[Primer] Maverick 2.0 - GW/x

[Fatal]

To Grasping Dunes: I tested barbarian ring which was much better with recursion since it deals two dmg and not only to a creature, but still Maverick is not aggro Loam sacrificing land in early turn is cause of lose mostly. So I still disagree.

would you play card:
1
As additional cost skip you land play.
Put -1/-1 counter on target creature.

Answer probably no, KotR argument is invalid since not too many threads has X/1 and is more dangerous then active KotR which mean KotR other targets will have higher value.

Hierarch dies to all -1/-1 effects which is hugh difference. Face golgari charm or Zealous Persecution and you will fast back to Shamans. Thanks to TNN all fair decks run some -1/-1 or mass removal effects.

About bolt on Tracker which took bolt instead KotR - today control decks(miracles 4c Control) mostly can't be overload by threads which cost 3 Mana, since they removal mostly cost 1(I hate you fatal push!), so they can easy digging for another one or equvalant in sort of Snapcasters or k.command which will be CA. So you need more bullet proof threads (like KotR which mostly be bigger then 3/3) or threads which are cheaper or threads which bring instant advantage. Tracker is good but the advantage require a lot of Mana which mean you will be tempo out in early turn if you want to gain that advantage. Much better value creature is Renegade Railler if you want instant value but it's conditional.

SFM argument, if you draw all your equips first - s...t happens - it's still a random card game, but with two sfm and two equips it is small probability to not gain advantage from any sfm. All in all even in case drawing all equips you will have.. those equips in hand so similar to running only equips. Moreover, equips in multiple is mostly bad opponent will focus to kill all creatures if he can't blow equip.

I think you need to work a lot on basis strategy, which cards and action gives card advantage, and in which conditions. Second thing how to gain virtual advantage using tempo - stress opponent resources so he can't use his card advantage which he takes - many cards in hand but very few resources to cast them out.

[timmyod17]

TimmyOD: would you consider running more than one Leo if the cuts were easy? In a way i feel like this shell might be better than 4CC for Leo as you can protect it with MoR. For a blue deck to find double bolt without their cantrips seems very strong.

Was wondering this myself. It's a really powerful effect but I'm honestly not sure what I would cut for a second copy. I know some people are down on Stoneforge right now, but I like having two in the deck. Perhaps going from 4 Thalia down to 3 is a possibility? I'm already only running 3 Mothers and would be loathe to go down to 2.

Another question is: does the mana really support two copies of Leovold? Having one is reasonable because you draw it so infrequently that usually you get it with GSZ. Having two in the deck means you're far more likely to have one just stuck in your hand because you're playing a deck with basic Plains and Karakas and four copies of Wasteland. Perhaps at that point we cut the basic Plains and play Tundra because it helps cast Leovold. However, I really dislike getting that greedy with the mana base when Delver is the top deck and decks like Miracles are running Blood Moon and/or Back to Basics.

tl;dr: I don't know. Maybe, but probably not.

[Fatal]

Was wondering this myself. It's a really powerful effect but I'm honestly not sure what I would cut for a second copy. I know some people are down on Stoneforge right now, but I like having two in the deck. Perhaps going from 4 Thalia down to 3 is a possibility? I'm already only running 3 Mothers and would be loathe to go down to 2.

Another question is: does the mana really support two copies of Leovold? Having one is reasonable because you draw it so infrequently that usually you get it with GSZ. Having two in the deck means you're far more likely to have one just stuck in your hand because you're playing a deck with basic Plains and Karakas and four copies of Wasteland. Perhaps at that point we cut the basic Plains and play Tundra because it helps cast Leovold. However, I really dislike getting that greedy with the mana base when Delver is the top deck and decks like Miracles are running Blood Moon and/or Back to Basics.

tl;dr: I don't know. Maybe, but probably not.

Tested 2 tropical island and 2 Leovold - was good, 3 is too much, many times you get multiple on hand and there are many situations where your tropical is destroyed and you wait for another fetchland. I don't. recommend tundra as second blue source.
Most time your manabase can handle max 6 duals with 8 fetclands which mean:
2 savannah
1 bayou
1 Scrubland
2 tropical island
4 windswept Heath
4 verdant catacombs
1 forest
1 plains - this land is debatable in Leovold list since if you play it you can't cast leo turn 3 with lands only maybe as you debatable tundra here but you can't find it from verdant catacombs, so you would have made split in fetclands verdant / Marsh flats this would give rare situation that you can't fetch tundra from verdant and can't fetch tropical from marsh. Flats - I lost many games because of it and drop tundra for two tropicals.

4 wasteland
1 Karakas
1 flex slot in functional land
Total 22 lands

1 Dryad arbor

In my opinion mom is good call don't cut thalia it's just too good.

[Rascalyote]

I was tempted to play Leovold myself but I decided to stick with thoughtseize as it doesn't mess up the mana as much and it's a strong early play especially against combo where we have no other interactive turn 1 play and we already have enough permanents that come down past turn 1.

For grindy matchups like pile the copy of Dark Depths gives us a late game threat they can't really contend with so I don't feel like I need to play a card like Leovold. Playing thoughtseize helps trim cards like Thalia or mom as it can some-what perform their functions of protection. Stocking up on 3 drops when there's a lot of delver in the format also doesn't feel safe, that being said I think I might move the second decay to the SB for the Ramunap Excavator as he's sweet and I want to up my creature count a little.

Also I'd never cut basic plains from my list, especially with this much delver. Getting cut off white is a death sentence, so much so that I cut 1 Verdant Catacombs for a Marsh flats so I can have 7 fetches that get a forest/arbor and 5 that get the plains as opposed to 8/4.

[Fatal]

I was tempted to play Leovold myself but I decided to stick with thoughtseize as it doesn't mess up the mana as much and it's a strong early play especially against combo where we have no other interactive turn 1 play and we already have enough permanents that come down past turn 1.

For grindy matchups like pile the copy of Dark Depths gives us a late game threat they can't really contend with so I don't feel like I need to play a card like Leovold. Playing thoughtseize helps trim cards like Thalia or mom as it can some-what perform their functions of protection. Stocking up on 3 drops when there's a lot of delver in the format also doesn't feel safe, that being said I think I might move the second decay to the SB for the Ramunap Excavator as he's sweet and I want to up my creature count a little.

Also I'd never cut basic plains from my list, especially with this much delver. Getting cut off white is a death sentence, so much so that I cut 1 Verdant Catacombs for a Marsh flats so I can have 7 fetches that get a forest/arbor and 5 that get the plains as opposed to 8/4.

In Leovold version removal should be reworked, probably more Abrupt Decays which would balance tempo MU and curve nicely for BUG colors. Basic swamp gets more reason to run.

[Borg]

Reduced Grasping Dunes to 1 copy. It came in handy today against a pesky Strix that was holding back my Knight.

Deck: Maverick (https://deckstats.net/decks/51702/776818-maverick/en) https://deckstats.net/mana/m/w.gif https://deckstats.net/mana/m/g.gif

//Lands
2 Bayou (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Bayou)
1 Cavern of Souls (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Cavern+of+Souls)
1 Forest (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Forest)
1 Grasping Dunes (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Grasping+Dunes)
1 Karakas (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Karakas)
1 Misty Rainforest (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Misty+Rainforest)
1 Plains (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Plains)
4 Savannah (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Savannah)
1 Verdant Catacombs (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Verdant+Catacombs)
4 Wasteland (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Wasteland)
4 Windswept Heath (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Windswept+Heath)
1 Wooded Foothills (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Wooded+Foothills)

//Spells
4 Green Sun's Zenith (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Green+Sun%27s+Zenith)
1 Mirri's Guile (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Mirri%27s+Guile)
1 Sword of Feast and Famine (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Sword+of+Feast+and+Famine)
1 Sword of Fire and Ice (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Sword+of+Fire+and+Ice)
4 Swords to Plowshares (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Swords+to+Plowshares)
1 Umezawa's Jitte (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Umezawa%27s+Jitte)

//Creatures
1 Birds of Paradise (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Birds+of+Paradise)
1 Deathrite Shaman (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Deathrite+Shaman)
1 Dryad Arbor (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Dryad+Arbor)
1 Gaddock Teeg (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Gaddock+Teeg)
4 Knight of the Reliquary (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Knight+of+the+Reliquary)
3 Mother of Runes (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Mother+of+Runes)
2 Noble Hierarch (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Noble+Hierarch)
2 Qasali Pridemage (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Qasali+Pridemage)
1 Ramunap Excavator (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Ramunap+Excavator)
1 Scavenging Ooze (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Scavenging+Ooze)
1 Scryb Ranger (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Scryb+Ranger)
2 Stoneforge Mystic (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Stoneforge+Mystic)
1 Sylvan Safekeeper (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Sylvan+Safekeeper)
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Thalia%2C+Guardian+of+Thraben)
1 Tireless Tracker (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Tireless+Tracker)

//Sideboard
2 Abrupt Decay (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Abrupt+Decay)
1 Bojuka Bog (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Bojuka+Bog)
1 Dark Depths (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Dark+Depths)
2 Deathrite Shaman (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Deathrite+Shaman)
1 Dosan the Falling Leaf (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Dosan+the+Falling+Leaf)
1 Gaddock Teeg (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Gaddock+Teeg)
1 Maze of Ith (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Maze+of+Ith)
2 Qasali Pridemage (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Qasali+Pridemage)
1 Ramunap Excavator (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Ramunap+Excavator)
1 Scavenging Ooze (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Scavenging+Ooze)
1 Thespian's Stage (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Thespian%27s+Stage)
1 Tireless Tracker (https://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Tireless+Tracker)

https://i.hbtronix.de/chart_pie.png Display deck statistics (https://deckstats.net/decks/51702/776818-maverick)

[Cpt-Qc]

Reduced Grasping Dunes to 1 copy. It came in handy today against a pesky Strix that was holding back my Knight.

If your objective is connecting with opponent's face, maybe you should play Rogue's passage instead. Not only does it work through strixes but it also does work against TNN.

Sacrificing a land to get rid of 1 strix feels bad, unless it's a decisive blow of course. But then again, if it is, you probably can pay for Passage.

[lavafrogg]

Is anyone playing straight GW with black just for DRS and sideboard cards?

Looking for a starting point and some discussion.

Namely:

Straight GW seems like it can play DD/Stage easier.

Thoughtsieze seems almost mandatory against the unfair decks in the world.

Zealous Persecution is bonkers.

Finally:

Is ground seal good enough against all of the snapcaster decks in the format right now?

[Cpt-Qc]

Is anyone playing straight GW with black just for DRS and sideboard cards?

Looking for a starting point and some discussion.

Namely:

Straight GW seems like it can play DD/Stage easier.

Thoughtsieze seems almost mandatory against the unfair decks in the world.

Zealous Persecution is bonkers.

Finally:

Is ground seal good enough against all of the snapcaster decks in the format right now?

That's what I'm on (GW main + Black sideboard) and DD/Stage isn't a big problem since I have a lot of GW sources already.

Ground Seal shuts down DRS so unless you want to be playing nobles only, I'd suggest not playing that. DRS is too good not to be used so, unless it gets banned, we should play it.

[lavafrogg]

That's what I'm on (GW main + Black sideboard) and DD/Stage isn't a big problem since I have a lot of GW sources already.

Ground Seal shuts down DRS so unless you want to be playing nobles only, I'd suggest not playing that. DRS is too good not to be used so, unless it gets banned, we should play it.

What are you currently using against the snapcaster decks?

[Cpt-Qc]

It depends on the situation but DRS, Scooze and even Surgical if needed. I wouldn't fixate too much on a single angle of attack with these decks tho because they can still function pretty well without a graveyard. Most of the time they'll let you have RIP or Ground Seal and remove it when they need to use the yard. I guess Seal cantrips at least but the best you can hope for is to slow them down (which isn't in your interest anyway).

You could also use Canonist to limit them to 1 spell per turn but they'll probably remove it like they would any other permanent. Fighting snappy doesn't end well usually... it's better to race or go with your own Card advantage.

[TheMako]

Im sure most of you have seen this by now but...

Damping Sphere :2:
Artifact
If a land is tapped for two or more mana, it produces C instead of any other type and amount.
Each spell a player casts costs :1: more to cast for each other spell that player has cast this turn.


This seems pretty neat. If your running Cradle its a nonbo but looks like an overall pretty great Sideboard card to me.

[lavafrogg]

Storm and eldrazi hate?

Don’t think it helps Maverick much unless your meta is infested.

[Megadeus]

If snap caster is what you want to fight, just main like 2 Ooze and board a third. The card is at least decent in most match ups. I think it's a card that people don't play enough of in Maverick personally

[TheMako]

Sphere seems really good against two, in my opinion,really poor match-ups. Food chain and Elves. Its also good against storm and I actually wouldn't mind testing it against miracles and the mentor decks. Together with Thalia and Teeg they should make for a pretty good gameplan. Im not sure its worth considering vs Sol land decks but only time and playtesting will tell.

As Food Chain, Elves and Storm are quite popular in my area I might try playing two in the Sideboard.

[Schryver]

Ooze is awesome the only thing that sucks is our Swords don't synergize with it. Doesn't matter if youre just trying to shut down Snapcaster though

[Fatal]

Im sure most of you have seen this by now but...

Damping Sphere :2:
Artifact
If a land is tapped for two or more mana, it produces C instead of any other type and amount.
Each spell a player casts costs :1: more to cast for each other spell that player has cast this turn.


This seems pretty neat. If your running Cradle its a nonbo but looks like an overall pretty great Sideboard card to me.

IMO this card is very very strong, and Maverick will have multiple copies in 75 since it doesn't hurt us at all (maybe cradle but it's narrow).

Here are my arguments:
- It tax each second spell like Canonist - so no cantrips mostly unless it's a timewalk after cast.
- it doesn't die to easily like Canonist - for sure Abrade and K.Command will be on rise, so Miracles is a big loser here.
- it tax also a creatures so also Elves
- it stops/slow down Big Eldrazi (almost stop) and small Eldrazi
- it stops Food Chain / Aluren

And all of this in 2 mana artifact.

Analysis based on decks on theSource

which deck can run it hurtless(mostly):
- Death & Taxes
- Maverick
- Deadguy Ale (B/w Confidant)
- Pox
- Vial Goblins
- Aggro Loam (mostly depends on punishing fire..minor)
- The Rock
- Merfolk
- The Gate

Which deck it hurts:
- Turbo Dark Depths (not really) too many 0, 1 spells
- Eldrazi Stompy (lands produce C...)
- Grixis Tempo (cantrips)
- Czech Pile (cantrips, snapcaster)
- UWx Miracles (cantrips, snapacaster)
- Elves ! (Cradle, Glimpse chain)
- Sneak Show (Cantrips, Sol lands, Omni plan)
- UB Tezzeret (Sol lands)
- MUD (Metalworker) (Sol lands)
- Faerie Stompy (Sol lands)
- Mono-Blue Control (MUC) (Cantrips)
- Aluren (Combo)
- Burn (slow down finish)
- Dredge (no big turn, after Breakthrough, just pass..)
- BRx Griselbrand Reanimator (taxing darks, unmask etc - but it is mostly too slow hate with cmc 2)
- Dragon Stompy (sol lands)
- Solitaire (Enchantress) (combo)
- The EPIC Storm (Storm)
- ANT (Storm)
- Food Chain Combo (combo)
- U/G Infect - ( pumps)
- Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh) (Cantrips)
- Team America (BUG Delver) (cantrips)
- UWx Stoneblade (cantrips, snapcasters)
- BUG "Shardless" Control (shardless, cantrips)
- Affinity (it mostly to slow..vs affinity but it hurts)
- High Tide (hate card)
- Spanish Inquisition (Storm Combo)
- Fetchland Tendrils (Storm DDD)
- Big Red (Mono-R Sneak Attack) (Sol lands, Songs)
- Zoo (has too low curve so it taxed same as burn)
- Belcher
- R/G Lands (Loam slowed down in second cycle, same is true for punishing fire but it's minor)
- Jund (BBE and minor punishing fire build)

If I miss some archtype sorry and please add.

As you see unaffected are: Vial tribals, D&T, Maverick and Rock style decks, which mostly has mid-range mana curve and cast 1 spell per turn and removal in opponent turn.

[Dreadnaught33]

IMO this card is very very strong, and Maverick will have multiple copies in 75 since it doesn't hurt us at all (maybe cradle but it's narrow).

Here are my arguments:
- It tax each second spell like Canonist - so no cantrips mostly unless it's a timewalk after cast.
- it doesn't die to easily like Canonist - for sure Abrade and K.Command will be on rise, so Miracles is a big loser here.
- it tax also a creatures so also Elves
- it stops/slow down Big Eldrazi (almost stop) and small Eldrazi
- it stops Food Chain / Aluren

And all of this in 2 mana artifact.

Analysis based on decks on theSource

which deck can run it hurtless(mostly):
- Death & Taxes
- Maverick
- Deadguy Ale (B/w Confidant)
- Pox
- Vial Goblins
- Aggro Loam (mostly depends on punishing fire..minor)
- The Rock
- Merfolk
- The Gate

Which deck it hurts:
- Turbo Dark Depths (not really) too many 0, 1 spells
- Eldrazi Stompy (lands produce C...)
- Grixis Tempo (cantrips)
- Czech Pile (cantrips, snapcaster)
- UWx Miracles (cantrips, snapacaster)
- Elves ! (Cradle, Glimpse chain)
- Sneak Show (Cantrips, Sol lands, Omni plan)
- UB Tezzeret (Sol lands)
- MUD (Metalworker) (Sol lands)
- Faerie Stompy (Sol lands)
- Mono-Blue Control (MUC) (Cantrips)
- Aluren (Combo)
- Burn (slow down finish)
- Dredge (no big turn, after Breakthrough, just pass..)
- BRx Griselbrand Reanimator (taxing darks, unmask etc - but it is mostly too slow hate with cmc 2)
- Dragon Stompy (sol lands)
- Solitaire (Enchantress) (combo)
- The EPIC Storm (Storm)
- ANT (Storm)
- Food Chain Combo (combo)
- U/G Infect - ( pumps)
- Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh) (Cantrips)
- Team America (BUG Delver) (cantrips)
- UWx Stoneblade (cantrips, snapcasters)
- BUG "Shardless" Control (shardless, cantrips)
- Affinity (it mostly to slow..vs affinity but it hurts)
- High Tide (hate card)
- Spanish Inquisition (Storm Combo)
- Fetchland Tendrils (Storm DDD)
- Big Red (Mono-R Sneak Attack) (Sol lands, Songs)
- Zoo (has too low curve so it taxed same as burn)
- Belcher
- R/G Lands (Loam slowed down in second cycle, same is true for punishing fire but it's minor)
- Jund (BBE and minor punishing fire build)

If I miss some archtype sorry and please add.

As you see unaffected are: Vial tribals, D&T, Maverick and Rock style decks, which mostly has mid-range mana curve and cast 1 spell per turn and removal in opponent turn.

What cards do you see us cutting to add this? I'm convinced as you are this will make it, but as always it's tough to know whats best to cut to make it work. It's hard to consider cutting canonist or thalia, but this is harder to remove for sure. Thalia has the added combat benefits though....

[TheMako]

I'm going down to 1 Choke and 1 canonist to make room for two spheres. I've been down on Choke for a whole, games seldom really go on long enough for it to become a big deal, not sure if I'll miss the second copy so it seemed the obvious choice. Sphere and canonist has a similar effect so I figured id try going down to one just to diversify my threats.

[Cpt-Qc]

Not that I want to sound like the cranky guy but I've been on the prelate plan for a while and I only see one matchup in which this is truly better and that is elves. Elves btw who can easily get out of this lock with green sun and 4 mana. Sol lands decks usually can't even compete due to maverick being one of the best wasteland decks and our big girl kotr. Prelate is much better vs all cantrips, snapcaster or combo decks.

You might be saying 3cc is more than 2 and I would respond that, for maverick, they are the same since we have a lot of ramp.

[TheMako]

I think thats fair enough Cpt. Currently my plan is to run all 3 cards once sphere is legal. 2 spheres, 2 prelate and 1 canonist. Might end up being overkill but frankly I think its matchups like these that can warrant siding in 5-10 cards to really sure up your defense.

Caveat - I don't have a ton of experience piloting the deck yet (probably only around 60 hours) so by no means do I have as firm a grasp on matchups as some of the veterans in the thread which may cause me to evaluate cards very differently.

[lavafrogg]

Not that I want to sound like the cranky guy but I've been on the prelate plan for a while and I only see one matchup in which this is truly better and that is elves. Elves btw who can easily get out of this lock with green sun and 4 mana. Sol lands decks usually can't even compete due to maverick being one of the best wasteland decks and our big girl kotr. Prelate is much better vs all cantrips, snapcaster or combo decks.

You might be saying 3cc is more than 2 and I would respond that, for maverick, they are the same since we have a lot of ramp.

Do you have a list you don't mind sharing?

[menloe]

IMO this card is very very strong, and Maverick will have multiple copies in 75 since it doesn't hurt us at all (maybe cradle but it's narrow).

I've been looking for a reason to go back to an E-Tutor sideboard plan.

[soybars]

Do you have a list you don't mind sharing?

second that request, QC.

i am having a crisis of faith over maverick right now because i am too stupid to play the deck proficiently. (this is jake from ck twitch)

it is easily my favorite deck in the format, but i really need to do some personal work on punts

last night, after maneuvering to get jitte counters against a DNT deck w/ mirran crusader out, i finally pass w two counters on jitte. my opponent casts council's judgement and i go "well, better use these counters. gain 4 life?" - i was utterly convinced, in that moment, that MC had protection from my equipped DRS -____-

taking an extra second would have been crucial, but i had already said it.

mind numbingly bad decision-making that has less to do w/ the actual deck and more to do w how i conduct myself in a match and remembering how cards work.

i'm only coming here to excise any demons and write it out so i never forget something stupid like that again.

i love punishing decks but learning maverick has been a bit of a mental ordeal.

[Jesture]

Recently bought into this deck and have a single Gaea's Cradle in the main deck. To those of you advocating for Damping Sphere, are you playing Cradle? If not, is it for budget reasons or do you feel the deck is actually better without it?

[Fatal]

Recently bought into this deck and have a single Gaea's Cradle in the main deck. To those of you advocating for Damping Sphere, are you playing Cradle? If not, is it for budget reasons or do you feel the deck is actually better without it?

Cradle is good if you need it: Batterskull, or more equipments, Sigarda or Titania under GSZ. It's bad in heavy removal meta like Miracles, 4c Control.

I like Dumping Sphere since it's really universal tool, works vs decks which wasn't hated before like 12post.

[Jesture]

Cradle is good if you need it: Batterskull, or more equipments, Sigarda or Titania under GSZ. It's bad in heavy removal meta like Miracles, 4c Control.

I like Dumping Sphere since it's really universal tool, works vs decks which wasn't hated before like 12post.

Cool, thanks for the info. So are you playing Gaea's Cradle?

[Cpt-Qc]

This is the list I'm rolling with atm.

Land (24)
2x Bayou
1x Dark Depths
1x Dryad Arbor
2x Forest
1x Horizon Canopy
1x Karakas
1x Plains
2x Savannah
1x Scrubland
1x Thespian's Stage
3x Verdant Catacombs
4x Wasteland
4x Windswept Heath

Creature (25)
1x Birds of Paradise
4x Deathrite Shaman
1x Gaddock Teeg
4x Knight of the Reliquary
3x Mother of Runes
2x Qasali Pridemage
1x Ramunap Excavator
1x Scavenging Ooze
1x Scryb Ranger
2x Stoneforge Mystic
1x Sylvan Safekeeper
4x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben

Enchantment (1)
1x Sylvan Library

Artifact (2)
1x Sword of Fire and Ice
1x Umezawa's Jitte

Instant (4)
4x Swords to Plowshares

Sorcery (4)
4x Green Sun's Zenith

Sideboard (15)
2x Abrupt Decay
2x Blessed Alliance
1x Choke
2x Sanctum Prelate
2x Surgical Extraction
1x Garruk Relentless
3x Thoughtseize
2x Zealous Persecution


i love punishing decks but learning maverick has been a bit of a mental ordeal.

Maverick has so many activated abilities to mix together that it can be hard to see all the possibilities, and that's why I like it so much. But you need to know which creature to green sun for and what to do with it.
Just take Scryb Ranger for example. Using it to DRS 3x or even 4x a turn can be deadly if you have the mana (2x on your turn, 2x on your opponent's). It makes DRS deal more than griselbrand!

[menloe]

I am enjoying some posts on the ole reddit by lorkac and wondered if they post here.

[Fatal]

Cool, thanks for the info. So are you playing Gaea's Cradle?

Each time when I'm running Skull and/ or Sigarda - yes. Actually I'm not running either my meta looks like Grixis land - Grixis delver, Grixis control and.. 4c Czech Pile, Miracles and some D&T - this meta doesn't seems friendly for Cradle and overcosted bombs. If meta would reshift for more Sneak & Show, Burn, BUG or Eldrazi I would take a shift.

[Cpt-Qc]

Each time when I'm running Skull and/ or Sigarda - yes. Actually I'm not running either my meta looks like Grixis land - Grixis delver, Grixis control and.. 4c Czech Pile, Miracles and some D&T - this meta doesn't seems friendly for Cradle and overcosted bombs. If meta would reshift for more Sneak & Show, Burn, BUG or Eldrazi I would take a shift.

Couldn't say it better. I loved having cradle but you need to have bombs to drop your mana into with sigarda/skull. It's all meta dependant and now is not the best time for those cards.

[Stuart]

Couldn't say it better. I loved having cradle but you need to have bombs to drop your mana into with sigarda/skull. It's all meta dependant and now is not the best time for those cards.

Cradle also makes equipment (tutor/cast + equip on the same turn) and Scooze better, both of which are Maverick staples. FWIW I don't play Cradle and think the deck's fine without it, but it definitely opens some interesting lines of play.

[Cpt-Qc]

Oh for sure there are multiple use: I can't count how many times I've cast SFM + cast sofi + equiped it and swung all on the same turn. Or when I've emptied an opponent's graveyard constantly with scooze activation, not letting them delve anything. Having a big mana dump is just what pushes it over the top.

[lavafrogg]

2-0’d Merfolk in my legacy league yesterday.

I am staying on Maverick for the forseable future.... I can’t handle the mana issues with Aggro Loam.

[menloe]

second that request, QC.

i am having a crisis of faith over maverick right now because i am too stupid to play the deck proficiently. (this is jake from ck twitch)

it is easily my favorite deck in the format, but i really need to do some personal work on punts

last night, after maneuvering to get jitte counters against a DNT deck w/ mirran crusader out, i finally pass w two counters on jitte. my opponent casts council's judgement and i go "well, better use these counters. gain 4 life?" - i was utterly convinced, in that moment, that MC had protection from my equipped DRS -____-

taking an extra second would have been crucial, but i had already said it.

mind numbingly bad decision-making that has less to do w/ the actual deck and more to do w how i conduct myself in a match and remembering how cards work.

i'm only coming here to excise any demons and write it out so i never forget something stupid like that again.

i love punishing decks but learning maverick has been a bit of a mental ordeal.

I've been on the deck in some form or other for two years, have had reasonable success locally, and I still fuck up terrifically from time to time. It's unavoidable even with study and perfect practice. At least you can recognize your mistakes and learn from them.

Don't beat yourself up, mate, and keep playing fair. <3

[Bad Wolf]

Oh for sure there are multiple use: I can't count how many times I've cast SFM + cast sofi + equiped it and swung all on the same turn. Or when I've emptied an opponent's graveyard constantly with scooze activation, not letting them delve anything. Having a big mana dump is just what pushes it over the top.

Wait, you had 7 mana? How many creatures did you have?
I'm usually lucky to have 2 or 3 creatures, I can't imagine being in such a position that Cradle would make more than 3.

[Cpt-Qc]

Wait, you had 7 mana? How many creatures did you have?
I'm usually lucky to have 2 or 3 creatures, I can't imagine being in such a position that Cradle would make more than 3.

4 lands or 3 creatures is all you need for that: kotr + drs in play, cast sfm, activate kotr to get cradle, generate 3 mana (4 mana if you have 1 extra creature and 1 less land) + 2 mana to equip. No one expects the spanish inquisition!

[TMagpie]

If your objective is connecting with opponent's face, maybe you should play Rogue's passage instead. Not only does it work through strixes but it also does work against TNN.

Sacrificing a land to get rid of 1 strix feels bad, unless it's a decisive blow of course. But then again, if it is, you probably can pay for Passage.

Tower of the Magistrate.

Like, not even a joke, I love that card.

[Cpt-Qc]

Although very narrow, it does look like a gem you got there :smile:

[TheMako]

Can vouch for the effectiveness of Tower of the Magistrate. Used to play it a fair bit when D&T was more popular in my area. It does some serious work.

[Fatal]

Question does anyone used Hazoret the Fervent in Punishing Maverick (probably on SB vs non-white decks) ?

[lavafrogg]

I am playing against a 3 color DnT list this week. I think I am the aggro deck and just have to waste him off anything and kill him.

If I win this week I will be able to switch to a better list with a real sideboard!

[TheMako]

Three colour DnT sounds dubious. Wasteland seems like an all-star in the match-up for sure. Let us know how you go.

[lavafrogg]

Three colour DnT sounds dubious. Wasteland seems like an all-star in the match-up for sure. Let us know how you go.

I think the game will hinge on who draws the most (effective) mana disruption. He plays 2 basics which I feel gives me the slight edge as long as he doesn’t go crazy with vial.

[Claymore]

Wouldn't three color DNT just be Vial Maverick?

[Fatal]

Wouldn't three color DNT just be Vial Maverick?

For sure yes, interesting how good it uses vial. From my experience if you run punishing version you can easily steamroll vial Maverick since it doesn't run GSZ so not enough thread density which mostly are X/1 like Scryb ranger wayfarer which are in multiple. Don't try to waste it under active vial on 2 or open two mana. IT also can't find fast answer to remove fired from gy like normally function gsz.

Second strategy is to punish him on greedy Mana base by fast blowing vial with Decay or grudge/Pridemage. It also soft to our equipments since it can't tutor Pridemage.

P.S any of 4 Mavericks which was playing in MKM Rome, are here. Would like to hear a report. Meta looks combo and tempo oriented - good for Maverick, but on the other hand combo was mostly present as Reanimator and S&T which is bad for us.

[lavafrogg]

I am on straight GW and I have a pretty useless sideboard as I waited until the last minute to submit my list.

We play tomorrow and I will Post the results as soon as I can.

[Skizz]

P.S any of 4 Mavericks which was playing in MKM Rome, are here. Would like to hear a report. Meta looks combo and tempo oriented - good for Maverick, but on the other hand combo was mostly present as Reanimator and S&T which is bad for us.

Hi Fatal,
i played at MKM Rome and faced some friends of you. (i like your ideas with P.Fire List!)

i played GWb as usual and wanted to play a solid manabase (so no Blue for Leovold this time)

Mainboard:
2 Forrest
1 Plains
2 Savannah
2 Bayou
1 Scrubland
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Karakas
1 Gaeas Cradle
4 Wasteland
4 Windswept Heath
2 Verdant Catacombs
1 Marsh Flats
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Noble Hierarch
4 Deathrite Shaman
3 Mother of Runes
1 Slyvan Safekeeper
4 Thalia, GoT
2 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Scrybranger
1 Renegade Rallier
1 Ramunap Excavator
4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Green Suns Zenith
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Sylvan Library
1 Umezawas Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice

Sideboard:
1 Pithing Needle
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Containment Priest
1 Sanctum Prelate
1 Abrupt Decay
2 Zealous Persecution
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Choke
1 Diabolic Edict
1 Liliana the last Hope
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Thoughtseize

Trial 3:1
W Abzan-Turbo Depths
L Elves
W Mono-Red-Sneak Attack
W Steel Stompy/Ravager Shops

Mainevent: 5:3 22nd out of 111
1.) Bye
2.) W Death and Taxes (mono white)
3.) W Dragon Stompy
4.) W Dredge
5.) L Miracles (Top8)
6.) L Czech Pile (Top8/Winner)
7.) L Elves
8.) W Grixis Delver

Deck felt strong but could not beat Miracles (Sylvan Safekeeper -> Sword/Snap-Sword and Councils Judgement for my Gaddock Teeg :cry:)
Czech Pile could assemble K.Command-Snapcaster-Strix-Train every game
Elves 2x Hardcast Behemot against turn 2 Teeg.

after round 4 the bad luck begins.. i just wanted to face Lands or even S&T - which are more in my favor than miracles/elves but nope not this time.:rolleyes:

i also would like to know how the other pilots went and which list they played?

[lavafrogg]

Beat BW, not 3 color, Death and Taxes 2-1.

Game 1: I got the early mother into stone forge into active equipment.

Game 2: See game one, but for him.

Game 3: Plains Mom for me, Karakas Mom for him, waste+swords put me ahead and after a few turns of equipment battles he was just never able to draw what he needed to pull ahead.

I loved the straight GW mainboard with DRS as I never had mana problems and was able to be aggressive. Felt very much like a mirror as he was never in a position to take advantage of his splash.

I am 4-2 heading into the last 2 weeks, I might be able to squeeze into the top 8 still.

Edit: I am also super excited because I get to play a real list and sideboard as opposed to a last minute list.

[Yutao]

Ended up playing this list for the first time at a weekly.

Creature (24)
1x Birds of Paradise
3x Deathrite Shaman
1x Gaddock Teeg
4x Knight of the Reliquary
1x Leovold, Emissary of Trest
4x Mother of Runes
1x Noble Hierarch
1x Qasali Pridemage
1x Ramunap Excavator
1x Scavenging Ooze
1x Scryb Ranger
2x Stoneforge Mystic
3x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben

Enchantment (1)
1x Sylvan Library

Land (24)
1x Bayou
1x Dark Depths
1x Dryad Arbor
1x Forest
1x Horizon Canopy
1x Karakas
1x Plains
2x Savannah
1x Scrubland
1x Thespian's Stage
1x Tropical Island
4x Verdant Catacombs
4x Wasteland
4x Windswept Heath

Instant (5)
1x Abrupt Decay
4x Swords to Plowshares

Artifact (2)
1x Sword of Fire and Ice
1x Umezawa's Jitte

Sorcery (4)
4x Green Sun's Zenith

Sideboard (15)
1x Abrupt Decay
2x Choke
1x Elspeth, Knight-Errant
2x Ethersworn Canonist
1x Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
1x Sanctum Prelate
2x Surgical Extraction
3x Thoughtseize
2x Zealous Persecution

Match 1 against Sam on G/W Maverick
Untapped with a Mom and 2x Kotr and eventually getting a jitte into play to just wipe his board. G2 he found triple STP in the top 8 cards of his deck which allowed him to stifle any form of mana development from my end. Eventually he equipped SoFI to a Scryb Ranger to beat me down. G3, Zealous Persecution wiped his Mom and Thalia while my KoTR found enough wastelands to hit all of his green sources.
(1-0) (2-1 in matches)

Match 2 against Tyler on U/W Stoneblade
Game 1, he ends up countering and killing most of my creatures while resolving a JTMS. Jace fateseals my outs away while I end up with close to 7 lands. Game 2, he ends up with 4 mana Gideon and 5 mana Gideon on the field against Knight, Mom, Dryad Arbor, Thalia, and Noble. I eventually find and resolve a SoFI to slap on my Arbor to eliminate both Gideons in one shot. End up going to 6 from Gid beats, but KoTR and SoFI seal the game against him before he could find anything relevant. Game 3, He ends up swordsing my DRS t1, and Snap+Swordsing my DRS t3. Lets me resolve a t3 choke which locked up enough lands for KoTR and Thalia to come down and win.
(2-0)(4-2 in matches)

Match 3 against Jeff on Grixis Delver
Game 1 ends up being a mana denial/who can stick their DRS game. I end up stifling his mana development to the point where I could resolve both KoTR and Leovold to prevent a good majority of his hand. In game 2, I end up on the back foot after his t1 DRS allows him to clear my mana dorks and Thalia. I scoop to the TNN and Delver on board. Game 3, I keep a spectacular hand where I can jam a mana dork t1 (gets bolted), resolve a Sylvan Library t2 (no daze), into double wasteland his two colored mana sources while playing another mana dork t3. Eventually he finds another colored mana source, but not after facing a KoTR, a Mom, and a Thalia. Jitte seals the match.
(3-0)(6-3 in matches)

Match 4 against Josh on Mono Red Stompy
In game 1, he ends up resolving both a Chandra and Koth against a Thalia with a Jitte and a big KoTR. He ends up slamming ensnaring bridge, but I manage to dig with a horizon canopy to try and find a GSZ. End up drawing it just in time to find QPM, which blows up the bridge, and Thalia+KoTR kill both of his Planeswalkers. Game 2, I end up stabilizing at 6 with a large Knight and a Thalia, but he ends up finding a Fiery Confluence off the top. Game 3, I mull to 5, get stuck on one land and die.
(3-1)(7-5 in matches)

Overall, I feel that this deck seems to just have much more game against the field than my previous deck (Nic Fit). I end up boarding out Marit Lage combo in the mirror and against Mono Red which feels correct, but it could be wrong. Also Zealous Persecution is an fantastic card, I would honestly want one more if Grixis Delver is super prevalent. I also think having two 4 mana walkers against control is a bit too much. I never did end up seeing either, but Thalia feels super strong against U/W, which ends up being a nonbo with expensive planeswalkers.

[lavafrogg]

Things.


Grats on the 3-1 and sorry you could't seal the 4-0 against Stompy. Confluence randomly ends games all the time.

Questions: How was the blue mini-splash and Leovold?

How did SFM perform? She i son the chopping block for me at this time...:/

[Yutao]

Grats on the 3-1 and sorry you could't seal the 4-0 against Stompy. Confluence randomly ends games all the time.

Questions: How was the blue mini-splash and Leovold?

How did SFM perform? She i son the chopping block for me at this time...:/

Leo was quite good as a significant hate bear. He ended up netting me a few cards in the mirror and locking the delver player out from playing magic.

SFM was great against U/W stoneblade. being able to grab SoFi against them is prime. Being able to go t1 dork, t2 wasteland + powerful two drop is the dream curve and SFM complements Thalia well. That being said, I feel that two is the correct number. The card is quite a liability against 4c control and almost every deck packs artifact hate in the SB.

[lavafrogg]

I guess SFM is good in the fair matchups... I just am not happy about it.

[Fatal]

Maverick mirrors:
- Side out Thalia - it's not worth. Looks like your opponent didn't know that.

SFM vs today meta:
- it's not great vs Czech Pile since SFM require quite a lot mana investment (2 mana to cast, 2 to put equip, 2 for equip) so it's 6 mana total (big tempo lost) vs 3 mana for K.Command. Best way to deal with it is to force opponent to use it as shock + discard worst card - your luck if you can negate it by punishing fire, so it bacame 3 mana shock. To achive it you must keep in check his graveyard which isn't easy.

[lavafrogg]

If you really want to punish K. Command just run a couple of Wilt-Leaf Leige. Takes most of your dudes out of 2 damage range, can’t be decayed/bolted, loves to be discarded and isn’t an artifact! Only downside is that it can stil be pushed(when revolted)...

[Yutao]

Liege or Smiter might not be a horrible idea. Hymn, LOTV, K-Command get a whole lot worse when you can get a free 4/4.

[lavafrogg]

Probably a good sideboard option if you have a ton of Czech or just K-Command and Lilliana everywhere.

I just did a ton of testing against the miracles deck.... still miserable especially with back to basics.

Additionally, I am switching back from the Depths combo to Gaea’s Cradle + Maze of Ith. I am super not impressed with the combo and love the velocity that cradle and maze give.

I still have 1 flex slot in the main that I don’t know what do do with though...

[Yutao]

Has anyone considered Lingering Souls as a way to outgrind 4c control or miracles?

[Fatal]

I like idea of Wilt-Leaf Liege it should help a lot.

[lavafrogg]

I like idea of Wilt-Leaf Liege it should help a lot.

He is good in all fair matchups as he also helps the general beat down plan of the deck.... and pridemages attacking for 5.

I have 1 flex slot remaining and have no idea what to put in it.... anyone have random 1 of secret tech?

[Fatal]

He is good in all fair matchups as he also helps the general beat down plan of the deck.... and pridemages attacking for 5.

I have 1 flex slot remaining and have no idea what to put in it.... anyone have random 1 of secret tech?
What is your biggest fear, then find card which they can't really beat, and here you have your tech.

[Bjorn The Jesus]

Here’s my report from this weekend, I think it’s the first time I’ve posted in the maverick thread, but it won’t be the last.


Saturday was team trios, I got to be the legacy player on the team, which is good because I don’t play the other two formats. I’m the local nic fit guy, however for the past couple of months I’ve moved to maverick for a bit more consistency and I’ve kinda developed a crush on my girl Knight of the Reliquary. Sadly weather caused the tournament be a bit small, so there were only 13 teams I believe, but enough small talk, here’s the report.


Match 1: Burn
We sit down and my opponent and I chat a bit, real nice guy. Turns out he’s on burn though, and the turn 1 goblin guide against my mulligan to 5 made me think the day might not be so fun. I don’t draw any fetches, just a couple duals and the combination of guides, Swift Spears and a flurry of burn spells makes quick work of game 1. Off t a rough start.


Game 2 I’m on he play and open with shaman, turn 2 shaman + mom, turn 3 Thalia + stoneforge for jitte. Somehow thru all this he gets me to 1 life and I’m sweating, however jitte is a decent magic card and I get there, thanks to some key land draws on his part.


Game 3 is basically a repeat of game 2, he gets me to 1 again, but I stabilize with a jitte’d up Thalia and a deathrite, while he gets unlucky and draws an extra land or 3. Better lucky hsn good I always say, and I’m 1-0, along with my team.


1-0


Match 2: Alex on ANT or why play too many turns of magic.
I’m on the draw game 1, he’s got a semi-slow start in hat I don’t die turn 1. I lead fetch into deathrite, and turn 2 gsz for teeg. Onto game 2.


Game 2 my man mulls to 6 and makes 16 gobbos turn 1, I’m glad I sided in zealous persecution, I’m not glad the top of my deck didn’t have it though.


Game 3 is pretty good, I get a shaman, a Thalia with a sofai, and a Leo in play. I get him to 3 and end of turn he chain of vapors my sword, and also my Thalia, draws abrupt decay, goes off. Thankfully my teammates finished beforehand both winning their matches and we get the victory.


2-0


Match 3: Arturo on 4C Loam, rematch
My lgs has recently got in the streaming game, and a few weeks ago Arty and I played on camera and he made me wish I never played magic. Today was our rematch, the battle of the very fair decks, team no blue.
Game 1 started out with a lot of wastelands, all 3 of his abrupt decays, including one on an excavator that I’m pretty sure would have won the game by itself. Once the dust settled, I had 2 knights and a mom to his scavenging ooze and Liliana of the veil. Ooze does its best to keep the ladies in check, and mom sacrifices her self for the greater good and the big knights kill in 2 big swings.


Game 2 is a perfect example of why mulligans are good. I keep a realllll suspect hand of fetch, arbor, deathrite, mother, stoneforge, swords to plowshares. I lead fetch into scrubland for deathrite which gets bolted off Mox and wasted. I draw a surgical and get his wasteland in the upkeep which also got 2 in his hand, so that’s a win right? No, I don’t draw another land and dryad arbor just can’t compete with a knight and a confidant.


Game 3 goes well, I get out early with multiple deathrites and the first knight. This matchup seems very knight dependent and my shamans keep his knights small, while a series of above average draws end up going the distance. I got my revenge, we played some fun magic, it’s a good day because my teammates are also winning.


3-0


Match 4: Grixis delver
Of course we can’t get thru a tournament without he boogeyman once. I don’t remember game 1 very well, but I’m pretty sure I won.


Game 2 I don’t get as lucky, I stumble, a timely daze is good, and true name is tough.


Game 3 was my favorite of the day. Starts out okay for me, I have a sideboard choke in my hand, trying to figure out a good place to get it down, but can’t get to the 4 mana I needed due to Thalia. I also have a zealous persecution in hand, but no black mana, and my deathrite has no food to cast it, and my opponent has a flipped delver. The turning point of the match is when my opponent plays a true name into a gurmag with 1 card in hand with a deathrite in play as well. I topdeck a bayou, slam the persecution, kill the true name, now all I have to deal with is gurmag and delver. This is where I’m able to land the choke, locking down 4 islands. I have a dryad arbor, Thalia, and deathrite in play, along with a library that I’ve paid some life for, putting me a little low, and a zenith in hand. He swings with the bug and the fish, I block with Thalia, dropping to 11. My plan now is to zenith for scryb ranger, so I can block and return arbor indefinitely to draw out of it, as at this points he has every island in his deck locked down and no lands in graveyards. The magic gods see my plan and just put ranger on top of my deck. I draw and play it, return a forest to untapped arbor and zenith for tracker. This is what’s known as a combo, and he concedes knowing that eventually my tracker will get big enough to abyss him every turn.


My team is 4-0 at this point, we draw last round, and we all decide to split the prizes in the end. Pretty anticlimactic, but it was a good day and I won $80 doing what I enjoy, not playing much blue in legacy.

[Fatal]

Here’s my report from this weekend, I think it’s the first time I’ve posted in the maverick thread, but it won’t be the last.

[...]
My team is 4-0 at this point, we draw last round, and we all decide to split the prizes in the end. Pretty anticlimactic, but it was a good day and I won $80 doing what I enjoy, not playing much blue in legacy.

Good to hear that i works to full report post a list and SB plans on each match (if you can remember how you sided). I'm guessing you played Leo build.

[Bjorn The Jesus]

Good to hear that i works to full report post a list and SB plans on each match (if you can remember how you sided). I'm guessing you played Leo build.

Maverick

Creatures:
4 Deathrite Shaman
3 Mother of Runes
1 Birds of Paradise

4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Scryb Ranger
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Gaddock Teeg

3 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Tireless Tracker
1 Ramunap Excavator
1 Leovold, Emissary of Trest

Instants/Sorceries:
4 Green Sun’s Zenith
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Abrupt Decay

Artifacts/Enchantments:
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Umezawa’s Jitte
1 Sylvan Library

Lands:
2 Forest
1 Plains
2 Savannah
1 Scrubland
1 Bayou
1 Tropical Island
1 Karakas
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Horizon Canopy
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Windswept Heath
4 Wasteland

SIDEBOARD:
2 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Reclamation Sage
3 Thoughtseize
2 Choke
2 Zealous Persecution
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
2 Surgical Extraction

I’m still always changing up my boarding plan, but I’ll try to remember how I did it.

Burn:
In: + 1 Reclamation Sage, 2 Ethersworn Canonist;
Out: - 1 Ramunap Excavator, 1 Tireless Tracker, 1 Sylvan Library
Sage for eidolon mostly, as well as the enchantment that’s name is escaping me, and Canonist just because they’re 2 drops that have the possibility of blocking/forcing only one spell a turn, taking out a few grindy cards.

Storm
In: +2 surgical extraction, 3 thoughtseize,2 Canonist, 1 zealous persecution, 1 bojuka bog;
Out: -4 swords to plowshares, 1 Tireless tracker, 2 abrupt decay, 1 Ramunap Excavator, 1 karakas
I think this is all self explanatory, combo hate in, do nothing/grindy stuff out

4c loam
In: +1 Gideon, ally of zendikar, 2 surgical extraction, 1 bojuka bog;
Out: -2 Thalia, Guardian of thraben, -1 gaddock teeg, -1 qasali pridemage,
Gideon because why not, other stuff for punishing fire/loam, taking out gaddock teeg because he doesn’t do anything and same for pridemage, Thalia because I’m bringing in 3 noncreature spells

Grixis delver
In: +2 Zealous persecution, 2 Choke, 1 elspeth Knight-errant
Out: -2 stoneforge mystic, 1 qasali pridemage, 1 gaddock teeg, 1 umezawa’s jitte
Persecution is my only way to kill TNN, and it’s also decent against elementals. Choke is pretty good against islands, elspeth because I want to live the dream of jumping a huge knight over it all. I take out stoneforge because honestly I’m down on her these days, and kommand just feels bad, pridemage has no targets, I assume he takes out force so teeg only hurts my gsz, and jitte doesn’t do much when tnn is on the other side,

My boarding might be not perfect, but my reasoning makes sense in my head for the most part. I’d definitely enjoy hearing any tips or tricks you all have.

[lavafrogg]

I am 4-2 heading into the last 2 weeks of my legacy league. This is my list for my push to the top 8 as there is still a chance that I could make it... most likely I will win out and take 9th...

Land (24)
1x Bayou
1x Maze of Ith
1x Dryad Arbor
2x Forest
1x Horizon Canopy
1x Karakas
1x Plains
2x Savannah
1x Scrubland
1x Gaea's Cradle
4x Verdant Catacombs
4x Wasteland
4x Windswept Heath

Creature (25)
4x Deathrite Shaman
1x Gaddock Teeg
4x Knight of the Reliquary
3x Mother of Runes
2x Qasali Pridemage
1x Ramunap Excavator
1x Scavenging Ooze
1x Scryb Ranger
3x Stoneforge Mystic
1x Sylvan Safekeeper
4x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben

Enchantment (1)
1x Sylvan Library

Artifact (2)
1x Sword of Fire and Ice
1x Umezawa's Jitte

Instant (4)
4x Swords to Plowshares

Sorcery (4)
4x Green Sun's Zenith

Sideboard (15)
2x Abrupt Decay
2x Blessed Alliance
1x Choke
2x Sanctum Prelate
2x Surgical Extraction
1x Garruk Relentless
3x Thoughtseize
2x Zealous Persecution

I hate the miracles matchup without the batterskull, but it is a bad matchup anyway you look at it. I like the Gaea's Cradle over the DD combo as it makes Knight a much better card in closer matchups. Getting 2 activation's with the extra mana is nice but usually I am tapping out most turns to stay in the game and not giving up the tempo to try and win with the token.

The 3 SFM's are due to the Cradle and the fact that equipment superiority and access is the key to quite a few matchups and with Mom, QPM, and decay I feel like I can always win equipment wars.... that batterskull though.

The velocity from the Cradle is amazing against all decks and allows you to ramp quickly even if you have been waste landing heavily.

The sideboard is stolen from Cpt-QC as I like it and haven't had a reason to change at this point.

[Dreadnaught33]

Maverick


3 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Tireless Tracker
1 Ramunap Excavator
1 Leovold, Emissary of Trest



Hey man- I am warming up to the idea of tracker again, but it's really hard for me to even consider going down to 3 knights...ramunap fits our game plan too well to cut. I've had Leo and he's great sometimes, clunky in others. I would enjoy not having to run trop as i don't own it for one (borrow for big events, run breeding pool otherwise), and would welcome a fetch or basic forest in that spot.

Can you can talk a bit about how this configuration has gone? Thanks!

[lavafrogg]

Hey man- I am warming up to the idea of tracker again, but it's really hard for me to even consider going down to 3 knights...ramunap fits our game plan too well to cut. I've had Leo and he's great sometimes, clunky in others. I would enjoy not having to run trop as i don't own it for one (borrow for big events, run breeding pool otherwise), and would welcome a fetch or basic forest in that spot.

Can you can talk a bit about how this configuration has gone? Thanks!

I cut Knight constantly.

This allows DRS to fully feast on all lands in graveyards and gives you more slots to play with.

3 Tracker 1 Crop Rotation is a good place to start and I plan on playing a knight-less list for my next league.

That being said, if you are not planning on being as extreme as me, Knight is no longer the beast it once was. Decay/Push/TNN have all reduced the effectiveness of the big girl. I feel like GW is due for a new “best” creature soon but we don’t have a clear 100% replacement yet.

Tracker combos with both excavator and Scryb ranger to end games fast, as well as out grind any deck. It also combos with crop rotation to give us access to our utility lands faster.

It is all hypthetical but I have been working on similar builds.

Edit: updated Tracker list

Creatures(25)
4 DRS
4 Mother of Runes
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben

3 Tireless Tracker
3 Stoneforge Mystic
2 Qasali Pridemage
1 Ranumap Excavator
1 Scryb Ranger
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Sylvan Safekeeper

Things(11)
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Green Sun’s Zenith
1 Crop Rotation
1 Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice

Lands(24)
4 Verdant
4 Heath
4 Wasteland
2 Savannah
1 Bayou
2 Forest
1 Plains
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Scrubland
1 Horizon
1 Gaea’s Cradle
1 Maze of Ith
1 Karakas

Sideboard(15)
2 Crop Rotation
1 Bojuka Bog
2 Choke
3 Thoughtseize
2 Containment Priest
2 Zealous Persecution
2 Sanctum Prelate
1 Garruk Relentless

[Bjorn The Jesus]

Hey man- I am warming up to the idea of tracker again, but it's really hard for me to even consider going down to 3 knights...
Can you can talk a bit about how this configuration has gone? Thanks!

I love knight too, and the cut of one for a tracker was a last minute thing. I was mostly trying it out because I expected a lot of fair decks at my lgs and I think the clues really help a lot more grinding that out, when knight can just be forever chumped by elemental tokens and true names. I really love excavator but I'm not certain if he's really totally where I want to be, there's not a huge difference between wasting 4 times or 5 times, at that point you're pretty far ahead and should have won, so the last knight may come in for ramunap going forward.

Take all that with a grain of salt, I'm still a pretty bad player who just has a heck of a lot of luck.

[Cpt-Qc]

I love knight too, and the cut of one for a tracker was a last minute thing. I was mostly trying it out because I expected a lot of fair decks at my lgs and I think the clues really help a lot more grinding that out, when knight can just be forever chumped by elemental tokens and true names. I really love excavator but I'm not certain if he's really totally where I want to be, there's not a huge difference between wasting 4 times or 5 times, at that point you're pretty far ahead and should have won, so the last knight may come in for ramunap going forward.

Take all that with a grain of salt, I'm still a pretty bad player who just has a heck of a lot of luck.

Don't forget that excavator can also produce clues at the cost of your land drop with canopy/kotr. It can also re-enable the DD combo or ramp you up for GSZ. I tried him too and tracker is really sub-par in maverick unless you have a ton of mana to pop the clues (cradle + 4 creatures).

[Yutao]

Don't forget that excavator can also produce clues at the cost of your land drop with canopy/kotr. It can also re-enable the DD combo or ramp you up for GSZ. I tried him too and tracker is really sub-par in maverick unless you have a ton of mana to pop the clues (cradle + 4 creatures).

How essential are you finding cradle to be? Not sure if I want to go drop another $300 on a cradle.

[Cpt-Qc]

How essential are you finding cradle to be? Not sure if I want to go drop another $300 on a cradle.

You usually either play Cradle or the DD combo so that you don't screw up your manabase too much. Right now I think DD is stronger because Grixis and non-white decks are in full swing and they have no way to deal with lage.

So to answer your question, it's not essential right now but there might come a meta in which it is. Or such meta might never come at all, who knows. All I know is I have mine and it was very good at times.

[Jonny Tempel]

Hy guys, new Maverick Player here.

I've started playtesting the 4c Leovold Build three weeks ago but would like to move to a more traditional GWb list. The Primer has been a very good read so far but i've still got a question:

I want to play as few colours as possible, because i'm a fan of simple Manabases with basic lands, so how viable is a build with only 1 Bayou for 4 DRS and 1-2 Decays in the board?
Are the Discard spells necessary against dedicated Combo decks like S&S or is the combo of Wasteland + Hatebears enough?

Is anyone running a straight GW build atm and has some kind of experience to share with me?

Greetings

[pettdan]

I want to play as few colours as possible, because i'm a fan of simple Manabases with basic lands, so how viable is a build with only 1 Bayou for 4 DRS and 1-2 Decays in the board?
Are the Discard spells necessary against dedicated Combo decks like S&S or is the combo of Wasteland + Hatebears enough?

Playing 1 Bayou and 1 Scrubland has been fine for me and I think that's a pretty normal configuration. Edit: I thought your question was 1 vs 2 Bayous, but if you are asking if you can exclude Scrubland that will be a problem for you at times, starting with a forest, fetch and decay for example. But you can, of course, exclude it.

Discard is very good vs combo decks since you otherwise can't interact with them on t1, being on the draw t2 interaction is quite slow.

Edit: very welcome btw! :)

[Skizz]

i like the idea of another "best creature" but i dont think Tireless Tracker is a replacement for Knight.
Tracker is as fragile as Knight is.
knight can maybe survive a bolt with 2 lands in GY where Tracker will die to P.Fire as well, etc. etc.

also does tracker not solve our problem with Nemesis, Strix, etc.

we would need a 3 drop creature kinda like Thrun, the Last Troll / Mirran Crusader with other spicy effects....*christmasland*:really:

[Nelo]

Hy guys, new Maverick Player here.

I've started playtesting the 4c Leovold Build three weeks ago but would like to move to a more traditional GWb list. The Primer has been a very good read so far but i've still got a question:

I want to play as few colours as possible, because i'm a fan of simple Manabases with basic lands, so how viable is a build with only 1 Bayou for 4 DRS and 1-2 Decays in the board?
Are the Discard spells necessary against dedicated Combo decks like S&S or is the combo of Wasteland + Hatebears enough?

Is anyone running a straight GW build atm and has some kind of experience to share with me?

Greetings

The T1 interaction might be replaced by Orims Chant, but the Discard is definitely more versatile and proactive, the only upside of the Chant is the Blowout potential.

[Gwathnar]

I'm also experimenting with Maverick, using a 4C list with Leovold but I'm thinking about just going to 3 colour or GWB.
what's everyone running instead of Leovold in that color combo?

[menloe]

I'm also experimenting with Maverick, using a 4C list with Leovold but I'm thinking about just going to 3 colour or GWB.
what's everyone running instead of Leovold in that color combo?

I'm not on the Leovold train and will run any of the following in GWb:


Courser of Kruphix;
Tireless Tracker;
Renegade Rallier; or,
Ramunap Excavator


Which of these I choose depends on other deck building choices and influences other inclusions down the line. For instance, I like Courser when I'm running Sylvan Library in the main. I like Tireless Tracker when running Gaea's Cradle instead of my usual DD+Stage. If I'm running Cradle, I'm more inclined to lean on the mana-intensive plan B of SFM+equipment. Etc.

I run Garruk in the main for that extra sass too, but my local meta is small, grindy, and mostly fair. Others have discussed bad Larrys like Thrun and Sigarda.

[Stuart]

Courser of Kruphix;
Tireless Tracker;
Renegade Rallier; or,
Ramunap Excavator



Big Thalia has been a great 3 drop for me. She's very aggressive and very hard to play around (though obviously has the downsides of being legendary and not GSZ-able).

[Gwathnar]

I'm not on the Leovold train and will run any of the following in GWb:


Courser of Kruphix;
Tireless Tracker;
Renegade Rallier; or,
Ramunap Excavator


Which of these I choose depends on other deck building choices and influences other inclusions down the line. For instance, I like Courser when I'm running Sylvan Library in the main. I like Tireless Tracker when running Gaea's Cradle instead of my usual DD+Stage. If I'm running Cradle, I'm more inclined to lean on the mana-intensive plan B of SFM+equipment. Etc.

I run Garruk in the main for that extra sass too, but my local meta is small, grindy, and mostly fair. Others have discussed bad Larrys like Thrun and Sigarda.

Thanks!

I've got everything but Courser of Kruphix in there already.
I might try Garruk or Thrun - Thrun could be good since there's a lot of blue in my meta.

[lavafrogg]

i like the idea of another "best creature" but i dont think Tireless Tracker is a replacement for Knight.
Tracker is as fragile as Knight is.
knight can maybe survive a bolt with 2 lands in GY where Tracker will die to P.Fire as well, etc. etc.

also does tracker not solve our problem with Nemesis, Strix, etc.

we would need a 3 drop creature kinda like Thrun, the Last Troll / Mirran Crusader with other spicy effects....*christmasland*:really:

Tireless Tacker does not help with Nemesis, but does help against the decks that Nemesis is played in as he can help combat 1 for 1 removal and get us to the cards that can combat the stupid fish.

The comparisons of Tracker vs Knight are valid, but the advantage tracker shares is the access to the Crop Rotation toolbox much sooner than Knight. Earlier, instant speed access to the land toolbox is nothing to scoff at...(including the combo in certain matchups) especially when crop rotation allows you to draw 2 with a tracker out.

Tracker might not be the 1 to 1 replacement to knight that people are looking for, but a version might exist.

[menloe]

Big Thalia has been a great 3 drop for me. She's very aggressive and very hard to play around (though obviously has the downsides of being legendary and not GSZ-able).

For whatever reason I focused on green critters. I also love THC and have included her since she was released. I split 3/1 OG Thalia/THC.

I also run Mindcensor in the main, but that is, again, knowing what I will expect week to week at the local.

[Megadeus]

i like the idea of another "best creature" but i dont think Tireless Tracker is a replacement for Knight.
Tracker is as fragile as Knight is.
knight can maybe survive a bolt with 2 lands in GY where Tracker will die to P.Fire as well, etc. etc.

also does tracker not solve our problem with Nemesis, Strix, etc.

we would need a 3 drop creature kinda like Thrun, the Last Troll / Mirran Crusader with other spicy effects....*christmasland*:really:

Can play actual Troll Ascetic I suppose? Also Still Moon Cavalier cant die to STP, Push, can infinitely block marit lage or griselbrand, and jumps over TNN.

[Megadeus]

Sorry for double post, but Tracker does open up a possiblity of a "Maverick Stompy" type deck. Nedleeds used to play a pretty sweet list with chalice, sol lands, stoneforge stuff like that. Tracker is easier to cast in that shell and turn 1 Chrome Mox Sol land is T1 Tracker or Thalia HTC which is a fisting. Also fast mana turns on the equipment package much quicker. You can still run some number of KOTR and such as well. That's what the odyssey egg lands or whatever do for you with a Tomb out.

[menloe]

Still Moon Cavalier

awwwwwww yissss :cool::cool::cool::cool::cool::cool::cool:

[Zasse]

Hello everyone! New user here but played Maverick for a year or so!

What I like with Maverick you can always tune it, iterate and see what works, plus nice to not play blue, feeling like the underdog, hehe

Really like the DD combo despite in the beginning it could screw me over. The ability to win the game in a stall is too good too pass upon

New additions - cradle, gq, loam, cobra and voice
Removed - TT, maze, 3rd mom and batterskull

TT seldom did enough, never zenith for it either. and a user posted about voice which could be interesting to try out. My biggest problem is 4cc with k-command being backbreaking. Therefore I also removed batterskull

I think it's correct to remove the 3rd mom, as they tend to be removed as they etb while Sylvan can protect directly, thoughts about adding a 2nd Sylvan?

Ever since ramunap got printed I've played with it, and one copy is the best imo. Recently added gq to be able to remove basics when some ppl play around waste.

Have people played with loam recently to give some more insight? Not sure about it.

Also what are people's opinions playing with teeg in sb only?


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[menloe]

Hello everyone! New user here but played Maverick for a year or so!

What I like with Maverick you can always tune it, iterate and see what works, plus nice to not play blue, feeling like the underdog, hehe

Really like the DD combo despite in the beginning it could screw me over. The ability to win the game in a stall is too good too pass upon

New additions - cradle, gq, loam, cobra and voice
Removed - TT, maze, 3rd mom and batterskull

TT seldom did enough, never zenith for it either. and a user posted about voice which could be interesting to try out. My biggest problem is 4cc with k-command being backbreaking. Therefore I also removed batterskull

I think it's correct to remove the 3rd mom, as they tend to be removed as they etb while Sylvan can protect directly, thoughts about adding a 2nd Sylvan?

Ever since ramunap got printed I've played with it, and one copy is the best imo. Recently added gq to be able to remove basics when some ppl play around waste.

Have people played with loam recently to give some more insight? Not sure about it.

Also what are people's opinions playing with teeg in sb only?


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Welcome bruv. Playing blue is for dorks who identify with Jace and think they're smarter than you. Fuck Jace.

I prefer Teeg in the main because it gives us an out to traditionally bad match ups (Storm, Elves, etc). Stealing game one against those decks is helpful to say the least.

He ticks a number of boxes for me: tutorable, impacts important match ups, has reasonable enough stats that he can get his kithkin shillelagh dirty if need be (bonus points if you're beating down with exalted triggers), and the downside of running him in match ups where he doesn't matter is mitigated by the fact that you're only running one copy. Having one copy you are unlikely to draw in matches that don't care about Teeg, but five copies (six after sideboard) in the matches that do, is a reasonable hedge to me.

Loam is cool. I gave some sideboard slots to it in the past before Ramunap Excavator, which is a card I think it competes with. I think both are cards that are best when you are significantly far ahead of your opponent so I'm not too hot on either currently.

[Yutao]

Is there like a token generator that's GSZithable? My meta's been a ton of grindy stoneblade and piles recently and I'm starting to consider sword of body and mind.

[lavafrogg]

Is there like a token generator that's GSZithable? My meta's been a ton of grindy stoneblade and piles recently and I'm starting to consider sword of body and mind.

Imperious Perfect was always my jam when I wanted to go wide; does great with Scryb Ranger, and lets your DRS attack for 2, still dies to spot removal before untap which sucks.

[Cpt-Qc]

Also technically Titania Protector of Argoth, Huntmaster of the Fells and voice of resurgence, although I doubt this is what you're looking for.

[pettdan]

There's also Pride Sovereign which works well with Scryb Ranger. I didn't try it yet, I have usually been playing Titania which is great for pushing through in such grindy matchups, and I've sometimes played Bitterblossom but not too much results with it, maybe because it's not GSZ-able..

[Erdvermampfa]

Do not underestimate Tendershoot Dryad, it served me quite well in Limited. It should be possible to support Ascend if your goal is to grind with it in the longer games.

[Jonny Tempel]

Playing 1 Bayou and 1 Scrubland has been fine for me and I think that's a pretty normal configuration. Edit: I thought your question was 1 vs 2 Bayous, but if you are asking if you can exclude Scrubland that will be a problem for you at times, starting with a forest, fetch and decay for example. But you can, of course, exclude it.

Discard is very good vs combo decks since you otherwise can't interact with them on t1, being on the draw t2 interaction is quite slow.

Edit: very welcome btw! :)

Thanks for the feedback!

I've adjusted my list to "only" 3 colours. What are your thoughts?

Lands: 23
1x Bayou
1x Dryad Arbor
2x Forest
1x Ghost Quarter
2x Horizon Canopy
1x Karakas
1x Plains
2x Savannah
1x Scrubland
3x Verdant Catacombs
4x Wasteland
4x Windswept Heath

Creatures: 25
4x Deathrite Shaman
1x Gaddock Teeg
4x Knight of the Reliquary
2x Mother of Runes
1x Noble Hierarch
1x Qasali Pridemage
1x Ramunap Excavator
1x Scavenging Ooze
1x Scryb Ranger
2x Stoneforge Mystic
1x Sylvan Safekeeper
4x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1x Tireless Tracker
1x Voice of Resurgence

Spells: 12
4x Green Sun's Zenith
1x Sylvan Library
1x Abrupt Decay
4x Swords to Plowshares
1x Batterskull
1x Umezawa's Jitte

Sideboard:
1x Abrupt Decay
1x Bojuka Bog
1x Choke
2x Containment Priest
2x Ethersworn Canonist
1x Reclamation Sage
2x Surgical Extraction
3x Thoughtseize
2x Zealous Persecution

[Mr. Safety]

Is there like a token generator that's GSZithable? My meta's been a ton of grindy stoneblade and piles recently and I'm starting to consider sword of body and mind.

Ant Queen

[Megadeus]

Jade Mage, Ant Queen, Deranged Hermit, imperious perfect, Rhys The Redeemed

[timmyod17]

Ant Queen

I like Ant Queen way more than Tendershoot Dryad as at least it's a 5/5. If I'm going to run a 5-drop against decks like Pile I want something that's going to provide some value if it immediately eats a Bolt or K-Command or gets tagged by an edict effect. I'd prefer something like Titania, Protector of Argoth or even Thragtusk even if they're not traditional token-makers as they're almost guaranteed to provide some value.

Another consideration could be Garruk, Primal Hunter. His main downside is costing GGG, but he spits out 3/3 tokens and gets himself out of Bolt range right away. Alternatively, he can be cashed in right away to draw cards if you've already got a board presence.

[Cpt-Qc]

Another consideration could be Garruk, Primal Hunter. His main downside is costing GGG, but he spits out 3/3 tokens and gets himself out of Bolt range right away. Alternatively, he can be cashed in right away to draw cards if you've already got a board presence.

I think he was specifically asking for GSZ targets that produce tokens.

If we are talking planeswalker I believe the best one for this deck is Garruk Relentless since he produces 2/2s and can act as removal, albeit a costly one, if necessary. His flip side abilities are also very relevant (great blockers, more tutoring, trample for kotr? yes please!).

[Yutao]

4-5 cmc seems like a bit of a stretch. I guess I'm just looking for a huntmaster of the fells type card. ETB value, and can cause some serious value if left unchecked. Planeswalkers are great against 4c, just not Zenithable. Voice of Resurgence does a pretty alright job against them, since I don't think they have any form of exile. Ophiomancer can technically make value, only that it dies to everything and can't be zenithable. Caller of the Claw doesn't work well with zenith but can be pretty devastating against a deluge.

[Megadeus]

Sigarda not good enough? Can't die to basically anything from Pile plus it carries weapons so fucking well

[Fatal]

Sigarda not good enough? Can't die to basically anything from Pile plus it carries weapons so fucking well

Almost agreed it can only be Deluged for 5 life. Don't use idiotic Ant Queen or etc when you have Flying edict proof 5/5 hexproof killer.

[timmyod17]

Sigarda not good enough? Can't die to basically anything from Pile plus it carries weapons so fucking well

I used to love Sidarga but just feels bad right now with so many Baleful Strix running around.

[Cpt-Qc]

^^ This.

Unless you plan on using all your removal on strix, I'd stay away from the lady. You can always give it pro black with mom, but doing it for only 5 damage seems greedy. Now for a 10/10 knight or a 20/20 lage that would be a different thing...

[Mr. Safety]

4-5 cmc seems like a bit of a stretch. I guess I'm just looking for a huntmaster of the fells type card. ETB value, and can cause some serious value if left unchecked. Planeswalkers are great against 4c, just not Zenithable. Voice of Resurgence does a pretty alright job against them, since I don't think they have any form of exile. Ophiomancer can technically make value, only that it dies to everything and can't be zenithable. Caller of the Claw doesn't work well with zenith but can be pretty devastating against a deluge.

Aren't you answering your own question? Huntmaster should be fine then. Master of the Wild Hunt is another 4 drop that creates a token a turn, but falls into the range of dying to Lightning Bolt. That's why I suggested Ant Queen, as it is a 5/5 that avoids Bolt. I can see having 8 mana available realistically as well, meaning you can Zenith for it and then make a token to avoid Edict. Most of the other token producers require a tap effect, so I think Ant Queen and Jade Mage are likely better (they can also both be activated several times a turn.) Jade Mage is cheaper to Zenith + activate (7 mana) but still doesn't avoid Bolt/KCommand as removal.

EDIT: If it's value you want, and not just more bodies, Eternal Witness seems very strong (if you haven't already included 1 in your 75.)

[lavafrogg]

Any tips on the Turbo Depths matchup?

My win and in for the top 8 is with a really good Turbo Depths player.

[Cpt-Qc]

Any tips on the Turbo Depths matchup?

My win and in for the top 8 is with a really good Turbo Depths player.

Lands/Turbo Depths and TNN are the main reason I play 2 Blessed Alliance in the board. It's also a bonus that it helps with burn, reanimator, show and tell and sometimes even decks with infinite blockers like grixis delver.

[Fatal]

Any tips on the Turbo Depths matchup?

My win and in for the top 8 is with a really good Turbo Depths player.
As mention blessed alliance, KotR, obviously wasteland and ghost quarter, side in artifact removal against needles. Discard is also good in early turn. If you running mom use it and has for bop to block token. Turn 2, KotR is also good. Timing is the most important don't try to waste vs open green mana, Tax him play and fetch at his eot. Don't forgot about Sylvan Safekeeper. You have two options attack him early on Mana when he is tapped or side in special cards like Zealous Persecution. Very nice is also gsz for Granger to ping him constantly. To use combo he needs additional 2 Mana along with DD/TS. Keep in STP to gain time against fast token.

[lavafrogg]

Would you bring in Decays and ZP? Seems like I could overboard pretty easily.

I’m running straight GW main with Cradle and Maze, side board is QC’s.

[Fatal]

Would you bring in Decays and ZP? Seems like I could overboard pretty easily.

I’m running straight GW main with Cradle and Maze, side board is QC’s.
All depends what you seen G1 and what is your opponent game plan on G2.
If you running GW with maze which isn't bad here
, you probably run 2 Qasali and any kind of additional removal like path to exile except swords to Plowshares. Maverick is favorable here since you have so many routes to interact like:
-stop combo by wasteland
-stop combo by ghost quarter
-block token with flyer and mom backup
-block token with maze
-kill token with STP
-kill token with path/blessed alliance
-bounce token with Karakas
-assemble own token if you run DD/TS(use their DD)
-kill their Mana base so they don't have Mana

Each other card which doesn't lead to those routes should be sided out, except Jitte.

[lavafrogg]

All depends what you seen G1 and what is your opponent game plan on G2.
If you running GW with maze which isn't bad here
, you probably run 2 Qasali and any kind of additional removal like path to exile except swords to Plowshares. Maverick is favorable here since you have so many routes to interact like:
-stop combo by wasteland
-stop combo by ghost quarter
-block token with flyer and mom backup
-block token with maze
-kill token with STP
-kill token with path/blessed alliance
-bounce token with Karakas
-assemble own token if you run DD/TS(use their DD)
-kill their Mana base so they don't have Mana

Each other card which doesn't lead to those routes should be sided out, except Jitte.

Thanks!

I play all of this except GQ and Path. We play tonight.... I’ll let you know how It Goes!

Edit: lost 2-0.... game 1 he had turn 1 forest Safekeeper, turn 2 urborg, Crop Rotation, Dark Depths, hexmage.... game 2 he drew exactly what he needed while hellbent 3-4 turns in a row... including double map, Thoughtseize and Crop Rotation for the steppe. I drew zero wastelands bob games and still feel like it is a good matchup for us.

[Skizz]

Thanks!

I play all of this except GQ and Path. We play tonight.... I’ll let you know how It Goes!

Edit: lost 2-0.... game 1 he had turn 1 forest Safekeeper, turn 2 urborg, Crop Rotation, Dark Depths, hexmage.... game 2 he drew exactly what he needed while hellbent 3-4 turns in a row... including double map, Thoughtseize and Crop Rotation for the steppe. I drew zero wastelands bob games and still feel like it is a good matchup for us.

sometimes they just have it all...

did you play your knight-less list with 3 Tracker,1 Crop Rotation Main?
i think ill give it a try!

[Fatal]

Thanks!

I play all of this except GQ and Path. We play tonight.... I’ll let you know how It Goes!

Edit: lost 2-0.... game 1 he had turn 1 forest Safekeeper, turn 2 urborg, Crop Rotation, Dark Depths, hexmage.... game 2 he drew exactly what he needed while hellbent 3-4 turns in a row... including double map, Thoughtseize and Crop Rotation for the steppe. I drew zero wastelands bob games and still feel like it is a good matchup for us.

Scenario from game 1 is interesting:

Turn 1:
Forest -> Safekeeper

Turn 2:
Urborg, -> Crop Rotation (from Forest) - so urborg stays inplay. - in this moment (while Crop is on stack) you have window to cast removal and opponent have to choose - losing Safekeeper or slowing down his combo by turn. Poper line is to cast that removal since on longer game you won't resolve any removal with safekeeper in play in row (mostly no mana, and first is blocked by Safekeeper).

Alternative good line is to cast removal on safekeeper right away in turn 1. It's depends on two factors - first factor does you have mana dork (if not you should cast removal turn 1, even if it only mean 'stone rain') second factor is draw/play situation - on draw this line is much more risky since you don't develop your board.

As Skizz said - it's Magic sometimes combo decks have everything and you can't stop them - like turn 1 AdN on draw, Belcher canon or Dark ritual thoughtsize, entomb, reanimate... BUT it is narrow best way to deal with those combo decks is to practice a lot, sometimes we just didn't saw window in time to break sequence of their plan.

[Cpt-Qc]

This is a very interesting case indeed. Setting up traps like this is a good way to trick opponent in giving us a chance. Even tho we are favored in the matchup, this kind of starting hand happens from time to time and there's nothing a non-blue deck can do about it.

[Skizz]

As Skizz said - it's Magic sometimes combo decks have everything and you can't stop them - like turn 1 AdN on draw, Belcher canon or Dark ritual thoughtsize, entomb, reanimate... BUT it is narrow best way to deal with those combo decks is to practice a lot, sometimes we just didn't saw window in time to break sequence of their plan.
.. the good thing about combo decks is that you have TIME to think about the situation a little bit longer then playing grindy matchups.:rolleyes:

SCD: Steal Leaf Champion - i think this is an interesting card/beater - kinda unblockable force against grixis-army, elves, strix...
especially when protected by mother of runes/safekeeper
i think i will test one when its available - what do you think about it?

[lavafrogg]

Scenario from game 1 is interesting:

Turn 1:
Forest -> Safekeeper

Turn 2:
Urborg, -> Crop Rotation (from Forest) - so urborg stays inplay. - in this moment (while Crop is on stack) you have window to cast removal and opponent have to choose - losing Safekeeper or slowing down his combo by turn. Poper line is to cast that removal since on longer game you won't resolve any removal with safekeeper in play in row (mostly no mana, and first is blocked by Safekeeper).

Alternative good line is to cast removal on safekeeper right away in turn 1. It's depends on two factors - first factor does you have mana dork (if not you should cast removal turn 1, even if it only mean 'stone rain') second factor is draw/play situation - on draw this line is much more risky since you don't develop your board.

As Skizz said - it's Magic sometimes combo decks have everything and you can't stop them - like turn 1 AdN on draw, Belcher canon or Dark ritual thoughtsize, entomb, reanimate... BUT it is narrow best way to deal with those combo decks is to practice a lot, sometimes we just didn't saw window in time to break sequence of their plan.

I mulliganed the first game and had a turn 2 knight as interaction, game 2 my starting hand was Karakas, Thoughtseize, Swords, Thalia, Knight and he drew gas while I never saw a Wasteland or second GSZ. I should have easily won the second game but random acts of magic happen.

[Fatal]

I mulliganed the first game and had a turn 2 knight as interaction, game 2 my starting hand was Karakas, Thoughtseize, Swords, Thalia, Knight and he drew gas while I never saw a Wasteland or second GSZ. I should have easily won the second game but random acts of magic happen.

Second hand looked like godlike - t.size discard needle/answer to karakas, then karakas with thalia to clock his turns, then just close game with Knight which probably will be discarded.

Steel Leaf Champion I dislike it is next 3CMC beater which doesn't bring any value except conditonal unblockable - I would put Loxodon Smiter much before. It's much better to fight today meta - good vs Tempo (can't be dazed/fowed), can't be discarded and good protection against K.Commands and Lilianas.

[lavafrogg]

Second hand looked like godlike - t.size discard needle/answer to karakas, then karakas with thalia to clock his turns, then just close game with Knight which probably will be discarded.

Steel Leaf Champion I dislike it is next 3CMC beater which doesn't bring any value except conditonal unblockable - I would put Loxodon Smiter much before. It's much better to fight today meta - good vs Tempo (can't be dazed/fowed), can't be discarded and good protection against K.Commands and Lilianas.

Yeah.... game 2 was rough for me. His sequence of drawn cards while hellbent was: thoughtsieze, took Swords, map for stage, map for quarter, kill Karakas, crop rotation for steppe, I had mom+Ranger....

I was locked into a Knight list but I went 5-3 and missed top 8 so I am going to put more effort into a Tracker+Crop Rotation list.

[EventHorizon]

There's also Pride Sovereign which works well with Scryb Ranger. I didn't try it yet, I have usually been playing Titania which is great for pushing through in such grindy matchups, and I've sometimes played Bitterblossom but not too much results with it, maybe because it's not GSZ-able..

I somehow really like the idea of flooding the board with lifelink kittens. Here is a list:

4 Deathrite Shaman
1 Noble Hierarch
1 Quirion Ranger
4 Mother of Runes
2 Qasali Pridemage
2 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Scryb Ranger
1 Scavenging Ooze
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Knight of the Reliquary
3 Pride Sovereign

4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Blessed Alliance
1 Sylvan Library
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice

4 Windswept heath
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wasteland
2 Savannah
1 Bayou
1 Scrubland
1 Plains
1 Forest
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Karakas
1 Gaea's Cradle
1 Horizon Canopy

SB:

3 Thoughtseize
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Zealous Persecution
1 Blessed Alliance
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Choke
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Containment Priest
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
1 Titania, Protector of Argoth

Okay, maybe I went overboard with the kittens, two are probably enough. Exert is really good with untap effects though; Blessed Alliance fits in well. And going really wide beats Baleful Strix and True-Name Nemesis.
Bad news:
- The cat dies really fast. Even to Kolaghan's Command, which is painful.
- Boardclears a la Infest or Pyroclasm always get the big cat as well, since it shrinks back
- a lot of kittens are going to have to die

If you want to get even more cute (you are playing kittens, after all):
- Gideon or Zealous Persecution in Mainboard
- Brimaz, King of Oreskos
- Gavony Township
- Wilt-Leaf Liege

[Cpt-Qc]

I don't think the deck needs any help vs Stoneblade since we are well equiped for it, but if you want to make your pile matchup better you can always play a creature they cannot get rid of instead of a tokens generator. You literally cannot lose once Rhonas hits the board vs a grindy non-white deck. But then again, we already have marit lage for that role so having both might be overkill...

[Milo687]

Playing at GP Seattle this weekend with this list. Will post a report after Day 1.

Punishing Maverick

MB:
Creature: 21
4 Knight of the Reliquary
3 Deathrite Shaman
3 Mother of Runes
2 Stoneforge Mystic
2 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Noble Hierarch
1 Birds of Paradise
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Scryb Ranger
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Ramunap Excavator

Non-Creature Spells: 14
4 Swords of Plowshares
4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Punishing Fire
1 Sylvan Library
1 Swords of Fire and Ice
1 Umezawa's Jitte

Lands:25
4 Windswept Heath
3 Wooded Foothills
3 Wasteland
3 Grove of the Burnwillows
2 Savannah
1 Taiga
1 Plateau
1 Bayou
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Karakas
1 Thespian's Stage
1 Dark Depths
1 Plains
1 Forest

SB:15
1 Gaddock Teeg
2 Containment Priest
2 Thoughtseize
1 Bayou
2 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Crop Rotation
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Zealous Persecution
1 Reclamation Sage




Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

[Skizz]

offtopic: is there a facebook group for maverick-players?

[pettdan]

offtopic: is there a facebook group for maverick-players?

I don't know but there is an active Discord (linked in the Discord thread: http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?32196-Discord-Servers).

Edit:
@ EventHorizon: sweet to see a new poster, welcome! I think the cat has some potential, with a scryb ranger around you get 4 1/1 lifelinkers and a 6/6 cat after one turn and can make that 6 tokens and an 8/8 after two turns. Though it's hard to compete at the 3-drop slot for sure. Probably it's not going to be strong enough, but who knows. I think playing 3 copies is ok when testing it, but probably it's not going to turn out strong enough to have such a presence in the deck. Just imagine the situations when a KotR is gamewinning and when the cat is, for sure the KotR going to be instrumental in more situations so you probably don't want to stay at 3. But what do I know.. Good luck and report back! :)

[Stuart]

Fuck yeah Miranda Keith (https://magic.wizards.com/en/events/coverage/gpsea18-legacy/top-8-decklists-2018-04-07)

[lavafrogg]

Fuck yeah Miranda Keith (https://magic.wizards.com/en/events/coverage/gpsea18-legacy/top-8-decklists-2018-04-07)

That's a big deal! I wish she,?, would have made it past her first round delver opponent as that usually is a good matchup overall. Other than that this obviously means a spike in Maverick players for the next month or so.

For the list, it doesn't run the combo, which I have been moving towards, and she runs the Gideon and the Sigarda in the board to help fight control decks... which happened to be everywhere.

Just love it all.

[Schryver]

Miranda actually said Sigarda was bad but I'm not sure what all the matchups were

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

[haganbmj]

Miranda actually said Sigarda was bad but I'm not sure what all the matchups were

She said on Reddit that they just didn't have a matchup to bring it in for. Whether that's a sign the card just doesn't deserve the slot right now is debatable.


I didn't actually get to bring in Sigarda at all, but she's been incredible when I've played her in the past and I just generally absolutely love the card. She's also fantastic with Gaea's Cradle.

https://www.reddit.com/r/MTGLegacy/comments/8amw5r/gp_seattle_legacy_top_8/dx0blpb/

[NegatorITA]

That's a big deal! I wish she,?, would have made it past her first round delver opponent as that usually is a good matchup overall. Other than that this obviously means a spike in Maverick players for the next month or so.

For the list, it doesn't run the combo, which I have been moving towards, and she runs the Gideon and the Sigarda in the board to help fight control decks... which happened to be everywhere.

Just love it all.

Yup here I am
Ready to pick up the deck again after some disappointing results with the punishing list. :)
Isn't 23 lands a bit to much without the combo?

[menloe]

Yup here I am
Ready to pick up the deck again after some disappointing results with the punishing list. :)
Isn't 23 lands a bit to much without the combo?

Not too much. It just depends on how good you think Maze of Ith is vs. a spell you would run in lieu of.

[lavafrogg]

Not too much. It just depends on how good you think Maze of Ith is vs. a spell you would run in lieu of.

Currently I think the Cradle/Maze is the better plan as the stage usually only wins when you have an active knight, which means you should be winning anyways...

I like the Maze because it can be used offensively, attack untap search, or defensively, as intended. The Cradle allows for explosive played and huge tempo gains.

[Cpt-Qc]

Currently I think the Cradle/Maze is the better plan as the stage usually only wins when you have an active knight, which means you should be winning anyways...

I like the Maze because it can be used offensively, attack untap search, or defensively, as intended. The Cradle allows for explosive played and huge tempo gains.

I'm actually kinda sick of hearing that if kotr is active you should be winning already. It might be a bit of an exageration: She gets chumped for days, gets killed by most removal and opponent doesn't usually have only nonbasics in their deck so you need something to make opponent scared of her. If you're staring at a TNN or a Strix, you want to do something else than just getting more mana (would you really play a 3cc mana dork, even if it generated 4 mana by itself?)

TLDR, most decks have ways to deal with her, she's "just a creature", even IF she is big (with that many DRS around she doesn't get much bigger than 5-6 lately). That's why you either need craddle + something to dump lots of mana into, the DD combo or a land that allows her to hit face.

[menloe]

Currently I think the Cradle/Maze is the better plan as the stage usually only wins when you have an active knight, which means you should be winning anyways...

I like the Maze because it can be used offensively, attack untap search, or defensively, as intended. The Cradle allows for explosive played and huge tempo gains.

I run Maze for those reasons too. I'm also on the DD combo though, which brings me to a total of 23 or 24 lands. (My entry into the format was a Punishing list with 26 lands so I'm not squeamish about a higher land count.)

Gaea's Cradle is one of my favorite cards. The art is incredible. The ability is incredible. The nostalgia for that time period is real. It was one of a few very successful Puca trades I made and I ended up bonusing about 30% to get it (it was time to get out anyway so NBD). Came from Germany smelling like cigarette smoke but I happily added it to my vault of expensive cardboard, which I swim around in from time to time like Scrooge McDuck from Duck Tales (for reference: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aPX5mRSQ3pw). I regret not playing it for all of those reasons, but the combo is just too good not to run.

[Cpt-Qc]

I run Maze for those reasons too. I'm also on the DD combo though, which brings me to a total of 23 or 24 lands. (My entry into the format was a Punishing list with 26 lands so I'm not squeamish about a higher land count.)

I'm on 23 mana producing lands atm so 1 more than you but I was thinking that we might not even need 2 forest anymore and going down to 22 mana producing lands might be enough.. The most efficient way to trim would be to shave 1 basic or 1 bayou. Do you run 3 black sources or 3 basics?

I'm trying to make my land package a little more attractive by adding maybe maze, cavern or even cradle in addition to the DD combo.

Edit: Or I could also play the 8th fetch...

[Megadeus]

I'm actually kinda sick of hearing that if kotr is active you should be winning already. It might be a bit of an exageration: She gets chumped for days, gets killed by most removal and opponent doesn't usually have only nonbasics in their deck so you need something to make opponent scared of her. If you're staring at a TNN or a Strix, you want to do something else than just getting more mana (would you really play a 3cc mana dork, even if it generated 4 mana by itself?)

TLDR, most decks have ways to deal with her, she's "just a creature", even IF she is big (with that many DRS around she doesn't get much bigger than 5-6 lately). That's why you either need craddle + something to dump lots of mana into, the DD combo or a land that allows her to hit face.

You know what card doesn't care about TNN or Strix that you can search for that still allows you to play Cradle? Rogue's Passage. That and it single handedly wins a stalled board against Death and Taxes. Nice Mother of Runes plus million creatures. Take 10.

[Cpt-Qc]

Yeah that's a great option to dump mana into. As I said, you need something else to make kotr scary cause by herself she's not that bad anymore.

[menloe]

I'm on 23 mana producing lands atm so 1 more than you but I was thinking that we might not even need 2 forest anymore and going down to 22 mana producing lands might be enough.. The most efficient way to trim would be to shave 1 basic or 1 bayou. Do you run 3 black sources or 3 basics?

I'm trying to make my land package a little more attractive by adding maybe maze, cavern or even cradle in addition to the DD combo.

Edit: Or I could also play the 8th fetch...

I like three basics honestly. I don't always run three, but that configuration has tended to be my favorite. My current build has two basics and a Cavern.

The idea of another Bayou appeals to me but the difference in price between that and my preferred basic forest (Unglued, natch) is $230 that I don't want to spend. So far one Bayou and one Scrubland has worked just fine for me.

It doesn't hurt to try, especially if you're mostly battling at your weekly local. I have a feeling you can get away with most but not all of what you're suggesting. The problem with DD, Maze, and Gaea's Cradle all at the same time is the chance of drawing too many colorless/non-mana producing sources. But being able to tutor them at will is obviously cool. I've thrown in Volrath's Stronghold and other misc lands using that rationale.

Megadeus has a point about Rogue's Passage. The ability to resolve problematic board states with one less card than the DD combo looks good to me.

[Stuart]

As a quick thought: if DRS gets banned, Wasteland gets stronger, and then our basics look better. I'd plan on your manabase including 3+ basics after next week.

[Cpt-Qc]

As a quick thought: if DRS gets banned, Wasteland gets stronger, and then our basics look better. I'd plan on your manabase including 3+ basics after next week.

I'd love that if drs got banned but it's not happening anytime soon. It took them 4 years of miracles dominating the format before they took 1 piece out. This is way too fast.

[Zasse]

4cc matchups are the worst! Always feel so extremly underpowered and get to keep nothing while they cantrip or 2 for 1 us:

Hymn and Kolaghan being especially annoying paired with that occasionally snappy...

Any suggestions, tips, or something? Trying voice and renegade rallier in the main, Gideon Ally and Lili last hope in sb

Is it worth to bring in zealous? Thoughtseize?

[menloe]

As a quick thought: if DRS gets banned, Wasteland gets stronger, and then our basics look better. I'd plan on your manabase including 3+ basics after next week.

RIP my wallet after having to buy three more Heirarchs :(

But dats cool, eff DRS.

[lavafrogg]

Would we gain or lose from a DRS ban? I would argue that we are in a better place with dRS than we are without.

I can see knight being larger and wasteland being more effective but DRS helps with our splashes as well as giving us more game against graveyard strategies and burn.

[haganbmj]

Would we gain or lose from a DRS ban? I would argue that we are in a better place with dRS than we are without.

I can see knight being larger and wasteland being more effective but DRS helps with our splashes as well as giving us more game against graveyard strategies and burn.

With any luck a Deathrite ban would be accompanied by Griselbrand to make reanimator a bit less ludicrous.
There are plenty of non-Deathrite graveyard tools, though. Before Deathrite was printed I was a fan of Crop Rotation + Bojuka Bog in Maverick.

[menloe]

Would we gain or lose from a DRS ban? I would argue that we are in a better place with dRS than we are without.

I can see knight being larger and wasteland being more effective but DRS helps with our splashes as well as giving us more game against graveyard strategies and burn.

I tend to think better for the reasons you give. I find DRS to be underwhelming in Maverick as we have access to far better dorks. Mostly it feels like it's there to play that annoying DRS standoff mini game than to squelch the turn 2 fuckery from Reanimator et al.

We'd still have pretty good game against graveyard strategies. The majority of anti-graveyard cards are not DRS and we still get to run all the good ones. Not sure about burn, but I always felt like DRS didn't do enough in that matchup...

[lavafrogg]

I tend to think better for the reasons you give. I find DRS to be underwhelming in Maverick as we have access to far better dorks. Mostly it feels like it's there to play that annoying DRS standoff mini game than to squelch the turn 2 fuckery from Reanimator et al.

We'd still have pretty good game against graveyard strategies. The majority of anti-graveyard cards are not DRS and we still get to run all the good ones. Not sure about burn, but I always felt like DRS didn't do enough in that matchup...

The main reason in my head is not one I stated.

If DRS gets banned, what becomes the new “best” deck? I think UW Miracles is in prime position to take the top dog position and would continue to make our lives miserable. What else would challenge Miracles?

[timmyod17]

I tend to think better for the reasons you give. I find DRS to be underwhelming in Maverick as we have access to far better dorks. Mostly it feels like it's there to play that annoying DRS standoff mini game than to squelch the turn 2 fuckery from Reanimator et al.

We'd still have pretty good game against graveyard strategies. The majority of anti-graveyard cards are not DRS and we still get to run all the good ones. Not sure about burn, but I always felt like DRS didn't do enough in that matchup...

I agree with this in general. I think Maverick actually would benefit slightly from a ban. Knight, Wasteland, Excavator, Ooze, Rallier all get much better in this scenario. Thalia also gets somewhat better as well with fewer mana dorks running around in the metagame.

I suspect most Maverick builds would then go to 4 Nobles, which would give most builds of the deck at least 16 humans main deck (4x Mother, Thalia, Noble, Knight) not including more fringe cards like Rallier, Tireless Tracker, Sylvan Safekeeper and sideboard fare like Canonist and Prelate. With that many humans I think it makes sense to try 1-2x Cavern of Souls, which would be nice as I've seen a fair bit of Counterbalance out of Miracles decks over the past few months at larger events.

4c Pile type decks would bite the dust. Grixis Delver would be no more. BUG Delver will be somewhat neutered as well. Elves will take a hit but probably be OK. Agreed that Miracles would benefit. There would probably be lots of U/R Delver as I'd imagine people would switch from Grixis and BUG, and Eldrazi could come back to fight Miracles and U/R. Maybe RUG Delver would become a thing again without DRS laughing at Nimble Mongoose?

[Rascalyote]

RIP my wallet after having to buy three more Heirarchs :(

But dats cool, eff DRS.

I'm not looking forward to getting 3 more Judge Nobles if that's the case :(.

Also all versions of the card are sold out on SCG, speculation?

[menloe]

I mentioned lorkac's Scrub's Land series on reddit before. I think they make a lot of really compelling points RE DRS (not necessarily pro-ban, but appears to incline that way)/Maverick's position in a post-ban world. Those posts are not your average reddit neck beardery (sorry redditors :tongue:) and are well worth a read.

The right number of dorks seems to be about six. BoP gives access to splash colors and NH helps serve the beats. BoP supports our black sideboard cards (and maindeck Decays if anyone is still on that) but is underwhelming in multiples. NH is bad for splashing but is great in multiples (stacking on exalted triggers is no joke). My guess is we want three NH and two BoP + GSZ for Dryad Arbor for the dorkage. Any thoughts?

[Fatal]

I mentioned lorkac's Scrub's Land series on reddit before. I think they make a lot of really compelling points RE DRS (not necessarily pro-ban, but appears to incline that way)/Maverick's position in a post-ban world. Those posts are not your average reddit neck beardery (sorry redditors :tongue:) and are well worth a read.

The right number of dorks seems to be about six. BoP gives access to splash colors and NH helps serve the beats. BoP supports our black sideboard cards (and maindeck Decays if anyone is still on that) but is underwhelming in multiples. NH is bad for splashing but is great in multiples (stacking on exalted triggers is no joke). My guess is we want three NH and two BoP + GSZ for Dryad Arbor for the dorkage. Any thoughts?

I suggest 4 NH and 1 Bop - Bops are very poor in multiple and it increase risk of sweep.

Few words after Shaman Ban (if it occur):
- We will be much more expose for -1/-1 effects
- Knight became again best 3 cmc thread which must be killed asap - since it will be proper size (in mid 5/5 is normal in late 10/10 or bigger is normal)
- Our not great machup will disappear - 4c with basics without DRS can't exist - BUG will back but it will be much worst - maybe they start to play other dork like Hierarch
- RUG will replace Grixis Delver (almost sure)
- Reanimator will be again much better (maybe even tier 1) specially Blue version.
- Dredge will be much common then today

My prediction to top tiers decks:

Tier 1:
- Miracles (rise)
- RUG Delver (big rise)
- Sneak Show (big rise)
- Reanimator (big rise)
- Stoneblade UW (big rise)
- Lands (rise)
- ANT (stable)
- Death & Taxes (stable)

Tier 2:
- Eldrazi Stompy (down)
- Infect (stable)
- Maverick (rise)
- Dragon Stompy (down)
- Dredge (rise)
- Turbo Depths (down)
- MUD (rise)
- Aggro Loam (rise)
- Aluren (down)
- Food Chain (down)
- Turbo Eldrazi (rise)
- Team America (with Goose and Dark Confidants) - (rise)
- Burn (stable)
- TES (stable)
- UWR Delver (stable)
- High Tide (rise)

Tier 3:
- Pox (stable)
- Death Ale Guy (down)
- Eva Green (stable)
- The Rock (stable)
- Imperial Painter (down)
- Jund (down)
- Nic Fit (stable)
- The Gate (down)

- Enchantress
- Merfolks
- Goblins
- Solider Stompy
- Thalia Stompy
- Shardless BUG
- Stoneblade Bant
- Team Italia
- Mono U OmniTell
- Big Red
- Belcher
and all other decks which are predators and can win even a whole tournament, but they are also so unique that I don't remember theirs names :-).

[lavafrogg]

I firmly do not believe that DRS will be banned and do not want to see it get the ax either way.

I like that we are a deck that gets to play the most broken creature in the format, along with the rest of out degenerate squad, and he gives us a ton of game against a wide variety of decks.

What I feel needs to happen isn't with the banned list, but with the printing of new cards. GW needs another teeg/thalia type hatebear that punishes the cantrip/counter style of blue decks. Leovold needed to be GWB instead of GUB for its taxing effects and protection offset. TNN needed to be a white creature, as that is what protection historically has been.

I will say that they did a great job for DnT the past few releases, but GSZ and friends have largely been left out.

[Rascalyote]

I firmly do not believe that DRS will be banned and do not want to see it get the ax either way.

I like that we are a deck that gets to play the most broken creature in the format, along with the rest of out degenerate squad, and he gives us a ton of game against a wide variety of decks.

What I feel needs to happen isn't with the banned list, but with the printing of new cards. GW needs another teeg/thalia type hatebear that punishes the cantrip/counter style of blue decks. Leovold needed to be GWB instead of GUB for its taxing effects and protection offset. TNN needed to be a white creature, as that is what protection historically has been.

I will say that they did a great job for DnT the past few releases, but GSZ and friends have largely been left out.

To be fair tracker, snake, and Rallier are all pretty good and a step in the right direction, but Id like more stuff that costs 2. A bear that fights when it comes into play? A green thalia? Now that'd be some powerful (and unlikely) help

[lavafrogg]

To be fair tracker, snake, and Rallier are all pretty good and a step in the right direction, but Id like more stuff that costs 2. A bear that fights when it comes into play? A green thalia? Now that'd be some powerful (and unlikely) help

Omg. I would love a 2/3 for 2 that fought a creature on EtB, a 2/2 for GW that did relevant fair things. A GWW 3/3 with a unique skill set. Any form of card advantage attached to a green 2 drop.

Just more GSZ targets that are relevant in the early game. At our core we are a GSZ deck, we need power creep on our targets that differentiate us from them.

[menloe]

I firmly do not believe that DRS will be banned and do not want to see it get the ax either way.

I like that we are a deck that gets to play the most broken creature in the format, along with the rest of out degenerate squad, and he gives us a ton of game against a wide variety of decks.

What I feel needs to happen isn't with the banned list, but with the printing of new cards. GW needs another teeg/thalia type hatebear that punishes the cantrip/counter style of blue decks. Leovold needed to be GWB instead of GUB for its taxing effects and protection offset. TNN needed to be a white creature, as that is what protection historically has been.

I will say that they did a great job for DnT the past few releases, but GSZ and friends have largely been left out.

I like the cut of your jib. We're not likely to see the overt favoritism that DnT has been treated to lately, but more powerful green creatures are basically inevitable at this point. That may be the way forward, as you say.

I don’t think DRS is particularly broken in Maverick. I would call it a powerful but fair card in Maverick that is often bad at what a predominantly green shell needs it for in most match ups: ramping to a turn 3 KotR or turn 2 Thalia/Wasteland/say go.

That isn’t to say it’s not a worthwhile inclusion in Maverick. It checks all the boxes: it’s a GSZ-targetable (modal!) spell with power/toughness. However, I don’t think the card would be a four of auto-include in every Maverick list but for the need to counter opposing DRS. (Noble Hierarch in particular is better at supporting our plan A because its primary ability is not contingent on anything other than untapping.) We have to be able to counter their ramp in the early game and their “drain you for two” every turn in the late game or risk getting buried.

I would argue that Maverick suffers in a meta where the top two decks also get to run DRS. Opposing DRSes limit the number of times we can activate any of its abilities and give these decks a counter to all the facets of our plan A. It could even be worse for or us than it is for a deck like B/R Reanimator. At least they can still win on turn 1.

That’s what makes it a broken card: the fact that the top two decks are UBRg and get to (a) run four out of five colors’ best spells with virtually no draw back; (b) elbow in on our cool shit (ramp/dorks that do stuff); and, (c) wreck our game plan specifically. They also have more cards to deal with our DRS than we do theirs so it’s usually the UBRg player who’s reaping the full benefit of the card. Totally fine and fair in a green deck, but broken and unfair outside of a green deck.

[Claymore]

Reading the report from the Maverick player that Top 8'd the GP, she got bailed out a ton of times by DRS. Either life gain against aggro, stopping Reanimator, or smoothing mana. I'm not sure what you can supplement by just shoving in Noble and Birds to replace DRS, but the deck is going to have to shift (Scooze) in order to fill that gap - or the sideboard changes significantly.

[Megadeus]

DRS is integral at this point in the meta. It helps you to not get completely stonewalled by a true name, it helps out against the unfair decks (some percentage points is better than none), and it helps you n the DRS mirror in the mana denial plan by allowing you to deny their DRS mana with your own. A trick I have used many times to great success

[Fatal]

I firmly do not believe that DRS will be banned and do not want to see it get the ax either way.

I like that we are a deck that gets to play the most broken creature in the format, along with the rest of out degenerate squad, and he gives us a ton of game against a wide variety of decks.

What I feel needs to happen isn't with the banned list, but with the printing of new cards. GW needs another teeg/thalia type hatebear that punishes the cantrip/counter style of blue decks. Leovold needed to be GWB instead of GUB for its taxing effects and protection offset. TNN needed to be a white creature, as that is what protection historically has been.

I will say that they did a great job for DnT the past few releases, but GSZ and friends have largely been left out.

Strongly agree with everything what you said !

Maverick need good GSZable CMC 2 drop with good etb effect. We can't gain EtB value from GSZ with CMC2. We can only use tricks like Scryb, or a beater with build in grave hate (Ooze) or Gaddock block.



2/3 for 2 that fought a creature on EtB, a 2/2 for GW that did relevant fair things.
That would be probably broken. Maybe some effect like "tap target permanent and doesn't untap in next untap phase, if it's black destroy it instead" would be enough, body 2/1.

[lavafrogg]

I don’t think a GW 2/3 that fought a creature would be broken.

Baleful strix draws a card and trades in combat.

SFM is a card advantage tutor.

The point would be that it is specific to GW decks and gives us advantage from the 2cc slot. It is a GW hatebear against other small creatures/hate bears.

What about GW 2/2 with a 1/1 token that can be removed to ping? Make it legendary to boot!

That is the type of card we need. We need an actual reason, in addition to Knight, to stay GW and wreck.

That being said...

I am currently on a new list that is straight GW with Cradle and both Sigarda and Batterskull as mana dumps. They are both pretty cool and amazing when you have a small knight.

So far I have had a turn 3 Sigarda and I have played SFM for jitte, played jitte, knight into Cradle to pay for spell pierce, equip jitte and swing to ace a pyromancer.

City champs is on Sunday and I should be able to play!

[Fatal]

I don’t think a GW 2/3 that fought a creature would be broken.

Baleful strix draws a card and trades in combat.

SFM is a card advantage tutor.

The point would be that it is specific to GW decks and gives us advantage from the 2cc slot. It is a GW hatebear against other small creatures/hate bears.

What about GW 2/2 with a 1/1 token that can be removed to ping? Make it legendary to boot!

That is the type of card we need. We need an actual reason, in addition to Knight, to stay GW and wreck.

That being said...

I am currently on a new list that is straight GW with Cradle and both Sigarda and Batterskull as mana dumps. They are both pretty cool and amazing when you have a small knight.

So far I have had a turn 3 Sigarda and I have played SFM for jitte, played jitte, knight into Cradle to pay for spell pierce, equip jitte and swing to ace a pyromancer.

City champs is on Sunday and I should be able to play!

Strix is far beyond power creep edge, it shouldn't have flying or dt (just look at old one which didn't draw card which is enough for 2 mana - via elvish visionary)

SFM is also on edge which blocks equipment developing (you can't now print some good living weapon and/or overcosted equipment cost because of that little kor girl)

Those cards are for sure on power creep, and dangerous for format, same is true for Leovold, TNN, Griselbrand and.. Shaman. They are strict wrong and overpowered since release - for compare - good design is for example Snapcaster, Pyromancer, Mentor, Ooze, Railler, Tracker or Knight.

Wish you good luck on Sunday - not sure that 2 Bombs are good in MD, maybe some of keep in SB.

[maharis]

If only strix was GG with reach and deathtouch...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[lavafrogg]

Strix is far beyond power creep edge, it shouldn't have flying or dt (just look at old one which didn't draw card which is enough for 2 mana - via elvish visionary)

SFM is also on edge which blocks equipment developing (you can't now print some good living weapon and/or overcosted equipment cost because of that little kor girl)

Those cards are for sure on power creep, and dangerous for format, same is true for Leovold, TNN, Griselbrand and.. Shaman. They are strict wrong and overpowered since release - for compare - good design is for example Snapcaster, Pyromancer, Mentor, Ooze, Railler, Tracker or Knight.

Wish you good luck on Sunday - not sure that 2 Bombs are good in MD, maybe some of keep in SB.

Rallier should just be a GW snapcaster for permanents, without revolt. Tracker is pretty amazing but still doesn't make the cut... Excavator is the best recent card in my opinion, and that still suffers from a direct counter in DRS.

The format is full of overpowered and unfair things, we just need something on the same power level as the rest of the format.

The batterskull and sigarda give the deck something that is "almost" unbeatable in most, non-combo, situations. They both make their respective tutors relevant throughout the game as SFM+Batterskull is a true late game threat while SFM still has early game relevance.

The fact that either can be dumped onto the board at as soon as turn 3 is a big deal as well as most decks do not have answers to one if not both while still keeping the rest of our deck in check.

Current list for this weekend:



Land (24)
1 Bayou
1 Maze of Ith
1 Dryad Arbor
2 Forest
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Karakas
1 Plains
2 Savannah
1 Scrubland
1 Gaea's Cradle
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wasteland
4 Windswept Heath

Creature (25)
4 Deathrite Shaman
1 Gaddock Teeg
4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Mother of Runes
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Scryb Ranger
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons

Artifact (3)
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Batterskull

Instant (4)
4 Swords to Plowshares

Sorcery (4)
4 Green Sun's Zenith

Sideboard (15)
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Blessed Alliance
1 Choke
2 Sanctum Prelate/Containment Priest
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Garruk Relentless
3 Thoughtseize
2 Zealous Persecution



The sideboard is awesome and the only thing I really want main board is an additional Pridemage. I still feel the Maze+Cradle give a lot more flexibility and power in matchups over the combo and the Cradle is a truly dumb and broken card.

[Jonny Tempel]

Rallier should just be a GW snapcaster for permanents, without revolt. Tracker is pretty amazing but still doesn't make the cut... Excavator is the best recent card in my opinion, and that still suffers from a direct counter in DRS.

The format is full of overpowered and unfair things, we just need something on the same power level as the rest of the format.

The batterskull and sigarda give the deck something that is "almost" unbeatable in most, non-combo, situations. They both make their respective tutors relevant throughout the game as SFM+Batterskull is a true late game threat while SFM still has early game relevance.

The fact that either can be dumped onto the board at as soon as turn 3 is a big deal as well as most decks do not have answers to one if not both while still keeping the rest of our deck in check.

Current list for this weekend:




Land (24)
1 Bayou
1 Maze of Ith
1 Dryad Arbor
2 Forest
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Karakas
1 Plains
2 Savannah
1 Scrubland
1 Gaea's Cradle
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wasteland
4 Windswept Heath

Creature (25)
4 Deathrite Shaman
1 Gaddock Teeg
4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Mother of Runes
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Scryb Ranger
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons

Artifact (3)
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Batterskull

Instant (4)
4 Swords to Plowshares

Sorcery (4)
4 Green Sun's Zenith

Sideboard (15)
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Blessed Alliance
1 Choke
2 Sanctum Prelate/Containment Priest
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Garruk Relentless
3 Thoughtseize
2 Zealous Persecution



The sideboard is awesome and the only thing I really want main board is an additional Pridemage. I still feel the Maze+Cradle give a lot more flexibility and power in matchups over the combo and the Cradle is a truly dumb and broken card.

I like your list! How do you feel about the 4 Stonforge + 3 Equipment package?
And no love for Sylvan Library? That card has been amazing for me.

[Fatal]

Rallier should just be a GW snapcaster for permanents, without revolt. Tracker is pretty amazing but still doesn't make the cut... Excavator is the best recent card in my opinion, and that still suffers from a direct counter in DRS.

The format is full of overpowered and unfair things, we just need something on the same power level as the rest of the format.

The batterskull and sigarda give the deck something that is "almost" unbeatable in most, non-combo, situations. They both make their respective tutors relevant throughout the game as SFM+Batterskull is a true late game threat while SFM still has early game relevance.

The fact that either can be dumped onto the board at as soon as turn 3 is a big deal as well as most decks do not have answers to one if not both while still keeping the rest of our deck in check.

Current list for this weekend:



Land (24)
1 Bayou
1 Maze of Ith
1 Dryad Arbor
2 Forest
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Karakas
1 Plains
2 Savannah
1 Scrubland
1 Gaea's Cradle
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wasteland
4 Windswept Heath

Creature (25)
4 Deathrite Shaman
1 Gaddock Teeg
4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Mother of Runes
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Scryb Ranger
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons

Artifact (3)
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Batterskull

Instant (4)
4 Swords to Plowshares

Sorcery (4)
4 Green Sun's Zenith

Sideboard (15)
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Blessed Alliance
1 Choke
2 Sanctum Prelate/Containment Priest
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Garruk Relentless
3 Thoughtseize
2 Zealous Persecution



The sideboard is awesome and the only thing I really want main board is an additional Pridemage. I still feel the Maze+Cradle give a lot more flexibility and power in matchups over the combo and the Cradle is a truly dumb and broken card.

I don't like two things:

- list is very soft to 4c Control (aka Czech Pile), mostly you have no good thread until 5 mana (Sigarda) since they handle equips really fast with K.Commands.

- it doesn't run Sylvan Library and is quite soft on mana sources with two big 5 cmc threads (if you miss land drop in turn 3-4 you never card those cards in world of Push/Bolt/Snapcaster):

compared to other lists: only 4 mana dorks vs 5 in most lists running

only 21 lands (don't count cradle or dryad arbor in matchups against controls), don't know what is your play style maybe you don't use wastelands in this matchups as stone rains (without wastelands its only 17 lands). Little few for your two bombs.

How many times you face situation with skull/sigarda on hand and no mana for them ?
How many 4c Control or Miracles in your meta ?

List is very strong vs fair matchups without artifact removals (full SFM package and Sigarda, Cradle with skull MD).

[lavafrogg]

I love Sylvan Library and have played a ton of Junk lists with 2-3 Library to keep up with blue(it will work one day), but I enjoy the aggro options much more.

Having relevant SFM's the entire game is super cool as SFm+Batterskull is always a pain in the ass to deal with.

I have found that the list has better game against most of the DTB as early SFM's are real threats to most of the format.

City Champs are tomorrow and I will let you know how it is going.

The land and 4 vs 5 mana dorks issue has not been a problem for me thus far.... I pretty much always hated the 5th dork.

The main problem with Sigarda is that Baleful Strix is a real card right now... Excavator is the backup right now.... maybe Thrun.

[timmyod17]

I love Sylvan Library and have played a ton of Junk lists with 2-3 Library to keep up with blue(it will work one day), but I enjoy the aggro options much more.

Having relevant SFM's the entire game is super cool as SFm+Batterskull is always a pain in the ass to deal with.

I have found that the list has better game against most of the DTB as early SFM's are real threats to most of the format.

City Champs are tomorrow and I will let you know how it is going.

The land and 4 vs 5 mana dorks issue has not been a problem for me thus far.... I pretty much always hated the 5th dork.

The main problem with Sigarda is that Baleful Strix is a real card right now... Excavator is the backup right now.... maybe Thrun.

I love Library too. It's not as good as it used to be, though, with all the 4c Pile / Goodstuff decks running around as Leovold shuts down Library. Have always wondered about running a second (1 MD / 1 SB) like the list that finished 2nd in the recent SCG Classic.

Also down on Sigarda due to Baleful Strix being everywhere. But Thrun is a good idea. Thrun with Karakas backup seems really hard for any fair deck to beat, honestly. If only he had some form of evasion it would be a no-brainer.

Personally I think any Maverick list without Excavator is totally wrong. At worst it's a creature that provides some immediate value. But it's often just a free win as a tutorable Wasteland + Crucible lock.

For a long time I only ran 4 mana creatures. I know most lists run 5, but I think 4 is totally fine if your curve tops out at 3 (and max of 5-6 total 3-drops). GSZ into Arbor is basically mana dork #5 anyway.

[lavafrogg]

I love Library too. It's not as good as it used to be, though, with all the 4c Pile / Goodstuff decks running around as Leovold shuts down Library. Have always wondered about running a second (1 MD / 1 SB) like the list that finished 2nd in the recent SCG Classic.

Also down on Sigarda due to Baleful Strix being everywhere. But Thrun is a good idea. Thrun with Karakas backup seems really hard for any fair deck to beat, honestly. If only he had some form of evasion it would be a no-brainer.

Personally I think any Maverick list without Excavator is totally wrong. At worst it's a creature that provides some immediate value. But it's often just a free win as a tutorable Wasteland + Crucible lock.

For a long time I only ran 4 mana creatures. I know most lists run 5, but I think 4 is totally fine if your curve tops out at 3 (and max of 5-6 total 3-drops). GSZ into Arbor is basically mana dork #5 anyway.

In what matchups does excavator help in which you were not already ahead? I understand that she shuts the door and locks out decks that are susceptible to wastelocks and she also has minimal value against the current boogeyman of the format.

Also asking: how does your match against Pile usually go?

[timmyod17]

In what matchups does excavator help in which you were not already ahead? I understand that she shuts the door and locks out decks that are susceptible to wastelocks and she also has minimal value against the current boogeyman of the format.

Also asking: how does your match against Pile usually go?

It has applications beyond just locking an opponent out of the game with Wasteland. I've extended games I otherwise would have lost by infinitely recurring Dryad Arbor to chump block a Gurmag Angler until I could draw what I needed to win. I've overwhelmed Miracles with card advantage by recurring Horizon Canopy after they spent their StP's going after Teeg and Leovold and Knight. In situations where I'm facing an opposing DRS I've been able to deny the opponent mana by emptying my graveyard of lands. I've re-bought the Stage/Depths combo to win an otherwise unwinnable game. Just replaying a fetch from the graveyard is basically equivalent to drawing a card, and I don't think anyone playing the deck would argue with the addition of some card advantage.


Regarding Pile: I find the matchup depends on the build I'm facing. As Pile got progressively greedier I think the matchup improved by focusing on the mana denial plan (prioritize killing DRS, stick a Thalia, cut them off a color) and prioritizing sticking non-creature permanents (mainly Choke and Sylvan Library). At one point I think I beat Noah Walker like 4 consecutive times last year when he was still running Pile at SCG and TJ events. Excavator incidentally plays really well into that game plan.

However, more recently the matchup has gotten difficult. These days most lists are running 2 basics and the matchup is WAY harder if they have a few basics and are able to keep a DRS in play. Even if you land a choke, most lists even have a Badlands and Bayou so it isn't an instant win. I'd say we're currently the underdog against Pile.

If your goal is to beat Pile, I'd recommend going for Punishing Maverick. I feel really favored when I've played Punishing vs Pile. If you are smart and don't let your P-fires get exiled and play around Surgical post-board you just inexorably grind them out.

[lavafrogg]

It has applications beyond just locking an opponent out of the game with Wasteland. I've extended games I otherwise would have lost by infinitely recurring Dryad Arbor to chump block a Gurmag Angler until I could draw what I needed to win. I've overwhelmed Miracles with card advantage by recurring Horizon Canopy after they spent their StP's going after Teeg and Leovold and Knight. In situations where I'm facing an opposing DRS I've been able to deny the opponent mana by emptying my graveyard of lands. I've re-bought the Stage/Depths combo to win an otherwise unwinnable game. Just replaying a fetch from the graveyard is basically equivalent to drawing a card, and I don't think anyone playing the deck would argue with the addition of some card advantage.


Regarding Pile: I find the matchup depends on the build I'm facing. As Pile got progressively greedier I think the matchup improved by focusing on the mana denial plan (prioritize killing DRS, stick a Thalia, cut them off a color) and prioritizing sticking non-creature permanents (mainly Choke and Sylvan Library). At one point I think I beat Noah Walker like 4 consecutive times last year when he was still running Pile at SCG and TJ events. Excavator incidentally plays really well into that game plan.

However, more recently the matchup has gotten difficult. These days most lists are running 2 basics and the matchup is WAY harder if they have a few basics and are able to keep a DRS in play. Even if you land a choke, most lists even have a Badlands and Bayou so it isn't an instant win. I'd say we're currently the underdog against Pile.

If your goal is to beat Pile, I'd recommend going for Punishing Maverick. I feel really favored when I've played Punishing vs Pile. If you are smart and don't let your P-fires get exiled and play around Surgical post-board you just inexorably grind them out.


Thank you for the response. I see you are playing 4c with Leovold(3.5 color?) and I imagine that I am playing a more aggressive 2 color mainboard with black for the SB only.

One of the big reasons that I like Sigarda is that they have to have strix once she is on the board. Strix is easily handled in most circumstances ie an active Jitte/Sword, a plow, Mom etc and she also is untouchable in any non-strix is a pain for Miracles to deal with as she can be Zenithed for again post Terminus.

All of these scenarios are hypohetical and variable in this situation anyway. I am currently testing and loving the Sigarda in the randomness that is the legacy format and Excavator is a very good card that deserves consideration. (It was a page or two ago where I suggested that Tracker/Excavator/Rotation should replace knight in the near future)

Also: I have payed Punishing Maverick and Aggro Loam, the fires are good, but I prefer the 4x Thalia against the field as well as arguably agains Pile.

[Hanni]

I really like Titania, Protector of Argoth in this sort of deck. As a finisher, it can easily close a game out, and it generates value even if the opponent can deal with it immediately. If the opponent cannot deal with it right away, you just bury them. It has so much synergy with Knight, Excavator, and Sylvan Safekeeper.

Is there any reason people aren't playing this card that I am not aware of?

[pettdan]

I really like Titania, Protector of Argoth in this sort of deck. As a finisher, it can easily close a game out, and it generates value even if the opponent can deal with it immediately. If the opponent cannot deal with it right away, you just bury them. It has so much synergy with Knight, Excavator, and Sylvan Safekeeper.

Is there any reason people aren't playing this card that I am not aware of?

So I didn't play Titania for a while, since I tested some different builds and didn't play that much Maverick lately. However, I've been playing Titania in Maverick about since she was released and I also like her a lot. I bring it up here once every couple of months when people start discussing 4- and 5-drops. I think usually it comes up that people worry that it will die to a Lightning Bolt. Also it requires a Gaea's Cradle, but that should be available for most Maverick players anyway. I'm guessing people just don't try it and don't realize how good it is. Another thing is of course that being a 5-drop comes with some cost, it's harder to play so in some games it will be stuck in your hand doing nothing. Lists with a mana curve stopping at 3 were doing quite well about a year ago so maybe the 5-drop seemed unnecessary (they probably still do, even if planeswalkers seem even better now than then, but it was very apparent at the time).

[Hanni]

So I didn't play Titania for a while, since I tested some different builds and didn't play that much Maverick lately. However, I've been playing Titania in Maverick about since she was released and I also like her a lot. I bring it up here once every couple of months when people start discussing 4- and 5-drops. I think usually it comes up that people worry that it will die to a Lightning Bolt. Also it requires a Gaea's Cradle, but that should be available for most Maverick players anyway. I'm guessing people just don't try it and don't realize how good it is. Another thing is of course that being a 5-drop comes with some cost, it's harder to play so in some games it will be stuck in your hand doing nothing. Lists with a mana curve stopping at 3 were doing quite well about a year ago so maybe the 5-drop seemed unnecessary.

I think Ramunap Excavator changes that dynamic though. It makes sense to stop at 3cc thteats when you intend to consume your land drops with Knight to Wasteland the opponent multiple times. However, between the mana dorks and a Crucible with legs, casting a 5cc threat (or GSZ for 6) doesn't seem unreasonable anymore, and we're only talking about a 1-of finisher here. It's obviously overkill against a deck like Grixis Delver, but it seems incredibly powerful against all of the midrange decks.

The Lightning Bolt argument is legit, but if you suspect a Bolt, then you wait to set it up better, i.e an active Mom or Knight, an extra fetchland on the table, etc.

Sigarda dodges Bolt, but can't swing past a Baleful Strix.

Making any army of 5/3 tokens is just so powerful and easy to do with this deck, though...

[pettdan]

I think Ramunap Excavator changes that dynamic though. It makes sense to stop at 3cc thteats when you intend to consume your land drops with Knight to Wasteland the opponent multiple times. However, between the mana dorks and a Crucible with legs, casting a 5cc threat (or GSZ for 6) doesn't seem unreasonable anymore, and we're only talking about a 1-of finisher here. It's obviously overkill against a deck like Grixis Delver, but it seems incredibly powerful against all of the midrange decks.

I think I've been casting Titania reliably without Ramunap Excavator, but you are right, Excavator makes it easier to hit 5 mana in a game.

I wouldn't say that Titania is overkill vs Grixis Delver. They go for Pyromancer going wide or TNN and you can't always race that, a Titania races all of these very well. But I sure agree that she is even better vs the midrange decks.


The Lightning Bolt argument is legit, but if you suspect a Bolt, then you wait to set it up better, i.e an active Mom or Knight, an extra fetchland on the table, etc.

I don't personally care much about the Lightning Bolt argument, I don't remember having ever had Titania Lightning Bolted, buuut maybe I just forget. There's always a Mother or Knight around, or they were around and were bolted. There are many must-bolts in this deck.


Sigarda dodges Bolt, but can't swing past a Baleful Strix.

Making any army of 5/3 tokens is just so powerful and easy to do with this deck, though...

Yeah, I fully agree with the undesirable Sigarda vs Strix battle, and your opinion of Titania.

Oh, did I forgot something, there is also the issue of choosing Depths over Titania (or Sigarda). An advantage of Depths is that you can resolve it with less exposure on the stack (to counterspells, I mean).

One more thing, I'm just presenting my opinion, most others here seem to be of other opinions. :)

[menloe]

It has applications beyond just locking an opponent out of the game with Wasteland. I've extended games I otherwise would have lost by infinitely recurring Dryad Arbor to chump block a Gurmag Angler until I could draw what I needed to win. I've overwhelmed Miracles with card advantage by recurring Horizon Canopy after they spent their StP's going after Teeg and Leovold and Knight. In situations where I'm facing an opposing DRS I've been able to deny the opponent mana by emptying my graveyard of lands. I've re-bought the Stage/Depths combo to win an otherwise unwinnable game. Just replaying a fetch from the graveyard is basically equivalent to drawing a card, and I don't think anyone playing the deck would argue with the addition of some card advantage.


Regarding Pile: I find the matchup depends on the build I'm facing. As Pile got progressively greedier I think the matchup improved by focusing on the mana denial plan (prioritize killing DRS, stick a Thalia, cut them off a color) and prioritizing sticking non-creature permanents (mainly Choke and Sylvan Library). At one point I think I beat Noah Walker like 4 consecutive times last year when he was still running Pile at SCG and TJ events. Excavator incidentally plays really well into that game plan.

However, more recently the matchup has gotten difficult. These days most lists are running 2 basics and the matchup is WAY harder if they have a few basics and are able to keep a DRS in play. Even if you land a choke, most lists even have a Badlands and Bayou so it isn't an instant win. I'd say we're currently the underdog against Pile.

If your goal is to beat Pile, I'd recommend going for Punishing Maverick. I feel really favored when I've played Punishing vs Pile. If you are smart and don't let your P-fires get exiled and play around Surgical post-board you just inexorably grind them out.

All of what you say about Excavator is exactly right. The snake is extremely versatile and has a great many applications during a game - even when you are far behind and it seems especially in grindy mid-range mirrors.

To illustrate: Last night I had a game where I was dead in the next turn to two flipped Delvers and a summoning-sick Lavamancer (w/ one Volc to activate). I had an active KotR, a freshly played Excavator, two irrelevant creatures, and two lands. My hand was Heath and a Second KotR and I was at four life.

The Excavator let me replay Wasteland to get my opponent off Lavamancer and keep my KotR untapped to grab Maze of Ith and continue playing at one life. I was still beyond fucked at this point and needed to draw STP or Jitte to survive through the next turn and potentially cobble together a win. Jitte was better for obvious reasons, but also needed two additional lands to be useful (I don’t have Cradle online). This was a problem because you can’t draw multiple cards in a turn under normal circumstance… Except I could replay a land with Excavator, giving me exactly enough land with a KotR activation to stay alive and potentially steal a win.

I happened to draw the Jitte, replayed a land from the yard, fetched a land with KotR, equipped Jitte to my now relevant Teeg-father, swung, got counters, killed one Delver (next turn after waiting for opponent to attack), and went on to win the game by accruing Jitte counters and killing my opponent’s creatures/gaining life.

Excavator did three very important things in this match: (1) let me Wasteland without activating my woefully overburdened KotR allowing KotR to do something else; (2) let me “draw” two cards in a turn - my normal top deck and a land from the yard; and, (3), let me ramp and fix in the late game while operating as a (albeit limited) card advantage and card selection engine (drawing a land of my choice/the exact right land every turn in addition to my normal draw). So good, so choice.

I don’t think there was any other combination of cards that would have won this game barring some major misplays by my opponent. While this is a special case where the sequence of the game lined up perfectly for Excavator to shine, any of the possible modes are good in a game of slight margins.

[lavafrogg]

From the discussion last week about cards we need: holy shit are all of the “fight another creature” cards overcosted.

In my search I decided that a 5/5 for 2GG that activates to fight would be perfect but omg hold limited crap.

There is a kicker one in the new set that would cost 4GGG to fight something on cast and a legendary that would get monstrous and fight.

Come on blizz.

[hovercraft]

From the discussion last week about cards we need: holy shit are all of the “fight another creature” cards overcosted.

In my search I decided that a 5/5 for 2GG that activates to fight would be perfect but omg hold limited crap.

There is a kicker one in the new set that would cost 4GGG to fight something on cast and a legendary that would get monstrous and fight.

Come on blizz.

Not quite a fight card, but what about Polukranos?
http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=373549

[Skizz]

if you are searching for a fightstick you could try Ulvenwald Tracker

http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=340720http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=340720http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=340720

i used him when avacyn restored came out.... over all not impressive but a cheap enabler

[menloe]

All this talk about fighting has me thinking about Dromoka's Command out of the sideboard. I know y'all are talking about a fight effect with legs so it's not strictly relevant, but low cost modal spells are usually shit hot.

[lavafrogg]

The big unspellable green legend is a good idea for late game grinds against fair decks...the fact that you can protect him with Karakas is a big deal, but he doesn’t get around baleful strix....

Arashi, the Sky Asunder is a good option as it locks out the skies for the rest of the game.

On a separate note went 3-0 tonight in a local.

2-0 Infect
2-1 Grixis Delver
2-1 Burn

Held on in the burn matchup at 1 when he locked himself under a Thalia when I had the Blessed Alliance to stay alive. Gaea’s Cradle was broken, as was the Maze against all 3 matchups. I searched up the Cradle to Scooze the Delver player out of the game and to cast and equip a Jitte against a tapped out Grixis player to swing and clear his board(he had grudge in the yard).

Used Batterskull against Grixis and Burn as the Grixis player was out of removal and SFM>Batterskull was huge.

Didn’t get anything out of the Sigarda tonight, would have been more helpful as an Excavator.

Edit.... OMFG why isn’t Master of the Wild Hunt legendary?!? That would have been almost perfect.

Edit 2 ....

Went 2-1 tonight.

Beating Grixis Delver 2-1

Losing to Grixis Delver 0-2

Beating Omni-Show 2-1

Fun night, what is everyone’s sideboard advise against Grixis?

I feel like I have too many good cards and not enough of a plan.

[Dreadnaught33]

hey guys sorry i posted this in discord too but still looking for answers....

I've been testing both, but do you all think punishing or abzan would be better for a team trios event? Punishing feels like im hedging for lots of delver but certainly losing points to combo game one and less consistent mana. I've talked to @Thunderknight a bit about this but i'd love any feedback if theres anybody in here who has some insight.

[Dan Pyre]

From the discussion last week about cards we need: holy shit are all of the “fight another creature” cards overcosted.

In my search I decided that a 5/5 for 2GG that activates to fight would be perfect but omg hold limited crap.

There is a kicker one in the new set that would cost 4GGG to fight something on cast and a legendary that would get monstrous and fight.

Come on blizz.
Not a Maverick Player BUT -

What about Dromoka's Command? At two mana you're overpaying for the fight effect but you always get an additional benefit:

+1/+1 counter to beef up/win a fight or combat trick
Prevent damage from a Bolt or Pyroclasm effect
Sac an enchantment is narrow but a few come to mind (Blood Moon, Sneak Attack, Rest in Peace, Sylvan Library, Omniscience if their hand is bad. Does Miracles still play a Keranos?)

[lavafrogg]

hey guys sorry i posted this in discord too but still looking for answers....

I've been testing both, but do you all think punishing or abzan would be better for a team trios event? Punishing feels like im hedging for lots of delver but certainly losing points to combo game one and less consistent mana. I've talked to @Thunderknight a bit about this but i'd love any feedback if theres anybody in here who has some insight.

From personal experience if you are playing Punishing Fires, just play Aggro Loam as you need a combo hoser game one and paying 3 for fires feels terrible.

About the fight mechanic, I have 1 creature slot open for a GSZ target and cannot settle on a card I like and in that search I realized how close all of the fight cards are to being good.... but actually end up as total trash.

I am between the 3rd pridemage, Sigarda and Ranumap Excavator. If there was actually a good fight creature it would also be in consideration.

[menloe]

hey guys sorry i posted this in discord too but still looking for answers....

I've been testing both, but do you all think punishing or abzan would be better for a team trios event? Punishing feels like im hedging for lots of delver but certainly losing points to combo game one and less consistent mana. I've talked to @Thunderknight a bit about this but i'd love any feedback if theres anybody in here who has some insight.

I'd play Abzan for the mana consistency and combo concerns. Delver is beatable without Punishing Fire.

Also I agree with lavafrogg RE: paying three for P-Fires. I'd rather play Thalias main without the nonbo.

[lavafrogg]

I'd play Abzan for the mana consistency and combo concerns. Delver is beatable without Punishing Fire.

Also I agree with lavafrogg RE: paying three for P-Fires. I'd rather play Thalias main without the nonbo.

I usually play Aggro Loam or Maverick.... and it depends on Thalia vs Chalice. I think the mana consistency of GW and the power of DRS is where I want to be right now.

[Aten]

Can you guys talk a little bit about Choke in the sideboard of Maverick (GW version)? How good is it in the meta right now? It seems too slow vs Delver and Pile has DRS+Decay, is it still devastating enough vs them to warrant slots though? I know it's a grand slam against Miracles but just wondering if it may be better to play some bomb card in that slot instead like a planeswalker, or Sigarda etc.

[Rascalyote]

Can you guys talk a little bit about Choke in the sideboard of Maverick (GW version)? How good is it in the meta right now? It seems too slow vs Delver and Pile has DRS+Decay, is it still devastating enough vs them to warrant slots though? I know it's a grand slam against Miracles but just wondering if it may be better to play some bomb card in that slot instead like a planeswalker, or Sigarda etc.

I was wondering the same thing about walkers vs chokes. I had Liliana before but she doesn't seem to do quite enough against miracles and she's hard to cast so I chose to play choke instead of her or Sigarda and just play Dark Depths in my main deck to deal with pile. Not sure if Gideon/Elspeth/Garruk would be better though, I'm still fond of Elspeth as she jumps over TNN and just kills our miracles opponent the fastest or murders Jace without opening herself up to plow.

[lavafrogg]

I was wondering the same thing about walkers vs chokes. I had Liliana before but she doesn't seem to do quite enough against miracles and she's hard to cast so I chose to play choke instead of her or Sigarda and just play Dark Depths in my main deck to deal with pile. Not sure if Gideon/Elspeth/Garruk would be better though, I'm still fond of Elspeth as she jumps over TNN and just kills our miracles opponent the fastest or murders Jace without opening herself up to plow.

Choke is still really good. Turning all of their lands into lotus petals is pretty savage and can be game winning on its own. The problem is that most of the decks running Choke have ways to deal with it, but that can be said about any card.

I personally love Choke over the planeswalkers because it can come in against combo decks, better than nothing in most situations, especially Show and Tell. I will always prefer to have cards with uses against unfair decks over the fair ones as we do a decent job against fair decks as it is. Therefore imho Choke>planeswalkers

[pettdan]

I agree with Lavafrogg, just want to add that Choke fits with the Maverick gameplan and has some synergy with Thalia, Wastelands and KotR's.

[Fatal]

Choke vs Walkers:
Does your meta have more Miracles then Czech Pile+ BUG Control? If yes run Choke.

End of the story.

[menloe]

I feel like there's room enough in every sideboard for at least one Choke. Never leave home without it.

[johnyvolta]

Hi guys,

I have one sideboard slot free for a planeswalker (mainly to combat Miracles and Czech Pile). Which one do you prefer? Garruk Relentless or Gideon, Ally of Zendikar? (I play Cradle, so Garruk is way easier on the manabase).

Thanks for any input!

[pettdan]

@Johnyvolta: I'm not sure if I'm the best person to answer as I've rarely had success with any of the planeswalkers. Vs Pile Garruk has the risk of getting Lightning Bolted, at least Gideon comes with 4 loyalty. Gideon can also boost your team so you can survive the Marsh Casualties you could expect from Pile, and can offer a quicker clock if you have protection from Diabolic Edict. So it seems to me like Gideon should be better. However, for fighting blue control decks I've switched from planeswalkers to Bitterblossom like 3 years ago and still think it's the better choice, and it got much better with the popularity of Pile (and Lands and Turbo Depths). But it also didn't work out that great for me. But I would go for a Bitterblossom, it doesn't die to Lightning Bolt or True-Name Nemesis.

[Mr. Safety]

From personal experience if you are playing Punishing Fires, just play Aggro Loam as you need a combo hoser game one and paying 3 for fires feels terrible.

About the fight mechanic, I have 1 creature slot open for a GSZ target and cannot settle on a card I like and in that search I realized how close all of the fight cards are to being good.... but actually end up as total trash.

I am between the 3rd pridemage, Sigarda and Ranumap Excavator. If there was actually a good fight creature it would also be in consideration.

Ulvenwald Tracker ?

[lavafrogg]

Ulvenwald Tracker ?

This was a rant in which there is no playable fight creature or even a fight creature that isn’t just limited garbage.

GG for a 2/3 that fights.

2GG for a 5/5 that has an ability that fights.

Tracker is fine, but doesn’t really solve any problems.

There is a problem with Wizards color wheel when green doesn’t have the best creatures, everything good is getting spread across other colors.

[Zulabnar]

This was a rant in which there is no playable fight creature or even a fight creature that isn’t just limited garbage.

There is a problem with Wizards color wheel when green doesn’t have the best creatures, everything good is getting spread across other colors.

steel leaf champion could be usefull?

[Fatal]

steel leaf champion could be usefull?

Already discussed. Many other cards are better, with less restrictive cost.

Tracker isn't bad but it slow, mana hungry and it require one more creature to work, I would rather use Granger if you have red splash to fight pesky X/1 creatures.

[menloe]

Three copies of Maverick in the top 16 of the ATL Legacy Classic (called Abzan Deathblade here: https://www.mtggoldfish.com/tournament/scg-legacy-classic-atlanta-2018-04-29#paper.) Two in the top 8, one Punishing one Leo. Two Punishing lists. Well done lads.

[Mr. Safety]

What's the reasoning behind no Thalia's in the Punishing Maverick list? Is it too mana intensive to maintain the engine alongside Thalia?

[Zulabnar]

What's the reasoning behind no Thalia's in the Punishing Maverick list? Is it too mana intensive to maintain the engine alongside Thalia?

Of course it is

also finding slots for 4 thalia and 3 p.fire is not easy.


I'm thinking about collected company to play, a couple of this instead of 1 sigarda\big boy and 1 oze\ or something else

I think is a great card that do a very interesting effect

Any thoughts about?

[menloe]

What's the reasoning behind no Thalia's in the Punishing Maverick list? Is it too mana intensive to maintain the engine alongside Thalia?

Ah shit I miscounted the number of Punishing lists (combination of wishful thinking and my brain is mush this AM due to living the High Life.) RIP.

Generally yes per Zulabnar's response. However, this isn't the only way to play Punishing. I recall a number of the Pun Mav stalwarts (particularly strassbaw and serpahix) have played Thalia in the sideboard. I think you're usually going to be doing a straight swap in games 2 and 3 with that plan when it matters so it's not too onerous.

I'm pretty sure there were some main deck Thalia's last year too following the mongoose hours kids' hype post. They cut down on lands to make room if I am not mistaken.

[Mr. Safety]

Ah shit I miscounted the number of Punishing lists (combination of wishful thinking and my brain is mush this AM due to living the High Life.) RIP.

Generally yes per Zulabnar's response. However, this isn't the only way to play Punishing. I recall a number of the Pun Mav stalwarts (particularly strassbaw and serpahix) have played Thalia in the sideboard. I think you're usually going to be doing a straight swap in games 2 and 3 with that plan when it matters so it's not too onerous.

I'm pretty sure there were some main deck Thalia's last year too following the mongoose hours kids' hype post. They cut down on lands to make room if I am not mistaken.

This was really what I was driving at. I was surprised to see no Thalias in the 75 at all. Isn't Thalia one of the few ways to really have chances against combo decks though?

[menloe]

This was really what I was driving at. I was surprised to see no Thalias in the 75 at all. Isn't Thalia one of the few ways to really have chances against combo decks though?

She definitely helps. The Teegs, Cannonists, and Crops+Bog are all good, but I'd still feel pretty exposed without c. three Thalias. Too good not to play, these results not withstanding.

[Seraphix]

This was really what I was driving at. I was surprised to see no Thalias in the 75 at all. Isn't Thalia one of the few ways to really have chances against combo decks though?

Read the primer my friend :)


Of course it is

also finding slots for 4 thalia and 3 p.fire is not easy.


I'm thinking about collected company to play, a couple of this instead of 1 sigarda\big boy and 1 oze\ or something else

I think is a great card that do a very interesting effect

Any thoughts about?

Collected Company can be powerful, but is probably too high variance. If you try it, let us know how it goes.

[lavafrogg]

Has anyone tested the full set of Sanctum Prelate in the board against blue.dec?

One is pretty annoying, set at 1 obvi, but in multiples(with mom support) is absolutely dumb.

I just finished a game with a mom, prelate at 1 and prelate at 3, against Pile that was pretty gross.

Obviously this was a corner game but I have always been impressed by Prelate in most matchups.

[Zulabnar]

Read the primer my friend :)



Collected Company can be powerful, but is probably too high variance. If you try it, let us know how it goes.

First impressions.
Yesterday night with some friends

against landstill\delver deck i play it twice in 6 games (1-1 pre side 2-1 in my favour post side), it gives me victory in a post side match after a long board controlling by my oppo with bolt\stifle\waste\submerge i reveal 2 kotr and win.

Against BUG control was countered every single time. 0-2 preside 2-2 post side.

4cc is a huge price, i always play it with Cradle on the table.

[lavafrogg]

As powerful as company is, what matchups do you feel that we have the time to wait for a 4cc instant that may or may not put the boardstate in our favor?

It would be fun to play 3 eternal witness and 4 company in a GW deck, no Thalia obvi, and just grind out companies until the control deck was out of removal and counters... but that is a different deck.

Thalia essentially makes company unplayable and I would never play Conpany over Thalia.

[1esha]

Hey!

I am on GWb + combo build currently. My sb is:

2 surgical
3 thoughtseize
1 abrupt decay
2 zealous persecution
2 gideon
1 containment priest
1 pithing needle
3 ethersworn canonist

What is you vision of sb plan for:
* dnt. Do we need to bring thoughtseizes?
* elves. Do we need to bring thoughtseizes?
* infect. Do we need to bring canonists? Do we want to keep thalias? I have no idea what is the proper plan here. I will bring in needle, decay and persecution for sure.
* dragon stompy. Should we keep thalia on a play?
* miracles. What we would like to side out?

[menloe]

Hey!

I am on GWb + combo build currently. My sb is:

2 surgical
3 thoughtseize
1 abrupt decay
2 zealous persecution
2 gideon
1 containment priest
1 pithing needle
3 ethersworn canonist

What is you vision of sb plan for:
* dnt. Do we need to bring thoughtseizes?
* elves. Do we need to bring thoughtseizes?
* infect. Do we need to bring canonists? Do we want to keep thalias? I have no idea what is the proper plan here. I will bring in needle, decay and persecution for sure.
* dragon stompy. Should we keep thalia on a play?
* miracles. What we would like to side out?

I've never brought in Thoughtseize against DNT or Elves and I have a pretty good record against both decks. I'm sure they're good and worth side boarding in, I just never felt like I needed them to win. I don't have anything special to offer RE: DNT since I think that's an eminently winnable match, but my Elves sideboard plan has tended to favor permanent-based hate like Canonist, Containment Priest, and Teeg (that's in addition to one main deck Teeg, THC, and Aven Mindcensor, all of which are great against Elves.) I also bring in ZP and, in the rare instances that I include them in my sideboard, Deluge. My gut is your Thoughtseizes will be overtaxed.

Canonists are good against Infect and I would bring them in. Thalias are good to keep in too. Another card to consider is Blessed Alliance, since they can't counter it with a protection spell and they're often swinging in with just the one fucker. Blessed Alliance is a beautiful card in the match up.

Have to know what else is in your main deck for the other two. I know I've been successful against Dragon Stompy, but I have no recollection of what I did to beat them. Also I might just be playing bad Stompy players.

[1esha]

I've never brought in Thoughtseize against DNT or Elves and I have a pretty good record against both decks. I'm sure they're good and worth side boarding in, I just never felt like I needed them to win. I don't have anything special to offer RE: DNT since I think that's an eminently winnable match, but my Elves sideboard plan has tended to favor permanent-based hate like Canonist, Containment Priest, and Teeg (that's in addition to one main deck Teeg, THC, and Aven Mindcensor, all of which are great against Elves.) I also bring in ZP and, in the rare instances that I include them in my sideboard, Deluge. My gut is your Thoughtseizes will be overtaxed.

Canonists are good against Infect and I would bring them in. Thalias are good to keep in too. Another card to consider is Blessed Alliance, since they can't counter it with a protection spell and they're often swinging in with just the one fucker. Blessed Alliance is a beautiful card in the match up.

Have to know what else is in your main deck for the other two. I know I've been successful against Dragon Stompy, but I have no recollection of what I did to beat them. Also I might just be playing bad Stompy players.

I feel the same about elves and DNT. My record against DNT is good, but elves matchup is a disaster. Turn 2 glimpse with cradle is very common. What is your typical keepable hand after sb? How many removals/hatebeards?

Regarding to two last matchups, here it is my md:

24 LANDS
1 Bayou
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Dark Depths
1 Dryad Arbor
2 Forest
1 Karakas
1 Marsh Flats
1 Plains
2 Savannah
1 Scrubland
1 Thespian's Stage
3 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wasteland
4 Windswept Heath
25 CREATURES
1 Birds of Paradise
4 Deathrite Shaman
1 Gaddock Teeg
4 Knight of the Reliquary
3 Mother of Runes
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Ramunap Excavator
1 Renegade Rallier
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Scryb Ranger
2 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Sylvan Safekeeper
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
9 INSTANTS and SORC.
1 Abrupt Decay
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 OTHER SPELLS
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Sylvan Library
1 Umezawa's Jitte

[lavafrogg]

I feel the same about elves and DNT. My record against DNT is good, but elves matchup is a disaster. Turn 2 glimpse with cradle is very common. What is your typical keepable hand after sb? How many removals/hatebeards?

Regarding to two last matchups, here it is my md:

24 LANDS
1 Bayou
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Dark Depths
1 Dryad Arbor
2 Forest
1 Karakas
1 Marsh Flats
1 Plains
2 Savannah
1 Scrubland
1 Thespian's Stage
3 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wasteland
4 Windswept Heath
25 CREATURES
1 Birds of Paradise
4 Deathrite Shaman
1 Gaddock Teeg
4 Knight of the Reliquary
3 Mother of Runes
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Ramunap Excavator
1 Renegade Rallier
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Scryb Ranger
2 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Sylvan Safekeeper
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
9 INSTANTS and SORC.
1 Abrupt Decay
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 OTHER SPELLS
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Sylvan Library
1 Umezawa's Jitte

If you want to beat elves you need to do a few things, and get lucky.

First, you need them to be on the natural order plan, and you have the early Teeg.

Thoughtsieze, ZP, decay, Prelate, containment priest, canonist can all come in. Knight, Ranumap, Tracker, Ooze, Batterskull, Depths, Stage can all come out as they are too slow.

You need to get mom and multiple hatebears, an active jitte/sword, or double ZP to win... everything else just buys time.

Neither of you are running blue so counters aren’t a concern so you have to mulligan into ways to stop them from winning.

[timmyod17]

Hey!

I am on GWb + combo build currently. My sb is:

2 surgical
3 thoughtseize
1 abrupt decay
2 zealous persecution
2 gideon
1 containment priest
1 pithing needle
3 ethersworn canonist

What is you vision of sb plan for:
* dnt. Do we need to bring thoughtseizes?
* elves. Do we need to bring thoughtseizes?
* infect. Do we need to bring canonists? Do we want to keep thalias? I have no idea what is the proper plan here. I will bring in needle, decay and persecution for sure.
* dragon stompy. Should we keep thalia on a play?
* miracles. What we would like to side out?


DNT - this is a pretty favorable matchup. I'd want removal (Decay is good, ZP is excellent), as well as a Needle as it has plenty of targets. Containment Priest is decent but not great to sometimes disrupt a vial activation. There's nothing in their deck that we can't beat, so I would not bring in Thoughtseize. Thalias and Teeg are easy cuts in this matchup.

Elves - Contrary to a poster above, I find Elves to be miserable. I'm in favor of Thoughtseize here as the cards that beat us are Glimpse, Natural Order, and occasionally GSZ. Otherwise their deck is a pile of little dudes and our creatures are superior. You also want all your removal (Decay is good, ZP is excellent). Canonist is also excellent - though they will bring in their own decays. Needle is decent as it shuts off Symbiote, and the Symbiote-Visionary combo is a way they can just win by out-valuing us. Containment Priest is also decent here. Take out your Thalias for sure. I usually also cut QPM, Ooze, maybe a KotR or two, Excavator, and non-Jitte equips.

Infect - Canonist shines here. It makes it basically impossible for infect to insta-kill you. Again ZP and Decay are excellent. I like Thoughtseize here, especially if I can snag their only creature on the play, for instance. Needle is also decent as it can name Inkmoth Nexus. I'd echo a recommendation for Blessed Alliance in this matchup.

Dragon Stompy - I like Thalia here, and definitely better on the play than the draw.

Miracles - there are probably many opinions on this one. Your sideboard is a bit different from mine (which features Choke, Garruk, Sanctum Prelates, etc). I think Surgical is reasonable vs Miracles. Gideon should come in for sure as well. Otherwise, you could maybe bring in Canonists (shuts down Snapcasters and cantrip-heavy draws) and possibly Needle for stuff like Azcanta or Jace. Decay isn't bad as a catch-all answer. Personally, I cut 4 StP's, Gaea's Cradle, 1 DRS, 1 Thalia, and 1-2 Knights and bring in Chokes, Garruk, 2 Prelates, another equip, and surgicals.

[lavafrogg]

You also need to understand that for the most part: straight GW with no midrange flex spots will be better against combo decks and more 3+ color lists with the combo and multiple non knight 3 drops will be better at grinding out wins.

I primarily play straight GW and will therefore have better combo matchups due to better game 1 matchups.

[Rascalyote]

Back to back 4-0's at my weekly legacy with Miranda Keiths list having Stage Depths in place of Cradle Maze, and week 2 -1 Tracker, -1 SFM, +2 Shalai in the main (yes I realize how ridiculous 1 SFM looks on paper) as well as -1 Sigarda, -1 Walker +1 Thoughtseize +1 Deluge in the board. Also thinking of putting the extra Teeg back in the SB over a canonist so my zeniths can still go get a hatebear after they kill the first Teeg.

Shalai was a house, vs hypergenesis I put her in then died vs Elesh norn, emrakul, griselbrand + Omni :^). But other than that card was nuts, was fine vs miracles even though it's one of the matchups the card is weaker against, a 3/4 flyer that's protected with Karakas is ok, opponent had a turn where I had Karakas, Thalia and Shalai in play and he wanted to play a bunch of cards so he tries to get thalia off the table for a turn with a plow but she has hexproof and if he plows Shalai I just pick her up and replay her on my turn.

Mom + Shalai locked out quite a few plays/decks, add in scryb Ranger and it was pretty nutty, got to Gavony Township kill as well.

Forget my matchups last week but this week was

Rd 1 Hypergenesis
Rd 2 Alluren (Shalai is pretty dece against this deck)
Rd 3 Miracles
Rd 4 ANT

So wasn't a walk in the park =p

[menloe]

DNT - this is a pretty favorable matchup. I'd want removal (Decay is good, ZP is excellent), as well as a Needle as it has plenty of targets. Containment Priest is decent but not great to sometimes disrupt a vial activation. There's nothing in their deck that we can't beat, so I would not bring in Thoughtseize. Thalias and Teeg are easy cuts in this matchup.

Elves - Contrary to a poster above, I find Elves to be miserable. I'm in favor of Thoughtseize here as the cards that beat us are Glimpse, Natural Order, and occasionally GSZ. Otherwise their deck is a pile of little dudes and our creatures are superior. You also want all your removal (Decay is good, ZP is excellent). Canonist is also excellent - though they will bring in their own decays. Needle is decent as it shuts off Symbiote, and the Symbiote-Visionary combo is a way they can just win by out-valuing us. Containment Priest is also decent here. Take out your Thalias for sure. I usually also cut QPM, Ooze, maybe a KotR or two, Excavator, and non-Jitte equips.

Infect - Canonist shines here. It makes it basically impossible for infect to insta-kill you. Again ZP and Decay are excellent. I like Thoughtseize here, especially if I can snag their only creature on the play, for instance. Needle is also decent as it can name Inkmoth Nexus. I'd echo a recommendation for Blessed Alliance in this matchup.

Dragon Stompy - I like Thalia here, and definitely better on the play than the draw.

Miracles - there are probably many opinions on this one. Your sideboard is a bit different from mine (which features Choke, Garruk, Sanctum Prelates, etc). I think Surgical is reasonable vs Miracles. Gideon should come in for sure as well. Otherwise, you could maybe bring in Canonists (shuts down Snapcasters and cantrip-heavy draws) and possibly Needle for stuff like Azcanta or Jace. Decay isn't bad as a catch-all answer. Personally, I cut 4 StP's, Gaea's Cradle, 1 DRS, 1 Thalia, and 1-2 Knights and bring in Chokes, Garruk, 2 Prelates, another equip, and surgicals.

Oh I don't disagree that Elves is rough stuff. I expect to face it at least once and maybe twice at our biweekly local so I configured my main deck and sideboard to have extra answers against it (Mindcensor and THC main are far from standard). I think my positive record is due to that and knowing what hands to keep against particular players. My face would likely get smushed in G1 against an unknown Elves player.

I guess you can treat the Elves and Infect matches in the same way as other combo match ups: Thoughtseize away the combo pieces. That's something I'll think about the next time I play Mav at the LGS, particularly against Infect where I think it's more impactful. Just never occurred to me!

Do most Miracles lists play Mentor these days? If that's the case, would you keep the StPs in? Or do you put most of your eggs in the Decay basket?

I'll second Garruk + Choke. Choke's an obvious answer, but Garruk is such a beast. Punch yer Jace in the face!

[Rascalyote]

This is how I've been boarding-

Miracles -4 plow, +2 decay +2 Choke. Surgical can be good, like take their snapcaster target, take a terminus with a miracle trigger on the stack, take out their plows etc. but at the end of the day it's a control matchup and most of the time Surgical is going to just put you down a card and I'd rather have another threat. You can keep a plow or two if they're heavy mentor but the Decays and Jitte mean you're not just cold to them having it as a 2of in their SB. I know plow and Terminus make Shalai look meh but I'd rather have a 3/4 flyer that I can protect with Karakas over something like a surgical.

Elves -2 Shalai, -1 Excavator, -1 Pridemage, -4 Thalia, -1 Sylvan Library, -1 Sword of F/I, -1 mom. +4 Thoughtseize +2 Canonist +2 Zealous +1 Deluge +2 Decay. Just all the removal and sweepers, Ooze is pretty good at beating their alternate win-con of bashing you with dorky dudes and turns off DRS. Trade 1for1 with removal spells and thoughtseize, rip apart their synergy, turn off or discard their haymakers like Glimpse/NO and the situation will favour you as you both are low on cards as you have big bomby threats and they have dorky synergistic critical mass dorks, you also have huge swings with sweepers or jitte. Game 1 is pretty close to a scoop, but with 11 cards being brought in I can breathe a lot easier for game 2/3, not saying it's easy though.

Infect +2 Canonist +1 Deluge +2 Persecution +2 Decay +4 Thoughtseize. -4 Mom -2 Shalai -1 Teeg -1 Ooze -1 Library -1 Excavator -1 SOFI. Sofi is fine in the MU but I was running low on cuts, you can cut something else if you want but they already have a ton of artifact removal post board anyways so w.e. I cut mom because most of the time they don't have removal and if they do it's w/e none of our hate bears lock them out too hard and they're diluting their deck to put cards like Sword to Plowshares in. Again just all the removal you can muster, they don't have too many threats, canonist lets you say 'okay Ill take 1' and if they go for a pump you can 100% remove their threat w/o worrying about a counter.

DNT +1 Deluge +2 Zealous +2 Decay -4 Thalia -1 Teeg. Let's be real, Shalai isn't steallar against the deck sporting plow and Karakas but we're cutting 5 creatures for 5 spells so she's a lot better than Thalia, Teeg is also hot garbage in this matchup, Shalai at least flies and has text, and is stupid with a mom when they don't have Karakas. Thoughtseize has good text but it opens ourselves up to getting cut off mana by going for black so I don't play it, that problem doesn't exist as much for our other black cards because they tend to almost end the game when we cast them. I find DNT to be fairly easy, your creatures outclass theirs a lot of the times, you can answer jitte better, your topdecks are better, and trading down 1for1 favours you as they go down a card to play Vial and sometimes postboard go down another card to play Rest in Peace.

[Zulabnar]

How do You do against Jace and Czech pile \ Miracle?

Normally i finish my cards and then lose to jace \ TNN.

Yesterday i lose with 2 mother in game 1 drs and 1 sword of fire ice

He remove sword, then with a brainstorm + ponder find deluge, than push on another creature i draw and play.

Every match is more or less the same, how do You play?

[Skizz]

Went 5:0 (4: 0: 1) at a bavarian legacy event and got a tundra as my price.

Beat burn, mono red sneak attack, ur delver, dnt, lands (2:1) but we drew before the game.

Gwb is still the way to go and im looking forward to gp birmingham next week :)

[menloe]

3-0 against Punishing Jund, B/R/x Reanimator, and Sultai. I really like my current GWb configuration, which features Gaea's Cradle, Rogue's Passage (thx Megadeus), x2 Ramunap Excavator, Renegade Rallier, and a couple of SFM. Feels like I'm the mayor and only resident of Value Town USA.

[polski]

3-0 against Punishing Jund, B/R/x Reanimator, and Sultai. I really like my current GWb configuration, which features Gaea's Cradle, Rogue's Passage (thx Megadeus), x2 Ramunap Excavator, Renegade Rallier, and a couple of SFM. Feels like I'm the mayor and only resident of Value Town USA.
Can you share your list,please?

[haganbmj]

3-0 against Punishing Jund, B/R/x Reanimator, and Sultai. I really like my current GWb configuration, which features Gaea's Cradle, Rogue's Passage (thx Megadeus), x2 Ramunap Excavator, Renegade Rallier, and a couple of SFM. Feels like I'm the mayor and only resident of Value Town USA.

Yes, more disciples of the Rogue's Passage.

[menloe]

Yes, more disciples of the Rogue's Passage.

Lol, does everyone in ATL play Maverick?

[menloe]

Can you share your list,please?

Pretty standard I think:

Creatures:
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Birds of Paradise
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Mother of Runes
1 Noble Hierarch
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Scryb Ranger
2 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Thalia Guardian of Thraben
4 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Ramunap Excavator (got this wrong in my original post lol)
1 Renegade Rallier
1 Tireless Tracker

Instants/Sorceries:
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Sword to Plowshares

Other Spells:
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Sylvan Library
1 Umezawa's Jitte

Lands:
1 Bayou
2 Forest
1 Gaea's Cradle
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Karakas
1 Plains
1 Rogue's Passage
2 Savannah
1 Scrubland
3 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wasteland
4 Windswept Heath

Sideboard:
1 Blessed Alliance (hard to overstate how good this card is)
2 Choke
1 Containment Priest
2 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Surgical Extraction
3 Thoughtseize
2 Zealous Persecution

(+miscellaneous misleading sleeved tokens)

[Dreadnaught33]

SCG Baltimore Team Event write up- sorry long post!

So some initial thoughts before I get into too many details, and sorry in advance I might ramble at times, I’m trying to sit down and just type after the whole event:

1. Our team ended up in 16th place, good for the cutoff in prizes, which is cool. You can see my decklist, which they decided to -2 Zealous Persecution and -3 Thoughtseize from the SB (lol, I even submitted my list online….) here: http://www.starcitygames.com/decks/120629

2. My teammates did quite well. The standard player on mono red went 12-3, modern guy on grixis probably 10-5 I think and I was 8-6-1 (one game didn’t complete). The format is very fun, and I think if my team did it again we (hopefully I in particular) will be more prepared on how to approach it, we all mostly just played our games alone while I noticed as we moved up the tables the teams of pros and semi pros/grinders talked a lot to each other during games and side boarding.

3. I certainly learned a good deal from this as I’ll go into later about playing this many legacy matches in a row. With a deck like maverick without brainstorm or ponder/cantrips sometimes you can’t draw any lands or draw too many, or can’t find the cards you need a given time. That’s something we have to accept playing this deck, but also why I know we as Maverick’s are constantly messing with our lists and trying stuff trying to find that blue consistency while playing the cards we love.

Now, to the details. DISCLAIMER: I think I would call myself a maverick novice/in training, I think I’m ok and generally have a feel of matchups and what is good/not but there will be some things down the list that will tell you I have a lot to learn, and I hope you can accept that. I’ll get better the more I play.

I’ll try to briefly go through the 15 rounds as best I can:

Round 1 grixis delver, win 2-0. This player was new to legacy, and maverick is supposed to be favored or at least competitive in grixis, and in this game I got there overwhelming his resources, wastelanding him, taxing him with thalia, and otherwise.

Sideboard: I went with +2 ZP, 2 decay, choke -teeg, qasali pridemage, tracker, and two thalia on the draw. In later matches on the play, I’d sometimes leave in a thalia and leave back a decay.

Round 2, Lands. Lose 0-2. So admittedly, we didn’t finish game 2 as the guy scooped as soon as his teammates lost, but I would have lost. Game one he steamrolled me by hitting the exploration early and just getting the engine going faster than I could keep up. In game 2, Drop of honey was a card I had not expecting, although I know lists play it I haven’t actually seen it before and I played RIGHT into it, even when I thought I was good naming 2 on prelate, which eventually just died. I think decay might be good in full in this matchup for that card and exploration, something I’ll remedy next time. If the drop wasn’t there game two and my prelate stuck, I things could have been more interesting.

Board: -teeg, tracker, 2 stoneforge +prelate, 2 surgical, one decay (would do 2 next time and maybe cut a swords or a dork that’s not DRS). You must disrupt their chain of life from the loam and punishing fire by whatever mix you can whether surgicaling one or the other, prelate on 2, ooze eating stuff, knight on bog if you play that or whatever else you can do.

Round 3: 4C Stoneblade win 2-1 This was a good one. What a battle this can become of resources and swords like Death and Taxes, except there is TNN in this one and less disruption of your mana. I focus on wasteland disrupting them and getting ahead with power on board as much as I can. This was the first match where Leovold was a house, and man he won me game 2 and 3. Game 1 He got a jitte on a TNN on turn 3 or 4 and there was not turning back from there for me. Other games came down to tight play and timely swords to plowshares and abrupt decays while sticking leovold and ramunap to lock him down. Great match, great player but he did not expect the 3 drops from my deck. Definitely want to playtest more stoneblade players, it seems like one that would be easier with practice.

Board (can’t remember exactly): +2 ZP +2 Decay +1 Gideon +1/2 Thoughtseize –teeg, -thalias –birds –one swords?

Round 4: Reanimator win 2-0. So I thought this matchup typically to be hard at first, and it gets so much easier when you know how to handle it. Game 1 I see what he’s on as he pitches a sire of insanity to a faithless looting, and I slam a DRS. Next turn he gets his sire, but through a mix of DRS eating stuff in his yard and eating chump blockers I draw/creatures that were pitched to the sire of insanity, I stabilize when I land a knight and mom and swing in for lethal soon after. Game 2, he mulls to 4 I slam DRS and containment priest, and just ping him to death as he can do nothing while I wasteland his one land.

Board: - teeg, leovold, tracker, excavator, 2 SFM, one GSZ, scryb ranger, jitte, SoFaI +2 containment priest, canonist, 3 thoughtseize, one prelate, 2 surgical 2 decay

Round 5 Grixis Delver, lose 1-2 So at this point team is to 4-0, and we get our first taste of great competition. This player was quite good. Game 1 though, I get a SoFaI on a knight and he just concedes as I believe he had no way to deal with that at that point and was too low on life to even hope to find a big fish to block. Game two, he does delver stuff- daze, wasteland DRS, bolts and young pyro completely hose me, its what the deck does.

Game 3 was tilting, to say the least. I know Tyrik @thunderknight heard this story. So, as many maverick players dream, I slam a choke on turn two AND IT RESOLVES. Game over right? Welp, even though I get a thalia the next turn, I proceed to not draw any lands except my tropical island (NOMBO) for upwards of 7-8 turns, and I’m not joking. He wastes away my other lands, and I watch as he masses lands and then goes all out playing Liliana the last hope, delvers, and TNN and I die while having to discard turn after turn. An incredibly sad game for maverick players everywhere. Our team loses as our modern player loses to affinity.

See game one for sideboard

Round 6- Miracles, win 2-1. This one was in some ways a ‘miracle’, lol. I know the player, he typically plays jeskai control in modern. Game one is the soul crushing experience we expect when playing miracles. He was on the traditional counterbalance type plan but with Gideon to win along with jace. Game two, I don’t remember well but I think it involved teeg sticking around while I tried to hit hard and fast with equipped creatures and him getting bowled over when I GSZ for 3, he lets it resolve, and sees it’s Leo instead-I think his eyes almost popped out of his head and he got flustered, perfect. Game 3 was a Gideon game. I got him to resolve, and he went to poundtown. Man is he great. Team at 5-1

Sideboard: -4 swords, - 1 bird, - ramunap, -ooze -1 mom +Gideon, choke, 2 decay, 1 prelate, 3 Thoughtseize

Round 7: Death and Taxes, win 2-1. Lesson from losing game one- maybe save your swords until you really need them when its early on- (except on mom). I used one on a SFM who fetched a batterskull, and then he lands 3 mirran crusader in a row, which I can’t block with my board of green creatures. Welp. Games 2 and 3 I easily outmuscle him and get my swords and moms online before he can. I find on the play, I go and ahead and go REALLY aggressive and put them on the back foot vs our bigger threats and on the draw, I try to pick off their threats as much as I can while still landing moms and equipment/knights where I can, and if you get Gideon happening, even better-he was again a house. I find the matchup to be pretty favorable. Another card to watch out for- Shalai is a thing for them now- if you see a vial go to 4, that’s likely what it is, so hold your removal if its on 4 and untapped!!

Sideboard: - 3 thalia, teeg, Leovold, ramunap, Deathrite shaman, Ooze (I know they bring in rest in peace so I like cutting these graveyard heavy creatures) +2 Zealous persecution 2 decay 2 Thoughtseize Gideon. Thoughtseize was surprisingly good in this matchup and in the one later one, I am a big fan after this weekend.

Round 8: Eldrazi win 2-1. HOLY SH%$ guys game one took 35 minutes. A combination of slow play from my opponent and an endbringer I could plow because of a chalice on one made this game unbearably long. I had a ramunap most of the game which recurred the same wasteland about 8 times, so he could do much at time but land mimics and endless ones when he found his eldrazi eyes and temples, while I held it down with a scavenging ooze which ate up the remains of bad attacks and got up to- and I’m not joking here- 20 counters. 20!!!! I finally draw a GSZ get pridemage, blow the chalice, swords his endbringer so it cant stop my ooze form attacking anymore and end him. Game 2, his deck has the nut- two mimics on one, Thought knot on 2, hit me for 8, and endbringer on 3, hit me for lethal. Yikes. Game 3, I get there again with wasteland, plows, and finally Gideon pumbling him. Thoughtseize again starred here.

Board -4 mom ,- 2 thalia +3 Thoughtseize, +2 decay, +1 Gideon

Round 9: Grixis/4 color heavier control type delver? 1-1 MAtch didn’t end. So not much to say here, my other teammates had pretty quick matches as the delver player and I kind of went back and forth. He won game one, I won game 2, we didn’t play game 3 because it was over and our team ended up 7-1-1 on the day.


DAY 2- this day was vs mostly pros and grinders as you’d imagine since only 24 teams made it. Much worse day than day one for me.


Round 10- Grixis delver lose 0-2 vs Jonathan Sukenik, a known grixis delver champion. This was cool, and was in the feature match area, though I wasn’t on camera, thank god. Game one, he goes crazy and does what the player in round 5 did to me which is stop me from playing magic through daze force and wasteland while developing his board with young pyro and TNN, oh well. Game 2 was a real bummer, I had to mull to a bad 5, and he wastelanded my first two lands while I had nothing to play but a jitte for the first 4-5 turns. That didn’t end well for me.

Board- see Game 1

Round 11- Miracles, lose 0-2. Man do I hate miracles. I get terminated and brought ‘back to basics’ hard in game one, barely even hitting him once. Welp, lets see what happens with the sideboard. Not much better in game 2- I’d love to see what you guys think of these early turn plays- I go to slam the choke on turn 2, it’s forced. I thought they board those out? Turn 3 go for Gideon, also forced. After that, I can land stuff but never get a board that stays around long, and can’t get my teeg or prelate to stay there, and just die. If only he cut his forces! He said after the match he leaves force because of basically the situation we had and his ability to get cards back no problem.

Board- see game 6

Round 12- Storm, win 2-0. I slam a thalia turn 2, no idea what hes on. He turns to his partner and expresses his worry that he’s not sure he can get through this. The lands I see were island and volcanic island and ponder. He concedes soon after not drawing lands after I waste his volcanic island. I have to guess what he’s on, and I guessed sneak and show. Game 2 he goes off turn 2, while I did have a canonist in hand. Oh well, at least I know what he is- and board better. Game 3 I complete the trifecta of awesome things with DRs on one, thalia on two, canonist on three and then GSZ for teeg on 4, ooze on 5 with knight. Although he fatal pushes thalia and canonist, he can’t get through the teeg and I kill him shortly after by beating down.

Sideboard - 4 swords, pridemage, tracker, 2 SFM, SoFaI, excavator +3Thoughtseize, prelate, 2 Zealous persecution, 1 canonist, 2 surgical, choke.

Round 13- Food chain lose 0-2. I’m gonna admit, I’ve never played this matchup. The guy I played is a serious grinder, his deck was pimped out and he was very chatty and goofy, but quick to point out things he thought I was doing wrong etc. and all the vibing kind of made me play poorly. I made my biggest mistake of the tournament, equipping a jitte to a bird and blocking one of his dumb fliers looking for counters, only to realize I didn’t do combat damage with a 0/1, shit. Post board I don’t do much better as again I’m quite unaware of how this deck works. I try to go aggressive but he mulls into a much more removal heavy post board plan and picks off all my knights and other creatures while slowly grinding me to death with his exiled stuff and shardless agents. He actually didn’t ever even need to play food chain. Yikes! I learned from this match though. If I was to board next time, I would go-

Sideboard -3 thalia, teeg, ramunap, 2 swords (swords are bad vs his exiled, but I leave some in for deathrite.) + 3 Thoughtseize, choke, 2 decay, canonist maybe prelate on three for food chain or 2 for decay

Round 14- Miracles (again ugh) lose 1-2. Like I said, my day 2 sucked lol. Not much to say here, the game I won was on the back of scryb ranger doing her tricksy things pumping out a knight and SoFaI into play and beating him down before he could find terminus. This matchup is SO hard because you both don’t want to overextend into terminus, and also need to kill them fast or you will die eventually to a jace ticking up, as I did in game 3 after everything I put down got sworded/snap-swords, terminus, counterbalanced, etc. All my best cards only one at a time- teeg, prelate, leovold- just die if they don’t have backup or get swept away. Such a frustrating matchup I hope I can improve in somehow, and honestly after today, I’ll be putting in a 2nd choke for now until I can find something else that can really screw them. I didn’t see how well thoughtseize does in this matchup as I never had it.

See game 6 for board.

Round 15- Death and Taxes, win 2-0. I needed a feel-good matchup for the end here after all these backbreaking loses on the day. Same as my one yesterday, this guy was on WW and I just beat him up with early moms, DRS and then equipment and knights. He landed his Rest in Peace game 2 but it was quickly decayed, something I think he didn’t expect and he was too slow to develop his board as I had plenty of swords and the like for everything he had while landing my own stuff. GG. He also had Shalai, which is the only thing of note for you guys.

Thoughts on the event and the deck:

- Top performing cards:

1. Leovold. Man he is a house. Worth the splash, I was amazed at how many times I looked for him in GSZ to get back into a game or seal the game. Worth it.
2. Scryb ranger. Don’t need to say too much here, but in any non-combo matchup, she is just the queen of tricky plays. The lines you can pull out of her can stun your opponents.
3. Thoughtseize. Being a true GW player at heart, I always tried to cut down on this card and begrudgingly brought 3. This card is one of our best board cards for soooo many matchups where your life isn’t imminently in danger or where it will do almost nothing (lands, depths). There is a case to play it main to me after this event and I’ll never play less than 3 in abzan.
4. Gideon. Dude was a house when he came in, highly recommend him as the finisher of choice. MIGHT try two.
5. Mom, thalia, DRS and knight- Yeah you already knew that.

- I want 4 thalia main. I thought 3 would be ok, and I know it works for some, but shes too important in too many matchups that are not ones we need to be in control in (grixis delver) or don’t need her like D and T.

- I think that 6 dorks isn’t totally necessary, and will likely go to just hierarch for now. The flying on bird only came up once, in the matchup with food chain and hierarch helps us push through damage. I realize there are times it can help though, so I’ll think it over.

- On the 6 dork thing, I ended up on 22 lands and dryad arbor, and honestly I think maybe playing the 23rd ‘real’ land might be right. I didn’t have any fun lands like DD or maze or cradle today. I’d consider a cradle in this 23rd spot I think, but there’s an argument for a forest, another savannah, 9th fetch, or even like a ghost quarter too for this other land, but just something that makes mana. I’ll be testing. The lack of lands killed me in more than one match, this deck NEEEEEDS mana bad.

- Tracker was underwhelming all event long, except in the last D and T matchup where it just kind of fun drew me cards and speed up the clock a little. Again, I understand some people are big fans and there are grindy spots she excels in, but I think 6 3 drops is probably the max for me. I might try her in the board, and bring her in for matchups where we can afford to midrange like pile, D and T, BUG delver, miracles, eldrazi, and prison. Not sure yet but this makes sense to me right now.

- Prelate is a card that I always like on paper, and with talking to @lorkac, but in practice it was underwhelming. Hard to cast, and only helped vs lands until it died. That lands thing is relevant though admittedly. Against miracles, they have too many ways to deal even when it’s on one or 6. It’ll be out of my board for now. If it had green in its casting cost, I know that the card would be a staple but obviously, that aint the case.

That’s all for now, thanks for reading! Please give me any thoughts you have; I love, love talking this deck. I’ll be back for more competitive legacy soon I hope.

[haganbmj]

Lol, does everyone in ATL play Maverick?

There's another guy building Maverick right now. I think he'll be ready in time for this week's local.
Feels like everyone has played Maverick at least once at some point.

Regrettably I put down my Knights back in like late 2014ish(?), Rogue's Passage was doing fine to combat Lingering Souls and True-Name, but losing a few too many times to Craterhoof Behemoth, Griselbrand, and Emrakul was enough to push me away for a few years. Been picking them back up the last month or two.

[menloe]

There's another guy building Maverick right now. I think he'll be ready in time for this week's local.
Feels like everyone has played Maverick at least once at some point.

Regrettably I put down my Knights back in like late 2014ish(?), Rogue's Passage was doing fine to combat Lingering Souls and True-Name, but losing a few too many times to Craterhoof Behemoth, Griselbrand, and Emrakul was enough to push me away for a few years. Been picking them back up the last month or two.

Welcome back. I keep meaning to hit up the Giga-Bytes quarterly, but it's a bit of a drive. Hope to be at the next one!

[haganbmj]

Welcome back. I keep meaning to hit up the Giga-Bytes quarterly, but it's a bit of a drive. Hope to be at the next one!

Well make sure to say hi if you do come out. Next Legacy Quarterly is Saturday June 23, with Modern on that Sunday.
I'm going to try and jam some Maverick in the coming weeks, I've been less enthused with Elves lately so I might lock in Maverick (or some variation with 2 Leovolds) for the Quarterly if I like the looks of it.

[Valleysdai]

Hello all, I'm looking at building a variation of the dark blue Maverick deck, what are everyone's thoughts on dark blue maverick as a whole?

[lavafrogg]

Hello all, I'm looking at building a variation of the dark blue Maverick deck, what are everyone's thoughts on dark blue maverick as a whole?

Dark Blue as in with Leovold and a trop/tundra as the only blue cards?

Either way, I feel like you have a few options with Maverick currently and they all stem from the mana base.

Straight GW(b)- black cards in sideboard/maybe a decay main can be with Stage/Depths or Cradle/Maze

GWbr- Punishing Fire lists, usually - Thalia + Fires, has the best Grindy blue matchups as Punishing fires kill most of the creatures played in blue these days. Utility lands are replaced with groves.

GWbu- gets Leovold as an additional hatebear, utility lands are usually sacrificed for blue duals.

Every meta is different but personally I prefer the straight GW version so I can have access to basics in the face of blood moon and wasteland decks(delver/DnT). I also use my flex slots for additional Pridemages and SFM to make sure I beat randomlegacy.dec and Delver.

The splash lists will be better against Pile and Miracles but worse against non interactive matchups.

This is my current list:

4 Mother of Runes
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Stoneforge Mystic

1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Scryb Ranger
1 Ranumap Excaavator
1 Dryad Arbor

1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Battterskull

4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Swords to Plowshares

3 Verdant Catacombs
4 Windswept Heath
4 Wasteland
2 Savannah
1 Bayou
1 Scrubland
2 Forest
1 Plains
1 Maze of Ith
1 Gaea's Cradle
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Karakas

Sideboard
4 Thought seize
3 Sanctum Prelate
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Blessed Alliance
2 Zealous Persecution

I am trying a 3 Prelate plan against Miracles and Czech as well as the Ghost Quarter/Excavator plan against Czech and Delver.

Prelate is good as combinations of Mom, Thalia, Prelate and Teeg can pretty much lock control decks out of the game.

[Leonides]

Hello guYs just wanna tell my opinion about some deckslists
I am playing the deck 3years now and i can tell you that so many dorks is not neccesery, late game top decks are are just crap.
4-max max 5 dorks more then enough not counting gsz.

I was thinking of puting in board 2 - 3 mox diamond for early thalia or whatever needed in the situation... that card is sick with knight and for collor fixing

[lavafrogg]

Hello guYs just wanna tell my opinion about some deckslists
I am playing the deck 3years now and i can tell you that so many dorks is not neccesery, late game top decks are are just crap.
4-max max 5 dorks more then enough not counting gsz.

I was thinking of puting in board 2 - 3 mox diamond for early thalia or whatever needed in the situation... that card is sick with knight and for collor fixing

I’m confused, you say mana dorks are useless late game and then suggest more fast mana that is useless late game?

With Mox you really want a Loam or 2 which is a slippery slope towards Chalice of the void and aggro loam.

Turn 1 Thalia is pretty good but then 1 deathrite is also pretty good.

[Leonides]

I just thought of puting 2-3 mox insted of some dork like 1 birds-, maverick have flex slots..wanted just to try something new..

Its not just turn one thalia but stoneforge or zenth for 1 and sylvan library and i would use just 1loam couse excavator is in main so no need for Lot of change.
Putting thalia on turn one is complete win.. wastelandong the turn after is just feels too god :)

[lavafrogg]

I just thought of puting 2-3 mox insted of some dork like 1 birds-, maverick have flex slots..wanted just to try something new..

Its not just turn one thalia but stoneforge or zenth for 1 and i would use just 1loam but excavator is in main so no need for Lot of change.
Putting thalia on turn one is complete win.. wastelandong the turn after is just feels too god :)

You just need something/to recoup all of the lost card advantage and make up for the mana development.

If you go land, mox(pitch land), Thalia, you most likely need 1 more land in hand.... now you have 3 cards in hand turn 2 with a Thalia on board... that is where you need the quick card advantage like Loam or Dark Confidant.

I love the brewing of new ideas though.

I low key am working on a GW version with Vial and Looter Scooter to take advantage of Renegade Rallier.

[delfam]

Two Questions as a New Maverick Player:

1. I agree with others here that Tireless Tracker is a little slow. Is Palace Jailer a possibility? Is having a 4CMC creature to GSZ for too expensive for the mainboard or is double white too restrictive? Removal and CA on a stick seems great.

2. Not sure on my manabase. Having a land that doesn't tap for mana seems rough. Which do you prefer?

- 4 Wasteland, 1 Ghost Quarter
- 4 Wasteland, 1 Maze of Ith
- 3 Wasteland, 1 Dark Depths, 1 Thespian Stage

I really like GA and going full land destruction but against Delver it is dead. Maze is great vs some bigger creatures but doesn't tap for mana. The combo is great and having a land not tap for mana sucks, but the combo gets a lot of free wins.

Not having played much Maverick, which do experienced players prefer?

[lavafrogg]

Two Questions as a New Maverick Player:

1. I agree with others here that Tireless Tracker is a little slow. Is Palace Jailer a possibility? Is having a 4CMC creature to GSZ for too expensive for the mainboard or is double white too restrictive? Removal and CA on a stick seems great.

2. Not sure on my manabase. Having a land that doesn't tap for mana seems rough. Which do you prefer?

- 4 Wasteland, 1 Ghost Quarter
- 4 Wasteland, 1 Maze of Ith
- 3 Wasteland, 1 Dark Depths, 1 Thespian Stage

I really like GA and going full land destruction but against Delver it is dead. Maze is great vs some bigger creatures but doesn't tap for mana. The combo is great and having a land not tap for mana sucks, but the combo gets a lot of free wins.

Not having played much Maverick, which do experienced players prefer?

Confused about your wording but you cannot GSZ for Jailer.

The most popular configurations are both with 4 wasteland, you either get stage+depths or Cradle+Maze.

As far as I know, not many people play Ghost quarter but I am currently testing it with Maze+Cradle to help against Pile and Grixis.

[pettdan]

I was thinking of puting in board 2 - 3 mox diamond for early thalia or whatever needed in the situation... that card is sick with knight and for collor fixing

I've occasionally played one Mox Diamond in the sideboard to improve odds vs fast combo decks and I think it's fine. In the current meta I don't think it's at its best, Grixis Delver seems to be keeping combo down. Maybe worth it in a larger tournament where anything can show up.

[Schryver]

Two Questions as a New Maverick Player:

2. Not sure on my manabase. Having a land that doesn't tap for mana seems rough. Which do you prefer?

- 4 Wasteland, 1 Ghost Quarter
- 4 Wasteland, 1 Maze of Ith
- 3 Wasteland, 1 Dark Depths, 1 Thespian Stage

I really like GA and going full land destruction but against Delver it is dead. Maze is great vs some bigger creatures but doesn't tap for mana. The combo is great and having a land not tap for mana sucks, but the combo gets a lot of free wins.

Not having played much Maverick, which do experienced players prefer?

I never used to play Maze but I tried it after the Seattle list top-8ed with one. It has been the nuts multiple times since then so I definitely think it is worth playing.

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

[delfam]

Confused about your wording but you cannot GSZ for Jailer.

The most popular configurations are both with 4 wasteland, you either get stage+depths or Cradle+Maze.

As far as I know, not many people play Ghost quarter but I am currently testing it with Maze+Cradle to help against Pile and Grixis.

Isn't 6 colorless lands too many?

[lavafrogg]

Isn't 6 colorless lands too many?

The version I play, Straight GW, has 3 basics and for the most part the deck has no difficult mana requirements. GSZ allows the deck to essentially run off of G as you can always get a DRS to provide W mana.

[lavafrogg]

Super bummed no Thalia’s got into the GP top 16...

On a bright note I was able to 4-0 a local this week. Ghost Quarter + Excavator were valuable both together and separate as I was only able to get them together on one occasion.

Real Quick:

Round 1 2-0 DnT
While I love DnT and one day might switch to playing it.... I have a great matchup against the deck with Maverick. We win the equipment war pre and post board in addition to having ZP to win the MoR war.

Game 1 was won win a Scryb Ranger winning the MoR battle and game 2 was won by being the only person active equipment.

Round 2 2-1 Burn
All 3 games were super close, Pridemage was an MVP killing vortex and eidolon game 1. I was able to Quarter a dual to get a basic and minimize price damage all 3 games.

Round 3 2-0 Grixis Delver
This is why we play Mav...
Equipment and recurring Wastelands seal the deal.

Round 4
2-1 Czech
I was able to land a few awkward boardstates for him with Prelate, and generally I won the die roll and was able to stay a turn ahead with Thalia, Waste and Knights. We need a better plan for control garbage.
Game 3 I was able to keep him off of red through a combination of waste/Quarter and Thalia which allowed me to get an active Sword for a few turns. This allowed me to kill his DRSx2 and win the long game.

I’m still working on the SB and hope we get something in the next set and not a DRS ban.

[kingtk3]

Hey guys, I once played maverick but it's been years since I sleeved it and I'm thinking of giving it a chance in the next tournament. Right now I'm no this list:

4 deathrite shaman
4 mother of runes
4 thalia, guardian of thraben
1 gaddock teeg
1 qasali pridemage
1 tireless tracker
1 scryb ranger
1 scavenging ooze
2 stoneforge mystic
1 ramunap excavator
4 knight of the reliquary
1 leovold, emissary of trest
4 swords to plowshares
1 abrupt decay
4 green sun's zenith
1 sword of fire and ice
1 umezawa's jitte
1 sylvan library
4 wastelands
4 windswept heath
3 verdant catacombs
1 marsh flat
2 savannah
2 bayou
1 tropical island
1 scrubland
1 plains
1 forest
1 dryad arbor
1 karakas
1 gaea's cradle

SIDE
1 gaddock teeg
1 ethersworn canonist
1 sanctum prelate
4 thoughtseize
1 gideon, ally of zendikar
1 maelstrom pulse
1 abrupt decay
1 choke
2 surgical extraction
2 zelous persecution


Things I like:

the maindeck decay, and if I could i would squeeze a second copy
Excavator and Leovold since they are excellent hatebears
Tracker since is a CA engine and alternative win condition in case of RiP/leyline



Things I don't like:

the absence of Exalted creatures, because without those triggers our creatures are fairly small (save for knight of course) and can be difficult to race. Moreover multiple copies of Qasali helped against random art/ench stuff while clocking the opponent
stoneforge, because I found them quite slow and a tempo sink
sylvan library (maindeck), mainly because it's slow and not always functional for our game plan, and wit all these leovold running around may be a liability. It's perfectly fine as a side card I think for the grindier MU



My impressions come from a long time but old experience with the deck and may be biased. What do you think?

PS: a friend of mine is playing a list with 4 Dark Confidant in place of the stoneforges (but still plays equipments), decay and I don't know what else (he even plays a Titania instead of tracker as top end threat).
I've always seen Bob as great card for Rock style decks, with lower creature count but high number of discard and removal in order to recover from the 1 for 1 faster, but my friends insists that hands with turn 1 mom, turn 2 Bob are very likely to win.
What do you think?

Greetings.

[Valleysdai]

I have finished my maverick/loam cross that is really fun, I can chuck a decklist up if people are interested. I did several games of testing at the GP and I do want to find room for Mom & Scryb ranger.

From my testing I have discovered that my sideboard is weak against miracles, so I've been looking at spicy cards such as:

Canopy surge
aegis of honor (for burn)

[timmyod17]

Has anyone tested new Karn in the SB against Miracles / Pile?

[Cpt-Qc]

@ kingtk3

Maverick with bobs + decays + dark depths is refered to as Dark Maverick.

Generally speaking, confidant is pretty good at fighting control decks because you just out-draw them. It's much worse against combo and aggressive midrange decks tho. So technically if you have a lot of miracles, czech pile, sylvan plug, enchantress, stax and the likes, it might be very good. Heck, I even bought bobs to try it out a while ago when my meta was infested with those decks but they just vanished so I don't see a point in playing them now.

[kingtk3]

@ kingtk3

Maverick with bobs + decays + dark depths is refered to as Dark Maverick.

Generally speaking, confidant is pretty good at fighting control decks because you just out-draw them. It's much worse against combo and aggressive midrange decks tho. So technically if you have a lot of miracles, czech pile, sylvan plug, enchantress, stax and the likes, it might be very good. Heck, I even bought bobs to try it out a while ago when my meta was infested with those decks but they just vanished so I don't see a point in playing them now.

Thanks for your reply. May I ask some criticism about my own list too? Especially regarding the things I like and I don't like.

Thanks.

[timmyod17]

Hey guys, I once played maverick but it's been years since I sleeved it and I'm thinking of giving it a chance in the next tournament. Right now I'm no this list:

4 deathrite shaman
4 mother of runes
4 thalia, guardian of thraben
1 gaddock teeg
1 qasali pridemage
1 tireless tracker
1 scryb ranger
1 scavenging ooze
2 stoneforge mystic
1 ramunap excavator
4 knight of the reliquary
1 leovold, emissary of trest
4 swords to plowshares
1 abrupt decay
4 green sun's zenith
1 sword of fire and ice
1 umezawa's jitte
1 sylvan library
4 wastelands
4 windswept heath
3 verdant catacombs
1 marsh flat
2 savannah
2 bayou
1 tropical island
1 scrubland
1 plains
1 forest
1 dryad arbor
1 karakas
1 gaea's cradle

SIDE
1 gaddock teeg
1 ethersworn canonist
1 sanctum prelate
4 thoughtseize
1 gideon, ally of zendikar
1 maelstrom pulse
1 abrupt decay
1 choke
2 surgical extraction
2 zelous persecution


Things I like:

the maindeck decay, and if I could i would squeeze a second copy
Excavator and Leovold since they are excellent hatebears
Tracker since is a CA engine and alternative win condition in case of RiP/leyline



Things I don't like:

the absence of Exalted creatures, because without those triggers our creatures are fairly small (save for knight of course) and can be difficult to race. Moreover multiple copies of Qasali helped against random art/ench stuff while clocking the opponent
stoneforge, because I found them quite slow and a tempo sink
sylvan library (maindeck), mainly because it's slow and not always functional for our game plan, and wit all these leovold running around may be a liability. It's perfectly fine as a side card I think for the grindier MU



My impressions come from a long time but old experience with the deck and may be biased. What do you think?

PS: a friend of mine is playing a list with 4 Dark Confidant in place of the stoneforges (but still plays equipments), decay and I don't know what else (he even plays a Titania instead of tracker as top end threat).
I've always seen Bob as great card for Rock style decks, with lower creature count but high number of discard and removal in order to recover from the 1 for 1 faster, but my friends insists that hands with turn 1 mom, turn 2 Bob are very likely to win.
What do you think?

Greetings.

I like your list. I agree with your thoughts regarding main deck decay, Excavator, and Leo. Since Tracker isn't a hate bear I'm personally not a fan of Tireless Tracker any more since running Leovold in the deck, but your meta might be full of control decks where Tracker shines.

Personally, I always try to have some combination of main deck QPM and Decay that adds up to three. It just really boosts our game 1 odds against D&T, Stoneblade, random Blood Moons, and a whole bunch of other decks.

Library maindeck I think heavily depends on your meta and preferences. No right or wrong answer on that.

I'm down on Stoneforge right now too. Have been thinking of cutting it and going to 2x Jitte like in the old days, but haven't crossed that bridge yet.

One criticism of your list: the Marsh Flats. Personally I think every fetch in the deck should be able to get Dryad Arbor, particularly in a list that runs equipment. Being able to instantly get some type of board presence after a wrath, to "fizzle" an edict effect, or to ambush an attacker are plays that can turn losses into wins. Maybe try a Horizon Canopy - a great utility land with Excavator.

[Rascalyote]

I also play 3 Verdants and 1 Marsh Flats. I personally like having the 5th fetch that goes and gets plains as it's one of our best cards against dnt/delver, so this way I have 7 fetches that get arbor and 5 that get plains as opposed to 8 and 4. I don't think it makes that big of a difference in the grand scheme of things. Have I had situations where I controlled marsh flats and needed Dryad Arbor? Yes, of course, but I've also had times where I've needed a basic white source to not lose to wasteland and just had verdants, so both situations suck.

[lavafrogg]

If we were to remove the Stone forge package and equipment completely, what would you add?

[Claymore]

I have finished my maverick/loam cross that is really fun, I can chuck a decklist up if people are interested. I did several games of testing at the GP and I do want to find room for Mom & Scryb ranger.

From my testing I have discovered that my sideboard is weak against miracles, so I've been looking at spicy cards such as:

Canopy surge
aegis of honor (for burn)

This sounds interesting, similar to 4c Loam?

I'm not sure Canopy Surge would be very useful against Miracles. Decklist would help, but the likes of Garruk Relentless and generic hatebears (Teeg, Thalia, Prelate) work well.

[lavafrogg]

From my previous post:

Since most people are down on equipment right now, what could we do if we removed the whole package....

This is my first draft:

4 Mother of Runes
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
2 Shalai, Voice of Plenty

4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Knight of the Reliquary
3 Qasali Pridemage
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Scryb Ranger
1 Ranumap Excavator
1 Dryad Arbor

4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Swords to Plowshares

3 Verdant Catacombs
4 Windswept Heath
4 Wasteland
2 Savannah
1 Bayou
1 Scrubland
2 Forest
1 Plains
1 Maze of Ith
1 Gaea's Cradle
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Karakas

Sideboard
2 Choke
3 Thoughtsieze
2 Zealous Persecution
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Sanctum Prelate
2 Blessed Alliance
2 Ground Seal

All the white cards have to be killed on sight. I upped the Pridemages to help against DnT and Blood Moon decks.

Sideboard is kind of a mess, but Ground Seal is against opposing DRS decks. Mainboard Thalia's help against a ton of matchups that were previously unfavorable, like elves, and helps keep Delver/Grixis in check while we set up Excavator Recursion.

This is the first draft.. . thoughts?

[Valleysdai]

This sounds interesting, similar to 4c Loam?

I'm not sure Canopy Surge would be very useful against Miracles. Decklist would help, but the likes of Garruk Relentless and generic hatebears (Teeg, Thalia, Prelate) work well.

My list is:

Lands
4 wasteland
4 windswept heath
1 karakas
1 swamp
1 forest
1 plains
1 scrubland
1 bayou
1 savannah
1 tropical island
1 sejiri steppe
1 marsh flats
1 ghost quarter
1 dark depths
1 verdant catacombs
1 dryad arbor
1 maze of ith
1 thespian stage
1 bojuka bog

Creatures
1 birds of paradise
4 deathrite shaman
1 qasali pridemage
1 gaddock teeg
2 Thalia, guardian of thraben
1 scavenging ooze
1 tireless tracker
1 leovold
1 Thalia, heretic cathar
1 ramunap excavator
4 knight of the reliquary

Spells
4 crop rotation
4 green Sun's zenith
3 swords to plowshares
1 sylvan library
2 life from the loam
3 abrupt decay
1 maelstrom pulse

Sideboard
2 thoughtseize
1 surgical extraction
1 containment priest
3 leyline of the void
1 reclamation sage
1 toxic deluge
1 zealous persecution
1 golgari charm (may make a 2nd persecution)
1 choke
2 ethersworn canonist
1 sanctum prelate


I'd like to get scryb ranger and mother of runes in here but not sure what to cut.

The main thing I have been looking for is a way of dealing damage to the miracles player before they can take a turn to set up their response.

[enigma8]

https://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/16-05-18-maverick/?cb=1526502276

ended up 34th in gp birmingham with this, was at 13th place going into second last round and lost to LED dredge on a misplay think i could of won it, lost last round to food chain combo which in general is a terrible matchup had I won this would of been top 16.

Personally I think deck my of over performed, day one I played against 6 grixis delvers only loosing to one due to land flood who was also one of the top 8 players.

Played the deck for a couple years was going to play delver but decided to have some fun instead.

all in all a bittersweet weekend, scryb ranger still best card in the deck.

[haganbmj]

https://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/16-05-18-maverick/?cb=1526502276

ended up 34th in gp birmingham with this, was at 13th place going into second last round and lost to LED dredge on a misplay think i could of won it, lost last round to food chain combo which in general is a terrible matchup had I won this would of been top 16.

Personally I think deck my of over performed, day one I played against 6 grixis delvers only loosing to one due to land flood who was also one of the top 8 players.

Played the deck for a couple years was going to play delver but decided to have some fun instead.

all in all a bittersweet weekend, scryb ranger still best card in the deck.

6 matches against Grixis Delver in day 1, geez what an event. Nice finish, if a bit short of where you'd have liked.

[lavafrogg]

6 matches against Grixis Delver in day 1, geez what an event. Nice finish, if a bit short of where you'd have liked.

Isn't this the dream for Maverick?

[Zulabnar]

If we were to remove the Stone forge package and equipment completely, what would you add?

This is a kind of choice pretty interesting:

Removing equip package will decrese your race, so you will need more turns to kill Your oppo.
This mean that the choices if between

Having more tempo
Cut the rush with more fatties

If we opt for having more tempo, we maybe should try to insert COTV and sometingh to cast it on turn 1

If we opt to have a better rush we should insert something to kill our oppo faster than now, it means maybe red with haste creature, or something else, in a zoo way, but this collide with the control meta that is winning and growing nowadays.

At the moment i think that Maverick GW\b has not enough race to kill oppo, not enough tempo element, and is too dependent from topdecking, so i'm not feeling good with this deck, that is one of my pet deck..

[Valleysdai]

This is a kind of choice pretty interesting:

Removing equip package will decrese your race, so you will need more turns to kill Your oppo.
This mean that the choices if between

Having more tempo
Cut the rush with more fatties

If we opt for having more tempo, we maybe should try to insert COTV and sometingh to cast it on turn 1

If we opt to have a better rush we should insert something to kill our oppo faster than now, it means maybe red with haste creature, or something else, in a zoo way, but this collide with the control meta that is winning and growing nowadays.

At the moment i think that Maverick GW\b has not enough race to kill oppo, not enough tempo element, and is too dependent from topdecking, so i'm not feeling good with this deck, that is one of my pet deck..

What's your thoughts about delving deeper into Blue? We could use the cantrips to find (and controlling elements to protect) our beaters.

[lavafrogg]

What's your thoughts about delving deeper into Blue? We could use the cantrips to find (and controlling elements to protect) our beaters.

You would immediately lose Thalia, which is kinda the point of Maverick, but you would wind up with a TNN + Stoneforge deck a la Reid Duke.