Commander 2018 Info and Spoilers

[Ace/Homebrew]

We get info on this tomorrow at 2 PM Pacific time. Probably just the themes of the decks for now, but all C18 info and spoilers can be posted here.

Don't get your hopes up for Legacy playables. :wink:

[Bithlord]

Don't get your hopes up for Legacy playables. :wink:

I choose to interpret this as confirmation that OG duals are being reprinted.

Fight me.

[FourDogsinaHorseSuit]

I choose to interpret this as confirmation that OG duals are being reprinted.

Fight me.

Wizard's announcing the end of reserved list, pass it on.

[Barook]

I choose to interpret this as confirmation that OG duals are being reprinted.

Fight me.
They could print Commander-related duals that work like normal duals in Legacy whenever they want. They just don't.

[Bithlord]

They could print Commander-related duals that work like normal duals in Legacy whenever they want. They just don't.

We know. Instead they reprint multi-player duals without landtypes in supplemental sets.

[morgan_coke]

Honestly, if they just gave the "checklands" basic land types and included the word "other" on them, they'd be a perfectly fine budget dual replacement that would work the same for the vast majority of Legacy players.

[JDK]

What to expect for Legacy:

Nic Fit Card
Probably 1 DnT Hatebear
Nic Fit Card
1 probably playable Ux card
More Nic Fit cards

[Hanni]

What to expect for Legacy:

Nic Fit Card
Probably 1 DnT Hatebear
Nic Fit Card
1 probably playable Ux card
More Nic Fit cards

You forgot to include cards that fit into various Stax or Stompy decks.

[morgan_coke]

There will also be one card that's fine in Commander but broken in half in competitive.

[ESG]

You forgot to include cards that fit into various Stax or Stompy decks.

Nic Fit is the new Stax. :tongue:

[JDK]

You forgot to include cards that fit into various Stax or Stompy decks.

I guess there is more for Nic Fit and DnT than for Stax or Stompy. You wanna take bets? :P

[Ace/Homebrew]

Looks like the themes are:

:u::r: Artifacts
:b::g::r: Lands
:u::g::w: Enchantments
:w::u::b: Top of Library Matters

[FourDogsinaHorseSuit]

Honestly, if they just gave the "checklands" basic land types and included the word "other" on them, they'd be a perfectly fine budget dual replacement that would work the same for the vast majority of Legacy players.

Except the ones who want to act on turn one.

[Humphrey]

https://i.redd.it/9z0e5jtfcc911.png

[Barook]

Spoilers are rolling in:


Infinite Atlas:2:
Artifact
:2:, Tap: Draw a card. Activate this ability only if you control at least three lands with the same name.

New Commander walkers (https://imgur.com/a/igpQN2K)


Aminatou, the Fateshifter - WUB

Loyalty: 3

+1: Draw a card, then put a card from your hand on top of your library.

-1: Exile another target permanent you own, then return it to the battlefield under your control.

-6: Choose left or right. Each player gains control of all nonland permanents other than Aminatou, the Fateshifter controlled by the next player in the chosen direction.

Aminatou, the Fateshifter can be your commander.


Lord Windgrace - 2BRG

Loyalty: 5

+2: Discard a card, then draw a card. If a land card is discarded this way, draw an additional card.

-3: Return up to 2 target land cards from your graveyard to the battlefield

-11: Destroy up to six target nonland permanents, then create six 2/2 green Cat Warrior creature tokens with forestwalk.

Lord Windgrace can be your commander.


Estrid, the Masked - 1GWU

Loyalty: 3

+2: Untap each enchanted permanent you control.

-1: Create a white Aura enchantment token named Mask attached to another target permanent. The token has enchant permanent and totem armor.

-7: Put the top seven cards of your library into your graveyard. Return all non-Aura enchantment cards from your graveyard to the battlefield, then do this also for Aura cards.

Estrid, the Masked can be your commander.


Saheeli, the Gifted - 2UR

Loyalty: 4

+1: Create a 1/1 colorless Servo artifact creature token.

+1: The next spell you cast this turn costs 1 less to cast for each artifact you control as you cast it.

-7: For each artifact you control, creature a token that's a copy of it. Those tokens gain haste. Exile those tokens at the beginning of the next end step.

http://mythicspoiler.com/c18/cards/saheelisdirective.jpghttp://mythicspoiler.com/c18/cards/covetedjewel.jpg

[Matsu]

Spoilers are rolling in:

...


The PW are not impressive.Their pictures are sorta odd.

Windrace the BRG, might fit into some fringe 4c Loam Decks to bring back BB Ring, Cabal pit and DA.

[Megadeus]

Saheeli might be decent? She can come down and +1 and immediately drop an artifact like say an ensnaring Bridge? I dunno if she's actually good enough though. In Grixis Tez I'd rather have Tez and probably Dack first.

[ReAnimator]

https://external.xx.fbcdn.net/safe_image.php?d=AQDn_wYP78OX4HwY&w=960&h=960&url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Ffs5ge3v3rpb11.jpg&_nc_hash=AQBoN0qGwX2yq3My

This thing will be insane in Commander, but also could see Vintage play.

[rufus]

Saheeli might be decent? She can come down and +1 and immediately drop an artifact like say an ensnaring Bridge? I dunno if she's actually good enough though. In Grixis Tez I'd rather have Tez and probably Dack first.

That seems pretty win more: You have to have her and a bunch of artifacts in play, when you could just cast the bridge instead.

[bruizar]

Treasure Nabber is gonna get people's asses kicked when they pick up power 9 roughly. Saheeli's Directive seems like a very high potential, narrow card, Varchild will spike Defense of the Heart.

[Barook]

http://mythicspoiler.com/c18/cards/tawnosurzasapprentice.jpg

Any useful applications for this?

[rufus]

...Varchild will spike Defense of the Heart.

Varchild's War-Riders seems just plain better for that.

[rufus]

http://mythicspoiler.com/c18/cards/tawnosurzasapprentice.jpg

Any useful applications for this?

Birthing Pod?

Something silly with Illusionist's Bracers? (No this doesn't do anything fun.)

Mostly, Rings of Brighthearth or Strionic Resonator would also work in its place.

[FourDogsinaHorseSuit]

I think I like Varchild over Rabblemaster that's seeing play. They fill similar roles, but the Varchild Tokens can't fight back.

[Cire]

Varchild can do fun stuff with Artificial Evolution, either fogging an attack or branding stuff when he leaves play.

[filln]

I think I like Varchild over Rabblemaster that's seeing play. They fill similar roles, but the Varchild Tokens can't fight back.

Rabblemaster's key advantage is that you can use its tokens to attack under your own Ensnaring Bridge. Can't really say the same with Varchild.

[morgan_coke]

http://mythicspoiler.com/c18/cards/tawnosurzasapprentice.jpg

Any useful applications for this?

Ark of Blight?

[Matsu]

http://mythicspoiler.com/c18/cards/tawnosurzasapprentice.jpg

Any useful applications for this?

How is this working with Door to nothingness

[Tylert]

Esper commander: +1 mini brainstorm, this is busted in MIRACLES!!
Esper miracles coming for the end of legacy!

ok i'm out.

[Brael]

Esper commander: +1 mini brainstorm, this is busted in MIRACLES!!
Esper miracles coming for the end of legacy!

ok i'm out.

Or you can just Jace and actual Brainstorm.

[Scott]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Di4xQkXVAAEMTVu?format=png

[Barook]

Replayable Polymorph for all card types seems interesting. I wonder if there's a way to break it properly.

http://mythicspoiler.com/c18/cards/whiptonguehydra.jpg
Expensive, yes, but the ability to nuke all flyers could have applications. Maybe. The price tag is still step if it isn't cheated into play.

[joshman54321]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Di4xQkXVAAEMTVu?format=png

I like this alot in a NicFit shell with Tireless trackers and scrambling clues into Blightsteel or Inkwell Leviathon as the only artifacts.

[Cire]

If you're going the artifact route why not just Shape Anew?

[joshman54321]

If you're going the artifact route why not just Shape Anew?

It wouldn't be a whole artifact route which I feel shape anew is more geared towards, was mostly thinking for Blightsteel as a payoff only at first and added Inkwell as a hard to kill second option. Was already dabbling around with trackers and a large threat vs drawing a random card is better. Plus could turn dead explorers into threats late game as well with any of the other creatures.

[Barook]

Varchild's War-Riders seems just plain better for that.
Looks like somebody bought most them out on MKM.

Aside from the obvious combos with War-Riders and Defense of the Heart, there's also the cute interaction with Unnatural Selection. Pay :1: to your opponent's creature off (or steal them in case Varchild leaves the battlefield).

Edit: Rampaging Ferocidon seems like another nice combo with it. No lifegain + essentially doubling the damage sounds like a bitch to deal with, especially when it brings another decent body to boot.

Bonus round for being a complete, politically incorrect asshat:
Ferocidon + Varchild's War-Riders + Ensnaring Bridge = you literally kill your opponent by drowning them in survivor tokens while you hide behind your Bridge. I call it "Refugee Stompy". :really: :tongue:

[morgan_coke]

Looks like somebody bought most them out on MKM.

Aside from the obvious combos with War-Riders and Defense of the Heart, there's also the cute interaction with Unnatural Selection. Pay :1: to your opponent's creature off (or steal them in case Varchild leaves the battlefield).

Edit: Rampaging Ferocidon seems like another nice combo with it. No lifegain + essentially doubling the damage sounds like a bitch to deal with, especially when it brings another decent body to boot.

Bonus round for being a complete, politically incorrect asshat:
Ferocidon + Varchild's War-Riders + Ensnaring Bridge = you literally kill your opponent by drowning them in survivor tokens while you hide behind your Bridge. I call it "Refugee Stompy". :really: :tongue:

Add an Elspeth and call it "German Refugee Stompy" for maximum accuracy.

[rufus]

If you're going the artifact route why not just Shape Anew?

FWIW, it's "... permanent you own ..." which has some cute possibilities with control exchange stuff like Puca's Mischief or Gilded Drake.

Another fun feature is that it puts the card on bottom first so it could work as a flicker effect.

[JDK]

You probably don't want to Reality Scramble into another Gilded Drake, though.

[ReAnimator]

At the very least this is incredibly cool. A land you can cast!
https://i.imgur.com/eW1AzWi.jpg

[Mr. Safety]

At the very least this is incredibly cool. A land you can cast!
https://i.imgur.com/eW1AzWi.jpg

Pretty hot with Torpor Orb, maybe Stifle. Costing 4 is pretty big, but I did notice it's got the same stats as Phyrexian Dreadnought, minus the trample. This is outside of abrupt decay range, and honestly just massive.

[bruizar]

Add an Elspeth and call it "German Refugee Stompy" for maximum accuracy.

If you want it to be accurate, you'd have to remove the Ensnaring Bridge.

[Lava Snacks]

Dark Depths, Thing in the Ice, Arixmethes, Slumbering Isle, I call it the sleeping giant cycle.

[Mr. Safety]

Replayable Polymorph for all card types seems interesting. I wonder if there's a way to break it properly.

http://mythicspoiler.com/c18/cards/whiptonguehydra.jpg
Expensive, yes, but the ability to nuke all flyers could have applications. Maybe. The price tag is still step if it isn't cheated into play.

If you're going with GSZ I can't imagine this is better than Cloudthresher. Yes thresher only deals 2 damage, but that's usually good enough, and Thresher as a 7/7 blocks Griselbrand just fine (if you ever get to that point, lol.) I'm not sold on this one.

[rufus]

Pretty hot with Torpor Orb, maybe Stifle. Costing 4 is pretty big, but I did notice it's got the same stats as Phyrexian Dreadnought, minus the trample. This is outside of abrupt decay range, and honestly just massive.

Get your Quest for Ula's Temple before the spike. :laugh:

It can tap the turn it comes into play, so it only costs net 2.

A quick rules question: Is it legendary while it's land?

[Ace/Homebrew]

It can tap the turn it comes into play, so it only costs net 2.
Yeah, but it enters play tapped...

You cast it and it is a creature on the stack. Then it enters play and it is a land...
So how does Blood Moon interact with this?

[Captain Hammer]

Dark Depths, Thing in the Ice, Arixmethes, Slumbering Isle, I call it the sleeping giant cycle.

Yep. Pair those three with Vampire Hexmage and Thespian Stage and Living Wish and we have ourselves a crappy theme deck.

[MechTactical]

Touché it's not a land creature type, it would run well with Krosan Wayfarer... Though, i like the design there (even the art ain't bad)

[Dice_Box]

Pretty hot with Torpor Orb, maybe Stifle.
No. Neither card help you dodge the tokens.

[Barook]

Considering the Bant deck is heavily enchantment-themed - how does this exactly fit the theme? Aside from spamming cheap auras? :really:

Edit: Any good ways to put those creature tokens to good use?

https://media.wizards.com/2018/c18/en_CX0YuFEiZs.png

[Ace/Homebrew]

Black miracle card was leaked!

Entreat the Dead XX:b::b::b:
Sorcery

Miracle X:b::b:
Return X target creature cards from your graveyard to the battlefield.

[Poron]

I like this alot in a NicFit shell with Tireless trackers and scrambling clues into Blightsteel or Inkwell Leviathon as the only artifacts.

Even better: a token in a control shell (Lingering Soul), Bitterblossom or whatever and you have an uncounterable way to summon Griselbrand or Emrakul.
Uncounterable because it can just be postponed not avoided (Invasive Surgery apart).

Overall Intuition and Gamble work fantastically this way

Life from the Loam
Reality Scramble
Lingering Souls

Whatever he will choose you are in good spot anyway
Unluckily this is a 5 color list, the result is a super solid way to summon Emrakul

Ah yes nothing make sense in a world with Show and Tell

[Cire]

Black miracle card was leaked!

Entreat the Dead XX:b::b::b:
Sorcery
Miracle X:b::b:
Return X target creature cards from your graveyard to the battlefield.

Lol, anyway to get two combo creatures in the grave, get this on top of your library and have 4 mana open? :rolleyes:

Edit:

Bad combo alert, just trying to figure out if this works. . .

Goblin Welder in Play
Magewright's Stone in Play
Coveted jewel in Graveyard
1 mana open


Tap welder, sacing Magewright, targeting Coveted Jewel
In response, tap Magewright, untapping welder
Jewel ETB, draw 3, tap Add 3 mana
Tap welder, sacing Coveted Jewel, targeting Magewright
Tap Magewright, untapping Welder
Tap welder, sacing Magewright, targeting Coveted Jewel
Jewel ETB, draw 3, tap Add 3 mana
Using the open mana (5), and the 6 cards drawn, hopefully you drew into another Magewright (or that can act as such for 5 or less mana: Thousand-Year Elixir & Puppet Strings), cast Magewright and repeat the whole process to draw your deck as it is divisible by 3 and provide mana equal to amount of cards drawn this way (minus one for each time you do the loop).
Cast game winners

[Mr. Safety]

No. Neither card help you dodge the tokens.

DAMMIT! Sundial of the Infinite?

EDIT: I assume you meant counters...

[rufus]

Lol, anyway to get two combo creatures in the grave, get this on top of your library and have 4 mana open? :rolleyes:

Edit:

Bad combo alert, just trying to figure out if this works. . .
...

Seems like it should. Although it seems like you might be better off with Transmute Artifact than the Magewright's stone.

Since this is a bad combo, you could also try to repeatedly flicker a Daretti, Scrap Savant using Reality Scramble.

[morgan_coke]

At the very least this is incredibly cool. A land you can cast!
https://i.imgur.com/eW1AzWi.jpg

That's not a Kraken. It's a Homarid.

[Cire]

Seems like it should. Although it seems like you might be better off with Transmute Artifact than the Magewright's stone.
.

Transmute what into what?

[rufus]

Transmute what into what?

Gems to gems, of course. Though you do also need something to feed the welder.

[rufus]

That's not a Kraken. It's a Homarid.

Gee thanks, now that's going to bug me whenever I look at the art.

[Cire]

Gems to gems, of course. Though you do also need something to feed the welder.

I think you need two untap artifacts (2nd one within two draws off the gems) in order to loop. Additionally, just looking at Transmute Artifact's oracle text, I don't think the gem will ever enter play unless you pay the extra mana, meaning you can't transmute a petal into a gem, get 3 mana and 3 cards . . .

[Hanni]

Arixmethes is a really cool design, but too overcosted for Legacy. Drop the cost down to UG, make it tap for U or G (instead of U and G), and this would have been very Legacy playable. Oh well.

[rufus]

I think you need two untap artifacts (2nd one within two draws off the gems) in order to loop. Additionally, just looking at Transmute Artifact's oracle text, I don't think the gem will ever enter play unless you pay the extra mana, meaning you can't transmute a petal into a gem, get 3 mana and 3 cards . . .

Right, you'd have to weld (or otherwise cheat) a gem into play, and then you can transmute it into another one.

[Brainstorm Ape]

Is a vanilla 12/12, even at 2CMC, good enough for Legacy build-arounds anymore? No evasion, dies to everything, doesn't impact the board immediately...seems mostly worse than Thing in the Ice, Marit Lage, or good ol' Dreadnaught, to say nothing of all the other dumb fucking creatures people Skill & Ape or Retardimate out.

[Hanni]

Is a vanilla 12/12, even at 2CMC, good enough for Legacy build-arounds anymore? No evasion, dies to everything, doesn't impact the board immediately...seems mostly worse than Thing in the Ice, Marit Lage, or good ol' Dreadnaught, to say nothing of all the other dumb fucking creatures people Skill & Ape or Retardimate out.

Coming into play as essentially a mana rock before it turns into a 12/12 seems solid. The fact that it is green let's it be grabbed by GSZ, which seems good. The fact that any 5 spells will flip it as opposed to non-creature spells, or especially the fact that it's not limited to instants and sorceries, is pretty sweet. At 2cc, I definitely think it would have seen Legacy play.

[Aggro_zombies]

Eh, spending two mana on a non-fetchable but still Wasteland-able land doesn't seem that great in this format, even if it turns into a 12/12 at some point. Plus, at two mana it would also be open to Abrupt Decay in addition to all the other removal spells that currently kill it, and that just isn't where you want to be. At least Marit Lage dodges everything but Sword / Path, and that deck is still super fringe.

[Hanni]

Eh, spending two mana on a non-fetchable but still Wasteland-able land doesn't seem that great in this format, even if it turns into a 12/12 at some point. Plus, at two mana it would also be open to Abrupt Decay in addition to all the other removal spells that currently kill it, and that just isn't where you want to be. At least Marit Lage dodges everything but Sword / Path, and that deck is still super fringe.

Turbo Depths and RG Lands are great decks. I wouldn't call them fringe at all. However, Marit Lage is a two card combo. This card just requires you to play normal magic. The weakness to Wasteland does make it less than Stellar in a bunch of matchups, but I still think it would have seen some Legacy play at 2cc. Regardless, it's not 2cc, so the thing is junk for Legacy.

[sco0ter]

Is this playable?

Retrofitter Foundry 1

Artifact

3: Untap Retrofitter Foundry.
2, T: Create a 1/1 colorless Servo artifact creature token.
1, T, Sacrifice a Servo: Create a 1/1 colorless Thopter artifact creature token with flying.
T, Sacrifice a Thopter: Create a 4/4 colorless Construct artifact creature token.

Looks great with infinite mana or Sai, Master Thopterist.

Maybe also a new toy for Bomberman?

[Cire]

Genesis Storm 4GG
Sorcery
When you've cast this spell, copy it for each time you've cast your commander from the command zone this game.
Reveal cards from the top of your library until you reveal a nonland permanent card. You may put that card onto the battlefield. Then put all cards revealed this way that weren't put onto the battlefield on the bottom of your library in a random order.

Ignore the first part of the card . . . if you make a deck with ONLY lands and spells . . . and a couple emrakul, this is a 6 mana emrakul (or other winner). Potential?

[Poron]

Polymorph was doing the same thing for 3U, pitches to FoW and doesn’t need a useless color like green to work.

Blue already has Polymorph 5-8 that is Proteus Staff and is much closer to the “token” color by definition (white)

Overall Polymorph still allows you to run artifacts, enchantments and Planeswalkers. That green storm only spells..

Not good enough for anything

[Cire]

Polymorph sort of required you to run spells to generate creatures (or workshop) so it always sort of cost MORE than 3U in total to "combo" off, and was at least a 2 card combo. This is just a flat 5G and is only one card.

Edit - also I guess you can try to make omniscience as your only permanent - and craft a deck that can win as you play genesis storm?

[Mr. Safety]

Is this playable?

Retrofitter Foundry 1

Artifact

3: Untap Retrofitter Foundry.
2, T: Create a 1/1 colorless Servo artifact creature token.
1, T, Sacrifice a Servo: Create a 1/1 colorless Thopter artifact creature token with flying.
T, Sacrifice a Thopter: Create a 4/4 colorless Construct artifact creature token.

Looks great with infinite mana or Sai, Master Thopterist.

Maybe also a new toy for Bomberman?

Card is sexy, I want to jam it with my Voltaic Keys, Ratchet Bombs, and Icy Manipulators. I don't see it doing anything in legacy, but damn, what a fun card.

[Bithlord]

After the second set of Commander Pre-Cons all the new cards have been extremely "safe". That's by design, because they are absolute shit at balancing cards, and inevitably ended up with one or more legacy staples in one deck and none in the others, so there were huge price disparities.

I'd love to see what the reprints in each of the decks are, but that's about it as far as anything that could be used in Legacy barring a total accident on their part.

[Skyl3lazer]

That's by design, because they are absolute shit at balancing cards,

I mean, it's by design because they explicitly said they wanted to have the legacy targeted cards in sets like CNS that are print-to-order, rather than print-as-a-set limited run things like commander precons.

[Dice_Box]

After the second set of Commander Pre-Cons all the new cards have been extremely "safe". That's by design, because they are absolute shit at balancing cards, and inevitably ended up with one or more legacy staples in one deck and none in the others, so there were huge price disparities.
If that means we don't repeat the TNN issue of the past, no compliants here.

[Cire]

https://i.imgur.com/KYgXviv.png

Cheap Ninjitsu (even cooler in commander since there is no commander tax) and pretty awesome trigger ability. You can maybe even BS or worldly tutor a big mana card to the top of your library to deal insane damage.

[Poron]

Polymorph sort of required you to run spells to generate creatures (or workshop) so it always sort of cost MORE than 3U in total to "combo" off, and was at least a 2 card combo. This is just a flat 5G and is only one card.

Edit - also I guess you can try to make omniscience as your only permanent - and craft a deck that can win as you play genesis storm?

That can be another card for a spell only deck. Like Seething Song, Manamorphose, Storm and Emrakul/Omniscience is served.

The point is that you lose LED and Petals and Tinder Wall and so on overall, again, in a world where Show and a Tell is a card

[Whitefaces]

Yuriko is a nice one, could see some play for sure. In a midrange/value deck with Strix, Snapcasters and Anglers etc. I don't think you need to play any other Ninjas to make the card good.

[Megadeus]

That can be another card for a spell only deck. Like Seething Song, Manamorphose, Storm and Emrakul/Omniscience is served.

The point is that you lose LED and Petals and Tinder Wall and so on overall, again, in a world where Show and a Tell is a card

Honestly it seems like the toughest part is creating GG. Outside of manamorphose I can't think of a good way to filter mana.

[Cire]

Honestly it seems like the toughest part is creating GG. Outside of manamorphose I can't think of a good way to filter mana.

Actually, a really bad but potentially the only avenue for this theoretical deck would be to take some of the old balancing tings deck teck and use the invansion sac lands like Geothermal Crevice and Fallen Empires sac lands like Havenwood Battleground. . . eseentially the idea would be Turn 1 - Sac Land, Turn 2 - Sac Land, Turn 3 - SOL land - Genesis. The issue then is to: (1) get Genesis in hand (we need to run at least 3 personal tutors . . . ) and (2) protect your lands . . . and protect yourself? IDK, best case I have is this monstrosity combinging the balancing-tings land base with "pitch world" goofiness that aims for a turn 3 win with some protection and that auto-loses to wasteland.

3 City of Traitors
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Havenwood Battleground
4 Ancient Spring
4 Irrigation Ditch
4 Geothermal Crevice

4 Genesis Storm
4 Manamorphose
4 Force of Will
4 Brainstorm
4 Commandeer
4 Disrupting Shoal
4 Snapback
4 Misdirection
3 Personal Tutor
2 Emrakul

[rufus]

Speaking of bad combos, Aminatou's Augury can chain into itself, right?

[Pittplayer]

I'm pretty mad at how badly they messed up Magus of the Balance. Really WotC? A FIVE mana activation cost? At first I thought it was 2 mana to cast, 2 mana to activate, which I think is a bit powerful but, A. having a total cost of 4 mana to activate, B. having summoning sickness, and C. being a 2/2 creature, balances it. It's five mana activation cost makes it unplayable, and outside the template of all the other maguses like Magus of the Will, Magus of the Disk, etc. They all reflect the original casting cost of the card they are the "magus" of.. I'm disappointed.

[Rascalyote]

I'm pretty mad at how badly they messed up Magus of the Balance. Really WotC? A FIVE mana activation cost? At first I thought it was 2 mana to cast, 2 mana to activate, which I think is a bit powerful but, A. having a total cost of 4 mana to activate, B. having summoning sickness, and C. being a 2/2 creature, balances it. It's five mana activation cost makes it unplayable, and outside the template of all the other maguses like Magus of the Will, Magus of the Disk, etc. They all reflect the original casting cost of the card they are the "magus" of.. I'm disappointed.

Dnt already gets a ton of new cards. Eot vial this in on 2 untap balance. Yah i doubt it sees play at 5 but at 2 its pretty much uncounterable balance.

[Pittplayer]

Dnt already gets a ton of new cards. Eot vial this in on 2 untap balance. Yah i doubt it sees play at 5 but at 2 its pretty much uncounterable balance.

Death and Taxes does not want this card. Why would they want to clear the board? Dnt tries to set up a mob of creatures and ports/plains. Would they want to Balance vs... a Storm deck? Dredge? Reanimator? Delver? Show and Tell? Even if they do wipe the board, they do not have the cantrip suite to set back up like say, Delver does. Traditonaly Balance was used by Control and Combo decks as a means to fight aggro decks. I could see Dredge wanting this, B/W Pox, even Miracles could use this. But a aggro creature deck wanting Balance effects? Nope.

[kombatkiwi]

Death and Taxes does not want this card. Why would they want to clear the board? Dnt tries to set up a mob of creatures and ports/plains. Would they want to Balance vs... a Storm deck? Dredge? Reanimator? Delver? Show and Tell? Even if they do wipe the board, they do not have the cantrip suite to set back up like say, Delver does. Traditonaly Balance was used by Control and Combo decks as a means to fight aggro decks. I could see Dredge wanting this, B/W Pox, even Miracles could use this. But a aggro creature deck wanting Balance effects? Nope.

Go search for tournament results and see which legacy decks play Cataclysm in the SB
Admittedly this is slightly worse in many ways, particularly not being able to keep 1 creature if the opponent has 0, and not being Armageddon if you have a bunch of lands yourself, but it seems reasonable that DNT would at least consider this if it was cmc 2 and 2 mana to pop it

[Dice_Box]

I think the activation cost is a balancing (ha) consideration. If the cost is higher your more likely to have more Lands, thus not destroying the EDH game this is designed to be used it.

Sure, it sucks that we don't get another toy for DnT, but again, this product is not for us.

[Pittplayer]

I think the activation cost is a balancing (ha) consideration. If the cost is higher your more likely to have more Lands, thus not destroying the EDH game this is designed to be used it.

Sure, it sucks that we don't get another toy for DnT, but again, this product is not for us.

In all honesty, I just want to play a Balance effect in my B/W Pox deck. I got excited for Magus of the Balance, then it broke my heart.

[mistercakes]

magus of the balance seems like it could fit in a bomberman shell since it already has LED.

[Matsu]

I really like Sower of Discord targeting an opponent and myself :tongue:

[Fox]

Just to be clear on that ninja, even though it's "commander ninjitsu" it still works in legacy right?

[L10]

It works from both the Command Zone and hand.

I want an Esper build so I can bounce her with Karakas. Or just play Karakas.

[rufus]

Just to be clear on that ninja, even though it's "commander ninjitsu" it still works in legacy right?

Yes.

... Put this card onto the battlefield from your hand or the command zone tapped and attacking ...

[Megadeus]

White Stax with man that is balance is pretty sick too. Will be picking up a set for bad purposes

[The Nobodys]

Yeah, the ninja seems abusable. Cast brainstorm, put FoW /randomcard/Angler on top? Over two attacks that would be 12 life loss + 2 damage. Takes a little setup, but not really anything you wouldn't be doing/casting anyway.

[rufus]

Yeah, the ninja seems abusable. Cast brainstorm, put FoW /randomcard/Angler on top? Over two attacks that would be 12 life loss + 2 damage. Takes a little setup, but not really anything you wouldn't be doing/casting anyway.

I think people are more inclined to look for value, double up on that by recycling the ETB trigger on cards like Baleful Strix and Snapcaster Mage or the cast trigger on Shardless Agent, and leave the life loss as a side benefit.

[Cire]

I think the issue with the Ninja is that it's tempting to get it out there as fast as possible, but really the best way to play it is to wait till turn 3, attack with your turn 2 value creature, ninjistsu, and draw a card, turn 4 you cast your value card again. So the temptation is to use that turn 3 play for more than the bounce back and extra card - which is why I think it goes best in a shell with S&T since then you can either use BS or maybe worldly tutor to pack some real damage turn 3.

[rufus]

I think the issue with the Ninja is that ...

Mostly, I think the issue is that Leovold is better.

[Karhumies]

Gyrus is a "Jund" 3 mana 3/3 creature which generates additional damage and potentially card advantage (e.g. via EtB or leaves battlefield triggers) every time it attacks, and has a "virtual kicker" cost of X giving it X +1/+1 counters permanently. Seems certainly strong enough to be run in German Highlander midrange decks. But I have a hard time figuring out any Legacy deck shell where Gyrus could fit.

[Poron]

Haha Gyrus into Geist of Saint Traft would be a fun chain

[Karhumies]

Haha Gyrus into Geist of Saint Traft would be a fun chain

My initial thought was Gyrus x=0, next turn attack, with trigger on the stack cast Entomb, get Gigantomancer, swing for 14 using 2B mana (Entomb + 2x Gigantomancer activation). But that's still far short from lethal damage. Needs an extra attacker and extra Gigantomancer activation to bring it into 21 damage.

[Barook]

Gyrus is a "Jund" 3 mana 3/3 creature which generates additional damage and potentially card advantage (e.g. via EtB or leaves battlefield triggers) every time it attacks, and has a "virtual kicker" cost of X giving it X +1/+1 counters permanently. Seems certainly strong enough to be run in German Highlander midrange decks. But I have a hard time figuring out any Legacy deck shell where Gyrus could fit.
But it's a 0/0. :eyebrow:

http://mythicspoiler.com/c18/cards/gyruswakerofcorpses1.jpg

[Cire]

But it's a 0/0. :eyebrow:

http://mythicspoiler.com/c18/cards/gyruswakerofcorpses1.jpg

X equal to mana used to cast it - not mana used on X.

[rufus]

My initial thought was Gyrus x=0, next turn attack, with trigger on the stack cast Entomb, get Gigantomancer, swing for 14 using 2B mana (Entomb + 2x Gigantomancer activation). But that's still far short from lethal damage. Needs an extra attacker and extra Gigantomancer activation to bring it into 21 damage.

Master of Cruelties is the usual silly pick for effects like that.

[Pittplayer]

But it's a 0/0. :eyebrow:

http://mythicspoiler.com/c18/cards/gyruswakerofcorpses1.jpg

You have to spend 3 mana on it, so it's always going to be at least a 3/3.

[Pittplayer]

Master of Cruelties is the usual silly pick for effects like that.

Will doing that allow MoC to attack with the Hydra?

[Ace/Homebrew]

Will doing that allow MoC to attack with the Hydra?
Yeah, it's the same as Kaalia of the Vast.

[Karhumies]

Grenzo, Dungeon Warden seems to have grindy creature based synergy with Gyrus. For some MtG formats, you could probably build a card advantage engine around them.

[Cire]

Master of Cruelties is the usual silly pick for effects like that.

1st - Land(Islandish) - Mana Dork
2nd - Land(Mountainish) - Buried Alive (Anger/MOC/(Wonder for Evasion))
3rd - Gyrus FTW?

---

Actually . . . if you can do Buried Alive . . . why not just go for Anger/Karmic Guide(or Body Double)/Grizzy, Gyrus etb, haste, attack, get Karmic Guide(or Body Double), get a 7/7 lifelinker demon with haste. . . i guess you can conitnue a combo or something, but that seems solid as is? (Although yes, way less complicated ways of getting Grizzy out).

[FourDogsinaHorseSuit]

What are the rules about creating tokens with replacement effects? Like can I attack with this, grab Clone and clone something?

[rufus]

What are the rules about creating tokens with replacement effects? Like can I attack with this, grab Clone and clone something?

Yes.



Actually . . . if you can do Buried Alive . . . why not just go for Anger/Karmic Guide(or Body Double)/Grizzy ...


Yeah, that's the reason people talk about the 'value' thing. If you're spending the effort to cheat stuff into play, then there are better ways to go, but if you're running jund with etb stuff like Bedlam Reveler and Abbot of Keral Keep it might work to give reach.

[Cire]

Yeah, that's the reason people talk about the 'value' thing. If you're spending the effort to cheat stuff into play, then there are better ways to go, but if you're running jund with etb stuff like Bedlam Reveler and Abbot of Keral Keep it might work to give reach.

Looking through the most Modern (minus DRS) Legacy Jund creature basis I see:

Dark Confidant
Scavenging Ooze
Grim Flayer
Tarmogoyf
Bloodbraid Elf
Grim Lavamancer
Eidolon of the Great Revel

No real ETB creatures - but I guess you can recur Goyf/Frayer for outsize beats . . . You obviously can't run BBE, since you need to spend mana to cast Gyrus . . . so I guess the question is whether Gyrus > BBE & if you would want to rebuild Jund with more ETB creatures.

[Dice_Box]

I want to use it with Riftsweeper.

[Karhumies]

Actually . . . if you can do Buried Alive . . . why not just go for ...

"Traditionally" in the Oozing strategy, Buried Alive (Necrotic Ooze, Triskelion and Phyrexian Devourer) + Reanimate targetting Necrotic Ooze will win the game on the spot without even going into combat. 2BB and 2 cards sure is a lot of resources, though, and the combo pieces are nearly dead weight without the combo (excluding Necrotic Ooze attacks, no blocks, before damage Entomb for Phyrexian Devourer, activate Ooze N times, deal 60+ combat damage).

[Barook]

"Traditionally" in the Oozing strategy, Buried Alive (Necrotic Ooze, Triskelion and Phyrexian Devourer) + Reanimate targetting Necrotic Ooze will win the game on the spot without even going into combat. 2BB and 2 cards sure is a lot of resources, though, and the combo pieces are nearly dead weight without the combo (excluding Necrotic Ooze attacks, no blocks, before damage Entomb for Phyrexian Devourer, activate Ooze N times, deal 60+ combat damage).
Master of Cruelty seems way more compact for this. You can also run Entomb for Punishing Fire (which can be used to finish off the 1-life opponent) and Loam.

[Barook]

For what it's worth, I've just noticed that Yuriko, the Tiger's Shadow combines nicely with Mirror Entity as it makes everybody a ninja. Throw in some Bitterblossoms, Lingering Souls, Strixes and TNNs and go to town. Not sure if that's a viable midrange plan, but it sounds fun to screw around with, as it draws cards AND drains the opponent. Since you're probably going to have multiple triggers, putting stuff back with Brainstorm becomes extra deadly.