Ruby Storm

[JosefK]

good to know though that with bonus round + wish you have almost a 100% win rate. that's pretty amazing as it requires almost no cards to execute.

with ruby:

cast bonus round + wish (RRR), then you just need RR or if you already have cast a RoF you only need R.

pretty amazing.

i think what can be important from your data is to help better understand what matchups are actually weak and focus on those. with non-blue matchups above 60-70% it might be worth sacrificing some of what makes those matchups so good to help compensate for some other cards that will improve the blue ones. (Reanimator will always be a balls to the wall sb approach.)

-Rob

Yeah, I can't recall a single time that bonus round hazoret failed me, so the 7% failure rate is from single hazoret only.

The hard part with the bad (and less good) matchups is that they are so... diverse. What's good against non blue is mostly the cards that give speed, like desperate ritual. But speed is important in blue matchups as well. The only matchup where I feel I can play for the long game is grixis. Miracles snowballs so fast these days with AKs.
Maybe I could cut the echoing truths and just try to race hate and get more sb space that way, but really don't know what to add to help vs the bad matchups. But that's part of the fun :)

[mistercakes]

played in a local 4 round event today.

short recap:

r1: miracles (2-1)
r2: bug control (1-2)
r3: miracles (2-0)
r4: miracles (2-1)

long recap:

round 1:

g1: i mulled to 5 and had one reforge, which was FoW'd.
g2: i didn't take notes on this, but what i recall from this is game 1 involved a resolved ruby medallion. i believe i killed an early monastery mentor with a lightning bolt. then i was able to kill him with some bonus round lightning bolts.
g3: game was pretty drawn out, eventually i resolved a guttersnipe and killed him through leyline of sanctity and some surgicals. (i believe he surgical'd some ramp spells and/or manamorphoses. i think scroll rack resolved in this game. i also resolved a few red blasts/pyroblasts.

round 2:

g1: he had a lot of counter magic, but he didn't have any threats and i was able to goldfish over several turns.
g2: my hand was okay, but he had all the counters and kept my ruby's off the board. i died to angler. i killed 2 leovolds and a jace.
g3: i had a line where he was tapped out. i had a kill with wish-> tendrils for lethal, but i needed to manamorphose into anything that would net me +1 mana. i whiffed. over a few more turns i had some outs, but he had enough counters and some threats.

round 3:
g1: took a while, and i almost punted the game on a single turn. we were playing draw go quite a bit. eventually he had a counterbalance out and i had enough cards to push through all the counters with past in flames. i cast burning wish and he flips jace. a bit problematic as most of my cards here are 4cc. (i could have gone for empty, but didn't want to risk it). i took past in flames and then activated my scroll rack (not sure why i wanted to dig one more). then he cast jace and fatesealed! ugh that felt really bad. over the next 5-6 turns he had jace up to 13, but with scroll rack i was able to find one of my 2 maindeck past in flames. totally stole that one.
g2: i had a pretty solid goldfishing hand, he tapped out for counterbalance and only had a white open. i cast red blast to counter it, and he forced the red blast. i then cast bonus round and a bunch of rite of flames (even w/ counterbalance revealing 1.) then cast past in flames and killed him after flipping 12 and finding a confluence.

round 4:
g1: opponent played turn 3 monastery mentor and killed me on turn 5.
g2: went back and forth with draw go style. sandstone needles and ancient tombs made up for my lack of land drops on several turns. drew 3 ruby medallions and the 3rd one stuck. when he got low on counterspells, i cast a guttersnipe and forced with backup. after that he only had 2 flusterstorms in hand. i was able to pay for the 2nd one (i was casting burning wish and got PiF). i then bolted his clique and passed the turn. he had 0 cards and drew mentor. i cast pif the next turn and won pretty easily as he had no interaction.
g3: i had a pretty decent hand and he had a hand with just cantrips. he couldn't find any kind of interaction with me and i cast a guttersnipe. he cast mentor and passed the turn looking to race. i fortunately had a bunch of rite of flame, desperate ritual, act on impulse (3 of them) and was able to deal 20 with just the guttersnipe and the rituals/AoI, although i did have a past in flames as well.

list:
(61 cards)
4 burning wish
4 act on impulse
4 bonus round
4 reforge the soul
4 manamorphose
4 seething song
4 desperate ritual
4 ruby medallion
4 lotus petal
3 rite of flame
3 lion's eye diamond
2 past in flames
2 lightning bolt
1 scroll rack
4 sandstone needle
4 ancient tomb
6 mountain

sb:
1 past in flames
1 tendrils of agony
1 fiery confluence
1 hazoret's undying fury
1 rite of flame
1 grapeshot
1 empty the warrens
2 abrade
2 red elemental blast
2 pyroblast
2 guttersnipe

sbing vs these decks.
i tended to cut the 3 led's, 1 desperate ritual, 2 bonus round, 2 reforge the soul, and vs the bug deck i also cut 1 pif. 9 cards at most. if i wanted to bringin more than 9 cards i just played with more cards in the deck (i think i even had up to 63 cards during some of the miracles games on the draw). vs decks with slow clocks i don't mind missing some land drops if it means i can have a higher threat count.

Led's today were pretty unspectacular, it could be because i didn't require speed in my draws. it could also be that they just don't really fit the needs of the deck. there are times when i'm playing where Act on Impulse is significantly better with LED's, but maybe it's not worth it.

In hindsight the guttersnipes were quite excellent vs these decks and given how popular they are in large events (miracles and control in general), i would probably consider running 2 guttersnipe maindeck and potentially a 3rd bolt. (i do like 61 cards, but otherwise just don't add the 3rd bolt). it could also be a 15th land if you are a big more on the safe side.

sb felt really good, with 2 snipes moving to the maindeck, that opens up 2 more slots. could make sense to put some graveyard hate then for the inevitable reanimator decks. 2 surgical is probably fine, although tormod's crypt is also very good, especially with reforge the soul.

sorry for the lack of tags, didn't feel like putting in the extra effort.

edit:

scroll rack was also excellent.

next proposed list: (not to say LED is not great in this deck, i think it has a lot of merit, but will try without for the sake of playing more business spells.) could also just run the current list a few more times to see how it goes.


list:
(61 cards)
4 burning wish
4 act on impulse
4 bonus round
4 reforge the soul
4 manamorphose
4 seething song
4 desperate ritual
4 ruby medallion
4 lotus petal
3 rite of flame
2 guttersnipe
2 past in flames
3 lightning bolt
1 scroll rack
4 sandstone needle
4 ancient tomb
6 mountain

sb:
1 past in flames
1 tendrils of agony
1 fiery confluence
1 hazoret's undying fury
1 rite of flame
1 grapeshot
1 empty the warrens
2 abrade
2 red elemental blast
2 pyroblast
2 tormod's crypt

[Shamaatae]

Just found the deck like a month ago. Will post my list for discussion. Havn't really fiddled with it too much, just keeps on giving me good results. Data is not collected but my feel is its a high win percentage. Some matchups are horrible in my experience, like BR-reanimator. Also would like to add some blasts in the board for miracles, just so annyoing getting jaces and cb on the battlefield. Also apex is a bit win-more, but actually helps some matchups where you dont want to give your opp 7 cards.

bolts main will never get cut, helps vs hatebears and also wincons with bonus rounds.

main:

3 Rite of Flame
1 Desperate Ritual
4 Manamorphose
4 Seething Song
3 Bonus Round
4 Burning Wish
4 Act on Impulse
2 Tormenting Voice

2 Lightning Bolt

2 Past in Flames
3 Reforge the Soul
1 Hazoret's Undying Fury
1 Empty the Warrens

4 Ruby Medallion
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Lotus Petal

4 Ancient Tomb
10 Mountain

sb:
1 Empty the Warrens
1 Apex of Power
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Past in Flames
1 Grapeshot
2 By Force
1 Rite of Flame
2 Faerie Macabre
1 Fiery Confluence
1 Reforge the Soul
2 Defense Grid
1 Cave-In

[JosefK]

I must test guttersnipe, my last league I decided to put 4 scab clan berserkers in the board to bring in vs combo/reanimator/control. It actually worked really good game 2 vs miracles and reanimator. I think I will try guttersnipes the next league. Really uncertain if maindeck is good when it turns on all maindeck removal... my baral experiments turned out really bad because of bolt/plow.

It's cool that everyone but me seems to like bolt. Must test them again. To me it seems like they are to orthogonal to the main game plan. But they must be a lot better when playing guttersnipes.

Will also try REB when I get the time. Worse than fluster vs storm/reanimator but better vs control/delver. I probably should think more about how much better a certain matchup becomes by using a sideboard card. 5% improvement vs miracles is a lot better than 5% vs show and tell.

[mistercakes]

I would probably keep my maindeck as is right now before trying things out, but the bolts and blasts were really good. I even won a game without casting burning wish. (I think!)

[JosefK]

I've tried out 1 REB in the board instead of one flusterstorm and it have felt so good to me in the 5-6 matches i boarded it in. Even tho i actually only cast it once, and then flusterstorm would have been equally good. It's really strange, mostly it felt good sitting in my hand, knowing that if my opponent slams jace i can stop it. But also an edge case but one that comes up sometimes is when both me and my opponent is at 4 mana, i cast seething song and they respond with snapcaster - flusterstorm. Flusterstorm from my side cant stop that as they have 1 mana up and i have none. REB stops the snapcaster. I still gonna play some amount of flusterstorm for the storm matchup. But i'm glad that i tried REB again and it's a good case of when theory and practice not always aligns.

[mistercakes]

also worth maybe noting, pyroblast, while it can be misdirected onto any card/spell, can generate a storm count (just target a land). i ran 2/2 to avoid surgical.

also - counterbalance can be easily stopped if you have a bonus round + red blast (since the copy will kill the counterbalance). not huge but still came up.

[JosefK]

Yeah, my reason for running REB were the price difference on MTGO :)(~5 tix vs ~0 tix) still trying to not spend any additional money on it, and after a couple of 2-3 leagues I'm running on fumes :)

[JosefK]

Ran a league now with 2 bolts and a guttersnipe main and 1 sideboard. Cut 1 brainstorm, 1 reforge and 1 island from the main, did not spend much thought on what to cut.

I went 2-3, it's hard to tell after only 5 games, but i will try it one more league i think. Guttersnipe main i think is wrong, i killed with it once but mostly it was just killed directly. I had some situations where i think i misplayed because i _wanted_ to use guttersnipe, even tho i could have used other lines. I think i like it in the board tho, as it's a must counter threat if opponent has sideboarded out all creature removal. Bolt felt good, killed with it twice, killed gaddok teeg and thalia, pyromancer, snapcaster. But still not really sure if it's good enough. When i killed with it almost any card would have won the game, like overmaster/preordain. And the games vs blue decks where i killed creatures i still lost the game. Definitely good vs hatecreatures, but already have quite good matchup vs those. Well, more testing will tell.

[mistercakes]

i like the idea of bonus round + bonus round + reforge -> draw into 2 bolts. win at instant speed. :)

[ronco]

For those who like act on impulse, the first card was spoiled for RVA:

http://www.magicspoiler.com/mtg-spoiler/light-the-stage/

2R - Sorcery
Spectacle: R.
Exile the top 2 cards of your library. Until the end of your next turn you may play those cards.

On its own not good enough, but depending on how the "spectacle" keyword comes out, if its an alternate casting cost, this might prove useful? Maybe the extra turn might be worth it?

[mistercakes]

That's awesome. This is what I love about this deck the most. So many new toys to actually play with several times a year.

[mistercakes]

My guess is based on the text spectacle may allow you to cast it on someone else's turn.

[Mr. Safety]

Whatever the stipulation for the spectacle keyword it's likely worth it for the R casting cost. Maybe you have to reveal a red card from your hand?

[JosefK]

Oh, i hope it's an alternative casting cost, one that can be abused, like return a spell you control to hand. But it seems more like an additional cost. But let's hope! If it without to big drawback let's you cast it for R i think it will definitely have a place!

[ronco]

Confirmed, the spectacle cost is an alternate cost that can be paid if an opponent lost life this turn.

source: other spoiled card with reminder/rules text. So, might still be useful in bolt/snipe builds. Maybe.

[Mr. Safety]

Confirmed, the spectacle cost is an alternate cost that can be paid if an opponent lost life this turn.

source: other spoiled card with reminder/rules text. So, might still be useful in bolt/snipe builds. Maybe.

Guttersnipe is looking a lot more interesting now!

[ronco]

No idea if this card will see play, but I'm sure people will brew with it nonetheless:


Lavinia, Azorius Renegade
WU
LEgend - human soldier
Each opponent can't cast noncreature spells with CMC greater than the number of lands they control.
When an opponent casts a spell, if no mana was spent to cast it, counter that spell.

Fortunately, dies to bolt!

[mistercakes]

will explore back to the guttersnipe builds when this card comes out. i have been running a few guttersnipes in the sb and they rarely disappoint.

[Mr. Safety]

will explore back to the guttersnipe builds when this card comes out. i have been running a few guttersnipes in the sb and they rarely disappoint.

I've been on 3 Snipes in the board since Bonus Round was printed, dropping the Pyroblasts and an Ensnaring Bridge. I like that if Snipe isn't countered then the engine cards are likely to get by uncountered. Starting the chain with a Rite of Flame, deal 2 damage with Snipe, get the cheap spectacle cost with a mini-Act on Impulse.

[mistercakes]

this is what i'll be testing:

// 60 Maindeck
// 12 Artifact
4 Lotus Petal
4 Ruby Medallion
4 Lion's Eye Diamond

// 4 Creature
4 Guttersnipe

// 10 Instant
4 Manamorphose
4 Seething Song
2 Desperate Ritual

// 14 Land
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Sandstone Needle
6 Mountain

// 20 Sorcery
3 Rite of Flame
4 Burning Wish
2 Past in Flames
3 Bonus Round
4 Act on Impulse
4 Light up the Stage


// 15 Sideboard
// 6 Instant
SB: 2 Abrade
SB: 2 Red Elemental Blast
SB: 2 Pyroblast

// 9 Sorcery
SB: 1 Tendrils of Agony
SB: 1 Grapeshot
SB: 1 Empty the Warrens
SB: 1 Past in Flames
SB: 1 Fiery Confluence
SB: 1 Rite of Flame
SB: 1 Hazoret's Undying Fury
SB: 1 Reforge the Soul
SB: 1 Bonus Round

[Mr. Safety]

I would jam 1x Reforge in your sideboard. I understand making room in the main for the new card and Guttersnipe, but it seems insane to have access to it with Burning Wish, considering Guttersnipe.

[mistercakes]

I would jam 1x Reforge in your sideboard. I understand making room in the main for the new card and Guttersnipe, but it seems insane to have it accessible with Guttersnipe.

it's already in there.

[Mr. Safety]

it's already in there.

DOH! Missed it.

[mistercakes]

there's always a chance to go back to 3 guttersnipe and run 61 cards with 2 maindeck reforge. i really like playing 61 cards in this deck and reforge is a fine card in the control matchups or vs decks where you absolutely need to go off asap (and they don't have counter magic)

[Mr. Safety]

I agree, I'm back on 3x maindeck Reforge 1x side. That was before the spoiler though, so I have to lay out all my cards and figure this out, lol. I think this card is the last nail in the coffin for one of my pet cards for the deck (Shreds of Sanity.) It's just more efficient and does more; Bonus Round pushed me away from Shreds, this cuts it entirely.

My big quandary at this point is how many copies of Past in Flames to include maindeck at this point. For the longest time it was 3 main, 1 side. I think that needs to be re-evaluated considering the dig power that is back in the deck with Reforge, Act on Impulse, and this new min-AoI. It's pretty much exactly what the deck needed: another cheap source of draw/dig. This is the best replacement for Probe we've seen yet (I am guessing.)

[mistercakes]

prior to this card, i'm really happy with 4 reforge maindeck and 0 in the sb. this was an improvement to the deck which can be credited to JosefK. with this new card, it may not be needed.

a lot of testing will be needed to determine what the appropriate numbers of reforge and LutS are. I do like that LutS really pushes the deck to play LED more than before.

i haven't really missed having reforge in the sb, but am fine with playing one in the sb. unfortunately there really isn't a good replacement for probe, as it was a good card for the deck.

time will tell, i don't like playing guttersnipe main, but am willing to try it out. it tends to be a lot better once opponents have sided out their removal.

[vieko]

prior to this card, i'm really happy with 4 reforge maindeck and 0 in the sb. this was an improvement to the deck which can be credited to JosefK. with this new card, it may not be needed.

a lot of testing will be needed to determine what the appropriate numbers of reforge and LutS are. I do like that LutS really pushes the deck to play LED more than before.

i haven't really missed having reforge in the sb, but am fine with playing one in the sb. unfortunately there really isn't a good replacement for probe, as it was a good card for the deck.

time will tell, i don't like playing guttersnipe main, but am willing to try it out. it tends to be a lot better once opponents have sided out their removal.

But Cakes... let's watch Ravnica burn one soul at a time ;)

[mistercakes]

got to play this week at my local and went with the same list.

went 2-2.

2-0 burn (got to bolt an eidolon game 1 which felt sweet)
1-2 miracles (g1 i drew 7 lands and never hit enough threats). g2 he mulled to death. g3 was close.
1-2 bug delver (won g1 with a weird miracled wheel on turn 2. g2&3, delver goyf counter backup draws. g2 also had hymn) g3 if i had drawn a ruby or seething song i would have won, but couldn't generate enough mana due to siding out LED's and not drawing more gas. pif was a bit clunky with 3 AoI's that game.
2-0 aggro loam (mostly goldfished, bad matchup for loam player)

thoughts: deck was still very good, but i didn't sideboard properly vs delver. miracles matchup was fine and unfortunately he just had enough counters to pull through.

new card: new card does seem very good, i'm pretty torn between keeping the reforges or not. it's really meta dependent, but the new card [card]light up the stage[/cards] is very good. i will end up playing 3-4. i will likely start playing hope of ghirapur now with it, as attacking for 1 and turning on LutS is pretty crazy.

i think this is what i'd run after light up the stage:

// 61 Maindeck
// 12 Artifact
4 Lotus Petal
4 Ruby Medallion
4 Lion's Eye Diamond

// 11 Instant
4 Manamorphose
4 Seething Song
2 Lightning Bolt
1 Desperate Ritual

// 14 Land
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Sandstone Needle
6 Mountain

// 24 Sorcery
3 Rite of Flame
4 Burning Wish
2 Past in Flames
4 Bonus Round
4 Act on Impulse
4 Light up the Stage
3 Reforge the Soul


// 15 Sideboard
// 6 Creature
SB: 3 Hope of Ghirapur
SB: 3 Guttersnipe

// 9 Sorcery
SB: 1 Tendrils of Agony
SB: 1 Grapeshot
SB: 1 Empty the Warrens
SB: 1 Past in Flames
SB: 1 Fiery Confluence
SB: 1 Hazoret's Undying Fury
SB: 1 Rite of Flame
SB: 1 By Force
SB: 1 Reforge the Soul

still tempted to fit in the scroll rack.

[Mr. Safety]

How has the 4 Sandstone Needle affected your starts? Have you gotten it Wasteland-ed before tapping for mana?

[mistercakes]

yes, it has been wastelanded. it's well worth it. in hands where that would cost you the game, would you rather play city of traitors?

mountain is a fine replacement, but sometimes very challenging to get enough red for bonus round. i've really enjoyed it in the matchups where you need to play draw go.

[ReAnimator]

Is it worth re discussing Firebrand Archer vs Guttersnipe again?
The reason being that attacking with a Firebrand on turn 2 or 3 seems more likely to happen, cause of it's cheaper cost. So turning on the LutS early just for value might be worth something. Like sure most of the time you would just be triggering the pinging first, but this is a situation where you wouldn't need to commit extra spells first, which is something.

Totally possible that just only pinging for 1 is too much of a downside. I don't have enough experience playing with Snipes to know if storm 10 vs 20 is actually a big deal for this or not. IF it's not, that cost difference in mana might be worth it.
There is also the super minor upside of firebrand being able to ping off of artifacts being cast but that's pretty negligible, except in the early turns where you could say cast an archer, lay down an LED for a ping to get LutS off for one mana which compared to snipe is going to save at least a couple of mana.

[mistercakes]

Vieko has tried it a bunch, I think he can speak to it.

[vieko]

Vieko has tried it a bunch, I think he can speak to it.

1R 2/1 Archer:
- Petal, LED, Medallion, Instant, Sorcery will trigger and burn for 1
- Some fun lines with her when holding artifacts in hand!

2R 2/2 Snipe:
- Instant, Sorcery will trigger and burn for 2
- I've always, always, always been a fan of 3/4MB Snipes



For the record, this is what I'm going with ASA Light Up the Stage comes to MTGO:


RUBY STORM 10.2

14 LAND
12 Mountain
2 City of Traitors

8 MANA
4 Lotus Petal
4 Lion's Eye Diamond

8 RITUAL
4 Rite of Flame
4 Seething Song

6/8 DAMAGE
3/4 Guttersnipe
3/4 Firebrand Archer

8 EXILE / PLAY
4 Act on Impulse
4 Light the Stage

4 TUTOR
4 Burning Wish

4 REDUCTION
4 Ruby Medallion

4 MANA / DRAW
4 Manamorphose

1/3 COPY / STORM
1/3 Empty the Warrens

1 FLASHBACK
1 Past in Flames


SIDEBOARD
3 Scab-Clan Berserker
3 Hope of Ghirapur
2 Tormod's Crypt
1 By Force
1 Grapeshot
1 Pyroclasm
1 Past in Flames
1 Goblin War Strike
1 Empty the Warrens
1 Tendrils of Agony

[JosefK]

I'm pretty sure LutS does not make the cut in my version. Feels worse than both brainstorm and ponder, and even preordain.
I did try goldfishing both mistercakes and viekos lists, and i do like that unlike act on impulse you can just fire off LutS without floating mana. But i still feel like the card is kind of clunky sometimes. Had situations where i floated 2 red mana and a led in play and cast AoI, revealing land seething song and LutS. Tried going for it and just fizzled out.
In Viekos list the card felt great, and i would probably play like 12 of them in that deck if i could, but i'm not a big fan of the guttersnipes/archers overall.

And i must ask @Vieko, what is in your opinion the average goldfish turn of your version? I did 5 goldfishes right now, won turn 5, 4, 4, 3, 5. I know that speed is not everything and goldfishing seldom matters vs most of the field, but the way the games felt was mostly:
T1 do nothing
T2 play creature
T3 try something, dealing some damage but not enough.
T4 end the game with PiF, or just chain enough spells

What frightens me is that vs a real opponent they have time to bolt/plow/decay/Kcommand the creature, or just win. It might just be my inexperience tho.

Just for reference, 5 games with mistercakes lists went 3-3-2-2-2, with my list 3-2-3-1-2. I kind of fell in love with sandstone needle, at least when goldfishing :) Might need to squeeze some in.

[mistercakes]

Woohoo sandstone love.

[vieko]

JosefK: I'm thinking 3/3 our 4/2 is the split for Archer/Snipe respectively and 3x Empty MB – less fizzle this way and (still) enough constant damage. Maybe X Archers, X Bolts and 2x Empty is worth considering. I like playing less like TES and more like ANT / Station: take your time, load the "hand" and only get aggressive if you have to (vs. combos) or if I get the nuts. If you can setup Medallions, do so. If you can get opponents to burn counters, great. With LUTS you get to load your card selection for next turn which was always a line I took with Commune when Cakes and I were testing it. Just gotta get those reps in!



I'm pretty sure LutS does not make the cut in my version. Feels worse than both brainstorm and ponder, and even preordain.
I did try goldfishing both mistercakes and viekos lists, and i do like that unlike act on impulse you can just fire off LutS without floating mana. But i still feel like the card is kind of clunky sometimes. Had situations where i floated 2 red mana and a led in play and cast AoI, revealing land seething song and LutS. Tried going for it and just fizzled out.
In Viekos list the card felt great, and i would probably play like 12 of them in that deck if i could, but i'm not a big fan of the guttersnipes/archers overall.

And i must ask @Vieko, what is in your opinion the average goldfish turn of your version? I did 5 goldfishes right now, won turn 5, 4, 4, 3, 5. I know that speed is not everything and goldfishing seldom matters vs most of the field, but the way the games felt was mostly:
T1 do nothing
T2 play creature
T3 try something, dealing some damage but not enough.
T4 end the game with PiF, or just chain enough spells

What frightens me is that vs a real opponent they have time to bolt/plow/decay/Kcommand the creature, or just win. It might just be my inexperience tho.

Just for reference, 5 games with mistercakes lists went 3-3-2-2-2, with my list 3-2-3-1-2. I kind of fell in love with sandstone needle, at least when goldfishing :) Might need to squeeze some in.

[mistercakes]

latest goldfishing version in prep:

// 60 Maindeck
// 12 Artifact
4 Lotus Petal
4 Ruby Medallion
4 Lion's Eye Diamond

// 9 Instant
4 Manamorphose
4 Seething Song
1 Lightning Bolt

// 14 Land
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Sandstone Needle
6 Mountain

// 25 Sorcery
3 Rite of Flame
4 Burning Wish
2 Past in Flames
4 Bonus Round
4 Act on Impulse
4 Light up the Stage
4 Reforge the Soul


// 15 Sideboard
// 6 Creature
SB: 3 Hope of Ghirapur
SB: 3 Guttersnipe

// 9 Sorcery
SB: 1 Tendrils of Agony
SB: 1 Grapeshot
SB: 1 Empty the Warrens
SB: 1 Past in Flames
SB: 1 Fiery Confluence
SB: 1 Hazoret's Undying Fury
SB: 1 Rite of Flame
SB: 1 By Force
SB: 1 Reforge the Soul

[Neo900]

Hello everybody,
I'm new to the deck and played so far on Xmage and have nearly everything for the deck.
Yesterday I hosted a FNM and played the following list with a score of 0-3

Deck: Red Storm (https://deckstats.net/decks/70092/1103442-red-storm/de) https://deckstats.net/mana/m/r.gif

//Main
4 Act on Impulse (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=de&card=Act+on+Impulse)
4 Ancient Tomb (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=de&card=Ancient+Tomb)
3 Bonus Round (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=de&card=Bonus+Round)
4 Burning Wish (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=de&card=Burning+Wish)
2 Desperate Ritual (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=de&card=Desperate+Ritual)
1 Empty the Warrens (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=de&card=Empty+the+Warrens)
1 Hazoret's Undying Fury (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=de&card=Hazoret%27s+Undying+Fury)
2 Helm of Awakening (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=de&card=Helm+of+Awakening)
4 Lotus Petal (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=de&card=Lotus+Petal)
4 Manamorphose (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=de&card=Manamorphose)
5 Mountain (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=de&card=Mountain)
1 Overmaster (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=de&card=Overmaster)
3 Past in Flames (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=de&card=Past+in+Flames)
3 Reforge the Soul (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=de&card=Reforge+the+Soul)
4 Rite of Flame (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=de&card=Rite+of+Flame)
4 Ruby Medallion (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=de&card=Ruby+Medallion)
4 Seething Song (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=de&card=Seething+Song)
2 Simian Spirit Guide (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=de&card=Simian+Spirit+Guide)
5 Snow-Covered Mountain (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=de&card=Snow-Covered+Mountain)

//Sideboard
2 By Force (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=de&card=By+Force)
1 Cave-In (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=de&card=Cave-In)
3 Defense Grid (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=de&card=Defense+Grid)
1 Empty the Warrens (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=de&card=Empty+the+Warrens)
1 Firespout (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=de&card=Firespout)
1 Grapeshot (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=de&card=Grapeshot)
1 Past in Flames (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=de&card=Past+in+Flames)
1 Reforge the Soul (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=de&card=Reforge+the+Soul)
2 Silent Gravestone (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=de&card=Silent+Gravestone)
1 Tendrils of Agony (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=de&card=Tendrils+of+Agony)
1 Tormod's Crypt (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=de&card=Tormod%27s+Crypt)

https://i.hbtronix.de/chart_pie.png Show more (https://deckstats.net/decks/70092/1103442-red-storm)

It was quite fun if I could combo off.
I lost against Aggro Loam, Grixis Control and Big Eldrazi.
The worst card was Simian Spirit Guide. Flipping Spirit Guide in Act on Impulse lost everytime.
I hope to get some ideas and help from long term players.
My favorite card is Bonus Round. An active Bonus Round is quite often the win.
I'm also unsure about my Side/Wish Board. Reforge the Soul doesn't seem so good, perhabs I want another Fury.

[JosefK]

Well i don't really have much advise to give other than what's already in the thread :) But some thoughts
Act on impulse and lion's eye diamond are friends that i would not separate :)
1 overmaster feels really random.
I feel like helm of awakening is to dangerous.
I think if you have decided on running mono-red, you should play sandstone needle.
Definitely play 4 Desperate ritual before adding spirit guides if running bonus round.
Both cave in and firespout in sideboard seems a bit overkill.
And finally, splash blue :D (but it seems i'm the only one doing that)

[Glass House]

Unfortunately I think that splashing blue is a requirement for this deck to have a shot at being genuinely competitive. I - and most others, I'm sure - stick to mono red largely for budget reasons. There are some arguments to be made in favor of mono red besides budget but I don't think they outweight the pros of splashing blue.

[Mr. Safety]

Right now, I agree with you. Light up the Stage might change that dynamic slightly. The biggest loss was Gitaxian Probe so something along those lines is needed to get it back to par in a mono-red shell. A one mana Manamoprhose would probably do it.

[Lammina]

latest goldfishing version in prep:

// 60 Maindeck
// 12 Artifact
4 Lotus Petal
4 Ruby Medallion
4 Lion's Eye Diamond

// 9 Instant
4 Manamorphose
4 Seething Song
1 Lightning Bolt

// 14 Land
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Sandstone Needle
6 Mountain

// 25 Sorcery
3 Rite of Flame
4 Burning Wish
2 Past in Flames
4 Bonus Round
4 Act on Impulse
4 Light up the Stage
4 Reforge the Soul


// 15 Sideboard
// 6 Creature
SB: 3 Hope of Ghirapur
SB: 3 Guttersnipe

// 9 Sorcery
SB: 1 Tendrils of Agony
SB: 1 Grapeshot
SB: 1 Empty the Warrens
SB: 1 Past in Flames
SB: 1 Fiery Confluence
SB: 1 Hazoret's Undying Fury
SB: 1 Rite of Flame
SB: 1 By Force
SB: 1 Reforge the Soul


Hi Cakes!

I have a doubt: in this version, your sideboard isnt too vulnerable to combos like storm and controls? I mean, do you cut blood moons, defense grids and REB/pyroblast to put 3 gutter and 3 ghirapur: worth it?
And I dont have the LEDs in the moment, what do you suggest me: I was thinking in -4 leds + 2 bolts and +2 desperate. What do you think? Im open to suggestions.

Cyah,

Lammina

[ronco]

Another interesting one:
http://www.magicspoiler.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/Electrodominance.jpg

Might not make the cut, but the fact it is an instant and allows for the casting of spells outside the normal timing window (I think.... IANAJ), could allow for some fun tricks. Thinking something like opponent's EOT Seething song -> this -> drop guttersnipe, then untap and rock and roll. Probably too fringe and cute but figured I'd share it anyway.

[mistercakes]

What is this referencing

[Lejay]

Maybe this card revealed recently https://scryfall.com/card/rna/99/electrodominance
https://img.scryfall.com/cards/large/front/5/c/5c63877b-cdab-4ce4-a1c0-c088eb62a57a.jpg?1546601710

[Glass House]

Worth noting that this gives us the possibility of playing Ancestral Vision and Wheel of Fate. At instant speed even.
Maybe a playset of those and a playset of Kari Zev's Expertise would make it reliable enough to give it a try.

[mistercakes]

wondering how this works with act on impulse. act says until end of turn, does this mean after the end step, or does this trigger at some timing after the end step, like after the discard step?

anyway, i would only see it being relevant with some kind of end step cast it for burning wish, for act on impulse, or for the new card light up the stage.

outside of that i think you're bordering too much on unplayable cards.

[FourDogsinaHorseSuit]

wondering how this works with act on impulse. act says until end of turn, does this mean after the end step, or does this trigger at some timing after the end step, like after the discard step?

Since the cards are exiled and not in your hand I don't think there is any notable interaction here.
EDIT:
Actually I think I misread what you wanted to know: The end step is still part of the turn, and usually "at the end of your turn" is short-hand for "At the end step, after the active player passes me priority" so if you used this spell to cast Act on Impulse you could still play the revealed cards. Normal timing restrictions apply to the revealed cards.

[mistercakes]

Since the cards are exiled and not in your hand I don't think there is any notable interaction here.
EDIT:
Actually I think I misread what you wanted to know: The end step is still part of the turn, and usually "at the end of your turn" is short-hand for "At the end step, after the active player passes me priority" so if you used this spell to cast Act on Impulse you could still play the revealed cards. Normal timing restrictions apply to the revealed cards.

yea i was trying to understand if i got those 3 exiled cards until my end step if i cast it on their end step.

[mistercakes]

Hi Cakes!

I have a doubt: in this version, your sideboard isnt too vulnerable to combos like storm and controls? I mean, do you cut blood moons, defense grids and REB/pyroblast to put 3 gutter and 3 ghirapur: worth it?
And I dont have the LEDs in the moment, what do you suggest me: I was thinking in -4 leds + 2 bolts and +2 desperate. What do you think? Im open to suggestions.

Cyah,

Lammina

Hiya,

With no LED's I'd probably approach it like this:


// 60 Maindeck
// 8 Artifact
4 Lotus Petal
4 Ruby Medallion

// 2 Creature
2 Guttersnipe

// 12 Instant
4 Manamorphose
4 Seething Song
4 Desperate Ritual

// 14 Land
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Sandstone Needle
6 Mountain

// 24 Sorcery
4 Rite of Flame
4 Burning Wish
2 Past in Flames
4 Bonus Round
4 Act on Impulse
4 Light up the Stage
2 Reforge the Soul


// 15 Sideboard
// 2 Artifact
SB: 2 Tormod's Crypt

// 3 Creature
SB: 3 Hope of Ghirapur

// 2 Instant
SB: 2 Pyroblast

// 8 Sorcery
SB: 1 Tendrils of Agony
SB: 1 Grapeshot
SB: 1 Empty the Warrens
SB: 1 Past in Flames
SB: 1 Fiery Confluence
SB: 1 Hazoret's Undying Fury
SB: 1 By Force
SB: 1 Reforge the Soul


feel free to tinker with it a bit. by no means is this list set in stone. you can also try to fit in bolts if you'd like. if so you can do the 2 maindeck bolts like you said and move the guttersnipes to the sb. guttersnipe is very good vs miracles post board. i haven't tested hope much, but it's probably pretty good vs a lot of the field + it works well with light up the stage.

i've also been considering moving away from a reforge build in testing, but it's still not 100%:

// 61 Maindeck
// 12 Artifact
4 Lotus Petal
4 Ruby Medallion
4 Lion's Eye Diamond

// 11 Instant
4 Manamorphose
4 Seething Song
3 Desperate Ritual

// 14 Land
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Sandstone Needle
6 Mountain

// 24 Sorcery
3 Rite of Flame
4 Burning Wish
2 Past in Flames
4 Bonus Round
4 Act on Impulse
4 Light up the Stage
3 Hazoret's Undying Fury


// 15 Sideboard
// 6 Creature
SB: 3 Hope of Ghirapur
SB: 3 Guttersnipe

// 9 Sorcery
SB: 1 Tendrils of Agony
SB: 1 Grapeshot
SB: 1 Empty the Warrens
SB: 1 Past in Flames
SB: 1 Fiery Confluence
SB: 1 Hazoret's Undying Fury
SB: 1 Rite of Flame
SB: 1 By Force
SB: 1 Reforge the Soul


main reasoning behind this is that with 4 act and 4 stage, hazoret's is a much better card than hoping to hit reforge the soul. this opened up too many chances to give opponents what they need. usually hazoret's with bonus round won't matter if you hit a reforge or not, but without bonus round hazoret's in this configuration might be better. will need to test more after the new card comes out.

led also used to only work really well off hazoret's with wish/act/pif (and reforge, but it's always a bit risky after sb with that card - game 1 always great), but with stage you have another legit card. tapping out for hazoret's is relatively safe in terms of trying to get enough mana to play your exiled cards.

main advantage for reforge is that hitting the miracle is really great vs a lot of decks and can steal games pretty easily.

reforge would have this build:


// 61 Maindeck
// 13 Artifact
4 Lotus Petal
4 Ruby Medallion
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
1 Scroll Rack

// 9 Instant
4 Manamorphose
4 Seething Song
1 Desperate Ritual

// 14 Land
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Sandstone Needle
6 Mountain

// 25 Sorcery
3 Rite of Flame
4 Burning Wish
2 Past in Flames
4 Bonus Round
4 Act on Impulse
4 Light up the Stage
4 Reforge the Soul


// 15 Sideboard
// 2 Artifact
SB: 2 Tormod's Crypt

// 5 Creature
SB: 3 Hope of Ghirapur
SB: 2 Guttersnipe

// 8 Sorcery
SB: 1 Tendrils of Agony
SB: 1 Grapeshot
SB: 1 Empty the Warrens
SB: 1 Past in Flames
SB: 1 Fiery Confluence
SB: 1 Hazoret's Undying Fury
SB: 1 Rite of Flame
SB: 1 By Force


i'm still torn a bit about the sb and really do like bolts in the deck, just not sure how to fit them.

[FourDogsinaHorseSuit]

yea i was trying to understand if i got those 3 exiled cards until my end step if i cast it on their end step.

You'll have them through their end step, but once you untap it's your turn and not theirs anymore so Act is over. To do the end-of-turn trick the card needs to say "until the beginning of the next end step" Compare the text to Through the Breech to see what I mean.

[mistercakes]

You'll have them through their end step, but once you untap it's your turn and not theirs anymore so Act is over. To do the end-of-turn trick the card needs to say "until the beginning of the next end step" Compare the text to Through the Breech to see what I mean.

yep that makes sense. that's what i feared! definitely doesn't make the cut then.

i goldfished that hazoret's build a bunch and i think the reforge is still a better build. the 61st card (scroll rack/desperate ritual) is great. scroll rack is a must answer when vs control decks and it smooths out the ancient tomb / no red source hands.

[Trigunner]

yep that makes sense. that's what i feared! definitely doesn't make the cut then.

i goldfished that hazoret's build a bunch and i think the reforge is still a better build. the 61st card (scroll rack/desperate ritual) is great. scroll rack is a must answer when vs control decks and it smooths out the ancient tomb / no red source hands.

Hi everyone.
I just made an account to comment about this deck. I really like how the deck plays, the decisions making and how powerful it is for a budget deck. I am still in the process of acquiring cards, but I have proxied the deck and tested it against friends.

Regarding the rules question, as a level 1 judge I want to confirm this. If you play Act on Impulse during the end step the cards are only availble til the end of that turn, not during the next.
Mister Cakes if you would take Act on Impulse out of the deck, what would you replace them with? I like the card, it interacts so well with many other cards in the deck, and I am not sure if Light up the Stage is better than it, probably not I think.
I also have a few questions about your choice to play 61 cards and about the deck in general. Do you not feel an impact on your mana with another nonland in the deck? I play 15 lands atm and it feels right, but a lot of lists have 14 lands. But then again I don't have LEDs.
And what's important to look for in a starting hand? Of course I want hands that have a good balance of lands, rituals and draw spells. But are there more subtle things about the mulligan and how important is it to have specific cards?

[Glass House]

Personally I'm interested in Light Up The Stage specifically because it lets you play the cards on your next turn. IMO the biggest downside of Act On Impulse (and of the deck in general) is that you cannot use it to sculpt your hand like you can with blue cantrips. When you cast Act you have to be able to use the cards immediately or else they are lost forever. LutS actually enables you to set up your next turn.

[mistercakes]

tbh i've used act on impulse as a "cantrip" many times. in this case it's most useful for digging for a land. the best part about AoI is late game, when you have a Ruby out and 3-4 lands, it can often mean game over for a blue deck who has already spent a lot of cards blocking your combo. scroll rack is also useful for playing the slow game.

to speak to trigunner's points (and thanks for joining):

also thanks for confirming on AoI. (i've been playing for a long time and remember the old shenanigans with waylay, so just wanted to make sure.)

if you would take Act on Impulse out of the deck, what would you replace them with?

my thoughts on this are probably if you are cutting AoI, then LED gets a lot worse. I would highly recommend trying out Josef's version which is using UR and adds brainstorm and ponder. You can very likely get away with just shock lands with this deck if you don't own volcanic islands, although any number of volcanic islands will be better than steam vents. (1 and 3 could be okay maybe).

I like the card, it interacts so well with many other cards in the deck, and I am not sure if Light up the Stage is better than it, probably not I think.

AoI is generally a lot better than Light up the Stage in testing. Having both in a single deck with LED is invaluable. My consistency for turn 2 kills has increased a bunch. (I haven't run numbers, but it's pretty solid.) If you do cut AoI and LED, I don't think that LutS makes the cut either.

I also have a few questions about your choice to play 61 cards and about the deck in general. Do you not feel an impact on your mana with another nonland in the deck? I play 15 lands atm and it feels right, but a lot of lists have 14 lands. But then again I don't have LEDs.

I enjoy playing 61 cards because I like 14 lands and would really like to go to 13, but I think it's safer to add the 47th non-land instead of cutting the 14th land. Sandstone Needle plays a pretty big role here in making sure your land drops can catch up a bit better. Also the Scroll Rack can make up for those awkward multiple Ancient Tomb hands as I've mentioned earlier.

And what's important to look for in a starting hand?

I think with this deck you really want a red land or Tomb+Petal in your opening 7. There's a few all in hands that would consistent of something like LED, LED, PiF, RoF, RoF, Seething Song, Burning Wish that you can maybe steal if you know your opponent isn't running FoW. (this would make 16 goblins on the play)

You can also keep the hands with Tomb + Scroll rack even though it's a bit risky if you don't have a 2nd mana source.

Of course I want hands that have a good balance of lands, rituals and draw spells. But are there more subtle things about the mulligan and how important is it to have specific cards?

I'll answer with some goldfishing hands:

Hand 1:
LED, LP, MTN, MTN, SN (sandstone needle), BW, PiF
(i'd keep on both play and draw)

Hand 2:
RtS, MM (manamorphose), LeD, SS, RM (ruby medallion), LutS, SN
(i think this is an easy keep, even though it's weak to wasteland it looks like a turn 2/3 kill (turn 2 if you draw a land, turn 3 if not).

Hand 3:
AoI, SS, BW, BW, BW, LutS, LP
(easy mull)

Hand 3.5
it mulled into:
LP, RoF, RoF, BR, LutS, LED.
(this is kind of tough, i would keep on the play vs an unknown opponent especially with the scry (the scry was Desperate Ritual which would scry to the bottom))

Hand 4:
SS, RM, LP, LED, BW, LutS, AT (Ancient Tomb)
(I'd keep this, although I think to play it safer you might just want to play Tomb -> RM and pass. Having two additional mana the following turn and another card should ensure a better chance of winning, although it does open you up to wasteland a bit.) On the draw vs a Thalia deck or a combo deck where speed matters maybe just go for it.

Hand 5:
LutS, MM, MM, RoF, AoI, RM, PiF
(pretty straight forward mulligan)

hand 5.5:
BW, BW, RM, BR, SN, LP
(i'd keep this, the scry was reforge the soul. I'd be pretty happy playing out SN and Petal here, then trying to miracle the following turn. If it gets countered you get an additional draw, so then just play it by ear.

Hand 6:
MM, MM, AoI, RtS, BW, SS, Mtn
(this is a tough one. on the draw I'd keep, but on the play it's pretty risky, I'd probably mull on the play.)

Hope this was somewhat helpful. Again if you don't have the LED's it's probably better to run the cantrip version, since this way you can reliably hit your 2nd and 3rd lands. Brainstorm and Ponder also set up Reforge rather well.

If you did want to run a Non-LED version without blue I'd probably try to max out on Ritual Effects (except keep 1 RoF in the sb).

You can try this in goldfishing and let me know how it goes:

// 60 Maindeck
// 8 Artifact
4 Lotus Petal
4 Ruby Medallion

// 1 Creature
1 Guttersnipe

// 12 Instant
4 Manamorphose
4 Seething Song
4 Desperate Ritual

// 14 Land
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Sandstone Needle
6 Mountain

// 25 Sorcery
3 Rite of Flame
4 Burning Wish
2 Past in Flames
4 Bonus Round
4 Act on Impulse
4 Light up the Stage
4 Reforge the Soul


// 10 Sideboard
// 3 Creature
SB: 3 Hope of Ghirapur


// 6 Sorcery
SB: 1 Tendrils of Agony
SB: 1 Grapeshot
SB: 1 Empty the Warrens
SB: 1 Past in Flames
SB: 1 Fiery Confluence
SB: 1 Hazoret's Undying Fury
SB: 1 Rite of Flame

5x whatever. you could also swap the guttersnipe spot for a Helm of Awakening, Lightning Bolt, or Scroll Rack. I think all 3 are fine. Maybe Helm could be good to help make up for lack of LED's.

you could also move 1 AoI to the sb, and run 2 helm of awakening. I'd give that a shot actually. Could be really fun. It's more all in, but I think with this list you can get away with it:

// 60 Maindeck
// 11 Artifact
4 Lotus Petal
4 Ruby Medallion
3 Helm of Awakening

// 12 Instant
4 Manamorphose
4 Seething Song
4 Desperate Ritual

// 14 Land
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Sandstone Needle
6 Mountain

// 23 Sorcery
3 Rite of Flame
4 Burning Wish
2 Past in Flames
4 Bonus Round
3 Act on Impulse
4 Light up the Stage
3 Reforge the Soul


// 15 Sideboard
// 2 Artifact
SB: 2 Tormod's Crypt

// 4 Creature
SB: 2 Hope of Ghirapur
SB: 2 Guttersnipe

// 9 Sorcery
SB: 1 Tendrils of Agony
SB: 1 Grapeshot
SB: 1 Empty the Warrens
SB: 1 Past in Flames
SB: 1 Fiery Confluence
SB: 1 Hazoret's Undying Fury
SB: 1 Rite of Flame
SB: 1 Act on Impulse
SB: 1 Reforge the Soul

(not sure if stage should be the sb card or not, i think aoi might be a better sb card as a wish target).

[ahg113]

Just for the heck of it, Commune with Lava is a thing. I still jam it in my version, Light up the Stage would be in addition to it, maybe replace it, but probably not. Commune with a Bonus Round gets ridiculous, and really feels like Ad Nauseam on steriods.

I've greatly enjoyed Guttersnipe in times gone by, but they've been replaced by Lightning Bolts. I dislike turning on creature removal, and there's so much of it, some of it specific to critters. Why turn those cards on? I'm likely to add Sandstone Needle, tried them on Cockatrice and enjoyed them.

MD - Ruby Storm - Lightning Bonus
4 Ruby Medallion
4 Lotus Petal
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Seething Song
4 Manamorphose
2 Lightning Bolt
3 Commune with Lava
10 Mountain
4 Ancient Tomb
1 Past in Flames
4 Rite of Flame
4 Act on Impulse
4 Burning Wish
2 Faithless Looting
2 Overmaster
3 Bonus Round
1 Fiery Confluence

SB
3 Defense Grid
1 Past in Flames
1 Reforge the Soul
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 By Force
1 Cave-In
1 Shattering Spree
1 Chain Lightning
1 Banefire
1 Bonus Round
1 Empty the Warrens
1 Grapeshot
1 Fiery Confluence

[JosefK]

@ahg113
For me the by far most wished for card in my sideboard is rite of flame #4. I have such hard time seeing how the deck can work without it, so i am intrigued how it seemingly does work for some.
One very common line for me is:
Seething song -> bonus round -> manamorphose -> burning wish for RoF + PiF, cast them, replay RoF SS Bonus round manamorphose for 4 cards and 8 mana. Without additional useful cards in hand what can you get in that situation?
If i have desperate ritual instead of manamorphose i just get RoF and Hazoret.
Having RoF in the sideboard makes a bonus rounded burning wish into a wincondition if you have at least 3 mana (3 mana gets you a Empty). Do you never get in that situation?

Another thing entirely but I've been thinking about the hard matchups lately and that they all get hosed pretty good by Chalice of the void. As i play 11 1 drops i don't think i can run it, but if i were forced to play mono red, i would definitely consider running 4. Stops discard/spell pierce/surgical as well as stopping cantripping and makes it really hard for BR-reanimator to get a creature to the graveyard. Man, i think i talked myself into playing it even with the blue splash!

[mistercakes]

I tried chalice a little bit in the beginning when I was running Chandra, but the deck has evolved a bit since then!

Feel free to try it out. I suppose a turn 1 chalice steals enough games. A storm deck that can maindeck chalice could be good, but would need more testing.

Not sure what I would cut for them though. (should be worth noting that it's not very useful with a resolved bonus round.)

[ahg113]

@ahg113
For me the by far most wished for card in my sideboard is rite of flame #4. I have such hard time seeing how the deck can work without it, so i am intrigued how it seemingly does work for some.
One very common line for me is:
Seething song -> bonus round -> manamorphose -> burning wish for RoF + PiF, cast them, replay RoF SS Bonus round manamorphose for 4 cards and 8 mana. Without additional useful cards in hand what can you get in that situation?
If i have desperate ritual instead of manamorphose i just get RoF and Hazoret.
Having RoF in the sideboard makes a bonus rounded burning wish into a wincondition if you have at least 3 mana (3 mana gets you a Empty). Do you never get in that situation?

Another thing entirely but I've been thinking about the hard matchups lately and that they all get hosed pretty good by Chalice of the void. As i play 11 1 drops i don't think i can run it, but if i were forced to play mono red, i would definitely consider running 4. Stops discard/spell pierce/surgical as well as stopping cantripping and makes it really hard for BR-reanimator to get a creature to the graveyard. Man, i think i talked myself into playing it even with the blue splash!

There's a big difference in playing a blue splash or not. By flipping over so many cards with Act or Commune, I can often over power with mana not needing the 4th RoF in the board. Plus there's LED to help the mana fixing as needed.

Red Storm and Purple Storm feel like very different concepts about threat density versus proactive/reactive interaction. I often play this deck passively until I feel I have the nuts to just win. Small exception if I can parlay a decent Commune (~4/5 cards) to untap with sufficient lands and a ruby the following turn.

[FourDogsinaHorseSuit]

There's a big difference in playing a blue splash or not. By flipping over so many cards with Act or Commune, I can often over power with mana not needing the 4th RoF in the board. Plus there's LED to help the mana fixing as needed.

Red Storm and Purple Storm feel like very different concepts about threat density versus proactive/reactive interaction. I often play this deck passively until I feel I have the nuts to just win. Small exception if I can parlay a decent Commune (~4/5 cards) to untap with sufficient lands and a ruby the following turn.

Amethyst Storm for those using the Ruby Storm nomenclature.

[JosefK]

There's a big difference in playing a blue splash or not. By flipping over so many cards with Act or Commune, I can often over power with mana not needing the 4th RoF in the board. Plus there's LED to help the mana fixing as needed.

Red Storm and Purple Storm feel like very different concepts about threat density versus proactive/reactive interaction. I often play this deck passively until I feel I have the nuts to just win. Small exception if I can parlay a decent Commune (~4/5 cards) to untap with sufficient lands and a ruby the following turn.

At least in Purple storm i feel like playing passively is great in some matchups, like delver and grixis control, maybe miracles. But vs other combo and creature decks i really like to be able to win before they can play the hate/them winning. How is your combo matchup? It seems like vieko also like to play the more passive game, but he is at least packing 3 Scab-Clan Berserker in his sideboard.
Also without Reforge and with only one maindeck PiF, don't you have problems vs discard when playing passively?

Not questioning just to question your choices, i'm genuinely interested in other ways to play the deck and hopefully be able to learn things :)

So far this year i'm actually 16-2 in matches, it feels great! Even tho a lot of wins come from pretty good matchups.

[mistercakes]

been having a lot of fun with this one.


// 60 Maindeck
// 12 Artifact
4 Lotus Petal
4 Ruby Medallion
4 Helm of Awakening

// 11 Instant
4 Manamorphose
4 Seething Song
3 Desperate Ritual

// 13 Land
4 Ancient Tomb
3 Sandstone Needle
6 Mountain

// 24 Sorcery
3 Rite of Flame
4 Burning Wish
2 Past in Flames
4 Bonus Round
4 Act on Impulse
4 Light up the Stage
3 Hazoret’s Undying Fury


// 15 Sideboard
// 2 Artifact
SB: 2 Tormod’s Crypt

// 2 Creature
SB: 2 Guttersnipe

// 3 Instant
SB: 3 Pyroblast

// 8 Sorcery
SB: 1 Tendrils of Agony
SB: 1 Grapeshot
SB: 1 Empty the Warrens
SB: 1 Past in Flames
SB: 1 Fiery Confluence
SB: 1 Hazoret’s Undying Fury
SB: 1 Rite of Flame
SB: 1 Reforge the Soul


https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/695861#paper
(also cheaper than an underground sea or a volcanic island)

if the 13 lands worries you, just run 61 with the last sandstone needle.

[mistercakes]

i think i've been a bit too greedy with the manabase. been goldfishing more and this seems a bit more reasonable.

i played my last list at my weekly and went 2-2.

2-1 white bomerman (i think ruby is favored here)
1-2 miracles (mulled to oblivion game 1, game 3 i think i probably played too conservatively.
2-1 loam pox
0-2 ANT (kept a bad draw game 1 and game 2 i reforged into lands and rituals)

something that kept coming up was always being either mana screwed or close to mana screwed. i think the only way to get around this is to have enough initial red sources.


// 60 Maindeck
// 12 Artifact
4 Lotus Petal
4 Ruby Medallion
4 Lion's Eye Diamond

// 3 Creature
3 Simian Spirit Guide

// 10 Instant
4 Manamorphose
4 Seething Song
2 Desperate Ritual

// 14 Land
3 Ancient Tomb
7 Mountain
4 Sandstone Needle

// 21 Sorcery
3 Rite of Flame
4 Burning Wish
2 Past in Flames
4 Act on Impulse
4 Bonus Round
2 Hazoret's Undying Fury
2 Light up the Stage


// 15 Sideboard
// 2 Artifact
SB: 2 Tormod's Crypt

// 5 Creature
SB: 3 Scab-Clan Berserker
SB: 2 Guttersnipe

// 8 Sorcery
SB: 1 Tendrils of Agony
SB: 1 Grapeshot
SB: 1 Empty the Warrens
SB: 1 Past in Flames
SB: 1 Fiery Confluence
SB: 1 Hazoret's Undying Fury
SB: 1 Reforge the Soul
SB: 1 Rite of Flame


a main benefit of simian spirit guide is that you can more easily run scab-clan berserker. it's up to you if you want to play it, but it can be rather good, especially in the storm/reanimator matchup. because of the spirit guides, you also might consider running some empty the warrens in that spot. it can steal a lot of wins vs the fair decks and more importantly against the delver decks. there's also a chance you want 1 mizzix's mastery. when you have burning wish with bonus round and only R available, it might be able to find you some critical cards in your graveyard. (keep in mind the spells that come out of your graveyard do not get copies, only mizzix's mastery gets copied.

[Trigunner]

Thanks to everyone for all the help and decklists provided. Couldn't test anything yet really, didn't get to play much. But a friendly local player said he has a playset of LEDs and would lend me them for tournaments.

And about Scab-Clan Berseker. Is it really that good vs Reanimator? Seems to me like it wouldn't do that much after they have reanimated a threat? Sorry if this question seems stupid but I am pretty unfamiliar with the format atm. I am working on that though.


keep in mind the spells that come out of your graveyard do not get copies, only mizzix's mastery gets copied.
This is not true. Mizzix Mastery allows you to cast the copies and the effect of Bonus rounds triggers for spells cast. The spells that you cast with Mizzix's Mastery do get copied.

[mistercakes]

Oh if that's true about Mizzix's and bonus round then it gets a lot better.

You still can play Tormod's Crypt (as I do) or run other graveyard hate to actually hate against the grave itself. However playing scab clan on turn 1 really puts reanimator in a very awkward place. If you have a nut draw of Crypt + this guy, I think you're a heavy favorite.

[mistercakes]

been tinkering around with the deck (as usual)


// 60 Maindeck
// 12 Artifact
4 Lotus Petal
4 Ruby Medallion
4 Lion's Eye Diamond

// 3 Creature
3 Simian Spirit Guide

// 11 Instant
4 Manamorphose
4 Seething Song
2 Desperate Ritual
1 Intuition

// 13 Land
2 Ancient Tomb
7 Mountain
4 Sandstone Needle

// 21 Sorcery
3 Rite of Flame
4 Burning Wish
2 Past in Flames
4 Act on Impulse
4 Bonus Round
3 Light up the Stage
1 Hazoret's Undying Fury


// 15 Sideboard
// 2 Artifact
SB: 2 Tormod's Crypt

// 4 Creature
SB: 2 Scab-Clan Berserker
SB: 2 Guttersnipe

// 9 Sorcery
SB: 1 Tendrils of Agony
SB: 1 Grapeshot
SB: 1 Empty the Warrens
SB: 1 Past in Flames
SB: 1 Fiery Confluence
SB: 1 Hazoret's Undying Fury
SB: 1 Reforge the Soul
SB: 1 Rite of Flame
SB: 1 Mizzix's Mastery


found a nice addition. intuition

besides playing a past in flames deck where it already has some value. it can also end step get RoF, which will function as a massive ritual effect the following turn.

what is really interesting here is the ability to work with bonus round:

take this play for example:

seething song + bonus round + manamorphose + intuition -> get RoF, RoF, RoF. for the copy get Burning Wish X3. even without Ruby Medallion the Rite of Flame will still give 8 mana. Then you can cast Burning Wish for any combination of cards to win the game.

I am sold on a singleton, even in a copy where there are no blue lands. I'm not 100% sold on the Hazoret's yet, it might be a lightning bolt or empty the warrens. rest of the deck hasn't been so clunky. i think the blue version can get away with reforge a lot better than the red version, as the miracle is more reliable.

i think the blue version should also play some non-zero number of intuition.

[GAMEster52]

Hi, what do you think of the new 'electrodominance' ?

It could be worth testing. Could be wincon, removal or the possibility to play burning wish at instant speed.

With wheel of date you get a two Mana wheel plus two storm.

[mistercakes]

It's okay and I wouldn't rule it out completely, but I'd probably rather run bolt if I'm looking for direct damage. The suspend wheel is interesting with it, and would allow for a slightly different deck. I would consider running 4 of that and 4 lotus blossom to help get more payoff but I think it would end up worse.

[mistercakes]

tested a bunch more and am even more happy with intuition.


// 60 Maindeck
// 12 Artifact
4 Lotus Petal
4 Ruby Medallion
4 Lion's Eye Diamond

// 3 Creature
3 Simian Spirit Guide

// 13 Instant
4 Manamorphose
4 Seething Song
2 Desperate Ritual
3 Intuition

// 14 Land
2 Ancient Tomb
4 Sandstone Needle
2 Volcanic Island
3 Bloodstained Mire
1 Scalding Tarn
2 Mountain

// 18 Sorcery
3 Rite of Flame
4 Burning Wish
2 Past in Flames
4 Act on Impulse
4 Bonus Round
1 Hazoret's Undying Fury


// 15 Sideboard
// 2 Artifact
SB: 2 Tormod's Crypt

// 4 Creature
SB: 2 Scab-Clan Berserker
SB: 2 Guttersnipe

// 9 Sorcery
SB: 1 Tendrils of Agony
SB: 1 Grapeshot
SB: 1 Empty the Warrens
SB: 1 Past in Flames
SB: 1 Fiery Confluence
SB: 1 Hazoret's Undying Fury
SB: 1 Reforge the Soul
SB: 1 Rite of Flame
SB: 1 Mizzix's Mastery

[JosefK]

I do think electrodominance have potential. But I think that you need to build around it, probably using wheel, ancestral visions, lotus, and as foretold. I think the end result will be a completely different deck.

I'm taking a small break from the deck. But will probably be back to grinding in a week or two.

[Trigunner]

I think the same about Electrodominance. If not used to cheat on the suspend cards it costs to much mana imho.

And Intuition is a really great fit for the deck, I am suprised that it wasn't discussed before. But goddamn do I hate the reserved list...

[mistercakes]

i think there's a good chance mystic retrieval could be played as a singleton over hazoret's.

if you have 1 colorless remaining after bonus round + intuition, you can do the following.

get 3 LED, get mystic retrieval + burning wish + rite of flame.

oppo gives you LED + anything. flashback retrieval leaving R open. get back RoF + Burning Wish. cast both. wish for RoF + Hazoret's. (however if you had something else in your graveyard like a manamorphose you could just get past in flames and then win with that (past in flames, RoF, bonus round, RoF, manamorphose, intuition -> 3x burning wish + 3x + 3x +3x.)

seems good to me? is it better than maindeck hazoret's, not sure.

[Mr. Safety]

If Memory Jar were unbanned, would anyone play it in this deck? It's a colorless Reforge the Soul that can be put back into play with Goblin Welder or Trash for Treasure, swapping a Lotus Petal/Ruby Medallion/Helm of Awakening for another 7 cards. It is likely you would draw into another Ruby/Helm or at least enough mana to obviate it.

Just curious, I don't think Memory Jar will be unbanned, but it's an interesting thought experiment. Trash for Treasure could double up as a way to have an alternative win condition like Platinum Emperion or Inkwell Leviathan. Makes Faithless Looting much better in the deck as well.

[ronco]

I would think the deck would look very different if jar was worked in.

Reducers would switch to helm from ruby, there is no artifact recursion in the builds people have been posting, and it doesn't get a doubling effect from bonus round, like the other "draw" spells do, all like you mentioned but could be changed to make it so.

Regarding welder decks, I don't recall what their strategy was. Burn, Storm, or brown stompy are all viable with a t1 welder and jar combo (provided you could loot it somehow as well). But as far as what they accomplished after doing so, no clue. Back then, I THINK it was something like workshops, welder, juggernaut, su-chi, sundering titan, and maybe some of those colosus cards (platinum emperion, etc). Mayeb that was after jar got banned, it was too long ago and too many beers ago to remember!

[mistercakes]

Jar will never be unbanned. :)

[Mr. Safety]

Jar will never be unbanned. :)

Because...? I can understand that it was dangerous at one time, but we can all agree it's pathetic in comparison to Griselbrand, Ad Nauseam, and Past in Flames as far as enabling combo decks. It's just a colorless Reforge the Soul that can sometimes be put back into play with something like Trash for Treasure, Goblin Welder, or Second Sunrise.

I mean, what broken things does it do? I can't think of anything that isn't worse than what is already available in the format.

[Lammina]

Guys, if we are discussing versions that arent Mono Red, isnt better open a new thread? Because, in my mind, "Ruby storm" is a mono red deck, right?

[JosefK]

I've considered writing a primer on UR-storm, and considered starting a new thread, lazyness/lack of time has stopped me, and i have not really felt the need. Is it really needed?
Regarding the Jar discussion i think that could probably better be discussed in the B/R thread. But Jar is not a colorless reforge. It has 2 big upsides,1) you pay now, but don't have to sacrifice it until next turn when you untapped your lands and 2) your opponent never gets to use the cards in his main phase.

[mistercakes]

Guys, if we are discussing versions that arent Mono Red, isnt better open a new thread? Because, in my mind, "Ruby storm" is a mono red deck, right?

i don't think it's that important. the deck ran probes for a huge amount of time. if there's a version with 8 cantrips, then who cares. =P lots of info in the thread and easier to search this way.

(also the name of the thread was changed from mono red storm to ruby storm for these kinds of reasons over a year ago.)

[Lammina]

i don't think it's that important. the deck ran probes for a huge amount of time. if there's a version with 8 cantrips, then who cares. =P lots of info in the thread and easier to search this way.

(also the name of the thread was changed from mono red storm to ruby storm for these kinds of reasons over a year ago.)

Ok then!

[JosefK]

Even if the decks play quite a bit different, we mostly discuss card choices anyways, and every card that could be relevant for mono red could probably be relevant for UR as well :)

I'm currently testing intuition again. I'm a bit torn, it is great sometimes, and when I say great I don't mean in situations where every card would be great, i mean in unique situations. Had one game where I was a bit flooded and had a ruby out and a seething song in hand and my blue opponent was hellbent and I topdecked intuition into a win.
Then on the other hand I had a game where I was discarded down to hellbent with 3 lands in play and drew intuition. There is not a lot of good targets then. Ponder is probably the best but still felt a bit lacking. If only wizards would print a ritual with flashback :)

New set been out for a couple of days on mtgo, anyone had any luck with luts? @Vieko?

[compacta_d]

Hey guys. Don't have leds for the deck anymore but still think about stuff.

How about testing Gutshot in conjunction with Light up the Stage and Bonus Round builds.

Probe was obviously great in the deck, yeah guy shot doesn't cantrip, but it does turn on Spectacle. With active bonus rounds it becomes bolts, or in case of those states ppl love to screenshot, becomes free grapeshot.

Free spells are great for storm count anyways. Just food for thought. Have fun!

[Mr. Safety]

Hey guys. Don't have leds for the deck anymore but still think about stuff.

How about testing Gutshot in conjunction with Light up the Stage and Bonus Round builds.

Probe was obviously great in the deck, yeah guy shot doesn't cantrip, but it does turn on Spectacle. With active bonus rounds it becomes bolts, or in case of those states ppl love to screenshot, becomes free grapeshot.

Free spells are great for storm count anyways. Just food for thought. Have fun!

Even though it isn't free I think Lightning Bolt in some number is better than Gut Shot, for it's interaction with Bonus Round alone. I've been reading good things about Light up the Stage in other decks (burn, UR Delver) so I think it really was the card we were looking for.

[mistercakes]

it is a very good card for the deck. i'm not sure if it needs the damage factor to be playable, it is playable on its own. the best enablers for it are easily lightning bolt, and to a lesser extent guttersnipe.

if you wanted to run another enabler, i would probably focus on some kind of creature that can attack, but it's likely not needed.

i'm still jamming intuition with goldfishing, and will test it over the next few weeks when i have time. the more i play this deck the less i want to play it at weeklies. the main reason is that i really enjoy a lot of the interaction of paper mtg, and this is a goldfish kind of deck.

once i am finally back on a PC though i look forward to playing it on modo. (and of course the occasional paper event)

[Mr. Safety]

I agree on Light up the Stage being good even without the Spectacle cost. I pre-ordered a set, once they get here I will tweak my list test it out. I really like the Guttersnipe plan with this card, but I will be trying maindeck Lightning Bolts first, Guttersnipe sideboard. I have the Gut Shots handy as well, if that becomes a simply more efficient way to deal damage in the long run. A 'free' enabler might be necessary, and I like that it kills Thalia even though it costs 1 and 2 life.

Test list:

4x Ruby Medallion
3x Rite of Flame
4x Seething Song
4x Lotus Petal
4x Desperate Ritual
4x Manamorphose

4x Light up the Stage
4x Act on Impulse
4x Lightning Bolt
1x Hazoret’s Undying Fury
4x Burning Wish
2x Past in Flames
4x Bonus Round

10x Mountain
4x Ancient Tomb

Sidebaord
1x Rite of Flame
1x Past in Flames
1x Empty the Warrens
1x Grapeshot
1x Pyroclasm
1x Tendrils of Agony
1x By Force
1x Reforge the Soul
3x Guttersnipe
2x Scab-Clan Berserker
2x Pyroblast


I ended up cutting the Reforge the Souls for Light up the Stage, along with 1x Hazorets. I don't see any real reason to put Bonus Round in my sideboard, but I don't have any experience with it. I am looking to see what Lightning Bolt can do with Bonus Round. I really haven't spent any time on the deck since Bonus Round was printed.

[Mr. Safety]

if you wanted to run another enabler, i would probably focus on some kind of creature that can attack, but it's likely not needed.

I feel that Scab-Clan Berserker out of the board fits this bill as a line of play, especially considering it gets triggered from cantrips.

[mistercakes]

I agree on Light up the Stage being good even without the Spectacle cost. I pre-ordered a set, once they get here I will tweak my list test it out. I really like the Guttersnipe plan with this card, but I will be trying maindeck Lightning Bolts first, Guttersnipe sideboard. I have the Gut Shots handy as well, if that becomes a simply more efficient way to deal damage in the long run. A 'free' enabler might be necessary, and I like that it kills Thalia even though it costs 1 and 2 life.

Test list:

4x Ruby Medallion
1x Helm of Awakening
3x Rite of Flame
4x Seething Song
4x Lotus Petal
4x Desperate Ritual
4x Manamorphose

4x Light up the Stage
4x Act on Impulse
4x Lightning Bolt
1x Hazoret’s Undying Fury
4x Burning Wish
2x Past in Flames
3x Bonus Round

10x Mountain
4x Crystal Vein

Sidebaord
1x Rite of Flame
1x Past in Flames
1x Empty the Warrens
1x Grapeshot
1x Pyroclasm
1x Tendrils of Agony
1x By Force
1x Reforge the Soul
3x Guttersnipe
2x Scab-Clan Berserker
2x Pyroblast


I ended up cutting the Reforge the Souls for Light up the Stage, along with 1x Hazorets. I don't see any real reason to put Bonus Round in my sideboard, but I don't have any experience with it. I am looking to see what Lightning Bolt can do with Bonus Round. I really haven't spent any time on the deck since Bonus Round was printed.

4 bonus round, 3 bolt and plz upgrade to ancient tomb. Not so expensive with masters!

The turn 1 rock, turn 2 seething song is a very important play.

[Mr. Safety]

I altered an old list I have on file, but I forgot to change the lands. Doh! I have indeed changed over to AT.

Thanks for the note.

EDIT: fixed the list. I shaved an Act on Impulse to get the 4th Bonus Round in, both are 3 mana, and I want to test with 4 bolts before I trim down to 3.

[mistercakes]

I altered an old list I have on file, but I forgot to change the lands. Doh! I have indeed changed over to AT.

Thanks for the note.

EDIT: fixed the list. I shaved an Act on Impulse to get the 4th Bonus Round in, both are 3 mana, and I want to test with 4 bolts before I trim down to 3.

i'd cut the helm instead of the 4th aoi.

plays like bonus round + any ramp spell + aoi are the reason the red version can do well.

[Mr. Safety]

i'd cut the helm instead of the 4th aoi.

plays like bonus round + any ramp spell + aoi are the reason the red version can do well.

Gotcha! Thanks again.

[Tall_George]

Fellow folks storming,

I've been in the tank with the LuTS for a while now. I made proxies and had been play testing it like a few others. I was very impressed with the card and now have moved to this list. I'm going to play it in my local weekly as is and tweek it for back to back 1k events this weekend....

Artifact: 14
4 Ruby
2 Helm
4 LED
4 lotus Petal

Instant: 8
4 Morohose
4 Seething Song

Sorcery: 24
4 Rite
4 Act
3 LuTS
4 Reforge
4 Wish
2 Bonus Round
2 Past in Flames
1 Empty the Warrens

Land: 14
5 Fetch Land
4 Ancient Tomb
5 Mountain

Wish Board:
Pif
Grapeshot
Fiery Confluence
Empty
Bonus Round
Tendrils
Mizzix's Mastery

Other Board
Shattering Spree
Cave-in
3 Surgical
3 Defense Grid

So far in gold fishing it seems really powerful. Every early turn has must counter plays for our opponents. I plan on riding this pile all weekend, counting to 10 along the way.








Sent from my CLT-L04 using Tapatalk

[mistercakes]

Best of luck, let us know how it goes.

[mistercakes]

Tall George, how'd it go?

Also, current maindeck:

// 60 Maindeck
// 12 Artifact
4 Lotus Petal
4 Ruby Medallion
4 Lion's Eye Diamond

// 2 Creature
2 Simian Spirit Guide

// 13 Instant
4 Manamorphose
4 Seething Song
2 Desperate Ritual
3 Intuition

// 14 Land
2 Ancient Tomb
4 Sandstone Needle
2 Volcanic Island
3 Bloodstained Mire
1 Scalding Tarn
2 Mountain

// 19 Sorcery
3 Rite of Flame
4 Burning Wish
2 Past in Flames
4 Act on Impulse
4 Bonus Round
2 Hazoret's Undying Fury

also tempted to run a singleton mizzix's mastery in the maindeck only for this line: seething song -> bonus round -> manamorphose -> mizzix's mastery. it would take 1 of the hazoret's. not sure if it's worth it.

i think understanding how many outs the deck has is pretty important from seething song -> bonus round - > manamorphose (with no additional mana):

act on impulse: need to hit an LED/LP/RoF + some business spell in the 6 cards.
intuition: as long as no RoF have been used, can win on the spot
burning wish: need R to get RoF and Mizzix's Mastery -> target bonus round and manamorphose to draw 4 cards and 8 mana.
hazoret's in hand: requires you to draw a ritual effect off of the manamorphose (another manamorphose will also work)
past in flames: another mana source is needed here
another manamorphose: draws 2 more and sets you at 6 mana.

(15 (18 with manamorphose) outs, 8 require a little more mana).

if you replace the initial manamoprhose with a desperate ritual:

burning wish is probably the best card here. fetching mizzix's mastery and hazoret's. (cast mizzix, target bonus round and desperate, getting 12 mana and casting hazoret's (4 copies).
act on impulse will leave you with 3 remaining and you have 6 cards to find something.
hazoret's will flip 8 cards and you're likely to win here as well.

if you replace the initial manamorphose with burning wish:

having LED in hand will end most games, getting Rite of Flame and Hazoret's for 8 cards.

there's another subset of outs with blue mana and intuition after bonus round, but things can get a little complex. best to just play them out yourself and see what you can do.

[Tall_George]

Got home from Seattle late last night, I'll write a full weekend tournament report. Quickly though. Light Up the Stage is a house. Renaming my list to Light Up the Storm.

Sent from my CLT-L04 using Tapatalk

[mistercakes]

Got home from Seattle late last night, I'll write a full weekend tournament report. Quickly though. Light Up the Stage is a house. Renaming my list to Light Up the Storm.

Sent from my CLT-L04 using Tapatalk

nice! exciting to hear it.

[JosefK]

Got home from Seattle late last night, I'll write a full weekend tournament report. Quickly though. Light Up the Stage is a house. Renaming my list to Light Up the Storm.

Sent from my CLT-L04 using Tapatalk

I look forward to the report!

[Lammina]

I look forward to the report!
Me too!

[Tall_George]

Coming in Hot...

Decklist as follows

Artifact: 14
4 Ruby
2 Helm
4 LED
4 lotus Petal

Instant: 8
4 Morophose
4 Seething Song

Sorcery: 24
4 Rite
4 Act
3 LuTS
4 Reforge
4 Wish
2 Bonus Round
2 Past in Flames
1 Empty the Warrens

Land: 14
5 Fetch Land
4 Ancient Tomb
5 Mountain

Wish Board:
Pif
Grapeshot
Fiery Confluence
Empty
Bonus Round
Tendrils
Haz Undying Fury(I still hate this card)

Other Board
Shattering Spree
Cave-in
3 Surgical
3 Defense Grid

I played 6 rounds on Saturday and 7 rounds on Sunday. The long and short of the back to back 1k event goes like this. Spectacle is nice but really in my list I'm fine paying the 2r cost for Light up the stage. Mostly i cast it for 1r with a reducer effect. The deck was much more consistent on T1-T2 kill attempts. I even mulled to 5 and killed T2. I went 3-3 on Sat after getting ranched on coverage round 1 by a Maverick player from my home town. Drive 4 hours to get beat in friendly fire on stream, match 1.

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/370300924?t=00h04m13s

He gets the nuts game 1 and then has more hate game 2, but hey, my lands look killer!

I quickly overwhelm a Pteramander/Delver burn player in r2 to keep the dream alive then get housed by a bug control player. G1 I mull to 5, he TS me on the play and takes petal leaving me with no r source and a tomb. He kills me with Snappy and Jitte and that is it. He resolves leo g12into my empty hand and I top deck the Reforge the Soul. I am able to mini storm off next turn with a bonus round into light up the stage after he Force pitches and looses life, but it is not enough and he kills me.

Now im 1-2 and unlikely to make top 8 but we keep it going.

R4, I got the pair down to an 0-3 and my opponent concedes, we play it out and he is on a grixis delver shell that kills me with an angler after having all of the counter magic. I get the kill g2 after cracking led to pay for a fluster targeting an act, I have 1 mana floating hit RoF, wish and seething song, and am able to flashback pif in the bin which was in my hand in order to go off and kill him with tendrill's. G3 we both mull to 5 and he edges me out after fow my seething song i had to tap out for with a bonus round resolved. Im 2-2

R5, I Turn 2 made a bunch of goblins on a miracles player who mulled to 6 game 1. He takes 12 then scoops next turn. I am able to resolve a t1 defense grid g2 and go off t3. Deck is feeling gas!
3-2 but my breakers are bad, no t8 but i stick around and play r 6

R6, VS Burn. Game1 t2 Eidolon, nuts me. G2 i Make goblins on t3, G3 he has the pillar and I die to my own spells.
3-3 drop


I noticed not many Graveyard decks in the first day 1k, so I make the call to cut Hazzoret's and swap in the 4th surgical for day 2 figuring a few people might swap decks. :NARRATORS VOCIE: "He was right 4, dredge players on Sunday." I was able to bait my opponent into turning on spectacle for me a few times. LUtS is awesome for 1. I wish I would have brought a 4th copy in for Sunday or maybe ran the 4th one in the board. I do miss the Reforge the Soul wish board slot. Found that G2 putting a RoF and Reforge in for Surgical to be a pretty good.

Sunday was a much worse day for me...

R1 G1, Mull to 4, opponent goes Underground Sea, Duress. Takes ruby leaving me with tomb, petal, wish. I draw MTN. He plays a land and cast 2nd duress, takes wish. I'm pretty much dead. I stopped taking notes, but he for sure killed me in 2.

0-1

R2 G1, Dude is playing enchantress. I can not beat a resolved Solitary Confinement. I scoop after he resolves in G1 and then, I deck myself in G 2 buy casting a Reforge with bonus round, bonus round, bonus round. My opponent has a solitary again. I contemplate splashing a single volc and Lab man!
0-2

R3 I trounce a POX player in short order, both game 1 and 2 take less than 15 min. G1 I make 12 goblins t1 he hangs on for a bit but they overwhelm him. g2 on the draw mull to 5, and boy howdy is it a keeper! Tomb, Helm, Petal, Petal, Ruby Medallion, I know my t2 top deck was a Reforge and I win. I walk around the corner for pizza.
1-2

R4, My opponent is a known lands player. I smash g1 with 10 goblins on t2 and they scoop it up. G2 and G3 t1 Sphere's and I fight around it, but eventually die to 20/20.
1-3

R5 Paired against one of my weekly players in Vancouver. Known to be on DNT. I'm pretty out of it and play bad. They kill me. I also kind of don't mind keeping my opponent guessing the lines i might have, even though i miss-play.
1-4

My buylist is ready and I buy more dual lands, I feel better.

R6 Played against nyx fit. We know how this goes. but a t1 grapeshot for 8 and 18 goblins is a hell of a play. He scoops. I get the T1 in paper!!!!
G2 I can't remember exact details and did not take notes. I'm pretty sure he resolved a leo and I killed with a chain of Act on Impules/ Light up the stage in the mid game.
2-4

R7 Mono R Prison. I get crushed g1 after mulling deep and keeping a 1 lander, only to see 0 lands over 5 turns. G2 He knows I'm not on burn but sideboards poorly and I kill with a grapeshot. Rouge decks! It doesn't matter at all but he resolves T2 Three ball and I can not get out from under it.
2-5 over the weekend.

I am an poor pilot of the deck at best. I am learning more every match. I will continue to grind games with the list I played. We have another HighStakes 1K event on Feb 9th. Getting into the groove of counting to 10.

I do miss the MB bolts and would really like a way to fit them in, Maybe even going back to the chain lightning in the sideboard with 1 main deck instead of the MD empty for g1, then swapping to more MD bolts as needed for g3. Getting to bolt a Teeg is really awesome.

Cheers,
George

[JosefK]

Thanks for the report!
When decking yourself vs solitary confinement. Did you really have more cards in your library than enchantress?
A cool trick to do against cards like confinement/glacial chasm is to board in 1 surgical, play to get it in the graveyard and past in flames. Then cast as many bonus rounds as possible and a reforge. Let 2-4 reforge resolve and then surgical as many cards as possible before letting the rest of the reforges resolve.
I've done it once in my ~2000 games with the deck so it's not really a main strategy of the deck, but still cool :)

[mistercakes]

I think it depends on your approach with the deck. If you don't mind being a bit slower, you can try vieko's approach. I'm not sure he's had time to test yet, but likes running guttersnipe and bolt maindeck along with light up the stage.

You won't have so many all in kind of turns, but you will likely be a pretty consistent turn 3/4 deck.

AFAIK he does not like bonus round, and tried to minimize randomness by not running Hazoret's or Reforge.

You can also try the red + intuition build I've put together. You could cut 1 intuition and 2 hazoret's for 3 light up the stage.

This would mean you have

4 act
3 light
2 intuition
4 wish
4 bonus round

It doesn't run Reforge as it's not really necessary. I think that Josef and I are both pretty sure that Reforge isn't very good after game 1, although it's very good during game 1.

Youll have to play with numbers and adapt to your metagame. Playing well with this deck is hard, and you'll have to master it when going into matches with the blue decks.

Maybe vs blue decks having more maindeck empty is a better idea as well. Then bonus round isn't as good.

The game 1 %'s of this deck are very good.
the post SB %'s of this deck can be much worse (even going from 60+% down to 40%.

It might make more sense to have some matchups slightly worse game 1 and have a better maindeck intended for those grindy matchups and lose a little speed.
Then the sb can be more dedicated to hedge even more against those decks post sb. Can also have some heavier hate for the combo matchups.

What might this deck look like?

The 3 main contenders for maindeck resiliency would likely be:

lightning bolt
guttersnipe
empty the warrens

how many of these would we need to have moderately less successful game 1, but allow us to have more flex spots in the sb?

[mistercakes]

to follow up:

// 60 Maindeck
// 12 Artifact
4 Lotus Petal
4 Ruby Medallion
4 Lion's Eye Diamond

// 2 Creature
2 Guttersnipe

// 10 Instant
4 Manamorphose
4 Seething Song
2 Lightning Bolt

// 15 Land
2 Ancient Tomb
9 Mountain
4 Sandstone Needle

// 21 Sorcery
4 Rite of Flame
4 Burning Wish
2 Past in Flames
4 Act on Impulse
2 Bonus Round
4 Light Up the Stage
1 Empty the Warrens


// 15 Sideboard
// 4 Enchantment
SB: 4 Leyline of the Void

// 2 Instant
SB: 2 Abrade

// 9 Sorcery
SB: 1 Tendrils of Agony
SB: 1 Grapeshot
SB: 1 Empty the Warrens
SB: 1 Past in Flames
SB: 1 Fiery Confluence
SB: 1 Hazoret's Undying Fury
SB: 1 Reforge the Soul
SB: 1 Mizzix's Mastery
SB: 1 Bonus Round

(example for reanimator meta)

for storm meta leyline could be something like tormod's crypt, or scab-clan berserkers.
for more blue meta, maybe include more empty the warrens.

i tried defense grids a lot, and i'm not happy with them.

[Lammina]

to follow up:

// 60 Maindeck
// 12 Artifact
4 Lotus Petal
4 Ruby Medallion
4 Lion's Eye Diamond

// 2 Creature
2 Guttersnipe

// 10 Instant
4 Manamorphose
4 Seething Song
2 Lightning Bolt

// 15 Land
2 Ancient Tomb
9 Mountain
4 Sandstone Needle

// 21 Sorcery
4 Rite of Flame
4 Burning Wish
2 Past in Flames
4 Act on Impulse
2 Bonus Round
4 Light Up the Stage
1 Empty the Warrens


// 15 Sideboard
// 4 Enchantment
SB: 4 Leyline of the Void

// 2 Instant
SB: 2 Abrade

// 9 Sorcery
SB: 1 Tendrils of Agony
SB: 1 Grapeshot
SB: 1 Empty the Warrens
SB: 1 Past in Flames
SB: 1 Fiery Confluence
SB: 1 Hazoret's Undying Fury
SB: 1 Reforge the Soul
SB: 1 Mizzix's Mastery
SB: 1 Bonus Round

(example for reanimator meta)

for storm meta leyline could be something like tormod's crypt, or scab-clan berserkers.
for more blue meta, maybe include more empty the warrens.

i tried defense grids a lot, and i'm not happy with them.

Mister, in this new config, how would be a list without LED?

[mistercakes]

i've been thinking about how to cut hazoret's from the maindeck and this is what i've come down to:

// 60 Maindeck
// 12 Artifact
4 Lotus Petal
4 Ruby Medallion
4 Lion's Eye Diamond

// 13 Instant
4 Manamorphose
4 Seething Song
3 Desperate Ritual
2 Intuition

// 14 Land
2 Ancient Tomb
4 Sandstone Needle
2 Volcanic Island
2 Bloodstained Mire
2 Scalding Tarn
2 Mountain

// 21 Sorcery
3 Rite of Flame
4 Burning Wish
2 Past in Flames
4 Act on Impulse
4 Bonus Round
4 Light Up the Stage


// 15 Sideboard
// 4 Creature
SB: 4 Guttersnipe

// 11 Sorcery
SB: 1 Tendrils of Agony
SB: 1 Grapeshot
SB: 3 Empty the Warrens
SB: 1 Past in Flames
SB: 1 Fiery Confluence
SB: 1 Hazoret's Undying Fury
SB: 1 Mizzix's Mastery
SB: 1 Rite of Flame
SB: 1 Sadistic Sacrament

if you're greedy run 1 more intuition over a desperate ritual.
----------

for non-led, i think i could have some fun with this

// 60 Maindeck
// 8 Artifact
4 Lotus Petal
4 Ruby Medallion

// 3 Creature
2 Guttersnipe
1 Hope of Ghirapur

// 13 Instant
4 Manamorphose
4 Seething Song
4 Desperate Ritual
1 Commune with Lava

// 14 Land
3 Ancient Tomb
4 Sandstone Needle
2 Bloodstained Mire
2 Scalding Tarn
3 Mountain

// 22 Sorcery
3 Rite of Flame
4 Burning Wish
2 Past in Flames
4 Act on Impulse
4 Bonus Round
4 Light Up the Stage
1 Empty the Warrens


// 12 Sideboard
// 1 Creature
SB: 1 Guttersnipe

// 11 Sorcery
SB: 1 Tendrils of Agony
SB: 1 Grapeshot
SB: 3 Empty the Warrens
SB: 1 Past in Flames
SB: 1 Fiery Confluence
SB: 1 Hazoret's Undying Fury
SB: 1 Mizzix's Mastery
SB: 1 Rite of Flame
SB: 1 Sadistic Sacrament

you could also run a 2nd maindeck hope of ghirapur if you are in a heavy show and tell/reanimator meta. it functions as a time walk as well as a way to beat the control decks. also can trigger light up the stage.

[mistercakes]

for anyone interested in the non-blue version, i think this is the most consistent red LED version.

// 60 Maindeck
// 12 Artifact
4 Lotus Petal
4 Ruby Medallion
4 Lion's Eye Diamond

// 10 Instant
4 Manamorphose
4 Seething Song
2 Desperate Ritual

// 14 Land
2 Ancient Tomb
2 Bloodstained Mire
3 Scalding Tarn
3 Mountain
4 Sandstone Needle

// 24 Sorcery
3 Rite of Flame
4 Burning Wish
2 Past in Flames
4 Act on Impulse
4 Bonus Round
4 Light Up the Stage
3 Empty the Warrens


// 15 Sideboard
// 2 Artifact
SB: 2 Tormod's Crypt

// 2 Creature
SB: 2 Guttersnipe

// 11 Sorcery
SB: 1 Tendrils of Agony
SB: 1 Grapeshot
SB: 1 Empty the Warrens
SB: 1 Past in Flames
SB: 1 Fiery Confluence
SB: 1 Hazoret's Undying Fury
SB: 1 Mizzix's Mastery
SB: 1 Rite of Flame
SB: 1 Sadistic Sacrament
SB: 1 Goblin War Strike
SB: 1 Telemin Performance

if you have a high ANT meta, you can also consider just running an extract in the sb instead of sadistic sacrament. if you want to be more proactive with your general game plan, then just run more guttersnipe or by force, abrade etc.

[Mr. Safety]

Quick question for you mistercakes: I cast bonus round, then past in flames, and then flashback bonus round. How many copy triggers do I get? To me it seems like the first bonus round gives me 1 copy trigger, the flashbacked copy gives me a 2nd copy trigger, the original bonus round gives me a 3rd copy trigger of the bonus round I just flashed back. If this is correct Lightning Bolt by itself can become a lethal 'storm' kill. (Bonus Round follow by Bolt = 6 damage, build mana and flashback Bonus round to get 3 copy triggers, bolt for 12 damage.) Eighteen damage is often lethal.

I tested a few games with my list. I am 100% sold on 3x Lightning Bolt. I'm not sure if 4 is correct, but I'm leaning that way and cutting the maindeck Empty the Warrens for the 4th copy. Bonus Round is the literal nutter-butters for this deck. For anyone curious, I'm not using LED.

[mistercakes]

bonus round works like this

1 resolved means when you cast future spells you get 1 copy.

if you cast a 2nd bonus round (or the 1st one a second time via PiF)

cast bonus round (copy on stack). 2 total resolve.

now if you cast a spell, you will get 3 copies.

if you cast a bonus around again it will look like this


cast bonus round (BR trigger, BR trigger, BR trigger). resolve them all, now you will get 4 more copies.

cast something like manamorphose and you get 7 copies

the number of copies is following the pattern: (2^n) - 1 to determine the number of copies. you can just do 2^n to determine total number of spells that will resolve if all copies resolve.

also referred to as Mersenne Numbers, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mersenne_prime

bolt damage would be 6, 12, 24, 48, 96 damage etc. i liked bolt in the reforge builds b/c if you cast 1 or 2 bonus rounds and cast a reforge, you can win before reforge and the copies fully resolve if need be (and in a a circumstance where you might get decked (assuming all your bolts aren't in the last X cards)

[Mr. Safety]

Cool thanks.

[Lammina]

bonus round works like this

1 resolved means when you cast future spells you get 1 copy.

if you cast a 2nd bonus round (or the 1st one a second time via PiF)

cast bonus round (copy on stack). 2 total resolve.

now if you cast a spell, you will get 3 copies.

if you cast a bonus around again it will look like this


cast bonus round (BR trigger, BR trigger, BR trigger). resolve them all, now you will get 4 more copies.

cast something like manamorphose and you get 7 copies

the number of copies is following the pattern: (2^n) - 1 to determine the number of copies. you can just do 2^n to determine total number of spells that will resolve if all copies resolve.

also referred to as Mersenne Numbers, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mersenne_prime

bolt damage would be 6, 12, 24, 48, 96 damage etc. i liked bolt in the reforge builds b/c if you cast 1 or 2 bonus rounds and cast a reforge, you can win before reforge and the copies fully resolve if need be (and in a a circumstance where you might get decked (assuming all your bolts aren't in the last X cards)

Mistercakes, sorry but I dont understand the math:
1 BR - 2 spells (1 original + 1 copie)
2 BR - 3 spells ( 1 org + 2 copies)
3 BR - Spells (1 org + 3 copies)???
4 BR - ??


Could you help me to understand?

[JosefK]

Bonus round copies the additional bonus rounds as well, so after casting the first you have 1 bonus round in effect. Then you cast the second one, the first triggers on this as well so after everything resolves you have 3 bonus rounds in effect.

[mistercakes]

1 copy
3 copies
7 copies
15 copies
31 copies
63 copies
127 copies
255 copies

[Watcher487]

1 cast = +1 copy
2 casts = +3 copies
3 casts = +7 copies
4 casts = +15 copies
5 casts = +31 copies
6 casts = +63 copies
7 casts = +127 copies
8 casts = +255 copies
fixed that.

[Lammina]

fixed that.


@mistercakes and @Watcher487: thank you!

[Mr. Safety]

So I've been getting some reps in with the deck (not matches, just goldfishing) and Light up the Stage is the real deal. In this deck it doesn't need to be enabled with Spectacle at all, I rarely play it that way. The Ruby's making it even 2 mana is just fine. I'm still on the non-LED version, which makes it about a turn slower, but it's still very explosive. Bonus Round has really made it so Tendrils wins are less necessary, turbo charging the storm count (not literally, just drawing more cards and making more mana) so Grapeshot is easily lethal.

[Lammina]

So I've been getting some reps in with the deck (not matches, just goldfishing) and Light up the Stage is the real deal. In this deck it doesn't need to be enabled with Spectacle at all, I rarely play it that way. The Ruby's making it even 2 mana is just fine. I'm still on the non-LED version, which makes it about a turn slower, but it's still very explosive. Bonus Round has really made it so Tendrils wins are less necessary, turbo charging the storm count (not literally, just drawing more cards and making more mana) so Grapeshot is easily lethal.
Nice! And how is your decklist?

[Mr. Safety]

It was posted earlier on, the only change being that I put 1 Bonus Round into the sideboard.

4x Rite of Flame
4x Desperate Ritual
4x Seething Song
4x Manamorphose
4x Ruby Medallion
4x Lotus Petal
4x Burning Wish
4x Light up the Stage
4x Act on Impulse
3x Past in Flames
3x Bonus Round
3x Lightning Bolt
1x Hazoret's Undying Fury

4x Ancient Tomb
10x Mountain

Sideboard
1x Tendrils
1x Empty
1x Grapeshot
1x PiF
1x Bonus Round
1x Pyroclasm
1x By Force
1x Reforge the Soul
3x Guttersnipe
2x Scab-Clan Berserker
2x Pyroblast

[Lammina]

It was posted earlier on, the only change being that I put 1 Bonus Round into the sideboard.

4x Rite of Flame
4x Desperate Ritual
4x Seething Song
4x Manamorphose
4x Ruby Medallion
4x Lotus Petal
4x Burning Wish
4x Light up the Stage
4x Act on Impulse
3x Past in Flames
3x Bonus Round
3x Lightning Bolt
1x Hazoret's Undying Fury

4x Ancient Tomb
10x Mountain

Sideboard
1x Tendrils
1x Empty
1x Grapeshot
1x PiF
1x Bonus Round
1x Pyroclasm
1x By Force
1x Reforge the Soul
3x Guttersnipe
2x Scab-Clan Berserker
2x Pyroblast

Thank you!

[ahg113]

This deck is so much fun, Light Up the Stage is such a boon, a totally missing piece of the deck. SSS but playing on cockatrice, being able to go over the top, especially against Eldrazi which gave the first iteration of this deck soooo much trouble with resistors, chalice, etc. JOY! Thanks everyone here (except the purple players, blue is the devil, you're all dead to me) for making this a sweet sweet brew. I'm on the fence about playing in a 1k this Saturday, so many things to do, so little time.

Previously was on the man-plan, but for stated reasons, I don't like turning on removal. I play EtW minimally, for that reason. But when I got Scab-Clan Berserker live, it housed other storm decks, can-trip cartel too. It competes with Defense Grid.

Current deck list, currently wouldn't change anything. Always open to SB suggestions. Saw Sadistic Sacrament, isn't that way win-more, felt similar about Telemin Performance.

4 Ruby Medallion
4 Lotus Petal
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Seething Song
4 Manamorphose
2 Lightning Bolt
2 Commune with Lava
8 Mountain
4 Ancient Tomb
2 Sandstone Needle
1 Past in Flames
4 Rite of Flame
4 Act on Impulse
4 Burning Wish
3 Bonus Round
1 Fiery Confluence
1 Reforge the Soul
4 Light Up the Stage

SB:
3 Defense Grid
1 Past in Flames
1 Reforge the Soul
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 By Force
1 Cave-In
1 Shattering Spree
1 Chain Lightning
1 Banefire
1 Bonus Round
1 Empty the Warrens
1 Grapeshot
1 Fiery Confluence

[JosefK]

except the purple players

There are no purple players, only one player. The reason for that seem to mostly be because of either budget reasons or an in my mind irrational dislike of blue. It's a bit unfortunate in my opinion as i (obv) think UR is better and that blue offers more possibility for varying play styles in different matchups. I'm currently ~62% wins this year (almost 150 matches). I'm certain that it can be increased somewhat just by settling which strategies to use in which matchup.
2 examples of where that has happened

I had an revelation a while ago about why the grixis control matchup was so good. Before that revelation i had 24-14, after that revelation i am 13-2, this is without any major changes in the deck.
The other example being sneak and show, i realized a while ago that i am _not_ the beatdown in the postboard games. Before that i was 3-6, after that i am 5-0, very small sample size and it's obviously not a 100% matchup but i feel a lot more confident in that matchup now.

Both those changes are directly related to the cantrips, what to keep, what to shuffle away etc.
It would be awesome with more people playing UR and be able to discuss playstyles instead of just decklists. If only i weren't so lazy i would create my own thread and be more active in promoting the deck :)

[ahg113]

There are no purple players, only one player. The reason for that seem to mostly be because of either budget reasons or an in my mind irrational dislike of blue. It's a bit unfortunate in my opinion as i (obv) think UR is better and that blue offers more possibility for varying play styles in different matchups. I'm currently ~62% wins this year (almost 150 matches). I'm certain that it can be increased somewhat just by settling which strategies to use in which matchup.
2 examples of where that has happened

I had an revelation a while ago about why the grixis control matchup was so good. Before that revelation i had 24-14, after that revelation i am 13-2, this is without any major changes in the deck.
The other example being sneak and show, i realized a while ago that i am _not_ the beatdown in the postboard games. Before that i was 3-6, after that i am 5-0, very small sample size and it's obviously not a 100% matchup but i feel a lot more confident in that matchup now.

Both those changes are directly related to the cantrips, what to keep, what to shuffle away etc.
It would be awesome with more people playing UR and be able to discuss playstyles instead of just decklists. If only i weren't so lazy i would create my own thread and be more active in promoting the deck :)

I'm joking with you, you're a-ok. Sarcasm doesn't translate the best online, and I don't participate enough for it to be evident. I'd include mistercakes as purple since he started splashing for Intuition.

[mistercakes]

There are no purple players, only one player. The reason for that seem to mostly be because of either budget reasons or an in my mind irrational dislike of blue. It's a bit unfortunate in my opinion as i (obv) think UR is better and that blue offers more possibility for varying play styles in different matchups. I'm currently ~62% wins this year (almost 150 matches). I'm certain that it can be increased somewhat just by settling which strategies to use in which matchup.
2 examples of where that has happened

I had an revelation a while ago about why the grixis control matchup was so good. Before that revelation i had 24-14, after that revelation i am 13-2, this is without any major changes in the deck.
The other example being sneak and show, i realized a while ago that i am _not_ the beatdown in the postboard games. Before that i was 3-6, after that i am 5-0, very small sample size and it's obviously not a 100% matchup but i feel a lot more confident in that matchup now.

Both those changes are directly related to the cantrips, what to keep, what to shuffle away etc.
It would be awesome with more people playing UR and be able to discuss playstyles instead of just decklists. If only i weren't so lazy i would create my own thread and be more active in promoting the deck :)

there's valid points here. the reason why i don't play blue is to try and optimize the red list. it has some advantages and i think that while the blue deck has some advantages for consistency, it's likely just a few cards off from being ANT/TES.

there's a few advantages to staying in red (and optionally splashing for intuition)

1) the exile cards are quite strong with LED. many times you can just go for it and there's a good chance you'll get there.
2) you can run more maindeck empty the warrens, it's not as elegant, but the stupid guys win games.
3) you're less weak to chalice on 1, a lot less.

[Tall_George]

So I have been messing around with the sideboard as well. I'm not set on the number of copies but I think that post board 2-3-4 copies of Silence can be very strong against a lot of decks. Also having 2 plateau mb allows us to cast these hate cards or wear//tear. Giving us a few outs. We are still dead on the draw to BR reanimator but much stronger against other combo, and even control decks. I have cut the Surgicals and replaced with Silence. I will not be playing in my weekly Tonight but plan on jamming a few games this weekend.

Light Up the Storm:

Maindeck (60)
3 Rite of Flame
4 Burning Wish
4 Manamorphose
4 Act on Impulse
3 Bonus Round
4 Light Up the Stage
4 Seething Song
1 Empty the Warrens
2 Past in Flames
2 Reforge the Soul
3 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Lotus Petal
2 Helm of Awakening
4 Ruby Medallion
4 Ancient Tomb
1 Arid Mesa
2 Bloodstained Mire
5 Mountain
2 Plateau
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Wooded Foothills

Sideboard (15)
1 Rite of Flame
4 Silence
4 Pyroclasm
2 Wear // Tear
1 Empty the Warrens
1 Fiery Confluence
1 Past in Flames
1 Tendrils of Agony

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[JosefK]

@ahg113 It's not that i did take you serious on that, so no worries.

@mistercakes i do think that UR-bonus-storm is more different from TES than ANT is from TES. Sometimes it even kinda feels like that mono R vs UR bonus is more different than TES vs ANT.

But there are a lot of advantages to staying mono red, i think you missed one major. Sandstone needle. I've tried to incorporate it with volcanics but it does not work that well when you want to cantrip t1.

It's not that i like blue, i'm totally indifferent to the colors of magic cards. If ponder and brainstorm where green i would run green (hmm, i would miss flusterstorm tho). I know some people really dislike blue but it's hard for me to understand.

I would enjoy if more people played UR as the collective mind is stronger than my own, but i'm not saying _you_ _must_ _play_ _UR_. Legacy is a recreational format and everyone should play what they want. I'm also kind of happy to be the only one casting bonus round on mtgo as it gives me a couple of free wins now and then when my opponents misplay.

@Tall_George be sure to tell us how it goes. Innovation is always good and i think that everything red has to offer has been tested already so splashing a color is a good way to expand the possibilities. I do like wear/tear and silence but 4 pyroclasm feels a bit... over the top, especially as it does not stop one of the worst hatebears scab clan berserker.

[mistercakes]

Ah yes. Sandstone needle. This card is great!

George, you also may want to consider abeyance in some slots. With bonus round it is 2 cards, but it is possible the additional mana is too much.

[Tall_George]

Fellow Ruby Pilots, as always thank you for the feedback.

I do not see myself casting the silence effect that often once a bonus round has resolved. I think silence is much more stop Omni/reanimator/ant/tes from going off. It can also be used to actually silence/bait my FOW opponent into counter magic they would rather save.

My deck against control is pretty well rounded as I see it. Most everything is must counter. Brainstorm is good, but feels pretty weak against 1R draw 7.If they stop me mid storm, one top deck Reforge, LuTS, AOI can start it back up again. If Mav gets the nuts mom/Teeg, I just scoop. I like the 4 pyro for testing because 1 left in wish G2 gives me access to 7 copies.

I have not seen a single scab-clan resolved against me in paper. The meta here is maybe just too far behind. ;-)

I have also been testing sulfur elemental when I think miracles is going to be more prevalent. (Feels very good when decks are going mom/Thalia/cannonist/prelate. Very bad when they go Mystic/Whitewood/priest) Due to split second, and the fact a lot decks will take out all swords against me. Honestly only one elves player in my local meta and he could beat me piloting a grilled cheese sandwich most days. Guy is just Endboss Level.

I feel like the meta is a lot of other combo right now. If we can't discard them, waste them, or deny them with permission, what is our plan? Get right under them, be more resilient

Silence is pure testing for science. How bad is 4 blanks in the SB? How often does it feel like a blank?

I feel that surgical is cool and all but most games was not as effective as I would like it.

George




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[Tall_George]

Also how did we miss on khorvath's fury. A great wish target as a draw spell in the sideboard. I'm going to test one.

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[mistercakes]

it looks a little underwhelming but let us know how it goes.

[ahg113]

Howdy,

Played Saturday 2/23/2018 @ Top Deck Games, NJ, 41 people, 6 rds cut to T8, part of a yearly series between three local stores (Redcap’s Corner & Alternate Universe)

Overall finished with a 4-2 record L-W-W-W-L-W, came in 10th, got the entry fee back in store credit (9th – 16th).

So my buddy gave me a heads up to a local event and I got a chance to play this in paper again. IRL playing this the 2nd time, the 1st being back on 2/3/18, so about a year ago, damn time flies.
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?31803-Ruby-Storm&p=1036186&viewfull=1#post1036186
The deck has changed a bit since then, no more g. probe, I stopped playing dudes. Add B. Round, LUtS, Commune. Switched the maindeck wincons of EtW and ToA with L. Bolt and Fiery.

Here’s what I played-
// Legacy - Ruby Storm - Lightning Bonus Stage

// 12 Artifact
4 Ruby Medallion
4 Lotus Petal
4 Lion's Eye Diamond

// 12 Instant
4 Seething Song
4 Manamorphose
2 Lightning Bolt
2 Commune with Lava

// 14 Land
8 Mountain
3 Ancient Tomb
3 Sandstone Needle

// 22 Sorcery
1 Past in Flames
4 Rite of Flame
4 Act on Impulse
4 Burning Wish
3 Bonus Round
1 Fiery Confluence
1 Reforge the Soul
4 Light Up the Stage

// 15 Sideboard
// 3 Artifact
3 Defense Grid

// 12 Sorcery
1 Past in Flames
1 Reforge the Soul
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 By Force
1 Cave-In
1 Shattering Spree
1 Chain Lightning
1 Banefire
1 Bonus Round
1 Empty the Warrens
1 Grapeshot
1 Fiery Confluence

Off the bat, very very happy with LUtS, card is a boss. They took away G. Probe, boooo!, but they gave us LUtS, YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!
About the SB, I did play Defense Grid, and brought it in during one match-up, where it influenced 1 game, but I still lost it. Trap of keeping a hand with hate, but not full of win. From the sorceries, the Grapeshot, C. Lightning, Tendrils, Empty, Cave-In, B. Round, PiF, and Fiery were wished for. The Banefire wasn’t considered, and the artifact hate wasn’t needed. I like the RftS as a safety blanket, but that wasn’t needed either.

M1 – David (9th) – Sneak’n’Show
: ( : ( : ( : ( : ( : ( : ( : ( : ( : ( : ( : ( : ( (that’s prolly enough) : (
Never was competitive, I was rofl-stomped
G1 – I played, mulled to six I opened with a tomb and ruby. He fetched and got an island- cantrip. Not sure what I did my turn 2, not relevant. His turn 2, show and tells for Omni, I have nothing to put into play, then he plays Griz, activates, I think plays an emmy, but whatever, game is over…
G2 – I played, I think I played a ruby. He FoW (ponder) on my manamorphose t2. His t3, he got into play a Sneak Attack, and then got out a Griz and an Emmy. I was never in these games.

M2 – Kevin – Slivers
Karma is so balanced
G1 – He played, He put a few slivers and an Aether Vial into play. On my turn 3, I storm for a bunch and cast an Empty creating 16 goblins, powered off two sandstones and a mountain, 7 storm were (rite, bolt, BW, AoI, LED, Song*2). Too many little green men. He had a Galerider*2 & Hibernation sliver on board.
G2 – He played, The critical turn was my t3. I took two off of tomb, unsure for what, but the deck just started to vomit all over itself. I had two mountains and a tomb in play, took notes of playing two manamorphose, B. round, Song, and B.W. It just went bonkers, I asked if he wanted to concede or watch me go through it, he was cool about it, newish to legacy, so I just played it out, but the amount of mana and storm at that point were ridiculous, I could’ve done anything except deck him most likely.
To his credit, he would’ve had lethal on board to crackback his t4. Said he boarded in chalices and canonists, but didn’t see them.

M3 – Sam (20th) – NicFit Scapeshift
G1 – I played, mulled to 5, On my turn 2, I took 2 for a Ruby. Didn’t take extensive notes on the chain, but got a t2 kill, with storm over 11, had fuel to keep going. But why bother? Went for broke early, flipped a RtS mid chain off a Commune for 5 – Yahtzee.
G2 – He played, took damage from V. Explorer a few times, he didn’t want to sac him for value. He took a surgical to remove PiF, and I died the next turn to the scapeshift combo. A turn too slow.
G3 – I played, This game actually went back and forth, I went for broke making 10 goblins t2, got him to 8, then to 2 playing my misers Fiery Confluence. First took damage when a Huntmaster he played flipped to Ravager, then took 6 with the Ravager, Wolf beats. He went up and down a bit with fetch and Huntmaster flips. This game he cast surgical on B.Wish. Heart of the cards, I was looking at a board state of 2 Wolves, Steve (tribe elder), huntmaster. Off a desperate AoI I flipped another AoI flipping an LED and PiF, my last out. Recast the misers Fiery in the yard to win.
First two matches didn’t go past 10 minutes, this one took near 40.

M4 – Juan (12th) – U/B Suicide Death’s Shadow
G1 – I played, he mulled to 6, he took a couple hits from painlands and T.seize (discarded B.W.) What he left in hand was AoI, Morphose, Petal, Song. I had played two needles and a tomb. I storm out on t3, using a drawn B.W. for a PiF to play the discarded one. The storm got ridiculous, who’s playing whom?
G2 – He played, I took damage twice from tomb. Doesn’t really matter, the discard this time gets there. He took a LUtS with a t.seize, and hurt himself with fetchs and painlands. The nail was put in the coffin when a hymn forced me to discard a song and B. Round. Angler made short work of a deck that doesn’t play chump blockers. I might’ve cast a Fiery to sweep two Shadows out of desperation before the Angler, but nothing matters, whatever.
G3 – I played, this game went to time. He doesn’t do much himself, but there’s a lot of Wasteland disruption, and three thoughtseizes (Song, B.Wish, B.Wish) In regulation, I cast a t4 RtS from hand. Had two tombs and a mountain compared to his lone Watery Grave. Before that play, he did cast a FoW on a Rite of Flame, didn’t write down what the play would have been. When we get to turns, his t0, he cycles SWraith and drops to 6. Just in Time (my FAVORITE Inventory control system), my t4 in turns, I have two tombs, a mountain, 2 LED, and use LUTS and Commune to churn through cards to get there.

M5 – Jeremy (5th*) – U/R Burn
G1 – He played, he mulled to ?, Taking typical beats from burn, S.Spear, C.Lightning. Early in the game I go for a storm chain, but it begins to fizzle, not enough juice, so I do some board control, B. Wish for grapeshot, storm at 11, 3 each at the spears, 6 to him. Start to tilt about just going for it, decide to do it. B.Round into LUtS, found LED, another B.Round, and Fiery. Lived the dream, Double Bonus Confluence, was my turn 4 or 5, was likely dead next or turn after.
G2 – He played, only damage he takes is from fetching volc’s. I die on t6, or t7, taking beats from pteramander, a tomb, and a smash to smithereens. This is a do nothing game for me.
G3 – I played , mulled to 5, Again, a do nothing game for me. He takes a point from fetching, but I succumb to delver, spear ptera beats. Whomp whomp.
*after Swiss, didn’t stay to see conclusion, ride wanted to jet

M6 – Dave (17th) – Death & Taxes
(We start with a pleasant reacquaintance. We’re both fathers of toddlers and enjoy some banter about giving our kids cards and looking forward to teaching our kids the game. He’s a good dude, has a good beard.)
G1 – He played, This game wasn’t super competitive. He didn’t waste anything, didn’t have a Thalia. Don’t remember how, or why the deck worked so well, but my chicken scratch says “needle power -> t4” So turn 4 was the critical turn, had the needle (sac’d) two mountains and a ruby in play, didn’t use the t4 land drop. Storm count was for as large as I wanted, tendrils kill, had over 20 mana in the pool floating, and there were 8 cards I “didn’t draw”, because it didn’t matter (I wouldn’t have decked myself, I was lazy and shortcutting). The star? Double Bonus Round, ftw.
G2 – He played, I mulled to 6, Oh how I punted so hard in this game. 1st punt was to not kill Thalia his t2. I had the mana and L.Bolt in hand, and thought, what if I want to kill something else later? I had already played a ruby. Then his t3 the land drop was a Karakas, damn. Then I just take beats, I tap A.tomb to pay for the Thalia tax, completely forgetting I have a ruby, the two damage don’t matter though. He casts a Relic Warder to snatch the ruby, and I just die to simple beats, slowly.
G3 – I played, yep, sometimes math is dumb, sometimes you just have to count to turn 2. I play a tomb my first turn, and on my second I storm for 12 goblins. He surgicals a bolt while I’m storming, which only gives me an extra 2 dudes. His turn 2, he would’ve played a canonist in his hand, but he never got a chance. No guts, no glory.

The deck felt really good. There was a lot of dumb explosive plays and just feeding off each other. I still swear by Commune with Lava, especially in the builds with LED. Being able to flip all these cards into exile, instead of drawing is just amazing. There were a few AoIs that were chaff’esque. But I have no problem skimming lands from the top of the deck, and if not prohibitive, would cast the cards from exile to put them in the yard instead of removed. LUtS and Commune, those cards almost always got me to winning the game, especially if I’m untapping with an extra 4+ cards.

I avoided blue so well today. U/R Burn and U/B Shadow were the only ones. Maybe I wasn’t good enough to play against the Miracle players, but I don’t mind. For sauce, this and an As Foretold/Electrodominance deck (3-3) got the most people talking.

Keep jamming, Ruby Storm!

[mistercakes]

sounds like a nice report. unfortunately there isn't too much we can do about sneak and show (it's just a terrible matchup.)

losing to UR delver can also be annoying, nice job though! and nice report!

[JosefK]

I played my first, and probably last MTGO challenge today (takes to much time).

Warning blue haters, there will be mentions of cantrips! Here is a quick recap

Match 1 - DnT (last weeks runner up), lost die roll
G1) He plays t1 mom, t2 stoneforge mystic
I play t1 brainstorm eot into an t2 kill of ruby medallion Rof Seething song bonus round wish for hazorets
G2) I mull to 6
He starts vial go, i go land petal, he then casts aethersworn canonist. I almost throw this game away as i think i need to kill canonist before he probably vials in mother of runes and think about playing seething song -> fiery confluence... not a good play with a canonist in play. Instead i brainstorm and he eot vials in mom. His turn he plays flickerwisp and on my turn i play confluence, killing vial mom and flickerwisp leaving him with canonist. He has double port at this time, but i manage to sneak in a ruby medallion when he jams batterskull and a turn later eot echoing truth on canonist and then win on my turn (through double port). had 2 mana left and a ruby, played seething bonus -> burning for rite and hazoret.

Match 2 - Moon stompy lost die again.
G1) He goes t1 rabblemaster, t2 trinisphere, rough!
I go land petal,and keep doing landdrops until my third turn (he has no turn 3 play) and facing lethal with a trinisphere on the table... I simply cast seething song, bonus round, rite of flame, 2 x manamorphose which chains into another bonus round and manamorphose and a seething song. Had burning wish the whole game so just wish for Fiery confluence for the win.
G2) I mull to 5 and keep Wish, SSG, Desperate, RoF, Tomb, scry.... sees bonus round!
He goes mountain petal chalice for zero , i guess he had scabclan in hand for t2. As i have a deterministic turn 1 kill i win.

Match 3 - Burn, lost the die
G1) he goes t1 goblin guide, t2 stuck on 1 land and plays rift bolt
I go t1 ponder and play 2 lotus petal. T2 i play Tomb, and brainstorm into a nice kill
RoF - Splice Desperate ritual, intuition for 1x rof 1x manamorphose 1x pif. My last card in hand is burning wish, and i manage to get exactly 19 storm from just cantripping and ritualing. So i wish for grapeshot and win.
G2) I throw this one away, i have abrade from start, so i dont fear his t2 eidolon that much. I get in a situation where i could probably go off on turn 3,but as the only thing that damaged me sofar is one eidolon hit i just play ruby medallion to cast my eot reforge i set up on t1. 16 life cant go so quickly i think. He hits me with eidolon, plays PoP and the 4damage spell. 6 life, i abrade eidolon (why not before combat?!?) 4 life, manamorphose reforge and he draws the fireblast.
G3) i just kill him turn 2 (Tomb Seething song bonus round manamorphose into ponder)

3-0!

Match 4 - Miracles, lost the die
G1) I keep a okayish hand that lacks cantrips. I never draw any cantrips and by turn 5 all i have drawn is lands, lotus petals and bonus rounds. I do have so much initial mana so my plan becomes playing 2 bonus rounds and then rof into a reforge. But he has sculpted his hand for 5 turns so nothing resolves and he plays back to basics on his turn.
G2) I felt defeated before the game begun. I kept a hand with 4 land, 2 ruby medallion and a RoF. In hindsight i don't see any reason for keeping this as i had boarded out all 4 reforge. I needed to string together a lot of good draws, or at least any cantrips. This does not happen before he lands counterbalance and jace.

Annoying match, as i have a pretty good % against miracles usually, but those two games felt mostly like i did not do anything at all.

Match 5 - Moon stompy, lost the die roll (5th in a row!?)
G1) Still tilted i keep another bad hand with Tomb as my only land and a lotus petal, but not really anything to do with them besides a Reforge. Good for me he starts with magus of the moon so i at least have a permanent red source :) I RoF out a ruby medallion and play petal. He has no play t2 (thanks to his own magus) and i top deck desperate ritual so i can cast reforge into the win from a land, a desperate ritual a bonus round and 2x manamorphose.
G2) I mull to 5, he plays leyline and chalice for one, sad as i had a ponder. A trinisphere follows and as i am stuck on 1 land it feels rough. I manage to find a ancient tomb, and decide to abrade the chalice, my opponent is stuck on 2 mana, and if i could draw another mana source from my ponder i could win the following turn. I ponder and get what i need to win, my opponent gets his third mana and slams scab-clan :(, Lost the game.
G3) I mull to 6, the rite of flames look good in my hand for t2 but his curve is
t1: Chalice for 1
t2: Chalice for 2
t3: Scab-clan
I never find Fiery Confluence and die quickly.

3-2

Match 6 vs some depthsdeck, and, you guessed it! Lost the die roll
G1) My t1 brainstorm sets me up for a t2 eot Reforge off volcanic - tomb manamorphose, i respond to the reforge with brainstom to put back a ritual and a burning wish and win easily on my turn.
G2) He goes full turbo depths while i play it slowly. I neaaaarly lost this game because i f6ed to end my turn and he esgd and made a marit lage token, while he is in his mainphase i realize that i have no stop other than eot, but quickly manage to set one so i could echoing truth marit lage and then untap and win.

Match 7, UR Delver. I LOST THE DIE ROLL.
G1) He plays t1 delver, i play tomb petal go, he bolts me and attack with delver. I untap, play volcanic, ponder into another RoF and play 2 -> bonus round -> manamorphose into the two cards of ponder which win me the game.
G2) I mull to 6 and get stuck on 1 land, rofs out a ruby, but multiple dazes stop me from doing anything while the t1 delver kills me.
G3) Long interesting game. I play ruby t1. T2 i cast RoF, burning wish, hoping he would daze my burning wish to stop goblins as i have a seething song in hand. He does not daze, i could now play seething and another ruby to go for 10 goblins, but as he does not seem scared of goblins i decided to just make 6, he dazes one of them so it's only 4. Next turn i ponder to find a bonus round and a manamorphose but still stuck on 1 red mana so have to pass. He Forked bolted 2 of my goblins and flip a delver. I try to go for it but he fows my seething song. Next turn he bolts me, i respond with abrade on his delver. He plays Pteramander. I draws the ritual i need and win from there.

5-2 Ended up 16th place with only one 5-2 making top 8. 122 players total.

Decklist can be found at https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/mtgo-standings/legacy-challenge-2019-03-11

Deck felt good, SSG was not _that_ good, but still OK. 3x flusterstorm in the sideboard was not needed this time, but i'm reluctant to go down to 2 as they are really good vs other combo and grixis. I would actually want to fit another fiery confluence in, and i miss hope of ghirapur. The only cards that sometimes make me feel like "noooo not this now" is burning wish, bonus round and Reforge the soul. Still don't think i would like to go down to three of any of them. I only wish i could play 6-7 brainstorm to shuffle away unwanted duplicates more often.

I felt i got pretty good draws overall, probably slightly above average, but losing 7 of 7 die rolls felt insane.

[ahg113]

I played my first, and probably last MTGO challenge today (takes to much time).

Warning blue haters, there will be mentions of cantrips! Here is a quick recap

: P

Kudos on the good showing.

[Lammina]

I played my first, and probably last MTGO challenge today (takes to much time).

Warning blue haters, there will be mentions of cantrips! Here is a quick recap

Match 1 - DnT (last weeks runner up), lost die roll
G1) He plays t1 mom, t2 stoneforge mystic
I play t1 brainstorm eot into an t2 kill of ruby medallion Rof Seething song bonus round wish for hazorets
G2) I mull to 6
He starts vial go, i go land petal, he then casts aethersworn canonist. I almost throw this game away as i think i need to kill canonist before he probably vials in mother of runes and think about playing seething song -> fiery confluence... not a good play with a canonist in play. Instead i brainstorm and he eot vials in mom. His turn he plays flickerwisp and on my turn i play confluence, killing vial mom and flickerwisp leaving him with canonist. He has double port at this time, but i manage to sneak in a ruby medallion when he jams batterskull and a turn later eot echoing truth on canonist and then win on my turn (through double port). had 2 mana left and a ruby, played seething bonus -> burning for rite and hazoret.

Match 2 - Moon stompy lost die again.
G1) He goes t1 rabblemaster, t2 trinisphere, rough!
I go land petal,and keep doing landdrops until my third turn (he has no turn 3 play) and facing lethal with a trinisphere on the table... I simply cast seething song, bonus round, rite of flame, 2 x manamorphose which chains into another bonus round and manamorphose and a seething song. Had burning wish the whole game so just wish for Fiery confluence for the win.
G2) I mull to 5 and keep Wish, SSG, Desperate, RoF, Tomb, scry.... sees bonus round!
He goes mountain petal chalice for zero , i guess he had scabclan in hand for t2. As i have a deterministic turn 1 kill i win.

Match 3 - Burn, lost the die
G1) he goes t1 goblin guide, t2 stuck on 1 land and plays rift bolt
I go t1 ponder and play 2 lotus petal. T2 i play Tomb, and brainstorm into a nice kill
RoF - Splice Desperate ritual, intuition for 1x rof 1x manamorphose 1x pif. My last card in hand is burning wish, and i manage to get exactly 19 storm from just cantripping and ritualing. So i wish for grapeshot and win.
G2) I throw this one away, i have abrade from start, so i dont fear his t2 eidolon that much. I get in a situation where i could probably go off on turn 3,but as the only thing that damaged me sofar is one eidolon hit i just play ruby medallion to cast my eot reforge i set up on t1. 16 life cant go so quickly i think. He hits me with eidolon, plays PoP and the 4damage spell. 6 life, i abrade eidolon (why not before combat?!?) 4 life, manamorphose reforge and he draws the fireblast.
G3) i just kill him turn 2 (Tomb Seething song bonus round manamorphose into ponder)

3-0!

Match 4 - Miracles, lost the die
G1) I keep a okayish hand that lacks cantrips. I never draw any cantrips and by turn 5 all i have drawn is lands, lotus petals and bonus rounds. I do have so much initial mana so my plan becomes playing 2 bonus rounds and then rof into a reforge. But he has sculpted his hand for 5 turns so nothing resolves and he plays back to basics on his turn.
G2) I felt defeated before the game begun. I kept a hand with 4 land, 2 ruby medallion and a RoF. In hindsight i don't see any reason for keeping this as i had boarded out all 4 reforge. I needed to string together a lot of good draws, or at least any cantrips. This does not happen before he lands counterbalance and jace.

Annoying match, as i have a pretty good % against miracles usually, but those two games felt mostly like i did not do anything at all.

Match 5 - Moon stompy, lost the die roll (5th in a row!?)
G1) Still tilted i keep another bad hand with Tomb as my only land and a lotus petal, but not really anything to do with them besides a Reforge. Good for me he starts with magus of the moon so i at least have a permanent red source :) I RoF out a ruby medallion and play petal. He has no play t2 (thanks to his own magus) and i top deck desperate ritual so i can cast reforge into the win from a land, a desperate ritual a bonus round and 2x manamorphose.
G2) I mull to 5, he plays leyline and chalice for one, sad as i had a ponder. A trinisphere follows and as i am stuck on 1 land it feels rough. I manage to find a ancient tomb, and decide to abrade the chalice, my opponent is stuck on 2 mana, and if i could draw another mana source from my ponder i could win the following turn. I ponder and get what i need to win, my opponent gets his third mana and slams scab-clan :(, Lost the game.
G3) I mull to 6, the rite of flames look good in my hand for t2 but his curve is
t1: Chalice for 1
t2: Chalice for 2
t3: Scab-clan
I never find Fiery Confluence and die quickly.

3-2

Match 6 vs some depthsdeck, and, you guessed it! Lost the die roll
G1) My t1 brainstorm sets me up for a t2 eot Reforge off volcanic - tomb manamorphose, i respond to the reforge with brainstom to put back a ritual and a burning wish and win easily on my turn.
G2) He goes full turbo depths while i play it slowly. I neaaaarly lost this game because i f6ed to end my turn and he esgd and made a marit lage token, while he is in his mainphase i realize that i have no stop other than eot, but quickly manage to set one so i could echoing truth marit lage and then untap and win.

Match 7, UR Delver. I LOST THE DIE ROLL.
G1) He plays t1 delver, i play tomb petal go, he bolts me and attack with delver. I untap, play volcanic, ponder into another RoF and play 2 -> bonus round -> manamorphose into the two cards of ponder which win me the game.
G2) I mull to 6 and get stuck on 1 land, rofs out a ruby, but multiple dazes stop me from doing anything while the t1 delver kills me.
G3) Long interesting game. I play ruby t1. T2 i cast RoF, burning wish, hoping he would daze my burning wish to stop goblins as i have a seething song in hand. He does not daze, i could now play seething and another ruby to go for 10 goblins, but as he does not seem scared of goblins i decided to just make 6, he dazes one of them so it's only 4. Next turn i ponder to find a bonus round and a manamorphose but still stuck on 1 red mana so have to pass. He Forked bolted 2 of my goblins and flip a delver. I try to go for it but he fows my seething song. Next turn he bolts me, i respond with abrade on his delver. He plays Pteramander. I draws the ritual i need and win from there.

5-2 Ended up 16th place with only one 5-2 making top 8. 122 players total.

Decklist can be found at https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/mtgo-standings/legacy-challenge-2019-03-11

Deck felt good, SSG was not _that_ good, but still OK. 3x flusterstorm in the sideboard was not needed this time, but i'm reluctant to go down to 2 as they are really good vs other combo and grixis. I would actually want to fit another fiery confluence in, and i miss hope of ghirapur. The only cards that sometimes make me feel like "noooo not this now" is burning wish, bonus round and Reforge the soul. Still don't think i would like to go down to three of any of them. I only wish i could play 6-7 brainstorm to shuffle away unwanted duplicates more often.

I felt i got pretty good draws overall, probably slightly above average, but losing 7 of 7 die rolls felt insane.

Nice report!

One question: how did you win the match 2, game 2, in T1? I couldnt figure out... Im new with the deck...

[mistercakes]

Nice report!

One question: how did you win the match 2, game 2, in T1? I couldnt figure out... Im new with the deck...

G2) I mull to 5 and keep Wish, SSG, Desperate, RoF, Tomb, scry.... sees bonus round!
He goes mountain petal chalice for zero , i guess he had scabclan in hand for t2. As i have a deterministic turn 1 kill i win.


looks like.

tomb + SSG + desperate = RRR1. cast bonus round. cast RoF (RRRR). cast wish. get RoF + Hazoret's Undying Fury. (my guess is that this more or less is deterministic for josef)

[JosefK]

(my guess is that this more or less is deterministic for josef)

Yeah, it's a misuse of the term deterministic, i mean it could fizzle. It just never happened once in probably 100 times. I have ~20 live draws from a deck of 54 cards and will see 8 cards. If i can lose 7 die rolls in a row i could probably fizzle a bonusrounded hazoret. But until it happens i just treat it like it's deterministic :)

[Lammina]

G2) I mull to 5 and keep Wish, SSG, Desperate, RoF, Tomb, scry.... sees bonus round!
He goes mountain petal chalice for zero , i guess he had scabclan in hand for t2. As i have a deterministic turn 1 kill i win.


looks like.

tomb + SSG + desperate = RRR1. cast bonus round. cast RoF (RRRR). cast wish. get RoF + Hazoret's Undying Fury. (my guess is that this more or less is deterministic for josef)

Ty for the explanation! I dont thought in catch Hazoret... Nice!

[mistercakes]

went to a weekly in london and met a few guys off of here.

had a nice time!

r1: nicfit
g1: fortunately not much interaction. i started with sandstone needle t1. t2 i cast RoF just to cast LuTS. turn 3 i won.
g2: opening hand of 3 lotus petal + bonus round + manamorphose + act on impulse + ancient tomb. (turn 1 win, he had turn 0 leyline but it didn't matter.)

r2: infect
g1: he mulled to 4, but his scry on top was a tropical island. he double pondered and killed me after countering my only spell.
g2: i brought in an ensnaring bridge. i cast it, he let it resolve. then he asked to take back and i was feeling nice. i put it in my graveyard. died shortly after.
(we played a bunch for fun and he beat me pretty much every time, so i don't have high hopes for this matchup, at least in the configuration without maindeck lightning bolts.)

r3: enchantress
g1: i can't recall that much, but i had a string of spells to kill within first 3 turns.
g2: he had out a turn 3 gaddock teeg. i played turn 3 guttersnipe. on his turn 4 he didn't have anything eventful. on my turn 4 i had 3 lands so i cast, desperate ritual bonus round, luts (for R) and flipped more luts, cast LED from hand and deal 20 pretty easily.

r4: jeskai ascendancy deck
g1: he forces bonus round, and i have a luts that lands a string of spells into a burning wish led tendrils.
g2: he has 3 forces and 2 flusterstorm, i run out of gas.
g3: guttersnipe almost gets there, but i am short a mana. i also stupidly burning wished mainphase and grabbed empty when i should have grabbed a RoF. pretty sure guttersnipe would have been lethal at that point as he survived at 4 life and i had a PiF in the graveyard.

overall had a fun time.

list can be found here:
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/695861#paper

intuition was pretty good. i think the deck was honestly fine, but i can see a good argument for running maindeck bolts or maindeck empty the warrens.

[JosefK]

list can be found here:
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/695861#paper

I decided to give the list a try(some small modifications in the sideboard and among the lands) in a league to get a feel for LutS, will see how it goes. So far i'm 1-0 after a quick 2-0 game vs ANT where he got a bit unlucky with two turn 2 ad nauseam -> pass the turn so i could grapeshot for 3/5 pretty easy. Not cast LutS so far, but sandstone needle and LED feel as great as always. Will see when i will be able to continue the league.

[kinda]

went to a weekly in london and met a few guys off of here.

had a nice time!

r1: nicfit
g1: fortunately not much interaction. i started with sandstone needle t1. t2 i cast RoF just to cast LuTS. turn 3 i won.
g2: opening hand of 3 lotus petal + bonus round + manamorphose + act on impulse + ancient tomb. (turn 1 win, he had turn 0 leyline but it didn't matter.)

r2: infect
g1: he mulled to 4, but his scry on top was a tropical island. he double pondered and killed me after countering my only spell.
g2: i brought in an ensnaring bridge. i cast it, he let it resolve. then he asked to take back and i was feeling nice. i put it in my graveyard. died shortly after.
(we played a bunch for fun and he beat me pretty much every time, so i don't have high hopes for this matchup, at least in the configuration without maindeck lightning bolts.)

r3: enchantress
g1: i can't recall that much, but i had a string of spells to kill within first 3 turns.
g2: he had out a turn 3 gaddock teeg. i played turn 3 guttersnipe. on his turn 4 he didn't have anything eventful. on my turn 4 i had 3 lands so i cast, desperate ritual bonus round, luts (for R) and flipped more luts, cast LED from hand and deal 20 pretty easily.

r4: jeskai ascendancy deck
g1: he forces bonus round, and i have a luts that lands a string of spells into a burning wish led tendrils.
g2: he has 3 forces and 2 flusterstorm, i run out of gas.
g3: guttersnipe almost gets there, but i am short a mana. i also stupidly burning wished mainphase and grabbed empty when i should have grabbed a RoF. pretty sure guttersnipe would have been lethal at that point as he survived at 4 life and i had a PiF in the graveyard.

overall had a fun time.

list can be found here:
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/695861#paper

intuition was pretty good. i think the deck was honestly fine, but i can see a good argument for running maindeck bolts or maindeck empty the warrens.

It was nice meeting you! Hope you had fun.

[mistercakes]

it was fun :)

hope to come back.

[JosefK]

Ok, league report with mistercakes latest list.

I did not feel like buying an expensive ensnaring bridge online, so i switched it for hope of ghirapur because i miss playing with it :)

Match 1, ANT, lost die roll.
As i said in my last post, these where 2 quick games.
G1) he discards a burning wish from my hand t1 and i land a needle t1.
T2 he discards a seething song and goes for ad nauseaum, drawing looots of good stuff but no petal. He goes to three. I untap, draw burning wish, play rof lotus petal wish for grapeshot and win.
G2) he cantrips t1, goes for ad nauseam t2, draw looots of good stuff but no petal. Goes to 5 life.
I once again have a t1 needle, into t2 seething song, AoI which gives me LED, Ruby medallion and burning wish. Ez win.

1-0

Match 2 vs Grixis delver win die roll
G1) he has alot of threats, but no interaction at all, i land a t3 ruby and win t4 with grapeshot after a pif and lots of exile spells
G2) I keep a wish for goblins hand that gets destroyed by a t1 discard spell and i never recover
G3) I start with needle which gets wastelanded, t2 i RoF out a ruby, no more mana in hand so it felt hard winning from there. He cantrips t2 and t3 but lands no threat. T3 i draw land, On my t4 i draw a manamorphose, cast it, draws led, having PiF in hand, i think about it for awhile but decides that this is my best shot, certain that he would pierce/fluster/daze/fow anything. He has nothing and i get to resolve bonus round from my yard and win easily.

2-0!

Match 3 vs dnt, win die roll
G1) I tomb out a ruby t1, play a ruby t2, manamorphose, rof, wish for rof, rof, wish for goblins (something like that, its 14 goblins t2) He cant recover.
G2) He plays t2 canonist, i abrade it endstep, i have to decide on my turn if i should wait for something good or go for 10 goblins. As my only removal spell is already used i was a bit afraid of a thalia follow up so i go for 10 goblins, but he resolves a mother of runes and a jitte and win the race.
G3) He waste my t1 needle, i have nothing to do on t2 and t3, but he has neither thalia or canonist so on t4 i get a regular bonus round kill.

3-0

Match 4 vs sneak n show (i think, had personal tutors and a sneak attack) win the die roll
G1) I mulligan by accident a great hand. But mulligan into an insane hand. Unfortunately he has fow fluster spell pierce and then sneakattacks in an emrakul.
G2) I play needle and win t2 of a ruby, manamorphose seething song 2x AoI and see leds and wishes. He had no interaction
G3) He seems to make the mistake of thinking that leyline of sanctity is good. He has one t1 then seems stuck on 1 land and does not play anything. 8x Fiery confluence kill him.

4-0
Im going for the 5-0!

Match 5 vs burn, won the die roll
G1) have a great hand with needle tomb and ruby + luts and manamorphose. My t2 luts fizzle hard and he lands eidolon, i try to go for it but a fireblast kills me when i almost have enough for the "survive tendrils"
G2) I get to do 18 goblins t2 thanks to 3 LED. He had 19 life so i was thinking about going for tendrils instead, but he scoops to the 18 goblins.
G3) T2 pyrostatic pillar, no outs although i do try getting to tendrils flashback tendrils on t3, but fail.

4-1

Last time i played cantripless bonus round storm i got my only 0-5 league, so this definitely felt better :)
Overall i like the deck. It felt alot easier to play, but still some hard choices. Mostly regarding to plays like, "should i play seething song AoI this turn?, or wait to atleast get a land drop of it next turn". LutS is a lot more straight forward, cast it ASAP, cast it often, seems to be a good plan.

I never cast intuition once, had it some times but did not need it, boarded it out a lot. I never cast mizzix mastery or wished for bonus round. Boarded in guttersnipes some games but it never mattered. Never spectacled LutS, although it think LutS is a straight upgrade to AoI. Just to cast it as a t2 setup spell is great. The 2 absolute all stars for me is sandstone needle and LED, but i still don't think LED is playable without the exile spells, and it really sucks when you use sandstone needle t2 to cast ruby medallion, and then try to go off t3 and get stopped that you lose the needle.

I will play the deck at least one more league, but i will probably make some small changes, probably cut 1/2 intuition and maybe a bonus round for something(possibly Pif #3, card is insane) and make room in the board for 3-4 echoing truth and possibly flusterstorm/Pyroblast

I do think it's correct to not run reforge the soul if you don't run cantrips. In my version i would say that 50% of the time i cast it by setting it up with cantrips, 25% natural miracle, and the rest is hardcast. This deck does not need the effect as much as it already has more raw card draw.

[mistercakes]

that's a great report!

i think the intuitions can rather easily be lightning bolts or empty the warrens. lightning bolt would make some of the matchups a bit easier.

i'd probably consider running 2 bolts and 1 bonus round, or leave the BR in the sb and play 2 bolts + 1 empty. bolts cover those games vs thalia, eidolon and delvers game 1.

too bad losing to burn! with the blue in the deck to support intuition, it could easily be something like echoing truth out of the sb.

(i want to note though that i really love intuition and will still play them)

[8bit9mm]

So, I've been tinkering with the Ruby-side of things lately.
I'm a Painter player at heart, but I also played Storm (TES, ANT, and DDFT) exclusively for a couple years and got the itch again, so I figured I'd take a stab at one of the few storm decks I'd never played.

This is the list I've been currently messing around with:

4 Ancient Tomb
1 Arid Mesa
4 Bonus Round
4 Brainstorm
4 Burning Wish
4 Desperate Ritual
1 Island
4 Lotus Petal
4 Manamorphose
1 Mountain
2 Past in Flames
4 Ponder
4 Reforge the Soul
3 Rite of Flame
4 Ruby Medallion
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Seething Song
3 Volcanic Island
1 Wooded Foothills

Sideboard
1 Abrade
1 By Force
1 Empty the Warrens
2 Fiery Confluence
2 Flusterstorm
1 Grapeshot
1 Hazoret's Undying Fury
2 Hope of Ghirapur
1 Past in Flames
1 Pyroblast
1 Rite of Flame
1 Tendrils of Agony


The list has felt great. The Pyroblast could probably be anything else, but that may just be because I haven't run into Miracles on MTGO in quite a while.

Probably my favorite moment with the deck was playing against MUD.
Game 1, I went off on turn 2 after a turn 1 Medallion.
Game 2, my opp goes, turn 1 Metalworker, turn 2 Lodestone + Chalice on 1.
I proceed to take a couple of hits, then, through the Chalice and Lodestone, I'm able to make enough mana, wish for Grapeshot and kill his metalworker and Lodestone. Then, 2 turns later, I proceed to go off, through the Chalice (thank you Bonus Round) and kill him while I'm at 1 life.

I'm absolutely amazed at how this deck just plows through countermagic and hate. It just never feels too bad to be stopped by a Force or Fluster, because the threat density in this deck is so much higher than other storm decks. Hell, sometimes you just go off again, that very same turn. One Reforge can reset you and win the game.

I believe I'll be taking the deck to St. Louis for the 5k at the end of the month and we will see how it goes.
I imagine it'll be much harder to keep track of the insane amount of ridiculousness going on with this deck in paper, rather than just letting MTGO do all my math for me.

https://i.imgur.com/2afluXL.png?1

[JosefK]

Nice! I've played in paper a bit and tried using pen and paper at first but it got kind of messy so now i use colored dice. What can be a bit annoying in paper is that some opponents play sloppy and just "yeah whatever" and other opponents want everything correct with regards to how to handle bonus round triggers. I try to always announce the triggers and wait for a response, but some people just does not respond. Then i usually ask if they are ok with shortcutting to just putting all copies on the stack directly and that they need to shout if they want to respond to a bonus round trigger. The stack still can be really messy when casting hazorets with multiple copies.

How do you like the two basic lands in the main? I've played alot with just mountain, a lot with mountain and island, but currently play neither in favour of two simian spirit guides. I do go back an forth tho. The thing i dislike with the basic lands is that so often my main gameplan is to go T1 cantrip, T2 ancient tomb -> win. So i can't fetch for basics t1 anyway. But i'm curious about your opinion.

I love the second fiery confluence in the board, i usually cant decide if i want to board it in or leave it as a wish target.

One suggestion if you do think SB space is tight is to evaluate if you need the tendrils in the board. I did cut mine about 150-200 matches ago and not really missed it. It started with a feeling that every match i won could have been won without it. One thing i'm unsure about is if it will be problematic in paper, just because it's harder to count to 20 than 10. Still, on MTGO i feel confident that i don't need it.

Gonna try your list next league.

[mistercakes]

i think tendrils is really only necessary if you run LED, it allows you to steal a bit more games with some natural storm draws. i'm also considering creating some bonus round trigger cards and bonus round copy cards to help simplify how it all works for opponents.

[8bit9mm]

Nice! I've played in paper a bit and tried using pen and paper at first but it got kind of messy so now i use colored dice. What can be a bit annoying in paper is that some opponents play sloppy and just "yeah whatever" and other opponents want everything correct with regards to how to handle bonus round triggers. I try to always announce the triggers and wait for a response, but some people just does not respond. Then i usually ask if they are ok with shortcutting to just putting all copies on the stack directly and that they need to shout if they want to respond to a bonus round trigger. The stack still can be really messy when casting hazorets with multiple copies.

How do you like the two basic lands in the main? I've played alot with just mountain, a lot with mountain and island, but currently play neither in favour of two simian spirit guides. I do go back an forth tho. The thing i dislike with the basic lands is that so often my main gameplan is to go T1 cantrip, T2 ancient tomb -> win. So i can't fetch for basics t1 anyway. But i'm curious about your opinion.

I love the second fiery confluence in the board, i usually cant decide if i want to board it in or leave it as a wish target.

One suggestion if you do think SB space is tight is to evaluate if you need the tendrils in the board. I did cut mine about 150-200 matches ago and not really missed it. It started with a feeling that every match i won could have been won without it. One thing i'm unsure about is if it will be problematic in paper, just because it's harder to count to 20 than 10. Still, on MTGO i feel confident that i don't need it.

Gonna try your list next league.

Well, the base list is one that I got from Cliffy on Facebook and modified it slightly to my own liking, even though he suggested playing a mono-red version with Faithless Looting and Overmaster, saying that it was noticeably better. I, on the other hand, really like the consistency brought by Brainstorm and Ponder.

I've liked the 2 basics a lot so far. It allows you to play a more stable long-game, which is an aspect I enjoyed from playing ANT and DDFT in the past. I haven't tried Mana Monkeys yet, but I've been seeing them pop up. It's something I've been meaning to try out.

The 2nd Fiery Confluence has been great. I generally board one in for games 2-3, just so I have a kill condition if BW gets Surgicalled.
I also really like having the option to kill off a single Bonus Round trigger with a BW and a low storm count (given that you have enough mana to cast both Confluences).

I haven't felt that SB space is tight (yet). The Tendrils is probably the least useful card, but I will say it feels wrong to play a storm deck without it. I already feel that the Pyroblast is a flex slot. I will say that I'd like to try to fit in a couple of Surgicals in the board, or even a Silent Gravestone or two.

Something I've been meaning to try out is an Intuition in the main. My problem is that I don't know what to cut for it.


i think tendrils is really only necessary if you run LED, it allows you to steal a bit more games with some natural storm draws. i'm also considering creating some bonus round trigger cards and bonus round copy cards to help simplify how it all works for opponents.

Let me know if you end up coming up with a design. I'd be interested.
Although, I might pick up some of these, just to represent the stack, in the meantime:
https://static.wixstatic.com/media/6588e7_3ae8070eb0a5449187c7517e6a823ee0~mv2.jpg/v1/fit/w_498,h_339,q_90/file.jpg

[JosefK]

Well it went pretty good. Got a 5-0 :D

To tired to write a full report, but my matchups where pretty good
2-0 vs grixis control. Went as usual, they have too few counters and reforge&pif > hymn
2-1 vs ANT I love the combo mirror, won t2 game 1, then two long games with lots of flusterstorms being cast.
2-0 vs eldrazi he did not cast any Thought-Knot Seer.
2-1 vs maverick(i think) lost a game due to mana issues, other than that 2 quick kills
2-0 vs elves won t2 g1, g2 he got a teeg that was a bit annoying, but found a burning wish

My impressions of the changes where not that many :)

Maindeck differences: (2 basics vs 2 SSG, an pif#2 instead of intuition, 6th fetch instead of 4th volcanic)
I disliked the basic lands, they only mattered one game vs maverick, i mulled to 6 OTD with island as my only mana source, and 5 red cards, all i needed was to draw a red source to win, but never happened. I never fetched for basic if i had the opportunity to go for volcanic.
PiF vs intuition i cannot say, did not really come up. I do like pif a lot, and its nice when you bonus round a reforge and really fill your graveyard. But intiution usually gets 2 rof and a pif, so it's a bit like a flexible pif.
I almost lost because of lacking the fourth volcanic, but that was mostly my own fault as i'd just forgotten that i only had 3, and boarded out the basics (vs ant).

Sideboard differences: (2 hope vs 2 empty, by force vs echoing truth, fiery confluence #2 vs flusterstorm #3) I did cut tendrils for a surgical, as i feel really confident that i don't need it.
Hope vs empty did not matter, did not board any in, and would not have boarded in empty. But i do love hope.
I never used by force, i would have boarded it in vs eldrazi, but i had forgotten it.
Surgical saved me vs ANT.
Did like the second fiery confluence. Did not really come up, but felt good to have one main and one sideboard.

I do think i'm going to try to get room for Fiery confluence #2, but i really do think that sideboard space is tight.

[mistercakes]

Well, the base list is one that I got from Cliffy on Facebook and modified it slightly to my own liking, even though he suggested playing a mono-red version with Faithless Looting and Overmaster, saying that it was noticeably better. I, on the other hand, really like the consistency brought by Brainstorm and Ponder.

I've liked the 2 basics a lot so far. It allows you to play a more stable long-game, which is an aspect I enjoyed from playing ANT and DDFT in the past. I haven't tried Mana Monkeys yet, but I've been seeing them pop up. It's something I've been meaning to try out.

The 2nd Fiery Confluence has been great. I generally board one in for games 2-3, just so I have a kill condition if BW gets Surgicalled.
I also really like having the option to kill off a single Bonus Round trigger with a BW and a low storm count (given that you have enough mana to cast both Confluences).

I haven't felt that SB space is tight (yet). The Tendrils is probably the least useful card, but I will say it feels wrong to play a storm deck without it. I already feel that the Pyroblast is a flex slot. I will say that I'd like to try to fit in a couple of Surgicals in the board, or even a Silent Gravestone or two.

Something I've been meaning to try out is an Intuition in the main. My problem is that I don't know what to cut for it.



Let me know if you end up coming up with a design. I'd be interested.
Although, I might pick up some of these, just to represent the stack, in the meantime:
https://static.wixstatic.com/media/6588e7_3ae8070eb0a5449187c7517e6a823ee0~mv2.jpg/v1/fit/w_498,h_339,q_90/file.jpg

The copy one seems great, I'd recommend having something with maybe the bonus round art on it, as the copies only resolve one at a time, so you will only have one copy of a given spell on the stack at a time, the rest will be bonus round triggers.

[mistercakes]

https://www.thewordfinder.com/wof-puzzle-generator/puzzle.php?bg=1&ln1=&ln2=Bonus%20Round%20&ln3=Trigger!%20&ln4=&cat=Confusing%20cards&

Forgive the size.

[8bit9mm]

Well it went pretty good. Got a 5-0 :D

To tired to write a full report, but my matchups where pretty good
2-0 vs grixis control. Went as usual, they have too few counters and reforge&pif > hymn
2-1 vs ANT I love the combo mirror, won t2 game 1, then two long games with lots of flusterstorms being cast.
2-0 vs eldrazi he did not cast any Thought-Knot Seer.
2-1 vs maverick(i think) lost a game due to mana issues, other than that 2 quick kills
2-0 vs elves won t2 g1, g2 he got a teeg that was a bit annoying, but found a burning wish

My impressions of the changes where not that many :)

Maindeck differences: (2 basics vs 2 SSG, an pif#2 instead of intuition, 6th fetch instead of 4th volcanic)
I disliked the basic lands, they only mattered one game vs maverick, i mulled to 6 OTD with island as my only mana source, and 5 red cards, all i needed was to draw a red source to win, but never happened. I never fetched for basic if i had the opportunity to go for volcanic.
PiF vs intuition i cannot say, did not really come up. I do like pif a lot, and its nice when you bonus round a reforge and really fill your graveyard. But intiution usually gets 2 rof and a pif, so it's a bit like a flexible pif.
I almost lost because of lacking the fourth volcanic, but that was mostly my own fault as i'd just forgotten that i only had 3, and boarded out the basics (vs ant).

Sideboard differences: (2 hope vs 2 empty, by force vs echoing truth, fiery confluence #2 vs flusterstorm #3) I did cut tendrils for a surgical, as i feel really confident that i don't need it.
Hope vs empty did not matter, did not board any in, and would not have boarded in empty. But i do love hope.
I never used by force, i would have boarded it in vs eldrazi, but i had forgotten it.
Surgical saved me vs ANT.
Did like the second fiery confluence. Did not really come up, but felt good to have one main and one sideboard.

I do think i'm going to try to get room for Fiery confluence #2, but i really do think that sideboard space is tight.

Well, gratz on the 5-0!
Also, thank you for the feedback on some of the card choices.
I'm still hesitant on cutting the Tendrils, but I will say I'm considering cutting it and Pyroblast for 2 Surgicals.
By Force is a carry-over from me playing lots of TES and DDFT in the past. I actually prefer Meltdown, but I don't like the thought of it melting our own Medallion.
Hope has been an allstar for me. The list I was given had 2 Defense Grids in that spot, but I've been liking Hope much more.
The more and more I play this deck online, the more I think the 2 Fiery Confluence in the board is almost necessary. I find myself going for the Bonus Rounded Burning wish for both Confluences quite often, as it saves a lot of time. Also, I almost always board one in for g2-3.

@mistercakes:
I may have ordered a test batch of custom printed cards with that "Wheel of Fortune" image on it.
I'll post pictures when I receive them, but, I'm not really sure how long that will take.

[mistercakes]

Mizzix's Mastery is also a great option for killing if you have bonus round + enough mana for 4cc+4cc.

Or if you run 1 bonus round in the board you can get away with it for 5cc with a Ruby in play.

[JosefK]

.
By Force is a carry-over from me playing lots of TES and DDFT in the past. I actually prefer Meltdown, but I don't like the thought of it melting our own Medallion.
Hope has been an allstar for me. The list I was given had 2 Defense Grids in that spot, but I've been liking Hope much more.


Yeah the original list that i gave to Togores & Cliffy back in september had 2 hope of ghirapur, i think he just switched them for grid as the TES-players had not popularized it yet then so it probably felt a bit obscure. I agree that it's better.

I see that my 5-0 did not get posted as s8shock 5-0 a league for the second week in a row with UR-bonus, i saw he played in the format quarterly event on mtgo yesterday to a 5-3 finish. Not sure what he played there tho. Would be cool to hear his input if he reads here :) I played in it as well, but failed totally. Went 3-5, wins were 2x dredge and stoneblade. Losses to elves, miracles,grixis control, stoneblade and turbo depths. Felt disheartening, especially against grixis as it has been such a great matchup lately. Elves and turbo depths were 1-2 losses where they both had one t2 kill(or at least t2 marit lage) OTP and i had games where i mulliganed to 5.

I've said it before, but this time i think i really will take a long break from the deck and legacy/mtgo in general. When (it's always when, not if, with regard to mtg) i come back i hope there are some new cool lists to play around with. I give it about 63% chance that i don't play again within a week :P

[8bit9mm]

Mizzix's Mastery is also a great option for killing if you have bonus round + enough mana for 4cc+4cc.

Or if you run 1 bonus round in the board you can get away with it for 5cc with a Ruby in play.

Mizzix's Mastery is the definition of overkill if it ever gets overloaded. Seems pretty on-theme for Ruby Storm :tongue:


I've said it before, but this time i think i really will take a long break from the deck and legacy/mtgo in general. When (it's always when, not if, with regard to mtg) i come back i hope there are some new cool lists to play around with. I give it about 63% chance that i don't play again within a week :P

I think we're all hoping for the 37% to end up on top.

[mistercakes]

Yea with that play you actually cast Fiery Confluence for 12 damage, then cast mizzix copying Fiery Confluence and get a copy. Resolve copy first targeting bonus round, then resolve the original mizzix to deal 24 more. :)

I really like it if you have something like turn 1 ruby, turn 2 seething song, bonus round, wish. Get mizzix and hazoret's. Cast mizzix targeting seething song, copy hits bonus round. Resolve bonus round, then resolve original (get 20 red mana). Cast hazorets with 3 bonus round triggers. Good luck losing this one.

[8bit9mm]

Yea with that play you actually cast Fiery Confluence for 12 damage, then cast mizzix copying Fiery Confluence and get a copy. Resolve copy first targeting bonus round, then resolve the original mizzix to deal 24 more. :)

I really like it if you have something like turn 1 ruby, turn 2 seething song, bonus round, wish. Get mizzix and hazoret's. Cast mizzix targeting seething song, copy hits bonus round. Resolve bonus round, then resolve original (get 20 red mana). Cast hazorets with 3 bonus round triggers. Good luck losing this one.

I had to read that 3-4 times just to properly visualize the stack and make sense of what was going on.
I must need more coffee.

[UnOrthodox Bird]

Fiery Confluence was not a card I ever pictured being good when I first saw it. Then I saw it played in Red Stompy and thought "Hm, yeah, this card is okay". Then I played it in UR Ruby Storm last night and thought "Wow, this basically being at the worst 4 bolts to the face with Bonus Round is sort of nuts".

[8bit9mm]

So, brought the deck to the St. Louis 5k for Charity at Moonbase Market on Saturday.
This was my first time playing the deck in paper and I only realistically had 10-ish matches under my belt on MTGO.
I will say that it didn't take long for me to get into the swing of storm-things again, so that was good.
Ended up going 4-3, deciding to eschew the final round, since I was mentally drained (and also to play and beat Time Crisis 3 with my buddy). Not great, but definitely not the worst I've ever done.

Round 1: Trinity Tell
Game 1: I ground through Force, Surgical and Echoing Truth on my Goblins and eventually Grapeshot him over the course of two turns
Game 2: He drops a turn 2 Axe-Hands and I succumb to 7/7 beats and infinite countermagic, even though I was keeping pace with his card advantage at one point.
Game 3: I take a crack from a Sneak-Attacked Emrakul, going to 2, losing 3 lands and 2 Medallions. Kept a Petal in hand and if I would have drawn another mana-source in 5 turns after, I could have attempted to go-off again, but he eventually found a G-Brand to finish me off

0-1

Round 2: Elves!
Game 1: Lose the roll and opponent leads on Fyndhorn Elves. I play a turn 1 Medallion and Pass. Turn 2 my opponent has a full board and I was definitely sweating it for a second, but I'm able to go off on my turn 2 with Bonus Rounded double Fiery Confluences.
Game 2: My opponent leads off on a turn zero Leyline of the Void, which I expected something of the sort and boarded out one PiF for one Confluence. I end up going for it on my turn three and my opponent packs it in with a Burning Wish and 3 Bonus Round triggers on the stack.

1-1

Round 3: Eldrazi Post
Game 1: My opponent drops a turn 2 Trinishpere, I make my 3rd land-drop, Burning Wish for By Force, shatter the 3-ball on my 4th turn and then go-off on turn 5.
Game 2: A quick Thought-Knot and a large Ballista close out the game.
Game 3: Land, go. Opponent plays a turn 1 Voltaic Key. I make my 2nd land drop and proceed to go-off.
NOTE: This was my favorite opponent from the entire event (even though he was packing Chalices and 3-Balls). He was loving every minute of our match and asked for my decklist after we were done. Hopefully he sleeves it up at some point.

2-1

Round 4: Esper Stoneblade
Game 1: I keep a hand with no red source, but an island and double Ponder, so I keep. I don't find another red source for 4-ish turns, but when I do, I attempt to go off (with quad Seething Songs and double Burning Wish in hand). 1st Seething Song is met with actual, factual Counterspell. 2nd Seething Song is met with Snapcaster-actual-factual-Counterspell. 3rd Seething Song gets through and I proceed to go off, playing around the fact that my opponent could swords his own Batterskull to go up to 21 life and I Grapeshot him for 22 (thanks Doishy for all your ridiculously complicated DDFT puzzles).
Game 2: I go draw go with my opponent for a few turns, sculpting my hand because I was under no pressure. When I decide to pull the trigger, my first Bonus Round is met with Counterspell. My second Bonus Round is met with Flusterstorm. When the dust settled, I ended my turn with 24 goblins. My opponent casts multiple Ponders and Brainstorms on his turn looking for (what he told me after the match) Zealous Persecution, which I'm glad that he didn't find and he succumbed to the horde of little green men.

3-1

Round 5: Mono-Red Prison
Game 1: I By Force his turn 2 Trinisphere, but am unable to find another wish in time and die to Rabble-beats
Game 2: I abrade his Scab-Clan, Confluence his 3-Ball, but am unable to rebuild in time and end up dying to Legion Warboss and Chandra

3-2

Round 6: Maverick
Game 1: He has beaters and a SOFI, but no hatebears, so I'm able to snatch lethal while he had lethal on board.
Game 2: He has a turn 2 Thalia into a Qasali Pride-Mage for my Medallion and I get beaten to death.
Game 3: He has a Teeg, Knight and Hierarch (after Pride-Mage-ing my Medallion, again), but no lands in the yard, so I'm able to Grapeshot his board away and deal 3 to his face. He peels a Thalia into SOFI and I'm unable to rebuild in time to beat his board.
NOTE:Felt bad to lose to Maverick, because I honestly can't remember the last time that happened to me, but hey, it's Legacy and anything can beat anything with a little luck and skill.

3-3

Round 7: Miracles
Game 1: He scoops to 14 goblins on turn 2 through a Force of Will.
Game 2: I go draw-go for a few turns, sculpting my hand (expecting to have to go-off through multiple counterspells). He eventually Cliques me, sees my hand (which is all gas) and he lets me keep everything (bad sign). I attempt to combo-off, am met with a Counterspell. Go for it again the next turn, get Snap-Counterspelled. Try for a 3rd time, make 16 goblins and am met with an Izzet Staticaster on end-step. I walked right into it, but still would never expect it. I end up dying to blue-dork beats.
Game 3:We have a lot of back and forth and I eventually make 18 goblins with him at 17 life. I pass it back and he drops an EE for zero, wiping away my horde. More back and forth and I eventually get there with Fiery Confluence and 3 Bonus Round Triggers after Flustering his Fluster and having him Surgical my Rite of Flames and Seething Songs out of my deck.

4-3

List:

4 Ancient Tomb
1 Arid Mesa
4 Bonus Round
4 Brainstorm
4 Burning Wish
4 Desperate Ritual
1 Island
4 Lotus Petal
4 Manamorphose
1 Mountain
2 Past in Flames
4 Ponder
4 Reforge the Soul
3 Rite of Flame
4 Ruby Medallion
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Seething Song
3 Volcanic Island
1 Wooded Foothills

Sideboard
1 Abrade
1 By Force
1 Empty the Warrens
2 Fiery Confluence
2 Flusterstorm
1 Grapeshot
1 Hazoret's Undying Fury
2 Hope of Ghirapur
1 Past in Flames
1 Rite of Flame
2 Surgical Extraction


I ended up cutting the Tendrils and Pyroblast for 2 Surgicals. I didn't need them all day, but it's hard to leave home without them these days.
I didn't miss the Tendrils at all and never felt like I needed it.
I never cast Hazoret's the entire day. I could have at a couple points, but I was too chicken-shit to take the chance on it and generally decided to wait the extra turn or so for a deterministic kill.
I do feel like I could have used a 2nd Abrade or an Echoing Truth and I wouldn't have been opposed to having a 3rd Fluster, but other than that, the deck felt great. I really like where the maindeck is at and even though it's a point of contention, I really do like having both basics.
Double Fiery Confluence in the SB felt perfect and I'll definitely be keeping that for the foreseeable future.

I want to give a big shout-out to all of my opponents. Every single one of them was a good sport and a joy to play against. Most were amused that I had built the deck entirely in Japanese wtih FBB Volcs and never had an issue calling a judge for oracle text.
Speaking of, 6 out of my 7 rounds, my opponent called a judge for the oracle text on Bonus Round (which is understandable). After round 3, the judges just started to think it was funny.

I also want to give a shout-out to Jeremy for organizing such an amazing event (and for giving me one of his precious Japanese Banana Kit-Kats) and to Moonbase Market for hosting the event and having awesome, friendly staff (especially at the bar).

All in all, I had an absolute blast playing the deck in this event and I'm excited to be Bonus-Rounding at GP Niagara later this month.

Bonus Round:
I get home Sunday afternoon, open my mailbox and what do I find?
Some Bonus Round trigger tokens!
https://i.imgur.com/KlIVPnF.jpg?2

Thanks to mistercakes for the source image.

[JosefK]

Great report! Thanks a lot for writing it. I understand how losing to maverick feels, but some times they just draw the right hate at the right time. Same with mono red prison, I feel favoured g1, and favoured to win the match if I win g1. But you can't win all the time :)

Looking forward to your Niagara report :)

[8bit9mm]

Great report! Thanks a lot for writing it. I understand how losing to maverick feels, but some times they just draw the right hate at the right time. Same with mono red prison, I feel favoured g1, and favoured to win the match if I win g1. But you can't win all the time :)

Looking forward to your Niagara report :)

Yeah, in general, I don't think Maverick is something I really ever need to worry about.
My opponent was a good player and correctly identified that he needed to deal with the Medallion if he wanted his hate to be effective.

I think that the newer builds of Mono-Red are actually a little scarier, since they have 8 Rabble-effects, which makes their clock faster and more consistent.
We definitely have the tools to deal with their lock pieces, but if they can establish pressure in the meantime, things get much more difficult and that is exactly what happened in both games (dealt with their hate, but died to their pressure).

[esthoril]

So I've spent my evening trying to get a good (or is it fun?) build breaking Experimental Frenzy. This is what I came up with. Still a lot of questions though about the exact numbers on a lot of cards. But it can go bananas really fast. Playing your entire deck as early as T1.

Should we play Burning wish? Bonus Round? Empty main?

1 Taiga
4 Land Grant
4 lotus Petal
3 Chrome Mox
4 Mox Opal
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
2 Simian Spirit Guide

4 Helm of Awakening
4 Ruby Medallion

4 Rite of Flame
4 Desperate Ritual
4 Seething Song
3 Pyretic Ritual

4 Manamorphose
4 Burning Wish
4 Experimental Frenzy
3 Act on Impulse (given Reforge is a nonbo with Frenzy but still might be better as we don't always have Frenzy)
-- 60

SB
1 Hazoret's Undying Fury
1 Past in Flames
1 Grapeshot
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Empty the Warrens
...

[mistercakes]

I think you'll have more fun playing doomsday with experimental frenzy. Check out the discord. It's a two card combo that wins on the spot.

[esthoril]

I think you'll have more fun playing doomsday with experimental frenzy. Check out the discord. It's a two card combo that wins on the spot.
Already messed around with it. Will check the discord. But even though it's a nice interaction, I'm aiming for a one-card combo here. Resolv Frenzy, play your deck, win.

[[reptiLe]]

Already messed around with it. Will check the discord. But even though it's a nice interaction, I'm aiming for a one-card combo here. Resolv Frenzy, play your deck, win.
resolve doomsday, play your deck, win.

[mistercakes]

Already messed around with it. Will check the discord. But even though it's a nice interaction, I'm aiming for a one-card combo here. Resolv Frenzy, play your deck, win.

the deck has two 1 card combos:

1) doomsday. you build a 5 card deck that wins the game. standard easiest no interaction pile is LED LED LED Tendrils of Agony Doomsday
2) Lim-Dul's vault. you set your deck so the top 5 cards of your deck involve LED + Doomsday in that order, or if you have another black mana, you can cast dark ritual into doomsday.

not sure what you're hoping to get out of this with red storm, which doesn't really manipulate the top of the deck very well comparatively.

[esthoril]

the deck has two 1 card combos:

1) doomsday. you build a 5 card deck that wins the game. standard easiest no interaction pile is LED LED LED Tendrils of Agony Doomsday
2) Lim-Dul's vault. you set your deck so the top 5 cards of your deck involve LED + Doomsday in that order, or if you have another black mana, you can cast dark ritual into doomsday.


How is this a one-card combo? You need Experimental Frenzy + Doomsday. That's two cards. Same with Lim-dul's vault.

- Experimental Frenzy in play + doomsday = 2 cards.
- Experimental Frenzy in play + lim-dul's vault = 2 cards.
- Experimentel Frenzy = 1 card.

Same reply to Reptile. You only play your 5-card deck after resolving Doomsday if you already have the second part of the combo - Experimental Frenzy - in play. Quite disappointed that in a thread like this people don't seem to know the difference between a one-card and two-card combo.



not sure what you're hoping to get out of this with red storm, which doesn't really manipulate the top of the deck very well comparatively.

The idea is you dont need to manipulate the top of your deck as there are no lands and plenty of free artifacts/rituals to allow you to proceed to just play all of it.

[mistercakes]

ah sorry, misunderstood. yea i've tried this mono red version with all this stuff, and it's not very good. when you get risky and play 1 land, land grant kind of stuff you more or less should just be playing belcher or oops all spells.

[8bit9mm]

So, I saw this last night and was thinking about it.

Experimental Frenzy is a cool card, but in all reality, I think it is only viable in DDFT (RIP in pepperonis my old friend) and in the SB of Lands if you're feeling spicy.

In current builds of Ruby (either mono-red or UR), after you resolve a Bonus Round, you essentially are able to play your entire deck if you so choose.
Experimental Frenzy isn't really needed for that.
Also, Frenzy is actively bad with anything that draws you a card, a la Manamorphose.

Also, something to keep in mind, Burning Wish does not work favorably with Frenzy, since the card you are wishing for goes to your hand, not the top of the deck. Thus, you'll have to blow up your own Frenzy to be able to use the business spell you just wished for.

Edit: You could pull some shenanigans with LED and PiF to get around the Frenzy clause (I think), but then you open yourself up to being reliant on the graveyard, instead of just being able to utilize it as a resource.

[mistercakes]

So, I saw this last night and was thinking about it.

Experimental Frenzy is a cool card, but in all reality, I think it is only viable in DDFT (RIP in pepperonis my old friend) and in the SB of Lands if you're feeling spicy.

In current builds of Ruby (either mono-red or UR), after you resolve a Bonus Round, you essentially are able to play your entire deck if you so choose.
Experimental Frenzy isn't really needed for that.
Also, Frenzy is actively bad with anything that draws you a card, a la Manamorphose.

Also, something to keep in mind, Burning Wish does not work favorably with Frenzy, since the card you are wishing for goes to your hand, not the top of the deck. Thus, you'll have to blow up your own Frenzy to be able to use the business spell you just wished for.

Edit: You could pull some shenanigans with LED and PiF to get around the Frenzy clause (I think), but then you open yourself up to being reliant on the graveyard, instead of just being able to utilize it as a resource.

it's also terrible with burning wish...

[[reptiLe]]

Quite disappointed that in a thread like this people don't seem to know the difference between a one-card and two-card combo..

With all the truly cringeworthy ideas being brought up on this thread, THAT is what disappoints you?

[Trigunner]

Hello everyone!

I finally finished this deck in paper (LEDs are borrowed though) and plan to play it at the Legacy FNM this week. You can find my list below.

I talked with another Ruby Storm player at the LGS, he had some success with the deck the last few times. I have never played the Legacy FNM at our LGS before, but the guy told me the meta has a lot of Death and Taxes, Dredge, Ad Nauseam, and a few Show and Tell, Reanimator, Dragon Stompy and then all kinds of other decks. I think there are about 12-19 players usually and it's not always the same people, so the meta isn't super consistent. But Death and Taxes has the biggest share, so I should be prepared for that and also be aware of a variance of combo decks. The other Ruby Storm player said he doesn't play Past in Flames in the main and has Pyrite Spellbomb main to be able to kill Ethersworn Canonist and other hatebears through Mother of Runes.

I would love to get your opinions on my main and especially on my sideboard in regard to my meta. The Commune with Lava is just for testing atm. Maybe I switch that for a Pyrite Spellbomb?

Main:

4x Bonus Round
2x Past in Flames
1x Fiery Confluence
2x Empty the Warrens

4x Burning Wish
4x Act on Impulse
4x Light Up the Stage
1x Commune with Lava
4x Manamorphose

3x Rite of Flame
4x Seething Song

4x Lion's Eye Diamond
4x Lotus Petal
4x Ruby Medallion

8x Mountain
4x Sandstone Needle
3x Ancient Tomb


Sideboard:

1x Rite of Flame
1x Mizzix's Mastery
1x Past in Flames
1x Hazoret's Undying Fury

1x Grapeshot
1x Empty the Warrens
1x Tendrils of Agony

1x By Force
1x Cave-In
1x Fiery Confluence

2x Scab-Clan Berserker
3x Tormod's Crypt

[esthoril]

it's also terrible with burning wish...
Given Burning Wish is the only win-con in my list, let's say it's a not an issue at all. You generate so much mana so easily, it does not really matter when you wish for something (or if you draw a card from manamorphose). Often you end up playing multiple Frenzies when churning through the deck. You just blow them all up when you had enough of playing cards and play the kill card you wished for.

[mistercakes]

i'm not going to debate the merits and demerits of your list. just test the list, and let us how it goes. i'm happy to listen to some results. i've considered frenzy in the sb at some times, but it's a bit worse when you don't have ponder/brainstorm/preordain to help manipulate the deck.

of course you can have a "1 card combo" if you can manipulate getting LED or lotus petal(s) off the top into a string of spells. the real question is, how reliable is it when you're not goldfishing?



anyway, this was tested a bunch in multiple threads:

http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?32736-Mono-Red-Experimental-Frenzy&highlight=frenzy
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?32825-Hot-Coffee-1-Land-Frenzy-Storm&highlight=frenzy
and
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/articles/much-abrew-experimental-cheerios-legacy-magic-online (which actually had okay results)


feel free to keep brewing as it's important in legacy, but i think you'll get some feedback you don't like as we've more or less crossed this off the list (ideas were already brought up in october/november.)

-rob

[JosefK]

He also plays some number of Empty the Warrens main to have a better game 1 against other combo decks. I adapted that for now.

Can you explain that reasoning?
In my experience empty is good vs delver and miracles, and not that good vs the rest of the field. I think my suggestion would be to cut those for lightning bolts.

[8bit9mm]

https://i.imgur.com/83f0xlX.jpg?1
https://i.imgur.com/dnKEUrD.jpg?5
https://i.imgur.com/DxzpXHF.jpg?2
https://i.imgur.com/ZgGn0F5.jpg?2
https://i.imgur.com/aJwivsn.jpg?1
https://i.imgur.com/0WuN19Q.jpg?1
https://i.imgur.com/pOdBZRH.jpg?1

SB:
https://i.imgur.com/wtEwMwo.jpg?1
https://i.imgur.com/bKeOWD8.jpg?1

[JosefK]

Woah, that's huge :)
Love the dedication!

[Trigunner]

Can you explain that reasoning?
In my experience empty is good vs delver and miracles, and not that good vs the rest of the field. I think my suggestion would be to cut those for lightning bolts.

Oh, I think you are right, against other combo EtW wouldn't be that good. My thought was EtW gives you more turn one wins, wich in reality are turn 3 wins. I didn't think that through to the end and the other guy may not have reasoned it like that? To my defense I was ill when writing that (and still am). Adding Lightning Bolt instead makes sense, thanks!

[ronco]

might be too cute/win more, but this just got spoiled:
http://www.magicspoiler.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/Saheeli-Sublime-Artificer.jpg?x94614

Makes copies of rubies (or lotus petals) until EOT, and gives us a YP effect, more or less. casting in the first place is probably a bit of a distraction from the main game plan but it does provide an alternative win con as well.

Probably not worth the cut, but maybe someone will have a better idea than i will.

[8bit9mm]

Woah, that's huge :)
Love the dedication!

To be fair, I already owned the manabase, cantrips, petals and the non-wish target SB cards.
Every deck I build in Legacy is non-foil Japanese :)

I have a Japanese Intuition somewhere as well, just haven't gotten time to properly test it online yet.

[mistercakes]

To be fair, I already owned the manabase, cantrips, petals and the non-wish target SB cards.
Every deck I build in Legacy is non-foil Japanese :)

I have a Japanese Intuition somewhere as well, just haven't gotten time to properly test it online yet.

i'll have to post mine when i have time, but i still need 1 more ancient tomb (exp) and some fetches. i sold off my fbb's a while back except some non volcs!

[jugglervr]

IIRC, some prior nonsense about rishadan port

Did you ever find any success with ports? I wanted to try them out back when you mentioned them on, I think, reddit... but my deck was dismantled at the time.

[mistercakes]

oh i hadn't tried it much. only tested it one night vs a friend playing delver and my draws in general were rough. (i wasn't testing sandstone needle at the time either).

i think if you can make it work it could be great, but i really think sandstone needle is a much stronger card for casting bonus round.

also:


https://i.imgur.com/MjkSOAh.png

Ral, Storm Conduit 2UR

Whenever you cast or copy an instant or sorcery spell, Ral, Storm Conduit deals 1 damage to target opponent or planeswalker.

+2 Scry 1.

-2 When you cast your next instant or sorcery spell this turn, copy that spell. You may choose new targets for the copy.

(4)

i think it's great for ruby storm.

cast ral, pass turn.

following turn: -2, cast bonus round (get a copy) deal 2 damage.

cast lightning bolt. (get 3 copies), deal 16 damage. (if you have any other spell you're way ahead.)

seems pretty great! obviously you don't really need bolt, as casting some ritual effect is already really sick.

-2, cast seething song, get 10 red mana and deal 2 damage is a great way to start off the turn.
-2, cast manamorphose, get 4 mana + 2 cards and 2 damage.

his other ability +2, is great vs the slower control decks too.

i'm not sure if he's 100% good enough for the deck, but he merits testing.

[JosefK]

I think Ral is cool, 4 mana is alot, and needing both blue and red cuts off seething song to cast it. So it might be a bit too slow, but the effect is really really really good. It will suck to draw when the opponent already has creatures on board. Could be a sideboard card against miracles/grixis control.

On the topic of sideboard. Say you play UR (or i guess it could apply to monored as well), you are going to play 5 games vs delver decks (a mix of grixis, ur, uw and rug) with your life on stake. You get to select 5 cards for your sideboard. What would you pick?

Your current sideboard is
1 Grapeshot
1 Pif
1 RoF
1 Empty
1 huf
2 Fiery Confluence
3 flusterstorm

[mistercakes]

On the topic of sideboard. Say you play UR (or i guess it could apply to monored as well), you are going to play 5 games vs delver decks (a mix of grixis, ur, uw and rug) with your life on stake. You get to select 5 cards for your sideboard. What would you pick?

Your current sideboard is
1 Grapeshot
1 Pif
1 RoF
1 Empty
1 huf
2 Fiery Confluence
3 flusterstorm

i think extra empty the warrens is what i see TES and ANT go for against the non sweeper versions. i like abrade a lot even though it doesn't hit the dome, but it does double up against stompy decks.

bolt is also great vs delver, sometimes you can hit their creatures and then the clocks are too slow. i also like an echoing truth or two.

[jugglervr]

On the topic of sideboard. Say you play UR (or i guess it could apply to monored as well), you are going to play 5 games vs delver decks (a mix of grixis, ur, uw and rug) with your life on stake. You get to select 5 cards for your sideboard. What would you pick?

I like [sudden shock] a LOT in the sb. Thalia is really annoying and being able to nerf her is gold. They also kill flipped delvers guaranteed, can sneak a kill on a [monastery mentor], and still add up to decent damage with bonus rounds (It's not uncommon for me to deal 16 with a sudden shock, which is often enough to kill a thoughtseize deck)

[JosefK]

Both bolt and sudden shock have utility, i'm looking more for something like "if i draw this i win" card, like leyline vs reanimator. I realize that it does not exist, but i'm curious about what's closest. My guess is that it's either empty or chalice, but maybe it exists even better cards :)

[mistercakes]

Both bolt and sudden shock have utility, i'm looking more for something like "if i draw this i win" card, like leyline vs reanimator. I realize that it does not exist, but i'm curious about what's closest. My guess is that it's either empty or chalice, but maybe it exists even better cards :)

telemin performance or bribery, probably a bit too slow.

otherwise typical graveyard hate would apply here.

for really crazy stuff you can check out:


Hallowed Moonlight 1White (2)
Instant
Until end of turn, if a creature would enter the battlefield and it wasn't cast, exile it instead.

Draw a card.

OR


Mistcaller Blue (1)
Creature — Merfolk Wizard (1/1)
Sacrifice Mistcaller: Until end of turn, if a nontoken creature would enter the battlefield and it wasn't cast, exile it instead.

[JosefK]

Well, I ment a card vs delver, that has the same amount of effect as leyline has vs reanimator.

[mistercakes]

Well, I ment a card vs delver, that has the same amount of effect as leyline has vs reanimator.


probably just play more flusterstorm. divert could also be fun.

[mistercakes]

i've been tinkering around a lot on cockatrice as wanted to put in a little more effort with the blue versions as it seems to be what more people want to play.


// 60 Maindeck
// 11 Artifact
4 Lotus Petal
4 Ruby Medallion
3 Lion's Eye Diamond

// 12 Instant
4 Manamorphose
4 Seething Song
4 Brainstorm

// 14 Land
2 Ancient Tomb
3 Sandstone Needle
1 Mountain
2 Scalding Tarn
3 Volcanic Island
2 Arid Mesa
1 Bloodstained Mire

// 23 Sorcery
3 Rite of Flame
4 Burning Wish
2 Past in Flames
4 Bonus Round
3 Act on Impulse
4 Ponder
3 Reforge the Soul


// 15 Sideboard
// 6 Instant
SB: 3 Flusterstorm
SB: 2 Echoing Truth
SB: 1 Abrade

// 9 Sorcery
SB: 1 Tendrils of Agony
SB: 1 Grapeshot
SB: 1 Empty the Warrens
SB: 1 Past in Flames
SB: 1 Fiery Confluence
SB: 1 Hazoret's Undying Fury
SB: 1 Mizzix's Mastery
SB: 1 Rite of Flame
SB: 1 Act on Impulse


mizzix's mastery is not set in stone as it could be pretty much anything. likely the best card is surgical extraction or another abrade.

one interaction in this list that is rather nice:

bonus round resolved + brainstorm + led + AoI in hand. (with U)

play the LED, cast brainstorm. resolve first brainstorm putting AoI on top of deck, resp to second brainstorm crack LED, then you can cast AoI with the LED mana.

[8bit9mm]

Well, I ment a card vs delver, that has the same amount of effect as leyline has vs reanimator.

Empty the Warrens has always been the hay-maker card for Storm vs Delver.
If you can crack of an empty for 8-10 goblins within the first 2 turns, you're heavily favored.
Back when I was on DDFT and Grixis Delver [felt like it] was 90% of the meta, I was running 3-4 Empties in the 75.

The only card that they (sometimes) run that can punish us for that is Marsh Casualties. Otherwise Empty is basically a free-roll vs them.

[JosefK]

Yeah, i probably will have to stick to empty. I've been playing three lately but it has kind of underperformed. My opponents always seem to read my intentions and counter at the exact right time so I spend many resources doing nothing. Also there has been an uptick in stifles lately. I was hoping there was some secret tech :)

I've been playing a bit lately again, preparing for an offline tournament next week. I tried a league with 4x chalice in the sideboard. Unfortunately I did not get to test them that much as I only had two matchups where I boarded them in. I cast chalice twice, one resolved and my opponent scooped (vs snt). Then I had one game where I could cast t1 OTD off a petal vs a t1 delver but chose not to as i was afraid of daze and needed the petal. In hindsight i should have casted it as my opponent had like 2 spell pierce brainstorm ponder thoughtseize no daze/fow.
I think the rule when it comes to chalice is just jam it.
Will probably try it one more league. I really like how it stops a lot of annoying things, and the thought of being a storm combo deck with chalice is cool :)

[8bit9mm]

https://i.imgur.com/vDRVZF6.png

Might be too much of a stretch, but we could play it.

[Trigunner]

Finale of Promise

It looks like a Wish target, similar to Past in Flames or Mizzix Mastery, but I think it's not worth it. Then again I don't have that much experience with the deck, but here are some basic thoughts:
It let's you cast a maximum of two spells if you have an Instant and a Sorcery in your graveyard. Instants in Mono R are Mana Morphose, Seething Song and maybe Desperate Ritual. Maybe some Lightning Bolts or Commune with Lava too. In UR you can add Brainstorm to the list (Flusterstorm or other counterspells can be ignored, you don't want to cast those with Finale of Promise). So for most lists about 8-12 Instants. Just 8 Spells could be a bit low, 10+ sounds better to me. I guess that makes Finale at least playable?

If you have Bonus Round up this thing gets really good, but that's the case for most of our spells. It's more interesting to look at it if no Bonus Round was resolved before.
I think most of the time you want to get a card draw spell plus a ritual to cast further spells. To do that in Mono R you can cast Finale for 3RR to get Act on Impulse and Seething Song. Seething Song gives you back the 5 mana you have invested, so you just cast a free Act on Impulse and still have RRRRR floating, wich is not that bad.
Or for the same amount of mana you could cast Bonus Round and either Seething Song or Mana Morphose, wich gives an active Bonus Round with RRRRR floating or an active Bonus Round with 2 mana floating and a card drawn.

In UR you can cast Finale of Promise for as few as 1RR to get a Brainstorm and a Rite of Flame, wich isn't that amazing though. You have less mana than before (if you didn't have other RoF in your grave) and have cycled a card.

For both Mono R and UR there are other options of course, but those all sound even less interesting. I feel that it's only really worth it for X=3. If you keep in mind that you have wished for Finale in the first place then you can add another two mana to the cost, wich makes Finale pretty unappealing.

If you have 12+ mana to cast it with X=10 then Past in Flames or Mizzix Mastery are also good. Usually each of those spells could win the game at that point. But the other two are better if you have less than 12 mana imho.
With one or more resolved Bonus Rounds Finale of Promise can get pretty crazy. But at that point I would still prefer Mizzix Mastery, because it costs 1 less to cast and isn't restricted to Instant+Sorcery, so it's just a bit more flexible there. And without Bonus Round Mizzix Mastery seems better too.

Finale of Promise could be a flex slot card in the main of the Mono R version, but it doesn't appeal to me as a wishboard card.

[JosefK]

Trigunner, I agree completely. It's a 5 mana spell that is reliant on having good cards in your graveyard. But can't deny that x>10 is cool :)

[8bit9mm]

So, Niagara is almost upon us. I think I'm pretty locked in with my list (same as St. Louis):

MD:
4x Ancient Tomb
1x Arid Mesa
4x Bonus Round
4x Brainstorm
4x Burning Wish
4x Desperate Ritual
1x Island
4x Lotus Petal
4x Manamorphose
1x Mountain
2x Past in Flames
4x Ponder
4x Reforge the Soul
3x Rite of Flame
4x Ruby Medallion
4x Scalding Tarn
4x Seething Song
3x Volcanic Island
1x Wooded Foothills

SB:
1x Abrade
1x By Force
1x Empty the Warrens
2x Fiery Confluence
2x Flusterstorm
1x Grapeshot
1x Hazoret's Undying Fury
2x Hope of Ghirapur
1x Past in Flames
1x Rite of Flame
2x Surgical Extraction

The only change I've really been considering is maybe adding a Cratermaker or two to the SB (had a Prelate on 2 each my lunch the other day).
Craterboi does cost 1-more in total over Abrade, but it also doesn't get taxed by Thalia.

Edit: On a side note, the London mulligan on MTGO has felt pretty good for this deck, especially since we can have some pretty awkward openers with Ancient Tomb.
As a whole, though, I don't think the London mulligan should be implemented. I think it promotes unhealthy deck construction.

[mistercakes]

good luck!

[JosefK]

Good luck, make us proud!
I also have 2 offline tourneys this weekend. My current list is almost like yours in the main, only differences being 2 ssgs over the basics, -1 fetch + 1 volcanic island and also -1 pif for 1 intuition. I'm still debating those differences tho. Well i won't go below 4 volcanics, but the other ones :)

Sideboard differs a bit

2x Flusterstorm
2x Echoing truth
2x Fiery Confluence
1x Rite of flame
3x Empty The Warrens
2x Surgical Extraction
1x Grapeshot
1x Past in flames
1x Hazoret's undying fury


I love hope of ghirapur, but i feel that it's only good vs miracles, so i play 2x extra empty instead. I would love to have room for abrade and flusterstorm 3. Surgical #2 or empty #3 are the most cuttable cards currently.

[8bit9mm]

Good luck, make us proud!
I also have 2 offline tourneys this weekend. My current list is almost like yours in the main, only differences being 2 ssgs over the basics, -1 fetch + 1 volcanic island and also -1 pif for 1 intuition. I'm still debating those differences tho. Well i won't go below 4 volcanics, but the other ones :)

Sideboard differs a bit

2x Flusterstorm
2x Echoing truth
2x Fiery Confluence
1x Rite of flame
3x Empty The Warrens
2x Surgical Extraction
1x Grapeshot
1x Past in flames
1x Hazoret's undying fury


I love hope of ghirapur, but i feel that it's only good vs miracles, so i play 2x extra empty instead. I would love to have room for abrade and flusterstorm 3. Surgical #2 or empty #3 are the most cuttable cards currently.

I wouldn't mind a 2nd Empty in my board.
I've felt that Hope has overperformed for me. I expect to see a decent amount of Miracles, Blade, and UW Delver and Hope is great against all the Tundra decks. It's also pretty good against Shadow, which I've been having trouble with lately.

Surgical is probably the least boarded in card for me, but I am afraid to cut it. I really do want to find room for Cratermaker, though. I've been really impressed by it in other decks.

I haven't found that I need a bounce spell. The only thing that Abrade/Cratermaker/By Force doesn't answer that we commonly see are Leyline of Sanctity (don't care, Confluence says "each opponent"), Leyline of the Void (inconvenient, but also mostly don't care) and Marit Lage (scary, but I think we're fast enough to largely ignore it).

I will say that if I played a bounce spell, I would probably pick Hurkyl's (because of the uptick in Red Prison lately) or Consign//Oblivion since we can wish for Oblivion and don't have to worry about the combined CMC if we board it in since we don't play Ad Nauseam.

[JosefK]

True about hope being good vs stoneblade as well. The problem vs delver is mostly that they can just leave one delver home to negate it. Vs UR delver I wouldn't even board it in when they have pteramander, delver and bolts. I might want to add one just for miracles and stoneblade and maybe show and tell.

My reasoning for running echoing truth is that it is multipurpose, can bounce Thalia, trinisphere, canonist and all cards that abrade could kill. But also marit lage, iona/Chancellor, pyrostatic pillar.

[8bit9mm]

True about hope being good vs stoneblade as well. The problem vs delver is mostly that they can just leave one delver home to negate it. Vs UR delver I wouldn't even board it in when they have pteramander, delver and bolts. I might want to add one just for miracles and stoneblade and maybe show and tell.

My reasoning for running echoing truth is that it is multipurpose, can bounce Thalia, trinisphere, canonist and all cards that abrade could kill. But also marit lage, iona/Chancellor, pyrostatic pillar.

I forgot about Iona and Pillar. I'm not discounting E-Truth, that's for sure. I've played that card in the SB of more decks than I can count.

I also can't seem to find any Darksteel JPN ones...
It's in my list of cards to pick up, along with Perilous Voyage, Consign//Oblivion, another Fluster, more Empties, a Pulverize, and a couple of other small things.

[mistercakes]

after seeing the set spoiled in full, i'm not really on board with any of the new cards. here's the current mono red list that i'll run:

// 60 Maindeck
// 12 Artifact
4 Lotus Petal
4 Ruby Medallion
4 Lion's Eye Diamond

// 2 Creature
2 Simian Spirit Guide

// 12 Instant
4 Manamorphose
4 Seething Song
4 Desperate Ritual

// 13 Land
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Sandstone Needle
5 Mountain

// 21 Sorcery
3 Rite of Flame
4 Burning Wish
2 Past in Flames
4 Bonus Round
3 Act on Impulse
2 Light Up the Stage
3 Hazoret's Undying Fury


// 15 Sideboard
// 4 Creature
SB: 2 Hope of Ghirapur
SB: 2 Guttersnipe

// 11 Sorcery
SB: 1 Tendrils of Agony
SB: 1 Grapeshot
SB: 3 Empty the Warrens
SB: 1 Past in Flames
SB: 1 Fiery Confluence
SB: 1 Hazoret's Undying Fury
SB: 1 Mizzix's Mastery
SB: 1 Rite of Flame
SB: 1 Act on Impulse

sb isn't 100% confirmed (at least the 2 hope, 2 guttersnipe, 2 of the 3 empty.) 6 cards are pretty flexible, not sure what i would do in an unknown meta, but for a known meta just choose accordingly. with 2 spirit guide, the scab-clan berserker is good too.

[JosefK]

I played some paper this weekend, I played my challenge list but with 2 pif no intuition, 2 basics no ssg(fun fact, I have fbb duals and beta power but no ssgs) and some tweaks to the sideboard.
Quick recap. I actually don't remember that much so I will probably be off somewhat.
Round 1 vs UB reanimator.
I go first but he reanimated a turn 1 ashen rider to exile my land. He has no follow-up so I win on my t3. Game 2 he gets a quick reanimate on grieselbrand, but fails to draw a fow as a response to my seething song so wish for grapeshot kills him.

Round 2, probably uw stoneblade
I lost game 1, made goblins game 2, and got through thanks to pif game 3.

Round 3, esper delverblade
Lots could be said about this game, but I will keep it short.
Game 1 took lots of time, I needed to find a burning wish and had 16 ponders to find it, it took 12 of them. My opp would not scoop. I nearly got game 2, but didn't. Before game 3 my opponent called on the judge to watch our game because he thought my deck was to slow, not that I played slowly. The judge watched us and my opponent immediately forgot to draw for his turn and got a warning. I lost focus and did not fluster a t1 e.tutor for canonist and lost quickly. My opponent and the judge had an argument about his judge call, and suddenly I was accused of playing to fast. Strange times, but it ebbed out.

Round 4, something with delver and stoneforge
I won game 1 through pif, lost a tight game 2. Game 3 went back and forth. I made a small play error and my opponent played well, but he was almost hellbent when I could make 4 goblins and he drew only counters for 4 turns.

Round 5, miracles at the feature table
Link to stream (https://youtu.be/RQFRO1_vkoU?t=11990)
Commentary is in swedish (and no sound at all for game 1 it seems)
At the end of game 2 i might have made a mistake in going for reforge the soul. Thing is i'm like 95% sure to win the game on the spot if i reforge with that much mana. What i should have done if i just thought a bit more about it is to realize that if he left a land on top after brainstorming, it probably tells me that he has only lands in hand and top 2 cards being lands as well. His only out to my goblins then become that he fetch and draw into terminus and brainstorm or verdict with his jace. At the exact moment i cast reforge i think it was correct, but i probably should have kept my lotus petals and not overcasted rituals from the grave to make enough goblins and then passed.
I did some misplays this game, one of them were that i put back cards in the wrong order of a ponder, you can see my puzzled reaction when i draw a brainstorm of my manamorphose at one time. Also my opponent did some mindgames, game 1 he faked daze as a response to my brainstorm (you see him touch his land, but he also said "probably not worth dazing that"). Game two when i went off and he had declined to use counterbalance when i cast a 1, a 3 and a 4 he said "lets see if you can win through a counterbalance at two". Fun games overall

Round 6, ID

Quarterfinals vs .... stoneblade
G1 I won easily, G2 lost a close game. G3 I mulligan to 6, my opponent mulls to 5. I decide to test it with petal tomb desperate empty for 6 goblins. My opponent draws for his turn and scoops. He had held a hand with cantrips flusterstorms and spell pierce but no land.

Top4 splits.

Good things

I played really well, and fast. 3 coloured spindowns make things easy and I really had a good flow.
Setting up reforge for eot manamorphose is great fun.
3 empty in the sideboard



Bad things

Few people. There used to be like 100 people at this event, this year I think we were around 50.
After our game in round five my opponent asked me if I played cliffys list and I'm annoyed by my reaction to this. Just silly.
I missed vintage nationals as round 1 started at the same time as the quarterfinals.
The basic lands, i always get better results with them, but they never feel good. I don't understand why they give better results.

[8bit9mm]

Congrats on the strong finish @JosefK!

It's good to see the deck in much more competent hands than my own :tongue:

I'm still watching through your feature match (bits and pieces while at work), but it made me cringe when you opponent faked having a Daze. That's just obnoxious and unnecessary, in my opinion.

I spent the weekend at GP Niagara (I refuse to call it a Magic Fest) and had a very mediocre record of 4-4.
I also did not keep very good notes (sorry guys).

Losses:
D&T (had a bad wheel g3 that gave my opponent a Canonist in hand)
RB Reanimator (didn't register Echoing Truth and got Iona'd)
Miracles (opponent had CB every game and was a master of the blind flip)
Eldrazi (this one was actually interesting, because after killing him g1, he boarded out all his Chalices and brought in 4 Leyline and 4 Thorn, which actually worked)

Wins:
RUg Phoenix w/ Land Grant (Surgical pulled its weight)
ANT (2-0, turn 2'd my opponent both games. This opponent was really fun and loved watching the deck do its thing)
4c Control w/ P-Fire (T1 16 goblins g1, T2 wheel into goblins g2)
Lands (got 20/20'd t3 g1, opp didn't know what I was on, so he boarded out Tabernacle and Glacial Chasm g2 and t1 goblins get there, g3 I go off right through my opp's sphere of resistance. While going off I found the abrade, but elected to keep the sphere in place to lock my opp out of Crop Rotation. I cast PiF twice from hand and flashed it back once on my combo turn g3. Brainstorm + 7 Bonus Round triggers eventually find me the Burning Wish to win)

The deck felt fine, but I had some really awkward openers and mulligans all day.
Basics felt fine :wink:
4th wheel felt wrong. I wanted it in the SB multiple times over Hazoret's. Maybe it's just me, but I like my odds off of wheeling much more than off Hazoret's. Wheeling also feels much better when you're playing Hope.

Going forward, I plan to test:
Main: +1 Intuition, -1 Reforge the Soul
Side: +1 Reforge the Soul, -1 Hazoret's Undying Fury

Once again, congratulations on the strong finish JosefK :)
We all know you aren't playing Ciffy's list haha

[mistercakes]

still tinkering around on this. good news is am putting back my PC and just need to find time to play, assuming that my wifi is good enough to support playing modo.

here's the next list i will test.

// 60 Maindeck
// 12 Artifact
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Lotus Petal
4 Ruby Medallion

// 3 Creature
3 Simian Spirit Guide

// 10 Instant
4 Manamorphose
4 Seething Song
2 Lightning Bolt

// 13 Land
4 Ancient Tomb
5 Mountain
4 Sandstone Needle

// 22 Sorcery
3 Act on Impulse
4 Burning Wish
2 Hazoret's Undying Fury
1 Reforge the Soul
3 Light Up the Stage
2 Past in Flames
3 Rite of Flame
4 Bonus Round


// 10 Sideboard
// 10 Sorcery
SB: 1 Rite of Flame
SB: 1 Act on Impulse
SB: 1 Hazoret's Undying Fury
SB: 1 Reforge the Soul
SB: 1 Empty the Warrens
SB: 1 Mizzix's Mastery
SB: 1 Past in Flames
SB: 1 Grapeshot
SB: 1 Fiery Confluence
SB: 1 Tendrils of Agony


(still needs 5 cards, pretty open, but i like the 10 as wish targets, for modo it will probably have some anti-combo cards, and maybe 1 or 2 anti control cards.)

[Rationalist]

I'm curious, @mistercakes:

I have no experience with this deck but I've kept my eye on it ever since Bonus Round. What is the incentive to run Mono-R in the first place currently? Sandstone Needle?

[mistercakes]

I'm curious, @mistercakes:

I have no experience with this deck but I've kept my eye on it ever since Bonus Round. What is the incentive to run Mono-R in the first place currently? Sandstone Needle?

it's a good question. i'm not sure if it's better to run it over the UR. i haven't really gotten enough time to play modo with mono red.

however, UR isn't a tier 1 deck by any means. i don't think there needs to be a huge debate between UR and mono red. they each have their own flavors, and i still don't know if i have the list optimized, even after about 2 years. (it helps that we keep getting new toys)

Mono red pros:

sandstone needle, act on impulse, LED.

in a vacuum, LED is significantly better than desperate ritual. the way it combos with burning wish, act on impulse, light up the stage, and past in flames is really something special. LED also enables better hands for empty the warrens as the wish target.

sandstone needle provides an easier way to get turn 2 kills. something like turn 1 needle, turn 2 tomb + petal/ssg + bonus round can give some quick steals.

act on impulse. while by itself isn't nearly as good as brainstorm or ponder, with ruby medallion i'd put them about equal. with bonus round both of them are actually pretty close, but act on impulse doesn't require an off color starting point.

something like turn 1 tomb ruby, turn 2 mountain seething song, bonus round, act on impulse -> flip 6 cards and still have 1R remaining. this is almost always game over. if we compare with something like

turn 1 ruby, turn 2 seething song, bonus round, cantrip (you still need a petal here, or manamorphose.)

turn 1 with LED you can do things like: petal/ssg + tomb -> seething song -> bonus round -> led -> bw -> crack for RRR -> RoF + hazoret's.

i'm still not sure if i should have 3 maindeck 1 AoI or 4 AoI. i find myself tutoring for it less often mid combo. it's possible it should be the light up the stage in the sb, as it's less needed. hard to say.

you are also less vulnerable to chalice. the UR version can get around it if it resolves a bonus round first, but otherwise chalice can slow down the deck considerably. it's usually not an issue unless if they follow it up with a threat.

i think that josef can speak to the weaknesses of the UR version, and maybe the red version has some more game in that department. it's also entirely possible it doesn't!

lastly, assuming you have LED's (maybe you're a dredge or belcher player), this is a much easier migration into a combo deck that isn't dredge or a glass cannon. the deck can reliably fight through multiple counters/discard.

the main appeal of the UR version is the ability to manipulate the deck for reforge the soul. if that's something you're into you should check out the UR version.

[FTW]

Is Finale of Promise any good here?

At X=3 it copies Seething Song/Manamorphose/Ritual and Bonus Round/Act on Impulse. It's a dud off Hazoret though.

[JosefK]

@rationalist and mistercakes

It's an interesting question!

I think that the only weaknesses that is specific to the UR version is probably
1) Non basic land hate.
2) Draw-hate, like leovold, narset(?) spirit of the lab
3) Chalice for 1

1 Does not really come up much. And i think except for choke that mono R suffers about the same with its 8 nonbasics.
2 It becomes really hard to win with those on the table. UR has 16 cards that draws cards. I guess the flip cards help mono R some. Will see if the new narset becomes popular then this might be an argument for staying monoR.
3 is almost never any problem. I had to check my numbers, but it seems that there actually is a correlation between me winning and my opponent casting chalice. Chalice for 2 is a lot worse than 1.

The main weaknesses of the deck in general i think is shared by both UR and monoR (and probably worse for monoR).

1) You play a deck that's ~60% mana. Some times you just flood out.
2) No protection. I think this sometimes is misinterpreted as the deck is a glass cannon or "dies to fow". It's not. The data is kind of hard to evaluate, but i win 48% of the matches where a FoW is cast (i win 53% if it is miracles that casts it). The real problem is that the way to beat fow/blue permission is the complete opposite of how you beat ANT, lands and reanimator. To beat blue, you make land drops, maybe force them to counter something, but in the end you overload them with like an EOT reforge which they stop, then you go pif, flashback pif in the same turn. To beat ANT/lands/reanimator you just win t2. This makes it hard to balance the deck.

I think the problem in 2 is also the explanation why the matchups vs DnT/Moon stompy etc are so good. Both plans work, they can be beaten by winning T2 or by making landdrops and hording rituals/bonus rounds.

[mistercakes]

current list to help inherit mana issues with the deck. i really don't like faithless looting, but i think it might be a necessary evil for consistency. at least it's pretty good with bonus round, and it does help with fizzling.


// 60 Maindeck
// 12 Artifact
4 Lotus Petal
4 Ruby Medallion
4 Lion's Eye Diamond

// 8 Instant
4 Manamorphose
4 Seething Song

// 15 Land
4 Ancient Tomb
9 Mountain
2 Sandstone Needle

// 25 Sorcery
4 Act on Impulse
4 Burning Wish
4 Light Up the Stage
2 Past in Flames
3 Rite of Flame
3 Bonus Round
3 Faithless Looting
2 Empty the Warrens


// 15 Sideboard
// 3 Creature
SB: 3 Hope of Ghirapur

// 2 Instant
SB: 2 Abrade

// 10 Sorcery
SB: 1 Hazoret's Undying Fury
SB: 1 Reforge the Soul
SB: 1 Empty the Warrens
SB: 1 Past in Flames
SB: 1 Grapeshot
SB: 1 Fiery Confluence
SB: 1 Tendrils of Agony
SB: 1 Faithless Looting
SB: 1 Pulverize
SB: 1 Rite of Flame

[mistercakes]

the new horizon canopy lands seem great for this deck, especially for the UR version which can enable EOT reforge the soul miracle. (still requires pseudo 4 mana).

[8bit9mm]

the new horizon canopy lands seem great for this deck, especially for the UR version which can enable EOT reforge the soul miracle. (still requires pseudo 4 mana).

It's a possibility to replace the 2 basics I was playing with them, but that does make the manabase quite painful.
Someone smarter than I will have to come up with a UR manabase using them :tongue:

[JosefK]

My instinct is to be negative about new cards :)

The good parts
Flood protection
Miracle interaction

The bad parts
Damage
Can't be fetched

I don't think the damage part is that bad, but i do think the fact that they can't be fetched for make it hard to find room for them. Currently playing 6 fetches and 5 fetchable lands and i still occasionally get to the situation where i have no fetchable lands in the deck (especially when you reforge away a couple of lands early).

I don't think the miracle interaction is that great actually, it's a big up front cost and you have to sacrifice a land, so it only "nets" you 1 mana that way (compared to regular drawstep miracle) and with a ruby out its no difference. The flood protection seems great, and possibly it would be a good idea to go up to 16 or even 17 land and maybe cut a fetch.

I have never played with Horizon Canopy, so it might be that i underestimate the effect.

[mistercakes]

New card

2R
Enchantment
When it enters the battlefield, each opponent gains 10 life.

Whenever you cast an instant or sorcery spell, put a verse counter on it, then it deals damage equal to the number of verse counters on it to target player or planeswalker.

So it fits the guttersnipe slot, you need to cast 8 instant/sorc to deal the 30 damage, which is still faster than snipe. Counters stay on the card so you don't have to do it all in one go.

It's an interesting effect, and I think it's very strong against the control decks. Maybe sb material, but hard to tell for sure. Guttersnipe has always played out very well for me vs miracles and other control decks. (it also gets under teeg), killing planeswalkers is a bonus. I think I'll try 1 or 2 sb to start.

The 2ur card is interesting as well. As expected, this deck gets some new toys for testing, time will tell if they are decent.

[JosefK]

New card
2R
Enchantment
When it enters the battlefield, each opponent gains 10 life.

Whenever you cast an instant or sorcery spell, put a verse counter on it, then it deals damage equal to the number of verse counters on it to target player or planeswalker.


Now this is interesting! Very often 7 cards after this will be lethal (28 damage if i calculate correctly).
The fact that it's an enchanment is both a blessing and a curse. Preboard few decks can interact with it. Postboard i found that many board in disenchant effects already.

I dislike the 2R casting cost, i honestly would have liked it more if it gave 20 life and costed 1R.

I don't know what i would cut, probably nothing :) But there might exist a shell for this.
Nice side effect of killing deaths shadow :)

[JosefK]

I was going to play a paper tournament last Sunday, but then all my friends decided to skip it so i stayed at home as well. I decided to try another challenge as i already cleared the time :)

Round 1 vs Stoneblade(or miracles?), Lost the die
G1 Mull to 5. Keep a hand with 1 land 2 brainstorms and something else. Opp flusterstorms my t1 brainstorm. Then his next play is a t4 jace, i see it as my chance and i go off and grapeshot him to death. No bonus round, no reforge the soul.
G2 Mull to 6, mana heavy hand, my plan is to bonus round a brainstorm to get there, but he fows my bonus round. I cast brainstorm any way and see three more mana cards. Opp lands narset and impulses up a flusterstorm and then a fow, i scoop.
G3 Keep 7, a strong hand but with only a petal for fast mana. I t1 brainstorm to see a tomb and a seething song. Win t2 with a flusterstorm targeting his spell pierce on my seething song. (SS -> BR -> MM -> BS)

Round 2 vs RUG Won the die
This was the strangest match in a long time for me.
G1 I keep a good seven but with only a petal for colored mana. I cast t1 ponder, finding land. Opp pondershuffles. I cast a ruby of a tomb and ponder again. Opp misses his land drop and cast a delver. I go for it t2, but have no draw spells. I decide between Hazorets or empty, but decide that empty for 14 goblins g1 vs delver is good enough and i dont want to be blown out by fow if my opponent saved it. I save a RoF in hand just in case anything happens. Pass the turn, my opponent plays land and... main deck echoing truth!?!? My turn i draw the intuition i kept on top from earlier, and intuition for 2 MM and pif for the win.
G2 I should not have won this... Opp lands a t1 delver and a t2 delver and then then a t3 cindervines. I can go off, but i'm at eleven and no way to remove cindervines, and no bonus round in hand. I get a ruby medallion and cast some manamorphoses and cantrips. I start to realize i can't win this but i play on, i might have forgotten something. I cast a seething song, he fows, i fluster his fow, then i cast another seething song, and in response to that he.... blows up .... cindervines ... to destroy my ruby.... with me at 3.... i wish for PiF and win.

Round 3 vs Stoneblade Won the die
G1 T1 ruby, t2 brainstorm into petal rite wish (going for goblins) he fows wish. I've setup a reforge for next turn and win from there.
G2 Opp mulls to five, i'm stuck on 1 land the entire game and my opponent counters everything i do for a couple of turns. Then i land a ruby off a petal and manage to manamorphose twice and then cast seething song. He fows, i fluster and win from there (bonus round -> wish).

Round 4 vs Stoneblade Lost the die
G1 i win quickly
G2 i messed up big time twice and my opponent played well. The first misplay was not jamming empty for 12 when i had 3 red mana, i instead cast a seething song that got fowed. My next misplay was even worse. It was a couple of turns later and my opponent had batterskull and stoneforge mystic in play almost hellbent. I cast a brainstorm and see exactly what i need to get to 6 mana fiery confluence to kill the batterskull and stoneforge and then empty for 14. I put back cards and go for it. The only problem was that i forgot that i only had one draw effect, somehow i thought i could use all cards i saw. So i played my rituals to 6 mana, cast fiery confluence, and realized that i did not have empty in hand... What i should have done was empty this turn and confluence kill the batterskull next turn.
G3, i mulligan, get 8 goblins, he gets stoneforge, i try to reforge away batterskull but he has the fow. Then i misplay again, i become obsessed with the idea that i should seething song -> bonus round -> echoing truth his germ and stoneforge and kill him. Everything resolved, but i miscalculated. I lost the game with him at 1 life. I had the opportunity to instead go for a bonus rounded ponder with 2 red floating and a ruby in play.

Round 5 vs Painter Lost the die
G1 I win quickly.
G2 he lands t1 grindstone, t2 trini, i wish for fiery confluence and the turn after that i kill trini and grindstone. I could go for a reforge or haz that turn without any mana floating, or wait until next turn to do it with tons of mana floating. With him only on traitors and mountain with 5 cards in hand i decide to pass.
He untaps. Play painter, grindstone, land SSG SSG kill me.
G3 turn 2 win through bonus round hazoret.

Round 6 vs Karn/eldrazi something. Lost the die
I recognize the name and guess he is on blue.
G1 I keep a 4 land 3 cantrip hand. He goes t1 chalice for 1, i draw for the turn.... ponder. He follows up with thought not and i never resolve anything.
G2 i keep a solid hand with ruby medallion and manamorphoses. He starts with chalice on 1 and i don't care, i play ruby. He follows up with chalice on 2, for the rest of the game i draw ruby medallions manamorphoses and burning wishes.


Round 7 vs DnT lost the die
Im 31-4 vs DnT this year, so when i realized he was on DnT it felt really good.
G1 I resolve t1 ruby medallion and win through thalia after a reforge
G2 He plays mother of runes -> thalia i play cantrips and make landdrops until i find a ruby medallion and win.

Another 5-2, ending up 18th this time. Highest placing stormplayer!

Decklist can be found at https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/mtgo-standings/legacy-challenge-2019-05-22. I had a spicy WAR card in my list as you can see, unfortunately i never cast it. But it's a cool interaction with reforge.

[ronco]

Nice job, JosefK!

I'll be jamming a mono-red, bonus round heavy list at Magic Fest KC next week. Looking forward to reporting back! The list is a little bit dated but its one I feel pretty comfortable playing and have a good grip on the lines... I think. Will be my first event with it.

[8bit9mm]

https://i.redd.it/50mwxgo7e6131.png

Did somebody say UR Ruby Storm with quad-LEDs?

[mistercakes]

now i get to sleeve up my gamble's again, and possibly my intuitions as well.

// 60 Maindeck
// 12 Artifact
4 Lotus Petal
4 Ruby Medallion
4 Lion's Eye Diamond

// 1 Creature
1 Simian Spirit Guide

// 12 Instant
4 Manamorphose
4 Seething Song
4 Brainstorm

// 13 Land
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Volcanic Island
4 Scalding Tarn
1 Mountain

// 22 Sorcery
3 Rite of Flame
4 Burning Wish
2 Past in Flames
3 Bonus Round
4 Ponder
3 Timetwister
3 Gamble


// 15 Sideboard
// 6 Instant
SB: 3 Flusterstorm
SB: 2 Echoing Truth
SB: 1 Abrade

// 9 Sorcery
SB: 1 Tendrils of Agony
SB: 1 Grapeshot
SB: 1 Past in Flames
SB: 1 Fiery Confluence
SB: 1 Hazoret's Undying Fury
SB: 1 Mizzix's Mastery
SB: 1 Rite of Flame
SB: 1 Empty the Warrens
SB: 1 Timetwister


i'll do more goldfishing without intuition for the time being. it might want more simian spirit guides too, not sure yet.

maybe something like this:

// 60 Maindeck
// 11 Artifact
4 Lotus Petal
3 Ruby Medallion
4 Lion's Eye Diamond

// 3 Creature
3 Simian Spirit Guide

// 12 Instant
4 Manamorphose
4 Seething Song
4 Brainstorm

// 13 Land
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Volcanic Island
4 Scalding Tarn
1 Mountain

// 21 Sorcery
3 Rite of Flame
4 Burning Wish
2 Past in Flames
2 Bonus Round
4 Ponder
3 Timetwister
3 Gamble


// 15 Sideboard
// 6 Instant
SB: 3 Flusterstorm
SB: 2 Echoing Truth
SB: 1 Abrade

// 9 Sorcery
SB: 1 Tendrils of Agony
SB: 1 Grapeshot
SB: 1 Past in Flames
SB: 1 Fiery Confluence
SB: 1 Rite of Flame
SB: 1 Empty the Warrens
SB: 1 Timetwister

+2 SB slots

[Glass House]

http://mythicspoiler.com/mh1/cards/throesofchaos.jpg

Surprised that no one commented on Throes of Chaos here yet. It looks like a potential substitute for the main deck HUF's in the mono red lists. Hits everything except PIF, has built-in recursion, and has a low cost.

[mistercakes]

http://mythicspoiler.com/mh1/cards/throesofchaos.jpg

Surprised that no one commented on Throes of Chaos here yet. It looks like a potential substitute for the main deck HUF's in the mono red lists. Hits everything except PIF, has built-in recursion, and has a low cost.

i think this card can really help the grindy matchups, but it doesn't speed it up. it also is quite poor vs thalia and taxing effects. would need to be tested, but the main value here is when you have a lot of mana. it's hard to say. keep in mind that if you have bonus round in effect, you don't get the cascade trigger twice.

[Glass House]

keep in mind that if you have bonus round in effect, you don't get the cascade trigger twice.

Missed that. Makes me less excited about the card now :frown:.

[mistercakes]

dunno if anyone is still interested in mono red build, but i think i would try this first:


// 60 Maindeck
// 12 Artifact
4 Lotus Petal
4 Ruby Medallion
4 Lion's Eye Diamond

// 4 Creature
4 Simian Spirit Guide

// 8 Instant
4 Seething Song
4 Manamorphose

// 13 Land
4 Ancient Tomb
9 Mountain

// 23 Sorcery
4 Burning Wish
3 Rite of Flame
2 Past in Flames
3 Bonus Round
3 Timetwister
3 Gamble
3 Reforge the Soul
2 Act on Impulse


// 14 Sideboard
// 4 Artifact
SB: 4 Defense Grid

// 10 Sorcery
SB: 1 Rite of Flame
SB: 1 Grapeshot
SB: 1 Tendrils of Agony
SB: 1 Hazoret's Undying Fury
SB: 1 Past in Flames
SB: 1 Fiery Confluence
SB: 1 Empty the Warrens
SB: 1 Shattering Spree
SB: 1 Timetwister
SB: 1 Reforge the Soul


what's cool here is reforge the soul can put echos in the graveyard as well and help find LED's. you're still playing the game of i'm going to cast as many spells as possible that are must counters. the added value here is that you reset your hand a few more times.

there are still other variants i'm sure for mono red that are a bit more dependent on goblins, but i never really get into that too much. there's also a chance you would want to run an intuition or two instead of some of the maindeck reforges as they can get guarantee wins after seething song -> bonus round -> manamorphose -> intuition.

intuition build would like this:


// 60 Maindeck
// 12 Artifact
4 Lotus Petal
4 Ruby Medallion
4 Lion's Eye Diamond

// 4 Creature
4 Simian Spirit Guide

// 10 Instant
4 Seething Song
4 Manamorphose
2 Intuition

// 13 Land
4 Ancient Tomb
2 Mountain
3 Scalding Tarn
2 Arid Mesa
2 Volcanic Island

// 21 Sorcery
4 Burning Wish
3 Rite of Flame
2 Past in Flames
4 Bonus Round
3 Timetwister
3 Gamble
2 Reforge the Soul


// 15 Sideboard
// 4 Artifact
SB: 4 Defense Grid

// 11 Sorcery
SB: 1 Rite of Flame
SB: 1 Grapeshot
SB: 1 Tendrils of Agony
SB: 1 Hazoret's Undying Fury
SB: 1 Past in Flames
SB: 1 Fiery Confluence
SB: 2 Empty the Warrens
SB: 1 Shattering Spree
SB: 1 Timetwister
SB: 1 Reforge the Soul

[JosefK]

I've been brewing a bit with the new timetwister as well, but actually not tested it that much in ruby but instead in a mono u(or well, splash for 4 gamble and a burning wish) shell with riddlesmith and helm of awakening + all fast artifact mana. It's really cool, but the main bottleneck is mana and i don't think that can be solved in legacy (for that build), if top still were legal i think that deck would be insane tho.

I've tested it a small bit in ruby. In some ways i think it's actually better in a mono red build with gambles, mainly because gamble is so strong and faithless looting have some nice synergy. I do think someone will come up with a build that will get it banned in the end, but it's probably not in ruby, but might be :)

Another thing, last week i missed tendrils for the first time. I've played over 1000 games with UR, and for the first time ever i got crop rotation > glacial chasm owned last week. The strange thing is that since then it happened two times more (and i've only played like 8 games). The second time i managed to draw the game due to 6x reforge when my opponent were at 41 cards and i was at 35 :) And just now i won by casting bonus round, reforge, into 2 more bonus rounds and a surgical and surgicalled x8 and then finishing with more reforge action. Even tho it's winnable i might add tendrils back, for a while :)

[ahg113]

I'm still rocking mono-red.

I really do like the Timetwister varient, but am unsure about the double blue casting cost. Sure petals and manamorphose, but It seems that's going to be sitting in hand for a long time without being cast as a dead card.

I'm a much bigger fan of leaning heavily into the exile-can-be-cast cards. Commune with Lava, AoI, LutS, have been very very good to me, the synergy with LED is nigh perfection. If there were a reasonable way sans Timetwister to recycle LEDs, I'm very interested.

Also, surprised the mono-red deck is sans sandstone needle. After being suspicious at first of a counter depletion land, I've come to like them. Haven't experienced enough negative game interactions to warrant dropping them at the moment. What was your reasoning/cause to?

The cascade rebound card looks like filler. If we were still on probe and wanted an extra card just to be extra, that's what I'd play. It does nothing except blind flip the next spell, however, it does cycle lands to bottom of the deck, ditch to yard. But that's not a must fix instance in my experience.

[ahg113]

I've been brewing a bit with the new timetwister as well, but actually not tested it that much in ruby but instead in a mono u(or well, splash for 4 gamble and a burning wish) shell with riddlesmith and helm of awakening + all fast artifact mana. It's really cool, but the main bottleneck is mana and i don't think that can be solved in legacy (for that build), if top still were legal i think that deck would be insane tho.

I've tested it a small bit in ruby. In some ways i think it's actually better in a mono red build with gambles, mainly because gamble is so strong and faithless looting have some nice synergy. I do think someone will come up with a build that will get it banned in the end, but it's probably not in ruby, but might be :)

Another thing, last week i missed tendrils for the first time. I've played over 1000 games with UR, and for the first time ever i got crop rotation > glacial chasm owned last week. The strange thing is that since then it happened two times more (and i've only played like 8 games). The second time i managed to draw the game due to 6x reforge when my opponent were at 41 cards and i was at 35 :) And just now i won by casting bonus round, reforge, into 2 more bonus rounds and a surgical and surgicalled x8 and then finishing with more reforge action. Even tho it's winnable i might add tendrils back, for a while :)

I like being able to win from multiple vantage points, damage (spells v. creatures), loss of life, milling deck (nice one, haven't done this one yet, how did you stop from milling yourself?). The more options you have, the better. And with BW, the SB really is part of the deck to take advantage of a miser's copy as required.

[mistercakes]

yea i'm still testing the twister a bit more, i'm still on the fence about it. it might end up as a singleton in a build with more gambles, as i do like bonus round + gamble. sandstone is great, sometimes it can be rough. it's usually best against a deck like miracles or grixis control. last time i played vs miracles i got back2basics a bunch of times and it didn't feel so great!

given that the deck will always be a bit less consistent than the blue variant, you're probably better off running the needles. (if you are lucky that day, which the deck needs a little bit of luck in general then it will be great.)

with only 1 twister in the maindeck i don't feel as guilty running act on impulse. this way if you hit a gamble off of act on impulse, it's actually relevant. i'll need to do some more testing, but in all the testing i've done so far it really seems like belcher is the only real clear winner from this card (asides from the wishboard improving a bit.)

-rob

this would be my safe list

// 60 Maindeck
// 12 Artifact
4 Lotus Petal
4 Ruby Medallion
4 Lion's Eye Diamond

// 10 Instant
4 Manamorphose
4 Seething Song
2 Desperate Ritual

// 15 Land
4 Ancient Tomb
9 Mountain
2 Sandstone Needle

// 23 Sorcery
4 Act on Impulse
4 Burning Wish
3 Light Up the Stage
2 Past in Flames
3 Rite of Flame
4 Bonus Round
2 Faithless Looting
1 Empty the Warrens


// 15 Sideboard
// 4 Instant
SB: 1 Abrade
SB: 2 Kozilek's Return
SB: 1 Pyroblast

// 11 Sorcery
SB: 1 Hazoret's Undying Fury
SB: 1 Reforge the Soul
SB: 1 Empty the Warrens
SB: 1 Past in Flames
SB: 1 Grapeshot
SB: 1 Fiery Confluence
SB: 1 Tendrils of Agony
SB: 1 Pulverize
SB: 1 Rite of Flame
SB: 1 Exquisite Firecraft
SB: 1 Echo of Eons


(firecraft is a bit of a flex spot here)

[ronco]

Cliff notes version from yesterday, will post list and details later from magic fest kc.
R1 vs auriok salvager/led/ballista/monastery mentor deck. This might have an official name but I don’t know it.
L 1-2

R2 vs 4c loam
W 2-0.

R3 vs burn
L 0-2.

First time playing this deck vs real opponents. Made some bad misplays (R1) and don’t have an optimized version that was apparent vs burn R3. Played pox the rest of the day, but not because I was upset with the deck.


Updates:
Decklist at the bottom
R1G1 - Adam from STL on Monastery Mentor/Auriok Salvager. I am on the draw. I mull to 6. II don't remember the detail but I think I only had 1 mountain and was afraid to go to 5 on this deck. I do have notes that I got a t 1 ruby off AOI. His first 2 turns are sol lands and he lands a T2 Dominaria Karn. T3 he gets mentor out and drops some eggs to get tokens. I don't get my second red mana source until T4 which I think I needed for wheels if memory serves as I couldn't find gas. Next turn he gets his LED and Auriok and gets infinite tokens with prowress and runs me over.

R1G2 - on the play - I tomb and pass. He sol lands out a chalice on 1. T2 I mountain and pass, he mentors and pass. T3 I wish for by force to deal with the chalice. I don't recall what his T3 was but it wasn't major. T4 I hazoret into manamorphose, bonus round, Past in flames. Then I win from there.

R1G3 - on the draw - He t1 sol land ballista on 1. T2 he gets his salvager/LED combo and I'm dead. Nothing I could do to stop that one.
0-1 match, 1-2 games.
-----
R2G1 vs Richard from KC area on 4C Loam. I am on the draw (This was a pattern all day) - We both drop lands T1 and he puts chalice on 1 on turn 2. Unlike the first game I have a bonus round on the ready so this chalice doesn't mean much. He dropped a Scooze but only had one mana up. Next turn I bonus rounded, did some things and grape shot him for 9 (wasn't sure if he was holding surgicals or anything - he wasn't) then hazoret into 2x AOI and a burning wish for tendrils which was game.

R2G2 - on the draw - T0 a leyline of the void. I t1 hazoret and whiffed on it. T2 i just played a mountain and passed. T3 i got 2 medallions up, one gets Ass Trophied but it gets me another land which helped me so that was fine. T4 I get another reducer back out, bonus round out, get 36 goblins, and he scoops after looking at his next card.
1-1 Matches, 3-2 games.
----
R3G1 - Harrison on Burn from KC area. I'm on the draw - He T1 gobling guide which gets me a mountain that I need (had 1 in hand). I don't do much first couple turns but he plays the 4 damage to all players burn spell to get himself to 16. I'm down to 10 or so I think but he still had plenty of cards in hadn. I get myself to 18 goblins off an EtW. He swings in with the guide and i chump block 2 to kill it (he already played a Light up the stage, so I didn't want him to get spectacle, not thinking he could just burn me for it, possible BIG misplay here). Next turn I go to crack back with 16 goblins and he uses his last mana to burn one of my tokens. I get him down to 3 (holding back 2 for I don't know what) but he has enough gas to finish me off before I get to my next turn.

R3G2 - He sides in Eidolon and gets it out T2. Being against burn i sided out bonus round and brought in guttersnipes, which I got out right after his eidolon. He bites the bullet to toast my 'snipe and i basically lose the game for him trying to fins an answer for the Eidolon (which mean churning for a wish for SB removal/Tendrils - went though a ton of cards and never found the wish).
1-2 Matched, 3-4 games.
---

List:
Main: 60
11 Mountain
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Act on Impulse
4 Lotus Petal
4 Burning Wish
4 Ruby Medallion
4 Desparate Ritual
4 Manamorphose
3 Seethign Song
3 Rite of Flame
3 Hazoret's Undying Fury
3 Past in Flames
2 Helm of Awakening
3 Reforge the Soul
1 Empty the warrens
3 Bonus Round

Side: 15
1 Rite of Flame
1 Bonus Round
1 Past in Flames
1 Empty the Warrens
1 Fiery Confluence
1 Mizzix's Mastery
1 Grapeshot
1 Reforge the Soul
1 Pyroclasm
1 By Force
1 Tendrils of Agony
3 Guttersnipe
1 Hazoret's Undying Fury

No bolts in the main or SB might be a bad move. We'll see. But I had fun with it and there was one other player who looked like they were on the UR list. Many players commented on the deck and seemed excited to watch it, even the players it was going off on lol.
Spent the rest of the day playing/testing pox and had similar results. 1-2 matches in tubro town, 1-1-1 in the 6PM legacy event.

Some misplays were probably not mulligan and possibly trying to go off too soon. Chalice on 1 isn't a problem if I can get a bonus round resolved, grave hate is also beatable as well, albeit more difficult. I think i may have been able to squeeze out a win on the first burn game with some different sequencing, but I'm also going of notes which were not kept very well so maybe not. Overall had a lot of fun with it, and it was my first time playing it against a real opponent so getting all my triggers and counts and everything was a bit of a pain but i managed it fairly well. Would have missed a few draw triggers on copies if it wasn't for the judge checking out our game, but it was mid going off so i think it was moot at that point.

[mistercakes]

glad you could give it a shot!

in my experience the helm's are a bit overkill, and i would really never drop the 4th seething song. it allows too many kills with bonus round (and it allows you to convert ancient tomb mana into red very easily.) i'd definitely run the 4th song over the 2nd helm.

you can prob try cutting 1 hazoret's and 1 pif for 2 more empty, 2 bolts, or 1 and 1. (both are very good upgrades).

other than that you might want to consider cutting 1 land for a simian spirit guide, but 15 lands is also just fine.

last part is just practice! (which in my experience is mostly having a good understanding of opening hands. if you had a hard time setting up for later turn wins (like turn 2 or turn 3 or turn 4, you might want to consider 4 luts and 3 AoI. this will help smooth out your draws a bit more.

good luck with it :)

[mistercakes]

i think i'm more or less sold on the blue version for the time being. one due to a pain point, one due to some printings.

// 60 Maindeck
// 12 Artifact
4 Lotus Petal
4 Ruby Medallion
4 Lion's Eye Diamond

// 14 Instant
4 Manamorphose
4 Seething Song
4 Brainstorm
2 Desperate Ritual

// 13 Land
4 Ancient Tomb
3 Volcanic Island
2 Scalding Tarn
1 Mountain
2 Wooded Foothills
1 Arid Mesa

// 21 Sorcery
3 Rite of Flame
4 Burning Wish
2 Past in Flames
4 Bonus Round
4 Ponder
2 Timetwister
2 Gamble


// 15 Sideboard
// 4 Instant
SB: 2 Flusterstorm
SB: 2 Echoing Truth

// 2 Planeswalker
SB: 2 Narset, Parter of Veils

// 9 Sorcery
SB: 1 Tendrils of Agony
SB: 1 Grapeshot
SB: 1 Past in Flames
SB: 1 Fiery Confluence
SB: 1 Rite of Flame
SB: 1 Empty the Warrens
SB: 1 Timetwister
SB: 1 Gamble
SB: 1 Hazoret's Undying Fury


the painpoint here is that there's too many games that come down to getting awkward draws with the deck, especially opening hands. the deck is extremely powerful (mono red), but variance is a bit too hard to account for.

+ with the new twister card i've wanted to play with gamble again for a while. with bonus round the cantrips can a lot more reliably use gamble as a tutor. the other main benefit of the blue is narset in the sb. i haven't had a chance to test her, and it's possible she should be maindeck (especially with LED and twister maindeck.)

will need to test more, but i'm most interesting in testing this list for now. the sb gamble could be just about anything though. maybe best as a third echoing truth.

[ronco]

glad you could give it a shot!

in my experience the helm's are a bit overkill, and i would really never drop the 4th seething song. it allows too many kills with bonus round (and it allows you to convert ancient tomb mana into red very easily.) i'd definitely run the 4th song over the 2nd helm.

you can prob try cutting 1 hazoret's and 1 pif for 2 more empty, 2 bolts, or 1 and 1. (both are very good upgrades).

other than that you might want to consider cutting 1 land for a simian spirit guide, but 15 lands is also just fine.

last part is just practice! (which in my experience is mostly having a good understanding of opening hands. if you had a hard time setting up for later turn wins (like turn 2 or turn 3 or turn 4, you might want to consider 4 luts and 3 AoI. this will help smooth out your draws a bit more.

good luck with it :)

I agree 100% on the 4th Seething song. I actually don't know why I don't have 4 in there. I think I put one in the SB once and then realized it wasn't a valid wish target (instant vs sorcery) and then moved it, or I pulled one for a bonus round. I really can't recall where I got rid of it. I didn't want to make too many changes to it last minute as I don't think I'm good enough to make those adjustments, minor as they may be, and play the deck effectively. So I left it and ran with it.

I agree on the practice part. Part of it is I just gold fish it and so its easy to say, oh, T1 this, t2 that, but without the interaction/ match ups, sideboard hate, or thinking about counter plays, I get a little flustered (ha!). So just getting used to playing live will go a long way. This weekend (magic fest) is my second time playing legacy with real opponents, so I'm just soaking in the experience when I can. Fun part about legacy - My friend is jamming standard decks and has run into, I think, 3-4 different decks all weekend in maybe 15-20 matches. I've played, I think, 11 different decks in 13 matches?

Mentor, Burn, 4C Loam, "15 post planeswalker" (new karn/Lattice variant), black/red goblins, grixis death's shadow, vial goblins (mono red), Canadian threshold/RUG Delver, new Karn/Lattice lock (another version of it), pox (mirror match), DnT. All decks i've never played before (but have obviously read about here on some of the more established ones). I'm having a blast.

[JosefK]

R1G2 - on the play - I tomb and pass. He sol lands out a chalice on 1. T2 I mountain and pass, he mentors and pass. T3 I wish for by force to deal with the chalice. I don't recall what his T3 was but it wasn't major. T4 I hazoret into manamorphose, bonus round, Past in flames. Then I win from there.

Chalice on 1 isn't a problem if I can get a bonus round resolved

Thanks for the report! If i see correctly you have 4 cards in total at 1, so i would say that chalice on 1 isn't much of a problem even if you don't have bonus round :)
Related information that can be easy to miss when playing in paper. If you have active bonus round and opponent has chalice for 1 and you cast ROF without any previous in the graveyard you actually get 3 mana. The chalice trigger resolves first binning the original, so when the copy resolves it checks the graveyard and sees one. Same with counterbalance.

[ronco]

Thanks for the report! If i see correctly you have 4 cards in total at 1, so i would say that chalice on 1 isn't much of a problem even if you don't have bonus round :)
Related information that can be easy to miss when playing in paper. If you have active bonus round and opponent has chalice for 1 and you cast ROF without any previous in the graveyard you actually get 3 mana. The chalice trigger resolves first binning the original, so when the copy resolves it checks the graveyard and sees one. Same with counterbalance.

I feel kinda dumb now going after the chalice in the first game. I'll chalk that up to general inexperience and not thinking about my deck list that way. Maybe I had a RoF in hand and needed it to go off, or just thought about mana cost with reducers and brain farted. Good call there haha. And good point about the triggers on chalice. I missed that when I went through it. Thanks!

[Lammina]

Hi everybody!

Could you help me with my Mono Red Ledless version?

Which modifications can I try?

Main: 60
6 Mountain
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Sandstone Needle
4 Act on Impulse
4 Lotus Petal
4 Burning Wish
4 Ruby Medallion
4 Desparate Ritual
4 Manamorphose
4 Seething Song
4 Rite of Flame
4 Light Up the Stage
3 Bonus Round
3 Lightning Bolt
2 Past in Flames
1 Hazoret's Undying Fury
1 Reforge the Soul

Side: 15
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Bonus Round
1 Fiery Confluence
1 Past in Flames
1 Empty the Warrens
1 Grapeshot
1 Reforge the Soul
1 Cave-In
1 By Force
3 Defense Grid
3 Guttersnipe


Cyah,

Lammina

[mistercakes]

i like that list more or less as is. if you're afraid of wasteland decks you can run only 1-2 sandstone and fill the rest with mountains. if you have a delver heavy metagame, then it might make sense to find room for 1-2 spirit guides and change the haz + reforge into 2 empty.

i really like bolt in the maindeck. there are times when you want the 4th RoF in the sb for bonus round. it might be better to have it in the maindeck, although it's always difficult to tell.

[Lammina]

i like that list more or less as is. if you're afraid of wasteland decks you can run only 1-2 sandstone and fill the rest with mountains. if you have a delver heavy metagame, then it might make sense to find room for 1-2 spirit guides and change the haz + reforge into 2 empty.

i really like bolt in the maindeck. there are times when you want the 4th RoF in the sb for bonus round. it might be better to have it in the maindeck, although it's always difficult to tell.

Maybe exchange one RoF for the Bonus Round in the side? Or one copy of BR in sideboard is interesting?
And - 2 LUtS +2 Simian, what do you think?

[mistercakes]

http://www.tcdecks.net/results.php?token=Decks&tname=&nlow=&nhigh=&from=&to=&player=&aname=&dname=red+storm&format=Legacy&main=&nomain=&side=&noside=&strict=on

looks like there's a few decks in here that might help. hope you find a list you are happy with here.

[mistercakes]

any thoughts on running daze in UR?

it looks like ANT is being more accepting of running daze now (on the facebook thread)

and i’m wondering how much value it provides for this deck

b/c doing something like:

seething song (they counter) you daze, and then you get to do your bonus round shenanigans
and for decks utilizing act on impulse/light up the stage, you can still cast daze even from exile with the return an island clause.

the deck doesn't really have very good ways of getting through permanent based hate and countermagic, other than brute force (which is usually enough), but maybe this idea should be entertained here as well.

-Rob

[Lammina]

http://www.tcdecks.net/results.php?token=Decks&tname=&nlow=&nhigh=&from=&to=&player=&aname=&dname=red+storm&format=Legacy&main=&nomain=&side=&noside=&strict=on

looks like there's a few decks in here that might help. hope you find a list you are happy with here.

Ty Mister!

[mistercakes]

if anyone is interested in the blue/red version, i'm feeling pretty confident this is where the deck can go:


// 60 Maindeck
// 12 Artifact
4 Lotus Petal
4 Ruby Medallion
4 Lion's Eye Diamond

// 12 Instant
4 Manamorphose
4 Seething Song
4 Brainstorm

// 14 Land
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Volcanic Island
2 Scalding Tarn
1 Mountain
2 Wooded Foothills
1 Arid Mesa

// 3 Planeswalker
3 Narset, Parter of Veils

// 19 Sorcery
3 Rite of Flame
4 Burning Wish
2 Past in Flames
3 Bonus Round
4 Ponder
3 Reforge the Soul


// 15 Sideboard
// 5 Instant
SB: 2 Flusterstorm
SB: 3 Echoing Truth

// 10 Sorcery
SB: 1 Tendrils of Agony
SB: 1 Grapeshot
SB: 1 Past in Flames
SB: 1 Fiery Confluence
SB: 1 Rite of Flame
SB: 1 Empty the Warrens
SB: 1 Timetwister
SB: 1 Gamble
SB: 1 Hazoret's Undying Fury
SB: 1 Reforge the Soul

[ReAnimator]

This might be crazy, but in your updated UR build you only have 20 spells main deck that actually work with Ruby Medallion, and only 9 (if we are counting Reforge) that work with 2 of them in play.

Is it worth cutting them back or finding alternate mana accelerants?
I know it's the namesake of the deck and it is an engine, but it's efficiency is greatly diminished now.

[mistercakes]

I also tested with 3 and this doesn't seem too bad either. With all of the cantrips I think it's fine. I wouldn't go to 2 though bc turn 1 ruby is still extremely powerful.

Bc the cantrip deck can play a cantrip turn 1 and find a Ruby if need be, the turn 1 ruby is less important

[JosefK]

My first builds of UR-bonus round did not include ruby at all, when probe got banned i had found this thread and thought i just switch the probes for ruby medallions just to try. And well, they are still there :) I think it's wrong to cut them. They help so much vs taxing decks and enable a lot more turn 2 kills (but i play with desperate over LED, so might be that). I never sideboard any out, i did vs fast combo for awhile, but the more i play with them the more i realize just how much speed they give. I don't have numbers, but it feels like they are involved a lot in my t2 kills, plays like t1 cantrip, t2 tomb desperate bonus manamorphose burning wish or similar.

I did try out daze, felt great my first 2 matches vs ANT and Show n tell but it felt really weak vs control. They gave me some fake confidence to go off vs an untapped island, hoping they only have spell pierce and then they fow or flusterstorm me. But if i instead wait they get so much mana that it becomes irrelevant. I dunno, will try some more games.

[mistercakes]

i've been pretty quiet on here for this deck. just been tinkering around with other stuff.

after a bunch of goldfishing around with various builds, more with the UR versions - i think i've found a mono red version that i'm pretty happy with.

// 60 Maindeck
// 12 Artifact
4 Lotus Petal
4 Ruby Medallion
4 Lion's Eye Diamond

// 3 Creature
3 Simian Spirit Guide

// 9 Instant
4 Manamorphose
4 Seething Song
1 Desperate Ritual

// 13 Land
4 Ancient Tomb
7 Mountain
2 Sandstone Needle

// 23 Sorcery
4 Act on Impulse
4 Burning Wish
2 Past in Flames
3 Rite of Flame
4 Bonus Round
3 Reforge the Soul
3 Echo of Eons


// 15 Sideboard
// 5 Instant
SB: 1 Abrade
SB: 2 Kozilek's Return
SB: 2 Lightning Bolt

// 10 Sorcery
SB: 1 Hazoret's Undying Fury
SB: 1 Empty the Warrens
SB: 1 Past in Flames
SB: 1 Grapeshot
SB: 1 Fiery Confluence
SB: 1 Tendrils of Agony
SB: 1 Pulverize
SB: 1 Rite of Flame
SB: 1 Reforge the Soul
SB: 1 Echo of Eons


the echo isn't the greatest card in the deck, but it does have synergy with led (as found with lots of other brews, but also with bonus round and with reforge the soul.

it helps the decks mulligan chances a lot. i thought i would want to run it with gamble, but the more i play with it - i just look at it as an addition to the deck, and not a build around.

if you're able to cast bonus round and then echo, you are able to get 2 twisters with a twister remaining in the graveyard. if you hit spirit guides and/or manamorphose, you shouldn't have a problem casting it out of the grave if necessary. (or led in the 2nd hand)

the sb is more rounded now. 1 abrade + 2 bolts for the delver + thalia decks. 2 kozilek's return for more thalia + random creature decks. 1 pulverize which can be wished for even with spirit guide mana. so there's an out to even karn + lattice. with 7 mountains it's easily attainable.

(EDIT: I would recommend only start testing this list with the new London mulligan rule, that's where the big benefit of Echo comes in the most)

[mistercakes]

Turn 1 ruby
Turn 2 mtn seething song. Gives you 1RRRRR Bonus round, repeated reverberation (1RRRR), manamorphose. This casts

1 bonus round copy for manamorphose, 4 copies for repeated reverberation. 1 original copy. 12 mana and 6 cards.


2nd and more importantly, realistic scenario.
Turn 1 ruby
Turn 2 mtn seething song, repeated reverberation, act on impulse. (flip 9 cards and have R floating.)

This also just requires 7 mana without a Ruby, which is pretty easy to get by turn 3.

Would be interesting to test it a little, as the extra mana and a one time use is very powerful, especially with act on impulse or manamorphose.

[mistercakes]

starting to play on modo a little more now. will hopefully have some deck changes in a few days for the mono red version.

[JosefK]

Nice :)

I've not been playing that much lately, but i've been experimenting with narsets, dazes and aria of flame. I currently enjoy having a single Aria of Flame, it's nice to have against PW:s and it's really hard for grixis/UR to remove, but it sucks to get it bounced with 3-4 counters on it.

I played the format playoffs yesterday, went 5-3. Lost 1-2 vs rug delver, 1-2 vs ANT and 1-2 vs grixis delver. Won 2-0 vs miracles, 2-1 vs grixis control, 2-0 vs enchantress, 2-0 vs eldrazi and 2-1 vs sneak and show. Deck felt good and i could have won all the 3 games i lost had i played differently (or in one case, if i had tendrils in the board).

This is what i played.

4 Ancient Tomb
4 Lotus Petal
4 Ruby Medallion
4 Burning Wish
4 Ponder
3 Rite of Flame
4 Brainstorm
4 Bonus Round
4 Manamorphose
1 Past in Flames
1 Mountain
3 Reforge the Soul
3 Volcanic Island
1 Arid Mesa
3 Desperate Ritual
4 Seething Song
4 Scalding Tarn
1 Island
1 Aria of Flame
1 Intuition
2 Simian Spirit Guide

SB

2 Empty the Warrens
1 Hazoret's Undying Fury
1 Past in Flames
1 Rite of Flame
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Grapeshot
1 Fiery Confluence
2 Flusterstorm
1 Abrade
1 Echoing Truth
1 Spell Pierce
2 Defense Grid

[Metropolitano]

I usually play different variants of the monored version, and I think that M20 brings us some toys to test.

1.-Bag of holding
Could we abuse on this card, combined with Reforge the soul? It could give us 7+7 cards, good fuel for our hand.

2.- Repeated reverberation
I’m thinking on combinations with this card, bonus round and lightning bolt.
Something like:
Repeated reverberation > Bonus round ( + 2 copies) > resolve to obtain 7 virtual copies of a definitive Lightning bolt (24 damage)
Is this play correct? If not, how could we combine them to optimize this play?

Thank you all for this sweety deck.
Make them burn!

[mistercakes]

i thought about those 2 cards. i'm not sure that repeated reverberation really deserves a slot here, but might as well test it.

the artifact could be okay in matchups where you need to grind it out and get a few more card draws in, but it's hard to say.

i am actually a little interesting in the 3cc chandra. it starts at 4 loyalty, can go to 5 when it comes into play, can make some attackers (not sure if this is great, but does work okay with light up the stage).

the main ability is the flashback for a card (-2) ability.

realistically you are going to be able to fire this off twice. would require testing, but i kind of like this idea. if there were a way to pair it with some other planeswalker that's a nice bonus, but i'm okay with it on its own.

[Watcher487]

Something like:
Repeated reverberation > Bonus round ( + 2 copies) > resolve to obtain 7 virtual copies of a definitive Lightning bolt (24 damage)
Is this play correct? If not, how could we combine them to optimize this play?


That would give you only 2 bonus round triggers, since bonus round doesn't trigger on copies or spells already on the stack. (9 damage)

Bonus Round -> Repeated Reverberation (+Bonus Round trigger) -> Lightning Bolt (15 damage)

[mistercakes]

The 2nd one BR into three X would make 6 copies for the following spell.

[Watcher487]

The 2nd one BR into three X would make 6 copies for the following spell.

How would it make 6 copies? You only get 2 copies off of Repeated Reverberation cast by itself. Bonus Round only triggers off of instants and sorceries CAST not copied.


And I apologize, Repeated Reverberation -> Bonus Round -> Lightning Bolt would give you 3 copies + original (12 damage)