Arclight Dega

[maharis]

I really like Arclight Phoenix, but didn't feel like playing it in a blue deck. Here's a deck I just took through a league:

Creatures (12)
3 Young Pyromancer
4 Arclight Phoenix
1 Scourge of Nel Toth
4 Bedlam Reveler

Planeswalkers (1)
1 Liliana, the Last Hope

Spells (27)
4 Cabal Therapy
2 Entomb
4 Faithless Looting
3 Fatal Push
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Thoughtseize
1 Dreadbore
2 Kolaghan's Command
4 Lingering Souls

Enchantments (1)
1 Blood Moon

Lands (19)
1 Arid Mesa
3 Badlands
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Marsh Flats
2 Mountain
1 Plateau
1 Scrubland
3 Swamp

Sideboard (15)
2 Pyroblast
3 Surgical Extraction
2 Bitterblossom
2 Diabolic Edict
2 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Marsh Casualties
1 Null Rod
1 Blood Moon

L Goblins
W Eureka Rector Fit
L Grixis
W Grixis
L Elves

As you can see it's just a variation on the various Faithless/Pyromancer/Reveler decks. Arclight is nice though. The small entomb package is there because 1) Entomb counts as a spell for Arclight if you need it (and you can grab one with it) and 2) gets Therapy and Souls in a pinch and 3) makes Scourge a nice finisher if tokens aren't going to do it. It's bigger than Tombstalker!

I don't think I want to play spot removal side -- gotta find room for those Edicts. And probably will go for Echoing Calm in the side as well, gotta watch out for Leyline of the Void Null Rod is intriguing and I want to test it a bit more. The MB blood moon doesn't seem as great these days, but it's a nice SB card for lands etc. There are so many Last Hopes around that Bitterblossom is probably ot playable, at least as a two of -- will try to find some other way to harass Miracles. (Probably just more Last Hopes of my own)

Other than that, open to suggestions.

[Megadeus]

It might be terrible and too all in, but I really want to like dark ritual into buried alive for 3 Phoenix. I know it's not super constructive to your exact list, but it's a "powerful" thing to think about

[maharis]

Lol I actually thought about that too. I guess you could max unmask for free spell to make 3. And the backup plan could be bloodghast and scourge.

[Zllig]

It might be terrible and too all in, but I really want to like dark ritual into buried alive for 3 Phoenix. I know it's not super constructive to your exact list, but it's a "powerful" thing to think about

Good God, that is so hot. What is the best third spell to do after that?

[Megadeus]

Good God, that is so hot. What is the best third spell to do after that?

Like he said, unmask to clear the way for your buried alive probably. It must certainly would've been probe before. Gut shot isn't the worst card in the world iI guess? Especially in a deck that feels like it would get super hosed by Thalia. Ritual is also nice to cast before a reveler as it basically adds 4 to revelers cost, or allows you to have a lot of mana post reveler to unload what you draw.

[maharis]

I sketched this out yesterday for the Buried Alive idea:

4 Bloodghast
4 Arclight Phoenix
2 Scourge of Nel Toth

4 Dark Ritual
4 Buried Alive
4 Faithless Looting
4 Thoughtseize
4 Unmask
4 Lingering Souls
4 Cabal Therapy

That's 38 cards. Figure 19-20 lands so probably room for a 2-of or a couple fun-ofs. Also may not need 4 of everything that's a 4 of. (Likely that the card Entomb should be in here in some number)

The deck I played is more of a fair deck and this is more of an all in combo type deck. Question is whether or not the payoff is good enough. There's also splash hate from reanimator etc to deal with. Of course, Arclight Phoenix does have an alternate casting cost: Tap 4 lands and attack.

[Megadeus]

I sketched this out yesterday for the Buried Alive idea:

4 Bloodghast
4 Arclight Phoenix
2 Scourge of Nel Toth

4 Dark Ritual
4 Buried Alive
4 Faithless Looting
4 Thoughtseize
4 Unmask
4 Lingering Souls
4 Cabal Therapy

That's 38 cards. Figure 19-20 lands so probably room for a 2-of or a couple fun-ofs. Also may not need 4 of everything that's a 4 of. (Likely that the card Entomb should be in here in some number)

The deck I played is more of a fair deck and this is more of an all in combo type deck. Question is whether or not the payoff is good enough. There's also splash hate from reanimator etc to deal with. Of course, Arclight Phoenix does have an alternate casting cost: Tap 4 lands and attack.
You're right. Sorry to hijack. Your original list seems like it could have potential though in a way Zombardment is decent. Especially in a world of Hymns and shit.

[ReAnimator]

I know a lot of the Mardu lists in modern lean on a couple of Manamorphose, might be reasonable to fit a couple in for getting your spell count up on the crucial turn without using mana.

[maharis]

You're right. Sorry to hijack. Your original list seems like it could have potential though in a way Zombardment is decent. Especially in a world of Hymns and shit.

lol no problem I'm happy to explore any options for this card. My real goal is to stick it to my fellow podcasters who thought I was crazy for wanting to review this card. But I'm pretty sure spell vengevine that flies is good.

This deck seems solid vs. Grixis. I lost the first match I played 2-1 but then 2-0'd immediately after once I figured out the deck a bit. My opponent definitely hymned me and hit Souls-Therapy which was pretty funny.

And honestly, I lost game 3 of the first MU because my opponent played a Last Hope and I drew running Bitterblossoms. Going to have to figure out something for white decks that isn't BB, even though I love it, because last hope is such a banger against it. Lingering Souls is probably enough to beat spot removal.


I know a lot of the Mardu lists in modern lean on a couple of Manamorphose, might be reasonable to fit a couple in for getting your spell count up on the crucial turn without using mana.

Definitely has crossed my mind. Just being a cantrip/redraw is good as well, but it's hard to cut business in this deck and you can't cut lands since it's 2 mana. I will try to find some room to test though. Actually, probably a good card in the all-in version now that I think about it.

Another card I'm curious about now that I don't think MD moon is as good is Punishing Fire. Like I could go down to 1 mountain, cut 1-2 fetches and/or some other card for 3-4 Groves, then change up the removal suite a bit to get PF in. The reach from Bolt is really nice when you're coming in for 6-9 out of nowhere though. Might make us too soft to Wasteland?

[maharis]

OK i gotta get to work but here is the punishing version

4 Cabal Therapy
2 Entomb
4 Faithless Looting
3 Fatal Push
4 Thoughtseize
2 Diabolic Edict
3 Punishing Fire
2 Kolaghan's Command
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
3 Lingering Souls

3 Young Pyromancer
4 Arclight Phoenix
1 Scourge of Nel Toth
4 Bedlam Reveler

3 Badlands
4 Bloodstained Mire
3 Grove of the Burnwillows
4 Marsh Flats
1 Mountain
1 Plateau
1 Scrubland
3 Swamp

SIDEBOARD
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Pithing Needle
2 Pyroblast
3 Surgical Extraction
1 Abrade
2 Echoing Calm
2 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Marsh Casualties
2 Blood Moon

[ReAnimator]

In an all in version Demigod of Revenge might be something, with enough rituals.

Also what is the sideboard plan to beat Surgicals? Might need Silent Gravestone or some specific plan since Surgical is the most played graveyard hate right now.

[Cryoclasm]

Good God, that is so hot. What is the best third spell to do after that?
The answer is "Gitaxian Probe" but as we know it got banned and made Pyromancer (and Phoenix) substantially much worse.

[thqrun]

I really like Arclight Phoenix, but didn't feel like playing it in a blue deck. Here's a deck I just took through a league:

Creatures (12)
3 Young Pyromancer
4 Arclight Phoenix
1 Scourge of Nel Toth
4 Bedlam Reveler

Planeswalkers (1)
1 Liliana, the Last Hope

Spells (27)
4 Cabal Therapy
2 Entomb
4 Faithless Looting
3 Fatal Push
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Thoughtseize
1 Dreadbore
2 Kolaghan's Command
4 Lingering Souls

Enchantments (1)
1 Blood Moon

Lands (19)
1 Arid Mesa
3 Badlands
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Marsh Flats
2 Mountain
1 Plateau
1 Scrubland
3 Swamp

Sideboard (15)
2 Pyroblast
3 Surgical Extraction
2 Bitterblossom
2 Diabolic Edict
2 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Marsh Casualties
1 Null Rod
1 Blood Moon

L Goblins
W Eureka Rector Fit
L Grixis
W Grixis
L Elves

As you can see it's just a variation on the various Faithless/Pyromancer/Reveler decks. Arclight is nice though. The small entomb package is there because 1) Entomb counts as a spell for Arclight if you need it (and you can grab one with it) and 2) gets Therapy and Souls in a pinch and 3) makes Scourge a nice finisher if tokens aren't going to do it. It's bigger than Tombstalker!

I don't think I want to play spot removal side -- gotta find room for those Edicts. And probably will go for Echoing Calm in the side as well, gotta watch out for Leyline of the Void Null Rod is intriguing and I want to test it a bit more. The MB blood moon doesn't seem as great these days, but it's a nice SB card for lands etc. There are so many Last Hopes around that Bitterblossom is probably ot playable, at least as a two of -- will try to find some other way to harass Miracles. (Probably just more Last Hopes of my own)

Other than that, open to suggestions.

List is sweet, just a couple of suggestions. Zealous persecutions seems significantly better than marsh casualties with all the tokens. I'd also run some number of wear//tear in the board. I'd also jam 4 manamorphose in the main to help recur arlight phoenix, the opportunity cost is pretty low imo.

[maharis]

Not having ZP is because it's easy to get wasted off of white in games where you want the -1/-1 effect. (And in the original draft of the deck, there was MD blood moon to cut you off white anyway, which you want against decks where you also want the -1/-1 effect like Delver and some greedier YP/TNN fair decks). Now, I think it's even less dependable because of the groves. But it is one of my favorite cards so it may be worth a shot. Some people have tested Profit/Loss to sort of middle it out (you get the boost if you really need it and can use it, but always have access to instant speed -1/-1 effect)

Manamorphose has to be tested in a new draft. I did a league with the punishing fire version that went like this:

L food chain
L ANT (this was extremely frustrating, I won game 1 with a flurry of discard and then in games 2 and 3 the deck stalled out and my opponent had time to get back into it)
W Miracles (won game 1, game 2 i mulled to 3 and just scooped, then won game 3, beating active Mentor and Counterbalance in both games)
W Grixis Delver
L Grixis Delver (same opponent who restarted league and got revenge)

So another 2-3, but I really do think the deck can be good. Arclight gives it a bit of an unfair aspect that can get you out of some jams. Killing planeswalkers out of nowhere is good, and relevant against Spell Pierces and such. And sometimes you just get a lot of pressure out fast. Punishing Fire did very little. But this deck is goign to burn a lot of tickets before the right build is found. May even use Acorn Harvest (the green lingering souls) and cut the white from a PF version. Ethersworn Canonist hasn't made much of a difference, and can always run Back to Nature over Echoing Calm.

I do want to try the more all-in version, potentially with Demigod because that sounds awesome. Keeping going...

[Megadeus]

HowHow often do you find yourself not being able to trigger the Phoenix? Obviously blue shell cantrips are the best way to chain together a bunch of spells to trigger such things. Any thought to retrace spells? Ravens crime? I guess therapy does well in this role though.

[alderon666]

Lava Dart

You either go all-in or don't go at all. Playing a modern deck in Legacy, with a somewhat underwhelming value creature, seems like a losing proposition.

[maharis]

HowHow often do you find yourself not being able to trigger the Phoenix? Obviously blue shell cantrips are the best way to chain together a bunch of spells to trigger such things. Any thought to retrace spells? Ravens crime? I guess therapy does well in this role though.

Honestly it's been harder to get it into the GY than to chain three spells in a turn. The thing about the blue spells is that unless you play stuff like Careful Study or Chart a Course, they don't actually help you get Phoenix in the GY. Or Thought Scour I guess but that doesn't really give you certainty.

I have thought about loam/crime or similar in that sort of Punishing Fire slot. Another thing I should consider is Collective Brutality which gets them into the GY and then you just need to cast two more spells.

I anticipate burning a lot of tix trying to get this deck to work. Lots of different mixes and testing engines etc.

[alderon666]

Step 1 - Land, Dark Ritual
Step 2 - Buried Alive for 3 Arclight Phoenix
Step 3 - ???
Step 4 - Profit!

[rufus]

Is there a version of this that runs Hollow One and loot effects?

WotC just put too many of the good cards in blue.

[MDHackbert]

Step 1 - Land, Dark Ritual
Step 2 - Buried Alive for 3 Arclight Phoenix
Step 3 - ???
Step 4 - Profit!

Step 0 is Unmask. Now BA is the 3rd spell. Phoenixes will trigger on BoC now.

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[Draggo]

If I look at these lists I feel like you run out of cards really fast. It might be something to add Painful Truths to restock and be able to actually cast 3 spells beyond turn 3 (if you failed the first few turns).
Also free spells like the already mentioned Gut Shot and even Noxious Revival can help ramp out that third spell, where the last one can protect against targeted grave hate or recycle key-cards you need.

Edit:
Partial list for reference (BGr-list):

Combo spells: 24
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Entomb
4 Faithless Looting
4 Dark Ritual
4 Buried Alive
2 Crop Rotation
2 Noxious Revival

Creatures: 11
4 Arclight Phoenix
4 Bloodghast
1 Scourge of Nel Toth
2 Dryad Arbor

Restock:
2/3 Painful Truths

Interactions:
Wasteland
Life from the Loam
Lava Dart

[maharis]

well I pulled off a 4-1 with this build:

Creatures (12)
3 Young Pyromancer
4 Arclight Phoenix
1 Scourge of Nel Toth
4 Bedlam Reveler

Planeswalkers (1)
1 Liliana, the Last Hope

Spells (28)
4 Cabal Therapy
2 Entomb
4 Faithless Looting
2 Fatal Push
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Thoughtseize
1 Collective Brutality
2 Diabolic Edict
2 Kolaghan's Command
3 Lingering Souls

Lands (19)
1 Arid Mesa
3 Badlands
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Marsh Flats
2 Mountain
1 Plateau
1 Scrubland
3 Swamp

Sideboard (15)
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Pithing Needle
2 Pyroblast
3 Surgical Extraction
1 Bitterblossom
2 Hymn to Tourach
1 Marsh Casualties
2 Blood Moon
2 Wear // Tear

W S&S
W Elves
L Goblins
W Eureka Tell
W Eureka Tell (including therapying myself 4 times in a turn in order to make a reveler big enough to one-shot them when they had a leyline of sanctity out)

Hymn is so stupidly good. I don't find myself ever using Scourge so I think that may become a Hymn. Entomb is clutch though. Maybe I'll board the scourge.

Goblins has been real tough though my opponent had T1 lackey both games in this league.

[maharis]

L UB Shadow
W UR Delver
L G Post
W Miracles
W Grixis Delver

Bedlam Reveler is nuts.

4 Bedlam Reveler
4 Arclight Phoenix
3 Young Pyromancer

2 Fatal Push
2 Entomb
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
1 Collective Brutality
4 Cabal Therapy
2 Hymn to Tourach
2 Kolaghan's Command
3 Lingering Souls
4 Faithless Looting
2 Diabolic Edict
3 Thoughtseize
4 Lightning Bolt

3 Badlands
2 Mountain
4 Bloodstained Mire
1 Scrubland
3 Swamp
1 Arid Mesa
4 Marsh Flats
1 Plateau

1 Engineered Explosives
1 Scourge of Nel Toth
2 Pyroblast
1 Marsh Casualties
2 Blood Moon
1 Pithing Needle
1 Scald
1 Engineered Plague
2 Wear/Tear
3 Surgical Extraction

[GraceandSword]

It prob isn't any good, but I was thinking about taking a b/r reanimator list and subbing out 12 for 4x Arclight Phoenix, 4x Buried alive, 4x Mausoleum Secrets. I am sure you wind up with a worse B/R reani list. I'll just put this out there in case it can inspire anyone to greatness.

[mistercakes]

It prob isn't any good, but I was thinking about taking a b/r reanimator list and subbing out 12 for 4x Arclight Phoenix, 4x Buried alive, 4x Mausoleum Secrets. I am sure you wind up with a worse B/R reani list. I'll just put this out there in case it can inspire anyone to greatness.


if you do tinker around with buried alive, it's also fun to have at least 1 narcomoeba and X prized amalgam. this way you can get 7 power on the board for 2B.

[maharis]

L 4c loam
W UB shadow
L storm
W D&T
W miracles

I think this deck is powerful enough to compete, but consistency is a struggle. Storm in particular revolves around drawing some very specific cards in order. And, it’s not horizontally good against the, shall we say, wonkier decks of the format.

[Megadeus]

It struggles against the random stuff? Yeah storm probably you just need to discard plus get fast clockclock and pray

[maharis]

Yeah for a while I was hitting leagues where it’s like G post, antiquities war, goblins, elves and I’d be lucky to win a round. But the deck feels really strong vs the Grixis/miracles decks, and with good draws can beat the popular combo decks.

I don’t really know what that adds up to, whether it’s worth playing and hope to hit an expected” run of decks, or shelve because in Legacy you have to expect the unexpected.

[Megadeus]

Yeah for a while I was hitting leagues where it’s like G post, antiquities war, goblins, elves and I’d be lucky to win a round. But the deck feels really strong vs the Grixis/miracles decks, and with good draws can beat the popular combo decks.

I don’t really know what that adds up to, whether it’s worth playing and hope to hit an expected” run of decks, or shelve because in Legacy you have to expect the unexpected.

Why did it feel like it struggled against the random stuff? Is itit something that is fixable?

[Laser Brains]

L UB Shadow
W UR Delver
L G Post
W Miracles
W Grixis Delver

Bedlam Reveler is nuts.

4 Bedlam Reveler
4 Arclight Phoenix
3 Young Pyromancer

2 Fatal Push
2 Entomb
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
1 Collective Brutality
4 Cabal Therapy
2 Hymn to Tourach
2 Kolaghan's Command
3 Lingering Souls
4 Faithless Looting
2 Diabolic Edict
3 Thoughtseize
4 Lightning Bolt

3 Badlands
2 Mountain
4 Bloodstained Mire
1 Scrubland
3 Swamp
1 Arid Mesa
4 Marsh Flats
1 Plateau

1 Engineered Explosives
1 Scourge of Nel Toth
2 Pyroblast
1 Marsh Casualties
2 Blood Moon
1 Pithing Needle
1 Scald
1 Engineered Plague
2 Wear/Tear
3 Surgical Extraction

I think 2-3 Smallpox possibly in the Diabolic Edict slot would be a nice fit. It forces you to discard good stuff you want in the graveyard ie Lingering Souls and Arclight and when you are forced to sac shit Pyromancer creates a token to sac.

[maharis]

Why did it feel like it struggled against the random stuff? Is itit something that is fixable?

Possibly? It’s basically the go-wide stuff like Goblins, Elves, Sai tokens, or the way over the top stuff like post/Depths.

Blood Moon was ineffective because of map->forest->grip, or it just gets thoughtseized by Depths decks.

I varied my sweeper effects a bit to help vs Goblins/Elves while still having game vs. D&T/pyro/TNN. In particular I think E plague isn’t good, should just go to 2 EE.

So finding some alternatives to the Moon slot and going more EE is the next thing to test.



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[maharis]

Update: Cannot beat the card Dark Depths. Moon never seems to work. Not sure what to try next.

[ReAnimator]

Update: Cannot beat the card Dark Depths. Moon never seems to work. Not sure what to try next.

Alpine Moon's can be a consideration, as it's only one to cast it can fit more easily into you plan of playing 3 spells, and also running out multiples is fine.

[maharis]

Alpine Moon's can be a consideration, as it's only one to cast it can fit more easily into you plan of playing 3 spells, and also running out multiples is fine.

Yeah, i actually did have one in my sb in the last league and just didn't draw it. My thinking was that it can beat a thoughtseize down but you're right that it also has phoenix synergy. I have to rework the SB for some the harder MUs. Scourge is maindeck or not, i've boarded it in but it's never relevant.

Maybe:

3 Surgical Extraction
2 Alpine Moon
2 Pithing Needle
2 Engineered Explosives
2 Wear/Tear
2 Pyroblast
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
1 Marsh Casualties

[maharis]

I want to try it, but have paused work on this for a while while I try to test viable options for Eternal Weekend.

Unfortunately, as long as Griselbrand is legal in Legacy, it will be very hard for any GY deck to breathe. Too much splash hate without the big payoff of getting GB into play when you beat the hate.

[GoblinSmashmaster]

True. If you can't beat em, join em?

Turns out this is also 3 spells off 2 mana sources (turn 1 or 2):
Dark Ritual, Buried Alive, Reanimate

Arclight Griselbrand


//Mana Sources: 17
4 Lotus Petal
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Marsh Flats
2 Swamp
2 Badlands
1 Scrubland

//Creatures: 10
4 Griselbrand
4 Arclight Phoenix
1 Sire of Insanity
1 Tidespout Tyrant

//Instants and Sorceries: 34
4 Unmask
4 Dark Ritual
4 Entomb
4 Thoughtseize
4 Faithless Looting
4 Gamble
4 Reanimate
3 Exhume
3 Buried Alive

//Sideboard:
3 Surgical Extraction
4 Wear // Tear
2 Abrade
1 Pithing Needle
1 Blazing Archon
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
3 Silence


Once you draw extra cards and discard, it's not hard to chain 3 spells again.

Phoenix and Buried Alive make this deck higher variance than BR Reanimator. Gamble smooths some of that out, at the cost of randomly hosing you sometimes. I have no delusions this is better than Reanimator, but it could be fun and decent enough to win games.

What's great is that even if the Griselbrand plan fails (e.g. countermagic on Reanimate, Karakas), Phoenixes will come out swinging. Going Buried Alive for 1 Griselbrand and 2 Phoenix means that a single Surgical, StP, Edict, or Karakas doesn't completely hose you.

[Barook]

If you're already in red, why don't you run Manamorphose? It's color fixing and a free spell to boot.

[Anubis647]

Just found this recently and thought I'd share my list. I started out trying to make a Young Pyro port into Legacy and only recently added Arclight Phoenix. I got in some testing against Death and Taxes recently before adding in the Phoenixes... The deck feels fun, but of course I'd need a ton of testing to decide whether it's good. I'm interested to hear if other people are still testing the deck. Also interested in thoughts on Gut Shot as an enabler and for turn 0/1 removal for Delver, Mom, Hierarch, etc.

Mardu Pyromancer:

Maindeck (60)
3 Young Pyromancer
4 Arclight Phoenix
4 Bedlam Reveler
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Faithless Looting
2 Fatal Push
3 Gut Shot
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Thoughtseize
3 Hymn to Tourach
2 Kolaghan's Command
3 Lingering Souls
1 Arid Mesa
3 Badlands
4 Bloodstained Mire
1 Karakas
4 Marsh Flats
2 Mountain
1 Plateau
1 Scrubland
3 Swamp

Sideboard (15)
2 Containment Priest
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
3 Pyroblast
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Diabolic Edict
2 Wear // Tear
2 Zealous Persecution
2 Bitterblossom

[Whitefaces]

I’ve been working on a Grixis version and was thinking about starting a new thread but I stumbled upon this so figured I’d share where it’s going here instead. If you’d prefer to keep this limited to non-blue I’m happy to start another though, just let me know! Blue is so powerful in this kind of deck, it’s hard not to play it. Reading over it you guys have had the same ideas as me, it’s a pretty sweet shell.

The only testing I’ve got in so far has been at my LGS last night where it 4-0d, which while nice doesn’t mean a whole lot I know, I’ll be playing some leagues from tonight. It feels like it’s doing something more powerful than just ‘cute’ though. I was trying some more all in versions on MTGO the day before too, with LED and Infernal Tutors, but I think the real power behind the ‘combo’ (Buried Alive) is that it’s a powerful play off not that many resources. The list started with a bunch of cool Entomb targets as well like Deep Analysis, Lingering Souls, Creeping Chill etc but in the end I think you just want consistency. There were some Bloodghasts too to make the second Buried Alive not dead, but the first is so powerful I think it’s unnecessary. And between Looting and Brainstorm you can find a use for them.

4 Young Pyromancer
4 Arclight Phoenix
1 Liliana, the Last Hope

4 Dark Ritual
3 Buried Alive
2 Entomb
4 Faithless Looting
4 Ponder
4 Brainstorm
4 Thoughtseize
4 Cabal Therapy
2 Manamorphose
2 Lightning Bolt

3 Underground Sea
2 Badlands
2 Volcanic Island
1 Island
1 Swamp
4 Polluted Delta
3 Scalding Tarn
2 Bloodstained Mire

Sb
2 Flusterstorm
2 Pyroblast
1 Vendilion Clique
3 True-Name Nemesis
2 Abrade
1 Null Rod
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
3 Surgical Extraction

Not sure on the Liliana or the Bolts in the main currently. The Liliana was a 4th Buried Alive, but due to diminishing returns and all the cantrips I think 3 is alright, Liliana is another nice Ritual play. The Bolts were Ghasts which seemed bad quite quickly, it finishes games after two attacks with phoenixes from Buried Alive to allow T3 kills in theory, Collective Brutality is another option in that slot but I think the deck wants to maximise its 1cmc spells to triggers phoenixes easier.

Sideboard I’m still really not sure, it’s quite generic except the pile of Derp-Name Nemesis as a way to fight GY hate and surgical etc. Mostly for control and midrange.

[Whitefaces]

Got some more reps in with 3 leagues online, I streamed them too if anyone is interested at twitch.tv/whitefaces. The vods are there, and I’ll probably be streaming more of it next week.

From the list posted above I’ve cut the Manamorphoses and the maindeck Liliana. Morphoses felt pretty bad, they were often sided out and made cantrip/discard sequencing hard. They also don’t really allow for any more busted draws. You’re not making Phoenixes T1 off it, and T2 it’s only going to be relevant for spell count if you have both Looting and Phoenix to discard to it. If you’re going off with a ritual you have the mana for a discard spell/cantrip to be the third. Liliana was over a Buried Alive as mentioned before to help with diminishing returns, but the first Buried is so powerful it’s worth it to play 4 I’ve found. Maximise your decks ceiling and nut draws etc.

Results so far for a combined 15-4

LgS as mentioned in the last post
2-0 Miracles
2-0 Infect
2-1 Slow Depths
2-1 High Tide

1-2 Uw Merfolk
2-0 Miracles
2-1 Grixis Delver
2-1 UB Leyline Helm
2-0 Junk Nic Fit

2-0 RUG Food Chain
2-0 Doomsday
0-2 BR Reanimator
0-2 UW Delverblade
2-1 BR Reanimator

2-1 DNT
2-1 UW Blade
2-1 UR Delver
0-2 Depths
2-1 UW Rip Helm (opp punted a win though)

4 Young Pyromancer
4 Arclight Phoenix
4 Ponder
4 Brainstorm
4 Faithless Looting
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Thoughtseize
4 Dark Ritual
4 Buried Alive
2 Entomb
3 Underground Sea
2 Badlands
2 Volcanic Island
3 Scalding Tarn
4 Polluted Delta
2 Bloodstained Mire
1 Swamp
1 Island

Sb:
3 Surgical Extraction
2 Abrade
2 Flusterstorm
2 Pyroblast
2 Echoing Truth
2 Liliana, the Last Hope
2 True-Name Nemesis

The sideboard is still a bit up in the air. While Surgical is nice to have max spell count for Phoenixes and Pyromancers, since we have very little countermagic to protect them from TS/Therapy/Unmask vs Reanimator they could be better as Leylines or Tormod’s Crypts. In the last league played they were Crypts but we didn’t vs Reanimator. Gurmag Angler and Thing in the Ice have also been good suggestions, might try Gurmags over the Entombs in the main and Things over the TNNs in the sideboard.

[maharis]

Thanks Callum, I’ll take a look because the Dega version has kind of petered out with the rise of so many combo decks. A little frustrating that this just becomes another Grixis shell but what can you do.

Couple questions:

You don’t think Force is necessary in SB? Fluster is great, but still whiffs on some stuff....

Considered entomb/intuition as alternatives to Buried Alive?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[maharis]

lol my first game with the grixis deck was a T3 win vs miracles on the draw

[Whitefaces]

Thanks Callum, I’ll take a look because the Dega version has kind of petered out with the rise of so many combo decks. A little frustrating that this just becomes another Grixis shell but what can you do.

Couple questions:

You don’t think Force is necessary in SB? Fluster is great, but still whiffs on some stuff....

Considered entomb/intuition as alternatives to Buried Alive?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yeah, sorry it's gone blue, but really when you're trying to chain spells together that are also an A+B synergy there's nothing better than Brainstorm and friends.

Force could def be worth playing, I've been meaning to try 2 or 3 in the sideboard, they could replace Flusters like you suggest. In fact Fluster hasn't been doing that much, mostly been live vs SnS and every other combo deck is using discard on you first.

One concern is this deck could really suffer from people knowing the list and knowing there's barely any countermagic, it's fair that most people playing vs this would expect at least Force so far and probably cantrip into discard before going off. When that happens I'm planning to change things up at least to see if the theory is true. I didn't post about it in this thread, but I was streaming and playing irl with 2-3 Dazes in the main. They can be backbreaking when you're coupling them with such a fast clock and the heavy discard package, but they come with their major downsides too. Reactive cards can be pretty awful when you're wanting proactive things for YP and Phoenixes. But on a similar note of people knowing the list, if it does get out and become more known Daze gains loads of power.

I tried Entomb a bunch when first playing the deck. It's fine, nice thing to play on T3 after some discard and cantrips, it's basically a flipped hasty Delver for B which is decent, I also Entombed for a Therapy a fair amount of times. But it was also always one of the first cuts, you're expecting people to board in some GY hate vs you, and with how low power level it is vs Buried Alive in the context of the deck it just wasn't doing enough to warrant a MD slot that got sided out constantly. Ofc you could play cool stuff like Lingering Souls, Deep Analysis, Creeping Chill etc, but they're so bad to draw. Kind of back to the reasoning to play blue cards, consistency is not to be underrated and playing cute 1-ofs really hampers that.

I didn't try Intuition but a lot of people have suggested it. I really don't see it in the deck though, most importantly because you can't cast it off Dark Ritual, but also it only fetches 2 Phoenixes to put into play, so you'd then want things like Faithless Looting (which was pretty bad in the deck in the end), and god forbid Careful Study, to finish the Intuition off. But really the Ritual point is most important, I saw you've played the deck some amount from Twitter (that is you, right?), the line of T2 Cantrip into missing combo piece comes up a large amount of the time, it's integral to the deck I think. At the end of the day the combo is 'only' putting 3 Delvers into play. Why it's so effective is because you're doing this either very early in the game before the opponent can set up shop and find the answers, or after you've discard their hand. I don't see Intuition doing either better than Buried Alive.


lol my first game with the grixis deck was a T3 win vs miracles on the draw

Miracles has felt like a slaughter so far. Small sample size, but currently 5-0 in matches in leagues online. Sometimes ya just Phoenix people!

I think the deck could pick up some traction too, I really believe there's something here, so I might start a new thread and make a small primer tomorrow.

[youngphx]

Yeah, sorry it's gone blue, but really when you're trying to chain spells together that are also an A+B synergy there's nothing better than Brainstorm and friends.

Force could def be worth playing, I've been meaning to try 2 or 3 in the sideboard, they could replace Flusters like you suggest. In fact Fluster hasn't been doing that much, mostly been live vs SnS and every other combo deck is using discard on you first.

One concern is this deck could really suffer from people knowing the list and knowing there's barely any countermagic, it's fair that most people playing vs this would expect at least Force so far and probably cantrip into discard before going off. When that happens I'm planning to change things up at least to see if the theory is true. I didn't post about it in this thread, but I was streaming and playing irl with 2-3 Dazes in the main. They can be backbreaking when you're coupling them with such a fast clock and the heavy discard package, but they come with their major downsides too. Reactive cards can be pretty awful when you're wanting proactive things for YP and Phoenixes. But on a similar note of people knowing the list, if it does get out and become more known Daze gains loads of power.

I tried Entomb a bunch when first playing the deck. It's fine, nice thing to play on T3 after some discard and cantrips, it's basically a flipped hasty Delver for B which is decent, I also Entombed for a Therapy a fair amount of times. But it was also always one of the first cuts, you're expecting people to board in some GY hate vs you, and with how low power level it is vs Buried Alive in the context of the deck it just wasn't doing enough to warrant a MD slot that got sided out constantly. Ofc you could play cool stuff like Lingering Souls, Deep Analysis, Creeping Chill etc, but they're so bad to draw. Kind of back to the reasoning to play blue cards, consistency is not to be underrated and playing cute 1-ofs really hampers that.

I didn't try Intuition but a lot of people have suggested it. I really don't see it in the deck though, most importantly because you can't cast it off Dark Ritual, but also it only fetches 2 Phoenixes to put into play, so you'd then want things like Faithless Looting (which was pretty bad in the deck in the end), and god forbid Careful Study, to finish the Intuition off. But really the Ritual point is most important, I saw you've played the deck some amount from Twitter (that is you, right?), the line of T2 Cantrip into missing combo piece comes up a large amount of the time, it's integral to the deck I think. At the end of the day the combo is 'only' putting 3 Delvers into play. Why it's so effective is because you're doing this either very early in the game before the opponent can set up shop and find the answers, or after you've discard their hand. I don't see Intuition doing either better than Buried Alive.



Miracles has felt like a slaughter so far. Small sample size, but currently 5-0 in matches in leagues online. Sometimes ya just Phoenix people!

I think the deck could pick up some traction too, I really believe there's something here, so I might start a new thread and make a small primer tomorrow.

Hi there! Looking into this deck as my first legacy deck. Curious to see if there have been any updates to it from testing or otherwise. Thanks for having this thread. The deck looks really fun

[Whitefaces]

Hi there! Looking into this deck as my first legacy deck. Curious to see if there have been any updates to it from testing or otherwise. Thanks for having this thread. The deck looks really fun

Hey. That's great, I've started another thread actually which you can find here - http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?32856-Buried-Phoenix