M.O.S.T. - Merieke, Opposition, (Survival), Tradewind Rider

[pettdan]

Note that this primer is also meant to be a resource to help with future brewing of the deck (or other creature-centric decks), that's why there are listed loads of relevant cards and synergies.

Updates:
Jan 18th 2025: adding to the list of spirit creatures.

N.b. As of July 2023 I'm working on an update. Unfortunately I had about 3 years of notes to update the primer with that were lost when my phone crashed so it will take some time to get it up to date. Also, I need to figure out which parts of the primer to replace and which to keep to document old deck building ideas that some players still build closer to, while also adding new and more relevant descriptions. I might slowly add updated comments and keep older texts around for a while, before moving them to separate posts that can be linked in the primer to keep it more concise.


Table of contents

• Deck name explained
• Basics
• Background
• Why play MOST?
• Sample deck lists
• A potential core to support deckbuilding
• Groups of core cards by functionality
• Sideboard
• Matchups
• Related decks
• Possible combos
• Synergies to build upon
• Packages from above
• Examples of online playing
• Discord
• Podcasts covering the deck
• Tournament results
• Modern version of the deck


MOST (or Vial-archetypes)

MOST is an acronym for Merieke, Opposition, Survival of the Fittest, and Tradewind Rider. Note that many of these cards have been replaced as they became less relevant, it is a name that was relevant a long time ago.
More generically, it's a subset of WUBRG Vial and can include WUBG Vial which has been the standard, also Esper Vial, Abzan Vial, Bant Vial, WURG Vial, BUG Vial, etc. However, of course Vial is not an intrinsic part of the deck's strategy and could be replaced.


http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=108871&type=card http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=15162&type=card http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=6150&type=cardhttp://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=4738&type=card



With Survival banned it may be more appropriate to call it MOFT, since Fauna Shaman replaced Survival of the fittest. But we won't do that, no. Actually, there are now a bunch of creature tutors that can and often do replace Fauna Shaman.


http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=205059&type=card



Some alternative creature tutors to play include:

Fauna Shaman: lends itself to tap-effect synergies or creatures that benefit from being in your hand, like adventure cards (see Adventure section below).
Recruiter of the Guard: great with flickering and bounce effects.
Imperial Recruiter: great with flickering and bounce effects.
Fiend Artisan: looks like an updated Fauna Shaman that can be a threat, even a semi-combo threat if you can fill your graveyard. It benefits from having a lot of mana, through for example Gaea's Cradle, or sacrifice synergies.
Green Sun's Zenith: good for ramping with Dryad Arbor, it's a green demonic tutor and especially suitable for putting a green hatebear into play early in the game.

Which creature tutor you use will define what creatures you tend to play, since a creature you can tutor for is worth much more in the deck than a creature you can't tutor for. However, it can still be worth playing creatures that you cannot tutor for, this is an evaluation that will need to be done on an individual basis. It is also possible to run a set of parallel tutor packages that can find each other. Like, for example:

Recruiter of the Guard or Imperial Recruiter -> Spellseeker -> Green Sun's Zenith -> any green creature but also potentially Fiend Artisan or Fauna Shaman


Basics of the deck

At its core it's a creature centric control deck or more usually midrange deck, using creatures to try to control the board and to some degree stack and having some amount of selection to help find the creatures needed. Depending on which colours and card selection suit you choose to use, the deck will look a bit differently. The deck is typically focused on the bant colours with a light black splash but any combination is possible and they all have their advantages. An introduction to what the different colours bring, and what different colour combinations look like, could be added to this primer.

Traditional approach:
The deck typically tries to (or rather tried to) ramp by playing a large amount of alternative mana sources and fewer lands. In parallel it can deploy a Mother of Runes to secure key creatures and gain board control. The advantage of this is that you develop your board more quickly than most decks, and your late game topdecks improve since a top decked mana producer can be used as tutor fodder for Fauna Shaman. Having Fauna Shaman active and an Aether Vial in play means you can put basically any card from your deck into play at instant speed and uncounterably (well, you need to plan for it and tick Vial up accordingly). This is very useful. Vs combo you can slam a Spell Queller, Leovold, Gaddock Teeg or Gilded Drake at an inconvenient moment for your opponent. Vs control a Glen Elendra can cause some problems, or a Magus of the Moon. Vs aggressive decks a Peacekeeper can give you all the time in the world to build up a game winning board. And vs midrange decks getting Leovold, Merieke Ri Berit or Stoneforge for Jitte can all be game winners. You can also tutor up strong card advantage engines when that is the approach you need to take, or a sweeper. It's all up to you and how you choose to use your flex slots. Just changing a single slot can have a large impact on a matchup.

Recent approach:
With the power creep of efficient removal and card advantage built into creatures, the tap effects that have long been central to the deck have become too unreliable. Instead, the core of the deck can be seen to be creature tutors that allow you to play some silver bullet creatures to potentially shore up a specific matchup or to help with specific game states. Also, with a large amount of creatures in the deck, Aether Vial is normally a given, but I wouldn't restrict the deck archetype to decks that include vial, it's just a common choice.


Background of the deck

It was created by the user Stinner as a Survival deck in 2008-2009. Already in 2004 the ATS (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?2616-Deck-ATS-(Angry-Tradewind-Survival)-Former-DTB) thread was created on the Source. Also in the 90's I was playing 5c Tradewind which can be read about on The Dojo (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?32280-M-O-S-T-Merieke-Opposition-(Survival)-Tradewind-Rider&p=1063391&viewfull=1#post1063391), buried deep in memory.

The deck, in its post-survival form, has been discussed on the now inactive MtG-forum Tipo1.it since Dec 10th 2011:
http://www.tipo1.it/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=27255

I highly recommend using Google Translate when browsing this forum: https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=it&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.tipo1.it%2Fviewtopic.php%3Ff%3D29%26t%3D27255&edit-text=&act=url

I've had plenty of good laughs from this thread, I don't know what it is about Italians but apparently they have a more well-developed sense of humor than I have. I remember, 7-8 years later, reading in a discussion on playing Snapcaster Mage something like: "To not play Snapcaster Mage because there is Deathrite Shaman, that's like not making love to a beautiful woman because there is sweat!".

Previous thread on the source and other forums was the Trade Pod deck, which was high-jacked by the user Buloid to discuss MOST in late 2013:
Thread: http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?23898-Trade-Pod-(Tradewind-Rider-Birthing-Pod)
Buloid's post: http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?23898-Trade-Pod-(Tradewind-Rider-Birthing-Pod)&p=765777&viewfull=1#post765777


Why play this deck?

Update 2023: I think it's fair to say that the streamlining I suggested below was done very succesfully by Jeff Lin in the Esper Vial deck, allthough he had a different starting point than this deck, and which I have commented further on below. Basically, I would interpret that deck, from a MOST perspective, as cutting all creature tap-effects and replacing them with creatures with etb-effects that can be used to draw a card (i.e. Baleful Strix or flickering or bouncing it or Gilded Drake). Some players splash a fourth color in that deck, some add a combo element, some experiment with tap effects, some experiment with tribal properties, so we see the same kind of experimentation as with MOST/X-color vial. My own deckbuilding has been very influenced by that deck's strategy, but I think a wider perspective is still useful, green and red cards have a lot of potential too so there's no reason to stay away from these colors in brewing.

Older descripton that still largely applies (pre 2020):
It is perhaps the most beautiful deck of legacy (not afraid of using big words here), surprising you with its consistency (which is reasonable), efficiency (which is good) and flexibility (which is unparalleled). It is unlike anything most of you have seen or played before, so free your mind of your mental inhibitions and browse on.

The deck is different in that it doesn't put one single strategy foremost and then does everything to streamline the deck into executing that strategy, it is a deck that tries to execute a multi-faceted strategy by having an efficient and redundant tutor core (maybe it needs to be streamlined, you're welcome to dig in). Due to the last decade's steady increase in efficiency of creatures we can expect this deck to only get better with time. The most crucial aspect seems to be veeeery few people playing it. The learning curve is steep, the deck is difficult to master, the deck building possibilities are endless, but given time and effort the deck will reward you with tremendous fun, even your opponents will enjoy it with you, and correctly tailored for your meta it can be a strong contender.

The deck has a maindeck hatebear strategy which gives it good game vs combo and control decks, it can pack FoW somewhere in the 75 which helps vs t1-2 combo and it has a redundant card tutoring core that lets you find a multitude of silver-bullets for certain matchups (such as Gilded Drake, Magus of the Moon, Orzhov Pontiff, Merieke Ri Berit, etc).

It is a very creative deck archetype. The core is flexible and provides a lot of tutoring and protection vs both fair and unfair strategies. It can host basically any creature based combo and will put it together by turn 4-5 if left uninterrupted, and Mother of Runes and Force of Will can help it be uninterrupted if that's what you're going for. FoW’s can also be used to protect your creatures against sweepers if they are rampant in your local meta, the Vials and ramp options give it a good chance vs mana denial strategies (but Canadian Threshold is still a tough matchup in my experience).

One of the deck’s main disadvantages is that it is very hard to both put together optimally and to master a list; there is most certainly a better list out there and evaluating changes can be hard since it is not a streamlined deck with 4 copies of every card, different games can play out quite differently. Having access to almost any of the cards in your list every turn and figuring out if you need to be defensive, offensive, which threat you should focus on preparing for or which synergies you should deploy and in what order can be quite challenging. Putting an extra counter on a Vial because you want to be guaranteed to put a certain creature in your deck into play may result in your losing the game.



Sample deck lists

Links to different lists with notes of color combination and some notable inclusions. Maybe a better characterization should include: creature tutors, combo cards, counterspells.

01-18-2024 Huntinggjornersen (https://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?32280-M-O-S-T-Merieke-Opposition-(Survival)-Tradewind-Rider&p=1106144&viewfull=1#post1106144) (MTGO 4-1, WUBG Fauna Shaman, manadorks, rangers and a bunch of 1-ofs)
01-12-2024 Pettdan (https://www.mtgo.com/decklist/legacy-league-2024-01-127779) (MTGO 5-0 list played by huntinggjornersen with WUBG Recruiter otG, Bowmaster/Hullbreacher/Leovold)
01-10-2024 FTW (https://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?32280-M-O-S-T-Merieke-Opposition-(Survival)-Tradewind-Rider&p=1106054&viewfull=1#post1106054) (WuBG Hushbringer + Dreadnought)
12-30-2023 Francis York Morgan (https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/6043231#online) posted this in the Esper Vial discord (WUBG 4 Recruiter + 3 GSZ, 4 Troll + 4 Reanimate)
11-18-2023 Shaden (https://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?32280-M-O-S-T-Merieke-Opposition-(Survival)-Tradewind-Rider&p=1105731&viewfull=1#post1105731) (WUbrG Volrath's Shapeshifter, Phage, Witch+Oracle) (report (https://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?32280-M-O-S-T-Merieke-Opposition-(Survival)-Tradewind-Rider&p=1105742&viewfull=1#post1105742))
09-18-2023 Shazbok (https://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?32280-M-O-S-T-Merieke-Opposition-(Survival)-Tradewind-Rider&p=1105437&viewfull=1#post1105437) (wubG Fiend Artisan)
07-11-2023 Pettdan (https://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?32280-M-O-S-T-Merieke-Opposition-(Survival)-Tradewind-Rider&p=1105443&viewfull=1#post1105443) (WURG Imperial Recruiter)02-21-2023 Pettdan (https://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?32280-M-O-S-T-Merieke-Opposition-(Survival)-Tradewind-Rider&p=1105438&viewfull=1#post1105438) (wubg Grief, Animate Dead)
10-17-2022 Nicksnax (https://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?32280-M-O-S-T-Merieke-Opposition-(Survival)-Tradewind-Rider&p=1105439&viewfull=1#post1105439) (wubG Fauna Shaman)
05-02-2020 Pettdan (https://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?32280-M-O-S-T-Merieke-Opposition-(Survival)-Tradewind-Rider&p=1083580&viewfull=1#post1083580) (WUBG Enchantments)
03-27-2020 Pettdan (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?32280-M-O-S-T-Merieke-Opposition-(Survival)-Tradewind-Rider&p=1082174&viewfull=1#post1082174) (WUbrG)
02-17-2020 Vickas (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?32280-M-O-S-T-Merieke-Opposition-(Survival)-Tradewind-Rider&p=1081213&viewfull=1#post1081213) (BURG Necrotic Ooze, Lazav) and 122018 (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?32280-M-O-S-T-Merieke-Opposition-(Survival)-Tradewind-Rider&p=1081213&viewfull=1#post1081213) (BURG Necrotic Ooze, Lazav), 2018 (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?32280-M-O-S-T-Merieke-Opposition-(Survival)-Tradewind-Rider&p=1061572&viewfull=1#post1061572) (WUBG Necrotic Ooze + Lazav)
06-08-2019 Bobmans (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?32280-M-O-S-T-Merieke-Opposition-(Survival)-Tradewind-Rider&p=1071264&viewfull=1#post1071264) (WBG with Archangel + Spike Feeder, Yawgmoth)
03-24-2019 Memories of the Time (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?32280-M-O-S-T-Merieke-Opposition-(Survival)-Tradewind-Rider&p=1066460&viewfull=1#post1066460) (WUBG with 3 Nissa, Stewardess of Elements and Titania)
02-22-2019 Deragun (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?32280-M-O-S-T-Merieke-Opposition-(Survival)-Tradewind-Rider&p=1065081&viewfull=1#post1065081) (WUBRG with 2 Rhythm of the Wild)
02-21-2019 Bedell (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?32280-M-O-S-T-Merieke-Opposition-(Survival)-Tradewind-Rider&p=1064823&viewfull=1#post1064823) (WUBG with 3 Sanctum Prelate)
02-07-2019 Pettdan (https://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?32280-M-O-S-T-Merieke-Opposition-(Survival)-Tradewind-Rider&p=1083580&viewfull=1#post1083580) (WUBG Setessan Champion)
02-07-2019 Pettdan (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?32280-M-O-S-T-Merieke-Opposition-(Survival)-Tradewind-Rider&p=1064009&viewfull=1#post1064009) (WUBG)
02-13-2019 Pettdan (https://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?32280-M-O-S-T-Merieke-Opposition-(Survival)-Tradewind-Rider&p=1064397&viewfull=1#post1064397) (WUBG Aluren)
02-02-2019 AngryBacon (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?32280-M-O-S-T-Merieke-Opposition-(Survival)-Tradewind-Rider&p=1063726&viewfull=1#post1063726) (WuBG with 3 Thalia, 2 Volrath's Shapeshifter and Phage)
01-12-2019 ChristoferV (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?32280-M-O-S-T-Merieke-Opposition-(Survival)-Tradewind-Rider&p=1062699&viewfull=1#post1062699) (UBRG with 3 Vengevine, Dack Fayden and Intution)
12-22-2018 FutureSight2_MTGBoogaloo (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?32280-M-O-S-T-Merieke-Opposition-(Survival)-Tradewind-Rider&p=1061535&viewfull=1#post1061535) (WUBG with Kambal and Plaguecrafter)
11-16-2018 Cermak (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?32280-M-O-S-T-Merieke-Opposition-(Survival)-Tradewind-Rider&p=1060061&viewfull=1#post1060061) (WBG Thalia+Wasteland)
09-20-2018 Demonic Pact (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?32280-M-O-S-T-Merieke-Opposition-(Survival)-Tradewind-Rider&p=1056816&viewfull=1#post1056816) (no longer available)
08-17-2018 Kanti (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?32280-M-O-S-T-Merieke-Opposition-(Survival)-Tradewind-Rider&p=1054091&viewfull=1#post1054091) (WUBG with 2 Leovold, 2 Jitte)
02-22-2018 Stinner (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?32280-M-O-S-T-Merieke-Opposition-(Survival)-Tradewind-Rider&p=1037502&viewfull=1#post1037502) (WUBrG with Eternal Witness, Negate, Spell Pierce, Opposition and Tradewind Rider)
05-12-2017 Shaden (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?23898-Trade-Pod-(Tradewind-Rider-Birthing-Pod)&p=1031536&viewfull=1#post1031536) (WUBrG with 4 Meddling Mage, Volrath's Shapeshifter and Phage)
04-14-2017 Hadhod (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?23898-Trade-Pod-(Tradewind-Rider-Birthing-Pod)&p=1000648&viewfull=1#post1000648) (WUBrG with 4 Spell Queller, Eladamri's Call, Samut)
02-15-2017 Alexeezay (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?23898-Trade-Pod-(Tradewind-Rider-Birthing-Pod)&p=991547&viewfull=1#post991547) (WUBrG with 4 Meddling Mage)


A potential core to support deckbuilding



Here is the previous version of this section: https://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?32280-M-O-S-T-Merieke-Opposition-(Survival)-Tradewind-Rider&p=1109069&viewfull=1#post1109069

The purpose of the core is a) to hold the deck together in terms of some basic synergies, tutors and establishing the manabase, and b) offer the minimal required interactions a deck needs to be able to not get run over by the most competitive decks.

My basic approach to deckbuilding is to start with a core of the deck, it should have:

1. The creature tutors: 1 Green Sun's Zenith

In practice, I usually add about 4 cards in total from GSZ and Aether Vial. Both are fantastic cards but they don't have synergy with each other, and they introduce a bit of a deck-building tension between each other. If you play 4 GSZs, you want to have mana dorks to help you smooth out the mana base, but if you play both mana dorks and max out on Vials, your deck tends to have too many mana elements. Also, they both are better the more creatures you can fit in the deck, so if you maximize both GSZ and Vial you have less space for creatures and less space for interaction (FoW, StP etc).

When reading a decklist, the creature tutors tell you how the deck will play out. However, when you build the deck, you need to start by choosing which creatures you want to play, and depending on those creatures you can choose between Vial or GSZ. So in my latest deck, I want to run Nadu as a threat and value engine, potentially as a combo element too, and being able to find Nadu with GSZ is very good, and I also want to be able to ramp into Nadu using Birds of Paradise, so therefore I ended up playing 2 GSZs. There was also a question of the meta game being very fast with a lot of Dazes and Wastelands, so establishing extra mana in the early turns seemed extra valuable. Therefore, I ended up scaling down to 3 Vials, Vial is great against Wasteland and counterspells but it's also relatively slow and if you need to interact quickly, a mana dork will get you ahead on mana quicker than a Vial, also it will help you play your removal around Daze.

2. Interaction: 4 Swords to Plowshares, 2 Ice-Fang Coatl, 2 Force of Will, 1 Endurance

Depending on which threats are most popular in the format you want to pick some relevant interaction for that. Since Reanimator strategies are currently very popular, some amount of Endurance and Force of Will seem important, considering that deck can present a game-winning threat through reanimation as early as t1-2. Also, since Psychic Frog and Tamiyo are very popular, having 1 mana removal is very important so you can remove these threats before the opponent starts drawing cards, and potentially play around Daze while doing so from t2.

3. Card selection if additional to tutors: 2 Once upon a Time, 3 Brainstorm.

I've come to play 2 Ounce upon a Time in many lists because they help establish the manabase in the early turns, digging for a fetchland so I can get the basics I need to play around Wastelands, but they can also find a t0 Endurance if my opponent goes for an early graveyard strategy or they can find a blue creature to pitch to a Force of Will. They also play very well with flash creatures, there are many good flash creaturese to play (Samwise, Phelia, Coatl, Endurance, Solitude) and if the timing is wrong to play them (maybe opponent is holding up removal or a Bowmasters) that provides a good opportunity to fire off the OuaT at end of opponent's turn.

I've settled for 3 Brainstorms in recent lists because I don't want to have a lot of card draw vs Orcish Bomwasters, that can be a real blowout, but also because I play so many cantrips in Abundant Growth and Ice-Fang Coatl. And Brainstorm also competes with OuaT and then a whole range of non-creature spells you want to add to the deck to reliably answer your opponent's threats. The ability to dig deep for an extra land for no cost in the starting hand is the reason I prefer the second OuaT over the fourth Brainstorm, that will help make more starting hands playable. Firing off a t1-2 Brainstorm and Brainstorm-locking yourself with no second land is a sure way to lose a game of magic.

4. Hatebears: 1 Leovold, Emissary of Trest
I currently enjoy having access to a Leovold since I play 1-2 copies of GSZ and Spellseeker to find GSZ. Being able to protect Leovold with a Karakas is very valuable, and having Vial to put Leovold into play can also be a very strong effect, both against fair decks and against combo decks that need to dig for an answer. Since The One Ring is a very popular card that is finding it's way into new decks, having a card in your deck that is almost always relevant in every matchup and that stops The One Ring seems like a reasonable inclusion in the core. Leovold also helps provide a colored card in hand to pitch to Endurance and Forces.

5. Threats: you need to consider which threat you want to base your build around, but it's not necessarily part of a general core of the deck, it's rather a part of the core you'll be trying to build around.

In my recent deck-building, I have been building around Nadu, Winged Wisdom so I'd add 1 or 2 Nadu to the core of the deck.

6. Other tutors: Spellseeker

Since Swords to Plowshares is so essential against the most popular decks, both Frog tempo, Reanimator (with Frogs usually), against Eldrazi decks, and against Nadu combo decks, having a tutor that can act as your fifth StP but that also can find your sideboard instants and sorceries, GSZ for threats or hatebears, it seems valuable enough that I always want to have it in the deck.

Other tutors to consider: Knight of the Reliquary, Wight of the Reliquary

7. Mana fixing and mana sources: 2 Aether Vial, 3 Abundant Growth, 2 Karakas, 3 Prismatic Vista

There is so much value in bouncing your legends to get extra etb-triggers for value or to protect your legends for opposing removal that I wouldn't play less than 2 Karakas. Playing a 4 color deck, having access to Prismatic Vista that can guarantee access to any color for the rest of the game is very valuable.

Other considerations are Birds of Paradise, Generous Ent, Troll of Khazad-Dûm.

I'll add here Stinner's description of his list, it has some general recommendations that can be considered a core:

[Had to cut this to free up some space, access the link by clicking Stinner]



Groups of core cards by functionality



Link here to previous version of this section which was a bit more extensive, also discussing the deck's recent evolution and common cards in different colors: https://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?32280-M-O-S-T-Merieke-Opposition-(Survival)-Tradewind-Rider&p=1109072&viewfull=1#post1109072

• Alternative mana sources: ~10 cards
Aether Vial, Once upon a Time, Abundant Growth, Lorien Revealed, Troll of Khazad-dûm, Generous Ent, Birds of Paradise, Noble Hierarch, Green Sun's Zenith, Dryad Arbor, Oliphaunt, Eagles of the North, Angel of the Ruins
Comment: there used to be mixed opinions on playing Aether Vial in this deck, as of now it's relatively established in most versions. Here you can find previous discussion on this: http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?23898-Trade-Pod-(Tradewind-Rider-Birthing-Pod)&p=856704&viewfull=1#post856704

• Tutors and card selection: 8-10 cards (overlapping with above)
Brainstorm, Once upon a Time, Green Sun’s Zenith, Recruiter of the Guard, Fiend Artisan, Fauna Shaman, Sylvan Library, Imperial Recruiter

• Card advantage engines: 2-5 cards
Phelia, Exuberant Shepherd, Eternal Witness (when coupled with Phelia, Ephemerate or Lagrella), Meren of Clan Nel Toth, Atris, Oracle of Half-Truths, Sylvan Library, Leovold Emissary of Trest, Flame of Anor, Sauron's Ransom, Overlord of the Balemurk, Soulherder, Satoru, the Infiltrator, Basim Ibn Ishaq

• Removal: 4-10 cards

I'd run at least four Swords to Plowshares and one artifact and enchantment removal, but probably much more. It's really depending on which the most popular threats are of the format and which card advantage permanents you want to be able to answer.

Cards to consider how you can interact with include: Nadu, Winged Wisdom, Psychic Frog, Tamiyo, Inquisitive Student, Broadside Bombardiers, The One Ring, Orcish Bowmasters, Urza's Saga, Up the Beanstalk, Kaldra Compleat. You used to have to focus on beating Umezawa's Jitte but it has now been replaced by first Plague Engineer and then Orcish Bowmasters which you probably need to build away vulnerability to.

The removal:
Swords to Plowshares, Prismatic Ending, Solitude, Orcish Bowmasters, Fury, Ertai Resurrected, Plague Engineer, Abrupt Decay, Umezawa’s Jitte, Witch Enchanger, Qasali Pridemage, Knight of the Autumn, Haywire Mite, Witherbloom Command, Sheoldred's Edict, Fatal Push, Drown in the Loch, Tranquil Frillback

Some alternatives that have fallen out of favor: Orzhov Pontiff, Izzet Staticaster

• Hatebears: 4-7
Gaddock Teeg, Merieke Ri Berit, Leovold, Emissary of Trest, Orcish Bowmasters, Hullbreacher, Meddling Mage, Opposition Agent, Vendilion Clique, Phyrexian Revoker, Magus of the Moon, Sanctum Prelate, Shalai, Voice of Plenty, Collector Ouphe

• Graveyard-interaction
Scavenging Ooze, Dauthi Voidwalker, Kunoros, Hound of Athreos, Lion Sash, Agatha's Soul Cauldron, Callous Bloodmage, Jirina, Dauntless General

• Protection: 3-8 cards
Mother of Runes, Giver of Runes, Peacekeeper, Baleful Strix, Force of Will, Spell Pierce, Negate, Spellskite, Spell Queller, Shalai, Voice of Plenty

• Finishers: 0-1 cards
, Seasoned Dungeoneer, Undermountain Adventurer, Caves of Chaos Adventurer, Mirror Entity, Sublime Archangel, Rafiq of the Many, Shaman of the Great Hunt, True-Name Nemesis, Brightling, Narset, Enlightened Exile, Raffine, Scheming Seer, Jin-Gitaxias

• Utility: 4-5 cards
Phelia, Exhuberant Shepherd, Lagrella, the Magpie, Flickerwisp, Charming Prince. Also, I'm not sure where to put it so I'll put it here: Mockingbird

Cards that have been power-crept, more or less, providing untapping: Scryb Ranger, Quirion Ranger

Comment (a bit old comment about tap-effects): These are often key cards of the deck, although if your list is focusing on ETB effects they become a little less useful, still however excellent. The rangers triple up on the activations of each creature with a tap effect in the deck, since you can activate a ranger's ability during the opponent's turn too. The perhaps most useful applications are Mother of Runes for board control and protection, and using it to get 4 mana out of a single land and mana dork, extremely resource efficient. Other examples of applications are doubling up on tutoring with Fauna Shaman, good if you try to use a graveyard based combo or synergy such as using Volrath's Shapeshifter; the rangers turn Merieke Ri Berit into a killer machine and win condition since you can untap her with her first activation on the stack to put a second copy on the stack, taking control of several creatures; you can use Tradewind Rider (rarely played lately) to bounce 2-3 lands per turn to create a soft lock, keeping your opponent on 1 land for the rest of the game. The Scryb Ranger provides more utility, flashing in to fizzle a Wasteland is common as is blocking Strix/Delver/Clique or carrying equipment, but the Quirion Ranger can be fetched more easily. Adding Soulherder to the deck puts more focus on etb-effects than tap-effects, so depending on which effects you focus on you may want to run 1 or 2 copies.

• Lifegain or damage prevention: 0-1 cars
Uro, Titan of Nature's Wrath, Scavenging Ooze, Umezawa’s Jitte, Batterskull

Older, power-crept alternatives: Atraxa, Praetors' Voice, Brightling, Rhox War Monk, Ikra Shidiqi, the Usurper

• Control elements: 0 cards (these have run out of favor)
Glen Elendra Archmage, Opposition, Tradewind Rider
Comment: Tradewind Rider and Opposition have fallen out of favor but are still powerful options, consider if they are right for your meta. Both cards are actually weak to Terminus.

• Boosting your team: 0 cards (these have run out of favor)
Shaman of the Great Hunt, Shalai, Voice of Plenty, Orzhov Pontiff, Murkfiend Liege, Wilt-Leaf Liege

• Planeswalkers: 0-4 cards
Grist, the Hunger Tide, Teferi, Time Raveler, Minsc & Boo, Timeless Heroes, Jace, the Mind Sculptor
Comments: Planeswalkers will tend to be slightly suboptimal in the deck (unless it's Grist, the Hunger Tide), if you can find a creature with a similar ability that is probably better due to the tutorability provided by Recruiter/GSZ/Artisan/Fauna Shaman, protection from Mother of Runes, reusing thanks to Meren, Eternal Witness, Pre-war Formalwear or Overlord of the Balemurk, and being playable through Aether Vial.

Older, power-crept alternatives: Venser, the Sojourner, Domri Rade, Nissa, Steward of Elements, Garruk Relentless, Captain Sisay


Other options to the core cards:

When considering which cards to add to your list you generally want the card to fullfill as many of the following requirements as possible (basically common sense):
- The card is a relevant topdeck in a lot of matchups independent of other cards in the deck. The more generally relevant a card is, the better. Fauna Shaman does loosen this requirement but many games will be played without an active Fauna Shaman. Playing Brainstorm in your list, of course, further loosens this requirement.
- Choose cards that have synergies with as many of the other cards in your deck as possible. A practical way of working with this is consider packages of cards. An example is Scryb Ranger which has synergy with any creature with a tap effect, which is most creatures in the deck, while also having a combo-like synergy with Merieke ri Berit (who's not "supposed to" untap).
- Cards that don't have much synergies with the other cards should have some very strong effects. Examples are Sylvan Library and Force of Will.
- When adding a combo element to the deck, the cards included should preferably be as few as possible and individually relevant.


Removal:

Plague Engineer, Plaguecrafter, Plague Mare, Granger Guildmage, Umezawa's Jitte, Kolaghan's Command, Shriekmaw, Vengeful Pharaoh, Jeska, Warrior Adept, Kamahl, Pit Fighter, Plaguebearer, Big Game Hunter, Matsu-Tribe Sniper, Stalking Leonin, Drana, Kalastria Bloodchief, Magus of the Scroll, Masticore, Dimir Charm, Izzet Charm, Tetsuo Umezawa, Giltspire Avenger, Basilisk Collar, Devout Witness, Ulvenwald Tracker, Pia and Kiran Nalaar, Palace Jailer, Fleshbag Marauder, Merciless Executioner, Ravenous Chupacabra, Hostage Taker, Brutal Cathar
Comments: the red legends are hardly playable, I've been thinking of combining them with Necrotic Ooze, in that case you don't have to play them but can use their ability through the Ooze. Vengeful Paraoh has very nice synergy with Fauna Shaman.


Artifact and/or enchantment removal:
Loran of the Third Path, Tranquil Frillback, Outland Liberator, Cathar Commando, Westfold Rider, Tear Asunder, Haywire Mite, Hostage Taker, Kogla and Yidaro (maybe relevant if you can cheat it into play), Dauntless Dismantler

Hatebears:

Lavinia, Azorius Renegade, Notion Thief, Linvala, Keeper of Silence, Eidolon of Rhetoric, Alms Collector, Spirit of the Labyrinth, Leonin Arbiter, Aven Mindcensor, Grand Arbiter Augustin IV, Council of the Absolute, Scab-Clan Berserker, Nimble Obstructionist, Scheming Fence


Tutors:

Fauna Shaman, Recruiter of the Guard, Imperial Recruiter, Fiend Artisan, Eladamri's Call, Stoneforge Mystic, Muddle the Mixture, Yisan, the Wanderer Bard, Living Wish, Glittering Wish, Dimir Infiltrator
Spellseeker package: Forth Eorlingas, Green Sun's Zenith, Ephemerate potentially with Eternal Witness, Test of Talents


Discard and hand disruption:

Vendilion Clique, Riptide Pilferer, Kitesail Freebooter, Tidehollow Sculler, Needle Specter, Gwendlyn di Corci, Dimir Cutpurse, Bloodhusk Ritualist, Ana Battlemage, Distended Mindbender, Thought-Knot Seer
Comment: there is also the combination of Leovold, Emissary of Trest or Notion Thief with Magus of the Wheel or similar creatures.
Thought-Knot Seer is pretty hard to cast and playing it would require some innovative choices. Cards that help cast Thought-Knot Seer could be Aether Vial, Magus of the Library, Cavern of Souls


Card advantage:

Soulherder, Meren of Clan Nel Toth, Atris, Oracle of Half-Truths, Up the Beanstalk, Fblthp, the Lost, Sylvan Library, Leovold Emissary of Trest, Shaman of the Great Hunt, Keranos, God of Storms, Squee, Goblin Nabob, Edric, Spymaster of Trest, Vizier of the Menagerie, Descendants' Path, Magus of the Will, Shigeki, Jukai Visionary, The Reality Chip, Augur of Autumn, Disciple of Bolas, Squadron Hawk, Questing Druid, Loot, the Key to Everything


Card draw or filtering:

Edric, Spymaster of Trest, Vizier of the Menagerie, Dark Confidant, Heartwood Storyteller, Runic Armasaur, Kefnet the Mindful, Sky Hussar, Magus of the Library, Forgotten Creation, Mentor of the Meek


Utility:

Thousand-Year Elixir, possibly next to Trophy Mage, Retreat to Coralhelm, Crystal Shard, Kiora's Follower, Rhythm of the Wild


Protection:

Archangel of Tithes, Judge's Familiar, Mausoleum Wanderer, Selfless Squire, Mardu Ascendancy, Sylvan Safekeeper, Mirri, Weatherlight Duelist, Crackdown, Saryth, the Viper's Fang, Shalai, Voice of Plenty


Permission:

Daze, Unified Will, Spell Pierce, Counterspell, Negate, Mystic Snake


Finishers:

Saskia the Unyielding, Mirran Crusader, Scarab God, Gheist of Saint Traft, Samut, Voice of Dissent, Rhonas the Indomitable, Hero of Bladehold, Wren's Run Packmaster, Wolfbriar Elemental, Kefnet the Mindful, Erebos, God of the Dead, Thassa, God of the Sea, Desecration Demon (can be untapped with the Rangers to ignore the tapping effect), Purphoros, God of the Forge


Combat creatures:

Glissa, the Traitor
Comments: Glissa can rule the battlefield in some matchups and come in with Vial to block-kill an attacking creature, with the benefit of bringing back Vials, Strixes and Jitte from the graveyard for free. She also has very nice synergy with Walking Ballista.


Boosting your team:

Nissa, Voice of Zendikar,


Life gain or damage prevention:

Selfless Squire, Spike Weaver, Angus Mackenzie, Obstinate Baloth, Thragtusk, Kitchen Finks, Knight of the Autumn


Other mana producers:

Sylvan Caryatid, Magus of the Librayr, Rishkar, Peema Renegade, Shaman of Forgotten Ways, Rofellos, Llanowar Emissary, Selvala, Heart of the Wilds


Matchups

This section has not been updated for a while. I think how the matchups play out will heavily depend on how you build your deck for them so it's difficult to go through.
Here is an archived version of this section: http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?32280-M-O-S-T-Merieke-Opposition-(Survival)-Tradewind-Rider&p=1082090&viewfull=1#post1082090

Sideboard considerations

Vs combo or control:

Force of Will, Flusterstorm, Mindbreak Trap, Invasive Surgery, Swan Song, Zur's Weirding, Meddling Mage, Sanctum Prelate, Invasion of Gobakhan


Vs combo:

Ethersworn Canonist


Vs control decks:

Choke, Stasis, Winter Orb, Invasive Surgery, Keranos, God of Storms, Klothys, God of Destiny


Vs removal heavy decks:

Shapers' Sanctuary, Steely Resolve, Dense Foliage, Bubble Matrix, Absolute Law, Kira, Great Glass-Spinner


Vs mana denial:

Carpet of Flowers


Vs graveyard strategies:

Leyline of the Void, Surgical Extraction


Vs artifact-heavy decks:

Collector Ouphe, Aura Shards


Vs burn strategies:

Kambal, Consul of Allocation, Absolute Law, Sanctum Prelate


Vs lands strategies:

Magus of the Moon, Fulminator Mage


Vs big creature strategies:

Gilded Drake, Meekstone, Merieke ri Berit, Plaguecrafter


Decks that share some features with MOST or that can be used for inspiration

Basically, any creature heavy deck with Vials or tribal deck contains synergies that can be used by MOST too. Below decks are ordered by thread number.

ATS (Angry Tradewind Survival): http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?2616-Deck-ATS-(Angry-Tradewind-Survival)-Former-DTB
Cephalid Breakfast: http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?6564-Deck-Cephalid-Breakfast Also: Intro to updated CB 2020 (https://article.hareruyamtg.com/article/39389/?lang=en)
Full English Breakfast: http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?7685-Deck-Full-English-Breakfast
Faerie Stompy: http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?16742-Deck-Faerie-Stompy
Grand Architect (modern deck): http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?27544-Grand-Architect
Mono-blue Martyr: http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?27812-Hatch-s-Mono-Blue-Martyr
Stoneybrook's Alarm, Wizard to Opposition: http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?28568-Project-Stonybrook-s-Alarm-Wizard-to-Opposition!
Oracle Opposition: http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?30866-Oracle-Opposition
Trophy Mage control: http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?31210-Trophy-Mage-Control
Stilljutsu, UB Ninja Still: http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?31714-Stilljutsu-UB-Ninja-Still
Faerie Ninja Still: http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?31974-Faerie-Ninja-Still-(Mono-Blue-Tempo)
Humans, 1: http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?32058-Humans-(SCG-Modern-Open-Winner-undefeated)
Humans, 2: http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?32156-Legacy-Humans
Standing Vial: http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?32328-Standing-Vial
Spicy Popcorn: http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?32346-Spicy-Popcorn
Wizards (Eternal Durdles): http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?32367-Wizards-From-Hipsters-of-the-Coast-Podcast&p=1042761#post1042761
Spirit Tribal: http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?32491-Primer-Deck-Spirit-Tribal

Below decks are not Source-threads:
Vial Wizards (Modern): https://www.channelfireball.com/articles/woo-brews-modern-vial-wizards/, here is a video explaining the deck: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2Uc9iAWBOW0&feature=youtu.be
Esper Vial: Reddit-discussion (https://www.reddit.com/r/MTGLegacy/comments/fhwtfm/esper_hatebears/)
BUG Vial: MTGO 5-0 decklist 041120 (https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/mtgo-standings/legacy-league-2020-04-11#utopia_mycon_-)
A modern deck: Yorion (https://www.mtggoldfish.com/archetype/256981#paper)


Possible combos

When considering a possible combo, it's been my experience that it's good to make the combo into a minimal package, say 2 cards preferably, and it's very important to pick a combo where the cards are individually good and have synergy with the rest of the deck. This can be difficult to do. I like Aluren as a combo enabler, because you already play most of the creatures for value and Bowmasters is a good wincon that we already want to play. It's still a dead card by itslef, but the instant speed win is pretty powerful. I have seen Witch+Oracle combo played in BUG and Esper Vial with several copies of cards, and Cephalid Breakfast which is quite similar to MOST/Vial is very dedicated to the combo. Abdel Adrian seems very promising, but it's not available on MTGO for testing yet.

• Thassa's Oracle with Divining Witch, Paradigm Shift (good with spellseeker) or Inverter of Truth, Jace, Wielder of Mysteries
• Abdel Adrian, Gorion's Ward with Animate Dead, Dance of the Dead or Necromancy. Note that the reanimation enchantments create a card advantage engine when you reanimate Yorion with them (enchant Yorion in the graveyard, when it comes in then exile the enchantment so Yorion goes back to the graveyard and also flicker any other permanent for extra etb triggers, and the loop lets you redo this at every end step).
• Displacer Kitten with Teferi, Time Raveler and Mox Opal or Mox Amber
• Necrotic Ooze or Agatha's Soul Cauldron with any of the following:
Devoted Druid, Quillspike
Phyrexian Devourer, Triskelion, Walking Ballista
Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
Tree of Perdition, then you need a way to deal the last damage.
• Loyal Retainers or Apprentice Necromancer with any Legendary card
Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite, Emrakul, the Aeons Thorn
• The above combo could be run similarly in a Spellseeker package such as Entomb with Shallow Grave and Emrakul, the Aeons Thorn where the combo could perhaps be tutored up while hiding behind a Teferi, Time Raveler which can even bounce Spellseeker to get both parts of the combo. Also, Fauna Shaman could replace Entomb here.
• Volrath’s Shapeshifter or Vesuvan Drifter, Phage the Untouchable or Vesperlark and a sacrifice outlet for infinite sacrificing (like Carrion Feeder)
• Aluren, Cavern Harpy, Recruiter of the Guard, Imperial Recruiter, Orcish Bowmasters, Orzhov Pontiff, Sedraxis Alchemist. If playing this version it may be a good idea to maximize cards that have synergy with Aluren and Cavern Harpy, such as: Orcish Bowmasters, Orzhov Pontiff, Baleful Strix, Coiling Oracle, Vendilion Clique, Bone Shredder, Spellstutter Sprite, Trinket Mage
• Heliod, Sun-Crowned, Walking Ballista
• Heliod, Sun-Crowned with Scurry Oak or Walking Ballista
• Grand Architect, Pili-Pala
• Zameck Guildmage or Vizier of Remedies or Melira, Sylvok Outcast or Rhythm of the Wild, Varolz the Scar-Striped, Kitchen Finks, Murderous Redcap, Glen Elendra Archmage, Falkenrath Aristocrat
• Varolz, the Scar-Striped, Phyrexian Dreadnought, Death's Shadow
• Dreadnought as a combo, or rather synergy, threat: Can be run with blue enablers such as Stifle and Tishana's Tidebinder, or with Hushbringer, Stern Proctor.
• Volrath's Shapeshifter / Lazav, the Multifarious / Vannifar, Eolved Enigma with Phyrexian Dreadnought
• Archangel of Thune, Spike Feeder
• Painter's Servant, Grindstone, Trinket Mage
• Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker, Pestermite, Deceiver Exarch, Necrotic Ooze
• Knight of the Reliquary, Retreat to Coralhelm. Not quite a combo but it allows you to grow the knight huge quickly, while allowing for other tricks with Retreat.
• Chain of Smog, with Witherbloom Apprentice or Sedgemoor Witch or Guttersnipe, where Spellseeker can be used to tutor for Chain of Smog.
• Conspicuous Snoop, Boggart Harbinger, Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker, Sling-Gang Lieutenant
• Amalia Benavides Aguirre, Wildgrowth Walker.
• Devoted Druid with Swift Reconfiguration or Hazel's Brewmaster for infinite mana
• Yawgmoth, Thran Physician with Hapatra, Vizier of Poisons
Support cards: Bitter Reunion can be useful for reanimation strategies, since it's both a discard outlet and gives haste to either reanimating creature or the reanimated creature (not both, I believe).


Protecting your combo

Mother of Runes, Giver of Runes, Sylvan Safekeeper, Teferi, Time Raveler, Veil of Summer, Allosaurus Shepherd, Legolas's Quick Reflexes, Kutzil, Malamet Exemplar, Ranger-Captain of Eos

You could also run Spell Seeker with Veil of Summer, Orim's Chant or other similar Silence-effects, or maybe a more flexible Flusterstorm


Synergies to build upon

• Lands

Knight of the Reliquary, Elvish Reclaimer, Wight of the Reliquary, Karakas, Gaea’s Cradle, Cavern of Souls, Ramunap Excavator, Sylvan Safekeeper, Tireless Tracker, Scryb Ranger, Titania, Protector of Argoth, Dryad of the Ilysian Grove, Azusa, Lost but Seeking, Weathered Wayfarer, Flagstones of Trokair, Urza's Saga

Comment: Karakas is probably the best land and it's an automatic include in any version with white in it.

There are groups of mainly green creatures with powerful land synergies that are worth considering. You can setup a nice powerful game-winning group of 2-3 creatures that are individually good but collectively great. Sylvan Safekeeper with Titania is game-winning, and Sylvan Safekeeper begs for a Ramunap Excavator to get more lands to sacrifice. Dryad of the Illysian Grove with Ramunap Excavator to replay Wasteland is also potentially backbreaking.

You can play KotR or the Reclaimer to tutor for any useful lands in your deck, they also tend to improve the previously mentioned synergies. Reclaimer becomes a ramp engine if you play Flagstones of Trokair, but it's better if you have many Flagstones in your deck, and Flagstones is perhaps not great in a deck with heavy color-requirements on the manabase. I've been trying WUBG-lists with 1 Reclaimer and 1 Urza's Saga to get that value in matchups when you're hit by heavy attrition. It also makes the case for a maindeck Nihil Spellbomb to occasionally have t1-interaction vs graveyard-based decks (very common). Saga finding Aether Vial is a pretty good baseline for the card, you're always happy to have another vial in play. I tried something like this: 1 Elvish Reclaimer, 0-1 Knight of the Reliquary, 1 Urza's Saga, 1 Shadowspear, 1 Nihil Spellbomb, 0-1 Retrofitter Foundry. Shadowspear is nice both because of lifelink buying you time to turn games around, trample giving you a little extra offensive power, and for removing indestructability giving you more consistent answers to The One Ring and Kaldra Compleat.
The user Angelbaka on Discord suggested to use the synergy between Quirion Ranger/Scryb Ranger and Yavimaya, Cradle of Growth to replay lands like Urza's Saga and Mystic Sanctuary. Maybe it's also good with Bojuka Bog and Sejiri Step. Yavimaya also works with Submerge, which is being run with Up the Beanstalk.


• Legends, Karakas, Aether vial

Legends, Karakas and Aether Vial are very powerful together for using etb effects of legendary creatures many times. Perhaps Deligthed Halfling has allowed for a more dedicated legendary focus of MOST by both ramping, which is important because many of the best legends are with CMCs of 3 or more, and by making them uncounterable which is important for allowing to play more expensive threats.

Playing Karakas and having a way to tutor for it, or running multiple copies, is very good next to legendary creature silver bullets. Especially if you also play Vial, e.g. you can replay Clique during each of your opponent's draw steps to create an uncounterable soft lock, or Venser to bounce an expensive spell your opponent is trying to resolve.

Venser, Shaper Savant, Barrin, Tolarian Archmage, Ertai Resurrected, Yorion, Sky Nomad, Samwise the Stouthearted, Atris, Oracle of Half-Truths, Lagrella, the Magpie, Loran of the Third Path, Vendilion Clique, Mangara of Corondor
Pia and Kiran Nalaar, Fblthp, the Lost, Breya, Etherium Shaper.

Phelia, Exuberant Shepherd, Leovold, Emissary of Trest, Edric, Spymaster of Trest, Glissa Sunslayer, Glissa, the Traitor,

Some other good cards to support legendary builds, also legendary threats that can be protected with Karakas: Delighted Halfling, Raffine, Scheming Seer, Captain Sisay, Mox Amber
Comments: Note that Captain Sisay can tutor for any planeswalker too, but most tap effects are not so relevant anymore. And Mox Amber allows for playing a combo with Displacer Kitten and Teferi.


• Graveyard based synergies, reanimation strategies etc (or more generally strategies for cheating a monster into play)

Agatha's Soul Cauldron, Necrotic Ooze, Volrath's Shapeshifter, Dimir Doppelganger, Scarab God, Arcane Artisan, Varolz, the Scar-Striped, Loyal Retainers, Goblin Welder, Mimeoplasm, Volrath's Shapeshifter, Apprentice Necromancer, Karador, Ghost Chieftain, Order of Whiteclay, Magus of the Will, Coffin Queen, Hell's Caretaker, Lazav, the Multifarious, Vesuvan Drifter, Priest of Fell Rites, Dermotaxi

Volrath's Shapeshifter does enjoy: Generous Ent, Troll of Khazad-dûm, Oliphaunt
Comments:

Necrotic Ooze is a fantastic card for this deck, since Fauna Shaman puts anything into the graveyard, most abilities of your creatures are activated abilities so even without trying Necrotic Ooze is likely to be a super creature by the time you get access to it during a game. Meren of Clan Nel Toth is another card slot in the deck that utilizes the graveyard by bringing the creatures back into play. If you look further down you will find that there are a lot of combos and strong synergies with Necrotic Ooze that are worth considering. Some cards provide good enough synergy from the graveyard that you could consider playing them just to get value from Necrotic Ooze, one such option could be Zacama, Primal Calamity (or Minion of Leshrac) who first takes care of any bothersome creatures, then any equipment or lock pieces the opponent may have and then starts gaining you life.

Agatha's Soul Cauldron works well with Necrotic Ooze, probably even better than it. Ooze benefits from if you can vial it in, which leaves the opponent unable to interact if you have a game-winning combo element in the graveyard, but Cauldron is probably better in most scenarios. It's slower in the sense that you can only use it with one creature effect per turn, while Ooze potentially wins at instant speed as soon as it enters the battlefield with the correct setup. However, it serves double duty as graveyard interaction, is cheaper to play and doesn't die to creature removal.

Another card that deservs its own section is Volrath's Shapeshifter. A couple of players devote themselves to Shapeshifter versions, building on the tradition of the deck Full English Breakfast. VS mixes utility and combo potential in a fascinating way that gives the player a lot of opportunity to outplay the opponent. Here are some cards that work well with it: Phage the Untouchable, Sheoldred, Whispering One, Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite, Master of Cruelties, Uro, Titan of Nature's Wrath, Kroxa, Titan of Death's Hunger

Unfortunately, Orcish Bowmasters makes Volrath's Shapeshifter look a little vulnerable. It still has great potential but can be more easily handled, requiring a bit more setup. It's possible that Vesuvan Drifter is a better option although manipulating the top of the library is usually more difficult, Brainstorm and Sylvan Library can do it and otherwise unplayable tutors like Wordly Tutor. Sterling Grove is probably playable in an enchantment-focused list, so if there's an artifact- or enchantment creature that's worth cheating into play (such as Cityscape Leveler, maybe Phyrexian Fleshgorger because it's a nice flip with Charming Prince flickering it once it's played as a card), that could be an approach allthough it's a quite heavy deck-building restriction to get Sterling Grove in there.


• Tap-effects

This used to be a deck that could maximize value from tap-effects, but as card design evolved tap-effects have become less viable. Magic is changing from a game where card pieces interact on the board, in a chess-like fashion, and you try to maximize value from the scarce resources you have, to a game more focused on trading resources and out-valuing the opponent where every card comes with card advantage and removal and sweepers are cheap and efficient with few efficient protection options. So, many tap-effects we used to play have become too risky to play. It's probably worth revisiting once in a while, as new synergies can increase their power level. For example, Tyvar not only offers pseudo-haste to creatures which is extremely valuable for tap-effects, he also can circumvent removal by bringing a creature back from the graveyard.

Some cards that still have very valuable tap effects: Goblin Welder, Goblin Engineer, Fiend Artisan, Dauthi Voidwalker, Divining Witch (beware of Bowmasters though), Patron Wizard (a pet card)

Cards that allow a deck to maximize value from tap-effects: Scryb Ranger, Quirion Ranger, Tyvar, Jubilant Brawler, Derevi, Empyrial Tactician, Agatha's Soul Cauldron, Hazel's Brewmaster, Drumbellower, Prophet of Kruphix

Tap effect creatures that may be difficult to use due to power creep of creatures, card advantage and removal (including Orcish Bowmasters who machine guns x/1s): Merieke Ri Berit, Tradewind Rider, Mother of Runes, Giver of Runes, Fauna Shaman, Mangara of Korondor, Skrelv, Defector Mite


• Haste-effects

Providing haste helps make tap-effects more powerful, since they can't be stopped with removal only.
Bitter Reunion, Anger, Goro-Goro, Disciple of Ryusei, ,


• Amplifying etb-effects

Elesh Norn, Mother of Machines, Aboleth Spawn, Dynaheir, Invoker Adept


• Adventures

What separates Fauna Shaman from most of the available creature tutors is that it brings creatures from your library into your hand. This ability is quite useful together with creature adventure cards, so I thought I'd list them here. This is making me think of adding a copy or two of Fauna Shaman back into a list.
Brazen Borrower, Horned Loch-Whale, Questing Druid, Murderous Rider, Twining Twins, Stormkeld Vanguard, Mosswood Dreadknight, Kellan, the Fae-Blooded, Elusive Otter, Bramble Familiar, Decadent Dragon, Scalding Viper, Heartflame Duelist, Cruel Somnophage, Devouring Sugarmaw, Beluna Grandsquall, Gumdrop Poisoner, Pollen-Shield Hare, Bonecrusher Giant, Guardian Naga, Horn of Valhalla, Virtue of Knowledge, Fae of Wishes, Shrouded Shepherd, Gingerbread Hunter, Threadbind Clique, Spellscorn Coven

Not creature adventures but still interesting: Virtue of Persistence, Monster Manual, Virtue of Loyalty


• Changelings

Changelings fit with most creature type-based synergies. It's also possible to consider some effects that are strong enough that you would include only one creature with that type, and effect, and use multiple changelings in a deck. Some examples are Magda, Brazen Outlaw (there are already Magda decks with no other dwarves in legacy), Najeela, the Blade-Blossom (there are also Najeela decks with a couple of warriors and changelings), Crystalline Sliver (giving all changelings hexproof is pretty good) and Retrofitter Foundry.
Changelings: Unsettled Mariner, Mirror Entity, Changeling Outcast, Mothdust Changeling, Universal Automaton, Masked Vandal, Valiant Changeling, Roaming Throne
Comments: Unsettled Mariner is a decent hatebear that protects you against Tendril's of Agony, discard and removal, especially if you combine it with some mana denial like Thalia, Daze and Wasteland. Additionally, it's a changeling that synergizes with any creature type effect you may play. Mirror Entity may be overkill, but the ability to turn all your creatures into a creature type could be very powerful, not to mention boosting all your creatures for a potential immediate win.
Other potential payoffs: Patron Wizard, Breeches, Eager Pillager


• Dwarves

The dwarves are usually only played together with a bunch of changelings to support the theme. Magda has such a powerful effect, putting out lotus petals every time a changeling is tapped, which can be built around. Here's a video of a Magda deck (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jgmDWAIuuVk).
Magda, Brazen Outlaw, Dwarven Recruiter


• Wizards

Patron Wizard, Flame of Anor, Nadu, Winged Wisdom, Barrin, Tolarian Archmage, Venser, Shaper Savant, Tamiyo, Inquisitive Student, Meddling Mage, Snapcaster Mage, Step Through, Ertai Resurrected, Spellstutter Sprite, Voidmage Prodigy, Qasali Pridemage, Vendilion Clique, Izzet Staticaster, Glen Elendra Archmage, Grim Lavamancer, Dark Confidant, Sylvan Safekeeper, Thornscape Battlemage, Zameck Guildmage, Mangara of Corondor, Master of Waves, Trinket Mage, Trophy Mage, Aphetto Grifter, Surgespanner, Cursecatcher, Martyr of Frost, Zameck Guildmage, Sage of Fables, Derevi, Empyrial Tactician, Boros Reckoner, Aven Mindcensor, Azorius Guildmage, Master Biomancer, Marchesa, the Black Rose, Ana Battlemage, Magus of the Library, Mistcaller, Merfolk Trickster, Reflector Mage, Naru Meha, Master Wizard, Naban, Dean of Iteration, Siren Stormtamer, Champion of Wits, Dreamstealer, Nimble Obstructionist, Baral, Chief of Compliance, Harbinger of the Tides, Jace, Vryn's Prodigy, Disciple of Bolas, Galecaster Colossus (which can be used from the graveyard with a Necrotic Ooze if you don't get to hardcast it), Archivist, Cloudkin Seer, Kess, Dissident Mage, Malevolent Hermit, Mistmeadow Vanisher, Vindictive Flamestoker, Obscura Interceptor, Garth One-Eye, [cars]Wastescape Battlemage[/cards]
Comments: The deck already likes to play a lot of wizards, sometimes up to ten wizards in the main deck. At that point, with the inclusion of one specific card, the Patron Wizard, you can effectively lock down many decks or at least prevent them from playing the game efficiently. Note that Quirion and Scryb Ranger help out by untapping wizards. Voidmage Prodigy has a similar effect.


• Clerics

Shadow-Rite Priest, Tourach, Dread Cantor, Anointed Peacekeeper, Edgewalker, Guide of Souls, Alms Collector, Archivist of Oghma, Orzhov Pontiff, Mother of Runes, Weathered Wayfarer, Containment Priest, Vizier of Remedies, Academy Rector, Ethersworn Canonist, Angus Mackenzie, Auriok Champion, War Priest of Thune, Children of Korlis (this actually answers Tendril's of Agony from turn 1), Mikaeus, the Lunarch, Skirsdag High Priest, High Priest of Penance, Leonin Arbiter, Remorseful Cleric, Kemba, Kha Enduring, Sanguine Evangelist,
Comments: Shadow-Rite Priest seems promising, boosting all other clerics while also providing a black Natural Order effect which can find for example Atraxa. Edgewalker is also an interesting card if you can run som clerics that cost WB.


• Soldiers

Personally I feel like Harbin makes soldiers tribal an interesting proposition, considering that if you have 5 of them in play to attack with, that is likely a win, and getting to 5 can be easy with Recruiter, Thalia and Lieutenant counting. At the same time, Harbin by itself is a 2 mana flying 3/2, which is pretty good, and it can be protected with Karakas which seems more like an advantage than a disadvantage. However, you may want to play Wastelands in such a build, but considering it's a white weenie variant you probably would do that anyway. The recentn print Greymond also seems quite powerful. Vial him in, give all your creatures vigilance/first strike and lifelink, then attack for a bunch of lifegain while if you had 3 humans in play before him, you get a +2/+2 boost to them. And he also can be protected with your own Karakas.
Harbin, Vanguard Aviator, Greymond, Avacyn's Stalwart, Thalia, Guardian of Thraben, Lagrella, the Magpie, Jirina, Dauntless General, General Ferrous Rokiric, Skystrike Officer, Recruiter of the Guard, Valiant Veteran, Esper Sentinel, Boromir, Warden of the Tower, Thalia's Lieutenant, Brimaz, King of Oreskos, Ranger-Captain of Eos, Grishnákh, Brash Instigator


• Warriors

Najeela, the Blade-Blossom, Elvish Reclaimer, Undermountain Adventurer, Kutzil, Malamet Exemplar, Ajani, Nacatl Pariah, Rushblade Commander, Mardu Woe-Reaper, Dreadhorde Butcher, Chief of the Edge, Chief of the Scale, Bramblewood Paragon, Arashin Foremost, Pelt Collector, Fleshbag Marauder, Goblin Chainwhirler, Goblin Cratermaker, Grand Warlord Radha, Boromir, Gondor's Hope, Varolz, the Scar-Striped, Grim Flayer, Samut, Vizier of Naktamun
Some have played this with Magda, Brazen Outlaw and changelings like Unsettled Mariner and Mirror Entity (they work in any tribal deck).


• Rogues

Earwig Squad, Opposition Agent, True-Name Nemesis,Brazen Borrower, Grenzo, Dungeon Warden, Edric, Spymaster of Trest, Bitterblossom, Tetsuko Umezawa, Fugitive, Thada Adel, Acquisitor
Comments: Earwig Squad seems like an interesting addition to the deck, a potential gamewinner vs combo and also good vs control, but it's hard to find enough Goblins and Rogues, that are good enough to play without the Squad, to make it reliable. I'll list some options here.


• Human

Most of the above creatures are humans. But here are some other notable mentions:
Hostage Taker


• Party (Clerices, Rogues, Warriors, Wizards)

It would be very interesting to play around with Party cards in for example a humans themed deck where you can get both human-synergy and Party-effects, but unfortunately most Party cards are relatively weak. Archpriest and Linvala are fairly powerful; Zagras could be something but probably not.
Archpriest of Iona, Linvala, Shield of Sea Gate, Malakir Blood-Priest, Squad Commander, Zagras, Thief of Heartbeats, ,


• Faeries

Scryb Ranger, Vendilion Clique, Spellstutter Sprite, Bitterblossom, Hushbringer


• Elves

Wirewood Symbiote, Fauna Shaman, Leovold, Emissary of Trest, Edric, Spymaster of Trest, Quirion Ranger, Coiling Oracle, Elvish Visionary, Reclamation Sage, Thornscape Battlemage, Zameck Guildmage, Rishkar, Peema Renegade, Wren's Run Packmaster, Master Biomancer, Deranged Hermit, Glissa, the Traitor, Ezuri, Renegade Leader, Ochran Assassin, Izoni, Thousand-Eyed
Comments: We already play a lot of elves, so even without trying there is some elf theme in the deck. See discussion here: http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?23898-Trade-Pod-(Tradewind-Rider-Birthing-Pod)&p=1032714&viewfull=1#post1032714


• Cats

What makes cat tribal appealing to me, besides for obvious reasons, is that I think Kemba's ability to freely attach equipment to a cat is very good. You need to play cat tribal with Stoneforge Mystic, and then any equipment in play, but especially Kaldra Compleat, will make any cat you play quite threatening. Then Kemba's other abilities, to create tokens and to boost equipped creatures, are just bonuses. Interestingly, there is also potential to run a cross-tribal with clerics and cats. I especially like the Shadow-Rite Priest lord effect and ability to put Atraxa into play from the library at instant speed.
Kemba, Kha Enduring, Alms Collector, Brimaz, King of Oreskos, Kaheera, the Orphanguard, Qasali Pridemage, Lion Sash, Wild Nacatl, Soul of Windgrace, Felidar Guardian, Leonin Arbiter, Leonin Abunass, Leonin Lightscribe, Leonin Relic-Warder, Leonin Shikari, Cauldron Familiar, Wild Nacatl, Gloomshrieker, Jolrael, Mwonvuli Recluse, Leonin Warleader, Feline Sovereign, King of the Pride, Skycat Sovereign, Kutzil, Malamet Exemplar, Diamond Lion, Jetmir, Nexus of Revels, Mage's Attendant, Mirri the Cursed, Mirri, Weatherlight Duelist, Necropanther, Nethroi, Apex of Death, Prava of the Steel Legion, Pride of the Clouds, Prowling Serpopard, Qasali Ambusher, Regal Caracal, Regal Leosaur, Rigo, Streetwise Mentor, Rin and Seri, Inseparable, Roxanne, Starfall Savant, Savannah Lions, Savai Thundermane, Skycat Sovereign, Skyclave Shadowcat, Slash Panther, Snapdax, Apex of the Hunt, stalking Leonin, Streetwise Negotiator, Trove Warden, Vadrok, Apex of Thunder, Wasitora, Nekoru Queen, Whitemane Lion, Kutzil's Flanker


• Artifacts

Goblin Welder, Baleful Strix, Sundering Titan, Wurmcoil Engine, Grand Architect, Batterskull, Thopter Spy Network, Thopter Foundry, Walking Ballista, Spellskite, Trinket Mage, Trophy Mage, Noxious Gearhulk, Ethersworn Adjudicator, Padeem, Consul of Innovation, Memnarch, Scarecrone, Muzzio, Visionary Architect, Mirage Mirror, Vedalken Shackles, Masticore, Leonin Abunas, Arcbound Ravager, Basilisk Collar, Trophy Mage (could be played with Vedalken Shackles, Thousand-Year Elixir, Sword of Fire and Ice, Trinisphere, Glissa, the Traitor, Ensnaring Bridge, Urza, Chief Artificer

It's a bit far off, but Greasfang, Okiba Bosss has a fairly powerful effect. Perhaps it could be used with Goblin Engineer, putting a vehicle such as Parhelion II in the graveyard, then using Fiend Artisan to sacrifice Goblin Engineer for example to tutor up Greasefang.


• Goblins

Krenko, Mob Boss, Grenzo, Dungeon Warden, Grenzo, Havoc Raiser, Goblin Welder, Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
Comments: with a Quirion or Scryb Ranger in play a Krenko by itself can generate 7 tokens over your and the opponent's first turn without summoning sickness, over yours and your opponents next turn you can have another 49 tokens. With a Mirror Entity in play this goes even more crazy.


• Spirits

Mausoleum Wanderer, Spell Queller, Soulherder, Kira, Great Glass-Spinner, White Orchid Phantom, Laelia, the Blade Reforged, Dimir Cutpurse, Geist of Saint Traft, Spirit of the Labyrinth, Eidolon of Rhetoric, Kataki, War's Wage, Skyclave Apparition, Hokori, Dust Drinker, Tradewind Rider, Strangleroot Geist, Shacklegeist, Karlov of the Ghost Council (pretty nice with Scavenging Ooze), Rattlechains, Lingering Souls, Selfless Spirit, Cemetery Illuminator, Abuelo, Ancestral Echo, Agrus Kos, Spirit of Justice, Agrus Kos, Eternal Soldier, Ascendant Spirit, Atsushi, the Blazing Sky, Bell Borca, Spectral Sergeant, Bloodghast, Brago, King Eternal, Malevolent Hermit, Shrouded Shepherd, Deadeye Navigator, Dennick, Pious Apprentice, Dorothea, Vengeful Victim, Drogskol Captain, Eidolon of Blossoms, Eidolon of Countless Battles, Eidolon of the Great Ravel, Elvish Spirit Guide, Evershrike, Fleeting Spirit, Geist of Saint Traft, Generous Visitor, Hateful Eidolon, Kami of Transience, Karador Ghost Chieftain, Karmic Guide, Katilda, Dawnhart Martyr, King of the Oathbreakers, Kyodai, Soul of Kamigawa, Lantern Bearer, Obuun, Mul Daya Ancestor, Spectral Adversary, Spectral Sailor, Thundering Raiju
Comments: Mausoleum Wanderer creates some extra synergy here, and Katilda can be a good threat which can be recast from the graveyard when answered. Spirit of the Labyrinth and Kataki are both potent hatebears. There should be some more things to make this strong enough to be really useful, but a lot of these cards work well individually so we may not be that far away from a playable spirits deck.


• Mana denial

Stasis, Winter Orb, Scryb Ranger, Quirion Ranger, Thalia, Guardian of Thraben, Vryn Wingmare, Derevi, Empyrial Tactician, Hokori, Dust Drinker, Archangel of Tithes, Tsabo's Web, Static Orb, Grand Arbiter Augustin IV
Comments: Stasis combos with the Rangers so you can add it to your arsenal to fight various decks with basically zero deck building cost. The problem in my experience is not so much the usefulness of Stasis as that games become slow and your opponents become frustrated when they can't play. The user Vickas was experimenting a lot with Stasis, so message him if interested, or search for his posts.


• Generating and using a lot of mana

Gaea's Cradle, Rofellos, Llanowar Emissary, Kinnan, Bonder Prodigy,Urza, Lord High Artificer, Grand Architect with Pili-Pala, Shaman of the Great Hunt, Mirror Entity, Knight of the Reliquary, Grenzo, Dungeon Warden, Wren's Run Packmaster, Rhonas the Indomitable, Wolfbriar Elemental, Tyvar the Bellicose, Nissa, Resurgent Animist, Inga and Esika
Comments: generating a lot of mana can be used with mana sinks such as Shaman of the Great Hunt, Rhonas the Indomitable and creatures that can be hardcast using this excessive mana while also spending a few slots to offer a way of cheating it into play such as Natural Order, Loyal Retainers, Elvish Piper et cetera.


• Stealing

Gilded Drake, Merieke ri Berit, Yasova Dragonclaw, Sower of Temptation, Dominating Licid, Grishnákh, Brash Instigator
Comments: Merieke Ri Berit is super powerful in a list based on tap-effects, while Gilded Drake works perfectly in a list with many bounce and flicker effects, letting you steal another creature during each bounce or flicker.


• Bouncing

Karakas, Venser, Shaper Savant, Barrin, Tolarian Archmage, Teferi, Time Raveler, Brazen Borrower, Tradewind Rider, Waterfront Bouncer, Harbinger of the Tides, Reflector Mage, Jace, the Mind Sculptor


• Flickering

Charming Prince, Phelia, Exuberant Shepherd, Soulherder, Ephemerate, Yorion, Sky Nomad, Abuelo, Ancestral Echo, Guardian of Ghirapur, Restoration Angel, Felidar Guardian, Sword of Hearth and Home, Eldrazi Displacer


• +1/+1-Counters

Agatha's Soul Cauldron, Phyrexian Devourer, Walking Ballista, Archangel of Thune, Spike Feeder, Spike Weaver, Rishkar, Peema Renegade, Hangarback Walker, Mikaeus, the Lunarch, Siegehorn Ceratops (with Izzet Staticaster or Granger Guildmage), Steel Overseer, Winding Constrictor, Sage of Fables, Metallic Mimic, Zameck Guildmage, Chasm Skulker, Master Biomancer, Marchesa, the Black Rose, Karlov of the Ghost Council, Strangleroot Geist, Phantom Nantuko, Brokers Ascendancy, Intrepid Adversary, Anim Pakal, Thousandth Moon
Comments: persist-creatures can be sacrificed in(de)finitely if you have an effect providing a +1/+1-counter as they etb. Another combo is provided by Archangel of Thune with Spike Feeder, and another with Walking Ballista and Heliod. Also Agatha's Soul Cauldron provides redundancy in combos with these counters, as well as being a potential combo element with Phyrexian Devourer.


• -1/-1-Counters

Scorpion God, Necroskitter, Grim Poppet, Phyrexian Plaguelord, Quillspike, Devoted Druid, Wickerbough Elder, Phyrexian Hydra


• Enchantments

I've made a rough attempt to group these cards, would need to define these categories better because they overlap. Here's an old attempt at an enchantment-focused list (https://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?32280-M-O-S-T-Merieke-Opposition-(Survival)-Tradewind-Rider&p=1083580&viewfull=1#post1083580).

Utility: Up the Beanstalk, Abundant Growth, Utopia Sprawl, Sylvan Library, Oath of Nissa, Courser of Kruphix, Bitterblossom, Sacred Mesa, Klothys, God of Destiny, Sterling Grove, Urza's Saga, Ranger Class, Wizard Class, Paladin Class, Monk Class

Removal: Oblivion Ring, Banishing Light, Leyline Binding, Touch the Spirit Realm, Ossification, Cast Out, Thin Ice, Swift Reconfiguration, Trial of Ambition, Detention Sphere, Banishment

Hatebears, interactive creatures: Aegis of the Gods, Callaphe, Beloved of the Sea, Doomwake Giant, Eidolon of Rhetoric

Card advantage engines: Setessan Champion, Sythis, Harvest's Hand, Enchantress's Presence, Argothian Enchantress, Eidolon of Blossoms, Shigeki, Jukai Visionary (if you have a second card to bring Shigeki back to your hand)
I prefer Setessan Champion in the deck because it's not only a draw-engine, it's also a significant threat by growing with every enchantment.

Payoffs, engines: Calix, Guided by Fate, Arasta of the Endless Web, Riptide Chimera, Zur the Enchanter, Archon of Sun's Grace, Recurring Nightmare, Destiny Spinner, Kestia, the Cultivator, Tameshi, Reality Architect, Weaver of Harmony, Springheart Nantuko

Threats: Chromanticore, Paradox Zone, Katilda, Dawnhart Martyr, Kami of Transience, Rancor, Audacity, Armadillo Cloak, Generous Visitor

Combos, combo-enablers: Aluren, Food Chain, Academy Rector, Curse of Misfortunes, Sneak Attack
Curse of Misfortunes-targets: Cruel Reality, Curse of Fool’s Wisdom, Curse of Deaths Hold, Overwhelming Splendor, Swift Reconfiguration (with Devoted Druid)
Synergy with Food Chain: Grief (clears the way and ramps into wincon for zero mana), Soulherder (infinite wincon), Questing Druid (infinite wincon)

Sideboard cards: Carpet of Flowers, Leyline of the Void, Rest in Peace, Planar Void, Choke, Back to Basics, Blood Moon, Blood Sun, Stony Silence, Engineered Plague, Leyline of Sanctity
Back to Basics and Blood Moon aren't typically the best cards in the deck, but you can run a basic-heavy list with Prismatic Vista and Abundant Growth if you really want to. Personally, I'm very interested in the idea of turning Choke into a cantrip with Setessan Champion, letting you run it with little cost (if you're lucky).

Other considerations: Mardu Ascendancy, Second Chance, Shared Animosity, Mirri's Guile, Solitary Confinement, Elephant Grass, Exploration, Serra's Sanctum, Wild Growth, Hall of Heliod's Generosity, Replenish, Karma, Gloom, Nether Void, Chains of Mephistopheles, Brain Maggot, Michiko's Reign of Truth, Nylea, Keen-Eyed, Jukai Naturalist, Sanctum Weaver, City of Solitude, Ghostly Prison, Propaganda, Sphere of Safety, Ground Seal, Spirited Companion, Hallowed Haunting, Royal Treatment
Mardu Ascendancy is a Najeela, the Blade-blossom without Warrier-requirement and coupled with Doran, the Siege Tower it would be game-ending, but WBRG isn't so easy to build.

Up the Beanstalk and Abundant Growth can add a critical amount of enchantments to the deck, letting other cards that get value from enchantments become considerations to include. Like Riptide Chimera, a flying 4/3 creature is perhaps not as impressive anymore but it has plenty of targets to draw cards every turn. Setessan Champion has been a favourite card and I built an enchantment nic fit list with it, it has great synergy with Recurring Nightmare I think, RN is already a very powerful card and turning it into a draw engine is pretty sweet. I like Arasta punishing the opponent from playing instants and Sorceries, and you can protect it with Karakas, and there are so many cards here that let you draw a ton of cards, I could see an enchantment build coming together but it may lack some prime threats. Maybe Aluren or Food Chain could top off the list with a potential combo win?


• Tokens

Master of Waves, Wren's Run Packmaster, Hero of Bladehold, Mardu Ascendancy, Bitterblossom, Stonybrook Schoolmaster, Bloodline Keeper // Lord of Lineage, Pharika, God of Affliction, Pia and Kiran Nalaar, Pride Sovereign, Deranged Hermit, Tendershoot Dryad, Reef Worm, Brutal Hordechief, Custodi Soulbinders, Hallowed Spiritkeeper, Najeela, the Blade-Blossom
Comments: couple these with creatures providing boosting, +1/+1+ counters, card advantage upon connecting (e.g. Edric).


• Elementals

Master of Waves, Risen Reef, Nulldrifter, Animar, Soul of the Elements, Nivmagus Elemental, Wolfbriar Elemental, Fulminator Mage, Lightning Skelemental, Nissa, Resurgent Animist, Rumbleweed, Nulldrifter
Comments: Master of Waves is good with e.g. Grand Architect and Patron Wizards so I've been looking for other elementals that may be worth adding to that shell, just to make Master of Waves a little bit better. This is more of a bonus synergy than something to build on, but who knows what can be found here. Recently a lot of elementals were printed, not least Risen Reef which gives a lot of extra value to Elemental synergies so it's worth considering (I briefly tried a list and it was nice but I wasn't convinced).


Packages from above

Below are some of the packages from above, giving an idea of how the deck can be customized.

• Blue artifacts devotion

Master of Waves, Grand Architect, Mausoleum Wanderer, Baleful Strix, Pili-Pala, Walking Ballista, Trinket Mage, Phyrexian Metamorph
Comments: here is a link to a post discussing Grand Architect: http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?23898-Trade-Pod-(Tradewind-Rider-Birthing-Pod)&p=994288&viewfull=1#post994288
This shell works very well with Painter's Servant and Grindstone, with Trinket Mage tutoring for Grindstone and Fauna Shaman tutoring for Painter, and once Painter is in play you can even GSZ for Trinket Mage and you can use Grand Architect to generate all the mana you need to play and activate the combo. It's also sweet how Grand Architect helps you hardcast expensive artifact creatures that alternatively Goblin Welder can weld into play after Fauna Shaman discarded them. You can even play Gaea's Cradle or Rofellos to help out hardcasting them. Batterskull is the best card I found because a) it can be tutored by Stoneforg Mystic which is a strong way of using Aether Vial EoT, b) it's not eaten by Deathrite Shaman (irrelevant post ban), c) it can be played and equiped by Grand Architect, d) welding it in creates a new creature every time.
Here is a link to some discussion about Grand Architect: http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?23898-Trade-Pod-(Tradewind-Rider-Birthing-Pod)&p=994288&viewfull=1#post994288


• Ranger of Eos

Walking Ballista, Hangarback Walker, Flickerwisp, Mikaeus, the Lunarch, Mistcutter Hydra


• Flickerwisp

Ranger of Eos, Recruiter of the Guard


• Recruiter of the Guard

Soulherder, Flickerwisp, Ranger of Eos, Kalonian Hydra, Mistcutter Hydra


• Mono-blue Martyr

The key cards from the amazing deck Mono-blue Martyr are very possible to play as a package in MOST:
Sky Hussar, Martyr of Frost, Nivmagus Elemental, Flusterstorm, Ninja of the Deep Hours, Judge's Familiar, Mausoleum Wanderer, Cursecatcher, Skaab Ruinator


• Ninjas

This section was created with the introduction of Yuriko, who is probably good enough to be the only ninja in your deck, and with a Mirror Entity in play this gets ridiculously good. See the section for similar decks or Mono-Blue Martyr (just above) for more inspiration!
Yuriko, the Tiger's Shadow

• Doran, the Siege Tower

Mardu Ascendancy, Spellskite
Comments: Doran is a very efficient beater by itself at three mana, even if it's usually rather unexciting to play a vanilla beater. It does boost all your 0/1's (BoP and Noble), 3/4's (Meren) and some of your opponent's creatures will lose power (True-Name Nemesis, Delver of Secrets, Young Pyromancer, Vendilion Clique, Thalia, Guardian of Thraben etc). It does make some other cards ridiculously good though. Mardu Ascendancy is a very interesting card, by courtesy of both protecting your team vs sweepers and offering the potential of providing a ton of free attacking goblin tokens every turn. If you have a Quirion/Scryb Ranger around you can use the goblin tokens for chump blocking, maybe you are attacking with fliers, in this case your opponent will have quite some trouble racing you. With Doran around, Mardu Ascendancy sacrifices to give your entire team +3/+3 until end of turn which with your army of creatures probably means you can attack for lethal on the very same turn (you even get extra goblin tokens when attacking, this seems extremely powerful). The disadvantage is that enchantments are hard to find (Zur the Enchanter) and the color combinations is not our favorite.


Examples of online playing

Here's my Youtube-channel where I'll try to upload test games on MTGO with commentary and perhaps later on league games: https://www.youtube.com/@FightingPaperDragons-cy6mr
Andrea Mengucci testing a version of MOST, note that he is rather inexperienced with the deck (April 2017):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NO38jCsXrh0
Another attempt with a more updated list (Dec 2018): https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=6&v=RL21PRZMyUg
Jeff Hoogland playing MOST on stream (30th May 2018):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bjOIPZjMHX0
Phil Gallagher playing 5c MOST on MTGO (Jan 2019): https://youtu.be/8UqKntsRBgw
You can watch streams here: https://www.twitch.tv/pettdan
Co-stream with Mark Strassman/StrassDaddy playin the deck (Oct 2024): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tRYAf2Ws7Hk
Phil Gallagher playing Volrath's Shapeshifter (Dec 2024): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jA5dv5mjsB0


Discord

Join the discord: https://discord.gg/a3HRRhH

Podcasts covering the deck

The dead format episode 25 with Rodney Bedell on 2018-12-18: https://podtail.com/sv/podcast/the-dead-format-podcast/episode-25-m-o-s-t-with-rodney-bedell/

Tournament results

A search for Fauna Shaman and Quirion Ranger on Mtgtop8.com results in the following decks that are all based on Survival of the Fittest. Decks for Fauna Shaman have been linked in the old thread but they were from thecouncil.es which is no longer available.

Survival Bant by Matteo Negrini in 2010:
https://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=530&d=206878&f=LE

Ooze Survival by Nicola Landoni in 2010:
http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=844&d=208289&f=LE

Retainers Survival by Bachiorri Lorenzo in 2010:
http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=789&d=208052&f=LE

Welder Survival by Francisco José Gonzalez in 2010:
http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=772&d=207970&f=LE

Survival of the Moby Team by Letterio Musolino in 2010:
http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=546&d=207039&f=LE

Fauna Shaman-based decklists have been posted on thecouncil.es which is no longer available.

The user Stinner top8-ed with these lists in 2013:
http://www.molulo.it/Deck.aspx?dID=4
http://www.molulo.it/Deck.aspx?dID=24

User Shaden top16'ed at Nebraska's War in late 2017 (list and tournament report: http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?23898-Trade-Pod-(Tradewind-Rider-Birthing-Pod)&p=1031536&viewfull=1#post1031536 )

User Demonic_Pact top16'ed at MKM Rome in March 2018 (list and tournament report: http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?32280-M-O-S-T-Merieke-Opposition-(Survival)-Tradewind-Rider&p=1040384&viewfull=1#post1040384 ).

MTGO:
Dec 2018: A 5-0-list from MTGO was published in December 2018 (list here: http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?32280-M-O-S-T-Merieke-Opposition-(Survival)-Tradewind-Rider&p=1061231&viewfull=1#post1061231 )

Jan 2024: A 5-0-list, my list played by Huntinggjornersen, from MTGO was published in January 2024 (list here: https://www.mtgo.com/decklist/legacy-league-2024-01-127779)



Modern versions of the deck

http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?32617-Modern-MOST
Here's a list with huge overlap with what we normally run: https://www.mtggoldfish.com/archetype/256981#paper
Soulherder and Ephemerate seem to have fuelled a multitude of deckbuilding approaches similar to this deck but in Modern, here's a bant example: http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=42938&d=517319&f=MO

[morgan_coke]

There's a 2 or 3 mana artifact that lets stuff with a "tap" ability activate the turn in comes into play, and also untaps creatures. Can't remember what it's called. Ah, found it Thousand-Year Elixir it's not really good, but it seems like it fits into what you're doing there.

[pettdan]

There's a 2 or 3 mana artifact that lets stuff with a "tap" ability activate the turn in comes into play, and also untaps creatures. Can't remember what it's called. Ah, found it Thousand-Year Elixir it's not really good, but it seems like it fits into what you're doing there.

Thanks for the suggestion! I tried it when it was released, it gives haste which is great but the untap ability is the most useful part of it and Scryb Ranger and Quirion Ranger already provide that while having synergy with Green Sun's Zenith and Fauna Shaman. I'll add it to the list of potential cards to add though. Edit: Maybe it could be played with Trophy Mage, I think it's a bit too slow though.

[Stinner]

Hi.

Great job, Pettdan!
As wrote in the other thread (Trade Pod), I'm the original maker of the deck (based on the old ATS) and I've played since 2008 or 2009.
Best result at time of SofT (and near 80% top 8 of played tournaments):

https://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=530&d=206878&f=LE (top 8 at Ovino 5)

In the last MLL where I've played some (5) tournaments (2013), with 2 top 8:

http://www.molulo.it/Deck.aspx?dID=4
http://www.molulo.it/Deck.aspx?dID=24

I suggest to keep the name (it's a joke: "how many tricks you can do?" "more... sry, MOST" :tongue: (S = Shaman instead of Survival)

The list I'm am playing at the moment (copy from the other thread):

Some considerations about the basic concepts of the deck (born originally when SotF was legal in Legacy and with an amazing win ratio), who have the roots in the structure of the old ATS:

- The low number of lands (14+1 Dryad): it’s permitted by the high number of starters (6 manadorks + 4 GSZ for Dryad + 3 Mother in the current version). The number is not casual but taken from the manabase of a monogreen aggro played by Dario Parazzoli (a very known Italian player, qualified 15-20 times for the PT) in years 1998/1999 and playtested in hundred of games (the great part against me). So, if you know it works, copy and use without another waste of time in order to search the ideal number of lands. I’ve played MOST in hundred of games and yes, this manabase work. The concept is, of course, to fix and to accelerate the mana, but also to have quickly a good number of creatures on the board in order to activate Tradewind and/or Opposition. Furthermore, in the late game it’s best have more % chances to draw a creature to do something (field, food for Fauna Shaman, pitch for FoW) instead of a land. And, yes, maybe a risk vs. a deck that put high pressure on the manabase and have a good race (Canadian, the worst matchup), but… no risks, no glory.

- Is highly recommended that every land in the deck is a forest in order to amplify mana with Quirion and/or Scryb and at the same time save our lands from Wasteland or evade from Rishadan Port (a classical trick to gain tempo and material is to cast Scryb in response to a Wasteland). I’ve seen a Tundra in some lists. This is an apparently mana fixing, but in true this choose will increase the number of times you will take a mulligan (Just the Tundra in opening hand + manadorks and no Mothers = no good for us).

- The pillars of the deck are, in every version: manadorks (of course), Fauna, Tradewind, Mother, Quirion/Scryb, FoW, Peacekeeper, Squee, and GZS. All other cards may change (included Merieke and Opposition, present in the acronym of the name of the deck: originally Merieke-Opposition-Survival-Tradewind).

- Another basic concept is: better a long term-card advantage (for example, Peacekeeper) instead a 1x1 card trade. Every card in the deck must contribute to card advantage real (as seen, Scryb in resp. to Wasteland, activation of Fauna with Squee) or virtual (Mother, Mother + Quirion/Scryb, Meddling Mage and so on). Furthermore, for the Presence of Meddling Mages it’s better for us not choose the most common cards, specially removals (no StP, no Abrupt Decay. Sometimes, if meta requires, I’ve tried Fire//Ice or Izzet Charm).

- Other: FoWs are a must. Legacy is a fast format with an huge number of powerful cards, imho is better to have a life insurance named FoW. The theoretical minimum amount of blue cards in the deck to play FoWs with good % of pitch in the first hand is 16 (I try to play ever from 18 to 20).
- Other: of course a well-balanced toolbox in the main deck in order to have an answer near to everything. Hard, and virtual impossible, but the search for the perfection is a long way... :smile:

The list of the current version I’m playing (with short explanation of the various choices):

Main Deck

3 Mother of Runes (great card, but just 3 instead of full set because useless or near useless in the first game vs. some matchups: ANT, S&T, Eldrazi, Mud, Tron)

1 Peacekeeper (the key card vs. a great part of the decks of the field, think just ANT and High Tide don’t end the game with creatures)

4 Birds of Paradise

2 Noble Hierarch (3-3 to maybe a good balance of manadorks if we are feared for a possible call of Phyrexian Revoker. But, without the problem of Revoker, the better balancing is 4 BoP/2 NH because BoP are better mana fixers for mana offcolor RB (and we need it fast in some situations, for example when we side-in Magus of the Moon vs. Lands or colorless decks) and blockers -of course with Mother- for Delver, Marit Lage and so on)

1 Quirion Ranger

1 Scryb Ranger (1+1 of this incredible couple of similar creatures -the cost itself of they ability is an advantage!- to evade a call of Revoker and to have different casting costs. Of course Scryb is absolutely better than Quirion –flash, fliyng, protection from blue… amazing!-, but thanks to cc1 we will be able to play it in our turn 2 -assume to be starded with a manadork in turn 1- with only 1 land and after have mana to cast another cc2)

4 Fauna Shaman (engine of the deck)

1 Scavenging Ooze (control graveyard, jailer of hated Deathrite Shamans and big beater)

2 Eternal Witness (Regrowth and a tutorable creature in the same card? Yes, thanks! Ever two to have a backup. *Note for Pettdan*: I’m ever in search of space to insert Meren in the deck…  )

4 Green Sun's Zenith (one of the cards Memories have steadily sponsored across the time. I started with 2, then 3, and finally landed to a full set. Think I will never come back. This card grant flexibility -the first golden rule of this deck- and permit to save slots -for example, old versions of MOST played full set of Quirions- and, finally, grant a fast access to some silver bullets in certain matchups, for example Gaddock in turn 2 vs. Dredge to stop a fast Dredge Return)

1 Squee, Goblin Nabob (fuel for Fauna Shaman and, in desperate cases, blocker)

3 Spell Pierce (the card we want ever to see in our second turn after a manadork in first to give coverage to a Fauna. Take note that is one the best card in hand in the lucky opening land+dork, second turn GSZ Quirion, untap and do cc2 or a couple of cc 1 and thanks to Quirion+Dork we have populated the board but have again a virtual counter coverage in the opponent’s turn. Played for a long time the full set, at the moment I am testing 3+2 Negate)

2 Negate (to have more efficient coverage in the middle game, when Pierces becomes near useless)

1 Vendilion Clique (threat to play in eot and combo with Meddling)

2 Tradewind Rider (another engine of the deck together Fauna. Think is simply the strongest card ever print for board control. Flyer, good toughness, and a wonderful bouncing ability. I love it).

1 Opposition (a Silver Bullet recently back in the deck on suggestion of my friend Enrico Polledro. Absolutely great vs. Eldrazi and colorless. Take note: Trinisphere do not work when becomes tapped  ;) )

4 Force of Will (guys, this is Legacy. The great part of decks are fast & furious, to have the possibility to say “not” without mana is priceless. Side it out, with the other counters, just vs. deck that use Vials and Cavern of Souls)

1 Qasali Pridemage (in my opinion the best answer main deck to artifacts and enchantments. See before the other candidates: Reclamation Sage grant card advantage and is great in combo with Tradewind, but we need to play in our turn to answer to something, and often maybe too late. For example: Jitte. Trygon Predator is blue to pitch to FoW, has a continuous effect and is a good beater with flying, but maybe too slow. Again the same example: Jitte. Qasali stay on board and permit to wait until the last possible moment to activate his effect. Of course the best thing would be to have another response to artifact and enchantments in the main deck, but at the moment I’ve not found slot)

2 Meddling Mage (sometimes I’ve played also the full set, but this is possible only if you know perfectly the field and only if the threats of the opponent are homogeneus. For example, to face a BUG with only Decay and Deluge is completely different to face a BUG with a mix of Decay, Fatal Push, Deluge, Marsh Casualties and Golgari’s Charm. The actual choose to run 2 Meddling and 2 Negate sound more balanced)

1 Merieke Ri Berit (Terminator. Pure destruction in combo with Quirion. Take note for the best trick you may play with this amazing and absolutely underestimated creature: imagine a board with Merieke, Mother for safety, Quirion and Scryb and an opponent field of fatties. Ok, we simply activate Merieke target the first, untap in answer with Quirion or Scryb, destruction effect resolve before we have something in control, so nothing happens, tap again Merieke targeting second creature, untap again in answer with the other Quirion/Scryb, then tap for the third time Merry and take all. Have a nice day )

1 Mystic Snake (back after many time in the deck. Have a tutorable counter for middle game is ever a good think. Of course the soft lock combo is with Tradewind)

1 Murkfiend Liege (I forgot to the list another little rule of the deck: every card too mana expensive must be blue in order to pitch to FoW instead to be complete useless in hand in all the situations where we are short of mana. Great finisher, pump up our army and double the effect of Tradewind and Opposition. Finally, but not less important, grant to stay mana open in opponents turn when our manadorks become untapped. Thinking to come back in the deck also Rofellos, Llanowar Emissary.. huge. At the dear old times of SofT a standard play with SofT in play was to take in eot of opponent Anger, discard it, take Rofelloss, play in the turn, tap/untap with Quirion, take Murkfiend Liege and play, attack, end the turn, untap all mana dorks and light a cigar thinking to the Mystic Snake in the deck if the opponent try to breathe )

1 Baleful Strix (new entry. Think maybe good. Fly, blue for FoW, great blocker with Mother, alternative card advantage with Tradewind if we lost Squee for a Deathrite/Ooze and have problems to activate Fauna)

1 Phyrexian Revoker (essential. So many things to call. I’m on the way to put the second in my side)

1 Spellskite (another guy essential in some matchups, and of course really cool if we have Mother: Burn, Infect, Lands, Canadian, all black decks with the new Liliana, also useful vs. all decks with Jitte, giving us time to search an answer)

1 Dryad Arbor (another essential card. We need for the mana acceleration in early game and to valorize the full set of GSZ also in our first turn. Great blocker with Quirion and bounce before damage. Take note: of course in this situation Jitte don’t charge)

2 Windswept Heath

2 Wooded Foothills

1 Misty Rainforest

2 Verdant Catacomb (fetch lands of every type in order to minimize the effect of a possible Surgical Extraction. Take note: Misty in 1x to help us to hide the presence of blue in the deck in the early game. In example: if we start to fetch for basic forest with a Verdant Catacomb and play BoP, it’s hard for our opponent imagine we could have a FoW in hand, this maybe decisive to face a crucial threat)

2 Savannah

2 Tropical Island

1 Taiga

1 Bayou

1 Forest (Taiga is recently back after a long time I’ve played with 2 basic Forests. As I wrote above, in some matchups maybe we must try to have fast access to red mana)


Sideboard

1 Containment Priest (S&T, Reanimator, but also D&T, Merfolks and Goblin to face the threat of Vials)

1 Linvala, Keeper of Silence (D&T, Elves, BUG, Maverick/Dark Horizon, Eldrazi, Affinity)

1 Reclamation Sage (D&T, Enchantress, Sneak &Show, Eldrazi, Tron, Affinity, MUD)

1 Obstinate Baloth (Burn, BUG, Pox, aggro decks)

1 Magus of the Moon (D&T, Maverick/Dark Horizon, Lands, Infect, Eldrazi, Tron, MUD)

1 Plaxmanta (Canadian, BUG)

4 Surgical Extraction (Reanimator, Dredge, Lands, UW and UWr Control, ANT, Show & Tell, Sneak & Show)

1 Gaddock Teeg (UW and UWr Control, ANT, Sneak & Show)

2 Meddling Mage (D&T, but just because we need a lot of cards to put in istead of all counters -the same is true for Merfolks and Goblins- , S&T, Sneak & Show, UW and UWr Control, ANT, Dredge, Eldrazi – a
critical matchup in which is aboslutely crucial to call the fucking Tough-Knot Seer ad soon as possible)

1 Orzhov Pontiff (D&T, Elves, Infect, Pyromancer, all the decks with True-Name Nemesis)

1 Wilt-Leaf Liege (BUG, Pox, all aggro decks to help Murkfiend to pump up our army)

Interesting cards in my watching list: Sanctum Prelate, Leovold, Sylvan Safekeeper+Ramunap Excavator (and + Kinght of Reliquary and 1x Wasteland), Thornscape Battlemage (in order to have another answer to Deathrite. Thanks for the idea, Pettdan! :smile: )

That’s all, friends, hope you will find useful and/or interesting this version of the deck and this guide.

Enjoy! :smile:

An add to the list of the possible planeswalkwer list: Venser, the Sojourner, imho the best for colors and effects. Good mini-combos with Eternal Witness and Glen Elendra Archmage and all the stuff with enter on the board abilities, second ability maybe useful sometimes to tactical moments for a decisive attack, final ability is huge in a deck with a lot of creatures with low cc.
Also cool with Master Biomancer.
An add to the list of Discard and hand disruption: Gwendlyn Di Corci, hard cc because is offcolor, but... cc4 for a body 3/5 and a big effect (think in combo with Quirion and Scryb), maybe interesting.


Big problems of the deck at the moment:

- Deathrite Shaman. Any suggest to introduce main deck cards vs. this guy? Have thinked to Fire // Ice or Electrolyze
- the return of Miracles decks. Maybe the time for Gaddock Teeg to back in to the main deck (but we've a problem vs. the opponents with Karakas in the deck).

[pettdan]

Thanks for the input and feedback, Stinner! I made some updates to the primer. I think I can't add your comments to all the cards (I linked it in the list of recent decklists) but I added parts to the discussion about different cores of the deck. I think each player has their own core, so it's good to have some different versions visible there. Actually meta decisions are important for choosing the core, I battled Miracles for year after year and vs that deck Opposition and Tradewind Rider make little sense and Vial makes much more sense, due to Terminus removing all your resources + vial interacting with and stopping the miracle trigger. So I expect my core may develop due to this, maybe to play Opposition and/or Tradewind again (Tradewind was in my board recently). Actually with Kolaghan's Command being so popular I feel like Vial is less well positioned. Better positioned cards are Bitterblossom, Ranger of Eos (see the section above, can provide loads of value) with Recruiter and Flickerwisp and Hangarback Walker, Granger Guildmage, Thornscape Battlemage.. I have been moving to a card advantage version of the deck, playing a few Recruiters over/in addition to Fauna Shaman. We can even play Kolaghan's Command ourselves, and maybe a Snapcaster to tutor for.. but that almost requires a Brainstorm version.

On the topic of fighting Deathrite Shaman I have spent some time looking for options. He ruins the late game all the time, be that Meren or Squee or Scarab God. So, for one, Scarab God can actually operate with a Deathrite in play, I played it in my last FoW-build some months ago as a finisher to increase blue count but never got to play him, anyway my plan was to Vial him into play EoT meaning you get two activations and can play around Deathrite even without removing Deathrite. Once you get a zombie token or two into play you stop caring about Deathrite Shaman. Other answers are Stoneforge Mystic + Umezawa's Jitte (too good not to play), Izzet Staticaster + Ranger, Grim Lavamancer (we can't reliably fill the graveyard), I've been considering Magus of the Scroll, I've been thinking of playing like 3 Thornscape Battlemage since it takes care of both Jitte and Deathrite, it could be great vs Pile while taking care of Stax and Delvers and Vials and Mothers and... so much. And I want to couple 3 Battlemages with 1 Wirewood Symbiote in that case, so you can even replay it a lot. We'll see. Then there's Masticore, but I think it requires too much mana to the regeneration option around. But that card can destroy everything from Pile while protecting itself and attacking them for the win. This would be with Vial so you can vial it into play with regeneration mana up.

I often play Gaddock in the maindeck actually, unless I'm on FoW's, to battle Storm efficiently in g1. But that is optional I think, both FoW and Gaddock are helpful vs Miracles.

Wow, Gwendlyn... :) Reminds me actually of Tetsuo Umezawa as another Deathrite killer.

[ESG]

This primer really showcases the depth of Legacy's deck-building strategy and options. And this is just one deck! So many options! Well done.

On the topic of fighting Deathrite Shaman, how about Fire Imp? It would be online faster than Thornscape Battlemage. Fire/Ice is also an underrated card that I think is well-positioned.

[pettdan]

Thanks ESG! Glad you like it! Yes, there are seemingly endless possibilities.

Thanks also for your suggestion! The imp is indeed more efficient at destroying a Deathrite, but Thornscape Battlemage does a similar thing, and it can also be used without red mana (we play little red usually) to destroy an artifact which can be even more important than getting that shaman, this makes it more flexible, but it doesn't stop there - it can do both and provide sweet card advantage, a 3 for 1.

[Memories of the Time]

Amazing work, pettdan, very impressive =)

For the safe of a standard, up-to-date list the one played by shaden last december was perfect: it's classic (it has FoW, a card strongly debated with many flaws but also some unique features for this deck) but it has vials (here the list and the report: http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?23898-Trade-Pod-(Tradewind-Rider-Birthing-Pod)/page8 ).

As already said, i think that Fow have to be cut, for many reasons. If we don't play Nissa UG (and we should, since it's the best pw for this deck by far) we have no manipulation, and force is often an horrible topdeck. In every situation where we are not already winning (very often). Sometimes it's perfect, of course. Same for other, even worse, counters like negate or spell pierce.

Squee: it could have been barely (very very very very barely) playable if DRS wasn't one of the most common card in the meta, but it is. I can't imagine why we should discuss him again in a meta so fast and so harsh where, if you can activate Fauna Shaman 1 time, that should be almost enough.

Opposition and Tradewind are two cards that really belong to the past, sadly. Oppo could be awesome against tempo and midrange, but oooops -> Leovold.

Ah, Leovold. We should play him at least as a 2x, with 3-4 gsz. It's a strong card and here, in this deck, it's even better.

[pettdan]

Thanks! It was about time for a primer. Hopefully it will make someone try the deck.. If you want to add something just write and post here or message me.

There's not a core specified in the post you suggested though, I have written about what I consider a core and I added Stinner's description to that section. You are most welcome to write down what you consider a core and I'll add it. For full decklists those will be linked in the decklist section, I think that works better. The deck is messy and hard to understand and describing a core is supposed to help with that. I'll consider it though... On the topic of core of the deck, I think I'll actually try a few more dorks and less lands... I've had problems with starting hands with lots of lands and no ramp, it's hard to play.

I agree about the cards, to some extent, I've been playing Leovold since its release I think and you're rarely unhappy with it. Squee, yes, Meren is probably much better anyway. I'm not sure about the exclusion of Opposition and Tradewind Rider, though I didn't play them much for a long time, with Miracles no longer the uncontested best deck we don't have to build the deck with Terminus in mind, so both Opposition and Tradewind Rider can be at least considered again (like I think I wrote recently in the old thread). An opponent's Leovold, reducing the value of said cards, can be handled in many ways. Like our own Leovold, for example.

[Weapon X]

TL;dr

So is this just trying to update tradewind survival?

[pettdan]

This has been a non-survival deck since at least 2011 it seems so "trying" is a bit misinformative. But I guess you can see it that way.

[Stinner]

Amazing work, pettdan, very impressive =)

For the safe of a standard, up-to-date list the one played by shaden last december was perfect: it's classic (it has FoW, a card strongly debated with many flaws but also some unique features for this deck) but it has vials (here the list and the report: http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?23898-Trade-Pod-(Tradewind-Rider-Birthing-Pod)/page8 ).

As already said, i think that Fow have to be cut, for many reasons. If we don't play Nissa UG (and we should, since it's the best pw for this deck by far) we have no manipulation, and force is often an horrible topdeck. In every situation where we are not already winning (very often). Sometimes it's perfect, of course. Same for other, even worse, counters like negate or spell pierce.

Squee: it could have been barely (very very very very barely) playable if DRS wasn't one of the most common card in the meta, but it is. I can't imagine why we should discuss him again in a meta so fast and so harsh where, if you can activate Fauna Shaman 1 time, that should be almost enough.

Opposition and Tradewind are two cards that really belong to the past, sadly. Oppo could be awesome against tempo and midrange, but oooops -> Leovold.

Ah, Leovold. We should play him at least as a 2x, with 3-4 gsz. It's a strong card and here, in this deck, it's even better.

I disagree.
Squee is the best fuel for the engine of the deck (Fauna), we play it in safe way in the forst game vs. all decks of meta without Deathrite Shaman and also when we face the damned 1/2 we can play around searching a solution (tipically Revoker, best if protected by a Mother, but also an active Tradewind, best if after the bounce we play a Meddling to solve the problem).
Opposition maybe useless vs. certain decks (es. ANT, but dont forget it's blue, so in the first game may be recycled to pitch on a FoW) and I've not used for a long time, but I've recently tested again and vs. Eldrazi and colorless is probably the best card you can play to control the board.
Tradewind belong to the past... LOL. It's the game winner in the great part of the games, it's a great control of the board card and the number of tricks you can do with the bounce ability is amazing (just considering our permanents: Eternal Witness, Mystic Snake, Peacekeeper in eot for our attack and then play again it, Stasis in eot to untap, Vendilion, Meddling/Revoker to call other, Reclamation Sage, Obstinate Baloth, Plaxmanta, Orzhov Pontiff, Gaddock if we need absolutely to play a FoW), I've wrote you countless times: what you describe is another deck, the Most work with these cards, and work with these cards because I've make the deck and choose the name. That's all.
Leovold is a nuisance, but if you reverse the perspective, ooooops => Merieke. Thx for the old Leo, and have a nice day! :smile:

@Pettdan: no problem for the Modern list, I'm working on comments... stay tuned! :smile:

[Matsu]

Just curious. Why not use Deranged Hermit.
You play GSZ/SotF to fetch silver bullets, wincons, etc.
Turn 4 Opposition/Tradewind rider into turn 5 Deranged Hermit was pretty powerful 15 years ago.
I think it still is powerful with some mana acceleration. Hermit is 5 bodies for 5 mana and 9F in the board at the end.

[Memories of the Time]

@Stinner: even if you have created the deck 8 years ago, you can't say "play tradewind or it's another deck", since
1) it's nosense, tradewind isn't in any way a 4x core card that shapes the rest of the deck (like Delver, for example)
2) It's a card that the majority of people who have played this deck has discarded, for good reasons: you can play and defend it, but that's all.
3) in any case, we are talking about similar decks with a core made by:
-Few lands and many dorks
-Many creatures that work togheter and few non creature spell
-Control/prison archetype with many flexibility

These are the basic points that make posting here reasonable, as showed in the last years of discussion. In any way Tradewind is mandatory

Edit: I want to clarify this point to avoid further problem. None has even remotely the authority or the results behind him in the last years to make statement like "this is it or it's another deck".
A narrow mind is the nemesis of this deck

[pettdan]

@Matsu: Thanks for the suggestion! I'll add Deranged Hermit it to the tokens synergy section, and the Elves section. It certainly works well with Opposition and Tradewind Rider, no doubt about it. On the other hand, once you've ramped into those cards you already have lots of creatures in play, making Deranged Hermit perhaps somewhat slightly a win-more card. A weakness of the deck is being vulnerable to sweepers, and Hermit Druid doesn't really help with that. So you may be better off playing something to protect the creatures you have rather than adding to them with a Hermit Druid. I've considered it and seen it mentioned before but don't remember that much of the discussion actually, it's an interesting card.

@Memories and Stinner: I think we have to accept different versions and even different cores of the deck being played. I would even consider this a strength, assuming people actually play the different versions. I suggest we all nurture our cores and versions; give me input and I'll include them in that section of the primer, and I need to do some editing there to make that section more clear. You can also add your arguments to why you prefer the very core or version that you create. Yes, like Memories says, when a version puts up significant results we should probably focus on that. I was actually running very hot with my lists when I picked the deck up again during the autumn in 2016 but it has cooled off since.. Also, an important factor when discussing cores is how much they are actually being played. I tend to post when I have played with the deck, I encourage you all to do so too, regardless of good or bad results. And if we could have some MTGO action recorded that would be even sweeter..

[Demonic Pact]

Hello, long time lurker from the old thread here posting for the first time...

First of, massive thanks for the time and effort put into this primer, it's excellent work.

I've been playing the deck for about a year, during which time I've tried and changed a lot of things. But it's always been immensly fun and incredibly rewarding to pilot. All your decisions matter, from deckbuilding to playing and it leads to some excellent blowout stories ;)

Here's my current list:
Creatures (29)
1 Dryad Arbor
3 Mother of Runes
2 Deathrite Shaman
2 Birds of Paradise
4 Fauna Shaman
2 Scryb Ranger
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Spellstutter Sprite
1 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Qasali Pridemage
2 Leovold, Emissary of Trest
1 Orzhov Pontiff
1 True-Name Nemesis
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Spell Queller
1 Renegade Rallier
1 Atraxa, Praetors' Voice
1 Glen Elendra Archmage

Other Stuff (14)
4 Aether Vial
4 Brainstorm
3 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Umezawa's Jitte

Lands (17)
4 Windswept Heath
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Wooded Foothills
2 Savannah
2 Tropical Island
2 Bayou
1 Tundra
1 Forest

Sideboard (15)
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Gilded Drake
1 Merieke Ri Berit
1 Meddling Mage
1 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Big Game Hunter
3 Faerie Macabre
1 Reclamation Sage
2 Sanctum Prelate
1 Meren of Clan Nel Toth
1 Wilt-Leaf Liege
1 Unified Will


It's definitely not final and especially the sideboard changes week in, week out. Obviously the deck is highly customiseable to specific playstyles and metagames. However, I do want to give some comments on some of the cards that have been discussed in this thread:

Aether Vial:
This card is so powerful in the deck. It ramps, fixes, makes dudes uncounterable and most importantly gives everything flash. The largest amount of the decks power lies in its versatility and being able to pass with Fauna Shaman active and a Vial basically means you're holding your entire toolbox and have an answer for anything. It feels amazing. I would highly recommend playing this card.

Brainstorm:
One of the most powerful cards in the format. And I think we are one of the most efficient users of the card for multiple reasons: We have a lot of specific answers to dig for, we sometimes have dead cards to get rid of, we usually have the mana available to play it without slowing down and we have more shuffle effects than almost any other deck that plays it (I have 9 fetch+4 Shaman+3 GSZ).

Force of Will:
I have run 4 of these in the board previously and am not opposed to doing it again. Currently I don't feel like I need them locally and without altering the deck the blue card count is only just enough to make them work. I can't see myself maindecking them unless the meta shifts massively towards combo though.

Opposition / Tradewind Rider:
I wasn't around 5 years or so ago when these were apparently all-stars in the deck. But I can't see them working now, they're just too slow and clunky.

(...) in a meta so fast and so harsh where, if you can activate Fauna Shaman 1 time, that should be almost enough.this is too true. Too often my first activation of Fauna Shaman is to protect itself with a Queller or similar. It's just not feasible to expect to be able to find, deploy, protect and have enough of a board to support something along these 2 reliably imo.

Just some thoughts, glad to have a hopefully somewhat more active place to discuss this amazing deck :)

[pettdan]

@Demonic Pact: Thanks! And thanks for posting, it's really sweet to read!

[Stinner]

Just curious. Why not use Deranged Hermit.
You play GSZ/SotF to fetch silver bullets, wincons, etc.
Turn 4 Opposition/Tradewind rider into turn 5 Deranged Hermit was pretty powerful 15 years ago.
I think it still is powerful with some mana acceleration. Hermit is 5 bodies for 5 mana and 9F in the board at the end.

All correct but (I'm sorry, forgot to wrote this), another of the "rules" of the deck is that every card with cc =/> 4 must be blue.
A card with an high casting cost, in hand in a deck without Brainstorms, is often useless (assume we cannot have ever an active Fauna on the board), if it is blue we can pitch to FoWs.

[Memories of the Time]

@Deranged Hermit: I've played Nic Fit along this deck for years, and the CC5 finisher is debated only if you can't have White and Sigarda.
But we do, so if you need a clock, she's the best

@pettdan: agree on everything

@Demonic Pact: Good list, i'm unsure about the Manabase mix lands/dorks. Moreover, some SFM could be nice in your list, if you want equip.
Pontiff maindeck maybe is not necessary?
Totally agree on Vial, partially on Brainstorm (i'm playing it too)

@Stinner: This assuming that we play Force and not Brainstorm. So this isn't neither a fixed ruler =)

[Demonic Pact]

@Memories of the Time: I've tried SFM and I hate it. It's really, really awkward with only one equipment in the deck. You can also make an argument to remove the Jitte without ways to tutor it up and I think that's pretty fair. But I play Jitte mainly because it's incredibly powerful and very versatile, it's not a toolbox answer I really need to tutor up, it's just...well...really good. If I was tutoring it up, I could almost always just tutor up something else that does the same thing I want my Jitte for, except faster and more efficiently...the Pontiff for example. Which in my experience is one of the best cards in the deck. Obviously this depends on the metagame you play in, if you're playing ANT and S&T every round, it'll suck. But it's excellent against Grixis Delver, Czech Pile, Elves and Blade decks in particular, which make up enough of the meta here for me to want it. It clears up Pyromancers and their tokens, Strixes, Snapcasters, unflipped Delvers, small Mongooses, True-Name Nemesis (killing this also massively helps not losing to Jitte), most of the D&T deck, basically the whole Elves deck, Bob, etc...it's also reach, it comes up plenty often that you just search it up and add 3 power or so to your Flyers to make your attack lethal.
The manabase I am still open to experiment on. Specifically I'm cutting the Tundra for a 3rd Birds this week. I used to play 3 but moved down to 2 and haven't missed it. I tend to play vs a large amount of mana denial plans and going too low on lands is something I'm wary about. You can make the argument that Birds is essentially also a land that's immune to Wasteland, but keeping a 1 land+dork(s) hand loses you games vs. Waste+Bolt or similar very easily :/

Do you have a list of your own? I'm always happy to see other peoples ideas and what their pros/cons are :)

[shaden]

Hello everyone! First of all thank you very much @pettdan for this immense work you have done.
I think this primer is really complete, and can give a good general idea to those who do not know the archetype and want to look out for the first time.
In the coming weeks I will also resume playing, so that I can contribute to the discussion.

Ever since I started playing this deck I have always been a supporter of the @Stinner list, and in part you agree with the "core" of the deck you tried to write.
some points that I find in disagreement are:
-we can not play deathrite shaman, we need a great deal of mana in the first rounds, we can not be bound by not having land in the graveyard or by a shaman in the opponent's battlefield, so our manadorks are necessarily Birds of Paradise and Noble Hierarch.
-after having tried the FoW in side for some time I have come to the conclusion that I want to play 4 MD always unless I go to a tournament where I know the metagame perfectly and can move them to the side, for this reason I approve the stinner rule, all CC > 3 must be blue.

But, different fron stinner I am in the group of those who play vial, it is not synergistic with scrib / quirion but it has a remarkable intrinsic strength and helps a lot in "friction matchup" to be clear, it saves us in all those games where we would lose from wasteland + bolt and in many other situations.
It is not a perfectly suited card in the bottom strategy of the deck, so I can understand well if someone does not want to play, but I find myself really well and I think you should try it.

[Stinner]

Hello everyone! First of all thank you very much @pettdan for this immense work you have done.
I think this primer is really complete, and can give a good general idea to those who do not know the archetype and want to look out for the first time.
In the coming weeks I will also resume playing, so that I can contribute to the discussion.

Ever since I started playing this deck I have always been a supporter of the @Stinner list, and in part you agree with the "core" of the deck you tried to write.
some points that I find in disagreement are:
-we can not play deathrite shaman, we need a great deal of mana in the first rounds, we can not be bound by not having land in the graveyard or by a shaman in the opponent's battlefield, so our manadorks are necessarily Birds of Paradise and Noble Hierarch.
-after having tried the FoW in side for some time I have come to the conclusion that I want to play 4 MD always unless I go to a tournament where I know the metagame perfectly and can move them to the side, for this reason I approve the stinner rule, all CC > 3 must be blue.

But, different fron stinner I am in the group of those who play vial, it is not synergistic with scrib / quirion but it has a remarkable intrinsic strength and helps a lot in "friction matchup" to be clear, it saves us in all those games where we would lose from wasteland + bolt and in many other situations.
It is not a perfectly suited card in the bottom strategy of the deck, so I can understand well if someone does not want to play, but I find myself really well and I think you should try it.

Hi! :)
Forgot to wrote the part on DRS (access to mana must to be certain), obv totally agree.
Vial: one of the cards i really like, try continuously to put in the deck... and have a big problem. Vial need to be played in 4x and in this deck 4x slots are really many (specially if we have also the problem of the blue count for FoWs).

[pettdan]

Thanks Shaden! Looking forward to hearing how your testing goes! I'll actually try to play it a little more too.

Regarding Deathrite, it has its advantages and disadvantages, I'll add some on that topic to the primer. Probably in a 14 lands and 0 vials version the unreliable mana production is more of an issue, while in a 16 lands 3-4 Vials version it is less severe because you are not as vulnerable. There is also the issue that Deathrite Shaman is the only manadork that survives a Golgari Charm or Zealous Persecution, so how common these are at present will affect how many Deathrites you want to play. I think they were very present when I started increasing the amount of Deathrites in my versions, as it was close to True-Name Nemesis being released, but maybe now is a good time to have a second look at that. Considering these aspects together, and a couple of other that I will adress (most notably having a "free" t1 answer to Loam/Crucible) I think it's apparent that you can have different opinions on how many Deathrites you want to play. Another argument, very weak, in favor of Deathrite is that it's perhaps the strongest creature in the format. This may not convince anyone but I think it can help raise the awareness that the card should not be disregarded so easily.

In my opinion, the choice between Vial or not is a, card by card, trade-off between how much utility and robustness (offered by Vial) you want and how much explosiveness and synergy (offered by mana dorks and GSZ). Every copy of Vial you play over a mana dork or GSZ brings you more of the related features and away from the others, there is no synergy (that I'm aware of) encouraging an all or nothing approach. People often think that cards need to be played as 0 or 4 of and anything in between is a mistake, but this cannot be assumed. I suggest an easy test to verify what the case is: if you can play 8 copies of the card, would you? I surely wouldn't play 8 Vials if I could. So then you realize that the optimal number is somewhere between 0 and 8 copies, not at all necessarily the maximum number of 4. I think it's more a question of how much you like the card, if you like it a lot you want 4, if you don't like it you want 0, for me I appreciate the values of both sides of that trade-off and want to find an optimal balance between them which should help me get good matchups across the meta. The substantial presence of Kolaghan's Command and relative absence of Miracles speaks for less Vials, relatively. But it's not that easy to say, there are more factors and in the end only testing can say what seems to be right.

I think questions like Deathrite or Vial take up a lot of energy of the discussion. It's quite enjoyable with this type of deep discussion, and it's even appropriate now due to shaping the primer. I think after all arguments have been listed to the primer we should try to settle for just playing what we want in our versions, discuss it from time to time when the meta changes or for synergy reasons in your version, but other than that maybe focus on other aspects of the deck. Discussing Deathrite and Vial is like discussing religion.. ;)

One more thing, if someone wants to discuss some specific card, synergy, package or similarly, try to write down a comprehensive discussion and I'll add a link to your post in the primer. Also, small comment only, I think it's a good idea to update old posts with edit comments (like this "[edit: bla bla bla]") to enrich old arguments rather than making a lot of new posts, this is not how posting on the forum is generally encouraged to be but I think it makes for much easier reading. As arguments are spread over several posts they become very hard to read and follow, especially at a later point in time when you want to go back and revisit arguments. This needs to be done with great care of course to not ruin subsequent discussion, and maybe I'm just wrong about this..

[Weapon X]

This has been a non-survival deck since at least 2011 it seems so "trying" is a bit misinformative. But I guess you can see it that way.


I ask because this is a deck where history is important. Rofellos and wall of roots value for example depends on the goal you are after. It helps me to give informed suggestions.

[pettdan]

I ask because this is a deck where history is important. Rofellos and wall of roots value for example depends on the goal you are after. It helps me to give informed suggestions.

I see, well for me Survival of the Fittest is not a consideration, I'm not trying to imitate those old style decks. I started with a Fauna Shaman version of the deck and all my choices are based on that, I don't spend much time looking at old Survival lists. Maybe that answers your question better?

[Weapon X]

4 fauna shaman
3 deathrite shaman
2 birds of paradise
1 quirion ranger
1 wirewood symbiote
1 scryb ranger
1 dryad arbor

3 green suns zenith
1 reclamation sage
1 scavenging ooze
1 deranged hermit
1 spellstuter sprite
1 qusali pridemage
1 phyrexian revoker
1 glen elendra archmage
1 stone forge mystic
1 umezawa's jitte
1 batterskull
3 rhox war monk
2 swords to plowshares
4 brainstorm
1 squee
1 wonder
1 true name nemesis
1 trade wind rider

I think I might use something like this as a starting point for myself. There's a few ideas for routes I'd want to go, meren being my favourite possibility; but some concepts need to be played to be judged. Derevi is also a route I'd be curious about.

[pettdan]

@Weapon X: Test whatever you feel like, I'm guessing as you play the deck you'll start making changes towards what some of the rest of us are playing. But maybe you'll develop a separate version that stands on its own merits.

I'll offer a few suggestions:
- You're low on mana sources, also you only listed 39 cards. Add 3-4 Aether Vials and 16 lands (or 14 lands and 2 mana dorks). You then have 1-2 further slots to add. I think FoW could be nice, you run very few hatebears. On that topic, Leovold is extremely useful.
- I don't think you have enough elves synergy cards for Wirewood Symbiote useful, but you can try it. A Coiling Oracle or Leovold would help motivating it.
- 3 Rhox War Monk is a lot, it seems your aggro plan is to use these with Wonder to fly over and win any damage race. Which means you need to have answers for Deathrite. You have 2 stp and 1 revoker so that's a good start. Some more may even be desired. Most are red though, which may be too high a cost if you play no other red cards..
- Consider if Squee has any advantage over Meren [edit: well you don't have to play it, that's an advantage].
- I would consider Derevi only if you plan to play Winter Orb, Stasis, similar lock pieces, or a couple of cards that benefit from tapping multiple times (you can put all Derevi triggers as untap effects on that card and tap it in between).
- Spellstutter Sprite encourages you to run a second Scryb Ranger over the first Quirion Ranger, it also likes Vendilion Clique which is a generally useful vard, you could play it over the TNN.

Well, start testing and practicing and you'll come up with a lot of changes by yourself. Looking forward to hearing about your experiences!

[Weapon X]

Think I'll be moving into this:

4 deathrite shaman
4 baleful strix
4 coiling oracle
2 leovold
4 fauna shaman
3 cavern harpy
1 parasitic strix
3 aluren
4 brainstorm
4 force of will
1 scavenging ooze
1 bone shredder
1 phyrexian revoker
1 sedraxis alchemist
1 glint nest crane
1 shardless agent
1 umezawas jitte

4 misty rainforest
3 polluted delta
2 verdant catacomb
4 tropical island
2 bayou
2 underground sea
1 forest
1 island
1 swamp

[pettdan]

Well it looks nice but it is probably better without Fauna Shaman, just guessing. Welcome back when you feel like trying MOST again! Or well, you're welcome here with that list too, of course. But probably the Aluren thread will provide you with better input.

[Demonic Pact]

Played the deck at MKM Rome this weekend, made top16 of the main event going 6-2 and it was incredibly enjoyable to play as always :)

Decklist:

1 Dryad Arbor
3 Birds of Paradise
2 Deathrite Shaman
3 Mother of Runes
4 Fauna Shaman
2 Scryb Ranger
1 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Spellstutter Sprite
1 Qasali Pridemage
2 Leovold, Emissary of Trest
1 Orzhov Pontiff
1 Renegade Rallier
1 Spell Queller
1 Sanctum Prelate
1 Vendilion Clique
1 True-Name Nemesis
1 Glen Elendra Archmage
1 Atraxa, Praetors' Voice

4 Aether Vial
4 Brainstorm
3 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Umezawa's Jitte

4 Misty Rainforest
4 Windswept Heath
2 Bayou
2 Tropical Island
2 Savannah
1 Tundra
1 Forest

SB:
2 Faerie Macabre
2 Sanctum Prelate
1 Gilded Drake
1 Merieke Ri Berit
1 Big Game Hunter
1 Meddling Mage
1 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Tireless Tracker
1 Wilt-Leaf Liege
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Mirran Crusader


Here's what I remember from my matches:

Friday trial: 3-1, won 1 bye for the main event.
R1: vs. Czech Pile 2-0
Friend of mine. Close G1, he lands a good Hymn to Tourach and we both mostly run out of stuff. I draw a Leovold pretty quickly that makes his topdecks worse by enough to win me the topdeck war. G2 I just chain must-kill threats (Mother, Fauna Shaman, Leovold, ...) and end up with a Scryb Ranger and a Tireless Tracker left over which is easily enough to outvalue him.
R2: vs. RUG Delver 2-0
Another friend of mine. G1 I survive long enough to vial in Atraxa with double Mother up and he can't beat it. G2 was pretty incredible with a pair of delvers not flipping for a bunch of turns, however the first time they didn't flip he drew Pithing Needle vs. my double Vial basic Forest draw so not much happens for a long time...but long games vs. Delver are almost always favored for this deck so I eventually just out-stuff him.
R3: vs. UR Delver 2-0
He had Stifles and Wastelands...G1 I made it super complicated for myself by playing around Price of Progress with Scryb Ranger all the time and he didn't actually have it in hand...eventually won with Atraxa. G2 he had a removal heavy hand, killing 2 Vials and a few creatures. Eventually ended up with a TNN, a Deathrite and a Scryb Ranger vs. a Pyromancer and a bunch of tokens...but Scryb+Deathrite clock is incredibly fast, plus both attacking and blocking with TNN using Scryb feels like cheating.
R4: vs. Infect 0-2
This matchup still feels hard. It feels almost impossible to beat their good draws. G1 he kills me T3 with a lethal Blighted Agent, G2 I end up in a complicated board state with an Orzhov Pontiff already in play, a Jitte on 2 counters (after attacking) attached to a Spell Queller that stopped his lethal Invigorate the turn prior and some other stuff vs. triple Noble Hierarch and Blighted Agent. My opponent has 1 mana up and 2 cards and I try to figure out what he could have. I'm dead next turn since I'm on 6 Poison, I end up shooting my Pontiff with Jitte, haunting a Hierarch and shooting said Hierarch and lose to Blossoming Defence. I thought of Vines and I forgot that since Blossoming Defence only works on friendly creatures I should have haunted my own Dryad Arbor and killed that with the Jitte to get the second Pontiff trigger which would have played around his 1 Blossoming Defence...ah well, lesson learned ^^


Sunday main event: 6-2, 1 point off top8
R1: bye
R2: vs. Czech Pile 2-0
He takes a Mulligan G1. Kills my DRS and then my Fauna Shaman lives. I play the protect it and build a board game and end up more or less locking him out with a Mother+Scryb+Glen board and mana up all the time. G2 I land a Leovold. Didn't realise how good it actually was until I Cliqued him in his draw step 2 turns later, revealing Brainstorm, Sylvan Library, Jace, Baleful Strix and Scalding Tarn. Draw-step Clique with Leovold in play also feels really dirty btw...won pretty easily from there.
R3: vs. Sneak & Show 1-2
Lose G1 to T3 Show -> Omniscience -> Emrakul. G2 I win by vialling in a Gilded Drake when he Sneak attacks an Emrakul and taking it. G3 I get Pyroclasmed twice and lose.
R4: vs. BR Reanimator 2-1
G1 he shows me a Chancellor, then goes Chrome Mox, land, Unmask himself, Animate Dead Chancellor. It takes me a few turns to get my things into play, I take a couple of hits and eventually trade Atraxa with the Chancellor. At this point I have an Ooze in play so he concedes. G2 He makes T1 Sire of Insanity. I discard my hand, draw Bayou, play it, draw Big Game Hunter and feel amazing when I get to Madness it off of his Sire in my endstep to kill the Sire. Feel less good when he draws another Reanimate the next turn. He kills me with Sire. G3 I have a Faerie Macabre which I hide from Discard with Brainstorm, he ends up not finding any good way to ditch his own cards after though and reanimates my DRS. I play some stuff including Vial, Scryb and Fauna Shaman, he eventually double Rituals out a Chancellor. I endstep get Merieke, vial it in, untap, use Scryb+Merieke to take both his (my) DRS and his Chancellor and kill him from there.
R5: vs. Mono Red Prison 2-1
G1 he has T1 chalice on the play, locking out my mana dorks. The game goes on for a long time, but the only lands I ever find are the 2 I kept: Forest and Savannah. I die to Pia & Kiran after discarding to hand size multiple times with plenty of answers in hand but no mana to cast them. G2 Goes really long. We end up at a boardstate where he has Bottled Cloister, double Bridge and Spyglass on DRS vs. my DRS, Fauna Shaman and Vial. I tutor up removal for Cloister, then get 2 Sanctum Prelates on 3 and 4. He eventually gets cards stuck in his hand due to the Prelates and also can't kill them since his sweepers cost 3 and 4 so I eventually get under the Bridge to kill him. G3 I have a T2 prelate into T3 Teeg hand which looks good but I just get my T2 board killed by Fiery Confluence and 2 turns later lose board again to a Volcanic Fallout. I eventually end up with a Dryad Arbor and a Jitte that kills him after blowing up his Bridge.
R6: vs. Burn 0-2
G1 I keep basic Forest, double Birds, DRS and stuff. He goes T1 Swiftspear into 2 Searing Bloods and Searing Blaze on my 3 mana creatures and I never get to cast a relevant spell. G2 I mulligan and have to keep a rather slow hand. This is the only match all weekend that felt like I couldn't win.
R7: vs. BUG Delver 2-1
G1 I don't remember much. I won pretty quickly. G2 He Hymn to Tourachs twice, hitting Leovold+Mirran Crusader followed by Leovold+Fauna Shaman and then follows that up with a Lily the last Hope. I lose. G3 I go T1 birds, he goes T1 Bayou, DRS. Since Bayou doesn't let him Daze I get to T2 Leovold. Again, don't realise how good it was until I Clique him on T4 revealing double Ponder and Brainstorm among better cards. My T3 play was Scavening Ooze and he's stuck on 2 lands so turning off his Deathrite with Ooze ends up being enough to kill him pretty quickly.
R8: vs. Grixis Delver 2-0
G1 involved a Scryb Ranger doing a lot of work and a Sanctum Prelate on 1, with Fauna Shaman eventually finding Atraxa which ended the game. G2 I remember Orzhov Pontiff killing his True-Name, me tutoring my own TNN to handle his Gurmag Angler and Glen Elendra locking up the game.



Deck felt really good. Also met a bunch of people who were facinated by it so maybe I inspired some of them to give something like this a shot. Can't promise anyone wins but I can promise fun, that's for sure :D I definitely still made some small mistakes here and there but the deck is very complicated to play perfectly so I'm happy slowly progressing towards said perfect play ;) Every card in the maindeck pulled it's weight, the standouts being Aether Vial, Scryb Ranger, Orzhov Pontiff, Fauna Shaman and Atraxa. In the SB, I never ended up needing Thrun. Meddling Mage felt sort of weak, Prelate just does a better job usually. Wilt-Leaf might be too cute but I've been able to tutor it in response to discard before and it usually just ends the game when that happens so depending on how many Hymn to Tourachs, Lilianas and Kolaghans Commands I expect it'll be able to keep it's slot. Satisfied with not having played Force of Will in the 75 as well. I'll probably be experimenting with a few different sideboard cards now but the MD will stay as is for the foreseable future.

[pettdan]

That's awesome, thanks for posting! I'm going to have to test some of the stuff you are doing, it's pretty similar to what I have been playing but skipping taiga and red for a tundra and then a few brainstorms could probably help me.

Edit: One question for you, I've felt that when playing vs Czech Pile everything I play is just removed, then removed, then Snapcaster-removed, then Kolaghan's Command-removed taking my Vial in the process. Even the supposed MVP Leovold has just been a Strix in this matchup, i.e. play him, he eats removal, I get to draw a single card and then he's gone. And vs such an attrition-heavy strategy a change is needed. And I've been thinking that a good approach could be Recruiter of the Guard, Flickerwisp, Ranger of Eos, Hangarback Walker. Using a single card, recruiter, brings you 5 cards in this case, with the Hangarback Walker multiplying into several which they have a hard time dealing with efficiently. Maybe just play several Hangarback Walkers instead. It has good synergy with the Rangers. Of course, if a Mother of Runes survives until end of turn a lot is won, but with their amount of removal and cantrips this seems like a very unreliable approach. I was thinking of using Concordant Crossroads to ensure Mother survives, but it's hard to find a 1-of enchantment. Pile is very popular locally so it cannot be ignored for me.

[Demonic Pact]

Czech Pile doesn't actually play that much removal...usually something like 1 Decay, 1 Edict, 2 Push, 1 Bolt, 2 Kolaghans...and 3 Snap...we have a good amount of things they have to kill immediately (e.g. Mom, Leo, Fauna, Prelate), a few things they have to kill to be able to use Snaps (DRS, Ooze) and most of our things they have to kill eventually...so what I'm trying to say is we have a larger density of things they need to kill than they have removal. And them cantripping to find more removal isn't always enough since they can't usually let you untap with Mom or Fauna for example. Plus I find a lot of Pile players are just willing to hurl removal at most things I play early on...so sequencing creatures to try and get an important one to survive makes a big difference. If I have a Vial, trying to force them into playing main phase removal also helps since it often lets me untap with a Mom/Fauna that you vial in on endstep.
Of course you can very easily lose when they just remove your first few good plays but that requires them having a rather good draw imo. But I've definitely had that feeling you describe of "everything I play just gets removed" vs. them before. In general I feel like the main swing points in the matchup are how many Hymns they play and how well they hit, plus whether or not they run/draw MD Toxic Deluge.

This is the matchup where I really want a value engine like Meren, but their DRS just turn it off :/ The creatures you mentioned should be solid against them, I wouldn't run Concordant Crossroads personally though.

[Memories of the Time]

@Demonic Pact: Clap clap for you, happy to see any version of this deck played to top 16 at a big tournament =)

Nice list, i obv approve Vial, Brainstorm and no Force, still unsure about single jitte, revoker and pontiff in the maindeck, impressions about Sprite?
And ambitious manabase too, with only 3 "real" dorks, but with 3 gsz and 2 drs, made possible thx to Vial obv, and 16 lands... seems risky to me. 2 scryb ranger and no quirion also? How
about it?

Anyway, really interesting and congrats again, will test more in the next days!

[pettdan]

On the topic of Scryb Ranger, I have been playing two as well for the past I think 1,5 years, most of the time, since they are just much better and I don't have the 14 land manabase. So that part makes sense to me.

[Memories of the Time]

On the topic of Scryb Ranger, I have been playing two as well for the past I think 1,5 years, most of the time, since they are just much better and I don't have the 14 land manabase. So that part makes sense to me.


Me too, my opinion is that when you have 3 gsz the flexibility of having 1 Quirion and 1 Scryb is better than 2 scryb. That's all.

[pettdan]

Me too, my opinion is that when you have 3 gsz the flexibility of having 1 Quirion and 1 Scryb is better than 2 scryb. That's all.

That's what I was talking about, I play 3+ GSZ usually and in that context I still prefer the better value of Scryb Ranger. I think I would prefer a Quirion if playing 14 lands, but I've been playing 16+Dryad. Since I tested moving to 2 Scryb Rangers I never regretted it, at least that I recall, but it's a tough decision so the testing results need to guide the decision.

[Demonic Pact]

@Memories of the Time: Here are my opinions on the cards you mentioned, obviously we're talking about the flexible singleton slots here so these will always depend on the metagame you anticipate and end up facing. And I have decent experience playing them, but am still subject to personal opinions and sample size issues, so whatever my opinion on them may be is just my opinion, not necessarily correct/fact...

Jitte: It's just a really, really good card. That's all. It's not a specific answer I feel like I need to tutor up hence I don't run SFM. Let's run through the hypothetical situation where I have an active Fauna Shaman and am getting SFM -> Jitte to answer a specific problem: If I need to kill some X/1s, say some elves, I'll just get Orzhov Pontiff as a more efficient way to do so. If I need to gain life I can just get Atraxa. If I need to kill them quickly, I'll get TNN/Atraxa/DRS+Scryb depending on the situation. Jitte isn't really part of the toolbox, but it's also just never bad. I could almost certainly cut it and I wouldn't feel like I was missing it. But it's always really good when I have it...

Revoker: This has been in and out of my MD a few times. It's easily one of the most underwhelming cards in the MD right now, but it has its uses. Can't fault anyone for not running one though, almost all the things it does can be replicated with other cards.

Pontiff: I really love this card (as you can probably tell by now ^^). Maybe I've just played against too many TNNs, but it just seems to be excellent. TNN, Mom, Pyro and Tokens, Mentor Tokens, Snaps, Strixes, basically all of Elves, half of DnT, unthresholded Mongeese, unflipped Delvers, Dark Confidants, Goblin tokens, etc. It kills so many things and removal is one of the hardest things to come by in this deck in my experience. You could run it in the SB instead. There are some matchups where it's dead, I'll probably always run it MD but it obviously depends on your metagame.

Sprite: This is a pretty nieche card I've come to like. It's main use is to counter a Plow, Push or Bolt on an important creature. But even just at 1 it also hits Brainstorm and other cantrips, Delver, Mongoose, DRS, Mom, Reanimate, Entomb, Petal, LED, Moxes, etc. I've been quite impressed by it. And in my list, countering spells that cost more than 1 happens relatively often. 2 Scrybs, Vendilion and Glen are the other Faeries in the deck...a line that comes up often enough is when you use Fauna Shaman to tutor for Scryb, crack a fetch for Dryad Arbor, bounce Arbor to untap Fauna, tutor away the Arbor for a Sprite and play it for X=2.

Manabase/Dorks: Definitely not sure I'm running the correct configuration. It feels good right now but that's about all I'm going on ^^ Please remind me what Manabase you advocate, iirc it's something like 14 land+Dryad, 6 dorks without DRS, 3-4 GSZ and Vials? I may be getting things mixed up here so please let me know :)
If it is indeed what I mentioned above, you're basically running 2 less lands than me but an additional 1/3 dorks (depending on whether we count DRS...I sort of do count it but I'm aware that it doesn't always work)? IMO that sounds more risky since it's easier to lose to Wasteland in particular...

Scryb/Quirion: Must admit I've never tried Quirion. Scryb is easily one of the best cards in the deck. All 3 keywords you get for the additional mana vs. a Quirion are very, very good. It straight up wins some games by creating blowouts that are only possible because it has Flash. Pro blue is incredible, especially combined with Flying. And flying allows it to chip in at life totals/planeswalkers very often. Still, should probably try a Quirion because of the flexibility you mentioned with GSZ.

[Stinner]

That's what I was talking about, I play 3+ GSZ usually and in that context I still prefer the better value of Scryb Ranger. I think I would prefer a Quirion if playing 14 lands, but I've been playing 16+Dryad. Since I tested moving to 2 Scryb Rangers I never regretted it, at least that I recall, but it's a tough decision so the testing results need to guide the decision.

Of course Scryb taken as single card is absolutely > to Quirion, BUT...
Take for example my list: the presence of the Qurion in a deck with 4 GSZ, allows this very good (and solid) start: turn 1 land+ dork, turn 2 GSZ for Qurion, untap, play the land and play 2xcc1 or a cc2... and after passed the turn I'm in virtual coverage of Spell Pierce.

[Memories of the Time]

Of course Scryb taken as single card is absolutely > to Quirion, BUT...
Take for example my list: the presence of the Qurion in a deck with 4 GSZ, allows this very good (and solid) start: turn 1 land+ dork, turn 2 GSZ for Qurion, untap, play the land and play 2xcc1 or a cc2... and after passed the turn I'm in virtual coverage of Spell Pierce.

Yep that's the important point about flexibility of Quirion: the difference bw cc 1 and 2 in the first 2-3 turns are incredible and it's often an important point to establish our gameplan.

[Demonic Pact]

Had another good result with the deck last Saturday, playing at a local 78 player Legacy tournament and going 5-1-1 into top8. Lost in Quarterfinals.

http://blog.gameplace.ch/3k-legacy-at-lock-and-load/

I ran the same 75 i did in Rome...

Here's what i remember from my matches:

Round 1: 0-2 vs. Czech Pile
Game 1 was close for a long time, i thought through a Liliana the Last Hope which is annoyingly good against the deck...eventually got a reasonable board into play (3-4 creatures) but lost it to Toxic Deluge. He followed up with Jace and ran away with the game.
Game 2 felt brutal, he had Push, Push, Bolt, Golgari Charm, Decay, Kolaghans, Kolaghans, Diabolic Edict as his first plays without playing a single blue card...needless to say that this amount of removal is basically unbeatable.

Round 2: 2-0 vs. Esper Deathblade
Game 1 I get a good board position with a Vial on 3 and a Fauna Shaman as well as some other stuff including DRS. I already had Pridemage blow up his Batterskull and he had SFM, DRS and TNN left. He goes to Abrupt Decay my Aether Vial with 3 mana left open and 2 cards. I really want to keep my vial and tutor Spell Queller to protect it since my life total is still very high and I'm not under immediate threat from his TNN. But if his last 2 cards are Jitte+Land he'll connect with Jitte which kills my tutor. My hand however is very strong with both 4drops which become (temporarily) uncastable if I lose vial and I figure even if he has it I have a good chance of fighting through TNN+Jitte. So I get Queller for the Decay. He then has Land+Jitte so it connects on TNN and kills my Shaman. I start racing the Jitte with Atraxa and Queller in the air and find a Leovold which makes his Jitte activations awkward. About two turns later he has to use his Jitte to survive and either gain life and hope to draw into STP or kill Atraxa with the Jitte through my Leovold. He opts for the second and I get to draw 4 cards. He finds another TNN but I now have Queller and Glen hitting him. I get him to 2 after Jitte activations and win the deathrite war by flashing in Scryb Ranger to kill him.
Game 2 he keeps an awkward 7 with some mana issues. I get off to a quick start, when I clique him on T3 I take his Zealous Persecution which he can't yet cast because he doesn't have white mana in play. He draws the white but ends up too far behind to catch up.

Round 3: 1-1 vs. Big Eldrazi
Friend of mine, we've played a bunch of times so we both mostly know what to do. Game 1 I land a Teeg early which protects my board from All is Dust and Ugin while hindering some of his other cards (Dynamo, Portal)...he however has double Endbringer which I try to fight through for a long time but can't and eventually lose. Perhaps should have conceded sooner to conserve time...
Game 2 he has a TKS, a Sower and an Endbringer fairly early. I take the Endbringer with Gilded Drake. It doesn't do that much for me, but it just destroys me if he has it...he finds another TKS but not much more in the following few turns, I have a fairly big board too and the game is sort of stalled...I take some damage from the actual Gilded Drake though which gets through my Scryb Ranger thanks to Walking Ballista. I have a Leovold, so his Ballista is sort of awkward...I force his hand on the ballista with a Rec Sage before it gets big enough to just outright kill me...he opts to shoot leovold and then most of my board, which draws me a bunch of cards and I land a Fauna Shaman. His next turn he swings 2 TKS, the Sower and the Drake into my board of Fauna Shaman, Clique, Scavenging Ooze and Endbringer (and Aether Vial). I figure a game plan, block/chump in a way to survive and keep Fauna Shaman alive. I go to 1, draw and pass (this is extra turn 1). He attacks with the remaining creatures, I discard Big Game Hunter to Fauna Shaman and cast it with Madness to kill the Sower, get Atraxa, vial it in and block the Drake and survive while killing most of his board. My remaining 2 attack steps are enough to close the game and draw the match.

Round 4: 2-0 vs. Grixis Delver
Game 1 I resolve a Vial but lose both my lands to double Wasteland...however while ticking up Vial I get a DRS and a Fauna Shaman into play. In the meantime he flips a Delver and gets an Angler. i get and vial in a TNN to stop the Angler and then get and vial in Atraxa to eat the Delver. From there I kill him pretty quickly. Atraxa is good <3
Game 2 we both mulligan, don't remember everything but he died with Marsh Casualties in hand which would have been excellent but I was able to play around it by denying him double black by using my DRS to turn off his.

Round 5: 2-0 vs. Enchantress
Not gonna lie, I had very little idea on how his deck works...Game 1 I figured Leovold turning off the draw was good so I Zenithed that on T3 Game 1. I then blew up a pair of Elephant Grass and managed to kill him with some random creatures...
Game 2 I had Turn 2 Ethersworn Canonist which hurt him a lot. I then had Fauna Shaman find me removal for Moat and Solitary Confinement and a Spellstutter for an Enlightened Tutor since that was surely have gotten something bad (Humility or another Moat or whatever)

Round 6: 2-1 vs. Grixis Delver
Game 1 I managed to keep enough lands and dorks in play to cast spells (yay). End up at 5 life vs. a flipped Delver and untap with a Fauna Shaman, a birds, a DRS and 2 lands. I get Scryb main phase to save mana and deal with the Delver. He draws bolt which I counter by searching up Spellstutter. He draws another bolt which I stop by getting Queller and close out pretty easily from there.
Game 2 I get destroyed by DRS into double Daze, double Wasteland. I'm sure I can never beat draws like these from Delver decks :/
Game 3 I mull to 6 and he mulls to 4. He only has one land and a DRS which is turned off by my Ooze so he doesn't get to cast too many spells. I kill him fairly straightforwardly. Mulligan was really rough for him...

Round 7: 2-0 vs. Dredge
I somehow win Game 1 with T1 Vial, put in Dryad, T2 Zenith for Ooze, T3 have 4 mana to use it. His start is good but not super good and he only has 6 Zombies when I untap with the Ooze so the Ooze is enough to survive and turn off everything further he can do.
He then concedes Game 2 to me because he's a friend and he's on 12 points and I'm on 13. So he couldn't make top8 and I was very likely to make it with a win. Thanks :)

I then do make top8, everyone with 16 or more points ended up making it so my breakers didn't end up mattering (they were pretty poor having my loss in Round1...)

Quarterfinals: 1-2 vs. BUG Midrange
Game 1 I have a Mother killed, a Fauna Shaman forced, a Rallier get back Mother which gets killed again, etc. He ends up with DRS, Leovold, Strix vs. my Leovold, Birds, Rallier, however he has no or 1 card left and I have 3 or 4...He draws another DRS and I zenith for an Ooze to turn them both off. I decay his Leovold on his upkeep to deny him the extra draw due to my Leovold which opens the door for attacks and I kill him quickly from there.
Game 2 I mulligan to 5 and get Thoughtseized twice. I end up with one land (basic Forest), active Mother of Runes and a Vial which eventually puts a Leovold in. He kills my Vial. He has a Goyf and a DRS and I use Mother to block the Goyf so he gets to remove my Leovold. I draw into DRS of my own and eventually a second land. I somehow manage to get back into the game due to the incredible mana generation of Scryb with a dork...so I end up with Mother, Mother, Scryb, DRS, Fauna vs. Triple Strix, TNN, Goyf, DRS (or something like that). I go to 5 off the TNN however. My line has me get Orzhov Pontiff on his end step, untap and get the 4 for 1 and stop the TNN which would win me the game. However, when I go to search for the Pontiff it isn't there. I check my sideboard and sure enough I boarded it out. Honestly no idea what I was thinking, it should never be taken out but that sideboarding mistake cost me the game and later the match :(
Game 3 he had a Sylvan library just find him more and more removal. He also found a Jitte and a kicked Marsh Casualties killed what I had left and the Jitte closed from there.


Another fun tournament :) I feel like I played pretty well throughout except for the sideboarding error in the Quarterfinals which left me feeling like an Idiot ^^ I have absolutely no idea what I was thinking, while playing Game 2 the thought that I might have boarded out Pontiff never even entered my mind until I was tutoring for it and couldn't find it, because it's so obviously wrong to take it out ^^ but what's done is done...Happy with the top8 :)

Going to keep playing and want to test the Quirion Ranger as well as some sideboard stuff...suggestions and comments are obviously always welcome :)

[pettdan]

Very impressive! Thanks for a very nice tournament report! Great to have you as an active contributor here! I saw a comment on Reddit about planned recording of playing, I guess you are involved in that? It would be a great resource to have here. I want to record my local tournaments too but haven't gotten close to access to the local store's recording equipment yet..

Maybe you share my idea that we need to prepare for the attrition heavy decks somehow? Or just leave it as it is? I see in your maindeck Renegade Rallier and TNN that are kind of good vs attrition, and a few others that are valuable like Mother, Glen Elendra etc. Also in your board I see Thrun, Tracker, Wilt-Leaf, Crusader and Sanctum Prelate as potentially very good cards. Do you think we need more or just having what's there is enough? Like the occasional Mother surviving t1. Moving something from the board to the maindeck? Etc.

Like I've been writing I think Hangarback Walker, Ranger of Eos or Recruiter of the Guard and maybe Flickerwisp would be good ways to fight this attrition. Hangarback Walker with some way to get it back from the graveyard would be great, but maybe it's futile. Maybe a Ranger of Eos and two Hangarback Walkers would be enough. I like the idea of using Scryb Ranger to grow Hangarback Walker with three counters every turn.

I'll re-read your report later and see if I have some other input.

[DireLemming]

Or maybe Tradewinds weren't such a bad idea ...

There is good logic behind Stinner's (ie. original) version -- it has a bunch of cheap counterspells which help you develop in face of removal. Without them you are down on tempo (average cc of removal in something like Pile is lower than average cc of our creatures), and banking only on threat density and card advantage, but to generate card advantage in this deck you need to have at least somewhat developed board (doubly so for virtual card advantage). Catch 22.

[pettdan]

Hey DireLemming, sweet to have a new poster here! Well, I don't strictly disagree with what you say, I play FoW's from time to time [edit: maybe I misunderstood "cheap counterspell" and you refer to a wider variety, sorry]. But everything comes at a cost. FoWing your opponents Lightning Bolt, when your opponent is playing a card advantage strategy, is perhaps not a very good approach to win a game. That's basically like hymning yourself, with the difference that the opponent only payed CMC 1. Well, on the other hand you get to keep your Mother of Runes alive and that can be very valuable in the matchup. But if they went first, chances are they have a follow up removal on their turn 2. I think I would prefer a couple of Spell Pierces actually, you can go t1 Vial, t2 cast a mana dork and vial in a Mother, use Spell Pierce to protect Mother. However, I considered Hangarback Walker because when they destroy it, using a spell, you get a couple of tokens that they also need to deal with, this can put some pressure on their removal spells and also helps vs their planeswalkers. If they can't destroy Hangarback, you can grow it every turn which makes it into even more of a problem for them. Maybe it's bad, but it seems good to me.

When it comes to Tradewind Rider, that probably doesn't help that much vs Pile, most of their creatures you don't want to bounce since they bring some card advantage on being cast. I didn't get your argument there.

[Memories of the Time]

When it comes to Tradewind Rider, that probably doesn't help that much vs Pile, most of their creatures you don't want to bounce since they bring some card advantage on being cast. I didn't get your argument there.

Agree
And yes, there are plenty of better creature at that CC anyway with fewer cons and a bigger impact. Sadly, ofc, because Tradewind was such a good and tricky creature =)

@Demonic Pact: Congrats again and again, i'm very happy for your results =)
About grinding MU: Obv they're an important point for this deck. In my experience, now that cards like Opposition and Bubble Matrix are no more so usefull (Leovold for the first, Command for the second basically) a big option is the differentiation of our threats: and the main suspects are PW (Elspeth and Garruk Relentless probably)

[Noctalor]

http://mythicspoiler.com/dom/cards/shalaivoiceofplenty.jpg

playable in most?

Btw hi, never really played the deck but helped memories tuning it for like 6 years now

[pettdan]

Hi Noctalor, yeah I thought I recognized your name from tipo1 or something, always nice with some input here.

I was looking at that card too, seems very interesting. Karakas is a problem, but Karakas decks in general are ok matchups, perhaps. Putting this into play with an active Mother is quite strong (it's even strong enough to offer good protection without Mother backup), vialling it in is slow but also very good, not least since it counters not only removal but also discard, Tendrils, Jace and Liliana activations, probably a dozen other relevant effects that I didn't think of yet. It even comes with a super relevant mana dump. Quite worthy of testing, I'd say.

Having this next to Leovold seems pretty rough too, for most fair decks. And with a Karakas around, to protect this and potentially Leovold, what a nightmare, I imagine.

Edit:
@Memories: good point, maybe it's time for some planeswalkers. I've been trying to figure out if there are any options for an enchantment list because I want Bitterblossom, similar to planeswalkers in being hard to deal with and generating increasing card advantage, but didn't come up with anything yet.

[Demonic Pact]

List is now on mtgtop8 for reference: http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=18893&d=318344&f=LE

@DireLemming: Aether Vial produces a lot of tempo. Playing mana dorks also helps. Plus if we're talking about the Pile matchup specifically, them having a mana or two left over after killing your thing doesn't really matter...all they can really do is cantrip, play a strix or activate a DRS...these games go long all the time and are always decided by value not tempo. It's all about trying to get the right things to stick through their removal. I can see the value of Spell Pierce or Negate effects here, I can also see them suck when you draw them in the mid to late game. I've mentioned this before, the average Pile mainboard has around 8 removal spells. That's not that much...sticking a Meddling Mage, Prelate, Leovold or active Mother of Runes shuts out some of those options too. To improve the matchup I would play more value creatures, like pettdan is suggesting.

@pettdan: Yes, comment on reddit about recording is from a friend I plan to do some MTGO videos with in the not too distant future...you mentioned recording at LGS, I could ask, not sure if that would be possible at weekly tournaments...
I can certainly see the need to address the removal heavy decks. I lost to Czech Pile this time, beat it twice in Rome but would say the matchup is pretty close to 50/50, probably slightly unfavored if your opponent is a very good pilot. The Ranger of Eos + Hangarback plan seems solid (or Recruiter of the Guard to find it I guess). I have a friend who plays a lot of Affinity and I've seen Hangarback in action vs. Czech Pile and they absolutely hate playing against the card ^^ I don't think we can rely on getting Graveyard value in this matchup though because of DRS. Flickerwisp I think is a bit underwhelming in this deck, the amount of ETB effects is low and it really only does much if you have a Vial out.

regarding Planeswalkers/Enchantments: I see the appeal and I'm not saying it's wrong to play them, just that anything that's a creature gets a massive boost in this deck due to Vial and Fauna Shaman, and also GSZ if it's Green...

Shalai looks cool, will probably have to test it :)

[DireLemming]

I was referring to some combination of FoW, Spell Pierce and Negate (I play a list similar to http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?32280-M-O-S-T-Merieke-Opposition-(Survival)-Tradewind-Rider&p=1037502&viewfull=1#post1037502 main functional difference being an addition of 2 Recruiters). I agree, FoW is not the best tool to fight removal, unless it's protecting virtual card advantage. Virtual CA is also why the negative utility of topdecking a counterspell is comparatively low. We have very high threat density and in the late game (ie by the time you are in topdeck mode) you either have your board at least somewhat developed and are therefore pulling ahead on virtual CA, or you need to set it up in which case you still need to protect your first couple of drops until the emergent effects kick in.

Tradewind has different functions at different stages of the game. In the mid-game I use it mostly on my own creatures (blanking removal, "infinite-blocking", reusing CtPs, resetting) in the late game it's a lock piece (once you can do it 2+ the primary target are their lands, not creatures).

If the game goes long, yes it's decided by value and virtual CA, but tempo matters in the early and mid-game. In my experience when we loose to aggro-control or midrange is because they keep us off balance enough that we never/too late progress from there. For that to happen the opponent needs a relatively gas-rich hand meaning she's tight on lands and for something like Pile to continue the pressure for long enough to break us, they have to go removal, dig; removal, dig, ... The pivotal difference in board state can be very subtle: 0-1 creature -> they drop a PW and lock up the game; 2+ creatures -> virtual CA stranding the PW in their hand.

[Memories of the Time]

@Shalai: interesting at least, very sad she's not GW =/

@pettdan: Bitterblossom is interesting and i fear that i've tried it only many years ago. Could effectively give us the type ot threat we need at a lower cost (and much, much lower speed obv). But it's also interesting with Spellstutter and Jitte/equip/mirror Entity

[Taramawn]

@Demonic Pact - I noticed the deck on MtGTop8, and since I've never met a creature toolbox deck I did not like, I needed to know more, which drew me here, especially since, as it turns, out, I've got an awful lot of the cards already, so I'm really close to getting another toolbox (next to my Modern one).

@Pettdan - Great, great primer - it was invaluable in checking dead-certs and potentials against my inventory :-)

[pettdan]

@Taramawn: That's very nice to hear, thank you! I sure hope you'll try out a version that you like and then you are more than welcome to update us on your experiences.

@Memories: Bitterblossom could be something, but it obviously requires a lot of considerations not being a creature and all. I guess Hangarback Walker is the less reliable creature version. I'll see if I figure out some nice synergies that could further motivate the Bitterblossom. Maybe it would be worthwile to play one of each.

[Memories of the Time]

@Taramawn: That's very nice to hear, thank you! I sure hope you'll try out a version that you like and then you are more than welcome to update us on your experiences.

@Memories: Bitterblossom could be something, but it obviously requires a lot of considerations not being a creature and all. I guess Hangarback Walker is the less reliable creature version. I'll see if I figure out some nice synergies that could further motivate the Bitterblossom. Maybe it would be worthwile to play one of each.

As said, for me BB has sense if we put other cards around it, as 1-2 Spellstuttuer, Equip, Mirror Entity, Opposition and so on. Otherwise it's probably too slow =/

[pettdan]

As said, for me BB has sense if we put other cards around it, as 1-2 Spellstuttuer, Equip, Mirror Entity, Opposition and so on. Otherwise it's probably too slow =/

There are a couple of decks based on Bitterblossom, using Spellstutter Sprite and other cards. It would be quite good to have a look at those. There are a few already in the primer's section on decks that can be used for inspiration, I just found and added another couple.

[Stinner]

Agree
And yes, there are plenty of better creature at that CC anyway with fewer cons and a bigger impact. Sadly, ofc, because Tradewind was such a good and tricky creature =)

@Demonic Pact: Congrats again and again, i'm very happy for your results =)
About grinding MU: Obv they're an important point for this deck. In my experience, now that cards like Opposition and Bubble Matrix are no more so usefull (Leovold for the first, Command for the second basically) a big option is the differentiation of our threats: and the main suspects are PW (Elspeth and Garruk Relentless probably)

Guys.
Tradewind is simply the best creature in the deck.
In a mirror who play first the Tradewind at 90% win the game.

[Memories of the Time]

Guys.
Tradewind is simply the best creature in the deck.
In a mirror who play first the Tradewind at 90% win the game.

Nope, and the fact that the few lists that have reached some degree of success in the last years don't play it (or play it for a nostalgic reason and would cut it, as for Shaden if i remember correctly) is a clear sign.
A mirror between MOST is something probably never happened, so the last line is funny =)

[Stinner]

Nope, and the fact that the few lists that have reached some degree of success in the last years don't play it (or play it for a nostalgic reason and would cut it, as for Shaden if i remember correctly) is a clear sign.
A mirror between MOST is something probably never happened, so the last line is funny =)

That's only because I have not played in the last years, dude. :wink:
Tradewind is THE core card to control the board and make a lot of tricks with the enter the board abilities of your crew, if you underestimate this, You've never understood the spirit of the deck, Memories, and I'm sorry for you.

[Memories of the Time]

That's only because I have not played in the last years, dude. :wink:
Tradewind is THE core card to control the board and make a lot of tricks with the enter the board abilities of your crew, if you underestimate this, You've never understood the spirit of the deck, Memories, and I'm sorry for you.

Beyond the funny joke in the first line, as said Tradewind is an outdated card. This is my opinion, ofc, shared by others as i can see. If you don't agree that's fine, but keeping saying the same things won't change anything, especially without results ^^ So, move on and discuss other cards/strategies =)

[Stinner]

Beyond the funny joke in the first line, as said Tradewind is an outdated card. This is my opinion, ofc, shared by others as i can see. If you don't agree that's fine, but keeping saying the same things won't change anything, especially without results^^ So, move on and discuss other cards/strategies =)

Funny position.
I've done results with Tradewind.
You?
You're famous in Italy just for the greek cry (everytime unluck, lost only for bad beats... and so on. Never self-criticism for you level or play or level of deckbuilding).
Apart from the speech related to the results, I've argued WHY tradewind is a strong card and have sense that is included in the deck, you've everytime close the speech with a generic and not argued "is outdated" and stop.
Very technical, congratulations.

[pettdan]

No need to fight here, please. Unless you have very good results with a version, try to be open to other versions. Most recent lists have not been using Tradewind Rider as I recall, especially the successful versions that have been posted here recently. That of course doesn't mean Tradewind Rider cannot or should not be used, just that for your argument to be taken seriously you need to back it up with some recent results. You are definitely entitled to your opinion, just as others are entitled to their opinion.

Edit: Btw I think we're all guilty of those weaknesses to some extent. But does it really matter?

[Memories of the Time]

110% agree with pettdan
To avoid being arrogant i'm suggesting to focus on lists that have reached results in the recent... years? That's it, very simply.
Especially because i'm a bad deckbuilder and even worse player (and i haven't played most in tournament in the last 3 years, just playtested on cockatrice), i'm not crystallized to any card or choice made by me and i'm eager to discuss new things supported by results. As said, we've already discussed Tradewind for pages between the last topic and this one, so we can move to talk about other things untill some changes happen (results or new cards perfectly fit for it).

[Alexeezay]

Bahra's Spicy Popcorn woke my interest for this deck again. Should we try Voice of Resurgence and/or Hallowed Spiritkeeper? The 2nd one is good with Fauna Shaman.

Current list:
4 Birds of Paradise
2 Deathrite Shaman
1 Dryad Arbor
2 Tradewind Rider
1 Meren of Clan Nel Toth
4 Meddling Mage
4 Fauna Shaman
2 Merieke Ri Berit
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Izzet Staticaster
1 Scavenging Ooze
2 Quirion Ranger
2 Phantasmal Image
3 Mother of Runes
1 Samut, Voice of Dissent
1 Peacekeeper
1 Leovold, Emissary of Trest
1 Baleful Strix

4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Force of Will
3 Spell Pierce

// 15 Land
1 Forest
2 Tropical Island
2 Savannah
1 Bayou
1 Taiga
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Verdant Catacombs
2 Windswept Heath
2 Wooded Foothills


// 15 Sideboard
2 Faerie Macabre
1 Containment Priest
1 Izzet Staticaster
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Magus of the Moon
1 Orzhov Pontiff
1 Viashino Heretic
1 Spellskite
1 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Gaddock Teeg
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Meekstone
1 Negate

Mostly a pretty clean list.
Maybe Samut/Strix are too cute and Spellskite/Revoker should be in the main, but I kinda like this build.
I want to give Tradewind/Force of Will a try, and to make Rider and Merieke good, I put in Samut, Voice of Dissident. I also thought about other haste enables, but wasn't satisfied with any of them.
Phantasmal Image gives great flexibility, especially with the Mages.
The sideboard is tailored to the meta: Viashino Heretic is a hedge for Steel Stompy, Tezzerator and D&T. 2 Surgical 2 Macabre 1 Priest to have a better reanimator/dredge matchup. Meekstone to help vs. Delver. Czech Pile should be an interesting and fine matchup.

EDIT: I realized that I might have too few ETB creatures for 2 Phantasmal Image. Although I might want to copy opposing creatures or Mage most of the time...
and I might need something for TurboDepths other than Magus.

[pettdan]

@Alexeezay: Very nice to see you revisit the deck! I'll just give a very quick answer now, since I should be working. :) Also I didn't test much lately, I try to work on a couple of other decks right now.

I think we can definitely use Bahra's success to guide us in experiments. I don't like Samut much but it's not a bad card, you try it and let us know how you feel about it. I've been fiddling with different versions of the deck, like I've been writing this spring I've tried an Aluren version with more value creatures including Recruiter of the Guard, Baleful Strix etc and this is already getting close to Spicy Popcorn. I even wrote down a list with 4 Cabal Therapy and a Veteran Explorer the night before he posted, making it even closer. I don't like Hallowed Spiritkeeper, in theory, because it's kept in check by Deathrite Shaman. We don't overload the board with card advantage creatures like that list does, buuut we could go more in that direction (which I have been trying too). I have been talking about Hangarback Walker repeatedly lately, unfortunately not testing much, but that card does what Hallowed Spiritkeeper does without exposing itself to opposing Deathrites AND having great synergy with Scryb Ranger.

Another topic, I would suggest you look at Demonic_Pact's list and work from that, since it seemed to be working well. I playtested it a bit and it seemed alright.

Also, I watched Phil Gallagher's stream on RW taxes with Shalai and it came up once when I was looking and it could have been a real game winner, countering a Hymn and locking down the board. It will be very interesting to try it.

Oh yeah, one more thing, try to always use the cards-tags since we have so many strange cards in our lists, making it easy for anyone to follow: [ cards ] [ / cards ]

[Demonic Pact]

Hello again

Another outing with the deck at GP Birmingham. Went 5-3 so unfortunately didn't make day 2. No Byes. Don't remember too much about the games as it is a while ago so I'll just post the results...

Wins:
2-0 vs. Grixis Delver
2-1 vs. Burn
2-0 vs. ANT
2-0 vs. Slow Depths
2-0 vs. Miracles
Losses:
1-2 vs. Grixis Delver
1-2 vs. Czech Pile
1-2 vs. Turbo Depths

Decklist: I added Shalai to the maindeck, she performed really well. Card is sick in our deck. I put her in the Glen Elendra slot and moved Glen to the sideboard, making some changes there as well...

1 Dryad Arbor
3 Birds of Paradise
3 Mother of Runes
2 Deathrite Shaman
4 Fauna Shaman
1 Qasali Pridemage
2 Scryb Ranger
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Spellstutter Sprite
2 Leovold, Emissary of Trest
1 Sanctum Prelate
1 Orzhov Pontiff
1 Spell Queller
1 Renegade Rallier
1 True-Name Nemesis
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Atraxa, Praetors' Voice
1 Shalai, Voice of Plenty
4 Aether Vial
4 Brainstorm
3 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Umezawa's Jitte
4 Windswept Heath
4 Misty Rainforest
2 Bayou
2 Tropical Island
2 Savannah
1 Tundra
1 Forest

SB:
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Meddling Mage
1 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Sanctum Prelate
2 Gilded Drake
3 Faerie Macabre
1 Thrun, the last Troll
1 Glen Elendra Archmage
1 Mirran Crusader
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Palace Jailer


Played some side events too, doing reasonably well. Deck still is amazingly fun to play and the blowouts are soooo real ;)
Spellstutter Sprite is probably getting cut, not sure what I'll put in there though. I might also trim one of the Prelates out of the sideboard. Double Gilded Drake is correct I think as it's key against Depths, Lands and S&T. The rest of the sideboard felt good, Palace Jailer standing out especially.

[Memories of the Time]

Good to hear you again and good results having no bye, i've would have loved a Day 2 Most =)
In these weeks i'm testing a list very similar to yours:

+1 Bop
+1 Mother
+1 Leovold (can cut one and go back to 2 easily)
+1 Quirion
+1 Glen Elendra

-1 Revoker (SB)
-1 Sprite
-1 Nemesis
-1 Pontiff (Sb)
-1 Scryb

And my sb is:

2 Sanctum Prelate
1 Orzhov Pontiff
1 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Tidehollow Sculler
2 Gilded Drake (testing from your suggestion)
1 Palace Jailer (as above)
2 Rest in Peace
2 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
3 Thoughtseize

Probably i would love the 3° RiP.
Gilded Drake is obv good against S&T, but against land and turbo depths it's harder. But i don't think this is the best meta for the fifth color and Magus of the Moon, so it's ok.
Probably i'll add a Nemesis and i'll go down to 2 leovold again and see

[Xod]

No more FoW I see, is this because FS ability to tutor/shuffle that this brainstorm becomes much more powerful?

[pettdan]

No more FoW I see, is this because FS ability to tutor/shuffle that this brainstorm becomes much more powerful?

Just as a short answer, FoW is usually changing between maindeck, sideboard and exclusion. It is useful vs fast combo and sweepers, mostly, and there are different ways to fight both. It seems like perhaps combo decks are not very popular right now, compared to the last couple of years, which would further motivate not playing it right now. You see blue decks not playing FoW too sometimes, as a meta decision, to help build card advantage in grindy matchups.

@ Demonic Pact: Thanks again for sharing! Always nice to read about your experiences. Hopefully I'll get back to testing soon, I've tried put a list together many times but get diverted by other interesting decks.. I however still think Aluren is a good way to go, since it is based on card advantage creatures which are useful vs Pile and since it offers a combo win, which is perhaps a bit hard for these fair decks to interact with. But it quickly turns into a challenge of choosing what creatures to keep and how to not play too many non-creatures spells.

[Demonic Pact]

@Memories of the Time: Those changes look very reasonable. I'm a strong advocate of Orzhov Pontiff as I think the card is amazing. Both my friends who day2-ed Birmingham with D&T were playing MD copies...but depending on your metagame SB might be better :)
I'll be interested in how your testing with the non-creature SB cards goes, perhaps I'm just too tunnel visioned on having cards I can tutor up ;) also interested in how Tidehollow Sculler performs. I have previously played a SB copy of Sin Collector and not sure if this is better or worse, I guess it really depends. You having an extra MoR probably makes it better too...
On the Gilded Drake topic, against Depths you generally can block at least once with a Birds or something and you can stall out the game indefinitely with a flyer and a MoR a lot. Obviously you'll need a way to beat Sejiri Steppe, multiple colors of flyers being the safest one. If they have the T1/T2 draw they'll often just win but we often look like a Wasteland deck since we open similar to Maverick builds quite a lot so they tend to waste time Needling Wasteland etc. Oh and beware that some of them board in Not of this World to counter Swords to Plowshares and it will also hit the Gilded Drake trigger (they may or may not know this ^^)
Vs. Lands I find I lose to Tabernacle the most. Card is just absurdly good against us. Recurring Punishing Fires can also win them the game but are far easier to disrupt. The 20/20 out of lands usually isn't too scary as we have plenty of time to set up and Flyer+MoR tends to be fine (these matches are super intricate and if you have a lot of practice you'll do much better than if you don't. Luckily for me about 3 people show up on lands every week at my LGS and I've had plenty of practice). Vial helps sooo much in this matchup but you very often can find a way to police their graveyard or a Prelate on 2 to shut off the Loam/Fire engine. From there you want Flyer+MoR in play to stop Marit Lage and you really want to leave up a counter (Glen/Sprite/Queller) for a Crop Rotation since if you can keep them off Tabernacle the game is a LOT easier. They still can just naturally draw it though and they often also have Molten Vortex and/or Barbarian Ring for you to consider...so from here you want to win as quickly as possible. This is one of the stops TNN shines as it can get through Maze which otherwise is hard or even impossible if you're restricted to 3/4 creatures due to Tabernacle. Hard matchup, lots of thinking, with practice I think you're quite favored though.
Palace Jailer is great. 4 mana exile removal, Monarch is superb in grindy games and many decks just can't get it back off you. Plus half the people at GPs don't know what the card does and just kill Jailer thinking they'll get their thing back ^^.


Re: Force of Will:
2 reasons I'm not running it atm. 1) There's not that much combo around and 2) the combo decks that are around can usually fight through a FoW anyway. Knowing your matchups and when you can/can't die, what to name with Meddling Mages/Sanctum Prelates and when to leave up mana for Spell Queller etc. or when to proactively play something like Teeg/Thalia makes or breaks your win percentages. I play this deck a lot and still make mistakes in these areas. But I believe all the combo matchups are winable without Force.

In conclusion, play what you know and think will do well in your metagame. Your deckbuilding choices really matter as you will see singletons a lot more than in any other deck I've experienced. But knowing what's right/wrong is sometimes impossible as it depends on what you end up facing...

[Memories of the Time]

@Demonic: totally agree, i've beaten 2 Lands yesterday confirming your words (Tabernace, Prelate, TNN against Maze).

My biggest fear is BR reanimator, that's more common on mtgo. Probably i'll need a Faerie Macabre to have another source of hate, and your config with 3 of them and no RiP is obv better but loses a good card against many other decks like bgx. Still unsure

[Taramawn]

Hello, all,

Took the deck out for its first spin at the LGS Tuesday Night Legacy. Let's say the results were not fantastic. 3 match losses, one bye. One game actually won.

I used Demonic Pact's list for my main deck, with some changes to the sideboard:

1 Dryad Arbor
3 Birds of Paradise
3 Mother of Runes
2 Deathrite Shaman
4 Fauna Shaman
1 Qasali Pridemage
2 Scryb Ranger
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Spellstutter Sprite
2 Leovold, Emissary of Trest
1 Sanctum Prelate
1 Orzhov Pontiff
1 Spell Queller
1 Renegade Rallier
1 True-Name Nemesis
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Atraxa, Praetors' Voice
1 Shalai, Voice of Plenty
4 Aether Vial
4 Brainstorm
3 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Umezawa's Jitte
4 Windswept Heath
4 Misty Rainforest
2 Bayou
2 Tropical Island
2 Savannah
1 Tundra
1 Forest

SB:
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Meddling Mage
1 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Sanctum Prelate
1 Gilded Drake
2 Faerie Macabre
1 Thrun, the last Troll
1 Glen Elendra Archmage
1 Mirran Crusader
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Merieke Ri Berit
1 Banewhip Punisher
1 Hostage Taker

I used one less Gilded Drake (because I only have one), and replaced it with Merieke Ri Berit; Banewhip Punisher got the nod over Palace Jailer; Hostage Taker came in as extra artifact and creature removal.


Matchups were Grixis Delver (1-2), a UWR brew that combined Monastery Mentor, oodles of cantrips, and Grove of the Burnwillows with Punishing Fire (0-2), a bye (we were 21 players, and I got awarded the Bye; I would have preferred to play some games, though), and Abzan Death's Shadow (0-2). Despite lousy results

Some particular points on the matches.
1) Against Grixis Delver - the second game showed off what the deck is capable of. Hold off flipped Delvers with Scryb Ranger (Vialed in), tutor for Orzhov Prelate, and Vial it in to kill Pyromancer and three elementals, protect everything from lightning bolts with Mother of Runes (twice in a turn, after untapping her with Scryb Ranger) Tutor for Atraxa, get her into play, protect her with Mother of Runes, and win.
The other two games were close.
2) Against the Punishing Fire deck - I got Truename Nemesis down very fast,holding up Spell Queller. When I got my opponent to around 5 life, he fired off Council's Judgment, which I tried to Spell Queller, but my Queller got countered by Force of Will. Then he took over the game with Punishing Fire, and Mentor. Second game - Punishing Fire and Grove of the Burnwillows on turn two, thank you for playing.
3) Abzan Death's Shadow. As it turns out, two Aether Vials by turn 2 amount to very little when you get Hymn'd a couple of times, and Thoughtseized the rest of the time. Then you get Liliana of the LAst Hope on the table, which keeps on ticking up, until ultimate. Which I don't think we can beat. Game 2, repeat, except substitute Liliana of the Veil for Liliana, the Last Hope.

So, some lessons learned:
Atraxa and Shalia are very, very good together. And separately. Hell, they should be put in Battlebond and allowed to partner up. Shalia and Mother of Runes - also pretty great.

Several games I kept very dubious hands, with bad balances between lands, Aether Vials, and Fauna Shamans. I think this is due to lack of experience with this deck; when I play (not often), I tend to play Modern Toolbox decks, which run a higher land count. I also don't play Aether Vial decks all that often, and I forgot the upkeep trigger a couple of times when I really should not have.

Very impressed by Scryb Ranger, and Mother of Runes.

I was a bit underwhelmed by Deathrite Shaman in this deck. The mana fixing seems to be less of an issue, between Aether Vial and Birds of Paradise; and the other abilities were a bit "meh", but maybe the matchups were not great: the Delver Deck got its own Deathrite Shamans online to stop mine; the Punishing Fire deck used Grove of the Burnwillows to dodge my Scavenging Ooze and the Deathrite Shaman's abilitiy; and the Death's Shadow deck loved the life loss.

I did not draw Renegade Rallier, but I've got a dubious feeling about him.

So, anyhoo, of course I was wondering how I could fit some of my pet cards in this deck. Pretty sure that some of these were discussed and dismissed before, so indulge me.

Eternal Witness instead of Renegade Rallier. While I see it can be used to get Aether Vial and Fauna Shaman back from the Graveyard, I did not really get into a situation where I needed that. What I did get a couple of times, was an overwhelming desire to get Truename, Leovold, or one of the Angel Twins back into my hand to vial them in again. The sample size of my experience is small, of course.

Undertaker (Fauna Shaman's graveyard focused buddy) - for the same reason. The issue here might be the (B) activation cost. Bayou being the only black-producing land, and Legacy being a format where Wastelands are a dime a dozen, and lightning bolts hit Birds of Paradise with glee, it may not be the best idea.

Vedalken Mastermind - sort of a Tradewind Rider "light", in that it only gets your own permanents back. Useful for re-buying ETB effects, counter a Wasteland activation, save a chump blocker, or re-set an Aether Vial.

Stoneforge Mystic - Umezawa's Jitte is a great card (of course), but I would like to actually draw it. It is Truename Nemesis's best friend.

I would be inclined to cut one Leovold (they can be tutored for, and two seem a bit much; especially since the card draw trigger does not play very nicely with Shalia's hexproof), and perhaps the Deathrite Shamans. On the other hand, Deathrite Shaman is as iconic a creature as they get.

[pettdan]

First of all, very welcome here! So nice to see new posters try the deck as well as sharing their experiences here.. Sad to hear you made a 0-3, but it is a complicated deck to play and even with experience it can be hard to win. The starting hands can be hard to evaluate, I sometimes get these clunky hands that do nothing until t2 which feels bad, and considering how much ramp we tend to play. Some hands don't play out well. Also, changing 1-2 cards can drastically change your chances in certain matchups.


2) Against the Punishing Fire deck - I got Truename Nemesis down very fast,holding up Spell Queller. When I got my opponent to around 5 life, he fired off Council's Judgment, which I tried to Spell Queller, but my Queller got countered by Force of Will. Then he took over the game with Punishing Fire, and Mentor. Second game - Punishing Fire and Grove of the Burnwillows on turn two, thank you for playing.

Punishing Fire can be tough, getting Mother online is a possible answer, with Scryb Ranger, or getting Scavenging Ooze with some creatures in the graveyard and some mana available. You can vial it in when they try to fire some creature EOT to snipe it from the graveyard. Probably you realize these things but worth mentioning. Also Sanctum Prelate and Meddling Mage of course offer an answer. And I like to play 1-2 Leyline of the Void in the board, very helpful vs P.Fire-decks.


3) Abzan Death's Shadow. As it turns out, two Aether Vials by turn 2 amount to very little when you get Hymn'd a couple of times, and Thoughtseized the rest of the time. Then you get Liliana of the LAst Hope on the table, which keeps on ticking up, until ultimate. Which I don't think we can beat. Game 2, repeat, except substitute Liliana of the Veil for Liliana, the Last Hope.

For sure these planeswalkers coupled with removal (or equivalently discard) can be tough to beat. Aether Vial really helps vs them though, because you vial your creatures in EOT so they cannot use their planeswalkers vs them, maybe they don't save blockers or you put in a creature with evasion, and you get to get rid of them. Also Mother of Runes vialled in EOT often survives until the next turn, offering protection vs the Liliana. TNN obviously is great at that. Also Vial lets you put multiple creatures into play quickly, not to mention our often explosive starts, which help vs these planeswalkers. So we don't autolose to them, but sometimes they get the upper hand. If you meet these planeswalkers and removal heavy decks often it is definitely reason to consider changing the deck to adjust to it. Which I have been discussing in many posts over the last 4-5 months. Also, Meren is great at winning back loads of card disadvantage from Hymns etc, but you must be able to keep Deathrites away then and most answers are red.


Eternal Witness instead of Renegade Rallier. While I see it can be used to get Aether Vial and Fauna Shaman back from the Graveyard, I did not really get into a situation where I needed that. What I did get a couple of times, was an overwhelming desire to get Truename, Leovold, or one of the Angel Twins back into my hand to vial them in again. The sample size of my experience is small, of course.

There is no clear answer here, I think Meren of Clan Nel Toth is much better than these since it allows you to win back an otherwise lost game. On the other hand, both Witness and Rallier let you get lands back, which is sometimes crucial. If you want to play Eternal Witness, the Rallier is definitely one flex spot that you can feel very free to experiment with.


Undertaker (Fauna Shaman's graveyard focused buddy) - for the same reason. The issue here might be the (B) activation cost. Bayou being the only black-producing land, and Legacy being a format where Wastelands are a dime a dozen, and lightning bolts hit Birds of Paradise with glee, it may not be the best idea.

Well, Fauna Shaman finds any card in your deck while Undertaker requires you to have already found the card. So I'd say it doesn't replace Fauna Shaman. However, it does a similar thing to Meren, but Meren does it with card advantage and with a 3/4 body (and after a few turns it even starts generating mana kind of like Vial does by putting creatures straight into play). I say go for Meren over Undertaker, especially if you have Aether Vials (meaning you reach 4 mana very easily and get to vial in returned creaures). But, like with most things, if you like it - you try it! It's very hard to assess what is really better without playing it.


Vedalken Mastermind - sort of a Tradewind Rider "light", in that it only gets your own permanents back. Useful for re-buying ETB effects, counter a Wasteland activation, save a chump blocker, or re-set an Aether Vial.

I'd say this is too cute, you want to be able to interact with the opponent primarily, bouncing your own permanents can be good at times but more often you will be worrying about what the opponent is doing. If you are going to play this, you need to have some very strong ETB effects to use it with.


Stoneforge Mystic - Umezawa's Jitte is a great card (of course), but I would like to actually draw it. It is Truename Nemesis's best friend.

If you check my lists you'll see I've often been playing a Stoneforge to find the Jitte, sometimes a Batterskull too (vialling in stoneforge EOT lets you often untap and put the Batterskull into play undisturbed).


I would be inclined to cut one Leovold (they can be tutored for, and two seem a bit much; especially since the card draw trigger does not play very nicely with Shalia's hexproof), and perhaps the Deathrite Shamans. On the other hand, Deathrite Shaman is as iconic a creature as they get.

This is the second time I see the argument that Leovold and Shalia don't work well together, I think it is a strong misunderstanding. You don't want your opponent to destroy your Leovold, you'd much rather have it in play since it invalidates their card draw and much other interaction. It's an advantage, not a disadvantage, that Shalia protects Leovold. Also, Leovold can singlehandedly win in some matchups and provides very relevant interaction with some other, and the vial of Leovold in response to Brainstorm is backbreaking. If you want to play 1, you can do that, but it's a very good card and few decks get to play it with Ather Vial and Mother of Runes. You were talking about being hymned and losing to a Liliana the Last Hope, Leovold would be good in such a situation to prevent Liliana from being efficient and recovering lost cards from Hymn.

[JackaBo]

I have to agree with Dan after playing Leo in several different deck. A deck with vial, mother and shalai sounds like the best, or one of the best, home for it.
The strongest part if Leo's ability is preventing opponent of cantripping.

[Demonic Pact]

Hi Taramawn, excellent to see you around, thanks for posting your experiences here :)

First off I hope you had fun and won't get too disheartened by the results, pettdan is absolutely right when he says it's a complicated deck to pick up and you gain a lot of percentage points in basically every matchup by knowing it well ;)

@everyone: She's called Shalai, not Shalia :P

regarding the single cards that were mentioned, these are the more flexible slots we usually discuss and what ends up being or not being good can heavily depend on the meta/matchups so take everything with a grain of salt...regardless, these are my opinions:

DRS:
This not being a 100% reliable mana source definitely is a downside, especially if you want to use it multiple times with Scryb Ranger or vs. opposing Deathrites...still, the card is super strong (obviously) and being able to use its other abilities with Scryb Ranger or winning "deathrite wars" due to being able to activate twice a turn is very powerful. I think here's it's important to strike a balance where you leave yourself with enough reliable mana sources (Birds, Zenith for 0) and enough power to improve your average draw (DRS)...

Renegade Rallier / Eternal Witness / Meren of Clan Nel Toth:
First off, all of these are bad vs. opposing DRS...I play Rallier over Witness because i believe Witness is just too slow if you don't have an Aether Vial. Rallier is a tempo+value play, Witness is a solely value play. I could be wrong, I should try Witness again I can definitely see the upside.
I still like the idea of Meren, but it just gets shut off by DRS and I want it in the slow, grindy matchups - all of which seem to have DRS :/ I currently have Thrun in that slot for matchups like Czech Pile...

Undertaker:
See pettdans reasoning

Vedalken Mastermind:
Bouncing my own stuff isn't really the main thing I'd be looking for in Tradewind Rider...it's soooo slow without Aether Vial even though it can save your things from removal. But the deck just doesn't play enough ETB creatures atm to make it worth it.

Stoneforge Mystic:
Definitely not wrong to play one. I've talked about this before, I don't feel the need to tutor for Jitte. Wanting Stoneforge in the deck assumes the following scenario: I have an active Fauna Shaman and I want one of the effects from Umezawa's Jitte. If I want the -1/-1 effect, I'll find Orzhov Pontiff instead. If I need the lifegain, I'll find something like Atraxa. If I want the pump effect to quickly close out the game/kill planeswalkers I'll find TNN/Atraxa...I play Jitte because it's really good, that's all. I don't necessarily need to find it in specific situations.

Leovold:
Card is great. I agree with pettdan, it's excellent with Shalai...they have to 2 for 1 themselves to get the Shalai off the table and then you've still got Leovold being there and being annoying. What's important here is that you often don't realise just how much work Leovold is doing, because it tends to shut off the cards your opponent therefore doesn't play, so you might not realise. Plus, when you said you wanted to Witness it back, having the 2nd available seems reasonable ;)

vs. Punishing Fire:
Shutting off Fire is often one of the most important things in these matchups. Meddling Mage and Prelate are usually the best, Ooze can work too and sometimes even DRS but unreliably.

vs. LTLH / Hymn to Tourach:
It happens. Sometimes there's little you can do...

generally regarding Mulligans:
Hands with no turn 1 play are almost always bad except in certain slower matchups if the rest of the hand is excellent. 1 land is very often keepable, depending on play/draw and whether you think you will just flat out lose to one removal spell/Daze and how well you'll do against Daze+Wasteland etc...Vial is the best card in any opening hand. Knowing your game plan vs. their game plan is obviously key so it's hard to generalize...

my 2 cents as usual ;)

I was at MKM Hamburg last weekend with the deck, I waited too long to post again so no detailed reports, results I remember:
3-1 and 2-2 in trials, don't remember the matchups too well. 4-2-1 in the main event I think before we dropped for food.
Main event: (order might be wrong)
Bye
0-2 Mono Red Prison (T1 Chalice, T2 Blood Moon and then T1 Chalice, T2 Volcanic Fallout, not a lot of Magic)
2-0 Grixis Delver
1-1 BUG Nic Fit (Remember throwing Game 2 where I attacked with a Prelate on 3 into a DRS and missed that he could fetch for Dryad Arbor to trade off the Prelate then lost to Toxic)
2-1 Lands
1-2 Grixis Delver (I remember a lot of mulligans)
2-0 Lands

I played the Meddling Mage MD and cut the Spellstutter Sprite. Felt good. Filled the sideboard slot with a Peacekeeper which I think should have been good but I didn't see it ever...

[Taramawn]

Thanks for all the feedback, guys. I know that, like any Toolbox deck it's a tricky one to play, and going into the Tuesday night event, I did not expect to do all that well. And I did not :-), so it is nice to be right! I don't let a minor issue like 0-3 discourage me, or I'd quit Magic years ago. So, I'll make some changes to my deck list (I think I really do want a Peacekeeper in there), and get out there as soon as I get an opportunity.

Potentially of interest; Jeff Hoogland playing a league on MTGO with the deck HERE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bjOIPZjMHX0)

[pettdan]

Supersweet, Taramawn, the primer is updated with a link to that stream. I just checked the first 30 minutes and it's quite similar to my experience of playing vs Pile, some more card advantage is needed, perhaps, to keep up with that deck. Or better luck, of course.

[Demonic Pact]

Saw the video too. Tbh he actually played quite well considering he's never piloted the deck before.
He also makes a point about needing to interact on T1 or play some degenerate combo yourself. I think this is part of the reason he doesn't really like the format and regarding the MTGO metagame he is probably correct...if I were to play the deck online I would play the SB set of FoWs since I have heard it is infested with BR Reanimator and similar decks...

Tuning for czech pile makes you eant to be greedier and grindier, neither of which helps vs Delver decks and here there are a lot of those so I can't step too far in that direction...but the deck is flexible and tuneable and even changing 2-3 slots is super noticeable when playing. So in a different meta I could totally see playing more card advantage eg Tireless Tracker, Eternal Witness, Meren, ...

[Kyle]

Thank you @pettdan for putting together a new primer for this. I've been wanting to see this list revived for a while as it's a longtime secret love of mine.

[pettdan]

Thank you @pettdan for putting together a new primer for this. I've been wanting to see this list revived for a while as it's a longtime secret love of mine.

You're welcome Kyle! Hopefully the primer helps attract some new eyes on this deck so it can improve and spread. We've seen recently it can still do well at large events so there's plenty of opportunity for testing and development. So.. How did you find the deck, to start with? Have you played it? Any feedback and ideas you bring are, of course, welcome and appreciated.

@Alexeeezay: did you test the popcorn inspired list? How did it go?

[Alexeezay]

Not much time to test atm since I'm trying various Lands builds, but Hallowed Spiritkeeper is great vs. Pile.

[Demonic Pact]

more match reports :)

played a local tournament on Sunday, sadly didn't top8 so list isn't gonna be on mtgtop8 again, which sucks because my last one has fallen out of last 2 months now ;)
Was 4-1 looking to ID the last round, but i got hit with the pairdown and lost. It happens...

There was a stream and i played on camera twice, here are the links:
sadly the twitch vods are now no longer availble
notes: life totals aren't working for G1 of the Maverick match, also seems to have no sound for a while. And yes, I have habit of overly flicking my card sin my hand, somehow moving my hands seems to help me think, sorry in advance if it annoys anyone ;)

list: The usual, might be a few cards different in the board, i don't really know
decklist (http://decks.deckedbuilder.com/d/2018-06-17/kznqqVtB4EuBJUCLOh_D0w==)

R1: 2-0 vs. BUG Control
Seems like he was rather control heavy, didn't see any TNNs which is probably worse for us since I'd rather be racing TNN than playing against MORE removal spells...plus them not having that ups the chance they have Toxic but maybe he just didn't draw them.
G1 I straight up outvalued him. Scryb Ranger protected me from Wasteland, Pontiff killed 2 Strixes, a Rallier got back a Mother that he had to kill again...eventually I ended up sticking a Fauna Shaman and then a Leovold. Clique with Leovold was enough to prompt a concession.
G2 I stuck a Jitte on a TNN which is still stupidly good. He could have maybe raced since he had 2 Snaps and 2 Strix in play with a Leovold so killing things was awkward, but I had Pontiff again which was an allstar this match and killed his board allowing me to use Jitte proactively to close the game.

R2: 2-0 vs. Maverick
I knew he was on Maverick so G1 I kept a rather low power hand with Scryb and Pontiff guessing that the Wasteland protection would be good and the Pontiff was obviously bound to be great. Was doing relatively little early on and he found a Jitte with SFM. I considered Pontiffing a Mother of Runes but decided to save it (had vial in play). Key turn was when he put the Jitte on SFM, at which point I had a non-active Mother in play and 2 Scryb Rangers so the Jitte connecting would have been lights out. However I had the Pontiff still which killed Mother and Thalia and also blanked the Jitte because the SFM had 0 power. Untapped with Mother+double Scryb and game was done.
G2 he mulled to 6 and kept Knight+double Swords I think. I killed the Knight on T3 by having Scryb+DRS to exile both his lands and get enough mana to play and equip Jitte which connected and killed Knight. Then probably got too greedy the next turn when I went for Queller on his Swords and he had a second one. I thought connecting with the Jitte would be enough to make it impossible for him to turn the game around, but prob should have just let it resolve and gotten TNN to vial in endstep and put the Jitte on. Regardless, he was flooded and had no way back.

R3: 0-2 vs. Lands
This matchup still feels really close but super swingy...if they get a good start and especially if they draw Tabernacle you often can't play at all (i know, that's what lands does).
G1 he had Waste+Quarter into T3 Marit Lage. I also drew the basic naturally which didn't help...I had a Scryb Ranger in play and a Vial and just GSZ for a Fauna Shaman, realising that if I got a second flyer I'd never be able to beat Marit Lage but just leaving myself dead to Fire this turn instead, so all I could do was hope. He had it. I died.
G2 he drew triple Wasteland and double GQ. I had a Vial but quickly had no lands left. He also found a Krosan Grip for my Vial. I got rid of his Loam very early with a Faerie Macabre so nothing happened for quite a while but eventually he drew into another Loam and I had no way back vs. Tabernacle and more land destruction waiting to eat my lands and therefore my creatures.

R4: 2-1 vs. Sneak and Show
I guessed he was on sneak due to the T1 Tarn->Island->Preordain. I was on the play and went T1 Trop+Birds, with Trop being my only land. T2 I had a Meddling Mage in hand which I could have just played naming Show and Tell but I also had a Brainstorm and it felt like my hand wouldn't do enough if I missed my land drop and just played the Mage so went for BS first. Found a land but sadly it was a Bayou so could no longer follow up with Meddling Mage. He had T2 land, petal, Show, Omni, Emrakul so I lost. Perhaps I was too greedy holding the Mage. Finding a non-Bayou non-Forest land however would have meant going Mage into Prelate which would have probably won me the game. Played to win and not to not lose but not sure if I was wrong.
G2 I had a Vial into T2 revoker naming Sneak, T3 vial in Mage on Pyroclasm and play Prelate on 3. This locks out most of his ways to do anything and I had a Glen Elendra the next turn which locked up the game.
G3 he mulliganed to 6 and didn't seem to have an optimal draw. I remember Sin Collecter taking his Show and Tell and a Glen Elendra being around to cover me from anything bad he would draw. Game ended rather quickly.

R5: 2-0 vs. UR Control
He got a gameloss G1 as he got deckchecked and had an error in the list.
G2 He played a Brainstorm, I played a T2 Prelate, he brainstormed in response but it resolved (naming 1). After that he played a TNN and conceded not long after with no plays through the Prelate (not attacking with it was key as he did have a Snapcaster that would have unlocked his hand by trading with the Prelate. Still, unfortunate draw for my opponent.

was in 6th here I think so looking to ID the last round but unfortunately we were an odd number of X-1s and X-0-1s and the pairdown hit me (feels bad).

R6: 1-2 vs. Sneak and Show
Didn't know what he was playing. G1 I kept a hand that was decent but turned out to be bad in the matchup (no interaction with his combo at all). He Sneak attacked an Emrakul and a Griselbrand on T4 (maybe T5 not sure). I definitely misplayed here, I had 9 permanents and kept Vial, Atraxa, Mother of Runes and blocked Emrakul. I should have used Mother in response to the Annihilator trigger to give Atraxa Pro Black and kept Trop, Vial, Atraxa and then blocked the Griselbrand preventing his lifegain and keeping a clock alive. This would have given me outs to draw Revoker or Pridemage or even Brainstorm into Revoker. Alternatively he could have bricked. It didn't matter as I got Emrakuled again the next turn, but still was definitely bad play from me.
G2 he had a Grim Lavamancer which was annoying but I had enough pieces to disrupt him and eventually ended up beating down with Teeg and Prelate on 3 backed up with Glen Elendra.
G3 he had Grim Lavamancer again which did work. He resolved a Show and Tell but only had a Griselbrand to put in. I had Birds and Mother in play so he still needed to find more things to actually kill me but could draw pretty liberally vs. a non-threatening board. I had showed in a Prelate on 3, thus shutting off follow up Show and Tells and the Wishes, Kozileks Returns and Intuitions...but drawing so many he was always likely to find something that got around it and found a Sneak Attack and an Emrakul so I died.



Thoughts:
Deck is still fun and pretty great if you're experienced with it and your opponents are not ;)
I lost the win and in to Sneak and Show but don't necessarily think it's a bad matchup, i actually think it's about 50/50. G1 feels pretty unfavorable, but post sideboard games feel slightly favored as you have multiple hate pieces to stop them from casting their things as well as things like Gilded Drake and Jailer which can do work even if something resolves. I probably should be playing a Containment Priest in the board. It does shut off Vial and GSZ, but against Sneak, Dredge or Reanimator it's just good enough to make it worth it I think.
Let me know your thoughts. Hope this helps some people and let's you guys help me :)

[Memories of the Time]

@Demonic Pact: First of all, i've to say that reading your reports it's always a pleasure, they're very insightful and detailed and i'm learning new ways of thinking =)

Moreover, now we don't have DRS (not a huge change for us, compared to other decks) but we have to see how the meta will change (we hope for a further rising of Miracle without an explosion of Dredge/reanimator and so on) to adapt

[pettdan]

I enjoy your reports too, Demonic_pact! I'm travelling since a month back but wanted to comment on some new cards for us such as Brightling and Arcane Artisan . More on that later. Also, the banning of Deathrite is probably good news for us. Pile is weakened, we can again play Meren and experiment with Scarab God, Loyal Retainers and Necrotic Ooze. I'll continue playing Leylines in the sideboard for the fast graveyard based decks and I suggest you consider it too, if there is an increase in those.

I'm interested in testing Nicol Bolas, the Ravager too. I think I'll be playing 3 BoP's and 2 Nobles to start with, post-Deathrite, so the dragon should be castable too (not only vial-able). I like that it's a flying 4/4 for cmc 4, it comes with card advantage, it's a great late game mana sink and it's a tutorable planeswalker, kind of. And the weakness vs Karakas is kind of mitigated by it becoming a discard engine if they start bouncing it (with Vial in play it is a good exhange for us; with Vial you can also easily outplay the Karakas with hardcasting plus vialing on the same turn). I think it benefits from being played next to Knight of the Reliquary, Karakas and Gaea's Cradle but it might be hard to fit all of those into one list.

[pettdan]

I updated the primer with the removal of Deathrite, also adding Brightling, Arcane Artisan, and Runic Armasaur to various sections.

Demonic Pact: can you check the links you posted to recordings of your games? I'm getting error messages about recordings not being available. Not sure if there is anything you can do about it, doesn't hurt asking though.

---

I had a nice 3-1 in the local weekly event last week. A few tight wins but nevertheless. The lost game was also tight. Here are a few brief comments, I'm trying to not spend too much time but still provide some input on experiments moving forward.

I decided to try playing a few Swords to Plowshares, mostly worried about how to handle t1 Goblin Lackeys, but it's also good vs aggressive decks and they can sometimes be tough, so I think the expected resurgence of both RUG Delver and Reanimator makes StP seem better. Maybe there are better options. Academy Rector is one of the cards that make more sense moving forward, with the absence of Deathrite Shaman, and this would enable Moat as an alternative, but I think having 1 mana answers is probably a good idea. Back on track; I also tried a Brightling. StP was great, I played the right matchups for it to shine though. Brightling didn't get to do that much though it was certainly useful. I can imagine it shining more against control decks.

R1: RUG Delver 2-1
Tight game, I would have won during t5 of time but he concedes on t4 seeing that he can't win. However, he had two Lightning Bolts to finish the game but only 1 red mana source or he might have won.

Card evaluation: I had good use of both Shalai, stabilizing vs Mongoose, Swords to Plowshares and Brightling gaining some life. Meren and Carpet of Flowers were very good. I've had problems with RUG Delver before, that's why the Carpet of Flowers is in the sideboard.

R2: UW Eldrazi-Nought 0-2
I'm quickly overrun both games. In G2 I'm close to stabilizing on 1 life with Meren, 4 experience counters, replaying chumpblockers every turn and a Merieke being played, bounced by Echoing Truth, etc, but I die to a timely Smasher (no 2) before I get Merieke active.

Card evaluation:

R3: Moon stompy 2-0
I draw really well both games, crucial is G1 opening with a t2 Gaddock Teeg and in G2 he has a slow start with t2 Blood Moon, t3 Blood Moon + trinisphere, t4 Magus of the Moon and I can answer all and beatdown through an Ensnaring Bridge with a BoP equipped with Jitte and exalted.

Card evaluation: Gaddock Teeg was great, Jitte too.

R4: Death and Taxes, 2-0
I drew great he didn't, he only drew 1 vial in the two games and I could answer it. In G1 I set up 2 Mothers + Scryb Ranger. In G2 he is a bit choked on mana and doesn't draw Karakas so I get to keep Meren in play which is followed by a Shalai and when I start activating Shalai's ability to place counters on all my creatures he calls it a day. First time I got to use Shalai's ability.

List:
1 Forest
2 Tropical Island
3 Savannah
2 Bayou
1 Tundra
7 Fetches

1 Dryad Arbor
3 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Noble Hierarch
3 Birds of Paradise
2 Scryb Ranger
4 Fauna Shaman
4 Aether Vial

3 Mother of Runes
1 Scavenging Ooze
2 Qasali Pridemage
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Orzhov Pontiff
1 Brightling
1 Spell Queller
1 Peacekeeper
2 Leovold, Emissary of Trest
1 Meren of Clan Nel Toth
1 Glen Elendra Archmage
1 Shalai

2 Swords to Plowshares
1 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Abrupt Decay
4 Brainstorm

Sb:
1 Sanctum Prelate
1 Gilded Drake
1 Merieke ri Berit
2 Leyline of the Void
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Swords to Plowshares
1 Carpet of Flowers
1 Kambal, Consul of Allocation
2 Invasive Surgery
3 Force of Will
1 Magus of the Moon

[Demonic Pact]

Thanks guys, always happy to report on my tournaments :)



Demonic Pact: can you check the links you posted to recordings of your games? I'm getting error messages about recordings not being available. Not sure if there is anything you can do about it, doesn't hurt asking though.

Yeah, those were links to timestamps of a twitch video, unfortunately twitch only keeps vods for a limited amount of time (a month i think?) so not much I can do. I'll ask the store owner who runs the stream in case he stores the vods but I doubt it :/ I'll edit my post to reflect the fact the videos are no longer available...

Nice you got to play again, results look good :)
Swords will definitely have its moments. It can be awkward vs. RUG because sometimes they end up with just Mongeese and TNNs but it can also be great vs. Goyf etc.

I still need to try Brightling. I imagine it's great with Vial and clunky otherwise. Also we won't always have a lot of White mana to use for it...but I can see its versatility and power so I'll give it a shot. Not looking at Nicol Bolas right now, mainly because I'm not red but also because the 4drop slot only has that much room and I don't believe it's good enough on the front side and having played with Shalai and basically never activated it I doubt I'd ever flip it. Also don't think Arcane Artisan is that great in our deck. I was super tempted to play Runic Armasaur but with DRS now banned it loses a lot of value, mostly just drawing from fetches :(

Your list doesn't look too dissimilar from mine. I don't think you ever need 3 Savannah so running the 8th fetch instead probably gives you better mana. Some different singleton choices to mine but those really depend on the metagame. Please let me know how much work the FoWs do for you. I'm pretty sure your list runs too low of a blue card count to make them consistent (8 main and boarding in 5-7 including the FoWs depending on the matchup is 13-15 where I believe 18+ is recommended but I'm no expert on the card ^^)



I went 3-0-1 at FNM on Friday and top8ed Sunday Legacy today. Reports below. Sadly never played on camera this weekend so no vods ;) Sunday decklist will hopefully show up on mtgtop8 some time next week :D
decklist (http://decks.deckedbuilder.com/d/2018-07-15/jgnBxN0ij0G9y0nMiknS1Q==)

Friday:
R1: 2-1 vs. Mono White Prison
More or less a port of Martyr Proc to legacy. The fact he played multiple Wrath of God and Day of Judgment along with Path to Exile and Council's Judgement was annoying. Teeg and Prelate did work. Mother and Shalai too. Long, grindy, somewhat frustrating. Somehow got there during turns...

R2: 1-1 vs. UWr Stoneblade
G1 I removed the Jitte he got from Stoneforge but he drew the Batterskull after and managed to put it on a TNN. I raced it for a while with Jitte but couldn't find a way to remove the Skull or Atraxa to win the race so I eventually lost. G2 I had my own Jitte do work. Didn't finish G3, although I did mulligan to 5 but managed to stabilize. I again had a Jitte in play and would have probably won, but it's hard to say and time ran out...

R3: 2-0 vs. Eureka Tell
Basically Sneak and Show but without the Red removal post board. They do however have things like Elesh and Ugin which are suuuper hard to beat. But G1 I managed to Meddling Mage/Sanctum Prelate her off of actually getting fatties into play. G2 we both got stuck on 1 land for a bit. Eventually I had quite a few creatures in play and Sanctum Prelate on 4 because I had Show and Tell covered with an Ethersworn Canonist in play and both Reclamation Sage (for Omni) and Gilded Drake in hand. She cast Show and Tell and put in Elesh which killed my board...I took the Elesh with Gilded Drake and proceeded to win from there.

R4: 2-0 vs. TES
This matchup is pretty boring. Essentially your only decision is whether to mulligan or not, then you hope they don't kill you on T1 or T2 if on the draw. G1 he didn't kill me and then I had Teeg into Meddling Mage to lock him out. G2 he once again didn't kill me and I had Teeg + Prelate to lock him out.


Sunday:
R1: 0-2 vs. Infect
G1 mull to 5, keep Double Abrupt Decay, Land, Pontiff, Vial. His only threat is an Inkmoth which is immune to Decay and he kills me on T3.
G2 I have a Fauna Shaman in play. He once again has an Inkmoth as his only threat and I cast a Pridemage the next turn, which gets FoWd and then he kills me on T3. If I live I get to search for Peacekeeper on endstep and then play it since it's unbeatable for almost all Infect lists.

R2: 2-1 vs. Eureka Tell (same friend as on Friday)
G1 she has T2 Show and Tell. I put in Clique, she puts in Omni. I target her with Clique and her hand is Omni, Intuition, Karn so I have to take Intuition to not get Emrakuled. I have a Revoker in hand so can deal with the Karn and just hope she blanks for a few turns so I can find removal for Omni. She draws Ugin off the Clique so I lose.
G2 and G3 I find enough hate/lock pieces to stop her from casting Show/Eureka and win.

R3: 2-0 vs. Merfolk
PSA: Scryb Ranger is a really, really good card.
G1 I mulligan to 5 and keep 3 GSZ, Misty, Shalai. I GSZ for Dryad, then for Birds. I get Wastelanded. I then find a Scryb Ranger so I'm fine on mana despite not having any "lands" (Arbor doesn't really count). Manage to cast Shalai and Clique from there and swing through the air with Scryb doing some blocking as double duty.
G2 I have Scryb Ranger get FoWd but find another and it helps a lot again, blocking, picking up my island to stop islandwalk, untapping Mother of Runes, etc. eventually find myself in a racing scenario vs. TNN and manage to win it by proactively using Mother of Runes to get through with ground creatures + my Scryb Ranger attacking.

R4: 2-0 vs. Nic Fit
G1 he has trouble killing off his Explorers. I find Revoker for Deed and Meddling Mage for Toxic so my board is fairly safe. Atraxa and flying friends close out the game.
G2 I have Clique and Queller do work and a Faerie Macabre in hand after his Cabal Therapy that stops him from being able to go for Rector into Overwhelming Splendor. Flyers + TNN close out quickly.

R5: ID

Quarter finals: 1-2 vs. TES (same friend as on Friday)
G1 he mulls to fine and doesn't kill me on T1 or T2. I find Teeg and he concedes.
G2 he kills me on T2 on the play.
G3 he goes Ad Naus on T1 but doesn't quite find the kill going down to 1 life. So he just makes 30ish Goblins. I went Trop+Birds on T1 so I have to draw Orzhov Pontiff to clear the Goblin Tokens or Noble Hierarch or GSZ for Noble to kill him with Birds. Unfortunately didn't get it (not that I had great odds :P)

[pettdan]

@Demonic Pact:


Yeah, those were links to timestamps of a twitch video, unfortunately twitch only keeps vods for a limited amount of time (a month i think?) so not much I can do. I'll ask the store owner who runs the stream in case he stores the vods but I doubt it :/ I'll edit my post to reflect the fact the videos are no longer available...

Regarding Twitch, that's really sad... I was assuming that saved broadcasts would be saved for a longer period of time.


Nice you got to play again, results look good :)
Swords will definitely have its moments. It can be awkward vs. RUG because sometimes they end up with just Mongeese and TNNs but it can also be great vs. Goyf etc.

Yeah, the deck felt really good, I think being able to rely on Meren makes the deck so much stronger. Just a feeling. An old feeling though. StP seems counterintuitive for the deck, we don't want to load up on noncreature spells, but actually, in addition to RUG, Reanimator and Goblins that I mentioned as potential good decks now I guess there's also Infect, Eldrazi and Elves against which StP will be good. Maybe with Ezuri, Renegade Leader, that I think Julian Knab was testing, having spot removal is more important. And he regenerates creatures which makes StP better. Well it's all just loose assumptions... But being able to slow down an agressive deck by a few turns is potentially very valuable. Like UR Delver has been a tough matchup too.


I still need to try Brightling. I imagine it's great with Vial and clunky otherwise. Also we won't always have a lot of White mana to use for it...but I can see its versatility and power so I'll give it a shot. Not looking at Nicol Bolas right now, mainly because I'm not red but also because the 4drop slot only has that much room and I don't believe it's good enough on the front side and having played with Shalai and basically never activated it I doubt I'd ever flip it. Also don't think Arcane Artisan is that great in our deck. I was super tempted to play Runic Armasaur but with DRS now banned it loses a lot of value, mostly just drawing from fetches :(

Yeah, Brightling looks good, I'll keep testing it for a while. Like you mention, we don't have white mana for it always, which is part of the reason while I'm playing 3 Savannah (which you comment on further down), in addition to playing StP and Shalai I think it's a white-heavy list I'm trying now.

Agree, of course, red in a casting cost is always a strong disadvantage.

When it comes ot Arcane Artisan, the major advantage of this card is that it allows you to cheat a monster into play without using the graveyard. The best alternative I think is Loyal Retainers. Like we have discussed before here, this spring I think, we always consider what unfair elements we can build into our deck, since it is so easy for us to tutor for creatures. So both Artisan and Retainers let us cheat Emrakul into play without the opponent being able to interact on the stack (using Fauna Shaman to discard Emrakul and Aether Vial to put the enabler into play). With Artisan the opponent can't even interact in the graveyard to stop the effect, as opposed to Retainers and most other alternatives. Artisan has the advantage that it is blue, helping with blue count should we want it, and the impressive thing about it is that it provides card advantage. You can use it to dig for other cards, discarding excessive lands or just put an Emrakul token into play while drawing a card for your efforts. I haven't even considered which other creatures in the deck I may want to cheat into play at instant speed while drawing an extra card. I think in general you of course would rather let the physical card stay in the game so that you can get it back with Meren, but still even with this downside it's still an upside in relation to the much more limited of use alternative in Loyal Retainers. Also, Artisan has 3 toughness. That is about 2 more than any other 3 mana creature which lets you cheat creatures into play. Oh well, it is an interesting card that we can use in many different ways, it is not an obvious inclusion. Edit: forgot to mention that in addition to the above it is basically an extra Vial effect.

Armasaur looks interesting yes, 5 toughness is a real benefit too. We'll see what the meta shapes into before we figure out what role it can play.


Your list doesn't look too dissimilar from mine. I don't think you ever need 3 Savannah so running the 8th fetch instead probably gives you better mana. Some different singleton choices to mine but those really depend on the metagame. Please let me know how much work the FoWs do for you. I'm pretty sure your list runs too low of a blue card count to make them consistent (8 main and boarding in 5-7 including the FoWs depending on the matchup is 13-15 where I believe 18+ is recommended but I'm no expert on the card ^^)


Yeah, I did follow your lead on the inclusion of Brainstorms, the 4th Vial and Tundra primarily, also trying the Spell Queller. I think the Brainstorms and Tundra are good additions, well I have played them before but it's so hard to figure out what works better with all the options we have.

I have played FoW in the sideboard for a long time, with the amount of hatebears we have it seems to have a great strategic position in the deck by letting you survive until t2 when you can hopefully get a crucial hatebear into play. It's like playing Death and Taxes with FoWs (one main disadvantage of that deck is extremely limited t0-t1 interaction). Anyway, I didn't make an effort to increase the blue count in this list, as you observe it's a bit low.

3 Savannah, well we commented on it above but anyway, my mana base is not perfect, maybe another fetch would be better...

Good job in beating Nic Fit, it is one deck I don't want to see. But I don't play the Revoker and stopping Deed should be crucial in that matchup.

[Memories of the Time]

@Artisan/Retainers: Now that DRS is gone, i strongly believe that Retainers is way above other options. Simply because it's an istant effect, while Artisan has to be tapped: that's huge.
Artisan is good bc it's not only a combo piece but a threat/engine by herself, and that's also good: but they have different roles and slots i fear (i also think that artisan is too cute/narrow).

About the target, i was wondering if Emrakul is the best option, mainly because of its gv trigger that request 2 cards in hand with Fauna, where other options just need one card (discard that card, grab the target, discard target for retainers -> gg ).

@For all: i think that in the meta that will come, probably Rip will be a strong sb option

[pettdan]

@Memories: That's not really correct, Retainers must be played kind of sorcery speed while Artisan can be activated at instant speed, meaning your opponent's end step, which is probably the main thing speaking in its favor right now.

[Memories of the Time]

@Memories: That's not really correct, Retainers must be played kind of sorcery speed while Artisan can be activated at instant speed, meaning your opponent's end step, which is probably the main thing speaking in its favor right now.

Wait, i'm missing something.
The activation part is relatively important, for me. The "pseudo-haste" ability of Loyal is, by far, more important, mainly because it means that you can be removal-proof.
And that's a HUGE part

[pettdan]

Ah yeah, see your point. I don't like the idea of exposing Emrakul to sorcery speed interaction, in that sense Retainers acts at sorcery speed (Karakas untapping, recruiter for Flickerwisp[edit: irrelevant, nevermind], cast or just activate Jace etc), but maybe dodging removal pointed at the enabler is more important, and in that sense it acts at instant speed. Otoh, often Vial will offer pseudo haste and there will be a Mother around and other targets, but yeah, Retainers has that advantage. Either way I think the other advantages make Artisan better but I guess we are probably not going to play either of them. Except for testing. But I do feel like testing it, just got to figure out a rationale. And I think Emrakul is the best option to cheat into play since he rids the opponent of both creatures (important vs anything aggressive) and lands (important vs combo and mana intensive strategies like cloudpost). Now if playing a Cradle or some other heavy mana generator I can see choosing a hardcastable option.

[Memories of the Time]

Let's test =)
I strongly believe that the "pseudo-haste" of Loyal is by far more important when our goal is to cheat in play a big threat (Iona?), while the Artisan is a good card by herself that doesn't need any specific card in combo to be a threat/engine, and that's awesome. Sad thing that she's not green and zenithable =/

Edit: another important point is what has to be cut to make room for Loyal and Iona... Now i'll test this list

4 Aether Vial
1 Dryad Arbor
4 Birds of Paradise
2 Noble Hierarch
4 Mother of Runes
4 Fauna Shaman
1 Scryb Ranger
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Leovold, Emissary of Trest
1 Renegade Rallier
1 Spell Queller
1 Sanctum Prelate
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Atraxa, Praetors' Voice
1 Quirion Ranger
1 Merieke Ri Berit
1 Peacekeeper
1 Shalai, Voice of Plenty
1 True-Name Nemesis
1 Loyal Retainers
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria

4 Brainstorm
2 Abrupt Decay
3 Green Sun's Zenith

4 Misty Rainforest
4 Windswept Heath
2 Bayou
2 Tropical Island
2 Savannah
1 Tundra
1 Forest


1 Sanctum Prelate
1 Orzhov Pontiff
1 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Gilded Drake
1 Palace Jailer
4 Faerie Macabre
1 Glen Elendra Archmage
2 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
3 Thoughtseize

[Demonic Pact]

Re: Artisan/Retainers:
Here's what it actually takes to pull this off in a game: You need to draw Fauna Shaman, resolve it, untap with it and activate it TWICE to get first Iona (or whatever), then discard it to get Retainers (or get Artisan then get Iona). How many games do you lose where you get to activate Fauna Shaman twice? It should be very close to zero.
The downside is that drawing Iona/etc. is just a dead card. I've activated Shalai about twice in my life and can't imagine ever casting an 8drop...drawing Retainers might not be horrible since we do run 5ish legendaries, but most of the time it'll be dead too.

I strongly believe that if I get 2 Fauna Shaman activations off in any given game I will win it. The only scenario I see losing after that is when a key piece you search for gets FoWd...in which case the Retainers/Artisan would also just get FoWd and you're not doing better either.

Tl;dr: I'm pretty sure it's not worth it.

[Ahab]

@Demonic Pact: I sat next to you in the Top 8 (Dredge), you should post a pic of your deck! It has some beautiful cards iirc

[Memories of the Time]

@Ahab: now i want the photo too =D I have many artworked cards for this deck (eyvind earle Fauna Shaman, Mucha Mother of Runes, Full art bops... ) ^^

@Demonic: Half right, for me. I mean, one of the deck's problem is the part of closing the lock/game, where you reach a stabilized board that could be ruined by some topdecks or strange 1x (ironically). I've lost so many games for this reasons, and even if now we have Spell Queller (aka, an insurance) having the possibility of closing the game on the spot is huge. I've retaken the deck and i'm testing it on cocka in order to buy it on MTGO, and for now the tests are going extremely well (i've faced only tempo and control decks, especially esper blade control which's a very good mu for us) and i've closed the 80% of the game with Iona.
It's just so easy, so safe, so "sudden" (the problem of 2 activations is rarely important, if Fauna survive to be activated one time probably she'll be there for another one).
And i've naturally drawn Loyal winning a game reanimating another leggendary creature in the grave =)

@For All, opinion on the new Ajani?

[pettdan]

We all know that combo elements are clunky, but we can still test them. Nothing new here I guess. The new thing is that one of the combo elements is a Vial+looter+card advantage engine with toughness 3 [edit: oh yeah, Deathrite's gone too which makes Retainers relevant again]. Maybe a more in depth discussion would be good regarding which matchups that might benefit from a combo finisher. I'll think it through later. First thought is that decks like Cloudpost and Big Eldrazi can be hard to race and interact with. But that's not quite enough to motivate the maindeck slots..

Ajani, Wise Counselor is a bit expensive and effects are not that powerful. I still like Ajani, Caller of the Pride better than most alternatives. Comes down t2 [edit: with 5 loyalty], gives +1/+1 counters to counteract sweeper effects, easy to ultimate with game winning ultimate, playable through Gaddock. Still not worth it.

[Memories of the Time]

No, right, i was referring to Ajani, Adversary of Tyrants, especially the -2 is very strong in our deck i think

[pettdan]

Ah there were two Ajanis in the last set, what a surprise.. Well interesting, I don't know, I think coming down one turn earlier maybe makes Caller of the Wild better but the reanimate effect is sweet and double +1/+1 counters is a noticeable improvement. I'm a bit skeptical it will be worth it. There are creatures with similar types of effects and of course they gain so much by being creatures in this deck. What do you think.

Ah yeah, you basically said what you think. The thing is that Meren is so much better at bringing back creatures.. We could run both. I think I'd rather use Shaman of the Great Hunt, Shalai, Nissa Voice of Zendikar and perhaps Ajani, Caller of the Wild. If playing this new Ajani he needs to fill a certain role in relation to the current meta to be wworth it. Like: a) pressuring slow control decks, b) building stronger board presence vs creature heavy decks, and c) recurring Qasalis vs artifact heavy decks. I don't think we need these effects that bad right now or that they are good enough at it.

[Kanti]

1 Forest
2 Tropical Island
3 Savannah
2 Bayou
1 Tundra
7 Fetches

1 Dryad Arbor
3 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Noble Hierarch
3 Birds of Paradise
2 Scryb Ranger
4 Fauna Shaman
4 Aether Vial

3 Mother of Runes
2 Leovold, Emissary of Trest
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Orzhov Pontiff
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Spell Queller
1 Shalai

2 Decay
1 Jitte
4 Brainstorm

Seems to be the core of the deck, so that leaves 8 flex spots. I did want to ask why you guys like Spell Queller so much. Isn't Sanctum Prelate a bit better? The ability to proactively lock out some decks seems very strong. I don't know if I would skip playing Prelate as this deck, as you can set up some locks with Prelate+Mage/Teeg that are hard to get out of. I probably woudn't skip running Mage either, as he seems very strong. Brightling looks damn good, seems like a real house against fair-decks like Goblins, and it also looks very good against Miracles. Brightling vs TNN are probably fighting for the same spot. Even though Brightling is a house, TNN might just be better.

As far as StP goes, it is also good against the menace that is Marit Lage, so you have some more reason to run it. I think it's a pretty solid include.

edit: Why try to jam Force in the SB instead of running some number of Thoughtseize, or Flusterstorms? Being online t0 doesn't seem like the greatest upside.

edit2: Would a miser Living Wish be good with a 10+ creature SB? Seems like a random 1-off Wish would not be bad at all as this decks SB is chock full of goodies. Also, why no more love for Tradewind? He seems damn good off a Show and Tell, and probably solid against anything as he can bounce lands or permanents. Why not run him over an Elendra?

[pettdan]

Hello Kanti, much welcome if you're new here! I kind of recognize your username but not sure from which thread.

I'll provide some feedback here, but remember that the deck sees so little play that nothing is predetermined or to be considered true. That looks like a good starting point for a list yes, but there are different styles of this deck.

Spell Queller or Sanctum Prelate is a valid question, I tried it because I wanted to try it since it's printing but primarily because Demonic_Pact was putting up results with it. I could see someone trying Prelate over it, for sure. Prelate is a card that comes and goes for me, it seems great and then it didn't do enough and I change it into something else and then after a while it's back again.

Regarding Brightling or True-Name Nemesis, I don't know really. Brightling can surviev a sweeper and provides lifelink, both are great advantages so I think it's valid to test him over TNN. Vs Miracles Brightling seems quite the MVP, but vs Lands you'd probably rather have TNN since it cannot be unmazed. If you play maindeck FoW's then blue count is obviously a consideration as well.

StP: it's probably good enough, yes, but it comes with the cost of a lower creature count.

FoW: This is another card that I change back and forth. When you meet t1 Blood Moon or Belcher, even a t2 Crop Rotation from Lands, you wish you had FoW. It also has utility vs both combo decks and control decks, it's hard to debate its utility. In practice the 1-mana spells are often good enough, like you say. One thing to perhaps consider is that now that Meren gives consistent access to graveyard creatures we have a reliable sorce of card advantage, so we may be able to better afford losing card advantage to FoW in order to secure an advantagous board position from a sweeper or just to protect against Jitte, Goyf, whatever. Well, it's just speculation... But, in a meta where for example Toxic Deluge is played in some very popular deck, the value of having access to FoW probably goes up a lot.

Wishes: I have experimented with Glittering Wish, I hardly remember why. Wishes slows down the deck and you can't tutor for them with Fauna Shaman, so putting a relevant creature in the maindeck over a Wish is probably the way to go. You can try it of course.

Tradewind Rider: Is probably not even that great to put in off a Show and Tell, even though that's a good spot to use him, chances are high that they'll put in Omniscience and then cast Emrakul with an extra turn. Tradewind Rider is good, I didn't play him for a few years due to Miracles being a very popular deck. You don't want to play into a sweeper effect, which is a good example of when you do want Glenn Elendra as it has quite the opposite effect when facing a sweeper. You also don't want to go through the effort of establishing control with a Tradewind Rider only to have the opponent drop a TNN and ignore your beautifully advanced game-state (such an interactive, fun card, TNN). Basically, once you have a vial on 4 and an active Fauna Shaman, many games are over because you get to instant speed tutor for Glenn Elendra and counter the next two non-creature spells of your choice. Especially vs combo decks this is basically game over, vs control decks it's very strong. If you instead put in a Tradewind Rider chances are you'll be dead next turn. In order to play Tradewind Rider, you would need to go through the popular decks of the format and decide which he'd be favorable in. Suppose Miracles, Stoneblade, DnT and RUG Delver are popular decks in the meta. I wouldn't really want Tradewind Rider vs any of those.

[Demonic Pact]

Hi Kanti, thanks for posting :)

What you describe as the core of the deck seems fairly accurate. I'd probably leave up even more flex slots, something like
16 lands
Arbor
5 dorks
3 GSZ
4 Vial
4 Brainstorm
4 Fauna Shaman

but the creatures you have in addition to these are basically universally run so you're not wrong ;)

re: specific cards you mentioned, I mostly agree with pettdan but wrote some comments anyway...


Seems to be the core of the deck, so that leaves 8 flex spots. I did want to ask why you guys like Spell Queller so much. Isn't Sanctum Prelate a bit better? The ability to proactively lock out some decks seems very strong. I don't know if I would skip playing Prelate as this deck, as you can set up some locks with Prelate+Mage/Teeg that are hard to get out of. I probably woudn't skip running Mage either, as he seems very strong.
I currently run all of these in the main (Queller, Prelate, Teeg and Meddling Mage) as well as 2 additional copies of Prelate in the board...
Queller gives you the option of playing reactively. This might be a playstyle thing, I do have a tendency to try and play around too many things so whenever I can I postpone decisions as long as I can (i.e. here until my opponent plays a spell)...but in situations where you have active Fauna Shaman and possibly even Aether Vial, you have so many options that you can really benefit from seeing what your opponents move is before choosing your own optimal one. That said, I definitely agree that setting up locks with Prelate/Mage/Teeg/Mom is my gameplan quite frequently so would also argue for the inclusion of those cards. Meddling Mage being the least "core" of all of them due to it only affecting a single card and lots of decks having a variety of removal or otherwise relevant cards...


Brightling looks damn good, seems like a real house against fair-decks like Goblins, and it also looks very good against Miracles. Brightling vs TNN are probably fighting for the same spot. Even though Brightling is a house, TNN might just be better.
Still haven't been able to try Brightling. I have some concerns, mainly the amount of white mana you want to sink into it (we don't often have that much W up) and how much mana in general it wants in a deck that doesn't really ever have spare mana due to a rather high mana curve (unless you have a Vial, with Vial Brightling is probably amazing).
TNN plays some roles that are hard to replace (fogging equipment, attacking through board stalls/Maze of Ith, blocking big things like Angler,...


As far as StP goes, it is also good against the menace that is Marit Lage, so you have some more reason to run it. I think it's a pretty solid include.
Definitely a reasonable card. Solves some problems like large creatures (especially colorless ones)...not being a creature is a serious disadvantage to any card in the deck, Vial is the only non-creature I am certain is worth including...and Brainstorm because that's essentially at least one creature. I've considering cutting Decay too, but it's flexibile enough to stay atm (and hits Jitte which is huge)
Against Marit Lage, getting a flyer and Mom into play is a very reasonable plan.


edit: Why try to jam Force in the SB instead of running some number of Thoughtseize, or Flusterstorms? Being online t0 doesn't seem like the greatest upside.
Possibly bias as I died a bunch of times on T0/T1 since the DRS ban but could just be a temporary meta thing or variance...for both TS and Fluster we only have 10-11 lands that cast them (2-3 duals + 10 fetch) which isn't the best odds for T1. Fluster especially requires you leaving up mana all the time in a deck that demands a lot of mana to be spent on your own main phase, especially in the first few turns). Force gives you the zero mana interaction that would fix a few problems the deck has (not interacting before T2, wanting to spend all its mana on its own turn)


edit2: Would a miser Living Wish be good with a 10+ creature SB? Seems like a random 1-off Wish would not be bad at all as this decks SB is chock full of goodies. Also, why no more love for Tradewind? He seems damn good off a Show and Tell, and probably solid against anything as he can bounce lands or permanents. Why not run him over an Elendra?
Living Wish sounds kinda clunky but decent. Although it's probably worse than something like the 4th GSZ. Only finding SB creatures is a bit meh as a lot of the toolbox is already in the MD...Living Wish gives you the advantage of effectively extending your toolbox to your sideboard...but in this deck it would also make the toolbox of Fauna/GSZ smaller by a card because it would most likely be displacing a creature.
Tradewind is super slow. It also requires a board to do anything and if I have a board and can find/play a 4drop, I'm usually happier protecting the board with said 4drop, i.e. Shalai/Glen Elendra. Vs. S&T specifically, I'd rather drop something like Palace Jailer/Gilded Drake or Rec Sage to blow up Omni...

Current decklist for reference:
http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=19631&d=325837&f=LE

[Kanti]

I think my favorite thing about Prelate so far is that it protects itself. Even if your opponent does have an StP, or Bolt in hand, if they let that thing resolve chances are I am naming 1cc, and then it becomes very hard to get rid of it. Contrast this with having to have a MoM on board to make Spell Queller not become a Remand when it gets blasted off the field. I think TNN fogging Maze, and hitting a Jace no matter what makes it worth it's weight. Brightling looks very cool, but the power to bypass interaction is always nice in a format filled with so much interaction.

edit: I see no love for Teeg. This deck already feels like it has a lack of GSZ goodies. Hierach, BoP, and Arbor isn't enough, and going Fauna Shaman->hatebear seems meh. t2 Teegs seem rather saucy.

edit2: I can't help but feel like a Sylvan Library would be very nice somewhere in the MD. It's so damn good for Maverick.

late edit: Why the love for Brainstorm as a 4-of? I kind of like it, but I can't help but feel the need to cut some non-creature spells to fit in X amount of Thalias, to increase the hate-bear density. The Swords have been MVP's for me so far, so I get nervous cutting them. Testing this creature package with a 2/2/2 split of BS/AD/StP:

1 Dryad Arbor
2 Noble Hierarch
3 Birds of Paradise
2 Scryb Ranger
4 Fauna Shaman
3 Mother of Runes
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Leovold, Emissary of Trest
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Meddling Mage
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Sanctum Prelate
1 Orzhov Pontiff
1 True-Name Nemesis
1 Shalai, Voice of Plenty
1 Meren of Clan Nel Toth
1 Glen Elendra Archmage

[Demonic Pact]

I agree with your points on Prelate and Teeg.
I had some amount of issue with Prelate prior to the DRS ban, since there were a lot of 3-4c control decks with removal spells at CMC 1, 2 and 3...yet I still felt it was good enough to play. Now that these decks are mostly gone and we're facing a more streamlined removal suite of mostly Bolts and Swords it should be even better. So I feel the 1 main and 2 side I have are warranted.
And I do play Teeg ;) I've always played it and can't imagine cutting it. Card is great.

I have played a copy of Sylvan Library before and it has matchups where it shines and others where it sucks. I currently don't play it, but that seems like a meta call. I feel there's some overlap between what it does and what Brainstorm does for us though and I don't currently miss having it.

If you've ever played with/against Brainstorm (of course you have ^^) you know how strong of a card it is. Likely the most powerful card in the format. And I have always been of the opinion that it's even better in this deck than almost any other deck in legacy. We have a lot of 1ofs for specific games/situations, thus drawing extra cards and getting rid of cards that don't fit the gamestate is even more powerful here than in most decks. Additionally, we have a very large amount of shuffle effects. 8 fetch, some number of GSZ, Fauna Shaman activations. Obviously the skill ceiling on the card is very high and it only adds more options to the deck which already ends up in tons of situations where you have a very large amount of options and you win/lose by the decisions you make. But that's part of the fun ;)

That creature suite is very close to mine. You play the 3 Thalias and Meren where I play Queller, Clique, Revoker and Rallier. I can't fault you for your selection, it seems both consistent with a game plan and powerful. Giving up Queller and Clique in one go makes sense as it moves your gameplan (other than vial) entirely to Sorcery speed which usually is better/easier than having a mix of things you want to do and things you want to leave up. I am personally not too keen on Thalia in this deck. It loses quite a bit of its power compared to in Maverick lists as the extra time you get from her disrupting your opponent doesn't translate to a Knight smashing them in the face and isn't combined with Wastelands to really make them feel the tax. But which selection of creatures is better is always playstyle and metagame dependant...

[pettdan]

edit: I see no love for Teeg.

Gaddock is too established in the deck to discuss not playing him, that's why there was no comment, at least from me. Plenty of love for Gaddock!


edit2: I can't help but feel like a Sylvan Library would be very nice somewhere in the MD. It's so damn good for Maverick.
Sylvan is usually played, but in a Brainstorm build it quickly gets replaced by a Brainstorm. I could see playing 3 Brainstorm and 1 Sylvan, but Brainstorm is no doubt a very very good card. Do as you please!

[Kanti]

Thoughts on Phantom Nantuko or Jenara, Asura of War? The bug looks especially interesting at it doesn't die in combat, doesn't die to Bolt, can blank opposing Jittes, combos with the x2 Scryb Ranger, and of course gets tutored by GSZ, has a very chill mana cost if you need to hard cast it, and last but not least is not a legendary. Jenara I am maybe less enthused for, but she looks damn good as well. 3/3 flyer than can be a mana sink can close games out very quickly. Can be an option for racing, or an option against a flipped Delver.

Also I saw mentioned that Tradewind Rider isn't good against Delver. Am I wrong to think it's decent? 4cc creature that can't be Pierced, can block a flipped Delver as soon as it comes into play, and proceed to bounce them next turn while chumping Nimble. Shalai's Ivory Mask effect is damn strong, so I can see how she is better, but Rider looks alright against the fair-decks while maybe coming online fast enough against SnT or BG Depths. Atraxa might be better than both, seeing as it's a bomb on it's own, and can be accessed with GSZ.

side note, Revoker might be a better hate bear than Meddling Mage g1. You can hit all sorts of shit, and more importantly you can hit something thats already on the field causing you trouble, rather than top-decking a Mage at some point through the match, or really needing to be able to Fauna-tutor up a Pithing Needle on-legs. And... the mana cost is more chill to boot!

[Demonic Pact]

I feel like TNN and Atraxa are just better cards to have in similar roles to Phantom Nantuko and Jenara.

Tradewind is ok against Delver...it has 4 toughness which helps a lot. It also costs 4 however and the most common build of Delver atm is RUG and resolving 4drops past Wasteland, Stifle, Daze and FoW is hard. If I do get to resolve a 4drop, I'm much happier with it being Atraxa or Shalai...

Revoker hitting things already on the Battlefield is great. It also stops Jitte which is always a massive bonus...While I do play both main, I don't think Revoker or Meddling Mage are cards you have to play in the MD.

What you have talked about repeatedly is the lack of GSZ targets and I agree there are a lot of creatures it can't get, but I feel there's still more than enough that it can. Essentially you can go X=0 for Arbor, X=1 for a dork, X=2 for Fauna/Ooze/Scryb/Teeg/Pridemage, X=3 for Rallier/Leovold and X=4 for Atraxa...that seems easily good enough but trimming any of those options quickly makes the GSZs worse...

[Kanti]

Revoker/Mage, you don't need to run one of these MD. But if I had to run a x1 hate-bear (meaning I'm not going to consistently draw it) and have to consider the fact that my deck runs Fauna Shaman then I am probably running Revoker. Chances of me resolving my 1-of Meddling Mage, or 1-of Thalia if I run her, and it having an impact are small. Being able to tutor up Revoker to deal with anything that my opponent wants to resolve, or more importantly has already resolved, in the mid-game feels like a much better option.

I don't run Atraxa or Rallier. You could imagine without those my options are a little more limited. Care to tell me why you love Rallier so much actually? I am interested in testing it. Seems like a damn good 2-for-1 and is probably better than beater #2. I run Meren, but sometimes GSZ for Meren is not what I want, because sometimes I want to GSZ for a big-fat threat (I think this is where Atraxa would come in). I think TNN is for sure better than Phantom Nantuko, and maybe Brightling is even better than Nantuko though it's mana investment is crazy. I don't think they are exclusive though. Here's the creature package that I'm running. I cut a BS to fit in the Nantuko, so 4 Vial, 3 BS, 2 AD, 2 StP, 1 Jitte for non-creature spells, 17 lands.

Whoever added Pontiff to the main-deck, bless you. If every card was as good as Pontiff has been to me I wound't even need to post on this finger-painting forum. Every time I've resolved it I have won.

1 Dryad Arbor
2 Noble Hierarch
3 Birds of Paradise
2 Scryb Ranger
4 Fauna Shaman
3 Mother of Runes
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Leovold, Emissary of Trest
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Sanctum Prelate
1 Orzhov Pontiff
1 Phantom Nantuko
1 True-Name Nemesis
1 Atraxa, Smasher of Delvers
1 Meren of Clan Nel Toth
1 Glen Elendra Archmag

edit: still no love for Spell Queller as that card has only caused me pain. I started testing this deck with the x2 StP version though and they have been absolutely amazing for me thus far. Having only 2 removal spells in the vein of AD is too few for me, so bumping it up to 4 and letting me actually blast some Mirran Crusader off the field before he bashes my face in feels great. Would not cut the x2 StPs for more critters just yet. Maybe, maybeee, I'd test cutting 1 for a Shriekmaw so I can Fauna Tutor up some sexy-ness and enter Magical Christmas Land when I chain Shriekmaw with Meren? Pretty sure thats getting ahead of myself, and also pretty sure the non-black clause matters a lot in Legacy.

[Memories of the Time]

Is Pontiff still good now, since that D&t is already good and grixis is down a bit i think?

[Kanti]

Is Pontiff still good now, since that D&t is already good and grixis is down a bit i think?

DnT a good match-up sans Pontiff? I don't think so. With it? Yes, if your Shaman doesn't get Revoker'd and you get to untap and hardcast a Pontiff that should pretty much be GG. The card is a true silver bullet. Lock n' load, aim, and fire at any nearby Elves player for a concession.

side note: Nantuko been doing better than I expected so far. Used it once to make itself a monster 12/12 under a Peacekeeper, and another time to grind hard against RUG, fetching it with GSZ.

[Demonic Pact]

While Pontiff is obviously amazing, DnT is still a fine matchup without. Really depends on the skill on both sides...and obviously sometimes they'll have draws that line up with your draws in a way that means you can't cast spells. But you have some pretty unfair cards for the matchup like TNN. The only way you lose is Jitte and getting Waste/Ported out of the game...

But have always thought and still think Pontiff is great. Yes, Young Pyromancer is mostly gone, but it seems there are at least as many TNNs running around out of Blade decks. Also now kills the mana dork out of decks like Bant Blade where it used to not kill the mana dork everyone played (DRS). Also kills baby Mongeese, baby Delvers, random Strixes and Snapcasters, Goblin tokens out of Storm decks, Goblins, Elves, DnT and Maverick creatures, ...

Growing Nantuko under Peacekeeper sounds great but I guess with Shalai you already have a way to do this anyway (plus added protection for your Peacekeeper) and you can just make a lethal TNN...have done this before, it's fun ^^ It sounds good vs. RUG, being Zenithable is obviously a big plus and being at X=3 vs. X=4 for Atraxa does matter. Still think Atraxa is better to have though.

Oh, and I really like Rallier because it let's you reuse things, gains tempo and is a 2 for 1. I started off with an Eternal Witness, but that feels too clunky without Aether Vial in play. Perhaps if you play Swords to Plowshares Witness is better in your list, but Rallier has always been solid for me. Easy to get Revolt with Scryb Ranger often just in case you didn't see that line ;) With Meren being an option now that DRS is gone however, this might just be replaceable (Meren is in my SB right now) although I'm wary of going up to 3 MD 4drops and Atraxa and Shalai are definitely higher in the pecking order for me...

I'll take your success with StP as a reason to try the card. I'll have to figure out how to fit them in though. I've tried Shriekmaw and it has issues, not hitting Angler or Revoker are the main 2...I also tried Reflector Mage in this slot, which wasn't outstanding either. So hardremoval will have to come from spells for now, unless I somehow like Stalking Leonin? I could try that one ^^

[Kanti]

Thoughts on playing a Peacekeeper in the maindeck? Obviously a bit meta dependant, but it is good against a whole lot of the field. It has some really good synergy with Meren, allowing us to basically lock our opponents out of combat while we are able to attack. That's susceptible to graveyard, so we could also just keep the Peacekeeper around and buff our team with Shalai or buff up a Nantuko to a 20/20 trampler. Getting out Scryb Rangers here to support a MoM is usually very important, as your opponent will be building up to x2 removal to try and play around MoM. Maybe I'm getting carried away, but it seems very strong against some of the fair decks in the format and well positioned against the three premier combo decks of the format right now: UB Reanimator, Sneak and Show, Turbo Depths.

Think I was questioning why we needed Brainstorm in this deck, and cut down to 3 copies and was feeling okay. I decided to be risky and cut down to 2 copies. Don't think I'll be doing that again, but I also don't think I need the full playset. 3 is my schweet spot.

I haven't played against a BMoon deck yet, but I do wonder how that will roll. Something tells me being on the play and fetching a basic Forest->1cc dork is very important, and having a hand that doesn't force me to GSZ into a dork is probably equally as important so I can save it for Qasali. I also think this is a match-up where Sage>Qasali all day long. What do you guys think of Sage>Qasali md? Probably a bad choice, as it can be great vs Stoneblade to GSZ out, but you open yourself up to Daze a little more. Seems a little better against Counterbalance, and obviously better against anything BMoon, and can't get Revoker'd. No mini-combo with Meren is a bummer, 3cc is a bummer, and no exalted is bad too, so there are downsides. I'm sure this has been brough up x100 times in the Maverick thread as well.

Reflector Mage sounds like a killer card! That is a valuable effect to have on tap with Fauna Shaman. Might be worst shaving down to a singleton Swords for that one...

[Demonic Pact]

MD Peacekeeper is perfectly reasonable, obviously meta dependant as you mentioned. I agree it's fine against a large part of the field.
Never really thought of the Meren+Peacekeeper soft lock, requires you having 3 experience counters though (or vial) and with a Meren surviving and reanimating up to a 3drop every turn you should be able to win pretty much regardless what you're getting back. Still cool though ;)

Brainstorm is really just that good. This is legacy after all ^^

In Blood Moon matchups Vial is easily the best card. But yeah, Forest into Dork goes a long way and having a single G available is enough to Zenith for a way to remove Moon.
Not sure on Pridemage vs. Rec Sage either, I currently play the Pridemage main and the Rec Sage in the board but I guess which one is better depends on the exact application. My reasoning is that Pridemage is a better card in situations where you don't need to use it thus it's main for me and Rec Sage has some key advantages and should always have a target in the matchups you're bringing it in so should be the better creature to come out of the board. But I could be wrong...

[Kanti]

Was jamming vs Elves and the lock came up a bunch, mostly because I didn’t know how to close the game out. Teeg stops NO, Leo stops Glimpse, but I don’t run Meddling Mage to stop hardcast Craterhoof. Peacekeeper is a nice way to run out 1 piece of hate instead of having to assemble Voltron against them.

Walking Ballista has gotten no mention here. Seems like an extremely good card, amazing tech vs any MoM deck, and could potentially get pumped up faster in our deck via Birds+Ranger. Don’t know where I would fit in, maybe somewhere in the main, but the more I think about it the more I like it.

[pettdan]

Peacekeeper usually comes and goes in my decks. Having a tutorable, viable Ensnaring Bridge is great. When I use it, I tend to follow up with Meren and a Fauna Shaman then tutor for and play about 2 creatures a turn until I can alpha strike the opponent, but if you have evasion you can let the Peacekeeper die and attack every turn, like you say. I would first try to get some protection into play, like a Glen Elendra and whatever is relevant for the matchup, but then using Meren either way tends to lead to a win.

I prefer Qasali over Reclamation Sage (in the maindeck and in general). The major advantage is being operable at instant speed, this can be good vs e.g. Inkmoth Nexus, Batterskull, occasionally a LED from storm can be destroyed while they are playing things out. Second advantage I think is the offensive value, both hitting for 3 at 2 mana and boosting creatures with evasion through the Exalted ability. Third I think is the great interaction with Meren. Fourth could be that you have the option to play the Qasali proactively and start attacking while waiting for a potential target. Reclamation Sage could be played over a second Qasali, personally I tend to have it in the board if I play it (as a third Qasali, usually). Sometimes there's a Needle or Spyglass on Qasali and then having a Reclamation Sage can be good.

Walking Ballista works, but it always seemed too inefficient for me [edit: it's mentioned at 6 places in the primer though, plenty of potential synergies such as Grand Architect and Glissa, the Traitor]. Also it doesn't work with Meren. You can test it, there's nothing wrong with it. I'd only play it if I was playing some extra mana generation in the deck, like Rofellos or Cradle. Mother of Runes is not typically a big problem. We tend to have the Mother advantage due to Scryb Ranger, we also tend to have Pontiff to clear opposing Mothers. Key to winning vs DnT by the way, I think this may have been discussed here recently, is getting rid of their Jitte and Vial.

Great to see you trying things, Kanti!

Edit: I added Phantom Nantuko to the primer. It's an interesting card, though I'm not sure if it'll be worth it over other options. It can grow quite a lot with a Ranger, it's a spirit so it may have some tribal synergies (with Mausoleum Wanderer mainly) and it can also benefit from some +1/+1-counter synergies (like Winding Constrictor or Zameck Guildmage).

[pettdan]

Had a nice 3-1 run in the LGS weekly event, same list basically with a few sideboard updates. No time for details I'm afraid but here are the results:

List:http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?32280-M-O-S-T-Merieke-Opposition-(Survival)-Tradewind-Rider&p=1051094&viewfull=1#post1051094

R1: 2-0 vs Grixis Control
I get lucky. In g1 he stops on 2 lands for a while which lets me build a substantial board presence. In g2 I think he double hymns me and I draw into Mother, Kambal, Leovold. Which he doesn't get rid of.

R2: 2-0 vs Steel Stompy
I draw insane amounts of removal (2 decay for chalices, stp, qasali, gsz for qasali, jitte with counters). Second game similar.

R3: 0-2 vs BUG Delver
In g1 he FoWs t1 Vial then Wastes, Dazes and pushes all my mana sources.
In g2 i draw like 12 mana sources and 5 other cards, almost stabilize. No Brainstorms or Mothers I think in these games.

R4: 2-1 vs Miracles w Counterbalance and Back to Basics
Lots of Counterbalance, Councils Judgement and Back to Basics from him and lots of Gaddock, Glen Elendra and Shalai from me. Didn't get to Vial much, unfortunately.

[Cermak]

SMall repport:
https://www.screencast.com/t/H2iUT4eCke
Inspired by @pettda a legand in the stockholm Legacy commmunity known to have blackbelt in special creature deck often makeing the top 8. Normaly i offten like to paly blue white taxes or green white taxes. Got inspired by the MOST. So i when to look what Dan has built and took some lessons from mirrage era morphed it whit dans verison of the deck. In the end it become a 5 color deck, totaly kicked it as when mana allowed it to.

1:
WIN 1 - 0
Vs mox dimond, chalise, punishing maverikish black planewalkers deck.
Hard matchup some how i navigated out a ttn and equipments ager 40 minutes i stole the game aways
and we draved due time.'
2:
Win 1- 0
Elvis (mkm winner Linus)
I started land b.o.p, whit (pontiff and granger guildmage on the hand) plus qurion ranger-
he made super turn but could not go of so i sweeped the board, and got the granger controll plus played a second pontiff later. Very long game, i collected all the pices, to protect my self like after 40 minutes he concided.
Second game i got a enenering plague trun 2 and loats of hate so still i won
3:
Lost 0-2
nible stifle(viktor noremark)
first match Did not play tight at all and basicly give hi mthe match, he stffled faunashamna trigger never fun, plus hade more pressure
Next match hade maasinghand depenig heavy on the vails i got in opening hand but he played Nullrod turn 2 and killed my plan never got back the cotnroll and whit 3 tarmagoyf he kille me right in time before i would emty hees greave yeard
4:
win: 2-0 strom oliver.
He when to goblin i hade the pontiff + saskia the U, for 18 in one hit
i whent for leovold plus + cannonist R.I.P

Vey chanlanging deck to play quite mana heavy but i love tool box so this deck is for me i will develop over time.
Ps my spelling suck do not hate :)
decklist
https://www.screencast.com/t/H2iUT4eCke



18point of damage
https://www.screencast.com/t/1N8WjvYmEt

draw 4 cards
https://www.screencast.com/t/4vEIH4c8k5bq

[pettdan]

Thanks for sharing, Cermak! It's impressive how you 3-1 with the deck without even playtesting it (except for a few games just before the tournament if I got it right) and with your own unique twist of the deck. Both elves and punishing loam are tough matchups..

Cool thing is that another local is about to test the deck soon and he has a very unique twist he's brewing.. More on that later!

[Kanti]

Nice list Cermak. Been wanting to test SFM myself for a while too, it looks very strong. Fetching a Jitte to beat up creature decks with, or a SoFi to put some real pressure on Miracles looks to be damn good. Having access to SoLaS seems damn good too in this meta, Grixis control is real. I upped my Jitte up to 2 in testing for some games and really liked it. Going back to 1 and running a Sword+2 SFM is a very good option though. Takes up two more slots, sure, SFM is damn strong. Fauna->SFM against fair decks also becomes something that you coudn't do before, allowing Shaman to basically fetch out Jitte. Also love the Sylvan Library, it's a card I think this deck should really be using and abusing. Palace Jailer MD seems gravy as well. It's another removal, and Monarch can offer just as much CA as Meren. I've been thinking of replacing my Meren with a Jailer MD, but haven't gotten around to testing it yet. How has x1 Leovold done for you so far? I like Leovold, but a lot of times I find myself fetching for something else, or have wanted a different natural draw. Woudn't be against cutting down to x1 Leovold personally. What I REALLY want another copy of is TNN. Thing is a beast.

Sad you lost vs Stifle Nought. Peacekeeper maindeck seems VERY strong there, provided you have a MoM to back it up. Null Rod seems very hit or miss. You got hit, but I can imagine lots of hands where it does nothing until you can deal with it.

here is my list that I have been testing. Buying into MTGO soon... think I'm going to build this thing as I have been having quite some fun playtesting with friends. Hope I will have some more to post in the future!

4 Aether Vial
2 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Dryad Arbor
2 Noble Hierarch
3 Birds of Paradise
2 Scryb Ranger
4 Fauna Shaman
3 Mother of Runes
2 Leovold, Emissary of Trest
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Orzhov Pontiff
1 Sanctum Prelate
1 Glen Elendra Archmage
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 True-Name Nemesis
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Meren of Clan Nel Toth
1 Peacekeeper
1 Reclamation Sage
2 Abrupt Decay
3 Brainstorm
2 Swords to Plowshares
1 Snow-Covered Forest
2 Tropical Island
3 Savannah
2 Bayou
4 Misty Rainforest
3 Windswept Heath
1 Tundra
3 Green Sun's Zenith

3 Faerie Macabre
1 Containment Priest
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Walking Ballista
1 Palace Jailer
1 Sanctum Prelate
2 Bitterblossom
3 Thoughtseize

Replaced a Meddling Mage with Sanctum Prelate #2 in the side. Prelate is basically a better version of Meddling Mage. If you were going to name Bolt, Path, etc with Mage, just set your Prelate to 1 and be done with it. If you were going to name SnT, set it to 3. Were going to name Terminus? Yeah, set that thing to 6. Macabre has been an all star for me so far, extremely versatile card. It obviously hits Reanimator, but it's also great against PFire, Storm, Snapcaster Mage, Zombardment. Bitterblossom is there for the extra grindy match-ups, Miracles and Grixis Control. A steady stream of 1/1s is nothing to sneeze at. Walking Ballista is a versatile little card as well. I'll just quote Jeff Lu on it real quick:




It’s primarily for the mirror and decks with Baleful Strix, but there are also a number of decks where you’re happy to have a 2-mana removal spell for 1-toughness creatures. I board it in against Delver if they have Young Pyromancer, Bomat Courier, or especially Grim Lavamancer; it’s also strong against Infect, 4c Loam, and Elves. I also board it in against Miracles; games go long and they usually play around Wasteland, so having a card you can dump 8 mana into later on is pretty potent. It also punishes Miracles players who’ll go to a low life total against D&T, assuming you won’t have any way to win after they stabilize.

Ballista is just a really powerful, flexible card, and I think having access to 1 in the 75 is pretty mandatory with Recruiters. It does a lot more than you’d expect it to. For example, I had originally planned to board it in against Josh Utter-Leyton in the finals, boarding out all my Thalias, but convinced myself that I still wanted some Thalias on the play at the last minute. But if I’d had Ballista in my deck, I would have had an almost deterministic win with Recruiter of the Guard instead of needing to sweat my Palace Jailer draws.

I've tested it myself and really like it. It's not a silver bullet against a lot of decks, but it helps us get there. Past that, I replaced a Qasali in the main with a Sage as I found myself fetching Qasali only when I needed to blow something up on board, and most times that I hard cast it I had something to hit immediately. Given that I'd rather have a 2/1 around afterwards than some magical Christmasland Meren+Qasali combo (never got that going).

ps: thanks for teaching me how to quote, dude.

[Memories of the Time]

Welcome Cermak and congrats for your start with the deck =) Interesting list, i don't understand Saskia... it has been worked well for you? When do you want to tutor for it?

[pettdan]

@Kanti: I think that matchup was Nimble Stifle, that is BUG Threshold, not Dreadnought. Anyway..

Sylvan Library is quite often played, yes, and I agree it's great. With Grixis Control and Miracles being popular maybe we should even play two copies.. [Edit: but Brainstorm fixes otherwise impossible starting hands like with one land only or very clunky hands, also fixes late game flooding.]

Stoneforge is great and playing two can be ok, depending on what you want to be doing and what the meta looks like. You could argue it's played over Brainstorm in Cermak's list. You mention you want Sword of L&S vs Grixis Control, and it could be great but I've noticed before how Stoneforge decks become worse when Kolaghan's becomes more popular, so maaybe it would be wise to lower dependency on artifacts. Actually enchantments have been more the way to go for the past year or so, I think Bitterblossom and Sylvan are probably stronger options vs grixis control.. On the other hand it does offer serious card advantage. Like Meren, but on an artifact. Thinking of it, Meren is more accessible and easier to protect with Mother.. Edit: actually the protection it provides makes the sword very valuable vs Miracles, Grixis control and DnT and these are all very popular decks right now, I'll consider playing it next to Meren..

I agree that the Jailer is a very interesting option, too..

Edit: I feel like Meren gets active with a Qasali in the graveyard consistently in the matchups when I want it, nothing magical-Christmassy about it in my experience. But if you prefer maindecked Reclamation Sage then go for it.

Edit 2: It would be really sweet if you could record some of your MTGO-adventures once you get there, Kanti!

[Memories of the Time]

Ok, so, i've made my first three leagues on MTGO with the deck with this list https://deckstats.net/deck-16789974-de36d28de40dc684f952fc3dcefa2e9b.html

I've made 2-3 three times, obvs. Too many games lost by my mistakes, i've to admit it, i've lost like 6 games for them between my errors and missclicks (eh, i know): i've played only the last league without clear errors, and the variance has obviously stroken me harder <3

Vial has been the major point in these games, and i'm questioning again what is their net benefit. I've already lost two games for topdecking them with an active fauna, and in the current meta i don't see enough mass sweepers (except for Miracle and Grixis Control) to have to keep them without doubt.

[pettdan]

Vial is also great vs RUG Delver or any Delver deck really. And vs Lands. Probably vs dnt and goblins too.. And vialling in gilded drake, gaddock, canonist, spell queller, leovold, glen elendra or shalai can be very good vs combo decks too.. Well, nothing new really. Strangely enough I didn't have problems with Vial being a dead draw for a long time.

Really nice to hear that you are testing it, especially on MTGO. If you could record it or stream I'd like to watch some.

I think 5 anti graveyard cards in the sideboard is a bit much, I usually like 2 leylines and eg flusterstorm can also stop an early reanimation attempt but has overlap vs combo. Or invasive surgery that is great vs combo and a hard counter vs ellves and miracles..

How was retainers and iona? I miss Meren there.. And if playing retainers I'd put elesh norn in the board.

[Noctalor]

Question, why no one is considering the legendary Volrath's Shapeshifter?
Of course fauna is too bad to go full enlish breakfast, so the combo options are limited, but the card, while in play, should allow to freely "cast" at instant speed whatever is needed.

Maybe the opponent gets to interact with it too easily, but I would still give it a shot

[pettdan]

Interesting that you should bring up the topic, Noctalor, a friend will go all in on that but it may take a week or two for him to pick up the deck, test mine etc. I think it seems very promising, easy to set up thanks to Vial, hopefully, and potentially quite powerful.

[Kanti]

Ok, so, i've made my first three leagues on MTGO with the deck with this list https://deckstats.net/deck-16789974-de36d28de40dc684f952fc3dcefa2e9b.html

I've made 2-3 three times, obvs. Too many games lost by my mistakes, i've to admit it, i've lost like 6 games for them between my errors and missclicks (eh, i know): i've played only the last league without clear errors, and the variance has obviously stroken me harder <3

Vial has been the major point in these games, and i'm questioning again what is their net benefit. I've already lost two games for topdecking them with an active fauna, and in the current meta i don't see enough mass sweepers (except for Miracle and Grixis Control) to have to keep them without doubt.

You could always cut 1 and run another GSZ. Treat em' like legendaries by running 3. I've felt I lack ways to close out games, and sometimes get into pretty crap topdeck situations because my opponent is able to claw himself back into the game. More GSZ can help, and if you have enough mana GSZ->Meren is a pretty good reset. Testing a version with a little more beef in it and liking it so far. Replaced 1 Vial, 1 Levold, 1 Peacekeeper, and 1 Vendillion Clique for 2 Goyf, 1 TNN, 1 Bitterblossom. Goyf so far has surprised me in a good way. On paper it might look shit, but if you want beef your option is that or SFM package.Second TNN so far feels better than Clique. For the same mana I get a beater that my opponent has to answer. Obviously weaker against combo but can't win em' all.

[pettdan]

Goyf is reasonable, it can stabilize against Gurmag and/or an opposing Goyf after opponent has dealt with our key creatures or a sweeper.. Personally I won't play it because it's a bit expensive, financially, for the low utility it brings and so I'd just add a (-nother) TNN. Nevertheless, interesting change, Kanti..

I played 3 Vials for years to avoid that clunkiness but now with Brainstorms around it hasn't been a problem. Funny, I just updated the suggested core in the primer to represent that everyone seems to be on a full playset now.

[Memories of the Time]

I strongly believe that playing less than 4 vials is deeply wrong. Vial is a powerful but slow card and you want it in your open hand or never, so the correct number is obvs 0 or 4 imho. Playing like 3 vial you reduce its power by 1/4 at least.

I'm really unsure about meren, the fact that is a cc4 without an etb or a protection scares me. Moreover i will play Jailer md before her

[pettdan]

I think the whole 0 vs 4 copies discussion of many cards in many decks is usually fundamentally wrong, people have the perception that you're always right to minimize or maximize the number of copies of a card. The chances that any single copy is in your starting hand is not affected by how many other copies you play. You don't depend on having a copy in your starting hand. It's not central to the deck's strategy (many people even run/ran 0). And I disagree that it's only good on t1, although it's certainly at its best then. Anyway we have discussed this topic before, I'll leave it for now. And I agree it's a great card and 4 copies is probably right. But obviously playing 3 copies is the solution to the problem you described.

Jailer is very interesting.. Getting rid of opposing creatures including Showed in Emrakul is great, and getting card draw that's powerful vs control decks is also great. Meren does something very different, it basically turns your graveyard into your library letting you double up on key creatures for a matchup as well as "drawing" double cards every turn and the potential of putting creatures straight into play is just excessive value.

[Memories of the Time]

I've realised that i was sideboarding Jailer in like every MU, so the MD is probably his best spot
Another card i've looked upon in the last page is Saskia, i think that i'll test her... on MTGO i've lost 3 games already won due to time, btw.
I think she has many pros, like being zenithable, being able to close the game on spot ecc

[Cermak]

Welcome Cermak and congrats for your start with the deck =) Interesting list, i don't understand Saskia... it has been worked well for you? When do you want to tutor for it?

Hi thanks for the welcome. Its a surprice kill for planes walker and often does more than 10+ damage, but problem is red i do not want to play that color so in the new version I cut it out.
Still looking for a good creature removal spell, best I found is palace jailer, did you find any better? If not playing red any more?

[Vickas]

I have been brewing with Shapeshifter in MOST for a few weeks but only on xmage and exchanging ideas with, as Cermak said, the Legend Pettdan =)
Hopefully getting to try the deck in paper soon.

This version uses bigger creatures than the usual MOST with the help of VS. Fauna finds the big creatures or puts them in the graveyard for VS.
And other creatures like Elvish Piper or Loyal retainers can put the big creatures on the battlefield, but that's more like a bonus.
Arcane Artisan can also be used to take advantage of the big creatures.

You can do some fun things with VS and I hope I can post a report next week. This is probably the list I will use.

1x Atraxa, Praetors' Voice
3x Birds of Paradise
1x Dryad Arbor
1x Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1x Elvish Piper
1x Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4x Fauna Shaman
2x Griselbrand
1x Loyal Retainers
1x Meren of Clan Nel Toth
3x Mother of Runes
2x Noble Hierarch
1x Peacekeeper
1x Phage the Untouchable
1x Phyrexian Dreadnought
1x Qasali Pridemage
1x Shalai, Voice of Plenty
1x Tocatli Honor Guard
4x Volrath's Shapeshifter

1x Forest
1x Island
1x Plains
2x Savannah
2x Tropical Island
1x Tundra
1x Underground Sea
7x Fetches

4x Brainstorm
3x Swords to Plowshares
2x Green Sun's Zenith
4x Aether Vial

Sideboard
4x Force of Will
1x Gaddock Teeg
1x Kambal, Consul of Allocation
1x Leovold, Emissary of Trest
1x Meddling Mage
1x Orzhov Pontiff
1x Phyrexian Revoker
1x Qasali Pridemage
1x Sanctum Prelate
2x Surgical Extraction
1x Swords to Plowshares

[Cermak]

I have been brewing with Shapeshifter in MOST for a few weeks but only on xmage and exchanging ideas with, as Cermak said, the Legend Pettdan =)
Hopefully getting to try the deck in paper soon.

This version uses bigger creatures than the usual MOST with the help of VS. Fauna finds the big creatures or puts them in the graveyard for VS.
And other creatures like Elvish Piper or Loyal retainers can put the big creatures on the battlefield, but that's more like a bonus.
Arcane Artisan can also be used to take advantage of the big creatures.

You can do some fun things with VS and I hope I can post a report next week. This is probably the list I will use.

1x Atraxa, Praetors' Voice
3x Birds of Paradise
1x Dryad Arbor
1x Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1x Elvish Piper
1x Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4x Fauna Shaman
2x Griselbrand
1x Loyal Retainers
1x Meren of Clan Nel Toth
3x Mother of Runes
2x Noble Hierarch
1x Peacekeeper
1x Phage the Untouchable
1x Phyrexian Dreadnought
1x Qasali Pridemage
1x Shalai, Voice of Plenty
1x Tocatli Honor Guard
4x Volrath's Shapeshifter

1x Forest
1x Island
1x Plains
2x Savannah
2x Tropical Island
1x Tundra
1x Underground Sea
7x Fetches

4x Brainstorm
3x Swords to Plowshares
2x Green Sun's Zenith
4x Aether Vial

Sideboard
4x Force of Will
1x Gaddock Teeg
1x Kambal, Consul of Allocation
1x Leovold, Emissary of Trest
1x Meddling Mage
1x Orzhov Pontiff
1x Phyrexian Revoker
1x Qasali Pridemage
1x Sanctum Prelate
2x Surgical Extraction
1x Swords to Plowshares

Cool innovative Version, version. Let us know how it goes in realy tournamts !

[Cermak]

I realy got hook by most after last weeks success, and after analyzing why it actually the durability you can the build the deck with so many unexplored variations compared with all other decks. When I started play I always loved playing green and when I did my pro tour debut i played 5 colorish green. So the creature toolbox deck will always be close to my heart.

A team of stockholm gathered yesterday to play test before MKM Paris. After the success last wednesday i noticed that some changes should be done so I took an new grip on the deck.
Very underplayed cards I think is Winter orb.
with 10 mana fixers. 4 vials, 4 mana dorks, 2 mana jumpers winter orb should be really be viable for this version of the deck,
After getting feedback from this thread I also added 2 leovold plus 2 strixes after dying to tarmogoyf, delver and TS.
runes + strix is a lovely greedy combo.

I also have great success birds of paradise with equipments!
So for denial i added 2 thalia + 1 big talia, and took out mana consumption like GSZ
--------------
Last version i played against Punkartz stockholm top player winning most tournament in our meta.
Plays a very aggressive bug sweeper liliana a real nightmare, goyfs, delver, TS beet down, and lilianas pushes and decays to removal.
Last wednesday i playtested 0 wins for me and 45 wins for Mer P.

So we played 3 matches not sideboarding and 4 matches side boarded.
And actually I won 7-0

After that I went to meet another player in the Sthlm meta. He played miracles
Here I hade huge problems, I die 4 games to to sweepers and mentor :(

Please give feedback on the list.
What should I add to kill miracles?
4 Aether Vial
1 Atraxa, Praetors' Voice
2 Baleful Strix
1 Bayou
2 Birds of Paradise
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Edric, Spymaster of Trest
1 Ethersworn Canonist
3 Fauna Shaman
1 Forest
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Glen Elendra Archmage
1 Karakas
2 Leovold, Emissary of Trest
2 Mother of Runes
2 Noble Hierarch
1 Orzhov Pontiff
1 Palace Jailer
2 Qasali Pridemage
1 Quirion Ranger
2 Recruiter of the Guard
2 Savannah
1 Scrubland
1 Scryb Ranger
1 Shalai, Voice of Plenty
3 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
2 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
1 Tropical Island
1 Tundra
3 Wasteland
4 Windswept Heath
2 Winter Orb
3 Wooded Foothills

Great thread!
MOST to the top 8!

[Memories of the Time]

@Vickas: Interesting idea, for me in your deck is wrong to play less than 4 MoR and probably even a Safekeeper. Even for the creature package i'm unsure, Why Tocatli? The combo with Dreadnought seems really underpowered, seeing what other things the deck can do. Probably you could want a 2x of Sylvan Library too?

@Cermak: I'm really unsure about your decklist, i fear that you want to do too many different things at once, lowering the already low consistence of the deck. Plus, every time you reduce the number of Fauna, Mother, Dorks to increase lands ecc you also reduce the effectiviness of cards like Quirion and Scryb and, in a more broad view, the structure of the deck.
Winter orb is a strong card but meta-dependent if you want to play it md. You probably don't need Thalia 2.0 or a MD Canonist, anyway, but try it and see =)

@MTGO: Reached a 4-1 with Most, last list but :
-1 Shalai -1 Leovold moved to SB
+1 Jailer +1 Saskia (yeah, without a Taiga, we can do it)

T1: D&T 2-1
g1: I'm otp, i have mother and Fauna, put togheter Iona very fast, no karakas, gg
g2: He has 4 stp in the first 4 turns to every dorks or mother i play + wasteland and vial, easy gg
g3: I have like bop, Fauna, Meddling on stp and a Prelate a 4 with vial, he has SFM equipped with jitte, Flicker and Thalia. I draw Saskia and tutor for Pontiff, gg

T2: Ant 2-1
I'm otd, keep an hand good vs non combo decks, lost t3
g2: Mother+fauna and Iona to ensure the gg
g3: Got some pieces, draw zenith, make some maths -> Saskia, gg <3

t3:Turbodepths 0-2
g1: Perfect hand, 2 seize and combo a t3
g2: Nice hand, vial at 3, jailer, bop+mother, something else... Combo out, Rite of Consumption, no Fauna for Queller, gg

t4: Another D&T 2-0
Two easy win, don't remember much between this one and the other one, anyway another game stolen by Saskia

5t: Elves 2-1
Mull every game but kept good 6-cards hands
g1: peacekeeper t3, gg
g2: Combo off at turn 3 otp
g3: Iona on t4

[pettdan]

Good to hear, congratulations on the results, Memories! I agree with all of your comments, will probably spend some time thinking more about it later, maybe tomorrow. For Vickas, I think you could play Varolz, the Scar-striped over Tocatli. But even that may be unnecessary. I'm not sure if Dreadnought is needed at all, seems like it will just be clunky. But I guess an advantage is that if you get a Shapeshifter into play you can easily surprise the opponent by vialling in a Dreadnought and having it go straight to the graveyard, boosting the VS, or just mainphase hardcasting the Dreadnought for 1.

[Cermak]

@Vickas: Interesting idea, for me in your deck is wrong to play less than 4 MoR and probably even a Safekeeper. Even for the creature package i'm unsure, Why Tocatli? The combo with Dreadnought seems really underpowered, seeing what other things the deck can do. Probably you could want a 2x of Sylvan Library too?

@Cermak: I'm really unsure about your decklist, i fear that you want to do too many different things at once, lowering the already low consistence of the deck. Plus, every time you reduce the number of Fauna, Mother, Dorks to increase lands ecc you also reduce the effectiviness of cards like Quirion and Scryb and, in a more broad view, the structure of the deck.
Winter orb is a strong card but meta-dependent if you want to play it md. You probably don't need Thalia 2.0 or a MD Canonist, anyway, but try it and see =)

@MTGO: Reached a 4-1 with Most, last list but :
-1 Shalai -1 Leovold moved to SB
+1 Jailer +1 Saskia (yeah, without a Taiga, we can do it)

T1: D&T 2-1
g1: I'm otp, i have mother and Fauna, put togheter Iona very fast, no karakas, gg
g2: He has 4 stp in the first 4 turns to every dorks or mother i play + wasteland and vial, easy gg
g3: I have like bop, Fauna, Meddling on stp and a Prelate a 4 with vial, he has SFM equipped with jitte, Flicker and Thalia. I draw Saskia and tutor for Pontiff, gg

T2: Ant 2-1
I'm otd, keep an hand good vs non combo decks, lost t3
g2: Mother+fauna and Iona to ensure the gg
g3: Got some pieces, draw zenith, make some maths -> Saskia, gg <3

t3:Turbodepths 0-2
g1: Perfect hand, 2 seize and combo a t3
g2: Nice hand, vial at 3, jailer, bop+mother, something else... Combo out, Rite of Consumption, no Fauna for Queller, gg

t4: Another D&T 2-0
Two easy win, don't remember much between this one and the other one, anyway another game stolen by Saskia

5t: Elves 2-1
Mull every game but kept good 6-cards hands
g1: peacekeeper t3, gg
g2: Combo off at turn 3 otp
g3: Iona on t4


Congrats!
May i ask how do you play Iona?

[Memories of the Time]

Congrats!
May i ask how do you play Iona?

My list is some post ago, anyway Iona+Loyal Retainers =)

[Cermak]

My list is some post ago, anyway Iona+Loyal Retainers =)
wow thats a sick unexplored combo!

must feel so great to get on the board :)

[Vickas]

@Memories and pettdan: I know that another MoR instead of Tocatli would probably be better. But I like to experiment and test if she can be useful, not for the Dreadnought, I'm thinking of all other creatures that uses ETB triggers
Snapcaster mage
Baleful strix
Flickerwisp
Stoneforge mystic
Goblins
Recruiter of the guard
Etc etc..
The Dreadnought is just a bonus.
If it doesn't work out I'll probably replace both Tocatli and Dreadnought with another MoR and Scavenging Ooze

[pettdan]

Great Vickas, there's so much potential for experiments..

Cermak: regarding your question on beating Miracles, it's a matchup where you need to plan for meeting their answers, I think. It's quite an effort writing about it, but I need to be brief here unfortunately. Vials are great because they don't get to counter your spells and by putting creatures into play at EOT you can pressure them and importantly Jace, they won't be able to plan for how to respond to your threats and they can't interact at sorcery speed. Unfortunately Engineered Explosives seems popular now so they have a great md answer, it may be a good idea to save your secon Vial in hand..

Vialling in Gaddock or Sanctum Prelate lets you stop their Miracles trigger from Terminus. Using a Mother to protect these guys is great. Ooze can exile stp when they try to Snapcaster it. Using Fauna Shaman at instant speed with vial @ 4 to get Glenn Elendra is a very very good play [and once Glenn hits the graveyard after the second countered spell, you can get Meren, bring back GE and that ought to be lights out..]. Leovold can stop Jace, hopefully you get to vial him in in response to Brainstorm or a Jace activation. When you get the chance and think they may be out of answers, get Saskia or whatever attacker you play to threaten their lifetotal. I guess you need to try to threaten attacks every turn, Vial helps with that.

Some games will be all about finding an answer to their Counterbalance, hopefully Vial helps with that (with it in play you ignore CB, still try to get a Qasali into play). Actually Qasali is pretty good at pressuring them and if they have a cb in play you get to hit them for three until they try to answer it, then you blow up their cb with card advantage. Azcanta needs to be destroyed at first sight, probably..

I like hard counterspells from the sideboard.

I'll add when I think of more things.

@Everyone: not sure if I ever commented on that but I've felt like trying Fulminator Mage for a while. It's nice to be able to interact with lands not least Tabernacle but also Stage or Depths, Grove of the B. With Meren it's a real threat, destroying one nonbasic every turn. I always liked that kind of inevitability. I think the Fulminator Mage is not really aligned with what the deck is normally trying to do but it would feel really good to be able to interact with basically anything. I'm a control player at heart, clearly.

[Kanti]

@Everyone: not sure if I ever commented on that but I've felt like trying Fulminator Mage for a while. It's nice to be able to interact with lands not least Tabernacle but also Stage or Depths, Grove of the B. With Meren it's a real threat, destroying one nonbasic every turn. I always liked that kind of inevitability. I think the Fulminator Mage is not really aligned with what the deck is normally trying to do but it would feel really good to be able to interact with basically anything. I'm a control player at heart, clearly.

Fleshbag Marauder is a pretty sweet lock with Meren. Was testing a split of 1 StP and 1 Edict, then moved onto this dude since I cut Peacekeeper MD (probably wrong). The deck needs a 1-of MD that can deal with Emrakul, Griselbrand, Marit Lage. Peacekeeper, Palace Jailer, Fleshbag Marauder are all pretty decent options.

[pettdan]

I go back and forth on Peacekeeper, it's too defensive for my taste but it is a very powerful effect. Fleshbag Marauder with Meren is pretty good, good point. Will consider it. It's a also a nice sacrifice outlet for Hallowed Spiritkeeper which would be more relevant now with Deathrite gone.

[Cermak]

Fleshbag Marauder is a pretty sweet lock with Meren. Was testing a split of 1 StP and 1 Edict, then moved onto this dude since I cut Peacekeeper MD (probably wrong). The deck needs a 1-of MD that can deal with Emrakul, Griselbrand, Marit Lage. Peacekeeper, Palace Jailer, Fleshbag Marauder are all pretty decent options.

Fleshbag Marauder exeptional descovery, can it sacrefic e it self?

i hade Bone Shredder in my mind before but it realy bad if i compare.

[Cermak]

Great, makes it more Clean for me, thank you Dan for e celest expansion. Tools Will be enough just so I could get the basis ontro. So dansleatswin afasins them. My plan was 2 winter orb and 2 chook.


Great Vickas, there's so much potential for experiments..

Cermak: regarding your question on beating Miracles, it's a matchup where you need to plan for meeting their answers, I think. It's quite an effort writing about it, but I need to be brief here unfortunately. Vials are great because they don't get to counter your spells and by putting creatures into play at EOT you can pressure them and importantly Jace, they won't be able to plan for how to respond to your threats and they can't interact at sorcery speed. Unfortunately Engineered Explosives seems popular now so they have a great md answer, it may be a good idea to save your secon Vial in hand..

Vialling in Gaddock or Sanctum Prelate lets you stop their Miracles trigger from Terminus. Using a Mother to protect these guys is great. Ooze can exile stp when they try to Snapcaster it. Using Fauna Shaman at instant speed with vial @ 4 to get Glenn Elendra is a very very good play [and once Glenn hits the graveyard after the second countered spell, you can get Meren, bring back GE and that ought to be lights out..]. Leovold can stop Jace, hopefully you get to vial him in in response to Brainstorm or a Jace activation. When you get the chance and think they may be out of answers, get Saskia or whatever attacker you play to threaten their lifetotal. I guess you need to try to threaten attacks every turn, Vial helps with that.

Some games will be all about finding an answer to their Counterbalance, hopefully Vial helps with that (with it in play you ignore CB, still try to get a Qasali into play). Actually Qasali is pretty good at pressuring them and if they have a cb in play you get to hit them for three until they try to answer it, then you blow up their cb with card advantage. Azcanta needs to be destroyed at first sight, probably..

I like hard counterspells from the sideboard.

I'll add when I think of more things.

@Everyone: not sure if I ever commented on that but I've felt like trying Fulminator Mage for a while. It's nice to be able to interact with lands not least Tabernacle but also Stage or Depths, Grove of the B. With Meren it's a real threat, destroying one nonbasic every turn. I always liked that kind of inevitability. I think the Fulminator Mage is not really aligned with what the deck is normally trying to do but it would feel really good to be able to interact with basically anything. I'm a control player at heart, clearly.

[Cermak]

Hi most pros, i have a idé back in the days the most powerfull Cards was living death, any one tested it in most? Exept manacost exetremly Suprise for many decks.

[pettdan]

It's a very interesting idea, Cermak! You always have to ask yourself, when evaluating cards, is it worth adding a non-creature spell to the deck? The effect is powerful, so maybe. For it to be good though, you probably need to be able to keep your opponent's graveyard empty. Or if your opponent is pressuring you hard with creatures, their graveyard may be empty, but in this situation it can typically be hard to get to 5 mana. If you want to bring back creatures from your graveyard, you can use Meren. Which you can find with GSZ or Fauna Shaman, and play with Vial. So, you can try it, I'm guessing it will be too inconsistent. But definitely powerful.

I can see it being excellent vs Grixis Control. They destroy everything and probably board out FoW's, so you have a fair chance of resolving it. But if you have traded some creatures with them they may get back Strixes and Snapcasters, which may not be ideal. Vs Miracles, your creatures typically don't end up in the graveyard and they tend to not have many relevant creatures so it's probably useless there. Vs Delver decks, 5 mana can perhaps be hard to get to, especially if playing around Daze.

[Memories of the Time]

Hi most pros, i have a idé back in the days the most powerfull Cards was living death, any one tested it in most? Exept manacost exetremly Suprise for many decks.

Return to the ranks is probably better and could be a Solid sb card

[Memories of the Time]

Another league on MTGO, another 4-1 ruined by my mistakes, same list

T1: S&T 2-1
OTP keep with Mom, gaddock, vendillion and recruiter. Gaddock get fow'd but i took it back with rallier t3. He plays cunning wish for Kozilek, i protect myself with vendillion, gg
g2 pierced (?) a t2 zenith that's basically timewalk, show for omni i put prelate setted at 3, he plays emrakul gg
G3 Strange game, i have many mana but few threats, sadly he has fowed my t1 vial. Anyway EOT on turn 3 i play vendillion after his brainstorm, see 2 show and a cunning i take nothing but then draw a duress, shit, remove cunning. Made my leovold, he play show for omni but nothing else, he finds another cunning for Firemind for... nothing that can save him at 3 life. Play kozilek, leovold kills him next turn

t2: D&T 1-0 Loss for time
g1 take way too much time, sadly for my mistakes and tiredness, classic situation with ton of creatures on board and an unkillable peacekeeper. I won too late, on g2 i make two small mistakes and i can't win for like 10 seconds. My bad, my fault

T3: UBg Shadow 0-2
He wins the coinflip, delver, push seize, reanimate on my leovold push seize, easy gg
g2: Keep and hand with Rallier, Qasali, Leovold, forest, tropical, zenith Fauna OTP What would you do? Keep->Zenith->Arbor for a t2 fauna away from daze.
Obviusly i'll draw only 2 mothers and the other 2 tropical, he start again with delver then push my fauna and wastelands me 3 times on my 3 tropicals, the turn after i draw a BS -> scoop and see the next 3 cards: Mother fetch Quirion
ARGH, usually it's a good MU

t4 Dredge 2-1
Almost won the g1. G2 i have Christmas hand with 3 Macabre land bop scryb fauna, easy gg
G3 He plays 2 silent gravestone, i build my board to have an unkillable peacekeeper, gg

t5 D&T 2-0
Strong manabase (2 land bop quirion) + Mother + Fauna -> Leovold and stuff, gg
g2: More interesting, he has a Revoker (on mom) with Jitte and a Batterskull, i have bop mom fauna Leovold. He choose to not attack with Revoker, i play a Jailer on it next turn and easily gg

Very angry about the game lost for time against D&T, could be another solid 4-1 but the deck keeps feeling really good

[drekonja]

I remember this deck played by Mengucci in one of his veedios about a year ago, felt like some weird take on nice fit decks, I was mostly intrigued by seeing antraxa. The performance was mixed, some people saying M.O.S.T. weird deck ever seen. It definitely has that oldschool vibe to it as it uses many pre modern era cards and some modern legal ones are replacing banned originals. But how does the deck perform vs fast combo as it takes quite a time to set up?

[pettdan]

I remember this deck played by Mengucci in one of his veedios about a year ago, felt like some weird take on nice fit decks, I was mostly intrigued by seeing antraxa. The performance was mixed, some people saying M.O.S.T. weird deck ever seen. It definitely has that oldschool vibe to it as it uses many pre modern era cards and some modern legal ones are replacing banned originals. But how does the deck perform vs fast combo as it takes quite a time to set up?

Hi Drekonja, indeed Mengucci did play a version of MOST. I'd say it was an older style version and not like the one I've been playing for the past couple of years, but the deck can be build in many different ways so that's fine. You'll find a link in the primer. [edit: I didn't even realize, thank you so much for coming here and offering the tip!!] Regarding your question, I suggest you check back on the tournament reports that have been posted and check the comments there. Fast combo usually means sometimes t2 and more often t3 or later, which gives you plenty of time to land a hatebear and we play a multitude of them. There's also Leyline of the Void, Surgical and Faerie Maccabre for t0-t1 interaction with reanimator style decks, and you can play FoW maindeck or in the sb.

@Memories: Always nice to read a report! Good to see you're back on positive results. The aggressive decks can be a struggle, I've been sideboarding a Carpet of Flowers for a while, it's possible there should be a second.. I imagine the card helps vs the Stifle+Delver type of decks.

[Alexeezay]

In case you missed it, someone played 5 Color Birthing Pod at Eternal Weekend Japan.
Unfortunately, there's no decklist to be found. It's kind of similar to MOST.
From watching the youtube video (Round 2 Legacy Event Eternal Weekend Japan), it must be something like this:

3-4 Birthing Pod
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
1 Reanimate
2-4 Swords to Plowshares
1-X Counterspell

4 Baleful Strix
4 Birds of Paradise
2 Snapcaster Mage
1 Glen Elendra Archmage
1 Scrapheap Scrounger
1 Thragtusk
1 Breya, Etherium Shaper
1 Leovold, Emissary of Trest
1 Palace Jailer
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Spellseeker

2 Tundra
2 Savannah
2 Tropical Island
1 Volcanic Island
1 Bayou
1 Underground Sea
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Flooded Strand
X other (Polluted Delta, Verdant Catacombs, Island or Forest probably)


couldn't really see anything else. Probably more 3s or Voice of Resurgence for Pod, Reclamation Sage and targets for Spellseeker, f.e. Surgical Extraction, Abrupt Decay.

[pettdan]

Thanks for sharing it, Alexeeezay! I think it can be used for some inspiration. Like Spelseeker as a one of to find Reanimate, Counterspell, Decay, StP etc. That could be worthwile.. Also will watch that game, I try to build pod too sometimes.

[Memories of the Time]

Another 4-1 on MTGO, could have been a 5-0 but i missclicked :cry: Same list

T1 Miracle 2-0
Land gsz for dryad, land fauna, he topdecks a terminus without cantrip, at some point he has 2 mentor and N token, i play and protect a Peacekeeper, then atraxa+saskia -> sac keeper and gg
G2 Hand with only one land and 2 vial, enough to beat it. Saskia closes again the game

t2 UBx Shadow 2-0
Don't remember anything special, as i said for me it's usually a good MU for us. G1 Closed by peacekeeper + Saskia again

t3 Miracle 1-2
I've almost won after 3 terminus but he also plays Supreme Verdict, so gg
G2 Got an Elspeth fowwed at t4, play vial and Fauna, he plays Jace. But Fauna+Vial is way better =) Again, closed by Saskia
g3 I've managed to have a good board (mom+gaddock+bop+scryb), but i missclicked between 2 and 6 (pass untill end of turn), my oppo catches the opportunity and stp my mom+snap stp on gaddock and gg. My bad

t4 Bug Control 2-1
Another easy mu imho. g1 won by Peacekeeper, g2 lost due to his Hymn+Leovold -> i obviously draw 2 bs and 2 lands and gg, g3 won by Pontiff on Strix+TNn and some beaters + Saskia

t5 Dredge 2-0

g1 Peacekeeper t3, gg
g2 Peacekeeper + faerie macabre when he tries to reanimate Ashen Rider, gg



Cards that are Overperforming: Saskia, Peacekeeper, Atraxa. I invite all of you to try Saskia, even without a Taiga as me =)

[drekonja]

any videos of this deck (besides gucci's year old one)?

[pettdan]

Drekonja, you'll find it in the primer. Nice report, Memories! Maybe time to try Saskia then. I got her at the release but never wanted a "plain" beater. Perhaps it's worth it after all, it can generate absurd damage I imagine..

[Kanti]

I haven't sat down and done a thorough search of Gatherer yet, but I need to do that tomorrow or something and come up with a list of cards that aren't in the primer. I was casually strolling through Wizards in search of something to suggest in the Modern Wizards thread and came across Archivist. 2UU for a 1/1 is a bit steep, but it's a Phyrexian Arena at worst, can get protected by MoM, and draws insane amounts of cards with a Scryb Ranger out. I imagine d3 a turn will settle games very quickly in our favor. I've also had some fun testing Mangara in Modern, and imagine it would be good in Legacy as well. Even something as silly as Pride Sovereign needs consideration when our engine is based around abusing our rangers, be they elves or faeries.

[pettdan]

You're most welcome to do that Kanti! I try to list only cards I believe can be useful. Pride Sovereign and Mangara are both in the primer, I've played Mangara wigh KotR and Karakas and it's good. For Archivist I actually have one in my MOST binder (next to Temporal Adept) but I think the mana cost in combination with how vulnerable it is makes it a poor card in the matchups where you need it,so that's why I didn't list it. If you argue its value or test it with good results I can add it. Edit: oops, you did, will add it then.

Edit: actually, I think Edric, Spymaster of Trest is just better. It can be GSZ-ed for, which is huge, it's a 2/2 for less mana, it usually draws you cards when it comes down and it can draw you many cards per turn. I also like Shaman of the Great Hunt much better for drawing cards (in addition to two other very relevant features in the same card) though being red is too much of a hindrance.

[pettdan]

I went 2-2 in the local weekly event yesterday. Not a terrific day, felt like above average mulligans and lost die rolls [edit: but I'm probably wrong]. Won against MOST 2-0 I think (yes, the mirror match, I got Jitte advantage in g1 and Cermak had some bad topdecks after a Pontiff in g2) and 2-0 vs BUG Threshold (he didn't draw removal or sweepers so it felt a bit too lucky). Then lost vs Punishing Loam, he opened with t1 Mox Diamond and Punishing Fire on my BoP then proceeded to destroy everything I played. In G2 I get a Sword of Light and Shadow into play and it looks like I may start turning the game around by bringing back creatures, opponent goes Scavenging Ooze and then has the better board and graveyard presence and I can't find an answer or a better threat. Also lost vs Elves, a hardcast Craterhoof in g1 and a Natural Order for Craterhoof in g2 for which I had a counter but he had a Archon of Valor's Reach on instants which I could have cleared with my active Jitte but I went for the small key creatures instead which may have been a mistake, not sure, he had a Pendelhaven which meant I was using too many counters.

What I did do though that was new and interesting, except for a few changes to the maindeck and sideboard, was to arrange 5-6 paper cups to hold my cellphone and stream the event. It is very low quality, it is my first attempt at streaming, I misplay a bit more than usual because the camera and interacting with it is taking some of my attention, I'm bad at dividing my attention like that. The camera won't show the whole playing area, we repeatedly fail to show our cards to the camera. So there is a lot to improve. I'd like to figure out how to build a simple arm for placing the camera/cellphone over the playing field but that'll take some time to figure out. You'll find recorded games on my twitch: https://www.twitch.tv/pettdan_. I think the last games are better to watch, Cermak suggested to put another box under the camera to bring it up and that helped with the view. I'll get better streams later!

R1 vs Elves:
http://www.twitch.tv/pettdan_/v/303342388?sr=a&t=2163s
The camera was too close when recording this, thus you can't see our hands or cards drawn even when we try to show them. I make many mistakes, forgetting e.g. Pendelhaven repeatedly which ends up costing me a game..

R2: the MOST mirror
http://www.twitch.tv/pettdan_/v/303365909?sr=a&t=2046s

R3: Punishing Loam
http://www.twitch.tv/pettdan_/v/303365909?sr=a&t=2046s
Never have much chance here. The opponent is fairly new to Legacy.

R4: BUG Threshold
http://www.twitch.tv/pettdan_/v/303407280?sr=a&t=6s
Mistakes include paying 4 for a Sword of L&S then having it pierced with 1 mana up, paying wbuu for Atraxa (with forest available) and removing 3 counters from Jitte when using it 4 times. Well it can only get better from here..

Next time I'll be able to replace the self built paper-cup-camera-holder with a proper device. I'll try to play better too. :)

[pettdan]

I played in the Stockholm legacy league finals today, which is a top 16 event for the best placing players in last spring's tournaments. I decided late the night before to go for MOST, because it's fun and always interesting, and if you have a good idea about which decks you are going to meet you can gear it towards that. Also I usually try to take a fun deck and it would be glorious to win with MOST. I'd been speculating with two other players on what decks people would play and we were reasonably accurate in our guesses. Most players seem to have 2 or more competitive decks to choose from. I was expecting lots of UW kontrol (Teferi, Stoneblade, Miracles, Helm+RiP), Grixis Control, Lands (none appeared) some Storm (none appeared I think) and Omnishow and DnT and an always present Goblins player (leading the league actually, Deathrite was never much of a problem for this guy). I had considered playing UW or WB Bomberman, or a new The Rock list I built.. But went for MOST.

Hmm.. This is not supposed to be a long report, I'll try to speed it up from here (not optimized for entertainment, sorry). :) Still, the few observations on how I tweaked the deck and crucial plays/misplays that I want to present require a few sentences each. Also, I do enjoy re-reading my old reports to enjoy the memory of the games again. That's a great testament to this game, I think..

So, I decided that Sanctum Prelate would be a great card to answer Show and Tell and Cunning Wish from Omnishow/Omnisneak, Loam and PFire from lands (and maybe one Punishing Loam, but he went for DnT instead), Tendrils and Empty from Storm, as well as most removal and cantrips from any control deck [edit: and aggro deck]. It seemed very solid as well as flexible, I didn't even have too many 1 drops in my own list that would punish me. Few cards are good vs both combo, control and aggro decks. Edit: It's only bad vs DnT and Eldrazi; I didn't expect any Eldrazi and I expect the DnT matchup to be great anyway.

And I decided to play 2 Cataclysm in the sideboard, because they sweep all the lands and planeswalkers from the control or midrange decks, they cause trouble by resetting lands from combo decks and my list will work well off 1 Meren in play or 1 Fauna in play (which finds Meren shortly after the Cataclysm), 1 Vial in play, 1 Sylvan or Carpet of Flowers too, and Scryb Ranger can even return loads of lands to your hand before casting the Cataclysm, you basically only need 1 land in play to cast it anyway so that seems absurdly great. I got the idea by watching Bahra's stream where he played Cataclysm with Hallowed Spiritkeeper, another card I've waited a long time to try. Sure, DnT plays Cataclysm too but Bahra's Spicy Popcorn style of deck seems more similar to MOST (value from creatures rather than stax type of hatebears).

Also I played 2 Sylvan Library over Brainstorm no. 3 and 4 to grind better.

And then for some brief comments about the games. I made like 2 bad plays that cost me 2 games. I'll explain what I blame that on further down...

R1: Helm + RiP Miracles (Helm of Obedience + Rest in Peace + Energy Field)
G1: Things start out really ok for me, t1 Mother lives to the next untap phase, I get a Noble Hierarch into play and then GSZ with X=3 getting... Thinking to get Gaddock first, but then I consider that the opponent will then be able to cantrip into an answer, there will be multiple turns and millions of cantrips, and that getting Leovold is probably better because it will shut down jace, removal is already shutdown by Mother + Leo and it would shut off all cantripping too. Just dead to Terminus which he will basically need to topdeck. Anyway, I get Leovold, he untaps and plays Humility and I attack him down to 4 life but he then assembles the combo. Perhaps I should have expected him to have Humility, next time I'll go for Gaddock.
G2: Win with Vial, Carpet, Prelate, Teeg and Glenn Elendra. Seems like I locked the opponent out properly.
G3: Opponent locks game down and plays a big Elspeth (Elspeth, Sun's Champion), I stall as good as I can hoping to find a Cataclysm which I do, so the game is basically reset with me on 4 life and he on 9. Anyway, he gets to keep a token, I had no creatures because I had to use them all to chump his tokens. He still has Humility in play I think, and I probably have land, Vial and Carpet.. but the token beats me down, I guess I failed to draw a creature over 4 turns.
Loss 1-2

R2: BUG Threshold
G1: I use Scavenging Ooze to race 2 Delvers and a Mongoose. Great card.
G2: I get beaten down.
G3: I get an active Mother I think t1 but face double Wasteland and a Stifle. I'm lucky to find lands, GSZ for Dryad and the two Brainstorms to find more lands, get Fauna Shaman then an Ooze which I think wins the game.
Win 2-1

R3: UW Stoneblade
G1: We play a mentally draining but also very fun g1 where I play out half of my deck while trying to keep opponent's Jace and Nahiri, the Lithomancer from ultimating while also keeping his Jitte from getting counters. Nahiri can get the Jitte back from his graveyard at any point but I have a Meren and get Qasali back every turn or so. I slowly manage to build up some advantage although it requires using my resources at 100% every turn [edit: I'm a bit low on mana]: fully tapped out, max Scryb Ranger and Vial activations etc. Once I have enough advantage to use Fauna Shaman to do something creative I consider getting Prelate and playing it naming 4 to stop a potential Supreme Verdict which I expect the opponent to play maybe one maindeck copy of... Since that is the only card that seems like it can affect the outcome of the game. But I decide that he's not likely to draw it soon, I have Leovold so his cantrips are dead too. So I decide to try to use the advantage to establish a stronger board position first and finally get rid of the troublesome planeswalkers. Of course he plays supreme verdict 1-2 turns later. I rebuild quickly with 2 Vials, a Jitte and a Sword of L&S - the latter brings back Meren during my next attack, I vial Meren in and start gaining creatures back starting with Glenn Elendra. So I get to start hammering down planeswalkers while getting 2 creatures back every turn (Meren + Sword). I pull planeswalkers back down to close to being dead, he finds Snapcaster Mage to Supreme Verdict again and I have to start replaying everything again.. Time is called 1-2 turns later, I get an attack in for exactsies during t4, ignoring his planeswalkers - this required GSZ for the second Scryb Ranger to use 2 Mother activations and a Mother attack to make my entire team unblockable and deal the last 9 damage. He Swords his Batterskull token to survive the turn, ultimates Nahiri getting the double strike equipment and luckily I can use Scryb Ranger to untap Mother and block the 10/10 double strike, vigilance lifelinker (Batterskull equiped too). Oh well, much fun was had.
Draw 0-0 (!) Edit: I would likely have won on my turn 6.

Edit: Highlight of the game: judge taking a photo of the board state. ;)
So, at this point I'm at 1-1-1 but with better maneuvering of the games I think I could have been 3-0 (opponent from g1 agreed to this at least).

R4: BUG Control (Team New Zeeland!?)
G1: I get Atraxa into play, maybe some equipment on it, and win the race vs 2 TNN's.
G2: This game, and the next, was caught on stream (not much fun I'm afraid): https://www.twitch.tv/videos/304888317?t=4h06m30s
I draw zero lands and mull to 5, get Toxic Deluged and then I think 2 Hymns. I vaguely recall thinking that a Vial might have given me a chance. So sad to have one of these games on camera.
G3: This game is just full of mistakes, we were both a bit nervous about the coverage so it's good to get used to that, also I'd like to blame the <4 hours of sleep I got and very little MOST practice during the last months (I can't think of a more complicated deck to play actually, but maybe I overvalue it). Anyway, there's very little online coverage here so I'll post the link anyway.

I keep a very tough starting hand with 1 Forest, 1 Carpet of Flowers, 2 Thoughtseize and I think a Mother of Runes and a Keranos. Having mulliganed a lot the previous game makes me reluctant to make new mulligans, also that Carpet can be a reliable source of mana that few cards in the opponent's deck will answer and the Thoughtseizes can both protect the Carpet and my board. Maybe Mother getting active too. Still, I'm hoping to rip a few good cards of the top in this game and... probably should have mulliganed it. Anyway, the Carpet resolves and the t2 Thoughtseize reveals a Brainstorm, a Hymn, Toxic Deluge, Liliana otlh, Maelstrom Pulse and Jace. That's a horrible hand to meet, I conclude that the only way I'm beating that hand is if he doesn't reach three mana at once and I find some cards that can interact with his. So I discard his Brainstorm, hoping to keep him off the third land for a few turns while also making the second Thoughtseize in my hand relevant. It's possible I would have been able to win the game if I got Hymn instead, I might have reached 5 mana maybe 2 turns later and could have hardcasted the Keranos that he now Hymned away on his t2. Anyway, I get a Mother into play and topdeck a Sanctum Prelate that locks down my opponent's dangerous three-drops, he gets his fourth land just before Mother gets active but chooses to fate-seal. Then I attack the opponent's Jace with the Mother in a bad move which I realize a second or two after tapping it. I'll blame that on not sleeping much. Anyway, I get a reasonable board state but the opponent's Jace + Liliana can deal with the board and enable the Toxic Deluge in his hand. No good way out of this. An Engineered Explosives on 1 sweeps all my chances of rebuilding after a potential Deluge, getting 2 Vials and a Carpet. Btw, I thought explosives on 1 was probably better than 3 which the chat and commentators wanted. Oh well, that deck is usually a very tough matchup for me and I had a pretty bad starting hand, and having played it differently I might have gotten Keranos into play and from there who knows.
Loss 1-2

I drop after this.. Anyway, I liked the maindecked Sanctum Prelates and sideboard Cataclysms, I think Cataclysm can be a real gamewinner in many matchups and I may spend some time figuring out which cards work better with it. Like Meren, Sword of Light and Shadow, Glenn Elendra Archmage (and other persist creatures), Hallowed Spiritkeeper etc.

Some topics for discussion: I really like Sanctum Prelate in the current meta, Cataclysm, Carpet of Flowers, I would like to add 2 Bitterblossoms too I think since they are as great as ever and play well with Cataclysm. I like Sword of Light and Shadow a lot now too, not least for having a backup when Meren is lost but also for card advantage, protection, grinding, lifegain, StP-protection, Strix-protection, Liliana-protection, DnT-killer... It seems fantastic. I think we could use Academy Rector too, next I'll consider Arena Rector.

[Kanti]

Phantasmal Image is a card I've been thinking about more and more here. Not only can it copy opposing Baleful Strix, Griselbrand, Emrakul, Marit Lage, Stoneforge Mystic, and more but if you resolve a Glen Elendra Archmage and untap you can probably resolve a Phantasmal Image copying it the following turn and basically hard-lock your opponent.

[pettdan]

I think Phantasmal Image is an interesting card to consider but I've myself decided against it, as of yet.

If it could copy Marit Lage in a meaningful way, it would have been enough to motivate it. However, it cannot, because if the opponent has access to Punishing Fire or Maze of Ith, for example, they will get rid of your indestructible flying 20/20.

Similarly, copying Glen Elendra is great, but you need to have Glen Elendra in play first, and if you do that's what's providing the actual value. The first Glen Elendra is much much better than the second one. Plus, you can easily resurrect your Glen Elendra by getting Meren next, so Phantasmal Image isn't really providing you much extra options or value. Edit: or maybe this extra value actually is a great advantage, it just seemed to me as not.

Copying Stoneforge Mystic is a good use of P.I., especially if you play only a single Jitte and no Stoneforge, because this will let you in effect play a Stoneforge if the opponent does, and not play it if the opponent doesn't. Usually Jitte is pretty good vs decks playing Stoneforge. But not always.

A fourth use for P.I. that I've considered is copying True-Name Nemesis. Since the opponent can't target it, it will in effect be a second TNN. However, you can't untap it. And having one TNN in play will probably be enough. Edit: or maybe this is a second example of an effect that is better than I anticipate.

I think cards like Clever Impersonator are potentially better. It can copy Marit Lage (edit: and not be quite that easily removed), which is huge. It can also copy Jace or Liliana, the Last Hope. I haven't spent that much time considering its usefulness, but I think I would prefer it over Phantasmal Image. Do try P.I. if you feel like it though!


On another topic, a guy recently wanted to buy a foil Fauna Shaman and I found out that he's playing Vickas's list with Volrath's Shapeshifter with some success and much enjoyment. I hope we'll get some input here eventually..

[Memories of the Time]

https://227rsi2stdr53e3wto2skssd7xe-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/Assassins_Trophy_EN.png

That's a great card for us too, i think. Resolve many problems left by AD, first in mind Jace, Tabernacle and Eldrazi. Must have for me, probably 3x

[pettdan]

I agree that it's great to have maindeck answers for those cards. But actually, many other decks will also play these answers, which may reduce the popularity of those threats. I guess we can expect slightly more BUG decks, hard to say if 5% more or 300%, but probably BUG control or midrange gets better and with it there could be an increase in sweepers (a challenge for us). And more md answers to Vial.. I'm thinking Prelate gets better. We'll see.. Really hard to speculate.

[pettdan]

Ochran Assassin - we can use this, just attack with 1-2 exalted triggers and clear their side of the board. But as a 3 mana 1/1 it's probably too inefficient and unreliable and easily answered.

Crackling Drake - this seems awesome, cantripping flying x/4 creature. If only we played more instants and red.

Knight of Autumn - obvious great card, now we really need to consider if we play this over Qasali in the maindeck. I think at least a 1/1 split, if playing Meren.

Card links are going to show up eventually, I'll use the cards tags already.

[Memories of the Time]

I agree that it's great to have maindeck answers for those cards. But actually, many other decks will also play these answers, which may reduce the popularity of those threats. I guess we can expect slightly more BUG decks, hard to say if 5% more or 300%, but probably BUG control or midrange gets better and with it there could be an increase in sweepers (a challenge for us). And more md answers to Vial.. I'm thinking Prelate gets better. We'll see.. Really hard to speculate.

I don't think that the number of Jace or Tabernacle will go down a lot. Maybe (let's hope!) Eldrazi, if Bug finds more way to deal with them thx to Trophy (Eldrazi is probably the deck i feared most in a tournament, compared to how much it's widespread).
Bug control has always been easy for me, yes they have sweepers but also a way slower clock than Mentor Miracle for example, and that's good for us. Really, don't think we should worry too much about that.

@Other cards: the only one worth is obv Knight, a better version of Reclamation. I still want to use Qasali for exalted (too many times it has been perfect for killing jace, too many) and vs SFM->Jitte.

edit: another really interesting card, for me more than others:
http://mythicspoiler.com/grn/cards/lazavthemultifarious.jpg

[pettdan]

Ah yeah, Lazav is a nice little tech creature. Great at copying Dreadnought. Any specific plans for him?

[Memories of the Time]

Ah yeah, Lazav is a nice little tech creature. Great at copying Dreadnought. Any specific plans for him?

Just another way to get access again to 1x died, or in mid late a good way to have a cheap multi-use tool

[pettdan]

It's beautiful to see three MOST players in GP Stockholm's legacy side event. And I'm not even playing.. ;)

[Memories of the Time]

It's beautiful to see three MOST players in GP Stockholm's legacy side event. And I'm not even playing.. ;)

Really =) hope to read some reports!

[Vickas]

I was one of those three playing the Legacy side event! The other guys was Cermak and a guy not from Stockholm (don't know him). We ended up next to each other and it was really fun to hear the guy next to me go: " I play forest, tap, play Aether Vial"

I played two side events and I will try to post report and thoughts about the deck tomorrow if I can remember what happened :P

The results:
UB show and tell 2-1
Deathshadow 1-2
DnT 1-1-1

Sneak and show 2-1
DnT 0-2
Tezzeret Control 1-1-1

Deck list:
1x Atraxa, Praetors' Voice
3x Birds of Paradise
1x Dryad Arbor
1x Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1x Elvish Piper
1x Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4x Fauna Shaman
1x Glen Elendra Archmage
1x Griselbrand
1x Loyal Retainers
1x Meren of Clan Nel Toth
3x Mother of Runes
2x Noble Hierarch
1x Phage the Untouchable
1x Qasali Pridemage
1x Quirion Ranger
1x Sanctum Prelate
1x Scavenging Ooze
1x Scryb Ranger
1x Shalai, Voice of Plenty
1x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3x Volrath's Shapeshifter

1x Bayou
1x Forest
1x Island
1x Plains
2x Savannah
3x Tropical Island
7x Fetch

2x Green Sun's Zenith
4x Aether Vial
2x Abrupt Decay
3x Brainstorm
1x Swords to Plowshares

Side
4x Force of Will
1x Gilded Drake
1x Kambal, Consul of Allocation
1x Pathrazer of Ulamog
1x Peacekeeper
1x Phyrexian Revoker
1x Qasali Pridemage
2x Surgical Extraction
2x Swords to Plowshares
1x Vampire Hexmage

[pettdan]

Cermak provided this summary of his events at the GP going 7-2 with a list that is very close to DnT:

GP Sthlm side event 7-2

-win DnT; Fauna shaman, shalai
-win Stoneblade; mother, vial, choke
-lost Grixis Control; my missplay, lost hope

-win Deaths shadow; thalia, choke
-win Helm; thalia, gaddock
-win Storm; qasali pridemage (edit: hmm actually I think Sanctum Prelate was referred to here, probably my misunderstanding)

-win ug cloudpost; wasteland
-win Burn; jitte
-lost to shardless

Here is his super spicy list:

4 Aether Vial
1 Bayou
1 Cataclysm
1 Choke
1 Dryad Arbor
2 Fauna Shaman
2 Flickerwisp
1 Flooded Strand
1 Forest
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Gaea's Cradle
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Karakas
1 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Meren of Clan Nel Toth
4 Mother of Runes
2 Noble Hierarch
1 Orzhov Pontiff
1 Palace Jailer
1 Plains
1 Reclamation Sage
2 Recruiter of the Guard
1 Sanctum Prelate
3 Savannah
1 Scrubland
1 Scryb Ranger
1 Shalai, Voice of Plenty
3 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
3 Swords to Plowshares
2 Sylvan Library
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Umezawa's Jitte
4 Wasteland
4 Windswept Heath

[Cermak]

BOOM 4-0 to night winning all.

2-0 Merfolk, fauna shaman
2-0 Stoneblade+delver, Choke + talia
2-0 blackout.
2-1 Goblins, vial

Spoiler (https://deckstats.net/deck-17068307-a07bcfcba759cbed497675a0d5d76ee8.html)

Lands (19)
1 Bayou
1 Flooded Strand
1 Forest
1 Gaea's Cradle
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Karakas
1 Plains
3 Savannah
1 Scrubland
4 Wasteland
4 Windswept Heath

Spells (12)
4 Aether Vial
1 Batterskull
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
3 Swords to Plowshares
2 Sylvan Library
1 Umezawa's Jitte

Creatures (29)
1 Dryad Arbor
2 Fauna Shaman
2 Flickerwisp
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Meren of Clan Nel Toth
1 Mirran Crusader
4 Mother of Runes
2 Noble Hierarch
1 Orzhov Pontiff
1 Palace Jailer
1 Reclamation Sage
2 Recruiter of the Guard
1 Sanctum Prelate
1 Scryb Ranger
1 Shalai, Voice of Plenty
3 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben

[Demonic Pact]

Haven't posted here for way too long...mainly due to having exams.

Sadly didn't make it to Stockholm. I did play at MKM Paris, was 6-1 but lost the last 2 rounds unfortunately. Don't remember all the details, I think I beat a pair of Grixis Control players, UB Show and Tell, Lands, DnT, BUG, ... and the losses were DnT, Grixis Control and ANT.
Vs. DnT it was 1-1 with 9min on the clock. Was 4-0 so really wanted to win and played too quickly and made mistakes, game could have been won.
Vs. Grixis Control I won the only game we both played magic, the other 2 I kept 2 lands and had one of the Hymn to Tourached causing me to miss my 2nd land drop for 5+ turns in both games.
Vs. Storm I lost the die roll and got killed before able to interact in two games, winning the one where I survived to my 2nd turn and dropped Teeg....
Same list as usual: http://decks.deckedbuilder.com/d/2018-07-15/jgnBxN0ij0G9y0nMiknS1Q==

Regarding the new cards, Knight of Autumn is great and will definitely be my MD Artifact/Enchantment hate of choice, not sure if I'll play a 2nd in the board or run a Qasali there.
Assassin's Trophy is also great, mainly because it hits lands. Most likely a straight swap from Abrupt Decay to it.

I'm still convinced all the Loyal Retainers etc. "combo" lines aren't worth it, you need 2 Fauna Shaman activations and you really shouldn't lose after activating Shaman twice anyway.

[Memories of the Time]

Good to hear you again Demonic! Great result at the mkm, i totally understand your last games... i've seen the same things many times, and there are times where we simply can't win, happens

Next weekend i'll have a big tournament here in Italy, so i'll bring Most after the good MTGO results. The Loyal/Iona slots are the only one that i'm unsure about, to be clear, and the games played online didn't really help me with this decision. Sometimes you have an active fauna and you can close the game pretty easily simply doing this simple trick, sometimes it's stuck in your hand, sometimes i just want to try more flexible slots (probably would move Second Leovold and Pontiff MD).

[Kanti]

Is Thief of Sanity any good or is it just another Hypnotic Specter? Probably worse than Specter against a lot of decks but I can't help but feel it might be a good card for us. Plaguecrafter also seems amazing. Nabs all those nasty combo decks that cheat creatures into play, has game against Delver, and can nab a Jace against Miracles.

[pettdan]

Tajic, Legion's Edge is also an interesting card. Hmm, I read it again now, it just grants protection to other creatures so probably not worth it after all...

Great to hear things are going relatively well for you, Demonic_Pact! Thanks for sharing! I think combo elements haven't been the best option for a long time, but that shouldn't stop us from testing them. Having an unfair element can be a great advantage, but it is more difficult (and, probably, worse) than just building a regular version.

Kanti, I think Thief of Sanity is very interesting, it's a slight upgrade of previous similar cards - and I would love to play them - by giving selection between 3 cards and allowing you to play it even after the thief leaves play. I still think it probably is too weak, however Yurio (will add cardtag) was recently released and I think she may be good enough, perhaps, but probably requires building on.

[Memories of the Time]

Report from yesterday, 125 people
Same list, different side bc, you know, mtgo meta: https://deckstats.net/deck-17173287-f656f2d70ad2a680bb2eb58ff12a92c4.html
Couldn't find a Saskia in the location so i've played at 60 cards

T1 Grixis Control 2-0
Can't remember much from these games, i know that he won the coin and go with sea-preordain, fetch go so i'll think about Show -> Prelate at 3
Good move anyway, i've won one game thx to Griselbrand and another one with Atraxa

T2 Omnitell 1-1
I won the g1 because he didn't close the game in the first 2 turns, i was otp, a well-positioned queller closed the game
g2 I've almost won, i can't remember if i've made a mistake or it was just incredible luck for my oppo, anyway i've played vendilion eot and i had lethal damages on table, put in the bottom a Wish-> topdeck Kozilek returns with the card of Vendilion at the last moment. Incredible

T3 UW Miracles Rip 0-2
Lost g1 with an activa Fauna after have drawn land-land-vial-land on a row.
g2 i start with land vial land vial but he had Containment priest on t2 without cantrip, then humility.

t4 Maverick 2-0
No games here, it's one of our best mu, never felt in danger

t5 Lands 2-1
I lost the g1 after 30 minutes of war and calculations and turns under Tabernacle, can't wait to have Trophy here <3 But i manage to close g2 and g3 in few turns with hatebears (mvp Prelate obvs) and beatdown

t6 Canadian 2-0
g1 I've too many mana sources for his denial -> Atraxa
g2 I have and hand with 3 land 3 vial and a bop. Keep and won many turns after easily

t7 Mario Garbuio with Grixis Control 0-2
List here: http://www.ovinotournament.com/ovino-13-legacy-main-event/
I refuse the split to try to gain the glory with Most, and obvs life punished me hard. He totally wrecked me having only perfect tourach and draws, i really wasn't able to do anything relevant. 4 K. Command in g1, 3 on g2 , just for saying one thing. Lovely


General Thoughts and considerations after the tournament (and in general).

1)I've talked and brainstormed with my teammates about the deck, and what i clearly feel is that we are too light on Business/Gas cards. Rallier is the only card that makes a direct advantage and i strongly believe that it's too few, and we can clearly see this against Miracle, Grixis control ecc. Moreover, i don't think it's something we can fix with just one card.

2)Vial has been clearly good or really, really bad. I've lost 3 games drawing a mix of lands and vials in a row with an active Fauna, and i fear that's too much variance for my playstyle. So after more than one year i'll come back to test the deck without them.

3)Revoker has too few targets now for a MD position

4)Solution to point 1-2: 3 slots for a consistent plan that doesn't require Fauna
-Voice of Resurgence: Really really good against Grixis, not so good against Miracle but a flexible card usefull against Tempo ecc. "Safest" choice
-Nemesi: I mean, like, 3 of them. I'm not a fan of the 1x, because i've never tutored for her when i was testing and never felt the lack afterwards. But 3 of them is a different matter: very good against Eldrazi and Grixis (our worst MUs i think?), good against Miracle
-2/3 SfM+jitte+Sofi: Another good option, but obvs sucks against Grixis and K.Command, so it's a no for me.
-3 Nissa, Steward of Elements: When i tested her i was surprised by how versatile she was, and when it hits 3-4 Loyal counters he makes +1 permanent at turn.

To begin, i'll start with these changes in my next MTGO leagues:
-4 Vial
-1 Revoker

+1 Nh
+3 Nemesi
+1 Lazav/Nissa/Voice/Play at 60 cards

[pettdan]

Sweet report, thanks! I agree that we need to plan on how to beat Grixis Control. I keep looking at options but not testing much. 3 TNN is an interesting option.. I have mentioned Aluren before, it is difficult to build the deck around it but possible - it combines card advantage creatures with a combo win.. but much tougher to build. There's also Cermak's approach which is worth testing, Choke is a good card, and other interesting choices..

[Memories of the Time]

The point is that you don't want just 2-3 Aluren and some cards good with it, for me, you want to build an entire deck around it imho.

@Choke: Obvs it's very good in sb, but i think that PW are better and more flexible cards overall

[Kanti]

Thanks for the report Memories. Bad breaks against Grixis, K Command is really a brutal card. Forgot to say thanks to pettdan too for posting his last report with videos. Was painful watching you attack with that MoM against Grixis when you had Prelate at 3 up. I didn't even think you stood a chance that game, then things shifted all of a sudden, and then the MoM misplay. Happens brother.

I've been playing this deck a whole bunch in Modern and have way more beef in it. 3 Tarmogoyfs, 3 Siege Rhino, 1 Bitterblossom in the main-deck more beef. It's due to not having MoM available, and not having GSZ or Brainstorm. I'm on 4 Vials, 4 Birds, 3 Hierachs. Legacy's card pool offers a whole other headache though. MoM is too good not to include, as she protects Fauna Shaman and allows us to lock some decks out g1 via Peacekeeper+MoM (Death's Shadow and Grixis, and a plethora of other decks have no out to this besides double removal which you can get around with Scryb Ranger). Still, I miss the beef I have in Modern. Chain Rhinos are no joke, and I really got the idea from the old Survival decks that ran x4 Goyf to just chain Goyfs. Running a deck full of silver bullets is nice, but you risk drawing the wrong bullet for the wrong match. There's a balance out there somewhere for sure. Good that you mention Ralliers CA. I run both Rallier and E Witness and search for them a lot more than I though I would. CA is no joke.

Not sure I like cutting Vial. They are terrible topdecks, but Fauna+Vial out is ridiculous, and it doesn't get wiped off the field by a Terminus. Until Abrade gets more popular (it should be already) I will keep Vials in.

[JackaBo]

If i understand correctly Cermaks build, which he is very successful with currently, is like that. Not much toolbox but a bunch of good stuff ”beef”. In a way it looks more like maverick but not constrained by that archetypes do’s and donts


Skickat från min iPhone med Tapatalk

[pettdan]

Actually I think it's more like MOST merged with DnT, like I've written. It does not have much beef I think but Thalia, StP and Wastelands. And a single KotR. But maybe he's updated it since then. Or well, I guess there is an argument to be made regarding Maverick as well, it's not farfetched as these decks overlap.

Actually anyone interested can watch Cermak playing the first games from his playtesting stream from last Thursday:

http://www.twitch.tv/stockholmlegacy/v/314622037?sr=a&t=6s

[Demonic Pact]

Alright, I'm gonna try and keep some structure in this post, otherwise it'll probably be a single very long paragraph of my ramblings that don't help anyone ^^ As always, just opinions. I'm not always right but I do like to think I have enough experience with the deck to be right the majority of the time ;)

Vial:
Based on 1000s of games with the deck I'm convinced that cutting the vials is wrong.

But if you think I'm wrong and do want to cut the vials, surely you will run too low on mana sources if you try and squash something like 3 TNN and a Nissa into the deck instead? The deck usually runs 16 lands and 5 dorks plus 3-4 GSZ for Arbor and is very mana hungry...without Vials it'll look mostly like a Maverick list with too many colors and some odd card choices...but those decks tend to run the same amount of dorks and GSZ we do but play around 24 lands (20 without Wasteland) and often don't curve out beyond 3...so imo if you cut the Vials you have to add 2-3 mana sources which aren't better topdecks (assuming at least one of them is a land, exception being when you draw a dork with Fauna in play).
Further more, you've probably all experienced hands without T1 plays in the deck - it's like Humans in Modern, it feels really bad, it's just worse in Legacy as a single Wasteland or Daze will also prevent your T2 play and perhaps you don't even have the land to get back up to 2 mana and you just lose. Removing your best 4 turn 1 plays will just make this happen a lot more often. In some games in Legacy, not playing on T0 is a problem and you just die. Not playing on T1 either is just way too slow for the format.

Voice:
Played it quite a long time ago, for a while actually. Felt decent, not amazing but never really bad either. But eventually made way due to deckspace constraints. Couldn't imagine ever tutoring for it. I know you're considering it to make your gameplan better when you don't have Fauna...I just didn't think it was powerful enough at doing that. But meta changes all the time so maybe it's better now...

Revoker:
I can see cutting this. Probably will try it. With DRS gone it might really be too low on targets.

Nemesis:
Can see plenty of situations where I want to and often have tutored for it...block a big thing, fog equipment like Jitte or Batterskull, kill Planeswalkers, race, avoid Maze of Ith, etc...also incredible with Scryb Ranger as it'll do double duty on attack and block - which is like having 2 TNNs and that's always busted...

Consistency and Toolboxness:
If you want a more consistent deck and less toolboxy deck, just play Maverick or D&T...you lose so much Fauna Shaman power once you start trimming the toolbox down. The right way to adress the toolbox and consistency problems imo is to run Brainstorm and be very careful in what you actually put in your deck ;)
Sure, you'll gain percentages elsewhere by playing something like 4x Thalia and I'm definitely not saying this deck is better. I'm pretty sure I'd win more playing D&T instead, but this is just way more fun.
Imo a shell with Wasteland+Thalia+SfM package is a different deck. Cermak's build is a modified D&T list rather than a version of MOST. Figuring out whether it's better or worse than "regular" D&T or D&T with a couple of extra silver bullets to Recruiter of the Guard for is something for a different thread.

Silver Bullets?
The silver bullets in the wrong matchups thing is important. You obviously have to consider this when building the deck, how bad is this card in the wrong matchup? And find ways to make use of those silver bullets when you draw them in the "wrong" matchup...I'm trying to figure out off the top of my head what the most narrow cards in my MD are and it's probably Gaddock Teeg or Phyrexian Revoker (next up are Qasali Pridemage, Meddling Mage and Orzhov Pontiff)...
Revoker might be too narrow and I am considering cutting it.
Teeg has matchups where it blanks and is just a 2/2 for 2. But very often it does something at least (like turn off your own GSZs, that's kinda bad)...It's very important in some matchups and even in the others usually turns of something from their deck...tutored for quite a lot but the floor is very low.
Pridemage is still quite versatile and hits a lot of things in a lot of matchups. Plus it's super important in some matchups and often tutored for. Worst case it's a 2/2 Exalted for 2 which isn't that bad.
Meddling Mage is an interesting one. Imo if you have a good understanding of all the other legacy decks and an especially good comprehension of gamestates you will always find value in this card. It doesn't have to turn off anything they have, it has to turn off the thing you lose to. That said, I still board it out a decent amount of times but wouldn't say it's too narrow by any means.
Orzhov Pontiff is so good some of my (very skilled) D&T friends starting splashing black for it in their decks. Has matchups where it blanks and the floor is super low but the ceiling is sooooo high. Definitely very high difference between floor and ceiling on this card but wouldn't consider it narrow as it's good in so many matchups.

Combo creatures:
Volrath Shapeshifter, Loyal Retainers, Arcane Artisan, I've even seen Elvish Piper...
So when are these good? When you untap with Fauna Shaman, pass, activate it, untap and activate it again. Now you have an Iona/Griselbrand/Emrakul/Elesh Norn.
So for this to be worth doing, you have to be in a game where you survive to turn 4, have drawn a Fauna Shaman, have it not die for 2 turns, and it to be a game where you wouldn't have won with 2 Fauna Shaman activations if you didn't have this combo in the deck.
So your opponent isn't playing combo, wasn't able to kill your 2/2 for 2 turns and is playing a deck where you wouldn't have won after 2 Fauna Shaman activations. That's a very, very narrow definition of a matchup. On the downside, you have these dead draws in your deck now and have less slots for your toolbox. I really don't see it.

Other stuff:
Try Shalai, it's really good. It's also really good against Grixis :)
Tajic might be fine, but nothing I'd consider adding red for.
Eternal Witness feels too clunky whenever I don't have a Vial in play to use with it. Rallier is fine for CA because you don't lose tempo...I believe Meren is fine too because it dodges a lot of removal, its body is a lot more relevant and it's just so much card advantage...plus can turn into tempo also if a lot of your stuff dies...
MD Jailer is a thing I want to try as well. But I'm scared of overloading the 4drop slot and Atraxa and Shalai are both amazing...

[pettdan]

I think most of us run Shalai, I do since its release at least. I almost never run Revoker, too vulnerable (this is just my feeling). I prefer Sanctum Prelate over Meddling Mage, higher impact and potential gamewinner in several matchups. I guess dropping Gaddock, or moving him to the board, can be considered if the decks he's needed for are not played much, but in general he is too good not to play, I think.

[Memories of the Time]

@vial: now i m testing with Just +1Nh, but i was thinking about Canopy as 17th Land if i'll be too short on mana.
And yes, they are both waaaay better topdecks. As said i m losing a ridicoulus ammount of game for drawing vial or lands with an Active Fauna, because you don't have always the opportunity of keeping a creature in hand.
There are one game on thousands where you don't mull a hand without t1 play, and we are anyway playing 14 drop1

@consistency: 100% agree

@combo creature:right reasoning, but imho not correct conclusions. First of all, with a Ranger effect you can do it in one turn.
Second, you are missing something: you 'only' need a living fauna for one turn, then you stay open and see if the oppo does something powerful (so, tutor for queller), otherwise you win the game almost on spot. And there are plenty of decks where a single fauna Activation doesn't seal the game, Grixis Miracle and Eldrazi Just to say the first 3, or lands/aggro loam/midrange ecc.
Against combo is obvs even better if you're playing Iona (now i m playing griselbrand)

I had very high hopes about Shalai and i ve been disappointed very much by her. Against control if you can protect a cc4 you are already winning (and i mean, protect more impactful cards that put preassure on your opponent to prevent him to find the deluge, for example). Only mu i miss her is eldrazi/walking balista deck.

[Vickas]

Thoughts about "Combo" In MOST...

I have seen some of you write about this and think it looks bad and not worth it, and you are right.

The deck I tried involved:
Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
Elvish Piper
Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
Griselbrand
Phage the Untouchable
Loyal Retainers
Volrath's Shapeshifter

The problem is that you need too many Fauna activations to make it work if you don't have one or more pieces in hand. And you need a few turns and Fauna activations to protect the Combo with MoR, Prelate or Thalia.
Sure it is nice to have Elesh in hand, activate fauna, discard Elesh, find and Vial in Volrath's Shapeshifter, thats a nice Sweeper.
Or have Volrath's Shapeshifter on the battlefield and put Griselbrand in the graveyard to block with and draw some cards.
Phage + Volrath's Shapeshifter have saved some games and Elesh + Volrath's Shapeshifter is really nice but a regular MOST deck can do things better i think.

I really like Volrath's Shapeshifter and thinks it's a underrated card but I'm not sure if it is a card for MOST.
But I really want it to work so please keep trying!

Loyal Retainers may be a keeper to get Shalai or Atraxa back or even bigger such as Griselbrand, Iona or even Emrakul.
Iona and Elesh are the best for this, because they interact most with the game, Griselbrand and Emrakul are just for showing off but they don't do much at first.

Next thing for me to try is Necrotic Ooze. Maybe something like 1-2 Necrotic Ooze and 1 Volrath's Shapeshifter and still
have Elesh Norn, Phage, Loyal Retainers, Griselbrand and maybe add Minion of Leshrac... Strangest deck wins!

[Memories of the Time]

For me, having thought and tested about it for many weeks, loyal+griselbrand is by far the best option. Strong, instant, cheap and flexible (i've won games reanimating leovold or teeg or Atraxa), other options are Just worse i fear

[Vickas]

I hate to be wrong and the plan was to try MOST for a last time, but after going 3-1 last night made me want to try it more. Volrath's Shapeshifter really saved the day!
A have trouble remember everything but here is a small report.

MOST mirror (Cermak)! 0-2
Game 1: Cermak set up Scavenging Ooze and Jitte quite fast. That's a problem. Did not have lands and he shot my mana dorks with jitte.
Game 2: I had a chance but did lot of missplay (pettdan watching made me nervous haha) biggest problem was Karakas and Shalai, Voice of Plenty.
I tried to set up Necrotic Ooze and Minion of Leshrac but missplayed, and didn't realise that i had the right components, But played something else...

Enchantress 2-1
When I saw he played Enchantress I felt a bit confident because I know he need a few turns to set up a real threat and I can adapt and win faster.
G1: Won with Shapeshifter + Phage easy because my opponent didn't know what was happening
G2: Lost due to bad keep, had like 2 Qasali Pridemage, 2 Lands, 1 Mother of Runes and Volrath's Shapeshifter but could not draw in to something useful.
G3: Kept hand with Fauna Shaman, Shapeshifter, Birds of Paradise and some lands and just focused on a Shapeshifter + Phage the Untouchable win with his only threat was Elephant Grass..

Elves 2-0
G1: Kept hand with Aether Vial, 3 Land, Scryb Ranger, 1 Noble Hierarch, 1 Bop. I knew he play Elves so this hand was a gamble but first card i draw was Elesh Norn so hardcasting turn 4 was no problem.
G2: Kept almost same hand but with Fauna and Griselbrand. search for Elesh and Loyal Retainers after a few turns and he scooped. But he was really unlucky drawing like 5 lands in a row.

Grixis Delver 2-0
G1: This was hard. He had Delver and Angler really fast but I manage to get Shapeshifter on the battlefield and Elesh in graveyard and vial in Atraxa to block Angler and get some life.
Then resolved Shalai and start hitting back.
G2: This was harder. Keept hand with 3 Lands, Shalai, Vial, noble, brainstorm and he play T1 Thoughtseize and take Shalai wich I was really happy about.
It was a long game back and forth. But Vial in Sanctum Prelate to stop Bolt, Loyal Retainers to get back Shalai from graveyard and Peacekeeper for not getting beaten to death by TNN and Angler
then pass the turn until I drew a basic land (he had wasteland), then use Fauna to find Griselbrand, sacrifice Peacekeeper in upkeep, use Fauna to put Griselbrand in graveyard and find Phage,
attack with Shapeshifter(griselbrand), no blocks, put Phage in graveyard. win! I had 1 life he was on 18...

I will not change much to the list. Just add Gaddock to sideboard and take out Vryn I think.

Creature (34)
3x Birds of Paradise
1x Dryad Arbor
1x Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
4x Fauna Shaman
1x Glen Elendra Archmage
2x Griselbrand
1x Loyal Retainers
1x Minion of Leshrac
4x Mother of Runes
2x Necrotic Ooze
2x Noble Hierarch
1x Phage the Untouchable
2x Qasali Pridemage
2x Quirion Ranger
1x Sanctum Prelate
1x Scavenging Ooze
1x Scryb Ranger
1x Shalai, Voice of Plenty
1x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2x Volrath's Shapeshifter

Land 16

4x Aether Vial
4x Brainstorm
2x Green Sun's Zenith

Sideboard
2x Abrupt Decay
1x Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4x Force of Will
1x Gilded Drake
1x Iona, Shield of Emeria
1x Kambal, Consul of Allocation
1x Mindbreak Trap
2x Surgical Extraction
1x Vampire Hexmage
1x Vryn Wingmare

[pettdan]

Very entertaining report! I'll have to add Minion of Leshrac to the primer, such a great card! Well, maybe more fun than good, but still.. With Necrotic Ooze it's a party!

[Cermak]

Hi Most Lovers:
So glad that I found this archetype big up to @petdan it really made mad try to make a version of the deck that would fit my play style. Now I played it quite some time I would like to share some breakdown.
the 3 colors tools out grinds, blue, killed storm, and east DT for breakfast, plays very strong against control piles.
Key cards is the vials and the fast mana dorks, whit a 11 1xdrops, dryad+vial, vial x 4, 2 Nobel h., 4 mother. Your guaranteed to get some pressure on turn one.
And opponent need to protect them self fast to not get killed by the next wave. thalia, Sfm, FS, teeg, sylvan.
When you hit the 3 mana it is often over, Sanctum prelate, recruiter + vial, flicker wisp, night of reliquary, choke.
Last report I have played quite a bit whit great result in:
So far hardest match ups is by far: Steel stompy + Eldrazi (faster then this deck plus mother does nothing) Goblins and Elves also hard but can be handled can be well handled after side board. Love to meet Blue decks has hard time handling the Choke, wasteland, Vial, Thalia adios amigo. Since my meta is 75% make this version very strong it has a win ratio 75,85%+ in 9+ tournament with 25+ players many of which is very skilled analyzing in there way to play, playing heavy amount of legacy weekly.

Action: pics (goo.gl/Tn5axk)
The deck: here (https://deckstats.net/deck-17631645-0f9b78180e28b760fde9089cedf92fcc.html)

20 LANDS
1 Bayou
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Flooded Strand
1 Forest
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Karakas
1 Marsh Flats
1 Plains
3 Savannah
1 Scrubland
4 Wasteland
4 Windswept Heath
30 CREATURES
2 Fauna Shaman
2 Flickerwisp
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Knight of Autumn
1 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Meren of Clan Nel Toth
1 Mirran Crusader
4 Mother of Runes
2 Noble Hierarch
1 Orzhov Pontiff
1 Palace Jailer
2 Recruiter of the Guard
1 Renegade Rallier
2 Sanctum Prelate
1 Scryb Ranger
1 Shalai, Voice of Plenty
3 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 INSTANTS and SORC.
3 Swords to Plowshares
7 OTHER SPELLS
4 Aether Vial
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Sylvan Library
1 Umezawa's Jitte



12pts
3-color toolbox — Goblin , Sandro Result: 2-1
3-color toolbox — Delver,Blade Result: 2-0
3-color toolbox — Miracles, Jonas Result: 2-0
3-color toolbox — Grixis controll, Result: 2-1

12pts
3-color toolbox —storm, Result: 2-1
3-color toolbox —czech pile, Result: 2-1
3-color toolbox —br animator, Result: 2-1
3-color toolbox —Food chain, Result: 2-1


7 pts
3-color toolbox — miracles, Result: 2-0
3-color toolbox — blue lands, Result: 1-1-1
3-color toolbox — ur burn, Result: 2-0
3-color toolbox — miracles, black Result: 0-2
9 pts
3-color toolbox —br animator, Result: 1-2
3-color toolbox —stax, Result: 2-0
3-color toolbox — lands, Result: 2-0
3-color toolbox — miracles, Result: 2-1
9 pts
3-color toolbox — Aluren, Christofer Result: 2-1
3-color toolbox — lands blue, Hannes Result: 0-2
3-color toolbox — GRixis control, Result: 2-0
3-color toolbox — grixis delver, Alexander Result: 2-1
3 pts
3-color toolbox — Bloodmoon control, lawancer, Christopher Result: 1-2
3-color toolbox — GRixis, Viktor Result: 1-2
3-color toolbox — BU animator, Jay Result: 2-0
3-color toolbox — Goblins, Sandro Result: 0-2
9 pts
3-color toolbox – Enchanment, Guillem Result: 2-0
3-color toolbox — Steel stompy, Andre Result: 0-2
3-color toolbox — grixis, Patricia Result: 2-1
3-color toolbox — uw blade, Måns Result: 1-0-1


12 pts
3-color toolbox — UW delver blade daze, Ariel Result: 2-1
3-color toolbox — Aluren, Christofer Result: 2-0
3-color toolbox — Goblins, Svea Result: 2-0
3-color toolbox — Most, Victor Result: 2-0
9 pts
3-color toolbox — BGW control,Teodor Result: 0-2
3-color toolbox — Balde UW, Lukas Result: 2-0
3-color toolbox — Miracles, Result: 2-1
3-color toolbox — BuG, Carl Result: 2-1

[Memories of the Time]

Interesting take Cermak, way more Maverick-ish but i like it in this meta.
Some notes/questions:

-I'd have trophy over stp, strongly.
-With this configuration, for me, Fauna loses much of her power. I'll go for a 3/1 split with recruiter, or just 4/0 maybe
-Very sadly we can't recruit for Ramunap, would be awesome
-Probably would love some Hallowed Spiritkeeper between main and side
-Your Sideboard?

[pettdan]

Cermak on stream, looking good:
http://www.twitch.tv/stockholmmagic

Edit: gah, didn't look so good in the next two games.

Edit: Cermak on screen again, this time vs UB Omnishow.

[JackaBo]

Cermak on stream, looking good:
http://www.twitch.tv/stockholmmagic

Edit: gah, didn't look so good in the next two games.

Edit: Cermak on screen again, this time vs UB Omnishow.

Someone called it ’Vial maverick’ in chat. Felt accurate.

[pettdan]

How you define it is perhaps not so important, but it's closer to DnT than Maverick I think (but that's pretty close anyway, it has elements from both). Regardless, it uses a stronger tutor package (this can be discussed, but different at least) and more varied creature package.

[from Cairo]

@Cermak: do you have a sideboard posted anywhere to accompany your 60? Your build looks good and it seems to be preforming well for you. Props!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Vickas]

So I went 3-1 last night at weekly legacy event.
2-1 vs punishing loam, 2-1 vs Goblins, 1-2 vs Infect, 2-1 vs zombiebombardment.

watch me make some misstakes and lose to infect here: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/341855668 at about 2.40.00

You all know the basics of the deck so I'm just gonna talk about the spicy bits.

Nissa, Steward of Elements- She takes up the Silvan Library spot in the deck and I'm not gonna argue that she is better than Library but she is good!
Keeping her at 4 loyalty you can cheat in most of the creatures in the deck even on the blind. And with brainstorm and Fauna you cheat in like every creature.
Scrying is nice when you have bad cards or no cards in hand but i would put her at 4 try to get creatures on the battlefield. Never tried her -6 but it can work
like a nice finisher.

Eldritch Evolution- Really like this card from the begining and it works! I had one scenario against Goblins where I cast Knight of autumn and destroys a Vial and
the turn after cast Evolution sacrifice Knight to find Keranos, that was a Win! I also sacrificed Dryad arbor to find Fauna and Pridemage to find Shalai(different games).
So I feel like I got value out of Evolution but one is enough I think.

Creature (30)
1x Atraxa, Praetors' Voice
3x Birds of Paradise
1x Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
4x Fauna Shaman
1x Glen Elendra Archmage
1x Knight of Autumn
1x Loyal Retainers
1x Meren of Clan Nel Toth
3x Mother of Runes
2x Noble Hierarch
1x Peacekeeper
1x Phage the Untouchable
1x Qasali Pridemage
2x Quirion Ranger
2x Sanctum Prelate
1x Scavenging Ooze
1x Scryb Ranger
1x Shalai, Voice of Plenty
1x Volrath's Shapeshifter
1x Dryad Arbor

Land (16)

Spells (14)
2x Abrupt Decay
3x Brainstorm
4x Aether Vial
1x Eldritch Evolution
3x Green Sun's Zenith
1x Nissa, Steward of Elements

Sideboard (15)
1x Flusterstorm
1x Mindbreak trap
2x Thoughtseize
1x Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1x Gaddock Teeg
1x Gilded Drake
1x Iona, Shield of Emeria
1x Kambal, Consul of Allocation
1x Keranos, God of Storms
1x Qasali Pridemage
2x Surgical Extraction
1x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1x Vampire Hexmage

[pettdan]

Great news, someone 5-0'd with a list on MTGO, I hope we can get some comments here.. Edit: well the list is close to Demonic_Pact's but still it's always interesting to hear.

https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/mtgo-standings/competitive-legacy-constructed-league-2018-12-15

Creature (30)
1 Atraxa, Praetors' Voice
3 Birds of Paradise
4 Fauna Shaman
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Leovold, Emissary of Trest
1 Meddling Mage
1 Merieke Ri Berit
3 Mother of Runes
3 Noble Hierarch
1 Orzhov Pontiff
1 Palace Jailer
1 Peacekeeper
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Quirion Ranger
1 Renegade Rallier
1 Sanctum Prelate
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Scryb Ranger
1 Shalai, Voice of Plenty
1 Spell Queller
1 True-Name Nemesis
Sorcery (3)
3 Green Sun's Zenith
Instant (5)
2 Assassin's Trophy
3 Brainstorm
Artifact (4)
4 Aether Vial
Enchantment (2)
2 Sylvan Library
Land (16)
1 Bayou
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Forest
4 Misty Rainforest
2 Savannah
2 Tropical Island
1 Tundra
4 Windswept Heath
60 Cards

Sideboard (15)
2 Meddling Mage
2 Sanctum Prelate
1 Containment Priest
1 Ethersworn Canonist
3 Faerie Macabre
1 Gilded Drake
1 Glen Elendra Archmage
1 Knight of Autumn
1 Meren of Clan Nel Toth
1 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Umezawa's Jitte

[TSmiley]

My podcast got to talk with Rodney about his recent 5-0 with the list here:

https://soundcloud.com/the-dead-format/episode-25-most-with-rodney-bedell

check it out if you want to!

[pettdan]

That's great, thanks for posting! Will listen to this on my trainride home for Christmas.

[FutureSight2_MTGBoogaloo]

Hows this look as a first time list?

Creature (31)

4x Birds of Paradise
4x Fauna Shaman
1x Gaddock Teeg
1x Kambal, Consul of Allocation
1x Knight of Autumn
1x Leovold, Emissary of Trest
1x Merieke Ri Berit
4x Mother of Runes
2x Noble Hierarch
1x Orzhov Pontiff
1x Palace Jailer
1x Peacekeeper
1x Plaguecrafter
1x Quirion Ranger
1x Renegade Rallier
1x Sanctum Prelate
1x Scavenging Ooze
1x Scryb Ranger
1x Shalai, Voice of Plenty
1x Spell Queller
1x True-Name Nemesis

Land (16)

1x Bayou
1x Dryad Arbor
1x Forest
4x Misty Rainforest
2x Savannah
2x Tropical Island
1x Tundra
4x Windswept Heath

Instant (4)

4x Brainstorm

Sorcery (3)

3x Green Sun's Zenith

Enchantment (2)

2x Sylvan Library

Artifact (4)

4x Aether Vial

Sideboard (15)

1x Atraxa, Praetors' Voice
1x Containment Priest
1x Ethersworn Canonist
3x Faerie Macabre
1x Glen Elendra Archmage
1x Meren of Clan Nel Toth
1x Notion Thief
1x Orzhov Pontiff
1x Phyrexian Revoker
1x Plaguecrafter
1x Sanctum Prelate
1x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1x Vampire Hexmage


I feel a little weird not having a loyal retainers/volrath's shapeshifer package with elesh norn/grisselbrand/iona. I'm worried its too clunky, but I'm also worried about not having a way to explode ahead or quickly close out games.

[Vickas]

@TSmiley: Nice I´m gonna listen to this later!


@Futuresigt: Your list looks pretty solid! things that stood out are the extra Orzhov pontiff and Plaguecrafter in the sideboard. but that feels like a meta choice.
And you only have 15 lands(without dryad arbor), even if you have 4 birds and 2 noble it feels a bit low with just 15 lands.
I play 16 Lands and thinking about adding another one.
Try to fit in some removal, Swords to plowshares or Abrupt Decay. There always a target!

I have played alot of the retainers/volrath's shapeshifter/elesh norn/grisselbrand/iona package and you don't need it, It´s fun but not a thing you need.
Atraxa are enough as a bigger creature and finisher. But I would add Loyal Retainer so you can get back any of the legendary from the grave.
--

Tried this list yesterday. Results: 2-1 vs Cloudpost, 2-0 vs Stoneblade, 0-2 vs Storm, 0-2 vs Goblins.
So not happy about last night but a few things I want to write about.

As you can see I have only 2 Fauna in this list but 3 Necrotic Ooze, and a Ooze/Phyrexian Devourer/Walking Ballista combo built in.
I Used the Combo once after I locked down the battlefield with Sanctum Prelate(1) and Peacekeeper, this was against Stoneblade, it feelt good because he had 2 Stoneforge mystic with Batterskull and Jitte.
To help dig thru the library and add things in the graveyard I have 4 Grisly Salvage with Eternal Witness, Loyal Retainers and Meren to get things out of the grave.
I will make a few changes to this list but will keep the Necrotic Ooze plan.

The losses I had was against ANT Storm going of on T3 and T4 even tho I mulligan to have some answers I diden't had enough. Note to self: Get a second Gaddock... The Storm meta is strong...
And the other loss was against Goblins. For me Goblins is a hard match-up. I have won with things like Elesh Norn or Keranos before and I really tried to get Elesh these games but was to late.
Both Goblins and the Storm player went 4-0 last night.

The list

Creature (28)
1x Atraxa, Praetors' Voice
3x Birds of Paradise
1x Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1x Eternal Witness
2x Fauna Shaman
1x Gaddock Teeg
1x Knight of Autumn
1x Lotleth Troll
1x Loyal Retainers
1x Meren of Clan Nel Toth
3x Mother of Runes
3x Necrotic Ooze
2x Noble Hierarch
1x Peacekeeper
1x Phyrexian Devourer
1x Sanctum Prelate
1x Scavenging Ooze
1x Scryb Ranger
1x Shalai, Voice of Plenty
1x Walking Ballista
1x Dryad Arbor

Land (16)

Instant (8)
3x Abrupt Decay
1x Assassin's Trophy
4x Grisly Salvage

Planeswalker (1)
1x Nissa, Steward of Elements

Sorcery (2)
2x Green Sun's Zenith

Artifact (4)
4x Aether Vial

Sideboard (15)
2x Cabal Therapy
1x Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1x Gaddock Teeg
1x Gilded Drake
1x Glen Elendra Archmage
1x Golgari Charm
1x Kambal, Consul of Allocation
1x Pithing Needle
1x Qasali Pridemage
1x Sanctum Prelate
2x Surgical Extraction
1x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1x Thoughtseize

[pettdan]

@FutureSight or Boogaloo (which do you prefer?): Great to have another active contributor here, you're most welcome! It looks ok, I would recommend trying an established list before you start making changes, but on the other hand experimenting and having fun are important aspects of why we enjoy this game so go for it! However, I think the impact of Meren and Glen Elendra on a game are high enough that you want to have them in your maindeck. Most lists tend to shave down to 3 Mother of Runes (I'm not sure, actually, Cermak runs 4 but his list is more focused on Thalia+Wasteland and Mother helps with that, whatever), I would skip one for Glen Elendra. Also, you're playing more mana dorks and less lands than what I usally run, it seems a bit strange but it's possible to experiment with these numbers. Just not sure why you would start with that, but whatever. Having a starting hand with zero ramp feels really bad, you're avoiding that with this setup I guess. But this also seems to expose you more to Snapcaster+Removal and Terminus. You're actually playing Kambal over Glenn Elendra too, which is strange. Kambal is great, but many tough matchups can ignore it while Glen Elendra would translate into a game win. I don't know, I tend to play both but in opposite sides of sb/md.

I agree with Vickas that some removal never hurts. Trying to play a game without spot removal is tough, but certainly doable. We can be weak to aggressive strategies, like Infect and Goblins, and spot removal definitely helps there.

Your sideboard looks really slow. I think it's a good idea to load up on cheap interaction to make up for the deck's weaknesses vs fast decks such as Storm, Reanimator, Belcher, etc. I like a solid base of a couple of 1 mana discard, 1 mana counterspells, and some of the 0 cost graveyard interaction. At least you have the last part. Notion Thief is fun but also vulnerable and hard to pull off, I think maybe another Leovold would be better.

Anyway, go for it, have fun and please let us know how it goes!

[FutureSight2_MTGBoogaloo]

I'll be sure to post results as soon as I get to. I play pretty exclusively paper legacy, so I wont get the chance to pick the couple things I'm missing and test it out till after Christmas.

@Vickas and @pettdan, I could definitely be wrong, but I avoided the StP and Assassin's Trophies as removal because I wanted something tutorable, Its why I'm on Pontif and Plaguecrafter both main and side. I expect to be answering DnT, Elves and TNN with pontif, and using Plaguecrafter to answer Gurmag/Jacee/Grisselbrand, rather than hoping to draw into removal spells and hoping that the removal spells I draw are right for the current situation. But Im not gunna be shocked if that turns out to be incorrect and I just need to be on a traditional removal package.

I could definitely drop down to 3 moms, but the deck really feels like it hinges on protecting fauna shaman more than anything else.

I definitely would love to have Meren and Glen Elendra main, but they feel to slow to have in against anything that isnt a grindy control matchup. Its why I have kambal main, it works effectively against Burn/Ur Delver and storm while not being dead against grixis or miracles, but I definitely lean on Teeg/Sanctum more for the hard control matchups. I bring in more pieces against fast combo, but I feel like every game 2/3 is going to be decided by mulling for turn 2 hate bear anyways, and at least reanimator is "slow" enough that I have an extra turn or 2 to dig for a plagecrafter/peacekeeper.

I could also be wrong on the land count, but my first instinct is that I want to run off 2 lands, dorks and a ranger. It probably makes me more vulnerable to spot removal, but thats also why I'm up a mom and I'm on prelates over meddling mages.

Obviously I'll have to give it some testing, and I certainly wont be surprised to find out I'm wrong.

[ChristoferV]

I really enjoy creeping in this thread and I recognize a lot of the players here from my local meta, that recently has become very M.O.S.T crowded ;)

I've been looking a lot at the posted decklists and wanted to try and put together a spicy version that is probably not as competetive as the ones posted but one that looks like a lot of fun. I gladly hear feedback, thoughts or things related to this version as I am still trying to put it together!

4 Birds of Paradise
1 Dryad Arbor
3 Fauna Shaman
1 Quirion Ranger
1 Scryb Ranger
1 Squee, Goblin Nabob
1 Dream Stalker
1 Ramunap Excavator
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Glen Elendra Archmage
4 Baleful Strix
4 Vengevine
1 Hollow One
2 Leovold, Emissary of Trest
1 Huntmaster of the Fells
1 Meren of Clan Nel Toth


1 Sylvan Library
3 Green Sun’s Zenith
1 Eldritch Evolution
4 Brainstorm
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Kolaghan’s Command
1 Assassin’s Trophy
1 Intuition
2 Dack Fayden


2 Tropical Island
1 Taiga
1 Bayou
1 Underground Sea
1 Forest
1 Island
1 Swamp
4 Misty Rainforest
2 Verdant Catacombs
2 Polluted Delta
1 Volrath’s Stronghold

Sideboard:
1 Minister of Pain
1 Toxic Deluge
2 Flusterstorm
2 Thoughtseize
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Surgical Extraction
2 Faerie Macabre
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Assassin’s Trophy
1 Null Rod
1 Kolaghan’s Command

Happy holidays everybody and I hope you all have a good start on the new year!

[pettdan]

Happy holidays and Christmas, ChristoferV and all! Nice to have you here, sweet interesting take on the deck too! I was considering adding Vengevine to a version yesterday and it may be a very good route to go, takes some consideration of whether it is worth it, taking up a lot of space in the deck (as a 4 of, but a single copy can be a useful addition too), but I can imagine that it's a good strategy vs control decks. I'll add some comments here, it's an odd version so it's hard to comment on all and testing will tell anyway.. But here's a start.

With zero Vials I think you may want to maximize your GSZ's, usually GSZ's are cut back on because they have a tension with Vials due to the anti-synergy between them. GSZ offers ramp, mana fixing, utility, removal, card advantage and lock pieces. I think you probably want 4. Not least because the list seems a bit light on mana sources (due to no Vials).

No Mothers and no Vials mean that your Fauna Shamans will be very exposed to removal. However, you play 4 Strixes and 4 Vengevines so it seems to me you'll be able to draw into threats, not relying on Fauna to find them. It's an interesting approach.

Squee, Goblin Nabob doesn't add much over Meren, it's still a good card and you can try it but I'd consider it a flexible spot. It does synergize with the Dacks and the Vengevines so maybe it's worth it next to Meren.

What I always wanted to try though is a Goblins package using Goblin Welder and Krenko, maybe Grenzo, Dungeon Warden too. Welder seems ok with the Stridges and Hollow One, you could go crazy and add a Wurmcoil or some big artifact for Welder shenanigans enabled and tutored for by Fauna Shaman. Probably not worth it, especially not without a way to protect Fauna Shaman here though. Still wanted to mention it, Scryb Ranger + Krenko might be crazy good.

The removal suite might benefit from a tutorable piece of removal, I'd consider adding a Reclamation Sage to the maindeck (it's currently in the sideboard, maybe that's enough though). You have 2 Dack though and he can take care of artifacts, but being GSZ-able is a great advantage.

Kolaghan's looks great, a shame you don't have Vial to vial in the creature you bring back at instant speed but.. Can't have it all I guess. One thing to consider is how you interact with fast threats like Glistener Elf and Goblin Lackey. I leave that an open question, but another card I wanted to suggest that is almost an answer is Granger Guildmage. You can GSZ for him and then mow down a lot with the help of the Rangers vs DnT, Elves, Goblins, Infect etc. Seems like he may be worth a slot.

Consider if you want Plague Mare over Minister of Pain. Izzet Staticaster is great when you're in red, but it has some overlap so.. You first want something that answers TNN, but after that a Staticaster may be worth it. Just something to consider.

Dream Stalker seems a bit out of place, what is he for? Strix no 5? Ah, maybe a single card that can trigger Vengevines in the graveyard. Looks like a flexible slot.

I think you could consider playing a Gaddock in the sideboard for the storm matchup even without white mana from lands.

Skipping on Vial and white's hatebears really is quite a loss for the deck, I have tried something along those lines before, actually going for Kolaghan's and Stridges and maybe a Welder, but I quickly went back. Vengevines work equally well in a gwub version so I think that merits an attempt. Anyway, red offers Scab-Clan Berserker in the vein of hatebears and he would fit well with the Vengevines I imagine, something else to consider..

Oh yeah, Ramunap Excavator looks a bit weak here, not much synergy going on. That could probably be replaced. I imagine he won't have a big impact on many games, but I said your list seemed low on mana sources, and high on cmc's actually, so I guess that motivates keeping him in.

And Huntmaster has been too weak to see play in Nic Fit decks for the past couple of years, he used to be great, not sure if he has enough impact to stay in your list. You have enough targets for removal that I can see him staying around, and Meren bringing him back is great value, but maybe you should try to add a few cards that help vs popular strategies such as those based on Show and Tell or Storm decks (I'm going to need to have a second look) rather than playing yet another card that's good in grindy matchups. The lifegain does add something useful to the deck though.

With all that said, I think there's a fair chance that a value based version such as this works better in the meta overall, since it is bound to have a better Grixis Control matchup, while still having some kind of tutorable hatebear strategy for the unfair matchups. I think you'd be better off with a white version, but it'll be interesting to see.


@Boogaloo: well you're motivating your card choices so nothing wrong with trying that. Good luck with it!


On another topic I'm back to tweaking the Aluren version from back in February - March, we'll see how that goes.

[Memories of the Time]

Another Mengucci video about our favorite deck and the 5-0 list https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=6&v=RL21PRZMyUg
I'm a little bit envious to have reached just a bounch of 4-1 with my list now ahahah

[ChristoferV]

@pettdan

Great feedback! I’m going to take the deck for a couple of spins and see what needs to improve!
I have already cut the Squee and I am considering cutting the Dreamstalker (which was mainly there for the Vengevines)

The Ramunap Excavator is mainly there to help with the mana but also to help create some cool Intuition Packages, like:
Volrath’s Stronghold + Ramunap Excavator + Meren
I have an unhealthy relationship to certain cards that might not be optimal but I will keep you posted with my results for the deck!

I’m willing to test Huntmaster at my LGS but am aware of it’s decline!
Izzet staticaster should join the party of course!

[Purple Blood]

I liked Mengucci's list but it seemed like during the matches the deck could have really benefited from a bounce effect. I would add Man-o-War. If he had access to that it would have saved him a few times either bouncing opponents creatures (e.g. Marit Large) or bouncing things like Knight of Autumn, Eternal Witness, Vendilion Clique, Meddling Mage, or Merieke for value. Another way to accomplish the latter would be a clone effect. Phantasmal image is kind of shitty with MoM so maybe Phyrexian Metamorph. The one extra CMC is probably worth being able to protect it.

I also might want to try to find room for Fulminator Mage in the 75 (maybe in place of Garruk - not sure what purpose that card serves) although I suppose Magus of the Moon might be a better answer.

I would consider cutting Tradewind Rider (too slow - if you can actually set this up it means you probably already won) and Atraxa (doesn't advance the game-plan) from the main deck. Also, unless I'm missing something, feels like Staticaster and Pontiff fill the same role except Pontiff can also answer TNN so I would cut Staticaster.

Also think it would be a mistake not to have at least one Thalia in the list. Although it could be argued this deck is more about locking out certain cards completely rather than taxing.

[Memories of the Time]

http://mythicspoiler.com/rna/cards/domrichaosbringer.jpg

At cc3, it would have been awesome. At cc4 is probably underwhelming, even in this deck when Haste is an incredible keywords for our creatures and we can rely on +2 cards for the second ability.

[pettdan]

A bit too expensive, yes, but even at 3 I think Domri Rade might be better anyway, he offers board control rather than ramp which may be better, and card draw while plussing.

Here's another almost playable card:

http://mythicspoiler.com/rna/cards/rhythmofthewild.jpg

Play mother, Fauna Shaman, Merieke or whatever with haste, also lets you use Glen Elendra infinitely with the bonus that your opponent can't counter anything you play.

The really playable card is this though:

http://mythicspoiler.com/rna/cards/deputyofdetention1.jpg

Maindeckable answer to Show and Tell, planeswalkers and a swarm of goblins, blocks well, pitches to FoW and even taps for Patron Wizard. Takes care of Jitte too, Chalice, an Eldrazi or two. Marit Lage. Edit: it does compete with Palace Jailer though.

I'm curious about this one, seems a bit weak in general but jamming out 4/4's vs Grixis C or Miracles using Vial seems pretty ok. Can be bounced with Wirewood Symbiote and brainstormed back to library if you don't need the board presence (well that may be excessive [edit: nvm, they don't need to be bounced as they come to the hand to begin with]).

http://mythicspoiler.com/rna/cards/growthchamberguardian2.jpg

Oh yeah, on the topic of bouncing with Symbiote:

http://mythicspoiler.com/rna/cards/frilledmystic.jpg

[Memories of the Time]

@Rhythm is the cc3 Domri i was talking about: give less things (no use if board is empty, no closer, no card advantage) but the difference in the casting cost is huge for us.
I think Rhythm could be awesome and i'll probably try to build a bit around it with a single Finks too, for example. That card could resolve many problems for us.

I also love Deputy, helping us moving from Black splash to Red splash maybe cutting Trophy, and yep the new Snake could be awesome in a build with Symbiote (i don't like Guardian, btw)

[AngryBacon]

Played a tuned version yesterday evening at a local game store after goldfishing a bit against tiered decks. This is legit hard to play. I have next to no experience piloting such a fair deck to be honest and the puzzle aspect of it all made me sleeve it up.

So I went 0-4 and learned as much as I could out of the 4 rounds. I came (really) unprepared but still had fun so it's a good sign I'd say. If you know me at all, you can tell I enjoy playing tier 3 decks as long as they are rogue enough to win some rounds and still have fun in the process. Yesterday's experience was about me re-discovering that combat maths are actually a thing in Legacy and that Legacy interaction doesn't necessarily mean naming correct with Cabal Therapy or playing into a Daze on purpose. Yesterday I had to:

- Count combat damage after/before two triggers from my Orzhov Pontiff while taking into account 2 Umezawa's Jitte on board and my opponent block options
- Think about my opponent's outs as I tutor for both Meddling Mage and Sanctum Prelate
- Bait out their removal suite with soft hatebears in order to benefit as much as possible from the actual hatebears for the matchup
- Remember my Leovold triggers

Very fun deck to watch in action and play alike. I felt less clunky than anticipated and the only really bad matchups that I can think of are Belcher and UR Delver with 8 bolts.

Lands 15
1 Bayou
1 Forest
1 Karakas
3 Misty Rainforest
1 Savannah
1 Scrubland
2 Tropical Island
1 Tundra
4 Windswept Heath

Creatures 31
1 Baleful Strix
3 Birds of Paradise
1 Dryad Arbor
4 Fauna Shaman
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Glen Elendra Archmage
2 Leovold, Emissary of Trest
1 Meren of Clan Nel Toth
3 Mother of Runes
3 Noble Hierarch
1 Orzhov Pontiff
1 Peacekeeper
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Quirion Ranger
1 Renegade Rallier
1 Sanctum Prelate
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Scryb Ranger
1 Shalai, Voice of Plenty
1 True-Name Nemesis
1 Vendilion Clique

Other Spells 14
4 Aether Vial
2 Assassin's Trophy
3 Brainstorm
3 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Sylvan Library
1 Umezawa's Jitte

Sideboard 15
1 Containment Priest
1 Ethersworn Canonist
3 Faerie Macabre
1 Gilded Drake
1 Kambal, Consul of Allocation
1 Knight of Autumn
1 Meddling Mage
1 Orzhov Pontiff
1 Palace Jailer
1 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Sanctum Prelate
1 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben

Storm 0-2

G1 I am presented a good 6 starter that has Aether Vial, GSZ, GSZ, dual, fetch and Noble Hierarch. I see a Bayou so it's not an usual start for my opponent who is usually on Miracles or Storm lately. I drop the Vial on the play while a T2 Gaddock Teeg surely would have won me the game.

G2 I have access to a T2 Sanctum Prelate followed with some Fauna Shaman action to tutor for Meddling Mage. Sanctum Prelate is on 4 which in my brain blocks Massacre as well (obviously he doesn't play that since it's green ANT). Two turns later comes the Meddling Mage who for some reason names Abrupt Decay... He wins a couple turns later with fast mana and Echoing Truth into a small Ad Nauseam to find the Tendrils of Agony. Very poorly played out, a Sanctum Prelate on 1 and 2 for instance would have been much better, or even Leovold.

+1 Ethersworn Canonist
+1 Kambal, Consul of Allocation
+1 Meddling Mage
+1 Phyrexian Revoker
+2 Sanctum Prelate
+1 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
-1 Baleful Strix
-1 Meren of Clan Nel Toth
-1 Peacekeeper
-1 Renegade Rallier
-1 Shalai, Voice of Plenty
-1 True-Name Nemesis
-1 Umezawa's Jitte

Post 1-2

He naturally drew his singleton Jitte the 2 games I lost. That and Walking Ballista make for a horrible matchup to play from behind when you eat All is Dust after over-extending. He properly baited the Assassin's Trophy out with Ractchet Bomb and Phyrexian Revoker before slamming down Jitte and Walking Ballista.

+1 Gilded Drake
+1 Knight of Autumn
+1 Meddling Mage
+1 Palace Jailer
+1 Phyrexian Revoker
+1 Sanctum Prelate
-1 Leovold, Emissary of Trest
-3 Mother of Runes
-1 Scavenging Ooze
-1 Brainstorm

Slow Depths 1-2

G1 he sees 1 green source (that he had to Crop Rotation away for Urborg) out of 25-something cards, my board was meanwhile growing so big and hateful that decided to concede.

G2 is close. I can delay the flying 20/20 princess long enough with a mixture of Peacekeeper, Sanctum Prelate and Mother of Runes on protecc duty for my blocker. He casts Crop Rotation and in response I activate Fauna Shaman having an Aether Vial on 2. Now for some reason I thought Meddling Mage was the hate to get since I had an extra turn to get Gilded Drake next. Turns out I did not have that extra turn and he just fetched Sejiri Steppe...

G3 is close again, but I still lose to Sejiri Steppe again with no Fauna Shaman to fiddle with...

+1 Gilded Drake
+1 Meddling Mage
+1 Orzhov Pontiff
+1 Palace Jailer
+1 Sanctum Prelate
-1 Gaddock Teeg
-2 Leovold, Emissary of Trest
-1 Renegade Rallier
-1 Brainstorm

Death and Taxes 0-1

If we were playing at any amount of serious REL we would have got each at least 4 warnings/slaps this game. She playing Swords to Plowshares under her own Sanctum Prelate on 1, forgetting she has a Karakas buried under her massive board of Plains when I'm enjoying the company of Meren. I forgetting my Leovold triggers 3 turns in a row (yes, three) as she proceeds to tap 2 of my lands at the upkeep... The biggest mistake though must have been to cast Assassin's Trophy targetting her Aether Vial instead of the Phyrexian Revoker naming Fauna Shaman...

Still managed to recover from there and stabilize the board thanks to Peacekeeper (and her own Sanctum Prelate on 1, which she had to Flickerwisp at some point to exile Peacekeeper). Game ended with me top-decking lands at the wrong moment.

[pettdan]

Thanks a lot for the report, AngryBacon! I really enjoy reading sbout others' experiences.. I'll just write some quick comments now. It seems like most matchups were winnable, but well some amount of luck is always needed and being new to the deck and archetype and even just attacking with creatures surely doesn't help. ;)

I think Cloudpost is a tough matchup, unless you have a fast combo win or some mana denial (Fulminator Mage could help here, coupled with Meren, or Magus of the Moon). Meddling Mage on Walking Ballista may help too.

If opponent goes t1 Bayou I'd probably open with Vial too, not much to do about that. I think, otoh.. Against an unknown opponent in a competitive environment, maybe this very aspect merits consideration. An early ramp spell allows for faster interaction with SnT, Storm and Reanimator decks.. Like, Vial still lets you interact at instant speed which can be great, depending on what's in your hand and deck; if there's a Gilded Drake in the deck, the value of having an active Aether Vial goes way up vs SnT, Reanimator and Turbo Depths.

I think DnT and probably Turbo Depths, not convinced there, are pretty good and somewhat favorable matchups.

I think discard and cheap counterspells are good to have in the sb, they might have helped with early interaction vs both Storm and Turbo Depths. If you can just buy a few turns you can usually establish control.

Ah yeah, one more thing, it's hard for me too to know what number to choose with Prelate. I used to name 2 to shut off tutors vs Storm, but then sometimes they go off through it which feels bad. If you name 4, then at least the opponent has to find an answer. And you can get Mother to help with that, protecting Prelate. A vial can tick up to work around bounce spells, but if you don't have it you don't have it.

[AngryBacon]

A vial can tick up to work around bounce spells, but if you don't have it you don't have it.


That reminds me, I did have an active Aether Vial that I forgot to tick up to 3... So I would still have the game against his Echoing Truth line if I hadn't forgot the upkeep trigger. Yesterday felt like I was playing intoxicated, unsure what to blame other than my own unpreparedness :D

[ChristoferV]

So I tried the Vengevine build at my LGS this wednesday and had a lot of fun! The deck can be improved by miles and I will continuing by looking at small improvements as I keep brewing. One problem is having a good finish, any suggestions?

Here is my current list:

Creatures:28
1 Dryad Arbor
4 Birds of Paradise
1 Quirion Ranger
4 Baleful Strix
4 Fauna Shaman
1 Lotleth Troll
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Scryb Ranger
2 Leovold, Emissary of Trest
1 Ramunap Excavator
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Glen Elendra Archmage
1 Huntmaster of the Fells
1 Meren of Clan Nel Toth
3 Vengevine
1 Hollow One

Spells:15
4 Brainstorm
4 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Assassin's Trophy
1 Sylvan Library
2 Dack Fayden
1 Intuition
1 Kolaghan's Command

Lands:17
2 Bayou
1 Forest
4 Misty Rainforest
2 Polluted Delta
1 Taiga
2 Tropical Island
1 Underground Sea
2 Verdant Catacombs
1 Volcanic Island
1 Volrath's Stronghold

Sideboard:15
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Faerie Macabre
1 Izzet Staticaster
1 Magus of the Moon
1 Minister of Pain
2 Flusterstorm
1 Red Elemental Blast
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Thoughtseize
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Kolaghan's Command
1 Liliana, the Last Hope

Match 1 vs UW Blade:
0-2
I failed to find my good cards in the matchup and died both games against equipment. Both matches would have ended very differently if I would have seen a Dack Fayden, Kolaghan’s Command or Decay.

Match 2 vs Reanimator MOST:
2-1
Game one my opponent miss land drops and is close on making a comeback due to me not finding the right creatures but eventually the lack of lands are too much for my opponent.
Game two he reanimates the crap out of me with Griselbrands and Elesh Norns. I get to Intuition for 2 surgicals and 1 Macabre but it’s not enough!
Game three we are a bit low on time but after a couple of heavy hitting Minister of Pain and eventually a calculated Vengevine turn with Intuition I manage to get there before time makes it a draw!

Match 3 vs BUG opposition:
1-1-1
Game one my deck did what I wanted. I got my early Leovold, Fauna to put Vengevines in the bin and eventually too much pressure for my opponent to handle.
Game two is a grind fest but eventually my opponent makes a Titania and five 5/3s, taps down almost all of my team with Opposition and get exactsies before lethal attack the turn after. He does this turn 2 after time is called so it’a a draw.

Match 4 vs Zombardment.
1-2
Game one I get destroyed by a very fast hand. He got everything going and did so while also killing my board with a Bombardment in play.
Game two I stabilize with a big Lotleth troll and eventually a Huntmaster joins the battle to put the nail in the coffin. I got to surgical my opponents good threats and resolve an early Sylvan Library, that really won me the match!
Game three was terrible and I failed to find black mana after two brainstorms. Died with 4 black cards in hand!

1-2-1

I have a few ideas of improving the deck in mind. Before the tournament I was aming on playing Shaman of the Great Hunt rather than Huntmaster of the Fells but opted for the GSZ target!
What do you all think?

[pettdan]

Thanks for the report, ChristoferV! I'm a bit surprised you need more finishers, since you have the Vengevines. Saskia is a pretty good finisher, one of few dedicated finishers I've seen in a while. TNN another. I like Shaman a lot, but it really benefits from Aether Vial, both in finding it (Fauna more easily online with Vials), getting it to resolve and having mana up to draw cards. Do try, it's a very fun card that does a lot.

It seems like you can never have too much Jitte interaction, for sure. Depending on how popular Jitte is, and in Sthlm it's always around..

Need I say it will be very interesting to see what you come up with here..

[JackaBo]

Great to have Stockholms finest brewers in the same thread.

[pettdan]

Indeed, JackaBo, maybe you'll join too soon? Anyway, we should also mention Paris, Bern[edit: nope, unknown city in Switzerland] and Italy (not sure where Memories is from actually) and other places that are involved, though there has been a large density of Stockholm MOST players lately..

[pettdan]

I found a link on reddit to a web archive of the Dojo where I used to hang in the 90's so I had a look and found a few decks that are basically MOST predecessors [edit: slight overstatement] from back then. I think I played some 5c Tradewind stuff back in Standard then but still trying to remember any details. It seems like a MOST should have been a pretty good Extended deck in the late 90's.. I'll keep looking and add something to deck history in the primer later.

I'm thinking more of you will enjoy reading these so I thought I'd judt share the links here now.

Extended reports:

Edit: this is a sliver version, I've been thinking to draft a legacy list to see if it's a useful approach.
http://web.archive.org/web/20001011044359/http://www.thedojo.com/t983/tex.980830cma.txt

Edit: winter orb-version
http://web.archive.org/web/20001007224455/http://www.thedojo.com/t981/tex.980330cma.txt


--mostly Standard reports.

Edit: survival-recurring:
http://web.archive.org/web/20001007154720/http://www.thedojo.com/t984/t2.981210smi.txt

Edit: survival-recurring
http://web.archive.org/web/20001016134954/http://thedojo.com/t984/t2.981201jbi.txt

http://web.archive.org/web/20001014151100/http://thedojo.com/t984/t15.981107gro.txt

http://web.archive.org/web/20000930181522/http://thedojo.com/t984/tex.981215mra.txt

http://web.archive.org/web/20001024152243/http://www.thedojo.com/t983/t2.980804jst.txt

http://web.archive.org/web/20001004054919/http://www.thedojo.com/t982/t2.980412ash.txt

http://web.archive.org/web/20001019150712/http://thedojo.com/t981/t2.980201jcr.txt

http://web.archive.org/web/20001007065511/http://www.thedojo.com/t981/t2.980125kbu.txt

http://web.archive.org/web/20000413093535/http://thedojo.net/tourney97/t2.971201jto.txt

Edit: thanks DireLemming! I'm glad you appreciate it!

[DireLemming]

Damn, those are some spicy brews. If nothing else material for Premodern.

Great find!

[pettdan]

For those interested, a link to Phil Gallagher's stream of MOST yesterday is in the primer section for online coverage. I quite enjoyed watching it, but of course he's quite new to the deck and like all lists the 75 can be discussed. Edit: there was some reflection on the version he played at the end of the stream, I think these points were fairly clear from a first glance at the list (of course he can't know this based on this being a first attempt); playing a 5c list with 14 lands, also 3 meddling mages, a clique and no tundra, seems like it can be troublesome. Well, it can also work but it's probably not the way to do it.

Edit: thanks DireLemming! Glad you appreciate it! I wrote thanks in the post above but I guess few people read backwards so here it is again.

Another edit: the primer hit max message length today, now I see why people reserve several messages early in a primer. :) I may start removing excessive stuff.

[AngryBacon]

Played a 4 rounds event yesterday with Vickas' list (Most Breakfast?), lightly updated.


// Lands 15
1 Bayou
1 Forest
1 Karakas
3 Misty Rainforest
1 Savannah
1 Scrubland
2 Tropical Island
1 Tundra
4 Windswept Heath

// Creatures 35
3 Birds of Paradise
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
4 Fauna Shaman
1 Glen Elendra Archmage
2 Griselbrand
1 Loyal Retainers
1 Meren of Clan Nel Toth
1 Minion of Leshrac
4 Mother of Runes
1 Necrotic Ooze
3 Noble Hierarch
1 Phage the Untouchable
1 Qasali Pridemage
2 Quirion Ranger
1 Sanctum Prelate
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Scryb Ranger
1 Shalai, Voice of Plenty
2 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Volrath's Shapeshifter

// Other Spells 10
4 Aether Vial
4 Brainstorm
2 Green Sun's Zenith

// Sideboard 15
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Containment Priest
3 Faerie Macabre
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Gilded Drake
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 Kambal, Consul of Allocation
1 Knight of Autumn
1 Merieke Ri Berit
1 Peacekeeper
1 Sanctum Prelate
1 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben


With this version I didn't feel the lack of CA that I did with the more traditional version. This version can just win on the spot off the correct top-deck when all hope is lost.

It's really fun to mess with opponent decision tree when you just reveal a Shapeshifter off Aether Vial end of turn. Or when you see their eyes widen in horror as they realize that my Necrotic Ooze will make me draw 7 since they discarded their Griselbrand.
The land count is still the correct one, I had 2 floods yesterday against what I believed to be an easy matchup, 4c Humans but no mana death. Small sample anyway.

The actual strength of this deck is being able to force so much effort on disrupting the Fauna Shaman from opponent. Similarly, in Grixis Painter, they will Bolt and Force every Painter they see, but will be blank against the Goblin Welder that comes right after. Yesterday was like that all along. They would focus all their interaction on the Fauna Shaman and be dead as I GSZ for a 4th one, or naturally draw Meren/Nooze/Scooze (who just gets big, really).

Lost to 4c Human and Miracles (2 very very close games) and won against Nic Fit and Bant Blade.
That Bant player really had it all, going to time even, small crowd gathered and witnessed Dryad Arbor vialed in, double activation of Minion of Leshrac in the same turn, followed by a draw 7, and attack with a green-protected Phage for the win.

The sideboard needs work (realized too late that Containment Prist doesn't only mess with GSZ and Aether Vial, but also Meren, Glen and Loyal Retainer.
Here is what I was thinking about before the even but didn't make the cut:

2 Carpet of Flowers
1 Sanctum Prelate (3rd)
1 Orzhov Pontiff
1 Big Game Hunter
1 Necrotic Ooze (2nd)
1 Leovold, Emissary of Trest

[pettdan]

Great report, AngryBacon, thanks for sharing!

Here is a short note on some strategies I would like to revisit or test, I thought I'd write them down quickly, maybe someone has ideas or suggestions:

- Goblins. Lots of haste beaters with unique bullet type of effects is sweet. Cratermaker answering Emrakul is pretty nice too, I could see a 1/1 split with Qasali. It takes out Delver too, a Qasali that also takes out Delver and Emrakul is... Fantastic. But not green of course. Ah yeah, Goblin Welder adds another dimension to the list by itself, but finding which artifacts work with it is usually the challenge. Maybe something that could be podded into or weldered, with a good ETB effect... Like Wurmcoil, but 6 cmc is too hard to pod into, or..

- Pod. With the new pod-creature, Vannifar, you can reasonably expect to pod every now and then. Which creatures benefit from this? The deck-building cost of adding a Vannifar is minimal. And it gives you another way to tutor for cards you need, semi-ramping one mana too. I like it with Scarab God. I've played it a bit before, with Vannifar it's better. Actually any 5-drop gets better with Vannifar. Like Shriekmaw, who is great with Meren and takes out Emrakul (well, not at instant speed like I first thought) and great vs Eldrazi. Still doesn't deal with opposing Gurmag or TNN so it's not great, but a consideration. I don't know, this topic requires a long thought and a separate post, but there is clear potential. It may even be fruitful to add a copy of actual Birthing Pod, depending on what one comes up with. But it is not necessary. Separate discussion.

- Aluren, like I've said. Great synergy with all of the deck, instant speed win vs agressive decks or especially control decks, and you get to play card advantage creatures.

- A build focusing on Hallowed Spiritkeeper, which I've suggested before, which singlehandedly causes trouble vs Grixis Control, how can they expect to win through it, with Strixes I suppose. A single copy of Spiritkeeper in your deck coupled with Meren is a token producing factory by itself. Very low deck-building cost, and this synergy or strategy can be further built upon with Disciple of Bolas (again, nothing new here). Also great synergy with Cataclysm, which I'm still theoretically high on. This deck handles Cataclysm like no other, or so I like to think. Might even go 3 maindeck Spiritkeepers and 2 Cataclysms... Well, it will probably not improve the deck, but it's another interesting attempt.

- I, too, want to try Volrath's Shapeshifter with Minion of Leshrac. And Shapeshifter has synergy with a lot of the deck, I've always liked Necrotic Ooze Better though. Yes, that's actually what I should play next to Minion unless going all crazy/Vikas/AngryBacon [edit: this is a compliment].

- Deputy of Detention is going to be great, I imagine. And it opens up for a more blue-focused version with Patron Wizard, adding wizards makes it more relevant and I'm eager to try it again. Patron Wizards wins games single-handedly. But... I don't know, we'll see. I was thinking of going more blue-white, using karakas and Clique, maybe Venser too. They are all Wizards and great with Clique and Karakas. Clique and Venser gives you combo interaction, coupled with Vial and Karakas this turns into soft locks. While Deputy takes care of permanents on the ground. This list could of course skip the MOST shell, but it can also easily be put into MOST for a more flexible version.

- I've been thinking of trying some good protection creature, like Phyrexian Crusader or Paladin en-Vec. Not sure which one, but if you can have protection vs most removal spells from Grixis Control and Miracles, and also relevant vs other decks like DnT and Grixis Delver, that seems like a potentially good move. Well, TNN already does that I guess. But I'm thinking of alternatives. Maybe some other creature can do it better, resistance to -1/-1 effects, not costing [edit: double] blue, some other advantage I don't know.. Of course, Mirran Crusader has double strike, but protection from green is not very relevant right now. Edit: There is Vengevine too, coming back after sweepers and ignoring Hymn.

- Trying a list with 4 Sanctum Prelates. This is relevant in so many matchups, that's why I started on 2 maindecked copies 6 months ago. Chalice decks play 4 Chalices, this card is Chalice for us.. Well, I don't know, it's just another thing to consider testing.

[AngryBacon]

Cratermaker answering Emrakul is pretty nice too, I could see a 1/1 split with Qasali. It takes out Delver too, a Qasali that also takes out Delver and Emrakul is... Fantastic. But not green of course.


I think Big Game Hunter is the correct option to deal with Emrakul and friends.
It doesn't interact as well as Shriekmaw with recursion from Meren, but it can
target Griselbrand for instance. I also think that if I were to untap with Fauna
Shaman and look for a way to handle a flipped Delver I would just tutor for
Scryb Ranger instead who has its other uses. Baleful Strix also works but these
2 can be bolted so they don't exactly replace the goblin actually. In the
Breakfast version, I would just make a Griselbrand anyway and eat 3 damage a
turn as long as I can I suppose.



Aluren, like I've said. Great synergy with all of the deck, instant speed win vs
agressive decks or especially control decks, and you get to play card advantage
creatures.


I would like to try that someday, see what's the most compact package for Aluren
where drawing a Recruiter of the Guard just win on the spot but with not too many "dead"
creatures that are not good enough on their own.



I, too, want to try Volrath's Shapeshifter with Minion of Leshrac.


It's really that stupid, with no long-term way to "reorder" the graveyard like
Psychatog used to allow (Scoose costs G each activation) I think Necrotic Ooze
is the better synergy but they both work indeed. It just so happens that Phage
requires Volrath's Shapeshifter. Its last ability really has become relevant
since we're now usually limited to one activation of the Fauna Shaman per turn.



Not sure which one, but if you can have protection vs most removal spells from
Grixis Control and Miracles, and also relevant vs other decks like DnT and
Grixis Delver, that seems like a potentially good move. Well, TNN already does
that I guess. But I'm thinking of alternatives.


I agree with TNN outclassing other alternatives, but Infect with Atraxa is yet
another angle ;-)

[pettdan]

I made some quick updates probably while you were responding, AngryBacon, like adding the comment about Necrotic Ooze, yes, it's probably better with Minion.


Cratermaker answering Emrakul is pretty nice too, I could see a 1/1 split with Qasali. It takes out Delver too, a Qasali that also takes out Delver and Emrakul is... Fantastic. But not green of course.


I think Big Game Hunter is the correct option to deal with Emrakul and friends.
It doesn't interact as well as Shriekmaw with recursion from Meren, but it can
target Griselbrand for instance. I also think that if I were to untap with Fauna
Shaman and look for a way to handle a flipped Delver I would just tutor for
Scryb Ranger instead who has its other uses. Baleful Strix also works but these
2 can be bolted so they don't exactly replace the goblin actually. In the
Breakfast version, I would just make a Griselbrand anyway and eat 3 damage a
turn as long as I can I suppose.

So, the important thing to notice here is that you must have artifact removal in your maindeck, or you lose a lot of matches. Or well, you don't have to, but it's pretty great. This is also meta dependent, if all you see is combo, then forget about artifact removal. Anyway, when your artifact removal serves double duty by also getting rid of two of the format's premier threats, Delver and Emrakul, that is an absurd upswing for this piece of artifact removal. Of course, being non-green is a great disadvantage. Cratermaker does not compete with Shriekmaw or Big Game Hunter, Cratermaker competes with Abrupt Decay and Qasali/KoA no 2. If Cratermaker wins that battle, then Shriekmaw and Big Game Hunter become a bit less relevant. Why would you waste a sideboard slot on a tutorable piece of functionality that you already have access to, of course a second copy is nice but maybe a second Cratermaker would be better then.. Well, it requires a red list, which is why I mentioned it under the goblins theme. Actually, it's pretty sweet that goblins are red so the lost enchantment removal from playing Cratermaker over a Qasali is not that bad, considering that you can partly ignore Blood Moon, the main enchantment you'd want to destroy, and just play your goblins, the goblins that you happen to draw.



I would like to try that someday, see what's the most compact package for Aluren
where drawing a Recruiter of the Guard just win on the spot but with not too many "dead"
creatures that are not good enough on their own.

I've been drafting an update of the list I played a year ago, I'll eventually test it and then post it. It worked pretty ok last time, but that doesn't really mean anything. Actually, I didn't use the win on the spot card, Parasitic Strix, since I didn't want to introduce a dead card to the deck, instead using some synergies. Thing is, with Knight of Autumn in the deck, this opens a life-gaining ability from Aluren which lets you replay creatures infinitely. So just the addition of Knight of Autumn improves the list by a lot. [edit: oh yeah, infinite life is pretty good in itself too]

A practical comment, you can use the command cards and /cards, with brackets around them, before your list of cards to get links added, this is a pretty useful feature and invaluable for our unorthodox card choices. :)

[AngryBacon]

Cratermaker does not compete with Shriekmaw or Big Game Hunter, Cratermaker competes with Abrupt Decay and Qasali/KoA no 2


Very good point, I misunderstood and was comparing the second Quasali slot (which is Knight of Autumn in my sideboard) with it.



A practical comment, you can use the command cards and /cards, with brackets around them, before your list of cards to get links added, this is a pretty useful feature and invaluable for our unorthodox card choices. :)


Do you mean in my decklist? I was doing exactly that for inline cards in my post.

Edit: Yup, edited it in, thanks ;-)

[JackaBo]

Thraben tries fauna toolbox
https://youtu.be/8UqKntsRBgw

[pettdan]

Yes, thanks JackaBo!

Added:


I agree with TNN outclassing other alternatives, but Infect with Atraxa is yet
another angle ;-)

Ah yeah, Atraxa Infect. ;) We have Phyrexian Crusader and I guess Viridian Corrupter. And Noble Hierarch. Hmm..

[AngryBacon]

I suppose I can just link my list through a permanent deckbox.org link since it's not likely to change too much now.

https://deckbox.org/sets/2230936 (https://deckbox.org/sets/2230936)

Finished 2-1 at a small FNM yesterday.

2-0 UR Delver

Two extremely close games. I close the first one at 1 life with an unblockable Phage and the second one at 2 life with a humonguous Scooze and friends. Sanctum Prelate MVP both games.

0-2 Death and Taxes

Friend and white fair Magic expert proceed to pummel my pretty face the 2 games. He doesn't know what's up but he heard the names Phage and Merieke during round 1 so he's pretty anxious and place me on some spice from another world, as per usual.
Very very slow game one where none of us find something to close the game. I have a lot of mana though. I can turtle a little longer by eating more of my blocking creatures with Scooze but I just concede afraid we wouldn't have time for a third game as he builds a better and better board.
Second game is shorter, Mirran Crusader with both Jitte and Batterskull hits like a truck. The one-turn window I had I wasted tutoring for a Leovold (instead of a Knight of Autumn) that would hopefully prevent Jitte to wipe my board. Too bad I forgot about his Karakas I guess...

2-0 Death and Taxes

I don't remember the specifics but I didn't feel any pressure other than a late Brightling. Luckily a second Brainstorm ended up finding Abrupt Decay at the right time (he was stuck on 2 Plains only).
Pontiff buries him so deep I can probably kill him in 3 turns just attacking with a huge board and Elesh Norn but I don't see it and keep playing around with the shapeshifter for a cleaner kill.

Overall, I'm most impressed with how gamebreaking some of the interactions can be versus tiered decks. Also, Pontiff 100% never leaving the main.

Jankiest moment against Death and Taxes was as follow:
As I untap, I have active Fauna Shaman, Birds of Paradise, Noble Hierarch, Scavenging Ooze and Volrath's Shapeshifter. Top of the graveyard is Meren then Elesh Norn, fetchland then Phage. In hand I got Scryb Ranger and Mother of Runes
I declare all but Fauna Shaman attacking. Before blocks they activate Vial on 3, I let it resolve, it's a Flickerwisp targetting the "Meren". In response I eat my Meren with Scooze to kill the Flickerwisp. And there I was counting for lethal (it was lethal) but one mana short to Play the Scryb Ranger, untap the "Elesh Norn", discard the Mother of Runes, give my newly acquired Mother of Runes protection from the white, and finally eat it with Scooze to still be attacking with a full board of Elesh Norn'd stuff. I explain the line to my opponent and they just concede knowing they can't possibly survive next turn anyway.

Edit: As I write this I'm thinking I would have had said mana if I had attacked with Elesh Norn in the first place (Vigilance), no need to play the Scryb Ranger to untap!

[pettdan]

Here's a short report from today's local legacy event. I almost always write a report when playing this deck, since years back, and now that AngryBacon has been sharing I feel like I definitely should too. I played a version similar to the one in the local league finals, some 6 months ago, it's not quite tuned. And lacking Deputy of Detention that I'd like to test. Not sure if it'd made a difference in any of the games, actually. Anyway, being quite rusty with the deck I made a couple of mistakes that ended up costing me games. I hope I learn something from this, but since some of these mistakes are actually quite similar to what happened during the games in that league finals I'm not entirely optimistic. Nothing replaces regular practice with this deck. I wanted to put together an Aluren version and try it, but ended up not having time for it so went with a few adjustments to the previous version.

Btw, it's interesting to notice that Scryb Ranger has finally taken off in price, I wonder if there is a specific reason, didn't hear of any modern deck using it but I'm not following that format that closely (yet, I want to test MOST there too). I had been wondering why such a good card, an uncommon in an old set, was not worth more.

Changes to the list:
I decided to cut the third Savannah in favor of another Noble Hierarch, just to get less clunky hands with no t1 acceleration. Not sure if it's good, because vs decks with removal the mana dorks are just fodder for their removal. Anyway, I'll try it.

Also, I cut a TNN, a Stoneforge, a Sword of L&S and something else [edit: also down 2 StP's I think, which hurts vs Lage/Infect/Phoenix etc I suppose, but I may have made room for them by making a meta dependent choice and skipping Gaddock and a Qasali for this specific tournament] to add a Vengevine, a Hallowed Spiritkeeper, and a Palace Jailer, just to see if the extra grind could help vs Grixis Control - removing stuff that his vulnerable to spot removal, Kolaghan's Command and sweepers and replacing it with stuff that is not. It never came up though, except for the Spiritkeeper that was actually cleanly answered by Jace bounce and Snapcaster Hymn. Very unsatisfactory. ;)

For the sideboard, most of it is from that finals, which means it may be a bit skewed, but I wasn't sure what to change and no time to consider. I still really like the idea of Cataclysm and Carpet of Flowers, as well as the maindecked Prelates. I added a Fulminator Mage, not sure what I removed for it actually as my sideboard was missing cards when I started. But I've wanted to play Fulminator Mage for a long time, so now at least I got to bring it along but never found it or needed to tutor for it.

Maindeck:
15 Lands excl Arbor
1 Forest
2 Tropical Island
2 Savannah
2 Bayou
1 Tundra
7 Fetches

1 Dryad Arbor
3 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Noble Hierarch
3 Birds of Paradise [edit: 3 not 4]
2 Scryb Ranger
3 Fauna Shaman
1 Recruiter of the Guard
4 Aether Vial

3 Mother of Runes
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Orzhov Pontiff
1 Knight of Autumn
1 Hallowed Spiritkeeper
1 Leovold, Emissary of Trest
2 Sanctum Prelate
1 Meren of Clan Nel Toth
1 Glen Elendra Archmage
1 Shalai
1 Vengevine
1 Palace Jailer
1 Atraxa

2 Sylvan Library
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Assassin's Trophy
2 Brainstorm

Sb:
2 Invasive Surgery
1 Flusterstorm
1 Duress
2 Leyline of the Void
1 Swords to Plowshares
2 Carpet of Flowers
2 Cataclysm
1 Kambal, Consul of Allocation
1 Fulminator Mage
1 Keranos, God of Storms
1 Linvala, Keeper of Silence



So, this will be a bit brief as I'm writing this in the middle of the night, mostly commenting on crucial plays and misplays. I may add comments about MVP's later, I like going back to have a look at that.

M1: UW Stoneblade
G1: I make a bad attack t3 with exalted Hallowed Spiritkeeper into untapped Stoneforge with a fetched Batterskull in hand, there were no creatures in the graveyard yet so it was a bad trade, which I realized too late, so I considered saving my decay in hand for a more crucial Jitte, that might turn up at some point, but decided to take out the germ token and slow down the opponent's development. I had some nice creatures in hand that would build some board presence while he spent two turns bouncing and recasting the Batterskull. Proceed to get all my creatures destroyed by Jitte 4-5 turns later.

G2: I decide to take a risk and play proactively at sorcery speed, tapping out in my main phase to put some extra pressure on the opponent with Palace Jailer, opponent then has no creatures in play, and next turn a Meren coupled with active Fauna Shaman and Vial to build an overwhelming board presence, practically drawing three cards per turn (including a Fauna Shaman activation). Well, opponent follows up on my Meren with a Humility, which renders my impressive board of Meren, Scryb Ranger, Mother, Fauna Shaman, etc, into an unimpressive gang that are quickly dealt with by his Gideon, Sword of Fire & Ice and Jitte. I realize a bit late that I would have been able to, if I'd remembered to use Scryb Ranger to untap in my main phase, tutor for Glen Elendra, vial her in and counter the Humility, uncounterably. Similarly, Gaddock would have been a better defensive play here, I think I was worrying about Jitte but with Mother + Scryb that was covered.

Note to self here: vs UW blade decks, prepare for Humility, Jitte and Supreme Verdict.
Result: 0-2 in games, 0-1 in matches

M2: Oops all spells
G1: He goes off on t2 on the play, I think, I had no chance to interact. Make sure he plays it out to see what wincon was used, the new finisher that is Dread Return-ed into play to deal damage equal to the amount of creatures in his graveyard. While browsing his deck I found both FoW and Pact of Negation, and 3-4 of the new scry Sphinx, Sphinx of Foresight, very interesting. Such a fast deck with counterspell protection, that can be tough.

G2: I mull to 3, looking for t1 interaction or t0 (leyline), don't find it. He goes t1 or t2 Sphinx, and I take hits down to 4 before I get Scryb Ranger to block it, get Gaddock Teeg into play and Scavenging Ooze, Kambal too I think, then beat him down from there.

G3: I mull to 6, I think, which has a Leyline and no lands. I keep it, there's a lot of ramp and interaction and I only need to find 1 land to get started. I find the land on my t2 I think, he casts the Undercity Informer and starts beating down with it, then a Sphinx joins and I drop low on life. I get out Ooze to race but there are no creatures in our graveyards, as I vial in a blocker for the Informer, the opponent makes the mistake of sacrificing his Informer targeting my library, giving my Ooze plenty of life to turn the game around. I get a Scryb Ranger out too, I think, and win from there. As we discussed what would have happened if I'd drawn the milled cards instead, I'd have been hard pressed there, needing to topdeck a good card after a shuffle. Oh well, these fast graveyard decks can be tough, it's why I like to have a couple of Leylines around, especially when I don't play FoW. They slow down the game like nothing else.

Result: 2-1 in games, 1-1 in matches

M3: Turbo Depths with Night's Whispers over Confidants
G1: I saw what this guy was on as he was playing next to me one game, and I manage to put up defenses, Scryb Ranger + Mother I think, by t3 or so but opponent gets Marit Lage and Sejiri Step for protection so it's over quickly.

G2: Starting hand has Noble Hierach, Fauna Shaman and 5 lands. I figure I have a good chance to get Fauna Shaman active, being on the play, but I proceed to draw lands while opponent makes t2 Marit Lage that I can't stop.
I think this is the first time I play against Turbo Depths, it has been quite unpopular locally until recently. I'll revice my board to see if I need something for this deck..
Results: 0-2 in games, 1-2 in matches

M4: Grixis Control with TNN's
G1: Kolaghan's, Snacpaster Kolaghan's I think.
G2: Not sure what happened here, must have won this one. I think Orzhov Pontiff Cleared out a TNN and a Snapcaster, then I beat down for the win.
G3: I only draw 1 land for the first 2 turns but get Scryb, BoP and Meren into play, sandbag a second land and Cataclysm as on t4, he had just cast a TNN but I figure with active Meren I'll easily race it by building an impressive board state. He ends up racing me with 2 TNN's, I tutor for Pontiff to deal 17-18 damage in my first turn after time has been called. He got stuck on 3 lands after the Cataclysm and showed a hand with a lot of interaction that he didn't get to play.
Result: 2-1 in games, 2-2 in matches

So, in total a 2-2 result, it could have been 3-1 or 1-3 I guess, and the list is a bit untuned and so am I. Great fun was had by all parties involved.

[pettdan]

Here's a brief report. I tried an Aluren list in the local weekly today, unfortunately I boarded Aluren out in every game so it wasn't the best matchups to try it, I suppose. I resolved it once but had nothing useful in hand. I may try it again a few times, but it doesn't seem like it's the right way to go right now. Regarding the list, the sideboard was a bit quickly put together. We're between leagues now so people tend to play a bit more experimental decks.

R1: Oozing
G1: Think I lost this one to his combo.
G2&3: Open both games with Leyline, which is quite lucky, and draw a reasonable amount of interaction and pressure. I get to flusterstorm Echoing Truth on Leyline in one game. He uses Massacre to reset my board a few times, but a bit sooner than he needed to. I had 15 cards to board in in this matchup, so this is an indication that the sideboard can be balanced.
Result: 2-1 in games, 1-0 in matches

R2: Eldrazi
G1: I have 5 lands, BoP and Qasali in my starting hand, and proceed to draw like 2 lands and another BoP I think. He plays 2 Thought-Knots and turn them sideways until it's over.
G2: He attacks with an equipped Jitte on his t2, I spend the game trying to survive then as I might stabilize there's a Ballista clearing my board. We played a third game which I lost too. I need more sideboard cards for this matchup, clearly [edit: or actually I'm not so sure, this Aluren version plays 3 Strixes in the maindeck, but probably a Peacekeeper could be added to the sideboard, or something to deal with Ballista]. I boarded in 2 StP's and maybe a Thoughtseize. Resolving Aluren could race them, and I did resolve Aluren in one game, through Thorn of Amethyst, but only had a Pontiff in hand.
Results: 0-2 in games this round, 1-1 in matches

R3: Death's Shadow
G1: He wins with double Shadows, Delver and a Gurmag. He Dismembered my early acceleration I think.
G2: I misboard, bringing in 2 Carpets but not bringing any mana producer out. It ends up helping me as I withstand his mana denial. Ooze is quite useful here, proactively taking care of his Gurmag, gaining life, racing Delver etc. I think I Swords an early Gurmag actually, Scryb Ranger keeps Delver off. I think he draw quite little removal so I got to play the game I want.
G3: Draw my first Strixes in this game, they are clearly fantastic. I think again he has little removal and I establish board control.
Results: 2-1 in games this round, 2-1 in matches

R4: Grixis Phoenix
He has slow starts, I get Ooze and Leovold into play, Strixes to buy some time. Also get good topdecks in g2 when my hand is all mana: he rituals out Liliana tlH on t1, I go Brainstorm on t1 and 2 Carpets on t2. He gets out Pyromancer and Confidant, starts drawing cards. I sweep his creatures with Pontiff AND gsz for Leovold on my t3 (thanks carpets!). He bolts leovold and then Liliana takes out Pontiff. Next turn I gsz for leo again, he has to minus Lily to keep it alive at 6 counters, and from there I stabilize and take over. Leo stops his hand of cantrips.
Results: 2-0 in games this round, 3-1 in matches

MvP of the night was Scavenging Ooze. Maybe the two Aluren should just be two extra Oozes.

Here's the list (too late at night to make the list pretty [edit: formatted in 2024]):

Lands: 16
1 Dryad Arbor
2 Bayou
1 Forest
3 Misty Rainforest
2 Savannah
2 Tropical Island
1 Underground Sea
4 Verdant Catacombs

Non-creature spells: 15
2 Brainstorm
3 Aether Vial
2 Sylvan Library
2 Assassin's Trophy
2 Aluren
4 Green Sun's Zenith

Creatures: 29
4 Birds of Paradise
2 Noble Hierarch
1 Quirion Ranger
3 Fauna Shaman
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Scryb Ranger
3 Baleful Strix
1 Cavern Harpy
1 Qasali Pridemage
3 Recruiter of the Guard
1 Man-o'-War
1 Eternal Witness
1 Knight of Autumn
2 Leovold, Emissary of Trest
2 Orzhov Pontiff
1 Glen Elendra Archmage
1 Meren of Clan Nel Toth

Sb:
Carpet of Flowers 2
Thoughtseize 1
Duress 1
Swords to Plowshares 2
Flusterstorm 1
Invasive Surgery 2
Gilded Drake 1
Sanctum Prelate 2
Kambal, Consul of Allocation 1
Leyline of the Void 2

[pettdan]

Beast Whisperer is something to consider. It may be a win-more card, at 4 mana you may want to do something meaningful, on the other hand it's a one card slot that lets you go for card advantage tactics, giving you permanent-ish Glimpse. Meren already offers this kind of card advantage with more flexibility, I'd say, but this card offers more of raw card advantage. I saw Julian Knab playing it on stream the other day, looked good.

[Bedell]

What matchup would you want beast whisperer for?

In control matchups I think I’d want either Meren for advantage that can immediately pressure the board, more Prelates / mages to protect my board, or maybe extra renegade ralliers to be able to rebuild quickly.

For slow grindy advantage, I’ve been super happy with Ramunap Excavator (replay Dryad, bounce, pitch to fauna, repeat), and would consider it a staple of the deck right after quirion and scryb.

Has anyone else played with a scrubland instead of the tundra? It seems better for casting deputy of detention and meddling mage (and maybe strix), and t1 trop seems better than t1 bayou to complement the white dual t2.

[pettdan]

Hey Rodney, I suppose, great to have you here! I hope you'll share some more of your ideas with us, I heard the podcast you were in a while back and it was quite nice listening to.


What matchup would you want beast whisperer for?

I don't really want it right now, I think. Drawing cards would be mostly relevant vs decks with a lot of removal, such as Grixis Control and Miracles, but building an overwhelming board presence is relevant vs any fair deck that doesn't win very quickly (like Infect). We got Vizier of the Menagerie which did something similar a while back, and it didn't seem good enough when I tested it briefly, but Beast Whisperer has a more reliable effect.

Actually, I think a more relevant question would be in what version of this deck would you want to play Beast Whisperer? I don't know, I just stated that it's a card we can consider using in some version of the deck. For example, I could see it being relevant in a list with access to a lot of mana. Suppose you play a version with 1 Gaea's Cradle, 1 Knight of the Reliquary and 1 Rofellos, Llanowar Emissary. Perhaps you run mana dorks over Vials, just as a thought experiment, but it's not even needed to consider such a version. This version will ramp very quickly into a lot of mana, and Beast Whisperer becomes a Glimpse of Nature that occupies one slot in your deck but that you can put into play quite reliably. This lets your deck flood the board almost like Elves does, based on only using something like 4 slots. So, this is one example of a version of this deck in which you build synergies that make Beast Whisperer a potential inclusion.


In control matchups I think I’d want either Meren for advantage that can immediately pressure the board, more Prelates / mages to protect my board, or maybe extra renegade ralliers to be able to rebuild quickly.

For slow grindy advantage, I’ve been super happy with Ramunap Excavator (replay Dryad, bounce, pitch to fauna, repeat), and would consider it a staple of the deck right after quirion and scryb.

For sure, I prefer Meren and yes, Prelates and Mages are great. I don't fully get the part about Ramunap Excavator though, it just seems to me like a very weak version of Meren in this deck. If you run Wasteland and maybe Horizon Canopy, which Cermak does, then it looks good. I've been toying with the idea of a list with Tracker, Excavator, KotR, Safekeeper and Titania (maybe Azusa too) but that's also a special case.

Using Ramunap Excavator with Scryb Ranger and Dryad Arbor and Fauna Shaman just lets you do a small part of what Meren already does. I'll make the comparison, there are a few factors to consider, and am interested in hearing your reasoning (I vaguelly recall you played Meren in the sideboard and Ramunap maindeck, if so I'm curious).
- Meren single-handedly returns a card to your hand every turn, while Ramunap Excavator only does this if you also have in play a Ranger, Dryad Arbor (in play or graveyard) and Fauna Shaman. That's already showing how much better Meren is, achieving by itself similar to what Ramunap Excavator does as part of a four card combo (which you, granted, often have in play).
- Meren is better, even in the case that you have assembled Excavator+Arbor+Ranger+Fauna Shaman, because it not only gives you fodder for tutoring up new cards in your deck, with Fauna Shaman in play, it also lets you reuse key creatures of your deck again and again and again. Like when playing vs an artifact based deck, MUD/Painter/Tezzeret/Steel Stompy, here Meren gives you one extra Qasali Pridemage per turn, while Ramunap only gives you a single use per slot in the deck (if you have 2 Qasalis in your list, you can use Ramunap with Scryb+Arbor+Fauna Shaman to destroy two artifacts).
- Meren after a few turns lets you put creatures into play, as you collect experience counters, so you get a free Vial effect. Getting a free vial effect every turn is a pretty huge advantage.
- Meren puts Dryad Arbor into play better than Ramunap Excavator, because it does so without using your land drop. Land drops are important when you're bouncing lands to your hand every turn with a Ranger.
- It's obvious but still, 4 toughness is way better than 3 toughness with Bolt in the format.
- Advantages of Ramunap Excavator: getting you extra lands. This is not so important in a deck that runs well off 1-2 lands thanks to the Rangers utilizing them so well together with mana dorks and Vials, especially because you are usually using your land drop to recover the returned land from a Ranger activation. We'd need Azusa or something to enable extra land drops to use the Excavator's ability well. Unless like I said playing Wasteland, that's always a powerful recursion.
- Advantages of Ramunap Excavator: cheaper to cast. It's only one mana cheaper, it's not that important I think. If you are low on lands, it can be important, but if you are low on land 3 mana isn't that cheap, or 4 with GSZ. On the other hand, if you are low on lands and get a vial into play, then I can see Excavator being quite excellent. I'm not sure how often this would happen though?
- Advantages of Ramunap Excavator: not being a legend. Meren being a legend can be a problem, mostly when facing Karakas. However, one Aether Vial single-handedly negates the Karakas by just putting Meren back into play after they bounce it. I've actually not had a problem using Meren vs Karakas decks, and I think Karakas decks in general are positive matchups.


Has anyone else played with a scrubland instead of the tundra? It seems better for casting deputy of detention and meddling mage (and maybe strix), and t1 trop seems better than t1 bayou to complement the white dual t2.

Maybe Vickas does or did? It's not very common but certainly an option, I don't spend much time considering the mana base although it is very important. It sounds reasonable to me, I'd look at your list and count how often you need double of some colors. I think t1 is usually for Mother or mana, which makes Savannah a fairly common t1 play. I've been considering trying basics too, like Vickas, and even a one of Veteran Explorer to establish a mana base in some matchups. Just an idea, probably not going to happen anytime soon.

[Inkfathom]

Has anyone else played with a scrubland instead of the tundra? It seems better for casting deputy of detention and meddling mage (and maybe strix), and t1 trop seems better than t1 bayou to complement the white dual t2.

It’s interesting you say this, I just played a game where I fetched a trop because I wanted to cast gsz for arbor into brainstorm + fetch. Then I fetched a bayou because I had strix and AT in hand, and it was awkward for a while because I didn’t have black mana. I can’t imagine those kinds of situations being super rare, so a scrubland makes some sense. It does make it harder to cast Orzhov pontiff (and Nissa if you’re still running that), but you need a third mana source to cast it anyway.

[Bedell]

@pettdan, all very good points about Meren being super value. I think it earns a spot over Atraxa (which is great vs lategame delver and burn, but otherwise boring and replaceable by Shalai).

I originally added Ramunap Excavator for additional help vs wasteland / tabernacle, and only later noticed its ability to grind.
In a direct comparison of Ramunap vs Meren, I think 4 mana (gsz for ramunap) is significantly easier than 5 mana (gsz for meren) with 1 land, 1 dork, 1 ranger.
it also allows us to build up our lands so we don't have to untap with ranger every turn, and it should make Brainstorms much better with the extra fetches in hand.

one small point for the Ramunap engine is that it can return a Dryad and get a new creature immediately, while Meren often needs help from a Vial early on.

I let my rental subscription expire so I haven't played this deck on MTGO in a couple months, but I think this would be my hypothetical list (and what i'll be playing at my monday night proxy legacy)

4 verdant catacombs
4 windswept heath
2 savannah
2 tropical island
1 bayou
1 scrubland
1 forest

1 dryad arbor

4 aether vial
3 birds of paradise
3 noble hierarch
3 mother of runes
1 Quirion Ranger
1 scryb ranger
1 ramunap excavator

4 fauna shaman
4 green sun’s zenith
3 brainstorm
1 sylvan library
2 assassin’s trophy

3 sanctum prelate
1 gaddock teeg
1 qasali pridemage
1 renegade rallier
1 knight of autumn
1 orzhov pontiff
1 deputy of detention
1 peacekeeper
1 leovold, emissary of trest
1 merieke ri berit
1 meren of clan nel toth
1 shalai, voice of plenty

———————

2 swords to plowshares
2 meddling mage
2 baleful strix?
1 atraxa, praetors' voice
1 glen elendra archmage
3 faerie macabre
1 containment priest
1 ethersworn canonist

1 extra (stp? second sylvan? nissa? i only have 74 sleeves for the proxy deck lol)

[pettdan]

Edit: how nice to have Inkfathom joining thediscussion too, welcome! Two new posters within 24 hours might be a new record. :)

Thanks for sharing your list, Bedell! That looks good to me. I've also liked Prelate a lot, would be interested in hearing how 3 maindeck work out for you. Actually, I really like any type of comments, discussion, reports et (can't say that too often, I suppose).

Atraxa does seem like a flex slot to me, sometimes she's in, sometimes out. It is a nice way to stabilize vs Eldrazi and Delver decks, gaining life in the face of TNN. But there are other ways to do that too. Shalai seems more powerful, I agree. And yes, Meren too. Merrn can probably even play the role of Atraxa in the matchups where you need her, not as well but still - producing chump blockers, gaining extra life with Knight of Autumn, etc.

As for the sideboard, probably repeating myself here and these comments below are a bit random... But I do think that 1 cmc discard and counterspells are a good way to try to gain some speed when dealing with very fast decks like Belcher, TES, Reanimator. They are also very useful vs Sneak and Show, a hard counter like Invasive Surgery also comes in vs Miracles and Elves. And then there's Cataclysm, which clears planeswalkers and resets opponent's lands while you can usually return your own lands to hand with a Ranger and don't even need more than 1-2 to function properly. It has excellent synergy with the deck, it seems to me [edit: well, not excellent synergy with all creatures in the deck, but this is boardedin vs control decks with planeswalkers and a lot of removal so you're likely to end up with few creatures]. I don't know, sideboarding creatures may be better though.
I would think Strix is too low impact for the sideboard, just my general feeling. You could consider Vengeful Pharoah and Shriekmaw in place of these. Most creatures you want to block-kill with your strixes will also die to these two options, but they are harder for the opponent to play around and have synergy, Pharoah with Fauna Shaman (guaranteeing creature topdecks) and Shriekmaw with Meren. Well, just something to consider, Strix is still a great card.
Atraxa in the sideboard looks fine to me.
As for containment priest and canonist, I've been using probably counterspells and discard in these slots, I think. They are more generally applicable and allow for faster interaction, t1, while also not hurting yourself, both these creatures does hurt your deck a little bit. I don't know, just something to consider. Maybe I should be using these creatures instead.

I think what is needed is to analyze which cards and strategies we are weakest to [edit: this is a natural step for any deck builder, but I mean structured and written, open for discussion]. For example, Ballista can create a mess, I'm considering if I should try to find a preemptive answer for it. That would probably be Phyrexian Revoker, not sure what else. Hmm, Shalai actually does a decent job of answering Ballista... And Meddling Mage. I've considered fast combo decks, especially graveyard based, to be tough matchups so that's why I like to play a few Leylines, a single card that can win such matchups.

Late edit: using Ramunap Excavator to get out of mana problems can probably be really useful, good point, will follow your future testing on this.

[deragun]

I might be a bit too late to make it 3 in 24 hours, but I am also someone new toying around with the deck.

I've been trying a bunch of different things at my weekly for the past few weeks, so I don't have a finalized list yet, but I do have a few questions and observations thus far.

Deputy of Detention is one that I've been maindecking in every iteration, and it really seems to be pulling it's weight. Got a 3 for 1 on symbiotes against elves, he's been vialed in to deal with Merit Lage, taken care of many early big threats, etc. So far the only downside has been when I got into a surprisingly long game against BR Reanimator (having to keep a 5 card, no lander, with Faerie Macabre none-the-less). Deputy ended up getting used on the first threat to make it onto the battlefield, got killed (I trophy the redeployed threat), but then got animated against my 2 bridges that were holding down the fort.

I've been going way off the deep end, and been running a 5 color deck. I'm sure it'll go down to 4 once I'm ready to try tightening up a list, but I really wanted to try Rhythm of the Wild and don't see a way to fully cut black from the deck. To compensate I'm not running any double colored mana cards except for Santum Prelate. I started with more of a focused plan with them (Kitchen Finks and even tried Murderous Redcap to kill behind Peacekeeper) but didn't really see it working out. So I'm down to 2 Rhythm and no persist cuteness. While I'll likely move on and drop red, I am seeing good things out of having it as a 2-of. Got to drop it T2 against Miracles and stick (sadly still lost the game, but it still put in a ton of work), and many times gotten an instant-on Mom, which feels so good. And once I got to live the hasty Merieke dream against UW Stoneblade stealing the mystic that just dropped a Jitte to equip to its self, and was able to keep him off creatures rest of the game. I haven't really seen any scenarios where I got tons of value from a hasty Fauna Shaman though.

Thus far out of something like 6-8 games against wasteland decks, I've only had 1 non-game, so maybe adding the tiny red splash isn't THAT detrimental.


Now for a few questions:

1) I see almost universally in lists posted here Renegade Rallier being run over Eternal Witness. What's the reasoning on this? Revolt means it can occasionally be turned off, it can't get back any of the 3 drop creatures which I have found so far to be the most common desired targets, and it can't get back a Trophy/Counterspell/Discard. Witness also can synergize with Shaman if needed. Is a Shaman/Dork/Teeg/Scooze straight to battlefield still really that much better than the much higher flexibility?

2) I'm sure there's a multitude of different answers that depend on exact matchup/board state, but in general, when you find yourself in a position where you've disrupted a non-combo opponent enough that you want to move into closing the game out quickly, what do you go for? I've had Atraxa not work out a bunch of times so far, so would Meren be better more often? Something else? I keep finding myself in this kind of position and I end up losing to giving them too much time to find a bomb.


Finally, I thought of an interesting synergy that I'm curious if anyone thinks would be worth exploring. Stitcher's Supplier both feeds Scooze and has potential synergy with Loyal Retainers. Loyal Retainers being only usable on your turn means Aether Vial becomes much less necessary and could turn into 4 more creatures to further up the creature count. So the basic idea would be to go for a much more combo gameplan with full sets of Loyal Retainer and Griselbrand, with a back-up fair gameplan of a very large, very quick Scooze (or Splinterfright) which Mom can help push through if needed. Then you could have a semi-transformational sideboard to get away from so much GY dependency with more typical disruptive creatures when needed. Meren and Atraxa could be additional legends for Retainers, but not sure what else would make sense. It's probably a bad reanimator deck, but the viable fair gameplan and ability to switch to non-GY gameplans seems interesting at least.

[pettdan]

I might be a bit too late to make it 3 in 24 hours, but I am also someone new toying around with the deck.

Awesome anyway, welcome Deragun!


Deputy of Detention is one that I've been maindecking in every iteration, and it really seems to be pulling it's weight. Got a 3 for 1 on symbiotes against elves, he's been vialed in to deal with Merit Lage, taken care of many early big threats, etc. So far the only downside has been when I got into a surprisingly long game against BR Reanimator (having to keep a 5 card, no lander, with Faerie Macabre none-the-less). Deputy ended up getting used on the first threat to make it onto the battlefield, got killed (I trophy the redeployed threat), but then got animated against my 2 bridges that were holding down the fort.

That's very good input, I think we've all been curious about Deputy but I didn't try it yet (since I tested Aluren, and with Aluren in play you just want to win and don't usually care much about permanents). I can see it being great, but will try it. Do you feel like you want more than one? Ah, you play bridges, you know with Peacekeeper you could protect it if there was a Mother around. Whatever, reanimator will occasionally be able to do those kind of things.


I've been going way off the deep end, and been running a 5 color deck. I'm sure it'll go down to 4 once I'm ready to try tightening up a list, but I really wanted to try Rhythm of the Wild and don't see a way to fully cut black from the deck. To compensate I'm not running any double colored mana cards except for Santum Prelate. I started with more of a focused plan with them (Kitchen Finks and even tried Murderous Redcap to kill behind Peacekeeper) but didn't really see it working out. So I'm down to 2 Rhythm and no persist cuteness. While I'll likely move on and drop red, I am seeing good things out of having it as a 2-of. Got to drop it T2 against Miracles and stick (sadly still lost the game, but it still put in a ton of work), and many times gotten an instant-on Mom, which feels so good. And once I got to live the hasty Merieke dream against UW Stoneblade stealing the mystic that just dropped a Jitte to equip to its self, and was able to keep him off creatures rest of the game. I haven't really seen any scenarios where I got tons of value from a hasty Fauna Shaman though.

Thus far out of something like 6-8 games against wasteland decks, I've only had 1 non-game, so maybe adding the tiny red splash isn't THAT detrimental.

Very interesting, yeah a couple of us were considering the persist + Rhythm synergy in the thread as something that might make Rhythm playable. Hasty Mothers should be quite a headache vs control decks, not to mention all other creatures. Seeing that you tried it and had mixed results, we can almost write this one off in the list of tested things. Although there's always the potential to try things again and new combinations of creatures, there may be some creatures you or we didn't think of yet that benefit a lot from haste (or a +1/+1 counter). When it comes to 5 color lists, I ran 5 colors for a long time, sometimes still pack a red card in the sideboard, and it usually works quite well. If the red cards are creatures then you get a long way towards casting them reliably with just 4 Vials and 4 BoP's, while non-creatures are more complicated and definitely, I'd say, require the one of Taiga. That Taiga, like for any deck splashing an "extra" color, will sometimes wreck you in a game you could have otherwise won, so I think since we have such absurd variety of options in the 4 colors we usually play, we should settle for that. On the other hand, splashing red cards does hedge vs Blood Moon-blowouts, so that extra greediness isn't all increased risk. Experiments are always fine, in my view, since there is so much potential to explore. If you keep trying it, we'd love to hear how your continued experiments with it work out.


Now for a few questions:
Ok, I'll try to answer them, and of course anyone is welcome to chime in (needless to say). I tried to answer quickly to get some work done but this ended up taking the time I had, sorry if it's a bit unstructured.


1) I see almost universally in lists posted here Renegade Rallier being run over Eternal Witness. What's the reasoning on this? Revolt means it can occasionally be turned off, it can't get back any of the 3 drop creatures which I have found so far to be the most common desired targets, and it can't get back a Trophy/Counterspell/Discard. Witness also can synergize with Shaman if needed. Is a Shaman/Dork/Teeg/Scooze straight to battlefield still really that much better than the much higher flexibility?

It's possible that the Witness is better, I think it depends on how many cards you have that you want to use it with. Normally, Meren gets all creatures back, in my experience she does that quite consistently, so the extra slot is mostly for bringing back other cards [edit: although bringing back an answered Meren is a thing]. I look at my list and consider which powerful permanents I may want to get back, could be Aluren (I played Witness last week with it), Sword of L&S, Choke in the sideboard, Engineered Plague, Ensnaring Bridge.. The more of these you play, and the more game-winning they are, the better suited Witness is. I think most lists run very few of these. Like you say, removal, discard and counterspells are also a thing. Or, things rather..

What's speaking for Rallier, I think, allthough I have limited experience with it, is that it can help build tempo for free. We can usually build a lot of tempo by accelerating things out with mana dorks and Vial, and this is a card that improves that strategy. It's also a 3/2 vs the 2/1 of Witness, and with the exalted triggers we have that can build up. If the opponent is playing a removal heavy control deck, getting two creatures into play at EoT can help you put a lot of pressure on them. If the opponent is on a mana denial strategy, getting an extra land drop is pretty good too. So, Rallier helps the deck play a bit more offensively, and responding to aggressive decks. I wouldn't fault anyone for playing Witness over Rallier.

What I normally expect to use Rallier for is getting back Sylvan (vs control decks), Qasali (vs equipment or Chalice decks), Jitte (vs aggressive decks) [edit: Fauna Shaman if answered, at EoT helps increase odds you get to untap with it] or potentially vialling back a hatebear with Rallier as a combo opponent tries to go off after discarding, decaying or in some other way getting rid of whatever hatebear was causing trouble. In most of these scenarios, getting the card back at EoT with Vial is actually a very relevant advantage (or in the middle of a combo opponent going off). Like with Sylvan, you get to use it in your next draw step and the opponent can't counter it. Also with Jitte, putting it into play cheaper means you can equip and use it faster, this can be crucial vs an aggressive deck like burn or delver. So, maybe people prefer Rallier for this more flexible, aggressive and defensive capability. Witness I think is great if you have a couple of cards you know you want to be able to get back as they are answered and that have cmc>2. And if you play a substantial amount of removal, discard and counterspells or such that you know you want to be bringing back, some lists play basically none or very few of these.

Maybe someone else can fill me in here, I don't play Rallier that often.


2) I'm sure there's a multitude of different answers that depend on exact matchup/board state, but in general, when you find yourself in a position where you've disrupted a non-combo opponent enough that you want to move into closing the game out quickly, what do you go for? I've had Atraxa not work out a bunch of times so far, so would Meren be better more often? Something else? I keep finding myself in this kind of position and I end up losing to giving them too much time to find a bomb.

That's a bit hard to say. Usually, if the opponent is on a fair deck, they will have destroyed a few creatures and we may or may not have established board control with Mothers, they have ended up without removal after a couple of turns and you get the spot to get a creature of your choice into play. By getting Meren, you rebuild everything that they destroyed rather quickly. I think just having this growing board state with a lot of creatures is already helping you win the game, you can often swing for maybe 5-6 damage per turn and a Pontiff can sometimes provide 5-10 extra damage by plussing your entire team. Also, if you get some other creature than Meren, then if they answer that creature, you're left with nothing. If they answer Meren, they probably didn't answer the creature(s) you got back with it. I think I sometimes get Glen Elendra first, since she will protect the board state until you get the Meren into play, and then she'll protect the Meren too. If you play Stoneforge and Jitte, then getting Stoneforge to get Jitte and start dominating the board state and life totals is fine too. There's nothing that finishes a creature based matchup like a Jitte with counters, on either side of the table. Except for I guess in the Kolaghan's Command matchups, but that's usually more a spell based deck than a creature based.

What else can be used to finish the game, some have tried Saskia the Unyielding, she strikes hard, but most people drop her. You don't really need a dedicated beater, but lifelink helps a lot vs aggressive decks. Atraxa used to be a Rhox War Monk, illustrating how lifelink is what's needed in that spot. I like Sword of L&S to gain life, deal extra damage and gain card advantage all at the same time, both offense and defense. I've also liked Shaman of the Great Hunt a lot, though sadly skipping it due to being red lately. This card also works both offensively and defensively, a 4 power haste creature is great at racing most things, by building +1/+1 counters on your team it deals exponentially increasing damage [edit: nope, sorry, just linear increase] which is great for racing, and the counters protect against -x/-x effects, it also draws you extra cards while racing. There are probably a dozen other cards worth mentioning. You can also check the primer for some ideas of finishers. Hmm, if you have Merieke, that's great too. She clears your opponent's side of the table, which is great defense, and as a bonus you get all those creatures, or some of them, for your offense. That's quite the finisher!

Edit: there are probably a lot of matchup dependent scenaros. Vs blue fair decks, if you have an active mother, then it's tempting to get Leovold to shut off their cantripd. Vs Elves, you may want Gaddock or Leovold to make sure they don't go off. Hmm..


Finally, I thought of an interesting synergy that I'm curious if anyone thinks would be worth exploring. Stitcher's Supplier both feeds Scooze and has potential synergy with Loyal Retainers. Loyal Retainers being only usable on your turn means Aether Vial becomes much less necessary and could turn into 4 more creatures to further up the creature count. So the basic idea would be to go for a much more combo gameplan with full sets of Loyal Retainer and Griselbrand, with a back-up fair gameplan of a very large, very quick Scooze (or Splinterfright) which Mom can help push through if needed. Then you could have a semi-transformational sideboard to get away from so much GY dependency with more typical disruptive creatures when needed. Meren and Atraxa could be additional legends for Retainers, but not sure what else would make sense. It's probably a bad reanimator deck, but the viable fair gameplan and ability to switch to non-GY gameplans seems interesting at least.

You can try it for sure, and I think Vickas has more experience with this type of strategy, maybe he can fill me in (I think he may be on a MOST hiatus though, he was playing Stasis yesterday). The problem I think with Supplier + Retainers is that you need to play a high density of monsters to be able to hit anything reliablly with the Stitchers effect, and you also need to find a way to sacrifice the Stitcher to get the second mill trigger. Those extra monsters are going to be dead cards in your hand very often. Just putting 1-2 monsters and 1-2 enablers/reanimators in your decklist means you can tutor for them when you need them in many games, to stabilize and win from nowhere, hopefully, but in other games you can brainstorm the 1 dead card you drew away or discard it to Fauna Shaman. I like lists that pack some card that lets you hardcast things too, but that's me. Ticking Vial up to 7-8 does happen too, Vickas talked about Vialing in Elesh Norn recently. [edit: maybe I should consider your argument a bit more here, but one thing to point out is the Vial is a great bonus in the deck, not something I'd want to get rid of, it provides lots of mana and nasty tricks with creatures at instant speed, it's a one mana card that makes your creatures uncounterable, gives them flash and quasi-haste while also generating 3-4 mana per turn]

Well, I hope that was at least some useful input for you! I'll spend some extra time to write shorter next time!

[deragun]

That's very good input, I think we've all been curious about Deputy but I didn't try it yet (since I tested Aluren, and with Aluren in play you just want to win and don't usually care much about permanents). I can see it being great, but will try it. Do you feel like you want more than one?

I've liked it enough that I will likely try 2x of him if/when I drop red, but while running Rhythm I'm not sure there's room for a 2nd. I'll report back with any thoughts/observations once I try it out.



Ah, you play bridges, you know with Peacekeeper you could protect it if there was a Mother around. Whatever, reanimator will occasionally be able to do those kind of things.

It was in my more 'all in' starting point with the persist/rhythm approach, so I was running Peacekeeper MD and 2x bridges in the board, with a plan to turtle up and win with infinite life or infinite damage. Even with the Moms to protect Peacekeeper I couldn't assemble the necessary pieces to close out games quick enough, which is why I moved on from the persist plan. The problem was that in addition to Rhythm/Persist you need a sac outlet as well. I was using Scarland Thrinax as it's the only GSZ-able recurring sac outlet, but then you're still needing to get too many pieces after getting Rhythm/Persist going. But as you said, the hasty Mom is really good, and uncounterable with +1/+1 on other creatures is really good too. I think my next step here will be to try a Stoneforge Mystic along with a Umezawa's Jitte and see how that goes with Rhythm. Rhythm turns on Birds as a good Jitte holder with the +1/+1.




If the red cards are creatures then you get a long way towards casting them reliably with just 4 Vials and 4 BoP's, while non-creatures are more complicated and definitely, I'd say, require the one of Taiga.

I completely agree. I am running the exact setup you describe and am sure it's necessary to support Rhythm.



...So, Rallier helps the deck play a bit more offensively, and responding to aggressive decks. I wouldn't fault anyone for playing Witness over Rallier.

You definitely touched on a few aspects of Rallier that I hadn't quite fully considered. While I am running Rhythm which only Witness can get back, I think I'll try switching to Rallier and see how it goes. The ways it enables a bit more offensive play you discuss should partially help with my 'closing things out' issues.

I think the other thing that will hopefully help in this regard is putting more of a focus on Meren. I had been going with Meren in the board and having Atraxa MD, but I think I'll switch that around. Meren seems like she will solve these issues much better. Also, your comments on closing out strategy vs different deck types here should help me in this regard as well, so while you may think it was rambling, it's all valuable commentary to me. And I like the idea of better utilizing the existing creatures than cutting one for a specific finisher.

So with all of this factored in, here's roughly what I'm going to try out next week:

[Non-Creature]
4 Aether Vial
1 Mirri's Guile
1 Sylvan Library
1 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Assassin's Trophy
2 Rhythm of the Wild
3 Green Sun's Zenith

[Creature]
1 Meren of Clan Nel Toth
1 Shalai, Voice of Plenty
1 Leovold, Emissary of Trest
1 Orzhov Pontiff
1 Deputy of Detention
1 Knight of Autumn
1 Renegade Rallier
1 Spell Queller
1 Merieke Ri Berit
1 Sanctum Prelate
1 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Scavenging Ooze
4 Fauna Shaman
4 Birds of Paradise
3 Noble Hierarch
4 Mother of Runes
1 Scryb Ranger
1 Quirion Ranger
1 Dryad Arbor

[Land]
1 Forest
1 Misty Rainforest
3 Wooded Foothills
3 Windswept Heath
1 Taiga
1 Bayou
3 Savannah *Ideally 2 savannah and 2 bayou, but I only own 1 bayou for now
2 Tropical Island

[Sideboard]
1 Atraxa, Preators' Voice
1 Glen Elendra Archmage
1 Izzet Staticaster
1 Peacekeeper
1 Sanctum Prelate
1 Magus of the Moon
1 Meddling Mage
1 Gilded Drake
3 Faerie Macabre
4 TBD




You can try it for sure, and I think Vickas has more experience with this type of strategy, maybe he can fill me in (I think he may be on a MOST hiatus though, he was playing Stasis yesterday). The problem I think with Supplier + Retainers is that you need to play a high density of monsters to be able to hit anything reliablly with the Stitchers effect, and you also need to find a way to sacrifice the Stitcher to get the second mill trigger.

I just really like the overlapping synergies of Stitcher with Retainers, Scooze, AND Meren. And that Retainers synergizes with Meren, Griselbrand, and Shalai. I would try using Stitcher as a speed bump to buy you at least 1 turn as a blocker with upside rather than trying to find a sac outlet for him. With 8 legends in the deck, odds of getting 1 into the bin on just the ETB trigger on the play is 45.2% (assuming none in opening hand), so that seems at least somewhat reasonable as a starting point. I'd probably start with 4 Griselbrand, 3 Meren, and 1 Shalai. And with this configuration it's only the 4 Griselbrand that are 'uncastable', while still being the ideal first discard to a Shaman (with smaller potential to get multiple Meren stuck in hand).


...but one thing to point out is the Vial is a great bonus in the deck, not something I'd want to get rid of, it provides lots of mana and nasty tricks with creatures at instant speed, it's a one mana card that makes your creatures uncounterable, gives them flash and quasi-haste while also generating 3-4 mana per turn]

Oh yes in most versions I think that the vials are absolutely worth it. Just given that the most impactful play in the deck (sac-ing retainers) must happen on your turn anyway vial is at least slightly less useful in the lines you'd be playing to.

Also, it seems like a faster start is possible without the vials in this approach. T1 vial means you can't vial in a Retainers until T4, whereas with more dorks you can activate Shaman, drop Griselbrand, and cast Retainers on T3 pretty reliably. And you MIGHT be able to mitigate the uncounterable side of things by running 1-2 caverns...I'm envisioning this as a Gwb deck and a decent # of slots would be human (retainers, meren, hierarch, mom), and many of the others have at least 1 colorless (Scooze, Shaman, Shalai), so it wouldn't be a dead land all that often. So I'd probably start without the vials, and look to add them if they seem necessary.

But for now I'm going to focus on additional iterations of a Rhythm based list. If I theory craft enough to come up with a starting decklist idea for this approach I'll post it though.

[pettdan]

Just have a few small things to add.

An alternative to running Scarland Thrinax as a sacrifice outlet is Varolz, the Scar-Striped. I think it is a more useful card as regenerating it is pretty good, keeping that part of the combo around, and scavenging creatures from your graveyard can probably be very good, both in beefing up your creatures to attack with them (this works without requiring finding any other enabler which gives it a pretty high lowest floor) and in giving you extra counterspells from Glen Elendra Archmage.

Regarding the comment about casting red cards, I was a bit unclear but probably you interpreted it correctly anyway, just want to avoid having anyone reading it misinterpret it. I think the Taiga may be needed if you have a couple of red creatures in the maindeck, it's mostly the one of Keranos or Magus of the Moon in the Board that I think may be fine without a Taiga, perhaps. I've usually had Carpet of Flowers in the sideboard, which helps with mana fixing vs blue control decks that usually can't get rid of it very easily, and that's typically when you want the Keranos. Also, Vialling Keranos in in this matchup makes it uncounterable which is much better than hardcasting it which is likely to meet some kind of counterspell.

I'm not sure if Ralliers is going to help you that much in playing more offensively, well, you'll just have to try it. It's a small step in that direction though.

Meren is great, but I'm not sure how much you'll need 3 of them, it seems unnecessarily clunky. I'm going to guess that you'll reduce the number to 2 copies after the first attempt, but again, only testing can tell. :) It's a good card and you're trying a unique approach, so go for it.

Btw, Splinterfright was a very cool new find.

There may be room to try Cavern, but I instinctively think it limits the mana base too much. I'd prefer a basic or the non-green dual that many seem to like. But focusing on Loyal Retainers I can see that you would want a few Caverns, I'm guessing you need to skip Brainstorm then and try to use more humans (which you mentioned, also you don't currently play Brainstorms so that will be easy). Casting Sanctum Prelate using a Cavern can be pretty good too, I suppose.


Also, it seems like a faster start is possible without the vials in this approach. T1 vial means you can't vial in a Retainers until T4, whereas with more dorks you can activate Shaman, drop Griselbrand, and cast Retainers on T3 pretty reliably. And you MIGHT be able to mitigate the uncounterable side of things by running 1-2 caverns...

Actually, I think this may be an approach that just maybe could give you some trouble. If you play out t1 manadork, t2 GSZ for Fauna Shaman, or just t2 cast Fauna Shaman, then the opponent is almost certainly going to have removal for your Fauna Shaman. If you go t1 Mother, you pressure the opponent to have removal, but you won't be able to GSZ for Fauna Shaman on t2 so probably you're not getting Loyal Retainers into play until t4 anyway. While if you go t1 Vial, then even if it's slower, your opponent will be more hard pressed to have removal available and mana up at the end of your t2 (will there be a Mother coming in?) and t2; if they don't keep mana up on t3, you might have an active Fauna shaman on your turn 4 and a Vial with 3 counters, meaning a discard effect into an uncounterable Retainers. So basically, I'm guessing that the slower approach with Vial will make it more likely that you get to untap with the Fauna Shaman and put the Loyal Retainers into play. However, it's just guessing, testing is all that matters.

[deragun]

An alternative to running Scarland Thrinax as a sacrifice outlet is Varolz, the Scar-Striped. I think it is a more useful card as regenerating it is pretty good, keeping that part of the combo around, and scavenging creatures from your graveyard can probably be very good, both in beefing up your creatures to attack with them (this works without requiring finding any other enabler which gives it a pretty high lowest floor) and in giving you extra counterspells from Glen Elendra Archmage.

Well, looks like I'll have at least 1 more go at the Rhythm/Finks route. I hadn't considered 'another' vs 'a' in my scryfall templating search for sac outlets, and I agree, his floor is good enough to seem somewhat playable. I'll report back once I get my hands on a copy and can try it out.



Meren is great, but I'm not sure how much you'll need 3 of them, it seems unnecessarily clunky. I'm going to guess that you'll reduce the number to 2 copies after the first attempt, but again, only testing can tell. :) It's a good card and you're trying a unique approach, so go for it.

You were spot on there. Just a few rounds of goldfishing was enough to show that 2 would be right (especially because it didn't occur to me how easy it would be to bin a 1-of legend when running suppliers, so I think any legend I can actually cast would have to be a 2-of to ensure I can still shaman it up if I bin one). So my starting point on this idea would be 2 Meren and 2 Shalai. I'll save more commentary on this idea for a retainers heavy version until after I flush out the ideas and actually have a starting decklist.

Overall, I'm having an absolute blast playing the deck, and expect that it will help make me a better player overall with as many lines as you have and how often you end up in win-able, but very complicated scenarios. So far I'm consistently going 1-2 in games where at least one of the 2 losses was either very close or should have been a win except for a punt.

Deputy again, pulled his weight last night. Against a Pox/Mud hybrid brew that I knew played Wurmcoils and Ugins, he was only on 2 land by T4/5 and had run out back to back Grim Monoliths. Felt really nice to take the 2nd one and put it under the Deputy after he put the first (he didn't realize it was detention sphere on it stick). That's how I got my 1 game against him.

Played against Grixis Delver with Pteramander and Light up the Stage. G1 baited out FoW with an accelerated Rhythm but still lost to typical delver things. I was able to play a very controlling G2 for a win with an active shaman (izzet staticaster on 2 pteramanders, detention on a delver, orzhov pontiff on a pyromancer and delver, then close out with atraxa). G3 felt very winnable, but he got to double wasteland me on T3 off of a Light up the Stage. I could have played through 1, but 2 proved insurmountable in that game.

Then I had 2 of the most wild games yet with this deck. Against lands, and he had a natural Tabernacle T2. I had gotten out a vial and hierarch, followed by another vial. I keep one vial on 1 and tick the other up to 3. In the meantime he wastes me off of all but my forest and gets Loam online. However, I'm able to Spell Queller the loam after a turn or two, which puts him into topdeck mode. I proceed to just beat down with the Queller and can't get anything else going. He goes down to 8 and finds a ghost quarter for my forest, leaving me with no lands. But I'd been stocking up on dorks in the meantime. So I get him down to 4 by EOT vialing in a dork, and using it to pay for Queller to keep beating. Get him down to 4 when he finally finds the depths to go with his stage. While not a typical game at all, I was very impressed that I was able to actually do SOMETHING while under a complete wasteland lock for so long.

G2 was one of the most mind numbing games I've played. There were a ton of interesting decision points, but I'll illustrate the end-game as it's where things got the most intense.

His battlefield was: Stage + Depths, Maze of Ith, Tabernacle (and tons of other lands and stuff that didn't matter). I knew he had a punishing fire in hand.

My hand was: Magus of the Moon, Sanctum Prelate, Gilded Drake
My battlefield was: Vial on 2, Mirri's Guile, Scooze, Hierarch, Forest, Taiga, Windswept Heath
My graveyard was: fetches, Faerie Macabre
My top of library was (known due to Guile previous turn): Savannah, Mom

And I was at 21 life at the end of my turn. He EOT makes Merit Lage, swings on his turn, and I go down to 1. The plan on upkeep was to dial vial up to 3, use Scooze eat Faerie to go to 2, sac Scooze to tabernacle, vial in prelate on 2, fetch trop, cast drake, and next turn vial in magus to shut off maze and swing for the win. But I somehow forgot to use scooze before sacing it :-(

But it's games like this that will keep me on this deck. Win or lose, the amount of fun and exciting scenarios can't be beat!

[pettdan]

I had a rough lgs Wednesday yesterday, went 1-3 losing to Moon Stompy twice and Burn while winning vs Grixis Phoenix. In all lost and won games, bad luck on one players part was a major part of the outcome [edit: well vs Moon Stompy this is part of how every game plays out, we have answers, can we find them in time]. Not sure how interesting this is to anyone, but I'll add a few comments.

In the last game vs Phoenix, we both kept greedy hands after mulligans and my opponent just never drew a mana source after the two Wastelands in his starting hand (he had FoW backup). The first two games were more of a struggle back and forth, opponent very barely managed to win the first game by bolting me when I was at 3, forcing me to Fauna Shaman away Strix to get Scavenging Ooze, going up to 4 life then 1 life after Bolt, then dying to his Delver in the attack phase. I had just gotten Meren into play and was starting to create a hard lock on the game state.

Vs burn, in the second game I keep a starting hand with 5 mana sources and continue to draw only mana sources for the rest of the game.

Vs Moon Stompy, which can be rough, one particularly frustrating game was lost to opponent's t1 Spyglass on my two Windswept Heaths in hand, eventually I draw a third land, a Tundra, and play Vial which he topdecks Fiery Confluence for after one turn, following up with Chalice on 1 and a Blood moon giving me Forest as the one out left in my deck. He's the clear winner of the topdeck battl. Even two mixed fetches in the starting hand would have allowed my to play out that game effectively. But I guess it's Moon Stompy's plan to put opponents in these situations. Anyway, I'm considering what to do to help the Moon Stompy matchup. In another game, I'm weak on mana sources but go t1 Forest, BoP, and if it survives to t2 I had a hand that looked very good, of course he goes t1 Chandra and bolts the bird.

Not sure if anything is needed, since t1 Vial solves a lot and t1 fetch for Forest also solves a lot. Whichever lock piece they start with, we have plenty of good follow ups to it, and if we go first they can't even stop it. Like, t1 fetch for forest into Aether Vial invalidates most of their interaction.

I was trying 2 Deputy of Detention today, and he got to clear Phoenixes a couple of times. I never managed to use him vs Moon Stompy but he would have been very good there I'm sure, taking care of troublesome planeswalkers.

[pettdan]

Cermak on stream: http://www.twitch.tv/stockholmmagic
Edit: Cermak's game is over, will be on Twitch for 2 weeks I guess. Was round 5.

[Memories of the Time]

https://i.ibb.co/sqtRCMR/2019-03-21-21-30-16-Magic-The-Gathering-Online.png (https://ibb.co/sqtRCMR)

Two 4-1 on MTGO with this list, losing the last game against UB control only due a mull to 5 at g2 and 5 lands in a row in g3.
Still the deck seems cute, and the good Mu we have against Depths is a strong upside =)

[pettdan]

That's awesome, and quite a lot of spice. Not even a single Fauna Shaman to get Leovold and Titania seems strange but there's GSZ so.. That's a new approach. Nissa working well? How was Yavimaya Hollow?

[JackaBo]

Wow 3 Nissa. How good is she in a deck like this? I always wanted to test here, but never got to it

[Memories of the Time]

Today i would have reached my third 4-1 if i hadn't forgotten to play Magic Arena and not Magic Online when i'm stoned... Two matches lost only for my mistakes =(

@The build: I've many problems myself with my build, it has many synergies and... some problems. Recruiter, Vial, Nissa ecc are cards that require something from your build, and i'm far from an optimized version

@Nissa: this is the only build i would include her, probably. You need many creatures to reliably put somewhat with her 0 ability, and this is a nonbo with one of the major pros of switching Fauna for Recruiter, still hitting Recruiter with his 0 ability is awesome and the deck is made to maximize the possibility of hitting with only 3 Loyal counter (ideally, t2 Nissa would mean a t3 Nissa that starts to put creatures in play at a reasonable rate). You can also doing +2 and just making some good card quality while charging the ultimate, obv.

@Hollow: A nice tech-land, Stronghold has been discarded since it requires black mana. It helps against all non-white decks (beside combo, obvs) and still against d&t it can helps to chumpblock something big.

Dunno how to tweak this build. I was thinking about increasing the number of Jailer so 3-4 cutting Nissa, because Jailer is reallty awesome and very often the topdeck you want, it helps against so many things.

[pettdan]

Cermak on stream again, round one of the MKM Ghent qualifier:

http://www.twitch.tv/stockholmmagic

So this is actually JackaBo vs Cermak for anyone interested.. :)

Looks like it'll be over quick.. 1 land hand with Vial meets Pithing Needle and Wasteland.

[aedemiel]

Cermak on stream again, round one of the MKM Ghent qualifier:

http://www.twitch.tv/stockholmmagic

So this is actually JackaBo vs Cermak for anyone interested.. :)

Lookslike it'll be over quick..

That was a fast game...

[pettdan]

That was a fast game...

Ah yeah, if I see him on camera again I'll post a message about it.


Edit: tried merging messages, wasn't very successfull...

Cermak back on stream! Edit: ... and done. This game was vs UB Shadow.

@Memories: going heavy on Jailers is another interesting approach.. Couldn't think of much useful input for you yet, maybe someone else can.

[pettdan]

Had a fun tournament this weekend where I 3-0'd (6-1 in games) with a land focused version using Excavator, Azusa, Kotr, Tracker, Titania. I won 2-0 over Enchantress (very good matchup, Leovold is absurd here), 2-1 over BR Reanimator (good topdecks), and 2-0 over 4c (5c?) Loam with blue, IIRC, he didn't draw very well there (no Toxic Deluge, no t1 Mox Diamonds, always t2 Chalice when it's too late).

I had the idea to make a budget version with 4 Death's Shadow. I think going Vial, Mother, Shadow would be pretty good. This is close to what I've been suggesting for Modern. Scryb Rangers let you lose however much life you want to the painlands, also Sylvan Library is pretty good with Shadow. And then a Varolz for backup combo-possibility, scavenging Shadows. And maybe 4 Sanctum Prelates to shut of control and combo. We'll see. It could be very budget and maybe good.

Very curious to hear if Deragun has continued playing, any news for us (me)? And Bedell? Inkfathom? We have a new local player building the deck, he's all about the loyal retainers, I think..

[deragun]

Very curious to hear if Deragun has continued playing, any news for us (me)? And Bedell? Inkfathom? We have a new local player building the deck, he's all about the loyal retainers, I think..

I have continued playing. I've dropped the 5 color Rhythm idea, it did have some pretty cool plays at times, but just didn't seem worth it in the long run. I briefly tried something with Stitcher's Supplier, Splinterfright, Varolz, etc with multiples of Griselbrand/Loyal Retainers, but quickly saw that it was in fact, not very good :-) However, I do think there's something powerful there with a high creature count deck and Supplier/Splinterfright. Splinterfright can go from a 2/2 when played to attacking for 5+ (trample) between his upkeep trigger and dropping a supplier pre-combat. So I'm still brewing around with the idea, but I think it'll be a pretty different deck if it ends up working out. I'm close to settling on a first decklist based on this idea, but I'm not sure it would fall under the MOST umbrella (no Fauna Shaman, no vial, black heavy). Let me know if you'd like me to post it here anyway.

For most of the past month, I've been on a version with just the singleton Retainers/Griselbrand. Also with 2 MD Prelates which I've not tried before. The general idea being universal answers and cards that help advance the Retainers/Griselbrand plan. I'm liking it, but still getting a feel for it (and really getting a feel for how to better play MOST in general...it's a hard deck!). I am VERY consistently going 1-2 with at least 1 of the losses being pretty close, and getting the occasional win. Got my first Sneak & Show 'stolen' win off of Gilded Drake last Tues, which felt very nice :-)