Maro mention the possibility of reworking the reserved list, speculators get ill

[Gheizen64]

http://markrosewater.tumblr.com/post/144050279638/do-you-think-we-could-see-more-cards-taken-off-the

Maro comment on removing cards off the reserved list as a "definite possibility" whereas before he always refused to comment on it. Many speculate the new CEOs at WotC are set on making lot of money and move toward a more sustainable model which has proven to be pretty successfull from digital competitors.

Speculators all around the globe are having the worst day of their life probably.

[nevilshute]

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[nevilshute]

jovianhomarid asked:Can you confirm that there were no misunderstandings in the following exchange? "prettyflyforajeskai asked:Do you think we could see more cards taken off the reserve list in the future?It’s definitely a possibility."

Tumblr does this fun thing where it takes my answers and sometimes attaches them to other questions. Sorry.

[Barook]

Cocks isn't even in charge yet.

I'd definitely welcome changes to the RL list. It's an outdated, stupid policy that only fuels speculators/horders & gives counterfeiters more incentive to step up their game.

@nevilshute: Could also be possible that Maro spilled the beans too early and now tries to cover it up.

[nevilshute]

@nevilshute: Could also be possible that Maro spilled the beans too early and now tries to cover it up.

Anything's possible.

[Barook]

Anything's possible.
Now that's a typical Maro response.

They might want to test the waters with EMA first. If it becomes a raging success, it would be dumb to gimp profits by keeping the stupid list. Altering each year between MMA and EMA might be a potential long-term plan to tap more markets while the summer products like Conspiracy are moved to August.

R&D also hates Thunder Spirit on the RL since it prevents them from printing a 2/2 first strike flyer for :1::w::w:.

[MaximumC]

Now that's a typical Maro response.

They might want to test the waters with EMA first. If it becomes a raging success, it would be dumb to gimp profits by keeping the stupid list. Altering each year between MMA and EMA might be a potential long-term plan to tap more markets while the summer products like Conspiracy are moved to August.

R&D also hates Thunder Spirit on the RL since it prevents them from printing a 2/2 first strike flyer for :1::w::w:.

There would have to be some serious insanity or appetite for litigation for them to revoke the reserve list. I, for one, totally welcome them revoking it, but I can't see how it's a good move.

Just print new cards yo. Hell, we found out last week that for Shadows over Innistrad they seriously considered transform lands like this:

Land - Forest
When this is tapped for mana, transform it.

(Flipped)
Land - Mountain
When this is tapped for mana, transform it.

That's yet another land that is at least situationally better than a shockland. Not quite Dual level yet, but clearly they're working on it. There's no reason -- given sets like Conspiracy that dodge Standard -- they can't just reprint cards that broaden the Legacy / Vintage base instead of violating the Reserve List. They've already done it with counterspells and creatures -- the mana base should be up next.

[hymnyou]

I guess the timing is what's the strangest about it. He has had a very, very firm stance up until this exact point on not breaking the list. He has been harsh about not even messing with 'the spirit' of the list in the past.

In his older posts he seems to really not like the reserve list at all, claiming it's a huge mistake and hurts the game. I'm assuming Maro had a lot to do with pushing the foils through when they tested the loophole within the reserve list. I can only imagine all the alleged complaining about loopholing the list caused some company policy discussions. Maro has been responding to RL questions like he took a few corporate lashings for a few years at least, but seems like some sort of door has opened with this latest post.

[btm10]

They might want to test the waters with EMA first. If it becomes a raging success, it would be dumb to gimp profits by keeping the stupid list. Altering each year between MMA and EMA might be a potential long-term plan to tap more markets while the summer products like Conspiracy are moved to August.



I've speculated since EMA was announced that it's mostly a test balloon for what happens when high-priced, non-RL staples are reprinted. It's part of why I expect that we'll see two of Show and Tell, Mana Drain, Rishadan Port, and Imperial Recruiter, and Imperial Seal at Mythic or even at Rare: they're the highest-profile, most expensive Eternal-only cards that can be reprinted and for which substantial pent-up demand is likely a factor in their prices.


There would have to be some serious insanity or appetite for litigation for them to revoke the reserve list. I, for one, totally welcome them revoking it, but I can't see how it's a good move.


If the price drops on the cards I listed above (or whatever other high-value staples get reprinted if I'm wrong on the specifics) are comparable to the MMA-related drops on Modern staples, it becomes much harder to sue WotC for breach of contract or promissory estoppel, especially if they do a slow phase-out of the Reserved List starting with the obvious chaff and the prices of garbage rares from Legends (which are probably the best bellweathers) don't change in price. A good faith effort to honor substantive promise behind the RL (to preserve the value of the cards) backed up by data from MMA and EMA (and Timeshifted cards) is at least going to get a hearing.

[TsumiBand]

Meh, at this point the only thing worth believing is action. Either print the shit or don't, but it's too big an issue to dance around, even for MaRo.

[maharis]

Meh, at this point the only thing worth believing is action. Either print the shit or don't, but it's too big an issue to dance around, even for MaRo.

Right. I'm stuck between "no way they break this news this way" and "'Tumblr ate my homework' is a transparently lame excuse"

They have tried weird things in the past like dropping random next-set cards in the previous set (I'm pretty sure they admitted to that being purposeful with Conspiracy and RTR) so it's not out of the realm of possibility that this is all part of super genius plan.

[Barook]

Right. I'm stuck between "no way they break this news this way" and "'Tumblr ate my homework' is a transparently lame excuse"

They have tried weird things in the past like dropping random next-set cards in the previous set (I'm pretty sure they admitted to that being purposeful with Conspiracy and RTR) so it's not out of the realm of possibility that this is all part of super genius plan.
Or the whole Kozilek/Wastes spoiler disaster (which lead to Judgegate) where Maro indicated the exact day of the leak three times in advance, with the first time being like 2 months beforehand. :really:

[phonics]

The thing with EMA is they need to print expensive cards, but they cant print too many expensive cards without raising the msrp. Just look at the modern masters sets and the relative value of those cards. There are only a handful of 20$+ rares that get reprinted, even fewer 100$+, which there are a ton in eternal formats. They can either go all in and make a ridiculously high EV set that people will scalp (since there is no indication that it isnt going to be a limited run) for eternity or do a MM2 with a handful of decent cards and a bunch of chaff for higher msrp. They take too long to release too few reprints to affect any pricing, I could even see that removing the reserve list would cause little change to the status quo because of how unwilling they are to reprint cards that they can reprint freely anyways.

[btm10]

The thing with EMA is they need to print expensive cards, but they cant print too many expensive cards without raising the msrp. Just look at the modern masters sets and the relative value of those cards. There are only a handful of 20$+ rares that get reprinted, even fewer 100$+, which there are a ton in eternal formats. They can either go all in and make a ridiculously high EV set that people will scalp (since there is no indication that it isnt going to be a limited run) for eternity or do a MM2 with a handful of decent cards and a bunch of chaff for higher msrp. They take too long to release too few reprints to affect any pricing, I could even see that removing the reserve list would cause little change to the status quo because of how unwilling they are to reprint cards that they can reprint freely anyways.

That's true, but I think they're going to have a few cards at the top end of secondary market values to test what happens when those cards get reprinted. Aside from largely defeating the purpose of the set if none make it in (Wasteland and Force are significantly less expensive than Tarmogoyf even now), there isn't that much value even disclosed yet. If EMA Force is roughly equivalent to MMA Goyf, then EMA is going to have lower value than MMA. Force/Bob, Recruiter/Goyf makes way more sense if the values are roughly in line.

[Dark Ritual]

I'd be shocked if they put imperial seal in EMA. They are super stingy when it comes to cards that command a price tag as large as imperial seal, imperial recruiter, and ravages of war. I'm betting seal just gets a judge promo reprint at best. Mythic in EMA makes the price go from $600+ to under $50 overnight as it's likely the biggest bubble in MTG as the card really isn't that good but the supply is so damn low since P3K if I'm to make an analogy was kind of like modern masters in terms of print run for the time/a super limited set in comparison to masques and such.

As for what happens next, it's always a wait and see with the reserved list. If I don't read anything about it on the mothership I will not hold my breath if anyone else says they're removing these X cards from the list they'd have to provide hard evidence to back up their claim.

[Dice_Box]

Until I see something official I will carry on, business as usual.

[GundamGuy]

This is interesting.

I mean if I were in Maro's position I would totally say vague things just to mess with speculators. Got to keep them on their tows. :laugh:

As in I don't know how much stock I want to put in this.

[Megadeus]

(since there is no indication that it isnt going to be a limited run)

They've said the print run will be closer to MM1 than MM2 I believe

[MaximumC]

That's true, but I think they're going to have a few cards at the top end of secondary market values to test what happens when those cards get reprinted. Aside from largely defeating the purpose of the set if none make it in (Wasteland and Force are significantly less expensive than Tarmogoyf even now), there isn't that much value even disclosed yet. If EMA Force is roughly equivalent to MMA Goyf, then EMA is going to have lower value than MMA. Force/Bob, Recruiter/Goyf makes way more sense if the values are roughly in line.

All I need is Imperial Recruiter.

C'mon WOTC, save me $300.00 and let me finally complete my Legacy Painter and Aluren decks...

[LegacyIsAnEternalFormat]

So apparently this was a mistake:
http://markrosewater.tumblr.com/post/144058950548/can-you-confirm-that-there-were-no

[ScottW]

That's so funny!

[Crimhead]

Tumblr does this fun thing where it takes my answers and sometimes attaches them to other questions. Sorry.That's a fun fact from MaRo - but for the record he has said nothing to confirm nor refute his alleged comments in question.

[phonics]

How expensive were Loyal Retainers before they were reprinted in the commander set?

[Crimhead]

How expensive were Loyal Retainers before they were reprinted in the commander set?
About $300-$350 if I recall correctly.

[Ace/Homebrew]

About $300-$350 if I recall correctly.
I can only find prices back to 2010, but at that time it was $160-170.

[Barook]

I can only find prices back to 2010, but at that time it was $160-170.
This (http://www.mtggoldfish.com/price/Portal+Three+Kingdoms/Loyal+Retainers#paper)

[Ace/Homebrew]

This (http://www.mtggoldfish.com/price/Portal+Three+Kingdoms/Loyal+Retainers#paper)
Right, my bad. I thought phonics asked where it peaked.

[Crimhead]

Sorry, I thought we were talking about Imperial Recruiter before the judge foil. Reading is tech!

[Aggro_zombies]

That's a fun fact from MaRo - but for the record he has said nothing to confirm nor refute his alleged comments in question.
FWIW he's had this issue in the past and on less controversial questions. Tumblr is a shitty site anyway, so I'm willing to believe this isn't indicative of any future policy changes.

[Arsenal]

Is the RL something looked at from the Wizards level or Hasbro level? I could see incoming CEO being brought up to speed on Wizards policy and laughed the RL out of the room.

[Sidneyious]

If they want money from eternal players then the rl needs to go.

[Mr.C]

Is the RL something looked at from the Wizards level or Hasbro level? I could see incoming CEO being brought up to speed on Wizards policy and laughed the RL out of the room.

Nobody knows. Nobody knows if there was even a class action that was settled legally. If that's what happened, then the only way duals are getting reprinted is in China.

[rlesko]

So apparently this was a mistake:
http://markrosewater.tumblr.com/post/144058950548/can-you-confirm-that-there-were-no

that sucks.