Goblin Dark-Dwellers and Ancestral Vision

[Secretly.A.Bee]

So this obviously has more to do with Modern, but the rulings will obviously be the same, therefore:

If I have Ancestral Vision in my 'yard and I resolve a Goblin Dark-Dweller, can I cast the Vision, or does it not work the same as Cascade with it's check?

Thanks in advance,

-ABC

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[Richard Cheese]

Pretty sure it works the same as Cascade because both are worded as "may cast ________ without paying its mana cost".

Also probably worth noting:



This has no mana cost, which means it can't be cast with the Replicate ability of Djinn Illuminatus or by somehow giving it Flashback.

[Secretly.A.Bee]

That ruling you left is actually the basis for my asking lol. I agree with you in your assessment, but some of the...characters I play with will need rulings to swallow this, as some are less than pleasant to deal with when they believe they are correct.

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[PirateKing]

Firstly, I agree with Mr. Cheese, I read it the same as Cascade, it doesn't matter what the cost (existent or otherwise) of the target spell is, you play it without paying.


...or by somehow giving it Flashback
Howerver, that seems like an odd wording, because while the two cards I know of that give spells without Flashback Flashback, Snapcaster Mage & Past in Flames, both specify what the Flashback cost is (equal to its mana cost). EXCEPT... flashback costs are not always their mana cost, and I see no reason to prohibit a spell from saying:

"Target instant or sorcery card in your graveyard gains flashback until end of turn. The flashback cost is :w: or :10: or 2 life or sacrifice a Mole or whatever."

If that were the case, then you should be able to cast Ancestral Vision from the graveyard. It's just that so far, the default wording has just used the original spell's mana cost as the Flashback cost.

Am I wrong?

[cdr]

Goblin Dark-Dwellers

117.6. (http://www.yawgatog.com/resources/magic-rules/#R1176) Some mana costs contain no mana symbols. This represents an unpayable cost. An ability can also have an unpayable cost if its cost is based on the mana cost of an object with no mana cost. Attempting to cast a spell or activate an ability that has an unpayable cost is a legal action. However, attempting to pay an unpayable cost is an illegal action.

117.6a. If an unpayable cost is increased by an effect or an additional cost is imposed, the cost is still unpayable. If an alternative cost is applied to an unpayable cost, including an effect that allows a player to cast a spell without paying its mana cost, the alternative cost may be paid.

"Without paying its mana cost" is an alternate cost, and therefore you can cast spells that have no mana cost that way.



If that were the case, then you should be able to cast Ancestral Vision from the graveyard. It's just that so far, the default wording has just used the original spell's mana cost as the Flashback cost.

Am I wrong?

You are correct, an effect would be free to set the flashback cost of a card to whatever it wants. I suspect they've stuck to setting it equal to mana cost mainly for balance reasons (MaRo probably has an answer about it somewhere since he's answered every possible question).

[Secretly.A.Bee]

Fantastic, thank you!

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[cdr]

Fantastic, thank you!

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