Results and Meta Post-DRS/Probe Banning [Archive]

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Scott

07-16-2018, 08:26 PM

I'll post top 8/16 results after the DRS/Probe ban here, and update the OP with decks' ranking using TCDecks's system (including 6+ round/33+ player tournaments; 1 point given for each round in tournament, and 1 point given for each round won in the top 8). It's mostly for fun to observe what people are playing and winning with rather than showing what one should play, as it's super early, and even later, it will continue to evolve, and in general, meta rank ≠ deck strength. Plus, I'm including all locations and paper + online.

In total, the first 9 weeks+ post-ban:

Grixis Control: 563 points
Miracles: 436
Death's Shadow: 341
Death & Taxes: 328
Grixis Delver: 280
Sneak & Show: 268
Lands: 262
UWx Stoneblade: 259
RUG Delver: 207
ANT: 205
OmniTell: 192
Dark Depths: 165
Eldrazi: 164
U/R Delver: 159
Goblins: 108
B/R Reanimator: 106
Steel Stompy: 95
Big Eldrazi: 92
Elves: 85
12-Post: 82
Aggro Loam: 77
Burn: 76
Infect: 76
Maverick: 71
Dragon Stompy: 69
Merfolk: 68
TES: 65
Dredge: 51
Reanimator: 46
Pox: 35
UWx Helm: 26
Tezzeret Control: 25
Aluren: 24
Bomberman: 24
BUG Control: 24
BUG Delver: 24
UWR Delver: 23
Tin Fins: 21
Zombardment: 21
UWx Landstill: 20
Eldrazi & Taxes: 18
Enchantress: 15
U/W Stoneblade/Delver: 15
Food Chain: 14
Jund: 14
Naya Lumberjack: 13
Mono B Reanimator: 12
Mono Red Sneak Attack: 9
Reanimator Depths: 9
Sapphire Control: 9
U/B Helm Combo: 9
Humans: 8
U/B Ninjas: 8
BUG Loam: 7
B/W Deadguy/D&T: 7
Czech Pile: 7
Faeries: 7
Imperial Painter: 7
Lands/Storm Combo: 7
Punishing Dack: 7
Shardless BUG: 7
Soldier Stompy: 7
U/B Control/Reanimator: 7
URx Landstill: 7
U/W Miracles/Stoneblade: 7
B/R Storm: 6
BUG Lands: 6
High Tide: 6
Mono U Control/Dark Depths: 6
Ooze Reanimator: 6
RUG Cascade: 6
Slivers: 6
Tempo Zoo: 6

The first 3 weeks+ of results post-ban:

Miracles: 198 points
Sneak & Show: 157
UWx Stoneblade: 135
Grixis Control: 134
Death & Taxes: 125
RUG Delver: 101
Eldrazi: 70
ANT: 66
Lands: 66
OmniTell: 64
Goblins: 58
Grixis Delver: 53
Dragon Stompy: 49
Dark Depths: 48
Big Eldrazi: 46
B/R Reanimator: 43
Death's Shadow: 39
Steel Stompy: 38
Aggro Loam: 36
Elves: 36
TES: 36
U/R Delver: 35
12-Post: 32
Infect: 30
Merfolk: 22
Dredge: 20
Maverick: 20
Pox: 20
UWx Helm: 19
Aluren: 16
UWR Delver: 16
Reanimator: 15
Bomberman: 14
Zombardment: 14
Tezzeret Control: 11
BUG Delver: 10
BUG Control: 9
Mono Red Sneak Attack: 9
Reanimator Depths: 9
U/B Helm Combo: 9
Eldrazi & Taxes: 8
Humans: 8
UWx Landstill: 8
B/W Deadguy/D&T: 7
Czech Pile: 7
Food Chain: 7
Imperial Painter: 7
Lands/Storm Combo: 7
Punishing Dack: 7
Shardless BUG: 7
Soldier Stompy: 7
U/W Miracles/Stoneblade: 7
BUG Lands: 6
Burn: 6
High Tide: 6
Jund: 6
RUG Cascade: 6
Tempo Zoo: 6

The second 3 weeks of results post-ban:

Grixis Control: 206 points
Death’s Shadow: 142
Grixis Delver: 126
Death & Taxes: 109
Miracles: 102
Lands: 83
UWx Stoneblade: 69
U/R Delver: 68
Sneak & Show: 59
OmniTell: 58
Dark Depths: 57
Steel Stompy: 51
RUG Delver: 50
Eldrazi: 47
ANT: 46
12-Post: 37
Burn: 34
B/R Reanimator: 33
Reanimator: 25
TES: 22
Aggro Loam: 21
Goblins: 20
Infect: 17
Merfolk: 15
Pox: 15
Tin Fins: 15
Big Eldrazi: 14
BUG Delver: 14
Elves: 14
Dragon Stompy: 13
Bomberman: 10
Eldrazi & Taxes: 10
Maverick: 10
Jund: 8
Czech Pile: 7
Faeries: 7
Food Chain: 7
U/B Control/Reanimator: 7
UWx Helm: 7
Zombardment: 7
Mono B Reanimator: 6
Naya Lumberjack: 6
Slivers: 6
Tezzeret Control: 6
UWx Landstill: 6

The third 3 weeks of results post-ban:

Grixis Control: 223 points
Death's Shadow: 160
Miracles: 136
Lands: 113
Grixis Delver: 101
Death & Taxes: 94
ANT: 93
OmniTell: 70
Dark Depths: 60
RUG Delver: 56
U/R Delver: 56
UWx Stoneblade: 55
Sneak & Show: 52
Eldrazi: 47
Maverick: 41
Burn: 36
Elves: 35
Big Eldrazi: 32
Dredge: 31
Merfolk: 31
B/R Reanimator: 30
Goblins: 30
Infect: 29
Aggro Loam: 20
BUG Control: 15
Enchantress: 15
U/W Stoneblade/Delver: 15
12-Post: 13
Sapphire Control: 9
Aluren: 8
Tezzeret Control: 8
U/B Ninjas: 8
BUG Loam: 7
Dragon Stompy: 7
Naya Lumberjack: 7
TES: 7
URx Landstill: 7
UWR Delver: 7
B/R Storm: 6
Mono B Reanimator: 6
Mono U Control/Dark Depths: 6
Ooze Reanimator: 6
Reanimator: 6
Steel Stompy: 6
Tin Fins: 6
UWx Landstill: 6

July 7, 晴れる屋レガシー杯, 35 players (http://www.hareruyamtg.com/en/k/kD50799S/): 1.) ANT 2.) Eldrazi 3.) Food Chain 4.) U/R Delver 5.) Grixis Delver 6.) Esperblade 7.) Miracles 8.) Infect

July 9, MTGO Challenge, 104 players (http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=27984): 1.) Sneak & Show 2.) Sneak & Show 3.) Death & Taxes 4.) Aggro Loam 5.) Imperial Painter 6.) Death & Taxes 7.) Dredge 8.) Eldrazi 9.) Dragon Stompy 10.) Zombardment 11.) TES 12.) RUG Delver 13.) Dragon Stompy 14.) Miracles 15.) Grixis Delver 16.) RUG Delver

July 14, LCL July 2018, 46 players (http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=28010): 1.) Sneak & Show 2.) Turbo Depths 3.) Death & Taxes 4.) Reanimator 5.) Burn 6.) Goblins 7.) RUG Cascade 8.) B/R Reanimator

July 14, Let's Get Wasted! @ Prodigy Games, Florida, 48 players (http://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=19642&f=LE): 1.) U/B Helm Combo 2.) Infect 3.) Eldrazi 4.) Lands/Storm Combo 5.) Goblins 6.) High Tide 7.) OmniTell w/ Sneak 8.) TES

July 14, MTA Legacy Championship @ Guangzhou, China, 129 players (http://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=19664&f=LE): 1.) Tezzeret Control 2.) RUG Delver 3.) B/R Reanimator 4.) Sneak & Show 5.) UWR Stoneblade 6.) Sneak & Show 7.) Sneak & Show 8.) RUG Delver

July 15, Worcester SCG Classic, 140 players (http://www.starcitygames.com/decks/results/format/3/event_ID/36/start_date/13-07-2018/end_date/15-07-2018/city/Worcester/state/MA/start/1/finish/16/w_perc/0/g_perc/0/r_perc/0/b_perc/0/u_perc/0/a_perc/0/order_1/finish/limit/25/start_num/0/): 1.) Big Eldrazi 2.) U/W Stoneblade 3.) RUG Delver 4.) Goblins 5.) Dark Depths 6.) UWR Stoneblade 7.) B/R Reanimator 8.) Grixis Death's Shadow 9.) UWR Delver 10.) Miracles 11.) Death & Taxes 12.) Sneak & Show 13.) Death & Taxes 14.) Infect 15.) Grixis Death's Shadow 16.) U/W Stoneblade

July 15, MTA Legacy Invitational @ Guangzhou, China, 115 players (http://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=19666&d=326293&f=LE): 1.) BUG Delver 2.) Mono Red Sneak Attack 3.) Steel Stompy 4.) Esperblade 5.) B/W Deadguy/D&T 6.) UWR Stoneblade 7.) Miracles 8.) Turbo Depths

July 15, MTGO Challenge, 105 players (https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/mtgo-standings/legacy-challenge-2018-07-16): 1.) RUG Delver 2.) Merfolk 3.) Esperblade 4.) Death & Taxes 5.) Miracles 6.) Grixis Control 7.) Lands 8.) Eldrazi 9.) Miracles 10.) OmniTell 11.) ANT 12.) Lands 13.) Lands 14.) Miracles 15.) ANT 16.) U/W Miracles/Stoneblade

July 15, 《狼狽の嵐》争奪レガシー杯, 70 players (http://www.hareruyamtg.com/en/k/kD12656W/): 1.) Death & Taxes 2.) Steel Stompy 3.) Esperblade 4.) Grixis Delver 5.) Steel Stompy 6.) ANT 7.) Bomberman 8.) Maverick

July 15, 関帝前哨戦レガシー - 晴れる屋大阪店, 44 players (http://www.hareruyamtg.com/en/k/kD00177F/): 1.) Miracles 2.) UWR Delver 3.) Sneak & Show 4.) Grixis Delver 5.) Death & Taxes 6.) Pox 7.) U/R Delver 8.) U/W Stoneblade

July 15, MLL #11, 37 players (http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=28126): 1.) Reanimator Depths 2.) U/R Delver 3.) RUG Delver 4.) Dragon Stompy 5.) RUG Delver 6.) Death & Taxes 7.) Sneak & Show 8.) Dragon Stompy

July 16, 晴れる屋レガシー杯, 52 players (http://www.hareruyamtg.com/en/k/kD51095S/): 1.) 12-Post 2.) Esperblade 3.) Death & Taxes 4.) OmniTell 5.) Grixis Control 6.) OmniTell 7.) Goblins 8.) Goblins

July 21, Magic Bazar Paris Monthly @ Paris, 33 players (http://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=19727&d=326866&f=LE): 1.) Esperblade 2.) Humans 3.) Grixis Death's Shadow 4.) Dragon Stompy 5.) Grixis Control 6.) OmniTell 7.) RUG Delver 8.) Tempo Zoo

July 21, Preservation Series 1K @ Mox Boarding House Bellevue, 48 players (http://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=19705&f=LE): 1.) Sneak & Show 2.) Grixis Control 3.) Aggro Loam 4.) Maverick 5.) Death & Taxes 6.) Goblins 7.) Sneak & Show 8.) ANT

July 22, MKM Series Prague, 227 players (http://series.magiccardmarket.eu/coverage-mkm-series-prague-2018-legacy/#top8decks): 1.) Elves 2.) Eldrazi 3.) Miracles 4.) Miracles 5.) OmniTell w/ Sneak 6.) Eldrazi 7.) Miracles 8.) BUG Control

July 22, Philadelphia SCG Classic, 170 players (http://www.starcitygames.com/decks/StarCityGamescom_Classic/2018-07-22_legacy_Philadelphia_PA_US/1/): 1.) BUG Depths 2.) U/W Helm 3.) Miracles 4.) Big Eldrazi 5.) Infect 6.) Elves 7.) Grixis Delver 8.) Big Eldrazi 9.) U/G 12-Post 10.) Death & Taxes 11.) Aggro Loam 12.) Grixis Delver 13.) U/W Landstill 14.) TES 15.) Big Eldrazi 16.) Sneak & Show

July 22, MTGO Challenge, 83 players (https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/mtgo-standings/legacy-challenge-2018-07-23): 1.) Big Eldrazi 2.) Death & Taxes 3.) U/W Stoneblade 4.) Sneak & Show 5.) Eldrazi 6.) Death & Taxes 7.) RUG Delver 8.) Death & Taxes 9.) B/R Reanimator 10.) Zombardment 11.) Lands 12.) Punishing Dack 13.) Merfolk 14.) TES 15.) Sneak & Show 16.) U/R Delver

July 22, CLC 2018 - Etapa 6 - Itajaí @ Blackout Games, 38 players (http://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=19682&f=LE): 1.) RUG Delver 2.) Reanimator 3.) Grixis Control 4.) U/R OmniTell 5.) Death & Taxes 6.) Eldrazi 7.) Grixis Control 8.) Dragon Stompy

July 22, Legacy at Grand Prix Chiba, 231 players (http://www.hareruyamtg.com/en/k/kD51742S/): 1.) Grixis Control 2.) Miracles 3.) Lands 4.) Miracles 5.) OmniTell 6.) Grixis Delver 7.) Grixis Control 8.) Miracles

July 28, 第二期関西帝王レガシー - 晴れる屋大阪店, 88 players (http://www.hareruyamtg.com/en/k/kD02829T/): 1.) ANT 2.) Dragon Stompy 3.) Death & Taxes 4.) Miracles 5.) Colorless 12-Post 6.) U/R Delver 7.) Bomberman 8.) Pox

July 28, Staples @ Collector Legion (Gardena, California), 46 players (http://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=19728&f=LE): 1.) Grixis Control 2.) Eldrazi 3.) Dredge 4.) Sneak & Show 5.) Esperblade 6.) Sneak & Show 7.) Sneak & Show 8.) ANT

July 28, Millennium Games Legacy Series @ Rochester NY, 44 players (http://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=19726&f=LE): 1.) Lands 2.) TES 3.) UWr Stoneblade 4.) OmniTell 5.) Grixis Control 6.) UWr Stoneblade 7.) Lands 8.) Punishing Maverick

July 28, The Last Sun 2018予選 - 晴れる屋トーナメントセンター#2, 72 players (http://www.hareruyamtg.com/en/k/kD12816W/): 1.) Grixis Control 2.) Grixis Control 3.) Eldrazi & Taxes 4.) Dark Depths 5.) ANT 6.) BUG Death's Shadow 7.) Miracles 8.) Sneak & Show

July 28, LML Sexta etapa 22/7 @ TCGeek, 35 players (http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=19744&f=LE): 1.) Elves 2.) Miracles 3.) Goblins 4.) ? 5.) Turbo Depths 6.) Dredge 7.) Esperblade 8.) Merfolk

July 28, 37º Alpha Legacy @ Magic Store (Brasil), 40 players (http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=19762&f=LE): 1.) U/W Helm 2.) U/W Stoneblade 3.) Steel Stompy 4.) Shardless BUG 5.) Sneak & Show 6.) B/R Reanimator 7.) BUG Lands 8.) Jund

July 29, MTGO Challenge, 109 players (https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/mtgo-standings/legacy-challenge-2018-07-30): 1.) Grixis Control 2.) Aluren 3.) RUG Delver 4.) Miracles 5.) Miracles 6.) RUG Delver 7.) Grixis Control 8.) Miracles 9.) Soldier Stompy 10.) Sneak & Show 11.) B/R Reanimator 12.) Sneak & Show 13.) Death & Taxes 14.) Grixis Control 15.) Steel Stompy 16.) ANT

July 29, レガシー神トライアル, 83 players (http://www.hareruyamtg.com/en/k/kD12850W/): 1.) Miracles 2.) U/B Death's Shadow 3.) Grixis Control 4.) Colorless 12-Post 5.) Grixis Control 6.) Aluren 7.) Aggro Loam 8.) Pox

July 29, Monthly July @ London, 42 players (http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=19760&f=LE): 1.) Miracles 2.) Miracles 3.) Elves 4.) Lands 5.) Aggro Loam 6.) Goblins 7.) Goblins 8.) Lands

August 4, Legacy Preservation Series @ Mox Boarding House Seattle, 43 players (http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=19779&f=LE): 1.) Tin Fins Depths 2.) UWR Stoneblade 3.) U/G 12-Post 4.) Big Eldrazi 5.) Burn 6.) Lands 7.) Lands 8.) RUG Delver

August 4, ネームドトーナメントトミザワ・レガシー杯, 53 players (http://www.hareruyamtg.com/en/k/kD12917W/): 1.) Dark Depths 2.) TES 3.) Eldrazi 4.) Grixis Control 5.) Grixis Control 6.) Tin Fins 7.) Goblins 8.) Tezzeret Control

August 5, MTGO Challenge, 100 players (https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/mtgo-standings/legacy-challenge-2018-08-06): 1.) RUG Delver 2.) Merfolk 3.) Lands 4.) Reanimator 5.) Grixis Control 6.) Miracles 7.) Grixis Control 8.) Sneak & Show 9.) Miracles 10.) Grixis Delver 11.) B/R Reanimator 12.) Infect 13.) Faeries 14.) TES 15.) Death's Shadow 16.) Big Eldrazi

August 5, 晴れる屋レガシー杯, 46 players (http://www.hareruyamtg.com/en/k/kD9495K/): 1.) Grixis Control 2.) Miracles 3.) Lands 4.) TES 5.) Miracles 6.) B/R Reanimator 7.) Miracles 8.) Miracles

August 5, The Last Sun 2018予選 - ファミコンランド小松店, 33 players (http://www.hareruyamtg.com/en/k/kD52502S/): 1.) Mono G 12-Post 2.) U/W Stoneblade 3.) Pox 4.) Grixis Control

August 5, Pro Series @ Fire & Dice (Winnetka, California), 33 players (http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=19793&f=LE): 1.) Grixis Control 2.) Goblins 3.) Eldrazi 4.) Turbo Depths 5.) Death & Taxes 6.) U/W Landstill 7.) Sneak & Show 8.) BUG Delver

August 5, Eternal Challenge II - DF @ PvP, 47 players (http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=19811&f=LE): 1.) Burn 2.) Pox 3.) Death & Taxes 4.) OmniTell w/ Sneak 5.) Burn 6.) Death's Shadow 7.) Dragon Stompy 8.) Slivers

August 11, 《汚染された三角州》[EXP]争奪レガシー杯, 86 players (http://www.hareruyamtg.com/en/k/kD13014W/): 1.) Sneak & Show 2.) Reanimator 3.) Jund 4.) Grixis Control 5.) Food Chain 6.) Death & Taxes 7.) Colorless 12-Post 8.) ?

August 11, レガシー東海王決定戦, 67 players (http://www.hareruyamtg.com/en/k/kD01254N/): 1.) Death's Shadow 2.) U/W Stoneblade 3.) RUG Delver 4.) Eldrazi 5.) U/R Delver 6.) Grixis Control 7.) Grixis Control 8.) Elves

August 11, LCL August 2018, 46 players (http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=28311): 1.) RUG Delver 2.) BUG Delver 3.) Steel Stompy 4.) Grixis Control 5.) ANT 6.) Sneak & Show 7.) Goblins 8.) Grixis Control

August 12, MTGO Challenge, 104 players (https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/mtgo-standings/legacy-challenge-2018-08-13): 1.) ANT 2.) Grixis Delver 3.) Eldrazi 4.) Turbo Depths 5.) Sneak & Show 6.) Turbo Depths 7.) Grixis Delver 8.) Sneak & Show 9.) Steel Stompy 10.) Grixis Delver 11.) Death & Taxes 12.) Grixis Control 13.) Elves 14.) Steel Stompy 15.) Burn 16.) U/R Delver

August 12, Known Magicians Clan - 98th, 113 players (http://www.hareruyamtg.com/en/k/kD52728S/): 1.) Lands 2.) Grixis Control 3.) Miracles 4.) Sneak & Show 5.) Miracles 6.) U/R Delver 7.) U/W Stoneblade 8.) Esperblade

August 12, [Los Angeles, CA] Knight Ware - August, 69 players (http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=28249): 1.) Grixis Delver 2.) U/W Stoneblade 3.) U/R Delver 4.) Death's Shadow 5.) Esperblade 6.) Grixis Control 7.) Miracles 8.) B/R Reanimator

August 12, Win A Dual 29 @ Tuebingen, Germany, 46 players (https://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=19845&f=LE): 1.) Aggro Loam 2.) Lands 3.) W/R Death & Taxes 4.) Grixis Delver 5.) Aggro Loam 6.) Death & Taxes 7.) Merfolk 8.) Miracles

August 16, 夏休みレガシー杯, 58 players (http://www.hareruyamtg.com/en/k/kD13078W/): 1.) Dark Depths 2.) Grixis Control 3.) Colorless 12-Post 4.) Miracles 5.) Aggro Loam 6.) Mono B Reanimator 7.) B/R Reanimator 8.) Grixis Control

August 17, レガシー神トライアル, 51 players (http://www.hareruyamtg.com/en/k/kD13108W/): 1.) Grixis Control 2.) Grixis Delver 3.) Grixis Delver 4.) Grixis Delver 5.) Death's Shadow 6.) Death's Shadow 7.) Steel Stompy 8.) Death's Shadow

August 18-19, Eternal Weekend Asia 2018, 626 players (http://www.hareruyamtg.com/en/deck/search.aspx?search.x=true&tournament_name=Eternal+Weekend+Asia+2018+-+Legacy+Championship&format=Legacy): 1.) ANT 2.) Grixis Delver 3.) Lands 4.) Death's Shadow 5.) U/R Delver 6.) Infect 7.) OmniTell 8.) Miracles 9.) Grixis Control 10.) Bomberman 11.) Miracles 12.) U/R Delver 13.) RUG Delver 14.) Steel Stompy 15.) U/R OmniTell 16.) ANT 17.) Grixis Control 18.) OmniTell 19.) Eldrazi & Taxes 20.) Death's Shadow 21.) Death & Taxes 22.) Grixis Control 23.) Death's Shadow 24.) Eldrazi 25.) GWb Maverick 26.) Grixis Delver 27.) U/R Delver 28.) Lands 29.) Death's Shadow 30.) Grixis Control 31.) Turbo Depths 32.) Grixis Delver

August 19, Dallas SCG Classic, 93 players (http://www.starcitygames.com/decks/StarCityGamescom_Classic/2018-08-19_legacy_Dallas_TX_US/1/): 1.) Lands 2.) Grixis Control 3.) U/B OmniTell 4.) Death & Taxes 5.) Death & Taxes 6.) Death & Taxes 7.) Death & Taxes 8.) Steel Stompy 9.) Miracles 10.) U/G 12-Post 11.) Dragon Stompy 12.) Grixis Control 13.) Death's Shadow 14.) Death & Taxes 15.) U/W Stoneblade 16.) UWr Helm

August 19, MTGO Challenge, 84 players (https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/mtgo-standings/legacy-challenge-2018-08-20): 1.) Death's Shadow 2.) W/R Death & Taxes 3.) Death & Taxes 4.) Sneak & Show 5.) Czech Pile 6.) Esperblade 7.) Zombardment 8.) ANT 9.) Death's Shadow 10.) Steel Stompy 11.) U/B Control/Reanimator 12.) Death's Shadow 13.) Death's Shadow 14.) Death's Shadow 15.) Lands 16.) Turbo Depths

August 19, The Last Sun 2018予選 - 晴れる屋トーナメントセンター#3, 68 players (http://www.hareruyamtg.com/en/k/kD9537K/): 1.) Grixis Delver 2.) U/R Delver 3.) Reanimator 4.) Grixis Control 5.) Death's Shadow 6.) RUG Delver 7.) OmniTell 8.) B/R Reanimator

August 19, CLC - Etapa 7 - Floripa @ Palhoça, 44 players (http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=19946&f=LE): 1.) Grixis Control 2.) Grixis Delver 3.) Eldrazi 4.) Grixis Delver 5.) Burn 6.) Death & Taxes 7.) Naya Lumberjack 8.) OmniTell

August 25, 汚染された三角州》[EXP]争奪レガシー杯, 50 players (http://www.hareruyamtg.com/en/k/kD13188W/): 1.) Infect 2.) Grixis Control 3.) Death's Shadow 4.) TES 5.) Miracles 6.) Reanimator 7.) Lands 8.) Grixis Delver

August 25, Nerd Rage Gaming Championship Trial, 90+ players (http://nerdragegaming.wpengine.com/decklists-archive/legacy-nrg-ct-aug-2018/): 1.) Grixis Control 2.) Eldrazi 3.) Death & Taxes 4.) Enchantress 5.) ANT 6.) Grixis Control 7.) Grixis Delver 8.) B/R Reanimator

August 26, MTGO Challenge, 69 players (https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/mtgo-standings/legacy-challenge-2018-08-27): 1.) ANT 2.) Merfolk 3.) Grixis Control 4.) Big Eldrazi 5.) Death's Shadow 6.) Death & Taxes 7.) Death's Shadow 8.) UWR Delver 9.) Big Eldrazi 10.) Lands 11.) Grixis Landstill 12.) Lands 13.) Sneak & Show 14.) Grixis Delver 15.) Turbo Depths 16.) Turbo Depths

August 26, Channel Fireball Legacy 2K @ Channel Fireball, 82 players (https://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=19929&f=LE): 1.) Merfolk 2.) ANT 3.) Death's Shadow 4.) Sneak & Show 5.) Death's Shadow 6.) Goblins 7.) Grixis Control 8.) Maverick

August 26, Arizona Eternal Magic Champs @ Phoenix, AZ, 35 players (http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=19941&f=LE): 1.) U/R Delver 2.) Burn 3.) Colorless 12-Post 4.) Aggro Loam 5.) Aggro Loam 6.) Grixis Control 7.) RUG Delver 8.) Lands

August 26, レガシー神トライアル, 60 players (http://www.hareruyamtg.com/en/k/kD13237W/): 1.) B/R Reanimator 2.) U/R OmniTell 3.) U/R Delver 4.) OmniTell 5.) Miracles 6.) Miracles 7.) Steel Stompy 8.) Death & Taxes

August 26, ネメシスレガシー - 晴れる屋大阪店, 39 players (http://www.hareruyamtg.com/en/k/kD00615O/): 1.) Grixis Control 2.) Sneak & Show 3.) Goblins 4.) Burn 5.) ANT 6.) Mono U Control/Dark Depths 7.) U/R OmniTell 8.) ANT

August 26, London Legacy Monthly Aug 2018 @ London, 39 players (http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=19961&f=LE): 1.) Sapphire Control 2.) Punishing Maverick 3.) Goblins 4.) Death's Shadow 5.) Tin Fins Depths 6.) OmniTell w/ Sneak 7.) Death's Shadow 8.) Death's Shadow

August 26, 4° Liga Paulista @ Epic Game (São Paulo, Brazil), 50 players (http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=20013&f=LE): 1.) Esperblade 2.) BUG Control 3.) Sneak & Show 4.) Burn 5.) Elves 6.) Grixis Control 7.) Ooze Reanimator 8.) U/W Landstill

August 30, LML Sétima Etapa @ UG Cardshop, 37 players (http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=19962&f=LE): 1.) OmniTell 2.) Esperblade 3.) Burn 4.) U/W Stoneblade 5.) B/R Reanimator 6.) Death & Taxes 7.) Merfolk 8.) RUG Delver

August 31-September 1, Grand Prix Richmond, 842 players (http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=28427): 1.) Miracles 2.) Lands 3.) Miracles 4.) Death's Shadow 5.) RUG Delver 6.) U/W Stoneblade 7.) Eldrazi 8.) Grixis Control 9.) Grixis Control 10.) U/W Stoneblade/Delver 11.) Grixis Delver 12.) Eldrazi 13.) Grixis Control 14.) RUG Delver 15.) Death's Shadow 16.) Grixis Delver

September 1, Known Magicians Clan - 99th, 83 players (http://www.hareruyamtg.com/en/k/kD54132S/): 1.) Maverick 2.) Lands 3.) Grixis Control 4.) Death & Taxes 5.) U/W Stoneblade 6.) Grixis Control 7.) ANT 8.) ANT

September 1, 《ライオンの瞳のダイアモンド/Lion's Eye Diamond》争奪レガシー杯, 46 players (http://www.hareruyamtg.com/en/k/k110525/): 1.) Grixis Control 2.) Miracles 3.) Grixis Control 4.) Burn 5.) Grixis Control 6.) B/R Storm 7.) Grixis Delver 8.) ?

September 1, Community Pub Legacy @ Sydney, 36 players (https://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=20058&f=LE): 1.) Goblins 2.) Tezzeret Control 3.) Lands 4.) RUG Delver

September 2, MTGO Challenge, 80 players (https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/mtgo-standings/legacy-challenge-2018-09-03): 1.) Big Eldrazi 2.) ANT 3.) Miracles 4.) Grixis Control 5.) Elves 6.) Lands 7.) Grixis Control 8.) BUG Control 9.) BUG Loam 10.) Elves 11.) Miracles 12.) Grixis Control 13.) Lands 14.) Turbo Depths 15.) Sneak & Show 16.) Lands

September 2, 晴れる屋レガシー杯クラシック, 66 players (http://www.hareruyamtg.com/en/k/kD13311W/): 1.) Infect 2.) U/R Delver 3.) Sneak & Show 4.) Dark Depths 5.) Sneak & Show 6.) U/R Delver 7.) Miracles 8.) RUG Delver

September 2, Swiss Magic Masters 2018 @ Interlaken, 80 players (http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=20014&f=LE): 1.) Infect 2.) Death's Shadow 3.) ANT 4.) Miracles 5.) Dragon Stompy 6.) Enchantress 7.) Dark Depths 8.) Death's Shadow

September 2, 4Seasons Summer 2018, 141 players (http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=28502): 1.) Lands 2.) Death's Shadow 3.) Dredge 4.) Dark Depths 5.) Death & Taxes 6.) Maverick 7.) Death's Shadow 8.) Aluren 9.) Lands 10.) Death's Shadow 11.) Death & Taxes 12.) OmniTell 13.) Miracles 14.) Dredge 15.) Eldrazi 16.) Elves

September 8, Preservation Series 1K @ Mox Boarding House, 56 players (http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=20048&f=LE): 1.) U/W Stoneblade 2.) U/B Ninjas 3.) Miracles 4.) Death's Shadow 5.) U/G 12-Post 6.) Miracles 7.) Mono B Reanimator 8.) Turbo Depths

September 8, ネームドトーナメントフジタ・レガシー杯, 56 players (http://www.hareruyamtg.com/en/k/k127705/): 1.) Dark Depths 2.) U/R Delver 3.) Grixis Delver 4.) U/R Delver 5.) Death & Taxes 6.) Death & Taxes 7.) Death's Shadow 8.) ?

September 9, MKM Series Paris 2018 - Legacy Main Event, 194 players (http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=28498): 1.) Miracles 2.) Death & Taxes 3.) U/R Delver 4.) U/B OmniTell 5.) Grixis Control 6.) Maverick 7.) Grixis Delver 8.) Grixis Control

September 9, MTGO Challenge, 82 players (https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/mtgo-standings/legacy-challenge-2018-09-10): 1.) Death's Shadow 2.) Grixis Delver 3.) Grixis Control 4.) B/R Reanimator 5.) ANT 6.) Grixis Delver 7.) Dredge 8.) Elves 9.) Death & Taxes 10.) Miracles 11.) Big Eldrazi 12.) Naya Lumberjack 13.) Dredge 14.) Lands 15.) Aggro Loam 16.) Grixis Control

September 9, Legacy Open @ Time Vault Games, 47 players (http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=20031&f=LE): 1.) Death's Shadow 2.) ANT 3.) Grixis Control 4.) Grixis Control 5.) Death & Taxes 6.) Grixis Control 7.) Grixis Delver 8.) Merfolk

September 9, レガシー神トライアル, 78 players (http://www.hareruyamtg.com/en/k/k127703/): 1.) OmniTell 2.) ANT 3.) Death & Taxes 4.) Grixis Delver 5.) Grixis Control 6.) Lands 7.) U/R OmniTell 8.) Miracles

Zulabnar

07-17-2018, 08:50 AM

Hanni

07-17-2018, 08:54 AM

Great work.

Seems that today the scheme is control switch back to Miracle and Rug, combo switch back to Sneak and Omniscences, and prison remain with Lands, D&T and Stompy.
DDepths resist, SFM is back.

Still missing some pure aggro?

Pure aggro like Zoo is never coming back. Control (Miracles) and combo are too much of a stopping force. UR Delver and Burn will probably make a comeback though, if you're willing to consider those decks as pure aggro.

pettdan

07-17-2018, 09:01 AM

JackaBo

07-17-2018, 09:35 AM

I agree, really nice work, Scott!

One thing that strikes me is that when interpreting the numbers it makes some sense to group the different UW-based Stoneblade variants together.. You end up with 41 or 48 in total depending on if you want to include the Miracles/Stoneblade versions or not. That way the blue-white Stoneblade group of decks ends up in second place. I don't see as much overlap between the other deck archetypes in the list.

Totally agree. Esper and jeskai is usually UW with some control elements in the third colors. Bant would be another thing as it relies on dorks and possibly a green gsz/creature toolbox. Miracle is another deck though.
Great job Scott!

talpa

07-17-2018, 09:41 AM

Thank you, great work

FourDogsinaHorseSuit

07-17-2018, 09:51 AM

Tormod

07-17-2018, 11:10 AM

Where are Elves in all this?

FourDogsinaHorseSuit

07-17-2018, 11:43 AM

Where are Elves in all this?

0-2 drop'ing.

Scott

07-17-2018, 03:07 PM

Thanks for the nice words; you're all too kind.

Update: Two tournaments added

July 14, 晴れる屋レガシー杯, 67 players (http://www.hareruyamtg.com/en/k/kD12618W/): 1.) Miracles 2.) U/R Delver 3.) OmniTell 4.) Sneak & Show 5.) U/R Delver 6.) Miracles 7.) 12-Post 8.) Dragon Stompy

July 14, Let's Get Wasted! @ Prodigy Games, Florida, 48 players (http://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=19642&f=LE): 1.) U/B Helm Combo 2.) Infect 3.) Eldrazi 4.) Lands/Storm Combo 5.) Goblins 6.) High Tide 7.) Omni Sneak & Show 8.) TES

And by popular demand, U/W Stoneblade, UWR Stoneblade, and Esperblade have been merged into UWx Stoneblade.

I'll add the results of Quest for Power #4 at MTGFirst from July 15 when they're posted.

Scott

07-18-2018, 02:59 AM

Update: two tournaments added

July 15, 《狼狽の嵐》争奪レガシー杯, 70 players (http://www.hareruyamtg.com/en/k/kD12656W/): 1.) Death & Taxes 2.) Steel Stompy 3.) Esperblade 4.) Grixis Delver 5.) Steel Stompy 6.) ANT 7.) Bomberman 8.) Maverick

July 16, 晴れる屋レガシー杯, 52 players (http://www.hareruyamtg.com/en/k/kD51095S/): 1.) 12-Post 2.) Esperblade 3.) Death & Taxes 4.) OmniTell 5.) Grixis Control 6.) OmniTell 7.) Goblins 8.) Goblins

talpa

07-18-2018, 03:47 AM

tournaments addedJuly 14, 晴れる屋レガシー杯, 67 players (http://www.hareruyamtg.com/en/k/kD12618W/): 1.) Miracles 2.) U/R Delver 3.) OmniTell 4.) Sneak & Show 5.) U/R Delver 6.) Miracles 7.) 12-Post 8.) Dragon Stompy

I think there is a problem, UR Delver lists 4 gitaxian probe... either the list or the date is wrong. Because of this, I don't know if we should include this tournament in the count.

Ronald Deuce

07-18-2018, 01:46 PM

Counterbalances and Chalices everywhere.

Congrats, team; we're back where we were two years ago.

Fox

07-18-2018, 01:53 PM

Card Kingdom has a 1k coming up this Saturday iirc, should be a good source of 50-75 deck format analysis.

Ellomdian

07-18-2018, 02:39 PM

Still missing some pure aggro?

I'm confused by this - what is 'Pure Aggro'? Because if stuff like Stompy, Affinity, and Goblins doesn't qualify, I'm not sure what you mean.

Scott

07-18-2018, 03:18 PM

One tournament added, and rankings in the OP updated:

July 14, LCL July 2018, 46 players (http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=28010): 1.) Sneak & Show 2.) Turbo Depths 3.) Death & Taxes 4.) Reanimator 5.) Burn 6.) Goblins 7.) RUG Cascade 8.) B/R Reanimator 9.) Death & Taxes 10.) RUG Delver 11.) Steel Stompy 12.) Burn 13.) Dragon Stompy 14.) Steel Stompy 15.) Steel Stompy 16.) Eldrazi & Taxes

I used the top 16 results for this tournament because it was available and because I previously did so with the larger tournaments. Do you guys want me to do that with smaller tournaments like this 46-player one, or just use the top 8 since it's a 6-rounder? FYI, using TCDecks's & the Source's system, you get a point for each round (plus a point for each win in the top 8), so results from smaller tournaments already get fewer points; it's just a question of including places 9-16 or not.

I think there is a problem, UR Delver lists 4 gitaxian probe... either the list or the date is wrong. Because of this, I don't know if we should include this tournament in the count.

Good catch. It's strange that the other U/R Delver list from the tournament doesn't have Probes, if we're assuming the date's wrong. I'm gonna remove the tournament's results as we don't know if it's a card input error or date input error from pre-ban; I can add it later if it's amended. I'm personally hoping that one U/R Delver pilot was just more intimidating than the other one and refused to take his Probes out.

Jax-

07-19-2018, 04:02 PM

I don't really get the hype for RUG Delver.
The deck is outdated, Mongoose is by far the worst creature in the format, seriously, a 3/3 shroud for G that doesn't go online until turn 3, at least? In 2018?
It does have A LOT of bad matchups, deck is VERY hard to play and most of the users are just not competent enough.
I think that is also a factor for the huge success of D&T, deck is very good and probably tier1, but with the huge amount of RUG around, it definetly have a lot of free wins.
I get the nostalgia factor, but when people will realize that the deck just lose to almost every piece of hate, have a super slow clock because plays 4 1/1 and a t2 Goyf is not always a 4/5 but a lot of times is a 2/3, I think we will prolly see a VERY different meta, something more close to be "solved".

NeckBird

07-19-2018, 04:22 PM

I'm confused by this - what is 'Pure Aggro'? Because if stuff like Stompy, Affinity, and Goblins doesn't qualify, I'm not sure what you mean.

Goblins is definitely on the aggro spectrum, but it's more of a control deck than aggro. It's difficult to explain this without playing it yourself.

The other two decks play Chalice and other forms of disruption which I suppose is what prevents them from being considered pure aggro. I think Affinity is an aggro deck, but Stompy really isn't anymore.

A pretty big reason why pure aggro decks are completely out of Legacy is in part because Wizards hasn't printed any aggro cards in the supplemental sets they've printed that have contained Baleful Strix, Leovold, Dack Fayden, and True-Name Nemesis. I don't understand why WotC keeps printing dumb blue cards when there's far more experimentation in WR, GR, WB, and RB. If they wanted to they could print busted aggro cards, or at least some non-blue midrange cards, in these sets so maybe there could be some more experimentation in Legacy.

Matsu

07-20-2018, 03:05 AM

...
I don't understand why WotC keeps printing dumb blue cards when there's far more experimentation in WR, GR, WB, and RB. If they wanted to they could print busted aggro cards, or at least some non-blue midrange cards, in these sets so maybe there could be some more experimentation in Legacy.

Lets give them another chance Commander 2018 incoming :wink:

Icapica

07-20-2018, 03:24 AM

Lets give them another chance Commander 2018 incoming :wink:

Since I remember seeing people working at WotC mention multiple times that the reason aggro doesn't do well in eternal formats is because of combo, I don't think they're even aware of the actual issue. Zoo could lose almost all the time to fast combo and still be playable if it had enough other good matchups.

NeckBird

07-20-2018, 10:10 AM

Since I remember seeing people working at WotC mention multiple times that the reason aggro doesn't do well in eternal formats is because of combo, I don't think they're even aware of the actual issue. Zoo could lose almost all the time to fast combo and still be playable if it had enough other good matchups.

Yeah, I think Zoo or something similar could be fine if they had access to a solid 60 card main. Then, just play a 15 card anti-combo sideboard and you'll probably do okay. I mean, it works for Lands right? Lands has almost zero positive combo matchups and only a few unfavorable fair matchups game one, but they just throw 15 anti-combo cards in their sideboard and just get there.

Hanni

07-20-2018, 10:24 AM

Yeah, I think Zoo or something similar could be fine if they had access to a solid 60 card main. Then, just play a 15 card anti-combo sideboard and you'll probably do okay. I mean, it works for Lands right? Lands has almost zero positive combo matchups and only a few unfavorable fair matchups game one, but they just throw 15 anti-combo cards in their sideboard and just get there.

Lands (18)
3 Scalding Tarn
3 Wooded Foothills
2 Bloodstained Mire
2 Arid Mesa
4 Volcanic Island
2 Mountain
2 Barbarian Ring

Creatures (14)
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Goblin Guide
2 Grim Lavamancer

Spells (28)
4 Brainstorm
4 Daze
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
4 Rift Bolt
4 Forked Bolt
2 Price of Progress
2 Fireblast

Sideboard (15)
4 Smash to Smithereens
4 Force of Will
2 Spell Pierce
2 Seal of Removal
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Pithing Needle

07-21-2018, 06:05 PM

Scott

07-22-2018, 02:13 AM

One tournament added, OP rankings updated:

July 14, MTA Legacy Championship @ Guangzhou, China, 129 players (http://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=19664&f=LE): 1.) Tezzeret Control 2.) RUG Delver 3.) B/R Reanimator 4.) Sneak & Show 5.) UWR Stoneblade 6.) Sneak & Show 7.) Sneak & Show 8.) RUG Delver

Scott

07-22-2018, 08:35 PM

One tournament added, OP rankings updated:

July 22, MKM Series Prague, 227 players (http://series.magiccardmarket.eu/coverage-mkm-series-prague-2018-legacy/#top8decks): 1.) Elves 2.) Eldrazi 3.) Miracles 4.) Miracles 5.) OmniTell w/ Sneak 6.) Eldrazi 7.) Miracles 8.) BUG Control

Scott

07-23-2018, 12:35 AM

Another tournament added and OP rankings updated:

July 22, Philadelphia SCG Classic, 170 players (http://www.starcitygames.com/decks/StarCityGamescom_Classic/2018-07-22_legacy_Philadelphia_PA_US/1/): 1.) BUG Depths 2.) U/W Helm 3.) Miracles 4.) Big Eldrazi 5.) Infect 6.) Elves 7.) Grixis Delver 8.) Big Eldrazi 9.) U/G 12-Post 10.) Death & Taxes 11.) Aggro Loam 12.) Grixis Delver 13.) U/W Standstill 14.) TES 15.) Big Eldrazi 16.) Sneak & Show

Icapica

07-23-2018, 03:07 AM

0-2 drop'ing.

Not anymore it seems :) Great to see Elves get results again. All in all I really like how the meta is looking so far.

Hanni

07-23-2018, 09:55 AM

Good luck ever casting those sb FoW with 12 maindeck blue cards and some random bs blue cards, nice deck. Do you pitch your Spell Pierce or Daze to it, or the Delver you wanted to play t1? UR Delver is straight up unplayable.

The postboard configuration with FoW is 18-20 blue spells, depending on the combo matchup, which is plenty.

I pitch whatever I feel is the weakest other blue card in my hand at the time. If I have a creature heavy draw, I'm cool with pitching Delver. If mana looks to be tight to where I'm not sure when I'll be able to hold open U for Spell Pierce, then I'll pitch that. It just depends on the situation. This isn't any different from how UR Delver would do it; I just don't have Ponder.

I disagree with your assessment that the deck is straight up unplayable, but to each his own. I took the deck to an 11-4 finish at GP Louisville and I do well at locals with it. I haven't gotten to play in too many larger events with it, but I've done pretty well with it when I have.

I'm not really trying to convince you otherwise, but someone made a post that fit pretty neatly with what I consider my primary deck of choice for competitive events, so I posted my list in response.

Zilla

07-23-2018, 11:34 AM

Okay but why Seal of Removal? Isn't Vapor Snag better in that deck?

whienot

07-23-2018, 12:15 PM

Okay but why Seal of Removal? Isn't Vapor Snag better in that deck?

Seal is pretty solid vs. Show and Tell.

Hanni

07-23-2018, 12:35 PM

whienot summed it up pretty well, but I'll elaborate just a tad more. Vapor Snag hits Turbo Depths and Reanimator, but isn't very good against Sneak and Show (can't target Emrakul). Seal of Removal deals with all three matchups. It's simply the more versatile option.

It can also be nice to be able to proactively put it into play against decks with discard (Depths/Reanimator), but that's only an ancillary reason to run it.

Also, sorry to derail the thread. Carry on.

Scott

07-23-2018, 03:26 PM

One tournament added, OP rankings updated:

July 22, MTGO Challenge, 83 players (https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/mtgo-standings/legacy-challenge-2018-07-23): 1.) Big Eldrazi 2.) Death & Taxes 3.) U/W Stoneblade 4.) Sneak & Show 5.) Eldrazi 6.) Death & Taxes 7.) RUG Delver 8.) Death & Taxes 9.) B/R Reanimator 10.) Zombardment 11.) Lands 12.) Punishing Dack 13.) Merfolk 14.) TES 15.) Sneak & Show 16.) U/R Delver
(#17-32 aren't tabulated here, but are in the link)

Also: After getting some feedback, I've removed the #9-16 placings of July 14, LCL July 2018, 46 players (http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=28010) from the numbers, as it was a smaller tournament and including the full top 16 would include middle-of-the-pack decks from the tournament (records like 3-3), and skew an accurate meta representation. You can still find the deck lists at the link.

Scott

07-24-2018, 02:09 PM

One tournament added, OP rankings updated:

July 22, CLC 2018 - Etapa 6 - Itajaí @ Blackout Games, 38 players (http://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=19682&f=LE): 1.) RUG Delver 2.) Reanimator 3.) Grixis Control 4.) U/R OmniTell 5.) Death & Taxes 6.) Eldrazi 7.) Grixis Control 8.) Dragon Stompy

Scott

07-25-2018, 02:42 PM

One tournament added, OP rankings updated:

July 22, Legacy at Grand Prix Chiba, 231 players (http://www.hareruyamtg.com/en/k/kD51742S/): 1.) Grixis Control 2.) Miracles 3.) Lands 4.) Miracles 5.) OmniTell 6.) Grixis Delver 7.) Grixis Control 8.) Miracles

Hanni

07-25-2018, 03:08 PM

Scott

07-25-2018, 04:38 PM

Two tournaments added, OP rankings updated:

July 15, 関帝前哨戦レガシー - 晴れる屋大阪店, 44 players (http://www.hareruyamtg.com/en/k/kD00177F/): 1.) Miracles 2.) UWR Delver 3.) Sneak & Show 4.) Grixis Delver 5.) Death & Taxes 6.) Pox 7.) U/R Delver 8.) U/W Stoneblade

July 7, 晴れる屋レガシー杯, 35 players (http://www.hareruyamtg.com/en/k/kD50799S/): 1.) ANT 2.) Eldrazi 3.) Food Chain 4.) U/R Delver 5.) Grixis Delver 6.) Esperblade 7.) Miracles 8.) Infect

Megadeus

07-25-2018, 06:10 PM

Looks like banning DRS changed the meta a whole lot. Much more diverse now.

Turns out nobody has any interest in trying something new. Brainstorm still reigns supreme

Ronald Deuce

07-25-2018, 11:01 PM

Turns out nobody has any interest in trying something new. Brainstorm still reigns supreme

Maximal trolling is maximal.

Scott

07-26-2018, 02:26 PM

One tournament added, OP rankings updated:

July 21, Preservation Series 1K @ Mox Boarding House Bellevue, 48 players (http://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=19705&f=LE): 1.) OmniTell w/ Sneak 2.) Grixis Control 3.) Aggro Loam 4.) Maverick 5.) Death & Taxes 6.) Goblins 7.) OmniTell w/ Sneak 8.) ANT

Scott

07-29-2018, 02:19 AM

One tournament added, OP rankings updated:

July 28, 第二期関西帝王レガシー - 晴れる屋大阪店, 88 players (http://www.hareruyamtg.com/en/k/kD02829T/): 1.) ANT 2.) Dragon Stompy 3.) Death & Taxes 4.) Miracles 5.) Colorless 12-Post 6.) U/R Delver 7.) Bomberman 8.) Pox

Scott

07-29-2018, 01:19 PM

Three tournaments added, OP rankings updated:

July 21, Magic Bazar Paris Monthly @ Paris, 33 players (http://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=19727&d=326866&f=LE): 1.) Esperblade 2.) Humans 3.) Grixis Death's Shadow 4.) Dragon Stompy 5.) Grixis Control 6.) OmniTell 7.) RUG Delver 8.) Tempo Zoo

July 28, Staples @ Collector Legion (Gardena, California), 46 players (http://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=19728&f=LE): 1.) Grixis Control 2.) Eldrazi 3.) Dredge 4.) Sneak & Show 5.) Esperblade 6.) Sneak & Show 7.) Sneak & Show 8.) ANT

July 28, Millennium Games Legacy Series @ Rochester NY, 44 players (http://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=19726&f=LE): 1.) Lands 2.) TES 3.) UWr Stoneblade 4.) OmniTell 5.) Grixis Control 6.) UWr Stoneblade 7.) Lands 8.) Punishing Maverick

Scott

07-30-2018, 02:40 PM

One tournament added, OP rankings updated:

July 29, MTGO Challenge, 7 rounds (https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/mtgo-standings/legacy-challenge-2018-07-30): 1.) Grixis Control 2.) Aluren 3.) RUG Delver 4.) Miracles 5.) Miracles 6.) RUG Delver 7.) Grixis Control 8.) Miracles 9.) Soldier Stompy 10.) Sneak & Show 11.) B/R Reanimator 12.) Sneak & Show 13.) Death & Taxes 14.) Grixis Control 15.) Steel Stompy 16.) ANT

Lava Snacks

07-30-2018, 03:16 PM

So, which deck is good against Miracles, Show and Tell, Stoneblade, Death & Taxes, Grixis Control, RUG Delver, and Chalice? Or most of it.

Barachai

07-30-2018, 03:31 PM

So, which deck is good against Miracles, Show and Tell, Stoneblade, Death & Taxes, Grixis Control, RUG Delver, and Chalice? Or most of it.

I'd be happy on Big Eldrazi vs most of those. Death and Taxes would incline me to run Ballistae in some number, would want to be on Spyglass main over 3Ball.

Megadeus

07-30-2018, 04:11 PM

Looks like 8+ cantrips is still the best thing to do. More sacrificial lambs to the brainstorm altar

Zulabnar

07-31-2018, 05:17 AM

Looks like 8+ cantrips is still the best thing to do. More sacrificial lambs to the brainstorm altar

Guess next is Terminus.

Poron

07-31-2018, 05:52 AM

Next is Show and Tell or those impossibly cheap creatures like Delver and Angler. I mean Grixis can play 20 counters, mana denial and drop 5/5 with no drawback. Curiously they are the top dogs.

This is the base of 80% of top decks
4 Daze
4 Fow
2 Pierce
4 Ponder
4 Brainstorm
3/4 Preordain

Then the finisher can be either SFM, Angler TNN, Delver, YP, Mentor, Clique (super cheap and effective creatures that don’t distract your mana too much) or SnT/Sneak Attack/Reanimate

The results depends on the variance of draws in the end. The problem? It has been like this for 10 years. The only variants are Eldrazi, BR Rea and...?

Matsaya

07-31-2018, 06:33 AM

D&T, Lands, moon stompy, elves, …

MechTactical

07-31-2018, 09:30 AM

Funny, i thought we'd see more maverick..

Poron

07-31-2018, 09:33 AM

Why? Control decks have Terminus/K.Return and black has Toxic Deluge

Maverick forte has been historically the lands are everyone is playing mana denial

LOLWut

07-31-2018, 02:29 PM

This is the base of 80% of top decks
4 Daze
4 Fow
2 Pierce
4 Ponder
4 Brainstorm
3/4 Preordain
...
The only variants are Eldrazi, BR Rea and...?

Blue penetration is high enough; you don't have to pad the numbers with incorrect facts.

Cire

07-31-2018, 03:15 PM

you don't have to pad the numbers with incorrect facts.

Sort of related tangentially, is anyone a programmer on these boards with experience programming recurrent neural networks? What would happen if you feed such a network all the top decks from the past year of tournements - what decklists would the program give out? (Related, because I'm assuming if the network sees X certain blue cards over and over, it will create a deck list with those x blue cards). I'm guessing the feed into the network will have to be curtailed (unless we want random elves/goblins etc showing up) to "blue" decks, but would be curious what blue decks the network would give out (and would also be curious on the overall input/output).

Ronald Deuce

07-31-2018, 03:36 PM

Brael

07-31-2018, 05:51 PM

Sort of related tangentially, is anyone a programmer on these boards with experience programming recurrent neural networks? What would happen if you feed such a network all the top decks from the past year of tournements - what decklists would the program give out? (Related, because I'm assuming if the network sees X certain blue cards over and over, it will create a deck list with those x blue cards). I'm guessing the feed into the network will have to be curtailed (unless we want random elves/goblins etc showing up) to "blue" decks, but would be curious what blue decks the network would give out (and would also be curious on the overall input/output).

Somewhat. I've had something of an ongoing project for a couple years now teaching a computer to play MTG. The projects currently on hold but I was able to identify a few successful cards and deck configurations with what I had built.

It gets really, really complex but I'm always happy to talk about it if people are interested. Suffice it to say, I found a system which I believe works, but isn't time efficient enough to handle a big pool of cards.

My current approach is actually a bit different, and ranks cards vs cards given criteria to create pass/fail conditions, and then uses a bit of social network analysis to create groups of core cards. The trick to this, is that it requires an absolutely immense amount of data, but should in theory be possible because it just has to parse oracle text properly. Though, such a system is only good for aggro, midrange, and control. It will not identify combos.

Cire

07-31-2018, 07:03 PM

Brael

07-31-2018, 07:27 PM

@Brael: that's really interesting, but I was primarily thinking that the only variables would be the card names and numbers, no need to parse oracle texts. In effect instead of a network figuring out the best deck of a certain type for a certain metagame (what I believe you're trying to do), I wanted to know if the network could figure out the most common cards and numbers based on decks that have been played within a certain time frame.

That's easy, you don't even need a neural network for it. A database and charting the results is enough. I don't think the results are particularly helpful though. If I understand you correctly, all you're really trying to do is correlate the prevalence of specific cards to the success or failure of particular decks.

The real issue with that has nothing to do with technology and more to do with the amount of data available. Magic is an incredibly variable game, and it's pretty hard to get statistically significant amounts of information like this out of the tournaments that get reported. There's enough data available to make an approximation as to what decks are generally successful, but not enough to go into details for that success.

This is very important when you're trying to look at single cards because minor deck changes may or may not have any impact what so ever in outcomes. For example, I've run simulations before where over 10 million games, a 24 land deck made it's first 4 land drops many more times than a 26 land deck (50 vs 45%) and where a 28 land deck drew 0 lands in more opening hands than a 22 land deck (1% vs <0.1%). A handful of cards, in a handful of decks, over a very small sample size isn't really guaranteed to give you any accurate information.

Scott

07-31-2018, 08:31 PM

Two tournaments added, OP rankings updated:

July 28, The Last Sun 2018予選 - 晴れる屋トーナメントセンター#2, 72 players (http://www.hareruyamtg.com/en/k/kD12816W/): 1.) Grixis Control 2.) Grixis Control 3.) Eldrazi & Taxes 4.) Dark Depths 5.) ANT 6.) BUG Death's Shadow 7.) Miracles 8.) Sneak & Show

July 28, LML Sexta etapa 22/7 @ TCGeek, 35 players (http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=19744&f=LE): 1.) Elves 2.) Miracles 3.) Goblins 4.) ? 5.) Turbo Depths 6.) Dredge 7.) Esperblade 8.) Merfolk

Scott

08-01-2018, 04:07 PM

Three tournaments added, OP rankings updated:

July 28, 37º Alpha Legacy @ Magic Store (Brasil), 40 players (http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=19762&f=LE): 1.) U/W Helm 2.) U/W Stoneblade 3.) Steel Stompy 4.) Shardless BUG 5.) OmniTell w/ Sneak 6.) B/R Reanimator 7.) BUG Lands 8.) Jund

July 29, レガシー神トライアル, 83 players (http://www.hareruyamtg.com/en/k/kD12850W/): 1.) Miracles 2.) U/B Death's Shadow 3.) Grixis Control 4.) Colorless 12-Post 5.) Grixis Control 6.) Aluren 7.) Aggro Loam 8.) Pox

July 29, Monthly July @ London, 42 players (http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=19760&f=LE): 1.) Miracles 2.) Miracles 3.) Elves 4.) Lands 5.) Aggro Loam 6.) Goblins 7.) Goblins 8.) Lands

SpatulaOfTheAges

08-02-2018, 04:48 AM

So, which deck is good against Miracles, Show and Tell, Stoneblade, Death & Taxes, Grixis Control, RUG Delver, and Chalice? Or most of it.

Enchantress is 50-50 with SnS and has a positive matchup against the rest.

Brael

08-02-2018, 01:24 PM

Three tournaments added, OP rankings updated:

Do you happen to be tracking this information by date so that we can see week to week changes? Or are you only tracking total points? I've been following the rankings as posts are made and find it interesting how decks are rising and falling.

Scott

08-03-2018, 04:46 PM

Do you happen to be tracking this information by date so that we can see week to week changes? Or are you only tracking total points? I've been following the rankings as posts are made and find it interesting how decks are rising and falling.

Alas, I haven't been tabulating the data in a way that allows me to break it down by date or anything. I thought about it, to get a visual of the meta flow, even if it was just keeping records of updates, but some of the updates include late-coming data, so fluctuations are partially influenced by weeks-old events. I do have the tournaments sorted by date in the OP, though, so analysis could be done after inputting that.

And a mini update:

July 15, MLL #11, 37 players (http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=28126): 1.) Reanimator Depths 2.) U/R Delver 3.) RUG Delver 4.) Dragon Stompy 5.) RUG Delver 6.) Death & Taxes 7.) Sneak & Show 8.) Dragon Stompy

Scott

08-05-2018, 01:34 PM

One tournament added, OP rankings updated:

August 4, Legacy Preservation Series @ Mox Boarding House Seattle, 43 players (http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=19779&f=LE): 1.) Tin Fins Depths 2.) UWR Stoneblade 3.) U/G 12-Post 4.) Big Eldrazi 5.) Burn 6.) Lands 7.) Lands 8.) RUG Delver

Brael

08-05-2018, 04:02 PM

Alas, I haven't been tabulating the data in a way that allows me to break it down by date or anything. I thought about it, to get a visual of the meta flow, even if it was just keeping records of updates, but some of the updates include late-coming data, so fluctuations are partially influenced by weeks-old events. I do have the tournaments sorted by date in the OP, though, so analysis could be done after inputting that.

And a mini update:

July 15, MLL #11, 37 players (http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=28126): 1.) Reanimator Depths 2.) U/R Delver 3.) RUG Delver 4.) Dragon Stompy 5.) RUG Delver 6.) Death & Taxes 7.) Sneak & Show 8.) Dragon Stompy

I might build and make available a database for that. Deck/date would be easy, but I'm debating if it would be worth including decklists which takes a little more time to add in.

Scott

08-06-2018, 04:05 PM

One tournament added, OP rankings updated:

August 5, MTGO Challenge, 100 players (https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/mtgo-standings/legacy-challenge-2018-08-06): 1.) RUG Delver 2.) Merfolk 3.) Lands 4.) Reanimator 5.) Grixis Control 6.) Miracles 7.) Grixis Control 8.) Sneak & Show 9.) Miracles 10.) Grixis Delver 11.) B/R Reanimator 12.) Infect 13.) Faeries 14.) TES 15.) Death's Shadow 16.) Big Eldrazi

I might build and make available a database for that. Deck/date would be easy, but I'm debating if it would be worth including decklists which takes a little more time to add in.

Awesome

Scott

08-08-2018, 03:21 PM

Four tournaments added, OP rankings updated:

August 4, ネームドトーナメントトミザワ・レガシー杯, 53 players (http://www.hareruyamtg.com/en/k/kD12917W/): 1.) Dark Depths 2.) TES 3.) Eldrazi 4.) Grixis Control 5.) Grixis Control 6.) Tin Fins 7.) Goblins 8.) Tezzeret Control

August 5, 晴れる屋レガシー杯, 46 players (http://www.hareruyamtg.com/en/k/kD9495K/): 1.) Grixis Control 2.) Miracles 3.) Lands 4.) TES 5.) Miracles 6.) B/R Reanimator 7.) Miracles 8.) Miracles

August 5, The Last Sun 2018予選 - ファミコンランド小松店, 33 players (http://www.hareruyamtg.com/en/k/kD52502S/): 1.) Mono G 12-Post 2.) U/W Stoneblade 3.) Pox 4.) Grixis Control

August 5, Pro Series @ Fire & Dice (Winnetka, California), 33 players (http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=19793&f=LE): 1.) Grixis Control 2.) Goblins 3.) Eldrazi 4.) Turbo Depths 5.) Death & Taxes 6.) U/W Landstill 7.) Sneak & Show 8.) BUG Delver

Note: I've been classifying the varied Japanese "UBR Junk" lists (http://www.hareruyamtg.com/en/deck/search.aspx?search.x=true&archetype=A001043&format=Legacy&date_format=Legacy%20-%20Archive) as Grixis Control.

Scott

08-10-2018, 02:46 PM

One tournament added, OP rankings updated:

August 5, Eternal Challenge II - DF @ PvP, 47 players (http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=19811&f=LE): 1.) Burn 2.) Pox 3.) Death & Taxes 4.) OmniTell w/ Sneak 5.) Burn 6.) Death's Shadow 7.) Dragon Stompy 8.) Slivers

LOLWut

08-10-2018, 04:04 PM

Looks like Death & Taxes and Grixis Delver have lost some steam compared to right after the bannings, while Grixis Control has been picking up steam. It's all pretty in flux.

Zulabnar

08-11-2018, 06:37 AM

Looks like Death & Taxes and Grixis Delver have lost some steam compared to right after the bannings, while Grixis Control has been picking up steam. It's all pretty in flux.

Yes, in the long run is always matter of "find what match good with good blue xerox cantrip shell"

jmlima

08-13-2018, 06:12 AM

Yes, in the long run is always matter of "find what match good with good blue xerox cantrip shell"

It could be funny, but it's actually a little bit sad. They tried to stop miracles, miracles is now up again, they try to stop grixis good stuff, it's now also on the up. Which should make obvious that the issue (if you chose to think there is one) is not with individual cards, but with the xerox cantrip shell, but alas, it doesn't.

Poron

08-13-2018, 08:04 AM

The issue with Grixis and Miracle is Snapcaster Mage. Everyone is playing 4.

That with a stuffed graveyard is pretty much the best tool possible to hold
AND card advantage.

Combined with cards that were already granting card advantage is just absurd (Hymn to Tourach, Kolaghan’s Command, Predict, Accumulated Knowledge)

Zombie

08-13-2018, 08:12 AM

It's Necropotence all over again. More sacrifices to the altar!

It's surprising, though. They've tamped down on the cantrips in every other format but Pauper, and the history of all manner of different card games routinely shows high velocity strategies are the best thing to do. Xerox is particularily hilarious since there were articles about how "Brainstorm is the best thing to do in Legacy" years before Innistrad ever saw print. That's been proven to be amply true time and time again and nothing happens.

It's similar to movement abilities in other games. In eg. League of Legends, the devs are on record saying they have to make movement abilities basically broken for people to even consider picking them, but pros would tear the game in half with them if they did it and they'd all be playing those abilities. They intentionally design movement abilities to "read bad" because that's when they typically are at a good power level. The effect is huge, even if they seem bad on a quick read. I think velocity is much the same. The effect is so fundamentally good the cards have to look bad for the effects to be fine.

Megadeus

08-13-2018, 09:31 AM

"Hey WOTC look at brainstorms numbers they're pretty high"
"Fine we'll ban survival"
"Hey WOTC look at brainstorms numbers they're pretty high"
"Fine we'll ban treasure cruise"
"Hey WOTC look at brainstorms numbers they're pretty high"
"Fine we'll ban Dig Through Time"
"Hey WOTC look at brainstorms numbers they're pretty high"
"Fine we'll ban Top"
"Hey WOTC look at brainstorms numbers they're pretty high"
"Fine we'll ban Deathrite"
"Hey WOTC look at brainstorms numbers they're pretty high"
"Earthcraft is too powerful for legacy"

Dice_Box

08-13-2018, 10:09 AM

We have a thread for this talk, it ain't in here.

CptHaddock

08-13-2018, 11:19 AM

Note: I've been classifying the varied Japanese "UBR Junk" lists (http://www.hareruyamtg.com/en/deck/search.aspx?search.x=true&archetype=A001043&format=Legacy&date_format=Legacy%20-%20Archive) as Grixis Control.

Grixis Junk is a very fitting name for the archetype.

"Hey WOTC look at brainstorms numbers they're pretty high"
"Fine we'll ban survival"
"Hey WOTC look at brainstorms numbers they're pretty high"
"Fine we'll ban treasure cruise"
"Hey WOTC look at brainstorms numbers they're pretty high"
"Fine we'll ban Dig Through Time"
"Hey WOTC look at brainstorms numbers they're pretty high"
"Fine we'll ban Top"
"Hey WOTC look at brainstorms numbers they're pretty high"
"Fine we'll ban Deathrite"
"Hey WOTC look at brainstorms numbers they're pretty high"
"Earthcraft is too powerful for legacy"

The solution here is to ban chalice of the void.

Fox

08-13-2018, 11:39 AM

Grixis Junk is a very fitting name for the archetype.

Prefer Grixis tap-out jammy jams.

Scott

08-13-2018, 03:07 PM

One tournament added, OP rankings updated:

August 12, MTGO Challenge, 7 rounds (https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/mtgo-standings/legacy-challenge-2018-08-13): 1.) ANT 2.) Grixis Delver 3.) Eldrazi 4.) Turbo Depths 5.) Sneak & Show 6.) Turbo Depths 7.) Grixis Delver 8.) Sneak & Show 9.) Steel Stompy 10.) Grixis Delver 11.) Death & Taxes 12.) Grixis Control 13.) Elves 14.) Steel Stompy 15.) Burn 16.) U/R Delver

Note: There's some question as to where Sneak & Show ends and where OmniTell begins. Previously, I labeled lists with Omniscience + Cunning Wish as OmniTell, and if it had Sneak Attack I'd just note it. A number of these lists now run 2-3 Cunning Wish and Sneak Attack, but don't have a combo finish like Release the Ants in the wish board. I feel that if you always win with Griselbrand/Emrakul, it's Sneak & Show, and if you have the Omniscience/Cunning Wish/wish board non-combat kill, it's OmniTell. Is that how others see it? So I switched three over. Of course, there's always the option to combine if people want that, ignoring if it's U/R, Mono U, U/B, etc.

Megadeus

08-13-2018, 03:34 PM

I can agree with your reasoning. I think they should be different since I definitely board a bit differently depending on the decks. I know against straight up omni needle effects and revoker are useless whereas they are worth boarding against sneak. Similar to ANT and TES where yes the game plan is incredibly similar, but they do demand slightly different answers

Poron

08-13-2018, 07:44 PM

Notice no Miracle anymore.. I have been saying it for quite some time

Both UW and Jeskai Miracle are quite subpar. They cantrip into Ovlivion then die for a resolved Bitterblossom/TNN

Ronald Deuce

08-14-2018, 01:46 AM

They cantrip into Ovlivion then die for a resolved Bitterblossom/TNN

But cantrips are so powerful! How could a person lose by drawing more of them?

EDIT: Also, SHARKCASTER MAGE.

Megadeus

08-14-2018, 08:07 AM

Notice no Miracle anymore.. I have been saying it for quite some time

Both UW and Jeskai Miracle are quite subpar. They cantrip into Ovlivion then die for a resolved Bitterblossom/TNN

Literally last weekend one of the events had 4 of the top 8 were miracles. Just because you go one weekend without a top 8 doesn't mean the deck is dead

CptHaddock

08-14-2018, 08:27 AM

Fox

08-14-2018, 10:50 AM

Notice no Miracle anymore.. I have been saying it for quite some time

Both UW and Jeskai Miracle are quite subpar. They cantrip into Ovlivion then die for a resolved Bitterblossom/TNN

You're talking about the deck that's at the top of the stats tracked in this thread. Legacy is still defined by two Hymns, actual Hymn and blue hymn (Counterbalance) - as long as Hymn/SCM/Kcomm is seeing play and winning as much as it is, the only real strategy to beat it is Counterbalance (floating 2 drops, and postboard being able to counter 3x REB) and staying off-board with anything not an enchantment. Less real strategies exist like Big Eldrazi and most things with any reason to maindeck Leyline of the Void playsets...

Scott

08-14-2018, 01:55 PM

Three tournaments added, OP rankings updated:

August 11, 《汚染された三角州》[EXP]争奪レガシー杯, 86 players (http://www.hareruyamtg.com/en/k/kD13014W/): 1.) Sneak & Show 2.) Reanimator 3.) Jund 4.) Grixis Control 5.) Food Chain 6.) Death & Taxes 7.) Colorless 12-Post 8.) ?

August 12, Known Magicians Clan - 98th, 113 players (http://www.hareruyamtg.com/en/k/kD52728S/): 1.) Lands 2.) Grixis Control 3.) Miracles 4.) Sneak & Show 5.) Miracles 6.) U/R Delver 7.) U/W Stoneblade 8.) Esperblade

August 12, [Los Angeles, CA] Knight Ware - August, 69 players (http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=28249): 1.) Grixis Delver 2.) U/W Stoneblade 3.) U/R Delver 4.) Death's Shadow 5.) Esperblade 6.) Grixis Control 7.) Miracles 8.) B/R Reanimator

Megadeus

08-14-2018, 03:12 PM

ahg113

08-14-2018, 04:13 PM

Oh no only 3 miracles in the top 8 this week! RIP Miracles

On the bright side, there was as many as 6 (Jund, D&T, Colorless 12-Post, B/R Reanimator, Lands, ?) non-Brainstorm decks. So Brainstorm is ever alive and uber represented at the top tables.

Zulabnar

08-18-2018, 06:53 AM

On the bright side, there was as many as 6 (Jund, D&T, Colorless 12-Post, B/R Reanimator, Lands, ?) non-Brainstorm decks. So Brainstorm is ever alive and uber represented at the top tables.

sad weekend in Japan.
1 non blue deck (lands) in top 8

koten

08-18-2018, 12:21 PM

sad weekend in Japan.
1 non blue deck (lands) in top 8

Is the top 8 posted anywhere as of yet?

Zulabnar

08-18-2018, 05:52 PM

Is the top 8 posted anywhere as of yet?

http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=28236

say no to scurvy

08-18-2018, 06:04 PM

http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=28236

That's a different event...from last week.

say no to scurvy

08-19-2018, 10:18 AM

sad weekend in Japan.
1 non blue deck (lands) in top 8

The irony is that I think you looked at a different event but I think you're correct for this weekend's top 8 as well

Zulabnar

08-19-2018, 10:37 AM

The irony is that I think you looked at a different event but I think you're correct for this weekend's top 8 as well

lol

i hope it will be different...

Ronald Deuce

08-19-2018, 01:31 PM

Storm is dead.

ahg113

08-19-2018, 07:08 PM

storm is dead.

ruby storm!

Scott

08-20-2018, 02:29 PM

Big update, with a lot of Death:

August 12, Win A Dual 29 @ Tuebingen, Germany, 46 players (https://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=19845&f=LE): 1.) Aggro Loam 2.) Lands 3.) W/R Death & Taxes 4.) Grixis Delver 5.) Aggro Loam 6.) Death & Taxes 7.) Merfolk 8.) Miracles

August 19, Dallas SCG Classic, 93 players (http://www.starcitygames.com/decks/StarCityGamescom_Classic/2018-08-19_legacy_Dallas_TX_US/1/): 1.) Lands 2.) Grixis Control 3.) U/B OmniTell 4.) Death & Taxes 5.) Death & Taxes 6.) Death & Taxes 7.) Death & Taxes 8.) Steel Stompy 9.) Miracles 10.) U/G 12-Post 11.) Dragon Stompy 12.) Grixis Control 13.) Death's Shadow 14.) Death & Taxes 15.) U/W Stoneblade 16.) UWr Helm

August 19, MTGO Challenge, 84 players (https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/mtgo-standings/legacy-challenge-2018-08-20): 1.) Death's Shadow 2.) W/R Death & Taxes 3.) Death & Taxes 4.) Sneak & Show 5.) Czech Pile 6.) Esperblade 7.) Zombardment 8.) ANT 9.) Death's Shadow 10.) Steel Stompy 11.) U/B Control/Reanimator 12.) Death's Shadow 13.) Death's Shadow 14.) Death's Shadow 15.) Lands 16.) Turbo Depths

Scott

08-21-2018, 09:23 PM

Japan dump:

August 11, レガシー東海王決定戦, 67 players (http://www.hareruyamtg.com/en/k/kD01254N/): 1.) Death's Shadow 2.) U/W Stoneblade 3.) RUG Delver 4.) Eldrazi 5.) U/R Delver 6.) Grixis Control 7.) Grixis Control 8.) Elves

August 16, 夏休みレガシー杯, 58 players (http://www.hareruyamtg.com/en/k/kD13078W/): 1.) Dark Depths 2.) Grixis Control 3.) Colorless 12-Post 4.) Miracles 5.) Aggro Loam 6.) Mono B Reanimator 7.) B/R Reanimator 8.) Grixis Control

August 17, レガシー神トライアル, 51 players (http://www.hareruyamtg.com/en/k/kD13108W/): 1.) Grixis Control 2.) Grixis Delver 3.) Grixis Delver 4.) Grixis Delver 5.) Death's Shadow 6.) Death's Shadow 7.) Steel Stompy 8.) Death's Shadow

MorphBerlin

08-22-2018, 05:06 AM

Storm is dead.

Honestly Storm will never be dead even if positioned badly in the meta temporarily.

All those die hard storm grinders will never stop :D

Scott

08-22-2018, 07:52 PM

Two more, OP updated:

August 18-19, Eternal Weekend Asia 2018, 626 players (https://mtg-jp.com/coverage/ewa18/decklist/0030997/): 1.) ANT 2.) Grixis Delver 3.) Lands 4.) Death's Shadow 5.) U/R Delver 6.) Infect 7.) OmniTell 8.) Miracles

August 19, The Last Sun 2018予選 - 晴れる屋トーナメントセンター#3, 68 players (http://www.hareruyamtg.com/en/k/kD9537K/): 1.) Grixis Delver 2.) U/R Delver 3.) Reanimator 4.) Grixis Control 5.) Death's Shadow 6.) RUG Delver 7.) OmniTell 8.) B/R Reanimator

ahg113

08-22-2018, 10:51 PM

What deck was supposed to be neutered with the DRS ban? Or conversely, given room to breath?

l33twash0r

08-23-2018, 01:31 AM

What deck was supposed to be neutered with the DRS ban? Or conversely, given room to breath?

Well Leovold disappeared, but grixis is still good it seems.

MorphBerlin

08-24-2018, 02:24 AM

Well Leovold disappeared, but grixis is still good it seems.

Agreed, grixis control lost Leovold, a mana dork and the ability to handle enchantments. It's still doing it's thing just weaker.

Delver has not yet settled imo. It's not clear which version is the best atm (rug, grixis, UB shadow)

ESG

08-25-2018, 12:47 AM

Agreed, grixis control lost Leovold, a mana dork and the ability to handle enchantments. It's still doing it's thing just weaker.

Grixis Control didn't play Leovold. Czech Pile did. Grixis Control was three colors, and Czech was four colors.

Poron

08-25-2018, 04:03 AM

What deck was supposed to be neutered with the DRS ban? Or conversely, given room to breath?

Reanimator. But it will never make sense in a world with SnT and Artisan.

They both blank Containment Priest and Surgical Extraction. Boseiju blanks every possible counter and you have the color to dig the deck enough to find everything needed.

IMHO it should be the next ban.

Zulabnar

08-25-2018, 04:12 AM

Green color seems definitively dead.

R.i.p

imreal66

08-25-2018, 11:23 AM

This thread is awesome! Super useful!
Are you going to add the extra eternal weekend results? 9-32 since it was so big

Scott

08-25-2018, 01:01 PM

This thread is awesome! Super useful!
Are you going to add the extra eternal weekend results? 9-32 since it was so big

Thanks! I'm actually just about to update it, with a bonus breakdown that I think is interesting.

Scott

08-25-2018, 01:47 PM

I'll cap it with 6 weeks+ of post-ban results. I've also cut the rankings in half, to show the first 3 weeks+ of results (weekends of July 14, 21, 28 + two earlier tourneys), and the most recent, second 3 weeks of results (weekends of August 4, 11, 18).

Also added:

August 11, LCL August 2018, 46 players (http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=28311): 1.) RUG Delver 2.) BUG Delver 3.) Steel Stompy 4.) Grixis Control 5.) ANT 6.) Sneak & Show 7.) Goblins 8.) Grixis Control

August 18-19, Eternal Weekend Asia 2018, 626 players (https://mtg.bigweb.co.jp/article/ewasia2018-legacydeck_9-32): 9.) Grixis Control 10.) Bomberman 11.) Miracles 12.) U/R Delver 13.) RUG Delver 14.) Steel Stompy 15.) U/R OmniTell 16.) ANT 17.) Grixis Control 18.) OmniTell 19.) Eldrazi & Taxes 20.) Death's Shadow 21.) Death & Taxes 22.) Grixis Control 23.) Death's Shadow 24.) Eldrazi 25.) GWb Maverick 26.) Grixis Delver 27.) U/R Delver 28.) Lands 29.) Death's Shadow 30.) Grixis Control 31.) Turbo Depths 32.) Grixis Delver

In total, the first 6 weeks+ post-ban:

Grixis Control: 331 points
Miracles: 300
Death & Taxes: 228
Sneak & Show: 216
UWx Stoneblade: 204
Death's Shadow: 181
Grixis Delver: 165
RUG Delver: 151
Lands: 150
OmniTell: 116
Eldrazi: 110
ANT: 109
Dark Depths: 105
U/R Delver: 104
Steel Stompy: 89
Goblins: 78
B/R Reanimator: 76
12-Post: 69
Dragon Stompy: 62
Big Eldrazi: 60
TES: 58
Aggro Loam: 57
Elves: 50
Infect: 47
Reanimator: 40
Merfolk: 37
Pox: 35
Burn: 34
Maverick: 30
UWx Helm: 26
Bomberman: 24
BUG Delver: 24
Zombardment: 21
Dredge: 20
Eldrazi & Taxes: 18
Tezzeret Control: 17
Aluren: 16
UWR Delver: 16
Tin Fins: 15
Food Chain: 14
Jund: 14
UWx Landstill: 14
BUG Control: 9
Mono Red Sneak Attack: 9
Reanimator Depths: 9
U/B Helm Combo: 9
Humans: 8
B/W Deadguy/D&T: 7
Czech Pile: 7
Faeries: 7
Imperial Painter: 7
Lands/Storm Combo: 7
Punishing Dack: 7
Shardless BUG: 7
Soldier Stompy: 7
U/B Control/Reanimator: 7
U/W Miracles/Stoneblade: 7
BUG Lands: 6
High Tide: 6
Mono B Reanimator: 6
RUG Cascade: 6
Slivers: 6
Tempo Zoo: 6

The first 3 weeks+ post-ban:

Miracles: 198 points
Sneak & Show: 157
UWx Stoneblade: 135
Grixis Control: 134
Death & Taxes: 125
RUG Delver: 101
Eldrazi: 70
ANT: 66
Lands: 66
OmniTell: 64
Goblins: 58
Grixis Delver: 53
Dragon Stompy: 49
Dark Depths: 48
Big Eldrazi: 46
B/R Reanimator: 43
Death's Shadow: 39
Steel Stompy: 38
Aggro Loam: 36
Elves: 36
TES: 36
U/R Delver: 35
12-Post: 32
Infect: 30
Merfolk: 22
Dredge: 20
Maverick: 20
Pox: 20
UWx Helm: 19
Aluren: 16
UWR Delver: 16
Reanimator: 15
Bomberman: 14
Zombardment: 14
Tezzeret Control: 11
BUG Delver: 10
BUG Control: 9
Mono Red Sneak Attack: 9
Reanimator Depths: 9
U/B Helm Combo: 9
Eldrazi & Taxes: 8
Humans: 8
UWx Landstill: 8
B/W Deadguy/D&T: 7
Czech Pile: 7
Food Chain: 7
Imperial Painter: 7
Lands/Storm Combo: 7
Punishing Dack: 7
Shardless BUG: 7
Soldier Stompy: 7
U/W Miracles/Stoneblade: 7
BUG Lands: 6
Burn: 6
High Tide: 6
Jund: 6
RUG Cascade: 6
Tempo Zoo: 6

The second 3 weeks post-ban:

Grixis Control: 197 points
Death’s Shadow: 142
Grixis Delver: 112
Death & Taxes: 103
Miracles: 102
Lands: 84
U/R Delver: 69
UWx Stoneblade: 69
Sneak & Show: 59
Dark Depths: 57
OmniTell: 52
Steel Stompy: 51
RUG Delver: 50
ANT: 43
Eldrazi: 40
12-Post: 37
B/R Reanimator: 33
Burn: 28
Reanimator: 25
TES: 22
Aggro Loam: 21
Goblins: 20
Infect: 17
Merfolk: 15
Pox: 15
Tin Fins: 15
Big Eldrazi: 14
BUG Delver: 14
Elves: 14
Dragon Stompy: 13
Bomberman: 10
Eldrazi & Taxes: 10
Maverick: 10
Jund: 8
Czech Pile: 7
Faeries: 7
Food Chain: 7
U/B Control/Reanimator: 7
UWx Helm: 7
Zombardment: 7
Mono B Reanimator: 6
Slivers: 6
Tezzeret Control: 6
UWx Landstill: 6

Poron

08-25-2018, 02:19 PM

Told you. Miracle is dropping fast and that will continue

imreal66

08-25-2018, 02:46 PM

This was awesome!!! Great information regarding the format.

Lava Snacks

08-26-2018, 04:40 PM

Dice_Box

08-26-2018, 05:28 PM

Pinned. I will remove the pin once the thread is no longer being updated.

MorphBerlin

08-27-2018, 01:08 AM

Grixis Control didn't play Leovold. Czech Pile did. Grixis Control was three colors, and Czech was four colors.

Nice smart asss comment, did you feel good after that?

But actually it only shows that you did not get the point and your lack of understanding of deck strategies and their context in the grand scheme of the legacy metagame.

Yeah obviously I meant C.Pile that played Leovold, with DRS it was the defacto best Hymn/Snap/K.Command deck. Grixis Control existed back than but was just a worse version of that deck (not talking about grixis pyro here since you are splitting hair over terminology, as that decks aim was to exploit Y.Pyro/Probe/Therapy).

So I was obviously referring to the current version of G.Control, which is just the no-drs-adapted version of C.Pile. Thus i shortcurt to: "(current) Grixis Control lost leovold" instead of "C.Pile lost Levold and in consequence dropped green so its now grixis control".:rolleyes:

ESG

08-27-2018, 02:59 AM

Nice smart asss comment, did you feel good after that?

But actually it only shows that you did not get the point and your lack of understanding of deck strategies and their context in the grand scheme of the legacy metagame.

Yeah obviously I meant C.Pile that played Leovold, with DRS it was the defacto best Hymn/Snap/K.Command deck. Grixis Control existed back than but was just a worse version of that deck (not talking about grixis pyro here since you are splitting hair over terminology, as that decks aim was to exploit Y.Pyro/Probe/Therapy).

So I was obviously referring to the current version of G.Control, which is just the no-drs-adapted version of C.Pile. Thus i shortcurt to: "(current) Grixis Control lost leovold" instead of "C.Pile lost Levold and in consequence dropped green so its no grixis control".:rolleyes:

Lots of people use this forum, including people new to the format. There isn't enough care taken with deck identification these days, so we get things like TES labeled ANT and 4c Loam labeled Punishing Abzan. I'd rather we be pedantic but correct with names than lazy and incorrect.

Rebelwithapen216

08-27-2018, 10:52 AM

What's going on with the pointy ears? In the last three weeks, they have fewer points than Pox; it's been a pretty big drop-off. I mean, Elves was a good deck before DRS. Did the banning really hurt them that much?

Looking at the top-performing decks right now, it doesn't look that hostile, even if there's a lot of stuff like Miracles and Show & Tell, not that I'm an Elves expert. Bad combo match ups like Storm and Reanimator aren't super common. Plenty of good match ups like Death & Taxes and Grixis Delver. I'm curious if people aren't playing it (and why, and it's warranted), or if people are playing it but losing (and why). I actually have no idea how Elves does against the new bois Grixis Control and Death's Shadow.

Elves has lost its ability to win outside of combat, which is huge against blue fair and control decks. The deck is much more dependent on winning via one of its combos now, which has usually been the less reliable method for pulling off wins against grindy blue decks (mostly referring to Natural Order). On top of that the deck also lost all the incidental benefits that deathrite provided in the form of graveyard hard and stabilizing by eating creatures, so I would argue that losing deathrite has hurt elves far more than anticipated. Elves still has positive match ups against non-blue midrange decks and most grindy blue decks, but the deck's threat density has been crippled significantly. It's no longer able to pivot as easily into a midrange role when necessary, and overall the amount of threatening plays that the deck used to have access to is reduced.

Combo decks are still bad match ups, -1-1 hate is far more effective now, the graveyard is harder to interact with, and llanowar elves is so much worse than deathrite late in the game that it's not even close to a reasonable replacement in terms of power level. I still love playing the deck and I think it can do reasonably well in a big tournament in the hands of a skilled player, but the deck lost something irreplaceable that has damaged its overall viability.

Poron

08-27-2018, 10:52 AM

Zulabnar

08-27-2018, 12:32 PM

Well boarders have never been so undefined.

The real identifying point of Aggro is Stifle, Wasteland and Daze? Is Elves aggro or combo?

Will Miracle ever get a decent finisher or do we still have to experiment desperate things like TNN and Avacyn?

Stifle + Daze + Wasteland are TEMPO not aggro. Eldrazi is Aggro, Maverick is aggro, Steel Stompy is aggro.

Elves is now more or less a combo that doesn't work well

Miracle with TNN remembers me old 2000 Keeper with Morphling

Lord_Mcdonalds

08-27-2018, 01:14 PM

"Maverick is an aggro deck"

It's an aggro deck in the same way Stoneblade is TNN tribal.

CptHaddock

08-27-2018, 01:59 PM

"Maverick is an aggro deck"

It's an aggro deck in the same way Stoneblade is TNN tribal.

Miracles is an aggro deck.
Lands is an aggro deck.
Turbo Depths is an aggro deck.
Skill and Show is an aggro deck.
Delver is a control deck.

Megadeus

08-27-2018, 02:46 PM

Well boarders have never been so undefined.

The real identifying point of Aggro is Stifle, Wasteland and Daze? Is Elves aggro or combo?

Will Miracle ever get a decent finisher or do we still have to experiment desperate things like TNN and Avacyn?

Do Mentor and Entreat not count as finishers? I'm not really sure what more you could want between Mentor Entreat and Jace.

ReAnimator

08-27-2018, 03:26 PM

Do Mentor and Entreat not count as finishers? I'm not really sure what more you could want between Mentor Entreat and Jace.

There was always a noisy but small contingent of Miracles players that even durning half a decade of dominance complained about how bad they had it at all times. It defy's all logic.

Entreat would be better if the non miracle side was a swords to plowshares or a negate.
Mentor would be more helpful if it had a ETB effect.
Jace could really close out games better if his ultimate just wasn't so high.
:rolleyes:

Oh poor poor miracles players so hard done by.

Lord_Mcdonalds

08-27-2018, 03:54 PM

If only they had U2: win the game.

If only.

Lava Snacks

08-27-2018, 04:34 PM

If only they had U2: win the game.

If only.

I'm damning you to burn in hell when a Miracles player Show and Tells an Emrakul in against me because you inspired some idiot to make a Miracles & Tell abomination.

Zulabnar

08-27-2018, 04:41 PM

"Maverick is an aggro deck"

It's an aggro deck in the same way Stoneblade is TNN tribal.

So for You a deck that is relying on creature, that win only by attack phase, has no counter, has no tempo effect except wasteland, has no combo card, has no prison card, which kind of deck is?

AfroSmile

08-27-2018, 04:46 PM

I'm damning you to burn in hell when a Miracles player Show and Tells an Emrakul in against me because you inspired some idiot to make a Miracles & Tell abomination.

It existed (https://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=13378&d=278442&f=LE) before the top ban. xD

l33twash0r

08-27-2018, 04:57 PM

It existed (https://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=13378&d=278442&f=LE) before the top ban. xD

QUADLAZER Miracles!

Lava Snacks

08-27-2018, 05:47 PM

It existed (https://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=13378&d=278442&f=LE) before the top ban. xD

https://media.giphy.com/media/vcAPL92UxSTqJ5jmZK/giphy.gif

Megadeus

08-27-2018, 07:00 PM

I'm damning you to burn in hell when a Miracles player Show and Tells an Emrakul in against me because you inspired some idiot to make a Miracles & Tell abomination.

Greg Mitchell was all about Miracles of Science. I personally have toyed with the idea of main board Omnishow plan with sideboard into miracles. It does mean you have to run some weird stuff like Snapcaster main in your omni deck though

Lord_Mcdonalds

08-27-2018, 07:23 PM

So for You a deck that is relying on creature, that win only by attack phase, has no counter, has no tempo effect except wasteland, has no combo card, has no prison card, which kind of deck is?

A midrange deck (http://bfy.tw/JbeY)

Scott

08-27-2018, 08:27 PM

Two tournaments added, OP totals updated, with new 3 week timespan also begun:

August 26, MTGO Challenge, 69 players (https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/mtgo-standings/legacy-challenge-2018-08-27): 1.) ANT 2.) Merfolk 3.) Grixis Control 4.) Big Eldrazi 5.) Death's Shadow 6.) Death & Taxes 7.) Death's Shadow 8.) UWR Delver 9.) Big Eldrazi 10.) Lands 11.) Grixis Landstill 12.) Lands 13.) Sneak & Show 14.) Grixis Delver 15.) Turbo Depths 16.) Turbo Depths

August 26, Channel Fireball Legacy 2K @ Channel Fireball, 82 players (https://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=19929&f=LE): 1.) Merfolk 2.) ANT 3.) Death's Shadow 4.) Sneak & Show 5.) Death's Shadow 6.) Goblins 7.) Grixis Control 8.) Maverick

JackaBo

08-28-2018, 02:18 AM

Merfork confirmed T1

Poron

08-28-2018, 03:40 AM

Yup. That’s due to 4 uncounterable TNN and 4 Phantasmal Image. I didn’t know you could get a perfect TNN out of an Image.

That’s super good.

Poron

08-28-2018, 09:35 AM

If only they had U2: win the game.

If only.

Where is the sense in control tools when you can pack counters and just win straight?

Scott

08-28-2018, 05:10 PM

Two tournaments added, OP updated:

August 25, 汚染された三角州》[EXP]争奪レガシー杯, 50 players (http://www.hareruyamtg.com/en/k/kD13188W/): 1.) Infect 2.) Grixis Control 3.) Death's Shadow 4.) TES 5.) Miracles 6.) Reanimator 7.) Lands 8.) Grixis Delver

August 26, Arizona Eternal Magic Champs @ Phoenix, AZ, 35 players (http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=19941&f=LE): 1.) U/R Delver 2.) Burn 3.) Colorless 12-Post 4.) Aggro Loam 5.) Aggro Loam 6.) Grixis Control 7.) RUG Delver 8.) Lands

Scott

08-30-2018, 04:51 PM

Two tournaments added, OP updated:

August 19, CLC - Etapa 7 - Floripa @ Palhoça, 44 players (http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=19946&f=LE): 1.) Grixis Control 2.) Grixis Delver 3.) Eldrazi 4.) Grixis Delver 5.) Burn 6.) Death & Taxes 7.) Naya Lumberjack 8.) OmniTell

August 26, レガシー神トライアル, 60 players (http://www.hareruyamtg.com/en/k/kD13237W/): 1.) B/R Reanimator 2.) U/R OmniTell 3.) U/R Delver 4.) OmniTell 5.) Miracles 6.) Miracles 7.) Steel Stompy 8.) Death & Taxes

Hanni

08-31-2018, 09:25 PM

Lord_Mcdonalds

08-31-2018, 10:58 PM

Huh?

The long and short of it is that a certain gentlemen, named Solnox, is a lumberjack and he is perfectly acceptable.

ESG

09-01-2018, 12:24 AM

What's going on with the pointy ears? In the last three weeks, they have fewer points than Pox; it's been a pretty big drop-off. I mean, Elves was a good deck before DRS. Did the banning really hurt them that much?

Looking at the top-performing decks right now, it doesn't look that hostile, even if there's a lot of stuff like Miracles and Show & Tell, not that I'm an Elves expert. Bad combo match ups like Storm and Reanimator aren't super common. Plenty of good match ups like Death & Taxes and Grixis Delver. I'm curious if people aren't playing it (and why, and it's warranted), or if people are playing it but losing (and why). I actually have no idea how Elves does against the new bois Grixis Control and Death's Shadow.

Miracles and Sneak & Show are unfavorable matchups, and both of those are too prevalent and well-positioned for Elves to be a great choice for now. Lands isn't favorable either. Each of these problems requires a different slant on the deck, and you can't skew a deck in too many directions trying to metagame for wildly different strategies. I could tune Elves to be better against Miracles, but those changes wouldn't improve the Sneak & Show matchup. Elves also takes some splash damage in that Containment Priest is more common due to Sneak & Show's numbers and Grafdigger's Cage is more common due to Deathrite's absence. People run more graveyard hate now, and Cage happens to hit Elves as a bonus. People still play the deck, but it hasn't been performing well locally.

Megadeus

09-01-2018, 12:47 AM

Huh?

A sort of Aggro Loam featuring Titania and Lumberjack provides a pretty nutty mana boost. Turn 2 5 mana into Titania is a possibility

Fox

09-01-2018, 09:18 PM

Told you. Miracle is dropping fast and that will continue

So I'm going to give you a pass on miracles putting 2 copies in the top 8 of Richmond GP, not splitting position 1&2 because they had to face-off in the semi-finals. Let's define legacy in very clear terms*:

It's a two Hymn format. You have actual Hymn and blue-Hymn (Counterbalance). So as long as Grixis Tap-out Jammy Jams is doing its thing, the only cards that can really stop it have to be card type land (dubious b/c of Blood Moon), enchantment, or non-blue PW. The reason for this is any strategy that is going to win by having cards in hand loses by default to Hymn; i.e. you have to play to the board. So when you say miracles is on the way out, you really need to display how Grixis is on the way out.

The best fix for this is ban both Hymns, unban SDT and DRS. They are that good, and they aren't going away on their own. Keep expecting to see Grixis and miracles floating around the very top of tier one alongside positionally strong mana denial strats (R/G, Thresh, DnT**). Pay more attention to the inevitable decline in UW/x Blade as they realize they just win more games by playing either miracles or Grixis.

*this is secondary analysis to legacy just being cantrip cartel/FoW vs Cavern/Vial vs Loam/Mox vs Sol Land/Chalice
**positionally strong vs the leftover field, and with at least one abysmal matchup vs either miracles or Grixis.

Lord_Mcdonalds

09-01-2018, 10:51 PM

That may be the hottest MTG take I have ever seen.

Like my laptop actually overheated when I first scrolled over that.

thecrav

09-01-2018, 10:56 PM

4 Counterbalance in the top 8.
8 Delvers
22 Ponder
24 Brainstorm

Counterbalance is breaking the format.

Fuck, I wish I could be drunk enough to think that.

Scott

09-02-2018, 12:48 AM

OP updated

August 26, ネメシスレガシー - 晴れる屋大阪店, 39 players (http://www.hareruyamtg.com/en/k/kD00615O/): 1.) Grixis Control 2.) Sneak & Show 3.) Goblins 4.) Burn 5.) ANT 6.) Mono U Control/Dark Depths 7.) U/R OmniTell 8.) ANT

August 31-September 1, Grand Prix Richmond, 842 players (http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=28427): 1.) Miracles 2.) Lands 3.) Miracles 4.) Death's Shadow 5.) RUG Delver 6.) U/W Stoneblade 7.) Eldrazi 8.) Grixis Control 9.) Grixis Control 10.) U/W Stoneblade/Delver 11.) Grixis Delver 12.) Eldrazi 13.) Grixis Control 14.) RUG Delver 15.) Death's Shadow 16.) Grixis Delver

I wasn't sure whether to put Turtenwald's U/W Stoneblade/Delver as UWx Stoneblade or UWR Delver so I put it as a separate thing. If ppl disagree with that, lemme know.

talpa

09-02-2018, 05:01 AM

Let's define legacy in very clear terms*:
It's a two Hymn format. You have actual Hymn and blue-Hymn (Counterbalance). (...)
*this is secondary analysis to legacy just being cantrip cartel/FoW vs Cavern/Vial vs Loam/Mox vs Sol Land/Chalice

4 Counterbalance in the top 8.
8 Delvers
22 Ponder
24 Brainstorm
Counterbalance is breaking the format.
Fuck, I wish I could be drunk enough to think that.

Funny, I thought that

We have a thread for this talk, it ain't in here.

Lava Snacks

09-02-2018, 04:31 PM

Scott

09-02-2018, 07:22 PM

OP updated

August 26, London Legacy Monthly Aug 2018 @ London, 39 players (http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=19961&f=LE): 1.) Sapphire Control 2.) Punishing Maverick 3.) Goblins 4.) Death's Shadow 5.) Tin Fins Depths 6.) OmniTell w/ Sneak 7.) Death's Shadow 8.) Death's Shadow

August 30, LML Sétima Etapa @ UG Cardshop, 37 players (http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=19962&f=LE): 1.) OmniTell 2.) Esperblade 3.) Burn 4.) U/W Stoneblade 5.) B/R Reanimator 6.) Death & Taxes 7.) Merfolk 8.) RUG Delver

ESG

09-02-2018, 09:32 PM

It's a two Hymn format. You have actual Hymn and blue-Hymn (Counterbalance).

I'm tempted to get some Counterbalances altered now. Not that I'd ever play them.

Scott

09-03-2018, 01:23 PM

OP updated:

September 2, MTGO Challenge, 80 players (https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/mtgo-standings/legacy-challenge-2018-09-03): 1.) Big Eldrazi 2.) ANT 3.) Miracles 4.) Grixis Control 5.) Elves 6.) Lands 7.) Grixis Control 8.) BUG Control 9.) BUG Loam 10.) Elves 11.) Miracles 12.) Grixis Control 13.) Lands 14.) Turbo Depths 15.) Sneak & Show 16.) Lands

Scott

09-04-2018, 04:57 PM

OP updated:

September 1, Known Magicians Clan - 99th, 83 players (http://www.hareruyamtg.com/en/k/kD54132S/): 1.) Maverick 2.) Lands 3.) Grixis Control 4.) Death & Taxes 5.) U/W Stoneblade 6.) Grixis Control 7.) ANT 8.) ANT

September 2, 晴れる屋レガシー杯クラシック, 66 players (http://www.hareruyamtg.com/en/k/kD13311W/): 1.) Infect 2.) U/R Delver 3.) Sneak & Show 4.) Dark Depths 5.) Sneak & Show 6.) U/R Delver 7.) Miracles 8.) RUG Delver

Whitefaces

09-05-2018, 05:23 AM

Just want to say thanks for compiling all of this, it's really useful.

Elfkid

09-05-2018, 07:54 AM

Just want to say thanks for compiling all of this, it's really useful.

Yeah, same here. Thanks!:smile::smile:

MorphBerlin

09-06-2018, 04:07 AM

So can we already conclude, that DRS-ban actually hurt non-blue creature decks the most because they lost their best card while Blue Midrange/Tempo only lost their best creature (3rd best spell maybe?).

I am glad the ban-mob had it right again...

twndomn

09-06-2018, 04:39 AM

mistercakes

09-06-2018, 04:44 AM

Scott

09-06-2018, 09:20 PM

Just want to say thanks for compiling all of this, it's really useful.

Yeah, same here. Thanks!:smile::smile:

I'm really glad it's been useful to people :smile:

OP updated (both the total, and the most recent block of time, as usual):

August 26, 4° Liga Paulista @ Epic Game (São Paulo, Brazil), 50 players (http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=20013&f=LE): 1.) Esperblade 2.) BUG Control 3.) Sneak & Show 4.) Burn 5.) Elves 6.) Grixis Control 7.) Ooze Reanimator 8.) U/W Landstill

September 2, Swiss Magic Masters 2018 @ Interlaken, 80 players (http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=20014&f=LE): 1.) Infect 2.) Death's Shadow 3.) ANT 4.) Miracles 5.) Dragon Stompy 6.) Enchantress 7.) Dark Depths 8.) Death's Shadow

Scott

09-08-2018, 01:12 AM

OP updated:

August 25, Nerd Rage Gaming Championship Trial, 90+ players (http://nerdragegaming.wpengine.com/decklists-archive/legacy-nrg-ct-aug-2018/): 1.) Grixis Control 2.) Eldrazi 3.) Death & Taxes 4.) Enchantress 5.) ANT 6.) Grixis Control 7.) Grixis Delver 8.) B/R Reanimator

Scott

09-10-2018, 01:57 PM

Total and recent rankings in OP updated

September 9, MKM Series Paris 2018 - Legacy Main Event, 194 players (http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=28498): 1.) Miracles 2.) Death & Taxes 3.) U/R Delver 4.) U/B OmniTell 5.) Grixis Control 6.) Maverick 7.) Grixis Delver 8.) Grixis Control

September 9, MTGO Challenge, 82 players (https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/mtgo-standings/legacy-challenge-2018-09-10): 1.) Death's Shadow 2.) Grixis Delver 3.) Grixis Control 4.) B/R Reanimator 5.) ANT 6.) Grixis Delver 7.) Dredge 8.) Elves 9.) Death & Taxes 10.) Miracles 11.) Big Eldrazi 12.) Naya Lumberjack 13.) Dredge 14.) Lands 15.) Aggro Loam 16.) Grixis Control

September 9, Legacy Open @ Time Vault Games, 47 players (http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=20031&f=LE): 1.) Death's Shadow 2.) ANT 3.) Grixis Control 4.) Grixis Control 5.) Death & Taxes 6.) Grixis Control 7.) Grixis Delver 8.) Merfolk

09-10-2018, 02:36 PM

4.) U/B OmniTell

A thing, or proof that Lejay could probably Top 8 with a ham sandwich? :cool: (Or maybe both?)

12.) Naya Lumberjack

Be still my beating heart!

Scott

09-11-2018, 08:44 PM

Total and recent rankings in OP updated

September 1, 《ライオンの瞳のダイアモンド/Lion's Eye Diamond》争奪レガシー杯, 46 players (http://www.hareruyamtg.com/en/k/k110525/): 1.) Grixis Control 2.) Miracles 3.) Grixis Control 4.) Burn 5.) Grixis Control 6.) B/R Storm 7.) Grixis Delver 8.) ?

September 8, Preservation Series 1K @ Mox Boarding House, 56 players (http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=20048&f=LE): 1.) U/W Stoneblade 2.) U/B Ninjas 3.) Miracles 4.) Death's Shadow 5.) U/G 12-Post 6.) Miracles 7.) Mono B Reanimator 8.) Turbo Depths

September 8, ネームドトーナメントフジタ・レガシー杯, 56 players (http://www.hareruyamtg.com/en/k/k127705/): 1.) Dark Depths 2.) U/R Delver 3.) Grixis Delver 4.) U/R Delver 5.) Death & Taxes 6.) Death & Taxes 7.) Death's Shadow 8.) ?

September 9, レガシー神トライアル, 78 players (http://www.hareruyamtg.com/en/k/k127703/): 1.) OmniTell 2.) ANT 3.) Death & Taxes 4.) Grixis Delver 5.) Grixis Control 6.) Lands 7.) U/R OmniTell 8.) Miracles

Scott

09-14-2018, 02:15 PM

Total and recent rankings in OP updated

September 1, Community Pub Legacy @ Sydney, 36 players (https://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=20058&f=LE): 1.) Goblins 2.) Tezzeret Control 3.) Lands 4.) RUG Delver

September 2, 4Seasons Summer 2018, 141 players (http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=28502): 1.) Lands 2.) Death's Shadow 3.) Dredge 4.) Dark Depths 5.) Death & Taxes 6.) Maverick 7.) Death's Shadow 8.) Aluren 9.) Lands 10.) Death's Shadow 11.) Death & Taxes 12.) OmniTell 13.) Miracles 14.) Dredge 15.) Eldrazi 16.) Elves

taconaut

09-14-2018, 02:43 PM

i'm quite pleased w/ the bannings. unfortunately the best deck against the cantrip decks is boring. (eldrazi).

probe was a nice change for the format. DRS will take more time to flesh it out, but i think the format has generally opened up.

I feel that this feeling is largely illusory. From the OP, italicized where I feel an argument could be made for novelty:

Grixis Control: 563 points
Miracles: 436
Death's Shadow: 341
Death & Taxes: 328
Grixis Delver: 280
Sneak & Show: 268
Lands: 262
UWx Stoneblade: 259
RUG Delver: 207
ANT: 205

Is that really that much different?

I get that I'm basically the only person who liked probe, but I don't feel like these bannings were a huge shakeup, other than getting rid of the green in the formerly 4-color control decks. Plus, Sneak and Show is super boring. RUG is sweet, and I know people who wish it were 2013 again might be excited to play stoneblade again, but Miracles, DNT, Lands, and Grixis are as good as ever.

Zulabnar

09-16-2018, 04:54 AM

Grixis Control: 563 points
Miracles: 436
Death's Shadow: 341
Death & Taxes: 328
Grixis Delver: 280
Sneak & Show: 268
Lands: 262
UWx Stoneblade: 259
RUG Delver: 207
ANT: 205

Is that really that much different?

no it isn't

Miracle and Grixis Control are pretty same gameplan same strategies, different cards

Grixis Delver Rug Delver and Death's Shadow has a lot of cards frome the control side but different strategy.

So the ban hits the green and nothing else.

Poron

09-16-2018, 05:38 AM

And combo. Storm and Sneak Show, without Probe, suffer.

Dice_Box

09-16-2018, 06:26 AM

DTB update done. Shadow is really killing it in the new meta.

Scott

09-18-2018, 08:00 PM

I'm gonna end this at 9+ weeks in post-ban results in total, separated cleanly in three periods of three weeks each (this past weekend's results, the 10th weekend, are not included).

Over that time, 73 different archetypes placed in all tournaments of at least 6 rounds.

For those interested in which decks have been rising and falling in the meta since the ban, this table lists the 30 decks (any with at least 35 total points) ranked by total points since the ban. The first column of numbers is the deck's rank in the first three week block; the second column is the deck's rank in the second three week block; the third column is the deck's rank in the third three week block.

https://i.imgur.com/iSxuhKT.png

JackaBo

09-24-2018, 09:04 AM

I would like to share some of my thoughts regarding the metagame development past the DRS/GitProbe ban.

First off, in the turbulence of the new metagame shaping out combo decks emerged praying on decks that weren't ready for them.
The premier deck of the turbulent period was the show and tell deck, a consistent combo machine that will make you look silly if you are not prepared. Other combo decks such as ANT also had pretty good showings as reported by stalwart storm pilots in the ANT page at the source, in discord chats and in the Facebook Group. That deck never really pushed the numbers in big tournaments mostly because it's a good choice of a deck only if you already are proficent with it thus never gained traction, I believe. My experience was that the power level of the deck severly decreased without probe but more experienced players disgress.

Canadian and reanimator, the two deck which (by some) were predicted to be winners post ban, never really made it. Reanimator, probably because it's better positioned the worse it's precieved - and if people think reanimator will be good, it will fail. Canadian because it's just too anemic with pushes strixes anglers edicts and basic lands. Canadian is almost like a combo deck where your hand have to align with the opponent hand for you to win otherwice you happened to be tapped out when you needed to stifle the fetch and snare that strix and then you lost.

From the chaos emerged two deck that consistently can beat up on the turn 2-3 combo decks, a new delver iteration with Deaths shadow and the good old fun police of Death and taxes. When shadow emerged as the best delver deck many of us saw a strong, synergestic, super sleak machine with a high power level. However many also saw the internal flaw with intentionally almost killing yourself. I knew that if people wanted to beat this deck they should be able to, thus it couldnt be on the top forever. Same goes for a deck that can be hated out as easily as DnT.

With Shadow and DnT in the lead it was time for the old top decks to re-emerge: Grixis Control with it's millions of two-for-ones had all the tools to deal with shadows and jittes alike, and miracle with the sweepers readily and lockpieces such as the previously deemed unplayable counterbalance and the new price-spike-favorite back to basics. These decks will stick around I feel because they are good against so many decks.

When control are at the top it's all about who can grind better. And these two decks can grind, right? Well, then you haven't seen 4C Loam in the hands of a skilled pilot. This reminds me almost of the pre-top era when food chain and twelve-post were viable just because they had (sort of) inevitebility against miracle. Where we go from here I have no idea, but eventhough I'm missing both DRS and GitProbe, I'm loving this new metagame with rock, paper, scissor type of dynamics. I've been super off towards food chain for a long time but if clunky decks are not to be punnished by dazes or, even worse, stifles, then maybe it's time to sleeve up that old griffin again.

pettdan

09-27-2018, 02:54 AM

That seemed kind of like how I interpreted it too, Jackabo. I thought I'd post this link to a similar post, and comment, for the online meta:

https://www.reddit.com/r/MTGLegacy/comments/9j4q3l/modo_league_reset_day_some_math_and_meta_ramblings/?utm_source=reddit-android

And thanks again Scott for running this interesting thread!

Zulabnar

10-01-2018, 04:34 AM

Interesting results at Ovino 13
http://www.ovinotournament.com/ovino-13-legacy-main-event/

Aggro Loam over Miracles in final

Scott

10-05-2018, 02:41 PM

And thanks again Scott for running this interesting thread!

You're welcome!

l33twash0r

10-08-2018, 10:34 AM

Finnish legacy tournament with 107 players top 16 lists https://docs.google.com/document/d/1855sWxzweLqyIF6e7Czh0wdktIq8drjZtBgK-SHHh8Q

Captain Hammer

10-11-2018, 11:34 AM

DTB update done. Shadow is really killing it in the new meta.

Eldrazi Post has actually been putting up slightly better numbers than Shadow surprisingly enough. It’s now the 4th most common deck on top 8s

https://www.mtggoldfish.com/metagame/legacy#paper

The old non Cloudpost Eldrazi lists are doing no where near as well but it looks like Eldrazi Post has taken their spot as the aggro deck to beat.

Que

10-11-2018, 11:53 AM

Scott thanks a ton for all the work you've put into tracking results. It is very much appreciated! :cool: