[SCD] Vial Smasher the Fierce

[tescrin]

I've been thinking that this guy fits very well in the Grixis shell between Angler and Force of Will being natural inclusions. While most of the time you'll just shock your opponent, the ability to turn Force of Will into a Lightning Axe should be GG I imagine.

Card in the link since I don't know how to link cards not in the database:
http://www.magicspoiler.com/mtg-spoiler/vial-smasher-the-fierce/

Is it too christmas land? Why aren't people excited about something that fits into an existing deck, is T2 if you have DRS, and turns Force of Will and Angler into the most brutal spells in the game? Add in the possibility to Fireblast or Pyrokinesis if you want to be all-in and you have a card that requires no build-around since it's already been done for you.

I feel like I'm missing something and that's why no one is excited. Yeah; he can be gibbed the turn he lands without you getting your value; but they have to have their answer in hand in a deck running Probe, Therapy, Force, Daze, and wasteland. It can't be that hard to start shooting massive bolts at your opp's face.. can it?

That said, even just casting flash-dudes on your opp's turn makes this guy pretty nasty. Clique your opp after dropping this guy on their draw step? Free bolt to the face.

I must be missing something.

[Ace/Homebrew]

What do you suggest cutting to fit it in?

[CutthroatCasual]

You could probably cut a Probe?

[tescrin]

I mean, it doesn't *have* to be Grixis Delver. It just seems obvious that it could be a 2-3 of card in Grixis-Something.

Maybe it'd be something like:
4 DRS
4 Pyro
2 Angler
3 VStF
2 Clique

[similar stuff to delver down here]

It could be that you replace the Pyro/Probe/Therapy engine for this guy to blast them over the top; giving a similar utility to the Pyro engine; but from direct damage instead. I'm looking for the problem with the card as to why it wouldn't fit right into some kind of Force of Will + Angler deck; given that those cards are already good and that this guy turn them into game-swinging effects.

Maybe it is something like:
4 Delver
3 DRS
4 Pyro
2 Angler
3 this guy

It's 16 cards, but that's been done in Patriot Delver before; the problem with that deck being that tempo just doesn't make sense there with Plow.

EDIT: I just don't see why someone who turns Force of Will into a win condition isn't on the radar. someone who says "if you untap with Gurmag Angler in hand; you deal 7 damage for 1 mana." The amount of damage is ridiculous; and even a free shock off of casting a YP seems fine. Casting a Kolaghan's Command with this guy out turns it into a 5 damage spell that does something else. Putting it into Burn makes Fireblast a 10 damage spell. Grixis "Counter-Burn" could be a thing maybe. Just spit-balling.


Edit2:
Example List:
-17, [4 blue]-
4 DRS
4 Delver
2 Angler
2 Clique
3 VStF
2 Snapcaster Mage

-27, [18 blue]
4 Ponder
4 Brainstorm
4 Daze
4 Force of Will
2 Dimir Charm (or another blue spell)
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Fireblast
2 Kolaghan's Command

-17- [0 wastelands]
8 Fetchlands
3 Underground Sea
3 Volcanic Island
1 Tropical Island
2 Badlands

It's just a rough sketch; but it has a good amount of Burn, some grindy game potential with the various CA cards, and the ability to just 10-damage your opp in the face T3. And normal good-draws are still brutal fast: Delver, swing for 6 by T3, DRS for 2, Bolt Bolt Blast is 18 damage on T3 in christmas-land; so the base version of the deck's draws have some pretty absurd potential.

[HdH_Cthulhu]

Fireblast for 10 dmg does sound good. Maybe add swiftspear and go more for burn.

[Poron]

Also, in a world of Pyroclasm and -1/-1 effects to have 3 thoughtness is definitly an asset.

With 4 Eidolon it's really beatdown

[tescrin]

I don't know if Eidolon can exist in a world of Eldrazi very well; but I would be happy to be wrong.
I think I'll try out something close to the above list next week if muh dudes come before the locals.
I could see doing swiftspears or guides somewhere.

Maybe I'll start up a deck thread and start playing with it a bunch until I figure out its flaws

[Claymore]

Misdirection for 5 seems pretty strong too, and can protect the Vial smasher from Abrupt Decay.

Bedlam Reveller seems a huge kill spell but I don't know if the deck can support it with all the Delve from Gurmag and arguably Tasigur.

[catmint]

I must be missing something.

If he would turn FoW (and alternative casting cost spells) into a powerful burn spell all the time it would be sick, but it is conditional.
If you play him - then eot the opponent removes him - nothing happens. If the opponent does not remove him and plays something sorcery speed you can use the effect with FoW or something similar. Then in your turn the opponent has again the chance to remove him after you played your first cmc1,2 spell.

With 4 FoW and 2 Angler it seems very conditional in Grixis Delver.
Cutting Probe and playing more creatures is not a good idea :) - you would have to cut some amount of creatures as well (Pyromancer without Probe is much weaker). And the other creatures still seem more powerful/less conditional.

Maybe there is a burn oriented list to build around him. I played a lot with a Grixis Stifle list and in that gameplan this creature has no space at all.

[mistercakes]

he is likely best played in a goblin deck where you can have some faster game plan with casting a goblin after lackey effect putting him in play or using cards like pyrokinesis on their turn. it's not the best card in the world, but i think it can have some nice effects. pyrokinesis does seem good, 6 dmg + a sometimes 1 sided wrath.

[tescrin]

If he would turn FoW (and alternative casting cost spells) into a powerful burn spell all the time it would be sick, but it is conditional.
If you play him - then eot the opponent removes him - nothing happens. If the opponent does not remove him and plays something sorcery speed you can use the effect with FoW or something similar. Then in your turn the opponent has again the chance to remove him after you played your first cmc1,2 spell.


I half agree; but I'll just be trying him once the fraggin' protests quit blocking my ability to do legacy.

Fireblast gives you 9 cards that interact with him on a high level, and it's not like getting a free shock is bad. IMO, replacing Pyro with him is the obvious choice, replacing the pyro-oriented cards with Fireblasts, Pieces and Decays, like BURG. The threat base my initial testing will be is Delver/DRS/VStF/Angler.

You're right that the opponent might kill him EoT on *your* turn; but this is something that offers even less of an attack vector than Confidant, SFM, Mother of Runes, Delver, or similar. When do you cast him then? It would seem that if you're attempting to "combo" with him, or threaten it, you simply try to get your opponent to tap down.

If you're worried about your opponent popping him when you play a 1/2 CMC spell, it's not much different than Pyro; you got value out of your guy. I'm not advocating playing badly to make him work. I'm advocating that you can get value from him when simply playing well. Much like you shouldn't play around Pyro much; you shouldn't treat him as a "I better not force that game ending spell because christmas land may be around the corner."

Also, unlike Pyro; he's not stonewalled by a single Thalia, SFM, etc.. He gets to let you launch damage over the top while you just play the game. Like I mentioned somewhere; he's a different way to accomplish the same thing: Damage from an angle the opponent wasn't ready for; in this case indirect shocks and axes to the face instead of tokens.

Either way, I'll be attempting to validate this with data and see where it takes me. Feel free to join me in the thread

[catmint]

Good points. Curious to see your results.

[rufus]

I tend to think that you really want to cheat the vial smasher into play, and then fire off something proactive on the same turn. The Goblin Lackey/Aether Vial package seems like the go-to option for that. Unfortunately, running non-goblins to exploit alternative costs will dilute the goblin synergies.

On the payoff end, it seems like we should be looking for alternative cost spells that are solid on their own, and that can be cast on the opponent's turn easily. Murderous Cut is IMO one of the more attractive options that hasn't been mentioned yet, but there are other alternative cc things like flashback and evoke that haven't even been discussed.

[DarthVicious]

Mindstab
Rift Bolt
Tombstalker
Gurmag Angler
Pyrokinesis
Massacre
Fireblast

Loads of options. And these are just B/R.

[rufus]

Mindstab
Rift Bolt
Tombstalker
Gurmag Angler
Pyrokinesis
Massacre
Fireblast

Loads of options. And these are just B/R.

You missed some,

Dismember
Shriekmaw
Ingot Chewer


and there's more exotic options:

Blazing Shoal
Thunderous Wrath
Firecat Blitz
Scourge of Nel Toth

[tescrin]

I could definitely see running Shriekmaw in the side; or possibly in place of something. Additional, Ingot Chewer in the side is definitely something to consider given all the chalice going around. I'll have to think on Shriek; since he kills everything but Griselbrand, DRS, and Angler; but read another way; he doesn't kill DRS or Angler; which is a reasonable problem.

The fact that Shriek is *really* good against eldrazi (not taxed, doesn't cost you additional cards for reality smasher) makes it tempting. It's also very difficult for Miracles, giving you ways to kill mentor without Decay.

EDIT: It's also not hit by any popular counters that aren't Daze/Force and I guess Decay missing Angler didn't exactly make that bad.

[mistercakes]

https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/517279#paper

dunno if anyone else has seen this, but it looks fun.

[square_two]

https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/517279#paper

dunno if anyone else has seen this, but it looks fun.

That list makes me think of Bedlam Reveler, which doesn't play well with any of the Delve options, but does play well with Fireblast, Dismember, Rift Bolt...