Ensnaring Bridge in the Antiquities War Deck

[kombatkiwi]

ARK4N (5TH PLACE)
LEGACY CHALLENGE #11681662 ON 11/04/2018

Planeswalker (5)
4 Karn, Scion of Urza
1 Tezzeret, Artifice Master
Creature (7)
4 Baleful Strix
3 Walking Ballista
Sorcery (4)
4 Thoughtcast
Instant (3)
3 Force of Will
Artifact (28)
4 Darksteel Citadel
4 Seat of the Synod
4 Vault of Whispers
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Dimir Signet
1 Engineered Explosives
2 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Mox Opal
2 Urza's Bauble
Enchantment (5)
1 Artificer's Intuition
4 The Antiquities War
Land (8)
4 Ancient Tomb
2 Glimmervoid
1 Inventors' Fair
1 Island
60 Cards
Sideboard (15)
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Force of Will
2 Flusterstorm
4 Leyline of the Void
2 Padeem, Consul of Innovation
2 Sorcerous Spyglass
1 Tormod's Crypt
2 Toxic Deluge

Moon-Prison decks have often played Ensnaring Bridge because their gameplan typically causes them to play empty-handed and they have wincons that ignore it like Rabblemaster or Chandra

In this deck it seems to make far less sense for a number of reasons
1) A lot of your wincons seem to involve attacking with big creatures (the 3rd stage of Antiquities War or Karn tokens)
2) The deck has a reasonable amount of card draw with 4 Thoughtcast, Karn, AQ War, Tezzeret, (but this can probably be played around)
3) The deck wants to / needs to hold cards in hand on the opponent's turn because it's playing FoW

Whats the deal here?
a) Once your opponent is under bridge they can't do anything and you can kill them at your leisure with Tezz thopters or Ballista activations
b) Against non-Marit non-Reanimator non-SNT decks you aren't supposed to cast Bridge
c) Something else?

Just wondering what's the general thought process / play pattern for this card from anyone who's played the deck because it seems like a bit of an awkward fit
[Not sure about source etiquette wrt where is the best place to ask this, doesn't seem to match most of the lists in the Tezz thread, do I make a thread in developmental just for this? W/e]

[pettdan]

I didn't play it but I'll comment anyway. I think you generally covered the strengths and dissynergies around this card in the deck, maybe I can add some point but mostly evaluate the strategic role of the bridges (I can hope). There isn't a whole lot of removal in the deck, nor counterspells or discard (or wastelands), so it's weak to aggressive creature based strategies (well creature based win conditions) such as Eldrazi, Delver, Sneak and Show and including Marit Lage-focused decks. Bridge hedges against all of that, and you can win behind a bridge while those decks probably can't. Even with a FoW or two in hand you can hide behind bridge vs these decks. Furthermore both AW, Karn and Thoughtcast allow you to draw to 5 cards getting through with AW ultimate should you want to, but more likely in matchups where AW is great you won't cast Bridge.

[FTW]

Ensnaring Bridge can be used in more than one way.

Some prison decks use it to form a lock while you have 0 cards in hand, stopping all creatures on both sides from attacking. However, even though it's often played that way, the card does not read "As long as you have no cards in hand, creatures cannot attack."

Another very valid way to play Bridge is to keep 1-2 cards in hand so your weenies can attack but the opponent's 3/3s can't. If your 1/1s are evasive, this can lead to a win.

Finally, you can play Bridge with a near-full grip just to stop the biggest fatties: 15/15s, 7/7 lifelinks, 20/20 indestructibles, 5/5 Anglers, big Goyfs. You can go up to 5 cards in draw step, attack with 5/5s, then play a land and a spell, going down to 3 cards to stop opponent from attacking. You can also stay on 1-2 cards while controlling the game, then drop Antiquities War, go up 2 cards per turn, and have 5 cards in hand the turn you want to attack with 5/5s.

The card can be used in any of these three roles, depending on the opponent. I don't play this deck, but it's not hard to see how you can adapt playstyle around the MU to make Bridge useful. If it's not useful, board it out G2 and G3.

[Captain Hammer]

Lol, I wondered the exact same thing when I kept seeing this list top 8 multiple tourneys OP.

The deck looks sweet though. This and the monoblue painter list prove that Ant War is an amazing win condition.

I am certain that an optimized/refined combination of the two decks borrowing elements from the old Tezzerator decks will earn a place in the DTB section. Ant War is absurdly powerful.

[kombatkiwi]

Needs 1 Claws of Gix
- Zero-mana artifact to help play Chalice on turn 1 off Mox Opal and discount Thoughtcast
- Eat your own AQ War before it gets 3 counters so that your Miracles opponent can't obliterate your entire board by floating Terminus
- Eat your own Bridge so that you can attack
- Gain some life

edit:
Bonus meme: if your opponent proliferates your chalice up to 2 you can eat it

[H]

There is also Trading Post, which can't sacrifice Enchantments, but does have a bit more synergy with the rest of the deck. Of course it also cost 4 mana plus one to activate as well.

[Captain Hammer]

If we are talking 0 mana artifacts for Opal, Tormod’s Crypt and Lotus Petal seem like easy inclusions.

[Captain Hammer]

I can’t think of a single reason to run Artificer’s Intuition in this list instead of Trinket Mage or Fabricate or Intuition. Artficer’s intuiton is card disadvantage since it requires you to discard artifacts, typically more powerful artifacts to do what Trinket Mage or Fabricate or Intuition does for free. Fabricate can even grab Ensnaring Bridge in a pinch and Intuiton can grab Karn or FoW or The Antiquities War.

[kombatkiwi]

I can’t think of a single reason to run Artificer’s Intuition in this list instead of Trinket Mage or Fabricate or Intuition. Artficer’s intuiton is card disadvantage since it requires you to discard artifacts, typically more powerful artifacts to do what Trinket Mage or Fabricate or Intuition does for free. Fabricate can even grab Ensnaring Bridge in a pinch and Intuiton can grab Karn or FoW or The Antiquities War.

I think I agree with this
I'm also not sure if the 5 mana tezzeret is better than AOB

[Captain Hammer]

What is AOB?

[pettdan]

He's referring to Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas.

A nice aspect of Artificer's Intuition is that there are, when I counted yesterday I think, 19 artifact mana sources in the deck. So late game when you draw these and don't need them, they can be turned into something useful. Still it seems a bit loose.

[Captain Hammer]

Cool. Thanks.

Thirst for Knowledge seems like a better way to do that. An ancestral recall with downside of discarding an extra artifact land or Mox is awesome late game.

[kombatkiwi]

He's referring to Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas.

A nice aspect of Artificer's Intuition is that there are, when I counted yesterday I think, 19 artifact mana sources in the deck. So late game when you draw these and don't need them, they can be turned into something useful. Still it seems a bit loose.

This is true and is something I probably hadn't given enough consideration towards.
Being able to upgrade extra lands when you are flooded or redundant opals /chalices is probably worth having 1 artificer's intuition even if you aren't heavily building around 1 drop tutor targets. (chalice / ballista / EE is probably a good enough spread regardless, even bauble to cycle if you're trying to dig for Bridge or whatever)

[Captain Hammer]

I really think The Abyss would work better than Ensnaring Bridge in this list, but isn't played for budget reasons (The Abyss is a a crazy pricy card).

What do you guys think? I actually happen to have 2 Abyss and am wondering if I should play them in here instead of Bridge.

[johncarvalho]

I proxied this deck last week to try it out and it is amazing! From the little testing I made I think the deck is missing a Tezzeret, AoB to be able to win through an ensnaring bridge as well, still not sure what to replace for it... With the abyss you already cover this problem, its probably worth trying!

Maybe even Claws of Gix might be good (to blow up the bridge), or some extra engineered explosives. With explosives you can blow up the bridge before the AntWar attack (happened to me on a couple of matches).

Artificers Intuition would be good to find this missing piece to solve a bridge problem, or as an extra 5th copy of a chalice of the void. Also you can pitch bridge for something you need on game 1 vs decks that bridge is useless.

[H]

I really think The Abyss would work better than Ensnaring Bridge in this list, but isn't played for budget reasons (The Abyss is a a crazy pricy card).

What do you guys think? I actually happen to have 2 Abyss and am wondering if I should play them in here instead of Bridge.

Maybe. But Bridge helps in places The Abyss really doesn't, like versus Sneak and Show. I mean, you might catch them if they just try to Show and Tell, but you are screwed if they Sneak Attack. Of course there are places where The Abyss is great, like powering it out versus decks that want to beat you down with creatures. But once you are really behind, Bridge is more plausible to save you than The Abyss is.

[compacta_d]

Spreading the cost of a card between turns is not the same as spending all of that cost in 1 turn.

that two mana goes into the ballista this card is likely tutoring for, which yes, can matter very much early game or if short on lands.

It also turns any redundant artifact INTO a land for U.

[kombatkiwi]

I really think The Abyss would work better than Ensnaring Bridge in this list, but isn't played for budget reasons (The Abyss is a a crazy pricy card).

What do you guys think? I actually happen to have 2 Abyss and am wondering if I should play them in here instead of Bridge.
The list in the OP is lifted from challenge results on MTGO, where The Abyss is $2, so budget constraints are not the reason it isn't included. (I have no idea if the original deckbuilder considered it or not).
The Abyss is much worse vs Sneak Attack and it's also possible for decks like Eldrazi and Elves to play through it (or have you dead on board by the time that you cast it). It doesn't stop TNN either.
It's also not an Artifact so you can't find it with Antiquities War or Inventor's Fair.


With explosives you can blow up the bridge before the AntWar attack (happened to me on a couple of matches).
True, the deck has enough rainbow mana sources and no other 3-mana cards that would get destroyed by this

[tired_papasmurf]

I don't understand why you would want to get rid of the Ensnaring Bridge in the deck. Abyss doesn't stop the opponent from killing you the turn after you play it, Bridge does. Bridge can be found with Antiquities War when you're desperately digging for it. If you're worried about dis-synergies with Antiquities War, look at the three main situations involving the two:

1. Bridge is in play, you're hellbent, and your opponent has some smol bois threatening lethal (Death+Taxes, Empty the Warrens, GW, Elves, etc). You topdeck AW. In this case, you use War to dig for Explosives/Ballista/etc since your opponent probably had enough creatures to chump the AW Ult anyway. Bridge is a good card cause it's keeping you alive.

2. Bridge is in play and your opponent has a big beefy boi in play (Gris/Emmy/Marit) that can't attack. You topdeck AW. In this case, you've hopefully been sandbagging at least one card in your hand, because when you play AW you'll get at least 4 more cards by the time it pops (assuming you don't wiff, also not taking into account Planeswalkers/Thoughtcast). If you still didn't have enough 5/5's to alpha strike for the win, AW gets you more artifacts for the next AW while Bridge buys you all the time in the world. Bridge is a good card here.

3. Your opponent doesn't use creatures. In that case just don't play Bridge/discard to artificers intuition. Bridge is just okay here.

The only awkward things about Bridge is if you're looking for one more artifact to get on the field before AW pops for a full alpha, but then replacing it with Abyss wouldn't solve that issue.

[Captain Hammer]

The newest addition to the deck... https://i.redd.it/wcdfm98ixgp21.png

[kombatkiwi]

6 Mana is way too much and the affinity effect doesn't really do anything once you already have 6 mana
The plus ability is strong but overall this card seems worse than both Artifice Master and Agent of Bolas

The real new War of the Spark spoiler for this deck so far is the new Karn (imo)

Karn, the Great Creator {4}
Activated abilities of artifacts your opponent controls cannot be activated
+1 Until your next turn, up to 1 target noncreature artifact becomes an artifact creature with power and toughness equal to its converted mana cost
-2 You may choose an artifact card you own from outside the game or in exile, reveal it and add it to your hand
Starting Loyalty: 5

While the 'animate artifact' ability is not as good at attacking as the DOM Karn ability to make constructs or AOB making artifacts 5/5, it does give you the option to destroy your opponent's 0 cmc artifacts (Chrome Mox, LED, Mox Diamond, etc). Sadly this is not very good because all of these cards are already disabled by the passive. The main upside to this card is the wish effect. Unfortunately it is not like Mastermind's Acquisition also letting you search your library, but there are plenty of good SB options like Ensnaring Bridge and Trinisphere. The other funny thing that I saw someone suggest on discord is that you can add Mycosynth Lattice to your hand from your SB which is like an I-win button when combined with the asymmetric Null Rod passive

Edit: oops I lost track of where I was and basically posted this in 2 threads by accident
I think discussion of the Awar deck should just move to the Tez thread

[FTW]

I don't understand why you would want to get rid of the Ensnaring Bridge in the deck. Abyss doesn't stop the opponent from killing you the turn after you play it, Bridge does. Bridge can be found with Antiquities War when you're desperately digging for it. If you're worried about dis-synergies with Antiquities War, look at the three main situations involving the two:

1. Bridge is in play, you're hellbent, and your opponent has some smol bois threatening lethal (Death+Taxes, Empty the Warrens, GW, Elves, etc). You topdeck AW. In this case, you use War to dig for Explosives/Ballista/etc since your opponent probably had enough creatures to chump the AW Ult anyway. Bridge is a good card cause it's keeping you alive.

2. Bridge is in play and your opponent has a big beefy boi in play (Gris/Emmy/Marit) that can't attack. You topdeck AW. In this case, you've hopefully been sandbagging at least one card in your hand, because when you play AW you'll get at least 4 more cards by the time it pops (assuming you don't wiff, also not taking into account Planeswalkers/Thoughtcast). If you still didn't have enough 5/5's to alpha strike for the win, AW gets you more artifacts for the next AW while Bridge buys you all the time in the world. Bridge is a good card here.

3. Your opponent doesn't use creatures. In that case just don't play Bridge/discard to artificers intuition. Bridge is just okay here.

The only awkward things about Bridge is if you're looking for one more artifact to get on the field before AW pops for a full alpha, but then replacing it with Abyss wouldn't solve that issue.

Yeah I agree with all your points. I don't get why people think Bridge is bad here. It's an artifact that solves many problems none of the other cards can, and this deck can easily win through Bridge as long as you manage your hand size wisely for the matchup. Sure sometimes it can backfire through disruption, but it deals with so many problems and buys time to dig into things. The main complaints seem to be "I can't figure out how to win through my Bridge because I'm bad at Magic, therefore the card must be bad".

Tezz looks really bad at 6 mana in Legacy. Even in Modern it looks too slow.

Karn searching for a 1-of SB Mycosynth Lattice or some other singleton threat could be a very real win condition for this deck.

[frogger42]

Here's a really great list:
https://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=21581&d=344887&f=LE

This is a list that I rocked a month or two ago, kind of relying on memory:

4 Mox Opal
4 Lotus Petal
4 Seat of the Synod
2 Island
4 Darksteel Citadel
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors

4 Chalice of the Void
4 Trophy Mage
4 Master of Etherium
4 Karn, Scion of Urza
4 Force of Will
3 The Antiquities War
4 Thoughtcast
3 Trinket Mage (I think)
4 Walking Ballista


I sense that with TAW you want to smash very very quickly - hence Karn and Master of Etherium. I discounted Master as a dumb beater, but it seriously closes games in a few turns - it's close to another TAW except 1 mana less and dodges Spell Pierce.

Changes I'd make - 14 blue sources is really low. I'd probably cut a Trinket Mage or two from this list for 2 Chrome Mox. It's terrible with Force, but it sticks around for Opal, Thoughtcast, and TAW / Karn tokens. So dropping it as a dead Mox should be fine. I think I had a Sword of Fire and Ice in here, specifically for True Name. (SB included 2 Tormod's Crypt, Sword of Light and Shadow, Faerie Macabres, and idk what else).

I played this for 2 four-round SCG side events. I strangely mostly faced Chalice decks - about 4 of 8 decks I played ran Chalice. Not caring about Chalice and holding your Force for their only threat is beastly. I tied one match and lost one match, DnT just mana-denied me and I think I played 3 spells the whole match. So the manabase definitely needs some tinkering.

I probably won't play this again because of new Karn and a shaky manabase, but I figure I'd share. I'm definitely not a fan of UU or especially UB spells in the deck. It really messes up what you want to do with the manabase.

EDIT: I'm not a fan of Bridge at all. It shuts down your most powerful cards, TAW and Karn/Master if you run them (definitely you should run Karn).

[johncarvalho]

I played that list from mtgtop8 yesterday on a 3 round tournament, I loved this version (even thou I lost 2 of the matches out of 3, but was probably my mistake :tongue:), more than the UB version. You can attack from more angles with the little "affinity" package of cranial plating/master of etherium/skirge.

The only thing I have changed from that list was replacing the explosives for Padeem, I feel he is really necessary in this archetype, its really strong.

match 1 = 2x0 vs goblins
the deck felt resilient, but my opponent was mana flooded on both games, and I believe this matchup is quite bad, as goblins have trashmaster, cratermaker, wasteland and rishadan. ornithopter and skirge are quite good at blocking a turn 1 lackey thou.

match 2 = 0x2 vs burn
I ALWAYS get paired with this guy, its crazy, and I cant seem to beat him. Burn is so consistent now with light up the stage, I need strong sideboarding vs this, maybe up the trinisphere count or even a couple of Chills, im still not sure. He removes my skirges easily and PoP deals a ton of damage.

match 3 = 0x2 vs reanimator
He conceded as he was 0-2 and we played for fun. I kept bad starting hands on both games, but I feel the deck is well prepared to handle combo with fow/chalice/fluster and gravehate.

[Hanni]

Here's a really great list:
https://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=21581&d=344887&f=LE

This is a list that I rocked a month or two ago, kind of relying on memory:

4 Mox Opal
4 Lotus Petal
4 Seat of the Synod
2 Island
4 Darksteel Citadel
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors

4 Chalice of the Void
4 Trophy Mage
4 Master of Etherium
4 Karn, Scion of Urza
4 Force of Will
3 The Antiquities War
4 Thoughtcast
3 Trinket Mage (I think)
4 Walking Ballista


I sense that with TAW you want to smash very very quickly - hence Karn and Master of Etherium. I discounted Master as a dumb beater, but it seriously closes games in a few turns - it's close to another TAW except 1 mana less and dodges Spell Pierce.

Changes I'd make - 14 blue sources is really low. I'd probably cut a Trinket Mage or two from this list for 2 Chrome Mox. It's terrible with Force, but it sticks around for Opal, Thoughtcast, and TAW / Karn tokens. So dropping it as a dead Mox should be fine. I think I had a Sword of Fire and Ice in here, specifically for True Name. (SB included 2 Tormod's Crypt, Sword of Light and Shadow, Faerie Macabres, and idk what else).

I played this for 2 four-round SCG side events. I strangely mostly faced Chalice decks - about 4 of 8 decks I played ran Chalice. Not caring about Chalice and holding your Force for their only threat is beastly. I tied one match and lost one match, DnT just mana-denied me and I think I played 3 spells the whole match. So the manabase definitely needs some tinkering.

I probably won't play this again because of new Karn and a shaky manabase, but I figure I'd share. I'm definitely not a fan of UU or especially UB spells in the deck. It really messes up what you want to do with the manabase.

EDIT: I'm not a fan of Bridge at all. It shuts down your most powerful cards, TAW and Karn/Master if you run them (definitely you should run Karn).

I like this approach quite a bit, but I'd personally drop the Mages (Trinket and Trophy) for Etherium Sculptor and Faerie Mechanist. Might be worse overall, but it definitely plays better with the artifact theme.

I'd also be extremely tempted to try and fit Vault Skirge for curve reasons (Opal and Thoughtcast), possibly also Steel Overseer too, although I have no idea how to fit them.