The Team Pro Tour will feature LEGACY!

[Julian23]

WotC just announced their new PT schedule. Not only are they bringing back the Modern Pro Tour, they have also brought back the Team Pro Tour, which will feature Standard, Modern and Legacy!:


The format for Pro Tour 25th Anniversary is Trios Constructed, meaning each player on a registered trio will compete with a legal Standard, Modern, and Legacy deck for this event.

Edit: removed the part about Team Constructed PTQs at Team Constructed GPs; WotC just announced the Sunday PTQs at Team Constructed GPs will be Team Limited instead of Team Constructed (=T2+Modern+Legacy).

Source: http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/organized-play/2018s-pro-tours-and-2017s-worlds-2017-07-19

[Lord_Mcdonalds]

Exciting but nervous, I've been of the opinion legacy has been allowed to exist as it has because it isn't a pro tour (how modern was handled when it was a PT format affirmed that a bit) but I'm always interested to see how the pros break a format so we'll see.

Admittedly this is a one-off event (I imagine) so they'll likely do nothing.

[supremePINEAPPLE]

This format is great when SCG covers it so it would be cool if it was a once a year thing. Looking forward to Rich Hagon and Brian David Marshall trying to commentate on it.

[Noctalor]

PTQs qualifying you to this PT are standard unified.

https://qph.ec.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-7c6148068e8b37e4818dbbb90c816398

[PirateKing]

Now I just need to find two saps willing to play Standard and Modern :tongue:

[H]

This format is great when SCG covers it so it would be cool if it was a once a year thing. Looking forward to Rich Hagon and Brian David Marshall trying to commentate on it.

It's going to be a train wreck...of their usual commentators, I think LSV is the only person they have that could even be passable. Even when Cedric and Patrick did Legacy on almost a weekly basis, there were plenty of head-scratch, eye squint educing comments made.

I guess we do know now why Top was really banned though.

[rufus]

PTQs qualifying you to this PT are standard unified....

One more metagame for people to care about and for R&D to manage.

[Julian23]

PTQs qualifying you to this PT are standard unified.

I don't know where to start since this comment seems to be based on a misunderstanding how to qualify. For Legacy players there's two ways:


Top 4 Team Constructed GP.
Assuming the "Special Team Format" announced for certain RPTQs will likely feature Legacy, you can also qualify through that. As a bonus, you don't even need to qualify for that RPTQ through a PPTQ as long as someone Q'ed for the RPTQ (likely your Standard guy) invites you onto his Team Constructed Team.

[H]

Assuming the "Special Team Format" announced for certain RPTQs will likely feature Legacy, you can also qualify through that. As a bonus, you don't even need to qualify for that RPTQ through a PPTQ as long as someone Q'ed for the RPTQ (likely your Standard guy) invites you onto his Team Constructed Team.


So, in an Team RPTQ, only one person needs to be Q'ed and the other 2 are allowed to participate qualified or not?

[Julian23]

Correct. The only people who can't be selected are people already qualified for the Pro Tour.

[H]

Correct. The only people who can't be selected are people already qualified for the Pro Tour.

Hmm, that's pretty neat, not that it would ever apply to me...

I guess the alternative proposition is far too constricting, because it would almost certainly end up forcing someone into a format they probably didn't want to play.

[Noctalor]

I don't know where to start since this comment seems to be based on a misunderstanding how to qualify. For Legacy players there's two ways:


Top 4 Team Constructed GP.
Assuming the "Special Team Format" announced for certain RPTQs will likely feature Legacy, you can also qualify through that. As a bonus, you don't even need to qualify for that RPTQ through a PPTQ as long as someone Q'ed for the RPTQ (likely your Standard guy) invites you onto his Team Constructed Team.


As far as i know the special team format announced for RPTQs is Standard Team Unified, a friend of mine told me that and I assumed it is true (I mean, he is an L2)

[Minniehajj]

As far as i know the special team format announced for RPTQs is Standard Team Unified, a friend of mine told me that and I assumed it is true (I mean, he is an L2)

This is untrue. There are RPTQs already announced, which are Team Unified Standard, and there are Team events that are unannounced that are a special format. These COULD for sure be Legacy or the same format as the PT, we don't know and no information has come forth regarding this. Your friend is referring to the fact that the RPTQs that feed into the 25th Anniversary PT are Team Unified Standard, but these RPTQs are not the only way to qualify for this 25th Anniversary PT.

[Finn]

It's going to be a train wreck...of their usual commentators, I think LSV is the only person they have that could even be passable. Even when Cedric and Patrick did Legacy on almost a weekly basis, there were plenty of head-scratch, eye squint educing comments made.

I guess we do know now why Top was really banned though.

Those guys did bad the first couple of years. This is true. But they got a lot better. Still the sentiment of your post is sound. It's going to be a tough gig. They really need a third guy in the booth plucked from the community to chime in on the details. Who's equal to this challenge here?

[Megadeus]

Those guys did bad the first couple of years. This is true. But they got a lot better. Still the sentiment of your post is sound. It's going to be a tough gig. They really need a third guy in the booth plucked from the community to chime in on the details. Who's equal to this challenge here?

I enjoy commentary. Doing TuskVision was super fun. That's the one thing of streaming that I miss.

[H]

Those guys did bad the first couple of years. This is true. But they got a lot better. Still the sentiment of your post is sound. It's going to be a tough gig. They really need a third guy in the booth plucked from the community to chime in on the details. Who's equal to this challenge here?

Yeah, don't get me wrong, I always enjoyed Cedric and Patrick's commentary, but Legacy is a pretty wide format and so even "experienced" commentators can sometimes have issues.

LSV is perceptive enough to be able to commentate on nearly any format though, so he is the best bet they have. That is, if he isn't playing.

Having a "Legacy expert" on hand is probably the best idea, but with the Team format being only 1/3 Legacy, them bringing in someone strictly for that is pretty remote.

[FourDogsinaHorseSuit]

Now I just need to find two saps willing to play Standard and Modern :tongue:

I read it as all players play all three. Which is too bad for any team that'd have me since I'd have a legacy deck, a modern deck, and 60 of my favorite basic lands.

[Barook]

Pretty cool. Now I wish WotC would print functional different duals that don't conflict with the Reserve List (e.g. Commander-related duals).

SCG jacking up the price for Revised USea just before the announcement is a major concern. According to them, it was because they couldn't keep the duals in stock, so they rose the buy/sell price. Whatever is true, somebody seems to play the market with knowledge about the PT prior to the announcement.

[thecrav]

I'm really excited about selling out of Legacy staples a week before the PT and buying a fucking house.

[phg22]

Maybe the commentators could just do their homework? They clearly didn't for GP Vegas, with Chapin talking about Baral and shit like we were about to watch modern storm. I can forgive them for missing things because they never play the format to an extent. But they have to do better than clearly having done actual zero format preparation.

[Barook]

I'm really excited about selling out of Legacy staples a week before the PT and buying a fucking house.
Realistically, how much would demand increase? Only a third of the players are going to play Legacy. And anybody worth their salt playing the format should already have a deck.

[QQQ]

Realistically, how much would demand increase? Only a third of the players are going to play Legacy. And anybody worth their salt playing the format should already have a deck.

It could only be relevant for the qualifiers. Anyone playing on the tour will have zero problems with availability. On the minute chance they lack cards they need, I have zero doubt that they don't either know someone who does, or more likely, would get a store to sponsor them. And that's for nobodies. Tour regulars never have to pay for cards.

[Whitefaces]

Who's equal to this challenge here?

Julian doing commentary would be amazing.

[Julian23]

Maybe the commentators could just do their homework?

I can't speak for the commentators at GP Vegas, but there are some who really put in a lot of work to familiarize themselves with the format. Won't call any names but I've had commentators contact me for information about the state of the meta before. Ended up sending them a 4-5 page overview of what was going on in the format at the time, and their preparation clearly showed during their actual commentary at the GP. Not all of them are going in blind and trying to wing it with just charisma.

[supremePINEAPPLE]

Without actual experience in the format it's just so easy to get things incorrect even if they prepped as well as possible. I don't know what the solution is outside of bringing in someone who actually plays it and the pool of people that do play while also being someone WotC would consider allowing to do commentary can't be large.

[morgan_coke]

Pretty cool. Now I wish WotC would print functional different duals that don't conflict with the Reserve List (e.g. Commander-related duals).

SCG jacking up the price for Revised USea just before the announcement is a major concern. According to them, it was because they couldn't keep the duals in stock, so they rose the buy/sell price. Whatever is true, somebody seems to play the market with knowledge about the PT prior to the announcement.

Was the fact that WotC was giving godbooks of new sets to pro's well ahead of time not enough of a clue that they've ALWAYS had their hand on the scale?

[Barook]

Was the fact that WotC was giving godbooks of new sets to pro's well ahead of time not enough of a clue that they've ALWAYS had their hand on the scale?
One would think they would have learned from it. But it seems they'll always be nepotistic little shits. It's company culture.

[walked]

Pretty cool. Now I wish WotC would print functional different duals that don't conflict with the Reserve List (e.g. Commander-related duals).



The best solution I've seen to this is to print Legendar, Snow Duals of each type.
Legendary = functionally and objectively worse

It would reduce demand on duals notably, without violating the spirit of the reserve list, and SERIOUSLY lower the barrier to entry.

Seems almost trivially easy here.

[KIP_NZ]

My take away was:


Because this event is about teaming up, we're increasing the number of Team Grand Prix to take place from January 6 until May 27, making them either Team Limited, Team Unified Modern, or Team Constructed—the same format as the Pro Tour—and will qualify all Top 4 finishers from that range of events for Pro Tour 25th Anniversary!


Really hoping that Australia gets a Team Constructed GP so I can find me a Standard and a Modern player and play some Legacy!

[apple713]

The best solution I've seen to this is to print Legendar, Snow Duals of each type.
Legendary = functionally and objectively worse

It would reduce demand on duals notably, without violating the spirit of the reserve list, and SERIOUSLY lower the barrier to entry.

Seems almost trivially easy here.

there are still a TON if cards on the reserve list other than duals that are staples in the format.

A better idea would probably be for them to abolish the reserve list BUT announce it very far into the future like 5 years or something. That would give people with existing reserve list cards ample time to unload them. Its not likely they'll take much of a dip until a year out or something either. Even then, it would depend heavily on how they reprinted them. If wizards actually did it smartly, they could reprint cards sparsely to keep demand up. Demand for older cards will still always exist because so many of the newer cards have shitty shitty art.

A solution like this would provide significant longevity for the game. Without it, the game will always be bifurcated.

[Crimhead]

Exciting but nervous, I've been of the opinion legacy has been allowed to exist as it has because it isn't a pro tour (how modern was handled when it was a PT format affirmed that a bit)...

This is my concern as well. Fingers crossed.


The best solution I've seen to this is to print Legendar, Snow Duals of each type.
Legendary = functionally and objectively worse

You would think that were self-evident, but according to the letter of the reprint policy supertypes do not affect functional identity for some reason.


there are still a TON if cards on the reserve list other than duals that are staples in the format.
I'm all for getting rid of (or shortening) the RL, but virtual (non-functional) reprints is a nice compromise. Of course they can't do this with stuff like LED, Cradle, etc, because (unlike duals) access to copies 5-8 might actually cause problems.

Still, if WotC could solve the dual lands issue it would go along way (not everyone wants to play Burn, Fish, Affinity, D&T, or Manaless Dredge). Substitute duals (with no drawback in Legacy) could work wonders as far as format interest is concerned. I would anticipate explosive growth.

[walked]

This is my concern as well. Fingers crossed.
You would think that were self-evident, but according to the letter of the reprint policy supertypes do not affect functional identity for some reason.


That's silly and annoying. Darn.

Then maybe something like a revolt dual or life loss dual.

"~ ETB tapped unless you lost life this turn" or "~ ETB tapped unless a permanent left the battlefield this turn".

Still objectively worse, but would give a close enough approximation in a lot of situations [fetching obviously] that it would at least give many players a reasonable entry point.

But really, neither that nor the RL going anywhere is going to happen. Hopefully the Team Trio format will take off and at least give Legacy a regular competitive place with a reasonable demand mitigation (only 1/3 of players need RL cards).

[Finn]

The type line of the card might make that sample hard to implement anyway.

Legendary Snow Land - Island Forest

Edit: I advocate something more elegant though.

----
Land - Mountain Swamp Forest

When {this} enters the battlefield, discard a card unless you have Threshold.
----

----
Land - Plains Island

This card is white and blue. When {this} enters the battlefield, reveal your hand.
----


Or whatever. Make the cards situationally better or worse than a straight up dual land. That way we will want to play with maybe one or two of these new cards per deck, taking some of the weight off of duals. There is plenty of room to explore for this type of thing.

[Crimhead]

"~ ETB tapped unless you lost life this turn" or "~ ETB tapped unless a permanent left the battlefield this turn".


We don't need sub-par budget duals. We need duals.

eg, CIPT if:

- You have >30 life
- You have > 60 cards in your library
- etc.

It's requires only the will to do so.

[Gheizen64]

A pyroblastable island? PogChamp

A fetchable discard land would also be way too good.

But yeah there are a lot of designs they could explore. A land that say "you can't play more than 1 spell this turn" or "exile a random card from your graveyard as this ETB"

[screallix]

Anders "alakazimdk (https://www.twitch.tv/alakazimdk)" Thiesen replied and summarized to the Team Constructed Legacy ProTour at: https://snapcardster.com/blog/re-legacy-at-the-pt/

Good read.

[Hanni]

A pyroblastable island? PogChamp

A fetchable discard land would also be way too good.

But yeah there are a lot of designs they could explore. A land that say "you can't play more than 1 spell this turn" or "exile a random card from your graveyard as this ETB"

I agree on the discard land being OP. Turn 1 fetch, discard land, Reanimate is way too easy to assemble. Although, I could certainly see them printing a land like that anyway.

[TracerBullet]

I can't speak for the commentators at GP Vegas, but there are some who really put in a lot of work to familiarize themselves with the format. Won't call any names but I've had commentators contact me for information about the state of the meta before. Ended up sending them a 4-5 page overview of what was going on in the format at the time, and their preparation clearly showed during their actual commentary at the GP. Not all of them are going in blind and trying to wing it with just charisma.

The thing is, even with a significant amount of prep (assuming they had *pored* over the background research you sent), there's still simply too much detail in any given game of competitive Legacy to be up to speed on the format without significant game-situation reps. The staggering number of decisions made by players in even a relatively simple match makes it tough on announcers who really don't play the format. Now imagine unfamiliar announcers trying to interpret a Lands' player's decision when he decides whether he wants to cast Gamble or hold mana open for Crop Rotation. It's simply too much to ever research going into an event. You really do have to play the format to understand the different decisions a player is forced to make, and then to convey those decisions to an audience who is mostly comprised of people who do play the format...

[MaximumC]

The type line of the card might make that sample hard to implement anyway.

Legendary Snow Land - Island Forest

Edit: I advocate something more elegant though.

----
Land - Mountain Swamp Forest

When {this} enters the battlefield, discard a card unless you have Threshold.
----

----
Land - Plains Island

This card is white and blue. When {this} enters the battlefield, reveal your hand.
----


Or whatever. Make the cards situationally better or worse than a straight up dual land. That way we will want to play with maybe one or two of these new cards per deck, taking some of the weight off of duals. There is plenty of room to explore for this type of thing.

Man after my own heart. Ive been ringing this bell for YEARS.

[Munchyman]

I just want a Land like this.

Lengendary Land - Mountain, Forest, Swamp, Plains, Island, Waste

Can only have one copy of called " " in you're deck when you start the game.

Tap: add one mana if any color
Tap: add one colorless mana

[ronco]

A better idea would probably be for them to abolish the reserve list BUT announce it very far into the future like 5 years or something. That would give people with existing reserve list cards ample time to unload them. Its not likely they'll take much of a dip until a year out or something either.

I think this would still drop prices right after announcement, or in the very least make them much more volatile in the mean time.

If they take a dip a year out, Why not sell a year and half out instead to sell before the dip? Others may think the same so now the dip is 1.5 years out, so instead people sell 2 years out, and so on until the dip is the day after announcement. So I think most of the dip happens right away with some up and down in between the announcement and removal from RL.

Of course, they may just reprint them as uber mythic rares in which case the price won't drop at all and may even go up due to increased demand in the newer formats.

[Soldier of Fortune]

Looks like all four Legacy Grand Prix's in 2018 (Seattle, Birmingham, Richmond, Shizuoka) will have Legacy PTQ's on Sunday's. I'm glad WOTC decided to go this route. The more high end competitive events, the better!

Day 1 is going to 8 rounds with 6-2 making the cut. Day two will be 7 rounds now.

[DarthVicious]

The type line of the card might make that sample hard to implement anyway.

Legendary Snow Land - Island Forest

Edit: I advocate something more elegant though.

----
Land - Mountain Swamp Forest

When {this} enters the battlefield, discard a card unless you have Threshold.
---

----
Land - Plains Island

This card is white and blue. When {this} enters the battlefield, reveal your hand.
----


Or whatever. Make the cards situationally better or worse than a straight up dual land. That way we will want to play with maybe one or two of these new cards per deck, taking some of the weight off of duals. There is plenty of room to explore for this type of thing.


I agree on the discard land being OP. Turn 1 fetch, discard land, Reanimate is way too easy to assemble. Although, I could certainly see them printing a land like that anyway.

Land - Island Mountain
Enters tapped unless you exile a blue or red card from your hand.

Or gone another way-

Land - Plains Forest
Enters tapped unless an opponent controls more land than you.

I also like the colored lands. Plays along the same vein as Devoid with colored Mana costs.