RGB Driven to Despair Prowess

[ReAnimator]

So I’ve been wanting to play a non blue prowess style deck for a while and Driven to Despair gave me the perfect synergistic reason for doing so, as it works in so many different ways with your creature base and heavy discard strategy already. I like discard more than counter spells for prowess as you can stay proactive. Also Driven, can try to keep you up with card advantage vs blue decks.

http://static.starcitygames.com/sales/cardscans/MTG/HOU/en/nonfoil/DrivenDespair.jpg

Current List

4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Soul-scar Mage
4 Kiln Fiend
4 Young Pyromancer

4 Driven//Despair
3 Thoughtseize
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Gitaxian Probe
2 Abrupt Decay
4 Lightning Bolt
1 Claim//Fame

4 Land Grant

3 Badlands
3 Taiga
1 Bayou
2 Bloodstained Mire
3 Wooded Foothills
2 Verdant Catacombs

Sideboard (speculative)
3 Surgical Extraction
3 Pyroblast
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Null Rod
2 Pyrokinesis
2 Price of Progress
1 Dreadbore
2 Golgari Charm


I cut the Manamorphose as they under performed, have added the 4th Driven, and am trying out a Claim to Fame.

Some card discussion:

Kiln Fiend vs Tarmogoyf.
This is a tough call (or I could just be an idiot). Goyf is obviously better in a vacuum but Kiln gets pretty out of control easily, and you don’t need to run any special enablers to give him evasion in here, as both sides of Driven To Despair work really well with him. Goyf also makes you even more graveyard dependent, which I would worry about after board, and I would want some sort artifact or other type to make goyfs bigger in here as under your own power you can only get him to a 4/5 which isn’t super exciting, where as fiend is swing for at least 4 a turn, usually more. This might be one of those things where on paper Fiend seems justifiable but in actual games and vs heavy removal you just want Goyf. One other minor consideration is that you really don’t have much green in here

Manamorphose
Not sure this is quite good enough in here as a 4 of, it’s clunkier in practice than you would think. There just isn’t anything else that is “free” for keeping the gas flowing, and there are times when the 2 mana initial cost can be a bit awkward. It’s possible 2-3 is a better number, I just want to keep the cantrips and card drawing high.

Claim to Fame
I could see wanting one or two of these in the main, it has a lot of synergy here, but It’s hard to find space main, and it’s not relevant vs a lot of decks.

Land Grant
People scoff at this card, but being able to replace lands with free spells in a deck that cares very much about casting spells is not to be under estimated. I’ve run it in other prowess/spell based decks before, and it’s always impressed me. Unlike in belcher you have other lands and discard and probe to not get blown out by counters. The mana base here is similar in size to RUG Delver’s if you take out the wastelands which really don’t help you cast any cards in that list for the most part. We are at the bare minimum for targets, so it’s possible to maybe trim one from the numbers, but I’m starting here.


I’m looking to run this at an upcoming GP side event, so happy to hear any feedback and suggestions.

[mistercakes]

Don't forget removal

[tescrin]

I think you do:
-4 Kiln Fiend
+4 Tarmogoyf

-4 Land Grant, -1 Gitaxian Probe
+2 Fetch
+3 Oath of Nissa

-2 Manamorphose
+2 Ghor-Clan Rampager

Oath of Nissa is a cantrip and will smooth your opening hands, which you are desperate for in non-blue.
Ghor-Clan may even want to be a 3 or 4. You want that trample and +4 to close out games. It's uncounterable vs most decks and increases the number of cards Oath hits.

Note: Oath triggers Prowess. Sorceries need not apply if you can find cards in this vein that just happen to be different card types. You probably want to have Urza's and/or Mishra's baublesds to pump goyf while pumping your dudes. I think looking at Flashback spells is reasonable as well. Oath of Ghouls is also a good 1-of to consider as any non-combo deck that is successfully fending you off is killing your dudes (you have a lot of them), unless it's Topless. Urza's Bauble even has good synergy with Cabal Therapy!

[ReAnimator]

I like the idea of Oath but 1 mana is a lot more than sometimes zero. Traverse the uvenwald is something to consider too.

Also Young Pyromancer is the best guy in this list synergy wise, and he doesn't have real prowess only Instants and Sorceries trigger him which is a major factor.

I love a Ghor clan, and have run it many many times in Modern, but not sure if it's better than something spell based like a berserk or other option for here.



@mistercakes

Yeah removal is a factor, i could squeeze in a couple decays or push's main. The bolts and just relying on my own gameplan and having a lot of creatures might not be enough.

[ReAnimator]

So I played in two, four round side events at GP Toronto with slight variations of the list.

I went 7-1 vs a wide array of decks.
I think this concept is pretty solid, there is some tweaking to be done for sure, but overall I was very happy with how the deck performed, and it felt like it had some chops and could at least hang and be competitive at a local level.

Vs a lot of the fair decks my guys were just bigger and faster. Casting 3 mana 2/2’s vs a deck like this with essentially 1 mana ¾’s and removal isn’t going too get you very far, it was very easy to put people on the back foot and in positions they couldn’t climb out of. Legacy doesn’t really have much in the way of agro beat downs, so a lot of the fair decks have a bunch of creatures not made for combat, and low on removal. They just aren’t necessarily set up to handle decks like this, and rightfully so.

Kiln fiend was very good, and I didn’t want Goyf at all at least in these matches. There were multiple games where I killed on turn 3 and that was all kiln fiend, goyf doesn’t put up those sort of turns despite being more resilient in a lot of situations and better in long games. There is a decent amount of graveyard dependence in here because of DRS, Driven to Despair and Therapy, that going with Goyfs would start making grave hate pretty effective vs me.

Land Grant was incredible, having land drops count towards your spell count for prowess was amazing.
I felt like I needed one more target for Grant/Fetches as in a few long games I ran out of targets, but it was mostly fine and never cost me a game. The mana might be a touch too greedy (14 lands greedy? You don’t say!) but it feels close to right.

Driven to Despair was really decent, even just drawing 2 cards is relevant to keep the gas flowing. Giving Kiln Fiends or very pumped up 1 drops evasion was also great. I want to go up to 4.

In the first event I ran the posted list but with -2 Manamorphose +2 Abrupt decay main.
In the second one, I ran the posted list but with -4 Manamorphose +2 Abrupt Decay +2 Night’s Whisper

I liked Whisper more than I liked Manamorphose, but I would like the 4th Driven more than the second Whisper, not sure if it will remain as a one of. Kolaghans command is an idea, but I’m pretty hesitant to put a 3 mana spell in here. Right now I’m trying out Claim to Fame, but I feel that might be a board card as there are matches where your guys just don’t get killed.

Sideboard was a bit different too:
2 Pyrokinesis (better than Covenant, just didn’t think of it earlier)
3 Pyroblast
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Null Rod
2 Price of Progress
1 Dreadbore
2 Golgari Charm
3 Surgical Extraction

Not super happy with charm, but I don’t know if there are better TNN solutions available.


Here’s a very quick and dirty tournament report. I played a LOT of magic a the GP so it’s all a bit of a blur, so I might have some details wrong, these are more my impressions of how the match felt.

Event number 1

Round 1
Vs Merfolk.

My friend was piloting this. This is just not a remotely competitive match up. Other than True name you have nothing to fear, they have a bunch of 2/2’s for two and three that can get pumped, you have ¾’s for 1 or possibly bigger and are backed up with removal. Even with a true name there isn’t any equipment to make him big and you can remove their lords that pump him with ease. Post board you get Pyroblasts and Pyrokinesis, for your more dead cards, and they really don’t have much of a chance.
1-0

Round 2
Vs 4 Colour Czeck Pile
His build has some techy cards in it like a Dack Fayden (which is pretty filthy with a Leovold in play, as you can plus him to make your opponent discard 2).
Leovold is an issue, but he is also pretty easy to remove, but until you do he can shut off a lot of your cards and really slow you down. As described above this is one of those fair matches where their creatures are just really clunky in comparison, however they are powerful. Also they don’t have a ton of removal, so you should be better ahead on board presence faster, you just have to maintain that advantage early and disrupt them enough to maintain that presence. Post board you get a lot of excellent tools that are hard for them to fight through.
2-0

Round 3
Vs Ad Naus Tendrils
I knew he was on storm, I’m on the play, and can either Thoughtseize turn one, or get a board presence with a Soulscar Mage, then turn two start disrupting him. I go with the mage, and he kills me turn one. Wah wahhh
Games 2 and 3 go much more according to plan.
Game 2 Kiln fiend killed him on turn 3 on the play, I was dead if he got to his third turn. It’s nice to be able to race combo sometimes.
Game 3 I’m able to get some creatures down after making sure I’m not dead with a probe and kill him while disrupting.
3-0

Round 4
Vs Dead guy Ale
This was also a friend of mine, we agreed to split and play the match for fun.
My guys are just bigger and faster. Equipment game one can be a problem, but that’s what the discard is for. Lingering souls is pretty annoying and tough to grind through but other than kiln fiend all my other creatures are pretty good at crashing into spirit tokens, as It takes a lot of them to actually trade with something.
4-0

Event 2

Round 1
Vs Goblins
Goblin Lacky is just not a reasonable card vs a deck with 12 ½’s. 4 mana 2/2’s and 3 mana 1/1’s are also sub par. He was running a more LD focused build with Goblin Settlers and such. While my mana is really low, it takes a while for him to get that resource denial going, and I really don’t need much mana to operate.

Game 2 I get chaliced. But I got a soulscar down and then a kiln fiend. The game ends when I play 3 bolts into a chalice just to pump my team, and he takes a whole bunch of damage.
1-0

Round 2
Vs TES
After probing me on turn 2 he realizes I can kill him on turn three, he has to go for it, but isn’t sure if he will get there, but he does.
Game 2 I have to mull, and only have one piece of disruption. I do have a turn 3 kill but he is able to go off on turn 2 again.

Really close, as we were both racing, I feel like If I had just one more piece of interaction in either game I would have got there.
1-1

Round 3
Vs High Tide
This deck is so cool, but also my deck is just a nightmare for him. Fast clock that he can’t interact with, backed up with disruption.
Post board it only gets worse for him as I get to take out dead cards like bolt, and put in pyroblasts and surgicals.
2-1

Round 4
Vs Alluren
I hadn’t played vs the newer style of alluren decks before. He had Glint-nest Crane and a small equipment package, lots of value dudes, Strix, Shardless all the usual suspects.
Strixes are a bit of a problem as they are pure value and can trade with even your biggest guys. If they get rolling all their mediocre value creatures can over whelm you, but their creatures are pretty anemic in combat, and take time to roll out.
Post board, Pyrokinesis and Pyroblast can do a lot of work clearing the way. Also Price of progress gives you a lot of reach as it’s super difficult for them to do a grindy value game against you without making a bunch of land drops.
Game 2 I crashed in on turn 3 with 2 5/6 swiftspears with trample from Driven, vs his one strix, puts him to 10, and I’d revealed my hand to land grant and he saw that I had a bolt and a POP. He was not really sure what combo of cards could dig him out, of that, and I’m pretty sure the answer was none.
3-1


So 7-1 over all, felt like a pretty decent start for this brew, I’m definitely going to keep exploring it, it’s a lot of fun, and for the most part your opponents have no clue what you are doing, which is satisfying.


Here's some poor quality pics of a current build (Whisper will be replaced by a Driven when i get one). Semi pimped out.

http://i.imgur.com/O4CS8GZ.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/V20VBiO.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/PgWmsCR.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/TDTNl7I.jpg

[crowe_1]

Deck looks seeet. Is running a few basics plausible to be a little more Wasteland-and-Moon-proof? Though I guess Blood.Moon wouldn't be wonderful against you to start with...

[apple713]

The card you are missing is berserk. Very easy to swing for 20 on a kiln fiend.

[ReAnimator]

Deck looks seeet. Is running a few basics plausible to be a little more Wasteland-and-Moon-proof? Though I guess Blood.Moon wouldn't be wonderful against you to start with...

I think the costs outweigh the benefits. I don't think you can run basics, there just isn't room. Even the 3rd Taiga seems bad and clunky i didn't run it at the tournaments. You really don't need much mana to operate, and much like delver you have a reasonable amount of ways to dig for more mana. Also if you already have a board presence, wastelanding you isn't going to buy your opponent much time.

[ReAnimator]

The card you are missing is berserk. Very easy to swing for 20 on a kiln fiend.


I've run Berserk Kiln fiend decks in the past, quite a bit. With this iteration of the deck you go more wide for the most part. Without other pump spells Berserk only works with Kiln fiend and not really well with any of your other dudes, which makes it pretty inconsistent and unreliable. If i was to put in some berserks it's hard to justify without another big creature like goyf and some pump. Which i think change the direction of the deck cause you would need to cut Young Pyromancers and such. I've tried it before and it really does lead you to be a different deck.

[monovfox]

Well I'm a big kiln fiend fan, so I'm intrigued. What's your current list?

Edit: Played a couple matches with list in OP. This was honestly a lot better than I thought it was going to be. Claim to fame is really good, might be worth maindecking.

Edit 2: Grixis delver is an ass matchup, thus this deck is currently unplayable unless you can magically develop an answer to Gurmag angler. Also really think you should consider goyf in the kiln fiend slot, kiln fiend dying to everything feels real bad.

[Claymore]

As a jank answer, if the deck does go wide you can try Deadly Allure to get past Anglers.

[ReAnimator]

Well I'm a big kiln fiend fan, so I'm intrigued. What's your current list?

Edit: Played a couple matches with list in OP. This was honestly a lot better than I thought it was going to be. Claim to fame is really good, might be worth maindecking.

Edit 2: Grixis delver is an ass matchup, thus this deck is currently unplayable unless you can magically develop an answer to Gurmag angler. Also really think you should consider goyf in the kiln fiend slot, kiln fiend dying to everything feels real bad.


Current List is the one in the pictures, with -1 Nights Whispers +1 Driven.

Changes from the OP -4 Manamorphose -1 Fetch +1 Taiga +2 Decay +1 Driven +1 Claim.

I am running a Claim main deck at the moment.

As per Angler, you could go with Dreadbore or Terminate in the board. Also bolts are pretty effective if you have a Soul Scar in play. The other option is running something like Black Leyline.

As for goyf, i've outlined why i don't want him in here, but it certainly is something you could run for sure. Just depends if you want to be less explosive and more grindy. If you feel resilience (depending on grave hate) is better than explosiveness then that is the swap to make for sure. Goyf is better vs the fair decks and worse vs combo.

[Whitefaces]

Soul-Scar Mage + Bolt is also good vs Angler. EDIT: ReAnimator got in just before me!

I really like the look of this, will buy some Driven to Despair and try it :smile:

[ReAnimator]

Soul-Scar Mage + Bolt is also good vs Angler. EDIT: ReAnimator got in just before me!

I really like the look of this, will buy some Driven to Despair and try it :smile:


too quick!

Let me know how it goes, it's a blast to play for sure.

[Mr. Safety]

The card you are missing is berserk. Very easy to swing for 20 on a kiln fiend.

Seconded.

You are basically playing a sligh deck, which means you want maximum damage output for each mana. Berserk by itself makes your kiln fiend attack for 8 damage. I wouldn't be opposed to playing Mutagenic Growth either. I think you want to maximize your chances of a turn 2 kill (because racing combo is important.) Mutagenic might play better than Manamorphose.

[rufus]

If you switch to goyf, you could try baubles instead of Manamorphose.

I'm curious about how well Soul-Scar Mage performs. Goblin Guide seems like it could do work in that slot.

Raven's Crime might work as a 1 or 2 of.

You've got enough mountains for Fireblast.

Something like Become Immense could also work as targeted pump, but it's risky to target your own stuff.

Kari Zev is pretty good with the 'go wide' concept.

[ReAnimator]

If you switch to goyf, you could try baubles instead of Manamorphose.

I'm curious about how well Soul-Scar Mage performs. Goblin Guide seems like it could do work in that slot.

Raven's Crime might work as a 1 or 2 of.

You've got enough mountains for Fireblast.

Something like Become Immense could also work as targeted pump, but it's risky to target your own stuff.

Kari Zev is pretty good with the 'go wide' concept.


Well i've cut Manamorphose so getting baubles in probably isn't going to happen. Also Bauble doesn't work with pyromancer.

Soul-Scar has been fine, not having haste is obviously a huge downgrade from Swiftspear, but the ability to grow has made it more valuable than the haste from Goblin Guide. The nice thing about the 1/2's is that they can get in there vs Leovolds, or Shardless Agents, and even True Names, Guide can't really do that ever. It's not unusual to be casting 2-4 spells on a key turn, and with that in mind Guide really is left lacking.

Pretty sure i'm not going to add Raven's Crime to the deck with 14 lands and no way to abuse it. It's so far out of scope from what we are trying to accomplish.

I like the idea of fire blast, but realistically how much better is it than a chain lightning?

Kari Zev is cool, but the tokens aren't permanent, also they don't get the bonus from Driven. She's also just worse than other 2 drops we are already not playing.


Thanks for your feedback though!

[Fox]

Has anyone tried Lava Dart in this list?

[Mr. Safety]

Apostle's Blessing?

[ReAnimator]

I think Apostles blessing isn't what we need so much. Discard helps protect our creatures, and Driven and Removal help our guys punch through. If we just want it for grinding through removal, is Claim to Fame not better?


Lava dart is a sick throw back. For sure you couldn't run it main deck, and i don't know if it would do enough work in the board especially compared to something like pyrokinesis. For sure something to keep in mind. The real question is, does it do more work than other options for board slots. VS something like D&T it has to compete with Dread of Night, and Pyrokinesis, and Golgari Charm.

[drinkard]

How about shocklands and Death's Shadow? Might be wishful thinking on my part.

[Nekrataal]

Grim Flayer could also be a consideration as a 2-Off as it has a natural trample ability.

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[ReAnimator]

How about shocklands and Death's Shadow? Might be wishful thinking on my part.


The reason Shadow is so strong in Modern, is because Fetch Shock mana bases are one of the best mana bases you can build around for that format, and Shadow incentivizes you for doing so, it is the best Fetch land deck you can be playing. In Legacy you are not running the best fetch mana base you can, you are specifically going out of your way to play a sub optimal mana base for the rewards Shadow gives you. Now that might be worth it, i've tried it before with 4x Berserk, and it was a lot of fun, but you don't have any natural incentives for doing so, and that's a problem. It's certainly fun to play around with, but it's not what this deck is really looking for.

[ReAnimator]

Grim Flayer could also be a consideration as a 2-Off as it has a natural trample ability.

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I don't think Trample is specifically what we are looking for. Also why do we want flayer over goyf or any other card? what is our reason for running it? We would need to add more things to our deck just to accommodate him, like artifacts and such.

If we are just in the market for evasion beyond Driven and Removal, there are lots of ways to get it, i don't know if the rewards and pay offs are there for Flayer.

[Fox]

The reason Shadow is so strong in Modern, is because Fetch Shock mana bases are one of the best mana bases you can build around for that format, and Shadow incentivizes you for doing so, it is the best Fetch land deck you can be playing. In Legacy you are not running the best fetch mana base you can, you are specifically going out of your way to play a sub optimal mana base for the rewards Shadow gives you. Now that might be worth it, i've tried it before with 4x Berserk, and it was a lot of fun, but you don't have any natural incentives for doing so, and that's a problem. It's certainly fun to play around with, but it's not what this deck is really looking for.

The thing about Shadow in legacy is that with our card pool you don't need to run more than 1-2 Shocklands. We have way more ways to lose life (Daze the Shock, Git. Probe, Snuff Out, and Berserk as removal...I mean you could even Entomb/Reanimate a Grisel), and don't need to run terrible mana or nonsense like Baubles or Street Wraith. If you're playing optimally in legacy, it's always going to be a UBg build whereas this is more of a burn deck.

[ReAnimator]

Yeah for sure Shadow is really powerful and worth exploring, but not in this deck, it makes you go in a bunch of directions that you wouldn't otherwise be going.

I've always wanted to try Tarnished Citadel in a legacy Death's shadow, but it's probably not worth it.

[Stuuch]

Hi!

I have been playing this deck on modo and it´s been a blast to play. Went twice 1-3 and drop but two previous leagues have been 3-2 and 4-1. Maybe the first two leagues I misplayed or kept the wrong hands because I have not played the deck before. Kiln Fiend is a card that I dislike the most but when It´s good it just wins the game so I dont know. Thanks for posting the list. It´s nice to play another deck besides UR Delver.

[ReAnimator]

Hi!

I have been playing this deck on modo and it´s been a blast to play. Went twice 1-3 and drop but two previous leagues have been 3-2 and 4-1. Maybe the first two leagues I misplayed or kept the wrong hands because I have not played the deck before. Kiln Fiend is a card that I dislike the most but when It´s good it just wins the game so I dont know. Thanks for posting the list. It´s nice to play another deck besides UR Delver.


Glad you are having fun with it. For sure it’s a blast to play. Would love to hear any feedback on other things you like and dislike and would like to change especially sideboarding. I hear you on the fiend, when it’s good it’s just absurd, so I guess a little high variance, but it does just give you some absurd wins for sure.

In regards to how to play it, and getting familiar for sure it does take some getting used to, the weirdest thing about the deck is some of the sequencing. It’s often right to not play spells even when you can, I often hold Land Grants and Probes, until I can translate them into damage. Most Legacy decks don’t play out that way, you want to resolve your spells when you can, where as this deck really rewards you for sandbagging spells for a big turn, which isn’t an intuitive play pattern compared to other decks. Firing off Probes just for digging is almost always wrong, like sometimes you have to do it, but it’s usually much better to wait, to see if you can go all in, or to pair it with a company. In contrast to that, firing off a Driven just for 2 cards is often the right play.

[Stuuch]

I like the sideboard but own only 2 Surgicals in Modo so I put a Dismember in and was very happy with it. I still won vs Tin Fins and Br Reanimator because deathrite and fast clock + discard is good. I intend to test a couple of Atarka´s Command to see if it´s worth it in the main deck. I think swapping them with 1 Kiln Fiend and Night´s whisper. Would like to fit in the 4th copy of Driven too.

[ReAnimator]

Sounds reasonable. I've cut the Nights whisper for the 4th driven as well (see the updated list on the first page).

Atarka's seems interesting for sure.

Dismember is strong, i'm not sure if it's better than Push/Dreadbore/Terminate, but it very well could be, there are soooo many options for removal here. It'll be tricky to figure out what is best.

[toletole]

@ReAnimator
Dude A couple of weeks ago I wrote an article about your deck in a Facebook Legacy group we have here in Argentina. I gave all credit to you and share the link of this thread. Just wanted to tell you that you have a couple of fans over here! Let us know any updates/reports you have with the deck I didn't have the opportunity to test it properly yet.

[AceOfJacks]

Have you considered Diabolic Intent for this deck? It synergizes with Young Pyromancer quite well,

[ReAnimator]

@ReAnimator
Dude A couple of weeks ago I wrote an article about your deck in a Facebook Legacy group we have here in Argentina. I gave all credit to you and share the link of this thread. Just wanted to tell you that you have a couple of fans over here! Let us know any updates/reports you have with the deck I didn't have the opportunity to test it properly yet.


Sweet!

I don't get out to play very often, and i also play a ton of different formats. I'm hoping to play this on friday, and i'll type something up if i do for sure. Cool Let me know if you or anyone else there gets any testing in and has any upgrades. I'd love to hear about it.


@Aceofjacks
Intent is a pretty sweet and powerful card, but i don't know if it really does anything for us in here, that raw card drawing wouldn't do better. I think we are fairly redundant in here, so what are we tutoring for? how do we fit it in and the tool box to make it worth while? Also while it's obviously great with Young Pyro, we don't have that many other creatures we are interested in sacrificing.

[ReAnimator]

So I made it out to FNM, a decent crowd with a lot of skilled players. I went 3-1. I definitely ran hot in some places and my opponents ran cold sometimes too, but I’ll take it and it still shows the deck has some promise and can hang.

R1
Vs RUG Delver
A blast from the past, this was a classic rug deck with stifles and with TNN and Mandrils for more contemporary updates.

G1 His delver just refuses to flip for a while, and he can’t set it up, he gets some ground forces going but I’m able to close it out at a low life total thanks to the damage he missed out on in the early turns.
G2 Is really really strange, he can’t find a red source forever, and only has tropical, despite playing like 3 ponders and a Brainstorm. I’m stuck on lands for a very long time, I think this game went to about turn 20 or so, just really weird but I’m eventually able to crack through as I keep drawing spells thanks to my super low land count and despite him playing a bunch of cantrips he never really finds the right gas he needs.
He was super unlucky in both these games.

R2
Vs 4 Colour Loam
G1 I get a swiftspear and Young pyromancer going, He lands a Chalice on 1 turn 2. I end up with about 5 tokens off of running my 1 mana spells into his chalice for some minor value. I get to hit with a Driven to draw 5 cards. He has a big Knight and a Arbor on blocking duty. I get him down to 3 life, before he’s able to lock me out with a tabernacle and wasteland recursion. Very very close I needed to hit a Decay or something earlier, to get back in it. I had the option of running out Kiln Fiend over the Pyromancer turn 2, and it’s possible that would have won me the game with how it all played out, but I didn’t know what he was on.
G2 My hand doesn’t really pan out, and I come out of the gates too slow. He locks me out with Punishing Fires.

This match up seems really abysmal and even though I have price of progress and other tools I think a lot would have to go right for me to win a match here.

R3
BUG Delver
G1 I’m able to get the jump on him as he’s playing cantrips and I’m playing cheap creatures and getting ahead on the board. Combat is pretty miserable for him as I have big cheap creatures and he’s got 3/3’s for 3 and such. I make a bunch of misplays and misevaluate a few things but I get there anyway. Must be nice.
G2 we have an attrition battle and we both end up with nothing on the table and no cards in hand, over the next few turns he’s able to chain ponders and brainstorms but doesn’t have much in play. I just keep laying creatures down, and they keep getting killed. Eventually he runs out of cantrips and removal and I’m able to win with some Elemental tokens. This went long and it seemed pretty hopless but despite casting twice as many spells as me, he kept being short on gas. Weird game, and I feel pretty lucky to have won it.

R4
BRU Delver
My 3rd Delver deck of the night. This was a great match, we both made some misplays and bad judgement calls but we went the full 3 games and they were all close and grindy. I got lucky in the 3rd, we both had active deathrites and low life totals. The final turns I need him to not blind flip a delver and then I need to draw something relevant (pretty much any spell would do it). He doesn’t and I do so I get there.


Some overall thoughts on Delver match ups. Gurmag and TNN can be a pain, but they need time to get them online and sometimes have to dig for them. Even then if you have a board presence they aren’t unbeatable at all. Delver is more of an issue as it comes down fast and is evasive, not that you don’t have tools to better beat it.

Despite having way fewer cantrips, you don’t often feel that far behind in games. You are essentially trading cantrips for threats in the build, and Flashback and Aftermath help give you virtual card advantage. The more time they spend digging while you are actually connecting with threats can be huge.

I never drew the one of Claim to Fame on the night but it would have been excellent at pretty much any time. I’m thinking of cutting a Kiln for a second one. Just another way to pack in extra value into the deck to better keep the gas flowing. Often you just need spells to pump your team, it doesn’t really mater what those spells are doing, a case could be made for a Sylvan Library or some other draw spell as well.

I’m pretty meh on a few cards in the board. I like Dreadbore and want a second one. Golgari charm is too situational. It’s not something you can ever fire off with a Pyro in play, and other than vs true name I feel Pyrokinesis covers a lot of that ground.

Not sure what my best non Pyroblast TNN solution is, but I’d like to have something else for if it actually resolves. I think in a lot of these delver and midrange matches I want to cut back on Discard for the sideboarded games, an I’d rather have reactive answers to threats. However the one exception to that is TNN.

Deck is still a blast to play, it might fundamentally be weaker strategically than delver decks, but it is more beat downy, almost like a disruptive zoo deck and I love that style of game play so I’ll keep jamming and tweaking till I get bored of it.

[MDHackbert]

@ReAnimator, Is your deck still the same as the front page?

[mgrinshpon]

If anyone is still considering Night's Whisper, Abbot of Keral Keep is a 2/1 Prowess creature for 1R that can give you +1 card when you need to refill, though it's realistically a 3+ mana card unless you run Baubles, which would push you towards Goyf. Food for thought.

[ReAnimator]

@ReAnimator, Is your deck still the same as the front page?

Yes it is though i'm thinking about cutting 1 Kiln Fiend for a second Claim to Fame.
The sideboard can shift around a lot. I want a second Dreadbore, and the Golgari Charms have been awkward for me, so i cut them.


If anyone is still considering Night's Whisper, Abbot of Keral Keep is a 2/1 Prowess creature for 1R that can give you +1 card when you need to refill, though it's realistically a 3+ mana card unless you run Baubles, which would push you towards Goyf. Food for thought.

Abbot being a realistic 3 drop is pretty rough, but i've certainly thought about him. I think he's just a bit too clunky and unreliable in here. Also he's mostly just worse in combat than your 1 drops which isn't really where you want to be.

I think Ultimately there is no right answer for the Kiln Fiend slots. I think an argument could be made for just about anything, Goyf, Confidant, Abbot, Eidolon of the Great Revel, some other 1 drop to get even lower to the ground (Blistercoil Weird being the most on theme) it really depends what you are expecting and what you want to be strong against. I like Kiln cause it is very very relevant as a speed difference vs Combo decks. But if you are facing a ton of fair decks with minimal graveyard hate, then Goyf is going to be pretty good.