[SCD] Bontu's Last Reckoning

[EpicLevelCommoner]

Bontu's Last Reckoning

Bontu's Last Reckoning (1BB)
Sorcery
Destroy all creatures. Lands don't untap during your next untap step.

Honestly, I feel like this card is a sleeper sweeper (heh), especially in Legacy where it's back effect can be mitigated via Force of Will and other alternative cost spells, and its much more accomodatable converted mana cost is welcome against explosive aggro-combo like Empty the Warrens, Elves!, etc.

Thoughts?

[Nicklas]

It seems worse than Toxic Deluge in most cases to me.

[raudo]

Picked up some foils just in case when they are cheap. Might be better against Tarmogoyf decks than Deluge.

[Fox]

It seems worse than Toxic Deluge in most cases to me.

The difference is you suffer no negative side effects if Reckoning is countered. The double black is the biggest question mark. The main fringe scenarios would be Toxic's ability to kill an indestructible creature and ability to set wrath points (mainly something like Lilly Last Hope +1, Toxic for x=1, and your own DRS lives while their DRS dies).

[ESG]

Damnation is a much closer comparison, and Damnation sees almost no play in this format. Toxic Deluge has largely supplanted Damnation and Pernicious Deed because it takes care of most of the cards they used to handle. If more creatures with large toughness are printed in the future, then maybe Bontu's Last Reckoning will have a role, but it would still be competing with Damnation for that spot.

[TracerBullet]

The difference is you suffer no negative side effects if Reckoning is countered. The double black is the biggest question mark. The main fringe scenarios would be Toxic's ability to kill an indestructible creature and ability to set wrath points (mainly something like Lilly Last Hope +1, Toxic for x=1, and your own DRS lives while their DRS dies).

... The lifeloss isn't the only difference. Taking a turn to untap *is* the biggest difference. The current legacy format doesn't allow you to take a turn off just to cost wrath for 1 mana less.

[Poron]

... The lifeloss isn't the only difference. Taking a turn to untap *is* the biggest difference. The current legacy format doesn't allow you to take a turn off just to cost wrath for 1 mana less.

Life is not so important compared to the tempo loss.
That's why Channel.deck would be tier 0 in every possible meta

Damnatiom = Toxic Deluge (situational hierarchy between these two) > Bontu's LR

[Fox]

... The lifeloss isn't the only difference. Taking a turn to untap *is* the biggest difference. The current legacy format doesn't allow you to take a turn off just to cost wrath for 1 mana less.

I stipulated that the wrath spell is being countered, in which case you untap as normal. If it resolves that's great, and degrees of magnitude more likely to resolve vs Daze than Damnation. Quite a few decks that run Toxic play hellbent magic; any deck that fires off hellbent cantrips effectively exerted 1 land per cantrip fired from previous turn. Such decks also have a high predisposition towards running PWs, if that PW is LotV they probably have to blindly mill off the top the next turn, otherwise the PW is still generating value unopposed.

[TsumiBand]

I'm not a fan. Sending all your lands to the tapped zone for a whole turn is going to be such a big tempo punch that by the time it's worth it, you're past the need for a 3-mana board wipe and could just pay for good ol' Damnation. I agree that Toxic Deluge is just usually the better board wipe.

[MaximumC]

I think people are selling this card short and I agree with the OP - this card is Legacy viable.

It competes with Toxic Deluge, Pernicious Deed, and Damnation. However, it has differences that make it situationally better / worse than all of those, some of which you guys have already mentioned. It doesn't cost life like Deluge, which can be a huge deal against, say, Eldrazi, and is less of a blowout if countered. It costs less than Deed and Damnation, and that's a pretty big deal when you're talking about a card that can be cast off of a Dark Ritual.

Is it a tempo loss? Sure. But, that tempo loss is relative and flexible, and it comes with the benefit of sweeping the board. You won't cast this to remove a single threat unless you absolutely must, and so you're looking to get 2-for-1 or better off of the card. So, even if you do lose tempo, you also gained CA. And, the more you removed (looking at you, Elves and Merfolk) the better a trade it is.

Like I said, tempo is flexible. Consider:

Turn 1 Deluge off of Dark Ritual = You can't untap ONE land next turn.
Turn 2 Deluge off of (Mox Opal? Ritual?) = You can't untap TWO lands next turn.
Turn 3 Deluge (off land) = You can't untap THREE lands next turn.
Turns 4+ = You're down the three lands you used next turn.

In other words, the tempo loss is at its zenith if you play this normally on turn 3, and drops off rapidly in either direction after that. Now, I completely agree that turn 3 is probably the turn when you're most likely going to want to fire this off. But, as a late game card or an early game answer, the drawback is less.

Also, consider what your deck wants to be doing. If you're in an aggressive or tempo deck, then the tempo loss is pretty bad. But, what if you're in a control shell that just wants to drag things out?

Basically, this card is absolutely playable. Whether it actually sees play depends on whether:

1) The metagame is likely to produce lots of decks that quickly flood the board (Elves, Eldrazi, Merfolk);
2) Your deck is not a tempo deck; and
3) Your deck plays Dark Rituals.

I think the more that these three things are true, the better Reckoning gets compared to similar cards.

[thecrav]

Basically, this card is absolutely playable. Whether it actually sees play depends on whether:

1) The metagame is likely to produce lots of decks that quickly flood the board (Elves, Eldrazi, Merfolk);
2) Your deck is not a tempo deck; and
3) Your deck plays Dark Rituals.

I think the more that these three things are true, the better Reckoning gets compared to similar cards.

What decks are those?

I'm seeing:

Storm - Would probably rather just kill you by the time it can cast this.
Some Reanimator decks - The game is probably over by the time you can cast this.
Pox - Shouldn't be letting enough creatures hit the board for a sweeper to be good.

[CptHaddock]

What decks are those?

I'm seeing:

Storm - Would probably rather just kill you by the time it can cast this.
Some Reanimator decks - The game is probably over by the time you can cast this.
Pox - Shouldn't be letting enough creatures hit the board for a sweeper to be good.

Probably one of the nonblue midrangey decks i.e. Junk, DGA, 4c Loam.

[rubblekill]

I think people are selling this card short and I agree with the OP - this card is Legacy viable.

It competes with Toxic Deluge, Pernicious Deed, and Damnation. However, it has differences that make it situationally better / worse than all of those, some of which you guys have already mentioned. It doesn't cost life like Deluge, which can be a huge deal against, say, Eldrazi, and is less of a blowout if countered. It costs less than Deed and Damnation, and that's a pretty big deal when you're talking about a card that can be cast off of a Dark Ritual.

Is it a tempo loss? Sure. But, that tempo loss is relative and flexible, and it comes with the benefit of sweeping the board. You won't cast this to remove a single threat unless you absolutely must, and so you're looking to get 2-for-1 or better off of the card. So, even if you do lose tempo, you also gained CA. And, the more you removed (looking at you, Elves and Merfolk) the better a trade it is.

Like I said, tempo is flexible. Consider:

Turn 1 Deluge off of Dark Ritual = You can't untap ONE land next turn.
Turn 2 Deluge off of (Mox Opal? Ritual?) = You can't untap TWO lands next turn.
Turn 3 Deluge (off land) = You can't untap THREE lands next turn.
Turns 4+ = You're down the three lands you used next turn.

In other words, the tempo loss is at its zenith if you play this normally on turn 3, and drops off rapidly in either direction after that. Now, I completely agree that turn 3 is probably the turn when you're most likely going to want to fire this off. But, as a late game card or an early game answer, the drawback is less.

Also, consider what your deck wants to be doing. If you're in an aggressive or tempo deck, then the tempo loss is pretty bad. But, what if you're in a control shell that just wants to drag things out?

Basically, this card is absolutely playable. Whether it actually sees play depends on whether:

1) The metagame is likely to produce lots of decks that quickly flood the board (Elves, Eldrazi, Merfolk);
2) Your deck is not a tempo deck; and
3) Your deck plays Dark Rituals.

I think the more that these three things are true, the better Reckoning gets compared to similar cards.

To add to this, if you're playing a deck that drags things out you can't play a lot of deluges, because the life total is going to be probably under some stress already. BLR acts like an additional wrath after toxic deluges in my opinion, whereas on average deluge is going to do the job more efficiently, but there are so many deluges a deck can play safely.
Since a lot of creature decks in legacy play tarmogoyf or gurmag angler, who is played even more than goyf right now because grixis delver is arguably the best deck in the format, BLR seems like a nice card to have to wrath the board without having to pay 5+ life.
BLR has an actual downside only if the opponent has a follow up, which is not always the case. In my opinion a deck cannot play more than a certain number of either TD or BLR: the first one taxes the life total too much, and therefore redundant copies of it can become dead cards pretty fast; the second one acts like an emergency button that can get rid of big monsters in a pinch, but too many copies of BLR and the deck becomes way too clunky.
My opinion is that before playing the second copy of either card I'd rather play the first copy of the other one: they both are very powerful and have different type of drawbacks that don't overlap. And they both answer TNN for 3 mana. That's my 2c.


Probably one of the nonblue midrangey decks i.e. Junk, DGA, 4c Loam.

Indeed. Infact I'm testing a single copy in a midrangy deck like one of those.

[MaximumC]

Probably one of the nonblue midrangey decks i.e. Junk, DGA, 4c Loam.

Yeah, either that, or some kind of Dimir or Esper control deck that wants to grind out the opponent. It's not a competitive deck right now, but something like Mesmeric Orb / Unravel Sanity Mill, where you just want to twiddle your thumbs while you grind them out, is the perfect kind of deck.

My point is not that this card is well suited for today's meta, but it is the kind of card that I can absolutely see fitting a particular need that is powerful enough for Legacy in future metas.