Survival or Hermit Druid?

[kinda]

To be clear the discussion is not to unban either, but if either were legal during a modified ban list legacy event which would be better to run?

Both are 1G costing permanents that likely win if you untap with them.

Hermit Druid dies to swords/bolt/dismember etc. survival doesn't.
Survival allows you to play basics, hermit druid scoops to blood moon.
Hermit druid can't win through leyline/rip while survival can aggro out.

[Lemnear]

To be clear the discussion is not to unban either, but if either were legal during a modified ban list legacy event which would be better to run?

Both are 1G costing permanents that likely win if you untap with them.

Hermit Druid dies to swords/bolt/dismember etc. survival doesn't.
Survival allows you to play basics, hermit druid scoops to blood moon.
Hermit druid can't win through leyline/rip while survival can aggro out.

One is just part of an All-In combo like Oops All Spells, the other is an engine card (with bearable restrictions) which found application in combo and aggro-control decks. Survival is clearly the better card.

The question would have been harder to answer with Frantic Search vs Hermit Druid, i guess

[kinda]

One is just part of an All-In combo like Oops All Spells, the other is an engine card (with bearable restrictions) which found application in combo and aggro-control decks. Survival is clearly the better card.

The question would have been harder to answer with Frantic Search vs Hermit Druid, i guess

I agree but my local legacy community is doing an event with survival unbanned but definitely not druid which I found odd. Was curious what others thought.

[Phoenix Ignition]

No contest. SotF with Hollow One is actually insane in Vintage right now. You lose Moxes' acceleration but the field you're playing against is much weaker in Legacy.

[Tittliewinks22]

No contest. SotF with Hollow One is actually insane in Vintage right now. You lose Moxes' acceleration but the field you're playing against is much weaker in Legacy.

You also lose the redundancy with bazaar of Baghdad.

The survival deck of legacy would be a different beast than the current iterations in vintage. Not a good comparison.

[Matsu]

Why Hermit Druid?
I will put Oath of Druid in the poll instead. Just my opinion.
If you can reanimate GrizzlyBrand or Marit Lage or S&T Emi turn 1. Why not Oath of Druid.
At list it give you time to respond with a AD or disenchant before it triggers (not the case for reanimate/S&T).

I think comparing Survival of the Fittest and Oath of Druid will be more accurate.

Just my 2 cents.

[MorphBerlin]

Why Hermit Druid?
I will put Oath of Druid in the poll instead. Just my opinion.
If you can reanimate GrizzlyBrand or Marit Lage or S&T Emi turn 1. Why not Oath of Druid.
At list it give you time to respond with a AD or disenchant before it triggers (not the case for reanimate/S&T).

I think comparing Survival of the Fittest and Oath of Druid will be more accurate.

Just my 2 cents.

You do understand that all the stuff you Listed is an A+B Combo while Oath is a 1-Card Combo that costs as much as entomb+reanimate and is even 1 mana cheaper than S&T?

[Gheizen64]

Sotf is a good card, druid is broken

[kinda]

Sotf is a good card, druid is broken

How do you figure? The poll is 23 for survival vs 1 for hermit druid.

[morgan_coke]

I think Survival is clearly less broken. With the printing of Lingering Chill and Lotleth Giant, anything you do that fully mills your library is a win right there without the combat step.

While it's less broken, Survival is also the far better card overall, if that makes sense.

[Megadeus]

I think Survival is clearly less broken. With the printing of Lingering Chill and Lotleth Giant, anything you do that fully mills your library is a win right there without the combat step.

While it's less broken, Survival is also the far better card overall, if that makes sense.

Survival is ANT, Hermit Druid is Belcher.

[JackaBo]

Thing is druid is not all that dangerous given that you need to untap with it first. If it milled on ETB it would be more broken.
Being answerable with MD cards like lightningbolt decreases its powerlevel.
Comparing only the activated effect Druid is obviously more broken. I think both are safe for unban but preferably together with DRS.


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[mistercakes]

survival is the more powerful card, but it also opens up the meta to a few more decks. will the better ones be slanted by blue? (yes). it does however give some other decks library manipulation, but with vengevine and hollow one being real things, it's better to keep out of the format. it would be an extremely strong deck and would be nice though to have a midrange deck vs grixis and miracles.

hermit druid is not really a fair card. there's no real drawback to playing with it and it enables a more or less guaranteed win if you untap. i don't see it bringing any value to the format.

[SpatulaOfTheAges]

you guys know that Hermit Druid is just Oops All Spells but you have to pass the turn and it's countered by StP/Lightning Bolt? it's supremely not a broken card.

[Amon Amarth]

Hermit Druid is countered by nearly everything and has real deck building constraints. Survival of the Fittest only requires you to play a lot of creatures. I'm not that worried about either but Survival is harder to hate out and probably a more powerful card overall.

[MorphBerlin]

Hermit Druid is countered by nearly everything and has real deck building constraints. Survival of the Fittest only requires you to play a lot of creatures. I'm not that worried about either but Survival is harder to hate out and probably a more powerful card overall.

Define alot, you need one creature from there you can get the engine going (with squee for example). I think you could easily get away with under 20 creatures if you want to

[mistercakes]

survival is the far better card. it would open up archetypes, although it might be too strong again for the format (barring matchups like S&T)
hermit druid doesn't really does really add anything to the format.

[Amon Amarth]

Define alot, you need one creature from there you can get the engine going (with squee for example). I think you could easily get away with under 20 creatures if you want to


Good point, I always thought 20+ creatures is " a lot". But you're right, cards like Squee changes that up so you might be able to get away with less.

@mistercakes: That is my opinion as well. SotF might be too broken but it does make new archetypes/decks and is an interesting card to build around whereas Hermit Druid dies to every piece of disruption ever and also adds nothing to the format, we already have enough glass cannon decks as is. It's the only card on the Banned List that I don't care if it comes off or stays. It has the same effect.

[kombatkiwi]

you guys know that Hermit Druid is just Oops All Spells but you have to pass the turn and it's countered by StP/Lightning Bolt? it's supremely not a broken card.

Just like the new versions of breakfast with Stoneforge you can build somewhat of a 'real' deck around Hermit Druid, because all it demands of you is some kind of Dread Return kill and no basic lands.
It's never going to be as good of a midrange deck as actual Stoneblade but the whole deck doesn't have to be rituals and lotus petals etc

I agree it would be less relevant than survival but it wouldn't surprise me if a reasonably playable Druid archetype emerged from its (hypothetical) unbanning
Imagine your opponent goes turn 1 Mom and then just kills you on turn 3 (Cavern on Human? Good luck)