Kaladesh -or- When Kiran met Pia

[Ace/Homebrew]

First card for the new set has been spoiled:

http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/attachments/157/916/636078139404933380.jpg

Saheeli's Artistry :4::u::u:
Sorcery (Rare)
Choose one or both -
Create a token that is a copy of target
artifact
Create a token that is a copy of target
creature, except it's an artifact in addition
to its other types.

Looks like the Planeswalker character the set will be following is named Saheeli Rai.

[jam3sbob]

So we're creating stuff now instead of putting a copy of stuff into play.

[LarsLeif]

So we're creating stuff now instead of putting a copy of stuff into play.

Yes, this has already been confirmed: http://hopelessly-vorthosian.tumblr.com/post/148160939346/soon-the-template-for-creating-tokens-will-be

[MaximumC]

First card for the new set has been spoiled:

http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/attachments/157/916/636078139404933380.jpg

Saheeli's Artistry :4::u::u:
Sorcery (Rare)
Choose one or both -
Create a token that is a copy of target
artifact
Create a token that is a copy of target
creature, except it's an artifact in addition
to its other types.

Looks like the Planeswalker character the set will be following is named Saheeli Rai.

So it's a worse version of Clever Imposter or Phyrexian Metamorph with corner cases involving duplicating creatures with ETB abilities. Okay when you want to cast a new copy of Eternal Witness each turn for 6 manas.

[Lemnear]

The card likes to copy Sundering Titans and Sphinx of the Steel Winds

[MaximumC]

The card likes to copy Sundering Titans and Sphinx of the Steel Winds

But why not just use Metamorph

why

EDIT: OH because you can choose both I GET IT

EDIT 2: I can imagine better things to do than copying a Sundering Titan, though. How often do you need to kill three of every basic land?

[Lemnear]

But why not just use Metamorph

why

EDIT: OH because you can choose both I GET IT

EDIT 2: I can imagine better things to do than copying a Sundering Titan, though. How often do you need to kill three of every basic land?

You get TWO sundering titans if you copy one in play and if your,opponent tries to kill one, they lose their lands again

[Cire]

Some dumb ideas:

Lol - pay 7 - copy Lodestone Golem - make every non-artifact impossible to cast. :cool:
Master of Etherium - pay 6 - have at the very least 3 5/5's in play.
Precursor Golem - pay 6 - copy spell twice(?) - end up with 9 golems total?
Solemn Simulacrum?

[Lemnear]

Ashen Rider lol

[Cire]

Ashen Rider lol

You only get two copies of the same thing if it is a artifact creature (you could just copy an artifact and a creature though)

[Lemnear]

You only get two copies of the same thing if it is a artifact creature (you could just copy an artifact and a creature though)

Yeah, too late for me to post. X(

[rufus]

...
Precursor Golem - pay 6 - copy spell twice(?) - end up with 9 golems total?
...

13 total (you get two copies of each of the original tokens too)

Other silly stuff:
Filigree Angel gain 18 life.
Reaper King destroy 4 permanents

[bruizar]

Inching closer and closer to contraptions.

[Dice_Box]

No, no contraptions in this set. There will be Vehicles though.

[Ace/Homebrew]

New planeswalker/story details from the mothership.

Source. (http://magic.wizards.com/en/story/planeswalkers/dovin-baan)

Dovin Baan is a Vedalken 'Senior Inspector' for Kaladesh's World's Fair.


He turned to his powers as a Planeswalker and requested the aid of the Gatewatch: a group of other Planeswalkers whose oath to keep the planes of the Multiverse safe aligned with his own principles.

God DAMNIT! Damnit, damnit, damnit!
I was hopeful that we'd left the Gatewatch alone for a block...

Ahhhh damnit. :frown:


Edit:
Reading through a bit more, it looks like the 'establishment' on Kaladesh, of which Dovin Baan is a part, are the ones that killed (maybe?) Chandra's parents and caused her spark to ignite. I'm sure that will cause drama within the Avengers.
Humans and Elves confirmed on the plane. It appears Vedalken will be there, and it mentioned gremlins... Should that be assumed to be goblins?

[kirkusjones]

New planeswalker/story details from the mothership.

Source. (http://magic.wizards.com/en/story/planeswalkers/dovin-baan)

Dovin Baan is a Vedalken 'Senior Inspector' for Kaladesh's World's Fair.



God DAMNIT! Damnit, damnit, damnit!
I was hopeful that we'd left the Gatewatch alone for a block...

Ahhhh damnit. :frown:

So that means that it won't predate the ignition of Chandra's spark. Laaaame. So does this mean we get to look forward to each future set putting out the Gatewatch Signal and no more independent planes? I get that it's Chandra's home plane and all, but come on.

[H]

New planeswalker/story details from the mothership.

Source. (http://magic.wizards.com/en/story/planeswalkers/dovin-baan)

Dovin Baan is a Vedalken 'Senior Inspector' for Kaladesh's World's Fair.

The card will probably suck but I like that art. Maybe mono-Blue? Or UW? The art is so heavy on UR though, but why would would an inspector be Red?

[Ace/Homebrew]

The card will probably suck but I like that art. Maybe mono-Blue? Or UW? The art is so heavy on UR though, but why would would an inspector be Red?
Looks like the Vedalken were introduced by WotC to be the replacement for Merfolk on planes where 'not having legs' would complicate their involvement in the story. They started off mono-:u: but are :w:/:u: and :u:/:g: on Ravnica. On Alara they were :w::u::b:. So really Dovin Baan could be any combination of colors, as long as one of them is :u:...



Storyline guesses:
Dovin Baan gets word of some terrorists plotting against the World's Fair. He sends out the bat-signal and the Gatewatch come running. Turns out the leaders of the terrorist group are one, or both, of Chandra's parents. They reach out to Chandra who then convinces the Gatewatch that a regime-change is necessary, or she just works in secret to assist her folks.

Am I doing it right? I forgot to work the Eldrazi in there somehow... :rolleyes:

[kirkusjones]

An artifact matters set may point more to the Phyrexians. Maybe during the course of his inspections he finds some of that greasy Phyrexian oil.

[H]

Looks like the Vedalken were introduced by WotC to be the replacement for Merfolk on planes where 'not having legs' would complicate their involvement in the story. They started off mono-:u: but are :w:/:u: and :u:/:g: on Ravnica. On Alara they were :w::u::b:. So really Dovin Baan could be any combination of colors, as long as one of them is :u:...

It would be interesting if he might be something like 3 CMC, UUR. I don't think there has ever been a 'Walker with double one color, single other. There has been "clamoring" from the "community" for a UR "Artifacts matter" Planeswalker, so I am guessing he'll probably be it.


Storyline guesses:
Dovin Baan gets word of some terrorists plotting against the World's Fair. He sends out the bat-signal and the Gatewatch come running. Turns out the leaders of the terrorist group are one, or both, of Chandra's parents. They reach out to Chandra who then convinces the Gatewatch that a regime-change is necessary, or she just works in secret to assist her folks.

Am I doing it right? I forgot to work the Eldrazi in there somehow... :rolleyes:

Why actually think? (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/storygen.php) Wizards doesn't bother to, why should you?

Just add the words Jace, Gatewatch, Elrazi and/or Bolas and you are set.

[square_two]

Storyline guesses:
Dovin Baan gets word of some terrorists plotting against the World's Fair. He sends out the bat-signal and the Gatewatch come running. Turns out the leaders of the terrorist group are one, or both, of Chandra's parents. They reach out to Chandra who then convinces the Gatewatch that a regime-change is necessary, or she just works in secret to assist her folks.

Am I doing it right? I forgot to work the Eldrazi in there somehow... :rolleyes:

At this point, it's basically one of the last lines from a recent superhero movie.

"Now that we have saved this world from this [insert disaster], we are going to be noticed by [insert next threat]! We need to form a [insert team name]!"

[Ace/Homebrew]

There has been "clamoring" from the "community" for a UR "Artifacts matter" Planeswalker.

I believe the community (read: filthy casuals) has been clamoring for a :u:/:r: artifact themed Legendary creature for EDH purposes.

I will give props to Wizards on that front though. Recently they have given us: a :u::b::g: commander with CMC3 for Tiny Leaders (is that still a thing?)
a legendary Werewolf in :r:/:g: for EDH
a :r:/:g: Werewolf Planeswalker to go in the legendary Werewolf EDH deck.

The only other thing, besides reprinting Damnation, that I've seen a lot of complaining about is the lack of :u:/:r: artifact-matters Commander. And here is the perfect set for one.

[H]

I believe the community (read: filthy casuals) has been clamoring for a :u:/:r: artifact themed Legendary creature for EDH purposes.

Bleh, yeah, you're right. Goes to show you how much I've really been paying attention. But this guy is a 'Walker though, so he can't be it. I guess maybe he won't be UR?

Or perhaps a repeat of SOI? Arlin in Shadows and then the Legendary Werewolf in Moon. I could see it, gotta sell that second set somehow.

[btm10]

Unrelated, is there a story reason we haven't gone back to Lorwyn? I'm awful at keeping on top of the story.

[Barook]

Unrelated, is there a story reason we haven't gone back to Lorwyn? I'm awful at keeping on top of the story.
None, the plane wasn't very well-received according to marketing.

[H]

So Saheeli Rai (https://twitter.com/misterorange/status/770248275685433344/photo/1) is confirmed as a :u::r: which would seem to mean that Dovin Baan is possibly not even Blue? There's never been a non-Blue Vedalken though, so how many Blue 'Walkers are they planning to print this block?

[btm10]

None, the plane wasn't very well-received according to marketing.

Lame. It's probably my favorite block after Dominia.

[jmlima]

...

Dovin Baan is a Vedalken 'Senior Inspector' for Kaladesh's World's Fair.

...

Next we will have a Dwarf 'Junior Accountant' at the Ravnica Bureau of Tax Evasion.

[Rocco111]

The card will probably suck but I like that art. Maybe mono-Blue? Or UW? The art is so heavy on UR though, but why would would an inspector be Red?

Because based on the cards seen in Origins, Ghirapur's a red (eventually izzet) thing.

Am not sure how reliable the info about Saheeli Rai being an Izzet PW is. Mainly because this picture is apparently taken from a mobile phone game, game which took numerous freedom regarding the port of MtG as PuzzleQuest game. [Nota: it is not a bad game, but paper and digital cards can be really different]
Side note, I'd be really happy to see a proper, good, Legacy-worth UR planeswalker. Ral Zarek got us hyped for nothing (still no Zarek-Stasis out there) & Dak Fayden made us dream a tinsy bit but there's still no deck able to take full advantage of it.

[Barook]

Art looks pretty promising (http://imgur.com/a/9cxp1)

Although I have no idea why the Protoss (http://i.imgur.com/HbPc2XU.jpg) are on Kaladesh.

[Lemnear]

Elves?! Dualcolor lands?!

Ok, enough to doom it not instantly

[H]

Elves?! Dualcolor lands?!

Ok, enough to doom it not instantly

You forgot, possibly Dwarves!

Incoming Dwarven Weaponsmith reprint boys, gird your loins!

[kirkusjones]

Looking through the art for the set, I had a thought. Would Wizards do another color-centric set like Torment? Could Kaladesh (despite being the homeworld of Chandra) be both an artifact matters set and also more blue tinged? Or is it just because the stuff I've seen so far has been focused on one part of the plane that feels heavily flavored towards blue?

[Darkenslight]

I believe the community (read: filthy casuals) has been clamoring for a :u:/:r: artifact themed Legendary creature for EDH purposes.

I will give props to Wizards on that front though. Recently they have given us: a :u::b::g: commander with CMC3 for Tiny Leaders (is that still a thing?)
a legendary Werewolf in :r:/:g: for EDH
a :r:/:g: Werewolf Planeswalker to go in the legendary Werewolf EDH deck.

The only other thing, besides reprinting Damnation, that I've seen a lot of complaining about is the lack of :u:/:r: artifact-matters Commander. And here is the perfect set for one.

Pia Nalaar says hi. :D

[Deadinthestreet]

Looking through the art for the set, I had a thought. Would Wizards do another color-centric set like Torment? Could Kaladesh (despite being the homeworld of Chandra) be both an artifact matters set and also more blue tinged? Or is it just because the stuff I've seen so far has been focused on one part of the plane that feels heavily flavored towards blue?



They don't do gimmick sets like torment anymore. All sets will have equal color distribution

[H]

http://i.imgur.com/taDvzdv.jpg

Chandra, Torch of Defiance is the new Chandra, only the art and name are spoiled so far. Should we start taking bets on if she is the worst Chandra yet? I have doubt that she can really be better than Chandra, Flamecaller which is already in Standard.

EDIT: Also, Dwarves are confirmed on Kaladesh in this story (http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/magic-story/time-innovation-2016-08-31).

[Ace/Homebrew]

Chandra, Torch of Defiance is the new Chandra, only the art and name are spoiled so far. Should we start taking bets on if she is the worst Chandra yet?
As far as MtG modern art is concerned, I actually think that will look badass in PW-card form!

If she is any good (which I'm reading as Legacy-playable) will be determined by if they go big (like Flamecaller) or small (like Liliana of the Veil).
For a planeswalker to break in to Legacy, it pretty much has to cost 3 mana, or cost 4 mana and be close in power to Jace, the Mind Sculptor.

If they make her 3 mana and follow this format:

+x> Card advantage
-x> Protect herself
-X> Win the game

...then she'll reach the high bar Legacy sets.
Time will tell, but so far I approve of the art and the card name.

[TsumiBand]

EDIT: Also, Dwarves are confirmed on Kaladesh in this story (http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/magic-story/time-innovation-2016-08-31).

ABOUT FUCKING TIME

I was wondering when we'd come back around to those little bastards. Odyssey's attempt to tribalize them was pitiful; let's hope Kaladesh can do them solid

[H]

As far as MtG modern art is concerned, I actually think that will look badass in PW-card form!

If she is any good (which I'm reading as Legacy-playable) will be determined by if they go big (like Flamecaller) or small (like Liliana of the Veil).
For a planeswalker to break in to Legacy, it pretty much has to cost 3 mana, or cost 4 mana and be close in power to Jace, the Mind Sculptor.

If they make her 3 mana and follow this format:

+x> Card advantage
-x> Protect herself
-X> Win the game

...then she'll reach the high bar Legacy sets.
Time will tell, but so far I approve of the art and the card name.

Indeed, the art is great, easily Chandra Ablaze or this could be the best.

One issue with nearly every version of Chandra is the very limited usefulness of the plus ability. On the ones with good plus abilities, it often fails to align well with the CMC to yield something powerful. Consider each:

Chandra Ablaze (+1 isn't terrible, but isn't very good either due to the Red clause. Zero isn't great due to giving you opponent cards. -7 is actually pretty great, but CMC 6 is just a killer)
Chandra Nalaar (+1 is awful. -X is actually pretty decent, since she has starting loyalty, -8 is good, but at CMC 5, this one just isn't amazing by any stretch.)
Chandra, Flamecaller (+1 is great, easily the best plus on any Chandra. Zero is a Wheel plus one, which is actually pretty decent. -X is interesting, but not really game winning. Problem here is CMC 6 of course. This might be the best Chandra overall.)
Chandra, Pyromaster (+1 is not very good, but the "can't block" clause could have value sometimes. Zero is actually very good. -7 is decent, kind of random, but should win you the game most of the time. I think this is the best attempt to make an highly playable Chandra and is probably the most playable outside Standard, with a single Red CMC of 4. The +1 really holds this one back though, if only it said "can't attack or block until your next turn.")
Chandra, Roaring Flame (This one is actually pretty good, +1 could actually win you a game on an empty or stalled board, -2 is a bit steep but still OK, -7 should win you the game. Problem here, of course, is that this is a flip creature. If this was just a regular Planeswalker at CMC 3, it'd be pretty amazing, but that is pretty obvious.)
Chandra, the Firebrand (+1 is terrible, -2 is OK to maybe good, but is really too contingent on having Instants or Sorceries in your hand. -6 is pretty meh and might not even win a game.)

So, I think the biggest problem with Chandra is the disjunction of "powerful" abilities with "low enough" CMCs for playability. Also, ironically enough, most of the "better" Chandras are terrible at protecting themselves, which is pretty funny when you think about the fact that she is a FIRE MAGE.


ABOUT FUCKING TIME

I was wondering when we'd come back around to those little bastards. Odyssey's attempt to tribalize them was pitiful; let's hope Kaladesh can do them solid

Saddle up your Dwarven Pony and hide your Goblins of the Flarg!

I am actually curious though if any might be strong enough to get Dwarven Recruiter banned. Unlikely, but maybe eventually.

[Lemnear]

The three upcoming Planeswalkers:

http://i.imgur.com/taDvzdv.jpg

Chandra

http://magic.wizards.com/sites/mtg/files/images/featured/EN_KLD_Dovin_image_Gallery.jpg

Dovin Baan

http://magic.wizards.com/sites/mtg/files/images/featured/qweqweq1.jpg

Saheeli

[Dice_Box]

The colors on Saheeli's metal, I wonder if we are going to be heading back to "Colourless matters" again. I do hope so.

[Undomian]

http://magic.wizards.com/sites/mtg/files/EN_MS-KLD-02PortraitPost_0.jpg

This card seems... pretty sweet actually?

[Scott]

Can any MUD style decks play that? It is a form of consistency..

[Ace/Homebrew]

'No returning mechanics in Kaladesh' even though that is clearly Metalcraft...

[Barook]

Seems pretty awesome with CoW (which also helps enabling Metalcraft), plus it can find CoW, assuming you control enough artifacts to activate it. Effectively 5 mana is a hefty price, though.

[Stuart]

I'd assume MUD wants 1 or 2. The 4 Wasteland/Factory slots can be awkward for the deck, so this could go in that space.

Fingers crossed for a new Sol Land or Locus!

[Lemnear]

Its the same as the Monarch-Land: Far too expensive to pull off and in this case even restricted to Metalcraft. Whilewe are at it: Why isn't Metalcraft a thing for this set in the first place? Would have made an amazing natural fit on this plane. Fuck you WotC

[Dice_Box]

Its the same as the Monarch-Land: Far too expensive to pull off and in this case even restricted to Metalcraft. Whilewe are at it: Why isn't Metalcraft a thing for this set in the first place? Would have made an amazing natural fit on this plane. Fuck you WotC
Does anything make you happy? I mean, this is a card likely to see play in decks that run SOL lands, so far too expensive seems bad, it gives you life in decks that take damage off of Tomb and it gives you a chance to tutor. MUD might now be a deck much these days, but fuck this slots right into that without an issue.

[Mr Miagi]

I like it, one off could be sweet in mud, life gain is rather slow (in terms of amount gained and metalcraft requirement), but a welcoming part of this card. Hoping for some new MUD toys. More locus lands would be awesome :cool:

[Lemnear]

Does anything make you happy? I mean, this is a card likely to see play in decks that run SOL lands, so far too expensive seems bad, it gives you life in decks that take damage off of Tomb and it gives you a chance to tutor. MUD might now be a deck much these days, but fuck this slots right into that without an issue.

To convert lands into more artifacts, Buried Ruins is superior in MUD and it doesn't require you to have a field full of artifacts in the first place which should mean you are winning anyways. Metalcraft is a bitch otherwise we would see Opal Mox or Etched Champion played more. There are plenty of colorless options in MUD for 4 mana to create cardadvantage, just to note. At this point, we are not even talking about the Locus+SolLand MUD manabase which can run eye of Ugin or Sea Gate Wreckage. For me, this card is a Legendary Buried Ruin which does not recycle a destroyed Artifact, but gets a new from your library. What is the most broken stuff it can do? Get a Chalice @ 0 on turn 3?

[TsumiBand]

'No returning mechanics in Kaladesh' even though that is clearly Metalcraft...

Yeah I noticed that right away. It could just be that one land that does a "3 or more" count, so maybe it isn't worth bringing back a whole non-evergreen keyword for just one card?

[Dice_Box]

I would argue that tutoring it more powerful than graveyard recursion and intermediate life gain is not nothing.

[Finn]

It's a very good card. You just don't get three abilities on a land and of course it is a tutor on a land which is outlandishly useful. Don't sweat the artifact requirement. You aren't going to have five mana to activate it unless you have plenty of permanents anyway. Also, the fact that it sacrifices itself is kinda cool considering it is legendary. You can safely go to three of them if your deck is constructed properly.

I expect this to be a staple for years to come.

[rufus]

Can any MUD style decks play that? It is a form of consistency..

Seems like a card for lantern control. I don't think there are any prominent grindy artifact decks in legacy.

[maharis]

Legacy having access to the full suite of artifact lands can't hurt this card.

[rufus]

I would argue that tutoring it more powerful than graveyard recursion and intermediate life gain is not nothing.

I'm not sure 'more powerful' is the right phrase considering that recursion allows stuff like slaver locks. It's more that tutoring is an enabler, and recursion is a finisher; so they have different roles.

Fundamentally, the issue with Inventors' Fair is how expensive and conditional the ability is to activate.

[meffeo]

Does anything make you happy?

I do believe you know the answer.

[supremePINEAPPLE]

https://i.imgur.com/TXfx8w2.jpg

https://i.redd.it/k0za2a1pq5jx.png

https://i.redd.it/jxrcv305r5jx.png

http://i.imgur.com/NdsvF8t.png

Vehicles and the energy mechanic are going to be interesting. Fabricate is the coolest +1/+1 counter throwaway mechanic they've had in a while too.

[Zllig]

Another new symbol and card frame. This shit feels like its getting over saturated real fast. But whatever I'm such a sucker for artifacts that I'll take stupid mechanics if I get more.

[maharis]

Saheeli is basically a 3 CMC blue Nahiri, I wouldn't sleep on that.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Lemnear]

Another new symbol and card frame. This shit feels like its getting over saturated real fast. But whatever I'm such a sucker for artifacts that I'll take stupid mechanics if I get more.

New frame
New Manatype
New Kicker

[Zllig]

Saheeli is basically a 3 CMC blue Nahiri, I wouldn't sleep on that.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

How are you even getting that?

[rufus]

Saheeli is basically a 3 CMC blue Nahiri, I wouldn't sleep on that.

An intriguing card, but no self-protection, and she takes a long time to ult. I'm curious to see what impact she has.



...


Also new artifact subtype.

[maharis]

How are you even getting that?

It comes down and gives you card selection until winning the game...?

Yes, no self-protection, but... Tradeoffs. CMC, force pitchable, artifacts stick around, etc.

[supremePINEAPPLE]

How are you even getting that?Her ult is obviously similar and only comes out a turn slower if played on curve. I think the problem saheeli will run into is that the +1 is so much slower than nahiri's +2 so she can't recover from pressure in the same way and you can't just topdeck her and ultimate in a few turn like nahiri can.

[Cire]

Can't wait till I can animate a Vehicle and have it Crew another Vehicle :tongue:

[rufus]

Her ult is obviously similar and only comes out a turn slower if played on curve. I think the problem saheeli will run into is that the +1 is so much slower than nahiri's +2 so she can't recover from pressure in the same way and you can't just topdeck her and ultimate in a few turn like nahiri can.

Yeah, but the minus ability is so much worse than the Nahiri minus.

I'm trying to think of currently playable legacy artifacts that would pay off on the -2.

[Lemnear]

I am completely unsure how good she is. Sure, she is a Tinker with 4 turns delay, but the other two abilities are kinda tricky. The +1 is kinda pointless as she can't target creatures and the -2 can be really good if you copy a Goblin Welder, Snapcaster Mage, Black Lotus or other crazy shit, but thats maybe not quite the thing for Legacy. The problem for this card is sitting between Dack Fayden and Jace the Mindsculptor in Legacy and Vintage. I dunno if there is a deck which wants to run a Delay-Tinker and the respective tinker-targets plus creatures/artifacts for the -2. Maybe Vintage Slaver is interrested to run her alongside Dack?

[phonics]

When comparing her to Dack or new daretti, she doesnt really -do- anything. Her +1 suffers from the Chandra syndrome but her -2 looks like it could make the card, but it needs you to have something worth copying (as opposed to being able to copy an opponents artifact). Dack when you are behind can dig 2 cards immediately or even steal something from an opponent (not even counting living the dream of snagging a blightsteel in vintage), while daretti seems just plain better outside of not being blue.

Also with those power counters, hopefully we will get a way to interact with these sorts of player counters (like experience counters from the commander sets)
I want to see aetherworksgargadon.dec though.

[civet five]

Her ultimate grabs Blightsteel Colossus, Lightning Greaves and something to clear the way (let's say Spine of Ish Shah). Or grabs Metalworker, Staff of Domination and a third piece of utility. This is one of the few ultimates that actually wins the game the turn it gets ultimated, so we shouldn't totally dismiss it.

[ESG]

https://i.redd.it/k0za2a1pq5jx.png

Energy? Hmmm ... Seems familiar ...

http://old.collectorscache.com/StoreModules/ProductImages/871/lightningenergy108.jpg

[Lemnear]

Her ultimate grabs Blightsteel Colossus, Lightning Greaves and something to clear the way (let's say Spine of Ish Shah). Or grabs Metalworker, Staff of Domination and a third piece of utility. This is one of the few ultimates that actually wins the game the turn it gets ultimated, so we shouldn't totally dismiss it.

Raged Goblin also wins the game if your opponent does nothing and you have infinite time, but thats not how the game works. She does not interact with your opponent and takes forever to ultimate. On top of that you hBe to run potential dead cards

[rufus]

... the -2 can be really good if you copy a Goblin Welder, Snapcaster Mage, Black Lotus or other crazy shit, ...

For some reason I missed that it works on creatures, that makes it a lot stronger. That -2 could save a turn or more in a tribal deck.

[supremePINEAPPLE]

Yeah, but the minus ability is so much worse than the Nahiri minus.

I'm trying to think of currently playable legacy artifacts that would pay off on the -2.It copies creatures too if you didn't catch that. No idea what the shell would look like but there have to be some good targets out there.

EDIT: Too slow :tongue:

[supremePINEAPPLE]

More shit from reddit. Dwarf lord!

https://i.redd.it/hxxsjb9336jx.png

https://i.redd.it/ptjitil716jx.png

https://i.redd.it/298i5bvd36jx.png

[Ace/Homebrew]

So a vehicle is not a creature (which I believe is why the power/toughness is printed in white)...

That means all vehicles effectively have haste?


Edit:
Ahhh it becomes a creature and therefore would still be affected by summoning sickness.

[Dice_Box]

That's a 3 mana Walker I can get behind.

[MD.Ghost]

Dwarf, Vehicle wow great! Cool stuff.

Want to abuse the Flagship with Displacer ;)

[Lemnear]

MaRo patting his own shoulder on stream is unbearable.

"we combined or beloved +1/+1 counter mechanic with our other pet-mechanic - Tokens"


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YFvJyR97Mic

[Gheizen64]

Saheeli is basically a 3 CMC blue Nahiri, I wouldn't sleep on that.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Need 5 turn to ultimate and can't protect herself at all nor cycle anywhere as efficiently or remove threats.

I mean, it cost 1 less, but it's nowhere nahiri imho.

[Cire]

http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/avatars/thumbnails/126/752/200/283/636084270654652236.png

Landfall --> Energy counters

Re: the counters themselves - i like the idea of the player getting counters but if the costs we are seeing are indicative of the other cards I doubt there will be a legacy playable card. For example, this card even with fetchs will take at least 5 turns including when you play her just to make a 6/6

[Lemnear]

http://i.imgur.com/NdsvF8t.png

https://i.redd.it/298i5bvd36jx.png

https://lumiere-a.akamaihd.net/v1/images/databank_boontaeveclassicpodracerpilots_01_169_e6dc291f.jpeg?region=0%2C49%2C1560%2C780

Magic: The Podracing

[TsumiBand]

It is sort of interesting that there's all this talk of keywords versus words like "bury" becoming "destroy, cannot regenerate" and now we see that "Put a _____ into play" has become "Create a ______".

Given the necessity for clarity when dealing with things like, say, replacement effects, I wonder what kinds of discussions they have before they swap out words like "put into a graveyard" for "dies", or "put a thing into play" with "create". We've needed to understand the difference between "cast", "play", "copy", and other similar-but-different actions for a while now, and I wonder if effects that "create" a thing will have unclear interactions with other similar effects. When you get right down to it, what exactly *is* the difference between moving from "put a thing into play" and "create a thing", versus the old "bury" and "destroy a thing, can't regen it this turn" change? It's more a curiosity than a complaint.

As for, like, energy counters and Vehicles and shit, well whatever man. Vehicles feels like it's secretly just equipment, kind of like the flying/shadow difference. vOv

[Cire]

Vehicles feels like it's secretly just equipment, kind of like the flying/shadow difference. vOv

I guess. . . i mean sure. . . it's equip - tap creature with X power or greater, and at the end of turn unequip ~, and while equiped player may target ~ as if it was a creature. :tongue:

[Lemnear]

I guess. . . i mean sure. . . it's equip - tap creature with X power or greater, and at the end of turn unequip ~, and while equiped player may target ~ as if it was a creature. :tongue:

No, they are the TimeSpiral Totems except you activate them with tapping a creature rather than paying mana

[H]

Depala plus Dwarven Recruiter, draw as many Dwarves as you have mana. Dwarf Aggro, Go!

[rufus]

...

As for, like, energy counters and Vehicles and shit, well whatever man. Vehicles feels like it's secretly just equipment, kind of like the flying/shadow difference.
...


Seems a bit different. Whacky interaction with a bunch of stuff like evoke, defender, and inspired.

[Barook]

While I'm a sucker for alternate resource systems, those energy counters seem like a pretty parasitc mechanic.


https://i.redd.it/hxxsjb9336jx.png
Carrier has arrived!

Not sold on vehicles. Seems like an unnecessary complicated mechanic for basic stuff, aka turning dudes sideways. But that's what you get when you surround Maro with too many asskissers that don't stop him.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CrYijIjWcAA8ta8.jpg

Edit: Depala + Dwarven Recruiter

Edit #2:
http://mythicspoiler.com/kld/cards/rashmieternitiescrafter.jpg

So you could Force stuff in your opponent's turn and cast a Tarmogoyf from it during your opponent's turn? :really:

[rufus]

....

So you could Force stuff in your opponent's turn and cast a Tarmogoyf from it during your opponent's turn? :really:

EDH synergy with Momir Vig is a little interesting... What's the best card to cast before Terminus?

Edit: In legacy, it's probably Ancestral Visions that you're looking for.

[Scott]

http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/avatars/thumbnails/126/762/200/283/636084428151589658.png

Fleetwheel Cruiser :4:

Artifact - Vehicle

Trample, Haste
When Fleetwheel Cruiser enters the battlefield, it becomes an artifact creature until the end of turn.
Crew 2

5/3

[rufus]

...
Not sold on vehicles. Seems like an unnecessary complicated mechanic for basic stuff, aka turning dudes sideways....


The power level just seems too low to offset how conditional they are.

[Scott]

Third camel in MtG history, huzzah.

https://i.redd.it/vp9v7s7v67jx.png

[Meekrab]

It is sort of interesting that there's all this talk of keywords versus words like "bury" becoming "destroy, cannot regenerate" and now we see that "Put a _____ into play" has become "Create a ______".

Given the necessity for clarity when dealing with things like, say, replacement effects, I wonder what kinds of discussions they have before they swap out words like "put into a graveyard" for "dies", or "put a thing into play" with "create". We've needed to understand the difference between "cast", "play", "copy", and other similar-but-different actions for a while now, and I wonder if effects that "create" a thing will have unclear interactions with other similar effects. When you get right down to it, what exactly *is* the difference between moving from "put a thing into play" and "create a thing", versus the old "bury" and "destroy a thing, can't regen it this turn" change? It's more a curiosity than a complaint.
I think the flavor gain of 'Bury' was pretty minimal, compared to the confusion of having to learn another keyword. 'Create'ing a token is pretty obvious and feels right?

WotC have been slowly phasing out (rimshot) regeneration as an evergreen mechanic anyway, so I could imagine a future Standard where 'Bury' and 'Destroy' are literally the same thing.

[phonics]

http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/avatars/thumbnails/126/762/200/283/636084428151589658.png

Fleetwheel Cruiser :4:

Artifact - Vehicle

Trample, Haste
When Fleetwheel Cruiser enters the battlefield, it becomes an artifact creature until the end of turn.
Crew 2

5/3

With these 6 and 5 power cars, the 6 power flying boat castle seems underwhelming.

[Scott]

http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/avatars/126/777/636084558279681943.jpeg

[Lemnear]

Not sold on vehicles. Seems like an unnecessary complicated mechanic for basic stuff, aka turning dudes sideways. But that's what you get when you surround Maro with too many asskissers that don't stop him.

It fits with the Token+Kicker mechanic also in this set. You can grow creatures to fit your Vehicles or create 1/1 tokens to crew the smaller vehicles. That's still a ridiculous shallow use of two mechanics just to turn several 4/5/6 mana arifacts into creatures with a similar power. I mean since when do 4 mana 5/3 Rares need to be conditional?

[Darkenslight]

Her ultimate grabs Blightsteel Colossus, Lightning Greaves and something to clear the way (let's say Spine of Ish Shah). Or grabs Metalworker, Staff of Domination and a third piece of utility. This is one of the few ultimates that actually wins the game the turn it gets ultimated, so we shouldn't totally dismiss it.

In Vintage, her ultimate instagrabs Time-Key-X. The +1 is pretty wqeak, but that -2 is really potent, if a little weird. Getting an artifact version fo Welder is nucking futs. I can see a UR Mr. ROBOT seck seeing play in both Legacy and Vintage, because, IMO, Saheeli pushes the deck over the top. Add in the other stuff and I think she might be a sleeper card.

Also, Rashmi is going to be insane in Commander. Card draw and free spells are always a great combination.

[HSCK]

I wonder if there is s place for Rashmi with delve cards and Force somewhere.

[aCatNamedBootsy]

Rashmi seems quite fun with SDT, be it EDH or Legacy (maybe vintage?)

[maraxusofkelds]

Obvious pushed vanilla mythic just to sell packs. Thanks JOTC. Inb4 muh limited.

http://mythicspoiler.com/kld/cards/verdurousgearhulk.jpg

[Dice_Box]

A 5 drop "8/8" with trample. That's a card I want to show the 12 year old and watch her mind explode.

[Bobmans]

A 5 drop "8/8" with trample. That's a card I want to show the 12 year old and watch her mind explode.
Well, Force of Nature was really something back in the days.

[Dice_Box]

Fuck I didn't even know that was a thing. I might have to take some elves off her or I am never winning...

[kirkusjones]

http://mythicspoiler.com/kld/cards/terrorofthefairgrounds.jpg

So Kaladesh is suffering an infestation of gremlins, and Dovin Baan called the Gatewatch to come take care of them?

[Dice_Box]

Ok, who fed Gizmo after midnight?

[Scott]

http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/avatars/126/792/636085235982610940.jpeg

Ghirapur Orrery (:4:)

Each player may play an additional land on each of his or her turns.

At the beginning of each player's upkeep, if that player has no cards in hands, that player draws three cards.

This detailed model allows the edificers to examine the city from every angle.

[Dice_Box]

Holy Shit, that's a card for Shops.

[Poron]

Bottled Cloister + That nets your 5 cards per turn

[Cire]

Woodweaver's Puzzleknot 2
Artifact (C)
When Woodweaver's Puzzleknot enters the battlefield, you gain 3 life and get {E}{E}{E} (three energy counters).
2G, Sacrifice Woodweaver's Puzzleknot: You gain 3 life and get {E}{E}{E}.

this on turn 1 off sol land, sac this on 2, cast Aetherworks Marvel on 3rd turn tap it and get Emrakul? :eyebrow:

[Gheizen64]

Cycle of fastland got completed.

[kirkusjones]

Cycle of fastland got completed.

Dang. I was really hoping it was the tango lands from BFZ. Oh well. I guess we won't see that cycle completed for a while.

[rufus]

New Johnny Rare:



Artifact
4

If an artifact or creature entering the battlefield causes a triggered ability of a permanent you control to trigger, that ability triggers an additional time.


Mana cost seems like too much for legacy. There are some dopey infinite combos with e.g. Soul Foundry.

[Stuart]

Ghirapur Orrery is interesting. Nothing spoiled so far fixes MUD's real issues, but the new goodies are nice nonetheless.

[Lemnear]

http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/avatars/126/792/636085235982610940.jpeg

Ghirapur Orrery (:4:)

Each player may play an additional land on each of his or her turns.

At the beginning of each player's upkeep, if that player has no cards in hands, that player draws three cards.

This detailed model allows the edificers to examine the city from every angle.

Mother of God. This is the second coming of Uba Shop in Vintage! The card is also a no-brainer for 12-Post manabase in Legacy

[MaximumC]

Mother of God. This is the second coming of Uba Shop in Vintage! The card is also a no-brainer for 12-Post manabase in Legacy

Orrey is super exciting.

Driving cars? Not so much.

[Lemnear]

Orrey is super exciting.

Driving cars? Not so much.

Orrery > cars. A geeks life

[MGB]

I know there are only so many ways to depict an Orrery, but the resemblance to this older card is uncanny. Couldn't they at least try to be a little more original in their artistic direction and flavor text?

http://magiccards.info/scans/en/cns/206.jpg

[rufus]

Is there a critical mass of 'self returning' creatures like Salvage Titan and the recently spoiled Ovalchase Daredevil where looting suddenly becomes much stronger?


3B
Ovalchase Daredevil
Human Pilot
When an artifact enters the battlefield under your control you may return Ovalchase Daredevil from your graveyard to your hand.
4/2


(Also

[Noctalor]

MUD era has come to an end in vintage.

:u: hard counter on artifact spoilered.

[Crimhead]

MUD era has come to an end in vintage.

:u: hard counter on artifact spoilered.
Blue Artifact Blast!

[Darkenslight]

Blue Artifact Blast!

IT also hits Eldrazi, as it has the templating, "Counter target colorless spell". IUt's called Ceremonious Rejection.

[Mr Miagi]

MUD era has come to an end in vintage.

:u: hard counter on artifact spoilered.

You meant to say MUD will adopt 4 mental missteps ;)

on a more serious note, don't we already have annul/sabotage, well it' can't hit eldrazis, but still..

[Lemnear]

http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/mtg/images/e/ec/Annul_USG.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20140420011234

No idea why you make such a buzz

[Dice_Box]

It does not target artifacts, it's a hard counter on Colourless Spells.
https://i.redd.it/oq7ciuljsjjx.png

[alphacat]

Hmm, I watched the panel, and I think the impact of this card is a bit overstated.

Yes, it's really good against Eldrazi and MUD, but I don't think it's a blow out against Eldrazi. In fact, there are ways to play around it, the most common of which is Cavern of Souls, which most Eldrazi decks run as a 4 off. Against MUD, it's worse than Steel Sabotage. I think this card is a decent sideboard card, but nothing more than that.

[Noctalor]

hp://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/mtg/images/e/ec/Annul_USG.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20140420011234

No idea why you make such a buzz

I'm actually facing mostly eldrazis as the new MUD version, bans "killed" the deck and eldrazis were somewhat able to put it back on track, being able to trash all the plays they've got sounds good to me.

[Echelon]

I'm curious to see where this set is going. Camels and pod racers, WTF. I do get why the camel has 0 power though - can't have a camel driving a pod racer, obviously. But why the Filligree Familiar can..? "Honey, that furby just stole our skiff".

And Emrakul roaming down the boulevard, stuffed in his Cruiser... Well... Yeah. Monster on a clown car.

Let's just do an Elsa when it comes to the flavor of that mechanic.

I don't understand the need to define a separate symbol for energy counters. Just treat them like they did experience counters - they're roughly the same thing. This time around you just have stuff you can sink your experience counters into (skill points?).

[HdH_Cthulhu]

I'm curious to see where this set is going. Camels and pod racers, WTF. I do get why the camel has 0 power though - can't have a camel driving a pod racer, obviously. But why the Filligree Familiar can..? "Honey, that furby just stole our skiff".

And Emrakul roaming down the boulevard, stuffed in his Cruiser... Well... Yeah. Monster on a clown car.

Let's just do an Elsa when it comes to the flavor of that mechanic.

I don't understand the need to define a separate symbol for energy counters. Just treat them like they did experience counters - they're roughly the same thing. This time around you just have stuff you can sink your experience counters into (skill points?).

Also i dont like it how they spam energie... 56z would be ok but its like zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz:get a 6/6

Edit: however i still think its cool!

[Darkenslight]

I'm curious to see where this set is going. Camels and pod racers, WTF. I do get why the camel has 0 power though - can't have a camel driving a pod racer, obviously. But why the Filligree Familiar can..? "Honey, that furby just stole our skiff".

And Emrakul roaming down the boulevard, stuffed in his Cruiser... Well... Yeah. Monster on a clown car.

Let's just do an Elsa when it comes to the flavor of that mechanic.

I don't understand the need to define a separate symbol for energy counters. Just treat them like they did experience counters - they're roughly the same thing. This time around you just have stuff you can sink your experience counters into (skill points?).

That would have been a more itneresting, but less flavorful way, IMO, to represent it. That said, at least the energy symbol is pretty unique-looking.


Also i dont like it how they spam energie... 56z would be ok but its like zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz:get a 6/6

Edit: however i still think its cool!

Yep. I now have the iconic English-dub Dragonball Z theme in my head now.

[CptHaddock]

Oh man looks like they finally released a cataclysm on a creature. Seems like we are getting closer and closer to armageddon on a creature.

Cataclysmic Gearhulk
3WW
Artifact Creature - Construct
Vigilant.

"When Cataclysmic Gearhulk enters the battlefield, each player chooses from among the non-land permanents he or she controls an artifact, a creature, an enchantment, and a planeswalker, then sacrifices the rest."


http://mythicspoiler.com/kld/cards/cataclysmicgearhulk.jpg

[jmlima]

Oh man looks like they finally released a cataclysm on a creature. Seems like we are getting closer and closer to armageddon on a creature.

Cataclysmic Gearhulk
3WW
Artifact Creature - Construct
Vigilant.

"When Cataclysmic Gearhulk enters the battlefield, each player chooses from among the non-land permanents he or she controls an artifact, a creature, an enchantment, and a planeswalker, then sacrifices the rest."


http://mythicspoiler.com/kld/cards/cataclysmicgearhulk.jpg


Look like the way of the future is to Aether Vial all your spells.

[rufus]

Oh man looks like they finally released a cataclysm on a creature. Seems like we are getting closer and closer to armageddon on a creature. ...

I wouldn't be so sure. The gearhulk only hits non-land permanents.

[Dice_Box]

You do not sac lands. I do not think this is going to replace the old girl in the side.

[colo]

Also lets Walkers live. I'm not terribly impressed; most likely not Legacy material.

[Darkenslight]

Also, in the Magic story, we got Pia Nalaar as a confirmed card.

Pia Nalaar :2::r:
Legendary Creature - Human Artificer (R)
ETB, create a Thopter.
:1::r: : Target artifact creature gets +1/+1 ueot.
:1:, sac an artifact: Target creature can't block this turn.
2/2

[Ace/Homebrew]

And Tezzert is confirmed to be on the plane.

http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/avatars/thumbnails/126/842/200/283/636086660519774410.png

[Spam]

And Tezzert is confirmed to be on the plane.

http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/avatars/thumbnails/126/842/200/283/636086660519774410.png
In a surprising twist Tezzeret will be Chandra's father; the next set will be full of parental disussions and Bolas will be finally depicted for what he really is, a boring uncle. At least Eldrazi will give us a break. Or do they!?

[rufus]

Also i dont like it how they spam energie... 56z would be ok but its like zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz:get a 6/6

Edit: however i still think its cool!

Yeah. Having numbers instead of lines of symbols makes sense somewhere between 5 and 8 objects. Soulbright Flamekin has the same issue.

[aluisiocsantos]

The White gearhulk sounds pretty amazing!

[bruizar]

Vehicke is just a variation od banding. They should reintroduce the bands ability. Especially in a set with camels. I mean, Camel ffs...

[Barook]

I imagine Gearhulk + Eldrazi Displacer is going to cause alot of butthurt in Standard.

[Vicar in a tutu]

I fear that new Tezzeret will give Energy and be more or less useless outside Kaladesh block.

[Scott]

Interesting effect.

http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/avatars/126/860/636086933967726090.jpeg

[rufus]

Interesting effect.
[Morbid Curiosity]


Yeah... you can get burned pretty bad if it's countered, but that's an explosive card if you feed it a delve body, or something else that cheats casting costs like Frogmite, Salvage Titan, Fatestitcher or Ichorid.

GB Eldrich Evolution / Morbid Curiosity with Allosaurus Rider could be silly in modern.

[phonics]

I wouldn't be so sure. The gearhulk only hits non-land permanents.

I assume after desolation angel and how much they hate land destruction, it is never going to happen.

[Lord_Mcdonalds]

At the rate they were going, I'm surprised they didn't make gearhusk a 3/2 for 4 that's legendary

[Scott]

New Chandra:

http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/avatars/126/877/636087005960239667.png

Johnny card:

http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/avatars/126/876/636087003378079642.png

[rufus]

Definitely no returning mechanics like metalcraft.

New Chandra looks quite strong though. Not JTMS, but strong anyway.

[maharis]

New Chandra is a really strong piece for any big red deck. Probably could be played elsewhere too but will require some work.

Metallurgic Summonings then Force is probably never going to happen but would be hilarious. Also Gush in vintage.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Barook]

Chandra looks pretty strong for a monored walker.

Design-wise, she's pretty much everything that is wrong with red. She has four abilities - and three of them involve direct damage. :rolleyes:

[Koby]

Chandra looks pretty strong for a monored walker.

Design-wise, she's pretty much everything that is wrong with red. She has four abilities - and three of them involve direct damage. :rolleyes:

Could not agree more. Sure, she's strong in the vacuum, and may end up replacing her clones in Red Stompy decks in Legacy; but I don't really see what the hype is all about. In standard, there's no "red deck" that she completes. She's a glorified 4 mana burn spell in a format where red's entire role is "deal damage."

Very telling how little design space red has left.

[phonics]

I don't think that she is that strong at all, even though it looks like they wanted to push her power by giving her 4 abilities. Her firsts +1 is typical Chandra, and the mana ability feels like it would be about as applicable as the one xenagos had, I would say something like Koths mana ability is much more relevant. Her 'removal' is really expensive, and is conditional (most of the time it wont even kill goyf, let alone angler or any big targets).

The limited design space is because red's identity has pretty much been relegated to burn, big dragons, and wacky effects. Fast mana and land destruction cards are two things WOTC doesnt want, and the power level of aggressive cards are pretty much been dialed in which leaves little to be explored in those aspects. Hopefully with the artifact set (and dwarves) we will get to see something new.

[rufus]

...
The limited design space is because red's identity has pretty much been relegated to burn, big dragons, and wacky effects. Fast mana and land destruction cards are two things WOTC doesnt want, and the power level of aggressive cards are pretty much been dialed in which leaves little to be explored in those aspects. Hopefully with the artifact set (and dwarves) we will get to see something new.

Red has copy effects, flashback, artifact reanimation, token stuff, and looting. Even past Chandra planeswalkers had a bit more variety. Chandra's one-dimensionality issues seem to bet getting worse though.

If Chandra does turn out to be playable in legacy, it will be in a very narrow way. Most decks can also play JTMS which is just plain better.

[Cire]

If Chandra does turn out to be playable in legacy, it will be in a very narrow way. Most decks can also play JTMS which is just plain better.

Also if you're playing a multicolored deck its easier to splash a third color and go for Nahari instead of committing to heavy red.

[rufus]

Something that I missed: Wispweaver Angel doesn't have the 'no angels' clause that Restoration Angel does, so it allows for janky infinite ETB trigger combos off stuff.

Edit:
For example:
Eldrich Evolution (X>=4) + Fork -> Dualcaster Mage, Wispweaver Angel (bounce dualcaster), Purphoros, God of the Forge, Wispweaver Angel

There's probably also going to be a 3-card combo with that Panharmonium thing.

[maharis]

Red has copy effects, flashback, artifact reanimation, token stuff, and looting. Even past Chandra planeswalkers had a bit more variety. Chandra's one-dimensionality issues seem to bet getting worse though.

If Chandra does turn out to be playable in legacy, it will be in a very narrow way. Most decks can also play JTMS which is just plain better.

It's all about the story. Chandra is basically cast as an angsty teen with a built-in flamethrower. You can see in Daretti, for example, how other red planeswalkers have more "creative" abilities thanks to their role in the story.

I think this card is good but I don't think it's flexible (at least in Legacy), thanks to the 2RR. Any big red deck loves this thing for drawing cards and providing a slight mana boost to get to the next level of the curve or do two things in a turn. Maybe a combo deck has it as a secondary win condition. But I can't see another kind of deck getting more out of it than any other 4 cmc planeswalker.

[H]

I think the new Chandra is something better suited to Modern than Legacy. Something like Modern Jund, or a bigger mana Grixis Control deck (since there is no JTMS) perhaps even Cruel Control. Consider the following line that doesn't seem totally out of the realm of possibility with Cruel Ultimatum: manage early threats with Bolt/Terminate, play Chandra turn 4, kill a creature (perhaps a medium 'Goyf), have her live to your next turn, make 5th land drop, add double Red, cast Cruel Ultimatum as long as your duals were on point.

Red in Legacy is just too good at being low to the ground to really want a four-mana Planeswalker, at least generally. Perhaps Jund might want one or two out of the board for grindy match-ups like Miracles. She does have the added "bonus" of not being tagged by REB/'Blast and easier to cast if they Blood Moon you. Still not sure there is a deck that isn't Mono-Red that is really looking for this.

Perhaps this is an actual reason to run Dega? Probably still much better in Modern though, honestly. I recently saw a Dega control deck make a Modern top 8, I'd bet you want this in there as a follow up to Lili, even though :r::r: after :b::b: is pretty rough.

[Stuart]

I think the new Chandra is something better suited to Modern than Legacy.

Yeah, this about sums it up. I doubt she'll see much Legacy play, but she's going straight in my Modern Skred list.

[Finn]

New Chandra is the best red planeswalker, and what? Not flexible? It draws cards, makes mana, does damage to creatures and also players. But, as it is inherently a burn card or a control card, does it do either of these things better than existing options? Probably not. But she is so flexible that I might makes something for her.

[Cire]

http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/attachments/158/286/636087515653036810.jpg

Which new Chandra :confused:. I'm so confused. . . . are there two Chandra's in one set?

[benoasan]

This one (and 6ccm Nissa to) is from the Planeswalker Packs.

http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/feature/kaladesh-packaging-promos-and-planeswalker-decks-2016-09-06

http://media.wizards.com/2016/bVvMNuiu2i_KLD/en_YXvBDsDjHq.png http://media.wizards.com/2016/bVvMNuiu2i_KLD/en_CO4tkc9sLe.png

[Barook]

http://mythicspoiler.com/kld/cards/chandrapyrogenius.jpg

If the next Chandra gets even more one-dimensional, then we're hitting a singularity.

[supremePINEAPPLE]

Well yeah, it's for an intro pack...

[CptHaddock]

Well yeah, it's for an intro pack...

Exactly, they wanted a product that would appeal to new players. It's supposed to be extremely underpowered.

[Cire]

Still find it weird that there are two new chandra's with the Kaladesh set symbol. :rolleyes:

[Darkenslight]

http://mythicspoiler.com/kld/cards/chandrapyrogenius.jpg

If the next Chandra gets even more one-dimensional, then we're hitting a singularity.

Sort of, AIUI, these are Standard-legal variants of the Planeswalkers already in the set.

Like this one:

Nissa, Vital Force
:3: :g: :g:
Planeswalker - Nissa
+1: Untap target land you control> until your next turn, it becomes a 5/5 Elemental creature with haste. It's still a land.
-3: Return target permanent card from your graveyard to hand.
-6: You get an emblem with "Whenever a land enters the battlefield under your control, you may draw a card."
5 Loyalty

That ult is good, and the other abilities are strong, too.

[rufus]

Hmm.. Madcap Experiment seems totally abusable. All you need is a piece of damage prevention like Intervention Pact or Angel's Grace.



3R
Sorcery
Reveal cards from the top of your library until you reveal an artifact card. Put that card onto the battlefield and the rest on the bottom of your library in a random order. Madcap Experiment deals damage to you equal to the number of cards revealed this way.

[Ace/Homebrew]

Nissa, Vital Force
:3: :g: :g:
Planeswalker - Nissa
+1: Untap target land you control> until your next turn, it becomes a 5/5 Elemental creature with haste. It's still a land.
-3: Return target permanent card from your graveyard to hand.
-6: You get an emblem with "Whenever a land enters the battlefield under your control, you may draw a card."
5 Loyalty

http://s3.gatheringmagic.com/uploads/2016/09/06/BF_1.png

Source (http://www.gatheringmagic.com/benfriedman-09062016-elan-vital/)

The +1 turns a land into a 5/5 until your next turn. So she can protect herself.
Isn't this a broken card in a Standard with Oath of Gideon?

Also... feeling a little overwhelmed with all the planeswalker cards being printed.
Which feels really weird for me to say. :confused:

[Cire]

Hmm.. Madcap Experiment seems totally abusable. All you need is a piece of damage prevention like Intervention Pact or Angel's Grace.

Or just search up Platinum Emperion :tongue:

[rufus]

Or just search up Platinum Emperion :tongue:

Yeah... that might fit into Big red some kind of aggro deck?

[Gheizen64]

Or just search up Platinum Emperion :tongue:

Yeah that seems a cute combo for legacy (give some consistency to all-in red and similar decks for marginal costs, like 2 of those and 2 platinum emperions) and seems probably really good for modern.

Alternatively run a deck with like 4 Wurmcoils and other artifact fatties. You need to not run Chrome moxens but i don't think that's a big deal.

http://media.wizards.com/2016/bVvMNuiu2i_KLD/en_eSMEunNZ2Ab.png

[maharis]

New Chandra is the best red planeswalker, and what? Not flexible? It draws cards, makes mana, does damage to creatures and also players. But, as it is inherently a burn card or a control card, does it do either of these things better than existing options? Probably not. But she is so flexible that I might makes something for her.

I meant not flexible in terms of deck type. I don't think this card is stronger than many other options for a Rxx midrange deck, but it's great for the various flavors of big red decks.



Hmm.. Madcap Experiment seems totally abusable. All you need is a piece of damage prevention like Intervention Pact or Angel's Grace.

Personal Sanctuary seems like one of those cards just begging to be broken. Though I guess COP:Red does just as well.

The new Nissa is very intriguing. Almost impossible to beat on an empty board, but 3GG is steep. To the Nic Fit thread...

[Barook]

Burrenton Forge-Tender is probably the more competitive variant for Modern to stop the self-damage from Madcap Experiment.

[Cire]

Yeah that seems a cute combo for legacy (give some consistency to all-in red and similar decks for marginal costs, like 2 of those and 2 platinum emperions) and seems probably really good for modern.

It looks really good for Modern . . . for legacy. . . Red decks sort of want to run lots of artifacts which makes this much worse - but you do want to accel it out so sometype of Jund?


The Jund Imperium?

23 Lands

4 Tarmogoyf
4 DRS
4 Other Threats or Accel?
2 Platinum Imperium

4 Lightning Bolt
4 Madcap Experiment
4 Thoughtseize
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Abrupt Decay
3 Liliana of the Veil

[Gheizen64]

http://media.wizards.com/2016/bVvMNuiu2i_KLD/en_eSMEunNZ2Ab.png


+ 4 Batterskull (lifelink to offset lifeloss)
+ 4 Wurmcoil Engine (Ditto)
+ 2 Platinum Emperion (no damage on flip)

EDIT: chalice is a lot of anti-sinergy with this damn. Probably make this go straight to the unplayable pile. Too bad it was sorta interesting.

[rufus]

Yeah that seems a cute combo for legacy (give some consistency to all-in red and similar decks for marginal costs, like 2 of those and 2 platinum emperions) and seems probably really good for modern.

Alternatively run a deck with like 4 Wurmcoils and other artifact fatties. You need to not run Chrome moxens but i don't think that's a big deal.
...

You could try Mirror Universe but it's probably not strong enough.

There's probably a way to work this into a Shape anew/welder shell with artifact token makers like like Thopter Engineer.

[maharis]

With a W/R deck you can either E-Tutor the target to the top or play one of the myriad ways to stop the damage. Janky, but you never know...

[Dice_Box]

265/264? Second Chan?

Edit:
Ok, read more. I am caught up now. Needed to refresh the page.

[H]

This one (and 6ccm Nissa to) is from the Planeswalker Packs.

http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/feature/kaladesh-packaging-promos-and-planeswalker-decks-2016-09-06

I might actually get these for my kids, incidentally the two oldest have favorite colors of Red and Green, in Magic and real life.

[rufus]

4 U U

Artifact Creature - Construct

Flash

When Torrential Gearhulk enters the battlefield, you may cast target instant card from your graveyard without paying its mana cost. If that card would be put into your graveyard this turn, exile it instead.



Instant-only limits this a bit, but it seems like we're getting to the combo section of the spoilers.

[MaximumC]

http://media.wizards.com/2016/bVvMNuiu2i_KLD/en_eSMEunNZ2Ab.png


+ 4 Batterskull (lifelink to offset lifeloss)
+ 4 Wurmcoil Engine (Ditto)
+ 2 Platinum Emperion (no damage on flip)

EDIT: chalice is a lot of anti-sinergy with this damn. Probably make this go straight to the unplayable pile. Too bad it was sorta interesting.

You're thinking too small. This card is Tinker as long as you are stopping the damage. You want to get Blightsteel, Sphinx of the Steel Wind, Sundering Titan, or Inkwell depending on the nature of your matchup. As far as ways to avoid the damage, buddy, we got those in SPADES:

Modern:
Soulfire Grand Master (lifelink offsets the damage, lets you tinker twice with tons of mana, helps burn, etc)
Forge Tender (kinda weak unless you're comboing, but hoses Red hard)
Personal Sanctuary (useless other than for the combo)

Legacy:
Solitary Confinement (also tastes great with another card from Conspiracy 2...)
Energy Storm (My favorite burn / delver hoser)
Circle of Protection: Red (Ah, the classics...)
Greater Realm of Preservation (Ah, the slightly more versatile classics...)
Rune of Protection: Red (Ah, the cantripping classics...)
Protective Sphere (Ah, the 5 color deck classics...)
Invulnerability
Glacial Chasm (Drop dat chasm, cast dat spell; the most efficient of all)

And I'm probably missing many, many more.

Think about pairing this with Nahiri in some kind of W/R burn/tinker deck. Add the polymorph for artifacts? Sounds sexy to me! THERE ARE SO MANY TOOLS IM GONNA DIE.

EDIT: If you run x4 those new Blue Gearhulks, you can chain all four of them out after casting Madcap Skills ONCE. Soulfire Grand Master will stop the damage.

[rufus]

You're thinking too small. This card is Tinker as long as you are stopping the damage.

I think it's more like Oath of Druids than tinker. You don't get a toolbox and there are deck building restrictions, but it's still very strong.



EDIT: If you run x4 those new Blue Gearhulks, you can chain all four of them out after casting Madcap Skills ONCE. Soulfire Grand Master will stop the damage.

New gearhulk is instant-only. Madcap Experiment is a sorcery.

[bruizar]

possessed portal, punishing fire, madcap experiment

[H]

possessed portal, punishing fire, madcap experiment

Possessed Portal is so slow though. Only chance is to maybe substitute Squee, Goblin Nabob for Fires and try it in Modern.

[Ace/Homebrew]

Is there a way to redirect the damage from Madcap Experiment to an opponent?
Like a Charbelcher-style deck, but without any artifacts...

Possibly for Modern?

[bruizar]

Lich's Mirror :-) Too bad we don't have Channel. http://www.archive.themanadrain.com/index.php?PHPSESSID=fivkfld35uc0cturm6ti4nfrt1&topic=37247.0

[maharis]

Probably worth noting that Madcap Experiment is both in the some color as, and a valid target for, Burning Wish.

[H]

Is there a way to redirect the damage from Madcap Experiment to an opponent?
Like a Charbelcher-style deck, but without any artifacts...

Possibly for Modern?

Deflecting Palm but then you realize if they counter Palm you lose, :cool:.

EDIT: Oops, I'm dumb and didn't really RTFC, :laugh:

[Ace/Homebrew]

Deflecting Palm but then you realize if they counter Palm you lose, :cool:.
That was my first thought too (Deflecting Palm)! But if you read it a bit closer, specifically the last 3 words, you'll notice it doesn't accomplish what we want. :tongue:

Ideally this would be a 'ritual into big mana' deck. So most Modern decks could at best Remand the redirect spell.

[rufus]

Deflecting Palm but then you realize if they counter Palm you lose, :cool:.


... Deflecting Palm deals that much damage to that source's controller. ...

Nope.

Mirror Universe is close.

[rufus]

Lich's Mirror :-) Too bad we don't have Channel. ...

You could try with Treasonous Ogre and use Lich's Mirror to draw 7 and reset life totals, but, on its face, that seems awful.

[bruizar]

Just run 3/4 bots + show and tells. That's probably what will happen.. Sphinx + Platinum Emporium + Blighsteel Colossus with sideboard Possessed Portal against Storm/Combo and Inkwell Leviathan against control

[Lemnear]

Just run 3/4 bots + show and tells. That's probably what will happen.. Sphinx + Platinum Emporium + Blighsteel Colossus with sideboard Possessed Portal against Storm/Combo and Inkwell Leviathan against control

For me thats just a third tool in addition to through the breach and Sneak Attack for MonoRedSneakAttack. Just needs some Blightsteels or Emperions

[bruizar]

For me thats just a third tool in addition to through the breach and Sneak Attack for MonoRedSneakAttack. Just needs some Blightsteels or Emperions
No love for Stronghold Gambit?

[bruizar]

http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/avatars/126/827/636086130295131975.png

I find this very combolicious for EDH. I'm just not sure what engine this fuels, but it does fuel something.

http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/avatars/126/872/636086953281270454.png
This one is also very powerful. 5/4 for 2 mana, or 3/2 but big enough to eat a bolt, or win combat against most creatures

http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/avatars/126/893/636087527151186431.png
Could easily join up with Arcbound Ravager

[rufus]

...

I find this very combolicious for EDH. I'm just not sure what engine this fuels, but it does fuel something.



Riddlesmith or Jeskai Ascendancy

[H]

This one is also very powerful. 5/4 for 2 mana, or 3/2 but big enough to eat a bolt, or win combat against most creatures

I believe it can only ever be a 4/3, the trigger asks you to pay 1, I don't think you can somehow pay 2E.

Card is still pretty decent i think.

[swoop]

http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/avatars/126/827/636086130295131975.png

I find this very combolicious for EDH. I'm just not sure what engine this fuels, but it does fuel something.

http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/avatars/126/872/636086953281270454.png
This one is also very powerful. 5/4 for 2 mana, or 3/2 but big enough to eat a bolt, or win combat against most creatures

http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/avatars/126/893/636087527151186431.png
Could easily join up with Arcbound Ravager

Isn't this 2nd guy a 4/3 when he attacks?

[MaximumC]

No love for Stronghold Gambit?

None.

[bruizar]

Isn't this 2nd guy a 4/3 when he attacks?

I'd love to get a definitive ruling on this.

[Begle1]

He swings twice as a 4/3 trampler and leaves behind a 3/2 body for two mana. He seems first-pickable to me...

[MaximumC]

I'd love to get a definitive ruling on this.

I mean, you can do that, but we know what the answer is. This guy has a triggered ability. "When" you attack, it goes on the stack. Then, when the ability resolves, you can choose to pay {{{ENERGON CUBE}}}} or not. Depending on what you do, this guy gets swole or not.

[BenBleiweiss]

I'd love to get a definitive ruling on this.

It's a once-per-combat trigger. The only way he can get himself past 4/3 is to attack more than one time in a turn (IE: Relentless Assault-type effects).

[Ace/Homebrew]

I'd love to get a definitive ruling on this.
I don't see how it is any different than Aerie Worshippers.

[MaximumC]

I don't see how it is any different than Aerie Worshippers.

That's cuz it ain't.

[Darkenslight]

Hareruya spoiler:

Torrential Gearhulk :4: :u: :u:　
Artifact Creature - Construct
Flash
When Torrential Gearhulk enters the battlefield, you may cast target instant card from your graveyard without paying its mana cost. If that card would be put into your graveyard this turn, exile it instead.
5/6

Seems like a Commander auto-include in certain decks, and it's potent enough for the Blue control decks in Modern that it may see play. Free spells are always risky.

[bruizar]

I don't see how it is any different than Aerie Worshippers.

Thanks. Was not aware of this.

I think Animation Module might be a sleeper / niche card. Thopter sword gets played, ravager module should also be able to see play.

[Lemnear]

Hareruya spoiler:

Torrential Gearhulk :4: :u: :u:　
Artifact Creature - Construct
Flash
When Torrential Gearhulk enters the battlefield, you may cast target instant card from your graveyard without paying its mana cost. If that card would be put into your graveyard this turn, exile it instead.
5/6

Seems like a Commander auto-include in certain decks, and it's potent enough for the Blue control decks in Modern that it may see play. Free spells are always risky.

Too bad its not :2: :u: :u: and a 3/4. Endgame flashback a Plow or FoW and deploy a 3/4 body would have been Legacy material

[MaximumC]

Too bad its not :2: :u: :u: and a 3/4. Endgame flashback a Plow or FoW and deploy a 3/4 body would have been Legacy material

Gearhulk is so-so. I mean, six mana is fine, but remember that we've had this effect on Mizzix Mastery for awhile and it did jack crap.

[bruizar]

Gearhulk is so-so. I mean, six mana is fine, but remember that we've had this effect on Mizzix Mastery for awhile and it did jack crap.

This can be welded in for value though, or reanimated that makes it unique I think? Perhaps a crazy modern unburial rites package?


Also, I'd like to point out explicitly that energy counters can also be proliferated but not doubling seasoned. This may be obvious, but because energy counters are so much like mana, it's easy to forget this.

--

Wait, I'm not so sure whether proliferate works since energy counters are not attached to a player but owned/controlled by one?

[Barook]

This can be welded in for value though, or reanimated that makes it unique I think? Perhaps a crazy modern unburial rites package?
Gifts Ungiven package? But what is a truely gamebreaking, expensive Instant that is Modern-legal?

[bruizar]

Gifts Ungiven package? But what is a truely gamebreaking, expensive Instant that is Modern-legal?

None.. I checked. Anything this does, snapcaster does better....


Animation module also works very well with steel overseer. Affinity juice..

[rufus]

Gifts Ungiven package? But what is a truely gamebreaking, expensive Instant that is Modern-legal?

You could try for chaining together Fated Infatuation,Cackling Counterpart, Druid's Deliverance and such from the graveyard to assemble a lethal army.


...
Wait, I'm not so sure whether proliferate works since energy counters are not attached to a player but owned/controlled by one?

I don't think so.
Edit: I was confused because we have the symbol and we have counters...

[Smea.gol.lum]

Animation module also works very well with steel overseer. Affinity juice..

Arcbound Ravager is better ;)

With Animation module in play, Ravager reads:

1: Put a +1/+1 counter on Arcbound Ravager

Even better: When your opponent targets Ravager with removal, you can put its counters onto the Servo token, so your opponent requires two removal spells to stop the onslaught.

[Ace/Homebrew]

It'll be a huge fail if they didn't construct energy counters to work with proliferate...

[rufus]

It'll be a huge fail if they didn't construct energy counters to work with proliferate...

Sorry. It's officially "energy counters", not just [symbol] so it does work with proliferate. I wonder if they're planning to retcon all the other counter types into special symbols too. :rolleyes:

[Ace/Homebrew]

I wonder if they're planning to retcon all the other counter types into special symbols too. :rolleyes:

I believe that is the direction things are going in. The article on 'lessons learned' from BfZ/Oath and SoI/Moon praised all instances of representing mechanics with symbols. And we've seen as many different takes on borders as there have been sets...

http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=401815&type=card http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=407694&type=card http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=414408&type=card http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=416784&type=card http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/avatars/thumbnails/126/875/200/283/636086971974815777.png

[Lemnear]

I love Arcane Savant so much. Brillant Artwork and Ability. Too bad the card goes right to the bin after the draft.

[Barook]

https://images1.mtggoldfish.com/uploads/e46b06ac-43af-4285-b56c-4ad18fa5ee0b/Paradoxical-Outcome.png

Mana artifacts, aka Moxen? That's the first thing that comes into my mind. Might be too expensive to be any good in Eternal, though.

[civet five]

https://images1.mtggoldfish.com/uploads/e46b06ac-43af-4285-b56c-4ad18fa5ee0b/Paradoxical-Outcome.png

Mana artifacts, aka Moxen? That's the first thing that comes into my mind. Might be too expensive to be any good in Eternal, though.

Moxen and Affinity creatures. Also could act as a dumb Storm engine with 0 cc artifacts in a deck like Eggs but uses Return to Hand effects instead.

[rufus]

[Paradoxical-Outcome.png]

Mana artifacts, aka Moxen? That's the first thing that comes into my mind. Might be too expensive to be any good in Eternal, though.

Mana artifacts (Moxen, Sol Ring, and such) are obvious synergies, but it should do stuff with swarming decks like Elves!, and it's an instant so you can play it over SDT activations.

[ESG]

Moxen and Affinity creatures. Also could act as a dumb Storm engine with 0 cc artifacts in a deck like Eggs but uses Return to Hand effects instead.

Seems like best friends with Hurkyl's Recall in generating Storm in Vintage.

[Lemnear]

https://images1.mtggoldfish.com/uploads/e46b06ac-43af-4285-b56c-4ad18fa5ee0b/Paradoxical-Outcome.png

Mana artifacts, aka Moxen? That's the first thing that comes into my mind. Might be too expensive to be any good in Eternal, though.

Even in Vintage, this card rarely draws more than 3 cards. You can Merchant Scroll into Ancestral Recall or SnapcasterMage into Recall for less mana and with less restrictions. Same goes fo Gush. In Legacy the number of returnable artifacts and stuff is limited. 4 mana is imo too much to build around it or run it as an opportunity card

[rufus]

Even in Vintage, this card rarely draws more than 3 cards. You can Merchant Scroll into Ancestral Recall or SnapcasterMage into Recall for less mana and with less restrictions. Same goes fo Gush. In Legacy the number of returnable artifacts and stuff is limited. 4 mana is imo too much to build around it or run it as an opportunity card

If you can draw 3 cards for U and a card it's a good deal, right?

Each of the original moxen as well as Mox Opal and Sol Ring and Grim Monolith that's in play effectively reduces the casting cost by 1, and draws a card.

Mana Crypt and Mana Vault effectively reduce the casting cost by 2, and draw a card.

Chrome Mox and Mox Diamond reduce the effective cost by 1 and 'loot'.

In something like Vintage belcher, paradoxical outcome would be like ancestral recall a lot of the time.

...

In legacy, I wonder if this fits into some kind of high tide deck with cards Candelabra of Tawnos, Cloud of Faeries, Snap and maybe Peregrine Drake.

[Lemnear]

If you can draw 3 cards for U and a card it's a good deal, right?

Each of the original moxen as well as Mox Opal and Sol Ring and Grim Monolith that's in play effectively reduces the casting cost by 1, and draws a card.

Mana Crypt and Mana Vault effectively reduce the casting cost by 2, and draw a card.

Chrome Mox and Mox Diamond reduce the effective cost by 1 and 'loot'.

In something like Vintage belcher, paradoxical outcome would be like ancestral recall a lot of the time.

Given there is no Chalice, Stony Silence, Nullrod, Mana Drain involved and you indeed control 3+ artifacts. It sure can be boil down to some sick plays, but I think this will be more of a cornercase than anything else. Its not that we call TimeSpiral a free draw seven just because it CAN untap all the lands

[dte]

Given that Retract is not played to generate storm and mana, I think it is clear that this will not be an easy way to generate a lot of card draw for low investment.
I don't say it is unplayable, just that it is not an unconditional card draw for cheap, even in the moxen world.

[Cambriel]

Given that Retract is not played to generate storm and mana, I think it is clear that this will not be an easy way to generate a lot of card draw for low investment.
I don't say it is unplayable, just that it is not an unconditional card draw for cheap, even in the moxen world.

Retract doesn't actually draw you cards, though. No one would play Gush just to replay a land either.

[dte]

Retract doesn't actually draw you cards, though. No one would play Gush just to replay a land either.

Well, when people wrote that it would be a recall without real setup, then it would mean that retract would be a +2 manas, +4 storm spell with minimum investment (U, so easier to cast, protect, and less backbreaking if countered). Such a card would definitely see play. The reason it does not is, more often than not, it is not as good as that. Hence, this spell would not be a pseudo recall.

[BenBleiweiss]

Is there a "Life" shell in the format that was just missing a good win condition?

http://media.wizards.com/2016/bVvMNuiu2i_KLD/en_KuDOnPV1qn.png

[Dice_Box]

Not in Legacy, but there is Soul sisters in Modern. That said, that's looks like a sick build around me card in a storm style deck. Even if it is just for the fun of it.

[kabal]

Is there a "Life" shell in the format that was just missing a good win condition?

http://media.wizards.com/2016/bVvMNuiu2i_KLD/en_KuDOnPV1qn.png

http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/avatars/thumbnails/112/489/200/283/29924.full.jpg

[rufus]

Well, when people wrote that it would be a recall without real setup, then it would mean that retract would be a +2 manas, +4 storm spell with minimum investment (U, so easier to cast, protect, and less backbreaking if countered). Such a card would definitely see play. The reason it does not is, more often than not, it is not as good as that. Hence, this spell would not be a pseudo recall.

I think that there's heavy setup involved, but the potential pay off is huge - philosophically closer to Ad Nauseam than Ancestral Recall.

[Cire]

I mean . . . I guess you can use the old Breakfist lists that ran both the infinite life combos and the self-mill combo, but replace the self mill with this card and win faster. . . I mean after you get infinite life, you just wait to draw into this card and then deal damage to the opponent?

Best I can come up with:

Aether - Clerics

4 Daru Spiritualist
4 Mother of Runes
4 Nomads en-Kor
4 Task Force
4 SFM
2 Shaman en-Kor

4 Condemn
4 Swords to Plowshare
4 Aether Vial
2 Shuko
2 Aetherflux Reservoir
1 Jitte
1 Batterskull

4 Cavern of Souls
4 Starlit Sanctum
12 Plains

[rufus]

Not in Legacy, but there is Soul sisters in Modern. That said, that's looks like a sick build around me card in a storm style deck. Even if it is just for the fun of it.

No new mechanics: 'stormsquared' is nothing like 'storm'. This could finish games with divining tops like Mentor does in miracles.

[BenBleiweiss]

http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/avatars/thumbnails/112/489/200/283/29924.full.jpg

For what it's worth:

Test of Endurance doesn't give you life.
Test of Endurance can't immediately deal the damage/win the game (play it and then activate it to win)
Test of Endurance is White versus Colorless
Test of Endurance can't kill Platinum Angel on the way to dealing fifty to the opponent :)

Not saying that this is good or not - but it seems to be the most efficient way to kill someone if you're playing a deck that relies on gaining an arbitrarily large amount of life/going infinite life. Probably best in a Modern shell (Eggs or Soul Sisters), but there's always en-Kor style decks in Legacy that Modern doesn't have as access to (at least, the efficient en-Kor creatures).

[Technics]

Assuming you start at 20 life that kills after 9 spells. Basically a Tendrils that you play before storming off. Kinda awkward because it only half counts your rituals that power it out, but only needing 9 spells seems very playable in Modern.

[MaximumC]

Is it just me, or is this set giving out a really "Urza's Saga" vibe? Johnny cards left and right. I love it!


If you can draw 3 cards for U and a card it's a good deal, right?


This is the key, I think. This card only "costs" 4 in the sense that you need 4 mana to cast it. If you're returning mana rocks to your hand, it doesn't actually cost that much. It can easily be free or even generate mana.

To make matters worse, this card snowballs. That is, if you deploy one for 3, it fuels the next one to be bigger. Casting it with five or six artifacts on the table is probably game over as it both generates mana and draws you gas.

Now, this plays VERY badly with Sphere Effects (currently headlined by Thalia) so, like all other Storm cards, one needs to take it with a grain of salt. Even so, this is very interesting.

[Cire]

Is it just me, or is this set giving out a really "Urza's Saga" vibe? Johnny cards left and right. I love it!


I'm loving this set so far :tongue:

[MaximumC]

I'm loving this set so far :tongue:

Yeah! I mean, it's good enough that I can overlook CARS


http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/avatars/thumbnails/112/489/200/283/29924.full.jpg

Yeah, these cards are not comparable. Being colorless and gaining life is HUGE, and it's why you'd play this card in the first place. And, this is gaining you life at a rate thats really absurd as you start to storm out:

1 Spell = 1 life
2 Spells = 3 life
3 Spells = 6 life
4 Spells = 10 life
5 Spells = 15 life
6 Spells = 21 life

And so on. When you consider that casting 4 - 6 spells is absolutely reasonable in existing decks like Elves and TPS, and there are lots of other, currently unplayed storm mechanic cards like Shrieking Drake, this is no joke. How is a beats deck supposed to do jack crap if you are able to gain even 6 life a turn, let alone getting the engine going? And, on top of that, it has its own win condition attached. This card seems amazing.


No new mechanics: 'stormsquared' is nothing like 'storm'. This could finish games with divining tops like Mentor does in miracles.

Nitpick: this is not Storm Squared. It's not even Storm Factorial. It's a sequence of the sum of the natural numbers. I think it's called the Triangular Sequence, if I remember correctly.

This is the Triangle of Life.

[Dice_Box]

Assuming you start at 20 life that kills after 9 spells. Basically a Tendrils that you play before storming off. Kinda awkward because it only half counts your rituals that power it out, but only needing 9 spells seems very playable in Modern.
I just bought the Thing in the Ice, Pyromancer shit I needed. I could see it in that kind of deck.

[HdH_Cthulhu]

Imagine if you have 2 of this out and durdle with cantrips/top.

Its so funny that it can target a creature. I mean yes platinum angle etc... but come on that 50 dmg nuke xD

Also cool in a mirror when both end up 200+ life.

Also EDH olor... god dammit that sounds just wrong...

EDIT: full colorless egg combo? with helm of the awekening + sdt+ eggs.

[kabal]

Yeah, these cards are not comparable.

Never mentioned anything about a comparison. Original question was about life shell deck missing good win con, so I mentioned Life.dec win con. :)

[H]

And so on. When you consider that casting 4 - 6 spells is absolutely reasonable in existing decks like Elves and TPS, and there are lots of other, currently unplayed storm mechanic cards like Shrieking Drake, this is no joke. How is a beats deck supposed to do jack crap if you are able to gain even 6 life a turn, let alone getting the engine going? And, on top of that, it has its own win condition attached. This card seems amazing.

Deck Idea:

4 Shrieking Drake
4 High Tide
4 Remand
4 Aetherflux Reservoir
4 Force of Will
4 Ponder
4 Preordain
4 Brainstorm
X Candelabra of Tawnos
X Whatever, I Don't Know

X Islands

Ehh, this is a bad idea, I feel bad.

EDIT: Oh, obviously Top + Top + Helm of Awakening, duh. It just get's worse and worse.

[MaximumC]

I just bought the Thing in the Ice, Pyromancer shit I needed. I could see it in that kind of deck.

Not only is it a win condition, but it keeps you alive in the short term while you build towards storm. Seems quite good.

[dte]

if you're started on the top-top combo, Alhammarret's archive is your friend.

[H]

Just was pointed out elsewhere that in EDH you can use Sydri, Galvanic Genius to machine gun down players. Not like you'd havea hard time tutoring for Reservoir in Esper colors at all either.

[Cire]

http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/avatars/thumbnails/126/915/200/283/636088387431016150.png

Black sorcery version of think twice :tongue:

(not legacy worthy - but I found that funny)

http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/avatars/thumbnails/126/919/200/283/636088398077967911.png

Another welding target?

Edit - that said flavor question: Who invented this? Why? And why would anyone want to see this at an Inventor's Fair?

[MaximumC]

Just was pointed out elsewhere that in EDH you can use Sydri, Galvanic Genius to machine gun down players. Not like you'd havea hard time tutoring for Reservoir in Esper colors at all either.

I don't get it.

EDIT: Oh, you mean you can machine gun once you reach 50 life in the first place. Okay, sure, but the trick is getting up to 50 in a multiplayer game.

[H]

I don't get it.

EDIT: Oh, you mean you can machine gun once you reach 50 life in the first place. Okay, sure, but the trick is getting up to 50 in a multiplayer game.

Yeah, but in EDH you start with 40, shouldn't be that hard to get to 50 with a Reservoir in play. I mean, you win when you do, so it's worth it really.

[Cire]

http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/avatars/thumbnails/126/914/200/283/636088386413020442.png

Between Woodweaver's Puzzleknot and Glassblower's Puzzleknot maybe we haver reached a critical point where playing Aetherworks Marvel is not that farfetched. If you find Emrakul between the 6 top cards is game ending, and with the Scry 2 of the Glassblower you can dig 8 cards realy... It doesn't sound totaly crazy . . . (Yes . . . still crazy)