BigEldrazi

[caprino]

You listed 7 Ulamogs :) Are 4 of them Ugin?

Yea I correct.
Do you like?

[FourDogsinaHorseSuit]

https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/946479#paper
Yesterday this list went 5-0, and is notable for having zero mb Sowers or wails. Only 6 mana rocks, too.

[rmac]

I am really interested in this deck. I appreciate as much information as possible and everyone has done a great job documenting the progress.
For the players that are currently testing, could you let us know if you are on the play or draw. The reason I am asking, is that on the draw G1 to TES/Sneak the deck is dead to the nut draw(especially if players know you from the local meta).
I hope to have a version ready in the next two weeks. As I am want to run this deck for GP Seattle.

[MGB]

I am really interested in this deck. I appreciate as much information as possible and everyone has done a great job documenting the progress.
For the players that are currently testing, could you let us know if you are on the play or draw. The reason I am asking, is that on the draw G1 to TES/Sneak the deck is dead to the nut draw(especially if players know you from the local meta).
I hope to have a version ready in the next two weeks. As I am want to run this deck for GP Seattle.


Yes, sometimes TES and/or Sneak'n'Show just combo out before you can get disruption online. I don't really know of a good solution to this other than to just play enough lock pieces main and in the board and hope to win the die roll and mulligan aggressively in g2 and g3, and even mulligan to lock pieces g1 if you know what your opponent is on.

BTW I love 4 Ensnaring Bridge in the SB for Reanimator and Sneak decks, and it's also good against Lands and TurboDepths, AND decks like Merfolk and Elves.

[FourDogsinaHorseSuit]

To be fair, even decks with fow up have trouble surviving the perfect seven.

[Tucane]

Yes, sometimes TES and/or Sneak'n'Show just combo out before you can get disruption online. I don't really know of a good solution to this other than to just play enough lock pieces main and in the board and hope to win the die roll and mulligan aggressively in g2 and g3, and even mulligan to lock pieces g1 if you know what your opponent is on.

BTW I love 4 Ensnaring Bridge in the SB for Reanimator and Sneak decks, and it's also good against Lands and TurboDepths, AND decks like Merfolk and Elves.

Vs ANT/TES/(Burn) there is postboard Leyline of Sanctity, if you are willing to pay the price of 3-4 SB slots. Doesn't solve the SnT problem, but we have Bridge + random stuff for that.

IMO the clunkyness of leylines (drawing them midgame) becomes less of an issue with Azor's Gateway. Have to admit that card has grown on me the last week.

[FourDogsinaHorseSuit]

Last night I played this:
3 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
4 Endbringer
4 Thought-Knot Seer
2 Matter Reshaper
2 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
2 Walking Ballista
3 All Is Dust
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Grim Monolith
1 Hedron Archive
4 Sorcerous Spyglass
3 Trinisphere
4 Ancient Tomb
3 City of Traitors
4 Cloudpost
4 Eldrazi Temple
2 Eye of Ugin
4 Glimmerpost
3 Vesuva

Side:
4 Leyline of Sanctity
4 Leyline of the Void
2 Warping Wail
2 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Spatial Contortion
2 ???

I went 2-1.
Round one I beat the Red Prison deck with Moon, Moon on Legs, and Blood sun. He had a turn one moon both games, but game one I played hedron archive and game two I had two Grim monoliths. Ugin closed both games. Game one any manarock wins, and game two if you dodge abrade you'll be golden. (In my case he abraded the first monolith, and I used it to make a 1/1 mana dork, followed by casting a second monolith he had no answer for.)
Sideboard: -4 Chalice of the Void -3 Trinisphere +all non leylines
Round two against storm. Game one he kept a slow hand but I wasn't doing much either. I played a spyglass and saw a hand of five rituals and an infernal tutor and scooped. Game two had turn one chalice on 1. Turn two trinisphere, then a backup trinisphere and all sorts of lock pieces. Game 3 he is about to go off but plays the wrong payoff card (I had a wail for it anyways) and next turn top-decked a trinisphere.
Sideboard -4 Sorcerous SPyglass +2 Warping Wail +2 Leyline of Sanctity
Round three against Maverick game one I drew all the lock pieces and didn't draw a single threat. I think I took out the trinispheres and replaced them with 2 wail and 1 Contortion. It didn't matter because I didn't expect him to knight up depths and stage and there was nothing I could have done. (I could have, maybe, attacked into him and he'd make the 20/20 to block a TKS or my Matter Reshaper but banking on him to misplay isn't really having an out)

[rmac]

Thanks for the responses. I was asking about the Game 1 vs TES and Sneak n Show, just to see if I was missing a line.

I like the idea of using Ensnaring bridge for Sneak N Show.

With the decklists that are running 16 to 18 artifacts, I just start to question if the deck should include Blood Sun and Mox Opal (this is the only legal mox that doesn't give card disadvantage). I know people in the thread want to splash a color. It does hinder Eye, Vesuva, and Thespian Stage. But does shut down greedy mana bases that rely on fetches.

[FourDogsinaHorseSuit]

Thanks for the responses. I was asking about the Game 1 vs TES and Sneak n Show, just to see if I was missing a line.

I like the idea of using Ensnaring bridge for Sneak N Show.

With the decklists that are running 16 to 18 artifacts, I just start to question if the deck should include Blood Sun and Mox Opal (this is the only legal mox that doesn't give card disadvantage). I know people in the thread want to splash a color. It does hinder Eye, Vesuva, and Thespian Stage. But does shut down greedy mana bases that rely on fetches.

Endbringer (and Bridge out of the Side) works well against Sneak and Show. Trini and Chalice work against Storm

Blood Sun is nah, because the abilities you're worried about can, nine of ten times, be stopped by Spyglass. As for opal, it's also not that great because realistically you can't use it until turn three. A petal would probably be better in that sense.

[caprino]

Last night I played this:
3 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
4 Endbringer
4 Thought-Knot Seer
2 Matter Reshaper
2 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
2 Walking Ballista
3 All Is Dust
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Grim Monolith
1 Hedron Archive
4 Sorcerous Spyglass
3 Trinisphere
4 Ancient Tomb
3 City of Traitors
4 Cloudpost
4 Eldrazi Temple
2 Eye of Ugin
4 Glimmerpost
3 Vesuva

Side:
4 Leyline of Sanctity
4 Leyline of the Void
2 Warping Wail
2 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Spatial Contortion
2 ???

I went 2-1.
Round one I beat the Red Prison deck with Moon, Moon on Legs, and Blood sun. He had a turn one moon both games, but game one I played hedron archive and game two I had two Grim monoliths. Ugin closed both games. Game one any manarock wins, and game two if you dodge abrade you'll be golden. (In my case he abraded the first monolith, and I used it to make a 1/1 mana dork, followed by casting a second monolith he had no answer for.)
Sideboard: -4 Chalice of the Void -3 Trinisphere +all non leylines
Round two against storm. Game one he kept a slow hand but I wasn't doing much either. I played a spyglass and saw a hand of five rituals and an infernal tutor and scooped. Game two had turn one chalice on 1. Turn two trinisphere, then a backup trinisphere and all sorts of lock pieces. Game 3 he is about to go off but plays the wrong payoff card (I had a wail for it anyways) and next turn top-decked a trinisphere.
Sideboard -4 Sorcerous SPyglass +2 Warping Wail +2 Leyline of Sanctity
Round three against Maverick game one I drew all the lock pieces and didn't draw a single threat. I think I took out the trinispheres and replaced them with 2 wail and 1 Contortion. It didn't matter because I didn't expect him to knight up depths and stage and there was nothing I could have done. (I could have, maybe, attacked into him and he'd make the 20/20 to block a TKS or my Matter Reshaper but banking on him to misplay isn't really having an out)
Why you play matter reshaper?

[FourDogsinaHorseSuit]

Why you play matter reshaper?

I had a plan to lower the curve and do something different but then I didn't actually follow through on it but didn't take out all the reshapers.
I played them in two games, where one died trading with a Goblin Rabblemaster and drew a Hedron Archive to get past a blood moon. (Kill a guy, draw a card isn't bad but it also isn't too impressive) The second one got a few hits in, and I had to intentionally kill it to try and dig for an answer to Marit Lege (It found a cloudpost. A glimmerpost would have put me over 20 life and I'd have another turn. Alternatively, had I attacked before the token was made it could have found a spyglass). I'm not too impressed with them, but I'm not disappointed either. The deck needs to draw cards somehow, and a 3/2 for two lands is one way to do it.

[kingtk3]

After reading all the posts of this thread I've put a list I would like to test on xMage (unfortunately I'm unable to attend IRL events in these days)
MAIN
4 grim monolith
3 Thran Dynamo
3 Voltaic key
4 chalice of the void
3 oblivion sower
4 thought-knot seer
2 endbringer
1 Kozilek, the Great Distortion
1 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
3 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
2 Walking Ballista
2 all is dust
3 warping wail
4 ancient tomb
3 Eye of Ugin
4 eldrazi temple
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 cloudpost
4 glimmerpost
*
2 vesuva
2 city of traitors
2 thespian's stage
*


SIDE NAME
3 sorcerous spyglass
3 trinisphere
3 surgical extraction
1 faerie macabre
2 wurmcoil engine
2 spatial contortion
1 warping wail


I need your advice because I would like to play city (can play grim/chalice T1, and lives at least until T2 - no damage unlike tomb), vesuva (can copy triggers and doesn't cost anything so it can speed up your ramp race - but CIB tapped) and thespian (versatile, can copy different things but not CIB triggers - CIB untapped and can become Marit lage against lands), but I have only 4 slots free.

How would you distribute those lands? Do you have some advice on the list?

[ChrisDissent]

I just got another Top-8 with my build in a Legacy Challenge. I played 3 Azor's Gateways to test them out and they were pretty solid. I flipped it once but the filtering effect was pretty valuable even when I didn't get to "ultimate" it.

I only lost in the last round of the swiss to a punishing fire/deathrite shaman deck after making a mistake of exiling Ulamog and keeping Kozilek at the end when I should have kept Ulamog and dying to Ob Nixilis ultimate (lol).

And I lost in the Top-8 to classic Grixis Delver Daze/Spell Pierce/Force/Wastelands. I lost G1 and won G2 and had a shot to win G3 but he had double Wasteland and I got greedy by playing Cloudpost #1 and Cloudpost #2 back-to-back when if I had baited out the second Wasteland with an Ancient Tomb I probably would have had a good shot to win the game because I had Ugins in hand and he only won the game with Delver/2xDRS on the board.

Hi Pathy,

is Azor's that solid ? I mean, it can be helpful, but don't you want in its place either something like Sorcerous Spyglass (Wasteland can still be a problem and the peek effect is really nice) or more threat density ?
Going down to 3 City is a nice move IMO, the list is really attractive now. I'd do some tests, replacing the third one with an Eye of Ugin as I really hate multiple cities or drawing it in the first turns.
You seem to pack a lot of additional combo hate in the sideboard (2x Thorn + 1 Trini). Were they really crucial ? Don't you wish they were something else ? (Ratchet Bomb, Spatial Contortion, etc.)

And congratz for the run, still impressive.

[JeezXrist]

After reading all the posts of this thread I've put a list I would like to test on xMage (unfortunately I'm unable to attend IRL events in these days)
MAIN
4 grim monolith
3 Thran Dynamo
3 Voltaic key
4 chalice of the void
3 oblivion sower
4 thought-knot seer
2 endbringer
1 Kozilek, the Great Distortion
1 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
3 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
2 Walking Ballista
2 all is dust
3 warping wail
4 ancient tomb
3 Eye of Ugin
4 eldrazi temple
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 cloudpost
4 glimmerpost
*
2 vesuva
2 city of traitors
2 thespian's stage
*


SIDE NAME
3 sorcerous spyglass
3 trinisphere
3 surgical extraction
1 faerie macabre
2 wurmcoil engine
2 spatial contortion
1 warping wail


I need your advice because I would like to play city (can play grim/chalice T1, and lives at least until T2 - no damage unlike tomb), vesuva (can copy triggers and doesn't cost anything so it can speed up your ramp race - but CIB tapped) and thespian (versatile, can copy different things but not CIB triggers - CIB untapped and can become Marit lage against lands), but I have only 4 slots free.

How would you distribute those lands? Do you have some advice on the list?

I actually reverted to 4 City of Traitors to my manabase since I need an immediate physical mana to ramp as soon as possible. Our current meta is shifting to a more aggro'ish environment and I think putting early threats to somehow "catch-up" is also a way to avert tempo plays from the opposing side.

I removed the Vesuva's in my list since, again, I needed more physical mana and an opening of multiple Vesuva's and/or with Eye of Ugin's is really bad.

[rmac]

Thanks for all the information people have shared. This was my first live legacy game in years. He is the run down from what I can remember. I did take notes, but they were not very care as I looked at them this morning.

MAIN
4 Grim Monolith
2 Thran Dynamo
3 Voltaic key
4 chalice of the void
3 Azor’s Gateway
3 Trinisphere
4 thought-knot seer
3 endbringer
1 Kozilek, the Great Distortion
2 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
1 Emrakul, The Promised End
4 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
1 all is dust
4 ancient tomb
2 Eye of Ugin
4 eldrazi temple
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 cloudpost
4 glimmerpost
3 vesuva
3 city of traitors



Sideboard
3 sorcerous spyglass
4 Leyline of the Void
4 Ensnaring Bridge
2 All is Dust
2 warping wail

2/22/18

Round 1 – MUD (0-1)
Game 1 – Win - Establish board control and opponent scoops.
Game 2 – Lose – Opp Turn 2 Metal Worker, Turn 3 Blightsteel ( I misboarded this game keeping in Trinisphere instead of bringing in Bridge)
Game 3 – Lose – Kept a two-lander, drew one more land after getting wasteland to keep me off 4 mana. I did get a bridge out to slow down the game and hope to draw out. Opp played Ugin and ultimate before being able to stabilize.

Round 2 – Grixis Control (1-1)
Sideboard: -3 Ugin, The spirit dragon
+2 Warping Wail
+1 All is Dust
Game 1 – Win - I try to resolve a Chalice for 1 and it gets forced. Follow up with Endbringers on consecutive turns.
Game 2 – Lose- I try to do stuff and he resolves two Gurmag Anglers.
Game 3 – Win – I lay down a turn one chalice on 1. Opponent stumbles on mana. I cast Ulamog, the ceaseless hunger and exile his two lands.

Round 3 – B/W midrange (2-1)
Sideboard: +2 Warping Wail
+3 Sorcerous Spyglass
-3 Trinisphere
-1 Chalice
-1 Azor’s Gateway
Game 1 – Cast Emrakul early.
Game 2 – Opp gets down an early Ensnaring bridge and I start pinging with an Endbringer. I use Azor’s Gateway to filter through my deck for an answer. Find Ugin and ultimate Ugin. Cast Ulamog to break the lock.

Round 4 – Maverick (3-1)
Sideboard: +2 Warping Wail
+2 Sorcerous Spyglass
+1 All is Dust
-2 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
-1 Voltaic Key
-1 Azor’s Gateway
-1 Chalice of the void
Game 1- Win
Game 2 – Lose - Early turn Monolith into Trinisphere. Opponent uses wasteland. Eventually he draws out of the softlock and I can’t generate 4 mana.
Game 3 – Win – Turn 1 Sorcerous Spyglass naming “Wasteland.” The follow turn with a Thought-Knot Seer. Opponent did get some threats that were taken care of by an All is dust.

[FourDogsinaHorseSuit]

3-1 Good job!

I see you used gateway to filter out of a stall: Was that the only game you used it?

[rmac]

3-1 Good job!

I see you used gateway to filter out of a stall: Was that the only game you used it?

I used it in a few other games to win more... It was definitely helpful to cycle away extra lands.

[caprino]

So I took this deck to SCG Washington this past weekend:


4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
3 Vesuva
2 Thespian's Stage
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
2 Eldrazi Temple
2 Eye of Ugin

4 Grim Monolith
3 Thran Dynamo
2 Basalt Monolith
4 Voltaic Key
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Trinisphere

4 Thought-Knot Seer
2 Endbringer
2 Kozilek, the Great Distortion
2 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
1 Emrakul, The Promised End

4 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon

SB:
1 Trinisphere
4 Ensnaring Bridge
2 Coercive Portal
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
3 All is Dust
4 Leyline of the Void



Day 1

Round 1: vs. Deathblade pilot - Won 2-1. He made some mistakes but this match was just about me getting to enough mana and not being disrupted in any way, and he was trying to win the game with Batterskull when I started casting Ugins and Eldrazi.

Round 2: vs. Elves pilot - I won 2-0 pretty easily because he had some seriously slow hands for an Elves player and I managed to land Ugin and wipe his board in at least one game and possibly both games. I definitely got lucky here because usually Elves either combos off or Natural Orders on Turn 2-3 and he just didn't do anything but attack me with dudes for multiple turns.

Round 3: vs. Metalworker Stax pilot - I won 2-1. This guy eventually top-16ed with a Metalworker Stax build that tries to lock you out of the game and infi-combo with Staff of Domination. I got lucky with my draws and in one game I managed to Turn-3 Ugin Bolt his metalworker right before he went infinite, and I also managed to Emrakul him in G3 and wreck his hand and board to which he scooped.

Round 4 vs. RUG Delver pilot - I won 2-1. This guy eventually went on to Top-8 the event. He was a good player and his deck was completely pimped out with foil everything that could be foiled and FBB duals and Guru lands, afaik. The game I lost was due to quick Delver + disruption, and the games I won I managed to stall with Thought-Knot Seer before my mana got online and I transitioned into the end-game.

Round 5 vs. UB Deathblade pilot - I lost 1-2 to Sam Roukas who is an elite player who used to be one of the best Miracles pilots on the East Coast. I definitely felt like I could have won this match if I played tighter and sideboarded better, but he made fewer mistakes than me. I lost G1 to quick pressure from dudes (Deathrites, Mentor, Stoneforge->Batterskull) because I misplayed Endbringer instead of prioritizing getting Thran Dynamo + Key + other rocks online. On one turn I could have cast the Thran Dynamo I instead cast Endbringer which was quickly StPed. If I instead cast Thran Dynamo that turn, I woiuld have later had enough mana to activate my Eye of Ugin and search for Eldrazi and cast them, but because I spent that turn playing Endbringer, I eventually died a turn before I could get the Eye searching and have mana to cast stuff. In G2 I just got Trinisphere into Ugin and he scooped early. In G3 I ended up with a ton of mana, but had Emrakul the Aeons Torn in hand vs. his Mentor and Deathrite. Now, it was a lot, but it still wasn't enough to cast Emrakul. It was 13 mana so I needed to topdeck a sol-land or something, but I never did. Emrakul the Aeons Torn probably shouldn't even be played in this deck because while it's awesome when it does resolve, even in this deck 15 mana is just way too much to cast reliably. I can't have stuff rotting in my hand when I have 13 mana on the board.

Round 6 vs. Stoneblade pilot - I won 2-0 easily against another Blade player who didn't have enough disruption and I just goldfished Ugin/Eldrazi vs him.

Round 7 vs. Grixis Delver pilot - I lost 1-2. This was the match that I regretted fucking up the entire weekend. I was playing against Roland Chang who is a solid player but mostly plays Vintage so he approaches the game differently from most Legacy players. I think I lost one game to disruption + Delver, and I won one game where I goldfished fast. The last game was the one that stuck in my craw the whole weekend. He landed a quick Delver but that was all he had for a few turns. At some point I was low on life going down to 2 life, but I had Eye of Ugin and searched for Emrakul. I cast Emrakul and mindslavered him but before I got his turn he ccast Diabolic Edict to force me to sac Emrakul. I took his turn and saw Force of Will, Young Pyromancer, Pithing Needle. He had Cabal Therapy in his graveyard too. I cast Cabal Therapy flashback saccing the Delver and making him discard Young Pyromancer, and then looked at Pithing Needle and didn't even consider naming anything relevant because I didn't think it would matter, so I stupidly said something like "I name Wooly Thoctar." Next turn he topdecks Wasteland and wastes my Eye of Ugin, and the following turn he topdecks Price of Progress to kill me. Now, if I had thought about it for a while, I would have realized that the my path to Victory at that point relied on activating Eye again for Ulamog once he had Edicted my Emrakul, and the only card worth naming in his deck with his own Pithing Needle is either a fetchland or Wasteland. If I had named "Wasteland" with his needle, I literally could have searched for Ulamog and cast Ulamog the turn after he topdecked the Wasteland, and then I could have exiled his two lands and Price wouldn't have mattered, but instead I foolishly ignored the Needle's importance and lost when I could have won.

Round 8 vs. Death 'n' Taxes pilot - I won 2-1. This matchup is pretty simple - if they disrupt you with Revoker and Wasteland and Ports you're done, and if they don't, they're done. Ports+Revokers+wasteland is what happened in the game I lost and in the games I won he didn't have enough and I cast All is Dust and Ugins.

Round 9 vs. STORM pilot - I lost 1-2. I didn't know what he was on, so in G1 I kept a slow hand with lots of mana and a single Thought-Knot Seer that would have been awesome against the mid-range decks that I was seeing all weekend, but sucked against him because when I cast TKS, I saw 2 Burning Wish, Petal, LED, Pyretic Ritual, and Infefrnal Tutor. I think I took the LED and he still managed to combo out pretty easily because I didn't draw any further disruption. In G2 I locked him out with a great hand full of Chalice and Trinisphere. In G3 I kept a sketchy hand with 2 City of Traitors, some Vesuvas, a Voltiac Key, some other land, and a Chalice of the Void. I didn't want to ship back a hand where I can cast Chalice @ 1 on my first turn, but unfortunately it didn't have much else. Of course he casts Duress on his first turn, takes my Chalice, and I don't have anything else after that and he combos off a turn or two later with Goblin tokens. I hate losing to Storm when I play a deck that has 4 Trinisphere, 4 Chalice, and 4 TKS. Here's a matchup where I might consider adding Warping Wail to this deck either in the main or in the sideboard, because sometimes against these combo decks you need even more disruption to beat them consistently.

Day 2

Round 10 vs. 4c Leovold pilot - I won 2-0 in a resounding fashion. This was against Rudy Brikza who is some kind of a minor semi-pro player, I guess. He had a huge attitude like he was a hot-shot, tried to belittle me the whole time, called judge loudly on a mistake I made, and in general was just a complete prick. Of course it felt great to just destroy him completely with a deck he probably thought was a complete jank pile. In one of the games he trots out a board full of Jace, 2 Deathrites, Leovold, and a Strix, and taps out to do so. He has this look on his face like "Yeah, what are you gonna do now, huh?" Next turn I have enough mana to cast Trinisphere and then cast Ugin and the look on his face was priceless. In G2 he Hymns me a few times, counters a bunch of stuff, and I have lots of mana but my stuff keeps getting countered or discarded, but I topdeck Kozilek on an empty board and empty hand like a boss and he just storms off without saying another word.

Round 11 vs. Deathblade? pilot - I won 2-0 easily. I don't remember this one too well, because all of these blue mid-range decks kind of blend together for me. I'm thinking he was on some kind of Blade variant or possibly just a DRS/Pyro build.

Round 12 vs. BR Reanimator pilot - I lost 1-2. This match sucked because this really should be one of my better matchups because I play 4 Leyline and 4 Ensnaring Bridge in the SB on top of the Chalices and Trinispheres. In G1 I won with just that - I landed Grim Monolith -> Trinisphere on Turn1 or something like that, and eventually he scooped. In G2 I mulled to Leyline and was looking like I was going to win the game after landing TKS and taking one of his good cards, but he still has Griselbrand in hand and topdecks something called "Stronghold Gambit" which I'd never seen before. Turns out it, it's like a Show and Tell for red mana. He puts Griselbrand into play and wins by drawing into more stuff and bouncing Leyline and getting Tidespout. In G3 I don't have Leyline but I get Chalice @ 1 on the play. He doesn't play anything and discard Griselbrand to end step discard. He casts Unmask on me at some point and takes an Ensnaring Bridge before I have a chance to cast it. I cast TKS and take his Animate Dead and see a hand full of 1cc spells and another Griselbrand. I attack him and then next turn, you guessed it, he casts Stronghold Gambit again. So in both games I lose despite having Leylines and Chalices. This is another match in which I think it would be beneficial to have access to Warping Wail because you need the extra counterspells when they have stupid stuff like Stronghold Gambit to circumvent hate.

Round 13 vs. UW Helm Control pilot - I won 2-1. This guy was playing a UW Control deck with Rest in Peace + Energy Field and Helm combo. I don't really care about Energy Field at all so that was easy to ignore. In the games I won I just beat countermagic and cast Eldrazi. In the game I lost he landed a surprise Back to Basics on me and won with Mentors. But really, short of a surprise like Back to Basics when I'm tapped out, I will pretty always beat this type of slow, traditional UW control deck.

Round 14 vs BUG Delver pilot - I lose 0-2 and just got crushed. This is the only match all day where I felt I wasn't in the game and was losing no matter what. He just had the perfect hands with Wastelands, Dazes, Force of Wills, and quick and early Tarmogoyfs and Delvers. In G2 I sandbag Cloudpost and play Glimmerpost instead first, and he doesn't show Wasteland, but I get impatient and then play Cloudpost G2 which he promptly wastelands. I needed Cloudpost to stay in play because I had multiple Vesuvas and Ugin in hand, but he sniffed it out and waited on it. Bleh.

Round 15 vs. Leovold? Delver? pilot - I won 2-1. These matches were close. He played Deathrites and Tarmogoyfs and Leovold. The games I won I won because I wasn't disrupted enough and the game I lost I lost because I was disrupted and faced quick pressure. He also made some mistakes and I took advantage of them. He took the lost pretty bad and started going on tilt at the end of the game, but later it turned out he had made 62nd place anyway despite losing so we actually ended up getting the same cash payout because I barely missed top-32 at 34th place and 33-64 receive the same minimum cash payout. So he did all that raging for nothing. :-)



The major takeaways for me from this event were:

- The deck is definitely in a pretty solid position in the meta right now because it just preys on all the mid-range blue decks that you see, and it *theoretically* has good combo matchups (despite me losing to Storm and Reanimator). I mean, most times against the Blade decks you're pretty heavily favored because they don't play enough disruption. The only blue decks that are really threatening are the Grixis Pyromancer decks and BUG Delver. Grixis is tough but beatable with all the sweepers, and BUG Delver is just really rough because they play K-Command, Decays, Hymns, Wastelands, and the like, but the good thing is that that deck is just not heavily played anymore.

- Ugin is amazing and consistently the best card in the deck. I basically never lost when I resolved Ugin because a.) it wiped the board immediately and b.) it stayed in play as a win condition. If you're not playing 4 Ugin I think you're doing it wrong. All is Dust is good, but it's not a win condition in and of itself. And if you play 4 Ugin main, and some All is Dust MD or SB, you have access to up to 8 sweepers anyway. I feel like you have to play both Ugin AND All is Dust in this format.

- I definitely need Warping Wail somewhere because having access to something that counters random sorceries and kills random x/1s (Metalworker, DRS, Thalia, Elves, Infect creatures) is incredibly useful. And against combo decks sometimes just having 4 Chalice and 4 Trinisphere isn't enough, surprisingly.

- Endbringer did little more than eat removal spells the few times I managed to resolve him. The problem with playing traditional creatures in this deck is that they're removal MAGNETS. Everyone in this format plays removal of some kind, and when you play a creature in a deck that's mostly non-creature stuff, it's like saying "Please use that StP that's rotting in your hand on me!" TKS is a different story because while it is a removal magnet too, its immediate hand-disruption effect is just so valuable that it's worth it, AND you can sometimes snag the removal and keep TKS if you don't see anything else threatening. Endbringer is just a 6 mana tempo sink if they immediately cast an edict effect or an StP on it. I'm pondering just playing All is Dust or going back to Karn Liberated in this slot.
In this moment I test this list.
I change main deck - 2 endbringer - 1 emrakul new - 2 thespian... + 2 all is dust +1 emrakul old +2 eldrazi temple

My side is 4 leyline, 4 ensnaring bridge, 4 warping wail, 3 coercive portal

[caprino]

Today 5 0 on mtgo league

https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/969963#paper

[porkypads]

how does this deck do vs. grixis delver? i've been having lots of fun locally with this deck and plan on playing it at GP Seattle but might change my mind if it doesn't do well vs. grixis delver. what kind of maindeck choices can we make to make the matchup a good one?

[Tucane]

how does this deck do vs. grixis delver? i've been having lots of fun locally with this deck and plan on playing it at GP Seattle but might change my mind if it doesn't do well vs. grixis delver. what kind of maindeck choices can we make to make the matchup a good one?


4x Chalice, 3x Trinisphere and 3-4 Wurmcoil Engine should do it:-) Sweepers as in All is Dust/Ugin are good aswell.

[FourDogsinaHorseSuit]

Today 5 0 on mtgo league

https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/969963#paper
Gratz. I'll be taking it out for a spin tonight, and I'll write up tomorrow
Edit: I didn't go out because of the weather and a sick pupper.

[caprino]

Gratz. I'll be taking it out for a spin tonight, and I'll write up tomorrow

Thanks.
I win vs nic fit, reanimator, grixis, mirror, death and taxes.

Oblivion sower is very strong vs more matchup.

In this moment I no play mana artifact main deck but I test a version much controll (4 warping 4 Spatial main deck) and thespian stage.

[Airwave]

Hi there,

First post in this topic for me, I decided to build Big Eldrazi after Timo Wolf's top8 at MKM series. I built my list on his setup and made some changes during/after testing. Last weekend I played first tournament with it, ended up 4-2 not making top 8.

The list:


4 Grim Monolith
4 Thran Dynamo
2 Voltaic Key
4 Chalice of the void
2 Trinisphere
4 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Conduit of Ruin
4 Thought-knot seer
4 Endbringer
1 Walking Ballista
3 All is Dust
4 Ancient tomb
4 Eye of Ugin
4 Eldrazi Temple
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
2 Vesuva
3 City of Traitors


Sideboard

4 Sorcerous Spyglass
1 Trinisphere
4 Ensnaring Bridge
2 Faerie Macabre
1 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Spatial Contortion
1 Leyline of the Void
1 Karakas


I lost against Infect and Merfolk, won against Maverick, Stoneblade, Turbo Depths and Painter (green version). I feel this deck really has game but the matchups against fast decks that are not easily stopped by Chalice/Trini are difficult to win I think. So dodge those :cool:

[caprino]

Main deck
4 cloudpost
4 glimmerpost
4 ancient tomb
4 eldrazi temple
4 vesuva
4 thespian
2 eye
1 karakas
1 Urborg

4 Grim monolith
4 chalice
3 trinisphere
4 spyglass
4 warping
2 ugin
2 all is dust

4 Seer
2 ulamog
1 emrakul old
1 kozilek new
1 kozilek butcher

What do you think 16 post controll?

[kingtk3]

Main deck
4 cloudpost
4 glimmerpost
4 ancient tomb
4 eldrazi temple
4 vesuva
4 thespian
2 eye
1 karakas
1 Urborg

4 Grim monolith
4 chalice
3 trinisphere
4 spyglass
4 warping
2 ugin
2 all is dust

4 Seer
2 ulamog
1 emrakul old
1 kozilek new
1 kozilek butcher

What do you think 16 post controll?

Isn't it a little light on threats? Only 11 (and seers almost always will die).

Is 4 temple the right number with only 11 eldrazi cards?

[caprino]

Isn't it a little light on threats? Only 11 (and seers almost always will die).

Is 4 temple the right number with only 11 eldrazi cards?
This list is a test.

I think 2 eldrazi temple is good main deck (no 4x)

Next idea is Spatial contortion main deck... What do you think

[kingtk3]

This list is a test.

I think 2 eldrazi temple is good main deck (no 4x)

Next idea is Spatial contortion main deck... What do you think

Do you mean -2 temples, +2 spatial contortion?

It could work...

[caprino]

Do you mean -2 temples, +2 spatial contortion?

It could work...
No.

Main deck lands

4 cloudpost
4 glimmerpost
4 ancient tomb
2 eye
3 eldrazi temple
4 vesuva
1 karakas
1 Urborg
3 thespian

[kingtk3]

No.

Main deck lands

4 cloudpost
4 glimmerpost
4 ancient tomb
2 eye
3 eldrazi temple
4 vesuva
1 karakas
1 Urborg
3 thespian

with the maindeck spells you listed before I would play
+2 contortion (in place of the 2 lands)
-1 warping wail
+1 all is dust/oblivion sower/endbringer (which benefits from temple)

[caprino]

with the maindeck spells you listed before I would play
+2 contortion (in place of the 2 lands)
-1 warping wail
+1 all is dust/oblivion sower/endbringer (which benefits from temple)
Yes I love sower is very good.

[caprino]

with the maindeck spells you listed before I would play
+2 contortion (in place of the 2 lands)
-1 warping wail
+1 all is dust/oblivion sower/endbringer (which benefits from temple)

4 cloudpost
4 glimmerpost
4 ancient tomb
4 vesuva
4 eldrazi temple
2 thespian
2 eye
1 karakas
1 Urborg

4 chalice
3 trinisphere
4 ugin
4 all is dust
4 Grim monolith
3 warping wail
2 Spatial contortion

4 Seer
2 ulamog
2 oblivion sower
2 endbringer

[FourDogsinaHorseSuit]

Yes I love sower is very good.

Why? Every time I go to put them in the deck I then see Endbringer and pick it instead.

[caprino]

Why? Every time I go to put them in the deck I then see Endbringer and pick it instead.
Sower is good vs more matchup (death and taxes, lands, wasteland decks ecc..) is 5/8 vs bug and cz pile help vs big creatures...and help you a ramp (2 Urborg main deck all time)
. Endbringer is very good but no trigger. I think 2 copy sower and 2 copy endbringer is nice mix

[Tucane]

For my next tournament, I'll likely be playing something close to this list:

4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Wurmcoil Engine
3 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
3 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn

4 Chalice of the Void
3 Voltaic Key
3 Azor's Gateway
4 Grim Monolith
4 Thran Dynamo
3 All Is Dust

Lands:25
4 Ancient Tomb
3 City of Traitors
4 Cloudpost
4 Eldrazi Temple
3 Eye of Ugin
4 Glimmerpost
3 Vesuva

Sideboard:15
4 Sorcerous Spyglass
3 Warping Wail
4 Leyline of Sanctity
4 Leyline of the Void

There has been a local abscence of combodecks the last weeks, so the amount of MD hate is lower. The 6 MD sweepers and a good threat density should do it in an environment full of grindy decks. I do like Voltaic Key more in this version with more ways to use it.

[Cocheloco]

Guys, as you might know, there was a Dominaria leak. I read somewhere they are printing a 1/3 artifact creature with a 2-cost mana saying something like: at the beginning of your end step, untap target artifact... this sounds interesting for our deck!

Found it: https://www.mtggoldfish.com/price/Dominaria/Voltaic+Servant#paper

[Tucane]

Speaking of the dominaria leak...

(4) Karn, Scion of Urza [Loyalty 5]

+1: Reveal the top 2 cards from your library. An opponent chooses one of them.
Put that card into your hand and exile the other with a silver counter on it.

-1: Put a card with a silver counter on it from exile into your hand.

-2: Create a 0/0 colorless construct artifact creature token with "this creature gets +1/+1 for each artifact you control".

This digs 2 cards deep for each +1 activation, while being card advantage. Nothing gets permanently lost in filtering due to -1. Also it can serve as a win condition or atleast create blockers to buy enough time for us to resolve a bomb.

[FourDogsinaHorseSuit]

The opponent gets to choose so the + ability is worse than gateway, the minus is cool but slow and the ultimate isn't bad. Playable but in place of what?
If you're playing Eldrazi you'll pass on this, but if you're playing MUD...

[Tucane]

The opponent gets to choose so the + ability is worse than gateway, the minus is cool but slow and the ultimate isn't bad. Playable but in place of what?
If you're playing Eldrazi you'll pass on this, but if you're playing MUD...

Coercive Portal is a frequent SB choice for grindy matchups. Baby Karn is strictly better in terms of speed while having the same raw CA per turn, so it should take it's slots, unless the flexibility is enough to warrant MD inclusion. It doesn't die to artifact removal (like Portal) and can't be StP'd like Endbringer. Still it might end up being a worse choice than Endbringer for other reasons.

Sure, the -2 is better in MUD for obvious reasons

The combined usage of +1 and -1 is better in BigEldrazi due to us having more inherent dead draws, so we often need to dig as deep as possible.

I'm likely going to play it in place of gateway.

[ChrisDissent]

Some nice Mengucci content (5-0'd a league) : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pg2LVVASbeU

Kinda like the list (close to what I'm playing at the moment), although I'm really doubtful about Karn in Legacy, and more and more about Kozilek V2 too (Emrakul V2 is way better in many scenarios).

[MGB]

That new Karn seems really good, actually. Drawing a card every turn is still positive card advantage, and you can get them back and it has a kill condition. It's almost like a better Coercive Portal.

It evades spot removal, which was a major problem for Endbringer (it eats all the StPs and Liliana effects). And it evades artifact removal (which everyone board against this deck).

I could see it being a main-deck inclusion, tbh.

[ChrisDissent]

That new Karn seems really good, actually. Drawing a card every turn is still positive card advantage, and you can get them back and it has a kill condition. It's almost like a better Coercive Portal.

It evades spot removal, which was a major problem for Endbringer (it eats all the StPs and Liliana effects). And it evades artifact removal (which everyone board against this deck).

I could see it being a main-deck inclusion, tbh.

yep, I guess it's just better than Azor's Gateway and could fit in nicely

Edit : previous post, I was talking about Karn Liberated

[caprino]

Today top 4 (split) a tournament 47 player

4 cloudpost
4 glimmerpost
4 ancient tomb
4 vesuva
3 city of traitors
2 eye of ugin
2 eldrazi temple
2 thespian

4 Grim monolith
4 chalice
4 Voltaic key
2 basalt
3 trinisphere
3 dynamo

4 ugin
1 all is dust

4 Seer
3 ulamog
1 kozilek new
1 kozilek butcher
1 emrakul old

Side
4 leyline
4 ensnaring bridge
4 warping wail
3 helm obbedience


G1 win 2 1 vs bug delver
G2 win 2 0 vs eldrazi Stompy
G3 win 2 0 vs dark deph
G4 win 2 0 vs bug leovold
G5 win 2 0 vs eldrazi ramp
G6 id

Quarterfinal win 2 1 reanimator br

Split top 4... Very very good!!!!

[Tucane]

Today top 4 (split) a tournament 47 player

4 cloudpost
4 glimmerpost
4 ancient tomb
4 vesuva
3 city of traitors
2 eye of ugin
2 eldrazi temple
2 thespian

4 Grim monolith
4 chalice
4 Voltaic key
2 basalt
3 trinisphere
3 dynamo

4 ugin
1 all is dust

4 Seer
3 ulamog
1 kozilek new
1 kozilek butcher
1 emrakul old


G1 win 2 1 vs bug delver
G2 win 2 0 vs eldrazi Stompy
G3 win 2 0 vs dark deph
G4 win 2 0 vs bug leovold
G5 win 2 0 vs eldrazi ramp
G6 id

Quarterfinal win 2 1 reanimator br

Split top 4... Very very good!!!!

Congrats, great work!

Did you close out any game with Old Emmy? I really want the card to work in this deck.

[caprino]

Congrats, great work!

Did you close out any game with Old Emmy? I really want the card to work in this deck.

I play emrakul vs mirror and win a game.

I think next time side out emrakul and play ballista

[Tucane]

I play emrakul vs mirror and win a game.

I think next time side out emrakul and play ballista

Thanks! Might do the same, had bad luck with drawing emmy at the wrong times lately.

[caprino]

Thanks! Might do the same, had bad luck with drawing emmy at the wrong times lately.
Yes,is hard to cast emrakul... I think emrakul new is superior.

Ballista is very strong vs grixis, elf, death and taxes ecc, is nice card in big eldrazi...1 copy main deck is good

[MGB]

Yes,is hard to cast emrakul... I think emrakul new is superior.

Ballista is very strong vs grixis, elf, death and taxes ecc, is nice card in big eldrazi...1 copy main deck is good

Nice job caprino


I see you're back to a version of the old "Pathy" list :-))

How is the Leyline + Helm combo from SB working? Is it a surprise trick?

[FourDogsinaHorseSuit]

I played today in a 25ish person tournament and went 2-3,
Wins over Food chain and Miracles, losses to UW Stoneblade, burn and Leo
List:
4 Monolith
1 Dynamo
1 Hedron Archive
4 Spyglass
4 Chalice
3 Trinisphere
2 All is Dust
2 Walking Ballista
4 Tks
2 Sower
2 Endbringer
4 Ugin
2 Newlamog
4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
3 vesuva
4 Ancient Tomb
3 City of Traitors
3 Temple
2 Eye of Ugin
1 Wastes
1 Karakas

Sb:
4 Leyline black
3 Leyline white
3 warping Wail
2 Wurmcoil
1 Endbringer
1 contortion
1 all is Dust

Thoughts: I'm tired of losing to poor draws which are only highlighted by the fixing my opponents get to do with brainstorm. I don't think karn will be an answer, because I think everyone is vastly underestimating how useless the +1 is. It's not gateway because quality isn't the same as advantage. Portal does nothing the turn you play it. At that point what's left? Jayemdae Tome? Staff of Nin?

[caprino]

Nice job caprino


I see you're back to a version of the old "Pathy" list :-))

How is the Leyline + Helm combo from SB working? Is it a surprise trick?

Yes old pathy list :)

Helm is good card in side, i think 1 Urborg main deck is necessary for leyline of the void

[kingtk3]

Today top 4 (split) a tournament 47 player

4 cloudpost
4 glimmerpost
4 ancient tomb
4 vesuva
3 city of traitors
2 eye of ugin
2 eldrazi temple
2 thespian

4 Grim monolith
4 chalice
4 Voltaic key
2 basalt
3 trinisphere
3 dynamo

4 ugin
1 all is dust

4 Seer
3 ulamog
1 kozilek new
1 kozilek butcher
1 emrakul old

Side
4 leyline
4 ensnaring bridge
4 warping wail
3 helm obbedience


G1 win 2 1 vs bug delver
G2 win 2 0 vs eldrazi Stompy
G3 win 2 0 vs dark deph
G4 win 2 0 vs bug leovold
G5 win 2 0 vs eldrazi ramp
G6 id

Quarterfinal win 2 1 reanimator br

Split top 4... Very very good!!!!


Gratz Caprino!!! can you write something about your matches? Like mulligan decisions, planning ahead in terms of what land or piece play first (your side is so streamlined that I don't think it's hard to imagine your side ins and outs).

Thanks!

[Cryoclasm]

Some nice Mengucci content (5-0'd a league) : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pg2LVVASbeU

Kinda like the list (close to what I'm playing at the moment), although I'm really doubtful about Karn in Legacy, and more and more about Kozilek V2 too (Emrakul V2 is way better in many scenarios).

Hello Chris!

Can you share your list, please?

I am still playing with something closer to midrange list which I find very satisfying. I am still not sure whether Warping Veils should be in the main or completely in the side.

4 Ancient Tomb
2 City of Traitors
4 Cloudpost
4 Eldrazi Temple
3 Eye of Ugin
4 Glimmerpost
2 Vesuva
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth


4 Chalice of the Void
3 Thran Dynamo
4 Grim Monolith
3 Trinisphere

2 Endbringer
3 Reality Smasher
3 Oblivion Sower
4 Thought-Knot Seer
1 Kozilek, New
1 Kozilek, Annihilator
2 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger

3 All Is Dust
2 Warping Wail

SB:
4 Leyline of the Void
2 Ratchet Bomb
3 Sorcerous Spyglass
1 Warping Veil
2 Thorn of Ametyst
3 Helm of Obedience

[caprino]

Nice job caprino


I see you're back to a version of the old "Pathy" list :-))

How is the Leyline + Helm combo from SB working? Is it a surprise trick?

Pathy I look on mtgo challenge you play a list 3 azor's and 2 crystal vein main deck...is good cards?

Why you play 2 kozilek new? I think 1 kozilek butcher is important main deck vs moon deck, painter, show and tell ecc

[ChrisDissent]

Hello Chris!

Can you share your list, please?

Hi !

I'm switching a lot these times, so I'm not sure I'm the one to follow right now (for solid build, you can check MGB's one). Right now I'm testing Mengucci's build but MD : -1 Karn, -1 Endbringer, -1 Kozilek V2, / +1 Emrakul V2 +1 Ulamog V2 +1 Vesuva, SB : -3 Ratchet, -1 WW,-1 Thorn / +3 Bridge, +1 Endbringer, +1 All is Dust
I'm not sure the Oblivion Sower's package make the cut here. If not, I'll probably switch back to +2 Thespian Stage, Endbringer/Voltaic Key/Spyglass and one more high end threat.

Depending on the meta, I either play that heavy Ugin build, or something more midrangy with Sower, Ballista, Endbringer and/or some Smashers, with Wurmcoil in the sideboard (see MD Ghost's builds for reference).

Sorry for these messy information but I'm in testing phase ;)

You should either go down on mana rocks (at least 1 Dynamo) if you go the midrange route as it looks like, or consider adding some numbers of Ugin.
WW always appear to me as a sideboard card but soem play it MD with good results, so matter of taste.

Good luck ;)

[MGB]

Pathy I look on mtgo challenge you play a list 3 azor's and 2 crystal vein main deck...is good cards?

Why you play 2 kozilek new? I think 1 kozilek butcher is important main deck vs moon deck, painter, show and tell ecc

I was just testing Azor's Gateway... I think, maybe it is not a good card - too much card disadvantage and it forces you into tough decisions (exile Ulamog/Ugin, etc, to flip).

Kozilek 2.0 seems just better when you cast it than the old Kozilek, doesn't it? Draw 5+ cards seems a lot better than just 4... I don't really see too many painter decks, and how is it better against Show and Tell?

[ChrisDissent]

I don't really see too many painter decks, and how is it better against Show and Tell?

Corner cases when they go for Show and Tell => Emrakul, then you swing for annihilator 4

[Hanni]

I was just testing Azor's Gateway... I think, maybe it is not a good card - too much card disadvantage and it forces you into tough decisions (exile Ulamog/Ugin, etc, to flip).

Kozilek 2.0 seems just better when you cast it than the old Kozilek, doesn't it? Draw 5+ cards seems a lot better than just 4... I don't really see too many painter decks, and how is it better against Show and Tell?

How often do you need to draw more than 4 cards after casting a 10cc Eldrazi? I prefer the Butcher because the annihilator 4 trigger is pretty nasty against most decks.

[FourDogsinaHorseSuit]

What about the counter effect?

[caprino]

I was just testing Azor's Gateway... I think, maybe it is not a good card - too much card disadvantage and it forces you into tough decisions (exile Ulamog/Ugin, etc, to flip).

Kozilek 2.0 seems just better when you cast it than the old Kozilek, doesn't it? Draw 5+ cards seems a lot better than just 4... I don't really see too many painter decks, and how is it better against Show and Tell?

In big tournaments Nebraska war vs sneak and show my oppo cast turn 3 show and tell...griselbrand vs kozilek butcher...gg

I think 1 kozilek butcher and 1 kozilek 2.0 main deck is good

[caprino]

One question... Vs food chain and aluren chalice and trinisphere side out? Thanks

[ChrisDissent]

Trinisphere hoses badly Aluren, I would not side it out there cause they have to answer it or they're force to turn to aggro mode with 1/1's.

[Cryoclasm]

On the other side, you definitely want it side out against Food chain.
BTW, this deck is one more reason why I want ratchet bombs in SB so badly.
You need to have instant removal of enchantments and creatures.
About Kozilek: I found best to have both of them in main, though v2 underperforms in my meta. I mean, it could easily be any 8-10cc threat. It doesn't matter much.
AS for countering with his ability, I did it only once when I countered food chain by discarding Basalt monolith.

[FourDogsinaHorseSuit]

One question... Vs food chain and aluren chalice and trinisphere side out? Thanks

Trinisphere is a mull-to against alluren, turning off the combo and the cascade.
Food chain I took them out.

[FourDogsinaHorseSuit]

On the other side, you definitely want it side out against Food chain.
BTW, this deck is one more reason why I want ratchet bombs in SB so badly.
You need to have instant removal of enchantments and creatures.
About Kozilek: I found best to have both of them in main, though v2 underperforms in my meta. I mean, it could easily be any 8-10cc threat. It doesn't matter much.
AS for countering with his ability, I did it only once when I countered food chain by discarding Basalt monolith.
Scour from Existence is colorless and makes people yearn for tribal.

[massd]

Played a very similar list to what Mengucci did 5-0 the other day in GP Santiago side events finished 1-2.

Match 1: vs Infect
G1: He countered T1 Chalice, then Spyglass for nexus go in. I didn't draw well and he finally killed me with Blighted Agent + 2 pump effects
G2: He countered T2 Trinisphere. He killed me a couple of turns later with Inkmoth nexus + pump effects.

Match 2: vs Grixis Delver
G1: Won damage race against 2 deathrite shamans with 2 TKS. Close game
G2: He applied a fast clock with delver + shaman. Nothing to do.
G3: Chalice for 1 gets countered, but Trinisphere resolves. It gave me enough time to cast a couple of Grim Monoliths and Ugin after that (he missed a cabal therapy guess).

Match 3: vs Eldrazi Stompy
G1: He goes nuts with 2 Mimic T1, 2 Matter Reshaper T2, TKS T3.
G2: Didn't draw any bridge to help me estabilize. It was a horrible MU, as our removal is useless against them and their ratchet bombs can deal with bridges.

This was my first tournament with the deck, and the deck itself isn't bad, but would need to add some wurmcoil engines somewhere in the 75.

[caprino]

https://youtu.be/vyiqwpq1DsA

Video G4 vs bug leovold last tournament.

[Tucane]

https://youtu.be/vyiqwpq1DsA

Video G4 vs bug leovold last tournament.

Nice 2-0 there^° Was almost over before it started:-)

[caprino]

https://youtu.be/XgaAViRQc48

Vs mirror.

[MGB]

I've been testing 3 Sorcerous Spyglass in main and 1 in SB (cutting Azor's Gateway or Basalt Monoliths) and it seems pretty good so far. 3-2 and 4-1 in leagues... I think the Spyglass is challenging to play because you need to know what to name but when you figure out the best thing to name in every match-up it can be quite powerful.

[caprino]

I've been testing 3 Sorcerous Spyglass in main and 1 in SB (cutting Azor's Gateway or Basalt Monoliths) and it seems pretty good so far. 3-2 and 4-1 in leagues... I think the Spyglass is challenging to play because you need to know what to name but when you figure out the best thing to name in every match-up it can be quite powerful.

Yesterday I test this list

4 cloudpost
4 glimmerpost
4 vesuva
4 thespian
2 eye of ugin
4 ancient tomb
3 city of traitors
2 eldrazi temple

4 Grim monolith
4 chalice
2 dynamo
2 basalt
3 Voltaic key
4 ugin
2 all is dust

4 Seer
3 ulamog
1 kozilek new
1 kozilek butcher
1 ballista/emrakul new /emrakul old
2 wurmcoil

Side
4 leyline
4 ensnaring
4 warping wail
3 trinisphere

What do you think?

4 1 in league.

[Tucane]

I've been testing 3 Sorcerous Spyglass in main and 1 in SB (cutting Azor's Gateway or Basalt Monoliths) and it seems pretty good so far. 3-2 and 4-1 in leagues... I think the Spyglass is challenging to play because you need to know what to name but when you figure out the best thing to name in every match-up it can be quite powerful.

It is very situational, but it's hard to not name Wasteland against a deck known to have it.. even in the face of other goodstuff like PW's, Aether Vial or even Thespian Stage.

Also, the information gained is crucial for playing through permission; once I played through a hand of 2x Force, Daze, 2x Snare, Dual, Delver...with the info from a first turn Spyglass. It ended with me baiting out the Forces by playing TKS and Wurmcoil past Daze... then Ugin ftw:-)

[janchu88]

What do you think?

i think you could lose with more dignity :really:

https://abload.de/img/unbenannt127um9.png (http://abload.de/image.php?img=unbenannt127um9.png)

just saying... :rolleyes:

[FourDogsinaHorseSuit]

i think you could lose with more dignity :really:

https://abload.de/img/unbenannt127um9.png (http://abload.de/image.php?img=unbenannt127um9.png)

just saying... :rolleyes:

Lol. What happened?

[MGB]

Italians are very passionate people. :)

[caprino]

i think you could lose with more dignity :really:

https://abload.de/img/unbenannt127um9.png (http://abload.de/image.php?img=unbenannt127um9.png)

just saying... :rolleyes:

LOL you play more slow... And I tilt :)

Sorry. Cya

[caprino]

Italians are very passionate people. :)

Yes :)

[caprino]

It is very situational, but it's hard to not name Wasteland against a deck known to have it.. even in the face of other goodstuff like PW's, Aether Vial or even Thespian Stage.

Also, the information gained is crucial for playing through permission; once I played through a hand of 2x Force, Daze, 2x Snare, Dual, Delver...with the info from a first turn Spyglass. It ended with me baiting out the Forces by playing TKS and Wurmcoil past Daze... then Ugin ftw:-)
Write you list thanks

[Tucane]

Write you list thanks

Currently I'm testing a streamlined list with focus on fast and consistent ramp. Thinking about adding Ugin#4 and playing SB Helms.

Wincons: 16
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Conduit of Ruin
3 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
3 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
1 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth

Spells:20
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Sorcerous Spyglass
4 Voltaic Key
4 Grim Monolith
4 Thran Dynamo

Lands:25
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Cloudpost
4 Eldrazi Temple
3 Eye of Ugin
4 Glimmerpost
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth

Sideboard:15
3 Wurmcoil Engine
4 Warping Wail
4 Leyline of Sanctity
4 Leyline of the Void

[caprino]

Currently I'm testing a streamlined list with focus on fast and consistent ramp. Thinking about adding Ugin#4 and playing SB Helms.

Wincons: 16
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Conduit of Ruin
3 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
3 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
1 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth

Spells:20
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Sorcerous Spyglass
4 Voltaic Key
4 Grim Monolith
4 Thran Dynamo

Lands:25
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Cloudpost
4 Eldrazi Temple
3 Eye of Ugin
4 Glimmerpost
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth

Sideboard:15
3 Wurmcoil Engine
4 Warping Wail
4 Leyline of Sanctity
4 Leyline of the Void

4 conduit is good? I prefer oblivion sower
+1 ugin + Helm....out?

I think out 3 wurmcoil and +3 Helm

[JeezXrist]

Decklist (http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=18749&d=317241&f=LE)

Went 4-0-2 for my troubles

The list is good to any non-combo / burn deck.

[caprino]

Decklist (http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=18749&d=317241&f=LE)

Went 4-0-2 for my troubles

The list is good to any non-combo / burn deck.
Do you like emrakul old? Casting cost very hard

[Tucane]

4 conduit is good? I prefer oblivion sower
+1 ugin + Helm....out?

I think out 3 wurmcoil and +3 Helm

It's good when there is lots of discard running around. Also it ramps and finds a 10-drop when Eye isn't around... lost way too many games due to either drawing too many big eldrazis or drawing none. I'm more happy with Conduit than the other 6cc options (they all suck in their own way imo).

Conduit out, Ugin in:-)

Unsure about the SB, I think we need Wurmcoil's vs Burn/BUG/EldraziStompy.

[JeezXrist]

Do you like emrakul old? Casting cost very hard

It depends.

I was to use Emrakul, the Promised End that day, but I scouted for a bit before the tournament and I saw some Miracles in the meta and made a few adjustments to the deck and used Emrakul, the Aeons Torn instead.

Yeah, the new Emrakul is good but I prefer the old one to the control matchups since she is much more devastating than the other one. :D

[caprino]

It depends.

I was to use Emrakul, the Promised End that day, but I scouted for a bit before the tournament and I saw some Miracles in the meta and made a few adjustments to the deck and used Emrakul, the Aeons Torn instead.

Yeah, the new Emrakul is good but I prefer the old one to the control matchups since she is much more devastating than the other one. :D
I see 4x leyline white in side...you side in vs burn and ant right?

[Tucane]

I see 4x leyline white in side...you side in vs burn and ant right?

Yes, vs Burn, AnT/TES, Belcher/SI, Pox or anything with lots of discard.

[caprino]

4 cloudpost
4 glimmerpost
4 ancient tomb
3 city of traitors
3 vesuva
2 eye of ugin
2 eldrazi temple
2 thespian stage
1 Urborg
1 karakas

4 Grim monolith
4 chalice
3 trinisphere
2 Voltaic key
2 dynamo
2 basalt monolith
2 coercive portal
4 ugin
1 all is dust

4 Seer
3 ulamog
1 kozilek butcher
1 ballista
1 kozilek new

Side
4 leyline
4 ensnaring bridge
2 warping wail
2 ratchet bomb
1surgical extraction
2 endbringer

What do you think of this list?

[caprino]

Another list that I thought is this

4 cloudpost
4 glimmerpost
4 ancient tomb
3 vesuva
3 city of traitors
2 eye
2 eldrazi temple
2 thespian
1 karakas
1 Urborg

4 chalice
4 Grim monolith
4 warping wail
4 Spatial
4 ugin
1 all is dust
2 trinisphere

4 Seer
3 ulamog
1 kozilek butcher
1 kozilek new
1 ballista
1 emrakul

This version is controll.

I wait for comments

[Tucane]

Another list that I thought is this

4 cloudpost
4 glimmerpost
4 ancient tomb
3 vesuva
3 city of traitors
2 eye
2 eldrazi temple
2 thespian
1 karakas
1 Urborg

4 chalice
4 Grim monolith
4 warping wail
4 Spatial
4 ugin
1 all is dust
2 trinisphere

4 Seer
3 ulamog
1 kozilek butcher
1 kozilek new
1 ballista
1 emrakul

This version is controll.

I wait for comments

I wouldn't play 3-sphere in the Control-version... Too few rocks to leverage it efficiently imo. Rather Spyglass or more AID.

Other than that both lists look good:-)

Is it new emrakul in this list?

[caprino]

I wouldn't play 3-sphere in the Control-version... Too few rocks to leverage it efficiently imo. Rather Spyglass or more AID.

Other than that both lists look good:-)

Is it new emrakul in this list?

I think in this version old emrakul is good

You think - 3 trinisphere +3 spyglass?

[Cocheloco]

So cool to see you playing Caprino!

[caprino]

So cool to see you playing Caprino!
Thanks
You see my two video? Do you like?

[Tucane]

I think in this version old emrakul is good

You think - 3 trinisphere +3 spyglass?

Yes, Spyglass is perfect for control:-)

[caprino]

Yes, Spyglass is perfect for control:-)

Ok I test - 2 trinisphere +2 spyglass

Side
4 leyline
4 ensnaring bridge

And? Help me

All is dust /trinisphere /ratchet bomb /endbringer /wurmcoil /leyline white/ Helm.... Ecc

[Tucane]

Ok I test - 2 trinisphere +2 spyglass

Side
4 leyline
4 ensnaring bridge

And? Help me

All is dust /trinisphere /ratchet bomb /endbringer /wurmcoil /leyline white/ Helm.... Ecc

Depends.

But 3x Wurmcoil, 4x Leyline of S if you expect lots of ant/delver.

[MGB]

So when the new Karn becomes legal, are you guys all going to test him? I'm trying to figure out where and how I'm going to slot him into the deck. I feel like it's a mid-game card like Thought-Knot Seer or Endbringer, but I'm leaning toward cutting the Azor's Gateway/Sorcerous Spyglass slot for him. Thoughts?

[FourDogsinaHorseSuit]

So when the new Karn becomes legal, are you guys all going to test him? I'm trying to figure out where and how I'm going to slot him into the deck. I feel like it's a mid-game card like Thought-Knot Seer or Endbringer, but I'm leaning toward cutting the Azor's Gateway/Sorcerous Spyglass slot for him. Thoughts?
I have no plans to test him. You all will have to tell me how it goes but the "opponent choice" is enough to just pass. Fatestealing myself seems bad.

[hofzge]

I have no plans to test him. You all will have to tell me how it goes but the "opponent choice" is enough to just pass. Fatestealing myself seems bad.

The problem I see is that does not really protect itself - It can replace Coercive Portal or other card advantage stuff like Azor's Gateway, but it costs real mana and not Eldrazi mana and it does little to stabilize you. On the other hand it makes creatures from out of your otherwise useless Monoliths and Thran Dynamos late in the game.
I guess 1-2 are ok as it is another planeswalker that draws you cards and gets you to your All is Dust/Ugin to reset the board or Endbringer/Oblivion Sower to stabilize.

[JeezXrist]

So when the new Karn becomes legal, are you guys all going to test him? I'm trying to figure out where and how I'm going to slot him into the deck. I feel like it's a mid-game card like Thought-Knot Seer or Endbringer, but I'm leaning toward cutting the Azor's Gateway/Sorcerous Spyglass slot for him. Thoughts?

Will definitely playtest this new Karn. I'm thinking of adding it instead of Coercive Portals

[FourDogsinaHorseSuit]

Today top 4 (split) a tournament 47 player

4 cloudpost
4 glimmerpost
4 ancient tomb
4 vesuva
3 city of traitors
2 eye of ugin
2 eldrazi temple
2 thespian

4 Grim monolith
4 chalice
4 Voltaic key
2 basalt
3 trinisphere
3 dynamo

4 ugin
1 all is dust

4 Seer
3 ulamog
1 kozilek new
1 kozilek butcher
1 emrakul old

Side
4 leyline
4 ensnaring bridge
4 warping wail
3 helm obbedience


G1 win 2 1 vs bug delver
G2 win 2 0 vs eldrazi Stompy
G3 win 2 0 vs dark deph
G4 win 2 0 vs bug leovold
G5 win 2 0 vs eldrazi ramp
G6 id

Quarterfinal win 2 1 reanimator br

Split top 4... Very very good!!!!
Last night I went 3-1 running this list but with a few minor changes.
-1 Newlamog, 1 Kozilek butcher, 2 thespian.
+ 2 ballista, 1 Karakas, 1 Wastes.
Also I had a much different sideboard.
-4 ensnaring bridge, 3 helm, 2 Wail
+ 3 Endbringer, 2 Wurmcoil, 1 dust, 3 Spyglass

2-1 W vs Grixis Delver
0-2 L vs Spiral Tide
2-0 vs Tezzerator
2-0 vs Grixis Delver

[Tucane]

Last night I went 3-1 running this list but with a few minor changes.
-1 Newlamog, 1 Kozilek butcher, 2 thespian.
+ 2 ballista, 1 Karakas, 1 Wastes.
Also I had a much different sideboard.
-4 ensnaring bridge, 3 helm, 2 Wail
+ 3 Endbringer, 2 Wurmcoil, 1 dust, 3 Spyglass

2-1 W vs Grixis Delver
0-2 L vs Spiral Tide
2-0 vs Tezzerator
2-0 vs Grixis Delver

Nice run!

Is Spiral Tide a bad MU or was it just bad luck/draws?

Haven't faced it so far...

[caprino]

Last night I went 3-1 running this list but with a few minor changes.
-1 Newlamog, 1 Kozilek butcher, 2 thespian.
+ 2 ballista, 1 Karakas, 1 Wastes.
Also I had a much different sideboard.
-4 ensnaring bridge, 3 helm, 2 Wail
+ 3 Endbringer, 2 Wurmcoil, 1 dust, 3 Spyglass

2-1 W vs Grixis Delver
0-2 L vs Spiral Tide
2-0 vs Tezzerator
2-0 vs Grixis Delver

Nice.

Why wastes main deck?

I think 4x ensnaring bridge in side is important vs bad matchup (lands.. Dark deph...eldrazi Stompy... Elf ecc...) is impossible win without ensnaring bridge

[FourDogsinaHorseSuit]

Nice run!

Is Spiral Tide a bad MU or was it just bad luck/draws?

Haven't faced it so far...
I saw zero pieces of hate game one, and mulled to 5 game two, playing a trinisphere on turn five or so. It's a MU that you can win on turn one with a chalice, and can slow down with a TKS but you need to play them and not have them sit in your deck.

Nice.

Why wastes main deck?

I think 4x ensnaring bridge in side is important vs bad matchup (lands.. Dark deph...eldrazi Stompy... Elf ecc...) is impossible win without ensnaring bridge

People in my meta are trying to get cute using Path to Exile. A copy of wastes keeps them honest.

I don't own any bridges, so I had to go with the next best thing: Endbringer.

[Cocheloco]

Thanks
You see my two video? Do you like?

Yes. The guy playing BUG didn't look like if he knew what he was playing against. Why did get use abrupt decay on your grim monolith which needs mana to untap???

Cheers

[caprino]

Depends.

But 3x Wurmcoil, 4x Leyline of S if you expect lots of ant/delver.
I think 4x Spatial main deck is good vs delver deck.
Today I test this side

4 leyline
4 ensnaring bridge
4 leyline white
2 spyglass
1 trinisphere

[caprino]

Today 4 1 in league for this list

4 cloudpost
4 glimmerpost
4 ancient tomb
4 vesuva
4 thespian
2 eldrazi temple
1 city
1 Urborg
1 karakas
1 eye of ugin

4 chalice
4 Grim monolith
4 spyglass
4 ugin
4 warping wail
4 Spatial contortion
1 all is dust

4 Seer
2 ulamog
1 kozilek butcher
1 kozilek new
1 emrakul old

Side
4 leyline
4 ensnaring bridge
4 leyline white
2 wurmcoil
1 surgical

W vs elf 2 1...ant 2 0...death and taxes 2 0...nic fit 2 0
L vs ant 1 2

[Tucane]

Today 4 1 in league for this list

4 cloudpost
4 glimmerpost
4 ancient tomb
4 vesuva
4 thespian
2 eldrazi temple
1 city
1 Urborg
1 karakas
1 eye of ugin

4 chalice
4 Grim monolith
4 spyglass
4 ugin
4 warping wail
4 Spatial contortion
1 ugin

4 Seer
2 ulamog
1 kozilek butcher
1 kozilek new
1 emrakul old

Side
4 leyline
4 ensnaring bridge
4 leyline white
2 wurmcoil
1 surgical

W vs elf 2 1...ant 2 0...death and taxes 2 0...nic fit 2 0
L vs ant 1 2

Did you get to drop Leyline of Sanctity in the games vs ant?

No 6cc drops looks interesting, might try something similiar:-)

[caprino]

Did you get to drop Leyline of Sanctity in the games vs ant?

No 6cc drops looks interesting, might try something similiar:-)
Yea leyline vs ant is very good...my oppo no scoop tendrill and play storm for 18 goblin....my turn i play all is dust and win game

Yes no drops 6cc...my first idea is out 4 Grim monolith and play 2 endbringer and 2 sower.

[ChrisDissent]

I think 4x ensnaring bridge in side is important vs bad matchup (lands.. Dark deph...eldrazi Stompy... Elf ecc...) is impossible win without ensnaring bridge

I think Elves is a really good match up for us. Some Warping Wail/Spatial Contortion in the sideboard would be more efficient there than Bridge.

[caprino]

I think Elves is a really good match up for us. Some Warping Wail/Spatial Contortion in the sideboard would be more efficient there than Bridge.
Yes warping and Spatial main deck is very good.

What do you think for this list?

[Tucane]

I think Elves is a really good match up for us. Some Warping Wail/Spatial Contortion in the sideboard would be more efficient there than Bridge.

Warping Wail gets bonus points for countering Natural Order:-)

Being on the draw vs Elves can be frustrating though, sometimes they are insanely fast.

Btw, can we beat infect in a consistent manner? The best things i can come up with is quick ramping a ballista @2 and the obvious T1 chalice on the play.

[JeezXrist]

Btw, can we beat infect in a consistent manner? The best things i can come up with is quick ramping a ballista @2 and the obvious T1 chalice on the play.

There was a build I used when I have 2 Cavern of Souls and I SB'd 3 Spellskite since there's a lot of Infect and Charbelchers that time. I have 3 main Ballista and boarded in 3 Spatial Contortions

The resolved Spellskite won me the game.

[caprino]

Yes. The guy playing BUG didn't look like if he knew what he was playing against. Why did get use abrupt decay on your grim monolith which needs mana to untap???

Cheers
I play city of traitors tap monolith and city 5 mana and play dynamo..1 mana in pool tap dynamo 3 +1 mana in pool... Untap Grim monolith

[Tucane]

There was a build I used when I have 2 Cavern of Souls and I SB'd 3 Spellskite since there's a lot of Infect and Charbelchers that time. I have 3 main Ballista and boarded in 3 Spatial Contortions

The resolved Spellskite won me the game.

Thanks! Never though of Spellskite:-)

[caprino]

Yesterday I test my new list

4 cloudpost
4 glimmerpost
4 ancient tomb
4 city of traitors
2 eye of ugin
2 eldrazi temple
2 crystal vein

4 chalice
4 Voltaic key
4 Grim monolith
4 dynamo
4 basalt
3 trinisphere
4 ugin
1 all is dust

4 Seer
3 ulamog
1 kozilek butcher
1 kozilek 2.0
1 emrakul old

Side
4 leyline
4 ensnaring bridge
4 warping wail
3 Helm

Win 3 0 in single match vs ant 2 0... Loam 2 0...reanimator br 2 0

[AmokPL]

Does the Helm combo work fine without Urborg?

[caprino]

Does the Helm combo work fine without Urborg?

Yes 1urborg main deck is good.

I think - 1 city +1 Urborg...i like 1 karakas main deck

[Tucane]

Yesterday I test my new list

4 cloudpost
4 glimmerpost
4 ancient tomb
4 city of traitors
2 eye of ugin
2 eldrazi temple
2 crystal vein

4 chalice
4 Voltaic key
4 Grim monolith
4 dynamo
4 basalt
3 trinisphere
4 ugin
1 all is dust

4 Seer
3 ulamog
1 kozilek butcher
1 kozilek 2.0
1 emrakul old

Side
4 leyline
4 ensnaring bridge
4 warping wail
3 Helm

Win 3 0 in single match vs ant 2 0... Loam 2 0...reanimator br 2 0

Nice! :-)

No mulligans or mana issues on 22 land? I see you're all in on the rocks though:-)

[caprino]

Nice! :-)

No mulligans or mana issues on 22 land? I see you're all in on the rocks though:-)

I mull only twice.
I think this list is particular and very funny

I can not find the space for the karakas

[Tucane]

I mull only twice.
I think this list is particular and very funny

I can not find the space for the karakas

I like it:-) More rocks is good vs Lands etc.

I'm gonna try something similiar next time...

I would cut the All is Dust for a land/karakas

[caprino]

https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/1002616#paper

My 5 0 a few days ago

[caprino]

I like it:-) More rocks is good vs Lands etc.

I'm gonna try something similiar next time...

I would cut the All is Dust for a land/karakas

Mmm I think 1 copy all is dust is good vs revoker(call ugin) prelate spyglass needle ecc...

Yesterday 4 1 in league on mtgo

W vs mud stax, threshold, merfolks, steel Stompy
Lose vs aluren

I cut 1 Voltaic key (tot 3) and play 1 karakas

[Sisyphos]

Mmm I think 1 copy all is dust is good vs revoker(call ugin) prelate spyglass needle ecc...
You do realize that All is Dust does absolutely nothing against 3 of the 4 cards you call it good against?

[caprino]

You do realize that All is Dust does absolutely nothing against 3 of the 4 cards you call it good against?

Yes. I put one copy all is dust to get around those cards I wrote

If they block me ugin I can have all is dust as an answer

[nakapuff]

Yes. I put one copy all is dust to get around those cards I wrote

If they block me ugin I can have all is dust as an answer

Your deck was featured here: https://www.channelfireball.com/articles/deck-of-the-day-eldrazi-post-legacy/

Also I have saw so many different builds of this deck and I would like to ask what do you think about versions that use Oblivion Sower/Endbringer? Are they good in Big Eldrazi or they are not so good right now?

4 copies of Thran Dynamo are really necessary or do you have an updated version without them?

[JeezXrist]

Also, I have seen so many different builds of this deck and I would like to ask what do you think about versions that use Oblivion Sower/Endbringer? Are they good in Big Eldrazi or they are not so good right now?

My version uses Oblivion Sower and Endbringers since the meta here consists of Wasteland decks and Show and Tell.

I play Sowers to snatch extra lands and hose threats. It's also good against Aggro Eldrazi since it is much bigger than their normal creatures.

Endbringers is for Show and Tell, Reanimators and Land/Loam decks.

[caprino]

Your deck was featured here: https://www.channelfireball.com/articles/deck-of-the-day-eldrazi-post-legacy/

Also I have saw so many different builds of this deck and I would like to ask what do you think about versions that use Oblivion Sower/Endbringer? Are they good in Big Eldrazi or they are not so good right now?

4 copies of Thran Dynamo are really necessary or do you have an updated version without them?

In this moment I test a list very fast ramp 4x dynamo 4x Grim monolith 4x basalt 4x key.... And play 12 lands double mana (4 city 4 ancient tomb 4 crystal vein)

[zerozero]

I split the finals in my local legacy 1K this past weekend. Went 1-1 vs grixis delver, beat Death and Taxes 2x, Painter 1x (version with white) to top 8. Then Beat elves, a mid-range UBW goodstuff deck, and split with a grixis delver player.

This is what my deck looks like these days:

// Lands
4 [EXP] Ancient Tomb
2 [EX] City of Traitors
4 [MR] Cloudpost
4 [ROE] Eldrazi Temple
3 [WWK] Eye of Ugin
4 [SOM] Glimmerpost
1 [PLC] Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2 [TSP] Vesuva
1 [GTC] Thespian's Stage

// Creatures
4 [OGW] Thought-Knot Seer
1 [ROE] Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
3 [BFZ] Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
2 [C14] Wurmcoil Engine
2 [AER] Walking Ballista
1 [BFZ] Conduit of Ruin
2 [REL] Endbringer

// Spells
3 [ROE] All Is Dust
4 [MR] Chalice of the Void
3 [US] Voltaic Key
4 [UL] Grim Monolith
3 [UD] Thran Dynamo
3 [DS] Trinisphere

// Sideboard
SB: 3 [OGW] Spatial Contortion
SB: 2 [OGW] Warping Wail
SB: 4 [GP] Leyline of the Void
SB: 1 [HOU] Mirage Mirror
SB: 3 [XLN] Sorcerous Spyglass

The other 2 slots in the sideboard I like to try different things in, like Confusion in the Ranks, or Emrakul, or Ratchet Bomb.

I don't know why people bother with planeswalkers in this deck. The problem is not the late game, where your top end is better than anyone else's, it's surviving till then. I've cut some mana (a thespian's stage and a basalt monolith)and now maindeck the Endbringers (used to be sideboarded), and the deck has been running pretty smoothly, giving you better game against aggro-control while you're still favored against almost any mid-range deck. Wurmcoil engine and Walking Ballista are good against a variety of decks and help you stabilize early, and are worth running even if they don't get cost reduced by eldrazi temple or eye of ugin.

[FourDogsinaHorseSuit]

You bother with planeswalkers because those 3 all is dust you're running? Imagine if you could cast then before the board is clogged, and they do 3 damage a turn and if they don't stop it you get to ultimate for lucky sevens. 🎰!

[TTX]

You bother with planeswalkers because those 3 all is dust you're running? Imagine if you could cast then before the board is clogged, and they do 3 damage a turn and if they don't stop it you get to ultimate for lucky sevens. [emoji620]!

This. If you’re playing All Is Dust, consider converting it into a win con via Ugin. Also consider the corner case in which your opponent has a Sigarda in play...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[caprino]

This. If you’re playing All Is Dust, consider converting it into a win con via Ugin. Also consider the corner case in which your opponent has a Sigarda in play...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I think split ugin and all is dust is good.

Ugin is very strong is a win coin. I win more game 4x ugin main deck

[zerozero]

All is dust is cost reduced by eldrazi temple and eye of ugin. I can do it quickly vs, say, elves more often than you can do it with a planeswalker. Eye of Ugin and eldrazi temple contribute 4 mana to All is Dust, and 1 mana to Ugin; that alone makes me not want to run it. Grixis delver is running maindeck spell pierces, in case you hadn't noticed, so Ugin actually costs you 10 real mana to be safe; I almost always have excess mana when I All is dust to pay for daze/pierce, or even thalia. I'd love it if someone ran a sigarda out; by the time they do that I have a wurmcoil engine or ulamog out on the table. I'm probably not losing that one. I'd be more worried about stony silence than sigarda.

No one answered my question. Why run planeswalkers when the problem isn't the late game, it's surviving till turn 5? Having more expensive things doesn't solve anything, your top end already dominates. You can't even drop a planeswalker when your opponent show and tells; at least kozilek and ulamog and endbringer (or emrakul which I sometimes side in) give you a chance. Against unfair decks, you want speed. Against mana disruption, you want speed. If wurmcoil engine weren't so strong, I'd be worried about the fact that it costs 6 real mana. I can't imagine I'd want to go above that for anything non-eldrazi. I understand Ugin is strong, but I just see more mulligans in my future if I run him , or it just getting stranded in my hand after a wasteland and a revoker naming grim monolith.

The only planeswalker I'd consider is the new Karn coming out, since 4 mana is pretty reasonable and it isn't card disadvantage. Even then, it's more of a mid game card, and I already have 3 Eye of Ugin and one conduit of ruin to give me consistency then.

[ChrisDissent]

All is dust is cost reduced by eldrazi temple and eye of ugin. I can do it quickly vs, say, elves more often than you can do it with a planeswalker. Eye of Ugin and eldrazi temple contribute 4 mana to All is Dust, and 1 mana to Ugin; that alone makes me not want to run it. Grixis delver is running maindeck spell pierces, in case you hadn't noticed, so Ugin actually costs you 10 real mana to be safe; I almost always have excess mana when I All is dust to pay for daze/pierce, or even thalia. I'd love it if someone ran a sigarda out; by the time they do that I have a wurmcoil engine or ulamog out on the table. I'm probably not losing that one. I'd be more worried about stony silence than sigarda.

No one answered my question. Why run planeswalkers when the problem isn't the late game, it's surviving till turn 5? Having more expensive things doesn't solve anything, your top end already dominates. You can't even drop a planeswalker when your opponent show and tells; at least kozilek and ulamog and endbringer (or emrakul which I sometimes side in) give you a chance. Against unfair decks, you want speed. Against mana disruption, you want speed. If wurmcoil engine weren't so strong, I'd be worried about the fact that it costs 6 real mana. I can't imagine I'd want to go above that for anything non-eldrazi. I understand Ugin is strong, but I just see more mulligans in my future if I run him , or it just getting stranded in my hand after a wasteland and a revoker naming grim monolith.

The only planeswalker I'd consider is the new Karn coming out, since 4 mana is pretty reasonable and it isn't card disadvantage. Even then, it's more of a mid game card, and I already have 3 Eye of Ugin and one conduit of ruin to give me consistency then.

There's two different approaches, and both have their strengths and weaknesses.
Talking about the Ugin build (one that I'm not used to), that typically doesn't pack that much AiD, you want to play a lot of mana rocks and being able to lend an Ugin asap. One being countered isn't that problematic, as you'll be able to cast another top end threat the turn right after. For combo, you have Chalice/Trinisphere to stop it, plus a bunch of Ensnaring Bridges in the side for SaT/DD. The deck can lend Ugin or Ulamog really quickly, so it's not as slow as it may look. Grixis will have to deal with Chalice/Trini, then TKS, probably wasting time using Wasteland to stop you. Unless they go really aggro, the game should be yours. Post side, Wurmcoil may shine there.

Then you're probably on the midrangy strategy, with more midsized eldrazi (Oblivion Sower, Endbringer, Conduit of Ruin, sometimes Smasher) and there you play more AiD than Ugin, playing 4x Temple and 3x Eye of Ugin.

The choice is meta dependent.

Against unfair decks, you want lock pieces. Both have. Or Bridges/Leyline. Both can/do pack it in the sideboard.
Against mana disruption, you want either needle effects (Sorcerous Spyglass), or mana rocks, or playing a lot of lands so it doesn't really matter unless Wasteland can be brought back from the graveyard (in this case, Leyline is played in either version).
Grixis is manageable (50/50), I'd be way more scared by RUG Threshold cause DRS is most of the time too slow against us.

[caprino]

Today double 4 1 in league

4 ancient tomb
4 cloudpost
4 glimmerpost
3 vesuva
3 city
2 eye of ugin
2 eldrazi temple
2 thespian
1 karakas

4 Grim monolith
4 chalice
4 ugin
3 trinisphere
4 dynamo
1 all is dust
4 ensnaring bridge

4 Seer
3 ulamog
1 kozilek butcher
1 kozilek 2.0
1 emrakul old
1 ballista

Ensnaring bridge main deck is very good.

My indecision is 4x warping main deck and dynamo out

[porkypads]

Today double 4 1 in league

4 ancient tomb
4 cloudpost
4 glimmerpost
3 vesuva
3 city
2 eye of ugin
2 eldrazi temple
2 thespian
1 karakas

4 Grim monolith
4 chalice
4 ugin
3 trinisphere
4 dynamo
1 all is dust
4 ensnaring bridge

4 Seer
3 ulamog
1 kozilek butcher
1 kozilek 2.0
1 emrakul old
1 ballista

Ensnaring bridge main deck is very good.

My indecision is 4x warping main deck and dynamo out

Whats your SB look like with the bridges main deck?

[caprino]

Whats your SB look like with the bridges main deck?

4 leyline
4 warping wail
1 surgical ext
2 spine of ish sah
4 Spatial contortion

(next time i write list 4x Spatial 4x warping and 4x ensnaring main deck...3 game yesterday w vs loam and ant lose vs Belcher)

[caprino]

List Spatial and warping main deck
4 cloudpost
4 glimmerpost
4 ancient tomb
4 vesuva
4 thespian
2 eye of ugin
1 Urborg
1 karakas

4 Spatial
4 warping
4 ensnaring bridge
4 Grim monolith
4 dynamo
4 ugin

4 Seer
1 kozilek butcher
2 ulamog
1 emrakul old

Side
4 leyline
1 surgical
4 Helm
4 spyglass
2 spine of ish sah

[FourDogsinaHorseSuit]

List Spatial and warping main deck
4 cloudpost
4 glimmerpost
4 ancient tomb
4 vesuva
4 thespian
2 eye of ugin
1 Urborg
1 karakas

4 Spatial
4 warping
4 ensnaring bridge
4 Grim monolith
4 dynamo
4 ugin

4 Seer
1 kozilek butcher
2 ulamog
1 emrakul old

Side
4 leyline
1 surgical
4 Helm
4 spyglass
2 spine of ish sah


I think warping main and wail is 8 cards that don't really do much.

[porcupinetreeman]

I think warping main and wail is 8 cards that don't really do much.

I run 4 warping main and 4 spatial SB in my meta and I think that's pretty optimal. Your Delver and D+T matchups go from slightly unfavorable to very favorable.

I've been testing Ensnaring bridge, but never seem to empty my hand fast enough. Ive had too many games where they just kill it and swing for lethal.

Here's what i'm running.

4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Eldrazi Temple
3 Vesuva
1 Urborg
3 Eye of Ugin
2 City of Trators

4 Grim Monolith
3 Thran Dynamo
4 CoTV
3 Trinisphere
4 Warping Wail
2 All is Dust
2 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon

4 TKS
4 Ulamog, the Ceaseless
4 Endbringer
1 Wurmcoil


SB:

4 LoTV
4 Spatial
2 Wurmcoil
3 Sorcerous Spyglass
2 Walking Ballista

[caprino]

I run 4 warping main and 4 spatial SB in my meta and I think that's pretty optimal. Your Delver and D+T matchups go from slightly unfavorable to very favorable.

I've been testing Ensnaring bridge, but never seem to empty my hand fast enough. Ive had too many games where they just kill it and swing for lethal.

Here's what i'm running.

4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Eldrazi Temple
3 Vesuva
1 Urborg
3 Eye of Ugin
2 City of Trators

4 Grim Monolith
3 Thran Dynamo
4 CoTV
3 Trinisphere
4 Warping Wail
2 All is Dust
2 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon

4 TKS
4 Ulamog, the Ceaseless
4 Endbringer
1 Wurmcoil


SB:

4 LoTV
4 Spatial
2 Wurmcoil
3 Sorcerous Spyglass
2 Walking Ballista

Without ensnaring bridge vs dark deph...lands... Sneak and show...reanimator ecc is impossible to win

[FourDogsinaHorseSuit]

Without ensnaring bridge vs dark deph...lands... Sneak and show...reanimator ecc is impossible to win

Needle and Wail handles Sneak and Show, leyline and wail for reanimator, it's depths that needs bridge.

[Tucane]

I like the idea of MD bridge as it's good vs most of the problematic MU:s; unfortunately not that good vs Infect and Grixis Tezz though. In general the card feels good for the current metagame.

IMO this deck should be tailored in a different manner to leverage MD bridges efficently; less Kozilek and more planeswalkers seems obvious as we don't want to draw bunks of cards. More Ballistas and a manabase with less to no Eldrazi Temple aiming for more "real" mana. It would be more like the older Legend MUD lists and play a slower and more controllish game.

Just an idea I'm throwing out there... dont know if it sucks yet, haven't tested it:-)

Creatures:11
3 Walking Ballista
4 Thought-Knot Seer
3 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn

Spells:24
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Grim Monolith
4 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Thran Dynamo
4 Karn Liberated/Baby-Karn/Endbringer (Midrange slot)
4 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon

Lands:26
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Cloudpost
2 Eye of Ugin
4 Glimmerpost
2 Karakas
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Vesuva

Sideboard:15
4 Sorcerous Spyglass
3 Helm of Obedience
4 Leyline of Sanctity or Trinisphere
4 Leyline of the Void

[caprino]

I like the idea of MD bridge as it's good vs most of the problematic MU:s; unfortunately not that good vs Infect and Grixis Tezz though. In general the card feels good for the current metagame.

IMO this deck should be tailored in a different manner to leverage MD bridges efficently; less Kozilek and more planeswalkers seems obvious as we don't want to draw bunks of cards. More Ballistas and a manabase with less to no Eldrazi Temple aiming for more "real" mana. It would be more like the older Legend MUD lists and play a slower and more controllish game.

Just an idea I'm throwing out there... dont know if it sucks yet, haven't tested it:-)

Creatures:11
3 Walking Ballista
4 Thought-Knot Seer
3 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn

Spells:24
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Grim Monolith
4 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Thran Dynamo
4 Karn Liberated/Baby-Karn/Endbringer (Midrange slot)
4 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon

Lands:26
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Cloudpost
2 Eye of Ugin
4 Glimmerpost
2 Karakas
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Vesuva

Sideboard:15
4 Sorcerous Spyglass
3 Helm of Obedience
4 Leyline of Sanctity or Trinisphere
4 Leyline of the Void

Interesting...4 vesuva and 4 city I think no good. 2 copy thespian what do you think?

Today I test this list and write a report

[Tucane]

Interesting...4 vesuva and 4 city I think no good. 2 copy thespian what do you think?

Today I test this list and write a report

Yeah thespian should be as good:-)

[rmac]

So I ran the list I previously posted. Won the last chance trial against, re-animator, 4c leovold, dnt, storm. In the main event went 5-3. Burn (loss), storm(win), merfolk (win), r/w taxes (win), infect (loss), 4-c Leovold (loss).
All of the losses went three games.

[caprino]

So I ran the list I previously posted. Won the last chance trial against, re-animator, 4c leovold, dnt, storm. In the main event went 5-3. Burn (loss), storm(win), merfolk (win), r/w taxes (win), infect (loss), 4-c Leovold (loss).
All of the losses went three games.

Infect is hard matchup and burn is 50 50 depending you list. 4c leovold is easy 70 30 for big eldrazi

[porcupinetreeman]

https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/1014103#paper

This Eldrazi Stompy / Big Eldrazi Hybrid List by painhuman looks interesting.

[caprino]

Yesterday I play this list in small tournament.

5 round Swiss
4 w 1 lose

W 2 1 vs dredge w 2 1 vs Belcher w 2 1 vs death and taxes w 2 1 vs loam

Lose 1 2 vs sneak and show

Top 8 w 2 0 vs ant...w 2 1 vs uw Helm...final lose 0 2 vs omnitell

Main deck

4 cloudpost
4 glimmerpost
4 ancient tomb
3 vesuva
3 city of traitors
2 eye of ugin
2 crystal vein
2 eldrazi temple
2 thespian stage

4 Grim monolith
4 chalice
3 trinisphere
3 dynamo
2 basalt monolith
3 Voltaic key
4 ugin
1 all is dust

4 Seer
2 ulamog
1 kozilek butcher
1 kozilek new
1 ballista
1 emrakul 2.0

Side
4 leyline
4 ensnaring bridge
2 all is dust
2 Thorn of amethyst
2 warping wail
1 trinisphere

[Cryoclasm]

http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=18948&d=318987&f=LE

My result in Swiss 4-1-1

Quick summary:
R1 - 2-1 (vs ANT)
G1 - he duresses my chalice, and storms before I cast TKS.
G2 and G3 I get sick hands wih 3-4 hate pieces, so 1 discard does nothing to me.

R2 - 2-0 (vs BR - Reanimator from 5-8th place) -
G1- I win the die, Chalice on1 , Trinisphere, he casts nothing.
G2 -I start with Leyline, he concedes. I suggest him to continue playing, since he can hardcast Griselbrand, he thinks and says ok, drops 2 petals. I - TKS, he shows Chancellor and 2 Dark rituals, Uh-oh. Next turn - Endbringer, game.

R3 - 2-1 (vs Team America from 3-4th place)
G1 - very long game, he cast 2 hymns on 2 and 3 turn, FoWs my TKS turn 2, leaving me with 7-8 costs, double wasteland in 2 eldazi temple, but I still draw lands, then he chain cantrips, finds delver, which can not flip for 3 turns, then tombstalker comes in. I cast 2 all is dust but he has 2nd and 3rd FOW hardcast.
G2 - he keeps very strange hand with 3 delvers, Tarmo, Push, DRS, Bayou.
I Wail DRS, cast TKS, he didn't drew a land.
G3 - cannot remember well, there were no hymns and wastelands though, so I think I just cast my threats and he doesn't have enough answers.

R4 - 0-2 (vs BR-reanimator from 3-4 place)
He won die roll, strips me of chalice, leaving with Wail, after looting he discards Thoughtseize and swamp. He is left with 2 cards in hand, Swamp and Petal on board.
I have city, Wail, and single mana lands. No grim monolith, 6-c. I decide to not drop City since it is unlikely that he has the combo right there, and I need to develop the board somehow, so I drop Temple. It turns out he had reanimate and land. His topdeck? - Entomb.
G2 - I tilt and didn't mull to Leyline.

R5 - 2-0 (vs Eldazi Stompy)
G1 - Sower turn 3 and 4, then I activate and cast creatures from Eye of Ugin 4 turns in a row, in order not to die to 2 mimics with jitte and potetial Smasher from topdeck. Finally I stabilize on board and draw Ulamog.
G2 - He starts with Endless one for 3 T1, and Endless one for 4 T2. I drop ratchet bomb T2. =) turns out the only creature he has left - Reshaper. I have enough time and removal to cast my 6th drops and ensure there is nothing threatening me.

R6 - ID with Grixis Delver (winner)

Top8 - I quickly lose to BR reanimator from the 4th round. I can't win against Godlike hands, even when I have bridge and leyline, since he drew 2 out of 4 Wear\Tears.

Overall I am very satisfied with the list and I highly recommend to try it.

NB: Do not tilt.

[caprino]

http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=18948&d=318987&f=LE

My result in Swiss 4-1-1

Quick summary:
R1 - 2-1 (vs ANT)
G1 - he duresses my chalice, and storms before I cast TKS.
G2 and G3 I get sick hands wih 3-4 hate pieces, so 1 discard does nothing to me.

R2 - 2-0 (vs BR - Reanimator from 5-8th place) -
G1- I win the die, Chalice on1 , Trinisphere, he casts nothing.
G2 -I start with Letline, he concedes. I suggest him to continue playing, since he can hardcast grisel brand, he thinks and says ok, drops 2 petals. I - TKS, he shows Chancellor and 2 Dark rituals, Uh-oh. Next turn - Endbringer, game.

R3 - 2-1 (vs Team America from 3-4th place)
G1 - very long game, he cast 2 hymns on 2 and 3 turn, FoWs my TKS turn2, leaving me with 7-8 costs, double wasteland in 2 eldazi temple, but I still draw lands, then he chain cantrips finds delver, which can not flip for 3 turns, then tombstalker comes in. I cast 2 all is dust but he has 2nd and 3rd FOW hardcast.
G2 - he keeps very strange hand with 3 delvers, Tarmo, Push, DRS, Bayou.
I Wail DRS, cast TKS, he didn't drew a land.
G3 - cannot remember well, there were no hymns and wastelands though, so I think I just cast my threats and he doesn't have enough answers.

R4 - 0-2 (vs BR-reanimator from 3-4 place)
He won die roll, strips me of chalice, leaving with Wail, after looting he discards Thoughtseize and swamp. He is left with 2 cards in hand, Swamp and Petal on board.
I have city, Wail, and single mana lands. No grim monolith, 6-c. I decide to not drop City since it is unlikely that he has the combo right there, and I need to develop the board somehow, so I drop Temple. It turns out he had reanimate and land. His topdeck? - Entomb.
G2 - I tilt and didn't mull to Leyline.

R5 - 2-0 (vs Eldazi Stompy)
G1 - Sower turn 3 and 4, then I activate and cast creatures from Eye of Ugin 4 turns in a row, in order not to die to 2 mimics with jitte and potetial Smasher from topdeck. Finally I stabilize on board and draw Ulamog.
G2 - He starts with Endless one for 3 T1, and Endless one for 4 T2. I drop ratchet bomb T2. =) turns out the only creature he has left - Reshaper. I have enough time and removal to cast my 6th drops and ensure there is nothing threatening me.

R6 - ID with Grixis Delver (winner)

Top8 - I quickly lose to BR reanimator from the 4th round. I can't win against Godlike hands, even when I have bridge and leyline, since he drew 2 out of 4 Wear\Tears.

Overall I am very satisfied with the list and I highly recommend to try it.

NB: Do not tilt.
Congratz....why no play Voltaic key main deck?

[Tucane]

Congratz....why no play Voltaic key main deck?

From how i see it, his build is more towards midrange, 2 Ugin, 3 Big Eldrazi and 7 Rocks.

Imo you need a minimum of 8 Rocks/targets to play Key, otherwise it ends up being a dead card too often.

[Eldariel]

From how i see it, his build is more towards midrange, 2 Ugin, 3 Big Eldrazi and 7 Rocks.

Imo you need a minimum of 8 Rocks/targets to play Key, otherwise it ends up being a dead card too often.

Frankly, I don't like Voltaic Key with under 12 sources. You have to keep in mind that manarocks get countered and destroyed, and this deck is too tight on mana to afford non-mana producing cards. 12 sources gives you at least one in 90+% of the openers, which is sufficient for me to enjoy Voltaic reliably.

[caprino]

Frankly, I don't like Voltaic Key with under 12 sources. You have to keep in mind that manarocks get countered and destroyed, and this deck is too tight on mana to afford non-mana producing cards. 12 sources gives you at least one in 90+% of the openers, which is sufficient for me to enjoy Voltaic reliably.
Voltaic key is very important vs lands...i win more game ancient tomb Grim monolith Voltaic key dynamo /basalt and 2 3 turn ugin /ulamog.

[Tucane]

Frankly, I don't like Voltaic Key with under 12 sources. You have to keep in mind that manarocks get countered and destroyed, and this deck is too tight on mana to afford non-mana producing cards. 12 sources gives you at least one in 90+% of the openers, which is sufficient for me to enjoy Voltaic reliably.

Pretty much agree. With 8 rocks I found 2-3x key to be fine. For the full set of keys I'd need to play 4 Basalt aswell... Unfortunately the latter isn't that good and I'd rather play Spyglass or other more flexible cards.

[MGB]

I hope everyone who wanted to build this deck acquired all the Grim Monoliths and City of Traitors they needed...

Seems like every Reserved List card is spiraling out of control wrt: price...

[porkypads]

Thoughts on Thran Temporal Gateway (https://i.redd.it/vtpjgo5siar01.png) for this deck? Puts in ugin, ulamog/kozilek/emrakul (no cast trigger though..)

[FourDogsinaHorseSuit]

Thoughts on Thran Temporal Gateway (https://i.redd.it/vtpjgo5siar01.png) for this deck? Puts in ugin, ulamog/kozilek/emrakul (no cast trigger though..)

Quicksilver Amulet 2.0?
It does ugin but none of the sixers.

[caprino]

I hope everyone who wanted to build this deck acquired all the Grim Monoliths and City of Traitors they needed...

Seems like every Reserved List card is spiraling out of control wrt: price...
HI pathy... Which you list play in this moment?

[Tucane]

Thoughts on Thran Temporal Gateway (https://i.redd.it/vtpjgo5siar01.png) for this deck? Puts in ugin, ulamog/kozilek/emrakul (no cast trigger though..)

Compared to Thran Dynamo; it reduces the cost of Ugin by 1 more mana and makes it uncounterable.

For other stuff (Ulamog, Kozilek) it feels worse due to not triggering "cast". Eot Big Emmy could be nice though...

Honestly it would be better in MUD with Sundering Titan and stuff, but they won't play it either.

[caprino]

In anticipation of a possible shaman bann... I think big eldrazi will become even stronger

[caprino]

Last night another 5 0 in the league.
Coming soon I will put the link on the list

[caprino]

Last night another 5 0 in the league.
Coming soon I will put the link on the list


https://www.mtggoldfish.com/tournament/26643

[Tucane]

https://www.mtggoldfish.com/tournament/26643

Congrats!

Seems like you have found a list that is working for you, any changes for next time?

[caprino]

Congrats!

Seems like you have found a list that is working for you, any changes for next time?

Thanks
No changes.

In this moment I play this list in league

4 cloudpost
4 glimmerpost
4 ancient tomb
3 vesuva
3 city of traitors
2 eye of ugin
2 eldrazi temple
1 Urborg
1 karakas

4 warping wail
4 Spatial contortion
4 Grim monolith
4 chalice
2 trinisphere
2 dynamo
2 basalt
2 thespian
1 ugin
1 all is dust

4 Seer.
3 ulamog
1 kozilek butcher
1 kozilek 2.0
1 ballista

Side
4 leyline
4 ensnaring bridge
4 spyglass
3 Helm

2 game today in league w vs threshold and grixis

[caprino]

Today double 4 1 in league

4 cloudpost
4 glimmerpost
4 ancient tomb
3 city of traitors
2 eldrazi temple
2 thespian stage
2 eye of ugin ugin
2 vesuva
1 karakas
1 Urborg

4 Grim monolith
4 chalice
3 key
2 dynamo
2 basalt
2 trinisphere

4 ugin
1 all is dust

4 Seer
2 ulamog
2 endbringer
2 oblivion sower
1 kozilek butcher
1 kozilek 2.0
1 ballista

Side
4 leyline
4 ensnaring bridge
4 warping wail
3 Spatial contortion

[Cocheloco]

Congrats Caprino! When do you bring in the Ensnaring Bridges? The stop your won creatures for attacking the opponent right?

Cheers

[MGB]

Been testing 2x copies of Karn, Scion in maindeck and 2x copies in sideboard.

So far it has been more or less "win-more" and only impacts the game against slower grindy decks. I'm hoping to see more but it might just be a sideboard card at best.

[caprino]

Been testing 2x copies of Karn, Scion in maindeck and 2x copies in sideboard.

So far it has been more or less "win-more" and only impacts the game against slower grindy decks. I'm hoping to see more but it might just be a sideboard card at best.

Write you list thanks.

[caprino]

Congrats Caprino! When do you bring in the Ensnaring Bridges? The stop your won creatures for attacking the opponent right?

Cheers
I side in ensnaring vs reanimator lands sneak and show eldrazi ecc

I side out sower kozilek

[Cocheloco]

I side in ensnaring vs reanimator lands sneak and show eldrazi ecc

I side out sower kozilek

Thanks! so then the win conditions is oly Ugin?

[caprino]

Thanks! so then the win conditions is oly Ugin?

2 ulamog (karakas +ulamog) 4 ugin 2 endbringer ballista

[caprino]

Today 5 0

List main deck

4 cloudpost
4 glimmerpost
4 ancient tomb
4 city
3 vesuva
2 eye of ugin
2 eldrazi temple
2 thespian

4 Grim monolith
4 chalice
4 Voltaic key
3 trinisphere
2 dynamo
2 basalt
1 Hedron Archive
4 ugin

4 Seer
2 ulamog
2 wurmcoil
1 kozilek butcher
1 kozilek new
1 ballista

Side
4 leyline
4 ensnaring bridge
4 warping wail
3 Helm

W vs tes, sneak and show, 4c (wasteland main deck), lands, rw taxes

[caprino]

Been testing 2x copies of Karn, Scion in maindeck and 2x copies in sideboard.

So far it has been more or less "win-more" and only impacts the game against slower grindy decks. I'm hoping to see more but it might just be a sideboard card at best.
I think karn is good vs miracle, death and taxes, deathblade ecc...yes good vs grindy deck.
Vs delver deck and 4c is not good

[caprino]

Yesterday another one 5 0 in league.

[Eldariel]

@Caprino: Could you list your match-ups?

[caprino]

@Caprino: Could you list your match-ups?

W vs stoneblade, dredge, tes, grixis, grixis

Next time I post link my list

[caprino]

Yesterday another one 5 0 in league.

https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/1065356#paper

[Awesomesuace]

https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/1065356#paper

Nice deck. I am planning on playing bigeldrazi in Birmingham. Would u recommend a specific version? Thxz.

[caprino]

Nice deck. I am planning on playing bigeldrazi in Birmingham. Would u recommend a specific version? Thxz.

Thanks. Yes i recommend version mana ramp artifact and Voltaic key and ugin

[porkypads]

https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/1065356#paper

Do you like wurmcoil + oblivion sower over endbringer + sower split? Or depends on matchups?

[caprino]

Do you like wurmcoil + oblivion sower over endbringer + sower split? Or depends on matchups?

I think oblivion sower main deck and endbringer and wurmcoil in the side

[ChrisDissent]

Has anyone tried the new Karn yet ? Sounds like a nice drawing machine + alternative wincon in an heavy artifact build with Key, mana rocks, Chalice and Spyglass.

[MGB]

Has anyone tried the new Karn yet ? Sounds like a nice drawing machine + alternative wincon in an heavy artifact build with Key, mana rocks, Chalice and Spyglass.

I've tried it in a few leagues and a challenge on MODO. I lost every game in which I cast him. Not all of that is Karn's fault, but it's been pretty underwhelming. The Construct generation ability is mostly irrelevant for our gameplan of ramping into big bombs, and the "card draw" ability is just too damn slow because you get the worst card on the first activation and you have to wait a turn just to get the "good" card.

I've come to the conclusion that it's a SB card at best, if that. I'm going to keep it in the SB where I had the Coercive Portals to board in vs. Miracles and Jund-type decks.

[ChrisDissent]

I've tried it in a few leagues and a challenge on MODO. I lost every game in which I cast him. Not all of that is Karn's fault, but it's been pretty underwhelming. The Construct generation ability is mostly irrelevant for our gameplan of ramping into big bombs, and the "card draw" ability is just too damn slow because you get the worst card on the first activation and you have to wait a turn just to get the "good" card.

I've come to the conclusion that it's a SB card at best, if that. I'm going to keep it in the SB where I had the Coercive Portals to board in vs. Miracles and Jund-type decks.

Thanks for your insight MGB. It's just what I was afraid of.
This weekend, I played in a 40-men tournament and lost the "win and in" against a Big Eldrazi deck powered by this Karn (and I lost the dice roll, which is crucial here). My opponent, a really nice guy, almost convinced me about this card as a must have.

After posting here, I tested a bit yesterday and yes, not that convincing. I found it pretty slow for what we are trying to do. Maybe, it's way better in a MUD shell.

[MGB]

Back to testing Karn as a 2-of MD in place of the 4th Trinisphere and the 2nd Basalt Monolith.

[MGB]

Well I just Top-4ed the latest Legacy Challenge with the following list:

https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/1095589#online

That link is from last week's Challenge in which I went 3-3 but the decklist I used to Top-4 this Challenge is identical to that list.

I lost only to ANT Storm combo in the Swiss (he had Turn 1 kill in 2 games of out of 3 essentially) and I lost to Clashed's weird Grixis Dack Fayden brew in the Top-4 (I made mistakes losing too much life in G1 when I could have fetched Emrakul and won, and I stupidly used the -2 ability of Karn in G2 and he played Dack to steal my constructs.)

The deck was pretty explosive and potent this time around and I'm reminded by how awesome Voltaic Key can be because it won me a lot of games with the explosiveness of Monolith + Key into stuff.

[FourDogsinaHorseSuit]

I got super sick and can't play anymore so you guys better keep posting and playing need to hear how you all are doing!

[nakapuff]

Well I just Top-4ed the latest Legacy Challenge with the following list:

https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/1095589#online

That link is from last week's Challenge in which I went 3-3 but the decklist I used to Top-4 this Challenge is identical to that list.

I lost only to ANT Storm combo in the Swiss (he had Turn 1 kill in 2 games of out of 3 essentially) and I lost to Clashed's weird Grixis Dack Fayden brew in the Top-4 (I made mistakes losing too much life in G1 when I could have fetched Emrakul and won, and I stupidly used the -2 ability of Karn in G2 and he played Dack to steal my constructs.)

The deck was pretty explosive and potent this time around and I'm reminded by how awesome Voltaic Key can be because it won me a lot of games with the explosiveness of Monolith + Key into stuff.

So what is your verdict after this test? To Karn or not to Karn? He still a win more card or he is actually a good card in this deck?

[MGB]

So what is your verdict after this test? To Karn or not to Karn? He still a win more card or he is actually a good card in this deck?

It's not as good as I had hoped or wanted it to be, because in some matchups it just doesn't impact the board enough, but overall it's probably better than the 2nd Basalt Monolith and the 4th Trinisphere, which is what I swapped out to make room for 2 Karn MD. I probably wouldn't play more than 2 Karn MD, though. It's not strong enough to warrant more than 2 copies in the MD. I like him quite a bit more against grindy slower decks like Miracles or B/G Control.

[Cocheloco]

I got super sick and can't play anymore so you guys better keep posting and playing need to hear how you all are doing!

Hope you get well soon!

[Cocheloco]

It's not as good as I had hoped or wanted it to be, because in some matchups it just doesn't impact the board enough, but overall it's probably better than the 2nd Basalt Monolith and the 4th Trinisphere, which is what I swapped out to make room for 2 Karn MD. I probably wouldn't play more than 2 Karn MD, though. It's not strong enough to warrant more than 2 copies in the MD. I like him quite a bit more against grindy slower decks like Miracles or B/G Control.

Congrats! Would you still keep 2 Karns in the SB?

[Cryoclasm]

@MGB Is 3rd and 4th Karn worth 2 slots in SB? I thought that we are already well positioned against 3-4c Leovold control and Miracles.

[MGB]

@MGB Is 3rd and 4th Karn worth 2 slots in SB? I thought that we are already well positioned against 3-4c Leovold control and Miracles.

That's definitely a judgement call we have to make. I could see instead playing more Storm hate like Thorn of Amethyst copies (for some reason I still lose to this deck more than I should) or other targeted hate.

I just like having something in the SB to swap in for the Thought Knot Seers against decks with Swords to Plowshares and/or Edict effects. It's an easy substitution to make against those decks - make their removal dead and exchange it for more card advantage.

[Cocheloco]

Chriss84 did it again!

https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/1118822#paper

[FourDogsinaHorseSuit]

That's definitely a judgement call we have to make. I could see instead playing more Storm hate like Thorn of Amethyst copies (for some reason I still lose to this deck more than I should) or other targeted hate.

I just like having something in the SB to swap in for the Thought Knot Seers against decks with Swords to Plowshares and/or Edict effects. It's an easy substitution to make against those decks - make their removal dead and exchange it for more card advantage.
Here's some TKS substiutions. Most are gimmicks
Crucible of Worlds
Crystal Ball
Disrupting Scepter
Ensnaring Bridge
Inspiring Statuary
Matter Reshaper
Oblivion Stone
Staff of Domination
Titan's Pressense

[MGB]

Here's some TKS substiutions. Most are gimmicks
Crucible of Worlds
Crystal Ball
Disrupting Scepter
Ensnaring Bridge
Inspiring Statuary
Matter Reshaper
Oblivion Stone
Staff of Domination
Titan's Pressense


Crucible of Worlds is a possibility but it would only be semi-live against Wasteland decks because we have no Wasteland of our own to recur.
Crystal Ball is garbage.
Disrupting Scepter is bad in modern day Magic.
I already have 4 Ensnaring Bridge in the SB.
Inspriing Statuary is worse than just tapping Monliths for mana.
Matter Reshaper is just another removal magnet this deck doesn't need.
Oblivion Stone blows up too many of our permanents.
Staff of Domination is definitely decent in our deck but much better with Metalworker.
Titan's Presence seems strictly worse than Spatial Contortion or Dismember, which we already don't need.

[FourDogsinaHorseSuit]

Crucible of Worlds is a possibility but it would only be semi-live against Wasteland decks because we have no Wasteland of our own to recur.
Crystal Ball is garbage.
Disrupting Scepter is bad in modern day Magic.
I already have 4 Ensnaring Bridge in the SB.
Inspriing Statuary is worse than just tapping Monliths for mana.
Matter Reshaper is just another removal magnet this deck doesn't need.
Oblivion Stone blows up too many of our permanents.
Staff of Domination is definitely decent in our deck but much better with Metalworker.
Titan's Presence seems strictly worse than Spatial Contortion or Dismember, which we already don't need.
I think you're a little too dismissive of matter reshaped but I agree with most of what you said. TKS is just really good there even in the face of removal!

[Von]

Well usually TKS only eats removal against fair decks. So if you're one of your only road blocks out against a fair deck you ideally want to replaced it with something else that can stall or block to not be dead. Maybe Staff of Domination or trading post or something like that.

[FourDogsinaHorseSuit]

I finally was feeling well enough to play at the local four-round tournament:
2-2 final, winning 100% of game twos, and losing every die roll.

Thoughts:
Deck remains weak to wasteland, losing nearly every game it was played.
Mana Rocks coast around Blood Moon.
Deck desperately needs more cards in the late game to make sure it has threats and not more lock/land pieces.

[Von]

I finally was feeling well enough to play at the local four-round tournament:
2-2 final, winning 100% of game twos, and losing every die roll.

Thoughts:
Deck remains weak to wasteland, losing nearly every game it was played.
Mana Rocks coast around Blood Moon.
Deck desperately needs more cards in the late game to make sure it has threats and not more lock/land pieces.

I think that's the case with all decks that doesn't play cantrips...you're at the mercy of the top deck. That said I found playing multiple conduits of Ruin help, since they tutor up a second threat for you.

[Eldariel]

I think that's the case with all decks that doesn't play cantrips...you're at the mercy of the top deck. That said I found playing multiple conduits of Ruin help, since they tutor up a second threat for you.

This more so than many others since you need such a large amount of mana in the deck that your percentage of action topdecks is significantly lower than in something like Death & Taxes or Elves. On the flipside, you only need to hit one thing to end the game. Dual effect cards like Eye of Ugin, Hedron Archive, the mentioned Conduit, Oblivion Sower and company do help alleviate this somewhat too.

[.Ix]

Third place list (out of 76 players) from KMC 95TH

http://mtgkmc.blog.fc2.com/blog-entry-565.html

I don't understand what the Mirage Mirror is for.


3rd Place
Player Name:Nakamura Ryosuke
Deck Name:13ポスト
Deck Designer:

Main
4　《作り変えるもの/Matter Reshaper》
4　《難題の予見者/Thought-Knot Seer》
4　《現実を砕くもの/Reality Smasher》
1　《終末を招くもの/Endbringer》
1　《歩行バリスタ/Walking Ballista》
2　《絶え間ない飢餓、ウラモグ/Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger》
1　《引き裂かれし永劫、エムラクール/Emrakul, the Aeons Torn》
4　《虚空の杯/Chalice of the Void》
3　《厳かなモノリス/Grim Monolith》
3　《魔術遠眼鏡/Sorcerous Spyglass》
3　《蜃気楼の鏡/Mirage Mirror》
2　《全ては塵/All Is Dust》
1　《解放された者、カーン/Karn Liberated》
1　《精霊龍、ウギン/Ugin, the Spirit Dragon》
4　《雲上の座/Cloudpost》
4　《微光地/Glimmerpost》
4　《古えの墳墓/Ancient Tomb》
4　《エルドラージの寺院/Eldrazi Temple》
3　《裏切り者の都/City of Traitors》
2　《ウギンの目/Eye of Ugin》
2　《ヴェズーヴァ/Vesuva》
2　《ヨーグモスの墳墓、アーボーグ/Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth》
1　《魂の洞窟/Cavern of Souls》

Side
4　《虚空の力線/Leyline of the Void》
3　《Helm of Obedience》
3　《三なる宝球/Trinisphere》
3　《歪める嘆き/Warping Wail》
1　《魔術遠眼鏡/Sorcerous Spyglass》
1　《Karakas》

[Von]

Third place list (out of 76 players) from KMC 95TH

http://mtgkmc.blog.fc2.com/blog-entry-565.html

I don't understand what the Mirage Mirror is for.


3rd Place
Player Name:Nakamura Ryosuke
Deck Name:13ポスト
Deck Designer:

Main
4　《作り変えるもの/Matter Reshaper》
4　《難題の予見者/Thought-Knot Seer》
4　《現実を砕くもの/Reality Smasher》
1　《終末を招くもの/Endbringer》
1　《歩行バリスタ/Walking Ballista》
2　《絶え間ない飢餓、ウラモグ/Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger》
1　《引き裂かれし永劫、エムラクール/Emrakul, the Aeons Torn》
4　《虚空の杯/Chalice of the Void》
3　《厳かなモノリス/Grim Monolith》
3　《魔術遠眼鏡/Sorcerous Spyglass》
3　《蜃気楼の鏡/Mirage Mirror》
2　《全ては塵/All Is Dust》
1　《解放された者、カーン/Karn Liberated》
1　《精霊龍、ウギン/Ugin, the Spirit Dragon》
4　《雲上の座/Cloudpost》
4　《微光地/Glimmerpost》
4　《古えの墳墓/Ancient Tomb》
4　《エルドラージの寺院/Eldrazi Temple》
3　《裏切り者の都/City of Traitors》
2　《ウギンの目/Eye of Ugin》
2　《ヴェズーヴァ/Vesuva》
2　《ヨーグモスの墳墓、アーボーグ/Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth》
1　《魂の洞窟/Cavern of Souls》

Side
4　《虚空の力線/Leyline of the Void》
3　《Helm of Obedience》
3　《三なる宝球/Trinisphere》
3　《歪める嘆き/Warping Wail》
1　《魔術遠眼鏡/Sorcerous Spyglass》
1　《Karakas》

No idea...maybe to net +1 mana copying a grim or posts? I supposed it's pretty verstile and can also act like a road block when facing creatures.

[DJ_AGUILA]

Other Top4 4 with Big Eldrazi, and in the sideboard two Azor's Gateway ¿Versus what decks is good the Azor's Gateway?, ¿control decks? :rolleyes::rolleyes:

Stefano Stissi playing Post Ramp Position: 4
Deck Name: Eldrazi Cloudpost Sideboard
Creatures [12]
1 Emrakul, the Promised End
1 Kozilek, the Great Distortion
3 Endbringer
3 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
4 Thought-Knot Seer
Sorceries [2]
2 All Is Dust
Planeswalkers [4]
2 Karn, Scion of Urza
2 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
Artifacts [19]
2 Sorcerous Spyglass
2 Thran Dynamo
2 Voltaic Key
3 Basalt Monolith
3 Grim Monolith
3 Trinisphere
4 Chalice of the Void
Lands [24]
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2 City of Traitors
2 Eye of Ugin
3 Vesuva
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Cloudpost
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Glimmerpost
SIDEBOARD:
2 Azor's Gateway
1 Karakas
4 Leyline of the Void
2 Ratchet Bomb
1 Spatial Contortion
3 Warping Wail
2 Wurmcoil Engine

Do you like the deck?

[FourDogsinaHorseSuit]

Re: mirror, it's good against lands, or reanimator, and based on his creature base he can tap it for manas and/or attack with it. I think it's not good enough but I can see it.
Re: gateway, I hyped this card when it came out but then got sick and couldn't really test. It does the things this deck needs help with ie filters topdecks. It might just be a worse coercive portal but that flip seems awfully tempting (I actually think it is meh, because if it flips you probably have the Mana)

[.Ix]

Yeah, it looks weird but this isn't the only time he's made top 8 with 3 Mirrors. It must be good for something. I think the deck name he entered is "13post" so I'm guessing post is what it copies most of the time.

[FourDogsinaHorseSuit]

It's spoiler season!
Meteor Golem looks like an interesting sideboard, but I don't think it has a place.
Be on the lookout for a new Ugin. The story of core19 is how bolas came to hate ugin. Bolas has been spoiled as a flippy walker, and I expect the same of ugin.

Edit: Ugin, despite narrating the story will not appear in this set.

[MGB]

Man, this deck has been on a TEAR for me on MODO recently.

The past 5 leagues for me have been something like 4-1, 5-0, 4-1, 4-1, 3-2.

The deck just feels like it doesn't lose unless you make a ton of mistakes or opponent has a good deck vs. you and draws well.

Once you figure out how to properly play and sideboard the new Karn in this deck, it adds a whole different dimension and lets you play the mid-range game effectively while still being rock-solid against combo and control.

The combination of Karn and TKS at the 4-mana slot give this deck a punishing mid-game presence while still maintaining the nigh-unbeatable top-end and fast disruption in the early game.

[TLK]

Man, this deck has been on a TEAR for me on MODO recently.

The past 5 leagues for me have been something like 4-1, 5-0, 4-1, 4-1, 3-2.

The deck just feels like it doesn't lose unless you make a ton of mistakes or opponent has a good deck vs. you and draws well.

Once you figure out how to properly play and sideboard the new Karn in this deck, it adds a whole different dimension and lets you play the mid-range game effectively while still being rock-solid against combo and control.

The combination of Karn and TKS at the 4-mana slot give this deck a punishing mid-game presence while still maintaining the nigh-unbeatable top-end and fast disruption in the early game.

What's your current list? Looking to make a return to Legacy and specifically this deck. Congrats on the success!

[MGB]

What's your current list? Looking to make a return to Legacy and specifically this deck. Congrats on the success!

https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/1107779#paper

This is my deck from the Challenge a few weeks ago that I've been playing in leagues since then with consistent success, with ONE change - I swapped out the 2 Eldrazi Temples for 2 Crystal Veins and they've been amazing for me.

Crystal Vein is really good in the version with less Eldrazi and more Karns / Ugins / Mana rocks. Both lands tap for 1 mana unless they are being used situationally differently. Because the only advantage Temple has over Vein is that it can be used to tap for 2 mana repeatedly, but only for Eldrazi. But if you're popping Crystal Vein for 2 mana to cast a big Eldrazi, then you're probably already winning and you don't care about your land disappearing. And in some situations Crystal Vein can be crucial in deciding the early part of the game because you can pop it to play a Chalice @ 1 on turn 1 like Tomb/City 9-10. Whereas Eldrazi Temple can never do that and can only tap for 1 mana unless it's casting Eldrazis. The only time Temple is definitely better than Vein is when you really need to cast TKS or All is Dust early and don't want to lose your land, but those situations are outnumbered by the number of situations where you can cast Chalice @ 1 early, or cast an Ugin with just enough mana by popping the Vein, or cast a Grim Monlith + Voltaic Key on turn 1 into Karn/TKS/Trinisphere or something equally broken.

[Andy_Prime]

How do you find it playing without needles or spyglasses in your 75?

Also 4 City of traitors seems like it could be so rough, how is that working out for you?

[MGB]

How do you find it playing without needles or spyglasses in your 75?

Also 4 City of traitors seems like it could be so rough, how is that working out for you?

The thing about needle/spyglass is ... against some decks it's great (Sneak'n'Show) but against other decks it's almost a blank. I'd rather play cards that pretty good against nearly everything instead. And really, Ensnaring Bridge and Warping Wail are usually enough against Sneak'n'Show decks.

4 City of Traitors is mandatory, imho, because you just want as much mana as fast as possible. Yes, the drawback can suck at times, but you want as many opportunities to power out Grim Monolith or Chalice of the Void as soon as possible.

[Von]

I think it's never wrong to t least board needle affects
I realize it could be a meta call but i think there enough utility to warrant a slot. Eg for wasteland things.

I think the difference between 3 and 4 city is probably neglogable. You'll power out stuff more often with 4 but will probably have to mull more as well.

[FourDogsinaHorseSuit]

What's everyone's opinion on keeping/mulling hands that include chalice and key?
What about multiple keys?
What about turn one chalices that would then blank your held keys?

[JeezXrist]

I think it's never wrong to t least board needle affects
I realize it could be a meta call but i think there enough utility to warrant a slot. Eg for wasteland things.

I think the difference between 3 and 4 city is probably neglogable. You'll power out stuff more often with 4 but will probably have to mull more as well.

For me, Spyglasses, Needles and Revokers are always a meta call. I always adjust the build depending on what decks I have scouted. I even tried going for a build with 4 of each when the meta was like a lot of Wasteland decks and Storm.

[JeezXrist]

What's everyone's opinion on keeping/mulling hands that include chalice and key?
What about multiple keys?
What about turn one chalices that would then blank your held keys?

For me, it depends on who's playing first. If I'm on the play and let's say I have a Chalice and 2 key's, 3 lands and something else, then I'll keep. That 1st turn Chalice for 1 is a counter magnet and most likely be countered. The good thing is it'll pave the way for resolving your other spells next turn.

[FourDogsinaHorseSuit]

4 wastelands in half the top 28? 17/28 running some number of wasteland? Ut oh. Ok, I'll just play more key-centric Scrying glass buil....
Oh they're also playing 4 daze, FoW, AND stifle??? Ok this might be harder....
UH, what was MUD's matchup against tempo pre DRS because these Legacy Challange results don't look good!

[Hanni]

I don't really think Stifle matters. Although if the meta starts to become saturated with Wasteland, maindeck Spyglass looks like a good idea.

[FourDogsinaHorseSuit]

I don't really think Stifle matters. Although if the meta starts to become saturated with Wasteland, maindeck Spyglass looks like a good idea.
I played stifle for a long time before I adopted this deck, let me tell you that a well placed stifle can effect nearly every deck hard. What makes nearly all of our threats so unfair is the abilities tacked onto them. a TKS without the Exile effect is a 4/4 that gives cards when it dies. A stifled Ugin on the -X when you were going to turn the game around? If the stifle Newlamog they retain the mana to answer it. Luckily stifle is adversely affected by trinisphere and chalice, which just highlights the value of being more controlish going forward.

[TLK]

This deck took down the SCG Legacy Classic this past weekend. I built it on MTGO and ran it through a Comp League, going 4-1. I was one turn away from a 5-0.

Round 1 vs Grixis - 2-1 WIN
Round 2 vs Sneak and Show - 1-2 LOSS (Here I won G1, but lost G2 to Release the Ants. I essentially needed an Ulamog within my top 18 cards so that he'd lose the clash but that never happened. Game 3 I had him down to 5 with a Reality Smasher on board and Spyglass naming Sneak Attack and he topdecked a Show & Tell).
Round 3 vs UW Stoneblade - 2-0 WIN
Round 4 vs RB Reanimator - 2-1 WIN (It's nice when your opponent concedes to a Turn 0 Leyline of the Void.)
Round 5 vs Storm - 2-1 WIN (Game 3 he mulls to 4 or 5 and my Chalice on 0 seals it.)

[FourDogsinaHorseSuit]

This deck took down the SCG Legacy Classic this past weekend. I built it on MTGO and ran it through a Comp League, going 4-1. I was one turn away from a 5-0.

Round 1 vs Grixis - 2-1 WIN
Round 2 vs Sneak and Show - 1-2 LOSS (Here I won G1, but lost G2 to Release the Ants. I essentially needed an Ulamog within my top 18 cards so that he'd lose the clash but that never happened. Game 3 I had him down to 5 with a Reality Smasher on board and Spyglass naming Sneak Attack and he topdecked a Show & Tell).
Round 3 vs UW Stoneblade - 2-0 WIN
Round 4 vs RB Reanimator - 2-1 WIN (It's nice when your opponent concedes to a Turn 0 Leyline of the Void.)
Round 5 vs Storm - 2-1 WIN (Game 3 he mulls to 4 or 5 and my Chalice on 0 seals it.)
Good job!
Post your list!
Have you seen an increase of wasteland?

[TLK]

Good job!
Post your list!
Have you seen an increase of wasteland?

Not at all. I didn't see a single Wasteland in that entire League, which I'm sure is directly correlated to my success. If Wasteland is nowhere to be found then this deck should thrive.

List is the following:

4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
3 Walking Ballista
2 Endbringer
4 Matter Reshaper
3 Simian Spirit Guide
2 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger

1 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon

4 Chalice of the Void
3 Grim Monolith
3 Trinisphere
2 All Is Dust

4 Ancient Tomb
3 City of Traitors
4 Cloudpost
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Glimmerpost
2 Vesuva
3 Eye of Ugin
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth


2 Ratchet Bomb
3 Sorcerous Spyglass
2 Faerie Macabre
3 Leyline of the Void
2 Dismember
3 Mindbreak Trap

[JeezXrist]

Not at all. I didn't see a single Wasteland in that entire League, which I'm sure is directly correlated to my success. If Wasteland is nowhere to be found then this deck should thrive.

List is the following:

4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
3 Walking Ballista
2 Endbringer
4 Matter Reshaper
3 Simian Spirit Guide
2 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger

1 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon

4 Chalice of the Void
3 Grim Monolith
3 Trinisphere
2 All Is Dust

4 Ancient Tomb
3 City of Traitors
4 Cloudpost
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Glimmerpost
2 Vesuva
3 Eye of Ugin
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth


2 Ratchet Bomb
3 Sorcerous Spyglass
2 Faerie Macabre
3 Leyline of the Void
2 Dismember
3 Mindbreak Trap


Hi there, I'd like to ask if what's the Faerie Macabre's other role in this build. Is it an extension of the Leylines? Is 4 Leylines not enough in terms of GY hate? Thanks

[TLK]

Hi there, I'd like to ask if what's the Faerie Macabre's other role in this build. Is it an extension of the Leylines? Is 4 Leylines not enough in terms of GY hate? Thanks

I had the same question after I played the League to be honest. I think the Leyline count can go up to 4 and the 2 Macabre can be cut for something else - probably another tool to fight against Sneak & Show.

[FourDogsinaHorseSuit]

I had the same question after I played the League to be honest. I think the Leyline count can go up to 4 and the 2 Macabre can be cut for something else - probably another tool to fight against Sneak & Show.

If you're expecting a lot of graveyard decks like many people were after the ban having both is a boon. Remember that there ones that can do run Revenant Silence which takes care of any number of leyline and isn't a dead draw. It's a meta call.

[TLK]

If you're expecting a lot of graveyard decks like many people were after the ban having both is a boon. Remember that there ones that can do run Revenant Silence which takes care of any number of leyline and isn't a dead draw. It's a meta call.

Correct - I'd just rather max out on Leyline than run a 3/2 split moving forward I think. Plus, either is only not a dead draw if you have your 1-of Urborg.

[MGB]

Well Yesterday I placed #4 in the Starcitygames Legacy Classic in Philadelphia, PA with this list:

http://www.starcitygames.com/decks/122557

Eldrazi Post was doing well in everyone's hands at that tournament. Aside from my Top-4 showing, Joseph Cockrell placed #8 with a similar version of the deck (http://www.starcitygames.com/decks/122560), and Allison Warfield placed #15 with the more midrange-Eldrazi-focused version of the deck (http://www.starcitygames.com/decks/122567).

The deck felt really strong all day. I slid through the Swiss like a knife through hot butter beating everything with relative ease. I only lost in the Swiss to Michael Derczo (really good player) on Death n Taxes in a close, grindy match due to a barrage of Phyrexian Revokers, Wastelands, and Rishadan Ports in G2 & G3. I lost to U/W Helm Control in the Top-4 despite winning G1 because he landed Back to Basics in G2 and G3 on Turn 3 both games and I didn't have enough artifact mana to escape that lock (in g2 i didn't have any and in g3 he disenchanted my voltaic key, locking my grim monolith out).

On the day I played:

R1: Eldrazi Aggro W 2-0
R2: Mono Black Pox W 2-1
R3: Miracles W 2-0
R4: Miracles? (I forget exactly but some blue deck that I beat easily) W 2-0
R5: U/R Burn W 2-0
R6: Death n Taxes L 1-2
R7: Sneak n Show W 2-1
R8: ID

Quarterfinals: Infect W 2-1
Semifinals: U/W Helm L 1-2

In all honesty, I feel like the deck is being underplayed right now. After its #1 showing at the Legacy Classic in SCG Worcester, its continued top placings online in my hands and the hands of others, and this most recent strong showing at another Classic, I honestly feel as if the deck is probably in the Tier 1 or just outside of the Tier 1 of the Legacy metagame right now. It beats nearly everything pretty consistently and only really struggles against Loam + Wasteland decks (Aggro Loam and Lands) which are not being played heavily now, and it sometimes struggles against Death n taxes but the matchup is somewhat manageable with All is Dust and Karakas complementing the other stuff.

At the very least this thread should be moved to the "Established" section of the forums. :-P

[FourDogsinaHorseSuit]

Well Yesterday I placed #4 in the Starcitygames Legacy Classic in Philadelphia, PA with this list:

http://www.starcitygames.com/decks/122557

Eldrazi Post was doing well in everyone's hands at that tournament. Aside from my Top-4 showing, Joseph Cockrell placed #8 with a similar version of the deck (http://www.starcitygames.com/decks/122560), and Allison Warfield placed #15 with the more midrange-Eldrazi-focused version of the deck (http://www.starcitygames.com/decks/122567).

The deck felt really strong all day. I slid through the Swiss like a knife through hot butter beating everything with relative ease. I only lost in the Swiss to Michael Derczo (really good player) on Death n Taxes in a close, grindy match due to a barrage of Phyrexian Revokers, Wastelands, and Rishadan Ports in G2 & G3. I lost to U/W Helm Control in the Top-4 despite winning G1 because he landed Back to Basics in G2 and G3 on Turn 3 both games and I didn't have enough artifact mana to escape that lock (in g2 i didn't have any and in g3 he disenchanted my voltaic key, locking my grim monolith out).

On the day I played:

R1: Eldrazi Aggro W 2-0
R2: Mono Black Pox W 2-1
R3: Miracles W 2-0
R4: Miracles? (I forget exactly but some blue deck that I beat easily) W 2-0
R5: U/R Burn W 2-0
R6: Death n Taxes L 1-2
R7: Sneak n Show W 2-1
R8: ID

Quarterfinals: Infect W 2-1
Semifinals: U/W Helm L 1-2

In all honesty, I feel like the deck is being underplayed right now. After its #1 showing at the Legacy Classic in SCG Worcester, its continued top placings online in my hands and the hands of others, and this most recent strong showing at another Classic, I honestly feel as if the deck is probably in the Tier 1 or just outside of the Tier 1 of the Legacy metagame right now. It beats nearly everything pretty consistently and only really struggles against Loam + Wasteland decks (Aggro Loam and Lands) which are not being played heavily now, and it sometimes struggles against Death n taxes but the matchup is somewhat manageable with All is Dust and Karakas complementing the other stuff.

At the very least this thread should be moved to the "Established" section of the forums. :-P
I think the deck is underplayed right now because it has a terrible delver matchup. Every time I play against wasteland/daze I'm dead on two mana with all my mana rocks in the bin.

[MGB]

I think the deck is underplayed right now because it has a terrible delver matchup. Every time I play against wasteland/daze I'm dead on two mana with all my mana rocks in the bin.


Well, it hasn't been enough of an issue to dissuade me so far. The deck has single-handedly brought my ELO rating on MODO to right around 1800 consistently and allowed me to go "infinite" with prize tickets and I've cashed nearly every paper event I've played with the deck in the past year or so...

[say no to scurvy]

I've trying to build this deck. What's the consensus on the mana rocks? The one at the classic played 3 grims. The MTGO challenge played 2 grims / 2 basalts. I've seen combinations of keys and dynamos. There has to be an overall optimum combination, right?

[TLK]

No real consensus. Depends on what your aim is. Some people like the explosiveness and Wasteland protection of the mana rock version, whereas others prefer the consistency of the fewer mana rock version as you're not just drawing a bunch of mana without a payoff.

[MGB]

I'd always go with 4 Grim Monoliths. They're one of the best cards in the deck. The rest is up to you. I like Thran Dynamo because it retains its utility even without Voltaic Key... I don't know if Basalt Monolith is necessary but I like at least 1 just to mix it up.

[caprino]

I think 4 monolith 4 dynamo 2 basalt and 3 key is very good

[MGB]

I think 4 monolith 4 dynamo 2 basalt and 3 key is very good

If you run too many mana rocks you run the risk of getting flooded and not drawing enough business spells, tho. That's why I cut my 4 Grim/3 Thran/2 Basalt configuration down to 4 Grim/3 Thran/1 Basalt and added a Karn, Scion of Urza in place of the 2nd Basalt.

[caprino]

If you run too many mana rocks you run the risk of getting flooded and not drawing enough business spells, tho. That's why I cut my 4 Grim/3 Thran/2 Basalt configuration down to 4 Grim/3 Thran/1 Basalt and added a Karn, Scion of Urza in place of the 2nd Basalt.
Write you list thanks

[MGB]

Write you list thanks

Here's the list I just Top-4ed the SCG Classic with:

http://www.starcitygames.com/decks/122557

[caprino]

Here's the list I just Top-4ed the SCG Classic with:

http://www.starcitygames.com/decks/122557

Nice list
In New meta you win vs rug delver?

[MGB]

Nice list
In New meta you win vs rug delver?

Haven't played against it yet. :-)

[porkypads]

Here's the list I just Top-4ed the SCG Classic with:

http://www.starcitygames.com/decks/122557

grats on the finish. I've been a big fan of endbringer in this deck and see you run 0, what do you think of the card? I also think I prefer 3/1 ulamog/kozilek split, many times I find I just need to stabilize and I'll win the game, and ulamog's trigger is better at doing that.

[MGB]

grats on the finish. I've been a big fan of endbringer in this deck and see you run 0, what do you think of the card? I also think I prefer 3/1 ulamog/kozilek split, many times I find I just need to stabilize and I'll win the game, and ulamog's trigger is better at doing that.

I used to run Endbringer as a 2-of in the MD but I often just found it to be a removal magnet without immediate impact on the board and it would eat the removal sitting in their hand before I got to untap with it. TKS is a removal magnet as well but it has an immediate impact in that you still get to nab their best card and see their hand. I'm a proponent of the "as few creatures as possible" design philosophy with regard to this deck - I view it more as a control-combo deck than any kind of aggro or midrange deck. I've always had the most success with the more Planeswalker-focused, artifact-focused builds, as you can see from my MTGO history. That's not to say that the other build isn't valid; but for some reason I've always had more success vs. blue control with fewer midrange creatures in the deck.

Ulamog and Kozilek are both situationally better than the other. If you are behind on the board and you need to remove some troublesome permanents before dying soon (creatures, planeswalkers, etc) Ulamog is better in that situation. If you want to really "seal the deal" on the game and just accrue massive card advantage, Kozilek is certainly better. I always found the 2/2 split to be ideal because in most situations early in the game you'd rather have Kozilek to build card advantage (particularly against the blue control decks), so it doesn't matter if they Swords him or something, whereas even if you land an Ulamog, and, say, exile two lands, they could just Swords him and still win once you are in top-deck mode with an empty hand. Often times Kozilek will draw you into the answer you need (Ulamog or Ugin), but you just need to be able to survive an extra turn or two to use that answer. If anything, I'd probably play a 3 Kozilek/1 Ulamog split unless the metagame is infested with aggro decks.

[marnir]

Hi everyone. I've been playing this deck at my LGS for the last six months or so, and I thought I would share my experience with the deck.
First, my list.

LANDS 25
4 ancient tomb
4 cloudpost
4 glimmerpost
4 eldrazi temple
3 eye of ugin
2 city of traitors
2 urborg, tomb of yagmoth
2 vesuva

Creatures 13
4 thought-knot seer
4 ulamog the ceasless hunger
2 endbringer
1 kozilek butcher of truth
1 kozilek the great distortion
1 wurmcoil engine

Disruption/answers 10
4 chalice of the void
3 trinisphere
3 all is dust

Ramp 12
4 grim monolith
3 thran dynamo
3 voltaic key
2 basalt monolith

Sideboard
4 pithing needle
3 leyline of the void
3 wurmcoil engine
2 warping vail
1 graafdiggers cage
1 emrakul, the aeons torn
1 wastes

First, some thoughts about certain card choices.


Ulamog Vs new Kozilek
I've been running a full playset of ulamogs and I'm convinced that this card is the best of the eldrazis by far. My recommendation is to cut any new kozileks you might be running to make room for another ulamog, if you aren't running the full playset of him already. Often, exiling 2 permanents gives you a chance to catch up from behind, whereas drawing some cards doesn't let you do anything until next turn. Best case with kozilek you get to counter something, but your cards have a higher mana cost than most decks, so there is a risk you wont be able to counter anything. Also, countering doesnt deal with whats on the board. Old kozilek i think warrants one slot in the main, to protect you from painter combo, and other random mill running around.

Oblivion Sower
I'm convinced that the card is bad, and I did the math to prove it. Lets assume you are facing an opponent with 20 lands in her deck, 8 of those being fetches. By turn 4, you have a 33 % chance of having drawn urborg, to make the fetches live (if you play 2 urborgs). That will give you an average of 1,33 lands every time you cast sower. Without urborg, that number drops to 0,78 lands. On average for the deck as a whole you can expect 0,98 lands that you can use, each time you cast sower. So basically, it's a 8/5 that ramps you 1 mana against a pretty average deck. To me, both Endbringer and conduit of ruin seem like stronger choices. More on that now.


Conduit of ruin. Is it good?
I've found that this deck mainly loses for one of two reasons
1. Your opponents take you off mana and you cant deploy your threats.
2. you end up drawing only mana and no treats.

This is an issue many have noted and tried to remedy by playing things like new karn or coercive portal. But being in blue we dont get good card draw, and those options are too slow in my opinion. Conduit of ruin does not draw you cards, but it gives you card selection, as well as ramp. I'm currently planning to try out the following changes to my deck

-1 new kozilek
-1 ulamog
-1 voltaic key
-1 all is dust

4+ conduit of ruin

By playing a playset of conduit of ruins, the deck can cut 2 big eldrazis and stil have a 10 mana eldrazi in hand just as reliably as before. It lowers the mana curve of the deck and de facto increases the threat density, thanks to the card selection. And on top of that, if it survives for a turn, it ramps you into your fatty.

Of course, this is just a theory, and i've only had a few chances to playtest this. The drawback with this line is of course that sometimes you don't want a big eldrazi next turn, you want it this turn. Legacy is a fast format. Even despite that, I intend to try this configuration out, to see if it helps the deck run smoother. Will make sure to report back.

[Cocheloco]

I'm not a very experienced player, but just won a very small tournament with this list: https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/1213697#paper. My opponents had GP experience, so I was definitely an underdog...

The guys playing baleful strix, snapcaster, etc wanted to tear apart my endbringers and walking ballistas when unanswered. I agree that Oblivion didn't ramp enough, but still was a good body to block. Just my 2 cents...

Caprino, nice to see you are back! Are you going to GP Bologna?

[FourDogsinaHorseSuit]

I'm not a very experienced player, but just won a very small tournament with this list: https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/1213697#paper. My opponents had GP experience, so I was definitely an underdog...

The guys playing baleful strix, snapcaster, etc wanted to tear apart my endbringers and walking ballistas when unanswered. I agree that Oblivion didn't ramp enough, but still was a good body to block. Just my 2 cents...

Caprino, nice to see you are back! Are you going to GP Bologna?
Couldn't Conduit also be "a good body to block"?

[Cocheloco]

Couldn't Conduit also be "a good body to block"?

Yes, so I think I will like to try one conduit for one Karn or Oblivion. And 2 more Grim Monolith instead of Basalt Monolith

[marnir]

Yes, so I think I will like to try one conduit for one Karn or Oblivion. And 2 more Grim Monolith instead of Basalt Monolith

Basalt monolith is one of the best cards in the deck, so going up to four is definitely correct. Broken starts like t1 ancient tomb -> grim monolith -> key -> untap monolith, tap again to cast TKS is one of the best things about the deck.

[TLK]

Basalt monolith is one of the best cards in the deck, so going up to four is definitely correct. Broken starts like t1 ancient tomb -> grim monolith -> key -> untap monolith, tap again to cast TKS is one of the best things about the deck.

You mean Grim Monolith? It's definitely a 4-of and worth playing over Basalt.

[marnir]

You mean Grim Monolith? It's definitely a 4-of and worth playing over Basalt.

Yeah, mistype. Grim is the good one.

[JeezXrist]

Hi everyone. I've been playing this deck at my LGS for the last six months or so, and I thought I would share my experience with the deck.
Oblivion Sower
I'm convinced that the card is bad, and I did the math to prove it. Lets assume you are facing an opponent with 20 lands in her deck, 8 of those being fetches. By turn 4, you have a 33 % chance of having drawn urborg, to make the fetches live (if you play 2 urborgs). That will give you an average of 1,33 lands every time you cast sower. Without urborg, that number drops to 0,78 lands. On average for the deck as a whole you can expect 0,98 lands that you can use, each time you cast sower. So basically, it's a 8/5 that ramps you 1 mana against a pretty average deck. To me, both Endbringer and conduit of ruin seem like stronger choices. More on that now.

For me, Oblivion Sower is a meta call.

Our meta here consists of Lands, Maverick, Aggro Loam and such. These decks has tons of land denial which is a problem if we don't land a mana rock and progress in the early game. I have Oblivion Sowers and Spyglasses to counter these. Also Sower is not only good for ramping but also a good counter if you somehow snatch a Wasteland / Ghost Quarter / Karakas for their basic kill, Dark Depths. Sower is also good for the new Miracles. Heck, everyone here knows that Miracles is not a problem but the new builds is quite an issue since they bring in mainboard solutions like Back to Basics and Blood Moon. If the Sower happens to snatch 3-4 basics of their deck then you're quite good.

[Cocheloco]

Have you seen this list? https://www.mtggoldfish.com/player/koolaidg

I like that reshaper can ramp up after dying either by getting most of the mana rocks, expedition or lands

[marnir]

Have you seen this list? https://www.mtggoldfish.com/player/koolaidg

I like that reshaper can ramp up after dying either by getting most of the mana rocks, expedition or lands

I don't see how this deck deals with things like storm though. Cutting sphere and chalice leaves you exposed to any combo deck that is faster than us. That disruption is one of the reasons to play the deck imo.

[Cocheloco]

I don't see how this deck deals with things like storm though. Cutting sphere and chalice leaves you exposed to any combo deck that is faster than us. That disruption is one of the reasons to play the deck imo.

You are right, I didn't see the chalices were out...