[SCD] Leovold, Emissary of Trest

[UseLess]

I Think that Leovold, Emissary of Trest is a very interesting card from the new set and believe it can be very powerful in the right shell. And it's in my favorite color combination. Awesome :cool:. I've been toying with ideas about this 'right shell' but nothing concrete has come out of it. So I want you! For ideas, input and criticism. I'll first summarize what I've come up with so far. The card has been linked to shardless BUG as a 2-off or so. While the card may certainly work here and do its thing occasionally, I would really like a deck dedicated to Leovold. I want to play this card consistently on turns 2-4 and abuse its effects as much as possible.

With this in mind I came to the conclusion that I either want to play 3-4 in my deck or play a tutor like GSZ. Four DRS is a given to play this card turn two. Cards that don't synergize well with this plan are daze and wasteland because you need three colors and a minimum of two lands to cast it in the early turns. Cards I believe synergize well with it are Baleful Strix (even more card advantage) and misdirection to protect Leopold, also from Abrupt Decay. I believe that if you misdirect an AD to another creature of yours you even get to draw another cards because Leovold triggers twice. Now to get to four mana to play GSZ for this card might not be easy and I think only a nic fit type of shell could support this. I love Nic Fit but I'm unsure if this is really the best way to go. On the other hand, playing 3-4 legendaries of the same type in your deck isn't too attractive, even though the pitch to Misdirection/FoW. I also love shardless agent, but how many three drops can a legacy deck realistically support? One of the other main things that a potential new deck needs is a solid win condition and I'm unsure about the best one. Fat creatures could work for the nic fit route, maybe Planeswalker like Jace and Garruk Relentless, Gurmag Angler or Tarmogoyf in more regular shells or even Bitterblossom came to mind. Input is welcome. I might update this post a bit later, but got to get ready for work now.

EDIT: Other cards that could work well are Pernicious Deed and maybe even a countertop package, though Miracles is most likely the better deck for that.

[Dice_Box]

I feel sure this guy will see play. One sided disruption with a kind of suede protection? I like it. I don't know what the shell is yet, but I am sure he will see play.

[klaus]

Hey UseLess,
good on you, making a thread for Leo. I wonder why nobody else has done it yet, as he looks sufficiently powerful on paper to set any creative mtg brain to tinker mode.
Here are some general thoughts in brief:
* the list of cards he blanks is long, but BS and Ponder come to mind first
* in order to justify MD inclusion, or even build a deck around him, there should be at least 4 spells dedicated to harvesting the one-sidedness
* step 0 should be compiling a list of cards that make opponents rage-quit once they resolve, while Leo sticks around [I suggest a collective brainstorm and a comprehensive list you compile under "Edit:" in your opening post]
* dropping spells that are solid on their own in favor of spells that are awesome with Leo, but so-so without him, is a risky business. My gut feeling tells me: "keep those at a bare minimum."


My first approach was to max out on Leovolds and pair it with Howling Mine. Now that we're talking a two-card combo, I also went with 4 BS and 4 Ponder to assemble it. Fun fact Howling Mine helps find Leo too. FoW, DRS, Decay were more or less no-brainers, and so was TS in a way. At that point I was at a junction as I now had to determine the actual wincon. I went with combat damage - partially because Leo boasts a 3/3 body himself, which is nothing to sneeze at. That being said it's clearly debatable, whether the creature-based approach is a given. Now there were two things to work out: #1 what creatures should be included?, #2 how do I up the blue count to sufficiently support FoW?.
#1 Tarmo came to mind first: Mine will fill your hand faster than you can say: "I need more mana accel!", and that guy's muscle's cheap. Next came Gurmac Angler, same argument, however I feel especially confident about his inclusion due to the fact that Mine also tends to fill our yard quickly (same for DRS fodder). Next came Thing in the Ice (yes, mo'fo' TITI). I admit that card has yet to be broken, but it has so much going for it in this shell that I really need to test it: ups the blue count to 18, Mine delivers a ton of spells to flip it quickly, that 0/4 butt helps fend of pesky critters until the combo comes online (or Tarmo can go about his business), it's cheap, and, if Mine went un-Leo'd and my opponent has dropped a little army, TITI sends them right back home.
Last but not least came creature removal and some numbers tweaking.
Let me know what you think!

4 Leovold
4 DRS
4 Tarmogoyf
1 Angler
2 Thing in the Ice
3 Abrupt Decay

4 Howling Mine

4 FoW
4 Thoughtseize
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
2 Dismember
((40))

4 Polluted Delta
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Underground Sea
3 Tropical Island
1 Island
1 Swamp
1 Forest
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Creeping Tarpit
((20))

[colo]

I've always wanted to play Glissa, the Traitor in a legacy list. Maybe she fits in with Leovold; they both synergize somewhat (as Glissa is effectively untouchable in combat), and share colours and creature types.

[pettdan]

I'm also wondering where to make him fit. I think Nic Fit is reasonable since it's a GSZ-able hate bear, but that's not realizing his full potential. However since he's good vs both combo and fair decks he's very maindeckable. Having him removed once played is pretty ok since you get the card advantage, but to really make him shine I think you should be able to protect him. Or replay him.

I want to try him in a Bant+black shell with Fauna Shaman and Green Sun's Zenith for tutoring, Aether Vial for putting him into play without the opponent being able to respond (with cantrip) before it's too late, and Mother of Runes for protection and Deathrite Shaman for potential acceleration (if not using Vial, which is probably more powerful). That is a very obscure deck but it seems to have all the tools to put him to full use: you can tutor and put him into play at instant speed and uncounterably using Fauna Shaman + Vial. Still, more fun than good.

Regarding cards that pair up well with Leovold, Dack Fayden would be one of those. Counterspells also seem fine because you get to draw cards even if you counter the removal.

[LarsLeif]

I agree that you probably want to play cards that are good on their own alongside Leo, rather than synergistic cards that are weak on their own. I dislike Howling Mines and Misdirection because of that. I also don't think Shardless Agent is stellar as your curve becomes super high. I do like Strix and Goyf though.

I would probably try:

4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Baleful Strix
3 Leovold, Emissary of Trest

4 Thoughtseize
2 Toxic Deluge

4 Force of Will
4 Brainstorm
4 Abrupt Decay
1 Dismember
1 Disfigure

2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Garruk Relentless

4 Wasteland
1 Creeping Tar Pit
3 Underground Sea
2 Tropical Island
1 Bayou
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Polluted Delta
1 Forest
1 Swamp

Note: It is not a Leovold deck, it's a deck that plays a high number of Leovolds (3 seems like max in a non-dedicated deck like this).

[mrjumbo03]

Hey UseLess,
good on you, making a thread for Leo. I wonder why nobody else has done it yet, as he looks sufficiently powerful on paper to set any creative mtg brain to tinker mode.
Here are some general thoughts in brief:
* the list of cards he blanks is long, but BS and Ponder come to mind first
* in order to justify MD inclusion, or even build a deck around him, there should be at least 4 spells dedicated to harvesting the one-sidedness
* step 0 should be compiling a list of cards that make opponents rage-quit once they resolve, while Leo sticks around [I suggest a collective brainstorm and a comprehensive list you compile under "Edit:" in your opening post]
* dropping spells that are solid on their own in favor of spells that are awesome with Leo, but so-so without him, is a risky business. My gut feeling tells me: "keep those at a bare minimum."


My first approach was to max out on Leovolds and pair it with Howling Mine. Now that we're talking a two-card combo, I also went with 4 BS and 4 Ponder to assemble it. Fun fact Howling Mine helps find Leo too. FoW, DRS, Decay were more or less no-brainers, and so was TS in a way. At that point I was at a junction as I now had to determine the actual wincon. I went with combat damage - partially because Leo boasts a 3/3 body himself, which is nothing to sneeze at. That being said it's clearly debatable, whether the creature-based approach is a given. Now there were two things to work out: #1 what creatures should be included?, #2 how do I up the blue count to sufficiently support FoW?.
#1 Tarmo came to mind first: Mine will fill your hand faster than you can say: "I need more mana accel!", and that guy's muscle's cheap. Next came Gurmac Angler, same argument, however I feel especially confident about his inclusion due to the fact that Mine also tends to fill our yard quickly (same for DRS fodder). Next came Thing in the Ice (yes, mo'fo' TITI). I admit that card has yet to be broken, but it has so much going for it in this shell that I really need to test it: ups the blue count to 18, Mine delivers a ton of spells to flip it quickly, that 0/4 butt helps fend of pesky critters until the combo comes online (or Tarmo can go about his business), it's cheap, and, if Mine went un-Leo'd and my opponent has dropped a little army, TITI sends them right back home.
Last but not least came creature removal and some numbers tweaking.
Let me know what you think!

4 Leovold
4 DRS
4 Tarmogoyf
1 Angler
2 Thing in the Ice
3 Abrupt Decay

4 Howling Mine

4 FoW
4 Thoughtseize
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
2 Dismember
((40))

4 Polluted Delta
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Underground Sea
3 Tropical Island
1 Island
1 Swamp
1 Forest
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Creeping Tarpit
((20))

Isn't Anvil of Bogardan just better than Howling Mine in this deck? You still get to dig, but then it's a lock when coupled with Leovold.

[Julian23]

I think you always wanna play at least 1 Mindbreak Trap or Flusterstorm in your sideboard when playing a deck with Leovold. Gives you 10+ draws to find them once your opponent targets you with Tendrils.

[LarsLeif]

I think you always wanna play at least 1 Mindbreak Trap or Flusterstorm in your sideboard when playing a deck with Leovold. Gives you 10+ draws to find them once your opponent targets you with Tendrils.


Agreed. Flusterstorm is probably preferable as it has applications against the other combo decks that doesn't target players when going off.

[Lormador]

Well, if we wanted to go further into control, what about BUG Standstill? We've got the counters to maximize his ability there.

[Julian23]

Well, if we wanted to go further into control, what about BUG Standstill? We've got the counters to maximize his ability there.

But not the creatures anymore.

[UseLess]

I'm also wondering where to make him fit. I think Nic Fit is reasonable since it's a GSZ-able hate bear, but that's not realizing his full potential. However since he's good vs both combo and fair decks he's very maindeckable. Having him removed once played is pretty ok since you get the card advantage, but to really make him shine I think you should be able to protect him. Or replay him.

I think that it is indeed very important that a deck centered around Leovold is able to keep playing him, or protect him. That's the reason I was thinking of Misdirection, as it is the only on-color (playable) card I could think of that can protect him from abrupt decay. Unearth is a solid card to get him back and it's quite good when combined with snapcaster mage for even more value. I love the Dack Fayden suggestion. I'm really afraid that adding a fourth color just results in so many auto-losses. It'd not be a delver style deck that can operate on 1-2 lands because we want to be casting 3-drops and maybe even GSZ for X=3. Keep the suggestions coming though, love all the input so far!

[H]

I think a (non-Nic Fit) BUG deck with GSZ is largely "unexplored" territory that could be pretty good. Damn good versus Miracles at the very least. Grindy as hell, just the way I like it.

Once I can get back to making it to FNM I am going to try to convert my BUG Control deck over to have a few Zenith and a couple Leovold.

[kirkusjones]

I know it costs four, but a resolved Teferi's Puzzle Box means your opponent doesn't draw for the rest of the game.

[H]

I know it costs four, but a resolved Teferi's Puzzle Box means your opponent doesn't draw for the rest of the game.

They'll still get their natural draw though and can play an Instant if they draw it.

[kirkusjones]

They'll still get their natural draw though and can play an Instant if they draw it.

Crap, you're right. I still think it might be worth considering as it limits interaction with your plan to an instant during their draw step and it dodges decay. Plus, if they do manage to target the Puzzle Box or Leovold with their instant, you get to draw a card, potentially digging up an answer.

[square_two]

I think a (non-Nic Fit) BUG deck with GSZ is largely "unexplored" territory that could be pretty good. Damn good versus Miracles at the very least. Grindy as hell, just the way I like it.

Once I can get back to making it to FNM I am going to try to convert my BUG Control deck over to have a few Zenith and a couple Leovold.

From my experience with NO Rug, having access to both Goyf and 4 GSZ can be ridiculous, and visibly frustrating to opponents. Some decks just can't handle the stream of cheap beasties.

There have also been RUG (and probably BUG is very possible as well) modern decks popping up that make use of Traverse the Ulvenwald. Red gives you Tarfire though which is kinda gimmicky but does help goyf and delirium.

[H]

Crap, you're right. I still think it might be worth considering as it limits interaction with your plan to an instant during their draw step and it dodges decay.

But they could just Decay Leovold. It's ok, I just don't think it's good enough for Legacy.


From my experience with NO Rug, having access to both Goyf and 4 GSZ can be ridiculous, and visibly frustrating to opponents. Some decks just can't handle the stream of cheap beasties.

There have also been RUG (and probably BUG is very possible as well) modern decks popping up that make use of Traverse the Ulvenwald. Red gives you Tarfire though which is kinda gimmicky but does help goyf and delirium.

Yeah, 'Goyfs for days is really good. I'ver won far more games of Magic than I ever should have just because I happened to draw 3-4 'Goyfs. GSZ also allows for some utility creatures, like Scavenging Ooze and others to enter the list with greater reliability too.

[Cambriel]

I know it costs four, but a resolved Teferi's Puzzle Box means your opponent doesn't draw for the rest of the game.

I would worry about playing bad cards that just happen to be EDH style shenanigans with Leovold. Same goes for Howling Mine or Anvil. Those are too likely to backfire. If I really wanted a symmetrical draw to break, I'd probably just run Mikokoro or Geier Reach Sanitarium as a utility land. The opportunity cost there is much lower, and you can "turn off" both by just not activating them.

Honestly, if you're going to try and get fancy with draw effects windmilling Day's Undoing seems like the last word there.

[H]

I would worry about playing bad cards that just happen to be EDH style shenanigans with Leovold. Same goes for Howling Mine or Anvil. Those are too likely to backfire. If I really wanted a symmetrical draw to break, I'd probably just run Mikokoro or Geier Reach Sanitarium as a utility land. The opportunity cost there is much lower, and you can "turn off" both by just not activating them.

Honestly, if you're going to try and get fancy with draw effects windmilling Day's Undoing seems like the last word there.

Sanitarium might be decent, since you are playing BUG you could get them to zero cards in hand (via Hymn, etc) and so you get to loot and they get "milled" for one even if you don't have Leovold.

[Cambriel]

Sanitarium might be decent, since you are playing BUG you could get them to zero cards in hand (via Hymn, etc) and so you get to loot and they get "milled" for one even if you don't have Leovold.

Feels like the sort of thing that could give Top players fits, but I haven't tried it. I wouldn't want more than 1 in the deck.

I played a little bit of vintage Leovold last week. The mana cost is no joke, and you really can't afford too many colorless lands. I played Wastes/Strip, but I could see Wastes/Sanitarium as a legacy kit. He played very, very well with Bob and DRS since it overloads removal. They can't afford to let any of it sit around without taking over.

[H]

Feels like the sort of thing that could give Top players fits, but I haven't tried it. I wouldn't want more than 1 in the deck.

I played a little bit of vintage Leovold last week. The mana cost is no joke, and you really can't afford too many colorless lands. I played Wastes/Strip, but I could see Wastes/Sanitarium as a legacy kit. He played very, very well with Bob and DRS since it overloads removal. They can't afford to let any of it sit around without taking over.

Indeed, interestingly enough, if they draw a Miracle with Leo out (yeah, I am calling him Leo from now on) and they have no other cards in hand, you can rip it with Sanitarium while the trigger on the stack, which is kind of neat (sorry if I am point out the obvious). I will probably try 3 Wastelands/1 GRS when I do get a chance to play though, colorless lands are definitely a liability.

[Fox]

Two pages in guys, you know it's double-draw town with Divert and Misdirection right? :cool: #MakeItRayne

[maharis]

I'm a huge fan of this card and accidentally built a deck for him a couple days before he was spoiled! This is a deck I played at the NJ SCG classic, I posted a small report in the Team America control/midrange thread so I won't repost here, but I will say that playing 7 DRS and 5 Goyfs in your deck is insane:

4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Baleful Strix
2 True-Name Nemesis
2 Tarmogoyf
1 Trygon Predator
1 Dryad Arbor

4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
4 Daze
4 Abrupt Decay
3 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Ponder
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Sylvan Library
1 Maelstrom Pulse

4 Misty Rainforest
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wasteland
3 Underground Sea
2 Tropical Island
1 Bayou
1 Forest
1 Island
1 Volrath's Stronghold

3 Surgical Extraction
2 Thoughtseize
1 Life from the Loam
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Engineered Plague
1 Krosan Grip
1 Garruk Relentless
1 Pithing Needle
1 Spell Pierce
1 Flusterstorm
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Dread of Night

Right off the top I would cut the True-Names for Leovold; while TNN is a good card, it's not as backbreaking without equipment to back it up (it's basically just a Sulfuric Vortex).

From there I think the number of Strix could be messed with a bit since Leovold WILL draw you cards in any matchup where the Strix draw matters except for Eldrazi. Could expand the GSZ package a little bit more (just watch out for Iona I guess).

Hand disruption also seems good with Leovold so maybe a Thoughtseize/Liliana approach would be better than daze.

Building around it is a possibility because there is no shortage of tutors to find him and whatever other piece you want, but I think this card's greatest strength will be its ability to nerf large portions of many decks while being a substantial body and rarely costing you a card when removed. It will change the face of BUG and spawn a different kind of deck in that color combo than we've seen. For example, I don't see this card slotting into the existing Shardless deck because the card to cut would be actual Shardless Agent and then your deck changes quite a bit. And it's not really great in a Delver deck because it's a 3 mana creature (that's not to say you can't play it there, just that it's less optimized).

[klaus]

Hi again,
after somebody mentioned symmetric effects are likely so-so irl (looking at you,Howling Mine), unless they can be controlled... I did done some diggin, searching for more synergistic spells. Here are my top three finds:

http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=380392&type=card

http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?type=card&name=Day%27s+Undoing

http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=87941&type=card

Not sure yet, which one has the most potential. What's your opinion?
Anyway, here's a new draft:

3 Leo
4 Dakra Mystic
3 Strix
4 DRS
2 Thing in the Ice
2 Goyf
1 Angler

4 BS
4 Ponder

2 Decay
2 Dismember

4 FoW
4 Therapy
3 Probe

((42))

[Cambriel]

Right off the top I would cut the True-Names for Leovold; while TNN is a good card, it's not as backbreaking without equipment to back it up (it's basically just a Sulfuric Vortex).

From there I think the number of Strix could be messed with a bit since Leovold WILL draw you cards in any matchup where the Strix draw matters except for Eldrazi. Could expand the GSZ package a little bit more (just watch out for Iona I guess).

Seems like a good start to me. For legacy, I would probably cut the Trygon Predator and 2 TNN from that list, and keep the Strixes. That maintains the mana distribution. I know Trygon is nice to have in certain matches, but it seems a lot less necessary in the with 4 Decays.

[square_two]

Seems like a good start to me. For legacy, I would probably cut the Trygon Predator and 2 TNN from that list, and keep the Strixes. That maintains the mana distribution. I know Trygon is nice to have in certain matches, but it seems a lot less necessary in the with 4 Decays.

Edric, Spymaster of Trest

Trest Tribal :cool:

Seriously though perhaps it could be ok as a 1-of in order to turn your Strixes into a secondary draw engine?

[Poron]

Imho, Notion Thief is strictly better.
The only upside there is a little more thoughtness (resist to Pyroclasm, Forked Bolt and Disfigure).

And the veeeery light protection (it still allows the opponent to destroy whatever he needs, it just nets you a card).

Thief has Flash and give you so much more card advantage immediately to make the second ability of Leo almost useless.

Brainstorm into Thief can is gg >50% of the times

[KobeBryan]

Imho, Notion Thief is strictly better.
The only upside there is a little more thoughtness (resist to Pyroclasm, Forked Bolt and Disfigure).

And the veeeery light protection (it still allows the opponent to destroy whatever he needs, it just nets you a card).

Thief has Flash and give you so much more card advantage immediately to make the second ability of Leo almost useless.

Brainstorm into Thief can is gg >50% of the times

You're not looking enough of this.

you get to draw on wastelands, ports, jittes, sword triggers, tendrils counters, jace triggers, liliana sacrifice creature triggers.

[ChaosOS]

Thief isn't as proactive as a play, and is 4 mana instead of 3. Thief comes down t3 or later, while Leovold can come down t2 on the play via DRS.

[rufus]

Hi again,
after somebody mentioned symmetric effects are likely so-so irl (looking at you,Howling Mine), unless they can be controlled... I did done some diggin, searching for more synergistic spells. Here are my top three finds:
...

I think the idea is to find good (or maybe just OK) cards that can stand up on their own but also pair up well with Leovold.

[klaus]

I think the idea is to find good (or maybe just OK) cards that can stand up on their own but also pair up well with Leovold.

I'm mostly with you on this one, and I'm not a big fan of two card combo approaches that feature spells that suck on their own, yet I did play Thopters.dec for a while :wink:
After realizing that Holwing Mine was bad, not due to its symmectric effect, but due to its uncontrollability, my next step was to dig for potent spells that can indeed be controlled/timed, do have a more or less relevant effect on their own and go nutz while Leo sticks around.

In this light, Dakra Mystic reads:
pay :u: & tap during your opponent's turn, draw a card / chump block a fatty to buy time / ping for one if the road is clear / flashback Therapy and take off a TitI token, pitch to FoW (some improvements over Mine, I daresay)

Lorebroker reads:
Tap during your opponent's turn, draw a card, then discard one (for Angler/DRS fodder), s.a. [...] + your opponent discards a card.

Day's Undoing reads:
Unless the board state is terribad, you win the game. Also: double-screw you Reanimator, Loam.dec, Dredge.dec, etc..

I'm not saying those cards will rock your world, but I'm positive they, and probably some that have yet to be discovered are worth testing.

[Dark Ritual]

Day's undoing is a neat card to pair with Leo indeed. As for this in comparison to thief, there's no comparison. Thief hits things that draw cards. This hits those AND wasteland, port, jitte, tendrils, burn, decay, and a ton of stuff that's used in legacy. Not to mention you can GSZ for Leo. 3 CMC vs. 4 is also a world of difference in a format with 1 cmc mana dorks namely DRS.

Could just slot him into a shardless BUG type of shell. Elves could use him as a GSZ target. BUG Delver could use him. Aluren could use him too. I find his ability to find mindbreak trap after they target you with a bunch of tendrils to be hilarious and also very good as it means they need to answer him before they tendrils or risk a blowout.

Dakra mystic is super nice with him. Remember when that card came out it had some potential. With Leo dakra mystic could be good in a delve BUG shell.

[Barook]

Imho, Notion Thief is strictly better.
The only upside there is a little more thoughtness (resist to Pyroclasm, Forked Bolt and Disfigure).

And the veeeery light protection (it still allows the opponent to destroy whatever he needs, it just nets you a card).

Thief has Flash and give you so much more card advantage immediately to make the second ability of Leo almost useless.

Brainstorm into Thief can is gg >50% of the times
Aside from being cheaper, Leovold can be grabbed by GSZ, which his huge imho.

[rufus]

...
I'm not saying those cards will rock your world, but I'm positive they, and probably some that have yet to be discovered are worth testing.

Yeah, I was looking at Cephalid Coliseum and Dack Fayden as interesting choices, but those would stretch the mana base pretty hard, and I'm not sure compulsive research is a viable legacy card.

There's also the 'other half' of Leo: he's good with permanents that draw targeted hate, and those tend to be decent cards in their own right, even if getting multiple creatures swept can be painful.

[Cambriel]

There's also the 'other half' of Leo: he's good with permanents that draw targeted hate, and those tend to be decent cards in their own right, even if getting multiple creatures swept can be painful.

He's quite fun with Bob. Kill him, I get a card. Don't kill him, I get a card.

[MorphBerlin]

He's quite fun with Bob. Kill him, I get a card. Don't kill him, I get a card.

Unfortunatly Bob is CMC 2 so should come down before him normally

[Cambriel]

Unfortunatly Bob is CMC 2 so should come down before him normally

And if they pop it, that's a removal spell they can't aim at Leo. It "costs" you the opportunity to draw a card, but likely means Leo himself is safer.

I suddenly have the urge to call this deck "Bob & Leo Bug Everyone."

[kirkusjones]

And if they pop it, that's a removal spell they can't aim at Leo. It "costs" you the opportunity to draw a card, but likely means Leo himself is safer.

I suddenly have the urge to call this deck "Bob & Leo Bug Everyone."

All I can picture now is Uncle Leo from Seinfeld.

https://media.giphy.com/media/RGXKL7Meb3YvS/giphy.gif

STOP WITH ALL THE EXTRA DRAWING!!! YOU'RE ON A VERY FIXED INCOME!

[Hank Zhong]

This card is pretty busted...no need to play bad cards to make a good card even better.

A straightforward bug mid-range deck like shardless bug would be a good starting shell for this. It's also fine as a 1 or 2 of in grixis and bug delver.

4 DRS
2 noble hierarch
4 Goyf
3 Bob
2 strix
4 Leovold
2 LotV
1 JtMS
4 BS
4 FOW
1 spell pierce
1 flusterstorm
4 abrupt decay
2 thoughtseize

19 colored sources
3 wasteland

Main advantage of this build is you get to play cheaper interaction now that you don't have shardless agent, so you're better vs. combo.

Leovold just shuts down so many decks that it shouldn't be difficult to win if he sticks around.

[UseLess]

That list looks pretty smooth. I love the Dark confidant suggestion, it's my favorite card so I'll definitely try it out. I'm quite busy this week but I'll try to update the OP in the weekend.

[paulnatta]

Here is my initial list for Leovold's Puzzle Box.

4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Cephalid Looter
3 Leovold, Emissary of Trest
3 Notion Thief

3 Engineered Explosives
4 Abrupt Decay
2 Liliana of the Veil
3 Spell Pierce
2 CounterspellI wa
4 Force of Will
4 Brainstorm
1 Temple Bell
2 Teferi's Puzzle Box

1 Cephalid Coliseum
1 Creeping Tarpit
2 Wasteland
9 Dual Lands
8 Fetch Lands

Leo & Thief both shine with puzzle box and will most likely get a scoop up. I wanted to get the combo out quickly, but have other effect to abuse Leo & Thief anti draw. I really liked Cephalid Looter and Coliseum as an instant discard, but can dig too to find missing pieces. I initially had 3 looters and 1 Cephalid Broker, but it would be too heavy at the 4 drop. Other "blue discard" include Wistful Thinking and Careful Consideration.

Since our creatures are mostly above 3cmc i thought EE would be an efficient sweeper in addition to Abrupt Decay and Liliana of the Veil. Bounce is also insane with Puzzle Box, so, Vapor Snag, Silent Departure, Boomerang or Cyclonic Rift would be good.

[UseLess]

To start with a note: I have played notion thief in Nic Fit. It sucks. Ass. Hairy and sweaty ass. Yes it's great on a brainstorm when not killed/countered. But most of the time it just sucks. Four mana is a world of difference compared to three. And a 3/1 body dies to everything so you can't ever attack with it.

I did some very brief testing. A version with Gurmag Angler was terrible, never managed to cast it, also 4 Leovold was too much. Sucks to draw him in multiples and makes opening hands awkward. Now having a version with Tarmogoyf and GSZ and two veteran explorer. Works much better, but not really thanks to Leovold :/. This is in 3(?) games of testing, but still better than nothing. I still love the card, so I hope to find the right shell for it.

[MaximumC]

To start with a note: I have played notion thief in Nic Fit. It sucks. Ass. Hairy and sweaty ass. Yes it's great on a brainstorm when not killed/countered. But most of the time it just sucks. Four mana is a world of difference compared to three. And a 3/1 body dies to everything so you can't ever attack with it.

I did some very brief testing. A version with Gurmag Angler was terrible, never managed to cast it, also 4 Leovold was too much. Sucks to draw him in multiples and makes opening hands awkward. Now having a version with Tarmogoyf and GSZ and two veteran explorer. Works much better, but not really thanks to Leovold :/. This is in 3(?) games of testing, but still better than nothing. I still love the card, so I hope to find the right shell for it.

I feel like Leo is more at home in Vintage, where he's a turn 1 or 2 play and he messes with everything Gush wants to do. In Legacy, he's coming down after they've had plenty of time to play with their Brainstorms and Ponders and so on.

[johanessen]

Arcane Denial is the nuts here.

[Finn]

Just want to point out that Arcane Denial is also good with Cavern of Souls for a nifty Ancestral Recall impersonation.

[Fox]

Just want to point out that Arcane Denial is also good with Cavern of Souls for a nifty Ancestral Recall impersonation.
I've run the card [Arcane Denial] before, but it's not the most playable. Leovold is a cool card, but there is a lack of Lotus Petal decks willing to run Arcane Denial (settling on no backup value plan, self-countering mid/late-game Petals), no Shardless decks run it alongside cascade (counter your own Agent but draw 3 while benefiting from additional countermagic), and it's much easier to really get someone with Denial and Notion Thief.

You have to be competing on a pretty degenerate axis to dust off a card like Arcane Denial - this isn't a card that goes with generically good BUG cards being played straight-up. When you start to care about the implications of stacking the two distinct upkeep draw triggers, whether or not you're the AP or NAP, then you're in the market for Arcane Denial. The effect of :1::u: counter and draw is generically good [unimaginative, but good]...on a card that is generally bad (and not used for that reason).

[Cambriel]

I realize this is the SCD thread and there's a proper deck thread for this, but has anyone just tried jamming Leovold into Food Chain? Seems like a better choice than that eldrazi exile guy, Shardless, or maybe even Clique.

I've been on a Tezzerator / Daretti kick or I'd sleeve it up and try it.

[ashent]

Alright, so I'm a Shardless and BUG Delver player primarily, and I didn't believe in this card when it was spoiled, but I picked two up anyway and have been working on him a little bit.

First thing was just trying out 2 copies in a grindy BUG midrange list with Daze to back him up. Since we're cutting Shardless Agent, we get a lot of space to play more counter magic (with even more jammed into the board like Flusterstorm and Mindbreak Trap especially) and just win off our reactive spells and good creatures. One of the worst parts about being a Shardless player is feeling like such a dog to dedicated combo decks. Leo seems like a perfect way to combat this.

Originally I wanted 2 LotV and 1 JtMS as the top-end, but I ran into the same problem I always do when trying to play reactive spells in the same shell as Liliana: we want to hold cards but we also want to tick her up. Jace may end up still working out, but I ended up cutting the Planeswalkers and making a more creature-centric list. I am well aware that the Snapcasters are likely not going to find a lot of support here but I am trying it, allowing the hand disruption package, the Brainstorms, Disfigures, the Dismember, the Ponder, and the Abrupt Decays pull double-duty if necessary, especially since Leo is hopefully drawing us cards and we're making good land drops. Initial list:

Lands: 20 (started at 22 but I cut a Creeping Tar Pit and a Wasteland) - this manabase is likely completely incorrect, just what I came up with by feel. Note: Possibly cut down to 2 Wastelands and fit a basic in here? Maybe a Swamp and a Forest and shave a fetch)
2 Bayou
3 Underground Sea
3 Tropical Island
4 Polluted Delta
1 Misty Rainforest
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Wasteland

Creatures: 15
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Leovold, Emissary of Trest (3?)
2 Baleful Strix
2 Snapcaster Mage (pet card - cut for more instants, too mana hungry, not what 'goyf deck wants to be doing)
1 True-Name Nemesis (pet card, likely not good, this could easily just be another Strix)

Instants / Sorceries: 24

1 Ponder
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
4 Daze
2 Hymn to Tourach
2 Thoughtseize
2 Disfigure
1 Dismember
4 Abrupt Decay

Others: 1

1 Sylvan Library

Sideboard: 15 (It's difficult to come up with a solid sideboard as I appreciate when people have a solid maindeck and a real plan with their sb, instead of just a pile of good cards. Because of that, I spent very little time on this)

2 Flusterstorm
2 Spell Pierce
2 Krosan Grip
2 Dread of Night
1 Dismember
1 Baleful Strix
2 Liliana of the Veil
1 Garruk Relentless
2 Grafdigger's Cage

[H]

[HR]Alright, so I'm a Shardless and BUG Delver player primarily, and I didn't believe in this card when it was spoiled, but I picked two up anyway and have been working on him a little bit.

First thing was just trying out 2 copies in a grindy BUG midrange list with Daze to back him up. Since we're cutting Shardless Agent, we get a lot of space to play more counter magic (with even more jammed into the board like Flusterstorm and Mindbreak Trap especially) and just win off our reactive spells and good creatures. One of the worst parts about being a Shardless player is feeling like such a dog to dedicated combo decks. Leo seems like a perfect way to combat this.

I posted an experimental list over here in the Team America Midrange Thread (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?23429-Deck-Team-America-(Midrange-Control-Thread)&p=968721&viewfull=1#post968721). I don't know that I'd want Daze in the same deck as Leo, but I haven't been able to get in any games in over 8 weeks due to real-life stuff. The idea of the list is really to use GSZ to keep the stream of threats coming, from Deathrite early to 'Goyf and Leo later.

[Secretly.A.Bee]

I'm having a lot of success with him as a 3-4 of in BUGStill. With a Leovold and a Standstill out, if they try to kill him, you draw 4(!) cards, and with DRS you can play him turn 2, or on curve through daze. He turns off Standstill for your opponent if for some reason you have to pop it. For the storm matchup I play 2 Flusterstorm and 2 Mind Break Trap, so that when they Tendrils or Grapeshot you, you draw a bunch of cards and have a high percentage chance of drawing an answer. Between that and 3/3 split on FoW and Thoughtseize, 2 CB main (1 board) and 3 Top and a single Counterspell, I feel really good about the storm combo matchup. I love this version I have built. Oh, and my Miracles matchup is really good so far.

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[non-inflammable]

Would anvil of bogardan be good with Leo?

[Secretly.A.Bee]

I doubt it. I don't understand why you guys think a combo list is the way to go. Only having access to 4 of a certain effect is pretty lousy as far as a continuous effector is concerned, ask aluren. And then pair that with it dying to every removal spell ever and you have a fringe list that *might be* "fun to play."

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[H]

I played 2 Leo in my BUG Midrange deck with 2 Green Sun's Zenith on Friday. I am pretty convinced he is the real deal. He was an absolute house versus Miracles and even great versus Burn. If you are in BUG I think you want to be playing some number of him, no doubt.

[mgrinshpon]

I'm having a lot of success with him as a 3-4 of in BUGStill. With a Leovold and a Standstill out, if they try to kill him, you draw 4(!) cards, and with DRS you can play him turn 2, or on curve through daze. He turns off Standstill for your opponent if for some reason you have to pop it. For the storm matchup I play 2 Flusterstorm and 2 Mind Break Trap, so that when they Tendrils or Grapeshot you, you draw a bunch of cards and have a high percentage chance of drawing an answer. Between that and 3/3 split on FoW and Thoughtseize, 2 CB main (1 board) and 3 Top and a single Counterspell, I feel really good about the storm combo matchup. I love this version I have built. Oh, and my Miracles matchup is really good so far.

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I came here just to post about how Standstill seems like a good shell. Would you mind posting your list?

[Secretly.A.Bee]

I suppose.

4 DRS
4 Leovold

1 JTMS (was MisD)
1 Garruk Relentless
1 LftLoam
1 Sylvan Library
3 Standstill
4 Brainstorm
3 SDT
2 CBalance
1 CSpell
3 FoW
3 Thoughtseize
3 ADecay
1 Maelstrom Pulse
2 Deed

2 Wasteland
2/3 Factory
1/2 CTPit
1 Island
1 Forest
1 Swamp
1 Bayou
2 Trop
3 USea
3 Delta
3 Misty
3 Verdant

Board
1 Needle
1 Grafdigger's
2 MBT
3 Surgical
1 BEB
1 Hydroblast
2 Flusterstorm
1 CB
2 Reality Shift
1 Deluge

Edit: Don't everyone comment at once, now; take turns...


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