PDA

View Full Version : Another Astral Slide Pile



morgan_coke
03-03-2017, 12:37 PM
So, I'll start off by saying that Eternal Witness Slide is dead. It has been ever since the rule changes took away damage on the stack. Once you lost the ability to obliterate aggro for "free", the deck needed too many cards to be playable against everything, and wasn't fast enough to steal any wins.

So what's changed?

Renegade Rallier got printed. And unlike Eternal Witness, it doesn't have GG in it's casting cost, which eases up the mana requirements of the deck a LOT, it's big enough to be a reasonable threat on it's own, and it doesn't return things to your hand, it returns them to the battlefield, which is a huge difference. The deck also builds differently, because you're not returning things to your hand all the time, and Slide itself is less the focus of the deck since you're not really trying to set up a huge cycling lock. Other cards, like Ash Barrens, were also printed, which do a lot for the deck in general. Other cycling cards, that were previously unplayable, like Lingering Mirage, begin to look slightly interesting when combined with Astral Slide and Renegade Rallier. Much, much more interesting and relevant are Sicken and the various Runes of Protection.

So what does the deck look like? At first stab I'd start with something like this:

3x Jace, Vryn's Prodigy
3x Tarmogoyf
4x Renegade Rallier
3x Thought-Knot Seer

3x Abrupt Decay
3x Life from the Loam
3x Astral Slide

3x Warping Wail
2x Gilded Light
3x Unearth
3x Edge of Autumn

3x Mox Diamond
4x Ash Barrens
4x Wasteland
3x Tranquil Thicket
4x Windswept Heath
2x Forest
2x Plains
1x Swamp
1x Island
2x Savannah
1x Tropical Island

That is an incredibly rough list that needs a LOT of refinement, but I think it's a solid starting point for the plan here. The best card to return with Rallier I can think of is Wasteland, so the deck starts with that. Edge of Autumn and Rallier go together with Slide like peanut butter and chocolate, so they're in. Ash Barrens and Wasteland make playing some Eldrazi cards basically "free" from a manabase perspective, so I threw in Warping Wail and TKS, but those might be misplaced.

The creatures right now are kind of filler to be honest. The main things we're looking for here are cmc 2 or less, great ETB effects, or some kind of self (or other) sacrifice effect.

Also, I cannot gush enough about how great Ash Barrens is. Seriously that card is dumb. One of the big issues with a cycling deck has always been that the best cyclers were usually lands, so you had to decide between playing lands or drawing cards. Barrens solves that, goes for the unbelievable price of 1, doesn't ETB tapped, and fixes your mana. Amazing card.

Crop rotation and maybe KotR should probably be in here too somewhere for free wins via the "mini garden" package of DD, TS, and BB. (Dark Depths+Thespian Stage, and Bojuka Bog, which at instant speed can randomly steal games.)

Feedback, criticism, and ideas are super welcome, this is very early days on development, and I haven't played Legacy in awhile, so I'm sure I'm out of date on some stuff.

rufus
03-03-2017, 02:04 PM
Have you considered Eldrazi Displacer?

morgan_coke
03-03-2017, 02:09 PM
Have you considered Eldrazi Displacer?

I looked at it, but I think that's another deck really, where you'd want Eldrazi Temple, probably Collected Company as well, some other stuff. Might be better, might not. Totally a different deck though I think, since you're abusing flicker effects, not cycling and Slide.

harbingerofthevoid
03-03-2017, 05:06 PM
Seige Rhino maybe over Thought-knot or *shudder* a couple goyfs.

Elpresidente
03-05-2017, 05:08 AM
In terms of value 2 drops, wouldn't something like coiling oracle be ideal

morgan_coke
03-05-2017, 10:56 PM
In terms of value 2 drops, wouldn't something like coiling oracle be ideal

If you wanted a 1 power 2 drop that draws cards, Baleful Strix is a lot better option. One thing I've been looking at is some of the Seal of spells. Removal and Primordium look like the best bets given the colors present, and the cc's, but Fire is very tempting if you went gwr. Angelic Renewal, the various Spellbombs, STE, Aeolipile, Cursecatcher/Judge's Familiar, Kami of False Hope, the Capsule cycle, Ark of Blight, Sinister Concoction, Qasali Pridemage, Ratchet Bomb, Powder Keg, Soul Tithe, Thrull Surgeon, Voidmage Prodigy are all also potentially useful cards you can bring back with Rallier.

EDIT: it's really, really easy with a deck like this to get focused on all the cool things you can do. Really though, the only cool thing you're trying to do is win the game. That's why Tarmogoyf is better than Coiling Oracle. Because 'Goyf wins the game, while Oracle lets you do "more cool stuff that might eventually lead to winning the game". That's also why it was pretty criminal of me to overlook Siege Rhino in my first list.

AndyTron
03-06-2017, 06:01 AM
Have you tried running Containment Priest?

sco0ter
03-06-2017, 10:47 AM
What about Gilded Drake and Wall of Omens/Blossoms? I think Rallier should have some more targets other than Wasteland and Tarmogoyf.

morgan_coke
03-07-2017, 01:05 AM
Containment Priest means you can't Slide in and out your own guys, which is generally more profitable than messing with your opponents.

Gilded Drake is amazing. Completely invalidates creature based strategies (except boggles, I guess). I've tried the Walls before. They're.. not -2. You already have card draw engines, and there are better options, like Drake, to stop creatures.

So the basic plan is to win by denying our opponent resources, namely mana via recurring Wastelands, which we make asymmetric thanks to cards like Life from the Loam and Renegade Rallier. And we want to deny creature based strategies with cards like Astral Slide and Gilded Drake. This plan still leaves us a bit weak in the early game due to many spells not requiring much mana, many decks running a TON of 1cc spells and fetchlands, and some decks, like ANT, which don't really care about our plan to slowly build up inevitability and advantage over time.

I think Judge's Familiar is a good solution here. It's far from the be all end all, but it's a good speed bump, effective even if it's played around, and very easy to cast with it's hybrid cost. Voidmage Prodigy is almost great, but the UU activation cost rules it out I think.

This puts our decklist at something like:

Creatures
3x Judge's Famliar
3x Gilded Drake
3x Tarmogoyf
4x Renegade Rallier
2x Siege Rhino

Enchantments
3x Astral Slide

Instants
3x Miscalculation
2x Gilded Light

Sorceries
3x Unearth
3x Life from the Loam
3x Edge of Autumn

Artifacts
3x Mox Diamond

Lands
4x Wasteland
4x Ash Barrens
3x Secluded Steppe
3x Lonely Sandbar
4x Misty Rainforest
1x Tundra
1x Savannah
1x Underground Sea
1x Plains
1x Forest
1x Island
1x Swamp

Sideboard
3x Surgical Extraction
2x Nihil Spellbomb
1x Gilded Drake
2x Qasali Pridemage (maybe should be Seals of Primordium/Cleansing? These can get Unearthed tho, and still work with Rallier)
3x Meddling Mage
2x Abrupt Decay
2x Rebuild

That's still not what I would call good, but at least at this point there's a plan for dealing with pretty much anything your opponent is doing, and between the 8 weak counters you even have a decent shot at sneaking the occasional game 1 combo win.

sco0ter
03-07-2017, 06:13 AM
Artifacts
3x Mox Diamond

Lands
4x Wasteland
4x Ash Barrens
3x Secluded Steppe
3x Lonely Sandbar
4x Misty Rainforest
1x Tundra
1x Savannah
1x Underground Sea
1x Plains
1x Forest
1x Island
1x Swamp


Does that mana base really work for you? I mean 8 lands which tap for :1:, only 4 fetchlands, but 4 colors!? :cry:

I've tested Ash Barrens last year and wasn't too impressed by it: You don't want to play it because this deck really wants colored mana on the table and second I've found that cycling is better than basicland cycling. Searching for your right colors for :1: usually throws you back a turn. Therefore I'd prefer the Onslaught cycle lands.

I'd concentrate on 3 colors (GWx), add a 4th Mox and consider 1-2 Flagstones of Trokair (for Edge). I also think ~27 lands (~11 cyclers) is optimal.

When designing this deck I'd also look at Aggro Loam, because it should run a similar mana base.
I'd consider Chalice of the Void, Green Sun's Zenith (+ Arbor for ramp into Slide), Knight of the Reliquary.

kombatkiwi
03-07-2017, 10:33 AM
I think this is a really sweet idea and it would be interesting to see what the best list turns out to be.

- I think Flagstones of Trokair is really strong with Edge of Autumn. If you go Forest-Flagstones-Flagstones you can use Revolt from legend-ruling one of the Flagstones to cast Rallier which helps you to get it active on turn 3 (or turn 2 with a mox) which is something I don't think should be underrated especially if you aren't playing too many fetchlands. The other thing Flagstones does is act as a reasonable Ghost Quarter target on your side of the field. I think GQ is something this deck should consider for the potential to lock people that have the ability to play around waste (or to be the 5th waste against Delver). (As a side-note on edge of Autumn I like that it's a perfectly reasonable card to cast, because it curves into your target play of Waste->Rallier on turn 3)

- I think GSZ is potentially a very strong card here with the standard Arbor/Rallier option as well as other powerful Rallier synergies such as Qasali Pridemage or Sylvan Safekeeper

- The fact that Rallier can function as actual ramp with slide I think should be taken into consideration, as it's an angle the strategy hasn't really had before. Alongside GSZ it might be worth considering a big green finisher like a Primeval Titan or a Titania or something like that.

- I think a 4C manabase is probably too greedy (especially if you are going to incorporate flagstones) but with Ash Barrens 3C is probably ok. (4c might be alright but I'm not too familiar with decks that play Diamond). I'm not sure what the best splash would be but I would want to try Black for Tidehollow Sculler as it has a similar slide synergy to Thought-Knot, but interacts earlier and is also rally-able. (Edit: For combo it might be enough to just have a GSZ-able Teeg and then you might not need a splash).

- Cloud of Faeries is interesting, the possibility of Rallier -> Untap 2 lands and make a 1/1 seems pretty good on a card that also cycles.

Edit again: Horizon Canopy is a pretty good GW Rallier/Loam card

Megadeus
03-07-2017, 11:15 AM
Is not having a dude that can regrowth the slide itself in response to decay (They decay Slide, you cycle and blick ewit, trigger eot get back slide) relevant? I love Rallier, but not getting back slide really sucks.

kombatkiwi
03-07-2017, 11:59 AM
Is not having a dude that can regrowth the slide itself in response to decay (They decay Slide, you cycle and blick ewit, trigger eot get back slide) relevant? I love Rallier, but not getting back slide really sucks.

I think I would still play Witness as a GSZ target for this reason but the potential tempo you can gain makes Rallier more potent in a lot of situations.

TravisM
03-18-2017, 12:10 PM
Have you tried chalice's or sanctum prelate in the 75?

Nocioni88
03-27-2017, 08:03 AM
New cycling cards incoming!!


Inviato dal mio iPhone utilizzando Tapatalk