Elite White and Red Card

[kinda]

I feel like legacy is really missing an elite white and red permanent. I'm not sure what it would look like...but it should be good enough to tempt people away from Drs/tnn/delver/Leo/goyf/Thalia as their threats of choice.

[Dice_Box]

Red has a fairly elite card. Many a Blue deck has splashed for just one red card, Bolt. Then also you have shit like REB. As for shit like Creatures, there is a whole white deck built on powerful permanents and there are red cards like Eidolon that cause hell.

The issue you could say is red doesn't have a card like Snapcaster, well that's a pitty. I guess people will just have to learn how to use Goblin Welder again. He never did anything broken right?

[mistercakes]

Stoneforge mystic is quite good. Blood moon and young Pyromancer are both permanents that are go to cards that are red.

[Teluin]

I think he meant Legacy lacks an elite WR gold card.

[Dice_Box]

Stoneforge mystic is quite good. Blood moon and young Pyromancer are both permanents that are go to cards that are red.
Bloodmoon yes, Pyro is almost universally played in Blue shells. It's about as Blue now as Nimble Mongoose is.

[kinda]

I think he meant Legacy lacks an elite WR gold card.

Yeah I meant this. Young pyro and bolt are splashed for as mentioned. Welder/blood moon are great but force specific deck design. Something pushed like WRR, when "the prototype" enters the battlefield exile target permanent. When prototype leaves the battlefield it does 3 damage to target creature or player, 4/2.

[Megadeus]

Your deck lacks the consistency of 8 cantrips so over a long event you'll lose to your self enough that you won't top 8.

[ironclad8690]

It would need impressive power and toughness/combat ability, be a hatebear, and have pro blue pro black to get anywhere.

[(nameless one)]

goblin legionnaire used to be bomb.

used to be...

[sco0ter]

I feel like legacy is really missing an elite white and red permanent. I'm not sure what it would look like...but it should be good enough to tempt people away from Drs/tnn/delver/Leo/goyf/Thalia as their threats of choice.

I think RW has some playable gold cards (e.g. Nahiri), but people want to play blue to interact with fast combo and for consistency.

Cards like

Ajani Vengeant
Nahiri, the Harbinger
Figure of Destiny
Akiri, Line-Slinger
Veteran Motorist
Depala, Pilot Exemplar
Duergar Hedge-Mage


aren't that bad actually.

But RW's control strategies can't interact with the stack and RW's aggro strategies lose to combo decks as well and are probably worse than other aggro strategies and/or lose to midrange.

[Dice_Box]

Painter makes for a decent R/W control combo hybrid. Was more popular in 2014 than it is now. But it's the lightest of splashes. I think that's mostly true for all R/W decks, almost exclusively one colour with a touch of the other.

[Gheizen64]

White and Red could have things that tutor/draw for equipments or small weenies, and permanents that use cards in exchange for tokens, decent grave removal (i have been arguing in favor of grave removal being in red and it's already in white), good permanent general removal (something like a sorcery shock//disenchant), recurring of artifacts and or enchantment from the grave, powerful RW hatebears and mass destruction spells/sweeper.

Instead it's all about attacking, which ain't that good in legacy. I could see something like:

Godo, retrained 2WR
creature - human soldier
As this ETB, search your library for an equip with cmc 3 or less, reveal it, and put it on the battlefield.
First strike
3/3

Additional tutoring for equipments.

Goblin Training Grounds WR
Enchantment
1, discard a card: put 2 1/1 goblin tokens otb.

Token generator that essentially give you consistency by making every draw a pair of goblins.

A WR recruiter (Royal Recruiter: mix the two recruiters and shave a mana), as another consistency tool.

Cleansing Fire WR
Sorcery
Exile target graveyard, then deal X damage to that graveyard's controller, where X is the number of cards exiled this way.

Grave hate.

The End XWR
Sorcery
Destroy all-non lands permanents with cmc X or less, than each player sacrifices X lands.

Mass removal.

Do R
Sorcery
Deal 2 damage to target creature or player
//Undo 1W
Sorcery
Destroy target artifact or enchantment.

Flip card that can remove T1 DRS.

Ash Priest WR
Creature - Human Priest Warrior
Whenever a card goes in a graveyard from anywhere, exile it unless a player let Ashen Priest deal 1 damage to him or her.
Choose: endure or forget
2/3

A possible playable hatebear on the example of Ash Zealot.

Nahiri and Ajani are good but are essentially semi-control cards in a pair of colors that have an hard time being controllish, at least with the options they have right now. More efficient mass removals (which for some reasons it's apparently more green than white or red? see maelstrom pulse and pernicious deed) and/or taxing/prison cards, or good defensive creatures and the colors would be playable in Legacy again as main colors more than splash. Not that they're terrible right now, they just are good mostly as splashes.

[Phoenix Ignition]

Your deck lacks the consistency of 8 cantrips so over a long event you'll lose to your self enough that you won't top 8.

The trick is you play the cantrips and go UWR. Diversity achieved!

[CptHaddock]

I think the closest thing we've gotten to a good RW card is Nahiri, the Harbinger and she's not turning any heads. I don't even know what a RW hatebear would look like. With the way they have treated red in the last few sets it's probably going to be direct damage.

Something like this:

Playable WR Hatebear :wr::wr::1:

:r: Destroy target artifact, deal 1 damage to target player or creature.

:w: Destroy target enchantment, gain 1 life.

[nedleeds]

What's the problem you are addressing with your W/R card? If it's great and costs XRW it'll just be part of the best Brainstorm / Magic Shell deck. Unless it says sacrifice all Islands you control.

[rufus]

I think the closest thing we've gotten to a good RW card is Nahiri, the Harbinger and she's not turning any heads. I don't even know what a RW hatebear would look like. With the way they have treated red in the last few sets it's probably going to be direct damage.
...

Direct damage doesn't have to be weak, but it leaves very little room between overpowered and useless.

Helix Storm Alchemist
R/W R/W

T: ~ does 1 damage to target creature or player and you gain 1 life.

Whenever a player casts a spell you may untap ~.

0/4

You could combine the protection and redirection:

RW
Wilfire Guardian

Discard a card at random: Select new targets for a spell that targets you or a permanent you control.

2/2

[nedleeds]

rrw - Knight of Variance
Pro White, Pro Black
Human Knight
3/4
ETB all players sacrifice a blue perm
LTB all players sacrifice an Island

"Good luck finding me without Brainstorm!"

[Tylert]

Cleansing Fire WR
Sorcery
Exile target graveyard, then deal X damage to that graveyard's controller, where X is the number of cards exiled this way.


Man. this is a burn staple :) (and probably too good for legacy)

[Darkenslight]

Man. this is a burn staple :) (and probably too good for legacy)

Nope. Now, if it were instant...

For the Elite cards, SFM is arguably the White Elite card, as it's both a Tutor effect in White, and a way to cheat in Equipment.

As for Red, well, Red seems to be paired with another color outside of Burn (often Blue).

I'd kind fo want something that permits copying instants and sorceries, similar to Dualcaster Mage, which is an amusing way to win counter-wars, but isn't really good.

[Octopusman]

I think RW has some playable gold cards (e.g. Nahiri), but people want to play blue to interact with fast combo and for consistency.

Cards like

Ajani Vengeant
Nahiri, the Harbinger
Figure of Destiny
Akiri, Line-Slinger
Veteran Motorist
Depala, Pilot Exemplar
Duergar Hedge-Mage


aren't that bad actually.

But RW's control strategies can't interact with the stack and RW's aggro strategies lose to combo decks as well and are probably worse than other aggro strategies and/or lose to midrange.

Duergar Hedge-Mage is a beating. Love that card. Plateau's best friend.

[crowe_1]

As for Red, well, Red seems to be paired with another color outside of Burn (often Blue).


Funnily enough, there are a lot of mono-red decks in Legacy: Burn, Imperial Painter, Mogg/Dragon Stompy, Goblins and and Big Red. None are tier one though...

[tescrin]

I feel like legacy is really missing an elite white and red permanent. I'm not sure what it would look like...but it should be good enough to tempt people away from Drs/tnn/delver/Leo/goyf/Thalia as their threats of choice.

Biggest issue with your question is that the WR card would have to be *mega* OP. Notice that DRS, TNN, Goyf, Thalia, Pyro, Snap, Bob, and almost every other creature that has mattered in legacy is mono-color with some amount of colorless in it. This allows you to cast it off of wasteland + thing, or cast it from a color screwed position more often.

I think about the only dual colored cards (multicolored non-flex costs) are Abrupt Decay, Izzet Staticaster... KotR? QPM? Detention Sphere?

And all of those are niche roles; they do something nothing else does well. And I mean, that's digging the bottom of the barrel to get D Sphere on there.

___
As to how you'd do it with standard costs, you need a less build-around-me YP, SFM, or Thalia. All three of those demand a lot of deck restrictions that Bob, SCM, Goyf, and DRS don't require. Thalia? Non blue. SFM -> equips + enough mana, YP-> basically delver.

Gurmag is a good example as a recent addition to the legacy roster that doesn't require much of the caster, has a generic role, etc..

For W/R as mono colored dudes a one-sided Thalia would see immense amounts of play. It would be *THE* legacy creature for a time probably. Because Blue decks could run it and Red Decks would be able to combine the First Strike with Bolts to nuke anything that is in the format outside of S&T and Reanimator.

W/R would also see more play if Decay weren't as necessary. They need a white dude who has "destroy target enchantment" as flavor text on a real body at 2 mana, like:

WR{3}
First Strike, Delve
Exile Target Permanent while ~ is on the battlefield.
When ~ Attacks, target creature can't block ~ this turn.
3/1

Not true CA, but has reasonable evasion for big dudes and small dudes, a cost that is doable, deals with CB and fits in with existing strats. Put that next to a Mom and it could make legacy give a damn.