GP Vegas Top 64 Decks

[Griselpuff]

Unfortunately, Wizards only posted Top 16. Chime in below if you know what any of the following players were on! I'd like to get a better sense of the metagame.

17 Lipp, Scott [US] Hexmage Depths
18 Wood, Alex [US] Aluren
19 Gellert, Kyle [CA] Miracles
20 (21) Tiu, Oliver [US] Czech Pile
21 Koch, Zachary [US] Infect
22 Liao, Albert [US] Elves
23 Roukas, Sam [US] Miracles
24 Caudill, Eddie [US] BR Reanimator
25 Bogucki, Woodrow [US] BUG Delver
26 Ogawa, Satoshi [JP] 4C Loam
27 Dominguez, Javier [ES] Hymn BUG Delver
28 Li, Richard [CA] Grixis Delver
29 Graves, Robert [US] Elves
30 (5) Duke, Reid [US] Elves
31 Huschenbeth, Arne [DE] BUG Delver
32 Phraner, Ryan [US] Grixis Delver
33 Eliatamby, Charles [XE] Grixis Delver
34 Huynh, Anthony [US] BUG Delver
35 Stoute, Terry [US] Grixis Delver
36 Martinez, Mario [US] Bant DeathBlade
37 Houtman, Kyle [US] OmniSneak
38 Naide, Kazutaka [JP] Eldrazi
39 Lundquist, Ben [US] UB Shadow
40 Codausi, Karl-Heinz [DE] Food Chain
41 Fields, Frank [US] Bant DeathBlade
42 Patalano, Christopher [US] Death and Taxes
43 Friedman, Samuel [US] Grixis Delver
44 Vacharat, Alex [US] Grixis Control
45 Wu, Allen [US] Death and Taxes
46 Anderson, Todd [US] BR Reanimator
47 Collard, Ashton [US] Food Chain
48 Smith, Robert [US] Elves
49 Prost, Andrejs [US] Elves
50 Besta, Kevin [CA] Jund Loam
51 Miller, Kyle9111 [US] Grixis Delver
52 Gardner, Max [US] OmniSneak
53 Forsyth, Nathaniel [XE] UR Delver
54 Gomez, John [US] Grixis Delver
55 Bender, Marius Thomas [DE] RUG Delver
56 Sonderland, Drew [US] Grixis Delver
57 Sacks, Neal [US] Jund Loam
58 Mclaughlin, Kevin [US] OmniSneak
59 Kassari, John [US] Merfolk
60 Hummel, Gary [US] Bant DeathBlade
61 Van Brocklin, Hunter [US] Hexmage Depths
62 Ayers, Corey [US] Bant DeathBlade
63 Pecora, Gerald [US]
64 Szabo, Matthew [US] Miracles

Also if you know any of their opponents, please ask them:

http://pairings.channelfireball.com/personal/34/11317731312323491

http://pairings.channelfireball.com/personal/34/15446225891649311

http://pairings.channelfireball.com/personal/34/13880155811090124

http://pairings.channelfireball.com/personal/34/10564019042157851

[Technics]

64 Szabo, Matthew [US] BUG Leovold

[Nihilis]

40 Codausi, Karl-Heinz [DE] (janchu88 from the Source) played Food Chain.

[Whitefaces]

Do you think there's a chance they'll release the T64 at a later date? Maybe along with T64 from Modern too? Such a shame if they don't...

[Griselpuff]

Do you think there's a chance they'll release the T64 at a later date? Maybe along with T64 from Modern too? Such a shame if they don't...

Historically no

[bakofried]

Alex Wood is a local, he was on (BUG?) Aluren.

Sent from my SM-G920T using Tapatalk

[JPA]

Do you think there's a chance they'll release the T64 at a later date? Maybe along with T64 from Modern too? Such a shame if they don't...

They didn't even post a day 2 metagame breakdown. Very lazy written coverage.

[Fjaulnir]

Historically no

Didn't they at least post top 32 in previous legacy GPs?

[ironclad8690]

59 Kassari, John [US]- Merfolk

[ironclad8690]

45 Wu, Allen [US] - Death and Taxes
24 Caudill, Eddie [US] - BR Reanimator

[decan]

Unfortunately, Wizards only posted Top 16. Chime in below if you know what any of the following players were on! I'd like to get a better sense of the metagame.
55 Bender, Marius Thomas [DE]

59 Kassari, John [US]

Marius was on canadian. Kassari was on coverage vs lands and played merfolk if i am not mistaken.

Edit: checked and kassari was on merfolk
Edit2: ironclad beat me to it

[itrytostorm]

64 Szabo, Matthew [US] BUG Leovold

I was definitely playing Miracles.

[Stuart]

Two Austin locals:
- 25 Bogucki, Woodrow: BUG (Delver/Leo? I'll try to confirm.)
- 47 Collard, Ashton: Food Chain

Here's my useful data point:
- 1972: Ziarnik, Stuart: Burn

[Scott]

Here's my useful data point:
- 1972: Ziarnik, Stuart: Burn

It's always an ego boost when you look up your finish and think they're listing your birth year at first.

[l33twash0r]

Two Austin locals:
- 25 Bogucki, Woodrow: BUG (Delver/Leo? I'll try to confirm.)
- 47 Collard, Ashton: Food Chain

Here's my useful data point:
- 1972: Ziarnik, Stuart: Burn

Awful matchups or bad draws?

[Pascal3000]

31 Huschenbeth, Arne [DE] BUG Delver

[Stuart]

It's always an ego boost when you look up your finish and think they're listing your birth year at first.

I'm still in my 20s - yay!


Awful matchups or bad draws?

Great matchups (all fair decks until Sneak & Show round 7, when I dropped). Draws were fine, I'd just say my opponents outplayed me. Also, I was on tilt all day after losing to Infect round 1 when he Chilled me.

[testing32]

#51 - Grixis Delver w/Stifle

[tuxdev]

Kassari at 59th was on Merfolk

[Technics]

I was definitely playing Miracles.

You 100% were. Thought you were my round 2 opponent for some reason.

[koten]

19 Gellert, Kyle [CA] Miracles

He was a trial winner so his list has been previously posted.

[Whitefaces]

I've made a post about it on Twitter too, hopefully that helps a bit.

They released T32 for Modern, but only T16 for us...quite frustrating.

[Whitefaces]

From Twitter



29 Graves, Robert [US] Elves
42 Patalano, Christopher [US] DnT w/black splash

[SageShadows]

37 Houtman, Kyle [US] was on OmniSneak

[Whitefaces]

19 Gellert, Kyle [CA] - Miracles

[Runner5678]

Zachary Koch was 9-0 so his list was released. He's also pretty active so I'm sure he'll follow-up at some point.

[Minniehajj]

Some awesome info from /u/bradleyjx over on reddit:
19 Gellert, Kyle [CA] - Miracles
26 Ogawa, Satoshi [JP] - 4c Punishing Loam
28 Li, Richard [CA] - Grixis Delver
29 Graves, Robert [US] - Elves
32 Phraner, Ryan [US] - Grixis Delver
33 Eliatamby, Charles [XE] - Grixis Delver
34 Huynh, Anthony [US] - BUG Leovold/Delver
35 Stoute, Terry [US] - Grixis Delver
36 Martinez, Mario [US] - 4c Leovold Control (w/Stoneforge Package)
37 Houtman, Kyle [US] - Show and Tell / Omniscience
38 Naide, Kazutaka [JP] - Colorless Eldrazi
41 Fields, Frank [US] - 4c Leovold Control (w/Stoneforge Package)
42 Patalano, Christopher [US] - D&T
44 Vacharat, Alex [US] - Grixis Control
49 Prost, Andrejs [US] - Elves
50 Besta, Kevin [CA] - Jund Loam
53 Forsyth, Nathaniel [XE] - U/R Delver
54 Gomez, John [US] - Grixis Delver
57 Sacks, Neal [US] - Jund Loam
58 Mclaughlin, Kevin [US] - Show and Tell / Omniscience

[jarvisyu]

Albert Liao Elves.

[Whitefaces]

52nd, Max Gardner, on Sneak and Know.

I might have counted a couple of these wrong, but I think it's breaking down like this (inc T16, so full T64 of what we know so far)

11 Grixis Delver
5 Show and Tell
5 Bant Deathblade
5 Elves
4 BUG Delver
3 Miracles
3 4c Loam
3 DnT
2 Czech Pile
2 Food Chain
2 BR Reanimator
2 BG Depths
2 Lands
2 RUG Delver
2 UW Stoneblade
2 UR Delver
2 Grixis Control
1 UB Shadow
1 Eldrazi
1 Infect
1 Aluren
1 Merfolk
1 BUG Lands

[Jain_Mor]

Good effort people, thanks for this.

[Deadeye_Mongoose]

I was playing against Corey Ayers in round 11. He was on 4-color Deathblade. I also know the guy who played against Robert Smith in round 13 so I've asked him what he was playing.

[Whitefaces]

I was playing against Corey Ayers in round 11. He was on 4-color Deathblade. I also know the guy who played against Robert Smith in round 13 so I've asked him what he was playing.

Great, thanks!

[JackaBo]

Love this community metagame compilation.

[iostream]

OK, so the counts are, modulo the two remaining unknowns:

Delver variants (19):
Grixis Delver 11
BUG Delver 4
UR Delver 2
RUG Delver 2

Control decks (21):
Deathblade 5
Grixis/4c Control 4
Miracles 3
Death and Taxes 3
Jund 2
UW Stoneblade 2
4c Loam 1
BUG Control with Stage/Depths 1

Combo (19)
Sneak/Show 5
Elves 4
Turbo depths 2
Food Chain 2
Lands 2
BR Reanmiator 2
Aluren 1
Infect 1

Assorted aggressive decks (3)
Eldrazi 1
Merfolk 1
UB Shadow 1

Unknown (2)

Chalice of the Void and Storm variants seem like the biggest losers here, which I think is surprising given how the banning of Miracles was supposed to open up the metagame to decks like Storm, which should have in turn made Chalice a bit better positioned. Anyone else have opinions about the interpretation of these data?

[koten]

Hey Bob, what did you play at the event?

[Whitefaces]

Just got word that the final player (Robert Smith) was on Elves, which means our T64 is.

11 Grixis Delver
5 Show and Tell
5 Bant Deathblade
5 Elves
4 BUG Delver
3 Miracles
3 4c Loam
3 DnT
2 Czech Pile
2 Food Chain
2 BR Reanimator
2 BG Depths
2 Lands
2 RUG Delver
2 UW Stoneblade
2 UR Delver
2 Grixis Control
1 UB Shadow
1 Eldrazi
1 Infect
1 Aluren
1 Merfolk
1 BUG Lands

Thanks everyone for your help. And thanks Bob for starting this thread.

[Lava Snacks]

Thanks for adding them up.

I think that's 63, though, and we're missing one.

So, either 68-70% decks that have Brainstorm. I've seen worse.

[hovercraft]

Anyone have a decklist for either of Jund Loam players? Is it something like Jund Depths or more like Aggro-Loam?

[MorphBerlin]

Chalice of the Void and Storm variants seem like the biggest losers here, which I think is surprising given how the banning of Miracles was supposed to open up the metagame to decks like Storm, which should have in turn made Chalice a bit better positioned. Anyone else have opinions about the interpretation of these data?

I think you have to factor in, that at a GP (especially at one with 2 other main events) alot of people are not Legacy specialist. And honesstly if someone comes from Modern and wants to play in the GP what deck would you recommend? For me its Grixis delver since it's somewhat close in playstyle and the typical "50% agaisnt everything"-deck.

There are only so many skilled Storm pilots tbh, and as the field gets bigger their percentage drops.

[Lormador]

While this is true, you can also fill in that blank with "Lands" and we can see how that deck did.

[IAmWill]

Anyone have a decklist for either of Jund Loam players? Is it something like Jund Depths or more like Aggro-Loam?

I'm not sure about Besta, Kevin, but I played against Sacks, Neal he was playing traditional DRS, Bob, Goyf, BBE, Lili Jund.

[Quasim0ff]

Anyone have a decklist for either of Jund Loam players? Is it something like Jund Depths or more like Aggro-Loam?

I don't, but Kennen Haas have been playing Jund Depths for a long ass time, and it might be this list then:

http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=113746

[hovercraft]

I'm not sure about Besta, Kevin, but I played against Sacks, Neal he was playing traditional DRS, Bob, Goyf, BBE, Lili Jund.

Okay cool thanks! Did you see any Loam?

[bradleyjx]

Anyone have a decklist for either of Jund Loam players? Is it something like Jund Depths or more like Aggro-Loam?

Both decks I mentioned on Reddit do not contain any Dark Depths packages, both were Punishing variants.

[Griselpuff]

Both decks I mentioned on Reddit do not contain any Dark Depths packages, both were Punishing variants.

So we're talking about Jund midrange and not 4C Loam?

[supremePINEAPPLE]

I'm crossing my fingers for countryside crusher and terravore loam. The real tier 0.

[thefringthing]

My impression was that Lion's Eye Diamond had a pretty good Day 2 conversion rate, but apparently it had an abysmal Day 2 to Top 64 conversion rate.

[hovercraft]

So we're talking about Jund midrange and not 4C Loam?

Yeah seems like Punishing Jund. Could still have 1 or 2 Loam in the 75 but not the main game plan.

[ramanujan]

My impression was that Lion's Eye Diamond had a pretty good Day 2 conversion rate, but apparently it had an abysmal Day 2 to Top 64 conversion rate.

This sort of thing happens a lot. It is actually a function of the way that a tournament will progress, not an Abby Normal event.

Given:

a large enough tournament
even skill level
a variety of decks

The distribution of decks making up the top cohort will cycle as rounds are played. Some decks aren't good enough to be in the cycle, so they fall away as rounds pass.

If deck A is the largest component of the cohort now, it will not be after a number of rounds, then it becomes the largest part of the cohort again several rounds later if it belongs in the cycle.

There can be instances of stability, but they don't tend to occur naturally. Something along the lines of having 5 decks with exactly the same win probability to the field strangling out the other decks.

I had a bit of fun about 10 years ago with an excel model and these were some of the findings.

[ColonelKiwi]

Small correction 50th place kevin besta was on punishing jund.

[hymnyou]

I could be wrong but top 64 looks much less diverse post top banning.

[Stuart]

I could be wrong but top 64 looks much less diverse post top banning.

I'm very much enjoying the post-Top world, but this stretch of decks is pretty embarrassing:

25 Bogucki, Woodrow [US] BUG Delver
26 Ogawa, Satoshi [JP] 4C Loam
27 Dominguez, Javier [ES] Hymn BUG Delver
28 Li, Richard [CA] Grixis Delver
29 Graves, Robert [US] Elves
30 (5) Duke, Reid [US] Elves
31 Huschenbeth, Arne [DE] BUG Delver
32 Phraner, Ryan [US] Grixis Delver
33 Eliatamby, Charles [XE] Grixis Delver
34 Huynh, Anthony [US] BUG Delver
35 Stoute, Terry [US] Grixis Delver

[tescrin]

I could be wrong but top 64 looks much less diverse post top banning.

I disagree completely. There is clearly not an oppressive force. Delver's total share (31% of top 16) seems about right given the number of people who play it. The top 64 is also all people who did roughly as well as one another (within a single point for most of them) so we're splitting hairs.

7 deck arches in the top 8 and 9-10 in the top 16. That's not bad at all. And nothing in the top 64 says "You have to run colors X and Y to fight deck X" which is big. In terms of color diversity we see UBgr, UWGb, UWr, BUG, RUG, BUR, GRB, GB, UW, UR, UB, UG, <>, W, G, U

I think the only things missing that people play are GBW, BW(g), B, R; which aside from Burn, make up like.. 8% of the meta or something ridiculous and it's not surprising that these decks who's best consistency engines are Bob, Library, Guile, GSZ, or Oath of Nissa stacked on top of grindy-CA plans don't pan out in 14 rounds or w/e.

I think that's pretty good. We see grave strats, dude-strats, control strats of both the Miracles, D&T, and the 4-color style, combo in various forms (UR, BUG, depths), and we see FOUR competing Delver archtypes represented; which is awesome. We only know that Tempo works; no indication that a single Tempo is dominating out of them; especially given the fringe numbers RUG or UR were experiencing by comparison to Grixis or even BUG.

Even after 14 rounds we see a blown-open meta IMO; and on top of that? We see Elves, Grixis, D&T, and TNN strats alive despite people expecting it; which means I don't think we're going to see a clear downfall of these decks soon. It feels like all the waiting has produced, IMO, more evidence that Legacy is the most open it's been in the 5-6 years I've been in the format.

[kabal]

I could be wrong but top 64 looks much less diverse post top banning.

Top 32 from each GP


Grand Prix Louisville
======================
7 Miracle Control
6 Sneak Attack
3 Team America
3 4C Delver
2 Reanimator
2 Grixis Pyromancer
2 Infect
1 BUG True-Name
1 Death and Taxes
1 Lands
1 Food Chain
1 UGR Threshold
1 4c Control
1 Dark Depths


Grand Prix Las Vegas
=====================
5 Grixis Pyromancer
3 Elves
3 Team America
2 Blade Control
2 Neo-Miracles
2 Sneak Attack
2 Lands
2 4C Control
1 Grixis Control
1 Reanimator
1 Death and Taxes
1 UR Burn
1 UGR Threshold
1 DeathBlade
1 BUG Control
1 Dark Depths
1 Aluren
1 Infect
1 4C Loam

[hymnyou]

Not sure if I am supposed to be impressed here, but looks a little better.

[thecrav]

People sometimes find so-called "card breakdowns" (ie, how many of each card there were) useful. Without the lists, we can't make a 100% accurate breakdown but with the deck names, we can certainly make an educated guess.

So here you go: http://lonestarlhurgoyfs.com/2017-06-20-GP-Vegas-Top-64-Card-Breakdown/

Don't complain to me about methodology. I do not care. I made this because I was bored and thought it might provide useful or interesting information.

[Whitefaces]

Seems like I jumped the gun a little and we're still missing

63 Pecora, Gerald [US]

If anyone has any leads, please let us know. Thanks!