[Deck] Strawberry Shortcake [Archive] - Page 5

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Kap'n Cook

03-31-2020, 01:56 PM

3/31 Challenge Replay with Commentary.

Lots of punts in the ANT matchup on both sides, definitely should have won game 3 but oh well.

Round 8 had some crazy spots that we spent a lot of time talking about.

24/159 to finish it with a 5-3, losing three straight win and ins

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/579514501

Alex_UNLIMITED

04-27-2020, 05:38 PM

I want to try this decklist after the Lurrus ban. It's Painter with Jegantha as a companion, that's a "free" companion because doesn't changes nothing to the original decklist. Reaper King is in the sideboard in order to get rid of lock pieces and have another big creature if I want an "aggro" plan. I know that someone preferes Golos, Tireless Pilgrim but it's too mana intensive even with Jegantha in play and it doesn't help so much against lock pieces or big creatures. Casting 3 cards without knowing what we will get doesn't seem good for 7 mana. Reaper King is "free" with Jegantha in play, and you can use the mana left to play a 2/4 Painter, even after searching it with Recruiter in the same turn. You can also use Welder to destroy permanents each turn with Reaper King in play. You can also cast it if you have enough mana. Those are late game situation if you suffer a "soft lock" or a "stalemate" circumstance, and adds more flexibility to the deck, in order to adapt better.
4x Lightning Bolt in the maindeck because they fit better with the Jegantha "aggro" plan and they are great against powerful cards like Dreadhorde Arcanist that sees play in some delver decks.
Total count of lands: 20.

4 Ancient Tomb
1 Arid Mesa
1 Bloodstained Mire
3 City of Traitors
2 Great Furnace
4 Mountain
2 Plateau
1 Scalding Tarn
2 Wooded Foothills
1 Ethersworn Canonist
3 Goblin Engineer
3 Goblin Welder
4 Imperial Recruiter
3 Painter's Servant
1 Simian Spirit Guide
3 Enlightened Tutor
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Pyroblast
1 Red Elemental Blast
1 Blood Moon
1 Ensnaring Bridge
3 Grindstone
4 Karn, the Great Creator
1 Lion's Eye Diamond
3 Lotus Petal

Sideboard:
1 Deafening Silence
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Soul-Guide Lantern
1 Grindstone
1 Jegantha, the Wellspring
1 Mycosynth Lattice
1 Painter's Servant
1 Pithing Needle
1 Reaper King
1 Red Elemental Blast
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Walking Ballista

Edit: Soul-Guide Lantern takes the place of Faerie Macabre, in order to have Jegantha as a companion in every game.

jake556

07-12-2020, 08:11 PM

Damn I have a ton to catch up on haha

Cyrus

08-05-2020, 08:25 PM

Damn I have a ton to catch up on haha

We all do, Jake

joaquin

08-23-2020, 11:32 PM

Hey so I know this is a dedicated thread for the shortcake variation, but I figured it's also the most active of the painter threads. I'm thinking of picking up some badlands for one of my decks and I've always wanted to build painter. Been following all the threads and watching content for a long time now. How do you guys feel about the red black variant with Daretti? Not having access to canonist would be kind of a shame, but daretti is pretty sweet in his own way.

Thoughts?

schweinefettmann

10-09-2020, 03:35 PM

Rb daretti is good. Very good in control games, just for grinding.
I’m not sure this place is nearly as active as it once was though; if you’re not on the discord, my suggestion is to go on there!

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Kap'n Cook

02-22-2021, 08:31 PM

Yea so lots has happened. Pretty much haven’t bothered playing or posting much in the companion breach wrenn bs metagame not even counting our new three

Either way we’re back at the top where we never really left but I plan on doing a bunch of updating in the coming weeks trying to revamp the primer and also get out a longer ‘report’ I’ve said I would get to of basically historical painter matchup data I’ve been keeping in excel since 2012, getting close to 2500 matches now

Fallen_Empire

02-25-2021, 09:01 PM

Kap'n Cook

03-07-2021, 09:11 PM

8-1 Saturday challenge for 3rd

10-1 Sunday showcase challenge for 3rd

Report to come :)

oliverpool

03-10-2021, 10:06 PM

8-1 Saturday challenge for 3rd

10-1 Sunday showcase challenge for 3rd

Report to come :)

Anxiously waiting for it!

Kap'n Cook

03-24-2021, 12:32 AM

Enjoy

http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?33510-Source-Wars-Episode-VI-%96-Return-of-the-Weldi

Secretly.A.Bee

04-03-2021, 02:55 PM

Kap'n Cook

04-03-2021, 11:55 PM

I asked on Return of the Weldi, but it's probably better to ask here: Is it not worth the space in a Karn deck to run a Mycosynth Lattice in the board? I understand it turns everything colorless so maybe I'm way off base here, but if it's a timestamp issue, I thought maybe it would be worth it. I'm not arguing for it, I am just curious about why or why not.

Edit: completed the question.

yo saw this too, will paste the reply from the report below. but adding to the color stuff, yea lattice coming will turn off any existing painters and make everything mono brown. also makes red blasts completely dead cards. new painters will overwrite everything into only the new named color, so pure blue tarmogoyfs (that's my current understanding of the rules so could be wrong but hopefully not)

It's an interesting Flex spot for the board and a lot of people run it. The secondary related card others run too is Liquimetal Coating.

I was running a Lattice for a while when Karn first came out, but after seeing how a lot of games played out, I decided to lean less on Karn and take out the specific cards related to him. We don't really have the explosiveness of decks like Bomberman or Urza Echo with the set of LEDs to really go turbo lattice, so a lot of times I'd play Karn into a board where he likely wouldn't live, and when that's the likely case having a wincon that depends on him living felt like a wasted slot. Lattice lock is probably best against control decks and stuff like lands, which should normally be good matchups. I also have been building more towards overall utility rather so I could fit in things like more surgicals, but that's just me right now and having a Karn specific card is always appealing

Secretly.A.Bee

04-04-2021, 08:16 PM

yo saw this too, will paste the reply from the report below. but adding to the color stuff, yea lattice coming will turn off any existing painters and make everything mono brown. also makes red blasts completely dead cards. new painters will overwrite everything into only the new named color, so pure blue tarmogoyfs (that's my current understanding of the rules so could be wrong but hopefully not)

It's an interesting Flex spot for the board and a lot of people run it. The secondary related card others run too is Liquimetal Coating.

I was running a Lattice for a while when Karn first came out, but after seeing how a lot of games played out, I decided to lean less on Karn and take out the specific cards related to him. We don't really have the explosiveness of decks like Bomberman or Urza Echo with the set of LEDs to really go turbo lattice, so a lot of times I'd play Karn into a board where he likely wouldn't live, and when that's the likely case having a wincon that depends on him living felt like a wasted slot. Lattice lock is probably best against control decks and stuff like lands, which should normally be good matchups. I also have been building more towards overall utility rather so I could fit in things like more surgicals, but that's just me right now and having a Karn specific card is always appealingThanks for the explanation. I'm just looking for a spot to play my JPN signed Lattice and was hoping it was here. Alas; my search continues.

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Kap'n Cook

04-05-2021, 10:15 AM

Thanks for the explanation. I'm just looking for a spot to play my JPN signed Lattice and was hoping it was here. Alas; my search continues.

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Don’t get me wrong, Lattice is an extremely powerful angle to have access to in the deck and not having it does force you to play differently. it’s definitely within the 76th-80th card for my board, and at the end of the day painter is always a good home for random pimp tutor targets.

Secretly.A.Bee

04-05-2021, 03:00 PM

Don’t get me wrong, Lattice is an extremely powerful angle to have access to in the deck and not having it does force you to play differently. it’s definitely within the 76th-80th card for my board, and at the end of the day painter is always a good home for random pimp tutor targets.Okay cool. I'm just a few cheap-ish (bridges and like two other cards) away from playing this deck,so say it was #76 and you wanted to test it out again. Which sb card would you cut for it?

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L10

04-10-2021, 03:20 PM

He mentioned on his report that the two flex tutor slots are Needle and Explosives, so probably start with there.

I play mono red, so my Karn package always includes:
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Grindstone
1 Lion's Eye Diamond
1 Liquimetal Coating
1 Mycosynth Lattice
1 Tormod's Crypt
Liquimetal Coating plays well with the 5 Moon strategy in mono-red by blowing up all the basics and locking people out of the game.
LED -> Mycosynth Lattice also comes up a lot, especially after the opponent spent resources fighting over Blood Moon and Painter/Grindstone combo.
Sometimes, you can just get people by casting Karn -> tutor Lattice -> loot w/ Copter OR discard w/ Jaya -> weld Lattice.
Shortcake does not put as much emphasis on the mana denial strategy, so Liquimetal Coating may not be as vital.

Secretly.A.Bee

04-17-2021, 04:10 PM

Almost done. I'm not going to bend over backwards making it 100% JPN because I already had the LED's and cities before the jump, but happily my Plateaus are German FWB. Anyway, I'm waiting on some JPN signed A25 Bridges, looking for the missing pieces in JPN. Can't wait to give it a go.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210417/1aa3495facb5d10a63a9349743a7b0d4.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210417/373d89f31205634b4e8c2a7a3867e413.jpg

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ceustice

04-19-2021, 03:45 PM

Anyone else find the Esper Vial matchup to be very challenging? It may be I'm rusty with the deck but it did make me miss Martyr of Ashes.

Barook

04-19-2021, 04:12 PM

Has anybody tested Angel of the Ruins yet?

Secretly.A.Bee

04-21-2021, 06:16 PM

Has anybody tested Angel of the Ruins yet?No, but it looks pretty decent, even as a singleton in the board. I've been watching youtube vids and it seems there are often scenarios in which Karn-wish into Angel, cycle angel, weld back is a total hose.

Does anyone have a good suggestion on how to make a minor adjustment or two for playing against Emrakul, the Aeons Torn a lot? I play against SnT a lot and the only game-1 plan is to Karn into Tormod's Crypt and then combo, and then in reaponse to the triggers eat their gy. Is that correct? I know I can stall with Bridge, and lock them out with Lattice if things go longer, but it's pretty rough as far as I can tell. Am I missing something?

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Reeplcheep

04-22-2021, 08:31 AM

Yah mill is inherently weak to emrakul. Other than gy hate the only way to win would be to make them draw a card at instant speed, but I’m not sure if there is a reasonable way to do that (temple bell?)

With 6 pyroblast and md canonist they should have trouble enacting their own game plan though?

Alternatively you can run a bridge, needle, oring or cratermaker main. More spicy is, with how good meddling mage is, and how the best combo decks are a+b right now, maybe nevermore is a reasonable anti combo card?

Fox

04-22-2021, 08:43 AM

Reeplcheep

04-22-2021, 08:55 AM

Would rather save a mana and wish for Sundial before ever submitting Temple Bell; especially if the deck has City of Traitors. It also makes it way safer to go for a Grindstone activation on your turn since you can exile the removal spell and try again later.

Ending the turn as a super stifle/Counterspell does seem nice. Also stops eot brainstorms. That’s a much better suggestion but possibly still not good enough.
The best option is probably to md some gy hate like relic that doesn’t hit your welders.

Secretly.A.Bee

04-24-2021, 03:16 PM

Ending the turn as a super stifle/Counterspell does seem nice. Also stops eot brainstorms. That’s a much better suggestion but possibly still not good enough.
The best option is probably to md some gy hate like relic that doesn’t hit your welders.

But Relic does hit your graveyard...maybe you mean crypt?

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Fox

04-24-2021, 03:24 PM

But Relic does hit your graveyard...maybe you mean crypt?

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If you play Karn it just puts things in the wish zone.

Kap'n Cook

04-24-2021, 08:57 PM

No, but it looks pretty decent, even as a singleton in the board. I've been watching youtube vids and it seems there are often scenarios in which Karn-wish into Angel, cycle angel, weld back is a total hose.

Does anyone have a good suggestion on how to make a minor adjustment or two for playing against Emrakul, the Aeons Torn a lot? I play against SnT a lot and the only game-1 plan is to Karn into Tormod's Crypt and then combo, and then in reaponse to the triggers eat their gy. Is that correct? I know I can stall with Bridge, and lock them out with Lattice if things go longer, but it's pretty rough as far as I can tell. Am I missing something?

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Yea Show and Tell is one of the harder matchups. You're right for the Crypt, you can remove the Emrakuls all at once with their library. Game 1 you can cheese a lot of wins with Ensnaring Bridge if their list doesn't have any maindeck bounce or Cunning Wish, otherwise you are looking to assemble Painter+Canonist with blasts in hands while you either beat down or find a Karn to get a Crypt/Lattice. Postboard I've been taking out all my grindstones and going more beats/control, since a single Karn can wish for Stone and Crypt over two turns

Secretly.A.Bee

04-27-2021, 01:31 AM

If you play Karn it just puts things in the wish zone.And turns off your 6 goblins.

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Fallen_Empire

04-30-2021, 03:47 AM

Ending the turn as a super stifle/Counterspell does seem nice. Also stops eot brainstorms. That’s a much better suggestion but possibly still not good enough.
The best option is probably to md some gy hate like relic that doesn’t hit your welders.

Also stops eot fetching. They won't make that mistake twice.

Secretly.A.Bee

05-07-2021, 10:03 PM

Kap'n Cook

05-10-2021, 08:09 PM

How many Rip Aparts will you guys be playing, and where? I'm looking at 3 in the board in place of the Moons in moon-heavy builds or in place of 3x Bolts in Cap'n's (that looks funny) list, and then dropping bolt #4 for another Karn board item (I'm trying out a walking ballista).

Edit: Idk why I didn't ask, but does Brainstone get a consideration in this deck? Does Diamond Lion, since it is able to be grabbed by Imperial Recruiter? I am still without any real context as far as play lines go, so apologies in advance for anything obvious I miss.

No need to apologize, there's actually a ton of ways to move forward now with all these new printings. I'm just gonna hijack your reply to also rant about my thoughts on new spoilers. I guess I'll just start with what I've been testing:

4 Ancient Tomb
3 City of Traitors
2 Plateau
1 Great Furnace
2 Wooded Foothills
3 Bloodstained Mire
4 Mountain

4 Lotus Petal
1 Simian Spirit Guide
1 Lion's Eye Diamond

4 Imperial Recruiter
4 Painter's Servant
3 Goblin Engineer
3 Goblin Welder
1 Goblin Cratermaker
1 Ethersworn Canonist

3 Grindstone
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Blood Moon

4 Pyroblast
2 Red Elemental Blast

2 Enlightened Tutor
3 Smuggler's Copter
3 Karn, the Great Creator

side:
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Rip Apart
3 Surgical Extraction
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Grindstone
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Great Furnace
1 Magus of the Moon

I started with two rip aparts in the board, replacing what had been a Hedge Mage and an Explosives. The bolts I feel are just too nice against a wide variety of the meta post-board where things like Ouphe pop up. They have been nice killing a couple Sylvan Libraries and doing other Abrade like things, also sniping some downticked Karns which is a huge win to me. I imagine it would be much more appreciated against decks like Show and Tell and Miracle Control, I just haven't run into those matchups as much. For now, I haven't been bringing them in against Rug or Ur Delver, as I don't want to fetch out plateaus there. In other matchups like Dnt and all the Junk variants floating around I have, which led me to put the Great Furnace as a wishable target G1 and option to board in as the 20th land to help out the Rip Apart splash. I like the current list, Delver is just a hard but winnable matchup and the list would have to be altered a bunch to improve it. Mono Red Imperial has always had a better Delver matchup in my opinion compared to splashing colors.

Anyways, I'm really excited to test the new weird land saga Urza's Saga

Urza's Saga
Enchantment Land — Urza’s Saga

(As this Saga enters and after your draw step, add a lore counter. Sacrifice after III.)

I — Urza’s Saga gains “{T}: Add {C}.”

II — Urza’s Saga gains “{2}, {T}: Create a 0/0 colorless Construct artifact creature token with ‘This creature gets +1/+1 for each artifact you control.’”

III — Search your library for an artifact card with mana cost {0} or {1}, put it onto the battlefield, then shuffle.

This thing is effectively a half land, a problem I've had with the deck for a long time. I've always liked 19 lands, as it's the leanest it can reasonably go. 20 has always seemed flood prone, but appreciated in some land denial matchups. This is basically the middle, plus it tacks on stuff like make crewable weldable beaters for two turns off a sol land, then go tutor Grindstone, Lotus Petal, Lion's Eye Diamond straight to play, or sideboard cards like Crypt. We can also Enlightened Tutor this, which in my mind is the missing value E-tutor card we've wanted.

For Diamond Lion, since he can be found by all our tutors (E-tutor, Recruiter, Engineer, Karn) there's strong arguments to having a copy somewhere in the 75. He crews and beats, which can't be forgotten either. The issue becomes space, and my mind went to a Lotus Petal, but that's the spot Urza's Saga would take. Also, Diamond Lion is different enough than LED in shortcake that it can't really replace it. Maybe it's another petal, but then white mana and weldable cheap targets becomes weird. Monkey is likely the swap in this case, otherwise shaving down to 5 blasts or 5 goblins.

Brainstone is actually pretty cool, but would need to be worked around as an engine card. I don't really see space for it especially at 3 total mana but I am curious to hear about others thoughts

To your point about a Karn board item, Walking Ballista is always a good option, as it can also be boarded in against stuff like DnT for a recruitable bomb. The new Portable Hole is I think a real consideration, where though I'm not sure. There's arguments for a copy main and side at minimum, and that this card is much better than I realize. For starters, an Engineerable or Etutorable maindeck answer to stuff like Ouphe or even removing a Goyf, and then on top having the same answer available to Karn in the board. Also from reading around it appears we can't abuse this thing with our goblins like an Oblivion Ring, it would just be reset back and forth

Portable Hole (W)

Artifact

When Portable Hole enters the battlefield, exile target nonland permanent an opponent controls with Mana Value 2 or less until Portable Hole leaves the battlefield.

I'm planning to test this:

4 Ancient Tomb
3 City of Traitors
2 Plateau
1 Great Furnace
2 Wooded Foothills
3 Bloodstained Mire
4 Mountain

1 Urza's Saga

3 Lotus Petal
1 Lion's Eye Diamond
1 Diamond Lion
1 Simian Spirit Guide

4 Imperial Recruiter
4 Painter's Servant
3 Goblin Engineer
3 Goblin Welder
1 Goblin Cratermaker
1 Ethersworn Canonist

3 Grindstone
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Blood Moon

4 Pyroblast
1 Red Elemental Blast

2 Enlightened Tutor
3 Smuggler's Copter
3 Karn, the Great Creator

side:
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Rip Apart
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Lotus Petal
1 Grindstone
1 Portable Hole
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Magus of the Moon

I don't know where I'll settle but I like the look of that one to start. I'll likely be testing a bunch all summer and posting updates.

Secretly.A.Bee

05-12-2021, 04:12 PM

Do you think the sorcery speed of Rip Apart is a problem? Are Abrades just sub-par now?

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Kap'n Cook

05-12-2021, 09:21 PM

Do you think the sorcery speed of Rip Apart is a problem? Are Abrades just sub-par now?

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Honestly they’re so new I don’t think any conclusions can really be drawn yet. Rip apart is definitely worse against delver I don’t think anyone can argue that. In theory rip apart is better overall and I like how it helps some of our harder matchups like sneak/omni as well as a big one in my mind killing counterbalance, even if the card is underplayed right now. This kinda goes with my larger meta theory that uw control always takes a while to adjust to new meta games, although at some point it gets figured out. there are enough random walkers running around too that I think rip apart will be good, and any answers to karn are always big

Airwave

05-30-2021, 12:38 PM

I'm starting with this deck as well, great reading so far, thanks all! As a former MUD player I'd advise tot use different kinds of fetchlands. Sorcerous Spyglass turn 1 revealing 3 of the same fetchland is a thing. Rare, but it happens !

Kap'n Cook

06-07-2021, 01:12 AM

Reeplcheep

06-07-2021, 09:14 AM

Urza’s saga is bananas in general; seems even better in a deck that can get grindstone. Could more copies be better than engineer?

Kap'n Cook

06-08-2021, 12:40 AM

Urza’s saga is bananas in general; seems even better in a deck that can get grindstone. Could more copies be better than engineer?

Engineer helps hold the deck together with finding Bridge and Canonist. The entomb is extremely important. I'm trying a third copy over the third City of Traitors for a bit. The deck is slower per se, but it's a logical swap to try as City gets worse when some of the lands played previously blow themselves up.

The larger balancing issue I'm finding is that I've always played 19 lands. Saga is a half land, but still counts as the full land drop. Having 21 lands I've noticed I've been consistently hitting drops, so I don't think 22 is where I want to be. Just about finding the right split and seeing if the colors and mana aren't hindered

Grizzlenasty

06-17-2021, 12:35 AM

Hey, can anyone give me some reasoning, why most people play all 4 Painters main instead of one in the side to wish up with Karn? Picked the deck up right before the companion errata and copied one of the Jegantha builds with one Painter in the side, 0 Smuggler's Copters and 4 Bolt Main. Due to Covid I obviously haven't played it that much besides with some friends but I've always liked the Karnable Painter. Is there strong reason against that?

FTW

06-17-2021, 07:59 AM

Pyroblasts and 1/3 body (blocks Ragavan, crews Copter) means Painter is useful outside the combo, while Grindstone is pretty much useless outside the combo. So they would prefer to hide a Grindstone in the Karnboard, but are happy to see natural Painters early. Recruiter also means there are already enough tutors for Painter without Karn. Grindstone is harder to find.

schweinefettmann

06-17-2021, 03:17 PM

Also, karn wish painter is 6 mana, which is kinda nutty. It’s not a big mana deck, so having 4 main is easier to naturally find.

I was on your side too a while back, but having tested both versions, I came down to the side of having 4 main being generally better to my style of playing.

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Grizzlenasty

06-17-2021, 08:42 PM

I see... makes sense. Think I will shift the 4th Painter to main aswell and see if I like. I'm always a bit reluctant when it comes to change, so yesterday was the first time I played the deck with the 4 Bolts in side instead of main and the first time actually trying out the copters.
They were a blast. Totally underestimated that card. That was another change I should've made earlier. Guess the maindeck Bolts were primarily for fighting Arcanist. If this holds truth when Ragavan hits paper - Time will tell.

I think I liked the wishable Painter so much, because I'm usually a control player and as the deck has some nice prison elements, I've always leaned towards locking the game up first and then going for the 100% sure kill. That way having 6 plus mana was seldomly a problem, sitting there with multiple weldereffects, moon and bridge with an opponent basically unable to intervene with what I'm about to do. Often not even going for the Painter right away with Karn but rather looking for some more shenanigans.
I'm simply lacking the predatory comboplayer skills to see my turn two or three "go for it" window after all the Counterbalances I've hidden behind :D

Part of what I like most about the deck are the sheer resilience, amount of shenanigans and the load of routes that are unforeseeable for the opponent. It's just the kind of deck that makes me smirk from one ear to another while constantly feeling like I've next leveled my opponent into oblivion. Friggin' awesome deck.

Thx for the answers.

Edit.. also I liked the added flexibility of wishable Painter..

Davek

06-20-2021, 05:08 AM

Wanted to give a quick Modern Horizons 2 update. List first:

4 Ancient Tomb
3 City of Traitors
3 Bloodstained Mire
2 Wooded Foothills
4 Mountain
2 Plateau
1 Great Furnace

2 Urza's Saga
3 Lotus Petal
1 Lion's Eye Diamond
1 Simian Spirit Guide

4 Imperial Recruiter
4 Painter's Servant
3 Goblin Engineer
3 Goblin Welder
1 Goblin Cratermaker
1 Ethersworn Canonist

3 Grindstone
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Blood Moon

4 Pyroblast
4 Lightning Bolt

2 Enlightened Tutor
3 Karn, the Great Creator

side:

1 Lotus Petal
1 Grindstone
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Walking Ballista
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Ensnaring Bridge
3 Surgical Extraction
1 Tormod's Crypt
2 Red Elemental Blast
2 Rip Apart
1 Magus of the Moon

Saga is crazy good. I quickly went up to two copies after trying the first. They quickly snowball, and the uncounterable beaters/welder fodder plus LED/Petal/Stone and sideboard Crypt is amazing. Saga plus Painter is also an easy turn 3 win. I have aspirations of a third but need a lot more testing to see what sticks out.

The four bolts are a concession to Ragavan and UR delver, which appears to be the new deck of choice. We line up well, being able to block and play bolts and blast the new dragon, but it's still a very tough matchup. Saga helps here too providing more mana around Daze, and so far every time I've gotten Wastelanded, it's always been the Saga over Plateau/Sol land. Pressure off our Tombs is actually huge. I've been regularly e-tutoring for a Saga to hit my land drop and to just provide insane value over three turns.

The EE and Ballista are quick flex spots for 1 drop delver and whatever else, one of those spots will 100% be Portable hole. There are a lot of other moving pieces with the metagame right now that a lot could change, but this is where I'm starting

Since you seem to be one of the most successful players with this deck, I tested this list as well for something like a 100 or so games. Here are my notes:

1 - Mycosynth Lattice deserves a sb slot: upping the land count allows you to consistently play it much easily. Against control decks you can drop Karn, -2 to get and play Petal, then if you have another mana source in hand you're capable of slamming Lattice into play the very next turn. I like the idea of Karn not just being an oversized tutor engine but also a real threat, capable of winning in spite of a Pithing Needle that's naming Grindstone.

2 - The aggro plan is weaker than ever: while Sagas are nuts indeed, very few games ended with me winning through beats (actually, they are 3, one against Standstill, one against U/B shadow, and one against Bant Control). I feel that from here we have two routes: upgrading the aggro plan or going all-in for the combo. If we want to keep the pseudo-aggro alternative plan i feel we should add Smuggler's Copter to the mix again. This would also make Recruiter better again, since more often than not they sit in play doing absolutely nothing and i've been tempted to swap the 4th Recruiter for the 4th Goblin Engineer. If we want to abandon the aggro plan, then i feel we could probably go heavier on white, cut the Bolts and substitute then with Swords to Plowshares. This would give us more defense against decks like shadow, Thespian-Depths combo, and even reanimator, but it would make the manabase more fragile than now.

3 - Rip Apart's not very performing: maybe it's me and i've been unfortunate with pairings but the enchantment issues seem so rare that i'm not sure they are worth their sb slots. Abdrade looks better in so many situations, first of all because i'm happy to side it against the rampant UR delver, while i'm not so enthusiastic to do so with Rip Apart due to color requirements

4 - Is Meekstone worth a sb slot?: I'm not sure with this but it's a good artifact fetchable with Saga as a sort of 2-class Ensnaring Bridge. I tried it and it shone in some occasions

Please let me know what you think, the real-life 180 men tournament is approaching (next week) and i'm willing to give this a spin!

Kap'n Cook

06-20-2021, 08:46 PM

Since you seem to be one of the most successful players with this deck, I tested this list as well for something like a 100 or so games. Here are my notes:

1 - Mycosynth Lattice deserves a sb slot: upping the land count allows you to consistently play it much easily. Against control decks you can drop Karn, -2 to get and play Petal, then if you have another mana source in hand you're capable of slamming Lattice into play the very next turn. I like the idea of Karn not just being an oversized tutor engine but also a real threat, capable of winning in spite of a Pithing Needle that's naming Grindstone.

2 - The aggro plan is weaker than ever: while Sagas are nuts indeed, very few games ended with me winning through beats (actually, they are 3, one against Standstill, one against U/B shadow, and one against Bant Control). I feel that from here we have two routes: upgrading the aggro plan or going all-in for the combo. If we want to keep the pseudo-aggro alternative plan i feel we should add Smuggler's Copter to the mix again. This would also make Recruiter better again, since more often than not they sit in play doing absolutely nothing and i've been tempted to swap the 4th Recruiter for the 4th Goblin Engineer. If we want to abandon the aggro plan, then i feel we could probably go heavier on white, cut the Bolts and substitute then with Swords to Plowshares. This would give us more defense against decks like shadow, Thespian-Depths combo, and even reanimator, but it would make the manabase more fragile than now.

3 - Rip Apart's not very performing: maybe it's me and i've been unfortunate with pairings but the enchantment issues seem so rare that i'm not sure they are worth their sb slots. Abdrade looks better in so many situations, first of all because i'm happy to side it against the rampant UR delver, while i'm not so enthusiastic to do so with Rip Apart due to color requirements

4 - Is Meekstone worth a sb slot?: I'm not sure with this but it's a good artifact fetchable with Saga as a sort of 2-class Ensnaring Bridge. I tried it and it shone in some occasions

Please let me know what you think, the real-life 180 men tournament is approaching (next week) and i'm willing to give this a spin!

You bring up some interesting points, I think the meta in general has already evolved from where we were two weeks ago when everyone was overreacting to UR delver and calling for bannings. For some data, my first 38 mh2 matches were a 53% win rate, with the next 54 matches (pretty much 3 saga) at a 81% wr.

A lot of the removal is now exile based, with many decks playing white for Prismatic Ending. This complicates a couple things, you can't as easily leave naked Grindstones lying around. You hope the Goblins eat removal, but in general they are having more trouble than before trying to act as protection. I have some ideas for small tweaks, but I really just want to practice various maindeck builds against the meta before Portable Hole comes out in two weeks.

To your points:

1) You're right that I should revisit testing Lattice with Sagas now. The line of just jamming Saga and then grabbing Led for Karn to then wish for something is very real. It also solves scenarios where you end up with only those two cards and haven't drawn a recruiter, or can't reasonably entomb something with Engineer.

2) Sure, the Copter beats were always a nice side avenue for the deck, and I have been missing the ability to block fliers. Moreso I've been missing the filtering. The overall problem is that I don't see where to fit copters in, and I don't know if that's a knock on recruiter. He's usually one of the best cards for enabling combo, in that the ability to block and tutor to hand is subtle card advantage something like Engineer can't provide. There are enough games where you need Cratermaker too. Feel free to chop, but a big reason I've always liked the deck is just playing the full set.

3) Rip Apart - yea I could see dropping these once Hole is out. There are enough Sylvan Libraries out there that it's been nice to have these as an answer, and I like their ability to pressure a Karn in play compared to Abrade. I don't board in Rip apart against Delver, because of the whtie which is another knock. There are arguments that we should just run Prismatic Ending

4) Certainly worth testing, I like that you can flex a Beta Meekstone on all the Walmart Delver players before dying to a Ragavan self assembling Painter and Stone on it's own lol. It competes with Bridge, but another Saga target could be nice. Might need 4 sagas in this case

The broader things I'm seeing right now are the rise in Depths and midrange decks now that people have started to learn the Delver matchups. It's interesting that Ragavan completely cannibalizes the Delver mirror, as you are playing a second copy of your deck, so one Monkey hit and you are up a mana for Daze and up a card. So they have completely inbred their decks into this one drop UR pile, with separate midrange brews like Rug Delver and newer stoneblade lists popping up. Then the bigger control decks like Bant/UW/Bug. Saga is also a major player, and more people are prepared with Wasteland decks and ways to tutor it up

Saga is still better than Copter, but I miss the filtering. As much of a meme it is, I might end up trying a single Brainstone since that's also a Saga target, and I wouldn't mind it as a value Engineer target. The ideal case is being able to move the bolts back to the board. That solves the lack of beatdown transition back towards a combo-control weird stack deck that hides behind bridge and counters your stuff

I could envision a build like this:

4 Ancient Tomb
2 City of Traitors
3 Bloodstained Mire
2 Wooded Foothills
4 Mountain
2 Plateau
1 Great Furnace

3 Urza's Saga
3 Lotus Petal
1 Lion's Eye Diamond
1 Simian Spirit Guide

4 Imperial Recruiter
4 Painter's Servant
3 Goblin Engineer
3 Goblin Welder
1 Goblin Cratermaker

3 Grindstone
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Blood Moon
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Portable Hole

4 Pyroblast
2 Red Elemental Blast

1 Brainstone
2 Enlightened Tutor
3 Karn, the Great Creator

side:

1 Grindstone
1 Lotus Petal
3 Surgical Extraction
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Portable Hole
1 Pithing Needle
4 Lightning Bolt
1 Magus of the Moon

Davek

06-22-2021, 05:28 AM

Thank you for the quick reply. In order to raise to 80+% your win-rate, did you drop the bolts as suggested by your potential new list or just swap a city of traitors for the third saga?

Kap'n Cook

06-22-2021, 12:51 PM

Thank you for the quick reply. In order to raise to 80+% your win-rate, did you drop the bolts as suggested by your potential new list or just swap a city of traitors for the third saga?

Here's the list:

4 Ancient Tomb
2 City of Traitors
3 Bloodstained Mire
2 Wooded Foothills
4 Mountain
2 Plateau
1 Great Furnace

3 Urza's Saga
3 Lotus Petal
1 Lion's Eye Diamond
1 Simian Spirit Guide

4 Imperial Recruiter
4 Painter's Servant
3 Goblin Engineer
3 Goblin Welder
1 Goblin Cratermaker

3 Grindstone
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Blood Moon

4 Pyroblast
4 Lightning Bolt

2 Enlightened Tutor
3 Karn, the Great Creator

side:

1 Grindstone
1 Lotus Petal
3 Surgical Extraction
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Pithing Needle
1 Walking Ballista
2 Red Elemental Blast
2 Rip Apart
1 Magus of the Moon

Davek

06-22-2021, 03:08 PM

Kap'n Cook

06-23-2021, 01:04 AM

Thank you again! Now, a question about sideboarding: against show and tell/emrakul in general, do you bring in Crypt or do you leave it out as a target for Karn? Wouldn't it be better to cut a Surgical for an additional Crypt/Lantern so that you can keep one in the the deck and the other for Karn's wishboard?

Depends on the emrakul deck - sneak/omni/post/tin fins, but the main way against sneak/omni I’ve been doing is

-3 stone, -1 led, -1 moon, -1 karn, -1 painter, -4 bolt, +1 petal,+3 surgical, +2 blast, +1 canonist, +1 bridge, +1 needle, +2 rip apart

this gives the best control approach to the matchup, you have a ton of live drops off show and tell and tutors to get bridge in play. ideal scenario is canonist/painter in play with blast in hand. Usually you need to answer two attempts, by then you either hope you can beat down or get a karn and go -2 stone -2 crypt. it’s still a three card combo but karn acts as a pseudo 2 card and let’s you go heavy stax and keep the dead stuff in the side

schweinefettmann

06-24-2021, 04:53 PM

I’ve been noticing that having all these urzas sagas means that we’re more ‘gung-ho’ into finding stone via the last saga level.

My thinking is that 3 saga, 2 stone, 2 etutor, 3 engineer, 3 karn should really be enough to find the stone, right?

Isn’t it better off then, to go down a stone, and use one more slot as hate vs whatever the meta is? I was thinking of a pyrokinesis main, since it’s so good vs a bunch of little dorks, and it could give us even more flexibility at a not very large cost in deckbuilding.

Ive also played a bit with dragon rage channeler, and let me tell ya; if you’ve never had the pleasure of paying R, blasting a land, AND feeding your welder via surveil, you gotta try it. Even if it’s just meme-good. It feels great.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Davek

06-28-2021, 05:19 AM

Kap'n Cook

06-29-2021, 06:26 PM

So, yesterday the 170-men tournament went pretty well, for i managed to top8 it! Basically, i listened to the suggestions of both of you guys, because i listed a pretty similar list to the one that Kap'n kindly shared while i ended up shaving 1 grindstone and 1 petal for 2 of my beloved copters. Sideboard differences in comparison to Kap'n were 1 lattice and 1 meekstone instead of walking ballista and magus of the moon. Ended 6-1-1 with an intentional final draw, losing only to ug show and tell and beating 2 jeskai miracles, food chain, TES, Death and taxes and Bug delver with chain of smog combo. Deck felt awesome and we ended up splitting top8 prizes

Shortcake Tier 0 :cool:

The meta in general seems extremely wide open, that's a pretty big spread of decks you faced

The copter additions I like a lot for a more tanky build. Playing with the bolts and Sagas gives a ton more beatdown presence and ability to block Delver and the red one.

I usually like to build toward full combo redundancy, so I'll probably always play the full four stones in the 75. I don't see a problem shaving one to play more like a Trinket Mage era Blue Red style painter deck though

Kap'n Cook

07-09-2021, 01:23 PM

Wanted to give my DnD list update now that Portable Hole is available on mtgo. Been through maybe 4 leagues, decent performance so far, mostly been testing manabase configs:

Strawberry Shortcake 7/9/21

4 Ancient Tomb
2 City of Traitors
3 Bloodstained Mire
2 Wooded Foothills
3 Mountain
3 Plateau
1 Great Furnace

4 Urza's Saga
3 Lotus Petal
1 Lion's Eye Diamond
1 Simian Spirit Guide

3 Grindstone
1 Brainstone
1 Portable Hole
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Ensnaring Bridge

4 Imperial Recruiter
4 Painter's Servant
3 Goblin Engineer
3 Goblin Welder
1 Goblin Cratermaker

4 Pyroblast
4 Lightning Bolt

1 Enlightened Tutor
2 Karn, the Great Creator

side:

1 Lotus Petal
1 Grindstone
1 Pithing Needle
1 Portable Hole
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Tormod's Crypt
3 Surgical Extraction
2 Red Elemental Blast
1 Magus of the Moon
1 Karn, the Great Creator
1 Karakas

I've been steadily working in Urza's Saga in greater numbers, and the card is probably too good not to run the full set of. That has made the manabase and playstyle a bit different, as a lot of times you are operating on colorless mana only. There were enough hands I've wanted to keep that didn't have a permanent red source in them that would come back to bite me. I've been mentioning how Saga is a lightning rod for Wasteland, I think going up to three Plateau for color stability can work. Otherwise I'll just go back to the usual 4/2 split. Getting a fifth fetch back in is also a way to help the red count, and I plan on leaning more heavily on Brainstone to fix flooding, where fetch will help too. There's 22 lands now in the deck, I've always run 19. The deck is super mana hungry with Saga construct production, so I'm hoping the extra lands aren't really that bad.

For the board, when I was running Rip Apart and Prismatic Ending they always felt like a bit extra. It was tough finding cards to cut to bring them in too. With Hole now, we have so much coverage against the majority of cards you'll run into. That freed up some space, where a card I've never run but I think makes sense right now is Karakas. It gives us a lot more game against Reanimator and Depths, while just being more mana against Delver and bouncing Ragavan. It's an angle Painter usually doesn't have, and I feel like the effect helps some of our harder matchups. The last card was just Karn. There isn't anything I really want to run instead, and getting the third copy back in the 75 gives a lot more post board flexibility

k_omega

08-22-2021, 03:31 AM

I went 6-0 at a local tournament today with the following:

4 Ancient Tomb
2 City of Traitors
3 Urza's Saga
5 Fetch, Mountain
2 Plateau
1 Great Furnace
3 Lotus Petal
1 Simian Spirit Guide

4 Painter, Recruiter
3 Grindstone, Engineer, Welder, Karn TGC
2 Enlightened Tutor
1 Cratermaker, Canonist, Blood Moon, Ensnaring Bridge

4 Pyroblast
2 Bolt
1 REB, Hole

SB:
2 Bolt, Surgical
1 Rip Apart, REB
1 Ensnaring Bridge, Pithing Needle, Soul-Guide Lantern, Tormod's Crypt, Grindstone, Hole, Canonist, Liquimetal Coating, Breya's Apprentice

Card choices

Bolt/Blast distribution - I started with 4 maindeck Bolts, 4 maindeck Pyroblasts, and 2 sideboard REBs and kept finding myself in situations where I really wanted a Blast and did not want a Bolt. The 4 Bolts were originally a concession to Delver, but I was only infrequently getting paired against Delver on MTGO and Bolt was underwhelming against the slower blue decks and against the faster combo decks. The Bridge plan is good enough in G1 against Delver that I decided to deemphasize maindeck creature removal.
3 Saga - Mostly because I didn't want to acquire a 4th, but also because 3 seems to be enough that when I draw one, I can play it and have two mana available to activate it the following turn. Finally, I really wanted to play Blood Moon so maximum Saga would be practically begging for awkwardness.
3 Karn - With the arrival of Prismatic Ending there is a lot of exiling removal for combo pieces, and I wanted to avoid being obligated to Blast a Swords/Ending on one. I also kept finding that my constructs tend to be 3/3 or 4/4, rarely larger, so I wanted a way to put multiple artifacts in play without stuffing the maindeck with situational cards. This is relevant for being able to attack into possible Endurance or blanking possible Lightning Bolts.
No Brainstone - I liked Brainstone at first, but the activation was often inconvenient and I was usually activating it in the late game when I had 0-1 cards in hand to start with. I decided I would rather have an additional Bolt.
Soul-Guide Lantern - Tormod's Crypt is fine in Dredge- or Hogaak-like matchups where the whole graveyard needs to be wiped, but often it is enough to snipe a single card (Uro, Loam). In those situations Lantern has the advantages of staying in play to power up constructs and possibly drawing a card later. Moreover, having 2 exiling artifacts means that in Emrakul matchups, one can stay in the board and one brought in, so that it is easier to assemble the 3-card combo via Karn or ETutor/Engineer.
Rip Apart - I wanted another answer for Chalice.
Breya's Apprentice - This card is for grinding. Every tutor effect finds it, it synergizes with goblins, and most importantly it "draws cards". Also relevant is that it can put a Painter that did not name a color due to Dress Down into the graveyard without requiring another artifact already in the graveyard, unlike goblins.

Matches:
Round 1: 2-0 vs. Bant Miracles
Game 1: I lead with Welder which meets a Prismatic Ending, then Tomb -> Painter with a Blast in hand and untapped Mountain. He has no removal for the Painter, but I don't draw any more mana so am forced to use the Tomb to cast Grindstone in order to leave up Mountain + Blast. He is under the impression that a Dress Down at this point will turn of the color-setting ability of Painter (which it doesn't), so he passes back and I draw the Mountain to activate Grindstone with Blast backup in his upkeep, which deals with the Dress Down but not the Endurance. He finds no help in the draw step so I Grindstone again on my turn to win.

-3 Petal, -1 SSG, -1 Blood Moon, +1 REB, +1 Lantern, +1 Canonist, +1 Surgical, +1 Apprentice
Having seen his deck I know he has only 2 Teferi and 1 JTMS, so Needle is not worth it. One could keep Blood Moon, but it's relatively easy for them to fetch basics and you may need Sagas and/or white mana. Portable Hole stays in because sometimes there is a Null Rod, and Blasts are usually devoted to stopping countermagic or stopping removal. Hole gets the nod over Rip Apart here because it is an artifact to strengthen constructs.

Game 2: I keep a slower hand with Karn, Engineer, Blast, Recruiter, and some lands including a Saga. Engineer dumps Canonist before getting exiled and Recruiter gets countered, so I wait to draw mana for Karn + Blast. Saga -> Lantern exiles an Uro after which he has no real action, so Karn -> Liquimetal Coating goes to work on his white mana while I wait to draw Painter. Eventually I do, then Karn -> Stone to activate in his upkeep. 7 minutes of judge calls corrects his and the judges' understanding of the interaction between Painter and Dress Down and then I win.

Round 2: 2-0 vs. Sneak & Show
Game 1: I start with a Welder to his Volcanic -> Preordain. My second land is a Saga which I use to play Stone holding up Bolt, because it looks like he is playing Delver and I want to be able to play 3rd land + Engineer -> Bridge, weld Stone for Bridge with possible Blast backup if I draw one next turn, so I would rather not run the Engineer into a Daze this turn. This works out well as his Show and Tell -> Griselbrand lets me Engineer -> Bridge, then on my turn swap Stone -> Bridge which he can't answer.

-1 Blood Moon, -2 Bolt, -1 Hole, -2 Stone, +1 Blast, +1 Canonist, +1 Bridge, +1 Lantern, +1 Needle, +1 Surgical
This leaves me with 1 Stone and one exile effect in the deck. On the draw I bring in the second Bridge since Karn might be too slow to get it in advance of a Show and Tell.

Game 2: I mulligan to 2 Saga, Petal, Canonist, Cratermaker, Blast, which has terrible mana but allows me to put in Canonist off S&T + Blast an Omniscience, or put in Cratermaker off S&T to kill Emrakul, and Saga will eventually grab Needle for Sneak Attack. Naturally he plays T1 Ragavan. I draw no mana so use Saga + Petal to play Canonist, which trades with Ragavan. He cantrips but finds nothing, so courtesy of a timely City of Traitors my Saga produces 2 constructs and a Needle and the constructs carry the day.

Round 3: 2-0 vs. Emry Thought Monitor Saga Affinity
Game 1: Knowing the matchup, I keep a hand that has no turn 1 play but with 2 Engineers and a Bridge. He plays a Pithing Needle on Grindstone, I Engineer for Portable Hole. He has a Saga and some more cheap artifacts that don't really matter, so I play a Saga of my own and a second Engineer for Painter. I play the Bridge to hold off his constructs, freeing up mine to become goblin fodder to return the Hole, exiling the Needle, and the Painter before Saga fetches the Grindstone. Two Engineers allows me to blank his Aether Spellbomb so the combo wins.

-1 Canonist, -1 Bolt , +1 Rip Apart, +1 Needle
The only realy concerns in this matchup are Chalice and Karn. Bolt can kill Emry or Thought Monitor, but is usually useless against his constructs.

Game 2: He has T1 Seat of the Synod, Needle on Stone, Mox Opal and Force of Wills my T1 Welder, but has no action afterward. Fearing Chalice on 1, on my second turn I Portable Hole away the Needle (turning off the Opal) and play Grindstone which also gets Forced. With the opponent so low on resources it's merely a waiting game until I draw Saga -> Grindstone and Recruiter -> Painter to win.

Round 4: 2-0 vs. UR Delver
Game 1: On the play I have T1 Saga followed by Ancient Tomb, with a Mountain + Blast + Stone. Saga makes one construct before getting Wastelanded, which then gets Bolted so the path is clear for a delirious DRC and the stupid monkey. With Grindstone in play I resolve Bridge with 5 cards in hand, and take another hit before I get to ETutor -> Painter -> cast Painter with two red mana available and 2 Pyroblasts as the only cards in hand, but at 6 life. He Wastelands a third time leaving me with just Plateau + Mountain and Bolt puts me to 3, but I topdeck an Ancient Tomb to combo with Blast backup.

-1 Blood Moon, -1 Canonist, -2 Enlightened Tutor, -1 Karn, +1 REB, +2 Bolt, +1 Apprentice, +1 Hole
Deemphasizing the white mana, but since Hole can deal with a T1 threat I bring in the second. Apprentice comes in because something has to, and bringing a flier can be relevant.

Game 2: He mulligans to 5 and a Bolt on his T1 DRC leaves him with cantrips. I get a Saga construct and two goblins, but my hand is all removal and Blasts so I go for anemic beats (the construct is a 1/1). After running some threats into my removal the game is essentially over.

Round 5: 2-1 vs. Bant Miracles
Game 1: I mulligan to 5 including a Welder, Saga, and Painter. T1 Welder ends prismatically, and though a timely ETutor finds a second Painter to pair with the second Stone, the opponent draws StP and I can't reassemble before losing to Uro damage.

-3 Petal, -1 SSG, -1 Blood Moon, +1 REB, +1 Lantern, +1 Canonist, +1 Surgical, +1 Apprentice

Game 2: I keep a slow 6 that leans on the 2x Saga. I luckily draw a 4th artifact to start attacking with 2 4/4s, which eventually seals the game.

Game 3: I keep Apprentice, Karn, Recruiter, Mountain, Tomb, Blast. The plan is to draw the mana to play Karn with Blast backup, so Apprentice and Recruiter become bait. Apprentice eats Swords but Recruiter resolves, fetching Painter. So I am pretty sure he has removal, and opt to play the Painter with Blast backup after Saga finds a Stone. I Blast a Swords on the Painter, which gets countered so the Painter is exiled. After two turns I have the mana for Karn + Blast and Karn resolves naturally, so I fetch Tormod's Crypt (since Lantern is in the deck) to take care of a sleeping Uro. Karn gradually begins to take over the game, fetching back the exiled Apprentice and a Portable Hole to remove a Sylvan Library. Prior construct beatdown has brought him down to 8, and in combat a flashed Endurance blocks a Thopter. Apprentice turns that Thopter into +2/+0 on the other Thopter, which paired with a Dressed-Down Painter brings him to 4, in danger of a lethal attack on my next turn. Unfortunately he hardcasts a Terminus so I am left to rebuild from a Karn on 1. I draw a Blast, and opt not to counter an end-step Ice-Fang. I let the Coatl kill the Karn rather than waste a Blast on it, and am rewarded by drawing another Karn. This Karn gets the sideboard Bridge, which doesn't stop Ice-Fang since I'm still holding the Blast, but does protect me and Karn against any end-step Endurances. After several turns of both of us drawing nothing relevant, I assemble the combo only to have Painter exiled by a Swords, the Blast being countered. I draw an ETutor which allows me to topdeck a Painter and empty my hand, so that Karn will be on 3 at the start of my turn. I cast the tutored Painter, which gets forced, then Karn grabs the exiled Painter which allows the combo to win.

Round 6: 2-0 vs. UR Delver
Game 1: He leads with a Delver which I Hole away. He has the Wasteland for my Plateau but since I have Mountain, Saga, Ancient Tomb in hand already and no more white cards that is no problem. Saga produces a construct before being Wastelanded, and although the first Painter dies the second one does not so the combo wins.

-1 Blood Moon, -1 Canonist, -2 Enlightened Tutor, -1 Karn, +1 REB, +2 Bolt, +1 Apprentice, +1 Hole

Game 2: After trading off creatures with each other's removal and baiting out the Meltdown with 2 Grindstones and 2 constructs, I land a Bridge and the opponent is reduced to surveiling for the 1-of Brazen Borrower, having already used the Abrade to kill a threatening construct. I'm trying to find the third maindeck Grindstone to go for the manual mill win, and a second Saga finds it. I now have two 5/5 constructs, a hardcast Spirit Guide (originally a Ragavan blocker), a Recruiter, and a Painter against a Ragavan and two delirious DRCs with the opponent at 10 and me at 14. After some fetches and a Surgical on Saga, the opponent is at 6 and I topdeck a Bolt to pair with one in hand for lethal.

Observations

Blood Moon never came up and I never particularly wanted it. Some of that is due to the matchups played.
It's difficult to actually close out a game via construct damage. I wouldn't mind some more maindeck artifacts, but which ones and what to cut?
I faced Delver twice and 2 maindeck Bolts seemed fine.

Changes
I wouldn't fault anyone for cutting the Blood Moon, or playing a 4th Saga, or replacing the Coating or Apprentice in the sideboard, but I think the list is great as is.

Kap'n Cook

08-30-2021, 07:53 PM

Snuck into 8th in the Legacy challenge yesterday with a 5-2 record and promptly lost to finish in 8th, figured I'd give a quick post and list thoughts:

4 Ancient Tomb
2 City of Traitors
1 Arid Mesa
2 Bloodstained Mire
2 Wooded Foothills
4 Mountain
2 Plateau
1 Great Furnace

4 Urza's Saga
4 Lotus Petal
1 Lion's Eye Diamond
1 Simian Spirit Guide

4 Imperial Recruiter
4 Painter's Servant
3 Goblin Engineer
3 Goblin Welder
1 Goblin Cratermaker
1 Walking Ballista
1 Ethersworn Canonist

3 Grindstone
1 Brainstone
1 Portable Hole
1 Ensnaring Bridge

4 Pyroblast
2 Red Elemental Blast

1 Enlightened Tutor
2 Karn, the Great Creator

side:
3 Surgical Extraction
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Grindstone
1 Pithing Needle
1 Portable Hole
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Lightning Bolt
1 Magus of the Moon
1 Karn, the Great Creator

Don't worry, Arid Mesa is just an old border placeholder online so I can see the 5th fetch, it will def be an OG onslaught for big paper events

I had been messing around with no bolts main since it's so much better against the broader meta, and hoping to get by with bridge game 1 against UR Delver. Otherwise, you don't actually really care about killing any creatures from DnT, so I switched up the main a bit. Brainstone continues to be my filter card for random Saga value, and Portable Hole is the generic catch all

Not gonna do a broader recap, but wins were: Rug Cascade for crashing footfalls, Bug Aluren with Force of Vigor, Endurance, and your bug value pile, UR Delver, UB Painter (sorry mapson) where g1 he leads Tomb and Painter on black, whlie I have land, grindstone, LED for the turn 1 on the comeback, and Doomsday. Losses to UR Delver same dude twice, and UG lands where i got ground down to dust.

I have some things I'm going to tinker with, probably try to get some Smuggler's Copters back in because of their utility across matchups plus filter. Otherwise prepping for the Pit open, and will probably post a pimp update once old border Karns are out

Airwave

09-08-2021, 11:47 AM

Davek

09-09-2021, 07:03 AM

Thank you! I did in fact, it was a 194 men tournament this time, straight 6-0 and then 2 ID to enter Top8. Matchups I faced were Sneak and Show (2-0), Dredge (2-1), Bant Omnitell (2-0), U/B Shadow (2-0), Goblins (2-1) and Jeskai Sagavan (2-1). Lost in Top8 to UR Delver. Decklist was pretty much the same as last time, just added a 4th Saga maindeck, a 4th Karn to sb and made room for a couple of Portable Holes (1 maindeck, 1 sb) cutting Blood Moon, Simian Spirit Guide and Rip Apart.
The deck is at its best, saga allows you to have a very consistent beatdown plan while at the same time presenting at least half of the combo on the battlefield.

schweinefettmann

09-17-2021, 09:45 AM

Airwave

09-21-2021, 05:10 AM

Oswald Fiddlebender

Could this be an interesting addition to the deck?

Reeplcheep

09-21-2021, 10:55 AM

Oswald Fiddlebender

Could this be an interesting addition to the deck?

Activate as a sorcery stops you from doing the weld grindstone into painter trick. But this could be goblin engineer number 5 if you want.

Airwave

09-22-2021, 06:06 AM

Activate as a sorcery stops you from doing the weld grindstone into painter trick. But this could be goblin engineer number 5 if you want.

Activate as a sorcery is a big disadvantage indeed. Dodging graveyard-hate on the other hand is nice, but this isn't often relevant until game 2, hmmz :rolleyes:

Airwave

09-22-2021, 06:10 AM

I was wondering, since we have all the fetch lands available as old-border, what would give me more of an edge;
1. as the original shortcake build had it (mires, foothills)?
2. as big a spread as possible (one of each that fetches mountains)?
3. pretending to be some other deck (in this case, only tarns, pretend to be UR delver or something along those lines)?

Or some other combination I've not thought of?

I mentioned this earlier, but I think spread it the best, so use all four. Spyglass can kill you with multiples.

I love pretending to be another deck, but how often can you wait a turn to use scalding tarn, turn 1 Welder or Grindstone can't wait, enlightened tutor can on the other hand.

schweinefettmann

10-31-2021, 09:02 AM

Alrighty. So having moved recently and having mo friends who play legacy (or magic at all) close by, this is all just theory-crafting. So I need some real-life fact-checking please!

Preparing for the Swedish nationals in the coming weekend, and I’m trying to figure out what 75 is the most effective build; partly for how I tend to play, and partly for how the general meta looks. I guess there will be a good number of people bringing pet decks, and others bringing lands, ur delver and dnt as the premiere hot stuff of the online meta.

Shortcake - you can outsmart me, but you can’t outsmart silver bullets!

18 creatures
3 Goblin Welder
1 Ethersworn Canonist
4 Goblin Engineer
4 Painter's Servant
4 Imperial Recruiter
2 Simian Spirit Guide

2 PW
2 Karn, the Great Creator

7 Spells
2 Enlightened Tutor
3 Pyroblast
2 Red Elemental Blast

1 Enchantments
1 Blood Moon

10 Artifacts
1 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Lotus Petal
3 Grindstone
1 Smuggler's Copter
1 Ensnaring Bridge

22 Lands
2 Great Furnace
4 Mountain
2 Plateau
4 Ancient Tomb
1 Arid Mesa
1 Bloodstained Mire
2 City of Traitors
2 Scalding Tarn
3 Urza's Saga
1 Wooded Foothills

Sideboard
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Goblin Cratermaker
1 Karn, the Great Creator
4 Lightning Bolt
1 Pyroblast
1 Red Elemental Blast
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Portable Hole
1 Pithing Needle
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Tangle Wire
1 Engineered Explosives

Ideaboard
1 Sundering Titan
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 spellskite
1 hex parasite
1 bolas citadel
1 torpor orb

So far my real issues are:
1. Is explosives worth it? It hits me bad, can’t really be welded, but it’s a easy way to kill chalices, and 1cmc-tribal decks.
2. 5 blast main, 2 side. Yea, blue is still a thing, but is it really that powerful? And in a meta where I might meet stuff like Spanish Inquisition or trainwreck (assuming it’s the pet-deck meta), is it worth it?
3. Tangle wire; sure it can lock down delver decks (read: delay), but so can a bridge and bolts and blasts and copters. And if I can cycle tangle wire in and out, aren’t I already winning as is?
4. Karn side. My thinking is that some decks are slow enough, and I’ll need all the grind I can muster. But the meta in general feels a lot faster than a year ago. Maybe it’s better off as something else.
5. Hex parasite/crucible. Yea, so infinite karnstructs seem like a great idea in theory. And so does killing off opposing PWs, and so on. But this is probably not what shortcake wants to do.
6. Sundering Titan. The look on peoples faces when I land this guy is always priceless. Sure nationals are somewhat important, but I figured the probability of me taking down the whole event isn’t high, but the impact/statement I can make with Titan seems good.
6.1. And if Titans impact is big, bolas citadel casting etutor off the top into the second of the combo piece to win with citadel blast seems even better!
7. Torpor orb vs dnt and Oracle. Sure it’s bad with recruiters and engineers, but I’m not sure they have easy ways to deal with it. And that should give me enough time to win. I think. Or not?

Then, some more serious issues:
Mana - 22 lands of which 5 are non permanent (2 city, 3 saga), plus 4 petal and 2 SSG. The extra SSG is just cuz daze seems so prevalent, and the 3 saga allows me to moon people without feeling too horrid about blanking cards in hand.
Copter - I really liked copter. But it feels so hard to find space for it, and I’m wondering if it’s even good enough anymore. It kills delver, DRC, monkey, and can delay murktide/lage given enough welder effects, but it just needs so much setup to get it to work. Not sure if it’s better as something else.
4/3 engineer/welder - yea, welder is better in a vacuum, but finding silver bullets is sorta my play style. I’m not sure there are enough artifacts here to make all of this functional, and I’m not sure being more gy based is good considering how many decks these days use the yard.

Currently, I’m tempted to remove a karn and a tangle wire from the board, and putting in a spellskite and Titan into the board. Skite being bolt-proof and protect welders and really make removal a bit awkward for the opponents, and I just have a hard time saying no to a beefy Titan.

Any tips and advice would be appreciated.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Airwave

11-11-2021, 08:14 AM

schweinefettmann

11-21-2021, 01:45 PM

I came 32nd, the lower end of the 5-3 players.

Wrote up a tournament report here
https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink/topic?share_fid=74084&share_tid=33637&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Emtgthesource%2Ecom%2Fforums%2Fshowthread%2Ephp%3Ft%3D33637&share_type=t&link_source=app

Basically, started by getting turn 1d by rb reanimator, then game two got got by serenity.

Managed to get some wins where I probably shouldn’t in winning twice vs burn (both winning games 1 and 3), so that’s gotta count for something.

In the end, I feel like my mana was most definitely off. Too much fast mana (2 SSG, 4 petal, 1 led) in addition to too much permanent mana (22 lands, of which 4 saga and 1 city).

I think I regretted dropping down to 2 etutors, and I def think I should have gone down to 3 recruiters and 4 welders instead of the 4th engineer. The metas so much faster, with more random turn 1 decks.

But yea, learned a lot, gonna get better.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Kap'n Cook

11-25-2021, 11:54 PM

List I used for eternal weekend:

https://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?33656-Barreling-through-Eternal-Weekend-Wasteland-11th-with-Strawberry-Shortcake

Strawberry Shortcake

4 Ancient Tomb
2 City of Traitors
2 Bloodstained Mire
2 Wooded Foothills
4 Mountain
2 Plateau
1 Great Furnace

4 Urza’s Saga
4 Lotus Petal
1 Lion’s Eye Diamond
1 Simian Spirit Guide

4 Imperial Recruiter
4 Painter’s Servant
3 Goblin Engineer
3 Goblin Welder
1 Goblin Cratermaker
1 Ethersworn Canonist

4 Pyroblast
4 Lightning Bolt

3 Grindstone
1 Smuggler’s Copter
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Blood Moon

1 Enlightened Tutor
2 Karn, the Great Creator

Sideboard:

1 Grindstone
1 Tormod’s Crypt
3 Surgical Extraction
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Pyrite Spellbomb
1 Pithing Needle
1 Ensnaring Bridge
2 Red Elemental Blast
1 Magus of the Moon
1 Portable Hole
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Karn, the Great Creator

Airwave

11-26-2021, 10:27 AM

Thank you both for your reports :smile:

Reeplcheep

02-11-2022, 10:31 AM

Kap'n Cook

02-11-2022, 09:43 PM

I was playing WB humans in MTGO leagues and got wrecked by an imperial painter flickering twinshot sniper back and forth. It puts itself in the graveyard with its channel ability so it seems just as good with enlightened tutor as imperial recruiter. It felt like it gives painter a punishing fire and other pilots should consider it.

3R
Artifact Creature - Goblin Archer

Reach

When Twinshot Sniper enters the battlefield, it deals 2 damage to any target.

Channel - 1R, Discard Twinshot Sniper: It deals 2 damage to any target.

"Pierce the heart and pierce the head, even the mightiest fall down dead."

Definitely going to test this guy out, he checks every box only downside is 4 mana so no engineering. I was running this list for a while, plan to test him as follows:

4 Ancient Tomb
2 City of Traitors
2 Bloodstained Mire
2 Wooded Foothills
4 Mountain
2 Plateau
1 Great Furnace

4 Urza’s Saga
3 Lotus Petal
1 Lion’s Eye Diamond
2 Simian Spirit Guide

4 Imperial Recruiter
4 Painter’s Servant
3 Goblin Engineer
3 Goblin Welder
1 Goblin Cratermaker
1 Ethersworn Canonist

4 Pyroblast
1 Red Elemental Blast
3 Lightning Bolt

3 Grindstone
1 Smuggler’s Copter
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Blood Moon

1 Enlightened Tutor
2 Karn, the Great Creator

Sideboard:

3 Surgical Extraction
1 Tormod’s Crypt
1 Lotus Petal
1 Grindstone
1 Pithing Needle
1 Portable Hole
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Twinshot Sniper (has been Pyrokinesis)
1 Lightning Bolt
1 Red Elemental Blast
1 Magus of the Moon
1 Karn, the Great Creator

k_omega

02-20-2022, 03:24 AM

I made top 8 at a local tournament this past Saturday with:

4 Mountain, Fetches
2 Plateau
1 Great Furnace
4 Ancient Tomb
2 City of Traitors
4 Urza's Saga
2 Lotus Petal
1 LED, SSG, Mox Opal

4 Painter
3 Grindstone, Welder, Engineer, Recruiter
2 Enlightened Tutor, Karn TGC
1 Cratermaker, Copter, Canonist, Blood Moon, Bridge, Soul-Guide Lantern

4 Pyroblast
3 Bolt
1 REB

SB:
1 REB, Bolt, Pyrokinesis
2 Surgical
1 Faerie Macabre
1 Karn TGC
1 Tormod's Crypt, Needle, Grindstone, Portable Hole, Canonist, Liquimetal Coating, Breya's Apprentice, Bridge

For some time on MTGO I have experimented with merging the 8-goblin mono-red lists with my preferred ET + Canonist lists, usually at the cost of some of the fast mana or Cratermaker. Though these chimeras were functional enough, none seemed to perform particularly better and it proved difficult to consistently win in combo matchups. With this list I am trying to reconcile my preferences for conservative plays and access to a toolbox with my desire to have better game against combo. I'm not convinced it's 100% optimal, but after scything my way to 5-0 (D&T, Merfolk, 8-cast, 4c control feat. Omnath, BUG Hogaak) at FNM the night before I decided to register it as is for the Saturday tournament.

Card choices

1 Mox Opal - I doubt I would play Opal in a non-Saga build, but because Saga produces only colorless and eventually self-destructs, mana is tighter than ever. While one could fetch Petals with Saga, the Petals will eventually go away too so they don't really solve the problem. Metalcraft is usually trivial to achieve, often by the two constructs created by the Saga. I have been *extremely* happy with this card. With it I have been comfortable going to 21 lands from my usual 22 which gives me an extra maindeck slot. Having a non-Wastelandable white source has also made ET and Canonist less awkward in Wasteland matchups.

2 Lotus Petal - The only cards that I ever want to turbo out on turn 1 are Blood Moon and Canonist. Both of these are usually also fine if played on turn 2, and there are only ever 2-3 of them in the deck anyway. So I don't like devoting many slots to being able to drop a T1 lock piece.

2 Enlightened Tutor - When playing only one copy, I find that I don't draw it often enough to make up for the awkwardness of getting Plateaus Wastelanded. With three, I draw multiples too often and the card disadvantage becomes noticeable. So I play two.

Soul-Guide Lantern - In a deck with many tutor effects I like to have at least one piece of graveyard hate and this one gets the nod because it can draw a card. My local meta includes several Sneak and Show and Cloudpost players, so I wanted to be able to assemble the 3-card combo in game 1 without having to lucksack into Karn. But even ignoring that, I think it is worth playing simply because of all the UGx decks playing Uro and Loam, the fact that it addresses Endurance, being able to mess with delirium for DRC or delay Murktide, and the possibility of cheesing out G1 wins against Dredge/Hogaak/Oops/Reanimator players. This and Mox Opal are the artifacts I get with Saga when I don't want to offer up a Grindstone to a Prismatic Ending

3 Recruiter - Many (most?) mono-red lists have completely done away with Recruiter and still do well, and I kept finding that casting Recruiter would come at the cost of a) having to play into a Daze; b) taking 2 off an Ancient Tomb; or c) taking down red mana for Bolt/Blast. Something had to be cut to fit all the other cards I wanted to play, so I cut the card that tends to be awkward against Delver. This is probably the first card I would add back to the list if I were to cut something else.

Faerie Macabre - In most lists this would be a third Surgical. Against decks that don't inherently rely on the graveyard (blue soup control, Loam/Depths, the mirror), I don't bring in more than 2 Surgicals anyway due to space constraints and not wanting to draw too many copies of that effect. So the third slot only really needs to be something that is good against Dredge/Hogaak/Oops/Reanimator. Faerie Macabre gets around Chancellor of the Annex and countermagic and, most importantly, can be Recruited. Thus Recruiter goes from being too slow to usually matter (if you're getting Painter or a goblin) in those matchups to being a very relevant card.

Matches:

Round 1: 1-1-1 vs. 4c Loamnath
Game 1: This is a 4c control deck with Loam/Wasteland, Boseiju, Uro, and Omnath. I keep a hand with a red source, a Saga, and a Blood Moon that is obviously great in the Matchup but which I can't deploy without losing Saga and it's ability to bleed out StP/PE before Painters arrive. I draw a second Saga and the constructs meet their demise by StP/PE/Teferi until we are both at 3 cards in hand and no threats on board. My opponent plays a Sylvan Library and I take the opportunity to finally slam Blood Moon. It gets forced sending him to 1 card in hand. I have a Grindstone on board from one of the Sagas plus 2 red lands and a Petal, so the game is to stick Painter and combo before getting buried by Library while having only 3 mana plus whatever I draw. He has an Uro in the graveyard, so after a Welder gets Swordsed the follow-up Engineer can either get Bridge to prevent death by Uro or a second Painter so that any 1-mana source wins the game. I go for the Painter and am rewarded by the opponent escaping the Uro, cantripping into nothing and passing with only Tundra up. I decide I can't beat StP and go for the combo which works.

-1 LED, -2 Petal, -1 SSG, -2 Bolt
+1 Blast, +2 Surgical, +1 Apprentice, +1 Karn, +1 Canonist

Game 2: An early Teferi bounces my Saga before it can make a construct, which prevents me from getting Lantern to deal with the Uro dredged over by Loam. That Uro escapes and starts attacking, while the Teferi prevents me from being able to use blasts defensively. I don't draw anything relevant and die after blast on Uro eats Force of Negation.

Game 3: With 5 minutes left in the round I keep a hand that has T1 ET -> Blood Moon with a backup Urza's Saga. Unfortunately the sol land is a City and the Moon does not resolve, which leaves me needing to play Saga on extra turn 1 in order to get the Grindstone to go with the Painter in hand, but doing so costs me the City I will probably need to activate it. I try it and hope for the bust, but Teferi bounces the Saga again and I'm not nearly close enough to lethal combat damage.

Round 2: 2-1 vs. Cloudpost
Game 1: I know what this person is playing because I glimpsed some cards in his deck during the previous round, so I excitedly keep a hand with T2 Blood Moon. I play the Moon, opponent plays Ancient Stirrings -> Map, I Recruit an Engineer that gets an Ensnaring Bridge since I'm still vulnerable to basically any threat in his deck. Opponent maps for Boseiju to kill the Blood Moon, which works out well for me since that enables a Saga to find Lantern while I have the Painter already and ET for Grindstone. Opponent plays Ugin to remove my Recruiter and Engineer, which swaps a Great Furnace for the Bridge. I set up the 3-card combo two turns later which wins.

-1 Blood Moon, -1 Canonist, -1 LED, -1 Copter
+1 Needle, +1 Hole, +1 Karn, +1 Surgical
Having seen Expedition Map, Ancient Stirrings, and OuaT that can find Boseiju I decide Blood Moon is just not worth risking Marit Lage or messing up the Sagas and ETs I will need to set up the 3-card combo so I cut it. What a world we live in.

Game 2: I keep a hand with Engineer and Saga, Painter, and a blast which seems like it will be good enough since the opponent fails to find green mana for a while and I'm able to blast a Force of Vigor, but he has Ulamog for Painter and a Needle and Zenith -> Reclamation Sage for the Bridge, and I don't draw an artifact to exchange for the Bridge to prevent myself from dying to Ulamog.

Game 3: I have a Bolt for his Reclaimer plus Karn for Liquimetal Coating, which kills a Cloudpost before Boseiju kills it. This means that Boseiju does not kill the on-board Grindstone, so the coast is clear to ET -> Painter, Karn -> Tormod's Crypt, and combo after Bolting a Collector Ouphe.

Round 3: 2-0 vs. UR Delver
Game 1: I am on the draw against T1 DRC but Ancient Tomb -> Copter meets neither Daze nor Wasteland, so on my next turn I can play Grindstone and Engineer -> Bridge after he plays a Delver and I draw a Painter. His Delver flips and he attacks with it, not realizing I can crew the Copter with Engineer. I trade with the Delver, discarding the Painter to threaten the combo which he is unable to deal with.

-1 Canonist, -2 ET, -1 LED, -1 Karn
+1 Bolt, +1 Blast, +1 Needle, +1 Bridge, +1 Apprentice
Needle is for Wasteland, which may not be necessary but can be helpful since Saga often needs to find Grindstone or Mox Opal to play through Daze, or make constructs to block or beat down. I think it is better not to rely on Karn for Bridge, so I give myself more opportunities to find Bridge naturally by bringing in the sideboard copy. I can see arguments for bringing in the Portable Hole or taking out the other Karn, but I like never needing white mana and not being completely cold to Surgical on a combo piece.

Game 2: I have a hand of red land, Saga, Opal, Apprentice, Engineer, Painter, blast so I immediately keep. After mulligans he eventually deploys a DRC and two Delvers, which fail to flip for the next 4 turns. With him casting no cantrips I assume he has Surgical, countermagic, or creature removal so I cast Engineer which resolves(!), and since I have a Saga I take a chance that he will not Wasteland it by Engineering for Bridge instead of Grindstone. Engineer survives, and at this point all I care about is not dying to a sudden air force before Saga becomes Grindstone so I play the Apprentice to start making thopters and/or digging for the lands I need. Eventually I can play Painter with blast backup and combo on my next turn.

Round 4: 2-1 vs. Oops All Spells
Game 1: This person is local and I know what he plays. Based on experience this is a good matchup in that I almost always lose game 1 but almost always win both postboard games, but it never feels like a good matchup because they can sometimes just have the Pact of Negation or the Thoughtseize or the Force of Vigor or whatever. I am on the draw and bottom a Bridge and a Bolt to keep Saga, Petal, LED, Painter, and Recruiter. The plan is to draw fast mana and use LED with the Recruiter trigger on the stack to search for and cast Canonist. Naturally the opponent plays an Undercity Informer and passes, meaning that if I had kept the Bolt I probably would have won. I don't draw what I want and lose on the next turn.

-2 Karn, -1 Moon, -1 Bolt, -1 Cratermaker, -1 Copter, -1 Bridge
+2 Surgical, +1 Crypt, +1 Faerie Macabre, +1 REB, +1 Needle, +1 Canonist

Game 2: I keep six with Ancient Tomb, Petal, Recruiter, red land, Painter, Grindstone. This is the textbook case for sideboard Faerie Macabre, which I immediately go for. He does not immediately have the discard, and I eventually draw the land to combo.

Game 3: He keeps seven while I keep a five-card hand whose only positive quality is having a Surgical. He goes for the turn 1 but boarded out Pact of Negation due to fear of the Faerie, so Surgical wins it for me.

Round 5: 2-0 vs. GW Depths
Game 1: Having sat near this person earlier I have some idea what he is playing, so I am reluctant to keep my hand whose only mana sources are Saga, Great Furnace, and Mox Opal all of which are vulnerable to Wasteland (if the lands are killed I can't play the artifacts I need to turn on the Opal). But it does have Recruiter, Grindstone, Copter, and Bolt as well which are all good in the matchup so I decide to chance it. I lead on the play with Saga -> Grindstone. He has a Reclaimer which I can Bolt after playing Furnace and active Opal, after which I play the Copter. He plays a Sylvan Library, after which I make a construct and draw another Saga. When he takes an extry card with Library then passes with untapped Forest, Plains, Stage I suspect something involving double Crop Rotation into Yavimaya and Depths, so I Recruit Painter and attack with a construct while leaving Copter to block possible Marit Lage. Having seen the Painter and with Grindstone on board I guess he decides not to StP the 5/5 construct, so he falls to 6 facing two kinds of lethal. He does not have the double Crop Rotation and finds no help with the Library.

-1 Canonist, -1 Moon, -1 LED
+1 Needle, +1 Hole, +1 Apprentice
Apprentice makes blockers for Marit Lage, and I want more removal for Reclaimers and the Collector Ouphes that I'm sure he will bring. Hole is strong against Marit Lage. Since I may need to cast Hole or ET and he can certainly remove a Blood Moon, I decide that card is more a liability than I want to risk especially since I have other ways to deal with Depths.

Game 2: I keep Painter, Grindstone, fetch, Petal, Bolt, Blast, Needle and Bolt his T1 Reclaimer. He has a second, then I draw the land to be able to play Painter with Petal + Blast backup, which stops an StP. He has no further action so when a topdecked City gives the mana to cast and activate Grindstone that's the game.

Round 6: ID into the first seed for Top 8

Top 8: 1-2 vs UR Delver
Game 1: I mulligan some zero-mana and all-mana hands until keeping a three containing Fetch, Saga, Engineer. Engineer finds Bridge but dies before I can find an artifact to swap with it, but I do draw a land to start making constructs which is preferable to the only available alternative of walking my Bolt into a Daze revealed by Delver. This plan goes well but not well enough to make up for a 4-card deficit.

-1 Canonist, -2 ET, -1 LED, -1 Karn
+1 Bolt, +1 Blast, +1 Needle, +1 Bridge, +1 Apprentice

Game 2: I keep a one-land hand with Painter, Grindstone, fetch, 2 Bolts, Blast. I Bolt his DRC after drawing a timely land to play around Daze, then on the following turn draw another land to play Painter with blast backup after he plays no threat. I draw another Blast which lets me stop an Abrade on Painter through Force of Negation. Unfortunately I don't find Grindstone before he finds Bolt for the Painter, but I do have an Ensnaring Bridge. Shortly afterward I do draw the Grindstone and start milling him manually hoping to hit whatever he has to remove the Bridge. Murktide arrives, then a DRC, then a second Grindstone for me. I can activate both thanks to Mox Opal and a City, so that's what I do. He scoops after I mill his Brazen Borrower.

Game 3: I keep a hand with Karn, Bridge, Tomb, Saga, Grindstone, Grindstone, Fetch. This is not the sort of hand I want to see in the matchup, but it has the potential to make large constructs or hide behind bridge and does have the mana to cast everything, including red mana so I decide to keep it. He has T1 DRC and no Wasteland for my T1 Saga, but my attempt to block it with a Construct runs afoul of a Bolt that also gives him delirium. I make a second Construct and, having drawn a Bolt earlier, get Mox Opal instead of Lantern. This allows me to play a Grindstone which turns on the Opal, so in response to a Surgical on Saga I Bolt his DRC which prompts a double Brainstorm into Force of Negation, for which I have the Blast. All is looking well until he drops a Murktide, obligating me to play the Bridge. He has a Hurkyl's Recall though, plus enough mana and cards to play a second Murktide that pumps the first enough to be lethal.

Observations:

Mox Opal was spectacular
I never added mana with LED and boarded it out almost every round. I never considered this card particularly necessary before and still don't.
I've been very happy with the one Smuggler's Copter
Cratermaker was never relevant. In recent weeks I haven't found it particularly necessary on MTGO either because Karn, Chalice, and Null Rod have all fallen off in popularity.

Changes
-1 LED and probably +1 Recruiter

VivaSkegVegas

02-23-2022, 03:33 PM

Jorrit

02-26-2022, 04:03 AM

Here is a link to the painter discord server: https://discord.gg/T9bb2ztBUT

Kap'n Cook

02-26-2022, 01:04 PM

Is there an up to date Primer for this deck? A Discord? Or some other part of the internet / social media I should be looking?

I’ve just picked it up in paper and I’m interested in understanding some of the card choices, how to side board and some general top tips.

Any and all advice is welcome.

Thank you.

It's been on my list for a while to update the front page, I just keep putting it off. Ideally I'll have it refreshed in the next few months, otherwise most people chat on discord.

It is also a longer term plan of mine to more periodically post here with longer ideas to better capture the deck changes over the years. The Source is a lot better for historical viewing than other places

k_omega

06-26-2022, 02:23 AM

I made 2nd place for a Tundra at a local event this past Saturday with:

4 Mountain, Fetches
2 Plateau
1 Great Furnace
4 Ancient Tomb
2 City of Traitors
4 Urza's Saga
2 Lotus Petal
1 SSG, Mox Opal

4 Painter, Recruiter
3 Grindstone, Welder, Engineer, Karn TGC
2 Enlightened Tutor
1 Cratermaker, Ichor Wellspring, Canonist, Bridge, Soul-Guide Lantern

4 Pyroblast
2 REB
2 Bolt

SB:
1 REB, Bolt, Abrade
2 Surgical
1 Faerie Macabre
1 Tormod's Crypt, Needle, Grindstone, Portable Hole, Canonist, Liquimetal Coating, Breya's Apprentice, Bridge, Torpor Orb

Card Choices:

This is pretty much the same list I've used for a while now, with one real exception:

Torpor Orb - This used to be a Magus of the Moon but I found that card to be a bit too awkward with Saga/Plateau and a bit too low-impact now that 8-Mulch has practically disappeared. I expected some known local D&T experts to show and wanted some more action for that matchup. Orb is also reasonable against Elves and 12 Post which are the other two matchups where I would have been interested in a Magus. Splash damage against Doomsday is a plus.

Matches:
Round 1: 2-1 vs. UWR Mentor
Game 1: I'm stuck on the two lands from my opening hand for far longer than I like, but I am able to Bolt a Mentor and deploy Engineer -> Wellspring which helps. I decide to blast a Narset to prevent him finding more exiling removal and out of fear of Days' Undoing, which means I have no protection for a Grindstone to go with my two Painters. But disciplined use of the combat step has left him at 8, so I go for 1/x aggro which eventually gets the job done.

+1 REB, +2 Surgical, +1 Apprentice, +1 Bolt, +1 Canonist
-1 Lantern, -1 Petal, -1 SSG, -2 ET
Experience has shown that these decks struggle to win without an active Mentor, so I bring in an additional Bolt to deal with that card.

Game 2: I play an early Cratermaker to push damage and avoid tapping Ancient Tomb for it later but it gets Swordsed leaving me with no answer to the Mentor except for Painter + Blasting it, which I opt not to do since I can combo next turn. However he has two pieces of removal for the Painter and I get run over by monks.

Game 3: My T1 Painter gets Swordsed but T2 Karn resolves and gets it back. He seems to be struggling to get all three colors of mana so I Karn for Liquimetal Coating which immediately becomes useless thanks to Stony Silence. I turn it into a 2/2 to recharge Karn so I can fetch Portable Hole to exile the enchantment. I'm forced to use Engineer to swap Hole for entombed Wellspring in response to Prismatic Ending on the Hole, returning the Stony. A Meltdown clears out all the artifacts but I'm able to Karn -> Grindstone to restart the Engineer/Wellspring engine and threaten to remove Stony by getting back the Portable Hole. Welder shows up to assist, and a final Karn -> exiled Wellspring lets me fight through a second Meltdown to combo in extra turns.

Round 2: 0-2 vs. Sneak & Show
Game 1: I am on the draw and deploy T1 Recruiter -> Engineer so that I can put it in off S&T to find Bridge, having the Great Furnace already to return it. However I have no defense against Sneak Attack which eventually puts in Progenitus and Emrakul.

+1 REB, +1 Needle, +1 Bridge, +2 Surgical, +1 Canonist
-2 Grindstone, -2 Bolt, -1 Recruiter, -1 Petal
I like to be able to Blast S&T and then extract it, so I sideboard to make that happen.

Game 2: I T1 Needle Sneak Attack and have the Blast + Surgical for his S&T, which shows a hand of Griselbrand, Emrakul, Meltdown, and Sneak Attack. Fortunately he has only one red source so he cannot Meltdown away the Needle and Sneak in the same turn. I have the Grindstone on board, Painter in hand, and Saga about to fetch Lantern but after seeing the Meltdown decline to play out the Painter. I play an Engineer to fetch Bridge, mostly to thin out the deck because I really need a blast for either of the two red cards. Opponent draws a fetch for Volcanic but apparently misses the line to Meltdown for x >= 3 (he has two Ancient Tombs). I decide not to trust him to keep missing it and combo hoping that he drew the Progenitus, which he did not, so I lose.

This is the only matchup where I might prefer the pre-Saga builds with multiple Smuggler's Copter, simply because the mana investment is smaller and it helps to find blasts.

Round 3: 2-0 vs. Synthesizer Shortcake
This person was encouraged to play Painter by his friend, my previous opponent, who was impressed by how I played it against him a couple months ago. We all three talked some before the event so I know this is a mirror match.
Game 1: I have a Bolt for his Welder and my Saga fetches Lantern to exile a Portable Hole that would have gotten very troublesome thanks to his Goblin Engineer and second Welder. I have the all-important Grindstone and basically wait to draw lands so that I don't have to use my Lotus Petal to combo. I'm able to combo after he taps out and I have no artifact in the graveyard.

-1 Painter, -1 Canonist, -2 REB, -1 Pyroblast
+1 Bolt, +1 Abrade, +2 Surgical, +1 Needle
I don't mind keeping in some blasts because it is sometimes necessary to kill a non-boltable permanent, chiefly Karn.

Game 2: I go for an early combo while his Welder is tapped, mine is not, and he has one mana open. Unfortunately he has Swords for the Painter, so the game devolves into his Goblins + 2x Experimental Synthesizer competing against my Goblins + Ichor Wellspring, neither of which really does much for either of us until I draw a Karn, which shuts off an LED, Grindstone, Opal, Shadowspear, and Petal and recurs the exiled Painter. I have a Pyroblast and am able to wait to combo again with blast backup against his one card in hand, which turns out not to matter.

Round 4: 2-1 vs. Non-Fable Red Prison
Game 1: I expected this person to play D&T so I keep Tomb, City, Saga, 2x Painter, Karn which is better for that matchup than mulliganing to five would be. I am on the draw so get to be surprised by his T1 Mountain. Since the hand doesn't do much else I play Tomb -> Painter on Blue expecting a Bolt on it. Instead he plays a Shatterskull land tapped, so I play Karn -> Grindstone. He has a third land and Trinisphere, but I previously drew a second Tomb to be able to cast Grindstone and combo him out.

-1 Soul-Guide Lantern, -1 Canonist, -1 REB, -1 Wellspring, -1 Recruiter
+1 Abrade, +1 Bolt, +1 Needle, +1 Apprentice, +1 Bridge
I figure this is the Fable/Hearse version that has done well recently, so I want the Needle to mitigate those two cards. Apprentice is a reasonable counterplay to Rabblemaster/Warboss, and on the draw Karn -> Bridge is probably too slow so the second Bridge moves to the main. Since it could easily become necessary to lock out a bunch of 1-power goblin tokens I don't want the liability of Wellspring or Recruiter putting more cards in my hand so I shave on those.

Game 2: I keep Great Furnace, Plateau, 2 Petal, Opal, Grindstone, Engineer. Opponent has Ancient Tomb, Chrome Mox, SSG for a T1 Karn -> Coating which completely shuts me out. I play the Furnace rather than discard to hand size and scoop to a Trinisphere.

-1 Apprentice, +1 REB
Since this seems to be the old-style version with planeswalkers I want more answers to those.

Game 3: I have another explosive hand of Opal, Petal, Fetch, Grindstone, Welder, Painter, Abrade. I dump everything but Painter and Abrade which runs into another T1 Karn that kills the Mox. I draw an Ancient Tomb which lets me cast Painter, but both creatures die to Fury. Karn fetches Liquimetal Coating which I Abrade before it can destroy anything. I topdeck a Pyroblast,then a Painter to take out the Karn and he finds no answer to the Painter before I combo the following turn.

Round 5: 2-0 vs. Doomsday
Game 1: I know what this person plays so I keep a hand on the play that has T2 Canonist with a REB for any T1 cantrip, in this case a random Ponder. Canonist resolves and I eventually draw Painter + Pyroblast for the first Doomsday, then the second puts him to 5 against my Painter, Welder, Canonist, and Bolt in hand. Canonist stops him from drawing into the pile or countering the Bolt, so I win by combat damage.

-1 Lantern, -1 Bridge, -2 Bolt, -1 Cratermaker, -1 Wellspring
+1 REB, +1 Canonist, +2 Surgical, +1 Grindstone, +1 Torpor Orb
With T1 Grindstone being so strong, and Karn usually too slow, I bring in the 4th Grindstone. Despite the way game 1 played out, Surgical is usually much better than Bolt.

Game 2: I keep a hand with Torpor Orb, Grindstone, Canonist, Saga, Painter, Mountain, Engineer. Orb gets Thoughtseized but T1 Grindstone off Saga resolves and he cantrips a while. I play Mountain -> Engineer which gets countered, then Petal off Saga to cast Canonist which is also countered. But this leaves him with few resources, and after he Personal Tutors for Doomsday I draw the third mana to Grindstone it away, then play the Painter and later combo for the win.

Round 6: ID into top 8 as the 4th seed

Quarterfinals: 2-1 vs. Bant Control
This is a StP/PE Bant deck with Endurance, Ice-Fang, Narset + Days' Undoing, Teferi, and Karn/Lattice.
Game 1: I keep a hand with 2 lands, a couple of goblins, and most importantly a Bridge and a Karn. However I draw no only one Saga as lands for the rest of the game and effectively lose to Narset + Days' Undoing.

+1 REB, +2 Surgical, +1 Apprentice, +1 Canonist
-1 Petal, -1 Opal, -1 SSG, -1 Bridge, -1 Enlightened Tutor

Game 2: I keep Plateau, Saga, City, Karn, Grindstone, Canonist, Painter and he mulligans to 5, which is probably the only reason the Canonist survived. However after I draw a Welder and fetch Lantern off the Saga I have enough insurance against StP that I go for the combo. He has it, so I sacrifice the Lantern and then swap it for the Painter. He is unable to remove the Welder or the Grindstone on the following turn so from that point on if he casts a spell I can weld in the Painter in response to Grindstone activation. This leads to draw-go while I attack with Canonist and wait to draw something that lets me proactively win. It comes in the form of a second Welder which is enough.

Game 3: We both mulligan to 6 and I keep a hand with a Saga, City, Ancient Tomb, and 2x Painter which I decide is good enough. I draw a third Painter and lead with Saga to get Grindstone as early as possible. I run out a Painter off the Ancient Tomb next turn, which merely gets bounced by Teferi. I replay it, it resolves, and I play City to combo off. He has no Endurance so I win.

Semifinals: 2-0 vs. Doomsday (same player from Round 5)
Game 1: I am on the play and T1 Saga -> Grindstone, T2 Tomb -> Painter is too fast for him.

-1 Lantern, -1 Bridge, -2 Bolt, -1 Cratermaker, -1 Wellspring
+1 REB, +1 Canonist, +2 Surgical, +1 Grindstone, +1 Torpor Orb

Game 2: I keep City, Painter, Grindstone, Mox Opal, Torpor Orb, Saga, SSG threatening a Turn 2 if everything necessary resolves. He Duresses the Orb, I go Mox -> City -> Stone -> Painter but the Painter is countered. Unfortunately I now don't even have the mana for a Grindstone activation and if I play another land I will lose the City and be even further away from an activation, unless I can also turn on the Opal. I draw a Pyroblast and decide that's enough to exchange the City for a Mountain, which appears also to entice the opponent to go for Doomsday. He has no cards in hand after making the pile, and from the exiled cards I deduce his top card is Ideas Unbound. I get the best possible draw in Lotus Petal which, with the Saga from the opening hand and the Opal, gives 4 mana to hold up Blast and Grindstone. He does draw Ideas Unbound and casts it, in response I Grindstone him for the win.

Finals: 0-2 vs. #?@! UR Delver
Game 1: I am on the draw and keep a hand with Saga, Fetch, Painter, Grindstone, Plateau, ET, Bridge. I run out the Grindstone, then Saga + Welder while the opponent cantrips a lot but without playing a DRC or a Delver. I assume this means he is setting up a Murktide, so I preemptively play the Bridge which gets countered, and a Welder which gets Bolted. Eventually I draw an Ancient Tomb, a City, and a Karn so I have the option to attempt to combo or Karn -> Bridge and I decide to go with the former, thinking that he will probably Bolt it and I will need to ET for a second Painter, whereas I can probably Karn -> Bridge later if necessary. He does have the Bolt, and cantrips into a second Bolt for the tutored Painter, and a Murktide, and a Bolt + Mystic Sanctuary on Bolt to kill me after I go to 5 for Karn -> Bridge.

-3 Karn, -2 ET, -1 Canonist
+1 REB, +1 Bolt, +1 Abrade, +1 Portable Hole, +1 Bridge, +1 Apprentice
Portable Hole comes in because I think it's better than Karn, of which I used to keep in one copy. I have not been Surgicaled by a Delver player in a very long time and 1 mana removal > 4 mana situational card.

Game 2: I mulligan a Hand of 2 Mountain, 3 Blast, Grindstone, Recruiter because it can't deal with DRC and is extremely reliant on drawing mana (never a safe bet) for Recruiter to find Painter. The 6-card hand has no lands so I keep a 5 of Hole, Fetch, Engineer, Saga, Mountain. I fetch Plateau to Hole a T1 DRC and resolve Saga -> Engineer -> Grindstone having drawn a Painter. Unfortunately the opponent has Wastelands for both nonbasics and I draw no more mana for the rest of the game.

At the moment I wouldn't change anything about the list. I continue to be very pleased with Ichor Wellspring.

Kap'n Cook

08-22-2022, 01:00 AM

Top 4 in the Starcity Baltimore 5k today with the following, report to come:

4 Ancient Tomb
2 City of Traitors
2 Bloodstained Mire
2 Wooded Foothills
4 Mountain
2 Plateau
1 Great Furnace

4 Urza's Saga
1 Lion's Eye Diamond
3 Lotus Petal
2 Simian Spirit Guide

4 Painter's Servant
3 Grindstone

4 Pyroblast
1 Red Elemental Blast
4 Lightning Bolt

2 Imperial Recruiter
3 Goblin Engineer
3 Goblin Welder
1 Goblin Cratermaker

1 Brainstone
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Fable of the Mirror-Breaker

3 Karn, the Great Creator

side:

1 Grindstone
1 Pithing Needle
1 Portable Hole
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Soul-Guide Lantern
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Twinshot Sniper
2 Red Elemental Blast
2 Fury
1 Magus of the Moon

k_omega

08-28-2022, 02:09 AM

I won a local tournament for a Tropical Island on Saturday with:

4 Mountain, Fetches
2 Plateau
1 Great Furnace
4 Urza's Saga
4 Ancient Tomb
2 City of Traitors
2 Lotus Petal
1 SSG, Mox Opal

4 Painter
3 Grindstone, Welder, Engineer, Recruiter, Karn TGC
2 Enlightened Tutor
1 Cratermaker, Apprentice, Canonist, Ichor Wellspring, Bridge, Soul-Guide Lantern

4 Pyroblast
2 REB
2 Bolt

SB:
1 REB, Abrade, Blood Moon
2 Surgical
2 Bolt
1 Faerie Macabre
1 Tormod's Crypt, Needle, Grindstone, Portable Hole, Canonist, Liquimetal Coating, Bridge, Torpor Orb

Card Choices:

0 Fable - I've been playing one for a while, replacing a Recruiter. Usually it's lackluster. I've found that:

The token often can't reasonably attack, at which point it's just as much a chump blocker as Recruiter.
I often don't have many cards I'm willing to discard.
I often don't have anything good to copy with the Reflection.

I think the deck isn't built to make great use of Fable, and since I wanted to play 2 ET and did not want to buy more Fables (or Furies) and redesign the deck accordingly, I cut it to make space for...

Maindeck Breya's Apprentice - I was boarding this card in in almost every matchup. Maindecking this slightly improves the Delver matchup and I wasn't Karning for it much anyway. Taking it out of the sideboard allows for the...

4th sideboard Bolt - Delver, but also somewhat the Jeskai Mentor/planeswalker decks.

Blood Moon - I had been having trouble with 3c/4c control piles and people in my area seem not to respect this card anymore. If landed early, it does work against Delver and that's good enough for me.

Matches:

Round 1: 2-0 vs. D&T
Game 1: After we both mulligan I have Plateau, Petal, ET, Painter, Welder, Bridge on the play. Not great, but better than mulliganing to 5. I play the Plateau and after he plays Plains and no 1-drop I ET for Saga to get a second land and deploy Painter, since he probably has SFM -> Kaldra or maybe Thalia. It's SFM -> Jitte, so after drawing a Tomb I play Welder and Bridge with an empty hand. His turn is land + Jitte, and I assume that he must have StP/Solitude because otherwise his draw is just too weak to be real otherwise. I draw Karn and Saga goes to find Grindstone. I decide to wait to combo since I can draw a blast to stop one piece of interaction, and Karn gives a huge safety cushion in any case. He goes to Skyclave the Painter, I combo, and he has Solitude going to one card in hand. Because of Skyclave he does not have mana to equip Jitte, so I can untap and play Karn to shut off that problem (still with one card and Brige vs. SFM, Skyclave). Karn eventually gets the exiled Painter and I combo out.

-1 Canonist, -1 Lantern, -2 ET, -1 REB
+1 Needle, +1 Hole, +2 Bolt, +1 Abrade

Game 2: He has T1 Saga, I have T1 Grindstone + Opal, then he plays Plains + Serenity. I play Ichor Wellspring off a second Mountain, then cast Welder using the Opal. Serenity kills his Saga and my artifacts, I draw a card from Wellspring, and he follows up with Wasteland + Thalia. I play out a Saga and have a Bolt but decide to play Painter instead of Bolting the Thalia because a) SFM, b) he will probably Wasteland the Saga, so his Thalia will make it harder for him to StP the Painter, and c) Painter blocks Thalia. He does Wasteland the Saga, then attacks with Thalia(!). I block, earning a Solitude on Painter. I draw an Ancient Tomb which lets me play Karn and get back the Painter, but Thalia knocks Karn down to 1. Painter + Recruiter for Engineer stabilizes the board and Karn eventually gets Grindstone for the win.

Round 2: 1-1-1 vs. UR Delver
Game 1: I am on the play with T1 Welder, followed up by Petal + Tomb + Apprentice. He Bolts the Welder and Wastelands the Tomb, and I am left on one land with 2x Recruiter and a Karn in hand, but some timely Bolts and Blasts let me fend off DRCs and Delvers while attacking with Apprentice and the thopter, also finding a second Welder. I draw a Canonist and then a fetch, and I decide to walk into the on-board Wasteland by fetching Plateau to deploy Canonist. At this point the board is 1/1 DRC vs. Apprentice, Thopter, Canonist, Welder with the opponent at 6, myself at 7. Naturally this is when a 6/6 Murktide shows up. I chump it and cash in the Thopter for a card revealing Bolt. He has a second Murktide producing a 4/4 and making the first dragon now lethal, and unfortunately I can get through for only 2 damage, so I have to use the timely Saga to Recruit Engineer, play Welder tricks to get another thopter to chump Murktide, then Engineer for Bridge and Weld it in. Canonist works overtime here stopping cantrip chains from finding countermagic so this all resolves. Saga finds Grindstone, I Recruit Painter, and eventually draw mana for Grindstone before he finds 2 bolts.

-2 ET, -3 Karn
+2 Bolt, +1 Bridge, +1 Moon, +1 REB

Game 2: I have a hand with mana, removal, and Bridge and manage to stick the Bridge. Once he gets a Murktide down, though, Brazen Borrower bounces the Bridge and I don't have enough mana to play it and an Engineer for backup, so when Force of Negation counters the replayed Bridge I end up facing lethal.

Game 3: We have 6 minutes left in the round now (game 1 took 34). I mulligan to Fetch, Tomb, Bridge, Engineer, Petal, Bolt. Bridge resolves, then Engineer resolves and I decide to get Apprentice with it instead of guessing which combo piece I won't draw. With the Engineer active, Apprentice gives me counterplay against removal on Bridge, even if it's Petty Theft, and might possibly draw me into combo pieces if I can lock out the combat step. I'm consciously playing for the draw at this point, and almost lose it when a Delver flips revealing a Meltdown, but the opponent only has three lands and doesn't find a fourth before extra turns are over.

Round 3: 2-0 vs. Oops All Spells
Game 1: I know what this person is playing and mulligan to a 5 with Saga, Painter, Furnace, Lantern, Grindstone. Lantern stops him from milling himself, but I eventually mill him anyway.

-3 Karn, -2 Bolt, -1 Cratermaker, -1 Wellspring, -1 Bridge
+2 Surgical, +1 Faerie Macabre, +1 Crypt, +1 REB, +1 Canonist, +1 Needle, +1 Grindstone
Wellspring has the advantage of being cheaper and not needing red mana, but Apprentice is better at dealing with a sudden zombie attack force if he goes for Memory's Journey after a mill. I keep Apprentice for that and because there's nothing else worth bringing in for it.

Game 2: He mulligans to 4, I mulligan to 5 with Lantern, ET, Engineer, Grindstone, Plateau. He does not T1 me, so I play Plateau -> Lantern which again buys the time I need to set up the combo.

Round 4: 2-0 vs. Mono-B Helm
Game 1: This is a local brewer with a Leyline/Voidwalker/Helm/Opposition Agent type deck. I run out a T1 Grindstone and he shreds my hand with 2x Thoughtseize. I play a second Grindstone, then topdeck a Painter to win.

-1 Canonist, -1 Lantern, -1 ET, -1 REB
+1 Abrade, +1 Bolt, +1 Needle, +1 Abrade
I make myself less vulnerable to Helm and Opposition Agent.

Game 2: He has no T1 play so I risk Wasteland by playing Tomb + Petal + Painter + Grindstone. He has a Sudden Edict for the Painter and a Chalice on 1. Seeing a Wasteland for the Tomb, I Recruit for Goblin Engineer anticipating a need to get Wellspring to claw back into the game. He plays an Opposition Agent, making Engineer much less valuable, but still good enough to exchange an Apprentice for the dead Painter for the win.

Round 5: ID into top 8 as the second seed.

Top 8: 2-1 vs. Reanimator
Game 1: I know what he's playing and mulligan to Fetch, Saga, ET, Pyroblast, Grindstone, Engineer. Since I'm on the play and can ET for Lantern in response to discard, I decide I'm not mulliganning any further. Unfortunately he has a Chancellor. Since I might need the Grindstone either to combo or exchange for Engineered Bridge, and will need to cast ET, I decide to play the fetch and pass hoping for no discard. Apparently he kept a hand that needed one fast mana to go off and did not draw it, so I Pyroblast a land on his end step to eat the Chancellor trigger, upkeep ET -> Lantern and win from there.

-3 Karn, -2 Bolt, -1 Cratermaker, -1 Canonist
+2 Surgical, +1 Faerie Macabre, +1 Crypt, +1 Grindstone, +1 Needle, +1 Bridge

Game 2: I mulligan a 6 with Lantern but no other real action and luck into a 5 of Surgical, Crypt, Saga, Saga, Bridge. He has an Unmask for the Surgical, then reanimates Archon. I discard Crypt so that I can draw fast mana or a sol land and drop Bridge before Archon kills me, but I don't draw any.

Game 3: I keep 7 with Faerie Macabre, Petal, Fetch, ET, REB, Saga, Engineer, playing out Petal + Fetch. He has double Dark Ritual off a fetched Bayou into Grief, taking Engineer, but no follow-up so I ET for Painter then play Saga + Painter with REB up via Petal. I take a couple hits from Grief but he has no other play after a Lotus Petal, so I immediately suspect Abrupt Decay. I draw and play Welder, taking the risk of having to use Petal for REB and then having to find mana to activate Grindstone. Instead he cashes in the Petal to Decay my Welder, but finds no mana to use his second Decay so I win on my turn.

Top 4: 2-1 vs. UR Delver
Game 1: I am on the play and run out Mountain + Grindstone, which eats a Force of Will pitching Murktide. So I suspect the opponent is not very familiar with the matchup, and after an Engineer resolves (fetching Painter), a Canonist resolves, and he Chain Lightnings the Canonist while the Engineer is active I'm sure of it. I exchange the Canonist for the Painter then combo on my turn.

Same sideboarding as round 2

Game 2: I keep a hand with removal, lands, and an Engineer but this time the Engineer dies. My removal stops his 1-drop threats so I play out a Painter to add to the Apprentice beatdown, but the Painter gets Bolted, then Surgicaled and once Murktide arrives I don't have a way to win quickly or lock out the game.

Game 3: I mulligan to Mountain, Tomb, Cratermaker, Bolt, Apprentice, Lantern. This hand is poor because it requires Tomb to survive and to be repeatedly tapped, and does not have a clear path to combo. But it's better than mulliganing to 5 so I roll with it. He does not have a Daze for the T2 Apprentice, but does have a Null Rod which shuts off everything I want to do with the hand. But Cratermaker resolves and shines and I'm back to Apprentice beatdown. Apprentice gets Bolted but there is no countermagic for a topdecked Blood Moon which leaves him with one blue source and buys me a ton of time. I draw into the combo, while he drops an Unlicensed Hearse and flips a Delver. With Moon I have 5 mana, so when I draw a Pyroblast I decide to run out the Painter, name blue, and hope for the best. He Forces the Painter, but has no response to the Pyroblast except to Petty Theft the Blood Moon and Brainstorm, which evidently found nothing since Grindstone got there on the next turn.

Finals: 2-0 vs. UR Delver
Game 1: I keep a hand with 2x Saga, 2x Tomb, SSG, Welder, Engineer. In game 1 a fast Saga plan can beat Delver if they don't have an early Wasteland or take too long to deploy threats, so I like to keep those hands rather than mulligan for just the right mixture of mana + threats + removal that always seems to come up just a bit short. I'm on the draw now, though fortunately he does not have a T1 threat. I draw a Recruiter and run out the Saga, which unfortunately gets Wastelanded. I draw Grindstone and play it off the second Saga. He Dazes, I pay with SSG and now he has no lands and no threat on board. This Saga survives, makes two constructs, and finds Mox Opal to let me finally start casting the red cards in my hand. He manages to flip 2 Delvers though so I'm only slightly ahead in the damage race, then fall way behind to a 8/8 Murktide. I untap at 7 life with three Ancient Tombs and the Opal as mana sources, with two constructs, Welder, Grindstone in play and draw Arid Mesa (naturally). I would like to Engineer for Bridge and Weld it in, but one of the Delvers showed FoW and he has three cards in hand. I go to 5 to cast the Engineer, which does get Forced, then go to 3 to Grindstone myself hitting Mountain ... and Bridge! I swap a construct for it, and since I don't immediately die I know his last card is not Bolt. Two turn cycles pass without either of us doing much of anything, then I draw City which lets me Recruit Painter and go to 1 to cast it, threatening to win the next turn. He does not find burn or Borrower so I win.

Sideboarding: same as round 2

Game 2: He leads on DRC, and I decline to Bolt it until next turn when I can use Saga to pay for Daze. He has a Wasteland and no play, so I figure he has burn or countermagic in hand. I draw a second Bolt, play the Saga, and pass. On his turn he Wastelands the Saga, I respond with Bolt which gets Forced. Seeing that he missed his land drop, on my turn I play out a Petal and Bolt the DRC again, which resolves. After a turn cycle of scant action I have a Bridge in hand that I'd like to deploy but my only Mana sources are Mountain, Saga, and 2 Petals. I decide not to play the Bridge so that I can exchange the Petals for constructs, fetching Lantern to delay the Murktide I suspect he has (since he has done very little and hasn't gotten to two blue mana + 5 cards in graveyard yet). I'm left with two 2/2 constructs, but draw into Ancient Tomb so that I can make them 3/3s by casting Bridge, after which I'll have exactly three cards in hand. I put him to 9 with the constructs that are just small enough to be able to attack, then he Surgicals my Pyroblasts to clear the way for a Murktide, which isn't worth much because of the Bridge. This smells like Borrower to me, so I run a construct into Murktide so that the other one puts him in Bolt range, then cast a second Bridge and settle in to wait for fortuitous draws. I'm able to get empty-handed by casting the Grindstone and Welder that I had been keeping in hand before, so when I draw Engineer I cast it for Painter. The opponent digs a bit, uses a desperation Mishra's Bauble, and on my turn I exchange a construct for Painter and Grindstone him in response to the Bauble trigger.

Observations:

Never, at any point, did I wish that I had a Fable.
Maindeck Lantern is great. Don't leave home without it.
Maindeck Apprentice works well. I was always happy to see this card.
I definitely noticed having the fourth Bolt postboard against Delver.
Blood Moon was fine. I think it helped me win a game.

Depending on the meta, I might ditch the Wellspring to maindeck another Bolt or drop the Blood Moon for some other card. I might try putting a second Apprentice somewhere, possibly in place of Wellspring.

Kap'n Cook

09-02-2022, 12:27 AM

Good work :) love seeing painter reports on the source

adding my Baltimore one too:

https://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?33774-Source-Wars-Episode-II-%96-Attack-of-the-Stones&p=1101636#post1101636

FTW

09-08-2022, 02:06 AM

Nice reports!

Deck seems well-positioned. Master of maindeck Pyroblast. Abuses Saga better than other Saga decks.

Airwave

12-05-2022, 08:06 AM

Nice reports!

Deck seems well-positioned. Master of maindeck Pyroblast. Abuses Saga better than other Saga decks.

Initiative stompy is shaking up the meta :eek:

Do you think Painter is well positioned? The matchup seems favorable? But I'm not sure how others will adapt :eyebrow:

I see some painters put Torpor Orb in the sideboard, but that hurts our plan as well, what do you think?

Kap'n Cook

12-05-2022, 09:54 AM

Initiative stompy is shaking up the meta :eek:

Do you think Painter is well positioned? The matchup seems favorable? But I'm not sure how others will adapt :eyebrow:

I see some painters put Torpor Orb in the sideboard, but that hurts our plan as well, what do you think?

We line up relatively well, having a fast combo clock backed up with ways to prevent combat and even steal the initiative. Played against it a couple times in recent challenges, the red version is basically just red prison, that didn't feel too different. The white one is a bit tougher playing into Solitude and March of Otherworldy Light but its still death and taxes esque. I lost to a hybrid red white version where i had buffed my welder to a 3/3 about to snowball with initiative vs a Simian spirit guide and hellbent but died to topdeck March on Welder. Overall its just the latest flavor of the month bullshit Legacy gets to deal with before Delver changes 1 sideboard slot to address it

Here's what I've been on recently to decent results:

4 Ancient Tomb
2 City of Traitors
2 Bloodstained Mire
2 Wooded Foothills
4 Mountain
2 Plateau
1 Great Furnace

4 Urza’s Saga
3 Lotus Petal
1 Lion’s Eye Diamond
1 Soul-Guide Lantern
3 Grindstone

2 Imperial Recruiter
4 Painter’s Servant
3 Goblin Welder
3 Goblin Engineer
1 Goblin Cratermaker
2 Simian Spirit Guide

4 Pyroblast
1 Red Elemental Blast
4 Lightning Bolt

1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Ensnaring Bridge
2 Fable of the Mirror-Breaker
2 Karn, the Great Creator

Sideboard:

1 Grindstone
1 Tormod’s Crypt
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Portable Hole
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Pithing Needle
1 Ensnaring Bridge
2 Red Elemental Blast
2 Fury
1 Magus of the Moon
1 Twinshot Sniper
1 Karn, the Great Creator

Airwave

12-12-2022, 04:55 PM

Thanks for your reply. I'm sure UR delver will manage, and we will probably too :smile:

I'm not so sure about some of the fair decks. They seem to be quite trampled at the moment.

Michael Keller

12-13-2022, 02:15 PM

We line up relatively well, having a fast combo clock backed up with ways to prevent combat and even steal the initiative. Played against it a couple times in recent challenges, the red version is basically just red prison, that didn't feel too different. The white one is a bit tougher playing into Solitude and March of Otherworldy Light but its still death and taxes esque. I lost to a hybrid red white version where i had buffed my welder to a 3/3 about to snowball with initiative vs a Simian spirit guide and hellbent but died to topdeck March on Welder. Overall its just the latest flavor of the month bullshit Legacy gets to deal with before Delver changes 1 sideboard slot to address it

Here's what I've been on recently to decent results:

4 Ancient Tomb
2 City of Traitors
2 Bloodstained Mire
2 Wooded Foothills
4 Mountain
2 Plateau
1 Great Furnace

4 Urza’s Saga
3 Lotus Petal
1 Lion’s Eye Diamond
1 Soul-Guide Lantern
3 Grindstone

2 Imperial Recruiter
4 Painter’s Servant
3 Goblin Welder
3 Goblin Engineer
1 Goblin Cratermaker
2 Simian Spirit Guide

4 Pyroblast
1 Red Elemental Blast
4 Lightning Bolt

1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Ensnaring Bridge
2 Fable of the Mirror-Breaker
2 Karn, the Great Creator

Sideboard:

1 Grindstone
1 Tormod’s Crypt
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Portable Hole
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Pithing Needle
1 Ensnaring Bridge
2 Red Elemental Blast
2 Fury
1 Magus of the Moon
1 Twinshot Sniper
1 Karn, the Great Creator

Needs more Anarchy ;)

Michael Keller

12-16-2022, 06:01 PM

Needs more Anarchy ;)

New Painter deck in the works.

Daniel Worobec

01-07-2023, 01:44 AM

https://www.mythicspoiler.com/one/cards/themycosynthgardens.jpg https://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=3263&type=card

I don’t know if this will work in this deck but I feel it may be something.

Combo: Activate The Mycosynth Gardens when Phyrexian Dreadnought enters the battlefield and it becomes a 12/12.

Combo Also:

-Provides mana
-Phyrexian Dreadnought is brought onto the battlefield with Urza’s Saga
-Synergy with Goblin Welder and Goblin Engineer
-Phyrexian Dreadnought can work with Torpor Orbs in sideboard
-Alternate win condition

Airwave

01-07-2023, 12:35 PM

Fox

01-07-2023, 01:37 PM

The issue is that Painter stuff has basically nothing in common with Dreadnought. You'd have two combos in the same deck just tripping over eachother, leading to loss by variance.

There is also a glaring problem with trying to combine Ancient Tomb with Dreadnought. It never wins b/c it isn't blue, and Dreadnought is a blue card.

We can find some shared tools like Karn and Saga...but for every one of those you find problems like Torpor Orb killing your Goblin Engineer trigger, glaring vulnerability to Wasteland, not being able to use Dress Down or Stifle or Scroll of Fate or other Dreadnought tech. You also have a wincon currency problem: milling has zero synergy with attack for 12 dmg. You're just giving the opponent two "life total" pools to borrow against [actual life total and deck total].

This land gives a 2c deck with white the ability to use Prismatic Ending, albeit in a janky way - this is the floor. There's some stuff you can do with Karn wish Liquimetal (including Coat my Karn response opponent answer to Karn -> my land is my Karn now). You can also maybe decrease the amount of times Ensnaring Bridge causes you to lose b/c you can't keep it in play.

The bigger picture is that you get worse mana [another colorless source]...except it can slowly make colors...but with colorless mana on curve you can tutor colors with Timeless Dragon cycling. This complex means you can play a heavier Plains and white component (including Ending hitting above 2c, Karakas since you can cast stuff with it, etc).

This is going to play better than a poorly-supported janky Dreadnought package, which is still getting deleted by artifact wipes (you literally can't stop) and further compromising your access to colored mana vs Wasteland while you're sinkholing your mana total with Saga.

FourDogsinaHorseSuit

01-07-2023, 02:38 PM

Can also copy Grindstone if they remove it.. sadly Painter doesn't work :eyebrow:

Why not?

Fox

01-07-2023, 02:40 PM

Why not?

Only works as it comes into play. Would need printed static text "all perms are blue" to get that text from an already in-play clone effect.

FTW

01-07-2023, 03:06 PM

The issue is that Painter stuff has basically nothing in common with Dreadnought. You'd have two combos in the same deck just tripping over eachother, leading to loss by variance.

But this card does look good for Dreadstill, doesn't it?

Colorless uncounterable enabler means they have to Force the Dreadnought (2-for-1) instead of the Stifle (2-for-2).

It also means you can enable Dreadnought without casting spells (through an active Standstill). Urza's Saga -> Dreadnought -> copy with Gardens to make 12/12 without casting spells.

In other games it can copy Currency Converter or Scroll of Fate in response to removal.

Fox

01-07-2023, 05:03 PM

But this card does look good for Dreadstill, doesn't it?

Colorless uncounterable enabler means they have to Force the Dreadnought (2-for-1) instead of the Stifle (2-for-2).

It also means you can enable Dreadnought without casting spells (through an active Standstill). Urza's Saga -> Dreadnought -> copy with Gardens to make 12/12 without casting spells.

In other games it can copy Currency Converter or Scroll of Fate in response to removal.

It does those things, but kinda wish it didn't lose card type land. More interested in whether or not the extra color ability + Currency's Petals can support 3rd color with zero dedicated 3rd color sources. Unfortunately the effect that most non-UW versions would want is Verdict (6 "mana" off an AstroLand).

Whoshim

01-08-2023, 01:48 AM

There's some stuff you can do with Karn wish Liquimetal (including Coat my Karn response opponent answer to Karn -> my land is my Karn now). You can also maybe decrease the amount of times Ensnaring Bridge causes you to lose b/c you can't keep it in play.

The land won't have any loyalty though, right? Kind of like Thespian Stage --> Dark Depths. So it won't really help.

Fox

01-08-2023, 06:00 PM

The land won't have any loyalty though, right? Kind of like Thespian Stage --> Dark Depths. So it won't really help.

I can't remember the ruling, but I thought Post used to turn JTMS into a forest with a commander enchant permanent and they Stage copy to get a Jace and it working out. Maybe it was just a Vesuva thing; it's been a while since I saw the interaction.

FTW

01-08-2023, 10:29 PM

I can't remember the ruling, but I thought Post used to turn JTMS into a forest with a commander enchant permanent and they Stage copy to get a Jace and it working out. Maybe it was just a Vesuva thing; it's been a while since I saw the interaction.

The ruling changed at some point. Stage-Depths combo only worked after some rule change for copying. That same rule might stop copying Karn (0 loyalty). Perhaps the old rule would have allowed it.

Kap'n Cook

04-12-2023, 03:46 PM

Posting current list I've been testing to have at least one update here in a few months :)

4 Ancient Tomb
2 City of Traitors
2 Bloodstained Mire
2 Wooded Foothills
4 Mountain
2 Plateau
1 Great Furnace

4 Urza's Saga
1 Lion's Eye Diamond
2 Lotus Petal
1 Mox Opal
2 Simian Spirit Guide

3 Grindstone
1 Soul-Guide Lantern
1 Ensnaring Bridge

4 Painter's Servant
3 Goblin Engineer
3 Goblin Welder
2 Imperial Recruiter
1 Goblin Cratermaker
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Phyrexian Dragon Engine

4 Pyroblast
2 Red Elemental Blast
4 Lightning Bolt

1 Enlightened Tutor
2 Karn, the Great Creator

Side:

1 Grindstone
1 Pithing Needle
1 Portable Hole
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Tormod's Crypt
3 Surgical Extraction
1 Faerie Macabre
1 Containment Priest
2 Rip Apart
2 Fury
1 Magus of the Moon

Airwave

04-16-2023, 08:26 AM

Posting current list I've been testing to have at least one update here in a few months :)

LIST

Thanks for the update :cool:

The mono-red list is running all over the place. Do you think Shortcake still has the edge over the mono-red version? (or blue for that matter)

Soldier of Fortune

12-11-2023, 03:02 PM

Congrats on the sick run at EW, Kap! Happy to see Enlightened Tutor and Imperial Recruiter still show up from time to time.

Kap'n Cook

12-11-2023, 08:06 PM

Congrats on the sick run at EW, Kap! Happy to see Enlightened Tutor and Imperial Recruiter still show up from time to time.

Thank you Soldier I appreciate it

Top 8 report to come :smile:

Kap'n Cook

01-18-2024, 06:04 PM

Only a month late :smile: enjoy

https://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?34047-10-Years-of-Cake-Eternal-Weekend-2023-Top-8&p=1106135#post1106135

ESG

01-26-2024, 04:57 AM

Kap'n Cook

01-28-2024, 10:57 AM

@Kap'n: I'm curious: You opted to not run Fable in your list, and although you had tons of detail in your report, I didn't see that point discussed. What factors went into your decision? Is there an environment where you would prefer Fable? Painter mirrors, maybe? If you ran it, would it slot right into your current list, or would it require a cascade of other changes? You did mention Fable's tendency to stock a junkyard for Goblins, so do you see it as a package deal with 8 Goblins?

Fable is an interesting pivot point in how you want to build the deck. The Don is one of the few others playing and testing Shortcake these days but talks about it here in a report too:

https://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?33828-16th-at-Eternal-Weekend-North-America-with-Strawberry-Shortcake

For it to be good you have to play it turn 1 or 2, which means 4 copies. It reads 2R - suspend 1 and when you get to your next turn you can start planning out the rest of the game but you don't know what your plan is til then, which means getting to 3 mana to cast Fables becomes the plan.

So if that's the plan, you get absolutely wrecked by storm combo, doomsday, reanimator, and any other deck that is going underneath you which is most of Legacy, including all the tempo decks if you are just operating on curve with them. The way you compensate is to cheat mana yourself, via cards like Fury, Leyline of the Void, and Mindbreak Trap since you can't hang with them and your bombs like Chaos Defiler and Forth Eorlingas are irrelevant.

It's an awesome glue card if you make it to the 'suspend' turn then yea you feel great, you pitch whatever, maybe have a goblin in play with a relevant yard target like Breya's apprentice and you swing and make a treasure. Then what, two turns later you have an active Kiki? Sounds like an insane turn 5.

Nowhere here did I mention anything about this being a Painter-Grindstone combo deck lol

The easiest parallels to 4 Fable are my 2 E-Tutor and 2 Recruiter. Always the card I want for the turn after and I can run singleton bullets. I run more mana and the LED becomes required when I'm not falling back on random Fables to fix everything for me.

Kap'n Cook

07-29-2024, 11:22 AM

11th at the Starcity Baltimore 5k yesterday

Started 5-0 against Esper Frog, Grixis Frog, Bant Yorion, UB Oops, G Eldrazi

Choked two win and ins against G Eldrazi and Esper Frog where i won game 1 but couldn't close out :(

Finished off with a win against GW Depths for 6-2

https://i.ibb.co/QN8dSrw/decklist7-24.jpg

ESG

08-01-2024, 01:43 AM

Nice run. The Kap'n is still cookin'!

Your list looks virtually unchanged from before. I noticed one more red Blast, one less Enlightened Tutor, a switch of an SSG into a Petal, and the sideboard Karn getting benched for the much quicker Vexing Bauble. Were you happy with those changes, and is there more tweaking on the horizon? How much Re-Scaminator were you expecting to run into in the event?

k_omega

12-05-2024, 01:50 AM

Though my tournament was unremarkable (3-4 drop), for your reading pleasure and my future reference here is my report from Eternal Weekend North America 2024. The list:

4 Painter
3 Welder, Engineer
2 Recruiter
1 Cratermaker, PDE

8 Blasts
3 Grindstone
2 Karn
2 ET
1 Bridge, Lantern, Vexing Bauble, Blood Moon

4 Tomb, Saga, Mountain, fetches
2 City, Plateau
1 Furnace
2 Petal, SSG
1 LED, Mox Opal

Sideboard:
4 Bolt
2 Surgical
1 Faerie Macabre
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Pithing Needle
1 Grindstone
1 Portable Hole
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Abrade
1 Magus of the Moon

So fairly standard Shortcake compared to lists from the past year, except:

Maindeck Canonist replaced by maindeck Bauble. With Storm-type decks way down, artifact combo way up, hard control way down, and Reanimator decks playing Wasteland the value of this silver bullet is just not there. Bauble is better at stopping Forces of Whatever and allows Saga to find a sort of protection, a first for this deck.
8 maindeck blasts & 0 maindeck Bolts. Between Frog pushing red Delver out of the meta, small-creature decks being pushed down by Frog & Bowmasters, and Bolt being unhelpful against prevalent creatures (Frog, TKS, Nadu, Goyfs), I chose to make the maindeck strong against Frogs and combo.
Maindeck Blood Moon. I used to have Breya's Apprentice in this slot but the role that card fills is not so important anymore. I added Moon as a crutch since I didn't get much testing this year and was uncertain about some matchups, and then never saw a compelling reason to play a different card so I kept it.

On to the games:

R1: 2-0 vs Forgeraker
G1: On the play I keep Petal, 2x Mountain, ET, Grindstone, Painter - a T2 combo if needed. After the opponent dumps a bunch of Keys and Monoliths I decide it is needed, so ET -> LED and win.
G2: On the draw I keep a 2-Tomb hand with Karn and Painter. Kozilek's Command exiles the Painter which Karn retrieves, but then he has a Karn for Needle to shut down both our Karns. I deploy a Grindstone and the game shifts to Saga beatdown, where I am trying to knock out his Karn through Dismembers and Kommands without dealing too much damage to myself with my own Tombs. I am a bit short on blasts, but ET -> Needle to turn off his Saga plus Painter turning off Fleshraker to deprive him of chump blockers mean I eventually remove his Karn and win.

R2: 2-1 vs UB Tempo
G1: On the play I keep Bauble, SSG, City, Moon, Saga, Blast and decide to turbo out the Moon since I have it. The opponent naturally draws both his basics while I struggle to draw any lands at all. I blast three Frogs but don't have the mana to both advance the combo and deal with Nethergoyf so I loose.
G2: Goblins chew through removal spells, and Painter turning off Consign lets me resolve a Bridge which buys plenty of time to assemble the combo.
G3: I Surgical his Consigns which shows me two Brazen Borrowers, but due to being short on mana I can't activate Grindstone with blast backup so I use the combo to draw out one Borrower and replay Painter the following turn. I wait to draw a fourth mana source but on turn 5 of extra turns I have no real choice but to go for it. Turns out he Brainstormed away the second Borrower in favor of a Frog which I had blasted, so he had nothing and I got there.

R3: 0-2 vs Sneak & Show
G1: OTD I keep a hand that can either T1 Moon or T2 combo and has a blast, but he has T1 Emrakul off Show and Tell. I put in a Painter (a mistake, looking back) which gets annihilated the following turn. I do not draw Bridge to go with the Petal and Tomb so I lose.
G2: I mulligan some hands with terrible mana and keep Mountain, Petal, Engineer, Blast. I play out the mana, then we draw-go for a couple turns during which I do nothing, but after I draw Cratermaker plus a second Mountain I tap out (leaving Petal) for the Emrakul killer so that I don't have to guess what to put in for Show and Tell, which he now casts. Turns out it's Omniscience this time, so with the Engineer trigger on the stack (getting PDE) I give up the Petal to blast the Omniscience. This buys me some time, but I don't draw an artifact to swap for PDE and refill my hand so I'm completely cold to Sneak into double Archon.

R4: 2-1 vs Bant Nadu
G1: I have a T1 Welder with a blast and some useful stuff in hand, but he has a T2 Soul Cauldron and later a Keen-Eyed Curator so the goblins I keep drawing (four, in total) are basically blank. I ET -> Bridge but Bridge eats FoW so I lose.
G2: T1 Blood Moon isn't a complete lock as he has an Island and a Plains, but turning off all the fetches was enough of an obstacle to clear a path for the combo.
G3: Having boarded out some goblins I am not pleased to open a hand with two, but it seems better than mulliganing to 5 so I keep. This time there is no graveyard hate so the goblins do what they're supposed to do - turn PDE into Ancestral Recall, assemble the combo, blank removal, and win the game.

R5: 1-2 vs R Stompy
G1: I keep a Saga-Tomb-Karn hand and get run over.
G2: I play out a Grindstone, Bolt some stuff, then use Recruiter and its found Painter to bait out a Fury so that I can then play out Bridge + Welder with one card in hand. He has no answer so I untap and execute the combo.
G3: After losing a Welder to Bombardiers but having a Grindstone, I end up having to play Painter and blast the Bombardiers so he can't throw a flipped Fable at the Painter to kill it. He has no cards in hand so it's down to his topdeck as to whether I win or not - and it's another Bombardiers. Painter goes down, and goblins are worthless since he can just throw treasures at them so I need Bridge and/or more mana plus another Painter and I find neither.

R6: 0-2 vs Cradle Control
G1: I can't find the Painter to go with my Grindstone before getting blown out by Craterhoof.
G2: I keep what was possibly too reactive of a hand, with multiple Bolts and a Saga + Grindstone, but Force of Vigor on those two cards leaves me topdecking while also having to Bolt his random creatures. He topdecks some dumb creature that beats me.
I haven't quite figured out this matchup yet.

R7: 1-2 vs R Stompy
G1: I am on the draw, but the opponent kept a hand that clearly relied on Vexing Bauble to shut me out, so I casually draw into Painter plus Karn for Grindstone and go off with blast backup while he's stuck on one land.
G2: I slip a Painter through, then after he taps out for a Ring I combo on his following upkeep before I get buried in card advantage. He has an Untimely Malfunction to redirect the Grindstone to me and I have no blast.
G3: Same as G2.

Thoughts:

8 blasts was great. I might prefer more SSGs though since blasts are often only relevant with Painter in play and the format has become faster.
Maindeck Blood Moon should almost certainly be something else. It turned out to be unnecessary or bad in the ways that I usually find maindeck Moon effects to be bad (see R2G1). A maindeck Needle might have been better.
Karn was strong all day, in contrast to its mediocre performance in testing. I don't think it's necessary to go back to three copies though.
With Endurance and Orcish Bowmasters at probably record lows, it may be time to revisit Smuggler's Copter. It seems a bit too difficult to realistically threaten combat wins, and with 8 blasts I'm more interested in looting. I also find that Goblins are less likely to survive a turn cycle and Copter lets them still be useful in that situation. But then, if Null Rod becomes more prevalent due to the Forge deck Copter would not be a good idea.
ET was strong whenever it came up. Especially after watching all the event coverage, I am glad to be playing Shortcake instead of Fable.
Twinshot Sniper has been strong against Red Stompy in the past and may be worth another look now.

k_omega

02-10-2026, 01:33 AM

I went 5-2 for 2nd at a recent local tournament with:

4 Tomb, Saga, Mountain, fetches
2 City, Plateau
1 Furnace
3 SSG
2 Petal
1 Opal, LED

7 Blast
4 Painter, 3 Grindstone
3 Welder, Engineer
2 ET, Karn, Recruiter
1 Canonist, Magus, PDE, Cratermaker, Bridge, Lantern

3 Bolt
2 Surgical
1 Faerie Macabre, Rest in Peace, Moon, Bridge, Canonist, Hole, Needle, Grindstone, Crypt, Bridge

This is basically the same list I've been playing since 2023 but with more SSGs and a couple small changes for my local meta:

Maindeck Magus, sideboard Moon. Usually, if both cards are played, the enchantment is maindecked because it is easier to tutor early via ET whereas Recruiter -> Magus is slower. In my meta, however, the decks against which Moon effects are strong are also good enough without them except Lands, where Magus is much stronger since Boseiju does not kill it. This choice is to steal game 1 against Lands, at which it has performed well.
Sideboard Rest in Peace. This card was not necessary to fight pre-MH3 Oops because their ability to use the graveyard was more limited. Jack-o'-Lantern, Poxwalkers, and (at my LGS at least) Progenitus + Shenanigans make Memory's Journey more of a threat and combat damage a real possibility (still better to side out Bridge though). I wanted a card that shuts all of that down, and RiP has some utility against Emrakul if needed. This replaces the usual 4th Bolt because small-creature decks have been rare and non-threatening. I'm not yet sure about this slot; its future may depend on how Hexing Squelcher settles into the format.

Matches:

2-0 vs UR Delver
2-0 vs UB Tempo
0-2 vs TES
2-1 vs Oops
2-1 vs UG Omni-tell
-- Top 4 --
2-0 vs Eldrazi
1-2 vs TES (rematch)

I wasn't expecting this to be a report-worthy event so I took no notes and am going from memory on details.

R1: UR Delver
G1: My opening hand has Canonist, City, Plateau, SSG, REB, Painter. So the plan is to blast any Tamiyo, then stick Canonist and hopefully keep the Plateau around to control the stack while waiting for Grindstone or other action. This almost works except the Plateau gets Wastelanded after deploying the Canonist. I proceed to draw more lands, blasts, and SSGs and get in some damage against unflipped Delvers and non-delirious DRCs. Eventually though, I have to burn SSGs and blasts on a Murktide and two Delvers. I use the City to deploy a second Painter before using a topdecked Saga to get Grindstone for the win.

-2 ET, -2 Karn, -1 Canonist, -1 Magus
+3 Bolt, +1 Abrade, +1 Surgical, +1 Bridge

G2: On 5 cards, my opponent has Ponder into Hexing Squelcher against my two blasts. This becomes a problem when two Delvers land. After a Delver following a Brainstorm, I blast it to bait the suspected FoW which is there. Delver flip shows Consign, which I shuffle away with Surgical on Brainstorm to protect an upcoming Painter, then re-blast theh Delver. The opponent is now topdecking, so even though I'm at 9 having paid 8 life into Squelcher, goblin tricks + PDE stabilize against it while drawing me into Painter, Painter, Grindstone. Eventually I attack for lethal with combo backup.

R2: UB Tempo
G1: After getting Thoughtseized, I trade off some blasts for Tamiyo and a Murktide but a second Murktide plus a timely removal spell on Painter mean I have to topdeck Bridge or a blast. Fortunately, an earlier Canonist stops him from deploying multiple interaction pieces at once. So Engineer can exchange a construct for the dead Painter before Saga gets the Grindstone, and if he casts anything other than another removal spell I can combo in response on the one turn before Murktide kills me. He casts Hymn to Tourach and I win in response.

-2 ET, -1 Canonist, -1 Magus, -1 Lantern, -2 Karn
+3 Bolt, +1 Abrade, +1 Surgical, +1 Moon, +1 Bridge

G2: I keep Painter, Grindstone, blast, Bolt, Tomb, Mountain, Saga of which the Painter gets Thoughtseized. I play out the Grindstone which resolves, then draw some Welders which I hold until I'm sure he has no Bowmasters and I have an artifact to weld. The first Saga got Wastelanded, but a second one lets me make a construct to weld for Painter. He has Wasteland for the Ancient Tomb which leaves me short on mana for a while. I eventually find the mana and combo him, but he has boarded in one Emrakul and my Lantern and both Karns are in the sideboard. Fortunately at this point he was on one card in hand so two Painters get some relevan chip damage in. In response to his Thoughtseize I double-bolt him to 2 earning the concession.

R3: TES
G1: I know what this person is playing so on the play, mulligan to a 5 that Engineers for Canonist and can put in play on T2. He Gambles for a 50% T1 win which, naturally, he got.

-1 Magus, -1 Cratermaker, -1 Bridge, -1 Recruiter
+1 Canonist, +2 Surgical, +1 Needle
Needle is for Boseiju but also Runehorn Hellkite, which I was later told gets cut in this matchup.

G2: I keep a hand with blast but no SSG, and a T2 Engineer for Canonist gets wrecked by Echo into Silence followed by a storm kill. He cast a Hexing Squelcher at some point.

We played another postboard game for fun afterward and my opponent thought I might be mulliganing too hard for prison pieces when Painter+blast hands might be enough. According to him the T1 kills are almost always via Echo rather than Beseech. I'm not sure about that yet.

R4: Yorion Oops
G1: I know he usually plays Oops but when he reveals Yorion I decide I am not willing to mulligan to T1 Lantern or T1 Canonist if he might be playing D&T or some non-Oops thing. Naturally I get T1-ed.

-1 Magus, -1 Cratermaker, -1 Bridge, -2 Karn, -1 Welder, -1 Engineer
+2 Surgical, +1 Macabre, +1 Rest in Peace, +1 Crypt, +1 Needle, +1 Canonist

G2: I keep a 7 with Surgical as the only hate but with a good base of lands, Painter, blasts, and some other stuff. He turbos out a Dauthi Voidwalker, then discards both my blasts and the Surgical into the Voidwalker. I have Canonist though and Painter, so he can't both combo and stop my interaction on the same turn. Eventually he casts Spy, which gives him Narcomoebas but nothing else due to the Canonist. Since I have Painter + Grindstone, though only 2 lands for mana, on my upkeep he cashes in the Voidwalker to destroy the Grindstone. I respond by ET for Lantern to wipe the graveyard and win.

G3: I keep another dodgy 7 with Lantern as the only hate piece but with good action (land, Painter, multiple blasts) otherwise. He has a T1 tapland so I cast the Lantern and let him combo, then Journey for just Oracle. He has one card in hand and 2 blue sources, so after drawing a second red land I decide to play Painter and blast one of his blue sources in case his last card is Pact of Negation or Therapy. It is neither, so I win.

R5: UG Omni-tell
G1: I have some idea what he is playing, so when Karn resolves I immediately fetch Canonist. He then casts an Aluren which lets me freely drop PDE and Engineer fetching Painter. Having basically no action after my draw step though, I cast the Canonist to which he responds with Acererak. In order to not die I swap Opal for Painter and blast the Aluren, which resolves as does the Canonist. From there it's beatdown then Karn fetching Grindstone which earns a concession (he had drawn the Emrakul).

-1 LED, -1 Grindstone, -1 Magus
+1 Canonist, +2 Surgical

G2: I keep a hand on the strength of Blast + Surgical with Recruiter to stop Aluren by fetching Canonist. We both set up for a while, then after a Hedge Maze bins an Aluren and he casts Stock Up, I Surgical his Alurens and see a hand with S&T, Atraxa, Omniscience, 2 Brainstorm, and another Stock Up. I have the mana to Recruit Canonist and cast it with SSG + Blast backup, which should be enough if the Brainstorms don't find another S&T. I stop the first one, but then did not draw another Blast or Surgical to stop the second (or the third).

+1 Magus, +1 Moon
-1 Recruiter, -1 Grindstone
We're close to the time limit and I don't want to get a fast S&T dropped on me, and he has shown no inclination to preemptively fetch basics, so I bring in the Moon effects. A fast combo from me isn't worth much because of the Emrakul, and having seen his deck now I know that Aluren is just for Acererak so I'm not that concerned about it anymore.

G3: I keep 2x Saga, Tomb, SSG, Blast, Engineer. Engineer might not get cast, but Sagas can find both Grindstone and Lantern given enough time and Engineer can find Painter, so we have something to work toward. I lead on Saga, then draw Blood Moon which I cast using Tomb. Amazingly it resolves, so my Saga is now a permanent construct factory. I burn the one blast on a desperation Brainstorm and he has FoW now for it, but the Brainstorm finds nothing so I win.

Semifinals: Eldrazi
G1: I am on the draw and keep a hand witih Tomb + Painter, Engineer, lands, and some other stuff. Amazingly he does not have T1 Chalice, only a Cavern. I run out the Painter, he has an Eye which does nothing, so I untap and Engineer for Grindstone. Eye + Cavern + Wasteland he tries to Wastescape away the Painter which I explain does not work because it's not colorless. So he Wastelands the Tomb leaving me with Mountain + Petal + SSG only for mana. I draw Welder though, which I eventually use to swap Painter for the Grindstone then back for Painter after activating Grindstone for the win.

-1 Canonist, -1 Karn, -1 ET, -1 Lantern, -1 REB
+1 Bridge, +1 Abrade, +2 Bolt, +1 Moon
All the lock pieces are strong, and I don't want to expose myself to Chalice on 1 too much. One ET gets cut because of that and the Moons, but it might be better to keep it.

G2: I keep a hand with T1 Engineer and T2 Bridge, with PDE as a blocker if needed. This time he has a T1 2-drop but it is It that Heralds the End. I use Saga + SSG to drop Engineer for the other Bridge, holding onto Great Furnace to ensure I can get the Bridge next turn. He Thought-Knots away the Bridge in hand, so I swap Furnace for Bridge on his turn to prevent the 5/5 TKS from attacking. Eventually PDE stops his 2/2 and I topdeck Painter to go with a second Saga that is now about to find Grindstone which earns the concession.

Finals: TES (rematch from R3)
G1: I get T1ed with Veil of Summer backup.

-1 Magus, -1 Cratermaker, -1 Bridge
+1 Canonist, +1 Surgical, +1 Rest in Peace
Not bringing in Needle this time. Rest in Peace shuts down LED -> Echo better than Surgical, so I figured I'd try it on the play.

G2: I drop T1 Canonist off Saga + Petal and have the Ancient Tomb to immediately start making constructs as well as SSG + Blast for the bounce spell on Canonist. He eventually Burning Wishes for a second bounce spell, but I have Grindstone which makes the constructs + Canonist lethal.

-1 Rest in Peace
+1 Surgical
Surgical being castable T1 on the draw is more important.

G3: I mulligan to 5 with Blast but no SSG and get run over by Echo + Silence.

Observations:

Canonist was very strong all day. To have games like those are one of the reasons to play Shortcake over mono-red. However, I'm not sure 2 is enough to reliably beat current TES. I lost the games where I didn't drop it T1 and won the one where I did. Maybe I just don't fully understand the matchup yet.
In matchups where Karn is strong, 2 is too few.
SSG is quite excellent. I think the 3/2 split with Petals balances the surprise factor of SSG with enabling the artifact synergies.
Hexing Squelcher is better against us than it is for us (probably). I registered a low opinion of this card when it was spoiled but might test it anyway.

Thanks for reading. I'm happy to answer any questions.