Bizarro Stormy (or How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love Griselbrand) [Archive] - Page 2

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8bit9mm

06-14-2018, 03:04 PM

I was reading their guide on Tinfins (http://www.thrabenuniversity.com/?page_id=668) the other day and they do mention swapping to FM and Surgical if Tinfins and BR are the more popular GY decks in your area.

I think that it's still safe to hedge towards them having RiP/Containment Priest in g2, but be ready to swap countermeasures if you see FM/Surgical in g2; this is all assuming you're playing against a stock D&T player. If you know what hate your D&T players are packing, obviously adjust accordingly.

How I board against them:

If RiP/Containment Priest:

+2 Massacre
+0-2 Chain of Vapor

-2-4 Ponder
-0-1 Griselbrand

If Surgical or Macabre:

+2 Massacre
+2-3 Silent Gravestone

-3-4 Ponder
-1 Griselbrand
-0-1 CoBru

Trying to board in excess hate is bad news versus D&T, and we don't have clunkers like Duress in the main deck that are easy to cut. Ponder is definitely an easy cut, and 3rd Griselbrand is another easy shave. I think you can shave one CoBru if you are running 3 of them, but the creature kill mode is nice to have, if a bit slow in the face of Thalia.

I find myself bringing in 2 Decays, 1 Massacre, 2 Chain and the Trop against an unknown consideration. It may be overkill, but they have so many tools against us post-board, it's hard not to.

If they get me with Macabre or Surgical in G2, then I get got. But, if they have it and you're able to buy yourself time by killing their bears, you have a decent chance of beating a single piece of GY interaction.

G3 is where you get to board properly, usually knowing their full hate suite (assuming you didn't lose G1 and 2).

Acclimation

06-18-2018, 07:34 PM

Hey all, I've been fiddling with an extract of the data (pulled June 14th) from our shared data sheet, and made a Tableau dashboard with the data. It's not super fancy, and there are definitely holes in the data, but I feel it's fairly informative.

You can find the dashboard here (https://public.tableau.com/views/Bizarro/Dashboard1?:embed=y&:display_count=yes&publish=yes)

Note, it's definitely a work in progress, as I'm going to continue tinkering with it during down time at work (and adding more data to the extract whenever we get another solid set of entries to the data sheet).

NedB37

06-19-2018, 01:35 PM

Nice work!

If only i had LEDs :frown:

Acclimation

06-20-2018, 02:11 PM

In doing some research on various hate cards that decks are playing, I'm noticing an increase in the number of Containment Priest being played.

I think for Green Splash lists, Abrupt Decay is already coming in against the decks that play it (D&T, Miracles, Stoneblade, Deadguy, pretty much every white deck), so that's probably a sufficient answer to the card (especially since you can use it to answer the card with reanimation on the stack).

White splash lists might have to lean a bit harder on Chain of Vapor as an answer, or otherwise consider running something like Swords to Plowshares in the side (which I've done with Tinfins in the past with a fair amount of success). Another option is to use Silence as a way to bait it out, then use CoBru to remove it before going off.

Grixis lists have Abrade and Rending Volley as 2 good options, as well as Chain.

Has anyone playing Green tried City of Solitude yet? It's a bit expensive at 3 cmc, but a resolved copy means you don't have to worry about interaction on your turn, at the loss of being able to Entomb or Brainstorm or fetch on your opponent's turn. Considering that a lot of non-chalice decks are using a large blend of interactive spells (flash creatures, surgical, counter magic, DRS, Karakas), it might be a worthy inclusion.

JackaBo

06-20-2018, 05:55 PM

Went 2-2 today. Won against lands and elves and lost against deadguy ale and deathblade.
Gravestones were awesome.
Carpet was deece
Azcanta was too slow

Deck is kinda hard because it's not certain if you're a T1 deck or you can grind. Intuitively i feel that the deck need more action, but that may come from inexperience. Boarding is also hard because the space is so tight.

Acclimation

06-20-2018, 10:05 PM

Deck is kinda hard because it's not certain of you're a T1 deck or you can grind. Intuitively i feel that the deck need more action, but that may come from inexperience. Boarding is also hard because the space is so tight.

The weird thing is, is that the deck is a little bit of both. The t1 potential is pretty high, and drawing 21 cards is a super easy way to win the game, especially with all the fast mana. You also have the ability to grind pretty well, as you can just jam Reanimation spells until one sticks, or draw Past in Flames and just recast everything from before. You can rebuild pretty easily too, as dude in the yard+reanimation can just turn the game around.

As far as more action, I've been wondering if I can cram another Corpse Dance in, or maybe another PiF or MA, just to have a little bit more business, as I've often found myself in situations where I just need one piece of action to get there. It's possible that cutting a cantrip might be right, but I'm not 100% on that just yet.

Zavec

06-21-2018, 03:10 AM

3-0 at a weekly, broke my losing streak! Will update the spreadsheet with my past few weeks of games tomorrow since it's getting pretty late.

After a few weeks of the local meta being all over the place, I decided to say screw it and just try to win faster. With that in mind, I played this 75:

3 Griselbrand
1 Magus of the Mind

2 Chrome Mox
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Lotus Petal
4 Dark Ritual

2 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Gitaxian Probe
3 Cabal Therapy
1 Thoughtseize
2 Collective Brutality
4 Entomb
1 Mastermind's Acquisition
1 Past in Flames

4 Shallow Grave
2 Corpse Dance
1 Unburial Rites

1 Bayou
1 Bloodstained Mire
3 Misty Rainforest
4 Polluted Delta
1 Island
1 Swamp
2 Underground Sea

Sideboard:
1 Tropical Island
2 Xantid Swarm
2 Carpet of Flowers
2 Chain of Vapor
3 Silent Gravestone
1 Thoughtseize
2 Echoing Truth
1 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Tendrils of Agony

MVP was definitely unburial rites, made the deck so much faster. Had several turn one's because of it. Even if you fizzle after drawing 14 instead of 21 it sticks around, which is usually good enough. Matches were mostly uneventful, couple of death and taxes and a sneak and show. I cut two brainstorms to make room for it and the fourth LED, reasoning that usually we're looking for specific cards, and ponder is better at that than brainstorm since it sees one more card.

Only notable game was game 3 against sneak and show, where he got a grafdigger's cage into play and I could not find bounce for the life of me. The solution was to hard-cast griselbrand by cracking LEDs in response to a cantrip. Good times.

Still not sure how I feel about the trop in the sideboard, if I cut anything that's probably the one. I'm pretty happy with this 75 for now though.

thecrav

06-24-2018, 11:07 PM

https://i.imgur.com/PfUYRt8.png

bleedth3sky

06-26-2018, 05:23 AM

Zavec

06-28-2018, 01:40 PM

There is something to be said for that aspect of brainstorm, but I felt like ponder seeing a card deeper if necessary and not locking you was better.

1-1 this week, kept some suspect hands against UR delver, and beat BR reanimator. They were really not expecting silent gravestones, it was great.

Acclimation

06-30-2018, 02:24 AM

Tinkered with my build tonight at a FNM, played four rounds going 2-2 beating UB reanimator & burn, losing to Ice Station Zebra (Depths Tinfins) & 4c Loam.

Changes:

-4 Probe
+3 Unmask +1 Unburial Rites

SB:
1 Tendrils
3 Silent Gravestone
1 Chain of Vapor
1 Echoing Truth
3 Thopter Foundry
2 Sword of the Meek
3 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Batterskull

We were discussing creature plans in the Discord when I mentioned that I was wanting to try a board with Thopter/Sword, since I impulse bought Chinese Foundries and a Russian Sword a few months back, as you can Entomb for the Sword and have Petal and LED to get the engine going, when .dk suggested SFM+Batterskull. After checking my notes, I noticed that 80% of my matches involve boarding in bounce+gravestone, with a few times boarding in Serenity or Silence, so I figured I could get away with something cheesy for an FNM.

I only boarded the plan in against Burn, as a quick Batterskull or Foundry Combo can lock them out of the game, especially since I won g1.

I lost g2 without seeing a reanimation spell or SFM (had griselbrand in the yard and shredded him with discard), but g3 I had the nuts. Opening hand was LED, double fetch, SFM, Foundry, Cabal Therapy, Cabal Ritual. Plan was to fetch batterskull and win out. T1 blind therapy for Guide, whiff and see Rift Boltx2, Swiftspear, Lava Spike, Mountains. He top decks Guide, and on top I have a Petal- this changes my game plan. I draw petal, then cast SFM, fetched for Sword of the Meek. Then, I flashback Therapy to nab both Rift Bolts. T3 I cast Foundry, play Petal and LED. Crack LED to discard Sword. Use LED mana to sac Petal, end up with 3 tokens. After a couple of tense turns, I draw another LED and end up getting ahead on board and winning.

Was pretty much the best possible draw for the combo, although some number of rituals could have powered it out a turn faster.

Other deck thoughts: I was inspired by a Tinfins list from a Japanese tournament that played no Probe, 9 discard, and Spellseeker, and decided to cut Probe for more discard spells. Unburial Rites was played once and was very good. Having more discard was very helpful, since it let me power through hate a lot better.

Next event I'm going to play a more stock list with Spellseeker to give it a shot, as it grabs everything beyond CD, MA, and PiF, and Unmask if I decide to play it.

I'm kind of hoping for a Probe ban, because I feel like the free info is really good to the point where playing less than 4 isn't ideal, but it comes at the cost of other random spells we could play. Having 3 more discard spells helped negate the loss of info. Need to test more.

JackaBo

06-30-2018, 04:40 AM

I feel you on probe. On one hand i think it's so busted every deck should play it. Like, if you can't leverage the info in some way, you're playing a bad deck.

But in this deck, the info is useful, but it kinda dillutes both griselbrand draw sevens and magus flips. Drawing one for 2 life is a bad deal with Griz on the battlefield.

.dk

07-02-2018, 11:46 AM

Welp, and now we know the fate of probe... and DRS. Primer updates in the works

Acclimation

07-02-2018, 12:36 PM

.dk

07-02-2018, 01:19 PM

Primer updated with some initial updates regarding the Gitaxian Probe and Deathrite Shaman bans. Primary edits were around the decklist at the top, Thoughtseize, and Collective Brutality sections.

.dk

07-03-2018, 01:52 PM

Another primer update - this one includes a Burning Wish shell under the Burning Wish section. Turns out without probe, that frees up slots for Burning Wish. Might be more viable now?

4 Brainstorm
3 Cabal Ritual
1 Cabal Therapy
2 Collective Brutality
2 Corpse Dance
4 Entomb
3 Griselbrand
3 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Lotus Petal
1 Magus of the Mind
1 Past in Flames
4 Ponder
4 Shallow Grave
4 Thoughtseize
4 Dark Ritual
3 Burning Wish
1 Flex slot (Extra discard, Preordain, 4th Wish, etc)
4 Polluted Delta
4 Bloodstained Mire
2 Underground Sea
1 Badlands
1 Volcanic Island
1 Swamp
1 Island

SB:
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Past in Flames
1 Infernal Tutor
1 Exhume
3 Empty the Warrens
2 Abrade
2 Silent Gravestone
2 Chain of vapor
2 Flex

quadich

07-03-2018, 03:25 PM

.dk

07-03-2018, 05:53 PM

hey,

i was wondering about something that has been near and dear to my heart for some time now:

Is there a high res version of the banner? I would love to print it to use as a playmat.

kind regards

Let me check - there is somewhere, just need to find it. And ask Richard Cheese for permission. :)

Also, small updates to the primer for videos:

Andrea Mengucci recording with 5C Bizzaro Stormy: https://youtu.be/pY40zl9oMKI

Myself, Acclimation, and thecrav are going to try to record matches vs. decks and publish periodically. Stay tuned...

mistervader

07-03-2018, 11:24 PM

Is there a reason we wouldn't be using Unmasks now? I think running 1 or 2 would be great to facilitate early wins without mana investment.

Acclimation

07-04-2018, 03:46 AM

Unmask is good as maybe the 8th or 9th discard spell. Since we play a little bit more like a storm deck, exiling cards to pay the alternative cost can be a little steep.

I played Unmask as a 3 of in a build with 6 discard spells and I hated it, but I played it as a 3 of in a build with 9 discard spells and liked it (3 unmask, 3 therapy, 2 cobru, 1 seize).

YMMV, but that's been my experience with the card in this deck.

Darkgobs

07-04-2018, 04:25 AM

My initial build thoughts post Probe ban:

-4 Probe

+1 Ponder (4th Ponder)
+1-2 Discard (7-8 slots)
+1 Unburial Rites
or
+1 Cabal Ritual

I'm not sure if I would make any changes to the sideboard, as Gravestone is still good value, as I would imagine more Surgical or Faerie Macabre or Reanimator for the short term while people figure out the new best deck.

I'm thinking that this discard package is where I'm going to start:

4 Thoughtseize
2 Collective Brutality
1 Cabal Therapy

CoBru loses some value, as I really liked it for hitting DRS in g1. Still gets rid of Thalia, Eidolon, etc, so it's still worth having at least 2.

Happy Brewing, everyone!

https://youtu.be/Lw-jmQD1404

Could you please share one more time your 75 with us? That would be really nice, because I went through the whole thread and couldn't find an up-to-date UBw list (or would it be this one (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?32342-Bizarro-Stormy-(or-How-I-Learned-to-Stop-Worrying-and-Love-Griselbrand)&p=1046529&viewfull=1#post1046529)?), and I'd like to give this gorgeous deck a shot right now (I'm usually a Tin Fins player, so I have to try this one! :cool: )
Thanks!

.dk

07-04-2018, 12:33 PM

Could you please share one more time your 75 with us? That would be really nice, because I went through the whole thread and couldn't find an up-to-date UBw list (or would it be this one (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?32342-Bizarro-Stormy-(or-How-I-Learned-to-Stop-Worrying-and-Love-Griselbrand)&p=1046529&viewfull=1#post1046529)?), and I'd like to give this gorgeous deck a shot right now (I'm usually a Tin Fins player, so I have to try this one! :cool: )
Thanks!

Here's a start. No idea how good Silence is - it used to be pretty good vs. Canadian Threshold many moons ago, so we'll see. And no idea if Serenity + Hurkyl's is necessary. Play around with the sideboard and see what works. Also, the 2nd Cabal Therapy maindeck could easily be something else - 2nd Acquisition, Unburial Rites, 3rd Cabal Ritual, 2nd PIF would be cards I would consider there.

4 Flooded Strand
1 Island
4 Polluted Delta
1 Scrubland
1 Swamp
1 Tundra
2 Underground Sea
1 Volcanic Island
4 Brainstorm
2 Cabal Ritual
2 Cabal Therapy
2 Collective Brutality
2 Corpse Dance
4 Dark Ritual
4 Entomb
3 Griselbrand
3 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Lotus Petal
1 Magus of the Mind
1 Mastermind's Acquisition
1 Past in Flames
4 Ponder
4 Shallow Grave
4 Thoughtseize
Sideboard:

2 Chain of Vapor
2 Hurkyl's Recall
2 Massacre
2 Serenity
3 Silence
3 Silent Gravestone
1 Tendrils of Agony

Acclimation

07-04-2018, 01:51 PM

Could you please share one more time your 75 with us? That would be really nice, because I went through the whole thread and couldn't find an up-to-date UBw list (or would it be this one (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?32342-Bizarro-Stormy-(or-How-I-Learned-to-Stop-Worrying-and-Love-Griselbrand)&p=1046529&viewfull=1#post1046529)?), and I'd like to give this gorgeous deck a shot right now (I'm usually a Tin Fins player, so I have to try this one! :cool: )
Thanks!

Yep! That list is my baseline list that I tweak things from. To start off in a Probe-less world, this is where I'm at:

4 Marsh Flats
4 Polluted Delta
1 Swamp
1 Island
1 Scrubland
1 Tundra
2 Underground Sea

4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder

2 Cabal Ritual
4 Dark Ritual
3 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Lotus Petal

4 Thoughtseize
2 Collective Brutality
1 Cabal Therapy

3 Griselbrand
1 Magus of the Mind

1 Past in Flames
4 Shallow Grave
4 Entomb
2 Corpse Dance
1 Mastermind's Acquisition

2 Flex Slots

Sideboard:
2 Chain of Vapor
2 Massacre
3 Silence
1 Plains
2 Serenity
3 Silent Gravestone
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Disenchant

I think this next FNM my flex slots are going to be Spellseeker and either Unburial Rites or Preordain, with 1 Unmask or another Cabal Ritual as other options I'm considering.

No sb changes quite yet, as I'm unsure what other people are going to be packing.

Darkgobs

07-04-2018, 07:15 PM

Yep! That list is my baseline list that I tweak things from. To start off in a Probe-less world, this is where I'm at:

4 Marsh Flats
4 Polluted Delta
1 Swamp
1 Island
1 Scrubland
1 Tundra
2 Underground Sea

4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder

2 Cabal Ritual
4 Dark Ritual
3 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Lotus Petal

4 Thoughtseize
2 Collective Brutality
1 Cabal Therapy

3 Griselbrand
1 Magus of the Mind

1 Past in Flames
4 Shallow Grave
4 Entomb
2 Corpse Dance
1 Mastermind's Acquisition

2 Flex Slots

Sideboard:
2 Chain of Vapor
2 Massacre
3 Silence
1 Plains
2 Serenity
3 Silent Gravestone
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Disenchant

I think this next FNM my flex slots are going to be Spellseeker and either Unburial Rites or Preordain, with 1 Unmask or another Cabal Ritual as other options I'm considering.

No sb changes quite yet, as I'm unsure what other people are going to be packing.

Thanks Acclimation & dk. . I will try thoses lists and see how it goes!

.dk

07-04-2018, 07:30 PM

Acclimation

07-04-2018, 08:31 PM

Good luck!

I'm very interested to see how much Leyline pops up after the unbanning - if it seems to be common enough, that might be reason enough to consider Monastery Mentor in sideboard as we do in Tin Fins from time to time.

If Leyline becomes popular, I'm just going to play Belcher full time until they stop packing the Leylines.

Zavec

07-05-2018, 10:21 PM

.dk

07-05-2018, 11:42 PM

Does the ban change how much we want collective brutality? Without deathrites to kill it looks a lot less appealing, though looking at the other options there might not be anything better after you've maxed out on thoughtseize.

Duress can't put a creature in the yard, but with four entombs, four thoughtseizes and 3-4 LEDs does it matter as much? There's also unmask, but I don't think I'd want more than one of those.

Collective Brutality is still good - all modes are still relevant. There will likely be more diverse hate bears being played now - Teeg, Canonist, Meddling Mage, Revoker, etc. It still deals with all of those. It's not "essential" like in the DRS meta, but still quite good. My current discard suite is 4 Thoughtseize, 2 Collective Brutality, 1 Cabal Therapy. Unmask I think would be fine if you go to 4 Griselbrand and up the black count slightly higher - but overall I don't like it all that much in this deck. Exiling cards is pretty bad at building storm count for Magus.

Acclimation

07-06-2018, 12:23 AM

Collective Brutality is still good - all modes are still relevant. There will likely be more diverse hate bears being played now - Teeg, Canonist, Meddling Mage, Revoker, etc. It still deals with all of those. It's not "essential" like in the DRS meta, but still quite good. My current discard suite is 4 Thoughtseize, 2 Collective Brutality, 1 Cabal Therapy. Unmask I think would be fine if you go to 4 Griselbrand and up the black count slightly higher - but overall I don't like it all that much in this deck. Exiling cards is pretty bad at building storm count for Magus.

EIDOLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOON (https://media.gannett-cdn.com/29906170001/29906170001_5565327305001_5565327065001-vs.jpg?pubId=29906170001&quality=10)

CoBru is a swiss army knife of a card. Sure, DRS isn't a thing anymore, but it still has a lot of utility.

And if you don't want to play it, then don't. Do what feels right to you.

.dk

07-06-2018, 11:28 AM

EIDOLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOON (https://media.gannett-cdn.com/29906170001/29906170001_5565327305001_5565327065001-vs.jpg?pubId=29906170001&quality=10)

CoBru is a swiss army knife of a card. Sure, DRS isn't a thing anymore, but it still has a lot of utility.

And if you don't want to play it, then don't. Do what feels right to you.

Yeah, that guy too. Really in general, there are still a multitude of good x/2 and x/1 dudes to snipe with it - it's a super versatile card. Oh, kill your flipped delver, snag your force of will, and bin a griselbrand? Don't mind if I do...

Acclimation

07-07-2018, 01:43 PM

Played a short, 3 round FNM last night and went 1-2 vs Bant Knightfall (0-2) UR Delver(2-0) and Maverick Depths (1-2) with a Spellseeker list. Small sample size, especially since my Bant opponent drew every piece of countermagic and hate and even with a t2 combo drawing 21 I still fizzled, my Delver opponent drew nothing to stop me, and the Maverick opponent was able to t2 Teeg into Kambal both games. Sometimes you run roughshod on people, sometimes you get runover. That being said, I do have some thoughts on Spellseeker, as well as a sick line that unfortunately didn't get there.

List (adapted from above):
4 Marsh Flats
4 Polluted Delta
1 Swamp
1 Island
1 Scrubland
1 Tundra
2 Underground Sea

4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder

2 Cabal Ritual
4 Dark Ritual
3 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Lotus Petal

4 Thoughtseize
2 Collective Brutality
1 Cabal Therapy

3 Griselbrand
1 Magus of the Mind

1 Past in Flames
4 Shallow Grave
4 Entomb
2 Corpse Dance
1 Mastermind's Acquisition

2 Flex Slots (SpellSeeker and Unburial Rites)

Sideboard:
1 Chain of Vapor
2 Massacre
2 Silence
1 Hurkyl's Recall
2 Serenity
3 Silent Gravestone
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Disenchant
1 Swords to Plowshares

SB changes: I realized that with Spellseeker, it might not be a bad idea to diversify up some SB cards to include a few niche spells that could be tutored by it, so I swapped a Silence for a StP, and a Chain for a Hurkyl's.

G2 Against my Bant opponent, I had both Griselbrand exiled due to surgical, 3 Entomb, 3 Shallow in the GY, 1 Cabal Ritual, a handful of lands, an LED, and some Brainstorm. 3 Lands in play, with LED, Brainstorm, Thoughtseize, Past in Flames, Cabal Therapy, Mastermind's Acquisition and something else. I fire off thoughtseize (at 4 life down to 2), snag his Force (Kotor, Retreat, Land in hand). Brainstorm, draw Dark Ritual, SpellSeeker, and Disenchant. I tank for a bit, then put back Disenchant and the other random card. Play LED, Ritual, crack LED for Red, Flashback PiF, FB Rit+Cabal. Shallow Grave Spellseeker, grab other cabal ritual. Cast Ritual. Sac seeker to Therapy, reanimate with Shallow Grave, grab Dark Ritual. Realize I'm 1 mana short of getting MA+Tendrils. Lose in 3 turns. EDIT- I didn't have Petal, that's why I had to crack LED for R and have BBBRRR floating with PiF in yard.

Might be worth having another Cabal Ritual in a Spellseeker build.

Random other thoughts: it's really awkward to stare down Kambal, since it has 3 Toughness and doesn't get answered by Massacre. I don't think it's worth running a Virtue's Ruin, but it's always worth considering if your meta is infested with swarms of white creatures that all don't get cleanly answered by Massacre. I did run into a scenario where I was at 1 life vs Maverick that I wanted to fire off discard to name Swords, but only had Thoughtseize. Dude had Crop Rotation for Bog (I had entomb afterward to reanimate) but he did have the StP, since he drew himself down to 5 with Sylvan Library. It's probably still correct to run mostly Thoughtseize, but it definitely felt bad in that one situation.

.dk

07-08-2018, 09:22 PM

Primer updated with a link to Caleb Scherer's stream from a few days ago with Burning Wish Bizzaro Stormy:

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/281515571

Zavec

07-09-2018, 01:43 AM

The burning wish build is interesting, I might play around with that. I guess it's a question of if that's better, or carpet is, because the mana probably isn't good enough to get red and green with all the wastelands I expect to see now.

Only had time to watch three of the matches so far, but definitely worth checking out. There were some awesome lines there that I definitely would have missed.

Matsaya

07-09-2018, 08:38 AM

Made 3-1 in local FNM with this list.
The only loose was 1-2 against TES. Game 1 he killed me on turn 1 and game 3 I keep a greedy 6 cards no land hand, but with ponder, brainstorm, petal and business. Scry : no manasource. Draw : no manasource. Petal + ponder : no manasource, shufle : no manasource. My opponent killed my 3-4 turn laters, the turn before I was finally able to combo off.

All others games went 2-0.
I believed that only 2 of the kills were due to the Magus, the other were either attack of griselbrand + natural tendrils, or double entomb onto tendrils 1 PiF, or the opponent just scooped at some point (knowing the combo).

My victory were against sneak & show, stoneblade and bant. The transformative sideboard came in a handy a few times, but not too much.
If you want to use this kind of sideboard, I believe that the right thing to do is to keep a little bit of combo pieces after boarding.
I don't say it is the most efficient sideboard, but my god it is fun.

1 Badlands
4 Brainstorm
2 Cabal Ritual
2 Collective Brutality
2 Corpse Dance
4 Dark Ritual
4 Entomb
3 Griselbrand
1 Island
3 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Lotus Petal
1 Magus of the Mind
2 Marsh Flats
1 Past in Flames
4 Polluted Delta
4 Ponder
2 Scalding Tarn
4 Shallow Grave
1 Swamp
1 Tendrils of Agony
4 Thoughtseize
1 Tundra
1 Unburial Rites
2 Underground Sea
2 Unmask

//Sideboard
2 Echoing Truth
2 Flusterstorm
4 Monastery Mentor
1 Scrubland
2 Serenity
4 Thing in the Ice

AngryBacon

07-09-2018, 09:45 AM

This is my first iteration after the banning of Gitaxian Probe:

Good inspiration from my Doomsday sideboard. Haven't tested the Spellseeker yet, got the urge to test it seeing Acclimation's BW draft. We had a discussion on the Discord about it as well. Turns out it would be a fantastic top-deck mid to late-game.

- It tutors whatever business card we're missing pre-combo
- It's a creature with regards to Cabal Therapy
- Isn't really messing with graveyard order, since if you do reanimate it, you get an extra copy of Shallow Grave with it anyway
- Tutors possible sideboard cards in G2 and G3

1 Badlands
2 Bloodstained Mire
1 Island
4 Polluted Delta
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Scrubland
1 Swamp
1 Underground Sea
1 Volcanic Island
4 Brainstorm
3 Burning Wish
2 Cabal Ritual
2 Cabal Therapy
1 Chrome Mox
2 Collective Brutality
2 Corpse Dance
4 Dark Ritual
4 Entomb
3 Griselbrand
3 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Lotus Petal
1 Magus of the Mind
1 Past in Flames
3 Ponder
4 Shallow Grave
1 Spellseeker
3 Thoughtseize

Sideboard:
1 Cabal Therapy
1 Consign // Oblivion
1 Empty the Warrens
1 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Massacre
1 Meltdown
1 Pyroblast
2 Serenity
3 Silent Gravestone
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Tendrils of Agony

@Matsaya I was on the man plan right before the ban but was using Dark Confidant instead of Thing in the Ice, had a Cavern of Souls as well. It's pretty insane versus Miracles, especially when you have the Cavern. However there are plenty of other common matchups at my locals that makes the 5 remaining available cards pretty lacking in number to face their hate.

.dk

07-17-2018, 06:11 PM

Played in a small-ish cash tournament over the weekend with like 32 people (ugh). 5 rounds, cut to Top 8…. Here is what I brought:

1 Badlands
1 Bayou
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Polluted Delta
1 Swamp
1 Tropical Island
2 Underground Sea
1 Volcanic Island
4 Brainstorm
3 Burning Wish
2 Cabal Ritual
2 Cabal Therapy
1 Collective Brutality
2 Corpse Dance
4 Dark Ritual
4 Entomb
3 Griselbrand
3 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Lotus Petal
1 Magus of the Mind
1 Past in Flames
4 Ponder
4 Shallow Grave
3 Thoughtseize
Sideboard:
2 Abrupt Decay
3 Carpet of Flowers
1 Consign // Oblivion
2 Echoing Truth
1 Empty the Warrens
1 Reanimate
1 Massacre
1 Meltdown
1 Reverent Silence
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Thoughtseize

Very short tournament report…

Round 1 - Sneak and Show.

G1. He played islands, a ponder, and then flusterstormed my CoBru on Turn 2. I then played a lotus petal, dark ritual, and killed him.

G2. He mulled a bit, cast show and tell and put in Emrakul, and I put in Griselbrand. I won.

Round 2- BR reanimator.

I lost the die roll. He made a griselbrand T1 and cast Unmask - I had a mediocre hand so I just scooped in response.

Game 2, I had a pretty decent hand with discard. I thought seize him and take his reanimate. Leaving him with animate dead, chrome mox, and land. He of course rips entomb and kills me. Cool.

Round 3 - Steel Stompy.

I’m pretty sure this is our worst matchup. I had a really good 7, but lost the die roll. He casts Chalice on 1. Then Chalice on 0 and Steel Overseer. Then Steel Overseer and Chalice on 2. I’m dead.

Game 2 he starts with leyline into chalice on 1. I have Echoing Truth and have to make a decision as to what to bounce. I honestly don’t remember anymore, but I didn’t have enough answers overall and got stomped.

Round 4 - Miracles.

This was a cool match. We played a grindy game 1, going back and forth with disruption, and eventually I combo out and kill him. He played Back to Basics at one point, which I answered with Burning Wish for Reverent Silence. Good times.

Game 2 started off similar to game 1 - I had a bunch of choices to make with what to entomb for when I had openings, as well as Burning Wish. I’m positive I made a couple mistakes here, as there were so many lines I could have taken. I eventually get to a point where I have entomb, some rituals, and burning wish in hand (with a full stocked graveyard with discard, cantrips, and rituals), but I know he has a Force in hand. I also have a burning wish in hand, so I could wish for discard and try for it next turn. However, he was low on cards with a Jace in play, so I didn’t want to give him the opportunity to start burying me in card advantage. In my upkeep, I cast entomb - intending to get Griselbrand if that resolves. This gets force of willed. He’s down to 1 card and tapped out, so I cast rituals, burning wish, and cast Empty the Warrens for 10 goblins.

Go to his turn - he casts Mentor. Shit. He makes some tokens after brainstorming with Jace. I attack him down a bit (and leave Jace in play), and if he bricks on his next draw and brainstorm, I can win with exactsies. Possible I should have attacked Jace here, but I didn’t. Pass back to him, he remakes some tokens and passes. I top deck Entomb - which likely wins the game here. So, I attack him with 7 goblins, forcing his play - he casts swords on a goblin, snapcaster, swords, and takes 0 damage while trading snapcaster and a token for my team. Then, now that he has an empty hand, I entomb for past in flames, cast all of my rituals, ponder, entomb for griselbrand, and flash back Empty the Warrens for 20 more Goblins. This likely seals the deal unless he top decks a terminus, but leaving griselbrand in the yard gives me an out of top decking reanimation in case he does. Turns out he didn’t have terminus anyway, so I won the game.

Was a really interesting game with lots of interesting decisions.

Round 5 - Miracles

This one was also interesting - but I don’t remember the details all that well. If I can piece together what happened in my notes, I’ll update this. I remember it being an incredibly close match. I believe I lost game 1, won game 2 by paying for a Flusterstorm with a storm count of 12 (thanks Carpet of Flowers!) and then continuing to combo from there. And I lose game 3 to… something.

Overall, I did like my list a lot - I think I got a little unlucky in my matchups. I was missing Ground Seal/Gravestone vs. Miracles a little bit - but I honestly don’t know what else I would have taken out for them, as I was already boarding in 3 Carpets and 2 Decays vs. them. Consign // Oblivion I think was a poor choice given the other answers I was already running, but I’m not positive on what I would replace it with as of yet. Could possibly go -1 Carpet, -1 Consign//Oblivion, +2 Gravestone, and swap Reanimate back to Exhume. I really liked the main deck configuration though. I could see swapping the Therapy and Collective Brutality counts.

I also am really liking Burning Wish right now, as there is wide diversity in hate other decks are bringing in against us. This gives us flexibility with being able to answer the variety of hate.

mistervader

07-18-2018, 08:50 AM

.dk

07-18-2018, 11:23 AM

Do you guys think the recent banning would lead to much stronger GY hate than what we encountered most of the time?

I'm asking this because it feels like the Silent Gravestones now don't do enough to protect me come Game 2 as they did prior to the bannings. What would you suggest as replacements?

Yes, graveyard hate is more diverse now, which makes it more difficult to combat as diversity takes more sideboard slots to answer. That's actually the reason I've switched to the Burning Wish list above - you can support a variety of answers that way, along with an orthogonal line that doesn't use the graveyard in Empty the Warrens.

JackaBo

07-18-2018, 05:21 PM

Yes, graveyard hate is more diverse now, which makes it more difficult to combat as diversity takes more sideboard slots to answer. That's actually the reason I've switched to the Burning Wish list above - you can support a variety of answers that way, along with an orthogonal line that doesn't use the graveyard in Empty the Warrens.

I like this tech!

Acclimation

07-20-2018, 05:51 PM

One of the biggest discussions we've had on the discord over the last 2 weeks is what sort of anti-hate should we be packing, and what graveyard hate are other decks playing. Since it's been about 2 weeks post ban, I did an informal data collection yesterday (June 19th) to see what the top decks were, and what hate are they packing. I only looked at cards that target graveyards, as well as Containment Priest since it hoses reanimation as well. Using the metagame function of tcdecks, I looked at the latest 10 lists (or as many lists post banning an archetype had posted), and got an idea what blend of hate and what range of cards to expect from each archetype. This list will likely be out of date in a month or two, since graveyard strategies have a huge target on their back, but it should give us an idea what to expect from each match-up.

(Note, big wall of text, but at the bottom I do have a summary)

First, here are the list of decks that comprise the meta game, from both Paper and MTGO events. I also tracked how many hate cards these decks played, listing the max hate I saw in a list, the least amount of hate in a list, and the average number of hate cards. I also noted whether or not a deck played a maindeck hate card as well. For some of the archetypes, I lumped them together, so Storm is both ANT and TES, Grixis is both Pyromancer and Control, BUG is all BUG control variants, and so on, as they all tend to have similar plans and play the same hate cards.

The big take away is that most decks are running 3-5 graveyard hate cards. There are a few decks that run 1 piece of MD hate, and those are all obvious decks that I'll point out below.

Deck
# of Tops
%
Avg # hate cards
Min GY hate
Max
# MD hate

Miracles
20
12%
3
2
5
0

Death & Taxes
18
11%
5
4
6
1

RUG
16
10%
3
2
4
0

Grixis
15
9%
3
2
3
0

Sneak
12
7%
3
2
7
0

Storm
11
7%
2
0
3
0

Stoneblade
11
7%
4
3
5
0

Lands
9
5%
1
1
1
1

Eldrazi
8
5%
4
4
5
0

BR Reanimator
7
4%
4
0
5
0

Dragon Stompy
8
5%
4
4
6
0

Burn
5
3%
2
2
4
0

Turbo Depths
6
4%
2
2
5
1

Maverick
4
2%
5
3
5
1-2

Elves
4
2%
5
3
5
0-1

UB Reanimator
2
1%
3
0
3
0

BUG
3
2%
5
3
5
0-1

Dredge
3
2%
4
0
6
0

Bant
2
1%
4
4
4
1

The next table contains the hate cards each deck is playing. Most decks are playing a range of these cards. The ones marked with an asterix * denote uncommon/rare hate cards for that archetype (meaning, 1 random list played the card)

Deck
Surgical
Leyline
RiP
Faerie Macabre
Containment Priest
Grafdigger's Cage
Nihil Spellbomb/Tormod's Crypt/Relic of Progenitus
Remorseful Cleric
Scavaging Ooze
Bojuka Bog
Random Other Targeted Hate
Extirpate

Miracles
0-3
0
0-2
0
1-2
0
0-1
0
0
0
0
0

Death & Taxes
0-3
0
0-2
0-3
0-2
0-1
0-1*
1
0
0
0
0

RUG
2-3
0
0
0
0
0-1
0
0
0-1*
0
0
0

Grixis
2-3
0
0
0
0
0-1
0
0
0
0
0
0

Sneak
0-2
0-4*
0
0
0
0-4
0
0
0
0
0
0

Storm
0-3
0
0
0
0
0
0-2*
0
0
0
0
0

Stoneblade
0-3
0
0-3
0
0-2
0
0
0
0
0
0
0

Lands
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
1
0
0

Eldrazi
0
4
0
0-1
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
0

BR Reanimator
0-2
0-4
0
0-1
0
0
0
0
0
0
1*
0

Dragon Stompy
0-2
0-4
0
0-4
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
0

Burn
0
0-4*
0
0-4
0
0
0-2
0
0
0
0
0

Turbo Depths
0-2
0-4
0
0
0
1
0-2
0
0
1
0
0

Maverick
0-4
0
0
0
0
0
0-1
0
1
0-1
0
0

Elves
0-4
0-4
0
0-4
0
0
0
0
0-1
0
0
0

UB Reanimator
0-1
0
0
0-2
0
0
0-2*
0
0
0
0
0

BUG
2
0-3*
0
0
0
0-2
0
0
0-1*
0
0
0

Dredge
0
0-4
0
0-2
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
0

Bant
0
0
0
0-3
0-1
0-1
0
0
1
0
0
0

The big takeaways (to me):

Surgical Extraction is the most popular hate card, as it appears in almost every deck. Most decks play it as a 2 of, some as a 4-of.
Containment Priest is played as a 2-of in almost every white deck on the list.
Grafdigger's Cage is almost always played as a 1-of, and often alongside 2-3 copies of Surgical Extraction. One Sneak Attack deck played it as a 4 of.
Leyline of the Void is almost never played in blue decks, except in 2 instances where a Sneak Attack deck and a BUG deck played it as a 4-of and 3-of, respectively. When it does show up, it's a 4-of (outside of the BUG deck).
Rest in Peace is played in every white list, usually as a 2-of. Many Miracles decks play it even if they have Snapcaster main.
Tormod's Crypt is played surprisingly often, showing up in random things like storm and Burn. I lumped the card in with Nihil Spellbomb and Relic, since they all function similarly and target a player (or target nothing).
Faerie Macabre tends to show up in non Force decks. It's usually played alongside other hate cards as a 2-of, but some lists played 4 copies.
Death and Taxes is almost always playing 1 Remorseful Cleric maindeck.
Scavenging Ooze is played MD as a 1-of in every Green Sun's Zenith deck. 1 RUG and 1 BUG deck played the card as a 1-of.
Bojuka Bog is always MD as a 1-of in a deck playing Crop Rotation, and sometimes in lists playing Knight of the Reliquary that splash black. Lands relies more on Sphere effects over GY hate.
Random other refers to a random BR deck that was playing Coffin Purge.
Nobody is playing Extirpate.

To break things down a bit more, I tried to order things as best I could from the "Most played cards" list, and counted how often it popped up. I also added what sort of anti-hate deals with the card.

Most played cards July
% of decks
# copies
Gravestone stops
Bounce/Destroy
Activated ability
Flusterstormable
Instant speed from hand

Surgical
84%
2
Y
n
n
y
y

Leyline
25%
4
n
y
n
n
n

Faerie Macabre
35%
2
y
n
y
n
y

Containment Priest
31%
2
n
y
n
n
y

Grafdigger's Cage
44%
1
n
y
n
n
n

Rest in Peace
23%
2
n
y
n
n
n

Spellbomb/Crypt/Relic
10%
2
n
y
y
n
n

Scavaging Ooze
6%
1
y
y
y
n
n

Bojuka Bog
13%
1
n
n
n
n*
n*

Remorseful Cleric
11%
1
n
y
y
n
n*

Other

1
y
n
n
n*
y

The * denote special scenarios, such as Aether Vial for Cleric and Crop Rotation for Bog.

I have Flusterstormable as a column since most of our lists that run countermagic run Flusterstorm over any other counterspell.

Leyline is always a 4-of, so while it shows up in less decks, there's usually more copies of it because it's a 4-of.

In summation, this is my baseline expectations for each archetype:

Miracles: 4 cards, usually 2 Surgical, 2 Priest or 2 RiP 2 Priest
Grixis/BUG/RUG: 3-4 cards, usually 2-3 Surgical, 1 Cage
Show and Tell: 3 cards, usually Surgical, sometimes 2 Surgical 1 Cage, sometimes 3 Cage
Death and Taxes: 5 cards, 1 Remorseful Cleric Maindeck, 2 Containment Priest side, then either 2 Faerie, 2 Surgical, or 2 RiP
Reanimator decks: 3 cards, usually Surgical or Faerie.
Storm decks: 2 cards, Surgical
Chalice decks: 4 cards, Leyline. Sometimes 2 Surgical+2 Faerie, or 4 Faerie.
Lands: 1 card, Bog Maindeck, but they run 4 Crop Rotation
Turbo Depths: 4 cards, a Bog main with 4 Crop Rotation, and usually 1 Cage and either 2 Surgical or 2 Faerie in the side.
Maverick: 5 cards, 1 Scooze Maindeck+3-4 GSZ, usually 2 Surgical, sometimes 4 Surgical. Expect 1 Bog if they run Knight of the Reliquary and are in black. Sometimes you see Tormod's Crypt.
Burn: usually 2 cards but sometimes 4. Usually Faerie Macabre if only 2, but if they play Leyline, then they are only running 4.

Silent Gravestone still gets a lot of mileage, as Surgical is still the most played gy hate spell, and usually it's the primary spell for most of these decks. Faerie gets played quite a bit as well.

The wrinkle is that most of the decks that play Surgical also play either 1 copy of Cage or Crypt or 2 Containment Priest, which Gravestone doesn't stop. Bounce does take care of these spells, although be wary with Priest as it has flash. Obviously, it's hard to board in too many cards when people are bringing in 1 card that doesn't get hit by Gravestone, and have no other good uses for a bounce spell.

To me, I think you can still get away with 3 Gravestone+2 Bounce spell as a baseline, and diversify from there. It might also be worth playing something like Mentor+Bob or Empty the Warrens until people stop trying to hate out reanimator decks again.

Lastly, always pay attention to decks in your meta. Some people hate gy decks and will jam 4 Leyline in anything, or will bring in 9 hate cards. YMMV, but this should provide an adequate baseline.

.dk

07-20-2018, 06:44 PM

Acclimation bringing the heat today! What a great post and summary!

One thing to note - these are the TOP decks from tcdecks. So, putting that in GP terms - you're looking at a Day 2 type breakdown.

Acclimation

07-20-2018, 06:58 PM

Acclimation bringing the heat today! What a great post and summary!

One thing to note - these are the TOP decks from tcdecks. So, putting that in GP terms - you're looking at a Day 2 type breakdown.

I hinted at that near the end, but yes, this is a very important caveat: this is top decks, so your day 2/mtgo undefeated decks.

I know for my meta, I almost never see Delver decks, but will see more chalice and combo decks. I'll go to another store and play against a lot of Death and Taxes and Lands.

Always be mindful of your personal meta.

JackaBo

07-20-2018, 07:24 PM

Great work!

Darkgobs

07-23-2018, 05:28 AM

Acclimation

07-23-2018, 11:31 AM

Wow, really nice work, thank you!
I Just think you forgot to say that Turbo Depths is also playing 1 Bog main (+ 4 Crop), alongside with the hate you mentionned.
But again, really great & interesting job! =)

Looks like I did miss it. Fixed that section to mention Bog+Crop.

Thanks!

Some more thoughts on this Monday morning.

The above analysis didn't consider things like extra discard, Leyline of Sanctity, extra counterspells, or taxing hate like Thorn/Sphere/3ball/Chalice. For the most part, it shouldn't be too difficult to fight through the extra hate with discard and PiF and any bounce spells you might board in, but it's still something to consider.

If Death & Taxes and Miracles end up being the top 2 decks for the foreseeable future, decks that require big dudes going across the redzone to win (Reanimator, Depths, ISZ, Sneak Attack) are going to have a much harder time when the most played removal spell is Swords to Plowshares. Luckily for us, this deck doesn't need Griselbrand to connect, just to draw 7-14 cards to get going, and since Magus sacrifices itself as part of the cost, it shouldn't get hit by removal.

I'm wondering if RiP+Helm decks will see a resurgence. One placed 2nd at the Legacy Classic over the weekend, and 4 maindeck RiP backed up by countermagic is rough. Time will tell.

Steel Stompy didn't show up in my analysis, but it should pack a hate package similar to Eldrazi and Moon stompy- 4 Leyline or Faerie+Cage/Surgical.

Acclimation

07-26-2018, 04:13 PM

Someone on the discord recently asked about sideboard plans, and I decided to get my notes and decisions down on paper.

A few disclaimers first:

This was written for a white splash list based on mine (linked below). It's simple enough to port to a BW or Green build, as you replace white spells with the similar niche spells from either list, or replace bounce as necessary.
I didn't include any exact numbers on what to take out, because I usually remove the same cards in every match-up (-1 Griselbrand -1 LED; -1 Unburial Rites when Gravestone comes in, -1-4 Ponder if speed is an issue, -1-2 Collective Brutality if none of the modes are relevant (Moon stompy), a Thoughtseize if the life loss is relevant (burn), a Therapy if I need to shave another slot, Cabal Ritual if fast mana isn't useful, a Corpse Dance). Apologies if you have to think, but sticking to an exact plan is bad value considering that people like to tweak their decks with personal twists.
I try to keep my sb plans to less than 6 cards, as cutting slots weakens the deck. Most decks are playing hate that's answered by bounce, discard, or Gravestone, so there's no need to overboard.
There are other niche cards in my lists that I like to run (Disenchant, Swords to Plowshares), so if you have similar cards, feel free to substitute those in bounce slots as needs be. Similarly, Flusterstorm and Silence perform a similar function, and Carpet of Flowers overlaps with Silence in non Storm match-ups.
This is all in flux, and can change based on sb tweaks and as the meta progresses. I could also be wrong in a few cases. But this is what has been working for me so far, and is my general thoughts against the following archetypes.

Archetype
In
Notes

RUG Delver
+3 Silent Gravestone +2 Chain of Vapor (or other bounce spells)
Might consider taking out an extra 1-2 discard spells for Silence, since Silence is solid against RUG

D&T
+2 Massacre +1 Chain/Truth
Hurkyl's Recall is also good here, but Chain/Truth deal with the random RiP that show up. Also worth considering Swords

Miracles (no RiP)
+3 Silent Gravestone +2 Bounce
Expect Surgical+Containment Priest. Could also be worth boarding in Silence over Gravestone, but Gravestone shuts off their Snapcasters

Miracles (RiP)
+2 Bounce +2 Serenity +1 Silence
They still might have Surgical, but Gravestone is less needed when they have RiP, so plan around trying to blow it up at all costs

Show & Tell
+2 Bounce +2 Silence
Expect lots of countermagic and Surgical and Cage. Need to leverage discard and Silence to slow them down, and be wary of Cage.

Storm
+2 Silence +2 Gravestone
Expect mostly Surgical Extraction. Gravestone isn't necessary, but considering that these matches turn into Discard slugfests, it's worth throwing down so you can Entomb openly. Silence can be game winning if used in response to Tutors to disrupt their combo

UW Stoneblade
+3 Gravestone +2 Bounce
They run Containment Priest and then Surgical or RiP. If they don't run Surgical, it's worth dropping the Gravestones for Serenity

Lands
+2-3 Bounce
They run Sphere of Resistance and 1 Bojuka Bog as hate. You can consider running Serenity if they have more Sphere effects, but you don't want to dilute too much

Turbo Depths
+2 Gravestone +1-2 Bounce
Usually run 1 Cage, 2 Surgical, and a MD Bog. Bounce deals with Marit Lage, but you can opt not to run it.

BR Reanimator
+3 Gravestone +2 Bounce
In my experience, they're going to be faster, so it's worth bringing in a bounce spell or Swords to deal with their first guy, especially if it's Chancellor or Iona. You can out grind them since we have cantrips

UB Reanimator
+3 Gravestone
It might be worth bringing in Silence, since they do run FoW+Fluster. Not worth bringing in removal since it's harder to fight through their countermagic for Chain

Maverick
+2 Massacre +1-2 Bounce
A lot of these lists run Surgical and Scooze, but I'm not a fan of Gravestone since they have QP (which does get boarded out occasionally). Bounce is necessary to deal with Teeg. Don't want to board too much, since we should be faster

Grixis
+3 Gravestone +1-2 Bounce
Pretty much all of these decks run 2-3 Surgical and 1 Cage. They will somehow always t1 Cage you despite it being a 1-of

BUG
+3 Gravestone +1-2 Bounce
BUG is pretty much the same as Grixis, 2-3 Surgical and 1 Cage, but bounce has a bit more utlity because of Leovold

Eldrazi
+2 Serenity +1-2 bounce
In addition to Chalice+Prison pieces, they run 4 Leyline

Steel Stompy
+2 Serenity +1-2 bounce
In addition to Chalice+Prison pieces, they run 4 Leyline

Moon Stompy
+2 Serenity +1-2 bounce
In addition to Chalice+Prison pieces, they run 4 Leyline

Burn
+2 Bounce
SB hate is a bit scattered here. Bounce is usually good, since they run Eidolon and sometimes Cage and Ensaring Bridge. You might see Faerie Macabre and Surgical. Bad burn players play Leyline

Aluren
+2 Bounce
Expect varied hate. I would assume 2 Surgical 1 Cage, potentially Containment Priest if they're in white.

NyxFit
+2 Serenity +1-2 Bounce
I expect them to run things like Cage or Leyline, and Serenity can also function as a rattlesnake if you know you need to fade a turn of them playing Dovescape before going off. Some lists might run Surgical, but you should leverage discard

List for reference:

4 Marsh Flats (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Marsh%20Flats)
4 Polluted Delta (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Polluted%20Delta)
1 Swamp (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Swamp)
1 Island (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Island)
1 Scrubland (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Scrubland)
1 Tundra (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Tundra)
2 Underground Sea (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Underground%20Sea)

4 Brainstorm (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Brainstorm)
4 Ponder (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Ponder)

2 Cabal Ritual (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Cabal%20Ritual)
4 Dark Ritual (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Dark%20Ritual)
3 Lion's Eye Diamond (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Lion's%20Eye%20Diamond)
4 Lotus Petal (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Lotus%20Petal)

4 Thoughtseize (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Thoughtseize)
2 Collective Brutality (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Collective%20Brutality)
1 Cabal Therapy (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Cabal%20Therapy)

3 Griselbrand (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Griselbrand)
1 Magus of the Mind (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Magus%20of%20the%20Mind)

1 Past in Flames (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Past%20in%20Flames)
4 Shallow Grave (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Shallow%20Grave)
4 Entomb (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Entomb)
2 Corpse Dance (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Corpse%20Dance)
1 Mastermind's Acquisition (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Mastermind's%20Acquisition)

2 Flex Slots (SpellSeeker (http://deckbox.org/mtg/SpellSeeker) and Unburial Rites (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Unburial%20Rites))

Sideboard:
1 Chain of Vapor (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Chain%20of%20Vapor)
2 Massacre (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Massacre)
2 Silence (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Silence)
1 Hurkyl's Recall (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Hurkyl's%20Recall)
2 Serenity (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Serenity)
3 Silent Gravestone (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Silent%20Gravestone)
1 Tendrils of Agony (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Tendrils%20of%20Agony)
1 Disenchant (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Disenchant)
1 Swords to Plowshares (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Swords%20to%20Plowshares)

.dk

08-03-2018, 05:12 PM

Based on the complete lack of discussion around these 2 detailed posts, I'm just going to assume that Acclimation has solved the deck. Thread CLOSED.

But seriously... I need to get some time to make some much needed primer updates, and link to some of these posts.

JackaBo

08-04-2018, 11:14 AM

Acclimation

08-04-2018, 02:52 PM

Acclimation has solved the deck. Thread CLOSED.

I started the deck and I ended it. Alpha and the Omega.

Side note, I played a Death Wish build last night for giggles:

14 Lands
3 Death Wish
2 Griselbrand
1 Spellseeker
1 Children of Korlis
1 Magus of the Mind
5 Reanimation Spells
8 Cantrips
6 Discard (2 Cobru 3 Seize 1 Therapy)
8 Mana rocks
6 Rituals
4 Entomb
1 PiF

sb:
1 Tendrils
3 Gravestone
1 Massacre
1 Serenity
3 Silence
1 Swords to Plowshares
1 Chain of Vapor
1 Hurkyl's
1 Disenchant
1 Corpse Dance
1 Emrakul
1 Cabal Therapy

Went 2-2, lost to ISZ & Elves, beat 4 Horseman (Sidisi version) and Doomsday. Got to Death Wish for Emrakul twice versus 4 Horseman and cast it.

Death Wish is cool, and I likely need a better sideboard for it, but I did wish for Serenity, Swords, Hurkyl's, Corpse Dance, and Emrakul throughout the night.

Burning Wish is probably definitely better, but this was fun to play, and people's eyes pop when you cast Death Wish.

.dk

08-05-2018, 12:59 PM

I dont think you should draw any conclusion at all from the lack if posts. For me i was drawn to the deck during the DRS era as a way to exploit the metagame of DRS and surgical. I was using this deck as my third lr fourth choice after the more serious Grixus Delverus, Miracle and the less serious RectorFit. Now with the banning the primary draw went away IMO and the second draw, brewing, can he found in all the decks affected by the bannings. I'm currently brewing on regulator storm. I'm following the thread however seeing as i have the cards and are curious about the development. I dont have any brewing or results to contribute with though. I guess other posters have their personal reasons for not posting.

lol I was more joking than anything else. :)

Also, minor primer update coming with a link to a really sweet article that a Discord member (ManaT) wrote regarding hypergeometric probabilities of comboing out with Magus of the Mind in a version of this deck. Check it out here:

https://medium.com/@a_manatee/4c14a5131b83

Jin Gitaxias

08-26-2018, 08:22 AM

Hey Acclimation, in your esper list in the post with the sideboard guide you only list 14 cards. What is your 15th sideboard card?
Thanks in advance!

Acclimation

08-26-2018, 01:30 PM

Hey Acclimation, in your esper list in the post with the sideboard guide you only list 14 cards. What is your 15th sideboard card?
Thanks in advance!

Good catch!

I, uh, don't remember, because I changed up my sb configuration for my local meta last event, and don't remember exactly what it was that I changed in my sb...

I would assume it's either:

3rd Silence
3rd Bounce spell (either another Chain of Vapor or an Echoing Truth)
2nd Swords to Plowshares

It could also be a random fun card or some other niche card for your meta. I don't think my SB guide mentions anything that the 14 card sb list doesn't have, so it's fairly open ended.

As of right now, my list has the following changes:

-1 Unburial Rites (flex slot)
+1 Reanimate

SB:
1 Tendrils
3 Silent Gravestone
3 Silence
3 Swords to Plowshares
2 Serenity
1 Disenchant
1 Chain of Vapor
1 Hurkyl's Recall

I was wanting to try out Reanimate, since my meta has a bit more reanimator decks than normal, so having the ability to snipe someone else's Griselbrand seemed like a good utility, on top of being tutorable off of Spellseeker, at the expense of being able to Entomb for Rites. For the SB, I've been wanting more Swords to deal with the afformentioned decks, as they're a bit faster than me, and having more removal helps soften the blow of not having Massacre vs D&T and Maverick, which are both absent in my meta, but are likely to show up.

WarpWorld

08-26-2018, 07:44 PM

Good catch!

I, uh, don't remember, because I changed up my sb configuration for my local meta last event, and don't remember exactly what it was that I changed in my sb...

I would assume it's either:

3rd Silence
3rd Bounce spell (either another Chain of Vapor or an Echoing Truth)
2nd Swords to Plowshares

It could also be a random fun card or some other niche card for your meta. I don't think my SB guide mentions anything that the 14 card sb list doesn't have, so it's fairly open ended.

As of right now, my list has the following changes:

-1 Unburial Rites (flex slot)
+1 Reanimate

SB:
1 Tendrils
3 Silent Gravestone
3 Silence
3 Swords to Plowshares
2 Serenity
1 Disenchant
1 Chain of Vapor
1 Hurkyl's Recall

I was wanting to try out Reanimate, since my meta has a bit more reanimator decks than normal, so having the ability to snipe someone else's Griselbrand seemed like a good utility, on top of being tutorable off of Spellseeker, at the expense of being able to Entomb for Rites. For the SB, I've been wanting more Swords to deal with the afformentioned decks, as they're a bit faster than me, and having more removal helps soften the blow of not having Massacre vs D&T and Maverick, which are both absent in my meta, but are likely to show up.What's your 60 look like? I am curious with the white splash I have been with playing a stockish green splash since before the ban. Been messing around with different cards since the ban trying to figure out what I like.

Acclimation

08-26-2018, 10:38 PM

What's your 60 look like? I am curious with the white splash I have been with playing a stockish green splash since before the ban. Been messing around with different cards since the ban trying to figure out what I like.

It's this guy from the last page. I like this 58, and tinker with flex slots. I feel like these are all solid flex options: 15th land, 8th discard, Spellseeker, 1-2 Preordain, Unburial Rites, 4th LED, 4th Griselbrand, 3rd Cabal Ritual, Intuition, Reanimate, 3rd Corpse Dance. If you decide that you want 9 discard spells, Unmask is great as a 2 or 3 of. For a 15th land, 3rd Underground Sea would be my first pick.

4 Marsh Flats
4 Polluted Delta
1 Swamp
1 Island
1 Scrubland
1 Tundra
2 Underground Sea

4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder

2 Cabal Ritual
4 Dark Ritual
3 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Lotus Petal

4 Thoughtseize
2 Collective Brutality
1 Cabal Therapy

3 Griselbrand
1 Magus of the Mind

1 Past in Flames
4 Shallow Grave
4 Entomb
2 Corpse Dance
1 Mastermind's Acquisition

2 Flex Slots (Currently SpellSeeker and Reanimate)

WarpWorld

08-27-2018, 10:31 AM

It's this guy from the last page. I like this 58, and tinker with flex slots. I feel like these are all solid flex options: 15th land, 8th discard, Spellseeker, 1-2 Preordain, Unburial Rites, 4th LED, 4th Griselbrand, 3rd Cabal Ritual, Intuition, Reanimate, 3rd Corpse Dance. If you decide that you want 9 discard spells, Unmask is great as a 2 or 3 of. For a 15th land, 3rd Underground Sea would be my first pick.

4 Marsh Flats
4 Polluted Delta
1 Swamp
1 Island
1 Scrubland
1 Tundra
2 Underground Sea

4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder

2 Cabal Ritual
4 Dark Ritual
3 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Lotus Petal

4 Thoughtseize
2 Collective Brutality
1 Cabal Therapy

3 Griselbrand
1 Magus of the Mind

1 Past in Flames
4 Shallow Grave
4 Entomb
2 Corpse Dance
1 Mastermind's Acquisition

2 Flex Slots (Currently SpellSeeker and Reanimate)

Sweet I will have to give white try. I do like the idea of spellseeker having played with it in other decks. Doesn't seem like something I want to reanimate but getting the shallow grave seems fine. I have been playing with 1 chrome Mox as the 15th Mana source +2 discard spells and 2 Preordain in place of the probes and 1 brainstorm since the ban.

Acclimation

08-27-2018, 11:39 AM

Sweet I will have to give white try. I do like the idea of spellseeker having played with it in other decks. Doesn't seem like something I want to reanimate but getting the shallow grave seems fine. I have been playing with 1 chrome Mox as the 15th Mana source +2 discard spells and 2 Preordain in place of the probes and 1 brainstorm since the ban.

I've been liking Spellseeker quite a bit over the last month. Sample Spellseeker plays:

3 Lands in play, Entomb in hand: Dark Ritual, Spellseeker, tutor Reanimate, Entomb for Griselbrand, Reanimate Griselbrand
Tutor Cabal Therapy, strip my opponent's hand of Surgical and Flusterstorm and go off the next turn
Reanimate for value (sometimes you have more reanimation than Entomb)
With PiF and a stocked GY: flashback reanimation, tutor Ritual, sac to Therapy, flashback reanimation, tutor another ritual, MA for Tendrils (this one had a lot of mana needed)

Intuition does storm-centric lines a bit better, as well as act as a 5th Entomb , but Spellseeker is a very serviceable option, since you don't have to worry about your opponent choosing what card you get. I've also adjusted my sb to contain more tutorable cards. The only downside is that it's a bit slow at 3 cmc. The only time I'm worried about opposing removal messing with our Shallow Graves with this card is if I'm about to lose next turn or if the game has gone on so long that I no longer have PiF nor any other reanimation effects left in the deck/hand.

Overall, the white splash has been working well for me. I think that BW builds are probably the better lists at the moment, but Serenity, Silence, Swords, and Disenchant have been solid cards for me.

.dk

08-27-2018, 03:16 PM

Intuition does storm-centric lines a bit better, as well as act as a 5th Entomb , but Spellseeker is a very serviceable option, since you don't have to worry about your opponent choosing what card you get. I've also adjusted my sb to contain more tutorable cards. The only downside is that it's a bit slow at 3 cmc. The only time I'm worried about opposing removal messing with our Shallow Graves with this card is if I'm about to lose next turn or if the game has gone on so long that I no longer have PiF nor any other reanimation effects left in the deck/hand.

Overall, the white splash has been working well for me. I think that BW builds are probably the better lists at the moment, but Serenity, Silence, Swords, and Disenchant have been solid cards for me.

I tried Spellseeker in a Burning Wish list for a bit as well - overall the card felt only OK in that build. My list basically has 1 flex slot at the moment, that could be Spellseeker, Intuition, 2nd Corpse Dance, 4th LED.

Spellseeker was interesting though - it has some really cool/wacky corner case lines to it with Therapy, Shallow Grave, and Reanimate, as you mention above. It's got a lot of play to it, which I definitely do like. I've been testing Intuition over the past week, as it serves a somewhat similar function. Overall I've liked that better, mostly due to being instant speed as well as costing 1 less mana to become an entomb effect. It's also has a lot of play to it.

That said - I think it's very likely that Spellseeker is better if you're not running Burning Wish, as you have more sideboard space to run tutor targets for it - like Silence, Swords to Plowshares, Disenchant, etc. One thing I've been wanting sometimes with Burning Wish is the ability to tutor for a ritual - Spellseeker can do that.

Acclimation

08-27-2018, 03:31 PM

One thing I've been wanting sometimes with Burning Wish is the ability to tutor for a ritual - Spellseeker can do that.

Okay, stay with me now.... Inner Fire

Or Mana Seism

Or even Summer Bloom, which is really interesting in those games where we draw a bunch of lands!

.dk

08-27-2018, 03:59 PM

Okay, stay with me now.... Inner Fire

LED makes Inner Fire sad.

Or Mana Seism
I think Bubbling Muck is better in this deck. Similar, and you can recoup from the lands you tapped to cast anything, but making B mana is really important.

Or even Summer Bloom, which is really interesting in those games where we draw a bunch of lands!
Seems like this is only good post-combo?

8bit9mm

08-29-2018, 11:49 AM

I think Bubbling Muck is better in this deck. Similar, and you can recoup from the lands you tapped to cast anything, but making B mana is really important.?

Rain of Filth might be worth consideration then.

.dk

08-29-2018, 11:52 AM

Rain of Filth might be worth consideration then.

You can't wish for that though

Jin Gitaxias

08-30-2018, 02:36 AM

Are there any videos available with the esper version? I have a legacy tournament in a couple of weeks but the only testing I can do by myself is some goldfishing so I would really appreciate to see some actual games played out

Acclimation

08-31-2018, 03:21 PM

I don't have any videos, since I'm a paper only player. Maybe I'll borrow a go-pro and strap it to my forehead one of these days.

As a side note, the discord (link in the Primer) has a lot of discussion on other builds of the deck (as well as other Tinfins variants), so for anyone reading this and wanting to learn more about Burning Wish or green builds, please join us in the Sealab!

ManaT

09-05-2018, 09:51 PM

I recorded a video of myself playing through a league and posted it to youtube. Hope that you enjoy it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=psV9TjWszIM&feature=youtu.be

WarpWorld

09-06-2018, 11:04 AM

I recorded a video of myself playing through a league and posted it to youtube. Hope that you enjoy it.

Thanks for this. I did enjoy your video. I am on almost your 75 right now. You had some tough breaks. The biggest thing for me is when to mullagn. I find the games I lose are the ones where I only find half of the deck. Have you missed corpse dance? I was playing 2 Preordain but cut back to 1 recently, how have they been for you? As a wish target reanimate vs exhume. Is there room for both?

.dk

09-06-2018, 05:55 PM

So, for those interested, this is the 75 I took to Richmond:

1 Badlands
1 Bayou
3 Bloodstained Mire
1 Island
1 Misty Rainforest
4 Polluted Delta
1 Swamp
2 Underground Sea
1 Volcanic Island
4 Brainstorm
3 Burning Wish
2 Cabal Ritual
1 Collective Brutality
1 Corpse Dance
4 Dark Ritual
1 Duress
4 Entomb
3 Griselbrand
1 Intuition
3 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Lotus Petal
1 Magus of the Mind
1 Past in Flames
4 Ponder
4 Shallow Grave
4 Thoughtseize
Sideboard:

2 Abrupt Decay
2 Carpet of Flowers
1 Collective Brutality
1 Consign // Oblivion
1 Echoing Truth
1 Empty the Warrens
1 Exhume
1 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Massacre
1 Reverent Silence
2 Silent Gravestone
1 Tendrils of Agony

I went 5-3 with 2 byes… not great. The list felt solid (although I would definitely change it going forward, noted below), but I played pretty poorly. I need to practice playing magic more often. :) I lost my win and in for day 2 in the last round, so at least I was live all day. Quick recap of the event:

Round 3: Lands
I literally killed myself to a known punishing fire in his hand. Whoops. Tilted off and lost that match.

Round 4: Grixis Control
Lost to 3 thought seize + 3 hymns between the 2 games. Absolutely crushed me.

Round 5: Goblins
He boarded in 13 cards. Still wasn’t really a match.

Round 6: UB Reanimator
My discard was enough to get there.

Round 7: Grixis Delver
Won this matchup handily - Burning Wish for Collective Brutality was really good, if I remember correctly game 1. Empty for 14 got there game 2.

Round 8: UB Shadow
Game 3, I forgot I had boarded out 2 Griselbrands, and had Ritual, Entomb, Shallow Grave in hand (and also griselbrand). I go for it, forgetting how I boarded… and ritual, entomb for magus and pass. Wow I suck. He won from there. Turns out he had Surgical in his opener anyway, so it wouldn’t have really mattered.

Overall, I felt the deck was solid. Intuition was great all day - I used it in all 3 modes: super entomb, PIF + Entomb + Shallow Grave with lots of mana, and Ritual, Cabal Ritual, PIF to storm off. I really liked the flexibility that Burning Wish allowed me, and Empty the Warrens ended up being very good. Exhume was definitely the correct reanimation to run as opposed to Reanimate - the life loss from reanimate makes it too restrictive late in the game.

The problem with this list is the green splash - the green cards were all very good vs. decks like Miracles, UW Stoneblade, Canadian Threshold, etc. They stacked up very poorly vs. Grixis decks and Shadow. Given the amount of discard (hymns) that I played against, if I were to play the event again, I would cut green and run something like this:

2 Badlands
3 Bloodstained Mire
1 Island
1 Misty Rainforest
4 Polluted Delta
1 Swamp
2 Underground Sea
1 Volcanic Island
4 Brainstorm
3 Burning Wish
2 Cabal Ritual
1 Collective Brutality
1 Corpse Dance
4 Dark Ritual
1 Duress
4 Entomb
3 Griselbrand
1 Intuition
3 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Lotus Petal
1 Magus of the Mind
1 Past in Flames
4 Ponder
4 Shallow Grave
4 Thoughtseize
Sideboard:

1 Abrade
1 Collective Brutality
1 Consign // Oblivion
2 Echoing Truth
1 Empty the Warrens
1 Exhume
2 Flusterstorm
1 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Massacre
1 Pulverize
2 Silent Gravestone
1 Tendrils of Agony

Pulverize is probably the best answer to Chalice decks (same thing TES is doing) - and then use boarded in bounce spells to deal with Leyline or RIP, rather than the reverse with the green splash. Flusterstorm comes in vs. Hymn decks and is also better in combo mirrors as well.

I’ll get the primer updated soon as well with some more recent deck lists as well as Acclimations sideboard rundown above.

ManaT

09-07-2018, 03:01 PM

Thanks for this. I did enjoy your video. I am on almost your 75 right now. You had some tough breaks. The biggest thing for me is when to mullagn. I find the games I lose are the ones where I only find half of the deck. Have you missed corpse dance? I was playing 2 Preordain but cut back to 1 recently, how have they been for you? As a wish target reanimate vs exhume. Is there room for both?

Yeah, synergistic decks are really hard to mulligan with. I'd actually argue that's the number one skill needed to master them. I haven't missed the corpse dance. An exhume on Griselbrand is almost as good in terms of going off. In fact, exhume can be better in some match ups, such as Delver or Burn.

I think you can make room for both Reanimate and Exhume in your board, if you want to. I know others have. I've rarely found the one extra mana to matter, but the life loss might. It's a lot harder to combo when you can only draw 7.

As for the preordains, I think that's about as good as it gets for the deck, though there are other options. I really wanted to find a way to increase the effective number of Entomb in the deck (same issue with drawing the wrong half of the deck). So I looked at Buried Alive as a wish target, playing Careful Study or Faithless Looting, etc. In the end, I chose Preordain over Faithless Looting because of turn one mana considerations and worrying about grindier games where card advantage is a thing. But I'm willing to be wrong here.

Kobra_D

09-15-2018, 04:21 PM

I know most of the convo has moved to discord but I figured I would post my humbling 1-2 result from the previous evenings legacy locals for myself. The list I took was more or less ctrl-c ctrl-v from manaT's most recent list that I could find.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=psV9TjWszIM

I swapped the duress's for cabal therapies and put a single stronghold's gambit into the sideboard

Rnd 1 (ANT):
G1: I keep a hand that is 2 lands, thoughtseize, brainstorm, shallow grave, burning wish, cabal therapy.
This game was pretty academic. We spend the first turns casting discard spells diminishing the hand quality of each other. However, my 1 extra discard spell puts me ahead, plus the 2 reanimation spells in my opener (grave and wish/exhume) let me get a T3 griselbrand to leade to a magus activation for 18.
I boarded in 2 fluster storms and gambit to replace 2 preordains and a cabal ritual.
G2: My hand is 3 lands, gambit, entomb, flusterstorm, dark ritual. It is halfway to a combo on multiple axes with minor disruption so I figure it's a keep. They duress my flusterstorm, followed by me drawing thoughtseize and taking a cantrip. Their slow start then allows me to draw into a griselbrand and gambit into play, a couple of activations, sac to cabal therapy, shallow grave it back, attack are enough. I messed up the combo turn and could not win here, but I was able to cast a bunch of discard spells and leave them with exactly 0 cards in hand after my attack.
(1-0)

Rnd 2 (UR Delver):
I cannot find my notes and don't remember these games from memory too well, but in 3 games I got delvered. G3 otp resulted from an all in t2 with flusterstorm back up and was met with fluster, and force+blue card after they mulled to 5.
"Some days I'm in my yeezy's, some days I'm in my vans"- Robert Frost.
(1-1)

Rnd 3 (SnS):
G1: Discard took the omniscience and sneak attack, and left them show and tell. T3 show from my opp. got both of us a Griselbrand into play. My griselbrand activations found a lot of lands and cantrips, with 0 discard and could not fight through the forces found my my opponent.
G2: I preemptively play LED and lotus petal out during my turn to lower storm count for fluster storm from the opp. I go to shallow grave griselbrand t2, where they flusterstorm, as I go to pay for it with LED they surgical griselbrand.
(1-2)

--------
This deck seems a lot of fun, and does some insane stuff during the combo turn, but it feels neither more resilient than blue fins nor faster than red fins from my exhaustive and comprehensive testing of 3 matches.

Acclimation

10-08-2018, 12:41 PM

Took this Burning Wish build to the 40-Duals for Charity event in STL this past Saturday, and posted a 5-3 record for 33rd place out of ~140.

1
Spellseeker (https://www.mtggoldfish.com/price/Battlebond/Spellseeker#online)

1
Magus of the Mind (https://www.mtggoldfish.com/price/Treasure+Chest/Magus+of+the+Mind#online)

2
Griselbrand (https://www.mtggoldfish.com/price/Avacyn+Restored/Griselbrand#online)

Spells (35)

4
Brainstorm (https://www.mtggoldfish.com/price/Vintage+Masters/Brainstorm#online)

1
Cabal Therapy (https://www.mtggoldfish.com/price/Eternal+Masters/Cabal+Therapy#online)

4
Dark Ritual (https://www.mtggoldfish.com/price/Vintage+Masters:Foil/Dark+Ritual#online)

2
Duress (https://www.mtggoldfish.com/price/Ixalan/Duress#online)

4
Entomb (https://www.mtggoldfish.com/price/Premium+Deck+Series+Graveborn:Foil/Entomb#online)

4
Ponder (https://www.mtggoldfish.com/price/Lorwyn/Ponder#online)

1
Preordain (https://www.mtggoldfish.com/price/Magic+2011/Preordain#online)

4
Thoughtseize (https://www.mtggoldfish.com/price/Lorwyn/Thoughtseize#online)

3
Burning Wish (https://www.mtggoldfish.com/price/Vintage+Masters:Foil/Burning+Wish#online)

2
Cabal Ritual (https://www.mtggoldfish.com/price/Vintage+Masters:Foil/Cabal+Ritual#online)

4
Shallow Grave (https://www.mtggoldfish.com/price/Mirage/Shallow+Grave#online)

1
Corpse Dance (https://www.mtggoldfish.com/price/Tempest/Corpse+Dance#online)

1
Past in Flames (https://www.mtggoldfish.com/price/Innistrad/Past+in+Flames#online)

Artifacts (7)

3
Lion's Eye Diamond (https://www.mtggoldfish.com/price/Promotional/Lions+Eye+Diamond#online)

4
Lotus Petal (https://www.mtggoldfish.com/price/Kaladesh+Inventions/Lotus+Petal#online)

Lands (14)

1
Badlands (https://www.mtggoldfish.com/price/Vintage+Masters/Badlands#online)

3
Bloodstained Mire (https://www.mtggoldfish.com/price/Khans+of+Tarkir/Bloodstained+Mire#online)

1
Island (https://www.mtggoldfish.com/price/Amonkhet/Island-251#online)

4
Polluted Delta (https://www.mtggoldfish.com/price/Khans+of+Tarkir/Polluted+Delta#online)

1
Scalding Tarn (https://www.mtggoldfish.com/price/Zendikar/Scalding+Tarn#online)

1
Swamp (https://www.mtggoldfish.com/price/Amonkhet/Swamp-252#online)

2
Underground Sea (https://www.mtggoldfish.com/price/Vintage+Masters/Underground+Sea#online)

1
Volcanic Island (https://www.mtggoldfish.com/price/Vintage+Masters/Volcanic+Island#online)

Sideboard (15)

1
Chain of Vapor (https://www.mtggoldfish.com/price/Onslaught/Chain+of+Vapor#online)

2
Flusterstorm (https://www.mtggoldfish.com/price/Vintage+Masters/Flusterstorm#online)

1
Meltdown (https://www.mtggoldfish.com/price/Urzas+Saga/Meltdown#online)

2
Abrade (https://www.mtggoldfish.com/price/Hour+of+Devastation/Abrade#online)

1
Collective Brutality (https://www.mtggoldfish.com/price/Eldritch+Moon/Collective+Brutality#online)

1
Echoing Truth (https://www.mtggoldfish.com/price/Darksteel/Echoing+Truth#online)

1
Exhume (https://www.mtggoldfish.com/price/Premium+Deck+Series+Graveborn:Foil/Exhume#online)

1
Grapeshot (https://www.mtggoldfish.com/price/Modern+Masters/Grapeshot#online)

1
Hurkyl's Recall (https://www.mtggoldfish.com/price/Modern+Masters+2015/Hurkyls+Recall#online)

1
Empty the Warrens (https://www.mtggoldfish.com/price/Time+Spiral/Empty+the+Warrens#online)

1
Massacre (https://www.mtggoldfish.com/price/Nemesis/Massacre#online)

1
Tendrils of Agony (https://www.mtggoldfish.com/price/Vintage+Masters:Foil/Tendrils+of+Agony#online)

1
Consign // Oblivion (https://www.mtggoldfish.com/price/Hour+of+Devastation/Consign+Oblivion#online)

Round 1: UB Eldrazi 2-0

Naturally, I got paired up against a local friend at my LGS game 1, and he brought his UB brew. It's a Chalice deck with Force of Will, Thought-Knot Seer, equipment, Leyline of the Void in the sideboard, and some other cards that make it a bit of a nightmare to navigate. I win the dice roll and get the god hand with a t1 protected kill with Thoughtseize (he had t1 Chalice but no Force). Game 2 goes a bit slower with him landing t0 Leyline, but I end up getting a line with Spellseeker to get in with Tendrils for 18.

Round 2: Grixis Control 0-2

Game 1 I have a hand with Shallow Grave, Thoughtseize, 2 cantrips, and some lands, and never draw into Entomb or another cantrip. I rip a Hymn from his hand t1 with Seize, but draw a Griselbrand the next turn. He ends up making a quick Gurmag Angler, then goes Thoughtseize, snap Thoughtseize to strip my hand of business after I go land->go for 4 turns.
Game 2 I have a t2 kill with Flusterstorm protection, and he ends up having Surgical+Flusterstorm and gets my Griselbrands. I end up going for a hailmary Magus for 3, flip land, Dark Ritual, Past in Flames. cast spells, go magus for 7 and flip 4 lands, Entomb, and 2 Discard spells (he's hellbent at this point). I bin a ritual and hope to draw LED or another Ritual to flashback PiF to win, and end up drawing mono discard for the next 2 turns before he beats me down with Gurmag.

Round 3: Doomsday 2-0

Once again, I get paired with another LGS friend. Next to us is another set of LGS people playing against each other. To our other side, 2 guys that are roommates are playing against each other. We all have a good laugh. Game 1 I have a hand that can kill on t3, and we end up Duressing each other. He takes my Grave, I take his Infernal Contract. I end up ripping Grave and killing him. Game 2 I keep a slow hand and he ends up casting Doomsday with 0 mana floating while I have Flusterstorm in hand, as well as 2 rituals. I decide to not Fluster his Doomsday, and he makes a pile of Shelldock, Emrakul, Labman, Doomsday, and some other card. He Seizes me, takes one Ritual goes to 7, plays Shelldock. I draw Brainstorm and draw Corpse Dance, Burning Wish, and something else. I put back Corpse Dance and the other card, Ritual, BW, Tendrils for 8. It was probably correct to Flusterstorm the Doomsday, but I figure I was drawing poorly and a topdecked BW would put me in range for Tendrils post Doomsday, and I lucked into it.

Round 4: Death & Taxes 0-2

This round I made many punts and it was an embarrassing round. Game 1 he goes Mom into Revoker into Revoker. I'm staring at a Burning Wish and Grave with rituals, and I'm considering Wishing for Massacre (Revoker naming Petal+LED). I wait a little bit too long, and he gets double port and ports down both of my red sources and I never draw Entomb.
Game 2 I get a solid t3 hand, and he goes t2 RiP. I count my mana wrong and attempt to BW into Consign into Entomb+Grave and realize I was 1 mana short after I burned both of my Rituals. He ends up going Thalia into more dudes and I lose in 2 turns. ARGH.

Round 5: Soldier Stompy 2-1

I turn 1 kill him. He didn't hesitate like he had counter magic, so I put him on some sort of stompy deck. Definitely the kind of start I need after the last round. I boarded in 2 bounce spells. Game 2 He gets Thalia into Big Thalia with Chalice backup. Game 2 I miscount mana and tap wrong and make 18 Goblins instead of Tendrils for 20 on t2. I had 1 U available that I used to cast a spell off PiF instead of flashing back my Ponder, and ended up having 1 black remaining after I wished for Empty. He doesn't draw his one answer though, so I got lucky.

Round 6: Turbo Depths 2-1

This is a guy that's new to Legacy, and I'm a jerk that plays foreign cards, so when I went t4 Shallow Grave for Magus of the Mind, I called the judge over loudly and everyone stopped once they heard "What's the oracle text for Magus of the Mind?" to watch what was going on. Game 2 he ends up making Marit Lage before I can draw reanimation. Game 3 We go back and forth on discard, but I eventually get there before he can play the last mana source he needed to activate Stage for Depths.

Round 7: Eldrazi Post 1-2

Played against another local, but he usually plays at a different store so we don't play often. I win game 1 on turn 1, EZ. Game 2 he starts with Leyline into Spyglass naming Griselbrand. I bounce the Leyline, and entomb Griselbrand. I probably should have went for a Magus, since it would have been Magus for 7, but my brain thought that bashing in for 7 while he's at 12 would be fine. He eventually runs into double Thought-Knot Seer and I never draw into Burning Wish for Tendrils while he's at 3 life. Big punts. Game 3 I have a decent hand. He mulls to 4, but hits leyline. I cast brainstorm, and draw into the missing combo pieces, and I'm looking at a hand that would kill next turn if it weren't for leyline. I never draw Burning Wish or another Cantrip while he goes runner runner into lands into Thought-Knot x2 into new Kozilek. Super disappointing, since now I'm dead for prizes.

Round 8: Opponent no showed, so I got a free win. Ended up playing games with a friend of a fellow discorder and we have a good time laughing and jamming games.

Overall, I thought that the list was very good. I made some mistakes that cost me 1 round, and definitely a few individual games. I would happily run it back with no changes. I feel like the Spellseeker, Corpse Dance, and Preordain are your flex slots in the main deck if you wanted to make changes. To me, I felt like 14 lands with 9 cantrips, 5 reanimation, 7 discard, and spellseeker as a wild card tutor felt like a solid base, but I know people like playing 15 lands, 8 cantrips, 4 reanimation, 6-8 discard, and have Intuition or more cantrips over Spellseeker.

Edit SB notes: I pretty much always cut some amount of Preordain, Ponder, Cabal Therapy, and Duress to make room for things that I boarded in. Abrade, Echoing Truth, Recall, Chain, and Flusterstorm came in often. I never boarded in more than 4 cards, the list is extremely tight, and I had enough redundancy with wishboard and Spellseeker to make things work.

thecrav

12-12-2018, 12:47 PM

[Decklist]

Streamed six matches with Kai on this decklist on Monday. As always, had a ton of fun. Rewatched yesterday and found one miss that we didn't even notice when playing.

Video here: http://youtu.be/N-QcdBvjthM

Time stamps:
3:59 Match 1 Game 1
5:40 First misclick of the evening
11:26 Match 1 Game 2
12:24 Kai finally has audio
21:34 Match 2 Game 1
29:06 Match 2 Game 2
48:42 Match 3 Game 1
57:52 Match 3 Game 2
1:06:08 Break for beverages
1:09:03 Match 4 Game 1
1:11:44 Match 4 Game 2
1:22:43 Match 4 Game 3
1:29:36 Match 5 Game 1
1:40:18 Match 5 Game 2
1:58:01 Match 6 Game 1
2:14:33 Match 6 Game 2
2:29:15 Match 6 Game 3
2:30:55 Second misclick of the evening
2:37:06 Biggest punt of the night (described below)

===== Spoiler(s) below ====

2:37:06 - I actually mentioned that Surgical was protecting itself but didn't consider that Surgical was protecting another Surgical. In the next turn, I went Ritual -> Ritual -> Shallow Grave with Burning Wish and Red mana available. I should've Burning Wished for Exhume so that I could respond to a Surgical with a Shallow Grave - never forget that Shallow Grave is an instant!

Ragdoll

03-02-2019, 04:49 AM

Greetings!

How's the deck right now? I'm thinking in trying this one. Could anyone tell me which color is worth splashing the most now? Anyone still on the deck?

Thx :)

.dk

03-02-2019, 12:26 PM

Most of the discussion of this deck has moved to the Tin Fins/Bizarro/ISZ discord here:

https://discord.gg/gTRCEqQ

There are a few versions that people have been playing. Namely Burning Wish variants and Dark Petition variants, with some other experimentation going on here and there.

boneclockharmony

05-05-2020, 01:12 AM

Hey ya'll, the discord link doesn't seem to work for me - could anyone perhaps send me an alternative one?
I can join in the browser, but it refuses to add the server to my discord app (not at server capacity as I can add other servers just fine).

Would really appreciate it!

EDIT: I figured out what was wrong - had accidentally gotten logged out of discord in my browser and was on a guest account.