Humans (SCG Modern Open Winner, undefeated)

[Barook]

This list just took down the SCG Modern open and didn't drop a single match over the weekend (he only conceded R15 to a friend after going 14-0):

http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=116800

I could see some variant of it being viable in Legacy as well. It packs tons of disruption.

[Pittplayer]

That deck is not playable in legacy. Wasteland eats it alive. Combo ignores it and combos out. It's basically a bad Maverick deck. And when is the last time Maverick made any waves in legacy?

[Lord_Mcdonalds]

Feel like an optimal list is likely just a worse version of death and taxes.

[Hanni]

That deck is not playable in legacy. Wasteland eats it alive. Combo ignores it and combos out. It's basically a bad Maverick deck. And when is the last time Maverick made any waves in legacy?

My win-and-in for the Top 8 of Eternal Weekend was against Maverick, so it came really close to making waves.

[Ralf]

Actually, I brewed a Human list for Legacy, a year ago, and have had a blast missing out on several top 8 from inches.

My last build is in my signature (Rainbow SWAT aka Human Squad).

And the primer (unfortunately in French but Google translate shall give you the general idea) can be found here:

Human Primer (http://www.legacy-france.org/index.php?showtopic=14241)

Enjoy.

[Jakobian1010]

This just seems like a worse version of fish/merfolk/goblins. Not good enough for legacy.

[MD.Ghost]

That deck is not playable in legacy. Wasteland eats it alive. Combo ignores it and combos out. It's basically a bad Maverick deck. And when is the last time Maverick made any waves in legacy?

I don't know if its playable but this is just a very arrogant view...

Combo "can" also struggle with DnTs Playset of Thalia as a Turn 2 Play. The modern brew already has 4x Kitesail Freebooter, 4x Meddling Mage, 4x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben as cc2 Maindeck cards to fight combo decks and also contains Thalia, Heretic Cathar and Reflector Mage against Creature-Combos (Elves have a hard time to deal with Thalia 2.0 and Refelctor Mage can fight S&S or Reanimator etc.). Yes Turn 2 can be to slow for legacy, but you can always try to find room for Mox&Petal Stuff for more free wins G1 (since combo have a hard time to fight permanent disruption G1 too).

Wasteland eat many decks at legacy if you are able catch someone offguard with landdraws or have the right free counters in hand too. That 4c Pile is greedy as hell and was still the most played deck at EW (with no Lands, DnT top 8 in terms of mana disruption). 4 Noble + 4 Vial can also ignore Wastelands to some degree.

I dont say the Human.pile is awesome for legacy but players should be more open for new ideas outside of a blue cantrip shell!

[Ralf]

I don't know if its playable but this is just a very arrogant view...


Don't bother mate. Haters gonna hate it anyway. Until they get properly spanked several times by it...

[kombatkiwi]

I think that the creature base of this deck is arguably more powerful than DNT/Maverick (and in Legacy this would get to play Mother of Runes too, which is also a Human).

A big strength of the Thalia/Vial decks though is their ability to play wasteland and I'm not sure if you can fit Wasteland in your 5c Mantis Rider deck without fucking up the mana too much.

Saying that a Vial/Hierarch deck loses to wasteland, or that a 4x Meddling Mage 4x Freebooter 4x Thalia deck folds to combo is fairly ridiculous. The hardest matchup imo would probably be some kind of mondo value deck (shardless, jund etc)

[FourDogsinaHorseSuit]

To survive in a format with wasteland you're definitely going to need a needle effect. Revoker fits the mold best, but this is legacy so you will probably can't afford to wait for 2 mana.
Other than that I've always been skeptical about hatebears (But all humans so call it: Hate-mans? Pride and Prejudice? The Human Experience? (It's suffering. Suffering is the Human Experience)) in eternal formats, even if there's a proof of concept in vintage, death and taxes here in legacy, and this deck's own performance in modern.

[NegatorITA]

here, someone made a list and 5-0 today

https://magic.wizards.com/it/node/1225251

[Icapica]

I tested it briefly yesterday, seems surprisingly strong. The player wrote on Reddit that the white Recruiter should probably be replaced with Imperial Rercruiters. This would also allow retrieving a Hostage Taker, which the player said he forgot about.

[Ralf]

I think that the creature base of this deck is arguably more powerful than DNT/Maverick (and in Legacy this would get to play Mother of Runes too, which is also a Human).

A big strength of the Thalia/Vial decks though is their ability to play wasteland and I'm not sure if you can fit Wasteland in your 5c Mantis Rider deck without fucking up the mana too much.

Saying that a Vial/Hierarch deck loses to wasteland, or that a 4x Meddling Mage 4x Freebooter 4x Thalia deck folds to combo is fairly ridiculous. The hardest matchup imo would probably be some kind of mondo value deck (shardless, jund etc)

You sum it up pretty well.

You can't play wasteland. That's the point.
This deck is no maverick nor D&T. It is much more a swarm deck ala Merfolk/Gob/Slivo based on permanents' interactions rather than stack's interactions.

Actually, as you pointed out, the hardest MU is mondo value deck or any deck having access to a sweeper that leaves you in a very tight spot where it will take time to build a board again and where on a 1 to 1 basis all your creatures/draw are inferior to those of your oppo.

Combo (save the T1 kill) and Tempo are not so bad. I would even say that with 4 MM 4 Freebooter 4 Thalia like in the modern's brew, combo should be a walk in the park.

The deck, in my opinion, can go both way:
- Vial +NH -> to power up a lot of CMC 3
- Vial without NH -> to emphasis the swarm nature of the deck with a CMC 2

Since Miracle's fall, I guess the NH version is viable again.

A year and half ago when I came up with my brew, NH was ditched because it is a terrible top deck when you try to recover from a sweeper and you don't usually profit from the exaltation's trigger when your A plan is to attack with everything you have on the board.

That's said "Mantis Rider" taught some respect to my opponents ala Serra Avenger. It is a "real" beat stick that should not be overlooked...


The amount of "specialized skills" is so high among humans' creatures that I called the deck "SWAT". You need an effect/skill ? there is a human with it. Period.

I would be very pleased if some players buy into this idea because I believe this archetype has leg.

[Icapica]

Combo (save the T1 kill) and Tempo are not so bad. I would even say that with 4 MM 4 Freebooter 4 Thalia like in the modern's brew, combo should be a walk in the park.
You can also use Ethersworn Canonist and Kambal, though you probably don't play many of them and the latter doesn't come very early. Against Show and Tell you have access to at least Palace Jailer, Reflector Mage and Hostage Taker.

[Ralf]

You can also use Ethersworn Canonist and Kambal, though you probably don't play many of them and the latter doesn't come very early. Against Show and Tell you have access to at least Palace Jailer, Reflector Mage and Hostage Taker.

Sure.
My list is in my signature.

I don't play the modern hatebear package MD but if you dig into the primer I wrote a year ago you will see that I was playing everything legal and existing at that time (between side and MD).

[FourDogsinaHorseSuit]

I think that the creature base of this deck is arguably more powerful than DNT/Maverick (and in Legacy this would get to play Mother of Runes too, which is also a Human).

A big strength of the Thalia/Vial decks though is their ability to play wasteland and I'm not sure if you can fit Wasteland in your 5c Mantis Rider deck without fucking up the mana too much.

Saying that a Vial/Hierarch deck loses to wasteland, or that a 4x Meddling Mage 4x Freebooter 4x Thalia deck folds to combo is fairly ridiculous. The hardest matchup imo would probably be some kind of mondo value deck (shardless, jund etc)

Except this deck has no selection. Either it's in your hand and you win, or you have to hope you survive long enough to cast a Recruiter?
Edit: I Agree that's better than nothing, having two ways to do it, but it's not a slam dunk in a deck, say, running a hundred cantrips.

[Barook]

here, someone made a list and 5-0 today

https://magic.wizards.com/it/node/1225251
Caleb Durward just 4-1'ed with the list on his stream. He could have 5-0'ed if he hadn't thrown away his mom G3 in the match he lost.

[silly]

Is there any justification for testing out something like Shardless Agent? It's a human so it should be easily playable with the mana base, and it generates card advantage on cast.

[Barook]

Is there any justification for testing out something like Shardless Agent? It's a human so it should be easily playable with the mana base, and it generates card advantage on cast.
Question is how much CA the deck needs. And would it really be better than Recruiter? Agent gets a random thing on cast (so no synergy with Vial), while Recruiter can grab what you need, at the cost of requiring Vial/more mana and having a worse body.

Other things that might be worth to look into, be it as Recruiter target or otherwise:

- Mirror Entity - can make your group of dorks into powerful beaters. Bonus points for stacking with +1/+1 counters.

- Mirran Crusader - highly relevant protections, fast clock, synergizes with both Exalted and +1/+1 counters to bring the pain.

[Icapica]

There's also Dark Confidant, though you'd be taking close to two damage per turn on average.

Edit - https://go.twitch.tv/videos/185778032?t=04h33m55s Human deck against Grixis Delver on SCG. There's Confidants in the deck. The player seems to be the same guy who won the modern tournament.

[Barook]

There's also Dark Confidant, though you'd be taking close to two damage per turn on average.

Edit -https://go.twitch.tv/videos/185778032?t=04h33m55s Human deck against Grixis Delver on SCG. There's Confidants in the deck. The player seems to be the same guy who won the modern tournament.
Said player went 5-4, so there's definitely room for improvement.

[Kaono]

Said player went 5-4, so there's definitely room for improvement.

Does said player have a list we can start with?

[Ralf]

Does said player have a list we can start with?

Although I'm not the said player, my list is a legacy one and has been properly tested for several months...

http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?32058-Humans-(SCG-Modern-Open-Winner-undefeated)&p=1027666&viewfull=1#post1027666

[from Cairo]

There seems like there are a few different directions you can take this archetype - the core seems best as WB with Mother, Thalia, Confidant, Freebooter - as value plays and Champion and Lieutenant as agro.

From there White offers depth in Recruiter, Palace Jailer effects, Canonist and Containment Priest sb. Black facilitates Orzov Pontiff.

Blue can provide Meddling Mage and Reflector Mage - though I can’t tell it’s better than the White exile creatures.

Green can offer Noble Hierarch, Mayor, Sylvan Safekeeper.

Red provides Magus of the Moon, pingers and ‘Shatter’ effects.

I think 4-5 color builds have merit though I’m not sure if having better mana in 3 colors isn’t superior.


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[Barook]

There seems like there are a few different directions you can take this archetype - the core seems best as WB with Mother, Thalia, Confidant, Freebooter - as value plays and Champion and Lieutenant as agro.

From there White offers depth in Recruiter, Palace Jailer effects, Canonist and Containment Priest sb. Black facilitates Orzov Pontiff.

Blue can provide Meddling Mage and Reflector Mage - though I can’t tell it’s better than the White exile creatures.

Green can offer Noble Hierarch, Mayor, Sylvan Safekeeper.

Red provides Magus of the Moon, pingers and ‘Shatter’ effects.

I think 4-5 color builds have merit though I’m not sure if having better mana in 3 colors isn’t superior.


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Red doesn't offer much, as Magus of the Moon nukes your own manabase.

Noble Hierarch seems to play a major role to stabilize the manabase and make it more resilient against mana denial, alongside Vial.

Pikula seems like a great denial tool. Reflector Mage gets its job done even if it's killed, and in combination with Pikula it can stop certain creatures permanently. Probably a combination of Reflector Mage and Palace Jailer might be best.

[sco0ter]

There was an old deck called Baseruption (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?6504-Deck-Baseruption-(aYb-Aggro-Control)) which played Shadowmage Infiltrator (alongside Dark Confidant), which happens to be a Human, too.
Maybe it's worth consideration, if this deck needs a draw engine and Confidant doesn't fit or isn't enough.

Red offers Harsh Mentor, which I recall was considered Legacy playable when spoiled. And Grim Lavamancer, but it needs fetchlands.

[from Cairo]

Nothing substantial but I sleeved up a variant for a weekly 12 man and piloted it to 3-1 tonight.

I ran

4 Aether Vial

4 Wasteland
4 Cavern of Souls
3 Karakas
2 Plains
2 Scrubland
1 Tundra
1 Plateau
1 Windswept Heath
1 Flooded Strand
1 Marsh Flats
1 Arid Mesa

4 Champion of the Parish
4 Mother of Runes
4 Thalia Guardian is Thraben
4 Meddling Mage
4 Kitesail Freebooter
4 Thalia’s Lieutenant
4 Dark Confidant
2 Recruiter of the Guard
2 Orhzov Pontiff
1 Banisher Priest
1 Mangara of Corondor
1 Palace Jailer

3 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Faerie Macabre
2 Containment Priest
2 Mirran Crusader
2 Magus of the Moon
1 Pithing Needle
1 Grafdiggers Cage
1 Izzet Staticaster
1 Manic Vandal

I faced

BW Deathrite Ale Rd1 2-1 and Wasteland took him off White 2 games.

Infect Rd2 1-2 I was able to take the middle game with Cavern fueled Freebooter and Meddling Mages shutting down business and his counters being dead in hand. The other 2 games a threat landed and lethaled

Elves Rd3 2-0 I got some early Champion pressure and Mom with Swiftboots taking a Glimpse. Moms proGreened to push Lethal G2 I had Champion into Freebooter into Orzhov Pontiff into Mom + Banisher Priest into Canonist + Cage.

Czech Pile Rd4 2-0 Game 1 I ground out and was able to close before he established control. Game 2 I had fetch Plains Mom into 2 drop into Magus of the Moon to his board of Strix and duals. I was able to follow up with a few more guys castable off Plains and eventually Aether Vial.

Again just early testing of this configuration. Figured I’d share.


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[Barook]

One thing I found yesterday was Wizard Mentor - it's quite expensive without Vials to do full laps since it bounces itself, too. On the flipside, it's fetchable with Recruiter and could do some serious grinding. It also synergizes with stuff like Pontiff, Palace Jailer and Thalia’s Lieutenant.

@from Cairo: How much mana do you have lying around normally? I'm still interested into the Mirror Entity tech.

[from Cairo]

Most of the games ended with 3-5 land. Mirror Entity might be fine.


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[FourDogsinaHorseSuit]

One thing I found yesterday was Wizard Mentor - it's quite expensive without Vials to do full laps since it bounces itself, too. On the flipside, it's fetchable with Recruiter and could do some serious grinding. It also synergizes with stuff like Pontiff, Palace Jailer and Thalia’s Lieutenant.

@from Cairo: How much mana do you have lying around normally? I'm still interested into the Mirror Entity tech.

I think it fills a similar role to Reflector mage, which I feel is better.

[Icapica]

Wizard Mentor bounces your own creatures so it's very different from Reflector Mage.

It's cute, but probably far too weak most of the time.

[Barook]

Has anybody tested Gitaxian Probe in this deck yet? It would seem like a major boon for early sequencing, especially with Meddling Mage. Freebooter would probably benefit as well, knowing when to take a card.

[Epeirogeny]

Legacy Humans
This is a Human-based aggro / prison deck playing enough hatebears and disruptive creatures that plays a small number of spells. This deck is based strongly on the builds by Sam Castrucci and Jogee (mtgo) seen in the vintage meta game. If it is powerful enough to see play in vintage it could have a chance in legacy. However, color fixing and acceleration must be taken into account as there are no moxen when adapting the legacy version. Also, the hatebears need to be wider as there are more than the only four prevalent decks in legacy than vintage. Artifact hate slots were thinned out since MUD is not a strong concern in Legacy, while storm and dredge hate slots were kept the same. Nevertheless, the deck is still in progress, but here is a current list.

4 Cavern of Souls
3 City of Brass
4 Dark Confidant
3 Harsh Mentor
2 Kambal, Consul of Allocation
1 Kitesail Freebooter
4 Mana Confluence
2 Manic Vandal
2 Mayor of Avabruck
1 Meddling Mage
4 Æther Vial
3 Noble Hierarch
4 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Reflector Mage
4 Scab-Clan Berserker
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
1 Thalia's Lieutenant
1 Grand Abolisher
4 Unclaimed Territory
4 Wasteland

//Sideboard
SB: 2 Aegis of the Gods
SB: 2 Grafdigger's Cage
SB: 4 Containment Priest
SB: 1 Melira, Sylvok Outcast
SB: 2 Surgical Extraction
SB: 2 Orzhov Pontiff
SB: 2 Izzet Staticaster


This particular list is built so that Unclaimed Territory can cast any creature in the entire deck alongside Cavern of Souls. The only non-human here is Phyrexian Revoker, but is only uses the colorless mana.
Mana Confluence is...mana confluence, a rainbow land in a five color deck. It is technically better than City of Brass, but I've yet to see Tangle Wire-like effects become mainstream in legacy.
Both Thalias' roles are similar to their role in most decks they are played in such as Death and Taxes. A resistor effect combined with Wastelands and disruption to slow down combo while being a threat at the same time.
Harsh Mentor, Meddling Made, and Kitesail Freebooter are disruption creatures that are also threats.
Kambal and Scab-Clan Berserker give this deck protection against the broken combo decks by making most "one big turn" type strategies impossible to utilize. The brainstorm, ponder, preordain builds that many Legacy decks use also become a liability when facing down Kambal, Consul of Allocation or Scab-Clan Berserker.
Manic Vandal isn't incredibly impressive, but it's a Human that can take out an artifact. Not sure if it needs to stay in the Legacy version, as it was main deck include for vintage due to the widespread use of Moxen and MUD archetype cards.
Aether Vial is pseudo-acceleration to replace the Moxen and allows creatures to be put into play at instant speed. As a result, Null Rod is removed from the main deck. Also, Null Rod is not as strong in Legacy as it is in Vintage. Once again, because there are no Moxen in legacy and MUD is not the strongest deck in Legacy.
Reflector Mage is one of the only ways this deck has to deal with an opponent's creature. This is an important ability that could save your life when you're fighting against a Griselbrand or a Spaghetti Monster.
Mayor of Avabruck and Thalia's Lieutenant act as anthem effects.
Noble Hierarch is great mana fixing and acceleration.
Dark Confidant is the only source of card draw advantage; the mana curve of the deck is low enough to use Dark Confidant.
The sideboard is mostly made up of additional hatebears.
Containment Priest and Grafdigger's Cage are good against any cheat creature into play decks such as Natural Order, Show and Tell, and Reanimator builds. (Grafdigger's cage doesn't work against Show and Tell).
Aegis can also do some work against combo decks that win with Tendrils of Agony, but good protection against any discard based deck that may also use cards like Liliana of the Veil and Diabolic Edict. It is a Leyline of Sanctity on a creature.
The Pontiff's ability to shrivel the opponent's creature's power and toughness is good against decks like Elves, Death and Taxes, and Merfolk that can wipe the board without wiping our side of the field.
Melira, Sylvok Outcast is kind of narrow and only good against infect. It can probably be removed since Infect is on a downtick in popularity lately. But it is good to know there is a human that exists for infect if it it rises in popularity again.
Grand Abolisher plays a bit like a Defense Grid. Good against blue decks with a lot of counterspell effects. Sometimes, Cavern of Souls in not enough, or cannot be found naturally.


Link: http://deck.tk/9YpF2GBd