Amonkhet, a new Plane for the next Block

[H]

http://i.imgur.com/0Ppoz4l.jpg?1


The desert oasis of Amonkhet forges warriors. You have trained your entire life for a chance to face the Trials of the Five Gods and join the elite ranks of the Worthy. Using your strength, speed, and cunning, overcome deadly challenges and rise above the competition to claim an honored place in the Afterlife!


Set Name: Amonkhet (http://magic.wizards.com/en/content/amonkhet-info)

Block: Amonkhet

Number of Cards: 264

Prerelease Events: April 22-23, 2017

Release Date: April 28, 2017

Launch Weekend: April 28-30, 2017

Game Day: May 19-21, 2017

Magic Online Prerelease Events: May 5, 2017

Magic Online Release Date: May 8, 2017

Pro Tour Date: May 12, 2017

Official Three-Letter Code: AKH

Twitter Hashtag: #MTGAKH

Languages Available: English, Chinese Simplified, Chinese Traditional, French, German, Italian, Japanese, Korean, Portuguese, Russian, Spanish

MSRP: $3.99

So they finally got around to an Egyptian themed set. Neat. Just hope it is a little better (Eternal wise) than just Theros 2.0.

[Barook]

The more interesting part about the announcement was that Nicol Bolas rules the plane instead of just sitting on his ass.

[Ace/Homebrew]

INB4 Damnation reprint! :wink:


---------------------
Edit:
Huh... Looks like Nicol Bolas and some other walkers get new art:

Nicol Bolas is among the most powerful beings in the Multiverse–don't face him alone! Much like the original Archenemy release, Archenemy: Nicol Bolas pits you and two friends against a single powerful foe where you must work together to survive–or fall to Nicol Bolas himself.

The set contains four 60-card decks (with no new card content), four non-premium planeswalker cards with new art, and a 20-card scheme deck containing 20 all-new, unique schemes. Playable right out of the box without any additions!

Source (http://magic.wizards.com/en/content/archenemy-nicol-bolas-info)



2nd set of Amonkhet block is Hour of Devastation

Source (http://magic.wizards.com/en/content/hour-devastation-info)



Oh, and Modern Masters 3. Will contain reprints from Eighth Edition through M14.

Source (http://magic.wizards.com/en/content/modern-masters-2017-info)

[H]

The more interesting part about the announcement was that Nicol Bolas rules the plane instead of just sitting on his ass.

Possibly also a new Bolas 'Walker being printed? That will probably be in the later set though.

The mention of Gods certainly puts the possibility of Theros style Gods returning on the table. Interesting about the mention of The Afterlife as a key point. Perhaps some kind of new Haunt mechanic or hopefully something better. Perhaps cards that have a function while Exiled?


INB4 Damnation reprint! :wink:

Please, let's only discuss things that are actually possible, :laugh:

[Begle1]

I bet Elspeth comes backs. She went to the underworld in Greek world, so it seems perfect to come back from the underworld in Egyptian world... Along with super-pushed Bolas card.

More God cards seem a shoe-in, maybe without devotion though.

What else screams Egypt?

Mummies?
Pyramids?
Chariots?
Crocodiles?
Shaven body hair?

[rufus]

...
What else screams Egypt?
...

There are early cards that specifically reference Egypt, though I think they're all on the reserved list, and WotC has done a bunch of stuff that's very Egyptian under the aegis of 'generic fantasy'.

Gods with animal heads (i.e. Ra, Anubis, Bastet, Set, Heqet, and so on) and the corresponding animals (hawks, frogs, jackals, shas, and cats). Sphinxes, scarabs, obelisks, pyramids, reed boats, the Nile, and snakes also come to mind. There's also the North Africa stuff which features a lot of what we'd consider to be generic desert and coastal themes.

[TsumiBand]

MtG: Stargate: SG confirmed

https://i.imgflip.com/19thoj.jpg (https://imgflip.com/i/19thoj)

[jmlima]

Ahhh. Dragons... That most important of creatures in the Egyptian mythology.

[Cartesian]

The long awaited return of...
http://magiccards.info/scans/en/4e/12.jpg

[H]

The long awaited return of...

Indeed, since Mummies are now Zombies and Zombies seem to be the "default" Black tribe, I think that seeing Mummies in Amonkhet is as close to a lead pipe lock as we could come up with.

[MaximumC]

Indeed, since Mummies are now Zombies and Zombies seem to be the "default" Black tribe, I think that seeing Mummies in Amonkhet is as close to a lead pipe lock as we could come up with.

Shockingly few true "Mummies" in Magic. I assume, sadly, that they will all simply add to the Zombie tribe.

Desert reprint, anyone? WRECK that Limited!

[H]

Shockingly few true "Mummies" in Magic. I assume, sadly, that they will all simply add to the Zombie tribe.

Desert reprint, anyone? WRECK that Limited!

Unless they decide to change it again, but I can't see it happen, then all this "new" tribe has no support from any older cards. We'll just have to accept our new (old) Zombie-Pharaoh overlords.

[civet five]

If Nicol Bolas isn't common, then he isn't the theme

[Scott]

Indeed, since Mummies are now Zombies and Zombies seem to be the "default" Black tribe, I think that seeing Mummies in Amonkhet is as close to a lead pipe lock as we could come up with.

Shockingly few true "Mummies" in Magic.

Mother of Runes reprint confirmed.

[Spam]

Wizard: "Whe have listened to the old players demands about the reserved list, and how this list prevented them from playing with the cards they love in the eternal formats. That's why I'm proud to announce that Pyramid will been taken off the reserved list and it will be reprinted in this set.
Please do rejoice in a composed manner."
http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=911&type=card

[joven]

Egyptian mythology as theme could be great. Enough of the Alien and Technology stuff and back to good old fantasy and mythology!

Wegde theme would be nice, since Nicol Bolas is notoriously Grixis.
A new take on Theros-style Gods would be crazy, although Theros isn't that long ago.

I just hope Nicol Bolas won't be just killed off with a fingersnap by the childish Gatewatch like Ulamog, Kozilek and Emrakul with spoiling the story event cards way too soon! :/

[H]

Since we know these "Masterpiece" reprints will all be themed and in every new set, I wonder what they might be for this coming block.

Since BFZ had Lands (Zendikar-Land connection would be obvious) and now Kaladesh is Artifacts, I wonder where they will be taking it in this new set? Perhaps Creatures, a la, the tag line "the desert oasis of Amonkhet forges warriors?" Returning powerful Creatures as "elite ranks of the Worthy?"

[Richard Cheese]

Since we know these "Masterpiece" reprints will all be themed and in every new set, I wonder what they might be for this coming block.

Since BFZ had Lands (Zendikar-Land connection would be obvious) and now Kaladesh is Artifacts, I wonder where they will be taking it in this new set? Perhaps Creatures, a la, the tag line "the desert oasis of Amonkhet forges warriors?" Returning powerful Creatures as "elite ranks of the Worthy?"

I'm gonna go with non-reserved list reprints from Arabian Nights and Mirage/Visions.

[H]

I'm gonna go with non-reserved list reprints from Arabian Nights and Mirage/Visions.

While flavorful, what would be any sort of a draw there? The most valuable cards in the set that aren't on the Reserve List is Erhnam Djinn and Oubliette which is fine, but Erham sees absolutely no play (and has been printed numerous, numerous times) except in Old School, while Oubliette does, but only for Pauper.

It gets worse in Mirage, where Enlightened Tutor is the highest value non-Reserve List card, which isn't really all that exciting, but you do see the other top-deck tutors there.

Visions doesn't get too much better, with Vampiric Tutor, Natural Order but there is a precipitous drop off after, all the way to Desertion which is pretty bad.

I feel like we'll see a bunch of Egytpian themed reprints of Dark Confidant and others like that, although which others (maybe even Tarmogyf?) I can't think of off-hand.

[Stan]

Serendib Efreet perhaps? Wildfire Emissary? Desert?


While flavorful, what would be any sort of a draw there? The most valuable cards in the set that aren't on the Reserve List is Erhnam Djinn and Oubliette which is fine, but Erham sees absolutely no play (and has been printed numerous, numerous times) except in Old School, while Oubliette does, but only for Pauper.

It gets worse in Mirage, where Enlightened Tutor is the highest value non-Reserve List card, which isn't really all that exciting, but you do see the other top-deck tutors there.

Visions doesn't get too much better, with Vampiric Tutor, Natural Order but there is a precipitous drop off after, all the way to Desertion which is pretty bad.

I feel like we'll see a bunch of Egytpian themed reprints of Dark Confidant and others like that, although which others (maybe even Tarmogyf?) I can't think of off-hand.

[ESG]

Since we know these "Masterpiece" reprints will all be themed and in every new set, I wonder what they might be for this coming block.

Ancient Tomb.

[H]

Serendib Efreet perhaps? Wildfire Emissary? Desert?

Flavor wins for sure, but certainly not eye catching like Mana Crypt or Mana Vault. What is the headliner there?


Ancient Tomb.

Now that I feel is pretty damn certain. Both a great (playable) card and a flavor win.

[Ace/Homebrew]

Now that I feel is pretty damn certain.
I disagree, it was an Expedition in BfZ/Oath.

I think you are looking at it the wrong way... 'Egypt Matters' isn't a theme.

BfZ - Lands matter - Land Expeditions
Kaladesh - Artifacts matter - Artifact Inventions

The Masterpiece from Amonkhet will try to showcase the "'blank' matters" theme of the set. And unfortunately at this point we don't have enough to go on to make an educated guess on Amonkhet's theme. Knowing that there will be 5 gods on this plane is reminiscent of Theros and 'enchantment matters', but I kinda doubt WotC would be that lazy. Unless they are admitting the block sucked thematically and are trying to redeem themselves...

[H]

I disagree, it was an Expedition in BfZ/Oath.

I think you are looking at it the wrong way... 'Egypt Matters' isn't a theme.

BfZ - Lands matter - Land Expeditions
Kaladesh - Artifacts matter - Artifact Inventions

The Masterpiece from Amonkhet will try to showcase the "'blank' matters" theme of the set. And unfortunately at this point we don't have enough to go on to make an educated guess on Amonkhet's theme. Knowing that there will be 5 gods on this plane is reminiscent of Theros and 'enchantment matters', but I kinda doubt WotC would be that lazy. Unless they are admitting the block sucked thematically and are trying to redeem themselves...

Good point. If the X-matters scheme continues, I would go with my initial prediction that this one will be creatures, based off what scant inference we can make based off the tag line.

[Infinitium]

I'm going to go with graveyard interactions-themed set. Possibly monuments subset of artifacts to tie in with Kaladesh?

[Ace/Homebrew]

I'm going to go with graveyard interactions-themed set. Possibly monuments subset of artifacts to tie in with Kaladesh?
Graveyard matters! I could see that. That's probably why they went with Madness instead of Flashback in Innistrad 2 (besides the whole 'Emrakul's making me craaaazy' thing).

So maybe Bridge from Below, Entomb, Goryo's Vengeance...

[jrsthethird]

It's a shame Pyramids is such a shitty card.

[slave]

Since the only Egypt-style cards I remember are zombies - Vengeful Pharaoh etc. - and the afterlife is the topic - I think a graveyard theme may be fairly accurate.

[PirateKing]

Bridge from Below maybe?

[bruizar]

City of Brass is highly likely.

[Firefraise]

Perhaps it'll be a aura-matters expension, with the return of the curse mechanic. That would fit flavour-wise. But what auras could be considered worthy of a "masterpiece" treatment then?

[CptHaddock]

Perhaps it'll be a aura-matters expension, with the return of the curse mechanic. That would fit flavour-wise. But what auras could be considered worthy of a "masterpiece" treatment then?

All the ones that I can think of are reserved list items i.e. chains, the abyss, etc. Other than that I don't think there are many enchantments that would be considered masterpieces, maybe counterbalance?

[H]

Bridge from Below maybe?

I think this would be pretty neat, since Bridge is barely an actual Magic card, I actually would like it to have some cockamamie boarder.


Perhaps it'll be a aura-matters expension, with the return of the curse mechanic. That would fit flavour-wise. But what auras could be considered worthy of a "masterpiece" treatment then?

God, I hope not. Every time they try to make an "enchantments matter" set, it either sucks (Theros) or the whole theme is so minor as to be irrelevant (Urza's Block). Enchantments really are Magic's red-headed stepchildren, which is really stupid and shitty, but it just is what it is now.

Once they made colored Artifacts, the design space for Enchantments was so reduced as to now largely be an afterthought. Auras are also largely a joke, as Equipment is so much better, unless you are playing Modern Boggles for some reason. Masterpiece enchantments would be a joke, the only ones worth anything/exciting/actually playable are basically all on the Reserve List.

[Cire]

Once they made colored Artifacts, the design space for Enchantments was so reduced as to now largely be an afterthought. Auras are also largely a joke, as Equipment is so much better, unless you are playing Modern Boggles for some reason. Masterpiece enchantments would be a joke, the only ones worth anything/exciting/actually playable are basically all on the Reserve List.

True - but there is still design space for Auras I think. For example - why are there no aura's as powerful as the swords? Wizards has the space to PUSH auras hard. To combat the Boggle threat, I'm sure they can figure out some hate cards or whatever.

[H]

True - but there is still design space for Auras I think. For example - why are there no aura's as powerful as the swords? Wizards has the space to PUSH auras hard. To combat the Boggle threat, I'm sure they can figure out some hate cards or whatever.

Oh, indeed, there is plenty of hypothetical design space to make Auras relevant. Rarely is it ever developed or used though. Gryff's Boon is actually a great example of a simple and not all that overpowered way to make an Aura playable. Granted, not Eternal playable in that example, but that mechanic certainly could be, if pushed.

Do they really want another "Enchantment" block right now though? Theros wasn't all that long ago, was it?

[Fox]

I'm gonna go with non-reserved list reprints from Arabian Nights and Mirage/Visions.
In general, the mechanical complexity of cards [not due to poor wording] was at its peak in Mirage/Visions; I doubt there are that many cards simple enough for limited/standard/modern which can be reprinted from those sets and come close to capturing the feel of that block.

[bruizar]

Perhaps the Wish cycle could make a return. Wishes fit with the djinn/efreet theme and Ring of Ma'Ruff first introduced the mechanic in the Arabian Nights. This won't happen if the master pieces will be called Monuments or Relics though. They could also pull the unthinkable, and abolish the reserved list for Master Pieces. This is what I am speculating on.

[Barook]

They could also pull the unthinkable, and abolish the reserved list for Master Pieces. This is what I am speculating on.
Could be possible, given the success of EMA, but I wouldn't count on it. And even then, it's probably going to take years before they take that step.

[PirateKing]

If Burning Wish wasn't the most valuable and just reprinted in Conspiracy then I'd like those chances.
Plus I think they made a choice to not have them in Modern.

[slave]

Oh, indeed, there is plenty of hypothetical design space to make Auras relevant.
They should just print aura's that help to negate the downside. IE. fuel their own recursion - like Rancor etc.

[rufus]

They should just print aura's that help to negate the downside. IE. fuel their own recursion - like Rancor etc.

Or like bestow, but not grossly expensive to cast?

[TsumiBand]

Man, fuck Bestow. If they really wanted to make Auras playable, they'd give them "Splice onto Creature" so instead of assembling your Voltron you just cast it in one piece. Still susceptible to counters but at least you couldn't get fucked by a burn spell.

[AnvilOfCrom]

Aside from the Theme of the Block, i'm hoping that Djinn and Efreet make a big comeback in Amonkhet. Although i think its not very likely because those creatures are more bond to an "Arabian Style World" (like, well, Arabian Nights) and not an Egyptian one.

[LeoCop 90]

I hope they print some fucking goblin. I mean, in kaladesh there are gremlins - i say GREMLINS - instead of goblins. I really don't understand why they never print any decent goblin.... years have passed and the last relevant goblins were krenko and grenzo (and by relevant, i mean remotely playable, not certainly autoincludes nor busted cards). It's even more absurd because the tribal aspect of goblins would give room to print busted cards without warping standard at all.

At least, tuk tuk the explorer has a somewhat egyptian flavor, and this gives me hope for new goblins in amonkhet.

[Fox]

Aside from the Theme of the Block, i'm hoping that Djinn and Efreet make a big comeback in Amonkhet. Although i think its not very likely because those creatures are more bond to an "Arabian Style World" (like, well, Arabian Nights) and not an Egyptian one.
Actually I'd hope not, it'd be a real shame to see a legacy-playable come in with either of those creature types. The moment one or more got printed you'd just be giving miracles a reason to run Suleiman's Legacy. The hate is already way too good, and disproportionately benefits a problem deck.

[H]

Actually I'd hope not, it'd be a real shame to see a legacy-playable come in with either of those creature types. The moment one or more got printed you'd just be giving miracles a reason to run Suleiman's Legacy. The hate is already way too good, and disproportionately benefits a problem deck.

http://i.imgur.com/hZfM0iM.jpg

The art on that card is so glorious. I don't think I could ever be mad losing to a card with Kaja Foglio art.

[Fox]

The art on that card is so glorious. I don't think I could ever be mad losing to a card with Kaja Foglio art.
The answer is pseudo-serious. There is little chance that they would for instance print Djinn/Efreet strict upgrades to say Delver and Goyf in this one set. It would be a continuation of a problematic theme in legacy of spoon-feeding miracles more 1-card "not-losses" (i.e. wins). Imagine if Suleiman's Legacy said human, elf, or zombie...

[H]

The answer is pseudo-serious. There is little chance that they would for instance print Djinn/Efreet strict upgrades to say Delver and Goyf in this one set. It would be a continuation of a problematic theme in legacy of spoon-feeding miracles more 1-card "not-losses" (i.e. wins). Imagine if Suleiman's Legacy said human, elf, or zombie...

A fair point, I guess. However, as you say, that chances that a Djinn and/or an Efreet is anywhere near as good as let alone better than both is so small I think we can call it functionally zero.

Now, if there is a highly good Efreet/Djinn printed, say, something you'd play as a 2-of, that makes things very interesting, because how many do they board? Do you play Spell Snare to defend against it? BEB, Hydroblast? Can you fit it in with Decay, to fight this?

[Ace/Homebrew]

I'm confused... :confused:

Printing Legacy-playable Efreets and Djinns is bad because Miracles can play Suleiman's Legacy to deal with them?
Isn't that exactly like saying "Printing Legacy-playable Goblins is bad because Miracles can play Tivadar's Crusade to deal with them."

Or more hyperbolically, "Printing White cards is bad because Anarchy."

[TsumiBand]

Printing Legacy-playable Efreets and Djinns is bad because Miracles can play Suleiman's Legacy to deal with them?
Isn't that exactly like saying "Printing Legacy-playable Goblins is bad because Miracles can play Tivadar's Crusade to deal with them."

"Playable in Miracles" is the new "this card has Awesome". lol

[Fox]

I'm confused... :confused:

Printing Legacy-playable Efreets and Djinns is bad because Miracles can play Suleiman's Legacy to deal with them?
Isn't that exactly like saying "Printing Legacy-playable Goblins is bad because Miracles can play Tivadar's Crusade to deal with them."

Or more hyperbolically, "Printing White cards is bad because Anarchy."
We're getting a little off topic at this point, but there's a difference between 'kill x' and 'x can never happen.' The more apt comparison would be Tivadar's Crusade~Tormnod's Crypt whereas Suleiman's Legacy~Rest in Peace.

To bring us back on topic, there's not much in Visions/Mirage (moreso than AN) you can really reprint to recapture the feel of those sets without pretty detrimental implications. For a set like Mirage you can reprint the Guildmages, :2:cost mana rocks that enter tapped, and after that...random spells that are Dark Banishing levels of simple. Tutor cycle is out, Dragon cycle is out, anti-Dragon cycle then gets dropped, can't have anything that kills/swaps/changes a land, can't use Charm cycle, can't use "draw at the beginning of next turn's upkeep," no aura cycle (dies at next cleanup if cast as instant), no world enchants, definitely can't re-introduce flanking/phasing/rampage/color hate (landwalk and protection)/culm. upkeep/may only be cast at x time...

So it's all great and wonderful to hope we get some nostalgic reprints from those sets or new cards that thematically match (in spite of poor new-age art), but when that gets reduced to 'let's hope they print/reprint djinns/efreeti,' we're missing out on some pretty key existing interactions that are best left out of legacy (in the event that eternal playables are introduced).

If you really wanted the Mirage block feel, I think KTK is about as close as you're going to get (and I don't think many people liked KTK b/c it felt like Mirage).

[Ace/Homebrew]

Yeah, I think we're not fully following each other's meaning.

My point was that Miracles will never play Suleiman's Legacy regardless of how many good Efreets or Djinns WotC prints because they are creatures and Miracles doesn't need sideboard cards to answer creatures. Amonkhet can have 20 functionally similar Tarmogoyfs of creature-type Djinn, and Miracles still won't touch Suleiman's Legacy.

[Richard Cheese]

Unless they print a Djinn that can't be countered, has hexproof, and can bounce/flickerwisp itself for :0:, Miracles won't give a shit. Terminus > Creatures. Subtypes don't really matter.

Personally, I'm just hoping for a return of the Scarab cycle.

[joven]

Aside from the Theme of the Block, i'm hoping that Djinn and Efreet make a big comeback in Amonkhet. Although i think its not very likely because those creatures are more bond to an "Arabian Style World" (like, well, Arabian Nights) and not an Egyptian one.

As you say yourself: (Ancient) Egyptian (Mythology) is not Arabian (Mythology).

[jrsthethird]

Cat tribal?

[Rocco111]

Sphinx... Sphinx everywhere...

[Meekrab]

Wouldn't Djinns and Efreets just be Creature - Spirit Warrior now anyway?

[wcm8]

Wouldn't Djinns and Efreets just be Creature - Spirit Warrior now anyway?

No, they retain their specificity in Gatherer. Juzam Djinn's creature type is Djinn, and Frenetic Efreet's is Efreet. Hence, Suleiman's Legacy is still relevant against those sorts of creatures.

While djinn and efreet aren't 'Egyptian', it's still plausible that there could be stylistic overlap. After all, Mirage and Visions had some African elements in their design, in addition to the Arabian Nights stuff. I'm sure Amonkhet could also incorporate multiple mythological themes in its block.

[iatee]

It's time to ask ourselves a serious question - should Suleiman's Legacy be banned?

[thecrav]

No.

[H]

There were efreets and djinn as recently as Dragons of Tarkir. Pretty sure both are still considered supported types. Not that I am sure they'd be in here, but I could see a few maybe.

[Fox]

There were efreets and djinn as recently as Dragons of Tarkir. Pretty sure both are still considered supported types. Not that I am sure they'd be in here, but I could see a few maybe.
It is comparatively rare to find "normal" casting on these creature types. They either had a 50% chance of being phased out while in play, could phase out in response, or just enter the battlefield face down which all conveniently get around the hate card. This trend isn't likely to stop, and morph probably isn't coming back so soon. These creature types necessarily have a lot of mechanical baggage, which people seem to forget when they talk about having them come back for a given set (and it has a real mana cost that largely eliminates eternal playability).

[Begle1]

People seriously think Suleiman's Legacy effects how they design Efreet and Djinns for Standard?

I seriously doubt that conversation ever happens. What creature types would need to be printed on that card for it to be Legacy playable? Humans? Eldrazi? And it'd still be sideboard material, fighting against other anti-creature cards like Humility.

A better question is whether they design minotaurs around Didgeridoo...

[H]

http://i.imgur.com/k46NLqc.jpg?1

New concept art, the cover from the Amonkhet Art Book. Full Sized here (http://i.imgur.com/bLnVtgB.jpg).

Can't pretend that the Egyptian concept doesn't appeal to me. Just hope it's better than Theros by way of playability.

[Nonex]

The first thing I noticed while the image was loading were those kinda horns at the background. And my first thought was "Oh, Nicol Bolas is behind everything again".

[Sidneyious]

The first thing I noticed while the image was loading were those kinda horns at the background. And my first thought was "Oh, Nicol Bolas is behind everything again".

Someone on reddit pointed out like 9 bolas horns in one image
I have low hopes for the next 10 sets

[Lemnear]

After Eldrazi its now Bolas again

[Cire]

Then comes phyrexia right? Please :cry:

[Barook]

The first thing I noticed while the image was loading were those kinda horns at the background. And my first thought was "Oh, Nicol Bolas is behind everything again".
It was right in the announcement that it's a plane ruled by Nicol Bolas. Suprise, suprise! :rolleyes:

And that chucklefuck deserves some spotlight after sitting on his ass for God knows how many sets while always being behind everything like a Saturday morning cartoon villain.

[CutthroatCasual]

I'm really excited for this block because I'm a big flavor fan. Kaladesh as a plane is great, and I hope that a dystopian Egypt is interesting as well.

[Meekrab]

It was right in the announcement that it's a plane ruled by Nicol Bolas. Suprise, suprise! :rolleyes:

And that chucklefuck deserves some spotlight after sitting on his ass for God knows how many sets while always being behind everything like a Saturday morning cartoon villain.
And there's definitely gonna be some neat aether powered Kaladeshi invention from Saheeli Rai in Aether Revolt that allows Ajani and the Breakfast League to follow Tezzeret when he flees back to Amonkhet to confront / hide behind Bolas.

[H]

http://i.imgur.com/O96Tjzo.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/mlTesRY.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/rA3Sqx5.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/N2YPBYt.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/fkkKosN.jpg

5 gods, presumably presented in Color order, so the cat is White, the heron is Blue, crocodile is Black, wolf is Red and the snake is Green?

Also, looks probable for 3 'walkers in the first set:

http://i.imgur.com/IT2LDPY.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/evDzvta.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/Ubh07S4.jpg

Certainly at least Lili and Gideon, considering the Intro decks are of them:

http://i.imgur.com/PhonK2Z.png

No abilities yet, but as you can see here (http://news.toyark.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/4/2017/02/DSC03607.jpg) those mockups show each with 3 abilities. Gideon with one plus, one zero, and one minus abilities. Lili with one plus, and two minus abilities, not that it matters, since they are Intro pack trash, no doubt.

[Barook]

Based on color composition, I would rather say the crocodile is red while the wolf is black. Although given how ambigious the arts are, they could very well be tripple color aka shards:

Cat - Bant
Bird - Esper
Crocodile - Jund
Wolf/Dog: Grixis
Snake: Naya

[Koby]

http://i.imgur.com/O96Tjzo.jpg


Meem, Cat-god of teh Webz

http://data.whicdn.com/images/20161286/large.jpg
(first posted by Zach Allen @a22en)

[H]

Based on color composition, I would rather say the crocodile is red while the wolf is black. Although given how ambigious the arts are, they could very well be tripple color aka shards:

Cat - Bant
Bird - Esper
Crocodile - Jund
Wolf/Dog: Grixis
Snake: Naya

I think 3 color is plausible, since we have actually already seen mono and duel colored Gods, but I somehow doubt that devotion is back. So, I wonder what the mechanics of them will/would be?

Also, I think there is a good chance we see Masterpiece Planeswalker cards.


Meem, Cat-god of teh Webz

http://data.whicdn.com/images/20161286/large.jpg
(first posted by Zach Allen @a22en)

Cat EDH to the next level.

[Dice_Box]

Some totally baseless speculation, what if they themselves are Mono coloured with coloured activated abilities? Those abilities "Awaken" the Gods?

[H]

Some totally baseless speculation, what if they themselves are Mono coloured with coloured activated abilities? Those abilities "Awaken" the Gods?

I like that and the implications for EDH, but it's tricky to make things both creatures and not. The Theros gods are interesting, because they are creatures (so they can be your General) and yet not (harder to remove).

Unless perhaps these are the reverse? Creatures, until they are not?

[Richard Cheese]

Maybe they aren't Gods, and R&D was just having trouble coming up with cards for..."urban" characters.


https://youtu.be/s8OWvDEtWmA?t=182

[joven]

The artworks aren't good, maybe except the big one of Liliana. I hate how much the faces of the planeswalkers change depending on which artist made the picture.
The god(?) artworks look all like "not-so-good" render art. :(

[Warden]

Black will have animate dead/dance of the dead/reanimate to some extent. Maybe necromancy?

Looking at the promo pictures from WOTC, the Liliana planeswalker (without text) is raising zombies in the backgroun. She's not Liliana of the Veil. Combine that with the black Pharaoh card mentioned earlier from a previous set and I think we got black's piece of the pie figured out. Whoever mentioned zombie/mummies is spot on. I don't see MTG pushing black to do anything else. This is black's wheelhouse: a drain life, a discard effect, morally corrupt people, the walking dead, and creating the walking dead.

Like Kamigawa, I don't have high hopes for this set. The flavor and potential is there. Artwork will be your cup of tea or something you hate. The execution will be lackluster. I just see WOTC missing the boat by not pursuing Anubis, Ra, Osiris, Pyramids, Egyptian rulers (Nefertiti), a Cleopatra figure (would be fascinating IMO), and older arabian nights/mirage/visions cards. Since Library of Alexandria is already a card (and beyond OP), there's no way we get that angle of Earth-based lore. Maybe the Lighthouse of Alexandria? Maybe some reference to the Nile? My bet is that we'll get white = cats/catfolk.

[LegacyIsAnEternalFormat]

https://www.reddit.com/r/magicTCG/comments/601481/get_a_translation_possible_spoiler_for_amonket/

looks pretty real to me...



Dusk (?) - 2ww

Sorcery

Destroy all creatures with power greater or equal to 3

Dawn (?) - 3ww

Sorcery

Consequence - Cast this spell only from your graveyard, then exile it.

Return all creature cards with power less than or equal to 2 from your graveyard to your hand.

[CptHaddock]

I like the card, it's been ages since they're printed anything resembling a wrath. That formatting of the card looks awful though, I thought they learned their lesson about trying to put 2 cards on 1 card during Kamigawa.

[alderon666]

I like the card, it's been ages since they're printed anything resembling a wrath. That formatting of the card looks awful though, I thought they learned their lesson about trying to put 2 cards on 1 card during Kamigawa.

The translation is spot on. But WTH is going on the bottom right of the card? It's almost like it's cut with a bevel?

Overall it looks pretty horrible. They just keep repeating the same thing over and over again? Kamigawa flip cards, split cards, fuse cards...

[rufus]

They could have set up the ability so that you have to have the spell resolve in order to make it work in the graveyard. (So you put it into your graveyard turned when it resolves.)

Maybe the blue one will be good with Sanity Grinding.

[ESG]

Looks awful. The Kamigawa flip cycle was the ugliest in all of Magic, but these will be next on the list, assuming that card is real.

[Barook]

Holy cow, that card design looks like ass. Who did greenlight this mess?

[Lemnear]

Holy cow, that card design looks like ass. Who did greenlight this mess?

And suddenly the Kamigawa Flip cards look like art masterpieces

[Soldier of Fortune]

That is fucking ugly :laugh:

[phonics]

Card design straight out of the Un sets.

[rufus]

Card design straight out of the Un sets.

Gah! Now I'm getting images of tripple-split cards in my head. They still look better than that travesty though.

Edit: I suppose the checklist cards are N-way split, and still seem like better graphic design that that thing. I wonder if any of them will be pushed enough to make eternal play.

[mistercakes]

Maybe led can be a functional black lotus...

[Darkenslight]

And suddenly the Kamigawa Flip cards look like art masterpieces

Guess we've found what the Masterpieces for Amonkhet are. :D

[Lemnear]

Why didn't they just use flip cards again but with a transform trigger once they hit the graveyard? Jesus Christ, what freaking idiot designed and agreed on that layout? Does this layout also try to tell me of how to order my graveyard? What if you are left-handed?

[Dice_Box]

It's not pretty, but it's not stupid. The lay out is practical. The card that you can play from your hand is set up in the vertical style that almost all spells have. At a glance, it looks like a spell you would cast along side all the others in your hand.

In the grave you can turn it side on, so it sticks out the side of your grave. Then you can look down, scan your grave and see this card you can cast at a glance.

I will admit it's ugly, but it's not without thought.

[TsumiBand]

Flip cards did not have a casting cost on their flipped side, because you weren't meant to cast them flipped and needed to know which side was 'up' at a glance. Split cards have never cared which zone they were in to be cast as far as I recall.

As a piece of art it's not great, but as a reminder of its function this is fine.

As a card(s)... Not in Legacy probably. But I do like the notion of a 4 mana Wrath that misses your White Weenie guys. The other effect is a little underwhelming at its cost.

Also, mistercakes is onto something. Not sure whether to hope he is right or not though, lol. Any spells that could just work with LED have to be given special attention.

[Lemnear]

I think that LED is probably the card you care the least for with this mechanic, given the creature focus of the game. I strongly doubt any game changing instant/sorcery is printed with this mechanic

[TsumiBand]

I think that LED is probably the card you care the least for with this mechanic, given the creature focus of the game. I strongly doubt any game changing instant/sorcery is printed with this mechanic

That's kind of what I meant by "special attention", I don't think they'll do it unless they go way out of their way to have a spell with a Consequence cost of cmc 3 or less, AND be worth the trouble... And even if they do it'll just be Blue anyway, right

[Lemnear]

That's kind of what I meant by "special attention", I don't think they'll do it unless they go way out of their way to have a spell with a Consequence cost of cmc 3 or less, AND be worth the trouble... And even if they do it'll just be Blue anyway, right

We both know that its pretty unlikely that the mechanic is used for useful effects, but will most likely end up on some random creatures, which can be cast from the graveyard as some stronger Mummy monster instead.

Its a mere pipe dream that WotC would print a discard spell, which could be flashbacked as creature removal or something of similar Legacy relevance.

[Dice_Box]

Forget Legacy, that would be unbalanced in Modern if it was cheep enough. If they don't want it in Modern, forget about us.

[Que]

Here is me wishing for a decent Consequence card to shove in Dredge. lol

[Lemnear]

Forget Legacy, that would be unbalanced in Modern if it was cheep enough. If they don't want it in Modern, forget about us.

You are right here.

Let me phrase the matter differently: Dear Modern Enthusiasts, which is the aspect of Modern/Standard you expect to be adressed/counteracted within this block of printings? Is there a chance these countermeasures would fit with the mechanic and potentially be strong enough to make a splash in Legacy?

[Sidneyious]

I miss the zen-isd standard.

I actually enjoyed standard.

[LegacyIsAnEternalFormat]

I can't understand why standards in the past were so much better than they are today even though WotC had much less money back in the day. I mean come on, if the problem is that there isn't enough playtesters then they should hire more playtesters, if the problem is bad design they need to fire some designers. Something needs to change because if Standard dies then Magic dies. Standard is the only way WotC can control power creep in the game and also keep selling packs. And their decisions are ridiculous, they ban 3 cards one time and then the next time around when there are at least 2 problem cards needed to be banned, they do nothing? I mean who the crap is making these decisions? If i were in control I would pretty much fire the entire R&D team, including Rosewater and hire new people. I mean I alone could probably make a better standard format than what theyve been doing just by taking community card designs and making a set out of them.

[Lemnear]

I can't understand why standards in the past were so much better than they are today even though WotC had much less money back in the day. I mean come on, if the problem is that there isn't enough playtesters then they should hire more playtesters, if the problem is bad design they need to fire some designers. Something needs to change because if Standard dies then Magic dies. Standard is the only way WotC can control power creep in the game and also keep selling packs. And their decisions are ridiculous, they ban 3 cards one time and then the next time around when there are at least 2 problem cards needed to be banned, they do nothing? I mean who the crap is making these decisions? If i were in control I would pretty much fire the entire R&D team, including Rosewater and hire new people. I mean I alone could probably make a better standard format than what theyve been doing just by taking community card designs and making a set out of them.

For me the formula seems to be pretty easy. Hasbro puts zero money into WotC and they can literally just print shit for players to throw money at them. Cut the player rewards, people dont mind. Cut the playtesting, players dont mind. Cut support for various formats, players dont mind.

Hasbro is glad to have MaRo collect money by reprinting the ever same effects with various names, costs and kicker-mechanics for a crowd which got their expectations for sets lowered over years, so why should Hasbro take action? Why should WotC? Why should anybody from the company break the asskissing chain ... pardon ... the mold? As long as MaRo is around, no fresh POV will ever renew the game. Even LaPille is allowed to meddle with new sets again, which we saw in the öast years of crap printed

[LegacyIsAnEternalFormat]

For me the formula seems to be pretty easy. Hasbro puts zero money into WotC and they can literally just print shit for players to throw money at them. Cut the player rewards, people dont mind. Cut the playtesting, players dont mind. Cut support for various formats, players dont mind.

Hasbro is glad to have MaRo collect money by reprinting the ever same effects with various names, costs and kicker-mechanics for a crowd which got their expectations for sets lowered over years, so why should Hasbro take action? Why should WotC? Why should anybody from the company break the asskissing chain ... pardon ... the mold? As long as MaRo is around, no fresh POV will ever renew the game. Even LaPille is allowed to meddle with new sets again, which we saw in the öast years of crap printed

I disagree that players don't mind, take a look around, the magic community especially the standard community has been complaining for years. I mean your right that the game has recently started declining with less sales and $$$, so hopefully that is what makes them change course, because if they keep this up no one is going to be playing standard and magic will die, but WotC has shown that they have the ability to turn things around when the game is about to die a few times or so.

[Lord Seth]

I miss the zen-isd standard.

I actually enjoyed standard.What Standard are you referring to? Zendikar and Innistrad were never legal together in Standard (they were separated by Scars of Mirrodin), and I doubt you're talking about recent or current Standards involving Battle for Zendikar and Shadow Over Innistrad (though I suppose if Collected Company was your favorite Magic card you probably had a blast with Dragons-Battle-SOI Standard)

[mistercakes]

I don't play standard, but aren't both the vehicle and energy mechanics novel?

[Darkenslight]

I don't play standard, but aren't both the vehicle and energy mechanics novel?

They are. However, they pushed the Cars hard, and the Energy not hard enough.

I'm currently playing a bizarre niche deck because I don't want to spend $300 on cards that are likely to get banned in five weeks.

[mistercakes]

i can't really comment to that, other than they should have tested more. my comment was only regarding the lack of innovation, which i don't think is as bad as it's made out to be. seems like the main problem that they aren't getting people innovating enough to test the cards. there is also the fact that with the speed of the mtgo data coming in, it's a lot easier to break the format than in the past.

maybe something that would be banned in 5 weeks would have happened over 10-20 weeks without this. just speculation, but maybe worth noting.

[Lord Seth]

I don't play standard, but aren't both the vehicle and energy mechanics novel?
I thought they were cool, at least in concept. People seem quick to blame Mark Rosewater for a bunch of the issues recently, and there are some issues I have with design, but the big problems are much more on the developmental side of things, which he has little or nothing to do with.

[Claymore]

I wonder if any of them will be pushed enough to make eternal play.

I'm sure something will be pushed just enough to make its way into Miracles, with a nice split mana cost to play along with Counterbalance.

[MaximumC]

I can't understand why standards in the past were so much better than they are today.

This is not necessarily true; you can point to extreme examples like Combo Winter with Urza's Saga, Affinity in Mirrodin, or Cawblade as being truly awful formats. After that, it's probably your personal taste whether you like standard.

What I think IS true, however, is that Standard formats get solved faster. We have at least three top competitive decks in Standard now. That seems perfectly healthy to me. But, if your idea of a fun metagame is one where there are six or ten or whatever decks with a legitimate shot at winning, then I think you actually have a point when you say the past was a better time for you.

That's not because there were not only one, two, maybe three top decks. Undoubtedly, there was. So, why could you legitimately expect a more diverse metagame anyway? Well, because: (1) the game was less serious and more casual, so even larger events were more like your FNM, with pet decks and all; and (2) the teams were not nearly as good as sharing information and testing hard to determine those best decks, "solving" the format quickly.

The point is that a rock-paper-sissors metagame is probably the gold standard for standard at the moment. Information is too free and too much money is involved now. People will solve formats fast. That's just life.

[Dice_Box]

Affinity was a wonderful time for magic. Myself and everyone I knew quit.

[UnderwaterGuy]

i can't really comment to that, other than they should have tested more. my comment was only regarding the lack of innovation, which i don't think is as bad as it's made out to be. seems like the main problem that they aren't getting people innovating enough to test the cards. there is also the fact that with the speed of the mtgo data coming in, it's a lot easier to break the format than in the past.

maybe something that would be banned in 5 weeks would have happened over 10-20 weeks without this. just speculation, but maybe worth noting.

If they create a new mechanic like energy counters and then don't utilize it enough to make even 1 card with the mechanic that matters outside Standard and Limited, does it really count as innovation?


I thought they were cool, at least in concept. People seem quick to blame Mark Rosewater for a bunch of the issues recently, and there are some issues I have with design, but the big problems are much more on the developmental side of things, which he has little or nothing to do with.

Design is what gives us year after year of kicker with a new name. I blame MaRa for bad design like the way that keywords are treated and probably the upcoming ugly Amonkhet split cards, not the power level of cards. Some new blood (the new blood of a hardcore oldschool fan) in the design team would be really welcome but I agree with you that development is the section of wotc that needs to be cleaned out. They are incompetent.

[Lord Seth]

This is not necessarily true; you can point to extreme examples like Combo Winter with Urza's Saga, Affinity in Mirrodin, or Cawblade as being truly awful formats. After that, it's probably your personal taste whether you like standard.
Combo Winter and Affinity were bad... but Caw-Blade actually did have some good aspects. Sure, you had one deck ruling the metagame, but the mirror was very skill intensive (unlike Combo Winter or Affinity where it was just a simple matter of speed). Quite a few players absolutely loved Caw-Blade Standard because of that. Obviously, a whole lot didn't, but I wouldn't call it truly awful.


What I think IS true, however, is that Standard formats get solved faster. We have at least three top competitive decks in Standard now. That seems perfectly healthy to me. But, if your idea of a fun metagame is one where there are six or ten or whatever decks with a legitimate shot at winning, then I think you actually have a point when you say the past was a better time for you.

That's not because there were not only one, two, maybe three top decks. Undoubtedly, there was. So, why could you legitimately expect a more diverse metagame anyway? Well, because: (1) the game was less serious and more casual, so even larger events were more like your FNM, with pet decks and all; and (2) the teams were not nearly as good as sharing information and testing hard to determine those best decks, "solving" the format quickly.I disagree with this. A lot of people complain about Standard getting solved too quickly due to better information and more people playing and all that stuff, but I notice that these complaints largely started recently. A year or two ago people weren't complaining as much. I don't think the players suddenly got all that much more amazing in that interim, and it's not like there wasn't tons of information being swapped two years ago either.

I think the problems come more from more recent factors. Right now, every Pro Tour is Standard. Every single one. Now it's true that the Pro Tour metagame doesn't always predict the actual metagame (there was a surprisingly small amount of Collected Company in the Top 8 of Pro Tour Eldritch Moon compared to what would be the metagame until rotation), but when you're offering a huge amount of money (well, by Magic: the Gathering standards) for people to solve the format, and you're doing it for every single set, it shouldn't be all that surprising that people figure it out quicker than if it were some events with a smaller prize payout. Up until 2015, you had only one or two Standard Pro Tours a year out of four, and that's counting the multiformat World Championship as a Standard Pro Tour. Sure, the reason all the Pro Tours are Standard are for arguably valid reasons (no one ever cared about Block Constructed and having Modern as a Pro Tour format incentivizes them to do a banning before every single one... then again, there was no Modern Pro Tour this year and they still banned stuff on that same schedule), but all of them being Standard does progress things more rapidly.

I also feel that many of the design/development shifts we've seen over the years have made it easier to solve. Wizards of the Coast is much more guilty of concentrating most of the power of a set into a relatively small number of cards (usually rares or mythics, how surprising). Since nothing else is able to be at the level of those, you end up with the big decks just being whatever is best able to take advantage of those cards. This is made even worse by the fact that they've cranked up the power of threats while reducing the power of answers, making those specific powerful cards even better. Now this kind of "all the best cards are the handful of chase rares/mythics!" isn't exactly new but they've gotten progressively worse at it.

[Lord Seth]

If they create a new mechanic like energy counters and then don't utilize it enough to make even 1 card with the mechanic that matters outside Standard and Limited, does it really count as innovation?Actually, Aether Hub has seen a small amount of play in Modern.

Still, I want to be fair to them on energy. The problem with a mechanic that's as much of a "build around" as that is if it's powerful enough to be a factor in something like Modern, it'll likely be way too good in Standard. It's not like Delve or Revolt where it can be more powerful in the larger formats, because Delve/Revolt gets more powerful because there are better enablers, whereas the only enablers for energy are the cards that produce energy, which would all be Standard legal. For energy to be a real force outside of Standard without breaking Standard, you'd have to make a bunch of energy cards, wait for them to rotate out, and then bring energy back in.

[LegacyIsAnEternalFormat]

I also feel that many of the design/development shifts we've seen over the years have made it easier to solve. Wizards of the Coast is much more guilty of concentrating most of the power of a set into a relatively small number of cards (usually rares or mythics, how surprising). Since nothing else is able to be at the level of those, you end up with the big decks just being whatever is best able to take advantage of those cards. This is made even worse by the fact that they've cranked up the power of threats while reducing the power of answers, making those specific powerful cards even better. Now this kind of "all the best cards are the handful of chase rares/mythics!" isn't exactly new but they've gotten progressively worse at it.

I agree this is a big problem, they're getting really greedy and its starting to backfire and hopefully they change what they're doing. It's either this or the R&D team is super incompetent and needs to be fired and replaced. Either way WotC must fix it, which ill think they do because they're great at getting their game out of the brink of death, or Magic will die finally

[UnderwaterGuy]

I agree this is a big problem, they're getting really greedy and its starting to backfire and hopefully they change what they're doing. It's either this or the R&D team is super incompetent and needs to be fired and replaced. Either way WotC must fix it, which ill think they do because they're great at getting their game out of the brink of death, or Magic will die finally

If there is somebody paying attention at wotc they should be humiliated that Spinter Twin combo was able to pass by the playtesting group and then within only a few years the exact same interaction made it past them again. There was no excuse the first time for not recognizing Kiki Jiki+Pestermite's reincarnation and after that led to a banning it's total incompetence to let the same combo happen again with Saheeli. I'm not against combo but the wotc employees either are not playtesting cards or the people that are playtesting cards are not good enough magic players, period. It's not about the combo being overpowered but just the fact that they didn't even notice it would happen.

That was a rant but yeah, I think they're incompetent.


Actually, Aether Hub has seen a small amount of play in Modern.

Still, I want to be fair to them on energy. The problem with a mechanic that's as much of a "build around" as that is if it's powerful enough to be a factor in something like Modern, it'll likely be way too good in Standard. It's not like Delve or Revolt where it can be more powerful in the larger formats, because Delve/Revolt gets more powerful because there are better enablers, whereas the only enablers for energy are the cards that produce energy, which would all be Standard legal. For energy to be a real force outside of Standard without breaking Standard, you'd have to make a bunch of energy cards, wait for them to rotate out, and then bring energy back in.

I agree totally. I didn't know that Aether Hub was being played in Modern but it makes sense since it's basically a slightly stronger Tendo Ice Bridge. Energy is so separate from other cards that it can only be good with a bunch of energy cards and it's probably intended for Limited.

[Claymore]

I disagree with this. A lot of people complain about Standard getting solved too quickly due to better information and more people playing and all that stuff, but I notice that these complaints largely started recently. A year or two ago people weren't complaining as much. I don't think the players suddenly got all that much more amazing in that interim, and it's not like there wasn't tons of information being swapped two years ago either.


I tend to agree. However, I do remember that Wizards in the past year or two (or more) started restricting the amount of MTGO daily data that was released because Standard was being solved too fast. Not sure if they rolled that back or not.

[Ace/Homebrew]

Dusk (?) - 2ww
Sorcery
Destroy all creatures with power greater or equal to 3

Dawn (?) - 3ww
Sorcery
Consequence - Cast this spell only from your graveyard, then exile it.
Return all creature cards with power less than or equal to 2 from your graveyard to your hand.
Google also translates 'consequencias' as 'aftereffect', which feels much more fitting to the ability. I know you didn't translate this, just kinda throwing it out there. :cool:

[Dice_Box]

I have seen people guessing will be called "Aftermath".

[PirateKing]

I have seen people guessing will be called "Aftermath".

Going to build a Omniscience deck and call it "Math & Science"

[Lord Seth]

If there is somebody paying attention at wotc they should be humiliated that Spinter Twin combo was able to pass by the playtesting group and then within only a few years the exact same interaction made it past them again. There was no excuse the first time for not recognizing Kiki Jiki+Pestermite's reincarnation and after that led to a banning it's total incompetence to let the same combo happen again with Saheeli.
Splinter Twin+Deceiver Exarch never led to a banning in Standard (it was never even the top deck while it was legal!). Sure, Stoneforge Mystic and Jace got banned, but they would've gotten banned whether or not Deceiver Exarch had been printed in New Phyrexia.

Maybe you're referring to Modern, but (1) the Splinter Twin banning was unwarranted and was transparently just to shake things up for the Pro Tour, and (2) even if "due diligence" had been done and Deceiver Exarch had been put in Innistrad block, it still would've been legal in Modern so it doesn't make sense to blame Standard playtesters for missing a combo in a larger format.


I'm not against combo but the wotc employees either are not playtesting cards or the people that are playtesting cards are not good enough magic players, period. It's not about the combo being overpowered but just the fact that they didn't even notice it would happen.

That was a rant but yeah, I think they're incompetent.My problem is not them missing the combo (either one). It's a random interaction between two cards, one of them a card that without the combo wouldn't have seen any play outside of Limited, and probably not that much play even in that format. It's still embarrassing for them that they didn't see it, but I can understand it.

The problem isn't what they did accidentally, it's what they did purposefully. Look back at ExarchTwin in Standard. It was never the top deck (before or after Stoneforge Mystic and Jace got banned); it was a decent deck, but that was all, and I should note several months of its legality was when Standard had some of the best card filtering it's ever had, with Preordain and Ponder both simultaneously legal.

Why, despite having better card filtering than is allowed in Modern, did the combo never dominate? Because the answers were decent. Dispatch, Vapor Snag, and Dismember are all 1-mana answers to the combo, the last of which is playable in any deck. Now someone might point out that Shock will answer the Felidar Guardian combo, but a key comparison is that the first three cards were much better in general. There was even Combust around; sure, it's a sideboard card, but it punished that combo.

It's not even just the removal answers. There are also "general" answer cards like Torpor Orb and Phyrexian Revoker legal, which shut off the combo quite handily. Granted, Torpor Orb is much more of a sideboard card, but having that card around inherently provides a check against any decks relying heavily on enter-the-battlefield triggers. These sort of 'safety valves' (Rest In Peace and Stony Silence are similar examples, even if they don't actually hit the combo) help prevent problems like that. Seriously, Standard would probably be a much better place right now if Pithing Needle was legal.

Wizards of the Coast deliberately and on purpose moved away from these kinds of cards, and Standard is suffering majorly because of it; it's not even primarily the fault of CopyCat combo (if anything, that combo may be preventing Mardu Vehicles from dominating more than it already is), as there were issues even before it was printed as shown by the bannings, it's just such an obvious case of how if they hadn't nerfed answers so much, then Felidar Guardian would've been no better than the Splinter Twin combo was in Standard, maybe even not that good.

The problem isn't that they missed the combo by accident, but the deliberate choices they made that have made it into such a big deck.

[LegacyIsAnEternalFormat]

Splinter Twin+Deceiver Exarch never led to a banning in Standard (it was never even the top deck while it was legal!). Sure, Stoneforge Mystic and Jace got banned, but they would've gotten banned whether or not Deceiver Exarch had been printed in New Phyrexia.

Maybe you're referring to Modern, but (1) the Splinter Twin banning was unwarranted and was transparently just to shake things up for the Pro Tour, and (2) even if "due diligence" had been done and Deceiver Exarch had been put in Innistrad block, it still would've been legal in Modern so it doesn't make sense to blame Standard playtesters for missing a combo in a larger format.

My problem is not them missing the combo (either one). It's a random interaction between two cards, one of them a card that without the combo wouldn't have seen any play outside of Limited, and probably not that much play even in that format. It's still embarrassing for them that they didn't see it, but I can understand it.

The problem isn't what they did accidentally, it's what they did purposefully. Look back at ExarchTwin in Standard. It was never the top deck (before or after Stoneforge Mystic and Jace got banned); it was a decent deck, but that was all, and I should note several months of its legality was when Standard had some of the best card filtering it's ever had, with Preordain and Ponder both simultaneously legal.

Why, despite having better card filtering than is allowed in Modern, did the combo never dominate? Because the answers were decent. Dispatch, Vapor Snag, and Dismember are all 1-mana answers to the combo, the last of which is playable in any deck. Now someone might point out that Shock will answer the Felidar Guardian combo, but a key comparison is that the first three cards were much better in general. There was even Combust around; sure, it's a sideboard card, but it punished that combo.

It's not even just the removal answers. There are also "general" answer cards like Torpor Orb and Phyrexian Revoker legal, which shut off the combo quite handily. Granted, Torpor Orb is much more of a sideboard card, but having that card around inherently provides a check against any decks relying heavily on enter-the-battlefield triggers. These sort of 'safety valves' (Rest In Peace and Stony Silence are similar examples, even if they don't actually hit the combo) help prevent problems like that. Seriously, Standard would probably be a much better place right now if Pithing Needle was legal.

Wizards of the Coast deliberately and on purpose moved away from these kinds of cards, and Standard is suffering majorly because of it; it's not even primarily the fault of CopyCat combo (if anything, that combo may be preventing Mardu Vehicles from dominating more than it already is), as there were issues even before it was printed as shown by the bannings, it's just such an obvious case of how if they hadn't nerfed answers so much, then Felidar Guardian would've been no better than the Splinter Twin combo was in Standard, maybe even not that good.

The problem isn't that they missed the combo by accident, but the deliberate choices they made that have made it into such a big deck.

Ya they should definitely include classic high quality answers like Wrath of God, Lightning Bolt, PtE/StP, Counterspell and Doom Blade in every standard format, it would do wonders in improving the format...

[Ace/Homebrew]

Ya they should definitely include classic high quality answers like Wrath of God, Lightning Bolt, PtE/StP, Counterspell and Doom Blade in every standard format, it would do wonders in improving the format...

I don't see any of those cards listed in Seth's post. Your comment is critical of something he never even suggested...

https://s3media.247sports.com/Uploads/Assets/709/696/4696709.jpg

[LegacyIsAnEternalFormat]

I don't see any of those cards listed in Seth's post. Your comment is critical of something he never even suggested...

https://s3media.247sports.com/Uploads/Assets/709/696/4696709.jpg

I wasnt being sarcastic.

[UnderwaterGuy]

Splinter Twin+Deceiver Exarch never led to a banning in Standard (it was never even the top deck while it was legal!). Sure, Stoneforge Mystic and Jace got banned, but they would've gotten banned whether or not Deceiver Exarch had been printed in New Phyrexia.

Maybe you're referring to Modern, but (1) the Splinter Twin banning was unwarranted and was transparently just to shake things up for the Pro Tour, and (2) even if "due diligence" had been done and Deceiver Exarch had been put in Innistrad block, it still would've been legal in Modern so it doesn't make sense to blame Standard playtesters for missing a combo in a larger format.

My problem is not them missing the combo (either one). It's a random interaction between two cards, one of them a card that without the combo wouldn't have seen any play outside of Limited, and probably not that much play even in that format. It's still embarrassing for them that they didn't see it, but I can understand it.

The problem isn't what they did accidentally, it's what they did purposefully. Look back at ExarchTwin in Standard. It was never the top deck (before or after Stoneforge Mystic and Jace got banned); it was a decent deck, but that was all, and I should note several months of its legality was when Standard had some of the best card filtering it's ever had, with Preordain and Ponder both simultaneously legal.

Why, despite having better card filtering than is allowed in Modern, did the combo never dominate? Because the answers were decent. Dispatch, Vapor Snag, and Dismember are all 1-mana answers to the combo, the last of which is playable in any deck. Now someone might point out that Shock will answer the Felidar Guardian combo, but a key comparison is that the first three cards were much better in general. There was even Combust around; sure, it's a sideboard card, but it punished that combo.

It's not even just the removal answers. There are also "general" answer cards like Torpor Orb and Phyrexian Revoker legal, which shut off the combo quite handily. Granted, Torpor Orb is much more of a sideboard card, but having that card around inherently provides a check against any decks relying heavily on enter-the-battlefield triggers. These sort of 'safety valves' (Rest In Peace and Stony Silence are similar examples, even if they don't actually hit the combo) help prevent problems like that. Seriously, Standard would probably be a much better place right now if Pithing Needle was legal.

Wizards of the Coast deliberately and on purpose moved away from these kinds of cards, and Standard is suffering majorly because of it; it's not even primarily the fault of CopyCat combo (if anything, that combo may be preventing Mardu Vehicles from dominating more than it already is), as there were issues even before it was printed as shown by the bannings, it's just such an obvious case of how if they hadn't nerfed answers so much, then Felidar Guardian would've been no better than the Splinter Twin combo was in Standard, maybe even not that good.

The problem isn't that they missed the combo by accident, but the deliberate choices they made that have made it into such a big deck.
I did not say that the combo is the problem and I know it wasn't banned in Standard. The combos we're talking about are at a reasonable power level. The point is that wotc didn't even recognize the combos existed during testing. That is the only point and it clearly shows that they aren't playing the game or evaluating cards effectvely. I think all of wotc's development of cards is seriously questionable when it is based on the feedback from people that don't play magic as well as the general public.

We're totally in agreement about answers vs threats though. Apparently answers make casual players feel bad and wotc thinks we're better off with them being weak or nonexistent. Wotc did it right for years by printing graveyard hate near graveyard sets and powerful artifact destruction near artifact blocks. Last year for some reason they return to an artifact block and didn't even print Shatter in it.

[Ace/Homebrew]

I wasnt being sarcastic.
Fair enough! :smile:
My sarcasmeter needs to be recalibrated.

https://media1.giphy.com/media/vqFTMuP3I2S4w/200_s.gif
sometimes you lose, sometimes it rains.

[UnderwaterGuy]

I thought it was sarcasm too but I actually agree since it was sincere. Standard doesn't need all the best removal from history but it deserves much better than Shock and 3+cmc kill spells.

For Amonkhet, I'm really curious what the masterpieces will end up being. I'm guessing they stick with card types as a theme and if Amonkhet has enchantment creatures like Theros did then it could be the enchantment masterpiece block.

Instants/Sorceries could happen too, creatures might be hardest to do.

[H]

For Amonkhet, I'm really curious what the masterpieces will end up being. I'm guessing they stick with card types as a theme and if Amonkhet has enchantment creatures like Theros did then it could be the enchantment masterpiece block.

Instants/Sorceries could happen too, creatures might be hardest to do.

My guess is actually Planeswalkers now, for these Masterpieces.

[UnderwaterGuy]

That would be very spicy!

Masterpiece JTMS :eek:

[Darkenslight]

I thought it was sarcasm too but I actually agree since it was sincere. Standard doesn't need all the best removal from history but it deserves much better than Shock and 3+cmc kill spells.

For Amonkhet, I'm really curious what the masterpieces will end up being. I'm guessing they stick with card types as a theme and if Amonkhet has enchantment creatures like Theros did then it could be the enchantment masterpiece block.

Instants/Sorceries could happen too, creatures might be hardest to do.

Nope. We have enough truly iconic Masterpiece variant Instants and/or sorceries. Can you imagine a Masterpiece Wrath of God or Damnation, for example?

And as for Creatures, that's relatively easy, too. Invitational cards (excepting Jens), Goyf, Morphling, SFM, YP, Vorinclex, Myojins, Progenitus...

[Claymore]

Can't help but imagine masterpiece creatures would just be called Shinies like pokemon.

[UnderwaterGuy]

Nope. We have enough truly iconic Masterpiece variant Instants and/or sorceries. Can you imagine a Masterpiece Wrath of God or Damnation, for example?

And as for Creatures, that's relatively easy, too. Invitational cards (excepting Jens), Goyf, Morphling, SFM, YP, Vorinclex, Myojins, Progenitus...

Yeah there are certainly plenty of available iconic cards to reprint with new borders. The masterpieces so far have been tied into the blocks though (Zendikar is a land block, Kaladesh is an artifact block) and I think they even exclude cards that fit the card type theme but wouldn't fit the block (so there were no Phyrexian or explicitly Dominarian artifacts like Predator Flagship or Karn in Kaladesh). With artifacts and lands it was easy to follow those rules but there's never really been an "instants and sorceries" set so I don't know how they'll handle them with masterpieces.

[Darkenslight]

Yeah there are certainly plenty of available iconic cards to reprint with new borders. The masterpieces so far have been tied into the blocks though (Zendikar is a land block, Kaladesh is an artifact block) and I think they even exclude cards that fit the card type theme but wouldn't fit the block (so there were no Phyrexian or explicitly Dominarian artifacts like Predator Flagship or Karn in Kaladesh). With artifacts and lands it was easy to follow those rules but there's never really been an "instants and sorceries" set so I don't know how they'll handle them with masterpieces.

Iconic Sorceries in Amonkhet, Instants in Hour of Devastation?

[Lemnear]

Iconic Sorceries in Amonkhet, Instants in Hour of Devastation?

Still didn't manage to get Masterpiece Petals. Save me from having to get Masterpiece Cantrips or some shit like that

[Claymore]

Masterpiece Brainstorm, I can feel it. Or if they go enchantments (since it is a God set coming up), they'll salt the wound with Masterpiece Counterbalance.

[Barook]

Gods don't necessarily have to be enchantments this time. They might be Shard-multicolored this time.

As for Masterpiece Brainstorm, it would be a major chase card and set seller once they decide to jam it into a set - unless the art looks like crap.

[H]

http://i.imgur.com/kv9H103.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/SshQ9eo.jpg

Interesting, even if not particularly powerful cards.

I am guessing "exert" means to discard a card?

[Darkenslight]

http://i.imgur.com/kv9H103.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/SshQ9eo.jpg

Interesting, even if not particularly powerful cards.

I am guessing "exert" means to discard a card?

It may also be "put a -1/-1 counter on this creature."

The Intro pack 'walkers have been spoiled, too. They're about as Intro as you can expect from the Gidfather and Super Mega Psycho.

[H]

It may also be "put a -1/-1 counter on this creature."

The Intro pack 'walkers have been spoiled, too. They're about as Intro as you can expect from the Gidfather and Super Mega Psycho.

Yeah, that does make more sense with a few more minutes thinking.

Fingers, toes, and legs crossed hoping they make a card that when you Cycle it destroys an Artifact. I've been hoping for such a thing for years to be able to use in Vintage. I think not printing a Naturalize with Delve was a huge miss, so hopefully they make up for it here. Now is nearly a perfect time, being a Cycling set after an Artifact themed set.

[rufus]

...
I am guessing "exert" means to discard a card?

Could just be a 1-shot ability like monstrous or renown. Put a counter on it, and it becomes exerted. More probably something more like the -1/-1 counters - effectively copying the LotR CCG that was popular a few years back.

[H]

Could just be a 1-shot ability like monstrous or renown. Put a counter on it, and it becomes exerted. More probably something more like the -1/-1 counters - effectively copying the LotR CCG that was popular a few years back.

Yeah, possibly when it becomes tapped, or maybe when it deal damage to a player. It might be worked like Renown:

"When this creature deals combat damage to a player, if it isn't renowned, put a +1/+1 counter on it and it becomes renowned."

So, exert might be:

"When this creature deals combat damage to a player, if it isn't exerted, put a -1/-1 counter on it and it becomes exerted."

In this way, it makes sense to want to get counters on your opponent's creatures, so they can't exert them.

[kirkusjones]

I highly doubt it'll happen, but an Astral Slide reprint would be amazing. I might actually have to play standard if that happened.

[CptHaddock]

I highly doubt it'll happen, but an Astral Slide reprint would be amazing. I might actually have to play standard if that happened.

Seems like it could be a thing since cycling seems to be a theme in this set.

[morgan_coke]

Oh HELLS YEAH. CYCLING IS BACK BABY!!!

-leaves to go resurrect the Astral Slide thread.

[Ace/Homebrew]

Source (http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/news/so-much-amonkhet-news-2017-03-27)

Punch card:
http://media.wizards.com/2017/dw466ytu5_akh/BsVeTQyePY.png

Embalm is an activated ability you can activate if the creature card with embalm is in your graveyard. Notably you're not casting the card from the graveyard, so things that counter spells won't work against the embalm ability. The original creature spell can be countered, of course, but that just puts the card in the graveyard. I think you see where this is headed.

You make the decision whether to exert a creature as you declare it as an attacker. If you choose to have it exert, an ability will trigger and grant you some bonus. As a trade-off, the creature won't untap during your next turn. It's tired. Needs a nap. Attack more later.


No mention of 'Consequences/Aftermath'...

[morgan_coke]

Source (http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/news/so-much-amonkhet-news-2017-03-27)

Punch card:
http://media.wizards.com/2017/dw466ytu5_akh/BsVeTQyePY.png

Embalm is an activated ability you can activate if the creature card with embalm is in your graveyard. Notably you're not casting the card from the graveyard, so things that counter spells won't work against the embalm ability. The original creature spell can be countered, of course, but that just puts the card in the graveyard. I think you see where this is headed.

You make the decision whether to exert a creature as you declare it as an attacker. If you choose to have it exert, an ability will trigger and grant you some bonus. As a trade-off, the creature won't untap during your next turn. It's tired. Needs a nap. Attack more later.


No mention of 'Consequences/Aftermath'...

There's speculation that that's going to be an Hour of Devastation card. But we also haven't had the rules article yet, so who knows. It wouldn't need a counter though, so there's no reason to believe it is or isn't in yet.

[supremePINEAPPLE]

Embalm is sweet. I really hope there are some interesting cards with the mechanic.

[rufus]

...Punch card:...

How long before someone sneezes?

[Claymore]

Oracle's vault seems close to being legacy playable (yet another card for manipulating the top of the deck), but just not enough.

[H]

Could someone explain why you need a little thing that says "Embalmed" when there are tokens that show you exactly what it should be? Just in case you didn't get an actual token card? I guess that makes sense.

[Michael Keller]

I saw a Minotaur spoiled in this new set.

Is it Didgeridoo time?

[CptHaddock]

I saw a Minotaur spoiled in this new set.

Is it Didgeridoo time?

Can we do a mtgthesource buyout of this card? I feel like the last time it spiked people didn't learn their lesson.

[maharis]

Oracle's vault seems close to being legacy playable (yet another card for manipulating the top of the deck), but just not enough.

I played against Temporal Aperture in MUDPost as recently as a week ago... this dodges decay and can't imagine it's that different from Aperture once you have a punch of Posts out anyway

The existence of this punchcard should be an indicator to never take Wizards' bleating about "complexity creep" seriously.

[Michael Keller]

Can we do a mtgthesource buyout of this card? I feel like the last time it spiked people didn't learn their lesson.

God I hope though they print three or four massive Minotaurs that are playable.

[supremePINEAPPLE]

Could someone explain why you need a little thing that says "Embalmed" when there are tokens that show you exactly what it should be? Just in case you didn't get an actual token card? I guess that makes sense.I'm guessing it's mostly to make it easier for limited to figure out when something has been embalmed. I would bet that the rules text exiles the card but people in limited will probably still just play with the card itself so the embalm punch-out makes it obvious that it's a token and not an actual card for bounce effects and when it dies the second time. Not elegant at all but I see why it's necessary.

[rufus]

Oracle's vault seems close to being legacy playable (yet another card for manipulating the top of the deck), but just not enough.

It's an intriguing design, but it's not even in the neighborhood of legacy playable. 10 mana over 3 turns to start cheating spells? I'll be surprised if it sees play in standard.

[morgan_coke]

I played against Temporal Aperture in MUDPost as recently as a week ago... this dodges decay and can't imagine it's that different from Aperture once you have a punch of Posts out anyway

The existence of this punchcard should be an indicator to never take Wizards' bleating about "complexity creep" seriously.

Isn't "Complexity Creep" pretty much just about all they've got at this point? I mean, without complexity they're just a bad version of Hearthstone or Gwent or any of the other new digital TCGs that are going gangbusters.

[Barook]

There's speculation that that's going to be an Hour of Devastation card. But we also haven't had the rules article yet, so who knows. It wouldn't need a counter though, so there's no reason to believe it is or isn't in yet.
It has the Amonkhet set symbol.


I played against Temporal Aperture in MUDPost as recently as a week ago... this dodges decay and can't imagine it's that different from Aperture once you have a punch of Posts out anyway

The existence of this punchcard should be an indicator to never take Wizards' bleating about "complexity creep" seriously.
Brick counters? Seriously? Not to mention the good ol' +1/+1 -1/-1 interactions in Standard alongside Energy counters. This is going to be an utter clusterfuck.



Source (http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/news/so-much-amonkhet-news-2017-03-27)

Punch card:
http://media.wizards.com/2017/dw466ytu5_akh/BsVeTQyePY.png

Embalm is an activated ability you can activate if the creature card with embalm is in your graveyard. Notably you're not casting the card from the graveyard, so things that counter spells won't work against the embalm ability. The original creature spell can be countered, of course, but that just puts the card in the graveyard. I think you see where this is headed.

You make the decision whether to exert a creature as you declare it as an attacker. If you choose to have it exert, an ability will trigger and grant you some bonus. As a trade-off, the creature won't untap during your next turn. It's tired. Needs a nap. Attack more later.


No mention of 'Consequences/Aftermath'...
So is Embalm like a permanent, non-hasty Unearth? :confused:

Edit: Nevermind, it shits out its own unique token like:
http://media.wizards.com/2017/images/daily/en_jG6CH9Lx83.pnghttp://media.wizards.com/2017/dw466ytu5_akh/en_Npe8YOnalQ.png

[Lemnear]

All about creatures, Tokens and Counters. I hate the set already before its spoilered

[jandax]

Oh c'mon it'll be good for at least two or three drafts


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Claymore]

It's an intriguing design, but it's not even in the neighborhood of legacy playable. 10 mana over 3 turns to start cheating spells? I'll be surprised if it sees play in standard.

Yeah, I think it's close, but not enough. If it was more like Vial then you could see Miracles manipulating the top 3 to cast free spells or mana ramp (EOT, toss Mentor or Jace onto the field from my library/use Top to Terminus then play Top, look at top 3). Too much mana sinking to turn it on and only acts like Chandra's 0 ability when bricked up.

We'll probably get there eventually, seeing that modern combo card to +1 counter/play a spell and now this.

[MaximumC]

Here are my deductions from seeing just these cards and mechanics:

1. Yixlid Jailer's time has come. She stops Embalm where the other major yard hosers, Containment Priest and Grafdigger's Cage, do nothing. The Jailer would even be a fine reprint for this set or the next -- remember, she was future shifted -- as a way to stop Embalm from getting out of hand.

2. Set is going to have a viable re-animator theme. I mean, sure, "Duh, it's Egyptian" but now we know for sure. Cycling makes it easy to set up reanimation. Embalm lets them print a form of reanimate effect that is safer because you can't recur the creature endlessly. I am very confident we will see cards that give creatures in your graveyard Embalm, though I doubt you can top the standard set by Animate Dead, Reanimate, and the like. Modern Reanimator might get a shot in the arm, though -- remember, they nerfed it not too long ago. Perhaps they did so knowing what was coming...?

3. Set won't be as bad as Theros. Gods returning signals devotion, which was poop for eternal formats because it's hard to cheat a devotion cost the way you can other costs. And, lots of the mechanics are creature based. But, Cycling is not Tribute, Embalm is not Heroic, and Exert is not Inspired. In particular, Exert strikes me as a FIXED Inspired, because it is far easier to get the effect.

[MaximumC]

Yeah, I think it's close, but not enough. If it was more like Vial then you could see Miracles manipulating the top 3 to cast free spells or mana ramp (EOT, toss Mentor or Jace onto the field from my library/use Top to Terminus then play Top, look at top 3). Too much mana sinking to turn it on and only acts like Chandra's 0 ability when bricked up.

We'll probably get there eventually, seeing that modern combo card to +1 counter/play a spell and now this.

Brain in Jar is better than Sphinx in a Doghouse.

[thefringthing]

Embalm could be cool if they put it on some creatures with ETB abilities.

[Dice_Box]

Embalm could be cool if they put it on some creatures with ETB abilities.

I hope there is a way to give it to a creature in your graveyard. I want to use this on a Pack Rat.

[MaximumC]

I hope there is a way to give it to a creature in your graveyard. I want to use this on a Pack Rat.

I assume there will be, given the theme, but I am skeptical of how playable it will be. Probably it'll be something like, "W: Target dead creature gets Emblam X where X is its converted mana cost" or something. They can't print Embalm enablers that rival Legacy reanimator spells or else they'll totally invalidate Priest and Cage.

[Dice_Box]

Meh. Doesn't have to be good, just has to be fun. If I was still playing Legacy with the intention of winning, I would be complaining far more than I do. The way I still enjoy Legacy now is I lose to the top decks intentionally and I have fun with everyone else.

[supremePINEAPPLE]

You mean Back From The Brink (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?name=Back%20From%20the%20Brink&type=card&.jpg) isn't good enough for you already!?

[Dice_Box]

You mean Back From The Brink (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?name=Back%20From%20the%20Brink&type=card&.jpg) isn't good enough for you already!?

Um... Well i guess this pile is going to need SnT.

[rufus]

You mean Back From The Brink (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?name=Back%20From%20the%20Brink&type=card&.jpg) isn't good enough for you already!?

This is legacy, for ETB abuse you can use Dreams of the Dead instead.

[Claymore]

Per an MTG article, some of the new masterpieces will be spoiled tonight starting 6pm by various pro streamers. They'll be called "Invocations" this time around. My guess is Instants and/or Sorceries.

Masterpiece Force of Will/Brainstorm incoming?

[Plm]

Well invocation is french for summoning, so my guess is creature this time. (but do not underestimate wizards' blunder capacity )

[supremePINEAPPLE]

This is legacy, for ETB abuse you can use Dreams of the Dead instead.The card I linked is exactly the new embalm mechanic minus the zombie part. Anyone playing either card seriously should probably just be evaluated by a medical professional.

[Richard Cheese]

The card I linked is exactly the new embalm mechanic minus the zombie part. Anyone playing either card seriously should probably just be evaluated by a medical professional.

To be fair, there are a few small differences. Most important is that the embalm cost doesn't necessarily have to equal the creature's original casting cost. So there could be a Sedris, the Traitor King type of effect there. Also the tokens are apparently all zombies but also always white.

They do both have shitty sorcery-speed restriction though!

[Ephemeron]

To be fair, there are a few small differences. Most important is that the embalm cost doesn't necessarily have to equal the creature's original casting cost. So there could be a Sedris, the Traitor King type of effect there. Also the tokens are apparently all zombies but also always white.

They do both have shitty sorcery-speed restriction though!

Also worth noting is that since embalm is an activated ability that places a token creature onto the battlefield, it doesn't get stopped by popular graveyard hosers like Grafdigger's Cage and Containment Priest.

[supremePINEAPPLE]

Also worth noting is that since embalm is an activated ability that places a token creature onto the battlefield, it doesn't get stopped by popular graveyard hosers like Grafdigger's Cage and Containment Priest.Definitely one of my favorite things about the ability. I hope them made at least something constructed playable that you could self-mill in modern grixis or dredge decks. Something sweet for Legacy graveyard decks would be cool but I'm not holding my breath.

[Darkenslight]

https://i.redd.it/jgrg8v2cy7oy.png

Welp.

EDIT: this is the speculated now confirmed frame for the Amonkhet Masterpiece series, known as Invocations.

EDIT 2:

https://www.toplevelpodcast.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/aven-mindcensor.png

Bwuh?

[supremePINEAPPLE]

If that's real then the new artifact border has finally been officially dethroned as the worst border ever.

[Darkenslight]

If that's real then the new artifact border has finally been officially dethroned as the worst border ever.

It's not even that, it's that there seems to be no cohesive reason for these to be Masterpieces, so far.

EDIT: and Pact of Negation is one, too.

https://i.imgur.com/fhoXRJO.png

There seems to be a pattern of powerful Control spells for these Masterpieces.

EDIT 2:

https://i.imgur.com/uy4hakX.png

Okay, this one might be stunning in the foiling process.

[Claymore]

oh

oh dear

[Noctalor]

http://i.imgur.com/Dmk3VNG.png

[Lord Seth]

They look really ugly to me, but then again I've always been about getting the cheapest option whenever possible so these aren't really marketed towards me to begin with.

[Barook]

I'm happy that I'm not the only one who thinks that they look like total ass.

The names are hard to read, the border looks like shit and they lack a coherent theme.

Also, is it just me, or does the art look smaller on them compared to normal cards?

[Dice_Box]

They are really hard to read. The non text box words. The cards don't flow well to the eye.

[H]

I'm happy that I'm not the only one who thinks that they look like total ass.

The names are hard to read, the border looks like shit and they lack a coherent theme.

Also, is it just me, or does the art look smaller on them compared to normal cards?

Some of the art does look rather nice, but holy hell the boarder is so busy everything gets lost in it.

I think the art is the same size though, just the border makes it look smaller.

[kirkusjones]

They look like poorly counterfeited Yu-gi-oh cards...gross. Even Egyptian Mew was easier to read...

[UnderwaterGuy]

Jesus Christ what a shitshow. Masterpieces were handled so well the first few times...

Only thr third time trying this and they already devolved into "random good stuff" with a border that doesn't look like a magic card.


They look like poorly counterfeited Yu-gi-oh cards...gross. Even Egyptian Mew was easier to read...

That's exactly what they remind me of too! But worse.

[Barook]

https://i.imgur.com/uy4hakX.png

Okay, this one might be stunning in the foiling process.
Shame this isn't full art. This one looks great:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C8CdVu-VUAAZRDC.jpg:large

[Noctalor]

New spoiler
http://cdn.bulbagarden.net/upload/thumb/b/b3/AncientMewThePowerofOnepromo.jpg/200px-AncientMewThePowerofOnepromo.jpg

[Ephemeron]

I liked expeditions and could take or leave the inventions. At least those still looked like magic cards. This is some straight up yu-ghi-oh looking garbage. The fact that you can't actually, you know, read the name of the card is just the cherry on top of the shit sundae.

[rufus]

I guess the graphic design part of WotC R&D is keeping pace with the part that's responsible for the standard metagame.

...
Edit:
Aven mincensor is even worse.

[Barook]

https://twitter.com/TrickMTG/status/846850855626145792

A look on how they look in real life.


I guess the graphic design part of WotC R&D is keeping pace with the part that's responsible for the standard metagame.
What if the graphic design department was actually playtesting Standard in R&D's place? That would explain alot on all fronts. :really:

[Lord_Mcdonalds]

They look so...cheap.

It's like someone made some prototype cards, and forgot to tell them they weren't finished.

[Noctalor]

https://i.gyazo.com/abebb25a898c6d0ef04e258d4b6fe4e0.jpg

LOL just noticed how the p/t is written on those pieces of shit, what a good way to just cheat you opponent if he doesn't know the card very well and he is not able to understand it!

Nice move!

[Ephemeron]

Invocations: they may be ugly but at least they're hard to read!

[UnderwaterGuy]

Even if they were going to use the crazy font, why include random characters before the name and card types? It's like they're made to be hard to read, what horrible design.

[Sloshthedark]

hahaha, this can't be true, I'm back in the game for 7,5 y and still haven't dealt with the 2003 change and never will, every change just triggers memories reading this:

http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/making-magic/frames-reference-2003-01-27

nice arguments... and the improvement continues... I won't ever touch any of these new cards, they have no relevance to me, but well it's just unreal how nonconceptual and random this is... surprising when they could change manasymbol mid block... inb4 not able to tell whether Opp's deck is "pimp" as hell or slashed with some fne boardgames card selection

[Claymore]

>The theme is obviously cards that tilt your opponent, and the border makes it so much better.


Masterpiece Brainstorm, I can feel it. Or if they go enchantments (since it is a God set coming up), they'll salt the wound with Masterpiece Counterbalance.

Almost called it.

Since these are gold bordered are they constructed legal???

[maharis]

They are jarringly different but I kind of like that. They are far more interesting looking than the expeditions which were all just gray messes. I think inventions were better executed though.

None of these products particularly interest me but I like that they're swinging for the fences a bit here.

Next step is finding a way to show off the often excellent art on these instead of going so all-in with the border. Expeditions could've been that but then they made them all grayscale... whatever.

[Ace/Homebrew]

Since these are gold bordered are they constructed legal???

I was curious about that too! Will they have to rewrite or modify the rules on card borders thanks to these abominations?

[jimmythegreek]

Depressing. I play magic for many reasons and one was the aesthetics of the cards. These new lottery cards are absolute abominations and completely inexcusable. Wow, you guys fucked up.

[phonics]

Between this and that new split card, it is like they are having a competition to make the most aesthetically unpleasing design possible. I have said nothing WOTC does surprises me anymore, but I was proven wrong, Bravo.

[Barook]

I was curious about that too! Will they have to rewrite or modify the rules on card borders thanks to these abominations?
Fucking awesome.

I asked this on Twitter. Let's see how long it takes until it blows up. :cool:

[LegacyIsAnEternalFormat]

Honestly I dont understand why people are complaining, the cards look pretty cool and its a nice to have a change once in a while...

[Ace/Homebrew]

I asked this on Twitter. Let's see how long it takes until it blows up. :cool:

Only thing I found was in Magic Tournament Rules 3.3:

Authorized Game Cards are cards that, unaltered, meet the following conditions:
The card has black or white borders.

Source (https://blogs.magicjudges.org/rules/mtr3-3/)

Not that these words are chiseled into stone... These rules were obviously modified to make exceptions for DFC and Meld cards.

[Barook]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C8CvSWXXgAEpRNV.jpg:large

There's the FoW - and it looks like ass. Especially after we got the gorgeous EMA FoW.

Edit: Invocations so far:

http://mythicspoiler.com/newspoilers.html

[Dice_Box]

As a predominantly Red Mage it always fills me with joy to ridicule Blue Mages. Play that Force against me and you will know no end to my sarcasm and mockery.

[supremePINEAPPLE]

Shame that mind twist art won't be available elsewhere, I like it a lot.

[Barook]

https://twitter.com/maro254/status/846879106574663680

Maro is asking for feedback on the invocations. You know the drill.

[Di]

A+ art. F- design. As a designer, these are terrible and simply don't look finished, or even look like Magic cards. Illegible fonts. Hyper characterization of tacky hieroglyph theming. Comically large border that completely diminishes the artwork (which is too small). I almost want to make a Twitter to voice my opinion. It looks like we'll be casting a fucking Exodia.

On the plus side, these are so ugly that I actually think the forces will be cheaper than the originals. Good for those looking to get them on the cheap.

[Barook]

It looks like we'll be casting a fucking Exodia.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C8C74rsVYAQBXlz.jpg:large

Even Google thinks they're Yugioh cards.

[Dice_Box]

Amusing, but not suprising. Call dibs on Blue Eyes, it's been years since I summoned that thing.

[Barook]

"Can't read shit: The Gathering" Edition - try to figure out the name without looking at the text box or mana cost:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C8DHtucVsAEp_xA.jpg:large

[GenghisTom]

1). First reaction: "Please don't be real..."
2). Second reaction: "Why do I have to squint to read these?"

Maybe they're supposed to look like shit. Like ancient dusty tablets you have to try hard to read in order to summon an old powerful spell. Maybe it's all part of the flavor.
Either way, these wont be making their way into any of my sleeves.

[phonics]

The typeface mimicking hieroglyphs is like using stereotypical Chinese style font used on takeout boxes and mixing it with actual Chinese characters for portal 3 kingdoms promos or something, and all the drop shadows and psuedo 3d in the border looks straight out of an old pc game from the 90s. The art is by far the best (or only) good part of the card and the borders make it smaller than normal cards. I thought they realized that people like full art cards by how desirable the other full part promos were, but this design choice makes no sense. They should have just done old frame + gold border + ancient egyptian style art instead of this abomination.

[Dice_Box]

This is borderline criminal. The art on Daze is wonderful, think of that art in a pre 8th border. I feel like they missed the mark on design, but the artists gave their souls to these projects. Wrath, Daze, Twist... The art is top shelf. It's sad that's all that is.

[alderon666]

Ugly, unreadable, art is too small, how does this happen?

Who had the bright idea of putting a bunch of meaningless symbols where there should be blank space?

oPrithSorceryGjeuy

Cutting edge stuff guys!

And the card text is in ALL CAPS! Why?

[Megadeus]

"Can't read shit: The Gathering" Edition - try to figure out the name without looking at the text box or mana cost:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C8DHtucVsAEp_xA.jpg:large

Wait there's a new card type? When can I cast an Irstart?

[thefringthing]

The art on Daze is wonderful, think of that art in a pre 8th border.http://i.imgur.com/uRZPNgn.png

Meh.

[Megadeus]

Need Mind Twist alter pls

[morgan_coke]

Between Kaladesh Inventions, MM3, and Ahmonket Invocations, is there a single card in Miracles outside of the Duals that isn't in one of those three?

[Dice_Box]

http://i.imgur.com/uRZPNgn.png

Meh.
It's nice, but I think it does need some other colours in it. Uniform Blue doesn't offer a lot of contrast. Thanks for the knock up though. It's something I like.

[thefringthing]

Need Mind Twist alter plshttp://i.imgur.com/xJXRaeV.png

Okay.


Thanks for the knock up though."Mock up". "Knock up" is... something else.

[TsumiBand]

These look like powdered fuck

[ESG]

People have been wondering for years about the thing that could kill Magic.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C8CvSWXXgAEpRNV.jpg:large

If all the cards looked awful like this, I'm pretty sure it would kill the game.

[thefringthing]

I like how the new Mind Twist art is a man being attacked by his own flatulence.

[Ronald Deuce]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C8C74rsVYAQBXlz.jpg:large

Even Google thinks they're Yugioh cards.

Oh, fuck me, I lost it at this. I may despise colorless tentacles, but you, sir, always will be welcome under my roof.

[Ronald Deuce]

I like how the new Mind Twist art is a man being attacked by his own flatulence.

I'm dying out here

[Lemnear]

Barook won this thread, hands down. I am still trying to reduce my rant so it fits on twitter, because the design failures in this set are really beyond the worst i could imagine. Congratz WotC. What else must happen so Hasbro intervenes and just fires half of WotC for obviously sucking at their job? Everyone who gave green lights to this Invocations and split cards should be forced to do a GoT-esque Walk of Shame through gamestores.

[Echelon]

Barook won this thread, hands down. I am still trying to reduce my rant so it fits on twitter, because the design failures in this set are really beyond the worst i could imagine. Congratz WotC. What else must happen so Hasbro intervenes and just fires half of WotC for obviously sucking at their job? Everyone who gave green lights to this Invocations and split cards should be forced to do a GoT-esque Walk of Shame through gamestores.

Here you go:

Dudes, WTF?

You're welcome. I just came across the Amonkhet spoilers. What the hell were they thinking with the look of those Invocations? Time to mix up MtG & Yu-Gi-Oh? I activate my Sneak Attack and drop Blue-Eyes White Dragon, GG. It's fine that they try and reprint some Legacy staples at some silly ass rarity, but can they at least look like regular MtG cards?

[hymnyou]

These cards make me want to die.

[Darkenslight]

Barook won this thread, hands down. I am still trying to reduce my rant so it fits on twitter, because the design failures in this set are really beyond the worst i could imagine. Congratz WotC. What else must happen so Hasbro intervenes and just fires half of WotC for obviously sucking at their job? Everyone who gave green lights to this Invocations and split cards should be forced to do a GoT-esque Walk of Shame through gamestores.

I would have gone with The Rains of Castamere, but hey. :D

Fantastic artworks ruined by such a huge fail.

So now I'll open 6 of the fucking things.

...Why couldn't I get any of the good Masterpieces?

[Echelon]

These cards make me want to die.

Why? Now you get to play MtG AND assemble Exodia (as long as you believe in the Heart of the Cards, obviously). What's not to love?

[bruizar]

I would have gone with The Rains of Castamere, but hey. :D

Fantastic artworks ruined by such a huge fail.

So now I'll open 6 of the fucking things.

...Why couldn't I get any of the good Masterpieces?

These fuckers' price will tank like nothing we've seen before. I'm gonna pick them up so that one day I can look back up on them as rare relics from a bygone age where wotc did everything they could to fuck up a good thing that started with expeditions.

[Echelon]

Yup. Turns out you can screw up printing money (I mean, those things are just a simple cash grab). Who would have thought?

[jandax]

Force of will masterpiece is butt ugly

[Megadeus]

I would have gone with The Rains of Castamere, but hey. :D

Fantastic artworks ruined by such a huge fail.

So now I'll open 6 of the fucking things.

...Why couldn't I get any of the good Masterpieces?

Because good masterpieces never existed

[Darkenslight]

Because good masterpieces never existed

I meant cards like Chalice, fetches and Crucible. I've pulled exactly one of the Masterpiece series.

[H]

http://i.imgur.com/xJXRaeV.png

Okay.

I'd buy that for a dollar.

[Beatusnox]

Not going to lie, the actual art and the textbox text I like. Everything else, is god awful. That said, I would totally use these to try to tilt the hell out of an opponent.

Sent from my ASUS_Z00TD using Tapatalk

[bruizar]

Rofl... FoW preorders at 500 euros on MCM. Anyone want to make a bet at how much % FoW will drop?

[Lemnear]

Rofl... FoW preorders at 500 euros on MCM. Anyone want to make a bet at how much % FoW will drop?

Like "trade two Invocations for an Alliance one, because otherwise my LGS laughts at me"?

[bruizar]

Had to eternalize these redunculous preorder prices with a screenshot. Press CTRL/Command - several times for full picture.

https://image.ibb.co/nQv38v/Screen_Shot_463.png

What can you do with $1k USD? Buying an Invocation FoW isn't on the list:
http://time.com/money/3144627/invest-1000-now-35-ways/

Just for reference, so we all know who is responsible for setting the market value for masterpieces so high, here are the MCM users selling preorders right now for the prices from the screenshot
cernyrytir Czech Republic
Eurekagames Spain
ARTE9 Spain
Hobby-Games Greece
Altrove Italy
Etrius81 Italy

But mostly Hobby-Games, Eurekagames and Cernyrytir

[Fjaulnir]

Rofl... FoW preorders at 500 euros on MCM. Anyone want to make a bet at how much % FoW will drop?

The first Vindicates are at 600€... so these sellers are just talking out of their arses :wink:

[Megadeus]

I meant cards like Chalice, fetches and Crucible. I've pulled exactly one of the Masterpiece series.

Yeah and they still look horrendous compared to OG

[Lemnear]

Spoiler seasons are the rare occasions the community of TheSource unites in their hate. Love it

[Seraphix]

It's hilarious that they clearly went out of their way to print lots of Legacy staples this time, as if they somehow expect Legacy players to want these. If I sit down for a match of Legacy and my opponent has these in their deck I don't think I'd be able to stop myself from laughing in their face.

The blatant, masturbatory caricature-ization of the "ancient Egypt" theme by these cards is crass and borderline offensive. Fuck you, WotC.

[CptHaddock]

New spoiler
http://cdn.bulbagarden.net/upload/thumb/b/b3/AncientMewThePowerofOnepromo.jpg/200px-AncientMewThePowerofOnepromo.jpg

I think you mean
https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51N8HTN4S2L._AC_UL320_SR224,320_.jpg