The Natural Order of Trest (BUG Natural Order) [Archive]

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limbo

10-03-2016, 01:38 PM

I have loved Natural Order decks for a long time. They all suffer from the problem of how to protect their fragile combo and how to regain card disadvantage inherent in casting Natural Order (and Force of Will). The legends of Trest help to address these problems, and play well with NO, GSZ, and FoW. This is the deck I am starting with.

Creature (13)
1x Birds of Paradise
4x Deathrite Shaman
1x Edric, Spymaster of Trest
3x Leovold, Emissary of Trest
1x Noble Hierarch
1x Progenitus
1x Tarmogoyf
1x Vendilion Clique

Instant (15)
3x Abrupt Decay
4x Brainstorm
4x Daze
4x Force of Will

Enchantment (1)
1x Sylvan Library

Sorcery (12)
3x Green Sun's Zenith
4x Natural Order
2x Ponder
3x Thoughtseize

Planeswalker (1)
1x Jace, the Mind Sculptor

Land (19)
2x Bayou
1x Dryad Arbor
1x Forest
4x Misty Rainforest
2x Polluted Delta
3x Tropical Island
2x Underground Sea
4x Verdant Catacombs

Sideboard (15)
1x Abrupt Decay
2x Disfigure
2x Engineered Plague
2x Flusterstorm
1x Kitchen Finks
2x Scavenging Ooze
2x Surgical Extraction
2x Null Rod
1x Reclamation Sage

Main deck has 1 too many cards currently. The sideboard is also a work in progress. The main deck Tarmogoyf is really intended as a road block, or occasional cheap beater. That is my most likely cut to get to 60 but I am open to suggestions.

I like the mana base, # of dorks, and # of ways to get a naturally draw Progenitus back into the deck. Blue card and green creature counts are both acceptable, plus eight fetches into arbor is solid.

Alternatively the deck could be built without the GSZ package, going towards baleful strix, more ponders and cliques. This probably improves the delver matchup, but would require a dramatically different sideboard, and alteration of the acceleration and protection packages.

Thoughts?

Poron

10-03-2016, 01:59 PM

I really like it. if you could find spot for 4 Delver, with Shaman that would be already a great plan-b winning condition.

Also 1x Gurmag Angler to make a use of the graveyard would be fine. Imho it's better than Tarmogoyf. It's not tutorable though

Also Vendilion is good but also Therapy + Probe would be

KobeBryan

10-03-2016, 02:24 PM

square_two

10-03-2016, 03:19 PM

You probably don't need 4 NOs.

I think this deck is missing a plan b of attack. 1 tarmogoyf isn't enough.

Agreed. In my limited time playing RUG NO, having access to essentially 7 copies of Goyf won a lot of games on its own. Opponents visibly frustrated at facing multiple a game.

limbo

10-03-2016, 03:49 PM

You probably don't need 4 NOs.

I think this deck is missing a plan b of attack. 1 tarmogoyf isn't enough.

So your initial read would be that I should have a beat down aspect as the alt-win? Thoughtseize for goyf/GSZ targets or something of that ilk?

I use to play Bant NO, and there I always had Knight as the alt-win plan and GSZ got amazing hate bears. I would love to keep the deck truly 3 color.... Hmmm. Thanks for the input.

Weapon X

10-03-2016, 11:42 PM

Beat down should be the main plan with the option to NO

Qweerios

10-04-2016, 12:36 AM

The main issue with this deck is that GSZ and NO love green creatures and Edric loves evasive creatures. There aren't many good green evasive creatures... Leo is amazing but he is best as a silver bullet, multiple mainboard copies aren't very good.

limbo

10-04-2016, 10:37 AM

This is a build that has more beef in the main, and a bit more grave hate and life gain (oozes) as supplemental disruption (where thoughtseizes had been). Edric is clearly weak in creature matchups, I was thinking of it as a card for control matchups main deck (similar to sword of fire and ice in stoneblade decks).

Creature (16)
4x Deathrite Shaman
1x Edric, Spymaster of Trest
2x Leovold, Emissary of Trest
1x Noble Hierarch
1x Progenitus
2x Scavenging Ooze
3x Tarmogoyf
2x Vendilion Clique

Instant (15)
3x Abrupt Decay
4x Brainstorm
4x Daze
4x Force of Will

Planeswalker (1)
1x Jace, the Mind Sculptor

Sorcery (8)
3x Green Sun's Zenith
3x Natural Order
2x Ponder

Enchantment (1)
1x Sylvan Library

Land (19)
2x Bayou
1x Dryad Arbor
1x Forest
4x Misty Rainforest
2x Polluted Delta
3x Tropical Island
2x Underground Sea
4x Verdant Catacombs

Sideboard (15)
1x Abrupt Decay
2x Disfigure
1x Empyrial Archangel
2x Engineered Plague
2x Flusterstorm
2x Kitchen Finks
2x Null Rod
1x Reclamation Sage
2x Surgical Extraction

-Edit-
Relevant numbers
Blue Count: 21
Green Creatures: 14 (counting arbor, not counting Progenitus)
Fetches that hit Dryad Arbor: 8
Ways to get Progenitus out of hand: 7

Also of note, without thoughtseize, this is quickly becoming simply UG with a light splash, so going back to my preferred Bant colors and splashing Leovold isn't out of the question. I try to get out but that Shard keeps pulling me back in.

Qweerios

10-05-2016, 12:49 AM

It's difficult to justify jumping through hoops for Progenitus when you could just be casting True-Name Nemesis... You can easily turn TNN into Prog with a single Rafiq and you won't even have to sacrifice anything.
If you are absolutely determined to use NO, then I think Thoughtseize is the way to go. You don't really want to Daze in a slow deck that doesn't pack Wasteland and aims at casting big Zeniths and Orders.

Captain Hammer

10-06-2016, 11:06 AM

Awesome list OP. NO 4cc Progenitus is very underrated.

I would play the 9/9 that destroys 3 permanents as well though

moseby

10-06-2016, 12:04 PM

Awesome list OP. NO 4cc Progenitus is very underrated.

I would play the 9/9 that destroys 3 permanents as well though

My only concern is that it dies to plow, and other various removal. I would really like to see another NO target also in the MB

limbo

10-06-2016, 09:47 PM

My only concern is that it dies to plow, and other various removal. I would really like to see another NO target also in the MB

The other poster was talking about Terastodon. You often blow up some of your own permanents to get the extra elephants, so dying to plow isn't a huge issue.

Other options: I don't think this deck puts enough creatures into play to run Craterhoof. When I played NO Bant I used Hornet Queen as a second target since it is castable and 5 deathtouch flyers is great against a lot of decks.

KobeBryan

10-06-2016, 11:28 PM

The other poster was talking about Terastodon. You often blow up some of your own permanents to get the extra elephants, so dying to plow isn't a huge issue.

Other options: I don't think this deck puts enough creatures into play to run Craterhoof. When I played NO Bant I used Hornet Queen as a second target since it is castable and 5 deathtouch flyers is great against a lot of decks.

The real problem here is terminus

Echelon

10-07-2016, 01:51 AM

A new NO deck that aims to fix whatever problems NO decks normally has but fails to see that the deck still has to win in the same way as every other NO deck, effectively changing nothing. Awesome.

The problem w/ NO-decks is how they try to win. To fix that problem, you have to be able to win without NO (at which point you don't need NO anymore). What you end up with now is a horrible NO deck (I mean, Elves! just does it better. I win this turn > I win in a couple of turns) or a worse, slower BUG Tempo deck.

Poron

10-07-2016, 08:06 AM

no well this deck doesn't scoop to comb and with U and B can do its thing against any deck in the format.

The only terrible marchi here would be Eldrazi seen the list

Echelon

10-07-2016, 08:17 AM

no well this deck doesn't scoop to comb and with U and B can do its thing against any deck in the format.

Yes, except it probably does it a full turn slower than anything it tries to compete with. It's nice that the deck has some counters, but I can't see a Storm deck caring about that (let alone a 3 mana pseudo-hatebear that does not stop their combo).

It's a worse NO deck than Elves!
It's a worse tempo deck than BUG Delver.
It's a worse prison deck than D&T.
And Edric is just stupid in a deck that runs about as many creatures as every other deck out there and less than the decks where you'd probably need it most (making it useless).

But hey, don't let me piss on your parade. Good luck to you and I'll stand corrected when you manage to reach the DtB section.

Captain Hammer

10-07-2016, 10:18 AM

Yes, except it probably does it a full turn slower than anything it tries to compete with. It's nice that the deck has some counters, but I can't see a Storm deck caring about that (let alone a 3 mana pseudo-hatebear that does not stop their combo).

It's a worse NO deck than Elves!
It's a worse tempo deck than BUG Delver.
It's a worse prison deck than D&T.
And Edric is just stupid in a deck that runs about as many creatures as every other deck out there and less than the decks where you'd probably need it most (making it useless).

But hey, don't let me piss on your parade. Good luck to you and I'll stand corrected when you manage to reach the DtB section.

What a pissy troll fest.

If you don't have anything worthwhile to contribute to this thread, why bother posting in it?

Your post also makes it abundantly clear that you have no idea what the hell is the whole point of the developmental section. So go netdeck something instead since that's clearly your inclination.

Echelon

10-07-2016, 10:37 AM

Pointing out that a bad idea is a bad idea is not worthwhile. Noted.

To quote the Lego movie - Everything is awesome! Is that better? Worth your while?

I'm curious to see what that attitude produces.

KobeBryan

10-07-2016, 12:08 PM

What a pissy troll fest.

If you don't have anything worthwhile to contribute to this thread, why bother posting in it?

Your post also makes it abundantly clear that you have no idea what the hell is the whole point of the developmental section. So go netdeck something instead since that's clearly your inclination.

Hes right...this deck does nothing special that another deck cant do better. Its that old bant deck problem being a jack of all trades. 50/50 match up with some really bad match ups but nothing that guarantees you a win

Echelon

10-07-2016, 01:50 PM

Hes right...this deck does nothing special that another deck cant do better. Its that old bant deck problem being a jack of all trades. 50/50 match up with some really bad match ups but nothing that guarantees you a win

Yeah, well, you can probably go piss off to netdecking too (I lol'd, by the way), you're not helping the deck in any form or way either. This thread is better off wasting a lot of time and effort only to come up short in the end. How dare you try to speed that process along so people can spend their precious time on useful things rather than this magical chistmasland, you silly bastard, you Jon Snow of The Source?

Oh wait, I'm doing it again.

Excuse me. This deck is a brilliant marvel of deckdesign and absolutely solves any flaw any previous iteration had. Sparkles, glitters and rainbows. Criticism and reality checks are bad. There, the deck is helped. Expect it in a T8 near you soon!

@Captain Hammer: Let me share something with you. Maybe it'll help you understand where I'm coming from and perhaps even teach you something in the process. A couple of years ago I dabbled with a rogue NO list of my own. Right here on The Source. Turned out it was horrible. And that's a fine conclusion to come to. You know who the first person was that suggested that the deck should be killed? Me. Without any bitching, no hard feelings whatsoever. It just was the inevitable outcome of the list so I decided to pull the plug as soon as I realised that. It's what had to be done, I was perfectly OK with that. For reference, here's a link to the thread:
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?28629-Deck-Natural-Order-Rock&highlight=

The point I'm trying to make is this: It's fine to want to brew but for fuck sake, be realistic and don't try to turn it into something it isn't. Magical Christmaslanding doesn't make a deck viable. To brew a contender you have to be brutally honest and critical. Accept that you can come to a conclusion you rather wouldn't come to, but never settle for anything less than the best. Debate. Be critical. Try to pick every fucking nit you can. Identify and troubleshoot every possible flaw, consider every possible angle. How do you think the current DtBs came to be? It sure as shit wasn't through some casual la-di-da approach.

Captain Hammer

10-07-2016, 03:33 PM

Hes right...this deck does nothing special that another deck cant do better. Its that old bant deck problem being a jack of all trades. 50/50 match up with some really bad match ups but nothing that guarantees you a win

No he's not right and that's an awful comparison because this deck isn't trying to be any of the decks he's comparing it to. The list in the OP is very clearly an Aggro Control deck. So comparing it to decks that it is absolutely nothing like doesn't make a lick of sense.
By his logic.

Food Chain is an awful deck because...

It's a worse/slower combo deck than ANT
It's a worse control deck than Miracles
It's a worse aggro deck than Eldrazi and
It's a worse prison deck than D&T

And by this logic Food Chain shouldn't exist and shouldn't be top 8ing any tournaments.

There is no point in comparing decks that are absolutely nothing like one another and saying that one is better than the other. That's not making a relevant point. That's just gibberish. Most of the decks he's claiming are clearly superior to the list in the OP don't even play Force of Will. They don't share the same game plan, same fundamental turn, same anything.

And his comment...

But hey, don't let me piss on your parade. Good luck to you and I'll stand corrected when you manage to reach the DtB section.

was assinine at best.

MaximumC

10-07-2016, 03:54 PM

was assinine at best.

https://s18.postimg.org/wj2i19tmx/wild_x_appears.jpg

Echelon

10-08-2016, 01:27 AM

No he's not right and that's an awful comparison because this deck isn't trying to be any of the decks he's comparing it to.

I'm not trying to be a dick but that doesn't mean I can't be one, right? Even if somehow I myself wouldn't see it, I still can be a dick without trying to be.

Take from that what you will.

As for Food Chain - well, there's only 1 Food Chain deck, now is there? The deck is built around it entirely and apparently that card is strong enough to make up for any shortcomings it might have. You'll have to come up with a better example - it's not as if there are no other decks that play NO or that no other decks do BUG midrange.

This deck is mostly confused when it comes to its identity and as a result waters down all the things it kinda sorta identifies with to worse versions of each of those. Don't worry, you'll see it eventually.

mistercakes

10-08-2016, 02:56 AM

I'm not trying to be a dick but that doesn't mean I can't be one, right? Even if somehow I myself wouldn't see it, I still can be a dick without trying to be.

Take from that what you will.

As for Food Chain - well, there's only 1 Food Chain deck, now is there? The deck is built around it entirely and apparently that card is strong enough to make up for any shortcomings it might have. You'll have to come up with a better example - it's not as if there are no other decks that play NO or that no other decks do BUG midrange.

This deck is mostly confused when it comes to its identity and as a result waters down all the things it kinda sorta identifies with to worse versions of each of those. Don't worry, you'll see it eventually.

Bug opposition has done alright, but point taken.

Poron

10-08-2016, 04:54 PM

ok ok, whatever.

The idea is to go Sultai for a deck that gains tempo and then capitalize through Natural Order.

Ok! How does this deck can be better than Elves?
Actually gaining tempo.
Why not trying a deck that plays 3 great color for tempo then EOT into Dryad and play a Progenitus backed by Stifle, Thuoghtseize and many counters?

Let's try a list that makes this possible.
GSZ is out because it would require too much mana to be useful and we only really need a green creature + protection to make it there.

Leovold, Deathrite and Delver are our most needed plan B

4 Wasteland
1 Dryad Arbor
14 other lands
4 Stifle
2 Thoughtseize
2 Abrupt Decay
4 Force of Will
2 Spell Pierce
3 Daze
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Delver of Secrets
3 Leovold
4 Natural Order
1 Progenitus

SB
1 Terastodon
1 Ruric Thar
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Krosan Grip

Echelon

10-09-2016, 12:15 AM

So effectively you have 14 lands you want to use for mana (Wasteland is a spell, not a land and the same goes for Arbor) and you want to cast a 4 CMC card with some lightning rod manadorks as only extra mana-generators (which can be Bolted when you try to tap them for mana, by the way)..?

Just let that one sink in for a minute.

KobeBryan

10-09-2016, 12:57 AM

Echelon

10-10-2016, 01:12 AM

Lets also not forget this guy has 5 green creatures to further his plan

Well, that's not completely true. There's 8 green creatures (4 DRS, 1 Arbor, 3 Leovold) and I'm guessing there'll be 8 green fetches so that's 16. Theoretically that should be sufficient to have one to feed to NO whenever you need it. As long as it doesn't get killed.

Poron

10-10-2016, 04:09 AM

Anyway you put it, this deck is capable of

- Sea, Shaman, pass (backed by Daze, Fow)
- Wasteland, Delver, pass (backed by Stifle, Daze, Pierce)
- from here onwards you can disrupt his game, play Thoughtseize, FoW, Leovold and eventually seal everything with a Natural Order.

Seen that Progenitus pitches to FoW I would go 3x Natural Order

Qweerios

10-10-2016, 11:34 AM

I think this deck can be viable. I remember my friend playing a successgul list somewhere after the Mental Misstep ban and the spoils of Delver and Decay. BUG was a fine choice for his strategy as he wanted to play all of his disruption and smaller beats pre-NO and Decay solved most of his problems. He played Shardless Agent over GSZ. Shardless was one of his best NO fodders if not the best. Cliques were very important in his gameplan for cycling Prog/Tera, as an alternate win condition, and to counter Terminus. Think of it as a Shardless BUG deck with a combo finish instead of AV grind. I remember the deck being difficult to play against for my Delver decks and even Nic Fit.

If you want to keep GSZ, I think Eternal Witness is a fine pseudo Snapcaster. You just have to plays cards that really shine with Witness rather than Snap such as non-instand/sorcery cards you want to bring back from your GY. A threat package consisting of Nobles, Goyfs, Cliques and GSZ with a NO package is nothing to laugh at...

Clark Kant

10-10-2016, 11:49 AM

Pernicious Deed and Liliana would be fantastic here. Deed wipes the board. Liliana buys time and also gives you another way to dump extra Progenitus in your hand.

So why not play an Eva Green variant to abuse Natural Order.

4 Wasteland
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Bayou
1 Underground Sea
1 Tropical Island
1 Swamp
1 Island
1 Forest
1 Dryad Arbor

4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Leovold, Emissary of Trest
1 Eternal Witness
1 Progenitus

4 Brainstorm
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Liliana of the Veil
4 Natural Order

3 Thoughtseize
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Pernicious Deed

Asthereal

10-11-2016, 04:40 AM

I've done some work on the NO RUG deck after it got out of favour when Misstep got banned.
You might want to check that thread. Especially this page:
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?21432-Deck-Natural-Order-RUG/page19
On that page we discuss white and black splash as well, but the UG base is more important anyway.

The guys here saying it's a worse tempo deck than BUG and so on aren't wrong.
But they're missing an essential point: we have a 10/10 Proggie for four mana.
That fact alose makes you suddenly able to win otherwise lost games.

My thoughts:
- Edric isn't good in this deck. He needs a different approach to work.
- Leovold looks fine at first glance, but a 3/3 for three mana isn't great.
- You must to choose where you focus on. In the above link you'll find my analysis, and I concluded I wanted to optimize plan B (Goyf beatdown) and plan A (Natural Order), so I tuned my lists to support those ideas best. That lead to something like this:

1 Dryad Arbor
4 Noble Hierarch/Deathrite Shaman
4 Tarmogoyf
3-4 Vendilion Clique
1 Progenitus /13-14

4 Brainstorm
2-4 Ponder
4 Force of Will
3-4 Daze
0-3 Spell Pierce
3 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Natural Order
4 Lightning Bolt/Swords to Plowshares/Abrupt Decay
0-1 Sylvan Library
0-2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
0-2 Fire // Ice (or other removal) /27-29

3-4 Tropical Island
3 Volcanic Island/Tundra/Underground Sea
1 Taiga/Savannah/Bayou
1 Forest
1 Island
4 Misty Rainforest
3 Wooded Foothills/Windswept Heath/Verdant Catacombs
2 Scalding Tarn/Flooded Strand/Polluted Delta /18-19

Plan A: Force, Daze and Clique harrass your opponent while you set up Natural Order.
Plan B: Slam Goyfs and use the support to protect them.
Both plans are well supported and we have enough blue for Force (which is often an issue in NOPRO decks).
I intentionally did NOT use any durdly Zenith toolbox targets. Zenith is mana accell or a Goyf. That's it.
I did, however, usually play one or two sideboard Zenith targets. Stuff like Reclamation Sage or Scooze.

Hope this helps.

Poron

10-11-2016, 06:19 AM

I would rather use Mongoose than Goyf.

Better against Miracle (which is still 30% of the format) and Goyf is not big enough to fight Eldrazi anyway

mistercakes

10-11-2016, 08:36 AM

you could use 3 mongoose and 1 goyf (b/c of gsz) mongoose also protects itself until you have a natural order.

Poron

10-11-2016, 09:09 AM

4 Mongoose . Now I am in love with it.

Occasionally SB Golgari Charm will save your dorks from dying in chump blocks vs Eldrazi

Definitly viable imho.

Shardless Agent, also pitches to both FoW and Natural Order while providing both card advantage and a chump blocker for Eldrazi.

KobeBryan

10-11-2016, 01:13 PM

Poron

10-11-2016, 01:32 PM

against Miracle I would just side out No-Prog and add the full playset of Abrupt Decays

Poron

10-11-2016, 01:42 PM

let's give it another try

4 Shaman
4 Mongoose
1 Noble Hierarch
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Tarmogoyf
1 Dryad Arbor
3 Shardless Agent

3 Natural Order
1 Progenitus

3 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Sylvan Library
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
3 Daze
4 Force of Will
2 Ancestral Vision (you play Shardless, you play Vision. Additionally, it pitches to FoW)
2 Abrupt Decays

18 lands

SB
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Scavenging Ooze
3 Flusterstorm
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Faerie Macabre
4 Thoughtseize/Duress
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Reclamation Sage (more)

oh yeah, a couple of Leovold in the main :rolleyes:

Captain Hammer

10-11-2016, 02:24 PM

Daze without wasteland and stifle is pretty worthless.

I like the rock approach clark posted earlier...

4 Wasteland
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Bayou
1 Underground Sea
1 Tropical Island
1 Swamp
1 Island
1 Forest
1 Dryad Arbor

4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Leovold, Emissary of Trest
1 Eternal Witness
1 Progenitus

4 Brainstorm
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Liliana of the Veil
4 Natural Order

3 Thoughtseize
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Pernicious Deed

But I would probably play 4 Shardless Agent instead of the Leovolds and Eternal Witness and make room for some Ancestral vision.

Poron

10-11-2016, 03:09 PM

So would I.. Leovold is not so great.

Ancestral Vision
Shardless
Decay
Mongoose

are all much better

This is "miracle improved" version of Shardless Sultai with NO combo.
We only lose Strix to them (which is great against Eldrazi), but it's always playable 4x in the SB against both Eldrazi and Lands

Captain Hammer

10-11-2016, 07:12 PM

Mongoose seems weak. Its just a 3/3 and that's only in the mid game.

Liliana and Brainstorm are both great ways to get rid of a Progenitus in your hand so I would want to play 4 of each.

Perhaps...

4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Misty Rainforest
3 Polluted Delta
2 Bayou
2 Underground Sea
2 Swamp
1 Island
1 Forest
1 Tropical Island
1 Dryad Arbor

4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Shardless Agent
1 Progenitus

4 Ancestral Vision
4 Brainstorm
4 FoW or Hymn to Tourach
4 Liliana of the Veil
4 Natural Order

3 Thoughtseize
3 Abrupt Decay

Asthereal

10-12-2016, 07:00 AM

Poron

10-12-2016, 08:50 AM

I like Mongoose too much to play one.

Overall, Miracle is more than 1 deck on 3 we have around after match 3-4 on each big tournament..

Since both Mongoose and Tarmogoyf feed very well on graveyard we might play them 4,3 or 4,2.

Decay and Reclamation Sage for CB.
Deed for all the tokens (Miracle wins only by tokens) and CB

Worst case scenario we can pack a couple of Maestrolm Pulse..
I wouldn't play it, but with Dryad, Shaman, Hierarch and Bayou we might even consider Choke, well.. we just open ourselves to a Terminus.. too fancy I am afraid

Other cards to consider are Gaddock Teeg and Meddling Mage

The only DTB I feel we have a bad matchup imho is Eldrazi.
Maybe bitterblossom might help us? cursedGarruk can be great with its 1/1 deathtouch wolves..

Captain Hammer

10-12-2016, 10:14 AM

Not enough blue cards for Force.

Anyway, we've tried Shardless before in a NO RUG shell.
It deludes your deck, adding a third strategy.
If you like it, by all means try it. I never got it to work though.

If you like Mongoose a lot, and feel you need it, why not add just one or two?
You can Zenith for it as soon as you reach threshold, but won't draw too many before that.

RUG tends to be faster and more aggressive thanks to cards like Lightning Bolt. BUG tends to be slower, more controllish and more disruptive thanks to Abrupt Decay, hymn, Liliana, Deed and Thoughtseize.

I agree with you that NO doesn't make sense in RUG but in BUG it fits like a glove since you can use discard to clear away removal and slow them down with deed so that a 4cc win condition is viable.

Asthereal

10-12-2016, 05:09 PM

RUG tends to be faster and more aggressive thanks to cards like Lightning Bolt. BUG tends to be slower, more controllish and more disruptive thanks to Abrupt Decay, hymn, Liliana, Deed and Thoughtseize.

I agree with you that NO doesn't make sense in RUG but in BUG it fits like a glove since you can use discard to clear away removal and slow them down with deed so that a 4cc win condition is viable.
You didn't understand my post at all.

OP is trying to get Natural Order to work. I took usage of NORPO as a given.
I was trying to explain that in such a deck the Shardless package probably won't work.

Secondly, whatever third colour you splash to a NOPRO deck hardly makes a difference for speed. White has hate bears and StP, red has blasts and Bolt and black has Decay. Which splash you choose, depends on the meta. I'd say Decay is very good right now.

I never ever mentioned BB costing spells, and I'd never suggest them in a NORPO shell. This NOPRO shell is UGx. The third colour is only a small splash. Don't let your list depend on it too much by adding cards that cost two of that colour.

Poron

10-13-2016, 03:15 AM

with 4 Shaman and fetchlands, Liliana is a worthy choice.

Maybe also Jace and Garruk if you go the control route.

We should really decide the strategy before the list.
These colors are so powerful nowadays...

Captain Hammer

10-14-2016, 06:42 PM

Not enough blue cards for Force.

There's 17 blue cards in this build...

4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Shardless Agent
1 Progenitus

4 Ancestral Vision
4 Brainstorm
4 FoW or Hymn to Tourach
4 Liliana of the Veil
4 Natural Order

3 Thoughtseize
3 Abrupt Decay

17 is enough but I agree with you that FoW isn't needed.

IMO 4 Hymn is far more powerful than 4 FoW in this list.

ashent

12-29-2016, 09:57 PM

I played 2 small local events with a force-less version leaning on 3 TS, 3 Hymn, 3 Lili to protect the combo and just playing a mana dork, discard, leovold, liliana, goyf goyf goyf -> natural order plan.

My earlier attempts at BUG NO were based on a Shardless list with a small NO package jammed in, but I quickly dropped the Shardless package due to clunkiness. Playing without Forces felt terrifying during initial testing, but with the deck built like a Rock deck there were not enough blue cards to support Force of Will and I tried to rely on hand disruption and removing problematic permanents with Abrupt Decay rather than Forcing them. I've disagreed with most lists that were posted in the two other Source threads working on this deck, but the basic cards are the same: all the best BUG stuff.

20 Lands

1 Swamp
1 Forest
1 Dryad Arbor
2 Wasteland
4 Polluted Delta
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Bayou
2 Tropical Island
3 Underground Sea

11 Creatures

4 Deathrite Shaman
2 Leovold, Emissary of Trest
4 Tarmogoyf
1 Progenitus

25 Instants/Sorceries

4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Abrupt Decay
4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Thoughtseize
3 Hymn To Tourach
3 Natural Order

4 Planeswalkers

3 Liliana of the Veil
1 Jace, the Mindsculptor

SB:

3 Surgical Extraction
1 Flusterstorm
2 Spell Pierce
2 Dismember
2 Diabolic Edict
2 Toxic Deluge
2 Faerie Macabre
1 Null Rod

The mana base is crap and based on personal card availability as I'm sure the fetches are weighted incorrectly. I could have just taken someone else's mana base, but this list is very reliant on turn 2 BB so I whipped it up this way and it's been ok. If I keep working on it I'm sure it will change. The sideboard has heavy hitters against certain archetypes rather than a lot of catch-all good sideboard options, and the main plan of the deck remains the same after boarding, I just planned to shave cantrips, GSZ's, planeswalkers, or Natural Orders as necessary in whichever matchup for more narrow useful cards. In most sideboarded games it came down to removing 4 mana spells in my deck for counters or removal.

Rd 1 Simon on Miracles

This deck seems hard for Miracles to beat. We play 6 main deck discard spells, 2 Leovolds, and 3 Lilianas, plus Abrupt Decay for Counterbalance. Game 1 I played DRS into turn 2 Leovold and then drained and attacked him until he had to Terminus, then I continued to Green Sun for Leovold/Goyf until he ran out of cards and died. Game 2 on the draw I Hymned him multiple times, made a Jace basically worthless with Leovold, then stuck a Liliana and pressured his hand until he had only a large Entreat as an out. I had kept a Spell Pierce for this eventuality and blew him out. 2-0 Win

Rd 2 Doo-Sik on BR Reanimator

This match is rough without Force/Daze in it like most decks that I play. He quickly showed me what deck he was on by winning the die roll, keeping quickly, and playing Swamp, Dark Ritual, Entomb for Sire of Insanity, Exhume. I conceded before showing him any cards. I brought in the Faerie Macabres, the Surgicals, the Flusterstorm, and the Spell Pierces for the clunkier cards and hoped to just strip his hand, counter his spells, remove his combo pieces, and eventually get there with a Goyf or whatever. I kept a hand with a Thoughtseize and a Surgical and took a peek at his hand. I unfortunately saw 0 combo pieces in it, so I couldn't immediately use the Surgical. I Thoughtseized away a Sneak Attack and then had to deal with the rest of his hand of discard. We played draw-go for a while, me having two Surgicals over the course of the game on subpar targets like Bloodmoon and Sneak Attack to use them before he could make me discard them, then he top decked better than I did and found Entomb -> Reanimate. 0-2 Loss

Rd 3 Sang-eun on Burn

I mulled to 6 and lost to Eidolon + POP. Game 2 I kept removal and Hymns, found a pair of Goyfs, ticked up a Liliana repeatedly and killed him with 2 6/7's. Game 3 he mulled into a weak 6, tried to lock me out with an Ensnaring Bridge, and then died to a Tarmogoyf and a Leovold over 3 combat steps. Burn requires careful fetching, some luck, and Hymns followed quickly by Tarmogoyf. 2-1 Win

Rd 4 Heechan on Merfolk

Game 1 he started on Vial, Lord -> Lord -> True-Name Nemesis and I was too slow to get anything going. Abrupt Decay is good but slow and I have no sweepers until post-board. I also remember playing a Liliana and edicting him knowing full-well he'd Vial something in on 1 and saccing it, but being surprised when it was a bit of an uncommon one, in Tidal Warrior. Game 2 I kept an aggressive Decay + Goyf Goyf hand and forced him to begin chumping early in the game and killed him without anything fancy. Game 3 was really long and grindy as he played multiple Silvergills but no Lords and I was able to take stuff down 1 at a time and drain him with a DRS until it got down to a race within a turn, pivotal point being a double block on a Goyf when I had a blow out of a Dismember ready. 2-1 Win

Rd 5 Chan-uk on Sneak and Show

I recognized this player as a fellow Shardless player, and kept a hand without any hand disruption. I was surprised when he led on Mountain, completely disguising his deck for an additional turn, and then died to a turn 3 Sneak Attack for Emrakul. I brought in the counter magic and the Surgicals from the board, then kept a dream hand of multiple Hymns on the play, leading with Bayou, GSZ for 0 into Dryad Arbor. I curved out into Hymn, Hymn, Lili, Goyf and he conceded without casting anything. Game 3 I mulled to 6 on the draw and kept a hand that didn't do much except Thoughtseize a few times and had a possibility of a turn 4 Natural Order. I kept a Thoughtseize for turn 3 to take a look and see if Progenitus would be good enough, and it seemed like it was so I took a Force out of his hand, left him with lands and Emrakul, and then made a Progenitus. 2-1 Win

This was good enough for 2nd place, tied with first but with a worse game win percentage.

The next day I played my normal 3 round Legacy weekly.

Rd 1 Hyun-Cheol on Miracles

We played back and forth with him keeping me off DRS, Swording my Goyfs, Terminusing my Leovold, etc, and then I found a Liliana and ulted her, getting the way clear to make a Progenitus. I hit him once and then it was recycled back into my deck with a Terminus, but I still had a Liliana and he died shortly after. Game 2 he played a few basics, then a Back To Basics, then a Moat. I was completely locked out except for a Liliana and a DRS + basic Swamp. I eventually found a green fetch to find Forest, which allowed me to chain GSZ's into more and more Deathrite Shamans every time he got rid of one. I ulted the same Liliana twice, the second time leaving him with a pile of 3 perma-tapped duals and a Back to Basics, or a basic, a top, and a Moat. At some point I had found an Abrupt Decay for the Moat, but I was functioning fine on Forest/Swamp/DRS so I eventually just discarded the thing. He kept the Moat and then died to DRS drains, unable to find or even cast an Entreat. 2-0 Win

Rd 2 Hyun-Myung on Miracles

I knew this player was on a newly built dual-less Miracles list, and expected main deck Back to Basics and possibly Rest in Peace. I Hymned him on turn 2, turn 3, and turn 4, but then failed to find blue mana for the entire game and lost to an Entreat while doing nothing. Game 2 I resolved a Liliana, clearing the way for a Jace to resolve, then made a Progenitus which he couldn't believe was happening, and attacked him once before it ate a Terminus. He was already at below 10 life though so whatever it was that I found next killed him quickly. Game 3 he stumbled a bit with an awkward hand and Leovold did his normal work against decks that like to draw cards and he died. 2-1 Win

Rd 3 In-Hyeok on Jund

I agreed to draw with this player as we were both 2-0 even though I felt slightly favored, and then played with him for fun. Turns out I was right to draw as I lost this round. Game 1 he played some irrelevant stuff like Deathrite, Dark Confidant, Goyf, and then died to a turn 4 Progenitus. Game 2 I fetched like an idiot and lost to a turn 2 Bloodmoon. Game 3 we played a typical BUG/Jund match where we traded Decays, Dismembers, Lilis and creatures and eventually ended up sadly passing back and forth to each other with 10 lands in play and no cards in hand. I lost this game on turn 20 to a Bloodbraid Elf, after drawing nothing for 10 turns looking for GSZ, NO, Jace, anything really.

mistercakes

12-30-2016, 01:52 AM

So how useful was the natural order package? Would it be better as 4 other cards?

ashent

12-30-2016, 10:49 PM

So how useful was the natural order package? Would it be better as 4 other cards?

I almost always played the deck as a GSZ beat down deck with a combo finish, but against some decks I rushed for a turn 4 Natural Order as quickly as I could. I found that I could beat Miracles and combo decks without having to pull the trigger on it, but decks without counters I'd just try to combo off. I still think that the NO package should be there to provide a stronger end-game than Shardless or any other BUG Midrange shell out there.. We can grind and grind and grind and then oops a 10/10 unblockable.

mistercakes

12-31-2016, 02:34 AM

I only ask because I read your report and didn't see any mention of natural order in your matches. Did I miss something?

ashent

12-31-2016, 09:25 AM

I just checked back through, there were only 3 NO's for Progenitus that I listed. I didn't see it for most of the 5 rounder, unfortunately - although as a testament to every other card in the deck, Leovold and DRS and the GSZ package were more than enough in some matchups like Miracles. Hitting the Miracles player for 10 felt good the next day though, was faster than DRS.

I'm on Aluren currently so not doing much testing with this list, but wanted to provide another list based on the Force-less version people above had been talking about. The list seems fine, and if I wrote a report on my xmage testing I'd tell about a lot of turn 4 Progenitus concessions, but I didn't draw them this past week.

Adibou1er

02-08-2017, 09:17 AM

Hi guys,

A friend of mine told me about this thread after I won a 16 player tournament in Paris, France, yesterday with a NO BUG list.

First of all, I know a 16 player tournament is not that relevant to evaluate a deck.
I wanted to troll a little the other players (the shop's name is "Troll 2 jeux" which means "troll of games"), with a strong BUG basis, and surprise whoever with a NO at some point.

The list I played is inspired by Reid Duke's one, except that I cut the Jace for the NO package.
Here it is :

8 green fetch
4 wasteland
2 Usea
2 bayou
2 trop
1 forest
1 dryad arbor

4 DRS
4 noble hierarch
2 tarmogoyf
2 leovold
1 TNN
1 gurmag
1 progenitus

1 sylvan library

3 decay
4 daze (4 rather than 3 because wasteland)
3 fow
1 spell pierce (because wasteland too)
2 NO
1 fatal push
4 brainstorm
3 ponder
2 thoughtseize

1 Liliana

The sideboard is quite odd because I was expecting a lot of DnT or white decks.
So without the metagame choices here is the core of my 15 :

1 maelstrom pulse (to get the rid of permanents that decay can't handle)
1 vendilion clique (for combo decks)
2 submerge (vs BUG and Dark Depths decks mainly, that a lot of players like in Paris)
1 surgical
2 faerie macabre
1 cabal therapy
1 pithing needle
2 flusterstorm
1 dread of night

I won't write every step of the tournament because my english won't allow me to, but I faced :

R1: Burn
Win 2-0. A manadeath and a manaful did not allow him to compete.

R2: UB Death Shadow
I dodged his stifles and casted a NO with backup FTW in G1.
In G2, the war was intense to get control of the board. Fatal push was awesome, so was my Liliana.
Win 2-0.

R3: Dark Depths combo
I know the guy, he plays his petdeck very well so I can't do any mistake and every turn counts a lot.
I cast a NO t4 to gain a turn in comparison to my Tarmo's power.
In G2 I submerge his token but he flings it in response. I was at 19 with an active DRS on board, but no Green available.
G3 I land a Vendilion Clique in turn 2 targeting is sylvan scrying. Turn 3 I cast a Goyf that provides me a quick victory.
Win 2-1

R4 : Shardless BUG
We played several games before the tournament and I could see my list was not that good versus his.
G1 shows me that I was right : I die before his denial and hymn to Tourach.
G2 is for me thanks to my opponents. He mulliganes at 6 and keeps a one land hand.
He decides to fetch a swamp. He will never come back, staying in color death during 4 or 5 turns.
I did not do much despite my sylvan library that showed me nothing. In the end I find a NO that I cast FTW.
G3 was nice because I thoughtseized his hand with Strix, Toxic Deluge, Fow and some lands while he already has the control of the board.
I decide to remove fow. A brainstorm shows me 2 submerge and a Gurmag.
I submerge his DRS, cast my gurmarg. He plays his Deluge, I daze. Then I submerge his strix, pulse his other creature and cast a Liliana.

The list made me feel like I was playing on the edge but in the end it was very challenging and surprising enough for my benefit.
If my opponent saw my NO package G1 I sided it out in G2.
Also, I considered wether to keep it or not depending if I was OTD or OTP.

If I had to change it, I would maybe play a GSZ maindeck instead of a Noble Hierarch to fetch any green creature before casting NO or just to find a solution.
Leovold and DRS were awesome all along the tournament which is quite obvious.
I know that the shell is not the one for Liliana but the card is so strong that it offered me two games. I would not cut it.

anwei

04-16-2017, 03:27 PM

I have played around with many NO xUG variants in the past, and think NO may currently be better positioned than it has been in a while, and that BUG is better positioned than it ever has been as a NO combination. These follow from:

- The slow-down of the format with a lower concentration of combo.
- The rise of midrange/grindy fair decks like Czech Pile, with many irrelevant value spells (Strix, SCM, K Command) in the face of Progentius, very few answers to a resolved NO, and comparatively few ways to interact on the stack.
- Leovold, as a FoW+GSZ compatible threat that is on-curve and doesn't necessarily need to close the game quickly.
- Fatal Push, as cheaper, better, on-color removal.

There are downsides:
- Miracles still naturally preys on dork-accelerated archetypes, and can Terminus Progenitus.
- The prevalence of TNN and other non-Pushable threats has lead to a rise in versatile answers that can answer Progenitus (Edict, Council's Judgment), as well as some amount of -1/-1 effects that Arbor/Hierarch/TNN/Clique are weak to.
- Tarmogoyf is not amazing.

I may begin seriously testing/playing this (* slots are a little iffier):

20 Lands
- 1 Dryad Arbor
- 3 Wasteland *
- 0 Basics *
- 16 Duals/Fetches

4 DRS
3 GSZ
1 Goyf
1 Ooze
3 TNN
2 Leovold
3 Natural Order
1 Progenitus
2 JTMS

4 Brainstorm
2 Ponder
3 Push
2 Decay
4 FoW
3 Daze
2 Thoughtseize

Anyone been playing this?

HSCK

04-27-2017, 10:30 AM

I definitely want to try a deck like this going forward as Progenitus is a lot better now.

UGish

09-02-2017, 09:07 PM

Been playing NO BUG locally to good success! Great deck right now. My list is closer to Ried Dukes true-name bug list but with 4 X Natural Order , and no Leovold,
No jace.

Really didn't like the idea of GSZ in the deck , but the idea of mongoose as a tutor target is great!! Surprise!! I find I'm thoughtsiezing for swords or bolt so I can keep a NO sac target a lot after my opponent knows I have NO. I was thinking of adding 2 GSZ, 2 slippery boggles, (blue count , jitte) going down to 2 hierarchs .

UGish

09-23-2017, 09:15 PM

Played around with GSZ and Mongoose locally and never liked it. GSZ is too clunky and never like drawing goose. Will be changing it.

My list was soft to Depths decks. I saw some UB control decks playing FAR // AWAY and thought that would be a good fit. Added back some wastelands. In the board made some changes to swap out the combo and play a BUG pile with SNAPS.

Any input or advice would be welcome thanks!!

NO BUG

4 deathrite
3 hierarch
3 true-name
1 clique
1 progenitus

12

4 force
4 brain
4 ponder
4 natural order
4 thoughtseize
3 abrupt decay
2 fatal push
2 far // away

27

4 verdant catacombs
4 misty
3 polluted
3 u-sea
2 trop
1 bayou
1 forest
1 dryad arbor
2 wasteland

21

2 pithing needle
1 jitte
2 tormods crypt
2 toxic deluge
1 sylvan library
3 snapcaster
2 tasigur
2 counter spell

UGish

10-01-2017, 10:28 PM

4 - 0 Local legacy night again.

Match-ups
Maverick
Game 1 - I kill his Deathrite, he kills my Deathrite, I Force a Stoneforge. I Decay a Knight. Game goes long, trip into NO and fetch for Dryad Arbor. Progenitus, GG
Game 2 - I have NO in opening hand. I remember having Progenitus out facing a tapped Deathrite, Batterskull and token. and an active 4/4 Knight. I attack in with Progenitus and Toxic Deluge for 7 to wipe his board and kill him next turn, GG
4C Control
Game 1 - He turn one Thoughtseize, take True-Name, I Thoughtseize him, Stoneforge, Swords, Force, Ponder lands, I take the Ponder, I have the removal for the Stoneforge. He draws and casts a second Thoughtseize takes a second ponder I drew. He resolves the first threat, Leovold, I EOT Far // Away. Trip into a True-Name, resolves. With the fetches and Thoughtseizes True-Name + Hierarch close the out the game.
Game 2 - I don't see any Daze's and I didn't show the combo game 1, so I keep it in assuming my opponent will side out Forces for better "fair" cards. I start with an ok hand, mana dork, trips, maybe NO. I remember casting Far // Away to get rid of a True-name. Then casting NO with Force back-up which resolves without having to use Force. I was at 4 by this point. Swinging in twice with Progenitus leaves me open to an EOT Snapcaster that can pick up an on board Batterskull for the kill but I still had the Force and Snap doesn’t resolve.
Sneak and Show.
Game 1 – I keep an OK hand with Deathrite and Thoughtseize and some trips. I take a Sneak Attack with Thoughtseize and the game goes long. I bluff having Spell Pierce most of the game but I had nothing and never tripped into a Force or NO. He eventually casts show and tell, I show in Clique he shows Omni. I take Emrakrul. Irrelevant. Ponders into Griselbrand. I scoop.
Game 2 – He mulls to 5, Progenitus gets there.
Game 3 – I have a great hand . Deathrite, Thoughtseize, Force, Counterspell, Brainstorm and 2 lands. Keep. S+S player doesn’t have the nut draw. I’m able to keep double Force in hand. On turn 4 or 5 I’m able to resolve a NO, He tries a Cunning Wish and later a Show and Tell but I have Force when I was tapped out for NO and Counterspell with Force the following turn.
UR Delver.
Game 1 –I have a slow hand with turn 1 Hierarch. He has turn 1 Delver that doesn’t flip. I have a push for his next creature I know it’s a Young Pyro as I Thoughtseized something else. I miss play and fetch for the sneaky Dryad Arbor to kill off his Delver, and Push his Pyro. He burns me a bit and gets a Thunderous Wrath off the top. I’m able to NO but a turn too late. I think if I let the un-flipped delver hit me I can NO a turn earlier for the Win but at the time I didn’t have NO or a clock of any kind.
Game 2- I board out the combo, Against Daze, Pierce, Force and Wasteland, NO is not good. I kill off his guys and beat in with an exalted Tasigur for the WIN.
Game 3 – He keeps a sketchy hand. I play a Deathrite into turn 2 Jitte + Hierarch. Equip and attack in for the win.

I think the deck is good, might add a spell piece or 2 somewhere, Sneak and Show is sketchy.
I would take out the Sylvan Library, deck already loses a lot of life, cut a Snap or/and Clique for 2 pierces sounds good.

UGish

10-08-2017, 05:12 PM

3 – 1 NO BUG, could have been 4 - 0
LANDS
GAME 1 – I should have won this match, bad side boarding and big misplay. On the draw, I have Deathrite, Thoughtseize, Wasteland and some other cards. I play out Deathrite turn 1. He had Exploration turn 1. I feel safe he can’t combo off turn 2, he doesn’t, pass back to me. I Thoughtseize he has the depths combo , I take Crop Rotation, but now I have Wasteland out. Game continues, He draws into a second Thespian stage. I have him dead with Progenitus next turn. Pass the turn. His board is Mox diamond X2, Depths, Thespian Stage X2 with 2 lands up. I’m tapped out excepted for Wasteland and active Deathrite, Far // Away in hand. He activates Stage copying Depths, I see he can activate the second Stage in response to the Wasteland. I Wasteland the stage in response in haste. I should have waited and bounced the Token with the Far I had in hand (!!) In response, he copies the copied Depths and he kills me with the attack.
Game 2 – Frazzled by my misplay, I board wrong. I take out 2 Fatal Push and bring in 2 Pithing Needles. I should have definitely brought in the 2 Tormod’s Crypts and maybe even the Snaps as they are better then some of the other cards I have. Game goes very long, and again I almost have him dead but he grinds me out with Wastelands. I have Deathrites eating all his things. I scoop again still a bit frazzled by my misplays.
I think this match-up is very winnable with cards I have available in the 75. Far // Away has been great in many match-ups and games.

INFECT
GAME 1 I lose the die role, already in trouble. I’ve played as INFECT a lot so I’m confident I can win with my hand. T1 Glistener, I T1 Deathrite. He attacks, I block, he uses an invigorate to save the elf. T2 I Thoughtseize, take a Crop Rotation, see he doesn’t have a Daze and Push the elf. He does have a follow-up up creature and I kill him with Progenitus soon after.
GAME 2 – I bring in Snaps , 1 Needle, Toxic Deluge, Jitte. I lose this game to Inkmoth off the top when I had Thoughtseized away his Blighted Agent and I had Decay in hand… Invigorate + Berserk.
GAME 3- I hold off his attacks, he starts hitting in with Dryad Arbour. I resolve Natural Order for Progenitus, he plays a Blighted Agent. His board is Hierarch, Glistener Elf and the Agent. I need 2 attacks to win, I rip a Toxic Deluge of the top like a sac, wipe his board and win.

CZECH PLIE
GAME 1/2 – We grind each out of cards and both games go long. True-name kills him off in the first game when he has no answer for it. In the second game, he has Pyroblast for True-name but NO for Progenitus gets there and I take it in 2.

BURN
GAME 1 – I kill his creatures and eat them with Deathrite. He gets a bit Mana skrewed and I win.
GAME 2 – Nothing special, I forget to announce an exalted trigger and miss lethal by 1 point.
GAME 3- Kill his stuff, counter the other stuff. Progenitus cleans up.

I think this deck is strong. Very fun to play. If I play tight and sideboard correctly, I think even the LANDS match-up is very winnable.

Megadeus

11-10-2017, 12:41 AM

List I've been toying with playing. Haven't gotten to test yet, but might try it out at a monthly at some point.

NO BUG

Maindeck (61)
1 Birds of Paradise
4 Deathrite Shaman
2 Jace, Vryn's Prodigy
3 Snapcaster Mage
3 Tarmogoyf
1 Ramunap Excavator
2 Vendilion Clique
1 Progenitus
4 Brainstorm
4 Fatal Push
2 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Ponder
2 Spell Pierce
1 Spell Snare
3 Natural Order
4 Force of Will
2 Bayou
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Forest
1 Island
4 Misty Rainforest
2 Polluted Delta
3 Tropical Island
1 Underground Sea
3 Verdant Catacombs
3 Wasteland

Sideboard (15)
3 Faerie Macabre
1 Ruric Thar, the Unbowed
2 Flusterstorm
3 Thoughtseize
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Diabolic Edict
2 Massacre

Shared via TopDecked MTG https://www.topdecked.me/decks/8aecfff5-e4ff-4d98-8c85-2654b3ccc3bb

Megadeus

11-17-2017, 01:26 AM

I'll just use this thread as my personal diary. Went 3-0-1 (ID) to earn a bye for this weekend quarterly with a close to similar list to the one above. Deck felt fine. I still haven't even tried out Leovold. I honestly haven't wanted it yet. Delver seems like a super rough match though. Need to figure out how to make it better, but it's just really rough

UGish

11-19-2017, 08:17 PM

Glad to see someone else is playing NO in BUG.

I stop in to this thread when I can.

I've been playing a list very close to the one I posted earlier weekly. Most people locally know now to look out for Natural Order so it's been a bit harder.
For the delver match, hopefully Game 1, Thoughtseize and kill there stuff and surprise with Progenitus. Game 2, If I've shown the combo, I usually board it out in favor of Snaps , Tasigur , Jitte and more removal. True-name and Deathrite help, just playing more controlling. I think I have a good win rate still with NO BUG.

I tried GSX and never really liked it, most people are bringing in counterspells and NO hate anyway and the tutor package is clunkier for me.

Megadeus

11-19-2017, 10:22 PM

Yeah I cut down to 1 GSZ. NO certainly has been better for me when I played people that didn't know what I was on. Not sure if I'll keep on it or not. Delver is super rough and all the good players in the area are on it so it's actually impossible to win with a deck not favored versus it

UGish

11-25-2017, 11:50 AM

Played it again this week at the weekly. Split in last round from top prizing. Win vs D&T, Czech Pile with Punishing Fire (Punishing Pile??) and Dead Guy. Pretty good match-ups. I feel like with sweepers, snaps and Tasigurs in the board I have %50 or better match-ups.

Delver is tough but with 7 mana dorks and max Abrupt Decay paying around Daze and Pierce, is easier. I've build my Natural Order list more like Reid's GP winning True-Name BUG deck with 3 True-Names and trading the Jaces for the NO. I think it's better vs a ton of Pyroblasts.

qomori

12-11-2017, 08:33 PM

I got a sweet deal on some Visions NOs on Black Friday, so I decided to take NO BUG for a spin at my local legacy this week.

Creature package had no Goyfs, but I went with 3 Nobles and 4 DRS, hoping for hands where I could try to cast either 1 of 2 Leovolds or any of my 3 TNNs on turn 2. I also had single copies of Jace and LotV.

I got stomped by Sneak and Show, but beat three fair decks:

D&T was a super easy match up.

I got my RUG Delver opponent in game 1 by leading with True Name to make him use his force and then jamming the combo the next turn and then boarded in more counter magic and boarded out the combo for game 2.

Eldrazi was a bit tougher than D&T since they can have such explosive starts, but Progenitus is still too good. :P

I've been fooling around with a lot of different BUG shells lately and this one is definitely the most fun. Progenitus seems great in my meta as well, since there's so many fair decks with pretty slow clocks right now.

UGish

12-13-2017, 12:28 AM

qomori

12-14-2017, 12:09 PM

I'm at the airport right now, but I think this is more or less it:

Maindeck
4 Deathrite Shaman
3 Noble Hierarch
2 Leovold, Emissary of Trest
3 True-Name Nemesis
1 Progenitus
1 Liliana of the Veil
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
4 Brainstorm
2 Fatal Push
2 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Ponder
1 Stifle
2 Thoughtseize
3 Daze
4 Natural Order
4 Force of Will
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sylvan Library
1 Bayou
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Forest
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Polluted Delta
2 Tropical Island
3 Underground Sea
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Wasteland

Sideboard
2 Flusterstorm
1 Spell Pierce
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Diabolic Edict
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Murderous Cut
2 Pithing Needle
2 Dread of Night