View Full Version : Kaladesh -or- When Kiran met Pia
Barook
09-07-2016, 11:50 AM
Edit - that said flavor question: Who invented this? Why? And why would anyone want to see this at an Inventor's Fair?
Some men just want to watch the world burn.
Dice_Box
09-07-2016, 11:54 AM
Some men just want to watch the world burn.
Doesn't look like a Red mages work. Our stuff us far more... Pretty.
supremePINEAPPLE
09-07-2016, 12:01 PM
I just bought the Thing in the Ice, Pyromancer shit I needed. I could see it in that kind of deck.That deck is so fun, make sure you look at Sam Black's monastery mentor/bedlam reveler deck that was on SCG a few days ago too if you are into that sort of thing.
The reservoir is ridiculous but super cool. The set is turning out really interesting so far.
MaximumC
09-07-2016, 12:37 PM
Another good point about Reservoir that I noticed on the The Drain: you actually CAN make this Storm Squared if you use only instants.
Cast an instant, trigger goes on the stack. Hold priority.
Cast another instant, put it on stack above the trigger. Trigger on the stack. Hold priority.
And so on.
Once you finally let them resolve, your spells all have increased the storm count and so you gain life equal to storm^2.
Now, this doesn't let you chain spells from your deck, since you need to start resolving triggers to get your draw spells to resolve, but still.
Another good point about Reservoir that I noticed on the The Drain: you actually CAN make this Storm Squared if you use only instants.
Cast an instant, trigger goes on the stack. Hold priority.
Cast another instant, put it on stack above the trigger. Trigger on the stack. Hold priority.
And so on.
Once you finally let them resolve, your spells all have increased the storm count and so you gain life equal to storm^2.
Now, this doesn't let you chain spells from your deck, since you need to start resolving triggers to get your draw spells to resolve, but still.
:eek: I'm just thinking what a nightmare this card will be to keep track of when your casting cantrips, stacking triggers, then drawing, reseting back to regular storm count, etc.
MaximumC
09-07-2016, 01:03 PM
:eek: I'm just thinking what a nightmare this card will be to keep track of when your casting cantrips, stacking triggers, then drawing, reseting back to regular storm count, etc.
Player 1: "Okay, cast Preordain. Trigger on the stack, hold priority."
Player 2: "Alright."
Player 1: "Bolt your creature, trigger on the stack, hold priority."
Player 2: "...sure."
Player 1: "Brainstorm, trigger on the stack, pass priority to the trigger?"
Player 2: "No responses, I pass priority."
Player 1:" Okay, so one of my triggers resolve. I gain 3. Now I resolve Brainstorm. I'll put... these two back. I will cast Manmorphose, trigger on the stack, hold priority."
Player 2: "Right."
Player 1: "Cast bolt, trigger on the stack. Pass priority to the trigger?"
Player 2: "You got it."
Player 1: "Okay, so, gain 5 life. Resolve Manamorphose. Still in response, cast another Manamorphose - I'm gonna pass priority back to resolve it, is that okay?"
Player 2: "Sure."
Player 1: "Okay. Gain 6 life. Looks like I'm on empty now. So, I'll let the stack empty. Uh... how many triggers do I have left?"
Player 2: "I lost count."
GAMERULESVIOLAT'D
ahg113
09-07-2016, 01:04 PM
https://images1.mtggoldfish.com/uploads/e46b06ac-43af-4285-b56c-4ad18fa5ee0b/Paradoxical-Outcome.png
Mana artifacts, aka Moxen? That's the first thing that comes into my mind. Might be too expensive to be any good in Eternal, though.
Late to party, first thought was of Cheerios.
Zombie
09-07-2016, 01:04 PM
Another good point about Reservoir that I noticed on the The Drain: you actually CAN make this Storm Squared if you use only instants.
Cast an instant, trigger goes on the stack. Hold priority.
Cast another instant, put it on stack above the trigger. Trigger on the stack. Hold priority.
And so on.
Once you finally let them resolve, your spells all have increased the storm count and so you gain life equal to storm^2.
Now, this doesn't let you chain spells from your deck, since you need to start resolving triggers to get your draw spells to resolve, but still.
Well, it does kill with 5 spells if it's on the field, which can't be that bad.
Barook
09-07-2016, 01:06 PM
Deck Idea:
4 Shrieking Drake
4 High Tide
4 Remand
4 Aetherflux Reservoir
4 Force of Will
4 Ponder
4 Preordain
4 Brainstorm
X Candelabra of Tawnos
X Whatever, I Don't Know
X Islands
Ehh, this is a bad idea, I feel bad.
EDIT: Oh, obviously Top + Top + Helm of Awakening, duh. It just get's worse and worse.
I think Top is mandatory, even without going infinite. Double Top is already disastrous and charges it up very quickly.
If it sees competitive play, I wonder how long it will take until we get Death Star alters for it.
MaximumC
09-07-2016, 01:08 PM
I think Top is mandatory, even without going infinite. Double Top is already disastrous and charges it up very quickly.
If it sees competitive play, I wonder how long it will take until we get Death Star alters for it.
The best news is that all of these combotastic cards are pre-selling at super cheap while people are busy stuffing 20's into Chandra and Nissa's garter belts.
MaximumC
09-07-2016, 01:11 PM
Well, it does kill with 5 spells if it's on the field, which can't be that bad.
Only against one of these
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e9/Goldfish3.jpg/220px-Goldfish3.jpg
Player 1: "Okay, cast Preordain. Trigger on the stack, hold priority."
Player 2: "Alright."
Player 1: "Bolt your creature, trigger on the stack, hold priority."
Player 2: "...sure."
Player 1: "Brainstorm, trigger on the stack, pass priority to the trigger?"
Player 2: "No responses, I pass priority."
Player 1:" Okay, so one of my triggers resolve. I gain 3. Now I resolve Brainstorm. I'll put... these two back. I will cast Manmorphose, trigger on the stack, hold priority."
Player 2: "Right."
Player 1: "Cast bolt, trigger on the stack. Pass priority to the trigger?"
Player 2: "You got it."
Player 1: "Okay, so, gain 5 life. Resolve Manamorphose. Still in response, cast another Manamorphose - I'm gonna pass priority back to resolve it, is that okay?"
Player 2: "Sure."
Player 1: "Okay. Gain 6 life. Looks like I'm on empty now. So, I'll let the stack empty. Uh... how many triggers do I have left?"
Player 2: "I lost count."
GAMERULESVIOLAT'D
My brain melted trying to figure this out :tongue:
I think Top is mandatory, even without going infinite. Double Top is already disastrous and charges it up very quickly.
If it sees competitive play, I wonder how long it will take until we get Death Star alters for it.
Meh, I don't know that it's any better than High Tide as it is, so it's probably worse.
The best news is that all of these combotastic cards are pre-selling at super cheap while people are busy stuffing 20's into Chandra and Nissa's garter belts.
This guy here, with the altered-art ideas, :laugh:
ahg113
09-07-2016, 01:31 PM
Just for the heck of it...
The inclusion of dwarves feels like a bait-n-switch in a similar manner to the minotaurs in Theros block, but worst. Why are these dwarves in white?
Balthor did not die for this.
/vorthos
P.S. - to stay on topic, have most of what's needed for Solidarity, except for the obvious Candels. Aetherworks looks so fun and stupid, I'm contemplating spending $1200 on a playset. If I refi my house...
Just for the heck of it...
The inclusion of dwarves feels like a bait-n-switch in a similar manner to the minotaurs in Theros block, but worst. Why are these dwarves in white?
Balthor did not die for this.
/vorthos
I bought some Dwarven Recruiters just in case. I felt $2 was a reasonable cost.
Just had an idea, Aetherflux Reservoir plus Lich in a Mono-Black "Storm" deck! So bad you won't even believe it!
Intervention Pact + Madcap Experiment into aetherflux reservoir can kill them in one hit?
Intervention Pact + Madcap Experiment into aetherflux reservoir can kill them in one hit?
Where do you get 50 life to pay though?
You can't pay life you don't have.
maharis
09-07-2016, 01:39 PM
Intervention Pact + Madcap Experiment into aetherflux reservoir can kill them in one hit?
I texted this to a friend earlier.
You have to flip a lot of cards, which you unfortunately can't control, but wouldn't it be so worth it?
Where do you get 50 life to pay though?
You can't pay life you don't have.
Intervention Pact gains you life equal to the damage it prevents.
So you have Reservoir on the bottom of your library and are at 20 (for example). You cast Madcap, hold priority, Intervention Pact choosing Madcap. You flip ~ 40 cards and Reservoir hits the field. 40 damage assigned and prevented, 40 life gained, pay 50, gg
MaximumC
09-07-2016, 01:43 PM
The Return of Nourishing Lich?
Where do you get 50 life to pay though?
You can't pay life you don't have.
Pact reverse damages you as you dig to the reservoir. As long as it is fifty cards down, you are good to go.
Dice_Box
09-07-2016, 01:48 PM
The Return of Nourishing Lich?
Careful what you wish for.
The Return of Nourishing Lich?
:cool:
Pact reverse damages you as you dig to the reservoir. As long as it is fifty cards down, you are good to go.
Thought I knew what that Pact did. I was wrong, :frown:
The Nobodys
09-07-2016, 01:50 PM
Been loving all this Aetherowks Reservoir talk, the card is just cool. Realized it's also good in multiples to get you to 50 just that much faster. I'm surprised they didn't make it lengendary.
I texted this to a friend earlier.
You have to flip a lot of cards, which you unfortunately can't control, but wouldn't it be so worth it?
Yeah. . . umm best I can come up with is to play a lot of:
Ancient Stirrings
Fertile Thicket
Hideaway lands
Scry Duals
Oath of Nissa
Preordain
Serum's Visions
?
Yeah - there a lot better things to do with Madcap.
That said regarding - the Reservoir:
Look at it this way:
Turn 1 - Land
Turn 2 - Fetch - Instant (removal/draw/whatever)(7 cards in hand) (lets assume you lose 4 life every other turn so, every other due to the fact that you will be removing cards every now and then . . . 15 life)
Turn 3 - Fetch - Instant (removal/draw/whatever)(6 cards in hand) (14 life)
Turn 4 - Fetch - Aetherwork (5 cards in hand)(10 life)
Turn 5 - Cast 3 instants, assume one is a draw (4 cards in hand)(Gain 9 life + 10 from turn before = 19 life)
Turn 7 - Cast 3 instants, assume one is a draw (3 cards in hand)(Gain 9 life - 4 + 19 from turn before = 24 life)
Turn 8 - Cast 3 instants, assume one is a draw (2 cards in hand)(Gain 9 life + 24 from turn before = 33 life)
Turn 9 - You can afford to slow down . . you up a lot of life, you cast a crap ton of instant, you might have removed a bunch of cards. . . build you hand up and repeat this process until you have 50 life and then win. . .
Really you just need a deck that is:
4 Aetherwork
20-24 lands
32-36 Instants.
That's it really.
MaximumC
09-07-2016, 02:01 PM
:cool:
Thought I knew what that Pact did. I was wrong, :frown:
Don't worry, it is a garbage card with no utility outside of this janky combo.
I put my money (literally) on Soulfire Grand Master doing something. Did you know it's down to like two bucks now?
Turboninja
09-07-2016, 02:20 PM
Don't worry, it is a garbage card with no utility outside of this janky combo.
I put my money (literally) on Soulfire Grand Master doing something. Did you know it's down to like two bucks now?
Well now it can save you from that Madcap shenanigan!
Don't worry, it is a garbage card with no utility outside of this janky combo.
I put my money (literally) on Soulfire Grand Master doing something. Did you know it's down to like two bucks now?
Not really surprised, it's price was almost all hype really. Did you ever see it played in a real deck outside Standard?
If you go that route though, I think you want to play some way to give your chosen dude Haste. I'd say Faithless Looting with Anger but he isn't Modern legal. Or are we thinking Legacy?
rufus
09-07-2016, 02:27 PM
....
Yeah - there a lot better things to do with Madcap.
E.g. combo with Enlightened Tutor.
That said regarding - the Reservoir:
....
If you're hitting 3 spells per turn, the difference between instant and sorcery speed is relatively small (6 life or 9 life). I think you're better off with the free-cycling cards at that rate.
E.g. combo with Enlightened Tutor.
If you're hitting 3 spells per turn, the difference between instant and sorcery speed is relatively small (6 life or 9 life). I think you're better off with the free-cycling cards at that rate.
I guess you can play:
4 Aetherwork
24 Lands
32 of the best spells you can find (maybe mix in some life gain in their to accel you to win?)
TsumiBand
09-07-2016, 02:57 PM
It's obviously a Glimpse of Nature combo piece, duh
You play Glimpse, free cantrip things, and like Kobolds or Thopters or w/e is hipster. You draw your deck, you gain a stupid asston of life, you 1-shot your opponent. Hell, it might be sideboard tech for Elves! if they're in a match where they can get all the doods in play but can't swing with them, because... Moat? Or Terminus fear, or something?
MaximumC
09-07-2016, 02:57 PM
I guess you can play:
4 Aetherwork
24 Lands
32 of the best spells you can find (maybe mix in some life gain in their to accel you to win?)
I still like the Soulfire plan. 2 mana for a useful dork who is a 2/2 lifelinker in the early game to trade with opponent's threats or at least slow them down in a race. Midgame, it combos with Madcap. Late game, it doubles your lightning bolts and swords. Seems like a terribly decent thing.
Zombie
09-07-2016, 03:15 PM
It's obviously a Glimpse of Nature combo piece, duh
You play Glimpse, free cantrip things, and like Kobolds or Thopters or w/e is hipster. You draw your deck, you gain a stupid asston of life, you 1-shot your opponent. Hell, it might be sideboard tech for Elves! if they're in a match where they can get all the doods in play but can't swing with them, because... Moat? Or Terminus fear, or something?
In those MUs you bounce Shaman of the Pack a couple times.
TsumiBand
09-07-2016, 03:26 PM
In those MUs you bounce Shaman of the Pack a couple times.
I forgot that was a card! Welp.
Zombie
09-07-2016, 03:33 PM
I forgot that was a card! Welp.
The deck also contains DRS and 8 untap effects.
The Nobodys
09-07-2016, 03:43 PM
I still like the Soulfire plan. 2 mana for a useful dork who is a 2/2 lifelinker in the early game to trade with opponent's threats or at least slow them down in a race. Midgame, it combos with Madcap. Late game, it doubles your lightning bolts and swords. Seems like a terribly decent thing.
As someone who loved Soulfire and tried to play it in Modern, the card is actually good if he sticks around. The problem with him that I ran into, is that you want your deck to be relatively creature light and burn heavy, which means he's getting all the removal attention and it's hard to keep one on board. Kolaghan's command helps a little in that department. But to combo with Madcap? You'd want to strip their hand of removal, or try to catch them tapped out. Actually, now that I think about it, some BWR with targeted removal wouldn't be that hard to pull off.
Barook
09-07-2016, 05:58 PM
Flavor win: The Aetherflux Reservoir laser can be recharged by sacrificing children (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=110525&type=card).
https://aaltomies.files.wordpress.com/2016/02/think-of-the-children1.jpg
TsumiBand
09-07-2016, 06:13 PM
Flavor win: The Aetherflux Reservoir laser can be recharged by sacrificing children (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=110525&type=card).
https://aaltomies.files.wordpress.com/2016/02/think-of-the-children1.jpg
Actually a friend was just texting me about the Reservoir. Know what's a terrible 2-card multiplayer combo? Reservoir and Sydri. Lol.
rufus
09-07-2016, 08:39 PM
I guess you can play:
4 Aetherwork
24 Lands
32 of the best spells you can find (maybe mix in some life gain in their to accel you to win?)
I could see it going a couple of directions...
Free cyclers
Manamorphose
Gitaxian Probe
Mishra's Bauble
Urza's Bauble
Quality Cantrips
Brainstorm
Ponder
Maybe play frogmite/transmute as a tutor package
Frogmite
Transmute Artifact
With some 1-ofs as tutor targets.
Lotus Bloom
Zuran Orb
The card of the hour
Aetherwork
And mana sources
Mox Opal
Chrome Mox
Seat of the Synod
Gemstone Mine
Ancient Tomb
...
HdH_Cthulhu
09-08-2016, 01:22 AM
you forgot SDT
http://i.imgur.com/81wDfC0.png
Wildest Dreams - XXG
Sorcery - R
Return X target cards from your graveyard to your hand.
Exile Wildest Dreams.
So, it's a better Green Recall. Probably not really playable, but interesting for EDH at least.
Dice_Box
09-08-2016, 07:51 AM
Sweet. A way to get more than one Time Walk back in my Edric deck.
Ace/Homebrew
09-08-2016, 08:10 AM
Wildest Dreams - XXG
Sorcery - R
Return X target cards from your graveyard to your hand.
Exile Wildest Dreams.
http://www.gannett-cdn.com/-mm-/e5814c9acdf0579ccd52c37c2f85947f747d7fca/c=0-0-572-430&r=x404&c=534x401/local/-/media/2015/09/03/USATODAY/USATODAY/635768657077456952-taylor-swift-wildest-dreams-video-2015-billboard-650.jpg
Ahhhhhh-AH! ahhhhhhhhhhhh...
Lemnear
09-08-2016, 09:24 AM
http://www.gannett-cdn.com/-mm-/e5814c9acdf0579ccd52c37c2f85947f747d7fca/c=0-0-572-430&r=x404&c=534x401/local/-/media/2015/09/03/USATODAY/USATODAY/635768657077456952-taylor-swift-wildest-dreams-video-2015-billboard-650.jpg
Ahhhhhh-AH! ahhhhhhhhhhhh...
For some decks its TAYLOR-made...
Dice_Box
09-08-2016, 09:28 AM
For some decks its TAYLOR-made...
3/10. Stiff delivery.
3/10. Stiff delivery.
Perhaps he was just too SWIFT in delivering it?
http://i.imgur.com/SO4yBzH.png
How much energy will make Aetherworks marvel playable?
This plus the puzzleknots, maybe the black energy kill, or another energy creature? Idk, we're still only halfway.
Edit - also in a vacuum, this seems like a really pushed common. It's basically a 1/4 for U.
HdH_Cthulhu
09-08-2016, 10:07 AM
Ofc its better then the camel. Why would white have better 1 drops?
Hmmm i wonder if they print an engery producing land?
rufus
09-08-2016, 10:18 AM
...
Edit - also in a vacuum, this seems like a really pushed common. It's basically a 1/4 for U.
The whole cycle is pretty pushed.
Gheizen64
09-08-2016, 10:29 AM
Yeah the red one is essentially a 3/2 for 1R.
Noctalor
09-08-2016, 10:41 AM
https://i.gyazo.com/ffb279c57a1aa08ef9bec17bc878b6c3.png
We need some more storm hate, I wish they give even fucking mono green an hatebear that shuts the engine down :smile:
https://i.gyazo.com/ffb279c57a1aa08ef9bec17bc878b6c3.png
We need some more storm hate, I wish they give even fucking mono green an hatebear that shuts the engine down :smile:
Perhaps a reason to run Deadguy?
http://i.imgur.com/8U4tole.png
Extraction effects are just getting less and less expensive. They really hate Punishing Fire and Loam, huh?
Noctalor
09-08-2016, 10:58 AM
What a time to be alive, this deck could be viable in modern
4 Lost legacy
1 Laboratory Maniac
1 Pentad Prism
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Shelldock Isle
4 Emrakul, the AEons Thorn
4 Surgical Extraction
X Shadowborn Apostle
X Lands
And just go turn 2/3 Lost Legacy on ourself, it will grant an hand full of cards since all the apostles are going to get replaced, this looks funny.
What a time to be alive, this deck could be viable in modern
4 Lost legacy
1 Laboratory Maniac
1 Pentad Prism
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Shelldock Isle
4 Emrakul, the AEons Thorn
4 Surgical Extraction
X Shadowborn Apostle
X Lands
And just go turn 2/3 Lost Legacy on ourself, it will grant an hand full of cards since all the apostles are going to get replaced, this looks funny.
Might as well have one Griselbrand in there, just in case you want to win the "old-fashioned" way.
rufus
09-08-2016, 11:03 AM
What a time to be alive, this deck could be viable in modern
4 Lost legacy
...
X Shadowborn Apostle
X Lands
And just go turn 2/3 Lost Legacy on ourself, it will grant an hand full of cards since all the apostles are going to get replaced, this looks funny.
If you get to critical mass, Sphinx of the Chimes or Thrumming Stone too.
The player only draw the cards if you exile from the player's hand.
maharis
09-08-2016, 11:16 AM
Lemnear meltdown in 3.... 2....
http://media.wizards.com/2016/bVvMNuiu2i_KLD/en_PpHQrOfn71.png
Edit: I'm sorry, I didn't see Noctalor had posted already. Still, lol.
l33twash0r
09-08-2016, 11:20 AM
Lemnear meltdown in 3.... 2....
http://media.wizards.com/2016/bVvMNuiu2i_KLD/en_PpHQrOfn71.png
https://boardgametime.files.wordpress.com/2012/04/table_flip.jpg
Garbage fire that creature down
Noctalor
09-08-2016, 11:21 AM
The player only draw the cards if you exile from the player's hand.
Yes, the plan is to replace the apostles in your hand with fresh cards, not to draw 30 cards at once.
BenBleiweiss
09-08-2016, 11:21 AM
What a time to be alive, this deck could be viable in modern
4 Lost legacy
1 Laboratory Maniac
1 Pentad Prism
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Shelldock Isle
4 Emrakul, the AEons Thorn
4 Surgical Extraction
X Shadowborn Apostle
X Lands
And just go turn 2/3 Lost Legacy on ourself, it will grant an hand full of cards since all the apostles are going to get replaced, this looks funny.
I misread the card at first too - you only draw cards from the cards exiled out of your hand (or your opponent only draws cards exiled out of their hand), regardless of how many are exiled out of deck/graveyard/etc.
Noctalor
09-08-2016, 11:26 AM
I misread the card at first too - you only draw cards from the cards exiled out of your hand (or your opponent only draws cards exiled out of their hand), regardless of how many are exiled out of deck/graveyard/etc.
Read above.
ScottW
09-08-2016, 11:40 AM
https://i.gyazo.com/ffb279c57a1aa08ef9bec17bc878b6c3.png
We need some more storm hate, I wish they give even fucking mono green an hatebear that shuts the engine down :smile:
Why 2/3? This is ridiculous. Now you can accessorize your hate bears to match your tournament outfit.
Why 2/3? This is ridiculous. Now you can accessorize your hate bears to match your tournament outfit.
In the grim darkness of the far future there are only creatures.
Lemnear
09-08-2016, 11:50 AM
Another set, another white I-hate-spells-and-combo-decks card
Trying to figure out how many Apostles you need for Lost Legacy to work with Shelldock.
I would estimate it with this made up formula I came up with
60 - (6+T [Cards drawn]) - (X) - ([??] [estimation of how many Apostles you drawn and will thus draw through lost legacy] - ((T-1)*2 [Fetches, not including the Shelldock land drop]) = 20
where X is apostles
T is the turn you go off.
[??] is unknown math, since i have no clue how to calculate this - but i'm going to just guess its around equal to the turn it is.
So going off
turn 2 you will need around 28 Apostles
turn 3 you will need around 24 Apostles
turn 4 you will need around 20 Apostles
turn 5 you will need around 16 Apostles
Either way - it doesn't really appear to be worth it to try to combo out with it, if it's not drawing you equal to all of the exiled cards. . .
Ofc its better then the camel. Why would white have better 1 drops?
Hmmm i wonder if they print an engery producing land?
http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/avatars/thumbnails/126/947/200/283/636089260525055620.png
You Rang?
Edit: also isn't this a better tendo ice bridge since it can recharge more easily (the cards that give energy seem to be a lot better than cards that give charge)? Also another card for the inevitable Aetherworks Marvel Deck!
The dream is:
Turn 1 - Island + Energy Turtle
Turn 2 - Energy Land + Energy Puzzle
Turn 3 - Land + Marvel --> Emrakul.
:tongue:
Ace/Homebrew
09-08-2016, 12:02 PM
Edit: also isn't this a better Tendo Ice Bridge since it can recharge more easily (the cards that give energy seem to be a lot better than cards that give charge)? Also another card for the inevitable Aetherworks Marvel Deck!
Yes, but not strictly better. When Aether Hub enters the battlefield, there is a trigger that your opponent can respond to (meaning the land only makes colorless until after the trigger resolves).
I'm surprised they went in the Ice Bridge direction with the card rather than as a storage land (Calciform Pools).
rufus
09-08-2016, 12:20 PM
...
I'm surprised they went in the Ice Bridge direction with the card rather than as a storage land (Calciform Pools).
They probably made a deliberate decision that {E} has to cost cards/permanents.
Barook
09-08-2016, 01:01 PM
Am I the only one who is not really impressed by Kambal? It's yet another 3-drop hatebear (which we got a lot lately - Big Thalia, Leovold, Prelate, now Kambal) - which limits its usefulness immensely, especially in that color combination. Kambal basically requires DRS to be in the deck.
Lost Legacy, however? Yes, that's the stuff. :cool:
Gotta say that this energy counter mechanic is actually really cool and opens up quite some design space.
Also:
T2: Woodweaver's Puzzleknot
T3: Sac the knot
T4: Play Aetherworks Marvel, use it immediately, cast Emrakul or Ulamog 2.0 seems decent in standard?
Cambriel
09-08-2016, 01:06 PM
Lost Legacy, however? Yes, that's the stuff. :cool:
Potentially the strongest sideboard hate card since Rest in Peace, imo.
rufus
09-08-2016, 01:12 PM
...
Extraction effects are just getting less and less expensive. They really hate Punishing Fire and Loam, huh?
They're like counterspells: the value is (roughly) proportional to how big the mistakes R&D has made are.
Ace/Homebrew
09-08-2016, 01:13 PM
Potentially the strongest sideboard hate card since Rest in Peace, imo.
Really? :eyebrow:
RiP makes it impossible for Dredge to win and is a big problem for stuff like Reanimater or Lands.
Plus it is easily castable by D&T or Miracles and can be found by Enlightened Tutor.
What deck that can make :1::b::b: wants it?
And what decks can't win if it resolves?
I'm not saying I disagree with you, I just don't see it yet...
HdH_Cthulhu
09-08-2016, 01:16 PM
Yah its a bit slow compared to surgical/extirpate...
rufus
09-08-2016, 01:43 PM
Yah its a bit slow compared to surgical/extirpate...
But you can clip 1-2 of cards like Ad Nauseam with it before they hit the graveyard, and stuff like Cunning Wish that never will.
PirateKing
09-08-2016, 01:48 PM
I've come across a few decks with Slaughter Games in the side, so Lost Legacy isn't without uses.
I don't think this is going to shift the format much though, Extirpate and Surgical Extraction are impressive, I don't think people will stop using those as go to sideboard hate.
bruizar
09-08-2016, 01:56 PM
Serum Powder + 20x Relentless Rats + Lost Legacy + bunch of rituals/stormcards.dec
Mulligan to ritual, land, lost legacy
Draw 20
Storm
GG
TsumiBand
09-08-2016, 01:59 PM
Serum Powder + 20x Relentless Rats + Lost Legacy + bunch of rituals/stormcards.dec
Mulligan to ritual, land, lost legacy
Draw 20
Storm
GG
The player will only draw for each card they lost from hand. So this is like the most terrible Draw 4 combo ever
bruizar
09-08-2016, 02:01 PM
The player will only draw for each card they lost from hand. So this is like the most terrible Draw 4 combo ever
Ugh, RTFC :-)
Ah well, it was almost a lot of fun.
TsumiBand
09-08-2016, 02:04 PM
Ugh, RTFC :-)
Ah well, it was almost a lot of fun.
I mean, there might be something to playing a 25-card combo deck. But it's kind of like a.... goofy Doomsday at that point, right
bruizar
09-08-2016, 02:05 PM
I mean, there might be something to playing a 25-card combo deck. But it's kind of like a.... goofy Doomsday at that point, right
At least you have a very consistent plan B in the form of aggro :)
Cambriel
09-08-2016, 02:25 PM
Yah its a bit slow compared to surgical/extirpate...
The difference between 3cmc and 4cmc is pretty extreme. A full turn faster makes it much stronger vs combo, and it doesn't require any prior discard effect. Also, Chalice won't stop it (though no combo deck really uses Chalice).
Put it this way: the weaknesses of Sadistic Sacrament are that it can't ever hit a full playset of a card, and it costs triple black. This is easier to cast, and can strip a card completely. The weakness is not hitting artifacts, which has less relevance in Legacy than Vintage where you can't strip Time Vault, but you *can* strip Oath.
This is a hammer, not a scalpel. It's not as broadly applicable as Rest in Peace, but that's also why I said "since." There hasn't been any sideboard tech since then that compares favorably to this. The color hosers have been awful, and there has been little else.
Really? :eyebrow:
RiP makes it impossible for Dredge to win and is a big problem for stuff like Reanimater or Lands.
Plus it is easily castable by D&T or Miracles and can be found by Enlightened Tutor.
What deck that can make :1::b::b: wants it?
And what decks can't win if it resolves?
I'm not saying I disagree with you, I just don't see it yet...
I'm not trying to make Lost Legacy seem like the second coming, but there are advantages to a more proactive approach that it provides as opposed to Surgical. In the instance that your opponent is careful with something like Loam and holds up a Cycle Land or some such, being able to tag them with a Surgical can be difficult. There are also odd times where it can be difficult to tag a Punishing Fire, but I'm not going to write all that out. I'd venture to speculate that versus any sort of Combo deck that isn't actually Dredge, Lost Legacy is better versus them than Surgical. Most notably Storm, where if Infernal Tutor hits the 'yard, you are probably already dead. With LL, you could tag it straight away and seriously hamper their ability to find what they need. Not that I really advocate such a card versus Storm or Combo, but people do board them in, I've noticed.
In no way do I think you should throw away your Surgicals (or Extirpates) but this card has merit I do believe. Decks with Deathrites can cast this Turn 2, which is nothing to really scoff at. You can even be a jerk and turn 2 this versus Miracles to snag Terminus, which would allow a create deck to extend out further than it could otherwise (or name Swords and force them to dig and set up for everything, or just give them the finger and name Top). Most BUG decks matchup versus a Burn deck is so bad, it might even be worth it to hail-Mary it up and cast it naming Price of Progress and hope you can grind it out from there.
Lost Legacy is playable, not better than what we have, per se, but different in a way that could possibly matter.
Cambriel
09-08-2016, 03:01 PM
or just give them the finger and name Top).
Non-artifact, so can't hit Top. Hitting Terminus wouldn't be awful in a creature deck though.
The magic scenario of Leovold in play, strip Swords to Plowshares would be pretty amusing. Leave them hoping for a natural miracle or bust.
Non-artifact, so can't hit Top. Hitting Terminus wouldn't be awful in a creature deck though.
The magic scenario of Leovold in play, strip Swords to Plowshares would be pretty amusing. Leave them hoping for a natural miracle or bust.
Bleh, yeah, I didn't write that first for a reason, then I was like, "heh, get that Top". Stupid me. Yeah, I did forget about Leo though, even better.
Lost Legacy isn't bad, I think it is a reasonable option really as long as you are running some kind of acceleration (i.e. Deathrite).
Mono black with Lost Legacy, Surgical, Bob, DRS, Dark ritual, a bunch of discard, creature kill, seems alright?
Mono black with Lost Legacy, Surgical, Bob, DRS, Dark ritual, a bunch of discard, creature kill, seems alright?
Sure, solidly tier 2. I'm sure you'll win some games. A guy recently top 8'ed a SCG with 4 Hypnotic Specter in his deck, can't imagine this is all that less playable than that. I'm sure you'll wreck someone with it while they hold a grip of Stifles and/or Wastelands or other cards that bsically do nothing.
Megadeus
09-08-2016, 05:27 PM
Lost Legacy is sweet in my opinion. The BGX Deathrite decks get a pretty damn good way to fight combo, and like has been said, naming Terminus against Miracles is pretty sick. All on turn two means it's difficult to counter and it's quick against Combo if you can lead on a Deathrite. Definitely Playable
Poron
09-08-2016, 06:18 PM
no card like that will ever make sense in a format with Slaughter Games.
You can play 4 Deathrite Shaman and Stifle/Wasteland/Spell Pierce/Daze to gain 1 turn to cast the uncounterable beast that takes... what?
That's the point. What does it name nowadays those cards? Loam? Punishing Fire? Show and Tell?
After all those efforts they can still play a Sneak Attack or they still can Thespian Stage into Dark Dephts.
Surgical Extraction is so big because it responds to Reanimate effects for free and it can be double casted through Snapcaster Mage.
Lost Legacy, Slaughter Games and other stuff like that don't allow that. In the end: not very good cards.
ahg113
09-08-2016, 10:49 PM
The more i see the Decoction, Fabrication, Animation Modules, the more I like them. Just for flavor and fun. Ideally though, these things should have some sorta gesalt application. If you control all three, something magical happens, just because.
Late to party, but as others have commented, Wizards have printed some cards that don't mix well with Awesome, that's awesome.
Lost Legacy might grow some legs and see play, it is a turn faster than Slaughter Games, easier to cast, but not as versatile.
The real star however, is Kambal. Definitely has a place in the Deadguy and Team Italia (whu?) I love it, #banbrainstorm. It pseudo-protects itself, like a version of eidolon of the great revel, but one-sided, that obviously can't be played in multiples*.
So I'm a delussional TI player, which means I've converted to something else in order to enjoy magic still. Kambal fits the spot I've stuggled to fill with Mirran Crusader, Hero of Bladehold, Elspeth (the good one), and who knows what else. Sure he dies to bolt and AD, would've loved a 1/4 body, but he does work and helps to slow down non-elves combo.
Kudo's magic. Prized Amalgam, and now Kambal, some cards worth getting out of bed for.
Scott
09-09-2016, 01:07 AM
We're getting some wacky cool cards (and even a fair few that aren't creature-centric), even if they won't all be Legacy cards.
http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/avatars/127/180/636089761875407611.png
Echelon
09-09-2016, 01:15 AM
It says "4 mana: over the next 3 turns, you draw 3 cards, your maximum handsize is reduced to 1 for the rest of the game and you lose 1 life whenever you discard a card".
It worse than Harmonize...
MaximumC
09-09-2016, 01:18 AM
We're getting some wacky cool cards (and even a fair few that aren't creature-centric), even if they won't all be Legacy cards.
http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/avatars/127/180/636089761875407611.png
Normally, you need to interact with a second person to get a sexually transmitted disease. With this card, you can give yourself herpes. Impressive.
Scott
09-09-2016, 01:20 AM
Hey, it's fun.
Lava Snacks
09-09-2016, 01:30 AM
It says "4 mana: over the next 3 turns, you draw 3 cards, your maximum handsize is reduced to 1 for the rest of the game and you lose 1 life whenever you discard a card".
It worse than Harmonize...
Why only over the next 3 turns?
Echelon
09-09-2016, 01:34 AM
Why only over the next 3 turns?
B/c it's a hassle to get more time counters on it.
Dice_Box
09-09-2016, 01:48 AM
"Hi, I have this cute cat here, she is burning some midnight oil and wishes to show you how."
Lava Snacks
09-09-2016, 01:54 AM
B/c it's a hassle to get more time counters on it.
But don't you draw the extra card anyway?
Echelon
09-09-2016, 02:15 AM
I'm not sure. The removing of time counters isn't a cost, so you might be right. Anyways - that would mean that after 3 turns you've drawn as many cards as you would have had you cast Harmonize and after that you draw some more at the cost of having a maximum hand size of 0 or 1 and getting pinged when you have to discard. Still not that great.
Lemnear
09-09-2016, 03:12 AM
We're getting some wacky cool cards (and even a fair few that aren't creature-centric), even if they won't all be Legacy cards.
http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/avatars/127/180/636089761875407611.png
Black gets the shaft again. Seriously, if they tried to explore discard and other typical black mechanics like they do with white hatebears, the color wouldn't be so bad and limited to overcosted Demons and creature removal.
This card is garbage and literally worse than Phyrexian Arena in every damn aspect. No idea why they print a more expensive Arena with the downside of reducing your maximum hand size in addition instead of balancing one against each other. Maybe the card was reasonable for 2 mana with the current wording, but 4 is a joke
Edit:
@Scott
Yeah, if these cards were creatures, they wouldn't be THAT bad designed/costed like the junk they actually print. 3cc sorcery black Extraction effect vs. Sanctum Prelate? Where is the balance in this fucking game?
Where is the balance in this fucking game?
Banned.
http://magiccards.info/scans/en/be/188.jpg
LOL.
But, yes, I agree with you. No real balance.
Darkenslight
09-09-2016, 04:04 AM
I'm not sure. The removing of time counters isn't a cost, so you might be right. Anyways - that would mean that after 3 turns you've drawn as many cards as you would have had you cast Harmonize and after that you draw some more at the cost of having a maximum hand size of 0 or 1 and getting pinged when you have to discard. Still not that great.
You still draw the extra card, because it's not dependent upon the removal of the time counters. See, for example, the templating on Bronze Bombshell and Dark Depths for examples when the abilitiy is contingent upon the first part.
EDIT: Lemnear, SAnctum Prelate is in a supplemental set where Wizards can metaphorically cut loose, as those cards will [i]never be in Standard or Modern withoput a damned good reason.
Lemnear
09-09-2016, 05:29 AM
EDIT: Lemnear, SAnctum Prelate is in a supplemental set where Wizards can metaphorically cut loose, as those cards will [i]never be in Standard or Modern withoput a damned good reason.
Yeah, they totally "cut lose" in terms of black cards in Conspiracy 2 with their Evergreen powerhouses Archdrmon of Paliano and Capital Punishment compared to Recruiter & Prelate
Yeah, they totally "cut lose" in terms of black cards in Conspiracy 2 with their Evergreen powerhouses Archdrmon of Paliano and Capital Punishment compared to Recruiter & Prelate
#BlackMythicsMatter #BlackRaresMatter
Post Deathrite and Abrupt Decay there hasn't been much given to Black from an Eternal point of view. Why this is, iterestingly enough, when Black was good in Standard, it was with Pack Rat, Underworld Connections and Grey Merchant, which are certainly not Eternal powerhouses.
http://i.imgur.com/aRMLybJ.jpg
More Energy generators.
HdH_Cthulhu
09-09-2016, 08:18 AM
We're getting some wacky cool cards (and even a fair few that aren't creature-centric), even if they won't all be Legacy cards.
http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/avatars/127/180/636089761875407611.png
Im late but...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ejorQVy3m8E
Phyrexian Arena all day long. Midnight Oil should cost :b::b:
Zombie
09-09-2016, 08:38 AM
This set has a ton of fun cards ^^
Maybe won't give much to Eternal, but the card designs look fun.
rufus
09-09-2016, 08:51 AM
Dubious Challenge
3 G
Sorecy
Look at the top ten cards of your library. Exile up to two creatures cards from among them and then shuffle your library. Target opponent may choose one of the exiled cards and put into the battlefield under his or her control. Put the rest onto the battlefield under your control.
Some obvious ways to get paid on this are Clone+X (e.g. Craterhoof Behemoth or Primeval Titan), Flickerwisp+X, tribal silliness like slivers, and cute stuff like Bronze Bombshell.
Dice_Box
09-09-2016, 09:07 AM
Im late but...
If your going to pick an Oils song, at least make it a good one. Like Truganini or Blue Sky Mine...
HdH_Cthulhu
09-09-2016, 09:28 AM
Why? The card is also not very good.
LegacyIsAnEternalFormat
09-09-2016, 09:30 AM
Yeah, they totally "cut lose" in terms of black cards in Conspiracy 2 with their Evergreen powerhouses Archdrmon of Paliano and Capital Punishment compared to Recruiter & Prelate
I don't get why people complain about this so much... Creatures are more fun in my opinion and apparently in the opinions of the majority of Magic players. Creatures can attack and block, spells can't.
Dice_Box
09-09-2016, 09:42 AM
Not everyone plays that way. Me personally, I could care less about creatures, I want more Stax and Lands cards. To each their own.
BenBleiweiss
09-09-2016, 09:54 AM
So I haven't seen this discussed yet in this thread:
http://i.imgur.com/qSuSCgr.png
From Reddit:
For those who can't see it, here's the combo:
Have those three in play.
Target Saheeli with Liquimetal Coating.
Use Saheeli's -2 on herself.
Keep the copy.
Repeat steps 3 and 4 until your opponent gets decked out.
Disciple of the Vault is the alternate kill card here, in case your opponent can't be decked (Emrakul, etc).
Given how cheap this combo is, is there a Legacy shell here?
Lemnear
09-09-2016, 09:58 AM
So I haven't seen this discussed yet in this thread:
http://i.imgur.com/qSuSCgr.png
From Reddit:
Disciple of the Vault is the alternate kill card here, in case your opponent can't be decked (Emrakul, etc).
Given how cheap this combo is, is there a Legacy shell here?
Too easy to disrupt. Any Lightning Bolt gets in between
Given how cheap this combo is, is there a Legacy shell here?
It's cute, you can probably win some games with it, but I really doubt a three card combo is really all that viable.
Not to mention there are plenty of common main and sideboard cards that just ruin this, from Pithing Needle, Phyrexian Revoker, Abrupt Decay, Krosan Grip, etc...
Dice_Box
09-09-2016, 09:59 AM
Why do that over something like Painter Stone? Three card combos, even cheap ones, normally see less traction than two card combos.
Why do that over something like Painter Stone? Three card combos, even cheap ones, normally see less traction than two card combos.
Yeah, not to mention none of those things is really good on it's own, besides the 'Walker.
joven
09-09-2016, 10:05 AM
Kambal is strong because he is _not_ symmetrical and taxes the opponent even if he doesn't try to storm combo. Searching removal against him by using cantrips isn't pleasant.
Question is if he is playable from the casting cost and colors standpoint.
D&T probably doesn't need him, after Prelate and stuff.
Navsi
09-09-2016, 10:14 AM
Kambal not dying to Massacre is probably his biggest plus side over most of the other hatebear options. New recruiter doesn't find him though.
BenBleiweiss
09-09-2016, 10:15 AM
Why do that over something like Painter Stone? Three card combos, even cheap ones, normally see less traction than two card combos.
The only reason is because there was a lot of talk about the use of Liquimetal Coating in Legacy back when it was spoiled (for instance, as land destruction with Gorilla Shaman). It never gained traction, but I could see it being used in the same way that Painter's Servant can use Elemental Blasts to tip the game as an aside to the main plan.
Poron
09-09-2016, 10:17 AM
no 3 card combo will ever make sense in a world where you can Exhume/SnT Griselbrand
Yeah, not to mention none of those things is really good on it's own, besides the 'Walker.
If you're running a full set of the coating I think you can get away with playing 4 Dack Fayden?
Dice_Box
09-09-2016, 10:23 AM
The only reason is because there was a lot of talk about the use of Liquimetal Coating in Legacy back when it was spoiled (for instance, as land destruction with Gorilla Shaman). It never gained traction, but I could see it being used in the same way that Painter's Servant can use Elemental Blasts to tip the game as an aside to the main plan.
If you can find a way to slot in that third card, I could see something like this working. I see the deck working in a Grixis shell with Tez and Daretti. Add Welder and you could have some fun. I am just not sure if the secondary advantage of Land disruption is enough though.
Not to knock it, I love the idea, it's just if your not playing a control role you need to be playing a tempo role to make LD effective. I guess you could go down to the control route, using things like Bridge, Opal and Thopter Sword. But then it becomes about getting all the moving parts to line up, an issue the current builds of Tez have yet to get right.
That said, it sounds fun if made to work.
Edit:
DACK.... Ohhh.
DACK.... Ohhh.
Best I can come up with is:
4 brainstorm
4 ponder
4 fow
4 daze
4 bolt
4 snap caster
4 Saheeli Rai
4 Dack Fayden
4 Liquimetal Coating
4 Altar of the Brood
20 Lands
----
Probably just better to run Delver at that point though? I think you need something to search up the combos. . . maybe Reshape?
http://media.wizards.com/2016/bVvMNuiu2i_KLD/en_7imxJLicMd.png
I think this card could be pretty interesting.
Zombie
09-09-2016, 10:39 AM
Disciple should be the better piece here if we're not using an ETutor package? Hits people, chumps, can carry equipment and if the Gorilla Shaman+Liquimetal fun is done, pings people for that.
Coating+Ancient Grudge sounds fun too.
MaximumC
09-09-2016, 10:45 AM
http://media.wizards.com/2016/bVvMNuiu2i_KLD/en_7imxJLicMd.png
I think this card could be pretty interesting.
I'm not sold on any of the CARS yet, but there's an element to them where they are basically equipment with zero equip cost. That's interesting, and perhaps makes them marginally better than equipment in decks with small creatures. They're narrow, though, in the sense that running CAAAAARRRSSS requires you to run creatures in that sweet spot where they reliably can drive the CAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRR but not so big that they get smaller when they do (Clown Car style).
CAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRS
Best I can come up with is:
4 brainstorm
4 ponder
4 fow
4 daze
4 bolt
4 snap caster
4 Saheeli Rai
4 Dack Fayden
4 Liquimetal Coating
4 Altar of the Brood
20 Lands
----
Probably just better to run Delver at that point though? I think you need something to search up the combos. . . maybe Reshape?
Pheh.
When Liquidmetal Coating first came out, I paired it up with Gorilla Shaman in Vintage. It was funny as hell when it got going. Nuking lands for free, killing weenies for a small down payment. Still, Mox Monkey is better played in a format with Moxes.
Disciple should be the better piece here if we're not using an ETutor package? Hits people, chumps, can carry equipment and if the Gorilla Shaman+Liquimetal fun is done, pings people for that.
Coating+Ancient Grudge sounds fun too.
Right on.
MaximumC
09-09-2016, 10:49 AM
http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/avatars/thumbnails/127/187/200/283/636090104305077561.png
I don't hate this card. It's not flashy or anything, but it's got a remarkably powerful enters-the-battlefield effect. Blinking this lady is such amazing value, I expect it to start being an EDH staple. Could even see play in weirdo decks like Aethermage's Touch or some nonsense.
rufus
09-09-2016, 10:51 AM
I'm not sold on any of the CARS yet, but there's an element to them where they are basically equipment with zero equip cost. That's interesting, and perhaps makes them marginally better than equipment in decks with small creatures. ...
That's fine, but it seems like the vehicles that have been spoiled so far aren't that much better than creatures with similar casting cost.
MaximumC
09-09-2016, 10:54 AM
That's fine, but it seems like the vehicles that have been spoiled so far aren't that much better than creatures with similar casting cost.
Yeah, but that's the same problem with equipment, right? I mean, only the broken ones see play there, so the comparison might well just prove CAARRRS are bad anyway.
CptHaddock
09-09-2016, 11:04 AM
Disciple of the Vault is the alternate kill card here, in case your opponent can't be decked (Emrakul, etc).
Given how cheap this combo is, is there a Legacy shell here?
That's boring, you could always play Leonin Elder and aetherflux and go for the hadouken to the face.
BenBleiweiss
09-09-2016, 11:11 AM
http://s3.gatheringmagic.com/uploads/2016/09/09/AU_1.png
Let's get there fellahs!
rufus
09-09-2016, 11:12 AM
Yeah, but that's the same problem with equipment, right? I mean, only the broken ones see play there, so the comparison might well just prove CAARRRS are bad anyway.
Yep. Similarly we only see broken-level auras.
MaximumC
09-09-2016, 11:17 AM
http://s3.gatheringmagic.com/uploads/2016/09/09/AU_1.png
Let's get there fellahs!
Because otherwise, how can you kill Juggernaut?
http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=407646&type=card
In all seriousness, 3 to 4 is pretty big game because it hits Lodestone Golem. That's a critical target for cheap artifact removal.
Darkenslight
09-09-2016, 11:18 AM
http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/avatars/thumbnails/127/187/200/283/636090104305077561.png
I don't hate this card. It's not flashy or anything, but it's got a remarkably powerful enters-the-battlefield effect. Blinking this lady is such amazing value, I expect it to start being an EDH staple. Could even see play in weirdo decks like Aethermage's Touch or some nonsense.
Welp, time to get a foil one for my Ojutai and his Horde in the Skies deck.
That is insane. Moreover, it's blinkable with Resto Angel.
Poron
09-09-2016, 11:19 AM
http://s3.gatheringmagic.com/uploads/2016/09/09/AU_1.png
Let's get there fellahs!
it's a Sorcery.
Disenchant is still better
MaximumC
09-09-2016, 11:20 AM
it's a Sorcery.
Disenchant is still better
I think you mean Nature's Claim.
BenBleiweiss
09-09-2016, 11:22 AM
it's a Sorcery.
Disenchant is still better
Not saying it's fantastic, but there are times when one mana this versus two mana Disenchant is a huge difference (Hatebears.dec)
Ace/Homebrew
09-09-2016, 11:41 AM
http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/avatars/127/180/636089761875407611.png
I'm late but...
Maybe this makes Harmless Offering playable in Standard?
rufus
09-09-2016, 11:48 AM
Maybe this makes Harmless Offering playable in Standard?
Just think of it as a madness enabler. :wink:
HdH_Cthulhu
09-09-2016, 11:54 AM
Is this spoiler graphic real or do the fix the last sentence where "discard" overlaps with the trademark?
Is this spoiler graphic real or do the fix the last sentence where "discard" overlaps with the trademark?
It's a mockup, the spoiled card was in a different language. Look at the hologram at the bottom.
joven
09-09-2016, 12:04 PM
http://media.wizards.com/2016/bVvMNuiu2i_KLD/en_7imxJLicMd.png
I think this card could be pretty interesting.
So, Dark Confidant has a helicopter now. Cool but futuristic flavor.
I still have this strong Landspeeder feeling when I see those new vehicles in MTG. Anybody played the old Starwars TCG back in the days?
http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/avatars/thumbnails/127/187/200/283/636090104305077561.png
I don't hate this card. It's not flashy or anything, but it's got a remarkably powerful enters-the-battlefield effect. Blinking this lady is such amazing value, I expect it to start being an EDH staple. Could even see play in weirdo decks like Aethermage's Touch or some nonsense.
It's a second Mulldrifter (without the Evoke ability). That's what it is!
http://s3.gatheringmagic.com/uploads/2016/09/09/AU_1.png
Let's get there fellahs!
Fragmentize will certainly find a home. I tend to want all white sorcery speed stuff to either be a creature or an enchantment though because of Enlightened Tutor. Seal of Cleansing is still very good. I still like it. White is supposed to play second fiddle to green with this stuff these days.
MaximumC
09-09-2016, 01:48 PM
So, Dark Confidant
It's a second Mulldrifter (without the Evoke ability). That's what it is!
I can't decipher your meaning, but to me, that's a good thing.
HdH_Cthulhu
09-09-2016, 02:25 PM
Boarding cars with utility creatures(confidant/hatebears) that dont want to fight seems like a good plan. But we would need something busted for legacy like a batterskull with crew 2 not a Juggernaut or a looter...
bruizar
09-09-2016, 02:59 PM
Boarding cars with utility creatures(confidant/hatebears) that dont want to fight seems like a good plan. But we would need something busted for legacy like a batterskull with crew 2 not a Juggernaut or a looter...
I think the looter is legit. Being able to fly over for 3 and optimizing your hand is okay for that cost. Vehicle is one of those notoriously new and hard to evaluate mechanics. It could well be shit, but it has my attention. It also loots on defense which is interesting.
Disciple should be the better piece here if we're not using an ETutor package?.
Forgot about Eternal Tutor. . .
Maybe something like:
4 SFM
4 Eternal Tutor
4 STP
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Force of Will
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Liquimetal coating
3 Dack Fayden
2 Sahelli Rai
1 Altar of the Brood
1 Jitte
1 Batterskull
20 Lands
Pretty generic URW deck, except can either get a combo win out of nowhere, or assemble a "steal a perm" engine starting turn 3. Still probably too fragile compared to everything else, but it seems funish
CptHaddock
09-09-2016, 03:28 PM
Forgot about Eternal Tutor. . .
-snip-
I think that the UR painter shell might be a better starting point. Are there any cards out there that can make cards in graveyards artifacts? I can't seem to think of any otherwise intuition with welder would be :eek:
Combo:
4 Saheeli Rai
4 Liquid Metal Coating
3 Altar of the Brood
Backup Plan:
1 Tezzeret the Seeker
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
Value:
1 Ratchet Bomb/Engineered Explosives
1 Spellskite
3 Goblin Welder
2 Dack Fayden
2 Ensnaring Bridge
3 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
3 Mox Opal
2 Ponder
2 Transmute Artifact
Lands:
2 Great Furnace
2 Seat of the Synod
2 Island
3 Ancient Tomb
1 City of Traitors
1 Flooded Strand
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Volcanic Island
1 Academy Ruins
bruizar
09-09-2016, 03:57 PM
Saheeli Rai looks Tibalt-bad. What's with the hype? The + ability is too slow to hope for ult. Lightning bolt = triple time walk.
There is no hype - it's just a fun little combo that we're messing around with, especially since one of the cards of that combo synergizes well with another 3 mana walker with "awesome" tm.
bruizar
09-09-2016, 04:17 PM
There is no hype - it's just a fun little combo that we're messing around with, especially since one of the cards of that combo synergizes well with another 3 mana walker with "awesome" tm.
Ah ok. I was afraid I was overlooking something.
MaximumC
09-09-2016, 04:43 PM
Saheeli Rai looks Tibalt-bad. What's with the hype? The + ability is too slow to hope for ult. Lightning bolt = triple time walk.
Whoa whoa whoa whoa
Saheeli is "not great." Tibalt is "demonstrably terrible." There's a pretty big gulf there.
HdH_Cthulhu
09-09-2016, 05:21 PM
Yah dude! Shes a 3 mana clone with upside. Ok thats probably bad in legacy but pretty good in other formats.
joven
09-09-2016, 05:44 PM
I guess Saheeli wants a very specific artifact combo deck. In a vacuum she does nothing besides Scry 1 and Ping, which isn't bad, but is just not competitive level.
Lemnear
09-09-2016, 05:44 PM
Yah dude! Shes a 3 mana clone with upside. Ok thats probably bad in legacy but pretty good in other formats.
Whoa, bro! Creating/copying artifacts/creatures can be ridiculous powerful. You just need to pair her with Dack, Goblin Welder and Strategic Planning to get a powerful shell.
bruizar
09-09-2016, 06:08 PM
Whoa, bro! Creating/copying artifacts/creatures can be ridiculous powerful. You just need to pair her with Dack, Goblin Welder and Strategic Planning to get a powerful shell.
Whatever happened to Strategic Planning anyway?
Whatever happened to Strategic Planning anyway?
It's now a 25c card.
Lemnear
09-09-2016, 06:29 PM
Whatever happened to Strategic Planning anyway?
Got reprinted and the price bubble of 100+$ popped
Poron
09-10-2016, 10:47 AM
Yah dude! Shes a 3 mana clone with upside. Ok thats probably bad in legacy but pretty good in other formats.
Clone? the token dies at the end of the turn and you can only copy your permanents...
BTW: let's start the discussion what are the three best artifacts to fetch with her ultimate?
I'd say
Blightsteel Colossus
Lightning Greaves
Proweler's Helm
Your just need (2) and 11 Poison counters will seal the deal
MaximumC
09-10-2016, 11:21 AM
Clone? the token dies at the end of the turn and you can only copy your permanents...
BTW: let's start the discussion what are the three best artifacts to fetch with her ultimate?
I'd say
Blightsteel Colossus
Lightning Greaves
Proweler's Helm
Your just need (2) and 11 Poison counters will seal the deal
Time vault, voltaic key, sol ring
Metal worker, staff of domination, memory jar
Grindstone, painters servant, grim monolith
Etc etc
apple713
09-11-2016, 06:54 PM
Dubious Challenge
http://www.montasycomics.com/uploads/1/0/1/8/10180782/11_25_orig.jpg
Can someone explain this? Something doesn't seem right.
Look at the top 10 cards of your library and exile up to 2 creature cards.
Opponent gets 1 of the exiled cards
Your get the rest of the exiled cards...which is going to be 1 or 0. and the one you get is always going to be worse since opponent gets first pick...
OR
Your opponent gets 1 of the exiled creatures and you get the rest of the creatures in the top 10?
ahg113
09-11-2016, 07:05 PM
Dubious Challenge
http://www.montasycomics.com/uploads/1/0/1/8/10180782/11_25_orig.jpg
Can someone explain this? Something doesn't seem right.
Look at the top 10 cards of your library and exile up to 2 creature cards.
Opponent gets 1 of the exiled cards
Your get the rest of the exiled cards...which is going to be 1 or 0. and the one you get is always going to be worse since opponent gets first pick...
OR
Your opponent gets 1 of the exiled creatures and you get the rest of the creatures in the top 10?
Cast, look at the top 10 cards of your library. Of those 10 cards, find up to two creatures and exile them. Shuffle your deck (the other 8 cards are in there "somewhere"). Your opponent has first pick to take one of the exiled creatures, but they don't have to. You get the remaining creature of the two.
Barook
09-11-2016, 07:15 PM
Unless you have some kind of Flicker effect/creature ready to bring your own creature back, it's really bad.
I guess Homeward Path also works.
Aggro_zombies
09-11-2016, 07:45 PM
Unless you have some kind of Flicker effect/creature ready to bring your own creature back, it's really bad.
It is at least aptly named.
But in all seriousness, it seems like an apology for Collected Company, a card that's been a serious contender for best card in Standard for almost its whole lifetime.
apple713
09-11-2016, 08:03 PM
Cast, look at the top 10 cards of your library. Of those 10 cards, find up to two creatures and exile them. Shuffle your deck (the other 8 cards are in there "somewhere"). Your opponent has first pick to take one of the exiled creatures, but they don't have to. You get the remaining creature of the two.
ok i guess i did know how it was played but was just in shock at how incredibly terrible it is.
HdH_Cthulhu
09-11-2016, 09:06 PM
Just reveal 2 phage -.-
Nah im sure there are some cool things to pull off with this, nothing competitive but yah why not...
Creatures with phasing etc. Well its just a sorcery so nah forget it its terrible!
Thats exactly one of this cards I gonna have in my seeded pack @ the pre release!
apple713
09-11-2016, 09:32 PM
Just reveal 2 phage -.-
Nah im sure there are some cool things to pull off with this, nothing competitive but yah why not...
Creatures with phasing etc. Well its just a sorcery so nah forget it its terrible!
Thats exactly one of this cards I gonna have in my seeded pack @ the pre release!
like you can't even have 2 phage because the opponent "may" put one into play. I really wanna know who at wizards thought it would be a good idea to print this card. Are they just running out of ideas over there? Maybe ~20 years is about the time when good ideas run out?
I mean - it's been mentioned, but it seems like an alright combo with Homeward Path - that would have been decent in modern, but too bad it's not legal there. In legacy its . . . basically another 5 mana "win the turn after" combo that requires around 12 chaff cards. . . . Maybe a list with 12 big guys and S&T? (yeah i know it's garbage)
Edit: in Modern - maybe combine it with Gruul Charm or Tel-Jilad Stylus ?
Aggro_zombies
09-12-2016, 01:15 AM
The problem with this plan is that Collected Company is legal and a generally better card.
If your goal is to put Emrakuls or something into play with it, then SnT is a superior alternative in Legacy and Summoning Trap seems like a superior alternative in Modern.
Ace/Homebrew
09-12-2016, 02:06 AM
How many creatures would this have to reveal to break the symmetry? In decks like Goblins in Legacy, or Allies in Modern, more than half the deck can be creatures... And usually all of them are pretty harmless by themselves but present a bigger problem in large numbers.
So how many would it have to be? Six? Opponent gets 1 and you get 5?
Would it be worth it if it revealed 5 creatures?
Edit
What if one of the revealed creatures is Stingscourger? Then your opponent has to take the Scourger and pay echo so you 'draw' a creature instead, or the creature they do choose gets bounced back to your hand.
HdH_Cthulhu
09-12-2016, 03:22 AM
How many creatures would this have to reveal to break the symmetry? In decks like Goblins in Legacy, or Allies in Modern, more than half the deck can be creatures... And usually all of them are pretty harmless by themselves but present a bigger problem in large numbers.
So how many would it have to be? Six? Opponent gets 1 and you get 5?
Would it be worth it if it revealed 5 creatures?
Edit
What if one of the revealed creatures is Stingscourger? Then your opponent has to take the Scourger and pay echo so you 'draw' a creature instead, or the creature they do choose gets bounced back to your hand.
Well nice hypothetical thinking... At that point it kinda wouldn't matter how much. 10 or 5 you can just play that many creatures.
Another question what would be the best to grab?Brooding Saurian ? This + homeward path might be enogh to reliably get your stuff back?
Darkenslight
09-12-2016, 05:48 AM
Dubious Challenge
http://www.montasycomics.com/uploads/1/0/1/8/10180782/11_25_orig.jpg
Can someone explain this? Something doesn't seem right.
Look at the top 10 cards of your library and exile up to 2 creature cards.
Opponent gets 1 of the exiled cards
Your get the rest of the exiled cards...which is going to be 1 or 0. and the one you get is always going to be worse since opponent gets first pick...
OR
Your opponent gets 1 of the exiled creatures and you get the rest of the creatures in the top 10?
This is one of those cards where I want to wait for the actual FAQ to come out for, before I judge it. The key is in that final clause. Does it apply to the whole thing, or just the exiled cards? Also, I kind of wish this wasn't optional for the opponent.
Echelon
09-12-2016, 06:04 AM
Step 1: Look at the top 10 cards of your library. Those cards aren't going anywhere, you're just looking at them.
Step 2: Exile 0, 1 or 2 creature cards from those 10 cards. The other cards you looked at but didn't exile are still on the top of your library.
Step 3: Shuffle your library. The cards you didn't exile are now shuffled into your library.
Step 4: An opponent picks 0 or 1 of those exiled cards and puts it on the battlefield under his/her control.
Step 5: You get whatever you exiled that your opponent did not pick, i.e. the other 0, 1 or 2 creature cards.
Do we really need a FAQ for this? A RTFC should suffice. Let it sink in for a moment, chop it up into smaller chunks, let it sink in again.
Poron
09-12-2016, 09:05 AM
If it was not the first 10 cards but the whole deck it could have been a good combo with Boseiju, Emrakul Terastodon and Homeward Path, Crop Rotation, Loam, Gamble
It would have been just lands + that card perfect for a combo land shell
HdH_Cthulhu
09-12-2016, 09:06 AM
If it was not the first 10 cards but the whole deck it could have been a good combo with Boseiju, Emrakul Terastodon and Homeward Path, Crop Rotation, Loam, Gamble
It would have been just lands + that card perfect for a combo land shell
I dont get it.
http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/avatars/thumbnails/127/241/200/283/636092636462476481.png
Basically a 3/2 for W?
HdH_Cthulhu
09-12-2016, 09:40 AM
http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/avatars/thumbnails/127/241/200/283/636092636462476481.png
Basically a 3/2 for W?
Its about time!
rufus
09-12-2016, 09:58 AM
It does seem like they're throttling back on the superfluous ability words this set, which is an improvement IMO. They could easily have hung a lampshade on a large part of the artifacts matter theme by calling all the abilities out with a label like 'metalcount'.
Sylphnir
09-12-2016, 10:22 AM
The last one:
http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/attachments/158/477/636092680272282915.png
Combustible Gearhulk :4::r::r:
Artifact Creature - Construct (Mythic Rare)
First Strike
When Cumbustible Gearhulk enters the battlefield, target opponent may have you draw 3 cards.
If the player doesn't, put the top three cards of your library unto your graveyard,
then Combustible Gearhulk deals damage to that player equal to the total converted mana cost of those cards.
6/6
Lemnear
09-12-2016, 10:23 AM
http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/avatars/thumbnails/127/241/200/283/636092636462476481.png
Basically a 3/2 for W?
3/2 if you control Aether Vial and if you find shit like Sword of Fire & Ice or Jitte in addition, he even gets FirstStrike. WotC, please....
bruizar
09-12-2016, 10:25 AM
3/2 if you control Aether Vial and if you find shit like Sword of Fire & Ice or Jitte in addition, he even gets FirstStrike. WotC, please....
UWR delver in 3, 2, 1..
UWR delver in 3, 2, 1..
Man. . . what would be the requirements of that build to have at least 1 artifact by turn 2, maybe 3 artifacts by turn 3-4 and still have enough spells to flip delver consistently :eek:
Lemnear
09-12-2016, 10:47 AM
Man. . . what would be the requirements of that build to have at least 1 artifact by turn 2, maybe 3 artifacts by turn 3-4 and still have enough spells to flip delver consistently :eek:
If any deck would want to run this its D+T, Affinity or Vintage Mentor
Ace/Homebrew
09-12-2016, 10:48 AM
http://i.imgur.com/Y9RKPmf.png
Hmmmm... Kaladesh Inventions :eyebrow:
http://i.imgur.com/0I36IFX.png
I guess 'flavor-wise' these are the inventions appearing at the fair...
CptHaddock
09-12-2016, 10:48 AM
Looks like expeditions (http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/making-magic/masterpiece-series-2016-09-12)are going to start becoming a consistent thing in future sets.
http://media.wizards.com/2016/bVvMNuiu2i_KLD/en_y8smQPJEaH.png
If any deck would want to run this its D+T, Affinity or Vintage Mentor
I could see D&T, maybe, but certainly not Delver, way too much tension between enough Artifacts and enough Instants/Sorceries. I don't think Mentor would want this in Vintage, even at it's best a 3/2 First Strike isn't really all that great...
Thinking more on it though, I don't see how you fit it in to D&T without cutting a 2 drop and those are the bread and butter of the deck.
Davran
09-12-2016, 10:57 AM
Looks like expeditions (http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/making-magic/masterpiece-series-2016-09-12)are going to start becoming a consistent thing in future sets.
Let me be the first to say ugh. Neat idea for people who are into that sort of thing, but it ultimately feels like a blatant cash grab that still does actual nothing for eternal formats.
MaximumC
09-12-2016, 10:59 AM
Looks like expeditions (http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/making-magic/masterpiece-series-2016-09-12)are going to start becoming a consistent thing in future sets.
http://media.wizards.com/2016/bVvMNuiu2i_KLD/en_y8smQPJEaH.png
WIzard is finally tapping the full art alter market.
I know it's a cash grab, but that art is SUPERB. These artifacts are gorgeous. Kudos to Wizards!
bruizar
09-12-2016, 11:00 AM
Let me be the first to say ugh. Neat idea for people who are into that sort of thing, but it ultimately feels like a blatant cash grab that still does actual nothing for eternal formats.
I already love them. 54 to collect.
supremePINEAPPLE
09-12-2016, 11:05 AM
Can't wait to see what the coppery foiling process looks like in person. It'll be nice to have a constant stream of powerful cards in blocks even if they are at super-mythic rarity. Things like port, liliana, and jace are all great options to have and not being redeemable is good for MTGO, bfz expeditions aren't much more expensive than the cheap versions online.
Free value propositions are free value propositions.
Dat Mana Crypt doe, I don't want to like it but I like it...
rufus
09-12-2016, 11:16 AM
Man. . . what would be the requirements of that build to have at least 1 artifact by turn 2, maybe 3 artifacts by turn 3-4 and still have enough spells to flip delver consistently :eek:
Obviously there's only going to be probability, and it's complicated if you want to account for mulligans, but the target artifact count is relatively low for a good chance of 1 artifact by turn 2. (14 for ~80%, 18 for ~90%, 20 for ~95%). Hitting 3 is much harder.
You can also look at having the artifacts do double duty as mana sources, or pile in with trinkets, but I'm not sure either of those is ideal for delver style tempo game plans.
On a somewhat different topic: Giving opponents a choice is bad, but is red gearhulk playable in 'big red' decks?
Dice_Box
09-12-2016, 11:17 AM
http://i.imgur.com/0I36IFX.png
Where, other than Shops, does this guy see any play? I do not know what makes him worthy of such treatment.
Lemnear
09-12-2016, 11:18 AM
Looks like expeditions (http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/making-magic/masterpiece-series-2016-09-12)are going to start becoming a consistent thing in future sets.
http://media.wizards.com/2016/bVvMNuiu2i_KLD/en_y8smQPJEaH.png
I am unsure if I saw something more beautiful in the last 8 years of MTG.
Darkenslight
09-12-2016, 11:27 AM
Where, other than Shops, does this guy see any play? I do not know what makes him worthy of such treatment.
He sees slight play in Modern and Vintage, and saw considerable play in standard. Now, if he's actually a reprint in Kaladesh, then that would be an amazing thing to see. But from the number crunching, i don't think it is.
I am unsure if I saw something more beautiful in the last 8 years of MTG.
That looks like it's gonna be a stunning piece of work if the foiling is similar to the BfZ Expeditions.
jmlima
09-12-2016, 11:29 AM
I am unsure if I saw something more beautiful in the last 8 years of MTG.
Looks like it could be the entrance to Barry Zito's toilet to remind of the money he sponged off the Giants.
I guess we'll find out how high the prices on things like this are in a sustainability sense, since we will see them every set.
square_two
09-12-2016, 11:32 AM
I am unsure if I saw something more beautiful in the last 8 years of MTG.
"One caveat before I show you the cards: the Masterpiece Series: Kaldesh Inventions have a cool printing process that's impossible to reflect on a computer screen, so while what I'm going to show you is going to look cool, it's going to look even cooler in person. Just remember that the copper coloring is all metallic on the actual cards."
It'll look even better in person.
rufus
09-12-2016, 11:34 AM
...
It'll look even better in person.
And even worse in coverage.
Ace/Homebrew
09-12-2016, 11:36 AM
Where, other than Shops, does this guy see any play? I do not know what makes him worthy of such treatment.
Where, in any format, does Kor Haven see play?
http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=409572&type=card
Besides EDH...
supremePINEAPPLE
09-12-2016, 11:38 AM
Where, other than Shops, does this guy see any play? I do not know what makes him worthy of such treatment.They are including a random rare from the set too, it looks like there are consistently going to be duds like the bfz duals were for the original expeditions.
MD.Ghost
09-12-2016, 11:40 AM
Lets wait for Vial, Jitte, Petal, LED and Skull etc. :eek: nice Artworks for M. Crypt and H. Walker
@"White Delver" not good enough yet, but White Artifact Land and this guy and you have a 3/2 Turn 1 ;)
Ace/Homebrew
09-12-2016, 11:42 AM
They are including a random rare from the set too, it looks like there are consistently going to be duds like the bfz duals were for the original expeditions.
Assuming you are referring to the gearhulk...
http://i.imgur.com/LcQ4GYg.png
it's inclusion is far from random.
The entire cycle of gearhulks will get the Expedition treatment.
I am glad they at least stopped trying to refer to the 'transparent text box' as 'full art'.
bruizar
09-12-2016, 11:51 AM
This set is unbelievably good. The entire set is full of juice. My expectation is that this set will transform every format for the next years. It wil keep 'giving' competitive cards as the years go by.
Richard Cheese
09-12-2016, 12:00 PM
Brown borders on artifacts? Someone deserves a promotion!
bruizar
09-12-2016, 12:01 PM
http://media.wizards.com/2016/bVvMNuiu2i_KLD/en_oQZ2O7i1IF.png
http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/making-magic/masterpiece-series-2016-09-12
Starting with Kaladesh and for the foreseeable future, we're going to be adding a new feature called the Masterpiece Series. Each individual block will have its own name for the Series (the Masterpiece Series for Kaladesh block, for example, will be called Kaladesh Inventions), but it will be referred to overall as the Masterpiece Series. Basically, we're taking what we did with the Zendikar Expeditions and applying it to every set. Here's what this means:
The Masterpiece Series will exist at a rarity higher than mythic rare. For example, in Kaladesh, you will open a Kaladesh Inventions card roughly 1 out of every 144 boosters. (Technically, the Kaladesh booster pack says the ratio is 1:2,160 cards.) This is slightly more often than opening a premium mythic rare. These ratios may change for future sets.
The Masterpiece Series will be reprints of existing cards with one exception. There will often be cards from that set included in the Masterpiece Series (like how the Battle for Zendikar rare dual lands were included in Zendikar Expeditions), but they will typically exist in the set in a traditional frame in their normal rarity in addition to appearing in the Masterpiece Series. Kaladesh Inventions has a cycle of five mythic rare cards that appear in the Kaladesh set. There will never be cards appearing in a Masterpiece Series that can't be found outside of it. (I'm talking, of course, about the card itself and not the particular creative/frame treatment.)
The Masterpiece Series, both in presentation and card selection, will be tied thematically to the world appearing in the block. For instance, all of the Kaladesh Inventions will be artifact cards presented as Kaladeshi artifacts. The frame will likewise have a special treatment that ties into the theme of the block. I will be showing off some of the Kaladesh Inventions cards later in this article, so you'll get a chance to see what I'm talking about for our first Masterpiece Series. The frame treatment will be exclusive to the Masterpiece Series it appears in.
The number of Masterpiece Series cards may fluctuate, but roughly speaking we expect each Masterpiece Series to be around 50 cards for the whole block. Kaladesh Inventions, for example, will have 30 cards in Kaladesh and 24 cards in Aether Revolt. The large set and small set in a block will have different Masterpiece cards.
All Masterpiece Series cards are printed in English, but they do appear in non-English product.
The expansion symbol for each Masterpiece Series will be block-specific, but distinct from the sets in that block. For example, the Masterpiece Series cards in Kaladesh and Aether Revolt will share one unique expansion symbol—they won't use the Kaladesh or Aether Revolt symbols.
All Masterpiece cards will exist only in premium foil versions.
Masterpiece cards are planned for Magic Online, but will not be redeemable and are not counted as part of the set. They're going to be distributed in an exciting new way, but we're not quite ready to announce what that is. Look for that announcement later this month.
Masterpiece cards will not exist in Magic Duels.
Masterpiece cards can be played in any Limited format they're opened in and in any Constructed format in which the card is already legal.
jmlima
09-12-2016, 12:07 PM
... They're going to be distributed in an exciting new way, but we're not quite ready to announce what that is.....
Pick one from Chandra's garter belt for every 100usd your drop on MTGO.
GenghisTom
09-12-2016, 12:20 PM
Lets wait for Vial, Jitte, Petal, LED and Skull etc. :eek: nice Artworks for M. Crypt and H. Walker
@"White Delver" not good enough yet, but White Artifact Land and this guy and you have a 3/2 Turn 1 ;)
Unfortunately Jitte will not be in this time :
Umezawa's Jitte is a wonderful artifact, but it existing on Kaladesh doesn't make any flavor sense so it was off the table for Kaladesh Inventions
Although the other 4 are possible. Would love to see Skullclamp.
sadface
09-12-2016, 12:22 PM
Masterpiece cards can be played in any Limited format they're opened in.
Umezawa's Jitte is a wonderful artifact, but it existing on Kaladesh doesn't make any flavor sense so it was off the table for Kaladesh Inventions.
I look forward to finding a Jitte in my sealed pool at the Return to Kamigawa prerelease.
(nameless one)
09-12-2016, 12:22 PM
Brown borders on artifacts? Someone deserves a promotion!
They're not brown. They're mythic orange.
Dice_Box
09-12-2016, 12:27 PM
Pick one from Chandra's garter belt...
Sign me up!
...for every 100usd your drop on MTGO.
Um... Hold off on that.
supremePINEAPPLE
09-12-2016, 01:06 PM
Assuming you are referring to the gearhulk...
it's inclusion is far from random.
The entire cycle of gearhulks will get the Expedition treatment.Yeah random isn't the right word, I was really just pointing out that there are going to be a lot of shitty expeditions just like the gearhulk cycle so hangarback shouldn't really be too surprising.
apple713
09-12-2016, 01:16 PM
Its about time!
Yes because white needs more amazing creatures for their D&T decks....
Almost positive Aether Vial will be an invention. I mean . . . it even has Aether in its name! :laugh:
BenBleiweiss
09-12-2016, 01:48 PM
This set keeps giving!
https://d1wrjbd96vz21d.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/0059_MTGKLD_EN_HRR.png
Infect!
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CsKxu2-UEAAlPtX.png:large
Flickerable Artifact Impulse
http://nerdist.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/KLDPreview_PIC3.jpg
Ok, maybe not this guy - but who knows! I like Thopter Foundry!
Gheizen64
09-12-2016, 02:07 PM
The Red Gearhulk is interesting. It's playable in big red imho, as it essentially is a 6/6 that is hardcastable via ritual and it usually draw 3 and attack for 6 off sneak attack. It's unlikely people would ever risk losing the game against big red by making you not draw. Flipping an emrakul is lethal and even a a single big drop or a ritual + sneak attack can make this go for 12+ damage easily. It's possibly better than inferno titan, not that it would go in its place, but in the one of the godo/batterskull package.
Meekrab
09-12-2016, 02:11 PM
The Red Gearhulk is interesting. It's playable in big red imho, as it essentially is a 6/6 that is hardcastable via ritual and it usually draw 3 and attack for 6 off sneak attack. It's unlikely people would ever risk losing the game against big red by making you not draw. Flipping an emrakul is lethal and even a a single big drop or a ritual + sneak attack can make this go for 12+ damage easily. It's possibly better than inferno titan, not that it would go in its place, but in the one of the godo/batterskull package.
Can't wait to sleep up Show and Derp and cast a Brainstorm right before putting this guy in play. :D
Also that Mana Crypt. I want one.
rufus
09-12-2016, 02:14 PM
The Red Gearhulk is interesting. It's playable in big red imho...
Using Hoogland's list, expected damage on 3 into the graveyard is about 9, but the deck is half 0 cc, so you'll see a lot of kills and a lot of fizzles. The thing that's really missing for big red is that it doesn't have any kind of evasion.
Dice_Box
09-12-2016, 02:35 PM
Basic lands (http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/feature/basic-lands-kaladesh-2016-09-12) are out. Only the second Swamp looks any good imo.
(nameless one)
09-12-2016, 02:45 PM
http://nerdist.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/KLDPreview_PIC3.jpg
Ok, maybe not this guy - but who knows! I like Thopter Foundry!
Legacy Tezzerator perhaps? If you really wanna stretch it, Sword+Thopter+Counterbalance while having Chalice on one?
BenBleiweiss
09-12-2016, 02:48 PM
Basic lands (http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/feature/basic-lands-kaladesh-2016-09-12) are out. Only the second Swamp looks any good imo.
While I don't finalize our foil prices until the full set is out, these are the basics I think are going to be in highest-demand from players:
http://media.wizards.com/2016/bVvMNuiu2i_KLD/en_Bk5iqcCW2E.png Forest #262
http://media.wizards.com/2016/bVvMNuiu2i_KLD/en_k3SRcKYEMq.png Island #254
http://media.wizards.com/2016/bVvMNuiu2i_KLD/en_K2DD6SAgs0.png Plains #252
http://media.wizards.com/2016/bVvMNuiu2i_KLD/en_KXwfKLvg3x.png Swamp #257
The other eleven probably won't pull a premium value in foil.
bruizar
09-12-2016, 02:55 PM
While I don't finalize our foil prices until the full set is out, these are the basics I think are going to be in highest-demand from players:
The other eleven probably won't pull a premium value in foil.
On the topic of pricing, whats the rationale of putting in all the value towards chandra? Imo thats just making the other cards too cheap and chandra isnt jace anyway. 4 abilities but a -3 on removal kills it. I feel like this set's good cards are on sale because chandra is overpriced
BenBleiweiss
09-12-2016, 02:57 PM
On the topic of pricing, whats the rationale of putting in all the value towards chandra? Imo thats just making the other cards too cheap and chandra isnt jace anyway. 4 abilities but a -3 on removal kills it. I feel like this set's good cards are on sale because chandra is overpriced
Pricing is preorders is based on supply/demand. In my financials article, I stated I didn't think the current price is sustainable. However, we sold out at $50-$60, so what do I know?
Dice_Box
09-12-2016, 03:00 PM
Cardboard-crack did note her hidden ability was "Destroy target wallet".
Pricing is preorders is based on supply/demand. In my financials article, I stated I didn't think the current price is sustainable. However, we sold out at $50-$60, so what do I know?
Preorders are generally people with more money than good sense. Of course they "overpayed" but in reality the bought the card plus the convenience fee of having it mailed as soon as the set comes out. Pretty sure Chandra settles in to the 30 dollar range once the initial rush dies down a bit. Modern speculation will keep it from getting any lower, I think.
Lemnear
09-12-2016, 03:51 PM
The Masterpiece Series will exist at a rarity higher than mythic rare. For example, in Kaladesh, you will open a Kaladesh Inventions card roughly 1 out of every 144 boosters. (Technically, the Kaladesh booster pack says the ratio is 1:2,160 cards.) This is slightly more often than opening a premium mythic rare. These ratios may change for future sets.
The Masterpiece Series will be reprints of existing cards with one exception. There will often be cards from that set included in the Masterpiece Series (like how the Battle for Zendikar rare dual lands were included in Zendikar Expeditions), but they will typically exist in the set in a traditional frame in their normal rarity in addition to appearing in the Masterpiece Series. Kaladesh Inventions has a cycle of five mythic rare cards that appear in the Kaladesh set. There will never be cards appearing in a Masterpiece Series that can't be found outside of it. (I'm talking, of course, about the card itself and not the particular creative/frame treatment.)
The Masterpiece Series, both in presentation and card selection, will be tied thematically to the world appearing in the block. For instance, all of the Kaladesh Inventions will be artifact cards presented as Kaladeshi artifacts. The frame will likewise have a special treatment that ties into the theme of the block. I will be showing off some of the Kaladesh Inventions cards later in this article, so you'll get a chance to see what I'm talking about for our first Masterpiece Series. The frame treatment will be exclusive to the Masterpiece Series it appears in.
The number of Masterpiece Series cards may fluctuate, but roughly speaking we expect each Masterpiece Series to be around 50 cards for the whole block. Kaladesh Inventions, for example, will have 30 cards in Kaladesh and 24 cards in Aether Revolt. The large set and small set in a block will have different Masterpiece cards.
All Masterpiece Series cards are printed in English, but they do appear in non-English product.
The expansion symbol for each Masterpiece Series will be block-specific, but distinct from the sets in that block. For example, the Masterpiece Series cards in Kaladesh and Aether Revolt will share one unique expansion symbol—they won't use the Kaladesh or Aether Revolt symbols.
All Masterpiece cards will exist only in premium foil versions.
Masterpiece cards are planned for Magic Online, but will not be redeemable and are not counted as part of the set. They're going to be distributed in an exciting new way, but we're not quite ready to announce what that is. Look for that announcement later this month.
Masterpiece cards will not exist in Magic Duels.
Masterpiece cards can be played in any Limited format they're opened in and in any Constructed format in which the card is already legal.
Wait! Wait! Wait! Does this mean ONE card of the whole set is ONLY available as "Masterpiece"???
Wait! Wait! Wait! Does this mean ONE card of the whole set is ONLY available as "Masterpiece"???
No, the next sentence explains that some Masterpiece cards will be cards from that set itself.
There will often be cards from that set included in the Masterpiece Series (like how the Battle for Zendikar rare dual lands were included in Zendikar Expeditions), but they will typically exist in the set in a traditional frame in their normal rarity in addition to appearing in the Masterpiece Series.
Cambriel
09-12-2016, 03:54 PM
Wait! Wait! Wait! Does this mean ONE card of the whole set is ONLY available as "Masterpiece"???
No, it means the exception is that they can do masterpiece versions of cards in the same set. I.e. Verdurous Gearhulk (and probably the other 4).
Barook
09-12-2016, 04:33 PM
Masterpiece cards are planned for Magic Online, but will not be redeemable and are not counted as part of the set.
RIP MTGO economy. This is huge and completely going to nuke the economy.
Sure, BFZ was one hell of a shitty set, but unredeemable expeditions played a huge part why the EV was so crappy. MTGO prices are tied to paper prices - and paper prices can't exceed a certain threshold because otherwise, cracking packs/boxes open would be more profitable and correct the prices. If they tie a good chunk of the set's value to unredeemable cards, the rest of the sets value is going to suffer and thus, MTGO's set value. The booster prices will follow suit accordingly and tank.
MaximumC
09-12-2016, 04:41 PM
RIP MTGO economy. This is huge and completely going to nuke the economy.
...and that's the best news I've heard in ten years.
MaximumC
09-12-2016, 04:42 PM
While I don't finalize our foil prices until the full set is out, these are the basics I think are going to be in highest-demand from players:
http://media.wizards.com/2016/bVvMNuiu2i_KLD/en_Bk5iqcCW2E.png Forest #262
http://media.wizards.com/2016/bVvMNuiu2i_KLD/en_k3SRcKYEMq.png Island #254
http://media.wizards.com/2016/bVvMNuiu2i_KLD/en_K2DD6SAgs0.png Plains #252
http://media.wizards.com/2016/bVvMNuiu2i_KLD/en_KXwfKLvg3x.png Swamp #257
The other eleven probably won't pull a premium value in foil.
Im not gonna lie, I love all of those. The Island is in competition for The Best Islands of All Time.
...and that's the best news I've heard in ten years.
Indeed, the only way I buy in to MTGO is if everything costs almost nothing, I've spent way too much on paper to buy it all again digital.
Whatever happened to the news of that "Magic Digital Next" thing? Just silence?
No, the next sentence explains that some Masterpiece cards will be cards from that set itself.
This is precisely why a colon was needed there instead of a period. Correct punctuation removes the possibility of misinterpretation.
This set keeps giving!
https://d1wrjbd96vz21d.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/0059_MTGKLD_EN_HRR.png
Infect!
Thanks for the posts, Ben. I'll definitely be running this in Infect.
This is precisely why a colon was needed there instead of a period. Correct punctuation removes the possibility of misinterpretation.
Oh, indeed, had to read it twice myself.
Thanks for the posts, Ben. I'll definitely be running this in Infect.
Is it really better than Vines of the Vastwood though? Honestly unsure.
Barook
09-12-2016, 05:07 PM
...and that's the best news I've heard in ten years.
How is that good news? Sure, Standard gets cheaper, but your prizes will be worth jackshit, as all competitive events pay out packs. If pack value is shit, so are your prizes.
Lord_Mcdonalds
09-12-2016, 05:17 PM
Is it really better than Vines of the Vastwood though? Honestly unsure.
If you're paying G for either, it is better than vines (hexproof and pumps, sick), they're corner cases where Vines wording is a bit better due to it's wording.
If you're paying G for either, it is better than vines (hexproof and pumps, sick), they're corner cases where Vines wording is a bit better due to it's wording.
Indeed, I have been there for games won by someone playing Vines on an opposing creature to stop a game ending equip. But Vines is also +4/+4, which means that it's an instant win with Berserk too.
I am not saying this new card is not good, but I really am unsure if it's better, or how much better than Vines.
Lemnear
09-12-2016, 05:22 PM
Is it really better than Vines of the Vastwood though? Honestly unsure.
I think its better than Berserk. Run this AND Vines
Barook
09-12-2016, 05:22 PM
All masterpieces in Kaladesh (http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/feature/masterpiece-series-kaladesh-inventions-2016-09-12)
Can't really say I'm a fan of the art in many cases. E.g. since when was CoW a drainpipe? :eyebrow:
Megadeus
09-12-2016, 05:29 PM
Art is decent on some of them imo, but the border is fucking hideous. It reminds me of those collectible Pokemon cards that didn't actually have game text on them and were only pictures and collectible
rufus
09-12-2016, 05:30 PM
All masterpieces in Kaladesh (http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/feature/masterpiece-series-kaladesh-inventions-2016-09-12)
...
Wow... they really went in on the chase cards.
Lord_Mcdonalds
09-12-2016, 05:32 PM
Art is a bit overdone on a few of them (Painter's Servant and the swords most notably)
Also Feast and Famine is the eggplant emoji.
MaximumC
09-12-2016, 05:38 PM
Wow... they really went in on the chase cards.
Holy balls. Talk about taking PIMP to the EXTREME.... those are some gorgeous cards.
It's literally the Whos-Who of all broken artifacts that are not on the Reserve List. Did they miss anything?
Cambriel
09-12-2016, 05:42 PM
Art is a bit overdone on a few of them (Painter's Servant and the swords most notably)
Also Feast and Famine is the eggplant emoji.
Cloudstone Curio has stunning art, but the border is way too much.
Lord_Mcdonalds
09-12-2016, 05:43 PM
Holy balls. Talk about taking PIMP to the EXTREME.... those are some gorgeous cards.
It's literally the Whos-Who of all broken artifacts that are not on the Reserve List. Did they miss anything?
Skullclamp and Umezawa's Jitte
rufus
09-12-2016, 05:45 PM
...
It's literally the Whos-Who of all broken artifacts that are not on the Reserve List. Did they miss anything?
Well, they just had SDT in Eternal Masters.
Lemnear
09-12-2016, 05:46 PM
how they actually look: https://twitter.com/TrickMTG/status/775443311557431297
MaximumC
09-12-2016, 05:47 PM
Well, they just had SDT in Eternal Masters.
Didn't stop Mana Crypt from getting all Faberge-egg'd.
Richard Cheese
09-12-2016, 05:49 PM
Art is decent on some of them imo, but the border is fucking hideous. It reminds me of those collectible Pokemon cards that didn't actually have game text on them and were only pictures and collectible
I think it's alright. It's as close to brown on some of these as we're ever going to get anyway. Too bad they'll all likely be stupid expensive. There are a few I'd like to pick up but I'm not about to drop real money just so I can scrub out of a single event every 2 years in style.
how they actually look: https://twitter.com/TrickMTG/status/775443311557431297
That's pretty nice provided they don't turn into a Pringle eight seconds after taking them out of the pack.
Lord_Mcdonalds
09-12-2016, 05:53 PM
If you're going to lose to be honest, at least do so with grace, dignity and style.
Be a baller, fitted suit, foil deck and shiny shoes, stunt on dem hoes.
Barook
09-12-2016, 05:53 PM
how they actually look: https://twitter.com/TrickMTG/status/775443311557431297
Is that the shitty FTV foiling?
Edit: Looks like they really are FTV foiled. (https://twitter.com/TrickMTG/status/775450268607447040)
Look at all this Masterpiece hype:
http://66.media.tumblr.com/3faa2018fb400bd3a87f179c136b914c/tumblr_n3dfwlPSL11rlo1q2o1_1280.jpg
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