfs and discard beats just aren't as effective. Not to mention fetchlands coming into play tapped bc of THC prevents the revolt mechanic if only for a turn.

[Karhumies]

With BUG & TNN gaining more popularity, should we start considering running 2x Engineered Plague in the SB? It could be castable from 2x Urborg (and potentially petals) even without running any B pain lands?

Rogue / Merfolk - TNN BUG
Bird - Shardless BUG / Baleful Strix
Human(?) - Death & Taxes
Beast - Cavern Harpy / Aluren
Elf - obvious
Any other creature types worth mentioning in the current metagame?

Example deck list:
http://www.mtgstocks.com/decks/123413

[l33twash0r]

With BUG & TNN gaining more popularity, should we start considering running 2x Engineered Plague in the SB? It could be castable from 2x Urborg (and potentially petals) even without running any B pain lands?

Rogue / Merfolk - TNN BUG
Bird - Shardless BUG / Baleful Strix
Human(?) - Death & Taxes
Beast - Cavern Harpy / Aluren
Elf - obvious
Any other creature types worth mentioning in the current metagame?

Example deck list:
http://www.mtgstocks.com/decks/123413

Why there is Emrakul in your sideboard?

[ESG]

I want opinions on this list,

25 Land

1 Urborg, Tomb Of Yawgmoth
4 City Of Traitors
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Caves Of Koilos
4 Wasteland
4 Eye Of Ugin
4 Eldrazi Temple

22 Creatures

4 Bearer Of Silence
4 Eldrazi Mimic
4 Reality Smasher
4 Thought-knot Seer
4 Eldrazi Displacer
2 Endbringer

4 Chalice Of The Void
4 Toxic Deluge
4 Mox Diamond
1 Umezawa's Jitte

Do I have enough coloured mana to cast my spells?

Depends how good you are at drawing Mox Diamond and how often you expect to play against Wasteland. Personally, I would add two more black sources, at minimum. I also would favor Cavern of Souls over the Wastelands. How have you been liking Bearer of Silence?

[Karhumies]

Why there is Emrakul in your sideboard?

Not my list, just something I found on the internet.

Probably a narrow side slot vs. Painter and SnT decks.

[BeTeP]

In many SB i see 4 Leyline of the Void and 3 Helm of Obedience. The plan about leylines is clear, but for what matchups we want Helm of Obedience? Sneak? Or what else? Could you explain it to me please?

[Airwave]

In many SB i see 4 Leyline of the Void and 3 Helm of Obedience. The plan about leylines is clear, but for what matchups we want Helm of Obedience? Sneak? Or what else? Could you explain it to me please?

A single activation of Helm with Leyline in play exiles the opponents library... :smile:

[BeTeP]

A single activation of Helm with Leyline in play exiles the opponents library... :smile:

Sure, i know that, but thanks =)
What i want to know - in what matchups we need that combo. I think that it can improve sneak matchup, but maybe it have other porposes that i cannot see?

[Whitefaces]

Sure, i know that, but thanks =)
What i want to know - in what matchups we need that combo. I think that it can improve sneak matchup, but maybe it have other porposes that i cannot see?

Probably every time you bring in the Leylines. I don't think it's a very good plan, for what it's worth.

[kinda]

Probably every time you bring in the Leylines. I don't think it's a very good plan, for what it's worth.

When you are running the best combo in magic who needs tutors, draw fixing, or black mana sources?

[kinda]

With BUG & TNN gaining more popularity, should we start considering running 2x Engineered Plague in the SB? It could be castable from 2x Urborg (and potentially petals) even without running any B pain lands?

Rogue / Merfolk - TNN BUG
Bird - Shardless BUG / Baleful Strix
Human(?) - Death & Taxes
Beast - Cavern Harpy / Aluren
Elf - obvious
Any other creature types worth mentioning in the current metagame?

Example deck list:
http://www.mtgstocks.com/decks/123413

Monk- Miracles
Goblin - Goblins/Belcher/TES
Human-Grixis delver
W/e - infect
Cleric - Tin fins
Eldrazi - Eldrazi
Merfolk - Merfolk

[Troll_ov_Grimness]

Have any of you tried Tangle Wire ? Did you like it?

[razvan]

Sadly, it feels like Eldrazi is taking a beating lately. I can't seem to win a single round. I keep having 1-3 showings at weekly events.

I think people have adjusted to the fear factor this deck brought and it just seems to die.

That and I cannot draw TKS's or Eldrazi Temples to save my life.

[potatodavid]

I have a decent amount of success still with the deck. I have shifted to using 1 mainboard Endbring and 1 Oblivion Sower.

I went 3-2 at my last big legacy and missed top 8 because of one of my breakers. But! Deck's not bad by any means. Just there isn't a ton of combo out there now for it to shit on.

[Serapha]

Had a 4-1 and 5-0 at my local game store in January with the following list:

Land (24)
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Eye of Ugin
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Wasteland
2 City of Traitors
1 Wastes
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth

Artifact (6)
4 Chalice of the Void
2 Umezawa's Jitte

Creature (26)
4 Eldrazi Mimic
4 Endless One
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
4 Matter Reshaper
3 Simian Spirit Guide
3 Phyrexian Metamorph

Sorcery/Instant (4)
2 All is Dust
2 Dismember

Sideboard (15)
4 Thorn of Amethyst
4 Leyline of the Void
2 Warping Wail
2 Oblivion Sower
2 Ratchet Bomb
1 Karakas

Been lucky with draws and matches but overall the list felt pretty solid. The meta is very random and normally has around 25-30 people. Fatal Push hasn't punished me yet!

[niv]

Had a 4-1 and 5-0 at my local game store in January with the following list:

Land (24)
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Eye of Ugin
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Wasteland
2 City of Traitors
1 Wastes
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth

Artifact (6)
4 Chalice of the Void
2 Umezawa's Jitte

Creature (26)
4 Eldrazi Mimic
4 Endless One
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
4 Matter Reshaper
3 Simian Spirit Guide
3 Phyrexian Metamorph

Sorcery/Instant (4)
2 All is Dust
2 Dismember

Sideboard (15)
4 Thorn of Amethyst
4 Leyline of the Void
2 Warping Wail
2 Oblivion Sower
2 Ratchet Bomb
1 Karakas

Been lucky with draws and matches but overall the list felt pretty solid. The meta is very random and normally has around 25-30 people. Fatal Push hasn't punished me yet!

I'm currently running the same list with the following changes
+1 Karakas
+2 Endbringer
-1 Phyrexian Metamorph
-2 All Is Dust

Board:
-2 Sower
+2 Pithing Needle

How do you like the Metamorphs? I never felt like they were all that great in my testing. It's great to copy a TKS or Smasher but they really felt win-more to me sometimes (Though, if I were to try and replace them, I'm not sure what I would test in their stead)

I wanted to squeeze some Sowers in my MB/SB somewhere, too (maybe a 1/1 Endbringer/Sower split) but I like the needles too much in the SB to take them out. Not really sure how I feel about EB yet, I might just cut them for Sower.

[benoasan]

It's probably a wrong idea but did any of you think about walking ballista? Not more than 2 copies MD.

[Quasim0ff]

Hey,

I've gotten quite bored with the current decks I play, and eldrazi has sparked my interest because of the sequening required to be successful, as well as all the interesting lines of play you can take from the game starts, but I'm afraid I would fall too far behind in the mirror, due to not being familiar with the matchup.

So, how does the eldrazi mirror play out?

[lordofthepit]

Hey,

I've gotten quite bored with the current decks I play, and eldrazi has sparked my interest because of the sequening required to be successful, as well as all the interesting lines of play you can take from the game starts, but I'm afraid I would fall too far behind in the mirror, due to not being familiar with the matchup.

So, how does the eldrazi mirror play out?

WTF, you're joining the dark side? You're dead to me.

Edit: to answer your question


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nho1C5mefoA&feature=youtu.be

[Serapha]

How do you like the Metamorphs? I never felt like they were all that great in my testing. It's great to copy a TKS or Smasher but they really felt win-more to me sometimes (Though, if I were to try and replace them, I'm not sure what I would test in their stead)


The Metamorphs have served me well. TKS and Smasher are great to copy (most of my matches it has been a TKS though). I haven't had the pleasure to copy something amazing from my opponent yet. In the ANT matchup it is a great extra Thorn that isn't taxed by the other Thorn(s). Only once against UR Delver I haven't been able to cast it (scared of PoP and its awkward to cast with Ugin as one of your lands as well as the cost of 2 life).

I think Sower is overall better unless you face a lot of combo in your local meta. I will most likely have Metamorphs as a sideboard card going forward.

[Serapha]

Hey,

I've gotten quite bored with the current decks I play, and eldrazi has sparked my interest because of the sequening required to be successful, as well as all the interesting lines of play you can take from the game starts, but I'm afraid I would fall too far behind in the mirror, due to not being familiar with the matchup.

So, how does the eldrazi mirror play out?

Wastelands, Oblivion Sowers and possibly Jitte will win you the mirror. That said the mirror is a pain to play as it is as random as magic can be (in my experience).

[RhoxWarMonk]

Im surprised no one commented on the 1st place Eldrazi list from SCG Balt with 2 MD AiD. No Leylines in the board either, which is different than the traditional decklists.

http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=111826

Thoughts?

[Cpt-Qc]

WTF, you're joining the dark side? You're dead to me.

Edit: to answer your question


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nho1C5mefoA&feature=youtu.be

This made my day.

[Noloam_]

Hey,

I've gotten quite bored with the current decks I play, and eldrazi has sparked my interest because of the sequening required to be successful, as well as all the interesting lines of play you can take from the game starts, but I'm afraid I would fall too far behind in the mirror, due to not being familiar with the matchup.

So, how does the eldrazi mirror play out?

its a huge coinflip. especially game 1. Lets see who can draw the least chalices....

[Silverflame]

No inovation, but its good to see a top 1 again.

http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=111826

[potatodavid]

No inovation, but its good to see a top 1 again.

http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=111826

Unfortunately, we must bow to our sultai overlords for the time being. Nice to see some success is still out there.

[Traveler]

Unfortunately, we must bow to our sultai overlords for the time being. Nice to see some success is still out there.

I've been playing Eldrazi in some leagues this week, not a lot of Sultai running around. Tons of Storm and Miracles.

5-0'ed today, had a couple 4-1's and a 1-3 too.

I'm thinking the time for an Eldrazi comeback is looking good.

[WizardDeluxe]

Hey all,

Been lurking on this thread for awhile as I put together the pieces of the deck and now I finally got my City of Traitors in. I'm planning on going to GPNJ next weekend and playing in at least one legacy side event and, as a complete noobie to the deck and format, could use some advice. This is what I have been playtesting with lately which seems fairly stock:

4 Endless One
4 Mimic
4 TKS
4 Reality Smasher
2 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Matter Reshaper
2 Endbringer

4 Chalice
2 Jitte

2 Dismember
2 All is Dust
1 Warping Wail

4 Ancient Tomb
3 City of Traitors
3 Mishra's Factory
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Eye of Ugin
3 Cavern of Souls
1 Urborg
3 Wasteland

Sideboard
4 Leyline of the Void
4 Thorn
2 Oblivion Sower
2 Pithing Needle
2 Ratchet Bomb
1 Karakas

I was also hoping someone here might share some insight into the metagame I should expect from a major Northeastern event. My sideboard is not at all set in stone so thoughts on that would be welcome. Also debating whether or not to go with the Endbringers or switch to an Oblivion Sower build. Basically I'm super nervous about playing in my first Legacy event and have no idea what I'm doing haha

Thanks and I look forward to participating in the community going forward!

[keys]

What are people's opinions on All is Dust vs. Ulamog (+Sower)? I've seen both as sideboard options, but not usually together. Dust and Ulamog are both answers, but Ulamog usually needs some additional form of ramp (e.g., Sower) to get him into play. All is Dust is much easier to cast, but has less Oops-I-Win factor.

In today's metagame, which strategy is better? Can bits of either plan fit into the maindeck, or are they best left in the SB? I've seen T8 decks running different variations on this, and am hoping to start a discussion...

A few other stray questions:

Leyline or Faerie Macabre (or both)?

Spatial Contortion? It is good enough?

Simian Spirit Guide? Yes/no?

[benoasan]

What are people's opinions on All is Dust vs. Ulamog (+Sower)? I've seen both as sideboard options, but not usually together. Dust and Ulamog are both answers, but Ulamog usually needs some additional form of ramp (e.g., Sower) to get him into play. All is Dust is much easier to cast, but has less Oops-I-Win factor.

In today's metagame, which strategy is better? Can bits of either plan fit into the maindeck, or are they best left in the SB? I've seen T8 decks running different variations on this, and am hoping to start a discussion...

A few other stray questions:

Leyline or Faerie Macabre (or both)?

Spatial Contortion? It is good enough?

Simian Spirit Guide? Yes/no?

It's just my opinion (I play Eldrazi-displacer build for note).

For AID versus Ulmaog, it depend if you play sower or endbringer. In my deck, I play the second so I have 2 AID SB and no Sower/Ulamog. In addition, I have some enchanteress in my meta so I think AID is better.

I prefer Leyline over Faerie macabre cause it's permanent. But I can understand the problem of mulligan.

For spatial contorsion, I have no room for it and I think that Dismember (can hit germ/batterskull) > Warping wail > Spatial contorsion.

I play the displacer-eldrazi build so I don't have Simian but I pack 2 lotus petal. I was use to play without them first but after tried them, additional free mana is just too powerfull. The major problem of Eldrazi is land disruption and players have learned to play against us. Be able to play our major threat early is just too powerfull. In addition, simian/lotus can help to play the 7 cmc AID.

[Qernavak]

Hello everyone,

I took a short break and played Sneak and Show for a few leagues. When coming back to Eldrazi I couldn't help to think that this archetype needed a paradigm shift, with all the TNN and Mentors blocking ad infinitum. I looked into flying/trample Eldrazi, and also wanted to try out Walking Ballista. Needless to say, after a 4-1, 2x 3-2 and 2x 2-3, today I 5-0'd with this work in progress:

3 Aether Hub
4 Reality Smasher
4 Bearer of Silence
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Eldrazi Mimic
4 Walking Ballista
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Underground River
3 Eye of Ugin
3 Lotus Petal
2 Umezawa's Jitte
4 Eldrazi Temple
2 City of Traitors
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Eldrazi Skyspawner
2 Endbringer
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth

2 Emrakul, the Promised End
3 All Is Dust
2 Pithing Needle
2 Thorn of Amethyst
2 Ratchet Bomb
4 Leyline of the Void

http://imgur.com/a/QAtNd (http://imgur.com/a/QAtNd)

The deck is different, and I'm still trying to workout the sideboard. But, the 3x All is Dust / 2x Emrakul, the Promised End will stay. I am very very impressed with Emrakul. It comes in in those MUs where I bring AiD. Usually AiD gives a 2x discount on Emrakul, while a ballista gives another 2x discount, making it really easy to cast.

So far it has helped me cabal therapy a strix sacrificing a TNN; on another instance, cast Entreat for 0, killed a JTMS by bouncing an angel token, and sending another token to the red zone to be killed by emrakul.

Anyways, hope some of you give it a try and perhaps provide some feedback and improvements.

Thanks!
Q

[grizzlybears]

Hi, everyone , I am new to this thread.

I have a bit doubt about '0 mana acc' choice.
We had 3 variations, mox diamond, lotus petal , and SSG.
Now just SSG prevails.

May I know why the others two are no longer preferred?

Thanks.

[fireiced]

You use the other 2 if you have non red/green splashes such as Displacer or Strangler.

ESG SSG also has the option of being uncounterable, makes Daze very sad and does not grow opposing Goyfs which are one of the few creatures large enough to block Eldrazi

[Qernavak]

Well, another consecutive 5-0'd with the Dimir Eldrazi. Was trying to add Warping Wail, but wasn't sure what to cut, so I took out one Bearer and one Ballista. I also swapped 2 OSower for 2 Endbringers, and added a Crystal Vein to give me a chance of putting lands on the graveyard. This is the list:

2 Aether Hub
4 Reality Smasher
3 Bearer of Silence
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Eldrazi Mimic
3 Walking Ballista
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Underground River
3 Eye of Ugin
3 Lotus Petal
2 Umezawa's Jitte
4 Eldrazi Temple
2 City of Traitors
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Eldrazi Skyspawner
2 Oblivion Sower
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Crystal Vein
2 Warping Wail

2 Emrakul, the Promised End
3 All Is Dust
2 Pithing Needle
2 Thorn of Amethyst
2 Ratchet Bomb
4 Leyline of the Void


Cheers,
Q

[Artemis]

Well, another consecutive 5-0'd with the Dimir Eldrazi. Was trying to add Warping Wail, but wasn't sure what to cut, so I took out one Bearer and one Ballista. I also swapped 2 OSower for 2 Endbringers, and added a Crystal Vein to give me a chance of putting lands on the graveyard. This is the list:

2 Aether Hub
4 Reality Smasher
3 Bearer of Silence
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Eldrazi Mimic
3 Walking Ballista
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Underground River
3 Eye of Ugin
3 Lotus Petal
2 Umezawa's Jitte
4 Eldrazi Temple
2 City of Traitors
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Eldrazi Skyspawner
2 Oblivion Sower
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Crystal Vein
2 Warping Wail

2 Emrakul, the Promised End
3 All Is Dust
2 Pithing Needle
2 Thorn of Amethyst
2 Ratchet Bomb
4 Leyline of the Void


Cheers,
Q

I really like your list, I'm a starting Eldrazi player and was looking to play something like this, I have few questions.

How is the deck compared to the common eldrazi list? I mean, how do the flying/removal strategy work out, are Bearer of Silence and Ballista enough?

What do you think about Corrupted Crossroads in place of Aether Hub? you don't have non-devoid coloured spells to play, and with Crossroads you can use colored mana many times. Is that 1 life loss so crucial?

Do you think that Phyrexian Revoker could be a replace for Eldrazi Mimic? I don't love the card, I know it's strong with Seer and Smasher but without Endless One and other bigger eldrazi I think it might not be "super good".

Thank you, sorry for my english...

[Qernavak]

I really like your list, I'm a starting Eldrazi player and was looking to play something like this, I have few questions.

How is the deck compared to the common eldrazi list? I mean, how do the flying/removal strategy work out, are Bearer of Silence and Ballista enough?

What do you think about Corrupted Crossroads in place of Aether Hub? you don't have non-devoid coloured spells to play, and with Crossroads you can use colored mana many times. Is that 1 life loss so crucial?

Do you think that Phyrexian Revoker could be a replace for Eldrazi Mimic? I don't love the card, I know it's strong with Seer and Smasher but without Endless One and other bigger eldrazi I think it might not be "super good".

Thank you, sorry for my english...

This deck is slower than the typical Colorless Eldrazi Stompy but it compensates by having more reach in the form of evasion and being able of deal direct damage. I'm not ready to say one is better than the other, but I can give you examples where I felt the Dimir version had advantages.


One example, I was playing against Maverick, and he had deployed about 4 small creatures and put me at some low life. I have a Skyspawner and a Token; then I drop a Smasher and hope to stall. We both keep dropping creatures and w. Then I start dropping Bearers and trimming his creature count. At some point I am able to swing for 2 on the air. He now realizes that in a few turns I will be able to swing for lethal, but there's nothing he can do, so he swings with a few creatures and we start trading. Eventually I also drop a Ballista with 2 counters, enough to remove 2 of his blockers and that's the game. I had very similar situations vs. D&T with he colorless version, and is the complete opposite where I'm stalled on the ground and they are able to swing on the air.

Another example. Yesterday I played vs. Hex Depths. A typical Eldrazi list would rely on Wasteland to beat this deck; in my experience with typical Eldrazi, this match up is slightly unfavorable. However, in my case, Bearer was the MVP. My opponent duress'd me and saw the Bearer in my hand, so he wasn't trying to make a Marit Lage as a blocker because I would edict it. So I would need to leave a Skyspawner as a blocker and swing with whatever creatures on the floor. I did lose game 2 because I didn't realize Bearer can't block, but otherwise this match up felt like I couldn't lose.


I think you can replace Aether Hub with Corrupted Crossroads. The situations where I had spent my Hub color and needed it vs. when I needed to preserve 1 life were about 2 or 3, in about 30 matches (> 60 games). I will test Crossroads in my next leagues.

Do NOT replace Mimic with Revoker. Mimic is your pseudo 1-drop allowing to have a smooth curve. Also, this deck is able to winning many games thanks to a Mimic powered by a TKS or Smasher.



It's still to early to say how good the deck is and whether is sustainable. I will keep you updated.

Cheers,
Q

[Karhumies]

Do NOT replace Mimic with Revoker.

Seconded. We can sometimes get crazy hands like T1 Eye of Ugin, Mimic, Mimic, Mimic into T2 fatty into T3 fatty, which would do absolutely nothing if those Mimics were Revokers instead. Additionally, if you win the coin flip, T1 Ancient Tomb/Eldrazi Temple/Eye of Ugin into Mimic is a "safe play" even when you have no idea about your opponent's deck. Compare this with T1 Ancient Tomb into Phyrexian Revoker, name something random without knowing the opponent's deck -> miss horribly.

[Traveler]

5-0'ed both leagues I played this weekend.

Saturday League
2-0 Miracles
2-0 D&T
2-1 Belcher
2-0 UR Delver
2-0 Shardless BUG

Sunday League
2-0 Eldrazi
2-0 BUG Delver
2-0 Dredge
2-0 Elves
2-1 Eldrazi

At least with the online meta being so Miracles and Storm heavy, as well as Goyf/Strix usage declining, Eldrazi feels like it can put up results again.

[Qernavak]

Just realized the U/B Eldrazi was featured by Efro on CFB:

http://www.channelfireball.com/articles/deck-of-the-day-ub-eldrazi-legacy/

By the way, this is the better build so far, except the Aether Hub should be Corrupted Crossroads

Q

[ChrisDissent]

Really interesting build Qernavak !

I was just wondering : how do you deal with Blood Moon/Back to Basics, which appears to me as the main problem I usually face ?
And second question : with the rise of BUG decks around, how's the MU for you ?

[benoasan]

I was just wondering : how do you deal with Blood Moon/Back to Basics, which appears to me as the main problem I usually face ?

I think his deck is better against blood moon cause he can still cast Skyspawner (thank to lotus petal) and recover one Scion for colorless mana.

[Qernavak]

Really interesting build Qernavak !

I was just wondering : how do you deal with Blood Moon/Back to Basics, which appears to me as the main problem I usually face ?
And second question : with the rise of BUG decks around, how's the MU for you ?

Blood Moon/Back to Basics: As benoasan said, it struggles almost as much as the colorless version, except you have these corner case outs. But mostly I rely on Ratchet Bomb; All is Dust can be deployed through BM, which I have done a few times. B2Bs is a lot more problematic; I usually try to play around it. But in all fairness, Miracles continues to be one of my best matchups, so there's that.

BUG decks: In my experience, I tend to have a favorable MU vs. Shardless BUG with the Coloress version (63% win rate); I have one my only game vs. it while piloting the U/B version (I won).

I have had a few more games vs. BUG delver, and I feel it has been an improvement over my 50% win rate when piloting the Colorless version. I will need to compile the data to get more accurate numbers.

[benoasan]

Qernavak, do you have updated your list (I have a question especially about 3 or 4 ballista and in or out Warping wail)? May you post the current one?

I will bring it in a small tournament soon!

[ChrisDissent]

Thanks for the explanation ! It makes sense.
Did a little testing (-4 Ballista +2 Wail +2 Dismember), and between the two new bad boys, Skyspawner is the one that really shines for me. It flies, it dodges Liliana, it blocks Delvers, it ramps into bigger buddies (and Emrakul/All is Dust SB), it gives an out vs Blood Moon, etc.
It mitigates the (little) loss of explosiveness (T2 double Reshaper is a thing - and in order to play Skyspawner T2, you're less likely able to play T3 Smasher sometimes).

As for Ballista, without any test, I found it really hard to make the most of it with Ugin/Temple, as it doesn't benefit from eldrazi mana.
What goal/targets is it aimed for mainly ?

Anyway, nice work Qernavak and congratz for the results !

[keys]

Playing a small tournament this week. Expecting a LOT of Delver (c.30%) and Death & Taxes/Maverick (25%), with some Reanimator/S&T/ANT combo as well.

What do you guys think of this list for my expected meta?

4 Endless One
4 Eldrazi Mimic
4 Matter Reshaper
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
2 Endbringer
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Thorn of Amethyst
2 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Warping Wail
2 Dismember

4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Eye of Ugin
4 Ancient Tomb
3 City of Traitors
3 Cavern of Souls
3 Wasteland
3 Mishra's Factory
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth

Sideboard:
1 Thorn of Amethyst (Delver, Miracles, combo/burn)
1 Surgical Extraction (expecting some Reanimator and Loam decks)
3 Faerie Macabre (Ditto)
2 Pithing Needle (D&T and Miracles)
2 Ratchet Bomb (TNN & D&T)
2 All is Dust (TNN)
2 Spatial Contortion (expecting lots of Delver/aggro)
1 Dismember (Angler/KoTR)
1 Warping Wail

Pretty stock but heavy on the SB removal. Don't really want to reinvent the wheel. If I was going to go in a different direction, I would do White Eldrazi, but I think colorless is better for this meta. Would be nice to fit a Karakas against all the D&T/Reanimator/S&T, but I'm not sure if it's worth it. Maybe instead of a Factory?

Also, does anyone have a good sideboarding plan?

[pateuglow]

Also, does anyone have a good sideboarding plan?

_noloam did a great Eldrazi SB guide on page 87 (?)

[Qernavak]

Qernavak, do you have updated your list (I have a question especially about 3 or 4 ballista and in or out Warping wail)? May you post the current one?

I will bring it in a small tournament soon!

I am now rebenchmarking with the 1st list presented. Only changes are the mana base:


4 Walking Ballista
4 Eldrazi Skyspawner
4 Bearer of Silence
4 Eldrazi Mimic
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
2 Endbringer

3 Lotus Petal
2 Umezawa's Jitte
4 Chalice of the Void

4 Underground River
2 Corrupted Crossroads
1 Crystal Vein
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Eldrazi Temple
2 City of Traitors
3 Eye of Ugin


2 Emrakul, the Promised End
3 All Is Dust
2 Pithing Needle
2 Thorn of Amethyst
2 Ratchet Bomb
4 Leyline of the Void


Quick brief on my findings so far:
Tried cutting 1x Bearer and 1x Ballista to fit Warping Wail: WW felt underwhelming and many times not doing much in my hand. On the other hand, I really missed Ballista. I think is one of the better cards and grossly underrated. Cutting 1x Bearer feels safer, but for now I will go back to 4x until I can justify adding a different 1-of.

Tried 2 Oblivion Sower instead of Endbringer: I am a big fan of OSower in the colorless version, especially against Miracles and Tarmogoyf decks. But in this version, those decks haven't been as challenging. Perhaps if Blood Moon became more prevalent I will cycle back to OSower, but for now I'm switching back to Endbringer. I also tried playing 2x Warping Wail instead of any of these two, but that just grossly reduced the power of the deck, leaving me with underwhelming top decks and options.


@ChrisDissent, I cannot express how much I love Ballista. I literally glued a Mox Diamond to a Sol Ring and can't wait for a walk on the beach to pop it out of a sleeve and ask the big question "would you replace my Endless One in Colorless Eldrazi?" I recognize that Eye of Ugin and Temple don't power it up. But what it's hard to see is that Ballista's job is primarily to: (a) clear the path for other Eldrazi to get through, (b) kill delvers, strix and other pesky creatures, (c) deal the last 1 or 2 points of damage needed to win. Ballista does add more complexity to the deck, and the math of "should I play it this turn or next turn" is a lot more difficult than with Endless One. All in all, I would suggest to give it a shot, and perhaps it will give you a better perspective.

[TLK]

Love the UB list. I have a (maybe stupid) question:

Does Eldrazi Temple help you cast the Bearer of Silence sac a dude cost? Obviously, Temple gives you at least 1 mana, but does it pay for the whole thing?

[Qernavak]

Love the UB list. I have a (maybe stupid) question:

Does Eldrazi Temple help you cast the Bearer of Silence sac a dude cost? Obviously, Temple gives you at least 1 mana, but does it pay for the whole thing?

Not stupid at all! I had the same question. Temple only pays the extra mana for activated abilities; Bearer's ability is a triggered ability and will not get to use the extra mana.

[TLK]

OK, that's what I thought. I wanted to double check before I assumed otherwise in an actual event haha.

[keys]

Is Ballista really better than Endless One here? Sure, it gives you some reach and you can pick off small creatures, but EO is always gong to be huge in the same situation and you can still play him early as a Jitte holder or to curve out. Seems just as easy to race a Delver with a 4/4 than shoot it down. Also he plays way better with your lands (obviously).

[Qernavak]

Is Ballista really better than Endless One here? Sure, it gives you some reach and you can pick off small creatures, but EO is always gong to be huge in the same situation and you can still play him early as a Jitte holder or to curve out. Seems just as easy to race a Delver with a 4/4 than shoot it down. Also he plays way better with your lands (obviously).

I agree with you, on paper EO has better synergy with the lands and makes the deck much faster.

And so the short and lazy answer is... depends on your metagame. When you have a field crowded with Swords to Plowshares and Fatal Push, there's the same chance of getting either your EO or WB killed. If you add Baleful Strix, TNN, Young Pyromancer, Monastery Mentor... then WB looks a lot better. The online metagame, on the time zone I play, is saturated with the above creatures, and probably can explain a little bit why I decided to take a different direction.

[dcal1985]

This is too good (lucky) to not share.

https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2881/33535489305_4bef158737_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/T6q9Bt)Luckiest Play Ever (https://flic.kr/p/T6q9Bt) by Deane Calcagni (https://www.flickr.com/photos/70708472@N00/), on Flickr

[Whitefaces]

Did you make an account just to post that?

[dcal1985]

Did you make an account just to post that?

No, I joined to have an online outlet for my snarky comments... 🙄

But seriously, I just started playing this deck and I'm preparing for the Worcester Open. I thought it might be helpful.

[Qernavak]

Really interesting build Qernavak !

I was just wondering : how do you deal with Blood Moon/Back to Basics, which appears to me as the main problem I usually face ?
And second question : with the rise of BUG decks around, how's the MU for you ?

After some 4-1s, just today I 5-0'd another league. And as promised, compiled my results since I started playing with the list. This includes some very bad lists, some of which included Cairns Wanderer and Sire of Insanity. Anyhow, here's my MUs by archetype

http://i63.tinypic.com/2hci6w8.jpg

Other than miracles and grixis delver, I don't have enough data for providing broader conclusions, but the aggregate is 72.6% win rate! that's so darn good, but I must confess a lot of it has to do with the deck taking people by surprise or oponents making mistakes. However, my intuition tells me that my death and taxes MU has gotten better, my grixis delver feels slightly worse, and my bug MUs have become slightly better.

[Traveler]

Just finished 101 Matches with the deck this month, and capped it off with a perfect 5-0 League (10 game wins, 0 losses).

I saved the results of every match versus each archetype in a spreadsheet.

Here's the link:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1SGIe_yxCVs_rVThXi0p9DUQ-scwE8-GeqpGStx5vjQo/edit?usp=sharing

Here's my version:
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/593831#online
(Currently not running Karakas and instead a single Wastes)

Of note is the winrate versus Miracles... I truly believe that we are the best deck versus Miracles in the current meta.
Especially since most pilots have moved to the Predict/Entreat version which is a better for us than the Mentor version.
Miracles just doesn't stand a chance without much sideboarding for Eldrazi currently (I haven't run into any Moats/Bridges or very many Blood Moons/From the Ashes).

I was also surprised how easy the D&T matches felt, they don't run many cards that matter other than Swords/Batterskull. So as long as we can keep our mana high we overrun them before they can set up a decent Batterskull board.

Elves felt very difficult to win, even with Chalice. They often are able to fetch Arbor into Cradle into GSZ/Natural Order to get around in the games we have it. Or if we don't they're simply faster than we are.
S&S predictably was also a bad matchup, especially since I biased my build to be good against fair decks/Delver with very little S&S relevant cards (In the past I've run Confusion and Karakas when S&S was more prevalent)

Overall the deck has felt strong and consistent, with a 68% winrate, providing five 5-0's, four 4-1's, and very few non-cashes (only 4) out of 21 leagues. EV for the month was about +300 tickets and some playpoints.

I probably could have played better in some matches, where I've definitely lost some games to loose play or misclicks playing while tired or late at night.

Anyways, keep on Smashing friends!

[dcal1985]

Those are some really impressive results! It feels really good to play a deck that crushes Miracles.

Do you have any thoughts or insights in terms of cards that over or under performed?

What has your plan for Delver, especially BUG? Your win rate against them is great and I haven't found it to be that match up to be amazing.

[Traveler]

Those are some really impressive results! It feels really good to play a deck that crushes Miracles.

Do you have any thoughts or insights in terms of cards that over or under performed?

What has your plan for Delver, especially BUG? Your win rate against them is great and I haven't found it to be that match up to be amazing.

Well, other than the obvious stars of Mimic, TKS, Smasher... I've been impressed by the pressure Endless One on 2 off Eye puts out. Just putting down 4 power early on the board has been enough to pressure out plenty of opponents.
Also Oblivion Sower has been great in fair matchups. It's bigger than Goyf/Angler, eats cards off the top of Miracles decks, and puts lands in play to use for activating eye.

Under performed: I haven't liked Warping Wail when I was testing it. But I think if I wanted to play it I would instead play more Cities and less Spirit Guides. Two real mana is a lot to hold up for sorceries and it is tempo negative to remove most creatures that you can commonly hit with it.
I'm also not sold on Urborg all the time. Sometimes it provides us an extra mana with Eye and allows us to tap Tombs without paying life. And sometimes it doesn't cast colorless mana for TKS and Smasher.

My plan for Delver is different for Grixis and BUG

Against Grixis I just want to get power on the board as fast as possible and try take Anglers with TKS. If I can get two creatures into play turn 1 off Eye, instead of holding Endless for more power, I will. Having them try to play the wasteland game while you're beating them for 4 a turn just wins you a lot of races. Honestly its mostly about committing to always trying to be in a position where they have to play defense instead of being able to attack you.

Against BUG its been about going bigger with Sower. If you can get a fast start great! Otherwise try to stall the board out and get to the late game where they are drawing dead forces/Dazes/Hymns and you are able to build enough power on the board to go wide around Goyf.

Against both matchups its key to keep hands that don't just lose to wasteland. No matter how juicy that 1 land chalice hand looks.

Honestly with only 4 matches against each its entirely possible I simply wound up on the good side of variance.

[benjiman13]

I have some difficulties to beat D&T.
The turn 2 stoneforge into T3 Batterskull is almost unbeatable (except with TKS)

How do you guys sideboard against them?

[dcal1985]

Well, other than the obvious stars of Mimic, TKS, Smasher... I've been impressed by the pressure Endless One on 2 off Eye puts out. Just putting down 4 power early on the board has been enough to pressure out plenty of opponents.
Also Oblivion Sower has been great in fair matchups. It's bigger than Goyf/Angler, eats cards off the top of Miracles decks, and puts lands in play to use for activating eye.

Under performed: I haven't liked Warping Wail when I was testing it. But I think if I wanted to play it I would instead play more Cities and less Spirit Guides. Two real mana is a lot to hold up for sorceries and it is tempo negative to remove most creatures that you can commonly hit with it.
I'm also not sold on Urborg all the time. Sometimes it provides us an extra mana with Eye and allows us to tap Tombs without paying life. And sometimes it doesn't cast colorless mana for TKS and Smasher.

My plan for Delver is different for Grixis and BUG

Against Grixis I just want to get power on the board as fast as possible and try take Anglers with TKS. If I can get two creatures into play turn 1 off Eye, instead of holding Endless for more power, I will. Having them try to play the wasteland game while you're beating them for 4 a turn just wins you a lot of races. Honestly its mostly about committing to always trying to be in a position where they have to play defense instead of being able to attack you.

Against BUG its been about going bigger with Sower. If you can get a fast start great! Otherwise try to stall the board out and get to the late game where they are drawing dead forces/Dazes/Hymns and you are able to build enough power on the board to go wide around Goyf.

Against both matchups its key to keep hands that don't just lose to wasteland. No matter how juicy that 1 land chalice hand looks.

Honestly with only 4 matches against each its entirely possible I simply wound up on the good side of variance.

Thanks for your reply. I think I was trying to race BUG too often and doing exactly what you called out in terms of keeping hands that lose to Wasteland. I ran through a couple of leagues and beat them both times I played them just being more aware of that.

[dcal1985]

I have some difficulties to beat D&T.
The turn 2 stoneforge into T3 Batterskull is almost unbeatable (except with TKS)

How do you guys sideboard against them?

I've had an OK time with D&T but it's definitely a tricky matchup. I side out 4 Chalice both on the play and draw because after board they will only have Aether Vial and Swords at 1 CMC. Lately I've been bringing in 2 Spatial Contortion and 2 Pithing Needle. Spatial Contortion hits literally all of their guys without equipment and Pithing Needle shuts down Aether Vial, Stoneforge, Port, Wasteland, and any of their equipment. Main deck I have 2 Warping Wail, which hits most of their guys including an early Stoneforge, and 2 Dismember.

I'd be curious to see how other people approach it though.

[Traveler]

I've had an OK time with D&T but it's definitely a tricky matchup. I side out 4 Chalice both on the play and draw because after board they will only have Aether Vial and Swords at 1 CMC. Lately I've been bringing in 2 Spatial Contortion and 2 Pithing Needle. Spatial Contortion hits literally all of their guys without equipment and Pithing Needle shuts down Aether Vial, Stoneforge, Port, Wasteland, and any of their equipment. Main deck I have 2 Warping Wail, which hits most of their guys including an early Stoneforge, and 2 Dismember.

I'd be curious to see how other people approach it though.

I've mostly been focusing on keeping hands resilient to land destruction.

A lot this matchup is deciding what matters to us from D&T. In my opinion its (in order of danger): Land Destruction, Batterskull, Swords to Plowshares+Path, Flying Attackers.

For Land Destruction we mostly care about only when they have Vial, since we can rebuild faster than they can kill our mana if they don't have vial to back it up. So needle is good here, and so is Bomb.
For Batterskull, we can wait on TKS and take it from their hand if they don't have vial, or take SFM early if they do have vial, or Dismember it. Needle is still good here.
For STP and Path, it's their best way of dealing with our bigger better creatures, so we can consider leaving in Chalice (especially on the play).
Flying attackers we can't do much about, but shutting down vial helps, and Jitte+Endbringer helps.

The rest of their deck we don't care much about.

If they don't have vial we almost certainly win. They can't disrupt our mana enough to simultaneously get ahead on board with their tiny creatures.
If possible try to TKS Batterskull if they play SFM without vial.
If they do have vial it becomes a lot tricker. Especially since Flickerwisp is quite good against Endless and resetting Batterskull.

Sideboarding in the Bombs, Needles, and a land if you have one in the board.
On the play I like Chalice. Turning off both Vial and Swords+Path is a great. It slows them down a lot.
On the draw I'd rather have Mimic.

Sideboarding in the Bombs, Needles, and a land if you have one in the board. Out: 4 Mimic, 1 Chalice on play, 4 Chalice, 1 Mimic on draw.

Reason I'm not a fan of Mimic in this matchup is that it dies to everything.

[Big_jeujeu]

I've just started playing eldrazi online. Currently running this list.

25 LANDS
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Cavern of Souls
3 City of Traitors
3 Crystal Vein
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Eye of Ugin
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Wastes
24 CREATURES
4 Eldrazi Mimic
1 Emrakul, the Promised End
4 Endless One
4 Reality Smasher
3 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Walking Ballista
5 INSTANTS and SORC.
2 All Is Dust
2 Dismember
1 Warping Wail
6 OTHER SPELLS
4 Chalice of the Void
2 Umezawa's Jitte
SIDEBOARD
1 All Is Dust
1 Emrakul, the Promised End
4 Leyline of the Void
2 Pithing Needle
2 Ratchet Bomb
3 Thorn of Amethyst
2 Warping Wail

It's Qernavak's list and he's been doing great with eldrazi. I question the endless ones when there's already walking ballista which I love. Shoots down so many important creatures. Also can be a Mana accelerant for emrakul which is also amazing. So far I'm 2-0. Playing against alluren and grix delver

[t0x1c994]

Hey guys, long time lurker, relatively new Eldrazi player. I'm going to a GPT tomorrow and I'm wondering what you guys think of this list. The store I'm going to I've seen in the past a decent amount of D&T, a small amount of Sneak and Show, and BUG decks (Delver, Shardless, and True-Name)

4x Ancient Tomb
3x Cavern of Souls
4x Chalice of the Void
3x City of Traitors
2x Dismember
4x Eldrazi Mimic
4x Eldrazi Temple
4x Endbringer
2x Endless One
4x Eye of Ugin
1x Karakas
4x Matter Reshaper
2x Mishra's Factory
4x Reality Smasher
2x Simian Spirit Guide
4x Thought-Knot Seer
2x Umezawa's Jitte
1x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
3x Warping Wail
3x Wasteland

Sideboard:
1x All Is Dust
4x Leyline of the Void
1x Oblivion Sower
2x Pithing Needle
2x Ratchet Bomb
2x Spatial Contortion
3x Thorn of Amethyst

Edit: How are we positioned against the 4c Control deck?

[vanquish]

Hey guys, long time lurker, relatively new Eldrazi player. I'm going to a GPT tomorrow and I'm wondering what you guys think of this list. The store I'm going to I've seen in the past a decent amount of D&T, a small amount of Sneak and Show, and BUG decks (Delver, Shardless, and True-Name)

4x Ancient Tomb
3x Cavern of Souls
4x Chalice of the Void
3x City of Traitors
2x Dismember
4x Eldrazi Mimic
4x Eldrazi Temple
4x Endbringer
2x Endless One
4x Eye of Ugin
1x Karakas
4x Matter Reshaper
2x Mishra's Factory
4x Reality Smasher
2x Simian Spirit Guide
4x Thought-Knot Seer
2x Umezawa's Jitte
1x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
3x Warping Wail
3x Wasteland

Sideboard:
1x All Is Dust
4x Leyline of the Void
1x Oblivion Sower
2x Pithing Needle
2x Ratchet Bomb
2x Spatial Contortion
3x Thorn of Amethyst

Edit: How are we positioned against the 4c Control deck?

Hmm, the meta you described sounds very challenging and definitely not eldrazi welcoming. How did it go? was the meta within your expectations?

[t0x1c994]

Hmm, the meta you described sounds very challenging and definitely not eldrazi welcoming. How did it go? was the meta within your expectations?

It definitely wasn't, I ended up going 3-3 at the event and the meta was kind of what I was expecting. I won against Burn, True-Name BUG, and Elves, and lost to Sneak and Show, Death and Taxes, and UR Prowess.

[Traveler]

Well guys, our best matchup just got removed from the format. Likely to be replaced by more BUG and other midrange decks (not to mention blood moon decks / Elves that pop up to punish them).

Here's my spreadsheet results again for all the matches I've played since the I started running the deck through leagues.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1SGIe_yxCVs_rVThXi0p9DUQ-scwE8-GeqpGStx5vjQo/edit?usp=sharing

Wound up with a 67% winrate over 154 matches. Subtracting Miracles matches its only a 63% winrate. And the meta is likely to shift unfavorably for us too.

Anyone have any thoughts on where the deck moves from here?

[Qernavak]

Well guys, our best matchup just got removed from the format. Likely to be replaced by more BUG and other midrange decks (not to mention blood moon decks / Elves that pop up to punish them).

Here's my spreadsheet results again for all the matches I've played since the I started running the deck through leagues.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1SGIe_yxCVs_rVThXi0p9DUQ-scwE8-GeqpGStx5vjQo/edit?usp=sharing

Wound up with a 67% winrate over 154 matches. Subtracting Miracles matches its only a 63% winrate. And the meta is likely to shift unfavorably for us too.

Anyone have any thoughts on where the deck moves from here?

This may sound obvious, but only the old Eldrazi (not equipped to deal with Blood Moon and Show and Tell decks) will be bad. Adjusting for the new meta will be primarily about beating those two strategies.

[Traveler]

This may sound obvious, but only the old Eldrazi (not equipped to deal with Blood Moon and Show and Tell decks) will be bad. Adjusting for the new meta will be primarily about beating those two strategies.

Do we move to UB then? What has your testing looked like if you subtract out Miracles?

I also anticipate an uptick in Delver, Stoneblade, BUG, in addition to Elves/S&S/Moon decks.

I'm not sure if the meta slides in a favorable direction for us. Seems like plenty of people will dust off Goyf now that Terminus isn't sending stuff to the bottom instead of the GY.

[Barook]

This may sound obvious, but only the old Eldrazi (not equipped to deal with Blood Moon and Show and Tell decks) will be bad. Adjusting for the new meta will be primarily about beating those two strategies.
A shift towards Show & Tell would be fantastic since it can be manhandled by the white Displacer build.

I'm more worried about the uptick in BUG, TNN, Blood Moon & SFM decks. Elves will be more popular as well, but the match is so-so.

[Qernavak]

Before jumping into how to best adapt, let’s try a level based analysis to better understand what it is to come. First, let’s be reminded of the triangle of equilibrium: aggro > control > combo > aggro. With Miracles considerably weakened (not dead), the metagame will approach some sort of new equilibrium. Let’s take a look.

Level 1: Miracles gone; is there a blue-based control strategy that can replace it?
Two possible answers:


A. No. The void is filled with current dominant archetypes in proportion to their matchup equilibrium. Another possibility is that miracle players, being spikey, shift to the next best strategy: BUG delver or BUG “control”.

B. Yes. Existing and former blue-based strategies take over as the control strategy. Some candidates are: 4C Control, Jace-CAB, Standstill, UWx Stoneforge, Esper Control. The argument here is that Miracles was pushing out of the meta, other control strategies that are competitive enough but not as effective as Miracles.




Level 2: What decks directly benefit (improve win rate) from Level 1 answers?


A. In general, combo decks. But more specifically, Storm is greatly favored in a counterbalance-free metagame, especially when Miracles was also significantly represented on the floor. Other combo strategies that may see a resurgence are: High Tide, UB Reanimator, Painter, Tin Fins, Big Red. Sneak Attack will likely see a drop off as a result of faster combo being the dominating strategy. Storm >> Show and Tell.

B. If a suitable control replacement quickly becomes ingrained in the meta, then combo likely only shifts to faster strategies, but only marginally increases its presence. Same as above, the “new world” favors fast combo. Still, Storm should become the dominant combo strategy. Eldrazi Stompy also is favored against most of these control strategies except for UWx Stoneforge. When Battleskull becomes a significant part of the metagame, the best move is to shift of main deck Tower of the Magistrate, as it has happened before.


Level 2: What decks directly become worse from Level 1 answers?


A. Uber control strategies: cloudpost-based strategies particularly. Without control, the overall metagame becomes significantly faster and uber control will not catch up; moreover, it loses its natural prey. Version of Eldrazi sporting Oblivion Sower and Grim Monolith may lose some ground from the disappearance of Miracles, but if Blood Moon –based combo or control become dominant, then the loss of strength may be diminished as these two cards can answer moon-based strategies.

B. Not clear that any particular deck becomes worse if another blue based control strategy arises.


Level 3: What would be the best choice for the metagames as envisioned in Levels 1 and 2 analyses.

R. The disappearance of a very effective control strategy favors fast combo. Of all fast combo, Storm is king and will likely soon take over the metagame. When Storm is favored, Eldrazi needs to shift to main deck Thorns or to white splash, potentially maindecking Thalias. However, there’s a risk that the control players shift to existing dominant strategies, multiplying the % of delver and Wastelands. Historically, main deck thorns are still competitive vs. delver strategies, but suboptimal.


Level 3. What does it all mean for Eldrazi?

R. Remove Oblivion Sower, place Thorns in main deck. Up number of Ratchet Bombs to 3 to deal with potential Moons and Delvers at low mana. Run 1 or 2 wastes. Keep copies Tower of the Magistrate handy. Simian Spirit Guide versions should still be the mainstream option. White Eldrazi to be the choice if meta becomes dominated by both Storm and Sneak and Show. UB Eldrazi is favored in Delver-dominant strategies, but it needs to be modified to compete with Sneak and Show. Colorless Ballista Eldrazi is also an option to combat delver strategies. There are a few more Eldrazi strategies that may arise as a result of the metagame, like Jeskai and Boros Eldrazi. Blood Moon was already increasing in popularity, therefore be mindful when choosing a colored Eldrazi choice.




Just remember that Eldrazi is a powerful high variance deck, and as such its strength is in the pre-game strategy and deck building. I will be playing leagues and will try to post progress more often.


Good luck everyone and enjoy this period of exciting changes!

[ChrisDissent]

Wow, what a mess do we have here ! No more Miracles :eek:

Thanks Qernavak for sharing your thoughts, that's clarifying.

To follow up on your words, if Blood Moon.decks become more popular, or if we go down the colored road, have we ever consider running some Ash Barrens (to catch a single Wastes, single Plains maybe if we're on Displacer or Thalia Builds) ?
That would allow us to have some nice sideboard options too.
I ay be totally wrong here, but at least I wanted to share :)

[Qernavak]

Wow, what a mess do we have here ! No more Miracles :eek:

Thanks Qernavak for sharing your thoughts, that's clarifying.

To follow up on your words, if Blood Moon.decks become more popular, or if we go down the colored road, have we ever consider running some Ash Barrens (to catch a single Wastes, single Plains maybe if we're on Displacer or Thalia Builds) ?
That would allow us to have some nice sideboard options too.
I ay be totally wrong here, but at least I wanted to share :)

That's an interesting question. I think I would rather play 3 wastes than 1 wastes and 4 Ash Barren. I would save me the tempo of paying 1 to go search for a wastes. In a white splash version, I would also rather play 3 plains. The 3-of is based on hypergeometric distribution of cards that you want to draw one-of.

[Barook]

Since I've been out of the loop for a while, I've looked up what UB Eldrazi (https://www.channelfireball.com/articles/deck-of-the-day-ub-eldrazi-legacy/) is.

What I don't understand is how the deck is supposed to make good use of Walking Ballista.

[MD.Ghost]

@Qernavak: great post!

My bet would be on Eldrazi&Taxes since i played it a lot and love displacer since i started brewing with Barook in the early eldrazi days. I simply hate to lose against something like Show&Tell and Displacer is a good call against it. I have about 100 testmatchups with Eldrazi & Taxes and various ideas and i think if combo rises it would be the best version because your thorns can beat (Thalia) and you can also operate under wasteland pressure with lower cc across the board.

Overall i also like the UB stuff and tried some UW brews to abuse Skyspawner with Displacer.

So lets see what will rise in a miracle-less meta and how eldrazi can adapt in this new era.

Edit: quick brew about "colorfull eldrazi"^^ based on the UB list linked from Barook

// 60 Maindeck

// 9 Artifact
4 Chalice of the Void
2 Umezawa's Jitte
3 Mox Diamond

// 24 Creature
3 Bearer of Silence
4 Eldrazi Mimic
4 Eldrazi Skyspawner
4 Reality Smasher
4 Thought-Knot Seer
2 Endbringer
3 Eldrazi Displacer

// 2 Instant
2 Warping Wail

// 25 Land
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Cavern of Souls
2 City of Traitors
4 Eldrazi Temple
3 Eye of Ugin
2 Karakas
4 Corrupted Crossroads
2 Aether Hub

// 15 Sideboard
SB: 2 Pithing Needle
SB: 2 Ratchet Bomb
SB: 2 Thorn of Amethyst
SB: 4 Leyline of the Void
SB: 2 Spatial Contortion
SB: 3 All Is Dust

[Qernavak]

Since I've been out of the loop for a while, I've looked up what UB Eldrazi (https://www.channelfireball.com/articles/deck-of-the-day-ub-eldrazi-legacy/) is.

What I don't understand is how the deck is supposed to make good use of Walking Ballista.

Nothing special about the UB version that makes Ballosta any better than it would be in any other Eldrazi shell. That said, the UB version is trying to maximize evasion, which Ballista provides in the form of direct damage.

This version was concocted as a response to the raise of TNN / Baleful Strix strategies.

[Qernavak]

Level 3: What would be the best choice for the metagames as envisioned in Levels 1 and 2 analyses.

R. The disappearance of a very effective control strategy favors fast combo. Of all fast combo, Storm is king and will likely soon take over the metagame. When Storm is favored, Eldrazi needs to shift to main deck Thorns or to white splash, potentially maindecking Thalias. However, there’s a risk that the control players shift to existing dominant strategies, multiplying the % of delver and Wastelands. Historically, main deck thorns are still competitive vs. delver strategies, but suboptimal.



I'm on a work trip, which allows me to play way more Magic that normally (normally 1 league every two days, but this week 2 to 3 leagues a day). I just completed my first 5-0 out of 10 leagues. Let me give a summary of the meta I have faced, anecdotally:

Storm is way over represented. But not only that, it is the fastest versions of storm. I'm talking about Chrome Mox and Rite of Flame. To the point that I faced 7 consecutive Storm opponents (one of them on Doomsday). Typically it would be walk for Eldrazi, but these guys consistently win on game 1 and 2.

Secondly, Grixis Delver is also overly represented. At some point, 5 out of 6 matches were Grixis Delver.

But the rest of the metagame is the wild west. Elves, Reanimator, Big Red, Wr D&T, White Eldrazi, Moon Stompy, Burn, Czech Pile, Hex Depths. I was not surprised to not see Show and Tell because I know they have a bad matchup vs. Storm.

***

For the very first leagues, I tried UB Eldrazi with unsurprisingly disappointing results. I took a few beating before going to Colorless Eldrazi, with which I played around with the mana base and main decks. With such a heavy load of Storm, I now sport 3 Thorns, two in the main and one in the sideboard. I tried 4 on SB and 4 in the MD, and I settle for a compromise.

For those interested, here's the list I'm currently playing:

2 Dismember
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Chalice of the Void
2 City of Traitors
4 Eldrazi Mimic
4 Endless One
4 Eye of Ugin
4 Matter Reshaper
4 Ancient Tomb
2 Walking Ballista
4 Reality Smasher
3 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Thought-Knot Seer
2 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Eldrazi Temple
3 Mishra's Factory
1 Wastes
2 Wasteland
2 Thorn of Amethyst

2 All Is Dust
2 Warping Wail
2 Pithing Needle
4 Leyline of the Void
2 Ratchet Bomb
1 Thorn of Amethyst
2 Walking Ballista

[bruizar]

Had this experiment sleeved up but couldn't go to the tournament at the last minute so I'm sharing it here. The idea is to hate on storm and elves, have game against TNN/SFM/Equipment while being resistant to blood moon. In case it's not apparent. The spheres cancel themselves out with inspiring statuary, so they become assymetrical. Burn and lands are bad matchups. If you can sphere burn out and duress/brutality/warping wail price of progress, then maybe you have a chance but I doubt it.

Inspired Eldrazi

4 Badlands
4 Bloodstained Mire
1 Swamp
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
3 City of Traitors
4 Ancient Tomb
2 Eye of Ugin
3 Eldrazi Temple
3 Inspiring Statuary
2 Urza’s Incubator
4 Lodestone Golem
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Collective Brutality
3 Trinisphere
4 Sphere of Resistance
2 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Karn Liberated
3 Bonfire of the Damned
2 Eldrazi Mimic
4 Reality Smasher
4 Thought-Knot Seer

Sideboard:
1 Contagion Clasp - DNT / Aether Vial / ramps with statuary after effect
1 Blood Moon - Lands, 4c leovold decks
1 All is dust - Jace/TNN/elves/DRS-GSZ decks
2 Oath of Liliana - should be Trial of Ambition - SNT/TNN/Delver
1 Massacre - DNT/TNN/Elves
1 Flaying Tendrils - TNN/DNT/Elves/NicFit
2 Tormod's Crypt - Reanimator
1 Manriki-Gusari - TNN-SFM/DNT - ramps with statuary while being able to equip
1 Collective Brutality - Storm/Elves
1 Duress - Storm/Sneak&Show
2 Warping Wail - Natural Order/Catch all
1 Kolaghan's Command - Artifact removal / Catch-all

The mimics are lousy top-decks but they do help with the clock. Might be better off replacing it for a big pay-off spell like All is Dust / Emrakul 2.0 / Ulamog 2.0

[cab0747]

I'm on a work trip, which allows me to play way more Magic that normally (normally 1 league every two days, but this week 2 to 3 leagues a day). I just completed my first 5-0 out of 10 leagues. Let me give a summary of the meta I have faced, anecdotally:

Storm is way over represented. But not only that, it is the fastest versions of storm. I'm talking about Chrome Mox and Rite of Flame. To the point that I faced 7 consecutive Storm opponents (one of them on Doomsday). Typically it would be walk for Eldrazi, but these guys consistently win on game 1 and 2.

Secondly, Grixis Delver is also overly represented. At some point, 5 out of 6 matches were Grixis Delver.

But the rest of the metagame is the wild west. Elves, Reanimator, Big Red, Wr D&T, White Eldrazi, Moon Stompy, Burn, Czech Pile, Hex Depths. I was not surprised to not see Show and Tell because I know they have a bad matchup vs. Storm.

***

For the very first leagues, I tried UB Eldrazi with unsurprisingly disappointing results. I took a few beating before going to Colorless Eldrazi, with which I played around with the mana base and main decks. With such a heavy load of Storm, I now sport 3 Thorns, two in the main and one in the sideboard. I tried 4 on SB and 4 in the MD, and I settle for a compromise.

For those interested, here's the list I'm currently playing:

2 Dismember
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Chalice of the Void
2 City of Traitors
4 Eldrazi Mimic
4 Endless One
4 Eye of Ugin
4 Matter Reshaper
4 Ancient Tomb
2 Walking Ballista
4 Reality Smasher
3 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Thought-Knot Seer
2 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Eldrazi Temple
3 Mishra's Factory
1 Wastes
2 Wasteland
2 Thorn of Amethyst

2 All Is Dust
2 Warping Wail
2 Pithing Needle
4 Leyline of the Void
2 Ratchet Bomb
1 Thorn of Amethyst
2 Walking Ballista

This looks pretty standard, but is about where I landed when re-tooling the deck for Elves and Storm. Did this list fare any better than the UB list?

I also tossed around the idea of Phyrexian Revoker for Storm.

[Qernavak]

This looks pretty standard, but is about where I landed when re-tooling the deck for Elves and Storm. Did this list fare any better than the UB list?

I also tossed around the idea of Phyrexian Revoker for Storm.

Yes. While the UB list was good enough to consistently perform at 3-2 in leagues, it was just folding to fast combo (Storm and Elves).

But you're right, standard lists -or rather very aggressive configurations- is the way to go.

I like your idea of fitting Phyrexian Revoker. I will take it out for a spin.

[Barook]

Yes. While the UB list was good enough to consistently perform at 3-2 in leagues, it was just folding to fast combo (Storm and Elves).

But you're right, standard lists -or rather very aggressive configurations- is the way to go.

I like your idea of fitting Phyrexian Revoker. I will take it out for a spin.
So how exactly does Eldrazi manage to have problems against Storm? IIRC, it was one of my best match-ups. Edit: Looked it up again - went 10-0 against ANT and 1-0 vs TES with my old White Eldrazi list (https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/416667#online). What the hell are you guys doing? :really:

I'm still pondering what deck to choose to come back playing Legacy. I'm leaning towards a variant of my White Eldrazi list, but I'll first wait and see how the meta shakes out.

The white list is still good enough vs Storm, while also having a very strong game Sneak & Show (which is coming back big time) and some other stuff like UB Reanimator.

Other thoughts on the meta:
- Delver was always a problem, so we need better ways to deal with it.
- TNN is coming back big time (both in BUG variants and Stoneblade), so unless we can add ways to handle it, we're toast.
- Since Elves got alot more relevant, I'd to see ways to improve the match-up (it was somewhat even to very slightly favored IIRC and looking at my old data).
- With Miracles and Shardless BUG disappearing due to other BUG decks, I'm not too sure how necessary Mishra's Factory is, especially with more TNN roadblocks on the way.

My initial plan to adapt my old white deck would be:
- Keep the white splash for Karakas and Displacer.
- Add Bearer of Silence as a way to deal with TNN and having more removal. A shame it can't block Delver.
- Add Walking Ballistas to deal with Elves and Swarm decks.
- Wasteland Strangler might be a good SB card with all DRS shenanigans going on.
- Replace the Factories for more colored lands to support the new W/B plan better.

Not sure what to cut, but I'll figure out that one later.

[Qernavak]

So how exactly does Eldrazi manage to have problems against Storm? IIRC, it was one of my best match-ups. Edit: Looked it up again - went 10-0 against ANT and 1-0 vs TES with my old White Eldrazi list (https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/416667#online). What the hell are you guys doing? :really:

I'm still pondering what deck to choose to come back playing Legacy. I'm leaning towards a variant of my White Eldrazi list, but I'll first wait and see how the meta shakes out.

The white list is still good enough vs Storm, while also having a very strong game Sneak & Show (which is coming back big time) and some other stuff like UB Reanimator.

Other thoughts on the meta:
- Delver was always a problem, so we need better ways to deal with it.
- TNN is coming back big time (both in BUG variants and Stoneblade), so unless we can add ways to handle it, we're toast.
- Since Elves got alot more relevant, I'd to see ways to improve the match-up (it was somewhat even to very slightly favored IIRC and looking at my old data).
- With Miracles and Shardless BUG disappearing due to other BUG decks, I'm not too sure how necessary Mishra's Factory is, especially with more TNN roadblocks on the way.

My initial plan to adapt my old white deck would be:
- Keep the white splash for Karakas and Displacer.
- Add Bearer of Silence as a way to deal with TNN and having more removal. A shame it can't block Delver.
- Add Walking Ballistas to deal with Elves and Swarm decks.
- Wasteland Strangler might be a good SB card with all DRS shenanigans going on.
- Replace the Factories for more colored lands to support the new W/B plan better.

Not sure what to cut, but I'll figure out that one later.

The short answer, without Counterbalance to worry about, Storm has gotten faster and more efficient. They can easily go off on turn 1 or 2. And now they can streamline their sideboard options to Echoing Truth, which can also bounce TKS and Smasher in a pinch. They also play Hurkyl's Recall, answering multiple or combinations of Chalices and Thorns, whereas before it was just abrupt decay.

In addition, now they splash for red and multiply their options by running Rite of Flames and Burning Wish.

Ballista is a great option, but I'm afraid Bearer may be too slow for the current meta.

[Barook]

The short answer, without Counterbalance to worry about, Storm has gotten faster and more efficient. They can easily go off on turn 1 or 2. And now they can streamline their sideboard options to Echoing Truth, which can also bounce TKS and Smasher in a pinch. They also play Hurkyl's Recall, answering multiple or combinations of Chalices and Thorns, whereas before it was just abrupt decay.

In addition, now they splash for red and multiply their options by running Rite of Flames and Burning Wish.

Ballista is a great option, but I'm afraid Bearer may be too slow for the current meta.
Thanks for the explanation. Looking at Bryant Cook's latest list, it makes a ton of sense: https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/632863#online

Bearer could definitely be too slow due to how the mana cost is split (which can't be paid with Temple/Eye). That doesn't change our need for better TNN answers. Looking at our splashable options (that also hit weenie masses), we have:

Holy Light
Engineered Plague
Shrivel
Nausea
Toxic Deluge

Holy Light would probably the most "splashable" one, although I still think it would be really hard to pull off (and it can't hit D&T, although that one could be handled with Ballistas). Other options could be pinpoint solutions like SoFaI, but I doubt that would be too hot vs BUG decks with Abrupt Decay.

Edit: There's also Llawan, Cephalid Empress, although that one is extremely narrow.

[darkgh0st]

So how exactly does Eldrazi manage to have problems against Storm? IIRC, it was one of my best match-ups. Edit:I'm still pondering what deck to choose to come back playing Legacy. I'm leaning towards a variant of my White Eldrazi list, but I'll first wait and see how the meta shakes out.

The white list is still good enough vs Storm, while also having a very strong game Sneak & Show (which is coming back big time) and some other stuff like UB Reanimator.

Other thoughts on the meta:
- Delver was always a problem, so we need better ways to deal with it.
- TNN is coming back big time (both in BUG variants and Stoneblade), so unless we can add ways to handle it, we're toast.
- Since Elves got alot more relevant, I'd to see ways to improve the match-up (it was somewhat even to very slightly favored IIRC and looking at my old data).
- With Miracles and Shardless BUG disappearing due to other BUG decks, I'm not too sure how necessary Mishra's Factory is, especially with more TNN roadblocks on the way.

My initial plan to adapt my old white deck would be:
- Keep the white splash for Karakas and Displacer.
- Add Bearer of Silence as a way to deal with TNN and having more removal. A shame it can't block Delver.
- Add Walking Ballistas to deal with Elves and Swarm decks.
- Wasteland Strangler might be a good SB card with all DRS shenanigans going on.
- Replace the Factories for more colored lands to support the new W/B plan better.

Not sure what to cut, but I'll figure out that one later.

Welcome back Barook! I'm getting back into playing legacy as well.

I'm drawn towards Thalias and Eldrazi white build from playing your white version before I left. For TNN, I'm thinking Blessed Alliance for a list with more white source. For Elves, Thalia 2.0 and/or Containment Priest.

[sporenfrosch1411]

Regarding Bearer of Silence as a tech vs TNN i often found my opponents to sac a dork, since TNN decks most likely happen to have 2 or more creatures on the board. Im not sure if Bearer really is the correct answer here (regarding Blade and Leo-Bug). Leo BUG is a special case, since your opp will draw a card with leo on board and then just sac a dork... feels even worse then ....
VS Delver decks, his manacost can be a problem, but if you are able to cast him "kicked" he does a really nice job, since those deck often have only 1 creature on board.
So far i think cutting all the 6 mana eldrazi while playing more cmc2/3 eldrazi seems to be a good direction since the meta seems to become faster right now.
Aside from Displacer, which i will most likely use as a 4-off again, maybe Obligator is nice again, too, since he can just steal a SNT/Reanimator threat or just present a fast hasty clock vs more combo-orientated decks. Also he is really strong in the mirror.
On the other hand, he is really bad vs Elves and DnT which is a huge downside, considering those decks will also tick up in meta share as far as i assume. A
I really like the idea of Blessed Alliance, but im not sure if we can "afford" that card regarding the manabase. I see about 6 white-slots in the manabase plus 3 petals. Seems a bit shaky to me.

[Barook]

I'm not too worried about S&T/Reanimator while running Karakas/Displacer, although Containment Priest would shore up the match-up even further.

I'm torn between White Eldrazi and Thalia Stompy. The problem is that White Eldrazi doesn't really support the mana base to run the (excellent) white hate cards we need, while Thalia Stompy gives me a first impression that the game plan is diluted and cards are clashing with each other (e.g. naming Human vs Eldrazi on Cavern, aggro cards like Smasher vs durdle cards like SFM).

If White Eldrazi was to run white hate cards, it would require a serious retooling of the manabase (with questionable outcome).

[sporenfrosch1411]

What white hate cards would you run, and why?
I assume Rest in Peace would be great for this deck, but aside from that.... Disenchant maybe... ?

[Barook]

What white hate cards would you run, and why?
I assume Rest in Peace would be great for this deck, but aside from that.... Disenchant maybe... ?
Containment Priest, which I also used in the past before dropping it to streamline the deck.

RIP is too slow and too hard to cast, I prefer Leyline over it, despite its disadvantages.

Other than that, Holy Light looks pretty attractive since it can kill TNN and creature swarms. But again, non-creature white mana is a total bitch to cast reliably.

[MD.Ghost]

If you splash heavy white than you should play "Eldrazi&Taxes"/"Thalia Stompy" having Thalia over thorn or any white creature over stuff like Mimic is way better if you already have the mana to support it - you simply have only disruptiv creatures besides Smasher (because Smasher is Smasher and he is good enough for "smash the opponent").

Blessed Alliance is an underrated card and works well against TNN, Gofy, Delver or any big dump fatty like Marit Lage.

The bad design of Bearer of Silence sadly disqualifies him to be "the guy we are looking for" (thanks Wizard for his shitty mana) - i played some games with UB Eldrazi but Mimic doesnt act well with Bearer and Skyspawner you have to many 2/1 dudes that aren't powerfull enough unless you get something like Jitte.

What else can deal with TNN-Walls? The lovely Sideboard-Card: All is Dust likes to eat the Merfolk and all his friends on the field, you can fly over him with Skyspawner or go bigger -> Wretched Gryff (dodges a lot of removal too), since Smasher isn't bad against TNN you can also try Phyrexian Metamorph (more Smasher/TKS, or copy TNN, opponents Equipment and bonus points for flickering it with Displacer). Or if you still stay colorless: Key to the City

Overall splashing for hate-spells we have White (see above) and Black (Toxic Deluge) and we can scroll back because we had a lot of discussion with all of it befores everyone used nearly the same colorless shell.

[Traveler]

So I have two 4-1's over the last two days after I got fed up losing games to people drawing their deck's two basics with Dragon Stompy.

Yesterday:

0-2 Four-Color Loam (First game he had Mox into Wasteland+Loam Turn 1, Second game he had 3 Wastelands each of the first 3 Turns, and then I got 22 cards deep without drawing another land)
2-0 Grixis Delver
2-0 Grixis Delver
2-0 Four-Color Stoneblade
2-1 Grixis Delver

Today:

2-0 UWR Standstill
0-2 Shardless BUG (Why are people playing this still)
2-1 UR Blood Moon/True Name/Madcap Experiment for Platinum Emperion
2-0 TES (Bryant Cook)
2-0 Grixis Delver

Whew that was a lot of Grixis. I think the colorless version is well equipped to handle most of the currently decks. Its still hard to say where the meta will settle down. But I think we need to be prepared for lots of Delver and a decent amount of storm too.

[MD.Ghost]

Next step from our discussion yesterday:

Uw-Eldrazi:

// 60 Maindeck

// 10 Artifact
4 Chalice of the Void (new police of the format)
2 Umezawa's Jitte (still best equip and it gets better with flying eldrazi)
3 Mox Diamond (permanent color and landfix)
1 Crucible of Worlds (can be another card but overall works good with mox and against manadenial)

// 25 Creature
4 Eldrazi Mimic
3 Eldrazi Skyspawner (fly over TNN/Gofy, combo with displacer, blocks Delver/Flyers and token mana against moon)
4 Reality Smasher
4 Thought-Knot Seer
3 Eldrazi Displacer (Barook and i already wrote alot about this card, overall improves many situations from Batterskull/Gofy over S&S/Marit Lage)
3 Wretched Gryff (big flying dude, delver/bolt/decay/push-proof too, get rid of useless Reshaper/Mimics etc.)
4 Matter Reshaper (gets better now with Sorcery-Sweeper/Liliana, fodder for Gryff and maybe drops nice cc3 cards: Jitte/Displacer/Sky etc.)

// 25 Land
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Cavern of Souls
2 City of Traitors
4 Eldrazi Temple
3 Eye of Ugin
2 Karakas (S&S/Reanimate/DnT/Lands)
4 Corrupted Crossroads
2 Aether Hub

// 15 Sideboard
SB: 2 Ratchet Bomb
SB: 3 Thorn of Amethyst
SB: 2 Endbringer
SB: 3 Faerie Macabre
SB: 3 Spatial Contortion
SB: 2 All Is Dust

Overall this builds contains 13 sources for Eldrazi Spells with Devoid(Color) +2 Karakas (Displacer), maybe the numbers can be tweaked a little bit more (greedy for Wastelands^^). Note that Gryff can still be hardcast with colorless mana and Reshaper can put Skyspawner/Displacer directly on the battlefield too.

The build has 6 Creatures with Flying which should improve a lot of situations that aren't easy for common Eldrazi Builds. With access to Displacer the build is also equiped to deal with other harder matchups (S&S etc.).

With Mox and Skyspawner-Tokens the build have a kind of spare wheel to fight back against Moon effects too.

Sideboard can be anything else but i thought this should work against various decks/situations.

Feel free to discuss/test it.

[bruizar]

Feel free to discuss/test it.

Man.. I would make room for a singleton Rasputin Dreamweaver in there somewhere for the combo finish.Can't pass up on the infinite mana + infinite blink on thought-knot seer to deck someone and it's easy to assemble with eye of ugin.

[MD.Ghost]

Man.. I would make room for a singleton Rasputin Dreamweaver in there somewhere for the combo finish.Can't pass up on the infinite mana + infinite blink on thought-knot seer to deck someone and it's easy to assemble with eye of ugin.

Yeah i have this card ready but overall it needs another shell (more a kind of uW Thalia Stompy) so not part of the story here - but you are right it is one of the cool (to cool for legacy) Displacer interactions and you can win via endless TKS or Skyspawner (since you already need U-Mana) but overall a 3 card combo...

EDIT

last 5 matches with the build above:

2:1 Esperblade
2:1 MUD
2:1 UR Delver
2:1 DnT
2:0 Gideon Staxx

Overall having 6 flying Eldrazi seems solid as expected - ("Opponent cast moat, i transforms Smasher into a 3/4 Flyer etc." / Karakas itself works fine vs DnT and i got another testgame with T1 Grisel and Topdeck Karakas like a boss) Crucible might be too much, but it won me two Games (MUD/DnT) against multiple Wastelands. Sideboard is still flexible. Also note that Eldrazi Skyspawner can ramp nicely with his Scion into bigger stuff or if your opponent try to apply manadenial against you.

[Troll_ov_Grimness]

I went 4-0 last night beating Show And Tell, Re-Animator, and two Storm decks.
With this crazy list,

Tangle Wire managed to tap down my opponent's Show And Tell deck at just the right moment so that he couldn't cast anything. Karakas did heavy lifting in a previous game. Against Re-Animator, Thought-knot Seer and Karakas were a house. I'm very pleased with Tangle Wire and won't go back to Thorn Of Amethyst which I've placed in the board for Storm. The thing about Tangle Wire is that - yes, it's only a symmetrical effect some of the time unlike it is in Vintage where you have more stuff to tap down but like in Vintage you will sometimes have a Chalice or an Eye of Ugin to tap that won't effect you. The first time Tangle Wire comes around to tap you out, you only need to tap 3 things, including the Tangle Wire and a couple other things. I think losing tempo for only 1 or 2 turns is worth it if you can land a big threat on the battlefield. One thing to keep in mind about Tangle Wire is it worth it to play something like a Thought-knot Seer and then to Tangle Wire or is it better to cast a Reality Smasher?

12 Artifacts
4 Chalice Of the Void
4 Tangle Wire
2 Warping Wail
2 Dismember

22 Creatures
4 Reality Smasher
4 Thought-knot Seer
4 Matter Reshaper
4 Endless One
4 Eldrazi Mimic
2 Endbringer

26 Lands
4 Ancient Tomb
3 Eye Of Ugin
3 City of Traitors
4 Wasteland
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Karakas
4 Eldrazi Temple

My sideboard isn't the greatest,

4 Tormod's Crypt
4 Grafdigger's Cage
4 Thorn Of Amethyst
3 Ratchet Bomb

[Barook]

Next step from our discussion yesterday:

Uw-Eldrazi:

// 60 Maindeck

// 10 Artifact
4 Chalice of the Void (new police of the format)
2 Umezawa's Jitte (still best equip and it gets better with flying eldrazi)
3 Mox Diamond (permanent color and landfix)
1 Crucible of Worlds (can be another card but overall works good with mox and against manadenial)

// 25 Creature
4 Eldrazi Mimic
3 Eldrazi Skyspawner (fly over TNN/Gofy, combo with displacer, blocks Delver/Flyers and token mana against moon)
4 Reality Smasher
4 Thought-Knot Seer
3 Eldrazi Displacer (Barook and i already wrote alot about this card, overall improves many situations from Batterskull/Gofy over S&S/Marit Lage)
3 Wretched Gryff (big flying dude, delver/bolt/decay/push-proof too, get rid of useless Reshaper/Mimics etc.)
4 Matter Reshaper (gets better now with Sorcery-Sweeper/Liliana, fodder for Gryff and maybe drops nice cc3 cards: Jitte/Displacer/Sky etc.)

// 25 Land
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Cavern of Souls
2 City of Traitors
4 Eldrazi Temple
3 Eye of Ugin
2 Karakas (S&S/Reanimate/DnT/Lands)
4 Corrupted Crossroads
2 Aether Hub

// 15 Sideboard
SB: 2 Ratchet Bomb
SB: 3 Thorn of Amethyst
SB: 2 Endbringer
SB: 3 Faerie Macabre
SB: 3 Spatial Contortion
SB: 2 All Is Dust

Overall this builds contains 13 sources for Eldrazi Spells with Devoid(Color) +2 Karakas (Displacer), maybe the numbers can be tweaked a little bit more (greedy for Wastelands^^). Note that Gryff can still be hardcast with colorless mana and Reshaper can put Skyspawner/Displacer directly on the battlefield too.

The build has 6 Creatures with Flying which should improve a lot of situations that aren't easy for common Eldrazi Builds. With access to Displacer the build is also equiped to deal with other harder matchups (S&S etc.).

With Mox and Skyspawner-Tokens the build have a kind of spare wheel to fight back against Moon effects too.

Sideboard can be anything else but i thought this should work against various decks/situations.

Feel free to discuss/test it.
A more flyer-focused seems very interesting, at the very least, since it can block Delver and get around TNN.

Not too sure if CoW is any good, since it lacks the Wastelands to really abuse it. I'm not a fan of Mox Diamond in general, but with the higher color requirement, I don't think Petal would get the job done, either. The W/U Talisman might be an option, but it could be too slow as well.

[razvan]

Went 4-0 at the nightly legacy tournament.

Faced BR Reanimator, Abzan Loam, Food Chain and Sneak and Show. Got a bit lucky against the 2 last combo decks, but the match-up isn't as atrocious as I thought.

I want to try Fleetwheel Cruiser. Might be slightly too crazy, but that's my wheelhouse!

4 Reality Smasher
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Eldrazi Mimic
4 Oblivion Sower
4 Matter Reshaper
1 Endbringer
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger

4 Chalice of the Void
3 Warping Wail
3 Grim Monolith
1 Icy Manipulator
1 Forcefield
1 Batterskull

2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
3 Wasteland
4 Cavern of Souls
3 Eye of Ugin
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Ancient Tomb
2 City of Traitors
2 Karakas
1 Seagate Wreckage

4 Leyline of the Void
3 All is Dust
2 Ratchet Bomb
2 Crucible of Worlds
4 Thorn of Amethyst

[Qernavak]

Just a quick update:

The format very unpredictable, but clearly converging to fast combo. To the point where I faced 7 consecutive combo decks, a mix of storm, belcher, show and tell, mono red sneak attack, tin fins, aluren. Went 1-6 vs. those 7. I have also eschewed the factories and replaced them with Wastes (3x in main deck) to combat the very popular turn 1 blood moon decks. I also replaced my 2x wastelands for 1 city of traitors and 1 karakas.

When I have more positive results I will post a new decklist.

On another topic, I noticed that for the last two weeks, only one other Eldrazi deck has been posted. In my case, my 5-0 didn't make it, since they only take 10 per day, randomly selected. However, this is the 3rd or 4th time in a row that this happens to me (within a month's period or so). Has anyone else playing Eldrazi experienced the same? I'm not trying to imply WotC is intentionally biasing the lists, but if others are experiencing the same, maybe is worth asking them to review their methods of selecting lists. I don't care if the don't publish mine, I just want to see what others are trying and having success with.

Edit:

I just 5-0'd with this list:

2 Dismember
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Chalice of the Void
3 City of Traitors
4 Eldrazi Mimic
4 Endless One
4 Eye of Ugin
2 Walking Ballista
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Reality Smasher
3 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Thought-Knot Seer
2 Umezawa's Jitte
4 Eldrazi Temple
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
3 Wastes
4 Matter Reshaper
1 Karakas
2 Phyrexian Revoker

3 Thorn of Amethyst
2 Warping Wail
2 Walking Ballista
2 Ratchet Bomb
4 Leyline of the Void
1 All Is Dust
1 Karakas

True to my word, I tested with Phyrexian Revoker and boy did it win me some games. Naming from LED to Moggcatcher to Deathrite Shaman. Karakas are there, but didn't need to use them. I big reason why I was able to win five games in a row was that i won 4 of the die rolls. I noticed that with the format as fast as it has become, winning the die roll is strongly correlated to one's chances of winning.

[MD.Ghost]

My current Uw Version (see discussion above)

// 60 Maindeck

// 9 Artifact
4 Chalice of the Void
2 Umezawa's Jitte
3 Mox Diamond

// 26 Creature
4 Eldrazi Mimic
4 Reality Smasher
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Matter Reshaper
3 Eldrazi Skyspawner
3 Wretched Gryff
3 Eldrazi Displacer
1 Triskelion

// 25 Land
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Corrupted Crossroads
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Eye of Ugin
2 City of Traitors
2 Karakas
1 Wastes

// 15 Sideboard
SB: 2 Ratchet Bomb
SB: 3 Thorn of Amethyst
SB: 2 Pithing Needle
SB: 3 Faerie Macabre
SB: 3 Walking Ballista
SB: 2 All Is Dust

Some notes:
-Flying Eldrazi are a very new thing and some players start rapidly searching for answer once you fly over TNN or are able to block Delver&Co. -Skyspawner itself can offer some nice ramp thanks to his token so you get some explosives turns with it (today i had, turn 1 skyspawner and mimic with mox+eye, following up with turn 2 TKS and Displacer) Combo with Displacer itself also one me a game against Blade because i was able to blink it two more times just for tokens and follow up with a lethal swing.
-Displacer itself is solid enough, one game i need to tutor for it with eye, because i was dying against lingerings-souls token equiped with Batterskull.
-i cutted Crucible because i have no Wastelands (but still experiment with lands/color), thought about a powerfull one off, starting with Endbringer, over World Breaker (more Blade with Equipment/more Sneak Attacks/Burn still has E.Bridge etc.) and now trying good old Triskelion. (for 6 Mana its better than Ballista because it is a 4/4 that is a) harder to kill and b) can quickly kill your opponent with displacer) so for me better as a one off target if you aren't able to win the game (bridge/moat/stalled field etc.)
-experimenting with land/color slots - i currently cutted both Aether Hubs and trying 1 Wastes and 1 more Eye (tutor/powerfull ramp/Wasteland target/and i have mox for useless copies) but it still can anything else (3rd City, manlands etc.)
-sideboard biggest change was the cut of 3 spot removal and add 3 ballista. For 2 mana you can either kill a dude or get a 1/1 Ballista, if you have the Removal you can kill bigger dudes, but in a lot of situations you also kill only a X/1 and if you have 4+ mana ballista gets better and is overall the better topdeck (you can also protected it with chalice) and i like to have creatures at side to keep a my creature count. Thanks to the flying brigade i also found out that i not need any instant solution against turn 1 delver
-i also found room for 2 Needle and i think this card should also be nice enough at the current meta chaos (stoping sneak/lands etc.)

[sporenfrosch1411]

How's the Ballista testing going?
I see many lists trying them out, but am kinda wondering about whether its worth it?

[Qernavak]

How's the Ballista testing going?
I see many lists trying them out, but am kinda wondering about whether its worth it?

Ballista is performing great! it's a creature and removal all in one. Plus it can be played under blood moon, and it even grows! I have several matchups vs. blood moon stompy won because I had ballista (and they didn't have revoker on ballista).

Just took another league 5-0 with the same configuration as my previous list. The metagame is normalizing, no more X consecutive games vs. storm or grixis delver. I even played against lands, and won, thanks to my 3xWastes and 2xKarakas in the deck ;)

I noticed that about half the players that were in Miracles went to a Bug or grixis delver variant, and the other half to Czech pile. Anyone else noticing similar trends?

[Barook]

Ballista is performing great! it's a creature and removal all in one. Plus it can be played under blood moon, and it even grows! I have several matchups vs. blood moon stompy won because I had ballista (and they didn't have revoker on ballista).

Just took another league 5-0 with the same configuration as my previous list. The metagame is normalizing, no more X consecutive games vs. storm or grixis delver. I even played against lands, and won, thanks to my 3xWastes and 2xKarakas in the deck ;)

I noticed that about half the players that were in Miracles went to a Bug or grixis delver variant, and the other half to Czech pile. Anyone else noticing similar trends?
Gratz

For what X value do you normally cast Ballista and how often are you leveling it up? I'm not sold on Ballista yet with the current manabase.

[mistercakes]

from past experience using ballista in affinity i'm quite happy casting ballista for x=1 or x=2. it's suprisingly good as a pumpable mogg fanatic. really bizzare, but it will make sense when you play it out in games.

[Barook]

from past experience using ballista in affinity i'm quite happy casting ballista for x=1 or x=2. it's suprisingly good as a pumpable mogg fanatic. really bizzare, but it will make sense when you play it out in games.
Given that Dismember is also used to dispatch certain annoying weenie creatures, that makes sense. Especially when it doubles as threat, reach included.

I'll test and refine a list similiar to the one of MD.Ghost when I find the time:

// 8 Artifact
4 Chalice of the Void
2 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Talisman of Progress

// 27 Creature
4 Eldrazi Mimic
4 Reality Smasher
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Matter Reshaper
3 Eldrazi Skyspawner
3 Wretched Gryff
3 Eldrazi Displacer
2 Walking Ballista

// 25 Land
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Corrupted Crossroads
2 Adarkar Wastes
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Eldrazi Temple
3 Eye of Ugin
2 City of Traitors
2 Karakas

// 15 Sideboard
2 Ratchet Bomb
3 Thorn of Amethyst
4 Leyline of the Void
2 Walking Ballista
2 All Is Dust
1 Eldrazi Displacer
1 Karakas

[Qernavak]

Gratz

For what X value do you normally cast Ballista and how often are you leveling it up? I'm not sold on Ballista yet with the current manabase.

I apologize for the long absence. Work got really busy this week.

I have been testing for Ballista for quite while, and one of the lessons I have learned is that Ballista is a long-term card. Is not the sort of card that one jam on turn 1 or 2, but rather you want to play when it can at least trade with a creature or eat a counterspell. The most common example is playing Ballista at X=1 to trade with an unflipped delver.

Another important lesson, while probably obvious, is that when faced with the option of playing a second ballista, vs. pumping the one in play, almost always the correct move is to play the second ballista. This is because you get more counters by playing a second one. This is true now more than before, since Terminus is nonexistent.

[LVA]

Hey everyone, I recently just got my city of traitors and ancient tombs together so I can finally play this deck and loan it out and stuff. I just wanted some opinions about card choices considering I have never played a game with the deck.

My first impression from just looking at the decklists is that simian spirit guide seems awful in a 25 land deck. I'm just curious if it is really that important to get a onetime source of acceleration. I understand turn 1 chalice is super important but I feel like just having some more action would be better. I've been thinking about running one of the early versions of the deck from last year with 4 thorns instead of the spirit guides. With more 2 cmc lock pieces I was also considering jumping to 3 or 4 city's and more wastelands to take advantage of thorn better.

Anyway I can post a decklist if it helps, these are just my thoughts and i would like it if someone more experienced with the deck can explain the reasoning behind stuff like spirit guide. Like I said I have no experience with this deck so any advice or thoughts are appreciated.

[Cave]

Hey everyone, I recently just got my city of traitors and ancient tombs together so I can finally play this deck and loan it out and stuff. I just wanted some opinions about card choices considering I have never played a game with the deck.

My first impression from just looking at the decklists is that simian spirit guide seems awful in a 25 land deck. I'm just curious if it is really that important to get a onetime source of acceleration. I understand turn 1 chalice is super important but I feel like just having some more action would be better. I've been thinking about running one of the early versions of the deck from last year with 4 thorns instead of the spirit guides. With more 2 cmc lock pieces I was also considering jumping to 3 or 4 city's and more wastelands to take advantage of thorn better.

Anyway I can post a decklist if it helps, these are just my thoughts and i would like it if someone more experienced with the deck can explain the reasoning behind stuff like spirit guide. Like I said I have no experience with this deck so any advice or thoughts are appreciated.

I am not a fan of the card myself, but i really think you should play at least two copies of SSG, as I do.
Unlike traditional aggros, this stompy deck doesn't win games by his ability to produce constant threats. Two or three well placed monsters are usually what it takes to bring the game home if they come down fast enough. Your 25 stock lands are decent at granting you to drop your big threats consistantly on turns 2-3, but they sometimes fail. That's why you need SSG.
There are times in which a delayed TKS can cost you the game, or a T3 Smasher is much much better (thanks to mimic) than a T4 smasher. By playing the deck more you will realize that there are just so many situations (e.g. starting hands with Cavern+SolLand+TKS or Eldrazi Temples+Chalice) where a single burst mana can make the difference between a well started game and a game where you're behind. So trust me, play 2-3 of those apes. You don't care about card disadvantage as long as you win your games; SSGs are also good at cheating daze and, unlike additional lands, you can desperado fling them into play via cavern if you need to.
Just play the deck a bit, they're not as bad as they look on paper.

[Troll_ov_Grimness]

I found this crazy list playing Phyrexian Dreadnought and want to try it, scroll towards the bottom it's the last decklist on the page, http://legitmtg.com/priemers-primers-legacy-eldrazi-style/

This is the changes I made to it,

4 Eldrazi Mimic
4 Matter Reshaper
4 Thought Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
2 Endbringer
4 Endless One
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Phyrexian Dreadnought
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Lotus Petal
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Eye Of Ugin
4 City of Traitors
4 Cavern Of Souls
4 Eldrazi Temple
2 Karakas

[TTX]

Dreadnought has cool synergy with Mimic, but it doesn't seem worth it if you're also playing Chalice of the Void.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[sporenfrosch1411]

Its nice that you can play Dreadnought and then sac the 12/12 mimic to keep the 'nought, or attack with a 12/12 mimic, but i think just for the synergy with mimic, Dreadnought is too shaky.....maybe there is another option how to enable Dreadnought in Eldrazi and make it "profitable"? Cant think of one though from the top of my head. Torpor Orb and stifle obviously aren't options...

[ESG]

Its nice that you can play Dreadnought and then sac the 12/12 mimic to keep the 'nought, or attack with a 12/12 mimic, but i think just for the synergy with mimic, Dreadnought is too shaky.....maybe there is another option how to enable Dreadnought in Eldrazi and make it "profitable"? Cant think of one though from the top of my head. Torpor Orb and stifle obviously aren't options...

You have to go pretty deep if you're committing to a Dreadnought plan, but people forget that this card exists:

http://magiccards.info/scans/en/un/250.jpg

[sporenfrosch1411]

Maybe play 4 Mimic, 4 Dreadnought, 3 Mask.
But then again... what to cut for that... and dunno if its worth it at all.

[Troll_ov_Grimness]

You have to go pretty deep if you're committing to a Dreadnought plan, but people forget that this card exists:

http://magiccards.info/scans/en/un/250.jpg

I would cut the removal.

My store has mask for $85 so maybe sometime I'll get some I didn't realize how "cheap" they were

I have a question about the card ,

Variable Colorless: You may choose a creature card in your hand whose mana cost could be paid by some amount of, or all of, the mana you spent on Variable Colorless. If you do, you may cast that card face down as a 2/2 creature spell without paying its mana cost. If the creature that spell becomes as it resolves has not been turned face up and would assign or deal damage, be dealt damage, or become tapped, instead it's turned face up and assigns or deals damage, is dealt damage, or becomes tapped. Activate this ability only any time you could cast a sorcery.

this is the oracle text for the card, what does it mean when it says, You may choose a creature card in your hand whose mana cost could be paid by some amount of, or all of, the mana you spent on Variable Colorless, if I pay X cost is 0 for Dreadnought does it still come into play? Do I have to pay more mana later or something? It says I may pay some of or all of

what is the reasoning for it saying some of or all of?

[Hopo]

It means you are allowed to pay more than you need to.

[Cave]

My store has mask for $85 so maybe sometime I'll get some I didn't realize how "cheap" they were

Off topic: Mask was printed only in the early days and never reprinted because of the wacky mechanic and weird interactions it creates, not to forget its text was written in that overcomplicated formula and they couldn't solve the issue by making it easier to understand. Price skyrocketed back in the days when vintage was a thing, when they discovered the Dreadnought combo.

Btw, I would never cut removal for the fancy combo, let alone take out chalice which is one of the main reasons this deck is a thing...

[Cryoclasm]

I would cut the removal.

My store has mask for $85 so maybe sometime I'll get some I didn't realize how "cheap" they were

I have a question about the card ,

Variable Colorless: You may choose a creature card in your hand whose mana cost could be paid by some amount of, or all of, the mana you spent on Variable Colorless. If you do, you may cast that card face down as a 2/2 creature spell without paying its mana cost. If the creature that spell becomes as it resolves has not been turned face up and would assign or deal damage, be dealt damage, or become tapped, instead it's turned face up and assigns or deals damage, is dealt damage, or becomes tapped. Activate this ability only any time you could cast a sorcery.

this is the oracle text for the card, what does it mean when it says, You may choose a creature card in your hand whose mana cost could be paid by some amount of, or all of, the mana you spent on Variable Colorless, if I pay X cost is 0 for Dreadnought does it still come into play? Do I have to pay more mana later or something? It says I may pay some of or all of

what is the reasoning for it saying some of or all of?

You can find answers to your questions here:
http://magiccards.info/un/en/250.html

Specifically this:
10/1/2009: Both the amount and types of mana you spend on {X} are taken into account while you’re choosing a creature card from your hand. For example, if you spent {U}{U} on {X}, you can choose a creature card with mana cost {U}{U}, {1}{U}, {2}, or {W/U}{W/U}, among other possibilities, but not one that costs {2}{U} or one that costs {G}.

[sporenfrosch1411]

Thats actually a valid point.
Dropping Chalice@1 and then having a bunch of Dreadnought in Hands sounds like dead cards. And chalice is boarded out in so few matchups, that i'd say Dreadnought is not worth the effort.

[13b]

How are the Eldrazi positioned, I am considering building them, but I have not seen them in many top 8's recently and have read in other threads the deck is on the decline. Any thoughts from frequent players?

[Cave]

How are the Eldrazi positioned, I am considering building them, but I have not seen them in many top 8's recently and have read in other threads the deck is on the decline. Any thoughts from frequent players?

The deck is for sure struggling to find a place in the new metagame, mainly because people are trying new things. Here's some food for thought.

1. Two very relevant decks in this new metagame are Grixis Delver and Storm, which both suffer from a well placed early piece of lockdown. Storm is a very favourable matchup, and Grixis Delver, if not favourable, is at least ok-ish (better than bug variants anyway). The other big force emerging in this meta is Sneak and Show, which is indeed hard to meet for our deck. If you build an eldrazi deck, you should really consider those three opposing decks while putting together your list.
2. The statement that "Eldrazi is not well placed in the current metagame" only truly applies to big tournaments. On the contrary, it may or may not (most likely the latter) apply to your local league metagame, which means that if you never (or very rarely) go to big events, then you don't really care about that statement. If your local meta has 4 High Tide players, then run eldrazi and win their money :tongue:.
3. With all the above being said, Eldrazi deck is still objectively the best stompy deck that you can currently build. Big and smart beasts, terrific clock, huge pressure, less mana problems than the usual MUD/Dstompy/Ustompy list and also less dead draws. It's still really good no matter what its current role in the metagame is.
4. The deck is relatively cheap (except the damn city of traitors) and it's straightforward to play, and -at least to me- a lot of fun. If you like it, go for it.

[potatodavid]

Played a little last Thursday with the lovecraft.

What i discovered. After going 3-1.

Turn 3, 20x damage is still fun.

Baleful strix & Tarmogoyf is almost always GG's

I think this deck is still good but not tier 1.

[jwl3gg]

Hey, what are the Food Chain and Aluren matchups?

[potatodavid]

Hey, what are the Food Chain and Aluren matchups?

Food chain

Game 1. Race.
Game 2. Race with spacial contortion?

Alluren.
Game 1. Race
Game 2. Race

Baleful strix is a shitty card to fight.

[f7eleven]

You have to go pretty deep if you're committing to a Dreadnought plan, but people forget that this card exists:

http://magiccards.info/scans/en/un/250.jpg

Thanks, ESG! You inspired me to pick up Eldrazi again, and I played it to a 2nd place finish for a Volcanic Island this past weekend. Here's a quick report I wrote up for my friends:

Game Hunters got 24 players today, so 5 rounds, cut to top 8.

I played Eldrazi, cutting all the removal for a playset each of Illusionary Mask and Phyrexian Dreadnought. I also didn't play Wasteland - have never liked it in the deck. List at the end.

In the swiss I played versus, in order: NicFit, UB Standstill, Grixis Delver, BR Reanimator, and Shardless - losing to Standstill and intentionally drawing with Shardless.

Round 1, my opening hand of the tournament was the turn-2 kill (Double Mimic into Dreadnought).

Landstill and I were the last to finish in round 2, he beat me 2-0. The games were petty awesome.

Chalices and Thorns did in the Delver player.

In game 2 vs reanimator (on the play) I kept a hand that went Thorn, Thorn, TKS, Smasher the first 4 turns. In game 3 I mulled to THREE and finally found a Leyline; he scooped. He had Reverent Silence in game 2, but took them out for game 3. :-p

Drew into 5th seed and faced Landstill again in the quarters. He never saw a Dreadnought in our swiss match, but they crushed him and exacted revenge in the playoffs.

I beat infect in the semis after dropping the first game. Walking Ballista was insane.

Turn-1 Thoughtseize wrecked me in both games of the finals after some sketchy keeps. Game 1 was a hand with turn-2 Smasher, Game 2 was turn-2 TKS, with the creature discarded both times.

A note on the list... The Mishra's Factories were a hold over from when I had Smugglers Copters. I cut the two copters for the 4th Mask and 3rd Elvish Spirit Guide after FNM. I meant to switch the Factories to Wastes (the basic) but forgot to.

Copter had a cool interaction with mask, being able to flip up the 2/2 at will. But wasn't good enough. And mask and spirit guide impressed at FNM. Also, Mask lets you cast Dreadnought through a Chalice on 1 (since it's CMC is 0 when played face-down). I also named Dreadnought with Cavern a few times to play him face-up through Chalice on 1.

4 Ancient Tomb
4 Cavern of Souls
3 City of Traitors
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Eye of Ugin
4 Mishra's Factory
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Eldrazi Mimic
3 Elvish Spirit Guide
4 Endless One
4 Illusionary Mask
4 Matter Reshaper
4 Phyrexian Dreadnought
4 Reality Smasher
4 Thought-Knot Seer

Sideboard:
3 All Is Dust
4 Leyline of the Void
4 Thorn of Amethyst
4 Walking Ballista

[mulder]

Am I the only one who finds the amount of times you get manascrewed mind-boggling? I play 26 lands, and I have to mulllgan practically every match at least once because i get manascrewed. is this a general thing or am i just unlucky?

[bobomb]

I picked up this deck after it seemed to fall out of favor. As a long time Metalworker player, I realized how inexpensive it would be to pivot into this build so I gave it a shot and I'm enjoying it. I think it has enough positive matchups to warrant play still.

My list is a little different, and has more of an agro stance. In the 3CM spot I'm running 4x Eldrazi Obligator instead of Matter Reshaper. I found Matte Reshaper underwhelming, and I like the way Obligator curves with the game state. Cast him for 3 to have a hasted 3 power. Cast him for 5 to have a hasted 3 power and remove a problematic blocker for a combat phase. Cast him for 5 with Ashnod's Altar and you can remove that problematic creature as well.

Ashnod's Altar is another unusual choice that I'm playtesting. In addition to the synergy with Eldrazi Obligator, with a Warping Wail in hand, it allows you to tap out each turn and just swing - and not worry about holding 2 mana to counter a Natural Order, Tendrils of Agony, Reanimate, etc. It also allows me to worry less about Blood Moon and run all non-basics.

Anyways, here's my list:

4 eldrazi mimic
4 reality smasher
4 thought-knot seer
4 eldrazi obligator
4 endless one
4 simian spirit guide

4 chalice of the void
4 warping wail
2 umezawa's jitte
2 ashnod's altar

4 ancient tomb
4 cavern of souls
3 city of traitors
4 eldrazi temple
3 eye of ugin
2 urborg, tomb of yawgmoth
4 sulfurous springs

[Cave]

I think a light splash is needed if the deck wants to improve and adapt to the metagame. Reshaper and SSG are underperforming and should be replaced, but there is no reasonable colorless alternative. For the same reason, Wasteland and Factory, while great cards per se, hold Eldrazi Stompy back from the main plain, which is to abuse the 8 extra dual lands to aggro. I think there is no problem to drop some 1-mana lands and add some color, especially because I've tried Displacer and I think it's seriously too good not to be played and deserves it's spot in the deck. Here are two starting points:


1. W Splash
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Eye of Ugin
4 Cavern of Souls
3 Wastelands
2 City of Traitors
2-3 Caves of Koilos
1 Karakas
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth

4 Endless One
4 Eldrazi Mimic
3-4 Matter Reshaper
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
3 Eldrazi Displacer
2 Endbringer

4 Chalice of the Void
2 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Dismember
2 Warping Wail/All is Dust


2. UW Splash
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Eye of Ugin
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Corrupted Crossroads
3 Adarkar Wastes
2 City of Traitors

4 Endless One
4 Eldrazi Mimic
4 Eldrazi Skyspawner
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
3 Eldrazi Displacer
2 Endbringer

4 Chalice of the Void
2 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Dismember
2 Warping Wail/All is Dust

The second one is very similar to an offbeat list who placed 2/151 in spain one year ago. I think Drowner of Hope is still too weak to mana denial and Endbringer is more versatile in the end.

[Megadeus]

Any thought to green splash for crucible man? Helps waste lock, and helps the mana which can be awkward when opponent gets a double waste draw. Also you get mox diamond which gives you some explosive draws.

[Cave]

Any thought to green splash for crucible man? Helps waste lock, and helps the mana which can be awkward when opponent gets a double waste draw. Also you get mox diamond which gives you some explosive draws.

I don't know. In theory, it looks pretty bad.

1. It's not colorless, so it doesn't trigger mimic.
2. It's not an eldrazi, so it would probably require some investment in the manabase, like calling "Naga" with cavern of souls, or cutting some lands in order to support the green splash with Bayou and/or Llanowar Wastes. And to be honest, the first land I would cut from the traditional colorless list is exactly Wasteland.
3. Green (and I mean, devoided green :laugh:) offers pretty mediocre eldrazis: you just have some scion generators (e.g. Scion Summoner and Eyeless Watcher) and an overcosted permanent removal in World Breaker. All of these are inferior to the opportunities offered by splashing black (Wasteland Strangler, Bearer of Silence), red (Eldrazi Obligator), blue (Eldrazi Skyspawner, Drowner of Hope) and especially white (Eldrazi Displacer). Also, green offers less sideboard opportunities than any of the aforementioned. The splash would be exclusively for the naga cleric, and I don't think it's worth enough.
4. Its body is kinda tiny, it doesn't fly or trample: not really where we want to be. Also, creature is the most hatable supertype of the game since 1993, and this metagame is full of Lighning Bolts just as it was 1993. Why should you splash green when you can stay colorless and have Crucible of Worlds?
5. Even in the possibilty you can execute the Ramunap plan with success (e.g. chalice, then Ramunap Excavator, then recursive mana disruption), that's not really what a Stompy deck wants to be. Our plan is to stick a soft piece of lock which slows them down just enough for us to be able to drop unanswerable threats. There's no time for mana denial; in fact, my opinion is that Wasteland is the worst card of our manabase. Just look at other colored stompy decks: they don't play Wasteland. We can afford to do it because we have 8 extra sol lands, but full mana denial's not really our plan.

I think the right path is to focus on creatures. Matter Reshaper gets played because it's decent and it's the 6th best colorless eldrazi, but I don't think it's doing enough to be in the deck anymore. The first step to improve the deck is to splash a color and find a decent Eldrazi substitute for Reshaper. In order to do this, I think we have to drop some unnecessary lands (e.g. the ones which provide 1 mana) and play some colored ones. I have tested an UW list which is very similar the second list I posted above and I've had very convincing wins pre and post-side against Grixis Delver and Death and Taxes. I think it's well worth trying: the deck is stable (11 colored lands for 8-9 drops is ok) and it has powerful options you would not even dream of while playing the colorless list, like blocking delver, or combat tricks, or ETB shenanigans.

[powerhawk]

I'm surprised you say matter reshaper is not good anymore. Maybe it's just the online metagame, but it's been insane for me. Online there is a ton of 4c control, for which matter reshaper is one of the cards I want most; it absolutely hoses liliana and edict. I also have found it to play out better against delver than you might expect. The conventional list has been performing quite well.

[Soulfly77]

Hello all, long time lurking...

Is this a sign of rebirth (https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/736209#paper) ?

For the reshaper, i think we don't have enough valuable targets (exept Lands ans Mimics).
We don't want Chalice, Endless One, Jitte is in SB now...

My 2 cts to Reshape ^^

[Hopo]

For the reshaper, i think we don't have enough valuable targets (exept Lands ans Mimics).
We don't want Chalice, Endless One, Jitte is in SB now...


It's not about the targets, it's about keeping up with cards despite losing a creature. Sometimes you get lucky and net a landdrop/creature/SB card but that's more of a bonus. You always want to draw Chalice, Endless one etc. so I don't understand why you list those as downsides.

[Soulfly77]

In fact, the trigger is the Value of the Reshaper for you (Free Draw and possible ETB). I understand and i am ok with you.

That i regreted in my previous post is an underoptimised trigger in the pack, That's all.

[Cave]

Reshaper never flips into anything good (except for the occasional Jitte and the fact that, iirc, you can flip a land without having to sac your city) and the grinding value provided by card advantage against a 2x Lilly in one deck in the whole format metagame is not enough to justify a 4-of in the build. I mean, I know Reshaper is a good card, but imho not good enough for a stompy deck.
Eldrazi Skyspawner is just as good against liliana, is good against edict, carries equipments better, trades with delver, resolves stall situations, fixes your mana, wakes you up in the morning with cuddles and kisses. It's the perfect girlfriend for TKS and Smasher.
Displacer, on the other hand, is just too strong.
I'm pretty sold on these two right now.

[Barook]

https://i.redd.it/2cny8lyx08hz.png

A Cavern of Souls without the uncounterability - I could see it replacing Painlands in colored Eldrazi lists.

I like it.

[Cave]

https://i.redd.it/2cny8lyx08hz.png

A Cavern of Souls without the uncounterability - I could see it replacing Painlands in colored Eldrazi lists.

I like it.

Not bad! However, consider that playing painlands and regular duals also gives you access to colored and non-eldrazi sideboard.

[Barook]

Not bad! However, consider that playing painlands and regular duals also gives you access to colored and non-eldrazi sideboard.
But then again, how often are you actually running colored non-Eldrazi cards? Even with regular mana lands, the low count of actual colored mana sources makes it rather iffy to cast them. Otherwise, I'd be rocking RIP and Containment Priest all day long.

With another playset of multicolor Eldrazi lands, we might have reached a critical mass now (Cavern, Crossroads, Territory) where it's feasible to go tri-color - Displacer, Skyspawner, then either black for Wasteland Strangler or Red for Obligator. Mox Diamond would probably be necessary to top it off since Lotus Petal isn't a reliable mana source.

[Cave]

But then again, how often are you actually running colored non-Eldrazi cards? Even with regular mana lands, the low count of actual colored mana sources makes it rather iffy to cast them. Otherwise, I'd be rocking RIP and Containment Priest all day long.

It's exactly what i'm doing right now, 2 Priest and 2-3 Rip. Not really that iffy, I love it actually. One colored mana source is enough to push all my threats, and nobody actually choses to deny me colors, they still prefer to destroy 2 mana lands.

[GreatWhale]

But then again, how often are you actually running colored non-Eldrazi cards? Even with regular mana lands, the low count of actual colored mana sources makes it rather iffy to cast them. Otherwise, I'd be rocking RIP and Containment Priest all day long.

With another playset of multicolor Eldrazi lands, we might have reached a critical mass now (Cavern, Crossroads, Territory) where it's feasible to go tri-color - Displacer, Skyspawner, then either black for Wasteland Strangler or Red for Obligator. Mox Diamond would probably be necessary to top it off since Lotus Petal isn't a reliable mana source.

Unclaimed Territories does look really good. I'm most interested in running World Breaker on the top end of Colorless before going 3 color, but I could see Grixis Eldrazi being a thing with a more reliable manabase.

[SquadronHawk]

I would love for a tri-colored variant to be viable, but I recall CVM not doing so great with this deck (http://www.starcitygames.com/events/coverage/jeskai_eldrazi_with_chris_vanm.html) at an SCG open last year. He used Aether Hub for his third tri-land; is Unclaimed Territory really that much better here?

On the other hand, with the Miracles change, the meta has shifted, so maybe it's worth a second look anyway?

[Cave]

Unclaimed Territories does look really good. I'm most interested in running World Breaker on the top end of Colorless before going 3 color, but I could see Grixis Eldrazi being a thing with a more reliable manabase.

I've seen people playing that thing and I can't help thinking it will sit in your hand uncastable in too many many matchups.


I would love for a tri-colored variant to be viable, but I recall CVM not doing so great with this deck (http://www.starcitygames.com/events/coverage/jeskai_eldrazi_with_chris_vanm.html) at an SCG open last year. He used Aether Hub for his third tri-land; is Unclaimed Territory really that much better here?

On the other hand, with the Miracles change, the meta has shifted, so maybe it's worth a second look anyway?

Always having access to permanent colored mana is better than having access to oneshot colored mana I guess. That's about it. It might matter a lot in longer games, which tend to happen because this metagame has plenty of tools to deal with eldrazi. Forgetting manabase, that list has various problems imho. Not playing Skyspawner is a mistake, definitely too strong especially with low land count and no SSG; Drowner is underwhelming if you don't have displacer in play; thorn with 9 other noncreature spells is kinda meh; also, not a fan of obligator. If a third color has to happen, I think it should really be black for Strangler, the first reason being it's ability triggers ETB and not when you cast it, making it really better with displacer.

[P210]

Strangler sounds good, but how does the deck ensure to have exiled cards, owned by opponend, available?

[Cave]

Strangler sounds good, but how does the deck ensure to have exiled cards, owned by opponend, available?

You don't. Most decks do that on their own via drs/fow/scm/frog/moxes/guides. I bet one could play a couple stranglers and be ok with it. It's sketchy at its best, but I don't really think Obligator is gonna help more.

In alternative, there's Bearer of Silence, but that dude is as situational as Strangler, if not more, because pyromancer and mentor make tokens and D/T is full of trash creatures that can be sacked with little to no harm (moms/sfms that have been activated/recruiter...).

If I can add something to the discussion, this metagame is perfect to up our Warping Wail count up to 3/75 or even 4/75. Lot's of small threats and huge sorceries to counter, plus the occasional chumpblock on angler winning the game.

[P210]

Mh, i wouldn't count on my opponend to do the exiling part for me. But yes, there are situations where that could work, probably fow and drs being the most common.
Plus Thought-Knot and Warping Wail can exile stuff, anything else?
So probably esper for Displacer, Skyspawner and maybe Strangler...?

Im not a fan of Bearer of Silence, since Temple / Eye dont help to pay for his triggeret ability and he can't block delver...

[Cave]

Mh, i wouldn't count on my opponend to do the exiling part for me. But yes, there are situations where that could work, probably fow and drs being the most common.
Plus Thought-Knot and Warping Wail can exile stuff, anything else?
So probably esper for Displacer, Skyspawner and maybe Strangler...?

Im not a fan of Bearer of Silence, since Temple / Eye dont help to pay for his triggeret ability and he can't block delver...

My question is, given that a third color is possible, do we really need to?
I'm pretty convinced bicolor, and especially Azorius, is pretty solid right now. You can cut SSG and Reshaper with little to no harm and play two better eldrazi cards. Adding further colors would require cutting endless ones, mimics, tks's, smashers endbringers or ballistas. I'm not really into that.

[fluuu]

My question is, given that a third color is possible, do we really need to?
I'm pretty convinced bicolor, and especially Azorius, is pretty solid right now. You can cut SSG and Reshaper with little to no harm and play two better eldrazi cards. Adding further colors would require cutting endless ones, mimics, tks's, smashers endbringers or ballistas. I'm not really into that.

which is actually considered the standard list? Can someone post it?

Thanks

[Cave]

which is actually considered the standard list? Can someone post it?

Thanks

Colorless is still considered to be the standard list. Most list who place, mainly online, are very close to this.


(25)
4 Eye of Ugin
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Ancient Tomb
3 Wasteland
3 Mishra's Factory
2 City of Traitors
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth

(25)
4 Endless One
4 Eldrazi Mimic
4 Matter Reshaper
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
3 Simian Spirit Guide
2 Endbringer

(10)
4 Chalice of the Void
2 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Warping Wail
2 Dismember
-----
4 Leyline of the Void
4 Thorn of Amethyst
2 Pithing Needle
2 Ratchet Bomb
2 All is Dust
1 Karakas

I know this by heart, lol. If you're talking about UW Eldrazi, I have this sleeved right now.


(25)
4 Eye of Ugin
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Tundra
3 Adarkar Wastes
2 City of Traitors

(25)
4 Endless One
4 Eldrazi Mimic
4 Eldrazi Skyspawner
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
3 Eldrazi Displacer
2 Endbringer

(10)
4 Chalice of the Void
2 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Warping Wail
2 Sword of Fire and Ice
-----
3 Rest in Peace
3 Thorn of Amethyst
2 Pithing Needle
2 Ratchet Bomb
2 Containment Priest
1 Warping Wail
1 All is Dust
1 Karakas

Notes:
-Sophias are a test.
-Endbringer is still better than Drowner of Hope, even in a UW shell. The displacer combo is really too fancy to be realistic.
-All is Dust has been trash for me, I had it 2x md and it sucked, especially vs Taxes. Dismember was almost as bad, considering some of the most played decks have an infernal clock.
-Displacer is mana intensive, therefore 3x.
-Skyspawner is a god, especially with 4-of equipments md.
-White makes your SB bonkers, and 11 colored lands for priest are enough. 7 for rip is still ok (70% ish to see one of 'em in first 8 cards)
-In general, 11 mana sources are enough for 7 colored eldrazi, especially because you only need one colored land to cast all of your drops. I want to point out that the deck is absolutely not more unstable than a regular colorless list. Some hands are incredible, some hands are shit, welcome to Stompy Decks. It's really comparable to a standard list, it just has better creatures and worse lands (cuz of no wasteland/factory). I'd say it's a bit less explosive and a bit more reliable. I don't know, I liked it a lot so far.
-I can understand Tundras are a no-no for some people (I have them since 2006-ish so i don't know), I think the new Cavern is fine, but you have to drop Priest and Rip.
[Edit: I'm also pretty curious about Heirloom Blade. Probably the card is just as bad as I am, but you never know. Never running out of creatures looks good, so does +3/+1 for that mana cost. 4/2 sackable scions for free tutors seems fun.]

[Manipulato]

Hey guys,
a BW Eldrazi list Top 4ed at MKM Series Hamburg yesterday, over 300+ players at the mainevent!

Eldrazi Displacer, Karakas & Thorns MD are surely a consession to the dominance of Sneak Show and Reanimator, or combo decks in general...Really interesting list tbh.

I think Unclaimed Territory from Ixalan makes splash colors like W/BW/UW more solid than before because you dont get damage like with the painlands...

He only pointed out that he will cut the Golems from the SB because they underperformed.

MAIN DECK:
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2 Karakas
3 Eye of Ugin
2 Wasteland
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Ancient Tomb
2 City of Traitors
4 Eldrazi Temple
3 Caves of Koilos

4 Eldrazi Mimic
4 Eldrazi Displacer
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
2 Endbringer
4 Endless One

4 Chalice of the Void
4 Thorn of Amethyst
2 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Warping Wail
2 Dismember

SIDEBOARD:
2 Bearer of Silence
4 Faerie Macabre
3 Precursor Golem
1 Endbringer
2 Pithing Needle
2 Ratched Bomb
1 All is Dust

http://series.magiccardmarket.eu/coverage-mkm-series-hamburg-2017-legacy/

[say no to scurvy]

Hey guys,
a BW Eldrazi list Top 4ed at MKM Series Hamburg yesterday, over 300+ players at the mainevent!

Eldrazi Displacer, Karakas & Thorns MD are surely a consession to the dominance of Sneak Show and Reanimator, or combo decks in general...Really interesting list tbh.

I think Unclaimed Territory from Ixalan makes splash colors like W/BW/UW more solid than before because you dont get damage like with the painlands...

MAIN DECK:
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2 Karakas
3 Eye of Ugin
2 Wasteland
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Ancient Tomb
2 City of Traitors
4 Eldrazi Temple
3 Caves of Koilos

4 Eldrazi Mimic
4 Eldrazi Displacer
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
2 Endbringer
4 Endless One

4 Chalice of the Void
4 Thorn of Amethyst
2 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Warping Wail
2 Dismember

SIDEBOARD:
2 Bearer of Silence
4 Faerie Macabre
3 Precursor Golem
1 Endbringer
2 Pithing Needle
2 Ratched Bomb
1 All is Dust

http://series.magiccardmarket.eu/coverage-mkm-series-hamburg-2017-legacy/

I wonder how that bearer of silence worked out. Surely it can't be superior to containment priest + displacer, unless you're facing THAT many TNNs.

[Cave]

Territory looks like an upgrade for this particular list. Of course, if you wanna play rip and priest, either Caves of Koilos or Scrubland are still the best option.
I think the main feature of this list are the 4 thorns, which is an interesting choice. Also, no mimics or ssg.

[Manipulato]

Territory looks like an upgrade for this particular list. Of course, if you wanna play rip and priest, either Caves of Koilos or Scrubland are still the best option.
I think the main feature of this list are the 4 thorns, which is an interesting choice. Also, no mimics or ssg.

The list has 4 Mimics in it. I think I would prefer a manabase like this for upcoming W or UW lists:

4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Eldrazi Temple
3 Eye of Ugin
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Unclaimed Territory
2 Karakas/Adarkar Wastes (If you play Skyspawner)

I wouldnt play any colored spells, just colored creatures because casting spells is super unconsitant and RIP gives not really much to the deck in my opinion. Cavern/Terrritory on humans or 2 Karakas can also cast priest which are already 10 sources, this should be enough to cast the white dudes consistantly.

[Cave]

The list has 4 Mimics in it.

LOL! My bad, it was veeery late in the night :tongue: I obviously meant reshaper (also read my posts in this thread against ssg and reshaper).

I think I would prefer a manabase like this for upcoming W or UW lists:


4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Eldrazi Temple
3 Eye of Ugin
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Unclaimed Territory
2 Karakas/Adarkar Wastes (If you play Skyspawner)

I wouldnt play any colored spells, just colored creatures because casting spells is super unconsitant and RIP gives not really much to the deck in my opinion. Cavern/Terrritory on humans or 2 Karakas can also cast priest which are already 10 sources, this should be enough to cast the white dudes consistantly.

If you just play 2-3 rips, which by the way are a complete nuke in some matchups, you can get away with 7-8 white sources, guaranteed. But of course you don't have to.
If you play priest you definitely have more options since your choices are good at casting creatures, but that's not mandatory either.
I find your manabase reasonable but i don't really like 4 cities. I'd play 4 eyes and at least one Urborg, especially when you only play displacer and maybe a couple of bearers in the sideboard, because Urborg gets better and better the fewer colors you play.

[Manipulato]

LOL! My bad, it was veeery late in the night :tongue: I obviously meant reshaper (also read my posts in this thread against ssg and reshaper).

I think I would prefer a manabase like this for upcoming W or UW lists:



If you just play 2-3 rips, which by the way are a complete nuke in some matchups, you can get away with 7-8 white sources, guaranteed. But of course you don't have to.
If you play priest you definitely have more options since your choices are good at casting creatures, but that's not mandatory either.
I find your manabase reasonable but i don't really like 4 cities. I'd play 4 eyes and at least one Urborg, especially when you only play displacer and maybe a couple of bearers in the sideboard, because Urborg gets better and better the fewer colors you play.

Dont get me wrong, RIP is of course a super powerful card by its own and I would defenetly play it in other white decks but it´s just so unconsistent in this deck and I dont want to draw dead cards in this deck. Vs decks where a GY hate effect is needed the most RIP might just be to slow (BR Reanimator/Dredge for example) even if its really good vs TA, Lands or 4c Czech Pile...

I´m personally also not a fan of SSG in this deck tbh, I think its a great card in Moon Stompy but not so much in this deck...It´s a double edged sword because it helps coming out of the whole with fast openings but also on the other side increases the possibility of drawing shitty air from the top after T3 or whatever...

For me the ammount of CoT and Eyes depend on the list you play, if you dont play SSG I think 4 citys are more reasonable because it increases the chance for a T1 chalice, if you play Walking Ballista (Like me) it´s really needed because Eye does nothing for ballista...
In a list with 3-4 SSG and no Ballista´s it´s totally fine to run 2-3 CoT for sure...

My current list for reference:

26 Creatures
4 Eldrazi Mimic
4 Matter Reshaper
4 Endless One
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
4 Walking Ballista
2 Endbringer

10 Spells
4 Chalice of the Void

4 Warping Wail
2 Umezawas Jitte

24 Lands
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Eldrazi Temple
3 Eye of Ugin
4 Cavern of Souls
3 Wasteland
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yagmoth

Sideboard:
4 Leyline of the Void
4 Thorn of Amethyst
3 Ratchet Bomb
2 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Karakas/All is dust (Not sure atm)

This list looks very different from the usual ones I have seen but its all in a testing phase and I think in the current meta with lots of DnT, Delver, Elves AND Baleful Strixes around it cant be that wrong to run the Ballistas, maybe not the full 4 but what should I say, those are just really powerful and the reason I play 4 CoT.

4 Warping Wail are also unusual but I really like the flexibility this card gives us because it´s just a solid card vs combo with countering a Show&Tell, Infernal Tutor, discard spell, Reanimate, Exhume or whatever and is on the other side a hard removal for every creature outside of Goyf, Leovold, Angler or Eldrazis...It also can work as a "SSG" EOT and helps vs screwing or oposing Wastelands in a emergancy case...
Not sure though if a 2/2 split with Dismember would be better but we will see...

I think I will play a similar list in 2 weeks on a middle sized turney, we will see how it goes...

What do you guys think about that change?

[LewisCBR]

Heyo, i see a lot of lists with Pithing Needles in the board, what is it there for? Just for the Lands matchup? I dont like the tension between it and Chalice, so i play a few Revokers instead, but yeah, you cant revoke Thespian's Stage. I'm curious where else Needle might be better than Revoker.

If i played with Needle, i'm not sure i'd bring it in vs decks like D&T to name something like Vials. I suppose it could name Wasteland, though... im typically not a big fan of diluting the beat down plan too much, though, which is why a card like Revoker makes sense to me.

As it is, i feel like my board is too good vs Storm, so i'm willing to shave down to 3 Thorns, but cant seem to find a suitable replacement card.

Lastly, All is Dust. What matchups do you like to bring this card in for? Is it worth having 2?

I got a 5-0 (10-0 in games, the perfect league!) with this bad boy yesterday (: https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/769578#online

[Manipulato]

Heyo, i see a lot of lists with Pithing Needles in the board, what is it there for? Just for the Lands matchup? I dont like the tension between it and Chalice, so i play a few Revokers instead, but yeah, you cant revoke Thespian's Stage. I'm curious where else Needle might be better than Revoker.

If i played with Needle, i'm not sure i'd bring it in vs decks like D&T to name something like Vials. I suppose it could name Wasteland, though... im typically not a big fan of diluting the beat down plan too much, though, which is why a card like Revoker makes sense to me.

As it is, i feel like my board is too good vs Storm, so i'm willing to shave down to 3 Thorns, but cant seem to find a suitable replacement card.

Lastly, All is Dust. What matchups do you like to bring this card in for? Is it worth having 2?

I got a 5-0 (10-0 in games, the perfect league!) with this bad boy yesterday (: https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/mtgo-standings/competitive-legacy-constructed-league-2017-09-24

Congratz!

I'm also trying a 1/1 configuration with Karakas, what do you think about this? Is it really needed vs Reanimator & Sneak Show?
Whats the reason for running zero Warping Wails? I think the card is very good in the current meta and very flexible...
I'm really thinking about cutting the 2 Dismember for WW because the 4 life are a lot especially if paired with Tomb activations. Most of the dudes in Legacy also get killed by WW...
Dont say that Dismember is bad but I want to run the optimal build in this Meta.

[LewisCBR]

Congratz!

I'm also trying a 1/1 configuration with Karakas, what do you think about this? Is it really needed vs Reanimator & Sneak Show?
Whats the reason for running zero Warping Wails? I think the card is very good in the current meta and very flexible...
I'm really thinking about cutting the 2 Dismember for WW because the 4 life are a lot especially if paired with Tomb activations. Most of the dudes in Legacy also get killed by WW...
Dont say that Dismember is bad but I want to run the optimal build in this Meta.

There are a lot of Turbo Depths decks online, which is where i like Karakas best, against Merritt Lage. Sneak and Show is on the decline, so it would be reasonable to cut Karakas altogether, but i like having it, just in case. Karakas is nice against Reanimator, but we are mulling to a Leyline most of the time, which is obviously more effective. I'm not sure if another utility land, like a 3rd Wasteland, would make that big of an impact, so i'm sticking with Karakas for now. Also, there is a lot of Leovold running around, and while your opponent draws a card if you target Leo with Karakas, sometimes the tempo of bouncing him out of your way is all you need, after you bounce it you can then take it with TKS, too.

I'm actually not high on Warping Wail right now. As i said earlier, Storm is already one of this decks best matchups, so that mode isnt all that great, and besides Delvers, i dont really care about killing X/1's. Dismember kills Anglers and Goyfs, which are the most problematic creatures vs this deck. I'd rather not have to choose to hold up Wail, or play another creature. Wail would be much better if only it was a tribal spell that could be played off a Temple.

I dont know, those are my thoughts. But, if youre worried about tuning to the current meta, then i think you definitely need Dismember to kill Anglers. I know the 4 life sucks, but its needed. Right now, my main deck is expecting a fair deck, where Dismember, Jitte, and Ballista are very good. Then, i side into the combo hate if need be. Wail in the main just feels weak to me right now, for some reason. I cut it from the 75 a few months ago and havnt missed it at all.

[MGB]

There are a lot of Turbo Depths decks online, which is where i like Karakas best, against Merritt Lage. Sneak and Show is on the decline, so it would be reasonable to cut Karakas altogether, but i like having it, just in case. Karakas is nice against Reanimator, but we are mulling to a Leyline most of the time, which is obviously more effective. I'm not sure if another utility land, like a 3rd Wasteland, would make that big of an impact, so i'm sticking with Karakas for now. Also, there is a lot of Leovold running around, and while your opponent draws a card if you target Leo with Karakas, sometimes the tempo of bouncing him out of your way is all you need, after you bounce it you can then take it with TKS, too.

I'm actually not high on Warping Wail right now. As i said earlier, Storm is already one of this decks best matchups, so that mode isnt all that great, and besides Delvers, i dont really care about killing X/1's. Dismember kills Anglers and Goyfs, which are the most problematic creatures vs this deck. I'd rather not have to choose to hold up Wail, or play another creature. Wail would be much better if only it was a tribal spell that could be played off a Temple.

I dont know, those are my thoughts. But, if youre worried about tuning to the current meta, then i think you definitely need Dismember to kill Anglers. I know the 4 life sucks, but its needed. Right now, my main deck is expecting a fair deck, where Dismember, Jitte, and Ballista are very good. Then, i side into the combo hate if need be. Wail in the main just feels weak to me right now, for some reason. I cut it from the 75 a few months ago and havnt missed it at all.

- Warping wail is really good against Pyromancer and DRS as well - two of the best creatures in the format.

- 4 Wasteland is a must IMHO because this is a resource denial / tempo deck at its core. Playing 4 Thorn in the sb complements the 4 Wastelands very well, and of course Wasteland is just excellent utility against any problematic land.

[LewisCBR]

- Warping wail is really good against Pyromancer and DRS as well - two of the best creatures in the format.

- 4 Wasteland is a must IMHO because this is a resource denial / tempo deck at its core. Playing 4 Thorn in the sb complements the 4 Wastelands very well, and of course Wasteland is just excellent utility against any problematic land.

Hey Pathy, did you play Eldrazi Stompy today on the Challenge? I see you made top 8, so well done.

I sort of disagree with both your statements, though. Stompy is one of the few decks that can ignore a turn 1 DRS. If they get one, well shucks, but i dont go out of my way to kill it, normally. I'd rather develop my board and stay on curve. As far as YP goes, Dismember and Ballista have been fine for me, for answers, if YP starts to get out of control.

When i draw my Wastelands, i find myself needing the mana more so than actually using it on my opponent, most of the time. The 2 i have in my deck are there for emergency purposes only, while i again try to stay on curve. The best thing this deck can be doing is play a 2 drop, 4 drop, and 5/6 drop on turns 1, 2, and 3, respectively, and not stop and pause so you can Wasteland or Warping Wail something.

Its interesting to see such different philosophies on something like a Stompy deck. Its also nice to see that either can work.

[MGB]

Hey Pathy, did you play Eldrazi Stompy today on the Challenge? I see you made top 8, so well done.

I sort of disagree with both your statements, though. Stompy is one of the few decks that can ignore a turn 1 DRS. If they get one, well shucks, but i dont go out of my way to kill it, normally. I'd rather develop my board and stay on curve. As far as YP goes, Dismember and Ballista have been fine for me, for answers, if YP starts to get out of control.

When i draw my Wastelands, i find myself needing the mana more so than actually using it on my opponent, most of the time. The 2 i have in my deck are there for emergency purposes only, while i again try to stay on curve. The best thing this deck can be doing is play a 2 drop, 4 drop, and 5/6 drop on turns 1, 2, and 3, respectively, and not stop and pause so you can Wasteland or Warping Wail something.

Its interesting to see such different philosophies on something like a Stompy deck. Its also nice to see that either can work.

- I played Eldrazi Ramp with Endbringers - more of a midrange hybrid between MUD and Eldrazi.

- Sure, Dismember and Ballista help against YP but YP is so good of a creature that you need to kill him with extreme prejudice ASAP in my opinion. I want as many answers as reasonably possible to YP. I play at least 2 Warping Wail MD and 2 more in the SB in Eldrazi Stompy (the aggro version of course).

- When I draw Wastelands sometimes I use them for mana but often (I mean, quite often) you come to a point in the game where you have enough mana to cast your dudes and can spare a land... Wastelanding a single colored source can sometimes mean the difference between your opponent being able to cast his Jace and not being able to cast his Jace before you kill him.

- I know this deck wants to deploy its threats on curve more than anything else but I like having the flexibility to do otherwise in certain situations. That's why I wouldn't go more than 2 Warping Wail MD but I like having the option of playing 4 Warping Wail post-board against certain decks like Storm or YP decks, and I like having the option of Wastelanding as often as possible if I have already deployed my threats or if I deem an opposing land (like a Dark Depths) too dangerous to let sit in play while I deploy Eldrazi.

[MGB]

On a different note, has anyone ever explored Serum Powder + Eternal Scourge in this deck in Legacy?

There's somebody playing a Serum Powder+Eternal Scourge Eldrazi aggro deck in Modern and it looks interesting enough in that format, but I was thinking that it might be even better in Legacy where you could mulligan aggressively into Chalice (even better in this format) or Eye of Ugin, based on the matchup needs.

Here's the modern decklist:

https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/769547#paper

[Qernavak]

Thread is alive! yay!

With Ixalan entering, I may switch to Legacy again.

Haven't played much since GP Vegas, where I piloted UB Eldrazi to Day-2 after winning one trial. The updated UB list looks like this:

//Creatures
4 Eldrazi Mimic
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
4 Eldrazi Skyspawner
4 Bearer of Silence
4 Walking Ballista
2 Oblivion Sower

//Spells
3 Lotus Petal
2 Umezawa's Jitte
4 Chalice of the Void

//Lands
2 Unclaimed Territory
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Underground River
3 Eye of Ugin
4 Eldrazi Temple
2 City of Traitors
4 Ancient Tomb
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Wastes


//Sideboard
3 All Is Dust
3 Sorcerous Spyglass
3 Thorn of Amethyst
2 Ratchet Bomb
4 Faerie Macabre

For what it's worth, here were my matchups and outcomes from the GP Vegas (with a slightly different version of the above).

Trial:
R1: W vs. Burn
R2: W vs. Tribal Knights
R3: W vs. Grixis Delver
R4: W vs. UB Reanimator

GP Vegas
Day 1:
R1,R2: Bye
R3: W vs. Grixis Pyro
R4: DRAW vs. Aggro Loam (we went to time and I had the win on hand, but opp thought he also had a good chance... this came to hunt me later)
R5: L vs. Lands
R6: L vs. Aggro Loam
R7: W vs. Lands
R8: W vs. Deathblade
R9: W vs. Elves!

Day 2:
R10: W vs. Miracles
R11: W vs. Red Stompy
R12: L vs. BUG Control
R13: L vs. Czech Pile (drop)


Anyways, I think it's a good deck to play, but you need lots of patience, and so I understand why it may be an odd fit for Eldrazi players :)

[GreatWhale]

I've been doing pretty well with Eldrazi lately, went 4-0 and then 4-1 at two different locals. Beating Burn, Grixis Delver x2 and Aluren at one and beating the mirror, Tron, Storm and UB Reanimator at the other, only losing to DnT by my own punt.

I'm playing pretty standard Colorless with All is Dust in the main and side, and a maindeck Waste.

Has anyone tested Sorceror's Spyglass? Seems perfect, I was always playing Revoker instead of Needle but I'm thinking of taking out a couple Thorn of Amethyst from the sideboard for the Spyglass. The Needle effect seems like its always good, with so many Planeswalkers and Equipment around and Thorn seems like it helps in match ups we already are favored in.

[DavidHernandez]

Spyglass is interesting. Information is always good, and it can hit anything. The downside is the opponent may not be holding the thing you need to hose, and you can't randomly name it. I think Needle is better, but you probably play Chalice. Revoker can't hit lands, so I see where you're going, but Spyglass seems too situational. Revoker may be the best option.

Dave

[sadface]

The downside is the opponent may not be holding the thing you need to hose, and you can't randomly name it.

Not sure what you mean by this. You can name a card that is not in their hand.

[DavidHernandez]

Not sure what you mean by this. You can name a card that is not in their hand.

Dude. I totally misread the card, as you pointed out. Sorry to add ridiculous incorrect fluff to the thread.

As Sorcerous Spyglass enters the battlefield, look at an opponent's hand, then choose any card name.
Activated abilities of sources with the chosen name can't be activated unless they're mana abilities.

I thought you were to look at the hand and name one of the cards in their hand. I don't like the wording in Spyglass! LOL. Anyway, now I think this card has huge potential!

Dave

[Hopo]

What it comes to Sorcerous Spyglass, this very cool list (http://www.hareruyamtg.com/en/k/kD35839S/) got 3rd/195 last weekend in Japan. I took it for a spin yesterday finishing 4-0.

I think the more interesting card here is still Grim Monolith. It's an overlooked piece of acceleration which conveniently also gives you some game against Blood Moons.

[Qernavak]

What it comes to Sorcerous Spyglass, this very cool list (http://www.hareruyamtg.com/en/k/kD35839S/) got 3rd/195 last weekend in Japan. I took it for a spin yesterday finishing 4-0.

I think the more interesting card here is still Grim Monolith. It's an overlooked piece of acceleration which conveniently also gives you some game against Blood Moons.

That is a cool list!

Although I question the main deck Sorcerous Spyglass. I have tested intensively with it maindeck, and it's just not that powerful. Yes, there are some games where you go turn 1 SS and name their fetchland and they lose. But those games are uncommon. In many matchups, they don't do much. I see it more as of metagame choice, if you expect to face lots of DRS/Jace decks, then it's pretty good. Otherwise you're better off with increasing your aggressive position.

I tested a lot with Grim Monolith last year, when Painter was at its peak. This is also a metagame choice, specifically to combat Blood Moon decks. It's pretty week vs. fast aggressive decks, like Delver, because it dilutes your number of threats. You can see the deck is built to withstand Blood Moon by the 3 maindeck Oblivion Sower. Usually this slot is occupied by either Endbringer or OSower, depending on the metagame.

***

Changing topics, after a few 4-1s and 3-2s (and one 0-3) leagues, I finally was able to score one 5-0 with UB Eldrazi. The list is here:

//Creatures (24)
4 Matter Reshaper
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
4 Eldrazi Skyspawner
3 Bearer of Silence
4 Walking Ballista
1 Oblivion Sower

//Spells (11)
3 Lotus Petal
2 Umezawa's Jitte
4 Chalice of the Void
1 All is Dust
1 Warping Wail


//Lands (25)
2 Unclaimed Territory
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Underground River
3 Eye of Ugin
4 Eldrazi Temple
2 City of Traitors
4 Ancient Tomb
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Wastes


//Sideboard (15)
1 All Is Dust
2 Spine of Ish Sah
3 Sorcerous Spyglass
3 Thorn of Amethyst
2 Ratchet Bomb
4 Leyline of the Void

Round 1: 2-1 vs. Miracles
Round 2: 2-0 vs. Storm
Round 3: 2-1 vs. Czech Pile
Round 4: 2-1 vs. Sneak and Show
Round 5: 2-0 vs. Grixis Delver


I feel positive about the last two weeks of testing, win rate is around 65%. And this last league was all vs. high performing decks.

The biggest notable change is that I dropped Eldrazi Mimic from the list. Mimic is just not that good anymore, and this is especially true in the UB version. There are too many answers (Fatal Push) and blockers (Baleful Strix) being played right now. If we want to compete with Czech pile and alike, we need our creatures to provide extra value. All of the creatures in the list offer a type of "2 for 1" effect. It's a lot more profitable to trade the Reshapers or Skyspawners with Strix to open up space for the bigger creatures. Bearer is amazingly good, but we usually don't want too many in our opening hand, and so I cut them down to 3.

My biggest mistake was not having 4x Unclaimed Territory and 2x Underground River. Initially I thought having the river would allow me to hard cast Leylines; but the reality is that I don't want to be in that position, because if I'm bringing Leylines, I want to try to mulligan to them. This realization led me to now understand that having a 5-color Eldrazi deck is 100% viable. For example:

//Creatures (24)
4 Matter Reshaper
4 Thought-Knot Seer
2 Reality Smasher
4 Eldrazi Skyspawner
2 Bearer of Silence
4 Walking Ballista
1 Oblivion Sower
2 Eldrazi Obligator
1 Eldrazi Displacer

//Spells (11)
3 Lotus Petal
2 Umezawa's Jitte
4 Chalice of the Void
1 All is Dust
1 Warping Wail


//Lands (25)
4 Unclaimed Territory
4 Cavern of Souls
2 Corrupted Crossroads
3 Eye of Ugin
4 Eldrazi Temple
2 City of Traitors
4 Ancient Tomb
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Wastes


//Sideboard (15)
1 All Is Dust
2 Spine of Ish Sah
2 Sorcerous Spyglass
1 World Breaker
3 Thorn of Amethyst
2 Ratchet Bomb
4 Leyline of the Void


I have not been a big fan of Eldrazi displacer because all the mana that it needs to consume in order to be effective, and it doesn't really offer a true "2 for 1", but I wouldn't mind it as a 1-of. Likewise, having access to Obligator can help sneaking out of tight situations, from a blocking Griselbrand to a Baleful Strix. World Breaker is a nice Creeping Mold with a huge body attached to it.

For now I will keep focusing and tuning the UB version and on the side develop the 5 or 4 color list a bit more.

[Hopo]

What it comes to Sorcerous Spyglass, this very cool list (http://www.hareruyamtg.com/en/k/kD35839S/) got 3rd/195 last weekend in Japan. I took it for a spin yesterday finishing 4-0.

I think the more interesting card here is still Grim Monolith. It's an overlooked piece of acceleration which conveniently also gives you some game against Blood Moons.

I top8'd a 40+ player tournament today with the list. I really like those 6-drops, they did some heavy work.

EDIT:

R1 2-0 Dragon Stompy
R2 2-1 Aggro Loam
R3 2-0 Maverick
R4 1-1 Maverick
R5 0-2 Death and taxes
R6 2-1 Shardless Bug
Quarters 1-2 Maverick

[shawn_low]

Changing topics, after a few 4-1s and 3-2s (and one 0-3) leagues, I finally was able to score one 5-0 with UB Eldrazi. The list is here:
...
The biggest notable change is that I dropped Eldrazi Mimic from the list. Mimic is just not that good anymore, and this is especially true in the UB version. There are too many answers (Fatal Push) and blockers (Baleful Strix) being played right now. If we want to compete with Czech pile and alike, we need our creatures to provide extra value. All of the creatures in the list offer a type of "2 for 1" effect. It's a lot more profitable to trade the Reshapers or Skyspawners with Strix to open up space for the bigger creatures. Bearer is amazingly good, but we usually don't want too many in our opening hand, and so I cut them down to 3.

My biggest mistake was not having 4x Unclaimed Territory and 2x Underground River. Initially I thought having the river would allow me to hard cast Leylines; but the reality is that I don't want to be in that position, because if I'm bringing Leylines, I want to try to mulligan to them. This realization led me to now understand that having a 5-color Eldrazi deck is 100% viable. For example:

//Creatures (24)
4 Matter Reshaper
4 Thought-Knot Seer
2 Reality Smasher
4 Eldrazi Skyspawner
2 Bearer of Silence
4 Walking Ballista
1 Oblivion Sower
2 Eldrazi Obligator
1 Eldrazi Displacer

//Spells (11)
3 Lotus Petal
2 Umezawa's Jitte
4 Chalice of the Void
1 All is Dust
1 Warping Wail


//Lands (25)
4 Unclaimed Territory
4 Cavern of Souls
2 Corrupted Crossroads
3 Eye of Ugin
4 Eldrazi Temple
2 City of Traitors
4 Ancient Tomb
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Wastes


//Sideboard (15)
1 All Is Dust
2 Spine of Ish Sah
2 Sorcerous Spyglass
1 World Breaker
3 Thorn of Amethyst
2 Ratchet Bomb
4 Leyline of the Void

I have not been a big fan of Eldrazi displacer because all the mana that it needs to consume in order to be effective, and it doesn't really offer a true "2 for 1", but I wouldn't mind it as a 1-of. Likewise, having access to Obligator can help sneaking out of tight situations, from a blocking Griselbrand to a Baleful Strix. World Breaker is a nice Creeping Mold with a huge body attached to it.

For now I will keep focusing and tuning the UB version and on the side develop the 5 or 4 color list a bit more.

Congrats on the 5-0 and your continued development with UB Eldrazi. Would love to you develop things further. Couple of questions for you:

1) Why 2 Spine of Ish Sah over more All is Dust in the SB? Budget reasons?
2) How did Sorcerous Spyglass perform for you? I've been sticking to Pithing Needles as you generally board them in G2 and you already know what your opponent is playing so you have a 1 drop Needle vs the Spyglass which drops T2 unless you take 2 from Tomb or such.

Personal reflection:

Unclaimed Territory now makes multi-colour Eldrazi a really viable option. No more taking damage from painlands! Plus the colourless it generates also works with TKS, Smasher, Endbringer etc. A local player here played 4x Unclaimed Territory and 4x CoS with Skyspawners, Displacer and Drowner of Hope to a 3-0 finish last FNM. I 3-0ed with regular colourless Eldrazi facing Nic Fit, Grixis Delver and Elves.

So UB is an option but I've found Bearer of Silence to be hit or miss against some decks (an edict against Elves for example is just not good enough). I like the idea of getting value vs Czech pile but I often find myself boarding out Matter Reshapers in colourless builds. The 3CMC makes it a T2 drop but I'd rather be dropping TKS on T2.

Of the multi-coloured Eldrazi, I think the Displacer is a good one: blinking blockers, Marit Lage, other tokens. Colourless lists splashing for Displacer have done well before. Notably in Europe at the MKM series. This is the most recent list at Hamburg which T4ed: http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=16936&d=304755&f=LE. Note that the list if pre-Ixalan.

I think Eldrazi Stompy is reasonably well placed in the meta at the moment. Looking forward to seeing more development here!

[shawn_low]

I top8'd a 40+ player tournament today with the list. I really like those 6-drops, they did some heavy work.

EDIT:

R1 2-0 Dragon Stompy
R2 2-1 Aggro Loam
R3 2-0 Maverick
R4 1-1 Maverick
R5 0-2 Death and taxes
R6 2-1 Shardless Bug
Quarters 1-2 Maverick

Congrats. How did the MD Spyglass and Monolith work for you?

The Spyglass MD is a neat way to potentially have a T1 play with a Sol Land and shut down stuff like DRS immediately! I'll bet not many people will see that coming.

Monolith seems like a one-shot use as it's less valuable without Voltaic Key in the 75 no?

Might give this build a tweak and spin at the next FNM!

[Hopo]

Congrats. How did the MD Spyglass and Monolith work for you?

The Spyglass MD is a neat way to potentially have a T1 play with a Sol Land and shut down stuff like DRS immediately! I'll bet not many people will see that coming.

Monolith seems like a one-shot use as it's less valuable without Voltaic Key in the 75 no?

Might give this build a tweak and spin at the next FNM!

Spyglass had a few moments, including one t1 blowout. It really deserves it's spot because it answers many problems you might face and buys time to make enough land drops to take over the game. But Grim Monolith is what really makes this deck tick. It makes so many hands keepable, let's you make 6-drops on turn 2 and gives you very reasonable answers to Blood Moon. You don't need Voltaic Key to make Monolith playable. It's typical to fire monolith once to cast a big dude or a couple smaller ones. You can reload it when you have nothing else to do with your mana. If nothing else, untapping Monolith brings you always closer to activating Eye of Ugin.

[shawn_low]

More proof that Eldrazi Stompy is well placed in the meta.

2x in the T8 with one deck taking it down. Both were colourless variants. The main difference is with the SB. The winner played 3x Warping Wail vs 3x Karakas from the other deck.

Decklists here: https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/mtgo-standings/legacy-challenge-2017-10-09

Keep serving up bologanaise!

[Qernavak]

More proof that Eldrazi Stompy is well placed in the meta.

2x in the T8 with one deck taking it down. Both were colourless variants. The main difference is with the SB. The winner played 3x Warping Wail vs 3x Karakas from the other deck.

Decklists here: https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/mtgo-standings/legacy-challenge-2017-10-09

Keep serving up bologanaise!

I love both of these decklists. Tony's is streamlined and clean. Ninjaneer83's almost as streamlined (with subtle differences in the manabase). If I was playing colorless, I would choose Tony's list. I think what makes it even more impressive is the Top 8 matchups: a coin flip and two very close matchups.



Congrats on the 5-0 and your continued development with UB Eldrazi. Would love to you develop things further. Couple of questions for you:

1) Why 2 Spine of Ish Sah over more All is Dust in the SB? Budget reasons?
2) How did Sorcerous Spyglass perform for you? I've been sticking to Pithing Needles as you generally board them in G2 and you already know what your opponent is playing so you have a 1 drop Needle vs the Spyglass which drops T2 unless you take 2 from Tomb or such.



1) Spine is a local metagame choice. I noticed a spike in Sneak and Show, and Spine has been historically an answer that can be used for SnS and Blood Moon -type of matchups. It's a very flexible slot and I number of things can replacement, including ignoring the SnS matchup and concentrating on other decks.
2) Needle has been a good sideboard option, but it always came with the following tension: should I play chalice on 1 and make this needle in my hand obsolete, or should I play needle first and risk not being able to resolve chalice next turn (and/or my opponent resolving a key 1 mana spell). This tension is alleviated to a great degree, because I can always play the chalice on 1 and the SS on the next opportunity. This card is a mainstay in Eldrazi and I am not going back to needles. The bonus "peek" is an underrated advantage that Eldrazi did not have, and plays a role with playing around counterspells, removal, and how to deploy threats.



Personal reflection:

Unclaimed Territory now makes multi-colour Eldrazi a really viable option. No more taking damage from painlands! Plus the colourless it generates also works with TKS, Smasher, Endbringer etc. A local player here played 4x Unclaimed Territory and 4x CoS with Skyspawners, Displacer and Drowner of Hope to a 3-0 finish last FNM. I 3-0ed with regular colourless Eldrazi facing Nic Fit, Grixis Delver and Elves.

So UB is an option but I've found Bearer of Silence to be hit or miss against some decks (an edict against Elves for example is just not good enough). I like the idea of getting value vs Czech pile but I often find myself boarding out Matter Reshapers in colourless builds. The 3CMC makes it a T2 drop but I'd rather be dropping TKS on T2.

Of the multi-coloured Eldrazi, I think the Displacer is a good one: blinking blockers, Marit Lage, other tokens. Colourless lists splashing for Displacer have done well before. Notably in Europe at the MKM series. This is the most recent list at Hamburg which T4ed: http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=16936&d=304755&f=LE. Note that the list if pre-Ixalan.

I think Eldrazi Stompy is reasonably well placed in the meta at the moment. Looking forward to seeing more development here!

Let me give a brief history of the development of the UB version. Back in January/February of 2017 there was a spike on mtgo of Delver/TNN/Stoneforge Mystic/Baleful Strix decks. My win rate, while playing the colorless version, dropped significantly enough that made me reconsider the options. I tried many of the colored versions: W, GW, UR, BW, Jeskai, etc. But, in my anecdotal experience, I was getting similar results.

Consistently, the stronger card (other than chalice) was reality Smasher. It was clear that the evasion was a big big plus in this metagame. I had also been playing Eldrazi bant, so I knew Skyspawner would be good. Eldritch Moon had just come out, so I wanted to try a few cards from there. I also made some silly choices, like Cairn Wanderer (spoiler: does not work well with Eye of Ugin/Eldrazi Temple; bonus: I "almost" went 5-0 with my test deck with 2x Cairn Wanderer, losing in the last round to Manaless dredge because I mulled to zero cards on game 3). Bearer of Silence met some of the criteria I was looking for: had evasion, and gave me answers to TNN. I was very skeptical of it because of its small body, and not being able to block a delver, but also because it arguably requires 4 mana. Played it nevertheless. The last odd choice was Walking Ballista. At this point, WB was not mainstream in legacy Eldrazi, but I saw it in Vintage and Modern and thought it may be worth testing because its ability to deal with unflipped delvers and strix. Other unsuccessful inclusions: Wretched Gryff, Walker of the Wastes, Elder Deep Fiend, Sire of Stagnation.

As I remarked above, the deck very quickly became successful and and had a tremendous run. Bearer was part of that success, but it took my a few games to understand how to take maximum advantage of bearer. It may sound obvious, but the best way was to deploy threats that need to be dealt with (Mimic, TKS, Smasher), then slowly chip away advantage by deploying Ballistas and getting rid of the smaller threats, and then bring Bearer to keep gaining value, and eventually capitalize on it. Of course this formula will vary from case to case, but it applied to most of the scenarios. I included other improvements, like the addition of Emrakul, the Promised End, to combat of the strategies from Miracles (pre-top banning). I had some mild success piloting the UB version, with some results published and some not, but with a greater win rate that I was having with the colorless version (which I was also piloting).

Following the banning of top, the metagame quickly shifted and I had a hard time playing with Eldrazi, being the colorless or the UB version. So I took a break and started to play Modern. Once in a while I would play a Legacy league, and in one occasion 5-0'd another league with the UB version but didn't get published. After modern, I tried Vintage. But Ixalan made me excited again and seeing so many pilots doing well with colorless gives me a lot of hope. And Bearer of Silence is still a very important card, but I think having access to other colors can help diversify the roles that BoS fills.

tl;dr: Bearer can seem weak on its own, but its strength is playing it along with other cards and learning how to time it.

[Manipulato]

Short noob question ^^ Does a casted 5/5 Endless one for example trigger a Eldrazi Mimic up to a 5/5? I heard yes and no and am really unsure now :-/

[fluuu]

Short noob question ^^ Does a casted 5/5 Endless one for example trigger a Eldrazi Mimic up to a 5/5? I heard yes and no and am really unsure now :-/

Yes!

[bonkotsu]

What is the reasoning for cutting down on AiD lately?

[Hopo]

What is the reasoning for cutting down on AiD lately?
Who are you addressing by this vague question?

[bonkotsu]

Who are you addressing by this vague question?

Probably should have elaborated. I have noticed a decline in AiD in the sb on MTGO and other top 8 listings from events at mtgdecks and mtgtop8, whats the reasoning for cutting down to 1 as opposed to 2 or 3?

[darkgh0st]

Less TNNs and doesn't really solve Blood Moon as it is so hard to cast under it. I'm also seeing Ratchet Bombs pick up from 2 to 3.

[MD.Ghost]

The biggest notable change is that I dropped Eldrazi Mimic from the list. Mimic is just not that good anymore, and this is especially true in the UB version. There are too many answers (Fatal Push) and blockers (Baleful Strix) being played right now. If we want to compete with Czech pile and alike, we need our creatures to provide extra value. All of the creatures in the list offer a type of "2 for 1" effect. It's a lot more profitable to trade the Reshapers or Skyspawners with Strix to open up space for the bigger creatures. Bearer is amazingly good, but we usually don't want too many in our opening hand, and so I cut them down to 3.

I have not been a big fan of Eldrazi displacer because all the mana that it needs to consume in order to be effective, and it doesn't really offer a true "2 for 1", but I wouldn't mind it as a 1-of. Likewise, having access to Obligator can help sneaking out of tight situations, from a blocking Griselbrand to a Baleful Strix. World Breaker is a nice Creeping Mold with a huge body attached to it.

For now I will keep focusing and tuning the UB version and on the side develop the 5 or 4 color list a bit more.

First i really like your unique way to brew around with devoid-drazi. I never liked full colorless and always try to sneak in at least Eldrazi Displacer since he keep so many problematic cards in check.

At UBx - Yes Eldrazi Mimic seems not the right one since i figured out that little dude needs a lot of colorless beaters around him with 3 or more power. A build with Bearer and Skyspawner simply has not enough power for Mimic. I like Skyspawner too, but really want to team him up with Eldrazi Displacer and Matter Reshaper to get a good amount of nasty cc3 cards that can generate some advantage. Bearer of Silence also i a sleeper card that always felt uncastable/to slow for colorless Eldrazi Stompy. But most ignore the fact that he is an uncounterable edict with a body. Okay 2/1 "can't block" isnt a huge deal but at least he can carry a little and fly over blockers. Combined with a critical amount of "Removal-Eldrazi" he works good cause you can interact way better with your Opponent and the field isnt full with targets too.

My biggest problem with the Esper-Eldrazi List is, that i feel it needs Lotus Petal/Mox Diamond too which results into more bad topdecks and 3-4 critical slots for deck building. I still tinker around with the list but currently switched back to WB-Drazi.

Mimic is back, cause i also run Endless One and its overall more aggressiv besides additional fast mana. You lose some grinding power (2:1 Skyspawner, Reshaper etc.)

// 60 Maindeck :b::wu:

// 9 Artifact
4 Chalice of the Void
2 Umezawa's Jitte
3 Thorn of Amethyst

// 26 Creature
4 Reality Smasher
4 Thought-Knot Seer
3 Eldrazi Displacer
3 Walking Ballista
3 Bearer of Silence
4 Eldrazi Mimic
3 Endless One
2 Drowner of Hope

// 25 Land
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Unclaimed Territory
3 Eye of Ugin
2 City of Traitors
2 Karakas
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth

// 15 Sideboard
SB: 3 Pithing Needle
SB: 3 Faerie Macabre
SB: 2 Endbringer
SB: 3 Warping Wail
SB: 2 Dismember
SB: 2 All Is Dust

With Displacer, Bearer, Ballista and Drowner (Endbringer Side) you have a good amount of interaction and still a very high body count (to avoid useless topdecks or bad 1:1 trades vs Cantrip-Shells). I currently tried Drowner of Hope over Endbringer. The common Endbringer can be faster (colorless and needs only 3 lands) and have a good kit, but Drowner will instantly affect the field (remove blockers or prevent a deadly attack), works better vs Edict-Effects and can be combined with Displacer too. Sideboard isnt set in Stone, just some slots to tinker and try different ideas. Currently not miss Ratched Bomb.

EDIT

@Qernavak: Thats more a Uwb List developed from your latest list. Currently test Petal over Mox and going down to 24 lands cause Skyspawner (+Displacer) nets mana too and the deck can operate with less mana too. Besides Petal for more 1 Turn Plays, the list is creaturewise less aggressiv than the WB List above (no Mimic+Endless One) and will profit from more grindy battles since it also packs Reshaper or matchups where skyspawner as a flyer really shines. Warping Wail main as a flexible solution, i like that it can be fired of with Eldrazi Scion tokens too which are often ignored from opponents. Sideboard is still the one above but i test Basilisk Collar over Dismember here because the Skyspawner deck is more about control and not fast overrun where you sneak in dismember as removal because life doesnt really matter. But fire of a Dismember with a Scion Token is also a nice move.

// 60 Maindeck :u::wb:

// 9 Artifact
4 Chalice of the Void
2 Umezawa's Jitte
3 Lotus Petal

// 25 Creature
4 Eldrazi Skyspawner
4 Reality Smasher
4 Thought-Knot Seer
3 Eldrazi Displacer
3 Matter Reshaper
3 Walking Ballista
2 Drowner of Hope
2 Bearer of Silence

// 2 Instant
2 Warping Wail

// 24 Land
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Cavern of Souls
2 City of Traitors
4 Eldrazi Temple
3 Eye of Ugin
2 Karakas
4 Unclaimed Territory
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth


// 15 Sideboard
SB: 3 Thorn of Amethyst
SB: 3 Pithing Needle
SB: 2 Basilisk Collar
SB: 3 Faerie Macabre
SB: 2 Endbringer
SB: 2 All Is Dust

[bonkotsu]

Went 8-3 at EW with colorless squids, spyglass is great

[ChrisDissent]

Went 8-3 at EW with colorless squids, spyglass is great

Congratz !! Really nice.
Could you tell us what decks did you face in the swiss ?

[bonkotsu]

Congratz !! Really nice.
Could you tell us what decks did you face in the swiss ?

Interestingly enough I only faced the same deck once.
RD 1 Loss - Turbo Depths
RD 2 Win - Aggro Loam
RD 3 Loss - Food Chain
RD 4 Loss - Infect
RD 5 Win - D & T
RD 6 Win - Czech Pile
RD 7 Win - Maverick
RD 8 Win - Merfolk
RD 9 Win - Esper Deathblade
RD 10 Win - Czech Pile
RD 11 Win - UB Reanimator

[bonkotsu]

Was there a sideboard guide on here?

[LewisCBR]

So, it seems like Spyglass is the new hotness for sideboards. It doesnt run into your Chalices and does a better job than Pithing Needle, i suppose, but my question is why are people not running Phryxian Revoker? I've always favored Revoker over Needle, even before Spyglass was printed, and i dont see a reason to play Spyglass over Revoker now, either.

I dont know, what am i missing? I know Revoker cant name Wasteland, is that really the only reason? The 2/1 body is very relevant, i've found, and I like that Revoker can name mana abilities like LED, Petal, and Food Chain, too.

[MGB]

I hate Spyglass, I think it's overrated.

The information you get isn't really that much of a boon over the 2/1 body that Revoker provides (body for jitte, just beats in general), and if we aren't playing Revokers MD why would we play a Revoker without a body?

[Hopo]

I hate Spyglass, I think it's overrated.

The information you get isn't really that much of a boon.
...
I think this kind of statement neglects the drawbacks of revoker. Revoker is as fragile as a body gets not to mention the inability to snipe fetch lands, utility lands and
Dark depths.

Why sling shit on one or another when you could just evaluate which card serves you better in your scene and go with that? I think revoker is objectively better only against storm so I will implement it to my 75 if I think my chalices and thorns need extra help.

[contra]

I'm running 2 spyglass in my sb for decks with wasteland recursion (I've been running into a ton of ramunap excavators lately) and dark depths combo - both of which I feel eldrazi really struggles with. I'll also bring it in for sneak and show, but those are really the only decks I want them. I also run a 3-1 (sometimes 2-2) split of reshapers/revokers maindeck.

Edit - As I write this spyglass is doing work:
https://imgur.com/aJGRbpf

obviously revoker would be even better in this situation, but like I said - spyglass is primarily for wasteland/thespians stage which are soft spots for this deck.

[ryscott85]

Have any of you guys tried batterskull somewhere in the 75? We can get it out of our hands fairly quickly with sol lands, and it'd help recoup some of the life loss we naturally incur!

[Hopo]

Have any of you guys tried batterskull somewhere in the 75? We can get it out of our hands fairly quickly with sol lands, and it'd help recoup some of the life loss we naturally incur!

It really sounds tempting until you start testing and your lands always seem to be some combination of temple/eye/cavern and then you realize that five fair mana is too much to reach consistently.

[Darkness]

Have any of you guys tried batterskull somewhere in the 75? We can get it out of our hands fairly quickly with sol lands, and it'd help recoup some of the life loss we naturally incur!

If you look far back enough I wrote up an analysis about it. It's cute but like stated too difficult to reliably cast with the eldrazi lands.

[potatodavid]

This is considered Tier 1 again? Did everyone stop using balefulstrix all the sudden?

[GreatWhale]

This is considered Tier 1 again? Did everyone stop using balefulstrix all the sudden?

I feel like Eldrazi is favored against Czech Pile. Baleful Strix can only hold off Eldrazi so much, it was much better in Shardless BUG because they followed up a strix with a clock. Against Czech you either make it trade with a Matter Reshaper (1 for 1, and possible even with tempo upside) or you remove it with a warping wail or trample over it with Smasher. And Kolaghan's Command is too slow to beat Chalice, if they spend turn 3 getting rid of it you probably are winning on turn 4.

What else plays Strix? Aluren? that is a tougher match up but you try to race and thought-knot seer the aluren before they can play it. and it doesn't even see that much play anyways. Same strategy against food chain but probably harder match up, but again, not seeing that much play.


Eldrazi never really was that bad, its popularity just waned as people mixed it up after top was banned.