Kaladesh -or- When Kiran met Pia

[Cire]

The art on most of those is amazing IMO. Those lotus petals are beautiful.

[supremePINEAPPLE]

All masterpieces in Kaladesh (http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/feature/masterpiece-series-kaladesh-inventions-2016-09-12)

Can't really say I'm a fan of the art in many cases. E.g. since when was CoW a drainpipe? :eyebrow:That's pretty clearly a crucible tipping over to unload it's contents... What do you think a crucible actually is?

[Cire]

That's pretty clearly a crucible tipping over to unload it's contents... What do you think a crucible actually is?

Ha, The original art is more like an hourglass.

[sadface]

There better be a Winter Orb masterpiece with polar bears on it in Aether Revolt.

[Ace/Homebrew]

MAJOR fail going with the FtV foiling. Literally all of my interest in them is gone.

[Lemnear]

There better be a Winter Orb masterpiece with polar bears on it in Aether Revolt.

In before:

- SDT
- Chalice
- Lodestone Golemn
- Voltaic Key
- Memory Jar
- Defense Grid
- Thorn Of Amethyst
- Sphere of Resistance
- Trinishphere

[MaximumC]

MAJOR fail going with the FtV foiling. Literally all of my interest in them is gone.

Why... would they do this?

I wonder if it's because they added Masterpiece Theater to the set after production and they needed to use a different press for the print run?

Has Wizards ever said anything about ye old plastic bottle cap foiling process?

[Richard Cheese]

It's not FTV foiling:

https://twitter.com/TrickMTG/status/775463438986326016

I thought I read that it would be the same as or similar to the Expeditions, but I can't find that comment now. If it is the same, does anyone know how well those have held up over time?

[Barook]

Why... would they do this?
Incompetence

People hate the FTV foiling process since forever. Failing to address this in a timely manner is a typical Wizards move.

IIRC, Aaron Forsythe recently asked on Twitter which foiling process people do prefer.

Edit:

It's not FTV foiling:

https://twitter.com/TrickMTG/status/775463438986326016

I thought I read that it would be the same as or similar to the Expeditions, but I can't find that comment now. If it is the same, does anyone know how well those have held up over time?
Could very well be damage control. What does "similiar" mean if one can't really tell the difference?

[Lemnear]

I guess we can now play 8 "Aether Vials"? #NameFail

[Barook]

I guess we can now play 8 "Aether Vials"? #NameFail
All AEther cards are going with the new "Aether" spelling going forward. It's intentional. Expect a Gatherer update.

[T-101]

Incompetence

People hate the FTV foiling process since forever. Failing to address this in a timely manner is a typical Wizards move.

IIRC, Aaron Forsythe recently asked on Twitter which foiling process people do prefer.

Edit:

Could very well be damage control. What does "similiar" mean if one can't really tell the difference?

Similar = identical, except afterwards we called them Masterpieces instead of FTV. Trust me, veeeery different.

[Meekrab]

RIP MTGO economy. This is huge and completely going to nuke the economy.

Sure, BFZ was one hell of a shitty set, but unredeemable expeditions played a huge part why the EV was so crappy. MTGO prices are tied to paper prices - and paper prices can't exceed a certain threshold because otherwise, cracking packs/boxes open would be more profitable and correct the prices. If they tie a good chunk of the set's value to unredeemable cards, the rest of the sets value is going to suffer and thus, MTGO's set value. The booster prices will follow suit accordingly and tank.
Don't worry, they'll just replace boosters in the prize payouts with more Itchy and Scratchy money.

Side note: These are legal if you pull one in Limited, so I'm hoping somebody at the Pro Tour cracks a Mana Crypt or Sol Ring and whomps on their draft pod. Just for the lulz.

[Richard Cheese]

Could very well be damage control. What does "similiar" mean if one can't really tell the difference?

I might just be making that up. Probably just getting my wires crossed between all the talks of similarity between these and the Expeditions alongside all the foil discussion. I don't even know if the Expeditions used a unique process at all.

[apple713]

All these reprints really piss me off. Its not that cards reprinted typically decline in value. Its that cards like Lotus petal now come in like 3-4 different borders and it becomes difficult to recognize the card. At some point wizards just has to allow any kind of altars as long as there is a name on the card.

[MaximumC]

All these reprints really piss me off. Its not that cards reprinted typically decline in value. Its that cards like Lotus petal now come in like 3-4 different borders and it becomes difficult to recognize the card. At some point wizards just has to allow any kind of altars as long as there is a name on the card.

Quiet, you. Reprints of expensive cards is amazing, it's what the game needs, and the LAST thing we wanna do is give credence to people who say Magic players will complain about anything. Let's prove them wrong just this once, ok?

[CptHaddock]

All these reprints really piss me off. Its not that cards reprinted typically decline in value. Its that cards like Lotus petal now come in like 3-4 different borders and it becomes difficult to recognize the card. At some point wizards just has to allow any kind of altars as long as there is a name on the card.

Is it really hard to look across the table to identify a lotus petal or ask your opponent if you can see the card?

[phonics]

All these reprints really piss me off. Its not that cards reprinted typically decline in value. Its that cards like Lotus petal now come in like 3-4 different borders and it becomes difficult to recognize the card. At some point wizards just has to allow any kind of altars as long as there is a name on the card.

Your first criticism is quite valid, these things don't make cards easier to get so they really don't help with that regard. Neat cards, some look really cool, but its not like these are going to help make magic any more affordable for people who need these cards.

[MaximumC]

Your first criticism is quite valid, these things don't make cards easier to get so they really don't help with that regard. Neat cards, some look really cool, but its not like these are going to help make magic any more affordable for people who need these cards.

Wat

Look, these cards themselves will be expensive. See: Expeditions. However, they are increasing the supply of some hard-to-get older cards, and that cannot help but add a suppressive force to the card prices. There's no universe where supply and demand operate where printing more of a card (even in limited quantities) doesn't help prices somewhat.

[Koby]

Ha, The original art is more like an hourglass.

The original art was chosen by fans, as part of the second round of "You Make The Card;" art direction included.

[Meekrab]

Your first criticism is quite valid, these things don't make cards easier to get so they really don't help with that regard. Neat cards, some look really cool, but its not like these are going to help make magic any more affordable for people who need these cards.
They very much make regular mythics (lol) and rares easier to get, because certain types of person need them. Whether this is ultimately good for the game in the long term, we're about to find out.

[Echelon]

I hate how much I like the look of some of those Invention things. Luckily I don't plan on playing any of them, so yay!

[maraxusofkelds]

It's not FTV foiling:

https://twitter.com/TrickMTG/status/775463438986326016

I thought I read that it would be the same as or similar to the Expeditions, but I can't find that comment now. If it is the same, does anyone know how well those have held up over time?

https://twitter.com/TrickMTG/status/775443311557431297

It is the FTV foiling process. Notice the vertical shine lines that FTV foils have and no other foils have. These new expditions are probably shinier but shine the exact same way the FTV foils shine.

[Scott]

http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/avatars/127/322/636093239699338990.png

[Darkenslight]

Wat

Look, these cards themselves will be expensive. See: Expeditions. However, they are increasing the supply of some hard-to-get older cards, and that cannot help but add a suppressive force to the card prices. There's no universe where supply and demand operate where printing more of a card (even in limited quantities) doesn't help prices somewhat.

For example, I don't know if Mana Crypt was ever reprinted before this year, and that was basically a book promo that was incredibly difficult to get in good condition. Yes, there are one or two dud in the Masterpiece artworks, but damn if most of them don't just knock it right out of the park.

[Spam]

Yeah, because the "ultra rare" expeditions really suppressed the prices of the normal cards. I tough people would start to see a low effort cash grab, but no. How can people be hyped about this,just after we got conspiracy, really baffles me.

[Lemnear]

For example, I don't know if Mana Crypt was ever reprinted before this year, and that was basically a book promo that was incredibly difficult to get in good condition. Yes, there are one or two dud in the Masterpiece artworks, but damn if most of them don't just knock it right out of the park.

Its the 4th iteration total. Kaladesh, Judge Promo, Eternal Masters and the original Book Promo

[T-101]

http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/avatars/127/322/636093239699338990.png

Turns off Sneak Attack, Shallow Grave and Through the Breach pretty well.

[swoop]

And slows down aluren.. Or not

Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Tapatalk

[Mr Miagi]

Turns off Sneak Attack, Shallow Grave and Through the Breach pretty well.

Thank wizards, now unban splinter twin... :rolleyes:

[bruizar]

Ill hold off on deciding whether or not i will go for incentions until ive seen the foiling irl. Ftv foil is a dealbreaker for me. Just give me mercadian masques foiling and im happy to pull the trigger. Im not dropping several thousand euro to acquire ftv.cards also, they better finish the dang swords of x y cycle because the mismatches are already terrible.

[jmlima]

...
Whatever happened to the news of that "Magic Digital Next" thing? Just silence?

Pretty much, The odd mention about it being 'in development' in corporate reports and that's about it.

[Rocco111]

Turns off Sneak Attack, Shallow Grave and Through the Breach pretty well.

This shuts down Elfball, Burn, UR Delver Aggro....

This card is a disaster.

[JeroenC]

https://twitter.com/TrickMTG/status/775443311557431297

It is the FTV foiling process. Notice the vertical shine lines that FTV foils have and no other foils have. These new expditions are probably shinier but shine the exact same way the FTV foils shine.

It's actually a slightly different foiling process. From reddit:

trickjarrett 45 points 11 hours ago
As I posted on Twitter, while they do look similar to FTV, they are done using a slightly different process.
perma-linkembedsaveparentreportgive goldreply

[Ace/Homebrew]

It's actually a slightly different foiling process.

Still a turd, just smells a little different. :tongue:

[bruizar]

The problem is that you cant master-series if everything is ugly ftv foiledw, but u also wont be able to get consistent foiling if they change it -> master series dead on arrival

[Whitefaces]

And slows down aluren.. Or not

Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Tapatalk

Best comment in the thread, hands down. Bravo.

[MaximumC]

Yeah, because the "ultra rare" expeditions really suppressed the prices of the normal cards. I tough people would start to see a low effort cash grab, but no. How can people be hyped about this,just after we got conspiracy, really baffles me.

How can we get hyped when it's clear Wizards understands reprints are needed and is demonstrating it will reprint those cards? Oh, I duuno.

I mean, cmon. Are we really gonna grumble about how theyre not printing ENOUGH? Shouldn't we congratulate Wizards for doing what everyone wants them to do?

[Mr Miagi]

How can we get hyped when it's clear Wizards understands reprints are needed and is demonstrating it will reprint those cards? Oh, I duuno.

I mean, cmon. Are we really gonna grumble about how theyre not printing ENOUGH? Shouldn't we congratulate Wizards for doing what everyone wants them to do?

Printing them in form of expedition is questionable move. I mean, it's defintely better than not reprinting them at all in any form, but to say these expedition reprints will change any prices of the regular versions of these particular cards is obviously wrong. Expeditions cater to specific market, the ones that have the money to buy luxury items as these obviously are at this rarity. If anything it will create a possibility that new rares/mythics will be cheaper simply due to the sheer volume of new boxes opened (people looking for the ghost, super ultra rare expeditions), thus potnetially lowering the price of potentially playable eternal cards (or even standard for that matter).

[Cire]

http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/attachments/158/522/636093560898672171.jpg

Protection - Check
Pitches to Fow - Check
Draw - Check
Still not as good as JMTS - Check

[Ace/Homebrew]

Dovin Baan

Well... at least this makes sense now:

http://media.wizards.com/2016/bVvMNuiu2i_KLD/en_Te4nde8BQy.png

Dovin seems good! Not Legacy good... but playable card is playable.

[MaximumC]

Printing them in form of expedition is questionable move. I mean, it's defintely better than not reprinting them at all in any form, but to say these expedition reprints will change any prices of the regular versions of these particular cards is obviously wrong.

That's the point: they are reprinting cards in some form. That's a good thing. Let's be thankful this is happening and be happy that Wizards understands the desires of their customers. Let's not complain that they're not doing ENOUGH of it. I am one of those rare fellows that actually LOVED Chronicles when it came out. No better way for a high school kid to get his hands on a lot of out of print cards than that dirt-cheap, white bordered garbage set. I'd love it if they did it again. But, I understand why they do not, and I am happy they're doing SOMETHING.

And I don't think it's fair to say that premium printings don't affect prices. Sure, you don't see a massive cratering of the prices immediately. The Expeditions did not tank the normal versions. However, with the Masterpiece reprints, it becomes massively more difficult for speculators to stage a buy-out of all the small number of versions of a card on the market. Imagine if Moat were not on the reserve list and were printed as an Expedition -- would it still have been the target of a buyout?

The point is, this behavior is good, thwarts some of the market problems Magic has, and if we want more of it, we need to express how much we LIKE it. Not whine about how we want more.


http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/attachments/158/522/636093560898672171.jpg

Protection - Check
Pitches to Fow - Check
Draw - Check
Still not as good as JMTS - Check

I think Kiora had a sex change operation.

http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=394380&type=card

Seems like the same damn card to me. The ultimate is worse, though.

[Ace/Homebrew]

Dovin survives Bolt, and has extra fingers. :tongue:

[rufus]

Hmm... does bomat courier work as a burn card?


Bomat Courier 1
Haste
When Bomat Courier attacks, exile the top card of your library face down (you can't look at it)

R,Discard Your hand, Sacrifice Bomat Courier: Put all cards exiled with bomat courier into their owners' hands.
1/1


Also another self-renanimator for modern dredge.

[H]

Dovin survives Bolt, and has extra fingers. :tongue:

Kiora is flat unplayble in basically every format. This guy is probably unplayable in anything but Modern and Standard. At a CMC of 3 he could have been very solidly good to great. At this cost, Narset Transcendent is probably better in these colors.

On the JTMS Scale he is probably a 5/10. For reference, LilianaOTV is an 8, new Chandra is probably a 7, obviously JTMS is the pinnacle, a 10/10 (not that he is perfect, but he is probably the most powerful 'Walker we will ever see printed).

[Richard Cheese]

How can we get hyped when it's clear Wizards understands reprints are needed and is demonstrating it will reprint those cards? Oh, I duuno.

I mean, cmon. Are we really gonna grumble about how theyre not printing ENOUGH? Shouldn't we congratulate Wizards for doing what everyone wants them to do?

Because they aren't appreciably increasing the available supply so this will have little to no impact on the secondary market for those cards?

Just look at the prices on Zendikar fetches. Every one of them except Misty is higher now than before BFZ, and none of them significantly dropped after it came out. The masterpieces are cool and all, but it's fairly obvious that this is more about moving packs, and I think that's fine. Hasbro wants to make money just like every other corporation, and I'd rather the chase cards be reprints than more stupidly overpowered mythics. My only concern is that they'll use these as an excuse to do fewer real reprints because it allows them to appease the community while maintaining the reprint equity of those cards.

Edit: I don't see how these affect buyouts either, except maybe when the set is still being printed. If you bought up all the Tarns now and for some strange reason didn't buy the expeditions too, worst case you're capped at the price of the expedition versions. If by some miracle the expedition version does not also increase in price, that's a measly 200% increase!

[HdH_Cthulhu]

Kiora is flat unplayble in basically every format. This guy is probably unplayable in anything but Modern and Standard. At a CMC of 3 he could have been very solidly good to great. At this cost, Narset Transcendent is probably better in these colors.

On the JTMS Scale he is probably a 5/10. For reference, LilianaOTV is an 8, new Chandra is probably a 7, obviously JTMS is the pinnacle, a 10/10 (not that he is perfect, but he is probably the most powerful 'Walker we will ever see printed).

This scale is off. If LoTV is 8 and JTMS is 10, what the hell is 9. You can say nothing is 9 rated, you just want an empty slot to make JTMS look better, but... yah whatever!

[the Thin White Duke]

Because they aren't appreciably increasing the available supply so this will have little to no impact on the secondary market for those cards?

Just look at the prices on Zendikar fetches. Every one of them except Misty is higher now than before BFZ, and none of them significantly dropped after it came out. The masterpieces are cool and all, but it's fairly obvious that this is more about moving packs, and I think that's fine. Hasbro wants to make money just like every other corporation, and I'd rather the chase cards be reprints than more stupidly overpowered mythics. My only concern is that they'll use these as an excuse to do fewer real reprints because it allows them to appease the community while maintaining the reprint equity of those cards.

Edit: I don't see how these affect buyouts either, except maybe when the set is still being printed. If you bought up all the Tarns now and for some strange reason didn't buy the expeditions too, worst case you're capped at the price of the expedition versions. If by some miracle the expedition version does not also increase in price, that's a measly 200% increase!

Agreed 100%. This kind of limited "reprint" only benefits Wizards and the vendors who will sell these for $$ to people who need prepackaged pimp products.
This is like sports cards companies when they started producing limited run chase cards to sell boxes. A 1992 Frank Thomas Diamond King did not affect a 1991 Frank Thomas standard set card. The two are completely separate entities due to print runs. These new expeditions should not even be considered reprints by any stretch. If anything they are akin to Judge foils. These wull not impact pricing of the srandard printings.
Furthermore, if Wizards wanted to be intellectually honest, they would print these with gold borders and hence, not tournament legal.
Sorry to derail a spoiler thread.

[H]

This scale is off. If LoTV is 8 and JTMS is 10, what the hell is 9. You can say nothing is 9 rated, you just want an empty slot to make JTMS look better, but... yah whatever!

It's not to make Jace look better, Jace is better. What is the next best 'Walker to Jace? Liliana, right? Is she even on the same level though? No, I don't believe she is at all. You can disagree and that is fine, but that is how I came up with it.

[Dice_Box]

Best walker is always Format dependent. The best walker in Legacy (Jace) is not the same as the best in Vintage (Dack). At least in my view. So I think that Jace being the "Best" is context dependent. Granted, the context is the format this forum is made for... so I will shut up now.

[bruizar]

This scale is off. If LoTV is 8 and JTMS is 10, what the hell is 9. You can say nothing is 9 rated, you just want an empty slot to make JTMS look better, but... yah whatever!

Ordinal vs ratio

[H]

Best walker is always Format dependent. The best walker in Legacy (Jace) is not the same as the best in Vintage (Dack). At least in my view. So I think that Jace being the "Best" is context dependent. Granted, the context is the format this forum is made for... so I will shut up now.

A fair point. Best, in the context of my post, would be "most powerful/playable" and presumably in Legacy, since that's where we are. Obviously Modern is a whole different animal, since Jace, Dack, even Kaya are not legal. Vintage is also a totally different animal, because of how central Artifacts are and the prevelance of fast Mana.

Of course there is a boat-load of reasons why at a given moment any Planewalker could be better than any other, but on the balance of all of their abilities with respect to their CMC, I don't see any of them being near Jace in power-level.


Ordinal vs ratio

Word. :cool:

At least someone gets it.

[ahg113]

A fair point. Best, in the context of my post, would be "most powerful/playable" and presumably in Legacy, since that's where we are. Obviously Modern is a whole different animal, since Jace, Dack, even Kaya are not legal. Vintage is also a totally different animal, because of how central Artifacts are and the prevelance of fast Mana.

Of course there is a boat-load of reasons why at a given moment any Planewalker could be better than any other, but on the balance of all of their abilities with respect to their CMC, I don't see any of them being near Jace in power-level.



Word. :cool:

At least someone gets it.

Just for the heck of it, based on "context" I've often been pissed to see a Karn Liberated across the board, (but maybe that was Modern... play so infrequently now, memories mish-mashing). In those big mana decks, that's as easily playable as JTMS in a reg U deck.

[MaximumC]

It's not to make Jace look better, Jace is better. What is the next best 'Walker to Jace? Liliana, right? Is she even on the same level though? No, I don't believe she is at all. You can disagree and that is fine, but that is how I came up with it.

For all of you who like lists, I have determined for all time:


HOW GUD IS YOUR PLANESWALKER

10 - Jace, The MindSculptor (multi-format all-star)

9 - Liliana of the Veil, Dack Fayden, Tezzeret The Seeker (format dependent all-star)

8 - Nahiri, the Harbinger, Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas, Narset Transcendant, Daretti, Scrap Savant, Domi Rade, Karn Liberated (deck-specific key card)

7 - Elspeth, Knight-Errant, Ajani Vengant, Chandra Pyromaster, Gideon, Ally of Zendikar, Kaya, Ghost Assassin,
Koth of the Hammer, Liliana, the Last Hope, Nissa, Voice of Zendikar, Ob Nixilis Reignited, Sorin, Lord of Innistrad, Ugin, the Spirit Dragon (Excellent role-players)

6 - Ajani, Caller of the Pride, Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver, Chandra, Flame Caller, Daretti, Ingenious Iconoclast, Elspeth, Sun's Champion, Garruk Wildspeaker, Jace Beleren, Kiora, Master of the Depths, Liliana of the Dark Realms,
Nissa, Worldwaker, Ob Nixilis of the Black Oath, Ral Zarek, Sorin Markov, Tamiyo, Field Researcher, Xenagos, the Reveler (powerful , unique, or undercosted effects, potentially something to brew with. Sorin specifically is saved by EDH!)

5 - Arlin Kordd, Chandra, the Firebrand, Freyalise, Llanowar's Fury, Garruck Relentless, Garruk, Caller of Beasts, Jace, Architect of Thought, Kiora, the Crashing Wave, Sarkhan Unbroken, Sorin, Solemn Visitor, Tamiyo, the Moon Sage, Venser, the Sojourner, Vraska the Unseen (the bottom tier of "playable" walkers; at least these walkers protect themselves or do something unique, even if no deck or very few decks have taken advantage of it.)

4 - Ajani Steadfast, Ajani, Mentor of Heroes, Chandra Nalaar, Chandra, the Fire, Gideon, Champion of Justice, Jace, Memory Adept, Liliana Vess, Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker (has some utility, but fails to do some basic stuff like protect itself and probably won't see any play anymore even if it did while in Standard)

3 - Ajani Goldmane, Garruk, Apex Predator, Jace, the Living Guildpact, Jace, Unraveler of Secrets,
Nahiri, the Lithomancer, Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker, Nissa Revane, Sarkhan Vol (pretty bad walkers with minor effects compared to their cost that are hard to see why you'd play them)

2 - Chandra Ablaze, Elspeth Tirel, Sarkhan the Mad, Sorin, Grim Nemesis, Teferi, Temporal Archmage (overcosted or weak to the point where you'll be mocked for playing it)

1 - Tibalt, the Fiend Blooded (garbage tier)


Best walker is always Format dependent. The best walker in Legacy (Jace) is not the same as the best in Vintage (Dack). At least in my view. So I think that Jace being the "Best" is context dependent. Granted, the context is the format this forum is made for... so I will shut up now.

You lie, list is king.

[ahg113]

You lie, list is king.

Short, sweet, alliterative, admirable pretty prose.

P.S. - Sounds like something the Mayor would say on China, IL.

[ReAnimator]

All you people complaining that the Masterpieces won't be helping card prices are insane. They might not help you with card prices and availability, but they certainly push down the price of standard by a whole lot, making any legacy/modern payables in those sets cheaper. As for legacy stuff, that's what EMA and MMA are supposed to do. The Masterpieces aren't meant as price correction and availability helpers for eternal formats. Not to mention there will be players who get masterpieces of certain cards and then sell their originals, there will be a bit of a help with availability even if it's small, and might not effect the price.

Any reprinting is helpful no mater how limited, and its a heck of a lot better than Wotc's previous policy of doing sweet fuck all. We now have MA sets and these as well. That is something and heading in the right direction, even if it isn't fixing every single thing right away.

[H]

You lie, list is king.

I disagree with a bunch of stuff on this ontology, but tiers are fair. Again, mine was rating Jace a ten out of ten and going from there and by that I do not believe we have ever seen a nine.

[BenBleiweiss]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CsQFdtsUMAEtX50.png
I have to imagine that Artifact Kird Ape makes the cut somewhere.

[Gheizen64]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CsQFdtsUMAEtX50.png
I have to imagine that Artifact Kird Ape makes the cut somewhere.

I doubt kird ape is even good in standard nowadays without good burn to compliment it and midrange creatures being much better than they used to be.

EDIT: i mean white has what is essentially a 3/2 first striker for W on attack in this set. The card would've been good/playable at R 2/1, gain haste if you control artifacts, but no one has time for kird apes in 2016.

[MaximumC]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CsQFdtsUMAEtX50.png
I have to imagine that Artifact Kird Ape makes the cut somewhere.

Reminder: this card sees no play.
http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=397776&type=card

[ahg113]

Reminder: this card sees no play.
http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=397776&type=card

Yeah, but it dies to Shock. So...

[MaximumC]

Yeah, but it dies to shock. So...

Oh right I forgot shock

[Bobmans]

Yeah, but it dies to shock. So...
Ooo... that's shocking.

[rufus]

I doubt kird ape is even good in standard nowadays without good burn to compliment it and midrange creatures being much better than they used to be.


I imagine red/white artificers could be 2nd tier jank in standard with Stone Haven Outfitter, the tribal goggles, Weapons Trainer and the two kird-alikes.

[Richard Cheese]

I doubt kird ape is even good in standard nowadays without good burn to compliment it and midrange creatures being much better than they used to be.

EDIT: i mean white has what is essentially a 3/2 first striker for W on attack in this set. The card would've been good/playable at R 2/1, gain haste if you control artifacts, but no one has time for kird apes in 2016.

Standard artifact Zoo with both of these guys and Lupine Prototype?!?!?

[GreatWhale]

Best walker is always Format dependent. The best walker in Legacy (Jace) is not the same as the best in Vintage (Dack). At least in my view. So I think that Jace being the "Best" is context dependent. Granted, the context is the format this forum is made for... so I will shut up now.

Gross, other formats. I puked in my mouth a little.

[Crimhead]

WTF is the meaning of this card?

http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/avatars/thumbnails/127/354/200/283/636093756051296222.png

[swoop]

Land cycle for limited?

Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Tapatalk

[Crimhead]

Land cycle for limited?

Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Tapatalk
This can only be a cycle if we dont get three of each basic.

[supremePINEAPPLE]

It's just a shitty land for the planeswalker decks. Nissa has a UG one too.

[Cire]

http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/avatars/thumbnails/127/360/200/283/636093793732205028.jpeg

Another decent energy producer. We now have the turtle, the land, and the puzzleknots. . . all we really need is another card like Marvel that it's worth using energy on.

[joven]

Where, other than Shops, does this guy see any play? I do not know what makes him worthy of such treatment.

Hangarback Walker had to be somewhere in the Kaladesh set.



Brown borders on artifacts? Someone deserves a promotion!

They're not brown. They're mythic orange.

It's bronze.




Side note: These are legal if you pull one in Limited, so I'm hoping somebody at the Pro Tour cracks a Mana Crypt or Sol Ring and whomps on their draft pod. Just for the lulz.

Boosters of the drafts at high-level events like the Pro Tour are opened and checked in advance.


--
In my opinion the whole Expeditions-Inventions-Masterpiece-thing is mainly because it sells booster boxes like crazy. Kaladesh has Fast Lands AND Inventions!!
A side effect is that more boosters of the set are opened, so all normal cards become more accessible.
And pimps get pimp cards.

Most of the Kaladesh Inventions look really cool. The best artworks are probably: Mana Crypt, Static Orb, Cloudstone Curio. Aether Vial and both Moxen look also good.
The two missing swords are probably in Aether Revolt.

[square_two]

http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/avatars/thumbnails/127/360/200/283/636093793732205028.jpeg

Another decent energy producer. We now have the turtle, the land, and the puzzleknots. . . all we really need is another card like Marvel that it's worth using energy on.

When you really want another shuffle + "cantrip" (if you are playing with a couple basics) to help setup Emrakul on top of your library with Top. So that you can cast it with Marvel :wink:

[T-101]

http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/avatars/thumbnails/127/360/200/283/636093793732205028.jpeg

Another decent energy producer. We now have the turtle, the land, and the puzzleknots. . . all we really need is another card like Marvel that it's worth using energy on.

I really think Marvel is supposed to be THE big payoff for having energy. I don't expect a better payoff this set. It's not actually the worst card in the world, provided you're playing energy cards.

People will gladly pay 4 to win the game, and with Brainstorm and Ponder, you better be winning with this. It ends up being less mana than Sneak Attack, you keep Emrakul, and you get the cast trigger.

The real doubt comes from whether there will be enough non-terrible cards that can make 6 energy before you lose.

[rufus]

Another card with 8 symbols in a row. I wonder if R&D knows that people have subitizing limits.

This "uncommon explicitly depends on mythic rare" stuff is pretty awful too.

[Dice_Box]

WTF is the meaning of this card?

http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/avatars/thumbnails/127/354/200/283/636093756051296222.png
It's in the pack that the shitty walkers are in, not boosters.

[Cire]

http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/avatars/thumbnails/127/371/200/283/636094005946634350.png

Super affinity for non-creature artifacts? Stax? Maybe?

[square_two]

Super affinity for non-creature artifacts? Stax? Maybe?

And it works...surprisingly well with regular affinity. Frogmite + Enforcer makes this beastie free right?

Edit: Nevermind, didn't read the "noncreature artifacts" clause.

[Echelon]

http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/avatars/thumbnails/127/371/200/283/636094005946634350.png

Super affinity for non-creature artifacts? Stax? Maybe?

Well, you can power it out on T2 with 2 Sol lands and 2 Grim Monoliths.

T1 -> Ancient Tomb, Monolith. T2 -> Another Ancient Tomb, tap the first to cast another Monolith, tap Tomb 2 & Monoliths for 8. Even leaves you with mana to pay for Daze.

I'm not saying it's good. I'm just saying you can.

[lyracian]

Protection - Check
Pitches to Fow - Check
Draw - Check
Still not as good as JMTS - Check
:laugh:

[bruizar]

And it works...surprisingly well with regular affinity. Frogmite + Enforcer makes this beastie free right?

Edit: Nevermind, didn't read the "noncreature artifacts" clause.

Arcum dagsson into Possessed Portal or Darksteel Forge, then drop this for free. 😎

Auto include for EDH decks

[rufus]

Well, you can power it out on T2 with 2 Sol lands and 2 Grim Monoliths....

Yeah, there's a question of how much you want to invest in utility artifacts. There's also the issue that he's neither evasive nor protected.

Are there any decks that want to board wipe themselves with the sacrifice ability?

Neat card, but unlikely to be legacy material.

[H]

Yeah, there's a question of how much you want to invest in utility artifacts. There's also the issue that he's neither evasive nor protected.

Are there any decks that want to board wipe themselves with the sacrifice ability?

Neat card, but unlikely to be legacy material.

Indeed, without even Tample he seems pretty poor. It's not even clear that this is any better than Mycosynth Golem, at least to me.

[Darkenslight]

Indeed, without even Tample he seems pretty poor. It's not even clear that this is any better than Mycosynth Golem, at least to me.

Well, he's a much faster clock, I guess...

[H]

Well, he's a much faster clock, I guess...

Yeah, but is harder to cast cheaply/doesn't help cast anything else. I wouldn't play either in a real competative deck, but at least Golem has implications for EDH where this new guy doesn't (I don't think, at least).

[Monkey_Island]

Sphere effects make him cheaper to cast which can be interesting for Vintage MUD or maybe Legacy Stax ?

[Cire]

Magic Christmas land would be . . . idk . . .

1) Sol Land + Mox --> Trinisphere
2) Land --> Smokestack
3) Metalwork Collusus

?

[H]

Magic Christmas land would be . . . idk . . .

1) Sol Land + Mox --> Trinisphere
2) Land --> Smokestack
3) Metalwork Collusus

?

4) Hope they don't play Swords to Plowshares.

[Dice_Box]

Magic Christmas land would be . . . idk . . .

1) Sol Land + Mox --> Trinisphere
2) Land --> Smokestack
3) Metalwork Collusus

?
1) Sol, Grim Monolith, Mox Opal, 3 Ball.
2) Sol, Stax, whatever?

[Cire]

1) Sol, Grim Monolith, Mox Opal, 3 Ball.
2) Sol, Stax, whatever?

Best random Stax type deck I can come up with is this shitty list. . . yeah it's pretty bad :laugh:

4 Metalwork Colossus

4 Batterskull
4 Sphere of Resistance
4 Thorn of Amethyst
4 Tangle Wire
4 Trinisphere
4 Ghirapur Orrery
4 Smokestack
4 Crucible of Worlds
4 Mox Opal
4 Grim Monolith

4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Wasteland
4 Other?

Yeah

[Cliq]

Because they aren't appreciably increasing the available supply so this will have little to no impact on the secondary market for those cards?

Just look at the prices on Zendikar fetches. Every one of them except Misty is higher now than before BFZ, and none of them significantly dropped after it came out. The masterpieces are cool and all, but it's fairly obvious that this is more about moving packs, and I think that's fine. Hasbro wants to make money just like every other corporation, and I'd rather the chase cards be reprints than more stupidly overpowered mythics. My only concern is that they'll use these as an excuse to do fewer real reprints because it allows them to appease the community while maintaining the reprint equity of those cards.

Edit: I don't see how these affect buyouts either, except maybe when the set is still being printed. If you bought up all the Tarns now and for some strange reason didn't buy the expeditions too, worst case you're capped at the price of the expedition versions. If by some miracle the expedition version does not also increase in price, that's a measly 200% increase!

Using Modern staples is a bad example because Modern is growing faster than these could have affected the supply. A better example would be Forbidden Orchard, where if you look at the price trend it was growing steadily and then flattened out around BFZ.

[ahg113]

Posting just because, I like that Perpetual Timepiece spoiler. Makes more sense (if any) in LED Dredge, but it feels like they made an anti-hate card for graveyard decks. Mill, and gy protection. Gimmick card is gimmick, but appreciated. Tempted to run it in Manaless Dredge, because I am obtuse and lulz.

Long live Tymaret, the Murder King

[Lemnear]

Best random Stax type deck I can come up with is this shitty list. . . yeah it's pretty bad :laugh:

4 Metalwork Colossus

4 Batterskull
4 Sphere of Resistance
4 Thorn of Amethyst
4 Tangle Wire
4 Trinisphere
4 Ghirapur Orrery
4 Smokestack
4 Crucible of Worlds
4 Mox Opal
4 Grim Monolith

4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Wasteland
4 Other?

Yeah

Why not Mycosynth Golem AND Metalwork Collossus? If you drop Mycosynth, Metalwork is basically free

[BenBleiweiss]

http://66.media.tumblr.com/10a2b94b621e5d3755a63402af140655/tumblr_inline_odgv9nXl6w1r0pk4w_250.png

Let's add +1 to every number on Tormenting Voice aside from the mana cost, and see if anyone notices!

At some point, R1 for a Draw 3 has to be playable right? RIGHT? RIIIIIGHT?

[rufus]

Best random Stax type deck I can come up with is this shitty list. . . yeah it's pretty bad :laugh:

My inclination was more toward a `semblance anvil` combo build.

Metalwork Colossus
Paradoxical Outcome

Ethersworn Cannonist
Helm of Awakening

Thirst for Knowledge

Grim Monolith

Sensei's Divining Top

Ichor Wellspring
Pentad Prism
Tsabo's Web
...

[Cire]

Why not Mycosynth Golem AND Metalwork Collossus? If you drop Mycosynth, Metalwork is basically free

I guess the serious answer is that the Golem is uncastable in the deck, you'll never have enough artifacts out (like 3-4 at most) to power it out while Collossus seems to usually cost around 4 or less around turn 3). Again, though, I too think it's unplayable in a good or mediocre legacy deck - but it is an interesting effect and I'm happy to have wizards putting out so many cards that get me brewing fun little lists.

[MaximumC]

Why not Mycosynth Golem AND Metalwork Collossus? If you drop Mycosynth, Metalwork is basically free


I guess the serious answer is that the Golem is uncastable in the deck, you'll never have enough artifacts out (like 3-4 at most) to power it out while Collossus seems to usually cost around 4 or less around turn 3). Again, though, I too think it's unplayable in a good or mediocre legacy deck - but it is an interesting effect and I'm happy to have wizards putting out so many cards that get me brewing fun little lists.

No, the serious answer is that COLOSSUS DOES NOT COUNT ARTIFACT CREATURES. It only counts non-creature artifacts.

Colossus has some things going for it, but I don't think it's better than alternatives in artifact-heavy decks. I dare say it is A Bad Card (tm).

First, the positives:

1. If you play other expensive artifacts (Smokestack and.... that's about it, folks) then this curves nicely. Smokestack generating 4 mana is pretty nifty.
2. You can recur him back to your hand by sacrificing artifacts. Thats nice.

Now, the negatives:

1. This is win-more to the extreme. He's only cheap to cast if you've flooded the board with non-creature artifacts. If you've done that, and that's your deck's goal in life, why are you not winning already? Wouldn't you rather run Lodestone Golem or Eldrazi to keep up the disruption while also being a win condition? When's the last time Su-Chi or Juggernaut saw play, eh?

2. Chump block'n for days. In a world with token creatures (moreso in Vintage) or cheap dorks (every deck in Legacy that isn't Show and Tell, Miracles, or Storm) Colossus just steps on 2/xs like an idiot while your opponent looks for a Swords to Plowshares.

3. Even taking advantage of the recurring feature supposes you still have lots of artifacts out there to (a) sacrifice and (b) fuel his casting cost. Again, if you've got a bunch of artifacts out there, Why Are You Not Winning? Did You Build A Bad Deck?

[H]

No, the serious answer is that COLOSSUS DOES NOT COUNT ARTIFACT CREATURES. It only counts non-creature artifacts.

Yeah, we know, but Mycosynth Golem gives him Affinity for Artifacts, so he would have two cost reducers.

[rufus]

...

Let's add +1 to every number on Tormenting Voice aside from the mana cost, and see if anyone notices!

At some point, R1 for a Draw 3 has to be playable right? RIGHT? RIIIIIGHT?

If you have the mana and cards it's fun with Geistblast or other spell copy effects - we might see that in standard. Also a contender for modern dredge. Legacy madness decks aren't a thing, and, I think, dredge decks have better options.

[MaximumC]

Yeah, we know, but Mycosynth Golem gives him Affinity for Artifacts, so he would have two cost reducers.

Okay fine but Colossus still trips over 1/1 Monk tokens instead of actually ending the game.

[ScottW]

http://66.media.tumblr.com/10a2b94b621e5d3755a63402af140655/tumblr_inline_odgv9nXl6w1r0pk4w_250.png

Let's add +1 to every number on Tormenting Voice aside from the mana cost, and see if anyone notices!

At some point, R1 for a Draw 3 has to be playable right? RIGHT? RIIIIIGHT?

And a -1 for thematic art and name.

[MaximumC]

http://66.media.tumblr.com/10a2b94b621e5d3755a63402af140655/tumblr_inline_odgv9nXl6w1r0pk4w_250.png

Let's add +1 to every number on Tormenting Voice aside from the mana cost, and see if anyone notices!

At some point, R1 for a Draw 3 has to be playable right? RIGHT? RIIIIIGHT?

I like this line of experimentation, and I hope it brings us to BROKENTOWN eventually. This card probably is not it, though. Compares unfavorably to Ideas Unbound, which sees no play.


And a -1 for thematic art and name.

It is now cannon that when you hug your mommy:

1) Your hair stops being on fire; and
2) You forget a bunch of stuff and then learn a bunch of new things due to Mom-mosis.

[H]

Okay fine but Colossus still trips over 1/1 Monk tokens instead of actually ending the game.

Oh, I already said that lacking Trample, at the very least, made this card booty-ass jank-rare material.


It is now cannon that when you hug your mommy:

1) Your hair stops being on fire; and
2) You forget a bunch of stuff and then learn a bunch of new things due to Mom-mosis.

That's what happens whenever I do it. Doesn't work that way for you?

[TsumiBand]

And a -1 for thematic art and name.

WTH bruh, even planeswalkers need hugs n shit

[Barook]

WTH bruh, even planeswalkers need hugs n shit
Nah, planeswalker need giant robots.

Even Urza understood that.

[Richard Cheese]

Nah, planeswalker need giant robots.

Even Urza understood that.

Why not both?!?!!

http://images.fandango.com/MDCsite/images/featured/201508/EverettCollection_IronGiant-150827-585.jpg

[Darkenslight]

Welp, we got a Myr Retriever sidegrade at common called Workshop Assistant (it's a 1/2 for 3, and we got an uncommon variant on Etherium Sculptor named Foundry Inspector that's a 3/2 for 3, too.

(Source is AVclub (http://www.avclub.com/article/heres-exclusive-look-4-cards-magic-gatheringkalade-242612).)

[rufus]

.. uncommon variant on Etherium Sculptor named Foundry Inspector that's a 3/2 for 3, too ...

It really seems like there should be a way to abuse those artifact enablers.

[TsumiBand]

Nah, planeswalker need giant robots.

Even Urza understood that.

Feel like Urza coulda used a hug after everything though.

[MaximumC]

Feel like Urza coulda used a hug after everything though.

Never hug Urza. If he want to hug you, it's probably because he wants to strap a bomb to your back. For the "greater good."

https://s14.postimg.org/pcgnvtik1/Everett_Collection_Iron_Giant_150827_585.jpg

[MaximumC]

It really seems like there should be a way to abuse those artifact enablers.

2x Sensei's Divining Top = StormSTORMSTORMSTORMSTORM

[Cire]

2x Sensei's Divining Top = StormSTORMSTORMSTORMSTORM

Dumb deck list coming up!

4 Etherium Sculptor
4 Foundry Inspector

4 Eternal Tutor
4 Force of Will
4 Daze
4 Counterbalance
4 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Brainfreeze
4 Genesis Chamber

4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
12 Lands

[MaximumC]

Dumb deck list coming up!

4 Etherium Sculptor
4 Foundry Inspector

4 Eternal Tutor
4 Force of Will
4 Daze
4 Counterbalance
4 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Brainfreeze
4 Genesis Chamber

4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
12 Lands

You forgot Artificer's Intuition, Transmute Artifact, and Trinket Mage.

Also... why Genesis Chamber, exactly...?

[Namida]

Helm of Awakening + Brain Freeze/Grapeshot have been in the sideboard of Painter and Doomsday decks to work with the Tops those decks already play. I'd imagine the drawback of affecting both players is less harsh than the drawback of being a creature if you're just dropping your cost reducer to immediately combo (Especially in Legacy where most costs are already one mana or free).

[TsumiBand]

Never hug Urza. If he want to hug you, it's probably because he wants to strap a bomb to your back. For the "greater good."

https://s14.postimg.org/pcgnvtik1/Everett_Collection_Iron_Giant_150827_585.jpg

To me this is a sign that Ma and Pa Urza ain't hug enough

[civet five]

You forgot Artificer's Intuition, Transmute Artifact, and Trinket Mage.

Also... why Genesis Chamber, exactly...?

Genesis Chamber is probably a case of RTFC.

I'm not convinced that Foundry Inspector, which can be AD'd and Bolted (and Forked Bolted and Fired and PFired) is better than Helm. Also, IME messing with Helm/Top as a Storm engine, Brain Freeze is great until you run into Emrakul or Progenitus. Tendrils and Grapeshot are still your best bet. I don't think there's a good EtB or LtB trigger for Artifacts that directly kills - there's a few creatures like Arcbound Crusher that will get arbitrarily large, but what this deck really needs is a Disciple of the Vault-type effect to kill reliably.

[Echelon]

Just a loose thought here - all those "when an artifact ETB" cards seem pretty cool with Tireless Tracker, since it turns lands into artifacts (which get turned into whatever). Maybe some potential for a nice engine? Most likely casual-material, but who doesn't like a good engine.

[swoop]

Aluren + recurring artifact creature?

Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Tapatalk

[Doishy]

Compares unfavorably to Ideas Unbound, which sees no play.



Doomsday players would disagree with you there :P

[MaximumC]

Doomsday players would disagree with you there :P

My impression was that Doomsday was more about 1cc cantrips to find the combo and then winning with Mental Note into Unearth -> Maniac.

[Lemnear]

My impression was that Doomsday was more about 1cc cantrips to find the combo and then winning with Mental Note into Unearth -> Maniac.

Some people like to play "Tendrils - The Three Card Combo Version"

[dte]

Why trying to be vulnerable to gravehate while there is zero reason to do so?

[Lemnear]

Why trying to be vulnerable to gravehate while there is zero reason to do so?

You mean ... like hardcasting Maniac?

[rufus]

I like this line of experimentation, and I hope it brings us to BROKENTOWN eventually. This card probably is not it, though. Compares unfavorably to Ideas Unbound, which sees no play. ...

That's not so clear. Cathartic Reunion is clearly a superior card for dredge because the discard is more reliable, and happens before the draw does.

[Infinitium]

Creature - Dwarf Soldier
When ~ etb, exile target creature an opponent controls until ~ ltb.
1/3

Hey, Soldiers might actually have enough Ok creatures between this and the conspiracy ones to build a half-decent stompy deck. Amusing.

[H]

http://i.imgur.com/dq7RVLr.png

Perhaps in Modern with things like Ichor Wellspring? Goofy and probably not good, but could be funny none-the-less.

[dte]

You mean ... like hardcasting Maniac?

Yes, either hardcasting LM or playing ToA.

[rufus]

Hey, Soldiers might actually have enough Ok creatures between this and the conspiracy ones to build a half-decent stompy deck. Amusing.

It's a decent card, but stompy wants proactive effects that can swing the game before the opponent gets on the board.

[MaximumC]

http://i.imgur.com/dq7RVLr.png

Perhaps in Modern with things like Ichor Wellspring? Goofy and probably not good, but could be funny none-the-less.

Nice crappy Arcbound Ravager you've got there, brah.

I guess you can stop running Extruder and Dwarven Weaponsmith now, though. The long nightmare is over.


It's a decent card, but stompy wants proactive effects that can swing the game before the opponent gets on the board.

He's a got a bigger butt than Banisher Priest and is easier to cast than that or Fiend Hunter. A Good Card.

Not Legacy playable, no, but A Good Card.

[Lemnear]

With this seemingly being the last day before the final and complete spoiler, did you guys see Legacy relevent cards which you would like to test?

[H]

Nice crappy Arcbound Ravager you've got there, brah.

I guess you can stop running Extruder and Dwarven Weaponsmith now, though. The long nightmare is over.

Indeed, poor people rejoice!

(I thought about Ravager about 5 seconds after posting, but let my stupidity stand anyway.)

[Cire]

With this seemingly being the last day before the final and complete spoiler, did you guys see Legacy relevent cards which you would like to test?

I would guess with a varying degree of playability
Padeem, Consul Of Innovation (8Tezz?)
Paradoxical Outcome (Some sort of combo - doubtful)
Lost Legacy (SB card)
Chandra, Torch of Defiance (No clue)
Madcap Experiment (Something, I don't think Emperium quite makes Legacy cut, but I think this has some future in Legacy)
Aetherflux Reservoir (Storm or Life dec?)
Aetherworks Marvel (Energy) (Probably not)
Animation Module (With PWs or something - probably not)
Ghitapur Orrery (Stax?)
Inventors' Fair (Mud?)

[MaximumC]

With this seemingly being the last day before the final and complete spoiler, did you guys see Legacy relevent cards which you would like to test?

Sure.

http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/avatars/thumbnails/127/202/200/283/636090714587979120.png
Seems like a solid Disenchant variant for low-mana white decks. Also can be part of a Burning Wish sideboard.

http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/avatars/thumbnails/127/382/200/283/636094450978013750.png
Any time a card says "put X into play" without paying for it, there's possible shenanigans. 4 mana is just on the cusp of what might be playable. Is it time for Surprise Deployment.dec at last?

http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/avatars/thumbnails/126/853/200/283/636086892148834361.png
A fine Annul variant if you're more worried about Eldrazi than Oath / Enchantress.

http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/avatars/thumbnails/126/908/200/283/636088014231262755.png
This has "VINTAGE ENGINE" written all over it. Gush for Moxen? Yes, please. People are already testing it and calling it the second coming of Mind's Desire.

http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/avatars/thumbnails/126/892/200/283/636087525523092039.png
Combo with anything that prevents damage for a 4 mana Tinker. Card is nutso.

http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/avatars/thumbnails/126/912/200/283/636088383520063047.png
Tendrils of Agony 2.0 -- NOW WITH ARTIFACT SYNERGY!

http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/avatars/thumbnails/126/832/200/283/636086133838387248.png
Shops and MUD have a new replacement for Uba Mask yaaaaay

[(nameless one)]

I don't get why people are raving over Madcap Experiment. Shape Anew already exists.

[Lemnear]

I don't get why people are raving over Madcap Experiment. Shape Anew already exists.

Because you have a 100% chance to hit the card you want?

[Cire]

Because you have a 100% chance to hit the card you want?

No - that's not it - since they are both random in that they reveal cards until you reveal an artifact. It's just with emprium its a 1 card combo or a 2 card combo using cheap cards while shape anew requires you to always be a two card combo usually requiring you to play cards that produce artifact or become artifacts.

[MaximumC]

No - that's not it - since they are both random in that they reveal cards until you reveal an artifact. It's just with emprium its a 1 card combo or a 2 card combo using cheap cards while shape anew requires you to always be a two card combo usually requiring you to play cards that produce artifact or become artifacts.

It's a question of how badly you want to warp your deck.

Shape Anew requires that you run cards whose only purpose in life is to create artifact tokens. Those are, by and large, not great cards.

Madcap requires that you run cards that give you protection from Red or give you spells Lifelink or let you stop damage from a Sorcery. That's a waaaaay less deck-warping requirement.

EDIT: And, yes, Emperion is a one-card combo, but I really have my doubts about whether a 4 mana 8/8 without evasion or protection is playable. I mean, we don't see Kalonian Hydra tearing up the tables, do we?

[Cire]

It's a question of how badly you want to warp your deck.

Shape Anew requires that you run cards whose only purpose in life is to create artifact tokens. Those are, by and large, not great cards.

Madcap requires that you run cards that give you protection from Red or give you spells Lifelink or let you stop damage from a Sorcery. That's a waaaaay less deck-warping requirement.

EDIT: And, yes, Emperion is a one-card combo, but I really have my doubts about whether a 4 mana 8/8 without evasion or protection is playable. I mean, we don't see Kalonian Hydra tearing up the tables, do we?

Agreed on all counts.

[ReAnimator]

http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/avatars/thumbnails/127/382/200/283/636094450978013750.png
Any time a card says "put X into play" without paying for it, there's possible shenanigans. 4 mana is just on the cusp of what might be playable. Is it time for Surprise Deployment.dec at last?

Argivian Restoration...

[MaximumC]

Argivian Restoration...

...yeah, and? Restoration is also a good card. They both do a Broken Thing. This version is even sexier because it's easier to cast.

[rufus]

With this seemingly being the last day before the final and complete spoiler, did you guys see Legacy relevent cards which you would like to test?

People have mentioned a bunch of cards already. Some others that have potential..

Wispweaver Angel - combo piece
Torrential Gearhulk - combo piece
Morbid Curiosity - combo engine
Dubious Challenge - combo card
Ovalchase Daredevil - squee alternative
Bomat Courier - burn/sligh card.
Panharmonicon - combo piece
Combustible gearhulk - big red

[joven]

I don't get why people are raving over Madcap Experiment. Shape Anew already exists.

4+4 = 8 ?
Also, Madcap Experiment doesn't need an artifact in the first place, which you would need to get from a nonartifact card.
Shape Anew is somewhat problematic, you need some Clue- or Thopter generators or similar.
Madcap Experiment + Platinum Emperion could be interesting against some decks without Swords to Plowshares (e.g. Elves).

[Captain Hammer]

Emperion is a one-card combo, but I really have my doubts about whether a 4 mana 8/8 without evasion or protection is playable. I mean, we don't see Kalonian Hydra tearing up the tables, do we?

Casting costs matter.

If Kalonian Hydra costed 2GG instead of 3GG, it would see a ton of play.

If Madcap Experiment costed 3RR instead of 2RR, no one would be talking about it right now

And if Tarmogoyf/Dark Confidant/Young Pyromancer/Stoneforge Mystic/Snapcaster Mage costed 2X instead of 1X, none of them would have found their way into any eternal decks.

[Lemnear]

No - that's not it - since they are both random in that they reveal cards until you reveal an artifact. It's just with emprium its a 1 card combo or a 2 card combo using cheap cards while shape anew requires you to always be a two card combo usually requiring you to play cards that produce artifact or become artifacts.

Madcap is NOT random if you just run ONE type of Artifact in your deck. With that being said. I don't think P.E. is the card we should look at. I like Sphinx of the Steel Wind much more

[MaximumC]

Madcap is NOT random if you just run ONE type of Artifact in your deck. With that being said. I don't think P.E. is the card we should look at. I like Sphinx of the Steel Wind much more

Me too. I look at the classic "Big Three" Tinker targets:

1. Blightsteel Collossus (for winning NOW)
2. Sphinx of the Steel Wind (for crushing aggro decks)
3. Inkwell Levithan (for crushing control decks)


Casting costs matter.

If Kalonian Hydra costed 2GG instead of 3GG, it would see a ton of play.

If Madcap Experiment costed 3RR instead of 2RR, no one would be talking about it right now

And if Tarmogoyf/Dark Confidant/Young Pyromancer/Stoneforge Mystic/Snapcaster Mage costed 2X instead of 1X, none of them would have found their way into any eternal decks.

Fair enough. Casting cost does matter. Even so, would this see play:

3B Amazaballs Golem
8/8
If this creature is removed from play immediately upon its entering the battlefield, you lose the game.
Your life total cannot change.

[Captain Hammer]

Madcap is NOT random if you just run ONE type of Artifact in your deck. With that being said. I don't think P.E. is the card we should look at. I like Sphinx of the Steel Wind much more

I like Sphinx, but I'm actually more partial to...
4 Combustible Gearhulk
4 Wurmcoil Engine
4 Blightsteel Colossus

...in a Big Red inspired configuration myself.

http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?31000-Deck-Madcap-Sneak-Attack

[Cire]

Madcap is NOT random if you just run ONE type of Artifact in your deck. With that being said. I don't think P.E. is the card we should look at. I like Sphinx of the Steel Wind much more

Neither is Shape Anew if you only run one artifact in your deck.

That said, i've been arguing for Blightsteel Collossus, Sphinx of the Steel Wind, Inkwell Levithan split in the Madcap tinker thread. Still don't think its better than just running S&T, etc.




3B Amazaballs Golem
8/8
If this creature is removed from play immediately upon its entering the battlefield, you lose the game.
Your life total cannot change.

Why would you lose the game. . . it's not platinum angel

. . . it's more like this:

3R Amazaballs Golem
Artifact - Creature
Your life total cannot change (a.k.a. you can't cast FOW or use fetches; plus is that you can't take damage or lose life. Poison still kills you, and decking still makes you lose.)
You can't play any other artifacts in your deck
8/8

[MaximumC]

Neither is Shape Anew if you only run one artifact in your deck.

That said, i've been arguing for Blightsteel Collossus, Sphinx of the Steel Wind, Inkwell Levithan split in the Madcap tinker thread. Still don't think its better than just running S&T, etc.



Why would you lose the game. . . it's not platinum angel

. . . it's more like this:

3R Amazaballs Golem
Artifact - Creature
Your life total cannot change (a.k.a. you can't cast FOW or use fetches; plus is that you can't take damage or lose life. Poison still kills you, and decking still makes you lose.)
You can't play any other artifacts in your deck
8/8

Sorry what I meant was flashing in a containment priest makes you lose the game

[(nameless one)]

It's a question of how badly you want to warp your deck.

Shape Anew requires that you run cards whose only purpose in life is to create artifact tokens. Those are, by and large, not great cards.

Madcap requires that you run cards that give you protection from Red or give you spells Lifelink or let you stop damage from a Sorcery. That's a waaaaay less deck-warping requirement.

EDIT: And, yes, Emperion is a one-card combo, but I really have my doubts about whether a 4 mana 8/8 without evasion or protection is playable. I mean, we don't see Kalonian Hydra tearing up the tables, do we?

You can run Mishra's Factory and Shape Anew it to Blightsteel Colossus

[Captain Hammer]

You can run Mishra's Factory and Shape Anew it to Blightsteel Colossus

That costs 5 mana, requires a 2 card combo, and requires you to sacrifice your factory in order to pull off. Shape Anew getting FoWed causes you a huge tempo loss due to the required sacrifice of your Mishra's Factory.

Shape Anew is very similar to
Polymorph
Proteus Staff

And none of those three are anywhere near as good as Madcap Experiment.

Despite this, I've seen Polymorph + Proteus Staff decks put up top 8s at LGS's every now and then. Madcap being signficantly superior (costing one less mana, not being a two card combo) makes it worth looking at.

[HdH_Cthulhu]

Neither is Shape Anew if you only run one artifact in your deck.

That said, i've been arguing for Blightsteel Collossus, Sphinx of the Steel Wind, Inkwell Levithan split in the Madcap tinker thread. Still don't think its better than just running S&T, etc.



Why would you lose the game. . . it's not platinum angel

. . . it's more like this:

3R Amazaballs Golem
Artifact - Creature
Your life total cannot change (a.k.a. you can't cast FOW or use fetches; plus is that you can't take damage or lose life. Poison still kills you, and decking still makes you lose.)
You can't play any other artifacts in your deck
8/8

Nitpick: You have to play 1-2 dead cards in your deck and if you draw them this is also a dead card.

[rufus]

That costs 5 mana, requires a 2 card combo, and requires you to sacrifice your factory in order to pull off. Shape Anew getting FoWed causes you a huge tempo loss due to the required sacrifice of your Mishra's Factory. ...

Yeah, there are better cards to combine with Shape Anew like Thraben Inspector or Daretti, Ingenious Iconoclast. IMO the issue with Madcap Experiment (and Shape Anew) as a combo play is really that they haven't printed the artifact equivalent of Griselbrand yet. (Well, Gleemax but that's not competition legal.)

[ReAnimator]

...yeah, and? Restoration is also a good card. They both do a Broken Thing. This version is even sexier because it's easier to cast.

Seriously? Like a card that has been around for 20 years and has seen literal zero play, and you think that now that the casting cost has gone from 2UU to 3W that it's playable and broken, and the burden of proof is on ME? GTFO

[apple713]

Seriously? Like a card that has been around for 20 years and has seen literal zero play, and you think that now that the casting cost has gone from 2UU to 3W that it's playable and broken, and the burden of proof is on ME? GTFO

First of all, the card isnt broken. It has potential but has nit realized that potential yet. Show and tell was a 1$ rare until cards like emrakul and griselbrand were printed. Even then show and tell alone was not enough. The deck became a deck mainly bevause it had both, show and tell and sneak attack so that it could consistently do broken things with the creatures.

Now agrivan restoration never saw play for a few reasons. It never had an artifact worth devoting a strategy to and it never had a counter part like sneak attack to increase consistency. Now it has the counterpart with the white card but i still dont think there is an artifact good enough for these cards to take off. When an artifact as good as emrakul / griselbrand is printed then there is a chance these cards could form a deck. Until then it will always be inferior to show and tell decks.

Also of you are targeting creatures you might as well play reanimator.

[Finn]

Even Trash for Treasure is not nearly good enough when Goblin Welder exists. Refurbish is rubbish. Four mana may as well be 4 million.

[bruizar]

First of all, the card isnt broken. It has potential but has nit realized that potential yet. Show and tell was a 1$ rare until cards like emrakul and griselbrand were printed. Even then show and tell alone was not enough. The deck became a deck mainly bevause it had both, show and tell and sneak attack so that it could consistently do broken things with the creatures.

Now agrivan restoration never saw play for a few reasons. It never had an artifact worth devoting a strategy to and it never had a counter part like sneak attack to increase consistency. Now it has the counterpart with the white card but i still dont think there is an artifact good enough for these cards to take off. When an artifact as good as emrakul / griselbrand is printed then there is a chance these cards could form a deck. Until then it will always be inferior to show and tell decks.

Also of you are targeting creatures you might as well play reanimator.

Argivisn restoration pales next to replenish

[T-101]

Restoration is arguably hardest to cast at 3W because it requires white mana. I assume a deck doing that is probably running cantrips and perhaps FoW.

Anywho, not a lot in Kaladesh for Legacy.

The two most intriguing are Aetherwork Marvel, and the storm artifact for gaining life.

The one mana disenchant is probably good somewhere.

The Annul that hits Eldrazi is a maybe if there's Eldrazi in the meta.

After that, maybe Madcap? It's gotta be able to stop Swords and power through counter magic, but it could get there... Maybe... Not likely.

Most of the financial talk has been centered on the Masterpieces tanking the value of the other cards, so it wouldn't be very costly to pick up a bunch of the maybes. No rush though, as I don't think anything will be tier 1 must-have.

[bruizar]

Thus is what i bought, all foil. Still missing some cards. Many i bought because i thought they were too cheap
3x Skysovereign, Consul Flagship (Kaladesh)
4x Toolcraft Exemplar
4x Paradoxical Outcome
4x Bomat Courier
4x Fleetwheel Cruiser
4x Ghirapur Orrery
4x Smuggler's Copter
4x Madcap Experiment
4x Animation Module
3x Inventors' Fair
4x Ovalchase Daredevil
4x Inventor's Goggles
1x Lotus Petal invention

Toolcraft Exemplar works great with skyship btw. Bought the vehicles because i think we probably underestimate them but didnt know which one will spike. Batterskull / living weapon is most similar to vehicle.

[Barook]

Thus is what i bought, all foil. Still missing some cards. Many i bought because i thought they were too cheap
3x Skysovereign, Consul Flagship (Kaladesh)
4x Toolcraft Exemplar
4x Paradoxical Outcome
4x Bomat Courier
4x Fleetwheel Cruiser
4x Ghirapur Orrery
4x Smuggler's Copter
4x Madcap Experiment
4x Animation Module
3x Inventors' Fair
4x Ovalchase Daredevil
4x Inventor's Goggles
1x Lotus Petal invention

Toolcraft Exemplar works great with skyship btw. Bought the vehicles because i think we probably underestimate them but didnt know which one will spike. Batterskull / living weapon is most similar to vehicle.
Batterskull is good mainly due to its enabler, SFM.

Vehicles are probably good enough for Standard and maybe Modern if all planets align, but I don't think we've seen Eternal material yet. The Lootcopter is pretty close, but I'm not convinced that it's going to find a home. There's also the instant speed Terminus angle that makes vehicles much worse than equipment.

[HdH_Cthulhu]

Well now with the trend that they make busted D&T creatures one can assume they print the vehicle SFM.

[Ace/Homebrew]

Vehicles are probably good enough for Standard and maybe Modern if all planets align, but I don't think we've seen Eternal material yet.
A well known local shops player is really excited for Skysovereign, Consul Flagship and Fleetwheel Cruiser. I think he was testing 3 Cruisers and 1 Flagship main deck with an Inventor's Fair in the board for the mirror.

Since vehicles aren't creatures, your Oath matchup is improved. He had a lot other reasons why they're going to be great.

[MaximumC]

A well known local shops player is really excited for Skysovereign, Consul Flagship and Fleetwheel Cruiser. I think he was testing 3 Cruisers main with a Flagship in the board.

Since vehicles aren't creatures, your Oath matchup is improved. He had a lot other reasons why they're going to be great.

Right, because they are so great without any creatures on board. So far, all the CARS seem like riffs on equipment. Only the mega broken ones see any play.

[Ace/Homebrew]

Right, because they are so great without any creatures on board.
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/aEtm69mLK6w/hqdefault.jpg

Crew 2 hmmm... What could shops possibly use to drive those things?
Mishra's Factory maybe?

Pretty sure they play Though-Knot Seer too... and Revoker and Golem and Ravager.


Edit:
In fact, Cruiser having trample seems pretty relevant in a deck that uses Ravager.

[phonics]

Thus is what i bought, all foil. Still missing some cards. Many i bought because i thought they were too cheap
3x Skysovereign, Consul Flagship (Kaladesh)
4x Toolcraft Exemplar
4x Paradoxical Outcome
4x Bomat Courier
4x Fleetwheel Cruiser
4x Ghirapur Orrery
4x Smuggler's Copter
4x Madcap Experiment
4x Animation Module
3x Inventors' Fair
4x Ovalchase Daredevil
4x Inventor's Goggles
1x Lotus Petal invention

Toolcraft Exemplar works great with skyship btw. Bought the vehicles because i think we probably underestimate them but didnt know which one will spike. Batterskull / living weapon is most similar to vehicle.

Whats up with Inventor's Goggles?

[Echelon]

This just struck me - what's the logic behind a train driving a car..? You can use the Arcadara Express to crew an Ovalchase Dragster. Or a Smuggler's Copter. Yes, a train flying an inconspicuous helicopter. Hmm. :rolleyes:

The mechanic has some cool flavour-potential, but can (flavorwise) also just be downright stupid when you decide to take things as literal as you can.

[Dice_Box]

This just struck me - what's the logic behind a train driving a car..? You can use the Arcadara Express to crew an Ovalchase Dragster. Or a Smuggler's Copter. Yes, a train flying an inconspicuous helicopter. Hmm. :rolleyes:

The mechanic has some cool flavour-potential, but can (flavorwise) also just be downright stupid when you decide to take things as literal as you can.
We are talking about a group of magical people throwing fire and mind bullets around while having the power of the show "Sliders". Taking that literally is your first mistake.

[Echelon]

We are talking about a group of magical people throwing fire and mind bullets around while having the power of the show "Sliders". Taking that literally is your first mistake.

Yeah... I stay as far away from the lore as I can (and reading that I'm glad that I do)... And I liked Sliders when I was a kid! Lol!

[bruizar]

Whats up with Inventor's Goggles?


Not much other than it was dirt cheap. When artificers are involved I always think of Goblin Welder, SFM and Auriok Salvagers. Being able to protect Welder better has some uses, but nothjng competitive since it still wont survive a bolt. I just wanted goggles in my collection and for 1.30 i could get the playset :-)

[bruizar]

A well known local shops player is really excited for Skysovereign, Consul Flagship and Fleetwheel Cruiser. I think he was testing 3 Cruisers main with a Flagship in the board.

Since vehicles aren't creatures, your Oath matchup is improved. He had a lot other reasons why they're going to be great.

Skysovereign triggers on attack , not combat resolution. That's pretty powerful. I believe you can go to your attack step, make exemplar a 3/2, then crew it before declaring attackers, and shoot something. The 3 damage lost is translated to the ability of skyship. Smugglers copter is a good way to get otherwise weak creatures like gaddock teeg or dark confidant into the red zone while drawing into card quality. Copter triggers on attack AND defense, which is sweet.

A famous vintage player stated that orrery will redefine vintage and stated that it is likely that metalwork colossus will be the only creature played by workshop decks. The rest will be ensnaring bridges, orrerys, crucicbles ghostquarters and wastelands to turbo lock someone.

[Captain Hammer]

How is metalwork colossus going to win through ensnaring bridge? Bridge locks stax out as well.

[Lemnear]

How is metalwork colossus going to win through ensnaring bridge? Bridge locks stax out as well.

Welder? Smokestack?

[Dice_Box]

Triskelion.

[rufus]

Right, because they are so great without any creatures on board. So far, all the CARS seem like riffs on equipment. Only the mega broken ones see any play.

One of the things I was originally wondering about is whether the vehicles could be 'tap outlets' for Pain Seer and Disciple of Deceit, but I'm not sure any of the vehicles (or inspired cards) are good enough to justify that.

[H]

One of the things I was originally wondering about is whether the vehicles could be 'tap outlets' for Pain Seer and Disciple of Deceit, but I'm not sure any of the vehicles (or inspired cards) are good enough to justify that.

There is also an abusability with cards that have the Untap Symbol in their cost as well, like Order of Whiteclay since you can use the Crew ability as many times as you'd like. Problem is that none of them are really worth it, I don't think. (Actually, Duergar Mine-Captain is a Dwarf! They knew, they knew...)

[Zombie]

There is also an abusability with cards that have the Untap Symbol in their cost as well, like Order of Whiteclay since you can use the Crew ability as many times as you'd like. Problem is that none of them are really worth it, I don't think. (Actually, Duergar Mine-Captain is a Dwarf! They knew, they knew...)

http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=157210&type=card

[Griselpuff]

Full spoiler is up: http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/card-image-gallery/kaladesh

Looks like Shops has gotten some tools, but Legacy didn't get much, only fringe playables (Blossoming Defense, Combustible Gearhulk, Chandra)

Anybody see anything that I might have missed? SOI had Stormchaser Mage and Prized Amalgam, while EMN had Bedlam Reveler and Thalia. I was hoping for something along those lines at the very least :(

[Darkenslight]

Full spoiler is up: http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/card-image-gallery/kaladesh

Looks like Shops has gotten some tools, but Legacy didn't get much, only fringe playables (Blossoming Defense, Combustible Gearhulk, Chandra)

Anybody see anything that I might have missed? SOI had Stormchaser Mage and Prized Amalgam, while EMN had Bedlam Reveler and Thalia. I was hoping for something along those lines at the very least :(

The only thing that comes close is

http://media.wizards.com/2016/bVvMNuiu2i_KLD/en_ErR7ZA4YHN.png

And that's niche at best. It's a Goyf blocker for Affinity, and maybe something else, as it's a theoretical UU 5/6 with no drawback, and we know those creatures are potentially powerful (see also: Gurmag Angler.)

EDIT: there's also

http://media.wizards.com/2016/bVvMNuiu2i_KLD/en_HjYa2D8roa.png

that has applications in all formats. draw-fixing plus potential discard? At one mana, that seems highly relevant.

[Lemnear]

http://media.wizards.com/2016/bVvMNuiu2i_KLD/en_HjYa2D8roa.png

that has applications in all formats. draw-fixing plus potential discard? At one mana, that seems highly relevant.

http://static.starcitygames.com/sales/cardscans/MTG/ULG/en/nonfoil/Ostracize.jpg

17 years of black powercreep lol

[Ace/Homebrew]

17 years of black powercreep lol
Yeah, new card is unlikely to do much outside of Standard.

I believe Obstinate Baloth is fairly prevalent as a sideboard card in Modern.

[rufus]

Hmm... is there a Necrologia combo with Fateful Showdown?

[square_two]

Hmm... is there a Necrologia combo with Fateful Showdown?

Fateful does appear to be the first instant way to deal damage to opponent equal to number of cards in your hand. Spiraling Embers is the sorcery version.

Could Showdown end in a draw due to opp having 0 or less life, and you also milling yourself out after resolution?

[rufus]

...

Could Showdown end in a draw due to opp having 0 or less life, and you also milling yourself out after resolution?

Yes. Both are state-based and happen simultaneously.

[Richard Cheese]

http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/avatars/127/506/636096196341165014.png

Whenever Veteran Motorist crews a vehicle, if that vehicle is a gold 1999 Buick Century, it gets +5/+5 and deals damage equal to it's power to another random creature.

"Going to pick up my prescriptions!"

[rufus]

Whenever Veteran Motorist crews a vehicle, if that vehicle is a gold 1999 Buick Century, it gets +5/+5 and deals damage equal to it's power to another random creature.


Motorist is another one of those cards that's good, but not legacy good.

[ahg113]

http://static.starcitygames.com/sales/cardscans/MTG/ULG/en/nonfoil/Ostracize.jpg

17 years of black powercreep lol

That's just a common. You gotta grab something spicy, like an uncommon.

http://static.starcitygames.com/sales/cardscans/MTG/UDS/en/nonfoil/Encroach.jpg

[PirateKing]

http://i.imgur.com/3XUYbpI.png

This is all I see...

[MaximumC]

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/aEtm69mLK6w/hqdefault.jpg

Crew 2 hmmm... What could shops possibly use to drive those things?
Mishra's Factory maybe?

Pretty sure they play Though-Knot Seer too... and Revoker and Golem and Ravager.


Edit:
In fact, Cruiser having trample seems pretty relevant in a deck that uses Ravager.

http://i853.photobucket.com/albums/ab96/cagealot/nictiffcaption.jpg

So, I'm using 1 mana and 1 of my lands each turn to pay to re-equip a Car each turn instead of just using equipment I have to pay for once?

Or, alternatively, I'm scaling back the damage I deal from TKS or Golem or Ravager because I like Cars?

[square_two]

http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/avatars/127/506/636096196341165014.png

Whenever Veteran Motorist crews a vehicle, if that vehicle is a gold 1999 Buick Century, it gets +5/+5 and deals damage equal to it's power to another random creature.

"Going to pick up my prescriptions!"

Does it strike anyone else odd for a RW 2-drop creature to have ETB scry 2? Since when is Boros busy scrying and scultping their draws?

[TsumiBand]

Does it strike anyone else odd for a RW 2-drop creature to have ETB scry 2? Since when is Boros busy scrying and scultping their draws?

Well, RW is not always Boros, but every color has access to scry. Something something Magma Jet, something.

[Dice_Box]

Srcy is evergreen now. It was a matter of time until it branched out.

[Darkenslight]

Does it strike anyone else odd for a RW 2-drop creature to have ETB scry 2? Since when is Boros busy scrying and scultping their draws?

He can predict what's coming up on the course. Hence, Scry 2.

[Richard Cheese]

He can predict what's coming up on the course. Hence, Scry 2.

He's racing, and pacing, and plotting the course.

[kirkusjones]

He's racing, and pacing, and plotting the course.

Bowel shaking earthquakes of doubt and remorse assail him, impale him with monster truck force.

[Ace/Homebrew]

So, I'm using 1 mana and 1 of my lands each turn to pay to re-equip a Car each turn instead of just using equipment I have to pay for once?

Or, alternatively, I'm scaling back the damage I deal from TKS or Golem or Ravager because I like Cars?
See! I knew you'd get it.

https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRg4O6h_WVpthWM2iMuXgNcMBKrveVgh3igT8Keq0kNzujrp4Wz

Even Nick Cage likes driving in cars...

[Lemnear]

See! I knew you'd get it.

https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRg4O6h_WVpthWM2iMuXgNcMBKrveVgh3igT8Keq0kNzujrp4Wz

Even Nick Cage likes driving in cars...

http://cdn.inquisitr.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/Nicolas-Cage-Says-No-To-Ghost-Rider-Sequel.jpg

Nick Cage - "Dafuq you saying??"

[ahg113]

This Nic Cage trolling is some of the best work done here. Good work

http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/theflophouse/images/7/78/Nicolas_cage_02.jpg/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/270?cb=20111108043917

[Lemnear]

http://67.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lzk1docVX91rpc2bso3_400.jpg

Ikr

[kirkusjones]

http://67.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lzk1docVX91rpc2bso3_400.jpg

Ikr

God I wish she was legal in EDH so I could play that alter.

[Infinitium]

That self-reanimating robot (at instant speed no less mind you) might help give affinity some game versus Terminus along with Disciple of the Vault and Ravager. Night Market Lookout kind of stands out as undercosted for the ping effect; potential combo material perchance? New Chandra is the best one yet and possibly outmuscles Koth, albeit I struggle to think of a deck that wants her besides big red. Morbid Curiosity looks like a potential engine what with all the popular alternative casting costs in legacy, probably not though. What else? White and Blue Gearhulk can possibly see play in control decks. Orrery looks very interesting in Stax decks what with Crucible/Wasteland, taxers and Trinisphere Shenanigans. The 4cc combo artifacts probably aren't, amusing as the thoughts of turn 2 kills with SenseiSensei might be. Monobrown non-metalworker combo might just be novel enough to work somehow though, idk.

[Chatto]

He's racing, and pacing, and plotting the course.

Classic race-car, yaya :smile:

[supremePINEAPPLE]

He's racing, and pacing, and plotting the course.They're gonna be in Denver in October, gotta go get my mid-90's on.

[Ace/Homebrew]

This Nic Cage trolling is some of the best work done here. Good work

Remember a time when 'trolling' was called 'flaming'?

http://www.hotflick.net/flicks/2007_Ghost_Rider/tn300/007GSR_Nicolas_Cage_078.jpg

Nicholas Cage remembers.

[phonics]

Remember a time when 'trolling' was called 'flaming'?

http://www.hotflick.net/flicks/2007_Ghost_Rider/tn300/007GSR_Nicolas_Cage_078.jpg

Nicholas Cage remembers.

They were never the same thing.

[Ace/Homebrew]

Nick Cage stopped hearing about one as he started to hear about the other. Sure they're different, the joke doesn't work if you take it too seriously. Kinda like Thought-Knot Seer driving a Fleetwheel Cruiser the turn it comes into play.

http://www.standbyformindcontrol.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/cage.jpg

[Captain Hammer]

Isochron Scepter + Dramatic Reversal = Infinite Mana and tons of other shenanigans

Both cards are cheaply costed for their effect and have applications aside from comboing with each other.

[T-101]

Isochron Scepter + Dramatic Reversal = Infinite Mana and tons of other shenanigans

Both cards are cheaply costed for their effect and have applications aside from comboing with each other.

Reversal untaps nonlands. So you'd need nonland stuff that taps for 3 or more to get there.

[Darkenslight]

Reversal untaps nonlands. So you'd need nonland stuff that taps for 3 or more to get there.

Thran Dynamo/Grim Monolith say hi. As does the everloving Gilded Lotus.

[civet five]

Hmm... is there a Necrologia combo with Fateful Showdown?

Maybe, but its 5BBRR, which I don't see as better than current Storm kills with AN/PiF, and no other deck can reliably generate that kind of mana quickly.

[Captain Hammer]

Reversal untaps nonlands. So you'd need nonland stuff that taps for 3 or more to get there.

Oops, brain fart on my part. The combo is still feasible with artifact mana, but Reversal isn't as ridiculously good as I initially thought it was.


I'm going to keep my combo eye on Aetherworks Marvel. It's definitely going to have an impact on standard. If they print better energy generators, then it may break into other formats as well.

But overall, Aetherflux Reservoir, Madcap Experiment, Chandra and Combustible Gearwork are tied as my favorite new cards in the set.

[rufus]

Maybe, but its 5BBRR, which I don't see as better than current Storm kills with AN/PiF, and no other deck can reliably generate that kind of mana quickly.

The idea would be to hit ESG/SSG mana off the Necrologia cards so that it's only 3BB to go off.

[rufus]

Oops, brain fart on my part. The combo is still feasible with artifact mana, but Reversal isn't as ridiculously good as I initially thought it was.
..

It also works with creature mana. 2 cards for infinite mana isn't really worth playing in legacy though.

[Captain Hammer]

2 cards for infinite mana isn't really worth playing in legacy though.

Tell that to Food Chain.

There might still be a tier 3 deck out there for this combo, One packing lots of artifact mana, factories, mutavaults, both this combo and proteus staff/polymorph into emrakul, maybe with staff of domination as an alternate win condition. Probably not though.

[Poron]

Basalth Monolith and Power Artifact bring you there the same.

This is much better though it gives also Vigilance to your army and untaps colored mana via Moxs and Signet/Talismans. You can also start playing pesky permanents with abilities on the tap..

It's definitly a good card

[rufus]

...
[Dramatic Reversal is] definitly a good card

I doubt that copying it with Isochron scepter is the best way to use it -- it seems more like a card that's used for a one-time shot of mana, and maybe flashed back. Maybe in a deck with lots of cards that can tap for more than 2 mana like Metalworker,Grim Monolith,Basalt Monolith and non-land mana sources like Mox Opal, Mox Diamond or Chrome Mox.

[Poron]

I doubt that copying it with Isochron scepter is the best way to use it -- it seems more like a card that's used for a one-time shot of mana, and maybe flashed back. Maybe in a deck with lots of cards that can tap for more than 2 mana like Metalworker,Grim Monolith,Basalt Monolith and non-land mana sources like Mox Opal, Mox Diamond or Chrome Mox.

Why not you can also Scepter a Shrapnel Blast and sacrifice Daretti 2.0 token to it every turn EOT.

In an artifact deck there are so many tricks possible. Also Impulse would be great for its card Advantage.

With Tezzeret and that you dig 10 cards a turn and keep 3

[rufus]

Why not you can also Scepter a Shrapnel Blast and sacrifice Daretti 2.0 token to it every turn EOT.
...

I think scepter + instant card + mana is big enough as an investment that you want something strong enough to establish a board presence and take over the game without adding any other pieces. Scepter + Dramatic Reversal might be decent as a backup option, but it's no compelling as a primary game plan.

[Poron]

I think scepter + instant card + mana is big enough as an investment that you want something strong enough to establish a board presence and take over the game without adding any other pieces. Scepter + Dramatic Reversal might be decent as a backup option, but it's no compelling as a primary game plan.

definitly not but versatility is its strenght.

You need CA, imprint Impulse or Strategic Planning.
You need removal imprint Blast or Incinerate or whatever.
You have a Metalworker on the field, imprint Dramatic Reversal.

[Lemnear]

You have a Metalworker on the field, imprint Dramatic Reversal.

http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=50162&type=card

/topic

[bruizar]

http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=50162&type=card

/topic

http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/avatars/126/902/636087753207748373.png

whooop

[Lemnear]

Touché

[Echelon]

http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/avatars/126/902/636087753207748373.png

whooop

I was just thinking (and I'm probably the 27th person to mention this by now), but it can also tutor for Crucible of Worlds, after which you can reuse it every single turn. Seems pretty cool to me.

[HdH_Cthulhu]

I was just thinking (and I'm probably the 27th person to mention this by now), but it can also tutor for Crucible of Worlds, after which you can reuse it every single turn. Seems pretty cool to me.

Cool for edh where you actually have 9+ mana so you can play the stuff you search for!

[Echelon]

Or in MUD so you can tutor Crucible, Metalworker, Staff of Dominance with a single card? I don't know if the manabase can support 1 or 2 of these, but it seems like a small cost to pay for a rather big upside. Perhaps too durdly?

[bruizar]

Anyone else impressed by Harsh Scrutiny at the prerelease?

[Darkenslight]

Anyone else impressed by Harsh Scrutiny at the prerelease?

Yes.

In addition, Aetherworks Marvel may actually be good enough to see play in more than Limited and Commander.

[rufus]

Yes.

In addition, Aetherworks Marvel may actually be good enough to see play in more than Limited and Commander.

Thing is you have to have an energy economy if you want to go off when you drop it, so the extra costs are pretty big.

[bruizar]

Yes.

In addition, Aetherworks Marvel may actually be good enough to see play in more than Limited and Commander.

I played WBr with a RU dual to activate blue puzzleknot and won the whole thing. I played both Aetherworks Marvel and Harsh Scrutiny. No bombs besides black gearbulk and bomat bazaar barge. Midnight Oil was insane in the prerelease, but I felt that Harsh Scrutiny was one of the silent winners of the deck

[jrsthethird]

Not sure if anyone addressed this when Depala was spoiled, but WOTC has been listening (http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/making-magic/do-you-feel-lucky-aetherpunk-part-1-2016-09-26) to RW Commander players:


One of the complaints I've been getting lately is that too many red-white commanders play into the same deck archetype—aggro beatdown. Depala is a completely different deck for the Commander Boros players out there.

[H]

Not sure if anyone addressed this when Depala was spoiled, but WOTC has been listening (http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/making-magic/do-you-feel-lucky-aetherpunk-part-1-2016-09-26) to RW Commander players:

That is indeed nice. Hopefully they listen on other things too. Once the Vehicles cycle out of Standard (and become worthless) maybe I'll make a Depala deck. Don't forget we have a Commander set coming in 2 months too.