Aether Revolt -or- Kaladesh 2: Ghirapur Drift

[Ace/Homebrew]

No spoilers yet, but there are some pictures we can speculate over!

http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/attachments/158/882/636104448251650785.jpg

Seems to be some contention over who the lady is, but most think it is Saheeli. I'm leaning towards Pia Nalaar.
I didn't notice anyone discussing the fact she's got Tezzeret's arm. :eek:

On second look... She's got two mechanical arms, so I guess they aren't Tezzerets...

http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/attachments/158/883/636104448338771389.jpg

And here's arm-less Tezzeret with what appears to be Salvage Titans.

[H]

Seems to be some contention over who the lady is, but most think it is Saheeli. I'm leaning towards Pia Nalaar.
I didn't notice anyone discussing the fact she's got Tezzeret's arm. :eek:

On second look... She's got two mechanical arms, so I guess they aren't Tezzerets...

Yeah, I'd bet on Pia, because why would we get another Saheeli card? Perhaps Pia as UR now? Although it does seem kind of odd that she'd get two cards, unless that just isn't card art or is just some random spell.



And here's arm-less Tezzeret with what appears to be Salvage Titans.

Masterpiece Salvage Titan? Lol. No, maybe just a reprint.

[jrsthethird]

The Gatewatch rescues Pia and kills Tezzeret?

[Barook]

How is that Tezzeret's arm? It doesn't look anything like that, given the ornaments the arm has while Tezzeret has a Phyrexian claw.

[Ace/Homebrew]

On second look... She's got two mechanical arms, so I guess they aren't Tezzerets...
Regardless of the reasoning, I had come to the same conclusion.

Where does Tezzeret stand on the sliding scale of morality anyway? For those who follow the lore, is he a good guy or a bad guy?
And if he's a bad guy, why would he be given such an esteemed position on Kaladesh?

[CptHaddock]

Regardless of the reasoning, I had come to the same conclusion.

Where does Tezzeret stand on the sliding scale of morality anyway? For those who follow the lore, is he a good guy or a bad guy?
And if he's a bad guy, why would he be given such an esteemed position on Kaladesh?

Isn't he supposed to follow the trope of a good guy working for bad people?

Edit: nevermind he's evil (http://magic.wizards.com/en/story/planeswalkers/tezzeret)

[ChaosOS]

He's Bolas' lackey, which makes him a bad guy. If he got a good position, it's because he's A. Wealthy B. Skilled in metal magic and C. A manipulative bastard with access to Bolas' resources. Also, it doesn't seem like the Consulate is entirely good either (See: Baral v Chandra)

[Aggro_zombies]

He's the classic "character with a crappy upbringing who, instead of rising above it to becoming a shining champion of the oppressed and downtrodden, instead turns into a scheming, back-stabbing mofo." He'd be doing all the same bad shit he's doing now if he weren't Bolas's muppet, he just doesn't have a choice in which bad things he does because Bolas has a claw up his ass at all times.

[Ace/Homebrew]

Kay...
So was he evil as Tezzeret the Seeker, or did he become evil? (or was he reconned as always being evil)


nevermind he's evil (http://magic.wizards.com/en/story/planeswalkers/tezzeret)
Read up at the link... looks like 'the Seeker' was always evil or was reconned as evil. Tez didn't get his spark until moments before Bolas revived him and made him evil. So unless the card depicts Tez between 'his spark igniting after being mortally wounded' and 'Bolas reviving him', he was evil...

[Sylphnir]

Kay...
So was he evil as Tezzeret the Seeker, or did he become evil? (or was he reconned as always being evil)


Read up at the link... looks like 'the Seeker' was always evil or was reconned as evil. Tez didn't get his spark until moments before Bolas revived him and made him evil. So unless the card depicts Tez between 'his spark igniting after being mortally wounded' and 'Bolas reviving him', he was evil...
He turned evil in his very first appearance (http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/feature/seekers-fall-part-1-2009-01-20), before he met Bolas or even ignited his spark.
No retcon necessary.

If that woman turns out to be Pia, she somehow lost like almost 20 years of age in between sets... oÔ

[Darkenslight]

He turned evil in his very first appearance (http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/feature/seekers-fall-part-1-2009-01-20), before he met Bolas or even ignited his spark.
No retcon necessary.

If that woman turns out to be Pia, she somehow lost like almost 20 years of age in between sets... oÔ

It could be Oviya or Rashmi. I'm leaning towards Oviya, consdidering the quality of her armor.

[HdH_Cthulhu]

Is bolas evil?

[PirateKing]

Is bolas evil?

Just misunderstood

[MaximumC]

Just misunderstood

Bolas' claws slipped from the decanter with a soft tone as he leaned back in his chair. The Dominarian leather still brought back memories of other times; greater times, happier times. He swirled the leaded wine in its glass and watched the flames dance in the fireplace. The mantle, fashioned from bones of his enemies, cast mottled shadows across his face as he contemplated the fire. No one could possibly understand. No one could grasp the depth of his sorrow, his suffering. Particularly not the younger generation that dared to call themselves "Planeswalkers." They were barely more than animals, happy and content to have learned how to create fire to cook their food. He had been able to command the very stars in the sky. And then... lobotomy. His very mind was ripped apart, his power stripped away. So far... he had fallen so far.

Bolas sipped from his glass and sank deeper into the armchair and his thoughts.

[Lemnear]

Is bolas evil?

Could be my Hero if he finally kills the Jacetice League or tell the blue Planeswalker to not stick his Jaceticles into every storyline. It's fucking time for a while new Planeswalker Squad which isn't as dumb and shallow as the current one. They need a reboot

[Darkenslight]

Is bolas evil?

He's Sherlock Holmes, only an old Dragon. So, not so much evil, as a high-functioning sociopath.

[MaximumC]

He's Sherlock Holmes, only an old Dragon. So, not so much evil, as a high-functioning sociopath.

Professor Moriarty, please. Leave your justice-obsessed inferior in the wings.

[Ruta Barracuda]

Could be my Hero if he finally kills the Jacetice League or tell the blue Planeswalker to not stick his Jaceticles into every storyline. It's fucking time for a while new Planeswalker Squad which isn't as dumb and shallow as the current one. They need a reboot

Agreed. I'm all for either:

1) Switching the story to where we left Karn in New Phyrexia

Or

2) A return to Dominaria

[Barook]

Agreed. I'm all for either:

1) Switching the story to where we left Karn in New Phyrexia

Or

2) A return to Dominaria
1) Is going to involve the Jacetice League. Bet on it.

2) I love Dominaria as much as the next guy, but what's left there? It's a clusterfuck of devestation with whole continents gone, Rath overlay and time rift shenanigans. Also, shouldn't slivers be rampant there now?

[Cire]

Could be my Hero if he finally kills the Jacetice League or tell the blue Planeswalker to not stick his Jaceticles into every storyline. It's fucking time for a while new Planeswalker Squad which isn't as dumb and shallow as the current one. They need a reboot

Would love if they develop the non-core PWs as a sort of Justice League Dark.




2) I love Dominaria as much as the next guy, but what's left there? It's a clusterfuck of devestation with whole continents gone, Rath overlay and time rift shenanigans. Also, shouldn't slivers be rampant there now?

What did happen post time-spiral block - story wise. I could've sworn everything was "fixed" :eyebrow:

[Ruta Barracuda]

@Barook: I'd much prefer it to just be Karn vs Phyrexian carnage. The whole Superfriends thing is getting old - we need to see some Karn vs Bolas too. Dominaria is ripe for new lore, alternate reality stuff, inadvertent return of Yawgmoth and or Brothers. Maybe finally a way to give us the Urza Planeswalker card we've been dreaming of?

@ Cire: A Phyrexian Planeswalker would be awesome. As far as what happened post-mending on Dominaria, it's kind of vague. There's been a lot of carnage and death, and it's probably ripe for a bunch of lore-inspired stuff that could get people like me really excited. It's still the nexus of the multiverse (I think) so stuff probably has to go down there at some point again anyway.

[joven]

It could be Oviya or Rashmi. I'm leaning towards Oviya, consdidering the quality of her armor.

It is probably just a so far unknown person.


Is bolas evil?

All I know is, he is the black-centered of the original and time-honored Elder Dragon Cycle from Legends. Everything else is more or less retcon, I guess.


Would love if they develop the non-core PWs as a sort of Justice League Dark.

No, please no. That would be even more cheesy and childish as the Jacetice Leage, and that on top of what we already have. It would also further reduce story variance if the antagonists were all members of the same group. :/

[Cire]

No, please no. That would be even more cheesy and childish as the Jacetice Leage, and that on top of what we already have. It would also further reduce story variance if the antagonists were all members of the same group. :/

Justice Leauge Dark =/= Justice Lords. :smile:

[Bobmans]

That Tezzeret story is sooo lame, he's just an angry boy that didn't get what he wanted. Nobody listened to him and now he wants revenge.... he's like those madmen in the US that guns down people in the malls.

[Ace/Homebrew]

He's like those madmen in the US that guns down people in the malls.
He's more like those madmen in the Netherlands that gun people down in malls. :rolleyes:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alphen_aan_den_Rijn_shopping_mall_shooting

[BenBleiweiss]

Spoilers! https://www.reddit.com/r/magicTCG/comments/5fkmtb/aether_revolt_pic_from_fb/

Yahenni's Expertise
2BB Sorcery (Rare)
All creatures get -3/-3 until end of turn.
You may cast a card with converted mana cost 3 or less from your hand without paying its mana cost.

Trophy Mage
2U (Uncommon)
Creature - Human Wizard
When ~ enters the battlefield, you may search your library for an artifact card with converted mana cost 3, reveal it, put it into your hand, then shuffle your library.
2/2

Scrap Trawler
3 (Rare)
Artifact Creature - Construct
Whenever ~ or another artifact you control is put into a graveyard from the battlefield, return to your hand target artifact card in your graveyard with lesser converted mana cost.
3/2

[Philipp2293]

There has to be a way to break Scrap Trawler. First thing that comes to mind is Thopter Foundry, Sotm, Lotus Petal and Trawler for infinite activations :P

[Barook]

@Trophy Mage: What are good 3-mana artifacts worth fetching? Aside from Trinisphere and all the other Stax shenanigans.

I wonder if the "cast cheaper spells for free" is a one-shot card or an actual theme in the set and if there are any Eternal-worthy spells.

[CptHaddock]

There has to be a way to break Scrap Trawler. First thing that comes to mind is Thopter Foundry, Sotm, Lotus Petal and Trawler for infinite activations :P

You can recur LED with this right? If so you can basically go the bomberman route of LED for infinite mana -> something. Not sure what the something is though. I'm also not sure that combo is actually better than bomberman.

[square_two]

@Trophy Mage: What are good 3-mana artifacts worth fetching? Aside from Trinisphere and all the other Stax shenanigans.

Mage is a stax ALL STAR. Ensnaring Bridge, Crucible, Trinisphere, Tangle Wire...Metalworker?

Vedalken Shackles also, if blue stax is viable. :rolleyes:

[Philipp2293]

You can recur LED with this right? If so you can basically go the bomberman route of LED for infinite mana -> something. Not sure what the something is though. I'm also not sure that combo is actually better than bomberman.

It's lesser mana cost, not equal or lesser, unfortunately :rolleyes:

[Soldier of Fortune]

@Trophy Mage: What are good 3-mana artifacts worth fetching? Aside from Trinisphere and all the other Stax shenanigans.

I wonder if the "cast cheaper spells for free" is a one-shot card or an actual theme in the set and if there are any Eternal-worthy spells.

It can get both Painter's Servant and Grindstone.

[Barook]

It can get both Painter's Servant and Grindstone.
Neither of them costs 3.

[Soldier of Fortune]

Neither of them costs 3.

Oops. Reading is key. I thought it said 3 or less.

[Megadeus]

Oops. Reading is key. I thought it said 3 or less.

That card would be fucking nutty

[Wilkin]

Yahanni's Expertise looks pretty awesome. I'm wondering though. So because the -3/-3 effect is first on the card, can you cast say a Dark Confidant with the free part of the spell and it wouldn't die to your Expertise?

I wonder if anyone will try this with Hypergenesis or Ancestral Visions (in Shardless BUG). Hypergenesis seems busted although those decks right now are RUG colors right now.

[Dice_Box]

@Trophy Mage: What are good 3-mana artifacts worth fetching? Aside from Trinisphere and all the other Stax shenanigans.

I wonder if the "cast cheaper spells for free" is a one-shot card or an actual theme in the set and if there are any Eternal-worthy spells.Most of my Stax deck is three. The issue is we just got Fair, that you can loop with Crucible.

[Ace/Homebrew]

There's a red creature in that pic that is difficult to make out.

Appears to be:

Quicksmith Rebel :3::r:
Creature - Human Artificer
When Quicksmith Rebel enters the
battlefield, target artifact (you control?)
gains "T: This artifact (deals N damage?)
to target creature or (player” as long?)
as you control Quicksmith Rebel.
Unknown P/T

Also, looks like Ajani and Tezzeret will be the planeswalkers in this set.

[guillemnicolau]

Yahanni's Expertise looks pretty awesome. I'm wondering though. So because the -3/-3 effect is first on the card, can you cast say a Dark Confidant with the free part of the spell and it wouldn't die to your Expertise?.

I guess Bob would be fine. Although I would prefer playing a LotV after cleaning the battlefield.

[mistercakes]

not sure how useful it is, but all the swords are 3cc right? trinisphere and ensnaring bridge come to mind.

[colo]

Yahenni's Expertise - wipe board, draw 3 from Ancestral Vision?

[mistercakes]

seems great. good catch. just remember you don't get the free cast until the 1st card resolves.

[bruizar]

So Expertise into Boom // Bust should also work then.

[Barook]

Yahenni's Expertise - wipe board, draw 3 from Ancestral Vision?
If this and Scrap Trawler are any indication for a "less CC spells matter", I wouldn't be suprised if this gets broken by some cheaper spells with the same mechanic. Also, if that's the case, Restore Balance.

[Lemnear]

If this and Scrap Trawler are any indication for a "less CC spells matter", I wouldn't be suprised if this gets broken by some cheaper spells with the same mechanic. Also, if that's the case, Restore Balance.

As we know WotC they will print an UW counter which lets you cast an 1cc or less spell for free

[rufus]

So Expertise into Boom // Bust should also work then.

Yep. You can even cast Beck // Call with fuse for four tokens and four cards, or Myr Superion.

Part of me wonders about the potential with Wheel of Fate and Past in Flames.

[tescrin]

If this and Scrap Trawler are any indication for a "less CC spells matter", I wouldn't be suprised if this gets broken by some cheaper spells with the same mechanic. Also, if that's the case, Restore Balance.

It'll finally balance the format ;)

[HdH_Cthulhu]

not sure how useful it is, but all the swords are 3cc right?

8 sfm? Or mage stompy...

[rufus]

@Trophy Mage: What are good 3-mana artifacts worth fetching? Aside from Trinisphere and all the other Stax shenanigans.
...

Ensnaring Bridge,Master of Etherium, Etched Champion,Shardless Agent, and Staff of Domination/Metalworker, the swords, and some random stuff with combo potential.

[The Nobodys]

Scrap Trawler does some broken things with Thopter Foundry/Sword of the Meek. Lotus Petal = infinite thopters and life. Plus, the trawler just makes the combo more reduntant in the form of recursion. And how about just Tralwer + Mishra's and Urza's Baubles.

[Megadeus]

Scrap Trawler does some broken things with Thopter Foundry/Sword of the Meek. Lotus Petal = infinite thopters and life. Plus, the trawler just makes the combo more reduntant in the form of recursion. And how about just Tralwer + Mishra's and Urza's Baubles.

Don't think it works because he says the mana cost has to be less. So once you hit zero you have to stop

[rufus]

Don't think it works because he says the mana cost has to be less. So once you hit zero you have to stop

You sack Sword of the Meek to Thopter Foundry. The trigger off scrap trawler lets you return Lotus Petal and then the triggered ability on sword of the meek returns it to play. Then you play and sack lotus petal for mana to activate the foundry. Rinse and repeat as necessary.

It's basically useless but I think you can copy Composite Golem with Sculpting Steel or Phyrexian Metamorph and repeatedly sack and recast it for infinite mana and storm.

Something that's probably a bit more interesting is Scrapheap Trawler + eggs. Recycling lotus petal (or a doubled mox opal) turns eggs into freecyclers, and recycling the baubles can get extra card draw.

There might also be stupid tricks with Metalwork Colossus.

[Cire]

People already noticed but Expertise can let you cast fuse cards both sides for free (as longs as CMC is 3 or less on one side).

Beck//Call is pretty good.

For a 2 card combo for 2BB, you give all creatures -3/-3, draw 4 cards and have 4/4 flying power out.

Breaking//Entering also seems nice

For a 2 card combo for 2BB, you give all creatures -3/-3, and get get a giant creature into play, as long as that creature is in the top 8 cards of your deck and it doesn't have a graveyard clause.

[Megadeus]

You sack Sword of the Meek to Thopter Foundry. The trigger off scrap trawler lets you return Lotus Petal and then the triggered ability on sword of the meek returns it to play. Then you play and sack lotus petal for mana to activate the foundry. Rinse and repeat as necessary.

It's basically useless but I think you can copy Composite Golem with Sculpting Steel or Phyrexian Metamorph and repeatedly sack and recast it for infinite mana and storm.

Something that's probably a bit more interesting is Scrapheap Trawler + eggs. Recycling lotus petal (or a doubled mox opal) turns eggs into freecyclers, and recycling the baubles can get extra card draw.

There might also be stupid tricks with Metalwork Colossus.

You're right. I was off in my own stupid world

[tescrin]

Scrap Trawler does some broken things with Thopter Foundry/Sword of the Meek. Lotus Petal = infinite thopters and life. Plus, the trawler just makes the combo more reduntant in the form of recursion. And how about just Tralwer + Mishra's and Urza's Baubles.

Not really. That's a 4 card combo that does a poor imitation of already existing 3 card combos. TF, Sword, Ashnod's gives that, but also gives infinite mana.

[The Nobodys]

Not really. That's a 4 card combo that does a poor imitation of already existing 3 card combos. TF, Sword, Ashnod's gives that, but also gives infinite mana.

That's true. However, Scrap Trawler is a much better card outside of the combo. It's a relatively good body, and gives you some card advantage / combo protection options if thopter foundry was destroyed. I'm not saying it's an amazing combo, but it seems like an interesting and potentially powerful inclusion.

[rufus]

Quicksmith rebel is fully spoiled. Seems cute with Winter Orb, but I'm not sure there are any real combo possibilities.

[Darkenslight]

Quicksmith rebel is fully spoiled. Seems cute with Winter Orb, but I'm not sure there are any real combo possibilities.

Static Orb? 3Sphere? Howling Mine?

[mistercakes]

might be fine with a way to protect it, like lightning greaves. maybe this has a place in a welder/mud deck

also could be okay with any artifact that has an untap ability. there might be some whacky combos in there.

certainly reminds me of flame fusillade with time vault in old legacy. anybody else remember any other cards that had some kind of similar kill effect? (looking for any way to untap an artifact easily)

[rufus]

...
certainly reminds me of flame fusillade with time vault in old legacy. anybody else remember any other cards that had some kind of similar kill effect? (looking for any way to untap an artifact easily)

Fusillade is still legal, so if there were some other combo piece, it's likely we'd know about it.

[mistercakes]

yep makes sense. not sure where it would go then! i like lightning greaves as you have a guy who's protected with an artifact that just deals 2 per turn for free. also the earlier mentioned idea of trinisphere or winter orb is pretty sweet with it.

it is quite cool with staff of domination, 1 colorless mana = 2 damage.

[mgrinshpon]

yep makes sense. not sure where it would go then!

I posted a list that did something like this a while back: http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?28750-Daretti-Goblin-Welder-(Da-Welder)&p=951528&viewfull=1#post951528 Adding a second effect like this might make the deck way more viable, a la 8 Moon Stompy decks. City of Traitors, Ancient Tomb, Rishadan Port, Wasteland, Crucible, Ghiapur Aether Grid, Winter Orb, Mox Diamond, this 3/2 guy, etc sounds like a pretty sweet prison sentence to me.

[Ace/Homebrew]

I am initially evaluating the Quicksmith as 'not good enough' for Legacy. A 4-mana 3/2 seems pretty underwhelming given what Legacy does.

It does look like it has some promise in Modern though. I'm not that familiar with Lantern Control, but it seems like a reasonable win-con in something like that...

[mgrinshpon]

I am initially evaluating the Quicksmith as 'not good enough' for Legacy. A 4-mana 3/2 seems pretty underwhelming given what Legacy does.

It does look like it has some promise in Modern though. I'm not that familiar with Lantern Control, but it seems like a reasonable win-con in something like that...

I'd think that Ghirapur Aether Grid is just better in that deck. Lantern wants ensnaring bridges and the grid turns those into burn, too.

I just made a quick mono-red stax list that may be worse than good ol' dragon stompy or painter, but here it is:

3 Ancient Tomb
2 City of Traitors
4 Ghost Quarter
2 Great Furnace
8 Mountain
4 Rishadan Port
4 Wasteland
4 Quicksmith Rebel
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
2 Crucible of Worlds
2 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Ghirapur Aether Grid
4 Mox Diamond
2 Tangle Wire
3 Trinisphere
4 Winter Orb

The payoff cards are Quicksmith Rebel (symmetry breaker), Grid (symmetry breaker), and Chandra (which both draws you cards and ramps you into your spells under orb effects). Tangle Wire would probably be better if Daretti, Goblin Welder were in here but whatever, this is a proof of concept. It's possible that smokestack is just actually better in this list?

Edit: maybe it's worth cutting some mountains for fetches and playing a white splash for Thalia, Heretic Cathar which works really well with Winter Orb, Static Orb, and Crucible but not as well with the Quicksmith Rebel/Grid plan.

[Barook]

I'd think that Ghirapur Aether Grid is just better in that deck. Lantern wants ensnaring bridges and the grid turns those into burn, too.

I just made a quick mono-red stax list that may be worse than good ol' dragon stompy or painter, but here it is:

3 Ancient Tomb
2 City of Traitors
4 Ghost Quarter
2 Great Furnace
8 Mountain
4 Rishadan Port
4 Wasteland
4 Quicksmith Rebel
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
2 Crucible of Worlds
2 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Ghirapur Aether Grid
4 Mox Diamond
2 Tangle Wire
3 Trinisphere
4 Winter Orb

The payoff cards are Quicksmith Rebel (symmetry breaker), Grid (symmetry breaker), and Chandra (which both draws you cards and ramps you into your spells under orb effects). Tangle Wire would probably be better if Daretti, Goblin Welder were in here but whatever, this is a proof of concept. It's possible that smokestack is just actually better in this list?

Edit: maybe it's worth cutting some mountains for fetches and playing a white splash for Thalia, Heretic Cathar which works really well with Winter Orb, Static Orb, and Crucible but not as well with the Quicksmith Rebel/Grid plan.
Shouldn't you max Ensnaring Bridge with those kind of wincons? I could also see a blue splash for Trophy Mage working to increase consistency. Also, why not Blood Moon?

[mgrinshpon]

Shouldn't you max Ensnaring Bridge with those kind of wincons? I could also see a blue splash for Trophy Mage working to increase consistency. Also, why not Blood Moon?

Keep in mind I made the list in about 5 minutes while eating a sandwich, so it can't all be right (except the sandwich, that was great). 2 more ensnaring bridges over the tangle wires is probably way better, yeah. Blood Moon isn't an artifact and was a nonbo with Rishadan Ports which work well on paper with Mox Diamond, Crucible of Worlds, and Winter Orb. Blood Moon seems more like a sideboard card against a deck like Lands or Eldrazi where you're probably still okay with your 8 mountains and 4 moxen.

The sideboard is probably looking for cards like Tabernacle, Phyrexian Revoker, Kozilek's Return, Sudden Demise, Tormod's Crypt, Blood Moon, Tangle Wire (Vs Eldrazi in particular since so much of the deck is dead against them), Sphere of Resistance, Lodestone Golem, Boil, and/or From the Ashes.

[Wilkin]

I am initially evaluating the Quicksmith as 'not good enough' for Legacy. A 4-mana 3/2 seems pretty underwhelming given what Legacy does.

It does look like it has some promise in Modern though. I'm not that familiar with Lantern Control, but it seems like a reasonable win-con in something like that...

Perhaps but I like Ghirapur Aether Grid in Lantern. And the Grid is a bit harder to get rid of than the Quicksmith.

[Philipp2293]

It does look like it has some promise in Modern though. I'm not that familiar with Lantern Control, but it seems like a reasonable win-con in something like that...

Well, you don't need actual wincons, and if I was forced to run one, I'd run something less fragile.

[bruizar]

I'd think that Ghirapur Aether Grid is just better in that deck. Lantern wants ensnaring bridges and the grid turns those into burn, too.

I just made a quick mono-red stax list that may be worse than good ol' dragon stompy or painter, but here it is:

3 Ancient Tomb
2 City of Traitors
4 Ghost Quarter
2 Great Furnace
8 Mountain
4 Rishadan Port
4 Wasteland
4 Quicksmith Rebel
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
2 Crucible of Worlds
2 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Ghirapur Aether Grid
4 Mox Diamond
2 Tangle Wire
3 Trinisphere
4 Winter Orb

The payoff cards are Quicksmith Rebel (symmetry breaker), Grid (symmetry breaker), and Chandra (which both draws you cards and ramps you into your spells under orb effects). Tangle Wire would probably be better if Daretti, Goblin Welder were in here but whatever, this is a proof of concept. It's possible that smokestack is just actually better in this list?

Edit: maybe it's worth cutting some mountains for fetches and playing a white splash for Thalia, Heretic Cathar which works really well with Winter Orb, Static Orb, and Crucible but not as well with the Quicksmith Rebel/Grid plan.

Man, I like this draft

[Barook]

New PW:

Ajani, the Unshakable :4::g::w:
Planeswalker - Ajani

[+2] Reveal the top 3 cards from your library, put all nonland permanents in your hand and the rest on the bottom of your library in any order.

[-2] Exile target creature, its controller gains life equal its power.

[-9] Put five +1+1 counters on each creature you control and fiveloyalty counters on each other planeswalker you control.
Loyalty {4}

Most likely too expensive for Legacy for what it does.

[Dice_Box]

Sweet. I like him. I don't think he's good, but I like him. Card advantage, removal and pump. One of these days I will build EDH superfriends.

[Darkenslight]

Sweet. I like him. I don't think he's good, but I like him. Card advantage, removal and pump. One of these days I will build EDH superfriends.

You'd best be playing at least GW, and likely one of either Red or Blue. OR you can got he whole hog and pl;ay all five colors. :D

[Cire]

I see two Ajani's spoiled. . .

Ajani, Valorous Protector 4GW
Planeswalker - Ajani
+2 : Put two +1/+1 counters on up to one target creature.
+1 : Reveal the top card of your library until a creature card is revealed. Put it into your hand and put all other cards revealed this way onto the bottom of your library in a random order.
-11 : Put X +1/+1 counters on target creature, where X is equal to your life total. That creature gains trample until end of turn.
4

[H]

I see two Ajani's spoiled. . .

Ajani, Valorous Protector 4GW
Planeswalker - Ajani
+2 : Put two +1/+1 counters on up to one target creature.
+1 : Reveal the top card of your library until a creature card is revealed. Put it into your hand and put all other cards revealed this way onto the bottom of your library in a random order.
-11 : Put X +1/+1 counters on target creature, where X is equal to your life total. That creature gains trample until end of turn.
4

That is the precon, intro pack one, like the Chandra and Nissa from the previous set.

[Cire]

That is the precon, intro pack one, like the Chandra and Nissa from the previous set.

Ha, forgot about those - that explains why it's so so terrible.

[Ace/Homebrew]

http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/avatars/thumbnails/128/376/200/283/636165307934766612.png

I kind of assume this is the shitty pre-con version...

Edit - Yeah, the 'foiliness' in the picture matches that of the pre-con Ajani. But this probably confirms Tezz will be :u::b:

[H]

I kind of assume this is the shitty pre-con version...

Edit - Yeah, the 'foiliness' in the picture matches that of the pre-con Ajani. But this probably confirms Tezz will be :u::b:

Yes, the collector's number is 190/184, so it is Intro Pack.

I really hope this new Tezz is :1::u::b: but I doubt it. Probably be 5 or 6 CMC.

[Barook]

http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/avatars/thumbnails/128/376/200/283/636165307934766612.png

I kind of assume this is the shitty pre-con version...

Edit - Yeah, the 'foiliness' in the picture matches that of the pre-con Ajani. But this probably confirms Tezz will be :u::b:
If a card is called the fucking "Master of Metal", I expect something awesome. Not this.

[Ephemeron]

If a card is called the fucking "Master of Metal", I expect something awesome. Not this.

He's in the perfect position to have someone alter the art to have him holding an electric guitar though, which would make the card infinitely more awesome.

[BenBleiweiss]

http://i.imgur.com/ho1lFmI.png

[Barook]

Heart of Kiran looks good, although I'm not too sure which deck could get the most use out of it.


He's in the perfect position to have someone alter the art to have him holding an electric guitar though, which would make the card infinitely more awesome.
Apparently, Mishra's Photoshop on Twitter was already on it:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cy79GUGUAAAnZ7q.jpg

[Megadeus]

Remove a counter from my garruk to crew the new thing, flip Gary!

[Meekrab]

Chandra +2, shock you, fly Daddy's airship, fly Daddy's airship again to block, lather, rinse, repeat.

Probably awful everywhere but Standard but the flavor works.

[Ace/Homebrew]

Probably awful everywhere but Standard but the flavor works.

http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/avatars/thumbnails/126/877/200/283/636087005960239667.png

Chandra doesn't have a +2.
But you do bring up a point I didn't realize at first. The crew ability doesn't have a timing restriction like using a planeswalker's loyalty ability does!

So is this card better at protecting planeswalkers than tradional creatures? It is certainly more efficient than pretty much any creature. And it is removal resistant...

[rufus]

...
But you do bring up a point I didn't realize at first. The crew ability doesn't have a timing restriction like using a planeswalker's loyalty ability does!
...

Yep, you can use Heart of Kiran plus Catch // Release to kill opposing planeswalkers.

[Dice_Box]

Voidslime printed at 1uu.

Edit.
Improvise, new keyword. Convoke but for Artifacts. Cool.
http://magic.wizards.com/sites/mtg/files/EN_MS-AER-08PortraitPost.jpg

[rufus]

Hmm...

Pia's Revelation


Whenever a nontoken artifact is put into your graveyard from the battlefield, return that card to your hand unless target opponent has Pia's Revolution deal 3 damage to him or her.


Pity there's no easy way to give the opponent hexproof or protection from red. Even so, this seems like it could work well with trinkets and the recently spoiled scrap trawler in an egg deck of sorts.

[Aggro_zombies]

Voidslime printed at 1uu.

Edit.
Improvise, new keyword. Convoke but for Artifacts. Cool.
http://magic.wizards.com/sites/mtg/files/EN_MS-AER-08PortraitPost.jpg
And after I just picked up a foil Voidslime for EDH...oh well.

Convoke for artifacts isn't the worst. In a lot of ways, it's better for Legacy than actual convoke.

[HdH_Cthulhu]

Cost reducers with artefacts; inb4 broken draw spell! But yah its just worse affinity!?

[Dice_Box]

Cost reducers with artefacts; inb4 broken draw spell! But yah its just worse affinity!?

Not totally. Affinity can't be used to cast a spell. So if this is printed on a card that fits into a Stax shell, you could use Improvise to pay for Spheres and Thorns.

[Darkenslight]

Unlikely to see play in anything outside of Standard and Coimmander, but there's also this:

Dark Intimations - :2: :u: :b: :r:

Sorcery (Rare)

Each opponent sacrifices a creature or planeswalker, then discards a card. You return a creature or planeswalker card from your graveyard to your hand, then draw a card.

When you cast a Bolas planeswalker spell, exile Dark Intimations from your graveyard. That planeswalker enters the battlefield with an additional loyalty counter on it.

[Lemnear]

Not totally. Affinity can't be used to cast a spell. So if this is printed on a card that fits into a Stax shell, you could use Improvise to pay for Spheres and Thorns.

Thats what we needed. Cost cheating abilities for decks running Thorn & Chalice *eyesroll*

This is a worse version of Affinity in my books, as its only useable with non-mana artifacts. One might say, that this makes it safe in an environment with Moxen, Petals & LEDs, but it also plays along the named permanent hate, which might be critical given the current position of Eldrazi

[rufus]

...
This is a worse version of Affinity in my books
...

Probably comparable with convoke. I wonder if they'll print a blue artifact version of Chord of Calling.

[Lemnear]

Probably comparable with convoke. I wonder if they'll print a blue artifact version of Chord of Calling.

Uh...uh....dont gimme ideas. Unless it costs at least XXUU its broken

[MaximumC]

Uh...uh....dont gimme ideas. Unless it costs at least XXUU its broken

I don't see why. We have Transmute Artifact and Reshape in Legacy and they hardly see any play. What is your planned application for an artifact Chord?

[Dice_Box]

Go and get Lotus Bloom.

[Turboninja]

Say it would cost XXU, for U you get a LED. Storm wouldn't mind.

The point is that artifacts can cost 0, which would clearly be abused. Imagine the toolbox of Needle, Tormod's Crypt, Graftdigger's Cage, etc.

Painter's would be awesome.

It would need to cost at least XXUU to NOT be broken.

[Julian23]

Hmm...

Pia's Revelation


Pity there's no easy way to give the opponent hexproof or protection from red. Even so, this seems like it could work well with trinkets and the recently spoiled scrap trawler in an egg deck of sorts.

If the opponent had hexproof or protection from red, Pia's Revelation's ability would be countered since it had no legal target.

[MaximumC]

Go and get Lotus Bloom.

But you can do that now. Play an artifact land, sac it to Transmute Artifact or Reshape, boom, there ya go.

[Lemnear]

But you can do that now. Play an artifact land, sac it to Transmute Artifact or Reshape, boom, there ya go.

You have to sac an artifact and it costs UU. Worlds apart

[Barook]

Wouldn't both Baubles benefit from Improvise, since they're free to drop and can replace themselves after their job is done? Also, the reminder text of Improvise reads like vomit.

[rufus]

Wouldn't both Baubles benefit from Improvise, since they're free to drop and can replace themselves after their job is done? Also, the reminder text of Improvise reads like vomit.

I'm not sure they'd be that great since they tend to get cashed in ASAP.

[sheriffharry]

New card:

http://i1160.photobucket.com/albums/q485/sheriffharry1/Disallow_zpsg19osmpb.png

[Megadeus]

Old card, new mana cost

[Lemnear]

Old card, new mana cost

I wonder if the card or Voidslime would be playable at 2cc

[Megadeus]

I mean, it would be a strict upgrade to counterspell, so yes.

[Turboninja]

I'm looking ahead and anticipating a few instant improvise cards that will make Winter Orb an awesome card, seing as you can tap it during your opponent's turn with improvise to untap all of you lands. Trinisphere has the same effect, but I cannot think of a way to abuse it really.

[Lemnear]

I mean, it would be a strict upgrade to counterspell, so yes.

That is obvious. The question was more in the direction of this would make 2cc counterspells relevant again aside being a 1-/2-off in Miracles

[Ace/Homebrew]

Would [this] make 2cc counterspells relevant again aside being a 1-/2-off in Miracles

It would depend on if the decks wanting a Stifle effect are willing to pay an additional :u: every time for occasionally getting to counter a spell instead. Outside of StifleNaught, I'd say no…

Tempo values the mana efficiency more than the versatility (given that all its other counter magic is 'free').

The decks that want to counter a spell for :u::u: would clearly adopt it as it would be a strict upgrade, but there are not many of those.

[Meekrab]

Unlikely to see play in anything outside of Standard and Coimmander, but there's also this:

Dark Intimations - :2: :u: :b: :r:

Sorcery (Rare)

Each opponent sacrifices a creature or planeswalker, then discards a card. You return a creature or planeswalker card from your graveyard to your hand, then draw a card.

When you cast a Bolas planeswalker spell, exile Dark Intimations from your graveyard. That planeswalker enters the battlefield with an additional loyalty counter on it.
I could see it as a fun-of in a Modern Grixis control deck, depending on how many planeswalkers are in your metagame.

Also I'm wondering if this card killing planeswalkers... intimates that a member of the Super Happy Fun friends is gonna take a dirt nap at the end of Aether Revolt.

[slave]

I could see it as a fun-of in a Modern Grixis control deck, depending on how many planeswalkers are in your metagame.

Also I'm wondering if this card killing planeswalkers... intimates that a member of the Super Happy Fun friends is gonna take a dirt nap at the end of Aether Revolt.
Dark Intimations looks like a decent casual card for multiplayer grixis, as this thing effectively scales pretty well, but it's way too slow for me in either Modern or legacy.

[Barook]

Also I'm wondering if this card killing planeswalkers... intimates that a member of the Super Happy Fun friends is gonna take a dirt nap at the end of Aether Revolt.
I doubt they would kill a Gatewatch member this early for marketing reasons. If they off a PW, it would probably be either Ajani (which Bolas bears a grudge against because he whooped his ass) or Tezzeret for failing him.

[Ace/Homebrew]

I doubt they would kill a Gatewatch member this early for marketing reasons. If they off a PW, it would probably be either Ajani (which Bolas bears a grudge against because he whooped his ass) or Tezzeret for failing him.

I agree with you... buuuuuut, it's not like they couldn't magically bring them back.

Does anyone really think WotC has printed their last Elspeth card? :rolleyes:

[rufus]

I could see it as a fun-of in a Modern Grixis control deck, depending on how many planeswalkers are in your metagame.....

You could play it as a bad Cruel Ultimatum in Conflux/Dream Halls combo.

[MaximumC]

I mean, it would be a strict upgrade to counterspell, so yes.

Can you imagine? Print that, and watch Counternaught roar back with a vengeance! Sink Hole, Flusterstorm (against Storm) a 12/12, and Counterspell all rolled into one? HELL YES.

[Ace/Homebrew]

So Ajani definitely doesn't die on Kaladesh...

He's on the packaging for the sets after Amonkhet:

http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/attachments/160/296/636168028310580519.png

[Cire]

Are we getting another Vraska ?

[Lemnear]

Egypt and Aztec block confirmed.

[MaximumC]

I like that they're running down the list of different cultures and ticking off the list.

I don't like how there is a set called "Conquest of Power." That may just take the new crown as Worst Named Set Ever. Geez, if this is our standard for naming, now, let's just go ahead and crank out some more:

Quest for Magic
Magic of Power
Victory of Battle
Magic for Quests
Power of Power
Power Magic of Quest for Power

Look ma I'm a set designer

[Barook]

I like that they're running down the list of different cultures and ticking off the list.
This begs the question:

Where the hell are my vikings?

http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=198084&type=card

[ESG]

This begs the question: Where the hell are my vikings?

On Phyrexia?

http://magiccards.info/scans/en/mr/280.jpg

[Manipulato]

I like that they're running down the list of different cultures and ticking off the list.

I don't like how there is a set called "Conquest of Power." That may just take the new crown as Worst Named Set Ever. Geez, if this is our standard for naming, now, let's just go ahead and crank out some more:

Quest for Magic
Magic of Power
Victory of Battle
Magic for Quests
Power of Power
Power Magic of Quest for Power

Look ma I'm a set designer

Totally agree. Conquest of Power & Hour of Devastation sounds like trashy YugiOh editions

[Lemnear]

Totally agree. Conquest of Power & Hour of Devastation sounds like trashy YugiOh editions

Come on ... MtG already introduced Trap-Cards and the game us all about Dragons, Demons and other Fatties crashing into each other.

[Whitefaces]

Come on ... MtG already introduced Trap-Cards and the game us all about Dragons, Demons and other Fatties crashing into each other.

Fatties are just Scathe Zombies with kicker.

[DarthVicious]

Fatties are just Scathe Zombies with kicker.

And trap cards have a kicker your opponent pays for.

[MaximumC]

Fatties are just Scathe Zombies with kicker.

Excuse me, but Scathe Zombies are just Mons Goblin Raiders with kicker.

[bruizar]

Excuse me, but Scathe Zombies are just Mons Goblin Raiders with kicker.

Which are just stronger Kobolds

[Crimhead]

Saddest thing about this block is that WotC will never throw a bone to Affinity, lest they bolster the Modern counterpart. Damn you, Modern!

The best we can hope for is a new toy for Tezzerator, or possibly MUD.

[Dice_Box]

Saddest thing about this block is that WotC will never throw a bone to Affinity, lest they bolster the Modern counterpart. Damn you, Modern!

The best we can hope for is a new toy for Tezzerator, or possibly MUD.Inventor’s Fair was not nothing from the last set. You never know.

[Zombie]

Saddest thing about this block is that WotC will never throw a bone to Affinity, lest they bolster the Modern counterpart. Damn you, Modern!

The best we can hope for is a new toy for Tezzerator, or possibly MUD.

There is a pretty huge Affinity creature in the set. Won't make it in Legacy, but Gearseeker Serpent made a splash in Pauper Affinity (and let me tell you that deck doesn't incorporate new cards lightly)

[Pilhas]

Saddest thing about this block is that WotC will never throw a bone to Affinity, lest they bolster the Modern counterpart. Damn you, Modern!

The best we can hope for is a new toy for Tezzerator, or possibly MUD.

can always go for a fleetwheel cruiser like vintage did. Maybe its fine

[Dice_Box]

can always go for a fleetwheel cruiser like vintage did. Maybe its fine4 Mana is hard when your not playing with the two most broken lands ever printed.

[Lemnear]

4 Mana is hard when your not playing with the two most broken lands ever printed.

According to Sean, lands are not broken by default....

[Fox]

It would depend on if the decks wanting a Stifle effect are willing to pay an additional :u: every time for occasionally getting to counter a spell instead. Outside of StifleNaught, I'd say no…

Tempo values the mana efficiency more than the versatility (given that all its other counter magic is 'free').

The decks that want to counter a spell for :u::u: would clearly adopt it as it would be a strict upgrade, but there are not many of those.
Stiflenought doesn't want this new mono-U Voidslime; 4 mana doesn't really leave any mana for Stifle redundancy nor backup countermagic (nevermind the whole Daze/Wasteland plan). Trickbind's split second is much better than counter target spell and +1 mana requirement. Instead of this new card you're probably better off spending that 4 mana magical christmasland on Reins of Power, because resolving that (especially at 5 mana or in response to a flicker) will actually win games. New card can't win a stack war nor will it ever survive discard-centric strategies (no more DTT to push that out of the meta).

The deck that runs Disallow probably has to be pretty dedicated to not actively trying to win a game of magic (miracles, blade), though I would actually expect to see it more in mono-U Vial decks (even with their ~8-9x colorless lands).

[Ace/Homebrew]

My comment was continuing a thought-experiment posed by Lemnear about what decks would use Disallow if it cost :u::u: instead of :1::u::u:.

No Legacy deck will want Disallow as printed.

[Fox]

My comment was continuing a thought-experiment posed by Lemnear about what decks would use Disallow if it cost :u::u: instead of :1::u::u:.

No Legacy deck will want Disallow as printed.
Ah missed that part. Were it only 2 cmc though, I don't think it would be unreasonable to expect R&D to do the right thing and make it cost :1::u: (devoid colorless mana requirement). The last thing legacy needs is to give Counterbalance a direct upgrade to their :u::u: Counterspell. :tongue:
On a side note the 3cmc part isn't as backbreaking as losing split second attached to the Stifle portion of Disallow; there is inherent value at this mana cost as opposed to 2cmc.

[MaximumC]

My comment was continuing a thought-experiment posed by Lemnear about what decks would use Disallow if it cost :u::u: instead of :1::u::u:.

No Legacy deck will want Disallow as printed.

Currently, Miracles plays Counterspell pretty commonly and Stoneblade variants play it sometimes. If you stapled Stifle on to Counterspell, then many more decks would play it. Basically, any control deck would have to have an EXTRAORDINARILY good reason not to play with a 2 mana hard counter that also acts like a 2 mana Stone Rain sometimes.

[Ace/Homebrew]

Posting the whole conversation leading up to where Fox quoted me 25 posts after the fact :wink::






Old card, new mana cost
I wonder if the card or Voidslime would be playable at 2cc
I mean, it would be a strict upgrade to counterspell, so yes.
That is obvious. The question was more in the direction of this would make 2cc counterspells relevant again aside being a 1-/2-off in Miracles
It would depend on if the decks wanting a Stifle effect are willing to pay an additional :u: every time for occasionally getting to counter a spell instead. Outside of StifleNaught, I'd say no…

Tempo values the mana efficiency more than the versatility (given that all its other counter magic is 'free').

The decks that want to counter a spell for :u::u: would clearly adopt it as it would be a strict upgrade, but there are not many of those.

[Dice_Box]

Tezzeret, "More metal than ever" 2UB

+1: Create a colorless artifact token named Etherium which has [t], sacrifice Etherium token: add one mana of any color into your mana pool.

-2: Target creature gets +X/-X until end of turn which X is the number of artifacts you control.

-7: You get an emblem with "At the beginning of your combat phase, target artifact you control becomes a 5/5 artifact creature."

5 Starting Loyalty.

https://i.redd.it/xb0x3s6v9g4y.png


"Slaves
Hebrews born to serve, to the pharaoh
Heed
To his every word, live in fear
Faith
Of the unknown one, the deliverer
Wait
Something must be done, four hundred years"

Seamed appropriate.

Edit:
If Tez doesn't make that Skyship thing do a Weatherlight impression with the Paradoxical Outcome invention, I will be very disappointed.

[Lemnear]

Shits Lotus Petals, no real cardadvantage, can not really defend himself, ultimate is a bad version of Agent of Bolas.

I am not even sure it would be playable at 3cc. Did I miss something?

[Zulabnar]

Really?
this is the bad tezzeret anyone is scared of?


is a shitty card with no use, you spend 4 mana to have 1 mana?

lol

[Poron]

a 4 mana planeswalkers must be able to win you the match

Overall this would be playable only in a deck where there are already 4 Tezzeret and so many other great planeswalkers (Jace, Daretti, Dack Fayden even Liliana in case)

[Di]

Clearly their goal was to neuter Planeswalkers as much as possible, because I can't fathom how they made this Tezz and Ajani to be this bad. Neither are even Standard playable.

Let's keep hope Bolas comes to save the day, this is ridiculous.

[H]

Clearly their goal was to neuter Planeswalkers as much as possible, because I can't fathom how they made this Tezz and Ajani to be this bad. Neither are even Standard playable.

Let's keep hope Bolas comes to save the day, this is ridiculous.

But it's not like they are nerfing them across the board. I think they are feeling the crunch of "having" to print more and more 'Walkers. So, the gap between ones designed to matter (i.e. are pushed), like Chandra, Torch of Defiance and ones designed to be limited fodder/bulk Mythics like Dovin Baan appears to be getting wider.

This Tezz is definitely bulk/Limited trash. Ajani might be Standard playable because it seems the current environment is just about landing bombs, regardless of CMC...

[Lemnear]

I hope the JACETICE LEAGUE kills Tezz, because WotC has obviously no idea what to do with him anyways.

...while we are at it, they can just kill Chandra and Jace too. Both have like a dozen iterations and despite of that Chandra never made it beyond being a burn spell with loyalty counters and Jace, despite being a MIND SCULPTOR, never managed to get a MIND CONTROL or MIND SLAVER effect ever

[Vicar in a tutu]

http://i.imgur.com/wrM6eF5.jpg

4 mana is a lot. But this could be cool to use with Chalice of the Void and Winter Orb?

[Dice_Box]

Goes into that Trophy Mage Stompy deck that people are brewing.

[TsumiBand]

I hope the JACETICE LEAGUE kills Tezz, because WotC has obviously no idea what to do with him anyways.

...while we are at it, they can just kill Chandra and Jace too. Both have like a dozen iterations and despite of that Chandra never made it beyond being a burn spell with loyalty counters and Jace, despite being a MIND SCULPTOR, never managed to get a MIND CONTROL or MIND SLAVER effect ever

Bbbbut Jace has Kicker with n00bs!

[rufus]

...

4 mana is a lot. But this could be cool to use with Chalice of the Void and Winter Orb?

Probably not terrible with something like Grinding Station either.

[Crimhead]

Inventor’s Fair was not nothing from the last set. You never know.Not really Affinity playable though.


There is a pretty huge Affinity creature in the set. Won't make it in Legacy, but Gearseeker Serpent made a splash in Pauper Affinity (and let me tell you that deck doesn't incorporate new cards lightly)I'm sure there'll be no shortage of cards which won't make it into Legacy Affinity!

My point is WotC will not want to give so much as a table scrap to Modern Affinity. Anything that makes the cut for Legacy Affinity is almost surely Modern Affinity playable too. This is not true for cards that are pauper playable.

[Barook]

4 mana is a lot. But this could be cool to use with Chalice of the Void and Winter Orb?
Howling Mine is also great with it. Instead of everybody drawing a card, you get two while your opponent gets jackshit.

4 mana is still alot, though. I like the combo with Winter Orb better.

[H]

Howling Mine is also great with it. Instead of everybody drawing a card, you get two while your opponent gets jackshit.

4 mana is still alot, though. I like the combo with Winter Orb better.

Maybe "Stompy" sort of shell, with Mox Diamonds to accelerate it out? Or I guess Chrome Mox? Probably still not worth it when you could be playing real lock pieces instead though.

[Ace/Homebrew]

http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/avatars/thumbnails/128/497/200/283/636177450732366144.png
English translation. He's a Schemer. :rolleyes:

Seems likely 'Etherium Cells' will be a thing. Basically Lotus Petal tokens...

+X/-X feels odd on this card. There is definitely precedent in the form of Warped Physique, but Agony Warp feels more :u::b: to me.

[Richard Cheese]

This is the Tezz that's actually in the set? I think I like the starter deck one better.

[H]

This is the Tezz that's actually in the set? I think I like the starter deck one better.

Yeah, the 4 CMC one is really from the set. The Starter pack one is clearly superior in abilities, but six is one hell of a CMC, let alone as non-Creature spell (looking at you Spell Pierce). I think that just speaks to this Tezzeret the Schemer being clearly garbage. I'd be happy to be wrong, but I think he is worse than Dovin Baan and that card is total garbage.

[HdH_Cthulhu]

Yeah, the 4 CMC one is really from the set. The Starter pack one is clearly superior in abilities, but six is one hell of a CMC, let alone as non-Creature spell (looking at you Spell Pierce). I think that just speaks to this Tezzeret the Schemer being clearly garbage. I'd be happy to be wrong, but I think he is worse than Dovin Baan and that card is total garbage.

Dovian can "win" on an empty board. Tez is just a mana rock.

[Meekrab]

So, his emblem makes artifacts permanently 5/5s. And if you get him to 8 before making it, he poops out a 5/5 every turn. That's something. For like, draft. :rolleyes:

[MaximumC]

So, his emblem makes artifacts permanently 5/5s. And if you get him to 8 before making it, he poops out a 5/5 every turn. That's something. For like, draft. :rolleyes:

Alright, look here, bozos, not every Planeswalker can be Jace the Mindsculptor. You need a few Sarkhan Vols to round out your list.

Anyway, lemme take the Devil's advocate position here. This is the third-worst Tezz, sure, but it's not objectively terrible. His starting loyalty is high. 4 mana for 5 loyalty is a good rate. He does, as you say, poop out Lotus petals. That means he actually ramps you from 4 to 6, in a manner of speaking, since he'll defecate one petal the turn you cast him and then pass another one the following turn. Compare him to those Eldrazi-crapping enchantments, the Green ones, and you can see that this ability is not really all that bad. His second ability is removal, and at a pretty decent rate for a walker. Consider that you can use his removal ability twice as soon as you drop him, and he is still there.

His ultimate is.... well.... I mean, it does start animating your whole board one dude at a time. You were playing heavy artifacts already, obviously, as otherwise his removal ability is no good. It does win the game eventually. It's like a baby version of that Thassa-wannabe Planeswalker's ability. What was her name again? She crapped out 8/8 octopuses each turn. Anyway, its kind of like that.

The lack of card advantage is pretty bad, I grant you. This is a card you'd drop (if ever) in a control deck to combine your ramp and removal slots in a single card.

[Lemnear]

analysis

The question remains why they needed to print a worse version of Agent of Bolas. There is no creative twist at all like resetting his loyalty to the number of artifacts you control so he acts as repeating creature removal rivaling liliana in artifact decks, but the same boring pattern of + ability, - ability and ultimate. Why do all their recent PWs have to be 4-6 mana? Why must all have ultimates? Why cant they print 1-3 cc planeswalkers with synergetic effects? Was Dack & Liliana all they could come up with?

[Richard Cheese]

The question remains why they needed to print a worse version of Agent of Bolas. There is no creative twist at all like resetting his loyalty to the number of artifacts you control so he acts as repeating creature removal rivaling liliana in artifact decks, but the same boring pattern of + ability, - ability and ultimate. Why do all their recent PWs have to be 4-6 mana? Why must all have ultimates? Why cant they print 1-3 cc planeswalkers with synergetic effects? Was Dack & Liliana all they could come up with?

http://magiccards.info/scans/en/ema/215.jpg

Only thing it's missing is the type, and I'd argue that that's a good thing.

[Meekrab]

His ultimate is.... well.... I mean, it does start animating your whole board one dude at a time. You were playing heavy artifacts already, obviously, as otherwise his removal ability is no good. It does win the game eventually. It's like a baby version of that Thassa-wannabe Planeswalker's ability. What was her name again? She crapped out 8/8 octopuses each turn. Anyway, its kind of like that.
Because I'm a pedantic little **** ... the girl that created 8/8 Octopi just dumped out three of them and had them beat up your opponent(s)' creatures. The one that made a swimmy monster every turn made 9/9 Krakens. Which makes no goddamn sense because Krakens / squids have 10 tentacles but whatever, 9/9 is more exotic or something.

[Ace/Homebrew]

Why do all their recent PWs have to be 4-6 mana? Why must all have ultimates? Why cant they print 1-3 cc planeswalkers with synergetic effects? Was Dack & Liliana all they could come up with?

Bad planeswalker is bad, but as C pointed out it's not the worst card ever... just the worst Tezzeret. They can't sustain making each new printing better than the previous iterations. The floor for mythic design is probably "Does this steal every game of limited?" This passes...

And they literally just printed three 3CMC walkers in a row: Nissa, Voice of Zendikar, Liliana, the Last Hope, and Saheeli Rai. Everybody should keep in mind that we'll be lucky if 3 cards see considerable Legacy play from the entire block.

[Lemnear]

I would wish they would print more walkers alongside the Conspiracy one, with clever and unusual mechanics instead of repeating the same patterns of...

+: Character-related minor trait (cardselection, draw, token, etc)
-: some form of self-protection (unless + is already a token)
Ultimate: Some sort of overkill

Its not about powerlevel, but a matter of having no idea what to do with the cardtype. They can't even come up with creative ways of increasing loyalty

[Echelon]

Its not about powerlevel, but a matter of having no idea what to do with the cardtype. They can't even come up with creative ways of increasing loyalty

It's only a matter of time before they come up with accessoires for Planeswalkers. Give Jace some pretty Earrings or a pimp Gold Chain to do X, that sort of crap. But they won't call it Equipment and Equip: X - it's totally different.

Or Auras. Or just spells like PW Berserk, to double your PW's loyalty, but at the end of your turn the PW dies.

[Sooru]

Or Auras. Or just spells like PW Berserk, to double your PW's loyalty, but at the end of your turn the PW dies.

The White Ancestral should be "W Instant - Put three loyalty counters on target planeswalker", not Healing Salve.

[Watersaw]

I would wish they would print more walkers alongside the Conspiracy one, with clever and unusual mechanics instead of repeating the same patterns of...

+: Character-related minor trait (cardselection, draw, token, etc)
-: some form of self-protection (unless + is already a token)
Ultimate: Some sort of overkill

Its not about powerlevel, but a matter of having no idea what to do with the cardtype. They can't even come up with creative ways of increasing loyalty

This. Planeswalkers are incredibly complex from a rules standpoint. They have so much built-in baggage that there really isn't much that can be done with them, even when there are only 2 or 3 a set. The "mythic only" restriction makes it even worse, since each one has to have at least one ability that can theoretically end the game.

[MaximumC]

This. Planeswalkers are incredibly complex from a rules standpoint. They have so much built-in baggage that there really isn't much that can be done with them, even when there are only 2 or 3 a set. The "mythic only" restriction makes it even worse, since each one has to have at least one ability that can theoretically end the game.

Thats a cop out. There's plenty of design space, they just can't mine it too quickly. Consider the following:

Countdown Walker
CC 3 - Starting Loyalty: 10
-1: Target creature gets +1/+1 or -1/-1 until end of turn.
-2: Return target artifact to its owner's hand.
+10: Return all permanents controlled by opponents to their owner's hand. Use this ability only if this Walker has 2 or less loyalty.

Helpful Walker
CC4 - Starting Loyalty: 3
+1: Each player returns a card from his or her graveyard to owner's hand.
-3: Until end of turn, each other Walker you control gains all abilities of this Walker.
-5: Target player draws seven cards. Then, choose one: that player discards his or her hand, or that player returns all cards in his her graveyard to his or her hand.

Bad Walker
CC5 - Starting Loyalty: 5
+1: Choose up to one target creatures. Exile a card from your hand, face up. Deal X damage to the chosen creature, where X is the exiled cards' converted mana cost.
-3: Return a face-up permanent from exile to the battlefield under your control. At the beginning of the next end step, sacrifice that permanent and you lose life equal to its converted mana cost.
-9: Return all face-up permanents from exile to the battlefield under your control. Each opponent loses life equal to the sum of the converted mana costs of these permanents.

And so on. It's not hard to come up with wacky designs, but it is hard to carefully measure out those designs over time so you don't run out of stuff.

[Ace/Homebrew]

...and also to make sure the planeswalkers are balanced with other aspects of the game.

For instance, your countdown walker for 3 mana would be broken with the newly spoiled Heart of Kiran.

[Watersaw]

They print what, 15 new planeswalkers a year at most? There are currently 82 in existence. That is an order of magnitude less than any other card type (excluding defunct Tribal and World Enchantment) If you are wary about mining design space too quickly in a card type that is less than a decade old there is a fundamental problem with that element.

[MaximumC]

They print what, 15 new planeswalkers a year at most? There are currently 82 in existence. That is an order of magnitude less than any other card type (excluding defunct Tribal and World Enchantment) If you are wary about mining design space too quickly in a card type that is less than a decade old there is a fundamental problem with that element.

Well, I'm not going to disagree that Walkers were generally a bad idea for the game. I don't understand why a new type was needed at all from a game standpoint. Though, I know why they were needed from marketing perspective.

[phonics]

New tezz would need to be UB to even have a chance of being played I think. The only way I see this kind of planeswalker being played is with mana rocks, since I think he was over costed by design to account for this, and it is basically a necessity for his - to have any use. But if you are using rocks to accelerate then the + ability seems superfluous, they should have made it sac to add 1 mana or 1 loyalty counter or proliferate or something, it's so anemic. One of the remaining unspoiled mythics must be super busted if the planeswalkers are going to be duds like this.

Make a planeswalker with X starting loyalty based off of something like discarding cards from your hand, exiling from graveyard, milling from library even. Make one that can natively use their abilities at instant speed or at some point during an opponents turn with flash. Make more that want to count down. Make one that has strong abilities but is disadvantageous when left in play. Mythic cards were supposed to be awesome and unique, not generic, 20$ value machine planeswalkers with the same 3 types of abilities that all play the same. You are supposed to be calling in the aid of a super powerful being to help you win, but now these planeswalkers feel like you are calling them in to mow your lawn or pick up groceries.

[MaximumC]

New tezz would need to be UB to even have a chance of being played I think.

No, I think that 2UB is fair, and 1UB would be pushed. UB is silly. Remember, in addition to having marginally useful abilities to begin with, he synergizes with himself pretty hard. The tokens he makes slowly ratchet up the power of his second ability if you don't cash them out, and provide fodder for his ultimate. At UB, you would slip him down early, protect him, and ride him to a grinding victory as his -2 is always good enough to stop the opponent's activity.

At 2UB, he's behind the creature curve in a big way. At UB, he's the centerpiece of an oppressive control deck.

[tescrin]

UB would be insane; because then you'd have 5 mana on turn 3 with no help. In DRS colors you could easily go T2-Tezz+Plow. T3 - Grave Titan

That's pretty insane by comparison to just about any other legacy play; including Nic Fit.

But yeah, UB would be legacy worthy (and likely cause Esper Miracles to eat the format in a day.) UB1 would arguably see play.

But trying to design a Standard format where the UB version sees play would require at least Lightning Bolt, and possibly Decay. Note that it's also (at UB) a T2 5/5 with haste that could be swinging. I think the UB version would have to be at 1 loyalty or something as to block the T2 5/5 and allow White/Green able to attack him with their 1-drop for a kill

[Lemnear]

No, I think that 2UB is fair, and 1UB would be pushed. UB is silly. Remember, in addition to having marginally useful abilities to begin with, he synergizes with himself pretty hard. The tokens he makes slowly ratchet up the power of his second ability if you don't cash them out, and provide fodder for his ultimate. At UB, you would slip him down early, protect him, and ride him to a grinding victory as his -2 is always good enough to stop the opponent's activity.

At 2UB, he's behind the creature curve in a big way. At UB, he's the centerpiece of an oppressive control deck.

The point remains: Why not run Agent of Bolas and start slapping with 5/5s instead of durdling with some weak creature removal traits and Lotus Petals? As Richard Cheese mentioned, DRS (which i also count as a pseudo PW) is 1cc and also producing a LotusPetalEffect mana acceleration, so I think its ridiculous that suddenly a slightly less restrictive way of mana acceleration should cost 4-times as much. To be metagame relevant this Tezz would need to drop SolRings or BlackLotus tokens to work as a mana accelerator himself in his primary function.

Essentially, I want more DRS/Liliana level PWs and less EDH junk

[Dice_Box]

Essentially, I want more DRS/Liliana level PWs and less EDH junkBut that's unlikely. The power level it takes to break into Legacy is often so much higher than Standard can sustain. This means those kinds of walkers will be very rare. Not that I disagree, but we are most likely to get cards that work in narrow strategies than broad sweeping cards like Liliana and Shaman.

[Richard Cheese]

Essentially, I want more DRS/Liliana level PWs and less EDH junk

For reals? I wish they'd never even come up with the card type and would burn all the current ones in a fire.

[Di]

But that's unlikely. The power level it takes to break into Legacy is often so much higher than Standard can sustain. This means those kinds of walkers will be very rare. Not that I disagree, but we are most likely to get cards that work in narrow strategies than broad sweeping cards like Liliana and Shaman.

While I agree it's unlikely to print many more cards of that power level, neither Liliana or DRS were amazing in Standard so it's hard to say how a card will be great in Eternal formats while screwing over Standard. DRS was merely okay without fetch lands enabling it, and Liliana only saw play in a couple decks, but was never an auto 4of or even considered overpowered. Those are only two examples, but take Jace Vryn's Prodigy on the other side which was nuts in Standard yet a very fringe card in Eternal. I think it's likely safe to print cards like this so long as they don't entirely warp formats, but also may require things outside the Standard card pool (like fetch lands with DRS) to take them over the top.

[rufus]

I think tezzeret scissorhands will be a beast in standard. If the +X/-X ability could actually work as a pump effect, he would be a lot more interesting in other formats.

[TsumiBand]

I think tezzeret scissorhands will be a beast in standard. If the +X/-X ability could actually work as a pump effect, he would be a lot more interesting in other formats.

I mean, the obvious chombo is this and Wall of Blood

[Darkenslight]

I think tezzeret scissorhands will be a beast in standard. If the +X/-X ability could actually work as a pump effect, he would be a lot more interesting in other formats.

See, I'm in a little bit of disagreement with the rest fo the board here. Thisd Tezz is, on paper, the worst of the Tezzerets by an order of magnitude.

What is interesting is that ramp effect. I suspect that people are undervaluing the combination of Fixing and Temp-ramp that this Tezz provides. In Eternal, it's unlikely to see play as more than a 1-of, but I'd be surprised if it always felt underwhelming. Tibalt this ain't, but it's not, strictly-speaking, a bad 'walker. I think it will find a niche in all formats, but it will be as an addition, rather than a whole new deck archetype, like Agent of Bolas.

[bruizar]

See, I'm in a little bit of disagreement with the rest fo the board here. Thisd Tezz is, on paper, the worst of the Tezzerets by an order of magnitude.

What is interesting is that ramp effect. I suspect that people are undervaluing the combination of Fixing and Temp-ramp that this Tezz provides. In Eternal, it's unlikely to see play as more than a 1-of, but I'd be surprised if it always felt underwhelming. Tibalt this ain't, but it's not, strictly-speaking, a bad 'walker. I think it will find a niche in all formats, but it will be as an addition, rather than a whole new deck archetype, like Agent of Bolas.

i think this card will be easier to play than AoB and it's often a stronger card too.

[square_two]

Interesting "new" Masterpiece.

https://pp.vk.me/c637831/v637831084/24267/pj5cUT7eF28.jpg

Paradox Engine - cmc 5
Legendary Artifact
Whenever you cast a spell, untap all nonland permanents you control.

Also,

https://pp.vk.me/c637831/v637831084/24275/ZQ_yGxwBH7c.jpg

[Lemnear]

More 12-Post love. Me gusto

[Gheizen64]

Vintage will probably be trying the paradox engine as add 2-3 mana for each spells seems good even at 5.
Can we do something with it too? 5 is a lot though. Grim monolith is probably the best piece to go with it in legacy, and then you still need something to do with the mana.

[Lemnear]

Vintage will probably be trying the paradox engine as add 2-3 mana for each spells seems good even at 5.
Can we do something with it too? 5 is a lot though. Grim monolith is probably the best piece to go with it in legacy, and then you still need something to do with the mana.

I doubt that Paradox Engine is playable at all even in Vintage.

[Barook]

Vintage will probably be trying the paradox engine as add 2-3 mana for each spells seems good even at 5.
Can we do something with it too? 5 is a lot though. Grim monolith is probably the best piece to go with it in legacy, and then you still need something to do with the mana.
Elves could probably shit out an unholy amount of mana with it as well - except they can already do that even without a 5 mana artifact.

[Dice_Box]

Elves could probably shit out an unholy amount of mana with it as well - except they can already do that even without a 5 mana artifact.
This might do something in my Modern Elves deck. Granted I am not looking to win with that, just fuck around.

[Cire]

How disappointing is it gonna be to open up an Ornithopter for your masterpiece?

[Ace/Homebrew]

How disappointing is it gonna be to open up an Ornithopter for your masterpiece?
Ornithopter sees play as a 4-of in a deck that has been at the top of Modern since the format's inception. Card is going to be worth more than many of the other Inventions...

[H]

Ornithopter sees play as a 4-of in a deck that has been at the top of Modern since the format's inception. Card is going to be worth more than many of the other Inventions...

Yeah, it might not be flashy, or playable in a wide variety of decks, but there is going to be real demand for it from people getting as many inventions as they can for Affinity decks. I think it is already preordering higher than a few other ones so far.

[MaximumC]

I doubt that Paradox Engine is playable at all even in Vintage.

No, this ability is totally broken in all formats, even Vintage. It's playable in Vintage more than any other format, actually, since fast mana is kind of our thing. We can power it out with Tezzerator artifact mana, Dark Rituals, Tinker, or Mishra's Workshop. The card absolutely has competition in all of those decks, so it probably will not be a sea change or anything, but it is absolutely playable.

Look at it this way. Once you have this out, every spell you cast is a Dark Ritual. That is totally bonkers broken and nuts. Add to that the fact that it combos with virtually every card ever printed, and you have a busted engine the likes of which we have not seen in ages. This is absolutely Urza's Block 2.0.


Yeah, it might not be flashy, or playable in a wide variety of decks, but there is going to be real demand for it from people getting as many inventions as they can for Affinity decks. I think it is already preordering higher than a few other ones so far.

Indeed, it's practically the PERFECT card for Masterpiece treatment. You can get an Ornithopter for a dime if you want, they were printed basically forever. Price isn't a barrier to PLAY the card. But if you want to pimp it, HERE YOU GO.

This should be the model for ALL Magic cards.

[Lemnear]

No, this ability is totally broken in all formats, even Vintage. It's playable in Vintage more than any other format, actually, since fast mana is kind of our thing. We can power it out with Tezzerator artifact mana, Dark Rituals, Tinker, or Mishra's Workshop. The card absolutely has competition in all of those decks, so it probably will not be a sea change or anything, but it is absolutely playable.

Look at it this way. Once you have this out, every spell you cast is a Dark Ritual. That is totally bonkers broken and nuts. Add to that the fact that it combos with virtually every card ever printed, and you have a busted engine the likes of which we have not seen in ages.

Its a 5cc artifact which untaps your Mana Vault and Moxen in Vintage, but mana is not quite your issue if you are able to cast it in the first place and it does nothing on its own. You could cast Memory Jar or Future Sight and get more value for the same mana or straight up use Minds Desire or Bargain to win. This card is plain worse than Lotus Cobra for acceleration during combo turns and for development

[MaximumC]

Its a 5cc artifact which untaps your Mana Vault and Moxen in Vintage, but mana is not quite your issue if you are able to cast it in the first place and it does nothing on its own. You could cast Memory Jar or Future Sight and get more value for the same mana or straight up use Minds Desire or Bargain to win. This card is plain worse than Lotus Cobra for acceleration during combo turns and for development

What excites me is not the idea that it generates mana on top of 5. What excites me is that it replaces your mana each time you cast a spell. Imagine this best-case scenario:

Mox Sapphire, Mana Vault, Paradox Engine in play. Not even using your lands:
Tap 3U; cast Brainstorm, get some cards.
Tap 3U (5U in pool) cast Preordain, get a card.
Tap 3U (9U in pool) cast Gitaxian probe, get a card.
Tap 3U (12UU in pool) cast whatever. You've got enough mana for anything in your deck.

You get the idea. It just lets you keep dig, dig, digging for the win condition or overwhelming board, replacing your mana as it goes, letting you search and ritual at the same time. Once you get going, this card wins with Time Vault (untaps it), Aetherworks Marvel (charges it up), Blightsteel (or other fatties, just casts them) Wheel effects (all that mana and a new hand? Go home), etc.

[Ace/Homebrew]

I agree with Lemnear on Paradox Engine. I think WotC did a great job making an artifact appear broken while making the CMC high enough and the ability (non-land) restricted enough to ensure little-to-no eternal playability. Time will tell, but it doesn't slide right into an existing deck (at least in Legacy... I don't Vintage).

[Lemnear]

What excites me is not the idea that it generates mana on top of 5. What excites me is that it replaces your mana each time you cast a spell. Imagine this best-case scenario:

Mox Sapphire, Mana Vault, Paradox Engine in play. Not even using your lands:
Tap 3U; cast Brainstorm, get some cards.
Tap 3U (5U in pool) cast Preordain, get a card.
Tap 3U (9U in pool) cast Gitaxian probe, get a card.
Tap 3U (12UU in pool) cast whatever. You've got enough mana for anything in your deck.

You get the idea. It just lets you keep dig, dig, digging for the win condition or overwhelming board, replacing your mana as it goes, letting you search and ritual at the same time. Once you get going, this card wins with Time Vault (untaps it), Aetherworks Marvel (charges it up), Blightsteel (or other fatties, just casts them) Wheel effects (all that mana and a new hand? Go home), etc.

So? As said, it creates a shitton of mana given you have a grip full of spells and a 5cc artifact in play. I am not impressed

[Stan]

First off, it untaps your Time Vault. Second, this thing is bonkers in one land Belcher decks. Third, like people said, this comboes with every spell ever printed. It may not break the format, but it will find a place.

[alderon666]

What excites me is not the idea that it generates mana on top of 5. What excites me is that it replaces your mana each time you cast a spell. Imagine this best-case scenario:

Mox Sapphire, Mana Vault, Paradox Engine in play. Not even using your lands:
Tap 3U; cast Brainstorm, get some cards.
Tap 3U (5U in pool) cast Preordain, get a card.
Tap 3U (9U in pool) cast Gitaxian probe, get a card.
Tap 3U (12UU in pool) cast whatever. You've got enough mana for anything in your deck.

You get the idea. It just lets you keep dig, dig, digging for the win condition or overwhelming board, replacing your mana as it goes, letting you search and ritual at the same time. Once you get going, this card wins with Time Vault (untaps it), Aetherworks Marvel (charges it up), Blightsteel (or other fatties, just casts them) Wheel effects (all that mana and a new hand? Go home), etc.

It doesn't trigger when you cast it.


Seems like win more. But Cloudstone Curio seemed like win more too. And so did Jeskai Ascendency.

[rufus]

What excites me is not the idea that it generates mana on top of 5. What excites me is that it replaces your mana each time you cast a spell. Imagine this best-case scenario:

Mox Sapphire, Mana Vault, Paradox Engine in play. ...


This is legacy... you can start with:

Mox Opal,Grim Monolith, and Paradox Engine

And maybe run an engine with stuff like Intuition , Think Twice and Gifts Ungiven for lethal storm count.

You can probably make something that goldfishes turn 3-ish.

[sco0ter]

You can probably make something that goldfishes turn 3-ish.

Sure:

Turn 1: Ancient Tomb -> Grim Monolith
Turn 2: Paradox Engine, Mox Opal, Mox Diamond or Veinfire Borderpost
Turn 3: another mana rock, Searing Touch with buyback for infinite damage (needs 5 mana from artifacts)

[Dice_Box]

Or Metalworker and skip all the BS?

[Meekrab]

No, this ability is totally broken in all formats, even Vintage. It's playable in Vintage more than any other format, actually, since fast mana is kind of our thing. We can power it out with Tezzerator artifact mana, Dark Rituals, Tinker, or Mishra's Workshop. The card absolutely has competition in all of those decks, so it probably will not be a sea change or anything, but it is absolutely playable.

Look at it this way. Once you have this out, every spell you cast is a Dark Ritual. That is totally bonkers broken and nuts. Add to that the fact that it combos with virtually every card ever printed, and you have a busted engine the likes of which we have not seen in ages. This is absolutely Urza's Block 2.0.



Indeed, it's practically the PERFECT card for Masterpiece treatment. You can get an Ornithopter for a dime if you want, they were printed basically forever. Price isn't a barrier to PLAY the card. But if you want to pimp it, HERE YOU GO.

This should be the model for ALL Magic cards.
If you want to pimp it, Antiquities copies sell for a few bucks.

If you want to Boughetto it, HERE YOU GO.

[aCatNamedBootsy]

Paradox Engine could be a fun card to play alongside Paradoxical Outcome. Cast Outcome, untap and tap your artifact Mana, and then bounce it all to replay for Mana and use it to play what you drew.

[Cire]

Sure:

Turn 1: Ancient Tomb -> Grim Monolith
Turn 2: Paradox Engine, Mox Opal, Mox Diamond or Veinfire Borderpost
Turn 3: another mana rock, Searing Touch with buyback for infinite damage (needs 5 mana from artifacts)

Working off this idea what would be a preliminary deck list?

//Lands

4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Seat of the Synod
4 Wasteland
5 Islands?

//Paradox

4 Paradox Engine

//Mana Rocks

4 Basalt Monolith
4 Grim Monolith
4 Mox Opal
4 Mox Diamond

//Win Conditions
4 Staff of Domination
2 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
1 Emrakul, The Aeons Torn

//Search + Draw
4 Intuition
4 Gitaxian Probe

//Protection
4 Ensnaring Bridge

I am not sure that quite works. . . there isn't enough draw to keep the engine going. . .

[Darkenslight]

I'd be looking at something which has cheap cantrip effects and can play almost any color. And trust me, there are a lot of cheap artifact cantrip effects.

EDIT: this sort of slots into old Sensei-Sensei lists easily. Add in the new mechanic (Convoke for artifacts) and you have a really interesting card on your hands. I can theoretically see a mono-Blue list working, as well as an infinite Scepter list working.

[rufus]

...
I am not sure that quite works. . . there isn't enough draw to keep the engine going. . .

Might be getting into single card discussion territory here, but we're not really competing with other discussion so I don't really care.

I think you want more STD/Brainstorm in that list.

Why are you playing Ensnaring Bridge in a combo list that's looking to finish with a fattie?

More generally, I think you're better off with chainable tutor effects and storm than with raw card draw. Stuff like Gifts Ungiven, Mystical Teachings and Cunning Wish can do a lot of work. Repeal might be good too...

[bruizar]

Why are you playing Ensnaring Bridge in a combo list that's looking to finish with a fattie?


Because it's slower than the fastest combo out there and it gives you time to assemble the combo.

[Darkenslight]

Might be getting into single card discussion territory here, but we're not really competing with other discussion so I don't really care.

I think you want more STD/Brainstorm in that list.

Why are you playing Ensnaring Bridge in a combo list that's looking to finish with a fattie?

More generally, I think you're better off with chainable tutor effects and storm than with raw card draw. Stuff like Gifts Ungiven, Mystical Teachings and Cunning Wish can do a lot of work. Repeal might be good too...

I was thinking of a blue shell with lots of tap abilities and cheap instants. Bonus points for playing maindeck GY hate.

[Serj]

Can always just throw in paradoxical outcome as well since you can tap all your mana rocks, cast outcome, untap all your mana rocks, tap them again for mana, then pick them up and draw cards, then play them out again to start netting even more mana and go for some kind of storm kill as well. Will it be better than ANT or TES? Probably not. Will it look like a knock off version of what you can do in vintage? Kind of. Will it be a cool novelty while comboing off? Definitely. Throw in something equally as cute as Vedelkan Archmage, up the cantrip count, drop a couple of lands, play fetches and seas, and you can even think about adding in FoW.

Also has some playability in High Tide/12 Post builds that run a set of candelabra as a way of getting even more out of your candelabras but it just seems too cute and unnecessary, if not hilarious.

[Darkenslight]

Can always just throw in paradoxical outcome as well since you can tap all your mana rocks, cast outcome, untap all your mana rocks, tap them again for mana, then pick them up and draw cards, then play them out again to start netting even more mana and go for some kind of storm kill as well. Will it be better than ANT or TES? Probably not. Will it look like a knock off version of what you can do in vintage? Kind of. Will it be a cool novelty while comboing off? Definitely. Throw in something equally as cute as Vedelkan Archmage, up the cantrip count, drop a couple of lands, play fetches and seas, and you can even think about adding in FoW.

Also has some playability in High Tide/12 Post builds that run a set of candelabra as a way of getting even more out of your candelabras but it just seems too cute and unnecessary, if not hilarious.

It's actually incredibly strong in Spring Tide decks, as each cast nets you a ton more mana, regardless of whether the spell actually resolves. It greatly increases the resiliency of the deck.

[mrjumbo03]

It's actually incredibly strong in Spring Tide decks, as each cast nets you a ton more mana, regardless of whether the spell actually resolves. It greatly increases the resiliency of the deck.

It only untaps nonland permanents.

[Hopo]

It only untaps nonland permanents.

Luckily the deck plays candelabras.

[Lemnear]

What a great combo. Requiring the crap Legendary Artifact + Candelabra and still do less than a simple TimeSpiral /s

[Sidneyious]

Luckily the deck plays candelabras.
Not all of them, it's recommended but not necessarily.

What a great combo. Requiring the crap Legendary Artifact + Candelabra and still do less than a simple TimeSpiral /s
Agreed

[Serj]

Just remember the cuter the deck the sooner you can go get drinks on Day 1 of a GP.

[Hopo]

What a great combo. Requiring the crap Legendary Artifact + Candelabra and still do less than a simple TimeSpiral /s

Likely not great. Just wanted to point out why it was suggested for spring tide.

[Darkenslight]

New suspected spoiler:

https://i.redd.it/ab2j0fubd87y.jpg

Peacekeeper Colossus :3:
Artifact - Vehicle (R)
:1: :w: : Anoither target Vehicle you control becomes an artifact creature until end of turn.
Crew 4
6/6

[rufus]

...then pick them up and draw cards, then play them out again to start netting even more mana and go for some kind of storm kill as well...

They untap each other as they get cast so it can snowball pretty hard.

[HdH_Cthulhu]

Paradox engine + Recycle

[BenBleiweiss]

http://media.wizards.com/2016/c1lRLirbrl_AER/en_LC5qCFMqVT.png

I think you take out the 4x High Tides so you can get Candelabra end-of-turn!

Wait....

[Dice_Box]

http://media.wizards.com/2016/c1lRLirbrl_AER/en_WgMU1FLUWB.png

That's 3, Assembly-Worker tribal here I come. Make that 4, missed there was one on the last set. And no, I am not playing 7 mana for a 2/2 worker, so that Land doesn't count.

Edit:
The fuck is this?

http://media.wizards.com/2016/c1lRLirbrl_AER/en_zCWzKajA59.png

[Darkenslight]

AQ fair few cards spoiled today, but the most interesting are these:

http://puu.sh/t8JH0/c13bf7f98e.jpg

This is one because it slots fairly neatly into an Affinity shell, and offers decent stats for the effective cost.

http://puu.sh/t8KA1/f62b40a2aa.jpg

This one's interesting because of the interaction between free stuff and cards like Beck//Call.

http://puu.sh/t8KHm/d5258495cf.jpg

This one seems like a legit backup in both Modern Bogles and as a Commander in a Voltron deck.

[sco0ter]

The fuck is this?

http://media.wizards.com/2016/c1lRLirbrl_AER/en_zCWzKajA59.png

Too bad it doesn't have trample. At least for flavor reasons with Phyrexian Dreadnought. But even then probably unplayable in Legacy.

[Fox]

Edit:
The fuck is this?

http://media.wizards.com/2016/c1lRLirbrl_AER/en_zCWzKajA59.png
lol, sweet they made a new Dreadnought...only it doesn't have trample, and Cavern on Dreadnought still only has one target. :tongue:

I do applaud the throwback though, alas this needs 12 power to see a shred of legacy play. As it is I guess the best you can hope for is T1 vehicle, T2 sol land -> Phyrexian Soulgorger -> crew and swing 7, T3 crew in response to culm. upkeep and swing for another 7. So like a terrible Eldrazi Mimic that can't really use Chalice. Mostly though I'm hoping to see Big Red rocking some of those legacy staple Mijae Djinns with this vehicle; that would just be a real nice surprise. :laugh:

[Lemnear]

http://media.wizards.com/2016/c1lRLirbrl_AER/en_LC5qCFMqVT.png

I think you take out the 4x High Tides so you can get Candelabra end-of-turn!

Wait....

Great effect but suuuuuuuuuper safe costed. Bummer

[Dice_Box]

http://i.imgur.com/Ppks4pz.png
Be still my beating heart. My Paradoxical Paladin deck might now actually be a thing.

[maharis]

http://m.imgur.com/EoAkWtn

This is really good




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[LegacyIsAnEternalFormat]

http://m.imgur.com/EoAkWtn

This is really good



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Damn, that's going straight into delver.

[Darkenslight]

http://m.imgur.com/EoAkWtn

This is really good




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Nice combo with Recurring Nightmare and Chromatic Sphere.

[LegacyIsAnEternalFormat]

Actually I take that back that is going into pretty much every black deck in legacy. All you have to do is crack a fetchland and its a 1Cmc Murder

[Gheizen64]

Don't get delve creatures though

[Dice_Box]

Actually I take that back that is going into pretty much every black deck in legacy. All you have to do is crack a fetchland and its a 1Cmc Murder

Oh fuck, I forgot about fetches. Dear God.

[Fox]

Oh fuck, I forgot about fetches. Dear God.
Competes with Abrupt Decay, especially if you're talking about a maindeck slot. Fine card, but Counterbalance exists and unlike Bolt, this one doesn't go upstairs. Also you'd probably still want to run Murderous Cut before this.

[Dice_Box]

Competes with Abrupt Decay, especially if you're talking about a maindeck slot. Fine card, but Counterbalance exists and unlike Bolt, this one doesn't go upstairs. Also you'd probably still want to run Murderous Cut before this.

But, if you don't want to run green, say for Grixis, this thing is strong.

[rufus]

Great effect but suuuuuuuuuper safe costed. Bummer

Improvise isn't as exciting as convoke because lots of the artifacts people like already tap for mana, so exploiting it requires lots of compelling non-mana artifacts.

That said, paying UUU for Panaramonicon in a Semblance Anvil deck that cycles 2-mana artifacts could be quite strong.

...

Any less fixed cost, and you just cast it with X=0 for Lotus Bloom anyway.

[CptHaddock]

But, if you don't want to run green, say for Grixis, this thing is strong.

Yeah, pretty much for any deck that isn't running bolt and wants a disfigure type effect this is a pretty big upgrade. Shardless and BUG delver got a nice shot in the arm with this card.

[maharis]

But, if you don't want to run green, say for Grixis, this thing is strong.

Really the color it displaces is red. Been working on BUG control for a while now and it's just so hard to beat an opposing DRS, especially when backed by Daze. Makes cards like Snapcaster terrible. Waiting till turn 2 for Decay gives them the opening to drop something horrendous like LotV or TNN.

Being able to kill DRS for 1 mana at instant speed with an easy-to-trigger upside is exactly what these kinds of decks need. Also a good card for Esper decks.

This card is good without the revolt clause simply for being able to answer Tarmogoyf for 1 mana (the only way outside heavily conditional cards like Deathmark). But add that in and suddenly you have an answer to Mentor, TKS, etc. I think it's going to make waves for sure. Anything that doesn't let them untap with a DRS, Mom, SFM, etc. for this cheap is worth a look.

[Dice_Box]

So pick up your Foils early? Poor Disfigure...

[Fox]

Being able to kill DRS for 1 mana at instant speed with an easy-to-trigger upside is exactly what these kinds of decks need. Also a good card for Esper decks.
I mean Esper deck probably has green for Decay, and they also have StP; are you dropping discard for this?

[Barook]

I wouldn't be suprised if Fatal Push turned out to be black's counterpart of StP and Bolt as far as 1-mana staple removal goes. Especially with fetchlands, it can kill pretty much everything.

Sure, it can't kill a few things like Delve creatures, but neither can Bolt. Being able to kill a Goyf right of the bat is pretty relevant.

[BenBleiweiss]

https://i.redd.it/3sf3mqxpec7y.jpg

Stomp Stomp Stomping along....

[rufus]

...

Stomp Stomp Stomping along....

I don't know what the conversion rate from energy to mana is, but even 3/4 for 1G is hardly playable these days.

[Fox]

Now that Elephant is gas. Worse than Goyf, and won't see play...but man, it's close. Much, much more relevant in limited where you "show" in a 3/4, crew on stack, and energy value game +/- Decoction Module, Fabrication Module, and Animation Module trifecta.

As far as Fatal Push goes, if you were running Disfigure main, this is an upgrade. Debatable as to whether or not it can push out Murderous Cut, as Fatal push also kinda requires that you're running Decay. StP is better, and Bolt going upstairs or at JTMS doesn't kill hands - definitely lots of added stress on your hand correcting Brainstorms with Fatal Push weighed vs kills Goyf. Nice flexibility though (strengths vs weaknesses), and better card design than 'play this' which was seen with TKS especially.

As an aside, if you have 2 energy...can you choose not to pay?

[rufus]

...

As an aside, if you have 2 energy...can you choose not to pay?

Nope, not optional. Would be a much more interesting card if you could use it to convert mana to energy directly (edit: or something silly like Aluren for infinite energy).

[square_two]

Nope, not optional. Would be a much more interesting card if you could use it to convert mana to energy directly (edit: or something silly like Aluren for infinite energy).

I can't think of anything printed yet that you can spend 1 or 2 energy to activate at will. There are the "Thriving" creatures but they have to attack and it's only once a turn. Longtusk Cub could get big I guess.

[Barook]

I don't know what the conversion rate from energy to mana is, but even 3/4 for 1G is hardly playable these days.
Well, we got a 4/3 for :1::g: instead.

http://mythicspoiler.com/aer/cards/greenwheelliberator.jpg

[Fox]

Well, we got a 4/3 for :1::g: instead.

http://mythicspoiler.com/aer/cards/greenwheelliberator.jpg
Alara's Battalion 2.0; this time speculating will pay dividends. :cool:
Reasonable budget Goyf, but only marginally better than say Woodlurker Mimic.

[rufus]

A 4/3 that can easily hit the table on turn 1 is no joke.

I'm wondering whether there's good value to be had from "Sram's Expertise" combined with the usual suspend suspects.

Also I wonder if there's an aura deck..

4 Sram, Senior Edificer
4 Kor Spiritdancer

and then curses and Threads of Disloyalty or whatever.

[rufus]

Reasonable budget Goyf, but only marginally better than say Woodlurker Mimic.

IMO liberator is closer to the goyf than the mimic. Just turn 2 fetchland -> liberator seems eminently solid.

[Fox]

IMO liberator is closer to the goyf than the mimic. Just turn 2 fetchland -> liberator seems eminently solid.
The card is fine, lacking trample makes it worse than goyf most everywhere except actual monetary cost. It works through yard hate and importantly is picked up by Cavern on Elf (DRS).

It's fairly important to mention that it has a very exploitable trigger window (unlike Fabricate, for those playing limited) of being an x/1 and also plays straight into DnT's Flickerwisp (potentially, i.e. Vial after end step...or if a Jitte has counters waiting). The x/1 window is less likely to be exploited by NAP trigger resolving first (something unplayable like Aether Flash, but is definitely dies to say Engineered Plague naming elves or warriors, also Elesh Norn). One must also keep in mind that if you generate this trigger - and the opponent can force you to - you simply will never have uninterrupted priority between this guy (as a potential 4/3) and flashing back Cabal Therapy.

[H]

So pick up your Foils early? Poor Disfigure...

Anyone could have guessed this day would come. Too bad shit card's art is a shit version of Diabolic Edict's. Foils are still going to be sky high right off the bat though.