Twinblade

[brenden2000]

Hey all! My name is Brenden McCarley and I am a Legacy enthusiast. I have put up some great results in Legacy with Grixis Delver (SCG Open Top 8 and 3 X-2s at EE etc. etc.) I have been testing out this Jeskai Twinblade list and it has been performing very well. I'd like to get some input and ideas on how to change the list. So far I have been liking it. In my experience this deck has been CRUSHING!! Delver and also boasts a good combo matchup after board.


3 Tundra
4 Scalding Tarn
3 Flooded Strand
1 Mountain
4 Island
1 Plains
3 Volcanic Island

4 Ponder
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Force of Will
4 Brainstorm
2 Counterspell
1 Spell Pierce

3 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Snapcaster Mage
3 Deceiver Exarch
3 Pestermite

1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Batterskull

4 Splinter Twin

Sideboard
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Flusterstorm
2 Rest in Peace
2 Pyroblast
2 Engineered Explosives
2 Grim Lavamancer
1 Pithing Needle
2 Blood Moon

[koten]

The list looks very interesting. I'll definitely sleeve it up to test at weeklies. Initial thought is whether 19 lands is sufficient.

[Gazillah]

Oh sweet! I built something very similar in light of the top ban and not being able to play Miracles anymore. Here's my deck:

Creatures:

2 Snapcaster Mage
4 Stoneforge Mystics
3 Pestermites
2 True-Name Nemsis

Non-Creature Spells:

4 Brainstorm
3 Lightning Bolts
2 Ponder
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Counterspell
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
2 Jace the Mind Sculptor
3 Splinter Twin
1 Batterskull
4 Force of Will

Lands:

1 Arid Mesa
4 Flooded Strand
5 Island
2 Mountains
2 Plains
4 Scalding Tarn
3 Tundra
2 Volcanic Island

Sideboard:

2 Kozilek's Return
2 Vendilion Clique
2 Blood Moon
1 Flusterstorm
2 Pyroblast
2 Council's Judgement
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 Misdirection
1 Nahiri, the lithomancer

My notes on this deck when building and testing it.

- I think 3 Twins are sufficient enough. I might even cut down to two. Unlike modern, we've got the best cantrips. Brainstorm and Ponder. I don't really want to see a Twin in my opening hand.
- Initially used 3 Exarchs but switch to Pestermites instead. Reason is that bolt is not as common in legacy as Modern. Pestermite is a flyer. Can equip better and harass walkers. Flash end step.
- Thinking of adding 1 or 2 Caverns to name 'Rogue' for Pestermite and TNN.
- My bolts are my flex spots. They could be replaced with more counterspell cards (Spell Snare, Pierce, Daze, Misdirection, counterspell)or maybe mainboard blood moons.
- Land base is not perfect, it was my miracles land base.
- Need to practise this deck and understanding which route to go. Sword beat down or Combo and when to switch etc. I like the flexibility.
- Thinking of using Gitax Probe.

I hope there will be a nice discussion in this thread. No hate or bashing such as twin is useless in legacy etc.

[Poron]

it's an all in combo deck that dies to every thinkable counter as well as Pyroblast (or even Bolt.in some list) on the enchanted creature in response to Twin.

If you want not to go all in on the combo, I would suggest you play some very cool ETB creature so that SplinterTwin can be always cool on whatever it is played.

A Vigilance TNN with it would be great for example.
A Dark Confidant with it draws you 1 more card if tapped EOT correctly and so on.

[brenden2000]

it's an all in combo deck that dies to every thinkable counter as well as Pyroblast (or even Bolt.in some list) on the enchanted creature in response to Twin.

If you want not to go all in on the combo, I would suggest you play some very cool ETB creature so that SplinterTwin can be always cool on whatever it is played.

A Vigilance TNN with it would be great for example.
A Dark Confidant with it draws you 1 more card if tapped EOT correctly and so on.

Putting a twin on a Snapcaster seems pretty strong. Also putting a twin on a SFM and getting another equipment is pretty decent. I don't think I'd want to splash a color for BOB in my CMC 3+ deck. Maybe I'm wrong there. I was considering TNN but couldn't find the room. Maybe I will cut a Twin and a Pestermite for 2.

[brenden2000]

The list looks very interesting. I'll definitely sleeve it up to test at weeklies. Initial thought is whether 19 lands is sufficient.

I am definitely considering adding more lands but I am unsure what to cut. Maybe 21 is a good count?

[FGCmtg]

Hi all - I've been messing around with this Stoneforge/Twin shell for a few weeks online and in paper. I went 3-1 at my weekly this evening, and thought I'd share the list I played here.

MB

4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
1 Preordain
4 Force of Will
2 Counterspell
1 Spell Snare
1 Spell Pierce
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Lightning Bolt
2 Deceiver Exarch
3 Pestermite
3 Snapcaster Mage
4 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Batterskull
1 Engineered Explosives
2 Splinter Twin

4 Flooded Strand
4 Scalding Tarn
1 Arid Mesa
3 Tundra
3 Volcanic Island
4 Island
1 Plains
1 Mountain

SB

2 Blood Moon
2 Flusterstorm
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Pyroblast
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Wear // Tear
2 Pyroclasm
2 Vendilion Clique

I played vs Aluren, Dark Bant twice and Grixis Delver, losing to Bant in rd 3. I enjoyed having the combo in the deck but not needing to playing 4 twins is great! The cantrips fix everything. Overall I was happy with the list.

[r00de]

It's cool to see this deck getting some love. I took it apart a while back, but I'll probably come back to it at some point because it is a lot of fun and at least somewhat competitive. I made a post in the main Twin thread (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?29973-Legacy-Twin&p=996130&viewfull=1#post996130) and don't want to repeat myself too much, but I have a couple questions and comments based on this thread.

Number of lands:
I had 22 and it worked well enough that I never felt the need to adjust it. Although I was only running 2 Ponders, and if I made room for the full playset I could see cutting a land. 20 seems pretty low, but if it works that'd be awesome.

Plateau:
I ran one and nobody else is running any, maybe it's not necessary? I didn't have it initially but found myself in situations where I wish I had one to fetch for, so I cut a Tundra for one. So I'm just wondering if anybody else had a specific case against it. If nothing else, I get a kick out of opponents' reactions sometimes, since people aren't used to seeing Plateau. Hearing people ask “what's that?” of a Revised dual amuses me.

Copies of Twin:
I always ran 3. It just seemed like the right number since you ideally want exactly one copy per game and do a lot of cantripping. I think I'd go to 2 before I'd go to 4, but I never really felt the urge to tinker with it either way.

Copies of SFM:
Against an unknown opponent I always liked to see this in my opener game 1, so I played 4. It's also the only non-reactive thing we can do before turn 3 other than cantrip, and 3 turns is a ton in Legacy. I did go down to 3 at one point and regretted it, small sample size though.

TNN:
I feel like at least one copy should be somewhere in the 75 because of the Jitte synergy, even if it is just SB. Although even at its worst it's a blue card for FoW, so I thought the maindeck slot was justifiable.

Clique:
I see nobody else was running this maindeck. I assume that's due to space and/or because we're already overloaded on 3-drops. I do like it for a variety of reasons, though. The most obvious is that it's a usually a good card against combo, and game 1 we don't have a ton of ways to fight combo, usually just 4 FoW and maybe 3 or so Counterspell/Spell Pierce/etc. The other reasons are for helping with our combo; you can see if the coast is clear for the combo or target yourself to cycle extra copies of Twin depending on the situation.

JTMS:
I think you want at least one of these. Rarely am I unhappy to draw one or see it in my opener. It's expensive and slow, but the deck is already designed to get to 4 mana anyway because of its namesake card, and it bails you out of so many situations. The ultimate won be a few games I couldn't have otherwise.

Flex cards:
Bolt:
I ran 4 when I was just splashing white, but cut them all to make room when I went full-on Jeskai. I'm not sure how I feel about it. I love the card in general, but we already have 4 StP for removal and the benefit of going to the face is a little dubious in a deck that gives life with StP and has an infinite combo. More ways to deal with a turn 1 creature would be very nice, though.

Cavern:
Not a fan of this one, although I did think about it at one point. There is some overlap in creature types (Wizard for Snapcaster and Clique, Rogue for Pestermite and TNN, Faerie for Pestermite and Clique), but you have no way to fetch for it and in my build I had too many double colored spells to be worth it (Twin, JTMS, Clique, Counterspell). Also doesn't help the combo itself much since they can still just counter the Twin or kill your creature.

Probe:
Would be awesome but it's impossible to find room for it.

Daze:
I don't like it since we have no mana denial to make it good past the early game, picking up a land is a huge drawback for us most of the time, and it does very little to protect the combo.

Misdirection:
I love the mising potential, but it's too situational I think.

Sideboard notes:
Blood Moon is pretty ubiquitous, but I didn't see anybody running From the Ashes. Could just be a meta decision, but I've found that against decks where I want nonbasic land hate, From the Ashes is just a much more brutal card against the opponent and easier on our own mana. This was the reason I was running two basic Mountains, by the way. Super narrow, but one time I sided it in against a Dragon Stompy deck as a hedge against their Blood Moons. Sadly that situation did not come up.

The only red sweeper I ever ran was Sudden Demise. It's a tricky problem since they all have significant downsides: either being a sorcery, costing 3 (can be a lot, especially against a Thalia), or killing most of our own guys. Probably a meta decision.

Misc notes:
In Modern it was sometimes said that the threat of the combo was more powerful than the combo itself. I think that holds true here in a lot of cases. I love the games where people load up on combo hate and you just shrug and win a fair game. Although even better is when you combo off because they named the wrong creature with Needle or Revoker, which actually happens quite a bit since they have to do it blindly in advance.

On the other end of the spectrum are games where the combo isn't even on your opponent's radar. At FNM it wasn't long before the locals knew what I was up to, but at larger events nobody plays around the Twin combo game 1, especially if you spend the first few turns playing the usual Stoneblade cards. It really catches people off-guard and gets some awesome reactions. Sometimes you hear stuff like “did he just say end of turn Exarch?” from two seats down.

Playing Twin as a value card (Snapcaster, SFM, etc.) sounds appealing but rarely came up for me. I think I did it on Snapcaster once or twice in like 40ish matches, never SFM, and the one time I considered it on TNN due to an odd board stall I ended up topdecking an Exarch and just did that instead, haha.

I think the hardest thing about building this deck is finding room for stuff. So many good cards, so few slots, especially 3-drops.

[FourDogsinaHorseSuit]

Why 3 Pestermite and only 2 Deciever Exarch? The Exarch which doesn't die to bolt is better, right?

[r00de]

Why 3 Pestermite and only 2 Deciever Exarch? The Exarch which doesn't die to bolt is better, right?
They both have pros and cons, so I think it comes down to personal preference. Exarch is better for comboing off because of Bolt. Pestermite is usually better when fighting fair because of the flying and extra power, especially with Jitte. The only fair matchup I can think of where Exarch might have an edge over Pestermite is D&T, since a 1/4 with flash is a good blocker against them.

The meta could affect things too. For example, if -1/-1 effects become more popular, Pestermite gets worse. Likewise if you run Pyroclasm.

Also worth noting is that "only" 26% of Legacy decks run Bolt according to MTGTop8, and both creatures are equally vulnerable to the other major removal spells.

[FourDogsinaHorseSuit]

They both have pros and cons, so I think it comes down to personal preference. Exarch is better for comboing off because of Bolt. Pestermite is usually better when fighting fair because of the flying and extra power, especially with Jitte. The only fair matchup I can think of where Exarch might have an edge over Pestermite is D&T, since a 1/4 with flash is a good blocker against them.

The meta could affect things too. For example, if -1/-1 effects become more popular, Pestermite gets worse. Likewise if you run Pyroclasm.

Also worth noting is that "only" 26% of Legacy decks run Bolt according to MTGTop8, and both creatures are equally vulnerable to the other major removal spells.
Does Jittle for 1 vs 4 change the math?

[r00de]

I don't specifically remember any games where that came up, but it's certainly something to consider. Against opposing Jitte decks it often boils down to who gets their first Jitte hit in anyway, though, regardless of what's carrying it.

[r00de]

So I finally decided to splurge and buy some Legacy staples on MTGO since IRL Legacy tournaments are relatively sparse around here and Vintage Cube put me in the Twinning mood (normally I only MTGO when fun phantom events are up). Not quite all the same cards as in paper but pretty close. Went 4-1 in my first Legacy league:

2-0 Belcher
Turns out FoW and Spell Pierce are good cards against this deck.

2-0 UR Delver
Game 1 I won as a covert Stoneblade deck with Batterskull beatdown.
Game 2 I baited out removal/burn with SFM and played patently for the surprise Twin win.

2-1 Dragon Stompy
Game 1 I had to FoW a t1 Blood Moon which let him resolve a t2 Ensnaring Bridge. Main deck my only way to victory is a JTMS ultimate, but he gets Chandra out before I ever even cast Jace. I guess combing out with Exarch is technically possible if he doesn't foresee the need to empty his hand, but meh, didn't have Exarch, Twin, or any cantrips when Chandra hit.
Game 2 I kept a hand that maybe should be a mull: Plateau, Tundra, Mountain, FoW, SFM, Wear//Tear, E Tutor. Basically loses to t1 Magus, but at least allows for Wearing t1 Chalice or Tearing t1 Blood Moon by floating a white (which he had). Luckily I ripped a blue card to FoW his t2 Blood Moon and eventually grinded out with Batterskull beats.
Game 3 was a grindfest since he had t1 Chalice and I had a lot of 1-drops, but I was able to fetch basics first three turns to make myself Moon-proof and sloooowly win with Batterskull. I was basically praying for him to not draw Bridge (or for me to draw Wear//Tear first), and he didn't. Having Pestermite in hand and an unplayable Tutor in hand was kind of demoralizing, haha.

2-1 UW Control
Game 1 I pretended being a normal Stoneblade deck, then surprise Twin on turn 7 or so when the coast looked clear.
Game 2 I lost to usual good UW cards: Mentor, JTMS, Venser, Clique, Karakas. His deck is sweet, haha.
Game 3 was ultra grindy. Only 2 minutes left on the clock on both sides. He had to blow a bunch of removal on random Pestermites and Cliques early game to not die, slowly beat down with SFM and Exarch towards the end. Super interactive, I had fun.

0-2 Omnishow
Game 1 I didn't have enough disruption and lost without doing much of anything. PROTIP: StP is bad in this matchup, especially in multiples.
Game 2 I used REB to counter an early cantrip, then a couple turns later Snapcaster REB to counter a Cunning Wish at the end of my turn. I'm not sure if I should let this resolve or not as I'm not used to this version of the deck, maybe save the REB for S+T? Then on his turn I tried to Counterspell S+T but he had FoW backup. I put in Pestermite off S+T (with Twin in hand), but he put in Omniscience and that was pretty much it. As fun as it is to cast Pestermite in response to S+T and play Twin for free, it wasn't meant to be this time.

Anyway, I think an important SB card nobody mentioned, and that I hadn't considered earlier, is Enlightened Tutor. It already has some potential targets leftover from the maindeck: Twin (the main appeal) and the equipments. Then the SB has a lot of potential bullets/answers to fetch for:
Blood Moon
Pithing Needle
Rest in Peace
Grafdigger's Cage
Detention Sphere
Ethersworn Canonist
Engineered Explosives

Theoretically could go EOT Pestermite, untap white land, Tutor for Twin if you already have the 4th land and feel the coast is clear and/or have FoW backup.

[movingtonewao]

Hi there I'm from the quellblade thread and I must recommend Dsphere in the sideboard with a Etutor package. It is really good and does everything you need it to do. Most of the time its a 2-for-1 and it seems like people who thoughtseize me and see it love to take it because of how much potential upside it could have.

Another package you could consider is Dack Fayden and a couple of Pyroblasts. Seems like a great foil to jace since you get to filter through your deck when you need, and also a pretty great way to trump another sfm deck.

[r00de]

Yeah Quellblade was what got me thinking about Tutor for this deck. This deck wants to run a lot of those same SB cards anyway, so combining that with the ability to tutor up the deck's namesake card made Tutor seem like a natural fit. It's nice that you can shave a Twin post board and still essentially have the same number of copies.

I like D Sphere a lot, too. A nice catch-all in fair matchups that is also good in some combo matchups... e.g., often a free pseudo-counter against Sneak and Show, and I really like it vs. Storm since it can clean up goblin tokens or be pitched to FoW as needed, unlike, say, Pyroclasm.

Dack does seem interesting. Looting is great in a deck that has a combo and a lot of situational cards (see: Desolate Lighthouse in UR Twin in Modern), and the REB synergy is a nice bonus. Finding room could be tricky, though, although my SB is still in flux anyway.

[movingtonewao]

I would like to recommend another card in the form of conqueror's flail. I feel that any sfm deck that also has a 'i win' combo in it should look at this little known card from commander. equip it to your creature and you basically say "i'm gonna combo now and you can't do shit about it".

Card Name: Conqueror's Flail
Mana Cost: 2
Converted Mana Cost: 2
Types: Artifact — Equipment

Card Text:
Equipped creature gets +1/+1 for each color among permanents you control.
As long as Conqueror's Flail is attached to a creature, your opponents can't cast spells during your turn.
Equip 2

interesting rulings:
If you move Conqueror’s Flail from one creature to another, there’s no time in between that it’s not attached to a creature. Assuming it’s your turn, your opponents won’t be able to cast spells.


Probably not a maindeck card, but if you're running sfms in the deck and want a defense grid-like effect (and bonus for being tutorable with e tutor as well), then you might want to consider this guy to turn off all the 'removal spell nonsense in response to splinter twin' or counterspells messing your combo. You probably won't be fetching this with sfm unless you already have splinter twin in hand and want to go for the win (get one of the other equips instead), but even as a 'bad topdeck', it gives +2+2 at minimum and sometimes +3+3, and your opponent won't be able to play brainstorm and other tricks on your turn.

Not for quellblade since we don't have a combo to protect, but hey, you guys can do it.

[r00de]

The way I've been playing the deck is to bait out as much removal and countermagic as I can with fair cards to make the combo more reliable (or just win with the fair cards). Whether or not that's the best route, I'm not sure. I feel like the combo is inherently too slow and brittle to devote additional cards specifically to it.

Basically it's really hard to find room since the deck is trying to be two things at once. When looking for things to add main deck I'm mainly interested in cards that are already good in a fair deck but that can also support the combo in some way. SFM baits out removal, equipping Pestermite/Exarch with Jitte instead of going for the combo can force them to use removal and prevent the 2-for-1 of going for the Twin, Clique can clear the way (or at least check if the coast is clear), FoW protects it, JTMS can dig for it or shuffle away redundant pieces, etc. Sideboard cards are basically all answers and hate cards, and I'm guessing that's a necessity since most other decks are faster and/or doing something more degenerate (but easier to answer, hoepefully ;))

So while I see the appeal of Flail, I don't like it since:
1.) It doesn't do a lot in a fair game.
2.) It's relatively mana intensive for what it does in a deck that is already pretty mana hungry. 1 or 2 to tutor, 2 more to get it in play, 2 more to equip. Ideally spread out across turns, but still a big investment.
3.) The protection is pretty situational. If they have the removal they can still use it in response to the tapping trigger on their turn, or just counter the creature. You save the Twin and the tempo loss from casting it, but that's it. Fine if you have a second creature to try again next turn, not so much otherwise.

I did a few more leagues with this, not so great. I went 3-2 three times and 2-3 two times I think? Not awful for an average player with a tier 3 deck, but certainly not exciting. Some of the losses were my own misplays, and I've been getting cheesed out by the Depths Reanimator deck quite a bit. Not sure what to do about that one; their nut draws seem nigh unbeatable. I've been struggling against Elves more than I thought I would, might need an additional Pyroclasm in the board or something.

[movingtonewao]

Sure you do have a point, I totally understand what you're getting at. I come from a BUG background where I played both food chain and aluren while they were tier 2.5 decks (including a 9-6 finish at my first GP outing with aluren in prague in 2016). I recognize that the combo is there to threaten a win out of nowhere, and that your primary plan is to get stuck in and grind for value.

Depths-reanimator can't really be helped, you'll just need to have some dedicated hate and if you get cheesed a little too often then maybe some surgical extraction and pithing needle should be on standby. You'll need ways to disrupt both their gameplans (stage depths and reanimate fatty). Thankfully, they aren't as fast as BR reanimator (few decks can beat a godhand from BR) but perhaps as a non wasteland deck you'll just have to try and dodge this MU.

if you're looking at elves specifically as a problem might I suggest rough//tumble as a possible solution? (it doesn't take down opposing flipped delvers though). Ethersworn canonist helps, as does cage/EE/Dsphere/needle effects. You'll just have to take a hit in g1 and hope things sequence well in g2. I won't lie that at face value it looks like you might be naturally weak to elves and it would be hard to win a grindfest unless you combo and win (this is pretty much the same problem I've had with aluren vs elves back in 2016. They match us in the grinding department and have a 'i win' combo just as we do).

All the best!